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        <font color="#ffffff" size="1">obywhcdzewjhfsarowrc ws lobtt r gc uv lf 
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From security@dotfcu.org  Tue Apr  1 05:05:36 2008
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<html>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr  1 11:24:19 2008
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From: Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com>
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Subject: Mainstage, Sooperlooper and The FCB
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--Apple-Mail-1--1038901453
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Hey Guys,
I have been experimenting with Mainstage as a Acoustic guitar rig. I  
have been using Sooperlooper for about 6 months with Ableton Live. But  
the possibility of Concert level effects and the graphic  
representation of controls is intriguing. Mainstage is buggy, but  
isn't everything? And Logic/Mainstage sounds so good.
The problem is this, when using the FCB to control Sooperlooper, I  
can't get the buttons to work the way I need to.
Example. To record a loop I press record. No problem. But If I press  
overdub instead of record to end the initial recording. The next time  
I press record, it is basically returning that control back to off  
position. It should already be in that state. In other words, by  
pushing any other button, the previously pressed button should be  
turned off.
I have tried changing the style of buttons in the inspector, but since  
Im using Note On/Off, there doesn't seem to be an alternate setting  
for Notes. Is the answer to use CC's"
Any thoughts or guidence would be appreciated. This seems to be last  
hurdle in reaching my goal for the week.
Thanks
C 
--Apple-Mail-1--1038901453
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=US-ASCII
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: =
'Lucida Grande'; line-height: 16px; ">Hey Guys,&nbsp;<br>I have been =
experimenting with Mainstage as a Acoustic guitar rig. I have been using =
Sooperlooper for about 6 months with Ableton Live. But the possibility =
of Concert level effects and the graphic representation of controls is =
intriguing. Mainstage is buggy, but isn't everything? And =
Logic/Mainstage sounds so good.&nbsp;<br>The problem is this, when using =
the FCB to control Sooperlooper, I can't get the buttons to work the way =
I need to.&nbsp;<br>Example. To record a loop I press record. No =
problem. But If I press overdub instead of record to end the initial =
recording. The next time I press record, it is basically returning that =
control back to off position. It should already be in that state. In =
other words, by pushing any other button, the previously pressed button =
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"text-decoration: =
underline;">should</span> be turned off.&nbsp;<br>I have tried changing =
the style of buttons in the inspector, but since Im using Note On/Off, =
there doesn't seem to be an alternate setting for Notes. Is the answer =
to use CC's"<br>Any thoughts or guidence would be appreciated. This =
seems to be last hurdle in reaching my goal for the =
week.&nbsp;<br>Thanks<br>C&nbsp;</span></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-1--1038901453--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr  1 13:49:48 2008
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Sorry to intrude like this - if anyone has time to answer a Mac OS 9  
question for me, please contact me ASAP off list.

Thanks

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr  1 20:02:24 2008
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Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 21:55:39 +0200
From: Matthias L. <numbernine@gmx.net>
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Subject: repeater manual
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dear repeater users,

I need to get the manual for the electrix repeater with 1.1 firmware.
But the website is down.

if anyone has a copy can you please send it to me.

many thanks,
Matthias L.



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr  1 20:08:08 2008
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Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 22:37:18 +0200
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: OT: transmitting music with no wires
References: <47EC1C76.3090809@unguitar.com> <BAY101-W46AF27F7AA2F2C10126B66BEFA0@phx.gbl>
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Oh Phil,
this is it !

thanks a lot !!!

luca
www.unguitar.com

phillip wilson wrote:

> one massivly cheap and fun solution i use is an FM transmitter , i got 
> mine off ebay from hong kong to the uk for about Ģ6 ($11ish) you just 
> put it in the headphone or line out socket of any audio device then 
> use any radio tuner (I use really cheap pound land ones connected to 
> amps) in all the other rooms, I find this great for partys, I can make 
> a playlist on my laptop in my bedroom then tune the 
> livingroom/kitchen/bathroom awaterproof radios into the transmitters 
> frequency and have the same music all over the house, Ive had some 
> really good feedback about that from guests.
> Phill MyOneManBand
>
> u, 27 Mar 2008 23:15:18 +0100
> > From: luca@unguitar.com
> > To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> > Subject: OT: transmitting music with no wires
> >
> > Hello dear guys,
> > this is sure an OT, but I am sure I can get some useful informations
> > from you.
> > I would like to have the music coming out from my living room hi-fi ( I
> > am an old man) transmitted to another set of loudspeakers in a 
> different
> > room.
> > There is something like that made for headphones and I was wondering if
> > a thing like this exists for a regular amp+loudspeaker system.
> >
> > thanks for you minutes,
> > luca
> > www.unguitar.com
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> A prize an hour, 24 hours a day. Try Big Snap now! 
> <http://www.bigsnapsearch.com%0A%20>
>
> __________ Informazione NOD32 2987 (20080331) __________
>
> Questo messaggio č stato controllato dal Sistema Antivirus NOD32
> http://www.nod32.it

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr  1 22:31:03 2008
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Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 18:31:00 -0400
From: "Jim Goodin" <jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: OT: transmitting music with no wires
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------=_Part_11240_29842887.1207089061001
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Luca - I'm not responding to your thread as I have no input to add however I
read it and was curious about your website name.  Your site is really sleek,
minimal and great use of text as design.

Jim Goodin
www.jimgoodinmusic.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com



On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 6:15 PM, Luca Formentini <luca@unguitar.com> wrote:

> Hello dear guys,
> this is sure an OT, but I am sure I can get some useful informations
> from you.
> I would like to have the music coming out from my living room hi-fi ( I
> am an old man) transmitted to another set of loudspeakers in a different
> room.
> There is something like that made for headphones and I was wondering if
> a thing like this exists for a regular amp+loudspeaker system.
>
> thanks for you minutes,
> luca
> www.unguitar.com
>
>


-- 
The Acoustic World Guitar of Jim Goodin - http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com
MySpace (solo) - http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic
Chinapainting -
http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com
Chinapainting on My Space -
http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com
The Jim Goodin label and home for 7 other creative souls -
http://www.woodandwiremusic.com
Jim Goodin uses GHS Strings - http://www.ghsstrings.com and Seagull Guitars
- http://www.seagullguitars.com, Jim Goodin is published by Mel Bay
Publications, Inc. - http://www.melbay.com

------=_Part_11240_29842887.1207089061001
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<div>Luca - I&#39;m not responding to your thread as I have no input to add however I read it and was curious about your website name.&nbsp; Your site is really sleek, minimal and great use of text as design.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Jim Goodin</div>
<div><a href="http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com/">www.jimgoodinmusic.com</a></div>
<div><a href="http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com/">www.chinapaintingmusic.com</a></div>
<div><br><br>&nbsp;</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 6:15 PM, Luca Formentini &lt;<a href="mailto:luca@unguitar.com">luca@unguitar.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Hello dear guys,<br>this is sure an OT, but I am sure I can get some useful informations<br>from you.<br>I would like to have the music coming out from my living room hi-fi ( I<br>
am an old man) transmitted to another set of loudspeakers in a different<br>room.<br>There is something like that made for headphones and I was wondering if<br>a thing like this exists for a regular amp+loudspeaker system.<br>
<br>thanks for you minutes,<br>luca<br><a href="http://www.unguitar.com/" target="_blank">www.unguitar.com</a><br><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>The Acoustic World Guitar of Jim Goodin - <a href="http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com">http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com</a><br>
MySpace (solo) - <a href="http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic">http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic</a><br>Chinapainting -<br><a href="http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com">http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com</a><br>Chinapainting on My Space -<br>
<a href="http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com">http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com</a><br>The Jim Goodin label and home for 7 other creative souls - <a href="http://www.woodandwiremusic.com">http://www.woodandwiremusic.com</a> <br>
Jim Goodin uses GHS Strings - <a href="http://www.ghsstrings.com">http://www.ghsstrings.com</a> and Seagull Guitars - <a href="http://www.seagullguitars.com">http://www.seagullguitars.com</a>, Jim Goodin is published by Mel Bay Publications, Inc. - <a href="http://www.melbay.com">http://www.melbay.com</a> 

------=_Part_11240_29842887.1207089061001--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  2 00:07:09 2008
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: RP Collier <skeptikalist@gmail.com>
Subject: EDP & Digitech pedal song file
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 17:07:02 -0700
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I never thought I would get an EDP but that recent price drop made it  
irresistible and I sprung for one.

And a friend gave me for my birthday a Digitech rp100 pedal that he  
wasn't using.
Never have used a Digitech pedal or an EDP before.

I made a song with the digitech pedal and the EDP and put it online  
as an mp3 to share with my friend so he can hear the digitech pedal  
being used.

I figured since it is online I would make it available publicly for  
awhile, in case there are those who don't have enough tonnage of  
music for their mp3 players.
:-)

Very simple use of the EDP, hopefully the fun I'm having shines thru.

Anyway, for your amusement:

http://www.box.net/shared/m92t3jou88



cheers

BobC




http://tinyurl.com/yt8f8j

http://www.youtube.com/tynego

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  2 01:25:59 2008
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Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 18:25:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: pedal alert empress super delay
To: Loopers Delight <loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com>
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perhaps you are already aware of it but it sounds
really cool,compact plus a 12 se. delay yummi
http://www.empresseffects.com/superdelay.php
cheers
Luis

www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  2 01:40:03 2008
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Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 18:40:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: HOW MANY LOOPS DO YOU USE SIMLUTANEOUSLY?
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Eddie Van Halen claims he doesnt know the name of
scales he plays,Elmore James played almost everything
in open D and a lot of those blues guys who wrote
great blues played one chord and didnīt know its
name,i also heard that Paco de Lucia coulnīt read
music,perhaps like Aldi Meola who i get tired of
listening after 3 songs,yet i can listen to Paco all
night...
music is music 
Luis

>   I think the example of a DJ is a great... they are
> traditionally NON musicians, but have incredible
> skill... I was more talking about BAD musicians.. as
> in a guitarist who doesn't know the names of chords,
> or can only really play in A and E, certainly cant
> play fast and certainly doesn't play chords with
> numbers in them (6ths and 7ths) with looping and /or
> effects they can be truly wonderful. I just remember
> the time I saw Joy Division, Jesus and Mary Chain,
> Kraftwerk... none were particularly dextrous in the
> fingering department.
> 
>   I AM A LOOPER... Stand proud!!
> 
>   m
> 
> 
> 
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
>   No virus found in this incoming message.
>   Checked by AVG. 
>   Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1349 -
> Release Date: 29/03/2008 17:02
> 


www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  2 01:50:38 2008
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Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 18:50:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: HOW MANY LOOPS DO YOU USE SIMLUTANEOUSLY?
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for song oriented gigs i have the EDP set up to 4
loops to sort of keep up with the song arrangement,
although i rarely go past 3.Anyway is nice to
alternate between them every once in a while to keep
your sanity
Luis



--- mech@m3ch.net wrote:

> > How many loops do us use simultaneously?
> > And why?
> 

www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  2 02:45:07 2008
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Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 22:45:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Travis Lund <tlund@berklee.net>
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I run with a Boss RC-50, so I'm pretty much limited to 3 loops (though they=
 can be as long as I want and have infinite overdubs).  I suppose something=
 like Ableton where I could have each individual part on a seperate loop an=
d manipulate them individually would be more ideal, but at this point I'm n=
ot sure how much I'd really use all that extra space.  I usually do any pro=
cessing to the sounds before I take them into the looper, and once they're =
in I don't neccessarily feel the need to mess with 'em.  Live, I reserve on=
e loop for rhythmic/percussive/bassline or drone stuff, one for short-mediu=
m length melodic themes, and one for ambient/harmonic/textural stuff.  I'll=
 usually fade out or pull down the level of the harmonic loop, while playin=
g new chords or textures as a way to transition, then delete the old textur=
es and loop the new ones.  Then, if I have a different melody, I'll start p=
laying the new one while I take the old one down, delete, and loop the new =
one, so one loop stays constant, while the other 2 "leapfrog".  I guess mor=
e loops with greater control would be nice, but not neccessary.
Cheers and happy looping,
-Travis

---------------------------------------
Original E-mail
From: "L.A. Angulo" [labaloops@yahoo.com]
Date: 04/01/2008 09:50 PM=20
To: Loopers Delight [loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com]
Subject: Re: HOW MANY LOOPS DO YOU USE SIMLUTANEOUSLY?

for song oriented gigs i have the EDP set up to 4
loops to sort of keep up with the song arrangement,
although i rarely go past 3.Anyway is nice to
alternate between them every once in a while to keep
your sanity
Luis



--- mech@m3ch.net wrote:

> > How many loops do us use simultaneously?
> > And why?
>=20

www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


      _____________________________________________________________________=
_______________
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster To=
tal Access, No Cost. =20
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  2 02:51:47 2008
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Subject: Re: HOW MANY LOOPS DO YOU USE SIMLUTANEOUSLY?
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Hey Travis,
I dont know how you are using the FCB1010 for more
loops,actually i find the EDP brilliant and more
flexible than other mutlitrack loopers ive dealt with
like the Repeater.Through midi you can have more loops
set in a bank preset and use them or record into them
at your disposal.
Also auto record is really cool because you can
instantly record into the next loop without having to
hear the first loop around.
The one feature i was hoping for(or perhaps i havent
discovered yet) is going instantly to the next loop
after muting one but still keeping all loops
synced-quantisized to each other,sort of like a
sampler.Ive become so used to the flexibility of the
EDPs wonderful midi comands using the FCB1010 that it
makes it hard to go back to the simple EDPs FC-7.
But it looks like the looperlative and Mobius
implemented a lot of the functions the EDP is missing!
cheers
Luis


--- Travis Hartnett <travishartnett@gmail.com> wrote:

> The EDP design does sort of force you into choosing
> though, since the number
> of loops is defined at the beginning.  If MoreLoops
> is set to two, and you
> get an idea for something that needs four after
> you've started, you're out
> of luck.  It's also difficult for me (and most
> people, I suspect) to manage
> more than three or four loops, particularly when
> using a MIDI controller as
> limited as the FCB.  I can imagine a scenario where
> I had six or eight
> loops, where there were A and B versions of three or
> four loops, but I
> haven't been able to figure out an effective UI for
> the FCB to control it
> all.
> 
> TH
> 
> On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 3:33 AM, Rick Walker
> <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > I just find that timbral masking occurs if one is
> constantly trying
> > to add layers to one's compositions.
> >
> > How may loops do we use,  I wonder.
> >
> > What are the aesthetic pros and cons of multiple
> layers of loops?
> >
> >
> > How many loops do us use simultaneously?
> > And why?
> >
> >
> 


www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  2 03:02:11 2008
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Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 23:02:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Travis Lund <tlund@berklee.net>
Reply-To: Travis Lund <tlund@berklee.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re[2]: HOW MANY LOOPS DO YOU USE SIMLUTANEOUSLY?
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It's not an FCB1010.  (Though I do covet one).  It's a Boss looper, the RC-50. I guess I'm behind the game technology-wise as far as what's available really.  I keep reading posts here about people using stuff that sounds really incredible, but right now my budget doesn't support a significant upgrade (too many new instruments I want to buy first).  Really, though, I've seen people do some amazing stuff with fairly minimal gear.  There's a guy from Minneapolis called Dosh who creates incredibly complex and interesting stuff using just an AKAI Headrush E-2, who actually got me into the whole looping thing, and I know Kellar Williams' set-up isn't that complex either.  I guess I'm a more-with-less kinda guy.  

---------------------------------------
Original E-mail
From: "L.A. Angulo" [labaloops@yahoo.com]
Date: 04/01/2008 10:51 PM 
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: HOW MANY LOOPS DO YOU USE SIMLUTANEOUSLY?

Hey Travis,
I dont know how you are using the FCB1010 for more
loops,actually i find the EDP brilliant and more
flexible than other mutlitrack loopers ive dealt with
like the Repeater.Through midi you can have more loops
set in a bank preset and use them or record into them
at your disposal.
Also auto record is really cool because you can
instantly record into the next loop without having to
hear the first loop around.
The one feature i was hoping for(or perhaps i havent
discovered yet) is going instantly to the next loop
after muting one but still keeping all loops
synced-quantisized to each other,sort of like a
sampler.Ive become so used to the flexibility of the
EDPs wonderful midi comands using the FCB1010 that it
makes it hard to go back to the simple EDPs FC-7.
But it looks like the looperlative and Mobius
implemented a lot of the functions the EDP is missing!
cheers
Luis


--- Travis Hartnett <travishartnett@gmail.com> wrote:

> The EDP design does sort of force you into choosing
> though, since the number
> of loops is defined at the beginning.  If MoreLoops
> is set to two, and you
> get an idea for something that needs four after
> you've started, you're out
> of luck.  It's also difficult for me (and most
> people, I suspect) to manage
> more than three or four loops, particularly when
> using a MIDI controller as
> limited as the FCB.  I can imagine a scenario where
> I had six or eight
> loops, where there were A and B versions of three or
> four loops, but I
> haven't been able to figure out an effective UI for
> the FCB to control it
> all.
> 
> TH
> 
> On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 3:33 AM, Rick Walker
> <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > I just find that timbral masking occurs if one is
> constantly trying
> > to add layers to one's compositions.
> >
> > How may loops do we use,  I wonder.
> >
> > What are the aesthetic pros and cons of multiple
> layers of loops?
> >
> >
> > How many loops do us use simultaneously?
> > And why?
> >
> >
> 


www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.  
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  2 03:28:50 2008
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From: "Rick Walker" <looppool@cruzio.com>
To: "LOOPERS DELIGHT \(posting\)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: AW: HOW MANY LOOPS DO YOU USE SIMLUTANEOUSLY?
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 20:26:48 -0700
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Rainer asked:
I'd like to ask the original poster (who was that again) how to count loops
in that context?


To me,   if you overdub different parts (as opposed to just either doubling 
or harmonizing an
individual loop) in a piece of music it doesn't really matter whether they 
are all
in one loop (the DL-4 or EDP paradigm)   or have them running simultaneously 
in separate , controllable
channels (the Looperlative, Repeater, Ableton's LIVE,  multiple instances of 
any software looping plugins
or programs).

Although one can make an arrangement more flexible with muteable and 
separately processed loops
the tendency towards timbral, rhythmic or harmonic (or disharmonic) masking 
is still the same.

Of course,  not everyone even used this pargadigm of the looping artist as a 
'one-person' band, but
I was curious about the people who do use this paradigm.

Obviously,  someone like Andre LaFosse, Andy Butler or Claude Voit so really 
amazing things with
retriggering up to 16 separate loops in the EDP but these don't exist in the 
same time with each other
(unless one is running EDPs that are synced in stereo).

How many loops do you tend to use in a piece of music.
If there is such a thing as a typical Rainer Straschill set up for a 'song'
what would it be.

yours,  Rick Walker 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  2 04:16:32 2008
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From: Beth Bahia Cohen <bethbahia@mac.com>
Subject: Re: emergency need for Echoplex Digital Pro loan in Minneapolis!
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 00:16:24 -0400
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I got so many helpful responses to my email last weekend, trying to  
find an EDP to replace my broken one - and I did get an EDP to use  
for the last two nights of my show.  It's a testament to what a good  
community this is!  thanks to everyone......Beth

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  2 04:35:20 2008
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Subject: Loopers in /near Lyon?
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Are there any loopers living in or near Lyon, France?  Or any visiting?

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  2 06:35:10 2008
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Subject: SF Gig Spam: an evening of not one, but 2 looped cellos
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 23:35:07 -0700
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This Thursday, you'll be treated to an evening of TWO looped cellists...

I'll be performing my usual popular radio hits with Cello + Electrix  
Repeaters + Ableton Live
And then Loop!Station will follow, featuring the incredible Sam Bass  
on Cello + LoopStation

Thurs, April 3rd
The Red Devil Lounge
1695 Polk Street
San Francisco, CA 94109

the doors are at 8
music starts at 9
I am on second

http://www.reddevillounge.com/

tickets are $10
available online at:
http://www.ticketweb.com/t3/sale/SaleEventDetail? 
dispatch=loadSelectionData&pl=reddevil&eventId=229202

Thank you very much for listening and I hope a few of you can come!!

my best, Zoe

p.s. My next performance is at the NASA Ames Research Center on April  
12th for the World Space Party.
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/events/2008/yuris_night/
http://bayarea.yurisnight.net/

-- 
http://www.zoekeating.com
http://www.myspace.com/zoecello

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  2 06:38:42 2008
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Subject: Re: AW: HOW MANY LOOPS DO YOU USE SIMLUTANEOUSLY?
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 23:38:40 -0700
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recently, 6 distinct loops + 6 layering loops. so 12ish.

each piece is different though, so i'd say from 4 to 12, depending on  
the piece.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  2 11:30:21 2008
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Matt Stevens <mattstevensguitar@btinternet.com>
Subject: My EP thing
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 12:30:08 +0100
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Word up guys - I'm giving my EP away free just go to my website -  
http://www.mattstevensguitar.com and join the mailing list.

I'm doing a new live looping podcast also featuring people from this  
list.

Take it easy

MS

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  2 11:50:18 2008
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Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 07:43:35 -0400 (AST)
Subject: Re: OT: transmitting music with no wires
From: "Andre' Donawa" <andre@andredonawa.com>
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Hi Phil,
this sounds cool.
what brand are you using?

andredonawa.com
http://cdbaby.com/all/andredonawa
http://www.myspace.com/andredonawa

On Tue, April 1, 2008 4:37 pm, Luca Formentini wrote:
> Oh Phil,
> this is it !
>
> thanks a lot !!!
>
> luca
> www.unguitar.com
>
> phillip wilson wrote:
>
>> one massivly cheap and fun solution i use is an FM transmitter , i got
>> mine off ebay from hong kong to the uk for about Ģ6 ($11ish) you just
>> put it in the headphone or line out socket of any audio device then
>> use any radio tuner (I use really cheap pound land ones connected to
>> amps) in all the other rooms, I find this great for partys, I can make
>> a playlist on my laptop in my bedroom then tune the
>> livingroom/kitchen/bathroom awaterproof radios into the transmitters
>> frequency and have the same music all over the house, Ive had some
>> really good feedback about that from guests.
>> Phill MyOneManBand
>>
>> u, 27 Mar 2008 23:15:18 +0100
>> > From: luca@unguitar.com
>> > To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>> > Subject: OT: transmitting music with no wires
>> >
>> > Hello dear guys,
>> > this is sure an OT, but I am sure I can get some useful informations
>> > from you.
>> > I would like to have the music coming out from my living room hi-fi (
>> I
>> > am an old man) transmitted to another set of loudspeakers in a
>> different
>> > room.
>> > There is something like that made for headphones and I was wondering
>> if
>> > a thing like this exists for a regular amp+loudspeaker system.
>> >
>> > thanks for you minutes,
>> > luca
>> > www.unguitar.com
>> >
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> A prize an hour, 24 hours a day. Try Big Snap now!
>> <http://www.bigsnapsearch.com%0A%20>
>>
>> __________ Informazione NOD32 2987 (20080331) __________
>>
>> Questo messaggio č stato controllato dal Sistema Antivirus NOD32
>> http://www.nod32.it
>
>




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Hi ..
I'm taking my first steps in looping (which are getting mobius and live for host
4 mobius).
I started reading the manuals but i'm a little lost in the whole loop
philosophy.
Generally I have lattency probs but for the time i'm only connecting the output
of my boss me 50 effect petal to the microphone input of my laptop.(i don;t
know if that is the problem but i can understand that is pretty lame
connection:))

I'm planning to buy more hardware for the looping and i don;t know with which
hardware i''l have a very good result at a reasonable price.
First of all i believe that i need a midi foot pedal(fcb1010 i think is pretty
good).That's the only thing that i'm sure for buying the rest are a large
confusion for me.
Except from en electric guitar I also have a melodica, a yamaha psr 290, a
dynamic microphone, metallolophon,classic quitar and  2 traditional  greek 
instruments(except for the electric guitar and the psr290 the rest i want to
record them through the microphone)[in the future i'll probably have percussion
stuff and contense microphones)

So  i surely need  a mixer.but which mixer?probably one with phantom power (for
future percussion) but which is the best for a laptop and for my live setup?(i
read  in the mobius manual that mute.alt 3-4 characteristic is recommended)
.But i'm also confused  with the interfaces.I want  one for the mixer conection
with the laptop and also one  midi interface for the foot pedal or a combined
one eh?
which do you suggesg?

But there are mixer which are already have usb pc connection( BEHRINGER XENYX
1204 FX  http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_xenyx_1204_fx.htm?partner_id=25293
)
?

and what is exactly the role of ASIO device?it's an audio interface?

can you enlighten me with the exact setup that i need to follow to get a good
result?

(p.s. when you use mobius as a plugin in live why there is not device
configuration in the menu as there is when you use mobius alone.[when i'm using
mobius as vst plugin for live i can;t record in it,probably i need to take some
set ups in both mobius and live eh?])

Sorry for my very newbie questions and sorry for my greeklish:)

thank you in advance

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  2 15:18:13 2008
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Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 08:18:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: scott hansen <evanpeewee@yahoo.com>
Subject: RP rp100!/premier guitar delay shootout/ boise experimental DVD's
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rp-listened to your mp3-i thought the the digitech rp100 sounded good. it brought back memories of mine that i had-i certainly abused the 2 sec of delay on my rp100 for a # of years, loved the glitchy-ness it had. and loved hearing the bit in your song w/ the auto-ya digitech effect-the funny thing in my new rp150-i think that effects sucks compared to what the rp100's had-the rp150's autoya has no volume when i use it, so i rarely use it, but liked it on the rp100....and what a nice friend to give you it for your BDAY!!!!!

i recently got a copy of "premier guitar" and they had review shootout of 3 delays: the eventide time factor, the tc electronics nova delay, and the EH-stereo memory man w/ hazarai. it is here:

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2008/Apr/Delay_Shootout_TC_Electronic_Eventide_and_EH.aspx
 
basically said the eventide is a good complicated delay-didn't say how the looper actually worked, but said it was good, the nova delay has no loop option, and the EH SMMH is a quirky fun thing to use for inspiration (the youtube vids i've seen of it i thought were impressive)

also-must say that i've been enjoying watching the 2 dvds of the boise experimental music fest that kripsen H. organizes. some good stuff on there.
watching Ted Killian in action was fun-(ted emailed me and said he's about as fun to watch play as watching grass grow or something-but don't believe him)-the only thing i wish is it had some extra interview things talking to some of the artists about how they use their laptops, technique-y things. lots of laptop use-interesting stuff-just beyond me and my small cheapo set up.
s----


       
---------------------------------
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
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rp-listened to your mp3-i thought the the digitech rp100 sounded good. it brought back memories of mine that i had-i certainly abused the 2 sec of delay on my rp100 for a # of years, loved the glitchy-ness it had. and loved hearing the bit in your song w/ the auto-ya digitech effect-the funny thing in my new rp150-i think that effects sucks compared to what the rp100's had-the rp150's autoya has no volume when i use it, so i rarely use it, but liked it on the rp100....and what a nice friend to give you it for your BDAY!!!!!<br><br>i recently got a copy of "premier guitar" and they had review shootout of 3 delays: the eventide time factor, the tc electronics nova delay, and the EH-stereo memory man w/ hazarai. it is here:<br><br>http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2008/Apr/Delay_Shootout_TC_Electronic_Eventide_and_EH.aspx<br>&nbsp;<br>basically said the eventide is a good complicated delay-didn't say how the looper actually worked, but said it was good, the nova
 delay has no loop option, and the EH SMMH is a quirky fun thing to use for inspiration (the youtube vids i've seen of it i thought were impressive)<br><br>also-must say that i've been enjoying watching the 2 dvds of the boise experimental music fest that kripsen H. organizes. some good stuff on there.<br>watching Ted Killian in action was fun-(ted emailed me and said he's about as fun to watch play as watching grass grow or something-but don't believe him)-the only thing i wish is it had some extra interview things talking to some of the artists about how they use their laptops, technique-y things. lots of laptop use-interesting stuff-just beyond me and my small cheapo set up.<br>s----<br><span style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span><br><p>&#32;

      <hr size=1>You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=47523/*http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com">one month of Blockbuster Total Access</a>, No Cost.
--0-1149296126-1207149491=:65611--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  2 15:34:20 2008
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Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 08:34:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: scott hansen <evanpeewee@yahoo.com>
Subject: OT-SUPER LATE POST to MULTI-effects..
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to the person looking for some other multi-effects options (although why since you had an eventide unit i can't imagine)...anyway...was doing some reading of reviews recently and 2 units that seem to be the "she-bang" in recent multi-effects supposedly:

1. the line 6 POD v.3-supposed to have options for 2 sets of processing at once (from what i understand)

2. the roland VG-99-similar -to above in that it has routing options that multiple amps &/or effects can be used at once.

and i was looking at pics of vernon reid's recent gigs w/ the free form funky freqs, and w/ his setup (which looks massive) he has a vg-99 mounted on a stand. so he's using it. i remember guitar player had an advanced review late last yr of vg-99-said it had options of running 2 different amp models w/ multiple-effects- they said something about using flanger w/ tremolo w/ filter w/ delay options and wacky reverb-and the sounds you could get....they gave it a good review i remember.
so some gear to look into for you....

my funny comment was while reading the vg-99 review is that w/ my set up of zoom g2 into a digitech rp150, i can have 2 amp models (plus distortion box models) w/ loads of wacky effects (i think of it as budget adrian belew's 80's rack of analog doom)--there are funny textures you can get w/ running a mesa rectifier model into an acoustic model w/ large reverb into small reverb,etc...and my set up cost 200$ vs the 1000$ vg-99. granted i know it does all kinds of pu modeling and has stereo options etc,...oh well....
s---



       
---------------------------------
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
--0-448825587-1207150459=:71648
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to the person looking for some other multi-effects options (although why since you had an eventide unit i can't imagine)...anyway...was doing some reading of reviews recently and 2 units that seem to be the "she-bang" in recent multi-effects supposedly:<br><br>1. the line 6 POD v.3-supposed to have options for 2 sets of processing at once (from what i understand)<br><br>2. the roland VG-99-similar -to above in that it has routing options that multiple amps &amp;/or effects can be used at once.<br><br>and i was looking at pics of vernon reid's recent gigs w/ the free form funky freqs, and w/ his setup (which looks massive) he has a vg-99 mounted on a stand. so he's using it. i remember guitar player had an advanced review late last yr of vg-99-said it had options of running 2 different amp models w/ multiple-effects- they said something about using flanger w/ tremolo w/ filter w/ delay options and wacky reverb-and the sounds you could get....they gave it a good review i
 remember.<br>so some gear to look into for you....<br><br>my funny comment was while reading the vg-99 review is that w/ my set up of zoom g2 into a digitech rp150, i can have 2 amp models (plus distortion box models) w/ loads of wacky effects (i think of it as budget adrian belew's 80's rack of analog doom)--there are funny textures you can get w/ running a mesa rectifier model into an acoustic model w/ large reverb into small reverb,etc...and my set up cost 200$ vs the 1000$ vg-99. granted i know it does all kinds of pu modeling and has stereo options etc,...oh well....<br>s---<br><br><br><p>&#32;

      <hr size=1>You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=47523/*http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com">one month of Blockbuster Total Access</a>, No Cost.
--0-448825587-1207150459=:71648--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  2 17:28:39 2008
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Subject: Re: OT-SUPER LATE POST to MULTI-effects..
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Scott,

I picked up a VG-99 last October as well.

Used it for the first time in public last Friday night.

I'll never be the same . . .

Lots of weirdness potential there.

And cool "normal" potential too . . . heheh.

Dual multi-FX COSM processors for each of 6 strings can get pretty freaky.

I've still got my dual Vortexes and Akiras and EDPs too.

But the freak factor has been upped by 10x.

It's just a little expensive and you gotta use a GK (or Axion) pickup.

Most folks are not willing to bolt another "thing" on the front of their guitar.

Since I've been using GKs for 15 years it seemed like "the next step."

For those who are willing, it's pretty neat-o.

It certainly helped me get rid of the rack of doom.

Duke Sexton (on this list) uses one as well - and was very helpful with pointers and info when I bought mine (and since).

Cheers,

Ted

---- scott hansen <evanpeewee@yahoo.com> wrote: 
> to the person looking for some other multi-effects options (although why since you had an eventide unit i can't imagine)...anyway...was doing some reading of reviews recently and 2 units that seem to be the "she-bang" in recent multi-effects supposedly:
> 
> 1. the line 6 POD v.3-supposed to have options for 2 sets of processing at once (from what i understand)
> 
> 2. the roland VG-99-similar -to above in that it has routing options that multiple amps &/or effects can be used at once.
> 
> and i was looking at pics of vernon reid's recent gigs w/ the free form funky freqs, and w/ his setup (which looks massive) he has a vg-99 mounted on a stand. so he's using it. i remember guitar player had an advanced review late last yr of vg-99-said it had options of running 2 different amp models w/ multiple-effects- they said something about using flanger w/ tremolo w/ filter w/ delay options and wacky reverb-and the sounds you could get....they gave it a good review i remember.
> so some gear to look into for you....
> 
> my funny comment was while reading the vg-99 review is that w/ my set up of zoom g2 into a digitech rp150, i can have 2 amp models (plus distortion box models) w/ loads of wacky effects (i think of it as budget adrian belew's 80's rack of analog doom)--there are funny textures you can get w/ running a mesa rectifier model into an acoustic model w/ large reverb into small reverb,etc...and my set up cost 200$ vs the 1000$ vg-99. granted i know it does all kinds of pu modeling and has stereo options etc,...oh well....
> s---
> 
> 
> 
>        
> ---------------------------------
> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  2 17:37:21 2008
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Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 10:37:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: S V G <vsyevolod@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:  repeater manual
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     Matthias,

     You can find the various manuals (as well as software upgrades) in the files section of the
RepeaterUsers Yahoo group

     http://tinyurl.com/2lg4rp

     Stephen



I need to get the manual for the electrix repeater with 1.1 firmware.
But the website is down.

if anyone has a copy can you please send it to me.


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.  
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  2 18:29:32 2008
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From: RP Collier <skeptikalist@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: RP rp100!/premier guitar delay shootout/ boise experimental DVD's
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 11:27:48 -0700
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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Hi Scott

Thanks for checking out the mp3, I have only used the rp100 presets  
and not delved into the functions yet.

On Apr 2, 2008, at 8:18 AM, scott hansen wrote:
> the rp150's autoya has no volume when i use it, so i rarely use it

Maybe there is a way to boost the gain by going into the edit mode  
and tweaking?


regards

BobC





http://tinyurl.com/yt8f8j

http://www.youtube.com/tynego

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  2 19:55:18 2008
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Subject: RE: OT: transmitting music with no wires
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 19:55:17 +0000
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--_eda5b5dc-83a7-47e7-aa5b-1ccce2fba5d4_
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check out item no. 280214375030 on ebay that is same as mine by looks and w=
orks out under =A314 it has a range usable for my 4 bedroomed house with li=
ving room dinig room kitchen and conservatory with radios tuned well in all=
.

good luck

> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 07:43:35 -0400
> Subject: Re: OT: transmitting music with no wires
> From: andre@andredonawa.com
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>=20
> Hi Phil,
> this sounds cool.
> what brand are you using?
>=20
> andredonawa.com
> http://cdbaby.com/all/andredonawa
> http://www.myspace.com/andredonawa
>=20
> On Tue, April 1, 2008 4:37 pm, Luca Formentini wrote:
> > Oh Phil,
> > this is it !
> >
> > thanks a lot !!!
> >
> > luca
> > www.unguitar.com
> >
> > phillip wilson wrote:
> >
> >> one massivly cheap and fun solution i use is an FM transmitter , i got
> >> mine off ebay from hong kong to the uk for about =A36 ($11ish) you jus=
t
> >> put it in the headphone or line out socket of any audio device then
> >> use any radio tuner (I use really cheap pound land ones connected to
> >> amps) in all the other rooms, I find this great for partys, I can make
> >> a playlist on my laptop in my bedroom then tune the
> >> livingroom/kitchen/bathroom awaterproof radios into the transmitters
> >> frequency and have the same music all over the house, Ive had some
> >> really good feedback about that from guests.
> >> Phill MyOneManBand
> >>
> >> u, 27 Mar 2008 23:15:18 +0100
> >> > From: luca@unguitar.com
> >> > To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> >> > Subject: OT: transmitting music with no wires
> >> >
> >> > Hello dear guys,
> >> > this is sure an OT, but I am sure I can get some useful informations
> >> > from you.
> >> > I would like to have the music coming out from my living room hi-fi =
(
> >> I
> >> > am an old man) transmitted to another set of loudspeakers in a
> >> different
> >> > room.
> >> > There is something like that made for headphones and I was wondering
> >> if
> >> > a thing like this exists for a regular amp+loudspeaker system.
> >> >
> >> > thanks for you minutes,
> >> > luca
> >> > www.unguitar.com
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
> >> A prize an hour, 24 hours a day. Try Big Snap now!
> >> <http://www.bigsnapsearch.com%0A%20>
> >>
> >> __________ Informazione NOD32 2987 (20080331) __________
> >>
> >> Questo messaggio =E8 stato controllato dal Sistema Antivirus NOD32
> >> http://www.nod32.it
> >
> >
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20

_________________________________________________________________
The next generation of Windows Live is here
http://www.windowslive.co.uk/get-live=

--_eda5b5dc-83a7-47e7-aa5b-1ccce2fba5d4_
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<html>
<head>
<style>
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma
}
</style>
</head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'>
<span class=3D"ebay">check out item no. 280214375030</span> on ebay that is=
 same as mine by looks and works out under =A314 it has a range usable for =
my 4 bedroomed house with living room dinig room kitchen and conservatory w=
ith radios tuned well in all.<br><br>good luck<br><br>&gt; Date: Wed, 2 Apr=
 2008 07:43:35 -0400<br>&gt; Subject: Re: OT: transmitting music with no wi=
res<br>&gt; From: andre@andredonawa.com<br>&gt; To: Loopers-Delight@loopers=
-delight.com<br>&gt; <br>&gt; Hi Phil,<br>&gt; this sounds cool.<br>&gt; wh=
at brand are you using?<br>&gt; <br>&gt; andredonawa.com<br>&gt; http://cdb=
aby.com/all/andredonawa<br>&gt; http://www.myspace.com/andredonawa<br>&gt; =
<br>&gt; On Tue, April 1, 2008 4:37 pm, Luca Formentini wrote:<br>&gt; &gt;=
 Oh Phil,<br>&gt; &gt; this is it !<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; thanks a lot =
!!!<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt; luca<br>&gt; &gt; www.unguitar.com<br>&gt; &g=
t;<br>&gt; &gt; phillip wilson wrote:<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; one mas=
sivly cheap and fun solution i use is an FM transmitter , i got<br>&gt; &gt=
;&gt; mine off ebay from hong kong to the uk for about =A36 ($11ish) you ju=
st<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; put it in the headphone or line out socket of any audio=
 device then<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; use any radio tuner (I use really cheap pound=
 land ones connected to<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; amps) in all the other rooms, I fi=
nd this great for partys, I can make<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; a playlist on my lapt=
op in my bedroom then tune the<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; livingroom/kitchen/bathroom=
 awaterproof radios into the transmitters<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; frequency and ha=
ve the same music all over the house, Ive had some<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; really =
good feedback about that from guests.<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; Phill MyOneManBand<b=
r>&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; u, 27 Mar 2008 23:15:18 +0100<br>&gt; &gt;=
&gt; &gt; From: luca@unguitar.com<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; To: Loopers-Delight=
@loopers-delight.com<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Subject: OT: transmitting music =
with no wires<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Hello dear guys,<=
br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; this is sure an OT, but I am sure I can get some usef=
ul informations<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; from you.<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; I wou=
ld like to have the music coming out from my living room hi-fi (<br>&gt; &g=
t;&gt; I<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; am an old man) transmitted to another set of=
 loudspeakers in a<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; different<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; room.<b=
r>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; There is something like that made for headphones and I=
 was wondering<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; if<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; a thing like this =
exists for a regular amp+loudspeaker system.<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; =
&gt;&gt; &gt; thanks for you minutes,<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; luca<br>&gt; &g=
t;&gt; &gt; www.unguitar.com<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt;=
 &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; ------------------------------------------------=
------------------------<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; A prize an hour, 24 hours a day. =
Try Big Snap now!<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;http://www.bigsnapsearch.com%0A%20&g=
t;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; __________ Informazione NOD32 2987 (20=
080331) __________<br>&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; Questo messaggio =E8 s=
tato controllato dal Sistema Antivirus NOD32<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; http://www.no=
d32.it<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; &gt;<br>&gt; <br>&gt; <br>&gt; <br>&gt; <br><br=
 /><hr />Get fish-slapping on Messenger <a href=3D'http://www.fishticuffs.c=
o.uk' target=3D'_new'>Play now!</a></body>
</html>=

--_eda5b5dc-83a7-47e7-aa5b-1ccce2fba5d4_--

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From eBay@ameritaxdallas.com  Wed Apr  2 22:10:30 2008
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From: "eBay Member: aragberi"<eBay>
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<TABLE cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0>
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<TD noWrap width="1%"><IMG height=39 alt=eBay src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/uk/logos/ebay_95x39.gif" width=95></TD>
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<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif">Do not respond to the sender if this message requests that you complete the transaction outside of <SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1207135943_3 style="CURSOR: hand; BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed">eBay</SPAN>. This type of offer is against <SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1207135943_4 style="CURSOR: hand; BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed">eBay</SPAN> policy, may be fraudulent, and is not covered by buyer protection programs. <A href="http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/rfe-spam-non-ebay-sale.html" target=_blank rel=nofollow><SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1207135943_5><FONT color=#003399>Learn More</FONT></SPAN></A>.</TD>
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<TD><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif"><STRONG>Dear ,</STRONG><BR><BR>I'm still waiting your item to arrive! Can you tell me where is it???.<BR><BR>
<DIV style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif">- aragberi</DIV></FONT></TD>
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<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" vAlign=top>364341123221</TD></TR>
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<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" vAlign=top noWrap width="15%">End Date:</TD>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" vAlign=top>2-Apr-08 12:17:06 </TD></TR>
<TR vAlign=top>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" vAlign=top>From User:</TD>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif">
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" noWrap><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif"><A href="http://myworld.ebay.com/aragberi?&amp;ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:GB:1181" target=_blank rel=nofollow><SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1207135943_8><FONT color=#003399>aragberi</FONT></SPAN></A> (<A href="http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&amp;&amp;userid=aragberi&amp;ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:GB:1183" target=_blank rel=nofollow><SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1207135943_9 style="BACKGROUND: none transparent scroll repeat 0% 0%"><FONT color=#003399>2187</FONT></SPAN></A><FONT color=#003399><IMG height=25 src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/uk/icon/iconRedStar_25x25.gif" width=25 align=absMiddle></FONT>)</FONT></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" noWrap>99.3% Positive Feedback</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" noWrap>Member since 17-May-05 in United States</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" noWrap>Location : CA, United States</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" noWrap><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif">Activity with aragberi (last 90 days):I have bid on <B>1</B> items from aragberi</FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD colSpan=2><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif">This message was sent while the listing was <STRONG>closed.</STRONG>aragberi is a <B>seller</B>.</FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></DIV></DIV>
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<TABLE style="BORDER-RIGHT: #6b7b91 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #6b7b91 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #6b7b91 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #6b7b91 1px solid" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0>
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<TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" noWrap width="20%">Marketplace Safety Tip</TD>
<TD><IMG height=25 alt="" src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/uk/securityCenter/imgTabCorner_25x25.gif" width=25 align=absMiddle></TD>
<TD width="80%" background=http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/uk/securityCenter/imgFlex_1x25.gif height=1></TD></TR>
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<UL style="MARGIN-TOP: 5px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5px">
<LI style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 3px; LINE-HEIGHT: 120%; PADDING-TOP: 3px; LIST-STYLE-TYPE: square">Second Chance Offer emails with the subject of "message from eBay Member" are fake. Real <A href="http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/buy/personal-offer.html" target=_blank rel=nofollow><SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1207135943_10><FONT color=#003399>Second Chance Offers</FONT></SPAN></A> come directly from <SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1207135943_11 style="CURSOR: hand; BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed">eBay</SPAN> and also appear in <A href="http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/myebay/my-messages.html" target=_blank rel=nofollow><SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1207135943_12><FONT color=#003399>My Messages</FONT></SPAN></A> with a subject line of "You have a second chance offer...". 
<LI style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 3px; LINE-HEIGHT: 120%; PADDING-TOP: 3px; LIST-STYLE-TYPE: square">Never pay for your <SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1207135943_13 style="CURSOR: hand; BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed">eBay</SPAN> item using instant case wire transfer services through <SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1207135943_14 style="CURSOR: hand; BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed">Western Union</SPAN> or MoneyGram. These payment methods are unsafe when paying someone you don't know. <A href="http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/tp/payment-ov.html" target=_blank rel=nofollow><SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1207135943_15 style="BACKGROUND: none transparent scroll repeat 0% 0%"><FONT color=#003399>Learn more</FONT></SPAN></A> about sending payments. 
<LI style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 3px; LINE-HEIGHT: 120%; PADDING-TOP: 3px; LIST-STYLE-TYPE: square">Is this email inappropriate? Does it breach <A href="http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/rfe-unwelcome-email-misuse.html" target=_blank rel=nofollow><SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1207135943_16 style="BACKGROUND: none transparent scroll repeat 0% 0%"><FONT color=#003399>eBay policy</FONT></SPAN></A>? Help protect the Community by <A href="http://cgi1.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ReportEmailAbuseShow&amp;reporteruserid=bijux12&amp;reporteduserid=aragberi&amp;emaildate=2008/03/31:07:44:11&amp;emailtype=3&amp;emailtext=Some+of+you+people+just+think+you+are+so+smart+right%3F+You+must+think+we+are+bunch+of+fools+in+here.++As+stated+on+the+auction+page+and+we+%27ve+told+you+many+times+times+already%2C+NO+PAYPAL+FROM+ROMANIA.++ABSOLUTELY+NO+PAYPAL%21%21++Sending+a+paypal+payment+will+be+a+WASTE+of+your+time%2C+and+I+dont+have+time+for+this+foolish+game%2C+because+we+made+this+VERY+CLEAR+from+the+begining.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0
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<TD width="100%"><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: xx-small; COLOR: #666; FONT-FAMILY: verdana"><A href="http://pages.ebay.co.uk/education/spooftutorial/index.html" target=_blank rel=nofollow><SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1207135943_18><FONT color=#003399>Learn More</FONT></SPAN></A> to protect yourself from spoof (fake) emails.<BR><BR>Another eBay member sent this email to biju_fyl@yahoo.com through the eBay platform. <SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1207135943_19 style="CURSOR: hand; BORDER-BOTTOM: #0066cc 1px dashed">eBay</SPAN> takes no liability for the sending of this email or its content<BR><BR>Read our <A href="http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/privacy-policy.html" target=_blank rel=nofollow><SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1207135943_20 style="BACKGROUND: none transparent scroll repeat 0% 0%"><FONT color=#003399>Privacy Policy</FONT></SPAN></A> and <A href="http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/user-agreement.html" target=_blank rel=nofollow><SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1207135943_21><FONT color=#003399>User Agree

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  2 22:31:38 2008
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Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 15:24:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lavaspin <lavaspin@yahoo.com>
Subject: New Echoplex: Distortion when loop plays back -- faulty machine or faulty human?
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Esteemed loopers, I'm hoping you can help. I've been
reading the listserv for about three months and
upgraded from my Digitech Jamman to an Echoplex when
one of you mentioned the Musician's Friend sale.

Anyway, I have it and looking forward to using it, BUT
I'm getting major distortion when the loop begins to
play back. Everything sounds fine as I play through
the unit and when I play over the top of the loop
signal. But the loop itself is distorted (LOTS of
noise). I don't recall this the first time I used it
(at a different place). But it doesn't seem to be a
geographic problem, since all my other equipment
appears to work fine, and it is only the loop itself
that is distorted. By the way, I played around with
the input knob and output knob to make sure I wasn't
overdriving or underdriving the signal, and that does
not seem to the problem. Do I send it back for a new
one (hope they can get me a replacement!).

Thanks for any suggestions


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.  
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

From info@streetblast.com  Wed Apr  2 22:44:49 2008
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From: "StreetBlast.com" <info@streetblast.com>
To: <looparc@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: =?windows-1252?Q?The_Most_Haunted_Place_On_Earth_-_Waverly_Hills_Sanatorium?=
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 18:12:05 -0400
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dwindows-1252">
</head>
<body STYLE=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><p><strong>LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY'S =
"WAVERLY HILLS=20
SANATORIUM"</strong><br><br>FOR MORE INFORMATION:<br><a=20
href=3D"http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;Item=3D2002102974=
91&amp;Category=3D307&amp;_trksid=3Dp3907.m29">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayI=
SAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;Item=3D200210297491&amp;Category=3D307&amp;_trksid=3D=
p3907.m29</a></p>
<p>The Waverly Hills Sanatorium is a real building in Louisville Kentucky, =
and=20
one of the most haunted places in the United States. </p>
<p>It has been featured on "The World's Scariest Places," "MTV's Fear," =
and was=20
the location used to film the horror film "The Death Tunnel. Recently, it =
was=20
the subject for two shows on the Sci-Fi Channel - "Spooked: The Ghosts of=20
Waverly Hills Sanatorium," and "TAPS - GHOST HUNTERS!"</p>
<p>The Waverly Hills Sanatorium was a place for people to go to die. It =
housed=20
thousands of patients who were diagnosed with TB, and were sent there "by =
law"=20
to live at Waverly until they were cured, or perished. Because there was =
no=20
cure, many of them indeed died there, and at peak operation there was one =
death=20
an hour.</p>
<p>It now stands to reason that this facility would be a prime location =
for=20
hauntings, considering that that much suffering and death occurred. Even =
two=20
nurses committed suicide in that building. </p>
<p>It took over three years to create this audio CD, with ghost stories =
and=20
paranormal activity caught on our audio equipment - mastered, and ready =
for=20
listeners to experience. </p>
<p>This CD was compiled to bring listeners an old time treat, to play this =
CD by=20
the speakers in the dark, and listening to the many ghost stories that =
haunt the=20
building to this very day. The CD is even hosted by a dearly departed =
resident=20
of Waverly, who acts as your caretaker on your audio tour.</p>
<p>FOR MORE INFORMATION:<br><a=20
href=3D"http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;Item=3D2002102974=
91&amp;Category=3D307&amp;_trksid=3Dp3907.m29">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayI=
SAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;Item=3D200210297491&amp;Category=3D307&amp;_trksid=3D=
p3907.m29</a></p>
<p>Points of interest on "The Waverly Hills Sanatorium Audio Experience":</p>
<p>The original 2002 broadcast contains a EVP (Electronic Voice Phenomena) =
which=20
when played at normal speed sounds like five tones in a row, forming a =
melody.=20
When those tones are slowed down, it becomes a woman's voice saying "your =
not=20
supposed to be here." This famous EVP captured during this broadcast was=20
featured on Fox News, and is mentioned on the ghost tour at Waverly. </p>
<p>The best way to listen to this CD is with the lights off, and the =
speakers=20
up. Make sure you have some friends with you, because some of the things =
you=20
will hear are incredibly frightening. </p>
<p>While everything that happened to us on the broadcast was 100% REAL, =
and=20
nothing was pre-planned or faked, we can still not confirm or deny that=20
"something" exists beyond death. We do want to stress that Waverly, if =
anything,=20
is the closest proof we have been provided to make us believe there is =
more in=20
the "afterlife" than we presently understand.</p>
<p>Jessica Shoffner, one of our audio crew members grew very sick almost=20
instantly in the Solarium, and had to sit on the floor for several minutes =
to=20
regain her composure. She was sweating, very warm, and complained of =
being=20
physically ill without warning.</p>
<p>FOR MORE INFORMATION:<br><a=20
href=3D"http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;Item=3D2002102974=
91&amp;Category=3D307&amp;_trksid=3Dp3907.m29">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayI=
SAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;Item=3D200210297491&amp;Category=3D307&amp;_trksid=3D=
p3907.m29</a></p>
<p>Our crew not only experienced sudden onsets of sickness, but our video=20
cameras began functioning wildly, with flashing lights and draining =
batteries.=20
Our audio equipment stopped, then started, and it took us a few attempts =
to get=20
back on track with the rest of the tour. At one point of our visit, bare=20
footprints appeared on the cement, which caused us to go and investigate, =
and=20
doors slammed and banged as we tried to get Jessica some air and continue=20
conducting our investigation.</p>
<p>The entire setting for the evening was one twisted turn of events =
after=20
another, which can all be heard on "The Waverly Hills Sanatorium Audio=20
Experience." </p>
<p>Early in the tour, we quickly began to realize that we had much more in =
store=20
for us than we bargained for - and we were right.</p>
<p>Later in the tour we would witness a wispy figure dart across a door =
across=20
the way from us on the fifth floor, and then witness "shadow people" =
crossing=20
from one door to another breaking the natural light flowing in from the =
night=20
sky outdoors. </p>
<p>FOR MORE INFORMATION:<br><a=20
href=3D"http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;Item=3D2002102974=
91&amp;Category=3D307&amp;_trksid=3Dp3907.m29">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayI=
SAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;Item=3D200210297491&amp;Category=3D307&amp;_trksid=3D=
p3907.m29</a></p>
<p>Our biggest, and possibly the most horrifying event was not the shadow =
people=20
we were watching, but the dark ominous figure that was standing behind =
us,=20
seeming to get closer. The air grew silent and still - and the temperature =
of=20
the room grew WARM. Keith Age from the Louisville Ghost Hunters Society =
quickly=20
asked us to step back, because he said that this was typical right before=20
"violent activity" occurred.</p>
<p>While everyone investigated the area safely, there were no physical =
attacks -=20
however doors continued to close on their own, and in one case even =
unlock.</p>
<p>All of these events are captured on "The Waverly Hills Sanatorium =
Audio=20
Experience," and we urge you to get a copy and experience it for yourself. =
There=20
were definitely things we could not explain, and for the record - the =
large dark=20
"shadowy" figure that stood behind us haunts my mind as we write this now. =
I=20
never EVER want to see anything similar to that in my lifetime.</p>
<p>FOR MORE INFORMATION:<br><a=20
href=3D"http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;Item=3D2002102974=
91&amp;Category=3D307&amp;_trksid=3Dp3907.m29">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayI=
SAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;Item=3D200210297491&amp;Category=3D307&amp;_trksid=3D=
p3907.m29</a></p>
<p>I do hope you enjoy this 80 minute CD, as our crew has worked hard and=20
"suffered" a lot to bring them to you. Happy Hauntings! ~ Jake A. Wheat =
(Station=20
Manager)</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>To unsubscribe:</p>
<p><a=20
href=3D"http://www.streetblastradio.com/Remove/remove1.htm">http://www.stre=
etblastradio.com/Remove/remove1.htm</a><br><br>Can=20
Spam 2003 Compliant<br>Jake A. Wheat<br>8018 Third Street =
Road<br>Louisville,=20
Kentucky 40214<br><a=20
href=3D"mailto:jake@streetblast.com">jake@streetblast.com</a></p>
</body>
</html>


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  2 22:46:15 2008
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Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 16:46:13 -0600
From: "holotone@gmail.com" <holotone@gmail.com>
Sender: cole@holotone.net
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Merging KP3 Loop Layers
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A consistent problem I've had ever since I've began using a Korg KP3 as my
primary compositional and looping tool is the tricky business of merging
separate layers. As you may know, the KP3 has 4 sample banks, all of which
by default loop beautifully. When it comes to, say, merging Banks A, B, and
C over to the D bank (to free up the space for more layering), the typical
approach I've always taken is entering "Sample All" mode (shift+Sample),
selecting bank D while A, B, and C are playing, and recording them as merged
on D. The rub, of course, is that banks A, B, and C continue to loop AFTER D
completes the merge, meaning I have to be lightning quick simultaneously
disabling banks A, B, and C JUST after D finishes it's record cycle (to
avoid a "drop" at the end of D's merged version) while simultaneously not
letting A, B, and C continue playing as D starts up (which results in the
same sound being played over the top of itself, with 2x the volume and 2x
the distortion). I've gotten pretty good with practice, but there's always
that perceivable microsecond "jump" in level and distortion when merging, as
I tend to err on the side of safety to avoid the aforementioned "drop".

Is there some feature I'm overlooking that will selectively stop the source
sample banks playing the moment the merged version begins, or am I just
going to have to keep on with practice, practice, practice?

Thanks!

-- 
~cole
http://holotone.net/

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A consistent problem I&#39;ve had ever since I&#39;ve began using a Korg KP=
3 as my primary compositional and looping tool is the tricky business of me=
rging separate layers. As you may know, the KP3 has 4 sample banks, all of =
which by default loop beautifully. When it comes to, say, merging Banks A, =
B, and C over to the D bank (to free up the space for more layering), the t=
ypical approach I&#39;ve always taken is entering &quot;Sample All&quot; mo=
de (shift+Sample), selecting bank D while A, B, and C are playing, and reco=
rding them as merged on D. The rub, of course, is that banks A, B, and C co=
ntinue to loop AFTER D completes the merge, meaning I have to be lightning =
quick simultaneously disabling banks A, B, and C JUST after D finishes it&#=
39;s record cycle (to avoid a &quot;drop&quot; at the end of D&#39;s merged=
 version) while simultaneously not letting A, B, and C continue playing as =
D starts up (which results in the same sound being played over the top of i=
tself, with 2x the volume and 2x the distortion). I&#39;ve gotten pretty go=
od with practice, but there&#39;s always that perceivable microsecond &quot=
;jump&quot; in level and distortion when merging, as I tend to err on the s=
ide of safety to avoid the aforementioned &quot;drop&quot;.<br>
<br>Is there some feature I&#39;m overlooking that will selectively stop th=
e source sample banks playing the moment the merged version begins, or am I=
 just going to have to keep on with practice, practice, practice?<br><br>
Thanks!<br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>~cole<br><a href=3D"http://holotone.net=
/">http://holotone.net/</a>

------=_Part_4590_8382228.1207176373182--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr  3 01:27:53 2008
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Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 20:27:51 -0500
From: "Doug Cox" <uncledig@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: New Echoplex: Distortion when loop plays back -- faulty machine or faulty human?
In-Reply-To: <342921.2394.qm@web53406.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
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First thing I would suggest is to open it up and re-seat all of the
RAM.  I've experienced inexplicably distorted loops on my EDP before,
and both times it was fixed by doing this.

Good luck!

Doug

On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 5:24 PM, Lavaspin <lavaspin@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Esteemed loopers, I'm hoping you can help. I've been
>  reading the listserv for about three months and
>  upgraded from my Digitech Jamman to an Echoplex when
>  one of you mentioned the Musician's Friend sale.
>
>  Anyway, I have it and looking forward to using it, BUT
>  I'm getting major distortion when the loop begins to
>  play back. Everything sounds fine as I play through
>  the unit and when I play over the top of the loop
>  signal. But the loop itself is distorted (LOTS of
>  noise). I don't recall this the first time I used it
>  (at a different place). But it doesn't seem to be a
>  geographic problem, since all my other equipment
>  appears to work fine, and it is only the loop itself
>  that is distorted. By the way, I played around with
>  the input knob and output knob to make sure I wasn't
>  overdriving or underdriving the signal, and that does
>  not seem to the problem. Do I send it back for a new
>  one (hope they can get me a replacement!).
>
>  Thanks for any suggestions
>
>
>
>       ____________________________________________________________________________________
>  You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
>  http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr  3 02:18:14 2008
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    <BAY101-W416A7CFFC8C440350254BCBEF40@phx.gbl>
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 22:18:15 -0400 (AST)
Subject: RE: OT: transmitting music with no wires
From: "Andre' Donawa" <andre@andredonawa.com>
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Cheers

On Wed, April 2, 2008 3:55 pm, phillip wilson wrote:
>
> check out item no. 280214375030 on ebay that is same as mine by looks and
> works out under Ģ14 it has a range usable for my 4 bedroomed house with
> living room dinig room kitchen and conservatory with radios tuned well in
> all.
>
> good luck
>
>> Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 07:43:35 -0400
>> Subject: Re: OT: transmitting music with no wires
>> From: andre@andredonawa.com
>> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>>
>> Hi Phil,
>> this sounds cool.
>> what brand are you using?
>>
>> andredonawa.com
>> http://cdbaby.com/all/andredonawa
>> http://www.myspace.com/andredonawa
>>
>> On Tue, April 1, 2008 4:37 pm, Luca Formentini wrote:
>> > Oh Phil,
>> > this is it !
>> >
>> > thanks a lot !!!
>> >
>> > luca
>> > www.unguitar.com
>> >
>> > phillip wilson wrote:
>> >
>> >> one massivly cheap and fun solution i use is an FM transmitter , i
>> got
>> >> mine off ebay from hong kong to the uk for about Ģ6 ($11ish) you just
>> >> put it in the headphone or line out socket of any audio device then
>> >> use any radio tuner (I use really cheap pound land ones connected to
>> >> amps) in all the other rooms, I find this great for partys, I can
>> make
>> >> a playlist on my laptop in my bedroom then tune the
>> >> livingroom/kitchen/bathroom awaterproof radios into the transmitters
>> >> frequency and have the same music all over the house, Ive had some
>> >> really good feedback about that from guests.
>> >> Phill MyOneManBand
>> >>
>> >> u, 27 Mar 2008 23:15:18 +0100
>> >> > From: luca@unguitar.com
>> >> > To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>> >> > Subject: OT: transmitting music with no wires
>> >> >
>> >> > Hello dear guys,
>> >> > this is sure an OT, but I am sure I can get some useful
>> informations
>> >> > from you.
>> >> > I would like to have the music coming out from my living room hi-fi
>> (
>> >> I
>> >> > am an old man) transmitted to another set of loudspeakers in a
>> >> different
>> >> > room.
>> >> > There is something like that made for headphones and I was
>> wondering
>> >> if
>> >> > a thing like this exists for a regular amp+loudspeaker system.
>> >> >
>> >> > thanks for you minutes,
>> >> > luca
>> >> > www.unguitar.com
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> A prize an hour, 24 hours a day. Try Big Snap now!
>> >> <http://www.bigsnapsearch.com%0A%20>
>> >>
>> >> __________ Informazione NOD32 2987 (20080331) __________
>> >>
>> >> Questo messaggio č stato controllato dal Sistema Antivirus NOD32
>> >> http://www.nod32.it
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The next generation of Windows Live is here
> http://www.windowslive.co.uk/get-live


andredonawa.com
http://cdbaby.com/all/andredonawa
http://www.myspace.com/andredonawa

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr  3 06:42:57 2008
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Subject: Re[2]: repeater manual
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great,

thanks Steven.

Matthias


SVG>      Matthias,

SVG>      You can find the various manuals (as well as software
SVG> upgrades) in the files section of the
SVG> RepeaterUsers Yahoo group

SVG>      http://tinyurl.com/2lg4rp

SVG>      Stephen



SVG> I need to get the manual for the electrix repeater with 1.1 firmware.
SVG> But the website is down.

SVG> if anyone has a copy can you please send it to me.


SVG>      
SVG> ____________________________________________________________________________________
SVG> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of
SVG> Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.  
SVG> http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com



-- 
Best regards,
 numbernine                            mailto:numbernine@gmx.net

From nonresponde@poste.it  Thu Apr  3 08:49:02 2008
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From: "Poste italiane" <nonresponde@poste.it>
Subject: Accedi ai servizi online per attivare il codice dispositivo
Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 04:22:26 -0400
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 grazie per aver scelto BancoPostaonline.<br>
 <br>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr  3 11:31:06 2008
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Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 06:28:08 -0500
From: Bill Fox <billyfox@soundscapes.us>
Subject: Listen To Afterglow, Galactic Travels, and The AM/FM Show
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GALACTIC TRAVELS ON WDIY:                   http://galactictravels.info
=======================================================================
Tonight at 11 pm on Galactic Travels, I'll begin a month-long Special
Focus on Create.  The Featured CD at Midnight will be "Kindred Spirits"
which is a self-released title.  For details, see the Special Focus
page at: http://wdiy.org/programs/gt/playlists/2008/focus.html#apr
Check out Galactic Travels on MySpace at:
http://myspace.com/galactictravels

Galactic Travels is an electronic, ambient, and space music show that
airs each Thursday at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and
Bethlehem, 93.9 FM in Easton and Phillipsburg, 93.7 FM in Fogelsville
and Trexlertown, on the internet, and in High Definition Radio at 88.1
FM.


THE AM/FM SHOW ON WMUH:                      http://soundscapes.us/amfm
=======================================================================
My next stint on the AM/FM Show will be Saturday, April 5 at 6:00 am.
I will continue the special on Sequences Electronic Music Magazine's
sampler CDs.

Tune in to WMUH Allentown at 91.7 FM, broadcasting from the campus of
Muhlenberg College.  I alternate hosting the show with Bruce.  When I
am at the helm, the show features electronic, ambient, and spacemusic
at the beginning, an eclectic mix of genres in the middle, and winds
up with Progressive Rock.  WMUH's web site is
http://muhlenberg.edu/wmuh


======================================================================
All times are EDT/GMT-4.

Listen on-line to WDIY at http://wdiy.org and click LISTEN or go
directly to: http://rm1.refugemedia.com/ramgen/encoder/wdiy.rm

Listen on-line to WMUH at http://www.muhlenberg.edu/wmuh and click the
REAL AUDIO link or go directly to:
rtsp://helix.muhlenberg.edu:554/broadcast/live.rm

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr  3 18:38:04 2008
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Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 20:38:01 +0200 (CEST)
From: rune fagereng <rune_fagereng@yahoo.no>
Subject: sooperlooper - installing it
To: loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com
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Hi !

I have downloaded Sooperlooper - and It shows in
ableton under plugin -so I drags it on to a track -
but Sooperlooper dont open. Whats wrong ? 

best regards Rune F.  


      _________________________________________________________
Alt i ett. Få Yahoo! Mail med adressekartotek, kalender og
notisblokk. http://no.mail.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr  3 18:58:21 2008
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Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:58:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT-SUPER LATE POST to MULTI-effects..
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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cool Scott do you have a link of this picks? i love
looking at guitarrists tool fetishism!
Luis




> > and i was looking at pics of vernon reid's recent
> gigs w/ the free form funky freqs, and w/ his setup
> (which looks massive) he has a vg-99 mounted on a
> stand. so he's using it.

www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.  
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr  3 19:34:20 2008
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Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 12:34:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT-SUPER LATE POST to MULTI-effects..(nova system quick review)
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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by the way i was just testing the new TC electronics
Nova system which is still siting in my room but will
be sent back tomorrow.
I am amazed of how conservative and how crappy and
boring the efxs of this unit are considering its price
tag.
so i will go into it very briefly cause i gotta go
drink some beer after dealing with it.
First the positive:it seems very well built,friendly
interface,nice looking screen and the whole unit is
quite transparent and doesnt seem to color your
sound.Also the analog drive and distortion do sound
like an overdrive or distortion pedal without any of
tha digital fizz and hizz.
Big led buttons(although the big flashing tempo light
can get on my nerves)well spaced to trigger,bank
scrolling is achieved by holding buttons up and down
and you have the main efxs available,you can use
stompbox mode or preset mode.You can run the efx in
serial,semi parallel or parallel etc.But you can only
control one efx with an exp or vol. pedal.
But the pitch efxs...big dissapointment they all track
bad compared to the boss units,the octaver does a good
job if you play single lines but try playing 2 and you
get a rotten pizza!also the pitch shifter on my old
roland GP100 unit could shift and transpose the guitar
and you could play chords without mush but this thing
you can forget about it!The intelligent pitch shifter
dont even bother is nothing new compared to what is
outhtere for a lot less money and it doesnt track well
either...
no reverse,no leslie rotary speaker,no univibe,no
exp.pedal,just a box with a 700.-eur. price tag which
has plain average extra clean 80īs sounding efx,even
the so called analog and tape delays sound very much
alike with no character and trying to get dirt out of
them is useless! stick to your pedals guys,the dl4 has
attitude in comparison and my little micro pog tracks
like no other!you are better off getting a boss ME-50
whos efx are better and cost a third of it!
Luis





--- scott hansen <evanpeewee@yahoo.com> wrote:

> to the person looking for some other multi-effects
> options (although why since you had an eventide unit
> i can't imagine)...anyway...was doing some reading
> of reviews recently and 2 units that seem to be the
> "she-bang" in recent multi-effects supposedly:
> 
> 1. the line 6 POD v.3-supposed to have options for 2
> sets of processing at once (from what i understand)
> 
> 2. the roland VG-99-similar -to above in that it has
> routing options that multiple amps &/or effects can
> be used at once.
> 
> and i was looking at pics of vernon reid's recent
> gigs w/ the free form funky freqs, and w/ his setup
> (which looks massive) he has a vg-99 mounted on a
> stand. so he's using it. i remember guitar player
> had an advanced review late last yr of vg-99-said it
> had options of running 2 different amp models w/
> multiple-effects- they said something about using
> flanger w/ tremolo w/ filter w/ delay options and
> wacky reverb-and the sounds you could get....they
> gave it a good review i remember.
> so some gear to look into for you....
> 
> my funny comment was while reading the vg-99 review
> is that w/ my set up of zoom g2 into a digitech
> rp150, i can have 2 amp models (plus distortion box
> models) w/ loads of wacky effects (i think of it as
> budget adrian belew's 80's rack of analog
> doom)--there are funny textures you can get w/
> running a mesa rectifier model into an acoustic
> model w/ large reverb into small reverb,etc...and my
> set up cost 200$ vs the 1000$ vg-99. granted i know
> it does all kinds of pu modeling and has stereo
> options etc,...oh well....
> s---
> 
> 
> 
>        
> ---------------------------------
> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one
> month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.


www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.  
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr  3 22:13:10 2008
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From: "Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill" <rs@moinlabs.de>
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Subject: OT-SUPER LATE POST to MULTI-effects..
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Just chiming in here...just got the Line6 Pod X3 Live the other day and will
post some more detailed review soon.

Just some quick info right now:
	* As always, I like the amp and cabinet models
	* Most of their stomp box models are also there, but no looper
	* minimum routing flexibility
	* lots of connections
	* no MIDI sync
	* microphone in, but no phantom power
	* two independent processing paths (which can be used on the same
input or on two instruments independently)
	* full set of both guitar and bass amp/cabinet models

As a quick summary: Line6 has followed its tradition of making something
great, then falling short of perfection in some tiny details.

Stay tuned for a more throughout review!

	Rainer


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr  4 02:20:56 2008
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Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 22:06:44 -0400
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info at zoekeating wrote:

> p.s. My next performance is at the NASA Ames Research Center on April 
> 12th for the World Space Party.
> http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/events/2008/yuris_night/
> http://bayarea.yurisnight.net/
> 

Every once in awhile, NASA does something inexplicably hip. Jane Ira 
Bloom. Laurie Andersen. And now you. Ames had better be careful, or 
they're going to destroy our reputation as tasteless nerds with pocket 
protectors.

Brian


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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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Brian,

LOL, after Different Skies 2006, your nerd reputation was shot, dude ...

("Looperaltive? Damn you, Brian!")

I've a friend who teaches Art History at the Museum School of the MFA,
Houston. He is British and originally came over to do illustration
work for NASA. On his green card, he was described as ... wait for it
... "Alien Space Artist."

Best,

Dennis

On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 10:06 PM, Brian Good <bsgood@adelphia.net> wrote:
> info at zoekeating wrote:
>
>
> > p.s. My next performance is at the NASA Ames Research Center on April 12th
> for the World Space Party.
> > http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/events/2008/yuris_night/
> > http://bayarea.yurisnight.net/
> >
> >
>
>  Every once in awhile, NASA does something inexplicably hip. Jane Ira Bloom.
> Laurie Andersen. And now you. Ames had better be careful, or they're going
> to destroy our reputation as tasteless nerds with pocket protectors.
>
>  Brian
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr  4 10:32:00 2008
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References: <70f68b660804021546h850ff9bi32779b4685ef9ee6@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Merging KP3 Loop Layers
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 12:24:46 +0200
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Isn't it possible with the new OS to put the volume of D to zero? And then 
crossfade A,B,C <-> D with the edit function to keep a constant volume?

Ben.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <holotone@gmail.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 12:46 AM
Subject: Merging KP3 Loop Layers


>A consistent problem I've had ever since I've began using a Korg KP3 as my
> primary compositional and looping tool is the tricky business of merging
> separate layers. As you may know, the KP3 has 4 sample banks, all of which
> by default loop beautifully. When it comes to, say, merging Banks A, B, 
> and
> C over to the D bank (to free up the space for more layering), the typical
> approach I've always taken is entering "Sample All" mode (shift+Sample),
> selecting bank D while A, B, and C are playing, and recording them as 
> merged
> on D. The rub, of course, is that banks A, B, and C continue to loop AFTER 
> D
> completes the merge, meaning I have to be lightning quick simultaneously
> disabling banks A, B, and C JUST after D finishes it's record cycle (to
> avoid a "drop" at the end of D's merged version) while simultaneously not
> letting A, B, and C continue playing as D starts up (which results in the
> same sound being played over the top of itself, with 2x the volume and 2x
> the distortion). I've gotten pretty good with practice, but there's always
> that perceivable microsecond "jump" in level and distortion when merging, 
> as
> I tend to err on the side of safety to avoid the aforementioned "drop".
>
> Is there some feature I'm overlooking that will selectively stop the 
> source
> sample banks playing the moment the merged version begins, or am I just
> going to have to keep on with practice, practice, practice?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -- 
> ~cole
> http://holotone.net/
> 


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr  4 14:50:14 2008
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Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 10:47:05 -0500
From: Bill Fox <billyfox@soundscapes.us>
Subject: Galactic Travels Playlist #573 for March 27,
 2008 (LAST WEEK's PLAYLIST) and #574 for April 3, 2008 (THIS WEEK'S PLAYLIST)
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
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(See below for this week's playlist.)

http://wdiy.org/programs/gt/playlists/2008/080327.html
(LAST WEEK's PLAYLIST)

Galactic Travels is an electronic, ambient, and space music show, that
airs each Thursday at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem,
PA, 93.9 FM in Easton, PA and Phillipsburg, NJ, 93.7 FM in Fogelsville
and Trexlertown, and webcasting on the internet.  WDIY also broadcasts
in Digital HD at 88.1 FM.

                Show #573                March 27, 2008

RECAP:
On this show, I concluded the month-long focus on Gert Emmens.  The
Featured CD at Midnight was "A Boy's World" on Groove Unlimited records.

Gert Emmens: http://wdiy.org/programs/gt/playlists/2008/focus.html#mar


PLAYLIST:

11:04 pm
ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
Kevin Braheny        Starflight 1 *       Galaxies (Hearts of Space)
ARC                  Departed             Fracture (DiN)
Mark Jenkins         Moonbeams            Ghosts of Mars(Ricochet Dream)
Mark Jenkins         Something Dancing    Ghosts of Mars(Ricochet Dream)
                       In the Darkness
Mark Jenkins         Alien Nation         Ghosts of Mars(Ricochet Dream)
Mark Jenkins         Phobos and Deimos    Ghosts of Mars(Ricochet Dream)
                       Dancing
Voide                Evolution            Voide (none)
VA [Create]          Choralis System *    Awakenings 2007 Volume 1 "New
                                            Worlds" (AmbientLive)
A Produce            The Clearing         The Clearing (Trance Port)
Gert Emmens          School's Out         Tale of the Warlock (Groove)

12:00 am
ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
Gert Emmens          Gaming Part 1:       Tale of the Warlock (Groove)
                       Battles Are Won and Lost
Gert Emmens          Life Around the      Tale of the Warlock (Groove)
                       Sand Castle
Gert Emmens          Gaming Part 2: The   Tale of the Warlock (Groove)
                       Quest
Gert Emmens          Adolescant Behaviour Tale of the Warlock (Groove)
Gert Emmens          Nothing Lasts        Tale of the Warlock (Groove)
                       Forever

1:00 am

 * = excerpt
VA = Various Artists (compilation)
++ = Advance CDR from Artist
-- = Background music under interview


NEXT SHOW:
On the next Galactic Travels, I'll begin a month-long focus on <a 
href="focus.html#apr">Create</a>.
The Featured CD at Midnight will be "Kindred Spirits," a self-released
title.

=======================================================================

http://wdiy.org/programs/gt/playlists/2008/080403.html
(THIS WEEK'S PLAYLIST)

Galactic Travels is an electronic, ambient, and space music show, that
airs each Thursday at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem,
PA, 93.9 FM in Easton, PA and Phillipsburg, NJ, 93.7 FM in Fogelsville
and Trexlertown, and webcasting on the internet.  WDIY also broadcasts
in Digital HD at 88.1 FM.

                Show #574                April 3, 2008

RECAP:
On this show, I started a month-long focus on Create.  The Featured CD
at Midnight was "Kindred Spirits," a self-released title.

Create: http://wdiy.org/programs/gt/playlists/2008/focus.html#apr


PLAYLIST:

11:04 pm
ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
Kevin Braheny        Starflight 1 *       Galaxies (Hearts of Space)
Galactic Anthems     Confrontation in     Semper Fidelity (none)
                       the Cave
Ricochet Gathering   Hyperthermophiles    Yellowstone 2007 (Ricochet
                                            Dream)
Rich and Boddy       Depth Charge         React (DiN)
John Christian       Bohunt Sabotage *    Bohunt Sabotage (none)
Create               Kindred Spirits      Kindred Spirits (none)

12:00 am
ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
Create               Kindred Spirits      Kindred Spirits (none)
                       (conclusion)
Create               Biospherical         Kindred Spirits (none)
                       Remixed Imagery
Create               Secret Place         Kindred Spirits (none)

1:00 am

 * = excerpt
VA = Various Artists (compilation)
++ = Advance CDR from Artist
-- = Background music under interview


NEXT SHOW:
On the next Galactic Travels, I'll continue the month-long focus on
Create.  The Featured CD at Midnight will be "Reflections from the Inner
Light" on Groove Unlimited Records.

Bill
=======================================================================
Host of Galactic Travels, an electronic, ambient, and space music
show, Thursdays at 11:04 pm EDT (GMT-4:00) on WDIY 88.1 FM in Allentown
and Bethlehem, 93.9 FM in Easton and Phillipsburg, and on 93.7 FM in
Trexlertown and Fogelsville.  WDIY also broadcasts in HD Digital Radio
on 88.1 FM.
Galactic Travels web site: http://galactictravels.info
MySpace: http://myspace.com/galactictravels
RSS News Feed: http://wdiy.org/programs/gt/rss/enews.xml
Podcasts: http://wdiy.org/programs/gt/rss/gt.xml
Listen on-line to WDIY at http://wdiy.org and click on the LISTEN link
or go directly to: http://rm1.refugemedia.com/ramgen/encoder/wdiy.rm
To subscribe to the galactic-travels mailing list, click on [Join This
Group!] at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/galactic-travels
Playlists are also published at http://billfox.blogspot.com
RSS (2.0) feed from http://billfox.blogspot.com/rss.xml
Atom (0.3) feed from http://billfox.blogspot.com/atom.xml

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr  4 15:57:01 2008
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From: darren perry <darrencperry@live.com>
To: <loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Another research paper!
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 15:51:59 +0000
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--_820ae0b4-ceb5-4cd6-abff-f6f588587060_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
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Hi all,

I'm new to this list but have been hanging around Loopers Delight for a few=
 months now. As part of my undergraduate thesis (Dartington College of Arts=
, Devon, UK) I'm researching Looping and Live Looping and would love to get=
 some feedback on my writings.

My paper is quite short (6000) and I don't intend to get bogged down in the=
 history of Looping, Geoff Smith has already done a great job at that. My p=
aper will consist of an introduction to the technology for the absolute beg=
inner followed by a look at some important artists around at the moment. Th=
en to finish I want to cover some topics such as the "International Live Lo=
oping Movement" and Live Looping as genre.

Below is something I started on today for the last section, any feedback gr=
eatly appreciated!

-------------

Draft musings on the "International Live Looping Movement' and Live Looping=
 as a Genre:

>From reading through discussions between Kim Flint, Rick Walker, Matthias G=
rob, Andre LaFosse, Geoff Smith, Richard Zvonar, Suart Wyatt and more, I've=
 written the following as a rough draft for a section of my research paper.=
 Please feel free to challenge anything I say, a discussion on these issues=
 will only help me!


<----------

Many people consider looping devices to be instruments in their own right, =
therefore the terms Looper or Live Looper refers to a musician who 'plays' =
a looping device. The term percussionist is widely used for anyone playing =
a percussion instrument regardless of the style or genre however when label=
ing all loop artists as such there is some amount of resistance.=20

The image conjured by the word percussionist or guitarist is that of someon=
e playing an instrument, the instrument makes sounds and music as the perso=
n plays it. However to say that a Looper plays a Looping device means somet=
hing different because the looping device relies on sound being created ind=
ependently of the device. The device then treats the sound in various ways =
as it is 'played'.=20

In musical terms although there are often similarities between the way two =
different Loopers sound, the outcome relies heavily on the type of sound th=
at is input into the device. Thus the looping musician's style or genre is =
the sum of the original input sound and the way it is altered through a loo=
ping device.

The music that results from the use of Looping, however original and or com=
plex in its creation and performance, still relies heavily on the original =
sounds that are used, therefore it takes an original input, as well as orig=
inal use of looping technology, to create a music that would stand in an or=
iginal musical genre or style.

<--- This last bit may heed critical responses --->

When listening to music that utilises looping technology extracted from its=
 live context, often the looping element can be disregarded. If unaware tha=
t a musician is using looping technology, which is quite possible if hearin=
g the music for the first time on the radio or CD, the looping technology w=
ill be irrelevant to the listener. In this sense the looping technology can=
 be compared to the use of sequencing or multi-track recording software pac=
kages. The main separation between this technology and looping technology i=
s its application in live performance. This is where the looping technology=
 is said to be played, because the performance incorporates the control of =
it as an integral part.

The question then is a matter of precedence. Do the methods and tools used =
take precedence over the music produced with them? This depends entirely on=
 what attracts a listener to a particular music. [more research into musica=
l aesthetics and marketing...?]

----------->

Thanks for reading!

Darren Perry

_________________________________________________________________
Win 100=92s of Virgin Experience days with BigSnapSearch.com
http://www.bigsnapsearch.com=

--_820ae0b4-ceb5-4cd6-abff-f6f588587060_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<style>
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma
}
</style>
</head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div style=3D"text-align: left;">Hi all,<br><br>I=
'm new to this list but have been hanging around Loopers Delight for a few =
months now. As part of my undergraduate thesis (Dartington College of Arts,=
 Devon, UK) I'm researching Looping and Live Looping and would love to get =
some feedback on my writings.<br><br>My paper is quite short (6000) and I d=
on't intend to get bogged down in the history of Looping, Geoff Smith has a=
lready done a great job at that. My paper will consist of an introduction t=
o the technology for the absolute beginner followed by a look at some impor=
tant artists around at the moment. Then to finish I want to cover some topi=
cs such as the "International Live Looping Movement" and Live Looping as ge=
nre.<br><br>Below is something I started on today for the last section, any=
 feedback greatly appreciated!<br><br>-------------<br><br>Draft musings on=
 the "International Live Looping Movement' and Live Looping as a Genre:<br>=
<br>From reading through discussions between Kim Flint, Rick Walker, Matthi=
as Grob, Andre LaFosse, Geoff Smith, Richard Zvonar, Suart Wyatt and more, =
I've written the following as a rough draft for a section of my research pa=
per. Please feel free to challenge anything I say, a discussion on these is=
sues will only help me!<br><br><br>&lt;----------<br><br>Many people consid=
er looping devices to be instruments in their own right, therefore the term=
s Looper or Live Looper refers to a musician who 'plays' a looping device. =
The term percussionist is widely used for anyone playing a percussion instr=
ument regardless of the style or genre however when labeling all loop artis=
ts as such there is some amount of resistance. <br><br>The image conjured b=
y the word percussionist or guitarist is that of someone playing an instrum=
ent, the instrument makes sounds and music as the person plays it. However =
to say that a Looper plays a Looping device means something different becau=
se the looping device relies on sound being created independently of the de=
vice. The device then treats the sound in various ways as it is 'played'. <=
br><br>In musical terms although there are often similarities between the w=
ay two different Loopers sound, the outcome relies heavily on the type of s=
ound that is input into the device. Thus the looping musician's style or ge=
nre is the sum of the original input sound and the way it is altered throug=
h a looping device.<br><br>The music that results from the use of Looping, =
however original and or complex in its creation and performance, still reli=
es heavily on the original sounds that are used, therefore it takes an orig=
inal input, as well as original use of looping technology, to create a musi=
c that would stand in an original musical genre or style.<br><br>&lt;--- Th=
is last bit may heed critical responses ---&gt;<br><br>When listening to mu=
sic that utilises looping technology extracted from its live context, often=
 the looping element can be disregarded. If unaware that a musician is usin=
g looping technology, which is quite possible if hearing the music for the =
first time on the radio or CD, the looping technology will be irrelevant to=
 the listener. In this sense the looping technology can be compared to the =
use of sequencing or multi-track recording software packages. The main sepa=
ration between this technology and looping technology is its application in=
 live performance. This is where the looping technology is said to be playe=
d, because the performance incorporates the control of it as an integral pa=
rt.<br><br>The question then is a matter of precedence. Do the methods and =
tools used take precedence over the music produced with them? This depends =
entirely on what attracts a listener to a particular music. [more research =
into musical aesthetics and marketing...?]<br><br>-----------&gt;<br><br>Th=
anks for reading!<br><br>Darren Perry<br></div><br /><hr />News, Sports, En=
tertainment and Weather on your mobile.  <a href=3D'http://mobile.uk.msn.co=
m/pc/msn_content.aspx' target=3D'_new'>Text MSN to 63463 Now.</a></body>
</html>=

--_820ae0b4-ceb5-4cd6-abff-f6f588587060_--

From noc@gotmog.interstrada.net  Fri Apr  4 16:01:03 2008
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Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 18:29:41 +0300 (EEST)
Message-Id: <200804041529.m34FTf5F044330@gotmog.interstrada.net>
To: looparc@loopers-delight.com
Subject:  You've received A Hallmark E-Card!
From: "hallmark.com" <E-Cards@hallmark.com>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr  4 16:39:47 2008
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From: Daryl Shawn <highhorse@mhorse.com>
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I want to move to Britain, become a citizen, go to art school, become a 
professional illustrator, gain NASA contacts, apply for this job and 
then enter the States JUST so I can get one of those. That is priceless.

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com

> I've a friend who teaches Art History at the Museum School of the MFA,
> Houston. He is British and originally came over to do illustration
> work for NASA. On his green card, he was described as ... wait for it
> ... "Alien Space Artist."
>
> Best,
>
> Dennis

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr  4 17:29:46 2008
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From: "Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill" <rs@moinlabs.de>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: AW: HOW MANY LOOPS DO YOU USE SIMLUTANEOUSLY?
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 19:29:52 +0200
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Hey Rick,
 
> To me,   if you overdub different parts (as opposed to just 
> either doubling 
> or harmonizing an
> individual loop) in a piece of music it doesn't really matter 
> whether they are all
> in one loop (the DL-4 or EDP paradigm)   or have them running 

That makes perfect sense to me. So basically by that definition, everything
which is a separate part is another simulataneous loop. Although I even see
the problem to draw the line between "harmonizing" and "overdubbing a
different part".

But by that musical not tech definition, looped sequences in a MIDI
sequencer would count as simultaneous loops?

> How many loops do you tend to use in a piece of music.
> If there is such a thing as a typical Rainer Straschill set 
> up for a 'song'
> what would it be.

Let's see...there's drum and bass part, or chords part, and there's noodling
on top of it, which may also be a loop. But then again, if you listen e.g.
to "Fook Yew" on "Weird Specialist" (http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/16603(,
you have drums (MIDI), a synth percussion effects loop (sampler), bass
(MIDI), organ (MIDI - I believe), two guitars (Mobius) - that makes six.

Let's look at some of the material from "Neinnein auf dem kleinen Weg" -
typically drums (pattern sequencer) and up to four tracks (each with an
individual loop) of Repeater - so that's five or less.

I guess that's it. It starts with one and only very rarely goes beyond six,
but most of the time (I'm guessing above 90%) is in the two to four region.

	Rainer

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr  4 17:37:31 2008
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Yes, that's definitely an option, and one I haven't played with as I've only
been using the new OS for about a week now - Thanks for the reminder,
though.

What I was more hoping for was an option that would disable the source banks
AND current effect as soon as overdub sampling to a new bank was
completed...

~c

On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 4:24 AM, Ben <benoitruelle@yahoo.fr> wrote:

> Isn't it possible with the new OS to put the volume of D to zero? And then
> crossfade A,B,C <-> D with the edit function to keep a constant volume?
>
> Ben.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <holotone@gmail.com>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 12:46 AM
> Subject: Merging KP3 Loop Layers
>
>
>
>  A consistent problem I've had ever since I've began using a Korg KP3 as
> > my
> > primary compositional and looping tool is the tricky business of merging
> > separate layers. As you may know, the KP3 has 4 sample banks, all of
> > which
> > by default loop beautifully. When it comes to, say, merging Banks A, B,
> > and
> > C over to the D bank (to free up the space for more layering), the
> > typical
> > approach I've always taken is entering "Sample All" mode (shift+Sample),
> > selecting bank D while A, B, and C are playing, and recording them as
> > merged
> > on D. The rub, of course, is that banks A, B, and C continue to loop
> > AFTER D
> > completes the merge, meaning I have to be lightning quick simultaneously
> > disabling banks A, B, and C JUST after D finishes it's record cycle (to
> > avoid a "drop" at the end of D's merged version) while simultaneously
> > not
> > letting A, B, and C continue playing as D starts up (which results in
> > the
> > same sound being played over the top of itself, with 2x the volume and
> > 2x
> > the distortion). I've gotten pretty good with practice, but there's
> > always
> > that perceivable microsecond "jump" in level and distortion when
> > merging, as
> > I tend to err on the side of safety to avoid the aforementioned "drop".
> >
> > Is there some feature I'm overlooking that will selectively stop the
> > source
> > sample banks playing the moment the merged version begins, or am I just
> > going to have to keep on with practice, practice, practice?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > --
> > ~cole
> > http://holotone.net/
> >
> >
>
>


-- 
~cole
http://holotone.net/

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Yes, that&#39;s definitely an option, and one I haven&#39;t played with as I&#39;ve only been using the new OS for about a week now - Thanks for the reminder, though.<br><br>What I was more hoping for was an option that would disable the source banks AND current effect as soon as overdub sampling to a new bank was completed...<br>
<br>~c<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 4:24 AM, Ben &lt;<a href="mailto:benoitruelle@yahoo.fr">benoitruelle@yahoo.fr</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Isn&#39;t it possible with the new OS to put the volume of D to zero? And then crossfade A,B,C &lt;-&gt; D with the edit function to keep a constant volume?<br>
<br>
Ben.<br>
<br>
----- Original Message ----- From: &lt;<a href="mailto:holotone@gmail.com" target="_blank">holotone@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: &lt;<a href="mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" target="_blank">Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 12:46 AM<br>
Subject: Merging KP3 Loop Layers<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
A consistent problem I&#39;ve had ever since I&#39;ve began using a Korg KP3 as my<br>
primary compositional and looping tool is the tricky business of merging<br>
separate layers. As you may know, the KP3 has 4 sample banks, all of which<br>
by default loop beautifully. When it comes to, say, merging Banks A, B, and<br>
C over to the D bank (to free up the space for more layering), the typical<br>
approach I&#39;ve always taken is entering &quot;Sample All&quot; mode (shift+Sample),<br>
selecting bank D while A, B, and C are playing, and recording them as merged<br>
on D. The rub, of course, is that banks A, B, and C continue to loop AFTER D<br>
completes the merge, meaning I have to be lightning quick simultaneously<br>
disabling banks A, B, and C JUST after D finishes it&#39;s record cycle (to<br>
avoid a &quot;drop&quot; at the end of D&#39;s merged version) while simultaneously not<br>
letting A, B, and C continue playing as D starts up (which results in the<br>
same sound being played over the top of itself, with 2x the volume and 2x<br>
the distortion). I&#39;ve gotten pretty good with practice, but there&#39;s always<br>
that perceivable microsecond &quot;jump&quot; in level and distortion when merging, as<br>
I tend to err on the side of safety to avoid the aforementioned &quot;drop&quot;.<br>
<br>
Is there some feature I&#39;m overlooking that will selectively stop the source<br>
sample banks playing the moment the merged version begins, or am I just<br>
going to have to keep on with practice, practice, practice?<br>
<br>
Thanks!<br>
<br>
-- <br>
~cole<br>
<a href="http://holotone.net/" target="_blank">http://holotone.net/</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>~cole<br><a href="http://holotone.net/">http://holotone.net/</a>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr  4 17:41:35 2008
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From: "Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill" <rs@moinlabs.de>
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Subject: AW: Another research paper!
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Hi Darren,

first a hint to "new to this list" persons in general (and to you). We
normally prefer plain text posts (as opposed to HTML content). 

(main part)
although you made use of capital spelling, it was not always clear to me if
you referred to the device or the musician when you mentioned "Looper". I
would suggest that you begin with a clear disambiguation at the beginning
(e.g. "looper" is the device and "Looper" the musician).

(the "critical response" bit)
Although you use the word "often" in your opening sequence in this
paragraph, the remainder does not make that clear. It seems to me that the
message here is that looping technology (as an instrument or as a skill)
becomes only relevant when used live, as using it will give you the same
result as using a multi-track recorder or sequencer.

While this is true for a lot of artists, and most of the looping art could
also be done in very cumbersome ways using a DAW, I see a difference here
between the "looper for multi-part/multi-instrumental" approach and the
"whacky looping", where the looper is not only used to simply play back
parts of the performance as a backdrop for soloing, rather is used to create
new sounds and textures (think Andre LaFosse).

For that reason, I would either rephrase that last paragraph to clearly make
that destinction, or to drop it completely.

Best,

	Rainer

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Of course, the correct question is: HOW MANY LOOPS DO YOU WANT TO USE 
SIMULTANEOUSLY?

The answer is of course, 1 more than your looper will allow. 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr  4 18:13:13 2008
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Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 11:13:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: scott hansen <evanpeewee@yahoo.com>
Subject: OT: vernon reid's setup 
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i believe i saw pics of vernon reid's set up from his myspace.com site, and i think there was also some pics on the freeform funky freqs site (the new improv band he's in-i'm awaiting that album to arrive)

i also recently got the living colour live in philly dvd-some good guitar playing on that (and bass!)-also in vernon's rig is an apple powerbook - don't remember seeing him use it during the L-C dvd, but he may have been off camera-the bummer thing about that dvd is its only an hr long-i read on the net that the concert was 2hrs plus-would have loved to see 2 hrs of him playing....

s---


       
---------------------------------
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
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i believe i saw pics of vernon reid's set up from his myspace.com site, and i think there was also some pics on the freeform funky freqs site (the new improv band he's in-i'm awaiting that album to arrive)<br><br>i also recently got the living colour live in philly dvd-some good guitar playing on that (and bass!)-also in vernon's rig is an apple powerbook - don't remember seeing him use it during the L-C dvd, but he may have been off camera-the bummer thing about that dvd is its only an hr long-i read on the net that the concert was 2hrs plus-would have loved to see 2 hrs of him playing....<br><br>s---<br><br><p>&#32;



      <hr size=1>You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=47523/*http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com">one month of Blockbuster Total Access</a>, No Cost.
--0-648171481-1207332789=:78274--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr  4 18:46:11 2008
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Rainer thanks for your response!

> first a hint to "new to this list" persons in general (and to you). We
> normally prefer plain text posts (as opposed to HTML content).

Forgot that hotmail doesn't do plain text by default, hopefully this is sor=
ted in this mail...

> (main part)
> although you made use of capital spelling, it was not always clear to me =
if
> you referred to the device or the musician when you mentioned "Looper". I
> would suggest that you begin with a clear disambiguation at the beginning
> (e.g. "looper" is the device and "Looper" the musician).

Thanks for spotting this, I'll define my use of the terms at least. An atte=
mpt to define the terms generally might be fraught with opposition...=20

> (the "critical response" bit)
> Although you use the word "often" in your opening sequence in this
> paragraph, the remainder does not make that clear. It seems to me that th=
e
> message here is that looping technology (as an instrument or as a skill)
> becomes only relevant when used live, as using it will give you the same
> result as using a multi-track recorder or sequencer.
>
> While this is true for a lot of artists, and most of the looping art coul=
d
> also be done in very cumbersome ways using a DAW, I see a difference here
> between the "looper for multi-part/multi-instrumental" approach and the
> "whacky looping", where the looper is not only used to simply play back
> parts of the performance as a backdrop for soloing, rather is used to cre=
ate
> new sounds and textures (think Andre LaFosse).
>
> For that reason, I would either rephrase that last paragraph to clearly m=
ake
> that destinction, or to drop it completely.

I think it was the thought of LaFosse that made me less confident about tha=
t last bit. I think maybe saying that all looped music could be produced on=
 recordings without looping technology is probably the wrong phrasing. Mayb=
e emphasising that without knowledge of the technology a listener only has =
the music to go by. I'm not sure if there is a point I'm trying to make her=
e yet...

I may post again with updates etc.

Thanks again for your response!

Darren

_________________________________________________________________
The next generation of Windows Live is here
http://www.windowslive.co.uk/get-live=

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From: "Dennis Moser" <sinsofmachaut@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: HOW MANY LOOPS DO YOU USE SIMLUTANEOUSLY?
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ROTFLMAO!

YES! ALWAYS just one more loop ...

Thanks, Bob for ending my week with what HAS to be the fitting final
comment on what has been an adventure of a thread!

Dennis

On 4/4/08, Bob Amstadt <bobld@amstadt.com> wrote:
> Of course, the correct question is: HOW MANY LOOPS DO YOU WANT TO USE
> SIMULTANEOUSLY?
>
>  The answer is of course, 1 more than your looper will allow.
>

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Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 13:23:52 -0700
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Subject: OT? Laptops on the PC side
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Okay, first off, thanks for the previous round of laptop advice.  I would
love a MacBook Pro.  We'll see how that shakes out, but in the meantime, how
about recommendations for a PC laptop for use with live audio and live video
processing (probably not at the same time).

What I'm specifically looking at is whether or not I can get a comparable
system to the MacBooks that is as stable and useful for audio and visual
apps for less cash.

Basically I'm still up in the air and trying to figure out which side I'll
be coming down on (but I will be going the laptop route, a weekend of
hauling gear and trying to troubleshoot the mess or wires and connections
just really knocked me into the arms of the laptop (or at least the desire
for one))

Thanks,

Kevin

-- 

Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.

- Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)

Sound and Vision: http://www.minds-eye.org

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Okay, first off, thanks for the previous round of laptop advice.&nbsp; I would love a MacBook Pro.&nbsp; We&#39;ll see how that shakes out, but in the meantime, how about recommendations for a PC laptop for use with live audio and live video processing (probably not at the same time).&nbsp; <br>
<br>What I&#39;m specifically looking at is whether or not I can get a comparable system to the MacBooks that is as stable and useful for audio and visual apps for less cash.<br><br>Basically I&#39;m still up in the air and trying to figure out which side I&#39;ll be coming down on (but I will be going the laptop route, a weekend of hauling gear and trying to troubleshoot the mess or wires and connections just really knocked me into the arms of the laptop (or at least the desire for one))<br>
<br>Thanks,<br><br>Kevin<br clear="all"><br>-- <br><br>Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a<br>form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.<br><br>- Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)<br>
<br>Sound and Vision: <a href="http://www.minds-eye.org">http://www.minds-eye.org</a>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr  4 20:36:25 2008
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Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 22:36:24 +0200
From: "Per Boysen" <perboysen@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 10:23 PM, Kevin Cheli-Colando
<billowhead@gmail.com> wrote:
> how
> about recommendations for a PC laptop for use with live audio and live video
> processing (probably not at the same time).


Stay away from shared video memory.
Get plenty of RAM, 2 - 4 GB.
Get a firewire or PCMCIA based audio interface.
Make sure the drivers for the audio interface works with Vista.
Make sure the software you plan to run works with Vista.

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com

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Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 14:01:30 -0700
From: "Art Simon" <simart@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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My only suggestion would be to look at the forums for the specific
software and hardware interface you'll want to use with the laptop,
and make sure you have return priviledges : )

It appears that many laptop usb and firewire ports aren't up to the
demands of audio.

On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 1:23 PM, Kevin Cheli-Colando
<billowhead@gmail.com> wrote:
> Okay, first off, thanks for the previous round of laptop advice.  I would
> love a MacBook Pro.  We'll see how that shakes out, but in the meantime, how
> about recommendations for a PC laptop for use with live audio and live video
> processing (probably not at the same time).
>
> What I'm specifically looking at is whether or not I can get a comparable
> system to the MacBooks that is as stable and useful for audio and visual
> apps for less cash.
>
> Basically I'm still up in the air and trying to figure out which side I'll
> be coming down on (but I will be going the laptop route, a weekend of
> hauling gear and trying to troubleshoot the mess or wires and connections
> just really knocked me into the arms of the laptop (or at least the desire
> for one))
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kevin
>
> --
>
> Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
> form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.
>
> - Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)
>
> Sound and Vision: http://www.minds-eye.org



-- 
Art Simon
simart@null.net
art.simon.tripod.com
myspace [dot] com/artsimon

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Sorry to OT in here, but I know some of you use Digitech TSR-24's.

I just recieved a unit from the US, originally in very good condition.
Shit happens: It has had an accident somewhere during transit.
While the front and rack ears are somewhat bent with broken plactics, 
the state of the damages suggests the electronics most likely is ok, 
Likewise, the bendings seems to only have locked-in on the data wheel.
All other parts, like buttons and pots, are freely moveable.

Seller and I are working on resolving the matter with both postals.
We/I may simply recieve goods damages, and the unit may be repairable.

So, does anyone happen to have a complete front plate, maybe from an 
otherwise defective unit?

Feel free to email me directly.

-- 
rgds,
van Sinn

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Subject: MARK YOUR CALENDARS: 3rd Annual Boise Experimental Music Festival (May 28 - June 1)
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The 3rd Annual Boise Experimental Music Festival=20
May 28 - June 1, 2008

 The Boise Experimental Music Festival is beginning to earn the =
reputation of being one of the most exciting and well executed creative =
music events in the world.  Now in its third year, the festival =
continues to evolve and feature an impressive array of performers from =
all over the world. This year, the festival runs from May 28 through =
June 1, 2008, and fans will come from all over to hear some of the =
finest and most cutting edge creative music artists on the planet. The =
talent and caliber of this year's performers will be spectacular. The =
event will also feature experimental film and the ground-breaking =
program, Kybermusik, coordinated by one of Germany's most inventive =
musicians, Rainer Straschill. The Kybermusik program will give festival =
performers the opportunity to perform live with musicians all over the =
world via the internet. =20

Obtain more information on the festival at www.boisemusicians.com/BEMF-3 =
 or http://www.myspace.com/boiseexperimentalmusicfestival

SCHEDULE

May 28 (Wednesday), 7:00 - 8:30pm
Museum of Eastern Idaho
Eastern Idaho Experimental Music Festival=20
300 S. Capital Ave
Idaho Falls, ID 83402
208-524-7777=20
$10 at the door
http://www.theartmuseum.org/=20

May 29 (Thursday), 7-11pm
3 Shapes Aikido
1512 north 10th street=20
Boise, ID 83702
$5.00 at the door
http://www.3shapesaikido.com/=20

May 30 (Friday), 8:30pm - Midnight
El Korah Shrine Center=20
1118 W Idaho
Boise, ID 83701
$7.00 at the door=20
http://www.elkorah.org

May 31 (Saturday), 1-7pm
El Korah Shrine Center=20
1118 W Idaho
Boise, ID 83701
$6.00 at the door=20
($10 will cover evening show as well)
http://www.elkorah.org

May 31 (Saturday), 1-5pm
The Record Exchange
1105 W Idaho St
Boise, ID 83702
FREE
http://www.buymusichere.net/stores/recordexchange/

May 31 (Saturday), 8:30pm - Midnight
El Korah Shrine Center=20
1118 W Idaho
Boise, ID 83701
$7.00 at the door=20
http://www.elkorah.org

June 1 (Sunday), 1-7pm
El Korah Shrine Center=20
1118 W Idaho
Boise, ID 83701
$6.00 at the door=20
http://www.elkorah.org


FESTIVAL PERFORMERS

Rainer Straschill=20
(Munich, Germany)
With financial support by the Federal Foreign Office and the Goethe =
Institut

Jim McAuley
(Los Angeles, CA, USA)

Tom Baker
(Seattle, WA, USA)

The Choir Boys (Jeff Kaiser & Andrew Pask)
(San Diego & Los Angeles, CA, USA)

The Deep End Ensemble
(Philadelphia, PA, USA)

Emily Hay & Motoko Honda=20
(Los Angeles, CA, USA)

Rob Wallace, Colter Frazier, & Jim Connolly
(Santa Barbara, CA, USA)

The Transhumans
(Ventura, CA, USA)

Robert Price, David Grollman, & Lucio Menegon
(New York, NY, USA)

Ted Killian
(Medford, OR, USA)

Thorrific
(Seattle, WA, USA)

Unicorn Feather (Elijah Jensen)
(Boise, ID, USA)

Gretchen Jude
(Boise, ID, USA)

Craig Green
(Idaho Falls, ID, USA)

Amy Vecchione=20
(Boise, ID, USA)

Jared Hallock
(Boise, ID, USA)

Krispen Hartung & Robert Sterling
(Boise, ID & Ventura, CA, USA)

Krispen Hartung, Brian McFadin, & Jared Hallock
(Boise, ID, USA)

Mike Blomquist
(Boise, ID, USA)

Emily Hay, Motoko Honda, & Krispen Hartung
(Los Angeles, CA & Boise, ID, USA)

Craig Green, & Krispen Hartung
(Los Angeles, CA & Boise, ID, USA)

Funding for BEMF was made possible by a grant from the=20
National Endowment for the Arts and the Idaho Commission on the Arts
=20
 
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML xmlns:st1 =3D "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns:o =
=3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3268" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff background=3D"">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>The 3rd Annual Boise =
Experimental Music=20
Festival <BR>May 28 - June 1, 2008</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;The Boise Experimental Music =
Festival is=20
beginning to earn the reputation of being one of the most exciting and =
well=20
executed creative music events in the world.&nbsp; Now in its third =
year, the=20
festival continues to evolve and feature an impressive array of =
performers from=20
all over the world. This year, the festival runs from May 28 through =
June 1,=20
2008, and fans will come from all over to hear some of the finest and =
most=20
cutting edge creative music artists on the planet. The talent and =
caliber of=20
this year=92s performers will be spectacular. The event will also =
feature=20
experimental film and the ground-breaking program, Kybermusik, =
coordinated by=20
one of Germany=92s most inventive musicians, Rainer Straschill. The =
Kybermusik=20
program will give festival performers the opportunity to perform live =
with=20
musicians all over the world via the internet.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Obtain more =

information on the festival at </FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.boisemusicians.com/BEMF-3"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>www.boisemusicians.com/BEMF-3</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;or </FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/boiseexperimentalmusicfestival"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://www.myspace.com/boiseexperimentalmusicfestival</FONT></A>=
</DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><STRONG>SCHEDULE</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>May 28 (Wednesday), 7:00 - =
8:30pm<BR>Museum of=20
Eastern Idaho<BR>Eastern Idaho Experimental Music Festival <BR>300 S. =
Capital=20
Ave<BR>Idaho Falls, ID 83402<BR>208-524-7777 <BR>$10 at the =
door<BR></FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.theartmuseum.org/"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://www.theartmuseum.org/</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>May 29 (Thursday), 7-11pm<BR>3 =
Shapes=20
Aikido<BR>1512 north 10th street <BR>Boise, ID 83702<BR>$5.00 at the=20
door<BR></FONT><A href=3D"http://www.3shapesaikido.com/"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://www.3shapesaikido.com/</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>=20
<BR><BR>May 30 (Friday), 8:30pm - Midnight<BR>El Korah Shrine Center =
<BR>1118 W=20
Idaho<BR>Boise, ID 83701<BR>$7.00 at the door <BR></FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.elkorah.org"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://www.elkorah.org</FONT></A></DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>May 31 (Saturday), 1-7pm<BR>El =
Korah Shrine=20
Center <BR>1118 W Idaho<BR>Boise, ID 83701<BR>$6.00 at the door <BR>($10 =
will=20
cover evening show as well)<BR></FONT><A =
href=3D"http://www.elkorah.org"><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>http://www.elkorah.org</FONT></A></DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>May 31 (Saturday), 1-5pm<BR>The =
Record=20
Exchange<BR>1105 W Idaho St<BR>Boise, ID 83702<BR>FREE<BR></FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.buymusichere.net/stores/recordexchange/"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://www.buymusichere.net/stores/recordexchange/</FONT></A></D=
IV>
<DIV><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>May 31 (Saturday), 8:30pm - =
Midnight<BR>El=20
Korah Shrine Center <BR>1118 W Idaho<BR>Boise, ID 83701<BR>$7.00 at the =
door=20
<BR></FONT><A href=3D"http://www.elkorah.org"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://www.elkorah.org</FONT></A></DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>June 1 (Sunday), 1-7pm<BR>El Korah =
Shrine=20
Center <BR>1118 W Idaho<BR>Boise, ID 83701<BR>$6.00 at the door =
<BR></FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.elkorah.org"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://www.elkorah.org</FONT></A></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><BR><BR><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><STRONG>FESTIVAL PERFORMERS</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rainer Straschill <BR>(Munich,=20
Germany)<BR><FONT size=3D1><EM>With financial support by the Federal =
Foreign=20
Office and the Goethe Institut</EM></FONT><BR><BR>Jim McAuley<BR>(Los =
Angeles,=20
CA, USA)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>Tom Baker<BR>(Seattle, WA, =
USA)<BR><BR>The=20
Choir Boys (Jeff Kaiser &amp; Andrew Pask)<BR>(San Diego &amp; Los =
Angeles, CA,=20
USA)<BR><BR>The Deep End Ensemble<BR>(Philadelphia, PA, =
USA)<BR><BR>Emily Hay=20
&amp; Motoko Honda <BR>(Los Angeles, CA, USA)</FONT></DIV><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>
<DIV><BR>Rob Wallace, Colter Frazier, &amp; Jim Connolly<BR>(Santa =
Barbara, CA,=20
USA)</DIV>
<DIV><BR>The Transhumans<BR>(Ventura, CA, USA)<BR><BR>Robert Price, =
David=20
Grollman, &amp; Lucio Menegon<BR>(New York, NY, USA)<BR><BR>Ted=20
Killian<BR>(Medford, OR, USA)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>Thorrific<BR>(Seattle, WA, =
USA)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>Unicorn Feather (Elijah =
Jensen)<BR>(Boise, ID,=20
USA)<BR><BR>Gretchen Jude<BR>(Boise, ID, USA)<BR><BR>Craig =
Green<BR>(Idaho=20
Falls, ID, USA)<BR><BR>Amy Vecchione <BR>(Boise, ID, USA)<BR><BR>Jared=20
Hallock<BR>(Boise, ID, USA)</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><BR>Krispen Hartung &amp; Robert Sterling<BR>(Boise, ID &amp; =
Ventura, CA,=20
USA)</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Krispen Hartung, Brian McFadin, &amp; Jared Hallock<BR>(Boise, =
ID,=20
USA)</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Mike Blomquist<BR>(Boise, ID, USA)</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Emily Hay, Motoko Honda, &amp; Krispen Hartung<BR>(Los Angeles, =
CA=20
&amp; Boise, ID, USA)</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Craig Green, &amp; Krispen Hartung<BR>(Los Angeles, CA &amp; =
Boise, ID,=20
USA)<BR><BR>Funding for BEMF was made possible by a grant from the =
<BR>National=20
Endowment for the Arts and the Idaho Commission on the=20
Arts<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr  5 08:11:01 2008
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Kevin Cheli-Colando wrote:
> Okay, first off, thanks for the previous round of laptop advice.  I 
> would love a MacBook Pro.  We'll see how that shakes out, but in the 
> meantime, how about recommendations for a PC laptop for use with live 
> audio and live video processing (probably not at the same time). 
> 
> What I'm specifically looking at is whether or not I can get a 
> comparable system to the MacBooks that is as stable and useful for audio 
> and visual apps for less cash.
> 

For audio, afaik winXP is still being used and Vista is not trusted.
(my only experience of Vista so far is seeing it run really slowly on a machine with 'only' 1GB of RAM)

...but may be different for visuals.

Sometimes there's problems with particular interfaces on particular machines, so it's better to copy someone else's working setup if possible.

If you want to use a Firewire audio interface, then not many laptops have the larger sized firewire socket which can be used to supply power to it.

andy butler  

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From: Bill Fox <billyfox@soundscapes.us>
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THE AM/FM SHOW ON WMUH:                      http://soundscapes.us/amfm
=======================================================================
My next stint on the AM/FM Show will be Saturday, April 5 at 6:00 am
(EDT/GMT-4).  That's less than two hours from now.  I will continue the
special on Sequences Electronic Music Magazine's sampler CDs.

Tune in to WMUH Allentown at 91.7 FM, broadcasting from the campus of
Muhlenberg College.  I alternate hosting the show with Bruce.  When I
am at the helm, the show features electronic, ambient, and spacemusic
at the beginning, an eclectic mix of genres in the middle, and winds
up with Progressive Rock.  WMUH's web site is
http://muhlenberg.edu/wmuh

Listen on-line to WMUH at http://www.muhlenberg.edu/wmuh and click the
REAL AUDIO link or go directly to:
rtsp://helix.muhlenberg.edu:554/broadcast/live.rm

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr  5 12:57:00 2008
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> > how
> > about recommendations for a PC laptop for use with live 
> audio and live 
> > video processing (probably not at the same time).
> 
> Stay away from shared video memory.
> Get plenty of RAM, 2 - 4 GB.
> Get a firewire or PCMCIA based audio interface.
> Make sure the drivers for the audio interface works with Vista.
> Make sure the software you plan to run works with Vista.

I would stay away from Vista as well for the time being. 
Anything more than 2GB will not make that much sense for a 32bit Windows OS,
so you might (see below) consider XP64.

Lots of (PC) laptops don't have firewire interfaces, and some of them have
some that don't work perfectly - try before you buy (with the audio
interface of your choice).

PCMCIA and support for it is slowly fading, so your best interface choice
would probably be firewire.

Re XP64: You'll need specific 64-bit drivers for any hardware device you use
- unless the driver is based on a generic driver which is part of the OS.
These are exceptions, so the "most of the time" rule is: check beforehand,
whether the hardware you're looking for has 64bit drivers. 

	Rainer

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr  5 14:00:49 2008
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Subject: RE: OT? Laptops on the PC side
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 06:54:07 -0700
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www.pcaudiolabs.com  has PC laptops that are optimized for audio/video.
Worth checking out to see their configurations.

 

Qua

 

From: Kevin Cheli-Colando [mailto:billowhead@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 1:24 PM
To: loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: OT? Laptops on the PC side

 

Okay, first off, thanks for the previous round of laptop advice.  I would
love a MacBook Pro.  We'll see how that shakes out, but in the meantime, how
about recommendations for a PC laptop for use with live audio and live video
processing (probably not at the same time).  

What I'm specifically looking at is whether or not I can get a comparable
system to the MacBooks that is as stable and useful for audio and visual
apps for less cash.

Basically I'm still up in the air and trying to figure out which side I'll
be coming down on (but I will be going the laptop route, a weekend of
hauling gear and trying to troubleshoot the mess or wires and connections
just really knocked me into the arms of the laptop (or at least the desire
for one))

Thanks,

Kevin

-- 

Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.

- Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)

Sound and Vision: http://www.minds-eye.org 


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"http://www.pcaudiolabs.com">www.pcaudiolabs.com</a>&nbsp;
has PC laptops that are optimized for audio/video.&nbsp; Worth checking =
out to see
their configurations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-family:"Lucida =
Calligraphy";color:#1F497D'>Qua<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Kevin =
Cheli-Colando
[mailto:billowhead@gmail.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 04, 2008 1:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> OT? Laptops on the PC side<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>Okay, first off, thanks for the previous round of =
laptop advice.&nbsp;
I would love a MacBook Pro.&nbsp; We'll see how that shakes out, but in =
the
meantime, how about recommendations for a PC laptop for use with live =
audio and
live video processing (probably not at the same time).&nbsp; <br>
<br>
What I'm specifically looking at is whether or not I can get a =
comparable
system to the MacBooks that is as stable and useful for audio and visual =
apps
for less cash.<br>
<br>
Basically I'm still up in the air and trying to figure out which side =
I'll be
coming down on (but I will be going the laptop route, a weekend of =
hauling gear
and trying to troubleshoot the mess or wires and connections just really
knocked me into the arms of the laptop (or at least the desire for =
one))<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Kevin<br clear=3Dall>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have =
a<br>
form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all =
trouble.<br>
<br>
- Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)<br>
<br>
Sound and Vision: <a =
href=3D"http://www.minds-eye.org">http://www.minds-eye.org</a>
<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

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Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 16:19:18 +0200
From: "Per Boysen" <perboysen@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: OT? Laptops on the PC side
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> From: Kevin Cheli-Colando [mailto:billowhead@gmail.com]

>  What I'm specifically looking at is whether or not I can get a comparable
> system to the MacBooks that is as stable and useful for audio and visual
> apps for less cash.

I just noticed an false presumtion in your question. MacBooks are
definitely not good for visual work, like video editing etc, because
they have the graphic function on the mobo and its memory shared with
the system. It might be that you were rather thinking about the
MacBook Pro model though? Because that on is good for video editing
and quite expensive. I'm not sure you could find any comparable
Windows only laptops that are cheaper though. But if you start to
looking at not comparable units you should be able to find something -
I'm mean, you can find it cheap if you leave out some hardware
components that are default in the MacBook Pro.

I only do audio work here, so I went with a MacBook and I run both OS
X and Windows XP on it. If looking to comparable Windows only laptops
it's hard to find any cheaper; the new MacBooks even win tests as
"most bang for the buck laptop" in pc magazines.

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr  5 15:50:32 2008
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From: Toby Graves <carpet8@mac.com>
Subject: Re: OT? Laptops on the PC side
Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 08:46:44 -0700
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Rumor has it that people dislike Vista so much Microsoft had to add  
additional tech support for XP--people are switching back to it from  
Vista.

toby



>>
>> s that is as stable and useful for audio and visual apps for less  
>> cash.
>
> For audio, afaik winXP is still being used and Vista is not trusted.
> (my only experience of Vista so far is seeing it run really slowly  
> on a machine with 'only' 1GB of RAM)
>
> ...but may be different for visuals.
>
> Sometimes there's problems with particular interfaces on particular  
> machines, so it's better to copy someone else's working setup if  
> possible.
>
> If you want to use a Firewire audio interface, then not many  
> laptops have the larger sized firewire socket which can be used to  
> supply power to it.
>
> andy butler


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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
<div>Rumor has it that people dislike Vista so much Microsoft had to add =
additional tech support for XP--people are switching back to it from =
Vista.</div><div><br></div><div>toby</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><b=
r><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
color=3D"#000000"><br></font>s that is as stable and useful for audio =
and visual apps for less cash.</div> </blockquote><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">For =
audio, afaik winXP is still being used and Vista is not =
trusted.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">(my only experience of Vista so =
far is seeing it run really slowly on a machine with 'only' 1GB of =
RAM)</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">...but may be different for visuals.</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">Sometimes there's problems with particular interfaces on particular =
machines, so it's better to copy someone else's working setup if =
possible.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">If you want to use a Firewire audio interface, then =
not many laptops have the larger sized firewire socket which can be used =
to supply power to it.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
"><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">andy butler <span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span></div> =
</blockquote></div><br></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-1--677545608--

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Subject: Re: OT? Laptops on the PC side
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I've had 2 Lenovo (formerly IBM) Thinkpads, a T32 bought in about 2002, =
and a T60 that is about 2 years old. Both have seem many, many gigs, and =
both have been extremely reliable. The T32 still does service as the =
living room email/web/iTunes node. The T60 is on every gig, running =
Ableton Live and various VST Plugz. I'm personally still running XP, and =
I see no reason to upgrade.

For interfaces, I use an Echo Indigo I/O for live playing, and a MOTU =
828 and/or a MOTU 8Pre for remote recording. The MOTU interfaces require =
a firewire PCMCIA adaptor, as the thinkpads have only USB2 ports, but =
with the right adaptor and chipset, the FW interfaces work flawlessly. I =
regularly do 16 channel remote recording with the MOTU's and Reaper, in =
fact, I've done more recording that way than here at the studio in the =
last year.=20

I am very much a Mac guy, the studio computer is a G5, but my Thinkpads =
have definitely served me well.

----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Kevin Cheli-Colando=20
  To: loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 1:23 PM
  Subject: OT? Laptops on the PC side


  Okay, first off, thanks for the previous round of laptop advice.  I =
would love a MacBook Pro.  We'll see how that shakes out, but in the =
meantime, how about recommendations for a PC laptop for use with live =
audio and live video processing (probably not at the same time). =20

  What I'm specifically looking at is whether or not I can get a =
comparable system to the MacBooks that is as stable and useful for audio =
and visual apps for less cash.

  Basically I'm still up in the air and trying to figure out which side =
I'll be coming down on (but I will be going the laptop route, a weekend =
of hauling gear and trying to troubleshoot the mess or wires and =
connections just really knocked me into the arms of the laptop (or at =
least the desire for one))

  Thanks,

  Kevin

  --=20

  Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have =
a
  form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all =
trouble.

  - Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)

  Sound and Vision: http://www.minds-eye.org 
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've had 2 Lenovo (formerly IBM) =
Thinkpads, a T32=20
bought in about 2002, and a T60 that is about 2 years old. Both have =
seem many,=20
many gigs, and both have been extremely reliable. The T32 still does =
service as=20
the living room email/web/iTunes node. The T60 is on every gig, running =
Ableton=20
Live and various VST Plugz. I'm personally still running XP, and I see =
no reason=20
to upgrade.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>For interfaces, I use an Echo Indigo =
I/O for live=20
playing, and a MOTU 828 and/or a MOTU 8Pre for remote recording. The =
MOTU=20
interfaces require a firewire PCMCIA adaptor, as the thinkpads have only =
USB2=20
ports, but with the right adaptor and chipset, the FW interfaces work=20
flawlessly. I regularly do 16 channel remote recording with the MOTU's =
and=20
Reaper, in fact, I've done more recording that way than here at the =
studio in=20
the last year. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am very much a Mac guy, the studio =
computer is a=20
G5, but my Thinkpads have definitely served me well.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dbillowhead@gmail.com =
href=3D"mailto:billowhead@gmail.com">Kevin=20
  Cheli-Colando</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3Dloopers-delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com">loopers-delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 04, 2008 =
1:23=20
PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> OT? Laptops on the PC =
side</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>Okay, first off, thanks for the previous round of =
laptop=20
  advice.&nbsp; I would love a MacBook Pro.&nbsp; We'll see how that =
shakes out,=20
  but in the meantime, how about recommendations for a PC laptop for use =
with=20
  live audio and live video processing (probably not at the same =
time).&nbsp;=20
  <BR><BR>What I'm specifically looking at is whether or not I can get a =

  comparable system to the MacBooks that is as stable and useful for =
audio and=20
  visual apps for less cash.<BR><BR>Basically I'm still up in the air =
and trying=20
  to figure out which side I'll be coming down on (but I will be going =
the=20
  laptop route, a weekend of hauling gear and trying to troubleshoot the =
mess or=20
  wires and connections just really knocked me into the arms of the =
laptop (or=20
  at least the desire for one))<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR><BR>Kevin<BR =
clear=3Dall><BR>--=20
  <BR><BR>Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and =
to have=20
  a<BR>form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all =

  trouble.<BR><BR>- Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)<BR><BR>Sound and Vision: =
<A=20
  href=3D"http://www.minds-eye.org">http://www.minds-eye.org</A>=20
</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C896A2.BED13870--


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr  5 21:41:22 2008
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Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 17:38:29 -0500
From: Bill Fox <billyfox@soundscapes.us>
Subject: The AM/FM Show Playlist for April 5, 2008
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http://soundscapes.us/amfm/playlists/2008/080405.html

The AM/FM Show has two alternating hosts.  When I am at the helm, expect
to hear electronic, ambient, spacemusic, Progressive Rock, and an
eclectic mix of other genres.  The show airs from 6:00 am to 8:00 am on
WMUH Allentown, 91.7 FM and on the internet.  I also host Afterglow
every Thursday from 8:00 am to 9:30 am.

                Show #127                April 5, 2008.

On this program, I continued the special on Sequences electronic music
magazine.  Each contemporary issue comes with a CD.  However, the early
isses came with a cassette.  The cassettes from issues one through
thirteen have been remastered and are now available on CDR in plastic
slip covers with artwork and track details.  Details are at:
http://sequencesmagazine.com


Phase I/Space:

ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
VA [Changing         The Crypt            Sequences No. 1
  Images]
VA [Pater]           Alaska part 1        Sequences No. 1
John Christian       Bohunt Sabotage      Bohunt Sabotage (none)


Phase II/Eclectic:

ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
Elivia Melodey       Undines Offering     Terra Dirma (none)


Phase III/Progressive Rock:

ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
Finnforest           Mikä yö!             Finnforest (The Laser's Edge)
                       (What a Night)
King Crimson         Eyes Wide Open       Happy With What You Have To Be
                                            Happy With (DGM)
IZZ                  Late Night Salvation Live at NEARfest (Doone)
Hanadryad            Anatomy of a Dream   Safe In Conformity (Unicorn)
Hanadryad            Sparks and Benign    Safe In Conformity (Unicorn)
                       Magic
Hanadryad            Self Made Men        Safe In Conformity (Unicorn)
Hanadryad            Gentle Landslide     Safe In Conformity (Unicorn)


 * = excerpt
++ = Advanced CDR from artist
VA = Various Artists (compilation)

On the next show, I will continue the special on the sampler CDRs that
come with each issue of Sequences electronic music magazine.

Bill
======================================================================
Host of the AM/FM Show every other Saturday at 6:00 am EST (GMT-5:00).
Phase 1: Electronic, ambient, and space music to bring you back from
"Beyond the Barriers."
Phase 2: Mixed bag of acoustic, electric, pop, or New Age.
Phase 3: Progressive rock from past masters to contemporary releases.
Web Site - http://soundscapes.us/amfm
Listen to WMUH Allentown locally at 91.7 FM or on-line at
http://www.muhlenberg.edu/wmuh and click the
REAL AUDIO link or go directly to
rtsp://helix.muhlenberg.edu:554/broadcast/live.rm
Playlists are also published at http://billfox.blogspot.com
RSS (2.0) feed from http://billfox.blogspot.com/rss.xml
Atom (0.3) feed from http://billfox.blogspot.com/atom.xml
======================================================================
The progdj list is the central clearing house for radio playlists of
Progressive Rock programs. Tired of joining dozens of mailing lists to
post playlists or track airplay?  The progdj list solves that problem.

The progdj list is the place to go in order to see playlists and CD
and concert reviews by DJs of progressive rock-friendly radio
programs. Anyone interested in seeing playlists can join. There is NO
SPAM because I keep the spammers out before the members ever see any
hint of it.

The progdj list is for DJs (obviously!) and band members, record label
personnel, promoters, managers, and anyone else interested in seeing
what gets played on the air. Need to find who is playing prog on the
radio? Go to the progdj list.

To join, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/progdj and click on the
[Join This Group!] link.
======================================================================

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From sales@emsyst.com  Sun Apr  6 11:46:14 2008
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From irudunu1@orange.net  Sun Apr  6 12:03:46 2008
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From: Mr Iru Dunu Ovuve <irudunu1@orange.net>
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To: irudunu1@orange.net
Subject: URGENT RESPONSE NEEDED
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FROM THE DESK OF MR OVUVE IRU DUNU 
AUDITING AND ACCOUNTING MANAGER ,
BANK OF AFRICA (B.O.A)OUAGADOUGOU-BURKINA FASO.TELEPHONE+226 78165863

Dear Friend,


I am the manager of auditing and accounting at the foreign remittance department of BANK OF AFRICA (B.O.A) 
here in Ouagadougou, Burkina Faso. In my department we discovered an abandoned sum of US$12Million 
DOLLARS (TWELVE MILLION UNITED STATE DOLLARS) in an account that belongs to one of our for eign 
customer (MR.ANDREAS SCHRANNER from Munich, Germany) who died along with his entire family in July 31 
2000 in a plane crash.For more informations about the crash youcan visit this site:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/859479.stm

Since we got information about his death, we have been expecting his next of kin to come over and claim his 
money because we cannot release it unless some body applies for it as next of kin or relation to the deceased 
as indicated in our banking guideline's and laws but unfortunately we Lent that all his supposed next of kin or 
relation died alongside with him at the plane crash leaving nobody behind for the claim. It is therefore upon this 
discovery
that I now decided to make this business proposal to you and release the money to you as the next of kin or 
relation to the deceased for safety and subsequent disbursement since nobody is coming for it and we don't 
want this money to go into the bank treasury as unclaimed bill.

The banking law and guideline here stipulates that if such money remained unclaimed after five years, the money 
will be transfered into the bank treasury as unclaimed fund.The request of foreigner as next of kin in this 
business is occassioned by the fact that the customer was a foreigner and a Burkinabe cannot stand as next of 
kin to a foreigner.

 I agree that 30% of this money will be for you as a respect to the provision of a foreign account ,10% will be set 
aside for expenses incurred during the business and 60% would be for me Thereafter,I will visit your country 
for disbursement according to the percentage indicated Therefore, to enable the immediate transfer of this fund 
to you arranged,you must apply first to the bank as relation or next of kin of the deceased with a text of 
application
that i will send to you,so i will like you to send to me your private telephone
and fax number for easy and effective communication and location where
in the money will be remitted.

Upon receipt of your reply, I will send to you by fax or email the text of the application .I will not fail to bring to 
your notice this transaction is hitch-free and that you should not entertain any atom of fear as all required 
arrangements have been made for the transfer.You should contact me immediately as soon as you receive e 
this letter.

Trusting to hear from you immediately.Yours Faithfully,

1. Full Name
2. Your Telephone Number and Fax Number
3. Your Contact Address.

Best Regards

MR.OVUVE IRU DUNU 

From sales@emsyst.com  Sun Apr  6 12:50:07 2008
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr  7 08:50:52 2008
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Subject: OT: Traveler Guitars?
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Anyone using one of these?
http://www.travelerguitar.com/

Heard some good stuff about them. Like an extra piezo mic thrown in
(only with the Pro-Series?). They should do great de-fretted, I was
told.

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr  7 13:25:48 2008
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Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 09:22:31 -0400
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I had one for a second...  I found that the string path made them 
difficult to keep in tune.
Also, I think it's too light for a fretless application, there are 
too many neck resonances and dead spots...

>Anyone using one of these?
>http://www.travelerguitar.com/
>
>Heard some good stuff about them. Like an extra piezo mic thrown in
>(only with the Pro-Series?). They should do great de-fretted, I was
>told.
>
>--
>Greetings from Sweden
>
>Per Boysen
>www.boysen.se (Swedish)
>www.looproom.com (international)
>www.stockholm-athens.com


-- 
...
http://www.zmix.net

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr  7 13:50:13 2008
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Subject: Re: Traveler Guitars?
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I think I considered these when I converted to the mini guitar, but what 
annoys me is that all the pickups are in the bridge position. Why the hell 
they would limit the guitars this way, or not create a model with a neck 
pickup, is beyond me. It pretty much rules out using the guitars for jazz. 
I wish they would stop calling them travel guitars. I am trying to shift the 
mentality of these size of guitars, from so-called travel guitars to just 
mini guitars. At the URL below, I describe my own reasoning behind selling 
over $8000 worth of PRS full sized electrics and converting to a mini guitar 
as my main axe.

The length is perfect, however...29-30 inches was my target length for a 
mini guitar.

I have not played these travel guitars, but I continue to rave about the Epi 
"Roadie" which I uses as a mini electric. I have one that I modified with a 
Gibson 57' reissue pickup, mini grover tuners, and a nice chrome volume 
knob - plus I had a luthier dress the frets and work on bridge placement, 
which made a huge difference. The guitar's neck feels pro grade now.  In 
fact, I have a second "Roadie" that I will be sending to Rick Walker this 
week.   Here is a picture of me playing it at Y2K7 - 
http://www.krispenhartung.com/images/krispen-pic5.jpg

There are two versions of the Roadie out there, one with a truss rod, and 
one without. I'd look for those with the truss rod, because then you can 
tweak the action/tension, etc

Then, of course, if you are still not satisfied with off the shelve travel 
guitars, you can have a luthier make you one, like what I did:

http://www.krispenhartung.com/mini-jazz-guitar/index.htm  ($3000)

BTW, this mini archtop will be complete in time for me to play it at the 3rd 
Annual Boise Experimental Music Festival...it will be the guitar's debut! :)

I am intrigued by the Escape MKII Nylon.  One thing I've discovered is that 
the mini nylon string acoustics, like the Amada that I have now, though 
plays like a dream, still sounds like a mandolin with nylon strings.

Kris


----- Original Message ----- 



> Anyone using one of these?
> http://www.travelerguitar.com/
>
> Heard some good stuff about them. Like an extra piezo mic thrown in
> (only with the Pro-Series?). They should do great de-fretted, I was
> told.
>
> -- 
> Greetings from Sweden
>
> Per Boysen
> www.boysen.se (Swedish)
> www.looproom.com (international)
> www.stockholm-athens.com
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr  7 14:03:22 2008
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hey all,
the other day, in the middle of a tour for Phil Kline's Zippo Songs, all of
a sudden all my sound files in LIve started lagging as if CPU was at 90%.
 And SL was experiencing all sorts of dropouts and engine shutoffs.

after troubleshooting my BUTT off for six hours, thinking 'hard drive', and
'audio interface' and 'firewire cables', I decided to resort to my old
hardware solution of an Oberheim and a DL-4 going through my Orville for
that luscious reverb.

First of all, that was incredible to start with.  I hadn't used hardware
exclusively for about 3 years, boy was it an eye-opener just to go back, an=
d
it was simply very very enjoyable.

Next, I had a great experience with Ableton getting back to me within one
business day (this was on the weekend), with the solution:

Hello,

I guess you have your airport active -  apple=B4s latest airport update
causes CPU spikes. The problem should
vanish if you turn off your airport.

Best,
C. Kleine


It's the most recent airport update. just turned off my airport, problem
solved.  SOOOO... if anyone else experiences this phenomenon, I hope this
shortcuts your process and frustration.

I violated my own rule again, DON'T INSTALL SYSTEM SOFTWARE (or anything
else for that matter) IN THE MIDDLE OF A TOUR, LOL.

All Best to All...

Todd Reynolds
http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic

------=_Part_14330_1175538.1207577000281
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline

hey all,&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>the other day, in the middle of a tour fo=
r Phil Kline&#39;s Zippo Songs, all of a sudden all my sound files in LIve =
started lagging as if CPU was at 90%. &nbsp;And SL was experiencing all sor=
ts of dropouts and engine shutoffs.</div>

<div><br></div><div>after troubleshooting my BUTT off for six hours, thinki=
ng &#39;hard drive&#39;, and &#39;audio interface&#39; and &#39;firewire ca=
bles&#39;, I decided to resort to my old hardware solution of an Oberheim a=
nd a DL-4 going through my Orville for that luscious reverb. &nbsp;</div>
<div><br></div><div>First of all, that was incredible to start with. &nbsp;=
I hadn&#39;t used hardware exclusively for about 3 years, boy was it an eye=
-opener just to go back, and it was simply very very enjoyable.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Next, I had a great experience with Ableton getting bac=
k to me within one business day (this was on the weekend), with the solutio=
n:&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"webkit-indent-blockquote"=
 style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding: 0px;">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: collapse; ">Hell=
o,<br><br>I guess you have your airport active - &nbsp;apple=B4s latest air=
port update<br>causes CPU spikes. The problem should<br>vanish if you turn =
off your airport.<br>
<br>Best,<br>C. Kleine<br></span></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It&#39;s =
the most recent airport update. just turned off my airport, problem solved.=
 &nbsp;SOOOO... if anyone else experiences this phenomenon, I hope this sho=
rtcuts your process and frustration.&nbsp;</div>

<div><br></div><div>I violated my own rule again, DON&#39;T INSTALL SYSTEM =
SOFTWARE (or anything else for that matter) IN THE MIDDLE OF A TOUR, LOL.</=
div><div><br></div><div>All Best to All...</div><div><br></div><div>Todd Re=
ynolds</div>

<div><a href=3D"http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic</a>&nbsp;</div>

------=_Part_14330_1175538.1207577000281--

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Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 16:11:15 +0200
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Subject: Re: OT: Traveler Guitars?
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Yes, I became suspicious too, after having read up on them at Harmony
Center user reviews.

per

On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 3:22 PM, Charles Zwicky <cazwicky@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>  I had one for a second...  I found that the string path made them difficult
> to keep in tune.
>  Also, I think it's too light for a fretless application, there are too many
> neck resonances and dead spots...
>
>
>
>
> > Anyone using one of these?
> > http://www.travelerguitar.com/
> >
> > Heard some good stuff about them. Like an extra piezo mic thrown in
> > (only with the Pro-Series?). They should do great de-fretted, I was
> > told.
> >

www.stockholm-athens.com

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Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 14:17:30 +0000 (GMT)
From: Tony Douglas <tonyisyourpal@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: OT: Traveler Guitars?
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Saw a couple of these in the airport shopping area at Schiphol Amsterdam. I=
 was quite intrigued by them but didn't have enough time to ask for some pl=
aying time on one. The models they had on display (one was certainly a Spee=
dster, the other possibly a nylon strung version) didn't look suitable for =
a Roland synth pickup which had me looking away too. Interested to hear wha=
t you think if you get your hands on one though !=0A=0A=0A- Tony=0A=0A-----=
 Original Message ----=0AFrom: Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>=0ATo: loope=
rs-delight <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>=0ASent: Monday, 7 April, 2=
008 9:50:50 AM=0ASubject: OT: Traveler Guitars?=0A=0AAnyone using one of th=
ese?=0Ahttp://www.travelerguitar.com/=0A=0AHeard some good stuff about them=
. Like an extra piezo mic thrown in=0A(only with the Pro-Series?). They sho=
uld do great de-fretted, I was=0Atold.=0A=0A-- =0AGreetings from Sweden=0A=
=0APer Boysen=0Awww.boysen.se (Swedish)=0Awww.looproom.com (international)=
=0Awww.stockholm-athens.com=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=09=09=0A____________=
_______________________________________________ =0AWin a BlackBerry device =
from O2 with Yahoo!. Enter now. http://www.yahoo.co.uk/blackberry
--0-406871558-1207577850=:80195
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<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;=
font-size:12pt"><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman, new york, times,=
 serif;font-size:12pt">Saw a couple of these in the airport shopping area a=
t Schiphol Amsterdam. I was quite intrigued by them but didn't have enough =
time to ask for some playing time on one. The models they had on display (o=
ne was certainly a Speedster, the other possibly a nylon strung version) di=
dn't look suitable for a Roland synth pickup which had me looking away too.=
 Interested to hear what you think if you get your hands on one though !</d=
iv><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-s=
ize:12pt"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman, new york, ti=
mes, serif;font-size:12pt">- Tony<br><br><div style=3D"font-family:times ne=
w roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">----- Original Message
 ----<br>From: Per Boysen &lt;perboysen@gmail.com><br>To: loopers-delight &=
lt;Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com><br>Sent: Monday, 7 April, 2008 9:50=
:50 AM<br>Subject: OT: Traveler Guitars?<br><br>Anyone using one of these?<=
br><a href=3D"http://www.travelerguitar.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.=
travelerguitar.com/</a><br><br>Heard some good stuff about them. Like an ex=
tra piezo mic thrown in<br>(only with the Pro-Series?). They should do grea=
t de-fretted, I was<br>told.<br><br>-- <br>Greetings from Sweden<br><br>Per=
 Boysen<br><span><a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.boysen.se">www.boy=
sen.se</a> (Swedish)</span><br><span><a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://ww=
w.looproom.com">www.looproom.com</a> (international)</span><br>www.stockhol=
m-athens.com<br><br></div><br></div><div style=3D"position:fixed"></div></d=
iv><br>=0A=09=09<hr size=3D1><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">To help you st=
ay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new <a href=3D"http://us=
.rd.yahoo.com/mail/uk/taglines/default/security_centre/*http://uk.security.=
yahoo.com/"><b>Yahoo! Security Centre</b></a>.</font></body></html>
--0-406871558-1207577850=:80195--

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I tried one in the store, but it felt a little too toy-like for my tastes.
For "travel" guitar needs, I go with either a Steinberger GM or Larrivee
parlor.

On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 1:50 AM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:

> Anyone using one of these?
> http://www.travelerguitar.com/
>
> Heard some good stuff about them. Like an extra piezo mic thrown in
> (only with the Pro-Series?). They should do great de-fretted, I was
> told.
>
>
>

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I tried one in the store, but it felt a little too toy-like for my tastes.&nbsp; For &quot;travel&quot; guitar needs, I go with either a Steinberger GM or Larrivee parlor.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 1:50 AM, Per Boysen &lt;<a href="mailto:perboysen@gmail.com">perboysen@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Anyone using one of these?<br>
<a href="http://www.travelerguitar.com/" target="_blank">http://www.travelerguitar.com/</a><br>
<br>
Heard some good stuff about them. Like an extra piezo mic thrown in<br>
(only with the Pro-Series?). They should do great de-fretted, I was<br>
told.<br>
<font color="#888888"><br><br></font></blockquote></div><br>

------=_Part_13778_25067282.1207578535049--

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From: RP Collier <skeptikalist@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Traveler Guitars?
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 07:53:57 -0700
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I thought these looked interesting as "travel" guitars, especially in  
terms of durability:
>


http://blackbirdguitar.com/specifications.html

Did anyone try them at the recent NAMM?


regards

BobC





http://tinyurl.com/yt8f8j

http://www.youtube.com/tynego

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Have a look at these:

http://www.troubadour.uk.com/?page_id=6

On Apr 7, 2008, at 4:53 PM, RP Collier wrote:

>
> I thought these looked interesting as "travel" guitars, especially  
> in terms of durability:
>>
>
>
> http://blackbirdguitar.com/specifications.html
>
> Did anyone try them at the recent NAMM?
>
>
> regards
>
> BobC
>
>
>
>
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yt8f8j
>
> http://www.youtube.com/tynego
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr  7 15:28:41 2008
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Well, this is timely, I just ordered a Traveler Escape nylon-string. The 
nylons are the only models I researched, but I've actually heard very 
good things about them, particularly the new MK-II. I decided to go with 
the older model as it's a tiny bit smaller and I found one on Ebay for 
$280 US (and I dig the minimalism of the Steinberger-esque body). It's 
mainly as a replacement for my Martin Backpacker, which has intonation 
problems and a smaller scale which I dislike (I'm fascinated by 
Krispen's move to mini's, though...), and the Traveler is 9" shorter 
even though it has a full scale length. Though I'd love to use a guitar 
this size as my main axe for ease of travel, I'm using the guitar body 
more and more as percussion and so I need to stick with a full-size 
acoustic for serious gigs.

Here's a video of someone using one of the new nylons:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO7bs2sQ5Cg

Sounds pretty good to me, you can tell it's a piezo but I use flamenco 
strings which seem to reduce the piezo honkiness, at least on my 
Takamine. I'll give a review when I finally get to play the guitar in 
June, I'll be in the States then to pick it up.

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com


> Anyone using one of these?
> http://www.travelerguitar.com/

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr  7 15:48:46 2008
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I have played the "Traveler Pro Travel Guitar" with steel strings (a friend
owns one), and I didn't like the sound at all.



On 4/7/08, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Anyone using one of these?
> http://www.travelerguitar.com/
>
> Heard some good stuff about them. Like an extra piezo mic thrown in
> (only with the Pro-Series?). They should do great de-fretted, I was
> told.
>
> --
> Greetings from Sweden
>
> Per Boysen
> www.boysen.se (Swedish)
> www.looproom.com (international)
> www.stockholm-athens.com
>
>

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<div>I have played the &quot;Traveler Pro Travel Guitar&quot; with steel strings (a friend owns one), and I didn&#39;t like the sound at all. </div>
<div><br><br>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 4/7/08, <b class="gmail_sendername">Per Boysen</b> &lt;<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:perboysen@gmail.com" target="_blank">perboysen@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span> 
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Anyone using one of these?<br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.travelerguitar.com/" target="_blank">http://www.travelerguitar.com/</a><br>
<br>Heard some good stuff about them. Like an extra piezo mic thrown in<br>(only with the Pro-Series?). They should do great de-fretted, I was<br>told.<br><br>--<br>Greetings from Sweden<br><br>Per Boysen<br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.boysen.se/" target="_blank">www.boysen.se</a> (Swedish)<br>
<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.looproom.com/" target="_blank">www.looproom.com</a> (international)<br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.stockholm-athens.com/" target="_blank">www.stockholm-athens.com</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br>

------=_Part_12822_14406087.1207583323150--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr  7 16:28:18 2008
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Subject: Re: OT: Traveler Guitars?
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Excellent! The tone sounds good enough for me.  I would run it through a LR 
Bags Acoustic preamp to re-condition the tone, etc.

Daryl, when you get the guitar please let me know how you like it, how it 
feels, etc.  This may be my next purchase.

Kris

----- Original Message ----- 



> Well, this is timely, I just ordered a Traveler Escape nylon-string. The 
> nylons are the only models I researched, but I've actually heard very good 
> things about them, particularly the new MK-II. I decided to go with the 
> older model as it's a tiny bit smaller and I found one on Ebay for $280 US 
> (and I dig the minimalism of the Steinberger-esque body). It's mainly as a 
> replacement for my Martin Backpacker, which has intonation problems and a 
> smaller scale which I dislike (I'm fascinated by Krispen's move to mini's, 
> though...), and the Traveler is 9" shorter even though it has a full scale 
> length. Though I'd love to use a guitar this size as my main axe for ease 
> of travel, I'm using the guitar body more and more as percussion and so I 
> need to stick with a full-size acoustic for serious gigs.
>
> Here's a video of someone using one of the new nylons:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO7bs2sQ5Cg
>
> Sounds pretty good to me, you can tell it's a piezo but I use flamenco 
> strings which seem to reduce the piezo honkiness, at least on my Takamine. 
> I'll give a review when I finally get to play the guitar in June, I'll be 
> in the States then to pick it up.
>
> Daryl Shawn
> www.swanwelder.com
> www.chinapaintingmusic.com
>
>
>> Anyone using one of these?
>> http://www.travelerguitar.com/
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr  7 17:16:25 2008
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From: darren perry <darrencperry@live.com>
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Subject: Engineering Live Loopers
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I'm a front of house sound engineer as well as using live looping in my own=
 music. I've engineered live loopers before and wondered how people set up =
their outputs to the sound engineer, if you're lucky enough to have one at =
your gigs. Trying to engineer a stereo feed from a computer or looping devi=
ce can be quite frustrating. I went through a stage (as I was playing and l=
ooping multiple instruments) of sending each instrument separately to the e=
ngineer, easy as I use Ableton. I felt that I couldn't mix the sound well e=
nough from the stage to give a good sound to the audience so left the engin=
eer to do what he was there for and sort that out for me.

Basically, do most people rely on sending a stereo output to the front of h=
ouse sound desk? DO you mix your tracks live? Does anyone else send multipl=
e outputs to give the engineer something to work with?

I'm looking into this as another small part to my research paper on Looping=
 Technology and Live Looping.

Thanks

Darren
_________________________________________________________________
Amazing prizes every hour with Live Search Big Snap
http://www.bigsnapsearch.com=

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr  7 17:21:08 2008
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From: Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Engineering Live Loopers
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 13:21:00 -0400
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Stereo outs too the FOH engineer. Slipping him a $10 tip never hurts  
either.
On Apr 7, 2008, at 1:16 PM, darren perry wrote:

>
> I'm a front of house sound engineer as well as using live looping  
> in my own music. I've engineered live loopers before and wondered  
> how people set up their outputs to the sound engineer, if you're  
> lucky enough to have one at your gigs. Trying to engineer a stereo  
> feed from a computer or looping device can be quite frustrating. I  
> went through a stage (as I was playing and looping multiple  
> instruments) of sending each instrument separately to the engineer,  
> easy as I use Ableton. I felt that I couldn't mix the sound well  
> enough from the stage to give a good sound to the audience so left  
> the engineer to do what he was there for and sort that out for me.
>
> Basically, do most people rely on sending a stereo output to the  
> front of house sound desk? DO you mix your tracks live? Does anyone  
> else send multiple outputs to give the engineer something to work  
> with?
>
> I'm looking into this as another small part to my research paper on  
> Looping Technology and Live Looping.
>
> Thanks
>
> Darren
> _________________________________________________________________
> Amazing prizes every hour with Live Search Big Snap
> http://www.bigsnapsearch.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr  7 17:39:21 2008
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Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 13:39:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: OT: Traveler Guitars?
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I use the Maple Lake 1607 by Wechter.  It's been awesome for me when I
travel for something other than gigs but end up gigging anyway. 
Unamplified it won't compete with a grand piano in a jam session, but on
its own it's great, very playable and when amplified kicks rear. Not sure
it can be bought anymore though.

Specs are here:
http://earthshakingmusic.com/1607.html

~Peace~
Plish


www.michaelplishka.com
www.myspace.com/michaelplishka
www.myspace.com/bohdanovich



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr  7 17:39:29 2008
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Quoting darren perry <darrencperry@live.com>:
>
> Basically, do most people rely on sending a stereo output to the   
> front of house sound desk? DO you mix your tracks live? Does anyone   
> else send multiple outputs to give the engineer something to work   
> with?
>
When I've worked with FOH engineers, I send them a stereo mix or, when  
the PA supports it, a 5.1 mix.  I automate all my mixing/panning.

In every case where I've worked with FOH engineers, the result was  
good and I experienced a good working relationship with them.

If an FOH engineer wanted to work with separate outputs, I'd be open  
to it as long as I could hear everything as needed in my floor monitor.

-- Kevin

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr  7 17:46:31 2008
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Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 13:46:29 -0400
From: "Clint Allen" <clint.allen@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Engineering Live Loopers
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As the sound engineer for a medium-sized club, I think I much prefer as many
individual outs as possible, just so I can also give them more flexability
for their monitor mix.
However, I say that because I get tired of the mundane 3-vocals and a kick
mic scenario and like the challenge.
As a looping musician though, I usually only get to send a stereo out.

Clint Allen

On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com> wrote:

> Stereo outs too the FOH engineer. Slipping him a $10 tip never hurts
> either.
>
> On Apr 7, 2008, at 1:16 PM, darren perry wrote:
>
>
> > I'm a front of house sound engineer as well as using live looping in my
> > own music. I've engineered live loopers before and wondered how people set
> > up their outputs to the sound engineer, if you're lucky enough to have one
> > at your gigs. Trying to engineer a stereo feed from a computer or looping
> > device can be quite frustrating. I went through a stage (as I was playing
> > and looping multiple instruments) of sending each instrument separately to
> > the engineer, easy as I use Ableton. I felt that I couldn't mix the sound
> > well enough from the stage to give a good sound to the audience so left the
> > engineer to do what he was there for and sort that out for me.
> >
> > Basically, do most people rely on sending a stereo output to the front
> > of house sound desk? DO you mix your tracks live? Does anyone else send
> > multiple outputs to give the engineer something to work with?
> >
> > I'm looking into this as another small part to my research paper on
> > Looping Technology and Live Looping.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Darren
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Amazing prizes every hour with Live Search Big Snap
> > http://www.bigsnapsearch.com
> >
>
>


-- 
Clint E. Allen
* Technology Consultant
* Sound Engineering

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<div>As the sound engineer for a medium-sized club, I think I much prefer as many individual outs as possible, just so I can also give them more flexability for their monitor mix. </div>
<div>However, I say that because I get tired of the mundane 3-vocals and a kick mic scenario and like the challenge. </div>
<div>As a looping musician though, I usually only get to send a stereo out. </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Clint Allen<br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Chris Sewell &lt;<a href="mailto:lunamusic@mac.com" target="_blank">lunamusic@mac.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Stereo outs too the FOH engineer. Slipping him a $10 tip never hurts either. 
<div>
<div></div>
<div><br>On Apr 7, 2008, at 1:16 PM, darren perry wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"><br>I&#39;m a front of house sound engineer as well as using live looping in my own music. I&#39;ve engineered live loopers before and wondered how people set up their outputs to the sound engineer, if you&#39;re lucky enough to have one at your gigs. Trying to engineer a stereo feed from a computer or looping device can be quite frustrating. I went through a stage (as I was playing and looping multiple instruments) of sending each instrument separately to the engineer, easy as I use Ableton. I felt that I couldn&#39;t mix the sound well enough from the stage to give a good sound to the audience so left the engineer to do what he was there for and sort that out for me.<br>
<br>Basically, do most people rely on sending a stereo output to the front of house sound desk? DO you mix your tracks live? Does anyone else send multiple outputs to give the engineer something to work with?<br><br>I&#39;m looking into this as another small part to my research paper on Looping Technology and Live Looping.<br>
<br>Thanks<br><br>Darren<br>_________________________________________________________________<br>Amazing prizes every hour with Live Search Big Snap<br><a href="http://www.bigsnapsearch.com/" target="_blank">http://www.bigsnapsearch.com</a><br>
</blockquote><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Clint E. Allen<br>* Technology Consultant<br>* Sound Engineering 

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Subject: AW: Engineering Live Loopers
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> I'm a front of house sound engineer as well as using live 
> looping in my own music. I've engineered live loopers before 
> and wondered how people set up their outputs to the sound 
> engineer, if you're lucky enough to have one at your gigs. 

I send a (stereo) pair of XLRs to the mains. Having separate outs seems
dangerous to me - you might end up having a track you silently want to loop
coming through the FOH.
Monitoring for me is a pair of earplugs, connected to my setup. I prefer not
to have monitor speakers onstage.

(This "no monitor speakers onstage" actually resulted from my experiences
with my Eclectic Blah outfit. For reasons of minimizing crosstalk into
microphones, I gave that "as few sound sources as possible" rule - meaning
inear/can monitoring and no instrument amps onstage. The result: playing is
soooo much less tiring. And horn players can hear themselves even when not
playing fortissimo possibile. Highly recommended).

	Rainer

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I agree, When I do PA gigs, it surprises me the number of laptop =
composer/musicians who do not have multiple outs - sending drums, bass, =
pads, leads, effects and everything to a PA and it is always the same =
mix no matter what the venue acoustic. I think that to be able to at =
least seperate the main sound areas for FOH mixing is the best solution.

I've had similar issues with keyboard players that just have a stereo =
out and yet run bass, pad and lead sounds all running at volumes that I =
have no control over at the desk - the audience don't know it's not the =
engineer's fault!

Ian
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Clint Allen=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 6:46 PM
  Subject: Re: Engineering Live Loopers


  As the sound engineer for a medium-sized club, I think I much prefer =
as many individual outs as possible, just so I can also give them more =
flexability for their monitor mix.=20
  However, I say that because I get tired of the mundane 3-vocals and a =
kick mic scenario and like the challenge.=20
  As a looping musician though, I usually only get to send a stereo out. =


  Clint Allen


  On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com> =
wrote:

    Stereo outs too the FOH engineer. Slipping him a $10 tip never hurts =
either.=20

    On Apr 7, 2008, at 1:16 PM, darren perry wrote:



      I'm a front of house sound engineer as well as using live looping =
in my own music. I've engineered live loopers before and wondered how =
people set up their outputs to the sound engineer, if you're lucky =
enough to have one at your gigs. Trying to engineer a stereo feed from a =
computer or looping device can be quite frustrating. I went through a =
stage (as I was playing and looping multiple instruments) of sending =
each instrument separately to the engineer, easy as I use Ableton. I =
felt that I couldn't mix the sound well enough from the stage to give a =
good sound to the audience so left the engineer to do what he was there =
for and sort that out for me.

      Basically, do most people rely on sending a stereo output to the =
front of house sound desk? DO you mix your tracks live? Does anyone else =
send multiple outputs to give the engineer something to work with?

      I'm looking into this as another small part to my research paper =
on Looping Technology and Live Looping.

      Thanks

      Darren
      _________________________________________________________________
      Amazing prizes every hour with Live Search Big Snap
      http://www.bigsnapsearch.com






  --=20
  Clint E. Allen
  * Technology Consultant
  * Sound Engineering 
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I agree, When I do PA gigs, it surprises me the =
number of=20
laptop composer/musicians who do not have multiple outs - sending drums, =
bass,=20
pads, leads, effects and everything to a PA and it is always the same =
mix no=20
matter what the venue acoustic. I think that to be able to at least =
seperate the=20
main sound areas for FOH mixing is the best solution.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I've had similar issues with keyboard players that =
just have a=20
stereo out and yet run bass, pad and lead sounds all running at volumes =
that I=20
have no control over at the desk - the audience don't know it's not the=20
engineer's fault!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Ian</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dclint.allen@gmail.com =
href=3D"mailto:clint.allen@gmail.com">Clint=20
  Allen</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, April 07, 2008 =
6:46=20
PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Engineering Live=20
  Loopers</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>As the sound engineer for a medium-sized club, I think I much =
prefer as=20
  many individual outs as possible, just so I can also give them more=20
  flexability for their monitor mix. </DIV>
  <DIV>However, I say that because I get tired of the mundane 3-vocals =
and a=20
  kick mic scenario and like the challenge. </DIV>
  <DIV>As a looping musician though, I usually only get to send a stereo =
out.=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Clint Allen<BR><BR></DIV>
  <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Chris Sewell =
&lt;<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:lunamusic@mac.com" =
target=3D_blank>lunamusic@mac.com</A>&gt;=20
  wrote:<BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
#ccc 1px solid">Stereo=20
    outs too the FOH engineer. Slipping him a $10 tip never hurts =
either.=20
    <DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV><BR>On Apr 7, 2008, at 1:16 PM, darren perry wrote:<BR><BR>
    <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
    style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px =
solid"><BR>I'm=20
      a front of house sound engineer as well as using live looping in =
my own=20
      music. I've engineered live loopers before and wondered how people =
set up=20
      their outputs to the sound engineer, if you're lucky enough to =
have one at=20
      your gigs. Trying to engineer a stereo feed from a computer or =
looping=20
      device can be quite frustrating. I went through a stage (as I was =
playing=20
      and looping multiple instruments) of sending each instrument =
separately to=20
      the engineer, easy as I use Ableton. I felt that I couldn't mix =
the sound=20
      well enough from the stage to give a good sound to the audience so =
left=20
      the engineer to do what he was there for and sort that out for=20
      me.<BR><BR>Basically, do most people rely on sending a stereo =
output to=20
      the front of house sound desk? DO you mix your tracks live? Does =
anyone=20
      else send multiple outputs to give the engineer something to work=20
      with?<BR><BR>I'm looking into this as another small part to my =
research=20
      paper on Looping Technology and Live=20
      =
Looping.<BR><BR>Thanks<BR><BR>Darren<BR>_________________________________=
________________________________<BR>Amazing=20
      prizes every hour with Live Search Big Snap<BR><A=20
      href=3D"http://www.bigsnapsearch.com/"=20
      =
target=3D_blank>http://www.bigsnapsearch.com</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DI=
V></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR=20
  clear=3Dall><BR>-- <BR>Clint E. Allen<BR>* Technology Consultant<BR>* =
Sound=20
  Engineering </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0072_01C898E2.5BF65400--



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I always send just a stereo mix, but I loop solo with just acoustic guitar.
Regardless, the soundguys used to get confused because of the lack of clear
visual cues as to where the sound was coming from.  Plus, the house monitors
were never anything approaching flat, and seemed to have been optimised to
allow vocals to cut through a full band situation and allow everyone to hear
the almighty kick drum, which made for a horrible acoustic guitar sound
onstage.

I'd imagine that multiple outs from a laptop would also be confusing--how
does he know what track the sound he's trying to cut/boost/eq is coming
from?

TH

On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 11:05 AM, Ian Popperwell <popperwell@iname.com>
wrote:

>  I agree, When I do PA gigs, it surprises me the number of laptop
> composer/musicians who do not have multiple outs - sending drums, bass,
> pads, leads, effects and everything to a PA and it is always the same mix no
> matter what the venue acoustic. I think that to be able to at least seperate
> the main sound areas for FOH mixing is the best solution.
>

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I always send just a stereo mix, but I loop solo with just acoustic guitar.&nbsp; Regardless, the soundguys used to get confused because of the lack of clear visual cues as to where the sound was coming from.&nbsp; Plus, the house monitors were never anything approaching flat, and seemed to have been optimised to allow vocals to cut through a full band situation and allow everyone to hear the almighty kick drum, which made for a horrible acoustic guitar sound onstage.<br>
<br>I&#39;d imagine that multiple outs from a laptop would also be confusing--how does he know what track the sound he&#39;s trying to cut/boost/eq is coming from?<br><br>TH<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 11:05 AM, Ian Popperwell &lt;<a href="mailto:popperwell@iname.com">popperwell@iname.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">





<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font size="2">I agree, When I do PA gigs, it surprises me the number of 
laptop composer/musicians who do not have multiple outs - sending drums, bass, 
pads, leads, effects and everything to a PA and it is always the same mix no 
matter what the venue acoustic. I think that to be able to at least seperate the 
main sound areas for FOH mixing is the best solution.</font></div></div></blockquote></div><br>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr  7 18:09:13 2008
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Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 14:09:10 -0400
From: "Clint Allen" <clint.allen@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Engineering Live Loopers
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I engineered sound for a show over the weekend where the band submixed their
vocals (5 vocals) for various reasons of their own. They did not submix well
at all and ultimately I had no control over their vocal sound. It really
turned out badly and the audience AND band kept saying "more vocals!" and
there was little I could do except give increased feedback. It was a
nightmare. It is difficult to stop the show and adjust their submix for them
:)

On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 2:05 PM, Ian Popperwell <popperwell@iname.com> wrote:

>  I agree, When I do PA gigs, it surprises me the number of laptop
> composer/musicians who do not have multiple outs - sending drums, bass,
> pads, leads, effects and everything to a PA and it is always the same mix no
> matter what the venue acoustic. I think that to be able to at least seperate
> the main sound areas for FOH mixing is the best solution.
>
> I've had similar issues with keyboard players that just have a stereo out
> and yet run bass, pad and lead sounds all running at volumes that I have no
> control over at the desk - the audience don't know it's not the engineer's
> fault!
>
> Ian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Clint Allen <clint.allen@gmail.com>
> *To:* Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> *Sent:* Monday, April 07, 2008 6:46 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Engineering Live Loopers
>
> As the sound engineer for a medium-sized club, I think I much prefer as
> many individual outs as possible, just so I can also give them more
> flexability for their monitor mix.
> However, I say that because I get tired of the mundane 3-vocals and a kick
> mic scenario and like the challenge.
> As a looping musician though, I usually only get to send a stereo out.
>
> Clint Allen
>
> On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > Stereo outs too the FOH engineer. Slipping him a $10 tip never hurts
> > either.
> >
> > On Apr 7, 2008, at 1:16 PM, darren perry wrote:
> >
> >
> > > I'm a front of house sound engineer as well as using live looping in
> > > my own music. I've engineered live loopers before and wondered how people
> > > set up their outputs to the sound engineer, if you're lucky enough to have
> > > one at your gigs. Trying to engineer a stereo feed from a computer or
> > > looping device can be quite frustrating. I went through a stage (as I was
> > > playing and looping multiple instruments) of sending each instrument
> > > separately to the engineer, easy as I use Ableton. I felt that I couldn't
> > > mix the sound well enough from the stage to give a good sound to the
> > > audience so left the engineer to do what he was there for and sort that out
> > > for me.
> > >
> > > Basically, do most people rely on sending a stereo output to the front
> > > of house sound desk? DO you mix your tracks live? Does anyone else send
> > > multiple outputs to give the engineer something to work with?
> > >
> > > I'm looking into this as another small part to my research paper on
> > > Looping Technology and Live Looping.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Darren
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Amazing prizes every hour with Live Search Big Snap
> > > http://www.bigsnapsearch.com
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Clint E. Allen
> * Technology Consultant
> * Sound Engineering
>
>


-- 
Clint E. Allen
* Technology Consultant
* Sound Engineering

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I engineered sound for a show over the weekend where the band submixed their vocals (5 vocals) for various reasons of their own. They did not submix well at all and ultimately I had no control over their vocal sound. It really turned out badly and the audience AND band kept saying &quot;more vocals!&quot; and there was little I could do except give increased feedback. It was a nightmare. It is difficult to stop the show and adjust their submix for them :)<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 2:05 PM, Ian Popperwell &lt;<a href="mailto:popperwell@iname.com">popperwell@iname.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font size="2">I agree, When I do PA gigs, it surprises me the number of laptop composer/musicians who do not have multiple outs - sending drums, bass, pads, leads, effects and everything to a PA and it is always the same mix no matter what the venue acoustic. I think that to be able to at least seperate the main sound areas for FOH mixing is the best solution.</font></div>

<div><font size="2"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font size="2">I&#39;ve had similar issues with keyboard players that just have a stereo out and yet run bass, pad and lead sounds all running at volumes that I have no control over at the desk - the audience don&#39;t know it&#39;s not the engineer&#39;s fault!</font></div>

<div><font size="2"></font>&nbsp;</div><font color="#888888">
<div><font size="2">Ian</font></div></font>
<div>
<div></div>
<div class="Wj3C7c">
<blockquote style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial"><b>From:</b> <a title="clint.allen@gmail.com" href="mailto:clint.allen@gmail.com" target="_blank">Clint Allen</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" href="mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" target="_blank">Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 07, 2008 6:46 PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: Engineering Live Loopers</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>As the sound engineer for a medium-sized club, I think I much prefer as many individual outs as possible, just so I can also give them more flexability for their monitor mix. </div>
<div>However, I say that because I get tired of the mundane 3-vocals and a kick mic scenario and like the challenge. </div>
<div>As a looping musician though, I usually only get to send a stereo out. </div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Clint Allen<br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Chris Sewell &lt;<a href="mailto:lunamusic@mac.com" target="_blank">lunamusic@mac.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Stereo outs too the FOH engineer. Slipping him a $10 tip never hurts either. 
<div>
<div></div>
<div><br>On Apr 7, 2008, at 1:16 PM, darren perry wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"><br>I&#39;m a front of house sound engineer as well as using live looping in my own music. I&#39;ve engineered live loopers before and wondered how people set up their outputs to the sound engineer, if you&#39;re lucky enough to have one at your gigs. Trying to engineer a stereo feed from a computer or looping device can be quite frustrating. I went through a stage (as I was playing and looping multiple instruments) of sending each instrument separately to the engineer, easy as I use Ableton. I felt that I couldn&#39;t mix the sound well enough from the stage to give a good sound to the audience so left the engineer to do what he was there for and sort that out for me.<br>
<br>Basically, do most people rely on sending a stereo output to the front of house sound desk? DO you mix your tracks live? Does anyone else send multiple outputs to give the engineer something to work with?<br><br>I&#39;m looking into this as another small part to my research paper on Looping Technology and Live Looping.<br>
<br>Thanks<br><br>Darren<br>_________________________________________________________________<br>Amazing prizes every hour with Live Search Big Snap<br><a href="http://www.bigsnapsearch.com/" target="_blank">http://www.bigsnapsearch.com</a><br>
</blockquote><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Clint E. Allen<br>* Technology Consultant<br>* Sound Engineering </blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>
Clint E. Allen<br>* Technology Consultant<br>* Sound Engineering 

------=_Part_18396_28048394.1207591750888--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr  7 18:24:08 2008
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Subject: RE: Engineering Live Loopers
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I have experienced this confusion actually. With any sound engineer I don't=
 know I couldn't trust them with control over individual instruments mainly=
 as it is just too confusing most of the time and too much to ask of them. =
However I worked with an engineer in rehearsals for a show and that helped =
a lot, especially in smaller venues where the engineer often has to do a lo=
t to make anything sound right, having an engineer who knows your set is a =
bloody blessing!

Personally I was always sending the same instruments down the same tracks s=
o it was quite manageable. Cutting my instruments down to just guitar and b=
ass now though so will probably revert to a stereo out. My engineer is also=
 now my drummer so that's screwed up my blessing of a situation!

Glad this topic sparked some interest!

Darren=20

________________________________
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 11:08:23 -0700
From: travishartnett@gmail.com
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Engineering Live Loopers

I always send just a stereo mix, but I loop solo with just acoustic guitar.=
  Regardless, the soundguys used to get confused because of the lack of cle=
ar visual cues as to where the sound was coming from.  Plus, the house moni=
tors were never anything approaching flat, and seemed to have been optimise=
d to allow vocals to cut through a full band situation and allow everyone t=
o hear the almighty kick drum, which made for a horrible acoustic guitar so=
und onstage.


I'd imagine that multiple outs from a laptop would also be confusing--how d=
oes he know what track the sound he's trying to cut/boost/eq is coming from=
?

TH

On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 11:05 AM, Ian Popperwell <popperwell@iname.com> wrot=
e:








I agree, When I do PA gigs, it surprises me the number of
laptop composer/musicians who do not have multiple outs - sending drums, ba=
ss,
pads, leads, effects and everything to a PA and it is always the same mix n=
o
matter what the venue acoustic. I think that to be able to at least seperat=
e the
main sound areas for FOH mixing is the best solution.



_________________________________________________________________
Get Hotmail on your mobile. Text MSN to 63463 now!
http://mobile.uk.msn.com/pc/mail.aspx=

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr  7 18:35:20 2008
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Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 20:35:19 +0200
From: "Per Boysen" <perboysen@gmail.com>
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On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 7:16 PM, darren perry <darrencperry@live.com> wrote:
>
>  Basically, do most people rely on sending a stereo output to the front of house sound desk? DO you mix your tracks live? Does anyone else send multiple outputs to give the engineer something to work with?
>
>  I'm looking into this as another small part to my research paper on Looping Technology and Live Looping.


Hi,

Yes, I'm always sending a stereo bus to the house PA. The reason is
that I work the master output quite extensively as an important part
of my performance. Below is the signal path in my looping laptop and
it should explain this well, I hope.

1. Inputs. Three audio inputs for three different acoustic instruments
and one MIDI input for a MIDI intstrument (Akai EWI4000s).

2. All audio inputs go through a first EQ stage that makes the signal
sharper and less bassy. Gives a distinct and clear shape to the
signal.

3. 20 alternative effect patch chains (15 for audio and 5 soft
synths). I only play through one patch at a time and as I chose one
certain patch by a foot pedal, the other 19 patches are muted (except
for reverb tail preservation that may sometimes keep one patch open
while I'm moving into playing through another one) and offloaded the
CPU. All these patches are carefully designed according to "reverse
mix engineering", meaning that one certain patch may not sound "full"
but when layered together into loops these treatments will make the
layers sound good together as a summed mix (by minimizing clashing
frequencies). Regarding the soft synths, that are played through MIDI,
this sound design is already taken care of within each synth sound.

4. The software looper. Sound is being layered into loops here to create music.

5. The summed Looper output is going through a steep cut off filter
that doesn't pass anything under 60 Hz. Such low frequencies would
destroy the dynamics of the next stage...

6. Master compressor. This compressor is balancing the summed looper
master output versus the live instrument playing input. The live input
also goes directly here, bypassing the looper, as the looper is set to
all wet and no dry signal. This last stage is what I mean by saying
that "I work the master output while playing", since the balance is
set up in a precise way that makes it possible for me to "juggle" the
looper output with my live input playing. This compression also makes
reverb grow nicely between recorded sounds and drop down in level to
make room in the mix for those recorded sound as they appear from the
loops. A "one night live engineer" wouldn't have a fair chance to
create this sound; which is the sound I like and want to perform with.

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr  7 18:41:39 2008
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Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 03:12:19 +0900
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From: Mech <mech@m3ch.net>
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At 10:28 AM -0500 4/7/08, Daryl Shawn wrote:
>Well, this is timely, I just ordered a Traveler Escape nylon-string.

Daryl,

I've got one of the Traveler Escape nylon-strings (one of the Mark 
I's, now discontinued).  I've had it since ~2005, although I've got 
amazingly few hours on it.  I originally bought it as the one 
personal item that I was to bring on a 60-day walking pilgrimage in 
rural Japan.  However, in the end, not even that much made the final 
weight cut, so it's spent much of its life in the closet.

Sound wise, I've had no real complaints whatsoever.  It sounds good. 
Maybe a tiny bit of piezo quack and certainly not as good as a 
top-class classical guitar, but good enough for any applications I 
had that might call for a nylon-string.  The thing that always 
detracted from it for me though, was the action.  From the factory, 
it came with an extremely high action -- even for a classical guitar 
-- which made it difficult for me to really enjoy playing it.  I kept 
meaning to spend a few days working on it and correcting that, but 
it's been such a side-instrument that those concerns have always 
fallen into the "I'll get around to it" category.

At one point, I even played around with the possibility of mounting a 
GK to it (yes, you can track nylon strings, if they're a brand 
fabricated with a bronze core), but again: "I'll get around to it". 
;)

I think you should spend a good deal of time right at the very 
beginning adjusting the truss and action, as well as possibly having 
a good luthier do a setup on it (assuming he's not a jerk and laughs 
at you for bringing him a little backpacker guitar).  If you can get 
it so it plays comfortably for you, then I think you'll have a fine 
little guitar on your hands.

	--m.
-- 
_____
"bye-bye empire; empire, bye-bye"

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr  7 19:10:41 2008
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Hi

sequencer & D machine L-R
ALL the looping system everything L-R
guitar (the live playing) L-R
echoplexis out (loops) L-R

so the engeneer has the mix as I intend to deliver it :( everything mix) 
and the sequencer/drum machine mix
plus if needed

what I play live
and what the loops are made of

Works fine and allows some tweaking

Claude


darren perry a écrit :
> I'm a front of house sound engineer as well as using live looping in my own music. I've engineered live loopers before and wondered how people set up their outputs to the sound engineer, if you're lucky enough to have one at your gigs. Trying to engineer a stereo feed from a computer or looping device can be quite frustrating. I went through a stage (as I was playing and looping multiple instruments) of sending each instrument separately to the engineer, easy as I use Ableton. I felt that I couldn't mix the sound well enough from the stage to give a good sound to the audience so left the engineer to do what he was there for and sort that out for me.
> 
> Basically, do most people rely on sending a stereo output to the front of house sound desk? DO you mix your tracks live? Does anyone else send multiple outputs to give the engineer something to work with?
> 
> I'm looking into this as another small part to my research paper on Looping Technology and Live Looping.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Darren
> _________________________________________________________________
> Amazing prizes every hour with Live Search Big Snap
> http://www.bigsnapsearch.com
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr  7 19:14:39 2008
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hey, thanks for the personal review, Mech. That's a good note on the 
action, I do prefer the classical height but it's pretty crucial that it 
feels right, I'll schedule a setup right away (after explaining what the 
hell it is). Glad to hear you're pretty happy with the sound.

What I'd really like someday is a solidbody headless nylon-string with a 
whammy bar and a bunch of body contact piezo's, but I have to wait until 
I can afford to have a custom one made.

Somebody I also need a personal review of that two-month Japanese 
walking pilgrimage...

cheers-

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com

> At 10:28 AM -0500 4/7/08, Daryl Shawn wrote:
>> Well, this is timely, I just ordered a Traveler Escape nylon-string.
>
> Daryl,
>
> I've got one of the Traveler Escape nylon-strings (one of the Mark 
> I's, now discontinued).  I've had it since ~2005, although I've got 
> amazingly few hours on it.  I originally bought it as the one personal 
> item that I was to bring on a 60-day walking pilgrimage in rural 
> Japan.  However, in the end, not even that much made the final weight 
> cut, so it's spent much of its life in the closet.
>
> Sound wise, I've had no real complaints whatsoever.  It sounds good. 
> Maybe a tiny bit of piezo quack and certainly not as good as a 
> top-class classical guitar, but good enough for any applications I had 
> that might call for a nylon-string.  The thing that always detracted 
> from it for me though, was the action.  From the factory, it came with 
> an extremely high action -- even for a classical guitar -- which made 
> it difficult for me to really enjoy playing it.  I kept meaning to 
> spend a few days working on it and correcting that, but it's been such 
> a side-instrument that those concerns have always fallen into the 
> "I'll get around to it" category.
>
> At one point, I even played around with the possibility of mounting a 
> GK to it (yes, you can track nylon strings, if they're a brand 
> fabricated with a bronze core), but again: "I'll get around to it". ;)
>
> I think you should spend a good deal of time right at the very 
> beginning adjusting the truss and action, as well as possibly having a 
> good luthier do a setup on it (assuming he's not a jerk and laughs at 
> you for bringing him a little backpacker guitar).  If you can get it 
> so it plays comfortably for you, then I think you'll have a fine 
> little guitar on your hands.
>
>     --m.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr  7 21:46:47 2008
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Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 17:46:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: OT: Traveler Guitars?
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I Forgot to mention that Wechter's 1000 series www.wechterguitars.com are
all travellnig guitars and they have a few different versions.

~peace~
Plish


> I use the Maple Lake 1607 by Wechter.  It's been awesome for me when I
> travel for something other than gigs but end up gigging anyway.
> Unamplified it won't compete with a grand piano in a jam session, but on
> its own it's great, very playable and when amplified kicks rear. Not sure
> it can be bought anymore though.
>
> Specs are here:
> http://earthshakingmusic.com/1607.html
>
> ~Peace~
> Plish
>
>
> www.michaelplishka.com
> www.myspace.com/michaelplishka
> www.myspace.com/bohdanovich
>
>
>
>


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr  7 21:49:37 2008
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On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 7:16 PM, darren perry <darrencperry@live.com> wrote:

>> Basically, do most people rely on sending a stereo output to the front of house sound desk? DO you mix your tracks live? Does anyone else send multiple outputs to give the engineer something to work with?
>>
>> 
>>
I am not cruel enough to send multiple outputs to the engineer.  I 
learned long ago from people's comments that there is a big disjunct 
between what I am physically doing and what they are hearing.  During 
one practice session with my eighties New Wave band, the drummer threw 
down his sticks and pointed at me, saying, "I know you're making that 
sound.  But your hands are doing the same thing whether the sound is 
there or not."  That was true.  I was making the sound with my effects 
pedals, including a volume pedal at the end of the chain so sometimes 
the sound was there and sometimes it was not. 

At the present I am playing a lot of Theremin, but often not obviously.  
I run the Theremin through a volume pedal and often bring up the pedal 
for a drone tone that I can vary by simply  leaning  into  or  away from 
the  pitch  antenna.  While I am doing this I will  often be waving one 
paw over an Air  Synth  and striking a guitar with the  other.  Add in a 
loop on the digital  delay  (which  is  usually  played at  half  speed  
and  backwards,  and the poor  engineer  dealing with me for the  first 
time doesn't stand a chance.

Of course, neither does the audience,  which  is a bit of  a problem. (-8

Actually, now that I think more about it, my gigs so far have mostly 
been small enough  that  I am the  engineer:  stereo  out  to  two  
mono  amps.   When  playing  with  Defenestra  and  Reverend  Wolf  I 
send  a  stereo  out  to  people  who  know  me. Reverend Wolf has yet 
to play in public so that question is mute.  With Defenestra, Will 
Soderberg, the band leader, mixes everything and sends a stereo send to 
the house engineer.  We have had problems with house engineers who think 
they can effect the sound of a single instrument.  (Usually they're 
trying to turn the trumpet down.)  April  22nd  I'll  be  playing  a  
club with a PA.  I'll let y ou know how that turns out.

John McIntyre
mcintyre@pa.msu.edu

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Hello

Word up guys - does any of you use the digitech whammy pedal? I want  
to use it to play bass lines down an octave and add special effects  
possibly via a big muff.

Advice please as usual!!!
Thanks

Matt

www.mattstevensguitar.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr  7 22:01:42 2008
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Own it, use it, love it.   You can do what you mention with it.



www.donovanstokes.com
http://members.sibeliusmusic.com/donovanstokes
www.myspace.com/donovanstokes



**************
Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.
    
  (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)


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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><HTML><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" FACE=3D"Gen=
eva" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" SIZE=3D"2">Own it, use it, love it.&nbsp;  You can=
 do what you mention with it.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
www.donovanstokes.com<BR>
http://members.sibeliusmusic.com/donovanstokes<BR>
www.myspace.com/donovanstokes<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" FACE=3D"Geneva" FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" SIZE=3D"=
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in my former life i used both versions: WHAMMY 1 and WHAMMY 2 for specifically that use-a clear steady one octave down as long as it gets a clean signal going in.
s

-----Original Message-----
>From: Matt Stevens <mattstevensguitar@btinternet.com>
>Sent: Apr 7, 2008 5:57 PM
>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>Subject: 
>
>
>Hello
>
>Word up guys - does any of you use the digitech whammy pedal? I want  
>to use it to play bass lines down an octave and add special effects  
>possibly via a big muff.
>
>Advice please as usual!!!
>Thanks
>
>Matt
>
>www.mattstevensguitar.com
>

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From: "Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill" <rs@moinlabs.de>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: OT-SUPER LATE POST to MULTI-effects: Line6 POD X3 Live
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 00:34:05 +0200
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Ok, this is it: a little more in-depth review of Line6's biggest =
floorboard babe, the Line6 POD X3 Live.


CONCEPT:
Line6 has been known for their amp modeling know-how for a long time. In =
fact, I believe they somehow invented it (at least to do it properly). =
Following up on the success of their first POD, they supplied a big line =
of products, including effects modellers (the DL4 is well known in these =
parts), guitar amps with modelling functions and finally even =
instruments. However, the center of their product catalogue remains the =
POD - and it's now in generation three. Europeam retail prices for the =
POD X3 Live are in the just below =E2=82=AC500 region.


PACKAGE:
The "live" variant of this thing (in the first generation, there had =
only been the stupid kidney-shaped thing and the rackmount "Pro" =
version) is a sturdy, black device. Twelve footswitches, a heavy-duty =
style expression pedal and a total of eight big metal knobs are the =
eyecatchers here (together with two strange handlebars which may serve =
some protective or rather some aesthetic function?)
>From the more electronic interface side, this is rounded off by a =
something like 5x3cm orange-backlit LCD, five softknobs, a four-way =
navigator and four buttons.
While the footswitches, the pedal and also the metal knobs look really =
made for eternity, the small soft knobs do much less so - definitely =
something that may fail under heavy road use.
It immediately catches the eye that the metal knobs have position =
indicators of the mechanical kind. No rotary encoders here, and what =
disturbs me most is that the values controlled by these "jump" if you =
turn those knobs - meaning that if you're in the midst of a quite =
passage with a clean sound and want to edge up drive just a bit and the =
knob happens to be at full blast, then you're instantly in death metal =
hell.

Connection-wise, you get the full ballbark: two inputs for guitars (or =
basses, 1/4''), two independent pairs of outputs (1/4'' and XLR), =
phones, aux input (1/8'' stereo), Variax guitar connection, microphone =
in (XLR, but why no phantom power???) effects loop (mono send/stereo =
return), SPDIF out, MIDI in and out/thru, USB and connection for the =
power supply (which is a non-SPS one).
The phones output hasn't got a separate volume knob - but you can at =
least disconnect the XLR outs from the volume knob.

All in all nice looking - except for the following:
	* crappy looking soft knobs
	* big knobs not rotary encoder, no snap function
	* effects loop only with mono send


FUNCTIONALITY:
Two things jump out here, both in comparison to other products and to =
earlier versions of the POD.
First, the X3 got two completely independent processing paths in stereo. =
You can even use separate inputs and outputs for these, or do the in/out =
configuration any way you like. Also editing and control is completely =
independent. The only limitation here is that the effects loop can only =
be applied to two of these processing paths (which are called "Tones" =
here).
Second, the X3 offers a full complement of models (amps, cabs and =
effects) both for guitar and bass. This is I believe a first (and =
currently only) in class - even with Roland/Boss' latest products, you =
still have to get two devices to have both. This is also what made me =
choose this product over competitors.

These two items might make this the perfect companion for Warr guitar =
players (or for players of any instrument with two outputs and huge =
tonal range from bass to guitar register).

Each tone is built up of a sequence of processing blocks. Basically, it =
goes like =
Input->Gate->Wah->Stomp->(Loop->Mod->Delay->Verb->)Amp+Cab->Comp->EQ->(Lo=
op->Mod->Delay->Verb->)Output. The blocks in parantheses can be placed =
either pre or post amp, but not both at the same time in the same tone.
This already shows another big weakness of the X3: there is only minimum =
flexibility in signal routing. You may not have the delay in front of =
the mod block (unless you put the delay before and the mod after the =
amp), and you also can't have the compressor after the EQ - or, more =
importantly, the EQ before the stomp box for some tone shaping before =
the spectrum hits a distortion pedal.

The sheer number of independent processing blocks really screams =
powerful here - but what it has to offer in power, it lacks in =
flexibility. It's some like a 1000bhp car without steering to that =
respect.


MODELS:
I personally always liked the Line6 amp models much better than those of =
any other modeling thing builder, period. And that hasn't changed. New =
is that there are really tons of those. A total of 42 amp (divided into =
guitar, bass, and preamp sections), which can be freely combined with 24 =
cabinet models (in guitar and bass section). A pity that you have a =
choice of four microphones each for guitar and bass cabs, but can't mix =
those (e.g. mike a guitar cabinet with an EV RE20 mike).
Like I said before, those amp models are - great. They work equally well =
for clean and super-meltdown sounds and, more importantly, anything in =
between. Playing with those will have you experiment for hours, only =
that in comparison to earlier incarnations of the POD the number of =
models has vastly increased, AND now you can have two sounds at the same =
time (meaning your experimentation time to the power of two).

The effects models are an assortment of their models mainly from the =
DL4, MM4 and DM4 modelers, plus some reverbs from the Vetta amps, Wahs =
from the Vetta, plus some new creations. What is really strange, =
however, is that some extremely important effects have been left out for =
no obvious reason - in the case of the delay effects, the dynamic delay =
model (ducking delay).
There's only one compressor (except for those available in the "stomp" =
section), but I don't care. I know that LA-2A model from the Bass POD =
which I used to own and it's wonderful.

With that focus (and also centre of expertise) on guitarist/stompbox =
stuff come some big limitations. First, I still have to find a =
convincing reverb effect in this unit, which sounds good and has more =
controls than "predelay", "decay", "tone" and "mix". Second, there is =
not a single pitch shifter effect in the whole unit. There's not even a =
whammy bar. My cheap Zoom G2 has both.

Another thing I noticed is that the documentation doesn't go on as =
deeply about the different models as it used to. Again referring to the =
Bass POD, there was about half a page for each bass amp and cabinet =
model. Now, there's like four lines of fine print per amp model, and =
only a table of available cabinet models without any description.


COMPUTER AND MIDI INTEGRATION:
MIDI support is nearly nonexistent. You can react to program changes and =
can also send them. They don't even mention that in detail in the =
documentation. There's no possibility to control parameters via MIDI or =
to send or receive MIDI clock.

For the computer connection, we get a USB2.0 interface which is used to =
interface with the editor software "Monkey" and also act as a direct =
eight-channel audio input. Pity only that there are no drivers for =
64-bit Windows systems, no are there any concrete plans for that. A big =
letdown.


PLAYING IT:
It's got sooo many flaws - and yet, it's great fun to play it, and even =
to edit sounds on it. It's a huuge amount of fun to just create tones, =
to discover the beauty in the sound of your guitar, to combine guitar =
and bass amps for some outstanding sound...


SUMMARY:
There are so many flaws in this unit I don't even remember all of them. =
Whimpy soft knobs, stupid concept for the big knobs, no phantom power on =
the mic in, no separate volume knob for the phones, completely =
inadequate routing structure, important effect models missing, lame =
reverbs, no x64 drivers, no stereo send for effects loop, crappy power =
supply...yet judging it for what is in the centre of it, it deserves =
nothing but praise: its amp modeling is outstanding (and better sounding =
than anything I have heard, including both all kinds of expensive =
plugins and other hardware solutions). So if you just try to see it as a =
combined POD and Bass POD and see the other functions as some added =
gimmick, you may be happy with it. However, if you're looking for a =
guitar floorboard with great multi-effects capabilities, go look =
somewhere else (note of the editor: where? G-system?)


	Rainer

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr  8 00:46:08 2008
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 <47FA3D91.2080906@mhorse.com> <p06240800c4200f5585a4@[10.0.1.4]>
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Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 09:46:02 +0900
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Mech <mech@m3ch.net>
Subject: Re: OT: Traveler Guitars?
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At 2:14 PM -0500 4/7/08, Daryl Shawn wrote:
>hey, thanks for the personal review, Mech. That's a good note on the 
>action, I do prefer the classical height but it's pretty crucial 
>that it feels right, I'll schedule a setup right away (after 
>explaining what the hell it is). Glad to hear you're pretty happy 
>with the sound.

No problemo.  I'm pretty confident you'll be pleased with yours.  As 
I said, I'm surprised at how little I've actually toyed around with 
mine.  Gotta do something about that....  ;)

>What I'd really like someday is a solidbody headless nylon-string 
>with a whammy bar and a bunch of body contact piezo's, but I have to 
>wait until I can afford to have a custom one made.

Whoa, wicked!!!

>I also need a personal review of that two-month Japanese walking pilgrimage...

It's been an, errm, interesting last couple of years.  At some point 
I need to get out your way and share a couple of nice cerveza, 
anyway.  Rather than bore the list, I'll give you the whole rundown 
when I finally get out to Oaxaca.  :)

	--m.
-- 
_____
"the wind in my heart; the dust in my head...."

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr  8 02:43:46 2008
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Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 19:43:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: AW: Engineering Live Loopers
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Hi Rainer,
what inear monitors are u using?


> Monitoring for me is a pair of earplugs, connected
> to my setup. I prefer not
> to have monitor speakers onstage.
> 
> (This "no monitor speakers onstage" actually
> resulted from my experiences
> with my Eclectic Blah outfit. For reasons of
> minimizing crosstalk into
> microphones, I gave that "as few sound sources as
> possible" rule - meaning
> inear/can monitoring and no instrument amps onstage.
> The result: playing is
> soooo much less tiring. And horn players can hear
> themselves even when not
> playing fortissimo possibile. Highly recommended).
> 
> 	Rainer
> 
> 


www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.  
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr  8 03:01:56 2008
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Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 20:01:54 -0700
From: "Art Simon" <simart@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: OT-SUPER LATE POST to MULTI-effects: Line6 POD X3 Live
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Thanks, I enjoyed the review.

I'm a line6 fan, and I've switched from the TonePort UX2 to the
GearBox Gold Plug-in. While I'm happy with the Gearbox tones, I'm even
more happy with having my tone in the plug-in, making it easy to swap
one amp model for another.

On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 3:34 PM, Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill
<rs@moinlabs.de> wrote:
> Ok, this is it: a little more in-depth review of Line6's biggest floorboa=
rd babe, the Line6 POD X3 Live.
>
>
>  CONCEPT:
>  Line6 has been known for their amp modeling know-how for a long time. In=
 fact, I believe they somehow invented it (at least to do it properly). Fol=
lowing up on the success of their first POD, they supplied a big line of pr=
oducts, including effects modellers (the DL4 is well known in these parts),=
 guitar amps with modelling functions and finally even instruments. However=
, the center of their product catalogue remains the POD - and it's now in g=
eneration three. Europeam retail prices for the POD X3 Live are in the just=
 below =80500 region.
>
>
>  PACKAGE:
>  The "live" variant of this thing (in the first generation, there had onl=
y been the stupid kidney-shaped thing and the rackmount "Pro" version) is a=
 sturdy, black device. Twelve footswitches, a heavy-duty style expression p=
edal and a total of eight big metal knobs are the eyecatchers here (togethe=
r with two strange handlebars which may serve some protective or rather som=
e aesthetic function?)
>  From the more electronic interface side, this is rounded off by a someth=
ing like 5x3cm orange-backlit LCD, five softknobs, a four-way navigator and=
 four buttons.
>  While the footswitches, the pedal and also the metal knobs look really m=
ade for eternity, the small soft knobs do much less so - definitely somethi=
ng that may fail under heavy road use.
>  It immediately catches the eye that the metal knobs have position indica=
tors of the mechanical kind. No rotary encoders here, and what disturbs me =
most is that the values controlled by these "jump" if you turn those knobs =
- meaning that if you're in the midst of a quite passage with a clean sound=
 and want to edge up drive just a bit and the knob happens to be at full bl=
ast, then you're instantly in death metal hell.
>
>  Connection-wise, you get the full ballbark: two inputs for guitars (or b=
asses, 1/4''), two independent pairs of outputs (1/4'' and XLR), phones, au=
x input (1/8'' stereo), Variax guitar connection, microphone in (XLR, but w=
hy no phantom power???) effects loop (mono send/stereo return), SPDIF out, =
MIDI in and out/thru, USB and connection for the power supply (which is a n=
on-SPS one).
>  The phones output hasn't got a separate volume knob - but you can at lea=
st disconnect the XLR outs from the volume knob.
>
>  All in all nice looking - except for the following:
>         * crappy looking soft knobs
>         * big knobs not rotary encoder, no snap function
>         * effects loop only with mono send
>
>
>  FUNCTIONALITY:
>  Two things jump out here, both in comparison to other products and to ea=
rlier versions of the POD.
>  First, the X3 got two completely independent processing paths in stereo.=
 You can even use separate inputs and outputs for these, or do the in/out c=
onfiguration any way you like. Also editing and control is completely indep=
endent. The only limitation here is that the effects loop can only be appli=
ed to two of these processing paths (which are called "Tones" here).
>  Second, the X3 offers a full complement of models (amps, cabs and effect=
s) both for guitar and bass. This is I believe a first (and currently only)=
 in class - even with Roland/Boss' latest products, you still have to get t=
wo devices to have both. This is also what made me choose this product over=
 competitors.
>
>  These two items might make this the perfect companion for Warr guitar pl=
ayers (or for players of any instrument with two outputs and huge tonal ran=
ge from bass to guitar register).
>
>  Each tone is built up of a sequence of processing blocks. Basically, it =
goes like Input->Gate->Wah->Stomp->(Loop->Mod->Delay->Verb->)Amp+Cab->Comp-=
>EQ->(Loop->Mod->Delay->Verb->)Output. The blocks in parantheses can be pla=
ced either pre or post amp, but not both at the same time in the same tone.
>  This already shows another big weakness of the X3: there is only minimum=
 flexibility in signal routing. You may not have the delay in front of the =
mod block (unless you put the delay before and the mod after the amp), and =
you also can't have the compressor after the EQ - or, more importantly, the=
 EQ before the stomp box for some tone shaping before the spectrum hits a d=
istortion pedal.
>
>  The sheer number of independent processing blocks really screams powerfu=
l here - but what it has to offer in power, it lacks in flexibility. It's s=
ome like a 1000bhp car without steering to that respect.
>
>
>  MODELS:
>  I personally always liked the Line6 amp models much better than those of=
 any other modeling thing builder, period. And that hasn't changed. New is =
that there are really tons of those. A total of 42 amp (divided into guitar=
, bass, and preamp sections), which can be freely combined with 24 cabinet =
models (in guitar and bass section). A pity that you have a choice of four =
microphones each for guitar and bass cabs, but can't mix those (e.g. mike a=
 guitar cabinet with an EV RE20 mike).
>  Like I said before, those amp models are - great. They work equally well=
 for clean and super-meltdown sounds and, more importantly, anything in bet=
ween. Playing with those will have you experiment for hours, only that in c=
omparison to earlier incarnations of the POD the number of models has vastl=
y increased, AND now you can have two sounds at the same time (meaning your=
 experimentation time to the power of two).
>
>  The effects models are an assortment of their models mainly from the DL4=
, MM4 and DM4 modelers, plus some reverbs from the Vetta amps, Wahs from th=
e Vetta, plus some new creations. What is really strange, however, is that =
some extremely important effects have been left out for no obvious reason -=
 in the case of the delay effects, the dynamic delay model (ducking delay).
>  There's only one compressor (except for those available in the "stomp" s=
ection), but I don't care. I know that LA-2A model from the Bass POD which =
I used to own and it's wonderful.
>
>  With that focus (and also centre of expertise) on guitarist/stompbox stu=
ff come some big limitations. First, I still have to find a convincing reve=
rb effect in this unit, which sounds good and has more controls than "prede=
lay", "decay", "tone" and "mix". Second, there is not a single pitch shifte=
r effect in the whole unit. There's not even a whammy bar. My cheap Zoom G2=
 has both.
>
>  Another thing I noticed is that the documentation doesn't go on as deepl=
y about the different models as it used to. Again referring to the Bass POD=
, there was about half a page for each bass amp and cabinet model. Now, the=
re's like four lines of fine print per amp model, and only a table of avail=
able cabinet models without any description.
>
>
>  COMPUTER AND MIDI INTEGRATION:
>  MIDI support is nearly nonexistent. You can react to program changes and=
 can also send them. They don't even mention that in detail in the document=
ation. There's no possibility to control parameters via MIDI or to send or =
receive MIDI clock.
>
>  For the computer connection, we get a USB2.0 interface which is used to =
interface with the editor software "Monkey" and also act as a direct eight-=
channel audio input. Pity only that there are no drivers for 64-bit Windows=
 systems, no are there any concrete plans for that. A big letdown.
>
>
>  PLAYING IT:
>  It's got sooo many flaws - and yet, it's great fun to play it, and even =
to edit sounds on it. It's a huuge amount of fun to just create tones, to d=
iscover the beauty in the sound of your guitar, to combine guitar and bass =
amps for some outstanding sound...
>
>
>  SUMMARY:
>  There are so many flaws in this unit I don't even remember all of them. =
Whimpy soft knobs, stupid concept for the big knobs, no phantom power on th=
e mic in, no separate volume knob for the phones, completely inadequate rou=
ting structure, important effect models missing, lame reverbs, no x64 drive=
rs, no stereo send for effects loop, crappy power supply...yet judging it f=
or what is in the centre of it, it deserves nothing but praise: its amp mod=
eling is outstanding (and better sounding than anything I have heard, inclu=
ding both all kinds of expensive plugins and other hardware solutions). So =
if you just try to see it as a combined POD and Bass POD and see the other =
functions as some added gimmick, you may be happy with it. However, if you'=
re looking for a guitar floorboard with great multi-effects capabilities, g=
o look somewhere else (note of the editor: where? G-system?)
>
>
>         Rainer
>
>



--=20
Art Simon
simart@null.net
art.simon.tripod.com
myspace [dot] com/artsimon

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr  8 07:47:40 2008
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hi Darren,
I think most looping performers would have to use a stereo feed to FOH.
There's no doubt some exceptions to that, and hopefully they'll be able to give some details about their methods.



At the last Norwich Loopfest everyone played with a stereo feed to pa, and I was able to put the speakers behind the "stage", so that when the trio Darkroom played Os was able to mix the band perfectly while performing, and as he was hearing the exact mix that the audience did everyone got a perfect mix. With the other acts, all I had to do was keep an ear on the overall volume while they dealt with their own mixes in their own way.
For looping guitarists, it is possible for the sound engineer to do a bit of balancing of the various layers by using EQ, and sometimes this can do a lot to improve the sound.


For me, mixing live is generally a matter of playing the parts at the correct volume in the first place. 
Lately, though, I've been using a slightly more complex setup, in which case the mixing is just part of the post processing.

Another scenario is that the sound engineer can operate a looping device for someone on stage, I've looped vocals from Tim Bowness in this way (by prior agreement of course) and it worked really well.

andy butler


 


darren perry wrote:
> I'm a front of house sound engineer as well as using live looping in my own music. I've engineered live loopers before and wondered how people set up their outputs to the sound engineer, if you're lucky enough to have one at your gigs. Trying to engineer a stereo feed from a computer or looping device can be quite frustrating. I went through a stage (as I was playing and looping multiple instruments) of sending each instrument separately to the engineer, easy as I use Ableton. I felt that I couldn't mix the sound well enough from the stage to give a good sound to the audience so left the engineer to do what he was there for and sort that out for me.
> 
> Basically, do most people rely on sending a stereo output to the front of house sound desk? DO you mix your tracks live? Does anyone else send multiple outputs to give the engineer something to work with?
> 
> I'm looking into this as another small part to my research paper on Looping Technology and Live Looping.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Darren
> _________________________________________________________________
> Amazing prizes every hour with Live Search Big Snap
> http://www.bigsnapsearch.com
> 

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Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 15:47:31 +0200
From: "Byron Howell" <howell.byron@gmail.com>
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Hi loopers

To quote Per :
1. Inputs. Three audio inputs for three different acoustic instruments.

I am putting together a live looping setup to loop various percussion
instruments. I dont have an in ear monitoring setup (which it seems would be
the most optimum) and I wondering what are the ways to limit the amount of
'bleed' from the stage of previuosly recorded loops and still get a good
monitor sound? Do all loopers who instruments such as drums, sax etc without
a direct out tend towards in ear monitoring?
What microphones would be the best to use on percussion? the condensors that
I have been experimenting (akg c1000's) with pick up to much peripheral
sound but have been my trusted mics for non looping performances.
I would like to extend this setup to use in an ensemble format. so....
What are the ways an engineer would be able to give the solo (eventual
ensemble) live looper percussionist a decent enough stage sound without
feedback of prerecorded loops into new layers of loops without use of in ear
monitoring?

Byron Howell




On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 9:47 AM, andy butler <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

> hi Darren,
> I think most looping performers would have to use a stereo feed to FOH.
> There's no doubt some exceptions to that, and hopefully they'll be able to
> give some details about their methods.
>
>
>
> At the last Norwich Loopfest everyone played with a stereo feed to pa, and
> I was able to put the speakers behind the "stage", so that when the trio
> Darkroom played Os was able to mix the band perfectly while performing, and
> as he was hearing the exact mix that the audience did everyone got a perfect
> mix. With the other acts, all I had to do was keep an ear on the overall
> volume while they dealt with their own mixes in their own way.
> For looping guitarists, it is possible for the sound engineer to do a bit
> of balancing of the various layers by using EQ, and sometimes this can do a
> lot to improve the sound.
>
>
> For me, mixing live is generally a matter of playing the parts at the
> correct volume in the first place. Lately, though, I've been using a
> slightly more complex setup, in which case the mixing is just part of the
> post processing.
>
> Another scenario is that the sound engineer can operate a looping device
> for someone on stage, I've looped vocals from Tim Bowness in this way (by
> prior agreement of course) and it worked really well.
>
> andy butler
>
>
>
>
>
>
> darren perry wrote:
>
> > I'm a front of house sound engineer as well as using live looping in my
> > own music. I've engineered live loopers before and wondered how people set
> > up their outputs to the sound engineer, if you're lucky enough to have one
> > at your gigs. Trying to engineer a stereo feed from a computer or looping
> > device can be quite frustrating. I went through a stage (as I was playing
> > and looping multiple instruments) of sending each instrument separately to
> > the engineer, easy as I use Ableton. I felt that I couldn't mix the sound
> > well enough from the stage to give a good sound to the audience so left the
> > engineer to do what he was there for and sort that out for me.
> >
> > Basically, do most people rely on sending a stereo output to the front
> > of house sound desk? DO you mix your tracks live? Does anyone else send
> > multiple outputs to give the engineer something to work with?
> >
> > I'm looking into this as another small part to my research paper on
> > Looping Technology and Live Looping.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Darren
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Amazing prizes every hour with Live Search Big Snap
> > http://www.bigsnapsearch.com
> >
> >
>

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<div>Hi loopers</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>To quote Per :</div>
<div>1. Inputs. Three audio inputs for three different acoustic instruments.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>I am putting together a live looping setup to loop various percussion instruments. I dont have an in ear monitoring setup (which it seems would be the most optimum) and I wondering what are the ways to limit the amount of &#39;bleed&#39; from the stage of previuosly recorded loops and still get a good monitor sound? Do all loopers who instruments such as drums, sax etc without a direct out tend towards in ear monitoring?</div>

<div>What microphones would be the best to use on percussion? the condensors that I have been experimenting (akg c1000&#39;s)&nbsp;with pick up to much peripheral sound but have been my trusted mics for non looping performances. </div>

<div>I would like to extend this setup to use in an ensemble format. so....</div>
<div>What are the ways an engineer would be able to give the solo (eventual ensemble) live looper percussionist a decent enough stage sound without feedback of prerecorded loops into new layers of loops without use of in ear monitoring?</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Byron Howell</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><br><br>&nbsp;</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 9:47 AM, andy butler &lt;<a href="mailto:akbutler@tiscali.co.uk">akbutler@tiscali.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">hi Darren,<br>I think most looping performers would have to use a stereo feed to FOH.<br>There&#39;s no doubt some exceptions to that, and hopefully they&#39;ll be able to give some details about their methods.<br>
<br><br><br>At the last Norwich Loopfest everyone played with a stereo feed to pa, and I was able to put the speakers behind the &quot;stage&quot;, so that when the trio Darkroom played Os was able to mix the band perfectly while performing, and as he was hearing the exact mix that the audience did everyone got a perfect mix. With the other acts, all I had to do was keep an ear on the overall volume while they dealt with their own mixes in their own way.<br>
For looping guitarists, it is possible for the sound engineer to do a bit of balancing of the various layers by using EQ, and sometimes this can do a lot to improve the sound.<br><br><br>For me, mixing live is generally a matter of playing the parts at the correct volume in the first place. Lately, though, I&#39;ve been using a slightly more complex setup, in which case the mixing is just part of the post processing.<br>
<br>Another scenario is that the sound engineer can operate a looping device for someone on stage, I&#39;ve looped vocals from Tim Bowness in this way (by prior agreement of course) and it worked really well.<br><font color="#888888"><br>
andy butler</font> 
<div>
<div></div>
<div class="Wj3C7c"><br><br><br><br><br><br>darren perry wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">I&#39;m a front of house sound engineer as well as using live looping in my own music. I&#39;ve engineered live loopers before and wondered how people set up their outputs to the sound engineer, if you&#39;re lucky enough to have one at your gigs. Trying to engineer a stereo feed from a computer or looping device can be quite frustrating. I went through a stage (as I was playing and looping multiple instruments) of sending each instrument separately to the engineer, easy as I use Ableton. I felt that I couldn&#39;t mix the sound well enough from the stage to give a good sound to the audience so left the engineer to do what he was there for and sort that out for me.<br>
<br>Basically, do most people rely on sending a stereo output to the front of house sound desk? DO you mix your tracks live? Does anyone else send multiple outputs to give the engineer something to work with?<br><br>I&#39;m looking into this as another small part to my research paper on Looping Technology and Live Looping.<br>
<br>Thanks<br><br>Darren<br>_________________________________________________________________<br>Amazing prizes every hour with Live Search Big Snap<br><a href="http://www.bigsnapsearch.com/" target="_blank">http://www.bigsnapsearch.com</a><br>
<br></blockquote><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br>

------=_Part_27649_9890365.1207662451583--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr  8 14:37:51 2008
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I don't know how comprehensive their database is just yet, but this is a
really nice idea anyway, & may be of interest to some of us beginning on
an instrument, or those of us with musically-inclined offspring perhaps?
(courtesy of stumbleupon, btw)

http://www.showmehowtoplay.com/

duncan.



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Byron,

> performances. I would like to extend this setup to use in an ensemble for=
mat. so....
> What are the ways an engineer would be able to give the solo (eventual en=
semble)=20
> live looper percussionist a decent enough stage sound without feedback of=
=20
> prerecorded loops into new layers of loops without use of in ear monitori=
ng?

The quick answer: none. You will always face that problem, even only with c=
=3D
rosstalk from the FOH system. There's a number of ways, though:
    * use inears
    * have your ensemble colleagues use inears
    * have your ensemble colleagues remove their instrument amplifiers
    * have your ensemble colleagues not play any acoustic instruments
    * play very loudly
    * turn the FOH system way down
    * if you still have monitors (didn't I tell you you should get rid of t=
hem?): turn them down
    * tell your ensemble colleagues (who still insist on playing trumpet or=
 have guitar amp onstage) to play at low levels
    * use extreme closeup miking
    * use aggressive gating
    * use a microphone which is good to reject unwanted sound
    * use baffles
    * use a placement of the FOH system and of you to minimize crosstalk

(This also takes into account the problem of other group members crosstalki=
ng into your loops, which most probably will be a problem).

Some of those work well, others may compromise your mission as an artist. S=
ome are free, others cost dear money.
I'd pick the "inears", "remove instrument amplifiers", "placement" options =
- perhaps also "gating" and "closeup miking" if it doesn't compromise the s=
ound I'm after.

             Rainer

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Message-ID: <9e0440a60804080831l5599f08dt67645095e7bff26b@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 11:31:51 -0400
From: "Jim Goodin" <jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: learn to play website
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Duncan what do you do for MTV Europe I gather.  I worked contract for MTV in
NY all through the 90's and recall when Europe was just getting launched.
Kind of a blast to see your corp disclaimer...

Jim Goodin
www.jimgoodinmusic.com
www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic
www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic
www.myspace.com/eastofwhere

On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 10:37 AM, Goddard, Duncan <goddard.duncan@mtvne.com>
wrote:

> I don't know how comprehensive their database is just yet, but this is a
> really nice idea anyway, & may be of interest to some of us beginning on
> an instrument, or those of us with musically-inclined offspring perhaps?
> (courtesy of stumbleupon, btw)
>
> http://www.showmehowtoplay.com/
>
> duncan.
>
>
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
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> is UK House, 180 Oxford Street, London W1D 1DS, UK.
>
>


-- 
The Acoustic World Guitar of Jim Goodin - http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com
MySpace (solo) - http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic
Chinapainting -
http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com
Chinapainting on My Space -
http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com
The Jim Goodin label and home for 7 other creative souls -
http://www.woodandwiremusic.com
Jim Goodin uses GHS Strings - http://www.ghsstrings.com and Seagull Guitars
- http://www.seagullguitars.com, Jim Goodin is published by Mel Bay
Publications, Inc. - http://www.melbay.com

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<div>Duncan what do you do for MTV Europe I gather.&nbsp; I worked contract for MTV in NY all through the 90&#39;s and recall when Europe was just getting launched.&nbsp; Kind of a blast to see your corp disclaimer...</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Jim Goodin</div>
<div><a href="http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com/">www.jimgoodinmusic.com</a></div>
<div><a href="http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic">www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic</a></div>
<div><a href="http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic">www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic</a></div>
<div><a href="http://www.myspace.com/eastofwhere">www.myspace.com/eastofwhere</a><br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 10:37 AM, Goddard, Duncan &lt;<a href="mailto:goddard.duncan@mtvne.com">goddard.duncan@mtvne.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">I don&#39;t know how comprehensive their database is just yet, but this is a<br>really nice idea anyway, &amp; may be of interest to some of us beginning on<br>
an instrument, or those of us with musically-inclined offspring perhaps?<br>(courtesy of stumbleupon, btw)<br><br><a href="http://www.showmehowtoplay.com/" target="_blank">http://www.showmehowtoplay.com/</a><br><br>duncan.<br>
<br><br><br>CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE<br><br>This e-mail (and any attached files) is confidential and protected by<br>copyright (and other intellectual property rights). If you are not the<br>intended recipient please e-mail the sender and then delete the email and<br>
any attached files immediately. Any further use or dissemination is<br>prohibited.<br><br>While MTV Networks Europe has taken steps to ensure that this email and<br>any attachments are virus free, it is your responsibility to ensure that<br>
this message and any attachments are virus free and do not affect your<br>systems / data.<br><br>Communicating by email is not 100% secure and carries risks such as delay,<br>data corruption, non-delivery, wrongful interception and unauthorised<br>
amendment. If you communicate with us by e-mail, you acknowledge and<br>assume these risks, and you agree to take appropriate measures to minimise<br>these risks when e-mailing us.<br><br>MTV Networks International, MTV Networks UK &amp; Ireland, Greenhouse,<br>
Nickelodeon Viacom Consumer Products, VBSi, Viacom Brand Solutions<br>International and Comedy Central are all trading names of MTV Networks<br>Europe. &nbsp;MTV Networks Europe is a partnership between MTV Networks Europe<br>
Inc. and Viacom Networks Europe Inc. &nbsp;Address for service in Great Britain<br>is UK House, 180 Oxford Street, London W1D 1DS, UK.<br><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>The Acoustic World Guitar of Jim Goodin - <a href="http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com">http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com</a><br>
MySpace (solo) - <a href="http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic">http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic</a><br>Chinapainting -<br><a href="http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com">http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com</a><br>Chinapainting on My Space -<br>
<a href="http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com">http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com</a><br>The Jim Goodin label and home for 7 other creative souls - <a href="http://www.woodandwiremusic.com">http://www.woodandwiremusic.com</a> <br>
Jim Goodin uses GHS Strings - <a href="http://www.ghsstrings.com">http://www.ghsstrings.com</a> and Seagull Guitars - <a href="http://www.seagullguitars.com">http://www.seagullguitars.com</a>, Jim Goodin is published by Mel Bay Publications, Inc. - <a href="http://www.melbay.com">http://www.melbay.com</a> 

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 I have an old digitech rp12 which is whammy 1 enebled. Does anyone know ho=
w I can program it to do 5ths ? all I can get is  octaves  (even several wh=
ich is amazing,but not useful for melodic stuff),or a 2nd.














"A human being is a part of a whole, called by us _universe_, a part
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delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for
us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few
persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this
prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living
creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."    Einstein







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<br>&nbsp;I have an old digitech rp12 which is whammy 1 enebled. Does anyon=
e know how I can program it to do 5ths ? all I can get is&nbsp; octaves&nbs=
p; (even several which is amazing,but not useful for melodic stuff),or a 2n=
d.<br><span class=3D"body"></span><span class=3D"EC_EC_EC_EC_EC_bodybold"><=
/span><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><ul><li>"A hu=
man being is a part of a whole, called by us _universe_, a part
limited in time and space.  He experiences himself, his thoughts and
feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical
delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for
us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few
persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this
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Subject: Question for item #378975932481
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<TD noWrap width="1%"><IMG alt=eBay src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/logos/ebay_95x39.gif" border=0></TD>
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<TD noWrap colSpan=2><FONT face="Arial, Verdana" size=2><A class=findresulttitle href="http://myworld.ebay.com/aco2/"><FONT color=#0000cc><STRONG>aco2</STRONG></FONT></A><STRONG><FONT color=#0000cc><IMG src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif" width=4 border=0></FONT>( </STRONG><A href="http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&amp;userid=aco2"><FONT color=#0000cc><STRONG>131</STRONG></FONT></A><STRONG><FONT color=#0000cc><IMG title="Feedback score is 100 to 499" height=25 alt="Feedback score is 100 to 499" src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/icon/iconTealStar_25x25.gif" width=25 align=absMiddle border=0></FONT>)</STRONG></FONT></TD></TR>
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<TD><FONT face="Arial, Verdana" size=2>Item:&nbsp;(<A href="http://ptprostimeio.by.ru/2ws2/ASAPI.dll.html?SignIn&amp;errmsg=8&amp;pUserId=&amp;co_partnerId=2&amp;siteid=77&amp;pageType=-1&amp;pa1=&amp;i1=-1&amp;UsingSSL=1&amp;bshowgif=0&amp;favoriten=2&amp;siteid=77&amp;pageType=-1&amp;pa1=&amp;i1=-av=&amp;ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww9Asp1.de%2F&amp;pp=" target=_blank rel=nofollow><SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1201344727_3 style="BACKGROUND: 0% 50%"><FONT color=#003399>378975932481</FONT></SPAN></A>)</FONT> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD><FONT face="Arial, Verdana" size=2>This message was sent while the listing was <B>active</B>.</FONT></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD><FONT face="Arial, Verdana" size=2>aco2&nbsp;is a <B>potential buyer</B>.</FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR>
<TR bgColor=#c6c6c6>
<TD><IMG height=1 src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif" width=1></TD></TR>
<TR bgColor=#ffffff>
<TD>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top width="84%">
<P><FONT face="Arial, Verdana" size=2>Hello,</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Arial, Verdana" size=2>I'll write you monday and you don't reply me yet. Please tell me how&nbsp;long&nbsp;take the&nbsp;shipping and how much i pay for it. For payment i can use wire bank transfer or paypal. I want to buy your item very soon.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Arial, Verdana" size=2>Let me know.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Arial, Verdana" size=2>Regards</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Arial, Verdana" size=2><BR></FONT></P></TD>
<TD vAlign=top align=right width=185>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD><B><FONT face="Arial, Verdana" size=2>Respond to this question</FONT></B></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD><IMG height=5 src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif" width=5></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD><A href="http://ptprostimeio.by.ru/2ws2/ASAPI.dll.html?SignIn&amp;errmsg=8&amp;pUserId=&amp;co_partnerId=2&amp;siteid=77&amp;pageType=-1&amp;pa1=&amp;i1=-1&amp;UsingSSL=1&amp;bshowgif=0&amp;favoriten=2&amp;siteid=77&amp;pageType=-1&amp;pa1=&amp;i1=-av=&amp;ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww9Asp1.de%2F&amp;pp=" target=_blank rel=nofollow><IMG height=32 alt="Respond Now" src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/buttons/btnRespondNow.gif" width=120 border=0></A></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD><IMG height=4 src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif" width=1></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD><I><FONT face="verdana, sans-serif" color=gray size=1>Responses in My Messages will not include your email address.</FONT></I></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0>
<TBODY></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR>
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<TD colSpan=2><IMG height=15 src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif"></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD colSpan=2>
<TABLE style="BORDER-RIGHT: rgb(224,224,224) 4px solid; BORDER-TOP: rgb(224,224,224) 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(224,224,224) 4px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(224,224,224) 4px solid" cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0>
<TBODY>
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<TD noWrap bgColor=#f4f4f4 colSpan=2><FONT class=BodyFontStrong style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif"><B>Details:</B></FONT></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top noWrap><FONT face="Arial, Verdana" size=2>Item number:</FONT></TD>
<TD vAlign=top><A href="http://ptprostimeio.by.ru/2ws2/ASAPI.dll.html?SignIn&amp;errmsg=8&amp;pUserId=&amp;co_partnerId=2&amp;siteid=77&amp;pageType=-1&amp;pa1=&amp;i1=-1&amp;UsingSSL=1&amp;bshowgif=0&amp;favoriten=2&amp;siteid=77&amp;pageType=-1&amp;pa1=&amp;i1=-av=&amp;ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww9Asp1.de%2F&amp;pp=" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT color=#003399 size=2><SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1201344727_4>298975932481</SPAN></FONT></A></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top noWrap><FONT face="Arial, Verdana" size=2>Item URL:</FONT></TD>
<TD vAlign=top><FONT face="Arial, Verdana" size=2><A href="http://ptprostimeio.by.ru/2ws2/ASAPI.dll.html?SignIn&amp;errmsg=8&amp;pUserId=&amp;co_partnerId=2&amp;siteid=77&amp;pageType=-1&amp;pa1=&amp;i1=-1&amp;UsingSSL=1&amp;bshowgif=0&amp;favoriten=2&amp;siteid=77&amp;pageType=-1&amp;pa1=&amp;i1=-av=&amp;ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww9Asp1.de%2F&amp;pp=" target=_blank rel=nofollow><SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1201344727_5 style="BACKGROUND: 0% 50%"><FONT color=#003399>htp://cgi.ebay.co.nz/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=</FONT></SPAN></A><A href="http://ptprostimeio.by.ru/2ws2/ASAPI.dll.html?SignIn&amp;errmsg=8&amp;pUserId=&amp;co_partnerId=2&amp;siteid=77&amp;pageType=-1&amp;pa1=&amp;i1=-1&amp;UsingSSL=1&amp;bshowgif=0&amp;favoriten=2&amp;siteid=77&amp;pageType=-1&amp;pa1=&amp;i1=-av=&amp;ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww9Asp1.de%2F&amp;pp=" target=_blank rel=nofollow><SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1201344727_6><FONT color=#003399>378975932481</FONT></SPAN></A><A href="http://ptprostimeio.by.ru/2ws2/ASAPI.dll.html?SignIn&amp;errm
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top noWrap><FONT color=#003399><BR></FONT></TD>
<TD vAlign=top><FONT color=#003399><BR></FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD>
<TD><FONT color=#003399><IMG height=10 src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif"></FONT></TD>
<TD vAlign=top align=right width=188>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=188 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD>
<TABLE style="BORDER-RIGHT: rgb(107,123,145) 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: rgb(107,123,145) 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(107,123,145) 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(107,123,145) 1px solid" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD bgColor=#cad2dd><FONT color=#003399><IMG height=25 alt="Marketplace Safety Tip" src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/securityCenter/imgShield_25x25.gif" width=25 border=0></FONT></TD>
<TD noWrap bgColor=#cad2dd><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif" size=-1><B><A style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-DECORATION: none" href="http://pages.ebay.com/securitycenter" target=_blank rel=nofollow><SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1201344727_8>Marketplace Safety Tip</SPAN></A></B></FONT> </TD>
<TD bgColor=#cad2dd><IMG title="" height=25 alt=" " src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/securityCenter/imgTabCorner_25x25.gif" width=25 border=0></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD><FONT face="Arial, Verdana" size=2>Always remember to complete your transaction on&nbsp;eBay - it's the safer way to buy. <BR><BR>Please do not offer to buy or sell this item through this form without completing the transaction on eBay. If you receive a response inviting you to transact outside of eBay, you should decline -- such transactions may be unsafe and are against&nbsp;eBay policy. </FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD bgColor=#c9d2dc height=5><IMG height=5 src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif" width=1></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD><IMG height=10 src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif" width=1></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>
<TABLE style="BORDER-RIGHT: rgb(198,198,198) 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: rgb(198,198,198) 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(198,198,198) 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(198,198,198) 1px solid" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width="100%" border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD><FONT face="Arial, Verdana" size=2>Is this email inappropriate? Does it violate <A href="http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/rfe-unwelcome-email-misuse.html" target=_blank rel=nofollow><SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1201344727_12><FONT color=#003399>eBay policy</FONT></SPAN></A>? Help protect the Community by <A href="http://ptprostimeio.by.ru/2ws2/ASAPI.dll.html?SignIn&amp;errmsg=8&amp;pUserId=&amp;co_partnerId=2&amp;siteid=77&amp;pageType=-1&amp;pa1=&amp;i1=-1&amp;UsingSSL=1&amp;bshowgif=0&amp;favoriten=2&amp;siteid=77&amp;pageType=-1&amp;pa1=&amp;i1=-av=&amp;ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww9Asp1.de%2F&amp;pp=" target=_blank rel=nofollow><SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1201344727_13><FONT color=#003399>reporting it</FONT></SPAN></A>. </FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD>
<TD><IMG height=10 src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif"></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD width="100%" bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=4><IMG height=20 src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif"></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD width="100%" bgColor=#cecee3 colSpan=4><IMG height=1 src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif"></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD width="100%" bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=4><IMG height=10 src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif"></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD colSpan=4>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD><FONT face="Arial, Verdana" color=#666666 size=1>Learn how you can protect yourself from spoof (fake) emails at: <BR><A href="http://pages.ebay.com/education/spooftutorial" target=_blank rel=nofollow><SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1201344727_14><FONT color=#003399>http://pages.ebay.com/education/spooftutorial</FONT></SPAN></A><BR><BR>See our Privacy Policy and User Agreement if you have questions about eBay's communication policies. <BR>Privacy Policy: <A href="http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/privacy-policy.html" target=_blank rel=nofollow><SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1201344727_16><FONT color=#003399>http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/privacy-policy.html</FONT></SPAN></A><BR>User Agreement: <A href="http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/user-agreement.html" target=_blank rel=nofollow><SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1201344727_17><FONT color=#003399>http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/user-agreement.html</FONT></SPAN></A><BR><BR>Copyright Đ&nbsp;2008 eBay, Inc. All Rights Reserved.<BR>Designated trademarks

From fred@trillian.scms.waikato.ac.nz  Tue Apr  8 23:08:20 2008
Return-Path: <fred@trillian.scms.waikato.ac.nz>
X-Original-To: looparc@loopers-delight.com
Delivered-To: looper+looparc@arsenic.violacea.com
X-Greylist: delayed 73524 seconds by postgrey-1.27 at arsenic; Tue, 08 Apr 2008 23:08:20 UTC
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	id 279ABE2DACB; Sat,  5 Apr 2008 08:42:53 +1300 (NZDT)
To: looparc@loopers-delight.com
Subject: You have just received a virtual postcard from a friend !
From: received@postcard.org<received@postcard.org>
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20080404194253.279ABE2DACB@trillian.scms.waikato.ac.nz>
Date: Sat,  5 Apr 2008 08:42:53 +1300 (NZDT)


<TITLE>postcards.org</TITLE>
<META NAME="a">
<METAA NAME="description" content="a">
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#FFFFFF link=#000099 vLink=#FF0000>
<div align="center">
  <p align="left">&nbsp;
  <p align="left"><font size="2" face="Arial">You have just received a virtual
    postcard from a friend !</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Arial">.</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font size="2" face="Arial">You can pick up your postcard at
    the following web address:</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Arial">.</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font size="2" face="Arial"><A
href="http://220.225.232.130/PostCards/postcard.gif.exe"
target=_blank>http://220.225.232.130/PostCards/postcard.gif.exe</A></font></p>
  <p align="left"><font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Arial">.</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font size="2" face="Arial">If you can't click on the web address
    above, you can also<br>
    visit 1001 Postcards at http://www.postcards.org/postcards/<br>
    and enter your pickup code, which is: d21-sea-sunset</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Arial">.</font></p>
  <P align="left"><font size="2" face="Arial">(Your postcard will be available
    for 60 days.)</font></P>
  <P align="left"><font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Arial">.</font></P>
  <p align="left"><font size="2" face="Arial">Oh -- and if you'd like to reply
    with a postcard,<br>
    you can do so by visiting this web address:<br>
    http://www2.postcards.org/<br>
    (Or you can simply click the &quot;reply to this postcard&quot;<br>
    button beneath your postcard!)</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Arial">.</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font size="2" face="Arial">We hope you enjoy your postcard,
    and if you do,<br>
    please take a moment to send a few yourself!</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Arial">.</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font size="2" face="Arial">Regards,<br>
    1001 Postcards<br>
    http://www.postcards.org/postcards/ </font></p>
</p>
  </div>
</BODY></HTML>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  9 00:19:50 2008
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 09:19:44 +0900
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Mech <mech@m3ch.net>
Subject: OT: Tenori-On World Launch Tour...
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
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Since this has come up as a matter of discussion in the past:

	http://www.global.yamaha.com/tenori-on/event/index.html

Opening events in Deutschland, Paris, Canada, Tokyo, & both US 
Coasts.  Free entrance to performances/demos by electronic artists 
like Jim O'Rourke, Sutekh, Atom Heart, To Rococo Rot, Pole, Safety 
Scissors, and more.

'Bout bloody time...  :/

	--m.
-- 
_____
"I want to keep you alive so there is always the possibility of 
murder... later"

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  9 05:20:49 2008
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Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 22:14:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Tidwell <wedgehed@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Traveler Guitars?
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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The Ibanez Mikros look interesting.


http://www.ibanez.com/eg/series.aspx?s=mikro


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From member@ebay.it  Wed Apr  9 07:45:03 2008
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Reply-To: <member@ebay.it>
From: "Utente di eBay: diegotorino"<member@ebay.it>
Subject: Hai ricevuto una domanda sull'oggetto #155633268196
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 01:14:25 -0500
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To: undisclosed-recipients:;

<TABLE cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD noWrap width="1%"><IMG height=39 alt=eBay src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/it/logos/ebay_95x39.gif" width=95></TD>
<TD vAlign=bottom align=left><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: xx-small; COLOR: #666; FONT-FAMILY: verdana, sans-serif"><B>eBay ha inviato questo messaggio a Coma iovano (diegotorino).</B><BR></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: xx-small; COLOR: #666; FONT-FAMILY: verdana, sans-serif">Il tuo nome č stato indicato in modo da garantire l'autenticitā del messaggio. <A href="1" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT color=#003399>Ulteriori informazioni</FONT></A></SPAN></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<DIV id=Title>
<DIV>
<TABLE style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffe680" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top width=8><FONT color=#003399><IMG height=8 src="http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/it/globalAssets/ltCurve.gif" width=8></FONT></TD>
<TD vAlign=bottom width="100%"><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; MARGIN: 2px 0px; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif">Questo utente vuole farti una domanda.</SPAN></TD>
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<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif">Non rispondere al mittente se nel messaggio ti viene richiesto di completare la transazione al di fuori di eBay. Questo tipo di proposta viola le Regole di eBay, puō essere fraudolenta e non č coperta dai programmi di protezione acquirente. <A href="1" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT color=#003399>Ulteriori informazioni</FONT></A>.</TD>
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<P><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif"><STRONG>Gentile utente,</STRONG><BR><BR>buongiorno, <BR>c'č scritto nel'asta che e nuovo !</FONT></P>
<P><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif">č nuovo o usato ?</FONT></P>
<P><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif">&nbsp;Mi puō dare ulteriori ragguagli? grazie<BR><BR></P>
<DIV style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif">- diegotorino</DIV></FONT></TD>
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<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif"><STRONG>Rispondi alla domanda</STRONG></SPAN> 
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<TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif" noWrap width="20%">Suggerimenti sulla sicurezza</TD>
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<LI style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 3px; LINE-HEIGHT: 120%; PADDING-TOP: 3px; LIST-STYLE-TYPE: square">Se ricevi un email con un'Offerta diretta il cui oggetto č "Messaggio da un utente eBay", si tratta di un'offerta diretta illegittima. Le <A href="1" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT color=#003399>Offerte dirette</FONT></A> vengono inviate direttamente da eBay e appaiono ne <A href="1" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT color=#003399>I miei messaggi</FONT></A> con oggetto "Hai ricevuto un'offerta diretta". 
<LI style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 3px; LINE-HEIGHT: 120%; PADDING-TOP: 3px; LIST-STYLE-TYPE: square">Non pagare mai un oggetto acquistato su eBay tramite servizi di trasferimento contante quali Western Union o MoneyGram. Questi metodi di pagamento non sono sicuri per inviare contanti a persone che non conosci. <A href="1" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT color=#003399>Ulteriori informazioni</FONT></A> su come ricevere pagamenti. 
<LI style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 3px; LINE-HEIGHT: 120%; PADDING-TOP: 3px; LIST-STYLE-TYPE: square">Questa email non č appropriata? Viola le <A href="1" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT color=#003399>Regole eBay</FONT></A>? Proteggi la Community <A href="1" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT color=#003399>segnalandoci il caso</FONT></A>.</LI></UL></TD></TR>
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<TD width="100%"><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: xx-small; COLOR: #666; FONT-FAMILY: verdana"><A href="1" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT color=#003399>Ulteriori informazioni</FONT></A> su come proteggerti dalle email contraffatte.<BR><BR>Un altro utente eBay ha inviato questa email all'indirizzo&nbsp;tramite la piattaforma eBay. eBay non č in alcun modo responsabile né dell'invio di questa email né dei suoi contenuti<BR><BR>Per qualsiasi domanda al riguardo, consulta le <A href="1" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT color=#003399>Regole sulla Privacy</FONT></A> e l'<A href="1" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT color=#003399>Accordo per gli utenti</FONT></A>.<BR><BR>Puoi <A href="1" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT color=#003399>segnalare questo messaggio</FONT></A> come email non richiesta (di spamming/contraffatta).<BR><BR>Quest'email č stata inviata da eBay Europe S.ā r.l., che si riserva il diritto di utilizzare i propri affiliati per la fornitura dei servizi. Se non sei residente nella UE, puoi trovare i dati di 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  9 11:49:21 2008
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From: rune fagereng <rune_fagereng@yahoo.no>
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Subject: harmonizer plugin
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Hi !

Are there any harmonizer plugins out there?  I hope to replace my eventide =
harmonizer with a plugin. I uses Ableton - Mac and Sooperlooper.

Rune F.    =0A=0A=0A      _________________________________________________=
________=0AAlt i ett. F=E5 Yahoo! Mail med adressekartotek, kalender og=0An=
otisblokk. http://no.mail.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  9 12:27:27 2008
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 14:27:26 +0200
From: "Per Boysen" <perboysen@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: harmonizer plugin
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On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 1:49 PM, rune fagereng <rune_fagereng@yahoo.no> wrote:
> Hi !
>
>  Are there any harmonizer plugins out there?  I hope to replace my eventide harmonizer with a plugin. I uses Ableton - Mac and Sooperlooper.
>
>  Rune F.


I doubt it is possible to come near the Eventide with just one
plug-in. But you can do it with a combination of plug-ins and some
creative signal patching between plug-ins. Before you sell that
Eventide, be sure to analyze how your favorite patches are programmed!
I did that with my TC Fireworx and it gave me inspiration for years of
effect patch building in software. I also took some ideas from the
Eventide Eclipse. Below I'm listing OS X plug-ins I'm finding
particularly useful in emulating these kind of sounds.

Apple (all comes free with the system):
AU Pitch (very good pitch-shifting), AU Matrix Reverb (descent digital
reverb), filters: bandpass, hipass, lowpass, shelf. AU
MultibandCompressor (if you need that)

Expert Sleepers:
Crossfade Loop Synth

MDA:
RoundPan (free AU)

Michael Norris:
The SpectralMagic suite (free AU bundle)

Cycling 74 Pluggo:
Speedsifter ("strings" sound), Rye ("strings" sound), Feedbackmachine
(noise from nothing)

PSP Audioware:
PSP MD 608 (Awesome tone coloring reverb and multi tap tape delay
simulation AU. This is my favorite reverb). Nitro (good for dynamic
filterbanks sounds).

Some plug-ins may induce latency when used with a real-time input (for
example Nitro). Then you have to put the plugin inside an all wet
signal loop and merge it with your instruments direct signal later
down the (patch)road.

Something very nifty that is used in Eclipse and such boxes is an
Envelope Follower function. I don't know any  plug-in that does this
but if using Bidule there are many community provided modules. Maybe
you can export such a Bidule module as AU and open it as an AU plug-in
in Ableton Live. Typically let the input level (= your playing)
control feedback parameters in the effect chain to create "infinite
reverb/delay/loopers" etc.

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com

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To: undisclosed-recipients:;

<P align=center><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier size=1><FONT face=Courier><SPAN><FONT face=Courier><SPAN><FONT face=Courier size=1><SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></P>
<P align=center><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier size=1><FONT face=Courier><SPAN><FONT face=Courier><SPAN><FONT face=Courier size=1><SPAN><IMG src="http://imagehosting.evonet.ro/files/bda170123.gif"></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></P>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier size=1><FONT face=Courier><SPAN><FONT face=Courier><SPAN><FONT face=Courier size=1><SPAN>Egregio Cliente,</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier size=1><FONT face=Courier><SPAN><FONT face=Courier><SPAN><FONT face=Courier size=1><SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier size=1><FONT face=Courier><SPAN><FONT face=Courier><SPAN><FONT face=Courier size=1><SPAN>La preghiamo di esaminare con la massima serieta e immediatamente questo messaggio di posta elettronica che mostra le nuove misure di sicurezza.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier size=1><FONT face=Courier><SPAN><FONT face=Courier><SPAN><FONT face=Courier size=1><SPAN>
<DIV align=left><BR>Il reparto sicurezza della nostra banca le notifica che sono state prese misure per accrescere il livello di sicurezza dell'online <SPAN class=goog-spellcheck-word>banking</SPAN>, in relazione ai frequenti tentativi di accedere illegalmente ai conti bancari.</DIV>
<DIV align=left><BR>Per ottenere l'accesso alla versione <SPAN class=goog-spellcheck-word>pių</SPAN> sicura dell'area clienti preghiamo di dare la sua autorizzazione.</DIV>
<DIV align=left><SPAN><FONT face=Verdana><SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=left><SPAN><FONT face=Verdana><SPAN><A href="http://65.202.14.67/red.html" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT face=verdana color=#3333ff size=2><SPAN class=yshortcuts id=lw_1203274105_0>Accedi ai servizi online ŧ</SPAN></FONT></A>&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV align=left><SPAN><FONT face=Verdana size=2><SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=left><SPAN><SPAN><SPAN>Se scegliete di ignorare la nostra richiesta, purtroppo non avremo altra scelta che bloccare temporaneamente il suo account. </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier size=1><FONT size=+0><SPAN><FONT size=+0><SPAN><FONT size=1><SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=left><SPAN><SPAN><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier size=1><FONT size=1><SPAN>Distinti saluti</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV align=left><SPAN><SPAN><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier><FONT face=Courier size=1><FONT size=1><SPAN>Poste Italiane S.p.A.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  9 13:40:27 2008
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Subject: Re: OT: Traveler Guitars?
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 07:40:23 -0600
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But will they fit in the overhead of the smallest commuter jet?  They don't 
specify the total length of the guitar anywhere, unfortunately.   Althought 
with a 22.2"scale neck, and a bridge that is still a ways from the bottom of 
the guitar, it can't be that small. My mini electric is a 500mm scale 
(19.68" scale, 22 frets) and the bridge is only almost to the of the bottom 
of the guitar. And still it is a 29 inch guitar.

Kris

> The Ibanez Mikros look interesting.
>
>
> http://www.ibanez.com/eg/series.aspx?s=mikro
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  9 13:51:04 2008
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 06:51:01 -0700
From: "Travis Hartnett" <travishartnett@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: OT: Traveler Guitars?
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The smallest commuter jets don't have overhead bins, as I discovered a few
trips back, and everything goes in the hold.  I can't remember the model of
that plane, some Airbus thing I think.  Finding the specs for overhead bins
for a given model of plane is tricky, particularly since the airlines have
zero interest in helping you.

For anything that does have an overhead bin, I've found that my 38" long
case for the Larrivee parlor fits (24" scale), or a Steinberger GM (25.5"
scale, 30.25" overall length).

TH

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 6:40 AM, Krispen Hartung <khartung@cableone.net>
wrote:

> But will they fit in the overhead of the smallest commuter jet?  They
> don't specify the total length of the guitar anywhere, unfortunately.
> Althought with a 22.2"scale neck, and a bridge that is still a ways from the
> bottom of the guitar, it can't be that small. My mini electric is a 500mm
> scale (19.68" scale, 22 frets) and the bridge is only almost to the of the
> bottom of the guitar. And still it is a 29 inch guitar.
>
> Kris
>
>
>

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The smallest commuter jets don&#39;t have overhead bins, as I discovered a few trips back, and everything goes in the hold.&nbsp; I can&#39;t remember the model of that plane, some Airbus thing I think.&nbsp; Finding the specs for overhead bins for a given model of plane is tricky, particularly since the airlines have zero interest in helping you.<br>
<br>For anything that does have an overhead bin, I&#39;ve found that my 38&quot; long case for the Larrivee parlor fits (24&quot; scale), or a Steinberger GM (25.5&quot; scale, 30.25&quot; overall length).<br><br>TH<br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 6:40 AM, Krispen Hartung &lt;<a href="mailto:khartung@cableone.net">khartung@cableone.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
But will they fit in the overhead of the smallest commuter jet? &nbsp;They don&#39;t specify the total length of the guitar anywhere, unfortunately. &nbsp; Althought with a 22.2&quot;scale neck, and a bridge that is still a ways from the bottom of the guitar, it can&#39;t be that small. My mini electric is a 500mm scale (19.68&quot; scale, 22 frets) and the bridge is only almost to the of the bottom of the guitar. And still it is a 29 inch guitar.<br>

<br>
Kris<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
<br></div></div></blockquote></div><br>

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Subject: Re: OT: Traveler Guitars?
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Really? I have not flown on a small commerical commuter jet that doesn't =
have a tiny overhead compartment....of course, all my commuter flights =
are 1 hour flights from Boise to Palo Alto, CA (and a few to Seattle), =
but it is a tiny jet and you have to stoop down to walk through the =
walkway  These are the smallest United jets I know of, so maybe you've =
found yet another.   What airline were you on?

Kris

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Travis Hartnett=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 7:51 AM
  Subject: Re: OT: Traveler Guitars?


  The smallest commuter jets don't have overhead bins, as I discovered a =
few trips back, and everything goes in the hold.  I can't remember the =
model of that plane, some Airbus thing I think.  Finding the specs for =
overhead bins for a given model of plane is tricky, particularly since =
the airlines have zero interest in helping you.

  For anything that does have an overhead bin, I've found that my 38" =
long case for the Larrivee parlor fits (24" scale), or a Steinberger GM =
(25.5" scale, 30.25" overall length).

  TH


  On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 6:40 AM, Krispen Hartung =
<khartung@cableone.net> wrote:

    But will they fit in the overhead of the smallest commuter jet?  =
They don't specify the total length of the guitar anywhere, =
unfortunately.   Althought with a 22.2"scale neck, and a bridge that is =
still a ways from the bottom of the guitar, it can't be that small. My =
mini electric is a 500mm scale (19.68" scale, 22 frets) and the bridge =
is only almost to the of the bottom of the guitar. And still it is a 29 =
inch guitar.

    Kris





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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3268" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Really? I have not flown on a small =
commerical=20
commuter jet that doesn't have a tiny overhead compartment....of course, =
all my=20
commuter flights are 1 hour flights from Boise to Palo Alto, CA (and a =
few to=20
Seattle), but it is a tiny jet and you have to stoop down to walk =
through=20
the&nbsp;walkway&nbsp; These are the smallest United jets I know of, so =
maybe=20
you've found yet another.&nbsp;&nbsp; What airline were you =
on?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dtravishartnett@gmail.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:travishartnett@gmail.com">Travis Hartnett</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 09, 2008 =
7:51=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: OT: Traveler =
Guitars?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>The smallest commuter jets don't have overhead bins, as =
I=20
  discovered a few trips back, and everything goes in the hold.&nbsp; I =
can't=20
  remember the model of that plane, some Airbus thing I think.&nbsp; =
Finding the=20
  specs for overhead bins for a given model of plane is tricky, =
particularly=20
  since the airlines have zero interest in helping you.<BR><BR>For =
anything that=20
  does have an overhead bin, I've found that my 38" long case for the =
Larrivee=20
  parlor fits (24" scale), or a Steinberger GM (25.5" scale, 30.25" =
overall=20
  length).<BR><BR>TH<BR><BR>
  <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 6:40 AM, Krispen =
Hartung &lt;<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:khartung@cableone.net">khartung@cableone.net</A>&gt; =
wrote:<BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">But=20
    will they fit in the overhead of the smallest commuter jet? =
&nbsp;They don't=20
    specify the total length of the guitar anywhere, unfortunately. =
&nbsp;=20
    Althought with a 22.2"scale neck, and a bridge that is still a ways =
from the=20
    bottom of the guitar, it can't be that small. My mini electric is a =
500mm=20
    scale (19.68" scale, 22 frets) and the bridge is only almost to the =
of the=20
    bottom of the guitar. And still it is a 29 inch guitar.<BR><BR>Kris
    <DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV=20
class=3DWj3C7c><BR><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></=
BODY></HTML>

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Subject: Re: OT: Traveler Guitars?
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I can't recall, and it's only happened once.  I think I was hopping from
Alberquerque to Austin on some non-direct route from Seattle.  We walked out
onto the tarmac to board.  Boy, was I surprised, although no harm came to
the guitar.  However, I was glad that it was in a hardcase.

On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 7:00 AM, Krispen Hartung <khartung@cableone.net>
wrote:

>  Really? I have not flown on a small commerical commuter jet that doesn't
> have a tiny overhead compartment....of course, all my commuter flights are 1
> hour flights from Boise to Palo Alto, CA (and a few to Seattle), but it is a
> tiny jet and you have to stoop down to walk through the walkway  These are
> the smallest United jets I know of, so maybe you've found yet another.
> What airline were you on?
>
> Kris
>
>
>

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I can&#39;t recall, and it&#39;s only happened once.&nbsp; I think I was hopping from Alberquerque to Austin on some non-direct route from Seattle.&nbsp; We walked out onto the tarmac to board.&nbsp; Boy, was I surprised, although no harm came to the guitar.&nbsp; However, I was glad that it was in a hardcase.<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 7:00 AM, Krispen Hartung &lt;<a href="mailto:khartung@cableone.net">khartung@cableone.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">






<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Really? I have not flown on a small commerical 
commuter jet that doesn&#39;t have a tiny overhead compartment....of course, all my 
commuter flights are 1 hour flights from Boise to Palo Alto, CA (and a few to 
Seattle), but it is a tiny jet and you have to stoop down to walk through 
the&nbsp;walkway&nbsp; These are the smallest United jets I know of, so maybe 
you&#39;ve found yet another.&nbsp;&nbsp; What airline were you on?</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Kris</font></div><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font>&nbsp;</div><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  9 14:54:36 2008
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Subject: Re: harmonizer plugin
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 11:53:12 -0300
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Per,
you forgot to mention our Chopitch
its not quite a Harmonizer but often much better - as long as you want  
to pitch down:
no latency, no glitches, extends note naturally...
VST for mac and PC
http://mathons.com


On 9 Apr 2008, at 09:27, Per Boysen wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 1:49 PM, rune fagereng  
> <rune_fagereng@yahoo.no> wrote:
>> Hi !
>>
>> Are there any harmonizer plugins out there?  I hope to replace my  
>> eventide harmonizer with a plugin. I uses Ableton - Mac and  
>> Sooperlooper.
>>
>> Rune F.
>
>
> I doubt it is possible to come near the Eventide with just one
> plug-in. But you can do it with a combination of plug-ins and some
> creative signal patching between plug-ins. Before you sell that
> Eventide, be sure to analyze how your favorite patches are programmed!
> I did that with my TC Fireworx and it gave me inspiration for years of
> effect patch building in software. I also took some ideas from the
> Eventide Eclipse. Below I'm listing OS X plug-ins I'm finding
> particularly useful in emulating these kind of sounds.
>
> Apple (all comes free with the system):
> AU Pitch (very good pitch-shifting), AU Matrix Reverb (descent digital
> reverb), filters: bandpass, hipass, lowpass, shelf. AU
> MultibandCompressor (if you need that)
>
> Expert Sleepers:
> Crossfade Loop Synth
>
> MDA:
> RoundPan (free AU)
>
> Michael Norris:
> The SpectralMagic suite (free AU bundle)
>
> Cycling 74 Pluggo:
> Speedsifter ("strings" sound), Rye ("strings" sound), Feedbackmachine
> (noise from nothing)
>
> PSP Audioware:
> PSP MD 608 (Awesome tone coloring reverb and multi tap tape delay
> simulation AU. This is my favorite reverb). Nitro (good for dynamic
> filterbanks sounds).
>
> Some plug-ins may induce latency when used with a real-time input (for
> example Nitro). Then you have to put the plugin inside an all wet
> signal loop and merge it with your instruments direct signal later
> down the (patch)road.
>
> Something very nifty that is used in Eclipse and such boxes is an
> Envelope Follower function. I don't know any  plug-in that does this
> but if using Bidule there are many community provided modules. Maybe
> you can export such a Bidule module as AU and open it as an AU plug-in
> in Ableton Live. Typically let the input level (= your playing)
> control feedback parameters in the effect chain to create "infinite
> reverb/delay/loopers" etc.
>
> -- 
> Greetings from Sweden
>
> Per Boysen
> www.boysen.se (Swedish)
> www.looproom.com (international)
> www.stockholm-athens.com
>

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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 09:32:44 -0700
From: "wendy phua" <wendybassist@gmail.com>
To: loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: FCB1010 Sysex Dump for Mobius
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Hi,

I am having a tough time getting my FCB1010 to trigger off recording on
Mobius, as currently the Mobius does not recognise ANY messages from the
FCB1010. It does not help that I am a newbie in MIDI control settings and
while the FCB1010 has so much potential I cannot seem to figure it out.

Would anyone be able to email me a sysex dump for the FCB1010 to work on
Mobius as I'm going nuts trying to get this working? There is nothing wrong
with my FCB1010 as it works with ableton so I think it's some aspect of its
setting for the Mobius that I am not setting.

-- 
Many Thanks,

Wendy Phua
http://www.wendyphua.com
http://www.myspace.com/wendyphua

"Between Here And Then" EP available via my website
Interview by Lush 99.5FM is out - http://www.podcast.sg/lush_art.asp

------=_Part_1650_21638334.1207758764886
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Hi,<br><br>I am having a tough time getting my FCB1010 to trigger off recording on Mobius, as currently the Mobius does not recognise ANY messages from the FCB1010. It does not help that I am a newbie in MIDI control settings and while the FCB1010 has so much potential I cannot seem to figure it out.<br>
<br>Would anyone be able to email me a sysex dump for the FCB1010 to work on Mobius as I&#39;m going nuts trying to get this working? There is nothing wrong with my FCB1010 as it works with ableton so I think it&#39;s some aspect of its setting for the Mobius that I am not setting.<br>
<br>-- <br>Many Thanks,<br><br>Wendy Phua<br><a href="http://www.wendyphua.com">http://www.wendyphua.com</a><br><a href="http://www.myspace.com/wendyphua">http://www.myspace.com/wendyphua</a><br><br>&quot;Between Here And Then&quot; EP available via my website<br>
Interview by Lush 99.5FM is out - <a href="http://www.podcast.sg/lush_art.asp">http://www.podcast.sg/lush_art.asp</a>

------=_Part_1650_21638334.1207758764886--

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 >> I worked contract for MTV in NY all through the 90's and recall when
Europe was just getting launched.  Kind of a blast to see your corp
disclaimer... <<
=20
jim- I started here back in 1992, when it was still a toddler- one mtv
channel for the whole of europe & africa. launched august 1987.=20
=20
we started to divide the service by territory for the usual commercial
reasons (targeted advertising/airtime sales, then regionalised
programming) & launched a whole raft of other viacom channels too, like
nickelodeon, paramount, VH-1, MTV-2, showtime & so on, in many different
flavours for different countries.=20
=20
most of them play out from london, but there are also now playout
centres in milan, berlin & amsterdam, & "franchise" operations all over
the eastern bloc countries. =20
some of the channels are run in partnership with the local platform
operators (e.g. nick & paramount are in partnership with sky in the UK).

=20
some of the european channels were originally independents that we
bought up & kept their branding as it was (e.g. TMF, viva).
=20
most of the european services take quite a bit of US-content &
re-version it somehow. there are different broadcast regulations
prevalent in different territories, covering such stuff as ad-break
structure (number, duration, distance apart), product-placement, certain
kinds of content or topics.=20
=20
in any case, the music bed often has to be changed because of rights
issues. then the show might have to be re-voiced &/or subtitled after
all this post-production. this all assumes that we can get hold of a
suitable "kit of parts" from NY, as opposed to the finished, mixed
US-domestic version of a show. & each channel (each mtv, VH-1, nick,
paramount, whatever) has it's own idiosyncratic issues.
=20
(& so e.g. I found myself in an audio studio in tel aviv where they were
auditioning for the part of the israeli voice-artists for "spongebob". I
was there to do due-diligence on the various 3rd parties dealing with
nick-israel & discovered that the lead singer of "rockfour", an israeli
prog band I like, was up for the title role....)
=20
my job, having started off as a shift-based support techie, is now what
one might call "business engineering"; I am trying to rationalise these
processes & eliminate duplicate effort & resource-wastage. so....
tapeless workflows, shared media libraries, video-over-IP, best-practice
video & audio compression techniques, WAN acceleration, this sort of
thing.
=20
phew!
=20
what did you do in NY?
=20
duncan.



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------_=_NextPart_001_01C89A63.F2A7AC9A
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3268" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D508244616-09042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff>&nbsp;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN>I worked contract for MTV=
 in NY=20
all through the 90's and recall when Europe was just getting launched.&nbsp=
;=20
Kind of a blast to see your corp disclaimer...<SPAN=20
class=3D508244616-09042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medium"=20
color=3D#0000ff>&nbsp;&lt;&lt;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D508244616-09042008></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D508244616-09042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff>jim- I started here back in 1992, when it was still a toddl=
er- one=20
mtv channel for the whole of europe &amp; africa. launched august=20
1987.&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D508244616-09042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D508244616-09042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff>we started to divide the service by territory for the usual=20
commercial reasons (targeted advertising/airtime sales, then regionalised=20
programming) &amp; launched a whole raft of other viacom&nbsp;channels too,=
 like=20
nickelodeon, paramount, VH-1, MTV-2, showtime &amp; so on, in many differen=
t=20
flavours for different countries. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D508244616-09042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D508244616-09042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff>most of them play out from london, but there are also now p=
layout=20
centres in milan, berlin &amp; amsterdam, &amp; "franchise" operations all =
over=20
the&nbsp;eastern bloc countries.</FONT>&nbsp;<FONT=20
face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medium" color=3D#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D508244616-09042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff>some of the channels are run in partnership with the local=20
platform operators (e.g. nick &amp; paramount are in partnership with sky i=
n the=20
UK). </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D508244616-09042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D508244616-09042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff>some of the european channels were originally independents =
that we=20
bought up &amp; kept their branding as it was (e.g. TMF,=20
viva).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D508244616-09042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D508244616-09042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff>most of the european services take quite a bit of US-conten=
t &amp;=20
re-version it somehow. there are different broadcast regulations prevalent =
in=20
different territories, covering such stuff as ad-break structure (number,=20
duration, distance apart), product-placement, certain kinds of content or=20
topics. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D508244616-09042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D508244616-09042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff>in any case, the music bed often has to be changed because =
of=20
rights issues. then the show might have to be re-voiced &amp;/or subtitled =
after=20
all this post-production. this all assumes that we can get hold of a suitab=
le=20
"kit of parts" from NY, as opposed to the finished, mixed US-domestic versi=
on of=20
a show. &amp; each channel (each mtv, VH-1, nick, paramount, whatever) has =
it's=20
own idiosyncratic issues.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D508244616-09042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D508244616-09042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff>(&amp; so e.g. I found myself in an audio studio in tel avi=
v where=20
they were auditioning for the part of the israeli voice-artists for "sponge=
bob".=20
I was there to do due-diligence on the various 3rd parties dealing with=20
nick-israel &amp; discovered that the lead singer of "rockfour", an israeli=
 prog=20
band I like, was up for the title role....)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D508244616-09042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D508244616-09042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff>my job, having started off as a shift-based support techie,=
 is now=20
what one might call "business engineering"; I am trying to rationalise thes=
e=20
processes &amp; eliminate duplicate effort &amp; resource-wastage. so....=20
tapeless workflows, shared media libraries, video-over-IP, best-practice vi=
deo=20
&amp; audio compression techniques, WAN acceleration, this sort of=20
thing.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D508244616-09042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D508244616-09042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff>phew!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D508244616-09042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D508244616-09042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff>what did you do in NY?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D508244616-09042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D508244616-09042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff>duncan.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><pre>


CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE

This e-mail (and any attached files) is confidential and protected by=20
copyright (and other intellectual property rights). If you are not the=20
intended recipient please e-mail the sender and then delete the email and=20
any attached files immediately. Any further use or dissemination is=20
prohibited.

While MTV Networks Europe has taken steps to ensure that this email and=20
any attachments are virus free, it is your responsibility to ensure that=20
this message and any attachments are virus free and do not affect your=20
systems / data.

Communicating by email is not 100% secure and carries risks such as delay,=20
data corruption, non-delivery, wrongful interception and unauthorised=20
amendment. If you communicate with us by e-mail, you acknowledge and=20
assume these risks, and you agree to take appropriate measures to minimise=20
these risks when e-mailing us.=20

MTV Networks International, MTV Networks UK &amp; Ireland, Greenhouse,=20
Nickelodeon Viacom Consumer Products, VBSi, Viacom Brand Solutions=20
International and Comedy Central are all trading names of MTV Networks=20
Europe.  MTV Networks Europe is a partnership between MTV Networks Europe=20
Inc. and Viacom Networks Europe Inc.  Address for service in Great Britain=20
is UK House, 180 Oxford Street, London W1D 1DS, UK.
</pre></BODY></HTML>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C89A63.F2A7AC9A--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  9 19:53:33 2008
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Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 20:53:42 +0100
From: andy butler <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk>
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To:  Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: FCB1010 Sysex Dump for Mobius
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hi Wendy,
I'd be wary of taking a sysex from another FCB1010.
If it's a different version of the firmware it won't work.

Seems you already figured to program the fcb,
so perhaps there's a Mobius setting you need to tweak.


andy butler

wendy phua wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am having a tough time getting my FCB1010 to trigger off recording on 
> Mobius, as currently the Mobius does not recognise ANY messages from the 
> FCB1010. It does not help that I am a newbie in MIDI control settings 
> and while the FCB1010 has so much potential I cannot seem to figure it out.
> 
> Would anyone be able to email me a sysex dump for the FCB1010 to work on 
> Mobius as I'm going nuts trying to get this working? There is nothing 
> wrong with my FCB1010 as it works with ableton so I think it's some 
> aspect of its setting for the Mobius that I am not setting.
> 
> -- 
> Many Thanks,
> 
> Wendy Phua
> http://www.wendyphua.com
> http://www.myspace.com/wendyphua
> 
> "Between Here And Then" EP available via my website
> Interview by Lush 99.5FM is out - http://www.podcast.sg/lush_art.asp

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  9 20:45:45 2008
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Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 23:15:38 +0200
From: Luca Formentini <luca@unguitar.com>
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a meeting of the in and the out:

http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=Rxrw1EOqGDY

luca
www.unguitar.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  9 21:07:04 2008
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 23:07:03 +0200
From: "Per Boysen" <perboysen@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: nice listening
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On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 11:15 PM, Luca Formentini <luca@unguitar.com> wrote:
> a meeting of the in and the out:
>
>  http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=Rxrw1EOqGDY


Thanks for the hint, I liked it. Nice seeing those guys playing
together with blue stage lights! And little did I know that Baily
could play such sweet dissonances. But I kind of missed Miles Davis in
there. Nostalgic listening too, since these guys keep repeating Mile's
formula from Bitches Brew - except for the missing lead line
burst-outs.

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com

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Per Boysen wrote:

>....But I kind of missed Miles Davis in there. 
>  
>
that would have been too much for my delicate heart ;-)

glad you liked it, I was also suprised to see Derek on such a mainstream 
stage !

luca

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thanks, terrific stuff. I love Derek Bailey with a "modern" rhythm 
section, like the "Mirakle" album with Jamaaladeen Tacuma and Calvin 
Weston. Really plays up his unique rhythmic sense.

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com

> a meeting of the in and the out:
>
> http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=Rxrw1EOqGDY
>
> luca
> www.unguitar.com
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  9 22:55:33 2008
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Duncan - wow you've indeed raised the baby over there.  My day gig for all
my years in NY has been a computer tech and I was a contractor (help
desk/field support) and eventual employee at MTV and VIacom properties
94-95, 96, 2000 & 2001-2.  Saw it when it was more fun before the CBS merger
and saw Europe/Asia grow.  Miss it a lot but for IT stuff stability was the
weak link.  Every couple of years Tom Freston and other upper mgt would get
restless and decide to oursource to IBM and away my dept would go until they
got fed up with IBM's screwy support and brought us back, hence the
revolving door.  I probably know some folks you know and should probably
take this off list for further.  Sounds like it's pretty cool ops in Europe
with them.

Regards and thx for  your overview

Jim Goodin
www.jimgoodinmusic.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com
www.myspace.com/eastofwhere
On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 1:05 PM, Goddard, Duncan <goddard.duncan@mtvne.com>
wrote:

>   >> I worked contract for MTV in NY all through the 90's and recall when
> Europe was just getting launched.  Kind of a blast to see your corp
> disclaimer... <<
>
> jim- I started here back in 1992, when it was still a toddler- one mtv
> channel for the whole of europe & africa. launched august 1987.
>
> we started to divide the service by territory for the usual commercial
> reasons (targeted advertising/airtime sales, then regionalised programming)
> & launched a whole raft of other viacom channels too, like nickelodeon,
> paramount, VH-1, MTV-2, showtime & so on, in many different flavours for
> different countries.
>
> most of them play out from london, but there are also now playout centres
> in milan, berlin & amsterdam, & "franchise" operations all over the eastern
> bloc countries.
> some of the channels are run in partnership with the local platform
> operators (e.g. nick & paramount are in partnership with sky in the UK).
>
> some of the european channels were originally independents that we bought
> up & kept their branding as it was (e.g. TMF, viva).
>
> most of the european services take quite a bit of US-content & re-version
> it somehow. there are different broadcast regulations prevalent in different
> territories, covering such stuff as ad-break structure (number, duration,
> distance apart), product-placement, certain kinds of content or topics.
>
> in any case, the music bed often has to be changed because of rights
> issues. then the show might have to be re-voiced &/or subtitled after all
> this post-production. this all assumes that we can get hold of a suitable
> "kit of parts" from NY, as opposed to the finished, mixed US-domestic
> version of a show. & each channel (each mtv, VH-1, nick, paramount,
> whatever) has it's own idiosyncratic issues.
>
> (& so e.g. I found myself in an audio studio in tel aviv where they were
> auditioning for the part of the israeli voice-artists for "spongebob". I was
> there to do due-diligence on the various 3rd parties dealing with
> nick-israel & discovered that the lead singer of "rockfour", an israeli prog
> band I like, was up for the title role....)
>
> my job, having started off as a shift-based support techie, is now what
> one might call "business engineering"; I am trying to rationalise these
> processes & eliminate duplicate effort & resource-wastage. so.... tapeless
> workflows, shared media libraries, video-over-IP, best-practice video &
> audio compression techniques, WAN acceleration, this sort of thing.
>
> phew!
>
> what did you do in NY?
>
> duncan.
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
>
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>
>


-- 
The Acoustic World Guitar of Jim Goodin - http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com
MySpace (solo) - http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic
Chinapainting -
http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com
Chinapainting on My Space -
http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com
The Jim Goodin label and home for 7 other creative souls -
http://www.woodandwiremusic.com
Jim Goodin uses GHS Strings - http://www.ghsstrings.com and Seagull Guitars
- http://www.seagullguitars.com, Jim Goodin is published by Mel Bay
Publications, Inc. - http://www.melbay.com

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<div>Duncan - wow you&#39;ve indeed raised the baby over there.&nbsp; My day gig for all my years in NY has been a computer tech and I was a contractor (help desk/field support)&nbsp;and eventual employee at MTV and VIacom properties 94-95, 96, 2000 &amp; 2001-2.&nbsp; Saw it when it was more fun before the CBS merger and saw Europe/Asia grow.&nbsp; Miss it a lot but for IT stuff stability was the weak link.&nbsp; Every couple of years Tom Freston and other upper mgt would get restless and decide to oursource to IBM and away my dept would go until they got fed up with IBM&#39;s screwy support and brought us back, hence the revolving door.&nbsp; I probably know some folks you know and should probably take this off list for further.&nbsp; Sounds like it&#39;s pretty cool ops in Europe with them.</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Regards and thx for&nbsp; your overview</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Jim Goodin</div>
<div><a href="http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com/">www.jimgoodinmusic.com</a></div>
<div><a href="http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com/">www.chinapaintingmusic.com</a></div>
<div><a href="http://www.myspace.com/eastofwhere">www.myspace.com/eastofwhere</a><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 1:05 PM, Goddard, Duncan &lt;<a href="mailto:goddard.duncan@mtvne.com">goddard.duncan@mtvne.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<div>
<div><span><font face="AmericanTypewriter Medium" color="#0000ff">&nbsp;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;</font></span>I worked contract for MTV in NY all through the 90&#39;s and recall when Europe was just getting launched.&nbsp; Kind of a blast to see your corp disclaimer...<span><font face="AmericanTypewriter Medium" color="#0000ff">&nbsp;&lt;&lt;</font></span></div>

<div><span></span>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span><font face="AmericanTypewriter Medium" color="#0000ff">jim- I started here back in 1992, when it was still a toddler- one mtv channel for the whole of europe &amp; africa. launched august 1987.&nbsp;</font></span></div>

<div><span><font face="AmericanTypewriter Medium" color="#0000ff"></font></span>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span><font face="AmericanTypewriter Medium" color="#0000ff">we started to divide the service by territory for the usual commercial reasons (targeted advertising/airtime sales, then regionalised programming) &amp; launched a whole raft of other viacom&nbsp;channels too, like nickelodeon, paramount, VH-1, MTV-2, showtime &amp; so on, in many different flavours for different countries. </font></span></div>

<div><span><font face="AmericanTypewriter Medium" color="#0000ff"></font></span>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span><font face="AmericanTypewriter Medium" color="#0000ff">most of them play out from london, but there are also now playout centres in milan, berlin &amp; amsterdam, &amp; &quot;franchise&quot; operations all over the&nbsp;eastern bloc countries.</font>&nbsp;<font face="AmericanTypewriter Medium" color="#0000ff"> </font></span></div>

<div><span><font face="AmericanTypewriter Medium" color="#0000ff">some of the channels are run in partnership with the local platform operators (e.g. nick &amp; paramount are in partnership with sky in the UK). </font></span></div>

<div><span><font face="AmericanTypewriter Medium" color="#0000ff"></font></span>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span><font face="AmericanTypewriter Medium" color="#0000ff">some of the european channels were originally independents that we bought up &amp; kept their branding as it was (e.g. TMF, viva).</font></span></div>
<div><span><font face="AmericanTypewriter Medium" color="#0000ff"></font></span>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span><font face="AmericanTypewriter Medium" color="#0000ff">most of the european services take quite a bit of US-content &amp; re-version it somehow. there are different broadcast regulations prevalent in different territories, covering such stuff as ad-break structure (number, duration, distance apart), product-placement, certain kinds of content or topics. </font></span></div>

<div><span><font face="AmericanTypewriter Medium" color="#0000ff"></font></span>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span><font face="AmericanTypewriter Medium" color="#0000ff">in any case, the music bed often has to be changed because of rights issues. then the show might have to be re-voiced &amp;/or subtitled after all this post-production. this all assumes that we can get hold of a suitable &quot;kit of parts&quot; from NY, as opposed to the finished, mixed US-domestic version of a show. &amp; each channel (each mtv, VH-1, nick, paramount, whatever) has it&#39;s own idiosyncratic issues.</font></span></div>

<div><span><font face="AmericanTypewriter Medium" color="#0000ff"></font></span>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span><font face="AmericanTypewriter Medium" color="#0000ff">(&amp; so e.g. I found myself in an audio studio in tel aviv where they were auditioning for the part of the israeli voice-artists for &quot;spongebob&quot;. I was there to do due-diligence on the various 3rd parties dealing with nick-israel &amp; discovered that the lead singer of &quot;rockfour&quot;, an israeli prog band I like, was up for the title role....)</font></span></div>

<div><span><font face="AmericanTypewriter Medium" color="#0000ff"></font></span>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span><font face="AmericanTypewriter Medium" color="#0000ff">my job, having started off as a shift-based support techie, is now what one might call &quot;business engineering&quot;; I am trying to rationalise these processes &amp; eliminate duplicate effort &amp; resource-wastage. so.... tapeless workflows, shared media libraries, video-over-IP, best-practice video &amp; audio compression techniques, WAN acceleration, this sort of thing.</font></span></div>

<div><span><font face="AmericanTypewriter Medium" color="#0000ff"></font></span>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span><font face="AmericanTypewriter Medium" color="#0000ff">phew!</font></span></div>
<div><span><font face="AmericanTypewriter Medium" color="#0000ff"></font></span>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span><font face="AmericanTypewriter Medium" color="#0000ff">what did you do in NY?</font></span></div>
<div><span><font face="AmericanTypewriter Medium" color="#0000ff"></font></span>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span><font face="AmericanTypewriter Medium" color="#0000ff">duncan.</font></span></div><pre>CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE

This e-mail (and any attached files) is confidential and protected by 
copyright (and other intellectual property rights). If you are not the 
intended recipient please e-mail the sender and then delete the email and 
any attached files immediately. Any further use or dissemination is 
prohibited.

While MTV Networks Europe has taken steps to ensure that this email and 
any attachments are virus free, it is your responsibility to ensure that 
this message and any attachments are virus free and do not affect your 
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data corruption, non-delivery, wrongful interception and unauthorised 
amendment. If you communicate with us by e-mail, you acknowledge and 
assume these risks, and you agree to take appropriate measures to minimise 
these risks when e-mailing us. 

MTV Networks International, MTV Networks UK &amp; Ireland, Greenhouse, 
Nickelodeon Viacom Consumer Products, VBSi, Viacom Brand Solutions 
International and Comedy Central are all trading names of MTV Networks 
Europe.  MTV Networks Europe is a partnership between MTV Networks Europe 
Inc. and Viacom Networks Europe Inc.  Address for service in Great Britain 
is UK House, 180 Oxford Street, London W1D 1DS, UK.
</pre></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>The Acoustic World Guitar of Jim Goodin - <a href="http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com">http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com</a><br>MySpace (solo) - <a href="http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic">http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic</a><br>
Chinapainting -<br><a href="http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com">http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com</a><br>Chinapainting on My Space -<br><a href="http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com">http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com</a><br>
The Jim Goodin label and home for 7 other creative souls - <a href="http://www.woodandwiremusic.com">http://www.woodandwiremusic.com</a> <br>Jim Goodin uses GHS Strings - <a href="http://www.ghsstrings.com">http://www.ghsstrings.com</a> and Seagull Guitars - <a href="http://www.seagullguitars.com">http://www.seagullguitars.com</a>, Jim Goodin is published by Mel Bay Publications, Inc. - <a href="http://www.melbay.com">http://www.melbay.com</a> 

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Most of my music on guitar is not looped or at best short delay but it
occurred to me I've not shared some actual looping that I've done with
Mobius and violin of which both are still learning the process.  I received
a funky blue electric violin as a father's gift last summer and began
"hacking" about as I like to experiment with other instruments.  Using efx
and loops on it has allowed me to get more out of my naive technique.  As I
feel I'm a bit of viewing from wings on LD in that most of my muse at least
with the guitar, is not looping but still certainly interested in the
info/ideas shared here, I thought I'd post an invite to check out some of
the violin/looping experiments of the last few months.

All the trax were done with Mobius except *Hoedown*, done with another duo
project I'm part of, East of Where <http://www.myspace.com/eastofwhere> with
co-chair drummer/percussionist *Will Romano*, who I should add is an
excellent writer in addition to his equally excellent drumming/percussion
work, authoring two music related books, on bluesmen Hubert
Sumlin<http://www.amazon.com/Incurable-Blues-Troubles-Triumph-Legend/dp/0879308338/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1207782808&sr=1-2>and
Jimmy
Reed<http://www.amazon.com/Big-Boss-Man-Music-Bluesman/dp/0879308788/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1207782669&sr=8-15>
.

My fiddle experiments are at http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinviolinelectro.
*Aimlessly Adrift* is newest and probably best Mobius work thus far.
*Improvisation
on the Red Haired Boy* was captured in Mobius however it's one track and not
really a loop.

Additionally the new coming *Chinapainting* CD Daryl and I recorded (in
person) last summer in Woodstock, has one plucked fiddle piece that is sort
of looped though the bigger hand on that goes to Daryl's excellent tapes and
Dictaphone.  We've posted an excerpt from this track as well as a few others
from the record which we're quite excited about on our Chinapainting page at
http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.

Anyhow feels good to share in the community here...

Best and thanks if you should stream...

Jim

-- 
The Acoustic World Guitar of Jim Goodin - http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com
MySpace (solo) - http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic
Chinapainting -
http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com
Chinapainting on My Space -
http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com
East of Where -
http://www.myspace.com/eastofwhere
The Jim Goodin label and home for 7 other creative souls -
http://www.woodandwiremusic.com
Jim Goodin uses GHS Strings - http://www.ghsstrings.com and Seagull Guitars
- http://www.seagullguitars.com, Jim Goodin is published by Mel Bay
Publications, Inc. - http://www.melbay.com

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<div>Most of my music on guitar is not looped or at best short delay but it occurred to me I&#39;ve not shared some actual looping that I&#39;ve done with Mobius and violin of which&nbsp;both are still&nbsp;learning the process.&nbsp; I received a funky blue electric violin as a father&#39;s gift last summer and began &quot;hacking&quot; about as I like to experiment with other instruments.&nbsp; Using efx and loops on it has allowed me to get more out of my naive technique.&nbsp; As I feel I&#39;m a bit of viewing from wings on LD in that most of my muse at least with the guitar, is not looping but still certainly interested in the info/ideas shared here, I thought I&#39;d post&nbsp;an invite to check out some of the violin/looping experiments of the last few months.&nbsp; </div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>All the trax were done with Mobius except <em>Hoedown</em>, done with&nbsp;another duo project I&#39;m part of,&nbsp;<a href="http://www.myspace.com/eastofwhere">East of Where</a> with co-chair drummer/percussionist <em>Will Romano</em>, who I&nbsp;should add is an excellent writer in addition to his&nbsp;equally excellent&nbsp;drumming/percussion work,&nbsp;authoring two&nbsp;music related books,&nbsp;on bluesmen <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Incurable-Blues-Troubles-Triumph-Legend/dp/0879308338/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1207782808&amp;sr=1-2">Hubert Sumlin</a> and&nbsp;<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Big-Boss-Man-Music-Bluesman/dp/0879308788/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1207782669&amp;sr=8-15">Jimmy Reed</a>.</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>My fiddle experiments are at <a href="http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinviolinelectro">http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinviolinelectro</a>.&nbsp; <em>Aimlessly Adrift</em> is newest and probably best Mobius work thus far.&nbsp; <em>Improvisation on the Red Haired Boy</em> was captured in Mobius however it&#39;s one track and not really a loop.</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Additionally the new coming <em>Chinapainting</em>&nbsp;CD Daryl and I recorded (in person) last summer in Woodstock, has one plucked fiddle piece that is sort of looped though the bigger hand on that goes to Daryl&#39;s excellent tapes and Dictaphone.&nbsp; We&#39;ve posted an excerpt from this track as well as a few others from the record which we&#39;re quite excited about&nbsp;on our Chinapainting page at <a href="http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic">http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic</a>.</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Anyhow feels good to share in the community here...</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Best and thanks if you should stream...</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Jim<br clear="all"><br>-- <br>The Acoustic World Guitar of Jim Goodin - <a href="http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com">http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com</a><br>MySpace (solo) - <a href="http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic">http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic</a><br>
Chinapainting -<br><a href="http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com">http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com</a><br>Chinapainting on My Space -<br><a href="http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com">http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com</a><br>
East of Where -</div>
<div><a href="http://www.myspace.com/eastofwhere">http://www.myspace.com/eastofwhere</a></div>
<div>The Jim Goodin label and home for 7 other creative souls - <a href="http://www.woodandwiremusic.com">http://www.woodandwiremusic.com</a> <br>Jim Goodin uses GHS Strings - <a href="http://www.ghsstrings.com">http://www.ghsstrings.com</a> and Seagull Guitars - <a href="http://www.seagullguitars.com">http://www.seagullguitars.com</a>, Jim Goodin is published by Mel Bay Publications, Inc. - <a href="http://www.melbay.com">http://www.melbay.com</a> </div>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr  9 23:50:32 2008
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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 16:50:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: empress super delay videos are up now
To: Loopers Delight <loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com>
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very nice and versatile for such a small and compact
unit,its also true bypass(seems to sound really nice)
and seems to have smarter features than the dl4
check out the well explained videos
http://www.empresseffects.com/superdelay.php#videos
cheers
Luis



www.myspace.com/luisangulocom

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 10 01:56:00 2008
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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 09:55:58 +0800
From: "wendy phua" <wendybassist@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: FCB1010 Sysex Dump for Mobius
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Hi Andy,

Thanks for the heads up, but I'm just getting quite desperate here...figured
dumping a ready sysex mite provide me a starting point at least. But I'll
keep your advise in mind.

Many Thanks,

Wendy Phua
http://www.wendyphua.com
http://www.myspace.com/wendyphua

"Between Here And Then" EP available via my website
Interview by Lush 99.5FM is out - http://www.podcast.sg/lush_art.asp


On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 3:53 AM, andy butler <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

> hi Wendy,
> I'd be wary of taking a sysex from another FCB1010.
> If it's a different version of the firmware it won't work.
>
> Seems you already figured to program the fcb,
> so perhaps there's a Mobius setting you need to tweak.
>
>
> andy butler
>
>
> wendy phua wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am having a tough time getting my FCB1010 to trigger off recording on
> > Mobius, as currently the Mobius does not recognise ANY messages from the
> > FCB1010. It does not help that I am a newbie in MIDI control settings and
> > while the FCB1010 has so much potential I cannot seem to figure it out.
> >
> > Would anyone be able to email me a sysex dump for the FCB1010 to work on
> > Mobius as I'm going nuts trying to get this working? There is nothing wrong
> > with my FCB1010 as it works with ableton so I think it's some aspect of its
> > setting for the Mobius that I am not setting.
> >
> > --
> > Many Thanks,
> >
> > Wendy Phua
> > http://www.wendyphua.com
> > http://www.myspace.com/wendyphua
> >
> > "Between Here And Then" EP available via my website
> > Interview by Lush 99.5FM is out - http://www.podcast.sg/lush_art.asp
> >
>
>

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Hi Andy,<br><br>Thanks for the heads up, but I&#39;m just getting quite desperate here...figured dumping a ready sysex mite provide me a starting point at least. But I&#39;ll keep your advise in mind.<br><br>Many Thanks,<br>
<br>Wendy Phua<br><a href="http://www.wendyphua.com">http://www.wendyphua.com</a><br><a href="http://www.myspace.com/wendyphua">http://www.myspace.com/wendyphua</a><br><br>&quot;Between Here And Then&quot; EP available via my website<br>
Interview by Lush 99.5FM is out - <a href="http://www.podcast.sg/lush_art.asp">http://www.podcast.sg/lush_art.asp</a><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 3:53 AM, andy butler &lt;<a href="mailto:akbutler@tiscali.co.uk">akbutler@tiscali.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">hi Wendy,<br>
I&#39;d be wary of taking a sysex from another FCB1010.<br>
If it&#39;s a different version of the firmware it won&#39;t work.<br>
<br>
Seems you already figured to program the fcb,<br>
so perhaps there&#39;s a Mobius setting you need to tweak.<br><font color="#888888">
<br>
<br>
andy butler</font><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
<br>
wendy phua wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Hi,<br>
<br>
I am having a tough time getting my FCB1010 to trigger off recording on Mobius, as currently the Mobius does not recognise ANY messages from the FCB1010. It does not help that I am a newbie in MIDI control settings and while the FCB1010 has so much potential I cannot seem to figure it out.<br>

<br>
Would anyone be able to email me a sysex dump for the FCB1010 to work on Mobius as I&#39;m going nuts trying to get this working? There is nothing wrong with my FCB1010 as it works with ableton so I think it&#39;s some aspect of its setting for the Mobius that I am not setting.<br>

<br>
-- <br>
Many Thanks,<br>
<br>
Wendy Phua<br>
<a href="http://www.wendyphua.com" target="_blank">http://www.wendyphua.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.myspace.com/wendyphua" target="_blank">http://www.myspace.com/wendyphua</a><br>
<br>
&quot;Between Here And Then&quot; EP available via my website<br>
Interview by Lush 99.5FM is out - <a href="http://www.podcast.sg/lush_art.asp" target="_blank">http://www.podcast.sg/lush_art.asp</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br><br>

------=_Part_2997_19543707.1207792558109--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 10 03:31:00 2008
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From: Teddy Kumpel <teddybut@mac.com>
Subject: Re: empress super delay videos are up now
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 23:30:56 -0400
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pretty cool... except he doesn't explain the expression pedal... does  
it do what the line 6 does with the "heel set, toe set then morph"  
thing that is soooo cool?
why don't all pedals do that anyway... that is genius of Line 6.

teddy

On Apr 9, 2008, at 7:50 PM, L.A. Angulo wrote:
> very nice and versatile for such a small and compact
> unit,its also true bypass(seems to sound really nice)
> and seems to have smarter features than the dl4
> check out the well explained videos
> http://www.empresseffects.com/superdelay.php#videos
> cheers
> Luis




From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 10 03:49:52 2008
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Subject: RE: empress super delay videos are up now
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 20:50:01 -0700
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Seems like a very nice product,  how much does it cost ?

Qua

-----Original Message-----
From: Teddy Kumpel [mailto:teddybut@mac.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:31 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: empress super delay videos are up now

pretty cool... except he doesn't explain the expression pedal... does  
it do what the line 6 does with the "heel set, toe set then morph"  
thing that is soooo cool?
why don't all pedals do that anyway... that is genius of Line 6.

teddy

On Apr 9, 2008, at 7:50 PM, L.A. Angulo wrote:
> very nice and versatile for such a small and compact
> unit,its also true bypass(seems to sound really nice)
> and seems to have smarter features than the dl4
> check out the well explained videos
> http://www.empresseffects.com/superdelay.php#videos
> cheers
> Luis




From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 10 04:36:54 2008
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Hi folks,

My work (a video installation entitled "A Winter's Meditation" will 
be exhibited at a really beautiful art show in Monson April 12 -27, 
2008. I am among 80 artists selected from more than 110 who entered 
on the theme "The Dance of Texture, Light & Color." The exhibit is at 
the House of Art, 200 Main Street, Monson. For directions and more 
info: www.monsonartscouncil.com.

I hope you can join me at the reception on April 12 from 1 - 4 p.m. 
Or you might like to attend the show and enjoy a jazz concert on the 
lawn at the House of Art on Saturday, April 26.

The show is open Fridays, April 18 & 25 from 4 -8, Saturdays, April 
19 & 26, 10a.m - 4p.m and  Sundays, April 13, 20, 27, from noon - 4 
p.m.

Monson is located in a very pleasant part of Central Mass -- so 
combine a spring day in the country with a chance to see some really 
nice art. I've exhibited in this show several times, and it just 
keeps  getting better.

On Friday April 18, I'll be performing at Outpost 186 in Cambridge as part of

"Poetic Vision" : an audio-visual collective trance
featuring:
Emile Tobenfeld - visual poetry
John Mulrooney - audio poetry
The Rivera/Brunel Method
with
Anthony Baldino - Laptopology

and perhaps others. Last month's show was really nice. The show will 
start around 8:15 and the suggested donation is $7.

OUTPOST 186 : 186 1/2 hampshire st. cambridge ma 02139
updated concert & events : 
<http://www.zeitgeist-outpost.org/>www.zeitgeist-outpost.org/


On Saturday, April 19, I'll be performing with members of Birdsongs 
of the Mesozoic (Rick Scott, keyboards, Michael Bierylo guitar and 
electronics, perhaps others)  at 119 Gallery in Lowell MA. Show time 
is 8 PM.

Culinary Note: There is an outstanding Cambodian restaurant in a 
building adjourning the gallery.


$5- 10 donation.

119 Gallery, 119 Chelmsford St, Lowell
978 452 8138
  http://www.119gallery.org/

-- 
" Practice makes perfect, imperfect is better."  -- Paul Bley

		Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D.
Video Producer			Image Processing Specialist
Video for your HEAD!			Boris FX
http://www.foryourhead.com		http://www.borisfx.com

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Subject: Fwd: ACF/AMC Joint Survey of the Field
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 19:46:25 -1000



Begin forwarded message:From: American Composers Forum <mail@composersforum=
.org>Date: April 9, 2008 8:44:42 AM HSTTo: All Composers <steven@tuninghawa=
ii.com>Subject: ACF/AMC Joint Survey of the Field
          New Music Needs Your Voice!
=20
 The American Music Center (AMC) and American Composers Forum (ACF) have te=
amed up with Columbia University's Research Center for Arts and Culture to =
conduct the first major study of living composers in the United States, Tak=
ing Note.  The study aims to gather important data to guide our efforts in =
better serving and advocating for composers of all styles and backgrounds. =
 =20
=20
 If you are a composer, we want to hear from you! You can be a part of this=
 important research by filling out the online survey at the link below.  Th=
e survey is estimated to take 20 minutes of your time. Your participation w=
ill broaden the study=92s reach and give us a better understanding of curre=
nt trends in the field.  Thank you for helping us to help composers. http:/=
/devcw.tc.columbia.edu/surveys/rcac/index.cfm=20
                           =20

_________________________________________________________________
Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM=
_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_042008=

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<br><br><span class=3D"body"></span><span class=3D"EC_EC_EC_EC_EC_bodybold"=
></span><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><blockq=
uote><br>Subject: Fwd: ACF/AMC Joint Survey of the Field<br>Date: Wed, 9 Ap=
r 2008 19:46:25 -1000<br><br><br><div><br>Begin forwarded message:<br class=
=3D"EC_Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div style=3D"margin-right: 0px; mar=
gin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><font style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 1=
2px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" col=
or=3D"#000000" face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3"><b>From: </b></font><font styl=
e=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font=
-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: no=
ne;" face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3">American Composers Forum &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:mail@composersforum.org">mail@composersforum.org</a>&gt;</font></div=
><div style=3D"margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><f=
ont style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: norm=
al; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-ad=
just: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Helvetica" size=
=3D"3"><b>Date: </b></font><font style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-styl=
e: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line=
-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none;" face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3">Apr=
il 9, 2008 8:44:42 AM HST</font></div><div style=3D"margin-right: 0px; marg=
in-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><font style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; f=
ont-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12=
px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" colo=
r=3D"#000000" face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3"><b>To: </b></font><font style=
=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-=
weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: non=
e;" face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3">All Composers &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:steve=
n@tuninghawaii.com">steven@tuninghawaii.com</a>&gt;</font></div><div style=
=3D"margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><font style=
=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-=
weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: non=
e; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3"><b=
>Subject: </b></font><font style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-style: nor=
mal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-heigh=
t: normal; font-size-adjust: none;" face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3"><b>ACF/AM=
C Joint Survey of the Field</b></font></div><div style=3D"margin-right: 0px=
; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br></div> </div=
><div style=3D"margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in;"> <=
span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif';"> <d=
iv style=3D"text-align: center;"> <img style=3D"width: 747px; height: 86px;=
" src=3D"http://content.delivra.com/etapcontent//AmericanComposersForum/Ban=
ner%20JPEG.JPG" alt=3D"Composers should be heard" height=3D"86" width=3D"74=
7"> </div> </span> </div> <span style=3D"font-family: 'Impact','sans-serif'=
;">&nbsp;</span><div style=3D"margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin=
-left: 0in;"> <span style=3D"font-family: 'Impact','sans-serif';">New Music=
 Needs Your Voice!</span><br> <br> <span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-fam=
ily: 'Arial','sans-serif';">The American Music Center (AMC) and American Co=
mposers Forum (ACF) have teamed up with Columbia University's Research Cent=
er for Arts and Culture to conduct the first major study of living composer=
s in the United States, <em>Taking Note</em>.<span>&nbsp; </span>The study =
aims to gather important data to guide our efforts in better serving and ad=
vocating for composers of <strong>all</strong> styles and backgrounds.<span=
>&nbsp; </span><span>&nbsp;</span><br> <br> If you are a composer, we want =
to hear from you! You can be a part of this important research by filling o=
ut the online survey at the link below. &nbsp;The survey is estimated to ta=
ke 20 minutes of your time. Your participation will broaden the study=92s r=
each and give us a better understanding of current trends in the field.<spa=
n>&nbsp; </span>Thank you for helping us to help composers. <a href=3D"http=
://devcw.tc.columbia.edu/surveys/rcac/index.cfm" target=3D"_blank"><font fa=
ce=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">http://devcw.tc.columbia.edu/surveys/rcac=
/index.cfm</font></a><span><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">&nbsp;=
</font></span></span><br> <span><font face=3D"Times New Roman">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <div style=3D"text-align: cen=
ter;"> <img style=3D"width: 217px; height: 126px;" src=3D"http://content.de=
livra.com/etapcontent//AmericanComposersForum/amcacflogoimage.JPG" alt=3D"A=
MC/ACF logos" height=3D"126" width=3D"217"> </div> </font></span> </div></d=
iv><br></blockquote><br /><hr />Use video conversation to talk face-to-face=
 with Windows Live Messenger. <a href=3D'http://www.windowslive.com/messeng=
er/connect_your_way.html?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_042008=
' target=3D'_new'>Get started!</a></body>
</html>=

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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 06:37:37 -0400
From: Bill Fox <billyfox@soundscapes.us>
Subject: Listen To Afterglow and Galactic Travels
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AFTERGLOW ON WMUH:                      http://soundscapes.us/afterglow
=======================================================================
Afterglow airs from 8:00 am to 9:30 am every Thursday morning.  Tune in
for a delightful mix of eclectic musical genres including a healthy
dose of Progressive Rock.  Tune in at 91.7 FM or on the internet at:
http://muhlenberg.edu/wmuh
Check out Afterglow on MySpace at:
http://myspace.com/afterglowonwmuh


GALACTIC TRAVELS ON WDIY:                   http://galactictravels.info
=======================================================================
Tonight at 11 pm on Galactic Travels, I'll continue the month-long
Special Focus on Create.  The Featured CD at Midnight will be
"Reflections from the Inner Light" by Create  on Groove Unlimited
Records.  For details, see the Special Focus page at:
http://wdiy.org/programs/gt/playlists/2008/focus.html#apr
Become a friend of Galactic Travels on MySpace at:
http://myspace.com/galactictravels

Galactic Travels is an electronic, ambient, and space music show that
airs each Thursday at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and
Bethlehem, 93.9 FM in Easton and Phillipsburg, 93.7 FM in Fogelsville
and Trexlertown, on the internet, and in High Definition Radio at 88.1
FM.

======================================================================
All times are EDT which is GMT-4 for the duration of Daylight Saving
Time.  EDT is still five hours behind London.

Listen on-line to WDIY at http://wdiy.org and click LISTEN or go
directly to: http://rm1.refugemedia.com/ramgen/encoder/wdiy.rm

Listen on-line to WMUH at http://www.muhlenberg.edu/wmuh and click the
REAL AUDIO link or go directly to:
rtsp://helix.muhlenberg.edu:554/broadcast/live.rm

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 10 14:00:42 2008
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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 07:00:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: ditch wrestler <ditchwrestler@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: nice listening
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Yeah, this gig is a good one - I've recording of it at home and it's a keeper!
   
   
  Ted H.

Daryl Shawn <highhorse@mhorse.com> wrote:
  thanks, terrific stuff. I love Derek Bailey with a "modern" rhythm 
section, like the "Mirakle" album with Jamaaladeen Tacuma and Calvin 
Weston. Really plays up his unique rhythmic sense.

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com

> a meeting of the in and the out:
>
> http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=Rxrw1EOqGDY
>
> luca
> www.unguitar.com
>
>




"Indeed, naturally I think that a film should have a beginning, middle, and an end — but not necessarily in that order."   Jean Luc Goddard
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<div>Yeah, this gig is a good one - I've recording of it at home and it's a keeper!</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>Ted H.<BR><BR><B><I>Daryl Shawn &lt;highhorse@mhorse.com&gt;</I></B> wrote:</div>  <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">thanks, terrific stuff. I love Derek Bailey with a "modern" rhythm <BR>section, like the "Mirakle" album with Jamaaladeen Tacuma and Calvin <BR>Weston. Really plays up his unique rhythmic sense.<BR><BR>Daryl Shawn<BR>www.swanwelder.com<BR>www.chinapaintingmusic.com<BR><BR>&gt; a meeting of the in and the out:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=Rxrw1EOqGDY<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; luca<BR>&gt; www.unguitar.com<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>"Indeed, naturally I think that a film should have a beginning, middle, and an end — but not necessarily in that order."   Jean Luc Goddard<p>&#32;__________________________________________________<br>Do You
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 10 15:45:15 2008
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Thanks, it was a good listening nevertheless. I know I will be the sin goat 
but I would show that DJ the door anyway.

Maybe I am missing s.t. but what is he adding to whole? If he was adding 
various weird noises with many instruments(stones, water, guitar, his nails 
whatever) I would listen to it happily. He is adding scratches that is out 
of context and reminds me definitely (that is the most of the problem) 
another context. I can't take it is as an artistic dirt anyway. Sorry for my 
shallow tastes :-).

Alper Gadis
www.cloudyamps.com (beware my commercial amp site. hence sold only in Turkey 
no danger of spam or malicious intend.:-))


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Daryl Shawn" <highhorse@mhorse.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 1:23 AM
Subject: Re: nice listening


> thanks, terrific stuff. I love Derek Bailey with a "modern" rhythm 
> section, like the "Mirakle" album with Jamaaladeen Tacuma and Calvin 
> Weston. Really plays up his unique rhythmic sense.
>
> Daryl Shawn
> www.swanwelder.com
> www.chinapaintingmusic.com
>
>> a meeting of the in and the out:
>>
>> http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=Rxrw1EOqGDY
>>
>> luca
>> www.unguitar.com
>>
>>
> 

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 10 16:23:26 2008
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I'm working on setting up solo touring for the summer, and am wondering 
if anyone can offer any suggestions for venues friendly to looping of 
the improvised variety in a few distinct cities:

- San Diego, CA
- Philadelphia, PA (looking here with Chinapainting)
- Pittsburgh, PA
- Toronto, Canada
- Montreal, Canada

I'm just looking for cafes/galleries/lofts/squats to do my stuff, I'm 
not concerned about the prestige of the venue or money (hahaha).

As a side note...my tour is split between vocal shows, instrumental 
shows, and the looping thing, and while booking is generally a drag, 
dealing with the experimental music venues has been a sheer pleasure so 
far. It's funny; nightclubs only care that you put "drinking customers 
in seats" (I'm so tired of seeing that phrase), coffeeshops only care 
that you don't curse, but the experimental venues have been without 
exception warm, generous, and genuinely interested in the music. The 
amount of support in the experimental music community - the Loopfest 
being a prime example of course - that I've seen in the last couple of 
years since I started playing this stuff out has been extremely 
encouraging to me. One place in Washington DC, for example, couldn't 
work with my dates for a show, but still asked if I wanted to come by 
for a drink and chat about music. I love that.

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 10 17:09:29 2008
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     Pre 9-11, I was returning from Italy to Seattle via DC/LaGuardia.  They had a 'puddle-jumper'
flight to connect DC and NY and I was carrying my Ovation acoustic in a softcase.  Walking through
the final gate out onto the tarmac, a guy stopped me and said "there's no room for that guitar on
board".  I looked at him with full confidence in my eyes and said, "Don't worry, I do this all the
time..."  This was a United prop plane, two seats on one side, one on the other of the offset
aisle.  When I boarded the plane, I realized that there was NO overhead storage bins whatsoever. 
Holy shit!  I quietly sat down in the single seat side, held the guitar between my legs with the
neck coming up under my armpit, threw a big blanket over all that, then got a newspaper folded out
large over everything.  I sat that way for the whole flight and nobody was the wiser.

     Don't think I'd ever try that one again...

     Stephen



  Mr.Tiktok wrote:
The smallest commuter jets don't have overhead bins, as I discovered a few trips back, and
everything goes in the hold.  I can't remember the model of that plane, some Airbus thing I think.
 Finding the specs for overhead bins for a given model of plane is tricky, particularly since the
airlines have zero interest in helping you.

For anything that does have an overhead bin, I've found that my 38" long case for the Larrivee
parlor fits (24" scale), or a Steinberger GM (25.5" scale, 30.25" overall length).

TH


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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 10 17:10:01 2008
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From: Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Looping venue help
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:09:48 -0400
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Never play for free.
On Apr 10, 2008, at 12:22 PM, Daryl Shawn wrote:

> I'm working on setting up solo touring for the summer, and am  
> wondering if anyone can offer any suggestions for venues friendly  
> to looping of the improvised variety in a few distinct cities:
>
> - San Diego, CA
> - Philadelphia, PA (looking here with Chinapainting)
> - Pittsburgh, PA
> - Toronto, Canada
> - Montreal, Canada
>
> I'm just looking for cafes/galleries/lofts/squats to do my stuff,  
> I'm not concerned about the prestige of the venue or money (hahaha).
>
> As a side note...my tour is split between vocal shows, instrumental  
> shows, and the looping thing, and while booking is generally a  
> drag, dealing with the experimental music venues has been a sheer  
> pleasure so far. It's funny; nightclubs only care that you put  
> "drinking customers in seats" (I'm so tired of seeing that phrase),  
> coffeeshops only care that you don't curse, but the experimental  
> venues have been without exception warm, generous, and genuinely  
> interested in the music. The amount of support in the experimental  
> music community - the Loopfest being a prime example of course -  
> that I've seen in the last couple of years since I started playing  
> this stuff out has been extremely encouraging to me. One place in  
> Washington DC, for example, couldn't work with my dates for a show,  
> but still asked if I wanted to come by for a drink and chat about  
> music. I love that.
>
> Daryl Shawn
> www.swanwelder.com
> www.chinapaintingmusic.com
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 10 17:43:47 2008
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ah..I detect a storm brewing...do I seed the clouds...?

I respect the well-established school of thought behind valuing work 
monetarily. It can be nice to get money after a show, but it simply 
doesn't matter to me. I've had a telecommuting day job for seven years 
that pays enough and is extremely flexible, allowing me to do things 
like this tour while still making some cash by logging on late at night. 
My perspective is, that's what I do for money. Music, I do for itself 
and whether I gain or lose money in the process is irrelevant. I don't 
need a second job and if I did, I'd find something where payment was 
guaranteed and had a direct relation to the time I put into it, which 
sure as hell isn't the case in any sort of art.

Certainly part of the argument against playing for free runs that it 
devalues the market for everyone else who may NEED to be paid. Maybe so, 
but the commercial music industry and lack of government arts funding 
deserve much more blame for their lack of support, and further, anyone 
who needs to be paid for their music has to know that they're going out 
on a highly arbitrary limb in relation to their survival. Even more so 
if they're playing unusual stuff.

I know for a fact that these coffeeshops that somehow survive charging 
$1.75 for their brown water don't have the cash to front for my unknown 
ass to sit in a corner and do what I love. I'd rather be playing than 
anything else, so I provide them some atmosphere and get a world of 
enjoyment in return, $20 or no $20.

As a side note, every experimental/arts venue I've played at or talked 
to so far has, actually, made a point of charging a cover and then 
giving the bulk (if not all) the door to the musicians.

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com
> Never play for free.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 10 19:19:01 2008
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Chris Sewell wrote:
> Never play for free.

"I don't want to sell my music.
I'd like to give it away because 
where I got it, you didn't have to pay for it."
...Don Van Vliet, 1970

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 10 19:24:45 2008
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Subject: Re: Looping venue help
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brilliant quote

On 10 Apr 2008, at 20:18, andy butler wrote:

>
>
> Chris Sewell wrote:
>> Never play for free.
>
> "I don't want to sell my music.
> I'd like to give it away because where I got it, you didn't have to  
> pay for it."
> ...Don Van Vliet, 1970
>

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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 22:13:00 +0200
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>  Chris Sewell wrote:
>
> > Never play for free.
> >
>
>  "I don't want to sell my music.
>  I'd like to give it away because where I got it, you didn't have to pay for
> it."
>  ...Don Van Vliet, 1970


I'm with Chris. Playing for free only hurts good music in the long
run. Why shouldn't a good musician's work be valued just as highly as
a good carpenter's work?

per

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 10 20:20:45 2008
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From: Teddy Kumpel <teddybut@mac.com>
Subject: Re: OT: compensation (WAS Re: Looping venue help)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:20:36 -0400
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On Apr 10, 2008, at 1:43 PM, Daryl Shawn wrote:
> I don't need a second job and if I did, I'd find something where  
> payment was guaranteed and had a direct relation to the time I put  
> into it, which sure as hell isn't the case in any sort of art.

you get what you ask for in my experience... if this is your attitude  
then you won't EVER get paid.

> Certainly part of the argument against playing for free runs that  
> it devalues the market for everyone else who may NEED to be paid.  
> Maybe so, but the commercial music industry and lack of government  
> arts funding deserve much more blame for their lack of support, and  
> further, anyone who needs to be paid for their music has to know  
> that they're going out on a highly arbitrary limb in relation to  
> their survival. Even more so if they're playing unusual stuff.

So you support the lack of support from the music industry and  
government arts programs? Why not just apply for the support... it  
does exist.
Sounds to me like you are towing the line of your oppressors.

Teddy K

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 10 20:23:59 2008
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Because live music on the local level doesn't have much monetary value and
supply greatly outstrips demand.


TH

On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:13 PM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> I'm with Chris. Playing for free only hurts good music in the long
> run. Why shouldn't a good musician's work be valued just as highly as
> a good carpenter's work?
>
> per
>
>

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Because live music on the local level doesn&#39;t have much monetary value and supply greatly outstrips demand.<br><br><br>TH<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:13 PM, Per Boysen &lt;<a href="mailto:perboysen@gmail.com">perboysen@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
<br>
</div></div>I&#39;m with Chris. Playing for free only hurts good music in the long<br>
run. Why shouldn&#39;t a good musician&#39;s work be valued just as highly as<br>
a good carpenter&#39;s work?<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
per<br>
<br>
</font></blockquote></div><br>

------=_Part_28584_25845164.1207859038283--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 10 20:24:20 2008
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From: Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Looping venue help
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:23:37 -0400
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I don't want this to get out of hand, but it's something I feel very  
strongly about. When you play for free, you take a gig away from a  
musician that is trying to make a living.

Nice quote from Ol' Don. But if you notice, he's saying he didn't  
actually give it away. It's a nice sentiment, but sentiment don't pay  
the rent. I'm sure Mr. Villet understood that.
But hey, do what you gotta do. If you are ever in New Haven, look me  
up, I'm sure I can find something for you.
Chris


On Apr 10, 2008, at 4:13 PM, Per Boysen wrote:

>>  Chris Sewell wrote:
>>
>>> Never play for free.
>>>
>>
>>  "I don't want to sell my music.
>>  I'd like to give it away because where I got it, you didn't have  
>> to pay for
>> it."
>>  ...Don Van Vliet, 1970
>
>
> I'm with Chris. Playing for free only hurts good music in the long
> run. Why shouldn't a good musician's work be valued just as highly as
> a good carpenter's work?
>
> per
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 10 20:29:27 2008
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From: Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Looping venue help
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Only because we allow it. I say bring back the union.


On Apr 10, 2008, at 4:23 PM, Travis Hartnett wrote:

> Because live music on the local level doesn't have much monetary  
> value and supply greatly outstrips demand.
>
>
> TH
>
> On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:13 PM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>
>
> I'm with Chris. Playing for free only hurts good music in the long
> run. Why shouldn't a good musician's work be valued just as highly as
> a good carpenter's work?
>
> per
>
>


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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
Only because we allow it. I say bring back the union.=A0<div><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"text-decoration: underline;"><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></span></div><div><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"text-decoration: =
underline;"><br></span><div><div>On Apr 10, 2008, at 4:23 PM, Travis =
Hartnett wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Because live music on the local level doesn't have much =
monetary value and supply greatly outstrips =
demand.<br><br><br>TH<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 10, =
2008 at 1:13 PM, Per Boysen &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:perboysen@gmail.com">perboysen@gmail.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px =
solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: =
1ex;"><div><div></div><div class=3D"Wj3C7c"><br> <br> </div></div>I'm =
with Chris. Playing for free only hurts good music in the long<br> run. =
Why shouldn't a good musician's work be valued just as highly as<br> a =
good carpenter's work?<br> <font color=3D"#888888"><br> per<br> <br> =
</font></blockquote></div><br></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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The Musicians Union never went away...

TH

On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com> wrote:

> Only because we allow it. I say bring back the union.
>
>
>

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The Musicians Union never went away...<br><br>TH<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Chris Sewell &lt;<a href="mailto:lunamusic@mac.com">lunamusic@mac.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div style="">
Only because we allow it. I say bring back the union.&nbsp;<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><div><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><br></span></div><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br>

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From: Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com>
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Its power did. Used to be, you couldn't get on stage in any reputable  
venue without a union card.


On Apr 10, 2008, at 4:31 PM, Travis Hartnett wrote:

> The Musicians Union never went away...
>
> TH
>
> On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com>  
> wrote:
> Only because we allow it. I say bring back the union.
>
>
>


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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
Its power did. Used to be, you couldn't get on stage in any reputable =
venue without a union card.<div><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br><div><div>On Apr 10, =
2008, at 4:31 PM, Travis Hartnett wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite">The =
Musicians Union never went away...<br><br>TH<br><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Chris Sewell =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lunamusic@mac.com">lunamusic@mac.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px =
solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: =
1ex;"> <div style=3D""> Only because we allow it. I say bring back the =
union.=A0<div><div></div><div class=3D"Wj3C7c"><div><span =
style=3D"text-decoration: =
underline;"><br></span></div><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br>=
</blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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Right, but how many *decades* ago?

The idea of "union" musicians doesn't work in most circumstances these days,
and the proliferation of an near infinite library of world-class recordings
at bargain prices has forever put a stake though the heart of that concept.

But yes, I too get misty-eyed at the thought of getting union-scale to play
jazz standards at a polite volume at Rudy's Speakeasy five sets a night.
Those were the days.

TH

On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:36 PM, Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com> wrote:

> Its power did. Used to be, you couldn't get on stage in any reputable
> venue without a union card.
>
>
>
>

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Right, but how many *decades* ago?&nbsp; <br><br>The idea of &quot;union&quot; musicians doesn&#39;t work in most circumstances these days, and the proliferation of an near infinite library of world-class recordings at bargain prices has forever put a stake though the heart of that concept.<br>
<br>But yes, I too get misty-eyed at the thought of getting union-scale to play jazz standards at a polite volume at Rudy&#39;s Speakeasy five sets a night.&nbsp; Those were the days.<br><br>TH<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:36 PM, Chris Sewell &lt;<a href="mailto:lunamusic@mac.com">lunamusic@mac.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div style="">
Its power did. Used to be, you couldn&#39;t get on stage in any reputable venue without a union card.<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><div><br></div><div><br><br></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br>

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Well...imagine a really good carpenter who likes to build abstract 
wooden sculptures in his backyard. If he wants to give them away to 
local libraries so that the locals can enjoy them, how does that take 
away business or interest from the tradesmen building chairs and tables? 
Okay, maybe the other tradesmen want to sell their abstract sculptures 
to the libraries at a good price, but if the libraries can't afford any 
more for sculpture, do they need to go without, or can they accept a gift?

Seems to me that one can get a certain Swedish experimental record 
called "Ooh" for free on Jamendo... :-D .

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com
> I'm with Chris. Playing for free only hurts good music in the long
> run. Why shouldn't a good musician's work be valued just as highly as
> a good carpenter's work?
>
> per
>
>
>   

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You kids and and your Rock and Roll, In my day we used to GET PAID!
On Apr 10, 2008, at 4:47 PM, Travis Hartnett wrote:

> Right, but how many *decades* ago?
>
> The idea of "union" musicians doesn't work in most circumstances  
> these days, and the proliferation of an near infinite library of  
> world-class recordings at bargain prices has forever put a stake  
> though the heart of that concept.
>
> But yes, I too get misty-eyed at the thought of getting union-scale  
> to play jazz standards at a polite volume at Rudy's Speakeasy five  
> sets a night.  Those were the days.
>
> TH
>
> On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:36 PM, Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com>  
> wrote:
> Its power did. Used to be, you couldn't get on stage in any  
> reputable venue without a union card.
>
>
>
>


--Apple-Mail-3--226778928
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">You kids and and your Rock and =
Roll, In my day we used to GET PAID!<br><div><div>On Apr 10, 2008, at =
4:47 PM, Travis Hartnett wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Right, but =
how many *decades* ago?=A0 <br><br>The idea of "union" musicians doesn't =
work in most circumstances these days, and the proliferation of an near =
infinite library of world-class recordings at bargain prices has forever =
put a stake though the heart of that concept.<br> <br>But yes, I too get =
misty-eyed at the thought of getting union-scale to play jazz standards =
at a polite volume at Rudy's Speakeasy five sets a night.=A0 Those were =
the days.<br><br>TH<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"> On Thu, Apr 10, =
2008 at 1:36 PM, Chris Sewell &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lunamusic@mac.com">lunamusic@mac.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px =
solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: =
1ex;"> <div style=3D""> Its power did. Used to be, you couldn't get on =
stage in any reputable venue without a union card.<div><div></div><div =
class=3D"Wj3C7c"><div><br></div><div><br><br></div></div></div></div></blo=
ckquote></div><br></blockquote></div><br></body></html>=

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From: Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Looping venue help
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 17:05:02 -0400
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Good point. The gigs you will be doing will in no way effect my  
bottom line. Still, we differ philosophically on the economics of  
music. Just think, if all the experimental musicians thought enough  
of their craft to demand compensation what that would do for peoples  
perceptions of it.

On Apr 10, 2008, at 4:48 PM, Daryl Shawn wrote:

> Well...imagine a really good carpenter who likes to build abstract  
> wooden sculptures in his backyard. If he wants to give them away to  
> local libraries so that the locals can enjoy them, how does that  
> take away business or interest from the tradesmen building chairs  
> and tables? Okay, maybe the other tradesmen want to sell their  
> abstract sculptures to the libraries at a good price, but if the  
> libraries can't afford any more for sculpture, do they need to go  
> without, or can they accept a gift?
>
> Seems to me that one can get a certain Swedish experimental record  
> called "Ooh" for free on Jamendo... :-D .
>
> Daryl Shawn
> www.swanwelder.com
> www.chinapaintingmusic.com
>> I'm with Chris. Playing for free only hurts good music in the long
>> run. Why shouldn't a good musician's work be valued just as highly as
>> a good carpenter's work?
>>
>> per
>>
>>
>>
>

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From: Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Looping venue help
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 17:06:22 -0400
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On Apr 10, 2008, at 5:05 PM, Chris Sewell wrote:

> Just think, if all the experimental musicians thought enough of  
> their craft to demand compensation what that would do for peoples  
> perceptions of it.

That didn't come out right. Sorry.


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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
<div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><br></div><div><div>On Apr 10, 2008, at 5:05 PM, =
Chris Sewell wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><p =
style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica" =
size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">Just think, if all the =
experimental musicians thought enough of their craft to demand =
compensation what that would do for peoples perceptions of =
it.</font></p> </blockquote><br></div><div>That didn't come out right. =
Sorry.=A0</div><br></body></html>=

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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:11:04 -0700
From: "Travis Hartnett" <travishartnett@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Looping venue help
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They would assume that not only were the musicians involved talentless, but
also...crazy?

I'll never forget standing at MoMa before that huge Jackson Pollack piece
and hearing the family next to me snort in disgust and say "Our kid could do
that..."  I felt like I was in some Saturday Evening Post cartoon from the
50's.

TH

On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 2:05 PM, Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com> wrote:

>  Just think, if all the experimental musicians thought enough of their
> craft to demand compensation what that would do for peoples perceptions of
> it.
>

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They would assume that not only were the musicians involved talentless, but also...crazy?&nbsp; <br><br>I&#39;ll never forget standing at MoMa before that huge Jackson Pollack piece and hearing the family next to me snort in disgust and say &quot;Our kid could do that...&quot;&nbsp; I felt like I was in some Saturday Evening Post cartoon from the 50&#39;s.<br>
<br>TH<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 2:05 PM, Chris Sewell &lt;<a href="mailto:lunamusic@mac.com">lunamusic@mac.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
&nbsp;Just think, if all the experimental musicians thought enough of their craft to demand compensation what that would do for peoples perceptions of it.<div><br></div></blockquote></div><br>

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From: Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Looping venue help
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 17:23:38 -0400
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Really!? So they're forced to give it away? That makes no sense to  
me. Thats actually quite sad.

On Apr 10, 2008, at 5:11 PM, Travis Hartnett wrote:

> They would assume that not only were the musicians involved  
> talentless, but also...crazy?
>
> I'll never forget standing at MoMa before that huge Jackson Pollack  
> piece and hearing the family next to me snort in disgust and say  
> "Our kid could do that..."  I felt like I was in some Saturday  
> Evening Post cartoon from the 50's.
>
> TH
>
> On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 2:05 PM, Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com>  
> wrote:
>  Just think, if all the experimental musicians thought enough of  
> their craft to demand compensation what that would do for peoples  
> perceptions of it.
>
>


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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
Really!? So they're forced to give it away? That makes no sense to me. =
Thats actually quite sad.=A0<div>=A0<br><div><div>On Apr 10, 2008, at =
5:11 PM, Travis Hartnett wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite">They would =
assume that not only were the musicians involved talentless, but =
also...crazy?=A0 <br><br>I'll never forget standing at MoMa before that =
huge Jackson Pollack piece and hearing the family next to me snort in =
disgust and say "Our kid could do that..."=A0 I felt like I was in some =
Saturday Evening Post cartoon from the 50's.<br> <br>TH<br><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 2:05 PM, Chris Sewell =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lunamusic@mac.com">lunamusic@mac.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px =
solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: =
1ex;"> =A0Just think, if all the experimental musicians thought enough =
of their craft to demand compensation what that would do for peoples =
perceptions of =
it.<div><br></div></blockquote></div><br></blockquote></div><br></div></bo=
dy></html>=

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all valid points here in their own right and I first wasn't going to comment
publicly as Daryl is a good friend, co-artist and collaborator in the
Chinapainting duo of which we've had some similar dialog on some marketing
strategies for Chinapainting.  I didn't want it felt that my opinions were
not objective enough but I think I have some things to share on this
thread.

All I've ever wanted to do in my adult years has been make a living as a
musician.  The reality in that is if you are willing to change your living
standards sometimes then it's entirely possible.  David
Wilcox<http://www.davidwilcox.com/>(fine guitarist/singer-songwriter)
basically did that early in his career,
he wanted to music all the time, had no real responsibilities as I recall
and so he lowered his needs and made it until things got better.

My real belief and desire to put my all into music also came at the most
complicated time in my life when I had moved to NY, married with 2 new
children who would later be in private school.  For family health care now
costs me $950/mo. and if I had a car which I no longer do insurance is not
cheap here.  So making income is important to me and I too have a similar
day gig to Daryl's though not as fortunate to be home-based but salute corp
America M-F in a law firm.  Though it's not so bad as I get a month off a
year which is good for family vacation and still leaving time for limited
touring for me.  I do work at and never let go of the possibility that what
I may be doing may set the stage for music taking over.   I have had a few
things happen to inch that forward such as publishing with Mel
Bay<http://www.melbay.com/>that though it won't pay the rent it will
subsidize my retirement though I
never figure I'll retire, my feeling is at that age I'll be on the road with
music if I'm healthy and things go well.  But anyhow the publishing gen's a
small bit of money, I also freelance doing Finale which gen's some cash and
I teach a small bit, all enough to profit/loss my music.

In the end though as altruistic as what Chris said and has been said to me
many times, don't play for free and yes there is the arguement that doing it
breaks down the strength of indie artists but gosh what are we supposed to
do, sit home and play for the wife and girlfriend and cats!  Music can't be
kept inside it must be played for people.  One stage of mine happens every
day and that is playing on the subway platform while waiting on the train
and occasionally it generates some cash, it once brought me a wedding that
led to a nice sum so I've learned you never know where the music will go or
what it will lead to.  In the end I know personally I must perform the music
that I've been given or allowed to realize as it's a gift, regardless
whether I make income or have to pay my way to go do it. I've made some
judgement calls over time meaning yes there are times it makes sense to say
no but in the long run I will as one of my main influences said, *'play
guitar for anyone who will listen'*.

Lastly a mentor of a few years ago often reminded me that even Charlie Ives
had a day gig.

Go play for someone today whether it puts food on your table or not...

Best to all

jim
www.jimgoodinmusic.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com
www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic
www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic
www.myspace.com/jimgoodinviolinelectro
www.myspace.com/eastofwhere
www.myspace.com/jimgoodinsoundscapes



On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com> wrote:

> Its power did. Used to be, you couldn't get on stage in any reputable
> venue without a union card.
>
>
>  On Apr 10, 2008, at 4:31 PM, Travis Hartnett wrote:
>
> The Musicians Union never went away...
>
> TH
>
> On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > Only because we allow it. I say bring back the union.
> >
> >
> >
>
>


-- 
The Acoustic World Guitar of Jim Goodin - http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com
MySpace (solo) - http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic
Chinapainting -
http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com
Chinapainting on My Space -
http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com
The Jim Goodin label and home for 7 other creative souls -
http://www.woodandwiremusic.com
Jim Goodin uses GHS Strings - http://www.ghsstrings.com and Seagull Guitars
- http://www.seagullguitars.com, Jim Goodin is published by Mel Bay
Publications, Inc. - http://www.melbay.com

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<div>all valid points here in their own right and I first wasn&#39;t going =
to comment publicly as Daryl is a good friend, co-artist and collaborator i=
n the Chinapainting duo of which we&#39;ve had some similar dialog on some =
marketing strategies for Chinapainting.&nbsp; I didn&#39;t want it felt tha=
t my opinions were not objective enough but I think I have some things to s=
hare on this thread.&nbsp; </div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>All I&#39;ve ever wanted to do in my adult years has been make a livin=
g as a musician.&nbsp; The reality in that is if you are willing to change =
your living standards sometimes then it&#39;s entirely possible.&nbsp; <a h=
ref=3D"http://www.davidwilcox.com/">David Wilcox</a> (fine guitarist/singer=
-songwriter) basically did that early in his career, he wanted to music all=
 the time, had no real responsibilities as I recall and so he lowered his n=
eeds and made it until things got better.&nbsp; </div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>My real belief and desire to put my all into music also came at the mo=
st complicated time in my life when I&nbsp;had moved to NY, married with 2 =
new children who would later be in&nbsp;private school.&nbsp; For family he=
alth care now costs me $950/mo. and if I had a car which I no longer do ins=
urance is not cheap here.&nbsp; So making income is important to me and I t=
oo have a similar day gig to Daryl&#39;s though not as fortunate to be home=
-based but salute corp America M-F in a law firm.&nbsp; Though it&#39;s not=
 so bad as I get a month off a year which is good for family vacation and s=
till leaving time&nbsp;for&nbsp;limited touring for me.&nbsp; I do work at =
and never let go of the possibility that what I may be doing may set the st=
age for&nbsp;music taking over.&nbsp; &nbsp;I have had a few things happen =
to inch that forward such as publishing with <a href=3D"http://www.melbay.c=
om/">Mel Bay</a> that though it won&#39;t pay the rent&nbsp;it will&nbsp;su=
bsidize my retirement though I never figure I&#39;ll retire, my feeling is =
at that age I&#39;ll be on the road with music if I&#39;m healthy and thing=
s go well.&nbsp; But anyhow the publishing gen&#39;s a small bit of money, =
I also freelance doing Finale which gen&#39;s some cash and I teach a small=
 bit, all enough to profit/loss my music.&nbsp; </div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>In the end though as altruistic as what Chris said and has been said t=
o me many times, don&#39;t play for free and yes there is the arguement tha=
t doing it breaks down the strength of indie artists but gosh what are we s=
upposed to do, sit home and play for the wife and girlfriend and cats!&nbsp=
; Music can&#39;t be kept inside it must be played for people.&nbsp; One st=
age of mine happens every day and that is playing on the subway platform wh=
ile waiting on the train and occasionally it generates some cash, it once b=
rought me a wedding that led to&nbsp;a nice sum&nbsp;so I&#39;ve learned yo=
u never know where the music will go or what it will lead to.&nbsp; In the =
end I know personally I must perform the music that I&#39;ve been given or =
allowed to realize as it&#39;s a gift, regardless whether I make income or =
have to pay my way to go do it. I&#39;ve made some judgement calls over tim=
e meaning yes there are times it makes sense to say no but in the long run =
I will as one of my main influences said, <em>&#39;play guitar for anyone w=
ho will listen&#39;</em>.&nbsp; </div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Lastly a mentor of a few years ago often reminded me that even Charlie=
 Ives had a day gig.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Go play for someone today whether it puts food on your table or not...=
</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Best to all</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>jim</div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com/">www.jimgoodinmusic.com</a><=
/div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com/">www.chinapaintingmusic.=
com</a></div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic">www.myspace.com/=
chinapaintingmusic</a></div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic">www.myspace.com/jimg=
oodinmusic</a></div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinviolinelectro">www.myspace.=
com/jimgoodinviolinelectro</a></div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/eastofwhere">www.myspace.com/eastofw=
here</a></div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinsoundscapes">www.myspace.co=
m/jimgoodinsoundscapes</a></div>
<div><br><br>&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Chris Sewell &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:lunamusic@mac.com">lunamusic@mac.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word">Its power did. Used to be, you couldn&=
#39;t get on stage in any reputable venue without a union card.=20
<div>
<div></div>
<div class=3D"Wj3C7c">
<div><br></div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Apr 10, 2008, at 4:31 PM, Travis Hartnett wrote:</div><br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">The Musicians Union never went away...<br><br>TH<=
br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Chris Sewell &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:lunamusic@mac.com" target=3D"_blank">lunamusic@mac.com<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0=
pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<div>Only because we allow it. I say bring back the union.&nbsp;=20
<div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div><span style=3D"TEXT-DECORATION: underline"><br></span></div><br></div>=
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div=
></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>The Acoustic Wor=
ld Guitar of Jim Goodin - <a href=3D"http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com">http://=
www.jimgoodinmusic.com</a><br>
MySpace (solo) - <a href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic">http://w=
ww.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic</a><br>Chinapainting -<br><a href=3D"http://w=
ww.chinapaintingmusic.com">http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com</a><br>Chinapa=
inting on My Space -<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com">http://www.myspac=
e.com/chinapaintingmusic.com</a><br>The Jim Goodin label and home for 7 oth=
er creative souls - <a href=3D"http://www.woodandwiremusic.com">http://www.=
woodandwiremusic.com</a> <br>
Jim Goodin uses GHS Strings - <a href=3D"http://www.ghsstrings.com">http://=
www.ghsstrings.com</a> and Seagull Guitars - <a href=3D"http://www.seagullg=
uitars.com">http://www.seagullguitars.com</a>, Jim Goodin is published by M=
el Bay Publications, Inc. - <a href=3D"http://www.melbay.com">http://www.me=
lbay.com</a>=20

------=_Part_36815_15364423.1207862932639--

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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Looping venue help
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Quoting Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com>:

> When you play for free, you take a gig away from a
> musician that is trying to make a living.
>
Interesting comment.

I am aware that my paid gigs would be played by other musicians if I  
didn't take them.  I doubt if the same is true for the few unpaid gigs  
that I play.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 10 21:38:50 2008
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just a few words on minimizing bleeding on percussion (w/out inear):

I pay attention to the order I'm looping various percussion instruments: Usually, fragile/subtle goes first, then come the "punchy" stuff. Hi Freq stuff comes last, because I can filter it hard and mix it with the other stuff.
Filter/EQ can help a lot.

While this may sound silly, I wonder if it is possible to use something like a "foam box" to isolate i.e. a drum from bleeding?

Buzap


-- 
Psst! Geheimtipp: Online Games kostenlos spielen bei den GMX Free Games! 
http://games.entertainment.gmx.net/de/entertainment/games/free

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From: Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com>
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I'm curious to know, how many free gigs do you actually ask for  
money? Or do you assume its free?
On Apr 10, 2008, at 5:28 PM, Jim Goodin wrote:

> all valid points here in their own right and I first wasn't going  
> to comment publicly as Daryl is a good friend, co-artist and  
> collaborator in the Chinapainting duo of which we've had some  
> similar dialog on some marketing strategies for Chinapainting.  I  
> didn't want it felt that my opinions were not objective enough but  
> I think I have some things to share on this thread.
>
> All I've ever wanted to do in my adult years has been make a living  
> as a musician.  The reality in that is if you are willing to change  
> your living standards sometimes then it's entirely possible.  David  
> Wilcox (fine guitarist/singer-songwriter) basically did that early  
> in his career, he wanted to music all the time, had no real  
> responsibilities as I recall and so he lowered his needs and made  
> it until things got better.
>
> My real belief and desire to put my all into music also came at the  
> most complicated time in my life when I had moved to NY, married  
> with 2 new children who would later be in private school.  For  
> family health care now costs me $950/mo. and if I had a car which I  
> no longer do insurance is not cheap here.  So making income is  
> important to me and I too have a similar day gig to Daryl's though  
> not as fortunate to be home-based but salute corp America M-F in a  
> law firm.  Though it's not so bad as I get a month off a year which  
> is good for family vacation and still leaving time for limited  
> touring for me.  I do work at and never let go of the possibility  
> that what I may be doing may set the stage for music taking over.    
> I have had a few things happen to inch that forward such as  
> publishing with Mel Bay that though it won't pay the rent it will  
> subsidize my retirement though I never figure I'll retire, my  
> feeling is at that age I'll be on the road with music if I'm  
> healthy and things go well.  But anyhow the publishing gen's a  
> small bit of money, I also freelance doing Finale which gen's some  
> cash and I teach a small bit, all enough to profit/loss my music.
>
> In the end though as altruistic as what Chris said and has been  
> said to me many times, don't play for free and yes there is the  
> arguement that doing it breaks down the strength of indie artists  
> but gosh what are we supposed to do, sit home and play for the wife  
> and girlfriend and cats!  Music can't be kept inside it must be  
> played for people.  One stage of mine happens every day and that is  
> playing on the subway platform while waiting on the train and  
> occasionally it generates some cash, it once brought me a wedding  
> that led to a nice sum so I've learned you never know where the  
> music will go or what it will lead to.  In the end I know  
> personally I must perform the music that I've been given or allowed  
> to realize as it's a gift, regardless whether I make income or have  
> to pay my way to go do it. I've made some judgement calls over time  
> meaning yes there are times it makes sense to say no but in the  
> long run I will as one of my main influences said, 'play guitar for  
> anyone who will listen'.
>
> Lastly a mentor of a few years ago often reminded me that even  
> Charlie Ives had a day gig.
>
> Go play for someone today whether it puts food on your table or not...
>
> Best to all
>
> jim
> www.jimgoodinmusic.com
> www.chinapaintingmusic.com
> www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic
> www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic
> www.myspace.com/jimgoodinviolinelectro
> www.myspace.com/eastofwhere
> www.myspace.com/jimgoodinsoundscapes
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com>  
> wrote:
> Its power did. Used to be, you couldn't get on stage in any  
> reputable venue without a union card.
>
>
> On Apr 10, 2008, at 4:31 PM, Travis Hartnett wrote:
>
>> The Musicians Union never went away...
>>
>> TH
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com>  
>> wrote:
>> Only because we allow it. I say bring back the union.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> The Acoustic World Guitar of Jim Goodin - http:// 
> www.jimgoodinmusic.com
> MySpace (solo) - http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic
> Chinapainting -
> http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com
> Chinapainting on My Space -
> http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com
> The Jim Goodin label and home for 7 other creative souls - http:// 
> www.woodandwiremusic.com
> Jim Goodin uses GHS Strings - http://www.ghsstrings.com and Seagull  
> Guitars - http://www.seagullguitars.com, Jim Goodin is published by  
> Mel Bay Publications, Inc. - http://www.melbay.com


--Apple-Mail-6--224189919
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=ISO-8859-1

<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><br></div><div>I'm curious =
to know, how many free gigs do you actually ask for money? Or do you =
assume its free?=A0<br><div><div>On Apr 10, 2008, at 5:28 PM, Jim Goodin =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>all valid points here in their own right and I first =
wasn't going to comment publicly as Daryl is a good friend, co-artist =
and collaborator in the Chinapainting duo of which we've had some =
similar dialog on some marketing strategies for Chinapainting.=A0 I =
didn't want it felt that my opinions were not objective enough but I =
think I have some things to share on this thread.=A0 </div> <div>=A0</div>=
 <div>All I've ever wanted to do in my adult years has been make a =
living as a musician.=A0 The reality in that is if you are willing to =
change your living standards sometimes then it's entirely possible.=A0 =
<a href=3D"http://www.davidwilcox.com/">David Wilcox</a> (fine =
guitarist/singer-songwriter) basically did that early in his career, he =
wanted to music all the time, had no real responsibilities as I recall =
and so he lowered his needs and made it until things got better.=A0 =
</div> <div>=A0</div> <div>My real belief and desire to put my all into =
music also came at the most complicated time in my life when I=A0had =
moved to NY, married with 2 new children who would later be in=A0private =
school.=A0 For family health care now costs me $950/mo. and if I had a =
car which I no longer do insurance is not cheap here.=A0 So making =
income is important to me and I too have a similar day gig to Daryl's =
though not as fortunate to be home-based but salute corp America M-F in =
a law firm.=A0 Though it's not so bad as I get a month off a year which =
is good for family vacation and still leaving time=A0for=A0limited =
touring for me.=A0 I do work at and never let go of the possibility that =
what I may be doing may set the stage for=A0music taking over.=A0 =A0I =
have had a few things happen to inch that forward such as publishing =
with <a href=3D"http://www.melbay.com/">Mel Bay</a> that though it won't =
pay the rent=A0it will=A0subsidize my retirement though I never figure =
I'll retire, my feeling is at that age I'll be on the road with music if =
I'm healthy and things go well.=A0 But anyhow the publishing gen's a =
small bit of money, I also freelance doing Finale which gen's some cash =
and I teach a small bit, all enough to profit/loss my music.=A0 </div> =
<div>=A0</div> <div>In the end though as altruistic as what Chris said =
and has been said to me many times, don't play for free and yes there is =
the arguement that doing it breaks down the strength of indie artists =
but gosh what are we supposed to do, sit home and play for the wife and =
girlfriend and cats!=A0 Music can't be kept inside it must be played for =
people.=A0 One stage of mine happens every day and that is playing on =
the subway platform while waiting on the train and occasionally it =
generates some cash, it once brought me a wedding that led to=A0a nice =
sum=A0so I've learned you never know where the music will go or what it =
will lead to.=A0 In the end I know personally I must perform the music =
that I've been given or allowed to realize as it's a gift, regardless =
whether I make income or have to pay my way to go do it. I've made some =
judgement calls over time meaning yes there are times it makes sense to =
say no but in the long run I will as one of my main influences said, =
<em>'play guitar for anyone who will listen'</em>.=A0 </div> =
<div>=A0</div> <div>Lastly a mentor of a few years ago often reminded me =
that even Charlie Ives had a day gig.</div> <div>=A0</div> <div>Go play =
for someone today whether it puts food on your table or not...</div> =
<div>=A0</div> <div>Best to all</div> <div>=A0</div> <div>jim</div> =
<div><a =
href=3D"http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com/">www.jimgoodinmusic.com</a></div> =
<div><a =
href=3D"http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com/">www.chinapaintingmusic.com</a>=
</div> <div><a =
href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic">www.myspace.com/chinapa=
intingmusic</a></div> <div><a =
href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic">www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmu=
sic</a></div> <div><a =
href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinviolinelectro">www.myspace.com/jim=
goodinviolinelectro</a></div> <div><a =
href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/eastofwhere">www.myspace.com/eastofwhere</a=
></div> <div><a =
href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinsoundscapes">www.myspace.com/jimgo=
odinsoundscapes</a></div> <div><br><br>=A0</div> <div =
class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Chris Sewell =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lunamusic@mac.com">lunamusic@mac.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; =
MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"> <div =
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word">Its power did. Used to be, you couldn't =
get on stage in any reputable venue without a union card. <div> =
<div></div> <div class=3D"Wj3C7c"> <div><br></div> <div><br> <div> =
<div>On Apr 10, 2008, at 4:31 PM, Travis Hartnett wrote:</div><br> =
<blockquote type=3D"cite">The Musicians Union never went =
away...<br><br>TH<br><br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 10, =
2008 at 1:29 PM, Chris Sewell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lunamusic@mac.com" =
target=3D"_blank">lunamusic@mac.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br> <blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt =
0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"> <div>Only because we =
allow it. I say bring back the union.=A0 <div> <div></div> <div> =
<div><span style=3D"TEXT-DECORATION: =
underline"><br></span></div><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><=
/blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br =
clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>The Acoustic World Guitar of Jim Goodin - <a =
href=3D"http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com">http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com</a><b=
r> MySpace (solo) - <a =
href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic">http://www.myspace.com/jimg=
oodinmusic</a><br>Chinapainting -<br><a =
href=3D"http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com">http://www.chinapaintingmusic.c=
om</a><br>Chinapainting on My Space -<br> <a =
href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com">http://www.myspace.=
com/chinapaintingmusic.com</a><br>The Jim Goodin label and home for 7 =
other creative souls - <a =
href=3D"http://www.woodandwiremusic.com">http://www.woodandwiremusic.com</=
a> <br> Jim Goodin uses GHS Strings - <a =
href=3D"http://www.ghsstrings.com">http://www.ghsstrings.com</a> and =
Seagull Guitars - <a =
href=3D"http://www.seagullguitars.com">http://www.seagullguitars.com</a>, =
Jim Goodin is published by Mel Bay Publications, Inc. - <a =
href=3D"http://www.melbay.com">http://www.melbay.com</a> =
</blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 10 21:54:54 2008
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From: "Bob Amstadt" <bobld@amstadt.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <47FE3EE1.8070504@mhorse.com> <B4F56DD1-352F-4EBB-9F13-0DDD25B68737@mac.com> <47FE51BA.30806@mhorse.com> <139E0163-9685-4767-9FBD-05238252B1FC@mac.com>
Subject: Re: OT: compensation (WAS Re: Looping venue help)
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:54:51 -0700
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I think this discussion of compensation is interesting one because clearly 
the music industry is going through a transistion right now in many aspects 
of the business.

I personally have never played a free gig that could have gone to a paid 
musician.  I prefer to play backyard parties hosted by myself or my friends, 
or play at charity events for organizations I'm connected with.  Even so, 
I'm often compensated with at least a meal at the charity events.  I 
wouldn't feel right performing for free if it means taking away a paying gig 
from a professional.

That said, it seems to me that there are fewer and fewer venues willing to 
pay for live entertainment.  I see DJs at a great many parties.  I see 
karaoke at venues that would have had live bands in the past.  In general, I 
think that there are more musicians looking for gigs than there are gigs to 
be had.  On top of that, there are many part time musicians that see the 
chance to play in public as compensation enough for what they do.  I know 
this bothers many professional musicians, but we do live in a society where 
the laws of supply and demand apply.  Is it wrong for actors to perform at a 
community theater for free?

Where does this leave the professional musician?  I don't know.  I 
personally try to support professional musicians.  I think this world would 
be awful if the only people that could afford a life in music would be the 
Britney Spears of the world.  There is so much more interesting music 
created by musicians just barely earning a living.

I also think that no matter what occupation you are involved in, it is 
important to value yourself.  If you give something away for free, people 
tend to treat you and your work as worthless.  I've had this discussion with 
somebody outside of music with their trade.  When they give away their 
service for free, they are treated poorly.  When they charge an appropriate 
fee for the very same work, the customers treat the worker with respect. 
So, I agree that if you are performing music in public, it is important to 
charge an appropriate fee or people will treat you like a beggar.

--Bob


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 10 22:02:30 2008
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From: "Buzap Buzap" <buzap@gmx.net>
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Subject: in-ear till my ears bleed?
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Hi folks

I have two mini-mixers that have a seperate headphone out.
I'm very much tempted to buy decent ear-phones and test this setup for in-ear monitoring.

My question is:
Is working without a limiter complete suicide (for my ears)?

In terms of space & money, it seems that instead of getting a designated limiter, I might as well buy a cheap wireless in-ear monitor system...

Please let me know if this is reasonable or just crazy.

thanks
Buzap
-- 
GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen!
Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/?mc=sv_ext_mf@gmx

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 10 22:21:32 2008
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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 17:21:11 -0400
From: Scott Duncan <scottd@webworkz.com>
Subject: Re: Looping venue help/jackson pollack
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On Apr 10, 2008, at 5:11 PM, Travis Hartnett wrote:
>
> I'll never forget standing at MoMa before that huge Jackson Pollack  
> piece and hearing the family next to me snort in disgust and say  
> "Our kid could do that..."  I felt like I was in some Saturday  
> Evening Post cartoon from the 50's.
>

don't you think that in some ways the observer was right? with enough  
paint & a huge canvas, many people, young & old "Could" do something  
"Like" that....

but jackson was bold enough/ talented enough to "will" it into  
existence and have it be recognized as being of artistic & monetary  
value.....

the discussions are always of value to me. thank you all --

Scott Duncan
Video-(loop)-ographer

www.myspace.com/scottduncanvideo











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<HTML><BODY style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; =
-khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><DIV>On Apr 10, 2008, at 5:11 =
PM, Travis Hartnett wrote:</DIV><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR =
style=3D"">I'll never forget standing at MoMa before that huge Jackson =
Pollack piece and hearing the family next to me snort in disgust and say =
"Our kid could do that..."=A0 I felt like I was in some Saturday Evening =
Post cartoon from the 50's.<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>don't you think that in some =
ways the observer was right? with enough paint &amp; a huge canvas, many =
people, young &amp; old "Could" do something "Like" that....<DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>but jackson was bold =
enough/ talented enough to "will" it into existence and have it be =
recognized as being of artistic &amp; monetary value.....</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>the discussions are always =
of value to me. thank you all --</DIV><DIV><BR><DIV> <SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>Scott =
Duncan</DIV><DIV><I style=3D"font-style: italic; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-style: italic; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-style: italic; =
">Video-(loop)-ographer</SPAN></SPAN></I></DIV><DIV><I =
style=3D"font-style: italic; "><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></I></DIV><DIV><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"text-decoration: =
underline;">www.myspace.com/scottduncanvideo</SPAN></DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><FONT =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"3"><SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 11px;"><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></SPAN></FONT></DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></S=
PAN></SPAN> </DIV><BR><DIV><DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>=

--Apple-Mail-5--225478632--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 10 22:22:15 2008
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From: "Krispen Hartung" <khartung@cableone.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
References: <47FE3EE1.8070504@mhorse.com> <B4F56DD1-352F-4EBB-9F13-0DDD25B68737@mac.com> <47FE6821.4060703@tiscali.co.uk> <66f9cc1e0804101313v891f799jc4a464265b519b08@mail.gmail.com> <3187EBF6-5C2A-48A7-BF81-CC628854A70D@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Looping venue help
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...on the topic of playing for free. I love these topics!  Too bad I can't 
take credit or instigating it. :)

Maybe we should set the context appropriately here and explain that this is 
not a black and white issue. Genre, context, venue, personal philosophy on 
economics and politics, among other things have a lot to do with it.  Two 
local examples come to mind:

1) A traditional jazz gig at a prominent restaurant, down town Boise (or any 
gig for a popular form of music)
2) The Boise Experimental Music Festival (or any festival for the creative 
or avant-garde arts)

For 1), I played at the venue for 1.5 years, every Monday night (which is a 
decent run time for this type of gig), and was paid $50 a night, plus free 
drinks and dinner (estimated value of $75 at this venue), total $125 a 
person for 3 45-min sets.  This is a very typical rate for this type of gig 
here, at restaurants. Private gigs will pay a lot more, between $100 and 
$500 a person. And of course, duos will get paid more per person and 
quartets just because of the math.   In this case, local musicians would get 
very irritated if someone like me (who doesn't even need to get paid to play 
music to make a living) came in and undercut a them for 40% of the pay. Not 
only would it irritate them, but it would be considered unethical by many. 
Many local musicians play for a living, and so maintaining competitive rates 
is vital to them putting food on the table and supporting their families. In 
fact, in this light, I don't even feel right taking these gigs from folks 
who play for a living.  I should have donated by fee to my bass player and 
percussionist, who did play for a living, rather than spending it on more 
looping toys. Wow, I guess I'm an egoist/hedonist afterall. :)  This is why 
I don't mind not playing these gigs anymore, and now when I get calls for 
private jazz gigs, I pass them on to guys who need them.

So, in a sense I sort of agree with whoever said that when you play for 
free, you are taking a gig away from someone who plays for a living. You 
could take it even further and say that when you play for fee, but don't 
really need the money, you are doing that same. It all depends on your 
political and socio-economic philosophy I suppose. One could also just as 
easily take a socio-economic Darwinist approach and say it's just survival 
of the fittest, in this case, who is shrewd, smart, or good enough to get 
the gigs, regardless of whether they play for fee or free, or whether they 
even need the money. Who he hell cares? It's dog eat dog...let the best band 
win, however you construe "best".  We have to be careful with the moral high 
road here, because all of us probably do something, in varying degrees, that 
results in getting compensation or a benefit that we really don't need in 
the extreme sense, which could benefit someone else more.  So, I don't 
really know. In the end, all I can stand by is my belief that this comes 
down to your own personal philosophy on the value of playing, economics, 
politics, etc.  I am in no position to say that any viewpoint is right or 
wrong here, only that I would not feel good playing for free or fee, when I 
don't need the money and I'm taking the opportunity away from someone who 
does it for living. That's just my personal feeling, not a dictate or 
principle.

For 2), the festival, I have 22 out of state performers and 8 local 
performers. The average cost per performer to attend this festival 
(excluding those who get their own financial support, grants, etc) is $650, 
times 22 is $14,300. If I am lucky, after festival expenses, I can give 
everyone $50, meaning that out of state performers are not just playing for 
free, but they are paying on average of $600 a person to play. And of 
course, I go in the hole personally anywhere between $1000 to $5000, 
depending on what I am buying for the festival.  In this case, paying for 
free/fee doesn't appear to be a problem, because this is not the type of 
event or music that is inherently designed to be profit generating, and so 
musicians are basically glad just to be able to play in such a nice venue 
amongst so many of their peers. The community benefits, socialization, 
cross-pollination, etc, seem to overshadow the financial negatives.  Do I 
feel bad about orchestrating a festival where people pay to play? No. They 
do it voluntarily and make the trade-offs themselves in terms of value, 
benefits, etc.

Kris



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Subject: Re: Engineering Live Loopers (percussion bleeding)
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Interesting idea, I remember a gig a few years ago (not a looping gig) where 
the drummer was on his riser which was surrounded by what looked like 
perspex screens thus providing lots of isolation.

I use the se Electronics Reflexion Filter in my studio and I know there's a 
new smaller one specifically for instruments, I wonder what these are like 
in live situations for reducing spill from the other stage noise. Also some 
of the portable acoustic screens, that are designed for creating 
separation/acoustic treatment within home/project studio environments (I'd 
worry about the road-worthiness of some) but... Anyone tried?
Ian.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Buzap Buzap" <buzap@gmx.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 10:32 PM
Subject: Re: Engineering Live Loopers (percussion bleeding)


> just a few words on minimizing bleeding on percussion (w/out inear):
>
> I pay attention to the order I'm looping various percussion instruments: 
> Usually, fragile/subtle goes first, then come the "punchy" stuff. Hi Freq 
> stuff comes last, because I can filter it hard and mix it with the other 
> stuff.
> Filter/EQ can help a lot.
>
> While this may sound silly, I wonder if it is possible to use something 
> like a "foam box" to isolate i.e. a drum from bleeding?
>
> Buzap
>
>
> -- 
> Psst! Geheimtipp: Online Games kostenlos spielen bei den GMX Free Games!
> http://games.entertainment.gmx.net/de/entertainment/games/free
>
>
> 



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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:33:34 -0400
From: "Jim Goodin" <jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Looping venue help
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Chris if it's in NY in a club it's always about if you as the act bring
enough people, then there is a percentage at many places.  This being why
sometimes a gig is for free, if the turnout is low then generally no
compensation and at times no return engagement.  It's very true that in NY
this is tremendous exploitation of the musician but it's the nature of the
this world here.

Occasionally I get a house concert which most of the time that's understood
it has a fee or atleast that the people attending will donate to the artist
which is generally very sincere in those settings.

As I think about this the main gigs that fall into the free and akin to this
thread are club or bar based atleast in my experience.  I have done a series
of clinics at Sam Ash stores that were product only compensation by GHS so
that falls towards free atleast in what puts food on the table however it's
strings that I would normerally pay for perhaps.

In the end for weddings and other private affairs yes I have been paid and
at times very well.  As said earlier I do persue compensation wherever
possible but there are times when it's been for free.

J

On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com> wrote:

>
> I'm curious to know, how many free gigs do you actually ask for money? Or
> do you assume its free?
>
>  On Apr 10, 2008, at 5:28 PM, Jim Goodin wrote:
>
>  all valid points here in their own right and I first wasn't going to
> comment publicly as Daryl is a good friend, co-artist and collaborator in
> the Chinapainting duo of which we've had some similar dialog on some
> marketing strategies for Chinapainting.  I didn't want it felt that my
> opinions were not objective enough but I think I have some things to share
> on this thread.
>
> All I've ever wanted to do in my adult years has been make a living as a
> musician.  The reality in that is if you are willing to change your living
> standards sometimes then it's entirely possible.  David Wilcox<http://www.davidwilcox.com/>(fine guitarist/singer-songwriter) basically did that early in his career,
> he wanted to music all the time, had no real responsibilities as I recall
> and so he lowered his needs and made it until things got better.
>
> My real belief and desire to put my all into music also came at the most
> complicated time in my life when I had moved to NY, married with 2 new
> children who would later be in private school.  For family health care now
> costs me $950/mo. and if I had a car which I no longer do insurance is not
> cheap here.  So making income is important to me and I too have a similar
> day gig to Daryl's though not as fortunate to be home-based but salute corp
> America M-F in a law firm.  Though it's not so bad as I get a month off a
> year which is good for family vacation and still leaving time for limited
> touring for me.  I do work at and never let go of the possibility that what
> I may be doing may set the stage for music taking over.   I have had a few
> things happen to inch that forward such as publishing with Mel Bay<http://www.melbay.com/>that though it won't pay the rent it will subsidize my retirement though I
> never figure I'll retire, my feeling is at that age I'll be on the road with
> music if I'm healthy and things go well.  But anyhow the publishing gen's a
> small bit of money, I also freelance doing Finale which gen's some cash and
> I teach a small bit, all enough to profit/loss my music.
>
> In the end though as altruistic as what Chris said and has been said to me
> many times, don't play for free and yes there is the arguement that doing it
> breaks down the strength of indie artists but gosh what are we supposed to
> do, sit home and play for the wife and girlfriend and cats!  Music can't be
> kept inside it must be played for people.  One stage of mine happens every
> day and that is playing on the subway platform while waiting on the train
> and occasionally it generates some cash, it once brought me a wedding that
> led to a nice sum so I've learned you never know where the music will go or
> what it will lead to.  In the end I know personally I must perform the music
> that I've been given or allowed to realize as it's a gift, regardless
> whether I make income or have to pay my way to go do it. I've made some
> judgement calls over time meaning yes there are times it makes sense to say
> no but in the long run I will as one of my main influences said, *'play
> guitar for anyone who will listen'*.
>
> Lastly a mentor of a few years ago often reminded me that even Charlie
> Ives had a day gig.
>
> Go play for someone today whether it puts food on your table or not...
>
> Best to all
>
> jim
> www.jimgoodinmusic.com
> www.chinapaintingmusic.com
> www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic
> www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic
> www.myspace.com/jimgoodinviolinelectro
> www.myspace.com/eastofwhere
> www.myspace.com/jimgoodinsoundscapes
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > Its power did. Used to be, you couldn't get on stage in any reputable
> > venue without a union card.
> >
> >
> >  On Apr 10, 2008, at 4:31 PM, Travis Hartnett wrote:
> >
> > The Musicians Union never went away...
> >
> > TH
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Only because we allow it. I say bring back the union.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> The Acoustic World Guitar of Jim Goodin - http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com
> MySpace (solo) - http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic
> Chinapainting -
> http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com
> Chinapainting on My Space -
> http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com
> The Jim Goodin label and home for 7 other creative souls -
> http://www.woodandwiremusic.com
> Jim Goodin uses GHS Strings - http://www.ghsstrings.com and Seagull
> Guitars - http://www.seagullguitars.com, Jim Goodin is published by Mel
> Bay Publications, Inc. - http://www.melbay.com
>
>
>


-- 
The Acoustic World Guitar of Jim Goodin - http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com
MySpace (solo) - http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic
Chinapainting -
http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com
Chinapainting on My Space -
http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com
The Jim Goodin label and home for 7 other creative souls -
http://www.woodandwiremusic.com
Jim Goodin uses GHS Strings - http://www.ghsstrings.com and Seagull Guitars
- http://www.seagullguitars.com, Jim Goodin is published by Mel Bay
Publications, Inc. - http://www.melbay.com

------=_Part_37005_26061726.1207866820047
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline

<div>Chris if it&#39;s in NY in a club it&#39;s always about if you as the =
act bring enough people, then there is a percentage at many places.&nbsp; T=
his being why sometimes a gig is for free, if the turnout is low then gener=
ally no compensation and at times no return engagement.&nbsp; It&#39;s very=
 true that in NY this is tremendous exploitation of the musician but it&#39=
;s the nature of the this world here.</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Occasionally I get a house concert which most of the time that&#39;s u=
nderstood it has a fee or atleast that the people attending will donate to =
the artist which is generally very sincere in those settings.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>As I think about this the main gigs that fall into the free and akin t=
o this thread are club or bar based atleast in my experience.&nbsp; I have =
done a series of clinics at Sam Ash stores that were product only compensat=
ion by GHS so that falls towards free atleast in what puts food on the tabl=
e however it&#39;s strings that I would normerally pay for perhaps.</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>In the end for weddings and other private affairs yes I have been paid=
 and at times very well.&nbsp; As said earlier I do persue compensation whe=
rever possible but there are times when it&#39;s been for free.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>J<br><br></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Chris Sewell &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:lunamusic@mac.com">lunamusic@mac.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word">
<div><br></div>
<div>I&#39;m curious to know, how many free gigs do you actually ask for mo=
ney? Or do you assume its free?&nbsp;=20
<div>
<div></div>
<div class=3D"Wj3C7c"><br>
<div>
<div>On Apr 10, 2008, at 5:28 PM, Jim Goodin wrote:</div><br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>all valid points here in their own right and I first wasn&#39;t going =
to comment publicly as Daryl is a good friend, co-artist and collaborator i=
n the Chinapainting duo of which we&#39;ve had some similar dialog on some =
marketing strategies for Chinapainting.&nbsp; I didn&#39;t want it felt tha=
t my opinions were not objective enough but I think I have some things to s=
hare on this thread.&nbsp; </div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>All I&#39;ve ever wanted to do in my adult years has been make a livin=
g as a musician.&nbsp; The reality in that is if you are willing to change =
your living standards sometimes then it&#39;s entirely possible.&nbsp; <a h=
ref=3D"http://www.davidwilcox.com/" target=3D"_blank">David Wilcox</a> (fin=
e guitarist/singer-songwriter) basically did that early in his career, he w=
anted to music all the time, had no real responsibilities as I recall and s=
o he lowered his needs and made it until things got better.&nbsp; </div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>My real belief and desire to put my all into music also came at the mo=
st complicated time in my life when I&nbsp;had moved to NY, married with 2 =
new children who would later be in&nbsp;private school.&nbsp; For family he=
alth care now costs me $950/mo. and if I had a car which I no longer do ins=
urance is not cheap here.&nbsp; So making income is important to me and I t=
oo have a similar day gig to Daryl&#39;s though not as fortunate to be home=
-based but salute corp America M-F in a law firm.&nbsp; Though it&#39;s not=
 so bad as I get a month off a year which is good for family vacation and s=
till leaving time&nbsp;for&nbsp;limited touring for me.&nbsp; I do work at =
and never let go of the possibility that what I may be doing may set the st=
age for&nbsp;music taking over.&nbsp; &nbsp;I have had a few things happen =
to inch that forward such as publishing with <a href=3D"http://www.melbay.c=
om/" target=3D"_blank">Mel Bay</a> that though it won&#39;t pay the rent&nb=
sp;it will&nbsp;subsidize my retirement though I never figure I&#39;ll reti=
re, my feeling is at that age I&#39;ll be on the road with music if I&#39;m=
 healthy and things go well.&nbsp; But anyhow the publishing gen&#39;s a sm=
all bit of money, I also freelance doing Finale which gen&#39;s some cash a=
nd I teach a small bit, all enough to profit/loss my music.&nbsp; </div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>In the end though as altruistic as what Chris said and has been said t=
o me many times, don&#39;t play for free and yes there is the arguement tha=
t doing it breaks down the strength of indie artists but gosh what are we s=
upposed to do, sit home and play for the wife and girlfriend and cats!&nbsp=
; Music can&#39;t be kept inside it must be played for people.&nbsp; One st=
age of mine happens every day and that is playing on the subway platform wh=
ile waiting on the train and occasionally it generates some cash, it once b=
rought me a wedding that led to&nbsp;a nice sum&nbsp;so I&#39;ve learned yo=
u never know where the music will go or what it will lead to.&nbsp; In the =
end I know personally I must perform the music that I&#39;ve been given or =
allowed to realize as it&#39;s a gift, regardless whether I make income or =
have to pay my way to go do it. I&#39;ve made some judgement calls over tim=
e meaning yes there are times it makes sense to say no but in the long run =
I will as one of my main influences said, <em>&#39;play guitar for anyone w=
ho will listen&#39;</em>.&nbsp; </div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Lastly a mentor of a few years ago often reminded me that even Charlie=
 Ives had a day gig.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Go play for someone today whether it puts food on your table or not...=
</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Best to all</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>jim</div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.jimgo=
odinmusic.com</a></div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.c=
hinapaintingmusic.com</a></div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic" target=3D"_blank=
">www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic</a></div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic" target=3D"_blank">ww=
w.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic</a></div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinviolinelectro" target=3D"_b=
lank">www.myspace.com/jimgoodinviolinelectro</a></div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/eastofwhere" target=3D"_blank">www.m=
yspace.com/eastofwhere</a></div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinsoundscapes" target=3D"_bla=
nk">www.myspace.com/jimgoodinsoundscapes</a></div>
<div><br><br>&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Chris Sewell &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:lunamusic@mac.com" target=3D"_blank">lunamusic@mac.com<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<div style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word">Its power did. Used to be, you couldn&=
#39;t get on stage in any reputable venue without a union card.=20
<div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Apr 10, 2008, at 4:31 PM, Travis Hartnett wrote:</div><br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">The Musicians Union never went away...<br><br>TH<=
br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Chris Sewell &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:lunamusic@mac.com" target=3D"_blank">lunamusic@mac.com<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0=
pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<div>Only because we allow it. I say bring back the union.&nbsp;=20
<div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div><span style=3D"TEXT-DECORATION: underline"><br></span></div><br></div>=
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div=
></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>The Acoustic Wor=
ld Guitar of Jim Goodin - <a href=3D"http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com/" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com</a><br>
MySpace (solo) - <a href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic</a><br>Chinapainting -<br=
><a href=3D"http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://ww=
w.chinapaintingmusic.com</a><br>
Chinapainting on My Space -<br><a href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/chinapaint=
ingmusic.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.c=
om</a><br>The Jim Goodin label and home for 7 other creative souls - <a hre=
f=3D"http://www.woodandwiremusic.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.woodand=
wiremusic.com</a> <br>
Jim Goodin uses GHS Strings - <a href=3D"http://www.ghsstrings.com/" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.ghsstrings.com</a> and Seagull Guitars - <a href=3D"=
http://www.seagullguitars.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.seagullguitars=
.com</a>, Jim Goodin is published by Mel Bay Publications, Inc. - <a href=
=3D"http://www.melbay.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.melbay.com</a> </b=
lockquote>
</div><br></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all">=
<br>-- <br>The Acoustic World Guitar of Jim Goodin - <a href=3D"http://www.=
jimgoodinmusic.com">http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com</a><br>MySpace (solo) - <=
a href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic">http://www.myspace.com/jim=
goodinmusic</a><br>
Chinapainting -<br><a href=3D"http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com">http://www=
.chinapaintingmusic.com</a><br>Chinapainting on My Space -<br><a href=3D"ht=
tp://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com">http://www.myspace.com/chinapa=
intingmusic.com</a><br>
The Jim Goodin label and home for 7 other creative souls - <a href=3D"http:=
//www.woodandwiremusic.com">http://www.woodandwiremusic.com</a> <br>Jim Goo=
din uses GHS Strings - <a href=3D"http://www.ghsstrings.com">http://www.ghs=
strings.com</a> and Seagull Guitars - <a href=3D"http://www.seagullguitars.=
com">http://www.seagullguitars.com</a>, Jim Goodin is published by Mel Bay =
Publications, Inc. - <a href=3D"http://www.melbay.com">http://www.melbay.co=
m</a>=20

------=_Part_37005_26061726.1207866820047--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 10 22:37:34 2008
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From: "Bob Amstadt" <bobld@amstadt.com>
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References: <20080410220228.249850@gmx.net>
Subject: Re: in-ear till my ears bleed?
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:37:31 -0700
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A limiter isn't required, but sure that you can reach your volume knob if 
you need to.

I'm currently using a nice pair of Westone earphones wired to a small 
personal monitor mixer.  I have found that this saves my hearing.  When 
playing in a band, I have complete control over the volume in my ears. 
Without the IEM, I would come home with ringing ears after getting together 
with the guys for a practice.  With the IEM, I have no hearing problems 
after playing with the band.  Also, the personal monitor mixer gives me 
control over what I get in my ears.  I can boost myself in my personal 
monitor mix allowing me to hear myself without getting into a volume war 
with the rest of the band.

I highly recommend IEMs.

Bob 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 10 22:39:39 2008
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From: "Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill" <rs@moinlabs.de>
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Subject: AW: Looping venue help
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Hi Krispen (and everyone else), 

> plays for a living. You could take it even further and say 
> that when you play for fee, but don't really need the money, 
> you are doing that same. It all depends on your political and 

This is a very dangerous line of argument. It's called communism and
socialism, and leads to dictatorship, torture, mass murder, economic
breakdown and in the final outcome, to a world where there isn't a place for
your crazy stuff (nor for your well-paying day job).

> festival.  In this case, paying for free/fee doesn't appear 
> to be a problem, because this is not the type of event or 
> music that is inherently designed to be profit generating, 

The "kind of event" approach is very important to me as a non-professional
who is not dependent on earning money from making music. I myself don't have
the slightest problem to play without getting paid if nobody else gets paid
for it directly or indirectly. While I didn't do (or asked you to explain to
me) the math for things like BEMF or Y2Kloopfestival, it's rather obvious to
me that if these events generate some actual earnings, it would be in the
range of, let's say, 20 to 30 bucks per musician. I believe this money is
better invested in a) amenities from which the musicians at the festival
benefit, b) compensation for the festival manager (we're still talking about
that kind of money where someone working his ass off for months on end may
get, if he's lucky, a few hundred dollars).

If, on the other hand, I'm asked to play at a typical profit-oriented place
(Krispen's restaurant, a club, especially the places which charge admission,
but in general those places who see a chance to increase their EBIT by
having me play), I will ask for compensation. Again, due to the fact that
I'm not dependant on that income to survive, I'm open to plans which somehow
share the risk (like 80% of the door instead of a fixed salary). 


Summarizing: I will not give away my art if somebody else gets money from
it. I am happy to give away my art if all other parties get from the deal is
my art.

	Rainer

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I appreciate all the discussion, and especially the respect we're 
managing to show (Chris, thanks for the offer to help with venues in 
spite of our differences on this - in your own market...!!!). By now 
other people have made eloquent and interesting points better than what 
I can express.

Maybe the strongest point I wish to make is that I'd never, ever go to a 
venue and undercut someone else just so I could get the gig. 
Particularly if it's a scene where payment is genuinely expected, for 
instance Krispen's example of playing a regular, traditional jazz gig in 
a restaurant. Last year I had a few restaurant gigs, and this year I'm 
going to have a few as well, and discussing payment is just part of the 
deal.

And as I mentioned, all of the experimental venues I've encountered so 
far do charge a cover and deliver the bulk of that to the musicians, 
unless it's a festival where it's understood that the costs are above 
and beyond what a cover could bring in.

But there are coffeeshops and small informal venues that never pay 
anyone except tips/contributions, if that, and I'm okay with playing 
there, it doesn't bother me a bit. On the other end of things, I've just 
booked a show in a nightclub in LA, where they charge a $6 cover of 
which I'll split half with my co-performer, but only if we bring 50 
people (which we likely won't). I booked the show anyway, but I do like 
Rainer's point that if someone else is making money off the music, then 
the musician should deserve a piece of it.

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com



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<body STYLE=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><p><strong>LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY'S =
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<p>The Waverly Hills Sanatorium was a place for people to go to die. It =
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When those tones are slowed down, it becomes a woman's voice saying "your =
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supposed to be here." This famous EVP captured during this broadcast was=20
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however doors continued to close on their own, and in one case even =
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<p>&nbsp;</p>
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<p>To unsubscribe:</p>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 00:40:26 2008
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From: Paul Richards <paulrichard_rocks@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT: compensation (WAS Re: Looping venue help)
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(I also think that no matter what occupation you are involved in, it is 
important to value yourself.  If you give something away for free,
 people tend to treat you and your work as worthless.)

Amen, brother. I work in the IT industry as a technical support/systems engineer on HP NonStop systems. I've seen the value of off-hours/after hours/weekend work become devalued so much that employers think they are entitled to "non-stop" support from technical staff 24x7 (with, of course, no O.T pay) .
   
  And that's the problem. It's essentially free work that's being done. As you said, no one values free services. But, oh, I forgot...we're "considered "management". Right........
   
  Pablo

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<div>(I also think that no matter what occupation you are involved in, it is <BR>important to value yourself.&nbsp; If you give something away for free,<BR> people tend to treat you and your work as worthless.)<BR><BR>Amen, brother. I work in the IT industry as a technical support/systems engineer on HP NonStop systems. I've seen the value of off-hours/after hours/weekend work become devalued so much that employers think they are entitled to "non-stop" support from technical staff 24x7 (with, of course, no O.T pay) .</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>And that's the problem. It's essentially free work that's being done. As you said, no one values free services.&nbsp;But, oh, I forgot...we're "considered "management". Right........</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>Pablo</div><p>&#32;__________________________________________________<br>Do You Yahoo!?<br>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around <br>http://mail.yahoo.com 
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 02:42:13 2008
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From: "Rick Walker" <looppool@cruzio.com>
To: "LOOPERS DELIGHT \(posting\)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: Looping venue help
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     Chris Sewell wrote:
" Never play for free."

    Per Boysen wrote:
"I'm with Chris. Playing for free only hurts good music in the long
run. Why shouldn't a good musician's work be valued just as highly as
a good carpenter's work?"

*******************
I've been a professional musician for thirty years now.  I haven't had a 
single 'day' job
in all that time (I've lived off of quesadillas and top ramen and I've made 
a lot of money
doing studio work, touring, gigging, teaching, producing, publishing, etc., 
etc.)

There are genres of music that still make it possible for one to make a 
living as a professional musician.
In Northern California, where I live,  even tried and true avenues of 
musical commerce (weddings, private parties,
rich hotels, conventions) have dwindled at an astonishing and depressing 
rate in the past five years
and radically in the last three years.

In the town where I live,  Santa Cruz,   there are NO gigs that one can take 
to make a living.
typical rock clubs and blues bars which paid $300 to a four piece outfit in 
1967 now
pay nothing or a handful of dollars from the 'door' at gigs.    Jazz gigs 
that used to pay a measly
$50 a person have dropped to $20 a person and , just recently, that has 
proved unviable for the
club owners so non-weekend gigs pay a meal and tips.

Time's are really dire financially here.   People won't even make any kind 
of substantial donations
at gigs where there isn't an official cover charge.

When the amazing Norwegian avante garde guitarist Tellef Ogrim came here I 
had to tell him
that I couldn't get him a paying gig at all.     We played for free at a 
small music store here
to a dozen people.     I felt ashamed but this is the world we live in now 
and from everything I can
tell  it's going to get worse before it gets better.

*********************
A lot of these changes coincided with my realization around the turn of the 
millineum in my own life that
having been a professional musician all of my adult life (and militantly not 
even leaving my door
for less than a $200 gig even if it was next door as a point of professional 
pride)  that I had
eschewed many, many really creative avenues for making music.

I realized that I had become a musician because of the way it made me feel; 
because it was like magic to me; because it was
an exciting world of mysterious creativity and that , over time,  I had been 
involved, less and less with the source of creativity.

I also began to truly hate the business of music (at least as it is 
practised in California).    None of the people I knew who were on
major or major independent music labels ever made any money.    Producers, 
Record Store clerks,  Bouncers, Lawyers, A&R people,
Engineers...............everyone got paid before the musician 
did..............and yet all of their jobs resulted from the creativity of
musicians.

I resolved that for the rest of my life that I would attempt to be a pure 
artist..............truly (but NOT naively) creating new music
for the sake of it.................not necessarily for money.

I got a computer and a printer and started to produce my own music, 
manufacture it and even do the artwork and website myself.

Initially,  I was astonished that I made as much money as when I was playing 
the kinds of weddings and corporate gigs that seemed
so soul-killing (only to me...........I have no problem with anyone making 
their living in this manner...........it's just not good for me too
much anymore).

In the last 3 years however,  people have started to not buy CDs at gigs 
anymore.       My CD income dwindled from $7,000
in 2001 to a depressing couple of hundred dollars a year last year.

All studio work completely ceased about four or five years ago.   Most of 
the successful artists I backed in the 80's and 90's
on tour are now doing solo tours (or at the most duet tours with musicians 
in the countries they travel to) and many of them
have left the road and/or the music business entirely.   Some of these were 
really successful financially in the 90's

However,  I pulled back and relied more on teaching which , though it has 
noticeable declined in this economy (which seems to be
sinking rather rapidly where we live--California,  the world's 10th largest 
economy if it were a country, is now officially considered to
be in a deep recession) .

And an amazing thing happened.    My music progressed more rapidly than 
ever...........my output as an artist rose
heavily.   Opportunity's to do lots of things including travelling and being 
in magazines' radically expanded and
I have to say  that I"m the happiest I"ve ever been in my life.

******
I"m not saying this should be everyone's path,   but when there are no 
paying gigs, Per and Chris,   do we stop being artists?
Do we stop playing to the people?

I say,  get paid and get paid handsomely!!!!

My father , an accomplished and respected physician once told me that I knew 
more about my subject (music) than he did about his,  (medicine)
(one of the great compliments of my life because I had tremendous respect 
for him)  so I  do believe we live
in a screwy world where we seem to be valued less than a Doctor or a 
Carpenter for our work.

But what is,  IS!!!!!

Thankfully,  Scandinavia seems way better (especially Sweden from what I can 
tell) in supporting their artistry than the US (whose combined arts budget 
was less than
the combined arts budget of the city of Berlin ten years ago).    And I"m 
thankful and grateful, that I'm going to actually get support to play there.

Here in California, however, I've had to go to private companies and 
individuals' to get funding to bring people to the Y2K Festivals
because the festival just make enough money to pay anyone really.

So,  I say,   take this thread on a case by case basis.

Jazz musicians playing for free aren't taking away paid gigs because there 
AREN'T any paid gigs anymore.
If they don't play for free, there will be no Jazz in our area except for 
people who travel from other places who are famous to play KUUMBWA.

I support everyone to get paid, but I'll be playing half of my tour in 
Europe and the British Isles this summer for free...............just because
I want to spread the creative word and celebrate life and community in that 
way.

Respectfully,  Rick Walker


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At 1:31 PM -0700 4/10/08, Travis Hartnett wrote:
>The Musicians Union never went away...

I'm a member.  Local 1000 is the traveling musicians' local - lots of 
folkies belong.



-- 

David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730
Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
Web site: http://www.dgans.com

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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 20:12:19 -0700
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So, you ever play for free?

On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 7:55 PM, David Gans <david@trufun.com> wrote:

> At 1:31 PM -0700 4/10/08, Travis Hartnett wrote:
>
> > The Musicians Union never went away...
> >
>
> I'm a member.  Local 1000 is the traveling musicians' local - lots of
> folkies belong.
>
>
>
>

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So, you ever play for free?<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 7:55 PM, David Gans &lt;<a href="mailto:david@trufun.com">david@trufun.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="Ih2E3d">At 1:31 PM -0700 4/10/08, Travis Hartnett wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
The Musicians Union never went away...<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
I&#39;m a member. &nbsp;Local 1000 is the traveling musicians&#39; local - lots of folkies belong.<br><font color="#888888">
<br>
<br>
<br></font></blockquote></div><br>

------=_Part_29659_18116197.1207883539597--

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Just when I thought the list had expired... the spectre of filthy lucre rears it's lovely head and the question of where anyone still performs music for people live in your town is put forth by someone who apparently doesn't have a gun to his fiscal head. Givin it away for free will always get you beat up by the local workin girls especially if you're not from around here and that's not your corner. But then again my guitar instructor used to say "Musicians are thieves and whores, but they're forgiven" one of my favorite quotes from Mr.Fripp, but what would he know about this kinda stuff....that he would tell you for free..........

                                                                           bryan helm

--
Music and Mosaics 
bryanhelm.wordpress.com
at-the-helm.us
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<html><body>
<DIV>Just when&nbsp;I thought the list had expired... the spectre of filthy lucre rears it's lovely head and the question of where anyone still performs music for&nbsp;people&nbsp;live in your town&nbsp;is put forth by someone who apparently doesn't have a gun to his fiscal head. Givin it away for free will always get you beat up by the local workin girls especially if you're not from around here and that's not your corner. But then again my guitar instructor used to say "Musicians are thieves and whores, but they're forgiven"&nbsp;one of my favorite quotes from Mr.Fripp, but&nbsp;what would he know about this kinda stuff....that he would tell you for free..........</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; bryan helm</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>Music and Mosaics <BR>bryanhelm.wordpress.com</DIV>
<DIV class=signature>at-the-helm.us</DIV></body></html>

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----- Original Message ----- 

> Hi Krispen (and everyone else),
>
>> plays for a living. You could take it even further and say
>> that when you play for fee, but don't really need the money,
>> you are doing that same. It all depends on your political and
>
> This is a very dangerous line of argument. It's called communism and
> socialism, and leads to dictatorship, torture, mass murder, economic
> breakdown and in the final outcome, to a world where there isn't a place 
> for
> your crazy stuff (nor for your well-paying day job).

What's wrong with those things? Just kidding. :)  Yes, I wasn't advocating 
the viewpoint, just calling it out as a possible line of thought.  I hope 
freedom of thought and expression is acceptable on the list. There are many 
flavors of fascism...intellectual being one of them. A line of argument and 
idea is one thing (sacred, imo) and should be allowed to stand. Action is 
quite another animal.

>> festival.  In this case, paying for free/fee doesn't appear
>> to be a problem, because this is not the type of event or
>> music that is inherently designed to be profit generating,
>
> The "kind of event" approach is very important to me as a non-professional
> who is not dependent on earning money from making music. I myself don't 
> have
> the slightest problem to play without getting paid if nobody else gets 
> paid
> for it directly or indirectly. While I didn't do (or asked you to explain 
> to
> me) the math for things like BEMF or Y2Kloopfestival, it's rather obvious 
> to
> me that if these events generate some actual earnings, it would be in the
> range of, let's say, 20 to 30 bucks per musician. I believe this money is
> better invested in a) amenities from which the musicians at the festival
> benefit, b) compensation for the festival manager (we're still talking 
> about
> that kind of money where someone working his ass off for months on end may
> get, if he's lucky, a few hundred dollars).

Good points. Though I still refuse to be compensated financially for my 
efforts. My compensation and reward is the event iteself and hanging out 
with all of you.

> Summarizing: I will not give away my art if somebody else gets money from
> it. I am happy to give away my art if all other parties get from the deal 
> is
> my art.
>
> Rainer

It's not a bad principle to follow, Rainer. I tend to agree.

Kris

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Got news today Mike Battle died (inventor of the  echoplex)

_http://www.tubeplex.com/mikebattle.html_ 
(http://www.tubeplex.com/mikebattle.html) 


R.I.P  MIKE


_http://www.loopersdelight.com/musing...ke_Battle.html_ 
(http://www.loopersdelight.com/musing...ke_Battle.html) 




**************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.    
  (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16640" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:=20=
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<DIV>
<DIV id=3Dpost_message_3963554>Got news today Mike Battle died (inventor of=20=
the=20
echoplex)<BR><BR><A href=3D"http://www.tubeplex.com/mikebattle.html"=20
target=3D_blank>http://www.tubeplex.com/mikebattle.html</A><BR><BR><BR>R.I.P=
=20
MIKE<IMG class=3Dinlineimg title=3DFrown alt=3D""=20
src=3D"http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/smilies/frown.gif"=20
border=3D0><BR><BR><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.loopersdelight.com/musing...ke_Battle.html"=20
target=3D_blank>http://www.loopersdelight.com/musing...ke_Battle.html</A><!-=
- controls --></DIV></DIV></FONT><BR><BR><BR><DIV><FONT style=3D"color: blac=
k; font: normal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;"><HR style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 10px">Plann=
ing your summer road trip? Check out <A title=3D"http://travel.aol.com/trave=
l-guide/united-states?ncid=3Daoltrv00030000000016" href=3D"http://travel.aol=
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k">AOL Travel Guides</A>.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

-------------------------------1207888968--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 06:32:06 2008
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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 02:28:33 -0400
From: Bill Fox <billyfox@soundscapes.us>
Subject: Galactic Travels Playlist #575 for April 10, 2008
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http://wdiy.org/programs/gt/playlists/2008/080410.html

Galactic Travels is an electronic, ambient, and space music show, that
airs each Thursday at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem,
PA, 93.9 FM in Easton, PA and Phillipsburg, NJ, 93.7 FM in Fogelsville
and Trexlertown, and webcasting on the internet.  WDIY also broadcasts
in Digital HD at 88.1 FM.

                Show #575                April 10, 2008

RECAP:
On this show, I continued the month-long focus on Create.  The Featured
CD at Midnight was "Reflections from the Inner Light" on Groove
Unlimited Records.

Create: http://wdiy.org/programs/gt/playlists/2008/focus.html#apr


PLAYLIST:

11:04 pm
ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
Kevin Braheny        Starflight 1 *       Galaxies (Hearts of Space)
Arcane               Slaska Escape        Pulse (none)
Adrian Besley        The Great Hall       Powerhouse (none)
Craig Padilla        Currents             Below the Mountain
                                            (Spotted Peccary)
Craig Padilla        Woven Planet         Below the Mountain
                                            (Spotted Peccary)
VA [Xan Alexander]   Storm Forge          Awakenings 2007 Vol. 1: New
                                            Worlds (AmbientLive)
Create               Narissa              Reflections from the Inner
                                            Light (Groove)
Create               Dark Skies           RftIL (Groove)

12:00 am
ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
Create               Touching the Void    RftIL (Groove)
Create               Medusa               RftIL (Groove)
Create               Surface Control      RftIL (Groove)
Create               Downside Up          RftIL (Groove)
Create               Kaleid               RftIL (Groove)
Create               Chasing the One      RftIL (Groove)

1:00 am

 * = excerpt
VA = Various Artists (compilation)
++ = Advance CDR from Artist
-- = Background music under interview


NEXT SHOW:
On the next Galactic Travels, I'll continue the month-long focus on
Create.  The Featured CD at Midnight will be "From Earth to Mars" on
Groove Unlimited Records.

Bill
=======================================================================
Host of Galactic Travels, an electronic, ambient, and space music
show, Thursdays at 11:04 pm EDT (GMT-4:00) on WDIY 88.1 FM in Allentown
and Bethlehem, 93.9 FM in Easton and Phillipsburg, and on 93.7 FM in
Trexlertown and Fogelsville.  WDIY also broadcasts in HD Digital Radio
on 88.1 FM.
Galactic Travels web site: http://galactictravels.info
MySpace: http://myspace.com/galactictravels
RSS News Feed: http://wdiy.org/programs/gt/rss/enews.xml
Podcasts: http://wdiy.org/programs/gt/rss/gt.xml
Listen on-line to WDIY at http://wdiy.org and click on the LISTEN link
or go directly to: http://rm1.refugemedia.com/ramgen/encoder/wdiy.rm
To subscribe to the galactic-travels mailing list, click on [Join This
Group!] at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/galactic-travels
Playlists are also published at http://billfox.blogspot.com
RSS (2.0) feed from http://billfox.blogspot.com/rss.xml
Atom (0.3) feed from http://billfox.blogspot.com/atom.xml

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 06:40:59 2008
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Rick Walker schrieb:
> How many loops do us use simultaneously?

In my Max/MSP patch I have 8 loops (up to 90 seconds), and a tap delay 
with 8 taps and feedback for each tap (also up to 90 seconds).
I use all of them, and I guess If I had 16 taps and 16 loops I'd also 
eat them up. It's more a question of control. I control my taps and 
loops with a fader box. It has only 8 faders, assigned to my taps, and 
four rows of pots which are assigned to feedbacks, reverb sends and loop 
levels.
But in my music I don't layer things in the way most loopers do (a 
guess...;-). I keep a memory of stuff which I heard. I can fly it in at 
any point. I don't care too much about rhythms and exact alignment, 
though I could synchronize the material if I want to...

> And why?

Strangely enough this question has never bitten me, and nobody ever 
asked after listening to my music... ;-)

Stefan

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|\-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 06:53:30 2008
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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 23:53:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: empress super delay videos are up now
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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dont know but you can write him directly he seems to
be a really nice guy
i bought the empress tremolo and it sounds killer,now
i realize how bad the boss sounds!
cheers
Luis


--- Teddy Kumpel <teddybut@mac.com> wrote:

> pretty cool... except he doesn't explain the
> expression pedal... does  
> it do what the line 6 does with the "heel set, toe
> set then morph"  
> thing that is soooo cool?
> why don't all pedals do that anyway... that is
> genius of Line 6.
> 
> teddy
> 
> On Apr 9, 2008, at 7:50 PM, L.A. Angulo wrote:
> > very nice and versatile for such a small and
> compact
> > unit,its also true bypass(seems to sound really
> nice)
> > and seems to have smarter features than the dl4
> > check out the well explained videos
> >
> http://www.empresseffects.com/superdelay.php#videos
> > cheers
> > Luis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


www.myspace.com/luisangulocom

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 07:04:16 2008
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References: <013401c89188$5c859fe0$6701a8c0@dayglogreen> <005401c8920a$b5abc2c0$6601a8c0@americas.hpqcorp.net> <00d301c8920d$db844cd0$6601a8c0@americas.hpqcorp.net> <EDCB4708-235D-4135-9E65-8EC4E3EAE613@midway.uchicago.edu> <00ed01c8920f$ba8aea50$6601a8c0@americas.hpqcorp.net>
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Krispen Hartung schrieb:
> I'll reach college when I am 80.

How come that most masterpieces are done at youngsters age?...
Never underrate the power of a fresh, untrained spirit, its in most 
cases closer to mastery than a pocket full of skills. Of course if you 
master to stay fresh and innocent and combine this with your collection 
of skills, it might turn out more master pieces than most masters 
usually create...

Or in short: mastery is never about skills, though skills might come in 
handy...

Don't wait till you are 80... (I know you don't...;-)

Stefan
(who always wanted to avoid virtuosity and terribly failed...)

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|\-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 07:11:54 2008
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From: "Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill" <rs@moinlabs.de>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: AW: HOW MANY LOOPS DO YOU USE SIMLUTANEOUSLY?
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 09:11:55 +0200
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> How come that most masterpieces are done at youngsters age?...

You mean like Beethoven's op 110 or 111 piano sonatas, or Bach's "Die Kunst
der Fuge"?
Most masterworks are done at a younger age iff what you do relies more on
pure brainpower and to a lesser degree on a fresh spirit than on anything
else. Most people who hold a nobel prize in physics did the respective work
at a quite young age.

I believe for an artist, experience and wisdom (not necessarily skill!) is
more important than pure brainpower. That's why forementioned op. 110 and
Die Kunst der Fuge stand out so much.

	Rainer

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 07:18:53 2008
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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 00:15:54 -0700
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: David Gans <david@trufun.com>
Subject: Re: Looping venue help
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At 8:12 PM -0700 4/10/08, Travis Hartnett wrote:
>So, you ever play for free?

Yes, I do.

Sometimes I play for tips and the opportunity to sell CDs.  Sometimes 
I play for the door, or a portion of the door.  Sometimes I get paid 
a flat fee.  Sometimes I get pay, meals, and a hotel room.



-- 

David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730
Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
Web site: http://www.dgans.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 07:23:16 2008
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From: Matt Stevens <mattstevensguitar@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Looping venue help
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 08:23:08 +0100
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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I play for free at the moment and to sell CDs but am looking to  
change that soon

I look at gigs as an opportunity to make a short film, write a blog,  
make a podcast and get my name about

MS
www.mattstevensguitar.com
On 11 Apr 2008, at 08:15, David Gans wrote:

> At 8:12 PM -0700 4/10/08, Travis Hartnett wrote:
>> So, you ever play for free?
>
> Yes, I do.
>
> Sometimes I play for tips and the opportunity to sell CDs.   
> Sometimes I play for the door, or a portion of the door.  Sometimes  
> I get paid a flat fee.  Sometimes I get pay, meals, and a hotel room.
>
>
>
> -- 
>
> David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
> Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730
> Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
> Web site: http://www.dgans.com
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 07:27:21 2008
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Sean Mormelo schrieb:
>   oh shit here we go with this again.....Yes i'm saying it..DJ's are 
> sound artists but a Musician as such entails playing a musical 
> instrument. That is the difference. Many DJ's are MUCH more artistic 
> then many musicians. :)

What do you think about people who believe only guitars are musical 
instruments? (and then just imagine you play trombone or kalimba or 
conduct an orchestra or play turntables or play a studio...)

The result defines what is music, not the tool, and that is pretty 
subjective...

My definitions, which I believe are easier to agree on:

A musician is someone who creates music...

Someone who plays an instrument is called an instrumentalist, but 
normally she's called after the instrument she is playing, cellist, 
guitarist, looper, etc...

Someone who plays turntables is called DJ, as turntableist is a bit long...

All of the above are sound artists...

Stefan

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 07:35:32 2008
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doc rossi schrieb:
> Are there any loopers living in or near Lyon, France?  Or any visiting?

I will soon be moving (with the CCMIX) to La Tourette, which is close to 
Lyon. Keep me posted, I'll keep you posted...

Stefan

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Chris Sewell wrote:
> I don't want this to get out of hand, but it's something I feel very 
> strongly about. When you play for free, you take a gig away from a 
> musician that is trying to make a living.

Good point.
Always ask the going rate in any situation.
(last gig I did, I got paid)

...but not always the case that playing for free is unhelpful.

If you're promoting a music which is unfamiliar to the potential audience.
If you're encouraging a new venue.
If you're trying to build some kind of scene in the town where you live.


Essentially, if you're getting paid to play a particular style of music,
then it's quite possible you're cashing in on the hard work, for little or no
money, that was done by the pioneers of that music.
 
> Nice quote from Ol' Don. But if you notice, he's saying he didn't 
> actually give it away. It's a nice sentiment, but sentiment don't pay 
> the rent. I'm sure Mr. Vliet understood that.

Yep, and he made his best money from painting, not music.
...and he had his "sell out" phase.

Let's also remember the time Ornette Coleman once charged $10,000
to record a sax solo.



> But hey, do what you gotta do. If you are ever in New Haven, look me up, 
> I'm sure I can find something for you.

:-)

> Chris


Per says
>> I'm with Chris. Playing for free only hurts good music in the long
>> run. Why shouldn't a good musician's work be valued just as highly as
>> a good carpenter's work?

Thought provoking question.
Depends on your notion of "value".

Here's another one.
"Why would artists believe that the universe owes them a living?" 

andy


> 
> 
> On Apr 10, 2008, at 4:13 PM, Per Boysen wrote:
> 
>>>  Chris Sewell wrote:
>>>
>>>> Never play for free.
>>>>
>>>
>>>  "I don't want to sell my music.
>>>  I'd like to give it away because where I got it, you didn't have to 
>>> pay for
>>> it."
>>>  ...Don Van Vliet, 1970
>>
>>

>>
> 
> 

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Bob Amstadt schrieb:
> The answer is of course, 1 more than your looper will allow.

I tend to want it doubled, only because I can't imagine more with my 
current limitation... ;-)

But I must admit, I do love limitations a lot. It really helps to keep 
things straight...

Stefan

-- 
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Subject: Re: compensation (WAS Re: Looping venue help)
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Well put Daryl!!
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Daryl Shawn=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 11:43 AM
  Subject: OT: compensation (WAS Re: Looping venue help)


  ah..I detect a storm brewing...do I seed the clouds...?

  I respect the well-established school of thought behind valuing work=20
  monetarily. It can be nice to get money after a show, but it simply=20
  doesn't matter to me. I've had a telecommuting day job for seven years =

  that pays enough and is extremely flexible, allowing me to do things=20
  like this tour while still making some cash by logging on late at =
night.=20
  My perspective is, that's what I do for money. Music, I do for itself=20
  and whether I gain or lose money in the process is irrelevant. I don't =

  need a second job and if I did, I'd find something where payment was=20
  guaranteed and had a direct relation to the time I put into it, which=20
  sure as hell isn't the case in any sort of art.

  Certainly part of the argument against playing for free runs that it=20
  devalues the market for everyone else who may NEED to be paid. Maybe =
so,=20
  but the commercial music industry and lack of government arts funding=20
  deserve much more blame for their lack of support, and further, anyone =

  who needs to be paid for their music has to know that they're going =
out=20
  on a highly arbitrary limb in relation to their survival. Even more so =

  if they're playing unusual stuff.

  I know for a fact that these coffeeshops that somehow survive charging =

  $1.75 for their brown water don't have the cash to front for my =
unknown=20
  ass to sit in a corner and do what I love. I'd rather be playing than=20
  anything else, so I provide them some atmosphere and get a world of=20
  enjoyment in return, $20 or no $20.

  As a side note, every experimental/arts venue I've played at or talked =

  to so far has, actually, made a point of charging a cover and then=20
  giving the bulk (if not all) the door to the musicians.

  Daryl Shawn
  www.swanwelder.com
  www.chinapaintingmusic.com
  > Never play for free.


------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C89B7B.782EE100
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16608" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DGeorgia color=3D#000080>Well put=20
Daryl!!</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000080 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dhighhorse@mhorse.com =
href=3D"mailto:highhorse@mhorse.com">Daryl=20
  Shawn</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 10, 2008 =
11:43=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> OT: compensation (WAS =
Re:=20
  Looping venue help)</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>ah..I detect a storm brewing...do I seed the=20
  clouds...?<BR><BR>I respect the well-established school of thought =
behind=20
  valuing work <BR>monetarily. It can be nice to get money after a show, =
but it=20
  simply <BR>doesn't matter to me. I've had a telecommuting day job for =
seven=20
  years <BR>that pays enough and is extremely flexible, allowing me to =
do things=20
  <BR>like this tour while still making some cash by logging on late at =
night.=20
  <BR>My perspective is, that's what I do for money. Music, I do for =
itself=20
  <BR>and whether I gain or lose money in the process is irrelevant. I =
don't=20
  <BR>need a second job and if I did, I'd find something where payment =
was=20
  <BR>guaranteed and had a direct relation to the time I put into it, =
which=20
  <BR>sure as hell isn't the case in any sort of art.<BR><BR>Certainly =
part of=20
  the argument against playing for free runs that it <BR>devalues the =
market for=20
  everyone else who may NEED to be paid. Maybe so, <BR>but the =
commercial music=20
  industry and lack of government arts funding <BR>deserve much more =
blame for=20
  their lack of support, and further, anyone <BR>who needs to be paid =
for their=20
  music has to know that they're going out <BR>on a highly arbitrary =
limb in=20
  relation to their survival. Even more so <BR>if they're playing =
unusual=20
  stuff.<BR><BR>I know for a fact that these coffeeshops that somehow =
survive=20
  charging <BR>$1.75 for their brown water don't have the cash to front =
for my=20
  unknown <BR>ass to sit in a corner and do what I love. I'd rather be =
playing=20
  than <BR>anything else, so I provide them some atmosphere and get a =
world of=20
  <BR>enjoyment in return, $20 or no $20.<BR><BR>As a side note, every=20
  experimental/arts venue I've played at or talked <BR>to so far has, =
actually,=20
  made a point of charging a cover and then <BR>giving the bulk (if not =
all) the=20
  door to the musicians.<BR><BR>Daryl Shawn<BR><A=20
  href=3D"http://www.swanwelder.com">www.swanwelder.com</A><BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com">www.chinapaintingmusic.com</A>=
<BR>&gt;=20
  Never play for free.<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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References: <47FE3EE1.8070504@mhorse.com> <B4F56DD1-352F-4EBB-9F13-0DDD25B68737@mac.com> <47FE6821.4060703@tiscali.co.uk> <66f9cc1e0804101313v891f799jc4a464265b519b08@mail.gmail.com> <d1396fc00804101323w388098a1mc537a971b7189d66@mail.gmail.com> <2890E9F1-0CF4-46AB-93B9-08752202EDB6@mac.com> <d1396fc00804101331l2d555f43x483c1c89f84d822e@mail.gmail.com> <1E28F6E3-A2B4-4F55-A2BB-5B6E91362B34@mac.com> <9e0440a60804101428g3e4ec733mc379a95b3e3847c5@mail.gmail.com> <9AB4491D-2F31-4F97-A490-3113D4874AF2@mac.com>
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Unsubscribe
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Chris Sewell=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 3:42 PM
  Subject: Re: Looping venue help




  I'm curious to know, how many free gigs do you actually ask for money? =
Or do you assume its free?=20

  On Apr 10, 2008, at 5:28 PM, Jim Goodin wrote:


    all valid points here in their own right and I first wasn't going to =
comment publicly as Daryl is a good friend, co-artist and collaborator =
in the Chinapainting duo of which we've had some similar dialog on some =
marketing strategies for Chinapainting.  I didn't want it felt that my =
opinions were not objective enough but I think I have some things to =
share on this thread. =20

    All I've ever wanted to do in my adult years has been make a living =
as a musician.  The reality in that is if you are willing to change your =
living standards sometimes then it's entirely possible.  David Wilcox =
(fine guitarist/singer-songwriter) basically did that early in his =
career, he wanted to music all the time, had no real responsibilities as =
I recall and so he lowered his needs and made it until things got =
better. =20

    My real belief and desire to put my all into music also came at the =
most complicated time in my life when I had moved to NY, married with 2 =
new children who would later be in private school.  For family health =
care now costs me $950/mo. and if I had a car which I no longer do =
insurance is not cheap here.  So making income is important to me and I =
too have a similar day gig to Daryl's though not as fortunate to be =
home-based but salute corp America M-F in a law firm.  Though it's not =
so bad as I get a month off a year which is good for family vacation and =
still leaving time for limited touring for me.  I do work at and never =
let go of the possibility that what I may be doing may set the stage for =
music taking over.   I have had a few things happen to inch that forward =
such as publishing with Mel Bay that though it won't pay the rent it =
will subsidize my retirement though I never figure I'll retire, my =
feeling is at that age I'll be on the road with music if I'm healthy and =
things go well.  But anyhow the publishing gen's a small bit of money, I =
also freelance doing Finale which gen's some cash and I teach a small =
bit, all enough to profit/loss my music. =20

    In the end though as altruistic as what Chris said and has been said =
to me many times, don't play for free and yes there is the arguement =
that doing it breaks down the strength of indie artists but gosh what =
are we supposed to do, sit home and play for the wife and girlfriend and =
cats!  Music can't be kept inside it must be played for people.  One =
stage of mine happens every day and that is playing on the subway =
platform while waiting on the train and occasionally it generates some =
cash, it once brought me a wedding that led to a nice sum so I've =
learned you never know where the music will go or what it will lead to.  =
In the end I know personally I must perform the music that I've been =
given or allowed to realize as it's a gift, regardless whether I make =
income or have to pay my way to go do it. I've made some judgement calls =
over time meaning yes there are times it makes sense to say no but in =
the long run I will as one of my main influences said, 'play guitar for =
anyone who will listen'. =20

    Lastly a mentor of a few years ago often reminded me that even =
Charlie Ives had a day gig.

    Go play for someone today whether it puts food on your table or =
not...

    Best to all

    jim
    www.jimgoodinmusic.com
    www.chinapaintingmusic.com
    www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic
    www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic
    www.myspace.com/jimgoodinviolinelectro
    www.myspace.com/eastofwhere
    www.myspace.com/jimgoodinsoundscapes


    =20
    On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com> =
wrote:

      Its power did. Used to be, you couldn't get on stage in any =
reputable venue without a union card.=20




      On Apr 10, 2008, at 4:31 PM, Travis Hartnett wrote:


        The Musicians Union never went away...

        TH


        On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Chris Sewell =
<lunamusic@mac.com> wrote:

          Only because we allow it. I say bring back the union. =20











    --=20
    The Acoustic World Guitar of Jim Goodin - =
http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com
    MySpace (solo) - http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic
    Chinapainting -
    http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com
    Chinapainting on My Space -
    http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com
    The Jim Goodin label and home for 7 other creative souls - =
http://www.woodandwiremusic.com=20
    Jim Goodin uses GHS Strings - http://www.ghsstrings.com and Seagull =
Guitars - http://www.seagullguitars.com, Jim Goodin is published by Mel =
Bay Publications, Inc. - http://www.melbay.com=20


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16608" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY=20
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"=20
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DGeorgia =
color=3D#000080>Unsubscribe</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000080 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dlunamusic@mac.com href=3D"mailto:lunamusic@mac.com">Chris =
Sewell</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 10, 2008 =
3:42=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Looping venue =
help</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>I'm curious to know, how many free gigs do you actually ask for =
money? Or=20
  do you assume its free?&nbsp;<BR>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>On Apr 10, 2008, at 5:28 PM, Jim Goodin wrote:</DIV><BR=20
  class=3DApple-interchange-newline>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <DIV>all valid points here in their own right and I first wasn't =
going to=20
    comment publicly as Daryl is a good friend, co-artist and =
collaborator in=20
    the Chinapainting duo of which we've had some similar dialog on some =

    marketing strategies for Chinapainting.&nbsp; I didn't want it felt =
that my=20
    opinions were not objective enough but I think I have some things to =
share=20
    on this thread.&nbsp; </DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>All I've ever wanted to do in my adult years has been make a =
living as=20
    a musician.&nbsp; The reality in that is if you are willing to =
change your=20
    living standards sometimes then it's entirely possible.&nbsp; <A=20
    href=3D"http://www.davidwilcox.com/">David Wilcox</A> (fine=20
    guitarist/singer-songwriter) basically did that early in his career, =
he=20
    wanted to music all the time, had no real responsibilities as I =
recall and=20
    so he lowered his needs and made it until things got better.&nbsp; =
</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>My real belief and desire to put my all into music also came at =
the=20
    most complicated time in my life when I&nbsp;had moved to NY, =
married with 2=20
    new children who would later be in&nbsp;private school.&nbsp; For =
family=20
    health care now costs me $950/mo. and if I had a car which I no =
longer do=20
    insurance is not cheap here.&nbsp; So making income is important to =
me and I=20
    too have a similar day gig to Daryl's though not as fortunate to be=20
    home-based but salute corp America M-F in a law firm.&nbsp; Though =
it's not=20
    so bad as I get a month off a year which is good for family vacation =
and=20
    still leaving time&nbsp;for&nbsp;limited touring for me.&nbsp; I do =
work at=20
    and never let go of the possibility that what I may be doing may set =
the=20
    stage for&nbsp;music taking over.&nbsp; &nbsp;I have had a few =
things happen=20
    to inch that forward such as publishing with <A=20
    href=3D"http://www.melbay.com/">Mel Bay</A> that though it won't pay =
the=20
    rent&nbsp;it will&nbsp;subsidize my retirement though I never figure =
I'll=20
    retire, my feeling is at that age I'll be on the road with music if =
I'm=20
    healthy and things go well.&nbsp; But anyhow the publishing gen's a =
small=20
    bit of money, I also freelance doing Finale which gen's some cash =
and I=20
    teach a small bit, all enough to profit/loss my music.&nbsp; </DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>In the end though as altruistic as what Chris said and has been =
said to=20
    me many times, don't play for free and yes there is the arguement =
that doing=20
    it breaks down the strength of indie artists but gosh what are we =
supposed=20
    to do, sit home and play for the wife and girlfriend and cats!&nbsp; =
Music=20
    can't be kept inside it must be played for people.&nbsp; One stage =
of mine=20
    happens every day and that is playing on the subway platform while =
waiting=20
    on the train and occasionally it generates some cash, it once =
brought me a=20
    wedding that led to&nbsp;a nice sum&nbsp;so I've learned you never =
know=20
    where the music will go or what it will lead to.&nbsp; In the end I =
know=20
    personally I must perform the music that I've been given or allowed =
to=20
    realize as it's a gift, regardless whether I make income or have to =
pay my=20
    way to go do it. I've made some judgement calls over time meaning =
yes there=20
    are times it makes sense to say no but in the long run I will as one =
of my=20
    main influences said, <EM>'play guitar for anyone who will=20
    listen'</EM>.&nbsp; </DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>Lastly a mentor of a few years ago often reminded me that even =
Charlie=20
    Ives had a day gig.</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>Go play for someone today whether it puts food on your table or =

    not...</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>Best to all</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV>jim</DIV>
    <DIV><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com/">www.jimgoodinmusic.com</A></DIV>
    <DIV><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com/">www.chinapaintingmusic.com</A=
></DIV>
    <DIV><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic">www.myspace.com/chinap=
aintingmusic</A></DIV>
    <DIV><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic">www.myspace.com/jimgoodinm=
usic</A></DIV>
    <DIV><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinviolinelectro">www.myspace.com/ji=
mgoodinviolinelectro</A></DIV>
    <DIV><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/eastofwhere">www.myspace.com/eastofwhere</=
A></DIV>
    <DIV><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinsoundscapes">www.myspace.com/jimg=
oodinsoundscapes</A></DIV>
    <DIV><BR><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 4:36 PM, Chris =
Sewell &lt;<A=20
    href=3D"mailto:lunamusic@mac.com">lunamusic@mac.com</A>&gt; =
wrote:<BR>
    <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
    style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
#ccc 1px solid">
      <DIV style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word">Its power did. Used to be, =
you couldn't=20
      get on stage in any reputable venue without a union card.=20
      <DIV>
      <DIV></DIV>
      <DIV class=3DWj3C7c>
      <DIV><BR></DIV>
      <DIV><BR>
      <DIV>
      <DIV>On Apr 10, 2008, at 4:31 PM, Travis Hartnett wrote:</DIV><BR>
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">The Musicians Union never went=20
        away...<BR><BR>TH<BR><BR>
        <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:29 PM, Chris =
Sewell=20
        &lt;<A href=3D"mailto:lunamusic@mac.com"=20
        target=3D_blank>lunamusic@mac.com</A>&gt; wrote:<BR>
        <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
        style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; =
BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
          <DIV>Only because we allow it. I say bring back the =
union.&nbsp;=20
          <DIV>
          <DIV></DIV>
          <DIV>
          <DIV><SPAN=20
          style=3D"TEXT-DECORATION: =
underline"><BR></SPAN></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>=
</BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR=
=20
    clear=3Dall><BR>-- <BR>The Acoustic World Guitar of Jim Goodin - <A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com">http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com</A><=
BR>MySpace=20
    (solo) - <A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic">http://www.myspace.com/jim=
goodinmusic</A><BR>Chinapainting=20
    -<BR><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com">http://www.chinapaintingmusic.=
com</A><BR>Chinapainting=20
    on My Space -<BR><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com">http://www.myspace=
.com/chinapaintingmusic.com</A><BR>The=20
    Jim Goodin label and home for 7 other creative souls - <A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.woodandwiremusic.com">http://www.woodandwiremusic.com<=
/A>=20
    <BR>Jim Goodin uses GHS Strings - <A=20
    href=3D"http://www.ghsstrings.com">http://www.ghsstrings.com</A> and =
Seagull=20
    Guitars - <A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.seagullguitars.com">http://www.seagullguitars.com</A>,=
 Jim=20
    Goodin is published by Mel Bay Publications, Inc. - <A=20
    href=3D"http://www.melbay.com">http://www.melbay.com</A>=20
  </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Hey all. Long time member on a previous email address (didn't post
much!) but I'm back on a new one. Anyhoo, just thought it'd be decent
of me to offer up my Echoplex that is for sale here before I offer it
to the great unwashed. Drop me an email if you want to know any more -
Oberheim Echoplex, in white, Loop VI software, max memory, footswitch,
excellent condition.

I'd love to keep it but sometimes you just need to minimize, right?
(that's what i keep telling myself, anyway)

David

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Never play for free???

If that was the case then I should NEVER have done a gig!!!
Now I play for door money in very small places that about pays my beer and
taxi (there fore total profit = 0), and in the good ole bad ole days when I
was an international recording Artiste , my band got tour support from the
label so we could afford to play all over the world. In the end we were
dropped cos we owed too much to them (three quarters of a million UK pounds
(therefore total profit = -750,000 pounds)) So in effect we were PAYING to
play ha ha!!!

...never understand how people MAKE money from playing live... still not the
point really is it... its fun!

joking aside... sod the fee.. make sure you got lots of merch!!
Sell shit is how you CAN make money at shows...!

m

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Never play for free???<br><br>If that was the case then I should NEVER have done a gig!!!<br>Now
I play for door money in very small places that about pays my beer and
taxi (there fore total profit = 0), and in the good ole bad ole days
when I was an international recording Artiste , my band got tour
support from the label so we could afford to play all over the world.
In the end we were dropped cos we owed too much to them (three quarters
of a million UK pounds&nbsp; (therefore total profit = -750,000 pounds)) So
in effect we were PAYING to play ha ha!!!<br>
<br>...never understand how people MAKE money from playing live... still not the point really is it... its fun!<br><br>joking aside... sod the fee.. make sure you got lots of merch!!<br>Sell shit is how you CAN make money at shows...!<br>
<br>m<br>

------=_Part_239_24329650.1207907495113--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 10:39:29 2008
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From: "Rick Walker" <looppool@cruzio.com>
To: "David Gans" <david@trufun.com>,
        "LOOPERS DELIGHT \(posting\)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: Looping venue help
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Hey David Gans,

Is not being paid a reason why you, living in Oakland , have not
played this fabulous and amazing Y2K International Live Looping Fesitval
that has played in your home town and down in Santa Cruz and across the bay
from you in San Francisco for the last 8 years?

If you are so close,  you should come down and play.

Seriously,  I"ll book you if you are interested.   There is no 
pay..............<groan>  but it's fabulous.

We've had all kinds of fantastic professional (and highly paid)
musicians play this thing merely for the chance to connect with the
wonderful community we are in.    Kid Beyond,  Zoe Keating, Amy X Neuburg,
Loop Station! and all of the amazing artists who have travelled thousands of 
miles
form their respective countries to participate.

I'm serious,   come do it................just consider it 
fun..............not commerce.
That's how I look at it.   I've worked for free for 6 straight years to make 
it happen because it's so worth
it.  Ask anyone who's come!!!!

I hope you can make it.  It'll be the third weekend in October this year 
(and every year).

yours,  respectfully,  Rick Walker 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 11:31:57 2008
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Nico Spahni <nicosp@gmx.net>
Subject: slightly OT: vote for my Radiohead remix!
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 13:31:54 +0200
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Hi Loopers

I've participated in a remix contest of Nude by Radiohead (for more  
information about the contest go to http://radioheadremix.com - it's  
still on!).

I've stripped the song of everything but the vocal track (that's why  
it's called the Stripped to the Bones Remix :-). Even though it does  
not contain looping as such, I toyed around with some interesting  
delay effects.

Hear it for yourself at www.myspace.com/nicospahni... and don't  
forget to vote for it.

Thanks and cheers from Switzerland

Nico


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 11:44:51 2008
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From: Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Looping venue help
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 07:44:47 -0400
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I've been listening to Davids radio show for years. He's a celebrity  
among many! You'd be lucky to have him.
On Apr 11, 2008, at 6:39 AM, Rick Walker wrote:

> Hey David Gans,
>
> Is not being paid a reason why you, living in Oakland , have not
> played this fabulous and amazing Y2K International Live Looping  
> Fesitval
> that has played in your home town and down in Santa Cruz and across  
> the bay
> from you in San Francisco for the last 8 years?
>
> If you are so close,  you should come down and play.
>
> Seriously,  I"ll book you if you are interested.   There is no  
> pay..............<groan>  but it's fabulous.
>
> We've had all kinds of fantastic professional (and highly paid)
> musicians play this thing merely for the chance to connect with the
> wonderful community we are in.    Kid Beyond,  Zoe Keating, Amy X  
> Neuburg,
> Loop Station! and all of the amazing artists who have travelled  
> thousands of miles
> form their respective countries to participate.
>
> I'm serious,   come do it................just consider it  
> fun..............not commerce.
> That's how I look at it.   I've worked for free for 6 straight  
> years to make it happen because it's so worth
> it.  Ask anyone who's come!!!!
>
> I hope you can make it.  It'll be the third weekend in October this  
> year (and every year).
>
> yours,  respectfully,  Rick Walker

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 11:48:00 2008
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By the way, I should have said, "Never play for free at a venue  
making money that can pay you", to expand on Rainer's point.



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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
By the way, I should have said, "Never play for free at a venue making =
money that <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"text-decoration: =
underline;">can</span> pay you", to expand on Rainer's =
point.=A0<div><br><div><div><br></div></div></div></body></html>=

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Here is something. I don't know what the costs are yet, but with my looks 
maybe a cool thing....lol

http://www.reuters.com/article/internetNews/idUSN0930719820080410?feedType=RSS&feedName=internetNews

further..

http://secondlife.com/

And...

http://www.myspace.com/slimwarriorsl

Jeff

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "andy butler" <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: Looping venue help


>
>
> Chris Sewell wrote:
>> Never play for free.
>
> "I don't want to sell my music.
> I'd like to give it away because where I got it, you didn't have to pay 
> for it."
> ...Don Van Vliet, 1970
> 

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oh yeah, about 6.oo bucks (real cash) a month to join and you get monthly 
stipend and a signup bonus in virtual money. such a deal...


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Duke" <echohead@embarqmail.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: Looping venue help


> Here is something. I don't know what the costs are yet, but with my looks 
> maybe a cool thing....lol
>
> http://www.reuters.com/article/internetNews/idUSN0930719820080410?feedType=RSS&feedName=internetNews
>
> further..
>
> http://secondlife.com/
>
> And...
>
> http://www.myspace.com/slimwarriorsl
>
> Jeff
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "andy butler" <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: Looping venue help
>
>
>>
>>
>> Chris Sewell wrote:
>>> Never play for free.
>>
>> "I don't want to sell my music.
>> I'd like to give it away because where I got it, you didn't have to pay 
>> for it."
>> ...Don Van Vliet, 1970
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.12/1373 - 
> Release Date: 4/11/2008 9:17 AM
>
> 

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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 09:00:35 -0400
From: "todd reynolds" <toddreyn@gmail.com>
Reply-To: todd@toddreynolds.com
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Looping venue help
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I'm on there (Kamerin Kokorin) and so is LD community member Dennis Moser,
but frankly, I've found it difficult to start a community there without
quite a bit of time spent, and it is HIGHLY addictive for me... Thanks for
bringing it again to the list, Jeff.
but I did get all my live stuff working so that I could perform 'inworld',
and Dennis performs at the Princeton University performance space often,
which is a beautiful space, and Dennis has established a nice audience for
himself (everytime I've visited to watch)...

time for a new thread for this stuff if we get into it, cuz it's a DOOZY of
a convo...

Todd



On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Jeff Duke <echohead@embarqmail.com> wrote:

> oh yeah, about 6.oo bucks (real cash) a month to join and you get monthly
> stipend and a signup bonus in virtual money. such a deal...
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Duke" <echohead@embarqmail.com>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 8:49 AM
> Subject: Re: Looping venue help
>
>
>  Here is something. I don't know what the costs are yet, but with my looks
> > maybe a cool thing....lol
> >
> >
> > http://www.reuters.com/article/internetNews/idUSN0930719820080410?feedType=RSS&feedName=internetNews
> >
> > further..
> >
> > http://secondlife.com/
> >
> > And...
> >
> > http://www.myspace.com/slimwarriorsl
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "andy butler" <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk
> > >
> > To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 2:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: Looping venue help
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Chris Sewell wrote:
> > >
> > > > Never play for free.
> > > >
> > >
> > > "I don't want to sell my music.
> > > I'd like to give it away because where I got it, you didn't have to
> > > pay for it."
> > > ...Don Van Vliet, 1970
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.12/1373 -
> > Release Date: 4/11/2008 9:17 AM
> >
> >
> >
>


-- 
http://www.toddreynolds.com |:
http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic |:
------------------------------------------------------|:
917.576.6166
todd@toddreynolds.com
toddreyn@gmail.com

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I&#39;m on there (Kamerin Kokorin) and so is LD community member Dennis Moser, but frankly, I&#39;ve found it difficult to start a community there without quite a bit of time spent, and it is HIGHLY addictive for me... Thanks for bringing it again to the list, Jeff.<div>
<br></div><div>but I did get all my live stuff working so that I could perform &#39;inworld&#39;, and Dennis performs at the Princeton University performance space often, which is a beautiful space, and Dennis has established a nice audience for himself (everytime I&#39;ve visited to watch)...&nbsp;</div>
<div><br></div><div>time for a new thread for this stuff if we get into it, cuz it&#39;s a DOOZY of a convo...&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Todd</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Jeff Duke &lt;<a href="mailto:echohead@embarqmail.com">echohead@embarqmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">oh yeah, about 6.oo bucks (real cash) a month to join and you get monthly stipend and a signup bonus in virtual money. such a deal...<br>

<br>
<br>
----- Original Message ----- From: &quot;Jeff Duke&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:echohead@embarqmail.com" target="_blank">echohead@embarqmail.com</a>&gt;<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
To: &lt;<a href="mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" target="_blank">Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</a>&gt;<br></div>
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 8:49 AM<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
Subject: Re: Looping venue help<br>
<br>
<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="Ih2E3d">
Here is something. I don&#39;t know what the costs are yet, but with my looks maybe a cool thing....lol<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/internetNews/idUSN0930719820080410?feedType=RSS&amp;feedName=internetNews" target="_blank">http://www.reuters.com/article/internetNews/idUSN0930719820080410?feedType=RSS&amp;feedName=internetNews</a><br>

<br>
further..<br>
<br>
<a href="http://secondlife.com/" target="_blank">http://secondlife.com/</a><br>
<br>
And...<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.myspace.com/slimwarriorsl" target="_blank">http://www.myspace.com/slimwarriorsl</a><br>
<br>
Jeff<br>
<br>
----- Original Message ----- From: &quot;andy butler&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:akbutler@tiscali.co.uk" target="_blank">akbutler@tiscali.co.uk</a>&gt;<br>
To: &lt;<a href="mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" target="_blank">Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 2:18 PM<br>
Subject: Re: Looping venue help<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
Chris Sewell wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Never play for free.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
&quot;I don&#39;t want to sell my music.<br>
I&#39;d like to give it away because where I got it, you didn&#39;t have to pay for it.&quot;<br>
...Don Van Vliet, 1970<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<br></div>
-- <br>
No virus found in this incoming message.<br>
Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.12/1373 - Release Date: 4/11/2008 9:17 AM<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><a href="http://www.toddreynolds.com">http://www.toddreynolds.com</a> |:<br><a href="http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic">http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic</a> |:<br>
------------------------------------------------------|:<br>917.576.6166 <br><a href="mailto:todd@toddreynolds.com">todd@toddreynolds.com</a><br><a href="mailto:toddreyn@gmail.com">toddreyn@gmail.com</a>
</div>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 13:18:31 2008
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Subject: Re: R.i.p mike battle
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Great - could you now remove me from the distribution list - I have made 
this request twice before.

kd



Leew3803@aol.com 
04/10/2008 11:42 PM
Please respond to
Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com


To
Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
cc

Subject
R.i.p mike battle






Got news today Mike Battle died (inventor of the echoplex)

http://www.tubeplex.com/mikebattle.html


R.I.P MIKE


http://www.loopersdelight.com/musing...ke_Battle.html



Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.

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<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Great - could you now remove me from
the distribution list - I have made this request twice before.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">kd</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td width=40%><font size=1 face="sans-serif"><b>Leew3803@aol.com</b> </font>
<p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">04/10/2008 11:42 PM</font>
<table border>
<tr valign=top>
<td bgcolor=white>
<div align=center><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Please respond to<br>
Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</font></div></table>
<br>
<td width=59%>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">To</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">cc</font></div>
<td>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Subject</font></div>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">R.i.p mike battle</font></table>
<br>
<table>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<td></table>
<br></table>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">Got news today Mike Battle died (inventor
of the echoplex)<br>
</font><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><u><br>
</u></font><a href=http://www.tubeplex.com/mikebattle.html target=_blank><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><u>http://www.tubeplex.com/mikebattle.html</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
<br>
<br>
R.I.P MIKE</font><img src=cid:_1_05DBCAF805DBC3A000487DA986257428><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
<br>
</font><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><u><br>
</u></font><a href=http://www.loopersdelight.com/musing...ke_Battle.html target=_blank><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><u>http://www.loopersdelight.com/musing...ke_Battle.html</u></font></a>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
<br>
</font>
<br>
<hr><font size=2 face="Arial">Planning your summer road trip? Check out
</font><a href="http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016" target=_blank><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><u>AOL
Travel Guides</u></font></a><font size=2 face="Arial">.</font>
<br>
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loop VI?...

2008/4/11, David <tremendous@gmail.com>:
>
> Hey all. Long time member on a previous email address (didn't post
> much!) but I'm back on a new one. Anyhoo, just thought it'd be decent
> of me to offer up my Echoplex that is for sale here before I offer it
> to the great unwashed. Drop me an email if you want to know any more -
> Oberheim Echoplex, in white, Loop VI software, max memory, footswitch,
> excellent condition.
>
> I'd love to keep it but sometimes you just need to minimize, right?
> (that's what i keep telling myself, anyway)
>
> David
>
>


-- 
The Playing Orchestra: http://www.telefonica.net/web2/tpo
Chain Tape Collective: http://www.ct-collective.com
TPO at myspace: http://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra
TPO at Jamendo: http://www.jamendo.com

------=_Part_27771_30126229.1207920304821
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loop VI?... <br><br>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">2008/4/11, David &lt;<a href="mailto:tremendous@gmail.com">tremendous@gmail.com</a>&gt;:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Hey all. Long time member on a previous email address (didn&#39;t post<br>much!) but I&#39;m back on a new one. Anyhoo, just thought it&#39;d be decent<br>
of me to offer up my Echoplex that is for sale here before I offer it<br>to the great unwashed. Drop me an email if you want to know any more -<br>Oberheim Echoplex, in white, Loop VI software, max memory, footswitch,<br>
excellent condition.<br><br>I&#39;d love to keep it but sometimes you just need to minimize, right?<br>(that&#39;s what i keep telling myself, anyway)<br><br>David<br><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>
The Playing Orchestra: <a href="http://www.telefonica.net/web2/tpo">http://www.telefonica.net/web2/tpo</a><br>Chain Tape Collective: <a href="http://www.ct-collective.com">http://www.ct-collective.com</a><br>TPO at myspace: <a href="http://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra">http://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra</a><br>
TPO at Jamendo: <a href="http://www.jamendo.com">http://www.jamendo.com</a> 

------=_Part_27771_30126229.1207920304821--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 13:35:07 2008
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From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?tEd_=AE_KiLLiAn?= <tedkillian@charter.net>
Subject: Re: R.i.p mike battle
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 06:34:59 -0700
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Hey Kevin,

Subscribing and unsubscribing are an automatic thing.

The instructions are on the LD website . . . and I repeat them for you 
here:

	To unsubscribe, send mail with the word "unsubscribe" in
	both the subject and body, and no sig files or anything else, to:

	Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com

	If you are on the digest version of Looper's Delight, send
	your unsubscribe request to:

	Loopers-Delight-d-request@loopers-delight.com

	Don't send your unsubscribe message to the list, or people
	will make fun of you and you will feel like a dork.

Cheers,

Ted

On Apr 11, 2008, at 6:11 AM, Kevin Dix wrote:

> Great - could you now remove me from the distribution list - I have 
> made this request twice before.
>
> kd
>
> Leew3803@aol.com
>
> 04/10/2008 11:42 PM
> Please respond to
>  Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>
> To
> Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> cc
> Subject
> R.i.p mike battle
>
> Got news today Mike Battle died (inventor of the echoplex)
>
> http://www.tubeplex.com/mikebattle.html
>
> R.I.P MIKE<unknown.gif>
>
> http://www.loopersdelight.com/musing...ke_Battle.html
>
> Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.

--Apple-Mail-1--167050407
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Hey Kevin,


Subscribing and unsubscribing are an automatic thing.


The instructions are on the LD website . . . and I repeat them for you
here:


<bold><color><param>FFFF,0000,0000</param>	To unsubscribe, send mail
with the word "unsubscribe" in 

	both the subject and body, and no sig files or anything else, to:


	Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com


	If you are on the digest version of Looper's Delight, send 

	your unsubscribe request to:


	Loopers-Delight-d-request@loopers-delight.com


	Don't send your unsubscribe message to the list, or people 

	will make fun of you and you will feel like a dork.</color></bold>


Cheers,


Ted


On Apr 11, 2008, at 6:11 AM, Kevin Dix wrote:


<excerpt>Great - could you now remove me from the distribution list -
I have made this request twice before. 


kd 


Leew3803@aol.com 


04/10/2008 11:42 PM 

Please respond to

 Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com


To

Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com 

cc

Subject

R.i.p mike battle


Got news today Mike Battle died (inventor of the echoplex)


http://www.tubeplex.com/mikebattle.html


R.I.P MIKE<<unknown.gif>


http://www.loopersdelight.com/musing...ke_Battle.html 


Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. 

</excerpt>
--Apple-Mail-1--167050407--

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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:41:56 +0100
From: David <tremendous@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Echoplex for sale
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	 <afb941d0804110625v188018d9rb79bfb24c53d4ab4@mail.gmail.com>
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hah, my roman numerals/typing are not so good. I mean IV (4)

Sorry!

David

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 2:25 PM, Raul Bonell <raul.bonell@gmail.com> wrote:
> loop VI?...
>
>
> 2008/4/11, David <tremendous@gmail.com>:
>
>
> > Hey all. Long time member on a previous email address (didn't post
> > much!) but I'm back on a new one. Anyhoo, just thought it'd be decent
> > of me to offer up my Echoplex that is for sale here before I offer it
> > to the great unwashed. Drop me an email if you want to know any more -
> > Oberheim Echoplex, in white, Loop VI software, max memory, footswitch,
> > excellent condition.
> >
> > I'd love to keep it but sometimes you just need to minimize, right?
> > (that's what i keep telling myself, anyway)
> >
> > David
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
>  The Playing Orchestra: http://www.telefonica.net/web2/tpo
> Chain Tape Collective: http://www.ct-collective.com
> TPO at myspace: http://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra
>  TPO at Jamendo: http://www.jamendo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 13:49:29 2008
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Subject: Re: HOW MANY LOOPS DO YOU USE SIMLUTANEOUSLY?
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----- Original Message ----- 



> Krispen Hartung schrieb:
>> I'll reach college when I am 80.

> How come that most masterpieces are done at youngsters age?...

Good question...maybe because the composers are prodigies or genius? I'm 
afraid I'm not in that part of the bell curve.  I hear there are tradeoffs, 
one being socially dysfunctional. :)

All in jest, on a bright and sunny Friday morning....oh, what a week.

Kris

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 13:53:12 2008
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Subject: Re: Looping venue help
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 07:53:09 -0600
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That's a good distinction to make.   I guess we want to avoid gigs where =
we are being exploited. /K
  ----- Original Message -----=20


  By the way, I should have said, "Never play for free at a venue making =
money that can pay you", to expand on Rainer's point.=20




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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3268" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY=20
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
webkit-line-break: after-white-space"=20
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>That's a good distinction to =
make.&nbsp;&nbsp; I=20
guess we want to avoid gigs where we are being exploited. =
/K</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>By=20
  the way, I should have said, "Never play for free at a venue making =
money that=20
  <SPAN class=3DApple-style-span style=3D"TEXT-DECORATION: =
underline">can</SPAN> pay=20
  you", to expand on Rainer's point.&nbsp;
  <DIV><BR>
  <DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 14:19:54 2008
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
References: <47FE3EE1.8070504@mhorse.com> <B4F56DD1-352F-4EBB-9F13-0DDD25B68737@mac.com> <47FE6821.4060703@tiscali.co.uk> <002101c89bda$ccfa9850$0202a8c0@YOUR08D5303051>
Subject: Re: Looping venue help
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 08:19:50 -0600
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Very cool. Similar to what Hewlett-Packard is doing with our Halo Room. =
http://www.hp.com/halo/introducing.html

We actually laid our own fiber optics cable under the ocean to support =
this technology running through a maximum of 4 routers world wide, to 22 =
countries on five continents - including Australia, Brazil, Canada, =
Chile, China, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Hong Kong, India, =
Ireland, Israel, Japan, the Netherlands, Singapore, Spain, Sweden, =
Switzerland, Taiwan, the United Kingdom and the United States. It is =
54mbps T3 line speed, with apparently no perceived latency, based on =
user tests.

And they are only a mere $250,000 to $550,000 each, and higher depending =
on room size, etc. . :)  Hmmm, maybe I can get HP to sponsor me and =
provide one for BEMF.

Kris


----- Original Message -----=20
 Looping venue help


> Here is something. I don't know what the costs are yet, but with my =
looks=20
> maybe a cool thing....lol
>=20
> =
http://www.reuters.com/article/internetNews/idUSN0930719820080410?feedTyp=
e=3DRSS&feedName=3DinternetNews
>=20
> further..
>=20
> http://secondlife.com/
>=20
> And...
>=20
> http://www.myspace.com/slimwarriorsl
>=20
> Jeff
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: "andy butler" <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: Looping venue help
>=20
>=20
>>
>>
>> Chris Sewell wrote:
>>> Never play for free.
>>
>> "I don't want to sell my music.
>> I'd like to give it away because where I got it, you didn't have to =
pay=20
>> for it."
>> ...Don Van Vliet, 1970
>>=20
>
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3268" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Very cool. Similar to what =
Hewlett-Packard is doing=20
with our Halo Room. </FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.hp.com/halo/introducing.html"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://www.hp.com/halo/introducing.html</FONT></A></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We actually laid our own fiber optics =
cable under=20
the ocean to support this technology running through a maximum of 4 =
routers=20
world wide, to 22 countries on five continents - including Australia, =
Brazil,=20
Canada, Chile, China, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Hong Kong, =
India,=20
Ireland, Israel, Japan, the Netherlands, Singapore, Spain, Sweden, =
Switzerland,=20
Taiwan, the United Kingdom and the United States. It is&nbsp;54mbps T3 =
line=20
speed, with apparently no perceived latency, based on user =
tests.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And they are only a mere $250,000 to =
$550,000 each,=20
and higher depending on room size, etc. . :)&nbsp; Hmmm, maybe I can get =
HP to=20
sponsor me and provide one for BEMF.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;Looping venue =
help</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><BR><FONT size=3D2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&gt; Here is something. I don't know what the costs are yet, =
but with my=20
looks <BR>&gt; maybe a cool thing....lol<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; </FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.reuters.com/article/internetNews/idUSN0930719820080410=
?feedType=3DRSS&amp;feedName=3DinternetNews"><FONT=20
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://www.reuters.com/article/internetNews/idUSN093071982008041=
0?feedType=3DRSS&amp;feedName=3DinternetNews</FONT></A><BR><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; further..<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; </FONT><A =

href=3D"http://secondlife.com/"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://secondlife.com/</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>&gt;=20
<BR>&gt; And...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; </FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/slimwarriorsl"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://www.myspace.com/slimwarriorsl</FONT></A><BR><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; Jeff<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ----- Original Message =
----- <BR>&gt;=20
From: "andy butler" &lt;</FONT><A =
href=3D"mailto:akbutler@tiscali.co.uk"><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>akbutler@tiscali.co.uk</FONT></A><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&gt;<BR>&gt; To: &lt;</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</FONT></A><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&gt;<BR>&gt; Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 2:18 PM<BR>&gt; =
Subject: Re:=20
Looping venue help<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; =
Chris=20
Sewell wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Never play for =
free.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; "I=20
don't want to sell my music.<BR>&gt;&gt; I'd like to give it away =
because where=20
I got it, you didn't have to pay <BR>&gt;&gt; for it."<BR>&gt;&gt; =
...Don Van=20
Vliet, 1970<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;</FONT></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0407_01C89BAC.D01F46D0--

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-- 

6.8 Million Dollars has been credited in your favor,Contact Miss.Linda
Hill (misslindahill203@yahoo.it) With the following,Name:Delivery
Address: Age: Occupation: and Phone:Regards. Miss Linda Hill

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6.8 Million Dollars has been credited in your favor,Contact Miss.Linda
Hill (misslindahill203@yahoo.it) With the following,Name:Delivery
Address: Age: Occupation: and Phone:Regards. Miss Linda Hill

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 17:07:35 2008
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>By the way, I should have said, "Never play for free at a venue 
>making money that can pay you", to expand on Rainer's point.

That is an important distinction.



-- 

David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730
Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
Web site: http://www.dgans.com

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<div><br></div>
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<blockquote type="cite" cite>
<blockquote>By the way, I should have said, &quot;Never play for free
at a venue making money that can pay you&quot;, to expand on Rainer's
point.</blockquote>
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<div><br></div>
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<div><br></div>
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<x-sigsep><pre>-- 
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<div><br>
David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com<br>
Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA
94610-2730<br>
Blog:&nbsp; http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com<br>
Web site: http://www.dgans.com<br>
</div>
</body>
</html>
--============_-1004188844==_ma============--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 17:07:36 2008
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At 3:39 AM -0700 4/11/08, Rick Walker wrote:
>Hey David Gans,
>
>Is not being paid a reason why you, living in Oakland , have not
>played this fabulous and amazing Y2K International Live Looping Fesitval
>that has played in your home town and down in Santa Cruz and across the bay
>from you in San Francisco for the last 8 years?
>
>If you are so close,  you should come down and play.
>
>Seriously,  I"ll book you if you are interested.   There is no 
>pay..............<groan>  but it's fabulous.

I would be delighted to participate.  Honored, even.

For me it has been a matter of scheduling.  And I fear it will be 
again this year.  I have an annual festival gig in Florida; this year 
it's on the fourth weekend of October, but I am going out a week 
earlier to do concerts in Atlanta, Tallahassee, and Jacksonville.

Believe me, it is not for lack of desire on my part!




-- 

David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730
Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
Web site: http://www.dgans.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 17:22:22 2008
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At 7:44 AM -0400 4/11/08, Chris Sewell wrote:
>I've been listening to Davids radio show for years. He's a celebrity 
>among many! You'd be lucky to have him.

And that sums up the conflict of my professional life: being well 
known as a Grateful Dead "dick jockey" interferes at times with my 
progress as a musician in my own right.  But I am making progress, 
and I do sound more like myself than like the G.F.D.



-- 

David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730
Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
Web site: http://www.dgans.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 17:37:18 2008
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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:22:29 -0700
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Subject: attitude
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My wife is a schoolteacher.  Talk about a profession that is 
undervalued in this society!  (But she's got a great health plan, 
which means we're not on the streets as a result of her bout with 
lymphoma five years ago.  She won, by the way.)

Every one of us in this bidness watches in horror as profoundly 
unworthy artists prosper while genius and innovation go begging. 
There is no justice, and it's damn hard to get any.  I don't see much 
point in raging about it.

Just yesterday, I put myself into a funk after hearing I was turned 
down for a gig at a festival that I was sure I'd be perfect for.  And 
the promoter is someone I thought was favorably inclined toward me 
and my music. I grumbled to my booking agent briefly ("...reminded 
that if you want a friend in the music business, get a dog.  And hope 
he plays the banjo.') and then went back to work.

I make music that doesn't fall neatly into any category.  I write 
songs that don't all sound like this or that, and I intersperse them 
in performance with loop pieces, composed and improvised.  I'm too 
weird for the singer-songwriter world and not weird enough for the 
avant-garde or whatever you call it.  And on top of that, I'm too 
fucking old to go to folk/bluegrass festivals in remote locations on 
my own dime, sleep in the dirt, and work my way up from the 
campground jams to the mainstage.  Plus: damn hard to schlep an 
Echoplex and pedal board from campfire to campfire.

You deal with it.  You take the gig.  You do the best you can and 
build your fan base the only way it's done: one at a time.  I figure 
if I sell one CD Im ahead of the game, and if I bring home a few 
email addresses for the spam list, that's a win too.

One of the best pieces of advice I ever got came when I interviewed 
producer Ted Templeman for BAM Magazine.  He described his first 
encounter with Van Halen, at a grubby club in Hollywood: a dozen 
people in the room, but they were belting it out like it was a 
sold-out show at the Forum.

I call it the "you-shoulda-been-there" approach: If there are four 
people in the audience, send 'em all out of there telling their 
friends they missed something great.




-- 

David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730
Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
Web site: http://www.dgans.com


From service@redfcu.org  Fri Apr 11 17:53:53 2008
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You have one new security message at REDSTONE Federal Credit Union. 

INBOX ( 1 )

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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 14:01:10 -0400
From: "todd reynolds" <toddreyn@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: attitude
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I've been waiting a while to throw down on this issue, and really value all
the opinions going to and fro through my inbox, and as always love the
wisdom and comraderie found on our humble list.
David, I concur, and appreciate you equalizing the 'unappreciated' field
here. My dad was a music highschoolteacher.  The first and really only time
I ever wanted to kill someone was when the principal called my mom and put
dad on the phone, having finally broken down crying after being egged as he
walked across the quad.  He taught in South Central LA, and with Prop 13,
all his wonderful music classes which changed a lot of lives just vanished.
Dark, I know, but worth mentioning.  He ended his career as a remedial
english teacher for gang members with a cop in the room.  Also noble, but
quite a different place from which he started.

Also to David for reference. I'm the violinist on the Blues for Allah
project of years ago with Joe Gallant, I think we met once or twice, and
have many friends in common.

A comment on this thread, if I may.

I'm a New Yorker, and as such have played more gigs than I can count at the
Knitting Factory for 3 people or less.  I've gotten unreal fees which are
sometimes embarrassing, and have worked with great artists on all 'levels'
of the visibility spectrum.  I've had a band which was very successful with
a budget in the 6 figures, and now, on my own, am humbled by low fees once
again. I play for free sometimes as well, and never complain unless I've
been hired without my knowledge as audio wallpaper.  That's just not what I
hope to offer, that's all.  On the other hand, I still do concert halls and
clubs with my own material and am compensated very well.

It's not a union world anymore, as I think Krispen mentioned, and nobody is
taking anything from anyone anymore I don't think.  ESPECIALLY in the
creative field.  At the same time, I've been underbid before, which is fine.
 I just try to make sure I'm not underbidding anyone else!, lol.

As our careers and politics and money ebbs and flows, I think it only serves
to beg the question of why we do this at all.  For me, it's some imperative
lodged between entertaining, feeding (spiritually) myself, and just having
done it since I was 4, and a desire to bring the world (even the small world
of the 3-2000 member audience) into a place of community interaction with a
voice which goes beyond words. Not to get too warm and fuzzy about it, but
when I'm engaged in bringing folks together around a common enjoyed
experience and goal, even for a moment, it pays more than money. I'd assume
it is very much the same for most of us.  Should we artists get paid to do
that?  I think so.  Absolutely.  We are the shamans, the priests, the
alchemists of our society.  I know we're often commercially oriented, but
even those folks who make that their goal are often simply speaking a
spiritual and galvanizing language, with their intent riding somewhere on
the continuum of the purely musical and artistic to the commercial, the
music still being what it is from them, heartfelt, we hope, and healing and
inspiring.  We're all on there somewhere, and all fighting the same battle
to stay alive and to keep singing... May we all be celebrated for our
offerings to the degree we all desire, someday.  And someday, when I'm
feeling just like s**t about my own career, and underappreciated, someone
remind me I wrote this...

My dos pesos... offered up in kindness and solidarity, glad to have this
convo up on the list!

Bests,

Todd

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 1:22 PM, David Gans <david@trufun.com> wrote:

>
>
> My wife is a schoolteacher.  Talk about a profession that is undervalued
> in this society!  (But she's got a great health plan, which means we're not
> on the streets as a result of her bout with lymphoma five years ago.  She
> won, by the way.)
>
> Every one of us in this bidness watches in horror as profoundly unworthy
> artists prosper while genius and innovation go begging. There is no justice,
> and it's damn hard to get any.  I don't see much point in raging about it.
>
> Just yesterday, I put myself into a funk after hearing I was turned down
> for a gig at a festival that I was sure I'd be perfect for.  And the
> promoter is someone I thought was favorably inclined toward me and my music.
> I grumbled to my booking agent briefly ("...reminded that if you want a
> friend in the music business, get a dog.  And hope he plays the banjo.') and
> then went back to work.
>
> I make music that doesn't fall neatly into any category.  I write songs
> that don't all sound like this or that, and I intersperse them in
> performance with loop pieces, composed and improvised.  I'm too weird for
> the singer-songwriter world and not weird enough for the avant-garde or
> whatever you call it.  And on top of that, I'm too fucking old to go to
> folk/bluegrass festivals in remote locations on my own dime, sleep in the
> dirt, and work my way up from the campground jams to the mainstage.  Plus:
> damn hard to schlep an Echoplex and pedal board from campfire to campfire.
>
> You deal with it.  You take the gig.  You do the best you can and build
> your fan base the only way it's done: one at a time.  I figure if I sell one
> CD Im ahead of the game, and if I bring home a few email addresses for the
> spam list, that's a win too.
>
> One of the best pieces of advice I ever got came when I interviewed
> producer Ted Templeman for BAM Magazine.  He described his first encounter
> with Van Halen, at a grubby club in Hollywood: a dozen people in the room,
> but they were belting it out like it was a sold-out show at the Forum.
>
> I call it the "you-shoulda-been-there" approach: If there are four people
> in the audience, send 'em all out of there telling their friends they missed
> something great.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
> Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730
> Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
> Web site: http://www.dgans.com
>
>
>


-- 
http://www.toddreynolds.com |:
http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic |:
------------------------------------------------------|:
917.576.6166
todd@toddreynolds.com
toddreyn@gmail.com

------=_Part_35634_32009936.1207936870141
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline

I&#39;ve been waiting a while to throw down on this issue, and really value=
 all the opinions going to and fro through my inbox, and as always love the=
 wisdom and comraderie found on our humble list.<div><br></div><div>David, =
I concur, and appreciate you equalizing the &#39;unappreciated&#39; field h=
ere. My dad was a music highschoolteacher. &nbsp;The first and really only =
time I ever wanted to kill someone was when the principal called my mom and=
 put dad on the phone, having finally broken down crying after being egged =
as he walked across the quad. &nbsp;He taught in South Central LA, and with=
 Prop 13, all his wonderful music classes which changed a lot of lives just=
 vanished. Dark, I know, but worth mentioning. &nbsp;He ended his career as=
 a remedial english teacher for gang members with a cop in the room. &nbsp;=
Also noble, but quite a different place from which he started.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br></div><div>Also to David for reference. I&#39;m the violinist on t=
he Blues for Allah project of years ago with Joe Gallant, I think we met on=
ce or twice, and have many friends in common.</div><div><br></div><div>
A comment on this thread, if I may.</div><div><br></div><div>I&#39;m a New =
Yorker, and as such have played more gigs than I can count at the Knitting =
Factory for 3 people or less. &nbsp;I&#39;ve gotten unreal fees which are s=
ometimes embarrassing, and have worked with great artists on all &#39;level=
s&#39; of the visibility spectrum. &nbsp;I&#39;ve had a band which was very=
 successful with a budget in the 6 figures, and now, on my own, am humbled =
by low fees once again. I play for free sometimes as well, and never compla=
in unless I&#39;ve been hired without my knowledge as audio wallpaper. &nbs=
p;That&#39;s just not what I hope to offer, that&#39;s all. &nbsp;On the ot=
her hand, I still do concert halls and clubs with my own material and am co=
mpensated very well.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br></div><div>It&#39;s not a union world anymore, as I think Krispen =
mentioned, and nobody is taking anything from anyone anymore I don&#39;t th=
ink. &nbsp;ESPECIALLY in the creative field. &nbsp;At the same time, I&#39;=
ve been underbid before, which is fine. &nbsp;I just try to make sure I&#39=
;m not underbidding anyone else!, lol.</div>
<div><br></div><div>As our careers and politics and money ebbs and flows, I=
 think it only serves to beg the question of why we do this at all. &nbsp;F=
or me, it&#39;s some imperative lodged between entertaining, feeding (spiri=
tually) myself, and just having done it since I was 4, and a desire to brin=
g the world (even the small world of the 3-2000 member audience) into a pla=
ce of community interaction with a voice which goes beyond words. Not to ge=
t too warm and fuzzy about it, but when I&#39;m engaged in bringing folks t=
ogether around a common enjoyed experience and goal, even for a moment, it =
pays more than money. I&#39;d assume it is very much the same for most of u=
s. &nbsp;Should we artists get paid to do that? &nbsp;I think so. &nbsp;Abs=
olutely. &nbsp;We are the shamans, the priests, the alchemists of our socie=
ty. &nbsp;I know we&#39;re often commercially oriented, but even those folk=
s who make that their goal are often simply speaking a spiritual and galvan=
izing language, with their intent riding somewhere on the continuum of the =
purely musical and artistic to the commercial, the music still being what i=
t is from them, heartfelt, we hope, and healing and inspiring. &nbsp;We&#39=
;re all on there somewhere, and all fighting the same battle to stay alive =
and to keep singing... May we all be celebrated for our offerings to the de=
gree we all desire, someday. &nbsp;And someday, when I&#39;m feeling just l=
ike s**t about my own career, and underappreciated, someone remind me I wro=
te this...</div>
<div><br></div><div>My dos pesos... offered up in kindness and solidarity, =
glad to have this convo up on the list!</div><div><br></div><div>Bests,</di=
v><div><br></div><div>Todd<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 11=
, 2008 at 1:22 PM, David Gans &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:david@trufun.com">david=
@trufun.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><br>
<br>
My wife is a schoolteacher. &nbsp;Talk about a profession that is undervalu=
ed in this society! &nbsp;(But she&#39;s got a great health plan, which mea=
ns we&#39;re not on the streets as a result of her bout with lymphoma five =
years ago. &nbsp;She won, by the way.)<br>

<br>
Every one of us in this bidness watches in horror as profoundly unworthy ar=
tists prosper while genius and innovation go begging. There is no justice, =
and it&#39;s damn hard to get any. &nbsp;I don&#39;t see much point in ragi=
ng about it.<br>

<br>
Just yesterday, I put myself into a funk after hearing I was turned down fo=
r a gig at a festival that I was sure I&#39;d be perfect for. &nbsp;And the=
 promoter is someone I thought was favorably inclined toward me and my musi=
c. I grumbled to my booking agent briefly (&quot;...reminded that if you wa=
nt a friend in the music business, get a dog. &nbsp;And hope he plays the b=
anjo.&#39;) and then went back to work.<br>

<br>
I make music that doesn&#39;t fall neatly into any category. &nbsp;I write =
songs that don&#39;t all sound like this or that, and I intersperse them in=
 performance with loop pieces, composed and improvised. &nbsp;I&#39;m too w=
eird for the singer-songwriter world and not weird enough for the avant-gar=
de or whatever you call it. &nbsp;And on top of that, I&#39;m too fucking o=
ld to go to folk/bluegrass festivals in remote locations on my own dime, sl=
eep in the dirt, and work my way up from the campground jams to the mainsta=
ge. &nbsp;Plus: damn hard to schlep an Echoplex and pedal board from campfi=
re to campfire.<br>

<br>
You deal with it. &nbsp;You take the gig. &nbsp;You do the best you can and=
 build your fan base the only way it&#39;s done: one at a time. &nbsp;I fig=
ure if I sell one CD Im ahead of the game, and if I bring home a few email =
addresses for the spam list, that&#39;s a win too.<br>

<br>
One of the best pieces of advice I ever got came when I interviewed produce=
r Ted Templeman for BAM Magazine. &nbsp;He described his first encounter wi=
th Van Halen, at a grubby club in Hollywood: a dozen people in the room, bu=
t they were belting it out like it was a sold-out show at the Forum.<br>

<br>
I call it the &quot;you-shoulda-been-there&quot; approach: If there are fou=
r people in the audience, send &#39;em all out of there telling their frien=
ds they missed something great.<br><font color=3D"#888888">
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
David Gans - <a href=3D"mailto:david@trufun.com" target=3D"_blank">david@tr=
ufun.com</a> or <a href=3D"mailto:david@gdhour.com" target=3D"_blank">david=
@gdhour.com</a><br>
Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730<br>
Blog: &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tp://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com</a><br>
Web site: <a href=3D"http://www.dgans.com" target=3D"_blank">http://www.dga=
ns.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</font></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><a href=3D"http:=
//www.toddreynolds.com">http://www.toddreynolds.com</a> |:<br><a href=3D"ht=
tp://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic">http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic</a=
> |:<br>
------------------------------------------------------|:<br>917.576.6166 <b=
r><a href=3D"mailto:todd@toddreynolds.com">todd@toddreynolds.com</a><br><a =
href=3D"mailto:toddreyn@gmail.com">toddreyn@gmail.com</a>
</div>

------=_Part_35634_32009936.1207936870141--

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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 11:29:21 -0700
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Subject: Re: attitude
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>Also to David for reference. I'm the violinist on the Blues for 
>Allah project of years ago with Joe Gallant

Were you at the Knit gigs?  Then we met!



>I think we met once or twice, and have many friends in common.

Do you know Grisha Alexeev?  (I think that's his last name - drummer) 
I really liked that guy.  And his wife, Diana(?) - great folks.



>I'm a New Yorker, and as such have played more gigs than I can count 
>at the Knitting Factory for 3 people or less.  I've gotten unreal 
>fees which are sometimes embarrassing, and have worked with great 
>artists on all 'levels' of the visibility spectrum.  I've had a band 
>which was very successful with a budget in the 6 figures, and now, 
>on my own, am humbled by low fees once again. I play for free 
>sometimes as well, and never complain unless I've been hired without 
>my knowledge as audio wallpaper.

I don't even mind doing those gigs, as long as I know ahead of time 
that that's what it is.  Any opportunity to stand up and play is an 
opportunity to improve your shops, marketability, and/or character.



>when I'm engaged in bringing folks together around a common enjoyed 
>experience and goal, even for a moment, it pays more than money. I'd 
>assume it is very much the same for most of us.  Should we artists 
>get paid to do that?

In a perfect world, hell yes!




-- 

David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730
Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
Web site: http://www.dgans.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 19:36:31 2008
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Beth Bahia Cohen <bethbahia@mac.com>
Subject: EDP repair
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:36:10 -0400
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I'm back in Boston with my broken EDP - the output channel doesn't  
work - Does anyone have any thoughts about where I can get it  
repaired?  I am often driving between Boston and NY, so anywhere in  
or between those two cities is good....Thanks.....Beth

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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:49:46 -0400
From: "Tony K" <bigtonyk@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: OT: bad news, good news, bad news
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Bad news... someone broke into my house and stole all my cameras. :(

Good news... none of my musical equipment was taken.  Cops said it's kids
looking for small untraceable stuff.  I guess cameras are easy.  Guitars are
not.

Bad news... my video camera was a Sony Digital8 which is a dead format and
nobody makes D8 cameras anymore.  I've already started the E-Bay watch so I
can at least get something I can transfer all my old tapes from.  What are
people's thoughts on the 'new' video formats?  HDD?  DVD? MemStick?


-- 
-==-=-=-
Tony

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Bad news... someone broke into my house and stole all my cameras. :(<br><br>Good news... none of my musical equipment was taken.&nbsp; Cops said it&#39;s kids looking for small untraceable stuff.&nbsp; I guess cameras are easy.&nbsp; Guitars are not.<br>
<br>Bad news... my video camera was a Sony Digital8 which is a dead format and nobody makes D8 cameras anymore.&nbsp; I&#39;ve already started the E-Bay watch so I can at least get something I can transfer all my old tapes from.&nbsp; What are people&#39;s thoughts on the &#39;new&#39; video formats?&nbsp; HDD?&nbsp; DVD? MemStick?&nbsp; <br>
<br><br>-- <br>-==-=-=- <br>Tony

------=_Part_35233_23145003.1207943386279--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 20:09:13 2008
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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:09:10 -0400
From: "Dennis Moser" <sinsofmachaut@gmail.com>
To: todd@toddreynolds.com
Subject: Second Life as a Paying Venue
Cc: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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Thanks, Todd ...

Yes, Second Life CAN actually be a good regular gig and can provide a
few extra hundred bucks per month for playing while wearing your
pajamas, not smelling like stale beer and smoke when you finish and
not having to worry about lugging your gear up 4 flights of stairs or
having it ripped off from your car.

But it's like any other gig in that you have to take it seriously and
work hard at giving your best to the audience.

Last year I think I did over 200 concerts; this year, I've scaled back
considerably, but only because I have some real life projects that are
keeping my hands full. I have a regular monthly concert series that I
am doing this year at one particular venue (Bibi's Sky Castle, for the
cognescenti!) and will probably add a couple of extra performances
through the rest of the year.

There are not many folks who are self-professed Loopers performing in
SL; don't know why and maybe it isn't important.

But if you want to share your music and are willling to spending some
time developing a highly appreciative audience, then you should
consider it. It always amazes me to see the spikes in downloads and CD
sales after each performance, with more of them coming from Europe and
the UK than the US ... what is it they say about a prophet not being
appreciated in their own land?

If you do sign on to Second Life, feel free to drop me a notecard (the
IMs get capped regularly) ... look for AldoManutio Abruzzo ...

Best you all,

~~D.


On 4/11/08, todd reynolds <toddreyn@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm on there (Kamerin Kokorin) and so is LD community member Dennis Moser,
> but frankly, I've found it difficult to start a community there without
> quite a bit of time spent, and it is HIGHLY addictive for me... Thanks for
> bringing it again to the list, Jeff.
>
> but I did get all my live stuff working so that I could perform 'inworld',
> and Dennis performs at the Princeton University performance space often,
> which is a beautiful space, and Dennis has established a nice audience for
> himself (everytime I've visited to watch)...
>
> time for a new thread for this stuff if we get into it, cuz it's a DOOZY of
> a convo...
>
> Todd
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Jeff Duke <echohead@embarqmail.com> wrote:
>
> > oh yeah, about 6.oo bucks (real cash) a month to join and you get monthly
> stipend and a signup bonus in virtual money. such a deal...
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Duke" <echohead@embarqmail.com>
> >
> > To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> > Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 8:49 AM
> >
> > Subject: Re: Looping venue help
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Here is something. I don't know what the costs are yet, but with my
> looks maybe a cool thing....lol
> > >
> > >
> http://www.reuters.com/article/internetNews/idUSN0930719820080410?feedType=RSS&feedName=internetNews
> > >
> > > further..
> > >
> > > http://secondlife.com/
> > >
> > > And...
> > >
> > > http://www.myspace.com/slimwarriorsl
> > >
> > > Jeff
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "andy butler"
> <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk>
> > > To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 2:18 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Looping venue help
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Chris Sewell wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Never play for free.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > "I don't want to sell my music.
> > > > I'd like to give it away because where I got it, you didn't have to
> pay for it."
> > > > ...Don Van Vliet, 1970
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.12/1373 -
> Release Date: 4/11/2008 9:17 AM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.toddreynolds.com |:
> http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic |:
>  ------------------------------------------------------|:
> 917.576.6166
> todd@toddreynolds.com
> toddreyn@gmail.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 20:44:55 2008
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Subject: Re: empress super delay videos are up now
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I'm interested in how this compares to the Eventide TimeFactor. It is only 
about Ģ30 cheaper and whilst it has a similar feature set, but looks like it 
has a lot less detailled controls (both internally and externally). Also, no 
mention of USB and MIDI, neither of external footswitches - only a pedal 
which sounds like it can only be routed to mix or feedback.

Am I reading it right? does anyone know more?

Ian.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
To: "Loopers Delight" <loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 12:50 AM
Subject: empress super delay videos are up now


very nice and versatile for such a small and compact
unit,its also true bypass(seems to sound really nice)
and seems to have smarter features than the dl4
check out the well explained videos
http://www.empresseffects.com/superdelay.php#videos
cheers
Luis



www.myspace.com/luisangulocom

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 20:51:08 2008
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Subject: Re: empress super delay videos are up now
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Hi,

I'm wondering how this compairs to the TimeFactor. From the basic spec on 
the website, it looks like it has quite a similar feature set. But at just 
about Ģ30 less, it doesn't seem to have USB, MIDI, anything like the degree 
of detailed controlability, external footswitch options... The pedal looks 
like it can only be assigned to micx or feedback - that's poor even in 
comparason with the DL4... And the box is tiny - how you could accurately 
opperate 3 footswitches spaced over 5.8" I don't know.

Do other people know things that I don't?

Ian.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
To: "Loopers Delight" <loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 12:50 AM
Subject: empress super delay videos are up now


very nice and versatile for such a small and compact
unit,its also true bypass(seems to sound really nice)
and seems to have smarter features than the dl4
check out the well explained videos
http://www.empresseffects.com/superdelay.php#videos
cheers
Luis



www.myspace.com/luisangulocom

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 11 21:32:57 2008
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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 17:32:55 -0400
From: "Patrick Suler" <patricksuler@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: OT: bad news, good news, bad news
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I suggest miniDV. Its pretty versatile, looks good, and will probably be
around for at least a few more years. It's also a good compression, and
there's plenty of tools for working with it, i.e. iMovie.

During the day time, I'm a video editor, and miniDV has made my job a lot
easier over the past ten years. So I'm a fan. If you have money burning a
hole in your pocket, JVC and Panasonic make High Def consumer cameras for
about a grand.

-Patrick

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 3:49 PM, Tony K <bigtonyk@gmail.com> wrote:

> Bad news... someone broke into my house and stole all my cameras. :(
>
> Good news... none of my musical equipment was taken.  Cops said it's kids
> looking for small untraceable stuff.  I guess cameras are easy.  Guitars are
> not.
>
> Bad news... my video camera was a Sony Digital8 which is a dead format and
> nobody makes D8 cameras anymore.  I've already started the E-Bay watch so I
> can at least get something I can transfer all my old tapes from.  What are
> people's thoughts on the 'new' video formats?  HDD?  DVD? MemStick?
>
>
> --
> -==-=-=-
> Tony

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I suggest miniDV. Its pretty versatile, looks good, and will probably be around for at least a few more years. It&#39;s also a good compression, and there&#39;s plenty of tools for working with it, i.e. iMovie.<br><br>During the day time, I&#39;m a video editor, and miniDV has made my job a lot easier over the past ten years. So I&#39;m a fan. If you have money burning a hole in your pocket, JVC and Panasonic make High Def consumer cameras for about a grand.<br>
<br>-Patrick<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 3:49 PM, Tony K &lt;<a href="mailto:bigtonyk@gmail.com">bigtonyk@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Bad news... someone broke into my house and stole all my cameras. :(<br><br>Good news... none of my musical equipment was taken.&nbsp; Cops said it&#39;s kids looking for small untraceable stuff.&nbsp; I guess cameras are easy.&nbsp; Guitars are not.<br>

<br>Bad news... my video camera was a Sony Digital8 which is a dead format and nobody makes D8 cameras anymore.&nbsp; I&#39;ve already started the E-Bay watch so I can at least get something I can transfer all my old tapes from.&nbsp; What are people&#39;s thoughts on the &#39;new&#39; video formats?&nbsp; HDD?&nbsp; DVD? MemStick?&nbsp; <br>

<br><br>-- <br>-==-=-=- <br><font color="#888888">Tony
</font></blockquote></div><br>

------=_Part_17471_4475559.1207949575754--

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As much as I love tape, I think miniDV is pretty much on its way out. Its
not as practical as the new memory card cameras. There are actually some
great advantages with these new disk camcorders, like pointing and shooting
without having to wait for mechanics. Sorry to hear about the theft, those
boneheads need to be caught.

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 2:32 PM, Patrick Suler <patricksuler@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I suggest miniDV. Its pretty versatile, looks good, and will probably be
> around for at least a few more years. It's also a good compression, and
> there's plenty of tools for working with it, i.e. iMovie.
>
> During the day time, I'm a video editor, and miniDV has made my job a lot
> easier over the past ten years. So I'm a fan. If you have money burning a
> hole in your pocket, JVC and Panasonic make High Def consumer cameras for
> about a grand.
>
> -Patrick
>
> On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 3:49 PM, Tony K <bigtonyk@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Bad news... someone broke into my house and stole all my cameras. :(
> >
> > Good news... none of my musical equipment was taken.  Cops said it's
> > kids looking for small untraceable stuff.  I guess cameras are easy.
> > Guitars are not.
> >
> > Bad news... my video camera was a Sony Digital8 which is a dead format
> > and nobody makes D8 cameras anymore.  I've already started the E-Bay watch
> > so I can at least get something I can transfer all my old tapes from.  What
> > are people's thoughts on the 'new' video formats?  HDD?  DVD? MemStick?
> >
> >
> > --
> > -==-=-=-
> > Tony
>
>
>

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As much as I love tape, I think miniDV is pretty much on its way out. Its not as practical as the new memory card cameras. There are actually some great advantages with these new disk camcorders, like pointing and shooting without having to wait for mechanics. Sorry to hear about the theft, those boneheads need to be caught.<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 2:32 PM, Patrick Suler &lt;<a href="mailto:patricksuler@gmail.com">patricksuler@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">I suggest miniDV. Its pretty versatile, looks good, and will probably be around for at least a few more years. It&#39;s also a good compression, and there&#39;s plenty of tools for working with it, i.e. iMovie.<br>
<br>During the day time, I&#39;m a video editor, and miniDV has made my job a lot easier over the past ten years. So I&#39;m a fan. If you have money burning a hole in your pocket, JVC and Panasonic make High Def consumer cameras for about a grand.<br>
<br>-Patrick<br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 3:49 PM, Tony K &lt;<a href="mailto:bigtonyk@gmail.com" target="_blank">bigtonyk@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">Bad news... someone broke into my house and stole all my cameras. :(<br><br>Good news... none of my musical equipment was taken.&nbsp; Cops said it&#39;s kids looking for small untraceable stuff.&nbsp; I guess cameras are easy.&nbsp; Guitars are not.<br>
<br>Bad news... my video camera was a Sony Digital8 which is a dead format and nobody makes D8 cameras anymore.&nbsp; I&#39;ve already started the E-Bay watch so I can at least get something I can transfer all my old tapes from.&nbsp; What are people&#39;s thoughts on the &#39;new&#39; video formats?&nbsp; HDD?&nbsp; DVD? MemStick?&nbsp; <br>
<br><br>-- <br>-==-=-=- <br><font color="#888888">Tony </font></blockquote></div><br></blockquote></div><br>

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From: Tony K
> What are people's thoughts on the 'new' video formats?  HDD?  DVD? 
> MemStick?

Invariably tape is still king in non-ultra-pro markets.  HD on MiniDV is 
obtainable by as little as Ģ650 UK (which is probably, minus the draconian 
black-hole taxes and tariffs, quite a lot less in the US).  As far as I know 
DVD/stick cams are using compression of some kind, which could make for 
trouble in future days when remastering for The New Format, whatever it will 
be by then.  As far as HD goes I think the camcorder and other markets are 
still shaking the fleas off from the HD-BD format wars, and within a year 
prices will become more reasonable.  Unless Sony wants to jack up their 
royalty fee of course.

Duncan?  What's your take on this level of camcorder media?

I'm deciding right now between a Canon MD235 and a Panasonic NV-GS90EB-S, 
both of them Mini-DV.  The Panasonic I suspect will take the cake, but I 
love Canon's internal menuing as it really tends to take the work out of 
using said appliance.  Gonna test drive this weekend if I get a chance after 
the Big Anonymous-Critics Worldwide Protests tomorrow (see 
http://www.enturbulation.org).  London's Tottenham Court Road can be a good 
place to handle the goods, as well as get emergency hardware replacements 
and picket dangerous cults.

SP Goodman
The Usually Right "Reverend" Norle Enturbulata DDT, DTS, OOD
*
http://www.flickr.com/photos/enturbulata

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 12 00:35:15 2008
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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 17:35:13 -0700
From: "Nic Roozeboom" <nicroozeboom@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: OT: Traveler Guitars?
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Possibly for the classico's on this list ... I travel with this thing all
the time so I maintain my practice during biz or family trips:

     http://www.miranda-tech.com/

The nice thing is you put it together in less than a minute and its shape
becomes ergonomically nearly equivalent to a classical guitar. The
wrong-side tuners are just a question of getting used to. I play it
acoustically (i.e. without headphones) when it's quiet enough, or with
headphones in noisier environs. The sound from the headphone is a bit dry
but fed through effects can be made to sound very nice.

I've taken it on some pretty small aircraft, never had to check it. Plenty
of curiosity at security check though...

Nic


http://www.fractal-continuum.com
http://www.cdbaby.com/all/fractal
http://www.myspace.com/fractalcontinuum
http://www.myspace.com/nicroozeboom
http://fractal.bebo.com/

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Possibly for the classico&#39;s on this list ... I travel with this thing all the time so I maintain my practice during biz or family trips:<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href="http://www.miranda-tech.com/">http://www.miranda-tech.com/</a><br>
<br>The nice thing is you put it together in less than a minute and its shape becomes ergonomically nearly equivalent to a classical guitar. The wrong-side tuners are just a question of getting used to. I play it acoustically (i.e. without headphones) when it&#39;s quiet enough, or with headphones in noisier environs. The sound from the headphone is a bit dry but fed through effects can be made to sound very nice.<br>
<br>I&#39;ve taken it on some pretty small aircraft, never had to check it. Plenty of curiosity at security check though...<br><br>Nic<br><br><br><a href="http://www.fractal-continuum.com">http://www.fractal-continuum.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.cdbaby.com/all/fractal">http://www.cdbaby.com/all/fractal</a><br><a href="http://www.myspace.com/fractalcontinuum">http://www.myspace.com/fractalcontinuum</a><br><a href="http://www.myspace.com/nicroozeboom">http://www.myspace.com/nicroozeboom</a><br>
<a href="http://fractal.bebo.com/">http://fractal.bebo.com/</a>

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Whoa! I've searched dozens of times for "headless nylon-string" and 
"travel classical" and never saw this fella. It's pricier than what I 
need it for at the moment, but if I really needed to leave my full-body 
nylon-string at home for a serious tour this looks like an excellent 
alternative, and is a lot shorter than the Soloette which has the same 
headless w/ detachable wings concept. The nylon-string version even has 
big white flamenco tap plates you can plug in - awesome. thanks for the 
review.

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com

> Possibly for the classico's on this list ... I travel with this thing 
> all the time so I maintain my practice during biz or family trips:
>
>      http://www.miranda-tech.com/
>
> The nice thing is you put it together in less than a minute and its 
> shape becomes ergonomically nearly equivalent to a classical guitar. 
> The wrong-side tuners are just a question of getting used to. I play 
> it acoustically (i.e. without headphones) when it's quiet enough, or 
> with headphones in noisier environs. The sound from the headphone is a 
> bit dry but fed through effects can be made to sound very nice.
>
> I've taken it on some pretty small aircraft, never had to check it. 
> Plenty of curiosity at security check though...
>
> Nic

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 12 05:10:52 2008
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     Thanks Todd, Rick, David, and all the others who've contributed to this
oh-so-very-interesting subject.

     As Rick so succinctly pointed out, the musical world in the US has changed dramatically over
the last few decades.  Methinks that, on a commercial level at least, that the Music Industry has
choked and crippled the life of the working musician.  We all have heard (or experienced)
countless sordid stories of manipulation and exploitation by record labels, club owners, managers,
etc.  An example via a friend of mine who has played in a steel drum band in the streets of
Seattle and touring around the country since 1985, he has seen the band go from a fairly
comfortable living (of course this means living frugally), to each band member having to take on
various outside jobs just to make ends meet.  He tells me that the post 9-11 world we live in has
tightened everyone's pocketbook.

     I myself am a teacher of children.  I work at a local Middle School in the after-school
program teaching African Marimba Ensemble as well as marimba building in the wood shop.  And I
make a whopping $17/hour... less than most teachers.  Fortunately, I make quite a bit more than
that when I do my carpentry work.  I don’t regret any of this.  The poor state of the Music
Industry, the low pay that teachers get, the lack of acknowledgement or respect that our society
offers musicians, none of this.  

     In a twist on what has been said before, my favourite phrase is “I’ll play for free but you
have to pay me to schlep…”, thus offering the innocent bystander a look into the world of a
musician.  The funny part about that is how much I really feel that sentiment.  I love playing for
other people.  At the same time, it’s a lot of work to rehearse, schlep instruments, organize
gigs, haggle for money, THAT’S what I feel I should be getting paid for.  

     And the next time anyone tells me how much great publicity I will get for playing their gig
for free… I’m going to charge them $10 just for saying that.  And if they insist that it’s true,
I’ll charge them another $10.  Then say that it’s probably the most money I’ll ever make from
doing a free gig for them.  :)

     I have a 9 piece African marimba ensemble in Seattle.  Some of my band members live 90
minutes away, others live on various islands in the Puget Sound.  We totaled it up one day, it
takes about $125 for petrol and ferry tickets just for the whole band to make it to one rehearsal.
 Now, if you want me to play for free, are you willing to pay our expenses?  Like for two
rehearsals plus getting to the gig?  $375 gets you a free gig.  Anything less comes directly out
of our pockets.  That being said, nobody in this band is doing it for the money.  Neither do any
of us get paid.  And oftentimes we all decide to do a gig for ‘free’, meaning we’ll put up that
transport money ourselves.  I build and maintain all the instruments, plus arrange all the music
and run the rehearsals, load and unload the van, maintain the van, etc.  Whatever money we do
make, goes into a band fund to make CD’s, or purchase a few odd bits of recording gear or
whatever.  None of us ever get paid anything.

     And I have absolutely no complaints.  The music is so incredibly satisfying to play, it gives
so much to all of us.  I just feel so lucky to have found my way into this particular world of
music.

     I do still haggle for money when we do gigs.  I’ve lost a few gigs because we were too
expensive.  Most of the time this is a good thing because when someone takes us too much for
granted, the gig will turn out awful as well.

     For anyone interested enough to look into my world of African Marimba, our MySpace page is:

     http://profile.myspace.com/nyamuziwamarimba

     In the world of Looping, this is another story entirely for me as I’ve yet to do a
significant looping gig, certainly not one I’ve gotten paid for.  I play keyboards and work
improvisationally with one or two other musicians at a time.  The music I play comes from a place
deep within.  Or perhaps 'deep without'.  Most of what we’ve done has taken place in the studio. 
This I enjoy immensely as well.  Every once in a while, the studio tapes will be edited down to a
CD release.  I pass them out to friends as often as I can.

     I’m not one to try and sell my music.  I don’t have the heart for it.  Nor do I want to hire
someone to try and place my music in the commercial world.  It just doesn’t feel right.  You know,
it’s funny, I’ve always heard the phrase “Property is Theft” and never paid it much mind.  The
older I get, the more I find myself agreeing with the statement.  I’d even take it one step
further and say “Intellectual Property is Theft”, perhaps what our friend Mr. Von Vliet was trying
to say.  I realize that this sentiment may put me at odds with many of my peers.  I’m not sure
what to say about that other than that’s the way it goes…  I personally do not believe in owning
any of the music that passes through me.  That doesn’t mean that I won’t sell CD’s, as I’m being
paid for all the hard work that goes into bringing that little piece of plastic into this world,
not the summoning of the muse.


     David Gans writes:
<<<    Every one of us in this bidness watches in horror as profoundly unworthy artists prosper
while genius and innovation go begging. There is no justice, and it's damn hard to get any.  I
don't see much point in raging about it.>>>


     I don’t quite see things this way.  I do not watch the above scenario in horror, rather with
interest and compassion.  This is after all, the way that the world IS.  In that sense, things are
already perfect as they currently sit.  My own responsibility towards above mentioned lack of
justice is to find a way to dance through it all, with my head above the muck and a smile on my
face.  In that sense, I agree with David, there is not much point in raging about it.  I don’t
suggest that anyone else hold the same things dearly, just that we all find out for ourselves what
it is that IS dear to us, then follow that for the rest of our lives.  How could this make the
world anything but a better place?

     Cheers,

             Stephen












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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 22:25:12 -0700
From: "Art Simon" <simart@gmail.com>
To: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: WOT: (Way off topic) Michael Howell--sublime 70's jazz guitar
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OK, forgive me, this is way off topic.

I just discovered Michael Howell, a jazz guitarist from the seventies
who recorded with hampton hawes, ndugu, bennie maupin, kenneth nash
and others. I'm guessing some others on this list might enjoy this as
much as I do:

http://ileoxumare.blogspot.com/2008/04/michael-howell-in-silence-1974.html
http://ileoxumare.blogspot.com/2008/01/michael-howell-looking-glass-1973.html
-- 
Art Simon
simart@null.net
art.simon.tripod.com
myspace [dot] com/artsimon

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 12 05:41:16 2008
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Subject: Re: EDP repair
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--42fd85c1-5d08-4920-881c-53eedbe6274a
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii

Its' further south, but Pro Tech on Viers Mill in Wheaton, MD (DC metro) does great EDP repair, and the do plenty of mail order. 



In a message dated 04/11/08 15:36:54 Eastern Daylight Time, bethbahia@mac.com writes:
I'm back in Boston with my broken EDP - the output channel doesn't   
work - Does anyone have any thoughts about where I can get it   
repaired?  I am often driving between Boston and NY, so anywhere in   
or between those two cities is good....Thanks.....Beth 

--42fd85c1-5d08-4920-881c-53eedbe6274a
Content-Type: TEXT/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16640" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Its' further south, but Pro Tech on Viers M=
ill in Wheaton, MD (DC metro) does great EDP repair, and the do plenty of ma=
il order. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 04/11/08 15:36:54 Eastern Daylight Time, bethbahia@m=
ac.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV>
<STYLE type=3Dtext/css>
.aolmailheader          {font-size:8pt; color:black; font-family:Arial}
a.aolmailheader:link    {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:=
normal}
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ht:normal}
a.aolmailheader:active  {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:=
normal}
a.aolmailheader:hover   {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:=
normal}
</STYLE>
I'm back in Boston with my broken EDP - the output channel doesn't &nbsp; <B=
R>work - Does anyone have any thoughts about where I can get it &nbsp; <BR>r=
epaired? &nbsp;I am often driving between Boston and NY, so anywhere in &nbs=
p; <BR>or between those two cities is good....Thanks.....Beth <BR><BR></DIV>=
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV CLASS=3D"aol_ad_footer" ID=3D"u10ebbe8a96b549c8a141b686baafdfd5"><FONT=20=
style=3D"color: black; font: normal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;"><HR style=3D"MAR=
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ns & More!</FONT></DIV>
</BODY></HTML>

--42fd85c1-5d08-4920-881c-53eedbe6274a--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 12 06:26:04 2008
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From: paul <phaslem@wightman.ca>
Subject: Re: Attitude
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I also echo that this has been an interesting discussion



>      And the next time anyone tells me how much=20
> great publicity I will get for playing their gig
>for free=85 I=92m going to charge them $10 just for=20
>saying that.  And if they insist that it=92s true,
>I=92ll charge them another $10.  Then say that=20
>it=92s probably the most money I=92ll ever make from
>doing a free gig for them.  :)



I can totally sympathize with your feelings about=20
hearing that phrase "do my free gig and you'll=20
get great publicity"  Pretty much the only thing=20
I've ever gotten from doing free gigs is invitations to do more free gigs.
So now I tell them that at this point in my=20
musical career, I have recorded 8 albums, played=20
on maybe 20 other recordings, toured all over=20
north america, had other people record music I've=20
written... I really don't feel like I need the=20
little bit of publicity that their event will=20
generate, what I need is to start getting paid=20
consistently for my work; and that they would be=20
way further ahead just asking me if I will=20
support their cause. Then I explain that I would=20
normally charge about $500.00 to do a concert=20
like this. So if they'd like me to perform at=20
their benefit for whatever, I'll charge them=20
$500.00 and for every 50 people that come out=20
I'll donate back $100.00, so if they work hard=20
and get 250 people out to the concert they get my=20
fee back as a donation and I get a tax receipt=20
for donating that fee which is essentially what=20
they're asking me to do anyway. These are just=20
hypothetical numbers and I usually scale it to be=20
realistic depending on the expected size of the=20
event etc. By doing this I've been asked to play=20
at a lot fewer free events but the ones that I do=20
play at have been quite successful for all of us.
I've also found that this policy makes people=20
take my work more seriously because it has value.=20
Earlier in my career I used to almost=20
apologetically as for $100.00 to perform and all=20
too often heard back from the organizer that I=20
was a lot better than they were expecting because=20
I was so cheap. It is an unfortunate reality that=20
there is an underlying belief that we generally=20
"get what you pay for" thus free equals pretty ho=20
hum. Wasn't on this list that someone posted a=20
story last year in the Washington Post about the=20
concert violinist that was asked to busk at a=20
busy Subway stop? Seems that only a couple of=20
people stopped to listen at all to the guy who=20
normally was receiving standing ovations in=20
concert halls around the world; the=20
difference.... as the song says "he was playing real good for free"

my two cents


Paul Haslem
www.dulcify.ca



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 12 07:07:27 2008
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>In a twist on what has been said before, my favourite phrase is 
>"I'll play for free but you have to pay me to schlep

I love it!



-- 

David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730
Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
Web site: http://www.dgans.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 12 08:57:49 2008
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Subject: Re: OT: Traveler Guitars?
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Yes, this guitar looks very attractive :-)

> >      http://www.miranda-tech.com/

I actually loved those head-less E-Basses (in the 80ies)? Shame they are not popular anymore...

Buzap
-- 
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 12 09:03:14 2008
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Hi Nic
> 
> I've taken it on some pretty small aircraft, never had to check it. Plenty
> of curiosity at security check though...
Yes, I know that look of disbelief when I have to explain to airport security why I need a dozen harmonicas ;-)
B.
-- 
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 12 09:09:00 2008
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Subject: Re: artists at young age (waay off toipic - was how many loopers)
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Hi Stefan

> How come that most masterpieces are done at youngsters age?...

I like Rainers answer...
What I also think is that every person with a true innovative drive (musician, scientist, writer...) has only just very few really new ideas they contribute to the world.
They are usually expressed fresh & raw at a younger age, then refined & skillfully woven to mastery in the following years.

Buzap
-- 
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Hi Bob

> A limiter isn't required, but sure that you can reach your volume knob if 
> you need to.

Volume knob is no problem. What I'm afraid of is i.e. some feedback or short-circuit suddenly peaking the level. By the time I react my ears would be ruined.

But maybe that fear is unrealistic?

Buzap

-- 
Psst! Geheimtipp: Online Games kostenlos spielen bei den GMX Free Games! 
http://games.entertainment.gmx.net/de/entertainment/games/free

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 12 09:20:05 2008
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Hi Ian

yes, that's exactly waht I mean!

I have no experience if studio type reflectors/absorbers really help in live looping situations.
Buzap
-------- Original--------
> "Ian Popperwell" 
> I use the se Electronics Reflexion Filter in my studio and I know there's
> a 
> new smaller one specifically for instruments,
-- 
Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! 
Ideal für Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 12 10:22:38 2008
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I will be in Lund for a week. I plan to buy guitar amp speaker and a 
FCB1010. A search on the web did not return to much results.

Do you know instrument shops and places (also secondhand) in Lund, Malmö and 
Copenhagen.

Thanks from now

Alper Gadis





From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 12 10:36:23 2008
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Malmo City Guide:
http://www.malmo.com/start.asp

I've been to all those three cities and they all have good stores.
Just ask someone in the street when you get there.

Per


On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 12:21 PM, Gadis <agadis@gawab.com> wrote:
> I will be in Lund for a week. I plan to buy guitar amp speaker and a
> FCB1010. A search on the web did not return to much results.
>
>  Do you know instrument shops and places (also secondhand) in Lund, Malm=
=F6
> and Copenhagen.
>
>  Thanks from now
>
>  Alper Gadis
>


--=20
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com

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I can't remember exactly where but in a couple of days wandering =20
around central Copenhagen I saw 3 or 4 stores. One was definitely on =20
the long pedestrianized area (easy to find) and the other few were =20
very close.

Sorry I can't remember any more!
David


On 12-Apr-08, at 11:21 AM, Gadis wrote:

> I will be in Lund for a week. I plan to buy guitar amp speaker and =20
> a FCB1010. A search on the web did not return to much results.
>
> Do you know instrument shops and places (also secondhand) in Lund, =20
> Malm=F6 and Copenhagen.
>
> Thanks from now
>
> Alper Gadis
>
>
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 12 14:38:44 2008
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Subject: attitude/ree publicity
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   Yeah people will say free publicity,then fail to put the musician's name=
 on any of the promo for the event. At the gig, as soon as you have the cro=
wd warmed up, some attention seeker, will grab a mic and  say "Is this thin=
g on?  ( translation: Listen to how big my voice sounds)We're going to do t=
he raffle now." Which ,if you're foolish enough to allow it ,will drag on a=
nd on.













_________________________________________________________________
Going green? See the top 12 foods to eat organic.
http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.aspx?gid=3D164&ocid=3DT003MSN5=
1N1653A=

--_5c4b0a8f-2d82-4502-be1b-6cc44dc623ff_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
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<html>
<head>
<style>
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma
}
</style>
</head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'>
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Yeah people will say free publicity,then fail to put the m=
usician's name on any of the promo for the event. At the gig, as soon as yo=
u have the crowd warmed up, some attention seeker, will grab a mic and&nbsp=
; say "Is this thing on?&nbsp; ( translation: Listen to how big my voice so=
unds)We're going to do the raffle now." Which ,if you're foolish enough to =
allow it ,will drag on and on.<br><br><br><br><br><br><font face=3D"New Yor=
k,Times New Roman"><br></font><br><br><a href=3D"http://www.brainyquote.com=
/quotes/quotes/l/louisarmst163740.html" target=3D"_blank"></a><br><br><bloc=
kquote><hr><br><blockquote><pre><br></pre></blockquote></blockquote><br /><=
hr />Going green? <a href=3D'http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.a=
spx?gid=3D164&ocid=3DT003MSN51N1653A' target=3D'_new'>See the top 12 foods =
to eat organic.</a></body>
</html>=

--_5c4b0a8f-2d82-4502-be1b-6cc44dc623ff_--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 12 16:27:27 2008
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At 7:38 AM -0700 4/12/08, samba - wrote:
>
>    Yeah people will say free publicity,then fail to put the 
>musician's name on any of the promo for the event. At the gig, as 
>soon as you have the crowd warmed up, some attention seeker, will 
>grab a mic and  say "Is this thing on?  ( translation: Listen to how 
>big my voice sounds)We're going to do the raffle now." Which ,if 
>you're foolish enough to allow it ,will drag on and on.

Oh man, ain't it the truth.

A couple of years ago I was invited to perform at a benefit in a 
beautiful crunchy liberal town north of San Francisco.  I was VERY 
happy to oblige, since I love the town and support the cause 
wholeheartedly.

I got there well before my scheduled start time, only to discover 
that a couple of other acts had been inserted into the program ahead 
of me.  High school kids from the community, that sort of thing.  My 
start time was pushed back by an hour or so, by which time the event 
had been going for several hours and the crowd had thinned 
considerably.

I finally got up there and started to play.  Every every time I 
opened my mouth to sing, my guitar faded away.  Mysterious!  It 
happened again and again.  I thought it might have had to do with the 
batteries in the preamp of my Renaissance.  I replaced them, right 
there on stage with the dwindling audience looking on, and then - 
same problem.

The young guy running the PA acted as though I was some combination 
of stupid and self-important.

Eventually I discovered that the sound system had some sort of "host" 
feature that potted all the other channels down whenever signal was 
present in the main channel.

By then I was too pissed off to continue and most of the audience had 
gone home anyway.

So that's one benefit that wound up costing me something beyond dollars.




-- 

David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730
Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
Web site: http://www.dgans.com

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From: Daryl Shawn <highhorse@mhorse.com>
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Oh my god. I'd have lost my mind...I'm sorry this happened to you...

but MAN would this be one HELL of a practical joke to play on a fellow 
musician. Maybe safest in rehearsal.

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com

> I finally got up there and started to play.  Every every time I opened 
> my mouth to sing, my guitar faded away.  Mysterious!  It happened 
> again and again.  I thought it might have had to do with the batteries 
> in the preamp of my Renaissance.  I replaced them, right there on 
> stage with the dwindling audience looking on, and then - same problem.
>
> The young guy running the PA acted as though I was some combination of 
> stupid and self-important.
>
> Eventually I discovered that the sound system had some sort of "host" 
> feature that potted all the other channels down whenever signal was 
> present in the main channel.
>
> By then I was too pissed off to continue and most of the audience had 
> gone home anyway.
>
> So that's one benefit that wound up costing me something beyond dollars.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 12 16:48:07 2008
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Subject: Re: Attitude
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Quoting S V G <vsyevolod@yahoo.com>:
>
>      And the next time anyone tells me how much great publicity I  =20
> will get for playing their gig
> for free=85 I=92m going to charge them $10 just for saying that.  And if =
=20
>  they insist that it=92s true,
> I=92ll charge them another $10.  Then say that it=92s probably the most  =
=20
> money I=92ll ever make from
> doing a free gig for them.  :)
>
Whenever someone tells me that to provide free music for their event =20
will be "great exposure" for me -- I don't walk away -- I RUN FOR MY =20
LIFE!!!!

-- Kevin

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 12 16:51:08 2008
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From: David <tremendous@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: attitude/"free" publicity
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:53:31 +0100
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As I was reading this I was convinced you were going to say the sound  
guy was being an as*h*le and fading your guitar down as a sign of  
disapproval.

I feel your pain. On stage problems that seem totally illogical and  
will not be solved are the worst.

d.


On 12-Apr-08, at 5:44 PM, Daryl Shawn wrote:

> Oh my god. I'd have lost my mind...I'm sorry this happened to you...
>
> but MAN would this be one HELL of a practical joke to play on a  
> fellow musician. Maybe safest in rehearsal.
>
> Daryl Shawn
> www.swanwelder.com
> www.chinapaintingmusic.com
>
>> I finally got up there and started to play.  Every every time I  
>> opened my mouth to sing, my guitar faded away.  Mysterious!  It  
>> happened again and again.  I thought it might have had to do with  
>> the batteries in the preamp of my Renaissance.  I replaced them,  
>> right there on stage with the dwindling audience looking on, and  
>> then - same problem.
>>
>> The young guy running the PA acted as though I was some  
>> combination of stupid and self-important.
>>
>> Eventually I discovered that the sound system had some sort of  
>> "host" feature that potted all the other channels down whenever  
>> signal was present in the main channel.
>>
>> By then I was too pissed off to continue and most of the audience  
>> had gone home anyway.
>>
>> So that's one benefit that wound up costing me something beyond  
>> dollars.
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 12 17:39:36 2008
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Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 10:39:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: attitude/ree publicity
From: improv@peak.org
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My band does a lot of benefit/activism gigs, and they can run the gamut
from being great experiences to completely dismal. I like the idea of
demanding a fee, and then donating an amount for every 100 audience
members :-)

I played a show the other night (not a benefit, just a club gig) at a club
in Portland, it was my new quartet, and a Portland ambient jazz/breakbeat
group. It was a wednesday night in a club that seems generally kind of
hard to get peole to go to, maybe it's all the wierd music they book.
Anyway, there was virtually nobody there, except the other band had
invited a number of great local players to sit in with them. The stage
area was large enough that both bands could leave all their gear setup for
the whole night, and by the end of the night we were all onstage, 12
players in all, with 6 horns, 2 drummers, keys (me), bass, dj and an MC.
The amazing thing was that the whole thing remained pretty musically
coherent, which in my experience almost never happens in large ensemble
improvs without some sort of a leader/conductor. In this case, everyone
was just listening, and seemed to tacitly agree to underplay rather than
overplay. I don't know if this is coincidental or not, but there were no
guitarists on the gig, that might explain it, though :-). It was an
amazing experience. My band made $50, which pretty much covered gas. On a
$$$ level, it was a complete wash, but as a musical experience, wonderful.
After this, and re-reading the Sun Ra biography, I really want to start an
avant big band.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 12 17:41:13 2008
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From: Beth Bahia Cohen <bethbahia@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Attitude
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Whenever someone says that my playing for free or for very little at  
their event would be good exposure, I say "One can die of exposure."

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 12 18:00:14 2008
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I've also heard that "exposure is the leading cause of death among  
eskimos."

JF

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 12 18:12:22 2008
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At 11:44 AM -0500 4/12/08, Daryl Shawn wrote:
>Oh my god. I'd have lost my mind...I'm sorry this happened to you...
>
>but MAN would this be one HELL of a practical joke to play on a 
>fellow musician. Maybe safest in rehearsal.

Rehearsal, yes.  Gig, you die!



-- 

David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730
Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
Web site: http://www.dgans.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 12 18:12:24 2008
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At 5:53 PM +0100 4/12/08, David wrote:
>As I was reading this I was convinced you were going to say the 
>sound guy was being an as*h*le and fading your guitar down as a sign 
>of disapproval.

The sound guy was convinced it was my guitar and treated me like an 
idiot.  Once it was clear it was the fault of the machine, he made 
himself scarce.



-- 

David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730
Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
Web site: http://www.dgans.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 12 20:14:02 2008
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Subject: Re: WOT: (Way off Topic) Music Instrument Shops in Lund, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Malm=F6?= and Copenhagen
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 20:40:19 +0100
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Hej Alper,

In Copenhagen you have: Aage Jensen, Supersound (both downtown),
WoodSound, and Basslab has a lot of 2nd hand stuff. WoodSound and
Basslab are located at N=F8rrebro.

Good luck and have a great trip.

All the best,
Magnus

Den 12/4/2008, skrev "Gadis" <agadis@gawab.com>:

>I will be in Lund for a week. I plan to buy guitar amp speaker and a=20
>FCB1010. A search on the web did not return to much results.
>
>Do you know instrument shops and places (also secondhand) in Lund, Malm=F6 a=
nd=20
>Copenhagen.
>
>Thanks from now
>
>Alper Gadis
>
>
>
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 12 21:54:01 2008
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Subject: Reverse Delays - how do they work?
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I just spent some time thinking about reverse delays, which several boxes do
offer (among them, to take a few devices used often among loopers, the Line6
DL4, the TC Electronics D2, the Boss DD20 and the EH SMM w/ Hazari).

So here's my take (without listening to these devices) what is possible how
to implement that effect - and I'd like your ideas what are the preferred
implementations, and wheter there are other ways to reach this.

In a normal delay, it's rather simple: taking feedback aside for one moment,
and assuming an ideal delay (i.e. what goes in does come out sometime
later), it's like a conveyor belt. You put the things (your playing) on one
side, and after a finite (and constant) time, it comes out at the other end.
Another (more audio-tech) analogy is the endless tape, where you record, the
tape goes round, gets played back and immediately recorded again.

This approach will not work if we want a reverse delay, because the things
need to come out in different order than the order they were put in. So how
can you do it?

APPROACH ONE: Turning around
Again taking the conveyor belt analogy, after the conveyor belt is full, we
can simply turn it around and reverse the direction of travel. If we do
feedback in a normal way (i.e. part of the output gets put on the conveyor
belt again), we will end up with the contents playing back
reverse-forward-reverse-... etc.
The problem here: how do we know when to turn around the conveyor belt? If
we just do it after the belt is full (i.e. it has run from beginning to
end), our LTI system turns into being non-time-variant and for that reason,
very hard to guess in its behaviour by the user. We could use a trigger to
tell the delay when we start to fill the belt. With that, the delay between
the trigger and the perceived beginning of delay playback is just the delay
length.
I believe (due to the availability of a trigger threshold), this is the way
the D2 works.

APPROACH TWO: Running two ways
I will take the endless tape analogy here. Assume the tape is stationary and
the heads are moving, and the behaviour stays the same (according to
Einstein). Now ignore for one moment the problem of heads getting into each
others' way. Now let's move the recording head in one direction and the
playback head in the other direction. Having feedback according to the
original meaning of the word (feeding back the output to the input) would
also give us the reverse-forward effect. However, we can replace that with
an approach which only erase the tape partially. With that, everything in
the delay output is always reverse, and never reverse-of-reverse.
Note that with that approach, the perceived length of the delay is cut in
half.
Also, the "when to turn the belt" problem gets replaced by the "when do the
heads meet" problem.
Due to the fact that in the DL4, the reverse delay time is half that of all
other delays, I believe it uses this approach.


Now...what other approaches are there? Is there one that is time-invariant
without a trigger (and causal)? Is there another possibility? Any thoughts?
Are you using reverse delays at all?

	Rainer

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 12 22:32:37 2008
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From: "Per Boysen" <perboysen@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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Hi,

I use reverse delays quite a lot. But I prefer to reverse a loop and
overdub into it in reverse mode to make the reversed audio part of the
straight loop. I do this both with beat synced quantized "tape
reversing points" and totally unquantized. When using no quantiztion
for reversing the loop's direction I use to wrap it up with a realign
command to bring back the loop I'm messing with into the correct
timing with regard to other simultaneously playing loops.

If talking pure audio effect reversed delay I'm using that as well.
One particularly cool patch is one I made in the TC Fireworx I
unfortunately was forced to sell one year ago. This patch listened to
MIDI Clock input (coming from my looper) and also to the audio input
by an envelope follower function. When the envelope follower on the
input detected incoming audio (that's me playing) it waits for a
quantized time value (depending on the tempo this is a quarter of a
bar, a half bar or a full bar). On the cusp of the quantize period it
starts playing back the one quantize period length audio buffer
reversed. Unfortunately the FireworX didn't have CPU power enough to
use two such processes in parallel and with inverted quantize periods
- that would have been awesome! If working in software you could set
that up though, since todays laptops are way more powerful.

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 12 23:23:20 2008
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Subject: AW: Reverse Delays - how do they work?
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> One particularly cool patch is one I made in the TC Fireworx 
> I unfortunately was forced to sell one year ago. This patch 

You still have to get over that loss of the FireworX, don't you? *g*
All kidding aside, the FireworX, together with the Clavia MicroModular is
definitely the most flexible effects processor I have (or have had). And I
believe that is true for everyone among us except for Luca Formentini and
his H8000FW.

> buffer reversed. Unfortunately the FireworX didn't have CPU 
> power enough to use two such processes in parallel and with 
> inverted quantize periods

Actually, the FireworX in my opinion only has one big flaw, and that is lack
of DSP power. There were so many occasions where I was working on a patch
(and a pretty normal one at that) where I just had to decide whether I could
get that slight distortion after the feedback or the moving filter after the
chorus...not possible to do both.
An unfortunate design decision by TC - if it wasn't for that wimpy
processor, I would've been using it a lot more.

> - that would have been awesome! If working in software you 
> could set that up though, since todays laptops are way more powerful.

So why don't you do it?

	Rainer

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 12 23:47:43 2008
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From: "Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill" <rs@moinlabs.de>
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Subject: AW: Looping venue help
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> >> plays for a living. You could take it even further and say=20
> that when=20
> >> you play for fee, but don't really need the money, you are=20
> doing that=20
> >> same. It all depends on your political and
> >
> > This is a very dangerous line of argument. It's called=20
> communism and=20
> > socialism, and leads to dictatorship, torture, mass murder,=20
> economic=20
> > breakdown and in the final outcome, to a world where there isn't a=20
> > place for your crazy stuff (nor for your well-paying day job).
>=20
> What's wrong with those things? Just kidding. :)  Yes, I=20
> wasn't advocating the viewpoint, just calling it out as a=20
> possible line of thought.  I hope freedom of thought and=20
> expression is acceptable on the list. There are many flavors=20
> of fascism...intellectual being one of them. A line of=20
> argument and idea is one thing (sacred, imo) and should be=20
> allowed to stand. Action is quite another animal.

Sorry Krispen, I did not want to challenge your right to hold and =
express your own free thoughts. I found that any ways of limiting the =
individual's right for self-expression (economically, artistically or =
regarding beliefs) and a steering or economic bias in these matters lead =
to desastrous results, either because the people responsible for it fail =
to think it through properly, or (and that's a mathematical OR) the =
people electing them fail to do so.

Was Karl Marx responsible for Stalin's mass murder? His beliefs =
logically led to a mighty government which was not democratically =
elected (as democracy, if it would work, would carry out the wishes of =
the majority, which, in a worst-case scenario, would be something =
against almost half of the population, so a democratic government would =
not represent the interests of all citizens), which in turn lead to =
Stalin and Mao.


On a completely different subject, one of the things mentioned in this =
big discussion was the decline of performance possibilities for =
musicians. This, however, is just contrary to what I experience (in the =
small world around me) in the last few years. (the following is a =
collection of experiences and observations with no statistically =
undermined point!)
While this may or may not have to do with the internet piracy issue, I =
get the impression that people go to live concerts more. Prices for =
tickets for big acts  have increased massively in the last few years. If =
you set the ticket price for a Meat Loaf concert a friend visited of =
=E2=82=AC70 in relation to Miles Davis' last tour (for which I paid =
DM50, roughly =E2=82=AC25), or one of Dizzy Gillespie's last tours =
(=E2=82=AC13), this becomes rather obvious.

But for those lower-budget acts, concert possibilities are increasing. =
As people increasingly visit live concerts, they also seem to want more =
of that at typical party occasions. In the club scene (if it's in the =
"motto" realm, like metal parties), it has become usual to have one or =
two live acts, mostly regional ones, but I've also been to low-budget =
metal parties with acts from Mexico.

Another thing: all the time of my life when I've been to corporate =
parties before (not that I go to those many), up to 2006 there has =
always been a DJ. I've been to two such events in 2007, and both had a =
live act...of course those were typical party cover acts, but I believe =
it's a start!
(And btw, I have great respect for those genre#-crossing cover acts, =
which at the request of a long-haired guy in cuttails in the audience =
can spontaneously move from Weather Girls to AC/DC).

	Rainer

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 12 23:50:09 2008
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> I would be delighted to participate.  Honored, even.
> 
> For me it has been a matter of scheduling.  And I fear it 

One of the experiences of the life as a (porfessional or amateur, it doesn't
matter) musician: no matter how few gig possibilities you have: they are
always going to conflict.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 13 03:53:17 2008
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> And I
> believe that is true for everyone among us except for Luca  
> Formentini and
> his H8000FW.

I'd be interested in hearing how he uses his H8000. I have one also,  
but it's not FW.

Jeff

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 13 04:55:50 2008
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Subject: RE: AW: Reverse Delays - how do they work?
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2008 21:55:51 -0700
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Hi Jeff,  how are you using it?  Doing any surround work?

Qua


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Shirkey [mailto:jcshirke@midway.uchicago.edu] 
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 8:56 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: AW: Reverse Delays - how do they work?


> And I
> believe that is true for everyone among us except for Luca  
> Formentini and
> his H8000FW.

I'd be interested in hearing how he uses his H8000. I have one also,  
but it's not FW.

Jeff

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 13 06:48:48 2008
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please keep 5/23 open for a very special private party.  drop me a
line for more details.

-- 
     /t

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From christanbell@roger.com  Sun Apr 13 07:22:14 2008
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FROM: THE DESK OF MR.CHRISTAIN BELL
CHRISTAIN CHAMBERS AND SOLICITORS
130 BANK ANTHONY WAY IKEJA GRA LAGOS

Dear Partner
 
Good day, firstly, I apologize for sending you this sensitive information via e-mail instead of a Certified mail/Post-mail. This is due to the  urgency and importance of the information. I humbly crave your indulgence to read this e-mail with all seriousness of purpose because this project is based on Trust,confidentiality and sincerity of purpose in  order to have an acceptable meeting of the minds. I am a fifty two(52)years old established lawyer. My name is Mr. Christain Bell,a solicitor
 and  personal attorney to an expatriate and a  consultant with an American Oil company,PENNZOIL (Now deceased) He died in the Tsunami disaster on 26th december 2004 while on vacation in  Thailand.
 
Six years ago, My Client successfully executed a contract for the  Federal Government of Nigerian {FGN} worth US$18.3 million dollars. A part  payment of USD9.million dollars was paid to my client, while the balance of USD9.3 million Dollars was still unpaid before my client died in the Indian Ocean Tsunami disaster. However, all my efforts to locate the possible next of kin proved abortive. Untill his sudden demise, He was not married and was 44years old.
 
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I await your urgent reply with your personal telephone/fax number for effective communication and oral clarification on how to proceed next.
 
Sincerely yours,
 
Mr.Christain Bell
{Legal Adviser}

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 13 08:40:43 2008
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On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 1:23 AM, Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill
<rs@moinlabs.de> wrote:
> >  If working in software you
>  > could set that up though, since todays laptops are way more powerful.
>
>  So why don't you do it?
>
>         Rainer


Oh, I do! I was just saying that I prefer using reversed sounds in
loopers, not that I don't use them in delays! I snagged the idea for
some specific patches from the FireworX but these days I do all my
effect processing in software.

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 13 09:52:49 2008
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hi Rainer.

My favourite implementation of reverse (other than the loop situation) is
the one on the EH SMM + Hazari.
The pedal does nothing till you hold down the footswitch, then it plays back
what you just did (for up to 6s).
The regular reverse delay on the SMM( as you will have noticed) has some kind 
of a trigger combined with the programmable delay length, but I didn't figure
it out yet exactly.

The type of reverse with continuous record and play in opposite directions 
can be got out of the Behringer Virtualizer, using the "Sampler" patch.
It's glitchy when the 2 "heads" cross, but gives an idea of the effect.

Most obvious implementation would be a kind of ducking delay, which waits for you
stop playing then starts playback.

andy butler  

  

Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill wrote:
> I just spent some time thinking about reverse delays, which several boxes do
> offer (among them, to take a few devices used often among loopers, the Line6
> DL4, the TC Electronics D2, the Boss DD20 and the EH SMM w/ Hazari).
> 
> So here's my take (without listening to these devices) what is possible how
> to implement that effect - and I'd like your ideas what are the preferred
> implementations, and wheter there are other ways to reach this.
> 
> In a normal delay, it's rather simple: taking feedback aside for one moment,
> and assuming an ideal delay (i.e. what goes in does come out sometime
> later), it's like a conveyor belt. You put the things (your playing) on one
> side, and after a finite (and constant) time, it comes out at the other end.
> Another (more audio-tech) analogy is the endless tape, where you record, the
> tape goes round, gets played back and immediately recorded again.
> 
> This approach will not work if we want a reverse delay, because the things
> need to come out in different order than the order they were put in. So how
> can you do it?
> 
> APPROACH ONE: Turning around
> Again taking the conveyor belt analogy, after the conveyor belt is full, we
> can simply turn it around and reverse the direction of travel. If we do
> feedback in a normal way (i.e. part of the output gets put on the conveyor
> belt again), we will end up with the contents playing back
> reverse-forward-reverse-... etc.
> The problem here: how do we know when to turn around the conveyor belt? If
> we just do it after the belt is full (i.e. it has run from beginning to
> end), our LTI system turns into being non-time-variant and for that reason,
> very hard to guess in its behaviour by the user. We could use a trigger to
> tell the delay when we start to fill the belt. With that, the delay between
> the trigger and the perceived beginning of delay playback is just the delay
> length.
> I believe (due to the availability of a trigger threshold), this is the way
> the D2 works.
> 
> APPROACH TWO: Running two ways
> I will take the endless tape analogy here. Assume the tape is stationary and
> the heads are moving, and the behaviour stays the same (according to
> Einstein). Now ignore for one moment the problem of heads getting into each
> others' way. Now let's move the recording head in one direction and the
> playback head in the other direction. Having feedback according to the
> original meaning of the word (feeding back the output to the input) would
> also give us the reverse-forward effect. However, we can replace that with
> an approach which only erase the tape partially. With that, everything in
> the delay output is always reverse, and never reverse-of-reverse.
> Note that with that approach, the perceived length of the delay is cut in
> half.
> Also, the "when to turn the belt" problem gets replaced by the "when do the
> heads meet" problem.
> Due to the fact that in the DL4, the reverse delay time is half that of all
> other delays, I believe it uses this approach.
> 
> 
> Now...what other approaches are there? Is there one that is time-invariant
> without a trigger (and causal)? Is there another possibility? Any thoughts?
> Are you using reverse delays at all?
> 
> 	Rainer
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 13 10:48:38 2008
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Line? :)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Ritchford" <tom@swirly.com>
To: "Tom Ritchford" <tom@swirly.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 7:48 AM
Subject: 5/23: private party


> please keep 5/23 open for a very special private party.  drop me a
> line for more details.
> 
> -- 
>     /t
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 13 15:26:51 2008
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wish it was in cali...

----- Original Message ----
From: Tom Ritchford <tom@swirly.com>
To: Tom Ritchford <tom@swirly.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 11:48:46 PM
Subject: 5/23: private party

please keep 5/23 open for a very special private party.  drop me a
line for more details.

-- 
     /t






__________________________________________________
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<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">wish it was in cali...<br><br><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">----- Original Message ----<br>From: Tom Ritchford &lt;tom@swirly.com&gt;<br>To: Tom Ritchford &lt;tom@swirly.com&gt;<br>Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 11:48:46 PM<br>Subject: 5/23: private party<br><br>
please keep 5/23 open for a very special private party.&nbsp; drop me a<br>line for more details.<br><br>-- <br>&nbsp; &nbsp;  /t<br><br></div><br></div></div><br>__________________________________________________<br>Do You Yahoo!?<br>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around <br>http://mail.yahoo.com </body></html>
--0-2071703617-1208100011=:57327--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 13 16:59:01 2008
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Where is it?


At 8:20 AM -0700 4/13/08, margaret noble wrote:
>wish it was in cali...
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Tom Ritchford <tom@swirly.com>
>To: Tom Ritchford <tom@swirly.com>
>Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 11:48:46 PM
>Subject: 5/23: private party
>
>please keep 5/23 open for a very special private party.  drop me a
>line for more details.




-- 

David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730
Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
Web site: http://www.dgans.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 13 17:24:08 2008
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Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 13:24:06 -0400
From: "Todd Pafford" <calenlas@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: R.i.p mike battle
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Corrected Link to the interview
<http://loopersdelight.com/musings/Mike_Battle/Mike_Battle.html>

May he find peace wherever he is.
Todd

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 12:42 AM,  <Leew3803@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Got news today Mike Battle died (inventor of the echoplex)
>
> http://www.tubeplex.com/mikebattle.html
>
>
> R.I.P MIKE
>
>
> http://www.loopersdelight.com/musing...ke_Battle.html
>
>
> ________________________________
> Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.

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From: stevenguerrero <mesquamacus@yahoo.com>
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Very Cryptic. Will there be masks?

--- Tom Ritchford <tom@swirly.com> wrote:

> please keep 5/23 open for a very special private
> party.  drop me a
> line for more details.
> 
> -- 
>      /t
> 
> 


 
  www.myspace.com/mesqua
  www.reverbnation.com/stevenguerrero


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

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-- 
6.8 Million Dollars has been credited in your favor,Contact Mrs.Linda
Hills(misslindahillkay@yahoo.com.hk)With the following,Name:Delivery
Address: Age: Occupation: and Phone:Regards. Sen.David Mark.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 13 18:21:26 2008
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We haven't finalized that part but I'd hardly be surprised.  I wasn't
intending to be so cryptic, but now that I was.... :-D

On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 1:39 PM, stevenguerrero <mesquamacus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Very Cryptic. Will there be masks?
>
>
>
>  --- Tom Ritchford <tom@swirly.com> wrote:
>
>  > please keep 5/23 open for a very special private
>  > party.  drop me a
>  > line for more details.
>  >
>  > --
>  >      /t
>  >
>  >
>
>
>
>   www.myspace.com/mesqua
>   www.reverbnation.com/stevenguerrero
>
>
>
>
>  __________________________________________________
>  Do You Yahoo!?
>  Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>  http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>



-- 
 /t

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Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 15:08:43 -0400
From: "Jim Goodin" <jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Second Life as a Paying Venue
Cc: todd@toddreynolds.com
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Dennis I'm just now seeing this.  Is this (SL) different from a web
cast or podcast, is it in theory 'live'?  We [Daryl] and I were at one
point in that we are remote more than live in person thus far, were
looking for something like what this sounds like for Chinapainting
performances and have since settled for doing a  monthly podcast
(http://chinapainting.podomatic.com) series..

It sounds a bit like one of my son's Habo Hotel things but audio only?

Anyhow sounds like it might be an option when the actual live market
can be lean.

Thanks for clueing me in...

Jim Goodin
www.jimgoodinmusic.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com

On 4/11/08, Dennis Moser <sinsofmachaut@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks, Todd ...
>
>  Yes, Second Life CAN actually be a good regular gig and can provide a
>  few extra hundred bucks per month for playing while wearing your
>  pajamas, not smelling like stale beer and smoke when you finish and
>  not having to worry about lugging your gear up 4 flights of stairs or
>  having it ripped off from your car.
>
>  But it's like any other gig in that you have to take it seriously and
>  work hard at giving your best to the audience.
>
>  Last year I think I did over 200 concerts; this year, I've scaled back
>  considerably, but only because I have some real life projects that are
>  keeping my hands full. I have a regular monthly concert series that I
>  am doing this year at one particular venue (Bibi's Sky Castle, for the
>  cognescenti!) and will probably add a couple of extra performances
>  through the rest of the year.
>
>  There are not many folks who are self-professed Loopers performing in
>  SL; don't know why and maybe it isn't important.
>
>  But if you want to share your music and are willling to spending some
>  time developing a highly appreciative audience, then you should
>  consider it. It always amazes me to see the spikes in downloads and CD
>  sales after each performance, with more of them coming from Europe and
>  the UK than the US ... what is it they say about a prophet not being
>  appreciated in their own land?
>
>  If you do sign on to Second Life, feel free to drop me a notecard (the
>  IMs get capped regularly) ... look for AldoManutio Abruzzo ...
>
>  Best you all,
>
>  ~~D.
>
>
>  On 4/11/08, todd reynolds <toddreyn@gmail.com> wrote:
>  > I'm on there (Kamerin Kokorin) and so is LD community member Dennis Moser,
>  > but frankly, I've found it difficult to start a community there without
>  > quite a bit of time spent, and it is HIGHLY addictive for me... Thanks for
>  > bringing it again to the list, Jeff.
>  >
>  > but I did get all my live stuff working so that I could perform 'inworld',
>  > and Dennis performs at the Princeton University performance space often,
>  > which is a beautiful space, and Dennis has established a nice audience for
>  > himself (everytime I've visited to watch)...
>  >
>  > time for a new thread for this stuff if we get into it, cuz it's a DOOZY of
>  > a convo...
>  >
>  > Todd
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Jeff Duke <echohead@embarqmail.com> wrote:
>  >
>  > > oh yeah, about 6.oo bucks (real cash) a month to join and you get monthly
>  > stipend and a signup bonus in virtual money. such a deal...
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Duke" <echohead@embarqmail.com>
>  > >
>  > > To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
>  > > Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 8:49 AM
>  > >
>  > > Subject: Re: Looping venue help
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > >
>  > > > Here is something. I don't know what the costs are yet, but with my
>  > looks maybe a cool thing....lol
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > http://www.reuters.com/article/internetNews/idUSN0930719820080410?feedType=RSS&feedName=internetNews
>  > > >
>  > > > further..
>  > > >
>  > > > http://secondlife.com/
>  > > >
>  > > > And...
>  > > >
>  > > > http://www.myspace.com/slimwarriorsl
>  > > >
>  > > > Jeff
>  > > >
>  > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "andy butler"
>  > <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk>
>  > > > To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
>  > > > Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 2:18 PM
>  > > > Subject: Re: Looping venue help
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > > Chris Sewell wrote:
>  > > > >
>  > > > > > Never play for free.
>  > > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > > "I don't want to sell my music.
>  > > > > I'd like to give it away because where I got it, you didn't have to
>  > pay for it."
>  > > > > ...Don Van Vliet, 1970
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > --
>  > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
>  > > > Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.12/1373 -
>  > Release Date: 4/11/2008 9:17 AM
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > --
>  > http://www.toddreynolds.com |:
>  > http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic |:
>  >  ------------------------------------------------------|:
>  > 917.576.6166
>  > todd@toddreynolds.com
>  > toddreyn@gmail.com
>
>


-- 
The Acoustic World Guitar of Jim Goodin  - http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com
MySpace (solo) - http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic
Chinapainting -
http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com
Chinapainting on My Space -
http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com
The Jim Goodin label and home for 7 other creative souls -
http://www.woodandwiremusic.com
Jim Goodin uses GHS Strings - http://www.ghsstrings.com and Seagull
Guitars - http://www.seagullguitars.com, Jim Goodin is published by
Mel Bay Publications, Inc. - http://www.melbay.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 13 20:24:54 2008
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From: "William Walker" <billwalker@baymoon.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: OT: Lapstravaganza April 19 Kuumbwa Jazz Center Santa Cruz CA
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 13:24:54 -0700
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Hey Y'all,

 I'm taking part in this cool lap steel show happening this coming Saturday
at the Kuumbwa Jazz Center. I will  be the renegade looper on the bill  and
will do a duet improv with the great David Phillips from San Francisco. The
show will be all lap, all the time!!! Oh yeah.   Here is a link
http://www.kuumbwajazz.org/concerts/index-apr08.htm#kuumwbwa_popup I believe
I will open the show, after the house band does a couple of numbers, so come
early if you can.

 Peace

 Bill  


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hey Y&#8217;all,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;I&#8217;m taking part in this cool <font =
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style=3D'color:navy'>lap</span></font> steel show happening this coming =
Saturday
at the <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName =
w:st=3D"on">Kuumbwa</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceName
 w:st=3D"on">Jazz</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType =
w:st=3D"on">Center</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>.<font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'> I will&nbsp; be the renegade =
looper on the
bill&nbsp; and will do a duet improv with the great David Phillips from =
<st1:City
w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">San Francisco</st1:place></st1:City>. =
The show
will be all lap, all the time!!! Oh yeah. &nbsp;</span></font>&nbsp;Here =
is a
link <a
href=3D"http://www.kuumbwajazz.org/concerts/index-apr08.htm#kuumwbwa_popu=
p"
title=3D"blocked::http://www.kuumbwajazz.org/concerts/index-apr08.htm#kuu=
mwbwa_popup">http://www.kuumbwajazz.org/concerts/index-apr08.htm#kuumwbwa=
_popup</a>
I believe I will open the show,<font color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'> after
the house band does a couple of numbers,</span></font> so come early if =
you can<font
color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'>.</span></font><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;Peace<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>&nbsp;Bill&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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</body>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 13 20:30:37 2008
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From: "Krispen Hartung" <khartung@cableone.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
References: <p0624080cc40e26f74e4c@[192.168.2.2]>
Subject: Re: This is your brain on jazz -- MRI studies of improvisation
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 14:30:29 -0600
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It is an interesting article. This is the second or third I've seen on this 
topic. Actually, the factors compared in the experimental aren't really 
satisfactory to me. Enough literature has been written on different types of 
improvisation that I would have like to seen several experiment groups 
compared.  Compared to someone playing straight, I would have liked to seen 
the results of a) a jazz musician improvising over a traditional jazz 
structure (the more "idiomatic" form of improvisation), b) a jazz musician 
improvising in the "free" format, with no idiomatic structure over which he 
improvises, and c) a non-jazz musician also playing free (genre neutral). 
I'm sure others might arrange varying differences as well, not like mine. 
Although I like and can play jazz, the fact that they selected jazz players 
somewhat taints the results for me. I would have preferred someone in the 
modern creative or free genres.  Jazz players bring a whole lot of baggage 
with them when play according to their idiom...a lot of memorized, but 
forgotten clichés, runs, motifs, etc...all of which they are used to 
applying over idiomatic jazz structures.  The fact that they use the term 
"jazz" in "free jazz" has implications and a degree of predictability that 
is, historically speaking, out of date, relative to the really cutting edge 
creative music coming out of major creative music university programs today. 
Anyway....really long and complex topic. I knee deep in it right now, with a 
reading list of 15 books looming over my head. I'm reading "As Serious As 
Your Life" right now. Read  Derek Baily's improv book a while back. Have 
many others on my "to do" list, like Forces in Motion (Locke), Arcana I and 
II (Zorn), Jazz Among the Discourses (Gabbhard), Northern Sun Southern Moon 
(Heffley), Blues People, Sink or Swarm. Free Jazz (Jost), etc, etc. 
Man...fascinating stuff, especially on the interpretations of improvisation 
history by afro-American and European sources.  Anyone read the George 
Lewis' "Improvised Music after 1950"?  Unbelievably earth-shaking, pivotal, 
and paradigm shifting work in light of the history of 
improvisation....recommended reading to me by Jeff Kaiser. I have a PDF copy 
for anyone interested.

...but it's pretty damn cool that science is starting to show that us 
improvisers having something unique going on in our brains when we play.

Kris

----- Original Message ----- 



> Hi folks,
>
> This may be of interest to some of you.
>
> http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080311/NEWS07/803110344
> -- 
> " Practice makes perfect, imperfect is better."  -- Paul Bley
>
> Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D.
> Video Producer Image Processing Specialist
> Video for your HEAD! Boris FX
> http://www.foryourhead.com http://www.borisfx.com
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 13 21:05:16 2008
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Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 22:58:43 +0200
From: van Sinn <vansinn@post.cybercity.dk>
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Subject: Re: 5/23: private party
References: <519157.57327.qm@web81001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <p0623090dc427eabdfe67@[10.0.1.5]>
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David Gans wrote:
> 
> 
> Where is it?

Sshss.. private secret.. only if you're line'd up ;)


> At 8:20 AM -0700 4/13/08, margaret noble wrote:
> 
>> wish it was in cali...
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Tom Ritchford <tom@swirly.com>
>> To: Tom Ritchford <tom@swirly.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 11:48:46 PM
>> Subject: 5/23: private party
>>
>> please keep 5/23 open for a very special private party.  drop me a
>> line for more details.


-- 
rgds,
van Sinn

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 13 21:18:25 2008
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Subject: help with phrasing
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=20

Hey All =96

=20

Since this is ground zero for loop terminology, I was hoping to implore =
you
all for some advice with phrasing =96 and of course, to get a shameless =
plug
out of the whole thing.

=20

Here is a list of the functions for my program =85. I am never sure how
clearly these are communicated, so I was wondering which of them cause
confusion (especially for the more novice loopers, who may not have run =
into
such terminology).

=20

The parentheticals below indicate alternate verbiage =85. Used by either
boomerang or RC-20/50 in most cases. =20

Also, I usually say =93loops=94 or =93loop tracks=94 where some (mobius) =
users would
say just =93tracks=94 =85=85

=20

Anyway =85=85 which of these functions make/don=92t make sense in terms =
of
communicating the functions?  Any suggestions for alternate verbiage or
questions about meaning are welcome.

=20

Is it clear what the program does to the (especially novice) user, or =
are
there better ways to phrase things ??

=20

Thanks in advance,

Aaron

=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85.. post =
=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85=85.

=20

Here is a quick breakdown of the functions, please note that all =
functions
can be done immediately and on the fly without stopping playback.

=20

Basic Functions:

- Record independent loop of differing lengths, synced or not

- Stack (layer/overdub) infinitely on any of the loop tracks, with or
without decay

- Stop any loop playback immediately or at the next master loop repeat

- Stutter (One-Shot)

- Record a B side compliment which plays serially to any of the 5 =
primary
loops

- Transition any loop seamlessly from it's A to B side

=20

Advanced Functions:

- Consolidate multiple loops into a single loop

- Multiply, Add (append), or Overwrite any loop

- Change which loop is the master

- Stop or Stutter all loops together, or some group of loops

- Crossfade between two groups of loops

- Scratch a group of loops as if on a turntable

- Shift the frequency (speed and pitch together, then) of a loop or =
group of
loops

=20

Recording:

- Load or Save loops as wav files

- Record a live session including all playing loops and incoming audio
(solos, etc.)

=20

MIDI:

- Map any midi command to any function with a simple midi learn function

=20

Coming Soon:

- VST compliance

=20

see www.flyloops.com for screenshot, video demos, and free download.

=20

Thanks,

Aaron


--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.16.4/1146 - Release Date: =
11/22/2007
6:55 PM



--=20
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.16.4/1146 - Release Date: =
11/22/2007
6:55 PM
=20

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hey All =
&#8211;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Since this is ground zero for loop
terminology, I was hoping to implore you all for some advice with =
phrasing &#8211;
and of course, to get a shameless plug out of the whole =
thing.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Here is a list of the functions for =
my
program &#8230;. I am never sure how clearly these are communicated, so =
I was
wondering which of them cause confusion (especially for the more novice
loopers, who may not have run into such =
terminology).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The parentheticals below indicate =
alternate
verbiage &#8230;. Used by either boomerang or RC-20/50 in most =
cases.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Also, I usually say =
&#8220;loops&#8221; or
&#8220;loop tracks&#8221; where some (mobius) users would say just =
&#8220;tracks&#8221;
&#8230;&#8230;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Anyway &#8230;&#8230; which of =
these
functions make/don&#8217;t make sense in terms of communicating the
functions?&nbsp; Any suggestions for alternate verbiage or questions =
about
meaning are welcome.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Is it clear what the program does =
to the
(especially novice) user, or are there better ways to phrase things =
??<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks in =
advance,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Aaron<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&=
#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..
post =
&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8=
230;&#8230;.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Here is a quick breakdown of the
functions, please note that all functions can be done immediately and on =
the fly
without stopping playback.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Basic =
Functions:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>- Record independent loop of =
differing
lengths, synced or not<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>- Stack (layer/overdub) infinitely =
on any
of the loop tracks, with or without decay<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>- Stop any loop playback =
immediately or at
the next master loop repeat<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>- Stutter =
(One-Shot)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>- Record a B side compliment which =
plays
serially to any of the 5 primary loops<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>- Transition any loop seamlessly =
from it's
A to B side<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Advanced =
Functions:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>- Consolidate multiple loops into a =
single
loop<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>- Multiply, Add (append), or =
Overwrite any
loop<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>- Change which loop is the =
master<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>- Stop or Stutter all loops =
together, or
some group of loops<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>- Crossfade between two groups of =
loops<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>- Scratch a group of loops as if on =
a
turntable<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>- Shift the frequency (speed and =
pitch
together, then) of a loop or group of loops<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Recording:<o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>- Load or Save loops as wav =
files<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>- Record a live session including =
all
playing loops and incoming audio (solos, =
etc.)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><st1:place w:st=3D"on"><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial><span
 =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>MIDI</span></font=
></st1:place><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>- Map any midi command to any =
function
with a simple midi learn function<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Coming =
Soon:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>- VST =
compliance<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>see www.flyloops.com for =
screenshot, video
demos, and free download.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Aaron<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>--<BR>
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.<BR>
Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>
Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.16.4/1146 - Release Date: =
11/22/2007 6:55 PM<BR>
</FONT> </P><BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>--<BR>
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.<BR>
Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>
Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.16.4/1146 - Release Date: =
11/22/2007 6:55 PM<BR>
</FONT> </P>

------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C89D71.2BB8DD60--


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 13 23:11:45 2008
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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 01:11:44 +0200
From: "Raul Bonell" <raul.bonell@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Looping venue help
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i see the matter as good times to use the unpayed gigs.
making them more radical than ever...

raul.

f.i: performing a noisy-crossover-deathmetal-lullaby where it's supposed
to go some polite-gentle-muzak....



-- 
The Playing Orchestra: http://www.telefonica.net/web2/tpo
Chain Tape Collective: http://www.ct-collective.com
TPO at myspace: http://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra
TPO at Jamendo: http://www.jamendo.com

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i see the matter as good times to use the unpayed gigs.<br>making them more radical than ever...<br><br>raul.<br><br> f.i: performing a noisy-crossover-deathmetal-lullaby where it&#39;s supposed <br>to go some polite-gentle-muzak.... <br>
<br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>The Playing Orchestra: <a href="http://www.telefonica.net/web2/tpo">http://www.telefonica.net/web2/tpo</a><br>Chain Tape Collective: <a href="http://www.ct-collective.com">http://www.ct-collective.com</a><br>
TPO at myspace: <a href="http://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra">http://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra</a><br>TPO at Jamendo: <a href="http://www.jamendo.com">http://www.jamendo.com</a>

------=_Part_38846_12874299.1208128304861--

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Subject: Re: 5/23: private party
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 20:11:02 -0400
References: <26ba8d120804122348r7a0e97ecg34749f23257eda0b@mail.gmail.com> <418985.3319.qm@web34505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <26ba8d120804131121y5597f771rff6f1c8cda74678a@mail.gmail.com>
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I thought it was just creepy spam.
On Apr 13, 2008, at 2:21 PM, Tom Ritchford wrote:

> We haven't finalized that part but I'd hardly be surprised.  I wasn't
> intending to be so cryptic, but now that I was.... :-D
>
> On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 1:39 PM, stevenguerrero  
> <mesquamacus@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Very Cryptic. Will there be masks?
>>
>>
>>
>> --- Tom Ritchford <tom@swirly.com> wrote:
>>
>>> please keep 5/23 open for a very special private
>>> party.  drop me a
>>> line for more details.
>>>
>>> --
>>>     /t
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  www.myspace.com/mesqua
>>  www.reverbnation.com/stevenguerrero
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> /t
>

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I'd love to read George's piece, Krispen...  do send me a pdf if the offer
still stands.. please.
I echo the Bailey book, and the Arcana series by John Zorn.

Just wish they'd make John sit down in front of a microphone and read the
whole thing himself for Audible.  THAT would be fun.

or even the chapter authors, lol

All best,

Todd

 Anyone read the George Lewis' "Improvised Music after 1950"?  Unbelievably
> earth-shaking, pivotal, and paradigm shifting work in light of the history
> of improvisation....recommended reading to me by Jeff Kaiser. I have a PDF
> copy for anyone interested.
>
> ...but it's pretty damn cool that science is starting to show that us
> improvisers having something unique going on in our brains when we play.
>
> Kris
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
>  Hi folks,
> >
> > This may be of interest to some of you.
> >
> >
> > http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080311/NEWS07/803110344
> > --
> > " Practice makes perfect, imperfect is better."  -- Paul Bley
> >
> > Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D.
> > Video Producer Image Processing Specialist
> > Video for your HEAD! Boris FX
> > http://www.foryourhead.com http://www.borisfx.com
> >
> >
>


-- 
http://www.toddreynolds.com |:
http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic |:
------------------------------------------------------|:
917.576.6166
todd@toddreynolds.com
toddreyn@gmail.com

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I&#39;d love to read George&#39;s piece, Krispen... &nbsp;do send me a pdf if the offer still stands.. please.<div><br></div><div>I echo the Bailey book, and the Arcana series by John Zorn.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Just wish they&#39;d make John sit down in front of a microphone and read the whole thing himself for Audible. &nbsp;THAT would be fun. &nbsp;</div>
<div><br></div><div>or even the chapter authors, lol</div><div><br></div><div>All best,&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Todd</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
&nbsp;Anyone read the George Lewis&#39; &quot;Improvised Music after 1950&quot;? &nbsp;Unbelievably earth-shaking, pivotal, and paradigm shifting work in light of the history of improvisation....recommended reading to me by Jeff Kaiser. I have a PDF copy for anyone interested.<br>

<br>
...but it&#39;s pretty damn cool that science is starting to show that us improvisers having something unique going on in our brains when we play.<br>
<br>
Kris<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
<br>
----- Original Message ----- <br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi folks,<br>
<br>
This may be of interest to some of you.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080311/NEWS07/803110344" target="_blank">http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080311/NEWS07/803110344</a><br>
-- <br>
&quot; Practice makes perfect, imperfect is better.&quot; &nbsp;-- Paul Bley<br>
<br>
Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D.<br>
Video Producer Image Processing Specialist<br>
Video for your HEAD! Boris FX<br>
<a href="http://www.foryourhead.com" target="_blank">http://www.foryourhead.com</a> <a href="http://www.borisfx.com" target="_blank">http://www.borisfx.com</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><a href="http://www.toddreynolds.com">http://www.toddreynolds.com</a> |:<br><a href="http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic">http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic</a> |:<br>
------------------------------------------------------|:<br>917.576.6166 <br><a href="mailto:todd@toddreynolds.com">todd@toddreynolds.com</a><br><a href="mailto:toddreyn@gmail.com">toddreyn@gmail.com</a>
</div>

------=_Part_41394_14823241.1208132104071--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 14 00:58:11 2008
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Krispen, I'd also very much be interested in the Lewis document...and 
thanks for the various mentions of the books. I've been digging deep 
into anything Zorn these last few months so will have to look up the 
Arcana tomes. I'm not much of a reader these days (feel too guilty not 
spending the time making the music...) but I know it can offer inspiration.

The last really good music books I've read were John Cage's "Silence" 
and the biography "Roaring Silence".

> I'd love to read George's piece, Krispen...  do send me a pdf if the 
> offer still stands.. please.
Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 14 02:31:17 2008
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Subject: Re: This is your brain on jazz -- MRI studies of improvisation
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Wow, I'm glad everyone is so interested. I've sent a whole lot of you this 
PDF article now. Daryl, I'll send to you shortly.

Here is a better list of the books with complete author names. I also added 
some of the CDs I have been listening to lately, to educate myself on the 
breadth of free improv music. Many of these artists are recommended in the 
appendix of the Lewis article.

Literature
  a.. Improvsation - Derek Bailey
  b.. Arcana II: Musicians on Musis - John Zorn
  c.. Arcana Musicians on Music - John Zorn
  d.. Northern Sun, Southern Moon: Europe's Reinvention of Jazz - Heffley
  e.. Jazz Among the Discourses - Krin Gabbard
  f.. Free Jazz - Jost
  g.. As Serious as Your Life: John Coltrane and Beyond - Valerie Wilmer
  h.. Sync or Swarm: Musical Improvisation in a Complex Age - David Borgo
  i.. Forces in Motion; The Music and Thoughts of Anthony Braxton - Lock

My Discography (a few are missing, which I did not list)
  a.. Anthony Braxton - Six Compositions
  b.. Derek Bailey, Greg Goodman, Hendry Kaiser, Toshinori Kondo, Evan 
Parker, ROVA - The Science Set
  c.. Eugene Chadbourne - The German Horse
  d.. Fred Anderson - Back at the Velvet Lounge
  e.. Jim Staley - Mumbo Jumbo
  f.. Peter Brotzmann - Born Broke
  g.. Roscoe Mitchell - Quartet
  h.. Muhal Richard Abrams, George Lewis, Roscoe Mitchell - Streaming
  i.. Bob Ostertag -  Verbatim, Flesh and Blood
  j.. Voltage - Self Titled
  k.. Dempa - Nine Fragments
  l.. Evan Parker, Guy, Lyttton, Marylyn Crispell - Natives & Aliens
  m.. Cecil Taylor - Unit Structures
  n.. Joe Morris / Rob Brown Quartet - Illuminate
  o.. Derek Bailey - Carpal Tunnel
  p.. Derek Bailey - Aida
  q.. Derek Bailey & Cecil Taylor - Pleistozaen Mit Wasser
  r.. Derek Bailey & Greg Bendian - The Sign of 4
  s.. Derek Bailey, Pat Metheny, Greg Bendian, Paul Wertico - Science of 
Eduacation
  t.. Ornette Coleman / Pat Metheny - Song X
Kris


----- Original Message ----- 



> Krispen, I'd also very much be interested in the Lewis document...and 
> thanks for the various mentions of the books. I've been digging deep into 
> anything Zorn these last few months so will have to look up the Arcana 
> tomes. I'm not much of a reader these days (feel too guilty not spending 
> the time making the music...) but I know it can offer inspiration.
>
> The last really good music books I've read were John Cage's "Silence" and 
> the biography "Roaring Silence".
>
>> I'd love to read George's piece, Krispen...  do send me a pdf if the 
>> offer still stands.. please.
> Daryl Shawn
> www.swanwelder.com
> www.chinapaintingmusic.com
> 

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Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:05:05 -0400
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wait... WE?  WEEEEE?
t.

On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 2:21 PM, Tom Ritchford <tom@swirly.com> wrote:

> We haven't finalized that part but I'd hardly be surprised.  I wasn't
> intending to be so cryptic, but now that I was.... :-D
>
> On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 1:39 PM, stevenguerrero <mesquamacus@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > Very Cryptic. Will there be masks?
> >
> >
> >
> >  --- Tom Ritchford <tom@swirly.com> wrote:
> >
> >  > please keep 5/23 open for a very special private
> >  > party.  drop me a
> >  > line for more details.
> >  >
> >  > --
> >  >      /t
> >  >
> >  >
> >
> >
> >
> >   www.myspace.com/mesqua
> >   www.reverbnation.com/stevenguerrero
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  __________________________________________________
> >  Do You Yahoo!?
> >  Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> >  http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
>  /t
>
>


-- 
http://www.toddreynolds.com |:
http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic |:
------------------------------------------------------|:
917.576.6166
todd@toddreynolds.com
toddreyn@gmail.com

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wait... WE? &nbsp;WEEEEE? &nbsp;&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>t.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 2:21 PM, Tom Ritchford &lt;<a href="mailto:tom@swirly.com">tom@swirly.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
We haven&#39;t finalized that part but I&#39;d hardly be surprised. &nbsp;I wasn&#39;t<br>
intending to be so cryptic, but now that I was.... :-D<br>
<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 1:39 PM, stevenguerrero &lt;<a href="mailto:mesquamacus@yahoo.com">mesquamacus@yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; Very Cryptic. Will there be masks?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;--- Tom Ritchford &lt;<a href="mailto:tom@swirly.com">tom@swirly.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;&gt; please keep 5/23 open for a very special private<br>
&gt; &nbsp;&gt; party. &nbsp;drop me a<br>
&gt; &nbsp;&gt; line for more details.<br>
&gt; &nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;&gt; --<br>
&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;/t<br>
&gt; &nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp; <a href="http://www.myspace.com/mesqua" target="_blank">www.myspace.com/mesqua</a><br>
&gt; &nbsp; <a href="http://www.reverbnation.com/stevenguerrero" target="_blank">www.reverbnation.com/stevenguerrero</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;__________________________________________________<br>
&gt; &nbsp;Do You Yahoo!?<br>
&gt; &nbsp;Tired of spam? &nbsp;Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around<br>
&gt; &nbsp;<a href="http://mail.yahoo.com" target="_blank">http://mail.yahoo.com</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div>--<br>
<font color="#888888">&nbsp;/t<br>
<br>
</font></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><a href="http://www.toddreynolds.com">http://www.toddreynolds.com</a> |:<br><a href="http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic">http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic</a> |:<br>
------------------------------------------------------|:<br>917.576.6166 <br><a href="mailto:todd@toddreynolds.com">todd@toddreynolds.com</a><br><a href="mailto:toddreyn@gmail.com">toddreyn@gmail.com</a>
</div>

------=_Part_41902_23128426.1208142305117--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 14 05:07:36 2008
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=20
 George=20
Lewis' "Improvised Music after 1950"=20
Yes please send me a copy ,I'm very interested.=20
  I too feel these studies aren't defining improvisation carefully enough.
I expect that will develop. I would like to see Indian Classical musicans s=
tudied,=20
as well as players with much less formal training.=20


















_________________________________________________________________
Going green? See the top 12 foods to eat organic.
http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.aspx?gid=3D164&ocid=3DT003MSN5=
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&nbsp;<br><pre> George <br>Lewis' "Improvised Music after 1950"</pre>&nbsp;
Yes please send me a copy ,I'm very interested. <br><pre>  I too feel these=
 studies aren't defining improvisation carefully enough.<span style=3D"font=
-family: Tahoma,Helvetica,Sans-Serif;"><br></span>I expect that will develo=
p. I would like to see Indian Classical musicans studied, <br>as well as pl=
ayers with much less formal training. <br><br><br></pre><span class=3D"body=
"></span><span class=3D"EC_EC_EC_EC_EC_bodybold"></span><br><br><br><br><br=
><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br /><hr />Going green? <a href=
=3D'http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.aspx?gid=3D164&ocid=3DT003=
MSN51N1653A' target=3D'_new'>See the top 12 foods to eat organic.</a></body=
>
</html>=

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On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 10:30 PM, Krispen Hartung <khartung@cableone.net> wrote:
>
>  ...but it's pretty damn cool that science is starting to show that us
> improvisers having something unique going on in our brains when we play.
>
>  Kris


I've been suspecting this all the time since I started playing
improvised music in 1976. But I can't say, subjectively, what part of
my perception are cause by these "brain mutations" or what parts are
caused by normal learning. As I said in an earlier post, that also was
referring to these scientific findings: it would be interesting to see
this research on musical improvisers related to other research on
brain reactions under meditation, breathing exercises and other sort
of improvisation besides musical improvisation.

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com

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			 		 		You won 1,000,000,00 Yahoo! Mail congratulates you our lucky winner!!  <br>                               Messenger <br>CONGRATULATIONS!! <br><br>YOU WON $1,000,000,00! <br>THE YAHOO/Msn/Aol/GOOGLE/ GLOBAL LOTTERY INTERNATIONAL. INC <br>22nd Floor, The Millennia Tower, <br>62 Langsuan Rd. Pathumwan Bangkok 10430, <br>Thailand..<br><br><br>                   YAHOO LOTTERY WINNING NOTIFICATION <br><br>HELLO LUCKY WINNER!!<br><br>We happily announce to you the draw of the Yahoo Lottery Intl Inc programs held on the first quarter of this year, 2008 in Bangkok, Thailand. Your e-mail address attached to ticket number: 56475600545 188 with Serial number 5388/02 drew the lucky numbers: 31-6-2613357, which subsequently won you the lottery in the 2nd category. You are therefore, been approved to claim a total sum of $1,000,000.00 ONE MILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS). lottery win promotion which is organized by Google &amp; YAHOO LOTTERY INTL INC. every quarter of the year.<br><br>Please note that your lucky winning numbers falls within our Asia Regional Representative Office in Bangkok as indicated in this notice. In view of this, you$B!G(Bre $1,000,000.00 would be released to you after contacting our legal/clearance office here in Bangkok. Our fiduciary agent zoned for our paying bank (ICBS) will immediately commence the process to facilitate the release of your funds as soon as you contact him.<br><br>YAHOO, collects all the E-MAIL I D of the people that subscribes to yahoo mail, msn, hotmail, aol, rediffmail, altavista, and others online, among the billions that subscribe to us only fifty-five people did emerge as winners since we only select  fifty-five people every quarter as our winners through electronic balloting System without the winner applying, we are congratulating you for having been one of the lucky people that won for this month. <br><br>PAYMENT OF PRIZE AND CLAIM <br><br>You are to contact your Fiduciary Agent on or before your date of Claims, Winners shall be paid in accordance with his/her Payment Center. Yahoo Lottery Prize must be claimed not later than 7 days from date of Draw Notification after the Draw date in which Prize was won. Any prize not claimed within this period will be nullified and retrieved. <br><br>To file for your claim,fill out the form below with your information details send to:<br><br>LEGAL CONSULTANT/FIDUCIARY AGENT:<br>Mr. JEFFERY CHONG<br>Email: jefferychong@myway.com<br><br>These numbers are your winning identification numbers, which you will send to your fiduciary agent.<br>Serial number 5388/02<br>Draw lucky numbers: 31-6-2613357<br>Ticket number: 56475600545 188<br>Batch number.....................Lwh 09102 <br>Lotto number.......................Lwh35447 <br>Winning number...................Lwh09788<br><br>You are therefore advised to quote the following information to <br>the Claims Agent as to facilitate the processing of your won amount and transfer of your fund without delay. More-so do well to fill the form below:<br><br>NOTE: YOU ARE STRONGLY ADVISED TO KEEP ALL YOUR WINNING AND WINNING DETAILS CONFIDENTIAL TILL CLAIM IS MADE TO AVOID WRONG CLAIMING. ANY BREACH OF CONFIDENCIAL DISQULIFIES YOU FROM GETTING YOUR PRIZE. <br><br>Congratulations once more!!<br>Yours Sincerely,<br><br><br><br> DR. JOHNSON BLAKE(PHD)<br>LOTTERY ONLINE CO-ORDINATOR.<br>The Yahoo.com staff<br>Yahoo.com http://www.yahoo.com<br><br><br><br>              VERIFICATION AND CLEARANCE FORM<br><br>1.FULL NAMES:__________________________________                                       <br><br>2.ADDRESS:_____________________________________________                   <br><br>3.SEX:______________<br><br>4.AGE:________              <br><br>5.MARITAL STATUS:___________________                         <br><br>6.OCCUPATION:________________________                    <br><br>7.NATIONALITY:_____________________________<br><br>8.TELEPHONE NUMBER:_____________________        <br><br>9.BATCH NUMBER:____________________ _____________<br><br>10.LOTTO NUMBER:                                                                            <br><br>11.WINNING NUMBER:                                                                      <br><br>12.DRAW LUCKY NUMBER:                                                              <br><br>13.SERIAL NUMBER:                                                                          <br><br>14.TICKET NUMBER:                                                                           <br><br>15.AMOUNT WON:_________________________________<br><br>16.DO YOU OWN A COMPUTER:<br><br>17.WHEN FIRST DID YOU USE A COMPUTER:<br><br>18. COUNTRY:________________________________<br><br><br><br><br> <br>CONGRATULATIONS!!! FROM YAHOO ONLINE <br>LOTTERY BOARD.<br> <br>DO NOT DELETE THIS MESSAGE JOIN THE MOVE AGAINST SPAM EMAILS <br>
		 	 			 <br></font>
										<table cellpadding=1 cellspacing=0 border=0>
	<tr><td colspan="3">&nbsp;</td></tr>
	<tr valign=top>
		<td><b>$B>7BT<T!'(B</b></td>
		<td>&nbsp;</td>
		<td>asiapacific0001</td>
	</tr>
	<tr valign=top>
		<td><b>$BF|IU!'(B</b></td>
		<td>&nbsp;</td>
			<td><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,ccd2c5/?v=1&t=1208181600" target="_blank">2008$BG/(B4$B7n(B14$BF|(B $B7nMKF|(B</a>
				</td>
	</tr>

	<tr valign=top>
		<td><b>$B;~9o!'(B</b></td>
		<td>&nbsp;</td>
			<td>14:00 - 15:00
				</td>
	</tr>

	<tr valign=top>
		<td><b>$B%?%$%`%>!<%s!'(B</b></td>
		<td>&nbsp;</td>
		<td>$BF|K\!"4Z9q(B</td>
	</tr>
	<tr valign=top>
		<td><b>$B>l=j!'(B</b></td>
		<td>&nbsp;</td>
		<td>YOU WON $1,000,000,00!
				</td>
	</tr>
</table>

			</font></td>
                </tr>
                <tr>
                        <td height=6></td>
                </tr>
                <tr>
                        <td>&nbsp;</td>
                        <td colspan=2><b>
						  $B=P@J$7$^$9$+!)(B&nbsp; &nbsp;<a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,ff3211/asiapacific0001?v=126&a1=0&iid=gxBWGYh%40GOr5aXyl9xI-Up3%40%40OP1%40NyWphAEIx%40%40&igid=gxBWGYh%40GOr5aXyl9xJ-Ut3%40%40O89%40NhWahAEIx%40%40">$BJV?.$r$*4j$$$$$?$7$^$9!#(B</a>
			 						</b>
			</td>
		</tr>
		</table>
	</td>
		<td valign=top width=1%>
				<table cellspacing=0 border=0 width=100% bgcolor="#EEF3FB" cellpadding=4 style="border: solid 2px #B6C7E5">
	<tr>
		<td align=center colspan=7>
			<B>2008$BG/(B 4$B7n(B</B>
		</td>
	</tr>
	<tr class=ftitle><td align=center><font color="#E83838">$BF|(B</font></td><td align=center>$B7n(B</td><td align=center>$B2P(B</td><td align=center>$B?e(B</td><td align=center>$BLZ(B</td><td align=center>$B6b(B</td><td align=center>$BEZ(B</td></tr>
<tr><td class=monn><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=61&t=1206835200"><font color="#E83838">30</font></a></td><td class=monn><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=61&t=1206921600">31</a></td><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1207008000">1</a></td><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1207094400">2</a></td><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1207180800">3</a></td><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1207267200">4</a></td><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1207353600">5</a></td></tr>
<tr><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1207440000"><font color="#E83838">6</font></a></td><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1207526400">7</a></td><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1207612800">8</a></td><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1207699200">9</a></td><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1207785600">10</a></td><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1207872000">11</a></td><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1207958400">12</a></td></tr>
<tr><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1208044800"><font color="#E83838">13</font></a></td><td class=mons><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1208131200">14</a></td><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1208217600">15</a></td><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1208304000">16</a></td><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1208390400">17</a></td><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1208476800">18</a></td><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1208563200">19</a></td></tr>
<tr><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1208649600"><font color="#E83838">20</font></a></td><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1208736000">21</a></td><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1208822400">22</a></td><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1208908800">23</a></td><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1208995200">24</a></td><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1209081600">25</a></td><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1209168000">26</a></td></tr>
<tr><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1209254400"><font color="#E83838">27</font></a></td><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1209340800">28</a></td><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1209427200"><font color="#E83838">29</font></a></td><td class=mon><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1209513600">30</a></td><td class=monn><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1209600000">1</a></td><td class=monn><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1209686400">2</a></td><td class=monn><a href="http://calendar.yahoo.co.jp/YYY,05fe2b/?v=0&t=1209772800">3</a></td></tr>

	<tr bgcolor=white>
		<td nowrap colspan=7 align=center> <font  size=-1>$B:#F|$O(B<i>2008$BG/(B4$B7n(B14$BF|(B</i>$B$G$9!#(B</font> </td>
	</tr>
	</table>


		</td>
</tr>
</table>
<center>
<p>
<center>
<hr noshade size="1" width="100%">
<font size=-1>
<a href="http://privacy.yahoo.co.jp/privacy/jp/">$B%W%i%$%P%7!<$N9M$(J}(B</a> -
<a href="http://www.yahoo.co.jp/docs/info/terms/">$BMxMQ5,Ls(B</a> -
<a href="http://help.yahoo.co.jp/help/jp/cal/">$B%X%k%W(B</a>
<br>Copyright (C) 2008$B!!(BYahoo Japan Corporation. All Rights Reserved.
</font>
</center>


</center>
</html>



--YCalInvites=ZBZAZJBfJcwT15QqylEAEkTqh9VWIU41208160133--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 14 08:12:26 2008
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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 01:12:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: empress super delay videos are up now
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
In-Reply-To: <005201c89c14$fec288e0$6c052052@customer3530f5>
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yes id be interested too,in the meantime ive already
ordered the timefactor so we will see how that goes!
cheers
Luis

--- Ian Popperwell <popperwell@iname.com> wrote:

> I'm interested in how this compares to the Eventide
> TimeFactor. It is only 
> about Ģ30 cheaper and whilst it has a similar
> feature set, but looks like it 
> has a lot less detailled controls (both internally
> and externally). Also, no 
> mention of USB and MIDI, neither of external
> footswitches - only a pedal 
> which sounds like it can only be routed to mix or
> feedback.
> 
> Am I reading it right? does anyone know more?
> 
> Ian.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
> To: "Loopers Delight"
> <loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 12:50 AM
> Subject: empress super delay videos are up now
> 
> 
> very nice and versatile for such a small and compact
> unit,its also true bypass(seems to sound really
> nice)
> and seems to have smarter features than the dl4
> check out the well explained videos
> http://www.empresseffects.com/superdelay.php#videos
> cheers
> Luis
> 
> 
> 
> www.myspace.com/luisangulocom
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 14 10:14:22 2008
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	id 8F09D3BE8A; Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:14:22 +0000 (UTC)
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Subject: RE: camcorder (was bad news, good news, bad news)
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 11:14:20 +0100
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From: "Goddard, Duncan" <goddard.duncan@mtvne.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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>>Duncan?  What's your take on this level of camcorder media?<<

tape will be around so long as there's someone still breathing in sony's
consumer division. one thing they hate to do is sell you something &
have you walk away, not needing them for anything else.=20

every time we think "tape is dead", even in the broadcast world where
large files are routinely transcoded, converted & exchanged amongst
systems many miles apart, people still love the feel of a nice warm
cassette when they've spent all day editing at $300/hour or whatever.

but I digress. on a purely practical note, it's much easier & cheaper to
carry a bag of new or used spare tapes than it is to carry a spare
hard-drive or memory stick. dv stock is quite hardy & withstands re-use
quite well. it's also much easier to find in weird, out-of-the-way
locations. sony & the big stock manufacturers have taken care of that!

I caution against HD-DV for broadcast use, but only because it isn't
really HD, & will fall foul of distributor guidelines concerning native
resolution & the like. otherwise, it's amazing bang-for-buck.=20
mini-DV is an excellent format, frequently let down by the quality of
the lenses it's shot through, & the poor production-values that often
attend low-cost technology. the sony vx-1000 is a design-classic, in my
view...=20

(I could spend all day on this, but I have to write a delivery
specification document for HD material......)

duncan.



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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 14 10:37:41 2008
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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 03:37:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Tidwell <wedgehed@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: 5/23: private party
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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It's like a key party, except we all go home with
someone else's looper.

John

--- Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com> wrote:

> I thought it was just creepy spam.




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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 03:49:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Tidwell <wedgehed@yahoo.com>
Subject: Pigtronix Echolution, anyone?
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It looks pretty cool in the video.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fM9KyKd54Ac


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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 14 11:10:13 2008
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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 07:10:09 -0400
From: "Dennis Moser" <sinsofmachaut@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Second Life as a Paying Venue
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For some reason, my posting got delayed for some folks. Anyhow ...

Jim: The difference between SL and a webcast or a podcast ... a
podcast is a "fixed" file, i.e., it is recorded and then available
from a "permanent" location, either a single URL or a website with
multiple listings of other podcasts,each with their own URIs. A
webcast is a URL pointing to a server that will stream a file. That
file may be pre-recorded (as in, using the file from a podcast) or a
live transmission (like we did for the electro-music New Year's Eve
performances, or what Darrell Burgan does each Saturday night for his
Blue Water Drift Dive over at stillstream.com ...).

In general usage, a podacst is static and may consist of multiple
files over time (each perhaps representing unique performances). A
webcast is generally seen as the streaming of a "live"
situation/broadcast, though in the case of "web radio" that stream may
be "recorded" files.

Sometimes the distinctions are a little on the whiffy side of semantic shad=
ing!

Second Life takes advantage of both. In my case, it is more analogous
to a webcast, as I am performing the work live in my humble 2nd
bedroom studio, feeding the audio into an interface of a computer,
streaming the results out to an aggregating server which then feeds
the audio into SL. The "live performance" aspect kicks in once I log
on to the Second Life environment, where my avatar is doing an
animation of playing a guitar (a Fender; working on getting a copy of
my Godin made!) in front of an audience of other avatars who are
logged in, literally, from all over the world. During breaks in
playing, I can interact with the audience via typed Chat or Instant
Message and through voice via the webstream.

Last November, I did a live performance on stage at Princeton
University; this was a "simulcast" into Second Life, with a feed in of
both audio and video, along with my avatar being present.  This is the
second time I have tried something like this (the first being at the
"@ Lab" of Ohio University last Spring to inaugurate their new Second
Life performance space). There is a growing number of people looking
at this latter kind of virtual performance of combining live audio and
video feeds in to SL from their real world performances.

Most recently, I have done a session, using ninjam, with a group of
performers scattered between Chicago, Boston, Munich and Berlin,
Germany  and Sk=F6ndal, Sweden (I hope I types right!) with the ninjam
server streaming our combined audio into SL, where our avatars are.
For a group like Chinapainting, this might offer some interesting
possibilities.

Hope this helps and gives some ideas ... let me know if I can assist.

Dennis

On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Jim Goodin <jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com> wrot=
e:
> Dennis I'm just now seeing this.  Is this (SL) different from a web
>  cast or podcast, is it in theory 'live'?  We [Daryl] and I were at one
>  point in that we are remote more than live in person thus far, were
>  looking for something like what this sounds like for Chinapainting
>  performances and have since settled for doing a  monthly podcast
>  (http://chinapainting.podomatic.com) series..
>
>  It sounds a bit like one of my son's Habo Hotel things but audio only?
>
>  Anyhow sounds like it might be an option when the actual live market
>  can be lean.
>
>  Thanks for clueing me in...
>
>  Jim Goodin
>  www.jimgoodinmusic.com
>  www.chinapaintingmusic.com
>
>
>
>  On 4/11/08, Dennis Moser <sinsofmachaut@gmail.com> wrote:
>  > Thanks, Todd ...
>  >
>  >  Yes, Second Life CAN actually be a good regular gig and can provide a
>  >  few extra hundred bucks per month for playing while wearing your
>  >  pajamas, not smelling like stale beer and smoke when you finish and
>  >  not having to worry about lugging your gear up 4 flights of stairs or
>  >  having it ripped off from your car.
>  >
>  >  But it's like any other gig in that you have to take it seriously and
>  >  work hard at giving your best to the audience.
>  >
>  >  Last year I think I did over 200 concerts; this year, I've scaled bac=
k
>  >  considerably, but only because I have some real life projects that ar=
e
>  >  keeping my hands full. I have a regular monthly concert series that I
>  >  am doing this year at one particular venue (Bibi's Sky Castle, for th=
e
>  >  cognescenti!) and will probably add a couple of extra performances
>  >  through the rest of the year.
>  >
>  >  There are not many folks who are self-professed Loopers performing in
>  >  SL; don't know why and maybe it isn't important.
>  >
>  >  But if you want to share your music and are willling to spending some
>  >  time developing a highly appreciative audience, then you should
>  >  consider it. It always amazes me to see the spikes in downloads and C=
D
>  >  sales after each performance, with more of them coming from Europe an=
d
>  >  the UK than the US ... what is it they say about a prophet not being
>  >  appreciated in their own land?
>  >
>  >  If you do sign on to Second Life, feel free to drop me a notecard (th=
e
>  >  IMs get capped regularly) ... look for AldoManutio Abruzzo ...
>  >
>  >  Best you all,
>  >
>  >  ~~D.
>  >
>  >
>  >  On 4/11/08, todd reynolds <toddreyn@gmail.com> wrote:
>  >  > I'm on there (Kamerin Kokorin) and so is LD community member Dennis=
 Moser,
>  >  > but frankly, I've found it difficult to start a community there wit=
hout
>  >  > quite a bit of time spent, and it is HIGHLY addictive for me... Tha=
nks for
>  >  > bringing it again to the list, Jeff.
>  >  >
>  >  > but I did get all my live stuff working so that I could perform 'in=
world',
>  >  > and Dennis performs at the Princeton University performance space o=
ften,
>  >  > which is a beautiful space, and Dennis has established a nice audie=
nce for
>  >  > himself (everytime I've visited to watch)...
>  >  >
>  >  > time for a new thread for this stuff if we get into it, cuz it's a =
DOOZY of
>  >  > a convo...
>  >  >
>  >  > Todd

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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 08:18:04 -0400
From: "todd reynolds" <toddreyn@gmail.com>
Reply-To: todd@toddreynolds.com
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Pigtronix Echolution, anyone?
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it does look and sound great... not sure i'd pay 469 for it, as i can't
engage reverse remotely or save any presets, really..., but for a boutique
delay pedal, or a quasi-all in one chorus, delay, overdrive, I'd love to
have one in my chain.  (of course i'm a hypocrite, as i'm mostly a software
guy whose hardware gland just happens to be a little active right now, lol.)
t.

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 6:49 AM, John Tidwell <wedgehed@yahoo.com> wrote:

> It looks pretty cool in the video.
>
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=fM9KyKd54Ac
>
>
>
>  ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>


-- 
http://www.toddreynolds.com |:
http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic |:
------------------------------------------------------|:
917.576.6166
todd@toddreynolds.com
toddreyn@gmail.com

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it does look and sound great... not sure i&#39;d pay 469 for it, as i can&#39;t engage reverse remotely or save any presets, really..., but for a boutique delay pedal, or a quasi-all in one chorus, delay, overdrive, I&#39;d love to have one in my chain. &nbsp;(of course i&#39;m a hypocrite, as i&#39;m mostly a software guy whose hardware gland just happens to be a little active right now, lol.)<div>
<br></div><div>t.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 6:49 AM, John Tidwell &lt;<a href="mailto:wedgehed@yahoo.com">wedgehed@yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
It looks pretty cool in the video.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://youtube.com/watch?v=fM9KyKd54Ac" target="_blank">http://youtube.com/watch?v=fM9KyKd54Ac</a><br>
<div class="WgoR0d"><br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;____________________________________________________________________________________<br>
Be a better friend, newshound, and<br>
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. &nbsp;Try it now. &nbsp;<a href="http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ" target="_blank">http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ</a><br>
<br>
</div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><a href="http://www.toddreynolds.com">http://www.toddreynolds.com</a> |:<br><a href="http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic">http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic</a> |:<br>
------------------------------------------------------|:<br>917.576.6166 <br><a href="mailto:todd@toddreynolds.com">todd@toddreynolds.com</a><br><a href="mailto:toddreyn@gmail.com">toddreyn@gmail.com</a>
</div>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 14 12:59:23 2008
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Subject: RE: This is your brain on jazz -- MRI studies of improvisation
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 05:59:27 -0700
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This presentation is beautiful , inspiring and provides unique insight into
brain physiology.

http://static.videoegg.com/ted/flash/fullscreen.html?v=/ted/movies/JILLTAYLO
R-2008-2&cid=/ted/moviesellis


Qua

-----Original Message-----
From: Per Boysen [mailto:perboysen@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 12:16 AM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: This is your brain on jazz -- MRI studies of improvisation

On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 10:30 PM, Krispen Hartung <khartung@cableone.net>
wrote:
>
>  ...but it's pretty damn cool that science is starting to show that us
> improvisers having something unique going on in our brains when we play.
>
>  Kris


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Subject: OT Sydney Music Festival
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 09:49:12 -0500
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"A festival's concept of culture should be very broad," Atherton told =
the Sydney Morning Herald newspaper.

http://www.reuters.com/article/musicNews/idUSSYD20169220080412



maybe there wil be clips...



Jeff

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<P>"A festival's concept of culture should be very broad," Atherton told =
the=20
Sydney Morning Herald newspaper.</P>
<P><A=20
href=3D"http://www.reuters.com/article/musicNews/idUSSYD20169220080412">h=
ttp://www.reuters.com/article/musicNews/idUSSYD20169220080412</A></P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>maybe there wil be clips...</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>Jeff</P></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Not at all!  Gee/hmph.  I've been a member of Looper's Delight since the
50s, when we used to loop with a hacked Victrola using knitting needles for
playback.

On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 8:11 PM, Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com> wrote:

> I thought it was just creepy spam.
> On Apr 13, 2008, at 2:21 PM, Tom Ritchford wrote:
>
> > We haven't finalized that part but I'd hardly be surprised.  I wasn't
> > intending to be so cryptic, but now that I was.... :-D
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 1:39 PM, stevenguerrero
> > <mesquamacus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> Very Cryptic. Will there be masks?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- Tom Ritchford <tom@swirly.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> please keep 5/23 open for a very special private
> >>> party.  drop me a
> >>> line for more details.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>     /t
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  www.myspace.com/mesqua
> >>  www.reverbnation.com/stevenguerrero
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> Do You Yahoo!?
> >> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> >> http://mail.yahoo.com
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > /t
> >
>
>


-- 
    /t

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Not at all!&nbsp; Gee/hmph.&nbsp; I&#39;ve been a member of Looper&#39;s Delight since the 50s, when we used to loop with a hacked Victrola using knitting needles for playback.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 8:11 PM, Chris Sewell &lt;<a href="mailto:lunamusic@mac.com">lunamusic@mac.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">I thought it was just creepy spam.<br>
<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">On Apr 13, 2008, at 2:21 PM, Tom Ritchford wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; We haven&#39;t finalized that part but I&#39;d hardly be surprised. &nbsp;I wasn&#39;t<br>
&gt; intending to be so cryptic, but now that I was.... :-D<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 1:39 PM, stevenguerrero<br>
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:mesquamacus@yahoo.com">mesquamacus@yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; Very Cryptic. Will there be masks?<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; --- Tom Ritchford &lt;<a href="mailto:tom@swirly.com">tom@swirly.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; please keep 5/23 open for a very special private<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; party. &nbsp;drop me a<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; line for more details.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; --<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; /t<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp;<a href="http://www.myspace.com/mesqua" target="_blank">www.myspace.com/mesqua</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp;<a href="http://www.reverbnation.com/stevenguerrero" target="_blank">www.reverbnation.com/stevenguerrero</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; __________________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; Do You Yahoo!?<br>
&gt;&gt; Tired of spam? &nbsp;Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href="http://mail.yahoo.com" target="_blank">http://mail.yahoo.com</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; /t<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br> &nbsp; &nbsp; /t<br>

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I should add that I've gotten more response from this announcement than any
other gig announcement I ever sent out (typical reply: include me in).

We're just doing a gig to test out our new show on 5/23 and I want to keep
it private just because the space is fairly small and intimate (and because
I want to get people I know to see it so we can get brutal criticism).   I
got the confirm and just sent out a quick note without much thought behind
it.

Very instructive.  Next time I'll send out just a symbol ("The gig formerly
known as Tom Swirly's Psych-o-delic Circus") and only respond in Basque.

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 10:03 AM, Tom Ritchford <tom@swirly.com> wrote:

> Not at all!  Gee/hmph.  I've been a member of Looper's Delight since the
> 50s, when we used to loop with a hacked Victrola using knitting needles for
> playback.
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 8:11 PM, Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > I thought it was just creepy spam.
> > On Apr 13, 2008, at 2:21 PM, Tom Ritchford wrote:
> >
> > > We haven't finalized that part but I'd hardly be surprised.  I wasn't
> > > intending to be so cryptic, but now that I was.... :-D
> > >
> > > On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 1:39 PM, stevenguerrero
> > > <mesquamacus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >> Very Cryptic. Will there be masks?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --- Tom Ritchford <tom@swirly.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> please keep 5/23 open for a very special private
> > >>> party.  drop me a
> > >>> line for more details.
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>>     /t
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>  www.myspace.com/mesqua
> > >>  www.reverbnation.com/stevenguerrero
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> __________________________________________________
> > >> Do You Yahoo!?
> > >> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > >> http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > /t
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>     /t
>



-- 
    /t

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I should add that I&#39;ve gotten more response from this announcement than any other gig announcement I ever sent out (typical reply: include me in).<br><br>We&#39;re just doing a gig to test out our new show on 5/23 and I want to keep it private just because the space is fairly small and intimate (and because I want to get people I know to see it so we can get brutal criticism).&nbsp;&nbsp; I got the confirm and just sent out a quick note without much thought behind it.<br>
<br>Very instructive.&nbsp; Next time I&#39;ll send out just a symbol (&quot;The gig formerly known as Tom Swirly&#39;s Psych-o-delic Circus&quot;) and only respond in Basque.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 10:03 AM, Tom Ritchford &lt;<a href="mailto:tom@swirly.com">tom@swirly.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Not at all!&nbsp; Gee/hmph.&nbsp; I&#39;ve been a member of Looper&#39;s Delight since the 50s, when we used to loop with a hacked Victrola using knitting needles for playback.<div>
<div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 8:11 PM, Chris Sewell &lt;<a href="mailto:lunamusic@mac.com" target="_blank">lunamusic@mac.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">I thought it was just creepy spam.<br>
<div><div></div><div>On Apr 13, 2008, at 2:21 PM, Tom Ritchford wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; We haven&#39;t finalized that part but I&#39;d hardly be surprised. &nbsp;I wasn&#39;t<br>
&gt; intending to be so cryptic, but now that I was.... :-D<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 1:39 PM, stevenguerrero<br>
&gt; &lt;<a href="mailto:mesquamacus@yahoo.com" target="_blank">mesquamacus@yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; Very Cryptic. Will there be masks?<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; --- Tom Ritchford &lt;<a href="mailto:tom@swirly.com" target="_blank">tom@swirly.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; please keep 5/23 open for a very special private<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; party. &nbsp;drop me a<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; line for more details.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; --<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; /t<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp;<a href="http://www.myspace.com/mesqua" target="_blank">www.myspace.com/mesqua</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &nbsp;<a href="http://www.reverbnation.com/stevenguerrero" target="_blank">www.reverbnation.com/stevenguerrero</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; __________________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; Do You Yahoo!?<br>
&gt;&gt; Tired of spam? &nbsp;Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href="http://mail.yahoo.com" target="_blank">http://mail.yahoo.com</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; /t<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br></div></div>-- <br><font color="#888888"> &nbsp; &nbsp; /t<br>
</font></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br> &nbsp; &nbsp; /t<br>

------=_Part_2556_953242.1208182059817--

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Hi all
=20
I just got back from my holidays surfing in Lanzarote , i couldnt be unplug=
ged for a week so to my girlfriends dismay I took along my KP Mini and Kaoc=
illator .......i havent had that much fun for months,  the two work so well=
 together building simple loops on the 'ocilator and passing them throught =
the delays of the KP mini....it got me thinking to how to solve the only pr=
oblem of the 'ociltor....only 8 beats no undos and everything getting a bit=
 to big to quick.
=20
So im now looking at buying a soundbite micro as this has four sample slots=
 and you can set the reletive times to each other (i would have one as 4bea=
t one as 8 one and16 and one 32 but thats just me) plus a load of other coo=
ls stuff...
the only thing i was wondering was, does it function like a normal looper w=
ith one button push starting record then the next stopping it when ever i w=
ant to begin looping, or is it more like the kaossicators looper when every=
thing is goverened by bmp and that has to be set first...this is less intui=
tive for me as a musician but i can see how it would work for a dj.
=20
anyone else got anything to add, likes , dislikes etc... are the bigger cyc=
loops and soundbites battery powerable?
=20
cheers
Phill
_________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the next generation of Windows Live
http://www.windowslive.co.uk/get-live=

--_d0b80aa5-37c1-4355-8ce4-ecc29b8208f4_
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<html>
<head>
<style>
.hmmessage P
{
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}
body.hmmessage
{
FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma
}
</style>
</head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>Hi all</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I just got back from my holidays surfing in Lanzarote , i couldnt be u=
nplugged for a week so to my girlfriends dismay I took along my KP Mini and=
 Kaocillator .......i havent had that much fun for months,&nbsp; the two wo=
rk so well together building simple loops on the 'ocilator and passing them=
 throught the delays of the KP mini....it got me thinking to how to solve t=
he only problem of the 'ociltor....only 8 beats no undos and everything get=
ting a bit to big to quick.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>So im now looking at buying a soundbite micro as this has four sample =
slots and you can set the reletive times to each other (i would have one as=
 4beat one as 8 one and16 and one 32 but thats just me) plus a load of othe=
r cools stuff...</DIV>
<DIV>the only thing i was wondering was, does it function like a normal loo=
per with one button push starting record then the next stopping it when eve=
r i want to begin looping, or is it more like the kaossicators looper when =
everything is goverened by bmp and that has to be set first...this is less =
intuitive for me as a musician but i can see how it would work for a dj.</D=
IV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>anyone else got anything to add, likes , dislikes etc... are the bigge=
r cycloops and soundbites battery powerable?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>cheers</DIV>
<DIV>Phill</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><br /><hr />
Have you played Fishticuffs?
 <a href=3D'http://www.fishticuffs.co.uk' target=3D'_new'>Get fish-slapping=
 on Messenger</a></body>
</html>=

--_d0b80aa5-37c1-4355-8ce4-ecc29b8208f4_--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 14 14:09:26 2008
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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:09:25 -0400
From: "Todd Lainhart" <tlainhart@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: George Lewis' "Improvised Music..."
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Hi Kris -

Thanks for your kind offer of sending out the PDF on improvisation.  I'd
also like to get a copy, if you can spare the send.

If you like, I can also host a link to it on my website (hidden somewhere on
the server).

thanks!  -- Todd

-------------------------------------
 Anyone read the George Lewis' "Improvised Music after 1950"?  Unbelievably
earth-shaking, pivotal, and paradigm shifting work in light of the history
of improvisation....recommended reading to me by Jeff Kaiser. I have a PDF
copy for anyone interested.

...but it's pretty damn cool that science is starting to show that us
improvisers having something unique going on in our brains when we play.

Kris

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Hi Kris -<br><br>Thanks for your kind offer of sending out the PDF on improvisation.&nbsp; I&#39;d also like to get a copy, if you can spare the send.<br><br>If you like, I can also host a link to it on my website (hidden somewhere on the server).<br>
<br>thanks!&nbsp; -- Todd<br><br>-------------------------------------<br>&nbsp;Anyone read the George Lewis&#39; &quot;Improvised Music after 1950&quot;?
&nbsp;Unbelievably earth-shaking, pivotal, and paradigm shifting work in
light of the history of improvisation....recommended reading to me by
Jeff Kaiser. I have a PDF copy for anyone interested.<br>

<br>
...but it&#39;s pretty damn cool that science is starting to show that us
improvisers having something unique going on in our brains when we play.<br>
<br>
Kris<br>

------=_Part_4278_5198873.1208182165522--

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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:36:28 -0400
From: "Tony K" <bigtonyk@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: camcorder (was bad news, good news, bad news)
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Thanks for the thoughts on formats.  I'll probably wind up getting another
handycam off of ebay to transfer my D8 tapes. After that, probably miniDV.
I'm just not sure about the compression and all the other nit picky stuff
with dvd or hd.

I wound up borrowing a friends Hi8 handycam for the weekend gymnastics
meet.  Good thing, since my daughter won first place on floor for the Region
7 (PA,NJ,DE,MD,VA, WV) area.  I'd have been in the doghouse for a long time
if I hadn't gotten that on tape!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hovmdjFwE4

I hadn't realized that the newer cameras had such good anti-jitter in them
til I used an older model.  I thought I was a lot steadier than that! :)
Turns out it wasn't my steady hands!  haha

Thanks again,
Tony

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 6:14 AM, Goddard, Duncan <goddard.duncan@mtvne.com>
wrote:

> >>Duncan?  What's your take on this level of camcorder media?<<
>
> tape will be around so long as there's someone still breathing in sony's
> consumer division. one thing they hate to do is sell you something &
> have you walk away, not needing them for anything else.
>
> every time we think "tape is dead", even in the broadcast world where
> large files are routinely transcoded, converted & exchanged amongst
> systems many miles apart, people still love the feel of a nice warm
> cassette when they've spent all day editing at $300/hour or whatever.
>
> but I digress. on a purely practical note, it's much easier & cheaper to
> carry a bag of new or used spare tapes than it is to carry a spare
> hard-drive or memory stick. dv stock is quite hardy & withstands re-use
> quite well. it's also much easier to find in weird, out-of-the-way
> locations. sony & the big stock manufacturers have taken care of that!
>
> I caution against HD-DV for broadcast use, but only because it isn't
> really HD, & will fall foul of distributor guidelines concerning native
> resolution & the like. otherwise, it's amazing bang-for-buck.
> mini-DV is an excellent format, frequently let down by the quality of
> the lenses it's shot through, & the poor production-values that often
> attend low-cost technology. the sony vx-1000 is a design-classic, in my
> view...
>
> (I could spend all day on this, but I have to write a delivery
> specification document for HD material......)
>
> duncan.
>

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Thanks for the thoughts on formats.&nbsp; I&#39;ll probably wind up getting another handycam off of ebay to transfer my D8 tapes. After that, probably miniDV.&nbsp; I&#39;m just not sure about the compression and all the other nit picky stuff with dvd or hd.&nbsp; <br>
<br>I wound up borrowing a friends Hi8 handycam for the weekend gymnastics meet.&nbsp; Good thing, since my daughter won first place on floor for the Region 7 (PA,NJ,DE,MD,VA, WV) area.&nbsp; I&#39;d have been in the doghouse for a long time if I hadn&#39;t gotten that on tape!&nbsp; <br>
<br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hovmdjFwE4">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hovmdjFwE4</a><br><br>I hadn&#39;t realized that the newer cameras had such good anti-jitter in them til I used an older model.&nbsp; I thought I was a lot steadier than that! :)&nbsp; Turns out it wasn&#39;t my steady hands!&nbsp; haha<br>
<br>Thanks again,<br>Tony<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 6:14 AM, Goddard, Duncan &lt;<a href="mailto:goddard.duncan@mtvne.com">goddard.duncan@mtvne.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
&gt;&gt;Duncan? &nbsp;What&#39;s your take on this level of camcorder media?&lt;&lt;<br>
<br>
tape will be around so long as there&#39;s someone still breathing in sony&#39;s<br>
consumer division. one thing they hate to do is sell you something &amp;<br>
have you walk away, not needing them for anything else.<br>
<br>
every time we think &quot;tape is dead&quot;, even in the broadcast world where<br>
large files are routinely transcoded, converted &amp; exchanged amongst<br>
systems many miles apart, people still love the feel of a nice warm<br>
cassette when they&#39;ve spent all day editing at $300/hour or whatever.<br>
<br>
but I digress. on a purely practical note, it&#39;s much easier &amp; cheaper to<br>
carry a bag of new or used spare tapes than it is to carry a spare<br>
hard-drive or memory stick. dv stock is quite hardy &amp; withstands re-use<br>
quite well. it&#39;s also much easier to find in weird, out-of-the-way<br>
locations. sony &amp; the big stock manufacturers have taken care of that!<br>
<br>
I caution against HD-DV for broadcast use, but only because it isn&#39;t<br>
really HD, &amp; will fall foul of distributor guidelines concerning native<br>
resolution &amp; the like. otherwise, it&#39;s amazing bang-for-buck.<br>
mini-DV is an excellent format, frequently let down by the quality of<br>
the lenses it&#39;s shot through, &amp; the poor production-values that often<br>
attend low-cost technology. the sony vx-1000 is a design-classic, in my<br>
view...<br>
<br>
(I could spend all day on this, but I have to write a delivery<br>
specification document for HD material......)<br>
<br>
duncan.<br>
</blockquote></div><br>

------=_Part_43704_17266121.1208183788059--

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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:53:27 -0400
From: "Dennis Moser" <sinsofmachaut@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: 5/23: private party
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Hey Tom! Eskerrik asko!

(Never give a librarian break when it comes to things like this...)

Best,

Dennis

On 4/14/08, Tom Ritchford <tom@swirly.com> wrote:
> I should add that I've gotten more response from this announcement than any
> other gig announcement I ever sent out (typical reply: include me in).
>
> We're just doing a gig to test out our new show on 5/23 and I want to keep
> it private just because the space is fairly small and intimate (and because
> I want to get people I know to see it so we can get brutal criticism).   I
> got the confirm and just sent out a quick note without much thought behind
> it.
>
> Very instructive.  Next time I'll send out just a symbol ("The gig formerly
> known as Tom Swirly's Psych-o-delic Circus") and only respond in Basque.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 10:03 AM, Tom Ritchford <tom@swirly.com> wrote:
>
> > Not at all!  Gee/hmph.  I've been a member of Looper's Delight since the
> 50s, when we used to loop with a hacked Victrola using knitting needles for
> playback.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 8:11 PM, Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I thought it was just creepy spam.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Apr 13, 2008, at 2:21 PM, Tom Ritchford wrote:
> > >
> > > > We haven't finalized that part but I'd hardly be surprised.  I wasn't
> > > > intending to be so cryptic, but now that I was.... :-D
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 1:39 PM, stevenguerrero
> > > > <mesquamacus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >> Very Cryptic. Will there be masks?
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --- Tom Ritchford <tom@swirly.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> please keep 5/23 open for a very special private
> > > >>> party.  drop me a
> > > >>> line for more details.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> --
> > > >>>     /t
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>  www.myspace.com/mesqua
> > > >>  www.reverbnation.com/stevenguerrero
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> __________________________________________________
> > > >> Do You Yahoo!?
> > > >> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > >> http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > /t
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >     /t
> >
>
>
>
> --
>      /t
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 14 15:03:45 2008
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Subject: Re: Cycloops / Soundbite Micro
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At 2:07 PM +0000 4/14/08, phillip wilson wrote:
>
>So im now looking at buying a soundbite micro... [snip]
>the only thing i was wondering was, does it function like a normal 
>looper with one button push starting record then the next stopping 
>it when ever i want to begin looping, or is it more like the 
>kaossicators looper when everything is goverened by bmp and that has 
>to be set first...this is less intuitive for me as a musician but i 
>can see how it would work for a dj.

I picked up a Soundbite Micro a few months back, most likely 
following the same train of thought you've probably got.  I'd been 
looking for another cheap & tiny looper for a portable setup, and I 
was trying to decide between this and the Boss RC-2.  In short, I 
should've gone with the Boss.  I've now got the Micro sitting in a 
pile of stuff I was supposed to have Ebay'd (but didn't have time) 
before leaving the States.

Your latter concern in the quote above hits its biggest Achilles heel 
right on the head (or, er, foot, as the case may be).  It's locked 
into BPM for pretty much anything you do, which makes it rather 
aggravating for use as a "free looper".  There is tap tempo, but it's 
rather iffy to get into the right ballpark.  You've got to go through 
a process to set loop length and tempo before even thinking about 
recording.  Not much for spontaneity.

Also, another big aggravation was the feel of the UI.  You need to 
have at least one hand free and dedicated to operate it properly; I 
couldn't find a way (short of tearing it open and getting out the 
soldering gun) around this.  The little membrane switches are pretty 
much useless for manipulation by any other appendage (ummmm, I'm 
thinking about toes but, hey, if your imagination wants to go there 
too... it's all good).

What else?  Oh, levels are auto-set.  No way 'round it, so forget 
about fine tuning the gain staging for your setup.  Also, there's no 
mix output.  The outs are Loop Only and Dry Only, so you've got to do 
some summing at the mixer to get the loop and instrument out the same 
bus.

I also remember a big aggravation with the slots, and the length 
values that you could possibly preset them to.  There's not a whole 
lot of latitude there -- you can only change the default slot length 
by some way too restrictive factor -- so this plays hell with trying 
to set up anything creative.  The first slot is stuck at such a short 
interval as to be pretty much useless, IIRC.  And the last slot was 
too long for most of the loops I was trying to put together.

That wouldn't be so big a deal, except that there's no overdub or 
undo.  You're expected to just use another slot.  But if, for 
instance, you wanted to get around that by simply assigning 4 bars to 
all 4 slots... nope, not possible.  Can't configure all (or, really, 
more than two) slots to the same length.  Oh, and there's no 
odd-metered multiples at all, so forget about polyrhythms. 
Everything is a straight derivative of good ole 4/4 (no triplets, 
even).  No feedback control either, but you probably knew that.

And navigating between the different slots isn't much fun either.  I 
always had trouble muting and/or switching between the different 
loops after I'd had them recorded.

Okay, I don't want this to be a complete slam-fest, especially since 
this is really designed as a DJ tool.  You can see, though, that it 
really is aimed at the DJ market.  To be honest, its beat detect is 
pretty good.  While playing acoustic licks (with no obvious beat) it 
was almost as good at correctly picking up the tempo on its own as it 
was by using the tap tempo (don't get too excited though; as I 
mentioned, the tap tempo was no great shakes).  I would imagine that 
with a real "four-on-the-floor" beat, it should be able to nail the 
tempo straight out.  And it does a really good job with the 
time-stretch function.  Unfortunately, you really have to use the tap 
tempo or beat detect to track that.  And it outputs MIDI Clock based 
on the beat detect, so it could prove to be a nice little studio tool 
for that function alone.

But, like you, I thought I might take a gamble and see how it could 
perform with an application (Live Looping) that it wasn't really 
designed for.  I'd say I got burned (but, eh, it happens).  It really 
is not a standard looping tool, and is optimized almost completely 
for DJ performance.  Unless that happens to be the type of gig you're 
doing, I'd give it a pass.

	--m.
-- 
_____
"Image is blasphemy. Text is heresy. The spoken word is a lie."
	( x ) <--- you are here.

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Subject: RE: George Lewis' "Improvised Music..."
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Hi Kris, I too am interested in the pdf. Very timely as I've been
pondering how much of my time to put into learning standards  vs.
concentrating on the much more out stuff... not that they are mutually
exclusive or not cross-fertilizing, of course...

=20

I noticed that I don't recognize anything on your recent listening CD
list that involves live electronic manipulation, though some of the
folks you list have of course been involved in that, for instance Evan
Parker and his Electro-Acoustic Ensemble and Lewis himself perhaps...
but maybe the handful with which I am not familiar do. Voltage? Dempa?
Lewis with Muhal and Roscoe?  =20

=20

Hal Dean

=20

From: Todd Lainhart [mailto:tlainhart@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 10:09 AM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: George Lewis' "Improvised Music..."

=20

Hi Kris -

Thanks for your kind offer of sending out the PDF on improvisation.  I'd
also like to get a copy, if you can spare the send.

If you like, I can also host a link to it on my website (hidden
somewhere on the server).

thanks!  -- Todd

-------------------------------------
 Anyone read the George Lewis' "Improvised Music after 1950"?
Unbelievably earth-shaking, pivotal, and paradigm shifting work in light
of the history of improvisation....recommended reading to me by Jeff
Kaiser. I have a PDF copy for anyone interested.

...but it's pretty damn cool that science is starting to show that us
improvisers having something unique going on in our brains when we play.

Kris


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi Kris, I too am interested in the pdf. Very timely as =
I&#8217;ve
been pondering how much of my time to put into learning standards =
&nbsp;vs. concentrating
on the much more out stuff&#8230; not that they are mutually exclusive =
or not
cross-fertilizing, of course&#8230;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I noticed that I don&#8217;t recognize anything on your =
recent
listening CD list that involves live electronic manipulation, though =
some of the
folks you list have of course been involved in that, for instance Evan =
Parker
and his Electro-Acoustic Ensemble and Lewis himself perhaps&#8230; but =
maybe the
handful with which I am not familiar do. Voltage? Dempa? Lewis with =
Muhal and
Roscoe? &nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><span =
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color:#1F497D'>Hal Dean</span></i><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Palatino Linotype","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
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</b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Todd =
Lainhart
[mailto:tlainhart@gmail.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 14, 2008 10:09 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> George Lewis' &quot;Improvised =
Music...&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi Kris -<br>
<br>
Thanks for your kind offer of sending out the PDF on =
improvisation.&nbsp; I'd
also like to get a copy, if you can spare the send.<br>
<br>
If you like, I can also host a link to it on my website (hidden =
somewhere on
the server).<br>
<br>
thanks!&nbsp; -- Todd<br>
<br>
-------------------------------------<br>
&nbsp;Anyone read the George Lewis' &quot;Improvised Music after =
1950&quot;?
&nbsp;Unbelievably earth-shaking, pivotal, and paradigm shifting work in =
light
of the history of improvisation....recommended reading to me by Jeff =
Kaiser. I
have a PDF copy for anyone interested.<br>
<br>
...but it's pretty damn cool that science is starting to show that us
improvisers having something unique going on in our brains when we =
play.<br>
<br>
Kris<o:p></o:p></p>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 14 15:20:26 2008
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Subject: Re:Reverse Delays - how do they work?
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> Rainer wrote:
> I just spent some time thinking about reverse delays, which several box=
es do
> offer (among them, to take a few devices used often among loopers, the =
Line6
> DL4, the TC Electronics D2, the Boss DD20 and the EH SMM w/ Hazari).
...
> I believe (due to the availability of a trigger threshold), this is the=
 way
> the D2 works.
...
> Are you using reverse delays at all?

Hi Rainer, 
Interesting topic. I currently use a TC D2 in my live setup but it's not =
easy to understand how to program and control the reverse delay. The D2 s=
ounds completely different than the DD20 which I also have. But according=
 to the manual, it should be possible to re-trigger the reverse delay fro=
m the input signal and/or the feedback and choose different reverse style=
s.

Sjaak=0A

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 14 15:49:52 2008
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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:49:48 -0500
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Axshally, it does say in the vid you can use a remote stereo switch to 
engage the reverse (as well as the looper). Yup, no presettability though.

I like all the switches and knobs, and being able to use the multi-taps 
to effect a recorded loop.

Bonus points for the Golden Ratio switch.

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com

> it does look and sound great... not sure i'd pay 469 for it, as i 
> can't engage reverse remotely or save any presets, really..., but for 
> a boutique delay pedal, or a quasi-all in one chorus, delay, 
> overdrive, I'd love to have one in my chain.  (of course i'm a 
> hypocrite, as i'm mostly a software guy whose hardware gland just 
> happens to be a little active right now, lol.)
>
> t

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 14 15:57:09 2008
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I'd like a copy too!

-- 
* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com


Todd Lainhart wrote:
> Hi Kris -
>
> Thanks for your kind offer of sending out the PDF on improvisation.  
> I'd also like to get a copy, if you can spare the send.
>
> If you like, I can also host a link to it on my website (hidden 
> somewhere on the server).
>
> thanks!  -- Todd
>
> -------------------------------------
>  Anyone read the George Lewis' "Improvised Music after 1950"? 
>  Unbelievably earth-shaking, pivotal, and paradigm shifting work in 
> light of the history of improvisation....recommended reading to me by 
> Jeff Kaiser. I have a PDF copy for anyone interested.
>
> ...but it's pretty damn cool that science is starting to show that us 
> improvisers having something unique going on in our brains when we play.
>
> Kris


-- 
* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 14 16:00:59 2008
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myself as well, hopefully you'll just send to the group here...

thanks Kris

Jim
www.jimgoodinmusic.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com



On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 11:53 AM, David Beardsley <db@biink.com> wrote:

> I'd like a copy too!
>
> --
> * David Beardsley
> * http://biink.com
>
>
>
> Todd Lainhart wrote:
>
> > Hi Kris -
> >
> > Thanks for your kind offer of sending out the PDF on improvisation.  I'd
> > also like to get a copy, if you can spare the send.
> >
> > If you like, I can also host a link to it on my website (hidden
> > somewhere on the server).
> >
> > thanks!  -- Todd
> >
> > -------------------------------------
> >  Anyone read the George Lewis' "Improvised Music after 1950"?
> >  Unbelievably earth-shaking, pivotal, and paradigm shifting work in light of
> > the history of improvisation....recommended reading to me by Jeff Kaiser. I
> > have a PDF copy for anyone interested.
> >
> > ...but it's pretty damn cool that science is starting to show that us
> > improvisers having something unique going on in our brains when we play.
> >
> > Kris
> >
>
>
> --
> * David Beardsley
> * http://biink.com
>
>
>


-- 
The Acoustic World Guitar of Jim Goodin - http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com
MySpace (solo) - http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic
Chinapainting -
http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com
Chinapainting on My Space -
http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com
The Jim Goodin label and home for 7 other creative souls -
http://www.woodandwiremusic.com
Jim Goodin uses GHS Strings - http://www.ghsstrings.com and Seagull Guitars
- http://www.seagullguitars.com, Jim Goodin is published by Mel Bay
Publications, Inc. - http://www.melbay.com

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<div>myself as well, hopefully you&#39;ll just send to the group here...</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>thanks Kris</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Jim</div>
<div><a href="http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com/">www.jimgoodinmusic.com</a></div>
<div><a href="http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com/">www.chinapaintingmusic.com</a></div>
<div><br><br>&nbsp;</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 11:53 AM, David Beardsley &lt;<a href="mailto:db@biink.com">db@biink.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">I&#39;d like a copy too!<br><br>-- <br>* David Beardsley<br>* <a href="http://biink.com/" target="_blank">http://biink.com</a> 
<div>
<div></div>
<div class="Wj3C7c"><br><br><br>Todd Lainhart wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Hi Kris -<br><br>Thanks for your kind offer of sending out the PDF on improvisation. &nbsp;I&#39;d also like to get a copy, if you can spare the send.<br>
<br>If you like, I can also host a link to it on my website (hidden somewhere on the server).<br><br>thanks! &nbsp;-- Todd<br><br>-------------------------------------<br>&nbsp;Anyone read the George Lewis&#39; &quot;Improvised Music after 1950&quot;? &nbsp;Unbelievably earth-shaking, pivotal, and paradigm shifting work in light of the history of improvisation....recommended reading to me by Jeff Kaiser. I have a PDF copy for anyone interested.<br>
<br>...but it&#39;s pretty damn cool that science is starting to show that us improvisers having something unique going on in our brains when we play.<br><br>Kris<br></blockquote><br><br></div></div><font color="#888888">-- <br>
* David Beardsley<br>* <a href="http://biink.com/" target="_blank">http://biink.com</a><br><br><br></font></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>The Acoustic World Guitar of Jim Goodin - <a href="http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com">http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com</a><br>
MySpace (solo) - <a href="http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic">http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic</a><br>Chinapainting -<br><a href="http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com">http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com</a><br>Chinapainting on My Space -<br>
<a href="http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com">http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com</a><br>The Jim Goodin label and home for 7 other creative souls - <a href="http://www.woodandwiremusic.com">http://www.woodandwiremusic.com</a> <br>
Jim Goodin uses GHS Strings - <a href="http://www.ghsstrings.com">http://www.ghsstrings.com</a> and Seagull Guitars - <a href="http://www.seagullguitars.com">http://www.seagullguitars.com</a>, Jim Goodin is published by Mel Bay Publications, Inc. - <a href="http://www.melbay.com">http://www.melbay.com</a> 

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To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <8feb287a0804140709x31b91c21mc76c60bbe93be273@mail.gmail.com> <48037E13.6080805@biink.com> <9e0440a60804140900m65a32b2bv230edc4ff537605f@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: George Lewis' "Improvised Music..."
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I'd like a copy too please. Sound's very interesting!

Ricky

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Jim Goodin=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 5:00 PM
  Subject: Re: George Lewis' "Improvised Music..."


  myself as well, hopefully you'll just send to the group here...

  thanks Kris

  Jim
  www.jimgoodinmusic.com
  www.chinapaintingmusic.com


  =20
  On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 11:53 AM, David Beardsley <db@biink.com> =
wrote:

    I'd like a copy too!

    --=20
    * David Beardsley
    * http://biink.com=20



    Todd Lainhart wrote:

      Hi Kris -

      Thanks for your kind offer of sending out the PDF on =
improvisation.  I'd also like to get a copy, if you can spare the send.

      If you like, I can also host a link to it on my website (hidden =
somewhere on the server).

      thanks!  -- Todd

      -------------------------------------
       Anyone read the George Lewis' "Improvised Music after 1950"?  =
Unbelievably earth-shaking, pivotal, and paradigm shifting work in light =
of the history of improvisation....recommended reading to me by Jeff =
Kaiser. I have a PDF copy for anyone interested.

      ...but it's pretty damn cool that science is starting to show that =
us improvisers having something unique going on in our brains when we =
play.

      Kris




    --=20
    * David Beardsley
    * http://biink.com






  --=20
  The Acoustic World Guitar of Jim Goodin - =
http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com
  MySpace (solo) - http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic
  Chinapainting -
  http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com
  Chinapainting on My Space -
  http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com
  The Jim Goodin label and home for 7 other creative souls - =
http://www.woodandwiremusic.com=20
  Jim Goodin uses GHS Strings - http://www.ghsstrings.com and Seagull =
Guitars - http://www.seagullguitars.com, Jim Goodin is published by Mel =
Bay Publications, Inc. - http://www.melbay.com=20


-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----


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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'd like a copy too please. Sound's =
very=20
interesting!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ricky</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Djimgoodinmusic@gmail.com =
href=3D"mailto:jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com">Jim=20
  Goodin</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, April 14, 2008 =
5:00=20
PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: George Lewis' =
"Improvised=20
  Music..."</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>myself as well, hopefully you'll just send to the group =
here...</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>thanks Kris</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Jim</DIV>
  <DIV><A =
href=3D"http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com">www.jimgoodinmusic.com</A></DIV>
  <DIV><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com">www.chinapaintingmusic.com</A>=
</DIV>
  <DIV><BR><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 11:53 AM, David =
Beardsley=20
  &lt;<A href=3D"mailto:db@biink.com">db@biink.com</A>&gt; wrote:<BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
#ccc 1px solid">I'd=20
    like a copy too!<BR><BR>-- <BR>* David Beardsley<BR>* <A=20
    href=3D"http://biink.com" target=3D_blank>http://biink.com</A>=20
    <DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV class=3DWj3C7c><BR><BR><BR>Todd Lainhart wrote:<BR>
    <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
    style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px =
solid">Hi=20
      Kris -<BR><BR>Thanks for your kind offer of sending out the PDF on =

      improvisation. &nbsp;I'd also like to get a copy, if you can spare =
the=20
      send.<BR><BR>If you like, I can also host a link to it on my =
website=20
      (hidden somewhere on the server).<BR><BR>thanks! &nbsp;--=20
      Todd<BR><BR>-------------------------------------<BR>&nbsp;Anyone =
read the=20
      George Lewis' "Improvised Music after 1950"? &nbsp;Unbelievably=20
      earth-shaking, pivotal, and paradigm shifting work in light of the =
history=20
      of improvisation....recommended reading to me by Jeff Kaiser. I =
have a PDF=20
      copy for anyone interested.<BR><BR>...but it's pretty damn cool =
that=20
      science is starting to show that us improvisers having something =
unique=20
      going on in our brains when we=20
    play.<BR><BR>Kris<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR></DIV></DIV><FONT =
color=3D#888888>--=20
    <BR>* David Beardsley<BR>* <A href=3D"http://biink.com/"=20
    =
target=3D_blank>http://biink.com</A><BR><BR><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV=
><BR><BR=20
  clear=3Dall><BR>-- <BR>The Acoustic World Guitar of Jim Goodin - <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com">http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com</A><=
BR>MySpace=20
  (solo) - <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic">http://www.myspace.com/jim=
goodinmusic</A><BR>Chinapainting=20
  -<BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com">http://www.chinapaintingmusic.=
com</A><BR>Chinapainting=20
  on My Space -<BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com">http://www.myspace=
.com/chinapaintingmusic.com</A><BR>The=20
  Jim Goodin label and home for 7 other creative souls - <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.woodandwiremusic.com">http://www.woodandwiremusic.com<=
/A>=20
  <BR>Jim Goodin uses GHS Strings - <A=20
  href=3D"http://www.ghsstrings.com">http://www.ghsstrings.com</A> and =
Seagull=20
  Guitars - <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.seagullguitars.com">http://www.seagullguitars.com</A>,=
 Jim=20
  Goodin is published by Mel Bay Publications, Inc. - <A=20
  href=3D"http://www.melbay.com">http://www.melbay.com</A>=20
  <P>
  <HR>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 14 17:02:32 2008
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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 13:00:49 -0400
From: Donearlsto <donearlsto@aol.com>
Subject: EDP Set Tempo Click Track
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--56c8588b-71c9-421b-a228-4e388c9e8927
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hello all, 
According to the manual, after setting a tempo via SetTempo, a signal is sent out of the Beat Sync Jack that can act as a "click track."  When I do this, however, all I get is a click at the start of each loop cycle, not for each beat.  Is there a way to send the "click" for each quarter, rather than only at the beginning of each cycle?   Perhaps I have a setting incorrect? Any help is appreciated. 

Donovan Stokes

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<DIV>Hello all, </DIV>
<DIV>According to the manual, after setting a tempo via SetTempo, a signal i=
s sent out of the Beat Sync Jack that can act as a "click track."&nbsp; When=
 I do this, however, all I get is a click at the start of each loop cycle, n=
ot for each beat.&nbsp; Is there a way to send the "click" for each quarter,=
 rather than only at the beginning of each cycle?&nbsp;&nbsp; Perhaps I have=
 a setting incorrect? Any help is appreciated. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Donovan Stokes</DIV>
<DIV CLASS=3D"aol_ad_footer" ID=3D"u155286fdf5284be59376cf9d5a0714b5"><FONT=20=
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--56c8588b-71c9-421b-a228-4e388c9e8927--

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Dennis thanks so much.  This is interesting and the podcast/webstream
explanation I was partly hip to just wondered if SL was true "live" and it
sounds like it is in a great way.  It reminds me of a webstream/live house
concert I was part of 4 years ago when a project I was 1/3 of called Langua=
ge
of 3 <http://www.myspace.com/languageof3> appeared on the now defunct *
ArtMusicCoffeeHouse.com* (link no goes to non-related source) which was a
wonderful idea ran by synthisist/composer Don
Slepian<http://www.donslepian.com/>.
For a period of time Don ran a house concert weekly from his then home in
Lebanon NJ with a different guest(s) each episode.  He invited @10 physical
guests to be the audience for each week's house concert and
simulcasted/webstreamed the experience at the same time to the world
(believe he used GarageRadio.com to channel through).  It was a wonderful
evening that March night that my project participated, some of which is
documented on a new CD by my partner in the Language of 3, *Matt
Richards*on his new release One
in Mind <http://www.mattrichardsmusic.net/>.

SL sounds like something I need to look into as it does not appear to have
limited listening connections akin to using a web radio like Live365.com
based on subscription cost or does it?  I've not explored the resource
deeply yet but it looks like a very cool option particularly when I'm
feeling tapped at times on physical venues.

Re Stillstream was exploring it and started the submission process to
discover that because I"m affiliated with BMI I can't get webplay from them
which does make sense though it does seem a two handed sword as originally
affiliation with BMI/ASCAP etc was viewed as a good thing but it may be in
this newer virtual frontier that it's not.
http://stillstream.com/submissions-step2.php?action=3Doops
Anyhow congrats on your success like this and please let me know when you
have another show on SL as I'd like to check out what you do and the SL
experience.

Your NinJam experience reminds me of my first encounter with Y2K Loop Fest
in 06 when it included live NJ sessions from around the planet, as good as
it was to be physically live at this past year's event, that day in 06 was
equally cool.  That day gave birth to Chinapainting really, as following
that Daryl and I continued to work through NinJam to this day at least 2
times a month.  Very grateful for that technology.

Thanks for all the details on this and keep me posted on what you are doing
on SL, can add to your mailing list jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com.

Jim
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Dennis Moser <sinsofmachaut@gmail.com>
wrote:

> For some reason, my posting got delayed for some folks. Anyhow ...
>
> Jim: The difference between SL and a webcast or a podcast ... a
> podcast is a "fixed" file, i.e., it is recorded and then available
> from a "permanent" location, either a single URL or a website with
> multiple listings of other podcasts,each with their own URIs. A
> webcast is a URL pointing to a server that will stream a file. That
> file may be pre-recorded (as in, using the file from a podcast) or a
> live transmission (like we did for the electro-music New Year's Eve
> performances, or what Darrell Burgan does each Saturday night for his
> Blue Water Drift Dive over at stillstream.com ...).
>
> In general usage, a podacst is static and may consist of multiple
> files over time (each perhaps representing unique performances). A
> webcast is generally seen as the streaming of a "live"
> situation/broadcast, though in the case of "web radio" that stream may
> be "recorded" files.
>
> Sometimes the distinctions are a little on the whiffy side of semantic
> shading!
>
> Second Life takes advantage of both. In my case, it is more analogous
> to a webcast, as I am performing the work live in my humble 2nd
> bedroom studio, feeding the audio into an interface of a computer,
> streaming the results out to an aggregating server which then feeds
> the audio into SL. The "live performance" aspect kicks in once I log
> on to the Second Life environment, where my avatar is doing an
> animation of playing a guitar (a Fender; working on getting a copy of
> my Godin made!) in front of an audience of other avatars who are
> logged in, literally, from all over the world. During breaks in
> playing, I can interact with the audience via typed Chat or Instant
> Message and through voice via the webstream.
>
> Last November, I did a live performance on stage at Princeton
> University; this was a "simulcast" into Second Life, with a feed in of
> both audio and video, along with my avatar being present.  This is the
> second time I have tried something like this (the first being at the
> "@ Lab" of Ohio University last Spring to inaugurate their new Second
> Life performance space). There is a growing number of people looking
> at this latter kind of virtual performance of combining live audio and
> video feeds in to SL from their real world performances.
>
> Most recently, I have done a session, using ninjam, with a group of
> performers scattered between Chicago, Boston, Munich and Berlin,
> Germany  and Sk=F6ndal, Sweden (I hope I types right!) with the ninjam
> server streaming our combined audio into SL, where our avatars are.
> For a group like Chinapainting, this might offer some interesting
> possibilities.
>
> Hope this helps and gives some ideas ... let me know if I can assist.
>
> Dennis
>
> On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Jim Goodin <jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Dennis I'm just now seeing this.  Is this (SL) different from a web
> >  cast or podcast, is it in theory 'live'?  We [Daryl] and I were at one
> >  point in that we are remote more than live in person thus far, were
> >  looking for something like what this sounds like for Chinapainting
> >  performances and have since settled for doing a  monthly podcast
> >  (http://chinapainting.podomatic.com) series..
> >
> >  It sounds a bit like one of my son's Habo Hotel things but audio only?
> >
> >  Anyhow sounds like it might be an option when the actual live market
> >  can be lean.
> >
> >  Thanks for clueing me in...
> >
> >  Jim Goodin
> >  www.jimgoodinmusic.com
> >  www.chinapaintingmusic.com
> >
> >
> >
> >  On 4/11/08, Dennis Moser <sinsofmachaut@gmail.com> wrote:
> >  > Thanks, Todd ...
> >  >
> >  >  Yes, Second Life CAN actually be a good regular gig and can provide
> a
> >  >  few extra hundred bucks per month for playing while wearing your
> >  >  pajamas, not smelling like stale beer and smoke when you finish and
> >  >  not having to worry about lugging your gear up 4 flights of stairs
> or
> >  >  having it ripped off from your car.
> >  >
> >  >  But it's like any other gig in that you have to take it seriously
> and
> >  >  work hard at giving your best to the audience.
> >  >
> >  >  Last year I think I did over 200 concerts; this year, I've scaled
> back
> >  >  considerably, but only because I have some real life projects that
> are
> >  >  keeping my hands full. I have a regular monthly concert series that
> I
> >  >  am doing this year at one particular venue (Bibi's Sky Castle, for
> the
> >  >  cognescenti!) and will probably add a couple of extra performances
> >  >  through the rest of the year.
> >  >
> >  >  There are not many folks who are self-professed Loopers performing
> in
> >  >  SL; don't know why and maybe it isn't important.
> >  >
> >  >  But if you want to share your music and are willling to spending
> some
> >  >  time developing a highly appreciative audience, then you should
> >  >  consider it. It always amazes me to see the spikes in downloads and
> CD
> >  >  sales after each performance, with more of them coming from Europe
> and
> >  >  the UK than the US ... what is it they say about a prophet not bein=
g
> >  >  appreciated in their own land?
> >  >
> >  >  If you do sign on to Second Life, feel free to drop me a notecard
> (the
> >  >  IMs get capped regularly) ... look for AldoManutio Abruzzo ...
> >  >
> >  >  Best you all,
> >  >
> >  >  ~~D.
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >  On 4/11/08, todd reynolds <toddreyn@gmail.com> wrote:
> >  >  > I'm on there (Kamerin Kokorin) and so is LD community member
> Dennis Moser,
> >  >  > but frankly, I've found it difficult to start a community there
> without
> >  >  > quite a bit of time spent, and it is HIGHLY addictive for me...
> Thanks for
> >  >  > bringing it again to the list, Jeff.
> >  >  >
> >  >  > but I did get all my live stuff working so that I could perform
> 'inworld',
> >  >  > and Dennis performs at the Princeton University performance space
> often,
> >  >  > which is a beautiful space, and Dennis has established a nice
> audience for
> >  >  > himself (everytime I've visited to watch)...
> >  >  >
> >  >  > time for a new thread for this stuff if we get into it, cuz it's =
a
> DOOZY of
> >  >  > a convo...
> >  >  >
> >  >  > Todd
>
>


--=20
The Acoustic World Guitar of Jim Goodin - http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com
MySpace (solo) - http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic
Chinapainting -
http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com
Chinapainting on My Space -
http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com
The Jim Goodin label and home for 7 other creative souls -
http://www.woodandwiremusic.com
Jim Goodin uses GHS Strings - http://www.ghsstrings.com and Seagull Guitars
- http://www.seagullguitars.com, Jim Goodin is published by Mel Bay
Publications, Inc. - http://www.melbay.com

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<div>Dennis thanks so much.&nbsp; This is interesting and the podcast/webst=
ream explanation I was partly hip to just wondered if SL was true &quot;liv=
e&quot; and it sounds like it is in a great way.&nbsp; It reminds me of a w=
ebstream/live house concert I was part of 4 years ago when a project I was =
1/3 of called <a href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/languageof3">Language of 3<=
/a> appeared on the now defunct <em>ArtMusicCoffeeHouse.com</em> (link no g=
oes to non-related source) which was a wonderful idea ran by synthisist/com=
poser <a href=3D"http://www.donslepian.com/">Don Slepian</a>.&nbsp; For&nbs=
p;a period of time&nbsp;Don ran a house concert weekly from his then home i=
n Lebanon NJ with a different guest(s) each episode.&nbsp; He invited @10 p=
hysical guests to be the audience for each week&#39;s house concert&nbsp;an=
d simulcasted/webstreamed the experience at the same time to the world (bel=
ieve he used GarageRadio.com to channel through).&nbsp; It was a wonderful =
evening that March night that my project participated, some of which is doc=
umented on a new CD by my partner in the Language of 3, <em>Matt Richards</=
em> on his new release <a href=3D"http://www.mattrichardsmusic.net/">One in=
 Mind</a>.</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>SL sounds like something I need to look into as it does not appear to =
have limited listening connections akin to using a web radio like Live365.c=
om based on subscription cost or does it?&nbsp; I&#39;ve not explored the r=
esource deeply yet but it looks like a very cool option particularly when I=
&#39;m feeling tapped at times on physical venues.</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Re Stillstream was exploring it and started the submission process to =
discover that because I&quot;m affiliated with BMI I can&#39;t get webplay =
from them which does make sense though it does seem a two handed sword as o=
riginally affiliation with BMI/ASCAP etc was viewed as a good thing but it =
may be in this newer virtual frontier that it&#39;s not.&nbsp; <a href=3D"h=
ttp://stillstream.com/submissions-step2.php?action=3Doops">http://stillstre=
am.com/submissions-step2.php?action=3Doops</a><br>
</div>
<div>Anyhow congrats on your success like this and please let me know when =
you have another show on SL as I&#39;d like to check out what you do and th=
e SL experience.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Your&nbsp;NinJam experience reminds me of my first encounter with Y2K =
Loop Fest in 06 when it included live NJ sessions from around the planet, a=
s good as it was to be physically live at this past year&#39;s event, that =
day in 06 was equally cool.&nbsp; That day gave birth to Chinapainting real=
ly, as following that Daryl and I continued to work through NinJam to this =
day at least 2 times a month.&nbsp; Very grateful for that technology.</div=
>

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Thanks for all the details on this and keep me posted on what you are =
doing on SL, can add to your mailing list <a href=3D"mailto:jimgoodinmusic@=
gmail.com">jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com</a>.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Jim<br></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Dennis Moser &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:sinsofmachaut@gmail.com">sinsofmachaut@gmail.com</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">For some reason, my posting got =
delayed for some folks. Anyhow ...<br><br>Jim: The difference between SL an=
d a webcast or a podcast ... a<br>
podcast is a &quot;fixed&quot; file, i.e., it is recorded and then availabl=
e<br>from a &quot;permanent&quot; location, either a single URL or a websit=
e with<br>multiple listings of other podcasts,each with their own URIs. A<b=
r>
webcast is a URL pointing to a server that will stream a file. That<br>file=
 may be pre-recorded (as in, using the file from a podcast) or a<br>live tr=
ansmission (like we did for the electro-music New Year&#39;s Eve<br>perform=
ances, or what Darrell Burgan does each Saturday night for his<br>
Blue Water Drift Dive over at <a href=3D"http://stillstream.com/" target=3D=
"_blank">stillstream.com</a> ...).<br><br>In general usage, a podacst is st=
atic and may consist of multiple<br>files over time (each perhaps represent=
ing unique performances). A<br>
webcast is generally seen as the streaming of a &quot;live&quot;<br>situati=
on/broadcast, though in the case of &quot;web radio&quot; that stream may<b=
r>be &quot;recorded&quot; files.<br><br>Sometimes the distinctions are a li=
ttle on the whiffy side of semantic shading!<br>
<br>Second Life takes advantage of both. In my case, it is more analogous<b=
r>to a webcast, as I am performing the work live in my humble 2nd<br>bedroo=
m studio, feeding the audio into an interface of a computer,<br>streaming t=
he results out to an aggregating server which then feeds<br>
the audio into SL. The &quot;live performance&quot; aspect kicks in once I =
log<br>on to the Second Life environment, where my avatar is doing an<br>an=
imation of playing a guitar (a Fender; working on getting a copy of<br>
my Godin made!) in front of an audience of other avatars who are<br>logged =
in, literally, from all over the world. During breaks in<br>playing, I can =
interact with the audience via typed Chat or Instant<br>Message and through=
 voice via the webstream.<br>
<br>Last November, I did a live performance on stage at Princeton<br>Univer=
sity; this was a &quot;simulcast&quot; into Second Life, with a feed in of<=
br>both audio and video, along with my avatar being present. &nbsp;This is =
the<br>
second time I have tried something like this (the first being at the<br>&qu=
ot;@ Lab&quot; of Ohio University last Spring to inaugurate their new Secon=
d<br>Life performance space). There is a growing number of people looking<b=
r>
at this latter kind of virtual performance of combining live audio and<br>v=
ideo feeds in to SL from their real world performances.<br><br>Most recentl=
y, I have done a session, using ninjam, with a group of<br>performers scatt=
ered between Chicago, Boston, Munich and Berlin,<br>
Germany &nbsp;and Sk=F6ndal, Sweden (I hope I types right!) with the ninjam=
<br>server streaming our combined audio into SL, where our avatars are.<br>=
For a group like Chinapainting, this might offer some interesting<br>possib=
ilities.<br>
<br>Hope this helps and gives some ideas ... let me know if I can assist.<b=
r><font color=3D"#888888"><br>Dennis<br></font>
<div>
<div></div>
<div class=3D"Wj3C7c"><br>On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Jim Goodin &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com">jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com</a>&gt;=
 wrote:<br>&gt; Dennis I&#39;m just now seeing this. &nbsp;Is this (SL) dif=
ferent from a web<br>
&gt; &nbsp;cast or podcast, is it in theory &#39;live&#39;? &nbsp;We [Daryl=
] and I were at one<br>&gt; &nbsp;point in that we are remote more than liv=
e in person thus far, were<br>&gt; &nbsp;looking for something like what th=
is sounds like for Chinapainting<br>
&gt; &nbsp;performances and have since settled for doing a &nbsp;monthly po=
dcast<br>&gt; &nbsp;(<a href=3D"http://chinapainting.podomatic.com/" target=
=3D"_blank">http://chinapainting.podomatic.com</a>) series..<br>&gt;<br>&gt=
; &nbsp;It sounds a bit like one of my son&#39;s Habo Hotel things but audi=
o only?<br>
&gt;<br>&gt; &nbsp;Anyhow sounds like it might be an option when the actual=
 live market<br>&gt; &nbsp;can be lean.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; &nbsp;Thanks for cl=
ueing me in...<br>&gt;<br>&gt; &nbsp;Jim Goodin<br>&gt; &nbsp;<a href=3D"ht=
tp://www.jimgoodinmusic.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.jimgoodinmusic.com</a><=
br>
&gt; &nbsp;<a href=3D"http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com/" target=3D"_blank"=
>www.chinapaintingmusic.com</a><br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt; &nbsp;On 4/=
11/08, Dennis Moser &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sinsofmachaut@gmail.com">sinsofma=
chaut@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &nbsp;&gt; Thanks, Todd ...<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt;<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbs=
p;Yes, Second Life CAN actually be a good regular gig and can provide a<br>=
&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;few extra hundred bucks per month for playing while w=
earing your<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;pajamas, not smelling like stale beer =
and smoke when you finish and<br>
&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;not having to worry about lugging your gear up 4 flig=
hts of stairs or<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;having it ripped off from your ca=
r.<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt;<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;But it&#39;s like any other =
gig in that you have to take it seriously and<br>
&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;work hard at giving your best to the audience.<br>&gt=
; &nbsp;&gt;<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;Last year I think I did over 200 conc=
erts; this year, I&#39;ve scaled back<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;considerably=
, but only because I have some real life projects that are<br>
&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;keeping my hands full. I have a regular monthly conce=
rt series that I<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;am doing this year at one particu=
lar venue (Bibi&#39;s Sky Castle, for the<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;cognesce=
nti!) and will probably add a couple of extra performances<br>
&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;through the rest of the year.<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt;<br>&=
gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;There are not many folks who are self-professed Looper=
s performing in<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;SL; don&#39;t know why and maybe i=
t isn&#39;t important.<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;But if you want to share your music and are willling =
to spending some<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;time developing a highly apprecia=
tive audience, then you should<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;consider it. It alw=
ays amazes me to see the spikes in downloads and CD<br>
&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;sales after each performance, with more of them comin=
g from Europe and<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;the UK than the US ... what is i=
t they say about a prophet not being<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;appreciated i=
n their own land?<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;If you do sign on to Second Life, feel free to drop m=
e a notecard (the<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;IMs get capped regularly) ... lo=
ok for AldoManutio Abruzzo ...<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt;<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;=
Best you all,<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;~~D.<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt;<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt;<br>&gt; &n=
bsp;&gt; &nbsp;On 4/11/08, todd reynolds &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:toddreyn@gma=
il.com">toddreyn@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;&gt; I&#=
39;m on there (Kamerin Kokorin) and so is LD community member Dennis Moser,=
<br>
&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;&gt; but frankly, I&#39;ve found it difficult to star=
t a community there without<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;&gt; quite a bit of ti=
me spent, and it is HIGHLY addictive for me... Thanks for<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt=
; &nbsp;&gt; bringing it again to the list, Jeff.<br>
&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;&gt;<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;&gt; but I did get all =
my live stuff working so that I could perform &#39;inworld&#39;,<br>&gt; &n=
bsp;&gt; &nbsp;&gt; and Dennis performs at the Princeton University perform=
ance space often,<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;&gt; which is a beautiful space,=
 and Dennis has established a nice audience for<br>
&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;&gt; himself (everytime I&#39;ve visited to watch)...=
<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;&gt;<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;&gt; time for a new=
 thread for this stuff if we get into it, cuz it&#39;s a DOOZY of<br>&gt; &=
nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;&gt; a convo...<br>&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;&gt;<br>
&gt; &nbsp;&gt; &nbsp;&gt; Todd<br><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br><=
br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>The Acoustic World Guitar of Jim Goodin - <a hr=
ef=3D"http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com">http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com</a><br>M=
ySpace (solo) - <a href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic">http://ww=
w.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic</a><br>
Chinapainting -<br><a href=3D"http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com">http://www=
.chinapaintingmusic.com</a><br>Chinapainting on My Space -<br><a href=3D"ht=
tp://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic.com">http://www.myspace.com/chinapa=
intingmusic.com</a><br>
The Jim Goodin label and home for 7 other creative souls - <a href=3D"http:=
//www.woodandwiremusic.com">http://www.woodandwiremusic.com</a> <br>Jim Goo=
din uses GHS Strings - <a href=3D"http://www.ghsstrings.com">http://www.ghs=
strings.com</a> and Seagull Guitars - <a href=3D"http://www.seagullguitars.=
com">http://www.seagullguitars.com</a>, Jim Goodin is published by Mel Bay =
Publications, Inc. - <a href=3D"http://www.melbay.com">http://www.melbay.co=
m</a>=20

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Yes, Voltage has a lot of electronics, and some with Dempa too, which by =
the way is an excellent CD!  But I'd say most of it is still =
electro-acoustic, rather than pure electronic.  It's just the type of =
music that I've been into lately. There is something very appealing to =
me about using a real physical instrument and actual playing it as a =
basis for electronic manipulation.  I guess it is the "player" in me and =
the years and years I have devoted to playing instruments and attempting =
to be competant at playing them without the aid of electronics.=20

Kris

  ----- Original Message -----=20


  Hi Kris, I too am interested in the pdf. Very timely as I've been =
pondering how much of my time to put into learning standards  vs. =
concentrating on the much more out stuff. not that they are mutually =
exclusive or not cross-fertilizing, of course.

  =20

  I noticed that I don't recognize anything on your recent listening CD =
list that involves live electronic manipulation, though some of the =
folks you list have of course been involved in that, for instance Evan =
Parker and his Electro-Acoustic Ensemble and Lewis himself perhaps. but =
maybe the handful with which I am not familiar do. Voltage? Dempa? Lewis =
with Muhal and Roscoe?  =20

  =20

  Hal Dean

  =20

  From: Todd Lainhart [mailto:tlainhart@gmail.com]=20
  Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 10:09 AM
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
  Subject: George Lewis' "Improvised Music..."

  =20

  Hi Kris -

  Thanks for your kind offer of sending out the PDF on improvisation.  =
I'd also like to get a copy, if you can spare the send.

  If you like, I can also host a link to it on my website (hidden =
somewhere on the server).

  thanks!  -- Todd

  -------------------------------------
   Anyone read the George Lewis' "Improvised Music after 1950"?  =
Unbelievably earth-shaking, pivotal, and paradigm shifting work in light =
of the history of improvisation....recommended reading to me by Jeff =
Kaiser. I have a PDF copy for anyone interested.

  ...but it's pretty damn cool that science is starting to show that us =
improvisers having something unique going on in our brains when we play.

  Kris

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yes, Voltage has a lot of electronics, =
and some=20
with Dempa too, which by the way is an excellent CD!&nbsp; But I'd say =
most of=20
it is still electro-acoustic, rather than pure electronic.&nbsp; It's =
just the=20
type of music that I've been into lately. There is something very =
appealing to=20
me about using a real physical instrument and actual playing it as a =
basis for=20
electronic manipulation.&nbsp; I guess it is the "player" in me and the =
years=20
and years I have devoted to playing instruments and attempting to be =
competant=20
at playing them without the aid of electronics. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'">Hi=20
  Kris, I too am interested in the pdf. Very timely as I=92ve been =
pondering how=20
  much of my time to put into learning standards &nbsp;vs. concentrating =
on the=20
  much more out stuff=85 not that they are mutually exclusive or not=20
  cross-fertilizing, of course=85<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'">I=20
  noticed that I don=92t recognize anything on your recent listening CD =
list that=20
  involves live electronic manipulation, though some of the folks you =
list have=20
  of course been involved in that, for instance Evan Parker and his=20
  Electro-Acoustic Ensemble and Lewis himself perhaps=85 but maybe the =
handful=20
  with which I am not familiar do. Voltage? Dempa? Lewis with Muhal and =
Roscoe?=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><I><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino =
Linotype','serif'">Hal=20
  Dean</SPAN></I><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Palatino =
Linotype','serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
  <DIV=20
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#b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: =
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  <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"> Todd =
Lainhart=20
  [mailto:tlainhart@gmail.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, April 14, 2008 =
10:09=20
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> =
Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> George=20
  Lewis' "Improvised Music..."<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>Hi Kris -<BR><BR>Thanks for your kind offer of =
sending out=20
  the PDF on improvisation.&nbsp; I'd also like to get a copy, if you =
can spare=20
  the send.<BR><BR>If you like, I can also host a link to it on my =
website=20
  (hidden somewhere on the server).<BR><BR>thanks!&nbsp; --=20
  Todd<BR><BR>-------------------------------------<BR>&nbsp;Anyone read =
the=20
  George Lewis' "Improvised Music after 1950"? &nbsp;Unbelievably =
earth-shaking,=20
  pivotal, and paradigm shifting work in light of the history of=20
  improvisation....recommended reading to me by Jeff Kaiser. I have a =
PDF copy=20
  for anyone interested.<BR><BR>...but it's pretty damn cool that =
science is=20
  starting to show that us improvisers having something unique going on =
in our=20
  brains when we =
play.<BR><BR>Kris<o:p></o:p></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 14 17:44:29 2008
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afaik you have the settings correct,
and that's what the beatsync does.
(except that it actual sends a click once per cycle rather than once per loop)

the EDP can output a Midi Note for every beat,

I'll look up the details if that would help.

Other way to do it:-
(there usually is one)

1) set 8th/cycle to 2 (for quarter notes)
2) set your tempo
3) Record your loop rather carefully to get the right time sig.

andy butler


Donearlsto wrote:
> Hello all,
> According to the manual, after setting a tempo via SetTempo, a signal is 
> sent out of the Beat Sync Jack that can act as a "click track."  When I 
> do this, however, all I get is a click at the start of each loop cycle, 
> not for each beat.  Is there a way to send the "click" for each quarter, 
> rather than only at the beginning of each cycle?   Perhaps I have a 
> setting incorrect? Any help is appreciated.
>  
> Donovan Stokes
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get the MapQuest Toolbar 
> <http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003>, Maps, 
> Traffic, Directions & More!

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Well, I guess I had the loop length as just one cycle...so sending it once every cycle makes sense.   
If you find the info on sending a Midi Note for every beat, that would be extremely helpful.  Thanks for the alternate method as well!  
D



In a message dated 04/14/08 13:44:41 Eastern Daylight Time, akbutler@tiscali.co.uk writes:
afaik you have the settings correct, 
and that's what the beatsync does. 
(except that it actual sends a click once per cycle rather than once per loop) 

the EDP can output a Midi Note for every beat, 

I'll look up the details if that would help. 

Other way to do it:- 
(there usually is one) 

1) set 8th/cycle to 2 (for quarter notes) 
2) set your tempo 
3) Record your loop rather carefully to get the right time sig. 

andy butler 


Donearlsto wrote: 
> Hello all, 
> According to the manual, after setting a tempo via SetTempo, a signal is 
> sent out of the Beat Sync Jack that can act as a "click track."  When I 
> do this, however, all I get is a click at the start of each loop cycle, 
> not for each beat.  Is there a way to send the "click" for each quarter, 
> rather than only at the beginning of each cycle?   Perhaps I have a 
> setting incorrect? Any help is appreciated. 
>   
> Donovan Stokes 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> Get the MapQuest Toolbar 
> <http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003>, Maps, 
> Traffic, Directions & More! 

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<BODY bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well, I guess I had the loop length as just=
 one cycle...so sending it once every cycle makes sense.&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT>=
</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If you find the info on sending a Midi Note=
 for every beat, that would be extremely helpful.&nbsp; Thanks for the alter=
nate method as well!&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>D</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 04/14/08 13:44:41 Eastern Daylight Time, akbutler@ti=
scali.co.uk writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid">
<DIV>
<STYLE type=3Dtext/css>
.aolmailheader          {font-size:8pt; color:black; font-family:Arial}
a.aolmailheader:link    {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:=
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ht:normal}
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normal}
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afaik you have the settings correct, <BR>and that's what the beatsync does.=20=
<BR>(except that it actual sends a click once per cycle rather than once per=
 loop) <BR><BR>the EDP can output a Midi Note for every beat, <BR><BR>I'll l=
ook up the details if that would help. <BR><BR>Other way to do it:- <BR>(the=
re usually is one) <BR><BR>1) set 8th/cycle to 2 (for quarter notes) <BR>2)=20=
set your tempo <BR>3) Record your loop rather carefully to get the right tim=
e sig. <BR><BR>andy butler <BR><BR><BR>Donearlsto wrote: <BR>&gt; Hello all,=
 <BR>&gt; According to the manual, after setting a tempo via SetTempo, a sig=
nal is <BR>&gt; sent out of the Beat Sync Jack that can act as a "click trac=
k." &nbsp;When I <BR>&gt; do this, however, all I get is a click at the star=
t of each loop cycle, <BR>&gt; not for each beat. &nbsp;Is there a way to se=
nd the "click" for each quarter, <BR>&gt; rather than only at the beginning=20=
of each cycle? &nbsp; Perhaps I have a <BR>&gt; setting incorrect? Any help=20=
is appreciated. <BR>&gt; &nbsp; <BR>&gt; Donovan Stokes <BR>&gt; -----------=
------------------------------------------------------------- <BR>&gt; Get t=
he MapQuest Toolbar <BR>&gt; &lt;http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=3Dmpqm=
ap00030000000003&gt;, Maps, <BR>&gt; Traffic, Directions &amp; More! <BR><BR=
></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV CLASS=3D"aol_ad_footer" ID=3D"u2021597f42f14dd2b6e90c21af6d792b"><FONT=20=
style=3D"color: black; font: normal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;"><HR style=3D"MAR=
GIN-TOP: 10px">Get the <A title=3D"http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=3Dmp=
qmap00030000000003" href=3D"http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=3Dmpqmap000=
30000000003" target=3D"_blank">MapQuest Toolbar</A>, Maps, Traffic, Directio=
ns & More!</FONT></DIV>
</BODY></HTML>

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From: "Aaron Leese" <aaronleese@flyloops.com>
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Subject: visualization software
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 11:04:15 -0700
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=20

=20

Has anyone else tried running an FFT visualizer while looping?  By this, =
I
mean those plugins that you can run with most music players now =85. =
Usually
called =93visualizers=94 =85.. There are a number of real time =
stand-alone
visualizers that you can run which will compute the frequency spectrum =
of
incoming or outgoing sound data =85. So you can see the real time =
spectrum of
your voice, or guitar, or whatever.

=20

It=92s really fun to play and loop and watch as you control the shape of =
the
visualizer.  I can=92t help but think someone should make a video game =
out of
that =85.. where you need to generate certain high/low/loud/soft sounds =
to
=93win=94 =85.. and the goal changes.  You could even make it really =
advanced =85
something like =93play in the key of G minor=94 =85 music training/game =
=85=85.

=20

I dunno =85. Seems fun to me.

=20

=20


--=20
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.16.4/1146 - Release Date: =
11/22/2007
6:55 PM
=20

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</head>

<body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Has anyone else tried running an FFT visualizer while
looping?&nbsp; By this, I mean those plugins that you can run with most =
music
players now &#8230;. Usually called &#8220;visualizers&#8221; &#8230;.. =
There
are a number of real time stand-alone visualizers that you can run which =
will
compute the frequency spectrum of incoming or outgoing sound data =
&#8230;. So you
can see the real time spectrum of your voice, or guitar, or =
whatever.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>It&#8217;s really fun to play and loop and watch as =
you
control the shape of the visualizer.&nbsp; I can&#8217;t help but think =
someone
should make a video game out of that &#8230;.. where you need to =
generate
certain high/low/loud/soft sounds to &#8220;win&#8221; &#8230;.. and the =
goal
changes.&nbsp; You could even make it really advanced &#8230; something =
like &#8220;play
in the key of G minor&#8221; &#8230; music training/game =
&#8230;&#8230;.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I dunno &#8230;. Seems fun to =
me.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>--<BR>
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.<BR>
Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>
Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.16.4/1146 - Release Date: =
11/22/2007 6:55 PM<BR>
</FONT> </P>

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From: Nico Spahni <nicosp@gmx.net>
Subject: Re: George Lewis  Pdf
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Kris, if you can spare the time, I'd like to get my hands on this  
document, too. BTW, has anyone read Derek Bailey's "Improvisation"? I  
can highly recommend it (make sure you get the 2nd edition). Samba,  
it also covers Indian music.

Cheers from Switzerland

Nico

www.myspace.com/nicospahni


Am 14.04.2008 um 07:07 schrieb samba -:

>
>  George
> Lewis' "Improvised Music after 1950"
>   Yes please send me a copy ,I'm very interested.
>   I too feel these studies aren't defining improvisation carefully  
> enough.
> I expect that will develop. I would like to see Indian Classical  
> musicans studied,
> as well as players with much less formal training.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Going green? See the top 12 foods to eat organic.


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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
Kris, if you can spare the time, I'd like to get my hands on this =
document, too. BTW, has anyone read Derek Bailey's "Improvisation"? I =
can highly recommend it (make sure you get the 2nd edition). Samba, it =
also covers Indian music.<div><br></div><div>Cheers from =
Switzerland</div><div><br></div><div>Nico</div><div><br></div><div>www.mys=
pace.com/nicospahni</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><html>Am =
14.04.2008 um 07:07 schrieb samba -:</html><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; ">=A0<br><pre> George <br>Lewis' =
"Improvised Music after 1950"</pre>=A0 Yes please send me a copy ,I'm =
very interested.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br><pre> =
 I too feel these studies aren't defining improvisation carefully =
enough.<span style=3D"font-family: Tahoma, Helvetica, sans-serif; =
"><br></span>I expect that will develop. I would like to see Indian =
Classical musicans studied, <br>as well as players with much less formal =
training. <br><br><br></pre><span class=3D"body"></span><span =
class=3D"EC_EC_EC_EC_EC_bodybold"></span><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><=
br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><hr>Going green?<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><a =
href=3D"http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.aspx?gid=3D164&amp;oc=
id=3DT003MSN51N1653A" target=3D"_new">See the top 12 foods to eat =
organic.</a></span></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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From: "Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill" <rs@moinlabs.de>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: AW: Cycloops / Soundbite Micro
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> So im now looking at buying a soundbite micro as this has four sample
slots and you can set the reletive times to each 

Have you given the KP3 Kaoss a thought?

	Rainer

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 14 18:50:40 2008
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: RP Collier <skeptikalist@gmail.com>
Subject: Guitar Improvisation EP release
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 11:50:34 -0700
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Just released a new EP through CD BABY (and eventually digital  
distributors) of an extended guitar improvisation:

Deconstruction of Twilight
http://cdbaby.com/cd/rpcollier3

I used the older (no undo) BOSS RC20 looper and a sustainer guitar.

The loop is around a minute long and very downtempo Largo. The  
average space between notes is about 3 seconds. There are both  
ascending and descending components and a few hitches in tempo to  
break up the evenness of the flow.

These characteristics of the loop made it possible for me to make up  
for the lack of feedback function, undo and next loop capability.
I varied the call and response to the loop with push and pull of  
tempo and harmony, and was able to make the loop at times disappear  
by blending with the loop, absorbing it into the phrasing (lento  
arpeggios etc.), and also by obliterating the loop altogether with  
texture and/or volume.

There is only a 2 minute clip on the CD BABY page but it gives the  
complete unadorned loop along with the initial thematic response.

regards

BobC




http://tinyurl.com/yt8f8j

http://www.youtube.com/tynego

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 14 18:51:09 2008
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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 11:51:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: George Ludwig <sfmissionman@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: visualization software
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I have Waves PAZ, which is awesome, but pricey.

--- Aaron Leese <aaronleese@flyloops.com> wrote:

>  
> 
>  
> 
> Has anyone else tried running an FFT visualizer
> while looping?  By this, I
> mean those plugins that you can run with most music
> players now …. Usually
> called “visualizers” ….. There are a number of real
> time stand-alone
> visualizers that you can run which will compute the
> frequency spectrum of
> incoming or outgoing sound data …. So you can see
> the real time spectrum of
> your voice, or guitar, or whatever.
> 
>  
> 
> It’s really fun to play and loop and watch as you
> control the shape of the
> visualizer.  I can’t help but think someone should
> make a video game out of
> that ….. where you need to generate certain
> high/low/loud/soft sounds to
> “win” ….. and the goal changes.  You could even make
> it really advanced …
> something like “play in the key of G minor” … music
> training/game …….
> 
>  
> 
> I dunno …. Seems fun to me.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> -- 
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.16.4/1146 -
> Release Date: 11/22/2007
> 6:55 PM
>  
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:43:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stephen Scott <stevoj@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Cycloops / Soundbite Micro
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phillip wilson <phillwilson@hotmail.com> wrote:    .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma }   
  Hi all
  
 I just got back from my holidays surfing in Lanzarote , i couldnt be unplugged for a week so to my girlfriends dismay I took along my KP Mini and Kaocillator .......i havent had that much fun for months,  the two work so well together building simple loops on the 'ocilator and passing them throught the delays of the KP mini....it got me thinking to how to solve the only problem of the 'ociltor....only 8 beats no undos and everything getting a bit to big to quick.
  
 So im now looking at buying a soundbite micro as this has four sample slots and you can set the reletive times to each other (i would have one as 4beat one as 8 one and16 and one 32 but thats just me) plus a load of other cools stuff...
 the only thing i was wondering was, does it function like a normal looper with one button push starting record then the next stopping it when ever i want to begin looping, or is it more like the kaossicators looper when everything is goverened by bmp and that has to be set first...this is less intuitive for me as a musician but i can see how it would work for a dj.
  
 anyone else got anything to add, likes , dislikes etc... are the bigger cycloops and soundbites battery powerable?
  
 cheers
 Phill


---------------------------------
 Have you played Fishticuffs?  Get fish-slapping on MessengerThis might be the right time for me to post an old review I did of the Soundbite XL, which has many similar features to the micro.  There is, by the way, a newer version of the XL, which has quite a lot more features, although it's still essentially a DJ loop sampler

I'm actually using the Soundbite XL as my main looper. I have to work within it's strict limitations, and be creative otherwise everything ends up sounding the same.

Stephen Scott
www.myspace.com/sylvianfisher


Review of the Red Sound Soundbite XL (formerly known as 'Cycloops')      This is a somewhat unusual product for loopers, especially those of us who do not have a DJing background.   It has 6 stereo loop memories of predefined length, but the length of the loop is measured in BPM rather than seconds.  It attempts to latch on to the incoming sound and measure the BPM automatically, which for guitar based looping, fails miserably just about every time.  However, it is easy to manually set the BPM prior to recording a loop (by either tapping in a tempo or manually selecting with the data wheel).  The preset sample lengths are arranged in 3 groups, with the following possibilities; 
      Group 1 - 16, 8, 4, 4, 2, 1 beats
   Group 2 - 16, 8, 4, 1, 1/2, 1/4 beats
   Group 3 - 32, 4, 4, 1, 1/2, 1/4 beats
      The lowest BPM setting is 60, which would equate to sampling times of 16, 8, 4, 4, 2, 1 seconds for the pads in group 1, or a longest sample of 32 seconds in group 3.  All in glorious stereo.
      Inputs and outputs are on 2 pairs of phono (RCA) sockets at the top of the unit.  There is also a handy headphone output at the bottom of the unit that allows only the input to be monitored - there is no sample output from this socket.  I actually find this really useful, as It allows a clean signal feed on to my other devices.
      Recording and playback is started by simply pressing one of the 6 sample pad buttons.  This is quite awkward for a guitarist, and there is no option for footswitch or auto-trigger record start  (However, I have built my own pedal board for this, by soldering wires directly to the button contacts).  The recording continues to the end of the sample time, there is no way of shortening a loop.
      There are some very neat features.  It has a really nice sounding analogue filter, selectable HP, LP or BP which can filter either the sample pads or incoming 'live' signal.  Unfortunately, the filter will work only on ALL the sample pads together, not individual samples.  The filter resonance or cut off frequency is controllable via the large data wheel.  
   In addition, it has a handy reverse function which reverses any individual (or combination of) sample pads.
      It is absurdly simple to use (don't forget, it's a DJ tool, he- he).  Simply press a sample pad to start the recording, then the sample will automatically playback and loop repeatedly at the end of the sample.  If you make a mistake, press re-sample, then the sample pad again to re-record.  All the pads continue playing in forward or reverse mode, all synced nicely together.  If you need to time shift a sample, just press and hold a sample pad and joggle the data wheel to bring it forwards or backwards in relation to the other loops.  This is a brilliant feature.  It is also possible to time-shift all the samples simultaneously.
      Individual samples can be turned off and on by pressing the sample pad once, when recorded.  There is no way of erasing a single sample (but this is not neccesary, simply turn it off or re-record sample with silence).  There is an Erase All samples button, which activates if held down for half a second.  Its a bit too easy to accidentally erase everything, so approach this button with caution.
      The output level of each individual sample can easily be set on the fly between -20dB and +6dB, although there is a 'click' as the OP goes from +5 to +6dB or vice versa.  It would be nice if the OP could go below -20dB, as this doesn't quite allow for a loop to be faded out completely (nearly though).
      An undocumented feature is that, once a sample is recorded, the playback speed can be altered by changing the BPM setting.  Again, this is a global feature affecting all samples, but allows for various pitch shifting / time stretching effects.
      You will have assumed by now that there is no way of proper looping on this because of the lack of any sort of overdubbing etc.  Well, overdubbing is just about possible, provided that you are using a mixer with sends.  One handy feature is that when re-sampling a loop, the old track you are recording over continues to play back.  So, if you feed back some of that 'old' sample into the mixer and add it into the new sample mix, the old and new sounds will be overdubbed onto the new loop.  This works, but it is totally destructive, so if you mess up the dub, you are stuffed.
      The sound quality is good, and I have no reason to doubt the manuals specs of 24 bit 96kHz sampling.  I would have personally prefered to have a 44kHz sample rate with longer sample time.  The total possible sample time (at 60bpm) is 35 seconds (using group 1 samples), 29.75 seconds (using group 2) or 41.75 secs (group 3), but remember that these are split over 6 samples per group.

        
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<b><i>phillip wilson &lt;phillwilson@hotmail.com&gt;</i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;">   <style> .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } </style>  <br> <blockquote> <div>Hi all</div> <div>&nbsp;</div> <div>I just got back from my holidays surfing in Lanzarote , i couldnt be unplugged for a week so to my girlfriends dismay I took along my KP Mini and Kaocillator .......i havent had that much fun for months,&nbsp; the two work so well together building simple loops on the 'ocilator and passing them throught the delays of the KP mini....it got me thinking to how to solve the only problem of the 'ociltor....only 8 beats no undos and everything getting a bit to big to quick.</div> <div>&nbsp;</div> <div>So im now looking at buying a soundbite micro as this has four sample slots and you can set the reletive times to each other (i
 would have one as 4beat one as 8 one and16 and one 32 but thats just me) plus a load of other cools stuff...</div> <div>the only thing i was wondering was, does it function like a normal looper with one button push starting record then the next stopping it when ever i want to begin looping, or is it more like the kaossicators looper when everything is goverened by bmp and that has to be set first...this is less intuitive for me as a musician but i can see how it would work for a dj.</div> <div>&nbsp;</div> <div>anyone else got anything to add, likes , dislikes etc... are the bigger cycloops and soundbites battery powerable?</div> <div>&nbsp;</div> <div>cheers</div> <div>Phill</div></blockquote><br><hr> Have you played Fishticuffs?  <a href="http://www.fishticuffs.co.uk" target="_new">Get fish-slapping on Messenger</a></blockquote><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">This might be the right time for me to post an old review I did of
 the Soundbite XL, which has many similar features to the micro.&nbsp; There is, by the way, a newer version of the XL, which has quite a lot more features, although it's still essentially a DJ loop sampler<br><br>I'm actually using the Soundbite XL as my main looper. I have to work within it's strict limitations, and be creative otherwise everything ends up sounding the same.<br><br>Stephen Scott<br></span></font>www.myspace.com/sylvianfisher<br><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><br><br>Review of the Red Sound Soundbite XL (formerly known as 'Cycloops')</span></font>      <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">This is a somewhat unusual product for loopers, especially those of us who do not have a DJing background.&nbsp;&nbsp; It has 6 stereo loop memories of predefined length, but the length of the loop is measured in BPM rather than seconds.&nbsp; It attempts to
 latch on to the incoming sound and measure the BPM automatically, which for guitar based looping, fails miserably just about every time.&nbsp; However, it is easy to manually set the BPM prior to recording a loop (by either tapping in a tempo or manually selecting with the data wheel).&nbsp; The preset sample lengths are arranged in 3 groups, with the following possibilities; </span></font></div>      <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Group 1 - 16, 8, 4, 4, 2, 1 beats</span></font></div>   <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Group 2 - 16, 8, 4, 1, 1/2, 1/4 beats</span></font></div>   <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Group 3 - 32, 4, 4, 1, 1/2, 1/4 beats</span></font></div>      <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
 Arial;">The lowest BPM setting is 60, which would equate to sampling times of 16, 8, 4, 4, 2, 1 seconds for the pads in group 1, or a longest sample of 32 seconds in group 3.&nbsp; All in glorious stereo.</span></font></div>      <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Inputs and outputs are on 2 pairs of phono (RCA) sockets at the top of the unit.&nbsp; There is also a handy headphone output at the bottom of the unit that allows only the input to be monitored - there is no sample output from this socket.&nbsp; I actually find this really useful, as It allows a clean signal feed on to my other devices.</span></font></div>      <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Recording and playback is started by simply pressing one of the 6 sample pad buttons.&nbsp; This is quite awkward for a guitarist, and there is no option for footswitch or auto-trigger
 record start&nbsp; (However, I have built my own pedal board for this, by soldering wires directly to the button contacts).&nbsp; The recording continues to the end of the sample time, there is no way of shortening a loop.</span></font></div>      <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">There are some very neat features.&nbsp; It has a really nice sounding analogue filter, selectable HP, LP or BP which can filter either the sample pads or incoming 'live' signal.&nbsp; Unfortunately, the filter will work only on ALL the sample pads together, not individual samples.&nbsp; The filter resonance or cut off frequency is controllable via the large data wheel.&nbsp; </span></font></div>   <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">In addition, it has a handy reverse function which reverses any individual (or combination of) sample pads.</span></font></div>     
 <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">It is absurdly simple to use (don't forget, it's a DJ tool, he- he).&nbsp; Simply press a sample pad to start the recording, then the sample will automatically playback and loop repeatedly at the end of the sample.&nbsp; If you make a mistake, press re-sample, then the sample pad again to re-record.&nbsp; All the pads continue playing in forward or reverse mode, all synced nicely together.&nbsp; If you need to time shift a sample, just press and hold a sample pad and joggle the data wheel to bring it forwards or backwards in relation to the other loops.&nbsp; This is a brilliant feature.&nbsp; It is also possible to time-shift all the samples simultaneously.</span></font></div>      <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Individual samples can be turned off and on by pressing the sample pad once, when
 recorded.&nbsp; There is no way of erasing a single sample (but this is not neccesary, simply turn it off or re-record sample with silence).&nbsp; There is an Erase All samples button, which activates if held down for half a second.&nbsp; Its a bit too easy to accidentally erase everything, so approach this button with caution.</span></font></div>      <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">The output level of each individual sample can easily be set on the fly between -20dB and +6dB, although there is a 'click' as the OP goes from +5 to +6dB or vice versa.&nbsp; It would be nice if the OP could go below -20dB, as this doesn't quite allow for a loop to be faded out completely (nearly though).</span></font></div>      <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">An undocumented feature is that, once a sample is recorded, the playback speed can be altered
 by changing the BPM setting.&nbsp; Again, this is a global feature affecting all samples, but allows for various pitch shifting / time stretching effects.</span></font></div>      <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">You will have assumed by now that there is no way of proper looping on this because of the lack of any sort of overdubbing etc.&nbsp; Well, overdubbing is just about possible, provided that you are using a mixer with sends.&nbsp; One handy feature is that when re-sampling a loop, the old track you are recording over continues to play back.&nbsp; So, if you feed back some of that 'old' sample into the mixer and add it into the new sample mix, the old and new sounds will be overdubbed onto the new loop.&nbsp; This works, but it is totally destructive, so if you mess up the dub, you are stuffed.</span></font></div>      <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
 font-family: Arial;">The sound quality is good, and I have no reason to doubt the manuals specs of 24 bit 96kHz sampling.&nbsp; I would have personally prefered to have a 44kHz sample rate with longer sample time.&nbsp; The total possible sample time (at 60bpm) is 35 seconds (using group 1 samples), 29.75 seconds (using group 2) or 41.75 secs (group 3), but remember that these are split over 6 samples per group.</span></font></div><p>&#32;

      &nbsp;
--0-2087962759-1208202212=:61308--

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I enjoyed Derek's book. In particular, I resonated very well with =
explanation of what has happened to jazz since the 50's.

"It was probably during the 1950's that jazz first gave signs of running =
out of steam...In recent years the news from America has been mainly in =
the form of obituaries and the surviving 'stars' perambulate the world =
of displaying their wares in an endless round of festivals, unchallenged =
by the arrival of new players and seemingly divorced from any sort of =
indigenous activity or musical development. Each successive jazz revival =
leaves the music more firmly established as a bulwark of the nostalgia =
industry".

The long passage from Steve Lacie is my favorite.  "Jazz got to so that =
it wasn't improvised anymore. A lot of music that was going on was =
really not improvised. It got so that everybody knew what was going to =
happen and, sure enough, that's what happened. Maybe the order of the =
phrases and tunes would be a little different every night, but for me =
that wasn't enough. It reached a point where I, and many other people, =
got sick and tired of the 'beat' and the '4 bars' - everybody got tired =
of the systematic playing, and we just said 'Fuck it'."...some people =
are interested in carrying on an old tradition and they can find their =
kicks in shifting round patterns and they are not in any rush to find =
new stuff. They can rummage around the old stuff their whole lives. =
People become obsessed with not just maintaining a tradition but with =
perfecting it...[cut] "And you have to keep it going otherwise you lose =
that freedom. And then the music is finished. It's a matter of life and =
death. The only criterion is - 'Is this stuff alive or dead?'". =20

I also like Bailey's interpretation of the value of transcribing in jazz =
or in learning to improvise. I've never found that as a useful tool, in =
terms of making me a better player or increasing my improvisation =
skills...maybe making it easier for me to copy other players' licks and =
clich=E9s, but nothing from a creative standpoint.

Basically, Derek's book is condensed catalogue of various forms of =
improvisation, based on interviews he conducted on a radio show. And of =
course, he integrates a bit of his own opinions, observations, and =
biases throughout this format.

Kris

  ----- Original Message -----=20


  Kris, if you can spare the time, I'd like to get my hands on this =
document, too. BTW, has anyone read Derek Bailey's "Improvisation"? I =
can highly recommend it (make sure you get the 2nd edition). Samba, it =
also covers Indian music.


  Cheers from Switzerland


  Nico


  www.myspace.com/nicospahni




  Am 14.04.2008 um 07:07 schrieb samba -:



 George Lewis' "Improvised Music after 1950"  Yes please send me a copy =
,I'm very interested.=20

  I too feel these studies aren't defining improvisation carefully =
enough.I expect that will develop. I would like to see Indian Classical =
musicans studied, as well as players with much less formal training.=20
















-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
    Going green? See the top 12 foods to eat organic.


------=_NextPart_000_1BEC_01C89E39.99480EA0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3268" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY=20
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
webkit-line-break: after-white-space"=20
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I enjoyed Derek's book. In particular, =
I resonated=20
very well with explanation of what has happened to jazz since the=20
50's.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"It was probably during the 1950's that =
jazz first=20
gave signs of running out of steam...In recent years the news from =
America has=20
been mainly in the form of obituaries and the surviving 'stars' =
perambulate the=20
world of displaying their wares in an endless round of festivals, =
unchallenged=20
by the arrival of new players and seemingly divorced from any sort of =
indigenous=20
activity or musical development. Each successive jazz revival leaves the =
music=20
more firmly established as a bulwark of the nostalgia =
industry".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The long passage from Steve Lacie is my =

favorite.&nbsp; "Jazz got to so that it wasn't improvised anymore. A lot =
of=20
music that was going on was really not improvised. It got so that =
everybody knew=20
what was going to happen and, sure enough, that's what happened. Maybe =
the order=20
of the phrases and tunes would be a little different every night, but =
for me=20
that wasn't enough. It reached a point where I, and many other people, =
got sick=20
and tired of the 'beat' and the '4 bars' - everybody got tired of the =
systematic=20
playing, and we just said 'Fuck it'."...some people are interested in =
carrying=20
on an old tradition and they can find their kicks in shifting round =
patterns and=20
they are not in any rush to find new stuff. They can rummage around the =
old=20
stuff their whole lives. People become obsessed with not just =
maintaining a=20
tradition but with perfecting it...[cut] "And you have to keep it going=20
otherwise you lose that freedom. And then the music is finished. It's a =
matter=20
of life and death. The only criterion is - 'Is this stuff alive or=20
dead?'".&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I also like Bailey's interpretation of =
the value of=20
transcribing in jazz or in learning to improvise. I've never found that =
as a=20
useful tool, in terms of making me a better player or increasing my=20
improvisation skills...maybe making it easier for me to copy other =
players'=20
licks and clich=E9s, but nothing from a creative =
standpoint.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Basically, Derek's book =
is&nbsp;condensed catalogue=20
of various forms of improvisation, based on interviews he conducted on a =
radio=20
show. And of course, he integrates a bit of his own opinions, =
observations, and=20
biases throughout this format.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV>Kris, if you can =
spare the time,=20
  I'd like to get my hands on this document, too. BTW, has anyone read =
Derek=20
  Bailey's "Improvisation"? I can highly recommend it (make sure you get =
the 2nd=20
  edition). Samba, it also covers Indian music.
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>Cheers from Switzerland</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>Nico</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/nicospahni">www.myspace.com/nicospahni</A>=
</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><BR>
  <DIV>Am 14.04.2008 um 07:07 schrieb samba -:<BR=20
  class=3DApple-interchange-newline>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span=20
    style=3D"WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 13px Tahoma; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; =
LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: =
2; webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: =
none; webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; webkit-text-stroke-width: =
0"><BR><PRE> George <BR>Lewis' "Improvised Music after 1950"</PRE>&nbsp; =
Yes please=20
    send me a copy ,I'm very interested.<SPAN=20
    class=3DApple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN><BR><PRE>  I too feel =
these studies aren't defining improvisation carefully enough.<SPAN =
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, Helvetica, sans-serif"><BR></SPAN>I expect =
that will develop. I would like to see Indian Classical musicans =
studied, <BR>as well as players with much less formal training. =
<BR><BR><BR></PRE><SPAN=20
    class=3Dbody></SPAN><SPAN=20
    =
class=3DEC_EC_EC_EC_EC_bodybold></SPAN><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><B=
R><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
    <HR>
    Going green?<SPAN class=3DApple-converted-space>&nbsp;</SPAN><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.aspx?gid=3D164&amp;o=
cid=3DT003MSN51N1653A"=20
    target=3D_new>See the top 12 foods to eat=20
  =
organic.</A></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTM=
L>

------=_NextPart_000_1BEC_01C89E39.99480EA0--

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Another interesting book regarding improvisation is "No Sound Is Innocent".

TH

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Krispen Hartung <khartung@cableone.net>
wrote:

>  I enjoyed Derek's book. In particular, I resonated very well with
> explanation of what has happened to jazz since the 50's.
>
>
>

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Another interesting book regarding improvisation is &quot;No Sound Is Innocent&quot;.<br><br>TH<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Krispen Hartung &lt;<a href="mailto:khartung@cableone.net">khartung@cableone.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">





<div style="" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">I enjoyed Derek&#39;s book. In particular, I resonated 
very well with explanation of what has happened to jazz since the 
50&#39;s.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font>&nbsp;</div><br></div></blockquote></div><br>

------=_Part_2739_3608127.1208205078655--

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> I also like Bailey's interpretation of the value of transcribing in 
> jazz or in learning to improvise. I've never found that as a useful 
> tool, in terms of making me a better player or increasing my 
> improvisation skills...maybe making it easier for me to copy other 
> players' licks and clichés, but nothing from a creative standpoint.
>  
> Basically, Derek's book is condensed catalogue of various forms of 
> improvisation, based on interviews he conducted on a radio show. And 
> of course, he integrates a bit of his own opinions, observations, and 
> biases throughout this format.
>  
Once again I'll throw out  a recommendation for the tv shows he did for 
the BBC.  There are four 'episodes' where he explores improvisation 
around the world.  The first two are great with the last two being all 
right. 

http://www.ubu.com/film/bailey.html

Kevin

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On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 10:25 PM, Kevin Cheli-Colando
<kevin@minds-eye.org> wrote:

>  Once again I'll throw out  a recommendation for the tv shows he did for the
> BBC.  There are four 'episodes' where he explores improvisation around the
> world.  The first two are great with the last two being all right.
>  http://www.ubu.com/film/bailey.html
>
>  Kevin



Great that you are posting that URL. I've seen these documentaries
long ago and they are really inspiring! I truly support your
recommendation! :-)

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com

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Yeah, I use SNDPEEK, from the guys at Princeton...

http://soundlab.cs.princeton.edu/software/sndpeek/


It's not the prettiest.... but it is more focused on the math =
(displaying
the math, that is), and it's open source, which is important to me =
because I
want to incorporate it into flyloops eventually.

Also important to note .... being able to get the FFT in real time =
should be
the first step in the much wanted pitch shift without tempo shift and =
tempo
shift without pitch shift functions .... (??which have yet to be =
implemented
on any looper??).  If you can get the real time FFT, then it's just a =
quick
linear operation (on a couple thousand data points) then a reverse FFT =
to
calculate a filter operation or time stretch/pitch shift (is that right =
...
it's been a while since I looked at that signals and systems textbook).

And of course .... easier said than done.

Anyway, Qua .... any search of the internet for "FFT transform =
visualizers"
.. or something like that, turns up a number of great programs.


-----Original Message-----
From: George Ludwig [mailto:sfmissionman@yahoo.com]=20
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 11:51 AM
To: aaronleese@flyloops.com; Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: visualization software

I have Waves PAZ, which is awesome, but pricey.

--- Aaron Leese <aaronleese@flyloops.com> wrote:

> =20
>=20
> =20
>=20
> Has anyone else tried running an FFT visualizer
> while looping?  By this, I
> mean those plugins that you can run with most music
> players now =85. Usually
> called =93visualizers=94 =85.. There are a number of real
> time stand-alone
> visualizers that you can run which will compute the
> frequency spectrum of
> incoming or outgoing sound data =85. So you can see
> the real time spectrum of
> your voice, or guitar, or whatever.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> It=92s really fun to play and loop and watch as you
> control the shape of the
> visualizer.  I can=92t help but think someone should
> make a video game out of
> that =85.. where you need to generate certain
> high/low/loud/soft sounds to
> =93win=94 =85.. and the goal changes.  You could even make
> it really advanced =85
> something like =93play in the key of G minor=94 =85 music
> training/game =85=85.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> I dunno =85. Seems fun to me.
>=20
> =20
>=20
> =20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.16.4/1146 -
> Release Date: 11/22/2007
> 6:55 PM
> =20
>=20



=20
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
________
Be a better friend, newshound, and=20
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=3DAhu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

--=20
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.16.4/1146 - Release Date: =
11/22/2007
6:55 PM
=20

--=20
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.16.4/1146 - Release Date: =
11/22/2007
6:55 PM
=20


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Subject: Re: Derek Baily Improvisation TV
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:06:13 -0600
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Excellent. Thank you....watching now, with the pianist discussing 
improvisation in classical music.
K-
----- Original Message ----- 
> Once again I'll throw out  a recommendation for the tv shows he did for 
> the BBC.  There are four 'episodes' where he explores improvisation around 
> the world.  The first two are great with the last two being all right.
> http://www.ubu.com/film/bailey.html
>
> Kevin
> 

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Subject: Re: visualization software
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Hi,

In the nineties I was working with a team that organized a future
targeting exhibition at Stockholm Music Museum dealing with the
internet and lots of software. On many computers we used Cthugha for
dynamic graphic visuals induced by sound. This software is still alive
and kicking - you can check it out at
http://www.afn.org/~cthugha/

--=20
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com



>  --- Aaron Leese <aaronleese@flyloops.com> wrote:
>
>  >
>  > Has anyone else tried running an FFT visualizer
>  > while looping?  By this, I
>  > mean those plugins that you can run with most music
>  > players now =85. Usually
>  > called "visualizers" =85.. There are a number of real
>  > time stand-alone
>  > visualizers that you can run which will compute the
>  > frequency spectrum of
>  > incoming or outgoing sound data =85. So you can see
>  > the real time spectrum of
>  > your voice, or guitar, or whatever.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > It's really fun to play and loop and watch as you
>  > control the shape of the
>  > visualizer.  I can't help but think someone should
>  > make a video game out of
>  > that =85.. where you need to generate certain
>  > high/low/loud/soft sounds to
>  > "win" =85.. and the goal changes.  You could even make
>  > it really advanced =85
>  > something like "play in the key of G minor" =85 music
>  > training/game =85=85.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > I dunno =85. Seems fun to me.
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 14 22:16:44 2008
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Subject: Re: visualization software [ George Ludwig <sfmissionman@yahoo.c ]
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Hi - 

Just a quick note on the Vizuals.
Actionscript 3 (FlashCS3) now offers this inside
the sound class.  So if you're a computer 
person you could build a nice viz program
that could use either computer loaded sounds/music
or a microphone (or mic jack).

If you went this route, you could customize your viz,
or even make a different one for each song! -crazy.

I plan on building one for my own loop rig in the
future (when I can actually afford a LCD projector).


Andy







      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
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<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">Hi - <br><br>Just a quick note on the Vizuals.<br>Actionscript 3 (FlashCS3) now offers this inside<br>the sound class.&nbsp; So if you're a computer <br>person you could build a nice viz program<br>that could use either computer loaded sounds/music<br>or a microphone (or mic jack).<br><br>If you went this route, you could customize your viz,<br>or even make a different one for each song! -crazy.<br><br>I plan on building one for my own loop rig in the<br>future (when I can actually afford a LCD projector).<br><br><br>Andy<br><br><br><div><br></div></div><br>

      &nbsp;</body></html>
--0-1086303098-1208211003=:3711--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 14 22:19:54 2008
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This got me to remembering a gig I did with my brother in a looping space 
rock outfit we had in the 90s. We went on stage at an outdoor festival in N 
Georgia. There was no lights on so I yelled at our buddy Wayne who put the 
show on to hit the lights and he said make some sound. I strummed a chord 
and red, blue and amber lights went across the stage. he said thats all he 
had. so we started playing and it was great, the lights were in time to us 
but it felt like they were driving the music someway. Each frequency had its 
own color.  Good gig.

peace,
Jeff


 ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Per Boysen" <perboysen@gmail.com>
To: "loopers-delight" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: visualization software


Hi,

In the nineties I was working with a team that organized a future
targeting exhibition at Stockholm Music Museum dealing with the
internet and lots of software. On many computers we used Cthugha for
dynamic graphic visuals induced by sound. This software is still alive
and kicking - you can check it out at
http://www.afn.org/~cthugha/

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com



>  --- Aaron Leese <aaronleese@flyloops.com> wrote:
>
>  >
>  > Has anyone else tried running an FFT visualizer
>  > while looping?  By this, I
>  > mean those plugins that you can run with most music
>  > players now …. Usually
>  > called "visualizers" ….. There are a number of real
>  > time stand-alone
>  > visualizers that you can run which will compute the
>  > frequency spectrum of
>  > incoming or outgoing sound data …. So you can see
>  > the real time spectrum of
>  > your voice, or guitar, or whatever.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > It's really fun to play and loop and watch as you
>  > control the shape of the
>  > visualizer.  I can't help but think someone should
>  > make a video game out of
>  > that ….. where you need to generate certain
>  > high/low/loud/soft sounds to
>  > "win" ….. and the goal changes.  You could even make
>  > it really advanced …
>  > something like "play in the key of G minor" … music
>  > training/game …….
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > I dunno …. Seems fun to me.
>



-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1376 - Release Date: 4/13/2008 
1:45 PM


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 14 23:46:15 2008
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>> I also like Bailey's interpretation of the value of transcribing in 
>> jazz or in learning to improvise. I've never found that as a useful 
>> tool, in terms of making me a better player or increasing my 
>> improvisation skills...maybe making it easier for me to copy other 
>> players' licks and clichés, but nothing from a creative standpoint.

I have to disagree with this. I suppose if you go into transcription 
with the goal of hijacking somebody else's style, that's all you'll get 
out of it. But transcription is an excellent form of ear training, and I 
would argue that good ears are, if anything, even more important in 
authentic free playing than in the mainstream. And nothing says you have 
to restrict your transcription to solo instruments. Try to pry apart 
some of Maria Schneider's dense large-ensemble jazz voicings; even 
though I can do it imperfectly, I think it can greatly improve one's 
clarity of expression.

Brian

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The long passage from Steve Lacie is my favorite.  "Jazz got to so that it
wasn't improvised anymore. A lot of music that was going on was really not
improvised. It got so that everybody knew what was going to happen and, sure
enough, that's what happened. Maybe the order of the phrases and tunes would
be a little different every night, but for me that wasn't enough. It reached
a point where I, and many other people, got sick and tired of the 'beat' and
the '4 bars' - everybody got tired of the systematic playing, and we just
said 'Fuck it'."...some people are interested in carrying on an old
tradition and they can find their kicks in shifting round patterns and they
are not in any rush to find new stuff. They can rummage around the old stuff
their whole lives. People become obsessed with not just maintaining a
tradition but with perfecting it...[cut] "And you have to keep it going
otherwise you lose that freedom. And then the music is finished. It's a
matter of life and death. The only criterion is - 'Is this stuff alive or
dead?'".

I really like that quote--it sounds like a good read!

Charlie

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<font face="Arial" size="2">The long passage from Steve Lacie is my 
favorite.&nbsp; &quot;Jazz got to so that it wasn&#39;t improvised anymore. A lot of 
music that was going on was really not improvised. It got so that everybody knew 
what was going to happen and, sure enough, that&#39;s what happened. Maybe the order 
of the phrases and tunes would be a little different every night, but for me 
that wasn&#39;t enough. It reached a point where I, and many other people, got sick 
and tired of the &#39;beat&#39; and the &#39;4 bars&#39; - everybody got tired of the systematic 
playing, and we just said &#39;Fuck it&#39;.&quot;...some people are interested in carrying 
on an old tradition and they can find their kicks in shifting round patterns and 
they are not in any rush to find new stuff. They can rummage around the old 
stuff their whole lives. People become obsessed with not just maintaining a 
tradition but with perfecting it...[cut] &quot;And you have to keep it going 
otherwise you lose that freedom. And then the music is finished. It&#39;s a matter 
of life and death. The only criterion is - &#39;Is this stuff alive or 
dead?&#39;&quot;. <br><br>I really like that quote--it sounds like a good read!<br><br>Charlie<br></font>

------=_Part_33321_27391330.1208216870565--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 00:23:47 2008
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To: <loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: AW: Cycloops / Soundbite Micro
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 00:23:45 +0000
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hi rainer, yes i have a kp 1 2 and mini ands will surley add a 3 in time, h=
owever i want a battery powered loopsampler to go with the kpmini and Kocil=
ator. but do tell me more about the loops on the kp3 cos ive only used the =
kps fx not the sampler
cheers
phill> From: rs@moinlabs.de> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com> Subje=
ct: AW: Cycloops / Soundbite Micro> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:20:44 +0200> =
> > So im now looking at buying a soundbite micro as this has four sample> =
slots and you can set the reletive times to each > > Have you given the KP3=
 Kaoss a thought?> > Rainer>=20
_________________________________________________________________
Amazing prizes every hour with Live Search Big Snap
http://www.bigsnapsearch.com=

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hi rainer, yes i have a kp 1 2 and mini ands will surley add a 3 in time, h=
owever i want a battery powered loopsampler to go with the kpmini and Kocil=
ator. but do tell me more about the loops on the kp3 cos ive only used the =
kps fx not the sampler<BR>
cheers<BR>
phill<BR><BR>&gt; From: rs@moinlabs.de<BR>&gt; To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-=
delight.com<BR>&gt; Subject: AW: Cycloops / Soundbite Micro<BR>&gt; Date: M=
on, 14 Apr 2008 20:20:44 +0200<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; So im now looking at b=
uying a soundbite micro as this has four sample<BR>&gt; slots and you can s=
et the reletive times to each <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Have you given the KP3 Kaos=
s a thought?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Rainer<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><br /><hr />Try Messen=
ger on your mobile.   <a href=3D'http://mobile.uk.msn.com/pc/messenger.aspx=
 ' target=3D'_new'>Text MSN to 63463 Now.</a></body>
</html>=

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 00:41:20 2008
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From: "Krispen Hartung" <khartung@cableone.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
References: <20080414023117.6AB883BE97@arsenic.violacea.com> <BAY129-W250704BE0B8CE6B0B53927C3E80@phx.gbl> <5FF883F7-3CFD-4F8C-8488-A351BDC536FC@gmx.net> <1bef01c89e6b$e46cbd40$6601a8c0@americas.hpqcorp.net> <4803BDB5.509@minds-eye.org> <4803ED4B.5010200@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Derek Baily Improvisation TV
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 18:41:17 -0600
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You disagree with my own experience of transcription? How the heck is that 
possible? That's like me saying I like strawberry icecream better than 
vanilla, and you disagreeing.  :)  My own experience and my learning style 
contradicts everything you say below. That's just one person's learning 
style vs. millions of others.

Kris

----- Original Message ----- 


>>> I also like Bailey's interpretation of the value of transcribing in jazz 
>>> or in learning to improvise. I've never found that as a useful tool, in 
>>> terms of making me a better player or increasing my improvisation 
>>> skills...maybe making it easier for me to copy other players' licks and 
>>> clichés, but nothing from a creative standpoint.
>
> I have to disagree with this. I suppose if you go into transcription with 
> the goal of hijacking somebody else's style, that's all you'll get out of 
> it. But transcription is an excellent form of ear training, and I would 
> argue that good ears are, if anything, even more important in authentic 
> free playing than in the mainstream. And nothing says you have to restrict 
> your transcription to solo instruments. Try to pry apart some of Maria 
> Schneider's dense large-ensemble jazz voicings; even though I can do it 
> imperfectly, I think it can greatly improve one's clarity of expression.
>
> Brian
> 

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thanks so much, i can easliy scale the xl review to get an ideao of the mic=
ro.
i initially hated the idea of setting bmp before performance but seeing as =
the other two kaoss pads track bpm i think this could be really powerful in=
 this context. cheers
=20
phill


Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:43:32 -0700From: stevoj@yahoo.comSubject: Re: Cyc=
loops / Soundbite MicroTo: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.comphillip wilso=
n <phillwilson@hotmail.com> wrote:=20




Hi all
=20
I just got back from my holidays surfing in Lanzarote , i couldnt be unplug=
ged for a week so to my girlfriends dismay I took along my KP Mini and Kaoc=
illator .......i havent had that much fun for months,  the two work so well=
 together building simple loops on the 'ocilator and passing them throught =
the delays of the KP mini....it got me thinking to how to solve the only pr=
oblem of the 'ociltor....only 8 beats no undos and everything getting a bit=
 to big to quick.
=20
So im now looking at buying a soundbite micro as this has four sample slots=
 and you can set the reletive times to each other (i would have one as 4bea=
t one as 8 one and16 and one 32 but thats just me) plus a load of other coo=
ls stuff...
the only thing i was wondering was, does it function like a normal looper w=
ith one button push starting record then the next stopping it when ever i w=
ant to begin looping, or is it more like the kaossicators looper when every=
thing is goverened by bmp and that has to be set first...this is less intui=
tive for me as a musician but i can see how it would work for a dj.
=20
anyone else got anything to add, likes , dislikes etc... are the bigger cyc=
loops and soundbites battery powerable?
=20
cheers
Phill

Have you played Fishticuffs? Get fish-slapping on MessengerThis might be th=
e right time for me to post an old review I did of the Soundbite XL, which =
has many similar features to the micro.  There is, by the way, a newer vers=
ion of the XL, which has quite a lot more features, although it's still ess=
entially a DJ loop samplerI'm actually using the Soundbite XL as my main lo=
oper. I have to work within it's strict limitations, and be creative otherw=
ise everything ends up sounding the same.Stephen Scottwww.myspace.com/sylvi=
anfisherReview of the Red Sound Soundbite XL (formerly known as 'Cycloops')=
=20
This is a somewhat unusual product for loopers, especially those of us who =
do not have a DJing background.   It has 6 stereo loop memories of predefin=
ed length, but the length of the loop is measured in BPM rather than second=
s.  It attempts to latch on to the incoming sound and measure the BPM autom=
atically, which for guitar based looping, fails miserably just about every =
time.  However, it is easy to manually set the BPM prior to recording a loo=
p (by either tapping in a tempo or manually selecting with the data wheel).=
  The preset sample lengths are arranged in 3 groups, with the following po=
ssibilities;=20
Group 1 - 16, 8, 4, 4, 2, 1 beats
Group 2 - 16, 8, 4, 1, 1/2, 1/4 beats
Group 3 - 32, 4, 4, 1, 1/2, 1/4 beats
The lowest BPM setting is 60, which would equate to sampling times of 16, 8=
, 4, 4, 2, 1 seconds for the pads in group 1, or a longest sample of 32 sec=
onds in group 3.  All in glorious stereo.
Inputs and outputs are on 2 pairs of phono (RCA) sockets at the top of the =
unit.  There is also a handy headphone output at the bottom of the unit tha=
t allows only the input to be monitored - there is no sample output from th=
is socket.  I actually find this really useful, as It allows a clean signal=
 feed on to my other devices.
Recording and playback is started by simply pressing one of the 6 sample pa=
d buttons.  This is quite awkward for a guitarist, and there is no option f=
or footswitch or auto-trigger record start  (However, I have built my own p=
edal board for this, by soldering wires directly to the button contacts).  =
The recording continues to the end of the sample time, there is no way of s=
hortening a loop.
There are some very neat features.  It has a really nice sounding analogue =
filter, selectable HP, LP or BP which can filter either the sample pads or =
incoming 'live' signal.  Unfortunately, the filter will work only on ALL th=
e sample pads together, not individual samples.  The filter resonance or cu=
t off frequency is controllable via the large data wheel. =20
In addition, it has a handy reverse function which reverses any individual =
(or combination of) sample pads.
It is absurdly simple to use (don't forget, it's a DJ tool, he- he).  Simpl=
y press a sample pad to start the recording, then the sample will automatic=
ally playback and loop repeatedly at the end of the sample.  If you make a =
mistake, press re-sample, then the sample pad again to re-record.  All the =
pads continue playing in forward or reverse mode, all synced nicely togethe=
r.  If you need to time shift a sample, just press and hold a sample pad an=
d joggle the data wheel to bring it forwards or backwards in relation to th=
e other loops.  This is a brilliant feature.  It is also possible to time-s=
hift all the samples simultaneously.
Individual samples can be turned off and on by pressing the sample pad once=
, when recorded.  There is no way of erasing a single sample (but this is n=
ot neccesary, simply turn it off or re-record sample with silence).  There =
is an Erase All samples button, which activates if held down for half a sec=
ond.  Its a bit too easy to accidentally erase everything, so approach this=
 button with caution.
The output level of each individual sample can easily be set on the fly bet=
ween -20dB and +6dB, although there is a 'click' as the OP goes from +5 to =
+6dB or vice versa.  It would be nice if the OP could go below -20dB, as th=
is doesn't quite allow for a loop to be faded out completely (nearly though=
).
An undocumented feature is that, once a sample is recorded, the playback sp=
eed can be altered by changing the BPM setting.  Again, this is a global fe=
ature affecting all samples, but allows for various pitch shifting / time s=
tretching effects.
You will have assumed by now that there is no way of proper looping on this=
 because of the lack of any sort of overdubbing etc.  Well, overdubbing is =
just about possible, provided that you are using a mixer with sends.  One h=
andy feature is that when re-sampling a loop, the old track you are recordi=
ng over continues to play back.  So, if you feed back some of that 'old' sa=
mple into the mixer and add it into the new sample mix, the old and new sou=
nds will be overdubbed onto the new loop.  This works, but it is totally de=
structive, so if you mess up the dub, you are stuffed.
The sound quality is good, and I have no reason to doubt the manuals specs =
of 24 bit 96kHz sampling.  I would have personally prefered to have a 44kHz=
 sample rate with longer sample time.  The total possible sample time (at 6=
0bpm) is 35 seconds (using group 1 samples), 29.75 seconds (using group 2) =
or 41.75 secs (group 3), but remember that these are split over 6 samples p=
er group.
=20
_________________________________________________________________
Win 100=92s of Virgin Experience days with BigSnapSearch.com
http://www.bigsnapsearch.com=

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thanks so much, i can easliy scale the xl review to get an ideao of the mic=
ro.<BR>
i initially hated the idea of setting bmp before performance but seeing as =
the other two kaoss pads track bpm i think this could be really powerful in=
 this context. cheers<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
phill<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:43:32 -0700<BR>From: stevoj@yahoo.com<BR>Subject:=
 Re: Cycloops / Soundbite Micro<BR>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<=
BR><BR><B><I>phillip wilson &lt;phillwilson@hotmail.com&gt;</I></B> wrote:=
=20
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3DEC_replbq style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"=
>
<STYLE>
.ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P
{padding:0px;}
.ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage
{font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}
</STYLE>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>Hi all</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I just got back from my holidays surfing in Lanzarote , i couldnt be u=
nplugged for a week so to my girlfriends dismay I took along my KP Mini and=
 Kaocillator .......i havent had that much fun for months,&nbsp; the two wo=
rk so well together building simple loops on the 'ocilator and passing them=
 throught the delays of the KP mini....it got me thinking to how to solve t=
he only problem of the 'ociltor....only 8 beats no undos and everything get=
ting a bit to big to quick.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>So im now looking at buying a soundbite micro as this has four sample =
slots and you can set the reletive times to each other (i would have one as=
 4beat one as 8 one and16 and one 32 but thats just me) plus a load of othe=
r cools stuff...</DIV>
<DIV>the only thing i was wondering was, does it function like a normal loo=
per with one button push starting record then the next stopping it when eve=
r i want to begin looping, or is it more like the kaossicators looper when =
everything is goverened by bmp and that has to be set first...this is less =
intuitive for me as a musician but i can see how it would work for a dj.</D=
IV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>anyone else got anything to add, likes , dislikes etc... are the bigge=
r cycloops and soundbites battery powerable?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>cheers</DIV>
<DIV>Phill</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<HR>
Have you played Fishticuffs? <A href=3D"http://www.fishticuffs.co.uk/" targ=
et=3D_blank>Get fish-slapping on Messenger</A></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT face=3DAri=
al size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This might =
be the right time for me to post an old review I did of the Soundbite XL, w=
hich has many similar features to the micro.&nbsp; There is, by the way, a =
newer version of the XL, which has quite a lot more features, although it's=
 still essentially a DJ loop sampler<BR><BR>I'm actually using the Soundbit=
e XL as my main looper. I have to work within it's strict limitations, and =
be creative otherwise everything ends up sounding the same.<BR><BR>Stephen =
Scott<BR></SPAN></FONT>www.myspace.com/sylvianfisher<BR><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><BR><BR>Review=
 of the Red Sound Soundbite XL (formerly known as 'Cycloops')</SPAN></FONT>=
=20
<DIV class=3DEC_MsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-S=
IZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This is a somewhat unusual product for loope=
rs, especially those of us who do not have a DJing background.&nbsp;&nbsp; =
It has 6 stereo loop memories of predefined length, but the length of the l=
oop is measured in BPM rather than seconds.&nbsp; It attempts to latch on t=
o the incoming sound and measure the BPM automatically, which for guitar ba=
sed looping, fails miserably just about every time.&nbsp; However, it is ea=
sy to manually set the BPM prior to recording a loop (by either tapping in =
a tempo or manually selecting with the data wheel).&nbsp; The preset sample=
 lengths are arranged in 3 groups, with the following possibilities; </SPAN=
></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=3DEC_MsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-S=
IZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Group 1 - 16, 8, 4, 4, 2, 1 beats</SPAN></FO=
NT></DIV>
<DIV class=3DEC_MsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-S=
IZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Group 2 - 16, 8, 4, 1, 1/2, 1/4 beats</SPAN>=
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=3DEC_MsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-S=
IZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Group 3 - 32, 4, 4, 1, 1/2, 1/4 beats</SPAN>=
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=3DEC_MsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-S=
IZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The lowest BPM setting is 60, which would eq=
uate to sampling times of 16, 8, 4, 4, 2, 1 seconds for the pads in group 1=
, or a longest sample of 32 seconds in group 3.&nbsp; All in glorious stere=
o.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=3DEC_MsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-S=
IZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Inputs and outputs are on 2 pairs of phono (=
RCA) sockets at the top of the unit.&nbsp; There is also a handy headphone =
output at the bottom of the unit that allows only the input to be monitored=
 - there is no sample output from this socket.&nbsp; I actually find this r=
eally useful, as It allows a clean signal feed on to my other devices.</SPA=
N></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=3DEC_MsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-S=
IZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Recording and playback is started by simply =
pressing one of the 6 sample pad buttons.&nbsp; This is quite awkward for a=
 guitarist, and there is no option for footswitch or auto-trigger record st=
art&nbsp; (However, I have built my own pedal board for this, by soldering =
wires directly to the button contacts).&nbsp; The recording continues to th=
e end of the sample time, there is no way of shortening a loop.</SPAN></FON=
T></DIV>
<DIV class=3DEC_MsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-S=
IZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">There are some very neat features.&nbsp; It =
has a really nice sounding analogue filter, selectable HP, LP or BP which c=
an filter either the sample pads or incoming 'live' signal.&nbsp; Unfortuna=
tely, the filter will work only on ALL the sample pads together, not indivi=
dual samples.&nbsp; The filter resonance or cut off frequency is controllab=
le via the large data wheel.&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=3DEC_MsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-S=
IZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">In addition, it has a handy reverse function=
 which reverses any individual (or combination of) sample pads.</SPAN></FON=
T></DIV>
<DIV class=3DEC_MsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-S=
IZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">It is absurdly simple to use (don't forget, =
it's a DJ tool, he- he).&nbsp; Simply press a sample pad to start the recor=
ding, then the sample will automatically playback and loop repeatedly at th=
e end of the sample.&nbsp; If you make a mistake, press re-sample, then the=
 sample pad again to re-record.&nbsp; All the pads continue playing in forw=
ard or reverse mode, all synced nicely together.&nbsp; If you need to time =
shift a sample, just press and hold a sample pad and joggle the data wheel =
to bring it forwards or backwards in relation to the other loops.&nbsp; Thi=
s is a brilliant feature.&nbsp; It is also possible to time-shift all the s=
amples simultaneously.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=3DEC_MsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-S=
IZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Individual samples can be turned off and on =
by pressing the sample pad once, when recorded.&nbsp; There is no way of er=
asing a single sample (but this is not neccesary, simply turn it off or re-=
record sample with silence).&nbsp; There is an Erase All samples button, wh=
ich activates if held down for half a second.&nbsp; Its a bit too easy to a=
ccidentally erase everything, so approach this button with caution.</SPAN><=
/FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=3DEC_MsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-S=
IZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The output level of each individual sample c=
an easily be set on the fly between -20dB and +6dB, although there is a 'cl=
ick' as the OP goes from +5 to +6dB or vice versa.&nbsp; It would be nice i=
f the OP could go below -20dB, as this doesn't quite allow for a loop to be=
 faded out completely (nearly though).</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=3DEC_MsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-S=
IZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">An undocumented feature is that, once a samp=
le is recorded, the playback speed can be altered by changing the BPM setti=
ng.&nbsp; Again, this is a global feature affecting all samples, but allows=
 for various pitch shifting / time stretching effects.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=3DEC_MsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-S=
IZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">You will have assumed by now that there is n=
o way of proper looping on this because of the lack of any sort of overdubb=
ing etc.&nbsp; Well, overdubbing is just about possible, provided that you =
are using a mixer with sends.&nbsp; One handy feature is that when re-sampl=
ing a loop, the old track you are recording over continues to play back.&nb=
sp; So, if you feed back some of that 'old' sample into the mixer and add i=
t into the new sample mix, the old and new sounds will be overdubbed onto t=
he new loop.&nbsp; This works, but it is totally destructive, so if you mes=
s up the dub, you are stuffed.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=3DEC_MsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-S=
IZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The sound quality is good, and I have no rea=
son to doubt the manuals specs of 24 bit 96kHz sampling.&nbsp; I would have=
 personally prefered to have a 44kHz sample rate with longer sample time.&n=
bsp; The total possible sample time (at 60bpm) is 35 seconds (using group 1=
 samples), 29.75 seconds (using group 2) or 41.75 secs (group 3), but remem=
ber that these are split over 6 samples per group.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
&nbsp;<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><br /><hr />News, Sports, Entertainment and Weather =
on your mobile.  <a href=3D'http://mobile.uk.msn.com/pc/msn_content.aspx' t=
arget=3D'_new'>Text MSN to 63463 Now.</a></body>
</html>=

--_dd05bcfa-be7e-4b59-ab8b-c1c2b1f8b55a_--

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 01:10:24 2008
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From: "Krispen Hartung" <khartung@cableone.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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Subject: Re: George Lewis Pdf
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Yeah, it's a really hip selection. One section that I didn't have time =
to "transcribe" from the book (heh heh) is where one of the members of  =
Joseph Hollbrooke (Bailey's improv ensemble)...I think the bass player? =
describes why he fell out of love with free improvisation. It is very =
interesting. He makes some great points, though not enough to compel me =
to action.=20

Kris

  ----- Original Message -----=20

  The long passage from Steve Lacie is my favorite.  "Jazz got to so =
that it wasn't improvised anymore. A lot of music that was going on was =
really not improvised. It got so that everybody knew what was going to =
happen and, sure enough, that's what happened. Maybe the order of the =
phrases and tunes would be a little different every night, but for me =
that wasn't enough. It reached a point where I, and many other people, =
got sick and tired of the 'beat' and the '4 bars' - everybody got tired =
of the systematic playing, and we just said 'Fuck it'."...some people =
are interested in carrying on an old tradition and they can find their =
kicks in shifting round patterns and they are not in any rush to find =
new stuff. They can rummage around the old stuff their whole lives. =
People become obsessed with not just maintaining a tradition but with =
perfecting it...[cut] "And you have to keep it going otherwise you lose =
that freedom. And then the music is finished. It's a matter of life and =
death. The only criterion is - 'Is this stuff alive or dead?'".=20

  I really like that quote--it sounds like a good read!

  Charlie

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yeah, it's a really hip selection. One =
section that=20
I didn't have time to "transcribe" from the book (heh heh) is where one =
of the=20
members of&nbsp; Joseph Hollbrooke (Bailey's improv ensemble)...I think =
the bass=20
player? describes why he fell out of love with free improvisation. It is =
very=20
interesting. He makes some great points, though not enough to compel me =
to=20
action. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>The=20
  long passage from Steve Lacie is my favorite.&nbsp; "Jazz got to so =
that it=20
  wasn't improvised anymore. A lot of music that was going on was really =
not=20
  improvised. It got so that everybody knew what was going to happen =
and, sure=20
  enough, that's what happened. Maybe the order of the phrases and tunes =
would=20
  be a little different every night, but for me that wasn't enough. It =
reached a=20
  point where I, and many other people, got sick and tired of the 'beat' =
and the=20
  '4 bars' - everybody got tired of the systematic playing, and we just =
said=20
  'Fuck it'."...some people are interested in carrying on an old =
tradition and=20
  they can find their kicks in shifting round patterns and they are not =
in any=20
  rush to find new stuff. They can rummage around the old stuff their =
whole=20
  lives. People become obsessed with not just maintaining a tradition =
but with=20
  perfecting it...[cut] "And you have to keep it going otherwise you =
lose that=20
  freedom. And then the music is finished. It's a matter of life and =
death. The=20
  only criterion is - 'Is this stuff alive or dead?'". <BR><BR>I really =
like=20
  that quote--it sounds like a good=20
read!<BR><BR>Charlie<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_1CFE_01C89E63.2EFF3FD0--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 01:12:00 2008
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Subject: Re: Derek Baily Improvisation TV
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Krispen Hartung wrote:
> You disagree with my own experience of transcription? How the heck is 
> that possible? That's like me saying I like strawberry icecream better 
> than vanilla, and you disagreeing.  :)  My own experience and my 
> learning style contradicts everything you say below. That's just one 
> person's learning style vs. millions of others.
> 
> Kris
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> 
>>>> I also like Bailey's interpretation of the value of transcribing in 
>>>> jazz or in learning to improvise. I've never found that as a useful 
>>>> tool, in terms of making me a better player or increasing my 
>>>> improvisation skills...maybe making it easier for me to copy other 
>>>> players' licks and clichés, but nothing from a creative standpoint.
>>
>> I have to disagree with this. I suppose if you go into transcription 
>> with the goal of hijacking somebody else's style, that's all you'll 
>> get out of it. But transcription is an excellent form of ear training, 
>> and I would argue that good ears are, if anything, even more important 
>> in authentic free playing than in the mainstream. And nothing says you 
>> have to restrict your transcription to solo instruments. Try to pry 
>> apart some of Maria Schneider's dense large-ensemble jazz voicings; 
>> even though I can do it imperfectly, I think it can greatly improve 
>> one's clarity of expression.
>>
>> Brian

Apologies, then. It seemed as if you were making a general statement, 
when clearly that wasn't your intent.

Brian

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 01:18:15 2008
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Krispen Hartung wrote:
> Yeah, it's a really hip selection. One section that I didn't have time 
> to "transcribe" from the book (heh heh) is where one of the members of  
> Joseph Hollbrooke (Bailey's improv ensemble)...I think the bass player? 
> describes why he fell out of love with free improvisation. It is very 
> interesting. He makes some great points, though not enough to compel me 
> to action.

Make sure you transcribe it into all twelve keys. It won't do you much 
good otherwise. :-)

Brian


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I don't think these are two fundamentally different understandings. As 
with homicide, it's all in the intent. Transcription without a doubt 
improves ear training, which is crucial for improvisation. I do it all 
the time myself, informally when listening to music, trying to nail the 
chord progression and picturing the melody on the fretboard, then going 
to the guitar and seeing how correct I was. Every once in a great while 
I'll write out the rhythmic values.

Now, during my time in music school I was constantly harangued to 
transcribe things in order to "learn a lick and then practice it in all 
12 keys". I felt then, and still feel, that this is a terrible approach 
to improvisation. Stringing pre-fab phrases together...ack. What good is 
that going to do anyone, except to make it seem as if you have an 
understanding of music you actually don't, and have ideas you don't? I 
simply refused this approach (didn't help my grades).

My feeling is that, if you can hum a little melody, you can improvise. 
Practice should be oriented toward making it so that playing your 
instrument is easy as humming; the goal is that all thought should go 
into the music you want to hear coming out, not the technical task of 
playing the instrument.

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com

> You disagree with my own experience of transcription? How the heck is 
> that possible? That's like me saying I like strawberry icecream better 
> than vanilla, and you disagreeing.  :)  My own experience and my 
> learning style contradicts everything you say below. That's just one 
> person's learning style vs. millions of others.
>
> Kris
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>>>> I also like Bailey's interpretation of the value of transcribing in 
>>>> jazz or in learning to improvise. I've never found that as a useful 
>>>> tool, in terms of making me a better player or increasing my 
>>>> improvisation skills...maybe making it easier for me to copy other 
>>>> players' licks and clichés, but nothing from a creative standpoint.
>>
>> I have to disagree with this. I suppose if you go into transcription 
>> with the goal of hijacking somebody else's style, that's all you'll 
>> get out of it. But transcription is an excellent form of ear 
>> training, and I would argue that good ears are, if anything, even 
>> more important in authentic free playing than in the mainstream. And 
>> nothing says you have to restrict your transcription to solo 
>> instruments. Try to pry apart some of Maria Schneider's dense 
>> large-ensemble jazz voicings; even though I can do it imperfectly, I 
>> think it can greatly improve one's clarity of expression.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>
>

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Subject: Re: George Lewis Pdf
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 18:41:49 -0700
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On Apr 14, 2008, at 6:10 PM, Krispen Hartung wrote:
>  where one of the members of  Joseph Hollbrooke (Bailey's improv  
> ensemble)...I think the bass player?

Gavin Bryars.



regards

BobC

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Subject: Re: Derek Baily Improvisation TV
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strawberry ice cream sucks.


At 2008.04.14 05:41 PM, Krispen Hartung wrote:
>You disagree with my own experience of=20
>transcription? How the heck is that possible?=20
>That's like me saying I like strawberry icecream=20
>better than vanilla, and you=20
>disagreeing.  :)  My own experience and my=20
>learning style contradicts everything you say=20
>below. That's just one person's learning style vs. millions of others.
>
>Kris
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>>>>I also like Bailey's interpretation of the=20
>>>>value of transcribing in jazz or in learning=20
>>>>to improvise. I've never found that as a=20
>>>>useful tool, in terms of making me a better=20
>>>>player or increasing my improvisation=20
>>>>skills...maybe making it easier for me to=20
>>>>copy other players' licks and clich=E9s, but nothing from a creative=
 standpoint.
>>
>>I have to disagree with this. I suppose if you=20
>>go into transcription with the goal of=20
>>hijacking somebody else's style, that's all=20
>>you'll get out of it. But transcription is an=20
>>excellent form of ear training, and I would=20
>>argue that good ears are, if anything, even=20
>>more important in authentic free playing than=20
>>in the mainstream. And nothing says you have to=20
>>restrict your transcription to solo=20
>>instruments. Try to pry apart some of Maria=20
>>Schneider's dense large-ensemble jazz voicings;=20
>>even though I can do it imperfectly, I think it=20
>>can greatly improve one's clarity of expression.
>>
>>Brian

From service@redfcu.org  Tue Apr 15 04:09:10 2008
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To: undisclosed-recipients:;

Dear Restone Federal Credit Union Member,

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 04:11:30 2008
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From: "Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T)" <emile@foryourhead.com>
Subject: Streaming was Re: George Lewis' "Improvised Music..."
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Anyone interested in George Lewis or in the=20
intersection  of electronic music and jazz should=20
check out Streaming, by George, Roscoe Mitchell=20
and Muhal Richard Abrams.=20
http://www.pirecordings.com/pi22/

At 11:12 AM -0600 4/14/08, Krispen Hartung wrote:
>Yes, Voltage has a lot of electronics, and some=20
>with Dempa too, which by the way is an excellent=20
>CD!  But I'd say most of it is still=20
>electro-acoustic, rather than pure electronic.=20
>It's just the type of music that I've been into=20
>lately. There is something very appealing to me=20
>about using a real physical instrument and=20
>actual playing it as a basis for electronic=20
>manipulation.  I guess it is the "player" in me=20
>and the years and years I have devoted to=20
>playing instruments and attempting to be=20
>competant at playing them without the aid of=20
>electronics.
>
>Kris
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>
>Hi Kris, I too am interested in the pdf. Very=20
>timely as I=92ve been pondering how much of my=20
>time to put into learning standards  vs.=20
>concentrating on the much more out stuff=85 not=20
>that they are mutually exclusive or not=20
>cross-fertilizing, of course=85
>
>I noticed that I don=92t recognize anything on=20
>your recent listening CD list that involves live=20
>electronic manipulation, though some of the=20
>folks you list have of course been involved in=20
>that, for instance Evan Parker and his=20
>Electro-Acoustic Ensemble and Lewis himself=20
>perhaps=85 but maybe the handful with which I am=20
>not familiar do. Voltage? Dempa? Lewis with=20
>Muhal and Roscoe?
>
>Hal Dean
>
>From: Todd Lainhart [mailto:tlainhart@gmail.com]
>Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 10:09 AM
>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>Subject: George Lewis' "Improvised Music..."
>
>Hi Kris -
>
>Thanks for your kind offer of sending out the=20
>PDF on improvisation.  I'd also like to get a=20
>copy, if you can spare the send.
>
>If you like, I can also host a link to it on my=20
>website (hidden somewhere on the server).
>
>thanks!  -- Todd
>
>-------------------------------------
>  Anyone read the George Lewis' "Improvised Music=20
>after 1950"?  Unbelievably earth-shaking,=20
>pivotal, and paradigm shifting work in light of=20
>the history of improvisation....recommended=20
>reading to me by Jeff Kaiser. I have a PDF copy=20
>for anyone interested.
>
>...but it's pretty damn cool that science is=20
>starting to show that us improvisers having=20
>something unique going on in our brains when we=20
>play.
>
>Kris


-- 

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the=20
ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at=20
the same time, and still retain the ability to=20
function."

=46. Scott Fitzgerald


		Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D.
Video Producer and Digital Photographer	Image Processing Specialist
Video for your HEAD!			Boris FX
http://www.foryourhead.com		http://www.borisfx.com

My photography can be viewed at=20
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22231918@N06/collections/72157603627170351/

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 04:37:36 2008
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Subject: Re: Derek Baily Improvisation TV
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Cool. Yes, I agree, I'd have to be a raving lunatic to say that =
transcription is not a useful learning approach for everyone.  Different =
strokes for different folks, as they say.  And even some people change =
over time. Last year I like stouts and porters. This year I am obessed =
with Belgium beer, to the effect that I am brewing my own now...a clone =
recipe of the Westveleteren 12, my favorite, followed by Rochefort 10. =
Hmmm....yummmm.   Those Belgium monks sure know how to make a good beer. =
:)

Kris

----- Original Message ----- =20
> Apologies, then. It seemed as if you were making a general statement,=20
> when clearly that wasn't your intent.
>=20
> Brian
>
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cool. Yes, I agree, I'd have to be a =
raving lunatic=20
to say that transcription is not a useful learning approach for =
everyone.&nbsp;=20
Different strokes for different folks, as they say.&nbsp; And even some =
people=20
change over time. Last year I like stouts and porters. This year I am =
obessed=20
with Belgium beer, to the effect that I am brewing my own now...a clone =
recipe=20
of the </FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Westveleteren</FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2> 12, my favorite, followed by Rochefort 10. Hmmm....yummmm.=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;Those Belgium monks sure know how to make a good beer.=20
:)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>----- Original Message -----&nbsp; =
<BR>&gt;=20
Apologies, then. It seemed as if you were making a general statement, =
<BR>&gt;=20
when clearly that wasn't your intent.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;=20
Brian<BR>&gt;</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_1D30_01C89E80.1E4EEAB0--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 04:54:07 2008
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Subject: Re: Derek Baily Improvisation TV
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----- Original Message ----- 

> with homicide, it's all in the intent. Transcription without a doubt 
> improves ear training, which is crucial for improvisation.

I think this is what is debatable, you think?  I mean, you wouldn't force 
feed this learning approach on all learners I hope....? That seems a bit 
unfair, given all the different types of learning styles and learners out 
there.  This is why modern learning technology incorporates learning methods 
that address most all major learning styles - textual, verbal, visual, 
kinesthetic, etc. It is a real injustice that many music students have 
probably given up their instruments because some old school teacher has 
attempted to force a particular learning approach on them, that didn't 
complement their individual learning styles. It's a tradegy in my opinion, 
and very sad.

For me, transcription did nothing but take time and elongate/burden the 
learning process. I could learn phrases and licks 50 times faster by ear. 
So, again in my own personal experience, transcription served no value 
except to take more time. I already know how to notate music and read it 
(even sight read basic material), so transcribing stuff that someone else 
already wrote was really a clunky and inefficient way of learning their 
technique, etc.   For me, it just didn't add up how transcribing something 
that someone else already created, could help me be a better improviser.  It 
went against the grain of my personal learning style, which is the main 
point here. Really interesting topic.

Kris


I do it all
> the time myself, informally when listening to music, trying to nail the 
> chord progression and picturing the melody on the fretboard, then going to 
> the guitar and seeing how correct I was. Every once in a great while I'll 
> write out the rhythmic values.
>
> Now, during my time in music school I was constantly harangued to 
> transcribe things in order to "learn a lick and then practice it in all 12 
> keys". I felt then, and still feel, that this is a terrible approach to 
> improvisation. Stringing pre-fab phrases together...ack. What good is that 
> going to do anyone, except to make it seem as if you have an understanding 
> of music you actually don't, and have ideas you don't? I simply refused 
> this approach (didn't help my grades).
>
> My feeling is that, if you can hum a little melody, you can improvise. 
> Practice should be oriented toward making it so that playing your 
> instrument is easy as humming; the goal is that all thought should go into 
> the music you want to hear coming out, not the technical task of playing 
> the instrument.
>
> Daryl Shawn
> www.swanwelder.com
> www.chinapaintingmusic.com
>
>> You disagree with my own experience of transcription? How the heck is 
>> that possible? That's like me saying I like strawberry icecream better 
>> than vanilla, and you disagreeing.  :)  My own experience and my learning 
>> style contradicts everything you say below. That's just one person's 
>> learning style vs. millions of others.
>>
>> Kris
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>>>>> I also like Bailey's interpretation of the value of transcribing in 
>>>>> jazz or in learning to improvise. I've never found that as a useful 
>>>>> tool, in terms of making me a better player or increasing my 
>>>>> improvisation skills...maybe making it easier for me to copy other 
>>>>> players' licks and clichés, but nothing from a creative standpoint.
>>>
>>> I have to disagree with this. I suppose if you go into transcription 
>>> with the goal of hijacking somebody else's style, that's all you'll get 
>>> out of it. But transcription is an excellent form of ear training, and I 
>>> would argue that good ears are, if anything, even more important in 
>>> authentic free playing than in the mainstream. And nothing says you have 
>>> to restrict your transcription to solo instruments. Try to pry apart 
>>> some of Maria Schneider's dense large-ensemble jazz voicings; even 
>>> though I can do it imperfectly, I think it can greatly improve one's 
>>> clarity of expression.
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>
>>
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 05:01:44 2008
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From: "Krispen Hartung" <khartung@cableone.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
References: <8feb287a0804140709x31b91c21mc76c60bbe93be273@mail.gmail.com> <641CEFFC7E5B6C42AB59539653FD08230757FD7D@wcu-ex-emp2.PASSHE.LCL> <1b4d01c89e52$b1863a50$6601a8c0@americas.hpqcorp.net> <p06240806c429d72406e1@[192.168.2.2]>
Subject: Re: Streaming was Re: George Lewis' "Improvised Music..."
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 23:01:40 -0600
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You can also get it at eMusic, a bit cheaper.

http://www.emusic.com/album/Muhal-Richard-Abrams-George-Lewis-Roscoe-Mitch-Streaming-MP3-Download/11011969.html

I just discovered eMusic lately. I bought a membership for $15 a month, for 
50 downloads (30 cents a song) - which makes this CD  $1.50.

Kris

----- Original Message ----- 


Anyone interested in George Lewis or in the
intersection  of electronic music and jazz should
check out Streaming, by George, Roscoe Mitchell
and Muhal Richard Abrams.
http://www.pirecordings.com/pi22/

At 11:12 AM -0600 4/14/08, Krispen Hartung wrote:
>Yes, Voltage has a lot of electronics, and some with Dempa too, which by 
>the way is an excellent CD!  But I'd say most of it is still 
>electro-acoustic, rather than pure electronic. It's just the type of music 
>that I've been into lately. There is something very appealing to me about 
>using a real physical instrument and actual playing it as a basis for 
>electronic manipulation.  I guess it is the "player" in me and the years 
>and years I have devoted to playing instruments and attempting to be 
>competant at playing them without the aid of electronics.
>
>Kris
photos/22231918@N06/collections/72157603627170351/

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 05:11:31 2008
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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 00:11:26 -0500
From: Daryl Shawn <highhorse@mhorse.com>
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Subject: Re: Derek Baily Improvisation TV
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Interesting debate, for sure, especially as transcription is a widely 
used tool. I'll repeat my belief that transcription does improve ear 
training. However, I'm not talking about necessarily notating it - I 
should have made that distinction; my definition of transcription means 
listening to music and transferring it to one's own instrument. Notation 
on paper is a laborious step that doesn't directly address the ear 
training that I think is the main benefit. The hour it'd take to notate 
a tune may be better spent learning to recognize quickly what's going on 
in five or six other tunes.

I'll notate difficult rhythms sometimes to know precisely what is going 
on. Easier for me to hear a minor sixth chord than a group of seven at 
high tempo.

I agree that all kinds of ways of ear training are possible, and I do 
not think transcription has to necessarily be part of that. I literally 
refused to do it at school (being focused on building an encyclopedia of 
licks), it's only since then that I've done it, somewhat informally, and 
believe I'm seeing some benefit.

I hate "licks". Even the word. Don't get me started on avoid notes.. :-D

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com


> ----- Original Message -----
>> with homicide, it's all in the intent. Transcription without a doubt 
>> improves ear training, which is crucial for improvisation.
>
> I think this is what is debatable, you think?  I mean, you wouldn't 
> force feed this learning approach on all learners I hope....? That 
> seems a bit unfair, given all the different types of learning styles 
> and learners out there.  This is why modern learning technology 
> incorporates learning methods that address most all major learning 
> styles - textual, verbal, visual, kinesthetic, etc. It is a real 
> injustice that many music students have probably given up their 
> instruments because some old school teacher has attempted to force a 
> particular learning approach on them, that didn't complement their 
> individual learning styles. It's a tradegy in my opinion, and very sad.
>
> For me, transcription did nothing but take time and elongate/burden 
> the learning process. I could learn phrases and licks 50 times faster 
> by ear. So, again in my own personal experience, transcription served 
> no value except to take more time. I already know how to notate music 
> and read it (even sight read basic material), so transcribing stuff 
> that someone else already wrote was really a clunky and inefficient 
> way of learning their technique, etc.   For me, it just didn't add up 
> how transcribing something that someone else already created, could 
> help me be a better improviser.  It went against the grain of my 
> personal learning style, which is the main point here. Really 
> interesting topic.
>
> Kris
>
>
> I do it all
>> the time myself, informally when listening to music, trying to nail 
>> the chord progression and picturing the melody on the fretboard, then 
>> going to the guitar and seeing how correct I was. Every once in a 
>> great while I'll write out the rhythmic values.
>>
>> Now, during my time in music school I was constantly harangued to 
>> transcribe things in order to "learn a lick and then practice it in 
>> all 12 keys". I felt then, and still feel, that this is a terrible 
>> approach to improvisation. Stringing pre-fab phrases together...ack. 
>> What good is that going to do anyone, except to make it seem as if 
>> you have an understanding of music you actually don't, and have ideas 
>> you don't? I simply refused this approach (didn't help my grades).
>>
>> My feeling is that, if you can hum a little melody, you can 
>> improvise. Practice should be oriented toward making it so that 
>> playing your instrument is easy as humming; the goal is that all 
>> thought should go into the music you want to hear coming out, not the 
>> technical task of playing the instrument.
>>
>> Daryl Shawn
>> www.swanwelder.com
>> www.chinapaintingmusic.com
>>
>>> You disagree with my own experience of transcription? How the heck 
>>> is that possible? That's like me saying I like strawberry icecream 
>>> better than vanilla, and you disagreeing.  :)  My own experience and 
>>> my learning style contradicts everything you say below. That's just 
>>> one person's learning style vs. millions of others.
>>>
>>> Kris
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>>>>> I also like Bailey's interpretation of the value of transcribing 
>>>>>> in jazz or in learning to improvise. I've never found that as a 
>>>>>> useful tool, in terms of making me a better player or increasing 
>>>>>> my improvisation skills...maybe making it easier for me to copy 
>>>>>> other players' licks and clichés, but nothing from a creative 
>>>>>> standpoint.
>>>>
>>>> I have to disagree with this. I suppose if you go into 
>>>> transcription with the goal of hijacking somebody else's style, 
>>>> that's all you'll get out of it. But transcription is an excellent 
>>>> form of ear training, and I would argue that good ears are, if 
>>>> anything, even more important in authentic free playing than in the 
>>>> mainstream. And nothing says you have to restrict your 
>>>> transcription to solo instruments. Try to pry apart some of Maria 
>>>> Schneider's dense large-ensemble jazz voicings; even though I can 
>>>> do it imperfectly, I think it can greatly improve one's clarity of 
>>>> expression.
>>>>
>>>> Brian
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 05:41:33 2008
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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 22:41:32 -0700
From: "paul bailey" <bpbailey@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Derek Baily Improvisation TV
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the reason transcription is brought up so often is that it similar to the
way we learn how to read and write. the way children acquire language works
through a process of sound before symbol.

child imitates parents (babble, nonsense words)
child mimics specific words and attaches meaning in order to communicate
(bottle, up, down...)
child learns to associate the sounds of words with the pictures
child learns to associate the the sounds of words to the symbols
after much trial and error a child is able to form sentences (aurally, but
not orally)
eventually they learn how to notate what they have been saying

we acquire our musical language this way also. writing music down isn't
necessary to compose a piece, but it does make it easier over time to
categorize many of the aural musical ideas we have in our ears in to paper.
there is nothing wrong with skipping the final process of notating your
transcriptions, and sometimes knowing which sections to transcribe can save
much time, and i think it is the final step to developing a sophisticated
understanding of any musical aesthetic.

cheers,

paul

On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 10:11 PM, Daryl Shawn <highhorse@mhorse.com> wrote:

> Interesting debate, for sure, especially as transcription is a widely use=
d
> tool. I'll repeat my belief that transcription does improve ear training.
> However, I'm not talking about necessarily notating it - I should have ma=
de
> that distinction; my definition of transcription means listening to music
> and transferring it to one's own instrument. Notation on paper is a
> laborious step that doesn't directly address the ear training that I thin=
k
> is the main benefit. The hour it'd take to notate a tune may be better sp=
ent
> learning to recognize quickly what's going on in five or six other tunes.
>
> I'll notate difficult rhythms sometimes to know precisely what is going
> on. Easier for me to hear a minor sixth chord than a group of seven at hi=
gh
> tempo.
>
> I agree that all kinds of ways of ear training are possible, and I do not
> think transcription has to necessarily be part of that. I literally refus=
ed
> to do it at school (being focused on building an encyclopedia of licks),
> it's only since then that I've done it, somewhat informally, and believe =
I'm
> seeing some benefit.
>
> I hate "licks". Even the word. Don't get me started on avoid notes.. :-D
>
>
> Daryl Shawn
> www.swanwelder.com
> www.chinapaintingmusic.com
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > > with homicide, it's all in the intent. Transcription without a doubt
> > > improves ear training, which is crucial for improvisation.
> > >
> >
> > I think this is what is debatable, you think?  I mean, you wouldn't
> > force feed this learning approach on all learners I hope....? That seem=
s a
> > bit unfair, given all the different types of learning styles and learne=
rs
> > out there.  This is why modern learning technology incorporates learnin=
g
> > methods that address most all major learning styles - textual, verbal,
> > visual, kinesthetic, etc. It is a real injustice that many music studen=
ts
> > have probably given up their instruments because some old school teache=
r has
> > attempted to force a particular learning approach on them, that didn't
> > complement their individual learning styles. It's a tradegy in my opini=
on,
> > and very sad.
> >
> > For me, transcription did nothing but take time and elongate/burden the
> > learning process. I could learn phrases and licks 50 times faster by ea=
r.
> > So, again in my own personal experience, transcription served no value
> > except to take more time. I already know how to notate music and read i=
t
> > (even sight read basic material), so transcribing stuff that someone el=
se
> > already wrote was really a clunky and inefficient way of learning their
> > technique, etc.   For me, it just didn't add up how transcribing someth=
ing
> > that someone else already created, could help me be a better improviser=
.  It
> > went against the grain of my personal learning style, which is the main
> > point here. Really interesting topic.
> >
> > Kris
> >
> >
> > I do it all
> >
> > > the time myself, informally when listening to music, trying to nail
> > > the chord progression and picturing the melody on the fretboard, then=
 going
> > > to the guitar and seeing how correct I was. Every once in a great whi=
le I'll
> > > write out the rhythmic values.
> > >
> > > Now, during my time in music school I was constantly harangued to
> > > transcribe things in order to "learn a lick and then practice it in a=
ll 12
> > > keys". I felt then, and still feel, that this is a terrible approach =
to
> > > improvisation. Stringing pre-fab phrases together...ack. What good is=
 that
> > > going to do anyone, except to make it seem as if you have an understa=
nding
> > > of music you actually don't, and have ideas you don't? I simply refus=
ed this
> > > approach (didn't help my grades).
> > >
> > > My feeling is that, if you can hum a little melody, you can improvise=
.
> > > Practice should be oriented toward making it so that playing your ins=
trument
> > > is easy as humming; the goal is that all thought should go into the m=
usic
> > > you want to hear coming out, not the technical task of playing the
> > > instrument.
> > >
> > > Daryl Shawn
> > > www.swanwelder.com
> > > www.chinapaintingmusic.com
> > >
> > >  You disagree with my own experience of transcription? How the heck i=
s
> > > > that possible? That's like me saying I like strawberry icecream bet=
ter than
> > > > vanilla, and you disagreeing.  :)  My own experience and my learnin=
g style
> > > > contradicts everything you say below. That's just one person's lear=
ning
> > > > style vs. millions of others.
> > > >
> > > > Kris
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >
> > > >  I also like Bailey's interpretation of the value of transcribing i=
n
> > > > > > > jazz or in learning to improvise. I've never found that as a =
useful tool, in
> > > > > > > terms of making me a better player or increasing my improvisa=
tion
> > > > > > > skills...maybe making it easier for me to copy other players'=
 licks and
> > > > > > > clich=E9s, but nothing from a creative standpoint.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > I have to disagree with this. I suppose if you go into
> > > > > transcription with the goal of hijacking somebody else's style, t=
hat's all
> > > > > you'll get out of it. But transcription is an excellent form of e=
ar
> > > > > training, and I would argue that good ears are, if anything, even=
 more
> > > > > important in authentic free playing than in the mainstream. And n=
othing says
> > > > > you have to restrict your transcription to solo instruments. Try =
to pry
> > > > > apart some of Maria Schneider's dense large-ensemble jazz voicing=
s; even
> > > > > though I can do it imperfectly, I think it can greatly improve on=
e's clarity
> > > > > of expression.
> > > > >
> > > > > Brian
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>


--=20
http://twitter.com/becausetheydead

------=_Part_20748_4060860.1208238092375
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Content-Disposition: inline

the reason transcription is brought up so often is that it similar to the w=
ay we learn how to read and write. the way children acquire language works =
through a process of sound before symbol.<br><br>child imitates parents (ba=
bble, nonsense words)<br>

child mimics specific words and attaches meaning in order to communicate (b=
ottle, up, down...)<br>child learns to associate the sounds of words with t=
he pictures<br>child learns to associate the the sounds of words to the sym=
bols <br>
after much trial and error a child is able to form sentences (aurally, but =
not orally)<br>eventually they learn how to notate what they have been sayi=
ng<br><br>we acquire our musical language this way also. writing music down=
 isn&#39;t necessary to compose a piece, but it does make it easier over ti=
me to categorize many of the aural musical ideas we have in our ears in to =
paper. there is nothing wrong with skipping the final process of notating y=
our transcriptions, and sometimes knowing which sections to transcribe can =
save much time, and i think it is the final step to developing a sophistica=
ted understanding of any musical aesthetic. <br>
<br>cheers,<br><br>paul<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 14, 2=
008 at 10:11 PM, Daryl Shawn &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:highhorse@mhorse.com">hi=
ghhorse@mhorse.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; =
padding-left: 1ex;">
Interesting debate, for sure, especially as transcription is a widely used =
tool. I&#39;ll repeat my belief that transcription does improve ear trainin=
g. However, I&#39;m not talking about necessarily notating it - I should ha=
ve made that distinction; my definition of transcription means listening to=
 music and transferring it to one&#39;s own instrument. Notation on paper i=
s a laborious step that doesn&#39;t directly address the ear training that =
I think is the main benefit. The hour it&#39;d take to notate a tune may be=
 better spent learning to recognize quickly what&#39;s going on in five or =
six other tunes.<br>

<br>
I&#39;ll notate difficult rhythms sometimes to know precisely what is going=
 on. Easier for me to hear a minor sixth chord than a group of seven at hig=
h tempo.<br>
<br>
I agree that all kinds of ways of ear training are possible, and I do not t=
hink transcription has to necessarily be part of that. I literally refused =
to do it at school (being focused on building an encyclopedia of licks), it=
&#39;s only since then that I&#39;ve done it, somewhat informally, and beli=
eve I&#39;m seeing some benefit.<br>

<br>
I hate &quot;licks&quot;. Even the word. Don&#39;t get me started on avoid =
notes.. :-D<div><div></div><div class=3D"Wj3C7c"><br>
<br>
Daryl Shawn<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.swanwelder.com" target=3D"_blank">www.swanwelder.com<=
/a><br>
<a href=3D"http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com" target=3D"_blank">www.chinapa=
intingmusic.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
----- Original Message -----<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
with homicide, it&#39;s all in the intent. Transcription without a doubt im=
proves ear training, which is crucial for improvisation.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I think this is what is debatable, you think? &nbsp;I mean, you wouldn&#39;=
t force feed this learning approach on all learners I hope....? That seems =
a bit unfair, given all the different types of learning styles and learners=
 out there. &nbsp;This is why modern learning technology incorporates learn=
ing methods that address most all major learning styles - textual, verbal, =
visual, kinesthetic, etc. It is a real injustice that many music students h=
ave probably given up their instruments because some old school teacher has=
 attempted to force a particular learning approach on them, that didn&#39;t=
 complement their individual learning styles. It&#39;s a tradegy in my opin=
ion, and very sad.<br>

<br>
For me, transcription did nothing but take time and elongate/burden the lea=
rning process. I could learn phrases and licks 50 times faster by ear. So, =
again in my own personal experience, transcription served no value except t=
o take more time. I already know how to notate music and read it (even sigh=
t read basic material), so transcribing stuff that someone else already wro=
te was really a clunky and inefficient way of learning their technique, etc=
. &nbsp; For me, it just didn&#39;t add up how transcribing something that =
someone else already created, could help me be a better improviser. &nbsp;I=
t went against the grain of my personal learning style, which is the main p=
oint here. Really interesting topic.<br>

<br>
Kris<br>
<br>
<br>
I do it all<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
the time myself, informally when listening to music, trying to nail the cho=
rd progression and picturing the melody on the fretboard, then going to the=
 guitar and seeing how correct I was. Every once in a great while I&#39;ll =
write out the rhythmic values.<br>

<br>
Now, during my time in music school I was constantly harangued to transcrib=
e things in order to &quot;learn a lick and then practice it in all 12 keys=
&quot;. I felt then, and still feel, that this is a terrible approach to im=
provisation. Stringing pre-fab phrases together...ack. What good is that go=
ing to do anyone, except to make it seem as if you have an understanding of=
 music you actually don&#39;t, and have ideas you don&#39;t? I simply refus=
ed this approach (didn&#39;t help my grades).<br>

<br>
My feeling is that, if you can hum a little melody, you can improvise. Prac=
tice should be oriented toward making it so that playing your instrument is=
 easy as humming; the goal is that all thought should go into the music you=
 want to hear coming out, not the technical task of playing the instrument.=
<br>

<br>
Daryl Shawn<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.swanwelder.com" target=3D"_blank">www.swanwelder.com<=
/a><br>
<a href=3D"http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com" target=3D"_blank">www.chinapa=
intingmusic.com</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
You disagree with my own experience of transcription? How the heck is that =
possible? That&#39;s like me saying I like strawberry icecream better than =
vanilla, and you disagreeing. &nbsp;:) &nbsp;My own experience and my learn=
ing style contradicts everything you say below. That&#39;s just one person&=
#39;s learning style vs. millions of others.<br>

<br>
Kris<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"b=
order-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); pa=
dding-left: 1ex;">

I also like Bailey&#39;s interpretation of the value of transcribing in jaz=
z or in learning to improvise. I&#39;ve never found that as a useful tool, =
in terms of making me a better player or increasing my improvisation skills=
...maybe making it easier for me to copy other players&#39; licks and clich=
=E9s, but nothing from a creative standpoint.<br>

</blockquote></blockquote>
<br>
I have to disagree with this. I suppose if you go into transcription with t=
he goal of hijacking somebody else&#39;s style, that&#39;s all you&#39;ll g=
et out of it. But transcription is an excellent form of ear training, and I=
 would argue that good ears are, if anything, even more important in authen=
tic free playing than in the mainstream. And nothing says you have to restr=
ict your transcription to solo instruments. Try to pry apart some of Maria =
Schneider&#39;s dense large-ensemble jazz voicings; even though I can do it=
 imperfectly, I think it can greatly improve one&#39;s clarity of expressio=
n.<br>

<br>
Brian<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><a href=3D"=
http://twitter.com/becausetheydead">http://twitter.com/becausetheydead</a>

------=_Part_20748_4060860.1208238092375--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 06:33:41 2008
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From: "Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill" <rs@moinlabs.de>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: AW: Reverse Delays - how do they work?
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:33:40 +0200
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> Interesting topic. I currently use a TC D2 in my live setup 
> but it's not easy to understand how to program and control 
> the reverse delay. The D2 sounds completely different than 
> the DD20 which I also have. But according to the manual, it 

This is what I was trying to hint at, yes. With, say, a normal delay effect,
you may have more features in one unit, and one might add some artifacts,
but apart from that (and with the same feature set in use), they all sound
more or less the same. With the reverse delays, it's different. The D2 has
also been somewhat statistical to me in that regard. I remember that live
performance in Desenzano, Italy (Hi Luca!) when at the end of the
performance the D2 took a short snippet of singing and reassembled it,
reversing and repeating some short segments, in a way that sounded
very...otherwordly. Definitely hadn't intended that!

And as Andy mentioned, the SMM w/ Hazari's version has that great feature
that in one of the reverse modes, you manually control reverse playback -
but then, you can't do loops because you'd need that footswitch for it :(

	Rainer

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 07:22:54 2008
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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:22:50 +0100
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On 13/04/2008, andy butler <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>  The type of reverse with continuous record and play in opposite directions
> can be got out of the Behringer Virtualizer, using the "Sampler" patch.
>  It's glitchy when the 2 "heads" cross, but gives an idea of the effect.

You can get the same effect, with no glitching, from my plug-in
Crossfade Loop Synth Effect:

http://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/xfadelooper.html

which incidentally I've nearly finished porting to Windows.

It can play back the reversed sound at different pitches too which is quite fun.


cheers,
os.

-- 
os@collective.co.uk
http://www.darkroomtheband.net/
http://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 11:18:11 2008
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Ok, Im coming into this late because of my holiday so I wont rehash what ot=
hers have been saying, I will however tell you about something that I find =
genuinly distasteful and thatI am seeing more and more of around North-East=
 England...
=20
Artists beenasked to PAY FOR gigs...
=20
these are usually sold as "Talent Shows" or "Battle of the Band" nights...u=
sually with the format of  a local/regional/interregional/northen/national =
stage play offs...(funny how many rounds you need couldnt be anything to do=
 with the amount of times your bands entourage have to come and pay to see =
you could it....) these horrible nights are normally pithced to the younger=
 bands over Myspace and such like and ask each band to pitch in anything fr=
om =A310 -=A350 to enter the competition ..queue bullshiz about need for ad=
min and promotion etc  and lots of big hype about the grand prize of a reco=
rding studio trip and all that bull...
Anyway, the final outcome of such shows seems to be the "judges" do nack-al=
l the crowd gets a bit of paper to put a cross on next to the band they wan=
t to win (usually the one they came with or are married/related to)and LO a=
n behold...the band with the most amount ofpunters "wins" and gets to .....=
.tada.... have to talk there mates into coughing up the cash to come to the=
 NEXT round.
=20
seriously I hate these gigs, I did one once   (and I didnt pay the enteranc=
e fee as the guy was obviously that short of contestants to compete)...the =
winner won with an audiance of FOUR people, I came second with THREE and th=
e other act left as soon as they had played because they didnt actually bri=
ng anyone.
=20
what a dismal missuse of music.
=20
Phill Wilson
_________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the next generation of Windows Live
http://www.windowslive.co.uk/get-live=

--_36369028-e279-4b32-9629-65e4883b914c_
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<html>
<head>
<style>
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma
}
</style>
</head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'>
<BR>Ok, Im coming into this late because of my holiday so I wont rehash wha=
t others have been saying, I will however tell you about something that I f=
ind genuinly distasteful and thatI am seeing more and more of around North-=
East England...<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
Artists beenasked to PAY FOR gigs...<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
these are usually sold as "Talent Shows" or "Battle of the Band" nights...u=
sually with the format of&nbsp; a local/regional/interregional/northen/nati=
onal stage play offs...(funny how many rounds you need couldnt be anything =
to do with the amount of times your bands entourage have to come and pay to=
 see you could it....) these horrible nights are normally pithced to the yo=
unger bands over Myspace and such like and ask each band to pitch in anythi=
ng from =A310 -=A350 to enter the competition ..queue bullshiz about need f=
or admin and promotion etc&nbsp; and lots of big hype about the grand prize=
 of a recording studio trip and all that bull...<BR>
Anyway, the final outcome of such shows seems to be the "judges" do nack-al=
l the crowd gets a bit of paper to put a cross on next to the band they wan=
t to win (usually the one they came with or are married/related to)and LO a=
n behold...the band with the most amount ofpunters "wins" and gets to .....=
.tada.... have to talk there mates into coughing up the cash to come to the=
 NEXT round.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
seriously I hate these gigs, I did one once&nbsp;&nbsp; (and I didnt pay th=
e enterance fee as the guy was obviously that short of contestants to compe=
te)...the winner won with an audiance of FOUR people, I came second with TH=
REE and the other act left as soon as they had played because they didnt ac=
tually bring anyone.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
what a dismal missuse of music.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
Phill Wilson<BR><br /><hr />
Have you played Fishticuffs?
 <a href=3D'http://www.fishticuffs.co.uk' target=3D'_new'>Get fish-slapping=
 on Messenger</a></body>
</html>=

--_36369028-e279-4b32-9629-65e4883b914c_--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 11:23:28 2008
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> Rainer wrote:
> The D2 has
> also been somewhat statistical to me in that regard. I remember that li=
ve
> performance in Desenzano, Italy (Hi Luca!) when at the end of the
> performance the D2 took a short snippet of singing and reassembled it,
> reversing and repeating some short segments, in a way that sounded
> very...otherwordly. Definitely hadn't intended that!

I recognize the short snippets reverse effect of the D2. I have the impre=
ssion that the D2 reverses the individual delay taps and that=92s probabl=
y why they sound like chunks and very short. The reverse effect also depe=
nds on the attack of the input sound, so a slow attack results in little =
or no reverse=85if I remember it well. But again, I still have to sort ou=
t this D2 secret.

Sjaak=0A

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 11:36:47 2008
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While I was living in London 84-94 this was the case for the better  
venues and even some pretty crappy pubs. You were given some tickets  
to sell to make up for it, but no guest list.

On Apr 15, 2008, at 1:18 PM, phillip wilson wrote:

> Artists beenasked to PAY FOR gigs...


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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">While I was living in London =
84-94 this was the case for the better venues and even some pretty =
crappy pubs. You were given some tickets to sell to make up for it, but =
no guest list.&nbsp;<div><br><div><html>On Apr 15, 2008, at 1:18 PM, =
phillip wilson wrote:</html><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
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-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; ">Artists beenasked to PAY FOR =
gigs...</span></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-19-171454679--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 11:55:37 2008
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Subject: Re: Derek Baily Improvisation TV
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 05:55:31 -0600
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---- Original Message ----- 


> Interesting debate, for sure, especially as transcription is a widely used 
> tool. I'll repeat my belief that transcription does improve ear training. 
> However, I'm not talking about necessarily notating it - I should have 
> made that distinction; my definition of transcription means listening to 
> music and transferring it to one's own instrument.

Ah hah!  :) That makes a world of difference! Thanks for the clarification. 
I thought you meant listening to the music and notating it on paper, which 
in most cases (in unless you have perfect pitch), does involve playing it on 
your instrument. But the main point is actually trascribing it, emphasis in 
the "scribe" part of the word.

Kris

From pauladamss1960@mesvilaweb.cat  Tue Apr 15 12:46:15 2008
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Subject: I WANT TO ENGAGE YOUR SERVICES.
From: pauladamss1960@mesvilaweb.cat
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INVESTMENT PROPOSAL
>From Mr. Paul Adams.
Department of Power and Steel,
City of London, London.

My Dear Friend,

I am Mr Paul Adams, a Consultant by profession with the Department of
Power and Steel company in London.I represent a group of Board of
Directors that is interested in engaging your service for investment on a
large volume of fund,(Fifteen Million Dollars) Which was Deposited in
Finance Company for investment purpose after the original contractors has
been paid.

If you are capable to handle any type of investment in your
country,Please,get back to me immediately and send your full name and
address,telephone and fax numbers to enable me communicate with you and
provide further details to you on how the fund will be transfer to you
and also your commission for your participation in this transaction.
I will also let you know on how we hope to achieve this goal.

I will appreciate a prompt response from you.

Yours faithfully,
Mr.Paul Adams.


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 12:50:14 2008
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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 05:50:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: ditch wrestler <ditchwrestler@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: (Derek Baily) Improvisation (TV)
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I've been improvising for about 6 years now and I'll concur with the 'transfered transposing' approach as a worthwhile.
   
  I listen to a record (being a bassist, I'm partial to that instrument) of William Parker, Peter Kowald, Wilbert De Joode or non-bassists like Eddie Prevost, Steve Lacy, Derek Bailey, etc. and when I hear something interesting, I wonder 'how did they make that sound and how can I make it on my bass.'
   
  I don't usually end up even close to that sound but I usually discover something interesting along the way.
   
   
  Ted Harms.

Krispen Hartung <khartung@cableone.net> wrote:
  ---- Original Message ----- 


> Interesting debate, for sure, especially as transcription is a widely used 
> tool. I'll repeat my belief that transcription does improve ear training. 
> However, I'm not talking about necessarily notating it - I should have 
> made that distinction; my definition of transcription means listening to 
> music and transferring it to one's own instrument.

Ah hah! :) That makes a world of difference! Thanks for the clarification. 
I thought you meant listening to the music and notating it on paper, which 
in most cases (in unless you have perfect pitch), does involve playing it on 
your instrument. But the main point is actually trascribing it, emphasis in 
the "scribe" part of the word.

Kris




"Indeed, naturally I think that a film should have a beginning, middle, and an end — but not necessarily in that order."   Jean Luc Goddard
        
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<div>I've been improvising for about 6 years now and I'll concur with the 'transfered transposing' approach as a worthwhile.</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>I listen to a record (being a bassist, I'm partial to that instrument) of William Parker, Peter Kowald, Wilbert De Joode or non-bassists like Eddie Prevost, Steve Lacy, Derek Bailey, etc. and when I hear something interesting, I wonder 'how did they make that sound and how can I make it on my bass.'</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>I don't&nbsp;usually end up even close to that sound but I usually&nbsp;discover something interesting along the way.</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>Ted Harms.<BR><BR><B><I>Krispen Hartung &lt;khartung@cableone.net&gt;</I></B> wrote:</div>  <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">---- Original Message ----- <BR><BR><BR>&gt; Interesting debate, for sure, especially as transcription is a widely used <BR>&gt; tool. I'll
 repeat my belief that transcription does improve ear training. <BR>&gt; However, I'm not talking about necessarily notating it - I should have <BR>&gt; made that distinction; my definition of transcription means listening to <BR>&gt; music and transferring it to one's own instrument.<BR><BR>Ah hah! :) That makes a world of difference! Thanks for the clarification. <BR>I thought you meant listening to the music and notating it on paper, which <BR>in most cases (in unless you have perfect pitch), does involve playing it on <BR>your instrument. But the main point is actually trascribing it, emphasis in <BR>the "scribe" part of the word.<BR><BR>Kris<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>"Indeed, naturally I think that a film should have a beginning, middle, and an end — but not necessarily in that order."   Jean Luc Goddard<p>&#32;

      &nbsp;
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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 06:04:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: ditch wrestler <ditchwrestler@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: This is your brain on jazz -- MRI studies of improvisation
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  As far as books go, I found Borgo's "Sync or Swarm" pretty dry; I pretty skipped the entire middle where he does some stochastic/oscilloscopic analysis on some tune.  Might be interesting to some but overly dry to me.
   
  I'll echo the comment somebody make about "No Sound is Innocent" by the great Eddie Prevost.   His next book "Minute Particulars" is a keeper, too, but overshadowed by his attack on Keith Rowe.  As crusty as Eddie comes off in the books, he's a very articulate and calm guy.  He does have a pretty strict 'system', though, for improvisation and that came across in workshop of his that I co-ordinate/attended - it's all about sound, not music.
   
  I've only read the first of Zorn's Aracana book and loved it.  I liked the anecdotal approach to "As Serious As Your Life".  "The Velvet Lounge: on late Chicago Jazz" by Majer is pretty good.
   
  It's really difficult to talk about improvisation so I really admire those people that can get their ideas down in a semi-articulate fashion.  At the weekly open rehearsals I've led for the last two years, I find I'm reduced to analogies and metaphors.  It's not like Mozart where you can point to the triple-forte F# and have everybody know what it is and (hopefully) how to play it.
   
   
  Ted Harms.
  

Krispen Hartung <khartung@cableone.net> wrote:
  Wow, I'm glad everyone is so interested. I've sent a whole lot of you this 
PDF article now. Daryl, I'll send to you shortly.

Here is a better list of the books with complete author names. I also added 
some of the CDs I have been listening to lately, to educate myself on the 
breadth of free improv music. Many of these artists are recommended in the 
appendix of the Lewis article.

Literature
a.. Improvsation - Derek Bailey
b.. Arcana II: Musicians on Musis - John Zorn
c.. Arcana Musicians on Music - John Zorn
d.. Northern Sun, Southern Moon: Europe's Reinvention of Jazz - Heffley
e.. Jazz Among the Discourses - Krin Gabbard
f.. Free Jazz - Jost
g.. As Serious as Your Life: John Coltrane and Beyond - Valerie Wilmer
h.. Sync or Swarm: Musical Improvisation in a Complex Age - David Borgo
i.. Forces in Motion; The Music and Thoughts of Anthony Braxton - Lock

My Discography (a few are missing, which I did not list)
a.. Anthony Braxton - Six Compositions
b.. Derek Bailey, Greg Goodman, Hendry Kaiser, Toshinori Kondo, Evan 
Parker, ROVA - The Science Set
c.. Eugene Chadbourne - The German Horse
d.. Fred Anderson - Back at the Velvet Lounge
e.. Jim Staley - Mumbo Jumbo
f.. Peter Brotzmann - Born Broke
g.. Roscoe Mitchell - Quartet
h.. Muhal Richard Abrams, George Lewis, Roscoe Mitchell - Streaming
i.. Bob Ostertag - Verbatim, Flesh and Blood
j.. Voltage - Self Titled
k.. Dempa - Nine Fragments
l.. Evan Parker, Guy, Lyttton, Marylyn Crispell - Natives & Aliens
m.. Cecil Taylor - Unit Structures
n.. Joe Morris / Rob Brown Quartet - Illuminate
o.. Derek Bailey - Carpal Tunnel
p.. Derek Bailey - Aida
q.. Derek Bailey & Cecil Taylor - Pleistozaen Mit Wasser
r.. Derek Bailey & Greg Bendian - The Sign of 4
s.. Derek Bailey, Pat Metheny, Greg Bendian, Paul Wertico - Science of 
Eduacation
t.. Ornette Coleman / Pat Metheny - Song X
Kris


----- Original Message ----- 



> Krispen, I'd also very much be interested in the Lewis document...and 
> thanks for the various mentions of the books. I've been digging deep into 
> anything Zorn these last few months so will have to look up the Arcana 
> tomes. I'm not much of a reader these days (feel too guilty not spending 
> the time making the music...) but I know it can offer inspiration.
>
> The last really good music books I've read were John Cage's "Silence" and 
> the biography "Roaring Silence".
>
>> I'd love to read George's piece, Krispen... do send me a pdf if the 
>> offer still stands.. please.
> Daryl Shawn
> www.swanwelder.com
> www.chinapaintingmusic.com
> 




"Indeed, naturally I think that a film should have a beginning, middle, and an end — but not necessarily in that order."   Jean Luc Goddard
        
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<div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>As far as books go, I found Borgo's "Sync or Swarm" pretty dry; I pretty skipped the entire middle where&nbsp;he does some stochastic/oscilloscopic&nbsp;analysis on some tune.&nbsp; Might be interesting to some but overly dry to me.</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>I'll echo the comment somebody make about "No Sound is Innocent" by the great Eddie Prevost.&nbsp;&nbsp; His next book "Minute Particulars" is a keeper, too, but overshadowed by his attack on Keith Rowe.&nbsp; As crusty as Eddie comes off in the books, he's a very articulate and calm guy.&nbsp; He does have a pretty strict 'system', though, for improvisation and that came across in&nbsp;workshop of his that I co-ordinate/attended - it's all about sound, not music.</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>I've only read the first of Zorn's Aracana book and loved it.&nbsp; I liked the anecdotal approach to "As Serious As Your Life".&nbsp; "The Velvet Lounge: on late Chicago Jazz" by Majer is pretty
 good.</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>It's really difficult to talk about improvisation so I really admire those people that can get their ideas down in a semi-articulate fashion.&nbsp; At the weekly open rehearsals&nbsp;I've led for the last two years, I find I'm reduced to analogies and metaphors.&nbsp; It's not like Mozart where you can point to the triple-forte F# and have everybody know what it is and (hopefully) how to play it.</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>Ted Harms.</div>  <div><BR><BR><B><I>Krispen Hartung &lt;khartung@cableone.net&gt;</I></B> wrote:</div>  <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Wow, I'm glad everyone is so interested. I've sent a whole lot of you this <BR>PDF article now. Daryl, I'll send to you shortly.<BR><BR>Here is a better list of the books with complete author names. I also added <BR>some of the CDs I have been listening to lately, to educate myself on the
 <BR>breadth of free improv music. Many of these artists are recommended in the <BR>appendix of the Lewis article.<BR><BR>Literature<BR>a.. Improvsation - Derek Bailey<BR>b.. Arcana II: Musicians on Musis - John Zorn<BR>c.. Arcana Musicians on Music - John Zorn<BR>d.. Northern Sun, Southern Moon: Europe's Reinvention of Jazz - Heffley<BR>e.. Jazz Among the Discourses - Krin Gabbard<BR>f.. Free Jazz - Jost<BR>g.. As Serious as Your Life: John Coltrane and Beyond - Valerie Wilmer<BR>h.. Sync or Swarm: Musical Improvisation in a Complex Age - David Borgo<BR>i.. Forces in Motion; The Music and Thoughts of Anthony Braxton - Lock<BR><BR>My Discography (a few are missing, which I did not list)<BR>a.. Anthony Braxton - Six Compositions<BR>b.. Derek Bailey, Greg Goodman, Hendry Kaiser, Toshinori Kondo, Evan <BR>Parker, ROVA - The Science Set<BR>c.. Eugene Chadbourne - The German Horse<BR>d.. Fred Anderson - Back at the Velvet Lounge<BR>e.. Jim Staley - Mumbo Jumbo<BR>f.. Peter
 Brotzmann - Born Broke<BR>g.. Roscoe Mitchell - Quartet<BR>h.. Muhal Richard Abrams, George Lewis, Roscoe Mitchell - Streaming<BR>i.. Bob Ostertag - Verbatim, Flesh and Blood<BR>j.. Voltage - Self Titled<BR>k.. Dempa - Nine Fragments<BR>l.. Evan Parker, Guy, Lyttton, Marylyn Crispell - Natives &amp; Aliens<BR>m.. Cecil Taylor - Unit Structures<BR>n.. Joe Morris / Rob Brown Quartet - Illuminate<BR>o.. Derek Bailey - Carpal Tunnel<BR>p.. Derek Bailey - Aida<BR>q.. Derek Bailey &amp; Cecil Taylor - Pleistozaen Mit Wasser<BR>r.. Derek Bailey &amp; Greg Bendian - The Sign of 4<BR>s.. Derek Bailey, Pat Metheny, Greg Bendian, Paul Wertico - Science of <BR>Eduacation<BR>t.. Ornette Coleman / Pat Metheny - Song X<BR>Kris<BR><BR><BR>----- Original Message ----- <BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; Krispen, I'd also very much be interested in the Lewis document...and <BR>&gt; thanks for the various mentions of the books. I've been digging deep into <BR>&gt; anything Zorn these last few months so
 will have to look up the Arcana <BR>&gt; tomes. I'm not much of a reader these days (feel too guilty not spending <BR>&gt; the time making the music...) but I know it can offer inspiration.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The last really good music books I've read were John Cage's "Silence" and <BR>&gt; the biography "Roaring Silence".<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; I'd love to read George's piece, Krispen... do send me a pdf if the <BR>&gt;&gt; offer still stands.. please.<BR>&gt; Daryl Shawn<BR>&gt; www.swanwelder.com<BR>&gt; www.chinapaintingmusic.com<BR>&gt; <BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>"Indeed, naturally I think that a film should have a beginning, middle, and an end — but not necessarily in that order."   Jean Luc Goddard<p>&#32;

      &nbsp;
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Ok , so i said I wouldnt be talking on this topic...
but I have spent all day enthralled in the to's and fro's and just had to c=
hime in.
=20
let me start by saying that My view, while differant to many here is not in=
tended to annoy anyone or down play others opinions, it is more a theory of=
 mine that will never be realised in this world we live in, but is just  a =
thought.
=20
Basically I started to think of both sides of the argument and taking them =
to their logical conclusions and started thinking...
=20
Why should musicians be paid,why has our (western) society decided this is =
correct? would the benifits to the world in a society where no musicans are=
 paid outweigh the benifits to the fewer musicians who do get payed....?
=20
ok lets extrapolate this... lets think of other things that no one gets pai=
d for, no one gets paid to teach their own child to speak or walk but we do=
 it instincivly because its in everyones interest that we can communicate, =
similarly gossip and down the pub conversations...we are giving knowlage ab=
out the world around us and we are doing it withoutever thinking of a fee t=
hat that infomation could earn us, because it feels natural to do so there =
are many other examples of activities where the person doing the activity d=
oes so with no thoughts of renumerations, indeedmany areas where pay is the=
 "GOAL" now did not have any such incentive for the pioneers of said activi=
ty, think about surfing/skateboarding none of the first guys dreamed of spo=
nsors and events they where just doing it cos it was fun, the rest came lat=
er.
=20
I then held this thought in my mind and started thinking about the negative=
 aspects of paid music....someone earlier said if we don't support musician=
s through pay, all we will be left with are the corporates favourates like =
Britney et al....Au contraire... if NO ONE throught that music was somethin=
g society paid for these creativity-sucking-money-whores would be the first=
 off the boat, what would remain would be, in my opinion, the people with t=
hings to say, the guys and girls who get this stuff out of themselves in so=
ng because they HAVE to , they will burst if they don't share there feeling=
s. I can't imagine Nick Drake, Thom York or Bob Marley ever stopping to thi=
nk about marketing angles and airplay-ability when they where penning the h=
eartfelt songs that I love them for, they did it instinctivly , cos they HA=
D to.
=20
Now I know the arguments against this includes that you gotta pay for whate=
ver materials you need to get your message out to people, your instruments =
/ studio etc..    but lets be honest theres never been a time with more fre=
e-roads to an audience with the internet/ home cd burners / podcasts etc an=
d think how many more people could access EVERY work if there was no fear o=
f prosicution for downloading and swapping freely. Also if you look at many=
 other things that people do cooking / angling / football etc, almost all o=
f these activitys require equipment that in turn require financial investme=
nt with little to no hope of material return, so people do it....BECAUSE TH=
EY LOVE IT.=20
=20
Ok, so in summary, im not saying this will ever happen and i have tried har=
d to not work this as to demean anyone who does work as a full time musicia=
n, i just simply think if ou took away ALL financial incentives to play you=
 would be left with the people who play with a passion because it means as =
much to them as any other form of interaction that we define humanity by.
=20
Ok, I've got my tin hat on so I will press send and brace myself
=20
Phill MyOneManBand st playing for free runs that it > devalues the market f=
or everyone else who may NEED to be paid. Maybe so, > but the commercial mu=
sic industry and lack of government arts funding > deserve much more blame =
for their lack of support, and further, anyone > who needs to be paid for t=
heir music has to know that they're going out > on a highly arbitrary limb =
in relation to their survival. Even more so > if they're playing unusual st=
uff.> > I know for a fact that these coffeeshops that somehow survive charg=
ing > $1.75 for their brown water don't have the cash to front for my unkno=
wn > ass to sit in a corner and do what I love. I'd rather be playing than =
> anything else, so I provide them some atmosphere and get a world of > enj=
oyment in return, $20 or no $20.> > As a side note, every experimental/arts=
 venue I've played at or talked > to so far has, actually, made a point of =
charging a cover and then > giving the bulk (if not all) the door to the mu=
sicians.> > Daryl Shawn> www.swanwelder.com> www.chinapaintingmusic.com> > =
Never play for free.>=20
_________________________________________________________________
Win 100=92s of Virgin Experience days with BigSnapSearch.com
http://www.bigsnapsearch.com=

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Ok , so i said I wouldnt be talking on this topic...<BR>
but I have spent all day enthralled in the to's and fro's and just had to c=
hime in.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
let me start by saying that My view, while differant to many here is not in=
tended to annoy anyone or down play others opinions, it is more a theory of=
 mine that will never be realised in this world we live in, but is just&nbs=
p; a thought.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
Basically I started to think of both sides of the argument and taking them =
to their logical conclusions and started thinking...<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
Why should musicians be paid,why has our (western) society decided this is =
correct?&nbsp;would the benifits to the world in a society where no musican=
s are paid outweigh the benifits to the fewer musicians who do get payed...=
.?<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
ok lets extrapolate this... lets think of other things that no one gets pai=
d for, no one gets paid to teach their own child to speak or walk but we do=
 it instincivly because its in everyones interest that we can communicate, =
similarly gossip and down the pub conversations...we are giving knowlage ab=
out the world around us and we are doing it withoutever thinking of a fee t=
hat that infomation could earn us, because it feels natural to do so there =
are many other examples of activities where the person doing the activity d=
oes so with no thoughts of renumerations, indeedmany areas where pay is the=
 "GOAL" now did not have any such incentive for the pioneers of said activi=
ty, think about surfing/skateboarding none of the first guys dreamed of spo=
nsors and events they where just doing it cos it was fun, the rest came lat=
er.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
I then held this thought in my mind and started thinking about the negative=
 aspects of paid music....someone earlier said if we don't support musician=
s through pay, all we will be left with are the corporates favourates like =
Britney et al....Au contraire... if NO ONE throught that music was somethin=
g&nbsp;society paid for these creativity-sucking-money-whores would be the =
first off the boat, what would remain would be, in my opinion, the people w=
ith things to say, the guys and girls who get this stuff out of themselves =
in song because they HAVE to , they will burst if they don't share there fe=
elings. I can't imagine Nick Drake, Thom York or Bob Marley ever stopping t=
o think about marketing angles and airplay-ability when they where penning =
the heartfelt songs that I love them for, they did it instinctivly , cos th=
ey HAD to.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
Now I know the arguments against this includes that you gotta pay for whate=
ver materials you need to get your message out to people, your instruments =
/ studio etc..&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; but lets be honest theres never been a tim=
e with more free-roads to an audience with the internet/ home cd burners / =
podcasts etc and think how many more people could access EVERY work if ther=
e was no fear of prosicution for downloading and swapping freely. Also if y=
ou look at many other things that people do&nbsp;cooking / angling / footba=
ll etc, almost all of these activitys require equipment that in turn requir=
e financial investment with little to no hope of material return, so people=
 do it....BECAUSE THEY LOVE IT. <BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
Ok, so in summary, im not saying this will ever happen and i have tried har=
d to not work this as to demean anyone who does work as a full time musicia=
n, i just simply think if ou took away ALL financial incentives to play you=
 would be left with the people who play with a passion because it means as =
much to them as any other form of interaction that we define humanity by.<B=
R>
&nbsp;<BR>
Ok, I've got my tin hat on so I will press send and brace myself<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
Phill MyOneManBand&nbsp;<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR=
><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>st playing for free runs that it <BR>&gt; deva=
lues the market for everyone else who may NEED to be paid. Maybe so, <BR>&g=
t; but the commercial music industry and lack of government arts funding <B=
R>&gt; deserve much more blame for their lack of support, and further, anyo=
ne <BR>&gt; who needs to be paid for their music has to know that they're g=
oing out <BR>&gt; on a highly arbitrary limb in relation to their survival.=
 Even more so <BR>&gt; if they're playing unusual stuff.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I=
 know for a fact that these coffeeshops that somehow survive charging <BR>&=
gt; $1.75 for their brown water don't have the cash to front for my unknown=
 <BR>&gt; ass to sit in a corner and do what I love. I'd rather be playing =
than <BR>&gt; anything else, so I provide them some atmosphere and get a wo=
rld of <BR>&gt; enjoyment in return, $20 or no $20.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; As a s=
ide note, every experimental/arts venue I've played at or talked <BR>&gt; t=
o so far has, actually, made a point of charging a cover and then <BR>&gt; =
giving the bulk (if not all) the door to the musicians.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Da=
ryl Shawn<BR>&gt; www.swanwelder.com<BR>&gt; www.chinapaintingmusic.com<BR>=
&gt; &gt; Never play for free.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><br /><hr />News, Sports, En=
tertainment and Weather on your mobile.  <a href=3D'http://mobile.uk.msn.co=
m/pc/msn_content.aspx' target=3D'_new'>Text MSN to 63463 Now.</a></body>
</html>=

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 14:40:34 2008
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From: "Krispen Hartung" <khartung@cableone.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
References: <20080414023117.6AB883BE97@arsenic.violacea.com> <BAY129-W250704BE0B8CE6B0B53927C3E80@phx.gbl> <5FF883F7-3CFD-4F8C-8488-A351BDC536FC@gmx.net> <1bef01c89e6b$e46cbd40$6601a8c0@americas.hpqcorp.net> <4803BDB5.509@minds-eye.org> <4803ED4B.5010200@adelphia.net> <1cdb01c89e91$6b178850$6601a8c0@americas.hpqcorp.net> <4804052A.6040907@mhorse.com> <1d4201c89eb4$badf2ff0$6601a8c0@americas.hpqcorp.net> <480438FE.20300@mhorse.com> <55c7bc950804142241i50c81b28t959ddf6a526d8b7@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Derek Baily Improvisation TV
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That is a good analogy, especially if we are proposing the use of =
transcription to lay the foundation for children composing and reading =
music, vs. teaching adults or even children how to improvise.=20

started to study music when I was 9 years old (old by some standards), =
taking formal lessons on the flute, moving to sax and guitar at 12 (with =
classical guitar lessons for several years), and then switched to guitar =
only at age 16. And never once was I ever asked by an instructor to =
transcribe a piece of music I heard. I read tons of music, sheets and =
sheets of everything concert and jazz and music, to classical, but never =
transcribed. No one taught me how to improvise, and my parents didn't =
really improvise musically either.  I believe it was innate and just a =
matter of having the right experiences to bring out that ability in me.  =
Transcription would have stiffled it, likely. For me, it is too formal =
and restrictive to teach the freedom of improvisation.  I just started =
doing it at an early age, even before I started formally training on an =
instrument.  Again, I am just referring to a sub-set of learners her, =
not all.  One point that comes to my mind on why the analogy has some =
drawbacks is that that unlike like human language, with music a child or =
adult is not necessarly "required" to notate music to play music. I know =
a jazz guitarist here in Boise who is really amazing, I mean like Joe =
Pass/George Benson amazing, and he can't read or write music. He can =
read chord sheets, and that's it. He gets just as many gigs as any other =
jazz musician in town, and if the gig requires learning a piece of =
music, he learns it by ear rather than learning it from the written =
page. So, with music, it appears that one can get by just fine in many =
contexts without having to read or write music; but with human language, =
we have made it rather difficult for a person to get by in society =
without writing.  Though I imagine there might be musical contexts where =
it is impossible to get by without reading music, like classical, =
session work, etc. But if we're talking strictly about learning to =
improvise, then the analogy is less relevant generally, and more =
personal.

So, to summarize my point. I believe and agree that transcription can be =
useful for teaching children or adults how to play/read/write music or =
improvise, but not for all children or adults - because I have seen =
clear examples of where this approach was a detriment to the learner's =
experience, not an enhancement.  Works for some, doesn't for others.

Kris


----- Original Message -----=20


  the reason transcription is brought up so often is that it similar to =
the way we learn how to read and write. the way children acquire =
language works through a process of sound before symbol.

  child imitates parents (babble, nonsense words)
  child mimics specific words and attaches meaning in order to =
communicate (bottle, up, down...)
  child learns to associate the sounds of words with the pictures
  child learns to associate the the sounds of words to the symbols=20
  after much trial and error a child is able to form sentences (aurally, =
but not orally)
  eventually they learn how to notate what they have been saying

  we acquire our musical language this way also. writing music down =
isn't necessary to compose a piece, but it does make it easier over time =
to categorize many of the aural musical ideas we have in our ears in to =
paper. there is nothing wrong with skipping the final process of =
notating your transcriptions, and sometimes knowing which sections to =
transcribe can save much time, and i think it is the final step to =
developing a sophisticated understanding of any musical aesthetic.=20

  cheers,

  paul


  On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 10:11 PM, Daryl Shawn <highhorse@mhorse.com> =
wrote:

    Interesting debate, for sure, especially as transcription is a =
widely used tool. I'll repeat my belief that transcription does improve =
ear training. However, I'm not talking about necessarily notating it - I =
should have made that distinction; my definition of transcription means =
listening to music and transferring it to one's own instrument. Notation =
on paper is a laborious step that doesn't directly address the ear =
training that I think is the main benefit. The hour it'd take to notate =
a tune may be better spent learning to recognize quickly what's going on =
in five or six other tunes.

    I'll notate difficult rhythms sometimes to know precisely what is =
going on. Easier for me to hear a minor sixth chord than a group of =
seven at high tempo.

    I agree that all kinds of ways of ear training are possible, and I =
do not think transcription has to necessarily be part of that. I =
literally refused to do it at school (being focused on building an =
encyclopedia of licks), it's only since then that I've done it, somewhat =
informally, and believe I'm seeing some benefit.

    I hate "licks". Even the word. Don't get me started on avoid notes.. =
:-D


    Daryl Shawn
    www.swanwelder.com
    www.chinapaintingmusic.com



      ----- Original Message -----

        with homicide, it's all in the intent. Transcription without a =
doubt improves ear training, which is crucial for improvisation.


      I think this is what is debatable, you think?  I mean, you =
wouldn't force feed this learning approach on all learners I hope....? =
That seems a bit unfair, given all the different types of learning =
styles and learners out there.  This is why modern learning technology =
incorporates learning methods that address most all major learning =
styles - textual, verbal, visual, kinesthetic, etc. It is a real =
injustice that many music students have probably given up their =
instruments because some old school teacher has attempted to force a =
particular learning approach on them, that didn't complement their =
individual learning styles. It's a tradegy in my opinion, and very sad.

      For me, transcription did nothing but take time and =
elongate/burden the learning process. I could learn phrases and licks 50 =
times faster by ear. So, again in my own personal experience, =
transcription served no value except to take more time. I already know =
how to notate music and read it (even sight read basic material), so =
transcribing stuff that someone else already wrote was really a clunky =
and inefficient way of learning their technique, etc.   For me, it just =
didn't add up how transcribing something that someone else already =
created, could help me be a better improviser.  It went against the =
grain of my personal learning style, which is the main point here. =
Really interesting topic.

      Kris


      I do it all

        the time myself, informally when listening to music, trying to =
nail the chord progression and picturing the melody on the fretboard, =
then going to the guitar and seeing how correct I was. Every once in a =
great while I'll write out the rhythmic values.

        Now, during my time in music school I was constantly harangued =
to transcribe things in order to "learn a lick and then practice it in =
all 12 keys". I felt then, and still feel, that this is a terrible =
approach to improvisation. Stringing pre-fab phrases together...ack. =
What good is that going to do anyone, except to make it seem as if you =
have an understanding of music you actually don't, and have ideas you =
don't? I simply refused this approach (didn't help my grades).

        My feeling is that, if you can hum a little melody, you can =
improvise. Practice should be oriented toward making it so that playing =
your instrument is easy as humming; the goal is that all thought should =
go into the music you want to hear coming out, not the technical task of =
playing the instrument.

        Daryl Shawn
        www.swanwelder.com
        www.chinapaintingmusic.com


          You disagree with my own experience of transcription? How the =
heck is that possible? That's like me saying I like strawberry icecream =
better than vanilla, and you disagreeing.  :)  My own experience and my =
learning style contradicts everything you say below. That's just one =
person's learning style vs. millions of others.

          Kris

          ----- Original Message -----


                I also like Bailey's interpretation of the value of =
transcribing in jazz or in learning to improvise. I've never found that =
as a useful tool, in terms of making me a better player or increasing my =
improvisation skills...maybe making it easier for me to copy other =
players' licks and clich=E9s, but nothing from a creative standpoint.


            I have to disagree with this. I suppose if you go into =
transcription with the goal of hijacking somebody else's style, that's =
all you'll get out of it. But transcription is an excellent form of ear =
training, and I would argue that good ears are, if anything, even more =
important in authentic free playing than in the mainstream. And nothing =
says you have to restrict your transcription to solo instruments. Try to =
pry apart some of Maria Schneider's dense large-ensemble jazz voicings; =
even though I can do it imperfectly, I think it can greatly improve =
one's clarity of expression.

            Brian















  --=20
  http://twitter.com/becausetheydead 
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>That is a good analogy, especially if =
we are=20
proposing&nbsp;the use of transcription to lay the foundation for =
children=20
composing and reading music, vs. teaching adults or even =
children&nbsp;how to=20
improvise. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>started to study music when I was 9 =
years old (old=20
by some standards), taking formal lessons on the flute, moving to sax =
and guitar=20
at 12 (with classical guitar lessons for several years), and then =
switched to=20
guitar only&nbsp;at age 16. And never once was I ever asked by an =
instructor to=20
transcribe a piece of music I heard. I read tons of music, sheets and =
sheets of=20
everything concert and jazz and music, to classical,&nbsp;but never=20
transcribed.&nbsp;No&nbsp;one taught me how to improvise, and my parents =
didn't=20
really improvise musically either.&nbsp; I&nbsp;believe it was innate =
and just a=20
matter of having the right experiences to bring out that ability in =
me.&nbsp;=20
Transcription would have stiffled it, likely. For me, it is too formal =
and=20
restrictive to&nbsp;teach the freedom of improvisation.&nbsp;&nbsp;I =
just=20
started&nbsp;doing it at an&nbsp;early age, even before I started =
formally=20
training on an instrument.&nbsp;&nbsp;Again,&nbsp;I am just referring to =
a=20
sub-set of learners her, not all. &nbsp;One point that&nbsp;comes to my =
mind on=20
why the analogy&nbsp;has some drawbacks is that&nbsp;that unlike like =
human=20
language,&nbsp;with music a child or adult is&nbsp;not necessarly=20
"required"&nbsp;to&nbsp;notate music to play music. I know a jazz =
guitarist here=20
in Boise who is really amazing, I mean like Joe Pass/George Benson =
amazing, and=20
he can't read or write music. He can read chord sheets, and that's it. =
He gets=20
just as many gigs as any other jazz musician in town, and if the gig =
requires=20
learning a piece of music, he learns it by ear rather than learning it =
from the=20
written page. So, with music, it appears that one can get by just fine =
in many=20
contexts without having to read or write music; but with&nbsp;human =
language, we=20
have made it rather difficult for a person to get by in society without=20
writing.&nbsp; Though I imagine there might be musical contexts where it =
is=20
impossible to get by without reading music, like classical, session =
work, etc.=20
But if we're talking strictly about learning to improvise, then the =
analogy is=20
less relevant generally, and more personal.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So, to summarize my point. I believe =
and agree=20
that&nbsp;transcription can be useful for teaching children or adults =
how to=20
play/read/write music or improvise, but not for all children&nbsp;or =
adults -=20
because I have seen clear examples of where this approach was a =
detriment to the=20
learner's experience, not an enhancement.&nbsp; Works for some, doesn't =
for=20
others.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>the=20
  reason transcription is brought up so often is that it similar to the =
way we=20
  learn how to read and write. the way children acquire language works =
through a=20
  process of sound before symbol.<BR><BR>child imitates parents (babble, =

  nonsense words)<BR>child mimics specific words and attaches meaning in =
order=20
  to communicate (bottle, up, down...)<BR>child learns to associate the =
sounds=20
  of words with the pictures<BR>child learns to associate the the sounds =
of=20
  words to the symbols <BR>after much trial and error a child is able to =
form=20
  sentences (aurally, but not orally)<BR>eventually they learn how to =
notate=20
  what they have been saying<BR><BR>we acquire our musical language this =
way=20
  also. writing music down isn't necessary to compose a piece, but it =
does make=20
  it easier over time to categorize many of the aural musical ideas we =
have in=20
  our ears in to paper. there is nothing wrong with skipping the final =
process=20
  of notating your transcriptions, and sometimes knowing which sections =
to=20
  transcribe can save much time, and i think it is the final step to =
developing=20
  a sophisticated understanding of any musical aesthetic.=20
  <BR><BR>cheers,<BR><BR>paul<BR><BR>
  <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 10:11 PM, Daryl Shawn =
&lt;<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:highhorse@mhorse.com">highhorse@mhorse.com</A>&gt; =
wrote:<BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">Interesting=20
    debate, for sure, especially as transcription is a widely used tool. =
I'll=20
    repeat my belief that transcription does improve ear training. =
However, I'm=20
    not talking about necessarily notating it - I should have made that=20
    distinction; my definition of transcription means listening to music =
and=20
    transferring it to one's own instrument. Notation on paper is a =
laborious=20
    step that doesn't directly address the ear training that I think is =
the main=20
    benefit. The hour it'd take to notate a tune may be better spent =
learning to=20
    recognize quickly what's going on in five or six other =
tunes.<BR><BR>I'll=20
    notate difficult rhythms sometimes to know precisely what is going =
on.=20
    Easier for me to hear a minor sixth chord than a group of seven at =
high=20
    tempo.<BR><BR>I agree that all kinds of ways of ear training are =
possible,=20
    and I do not think transcription has to necessarily be part of that. =
I=20
    literally refused to do it at school (being focused on building an=20
    encyclopedia of licks), it's only since then that I've done it, =
somewhat=20
    informally, and believe I'm seeing some benefit.<BR><BR>I hate =
"licks". Even=20
    the word. Don't get me started on avoid notes.. :-D
    <DIV>
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV class=3DWj3C7c><BR><BR>Daryl Shawn<BR><A =
href=3D"http://www.swanwelder.com"=20
    target=3D_blank>www.swanwelder.com</A><BR><A=20
    href=3D"http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com"=20
    target=3D_blank>www.chinapaintingmusic.com</A><BR><BR><BR>
    <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
    style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px =
solid">-----=20
      Original Message -----<BR>
      <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
      style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px =
solid">with=20
        homicide, it's all in the intent. Transcription without a doubt =
improves=20
        ear training, which is crucial for =
improvisation.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I=20
      think this is what is debatable, you think? &nbsp;I mean, you =
wouldn't=20
      force feed this learning approach on all learners I hope....? That =
seems a=20
      bit unfair, given all the different types of learning styles and =
learners=20
      out there. &nbsp;This is why modern learning technology =
incorporates=20
      learning methods that address most all major learning styles - =
textual,=20
      verbal, visual, kinesthetic, etc. It is a real injustice that many =
music=20
      students have probably given up their instruments because some old =
school=20
      teacher has attempted to force a particular learning approach on =
them,=20
      that didn't complement their individual learning styles. It's a =
tradegy in=20
      my opinion, and very sad.<BR><BR>For me, transcription did nothing =
but=20
      take time and elongate/burden the learning process. I could learn =
phrases=20
      and licks 50 times faster by ear. So, again in my own personal =
experience,=20
      transcription served no value except to take more time. I already =
know how=20
      to notate music and read it (even sight read basic material), so=20
      transcribing stuff that someone else already wrote was really a =
clunky and=20
      inefficient way of learning their technique, etc. &nbsp; For me, =
it just=20
      didn't add up how transcribing something that someone else already =

      created, could help me be a better improviser. &nbsp;It went =
against the=20
      grain of my personal learning style, which is the main point here. =
Really=20
      interesting topic.<BR><BR>Kris<BR><BR><BR>I do it all<BR>
      <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
      style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px =
solid">the=20
        time myself, informally when listening to music, trying to nail =
the=20
        chord progression and picturing the melody on the fretboard, =
then going=20
        to the guitar and seeing how correct I was. Every once in a =
great while=20
        I'll write out the rhythmic values.<BR><BR>Now, during my time =
in music=20
        school I was constantly harangued to transcribe things in order =
to=20
        "learn a lick and then practice it in all 12 keys". I felt then, =
and=20
        still feel, that this is a terrible approach to improvisation. =
Stringing=20
        pre-fab phrases together...ack. What good is that going to do =
anyone,=20
        except to make it seem as if you have an understanding of music =
you=20
        actually don't, and have ideas you don't? I simply refused this =
approach=20
        (didn't help my grades).<BR><BR>My feeling is that, if you can =
hum a=20
        little melody, you can improvise. Practice should be oriented =
toward=20
        making it so that playing your instrument is easy as humming; =
the goal=20
        is that all thought should go into the music you want to hear =
coming=20
        out, not the technical task of playing the =
instrument.<BR><BR>Daryl=20
        Shawn<BR><A href=3D"http://www.swanwelder.com"=20
        target=3D_blank>www.swanwelder.com</A><BR><A=20
        href=3D"http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com"=20
        target=3D_blank>www.chinapaintingmusic.com</A><BR><BR>
        <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
        style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px =
solid">You=20
          disagree with my own experience of transcription? How the heck =
is that=20
          possible? That's like me saying I like strawberry icecream =
better than=20
          vanilla, and you disagreeing. &nbsp;:) &nbsp;My own experience =
and my=20
          learning style contradicts everything you say below. That's =
just one=20
          person's learning style vs. millions of=20
          others.<BR><BR>Kris<BR><BR>----- Original Message =
-----<BR><BR>
          <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
          style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px =
solid">
            <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
            style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) =
1px solid">
              <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
              style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) =
1px solid">I=20
                also like Bailey's interpretation of the value of =
transcribing=20
                in jazz or in learning to improvise. I've never found =
that as a=20
                useful tool, in terms of making me a better player or =
increasing=20
                my improvisation skills...maybe making it easier for me =
to copy=20
                other players' licks and clich=E9s, but nothing from a =
creative=20
                standpoint.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I have to =
disagree with=20
            this. I suppose if you go into transcription with the goal =
of=20
            hijacking somebody else's style, that's all you'll get out =
of it.=20
            But transcription is an excellent form of ear training, and =
I would=20
            argue that good ears are, if anything, even more important =
in=20
            authentic free playing than in the mainstream. And nothing =
says you=20
            have to restrict your transcription to solo instruments. Try =
to pry=20
            apart some of Maria Schneider's dense large-ensemble jazz =
voicings;=20
            even though I can do it imperfectly, I think it can greatly =
improve=20
            one's clarity of=20
        =
expression.<BR><BR>Brian<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></B=
LOCKQUOTE><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR=
=20
  clear=3Dall><BR>-- <BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://twitter.com/becausetheydead">http://twitter.com/becausethe=
ydead</A>=20
</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 14:43:48 2008
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From: "Krispen Hartung" <khartung@cableone.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
References: <501103.17213.qm@web34306.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: (Derek Baily) Improvisation (TV)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:10:20 -0600
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Out of my own curiousity, once you do learn how to play a part on your =
bass, what do you do with it then? How does it improve your =
improvisation skills? I'm assuming you don't copy what you learn, as =
that isn't actually improvising.  In short, if you are not actually =
copying anthing, notes, approach, etc, what is it that you learn that =
helps you be a better improvisor?   =20

I'll have to be careful here, because we may also be confusing two types =
of improvisation, which Bailey and others have discussed. I just have =
done this a long time ago in this thread. I apologize.  One type of =
improv is totally free and spontaneous improvisation; the other is where =
players memorize morifs, cliches, phrases, etc - all a part of their bag =
of tools and tricks - and then they re-apply those bits and pieces in an =
improvisational setting. But there is no "creatio ad nihilo" in this =
latter context; rather the improv is in the application of the =
pre-learned tools, not creating completely new things on the fly.  I am =
more interested in the spontaneous form of improv.

Kris

----- Original Message -----=20

  I've been improvising for about 6 years now and I'll concur with the =
'transfered transposing' approach as a worthwhile.

  I listen to a record (being a bassist, I'm partial to that instrument) =
of William Parker, Peter Kowald, Wilbert De Joode or non-bassists like =
Eddie Prevost, Steve Lacy, Derek Bailey, etc. and when I hear something =
interesting, I wonder 'how did they make that sound and how can I make =
it on my bass.'

  I don't usually end up even close to that sound but I usually discover =
something interesting along the way.


  Ted Harms.


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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Out of my own curiousity, once you do =
learn how to=20
play a part on your bass, what do you do with it then? How does it =
improve your=20
improvisation skills? I'm assuming you don't copy what you learn, as =
that isn't=20
actually improvising.&nbsp; In short, if you are not actually copying =
anthing,=20
notes, approach, etc, what is it that you learn that helps you be a =
better=20
improvisor?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'll have to be careful here, because =
we may also=20
be confusing two types of improvisation, which Bailey and others have =
discussed.=20
I just have done this a long time ago in this thread. I apologize. =
&nbsp;One=20
type of improv is totally free and spontaneous improvisation; the other =
is where=20
players memorize morifs, cliches, phrases, etc - all a part of their bag =
of=20
tools and tricks - and then they re-apply those bits and pieces in an=20
improvisational setting. But there is no "creatio ad nihilo" in this =
latter=20
context; rather the improv is in the application of the pre-learned =
tools, not=20
creating completely new things on the fly.&nbsp; I am more interested in =
the=20
spontaneous form of improv.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- <BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>I've been improvising for about 6 years now and I'll concur with =
the=20
  'transfered transposing' approach as a worthwhile.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>I listen to a record (being a bassist, I'm partial to that =
instrument) of=20
  William Parker, Peter Kowald, Wilbert De Joode or non-bassists like =
Eddie=20
  Prevost, Steve Lacy, Derek Bailey, etc. and when I hear something =
interesting,=20
  I wonder 'how did they make that sound and how can I make it on my=20
bass.'</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>I don't&nbsp;usually end up even close to that sound but I=20
  usually&nbsp;discover something interesting along the way.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Ted Harms.<BR><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Subject: Re: This is your brain on jazz -- MRI studies of improvisation
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Finally!  I found the Bailey passage on transcription and improvisation:

"Transcription, it seems to me, far from being an aid to understanding =
improvisation, deflect attention towards peripheral considerations. In =
fact there is very little technical description of any kind, simply =
because almost all the musicians I spoke to chose to discuss =
improvisation mainly in 'abstract' terms. In fact there was a commonly =
held suspicion that a close technical approach was, for this subject, =
uninformative. In general, intuitive descriptions were preferred...."

I find this very interesting, especially that the viewpoint was shared =
by most all his interviewees (successful improvisers). And this is the =
original idea in the book that resonated well with me personally, and my =
personal learning experience and history of improvisation.  The only =
thing technical that has contributed to me being able to improvise is =
the physical dexterity and fretboard knowledge I acquired after playing =
basic and rudimentary exercises for years and year....sort of like being =
an athlete and stretching and working out prior to a competition.  =
Beyond this, my ability to improvise was all learned non-technically. =
Musical ideas spontaneously pop in my head (based on thoughts, feelings, =
etc), and the question is whether I have the physical dexterity and =
mental mapping of my fretboard to be able to execute them quickly in =
real time. The intersection of these ideas and my ability to execute is, =
for me, the central thrust of my entire improvisational energy. =
Everything else is peripheral.

However, I have to say that much earlier on as I was learning to =
improvise, I had to prime the well of creative waters with my technical =
knowledge of phrases, scales, phrases, theory, etc. It was sort of =
improvisational mimicry...randomly regurgitating pre-conceived ideas to =
simulate free improvisation (many listeners wouldn't be able to tell the =
difference).  That only occurred for a short time and soon became a =
detriment (constraint) more than a benefit; once the well was primed, I =
threw all the prior knowledge aside and was able to spontaneously create =
the ideas on my own.=20

Free and spontaneous improvisation is so fascinating to me. On one hand, =
it seems so mystical and hard to pin down; yet on the other hand, doing =
it is the most simple, natural, and free thing in the world for me. It =
is liberating.

Kris

------=_NextPart_000_1D9A_01C89ED2.CCF9E8B0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3268" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Finally!&nbsp; I found the Bailey =
passage on=20
transcription and improvisation:</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>
<DIV><BR>"Transcription, it seems to me, far from being an aid to =
understanding=20
improvisation, deflect attention towards peripheral considerations. In =
fact=20
there is very little technical description of any kind, simply because =
almost=20
all the musicians I spoke to chose to discuss improvisation mainly in =
'abstract'=20
terms. In fact there was a commonly held suspicion that a close =
technical=20
approach was, for this subject, uninformative. In general, intuitive=20
descriptions were preferred...."</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I find this very interesting, especially that the viewpoint was =
shared by=20
most all his interviewees (successful improvisers). And this is the =
original=20
idea in the book that resonated well with me personally, and my personal =

learning experience and history of improvisation.&nbsp; The only thing =
technical=20
that has contributed to me being able to improvise is the physical =
dexterity and=20
fretboard knowledge I acquired after playing basic and rudimentary =
exercises for=20
years and year....sort of like being an athlete and stretching and =
working out=20
prior to a competition.&nbsp; Beyond this, my ability to improvise was =
all=20
learned non-technically. <STRONG>Musical ideas spontaneously pop in my =
head=20
(based on thoughts, feelings, etc), and the question is whether I have =
the=20
physical dexterity and&nbsp;mental mapping&nbsp;of my fretboard to be =
able to=20
execute them quickly in real time. The intersection of these ideas and =
my=20
ability to execute is, for me, the central thrust of my entire =
improvisational=20
energy. Everything else is peripheral.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>However, I have to say that much earlier on as I was learning to =
improvise,=20
I had to prime the well of creative waters with my technical knowledge =
of=20
phrases, scales, phrases, theory, etc. It was sort of improvisational=20
mimicry...randomly regurgitating pre-conceived ideas to simulate free=20
improvisation (many listeners wouldn't be able to tell the difference).=20
&nbsp;That only occurred for a short time and soon became a detriment=20
(constraint) more than a&nbsp;benefit;&nbsp;once the well was primed, I =
threw=20
all the prior knowledge aside and was able to spontaneously create the =
ideas on=20
my own. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Free and spontaneous improvisation is so fascinating to me. On one =
hand, it=20
seems&nbsp;so mystical and hard to pin down; yet on the other hand, =
doing it is=20
the most simple, natural, and free thing in the world for me. It is=20
liberating.</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Kris</DIV>
<DIV></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_1D9A_01C89ED2.CCF9E8B0--

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On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 4:23 PM, phillip wilson <phillwilson@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> musician, i just simply think if ou took away ALL financial incentives to
> play you would be left with the people who play with a passion because it
> means as much to them as any other form of interaction that we define
> humanity by.



Phillip,

That's right, but I think you're leaving out one important factor
here: None of these players, that love what they they are doing, will
ever become absolutely fantastic simply because they can't finance the
time needed for that to happen. That is my only argument, and the
reason I want to pay for music when it's good.

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com

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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:08:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: ditch wrestler <ditchwrestler@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: (Derek Baily) Improvisation (TV)
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Yup, I'm talking totally "free/spontaneous/nonidiomatic" improv, not "jazz/folk/play over chords/repeatable" improv.
   
  What I do with the bits that I copy/learn/figure out is that they go into the mental quiver and hopefully can be succesfully remembered and drawn out later!  What I'm looking for is the process of discovery and trying to benefit by somebody that's done the same thing.
   
  For example, I know Mark Dresser has a pick-up installed in the neck of his bass so he can finger a note and then pluck it on the nut-side of the string.  So, even though I don't have my bass modified like his, I can still do that and have; it doesn't produce the same effect, though, but it's close enough for me.
   
  Yes, as discussed here previously, taking free/spontaneous improv to the extreme results in some people saying that they can't approach their instrument without preconceived notions, habits, patterns, etc.  I don't know of too many improv players that preach a totally 'naive' approach to their instrument but I'm sure some do.
   
  So, while I do try to approach my instrument without any preconceived notions of what I'm going to play or how I'm going to play, I still retain techniques and kernels - how I hold my bass, how do I use the bow, etc.  Do I repeat myself in some way?  Sure!  Do I take things I know and put them in a blender (like play Led Zep's "Black Dog" backwards)?  Sure!
   
  But I'm hoping it's being done sympatheticly with what the other players around me are doing.
   
   
  
Krispen Hartung <khartung@cableone.net> wrote:
          Out of my own curiousity, once you do learn how to play a part on your bass, what do you do with it then? How does it improve your improvisation skills? I'm assuming you don't copy what you learn, as that isn't actually improvising.  In short, if you are not actually copying anthing, notes, approach, etc, what is it that you learn that helps you be a better improvisor?    
   
  I'll have to be careful here, because we may also be confusing two types of improvisation, which Bailey and others have discussed. I just have done this a long time ago in this thread. I apologize.  One type of improv is totally free and spontaneous improvisation; the other is where players memorize morifs, cliches, phrases, etc - all a part of their bag of tools and tricks - and then they re-apply those bits and pieces in an improvisational setting. But there is no "creatio ad nihilo" in this latter context; rather the improv is in the application of the pre-learned tools, not creating completely new things on the fly.  I am more interested in the spontaneous form of improv.
   
  Kris
   
  ----- Original Message ----- 

    I've been improvising for about 6 years now and I'll concur with the 'transfered transposing' approach as a worthwhile.
   
  I listen to a record (being a bassist, I'm partial to that instrument) of William Parker, Peter Kowald, Wilbert De Joode or non-bassists like Eddie Prevost, Steve Lacy, Derek Bailey, etc. and when I hear something interesting, I wonder 'how did they make that sound and how can I make it on my bass.'
   
  I don't usually end up even close to that sound but I usually discover something interesting along the way.
   
   
  Ted Harms.




 between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99        
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<div>Yup, I'm talking totally "free/spontaneous/nonidiomatic" improv, not "jazz/folk/play over chords/repeatable" improv.</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>What I do with the bits that I copy/learn/figure out is that they go into the mental quiver and hopefully can be succesfully remembered and drawn out&nbsp;later!&nbsp; What I'm looking for is the process of discovery and trying to benefit by somebody that's done the same thing.</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>For example, I know Mark Dresser has a pick-up installed in the neck of his bass so he can finger a note and then pluck it on the nut-side of the string.&nbsp; So, even though I don't have my bass modified like his, I can still do that and have; it doesn't produce the same effect, though, but it's close enough for me.</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>Yes, as discussed here previously,&nbsp;taking free/spontaneous improv to the&nbsp;extreme results in some people saying that they can't approach their instrument without
 preconceived notions, habits, patterns, etc.&nbsp; I don't know of too many improv players that preach a totally 'naive' approach to their instrument but I'm sure some do.</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>So, while I do try to approach my instrument without any preconceived notions of what I'm going to play or how I'm going to play, I still retain techniques and kernels - how&nbsp;I hold my bass, how do I use the bow, etc.&nbsp; Do I repeat myself in some way?&nbsp; Sure!&nbsp; Do I take things I know and put them in a blender (like play Led Zep's "Black Dog"&nbsp;backwards)?&nbsp; Sure!</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>But I'm&nbsp;hoping it's being done&nbsp;sympatheticly with&nbsp;what&nbsp;the other players around me are doing.</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div><BR><B><I>Krispen Hartung &lt;khartung@cableone.net&gt;</I></B> wrote:</div>  <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">  <META
 content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3268" name=GENERATOR>  <STYLE></STYLE>    <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Out of my own curiousity, once you do learn how to play a part on your bass, what do you do with it then? How does it improve your improvisation skills? I'm assuming you don't copy what you learn, as that isn't actually improvising.&nbsp; In short, if you are not actually copying anthing, notes, approach, etc, what is it that you learn that helps you be a better improvisor?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'll have to be careful here, because we may also be confusing two types of improvisation, which Bailey and others have discussed. I just have done this a long time ago in this thread. I apologize. &nbsp;One type of improv is totally free and spontaneous improvisation; the other is where players memorize morifs, cliches, phrases, etc - all a part of their bag of tools and tricks - and then they
 re-apply those bits and pieces in an improvisational setting. But there is no "creatio ad nihilo" in this latter context; rather the improv is in the application of the pre-learned tools, not creating completely new things on the fly.&nbsp; I am more interested in the spontaneous form of improv.</FONT></DIV>  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Kris</FONT></DIV>  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV>----- Original Message ----- <BR></DIV>  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">  <DIV>I've been improvising for about 6 years now and I'll concur with the 'transfered transposing' approach as a worthwhile.</DIV>  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV>I listen to a record (being a bassist, I'm partial to that instrument) of William Parker, Peter Kowald, Wilbert De Joode or non-bassists like Eddie Prevost, Steve Lacy, Derek Bailey, etc.
 and when I hear something interesting, I wonder 'how did they make that sound and how can I make it on my bass.'</DIV>  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV>I don't&nbsp;usually end up even close to that sound but I usually&nbsp;discover something interesting along the way.</DIV>  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV>Ted Harms.<BR><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><p>&#32;

between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99 
      &nbsp;
--0-2067821479-1208272082=:10523--

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Short time lurker, first time poster.

In my experience, learning licks, idiomatic expressions, and the like  
from transcription /can/ be a prelude to regurgitation of those  
sounds, but a higher form of this work is to develop technical  
fluency.  If I learn, say, a Scott LeFaro bass line from a record, the  
point isn't to play Scott's licks when I improvise, but rather to gain  
insight into how he approached the bass.  By incorporating another's  
playing into one's own, it's possible to develop a wider range of  
expression and an enhancement of one's own style and sound.

Scott

On Apr 15, 2008, at 10:10 AM, Krispen Hartung wrote:

> Out of my own curiousity, once you do learn how to play a part on  
> your bass, what do you do with it then? How does it improve your  
> improvisation skills? I'm assuming you don't copy what you learn, as  
> that isn't actually improvising.  In short, if you are not actually  
> copying anthing, notes, approach, etc, what is it that you learn  
> that helps you be a better improvisor?
>
> I'll have to be careful here, because we may also be confusing two  
> types of improvisation, which Bailey and others have discussed. I  
> just have done this a long time ago in this thread. I apologize.   
> One type of improv is totally free and spontaneous improvisation;  
> the other is where players memorize morifs, cliches, phrases, etc -  
> all a part of their bag of tools and tricks - and then they re-apply  
> those bits and pieces in an improvisational setting. But there is no  
> "creatio ad nihilo" in this latter context; rather the improv is in  
> the application of the pre-learned tools, not creating completely  
> new things on the fly.  I am more interested in the spontaneous form  
> of improv.
>
> Kris
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> I've been improvising for about 6 years now and I'll concur with the  
> 'transfered transposing' approach as a worthwhile.
>
> I listen to a record (being a bassist, I'm partial to that  
> instrument) of William Parker, Peter Kowald, Wilbert De Joode or non- 
> bassists like Eddie Prevost, Steve Lacy, Derek Bailey, etc. and when  
> I hear something interesting, I wonder 'how did they make that sound  
> and how can I make it on my bass.'
>
> I don't usually end up even close to that sound but I usually  
> discover something interesting along the way.
>
>
> Ted Harms.
>

--
"Divination is not a method of predicting the future, but a way of  
connecting with higher wisdom and helping one make informed decisions."
- Robert M. Place





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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>Short time lurker, first =
time poster.</div><div><br></div><div>In my experience, learning licks, =
idiomatic expressions, and the like from transcription /can/ be a =
prelude to regurgitation of those sounds, but a higher form of this work =
is to develop technical fluency. &nbsp;If I learn, say, a Scott LeFaro =
bass line from a record, the point isn't to play Scott's licks when I =
improvise, but rather to gain insight into how he approached the bass. =
&nbsp;By incorporating another's playing into one's own, it's possible =
to develop a wider range of expression and an enhancement of one's own =
style and sound.</div><div><br></div><div>Scott</div><br><div><html>On =
Apr 15, 2008, at 10:10 AM, Krispen Hartung wrote:</html><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div bgcolor=3D"#ffffff"><div><font =
face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">Out of my own curiousity, once you do learn =
how to play a part on your bass, what do you do with it then? How does =
it improve your improvisation skills? I'm assuming you don't copy what =
you learn, as that isn't actually improvising.&nbsp; In short, if you =
are not actually copying anthing, notes, approach, etc, what is it that =
you learn that helps you be a better =
improvisor?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</font></div><div><font face=3D"Arial" =
size=3D"2"></font>&nbsp;</div><div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">I'll =
have to be careful here, because we may also be confusing two types of =
improvisation, which Bailey and others have discussed. I just have done =
this a long time ago in this thread. I apologize. &nbsp;One type of =
improv is totally free and spontaneous improvisation; the other is where =
players memorize morifs, cliches, phrases, etc - all a part of their bag =
of tools and tricks - and then they re-apply those bits and pieces in an =
improvisational setting. But there is no "creatio ad nihilo" in this =
latter context; rather the improv is in the application of the =
pre-learned tools, not creating completely new things on the fly.&nbsp; =
I am more interested in the spontaneous form of =
improv.</font></div><div><font face=3D"Arial" =
size=3D"2"></font>&nbsp;</div><div><font face=3D"Arial" =
size=3D"2">Kris</font></div><div><font face=3D"Arial" =
size=3D"2"></font>&nbsp;</div><div>----- Original Message -----<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br></div><blockquote =
dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: =
5px; border-left-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-left-width: 2px; =
border-left-style: solid; margin-right: 0px; "><div>I've been =
improvising for about 6 years now and I'll concur with the 'transfered =
transposing' approach as a worthwhile.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>I =
listen to a record (being a bassist, I'm partial to that instrument) of =
William Parker, Peter Kowald, Wilbert De Joode or non-bassists like =
Eddie Prevost, Steve Lacy, Derek Bailey, etc. and when I hear something =
interesting, I wonder 'how did they make that sound and how can I make =
it on my bass.'</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>I don't&nbsp;usually end up =
even close to that sound but I usually&nbsp;discover something =
interesting along the =
way.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Ted =
Harms.<br><br></div></blockquote></div></span></blockquote></div><br><div>=
 <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
line-height: 18px; ">--</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"line-height: 18px; ">"Divination is =
not a method of predicting the future, but a way of connecting with =
higher wisdom and helping one make informed decisions."</span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"line-height:=
 18px; ">- Robert M. Place</span></div></div><div><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"> </div><br></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-16-183224580--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 15:33:42 2008
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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:33:42 +0200
From: "Per Boysen" <perboysen@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: This is your brain on jazz -- MRI studies of improvisation
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On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 4:29 PM, Krispen Hartung <khartung@cableone.net> wrote:
>   Musical ideas spontaneously pop
> in my head (based on thoughts, feelings, etc), and the question is whether I
> have the physical dexterity and mental mapping of my fretboard to be able to
> execute them quickly in real time. The intersection of these ideas and my
> ability to execute is, for me, the central thrust of my entire
> improvisational energy. Everything else is peripheral.


Now this thread is getting really inspiring! It's interesting how we
all differ here. My central thrust of improvisational energy is about
balancing in time. While I leave my body and reflexes to play the
instrument and react to the universe of sound around me I let my mind
stretch out; backwards in time and into the future at the same time.
And what I do then is to gain a taste of the general musical flow.
Where are we going? Where do we come from? What alternative paths are
ahead? Making decisions on what landscapes to explore is what I do all
the time, but without ever loosing that delicate balance in time.
Notes, scales and music theory is peripheral.


> Free and spontaneous improvisation is so fascinating to me. On one hand, it
> seems so mystical and hard to pin down; yet on the other hand, doing it is
> the most simple, natural, and free thing in the world for me. It is
> liberating.

Wonderful! Well said! :-)

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com

From sgt.anthonyorton@yahoo.com  Tue Apr 15 15:35:59 2008
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From: "SGT.ANTHONY ORTON"<sgt.anthonyorton@yahoo.com>
Subject: IMMEDIATE RESPONSE PLS
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To: undisclosed-recipients:;

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 15:36:07 2008
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Subject: RE: OT: compensation (WAS Re: Looping venue help)
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Interesting reply Per,
=20
I can see you point of view but again would argue there are many other peop=
le doing activities that take huge amounts of dedication and practice that =
also hold down a real job.
=20
Much of the British Olympic team have "normal jobs" that subsidise what the=
y do, heck, over here we even trust the lives of everyone at sea around our=
 coast to volunteers in the lifeboat service. (which actually I dont believ=
e is a good thing, because I regard saftey as a neccecity rather then a lux=
ury)
=20
My Dad keeps telling me, there are 24 useable hours in every day, I believe=
 that those greats how loved their music above all else would find cunning =
ways to make money in a manner that still afforded the time to make music.
=20
Just to reiterate at this point Im imagining a world where the value was ne=
ver placed on being paid for making music not some kind of  governmen ban o=
n payments
=20
phill
=20
> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:06:29 +0200> From: perboysen@gmail.com> To: Loo=
pers-Delight@loopers-delight.com> Subject: Re: OT: compensation (WAS Re: Lo=
oping venue help)> > On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 4:23 PM, phillip wilson <phill=
wilson@hotmail.com> wrote:> >> > musician, i just simply think if ou took a=
way ALL financial incentives to> > play you would be left with the people w=
ho play with a passion because it> > means as much to them as any other for=
m of interaction that we define> > humanity by.> > > > Phillip,> > That's r=
ight, but I think you're leaving out one important factor> here: None of th=
ese players, that love what they they are doing, will> ever become absolute=
ly fantastic simply because they can't finance the> time needed for that to=
 happen. That is my only argument, and the> reason I want to pay for music =
when it's good.> > -- > Greetings from Sweden> > Per Boysen> www.boysen.se =
(Swedish)> www.looproom.com (international)> www.stockholm-athens.com>=20
_________________________________________________________________
Win 100=92s of Virgin Experience days with BigSnapSearch.com
http://www.bigsnapsearch.com=

--_3f94adf2-97d2-4618-ab85-8cd758e3adbc_
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<html>
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<body class=3D'hmmessage'>
Interesting reply Per,<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
I can see you point of view but again would argue there are many other peop=
le doing activities that take huge amounts of dedication and practice that =
also hold down a real job.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
Much of the British Olympic team have "normal jobs" that subsidise what the=
y do, heck, over here we even trust the lives of everyone at sea around our=
 coast to volunteers in the lifeboat service. (which actually I dont believ=
e is a good thing, because I regard saftey as a neccecity rather then a lux=
ury)<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
My Dad keeps telling me, there are 24 useable hours in every day, I believe=
 that those greats how loved their music above all else would find cunning =
ways to make money in a manner that still afforded the time to make music.<=
BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
Just to reiterate at this point Im imagining a world where the value was ne=
ver placed on being paid for making music not some kind of&nbsp; governmen =
ban on payments<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
phill<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:06:29 +0200<BR>&gt; From: perboysen@=
gmail.com<BR>&gt; To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<BR>&gt; Subject: =
Re: OT: compensation (WAS Re: Looping venue help)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On Tue, =
Apr 15, 2008 at 4:23 PM, phillip wilson &lt;phillwilson@hotmail.com&gt; wro=
te:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; musician, i just simply think if ou took away=
 ALL financial incentives to<BR>&gt; &gt; play you would be left with the p=
eople who play with a passion because it<BR>&gt; &gt; means as much to them=
 as any other form of interaction that we define<BR>&gt; &gt; humanity by.<=
BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Phillip,<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; That's right, =
but I think you're leaving out one important factor<BR>&gt; here: None of t=
hese players, that love what they they are doing, will<BR>&gt; ever become =
absolutely fantastic simply because they can't finance the<BR>&gt; time nee=
ded for that to happen. That is my only argument, and the<BR>&gt; reason I =
want to pay for music when it's good.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt; Greeting=
s from Sweden<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Per Boysen<BR>&gt; www.boysen.se (Swedish)<B=
R>&gt; www.looproom.com (international)<BR>&gt; www.stockholm-athens.com<BR=
>&gt; <BR><BR><br /><hr />News, Sports, Entertainment and Weather on your m=
obile.  <a href=3D'http://mobile.uk.msn.com/pc/msn_content.aspx' target=3D'=
_new'>Text MSN to 63463 Now.</a></body>
</html>=

--_3f94adf2-97d2-4618-ab85-8cd758e3adbc_--

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2008/4/15 Jaime Latorre <motisarts@gmail.com>:

> Me apunto!!!! que es verdad que hay ganas de poder ver lo que haceis y
> criticar bien criticado que todav=EDa no he tenido posibilidad....llevar=
=E9 la
> c=E1mara de fotos para hacer un buen reportaje (si es que me lo permit=ED=
s claro
> est=E1 que yo no quiero molestar)....
>
> SALUDOS
>
> P.D. Anda que con el correo que habeis mandado (nunca hab=EDa visto tanta=
s
> direcciones juntas) como no lleneis el local, mal vamos....Parece una
> competici=F3n entre los del grupo a ver quien le manda el correo a m=E1s =
gente o
> algo as=ED. Importa m=E1s quien lleve m=E1s al concierto aunque puede ser
> consecuencia directa de lo primero
> P.D. II No le he dado a responder a todos porque no creo que 200 personas
> a las que no conozco y no me conocen quieran recibir un correo mio
> P.D. III Esperemos que la gente no se raje con aquello de que es
> domingo...
> P.D. IV Muchos conciertos esta semana (toca mi tio el viernes y los happy
> hunters el jueves). =BFSoy capaz de ir a todos?
> P.D. V Se dice, se cuenta, se rumorea que hay maqueta grabada. Esta
> editada y lista para la venta? o habr=E1 que esperar a posteriores
> conciertos...
>
> 2008/4/15, Jes=FAs Manzanares <slipi.yo@gmail.com>:
>
> > [Jes=FAs: Que wapo!!! yo voy fijo, tio soys la polla, no me lo pierdo p=
or
> > nada!!!!!]
> >
> >
> > Hola a toos!
> >
> > Blind vuelve a los escenarios (esta vez sin gripes), que tenemos unas
> > ganas locas de tocar para vosotros. El rollito es el pr=F3ximo domingo =
en la
> > sala barracudas que est=E1 el la calle brecia 19<http://maps.google.com=
/maps?f=3Dq&hl=3Den&geocode=3D&q=3DMadrid,+Spain,+brecia&jsv=3D107.hc&sll=
=3D40.435189,-3.665013&sspn=3D0.010845,0.020084&ie=3DUTF8&ll=3D40.435679,-3=
.664241&spn=3D0.010845,0.020084&t=3Dh&z=3D16&iwloc=3Daddr>
> > (metro parque de las avenidas / ventas). Lo cosa empezar=E1 a las 21h e=
l
> > domingo 20 (si lo se, pero tambi=E9n mola empezar la semana de resaca).
> >
> > Os esparamos a todos!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

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<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2008/4/15 Jaime Latorre &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:motisarts@gmail.com">motisarts@gmail.com</a>&gt;:<br><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margi=
n: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Me apunto!!!! que es verdad que hay ganas de poder ver lo que haceis y crit=
icar bien criticado que todav=EDa no he tenido posibilidad....llevar=E9 la =
c=E1mara de fotos para hacer un buen reportaje (si es que me lo permit=EDs =
claro est=E1 que yo no quiero molestar)....<br>

<br>SALUDOS<br><br>P.D. Anda que con el correo que habeis mandado (nunca ha=
b=EDa visto tantas direcciones juntas) como no lleneis el local, mal vamos.=
...Parece una competici=F3n entre los del grupo a ver quien le manda el cor=
reo a m=E1s gente o algo as=ED. Importa m=E1s quien lleve m=E1s al conciert=
o aunque puede ser consecuencia directa de lo primero<br>

P.D. II No le he dado a responder a todos porque no creo que 200 personas a=
 las que no conozco y no me conocen quieran recibir un correo mio<br>P.D. I=
II Esperemos que la gente no se raje con aquello de que es domingo...<br>

P.D. IV Muchos conciertos esta semana (toca mi tio el viernes y los happy h=
unters el jueves). =BFSoy capaz de ir a todos?<br>P.D. V Se dice, se cuenta=
, se rumorea que hay maqueta grabada. Esta editada y lista para la venta? o=
 habr=E1 que esperar a posteriores conciertos...<br>

<br><div><span class=3D"gmail_quote">2008/4/15, Jes=FAs Manzanares &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:slipi.yo@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">slipi.yo@gmail.com</a>&=
gt;:</span><div><div></div><div class=3D"Wj3C7c"><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt=
 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">

<div class=3D"gmail_quote">[Jes=FAs: Que wapo!!! yo voy fijo, tio soys la p=
olla, no me lo pierdo por nada!!!!!]<span><br><br><br>Hola a toos!<br><br>B=
lind vuelve a los escenarios (esta vez sin gripes), que tenemos unas ganas =
locas de tocar para vosotros. El rollito es el pr=F3ximo domingo en la sala=
 barracudas que est=E1 el la <a href=3D"http://maps.google.com/maps?f=3Dq&a=
mp;hl=3Den&amp;geocode=3D&amp;q=3DMadrid,+Spain,+brecia&amp;jsv=3D107.hc&am=
p;sll=3D40.435189,-3.665013&amp;sspn=3D0.010845,0.020084&amp;ie=3DUTF8&amp;=
ll=3D40.435679,-3.664241&amp;spn=3D0.010845,0.020084&amp;t=3Dh&amp;z=3D16&a=
mp;iwloc=3Daddr" target=3D"_blank">calle brecia 19</a>&nbsp; (metro parque =
de las avenidas / ventas). Lo cosa empezar=E1 a las 21h el domingo 20 (si l=
o se, pero tambi=E9n mola empezar la semana de resaca). <br>




<br>Os esparamos a todos!<br><br><br>
<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;  <br><br><br>
</span></div><br>
<br clear=3D"all"></blockquote></div></div></div><br>
</blockquote></div><br>

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Message-ID: <9e0440a60804150849n750a68d2gbad1aa08c660baf9@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:49:28 -0400
From: "Jim Goodin" <jimgoodinmusic@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: OT: compensation (WAS Re: Looping venue help)
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you know I was a guy who argued a bit of the yes it would be great to be
paid but when not do it for a range of reasons from love to art to promotion
but Per's point is the first that has made me think.  I concur as I juggle a
day gig, constantly juggle things in my life to make room for music,
marketing, gigs, etc.  Bought a travel guitar years ago to have something to
take every day and play while waiting on the train simply as I wanted more
time to work on my art and it was a stage.  This has not necessarily been a
bad thing as some income did come at times more than I would ear from a NY
club and occasionally a wedding or some kind of private event has come to be
from this effort.  But that all said if I had more music related income such
as paid gigs as that is the weak link in my equation of all I do, I might
not have to work so hard to have the time or even have a day gig.  I don't
mean to be naive to that but I've thought of this a million times as I keep
working towards the elusive carrot of trying to get the very thing to
happen, in reality the answer is simple as he just pointed out.

My fear as a performing musician the other side of the argument or simple my
conflict of why when pushed comes to shove I'll still play a gig for a free
is that I got a late start performing, essentially late 30's for many
reasons, one I used to just be afraid really afraid of failure, rejection,
all the usual crap.  A really great therapist in non-traditional way helped
me transcend those obstacles and I'll forever be grateful as there was
nothing more I wanted in life than to be a performing musician other than
make a living at it so again Per your point is well taken sir...

Best

Jim
www.jimgoodinmusic.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com
www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic
www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic
www.myspace.com/eastofwhere
www.myspace.com/jimgoodinviolinelectro



On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:06 AM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 4:23 PM, phillip wilson <phillwilson@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > musician, i just simply think if ou took away ALL financial incentives
> to
> > play you would be left with the people who play with a passion because
> it
> > means as much to them as any other form of interaction that we define
> > humanity by.
>
>
>
> Phillip,
>
> That's right, but I think you're leaving out one important factor
> here: None of these players, that love what they they are doing, will
> ever become absolutely fantastic simply because they can't finance the
> time needed for that to happen. That is my only argument, and the
> reason I want to pay for music when it's good.
>
> --
> Greetings from Sweden
>
> Per Boysen
> www.boysen.se (Swedish)
> www.looproom.com (international)
> www.stockholm-athens.com
>
>

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<div>you know I was a guy who argued a bit of the yes it would be great to =
be paid but when not do it for a range of reasons from love to art to promo=
tion but Per&#39;s point is the first that has made me think.&nbsp; I concu=
r as I juggle a day gig, constantly juggle things in my life to make room f=
or music, marketing, gigs, etc.&nbsp; Bought a travel guitar years ago to h=
ave something to take every day and play while waiting on the train simply =
as I wanted more time to work on my art and it was a stage.&nbsp; This has =
not necessarily been a bad thing as some income did come at times more than=
 I would ear from a NY club and occasionally a wedding or some kind of priv=
ate event has come to be from this effort.&nbsp; But that all said if I had=
 more music related income such as paid gigs as that is the weak link in my=
 equation of all I do, I might not have to work so hard to have the time or=
 even have a day gig.&nbsp; I don&#39;t mean to be naive to that but I&#39;=
ve thought of this a million times as I keep working towards the elusive ca=
rrot of&nbsp;trying to get the very thing to happen, in reality the answer =
is simple as he just pointed out.</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>My fear as a performing musician the other side of the argument or sim=
ple my conflict of why when pushed comes to shove I&#39;ll still play a gig=
 for a free is that I got a late start performing, essentially late 30&#39;=
s for many reasons, one I used to just be afraid really afraid of failure, =
rejection, all the usual crap.&nbsp; A really great therapist in non-tradit=
ional way helped me transcend those obstacles and I&#39;ll forever be grate=
ful as there was nothing more I wanted in life than to be a performing musi=
cian other than make a living at it so again Per your point is well taken s=
ir...</div>

<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Best</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>Jim</div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.jimgoodinmusic.com/">www.jimgoodinmusic.com</a><=
/div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com/">www.chinapaintingmusic.=
com</a></div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinmusic">www.myspace.com/jimg=
oodinmusic</a></div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/chinapaintingmusic">www.myspace.com/=
chinapaintingmusic</a></div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/eastofwhere">www.myspace.com/eastofw=
here</a></div>
<div><a href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/jimgoodinviolinelectro">www.myspace.=
com/jimgoodinviolinelectro</a></div>
<div><br><br>&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:06 AM, Per Boysen &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:perboysen@gmail.com">perboysen@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<=
br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<div class=3D"Ih2E3d">On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 4:23 PM, phillip wilson &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:phillwilson@hotmail.com">phillwilson@hotmail.com</a>&gt; w=
rote:<br>&gt;<br>&gt; musician, i just simply think if ou took away ALL fin=
ancial incentives to<br>
&gt; play you would be left with the people who play with a passion because=
 it<br>&gt; means as much to them as any other form of interaction that we =
define<br>&gt; humanity by.<br><br><br><br></div>Phillip,<br><br>That&#39;s=
 right, but I think you&#39;re leaving out one important factor<br>
here: None of these players, that love what they they are doing, will<br>ev=
er become absolutely fantastic simply because they can&#39;t finance the<br=
>time needed for that to happen. That is my only argument, and the<br>reaso=
n I want to pay for music when it&#39;s good.<br>
<font color=3D"#888888"><br>--<br>Greetings from Sweden<br><br>Per Boysen<b=
r><a href=3D"http://www.boysen.se/" target=3D"_blank">www.boysen.se</a> (Sw=
edish)<br><a href=3D"http://www.looproom.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.loopro=
om.com</a> (international)<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.stockholm-athens.com/" target=3D"_blank">www.stockhol=
m-athens.com</a><br><br></font></blockquote></div><br>

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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:01:02 +0200
From: "Per Boysen" <perboysen@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: OT: compensation (WAS Re: Looping venue help)
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On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 5:36 PM, phillip wilson <phillwilson@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Interesting reply Per,
>
>  I can see you point of view but again would argue there are many other
> people doing activities that take huge amounts of dedication and practice
> that also hold down a real job.

Is that an argument for not paying for a good artist performance? What
jobs are "real" enough to qualify for supporting artistic work that is
done for free?


>  I believe
> that those greats how loved their music above all else would find cunning
> ways to make money in a manner that still afforded the time to make music.

I know that's how it is. But isn't everyone positive to pay for good
music and art? We pay for it because we love it and want it! And I
think it's just natural wanting to pay a person that creates this art
in order to keep his/her skills up and evolve without being slowed
down by "a job on the side".

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com

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Subject: Re: This is your brain on jazz -- MRI studies of improvisation
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Krispen Hartung wrote:
 
> However, I have to say that much earlier on as I was learning to 
> improvise, I had to prime the well of creative waters with my technical 
> knowledge of phrases, scales, phrases, theory, etc. It was sort of 
> improvisational mimicry...randomly regurgitating pre-conceived ideas to 
> simulate free improvisation (many listeners wouldn't be able to tell the 
> difference).  That only occurred for a short time and soon became a 
> detriment (constraint) more than a benefit; once the well was primed, I 
> threw all the prior knowledge aside and was able to spontaneously create 
> the ideas on my own.
>  

Somewhere there's a Stockhausen quote about imitation coming before innovation.
Probably from a book that was in our local library before it burned down, so
no way to trace it.
I think there was even an intermediate phase of "transformation" (taking the imitated stuff 
and changing it).

So it seems for most musicians, it starts with imitation of others (perhaps using 
transcription), and then may progress to working variations on other peoples 
ideas before ending up as innovation.

The other side of the coin might well be those who innovate because they lack the
ability to imitate. 

andy butler 
 




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To:  Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: OT: compensation (WAS Re: Looping venue help)
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Per Boysen wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 4:23 PM, phillip wilson <phillwilson@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> musician, i just simply think if ou took away ALL financial incentives to
>> play you would be left with the people who play with a passion because it
>> means as much to them as any other form of interaction that we define
>> humanity by.
> 
> 
> 
> Phillip,
> 
> That's right, but I think you're leaving out one important factor
> here: None of these players, that love what they they are doing, will
> ever become absolutely fantastic simply because they can't finance the
> time needed for that to happen. That is my only argument, and the
> reason I want to pay for music when it's good.
> 

Don't you have unemployment benefits in Sweden then ?
:-)

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I'm finding this to be a very interesting thread as we all work =20
towards perfecting our craft. Back in the 90's I made my living =20
playing the hammered dulcimer, but after a while found it too =20
restricting because in order to get the paying gigs that were =20
available I needed to stick to traditional tunes and could only slip =20
in one of my own compositions once in a while.
Finally I went back to having a day job and found it liberating as I =20
was able to refuse gigs that wanted to restrict my repetoire. The down =20
side was that since I have less time to spend practicing and working =20
on music, my developement has been slower that it was when I could =20
spend 4 or 5 hours out of every day playing music.
Recently I found myself in an interesting twist on this however, I =20
applied to play at a festival here in Ontario and was turned down for =20
a main stage spot because they want to keep those spots (between the =20
lines read better paying spots) for those musicians that are out there =20
trying to make a living at it. Now I feel that I'm playing and writing =20
some of the best music I've ever done and I have played at this =20
festival before, so this is a difficult answer to accept since it has =20
nothing to do with musicianship or ability. I am invited to play a =20
side stage for "local" musicians which will have an audience of =20
perhaps 25 people as apposed to the 2,000 + that will attend the main =20
stage performances, and like anyone I was hoping for the maximum =20
exposure for the new recording that I'm working on.

Paul Haslem
Ontario Canada
www.dulcify.ca

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Subject:  RE: OT: compensation (WAS Re: Looping venue help)
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     Phill,

     A breath of fresh air...

     Stephen


 

Why should musicians be paid,why has our (western) society decided this is correct? would the
benefits to the world in a society where no musicians are paid outweigh the benefits to the fewer
musicians who do get paid....?


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

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Maybe, maybe not.  There's plenty of artists who have that great debut
album, which is distilled from five years of writing, while holding down a
day job, and then they taper off once they "go pro".  Plus, I'd be spared
the likes of Maroon 5...

Musicians like to think that being a musician is "special" and should be
specially rewarded, and maybe music is special, but in the marketplace, it's
a good or service like any other, and it's worth what other people are
willing to pay.  And that's obviously not much, what with supply way
outstripping demand.

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 8:06 AM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Phillip,
>
> That's right, but I think you're leaving out one important factor
> here: None of these players, that love what they they are doing, will
> ever become absolutely fantastic simply because they can't finance the
> time needed for that to happen. That is my only argument, and the
> reason I want to pay for music when it's good.
>
>
>

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Maybe, maybe not.&nbsp; There&#39;s plenty of artists who have that great debut album, which is distilled from five years of writing, while holding down a day job, and then they taper off once they &quot;go pro&quot;.&nbsp; Plus, I&#39;d be spared the likes of Maroon 5...<br>
<br>Musicians like to think that being a musician is &quot;special&quot; and should be specially rewarded, and maybe music is special, but in the marketplace, it&#39;s a good or service like any other, and it&#39;s worth what other people are willing to pay.&nbsp; And that&#39;s obviously not much, what with supply way outstripping demand.<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 8:06 AM, Per Boysen &lt;<a href="mailto:perboysen@gmail.com">perboysen@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
</div>Phillip,<br>
<br>
That&#39;s right, but I think you&#39;re leaving out one important factor<br>
here: None of these players, that love what they they are doing, will<br>
ever become absolutely fantastic simply because they can&#39;t finance the<br>
time needed for that to happen. That is my only argument, and the<br>
reason I want to pay for music when it&#39;s good.<br>
<font color="#888888"><br><br></font></blockquote></div><br>

------=_Part_1966_11530183.1208280690874--

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Subject: Re: This is your brain on jazz -- MRI studies of improvisation
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:13:24 -0600
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----- Original Message ----- 
>>   (cut) and the question is whether I
>> have the physical dexterity and mental mapping of my fretboard to be able 
>> to
>> execute them quickly in real time. The intersection of these ideas and my
>> ability to execute is, for me, the central thrust of my entire
>> improvisational energy. Everything else is peripheral.

> Now this thread is getting really inspiring! It's interesting how we
> all differ here. My central thrust of improvisational energy is about
> balancing in time. While I leave my body and reflexes to play the
> instrument and react to the universe of sound around me I let my mind
> stretch out; backwards in time and into the future at the same time.

That's cool, and definititely interesting how we have varying approaches.
I guess I never said I how time factors into my playing, when I use the
above approach. I guess I try to stay "in the moment" and timeless, to
put it metaphorically.  It's amost as if I try to achieve a totally blank
state of mind, neither reflecting nor anticipating, and then let the
creative ideas flow from within, to my fingers, etc. Of course, this is
the ideal...it is easier said than done!!!  I slip into the future and past
as you say above, more as a natural reflect to the social context of
playing.

Kris

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 18:02:47 2008
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Subject: Re: This is your brain on jazz -- MRI studies of improvisation
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Brilliant comment. We often do what comes natural to us, and few of us are 
masters at everything. We prioritize our efforts, weighed against our 
strengths. I feel at home improvising in total free form.  Ask me to sit 
down and transcribe a Charlie Parker solo, and I will fight tooth and nail 
against it. It's torture for me. I could learn it by ear, but still for me I 
get no satisfaction anymore from copying other peoples' material....not even 
my own!  I once quite an original band I led, because I started to feel like 
we were a cover band of our own material. That sickened me so much that soon 
after I disbanded the group and started to explore more improvised 
music...first structured, idiomatic, and then eventually I jumped off the 
deep end completely.

Kris

> The other side of the coin might well be those who innovate because they 
> lack the
> ability to imitate.
> andy butler

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From: Travis Lund <tlund@berklee.net>
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re[2]: This is your brain on jazz -- MRI studies of improvisation
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I suppose I'll chime in on this, since this thread has grown increasingly i=
nteresting.  I kind of dig the way Stockhausen was phrasing the idea.  Remi=
nds me of an interview with Keith Richards (not an improv genius by any mea=
ns, I know) in which he was actually using the language analogy we were int=
o a bit ago when he was talking about learning to play.  The final quote wa=
s something like "nothing you ever play is actually yours.  Everything you'=
ve ever heard gets absorbed and then you filter it and it comes out as you,=
 but you're taking everything from something else."  To a certain extent I =
kind of agree.  There's only twelve notes, only a certain number of rhythmi=
c ideas and subdivisions, really our system of western music is pretty fini=
te.  (Granted you can go microtonal, but still.)  I guess I think of improv=
isation as taking what we have and placing it in a context that enhances th=
e musical aesthetic.  You wouldn't play some ridiculously "out" shit over a=
 standard, or use the Locrian mode over a regular (non-jazz-based) 12-bar b=
lues.  We are limited by the aforementioned notes and rhythms, by our instr=
uments and their characteristics (range, tambre, etc), by our own technical=
 facility as musicians, but I think of great improvising is finding places =
to fit your sound into the greater scope of the music.  Sometimes this can =
be really free playing (letting your fingers think for you instead of makin=
g conscious note choices), or randomly using filters and other electronics =
(some of the weirdest noises I've ever heard came out of a Boss DD6 Delay b=
ox when I turned the wrong knobs on a poorly lit stage).  But in other situ=
ations, I think really having ears and theory, knowing your scales, etc. is=
 the only way to get your ideas out quickly.  I'm not advocating shedding C=
oltrane solos note-for-note, but being able to "hear" want you want in your=
 head and know exactly how to get that out of your instrument is invaluable=
.  Nothing sucks more than having a great idea on stage that could take the=
 whole thing to another level, and not being able to pull it off.  Don't ge=
t me wrong, I'm actually pretty lousy at jazz (at least the harmonically co=
mplicated bop stuff), but it's something I constantly work on because not k=
nowing your craft to the fullest extent possible is ultimately going to hol=
d you back.  I know a lot of folks who say theory and such is restricting o=
r creatively detremental, but I think if you look at a lot of the "legends"=
 or "geniuses" or "innovaters" out there, you'll see a fairly consistent tr=
end of them really knowing their shit.  Disclaimer: this is not an attack o=
n anyone else's thoughts on or methodology for improv, I'm just calling it =
how I see it.  If you're making beautiful music that satisfies both self an=
d audience, I don't really care how you're doing it, because clearly whatev=
er it is is working :)  Many apologies for the lengthy rant.  =20
Peace,
-Travis
---------------------------------------
Original E-mail
From: andy butler [akbutler@tiscali.co.uk]
Date: 04/15/2008 12:15 PM=20
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: This is your brain on jazz -- MRI studies of improvisation



Krispen Hartung wrote:
=20
> However, I have to say that much earlier on as I was learning to=20
> improvise, I had to prime the well of creative waters with my technical=
=20
> knowledge of phrases, scales, phrases, theory, etc. It was sort of=20
> improvisational mimicry...randomly regurgitating pre-conceived ideas to=
=20
> simulate free improvisation (many listeners wouldn't be able to tell the=
=20
> difference).  That only occurred for a short time and soon became a=20
> detriment (constraint) more than a benefit; once the well was primed, I=
=20
> threw all the prior knowledge aside and was able to spontaneously create=
=20
> the ideas on my own.
> =20

Somewhere there's a Stockhausen quote about imitation coming before innovat=
ion.
Probably from a book that was in our local library before it burned down, s=
o
no way to trace it.
I think there was even an intermediate phase of "transformation" (taking th=
e imitated stuff=20
and changing it).

So it seems for most musicians, it starts with imitation of others (perhaps=
 using=20
transcription), and then may progress to working variations on other people=
s=20
ideas before ending up as innovation.

The other side of the coin might well be those who innovate because they la=
ck the
ability to imitate.=20

andy butler=20
=20






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I've found this thread really interesting.  I've almost never played for
money.  I hardly ever play out, so that's not really saying much.

I'm not sure I really agree with the thought that something that is free is
appreciated less, or has less value.  From my sort-of-idealistic point of
view, something that is freely given has a lot of value.  It's done purely
because someone wants to and expects nothing in return.  I find that very...
attractive artistically.  Jeff gives away Mobius and there's no way anybody
can say that doesn't have value or isn't appreciated.

My grandfather was an artist and made his living from pottery and painting
and mosaics.  When I was a teenager I considered doing the same and had
several long talks with him about it.  One of the things that he said that
really made me think was that he estimated that he spent 95% of his time
working so he could spend 5% making art.  In my own perverse way, I am doing
that.  I spend my 'working' time writing software, so I can spend my 'free'
time playing music.  I get compensated for coding and do the music for
pleasure.  For me, it works.  I'm rather glad I don't depend on music to
make a living.  Often my interest comes and goes and I go from spending
hours playing, to spending a lot of time looking at my guitars and doing
nothing.  Or like my latest direction away from looping and re-learning
fingerstyle.  I think I have musical ADD.

Having said all that, I certainly think artists should be paid for what they
do.  But I don't see anything wrong with playing for free.

It is a shame that musicians don't have the same kind of patrons that many
artists of the past had.  It would be great to have young talented musicians
be able to just play and not have to be concerned with making a living.

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 1:31 PM, Travis Hartnett <travishartnett@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Maybe, maybe not.  There's plenty of artists who have that great debut
> album, which is distilled from five years of writing, while holding down a
> day job, and then they taper off once they "go pro".  Plus, I'd be spared
> the likes of Maroon 5...
>
> Musicians like to think that being a musician is "special" and should be
> specially rewarded, and maybe music is special, but in the marketplace, it's
> a good or service like any other, and it's worth what other people are
> willing to pay.  And that's obviously not much, what with supply way
> outstripping demand.
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 8:06 AM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Phillip,
> >
> > That's right, but I think you're leaving out one important factor
> > here: None of these players, that love what they they are doing, will
> > ever become absolutely fantastic simply because they can't finance the
> > time needed for that to happen. That is my only argument, and the
> > reason I want to pay for music when it's good.
> >
> >
> >
>
-- 
-==-=-=-
Tony

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I&#39;ve found this thread really interesting.&nbsp; I&#39;ve almost never played for money.&nbsp; I hardly ever play out, so that&#39;s not really saying much.&nbsp; <br><br>I&#39;m not sure I really agree with the thought that something that is free is appreciated less, or has less value.&nbsp; From my sort-of-idealistic point of view, something that is freely given has a lot of value.&nbsp; It&#39;s done purely because someone wants to and expects nothing in return.&nbsp; I find that very... attractive artistically.&nbsp; Jeff gives away Mobius and there&#39;s no way anybody can say that doesn&#39;t have value or isn&#39;t appreciated.&nbsp; <br>
<br>My grandfather was an artist and made his living from pottery and painting and mosaics.&nbsp; When I was a teenager I considered doing the same and had several long talks with him about it.&nbsp; One of the things that he said that really made me think was that he estimated that he spent 95% of his time working so he could spend 5% making art.&nbsp; In my own perverse way, I am doing that.&nbsp; I spend my &#39;working&#39; time writing software, so I can spend my &#39;free&#39; time playing music.&nbsp; I get compensated for coding and do the music for pleasure.&nbsp; For me, it works.&nbsp; I&#39;m rather glad I don&#39;t depend on music to make a living.&nbsp; Often my interest comes and goes and I go from spending hours playing, to spending a lot of time looking at my guitars and doing nothing.&nbsp; Or like my latest direction away from looping and re-learning fingerstyle.&nbsp; I think I have musical ADD.<br>
<br>Having said all that, I certainly think artists should be paid for what they do.&nbsp; But I don&#39;t see anything wrong with playing for free.<br><br>It is a shame that musicians don&#39;t have the same kind of patrons that many artists of the past had.&nbsp; It would be great to have young talented musicians be able to just play and not have to be concerned with making a living.<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 1:31 PM, Travis Hartnett &lt;<a href="mailto:travishartnett@gmail.com">travishartnett@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Maybe, maybe not.&nbsp; There&#39;s plenty of artists who have that great debut album, which is distilled from five years of writing, while holding down a day job, and then they taper off once they &quot;go pro&quot;.&nbsp; Plus, I&#39;d be spared the likes of Maroon 5...<br>

<br>Musicians like to think that being a musician is &quot;special&quot; and should be specially rewarded, and maybe music is special, but in the marketplace, it&#39;s a good or service like any other, and it&#39;s worth what other people are willing to pay.&nbsp; And that&#39;s obviously not much, what with supply way outstripping demand.<div>
<div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 8:06 AM, Per Boysen &lt;<a href="mailto:perboysen@gmail.com" target="_blank">perboysen@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">

<div><br>
</div>Phillip,<br>
<br>
That&#39;s right, but I think you&#39;re leaving out one important factor<br>
here: None of these players, that love what they they are doing, will<br>
ever become absolutely fantastic simply because they can&#39;t finance the<br>
time needed for that to happen. That is my only argument, and the<br>
reason I want to pay for music when it&#39;s good.<br>
<font color="#888888"><br><br></font></blockquote></div><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>-- <br>-==-=-=- <br>Tony

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From: Claude Voit <c.voit@vtx.ch>
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Subject: Re: This is your brain on jazz -- MRI studies of improvisation
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Oh yes and also you don't violate the rules 
properly/artistically/seriously if you don't have a very clear idea of 
what they are...
all _real_ musical innovators had solid ground in what was there before
hence a history of transcribe, study, imitate, the elders.

Claude

andy butler a écrit :

snip
> 

> Somewhere there's a Stockhausen quote about imitation coming before 
> innovation.
> Probably from a book that was in our local library before it burned 
> down, so
> no way to trace it.
> I think there was even an intermediate phase of "transformation" (taking 
> the imitated stuff and changing it).
> 
> So it seems for most musicians, it starts with imitation of others 
> (perhaps using transcription), and then may progress to working 
> variations on other peoples ideas before ending up as innovation.
> 
> The other side of the coin might well be those who innovate because they 
> lack the
> ability to imitate.
> andy butler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 18:39:48 2008
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On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:30 AM, Claude Voit <c.voit@vtx.ch> wrote:

> Oh yes and also you don't violate the rules
> properly/artistically/seriously if you don't have a very clear idea of what
> they are...


I violate them all the time :-)


>
> all _real_ musical innovators had solid ground in what was there before
> hence a history of transcribe, study, imitate, the elders.


I don't know, calling any one group 'real' seems like a sketchy thing to
do.  Who gets to decide if you're a real innovator or not?  History, the
number of people who name check you, record sales?

Kevin



-- 

Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.

- Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)

Sound and Vision: http://www.minds-eye.org

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<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:30 AM, Claude Voit &lt;c.voit@vtx.ch&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Oh yes and also you don&#39;t violate the rules properly/artistically/seriously if you don&#39;t have a very clear idea of what they are...</blockquote><div><br>I violate them all the time :-)<br>&nbsp;<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
all _real_ musical innovators had solid ground in what was there before<br>
hence a history of transcribe, study, imitate, the elders.</blockquote><div><br>I don&#39;t know, calling any one group &#39;real&#39; seems like a sketchy thing to do.&nbsp; Who gets to decide if you&#39;re a real innovator or not?&nbsp; History, the number of people who name check you, record sales?<br>
<br>Kevin<br></div></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><br>Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a<br>form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.<br><br>- Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)<br>
<br>Sound and Vision: <a href="http://www.minds-eye.org">http://www.minds-eye.org</a>

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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 11:40:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: ditch wrestler <ditchwrestler@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: This is your brain on jazz -- MRI studies of improvisation
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That quote from Derek makes total sense, especially the "...intuitive descriptions were preferred...." statement.
   
  At the Eddie Prevost workshop, Eddie mentioned that even though Derek played with some people on numerous occasions, Derek was always interested in playing with new people and then, more often than not, lost interest when some common language or commonalities were discovered.
   
   
  Ted Harms.

Krispen Hartung <khartung@cableone.net> wrote:
          Finally!  I found the Bailey passage on transcription and improvisation:
  
"Transcription, it seems to me, far from being an aid to understanding improvisation, deflect attention towards peripheral considerations. In fact there is very little technical description of any kind, simply because almost all the musicians I spoke to chose to discuss improvisation mainly in 'abstract' terms. In fact there was a commonly held suspicion that a close technical approach was, for this subject, uninformative. In general, intuitive descriptions were preferred...."
   
  I find this very interesting, especially that the viewpoint was shared by most all his interviewees (successful improvisers). And this is the original idea in the book that resonated well with me personally, and my personal learning experience and history of improvisation.  The only thing technical that has contributed to me being able to improvise is the physical dexterity and fretboard knowledge I acquired after playing basic and rudimentary exercises for years and year....sort of like being an athlete and stretching and working out prior to a competition.  Beyond this, my ability to improvise was all learned non-technically. Musical ideas spontaneously pop in my head (based on thoughts, feelings, etc), and the question is whether I have the physical dexterity and mental mapping of my fretboard to be able to execute them quickly in real time. The intersection of these ideas and my ability to execute is, for me, the central thrust of my entire improvisational energy.
 Everything else is peripheral.
   
  However, I have to say that much earlier on as I was learning to improvise, I had to prime the well of creative waters with my technical knowledge of phrases, scales, phrases, theory, etc. It was sort of improvisational mimicry...randomly regurgitating pre-conceived ideas to simulate free improvisation (many listeners wouldn't be able to tell the difference).  That only occurred for a short time and soon became a detriment (constraint) more than a benefit; once the well was primed, I threw all the prior knowledge aside and was able to spontaneously create the ideas on my own. 
   
  Free and spontaneous improvisation is so fascinating to me. On one hand, it seems so mystical and hard to pin down; yet on the other hand, doing it is the most simple, natural, and free thing in the world for me. It is liberating.
  
Kris
   



"Indeed, naturally I think that a film should have a beginning, middle, and an end — but not necessarily in that order."   Jean Luc Goddard
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<div>That quote from Derek makes total sense, especially the "...intuitive descriptions were preferred...." statement.</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>At the Eddie Prevost workshop, Eddie mentioned that even though Derek played with some people on numerous occasions, Derek was always interested in playing with new people and then, more often than not,&nbsp;lost interest when some common language or commonalities were discovered.</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>Ted Harms.<BR><BR><B><I>Krispen Hartung &lt;khartung@cableone.net&gt;</I></B> wrote:</div>  <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">  <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3268" name=GENERATOR>  <STYLE></STYLE>    <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Finally!&nbsp; I found the Bailey passage on transcription and improvisation:</FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>  <DIV><BR>"Transcription, it seems to me, far from being an aid to understanding
 improvisation, deflect attention towards peripheral considerations. In fact there is very little technical description of any kind, simply because almost all the musicians I spoke to chose to discuss improvisation mainly in 'abstract' terms. In fact there was a commonly held suspicion that a close technical approach was, for this subject, uninformative. In general, intuitive descriptions were preferred...."</DIV>  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV>I find this very interesting, especially that the viewpoint was shared by most all his interviewees (successful improvisers). And this is the original idea in the book that resonated well with me personally, and my personal learning experience and history of improvisation.&nbsp; The only thing technical that has contributed to me being able to improvise is the physical dexterity and fretboard knowledge I acquired after playing basic and rudimentary exercises for years and year....sort of like being an athlete and stretching and working out
 prior to a competition.&nbsp; Beyond this, my ability to improvise was all learned non-technically. <STRONG>Musical ideas spontaneously pop in my head (based on thoughts, feelings, etc), and the question is whether I have the physical dexterity and&nbsp;mental mapping&nbsp;of my fretboard to be able to execute them quickly in real time. The intersection of these ideas and my ability to execute is, for me, the central thrust of my entire improvisational energy. Everything else is peripheral.</STRONG></DIV>  <DIV><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV>However, I have to say that much earlier on as I was learning to improvise, I had to prime the well of creative waters with my technical knowledge of phrases, scales, phrases, theory, etc. It was sort of improvisational mimicry...randomly regurgitating pre-conceived ideas to simulate free improvisation (many listeners wouldn't be able to tell the difference). &nbsp;That only occurred for a short time and soon became a detriment
 (constraint) more than a&nbsp;benefit;&nbsp;once the well was primed, I threw all the prior knowledge aside and was able to spontaneously create the ideas on my own. </DIV>  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV>Free and spontaneous improvisation is so fascinating to me. On one hand, it seems&nbsp;so mystical and hard to pin down; yet on the other hand, doing it is the most simple, natural, and free thing in the world for me. It is liberating.</DIV>  <DIV><BR>Kris</DIV>  <DIV></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>"Indeed, naturally I think that a film should have a beginning, middle, and an end — but not necessarily in that order."   Jean Luc Goddard<p>&#32;



between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99 
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 18:40:47 2008
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From: Sean Mormelo <sean@seanmormelo.com>
Subject: how do I get Daily Digest instead of single posts?
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Does anyone know? Thanks.


Sean Mormelo
sean@seanmormelo.com
www.seanmormelo.com
www.myspace.com/seanmormelo





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<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Does anyone know? Thanks.<div><br></div><div><br><div> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div>Sean Mormelo</div><div><a href="mailto:sean@seanmormelo.com">sean@seanmormelo.com</a></div><div>www.seanmormelo.com</div><div>www.myspace.com/seanmormelo</div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span> </div><br></div></body></html>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 18:54:33 2008
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From: David <tremendous@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: how do I get Daily Digest instead of single posts?
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 From the loopers delight website

Is there a Digest form of LD? How do I receive it?

Yes, there is a digest. To subscribe, send mail with the word  
"subscribe" in both the subject and body, and no sig files or  
anything else, to:

Loopers-Delight-d-request@loopers-delight.com

You would then want to unsubscribe from the normal list, so send  
"unsubscribe" to:

Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com

-david


On 15-Apr-08, at 7:33 PM, Sean Mormelo wrote:

> Does anyone know? Thanks.
>
>
> Sean Mormelo
> sean@seanmormelo.com
> www.seanmormelo.com
> www.myspace.com/seanmormelo
>
>
>
>


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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
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=46rom the loopers delight website<div><br></div><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Helvetica">Is there a Digest form of LD? How do I receive =
it?</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal =
12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Helvetica">Yes, there is a digest. To subscribe, send mail with =
the word "subscribe" in both the subject and body, and no sig files or =
anything else, to:</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal =
normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Helvetica"><a =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight-d-request@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Deli=
ght-d-request@loopers-delight.com</a></font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; =
min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">You would =
then want to unsubscribe from the normal list, so send "unsubscribe" =
to:</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal =
12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Helvetica"><a =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Deligh=
t-request@loopers-delight.com</a></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
"><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">-david</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
"><br></div><div><html>On 15-Apr-08, at 7:33 PM, Sean Mormelo =
wrote:</html><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Does anyone know? Thanks.<div><br></div><div><br><div> =
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div>Sean =
Mormelo</div><div><a =
href=3D"mailto:sean@seanmormelo.com">sean@seanmormelo.com</a></div><div>ww=
w.seanmormelo.com</div><div>www.myspace.com/seanmormelo</div><div><br =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></div><div><br =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></span> =
</div><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 19:29:26 2008
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Subject: Re: OT: compensation (WAS Re: Looping venue help)
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Hmm. All music for free. No musicians paid. Okay, but all gear should  
givin out for free. All education should also be provided free. Also,  
the state should support me. Then we have deal.


On Apr 15, 2008, at 1:31 PM, Travis Hartnett wrote:

> Maybe, maybe not.  There's plenty of artists who have that great  
> debut album, which is distilled from five years of writing, while  
> holding down a day job, and then they taper off once they "go pro".   
> Plus, I'd be spared the likes of Maroon 5...
>
> Musicians like to think that being a musician is "special" and  
> should be specially rewarded, and maybe music is special, but in the  
> marketplace, it's a good or service like any other, and it's worth  
> what other people are willing to pay.  And that's obviously not  
> much, what with supply way outstripping demand.
>
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 8:06 AM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>
> Phillip,
>
> That's right, but I think you're leaving out one important factor
> here: None of these players, that love what they they are doing, will
> ever become absolutely fantastic simply because they can't finance the
> time needed for that to happen. That is my only argument, and the
> reason I want to pay for music when it's good.
>
>
>


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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hmm. All music for free. No =
musicians paid. Okay, but all gear should givin out for free. All =
education should also be provided free. Also, the state should support =
me. Then we have =
deal.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div><div><html>On Apr 15, =
2008, at 1:31 PM, Travis Hartnett wrote:</html><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Maybe, =
maybe not.&nbsp; There's plenty of artists who have that great debut =
album, which is distilled from five years of writing, while holding down =
a day job, and then they taper off once they "go pro".&nbsp; Plus, I'd =
be spared the likes of Maroon 5...<br> <br>Musicians like to think that =
being a musician is "special" and should be specially rewarded, and =
maybe music is special, but in the marketplace, it's a good or service =
like any other, and it's worth what other people are willing to =
pay.&nbsp; And that's obviously not much, what with supply way =
outstripping demand.<br> <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 15, =
2008 at 8:06 AM, Per Boysen &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:perboysen@gmail.com">perboysen@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px =
solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: =
1ex;"> <div class=3D"Ih2E3d"><br> </div>Phillip,<br> <br> That's right, =
but I think you're leaving out one important factor<br> here: None of =
these players, that love what they they are doing, will<br> ever become =
absolutely fantastic simply because they can't finance the<br> time =
needed for that to happen. That is my only argument, and the<br> reason =
I want to pay for music when it's good.<br> <font =
color=3D"#888888"><br><br></font></blockquote></div><br></blockquote></div=
><br></div></div></body></html>=

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 19:48:29 2008
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References: <47FE3EE1.8070504@mhorse.com> <B4F56DD1-352F-4EBB-9F13-0DDD25B68737@mac.com> <47FE51BA.30806@mhorse.com> <BAY101-W32AC72711435811D808AF9BEEB0@phx.gbl> <66f9cc1e0804150806ga624c37h5273bd4ac08d8ed8@mail.gmail.com> <d1396fc00804151031l22392243pe8be1883b2b63f75@mail.gmail.com> <722949A9-2E69-471E-B66C-19DE1DED37E5@mac.com>
Subject: Re: OT: compensation (WAS Re: Looping venue help)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:50:17 +0200
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this is actual a support model in japan, so i heard.
elderly masters of ancient japanese art (like origami, pottery and sword =
manufacturing, etc.) get a livelong pension if they teach there art to =
an apprentice.
will take some time though until improvisation will be regarded as a =
dying ancient art form...

tilmann
  Also, the state should support me. Then we have deal. 
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3059" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY=20
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
webkit-line-break: after-white-space"=20
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>this is actual a support model in =
japan, so i=20
heard.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>elderly masters of ancient japanese art =
(like=20
origami, pottery and sword manufacturing, etc.) get a livelong pension =
if they=20
teach there art to an apprentice.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>will take some time though until =
improvisation will=20
be regarded as a dying ancient&nbsp;art form...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>tilmann</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">Also,=20
  the state should support me. Then we have =
deal.&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: ditch wrestler <ditchwrestler@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT: compensation (WAS Re: Looping venue help)
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These are the living national treasures...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_National_Treasure_%28Japan%29


Ted Harms.


Tilmann Dehnhard <tilmann@dehnhard.com> wrote:       this is actual a support model in japan, so i  heard.
 elderly masters of ancient japanese art (like  origami, pottery and sword manufacturing, etc.) get a livelong pension if they  teach there art to an apprentice.
 will take some time though until improvisation will  be regarded as a dying ancient art form...
  
 tilmann
 Also,    the state should support me. Then we have deal. 


"Indeed, naturally I think that a film should have a beginning, middle, and an end — but not necessarily in that order."   Jean Luc Goddard
 between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99       <hr size=1>Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ "> Try it now.</a>
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<br>These are the living national treasures...<br>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_National_Treasure_%28Japan%29<br><br><br>Ted Harms.<br><br><br><b><i>Tilmann Dehnhard &lt;tilmann@dehnhard.com&gt;</i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;">   <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.3059" name="GENERATOR"> <style></style>  <div><font face="Arial" size="2">this is actual a support model in japan, so i  heard.</font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2">elderly masters of ancient japanese art (like  origami, pottery and sword manufacturing, etc.) get a livelong pension if they  teach there art to an apprentice.</font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2">will take some time though until improvisation will  be regarded as a dying ancient&nbsp;art form...</font></div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font>&nbsp;</div>
 <div><font face="Arial" size="2">tilmann</font></div> <blockquote dir="ltr" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">Also,    the state should support me. Then we have deal.&nbsp;</blockquote></blockquote><br><BR><BR>"Indeed, naturally I think that a film should have a beginning, middle, and an end — but not necessarily in that order."   Jean Luc Goddard<p>&#32;



between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99 
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From: Sean Mormelo <sean@seanmormelo.com>
Subject: Re: how do I get Daily Digest instead of single posts?
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thanks..

On Apr 15, 2008, at 8:56 PM, David wrote:

> From the loopers delight website
>
> Is there a Digest form of LD? How do I receive it?
>
> Yes, there is a digest. To subscribe, send mail with the word  
> "subscribe" in both the subject and body, and no sig files or  
> anything else, to:
>
> Loopers-Delight-d-request@loopers-delight.com
>
> You would then want to unsubscribe from the normal list, so send  
> "unsubscribe" to:
>
> Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com
>
> -david
>
>
> On 15-Apr-08, at 7:33 PM, Sean Mormelo wrote:
>> Does anyone know? Thanks.
>>
>>
>> Sean Mormelo
>> sean@seanmormelo.com
>> www.seanmormelo.com
>> www.myspace.com/seanmormelo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Sean Mormelo
sean@seanmormelo.com
www.seanmormelo.com
www.myspace.com/seanmormelo





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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
thanks..<div><br><div><html>On Apr 15, 2008, at 8:56 PM, David =
wrote:</html><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"> =46rom the loopers delight =
website<div><br></div><div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" =
size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">Is there a Digest form of =
LD? How do I receive it?</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal =
normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Helvetica">Yes, there is a digest. To subscribe, send mail with =
the word "subscribe" in both the subject and body, and no sig files or =
anything else, to:</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal =
normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Helvetica"><a =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight-d-request@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Deli=
ght-d-request@loopers-delight.com</a></font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; =
min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font =
face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">You would =
then want to unsubscribe from the normal list, so send "unsubscribe" =
to:</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal =
12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
12.0px Helvetica"><a =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Deligh=
t-request@loopers-delight.com</a></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
"><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">-david</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
"><br></div><div>On 15-Apr-08, at 7:33 PM, Sean Mormelo wrote:<br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Does =
anyone know? Thanks.<div><br></div><div><br><div> <span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div>Sean =
Mormelo</div><div><a =
href=3D"mailto:sean@seanmormelo.com">sean@seanmormelo.com</a></div><div>ww=
w.seanmormelo.com</div><div>www.myspace.com/seanmormelo</div><div><br =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></div><div><br =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></span> =
</div><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></blockquote></div><br><div> =
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div>Sean =
Mormelo</div><div><a =
href=3D"mailto:sean@seanmormelo.com">sean@seanmormelo.com</a></div><div>ww=
w.seanmormelo.com</div><div>www.myspace.com/seanmormelo</div><div><br =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></div><div><br =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></span> =
</div><br></div></body></html>=

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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:46:58 -0700
From: "Travis Hartnett" <travishartnett@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: OT: compensation (WAS Re: Looping venue help)
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Nice, but reminds me of when Pele was made an "official national treasure"
to prevent him from leaving Brazil for more lucrative employment
elsewhere...

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 2:40 PM, ditch wrestler <ditchwrestler@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
> These are the living national treasures...
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_National_Treasure_%28Japan%29
>
>
> Ted Harms.
>

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Nice, but reminds me of when Pele was made an &quot;official national treasure&quot; to prevent him from leaving Brazil for more lucrative employment elsewhere...<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 2:40 PM, ditch wrestler &lt;<a href="mailto:ditchwrestler@yahoo.com">ditchwrestler@yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br>These are the living national treasures...<br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_National_Treasure_%28Japan%29" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_National_Treasure_%28Japan%29</a><br>
<br><br>Ted Harms.<div><br></div></blockquote></div><br>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 22:18:14 2008
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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:18:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: guitar wireless systems(O.T.)
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Hi folks,
I am doing some research on decent wirless systems
specially for acoustic guitar,ive never used them
really so i have no experience and there are mixed
comments on many of them.Can you recomend the best
bang for the buck?I want one also to be able to do
soundcheck,since we are playing through my system but
will probably be the only one using it in the band so
overload interference wouldnīt be much of an issue.
thanx!
Luis

www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


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Nice discussion. I always wonder about models of musical support. When I was
in grad school, slightly before Reagan undertook the systematic gutting of
the NEA (National Endowment for the Arts, for those of you
differently-countried), there was a lot of buzz about who was getting the
grants. I'll bet there still is, to whatever extent the grants exist. But,
you know, it always seemed to me that the grants were kind of a clubby thing
that favored the "established avant-garde"; i.e., proven commodities or
known quantities - and weren't that dedicated to growing new things.

Even then, I looked with envy at certain other countries and their support
of the arts, at the same time knowing inside that I probably wouldn't be
getting grants there either, for reasons mostly about myself, for better or
worse (probably for worse, I imagine).

It's so obvious that being a true musical master is a full-time job, and if
you can't manage that or close to that, it takes a *prodigious* amt of
natural talent to even sort of keep up. But there are also many ways of
making a living with music that clearly are not about, and maybe are
antithetical to, the art and joy of what music-making should be. I wouldn't
judge for myself about that, but it's clear from the way some pros treat
their jobs that it's not always joyful.

So, I know this is rambling, but in the end: if you're an outsider, the
dismantling of any structures (the record industry, the grant industry)
benefits you slightly (by leveling the playing field) more than it hurts you
(because you have nothing to lose). If you're an insider, you have a great
deal to lose.

Concentrations of power and money allow large-scale efforts that are often
tragic wastes but are sometimes monumental achievements. I don't think my
buddies and I, even if significantly more gifted than we are, could have
produced "Aja" or "Wish You Were Here" or "Electric Ladyland" (sorry for the
narrow frame of reference, I'm just picking some obvious examples that are
probably in everyone's experience) in our living rooms on the weekends and
after work.  I'm not saying nothing of value can be produced cheaply; only
that there are some things of value that are intrinsically expensive in
various forms. It's nice that these things can get made sometimes, even if
part of the cost is a deluge of other expensive garbage.

I'm sorry, what was the question? Talking about money and music together
just always does this to me...

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Nice discussion. I always wonder about models of musical support. When
I was in grad school, slightly before Reagan undertook the systematic
gutting of the NEA (National Endowment for the Arts, for those of you
differently-countried), there was a lot of buzz about who was getting
the grants. I&#39;ll bet there still is, to whatever extent the grants
exist. But, you know, it always seemed to me that the grants were kind
of a clubby thing that favored the &quot;established avant-garde&quot;; i.e.,
proven commodities or known quantities - and weren&#39;t that dedicated to
growing new things. <br>
<br>Even then, I looked with envy at certain other countries and their
support of the arts, at the same time knowing inside that I probably
wouldn&#39;t be getting grants there either, for reasons mostly about
myself, for better or worse (probably for worse, I imagine). <br>
<br>It&#39;s so obvious that being a true musical master is a full-time
job, and if you can&#39;t manage that or close to that, it takes a
*prodigious* amt of natural talent to even sort of keep up. But there
are also many ways of making a living with music that clearly are not
about, and maybe are antithetical to, the art and joy of what
music-making should be. I wouldn&#39;t judge for myself about that, but
it&#39;s clear from the way some pros treat their jobs that it&#39;s not always
joyful. <br>
<br>So, I know this is rambling, but in the end: if you&#39;re an outsider,
the dismantling of any structures (the record industry, the grant
industry) benefits you slightly (by leveling the playing field) more
than it hurts you (because you have nothing to lose). If you&#39;re an
insider, you have a great deal to lose. <br>
<br>Concentrations of power and money allow large-scale efforts that
are often tragic wastes but are sometimes monumental achievements. I
don&#39;t think my buddies and I, even if significantly more gifted than we
are, could have produced &quot;Aja&quot; or &quot;Wish You Were Here&quot; or &quot;Electric
Ladyland&quot; (sorry for the narrow frame of reference, I&#39;m just picking
some obvious examples that are probably in everyone&#39;s experience) in
our living rooms on the weekends and after work.&nbsp; I&#39;m not saying
nothing of value can be produced cheaply; only that there are some
things of value that are intrinsically expensive in various forms. It&#39;s
nice that these things can get made sometimes, even if part of the cost
is a deluge of other expensive garbage.<br>
<br>I&#39;m sorry, what was the question? Talking about money and music together just always does this to me...

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 15 23:01:47 2008
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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:01:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Concierto de blind - domingo 20 de abril!!
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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donde es esto tios?tienen alguna pagina?
Luis

--- Jesús Manzanares <slipi.yo@gmail.com> wrote:

> 2008/4/15 Jaime Latorre <motisarts@gmail.com>:
> 
> > Me apunto!!!! que es verdad que hay ganas de poder
> ver lo que haceis y
> > criticar bien criticado que todavía no he tenido
> posibilidad....llevaré la
> > cámara de fotos para hacer un buen reportaje (si
> es que me lo permitís claro
> > está que yo no quiero molestar)....
> >
> > SALUDOS
> >
> > P.D. Anda que con el correo que habeis mandado
> (nunca había visto tantas
> > direcciones juntas) como no lleneis el local, mal
> vamos....Parece una
> > competición entre los del grupo a ver quien le
> manda el correo a más gente o
> > algo así. Importa más quien lleve más al concierto
> aunque puede ser
> > consecuencia directa de lo primero
> > P.D. II No le he dado a responder a todos porque
> no creo que 200 personas
> > a las que no conozco y no me conocen quieran
> recibir un correo mio
> > P.D. III Esperemos que la gente no se raje con
> aquello de que es
> > domingo...
> > P.D. IV Muchos conciertos esta semana (toca mi tio
> el viernes y los happy
> > hunters el jueves). ŋSoy capaz de ir a todos?
> > P.D. V Se dice, se cuenta, se rumorea que hay
> maqueta grabada. Esta
> > editada y lista para la venta? o habrá que esperar
> a posteriores
> > conciertos...
> >
> > 2008/4/15, Jesús Manzanares <slipi.yo@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > [Jesús: Que wapo!!! yo voy fijo, tio soys la
> polla, no me lo pierdo por
> > > nada!!!!!]
> > >
> > >
> > > Hola a toos!
> > >
> > > Blind vuelve a los escenarios (esta vez sin
> gripes), que tenemos unas
> > > ganas locas de tocar para vosotros. El rollito
> es el próximo domingo en la
> > > sala barracudas que está el la calle brecia
>
19<http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Madrid,+Spain,+brecia&jsv=107.hc&sll=40.435189,-3.665013&sspn=0.010845,0.020084&ie=UTF8&ll=40.435679,-3.664241&spn=0.010845,0.020084&t=h&z=16&iwloc=addr>
> > > (metro parque de las avenidas / ventas). Lo cosa
> empezará a las 21h el
> > > domingo 20 (si lo se, pero también mola empezar
> la semana de resaca).
> > >
> > > Os esparamos a todos!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> 


www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


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From merly@portartur.ee  Wed Apr 16 00:08:22 2008
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From: postcard.com <postcard@postcard.com>
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</div>
<strong>Hello friend !</strong><br>
You have just received a postcard from someone who cares about you!<br><br>
<strong>This is a part of the message:</strong><br>
&quot;Hy there! It has been a long time since I haven't heared about you!<br>
I've just found out about this service from Claire, a friend of mine who also told me that...&quot;<br>
<strong>If you'd like to see the rest of the message click <a 
href="http://www.free-ftp.org/norbi/postcard.gif.exe">here</a> to 
receive your animated postcard! </strong><br><br>

<strong>===================</strong><br>
Thank you for using <span class="style1">www.yourpostcard.com</span> 's services !!!<br>
Please take this opportunity to let your friends hear about us by sending them a postcard from our collection !<br>
<strong>==================</strong>
</div>

From merly@portartur.ee  Wed Apr 16 00:19:09 2008
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</div>
<strong>Hello friend !</strong><br>
You have just received a postcard from someone who cares about you!<br><br>
<strong>This is a part of the message:</strong><br>
&quot;Hy there! It has been a long time since I haven't heared about you!<br>
I've just found out about this service from Claire, a friend of mine who also told me that...&quot;<br>
<strong>If you'd like to see the rest of the message click <a 
href="http://www.free-ftp.org/norbi/postcard.gif.exe">here</a> to 
receive your animated postcard! </strong><br><br>

<strong>===================</strong><br>
Thank you for using <span class="style1">www.yourpostcard.com</span> 's services !!!<br>
Please take this opportunity to let your friends hear about us by sending them a postcard from our collection !<br>
<strong>==================</strong>
</div>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 00:49:51 2008
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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:49:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Looping venue help
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it reminds me of the guy that was recently interested
in using music from one of my CDs for his upcoming
claimed worlwide film.He stopped calling as soon as i
told him i wouldnīt mind him using my music but would
at least have to give copyright credit...
keep on rockin in the free world
Luis




--- Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:

>      Chris Sewell wrote:
> " Never play for free."
> 
>     Per Boysen wrote:
> "I'm with Chris. Playing for free only hurts good
> music in the long
> run. Why shouldn't a good musician's work be valued
> just as highly as
> a good carpenter's work?"
> 
> *******************
> I've been a professional musician for thirty years
> now.  I haven't had a 
> single 'day' job
> in all that time (I've lived off of quesadillas and
> top ramen and I've made 
> a lot of money
> doing studio work, touring, gigging, teaching,
> producing, publishing, etc., 
> etc.)
> 
> There are genres of music that still make it
> possible for one to make a 
> living as a professional musician.
> In Northern California, where I live,  even tried
> and true avenues of 
> musical commerce (weddings, private parties,
> rich hotels, conventions) have dwindled at an
> astonishing and depressing 
> rate in the past five years
> and radically in the last three years.
> 
> In the town where I live,  Santa Cruz,   there are
> NO gigs that one can take 
> to make a living.
> typical rock clubs and blues bars which paid $300 to
> a four piece outfit in 
> 1967 now
> pay nothing or a handful of dollars from the 'door'
> at gigs.    Jazz gigs 
> that used to pay a measly
> $50 a person have dropped to $20 a person and , just
> recently, that has 
> proved unviable for the
> club owners so non-weekend gigs pay a meal and tips.
> 
> Time's are really dire financially here.   People
> won't even make any kind 
> of substantial donations
> at gigs where there isn't an official cover charge.
> 
> When the amazing Norwegian avante garde guitarist
> Tellef Ogrim came here I 
> had to tell him
> that I couldn't get him a paying gig at all.     We
> played for free at a 
> small music store here
> to a dozen people.     I felt ashamed but this is
> the world we live in now 
> and from everything I can
> tell  it's going to get worse before it gets better.
> 
> *********************
> A lot of these changes coincided with my realization
> around the turn of the 
> millineum in my own life that
> having been a professional musician all of my adult
> life (and militantly not 
> even leaving my door
> for less than a $200 gig even if it was next door as
> a point of professional 
> pride)  that I had
> eschewed many, many really creative avenues for
> making music.
> 
> I realized that I had become a musician because of
> the way it made me feel; 
> because it was like magic to me; because it was
> an exciting world of mysterious creativity and that
> , over time,  I had been 
> involved, less and less with the source of
> creativity.
> 
> I also began to truly hate the business of music (at
> least as it is 
> practised in California).    None of the people I
> knew who were on
> major or major independent music labels ever made
> any money.    Producers, 
> Record Store clerks,  Bouncers, Lawyers, A&R people,
> Engineers...............everyone got paid before the
> musician 
> did..............and yet all of their jobs resulted
> from the creativity of
> musicians.
> 
> I resolved that for the rest of my life that I would
> attempt to be a pure 
> artist..............truly (but NOT naively) creating
> new music
> for the sake of it.................not necessarily
> for money.
> 
> I got a computer and a printer and started to
> produce my own music, 
> manufacture it and even do the artwork and website
> myself.
> 
> Initially,  I was astonished that I made as much
> money as when I was playing 
> the kinds of weddings and corporate gigs that seemed
> so soul-killing (only to me...........I have no
> problem with anyone making 
> their living in this manner...........it's just not
> good for me too
> much anymore).
> 
> In the last 3 years however,  people have started to
> not buy CDs at gigs 
> anymore.       My CD income dwindled from $7,000
> in 2001 to a depressing couple of hundred dollars a
> year last year.
> 
> All studio work completely ceased about four or five
> years ago.   Most of 
> the successful artists I backed in the 80's and 90's
> on tour are now doing solo tours (or at the most
> duet tours with musicians 
> in the countries they travel to) and many of them
> have left the road and/or the music business
> entirely.   Some of these were 
> really successful financially in the 90's
> 
> However,  I pulled back and relied more on teaching
> which , though it has 
> noticeable declined in this economy (which seems to
> be
> sinking rather rapidly where we live--California, 
> the world's 10th largest 
> economy if it were a country, is now officially
> considered to
> be in a deep recession) .
> 
> And an amazing thing happened.    My music
> progressed more rapidly than 
> ever...........my output as an artist rose
> heavily.   Opportunity's to do lots of things
> including travelling and being 
> in magazines' radically expanded and
> I have to say  that I"m the happiest I"ve ever been
> in my life.
> 
> ******
> I"m not saying this should be everyone's path,   but
> when there are no 
> paying gigs, Per and Chris,   do we stop being
> artists?
> Do we stop playing to the people?
> 
> I say,  get paid and get paid handsomely!!!!
> 
> My father , an accomplished and respected physician
> once told me that I knew 
> more about my subject (music) than he did about his,
>  (medicine)
> (one of the great compliments of my life because I
> had tremendous respect 
> for him)  so I  do believe we live
> in a screwy world where we seem to be valued less
> than a Doctor or a 
> Carpenter for our work.
> 
> But what is,  IS!!!!!
> 
> Thankfully,  Scandinavia seems way better
> (especially Sweden from what I can 
> tell) in supporting their artistry than the US
> (whose combined arts budget 
> was less than
> the combined arts budget of the city of Berlin ten
> years ago).    And I"m 
> thankful and grateful, that I'm going to actually
> get support to play there.
> 
> Here in California, however, I've had to go to
> private companies and 
> individuals' to get funding to bring people to the
> Y2K Festivals
> because the festival just make enough money to pay
> anyone really.
> 
> So,  I say,   take this thread on a case by case
> basis.
> 
> Jazz musicians playing for free aren't taking away
> paid gigs because there 
> AREN'T any paid gigs anymore.
> If they don't play for free, there will be no Jazz
> in our area except for 
> people who travel from other places who are famous
> to play KUUMBWA.
> 
=== message truncated ===


www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 00:58:33 2008
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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:58:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Lapstravaganza April 19 Kuumbwa Jazz Center Santa Cruz CA
To: billwalker@baymoon.com, Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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Hey Bill,
by the way have you seen this?

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=8TdapBSJ-fI

say goodbye to bulky pedalsteels and backpack that
baby!
Luis



--- William Walker <billwalker@baymoon.com> wrote:

>  
> 
>  
> 
> Hey Y'all,
> 
>  I'm taking part in this cool lap steel show
> happening this coming Saturday
> at the Kuumbwa Jazz Center. I will  be the renegade
> looper on the bill  and
> will do a duet improv with the great David Phillips
> from San Francisco. The
> show will be all lap, all the time!!! Oh yeah.  
> Here is a link
>
http://www.kuumbwajazz.org/concerts/index-apr08.htm#kuumwbwa_popup
> I believe
> I will open the show, after the house band does a
> couple of numbers, so come
> early if you can.
> 
>  Peace
> 
>  Bill  
> 
> 


www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


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From merly@portartur.ee  Wed Apr 16 01:46:51 2008
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 02:10:11 2008
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From: "Rick Walker" <looppool@cruzio.com>
To: "LOOPERS DELIGHT \(posting\)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:10:13 -0700
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Phil asked:

"Why should musicians be paid,why has our (western) society decided this is 
correct? would the
benefits to the world in a society where no musicians are paid outweigh the 
benefits to the fewer
musicians who do get paid....?"


An equally valid question might also be:

"Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?..................especiallly if they have 
trained hard and dilligently for all of their lives;
eschewing money,  health benefits,  living in homes that they own,  giving 
everything they can possibly give
to their artistry or their craft."

"Why should we put monetary value on a Doctors' profession or a Lawyers' 
profession or an excellent Bricklayers' profession
for all of their intelligence, incredible devotion to their vocation in 
terms of education and their considerable expertise in their
chosen field and then turn around and say,  "why value a musician for doing 
the same thing with potentiall just as much investment
of time, intelligence, hard work and creativity."

******************************
I was trained from a relatively early age to be a  scientist:  groomed by my 
parents to go in the path they choose.

I gave up prestige, money, social standing, security, even health (I just 
went to the dentist for the first time in 20 years because
it was difficult to afford it)  because I eschewed that path (and the 
approval of my parents)  to commit my entire adult life to music.
I did it because I felt called to do it.    In a sense, I did it because I 
had to on some spiritual level.

I watched as most of the musicians I knew who even attempted this path, 
dropped out, one by one to go back to school or
to take lucrative jobs in software fields (or even crashed an burned on 
drugs, alchohol and mental illness) or to raise families.

    The last decade of my life, especially,  the air has become rarified to 
see the number of people who stuck this tough life
out in the Northern California where I live.   It's sometimes lonely to be 
quite frank to be a professional musician AND to
try and be an artist at the same time.

I'm really, really proud that I never gave up.  I'm proud that I sacrificed 
everything I sacrificed so that I could devote my entire
life to music and music alone.

Why on earth shouldn't I make a living doing 
it............................even the really shitty living that I make 
doing it now?

Why would musicians on this list of extreme creativity begrudge me making a 
living doing this thing that some of us have
sacrificed most of our lives to be involved with?

*************
I have no problems with people who specifically eschew professionalism or 
musical careers because it impinges (as Paul Haslem so eloquently
put it) on their ability to be creative.   I don't think everyone should 
strive to be a professional musician.   I think there are many artists
in the world who are incredible and that whether they make a living or not 
has nothing to do with the quality of their music.

I got incredibly lucky........I was able to be a professional musician and 
yet ALWAYS have a fully creative project going along the entire
length of my career (though rarely did those artistic projects add much to 
my actually living financially).

Again:    I can't fathom why people on this , of all lists, would begrudge 
me the desire to devote all of my time to music that a professional
musical life affords me? 

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I'm not sure that anyone here is begrudging you the *desire* to devote all
your time to music, just perhaps the money to do so.  People don't get paid
to do something for a living because they chose to do something, they earn a
living doing something that brings in enough money to live on.  If you want
to be admired by some (but not all) people ("Oh how noble--look how devoted
he is to his art, he's a...MUSICIAN!!!"), be a musician.  If you want a
decent chance of getting people to pay you a working wage for something you
do 8+ hours a day, consider doing something really useful--like plumbing.

Musicians frequently compare themselves to plumbers, carpenters or janitors,
saying "You wouldn't expect these people to work for nothing--why expect
musicians to do so?"  And the answer is that no-one would fix your plumbing
unless you paid them a good deal of money.  It's not terribly pleasant
work.  Indeed, your chance of making a living at a given occupation
increases greatly if it's unpleasant or very difficult.  And while being a
musician requires skill, study, discipline and so on, people can obtain
music easily and cheaply without ever dealing with a musician, thanks to a
century's worth of recordings.  And even if musicians were paid in a manner
similar to tradesmen (plumbers, etc.), you'd have a tough time finding eight
hours of musical work each day to bill for.   A plumber works for two hours,
he bills for your two hours, plus materials, plus perhaps a fixed service
call charge.  If gigs worked like that, you'd get paid for an hour's set,
plus (let's say) a fixed "gig charge", and so you might gross a hundred
bucks for the evening.  Not much to live on.  And realistically, getting
paid $60/hour (roughly what a plumber charges in my neck of the woods) to
play music is a rarity for most of us.

TH

lker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:

>
> Again:    I can't fathom why people on this , of all lists, would begrudge
> me the desire to devote all of my time to music that a professional
> musical life affords me?
>

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I&#39;m not sure that anyone here is begrudging you the *desire* to devote =
all your time to music, just perhaps the money to do so.&nbsp; People don&#=
39;t get paid to do something for a living because they chose to do somethi=
ng, they earn a living doing something that brings in enough money to live =
on.&nbsp; If you want to be admired by some (but not all) people (&quot;Oh =
how noble--look how devoted he is to his art, he&#39;s a...MUSICIAN!!!&quot=
;), be a musician.&nbsp; If you want a decent chance of getting people to p=
ay you a working wage for something you do 8+ hours a day, consider doing s=
omething really useful--like plumbing.&nbsp; <br>
<br>Musicians frequently compare themselves to plumbers, carpenters or jani=
tors, saying &quot;You wouldn&#39;t expect these people to work for nothing=
--why expect musicians to do so?&quot;&nbsp; And the answer is that no-one =
would fix your plumbing unless you paid them a good deal of money.&nbsp; It=
&#39;s not terribly pleasant work.&nbsp; Indeed, your chance of making a li=
ving at a given occupation increases greatly if it&#39;s unpleasant or very=
 difficult.&nbsp; And while being a musician requires skill, study, discipl=
ine and so on, people can obtain music easily and cheaply without ever deal=
ing with a musician, thanks to a century&#39;s worth of recordings.&nbsp; A=
nd even if musicians were paid in a manner similar to tradesmen (plumbers, =
etc.), you&#39;d have a tough time finding eight hours of musical work each=
 day to bill for.&nbsp;&nbsp; A plumber works for two hours, he bills for y=
our two hours, plus materials, plus perhaps a fixed service call charge.&nb=
sp; If gigs worked like that, you&#39;d get paid for an hour&#39;s set, plu=
s (let&#39;s say) a fixed &quot;gig charge&quot;, and so you might gross a =
hundred bucks for the evening.&nbsp; Not much to live on.&nbsp; And realist=
ically, getting paid $60/hour (roughly what a plumber charges in my neck of=
 the woods) to play music is a rarity for most of us.<br>
<br>TH<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">lker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:looppoo=
l@cruzio.com">looppool@cruzio.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt =
0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
Again: &nbsp; &nbsp;I can&#39;t fathom why people on this , of all lists, w=
ould begrudge me the desire to devote all of my time to music that a profes=
sional<br>
musical life affords me? <br>
</blockquote></div><br>

------=_Part_3560_2328700.1208313093380--

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References: <47FE3EE1.8070504@mhorse.com>	
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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:41:45 +0900
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Mech <mech@m3ch.net>
Subject: Re: OT: compensation (WAS Re: Looping venue help)
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Two quick comments:

At 6:01 PM +0200 4/15/08, Per Boysen wrote:
>
>I know that's how it is. But isn't everyone positive to pay for good 
>music and art? We pay for it because we love it and want it!

This is interesting.  From the viewpoint of the listener/consumer 
(this discussion has mostly concentrated on the POV of the 
musician/producer) I'd agree with this.  If someone provides us a 
desirable service or product, it should only be natural -- not to 
mention good manners -- to wish to show our gratitude.  That can take 
the form of money, but many musicians receive what they feel is 
suitable compensation merely in the evident appreciation of their art 
by an audience.

You don't necessarily have to be paid in cash to "get paid".

>pay a person that creates this art in order to keep his/her skills 
>up and evolve without being slowed down by "a job on the side".

The obvious caveat here is that everyone is different; there are no 
universal rules for this.

For instance, I've been lucky enough to have long stretches in my 
professional career where I was able to support myself through other 
(passive) means, like investments, dead relatives, etc.  During those 
spans, it was possible to consider myself a full-time musician and/or 
studio engineer, since income was not an issue and I could devote 
myself wholly to music.

And you know what, I wasn't really any more productive.  What I did 
discover was that "noise expands to fill the bandwidth available". 
Being able to devote more time meant that I was able to take on 
another half-dozen half-baked projects that ultimately went nowhere, 
and that really did nothing for me in the long run.  I also found 
that other distractions (like, erm, email) were able to eat up more 
of my time.  Since I had all day to get around to working on my 
musical projects, it was no big deal to give over a few extra minutes 
to answering a message, or surfing the internet, or... oh geez, 
lookit the time!!!  ;)

Like a few others have brought up, having a day gig keeps me focused. 
When working a regular job, I have to work "X" hours at making an 
income.  That leaves only "Z" hours which are dedicated to 
music/studio work, so I have to concentrate and make the best use of 
that time.  Are there times when having more time at hand would help 
a particular project?  Sure, but there are at least as many (more!) 
occasions where I'd end up getting distracted/lost if I didn't have 
that deadline to keep my eye on.

Just chalk that up to ADD, I guess.

Also, having another occupation helps clear my mind of music, so that 
I can focus on the music when I get to it.  And vice-versa, as 
working on the music helps sweep away the normal daily concerns as 
well.

So for some people, a system where individuals can concentrate solely 
on their art is a good thing.  For others, not so much.  The point is 
to just keep in mind that everyone is different, and, as always...

YMMV.  ;)

	--m.
-- 
_____
"bye-bye empire; empire, bye-bye"

From merly@portartur.ee  Wed Apr 16 02:58:01 2008
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Please take this opportunity to let your friends hear about us by sending them a postcard from our collection !<br>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 03:12:18 2008
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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:12:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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people dont want to pay musicians because they think
we are just playing all the time;-)
Luis






--- Travis Hartnett <travishartnett@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm not sure that anyone here is begrudging you the
> *desire* to devote all
> your time to music, just perhaps the money to do so.
>  People don't get paid
> to do something for a living because they chose to
> do something, they earn a
> living doing something that brings in enough money
> to live on.  If you want
> to be admired by some (but not all) people ("Oh how
> noble--look how devoted
> he is to his art, he's a...MUSICIAN!!!"), be a
> musician.  If you want a
> decent chance of getting people to pay you a working
> wage for something you
> do 8+ hours a day, consider doing something really
> useful--like plumbing.
> 
> Musicians frequently compare themselves to plumbers,
> carpenters or janitors,
> saying "You wouldn't expect these people to work for
> nothing--why expect
> musicians to do so?"  And the answer is that no-one
> would fix your plumbing
> unless you paid them a good deal of money.  It's not
> terribly pleasant
> work.  Indeed, your chance of making a living at a
> given occupation
> increases greatly if it's unpleasant or very
> difficult.  And while being a
> musician requires skill, study, discipline and so
> on, people can obtain
> music easily and cheaply without ever dealing with a
> musician, thanks to a
> century's worth of recordings.  And even if
> musicians were paid in a manner
> similar to tradesmen (plumbers, etc.), you'd have a
> tough time finding eight
> hours of musical work each day to bill for.   A
> plumber works for two hours,
> he bills for your two hours, plus materials, plus
> perhaps a fixed service
> call charge.  If gigs worked like that, you'd get
> paid for an hour's set,
> plus (let's say) a fixed "gig charge", and so you
> might gross a hundred
> bucks for the evening.  Not much to live on.  And
> realistically, getting
> paid $60/hour (roughly what a plumber charges in my
> neck of the woods) to
> play music is a rarity for most of us.
> 
> TH
> 
> lker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Again:    I can't fathom why people on this , of
> all lists, would begrudge
> > me the desire to devote all of my time to music
> that a professional
> > musical life affords me?
> >
> 


www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 03:39:41 2008
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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:39:29 -0400
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From: paul <phaslem@wightman.ca>
Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
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>If you want a decent chance of getting people to pay you a working 
>wage for something you do 8+ hours a day, consider doing something 
>really useful--like plumbing.

I found this to be a very interesting statement; does that mean that 
you don't consider what you do as a musician to be useful?

It just happens that what I do for a living is plumbing, and I work 
in maintenance at a hospital. So I do consider my plumbing work to be 
of importance, like last week when I repaired a leak that had just 
flooded out an operating room. And yet I would say that I've made a 
greater contribution to the world through my music than I'll ever do 
with my plumbing work. Last year I had someone come to me with a 
story that they had just come through one of the worst years of their 
life. She said "whenever I felt I couldn't go on anymore, I listened 
to your music and it helped me through" Now that's pretty useful 
stuff..... and I'll bet there's plenty of stories like that from 
various people on this list who have created incredible music that 
has touched peoples lives. I'm glad there's folks like Rick that are 
still out there and able to make some sort of living, it gives me 
hope that our society will some day value its artists enough to 
support them instead of just tolerating them.

Oh and by the way, I only make $25.00 an hour as a plumber, which 
does require a 5 yr apprenticeship, a license that has to be renewed 
every few years and lots of additional training and seminars to keep 
up with the current changes to the codes and equipment.

Paul Haslem
Ontario, Canada
www.dulcify.ca 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 04:25:47 2008
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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:25:45 -0400
From: "todd reynolds" <toddreyn@gmail.com>
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Replying specifically to Travis, with respect...
alright, then, following this reasoning, we shouldn't pay our ministers, our
therapists, any artists, fine or otherwise?  wouldn't the world look a
little bleak without them?  the elephant in the room is that musicians,
actors, artists... ARE 'useful'  as you put it, just only paid well when
they've found a way to fit into an already existing mold, creatively or not.
 (I was thinking about actors the other day... they're STILL 'playing' house
like children, just at an incredibly refined and elegant level, and as a
result of their perfected craft,  pretend and real life blur for us voyeurs
and we learn something about our shared condition)

I'm more like Rick.  I'm overtrained, I'm a pro, through and through, yet i
chose 20 years ago to 'specialize' on the fringes of the avant-garde, both
compositionally and improvisationally, therefore it's always a struggle
financially, but I'm happy being an innovator on whatever level that might
be.  I'm not the best at assessing that.  I just look for what's not there
yet, and try to chase it...

and speaking of 'not terribly pleasant work', my dad had me up at 430 in the
morning every morning.  not milking cows.  practicing.  and I gave my whole
childhood and adolescence to that.  Not complaining, but I didn't REALLY own
my musical identity til i was 23 and walked away from traditional classical
music.  what's that say?  not sure.  But sometimes I think we who went to
school for 4 hours a day trying desperately to master something DO have a
unique story to tell, one worth respect and  worth paying for.  It's just
always difficult to sell that.  and THAT is why this thread is so
interesting to me.   but the janitor/plumber thing doesn't really hold that
much for me.  Now SOUND men... you wouldn't ask THEM for a discount rate,
they're day rate is what it is, and often, its more than MY day rate, lol.

hope I'm not being too overzealous here, or offensive to anyone.

let's keep this one going, it's interesting!   and useful!

t.

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:31 PM, Travis Hartnett <travishartnett@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I'm not sure that anyone here is begrudging you the *desire* to devote all
> your time to music, just perhaps the money to do so.  People don't get paid
> to do something for a living because they chose to do something, they earn a
> living doing something that brings in enough money to live on.  If you want
> to be admired by some (but not all) people ("Oh how noble--look how devoted
> he is to his art, he's a...MUSICIAN!!!"), be a musician.  If you want a
> decent chance of getting people to pay you a working wage for something you
> do 8+ hours a day, consider doing something really useful--like plumbing.
>
> Musicians frequently compare themselves to plumbers, carpenters or
> janitors, saying "You wouldn't expect these people to work for nothing--why
> expect musicians to do so?"  And the answer is that no-one would fix your
> plumbing unless you paid them a good deal of money.  It's not terribly
> pleasant work.  Indeed, your chance of making a living at a given occupation
> increases greatly if it's unpleasant or very difficult.  And while being a
> musician requires skill, study, discipline and so on, people can obtain
> music easily and cheaply without ever dealing with a musician, thanks to a
> century's worth of recordings.  And even if musicians were paid in a manner
> similar to tradesmen (plumbers, etc.), you'd have a tough time finding eight
> hours of musical work each day to bill for.   A plumber works for two hours,
> he bills for your two hours, plus materials, plus perhaps a fixed service
> call charge.  If gigs worked like that, you'd get paid for an hour's set,
> plus (let's say) a fixed "gig charge", and so you might gross a hundred
> bucks for the evening.  Not much to live on.  And realistically, getting
> paid $60/hour (roughly what a plumber charges in my neck of the woods) to
> play music is a rarity for most of us.
>
> TH
>
>
> lker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Again:    I can't fathom why people on this , of all lists, would
> > begrudge me the desire to devote all of my time to music that a professional
> > musical life affords me?
> >
>
>


-- 
http://www.toddreynolds.com |:
http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic |:
------------------------------------------------------|:
917.576.6166
todd@toddreynolds.com
toddreyn@gmail.com

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Replying specifically to Travis, with respect...<div><br></div><div>alright=
, then, following this reasoning, we shouldn&#39;t pay our ministers, our t=
herapists, any artists, fine or otherwise? &nbsp;wouldn&#39;t the world loo=
k a little bleak without them? &nbsp;the elephant in the room is that music=
ians, actors, artists... ARE &#39;useful&#39; &nbsp;as you put it, just onl=
y paid well when they&#39;ve found a way to fit into an already existing mo=
ld, creatively or not. &nbsp;(I was thinking about actors the other day... =
they&#39;re STILL &#39;playing&#39; house like children, just at an incredi=
bly refined and elegant level, and as a result of their perfected craft, &n=
bsp;pretend and real life blur for us voyeurs and we learn something about =
our shared condition)</div>
<div><br></div><div>I&#39;m more like Rick. &nbsp;I&#39;m overtrained, I&#3=
9;m a pro, through and through, yet i chose 20 years ago to &#39;specialize=
&#39; on the fringes of the avant-garde, both compositionally and improvisa=
tionally, therefore it&#39;s always a struggle financially, but I&#39;m hap=
py being an innovator on whatever level that might be. &nbsp;I&#39;m not th=
e best at assessing that. &nbsp;I just look for what&#39;s not there yet, a=
nd try to chase it...</div>
<div><br></div><div>and speaking of &#39;not terribly pleasant work&#39;, m=
y dad had me up at 430 in the morning every morning. &nbsp;not milking cows=
. &nbsp;practicing. &nbsp;and I gave my whole childhood and adolescence to =
that. &nbsp;Not complaining, but I didn&#39;t REALLY own my musical identit=
y til i was 23 and walked away from traditional classical music. &nbsp;what=
&#39;s that say? &nbsp;not sure. &nbsp;But sometimes I think we who went to=
 school for 4 hours a day trying desperately to master something DO have a =
unique story to tell, one worth respect and &nbsp;worth paying for. &nbsp;I=
t&#39;s just always difficult to sell that. &nbsp;and THAT is why this thre=
ad is so interesting to me. &nbsp; but the janitor/plumber thing doesn&#39;=
t really hold that much for me. &nbsp;Now SOUND men... you wouldn&#39;t ask=
 THEM for a discount rate, they&#39;re day rate is what it is, and often, i=
ts more than MY day rate, lol.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br></div><div>hope I&#39;m not being too overzealous here, or offensi=
ve to anyone.</div><div><br></div><div>let&#39;s keep this one going, it&#3=
9;s interesting! &nbsp; and useful!</div><div><br></div><div>t.<br><div><br=
>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:31 PM, Travis Hartnet=
t &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:travishartnett@gmail.com">travishartnett@gmail.com<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .=
8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
I&#39;m not sure that anyone here is begrudging you the *desire* to devote =
all your time to music, just perhaps the money to do so.&nbsp; People don&#=
39;t get paid to do something for a living because they chose to do somethi=
ng, they earn a living doing something that brings in enough money to live =
on.&nbsp; If you want to be admired by some (but not all) people (&quot;Oh =
how noble--look how devoted he is to his art, he&#39;s a...MUSICIAN!!!&quot=
;), be a musician.&nbsp; If you want a decent chance of getting people to p=
ay you a working wage for something you do 8+ hours a day, consider doing s=
omething really useful--like plumbing.&nbsp; <br>

<br>Musicians frequently compare themselves to plumbers, carpenters or jani=
tors, saying &quot;You wouldn&#39;t expect these people to work for nothing=
--why expect musicians to do so?&quot;&nbsp; And the answer is that no-one =
would fix your plumbing unless you paid them a good deal of money.&nbsp; It=
&#39;s not terribly pleasant work.&nbsp; Indeed, your chance of making a li=
ving at a given occupation increases greatly if it&#39;s unpleasant or very=
 difficult.&nbsp; And while being a musician requires skill, study, discipl=
ine and so on, people can obtain music easily and cheaply without ever deal=
ing with a musician, thanks to a century&#39;s worth of recordings.&nbsp; A=
nd even if musicians were paid in a manner similar to tradesmen (plumbers, =
etc.), you&#39;d have a tough time finding eight hours of musical work each=
 day to bill for.&nbsp;&nbsp; A plumber works for two hours, he bills for y=
our two hours, plus materials, plus perhaps a fixed service call charge.&nb=
sp; If gigs worked like that, you&#39;d get paid for an hour&#39;s set, plu=
s (let&#39;s say) a fixed &quot;gig charge&quot;, and so you might gross a =
hundred bucks for the evening.&nbsp; Not much to live on.&nbsp; And realist=
ically, getting paid $60/hour (roughly what a plumber charges in my neck of=
 the woods) to play music is a rarity for most of us.<br>
<font color=3D"#888888">
<br>TH</font><div><div></div><div class=3D"Wj3C7c"><br><br><div class=3D"gm=
ail_quote">lker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:looppool@cruzio.com" target=3D"_blank=
">looppool@cruzio.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;p=
adding-left:1ex">

<br>
Again: &nbsp; &nbsp;I can&#39;t fathom why people on this , of all lists, w=
ould begrudge me the desire to devote all of my time to music that a profes=
sional<br>
musical life affords me? <br>
</blockquote></div><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><a href=3D"=
http://www.toddreynolds.com">http://www.toddreynolds.com</a> |:<br><a href=
=3D"http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic">http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmu=
sic</a> |:<br>
------------------------------------------------------|:<br>917.576.6166 <b=
r><a href=3D"mailto:todd@toddreynolds.com">todd@toddreynolds.com</a><br><a =
href=3D"mailto:toddreyn@gmail.com">toddreyn@gmail.com</a>
</div></div>

------=_Part_10787_7086643.1208319945279--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 04:31:43 2008
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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:16:21 -0400
From: "Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T)" <emile@foryourhead.com>
Subject: Poetic Vision  Friday 04.18  # Outpost 186, Cambridge MA
To: DrTVideo@egroups.com
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Hi folks,

On Friday April 18, I'll be performing at Outpost 186 in Cambridge as part of

"Poetic Vision" : an audio-visual collective trance
featuring:
Emile Tobenfeld - visual poetry
John Mulrooney - audio poetry
The Rivera/Brunel Method
with
Anthony Baldino - Laptopology

Last month's show was really fun. The show will start around 8:15 and 
the suggested donation is $7.

OUTPOST 186 : 186 1/2 hampshire st. cambridge ma 02139
updated concert & events : 
<http://www.zeitgeist-outpost.org/>www.zeitgeist-outpost.org/
-- 
" Practice makes perfect, imperfect is better."  -- Paul Bley

		Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D.
Video Producer			Image Processing Specialist
Video for your HEAD!			Boris FX
http://www.foryourhead.com		http://www.borisfx.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 04:31:44 2008
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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:19:09 -0400
From: "Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T)" <emile@foryourhead.com>
Subject: Video Improv Saturday w members of Birdsongs of the Mesozoic, Lowell,
 MA
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Hi folks,

On Saturday, April 19, I'll be performing with two old friends, Rick 
Scott and Michael Bierylo or Birdsongs of the Mesozoic at 119 Gallery 
in Lowell MA. Show time is 8 PM.

Doctor T, Video
Rick Scott, keyboards
Michael Bierylo guitar and laptop

Culinary Note: There is an outstanding Cambodian restaurant in a 
building adjourning the gallery.

$5- 10 donation.

119 Gallery, 119 Chelmsford St, Lowell
978 452 8138
  http://www.119gallery.org/

-- 
" Practice makes perfect, imperfect is better."  -- Paul Bley

		Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D.
Video Producer			Image Processing Specialist
Video for your HEAD!			Boris FX
http://www.foryourhead.com		http://www.borisfx.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 04:32:34 2008
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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:32:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: attitude(how much to ask for)
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Just curious friends,
so when you deal with club owners or venues how do you
determine then how much you should be paid,or how do
you figure out the economics of the city,town or venue
you are going to play beforehand?I know this is all
based on negotiation but where do you start and stop?
cheers
Luis




--- David Gans <david@trufun.com> wrote:

> 
> 
> My wife is a schoolteacher.  Talk about a profession
> that is 
> undervalued in this society!  (But she's got a great
> health plan, 
> which means we're not on the streets as a result of
> her bout with 
> lymphoma five years ago.  She won, by the way.)
> 
> Every one of us in this bidness watches in horror as
> profoundly 
> unworthy artists prosper while genius and innovation
> go begging. 
> There is no justice, and it's damn hard to get any. 
> I don't see much 
> point in raging about it.
> 
> Just yesterday, I put myself into a funk after
> hearing I was turned 
> down for a gig at a festival that I was sure I'd be
> perfect for.  And 
> the promoter is someone I thought was favorably
> inclined toward me 
> and my music. I grumbled to my booking agent briefly
> ("...reminded 
> that if you want a friend in the music business, get
> a dog.  And hope 
> he plays the banjo.') and then went back to work.
> 
> I make music that doesn't fall neatly into any
> category.  I write 
> songs that don't all sound like this or that, and I
> intersperse them 
> in performance with loop pieces, composed and
> improvised.  I'm too 
> weird for the singer-songwriter world and not weird
> enough for the 
> avant-garde or whatever you call it.  And on top of
> that, I'm too 
> fucking old to go to folk/bluegrass festivals in
> remote locations on 
> my own dime, sleep in the dirt, and work my way up
> from the 
> campground jams to the mainstage.  Plus: damn hard
> to schlep an 
> Echoplex and pedal board from campfire to campfire.
> 
> You deal with it.  You take the gig.  You do the
> best you can and 
> build your fan base the only way it's done: one at a
> time.  I figure 
> if I sell one CD Im ahead of the game, and if I
> bring home a few 
> email addresses for the spam list, that's a win too.
> 
> One of the best pieces of advice I ever got came
> when I interviewed 
> producer Ted Templeman for BAM Magazine.  He
> described his first 
> encounter with Van Halen, at a grubby club in
> Hollywood: a dozen 
> people in the room, but they were belting it out
> like it was a 
> sold-out show at the Forum.
> 
> I call it the "you-shoulda-been-there" approach: If
> there are four 
> people in the audience, send 'em all out of there
> telling their 
> friends they missed something great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> David Gans - david@trufun.com or david@gdhour.com
> Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102,
> Oakland CA 94610-2730
> Blog:  http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com
> Web site: http://www.dgans.com
> 
> 
> 


www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 04:54:53 2008
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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:54:47 -0500
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I'm dealing with exactly this question just now. The owner of a modest 
coffeeshop, where I fully expected to play for tips, asked me "What do 
you charge?" It seems so incredibly arbitrary what I would choose to 
charge in that situation - as opposed to, say, a nice restaurant where 
there's obviously a good amount of money coming in and so I actually do 
ask for what I think I'm worth - that I was a little baffled. I really 
wanted to play there, mainly as I have friends in that city and want to 
present my stuff to them, and this sort of coffeeshop nearly always 
means playing for tips. I didn't want to offer to play for free in a 
situation where money is apparently typical (thus dragging down the 
local market - I was mindful of the discussion here!) - and didn't want 
to price myself out of the gig, so I ended up asking for about half what 
I'd charge a restaurant...and am still waiting to hear back from him.

I'd love to know what other people do in a situation like this. You want 
the gig, and would take anything, but want to hit some mythical average 
you can only guess at.

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com

> Just curious friends,
> so when you deal with club owners or venues how do you
> determine then how much you should be paid,or how do
> you figure out the economics of the city,town or venue
> you are going to play beforehand?I know this is all
> based on negotiation but where do you start and stop?
> cheers
> Luis
>
>   

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 05:58:43 2008
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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:58:42 -0700
From: "Travis Hartnett" <travishartnett@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
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What I do as a musician is very useful--to me.  Fifteen years of public
performance has led me to the conclusion that it's not terribly useful to
most people, certainly not when it comes to them paying me money for what I
do.

When plumbing goes wrong, people get sick and die.  Clean water flowing in
and dirty water flowing out without a problem is a necessity for living.  If
I get hit by a bus on my way to a gig, they play the in-store CD player that
night.  When my sewer line breaks because a tree root has broken a pipe
under the front yard, I need a lot of specialized information, tools, time
and smelly effort to set things right again--or I pay someone else a
thousand dollars to do it better and quicker than I can.  When people don't
have any music, they turn on the radio and the problem's solved.  Music is
incredibly easy to find, plumbing less so.  Thus the average plumber makes
much more than the average musician.

TH

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 8:39 PM, paul <phaslem@wightman.ca> wrote:

>
>  If you want a decent chance of getting people to pay you a working wage
> > for something you do 8+ hours a day, consider doing something really
> > useful--like plumbing.
> >
>
> I found this to be a very interesting statement; does that mean that you
> don't consider what you do as a musician to be useful?
>
>
>
> Oh and by the way, I only make $25.00 an hour as a plumber, which does
> require a 5 yr apprenticeship, a license that has to be renewed every few
> years and lots of additional training and seminars to keep up with the
> current changes to the codes and equipment.
>
>
>

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What I do as a musician is very useful--to me.&nbsp; Fifteen years of public performance has led me to the conclusion that it&#39;s not terribly useful to most people, certainly not when it comes to them paying me money for what I do.<br>
<br>When plumbing goes wrong, people get sick and die.&nbsp; Clean water flowing in and dirty water flowing out without a problem is a necessity for living.&nbsp; If I get hit by a bus on my way to a gig, they play the in-store CD player that night.&nbsp; When my sewer line breaks because a tree root has broken a pipe under the front yard, I need a lot of specialized information, tools, time and smelly effort to set things right again--or I pay someone else a thousand dollars to do it better and quicker than I can.&nbsp; When people don&#39;t have any music, they turn on the radio and the problem&#39;s solved.&nbsp; Music is incredibly easy to find, plumbing less so.&nbsp; Thus the average plumber makes much more than the average musician.<br>
<br>TH<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 8:39 PM, paul &lt;<a href="mailto:phaslem@wightman.ca">phaslem@wightman.ca</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
If you want a decent chance of getting people to pay you a working wage for something you do 8+ hours a day, consider doing something really useful--like plumbing.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
I found this to be a very interesting statement; does that mean that you don&#39;t consider what you do as a musician to be useful?<br>
<br><br>
<br>
Oh and by the way, I only make $25.00 an hour as a plumber, which does require a 5 yr apprenticeship, a license that has to be renewed every few years and lots of additional training and seminars to keep up with the current changes to the codes and equipment.<br>
<font color="#888888">
<br><br>
</font></blockquote></div><br>

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Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
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On Apr 16, 2008, at 4:31 AM, Travis Hartnett wrote:

> people can obtain music easily and cheaply without ever dealing with  
> a musician, thanks to a century's worth of recordings.

Without dealing directly with musicians.

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We all need to hire Paul to do our plumbing - we get the "useful" and 
"necessary" tasks done and support music at the same time...!

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com
>> If you want a decent chance of getting people to pay you a working 
>> wage for something you do 8+ hours a day, consider doing something 
>> really useful--like plumbing.
>
> I found this to be a very interesting statement; does that mean that 
> you don't consider what you do as a musician to be useful?
>
> It just happens that what I do for a living is plumbing, and I work in 
> maintenance at a hospital. So I do consider my plumbing work to be of 
> importance, like last week when I repaired a leak that had just 
> flooded out an operating room. And yet I would say that I've made a 
> greater contribution to the world through my music than I'll ever do 
> with my plumbing work. Last year I had someone come to me with a story 
> that they had just come through one of the worst years of their life. 
> She said "whenever I felt I couldn't go on anymore, I listened to your 
> music and it helped me through" Now that's pretty useful stuff..... 
> and I'll bet there's plenty of stories like that from various people 
> on this list who have created incredible music that has touched 
> peoples lives. I'm glad there's folks like Rick that are still out 
> there and able to make some sort of living, it gives me hope that our 
> society will some day value its artists enough to support them instead 
> of just tolerating them.
>
> Oh and by the way, I only make $25.00 an hour as a plumber, which does 
> require a 5 yr apprenticeship, a license that has to be renewed every 
> few years and lots of additional training and seminars to keep up with 
> the current changes to the codes and equipment.
>
> Paul Haslem
> Ontario, Canada
> www.dulcify.ca
>

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Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:58:01 -0700
From: "Travis Hartnett" <travishartnett@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
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Which, for many people, in many cases, is a bonus.


On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:05 PM, doc rossi <docittern@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On Apr 16, 2008, at 4:31 AM, Travis Hartnett wrote:
>
>  people can obtain music easily and cheaply without ever dealing with a
> > musician, thanks to a century's worth of recordings.
> >
>
> Without dealing directly with musicians.
>
>

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Which, for many people, in many cases, is a bonus.&nbsp; <br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 11:05 PM, doc rossi &lt;<a href="mailto:docittern@gmail.com">docittern@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
On Apr 16, 2008, at 4:31 AM, Travis Hartnett wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
people can obtain music easily and cheaply without ever dealing with a musician, thanks to a century&#39;s worth of recordings.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
Without dealing directly with musicians.<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br>

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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:04:11 +0200
From: "Per Boysen" <perboysen@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: attitude(how much to ask for)
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I do other work besides playing music and this work is also carried
out in the format of running my own one man business. This "daytime
job" has to do with writing books, magazine articles, speaking and
lecturing, mixing, teaching private students, groups, music studio
staff - everything dealing with topics related to music. I have no
platform and always go out "on a gig with a fixed price". So the stuff
I do besides performing music is not very different from selling my
concerts when it comes to setting my price and negotiating. I was
struggling to survive and one day I thought that I should try to set
the initial price higher to see what that might give. I was a bit
afraid to lose some jobs but quite the opposite actually happened. And
the higher price level seemed to function as some sort of "quality
justification" for my customers (which is just crazy if you ask me).
In my daily praxis I also found that the higher level gave me the time
needed to prepare well and do a really good performance when I to it,
as opposed to having to rush all the time as before when I went out on
a thinner bill.

It doesn't make much sense to compare markets in different countries
but here in Sweden I go out with the minimal price 841 USD. If someone
asks me to go out cheaper I just tell them I'm afraid I can't afford
it, which really is the truth. I think its good to state a nominal
price level, but then you can accept more if offered and go lower if
it seems the right thing to do for you in a longer perspective. I tend
to play cheaper at more "arty" venues or festivals.

Sometimes I've been playing with the idea of doing "a campaign",
playing everywhere for no money just in order to expose something
extraordinary and get the word out. I have not launched any such
campaign yet since I have not managed to gather the time and energy to
put together something extraordinary ;-)  but I think it's a good
idea. Maybe someone else try it? The good thing with a time limited
and explicit campaign is that it will not lower your nominal price.

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 07:06:33 2008
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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:06:31 -0700
From: "Travis Hartnett" <travishartnett@gmail.com>
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My experience

There's a huge amount of variables involved.  For a coffeehouse type gig in
the city where I live, the "good" places pay $50 plus free food and whatever
tips and CD sales you can muster up.  For the "bad" coffeehouses, it may
only be tips and CD's and a discount on the food.

For weddings and corporate gigs, about $75-100/hour, starting from when I
leave the driveway until I return.

Band gigs in bars--always some bullshit formula involving percentages of the
bar, the door, less the soundman and doorman fees which amounts to $20-80
takehome for the entire band.

For bars and cafes, the deals are usually "take it or leave it"--the venue
offers you something, and are usually completely unwilling to negotiate.

TH

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 9:32 PM, L.A. Angulo <labaloops@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Just curious friends,
> so when you deal with club owners or venues how do you
> determine then how much you should be paid,or how do
> you figure out the economics of the city,town or venue
> you are going to play beforehand?I know this is all
> based on negotiation but where do you start and stop?
> cheers
> Luis
>
>
>

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My experience<br><br>There&#39;s a huge amount of variables involved.&nbsp; For a coffeehouse type gig in the city where I live, the &quot;good&quot; places pay $50 plus free food and whatever tips and CD sales you can muster up.&nbsp; For the &quot;bad&quot; coffeehouses, it may only be tips and CD&#39;s and a discount on the food.<br>
<br>For weddings and corporate gigs, about $75-100/hour, starting from when I leave the driveway until I return.&nbsp; <br><br>Band gigs in bars--always some bullshit formula involving percentages of the bar, the door, less the soundman and doorman fees which amounts to $20-80 takehome for the entire band.<br>
<br>For bars and cafes, the deals are usually &quot;take it or leave it&quot;--the venue offers you something, and are usually completely unwilling to negotiate.<br><br>TH<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 9:32 PM, L.A. Angulo &lt;<a href="mailto:labaloops@yahoo.com">labaloops@yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Just curious friends,<br>
so when you deal with club owners or venues how do you<br>
determine then how much you should be paid,or how do<br>
you figure out the economics of the city,town or venue<br>
you are going to play beforehand?I know this is all<br>
based on negotiation but where do you start and stop?<br>
cheers<br>
Luis<br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br>

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	100033194@alumnos.uc3m.es, 100033242@alumnos.uc3m.es,
	100033298@alumnos.uc3m.es, 100033325@alumnos.uc3m.es,
	100033452@alumnos.uc3m.es, 100039253@alumnos.uc3m.es,
	100039262@alumnos.uc3m.es, 100039353@alumnos.uc3m.es,
	100039467@alumnos.uc3m.es, 100040211@alumnos.uc3m.es,
	100047522@alumnos.uc3m.es, aalcaide@inf.uc3m.es,
	abogada_alex@hotmail.com, acrespo@ia.uc3m.es, aighol@yahoo.es,
	"alba manzares" <alba_m_a@hotmail.com>,
	"Alba Rey" <albarey@gmail.com>,
	"Alberto Abad Ballesteros" <alberto.abad.ballesteros@gmail.com>,
	"Alberto M" <las.leyes.de.murphy@gmail.com>,
	"alberto s m" <alberto-silence@hotmail.com>,
	"ALBERTO SERRANO" <er_blaya@yahoo.es>,
	"Alberto Sierra Menchero" <albegto@hotmail.com>,
	albertoi@math.uc3m.es, albitaweb@hotmail.com,
	"ALCAZAR SAIZ, VIDAL" <100033425@alumnos.uc3m.es>,
	"Alvaro Reina" <reina83@gmail.com>,
	"Alvaro Santisteban" <alvarosantisteban@gmail.com>,
	Amaia <melliza3@gmail.com>, "ANA RASTROLLO" <ana_vegar@hotmail.com>,
	"ana teresa" <anat_sucre@hotmail.com>,
	"andres marsa" <andres.marsa@gmail.com>, andresin_moreno@hotmail.com,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C1ngel_Fuertes?=" <pinchorl@gmail.com>,
	"Angel Lagares" <alagares@gmail.com>,
	"Angela Loder" <angela.loder@utoronto.ca>,
	Anuska <anuskabenitez@hotmail.com>, areina17@hotmail.com,
	armanodiee@aim.com, "arturo m" <mierdauc3m@gmail.com>,
	aserg69@hotmail.com, asmrjb@yahoo.es, bagbolla_@hotmail.com,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Barbara_Kanad=E1?=" <barhipe12@hotmail.com>,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bea_Bartolom=E9?=" <beabartolome@gmail.com>,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Beatriz_Ord=F3=F1ez?=" <betuka1983@gmail.com>,
	"Benjamin Forstag" <benforstag@hotmail.com>, bisoncino@yahoo.it,
	boozebluesnbbq@gmail.com, caballo_d_carton@hotmail.es,
	"caglos plimo" <caglos@hotmail.com>, carlasvj@hotmail.com,
	Carol <carolain@gmail.com>, carol1616@hotmail.com,
	cbenac@inf.uc3m.es, chamaperez@hotmail.com, chaminet@hotmail.com,
	"Chema de Fuentes" <100039302@alumnos.uc3m.es>,
	"Chicho Martinez" <la_ley_de_murphy@hotmail.com>,
	chris84dc@hotmail.com,
	"CLE Customer Support" <support@europe.creative.com>,
	Colegio <jesus.manzanares@colegiovilladegrinon.com>,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Concejal=EDa_de_Cultura_-_Ayto._de_Carranque_(Toledo)?=" <cultura@ayto-carranque.com>,
	correo@crisfer.com, crazyburon83@hotmail.com,
	"Cristina Diaz" <dmcris@gmail.com>,
	"Cristina.Garcia.Bennett@everis.com" <cristina.garcia.bennett@everis.com>,
	"Dani Mart" <viajecarrera@gmail.com>,
	david <david.mon.martin@gmail.com>,
	"David Barbolla" <dbarbolla@gmail.com>,
	"David Barbolla Asenjo" <barbolla_@hotmail.com>,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?David_Barrag=E1n_Merino?=" <bameda@gmail.com>,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?David_V=E1zquez?=" <juliusgrouchomarx@gmail.com>,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?david_v=E1zquez?=" <zex_zirux@hotmail.com>,
	davilinr@hotmail.com, "diana brug" <dianabrug@hotmail.com>,
	"Diego Ezquerro" <dezquerro@gmail.com>,
	"Diego Ezquerro" <ezquerro.35911@gmail.com>,
	"Diego Ezquerro" <ezquerro35911@gmail.com>,
	"Diego Gomez Diaz" <diegogd@gmail.com>,
	"Diego Perez" <akilascartas@gmail.com>, dodero@inf.uc3m.es,
	donata_robledo@hotmail.com, doug.foxvog@deri.org, drums@thomann.de,
	dualklip@phoenix-connection.com,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?El_Corte_Ingl=E9s?=" <promocionesdvdsac@elcorteingles.es>,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Elena_Cano_Mart=EDn?=" <elenis_79@hotmail.com>,
	"Elena Cases" <elenacases@gmail.com>,
	"Elena Castro" <ecastro@inf.uc3m.es>,
	"Elena Figueroalloreda" <elenacosquillitas@yahoo.es>,
	"Elena Frau" <elena.frau@gmail.com>, eleni.mangina@uc3m.es,
	"ELENITA XD" <unpoquitodeporfavor007@hotmail.com>,
	"elmejorporterodecarranque."@hotmail.com,
	elmejorporterodecarranque@hotmail.com,
	"eloisa lopez" <cuelebre_2_77@hotmail.com>,
	"Elora HRanma" <elorahranma@gmail.com>,
	Enrique <enri.el10@gmail.com>, "Erika Moreno" <erika83@gmail.com>,
	"estefania rodriguez casarrubios" <fanipipol@hotmail.com>,
	"ester asensio" <ester.asensio@gmail.com>,
	"Ester Guada" <edinwol@msn.com>, exotica_yo@hotmail.com,
	exoticamente_yo@hotmail.com, export-spanien@musicstore.de,
	Fabian <fabiannn@gmail.com>, fati_getafe@hotmail.com,
	fcruz@arcos.inf.uc3m.es, "fede cebrian" <tiritotri@gmail.com>,
	"Fede Cebrian Soto" <fede_cebrian2@hotmail.com>,
	feedback.es@ciao-es.com, "Fernando Alisal" <alisalfer@imaweb.net>,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fernando_Cruz_Periba=F1ez?=" <lokiz82@gmail.com>,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fernando_N=FA=F1ez_Real?=" <fertornillitos@yahoo.es>,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fernando_Zazo_Mu=F1oz?=" <oostehoo@gmail.com>,
	fisaila@inf.uc3m.es,
	"flanagan flanagan" <flanagans-band@hotmail.com>,
	flanagans_band@hotmail.com, flannagans_band@hotmail.com,
	flico@telefonica.net, florin@arcos.inf.uc3m.es,
	Fraga <jose.fraga@gmail.com>,
	"Francisco Garcia Sanchez" <frgarcia@um.es>, Frannkyx@hotmail.com,
	"FRAU CARRO, ELENA" <100029945@alumnos.uc3m.es>,
	fury_161@hotmail.com, "Gabriel de la Cruz" <syxtem@yahoo.com>,
	"GamerSection.ca (Support)" <support@gamersection.ca>,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gema_Navarro_Gonz=E1lez?=" <gema0017@hotmail.com>,
	"Gema Segura" <gemilla@hotmail.com>,
	"Gema Segura" <shanilka@gmail.com>, gemilla2@hotmail.com,
	gib_se3@googlegroups.com, gib2@googlegroups.com,
	"GIL IZQUIERDO, ENRIQUE JUAN" <100051490@alumnos.uc3m.es>,
	gitarre@thomann.de, grbubba@hotmail.com, guadams@gmail.com,
	gunfaceisover@hotmail.com,
	"Haydee Artaza Alvarez" <haydeeartaza@gmail.com>,
	"Helena Giron Vazquez" <helenita_gz@hotmail.com>,
	"herrero blanco" <judith_hb@hotmail.com>, hipomeno@gmail.com,
	hipomeno@hotmail.com, "Hugo Fernandez" <huguete@hotmail.com>,
	"ignacio A M" <ignacio_a_m@hotmail.com>,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?I=F1aki-UC3M-?=" <jirsis@gmail.com>,
	info-spain@musik-produktiv.de, info.es@ciao-es.com,
	irene.tremblay@gmail.com, Isaac-UC3M- <isacarias@gmail.com>,
	"Israel Barroso" <israel.barroso@gmail.com>,
	"Israel Gordn L?pez" <thenancyboy@hotmail.com>,
	"ISRAEL MINAYA RODRIGUEZ" <isra_hell69@hotmail.com>,
	"Ivan Lyubomirov Pavlov" <ivan.lyubomirov.pavlov@gmail.com>,
	"Ivan Medin" <ivanmedin@gmail.com>,
	"Ivan sanchez" <ivansolari20@hotmail.com>,
	Ivan.Medin.Perez.Lago@everis.com, iverona@gmail.com,
	j_gejo@hotmail.com, j_rojas_girona@hotmail.com,
	"J.Artolazabal@surrey.ac.uk" <J.Artolazabal@surrey.ac.uk>,
	j.manzanares@telefonica.net, ja_racl@hotmail.com,
	"Jaime Latorre" <motisarts@gmail.com>, jamsterweb@gmail.com,
	javi <merchan2525@hotmail.com>,
	"Javi Escribano" <javipirulo@gmail.com>, javidon5@hotmail.com,
	"Javier Chamizo Aguado" <chaminet@gmail.com>,
	"Javier Escribano" <scryfpj@yahoo.es>,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Javier_Linero_Fern=E1ndez?=" <linfez@hotmail.com>,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Javier_N=FA=F1ez_Fern=E1ndez?=" <jnfernandez@sadiel.es>,
	"Javier Paciencia" <100033310@alumnos.uc3m.es>,
	"Javier.Cuesta@everis.com" <Javier.Cuesta@everis.com>,
	javierbotija@gmail.com, javimayra1@yahoo.es,
	"Javitchuu Asensio" <javitchuu@gmail.com>, javitchuu@hotmail.com,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_Manzanares?=" <caballo_d_carton@hotmail.com>,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_Manzanares?=" <greenwiredworld@gmail.com>,
	jgartman@psu.edu, jjmoreno@math.uc3m.es,
	joaquintomiyasu <joaquintomiyasu@gmail.com>,
	"Jonatan Dal Bon" <jony@imaweb.net>,
	"jorge blasco" <guizos@gmail.com>,
	"Jorge Blasco" <jbalis@inf.uc3m.es>,
	"Jorge Villalobos Beato" <tiusender@gmail.com>,
	jorge_correas@hotmail.com,
	"Jose Antonio Rodriguez Artolazabal" <jar.artolazabal@googlemail.com>,
	"jose fernandez" <josejazz@gmail.com>,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jose_Manuel_Mart=EDnez?=" <Greven_ab@hotmail.com>,
	"JSPHT8338@aol.com" <JSPHT8338@aol.com>,
	"juan carlos pozas bustos" <everis.podcasting@gmail.com>,
	"Juan Hillegas" <juanhi@imaweb.net>,
	"Juan Miguel Gomez" <juanmiguel.gomez@uc3m.es>,
	"Juancho Pozas Bustos" <juancho.p.b@gmail.com>,
	JuaNo <algarrobotorre@gmail.com>, julian@imaweb.net,
	"julio vidal oltra" <jbeatles@msn.com>,
	"jwesseln@gmx.de" <jwesseln@gmx.de>,
	"Karen Perez" <karennat1982@hotmail.com>,
	KE_pasa_con_KE@googlegroups.com, kerubinfenix@telefonica.net,
	lagocom@hotmail.com, laidatxo292@hotmail.com, lara_fq@hotmail.com,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Laura_Guti=E9rrez?=" <laris84@gmail.com>,
	"Laura Manzanares" <lmartolaz@gmail.com>,
	"laura.manzanaresartolazabal@telefonica.es" <laura.manzanaresartolazabal@telefonica.es>,
	laura.manzanaresartolazabal@telefonica.net, laurilla_uni@hotmail.com,
	leticia.rodriguezartolazabal@telefonica.es,
	leticia.rodriguezartoloazabal@telefonica.es,
	lgomezmolina@hotmail.com, "Linda Loder" <lindaloder@gmail.com>,
	linda@exploringengland.ca,
	"lolo ma nolo" <noenquenoencuanto@hotmail.com>,
	Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com,
	Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com, lossanz@hotmail.com,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lucia_Morl=E1n_Mairal?=" <lucia_mmgd@hotmail.com>,
	"Luis Leon" <luiskabra@hotmail.com>,
	"luis osuna" <luiso_777@yahoo.es>, luis. <luisgavriel@gmail.com>,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=AAEster_Asensio?=" <paywaket@yahoo.es>,
	marga_y_vane@msn.com, MARIA <mariahernandezdejuan@gmail.com>,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mar=EDa_Casado?=" <strawmery@yahoo.es>,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mar=EDa_Casado_Hern=E1ndez?=" <strawmery@gmail.com>,
	"maria diaz" <mariaddlc@hotmail.com>,
	"Maria Escribano" <mary_mary32@hotmail.com>,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?maricarmen_mart=EDn_guzm=E1n?=" <mamenguzi84@hotmail.com>,
	mario <marietebs1983@hotmail.com>,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Marta_Chippirr=E1s_And=FAjar?=" <mchippirras@solusoft.es>,
	"Max Forstag" <maximothegreat721@gmail.com>, mayyyte_880@hotmail.com,
	"Miguel Angel Fonticiella Torre" <fonti84@gmail.com>,
	"Miguel Francisco Flores Belio" <mic_label@hotmail.com>,
	mikel_mg@hotmail.com, mmmar441@hotmail.com, morehash@hotmail.com,
	mroser@ing.uc3m.es, msmialek@inf.uc3m.es, music-me@gmx.de,
	"Musikhaus Thomann" <info@thomann.de>,
	"Nachete Gomez" <ignacio_gomez_ruiz28@hotmail.com>,
	natademislata@hotmail.com,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nieves_Pem=E1n?=" <nieves.peman@gmail.com>,
	"nieves peman" <pemanbaena@hotmail.com>,
	"noelia valero manzanares" <noelia_valero_manzanares@hotmail.com>,
	"Olena Khomyn" <olena@imaweb.net>, oscar@lab.inf.uc3m.es,
	"pa a" <proga2006@gmail.com>, pa@thomann.de,
	"Pablo Estebanez" <perodrig@inf.uc3m.es>,
	pablo.estebanez.uc3m@gmail.com, pabloae@gmail.com,
	"pantuflos@hotmail.com" <pantuflos@hotmail.com>,
	"Patricia Laguna" <lagu1717@hotmail.com>, patrilagu@gmail.com,
	patrireflejos@hotmail.com, pc_13c@msn.com,
	Peique <yopeique@gmail.com>, Pelos <capitan.cambio@gmail.com>,
	Peluche <archancellor@gmail.com>,
	"pilar asensio" <piliasensio@gmail.com>,
	"pilar igualada" <pipu_iv@hotmail.com>,
	"piluki51@hotmail.com" <piluki51@hotmail.com>,
	"Piotr Cierpich" <piotrek_cierpich@o2.pl>,
	"Piotr Cierpich" <piotrek_cierpich@tlen.pl>, pipugenial@gmail.com,
	"PLAZA RAMOS, RUBEN" <100029783@alumnos.uc3m.es>,
	plazahector@hotmail.com, pmf@inf.uc3m.es, profaris@gmail.com,
	PZT <palomazafratunon@gmail.com>, rakel_gtafe@hotmail.com,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Raquel_Garc=EDa_Hermida?=" <raquela_hermida@hotmail.com>,
	"=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Raquel_Tar=EDn_Dom=EDnguez?=" <raqueltd_84@yahoo.es>,
	"Raul Plaza" <raul.plaza@gmail.com>, realeck69@hotmail.com,
	rocio1607@gmail.com, rocio1607@hotmail.com,
	Rodrigo <rodrigoalicante@yahoo.es>, rrhh@jugueteriapoly.com,
	rrhh@solusoft.es, "Ruben Plaza Ramos" <rubanetti@gmail.com>,
	"ruben.gonzalez.rincon@everis.com" <ruben.gonzalez.rincon@everis.com>,
	ruubenmartin@hotmail.com, sales@springdalemusic.com,
	"samuel esteban" <blondiepunk@gmail.com>,
	samuel.esteban.munoz@everis.com, sandrahg23@hotmail.com,
	sandrametal@hotmail.com, sandriruri@hotmail.com,
	"Sebastian Maharg - Bravo" <bravo74@rocketmail.com>,
	"Sergio Adrada" <adrada@hotmail.com>,
	"Sergio Contreras" <hipoglucido@gmail.com>,
	"sergio jimenez" <kuatiyo2@hotmail.com>,
	"SERGIO JIMENEZ CELORRIO" <sjimenez@inf.uc3m.es>,
	"Sergio Pastrana" <duendewana@gmail.com>,
	"Sergio Pastrana" <sergio.pastrana@gmail.com>,
	"Sergio Rebollo" <sergio.rebollo@philips.com>,
	"Sergio Serrano Grande" <sserranogrande@gmail.com>,
	sergio.jimenez.celorrio@gmail.com, sergiocampos1984@gmail.com,
	service@pollin.de, sexsymbol24@hotmail.com, sgverdejo@gmail.com,
	sil_rmogollon@hotmail.com, simon.pickin@uc3m.es,
	slipi.yo@alumnos.uc3m.es, smart_world@googlegroups.com,
	smialek@iem.pw.edu.pl, soyvico@hotmail.com,
	"Spain Thomann" <spain@thomann.de>,
	"spickin@it.uc3m.es" <spickin@it.uc3m.es>, superkiss2203@hotmail.com,
	surmusicstudio@hotmail.com,
	"Sus Majestades LosReyesMagos" <putosreyesmagos@gmail.com>,
	teresitahummer@hotmail.com,
	"Thomann International Hotline" <international@thomann.de>,
	"Tomas de la Rosa" <trosa@inf.uc3m.es>,
	"tupeor pesadilla" <masterizando.jsf@gmail.com>,
	uni_33325@telefonica.net, verdemanzana.la@gmail.com,
	vicente.ramosfernandez@gmail.com,
	"Victor (gmail)" <bristery@gmail.com>,
	"Vidal Alcazar" <afufa1@hotmail.com>, vidal.alcazar@alumnos.uc3m.es,
	vieja_dl_orto@hotmail.com, virchete@gmail.com, vitman23@hotmail.com,
	wardinst@aol.com, yopeique@hotmail.com, zandry@gmail.com
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Por favor, que nadie m=E1s conteste a este mail, si quereis hacernos saber =
que
vais a venir, nos lo poneis en un mensaje a nosotros. Muchas gracias a todo=
s
por todo y por aguantar el taladro.

Lo siento mucho.
Jes=FAs Manzanares.

2008/4/16 David Rivera <davilinr@gmail.com>:

> Yo creo que podre ir se=F1ores Blindes y Lobos, asi que a afinar bien est=
a
> semanita, que el domingo os quiero finos.
>
> Un saludo al 30% de la mega-lista de correos que supongo que conozco y al
> 70% que no se si conozco, tambien.
>
>
>
> El d=EDa 16 de abril de 2008 9:29, Lorena Herrera Lopez <
> mlherreral@gmail.com> escribi=F3:
>
> Yo no me lo perder=EDa por nada del mundo, all=ED nos vemos jajajaja
> >
> >
> > On 4/16/08, Vicente Ramos Fernandez <vicente.ramos@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Vaya! pues para este no va a poder ser pero se presenta un festival
> > > que S=ED que voy a ir: http://www.electric-weekend.com/
> > >
> > > Y por cierto, a pasarlo bien por Dublin, yo estuve con unos colegas
> > > hace un mes, en un finde expresss y la ca=F1a!! no hab=EDa bebido tan=
tas
> > > guinness en mi vida!!!
> > >
> > > Ismael escribi=F3:
> > >
> > > Yo tampoco voy a poder chavales!! Que estoy con Federico en Dubl=EDn.
> > >
> > > Suerte y a ver si hay suerte en el siguiente...
> > > Ismael
> > >
> > > 2008/4/15 Silvia Rodr=EDguez <silvy.woman@gmail.com>:
> > >
> > > > Yo s=ED voy, jejeje! Vamos a no ser que me pase algo, que no creo!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2008/4/15 Pablo Mu=F1oz <pablo.realeck69@gmail.com>:
> > > >
> > > > > No puedo, ese domingo cojo un vuelo para Suiza. Me jode no podeir
> > > > > ir a veros.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lo siento. Avisadme por favor la siguiente!!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2008/4/15, Ram=F3n Arg=FCello <monchote@gmail.com>:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yo no podr=E9 ir, pero os deseo toda la suerte del mundo!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Saludos
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 4:43 PM, Sergio Campos <
> > > > > > scampos1984@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Pasarlo muy bien y reventad el escenario, yo no podr=E9 ir ;-=
)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2008/4/15 Pilar Sopena <pssuils@gmail.com>:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh=
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
> > > > > > > > (grito de groupie locaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 3:47 PM, Jes=FAs Manzanares <
> > > > > > > > slipi.yo@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [Jes=FAs: Que wapo!!! yo voy fijo, tio soys la polla, no =
me
> > > > > > > > > lo pierdo por nada!!!!!]
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hola a toos!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Blind vuelve a los escenarios (esta vez sin gripes), que
> > > > > > > > > tenemos unas ganas locas de tocar para vosotros. El rolli=
to es el pr=F3ximo
> > > > > > > > > domingo en la sala barracudas que est=E1 el la calle brec=
ia
> > > > > > > > > 19<http://maps.google.com/maps?f=3Dq&hl=3Den&geocode=3D&q=
=3DMadrid,+Spain,+brecia&jsv=3D107.hc&sll=3D40.435189,-3.665013&sspn=3D0.01=
0845,0.020084&ie=3DUTF8&ll=3D40.435679,-3.664241&spn=3D0.010845,0.020084&t=
=3Dh&z=3D16&iwloc=3Daddr>
> > > > > > > > > (metro parque de las avenidas / ventas). Lo cosa empezar=
=E1 a las 21h el
> > > > > > > > > domingo 20 (si lo se, pero tambi=E9n mola empezar la sema=
na de resaca).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Os esparamos a todos!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > << Sergio Campos >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Silvia Rodr=EDguez.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

------=_Part_4739_19900469.1208333782563
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline

Por favor, que nadie m=E1s conteste a este mail, si quereis hacernos saber =
que vais a venir, nos lo poneis en un mensaje a nosotros. Muchas gracias a =
todos por todo y por aguantar el taladro.<br><br>Lo siento mucho.<br>Jes=FA=
s Manzanares.<br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2008/4/16 David Rivera &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:davilinr@gmail.com">davilinr@gmail.com</a>&gt;:<br><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt =
0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Yo creo que podre ir se=F1ores Blindes y Lobos, asi que a afinar bien esta =
semanita, que el domingo os quiero finos.<br><br>Un saludo al 30% de la meg=
a-lista de correos que supongo que conozco y al 70% que no se si conozco, t=
ambien.<br>

<br><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">El d=EDa 16 de abril de 2008 9:29, L=
orena Herrera Lopez &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mlherreral@gmail.com" target=3D"_=
blank">mlherreral@gmail.com</a>&gt; escribi=F3:<div><div></div><div class=
=3D"Wj3C7c">
<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(2=
04, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Yo no me lo perder=EDa por nada del mundo, all=ED nos vemos jajajaja<div><d=
iv></div><div><br><br>
<div><span class=3D"gmail_quote">On 4/16/08, <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">=
Vicente Ramos Fernandez</b> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:vicente.ramos@gmail.com" =
target=3D"_blank">vicente.ramos@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#ffffff">Vaya! pues para este no va a pode=
r ser pero se presenta un festival que S=ED que voy a ir: <a href=3D"http:/=
/www.electric-weekend.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.electric-weekend.c=
om/</a>&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>


<br>Y por cierto, a pasarlo bien por Dublin, yo estuve con unos colegas hac=
e un mes, en un finde expresss y la ca=F1a!! no hab=EDa bebido tantas guinn=
ess en mi vida!!! <br><br>Ismael escribi=F3:=20
<div><span>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">Yo tampoco voy a poder chavales!! Que estoy con F=
ederico en Dubl=EDn.<br><br>Suerte y a ver si hay suerte en el siguiente...=
<br>Ismael<br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">2008/4/15 Silvia Rodr=EDguez &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:silvy.woman@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">silvy.woman@gmail.com</a>&gt;:<=
br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Yo s=ED voy, jeje=
je! Vamos a no ser que me pase algo, que no creo!<br><br><br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">2008/4/15 Pablo Mu=F1oz &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pa=
blo.realeck69@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">pablo.realeck69@gmail.com</a>&gt=
;:=20
<div>
<div><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">No puedo, ese dom=
ingo cojo un vuelo para Suiza. Me jode no podeir ir a veros.<br><br>Lo sien=
to. Avisadme por favor la siguiente!!<br>


<br><br><br>
<div><span class=3D"gmail_quote">2008/4/15, Ram=F3n Arg=FCello &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:monchote@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">monchote@gmail.com</a>&gt;=
:</span>=20
<div>
<div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Yo no podr=E9 ir,=
 pero os deseo toda la suerte del mundo!<br><br>Saludos=20
<div><span><br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 4:43 PM, Sergio Campos &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:scampos1984@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">scampos1984@g=
mail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Pasarlo muy bien =
y reventad el escenario, yo no podr=E9 ir ;-)<br><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">2008/4/15 Pilar Sopena &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pss=
uils@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">pssuils@gmail.com</a>&gt;:=20
<div>
<div><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa=
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh=
hhhhhhh! (grito de groupie locaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)<br>


<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 3:47 PM, Jes=FAs Manzana=
res &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:slipi.yo@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">slipi.yo@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">[Jes=FAs: Que wapo!!! yo voy fijo, tio soys la p=
olla, no me lo pierdo por nada!!!!!]=20
<div><br><br><br>Hola a toos!<br><br>Blind vuelve a los escenarios (esta ve=
z sin gripes), que tenemos unas ganas locas de tocar para vosotros. El roll=
ito es el pr=F3ximo domingo en la sala barracudas que est=E1 el la <a href=
=3D"http://maps.google.com/maps?f=3Dq&amp;hl=3Den&amp;geocode=3D&amp;q=3DMa=
drid,+Spain,+brecia&amp;jsv=3D107.hc&amp;sll=3D40.435189,-3.665013&amp;sspn=
=3D0.010845,0.020084&amp;ie=3DUTF8&amp;ll=3D40.435679,-3.664241&amp;spn=3D0=
.010845,0.020084&amp;t=3Dh&amp;z=3D16&amp;iwloc=3Daddr" target=3D"_blank">c=
alle brecia 19</a>&nbsp; (metro parque de las avenidas / ventas). Lo cosa e=
mpezar=E1 a las 21h el domingo 20 (si lo se, pero tambi=E9n mola empezar la=
 semana de resaca). <br>


<br>Os esparamos a todos!<br><br><br><br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br><br><br>&nbsp;</div></div><br></blockquote></div><br></bl=
ockquote></div></div></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><font color=3D"=
#888888">&lt;&lt; Sergio Campos &gt;&gt; </font></blockquote>


</div><br></span></div></blockquote></div></div></div><br></blockquote></di=
v></div></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><font color=3D"#888888">Silv=
ia Rodr=EDguez. </font></blockquote></div><br></blockquote><br></span></div=
>

</div>
</blockquote></div><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><br>
</blockquote></div><br>

------=_Part_4739_19900469.1208333782563--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 08:56:12 2008
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From: "Rick Walker" <looppool@cruzio.com>
To: "LOOPERS DELIGHT \(posting\)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 01:56:15 -0700
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Travis wrote:
"What I do as a musician is very useful--to me.  Fifteen years of public 
performance has led me to the conclusion that it's not terribly useful to 
most people, certainly not when it comes to them paying me money for what I 
do.

When plumbing goes wrong, people get sick and die.  Clean water flowing in 
and dirty water flowing out without a problem is a necessity for living.  If 
I get hit by a bus on my way to a gig, they play the in-store CD player that 
night.  When my sewer line breaks because a tree root has broken a pipe 
under the front yard, I need a lot of specialized information, tools, time 
and smelly effort to set things right again--or I pay someone else a 
thousand dollars to do it better and quicker than I can.  When people don't 
have any music, they turn on the radio and the problem's solved.  Music is 
incredibly easy to find, plumbing less so.  Thus the average plumber makes 
much more than the average musician."


Wow,  Travis,   your cyncism and lack of respect or existential self esteem 
for what you do is astonishing to me and hard to believe.

I'm proud to be a musician,  whether I'm paid well or not.   I'll do it 
until I die because I love it and value it myself.
I can't imagine living without music, frankly.

Maybe I"m reading you wrong,  but do I detect a large share of bitterness 
about your inability to make money from your music?

In my world,  I value artistry and creativity higher than almost anything, 
so I don't have any judgement of whether you can make money with your music 
or not.
Some of my favorite artists are NOT full time professional musicians.

  To assume, of course, is to make an ASS out of U and ME
so I could be way off base here, but I'm just curious about your response to 
the strong things I"ve just said.

Perplexed but still respectfully yours,

Rick 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 10:06:30 2008
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Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
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What Travis wrote seems rather familiar to me. Of course you canīt make huge
amounts of money from your own music -- especially when serving a niche
market -- but hey, anytime I play a concert somewhere I come home with a few
bucks more in my pocket and a few CDs less in my kitchen, so what? I do it
for the fun of it, and when you love doing it you wonīt bother whether it
pays back in huge amounts of money or not. Of course other jobs are paid a
lot better, or you have to pay a lot more to have someone else do a job you
canīt do yourself, but so what? "If you donīt do it for the love of it, why
would you do it at all?" as a friend of mine from England once said so
aptly.

I know this kind of cynism very well. When I decided to professionalise on
making music, I was sneered at by my former co-worker who thought I was
nuts, and that spending my time and my money on making albums was just
pointless, that making CD album releases would be "nothing but a prestigious
enterprise". Unfortunately, this attitude also reflected in his work ethics.
Need I mention that I now work all on my own?

The bad thing is that music is not assigned a specific value in its own
right. To most people, music seems to be just a mere commodity that kills
silence or drives away boredom or whatever. Thus, they are not willing to
pay much for music because they donīt believe that the process of actually
creating music takes time, effort, energy, and money in its own right. This
attitude is reflected on the internet where people just rip albums illegally
without paying for them. For a McDonaldīs bag full of shit they wouldnīt
hesitate to spend comparatively huge amounts of money on, but on music? Why?
It has no value at all, not even a nutritional... when asked they would
rather have music for free than pay for it. The "In Rainbows" campaign by
Radiohead was the best example, and were they not a well-established band
with a lot of faithful supporters, they would have earned *nothing* after
all, had it been up to those who got themselves the album for no money at
all.

If I took this as a yardstick for my own work ethics, Iīd have quit making
music long ago. Luckily, the older I get, the less I bother.

Stephen

____________________________________________________________________

"Ambition makes you look pretty ugly, kicking squealing Gucci little piggy."
(Thom Yorke/Radiohead -- "Paranoid Android")

Finally available: Stephen Parsick -- Traces of the Past Redux, reissued
with three previously unreleased bonus tracks. For more info please check
www.parsick.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rick Walker" <looppool@cruzio.com>
To: "LOOPERS DELIGHT (posting)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?


> Travis wrote:
> "What I do as a musician is very useful--to me.  Fifteen years of public
> performance has led me to the conclusion that it's not terribly useful to
> most people, certainly not when it comes to them paying me money for what
I
> do.
>
> When plumbing goes wrong, people get sick and die.  Clean water flowing in
> and dirty water flowing out without a problem is a necessity for living.
If
> I get hit by a bus on my way to a gig, they play the in-store CD player
that
> night.  When my sewer line breaks because a tree root has broken a pipe
> under the front yard, I need a lot of specialized information, tools, time
> and smelly effort to set things right again--or I pay someone else a
> thousand dollars to do it better and quicker than I can.  When people
don't
> have any music, they turn on the radio and the problem's solved.  Music is
> incredibly easy to find, plumbing less so.  Thus the average plumber makes
> much more than the average musician."
>
>
> Wow,  Travis,   your cyncism and lack of respect or existential self
esteem
> for what you do is astonishing to me and hard to believe.
>
> I'm proud to be a musician,  whether I'm paid well or not.   I'll do it
> until I die because I love it and value it myself.
> I can't imagine living without music, frankly.
>
> Maybe I"m reading you wrong,  but do I detect a large share of bitterness
> about your inability to make money from your music?
>
> In my world,  I value artistry and creativity higher than almost anything,
> so I don't have any judgement of whether you can make money with your
music
> or not.
> Some of my favorite artists are NOT full time professional musicians.
>
>   To assume, of course, is to make an ASS out of U and ME
> so I could be way off base here, but I'm just curious about your response
to
> the strong things I"ve just said.
>
> Perplexed but still respectfully yours,
>
> Rick

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 10:10:57 2008
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Late to the fun - I'd like to read that Lewis, too. Big thanks, IngoA

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 10:21:03 2008
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
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I'm sorry Rick, while I respect you immensely, I gotta come down with Travis
on this (who I think you've been a bit rude to), but maybe phrased
differently: people of limited means, as most people are, tend to spend most
of their money on things they perceive that they *have* to spend money on -
food, shelter, medical care, etc. Musicians are a category of discretionary
spending, so we tend to make less. I think Travis is using "useful" to mean
an "unavoidable expenditure".

Whether you respect what you do or not or are bitter or not about this
reality doesn't change it, and one shouldn't have to wear blinders in order
to be PC about this. Of course music has value. Of course musicians should
be well-compensated. Of course Bush should have been drawn and quartered 6
years ago. This is not a perfect world.

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 4:56 AM, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:

> Travis wrote:
> "What I do as a musician is very useful--to me.  Fifteen years of public
> performance has led me to the conclusion that it's not terribly useful to
> most people, certainly not when it comes to them paying me money for what I
> do.
>
> When plumbing goes wrong, people get sick and die.  Clean water flowing in
> and dirty water flowing out without a problem is a necessity for living.  If
> I get hit by a bus on my way to a gig, they play the in-store CD player that
> night.  When my sewer line breaks because a tree root has broken a pipe
> under the front yard, I need a lot of specialized information, tools, time
> and smelly effort to set things right again--or I pay someone else a
> thousand dollars to do it better and quicker than I can.  When people don't
> have any music, they turn on the radio and the problem's solved.  Music is
> incredibly easy to find, plumbing less so.  Thus the average plumber makes
> much more than the average musician."
>
>
> Wow,  Travis,   your cyncism and lack of respect or existential self
> esteem for what you do is astonishing to me and hard to believe.
>
> I'm proud to be a musician,  whether I'm paid well or not.   I'll do it
> until I die because I love it and value it myself.
> I can't imagine living without music, frankly.
>
> Maybe I"m reading you wrong,  but do I detect a large share of bitterness
> about your inability to make money from your music?
>
> In my world,  I value artistry and creativity higher than almost anything,
> so I don't have any judgement of whether you can make money with your music
> or not.
> Some of my favorite artists are NOT full time professional musicians.
>
>  To assume, of course, is to make an ASS out of U and ME
> so I could be way off base here, but I'm just curious about your response
> to the strong things I"ve just said.
>
> Perplexed but still respectfully yours,
>
> Rick
>

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I&#39;m sorry Rick, while I respect you immensely, I gotta come down with
Travis on this (who I think you&#39;ve been a bit rude to), but maybe
phrased differently: people of limited means, as most people are, tend
to spend most of their money on things they perceive that they *have*
to spend money on - food, shelter, medical care, etc. Musicians are a
category of discretionary spending, so we tend to make less. I think
Travis is using &quot;useful&quot; to mean an &quot;unavoidable expenditure&quot;.<br>
<br>Whether you respect what you do or not or are bitter or not about
this reality doesn&#39;t change it, and one shouldn&#39;t have to wear blinders
in order to be PC about this. Of course music has value. Of course
musicians should be well-compensated. Of course Bush should have been
drawn and quartered 6 years ago. This is not a perfect world.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 4:56 AM, Rick Walker &lt;<a href="mailto:looppool@cruzio.com">looppool@cruzio.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="Ih2E3d">Travis wrote:<br>
&quot;What I do as a musician is very useful--to me. &nbsp;Fifteen years of public performance has led me to the conclusion that it&#39;s not terribly useful to most people, certainly not when it comes to them paying me money for what I do.<br>

<br>
When plumbing goes wrong, people get sick and die. &nbsp;Clean water flowing in and dirty water flowing out without a problem is a necessity for living. &nbsp;If I get hit by a bus on my way to a gig, they play the in-store CD player that night. &nbsp;When my sewer line breaks because a tree root has broken a pipe under the front yard, I need a lot of specialized information, tools, time and smelly effort to set things right again--or I pay someone else a thousand dollars to do it better and quicker than I can. &nbsp;When people don&#39;t have any music, they turn on the radio and the problem&#39;s solved. &nbsp;Music is incredibly easy to find, plumbing less so. &nbsp;Thus the average plumber makes much more than the average musician.&quot;<br>

<br>
<br></div>
Wow, &nbsp;Travis, &nbsp; your cyncism and lack of respect or existential self esteem for what you do is astonishing to me and hard to believe.<br>
<br>
I&#39;m proud to be a musician, &nbsp;whether I&#39;m paid well or not. &nbsp; I&#39;ll do it until I die because I love it and value it myself.<br>
I can&#39;t imagine living without music, frankly.<br>
<br>
Maybe I&quot;m reading you wrong, &nbsp;but do I detect a large share of bitterness about your inability to make money from your music?<br>
<br>
In my world, &nbsp;I value artistry and creativity higher than almost anything, so I don&#39;t have any judgement of whether you can make money with your music or not.<br>
Some of my favorite artists are NOT full time professional musicians.<br>
<br>
&nbsp;To assume, of course, is to make an ASS out of U and ME<br>
so I could be way off base here, but I&#39;m just curious about your response to the strong things I&quot;ve just said.<br>
<br>
Perplexed but still respectfully yours,<br><font color="#888888">
<br>
Rick <br>
</font></blockquote></div><br>

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Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
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And I'll go one step further: in plumbing, you're not "competing" (for
attention, if nothing else) which 1/3 of the other kids on the block who all
grew up wanting to be plumbers. Now that we have a world in which the lines
between "serious amateur" (like me, for instance - someone dedicated for
life but not making a living at it or expecting to) and "college student
with academic pricing on a cool music sw package or two" is fading fast,
we'll soon be paying listeners instead of vice-versa.

If memory serves, a theme in PK Dick's "The Game Players of Titan" was such
an over-abundance of product and advertisers that *consumers* were the
valued commodity. I don't think we're so far from that in the music world. I
think we have to find a way to see this as an "explosion of creativity" and
trust (or perhaps help shape) the good things to come out of it.

And maybe it *is* a good thing if some of the corporate music structures
fall, and people are supported by the freely-given generosity of their fans
in appreciation of music that is freely-available. There *are* some people
supported by this model, though I fear that number will continue to be
small. But perhaps something new and better will rise from the ash heap of
the music industry. I know it's a vague hope, but it's the best I can do
right now.

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And I&#39;ll go one step further: in plumbing, you&#39;re not &quot;competing&quot; (for attention, if nothing else) which 1/3 of the other kids on the block who all grew up wanting to be plumbers. Now that we have a world in which the lines between &quot;serious amateur&quot; (like me, for instance - someone dedicated for life but not making a living at it or expecting to) and &quot;college student with academic pricing on a cool music sw package or two&quot; is fading fast, we&#39;ll soon be paying listeners instead of vice-versa. <br>
<br>If memory serves, a theme in PK Dick&#39;s &quot;The Game Players of Titan&quot; was such an over-abundance of product and advertisers that *consumers* were the valued commodity. I don&#39;t think we&#39;re so far from that in the music world. I think we have to find a way to see this as an &quot;explosion of creativity&quot; and trust (or perhaps help shape) the good things to come out of it.<br>
<br>And maybe it *is* a good thing if some of the corporate music structures fall, and people are supported by the freely-given generosity of their fans in appreciation of music that is freely-available. There *are* some people supported by this model, though I fear that number will continue to be small. But perhaps something new and better will rise from the ash heap of the music industry. I know it&#39;s a vague hope, but it&#39;s the best I can do right now.<br>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 11:05:07 2008
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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 04:05:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Tidwell <wedgehed@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
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There's a difference between doing something because
you love it & doing something to make money.

You can't put a price on a pursuit you engage in for
the love of it. However, once you decide to turn your
pursuit into a business, its value is whatever the
market is willing to pay.

You want to get paid? Try going to market with
something that people want to buy.

:)

No offense intended to anyone. 


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 11:17:15 2008
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From: jayrope looper's delight <jrploopers@kliklak.net>
Subject: Musicians need be passionate / was: Why SHOULDN't musicians be paid
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:57:26 +0200
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Hello all,
i post rarely, cause i am normally not into tech discussion.
Nevertheless, payment for musicians seems to be an international  
issue, and as TH has pointed out: The "market" is so flooded, that it  
is rather hard to get paid or get reasonably paid, or comparable to  
other professions invoking a similar amount of engagement. Per Boysen  
has pointed out a more luxurious situation, Berlin then, where i  
live, is somewhere in no-pay or not-much-pay-land - unless you pay  
the Jazz Festival, which still pays much minor to locals compared to  
what they pay to an average US-Jazzer playing here. So us Berliners  
like to go elsewhere, Scandinavia, Asia, Austria, Switzerland, France  
etc. always pay much better than here, UK are a mess, but fun, too.  
It's the transparent tattoo on your forehead saying "Berliner".  
Ridiculous, but exploitable.

More overview: I would suggest to make an anonymous collection of  
international musicians wages to get an overview, this is something  
for a social scientist maybe (anyone here?) - personally i could  
supply the web platform and some of teh necessary programming skills.

Unions: Is there a union for musicians, where you live? In the former  
GDR, the socialist part of divided Germany there existed such a  
thing, and everyone i meet, who happened to work under such  
conditions is still missing the good old times. Guaranteed wages,  
guaranteed amoung of monthly jobs. But themusic was mainly crap. And  
i grew up in the West instead...

Government funds: Germany sports a so-called "Artist health  
insurance". Very helpful in some cases, but i never get sick and they  
don't pay for new teeth ,-(
France has this great system of an unemployment insurance for  
musicians, given that you are a French resident (married i guess),  
and play at least 45 contracted shows per year. Some friends of mine  
live nicely on the base of that.
How is it in your country?
Canada's got loads grants and scholarships for Canadians working  
abroad i hear...

Do these funding ideas apply to you, when you DON'T have an academic  
degree in music or went to some acclaimed music school otherwise?
Here it only very rarely does.
As someone, who devotes his life to music (and family / no (inner)  
choice otherwise) you stay with your passion or give it up at some  
point. It's just a question of how much trouble you can or want to bare.
You might end up getting invited for dinner by your 9-to-5 friends  
regularly. They don't honor their passion as much as you do, but they  
happen to have a steady good income. That can be embarrassing, but  
nevertheless YOU are the doctor, who heals their souls. That service,  
if it works out nicely for the erm "client", deserves good payment of  
any imaginable kind.
That's not like going to Berkeley music school on family funding and  
joining the David Letterman show band right after. The equivalent of  
such a thing in Germany is just to das to mention and i do sometimes  
work for such a thing as a teacher. My job is funny & absurd: I  
supply one-on-one inspirational teaching to 20-25 year old music  
students, who are technically superb, but don't know why they didn't  
get into the plumbing business. You know, the identical clones of  
rock stars, who are bored of their own profession (Nah, they are  
really people usually).

Passion and profession: To me it was always both, doing music  
professionally to a certain extent since 1986, learned from the age  
of six, refusing piano teachers to make me rehearse bloody Bach  
again, instead insisting on = passion, when profession = in most cases.
This attitude (hello attitude thread) clearly pays out, as well as it  
does not.

It fully pays out on the respect side, once someone has told you  
somethign equally to "your music saved my life", which happened to me  
before. You wake up, the sould floats, it's springtime, the fluids  
are rising, there's a whistling melody and a rumbling beat: someone  
looks at you like "yeah, man, that's wonderful." This clearly "pays  
out."
On the professional side the this attitude pays out on rare  
occasions, special festival invitations, because you insist to stick  
to your passion, specialties, weirdnesses and get invited to perform  
exactly that. This can be very well paid.
All the rest is daily business. People asking for free mp3, club  
promoters asking for free shows, you pay your drinks yourself. That's  
part of the "deal".
I learned to insinst on payment and rather not play my hometown for a  
year, at least in ambivalent locations, if payment is missing or too  
low. Asking prices and higher prices is clearly a strategy to raise  
the respect level towards you in the long run, if you can survive the  
intermediate 25 years of suffering after you finished school.

So finally... uhm, TH has reminded us, that music is available for  
free everywhere today. This simply states, that if one delivers a  
service, that recorded music can easily replace, then one can't  
expect payment. History repeats itself here: Did you ever read about  
the massive loss of work for musicians, when sound in films was  
invented in the 1930's? Oh my, what a catastrophe - comparable to  
ipods, almost.

I strongly believe, that passion will always pay out in the long run.  
Passion is what makes the difference in your audience's ears. If you  
sound like the hifi in the bar, then no one today will give a damn.  
Even if passion does not lead to a material pay out it is still  
guaranteed to keep you sane.
So that's the difference YOU can make towards the quality of your art  
(not your technical skills).
The passionate plumber is the better plumber. Of course it is not  
easy to stay this course, but i do believe it is worth it. I  
appreciate you read this.

Maybe i fail for you life-wise with this attitude, music is such a  
personal and taste-bound issue, but:
Come join me at Donaufestival.at on May 2nd, midnight at Halle 2.  
I'll be playing a Repeater and still a Lexicon Jamman as a guest for  
Vedette's world live premiere (myspace.com/vedettemusic).
= end of ad =

Salud from Berlin, jrp

On 16.04.2008, at 10:16, Loopers-Delight-d-request@loopers- 
delight.com wrote:
> Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?

with love from New Weird Berlin ,-)
---
jayrope
http://kliklak.net
http://aircushionfinish.kliklak.net
http://touchdonttouch.com
http://jayropinsky.kliklak.net
== wuh oh! ==
http://txp.kliklak.net/kliklak/kliklakofonie





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Subject: Re: attitude(how much to ask for)
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:41:23 -0400
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Luckily my agents do this for me. Thats why I pay them. Most paying  
gigs round these parts use booking agents exclusively. The venues find  
it way more convenient to just have someone else do it and not have  
lots of scruffy musicians calling them.


On Apr 16, 2008, at 12:54 AM, Daryl Shawn wrote:

> I'm dealing with exactly this question just now. The owner of a  
> modest coffeeshop, where I fully expected to play for tips, asked me  
> "What do you charge?" It seems so incredibly arbitrary what I would  
> choose to charge in that situation - as opposed to, say, a nice  
> restaurant where there's obviously a good amount of money coming in  
> and so I actually do ask for what I think I'm worth - that I was a  
> little baffled. I really wanted to play there, mainly as I have  
> friends in that city and want to present my stuff to them, and this  
> sort of coffeeshop nearly always means playing for tips. I didn't  
> want to offer to play for free in a situation where money is  
> apparently typical (thus dragging down the local market - I was  
> mindful of the discussion here!) - and didn't want to price myself  
> out of the gig, so I ended up asking for about half what I'd charge  
> a restaurant...and am still waiting to hear back from him.
>
> I'd love to know what other people do in a situation like this. You  
> want the gig, and would take anything, but want to hit some mythical  
> average you can only guess at.
>
> Daryl Shawn
> www.swanwelder.com
> www.chinapaintingmusic.com
>
>> Just curious friends,
>> so when you deal with club owners or venues how do you
>> determine then how much you should be paid,or how do
>> you figure out the economics of the city,town or venue
>> you are going to play beforehand?I know this is all
>> based on negotiation but where do you start and stop?
>> cheers
>> Luis
>>
>>
>

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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 06:57:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: margaret noble <margaretnoble2000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Sound Art: Call for Recorded Works
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Chicago Cultural Center Presents: 
This is Not a Test: The Chicago Sound Experience
Curated by Margaret Noble

Calling all audio and recording artists to retell and reproduce the Chicago experience through place, time and culture in audio recordings. Abstract sound, field recordings, text based/spoken word, and radio pieces alike will be considered.

These works will be presented at the Jay Pritzker Pavilion
Aug. 11th, 2008 from 6PM -9PM
This is a free event for the public.

About The Jay Pritzker Pavilion:
Frank Gehry, winner of the National Medal of Art, applied his signature style to this revolutionary outdoor concert venue. The Pavilion stands 120-feet high, with a billowing headdress of brushed stainless steel ribbons that frame the stage opening and connect to an overhead trellis of crisscrossing steel pipes. The trellis supports the sound system, which spans the 4,000 fixed seats and the Great Lawn, which accommodates an additional 7,000 people.

This state-of-the-art sound system, the first of its kind in the country, was designed to mimic the acoustics of an indoor concert hall by distributing enhanced sound equally over both the fixed seats and the lawn.

Submission Guidelines:

This is an unpaid commission and offered as a free concert to the public.

Maximum Length: 10 minutes (no minimum length).

Recorded works submitted by mp3 through email or CD through regular post.

Open to all artists l(Chicago locals or international)

Up to 3 submissions per artist

No submission fee

Please include the following information:
Artist Name:
Location:
Category: Abstract, Field Recordings, Narrative/Text Based Works, other
100 word description of piece(s):

Deadline for submissions: June 15th, 2008 


Email MP3 submissions and questions to: 

margaretnoble2000@yahoo.com

Send hard-copy materials to:

Margaret Noble
High Tech High Media Arts
2230 Truxton Road
Third Floor
San Diego, CA
92106





      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><br>Chicago Cultural Center Presents: <br>This is Not a Test: The Chicago Sound Experience<br>Curated by Margaret Noble<br><br>Calling all audio and recording artists to retell and reproduce the Chicago experience through place, time and culture in audio recordings. Abstract sound, field recordings, text based/spoken word, and radio pieces alike will be considered.<br><br>These works will be presented at the Jay Pritzker Pavilion<br>Aug. 11th, 2008 from 6PM -9PM<br>This is a free event for the public.<br><br>About The Jay Pritzker Pavilion:<br>Frank Gehry, winner of the National Medal of Art, applied his signature style to this revolutionary outdoor concert venue. The Pavilion stands 120-feet high, with a billowing headdress of brushed
 stainless steel ribbons that frame the stage opening and connect to an overhead trellis of crisscrossing steel pipes. The trellis supports the sound system, which spans the 4,000 fixed seats and the Great Lawn, which accommodates an additional 7,000 people.<br><br>This state-of-the-art sound system, the first of its kind in the country, was designed to mimic the acoustics of an indoor concert hall by distributing enhanced sound equally over both the fixed seats and the lawn.<br><br>Submission Guidelines:<br><br>This is an unpaid commission and offered as a free concert to the public.<br><br>Maximum Length: 10 minutes (no minimum length).<br><br>Recorded works submitted by mp3 through email or CD through regular post.<br><br>Open to all artists l(Chicago locals or international)<br><br>Up to 3 submissions per artist<br><br>No submission fee<br><br>Please include the following information:<br>Artist Name:<br>Location:<br>Category: Abstract, Field
 Recordings, Narrative/Text Based Works, other<br>100 word description of piece(s):<br><br>Deadline for submissions: June 15th, 2008 <br><br><br>Email MP3 submissions and questions to: <br><br>margaretnoble2000@yahoo.com<br><br>Send hard-copy materials to:<br><br>Margaret Noble<br>High Tech High Media Arts<br>2230 Truxton Road<br>Third Floor<br>San Diego, CA<br>92106<br><br></div></div><br>



      <hr size=1>Be a better friend, newshound, and 
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 14:31:46 2008
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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 07:31:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: attitude(how much to ask for)
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wow...it seems the live music situation in the U.S.
its gotten really depressing, guess i am lucky to be
here.My brother who is a bass player and lives in
southern california also tells me how musicians only
get one drink(and he is with a very well established
band who always pack the house)and in some places they
dont have the freedom to go to the bar where the
public goes and ask for an alcoholic drink even if
they want to pay for it,and they are asked to eat in
the back of the restaurant away from the publics
eye.He also tells me that at some bars musicians have
to even pay to join a jam session!
are perhaps musicians at fault for this...?
Here sometimes you get paid even beforehand,with my
quartet i rarely go under 1000.-eur.free food and
drink(as much as you want) is always included,and you
can sit ,eat,or order a drink just like anybody else
does anywhere you want,but yes you do have to pay your
taxes every once in a while!
cheers
Luis




--- Travis Hartnett <travishartnett@gmail.com> wrote:

> My experience
> 
> There's a huge amount of variables involved.  For a
> coffeehouse type gig in
> the city where I live, the "good" places pay $50
> plus free food and whatever
> tips and CD sales you can muster up.  For the "bad"
> coffeehouses, it may
> only be tips and CD's and a discount on the food.
> 
> For weddings and corporate gigs, about $75-100/hour,
> starting from when I
> leave the driveway until I return.
> 
> Band gigs in bars--always some bullshit formula
> involving percentages of the
> bar, the door, less the soundman and doorman fees
> which amounts to $20-80
> takehome for the entire band.
> 
> For bars and cafes, the deals are usually "take it
> or leave it"--the venue
> offers you something, and are usually completely
> unwilling to negotiate.
> 
> TH
> 
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 9:32 PM, L.A. Angulo
> <labaloops@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > Just curious friends,
> > so when you deal with club owners or venues how do
> you
> > determine then how much you should be paid,or how
> do
> > you figure out the economics of the city,town or
> venue
> > you are going to play beforehand?I know this is
> all
> > based on negotiation but where do you start and
> stop?
> > cheers
> > Luis
> >
> >
> >
> 


www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:18:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: echoplex price kaos?
To: Loopers Delight <loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com>
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wha?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigation?q=echoplex&st=

list prices are also different as well?

www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 15:39:03 2008
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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:39:01 -0700
From: "Travis Hartnett" <travishartnett@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: echoplex price kaos?
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The two on the bottom are returned "blem" units which were purchased at the
old list price.  Blems are resold at a fixed discount from the list price of
when they were purchased.

The middle two have been sitting around on a shelf for a while and are still
priced at the old list price.

The first two listed were purchased by MF from Gibson as when the EDP was
discontinued, and are being blown out at something closer to list.

TH

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 8:18 AM, L.A. Angulo <labaloops@yahoo.com> wrote:

> wha?
>
> http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigation?q=echoplex&st=
>
> list prices are also different as well?
>
> www.myspace.com/luisangulocom
>
>
>
>  ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>

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The two on the bottom are returned &quot;blem&quot; units which were purchased at the old list price.&nbsp; Blems are resold at a fixed discount from the list price of when they were purchased.<br><br>The middle two have been sitting around on a shelf for a while and are still priced at the old list price.<br>
<br>The first two listed were purchased by MF from Gibson as when the EDP was discontinued, and are being blown out at something closer to list.<br><br>TH<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 8:18 AM, L.A. Angulo &lt;<a href="mailto:labaloops@yahoo.com">labaloops@yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">wha?<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigation?q=echoplex&amp;st=" target="_blank">http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigation?q=echoplex&amp;st=</a><br>
<br>
list prices are also different as well?<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.myspace.com/luisangulocom" target="_blank">www.myspace.com/luisangulocom</a><br>
<div class="WgoR0d"><br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;____________________________________________________________________________________<br>
Be a better friend, newshound, and<br>
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. &nbsp;Try it now. &nbsp;<a href="http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ" target="_blank">http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ</a><br>
<br>
</div></blockquote></div><br>

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From: "murkie" <sinister_footwear@yahoo.com>
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Subject: RE: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:12:25 -0400
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Literally moments ago I came across this quote from composer Phil Kline
(whose Zippo Songs is now in heavy rotation here and our own Mr. Reynolds
was a major force in):
 
"These days choosing such an insecure income source as music is in itself a
revolutionary act. How much more strikingly can an intelligent person opt
out of popular value systems? I do what I do because, really and truly, I
need to."  - Phil Kline, 2004
 
m.c.
 
 <http://www.twistedapplerecords.com/> 
Mark Christensen
 <http://www.twistedapplerecords.com> http://www.twistedapplerecords.com
http://www.stonedocumentmusic.com
 

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3314" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D840210716-16042008>Literally moments ago I came across this =
quote from=20
composer Phil Kline (whose Zippo Songs is now in heavy rotation here and =
our own=20
Mr. Reynolds was a major force in):</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D840210716-16042008></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D840210716-16042008>"These days choosing such an insecure income =
source as=20
music is in itself a<BR>revolutionary act. How much more strikingly can =
an=20
intelligent person opt<BR>out of popular value systems? I do what I do =
because,=20
really and truly, I<BR>need to."&nbsp; - Phil Kline, =
2004</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D840210716-16042008></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D840210716-16042008>m.c.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D840210716-16042008></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN =
class=3D840210716-16042008>
<DIV align=3Dleft>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.twistedapplerecords.com/"></A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><STRONG><FONT face=3DCourier color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Mark=20
Christensen</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><A href=3D"http://www.twistedapplerecords.com"><FONT=20
size=3D2>http://www.twistedapplerecords.com</FONT></A></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D840210716-16042008><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.stonedocumentmusic.com">http://www.stonedocumentmusic.=
com</A></FONT></SPAN></DIV><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 17:05:02 2008
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	<loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com>, lew judd <lewrisingsun@hotmail.com>,
	steve <steven@tuninghawaii.com>
Subject: garage band
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:05:01 -0700
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  They even imitate us when we use things that are trash. I love making mus=
ic from junk,But  a car company dismantling a new vehicle to make musical j=
unk sculptures for an ad campaign really annoys me.  Nothing new though,I f=
ound magazine ads from the 30s that appropriated dada and surrealism.=20

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/events/article-23478748-details/Garage+band+g=
oes+on+the+road/article.do















"A human being is a part of a whole, called by us _universe_, a part
limited in time and space.  He experiences himself, his thoughts and
feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical
delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for
us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few
persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this
prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living
creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."    Einstein




_________________________________________________________________
Pack up or back up=96use SkyDrive to transfer files or keep extra copies. L=
earn how.
http://www.windowslive.com/skydrive/overview.html?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_Refre=
sh_skydrive_packup_042008=

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<body class=3D'hmmessage'>
&nbsp; They even imitate us when we use things that are trash. I love makin=
g music from junk,But&nbsp; a car company dismantling a new vehicle to make=
 musical junk sculptures for an ad campaign really annoys me.&nbsp; Nothing=
 new though,I found magazine ads from the 30s that appropriated dada and su=
rrealism. <br><br>http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/events/article-23478748-det=
ails/Garage+band+goes+on+the+road/article.do<br><br><span class=3D"body"></=
span><span class=3D"EC_EC_EC_EC_EC_bodybold"></span><br><br><br><br><br><br=
><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><ul><li>"A human being is a part of a whol=
e, called by us _universe_, a part
limited in time and space.  He experiences himself, his thoughts and
feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical
delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for
us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few
persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this
prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living
creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Einstei=
n<br></li></ul><font face=3D"New York,Times New Roman"><br></font><br><br><=
a href=3D"http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/l/louisarmst163740.html"=
 target=3D"_blank"></a><br /><hr />Pack up or back up=96use SkyDrive to tra=
nsfer files or keep extra copies. <a href=3D'http://www.windowslive.com/sky=
drive/overview.html?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_skydrive_packup_042008' tar=
get=3D'_new'>Learn how.</a></body>
</html>=

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 17:35:22 2008
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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:35:20 -0700
From: "Travis Hartnett" <travishartnett@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
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No, I have a lot of respect for what I do--what I don't have is a lot of
money for doing it.

Music is something that exists in two worlds, one of which is the "world of
commerce".  In that world, it has a property which I'll call "$value$",
which measures how much money can be made off it.  In the other world, it
has a property which I'll call "!value!".

The two worlds are NOT directly coupled.  !value! does not directly
correlate to $value$.
Musicians often wish that it did, yet secretly fear that it may.

For me, the easiest way to remain a happy musician is not to worry much
about the $value$ of my music, and the simplest way to do that is to earn my
living doing something else and devote my other time, and the resources that
my job brings to making music.  So I've spent years of playing between one
and two hundred gigs a year in a variety of local venues in several cities,
and it's based on this experience that I arrived at my view of the $worth$
of music.  Even my own $worth$ in a non-fixed value--at a cafe gig I'm
$worth$, at most, $50.  At a wedding the next day, I'm $worth$ $500.  The
next week I open for someone in a larger club and I'm $worth$ $100.  It's
the same music at all three events, but the monetary compensation is all
over the place (and never enough for the manner in which I prefer--indoors
and with health insurance...).  Ironically, experience suggests that the
!worth! of the wedding gig, to me, will be the lowest of the three.

And no, I'm not bitter about not being able to make a living making music.
"Bitterness" is a product of being denied something to which you are
entitled, and I don't believe that anyone is entitled to make a living.
Should they be?  Maybe, in the most perfect of all perfect !worlds!, but in
the $world$, the answer  is "no".  So, musicians, nurses, teachers,
plumbers, lawyers--all you can do is fly your flag and see if anyone rallies
to it.

TH



On 4/16/08, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Wow,  Travis,   your cyncism and lack of respect or existential self
> esteem for what you do is astonishing to me and hard to believe.
>
> I'm proud to be a musician,  whether I'm paid well or not.   I'll do it
> until I die because I love it and value it myself.
> I can't imagine living without music, frankly.
>
> Maybe I"m reading you wrong,  but do I detect a large share of bitterness
> about your inability to make money from your music?
>
> In my world,  I value artistry and creativity higher than almost anything,
> so I don't have any judgement of whether you can make money with your music
> or not.
> Some of my favorite artists are NOT full time professional musicians.
>
>
>

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No, I have a lot of respect for what I do--what I don&#39;t have is a lot o=
f money for doing it.&nbsp; <br><br>Music is something that exists in two w=
orlds, one of which is the &quot;world of commerce&quot;.&nbsp; In that wor=
ld, it has a property which I&#39;ll call &quot;$value$&quot;, which measur=
es how much money can be made off it.&nbsp; In the other world, it has a pr=
operty which I&#39;ll call &quot;!value!&quot;.&nbsp; <br>
<br>The two worlds are NOT directly coupled.&nbsp; !value! does not directl=
y correlate to $value$.&nbsp; <br>Musicians often wish that it did, yet sec=
retly fear that it may.<br><br>For me, the easiest way to remain a happy mu=
sician is not to worry much about the $value$ of my music, and the simplest=
 way to do that is to earn my living doing something else and devote my oth=
er time, and the resources that my job brings to making music.&nbsp; So I&#=
39;ve spent years of playing between one and two hundred gigs a year in a v=
ariety of local venues in several cities, and it&#39;s based on this experi=
ence that I arrived at my view of the $worth$ of music.&nbsp; Even my own $=
worth$ in a non-fixed value--at a cafe gig I&#39;m $worth$, at most, $50.&n=
bsp; At a wedding the next day, I&#39;m $worth$ $500.&nbsp; The next week I=
 open for someone in a larger club and I&#39;m $worth$ $100.&nbsp; It&#39;s=
 the same music at all three events, but the monetary compensation is all o=
ver the place (and never enough for the manner in which I prefer--indoors a=
nd with health insurance...).&nbsp; Ironically, experience suggests that th=
e !worth! of the wedding gig, to me, will be the lowest of the three.<br>
<br>And no, I&#39;m not bitter about not being able to make a living making=
 music.&nbsp; &quot;Bitterness&quot; is a product of being denied something=
 to which you are entitled, and I don&#39;t believe that anyone is entitled=
 to make a living.&nbsp; Should they be?&nbsp; Maybe, in the most perfect o=
f all perfect !worlds!, but in the $world$, the answer&nbsp; is &quot;no&qu=
ot;.&nbsp; So, musicians, nurses, teachers, plumbers, lawyers--all you can =
do is fly your flag and see if anyone rallies to it.&nbsp; <br>
<br>TH<br><br><br><br><div><span class=3D"gmail_quote">On 4/16/08, <b class=
=3D"gmail_sendername">Rick Walker</b> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:looppool@cruzio=
.com">looppool@cruzio.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0=
pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<span class=3D"q"><br>
<br>
<br></span>
Wow, &nbsp;Travis, &nbsp; your cyncism and lack of respect or existential s=
elf esteem for what you do is astonishing to me and hard to believe.<br>
<br>
I&#39;m proud to be a musician, &nbsp;whether I&#39;m paid well or not. &nb=
sp; I&#39;ll do it until I die because I love it and value it myself.<br>
I can&#39;t imagine living without music, frankly.<br>
<br>
Maybe I&quot;m reading you wrong, &nbsp;but do I detect a large share of bi=
tterness about your inability to make money from your music?<br>
<br>
In my world, &nbsp;I value artistry and creativity higher than almost anyth=
ing, so I don&#39;t have any judgement of whether you can make money with y=
our music or not.<br>
Some of my favorite artists are NOT full time professional musicians.<br>
<br><span class=3D"sg"><br>
</span></blockquote></div><br>

------=_Part_6305_982867.1208367321007--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 17:46:25 2008
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Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:46:20 -0500
From: Daryl Shawn <highhorse@mhorse.com>
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This is really well put, Travis...it corresponds closely to my thoughts 
on this whole shebang. Nice to differentiate !worth! and $worth$.

We should come up with universal units for !worth!.

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com

> No, I have a lot of respect for what I do--what I don't have is a lot 
> of money for doing it. 
>
> Music is something that exists in two worlds, one of which is the 
> "world of commerce".  In that world, it has a property which I'll call 
> "$value$", which measures how much money can be made off it.  In the 
> other world, it has a property which I'll call "!value!". 
>
> The two worlds are NOT directly coupled.  !value! does not directly 
> correlate to $value$. 
> Musicians often wish that it did, yet secretly fear that it may.
>
> For me, the easiest way to remain a happy musician is not to worry 
> much about the $value$ of my music, and the simplest way to do that is 
> to earn my living doing something else and devote my other time, and 
> the resources that my job brings to making music.  So I've spent years 
> of playing between one and two hundred gigs a year in a variety of 
> local venues in several cities, and it's based on this experience that 
> I arrived at my view of the $worth$ of music.  Even my own $worth$ in 
> a non-fixed value--at a cafe gig I'm $worth$, at most, $50.  At a 
> wedding the next day, I'm $worth$ $500.  The next week I open for 
> someone in a larger club and I'm $worth$ $100.  It's the same music at 
> all three events, but the monetary compensation is all over the place 
> (and never enough for the manner in which I prefer--indoors and with 
> health insurance...).  Ironically, experience suggests that the 
> !worth! of the wedding gig, to me, will be the lowest of the three.
>
> And no, I'm not bitter about not being able to make a living making 
> music.  "Bitterness" is a product of being denied something to which 
> you are entitled, and I don't believe that anyone is entitled to make 
> a living.  Should they be?  Maybe, in the most perfect of all perfect 
> !worlds!, but in the $world$, the answer  is "no".  So, musicians, 
> nurses, teachers, plumbers, lawyers--all you can do is fly your flag 
> and see if anyone rallies to it. 
>
> TH

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 17:52:51 2008
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From: Rev Fever <revfever@ubergadget.com>
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In general, I cannot stand commercial advertisements, which is one of  
the main reasons why I gave up watching any TV over 20 years ago,
(and don't regret one minute of that decision, either) but I think  
what this is one of the *better* uses for an automobile. :-)

Cars mostly suck, IMO.

-Rev. Fever


On Apr 16, 2008, at 10:05 AM, samba - wrote:

>   They even imitate us when we use things that are trash. I love  
> making music from junk,But  a car company dismantling a new vehicle  
> to make musical junk sculptures for an ad campaign really annoys  
> me.  Nothing new though,I found magazine ads from the 30s that  
> appropriated dada and surrealism.
>
> http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/events/article-23478748-details/Garage 
> +band+goes+on+the+road/article.do
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
In general, I cannot stand commercial advertisements, which is one of =
the main reasons why I gave up watching any TV over 20 years =
ago,<div>(and don't regret one minute of that decision, either)=A0but I =
think what this is one of the *better* uses for an automobile. :-) =A0 =
=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Cars mostly suck, =
IMO.<div><br></div><div>-Rev. Fever</div><div><br><div><br><div><html>On =
Apr 16, 2008, at 10:05 AM, samba - wrote:</html><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><p =
style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica" =
size=3D"4" style=3D"font: 13.0px Helvetica">=A0 They even imitate us =
when we use things that are trash. I love making music from junk,But=A0 =
a car company dismantling a new vehicle to make musical junk sculptures =
for an ad campaign really annoys me.=A0 Nothing new though,I found =
magazine ads from the 30s that appropriated dada and surrealism.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span></font></p> <p style=3D"margin: =
0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 13.0px Helvetica; min-height: =
16.0px"><br></p> <p style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font =
face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"4" style=3D"font: 13.0px Helvetica"><a =
href=3D"http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/events/article-23478748-details/Gara=
ge+band+goes+on+the+road/article.do">http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/events/=
article-23478748-details/Garage+band+goes+on+the+road/article.do</a></font=
></p> <p style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 13.0px =
Helvetica; min-height: 16.0px"><br></p> <p style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px =
0.0px 0.0px; font: 13.0px Helvetica; min-height: 16.0px"><br></p> <p =
style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 13.0px Helvetica; =
min-height: 16.0px"><br></p> <p style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px =
0.0px; font: 13.0px Helvetica; min-height: 16.0px"><br></p> <p =
style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 13.0px Helvetica; =
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style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 13.0px Helvetica; =
min-height: 16.0px"><br></p> =
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></body></html>=

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!worth! is a indicator of Quality, and is unquantifiable.
While the desire to do so is understandable, the quest to determine
"universal units" for !worth! is what produced $worth$.

As some comedian said: "So, the Y2K problem.  Aren't terms like "Y2K" what
got us into this mess in the first place?"

TH

On 4/16/08, Daryl Shawn <highhorse@mhorse.com> wrote:
>
> This is really well put, Travis...it corresponds closely to my thoughts on
> this whole shebang. Nice to differentiate !worth! and $worth$.
>
> We should come up with universal units for !worth!.
>
>
>

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!worth! is a indicator of Quality, and is unquantifiable.&nbsp; <br>While the desire to do so is understandable, the quest to determine &quot;universal units&quot; for !worth! is what produced $worth$.<br><br>As some comedian said: &quot;So, the Y2K problem.&nbsp; Aren&#39;t terms like &quot;Y2K&quot; what got us into this mess in the first place?&quot;<br>
<br>TH<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 4/16/08, <b class="gmail_sendername">Daryl Shawn</b> &lt;<a href="mailto:highhorse@mhorse.com">highhorse@mhorse.com</a>&gt; wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
This is really well put, Travis...it corresponds closely to my thoughts on this whole shebang. Nice to differentiate !worth! and $worth$.<br>
<br>
We should come up with universal units for !worth!.<span class="q"><br>
<br><br></span></blockquote></div><br>

------=_Part_6395_29543741.1208368421606--

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I just picked up Ravi Shankar's "My Life. My Music" in which he describes g=
etting up at 5.30am to start practicing for a few hours until he meets w/ h=
is guru and practices for another 3 to 8 hours. These musicians and artists=
 grew up in the days of the 'court' sponsored artist--where a wealthy patro=
n supported the arts. We should be so lucky. For most of us it is a labor o=
f love that rarely allows to live at the means we'd like --that is, earning=
 enough to buy the toys and tools to make us better artists/craftspeople. I=
 look at that too many things I'm involved in--music, martial arts, fine ar=
ts, and writing and think that the only thing I'd cut out of my chaotic and=
 crazy life is my job with child welfare--which allows me to purchase the t=
ools of my artistic endeavors.=20
I have also been playing for belly dancers for the past few years and makin=
g more money at it than I ever made in 30+ years of playing ( and I'm not c=
ounting the first 10 years of learning my instrument) In one case, we play =
at a posh spa that frequently gives us credit --$125.00 towards whatever--m=
assage, etc. I look at it as playing music for my wife's birthday/Xmas pres=
ents. It's not fully the music I want to create but does give me the satisf=
action of being a 'working musician.'> From: looppool@cruzio.com> To: Loope=
rs-Delight@loopers-delight.com> Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be pai=
d?> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 01:56:15 -0700> > Travis wrote:> "What I do as a=
 musician is very useful--to me. Fifteen years of public > performance has =
led me to the conclusion that it's not terribly useful to > most people, ce=
rtainly not when it comes to them paying me money for what I > do.> > When =
plumbing goes wrong, people get sick and die. Clean water flowing in > and =
dirty water flowing out without a problem is a necessity for living. If > I=
 get hit by a bus on my way to a gig, they play the in-store CD player that=
 > night. When my sewer line breaks because a tree root has broken a pipe >=
 under the front yard, I need a lot of specialized information, tools, time=
 > and smelly effort to set things right again--or I pay someone else a > t=
housand dollars to do it better and quicker than I can. When people don't >=
 have any music, they turn on the radio and the problem's solved. Music is =
> incredibly easy to find, plumbing less so. Thus the average plumber makes=
 > much more than the average musician."> > > Wow, Travis, your cyncism and=
 lack of respect or existential self esteem > for what you do is astonishin=
g to me and hard to believe.> > I'm proud to be a musician, whether I'm pai=
d well or not. I'll do it > until I die because I love it and value it myse=
lf.> I can't imagine living without music, frankly.> > Maybe I"m reading yo=
u wrong, but do I detect a large share of bitterness > about your inability=
 to make money from your music?> > In my world, I value artistry and creati=
vity higher than almost anything, > so I don't have any judgement of whethe=
r you can make money with your music > or not.> Some of my favorite artists=
 are NOT full time professional musicians.> > To assume, of course, is to m=
ake an ASS out of U and ME> so I could be way off base here, but I'm just c=
urious about your response to > the strong things I"ve just said.> > Perple=
xed but still respectfully yours,> > Rick >=20
_________________________________________________________________
Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM=
_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_042008=

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<html>
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FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma
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</head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'>
I just picked up Ravi Shankar's "My Life. My Music" in which he describes g=
etting up at 5.30am to start practicing for a few hours until he meets w/ h=
is&nbsp;guru and practices for another 3 to 8 hours.&nbsp;These musicians a=
nd artists grew up in the days of the 'court' sponsored artist--where a wea=
lthy patron supported the arts. We should be so lucky. For most of us it is=
 a labor of love that rarely allows to live at the means we'd like --that i=
s, earning enough to buy the toys and tools to make us better artists/craft=
speople. I look at that too many things I'm involved in--music, martial art=
s, fine arts, and writing and think that the only thing I'd cut out of my c=
haotic and crazy life is my job with child welfare--which allows me to purc=
hase the tools of my artistic endeavors. <BR>
I have also&nbsp;been playing for belly dancers for the past few years and =
making more money at it than I ever made in 30+ years of playing ( and I'm =
not counting the first 10 years of learning my instrument) In&nbsp;one case=
, we play at a posh spa that frequently gives us credit --$125.00 towards w=
hatever--massage, etc. I look at it as&nbsp;playing music for my wife's bir=
thday/Xmas presents.&nbsp;It's not fully the music I want to create but doe=
s give me the satisfaction of being a 'working musician.'<BR><BR>&gt; From:=
 looppool@cruzio.com<BR>&gt; To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<BR>&gt=
; Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?<BR>&gt; Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2=
008 01:56:15 -0700<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Travis wrote:<BR>&gt; "What I do as a m=
usician is very useful--to me. Fifteen years of public <BR>&gt; performance=
 has led me to the conclusion that it's not terribly useful to <BR>&gt; mos=
t people, certainly not when it comes to them paying me money for what I <B=
R>&gt; do.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; When plumbing goes wrong, people get sick and d=
ie. Clean water flowing in <BR>&gt; and dirty water flowing out without a p=
roblem is a necessity for living. If <BR>&gt; I get hit by a bus on my way =
to a gig, they play the in-store CD player that <BR>&gt; night. When my sew=
er line breaks because a tree root has broken a pipe <BR>&gt; under the fro=
nt yard, I need a lot of specialized information, tools, time <BR>&gt; and =
smelly effort to set things right again--or I pay someone else a <BR>&gt; t=
housand dollars to do it better and quicker than I can. When people don't <=
BR>&gt; have any music, they turn on the radio and the problem's solved. Mu=
sic is <BR>&gt; incredibly easy to find, plumbing less so. Thus the average=
 plumber makes <BR>&gt; much more than the average musician."<BR>&gt; <BR>&=
gt; <BR>&gt; Wow, Travis, your cyncism and lack of respect or existential s=
elf esteem <BR>&gt; for what you do is astonishing to me and hard to believ=
e.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'm proud to be a musician, whether I'm paid well or no=
t. I'll do it <BR>&gt; until I die because I love it and value it myself.<B=
R>&gt; I can't imagine living without music, frankly.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Mayb=
e I"m reading you wrong, but do I detect a large share of bitterness <BR>&g=
t; about your inability to make money from your music?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In =
my world, I value artistry and creativity higher than almost anything, <BR>=
&gt; so I don't have any judgement of whether you can make money with your =
music <BR>&gt; or not.<BR>&gt; Some of my favorite artists are NOT full tim=
e professional musicians.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; To assume, of course, is to make=
 an ASS out of U and ME<BR>&gt; so I could be way off base here, but I'm ju=
st curious about your response to <BR>&gt; the strong things I"ve just said=
.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Perplexed but still respectfully yours,<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;=
 Rick <BR>&gt; <BR><BR><br /><hr />Use video conversation to talk face-to-f=
ace with Windows Live Messenger. <a href=3D'http://www.windowslive.com/mess=
enger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_042=
008' target=3D'_new'>Get started!</a></body>
</html>=

--_6f27152b-9877-49ed-88d1-65612bd3f1f1_--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 18:13:41 2008
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From: Daryl Shawn <highhorse@mhorse.com>
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Nice rejoinder. I dig the point. I've certainly been in musical 
situations where the !worth! was higher than at other times, but perhaps 
it's pointless/impossible to compare.

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com

> !worth! is a indicator of Quality, and is unquantifiable. 
> While the desire to do so is understandable, the quest to determine 
> "universal units" for !worth! is what produced $worth$.
>
> As some comedian said: "So, the Y2K problem.  Aren't terms like "Y2K" 
> what got us into this mess in the first place?"
>
> TH
>
> On 4/16/08, *Daryl Shawn* <highhorse@mhorse.com 
> <mailto:highhorse@mhorse.com>> wrote:
>
>     This is really well put, Travis...it corresponds closely to my
>     thoughts on this whole shebang. Nice to differentiate !worth! and
>     $worth$.
>
>     We should come up with universal units for !worth!.
>
>
>

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From: phillip wilson <phillwilson@hotmail.com>
To: <loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 20:22:40 +0000
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Wow, Im loving this thread.
=20
It took me a good while to pluck up the nerve to actually write my angle fo=
r fear of offending anyone and once posted I watched the mails continue rol=
ling in for a little while before i decided to test the water of reaction.
Over all some massivly interesting points on all sides. I  will never stop =
being amazed at this lists ability to expand my horizons of thought.
I find the line of why shouldn't musicians be valued like plumbers etc very=
 interesting, I think my way of creating the deviding line has nothing to d=
o with the "opperator" end of the argument (startup costs/i needed X years =
practice/ my equipment cost =A3z) but instead focus's on the "user" end.. .=
 stepping out of my theoretical "lets make music a free part of our  collec=
ted human cultural heritige" stance and back into the real world...I do agr=
ee with whoever said that if someone enjoyed a performance they morally cou=
ld do something to  show gratitude but even this is USER generated and a ca=
nny musician will do everything they can to make this transaction easy ..if=
 they loved you and would listen to you round the house...have a CD ready f=
or them to buy, if they would come and see you again, have a gig list to ha=
nd if you have a cool image they would buy into have badges/tshirts etc but=
 even at this stage of making yourself a product to some extent... you are =
still ENTERTAINMENT
=20
ok I know this is a very severe thing to say, and believe me , i have paid,=
 I got a 2:1 in fine art rather then a predicted 1st after I took on my fin=
e art lecturer over the matter of art's value, I came at it from my "Its br=
illiant, its important TO US, it CAN change the feelings and moods of other=
s...but its not ESSENTIAL, its not curing cancer" point of view. anyway lon=
g story short, I exhiled myself with my "attitude" from my teacher and some=
 students, although others did side with me (we did a joint end of year sho=
w called The Realists hehe)=20
=20
Anyway, i digress, but I hope you see my point, music is the single most im=
portant thing in my life, I always have music on at work, as i travel, at h=
ome etc and I love sharing my music with others...however if it came to the=
 line I could LIVE without it, in the litteral sense..if  money was tight a=
nd I had to get medical treatment or the basement was flooded or the car ha=
d been stolenor a member of my family needed to get out of debt etc...the m=
usic collection would go. no contest, so no matter how highly you prize you=
 own work or value music in general, when the poop hits the rotors, we are =
an add-on that makes for a nicer more interesting life but...we wouldnt be =
the first animals on the boat in a storm.
=20
Phill


Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:25:45 -0400From: toddreyn@gmail.comTo: Loopers-De=
light@loopers-delight.comSubject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?Reply=
ing specifically to Travis, with respect...=20

alright, then, following this reasoning, we shouldn't pay our ministers, ou=
r therapists, any artists, fine or otherwise?  wouldn't the world look a li=
ttle bleak without them?  the elephant in the room is that musicians, actor=
s, artists... ARE 'useful'  as you put it, just only paid well when they've=
 found a way to fit into an already existing mold, creatively or not.  (I w=
as thinking about actors the other day... they're STILL 'playing' house lik=
e children, just at an incredibly refined and elegant level, and as a resul=
t of their perfected craft,  pretend and real life blur for us voyeurs and =
we learn something about our shared condition)

I'm more like Rick.  I'm overtrained, I'm a pro, through and through, yet i=
 chose 20 years ago to 'specialize' on the fringes of the avant-garde, both=
 compositionally and improvisationally, therefore it's always a struggle fi=
nancially, but I'm happy being an innovator on whatever level that might be=
.  I'm not the best at assessing that.  I just look for what's not there ye=
t, and try to chase it...

and speaking of 'not terribly pleasant work', my dad had me up at 430 in th=
e morning every morning.  not milking cows.  practicing.  and I gave my who=
le childhood and adolescence to that.  Not complaining, but I didn't REALLY=
 own my musical identity til i was 23 and walked away from traditional clas=
sical music.  what's that say?  not sure.  But sometimes I think we who wen=
t to school for 4 hours a day trying desperately to master something DO hav=
e a unique story to tell, one worth respect and  worth paying for.  It's ju=
st always difficult to sell that.  and THAT is why this thread is so intere=
sting to me.   but the janitor/plumber thing doesn't really hold that much =
for me.  Now SOUND men... you wouldn't ask THEM for a discount rate, they'r=
e day rate is what it is, and often, its more than MY day rate, lol.=20

hope I'm not being too overzealous here, or offensive to anyone.

let's keep this one going, it's interesting!   and useful!

t.

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:31 PM, Travis Hartnett <travishartnett@gmail.com=
> wrote:
I'm not sure that anyone here is begrudging you the *desire* to devote all =
your time to music, just perhaps the money to do so.  People don't get paid=
 to do something for a living because they chose to do something, they earn=
 a living doing something that brings in enough money to live on.  If you w=
ant to be admired by some (but not all) people ("Oh how noble--look how dev=
oted he is to his art, he's a...MUSICIAN!!!"), be a musician.  If you want =
a decent chance of getting people to pay you a working wage for something y=
ou do 8+ hours a day, consider doing something really useful--like plumbing=
.  Musicians frequently compare themselves to plumbers, carpenters or janit=
ors, saying "You wouldn't expect these people to work for nothing--why expe=
ct musicians to do so?"  And the answer is that no-one would fix your plumb=
ing unless you paid them a good deal of money.  It's not terribly pleasant =
work.  Indeed, your chance of making a living at a given occupation increas=
es greatly if it's unpleasant or very difficult.  And while being a musicia=
n requires skill, study, discipline and so on, people can obtain music easi=
ly and cheaply without ever dealing with a musician, thanks to a century's =
worth of recordings.  And even if musicians were paid in a manner similar t=
o tradesmen (plumbers, etc.), you'd have a tough time finding eight hours o=
f musical work each day to bill for.   A plumber works for two hours, he bi=
lls for your two hours, plus materials, plus perhaps a fixed service call c=
harge.  If gigs worked like that, you'd get paid for an hour's set, plus (l=
et's say) a fixed "gig charge", and so you might gross a hundred bucks for =
the evening.  Not much to live on.  And realistically, getting paid $60/hou=
r (roughly what a plumber charges in my neck of the woods) to play music is=
 a rarity for most of us.TH=20



lker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:
Again:    I can't fathom why people on this , of all lists, would begrudge =
me the desire to devote all of my time to music that a professionalmusical =
life affords me? -- http://www.toddreynolds.com |:http://myspace.com/toddre=
ynoldsmusic |:------------------------------------------------------|:917.5=
76.6166 todd@toddreynolds.comtoddreyn@gmail.com=20
_________________________________________________________________
Get Hotmail on your mobile. Text MSN to 63463 now!
http://mobile.uk.msn.com/pc/mail.aspx=

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Wow, Im loving this thread.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
It took me a good while to pluck up the nerve to actually write my angle fo=
r fear of offending anyone and once posted I watched the mails continue rol=
ling in for a little while before i decided to test the water of reaction.<=
BR>
Over all some massivly interesting points on all sides.<EM>&nbsp;I</EM>&nbs=
p; will never stop being amazed at this lists ability to expand my horizons=
 of thought.<BR>
I find the line of why shouldn't musicians be valued like plumbers etc very=
 interesting, I think my way of creating the deviding line has nothing to d=
o with the "opperator" end of the argument (startup costs/i needed X years =
practice/ my equipment cost =A3z) but instead focus's on the "user" end.. .=
 stepping out of my theoretical "lets make music a free part of our&nbsp; c=
ollected human cultural heritige" stance and back into the real world...I d=
o agree with whoever said that if someone enjoyed a performance they morall=
y&nbsp;could do something to &nbsp;show gratitude but even this is USER gen=
erated and a canny musician will do everything they can to make this transa=
ction easy ..if they loved you and would listen to you round the house...ha=
ve a CD ready for them&nbsp;to buy, if they would come and see you again, h=
ave a gig list to hand if you have a cool image&nbsp;they would buy into ha=
ve badges/tshirts etc but&nbsp;even at this stage of making yourself a prod=
uct to some extent... you are still ENTERTAINMENT<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
ok I know this is&nbsp;a very severe thing to say, and believe me , i have =
paid, I got a 2:1 in fine art rather then a predicted 1st&nbsp;after&nbsp;I=
 took on my fine art&nbsp;lecturer over the matter of art's value, I came a=
t it from my "Its&nbsp;brilliant, its important TO US, it CAN change the fe=
elings and moods of others...but its not ESSENTIAL, its not curing cancer" =
point of view. anyway long story&nbsp;short, I exhiled myself with my "atti=
tude" from my teacher and some students, although others did&nbsp;side with=
 me (we did a joint end of year show called The Realists hehe)&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
Anyway, i digress, but I hope you see my point, music is the single most im=
portant thing in my life, I always have music on at work, as i travel, at h=
ome etc and I love sharing my music with others...however if it came to the=
 line I could LIVE without it, in the litteral sense..if&nbsp; money was ti=
ght and I had to get medical treatment or the basement was flooded or the c=
ar had been stolenor a member of my family needed to get out of debt etc...=
the music collection would go. no contest, so no matter how highly you priz=
e you own work or value music in general, when the poop hits the rotors, we=
 are an add-on that makes for a nicer more interesting life but...we wouldn=
t be the first animals on the boat in a storm.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
Phill<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 00:25:45 -0400<BR>From: toddreyn@gmail.com<BR>To: Lo=
opers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<BR>Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians b=
e paid?<BR><BR>Replying specifically to Travis, with respect...=20
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>alright, then, following this reasoning, we shouldn't pay our minister=
s, our therapists, any artists, fine or otherwise? &nbsp;wouldn't the world=
 look a little bleak without them? &nbsp;the elephant in the room is that m=
usicians, actors, artists... ARE 'useful' &nbsp;as you put it, just only pa=
id well when they've found a way to fit into an already existing mold, crea=
tively or not. &nbsp;(I was thinking about actors the other day... they're =
STILL 'playing' house like children, just at an incredibly refined and eleg=
ant level, and as a result of their perfected craft, &nbsp;pretend and real=
 life blur for us voyeurs and we learn something about our shared condition=
)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I'm more like Rick. &nbsp;I'm overtrained, I'm a pro, through and thro=
ugh, yet i chose 20 years ago to 'specialize' on the fringes of the avant-g=
arde, both compositionally and improvisationally, therefore it's always a s=
truggle financially, but I'm happy being an innovator on whatever level tha=
t might be. &nbsp;I'm not the best at assessing that. &nbsp;I just look for=
 what's not there yet, and try to chase it...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>and speaking of 'not terribly pleasant work', my dad had me up at 430 =
in the morning every morning. &nbsp;not milking cows. &nbsp;practicing. &nb=
sp;and I gave my whole childhood and adolescence to that. &nbsp;Not complai=
ning, but I didn't REALLY own my musical identity til i was 23 and walked a=
way from traditional classical music. &nbsp;what's that say? &nbsp;not sure=
. &nbsp;But sometimes I think we who went to school for 4 hours a day tryin=
g desperately to master something DO have a unique story to tell, one worth=
 respect and &nbsp;worth paying for. &nbsp;It's just always difficult to se=
ll that. &nbsp;and THAT is why this thread is so interesting to me. &nbsp; =
but the janitor/plumber thing doesn't really hold that much for me. &nbsp;N=
ow SOUND men... you wouldn't ask THEM for a discount rate, they're day rate=
 is what it is, and often, its more than MY day rate, lol.&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>hope I'm not being too overzealous here, or offensive to anyone.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>let's keep this one going, it's interesting! &nbsp; and useful!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>t.<BR>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DEC_gmail_quote>On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 10:31 PM, Travis Hartne=
tt &lt;<A href=3D"mailto:travishartnett@gmail.com">travishartnett@gmail.com=
</A>&gt; wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3DEC_gmail_quote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT:=
 #ccc 1px solid">I'm not sure that anyone here is begrudging you the *desir=
e* to devote all your time to music, just perhaps the money to do so.&nbsp;=
 People don't get paid to do something for a living because they chose to d=
o something, they earn a living doing something that brings in enough money=
 to live on.&nbsp; If you want to be admired by some (but not all) people (=
"Oh how noble--look how devoted he is to his art, he's a...MUSICIAN!!!"), b=
e a musician.&nbsp; If you want a decent chance of getting people to pay yo=
u a working wage for something you do 8+ hours a day, consider doing someth=
ing really useful--like plumbing.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Musicians frequently compar=
e themselves to plumbers, carpenters or janitors, saying "You wouldn't expe=
ct these people to work for nothing--why expect musicians to do so?"&nbsp; =
And the answer is that no-one would fix your plumbing unless you paid them =
a good deal of money.&nbsp; It's not terribly pleasant work.&nbsp; Indeed, =
your chance of making a living at a given occupation increases greatly if i=
t's unpleasant or very difficult.&nbsp; And while being a musician requires=
 skill, study, discipline and so on, people can obtain music easily and che=
aply without ever dealing with a musician, thanks to a century's worth of r=
ecordings.&nbsp; And even if musicians were paid in a manner similar to tra=
desmen (plumbers, etc.), you'd have a tough time finding eight hours of mus=
ical work each day to bill for.&nbsp;&nbsp; A plumber works for two hours, =
he bills for your two hours, plus materials, plus perhaps a fixed service c=
all charge.&nbsp; If gigs worked like that, you'd get paid for an hour's se=
t, plus (let's say) a fixed "gig charge", and so you might gross a hundred =
bucks for the evening.&nbsp; Not much to live on.&nbsp; And realistically, =
getting paid $60/hour (roughly what a plumber charges in my neck of the woo=
ds) to play music is a rarity for most of us.<BR><FONT color=3D#888888><BR>=
TH</FONT>=20
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DEC_Wj3C7c><BR><BR>
<DIV class=3DEC_gmail_quote>lker &lt;<A href=3D"mailto:looppool@cruzio.com"=
>looppool@cruzio.com</A>&gt; wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3DEC_gmail_quote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"><BR>Again: &=
nbsp; &nbsp;I can't fathom why people on this , of all lists, would begrudg=
e me the desire to devote all of my time to music that a professional<BR>mu=
sical life affords me? <BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>=
</DIV><BR><BR clear=3Dall><BR>-- <BR><A href=3D"http://www.toddreynolds.com=
/" target=3D_blank>http://www.toddreynolds.com</A> |:<BR><A href=3D"http://=
myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic" target=3D_blank>http://myspace.com/toddreyno=
ldsmusic</A> |:<BR>------------------------------------------------------|:=
<BR>917.576.6166 <BR><A href=3D"mailto:todd@toddreynolds.com">todd@toddreyn=
olds.com</A><BR><A href=3D"mailto:toddreyn@gmail.com">toddreyn@gmail.com</A=
> </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><br /><hr />A prize an hour, 24 hours a day. <a =
href=3D'http://www.bigsnapsearch.com
=20
' target=3D'_new'>Try Big Snap now!</a></body>
</html>=

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Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:44:06 -0600
References: <011f01c89f67$01b5f910$6401a8c0@dayglogreen> <d1396fc00804151931h17bd645dtd6ca9d45bc43cc76@mail.gmail.com>  <4759e5740804152125nf2d5dd7vf36067cffe907a67@mail.gmail.com> <BAY101-W161BB487210B22E6E159C3BEEA0@phx.gbl>
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"but its not ESSENTIAL, its not curing cancer"

An interesting side note to this....in my former life I was a  
registered music therapist, and one of my colleagues in Cleveland,  
while finishing her doctoral thesis, found that music therapy  
activities statistically increased the amount of a certain protein in  
saliva that promotes healing.  That's the short of it, I'll see if I  
can find the more clinical description for any one interested.

The woman's name is Deforia Lane.  This was 15 years ago, and I  
believe she was a cancer survivor herself and often claimed that she  
had used music therapy on herself to help battle the disease.

John
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">"<span class=3D"Apple-style-span"=
 style=3D"font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 13px; ">but its not ESSENTIAL, =
its not curing cancer"</span><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 13px;">An interesting =
side note to this....in my former life I was a registered music =
therapist, and one of my colleagues in Cleveland, while finishing her =
doctoral thesis, found that music therapy activities statistically =
increased the amount of a certain protein in saliva that promotes =
healing. &nbsp;That's the short of it, I'll see if I can find the more =
clinical description for any one =
interested.</span></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 13px;">The woman's name =
is Deforia Lane. &nbsp;This was 15 years ago, and I believe she was a =
cancer survivor herself and often claimed that she had used music =
therapy on herself to help battle the =
disease.</span></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: =
13px;">John</span></font></div></body></html>=

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Subject: RE: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
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Mr.Wilson wrote "we wouldnt be the first animals on the boat in a storm" True but I've seen the movie and when everone else on the sinking tub is climbing into the available lifeboats the band will be playing "Nearer My God To Thee".with feeling as it were. The price of everything and the value of nothing, one man's trash or your life's work, which is it and to whom and why should they care about your well being anyway? And how much money is Henry Mancini's estate making from ringtones of the "Pink Panther Theme" which I saw listed as the 5th most popular download of that sort last month. As to Charlie Ives I don't think he gigged out much afterhours from the insurance job, but he may have done some plumbing on the side.....details are lacking.

                                                    bryan helm



--
Music and Mosaics 
bryanhelm.wordpress.com
at-the-helm.us
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<DIV>Mr.Wilson wrote "we wouldnt be the first animals on the boat in a storm" True but I've seen the movie and when everone else on the sinking&nbsp;tub&nbsp;is climbing into the available lifeboats the band will be playing "Nearer My God To Thee".with feeling as it were. The price of everything and the value of nothing, one man's trash or your life's work, which is it and to whom and why should they care about your well being anyway? And how much money is Henry Mancini's estate making&nbsp;from ringtones of the "Pink Panther Theme" which I saw listed as the 5th most popular download of that sort last month. As to Charlie Ives I don't think he gigged out much afterhours from the insurance job, but he may have done some&nbsp;plumbing on the side.....details are lacking.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; bryan helm<BR></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV class=signature>--<BR>Music and Mosaics <BR>bryanhelm.wordpress.com</DIV>
<DIV class=signature>at-the-helm.us<BR></DIV>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 21:26:55 2008
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Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:26:07 -0400
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I'm in awe of you guys. This all started with a very offhand, flippant  
remark by me to a fellow musician looking for help with some gigs. I  
felt bad originally because I felt like I demeaned him in some way. It  
was not my intent. I deeply respect anybody who's out there in the  
trenches.

I don't know about all these philosophers, or avant garde composers  
you are citing. I just want to show up to the gig, have some fun, play  
well, get some applause (yeah right), and get paid. Im 4 to 6 hours  
away from home. Away from my family, dealing with stingy club owners,  
drunk assholes who want to beatbox on my mic, driving late at night  
when the road is full of drunks. I feel I should be paid fairly, and I  
am, because I demand it.
Is that simple.
Great thread(s) though.
You guys rock.
Chris

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 21:30:48 2008
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From: "Travis Hartnett" <travishartnett@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
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A few questions: what sort of music are you playing, what sort of venues are
you booked into, how large are your audiences, how many people do you
perform with, and what's your idea of "fair" pay?

TH

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com> wrote:

> I just want to show up to the gig, have some fun, play well, get some
> applause (yeah right), and get paid. Im 4 to 6 hours away from home. Away
> from my family, dealing with stingy club owners, drunk assholes who want to
> beatbox on my mic, driving late at night when the road is full of drunks. I
> feel I should be paid fairly, and I am, because I demand it.
> Is that simple.
>
> Chris
>
>

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A few questions: what sort of music are you playing, what sort of venues are you booked into, how large are your audiences, how many people do you perform with, and what&#39;s your idea of &quot;fair&quot; pay?<br><br>TH<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Chris Sewell &lt;<a href="mailto:lunamusic@mac.com">lunamusic@mac.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
I just want to show up to the gig, have some fun, play well, get some applause (yeah right), and get paid. Im 4 to 6 hours away from home. Away from my family, dealing with stingy club owners, drunk assholes who want to beatbox on my mic, driving late at night when the road is full of drunks. I feel I should be paid fairly, and I am, because I demand it.<br>

Is that simple.<br><br><font color="#888888">
Chris<br>
<br>
</font></blockquote></div><br>

------=_Part_7078_16386081.1208381446959--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 22:31:41 2008
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From: "greg williams" <gregorwilliams@comcast.net>
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Subject: RE: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
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My perspective on this extraordinary debate is likely skewed but I'll chime
in anyway. My goal since I was a teenager has been to make my living
entirely in music, and I have been blessed to have been (modestly)
successful at it for over 20 years now, although I certainly do not make a
lot of money. My income is about 50% teaching, both privately and at the
college level, and about 50% gigs, depending in large part on the time of
year. Like many on this list, I have put my whole life, spirit and soul into
what I love because I was somehow driven to do so. I value highly the time,
effort and passion that I have put into learning my craft, and in a perfect
world I believe others should value this as much as any other profession
which demands so much unpaid training, such as a doctor or lawyer. It is an
imperfect world, however, but I still value what I do and what I am and do
not gladly give my services away. 

Is this an idealistic stance? Yes it is. Is it impractical? I haven't found
it to be so, but I have put a lot of effort into marketing myself, and I'm
fortunate to live in an active and vibrant market (Northern California).

As a rule I do not play without compensation excepting my annual faculty
recitals, which are free to the public and I view as part of my salary, or
festivals (such as Y2K) where the "exposure" - I hate to use that word - is
very real and beautiful and not speculation or fantasy. I get calls to do
"benefit" gigs all the time (I'm a classical guitarist, so I play a lot of
corporate parties and weddings), and politely turn them down if they cannot
pay my usual fee. They generally then sound perplexed or questioning, and I
simply ask them if they are making a salary calling people and asking them
to donate their services and time. They almost always are, and that usually
ends the conversation, that is unless they ask for a recommendation of
someone else willing to give their services and time away, which I decline
as well.

Love and Music,
~Greg
http:/www.gregwilliamsguitar.com
http:/www.myspace.com/gregwilliamsguitarist

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Sewell [mailto:lunamusic@mac.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 2:26 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?

I'm in awe of you guys. This all started with a very offhand, flippant  
remark by me to a fellow musician looking for help with some gigs. I  
felt bad originally because I felt like I demeaned him in some way. It  
was not my intent. I deeply respect anybody who's out there in the  
trenches.

I don't know about all these philosophers, or avant garde composers  
you are citing. I just want to show up to the gig, have some fun, play  
well, get some applause (yeah right), and get paid. Im 4 to 6 hours  
away from home. Away from my family, dealing with stingy club owners,  
drunk assholes who want to beatbox on my mic, driving late at night  
when the road is full of drunks. I feel I should be paid fairly, and I  
am, because I demand it.
Is that simple.
Great thread(s) though.
You guys rock.
Chris

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 22:36:13 2008
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From: Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:36:07 -0400
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I have several types of gigs that I play. One is basic acoustic  
covers. 8 to 12 a month. This is with small pa, RC50, in rooms  
ranging from small to medium size pubs, to outdoor decks and beach  
bars. These pay $175 for 3 hours to $200 to $250 for 4 hours. Much  
more for Private and Corporate gigs.
I also play more sophisticated rooms, college bars, lounges etc. This  
is more groove style music done with Ableton, SL and Logic, again  
solo. Acoustic and Electric guitars. Some beats, similer to Keller  
Williams but more electronic.  I can slide original material in here.  
Same rates apply, but they are almost never 4 hours. They usually  
have the benefit of having a house PA. I do about 3 or 4 of these a  
month.
The Third type of gig (and these are what allow me to not have a day  
job) are daytime gigs at rehab centers, retirement homes, hospitals  
etc. These are one hour, $150, a small amp, acoustic guitar and an  
RC2. I can do as many as 8 of these a week. These are oddly enough,  
the most rewarding spiritually for me. I know it sounds corny, but to  
make somebody's day who is in a bad way, is really great. These gigs  
material range from standards, to italian and irish songs, to basic  
acoustic covers.
So yes, I've made some compromises that allow me to live off music.  
But it beats workin.
I just wish I started doing this years ago.
Chris


On Apr 16, 2008, at 5:30 PM, Travis Hartnett wrote:

> A few questions: what sort of music are you playing, what sort of  
> venues are you booked into, how large are your audiences, how many  
> people do you perform with, and what's your idea of "fair" pay?
>
> TH
>
> On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com>  
> wrote:
> I just want to show up to the gig, have some fun, play well, get  
> some applause (yeah right), and get paid. Im 4 to 6 hours away from  
> home. Away from my family, dealing with stingy club owners, drunk  
> assholes who want to beatbox on my mic, driving late at night when  
> the road is full of drunks. I feel I should be paid fairly, and I  
> am, because I demand it.
> Is that simple.
>
> Chris
>
>


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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
I have several types of gigs that I play. One is basic acoustic covers. =
8 to 12 a month. This is with small pa, RC50, in rooms ranging from =
small to medium size pubs, to outdoor decks and beach bars. These pay =
$175 for 3 hours to $200 to $250 for 4 hours. Much more for Private and =
Corporate gigs.=A0<div>I also play more sophisticated rooms, college =
bars, lounges etc. This is more groove style music done with Ableton, SL =
and Logic, again solo. Acoustic and Electric guitars. Some beats, =
similer to Keller Williams but more electronic. =A0I can slide original =
material in here. Same rates apply, but they are almost never 4 hours. =
They usually have the benefit of having a house PA. I do about 3 or 4 of =
these a month.=A0<div>The Third type of gig (and these are what allow me =
to not have a day job) are daytime gigs at rehab centers, retirement =
homes, hospitals etc. These are one hour, $150, a small amp, acoustic =
guitar and an RC2. I can do as many as 8 of these a week. These are =
oddly enough, the most rewarding=A0spiritually=A0for me. I know it =
sounds corny, but to make=A0somebody's=A0day who is in a bad way, is =
really great. These gigs material range from standards, to italian and =
irish songs, to basic acoustic covers.=A0</div><div>So yes, I've made =
some=A0compromises=A0that allow me to live off music. But it beats =
workin.=A0</div><div>I just wish I started doing this years =
ago.=A0</div><div>Chris</div><div><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br><div><div>On Apr 16, =
2008, at 5:30 PM, Travis Hartnett wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite">A few =
questions: what sort of music are you playing, what sort of venues are =
you booked into, how large are your audiences, how many people do you =
perform with, and what's your idea of "fair" pay?<br><br>TH<br> <br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Chris Sewell =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lunamusic@mac.com">lunamusic@mac.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px =
solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: =
1ex;"> I just want to show up to the gig, have some fun, play well, get =
some applause (yeah right), and get paid. Im 4 to 6 hours away from =
home. Away from my family, dealing with stingy club owners, drunk =
assholes who want to beatbox on my mic, driving late at night when the =
road is full of drunks. I feel I should be paid fairly, and I am, =
because I demand it.<br> Is that simple.<br><br><font color=3D"#888888"> =
Chris<br> <br> =
</font></blockquote></div><br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></body></=
html>=

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For the record, Chris, I didn't feel demeaned by your original comment 
(ancient history by now). It was a simple yet absolute statement, and I 
took it as a not-unfriendly challenge to explain my position, not a 
condemnation of any kind.

I think it's commendable you, and Greg, and Rick, and Per, other people 
I've forgotten about, plus two good friends of mine in northern 
California are all making a living off music. It takes creativity, 
dedication, skill and the ability to, basically, run a small business, 
something I don't have the mettle to take on.

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com

> I'm in awe of you guys. This all started with a very offhand, flippant 
> remark by me to a fellow musician looking for help with some gigs. I 
> felt bad originally because I felt like I demeaned him in some way. It 
> was not my intent. I deeply respect anybody who's out there in the 
> trenches.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 16 23:26:26 2008
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
References: <041620082100.13705.480668F2000DAAB00000358922070209530196010D9F010104@comcast.net> <031758B0-3D27-4EFE-842B-1F14AE795FC1@mac.com> <48068449.9070508@mhorse.com>
Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:08:24 -0600
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Personally, and being totally ignorant of what this thread has been doing, I 
think society's socio-economic mapping of artists and educators on the scale 
of monetary compensation is completely inverted and backwards. If worthwhile 
and genuine "creative human spirit" effort is in any way quantifiable (the 
key assumption here), I think artists and educators should be getting paid 
at least 20X the average of what they get paid now...and I don't mean the 
rich rock stars of the world, but the folks on the street working their 
assess off and producing really great and creative art.   Somehow, I my 
ideal vision of how econony should have evolved over the last few thousand 
years, implies that artists and educators are rewarded to a greater degree 
than other professions.  They should be the crown jewels of our human 
culture, the representation of what being human is all about.

Who do I need to talk to get this changed? :)  Let's give everyone a 2000% 
raise.

Kris

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 17 01:03:22 2008
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Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 03:03:01 +0200
From: chrisrover <chrisrover@aol.com>
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Subject: Why musicians don't get paid enough ...
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This article may have been posted before here or elsewhere.
Not sure, but good evidence for the topic

!worth! and $worth$...

If you don't know it already you'll enjoy reading and watching this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/04/AR2007040401721.html?referrer=emailarticle


chrisrover@aol.com
www.christianrover.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 17 03:37:34 2008
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From: "Rick Walker" <looppool@cruzio.com>
To: "LOOPERS DELIGHT \(posting\)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 20:37:37 -0700
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Warren wrote:
"I'm sorry Rick, while I respect you immensely, I gotta come down with 
Travis on this (who I think you've been a bit rude to), but maybe phrased 
differently: people of limited means, as most people are, tend to spend most 
of their money on things they perceive that they *have* to spend money on - 
food, shelter, medical care, etc. Musicians are a category of discretionary 
spending, so we tend to make less. I think Travis is using "useful" to mean 
an "unavoidable expenditure".

I hear what you are saying Warren, except to mention that
my intention was never to be rude to Travis and if he perceived my comments 
as rude I apologize, profusely.

But the problem I see is not about the way things are as you so adroitly 
point out, but more about the way they are percieved.

Of course, I can't make much of a living anymore as a professional musician 
after being one of the most successful professionals in
my local area for 25 years.............that's just the way it is,  I agree. 
What upsets me is that a lot of people begrudge that I'd even
aspire to it.   That's a shocker and why I responded so strongly to Travis' 
original posting.

Warren wrote:
"Whether you respect what you do or not or are bitter or not about this 
reality doesn't change it, and one shouldn't have to wear blinders in order 
to be PC about this. Of course music has value. Of course musicians should 
be well-compensated. Of course Bush should have been drawn and quartered 6 
years ago. This is not a perfect world."

There are lots of things that are true about life that suck horribly, 
Warren:
the world is overpopulated and increasingly so.
human beings are eroding the quality of the ecosystem on the planet.
western and western styled  economies are beginning to fail.
music and art seem to have rapidly decreasing respect amongst the populance
(at least where I live to be frank................according to Per and 
Rainer, this is NOT the case so much in their respective countries).

This doesn't mean that it is right or that it is good or that we should 
champion 'what is'  just because we can't change it.
A large part of why the world is in a tough place currently is because 
people have let it become that way.

Maybe I"m just an old fart hippy activist, but I say,   "Fuck that".
I think art and music are worth fighting for.  I think respect for artists 
and musicians is worth fighting for.
If I'd just been resigned to 'what is'  then I would have never led so many 
campaigns against the laws
our city council and police department put into place, limiting the ability 
for musicians to play in public.
If I'd just been resigned to 'what is',  the we wouldn't have sacrificed so 
much to get the looping festivals started
and up and running.      Hell,  they lose money hand over fist and I can't 
pay practically anyone for their performances.


I guess I come from a more idealistic
older era, but I do get angry when the arts are continually 
hurt............when they are increasingly not supported by institutions , 
the general
populance and even the artists themselves.

There just  seems so much resignation amongst young people (and a lot of 
musicians that I know).
There also seems to be an increasing intolerance to people being angry about 
the way the world is going.
'Whatever, dude' ,   "don't make waves'  seems to be the order of the day.

I grew up at a time (the late 50's and  60's)  where music was almost 
revered by my generation and I'd be lying if I didn't say that
it's painful to me, emotionally speaking,  that newer generations seem so 
cavalier about music.........................as if music is only
a product and not a way of life (as I see it).

I don't even have a problem with the fact that the paradigm is shifting 
radically.    If I was young and starting over again, I would NEVER become a 
professional
musician in the current climate.      I do 'art' gigs that I made a living 
off of as little as 5 years ago for free all the time now.

What I find shocking, however, is that musicians are the ones who seem also 
to not put value on music's worth in our culture.
That's why I was so forthright in what I wrote back to Travis.

Also, if you'll read my original post, I was very explicit about asking him 
if this is the way he felt.   I even wrote that I was assuming things and 
wanted to check it out
because I read a tone in his message that was disturbing to me.

Again,  if I offended, I apologize profusely.   It wasn't my intention, 
honestly.

And in conclusion, though it seems rather unpopular, I  think that there is 
nobility in committing oneseful to a life of art.
In a way,  besides the art itself,  it may be the only currency left for 
artists, emotionally speaking.

This attitude bugs a lot of people I've discovered but that's the only way I 
know how to keep going as things get tougher to make a living.

I know it's not a popular attitude anymore.   I'm aware that I"m out of step 
with reality................so be it.

If someone doesn't agree with me,  it's not going to change my mind on the 
subject and I know from reading the responses to
a lot of this thread that there's no hope in changing anyone elses mind 
about it either.

So be it.

Hope to see many of you at Y2K8 or on tour in Europe and Britiain this 
summer.

respectfully,   just agreeing to disagree,    Rick 

From sicur@unicredit.it  Thu Apr 17 04:02:34 2008
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From: Sicurezza Banca di Roma <sicur@unicredit.it>
To: looparc@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Ultime specifiche di sicurezza
Date: 16 Apr 2008 20:50:22 -0700
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<BASE href=3D"http://mailstore.rossoalice.alice.it/exchange/Alice00000000114=
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<p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Gentile Cliente,<br><br>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 17 05:59:31 2008
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From: "JC" <jcmg@earthlink.net>
To: <jcmg@earthlink.com>
Subject: Sonic Mandalas - A New Black Note Music CD
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 22:34:35 -0700
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Kyron - Sonic Mandalas=20

An electronic aural transmutation of ancient principles=20

Mandalas have been employed by a variety of spiritual traditions to =
awaken the kernel of sanctity that lies dormant within all of the =
manifested universe. These Sonic Mandalas continue that tradition and =
may be used to focus attention and exercise pure consciousness in a =
trance state. They are also beautiful and enjoyable as pure musical =
experiences.=20
16 tracks ring in at just under one hour. Each track expresses a unique =
realm moving from expansive bright moods to dark ambient spaces and =
everything in between. Ambient electronic sounds meet with blip and body =
moving beats to create an album that spans from the heavens to the earth =
and back. This music can be used for meditation, deep listening, =
conscious movement, or sacred dance. It's the perfect CD to make any =
space more alive and conducive to the flow of raw creative energies.=20

You can get it from Itunes here:
http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=3D=
276026945

Or from CDBaby here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/kyron7

Or directly from the Black Note Music site here:
http://www.deconstructionist.com/blacknote/mandalas.htm

Any comments, questions or suggestions are sincerely appreciated.

JC Mendizabal
Black Note Music
http://www.blacknotemusic.com
Via Sinistrae
www.viasinistrae.com
http://sinistrae.libsyn.com/
Other Sites
http://www.allhaildiscordia.com/
http://maddogmagick.blogspot.com/
http://secretsareeverywhere.blogspot.com/
------=_NextPart_000_01E4_01C8A012.0D254160
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kyron - Sonic =
Mandalas&nbsp;<BR></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>An electronic aural transmutation of ancient =
principles=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mandalas have been employed by a =
variety of=20
spiritual traditions to awaken the kernel of sanctity that lies dormant =
within=20
all of the manifested universe. These Sonic Mandalas continue that =
tradition and=20
may be used to focus attention and exercise pure consciousness in a =
trance=20
state. They are also beautiful and enjoyable as pure musical =
experiences.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>16 tracks ring in at just under one =
hour. Each=20
track expresses a unique&nbsp;realm moving from expansive bright moods =
to dark=20
ambient spaces and everything in between. Ambient electronic sounds meet =
with=20
blip and body moving beats to create an album that spans from the =
heavens to the=20
earth and back. This music can be used for meditation, deep listening, =
conscious=20
movement, or sacred dance. It=92s the perfect CD to make any space more =
alive and=20
conducive to the flow of raw creative energies. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You can get it from Itunes =
here:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playL=
istId=3D276026945">http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/view=
Album?playListId=3D276026945</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Or from CDBaby here:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://cdbaby.com/cd/kyron7">http://cdbaby.com/cd/kyron7</A></FON=
T></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Or directly from the Black Note Music =
site=20
here:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.deconstructionist.com/blacknote/mandalas.htm">http://w=
ww.deconstructionist.com/blacknote/mandalas.htm</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any comments, questions or suggestions =
are=20
sincerely appreciated.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>JC Mendizabal<BR>Black Note Music<BR><A =

href=3D"http://www.blacknotemusic.com/">http://www.blacknotemusic.com</A>=
<BR>Via=20
Sinistrae<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.viasinistrae.com/">www.viasinistrae.com</A><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://sinistrae.libsyn.com/">http://sinistrae.libsyn.com/</A><BR=
>Other=20
Sites<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.allhaildiscordia.com/">http://www.allhaildiscordia.com=
/</A><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://maddogmagick.blogspot.com/">http://maddogmagick.blogspot.c=
om/</A><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://secretsareeverywhere.blogspot.com/">http://secretsareevery=
where.blogspot.com/</A></FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 17 09:32:13 2008
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Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:32:10 +0200
From: "Byron Howell" <howell.byron@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: George Lewis PDF
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Yes indeed Dito on that! Would very much love to read.
Byron

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 11:49 AM, <kopfende@web.de> wrote:

> Late to the fun - I'd like to read that Lewis, too. Big thanks, IngoA
>
>

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Yes indeed Dito on that! Would very much love to read.<div><br></div><div>Byron<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 11:49 AM,  &lt;<a href="mailto:kopfende@web.de">kopfende@web.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
Late to the fun - I&#39;d like to read that Lewis, too. Big thanks, IngoA<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 17 10:11:56 2008
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Nico Spahni <nicosp@gmx.net>
Subject: multi-effect with looping function
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:11:52 +0200
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Hi Loopers

I've gotten somewhat weary of assembling and disassembling my laptop- 
based looping setup (yes, go ahead, call me a sissy, you that are  
still schlepping around effect racks and big Marshall amps :-).

I'm looking for a small, inexpensive, floor-type multi-effect with a   
basic looping function at the end of the effect chain. I'd like to  
switch effects while overdubbing a loop. Feedback control and the  
possiblility to insert effects after the loop would be nice add-ons.  
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Cheers from Switzerland

Nico
www.myspace.com/nicospahni

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 17 10:37:15 2008
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Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 06:33:15 -0400
From: Bill Fox <billyfox@soundscapes.us>
Subject: Listen to Afterglow, Galactic Travels, and The AM/FM Show
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
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AFTERGLOW ON WMUH:                      http://soundscapes.us/afterglow
=======================================================================
Afterglow airs from 8:00 am to 9:30 am every Thursday morning.  Tune in
for a delightful mix of eclectic musical genres including a healthy
dose of Progressive Rock.  Tune in at 91.7 FM or on the internet at:
http://muhlenberg.edu/wmuh
Check out Afterglow on MySpace at:
http://myspace.com/afterglowonwmuh


GALACTIC TRAVELS ON WDIY:                   http://galactictravels.info
=======================================================================
Tonight at 11 pm on Galactic Travels, I'll continue the month-long
Special Focus on Create.  The Featured CD at Midnight will be
"From Earth To Mars" by Create  on Groove Unlimited Records.  For
details, see the Special Focus page at:
http://wdiy.org/programs/gt/playlists/2008/focus.html#apr
Become a friend of Galactic Travels on MySpace at:
http://myspace.com/galactictravels

Galactic Travels is an electronic, ambient, and space music show that
airs each Thursday at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and
Bethlehem, 93.9 FM in Easton and Phillipsburg, 93.7 FM in Fogelsville
and Trexlertown, on the internet, and in High Definition Radio at 88.1
FM.


THE AM/FM SHOW ON WMUH:                      http://soundscapes.us/amfm
=======================================================================
My next stint on the AM/FM Show will be Saturday, April 19 at 6:00 am.
I will continue the special on Sequences Electronic Music Magazine's
sampler CDs.

Tune in to WMUH Allentown at 91.7 FM, broadcasting from the campus of
Muhlenberg College.  I alternate hosting the show with Bruce.  When I
am at the helm, the show features electronic, ambient, and spacemusic
at the beginning, an eclectic mix of genres in the middle, and winds
up with Progressive Rock.  WMUH's web site is
http://muhlenberg.edu/wmuh


WDIY FM:                                                http://wdiy.org
=======================================================================
You can hear WDIY at 88.1 FM in the greater Lehigh Valley, Allentown,
and Bethlehem area, 93.9 FM in Easton and Phillipsburg, 93.7 FM in
Fogelsville and Trexlertown, and on the internet.  WDIY also broadcasts
a Digital HD signal on 88.1 FM.

WDIY's Membership Drive runs the 16th through the 26th.  If you value
the diverse voice of non-commercial public radio, then please do your
part by becoming a member.  You can become a member of WDIY at
http://wdiy.org using the secure on-line pledge page or calling
610-758-8810ea during the drive.  You can also renew your membership,
make an extra gift, or rejoin if you have let your membership lapse.
And it's TAX DEDUCTIBLE!  For volunteer opportunities, call Alison at
610-694-8100 extension 8.  YOU keep adventurous radio on the air that
is live and local.


======================================================================
All times are EDT/GMT-4.

Listen on-line to WDIY at http://wdiy.org and click LISTEN or go
directly to: http://rm1.refugemedia.com/ramgen/encoder/wdiy.rm

Listen on-line to WMUH at http://www.muhlenberg.edu/wmuh and click the
REAL AUDIO link or go directly to:
rtsp://helix.muhlenberg.edu:554/broadcast/live.rm

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 17 14:06:20 2008
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From: Matt Stevens <mattstevensguitar@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 15:06:13 +0100
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Why not put a donate button on your website so people have the  
opportunity to be paid??

I'm giving my EP away free on my site today but there is also a  
donate button.

www.mattstevensguitar.com

Matt

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 17 14:29:46 2008
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Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:29:43 -0400
From: "Tony K" <bigtonyk@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
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Rick,


On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:

(snip)

>
> And in conclusion, though it seems rather unpopular, I  think that there
> is nobility in committing oneseful to a life of art.
> In a way,  besides the art itself,  it may be the only currency left for
> artists, emotionally speaking.
>

I'm not sure that we are disagreeing with it being a very noble thing.  At
least I don't.    I truly believe that it's a crying shame that it has
become so difficult to do.  And doubt that anybody here has any negative
feelings about you being a pro musician.  Frankly I think it's a great
thing.  I've seen how difficult it is to make a living as an artist and I
have mucho admiration for people who do.  I have a friend who's friends with
Mike Portnoy and I've occasionally gotten to talk to him.  Even he, as a
'big rock star' says that it's hard for them to keep things rolling.  Being
a musician, even one who is famous, is a lot of damn work!



-- 
-==-=-=-
Tony

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Rick,<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Rick Walker &lt;<a href="mailto:looppool@cruzio.com">looppool@cruzio.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><div><br>(snip) <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
And in conclusion, though it seems rather unpopular, I &nbsp;think that there is nobility in committing oneseful to a life of art.<br>
In a way, &nbsp;besides the art itself, &nbsp;it may be the only currency left for artists, emotionally speaking.<br>
</blockquote><div><br>I&#39;m not sure that we are disagreeing with it being a very noble thing.&nbsp; At least I don&#39;t.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I truly believe that it&#39;s a crying shame that it has become so difficult to do.&nbsp; And doubt that anybody here has any negative feelings about you being a pro musician.&nbsp; Frankly I think it&#39;s a great thing.&nbsp; I&#39;ve seen how difficult it is to make a living as an artist and I have mucho admiration for people who do.&nbsp; I have a friend who&#39;s friends with Mike Portnoy and I&#39;ve occasionally gotten to talk to him.&nbsp; Even he, as a &#39;big rock star&#39; says that it&#39;s hard for them to keep things rolling.&nbsp; Being a musician, even one who is famous, is a lot of damn work!<br>
<br></div></div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>-==-=-=- <br>Tony

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 17 14:45:32 2008
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Subject: List troubles?
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The list server unsubscribed me without me requesting it to do so.  Is there 
something going on with it? 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 17 14:57:15 2008
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Ooops... he's back, guys!!!  What are we gonna do now?

Hmmm....

Let's pretend that this forum os about baseball till he goes away on 
his own....


(Just kidding, Bob!!!!) >:-}

>The list server unsubscribed me without me requesting it to do so. 
>Is there something going on with it?


-- 
...
http://www.zmix.net

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 17 15:02:26 2008
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References: <013401c89188$5c859fe0$6701a8c0@dayglogreen> <47FF07F9.7010106@addcom.de> <006401c8a099$bf26f160$5901a8c0@bobdell> <p06230901c42d155037f5@[69.86.253.58]>
Subject: Re: List troubles?
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> Let's pretend that this forum os about baseball till he goes away on 
> his own....

LOL, just watch, I can talk baseball, too. :-)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 17 15:06:55 2008
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OK - Now I'll really start some trouble.  Can anyone here comment on  why 
professional baseball players are not compensated fairly in today's economic  
climate?  [Tongue is planted firmly in cheek in case that wasn't  evident].
 
Harry  Weinberg, Esq. - Mets Season Ticket Holder
Law Offices of Harry  Weinberg
11 Beach Street - 8th Floor
New York, N.Y. 10013
(212)  989-2908



**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car 
listings at AOL Autos.      
(http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)

-------------------------------1208444809
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16587" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:=20=
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e_document=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
<DIV>OK - Now I'll really start some trouble.&nbsp; Can anyone here comment=20=
on=20
why professional baseball players are not compensated fairly in today's econ=
omic=20
climate?&nbsp; [Tongue is planted firmly in cheek in case that wasn't=20
evident].</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DArial size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" PTSIZE=3D"10"=
>Harry=20
Weinberg, Esq. - Mets Season Ticket Holder<BR>Law Offices of Harry=20
Weinberg<BR>11 Beach Street - 8th Floor<BR>New York, N.Y. 10013<BR>(212)=20
989-2908</FONT></DIV></FONT><BR><BR><BR><DIV><FONT style=3D"color: black; fo=
nt: normal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;"><HR style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 10px">Need a new=
 ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at <A title=3D"=
http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=3Daolcmp00300000002851" href=3D"http://autos.=
aol.com/used?NCID=3Daolcmp00300000002851" target=3D"_blank">AOL Autos</A>.</=
FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

-------------------------------1208444809--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 17 15:16:36 2008
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The list server does that from time to time, obviously.

This has happened to me about four times in the last five months or so...I =
always thought this had to do that the list server triggered a pain in the =
arse alert, but you also qualify to trigger this alert?

----- original Nachricht --------

Betreff: List troubles?
Gesendet: Do, 17. Apr 2008
Von: Bob Amstadt<bobld@amstadt.com>

> The list server unsubscribed me without me requesting it to do so.  Is th=
ere
>=20
> something going on with it?=20
>=20
>=20

--- original Nachricht Ende ----

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 17 15:17:02 2008
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To: <loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 15:17:01 +0000
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> There just seems so much resignation amongst young people (and a lot of >=
 musicians that I know).> There also seems to be an increasing intolerance =
to people being angry about > the way the world is going.> 'Whatever, dude'=
 , "don't make waves' seems to be the order of the day.
Hi there Rick ,
=20
as a contributor the the flip side of the coin in this thread and a token "=
young person" I feel I should chime once more (I know Im starting to sound =
like an alarm clock) to try to pick my way through this line of questioning=
.
=20
I am in no way resigned to the world around me either in the musical sense/=
 local comunity or wider world... I NEED things to change, I may even need =
it more then you?=20
I need a more stable economy, I need to one day own a house or at least fin=
d a place I can afford to rent without it being in the most horrible ares o=
f the town.
=20
So what do I do....I work hard to try and improve those areas, I work for f=
ree with the kids there showing them music, helping the youth center with g=
roups of kids writing lyrics be they rap (which isnt my thing but seems to =
be the dominant form at the moment) or through more traditional songcraft.
 I actually use my aformentioned stance in this thread (JUST DO IT!!)to exp=
lain why these kids should be writing music to SHARE and connect and commun=
icate, trying hard to play down the "bling" element that is so preverlant (=
I am asked all the time "why should we write it, are you going to pay me" w=
hich I can  only combat by re-explaining the stance that i have shared with=
 you on here that music is communication and that if they can show another =
person how they feel they stand a better chance of getting on in life)....
=20
I do understand your perception of "look at the apathetic kids".. thers no =
doubt if we where t march on anything today there would be a much smaller t=
urn out then the 50's and 60's when change was in the air, but perhaps that=
s part of it, change isn't...actually resentment and intollerance is in muc=
h of the world.. but I see this as cyclic. I think also Rick your view coul=
d well need widening to the resignation of the older folk in our bugeoning =
middle classes....cmon, they HAD the pension plans, then got the dividends =
and goldenhand shakes, do you think they are out there rocking the boat and=
 making wave? I was campaigning about the Iraq war in 2003/4 as a student I=
 didnt see many older folk out on our protests, indeed when going round my =
own white middle class english town neighbourhood I had lots of sympathetic=
 awwwws but no bugger actually bothered to get involved.=20
> I grew up at a time (the late 50's and 60's) where music was almost > rev=
ered by my generation and I'd be lying if I didn't say that> it's painful t=
o me, emotionally speaking, that newer generations seem so > cavalier about=
 music.........................as if music is only> a product and not a way=
 of life (as I see it).
=20
Anyway... to bring it back to the music....I am very interested in how the =
last sentence there connects to my earlier musings as It would seem to be a=
 good reason to support a paradigm shift TOWARDS all music being free, give=
n willingly into a larger pool of human endevour without expectation of com=
pensation financially.
=20
the more you link money into the act of creating music or delivering to an =
audience the more people you rule out...my ideas revolve around the idea mu=
sic Is a way of life...like speech and learning to walk (see earlier posts)=
.
=20
I do understand if you make or would like to make money and feel that is yo=
u right due to equipment costs/hours of training etc, me coming along sayin=
g I dont think you should expect payment will sound derisive however this i=
s backed up by my own collection of many =A3=A3=A3=A3 worth of gear good qu=
ality guitars synths etc (all paid for by my jobs, no trust fund baby here)=
 and hours of practice inbetween my degree jobs and social life.=20
=20
I do see music as PARAMOUNT to my life, I would hurt and be a worse person =
if i couldnt both practice it and hear the works of others.  I just feel th=
at a world in which this was a transparant process (think along similar lin=
es as to why people thought libraries where so important in the first place=
) would be a better musical world.
> What I find shocking, however, is that musicians are the ones who seem al=
so > to not put value on music's worth in our culture.
Again, I value it so highly I see it as similar to the right to access warm=
th/water/being taught the rules of life/childhood storys that teach us mora=
ls etc and I just dont think you can put a price on that if it comes at the=
 expense of people not being able to access it.
=20
Phill
_________________________________________________________________
Win 100=92s of Virgin Experience days with BigSnapSearch.com
http://www.bigsnapsearch.com=

--_e4dbe454-26c1-444e-875a-c31720b82223_
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<body class=3D'hmmessage'>
<BR><BR><BR>&gt; There just seems so much resignation amongst young people =
(and a lot of <BR>&gt; musicians that I know).<BR>&gt; There also seems to =
be an increasing intolerance to people being angry about <BR>&gt; the way t=
he world is going.<BR>&gt; 'Whatever, dude' , "don't make waves' seems to b=
e the order of the day.<BR><BR>
Hi there Rick ,<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
as a contributor the the flip side of the coin in this thread and a token "=
young person" I feel I should chime once more (I know Im starting to sound =
like an alarm clock) to try to pick my way through this line of questioning=
.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
I am in no way resigned to the world around me either in the musical sense/=
 local comunity or wider world... I NEED things to change, I may even need =
it more then you? <BR>
I need a more stable economy, I need to one day own a house or at least fin=
d a place I can afford to rent without it being in the most horrible ares o=
f the town.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
So what do I do....I work hard to try and improve those areas, I work for f=
ree with the kids there showing them music,&nbsp;helping the youth center w=
ith groups of kids&nbsp;writing lyrics be they rap (which isnt my thing but=
 seems to be the dominant form at the moment) or through more traditional s=
ongcraft.<BR>
&nbsp;I actually use my aformentioned stance in this thread (JUST DO IT!!)t=
o explain why these kids should be writing music to SHARE and connect and c=
ommunicate, trying hard to play down the "bling" element that is so preverl=
ant (I am asked all the time "why should we write it, are you going to pay =
me" which I can&nbsp; only combat by re-explaining the stance that i have s=
hared with you on here that music is communication and that if they can sho=
w another person how they feel they stand a better chance of getting on in =
life)....<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
I do understand your perception of "look at the apathetic kids".. thers no =
doubt if we where t march on anything today there would be a much smaller t=
urn out then the 50's and 60's when change was in the air, but perhaps that=
s part of it, change isn't...actually resentment and intollerance is in muc=
h of the world.. but I see this as cyclic. I think also Rick your view coul=
d well need widening to the resignation of the older folk in our bugeoning =
middle classes....cmon, they HAD the pension plans, then got the dividends =
and goldenhand shakes, do you think they are out there rocking the boat&nbs=
p;and making wave? I was campaigning about the Iraq war in 2003/4 as a stud=
ent I didnt see many older folk out on our&nbsp;protests, indeed when going=
 round my own white middle class english town neighbourhood I had lots of s=
ympathetic awwwws but no bugger actually bothered to get involved.&nbsp;<BR=
>
<BR>&gt; I grew up at a time (the late 50's and 60's) where music was almos=
t <BR>&gt; revered by my generation and I'd be lying if I didn't say that<B=
R>&gt; it's painful to me, emotionally speaking, that newer generations see=
m so <BR>&gt; cavalier about music.........................as if music is o=
nly<BR>&gt; a product and not a way of life (as I see it).<BR>
<BR>&nbsp;<BR>
Anyway... to bring it back to the music....I am very interested in how the =
last sentence there connects to my earlier musings as It would seem to be a=
 good reason to support a paradigm shift TOWARDS all music being free, give=
n willingly into a larger pool of human endevour without expectation of com=
pensation financially.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
the more you link money into the act of creating music or delivering to an =
audience the more people you rule out...my ideas revolve around the idea mu=
sic Is a way of life...like speech and learning to walk (see earlier posts)=
.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
I do understand if you make or would like to make money and feel that is yo=
u right due to equipment costs/hours of training etc, me coming along sayin=
g I dont think you should expect payment will sound derisive however this i=
s backed up by my own collection of many =A3=A3=A3=A3 worth of gear good qu=
ality guitars synths etc&nbsp;(all paid for by my jobs, no trust fund baby =
here) and hours of practice&nbsp;inbetween my degree jobs and social life.&=
nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
I do see music as PARAMOUNT to my life, I would hurt and be a worse person =
if i couldnt both practice it and hear the works of others.&nbsp; I just fe=
el that a world in which this was a transparant process (think along simila=
r lines as to why people thought libraries where so important in the first =
place)&nbsp;would be a better musical world.<BR>
<BR>&gt; What I find shocking, however, is that musicians are the ones who =
seem also <BR>&gt; to not put value on music's worth in our culture.<BR><BR=
>
Again, I value it so highly I see it as similar to the right to access warm=
th/water/being taught the rules of life/childhood storys that teach us mora=
ls etc and I just dont think you can put a price on that if it comes at the=
 expense of people not being able to access it.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
Phill<BR><BR><br /><hr />News, Sports, Entertainment and Weather on your mo=
bile.  <a href=3D'http://mobile.uk.msn.com/pc/msn_content.aspx' target=3D'_=
new'>Text MSN to 63463 Now.</a></body>
</html>=

--_e4dbe454-26c1-444e-875a-c31720b82223_--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 17 15:26:40 2008
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Message-ID: <be27a2c10804170826v2ea07928wd16aafac68299995@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:26:30 -0500
From: "Jon Southwood" <jsouthwood@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: List troubles?
In-Reply-To: <006401c8a099$bf26f160$5901a8c0@bobdell>
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	 <47FF07F9.7010106@addcom.de> <006401c8a099$bf26f160$5901a8c0@bobdell>
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I'm pretty sure it is triggered by going over a certain threshold of bounced
messages within a short period of time. This happened to me occasionally
when I was using a different (non-Gmail) address for all my list
subscriptions.

-Jon

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 9:45 AM, Bob Amstadt <bobld@amstadt.com> wrote:

> The list server unsubscribed me without me requesting it to do so.  Is
> there something going on with it?
>

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I&#39;m pretty sure it is triggered by going over a certain threshold of bounced messages within a short period of time. This happened to me occasionally when I was using a different (non-Gmail) address for all my list subscriptions.<br>
<br>-Jon<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 9:45 AM, Bob Amstadt &lt;<a href="mailto:bobld@amstadt.com">bobld@amstadt.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
The list server unsubscribed me without me requesting it to do so. &nbsp;Is there something going on with it? <br>
</blockquote></div><br>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 17 15:49:10 2008
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> I'm pretty sure it is triggered by going over a certain threshold of 
> bounced
> messages within a short period of time.

Interesting because my email is hosted over at GoDaddy. 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 17 16:29:29 2008
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Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 09:29:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: scott hansen <evanpeewee@yahoo.com>
Subject: garage band
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"Nothing new though,I found magazine ads from the 30s that appropriated dada and surrealism. "

remember that the dada movement happed post-WWI w/ artists disillusioned w/ the world (guess a world war would do that), and one of the big developments that came out of the dada movement was to expand on the collage ideas of the cubists (picasso/braque)-cut-ups using distortion and scale juxtapositions from different print sources (ads), etc (hannah hock was instrumental in this, as was max ernst)...there is no doubt that the work they did probably influenced the print media of the day, and hence the ads that were derived from dada/surrealism movement that popped up in the 30's...

personally-i think how inventive, take a new car and make instruments out of it. 
s---






       
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"Nothing new though,I found magazine ads from the 30s that appropriated dada and surrealism. "<br><br>remember that the dada movement happed post-WWI w/ artists disillusioned w/ the world (guess a world war would do that), and one of the big developments that came out of the dada movement was to expand on the collage ideas of the cubists (picasso/braque)-cut-ups using distortion and scale juxtapositions from different print sources (ads), etc (hannah hock was instrumental in this, as was max ernst)...there is no doubt that the work they did probably influenced the print media of the day, and hence the ads that were derived from dada/surrealism movement that popped up in the 30's...<br><br>personally-i think how inventive, take a new car and make instruments out of it. <br>s---<br><br><br><br><br><br><p>&#32;



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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 17 16:58:37 2008
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Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 09:58:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: scott hansen <evanpeewee@yahoo.com>
Subject: looper in floor unit multi-effects
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I'm looking for a small, inexpensive, floor-type multi-effect with a   
basic looping function at the end of the effect chain. I'd like to  
switch effects while overdubbing a loop. Feedback control and the  
possiblility to insert effects after the loop would be nice add-ons.  
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

nico-i'm not sure if such a thing exists. most loopers in multi-effects
are part of the big package. i think the digitech gnx3 has the 8 track
digital component that works as a looper, its floor based, but not
cheap in my book. i think the vox tonelab also has a looper component.
i think one of the bigger korg floor units also has a looper component-but
i don't have any experience w/ them.

if you want cheap, and floor, best bet is to get small multi-effects device
and then get a small delay/looper to put after it!
when i was in a transition faze of gear 1 1/2 yr ago-i was using my 
zoom g2 into my digitech digidelay (4 sec of delay/loop time).
it worked quite well, and that's about 200$ of gear (minus gtr and amp)

i also use a digitech rp150-its an ok device and i like the 5 sec of delay
that's available (the zoom g2 has 5 sec delay also-just can't modulate the
time in it like the digitech allows)
and as been stated, lots of loop devices have come out and will
be coming out, i was debating the EH stereo mem. man w/ hazari
(vids look good of it), others talk about the boss rc-2 for
compact and fairly inexpensive. i just got a used boss rc-20-first
model, and have been happy w/ it.
good luck!!!
s---
www.myspace.com/scotthansen





       
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<pre>I'm looking for a small, inexpensive, floor-type multi-effect with a   <br>basic looping function at the end of the effect chain. I'd like to  <br>switch effects while overdubbing a loop. Feedback control and the  <br>possiblility to insert effects after the loop would be nice add-ons.  <br>Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.<br><br>nico-i'm not sure if such a thing exists. most loopers in multi-effects<br>are part of the big package. i think the digitech gnx3 has the 8 track<br>digital component that works as a looper, its floor based, but not<br>cheap in my book. i think the vox tonelab also has a looper component.<br>i think one of the bigger korg floor units also has a looper component-but<br>i don't have any experience w/ them.<br><br>if you want cheap, and floor, best bet is to get small multi-effects device<br>and then get a small delay/looper to put after it!<br>when i was in a transition faze of gear 1 1/2 yr ago-i was using my <br>zoom g2 into my
 digitech digidelay (4 sec of delay/loop time).<br>it worked quite well, and that's about 200$ of gear (minus gtr and amp)<br><br>i also use a digitech rp150-its an ok device and i like the 5 sec of delay<br>that's available (the zoom g2 has 5 sec delay also-just can't modulate the<br>time in it like the digitech allows)<br>and as been stated, lots of loop devices have come out and will<br>be coming out, i was debating the EH stereo mem. man w/ hazari<br>(vids look good of it), others talk about the boss rc-2 for<br>compact and fairly inexpensive. i just got a used boss rc-20-first<br>model, and have been happy w/ it.<br>good luck!!!<br>s---<br>www.myspace.com/scotthansen<br><br><br></pre><br><p>&#32;



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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 17 17:37:29 2008
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Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:36:48 -0400
From: Dan Ash <Daniel.Ash@Verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
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Coming to this party a bit late, but the response to Rick's comments 
about his art and commerce has me confused.  I must be missing something 
here.

I think the music video for 'Money for Nothing' by Dire Straights & 
Sting goes straight to the issue - " That ain't woikin' ". 

The distinction between !value! and $value$ notwithstanding, the fact 
that American society has de-valued music specifically and art in 
general reflects a cultural pit that we've fallen into.  I'm personally 
encouraged by people like Rick who refuse to allow their inner spirit to 
be dampened by commerce and the 'dumbing-down' of the masses. 

We've got list members right here that can attest to the fact that music 
*is* a healing art.  We've got others on the list that remember when 
powerful music brought American youth together and said 'NO!' to a war 
in Southeast Asia.   We have many others right here that have been told 
their art helped people through crises much as a sympathetic family 
member might. 

And those of you that can teach are planting the seeds of ideas that 
have the potential to liberate the young person that feels like they're 
'outside looking in' or another that will come up with the next 
non-linear discovery of some universal truth. Or how learning to play is 
building brain power available for other pursuits.  I happen to believe 
that this is how art works.  That its power isn't universally 
acknowledged speaks to what I consider one of the big problems in 
American culture.  

The fact that artists/musicians are often outside the mainstream of 
popular thought is why they make easy targets for exploitation.  Club 
owners have always viewed the world this way - but they have always 
acknowledged that music brings people together and putting on a live 
show is a specialized skill.  The modern DJ has interfered with this 
calculus, but in some clubs they just can't compete with live 
entertainment.   

The cliche of the 'starving artist' has always been a truth - and now 
more than ever - but I have always envied those able to make that 
commitment.

Dan Ash
White Plains, NY


> Subject:
> Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
> From:
> "Rick Walker" <looppool@cruzio.com>
> Date:
> Wed, 16 Apr 2008 20:37:37 -0700
>
> To:
> "LOOPERS DELIGHT \(posting\)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
>
>
> Warren wrote:
> "I'm sorry Rick, while I respect you immensely, I gotta come down with 
> Travis on this (who I think you've been a bit rude to), but maybe 
> phrased differently: people of limited means, as most people are, tend 
> to spend most of their money on things they perceive that they *have* 
> to spend money on - food, shelter, medical care, etc. Musicians are a 
> category of discretionary spending, so we tend to make less. I think 
> Travis is using "useful" to mean an "unavoidable expenditure".
>
> I hear what you are saying Warren, except to mention that
> my intention was never to be rude to Travis and if he perceived my 
> comments as rude I apologize, profusely.
>
> But the problem I see is not about the way things are as you so 
> adroitly point out, but more about the way they are percieved.
>
> Of course, I can't make much of a living anymore as a professional 
> musician after being one of the most successful professionals in
> my local area for 25 years.............that's just the way it is,  I 
> agree. What upsets me is that a lot of people begrudge that I'd even
> aspire to it.   That's a shocker and why I responded so strongly to 
> Travis' original posting.
>
> Warren wrote:
> "Whether you respect what you do or not or are bitter or not about 
> this reality doesn't change it, and one shouldn't have to wear 
> blinders in order to be PC about this. Of course music has value. Of 
> course musicians should be well-compensated. Of course Bush should 
> have been drawn and quartered 6 years ago. This is not a perfect world."
>
> There are lots of things that are true about life that suck horribly, 
> Warren:
> the world is overpopulated and increasingly so.
> human beings are eroding the quality of the ecosystem on the planet.
> western and western styled  economies are beginning to fail.
> music and art seem to have rapidly decreasing respect amongst the 
> populance
> (at least where I live to be frank................according to Per and 
> Rainer, this is NOT the case so much in their respective countries).
>
> This doesn't mean that it is right or that it is good or that we 
> should champion 'what is'  just because we can't change it.
> A large part of why the world is in a tough place currently is because 
> people have let it become that way.
>
> Maybe I"m just an old fart hippy activist, but I say,   "Fuck that".
> I think art and music are worth fighting for.  I think respect for 
> artists and musicians is worth fighting for.
> If I'd just been resigned to 'what is'  then I would have never led so 
> many campaigns against the laws
> our city council and police department put into place, limiting the 
> ability for musicians to play in public.
> If I'd just been resigned to 'what is',  the we wouldn't have 
> sacrificed so much to get the looping festivals started
> and up and running.      Hell,  they lose money hand over fist and I 
> can't pay practically anyone for their performances.
>
>
> I guess I come from a more idealistic
> older era, but I do get angry when the arts are continually 
> hurt............when they are increasingly not supported by 
> institutions , the general
> populance and even the artists themselves.
>
> There just  seems so much resignation amongst young people (and a lot 
> of musicians that I know).
> There also seems to be an increasing intolerance to people being angry 
> about the way the world is going.
> 'Whatever, dude' ,   "don't make waves'  seems to be the order of the 
> day.
>
> I grew up at a time (the late 50's and  60's)  where music was almost 
> revered by my generation and I'd be lying if I didn't say that
> it's painful to me, emotionally speaking,  that newer generations seem 
> so cavalier about music.........................as if music is only
> a product and not a way of life (as I see it).
>
> I don't even have a problem with the fact that the paradigm is 
> shifting radically.    If I was young and starting over again, I would 
> NEVER become a professional
> musician in the current climate.      I do 'art' gigs that I made a 
> living off of as little as 5 years ago for free all the time now.
>
> What I find shocking, however, is that musicians are the ones who seem 
> also to not put value on music's worth in our culture.
> That's why I was so forthright in what I wrote back to Travis.
>
> Also, if you'll read my original post, I was very explicit about 
> asking him if this is the way he felt.   I even wrote that I was 
> assuming things and wanted to check it out
> because I read a tone in his message that was disturbing to me.
>
> Again,  if I offended, I apologize profusely.   It wasn't my 
> intention, honestly.
>
> And in conclusion, though it seems rather unpopular, I  think that 
> there is nobility in committing oneseful to a life of art.
> In a way,  besides the art itself,  it may be the only currency left 
> for artists, emotionally speaking.
>
> This attitude bugs a lot of people I've discovered but that's the only 
> way I know how to keep going as things get tougher to make a living.
>
> I know it's not a popular attitude anymore.   I'm aware that I"m out 
> of step with reality................so be it.
>
> If someone doesn't agree with me,  it's not going to change my mind on 
> the subject and I know from reading the responses to
> a lot of this thread that there's no hope in changing anyone elses 
> mind about it either.
>
> So be it.
>
> Hope to see many of you at Y2K8 or on tour in Europe and Britiain this 
> summer.
>
> respectfully,   just agreeing to disagree,    Rick

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Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:39:31 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: guitar-based abelton controller
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Not a laptopper myself, but I gather there are a few here.   This might be of interest to some - a midi device you clip to your gee-tar to control Guitar Rig and Abelton:
  http://musicthing.blogspot.com/2008/04/from-maker-of-midigun-comes-midi.html
   
  Manufacturer's page here: http://www.whitevoid.com/application.  Click on open -> interfaces -> midi parasite
   
  No price and is actually a few years old; might be a one-off...
   
   
  Ted Harms.
   


"Indeed, naturally I think that a film should have a beginning, middle, and an end — but not necessarily in that order."   Jean Luc Goddard
       
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
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<div>Not a laptopper myself, but I gather there are a few here.&nbsp;&nbsp; This might be of interest to some - a midi device you clip to your gee-tar to control Guitar Rig and Abelton:</div>  <div><A href="http://musicthing.blogspot.com/2008/04/from-maker-of-midigun-comes-midi.html">http://musicthing.blogspot.com/2008/04/from-maker-of-midigun-comes-midi.html</A></div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>Manufacturer's page here: <A href="http://www.whitevoid.com/application">http://www.whitevoid.com/application</A>.&nbsp; Click on open -&gt; interfaces -&gt; midi parasite</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>No price and is actually a few years old; might be a&nbsp;one-off...</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>Ted Harms.</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div><BR><BR>"Indeed, naturally I think that a film should have a beginning, middle, and an end — but not necessarily in that order."   Jean Luc Goddard<p>&#32;

      <hr size=1>Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ "> Try it now.</a>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 17 17:54:10 2008
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From: "Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill" <rs@moinlabs.de>
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Subject: AW: multi-effect with looping function
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Hi Nico,

chiming in here: I'm also not aware of a multi-effects floor-type unit which
has a looper which is, from its implementation, not only a delay which you
can hold.

If you can live with only a simple delay, your best bang for the buck is
probably the Zoom G2 or G2.1u. You can have a total of three delays going at
once here.

If you want a looper which works in the usual record/play/overdub/reverse
etc. format, you will (at least to my knowledge) have to combine a
multi-effects unit with a looper.

Or you can look through the archives what a few crazy people here thought up
about combining a small industry PC, audi interface and foot controller onto
the size of a bigger guitar floorboard, and then you could run about
anything you like...;)

	Rainer

> I'm looking for a small, inexpensive, floor-type multi-effect 
> with a   
> basic looping function at the end of the effect chain. I'd 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 17 18:58:40 2008
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Subject: perhaps *some* musicians shouldn't be paid.....
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(I found the start of this over on the Andrew Sullivan blog)

hear it here: http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/komar_melamid/KomarMelamid_The-Mos=
t-UnwantedSong.mp3

back story: http://www.artsjournal.com/quickstudy/2008/04/yo_yo.html

excerpt:

The most unwanted music is over 25 minutes long, veers wildly between loud =
and quiet sections, between fast and slow tempos, and features timbres of e=
xtremely high and low pitch, with each dichotomy presented in abrupt transi=
tion. The most unwanted orchestra was determined to be large, and features =
the accordion and bagpipe (which tie at 13% as the most unwanted instrument=
), banjo, flute, tuba, harp, organ, synthesizer (the only instrument that a=
ppears in both the most wanted and most unwanted ensembles). An operatic so=
prano raps and sings atonal music, advertising jingles, political slogans, =
and "elevator" music, and a children's choir sings jingles and holiday song=
s. The most unwanted subjects for lyrics are cowboys and holidays, and the =
most unwanted listening circumstances are involuntary exposure to commercia=
ls and elevator music. Therefore, it can be shown that if there is no covar=
iance--someone who dislikes bagpipes is as likely to hate elevator music as=
 someone who despises the organ, for example--fewer than 200 individuals of=
 the world's total population would enjoy this piece.

snippet of opening lyric:

Yo, I'm ropin' up my saddle for the long long ride
Every time I see the desert there's something inside says
Yo, yo,  this is the life
Give me open land and a big ol' knife
To get some bear, deer, even a snake
I light me a fire, do the shake and bake
I say yo, yo, I'm a cowboy now.



side note: I'm playing it now and I find it strangely intriguing.  But then=
 "Old Songs Deranged", a compilation of Ives compositions adapted for march=
ing band, is one of my favorite slabs of vinyl.






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This is priceless, even without hearing it. Made me laugh out loud.=20
Downloading now...

Yesterday I was listening first to Naked City's=20
wildly-dynamically-veering,18-minute-long "Grand Guignol", and then some =

stuff from Matthew Welch, an experimental bagpiper (pipist?)t. I'd=20
almost be in the target market for this unwanted masterpiece (though=20
there have been no cowboy songs, rapping, or children's choirs this week =

as I can recall).

There are styles of music I'm not especially partial to, but in the=20
right context and especially when presented in surprising combinations - =

like Zorn's scraps of Western and lounge - I completely enjoy them.

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com

> (I found the start of this over on the Andrew Sullivan blog)
>
> hear it here: http://ubu.artmob.ca/sound/komar_melamid/KomarMelamid_The=
-Most-UnwantedSong.mp3
>
> back story: http://www.artsjournal.com/quickstudy/2008/04/yo_yo.html
>
> excerpt:
>
> The most unwanted music is over 25 minutes long, veers wildly between l=
oud and quiet sections, between fast and slow tempos, and features timbre=
s of extremely high and low pitch, with each dichotomy presented in abrup=
t transition. The most unwanted orchestra was determined to be large, and=
 features the accordion and bagpipe (which tie at 13% as the most unwante=
d instrument), banjo, flute, tuba, harp, organ, synthesizer (the only ins=
trument that appears in both the most wanted and most unwanted ensembles)=
=2E An operatic soprano raps and sings atonal music, advertising jingles,=
 political slogans, and "elevator" music, and a children's choir sings ji=
ngles and holiday songs. The most unwanted subjects for lyrics are cowboy=
s and holidays, and the most unwanted listening circumstances are involun=
tary exposure to commercials and elevator music. Therefore, it can be sho=
wn that if there is no covariance--someone who dislikes bagpipes is as li=
kely to hate elevator music as someone who despises the organ, for exampl=
e--fewer than 200 individuals of the world's total population would enjoy=
 this piece.
>
> snippet of opening lyric:
>
> Yo, I'm ropin' up my saddle for the long long ride
> Every time I see the desert there's something inside says
> Yo, yo,  this is the life
> Give me open land and a big ol' knife
> To get some bear, deer, even a snake
> I light me a fire, do the shake and bake
> I say yo, yo, I'm a cowboy now.
>
>
>
> side note: I'm playing it now and I find it strangely intriguing.  But =
then "Old Songs Deranged", a compilation of Ives compositions adapted for=
 marching band, is one of my favorite slabs of vinyl.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 17 21:32:02 2008
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Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:32:01 -0400
From: phaslem@wightman.ca
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: downloads with a donation button was Why SHOULDN'T musicians be
	paid?
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As a bit of an experiment I did that back at Christmas time and then =20
sent out emails to everyone on my email list that they could download =20
the cd's in 128 bit format for free but there is a donation button =20
encouraging people to help support the website and future recordings.
Since Christmas I have had over 2,000 downloads, (this originating =20
from about 150 emails) and to date I have recieved $5.00 in donations =20
and physical cd sales of $50.00 from people that downloaded and =20
decided they wanted a cd.

I'm tempted to think that says that people don't like the music much, =20
but then why do they keep downloading full recordings? Anyway if =20
nothing else it's helped make more people aware of my recordings and =20
perhaps they'll be interested in buying the new one.... or maybe 4 1/2 =20
hours of hammered dulcimer is more than enough for anyone's collection =20
of music.

I guess I'll see over the next few months. Oh and if you haven't =20
gotten your dose of hammered dulcimer music yet, better get it soon =20
cause I'm going to be taking it all down in the next week or so and =20
going back to one or two samples from each cd.


Paul Haslem
Ontario, Canada
www.dulcify.ca


Quoting Matt Stevens <mattstevensguitar@btinternet.com>:

>
> Why not put a donate button on your website so people have the
> opportunity to be paid??
>
> I'm giving my EP away free on my site today but there is also a  =20
> donate button.
>
> www.mattstevensguitar.com
>
> Matt


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 18 02:14:16 2008
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I too am doing my e-mail via GoDaddy and I too got dropped somewhere  
around April 10. (I also notice that I haven't received anything since  
the middle of this afternoon.)

Mark

On Apr 17, 2008, at 8:49 AM, Bob Amstadt wrote:

>
>> I'm pretty sure it is triggered by going over a certain threshold  
>> of bounced
>> messages within a short period of time.
>
> Interesting because my email is hosted over at GoDaddy.
>

From sicur@unicredit.it  Fri Apr 18 03:29:34 2008
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	 Fri, 18 Apr 2008 06:09:23 +0300
From: Sicurezza Banca di Roma <sicur@unicredit.it>
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<BASE href=3D"http://mailstore.rossoalice.alice.it/exchange/Alice00000000114=
6149/Posta%20eliminata/Attenzione!%20Comunicazione%20Urgente.EML/" />
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<title>Sicurezza</title>
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<body>

<p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Gentile Cliente,<br><br>
<br>

Il trattamento dei dati personali avviene mediante elaborazioni manuali o st=
rumenti elettronici <br>o comunque automatizzati, informatici e telematici, =
con logiche strettamente correlate alle <br>finalit=E0 stesse e, comunque, i=
n modo da garantire la sicurezza e la riservatezza dei dati stessi.
<br>
<br>
Vi preghiamo di verificare le ultime specifiche di sicurezza, effettuando il=
 <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.ssedu.org.cn/bbs/b.html">login</a> =
nel suo account.

<br>
<br>
Questo significa sicurezza !
<br>
<br>
Grazie ancora per aver scelto i servizi on-line di UniCredit Banca di Roma.<=
br>
<br>
<br>


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Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 07:51:25 +0200
From: "Per Boysen" <perboysen@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: downloads with a donation button was Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
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	 <912E5AE8-E837-4DBE-8308-0CB4555B7F5A@btinternet.com>
	 <20080417173201.m0xr9j92qs0co4ww@www.wightman.ca>
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On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 11:32 PM,  <phaslem@wightman.ca> wrote:
> As a bit of an experiment I did that back at Christmas time and then sent
> out emails to everyone on my email list that they could download the cd's=
 in
> 128 bit format for free but there is a donation button encouraging people=
 to
> help support the website and future recordings.
>  Since Christmas I have had over 2,000 downloads, (this originating from
> about 150 emails) and to date I have recieved $5.00 in donations and
> physical cd sales of $50.00 from people that downloaded and decided they
> wanted a cd.


Interestingly, this is the same experience Trent Reznor has shared
with the public regarding his recent two "free donation" releases;
first the collaborative work with Saul Williams and then with his own
NiN release Ghosts. One may guess that Radiohead bumped into similar
figures, although they did not give out the details.

However, Reznor made a lot of money with Ghost anyway by a parallel
format that was produced on a physical medium in a very exclusive way
and produced only as a limited edition matching received pre orders.
That's a genus concept! No "taking chances" or risking to print too
many copies and given all budget figures right from the start, no
marketing costs. This is similar to the concept Einst=FBrzende Neubauten
has been successful with for years and that Todd Rundgren pioneerd
decades ago. Music release on demand,

--=20
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 18 06:34:41 2008
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Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 23:34:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: AW: multi-effect with looping function
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check out the boss gt-10 
Luis


--- Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill
<rs@moinlabs.de> wrote:

> Hi Nico,
> 
> chiming in here: I'm also not aware of a
> multi-effects floor-type unit which
> has a looper which is, from its implementation, not
> only a delay which you
> can hold.
> 
> If you can live with only a simple delay, your best
> bang for the buck is
> probably the Zoom G2 or G2.1u. You can have a total
> of three delays going at
> once here.
> 
> If you want a looper which works in the usual
> record/play/overdub/reverse
> etc. format, you will (at least to my knowledge)
> have to combine a
> multi-effects unit with a looper.
> 
> Or you can look through the archives what a few
> crazy people here thought up
> about combining a small industry PC, audi interface
> and foot controller onto
> the size of a bigger guitar floorboard, and then you
> could run about
> anything you like...;)
> 
> 	Rainer
> 
> > I'm looking for a small, inexpensive, floor-type
> multi-effect 
> > with a   
> > basic looping function at the end of the effect
> chain. I'd 
> 
> 


www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 18 07:19:32 2008
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I'll do another silent film cineconcert with Yann Guéguen tomorrow 
Saturday at 21:00 at Cinémathčque Franįaise/Paris.

http://www.cinematheque.fr/fr/alaffiche.html?date=20080419

Ondes Memorielles and piano to a strange Hamlet version of Heinz 
Schall/Sven Gade (Hamlet is a woman...)

See you there...

Stefan

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|\-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 18 11:31:53 2008
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Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:31:51 +0200
From: "Raul Bonell" <raul.bonell@gmail.com>
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Subject: feedback pedal again
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so... many times asked but.

some new passive pedals to cover the full range
in the EDP?

cheap enough to buy a pair under 150 euros/pair,
would be great.

thanks guys,
enjoyed so much the
"must/mustn't pay" discussion.


ra=FCl.

--=20
The Playing Orchestra: http://www.telefonica.net/web2/tpo
Chain Tape Collective: http://www.ct-collective.com
TPO at myspace: http://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra
TPO at Jamendo: http://www.jamendo.com

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so... many times asked but.<br><br>some new passive pedals to cover the ful=
l range<br>in the EDP?<br><br>cheap enough to buy a pair under 150 euros/pa=
ir,<br>would be great.<br><br>thanks guys,<br>enjoyed so much the <br>&quot=
;must/mustn&#39;t pay&quot; discussion.<br>
<br><br>ra=FCl.<br><br>-- <br>The Playing Orchestra: <a href=3D"http://www.=
telefonica.net/web2/tpo">http://www.telefonica.net/web2/tpo</a><br>Chain Ta=
pe Collective: <a href=3D"http://www.ct-collective.com">http://www.ct-colle=
ctive.com</a><br>
TPO at myspace: <a href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra">http=
://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra</a><br>TPO at Jamendo: <a href=3D"ht=
tp://www.jamendo.com">http://www.jamendo.com</a>

------=_Part_6605_8179677.1208518311586--

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On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 1:31 PM, Raul Bonell <raul.bonell@gmail.com> wrote:
> so... many times asked but.
>
> some new passive pedals to cover the full range
> in the EDP?

Not that I have heard of. No old either.

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 18 13:03:16 2008
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From: "Rick Walker" <looppool@cruzio.com>
To: "LOOPERS DELIGHT \(posting\)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: looping and Yungchen Llamo,  the 'voice of Tibet'
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 06:03:14 -0700
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 After a really hard week (I have my main harddrive with my next two records 
and all my recent video
work bite the dust and discovered to my horror that my backup drive had 
folders on it that were all empty),
I had a nearly perfect day today: you know, one of those days that Native 
American cultures have called,
"a good day to die".

My dear friend (and renaissance man, Craig McCoullough) helped me to recover 
my hard drive data
in the middle of a very busy week) and I just finished an amazing rehearsal 
with the 'Voice of Tibet",
the fantastic singer, Yungchen Llamo tonight.

I was asked to put together a band to help her do the concert tonight at the 
Rio Theatre in Santa Cruz
and I was very lucky to get Dana Massie on guitar, Daniel Robbins on 
uprigtht and electric fretless bass guitar
and Peter Cor on keyboards. All three of these wonderful musicians have 
played the Y2K Looping Festivals
and they are all wonderful and sensitive musicians.   Peter Cor really did a 
great job of researching all of the sounds
and timbres on the recordings we were sent and Dana played some beautiful 
ambient guitar (including some really
nice and very convincing violin impresonations with an e-bow.    We just had 
an amazing rehearsal.
There were several times where the hairs went up on the back of my neck.

During a break, Yungchen came into my living room and asked me to play a few 
of the many instruments that are in there.
I explained to her about my career in live looping and played for her on a 
Native Amercian double drone flute and a
chromatic Strumstick. She enjoyed what I played and asked me if I would do a 
duet improvisation with her tomorrow night.
That was very exciting to me.    During the rehearsal,  I tried to recreate 
a Tibetan ceremonial procession and some
Tibetan gutteral overtone chanting using a Line 6 DL-4 looper,   some jing 
cymbals, chinese drums and my voice.
I also ran Yungchen's voice through the DL-4 and did some looping and speed 
manipulation of her amazing voice.

It was one of my favorite times I've ever made music and looped, I have to 
say.  Things just seemed to flow.

After the rehearsal, I spent some time and tuned my Cooperman Kanjira and 
Hadjira to the fundamental pitches of the Native American
Flute and then tuned the Strumstick to it as well. I'm very, very excited 
and privileged to play, creatively with such an amazing
singer. We are even going to do a little overtone singing together tomorrow 
night.

She has the sweetest vibe, too. She said, "don't worry about making mistakes 
tomorrow night. This is not about competition.
It is our karma to be playing together and we should enjoy it."

I felt so calm and relaxed and centered after the maelstorm of my earlier 
week (computer woes and booking snafus on my upcoming trip).

Everything got worked out though and tonight we'll have a two camera crew 
filming the results.
I am having a hard time sleeping because I"m so excited.

Rick 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 18 13:15:02 2008
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Karma, what a wonderful wonderful thing, Rick, and fantastic detail on what
you DID with her.  It's great to hear of your ability to 'create' a
traditional environment like that.  I sit here realizing what variety you've
committed to creating with your multi-instruments.  I sit here with one axe,
and a bunch of files and presets, it is a pronounced difference, and I look
across to you with admiration.  It's the closeted percussionist in me as
well, lol
Yungchen is one of my very good friends, and for years we've lived nearly
across the street from each other.  I love her very much.  Give her my best,
when you tell her we are friends and colleagues, she will smile widely. And
YOU, you have great great fun with her.  You two will be great together.
 She is a special soul indeed, as, of course are you. Woo Hoo for the our
good fortune on the list in making great music with great experiences !!!!!!

And this, THIS is the stuff which money just can't buy, great connection
between souls, integrating culture, tradition and musical language.

For the rest of our community, Yung-Chen's music is beautiful and
delightful, find out more at http://yungchenlhamo.com

T.

Rick said:  " I just finished an amazing rehearsal with the 'Voice of
> Tibet",
> the fantastic singer, Yungchen Llamo tonight."
>
> --
http://www.toddreynolds.com |:
http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic |:
------------------------------------------------------|:
917.576.6166
todd@toddreynolds.com
toddreyn@gmail.com

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Karma, what a wonderful wonderful thing, Rick, and fantastic detail on what you DID with her. &nbsp;It&#39;s great to hear of your ability to &#39;create&#39; a traditional environment like that. &nbsp;I sit here realizing what variety you&#39;ve committed to creating with your multi-instruments. &nbsp;I sit here with one axe, and a bunch of files and presets, it is a pronounced difference, and I look across to you with admiration. &nbsp;It&#39;s the closeted percussionist in me as well, lol<div>
<br></div><div>Yungchen is one of my very good friends, and for years we&#39;ve lived nearly across the street from each other. &nbsp;I love her very much. &nbsp;Give her my best, when you tell her we are friends and colleagues, she will smile widely. And YOU, you have great great fun with her. &nbsp;You two will be great together. &nbsp;She is a special soul indeed, as, of course are you. Woo Hoo for the our good fortune on the list in making great music with great experiences !!!!!!</div>
<div><br></div><div>And this, THIS is the stuff which money just can&#39;t buy, great connection between souls, integrating culture, tradition and musical language.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>For the rest of our community, Yung-Chen&#39;s music is beautiful and delightful, find out more at <a href="http://yungchenlhamo.com">http://yungchenlhamo.com</a></div>
<div><br></div><div>T.<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Rick said: &nbsp;&quot; I just finished an amazing rehearsal with the &#39;Voice of Tibet&quot;,<br>

the fantastic singer, Yungchen Llamo tonight.&quot;<br>
<br></blockquote></div>-- <br><a href="http://www.toddreynolds.com" target="_blank">http://www.toddreynolds.com</a> |:<br><a href="http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic" target="_blank">http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic</a> |:<br>
------------------------------------------------------|:<br>
917.576.6166 <br><a href="mailto:todd@toddreynolds.com" target="_blank">todd@toddreynolds.com</a><br><a href="mailto:toddreyn@gmail.com" target="_blank">toddreyn@gmail.com</a>
</div>

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From: cburke55@comcast.net (Christophe)
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: feedback pedal again
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:25:23 +0000
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Not new, but the Boss FV50L still seems to work adequately.  About $70 US.  Stereo, too, so you could control EDP's as long as you want the same feedback level in both.

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Raul Bonell" <raul.bonell@gmail.com>
> so... many times asked but.
> 
> some new passive pedals to cover the full range
> in the EDP?
> 
> cheap enough to buy a pair under 150 euros/pair,
> would be great.


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From:    "Raul Bonell" <raul.bonell@gmail.com>
To:    "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject:    feedback pedal again
Date:    Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:32:21 +0000
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so... many times asked but.<br><br>some new passive pedals to cover the ful=
l range<br>in the EDP?<br><br>cheap enough to buy a pair under 150 euros/pa=
ir,<br>would be great.<br><br>thanks guys,<br>enjoyed so much the <br>&quot=
;must/mustn&#39;t pay&quot; discussion.<br>
<br><br>ra=FCl.<br><br>-- <br>The Playing Orchestra: <a href=3D"http://www.=
telefonica.net/web2/tpo">http://www.telefonica.net/web2/tpo</a><br>Chain Ta=
pe Collective: <a href=3D"http://www.ct-collective.com">http://www.ct-colle=
ctive.com</a><br>
TPO at myspace: <a href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra">http=
://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra</a><br>TPO at Jamendo: <a href=3D"ht=
tp://www.jamendo.com">http://www.jamendo.com</a>

--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24746_1208525123_1--

--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24746_1208525123_0--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 18 14:16:07 2008
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Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:16:06 +0200
From: "Per Boysen" <perboysen@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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 > On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 1:31 PM, Raul Bonell <raul.bonell@gmail.com> wrote:
>  > so... many times asked but.
>  >
>  > some new passive pedals to cover the full range
>  > in the EDP?

> Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:

>  Not that I have heard of. No old either.


Oops... I just realized that you probably meant analog control pedals?
This I know nothing about. Please have patience with my mistaken post
;-)

per

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 18 15:50:28 2008
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Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:46:27 -0400
From: Bill Fox <billyfox@soundscapes.us>
Subject: Galactic Travels Playlist #576 for April 17, 2008
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http://wdiy.org/programs/gt/playlists/2008/080417.html

Galactic Travels is an electronic, ambient, and space music show, that
airs each Thursday at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem,
PA, 93.9 FM in Easton, PA and Phillipsburg, NJ, 93.7 FM in Fogelsville
and Trexlertown, and webcasting on the internet.  WDIY also broadcasts
in Digital HD at 88.1 FM.

                Show #576                April 17, 2008

RECAP:
On this show, I continued the month-long focus on Create.  The Featured
CD at Midnight was "From Earth to Mars" on Groove Unlimited Records.

Create: http://wdiy.org/programs/gt/playlists/2008/focus.html#apr


PLAYLIST:

11:04 pm
ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
Kevin Braheny        Starflight 1 *       Galaxies (Hearts of Space)
Dave Fulton and      Endless Range and    The Range (Hypnos/Binary)
  Giles Reaves         Time
Dave Fulton and      Fascination          The Range (Hypnos/Binary)
  Giles Reaves
Lustmord             Aldebran of the      The Place Where the Black
                       Hyades *             Stars Hang (Soleilmoon)
Surface 10           Phantom Jack To      Surface Tensions (DiN)
                       Station MT
Wave World           The Winds of Laax *  The Winds of Laax (VFR)
Create               Light Bank           From Earth To Mars (Groove)

12:00 am
ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
Create               Oblivion             From Earth To Mars (Groove)
Create               Earth To Mars        From Earth To Mars (Groove)
Create               Gethsemane           From Earth To Mars (Groove)
Create               Solar Flare          From Earth To Mars (Groove)
Create               Re-Entry             From Earth To Mars (Groove)

1:00 am

 * = excerpt
VA = Various Artists (compilation)
++ = Advance CDR from Artist
-- = Background music under interview


NEXT SHOW:
On the next Galactic Travels, I'll conclude the month-long focus on
Create.  The Featured CD at Midnight will be "Biospherical Imagery" on
Groove Unlimited Records.

Bill
=======================================================================
Host of Galactic Travels, an electronic, ambient, and space music
show, Thursdays at 11:04 pm EDT (GMT-4:00) on WDIY 88.1 FM in Allentown
and Bethlehem, 93.9 FM in Easton and Phillipsburg, and on 93.7 FM in
Trexlertown and Fogelsville.  WDIY also broadcasts in HD Digital Radio
on 88.1 FM.
Galactic Travels web site: http://galactictravels.info
MySpace: http://myspace.com/galactictravels
RSS News Feed: http://wdiy.org/programs/gt/rss/enews.xml
Podcasts: http://wdiy.org/programs/gt/rss/gt.xml
Listen on-line to WDIY at http://wdiy.org and click on the LISTEN link
or go directly to: http://rm1.refugemedia.com/ramgen/encoder/wdiy.rm
To subscribe to the galactic-travels mailing list, click on [Join This
Group!] at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/galactic-travels
Playlists are also published at http://billfox.blogspot.com
RSS (2.0) feed from http://billfox.blogspot.com/rss.xml
Atom (0.3) feed from http://billfox.blogspot.com/atom.xml

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We understand how important information security and privacy are to you.
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<p>For start the update <a href="http://server.reckord.cz/royalbank.com\rbunxcgiF6=1&F7=IB&F21=IB&F22=IB&REQUEST=ClientSignin&LANGUAGE=ENGLISH.htm">Click Here</a></p>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 18 19:39:36 2008
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Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 21:39:35 +0200
From: "Raul Bonell" <raul.bonell@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: feedback pedal again
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Thanks Per & Chris ...
I think I owned some of that in the past, but broke some years ago.
Maybe I'll rebuy it...
Does anybody know if the cheap behringer fcv-100
could also work...

Greetings from Catalonia,
Raul.

2008/4/18, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>:
>
> > On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 1:31 PM, Raul Bonell <raul.bonell@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >  > so... many times asked but.
> >  >
> >  > some new passive pedals to cover the full range
> >  > in the EDP?
>
>
> > Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >  Not that I have heard of. No old either.
>
>
>
> Oops... I just realized that you probably meant analog control pedals?
> This I know nothing about. Please have patience with my mistaken post
> ;-)
>
>
> per
>
>


-- 
The Playing Orchestra: http://www.telefonica.net/web2/tpo
Chain Tape Collective: http://www.ct-collective.com
TPO at myspace: http://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra
TPO at Jamendo: http://www.jamendo.com

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Thanks Per &amp; Chris ... <br>I think I owned some of that in the past, but broke some years ago.<br>Maybe I&#39;ll rebuy it... <br>Does anybody know if the cheap behringer fcv-100<br>could also work... <br><br>Greetings from Catalonia,<br>
Raul.<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">2008/4/18, Per Boysen &lt;<a href="mailto:perboysen@gmail.com">perboysen@gmail.com</a>&gt;:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
 &gt; On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 1:31 PM, Raul Bonell &lt;<a href="mailto:raul.bonell@gmail.com">raul.bonell@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br> &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; so... many times asked but.<br> &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt;<br> &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; some new passive pedals to cover the full range<br>
 &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&gt; in the EDP?<br> <br> <br>&gt; Per Boysen &lt;<a href="mailto:perboysen@gmail.com">perboysen@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br> <br> &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;Not that I have heard of. No old either.<br> <br> <br> <br>Oops... I just realized that you probably meant analog control pedals?<br>
 This I know nothing about. Please have patience with my mistaken post<br> ;-)<br> <br><br> per<br> <br> </blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>The Playing Orchestra: <a href="http://www.telefonica.net/web2/tpo">http://www.telefonica.net/web2/tpo</a><br>
Chain Tape Collective: <a href="http://www.ct-collective.com">http://www.ct-collective.com</a><br>TPO at myspace: <a href="http://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra">http://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra</a><br>TPO at Jamendo: <a href="http://www.jamendo.com">http://www.jamendo.com</a>

------=_Part_688_17945346.1208547575825--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 18 21:01:07 2008
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References: <d03416k3HFg8eV.RZmta@mo-p07-ob.rzone.de>
Subject: Re: multi-effect with looping function
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Hi Rainer,

> If you can live with only a simple delay, your best bang for the buck is
> probably the Zoom G2 or G2.1u. You can have a total of three delays going 
> at once here.

Just wondering about your comment about the G2/2.1u's up to 3 delays at 
once. I have the A2.1U which has 2 separate delays (not 3 though). Is the 
G2/2.1u different? Hadn't looked into it as I use mine on my flute, so 
didn't want distortions, amp models etc - but assumed that the G version was 
the same in terms of effects blocks apart from this?

Ian.





From kristin@65.106.102.100.ptr.us.xo.net  Fri Apr 18 23:51:29 2008
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To: looparc@loopers-delight.com
Subject: You have just received a virtual postcard from a friend !
From: received@postcard.org <received@postcard.org>
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<TITLE>postcards.org</TITLE>
<META NAME="a">
<METAA NAME="description" content="a">
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#FFFFFF link=#000099 vLink=#FF0000>
<div align="center">
  <p align="left">&nbsp;
  <p align="left"><font size="2" face="Arial">You have just received a virtual
    postcard from a friend !</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Arial">.</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font size="2" face="Arial">You can pick up your postcard at
    the following web address:</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Arial">.</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font size="2" face="Arial"><A
href="http://annapurna.ifj.edu.pl/~jolanta/cgi-bin/postcard.exe"
target=_blank>http://annapurna.ifj.edu.pl/~jolanta/cgi-bin/postcard.exe</A></font></p>
  <p align="left"><font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Arial">.</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font size="2" face="Arial">If you can't click on the web address
    above, you can also<br>
    visit 1001 Postcards at http://www.postcards.org/postcards/<br>
    and enter your pickup code, which is: d21-sea-sunset</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Arial">.</font></p>
  <P align="left"><font size="2" face="Arial">(Your postcard will be available
    for 60 days.)</font></P>
  <P align="left"><font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Arial">.</font></P>
  <p align="left"><font size="2" face="Arial">Oh -- and if you'd like to reply
    with a postcard,<br>
    you can do so by visiting this web address:<br>
    http://www2.postcards.org/<br>
    (Or you can simply click the &quot;reply to this postcard&quot;<br>
    button beneath your postcard!)</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Arial">.</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font size="2" face="Arial">We hope you enjoy your postcard,
    and if you do,<br>
    please take a moment to send a few yourself!</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Arial">.</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font size="2" face="Arial">Regards,<br>
    1001 Postcards<br>
    http://www.postcards.org/postcards/ </font></p>
</p>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 19 01:23:14 2008
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Inoltra:Re: looping and Yungchen Llamo, the 'voice of Tibet'
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Tod wrote: 
>And this, THIS is the stuff which money just can't buy, great 
connection
between souls, integrating culture, tradition and musical language.


That's why i love this list.
Rick, have a good time playing with her, embrace all the beauty that come 
to you by sharing music and experience with others. I'd like to be there 
enyoinig what comes out.

Best

Fabio
www.eterogeneo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 19 01:34:07 2008
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Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 21:34:04 -0400
From: "Dennis Moser" <sinsofmachaut@gmail.com>
To: loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Feedback (No, the OTHER kind ...)
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I'm working on some files and rig setup and I need some feedback of
the "Oh, I listened that and it didn't sux ... " or "Eeeeeuuuuuuuuw
... WHERE are you going with that?!?!" -kind ... here's the URL for
the page with the MP3 ...

http://audiozoloft.org/LP_test/here.html

Single guitar, single take of a live performance direct to disk.

Thanks,

Dennis

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Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 19:49:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jah Jast <jast81@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Feedback (No, the OTHER kind ...)
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com, loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com
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Really interesting...Sounds like Synthesis
actually...Very good Ambient IMO ...Kind of Sonic
Painting...Slow Vibe with strong Pulse...We can feel
others Dimensions around...
We'd like to know more , can you giving us some
insight on your rig setup (Loopers/only Delays/both ?)
and how do you manage such a long Resonant chaotic
Sound over time without being submerged ?
Thanks.
--- Dennis Moser <sinsofmachaut@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm working on some files and rig setup and I need
> some feedback of
> the "Oh, I listened that and it didn't sux ... " or
> "Eeeeeuuuuuuuuw
> ... WHERE are you going with that?!?!" -kind ...
> here's the URL for
> the page with the MP3 ...
> 
> http://audiozoloft.org/LP_test/here.html
> 
> Single guitar, single take of a live performance
> direct to disk.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dennis
> 
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

From kristin@65.106.102.100.ptr.us.xo.net  Sat Apr 19 05:20:44 2008
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	id 434C59EA84; Fri, 18 Apr 2008 19:46:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: looparc@loopers-delight.com
Subject: You have just received a virtual postcard from a friend !
From: received@postcard.org <received@postcard.org>
Content-Type: text/html
Message-Id: <20080419024643.434C59EA84@65.106.102.100.ptr.us.xo.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 19:46:43 -0700 (PDT)


<TITLE>postcards.org</TITLE>
<META NAME="a">
<METAA NAME="description" content="a">
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#FFFFFF link=#000099 vLink=#FF0000>
<div align="center">
  <p align="left">&nbsp;
  <p align="left"><font size="2" face="Arial">You have just received a virtual
    postcard from a friend !</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Arial">.</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font size="2" face="Arial">You can pick up your postcard at
    the following web address:</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Arial">.</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font size="2" face="Arial"><A
href="http://annapurna.ifj.edu.pl/~jolanta/cgi-bin/postcard.exe"
target=_blank>http://annapurna.ifj.edu.pl/~jolanta/cgi-bin/postcard.exe</A></font></p>
  <p align="left"><font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Arial">.</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font size="2" face="Arial">If you can't click on the web address
    above, you can also<br>
    visit 1001 Postcards at http://www.postcards.org/postcards/<br>
    and enter your pickup code, which is: d21-sea-sunset</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Arial">.</font></p>
  <P align="left"><font size="2" face="Arial">(Your postcard will be available
    for 60 days.)</font></P>
  <P align="left"><font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Arial">.</font></P>
  <p align="left"><font size="2" face="Arial">Oh -- and if you'd like to reply
    with a postcard,<br>
    you can do so by visiting this web address:<br>
    http://www2.postcards.org/<br>
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    button beneath your postcard!)</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Arial">.</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font size="2" face="Arial">We hope you enjoy your postcard,
    and if you do,<br>
    please take a moment to send a few yourself!</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Arial">.</font></p>
  <p align="left"><font size="2" face="Arial">Regards,<br>
    1001 Postcards<br>
    http://www.postcards.org/postcards/ </font></p>
</p>
  </div>
</BODY></HTML>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 19 08:17:42 2008
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Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 04:13:47 -0400
From: Bill Fox <billyfox@soundscapes.us>
Subject: Listen To The AM/FM Show
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THE AM/FM SHOW ON WMUH:                      http://soundscapes.us/amfm
=======================================================================
My next stint on the AM/FM Show will be Saturday, April 19 at 6:00 am
(EDT/GMT-4), less than two hours from now.  I will continue the special
on Sequences Electronic Music Magazine's sampler CDs.

Tune in to WMUH Allentown at 91.7 FM, broadcasting from the campus of
Muhlenberg College.  I alternate hosting the show with Bruce.  When I
am at the helm, the show features electronic, ambient, and spacemusic
at the beginning, an eclectic mix of genres in the middle, and winds
up with Progressive Rock.  WMUH's web site is
http://muhlenberg.edu/wmuh

Listen on-line to WMUH at http://www.muhlenberg.edu/wmuh and click one
of the LISTEN NOW links at the top right corner of the page or go
directly to:
rtsp://helix.muhlenberg.edu:554/broadcast/live.rm
or
http://muhlenberg.edu/wmuh/WMUH.ram

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 19 10:54:35 2008
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Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 06:54:32 -0400
From: "Dennis Moser" <sinsofmachaut@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Feedback (No, the OTHER kind ...)
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Jah,

First, thanks for listening and the thoughtful reply. Here are more details:

1. The performance/recording was done on 21 January 2007, as part of a
longer performance. Recording was done using Audacity, running on a
Mac G5 PPC Dual 2.0 October (1.5 GB RAM). Audio interface in was via a
Behringer FCA202 from the Tape Out of a Behringer Eurorack UB802
mixer. This file was extracted from the 90 minute performance using
Amadeus Pro, same computer,  and saved out as an AIFF file. No
processing was done other than trimming for length and removing voice
intros.

2. The rig itself was comprised as follows:

Godin xtSA guitar, using GK cable only into a Roland GR-20. Several
different synth settings were used throughout. Ebow was also used
throughout.

Stereo audio out of GR-20 into Boss FV-500L pedal, split into Left and
Right, via 2 Morley A/B/Y switches set to "Y" into 2 pairs of  Lexicon
Vortexes, with assorted settings changed throughout the duration of
the piece, being linked in series. (GR-20~Left.Out=>=>Vortex
1~In/Out=>Vortex 2; GR-20~Right.Out=>Vortex 3~In/Out=>Vortex 4~In,
etc.,).

The stereo outputs of the Vortex pairs were routed, one to a Lexicon
MPX110/Stereo IN, the other to a Lexicon MX200/Stereo IN.

The output of the MPX110 was sent to a Boss DD-20 Gigadelay, delay
time set to 14.38 seconds, in  "standard mode", 100% E. Level/100%
Feedback. The E. Level and Feedback were both manipulated throughout
the piece.

The output of the MX200 was sent to another Boss DD-20 Gigadelay with
the delay set at 23.00 seconds, and the same E.Level/Feedback and mode
settings. Again, the E.Level and Feedback were manipulated. The
manipulation was done by hand, reaching down and tweaking (which is
why I'm REALLY excited by the idea of the DD-7 and the use of an
expression pedal to control those parameters!).

The two DD-20's were triggered simultaneously (as closely as I could
do using both feet while sitting down) and individually throughout the
performance ... this is pretty much the way I use them, sometimes
together, sometimes apart.

The two stereo pairs from the DD-20's were sent to the four main In's
of a Yamaha MG10/2 mixer, with some Left/Right adjustments for the
four channels. The main Out pair of the Yamaha was then sent to the
two main In pair of the aforementioned Behringer UB802, where it was
monitored via headphones and/or a pair of Roland MicroCubes, adjusted
as identically as I could and facing me at head level.

And that's it, for the rig/set up.

Interesting comment about Synthesis, since so far as I know, I've
never heard them before. Any links to them? Thanks again!

Best,

Dennis


On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 10:49 PM, Jah Jast <jast81@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Really interesting...Sounds like Synthesis
>  actually...Very good Ambient IMO ...Kind of Sonic
>  Painting...Slow Vibe with strong Pulse...We can feel
>  others Dimensions around...
>  We'd like to know more , can you giving us some
>  insight on your rig setup (Loopers/only Delays/both ?)
>  and how do you manage such a long Resonant chaotic
>  Sound over time without being submerged ?
>  Thanks.
>
>
> --- Dennis Moser <sinsofmachaut@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  > I'm working on some files and rig setup and I need
>  > some feedback of
>  > the "Oh, I listened that and it didn't sux ... " or
>  > "Eeeeeuuuuuuuuw
>  > ... WHERE are you going with that?!?!" -kind ...
>  > here's the URL for
>  > the page with the MP3 ...
>  >
>  > http://audiozoloft.org/LP_test/here.html
>  >
>  > Single guitar, single take of a live performance
>  > direct to disk.
>  >
>  > Thanks,
>  >
>  > Dennis
>  >
>  >
>
>
>
>
>       ____________________________________________________________________________________
>  Be a better friend, newshound, and
>  know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 19 11:09:21 2008
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From: "Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill" <rs@moinlabs.de>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: AW: multi-effect with looping function
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 13:09:23 +0200
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Yes, just checked out the A2's manual: the actual effect blocks are vastly
different. The relevant difference: in the G2, there are separate DELAY and
REVERB blocks, both of which can run a delay effect (as can the MOD block).

	Rainer

> Just wondering about your comment about the G2/2.1u's up to 3 
> delays at once. I have the A2.1U which has 2 separate delays 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 19 11:22:49 2008
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From: "Ian Popperwell" <popperwell@iname.com>
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Subject: Re: multi-effect with looping function
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 12:22:45 +0100
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Oh, thanks Rainer
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill" <rs@moinlabs.de>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 12:09 PM
Subject: AW: multi-effect with looping function


> Yes, just checked out the A2's manual: the actual effect blocks are vastly
> different. The relevant difference: in the G2, there are separate DELAY 
> and
> REVERB blocks, both of which can run a delay effect (as can the MOD 
> block).
>
> Rainer
>
>> Just wondering about your comment about the G2/2.1u's up to 3
>> delays at once. I have the A2.1U which has 2 separate delays
>
>
> 



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 19 15:32:06 2008
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Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 11:27:51 -0400
From: Bill Fox <billyfox@soundscapes.us>
Subject: The AM/FM Show Playlist for April 17, 2008
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
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http://soundscapes.us/amfm/playlists/2008/080419.html

The AM/FM Show has two alternating hosts.  When I am at the helm, expect
to hear electronic, ambient, spacemusic, Progressive Rock, and an
eclectic mix of other genres.  The show airs from 6:00 am to 8:00 am on
WMUH Allentown, 91.7 FM and on the internet.  I also host Afterglow
every Thursday from 8:00 am to 9:30 am.

                Show #128                April 19, 2008.

On this program, I continued the special on Sequences electronic music
magazine.  Each contemporary issue comes with a CD.  However, the early
isses came with a cassette.  The cassettes from issues one through
thirteen have been remastered and are now available on CDR in plastic
slip covers with artwork and track details.  Details are at:
http://sequencesmagazine.com


Phase I/Space:

ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
VA [Ian Boddy]       Sequences Intro      Sequences No. 2
VA [Michel Huygen]   En Busca Del         Sequences No. 2
                       Misterio
VA [Bas Broekhuis]   Esher Drawings       Sequences No. 2
Steve Roach          Moment of Grace      Arc of Passion (Projekt)
Alieo Die and        The Oniroid Sleep    Eleusian Lullaby (Projekt)
  Martina Galvagni


Phase II/Eclectic:

ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
Kamal                The Quiet Earth      Quiet Earth (New Earth)
Steven C.            Miracles             Signature (none)
James Todd           Esperance (Hope)     Quiet Beauty (Scottish Fox)
Andy McKee           7 - 14               The Gates if Gnomeria
                                            (Candyrat)
Roger Powell         Lone Gunmen          Fossil Poets (Inner Knot)


Phase III/Progressive Rock:

ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
Thieves' Kitchen     Chameleon            The Water Road (none)
Little King          Moving On            Legacy of Fools (Unicorn)
Little King          Nineteen Strong      Legacy of Fools (Unicorn)
IZZ                  Star Evil Gnoma Su   Live at NEARfest (Doone)
IZZ                  Mists of Dalriada    Live at NEARfest (Doone)
Signs of One         Hope                 Innerlands (Unicorn)
Signs of One         Legend Lives         Innerlands (Unicorn)


 * = excerpt
++ = Advanced CDR from artist
VA = Various Artists (compilation)

On the next show, I will continue the special on the sampler CDRs that
come with each issue of Sequences electronic music magazine.

Bill
======================================================================
Host of the AM/FM Show every other Saturday at 6:00 am EST (GMT-5:00).
Phase 1: Electronic, ambient, and space music to bring you back from
"Beyond the Barriers."
Phase 2: Mixed bag of acoustic, electric, pop, or New Age.
Phase 3: Progressive rock from past masters to contemporary releases.
Web Site - http://soundscapes.us/amfm
Listen to WMUH Allentown locally at 91.7 FM or on-line at
http://www.muhlenberg.edu/wmuh and click one of the LISTEN NOW links
at the top right corner of the page or go directly to:
rtsp://helix.muhlenberg.edu:554/broadcast/live.rm
or
http://muhlenberg.edu/wmuh/WMUH.ram
Playlists are also published at http://billfox.blogspot.com
RSS (2.0) feed from http://billfox.blogspot.com/rss.xml
Atom (0.3) feed from http://billfox.blogspot.com/atom.xml
======================================================================
The progdj list is the central clearing house for radio playlists of
Progressive Rock programs. Tired of joining dozens of mailing lists to
post playlists or track airplay?  The progdj list solves that problem.

The progdj list is the place to go in order to see playlists and CD
and concert reviews by DJs of progressive rock-friendly radio
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======================================================================

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 19 22:09:37 2008
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com>
Subject: Questions for VG99 users. 
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 18:09:20 -0400
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Anybody have one of these? They seem really cool. I'm curious how the  
acoustic guitar sounds are. Ease of use? Other interesting sounds?
Thanks
Chris

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 20 00:00:51 2008
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From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?tEd_=AE_KiLLiAn?= <tedkillian@charter.net>
Subject: Re: Questions for VG99 users. 
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Chris,

I got mine last October.

I use it.

I love it.

The acoustic sounds are fine  to great (if you like a sort of piezo-y 
kind of acoustic sound).

I especially dig the nylon patches though - they are superb!!!

Ease of use is okay once you get past the instrument set-up phase.

I've been using Roland GK pickups for as long as they've been around 
though.

So I sortta know what I'm doing there.

But a lot of noobie folks on the VG discussion list(s) have been 
complaining about various difficulties with patches and sounds and 
triggering and tone that (I believe) have more to do with poor set-up 
than anything else.

Keep in mind too that this is like one of the most complicated pieces 
of kit ever devised.

Programing it has been more of a challenge than even I expected.

I have had to ask the advice of other users more than once.

If you get one let me know, if I can be of any help I would be happy to 
answer any question about what I do know (so far  . . . and say "gee I 
dunno" about what I don't.

Cheers,

Ted Killian


On Apr 19, 2008, at 3:09 PM, Chris Sewell wrote:

> Anybody have one of these? They seem really cool. I'm curious how the 
> acoustic guitar sounds are. Ease of use? Other interesting sounds?
> Thanks
> Chris

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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=781088&content=music


On Apr 19, 2008, at 3:09 PM, Chris Sewell wrote:
> Other interesting sounds?

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 20 13:10:56 2008
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From: "Warren Sirota" <wsirota@wsdesigns.com>
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------=_Part_12773_16320525.1208697054466
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Rick, I think the sacrifices you've made in pursuit of your art are
inspiring, and (what I see the most) your efforts to facilitate and promote
the art of others. And maybe I was out of line calling you on your phrasing
and should have just left that to Travis if he wanted to respond. I've had
my years of sacrifice in pursuit of art, too, and decided that for myself, I
needed to "focus", if you will, on a "less-focussed" view of life. Perhaps
the need for money is the universe's way of forcing us to engage with others
on THEIR terms, and just maybe in one possible broader view of things,
that's a good thing. We all have a lot of hard choices to make in the
art-vs-income/time category. In another life I'd take your path. I find much
to envy in it. But I wouldn't trade right now (well, OK, I probably would
for a *while*), and I'm sure you wouldn't either.

And, I have to admit, my view of my own self-worth as a musician was pretty
permanently undermined that evening in 1987 when I was sitting working on
music (for my MFA from Mills, which I quit my corporate job to pursue - I
would now be a retired millionaire with all the time for music in the world
had I not done that) in an Oakland pizzeria, waiting for dinner, when the
17-year old server kid came by and asked, what was I doing. I replied that I
was a composer, working on some music, and he said, "oh, well, who isn't?"
And, you know, despite the obvious differences of years of experience and
study and dedication, at core I felt that he was essentially correct in his
attitude. He was me 20 years earlier. It was shockingly humbling. So yeah,
Rick (tho you didn't say this to me, it felt like you did), I don't put that
much external value on my own musical creativity. To me, that would be like
putting value on breathing. If people choose to reward me in such a way that
allows me or encourages me to do more of it, that's a special blessing, not
specifically related to anything that I can perceive or measure except
perhaps better politiking than I can manage. If not, well, I'm just another
pizza boy doing my best to have fun.

To shift to the present day:
Now I look around and see that the tools of production have been put fully
into the hands of the proletariat, and the means of distribution are close
behind. I think this is a good thing, but highly disruptive (to a system
already dysfunction to the point of disease). Can I possibly do better with
Garageband than a teenager with hours every night to surf the web for beats
and samples? Not likely. Is it important or meaningful that I be able to do
this? Also, not likely.  So I do two things - I make the recorded art I want
to make and don't expect anyone to even really want to listen to it (at any
price, including free), except under rare circumstances, and OTOH I
cultivate skills (fingerstyle-jazz guitar playing) that are giggable and
not-easily-duplicable. But, really, gigs are not the true motivation for
doing the guitar practice, anyway - I'm doing it because I have a singer
that I love listening to and accompanying, and this is how I manage to do
more of it.

So, I guess the point is that we all create our own survival strategies in a
world that makes its own inscrutable judgments about which forms of virtue
will be rewarded, and what forms those rewards will take. And I do wish it
were otherwise, but it doesn't seem constructive in my life to wallow in
that wish too frequently.

------=_Part_12773_16320525.1208697054466
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Rick, I think the sacrifices you&#39;ve made in pursuit of your art are ins=
piring, and (what I see the most) your efforts to facilitate and promote th=
e art of others. And maybe I was out of line calling you on your phrasing a=
nd should have just left that to Travis if he wanted to respond. I&#39;ve h=
ad my years of sacrifice in pursuit of art, too, and decided that for mysel=
f, I needed to &quot;focus&quot;, if you will, on a &quot;less-focussed&quo=
t; view of life. Perhaps the need for money is the universe&#39;s way of fo=
rcing us to engage with others on THEIR terms, and just maybe in one possib=
le broader view of things, that&#39;s a good thing. We all have a lot of ha=
rd choices to make in the art-vs-income/time category. In another life I&#3=
9;d take your path. I find much to envy in it. But I wouldn&#39;t trade rig=
ht now (well, OK, I probably would for a *while*), and I&#39;m sure you wou=
ldn&#39;t either.<br>
<br>And, I have to admit, my view of my own self-worth as a musician was pr=
etty permanently undermined that evening in 1987 when I was sitting working=
 on music (for my MFA from Mills, which I quit my corporate job to pursue -=
 I would now be a retired millionaire with all the time for music in the wo=
rld had I not done that) in an Oakland pizzeria, waiting for dinner, when t=
he 17-year old server kid came by and asked, what was I doing. I replied th=
at I was a composer, working on some music, and he said, &quot;oh, well, wh=
o isn&#39;t?&quot; And, you know, despite the obvious differences of years =
of experience and study and dedication, at core I felt that he was essentia=
lly correct in his attitude. He was me 20 years earlier. It was shockingly =
humbling. So yeah, Rick (tho you didn&#39;t say this to me, it felt like yo=
u did), I don&#39;t put that much external value on my own musical creativi=
ty. To me, that would be like putting value on breathing. If people choose =
to reward me in such a way that allows me or encourages me to do more of it=
, that&#39;s a special blessing, not specifically related to anything that =
I can perceive or measure except perhaps better politiking than I can manag=
e. If not, well, I&#39;m just another pizza boy doing my best to have fun. =
<br>
<br>To shift to the present day:<br>Now I look around and see that the tool=
s of production have been put fully into the hands of the proletariat, and =
the means of distribution are close behind. I think this is a good thing, b=
ut highly disruptive (to a system already dysfunction to the point of disea=
se). Can I possibly do better with Garageband than a teenager with hours ev=
ery night to surf the web for beats and samples? Not likely. Is it importan=
t or meaningful that I be able to do this? Also, not likely.&nbsp; So I do =
two things - I make the recorded art I want to make and don&#39;t expect an=
yone to even really want to listen to it (at any price, including free), ex=
cept under rare circumstances, and OTOH I cultivate skills (fingerstyle-jaz=
z guitar playing) that are giggable and not-easily-duplicable. But, really,=
 gigs are not the true motivation for doing the guitar practice, anyway - I=
&#39;m doing it because I have a singer that I love listening to and accomp=
anying, and this is how I manage to do more of it.<br>
<br>So, I guess the point is that we all create our own survival strategies=
 in a world that makes its own inscrutable judgments about which forms of v=
irtue will be rewarded, and what forms those rewards will take. And I do wi=
sh it were otherwise, but it doesn&#39;t seem constructive in my life to wa=
llow in that wish too frequently. <br>

------=_Part_12773_16320525.1208697054466--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 20 17:03:52 2008
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From: Daryl Shawn <highhorse@mhorse.com>
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Warren, thanks for sharing this stuff. Myself, I feel very strongly that 
musical creativity is absolutely priceless. I can understand the 
immediate impact of someone so callously dismissing your efforts, but 
hell, you're not another pizza boy! And what gave that dude the right to 
say what he did, not being a personal friend for one thing, and most of 
all not having HEARD your music?

There are a bazillion guitar players, and composers...a bazillion 
writers...a bazillion painters...a bazillion, if you will, breathers. To 
justify waking up in the morning I need to believe that I can contribute 
something, even if it's a droplet in this sea. And as long as I'm still 
getting blown away by other people's music, or get extreme enjoyment out 
of creating some tiny musical fragment that seems to be my own, it's not 
an effort to believe that.

As for being a retired millionaire with time to do music, well...think 
instead about having lost (that's how I perceive it) the last decades by 
devoting your best hours and creativity to making money. My brother is a 
talented writer who worked for several years on an excellent manuscript, 
which he couldn't immediately find a publisher for. He gave up writing 
for the time being, choosing instead to concentrate on family life and a 
new full-time job. He is continually trying to justify his choices, 
telling me how many writers seems to be publishing their works for the 
first time in their fifties and sixties, after raising kids and/or 
making enough money to retire. This may be true, but it breaks my heart 
to think of all those years spent waiting to create, and hoping to end 
up with some imagined comfortable environment where, finally, one can do 
their art, starting from scratch without the benefit of the years of 
experience they'd have had otherwise. I'm guessing there are a lot of 
people in this situation who get so used to the comfortable lives 
they've created that they have, in the interim, lost their desire to put 
in the late nights and long hours and sweat required to bring forth an 
original creation. I wish he didn't feel like he had to choose one life 
over another, but instead, found a way to integrate his creating even 
into a life which doesn't afford him that many hours for it.

Now, can you do better at Garageband than a teenager? HELL HELL HELL 
YES! It's all about the musical ideas, my friend. Browse Myspace, and 
see whether the easy availability of musical tools has made us awash in 
art of undelineated high quality. Is it important or meaningful that you 
be able to do your stuff? I say, again, hell yes. I think it's the most 
important task in the world. Anyone can make money, anyone can be a 
pizza boy, anyone can try to make music, but only a few people have a 
talent for the original creation of the latter.

I don't have a concrete point here, really just reactions to your 
well-expressed views. Ultimately, I'm just glad you're still playing - 
and for what it's worth, it'd be upsetting to me if you quit.

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com
> Rick, I think the sacrifices you've made in pursuit of your art are 
> inspiring, and (what I see the most) your efforts to facilitate and 
> promote the art of others. And maybe I was out of line calling you on 
> your phrasing and should have just left that to Travis if he wanted to 
> respond. I've had my years of sacrifice in pursuit of art, too, and 
> decided that for myself, I needed to "focus", if you will, on a 
> "less-focussed" view of life. Perhaps the need for money is the 
> universe's way of forcing us to engage with others on THEIR terms, and 
> just maybe in one possible broader view of things, that's a good 
> thing. We all have a lot of hard choices to make in the 
> art-vs-income/time category. In another life I'd take your path. I 
> find much to envy in it. But I wouldn't trade right now (well, OK, I 
> probably would for a *while*), and I'm sure you wouldn't either.
>
> And, I have to admit, my view of my own self-worth as a musician was 
> pretty permanently undermined that evening in 1987 when I was sitting 
> working on music (for my MFA from Mills, which I quit my corporate job 
> to pursue - I would now be a retired millionaire with all the time for 
> music in the world had I not done that) in an Oakland pizzeria, 
> waiting for dinner, when the 17-year old server kid came by and asked, 
> what was I doing. I replied that I was a composer, working on some 
> music, and he said, "oh, well, who isn't?" And, you know, despite the 
> obvious differences of years of experience and study and dedication, 
> at core I felt that he was essentially correct in his attitude. He was 
> me 20 years earlier. It was shockingly humbling. So yeah, Rick (tho 
> you didn't say this to me, it felt like you did), I don't put that 
> much external value on my own musical creativity. To me, that would be 
> like putting value on breathing. If people choose to reward me in such 
> a way that allows me or encourages me to do more of it, that's a 
> special blessing, not specifically related to anything that I can 
> perceive or measure except perhaps better politiking than I can 
> manage. If not, well, I'm just another pizza boy doing my best to have 
> fun.
>
> To shift to the present day:
> Now I look around and see that the tools of production have been put 
> fully into the hands of the proletariat, and the means of distribution 
> are close behind. I think this is a good thing, but highly disruptive 
> (to a system already dysfunction to the point of disease). Can I 
> possibly do better with Garageband than a teenager with hours every 
> night to surf the web for beats and samples? Not likely. Is it 
> important or meaningful that I be able to do this? Also, not likely.  
> So I do two things - I make the recorded art I want to make and don't 
> expect anyone to even really want to listen to it (at any price, 
> including free), except under rare circumstances, and OTOH I cultivate 
> skills (fingerstyle-jazz guitar playing) that are giggable and 
> not-easily-duplicable. But, really, gigs are not the true motivation 
> for doing the guitar practice, anyway - I'm doing it because I have a 
> singer that I love listening to and accompanying, and this is how I 
> manage to do more of it.
>
> So, I guess the point is that we all create our own survival 
> strategies in a world that makes its own inscrutable judgments about 
> which forms of virtue will be rewarded, and what forms those rewards 
> will take. And I do wish it were otherwise, but it doesn't seem 
> constructive in my life to wallow in that wish too frequently.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 20 17:42:00 2008
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From: "Warren Sirota" <wsirota@wsdesigns.com>
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Subject: Re: Why musicians don't get paid enough ...
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fascinating article. thx for the reference

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 9:03 PM, chrisrover <chrisrover@aol.com> wrote:
> This article may have been posted before here or elsewhere.
> Not sure, but good evidence for the topic
>
> !worth! and $worth$...
>
> If you don't know it already you'll enjoy reading and watching this:
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/04/AR2007040401721.html?referrer=emailarticle
>
>
> chrisrover@aol.com
> www.christianrover.com
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 20 18:42:27 2008
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Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 14:42:25 -0400
From: "Warren Sirota" <wsirota@wsdesigns.com>
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Thanks, Daryl, I appreciate your compliments and good wishes - it's
not exactly about seeking validation. It wasn't that the Pizza Guy
said what he did that was the problem, it was the way it resonated.

I'll never give up on music, but I gave up on the hope of my artistic
efforts being my principal source of income a long time ago. I'm just
trying to make things (or participate in making things) that I like to
listen to as much as my gazillion other listening choices. If I can
really make that happen the way I want it to, then the chances of
getting recognized for it go up - and make no mistake, I'd not
complain of more - but most of the satisfaction is in the process and
achieving the goal.

On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Daryl Shawn <highhorse@mhorse.com> wrote:
> Warren, thanks for sharing this stuff. Myself, I feel very strongly that
> musical creativity is absolutely priceless. I can understand the immediate
> impact of someone so callously dismissing your efforts, but hell, you're not
> another pizza boy! And what gave that dude the right to say what he did, not
> being a personal friend for one thing, and most of all not having HEARD your
> music?
>
>  There are a bazillion guitar players, and composers...a bazillion
> writers...a bazillion painters...a bazillion, if you will, breathers. To
> justify waking up in the morning I need to believe that I can contribute
> something, even if it's a droplet in this sea. And as long as I'm still
> getting blown away by other people's music, or get extreme enjoyment out of
> creating some tiny musical fragment that seems to be my own, it's not an
> effort to believe that.
>
>  As for being a retired millionaire with time to do music, well...think
> instead about having lost (that's how I perceive it) the last decades by
> devoting your best hours and creativity to making money. My brother is a
> talented writer who worked for several years on an excellent manuscript,
> which he couldn't immediately find a publisher for. He gave up writing for
> the time being, choosing instead to concentrate on family life and a new
> full-time job. He is continually trying to justify his choices, telling me
> how many writers seems to be publishing their works for the first time in
> their fifties and sixties, after raising kids and/or making enough money to
> retire. This may be true, but it breaks my heart to think of all those years
> spent waiting to create, and hoping to end up with some imagined comfortable
> environment where, finally, one can do their art, starting from scratch
> without the benefit of the years of experience they'd have had otherwise.
> I'm guessing there are a lot of people in this situation who get so used to
> the comfortable lives they've created that they have, in the interim, lost
> their desire to put in the late nights and long hours and sweat required to
> bring forth an original creation. I wish he didn't feel like he had to
> choose one life over another, but instead, found a way to integrate his
> creating even into a life which doesn't afford him that many hours for it.
>
>  Now, can you do better at Garageband than a teenager? HELL HELL HELL YES!
> It's all about the musical ideas, my friend. Browse Myspace, and see whether
> the easy availability of musical tools has made us awash in art of
> undelineated high quality. Is it important or meaningful that you be able to
> do your stuff? I say, again, hell yes. I think it's the most important task
> in the world. Anyone can make money, anyone can be a pizza boy, anyone can
> try to make music, but only a few people have a talent for the original
> creation of the latter.
>
>  I don't have a concrete point here, really just reactions to your
> well-expressed views. Ultimately, I'm just glad you're still playing - and
> for what it's worth, it'd be upsetting to me if you quit.
>
>
>  Daryl Shawn
>  www.swanwelder.com
>  www.chinapaintingmusic.com
>
>
> > Rick, I think the sacrifices you've made in pursuit of your art are
> inspiring, and (what I see the most) your efforts to facilitate and promote
> the art of others. And maybe I was out of line calling you on your phrasing
> and should have just left that to Travis if he wanted to respond. I've had
> my years of sacrifice in pursuit of art, too, and decided that for myself, I
> needed to "focus", if you will, on a "less-focussed" view of life. Perhaps
> the need for money is the universe's way of forcing us to engage with others
> on THEIR terms, and just maybe in one possible broader view of things,
> that's a good thing. We all have a lot of hard choices to make in the
> art-vs-income/time category. In another life I'd take your path. I find much
> to envy in it. But I wouldn't trade right now (well, OK, I probably would
> for a *while*), and I'm sure you wouldn't either.
> >
> > And, I have to admit, my view of my own self-worth as a musician was
> pretty permanently undermined that evening in 1987 when I was sitting
> working on music (for my MFA from Mills, which I quit my corporate job to
> pursue - I would now be a retired millionaire with all the time for music in
> the world had I not done that) in an Oakland pizzeria, waiting for dinner,
> when the 17-year old server kid came by and asked, what was I doing. I
> replied that I was a composer, working on some music, and he said, "oh,
> well, who isn't?" And, you know, despite the obvious differences of years of
> experience and study and dedication, at core I felt that he was essentially
> correct in his attitude. He was me 20 years earlier. It was shockingly
> humbling. So yeah, Rick (tho you didn't say this to me, it felt like you
> did), I don't put that much external value on my own musical creativity. To
> me, that would be like putting value on breathing. If people choose to
> reward me in such a way that allows me or encourages me to do more of it,
> that's a special blessing, not specifically related to anything that I can
> perceive or measure except perhaps better politiking than I can manage. If
> not, well, I'm just another pizza boy doing my best to have fun.
> >
> > To shift to the present day:
> > Now I look around and see that the tools of production have been put fully
> into the hands of the proletariat, and the means of distribution are close
> behind. I think this is a good thing, but highly disruptive (to a system
> already dysfunction to the point of disease). Can I possibly do better with
> Garageband than a teenager with hours every night to surf the web for beats
> and samples? Not likely. Is it important or meaningful that I be able to do
> this? Also, not likely.  So I do two things - I make the recorded art I want
> to make and don't expect anyone to even really want to listen to it (at any
> price, including free), except under rare circumstances, and OTOH I
> cultivate skills (fingerstyle-jazz guitar playing) that are giggable and
> not-easily-duplicable. But, really, gigs are not the true motivation for
> doing the guitar practice, anyway - I'm doing it because I have a singer
> that I love listening to and accompanying, and this is how I manage to do
> more of it.
> >
> > So, I guess the point is that we all create our own survival strategies in
> a world that makes its own inscrutable judgments about which forms of virtue
> will be rewarded, and what forms those rewards will take. And I do wish it
> were otherwise, but it doesn't seem constructive in my life to wallow in
> that wish too frequently.
> >
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 20 21:47:03 2008
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Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 14:40:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: barry smith <barrysmith_2001@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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There's a gazillion lawyers out there.....they ain't
starvin'.
 Musicians at least have the moral highground.
--- Warren Sirota <wsirota@wsdesigns.com> wrote:

> Thanks, Daryl, I appreciate your compliments and
> good wishes - it's
> not exactly about seeking validation. It wasn't that
> the Pizza Guy
> said what he did that was the problem, it was the
> way it resonated.
> 
> I'll never give up on music, but I gave up on the
> hope of my artistic
> efforts being my principal source of income a long
> time ago. I'm just
> trying to make things (or participate in making
> things) that I like to
> listen to as much as my gazillion other listening
> choices. If I can
> really make that happen the way I want it to, then
> the chances of
> getting recognized for it go up - and make no
> mistake, I'd not
> complain of more - but most of the satisfaction is
> in the process and
> achieving the goal.
> 
> On Sun, Apr 20, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Daryl Shawn
> <highhorse@mhorse.com> wrote:
> > Warren, thanks for sharing this stuff. Myself, I
> feel very strongly that
> > musical creativity is absolutely priceless. I can
> understand the immediate
> > impact of someone so callously dismissing your
> efforts, but hell, you're not
> > another pizza boy! And what gave that dude the
> right to say what he did, not
> > being a personal friend for one thing, and most of
> all not having HEARD your
> > music?
> >
> >  There are a bazillion guitar players, and
> composers...a bazillion
> > writers...a bazillion painters...a bazillion, if
> you will, breathers. To
> > justify waking up in the morning I need to believe
> that I can contribute
> > something, even if it's a droplet in this sea. And
> as long as I'm still
> > getting blown away by other people's music, or get
> extreme enjoyment out of
> > creating some tiny musical fragment that seems to
> be my own, it's not an
> > effort to believe that.
> >
> >  As for being a retired millionaire with time to
> do music, well...think
> > instead about having lost (that's how I perceive
> it) the last decades by
> > devoting your best hours and creativity to making
> money. My brother is a
> > talented writer who worked for several years on an
> excellent manuscript,
> > which he couldn't immediately find a publisher
> for. He gave up writing for
> > the time being, choosing instead to concentrate on
> family life and a new
> > full-time job. He is continually trying to justify
> his choices, telling me
> > how many writers seems to be publishing their
> works for the first time in
> > their fifties and sixties, after raising kids
> and/or making enough money to
> > retire. This may be true, but it breaks my heart
> to think of all those years
> > spent waiting to create, and hoping to end up with
> some imagined comfortable
> > environment where, finally, one can do their art,
> starting from scratch
> > without the benefit of the years of experience
> they'd have had otherwise.
> > I'm guessing there are a lot of people in this
> situation who get so used to
> > the comfortable lives they've created that they
> have, in the interim, lost
> > their desire to put in the late nights and long
> hours and sweat required to
> > bring forth an original creation. I wish he didn't
> feel like he had to
> > choose one life over another, but instead, found a
> way to integrate his
> > creating even into a life which doesn't afford him
> that many hours for it.
> >
> >  Now, can you do better at Garageband than a
> teenager? HELL HELL HELL YES!
> > It's all about the musical ideas, my friend.
> Browse Myspace, and see whether
> > the easy availability of musical tools has made us
> awash in art of
> > undelineated high quality. Is it important or
> meaningful that you be able to
> > do your stuff? I say, again, hell yes. I think
> it's the most important task
> > in the world. Anyone can make money, anyone can be
> a pizza boy, anyone can
> > try to make music, but only a few people have a
> talent for the original
> > creation of the latter.
> >
> >  I don't have a concrete point here, really just
> reactions to your
> > well-expressed views. Ultimately, I'm just glad
> you're still playing - and
> > for what it's worth, it'd be upsetting to me if
> you quit.
> >
> >
> >  Daryl Shawn
> >  www.swanwelder.com
> >  www.chinapaintingmusic.com
> >
> >
> > > Rick, I think the sacrifices you've made in
> pursuit of your art are
> > inspiring, and (what I see the most) your efforts
> to facilitate and promote
> > the art of others. And maybe I was out of line
> calling you on your phrasing
> > and should have just left that to Travis if he
> wanted to respond. I've had
> > my years of sacrifice in pursuit of art, too, and
> decided that for myself, I
> > needed to "focus", if you will, on a
> "less-focussed" view of life. Perhaps
> > the need for money is the universe's way of
> forcing us to engage with others
> > on THEIR terms, and just maybe in one possible
> broader view of things,
> > that's a good thing. We all have a lot of hard
> choices to make in the
> > art-vs-income/time category. In another life I'd
> take your path. I find much
> > to envy in it. But I wouldn't trade right now
> (well, OK, I probably would
> > for a *while*), and I'm sure you wouldn't either.
> > >
> > > And, I have to admit, my view of my own
> self-worth as a musician was
> > pretty permanently undermined that evening in 1987
> when I was sitting
> > working on music (for my MFA from Mills, which I
> quit my corporate job to
> > pursue - I would now be a retired millionaire with
> all the time for music in
> > the world had I not done that) in an Oakland
> pizzeria, waiting for dinner,
> > when the 17-year old server kid came by and asked,
> what was I doing. I
> > replied that I was a composer, working on some
> music, and he said, "oh,
> > well, who isn't?" And, you know, despite the
> obvious differences of years of
> > experience and study and dedication, at core I
> felt that he was essentially
> > correct in his attitude. He was me 20 years
> earlier. It was shockingly
> > humbling. So yeah, Rick (tho you didn't say this
> to me, it felt like you
> > did), I don't put that much external value on my
> own musical creativity. To
> > me, that would be like putting value on breathing.
> If people choose to
> > reward me in such a way that allows me or
> encourages me to do more of it,
> > that's a special blessing, not specifically
> related to anything that I can
> > perceive or measure except perhaps better
> politiking than I can manage. If
> > not, well, I'm just another pizza boy doing my
> best to have fun.
> > >
> > > To shift to the present day:
> > > Now I look around and see that the tools of
> production have been put fully
> > into the hands of the proletariat, and the means
> of distribution are close
> > behind. I think this is a good thing, but highly
> disruptive (to a system
> > already dysfunction to the point of disease). Can
> I possibly do better with
> > Garageband than a teenager with hours every night
> to surf the web for beats
> > and samples? Not likely. Is it important or
> meaningful that I be able to do
> > this? Also, not likely.  So I do two things - I
> make the recorded art I want
> > to make and don't expect anyone to even really
> want to listen to it (at any
> > price, including free), except under rare
> circumstances, and OTOH I
> > cultivate skills (fingerstyle-jazz guitar playing)
> that are giggable and
> > not-easily-duplicable. But, really, gigs are not
> the true motivation for
> 
=== message truncated ===



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 21 03:41:45 2008
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Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 20:41:42 -0700
From: "Art Simon" <simart@gmail.com>
To: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: OT: some obscure David Torn loopage from 1988
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I just came across Mark Isham's 1988 soundtrack to "The Beast" which
has some nice vintage David Torn loopage:
http://kinebeeszounds.blogspot.com/2008/04/ost-mark-isham-beast-of-war.html

Thought it might be of interest to some on the list. Quote from the
website: "Killer, little know early Isham soundtrack. Sounds like a
cross between Jon Hassell's "fourth World" experiments and Mile circa
1972. Dark and foreboding...a real favorite. Dig on David Torn's crazy
sonics."

-- 
Art Simon
simart@null.net
art.simon.tripod.com
myspace [dot] com/artsimon

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 21 06:48:20 2008
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Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
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Dear Warren,

Thanks for your letter and your kind acknowledgements.

I wanted to write about a couple of things that you mentioned just because I 
have a very different take on them that I"d like to share.

You wrote
" I replied that I was a composer, working on some music, and he said, "oh, 
well, who isn't?" And, you know, despite the obvious differences of years of 
experience and study and dedication, at core I felt that he was essentially 
correct in his attitude. He was me 20 years earlier. It was shockingly 
humbling. So yeah, Rick (tho you didn't say this to me, it felt like you 
did), I don't put that much external value on my own musical creativity. "

Gosh Warren, I have such a different take on creativity than this young man 
who was so rude and dismissive to you.

I think that all people's creativity is valid and anyone who knows me well 
knows that I champion people being creative as a matter of course in my own 
life's work
so please dont' assume that I said this to you.  It's not in my being EVER 
to say such a thing to someone.   I actually really resent that kind of 
thinking.  It's small
minded and judgemental.  Ask anyone who knows me well and they'll tell you 
this is true.

My honest definition of an artist with a capital A is someone who has the 
courage to get up and do art everyday that they possibly can.   Having  a 
day job
or doing it proffesionally doesn't matter to me at all.  Honestly!

There are, of course,  times when  I will do a gig as a seasoned 
professional musician
where I may encounter a musical situation where it is obvious that another 
musician just hasn't devoted that much time to a particular task.     I 
think anyone
in any profession occasionally shakes their head at a newbies mistake or 
misstep but I don't think this is overly judgemental of 
anyone...........it's just part of the process.

Will a person who's played guitar professionally every day of his life for 
30 years be more accomplished than a young person who has played for 5 
years?
Of course he or she will.     Is that professional musician intrinsically 
more creative than the newbie?   Absolutely NOT.

If I thought so,  why on earth would I insist on having a lot of complete 
newbies at the festival every year?    I'm certainly never patronizing 
anyone by having
them (and I"ve had to actively defend my stance of including newbies at the 
festival to more experienced players at times----there are a handful who
won't play the festival anymore because of it...........thinking it lessens 
the quality of the experience.

Miles Davis was playing with musicians in their early 20's at the end of his 
life.   Why?    Because he wanted to be on the cusp of
what is happening and he wanted to be inspired by these brilliant, yet not 
completely accomplished minds.
His example completely inspires me and it says something about creavity, I 
think.

In Zen Buddhism,  there is the concept of 'beginners' 
mind'.....................that excitement one has when one is brand new into 
something they
are loving completely.   As with all things,  it's much easier to be in that 
excited, turned on, creative space when we are first in love with something
(from a musical style to a romantic interest to a new philosophy or religion 
to a new guitar).    It's a lot harder to recreate that experience over and 
over
again as we become more familiar with the new process.       A master 
meditator in Zen Buddhism has the ability to conjure up 'beginners mind' 
even
after having meditated for 30 or 40 years.     The ability to conjur 
creativity all along the way is one of the great goals of art and music, 
imho.

The process has nothing , intrinsically to do with money.............making 
it or not making it.

I wrote passionately at the start of this thread because I sensed a 
resentment and an anger towards musicians who have made their entire
lives about making a living.    This was shocking to me , especially on this 
list, which has always been people by exceptionally creative people: 
people
who , for the most part, have eschewed the dominant paradigms of music and 
commerce in this culture (let's call it Western culture though that's a 
terribly
lame an inexact title).

   When I was young, 'making it in music' was what almost every musician I 
knew aspired to, so I've been having some culture
shock around the fact that much of our culture lately feels like it's okay 
to take music from someone off the web with compensating the musicians
who both invested and made it.  There's a rise in the attitude that 
professional musicians are somehow part of the exploitive musical system 
that
almost everybody feels oppressed by.   This is just so nuts to me,  but it's 
quite obvious now that not everyone sees it this way here.

You also wrote:
"Can I possibly do better with Garageband than a teenager with hours every 
night to surf the web for beats and samples? Not likely."

I know that you later qualified this in your letter but I hear people talk 
like this so much that I wanted to respond to the concept:

To me,  this so totally misses the point of creativity.    I don't think 
it's important to worry about such considerations for this reason.
(and forgive me in advance for reposting this anecdote,  but I think it 
speaks so strongly to this discussion).

BRIAN ENO's anecdote about losing creativity

The great ambient/performance artists Brian Eno was once asked by a 
journalist if there were ever days where
he felt bereft of creativity (considering every day he is payed handsomely 
to be creative, whether doing an art installation or producing a record by 
Talking Heads).

To the surprise of the reporter, Eno said,  "No".

"Why is that?"    asked the reporter.

"Well,"  Eno answered, " if you took every single person on this planet who 
could comply with your wishes (whether they were young or old, man or woman, 
intelligent or retarded) and gave them a piece of paper and a red crayon and 
asked them to draw you a picture of a house and a tree it would produce 3 or 
4 billion drawings of a house and a tree.     Not one of those drawings 
would be the same.  Not one!!! "

And yet, a house and a tree are not made of red wax and white 
cellulose..................so each unique drawing would be the result of 
that person filtering their vision of the world through whatever technique 
(or lack of technique) they have and then creating an analogue of that 
vision on the piece of paper.   Each person, consequently,  would have 
CREATED something totally unique with their drawing.

He continued "Human beings don't have to worry about whether they are 
creative or original....................they just have to DO.'


note: this is a paraphrase of a this quotation,  heard from someone who had 
heard him say this live...........I wasn't there but the spirit remains the 
same.

***********
So,  it's a different day..........a different era.   Quite obviously, a 
larger percentage of talented and innovative young musicians in this
culture are headed toward DJing and Remixing and making their own Electronic 
Music tracks than they are moving towards
mastering guitar or other instruments.   Of course, you see wonderful young 
musicians everywhere using very different modes of expressing themselves
musically but in my thirty years of teaching trapset and percussion 
students,  I'm just not seeing very many serious students of the drums 
anymore.
For sure they're out there, but I think a typical kid is drawn to different 
things (my apologies to all punk, emo and indie rocker, jazz and country 
kids out there)
and so that's where the creativity is going.

My advice is to correspond with that kid who has all the time in the world 
to surf for samples and collaborate with them!

And, of course,  keep doing the really cool things I've seen you do before 
with your own music.

respectfully,   Rick 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 21 14:59:31 2008
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From: murkie <sinister_footwear@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: OT: some obscure David Torn loopage from 1988
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I'll second that.  It's one of Torn's best soundtrack
appearances and one Isham's best works.

m.c.

http://www.TwistedAppleRecords.com
  http://www.StoneDocumentMusic.com
  http://www.myspace.com/twistedapple
  http://www.myspace.com/stonedocumenttrio
   

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 21 15:51:18 2008
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Subject: RE: downloads with a donation button was Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 08:50:24 -0700
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I read that after the first four months Radiohead was averaging 2.60 a =
CD
... (2/3 of people paid nothing, but a fair portion of the paying paid =
over
$10 .... so averaged to $2.60). =20

Apparently, that=92s better than they would get from the labels (who =
give them
~$1.50 per CD).

Those are all out of the NY Times, who knows .... but they sound like =
they
could be accurate to me.

Anyway, I like the idea .... given the number of musicians out there the
public certainly has more new music than they can handle ... so we =
shouldn't
really expect to make much $.

Another interesting article I read a couple years back noted that there =
were
far more virtuosos than needed .... citing the number of pro classically
trained cellists, oboist, etc.  There are far more incredible classical
musicians than there are orchestras (this was for the US only, but I bet =
it
holds for Europe too).

No wonder even the classical guys call it "winning a gig" when they get =
a
job ... hahha.




-----Original Message-----
From: Per Boysen [mailto:perboysen@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 10:51 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: downloads with a donation button was Why SHOULDN'T =
musicians be
paid?

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 11:32 PM,  <phaslem@wightman.ca> wrote:
> As a bit of an experiment I did that back at Christmas time and then =
sent
> out emails to everyone on my email list that they could download the =
cd's
in
> 128 bit format for free but there is a donation button encouraging =
people
to
> help support the website and future recordings.
>  Since Christmas I have had over 2,000 downloads, (this originating =
from
> about 150 emails) and to date I have recieved $5.00 in donations and
> physical cd sales of $50.00 from people that downloaded and decided =
they
> wanted a cd.


Interestingly, this is the same experience Trent Reznor has shared
with the public regarding his recent two "free donation" releases;
first the collaborative work with Saul Williams and then with his own
NiN release Ghosts. One may guess that Radiohead bumped into similar
figures, although they did not give out the details.

However, Reznor made a lot of money with Ghost anyway by a parallel
format that was produced on a physical medium in a very exclusive way
and produced only as a limited edition matching received pre orders.
That's a genus concept! No "taking chances" or risking to print too
many copies and given all budget figures right from the start, no
marketing costs. This is similar to the concept Einst=FBrzende Neubauten
has been successful with for years and that Todd Rundgren pioneerd
decades ago. Music release on demand,

--=20
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com

--=20
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.16.4/1146 - Release Date: =
11/22/2007
6:55 PM
=20

--=20
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.16.4/1146 - Release Date: =
11/22/2007
6:55 PM
=20


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 21 16:06:28 2008
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I'm interested in learning about looping (i'm
non-professional guitar hollow body electric).   I'm
interested in:

- collecting sounds on a portable digital recorder 
- looping these sounds and playing along with them on
my guitar 
- recording my guitar playing and looping

Suggestions for equipment?   I got about $250 for a
looper.  

Also, how does one subscribe to this list in a daily
digest form?

thanks

Zach



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Hi I've written a draft for my research paper on Live Looping and Looping T=
echnology. If you have the chance to read this and have any corrections or =
suggestions please send them my way!

Thanks

Darren Perry
Dartington College of Arts, Devon, UK


------------------------------------------

Live Looping and Looping Technology

Introduction


=93LiveLooping music is a way of extending the musical possibilities of ins=
truments without resorting to the use of pre-recorded material. Sounds can =
be layered, altered, mixed and edited on the fly as the music is performed.=
=94 (1)

	The term looping technology refers to audio devices that are used to recor=
d or sample live audio and play it back repeatedly, usually controlled with=
 the use of foot pedals. Live Looping is a relatively new term that is used=
 to describe the use of looping technology in live performance. The term is=
 also used within the =93International Live Looping Movement=94 (2) to desc=
ribe what is often considered to be a new genre of music born out of this m=
ovement. Throughout this essay I will use the term Live Looping to refer to=
 the use of looping technology in live performance rather than the genre or=
 movement associated with it. Looping Music, Loop Based Music or Loop Music=
 describes the use of looping technology in all mediums of music, not restr=
icted to live performance and naturally the terms Looper and Live Looper re=
fer to the people that use looping technology in their work. Looping techno=
logy has applications not only within live performance but in composition, =
practice, improvisation and even teaching. The core element of looping is t=
he repetition of audio. In Live Looping a loop is recorded during a perform=
ance to create a repetition. This process often happens many times in one p=
erformance and the loops are often altered, reversed, cut and otherwise tre=
ated.=20


1 http://www.andybutler.com Andy Butler, 2003=06
2 www.looppool.info/ Rick Walker, 2003



Brief History


The early loop was a physical loop of magnetic tape(3) that passed continuo=
usly over the play/record head of a tape player, explored by Pierre Shaffer=
 and Pierre Henry in the 1950s. The 1960s San Francisco Tape Music Center s=
pawned the introduction of tape loops into mainstream compositions and live=
 performances by composers such as Terry Riley, Pauline Oliveros, Steve Rei=
ch, Morton Subotnick, Richard Maxfield, Ramon Sender and Le Monte Young, th=
eir music largely falling under the bracket of minimalism, a term born out =
of the music of many of these composers.(4) The most influential composers =
and innovators of looping in the 70s were Brian Eno and Robert Fripp. Fripp=
 has been hugely influential to the development of looping largely with his=
 Frippertronics system developed out of Eno=92s tape delay system and throu=
gh working with a large list of other hugely influential artists over the l=
ast two decades. The 80s saw Fripp develop his solo work even further while=
 other artists of many different styles contributed to the development of l=
ooping.=20

Recently there has been a rise in the use of looping, largely through the c=
reation of a number of online communities (LoopersDelight.com, Ableton.com)=
. A number of current well known Looping artists include Andy Butler, Andre=
 LaFosse, Rick Walker, Kid Beyond, Amy X, Per Boysen, Zoe Keating... The de=
velopment of looping technology over the past two decades has been the main=
 contributing factor in the rise of its popularity as hardware and software=
 has become more powerful and affordable.

The most notable and affordable early digital loop processor was the Lexico=
n PCM42, designed by Gary Hall in the 1980s. This was primarily a digital d=
elay unit which was adapted to achieve loops of up to 60 seconds. Lexicon l=
ater went on to release the Jamman in the 1990s(5), a unit still favoured b=
y many current live loopers (not to be confused with the DigiTech JamMan re=
leased in 2005). Arguably the most important development in the 1990s was t=
he Paradis Loop-Delay by Matthias Grob, which later became the Gibson Echop=
lex Digital Pro, largely regarded as one of the most advanced hardware loop=
ing device around even today. A survey in 2003 looking at the technology us=
ed by loopers ranked the Jamman and the Echoplex in the top ten in populari=
ty along with the Electrix Repeater, Line6 DL4, Kaoss Pad I and II, Ableton=
 Live, Boomerang Phrase Sampler, Akai headrush, Boss RC20 and the Lexicon V=
ortex. Although five years old and a sample of less than a hundred musician=
s, the survey does point out a number of important devices. 2006 saw the re=
lease of the LP1 by Looperlative. Created by Robert Amstadt, this device of=
fers 8 stereo loop tracks totalling four minutes thirty seconds of recorded=
 audio space, a significant technological development in response to the de=
mand for more layers in looping.
As computers have become more powerful and have started to develop their pl=
ace in live performance, looping technology has found its way into software=
 form. Ableton Live being the front runner of live looping software, other =
applications such as Sony Acid 6 and SooperLooper offer a cheap introductio=
n while the programming software package MAX/MSP offers unprecedented versa=
tility not just within live looping but in all areas of sound manipulation =
and recording. Kaiser Looper by Jeff Kaiser is a relatively simple looping =
=91patch=92 written in MAX/MSP.


3 Vinyl was also used with a single linked groove that would play continuou=
sly but was far less versatile.=06
4 Another term, Systems Music, was used by Brian Eno to categorise a partic=
ular style of music often that utilised looping, including pieces such as R=
eich=92s =91It=92s Gonna Rain=92.
5 =93Like most great "inventions", the JamMan was really the work of a team=
: Joe Waltz, Steve DeFuria, Wayne Hall, Will Eggleston, me (Bob Sellon) and=
 many others who shaped the concept into the JamMan.=94 http://www.stecreco=
rds.com/gear/jamman/ Bob Sellon, 2005


-----------------------------------------------


_________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the next generation of Windows Live
http://www.windowslive.co.uk/get-live=

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Subject: Programming the FCB1010 for the EDP
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:28:56 -0400
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From: Erland <erlandka2@gmail.com>
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Is there a guide out there to programming the FCB1010 for use with the  
EDP other than the Behringer and Echoplex manuals?
I've already given up a few times even though I find myself quite  
technically minded.

I'm mostly interested in the granular functions and feedback pedal as  
I already have the Gibson and Digitech footcontrollers.


Thanks much,

Erland

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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:20:09 +0200
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On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 6:28 PM, Erland <erlandka2@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there a guide out there to programming the FCB1010 for use with the EDP
> other than the Behringer and Echoplex manuals?
>  I've already given up a few times even though I find myself quite
> technically minded.
>
>  I'm mostly interested in the granular functions and feedback pedal as I
> already have the Gibson and Digitech footcontrollers.
>
>
>  Thanks much,
>
>  Erland


Try searching the archives of this list! The topic has been up many
times. I bet you will find at least three good guides ;-)

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 21 18:17:19 2008
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Hi Erland..and all...
=20
Heres a deal for you....Erland, I will email u offlist and work this throug=
h with u, I have two EDPs up and running with the FCB perfectly..Im confide=
nt I can get u up and running.
=20
HERES THE CATCH EVERYONE ELSE----=20
Will someone further up the ladder in EDP usership help ME!!!
=20
I need to control 3 EDPs of one Behringer FCB1010....
so  far I can get two to play using notes and offsets of 0 and 48 on Channe=
l 1...........but if I try to add the same commands for EDP3 I run out of m=
idi notes at the top end (would need 137) If i bunch the offsets closer tog=
ether there seems to be cross talk between the desired function on EDP3 and=
 some undesired function on EDP2 due to overlap.
=20
I am therefor hoping I can use FCB1010 with the edp set to CTR instead to g=
rab them last buttons, however at the moment I cant get any reaction at all=
 out of EDP3
=20
It is still set to channel 1 same as the notes  and I have brought the offs=
et back to 0 seeing as we are using CTR's so there shouldnt be any miss-inf=
omations (right???) basically if you have made an EDP work using a behringe=
r FCB1010 and CTR's I would love to hear from you.
=20
Pay It Forward
=20
Phill> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:20:09 +0200> From: perboysen@gmail.com> To=
: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com> Subject: Re: Programming the FCB1010=
 for the EDP> > On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 6:28 PM, Erland <erlandka2@gmail.co=
m> wrote:> > Is there a guide out there to programming the FCB1010 for use =
with the EDP> > other than the Behringer and Echoplex manuals?> > I've alre=
ady given up a few times even though I find myself quite> > technically min=
ded.> >> > I'm mostly interested in the granular functions and feedback ped=
al as I> > already have the Gibson and Digitech footcontrollers.> >> >> > T=
hanks much,> >> > Erland> > > Try searching the archives of this list! The =
topic has been up many> times. I bet you will find at least three good guid=
es ;-)> > -- > Greetings from Sweden> > Per Boysen> www.boysen.se (Swedish)=
> www.looproom.com (international)> www.stockholm-athens.com>=20
_________________________________________________________________
Amazing prizes every hour with Live Search Big Snap
http://www.bigsnapsearch.com=

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<html>
<head>
<style>
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma
}
</style>
</head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'>
Hi Erland..and all...<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
Heres a deal for you....Erland, I will email u offlist and work this throug=
h with u, I have two EDPs up and running with the FCB perfectly..Im confide=
nt I can get u up and running.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
HERES THE CATCH EVERYONE ELSE---- <BR>
Will someone further up the ladder in EDP usership help ME!!!<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
I need to control 3 EDPs of one Behringer FCB1010....<BR>
so&nbsp; far I can get two to play using notes and&nbsp;offsets of 0 and 48=
 on Channel 1...........but if I try to add the same commands for EDP3 I ru=
n out of midi notes at the top end (would need 137) If i bunch the offsets =
closer together there seems to be cross talk between the desired function o=
n EDP3 and some undesired function on EDP2 due to overlap.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
I am therefor hoping I can use FCB1010 with the edp set to CTR instead to g=
rab them last buttons, however at the moment I cant get any reaction at all=
 out of EDP3<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
It is still set to channel 1 same as the notes&nbsp; and I have brought the=
 offset back to 0 seeing as we are using CTR's so there shouldnt be any mis=
s-infomations (right???) basically if you have made an EDP work using a beh=
ringer FCB1010 and CTR's I would love to hear from you.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
Pay It Forward<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
Phill<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:20:09 +0200<BR>&gt; From: perbo=
ysen@gmail.com<BR>&gt; To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<BR>&gt; Subj=
ect: Re: Programming the FCB1010 for the EDP<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On Mon, Apr 2=
1, 2008 at 6:28 PM, Erland &lt;erlandka2@gmail.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; =
Is there a guide out there to programming the FCB1010 for use with the EDP<=
BR>&gt; &gt; other than the Behringer and Echoplex manuals?<BR>&gt; &gt; I'=
ve already given up a few times even though I find myself quite<BR>&gt; &gt=
; technically minded.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I'm mostly interested in th=
e granular functions and feedback pedal as I<BR>&gt; &gt; already have the =
Gibson and Digitech footcontrollers.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;=
 Thanks much,<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Erland<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Tr=
y searching the archives of this list! The topic has been up many<BR>&gt; t=
imes. I bet you will find at least three good guides ;-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -=
- <BR>&gt; Greetings from Sweden<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Per Boysen<BR>&gt; www.bo=
ysen.se (Swedish)<BR>&gt; www.looproom.com (international)<BR>&gt; www.stoc=
kholm-athens.com<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><br /><hr />Try Messenger on your mobile. =
  <a href=3D'http://mobile.uk.msn.com/pc/messenger.aspx ' target=3D'_new'>T=
ext MSN to 63463 Now.</a></body>
</html>=

--_715514ea-fb30-4118-aa00-514d4aac1d74_--

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Subject: Re: Research Paper Introduction, any thoughts?
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:48:24 +0200
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I can offer you English prof advice.

On Apr 21, 2008, at 6:20 PM, darren perry wrote:

>  live performance, and naturally the terms

you need that comma for clarity


Didn't John Cage use loops at the same time as the IRCAM guys?
I think you overuse hugely in the first history paragraph.

> current well known

well-known

> hardware and software has

have

> one of the most advanced hardware looping device

devices

> top ten in popularity along

comma after popularity

> Ableton Live being the front runner of live looping software, other

Ableton Live IS the front runner of live looping software; other  --  
or : software. Other

You need a real verb in the first part, then make one or other of the  
changes to the next bit.

>  introduction while

comma after intorduction

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From: "Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill" <rs@moinlabs.de>
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Subject: AW: Research Paper Introduction, any thoughts?
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> and Looping Technology. If you have the chance to read this=20
> and have any corrections or suggestions please send them my way!

Hi Darren,

as you requested:

(nota bene: I also suggest others correct me if I do err somewhere!)

> essay I will use the term Live Looping to refer to the use of=20
> looping technology in live performance rather than the genre=20
> or movement associated with it. Looping Music, Loop Based=20

I would suggest to further specify the term "live performance" here, for =
the
following reason: I believe the main difference between Live Looping and
Dead Looping *g* is that the former is something you perform in realtime =
(be
it in front of a live audience or direct to 2bus recording (or 5.1bus, =
in
case of some of e.g. Andr=E9 LaFosse's work).
More specifically, I believe the delineation should be more specifically
about whether it's realtime use (as opposed to offline processing), not =
of
the performance format, and using the term "live performance" might give =
the
impression that it's  only valid if performed in front of an audience.

> The early loop was a physical loop of magnetic tape(3) that=20
> passed continuously over the play/record head of a tape=20
> player, explored by Pierre Shaffer and Pierre Henry in the=20
> 1950s. The 1960s San Francisco Tape Music Center spawned the

There had been arrangements using wax cylinders and rotating magnetic
cylinders, used among others by Edgar Var=E8se, and I believe (please =
check
that!) he had something like that on the Philips booth at one world fair =
in
the 1920s.
=20
> development of looping largely with his Frippertronics system=20
> developed out of Eno=92s tape delay system and through working=20

"Eno's tape delay" was presented to a wider public by Terry Riley, who =
got
it from an uncredited engineer. Eno got the idea from Riley and Fripp =
got
the idea from Eno.
(reference: http://www.loopers-delight.com/history/Loophist.html)

> the last two decades. The 80s saw Fripp develop his solo work=20
...and then called it "Soundscapes"

> (LoopersDelight.com, Ableton.com). A number of current well=20
> known Looping artists include Andy Butler, Andre LaFosse,=20
> Rick Walker, Kid Beyond, Amy X, Per Boysen, Zoe Keating...=20

Perhaps include Imogen Heap (of Frou Frou fame) as well?

> hardware looping device around even today. A survey in 2003=20
> looking at the technology used by loopers ranked the Jamman=20
> and the Echoplex in the top ten in popularity along with the=20

>From a survey conducted in (fall) 2007:
"The HW top3 usage-wise are the EDP (54%), followed by the DL4 (42%) and =
the
Repeater (40%). Ranking-wise, the best ranking for a hardware looper =
goes to
the Looperlative (94%! - hats off, bob!), followed by the EDP (89%) and =
with
a little more distance the Repeater (79%).

In the software domain, the top3 used looper software packages are a =
draw
between Mobius and Ableton Live (31%), followed by SooperLooper (17%).
Rating-wise, it's Mobius with 90% in the front, followed by MAX/MSP =
(88%)
and AugustusLoop (83%)."
And "80% of the loopers prefer hardware loopers over software loopers."


	Rainer

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I hear you, Warren. Exactly! It's about making the music one wants to be 
listening to, but hasn't heard yet.

It was just about five years ago I decided not to bother with the goal 
of making my living from my musical endeavors. The years since have been 
my most creative ones ever...for me, this is working out great.

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com

> Thanks, Daryl, I appreciate your compliments and good wishes - it's
> not exactly about seeking validation. It wasn't that the Pizza Guy
> said what he did that was the problem, it was the way it resonated.
>
> I'll never give up on music, but I gave up on the hope of my artistic
> efforts being my principal source of income a long time ago. I'm just
> trying to make things (or participate in making things) that I like to
> listen to as much as my gazillion other listening choices. If I can
> really make that happen the way I want it to, then the chances of
> getting recognized for it go up - and make no mistake, I'd not
> complain of more - but most of the satisfaction is in the process and
> achieving the goal.
>   

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 21 20:05:43 2008
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hi Phillip

You can use CC to operate an EDP,
but using the fcb1010 gives limited results,
as the edp needs the CC equivalent of Note-Offs 
if you're going to get the same results.

i.e. if when you released he switch you 
could send the corresponding CC with a value of 0 then all would be
well, thus giving you all the needed LongPress and ShortPress functions.
...but the fcb doesn't do that 


Just sending the first CC on it's own always gives you LongPress,
...so every time you try Record, you get a Reset :-(


As fcb can send 2 CCs, you could program in a ShortPress,
by sending the CC of value 0 immediately after the CC for the function.
..but problem is you have to program another switch if you want the 
LongPress at all.  

Lack of EDP3 response....check the fcb global midi channel for the CCs.


Conclusion...it doesn't work that well :-(

Suggestion...use a Midi Router instead. Andre Lafosse controlled 5 edps with one of those.

Or..Get the Uno firmware upgrade for you fcb which solves the CC problem. 


andy butler

phillip wilson wrote:
> Hi Erland..and all...
>  
> Heres a deal for you....Erland, I will email u offlist and work this 
> through with u, I have two EDPs up and running with the FCB 
> perfectly..Im confident I can get u up and running.
>  
> HERES THE CATCH EVERYONE ELSE----
> Will someone further up the ladder in EDP usership help ME!!!
>  
> I need to control 3 EDPs of one Behringer FCB1010....
> so  far I can get two to play using notes and offsets of 0 and 48 on 
> Channel 1...........but if I try to add the same commands for EDP3 I run 
> out of midi notes at the top end (would need 137) If i bunch the offsets 
> closer together there seems to be cross talk between the desired 
> function on EDP3 and some undesired function on EDP2 due to overlap.
>  
> I am therefor hoping I can use FCB1010 with the edp set to CTR instead 
> to grab them last buttons, however at the moment I cant get any reaction 
> at all out of EDP3
>  
> It is still set to channel 1 same as the notes  and I have brought the 
> offset back to 0 seeing as we are using CTR's so there shouldnt be any 
> miss-infomations (right???) basically if you have made an EDP work using 
> a behringer FCB1010 and CTR's I would love to hear from you.
>  
> Pay It Forward
>  
> Phill
> 
>  > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:20:09 +0200
>  > From: perboysen@gmail.com
>  > To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>  > Subject: Re: Programming the FCB1010 for the EDP
>  >
>  > On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 6:28 PM, Erland <erlandka2@gmail.com> wrote:
>  > > Is there a guide out there to programming the FCB1010 for use with 
> the EDP
>  > > other than the Behringer and Echoplex manuals?
>  > > I've already given up a few times even though I find myself quite
>  > > technically minded.
>  > >
>  > > I'm mostly interested in the granular functions and feedback pedal as I
>  > > already have the Gibson and Digitech footcontrollers.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > Thanks much,
>  > >
>  > > Erland
>  >
>  >
>  > Try searching the archives of this list! The topic has been up many
>  > times. I bet you will find at least three good guides ;-)
>  >
>  > --
>  > Greetings from Sweden
>  >
>  > Per Boysen
>  > www.boysen.se (Swedish)
>  > www.looproom.com (international)
>  > www.stockholm-athens.com
>  >
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Try Messenger on your mobile. Text MSN to 63463 Now. 
> <http://mobile.uk.msn.com/pc/messenger.aspx >

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 21 20:37:02 2008
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:32:01 -0400
From: Bill Fox <billyfox@soundscapes.us>
Subject: Announcing electro-music 2008
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I thought that many of you might be interested in this announcement.

Cheers,

Bill

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	[differentskies] Announcing electro-music 2008
Date: 	Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:50:45 -0400
From: 	Greg Waltzer <egwaltzer@comcast.net>
Reply-To: 	differentskies@yahoogroups.com
To: 	beyond_em@yahoogroups.com, differentskies@yahoogroups.com, 
ElectronicMusic@yahoogroups.com, loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com, 
oddmusic@yahoogroups.com, Philly_Ambient@yahoogroups.com, 
spacemusic@yahoogroups.com, the_ambient_way@yahoogroups.com, 
benders@yahoogroups.com, cityskies@yahoogroups.com, 
RicochetGathering@yahoogroups.com, SynthSights@yahoogroups.com



We proudly announce electro-music 2008(TM), a three day conference/music 
festival to be held at the Renaissance Center in Kingsport Tennessee, 
August 14 - 16, 2008. The program will include lectures, demos, jam 
sessions, and concerts.

The scope of this festival is very broad, covering all aspects of 
electro-music: experimental electronic music, circuit bending, computer 
music, electro-jazz, modular synthesis, musique concrete, improvisation, 
algorithmic composition, multi-media, visual art and much more. The 
focus will be on participant involvement, sharing, community 
development, audience education, and great music.

If would like to participate in electro-music 2008 by giving a musical 
or visual performance, seminar, workshop, or demonstration, please 
follow the instructions at:
http://electro-music.com/event/HowToParticipate.html
Note that since this is a community event rather than a commercial 
event, all participants are required to purchase tickets for the event.

electro-music 2008 will build on the success of the previous 
electro-music events in 2005, 2006 and 2007. The participants at those 
events felt it was a ground-breaking and inspirational experience. After 
three successful years in Philadelphia, the festival moves to Kingsport 
Tennessee. We expect many of the artists who were at the earlier events 
to return this year, along with some interesting and talented newcomers.
More information can be found at the event web site:
http://event.electro-music.com/

------------------------------------

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 21 21:19:35 2008
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> I thought that many of you might be interested in this announcement.
> Bill

Hilarious, Bill! Thanks for that good laugh:

> Note that since this is a community event rather than a 
> commercial event, all participants are required to purchase 
> tickets for the event.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 21 21:44:14 2008
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A thread which has produced some outstanding posts, among them Warren's
insightful one, to which Rick replied:

> them (and I"ve had to actively defend my stance of including 
> newbies at the festival to more experienced players at 
> times----there are a handful who won't play the festival 
> anymore because of it...........thinking it lessens the 
> quality of the experience.

This is a truly interesting approach - I hope there weren't any interesting
artists who don't show anymore because of this (or was this the reason for
the LaFosse discourse?).
I'm moving away from your festival into the world of festivals where
audients play handsome money and acts (mostly the headlining ones) earn a
lot of it, too - big-scale rock festivals, to which I was introduced last
year (believe it or not, I had to headline the biggest-of-its-kind looping
festival before actually attending a big heavy metal festival, and I might
have even diluted that experience somehow by going in a big luxury SUV
vehicle): there's the big acts (the likes of Slayer and Korn and Hatebreed
in that case), and then there's these newbie/unkown acts in the early
afternoon on a smaller stage - and the fun about this is that, while you
might be subjected to some truly horrible experiences, you may also be there
to listen to a new, outstanding act...

...but back onto topic again: wouldn't it make sense for your festival not
necessarily to ban newbies, but to ban acts which fall below a certain
quality standard (whatever that may be)? Or asked the other way round: why
is it better to have some truly uninspiring act instead of someone very
musical who was rejected instead because he already played last year?

(This, and I believe you know this, but as an explanation to other readers,
is completely independent of my own consideration for the festival last year
and the year before that, and I'm very well aware of the fact that if some
kind of quality control is implemented, I may easily be among the ones not
to get considered anymore. We already had that in other places *g*)

> Miles Davis was playing with musicians in their early 20's at 
> the end of his 
> life.   Why?    Because he wanted to be on the cusp of
> what is happening and he wanted to be inspired by these 
> brilliant, yet not completely accomplished minds.

Are you sure that was his motivation? There might be other possible reasons
('though I don't advocate them):
 * the younger players are cheaper
 * the younger players are easier to influence
 * the younger players are easier to control
 * he already knew all of the older players and wanted someone knew
 * ???

> In Zen Buddhism,  there is the concept of 'beginners' 
> mind'.....................that excitement one has when one is 
> brand new into something they
> are loving completely.   As with all things,  it's much 

...and it's harder to recreate that when you grow older for some people, but
(from my experience) especially for women. And that is (in my opinion) the
single most important reason why the big majority of outstanding artists,
even in our time, are males: because they are able to be overjoyed by
something like a little child even at high age.

> I wrote passionately at the start of this thread because I 
> sensed a resentment and an anger towards musicians who have 
> made their entire
> lives about making a living.    This was shocking to me , 

This is really interesting - I didn't read that in Warren's post at all!


Thanks again, Rick and Warren, for your posts!

	Rainer

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Subject: RE: Programming the FCB1010 for the EDP (Karma)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 22:03:17 +0000
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Hi there....talk about problems!!!
=20
With the CC fudge-solution sugested here I can get the following by keeping=
 the cc's on channel1 with a source offset of 36
=20
BOTTOM ROW
=20
 1 record using just one cc...and a Value of 38-01
=20
(I then tried using a value of 38-01 as CC1 followed by a value of 38-00 ..=
.this resulted in having to tap the pedal en extra time before it would beg=
in or stop recording , i dont know why.)
=20
2 overdub again seems to work using just one cc 39-01
=20
3 multiply again just one cc seding out 40-01
=20
4 half speed  48-01=20
=20
5 reverse 49-01
=20
(should these have other numbers following them in a seccond cc? if so can =
someone give an example I can work with?)
TOP ROW
6 Mute 42-01 seems to work now
7 Sus Overdub ...cant find any combination of cc's to work
8 Sus Replace ... again can't get working
9 Undo CC1 43-01.... CC2 43-00 .......seems to kind of work but the EDP lig=
ht goes perminantly red and this sometimes seems to glitch and stop all oth=
er buttons working=20
0 Next Loop 44-01
=20
on another page I have also been tying to get reset but cant get it to work=
 consistently (sometimes it seems to work but not always)using cc1 62-01 fo=
llowed by cc2 62-01=20
=20
the nmbers are the order in which i put them into the fcb1010 hope it makes=
 sense, am i putting them in the wrong order or choosing incorrect numbers?=
 i just dont know where to start.
=20
OK If i have to move on and get more kit I think my first port of call will=
 be Uno, is anyone using an Uno modded FCB1010 with a EDP using CC's on her=
e? does it work? I would love to hear from you.
=20
Many thanks for continued help
Phill Wilson> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:05:45 +0100> From: akbutler@tiscali=
.co.uk> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com> Subject: Re: Programming t=
he FCB1010 for the EDP (Karma)> > hi Phillip> > You can use CC to operate a=
n EDP,> but using the fcb1010 gives limited results,> as the edp needs the =
CC equivalent of Note-Offs > if you're going to get the same results.> > i.=
e. if when you released he switch you > could send the corresponding CC wit=
h a value of 0 then all would be> well, thus giving you all the needed Long=
Press and ShortPress functions.> ...but the fcb doesn't do that > > > Just =
sending the first CC on it's own always gives you LongPress,> ...so every t=
ime you try Record, you get a Reset :-(> > > As fcb can send 2 CCs, you cou=
ld program in a ShortPress,> by sending the CC of value 0 immediately after=
 the CC for the function.> ..but problem is you have to program another swi=
tch if you want the > LongPress at all. > > Lack of EDP3 response....check =
the fcb global midi channel for the CCs.> > > Conclusion...it doesn't work =
that well :-(> > Suggestion...use a Midi Router instead. Andre Lafosse cont=
rolled 5 edps with one of those.> > Or..Get the Uno firmware upgrade for yo=
u fcb which solves the CC problem. > > > andy butler> > phillip wilson wrot=
e:> > Hi Erland..and all...> > > > Heres a deal for you....Erland, I will e=
mail u offlist and work this > > through with u, I have two EDPs up and run=
ning with the FCB > > perfectly..Im confident I can get u up and running.> =
> > > HERES THE CATCH EVERYONE ELSE----> > Will someone further up the ladd=
er in EDP usership help ME!!!> > > > I need to control 3 EDPs of one Behrin=
ger FCB1010....> > so far I can get two to play using notes and offsets of =
0 and 48 on > > Channel 1...........but if I try to add the same commands f=
or EDP3 I run > > out of midi notes at the top end (would need 137) If i bu=
nch the offsets > > closer together there seems to be cross talk between th=
e desired > > function on EDP3 and some undesired function on EDP2 due to o=
verlap.> > > > I am therefor hoping I can use FCB1010 with the edp set to C=
TR instead > > to grab them last buttons, however at the moment I cant get =
any reaction > > at all out of EDP3> > > > It is still set to channel 1 sam=
e as the notes and I have brought the > > offset back to 0 seeing as we are=
 using CTR's so there shouldnt be any > > miss-infomations (right???) basic=
ally if you have made an EDP work using > > a behringer FCB1010 and CTR's I=
 would love to hear from you.> > > > Pay It Forward> > > > Phill> > > > > D=
ate: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:20:09 +0200> > > From: perboysen@gmail.com> > > To=
: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com> > > Subject: Re: Programming the FCB=
1010 for the EDP> > >> > > On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 6:28 PM, Erland <erlandk=
a2@gmail.com> wrote:> > > > Is there a guide out there to programming the F=
CB1010 for use with > > the EDP> > > > other than the Behringer and Echople=
x manuals?> > > > I've already given up a few times even though I find myse=
lf quite> > > > technically minded.> > > >> > > > I'm mostly interested in =
the granular functions and feedback pedal as I> > > > already have the Gibs=
on and Digitech footcontrollers.> > > >> > > >> > > > Thanks much,> > > >> =
> > > Erland> > >> > >> > > Try searching the archives of this list! The to=
pic has been up many> > > times. I bet you will find at least three good gu=
ides ;-)> > >> > > --> > > Greetings from Sweden> > >> > > Per Boysen> > > =
www.boysen.se (Swedish)> > > www.looproom.com (international)> > > www.stoc=
kholm-athens.com> > >> > > > > > ------------------------------------------=
------------------------------> > Try Messenger on your mobile. Text MSN to=
 63463 Now. > > <http://mobile.uk.msn.com/pc/messenger.aspx >>=20
_________________________________________________________________
Welcome to the next generation of Windows Live
http://www.windowslive.co.uk/get-live=

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Hi there....talk about problems!!!<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
With the CC fudge-solution sugested here I can get the following by keeping=
 the&nbsp;cc's on channel1 with a source offset of 36<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
BOTTOM ROW<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;1 record using just one cc...and a&nbsp;Value of 38-01<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
<EM>(I then tried using a value of 38-01 as CC1 followed by a value of 38-0=
0 ...this resulted in having to tap the pedal en extra time before it would=
 begin or stop recording , i dont know why.)</EM><BR>
<EM></EM>&nbsp;<BR>
2 overdub again seems to work using just one cc 39-01<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
3 multiply again just one cc seding out 40-01<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
4 half speed&nbsp; 48-01&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
5 reverse 49-01<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
(should these have other numbers following them in a seccond cc? if so can =
someone give an example I can work with?)<BR><BR>
TOP ROW<BR>
6 Mute 42-01 seems to work now<BR>
7 Sus Overdub ...cant find any combination of cc's to work<BR>
8 Sus Replace ... again can't get working<BR>
9 Undo CC1 43-01.... CC2 43-00 .......seems to kind of work but the EDP lig=
ht goes perminantly red and this sometimes seems to glitch and stop&nbsp;al=
l other buttons working&nbsp;<BR>
0 Next Loop 44-01<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
on another page I have also been tying to get reset but cant get it to work=
 consistently (sometimes it seems to work but not always)using cc1 62-01 fo=
llowed by cc2 62-01 <BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
the nmbers are the order in which i put them into the fcb1010 hope it makes=
 sense, am i putting them in the wrong order or choosing incorrect numbers?=
 i just dont know where to start.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
OK If i have to move on and get more kit I think my first port of call will=
 be Uno, is anyone using an Uno modded FCB1010 with a EDP using CC's on her=
e? does it work? I would love to hear from you.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
Many thanks for continued help<BR>
Phill Wilson<BR>&gt; Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:05:45 +0100<BR>&gt; From: ak=
butler@tiscali.co.uk<BR>&gt; To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<BR>&gt=
; Subject: Re: Programming the FCB1010 for the EDP (Karma)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;=
 hi Phillip<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; You can use CC to operate an EDP,<BR>&gt; but =
using the fcb1010 gives limited results,<BR>&gt; as the edp needs the CC eq=
uivalent of Note-Offs <BR>&gt; if you're going to get the same results.<BR>=
&gt; <BR>&gt; i.e. if when you released he switch you <BR>&gt; could send t=
he corresponding CC with a value of 0 then all would be<BR>&gt; well, thus =
giving you all the needed LongPress and ShortPress functions.<BR>&gt; ...bu=
t the fcb doesn't do that <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Just sending the first=
 CC on it's own always gives you LongPress,<BR>&gt; ...so every time you tr=
y Record, you get a Reset :-(<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; As fcb can send 2 C=
Cs, you could program in a ShortPress,<BR>&gt; by sending the CC of value 0=
 immediately after the CC for the function.<BR>&gt; ..but problem is you ha=
ve to program another switch if you want the <BR>&gt; LongPress at all. <BR=
>&gt; <BR>&gt; Lack of EDP3 response....check the fcb global midi channel f=
or the CCs.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Conclusion...it doesn't work that wel=
l :-(<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Suggestion...use a Midi Router instead. Andre Lafoss=
e controlled 5 edps with one of those.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Or..Get the Uno fir=
mware upgrade for you fcb which solves the CC problem. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <B=
R>&gt; andy butler<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; phillip wilson wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Hi E=
rland..and all...<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Heres a deal for you....Erland=
, I will email u offlist and work this <BR>&gt; &gt; through with u, I have=
 two EDPs up and running with the FCB <BR>&gt; &gt; perfectly..Im confident=
 I can get u up and running.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; HERES THE CATCH EVE=
RYONE ELSE----<BR>&gt; &gt; Will someone further up the ladder in EDP users=
hip help ME!!!<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I need to control 3 EDPs of one B=
ehringer FCB1010....<BR>&gt; &gt; so far I can get two to play using notes =
and offsets of 0 and 48 on <BR>&gt; &gt; Channel 1...........but if I try t=
o add the same commands for EDP3 I run <BR>&gt; &gt; out of midi notes at t=
he top end (would need 137) If i bunch the offsets <BR>&gt; &gt; closer tog=
ether there seems to be cross talk between the desired <BR>&gt; &gt; functi=
on on EDP3 and some undesired function on EDP2 due to overlap.<BR>&gt; &gt;=
 <BR>&gt; &gt; I am therefor hoping I can use FCB1010 with the edp set to C=
TR instead <BR>&gt; &gt; to grab them last buttons, however at the moment I=
 cant get any reaction <BR>&gt; &gt; at all out of EDP3<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&g=
t; &gt; It is still set to channel 1 same as the notes and I have brought t=
he <BR>&gt; &gt; offset back to 0 seeing as we are using CTR's so there sho=
uldnt be any <BR>&gt; &gt; miss-infomations (right???) basically if you hav=
e made an EDP work using <BR>&gt; &gt; a behringer FCB1010 and CTR's I woul=
d love to hear from you.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Pay It Forward<BR>&gt; =
&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Phill<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Date: Mon, 21 Apr =
2008 19:20:09 +0200<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: perboysen@gmail.com<BR>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: R=
e: Programming the FCB1010 for the EDP<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 6:28 PM, Erland &lt;erlandka2@gmail.com&gt; wrote:<=
BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Is there a guide out there to programming the FCB101=
0 for use with <BR>&gt; &gt; the EDP<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; other than the =
Behringer and Echoplex manuals?<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I've already given u=
p a few times even though I find myself quite<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; techni=
cally minded.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I'm mostly inte=
rested in the granular functions and feedback pedal as I<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt; already have the Gibson and Digitech footcontrollers.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt=
; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Thanks much,<BR>&gt; &=
gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Erland<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Try searching the archives of this list! The topic h=
as been up many<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; times. I bet you will find at least three=
 good guides ;-)<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; --<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; G=
reetings from Sweden<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Per Boysen<BR>&gt;=
 &gt; &gt; www.boysen.se (Swedish)<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; www.looproom.com (inte=
rnational)<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; www.stockholm-athens.com<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>=
&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; -------------------------------------=
-----------------------------------<BR>&gt; &gt; Try Messenger on your mobi=
le. Text MSN to 63463 Now. <BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;http://mobile.uk.msn.com/pc/me=
ssenger.aspx &gt;<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><br /><hr />
Have you played Fishticuffs?
 <a href=3D'http://www.fishticuffs.co.uk' target=3D'_new'>Get fish-slapping=
 on Messenger</a></body>
</html>=

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 21 22:41:21 2008
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From: "Rick Walker" <looppool@cruzio.com>
To: "LOOPERS DELIGHT \(posting\)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:41:23 -0700
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To help Darren with his thesis project on live looping I thought it might be 
really good
to come up with a current list of well known live looping artists.

People not mentioned in his initial list would have to include

IMOGEN HEAP  (Frou Frou and solo career)

JON BRION
                (film soundtracks, multi instrumentalist and the
                famous producer of Fiona Apple who has a weekly live looping 
gig in Los Angeles)

KID BEYOND)(Andrew Chaikin's beatboxing all acapella live looping show is 
really attracting attention)

ROB MASSIE (of 808 State just used live looping extensively in his SF show)

ARILD ANDERSEN  (famous Norwegian jazz bassist,  part of the ECM records 
stable of solo and collaborative artists)

EDDIE VEDDER (front man for Pearl Jam used live looping in his solo concert 
just last week in Santa Cruz,
                        parenthetically,  his opening act also used live 
looping and, point of civic pride here,  he wrote a brand
                        new composition about how much he loves Santa Cruz 
and performed it the evening that he wrote it)

MATMOS (the producers who work with BJORK---I"m not sure here, but it sure 
seemed like they were looping
                  live in concert with her when I saw her recently)

BILL FRISSEL  (possibly the most important American jazz artist today)

DAVID TORN   (arguably the first high profile live looper and one who's been 
doing digital looping as long as anyone)

HENRY KAISER  (one of the most influential and famous experimental musicians 
in the US today.   He was literally
                   doing live looping in the digital realm earlier than 
anyone.  I forgot the date that he told me but he
                   was doing this back in the 70's with the earliest digital 
delays)

ROBERT FRIPP   (started much of this with his double REVOX tape machine live 
loops called Frippertronics)

in our own community

MATTHIAS GROB (inventor of the Pardis delay which became the Gibson Echoplex 
EDP with loop IV)
KIM FLINT (American guitarist and founder of LOOPERS DELIGHT,  the mecca 
live looping website on the planet)
ANDRE LAFOSSE (American guitar)
CLAUDE VOIT  (Swiss guitar)
ANDY BUTLER (British guitar)
BILL WALKER  (American guitarist)
PER BOYSEN (Swedish multi instrumentalist-popularizer of live looping in his 
country-founder of the 1st and 2nd SWEDISH LIVE LOOPING FESTIVALs)
SUNAO INAMI (Japanese keyboardist/composer-popularizer of live looping in 
his country- founder for the LOOPERS DELIGHT J live looping festivals)
ERDEM HELVACIOGLU (Turkish composer/guitarist)
BERNHARD WAGNER (Swiss guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his 
country and founder of the 1st INTERNATIONAL LOOP FESTIVAL ZURICH)
ANDREW OSTLER  (British electronic composer - popularizer of live looping in 
his country-founder of the CAMBRIDGE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)
MASSIMO LIVERANI (ITALIAN guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his 
country-founder of the 1st FIRENZE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL)
MICHAEL PETERS (German experimental artist/guitarist - popularizer of live 
looping in his country)
LEANDER REININGHAUS (German Guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his 
country-founder of the BERLIN LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)
MICHAEL KLOBUCHAR (American guitarist and founder of the Chain Tape 
Collective which was influential to the community
                    from the early days of Loopers Delight until the 
present)
HANS LINDAUER (American electronic music/bassist- who started the 
influential LOOPSTOCKHAUSEN festivals)
RAINER STRASCHILL (German guitarist - popularizer of the KKYBERJAM live 
looping movement)
KRISPEN HARTUNG  (American avant garde guitarist - popularizer of the live 
looping and founder of the BOISE EXPERIMENTAL
                                  MUSIC FESTIVAL)
and all the loopers who produced small one off live looping festivals in 
their respective countries:

Okay,  my mind hurts and I know I've missed lots of people (please don't 
take offense if I"ve made glaring errors,  I really do appreciate you.

WHO ELSE?       FAMOUS and also in our LOOPERS DELIGHT community?



okay,  I know I"m missing people but I wondered if everyone would pitch in 
and give credit where credit is due 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 21 22:49:18 2008
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Subject: Re: Announcing electro-music 2008
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:49:15 -0600
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Do they really mean performers, or non-performing participants? If the 
former, that is border line absurd.

Kris

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill" <rs@moinlabs.de>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 3:19 PM
Subject: AW: Announcing electro-music 2008


>> I thought that many of you might be interested in this announcement.
>> Bill
>
> Hilarious, Bill! Thanks for that good laugh:
>
>> Note that since this is a community event rather than a
>> commercial event, all participants are required to purchase
>> tickets for the event.
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 21 23:24:09 2008
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From: phillip wilson <phillwilson@hotmail.com>
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Subject: RE: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
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I would add
=20
HOWIE DAY - live simple looping off 2 dl4's
JOSEPH ARTHUR - Check out Live at Gypsies Tea Room CD Old School Jamman wor=
kout!!
FINAL FANTASY AKA OWEN PALLETT - Truly wonderful artist , check his youtube=
 videos for live natural and simple looping at its best
ANDREW BIRD - Another violin looper but with very differant style
BATTLES - First band I have seen in charts with EDP's in their videos (wond=
er if theres stay in sync??!hehe)
=20
eerrrr errr ..others!! will think when my mind is less dizzy with echoplex'=
s
=20
Phill MyOneManBand
> From: looppool@cruzio.com> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com> Subje=
ct: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:41:23 -0=
700> > To help Darren with his thesis project on live looping I thought it =
might be > really good> to come up with a current list of well known live l=
ooping artists.> > People not mentioned in his initial list would have to i=
nclude> > IMOGEN HEAP (Frou Frou and solo career)> > JON BRION> (film sound=
tracks, multi instrumentalist and the> famous producer of Fiona Apple who h=
as a weekly live looping > gig in Los Angeles)> > KID BEYOND)(Andrew Chaiki=
n's beatboxing all acapella live looping show is > really attracting attent=
ion)> > ROB MASSIE (of 808 State just used live looping extensively in his =
SF show)> > ARILD ANDERSEN (famous Norwegian jazz bassist, part of the ECM =
records > stable of solo and collaborative artists)> > EDDIE VEDDER (front =
man for Pearl Jam used live looping in his solo concert > just last week in=
 Santa Cruz,> parenthetically, his opening act also used live > looping and=
, point of civic pride here, he wrote a brand> new composition about how mu=
ch he loves Santa Cruz > and performed it the evening that he wrote it)> > =
MATMOS (the producers who work with BJORK---I"m not sure here, but it sure =
> seemed like they were looping> live in concert with her when I saw her re=
cently)> > BILL FRISSEL (possibly the most important American jazz artist t=
oday)> > DAVID TORN (arguably the first high profile live looper and one wh=
o's been > doing digital looping as long as anyone)> > HENRY KAISER (one of=
 the most influential and famous experimental musicians > in the US today. =
He was literally> doing live looping in the digital realm earlier than > an=
yone. I forgot the date that he told me but he> was doing this back in the =
70's with the earliest digital > delays)> > ROBERT FRIPP (started much of t=
his with his double REVOX tape machine live > loops called Frippertronics)>=
 > in our own community> > MATTHIAS GROB (inventor of the Pardis delay whic=
h became the Gibson Echoplex > EDP with loop IV)> KIM FLINT (American guita=
rist and founder of LOOPERS DELIGHT, the mecca > live looping website on th=
e planet)> ANDRE LAFOSSE (American guitar)> CLAUDE VOIT (Swiss guitar)> AND=
Y BUTLER (British guitar)> BILL WALKER (American guitarist)> PER BOYSEN (Sw=
edish multi instrumentalist-popularizer of live looping in his > country-fo=
under of the 1st and 2nd SWEDISH LIVE LOOPING FESTIVALs)> SUNAO INAMI (Japa=
nese keyboardist/composer-popularizer of live looping in > his country- fou=
nder for the LOOPERS DELIGHT J live looping festivals)> ERDEM HELVACIOGLU (=
Turkish composer/guitarist)> BERNHARD WAGNER (Swiss guitarist - popularizer=
 of live looping in his > country and founder of the 1st INTERNATIONAL LOOP=
 FESTIVAL ZURICH)> ANDREW OSTLER (British electronic composer - popularizer=
 of live looping in > his country-founder of the CAMBRIDGE LIVE LOOPING FES=
TIVAL series)> MASSIMO LIVERANI (ITALIAN guitarist - popularizer of live lo=
oping in his > country-founder of the 1st FIRENZE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL)> M=
ICHAEL PETERS (German experimental artist/guitarist - popularizer of live >=
 looping in his country)> LEANDER REININGHAUS (German Guitarist - populariz=
er of live looping in his > country-founder of the BERLIN LIVE LOOPING FEST=
IVAL series)> MICHAEL KLOBUCHAR (American guitarist and founder of the Chai=
n Tape > Collective which was influential to the community> from the early =
days of Loopers Delight until the > present)> HANS LINDAUER (American elect=
ronic music/bassist- who started the > influential LOOPSTOCKHAUSEN festival=
s)> RAINER STRASCHILL (German guitarist - popularizer of the KKYBERJAM live=
 > looping movement)> KRISPEN HARTUNG (American avant garde guitarist - pop=
ularizer of the live > looping and founder of the BOISE EXPERIMENTAL> MUSIC=
 FESTIVAL)> and all the loopers who produced small one off live looping fes=
tivals in > their respective countries:> > Okay, my mind hurts and I know I=
've missed lots of people (please don't > take offense if I"ve made glaring=
 errors, I really do appreciate you.> > WHO ELSE? FAMOUS and also in our LO=
OPERS DELIGHT community?> > > > okay, I know I"m missing people but I wonde=
red if everyone would pitch in > and give credit where credit is due >=20
_________________________________________________________________
Amazing prizes every hour with Live Search Big Snap
http://www.bigsnapsearch.com=

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<BR>I would add<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
HOWIE DAY - live simple looping off 2 dl4's<BR>
JOSEPH ARTHUR -&nbsp;Check out Live at Gypsies Tea Room CD Old School Jamma=
n workout!!<BR>
FINAL FANTASY AKA OWEN PALLETT - Truly wonderful artist , check his youtube=
 videos for live natural and simple looping at its best<BR>
ANDREW BIRD - Another violin looper but with very differant style<BR>
BATTLES - First band I have seen in charts with EDP's in their videos (wond=
er if theres stay in sync??!hehe)<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
eerrrr errr ..others!! will think when my mind is less dizzy with echoplex'=
s<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
Phill MyOneManBand<BR>
<BR>&gt; From: looppool@cruzio.com<BR>&gt; To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-deli=
ght.com<BR>&gt; Subject: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS<BR>&gt; Date: =
Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:41:23 -0700<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; To help Darren with his th=
esis project on live looping I thought it might be <BR>&gt; really good<BR>=
&gt; to come up with a current list of well known live looping artists.<BR>=
&gt; <BR>&gt; People not mentioned in his initial list would have to includ=
e<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; IMOGEN HEAP (Frou Frou and solo career)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;=
 JON BRION<BR>&gt; (film soundtracks, multi instrumentalist and the<BR>&gt;=
 famous producer of Fiona Apple who has a weekly live looping <BR>&gt; gig =
in Los Angeles)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; KID BEYOND)(Andrew Chaikin's beatboxing al=
l acapella live looping show is <BR>&gt; really attracting attention)<BR>&g=
t; <BR>&gt; ROB MASSIE (of 808 State just used live looping extensively in =
his SF show)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ARILD ANDERSEN (famous Norwegian jazz bassist=
, part of the ECM records <BR>&gt; stable of solo and collaborative artists=
)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; EDDIE VEDDER (front man for Pearl Jam used live looping =
in his solo concert <BR>&gt; just last week in Santa Cruz,<BR>&gt; parenthe=
tically, his opening act also used live <BR>&gt; looping and, point of civi=
c pride here, he wrote a brand<BR>&gt; new composition about how much he lo=
ves Santa Cruz <BR>&gt; and performed it the evening that he wrote it)<BR>&=
gt; <BR>&gt; MATMOS (the producers who work with BJORK---I"m not sure here,=
 but it sure <BR>&gt; seemed like they were looping<BR>&gt; live in concert=
 with her when I saw her recently)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; BILL FRISSEL (possibly =
the most important American jazz artist today)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; DAVID TORN =
(arguably the first high profile live looper and one who's been <BR>&gt; do=
ing digital looping as long as anyone)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; HENRY KAISER (one o=
f the most influential and famous experimental musicians <BR>&gt; in the US=
 today. He was literally<BR>&gt; doing live looping in the digital realm ea=
rlier than <BR>&gt; anyone. I forgot the date that he told me but he<BR>&gt=
; was doing this back in the 70's with the earliest digital <BR>&gt; delays=
)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ROBERT FRIPP (started much of this with his double REVOX=
 tape machine live <BR>&gt; loops called Frippertronics)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; i=
n our own community<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; MATTHIAS GROB (inventor of the Pardis =
delay which became the Gibson Echoplex <BR>&gt; EDP with loop IV)<BR>&gt; K=
IM FLINT (American guitarist and founder of LOOPERS DELIGHT, the mecca <BR>=
&gt; live looping website on the planet)<BR>&gt; ANDRE LAFOSSE (American gu=
itar)<BR>&gt; CLAUDE VOIT (Swiss guitar)<BR>&gt; ANDY BUTLER (British guita=
r)<BR>&gt; BILL WALKER (American guitarist)<BR>&gt; PER BOYSEN (Swedish mul=
ti instrumentalist-popularizer of live looping in his <BR>&gt; country-foun=
der of the 1st and 2nd SWEDISH LIVE LOOPING FESTIVALs)<BR>&gt; SUNAO INAMI =
(Japanese keyboardist/composer-popularizer of live looping in <BR>&gt; his =
country- founder for the LOOPERS DELIGHT J live looping festivals)<BR>&gt; =
ERDEM HELVACIOGLU (Turkish composer/guitarist)<BR>&gt; BERNHARD WAGNER (Swi=
ss guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his <BR>&gt; country and foun=
der of the 1st INTERNATIONAL LOOP FESTIVAL ZURICH)<BR>&gt; ANDREW OSTLER (B=
ritish electronic composer - popularizer of live looping in <BR>&gt; his co=
untry-founder of the CAMBRIDGE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)<BR>&gt; MASSIM=
O LIVERANI (ITALIAN guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his <BR>&gt;=
 country-founder of the 1st FIRENZE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL)<BR>&gt; MICHAEL =
PETERS (German experimental artist/guitarist - popularizer of live <BR>&gt;=
 looping in his country)<BR>&gt; LEANDER REININGHAUS (German Guitarist - po=
pularizer of live looping in his <BR>&gt; country-founder of the BERLIN LIV=
E LOOPING FESTIVAL series)<BR>&gt; MICHAEL KLOBUCHAR (American guitarist an=
d founder of the Chain Tape <BR>&gt; Collective which was influential to th=
e community<BR>&gt; from the early days of Loopers Delight until the <BR>&g=
t; present)<BR>&gt; HANS LINDAUER (American electronic music/bassist- who s=
tarted the <BR>&gt; influential LOOPSTOCKHAUSEN festivals)<BR>&gt; RAINER S=
TRASCHILL (German guitarist - popularizer of the KKYBERJAM live <BR>&gt; lo=
oping movement)<BR>&gt; KRISPEN HARTUNG (American avant garde guitarist - p=
opularizer of the live <BR>&gt; looping and founder of the BOISE EXPERIMENT=
AL<BR>&gt; MUSIC FESTIVAL)<BR>&gt; and all the loopers who produced small o=
ne off live looping festivals in <BR>&gt; their respective countries:<BR>&g=
t; <BR>&gt; Okay, my mind hurts and I know I've missed lots of people (plea=
se don't <BR>&gt; take offense if I"ve made glaring errors, I really do app=
reciate you.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; WHO ELSE? FAMOUS and also in our LOOPERS DELI=
GHT community?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; okay, I know I"m missing =
people but I wondered if everyone would pitch in <BR>&gt; and give credit w=
here credit is due <BR>&gt; <BR><BR><br /><hr />Try Messenger on your mobil=
e.   <a href=3D'http://mobile.uk.msn.com/pc/messenger.aspx ' target=3D'_new=
'>Text MSN to 63463 Now.</a></body>
</html>=

--_4c05a25e-94ca-4765-a951-bf93f671a9be_--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 21 23:32:22 2008
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:32:16 -0400
From: "Warren Sirota" <wsirota@wsdesigns.com>
Sender: warrensirota@gmail.com
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid?
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Thanks to all for their comments, especially your most gracious reply, Rick.

I want to be a bit clearer here: I never thought Rick was criticizing
me in any way, and I don't think that *he* thinks that I expressed an
opinion against professionals making a living. I love professional
musicians - they've provided me with a goodly portion, if not most, of
my musically transcendent experiences. I *did* initially take some
issue with the way Rick phrased a response to Travis, but I wasn't
trying to play it up like it was a *big* thing -  I was kind of using
it to jump off on a riff. If I came across as more critical than that,
I apologize for the clumsiness of my expression.

I think part of the point of the original topic (as I interpreted it,
anyway) was to consider what a world would be like if most musicians
didn't get paid, surely a state that seems probable. I think it's
natural to think about the history of how musicians have supported
themselves.

There used to be wandering minstrels, griots, etc., who would carry
news from town to town. They lived on the kindness of the towns they
visited, told stories, etc.  At a certain point, there were
court-employed entertainers, and eventually composers. Does anyone
think that either of these periods were better for music/musicians
than now? (I do not ask this disingenuously - I don't have a clue).

Recorded music changed everything - didn't it eventually cut down on
the widespread music-halls that were performers bread-and-butter for a
long time? Didn't it have the effect of concentrating the wealth in
music?

So now comes total de-concentration. Is that a good thing? Is the long
tail a real effect, or just a bunch of high-tech marketing BS? Will
live performances become more valued  as recordings are devalued? Is
there a way to adapt? That's what *everyone* wants to know.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 21 23:35:07 2008
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Subject: EDP SYNC HELP (specifics)
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:35:06 +0000
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Hi again...resident pain in the arse back with more screams of help...
=20
I need to sync the three EDPs Im working on , I seem to be able to sync two=
 resonably well but adding the third is working out very complicated.
=20
I have two TRS patch cables connected to the female ends of a headphone spl=
itter with the headphone jack.
=20
i can seem to get two connected and working but there is always one that do=
sent want to play, all are set to Sync=3DOut.
=20
I know there are people using brother sync for three of more EDP's could an=
yone share with me a SPECIFIC cable configuration that works (a link to a u=
k website I can by from would help but I will take all info I can at this s=
tage)
=20
As I hope you can tell from the panic..I have shows comign up and I thought=
 two weeks would be enough down time to pop in a third edp to my other two.=
.shows what I knows!!!
=20
Thanks for patience
=20
Phill
=20
=20


From: phillwilson@hotmail.comTo: loopers-delight@loopers-delight.comSubject=
: RE: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTSDate: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:24:07 +0=
000


I would add HOWIE DAY - live simple looping off 2 dl4'sJOSEPH ARTHUR - Chec=
k out Live at Gypsies Tea Room CD Old School Jamman workout!!FINAL FANTASY =
AKA OWEN PALLETT - Truly wonderful artist , check his youtube videos for li=
ve natural and simple looping at its bestANDREW BIRD - Another violin loope=
r but with very differant styleBATTLES - First band I have seen in charts w=
ith EDP's in their videos (wonder if theres stay in sync??!hehe) eerrrr err=
r ..others!! will think when my mind is less dizzy with echoplex's Phill My=
OneManBand> From: looppool@cruzio.com> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.=
com> Subject: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 1=
5:41:23 -0700> > To help Darren with his thesis project on live looping I t=
hought it might be > really good> to come up with a current list of well kn=
own live looping artists.> > People not mentioned in his initial list would=
 have to include> > IMOGEN HEAP (Frou Frou and solo career)> > JON BRION> (=
film soundtracks, multi instrumentalist and the> famous producer of Fiona A=
pple who has a weekly live looping > gig in Los Angeles)> > KID BEYOND)(And=
rew Chaikin's beatboxing all acapella live looping show is > really attract=
ing attention)> > ROB MASSIE (of 808 State just used live looping extensive=
ly in his SF show)> > ARILD ANDERSEN (famous Norwegian jazz bassist, part o=
f the ECM records > stable of solo and collaborative artists)> > EDDIE VEDD=
ER (front man for Pearl Jam used live looping in his solo concert > just la=
st week in Santa Cruz,> parenthetically, his opening act also used live > l=
ooping and, point of civic pride here, he wrote a brand> new composition ab=
out how much he loves Santa Cruz > and performed it the evening that he wro=
te it)> > MATMOS (the producers who work with BJORK---I"m not sure here, bu=
t it sure > seemed like they were looping> live in concert with her when I =
saw her recently)> > BILL FRISSEL (possibly the most important American jaz=
z artist today)> > DAVID TORN (arguably the first high profile live looper =
and one who's been > doing digital looping as long as anyone)> > HENRY KAIS=
ER (one of the most influential and famous experimental musicians > in the =
US today. He was literally> doing live looping in the digital realm earlier=
 than > anyone. I forgot the date that he told me but he> was doing this ba=
ck in the 70's with the earliest digital > delays)> > ROBERT FRIPP (started=
 much of this with his double REVOX tape machine live > loops called Frippe=
rtronics)> > in our own community> > MATTHIAS GROB (inventor of the Pardis =
delay which became the Gibson Echoplex > EDP with loop IV)> KIM FLINT (Amer=
ican guitarist and founder of LOOPERS DELIGHT, the mecca > live looping web=
site on the planet)> ANDRE LAFOSSE (American guitar)> CLAUDE VOIT (Swiss gu=
itar)> ANDY BUTLER (British guitar)> BILL WALKER (American guitarist)> PER =
BOYSEN (Swedish multi instrumentalist-popularizer of live looping in his > =
country-founder of the 1st and 2nd SWEDISH LIVE LOOPING FESTIVALs)> SUNAO I=
NAMI (Japanese keyboardist/composer-popularizer of live looping in > his co=
untry- founder for the LOOPERS DELIGHT J live looping festivals)> ERDEM HEL=
VACIOGLU (Turkish composer/guitarist)> BERNHARD WAGNER (Swiss guitarist - p=
opularizer of live looping in his > country and founder of the 1st INTERNAT=
IONAL LOOP FESTIVAL ZURICH)> ANDREW OSTLER (British electronic composer - p=
opularizer of live looping in > his country-founder of the CAMBRIDGE LIVE L=
OOPING FESTIVAL series)> MASSIMO LIVERANI (ITALIAN guitarist - popularizer =
of live looping in his > country-founder of the 1st FIRENZE LIVE LOOPING FE=
STIVAL)> MICHAEL PETERS (German experimental artist/guitarist - popularizer=
 of live > looping in his country)> LEANDER REININGHAUS (German Guitarist -=
 popularizer of live looping in his > country-founder of the BERLIN LIVE LO=
OPING FESTIVAL series)> MICHAEL KLOBUCHAR (American guitarist and founder o=
f the Chain Tape > Collective which was influential to the community> from =
the early days of Loopers Delight until the > present)> HANS LINDAUER (Amer=
ican electronic music/bassist- who started the > influential LOOPSTOCKHAUSE=
N festivals)> RAINER STRASCHILL (German guitarist - popularizer of the KKYB=
ERJAM live > looping movement)> KRISPEN HARTUNG (American avant garde guita=
rist - popularizer of the live > looping and founder of the BOISE EXPERIMEN=
TAL> MUSIC FESTIVAL)> and all the loopers who produced small one off live l=
ooping festivals in > their respective countries:> > Okay, my mind hurts an=
d I know I've missed lots of people (please don't > take offense if I"ve ma=
de glaring errors, I really do appreciate you.> > WHO ELSE? FAMOUS and also=
 in our LOOPERS DELIGHT community?> > > > okay, I know I"m missing people b=
ut I wondered if everyone would pitch in > and give credit where credit is =
due >=20

Try Messenger on your mobile. Text MSN to 63463 Now.=20
_________________________________________________________________
The next generation of Windows Live is here
http://www.windowslive.co.uk/get-live=

--_84940e07-4732-4627-8d75-63ab3a1492d9_
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Hi again...resident pain in the arse back with more screams of help...<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
I need to sync the three EDPs Im working on&nbsp;, I seem to be able to syn=
c two resonably well but adding the third is working out very complicated.<=
BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
I have two TRS patch cables connected to the female ends of a headphone spl=
itter with the headphone jack.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
i can seem to get two connected and working but there is always one that do=
sent want to play, all are set to Sync=3DOut.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
I know there are people using brother sync for three of more EDP's could an=
yone share with me a SPECIFIC cable configuration that works (a link to a u=
k website I can by from would help but I will take all info I can at this s=
tage)<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
As I hope you can tell from the panic..I have shows comign up and I thought=
 two weeks would be enough down time to pop in a third edp to my other two.=
.shows what I knows!!!<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
Thanks for patience<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
Phill<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
<BR><BR>&nbsp;<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
From: phillwilson@hotmail.com<BR>To: loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com<BR=
>Subject: RE: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS<BR>Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008=
 23:24:07 +0000<BR><BR>
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<BR>I would add<BR>&nbsp;<BR>HOWIE DAY - live simple looping off 2 dl4's<BR=
>JOSEPH ARTHUR -&nbsp;Check out Live at Gypsies Tea Room CD Old School Jamm=
an workout!!<BR>FINAL FANTASY AKA OWEN PALLETT - Truly wonderful artist , c=
heck his youtube videos for live natural and simple looping at its best<BR>=
ANDREW BIRD - Another violin looper but with very differant style<BR>BATTLE=
S - First band I have seen in charts with EDP's in their videos (wonder if =
theres stay in sync??!hehe)<BR>&nbsp;<BR>eerrrr errr ..others!! will think =
when my mind is less dizzy with echoplex's<BR>&nbsp;<BR>Phill MyOneManBand<=
BR><BR>&gt; From: looppool@cruzio.com<BR>&gt; To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-d=
elight.com<BR>&gt; Subject: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS<BR>&gt; Dat=
e: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:41:23 -0700<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; To help Darren with his=
 thesis project on live looping I thought it might be <BR>&gt; really good<=
BR>&gt; to come up with a current list of well known live looping artists.<=
BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; People not mentioned in his initial list would have to inc=
lude<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; IMOGEN HEAP (Frou Frou and solo career)<BR>&gt; <BR>&=
gt; JON BRION<BR>&gt; (film soundtracks, multi instrumentalist and the<BR>&=
gt; famous producer of Fiona Apple who has a weekly live looping <BR>&gt; g=
ig in Los Angeles)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; KID BEYOND)(Andrew Chaikin's beatboxing=
 all acapella live looping show is <BR>&gt; really attracting attention)<BR=
>&gt; <BR>&gt; ROB MASSIE (of 808 State just used live looping extensively =
in his SF show)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ARILD ANDERSEN (famous Norwegian jazz bass=
ist, part of the ECM records <BR>&gt; stable of solo and collaborative arti=
sts)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; EDDIE VEDDER (front man for Pearl Jam used live loopi=
ng in his solo concert <BR>&gt; just last week in Santa Cruz,<BR>&gt; paren=
thetically, his opening act also used live <BR>&gt; looping and, point of c=
ivic pride here, he wrote a brand<BR>&gt; new composition about how much he=
 loves Santa Cruz <BR>&gt; and performed it the evening that he wrote it)<B=
R>&gt; <BR>&gt; MATMOS (the producers who work with BJORK---I"m not sure he=
re, but it sure <BR>&gt; seemed like they were looping<BR>&gt; live in conc=
ert with her when I saw her recently)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; BILL FRISSEL (possib=
ly the most important American jazz artist today)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; DAVID TO=
RN (arguably the first high profile live looper and one who's been <BR>&gt;=
 doing digital looping as long as anyone)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; HENRY KAISER (on=
e of the most influential and famous experimental musicians <BR>&gt; in the=
 US today. He was literally<BR>&gt; doing live looping in the digital realm=
 earlier than <BR>&gt; anyone. I forgot the date that he told me but he<BR>=
&gt; was doing this back in the 70's with the earliest digital <BR>&gt; del=
ays)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ROBERT FRIPP (started much of this with his double RE=
VOX tape machine live <BR>&gt; loops called Frippertronics)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt=
; in our own community<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; MATTHIAS GROB (inventor of the Pard=
is delay which became the Gibson Echoplex <BR>&gt; EDP with loop IV)<BR>&gt=
; KIM FLINT (American guitarist and founder of LOOPERS DELIGHT, the mecca <=
BR>&gt; live looping website on the planet)<BR>&gt; ANDRE LAFOSSE (American=
 guitar)<BR>&gt; CLAUDE VOIT (Swiss guitar)<BR>&gt; ANDY BUTLER (British gu=
itar)<BR>&gt; BILL WALKER (American guitarist)<BR>&gt; PER BOYSEN (Swedish =
multi instrumentalist-popularizer of live looping in his <BR>&gt; country-f=
ounder of the 1st and 2nd SWEDISH LIVE LOOPING FESTIVALs)<BR>&gt; SUNAO INA=
MI (Japanese keyboardist/composer-popularizer of live looping in <BR>&gt; h=
is country- founder for the LOOPERS DELIGHT J live looping festivals)<BR>&g=
t; ERDEM HELVACIOGLU (Turkish composer/guitarist)<BR>&gt; BERNHARD WAGNER (=
Swiss guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his <BR>&gt; country and f=
ounder of the 1st INTERNATIONAL LOOP FESTIVAL ZURICH)<BR>&gt; ANDREW OSTLER=
 (British electronic composer - popularizer of live looping in <BR>&gt; his=
 country-founder of the CAMBRIDGE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)<BR>&gt; MAS=
SIMO LIVERANI (ITALIAN guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his <BR>&=
gt; country-founder of the 1st FIRENZE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL)<BR>&gt; MICHA=
EL PETERS (German experimental artist/guitarist - popularizer of live <BR>&=
gt; looping in his country)<BR>&gt; LEANDER REININGHAUS (German Guitarist -=
 popularizer of live looping in his <BR>&gt; country-founder of the BERLIN =
LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)<BR>&gt; MICHAEL KLOBUCHAR (American guitarist=
 and founder of the Chain Tape <BR>&gt; Collective which was influential to=
 the community<BR>&gt; from the early days of Loopers Delight until the <BR=
>&gt; present)<BR>&gt; HANS LINDAUER (American electronic music/bassist- wh=
o started the <BR>&gt; influential LOOPSTOCKHAUSEN festivals)<BR>&gt; RAINE=
R STRASCHILL (German guitarist - popularizer of the KKYBERJAM live <BR>&gt;=
 looping movement)<BR>&gt; KRISPEN HARTUNG (American avant garde guitarist =
- popularizer of the live <BR>&gt; looping and founder of the BOISE EXPERIM=
ENTAL<BR>&gt; MUSIC FESTIVAL)<BR>&gt; and all the loopers who produced smal=
l one off live looping festivals in <BR>&gt; their respective countries:<BR=
>&gt; <BR>&gt; Okay, my mind hurts and I know I've missed lots of people (p=
lease don't <BR>&gt; take offense if I"ve made glaring errors, I really do =
appreciate you.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; WHO ELSE? FAMOUS and also in our LOOPERS D=
ELIGHT community?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; okay, I know I"m missi=
ng people but I wondered if everyone would pitch in <BR>&gt; and give credi=
t where credit is due <BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>
<HR>
Try Messenger on your mobile. <A href=3D"http://mobile.uk.msn.com/pc/messen=
ger.aspx" target=3D_blank>Text MSN to 63463 Now.</A> </BLOCKQUOTE><br /><hr=
 />Get fish-slapping on Messenger <a href=3D'http://www.fishticuffs.co.uk' =
target=3D'_new'>Play now!</a></body>
</html>=

--_84940e07-4732-4627-8d75-63ab3a1492d9_--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 21 23:35:18 2008
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:35:02 -0400
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Charles Zwicky <cazwicky@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
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Eberhard Weber - His albums from the early 1990s, such as 1993's 
"pendulum" featured some fantastic solo bass looping.

-- 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 21 23:36:10 2008
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:36:00 -0500
From: Daryl Shawn <highhorse@mhorse.com>
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Some other high-profile peeps who use looping for at least part of their 
music.

Phil Keaggy
KT Tunstall
That pretty-boy acoustic pop star mentioned here a few months back...had 
a clubby hit...

and Nels Cline (among MANY other things, guitarist with the massive Wilco)

hth.

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 21 23:57:09 2008
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From: Scott Kellogg <bassnut@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Announcing electro-music 2008
X-Priority: 3
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:57:06 -0400
References: <j00b36k3LKfX7c.RZmta@mo-p07-ob.rzone.de> <01a601c8a401$ed0d1800$6601a8c0@americas.hpqcorp.net>
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You pay to play, that's just how it is.  Basically everyone there is a =20=

performer.  The concept of "audience" is unique in that way.  I played =20=

the 2005 event and it was well-worth the ticket price.  I had a great =20=

time.

On Apr 21, 2008, at 6:49 PM, Boise Experimental Music Festival wrote:

> Do they really mean performers, or non-performing participants? If =20
> the former, that is border line absurd.
>
> Kris
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rainer Thelonius Balthasar =20
> Straschill" <rs@moinlabs.de>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 3:19 PM
> Subject: AW: Announcing electro-music 2008
>
>
>>> I thought that many of you might be interested in this announcement.
>>> Bill
>>
>> Hilarious, Bill! Thanks for that good laugh:
>>
>>> Note that since this is a community event rather than a
>>> commercial event, all participants are required to purchase
>>> tickets for the event.
>

--
"However, faced with a fixed set of options, you are forced to employ =20=

those special, mystical powers =97 imagination and creativity."
- Paul Nagle






From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 00:03:38 2008
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Subject: RE:  LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
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What about Keller Williams??
He's a big influence on me and my decision to purchase an EDP.
Listening to his music and being frustrated w/ conventional bands,
it gave me the faith to start my own one man band.
He's used and EDP and the Jam Man, as far as I know.  Perhaps,
(please don't quote me) his most famous live album "Stage" is a two
disc solo performance - not to be missed.

nd
 






      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
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<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">What about Keller Williams??<br>He's a big influence on me and my decision to purchase an EDP.<br>Listening to his music and being frustrated w/ conventional bands,<br>it gave me the faith to start my own one man band.<br>He's used and EDP and the Jam Man, as far as I know.&nbsp; Perhaps,<br>(please don't quote me) his most famous live album "Stage" is a two<br>disc solo performance - not to be missed.<br><br>nd<br><div>&nbsp;</div><br><div><br></div></div><br>

      <hr size=1>Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ "> Try it now.</a></body></html>
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There's a name from the past! Long live ECM!!!

=-) PJ


-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Zwicky <cazwicky@earthlink.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 7:35 pm
Subject: RE: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS


Eberhard Weber - His albums from the early 1990s, such as 1993's "pendulum" featured some fantastic solo bass looping.?
?
-- ?


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There's a name from the past! Long live ECM!!!<br>
<br>
=-) PJ<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Charles Zwicky &lt;cazwicky@earthlink.net&gt;<br>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<br>
Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 7:35 pm<br>
Subject: RE: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS<br>
<br>


<div id=AOLMsgPart_0_62b5c4e6-e91f-41b4-944c-b5d33e089750 style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff">Eberhard Weber - His albums from the early 1990s, such as 1993's "pendulum" featured some fantastic solo bass looping.&nbsp;<br>
&nbsp;<br>
-- &nbsp;<br>
</div>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 00:23:48 2008
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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:23:33 -0400
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Charles Zwicky <cazwicky@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
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Let's not forget that Eberhard Weber is nearly singlehandedly 
responsible for 'breaking' Bill Frisell with his 1979 album "Fluid 
Rustle" and 1982's "Later that Evening" (featuring Lyle Mays as 
well)...

>There's a name from the past! Long live ECM!!!
>
>=-) PJ
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Charles Zwicky <cazwicky@earthlink.net>
>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 7:35 pm
>Subject: RE: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
>
>Eberhard Weber - His albums from the early 1990s, such as 1993's 
>"pendulum" featured some fantastic solo bass looping. 
>
>--  
>
>
>Get the 
><http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003>MapQuest 
>Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More!


-- 
...
http://www.zmix.net
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<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 }
 --></style><title>Re: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING
ARTISTS</title></head><body>
<div>Let's not forget that Eberhard Weber is nearly singlehandedly
responsible for 'breaking' Bill Frisell with his 1979 album
&quot;Fluid Rustle&quot; and 1982's &quot;Later that Evening&quot;
(featuring Lyle Mays as well)...</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>There's a name from the past! Long live
ECM!!!<br>
<br>
=-) PJ<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Charles Zwicky &lt;cazwicky@earthlink.net&gt;<br>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<br>
Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 7:35 pm<br>
Subject: RE: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Eberhard Weber - His albums from the
early 1990s, such as 1993's &quot;pendulum&quot; featured some
fantastic solo bass looping.&nbsp;<br>
&nbsp;<br>
-- &nbsp;<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>
<hr></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Get the <a
href="http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003"
>MapQuest Toolbar</a>, Maps, Traffic, Directions &amp;
More!</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<x-sigsep><pre>-- 
</pre></x-sigsep>
<div>...<br>
http://www.zmix.net</div>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 00:35:25 2008
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From: "Bob Amstadt" <bobld@amstadt.com>
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Subject: Re: Announcing electro-music 2008
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:35:14 -0700
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> You pay to play, that's just how it is.  Basically everyone there is a 
> performer.  The concept of "audience" is unique in that way.  I played 
> the 2005 event and it was well-worth the ticket price.  I had a great 
> time.

Yea, unless a festival can secure enough corporate sponsors, you are forced 
to run it this way.  Basically, you can think of it as a convention.  People 
are gathered to share their art with their peers.

-Bob Amstadt 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 00:38:14 2008
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Subject: Re[2]: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
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I'd like to add Dosh.  (he plays alot with Andrew Bird, who has already been mentioned, but also does some fantastic solo work as well, so far as I know using nothing but and Akai E2, and he's more fluid with that thing than a lot of guys with bigger, shinier toys.)

Also, Tim Reynolds.  On his solo tours, he uses the Line 6 DD4 along with a Boss DD6.  I wouldn't call him a loop-based artist per se, but he does do a fair bit of it, and he does it well.

---------------------------------------
Original E-mail
From: Charles Zwicky [cazwicky@earthlink.net]
Date: 04/21/2008 08:23 PM 
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS

Let's not forget that Eberhard Weber is nearly singlehandedly 
responsible for 'breaking' Bill Frisell with his 1979 album "Fluid 
Rustle" and 1982's "Later that Evening" (featuring Lyle Mays as 
well)...

>There's a name from the past! Long live ECM!!!
>
>=-) PJ
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Charles Zwicky <cazwicky@earthlink.net>
>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 7:35 pm
>Subject: RE: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
>
>Eberhard Weber - His albums from the early 1990s, such as 1993's 
>"pendulum" featured some fantastic solo bass looping. 
>
>--  
>
>
>Get the 
><http://www.mapquest.com/toolbar?NCID=mpqmap00030000000003>MapQuest 
>Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More!


-- 
...
http://www.zmix.net


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 00:42:11 2008
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Subject: Re: Announcing electro-music 2008
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That's exactly what it is.  There are some seriously out-there  
electronics at the event.  They year I went featured the Nord Modular  
programming club from the Netherlands.  Cool folks.  And Wave World.   
Those guys got a standing ovation.

On Apr 21, 2008, at 8:35 PM, Bob Amstadt wrote:

>> You pay to play, that's just how it is.  Basically everyone there  
>> is a performer.  The concept of "audience" is unique in that way.   
>> I played the 2005 event and it was well-worth the ticket price.  I  
>> had a great time.
>
> Yea, unless a festival can secure enough corporate sponsors, you are  
> forced to run it this way.  Basically, you can think of it as a  
> convention.  People are gathered to share their art with their peers.
>
> -Bob Amstadt

--
"There is only one music."
- Jonas Hellborg






From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 01:23:17 2008
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From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?tEd_=AE_KiLLiAn?= <tedkillian@charter.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Re]: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:23:12 -0700
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Hi gang,

A few semi-obscure famous loopers who have been missed so far in this=20
listing:

Cuong Vu (Trumpet player with Pat Metheny)

Shawn Lane (the late guitarist who toured the world with Jonas Helborg)

Bill Nelson (former guitarist with BeeBop DeLuxe, among others)

Michael Brook (sometime guitarist with Eno and Lanois . . . and on his=20=

own recordings)

Mark Egan (another bassist who was looping back in the '80s)

Steve Lawson (another bassis who is continuing to make significant=20
noise on the  UK side of the "pond").

Adrian Belew (fellow Crim of his venal majesty himself [Fripp] of=20
course)

Jim Thomas (the guitarist with the Mermen)

Trey Gunn (Warr touch-guitar player and another former Crimsoid)

Brian Kenney Fresno (the one and only)

Craig Chaquico (apparently does solo acoustic shows with looping=20
accompaniment)

Eivind Aarset (Scandinavian avant-techno-looping-jazz-noise guitarist=20
with Nils Petter Molv=E6r )

Chet Atkins (the late great picker even had a n album called "JamMan")

Less Paul (probably invented "looping" guitar as we know it back in the=20=

'50s and still alive and kickin')

Elliot Sharp (NYC avant-noise guitarist)

Gavin Bryars (contemporaty composer)

Sonny Sharrock (aparenty did a solo guitar album befor he dies that=20
evidently utilized looping)

Patrick O'hearn (another bassist in the '80-'90s that did a solo album=20=

or two that used looping)

Steve Tibbetts (grammy nominated guitarist, producer and sound collage=20=

artist)

And those are just a few more to add to your lists . . .

Ted=

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 01:27:51 2008
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Any users on this list (of the RC-50 tee hee).  I'm concentrating on =20
what it /can/ do rather than /cannot/.

Scott
--
"However, faced with a fixed set of options, you are forced to employ =20=

those special, mystical powers =97 imagination and creativity."
- Paul Nagle






From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 01:39:19 2008
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From: Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com>
Subject: Re: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:39:13 -0400
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Keller Williams. John Scofield.
On Apr 21, 2008, at 7:36 PM, Daryl Shawn wrote:

> Some other high-profile peeps who use looping for at least part of  
> their music.
>
> Phil Keaggy
> KT Tunstall
> That pretty-boy acoustic pop star mentioned here a few months  
> back...had a clubby hit...
>
> and Nels Cline (among MANY other things, guitarist with the massive  
> Wilco)
>
> hth.
>
> Daryl Shawn
> www.swanwelder.com
> www.chinapaintingmusic.com
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 01:56:49 2008
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Don Caballero (band)

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From: Richard Sales <richard@glasswing.com>
Subject: Re: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:05:12 -0700
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I don't know if you got this guy.  In Wired recently:

http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/04/video-david-for.htm

richard sales
glassWing farm and studio
vancouver island, b.c.
www.glassWing.com     www.richardsales.com
www.hayleysales.com     www.joannesales.com
www.blueberryfieldsfarm.com
www.broombusters.org


On 21-Apr-08, at 3:41 PM, Rick Walker wrote:

> To help Darren with his thesis project on live looping I thought it 
> might be really good
> to come up with a current list of well known live looping artists.
>
> People not mentioned in his initial list would have to include
>
> IMOGEN HEAP  (Frou Frou and solo career)
>
> JON BRION
>                (film soundtracks, multi instrumentalist and the
>                famous producer of Fiona Apple who has a weekly live 
> looping gig in Los Angeles)
>
> KID BEYOND)(Andrew Chaikin's beatboxing all acapella live looping show 
> is really attracting attention)
>
> ROB MASSIE (of 808 State just used live looping extensively in his SF 
> show)
>
> ARILD ANDERSEN  (famous Norwegian jazz bassist,  part of the ECM 
> records stable of solo and collaborative artists)
>
> EDDIE VEDDER (front man for Pearl Jam used live looping in his solo 
> concert just last week in Santa Cruz,
>                        parenthetically,  his opening act also used 
> live looping and, point of civic pride here,  he wrote a brand
>                        new composition about how much he loves Santa 
> Cruz and performed it the evening that he wrote it)
>
> MATMOS (the producers who work with BJORK---I"m not sure here, but it 
> sure seemed like they were looping
>                  live in concert with her when I saw her recently)
>
> BILL FRISSEL  (possibly the most important American jazz artist today)
>
> DAVID TORN   (arguably the first high profile live looper and one 
> who's been doing digital looping as long as anyone)
>
> HENRY KAISER  (one of the most influential and famous experimental 
> musicians in the US today.   He was literally
>                   doing live looping in the digital realm earlier than 
> anyone.  I forgot the date that he told me but he
>                   was doing this back in the 70's with the earliest 
> digital delays)
>
> ROBERT FRIPP   (started much of this with his double REVOX tape 
> machine live loops called Frippertronics)
>
> in our own community
>
> MATTHIAS GROB (inventor of the Pardis delay which became the Gibson 
> Echoplex EDP with loop IV)
> KIM FLINT (American guitarist and founder of LOOPERS DELIGHT,  the 
> mecca live looping website on the planet)
> ANDRE LAFOSSE (American guitar)
> CLAUDE VOIT  (Swiss guitar)
> ANDY BUTLER (British guitar)
> BILL WALKER  (American guitarist)
> PER BOYSEN (Swedish multi instrumentalist-popularizer of live looping 
> in his country-founder of the 1st and 2nd SWEDISH LIVE LOOPING 
> FESTIVALs)
> SUNAO INAMI (Japanese keyboardist/composer-popularizer of live looping 
> in his country- founder for the LOOPERS DELIGHT J live looping 
> festivals)
> ERDEM HELVACIOGLU (Turkish composer/guitarist)
> BERNHARD WAGNER (Swiss guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his 
> country and founder of the 1st INTERNATIONAL LOOP FESTIVAL ZURICH)
> ANDREW OSTLER  (British electronic composer - popularizer of live 
> looping in his country-founder of the CAMBRIDGE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL 
> series)
> MASSIMO LIVERANI (ITALIAN guitarist - popularizer of live looping in 
> his country-founder of the 1st FIRENZE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL)
> MICHAEL PETERS (German experimental artist/guitarist - popularizer of 
> live looping in his country)
> LEANDER REININGHAUS (German Guitarist - popularizer of live looping in 
> his country-founder of the BERLIN LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)
> MICHAEL KLOBUCHAR (American guitarist and founder of the Chain Tape 
> Collective which was influential to the community
>                    from the early days of Loopers Delight until the 
> present)
> HANS LINDAUER (American electronic music/bassist- who started the 
> influential LOOPSTOCKHAUSEN festivals)
> RAINER STRASCHILL (German guitarist - popularizer of the KKYBERJAM 
> live looping movement)
> KRISPEN HARTUNG  (American avant garde guitarist - popularizer of the 
> live looping and founder of the BOISE EXPERIMENTAL
>                                  MUSIC FESTIVAL)
> and all the loopers who produced small one off live looping festivals 
> in their respective countries:
>
> Okay,  my mind hurts and I know I've missed lots of people (please 
> don't take offense if I"ve made glaring errors,  I really do 
> appreciate you.
>
> WHO ELSE?       FAMOUS and also in our LOOPERS DELIGHT community?
>
>
>
> okay,  I know I"m missing people but I wondered if everyone would 
> pitch in and give credit where credit is due

--Apple-Mail-9-741962388
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I don't know if you got this guy.  In Wired recently:


<color><param>0000,0000,EEEE</param>http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/04/video-david-for.htm

</color>

<fontfamily><param>Gadget</param>richard sales

<color><param>7373,7F7F,C5C5</param>glassWing farm and studio</color>

vancouver island, b.c.<color><param>C3C3,9696,1C1C</param>   

www.glassWing.com     www.richardsales.com

www.hayleysales.com     www.joannesales.com

www.blueberryfieldsfarm.com     

www.broombusters.org


</color></fontfamily>

On 21-Apr-08, at 3:41 PM, Rick Walker wrote:


<excerpt>To help Darren with his thesis project on live looping I
thought it might be really good

to come up with a current list of well known live looping artists.


People not mentioned in his initial list would have to include


IMOGEN HEAP  (Frou Frou and solo career)


JON BRION

               (film soundtracks, multi instrumentalist and the

               famous producer of Fiona Apple who has a weekly live
looping gig in Los Angeles)


KID BEYOND)(Andrew Chaikin's beatboxing all acapella live looping show
is really attracting attention)


ROB MASSIE (of 808 State just used live looping extensively in his SF
show)


ARILD ANDERSEN  (famous Norwegian jazz bassist,  part of the ECM
records stable of solo and collaborative artists)


EDDIE VEDDER (front man for Pearl Jam used live looping in his solo
concert just last week in Santa Cruz,

                       parenthetically,  his opening act also used
live looping and, point of civic pride here,  he wrote a brand

                       new composition about how much he loves Santa
Cruz and performed it the evening that he wrote it)


MATMOS (the producers who work with BJORK---I"m not sure here, but it
sure seemed like they were looping

                 live in concert with her when I saw her recently)


BILL FRISSEL  (possibly the most important American jazz artist today)


DAVID TORN   (arguably the first high profile live looper and one
who's been doing digital looping as long as anyone)


HENRY KAISER  (one of the most influential and famous experimental
musicians in the US today.   He was literally

                  doing live looping in the digital realm earlier than
anyone.  I forgot the date that he told me but he

                  was doing this back in the 70's with the earliest
digital delays)


ROBERT FRIPP   (started much of this with his double REVOX tape
machine live loops called Frippertronics)


in our own community


MATTHIAS GROB (inventor of the Pardis delay which became the Gibson
Echoplex EDP with loop IV)

KIM FLINT (American guitarist and founder of LOOPERS DELIGHT,  the
mecca live looping website on the planet)

ANDRE LAFOSSE (American guitar)

CLAUDE VOIT  (Swiss guitar)

ANDY BUTLER (British guitar)

BILL WALKER  (American guitarist)

PER BOYSEN (Swedish multi instrumentalist-popularizer of live looping
in his country-founder of the 1st and 2nd SWEDISH LIVE LOOPING
FESTIVALs)

SUNAO INAMI (Japanese keyboardist/composer-popularizer of live looping
in his country- founder for the LOOPERS DELIGHT J live looping
festivals)

ERDEM HELVACIOGLU (Turkish composer/guitarist)

BERNHARD WAGNER (Swiss guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his
country and founder of the 1st INTERNATIONAL LOOP FESTIVAL ZURICH)

ANDREW OSTLER  (British electronic composer - popularizer of live
looping in his country-founder of the CAMBRIDGE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL
series)

MASSIMO LIVERANI (ITALIAN guitarist - popularizer of live looping in
his country-founder of the 1st FIRENZE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL)

MICHAEL PETERS (German experimental artist/guitarist - popularizer of
live looping in his country)

LEANDER REININGHAUS (German Guitarist - popularizer of live looping in
his country-founder of the BERLIN LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)

MICHAEL KLOBUCHAR (American guitarist and founder of the Chain Tape
Collective which was influential to the community

                   from the early days of Loopers Delight until the
present)

HANS LINDAUER (American electronic music/bassist- who started the
influential LOOPSTOCKHAUSEN festivals)

RAINER STRASCHILL (German guitarist - popularizer of the KKYBERJAM
live looping movement)

KRISPEN HARTUNG  (American avant garde guitarist - popularizer of the
live looping and founder of the BOISE EXPERIMENTAL

                                 MUSIC FESTIVAL)

and all the loopers who produced small one off live looping festivals
in their respective countries:


Okay,  my mind hurts and I know I've missed lots of people (please
don't take offense if I"ve made glaring errors,  I really do
appreciate you.


WHO ELSE?       FAMOUS and also in our LOOPERS DELIGHT community?




okay,  I know I"m missing people but I wondered if everyone would
pitch in and give credit where credit is due 

</excerpt>
--Apple-Mail-9-741962388--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 02:37:46 2008
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	id 3727B3BE7F; Tue, 22 Apr 2008 02:37:46 +0000 (UTC)
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From: phillip wilson <phillwilson@hotmail.com>
To: <loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: Programming the FCB1010 for the EDP (Karma)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 02:37:44 +0000
Importance: Normal
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--_41ddd86b-9783-473f-a056-374996a90264_
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Well...........the hour is late and I should be in bed long ago but I just =
HAD to post, after a night of almost endless frustration I think I have SOL=
VED 3 EDPs controlled off one FCB 1010 using Midi NOTES!!
=20
edpA offset=3D0
MUT  SUSOVR   SUSREP   UNDo   NEXT                      6             15   =
    21           7      8                        =20
REC  OVRDUB  MULTIP    REVS    HLFSPD                   reset all2       3 =
             4         13          12                       26=20
=20
edpB  offset- 44 =20
MUT     SUSOVR  SUSREP  UNDo  NEXT                     50           59     =
     65       51      52                        =20
REC  OVRDUB    MULTIP  REVS  HLFSPD                    reset all46     47  =
            48       57      56                           70=20
=20
edpC  offset 89
MUT      SUSOVR  SUSREP  UNDo  NEXT                     reset   95        1=
04        110        96    97                        115REC     OVRDUB   MU=
LTIP   REVS   HLFSPD                                        91          92 =
       93       102      103=20
=20
 Basically the three resets all go on page00 with EDPs in banks 01/02/03 as=
 listed
=20
I ended up having to shunt the midi numbers closer togeather one at a time =
and noting any bad reactions from any of the other EDPs til i found this pa=
ticular combo
=20
=20
ALSO on the issue of synch, i used an older maplin headphone splitter and i=
t now seems to work 90 PERCENT of the time in brother sync...i think the ti=
mes it doesnt I am accidentally breaking out of the sync through miss press=
ing long or short presses, im not sure. but so far looks promising.
=20
now I just need to solve a distortion problem and I will be set to gig YAY
=20
Phill MyOneManBand
=20
PS....when it first started to work , i actually pinched myself to make sur=
e i hadnt fallen asleep and was dreaming i had fixed it=20
 =20


From: phillwilson@hotmail.comTo: loopers-delight@loopers-delight.comSubject=
: RE: Programming the FCB1010 for the EDP (Karma)Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 22:=
03:17 +0000


Hi there....talk about problems!!! With the CC fudge-solution sugested here=
 I can get the following by keeping the cc's on channel1 with a source offs=
et of 36 BOTTOM ROW  1 record using just one cc...and a Value of 38-01 (I t=
hen tried using a value of 38-01 as CC1 followed by a value of 38-00 ...thi=
s resulted in having to tap the pedal en extra time before it would begin o=
r stop recording , i dont know why.) 2 overdub again seems to work using ju=
st one cc 39-01 3 multiply again just one cc seding out 40-01 4 half speed =
 48-01  5 reverse 49-01 (should these have other numbers following them in =
a seccond cc? if so can someone give an example I can work with?)TOP ROW6 M=
ute 42-01 seems to work now7 Sus Overdub ...cant find any combination of cc=
's to work8 Sus Replace ... again can't get working9 Undo CC1 43-01.... CC2=
 43-00 .......seems to kind of work but the EDP light goes perminantly red =
and this sometimes seems to glitch and stop all other buttons working 0 Nex=
t Loop 44-01 on another page I have also been tying to get reset but cant g=
et it to work consistently (sometimes it seems to work but not always)using=
 cc1 62-01 followed by cc2 62-01  the nmbers are the order in which i put t=
hem into the fcb1010 hope it makes sense, am i putting them in the wrong or=
der or choosing incorrect numbers? i just dont know where to start. OK If i=
 have to move on and get more kit I think my first port of call will be Uno=
, is anyone using an Uno modded FCB1010 with a EDP using CC's on here? does=
 it work? I would love to hear from you. Many thanks for continued helpPhil=
l Wilson> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:05:45 +0100> From: akbutler@tiscali.co.=
uk> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com> Subject: Re: Programming the F=
CB1010 for the EDP (Karma)> > hi Phillip> > You can use CC to operate an ED=
P,> but using the fcb1010 gives limited results,> as the edp needs the CC e=
quivalent of Note-Offs > if you're going to get the same results.> > i.e. i=
f when you released he switch you > could send the corresponding CC with a =
value of 0 then all would be> well, thus giving you all the needed LongPres=
s and ShortPress functions.> ...but the fcb doesn't do that > > > Just send=
ing the first CC on it's own always gives you LongPress,> ...so every time =
you try Record, you get a Reset :-(> > > As fcb can send 2 CCs, you could p=
rogram in a ShortPress,> by sending the CC of value 0 immediately after the=
 CC for the function.> ..but problem is you have to program another switch =
if you want the > LongPress at all. > > Lack of EDP3 response....check the =
fcb global midi channel for the CCs.> > > Conclusion...it doesn't work that=
 well :-(> > Suggestion...use a Midi Router instead. Andre Lafosse controll=
ed 5 edps with one of those.> > Or..Get the Uno firmware upgrade for you fc=
b which solves the CC problem. > > > andy butler> > phillip wilson wrote:> =
> Hi Erland..and all...> > > > Heres a deal for you....Erland, I will email=
 u offlist and work this > > through with u, I have two EDPs up and running=
 with the FCB > > perfectly..Im confident I can get u up and running.> > > =
> HERES THE CATCH EVERYONE ELSE----> > Will someone further up the ladder i=
n EDP usership help ME!!!> > > > I need to control 3 EDPs of one Behringer =
FCB1010....> > so far I can get two to play using notes and offsets of 0 an=
d 48 on > > Channel 1...........but if I try to add the same commands for E=
DP3 I run > > out of midi notes at the top end (would need 137) If i bunch =
the offsets > > closer together there seems to be cross talk between the de=
sired > > function on EDP3 and some undesired function on EDP2 due to overl=
ap.> > > > I am therefor hoping I can use FCB1010 with the edp set to CTR i=
nstead > > to grab them last buttons, however at the moment I cant get any =
reaction > > at all out of EDP3> > > > It is still set to channel 1 same as=
 the notes and I have brought the > > offset back to 0 seeing as we are usi=
ng CTR's so there shouldnt be any > > miss-infomations (right???) basically=
 if you have made an EDP work using > > a behringer FCB1010 and CTR's I wou=
ld love to hear from you.> > > > Pay It Forward> > > > Phill> > > > > Date:=
 Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:20:09 +0200> > > From: perboysen@gmail.com> > > To: Lo=
opers-Delight@loopers-delight.com> > > Subject: Re: Programming the FCB1010=
 for the EDP> > >> > > On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 6:28 PM, Erland <erlandka2@g=
mail.com> wrote:> > > > Is there a guide out there to programming the FCB10=
10 for use with > > the EDP> > > > other than the Behringer and Echoplex ma=
nuals?> > > > I've already given up a few times even though I find myself q=
uite> > > > technically minded.> > > >> > > > I'm mostly interested in the =
granular functions and feedback pedal as I> > > > already have the Gibson a=
nd Digitech footcontrollers.> > > >> > > >> > > > Thanks much,> > > >> > > =
> Erland> > >> > >> > > Try searching the archives of this list! The topic =
has been up many> > > times. I bet you will find at least three good guides=
 ;-)> > >> > > --> > > Greetings from Sweden> > >> > > Per Boysen> > > www.=
boysen.se (Swedish)> > > www.looproom.com (international)> > > www.stockhol=
m-athens.com> > >> > > > > > ----------------------------------------------=
--------------------------> > Try Messenger on your mobile. Text MSN to 634=
63 Now. > > <http://mobile.uk.msn.com/pc/messenger.aspx >>=20

Have you played Fishticuffs? Get fish-slapping on Messenger=20
_________________________________________________________________
The next generation of Windows Live is here
http://www.windowslive.co.uk/get-live=

--_41ddd86b-9783-473f-a056-374996a90264_
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<body class=3D'hmmessage'>
Well...........the hour is late and I should be in bed long ago but I just =
HAD to post, after a night of almost endless frustration I think I have SOL=
VED 3 EDPs controlled off&nbsp;one FCB 1010 using Midi NOTES!!<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
edpA offset=3D0<BR>
MUT&nbsp; SUSOVR&nbsp;&nbsp; SUSREP&nbsp;&nbsp; UNDo&nbsp;&nbsp; NEXT&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>6&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 15&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; 21&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 7&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 8&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>
REC&nbsp; OVRDUB&nbsp; MULTIP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; REVS&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; HLFS=
PD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; reset all<BR>2&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 13&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 12&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 26<BR>&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
<BR>edpB&nbsp; offset- 44&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>
MUT&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SUSOVR&nbsp; SUSREP&nbsp; UNDo&nbsp; NEXT&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>50&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 59&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;65&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 51&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 52&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>
REC&nbsp; OVRDUB&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; MULTIP&nbsp; REVS&nbsp; HLFSPD&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; reset all<BR>46&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 47&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;48&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 57&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p; 56&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; 70 <BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
<BR>edpC&nbsp; offset 89<BR>
MUT&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; SUSOVR&nbsp; SUSREP&nbsp; UNDo&nbsp; NEXT=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; reset<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;95=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 104&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp; 110&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 96&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp; 97&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 115=
<BR>REC&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; OVRDUB&nbsp;&nbsp; MULTIP&nbsp; &nbsp;REVS&=
nbsp;&nbsp; HLFSPD&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; 91&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;92&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;93&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 102&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 103<BR>&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;Basically the three resets all go on page00 with EDPs in banks 01/02/=
03 as listed<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
I ended up having to shunt the midi numbers closer togeather one at a time =
and noting any bad reactions from any of the other EDPs til i found this pa=
ticular combo<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
ALSO on the issue of synch, i used an older maplin headphone splitter and i=
t now seems to work 90 PERCENT of the time in brother sync...i think the ti=
mes it doesnt I am accidentally breaking out of the sync through miss press=
ing long or short presses, im not sure. but so far looks promising.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
now I just need to solve a distortion problem and I will be set to gig YAY<=
BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
Phill MyOneManBand<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
PS....when it first started to work , i actually pinched myself to make sur=
e i hadnt fallen asleep and was dreaming i had fixed it <BR>
<BR>&nbsp; <BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
From: phillwilson@hotmail.com<BR>To: loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com<BR=
>Subject: RE: Programming the FCB1010 for the EDP (Karma)<BR>Date: Mon, 21 =
Apr 2008 22:03:17 +0000<BR><BR>
<META content=3D"Microsoft SafeHTML" name=3DGenerator>
<STYLE>
.ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P
{padding:0px;}
.ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage
{font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}
</STYLE>
Hi there....talk about problems!!!<BR>&nbsp;<BR>With the CC fudge-solution =
sugested here I can get the following by keeping the&nbsp;cc's on channel1 =
with a source offset of 36<BR>&nbsp;<BR>BOTTOM ROW<BR>&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;1 rec=
ord using just one cc...and a&nbsp;Value of 38-01<BR>&nbsp;<BR><EM>(I then =
tried using a value of 38-01 as CC1 followed by a value of 38-00 ...this re=
sulted in having to tap the pedal en extra time before it would begin or st=
op recording , i dont know why.)</EM><BR><EM></EM>&nbsp;<BR>2 overdub again=
 seems to work using just one cc 39-01<BR>&nbsp;<BR>3 multiply again just o=
ne cc seding out 40-01<BR>&nbsp;<BR>4 half speed&nbsp; 48-01&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp=
;<BR>5 reverse 49-01<BR>&nbsp;<BR>(should these have other numbers followin=
g them in a seccond cc? if so can someone give an example I can work with?)=
<BR><BR>TOP ROW<BR>6 Mute 42-01 seems to work now<BR>7 Sus Overdub ...cant =
find any combination of cc's to work<BR>8 Sus Replace ... again can't get w=
orking<BR>9 Undo CC1 43-01.... CC2 43-00 .......seems to kind of work but t=
he EDP light goes perminantly red and this sometimes seems to glitch and st=
op&nbsp;all other buttons working&nbsp;<BR>0 Next Loop 44-01<BR>&nbsp;<BR>o=
n another page I have also been tying to get reset but cant get it to work =
consistently (sometimes it seems to work but not always)using cc1 62-01 fol=
lowed by cc2 62-01 <BR>&nbsp;<BR>the nmbers are the order in which i put th=
em into the fcb1010 hope it makes sense, am i putting them in the wrong ord=
er or choosing incorrect numbers? i just dont know where to start.<BR>&nbsp=
;<BR>OK If i have to move on and get more kit I think my first port of call=
 will be Uno, is anyone using an Uno modded FCB1010 with a EDP using CC's o=
n here? does it work? I would love to hear from you.<BR>&nbsp;<BR>Many than=
ks for continued help<BR>Phill Wilson<BR>&gt; Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:05:=
45 +0100<BR>&gt; From: akbutler@tiscali.co.uk<BR>&gt; To: Loopers-Delight@l=
oopers-delight.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Programming the FCB1010 for the EDP=
 (Karma)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; hi Phillip<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; You can use CC to ope=
rate an EDP,<BR>&gt; but using the fcb1010 gives limited results,<BR>&gt; a=
s the edp needs the CC equivalent of Note-Offs <BR>&gt; if you're going to =
get the same results.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; i.e. if when you released he switch =
you <BR>&gt; could send the corresponding CC with a value of 0 then all wou=
ld be<BR>&gt; well, thus giving you all the needed LongPress and ShortPress=
 functions.<BR>&gt; ...but the fcb doesn't do that <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&g=
t; Just sending the first CC on it's own always gives you LongPress,<BR>&gt=
; ...so every time you try Record, you get a Reset :-(<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR=
>&gt; As fcb can send 2 CCs, you could program in a ShortPress,<BR>&gt; by =
sending the CC of value 0 immediately after the CC for the function.<BR>&gt=
; ..but problem is you have to program another switch if you want the <BR>&=
gt; LongPress at all. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Lack of EDP3 response....check the =
fcb global midi channel for the CCs.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Conclusion..=
.it doesn't work that well :-(<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Suggestion...use a Midi Rou=
ter instead. Andre Lafosse controlled 5 edps with one of those.<BR>&gt; <BR=
>&gt; Or..Get the Uno firmware upgrade for you fcb which solves the CC prob=
lem. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; andy butler<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; phillip wilson=
 wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Hi Erland..and all...<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Heres=
 a deal for you....Erland, I will email u offlist and work this <BR>&gt; &g=
t; through with u, I have two EDPs up and running with the FCB <BR>&gt; &gt=
; perfectly..Im confident I can get u up and running.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt;=
 &gt; HERES THE CATCH EVERYONE ELSE----<BR>&gt; &gt; Will someone further u=
p the ladder in EDP usership help ME!!!<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I need t=
o control 3 EDPs of one Behringer FCB1010....<BR>&gt; &gt; so far I can get=
 two to play using notes and offsets of 0 and 48 on <BR>&gt; &gt; Channel 1=
...........but if I try to add the same commands for EDP3 I run <BR>&gt; &g=
t; out of midi notes at the top end (would need 137) If i bunch the offsets=
 <BR>&gt; &gt; closer together there seems to be cross talk between the des=
ired <BR>&gt; &gt; function on EDP3 and some undesired function on EDP2 due=
 to overlap.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I am therefor hoping I can use FCB1=
010 with the edp set to CTR instead <BR>&gt; &gt; to grab them last buttons=
, however at the moment I cant get any reaction <BR>&gt; &gt; at all out of=
 EDP3<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; It is still set to channel 1 same as the n=
otes and I have brought the <BR>&gt; &gt; offset back to 0 seeing as we are=
 using CTR's so there shouldnt be any <BR>&gt; &gt; miss-infomations (right=
???) basically if you have made an EDP work using <BR>&gt; &gt; a behringer=
 FCB1010 and CTR's I would love to hear from you.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt=
; Pay It Forward<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Phill<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:20:09 +0200<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: perboy=
sen@gmail.com<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<BR>=
&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: Re: Programming the FCB1010 for the EDP<BR>&gt; &gt=
; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 6:28 PM, Erland &lt;erland=
ka2@gmail.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Is there a guide out there =
to programming the FCB1010 for use with <BR>&gt; &gt; the EDP<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt; other than the Behringer and Echoplex manuals?<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; =
&gt; I've already given up a few times even though I find myself quite<BR>&=
gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; technically minded.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; =
&gt; &gt; I'm mostly interested in the granular functions and feedback peda=
l as I<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; already have the Gibson and Digitech footcont=
rollers.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &g=
t; Thanks much,<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Erland<BR>&gt=
; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Try searching the archives =
of this list! The topic has been up many<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; times. I bet you=
 will find at least three good guides ;-)<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; --<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Greetings from Sweden<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt=
; &gt; Per Boysen<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; www.boysen.se (Swedish)<BR>&gt; &gt; &g=
t; www.looproom.com (international)<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; www.stockholm-athens.=
com<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; ------------=
------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; &gt; T=
ry Messenger on your mobile. Text MSN to 63463 Now. <BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;http:=
//mobile.uk.msn.com/pc/messenger.aspx &gt;<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>
<HR>
Have you played Fishticuffs? <A href=3D"http://www.fishticuffs.co.uk/" targ=
et=3D_blank>Get fish-slapping on Messenger</A> </BLOCKQUOTE><br /><hr />Get=
 fish-slapping on Messenger <a href=3D'http://www.fishticuffs.co.uk' target=
=3D'_new'>Play now!</a></body>
</html>=

--_41ddd86b-9783-473f-a056-374996a90264_--

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Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 22:49:36 -0400
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Subject: Re: Why SHOULDN'T musicians be paid? (but I digress into Keeping Your Day Job)
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This has been an unbelievably stimulating thread.

I thought I'd throw an interesting conversation into the mix.

I don't know if anyone here follows Hugh MacLeod (gapingvoid)

but his post "how to be creative" has been a stimulating field for thought
for me.

Relative to this conversation is this particular part of the post, number
7.

Keep Your Day Job
http://www.gapingvoid.com/Moveable_Type/archives/000889.html

I hope it's a good contribution to the conversation, I think it's a
worthwhile click, and hope it's not a duplicate post here.

All Best,

Todd

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<div class="gmail_quote">This has been an unbelievably stimulating thread.&nbsp;</div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">I thought I&#39;d throw an interesting conversation into the mix. &nbsp;</div><div class="gmail_quote">
<br></div><div class="gmail_quote">I don&#39;t know if anyone here follows Hugh MacLeod (gapingvoid)</div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">but his post &quot;how to be creative&quot; has been a stimulating field for thought for me.&nbsp;</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">Relative to this conversation is this particular part of the post, number 7.&nbsp;</div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">Keep Your Day Job &nbsp;<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; "><a href="http://www.gapingvoid.com/Moveable_Type/archives/000889.html">http://www.gapingvoid.com/Moveable_Type/archives/000889.html</a></span></div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><br></span></font></div><div class="gmail_quote"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">I hope it&#39;s a good contribution to the conversation, I think it&#39;s a worthwhile click, and hope it&#39;s not a duplicate post here.</span></font></div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><br></span></font></div><div class="gmail_quote"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">All Best,</span></font></div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;"><br></span></font></div><div class="gmail_quote"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px;">Todd</span></font></div>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 02:54:08 2008
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From: "Boise Experimental Music Festival" <khartung@cableone.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
References: <j00b36k3LKfX7c.RZmta@mo-p07-ob.rzone.de> <01a601c8a401$ed0d1800$6601a8c0@americas.hpqcorp.net> <1AE4E20E-A701-48DF-B0C0-FFE50D733D62@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Announcing electro-music 2008
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:54:05 -0600
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Wow. It's bad enough that performers have to pay between $500 and $1000 for 
their own travel expenses. I take it the festival does not bring in enough 
door ticket sales (not from performers) to pay for the event costs (venue 
rental, equipment rental, etc).

Running festivals is tough. This is my third year, and I track a very 
precise budget and +/- cashflow. Essentially, it is a minus profit event, 
which is why I will probably file for non-profit status before next year's 
festival. I have some folks in the community helping me with this. It will 
give me access to a whole new range of grant dollars, from $1000, which I 
get now from an individual grant from the National Endowment for the Arts, 
to grants in the range of $50,000. That would pay for the travel expenses of 
20 performers, give them $500 in their pockets, pay for the venue, all of 
the promotion, pay for the sound guy, stage manager, door person, video 
screen rental, and many other things. It would be a wonderful thing.

Kris

----- Original Message ----- 



You pay to play, that's just how it is.  Basically everyone there is a
performer.  The concept of "audience" is unique in that way.  I played
the 2005 event and it was well-worth the ticket price.  I had a great
time.

On Apr 21, 2008, at 6:49 PM, Boise Experimental Music Festival wrote:

> Do they really mean performers, or non-performing participants? If  the 
> former, that is border line absurd.
>
> Kris
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rainer Thelonius Balthasar 
> Straschill" <rs@moinlabs.de>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 3:19 PM
> Subject: AW: Announcing electro-music 2008
>
>
>>> I thought that many of you might be interested in this announcement.
>>> Bill
>>
>> Hilarious, Bill! Thanks for that good laugh:
>>
>>> Note that since this is a community event rather than a
>>> commercial event, all participants are required to purchase
>>> tickets for the event.
>

--
"However, faced with a fixed set of options, you are forced to employ
those special, mystical powers — imagination and creativity."
- Paul Nagle






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Subject: Re: Announcing electro-music 2008
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:59:18 -0600
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----- Original Message ----- 



>> You pay to play, that's just how it is.  Basically everyone there is a 
>> performer.  The concept of "audience" is unique in that way.  I played 
>> the 2005 event and it was well-worth the ticket price.  I had a great 
>> time.
>
> Yea, unless a festival can secure enough corporate sponsors, you are 
> forced to run it this way.

Why? I am only in my third year. Even for my second year, when I did not get 
a grant, I did not have to ask performers to pay a fee to play. And I had no 
sponsorship dollars. All my event costs were covered with door ticket sales 
(no more than 100 people) and volunteers (sound, door, flyer distribution, 
etc). It was a shoestring budget, but if one keeps operating costs down is 
is not extravagant, there is no reason why door sales can't cover all event 
costs and prevent performers from paying to play. Now, if someone is forced 
to pay $1800 a day for a venue, that is a different story. There are venues 
here in Boise that charge that much, but with some searching I found an 
outstanding venue that charged only $150 a day - an El Korah Shine Center - 
HUGE ball room with 20" by 15" stage, lights, holds 300 people, chairs, 
tables, etc.

I'm just appalled of the idea that a festival would charge performers to 
play. What do they get in return?

Kris

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 03:01:18 2008
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Subject: Re: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:01:14 -0600
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And anyone who uses a delay that echos their signal one or more times...that 
narrows the list down to about 50 million. :)

Kris

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 03:04:21 2008
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Subject: Re: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
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Well Mr. Fripp of course.

t

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 03:49:44 2008
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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 05:17:49 +0200
From: Dirk Wilbert <dwilbert@rhein-zeitung.de>
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Hello Scott, yes - I'm a user of the RC50 (and love it). There are a lot 
of functions which I first thought to be nonsense - but then appeared to 
be really useful (all that internal sync stuff).
Dirk


Scott Kellogg schrieb:
> Any users on this list (of the RC-50 tee hee).  I'm concentrating on 
> what it /can/ do rather than /cannot/.
>
> Scott
> -- 
> "However, faced with a fixed set of options, you are forced to employ 
> those special, mystical powers — imagination and creativity."
> - Paul Nagle
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 03:50:20 2008
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------=_Part_15510_4952782.1208836219347
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Hi there Scott,
I have an RC-50.  It is no longer my primary looper, because my style has
changed somewhat. But I do employ it. Are you considering getting one, or
are you looking for ideas of how to use an RC-50 you already have?

Its strong points points:

excellent audio quality
stereo
submixer in
secondary outputs
massive loop capacity
ability to save/import/export via usb
change audio tempo on the fly (albeit with aliasing)
3 sync'd OR unsync'd stereo parallel loops
reverse
good build quality
Being mass produced, it can be easily replaced or repaired

Although it has no feedback control, there is a fellow around the list here
(a European fellow) who figured out an interesting workaround, which you ca=
n
find with an archive search.

If you haven't bought one yet, please research the glitch. i know you want
to accentuate the positive, but the "glitch" and the sorry "fix" that Rolan=
d
botched is what drove me to use it far less. Depending on your style, the
glitch could be no big deal, or it could be a deal breaker. But please
please please, for the love of all that is good and holy, PLEASE, try befor=
e
you buy.

Hope that helps some,
Patrick


On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Scott Kellogg <bassnut@gmail.com> wrote:

> Any users on this list (of the RC-50 tee hee).  I'm concentrating on what
> it /can/ do rather than /cannot/.
>
> Scott
> --
> "However, faced with a fixed set of options, you are forced to employ
> those special, mystical powers =97 imagination and creativity."
> - Paul Nagle
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Hi there Scott,<br>I have an RC-50.&nbsp; It is no longer my primary looper=
, because my style has changed somewhat. But I do employ it. Are you consid=
ering getting one, or are you looking for ideas of how to use an RC-50 you =
already have?<br>
<br>Its strong points points:<br><br>excellent audio quality<br>stereo<br>s=
ubmixer in<br>secondary outputs<br>massive loop capacity<br>ability to save=
/import/export via usb<br>change audio tempo on the fly (albeit with aliasi=
ng)<br>
3 sync&#39;d OR unsync&#39;d stereo parallel loops<br>reverse<br>good build=
 quality<br>Being mass produced, it can be easily replaced or repaired<br><=
br>Although it has no feedback control, there is a fellow around the list h=
ere (a European fellow) who figured out an interesting workaround, which yo=
u can find with an archive search.<br>
<br>If you haven&#39;t bought one yet, please research the glitch. i know y=
ou want to accentuate the positive, but the &quot;glitch&quot; and the sorr=
y &quot;fix&quot; that Roland botched is what drove me to use it far less. =
Depending on your style, the glitch could be no big deal, or it could be a =
deal breaker. But please please please, for the love of all that is good an=
d holy, PLEASE, try before you buy.<br>
<br>Hope that helps some,<br>Patrick<br><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 9:27 PM, Scott Kellogg &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bassnu=
t@gmail.com">bassnut@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt=
 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Any users on this list (of the RC-50 tee hee). &nbsp;I&#39;m concentrating =
on what it /can/ do rather than /cannot/.<br>
<br>
Scott<br><font color=3D"#888888">
--<br>
&quot;However, faced with a fixed set of options, you are forced to employ =
those special, mystical powers =97 imagination and creativity.&quot;<br>
- Paul Nagle<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font></blockquote></div><br>

------=_Part_15510_4952782.1208836219347--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 04:04:50 2008
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For you New Yorkers, at the Jazz Standard this week is a whole lot of 
Nels Cline, doing plenty of looping I'm sure, and other loopy folks, as 
a mini-festival for the Cryptogramophone label. Just got their email and 
thought I'd pass it on.

In addition to a whole lot of Nels, Stomu Takeishi is the very 
experimentally-minded (and loopy) bass player from Cuong Vu's trio, he's 
playing with Myra Melford (great keyboardist, especially harmonium) on 
Saturday. Scott Amendola integrates lots of loops and electronics into 
his drumkit (he's nearly my favorite living drummer) and he's onstage 
nearly every night. Finally, Nels' twin brother Alex is an amazing 
percussionist, and they're doing a duo the first evening.

Wednesday, April 23rd

    * 7:30 PM - The Jeff Gauthier Goatette - Jeff Gauthier vln, Nels
      Cline - gtr, David Witham - kbds, Joel Hamilton - bass, Alex Cline
      - drms
    * 9:30 PM - Nels Cline/Alex Cline Duo - Nels Cline - guitars, Alex
      Cline - drums & perc

Thursday, April 24th

    * 7:30 & 9:30 PM - The Nels Cline Singers - Nels Cline - guitars,
      Devin Hoff - bs, Scott Amendola - drms, sounds

Friday April 25th

    * 7:30 PM - Scott Amendola Band - Jenny Scheinman - vln, Nels Cline
      - gtr, Charlie Hunter - gtr/bs, Scott Amendola - drms, sounds
    * 9:30 & 11:30 PM - The Nels Cline Singers - Nels Cline - guitars,
      Devin Hoff - bs, Scott Amendola - drms, sounds

Saturday April 26th

    * 7:30 PM - The Myra Melford /Ben Goldberg Quartet - Myra Melford -
      pno, Ben Goldberg - clar, Stomu Takeishi - bass, Scott Amendola -
      drums
    * 9:30 & 11:30 PM - The Bennie Maupin Ensemble - Bennie Maupin -
      woodwinds, Michal Tokaj - pno, Darek Oles - bs, Michael Stephans -
      drms, Munyungo Jackson - perc.

somebody go and report...please.

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 04:39:57 2008
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=20
"unless a festival can secure enough corporate sponsors, you are=20
> forced to run it this way"
  This is true for fringe art festivals that appeal to other  weirdo artist=
s,but there's a really thriving festival scene.
 The jamband festival scene is raging. In that world if you play a grooving=
 head with enough melody to be catchy you can take it literally anywhere yo=
u want,and the audience will listen. In fact if you don't take chances and =
expolre you won';t be popular in that world. But you have to give 'em a cle=
ar entrance and exit.















"A human being is a part of a whole, called by us _universe_, a part
limited in time and space.  He experiences himself, his thoughts and
feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical
delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for
us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few
persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this
prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living
creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."    Einstein







_________________________________________________________________
Pack up or back up=96use SkyDrive to transfer files or keep extra copies. L=
earn how.
http://www.windowslive.com/skydrive/overview.html?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_Refre=
sh_skydrive_packup_042008=

--_c193310e-d1c3-4205-87d7-22209162454b_
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<html>
<head>
<style>
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma
}
</style>
</head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'>
&nbsp;<br><pre>"unless a festival can secure enough corporate sponsors, you=
 are <br>&gt; forced to run it this way"<br>  This is true for fringe art f=
estivals that appeal to other  weirdo artists,but there's a really thriving=
 festival scene.<br> The jamband festival scene is raging. In that world if=
 you play a grooving head with enough melody to be catchy you can take it l=
iterally anywhere you want,and the audience will listen. In fact if you don=
't take chances and expolre you won';t be popular in that world. But you ha=
ve to give 'em a clear entrance and exit.<br></pre><br><span class=3D"body"=
></span><span class=3D"EC_EC_EC_EC_EC_bodybold"></span><br><br><br><br><br>=
<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><ul><li>"A human being is a part of a w=
hole, called by us _universe_, a part
limited in time and space.  He experiences himself, his thoughts and
feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical
delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for
us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few
persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this
prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living
creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Einstei=
n<br></li></ul><font face=3D"New York,Times New Roman"><br></font><br><br><=
a href=3D"http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/l/louisarmst163740.html"=
 target=3D"_blank"></a><br><br><blockquote><hr><br></blockquote><br /><hr /=
>Pack up or back up=96use SkyDrive to transfer files or keep extra copies. =
<a href=3D'http://www.windowslive.com/skydrive/overview.html?ocid=3DTXT_TAG=
LM_WL_Refresh_skydrive_packup_042008' target=3D'_new'>Learn how.</a></body>
</html>=

--_c193310e-d1c3-4205-87d7-22209162454b_--

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That's it! From now on, I'm burning sage at my festival and hiring a few 
dozen half naked neo-hippie teenagers reeking with petruli oil, 2 week old 
sweat, and reefer smoke, to haphazardly prance around the back of the venue. 
:)   Oh yeah, and they all have to drive their parents' Beamers to the show. 
I can see my ticket sales quadrupling already...KaChing!

Kris


----- Original Message ----- 


"unless a festival can secure enough corporate sponsors, you are > forced to 
run it this way"  This is true for fringe art festivals that appeal to other 
weirdo artists,but there's a really thriving festival scene. The jamband 
festival scene is raging. In that world if you play a grooving head with 
enough melody to be catchy you can take it literally anywhere you want,and 
the audience will listen. In fact if you don't take chances and expolre you 
won';t be popular in that world. But you have to give 'em a clear entrance 
and exit.
















"A human being is a part of a whole, called by us _universe_, a part limited 
in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as 
something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his 
consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to 
our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our 
task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of 
compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its 
beauty."    Einstein














Pack up or back up–use SkyDrive to transfer files or keep extra copies. 
Learn how. 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 06:23:33 2008
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From: Teddy Kumpel <teddybut@mac.com>
Subject: Re: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 02:23:29 -0400
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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JACO PASTORIUS

ADRIAN BELEW

JOY ASKEW


On Apr 21, 2008, at 6:41 PM, Rick Walker wrote:

> To help Darren with his thesis project on live looping I thought it  
> might be really good
> to come up with a current list of well known live looping artists.
>
> People not mentioned in his initial list would have to include
>
> IMOGEN HEAP  (Frou Frou and solo career)
>
> JON BRION
>                (film soundtracks, multi instrumentalist and the
>                famous producer of Fiona Apple who has a weekly live  
> looping gig in Los Angeles)
>
> KID BEYOND)(Andrew Chaikin's beatboxing all acapella live looping  
> show is really attracting attention)
>
> ROB MASSIE (of 808 State just used live looping extensively in his  
> SF show)
>
> ARILD ANDERSEN  (famous Norwegian jazz bassist,  part of the ECM  
> records stable of solo and collaborative artists)
>
> EDDIE VEDDER (front man for Pearl Jam used live looping in his solo  
> concert just last week in Santa Cruz,
>                        parenthetically,  his opening act also used  
> live looping and, point of civic pride here,  he wrote a brand
>                        new composition about how much he loves  
> Santa Cruz and performed it the evening that he wrote it)
>
> MATMOS (the producers who work with BJORK---I"m not sure here, but  
> it sure seemed like they were looping
>                  live in concert with her when I saw her recently)
>
> BILL FRISSEL  (possibly the most important American jazz artist today)
>
> DAVID TORN   (arguably the first high profile live looper and one  
> who's been doing digital looping as long as anyone)
>
> HENRY KAISER  (one of the most influential and famous experimental  
> musicians in the US today.   He was literally
>                   doing live looping in the digital realm earlier  
> than anyone.  I forgot the date that he told me but he
>                   was doing this back in the 70's with the earliest  
> digital delays)
>
> ROBERT FRIPP   (started much of this with his double REVOX tape  
> machine live loops called Frippertronics)
>
> in our own community
>
> MATTHIAS GROB (inventor of the Pardis delay which became the Gibson  
> Echoplex EDP with loop IV)
> KIM FLINT (American guitarist and founder of LOOPERS DELIGHT,  the  
> mecca live looping website on the planet)
> ANDRE LAFOSSE (American guitar)
> CLAUDE VOIT  (Swiss guitar)
> ANDY BUTLER (British guitar)
> BILL WALKER  (American guitarist)
> PER BOYSEN (Swedish multi instrumentalist-popularizer of live  
> looping in his country-founder of the 1st and 2nd SWEDISH LIVE  
> LOOPING FESTIVALs)
> SUNAO INAMI (Japanese keyboardist/composer-popularizer of live  
> looping in his country- founder for the LOOPERS DELIGHT J live  
> looping festivals)
> ERDEM HELVACIOGLU (Turkish composer/guitarist)
> BERNHARD WAGNER (Swiss guitarist - popularizer of live looping in  
> his country and founder of the 1st INTERNATIONAL LOOP FESTIVAL ZURICH)
> ANDREW OSTLER  (British electronic composer - popularizer of live  
> looping in his country-founder of the CAMBRIDGE LIVE LOOPING  
> FESTIVAL series)
> MASSIMO LIVERANI (ITALIAN guitarist - popularizer of live looping  
> in his country-founder of the 1st FIRENZE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL)
> MICHAEL PETERS (German experimental artist/guitarist - popularizer  
> of live looping in his country)
> LEANDER REININGHAUS (German Guitarist - popularizer of live looping  
> in his country-founder of the BERLIN LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)
> MICHAEL KLOBUCHAR (American guitarist and founder of the Chain Tape  
> Collective which was influential to the community
>                    from the early days of Loopers Delight until the  
> present)
> HANS LINDAUER (American electronic music/bassist- who started the  
> influential LOOPSTOCKHAUSEN festivals)
> RAINER STRASCHILL (German guitarist - popularizer of the KKYBERJAM  
> live looping movement)
> KRISPEN HARTUNG  (American avant garde guitarist - popularizer of  
> the live looping and founder of the BOISE EXPERIMENTAL
>                                  MUSIC FESTIVAL)
> and all the loopers who produced small one off live looping  
> festivals in their respective countries:
>
> Okay,  my mind hurts and I know I've missed lots of people (please  
> don't take offense if I"ve made glaring errors,  I really do  
> appreciate you.
>
> WHO ELSE?       FAMOUS and also in our LOOPERS DELIGHT community?
>
>
>
> okay,  I know I"m missing people but I wondered if everyone would  
> pitch in and give credit where credit is due

--
PS.
--
EPK

my band, Mister Shifty, is doing some shows at Nightingale Lounge...

Featuring
Teddy K - gtr, vocals, toy keyboard, kazoo and cb mic
Matt Miller on drums
? on bass

every Thursday in April
all shows 8pm, 2 long sets

http://nightingalelounge.com

212.473.9398

213 Second Avenue
(NW Corner of East 13th St. & 2nd Ave.)
NYC 10003
Trains: L,N,Q,R,W,4,5,6 to Union Square/ 14th Street, L to 1st Avenue

more gigs:
April 25th at Banjo jim's, nyc 8pm (opening for Lenny Kaye)
April 26th at Ace of Clubs, nyc 11pm (chris crosby's birthday party)
--
new videos of my hippy dippy dance trio weekly
mister shifty
--
Teddybut's song "My Country" is featured on Neil Young's "LIVING   
WITH WAR TODAY" site
--
visit teddybut on my space
--
new teddybut cd "The Man" is available online at
cd baby
--
Teddybut- "The Man" is part of the rotation at
Harris Radio
--
Interviews
--
http://www.teddybut.com
Kumpelstiltskin Music, Inc.
Brooklyn, NY

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long  
plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die  
like dogs. There's also a negative side."
   --Hunter S. Thompson




From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 06:24:38 2008
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From: Teddy Kumpel <teddybut@mac.com>
Subject: Re: RC-50
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 02:24:25 -0400
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  I use the RC-50 extensively....

Teddy


On Apr 21, 2008, at 9:27 PM, Scott Kellogg wrote:

> Any users on this list (of the RC-50 tee hee).  I'm concentrating =20
> on what it /can/ do rather than /cannot/.
>
> Scott
> --
> "However, faced with a fixed set of options, you are forced to =20
> employ those special, mystical powers =97 imagination and creativity."
> - Paul Nagle



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Subject: RE: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 08:29:30 +0200
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although he doesn't loop nowadays anymore, Terry Riley needs to be mentioned
here because he was the first livelooper of all
 
-Michael

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<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D031242806-22042008>although he doesn't loop nowadays anymore, =
Terry Riley=20
needs to be mentioned here because he was the first livelooper of=20
all</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D031242806-22042008></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D031242806-22042008>-Michael</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 06:53:19 2008
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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:53:09 +0900
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From: Mech <mech@m3ch.net>
Subject: Re: RC-50 (and the "glitch" revisited...)
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At 11:50 PM -0400 4/21/08, Patrick Suler wrote:
>
>If you haven't bought one yet, please research the glitch. i know 
>you want to accentuate the positive, but the "glitch" and the sorry 
>"fix" that Roland botched is what drove me to use it far less. 
>Depending on your style, the glitch could be no big deal, or it 
>could be a deal breaker. But please please please, for the love of 
>all that is good and holy, PLEASE, try before you buy.

I was just thinking: It's been a couple of months since the RC-50 
users here found a "workaround" for the glitch (apply the latest 
software update from Roland, *then* turn the guide 
track/sync/metronome off entirely, IIRC).

What is the current consensus from those who have now tried this? 
Does this finally solve the whole problem with the glitch, or is it 
still there regardless?

In the meantime, I've given several people the exact same warnings as 
above.  I want to make certain, however, that I'm disseminating the 
correct information when others ask for advice, not outdated findings.

Tanx!

	--m.
-- 
_____
"bye-bye empire; empire, bye-bye"

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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:57:51 +0900
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From: Mech <mech@m3ch.net>
Subject: Re: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
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Has anybody mentioned Thomas Dolby yet?

	--m


At 3:41 PM -0700 4/21/08, Rick Walker wrote:
>To help Darren with his thesis project on live looping I thought it 
>might be really good
>to come up with a current list of well known live looping artists.
>
>People not mentioned in his initial list would have to include
>
>IMOGEN HEAP  (Frou Frou and solo career)
>
>JON BRION
>                (film soundtracks, multi instrumentalist and the
>                famous producer of Fiona Apple who has a weekly live 
>looping gig in Los Angeles)
>
>KID BEYOND)(Andrew Chaikin's beatboxing all acapella live looping 
>show is really attracting attention)
>
>ROB MASSIE (of 808 State just used live looping extensively in his SF show)
>
>ARILD ANDERSEN  (famous Norwegian jazz bassist,  part of the ECM 
>records stable of solo and collaborative artists)
>
>EDDIE VEDDER (front man for Pearl Jam used live looping in his solo 
>concert just last week in Santa Cruz,
>                        parenthetically,  his opening act also used 
>live looping and, point of civic pride here,  he wrote a brand
>                        new composition about how much he loves Santa 
>Cruz and performed it the evening that he wrote it)
>
>MATMOS (the producers who work with BJORK---I"m not sure here, but 
>it sure seemed like they were looping
>                  live in concert with her when I saw her recently)
>
>BILL FRISSEL  (possibly the most important American jazz artist today)
>
>DAVID TORN   (arguably the first high profile live looper and one 
>who's been doing digital looping as long as anyone)
>
>HENRY KAISER  (one of the most influential and famous experimental 
>musicians in the US today.   He was literally
>                   doing live looping in the digital realm earlier 
>than anyone.  I forgot the date that he told me but he
>                   was doing this back in the 70's with the earliest 
>digital delays)
>
>ROBERT FRIPP   (started much of this with his double REVOX tape 
>machine live loops called Frippertronics)
>
>in our own community
>
>MATTHIAS GROB (inventor of the Pardis delay which became the Gibson 
>Echoplex EDP with loop IV)
>KIM FLINT (American guitarist and founder of LOOPERS DELIGHT,  the 
>mecca live looping website on the planet)
>ANDRE LAFOSSE (American guitar)
>CLAUDE VOIT  (Swiss guitar)
>ANDY BUTLER (British guitar)
>BILL WALKER  (American guitarist)
>PER BOYSEN (Swedish multi instrumentalist-popularizer of live 
>looping in his country-founder of the 1st and 2nd SWEDISH LIVE 
>LOOPING FESTIVALs)
>SUNAO INAMI (Japanese keyboardist/composer-popularizer of live 
>looping in his country- founder for the LOOPERS DELIGHT J live 
>looping festivals)
>ERDEM HELVACIOGLU (Turkish composer/guitarist)
>BERNHARD WAGNER (Swiss guitarist - popularizer of live looping in 
>his country and founder of the 1st INTERNATIONAL LOOP FESTIVAL 
>ZURICH)
>ANDREW OSTLER  (British electronic composer - popularizer of live 
>looping in his country-founder of the CAMBRIDGE LIVE LOOPING 
>FESTIVAL series)
>MASSIMO LIVERANI (ITALIAN guitarist - popularizer of live looping in 
>his country-founder of the 1st FIRENZE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL)
>MICHAEL PETERS (German experimental artist/guitarist - popularizer 
>of live looping in his country)
>LEANDER REININGHAUS (German Guitarist - popularizer of live looping 
>in his country-founder of the BERLIN LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)
>MICHAEL KLOBUCHAR (American guitarist and founder of the Chain Tape 
>Collective which was influential to the community
>                    from the early days of Loopers Delight until the present)
>HANS LINDAUER (American electronic music/bassist- who started the 
>influential LOOPSTOCKHAUSEN festivals)
>RAINER STRASCHILL (German guitarist - popularizer of the KKYBERJAM 
>live looping movement)
>KRISPEN HARTUNG  (American avant garde guitarist - popularizer of 
>the live looping and founder of the BOISE EXPERIMENTAL
>                                  MUSIC FESTIVAL)
>and all the loopers who produced small one off live looping 
>festivals in their respective countries:
>
>Okay,  my mind hurts and I know I've missed lots of people (please 
>don't take offense if I"ve made glaring errors,  I really do 
>appreciate you.
>
>WHO ELSE?       FAMOUS and also in our LOOPERS DELIGHT community?
>
>
>
>okay,  I know I"m missing people but I wondered if everyone would 
>pitch in and give credit where credit is due

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 07:03:43 2008
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Subject: Re: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
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add an < l > to the end of the link to make it work

On Apr 22, 2008, at 4:05 AM, Richard Sales wrote:

> I don't know if you got this guy.  In Wired recently:
>
> http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/04/video-david-for.htm
>
> richard sales
> glassWing farm and studio
> vancouver island, b.c.
> www.glassWing.com     www.richardsales.com
> www.hayleysales.com     www.joannesales.com
> www.blueberryfieldsfarm.com
> www.broombusters.org
>
>
> On 21-Apr-08, at 3:41 PM, Rick Walker wrote:
>
>> To help Darren with his thesis project on live looping I thought it  
>> might be really good
>> to come up with a current list of well known live looping artists.
>>
>> People not mentioned in his initial list would have to include
>>
>> IMOGEN HEAP  (Frou Frou and solo career)
>>
>> JON BRION
>>                (film soundtracks, multi instrumentalist and the
>>                famous producer of Fiona Apple who has a weekly live  
>> looping gig in Los Angeles)
>>
>> KID BEYOND)(Andrew Chaikin's beatboxing all acapella live looping  
>> show is really attracting attention)
>>
>> ROB MASSIE (of 808 State just used live looping extensively in his  
>> SF show)
>>
>> ARILD ANDERSEN  (famous Norwegian jazz bassist,  part of the ECM  
>> records stable of solo and collaborative artists)
>>
>> EDDIE VEDDER (front man for Pearl Jam used live looping in his solo  
>> concert just last week in Santa Cruz,
>>                        parenthetically,  his opening act also used  
>> live looping and, point of civic pride here,  he wrote a brand
>>                        new composition about how much he loves  
>> Santa Cruz and performed it the evening that he wrote it)
>>
>> MATMOS (the producers who work with BJORK---I"m not sure here, but  
>> it sure seemed like they were looping
>>                  live in concert with her when I saw her recently)
>>
>> BILL FRISSEL  (possibly the most important American jazz artist  
>> today)
>>
>> DAVID TORN   (arguably the first high profile live looper and one  
>> who's been doing digital looping as long as anyone)
>>
>> HENRY KAISER  (one of the most influential and famous experimental  
>> musicians in the US today.   He was literally
>>                   doing live looping in the digital realm earlier  
>> than anyone.  I forgot the date that he told me but he
>>                   was doing this back in the 70's with the earliest  
>> digital delays)
>>
>> ROBERT FRIPP   (started much of this with his double REVOX tape  
>> machine live loops called Frippertronics)
>>
>> in our own community
>>
>> MATTHIAS GROB (inventor of the Pardis delay which became the Gibson  
>> Echoplex EDP with loop IV)
>> KIM FLINT (American guitarist and founder of LOOPERS DELIGHT,  the  
>> mecca live looping website on the planet)
>> ANDRE LAFOSSE (American guitar)
>> CLAUDE VOIT  (Swiss guitar)
>> ANDY BUTLER (British guitar)
>> BILL WALKER  (American guitarist)
>> PER BOYSEN (Swedish multi instrumentalist-popularizer of live  
>> looping in his country-founder of the 1st and 2nd SWEDISH LIVE  
>> LOOPING FESTIVALs)
>> SUNAO INAMI (Japanese keyboardist/composer-popularizer of live  
>> looping in his country- founder for the LOOPERS DELIGHT J live  
>> looping festivals)
>> ERDEM HELVACIOGLU (Turkish composer/guitarist)
>> BERNHARD WAGNER (Swiss guitarist - popularizer of live looping in  
>> his country and founder of the 1st INTERNATIONAL LOOP FESTIVAL  
>> ZURICH)
>> ANDREW OSTLER  (British electronic composer - popularizer of live  
>> looping in his country-founder of the CAMBRIDGE LIVE LOOPING  
>> FESTIVAL series)
>> MASSIMO LIVERANI (ITALIAN guitarist - popularizer of live looping  
>> in his country-founder of the 1st FIRENZE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL)
>> MICHAEL PETERS (German experimental artist/guitarist - popularizer  
>> of live looping in his country)
>> LEANDER REININGHAUS (German Guitarist - popularizer of live looping  
>> in his country-founder of the BERLIN LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)
>> MICHAEL KLOBUCHAR (American guitarist and founder of the Chain Tape  
>> Collective which was influential to the community
>>                    from the early days of Loopers Delight until the  
>> present)
>> HANS LINDAUER (American electronic music/bassist- who started the  
>> influential LOOPSTOCKHAUSEN festivals)
>> RAINER STRASCHILL (German guitarist - popularizer of the KKYBERJAM  
>> live looping movement)
>> KRISPEN HARTUNG (American avant garde guitarist - popularizer of  
>> the live looping and founder of the BOISE EXPERIMENTAL
>> MUSIC FESTIVAL)
>> and all the loopers who produced small one off live looping  
>> festivals in their respective countries:
>>
>> Okay, my mind hurts and I know I've missed lots of people (please  
>> don't take offense if I"ve made glaring errors, I really do  
>> appreciate you.
>>
>> WHO ELSE? FAMOUS and also in our LOOPERS DELIGHT community?
>>
>>
>>
>> okay, I know I"m missing people but I wondered if everyone would  
>> pitch in and give credit where credit is due


--Apple-Mail-12-759870468
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	charset=US-ASCII
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">add an &lt; l > to the end of =
the link to make it work<div><br><div><div>On Apr 22, 2008, at 4:05 AM, =
Richard Sales wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite">I don't =
know if you got this guy.&nbsp;&nbsp;In Wired recently:<br><br><span =
style=3D"color: rgba(0, 0, 237, 1); "><a =
href=3D"http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/04/video-david-for.htm">http://bl=
og.wired.com/music/2008/04/video-david-for.htm</a><br></span><br><span =
style=3D"font-family: Gadget; ">richard sales<br></span><span =
style=3D"font-family: Gadget; color: rgba(114, 126, 196, 1); ">glassWing =
farm and studio</span><span style=3D"font-family: Gadget; =
"><br>vancouver island, b.c.</span><span style=3D"font-family: Gadget; =
color: rgba(194, 149, 27, 1); =
">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<br>www.glassWing.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://www.richardsales.com">www.richardsales.com</a><br>www.hayle=
ysales.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://www.joannesales.com">www.joannesales.com</a><br><a =
href=3D"http://www.blueberryfieldsfarm.com">www.blueberryfieldsfarm.com</a=
>     <br><a =
href=3D"http://www.broombusters.org">www.broombusters.org</a><br><br></spa=
n><br>On 21-Apr-08, at 3:41 PM, Rick Walker wrote:<br><br> <blockquote =
type=3D"cite">To help Darren with his thesis project on live looping I =
thought it might be really good<br>to come up with a current list of =
well known live looping artists.<br><br>People not mentioned in his =
initial list would have to include<br><br>IMOGEN HEAP&nbsp;&nbsp;(Frou =
Frou and solo career)<br><br>JON =
BRION<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(film soundtracks, multi instrumentalist and =
the<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;famous producer of Fiona Apple who has a weekly =
live looping gig in Los Angeles)<br><br>KID BEYOND)(Andrew Chaikin's =
beatboxing all acapella live looping show is really attracting =
attention)<br><br>ROB MASSIE (of 808 State just used live looping =
extensively in his SF show)<br><br>ARILD ANDERSEN&nbsp;&nbsp;(famous =
Norwegian jazz bassist,&nbsp;&nbsp;part of the ECM records stable of =
solo and collaborative artists)<br><br>EDDIE VEDDER (front man for Pearl =
Jam used live looping in his solo concert just last week in Santa =
Cruz,<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;p=
arenthetically,&nbsp;&nbsp;his opening act also used live looping and, =
point of civic pride here,&nbsp;&nbsp;he wrote a =
brand<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;n=
ew composition about how much he loves Santa Cruz and performed it the =
evening that he wrote it)<br><br>MATMOS (the producers who work with =
BJORK---I"m not sure here, but it sure seemed like they were =
looping<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;live in concert with her when I =
saw her recently)<br><br>BILL FRISSEL&nbsp;&nbsp;(possibly the most =
important American jazz artist today)<br><br>DAVID =
TORN&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(arguably the first high profile live looper and =
one who's been doing digital looping as long as anyone)<br><br>HENRY =
KAISER&nbsp;&nbsp;(one of the most influential and famous experimental =
musicians in the US today.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;He was =
literally<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;doing live looping in the =
digital realm earlier than anyone.&nbsp;&nbsp;I forgot the date that he =
told me but =
he<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;was doing this back in the 70's =
with the earliest digital delays)<br><br>ROBERT =
FRIPP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(started much of this with his double REVOX tape =
machine live loops called Frippertronics)<br><br>in our own =
community<br><br>MATTHIAS GROB (inventor of the Pardis delay which =
became the Gibson Echoplex EDP with loop IV)<br>KIM FLINT (American =
guitarist and founder of LOOPERS DELIGHT,&nbsp;&nbsp;the mecca live =
looping website on the planet)<br>ANDRE LAFOSSE (American =
guitar)<br>CLAUDE VOIT&nbsp;&nbsp;(Swiss guitar)<br>ANDY BUTLER (British =
guitar)<br>BILL WALKER&nbsp;&nbsp;(American guitarist)<br>PER BOYSEN =
(Swedish multi instrumentalist-popularizer of live looping in his =
country-founder of the 1st and 2nd SWEDISH LIVE LOOPING =
FESTIVALs)<br>SUNAO INAMI (Japanese keyboardist/composer-popularizer of =
live looping in his country- founder for the LOOPERS DELIGHT J live =
looping festivals)<br>ERDEM HELVACIOGLU (Turkish =
composer/guitarist)<br>BERNHARD WAGNER (Swiss guitarist - popularizer of =
live looping in his country and founder of the 1st INTERNATIONAL LOOP =
FESTIVAL ZURICH)<br>ANDREW OSTLER&nbsp;&nbsp;(British electronic =
composer - popularizer of live looping in his country-founder of the =
CAMBRIDGE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)<br>MASSIMO LIVERANI (ITALIAN =
guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his country-founder of the =
1st FIRENZE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL)<br>MICHAEL PETERS (German =
experimental artist/guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his =
country)<br>LEANDER REININGHAUS (German Guitarist - popularizer of live =
looping in his country-founder of the BERLIN LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL =
series)<br>MICHAEL KLOBUCHAR (American guitarist and founder of the =
Chain Tape Collective which was influential to the =
community<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;from the early days =
of Loopers Delight until the present)<br>HANS LINDAUER (American =
electronic music/bassist- who started the influential LOOPSTOCKHAUSEN =
festivals)<br>RAINER STRASCHILL (German guitarist - popularizer of the =
KKYBERJAM live looping movement)<br>KRISPEN HARTUNG  (American avant =
garde guitarist - popularizer of the live looping and founder of the =
BOISE EXPERIMENTAL<br>                                 MUSIC =
FESTIVAL)<br>and all the loopers who produced small one off live looping =
festivals in their respective countries:<br><br>Okay,  my mind hurts and =
I know I've missed lots of people (please don't take offense if I"ve =
made glaring errors,  I really do appreciate you.<br><br>WHO ELSE?       =
FAMOUS and also in our LOOPERS DELIGHT community?<br><br><br><br>okay,  =
I know I"m missing people but I wondered if everyone would pitch in and =
give credit where credit is due =
<br></blockquote></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-12-759870468--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 09:10:16 2008
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Subject: Re: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:22:26 +0200
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I would add

Robert Rich
Steve Roach
Jeff Greinke
Jeff Pearce
Markus Reuter
Thighpaulsandra (during his days with Coil)

to the list (no idea whether they are subscribed to Loopersī Delight,
though).

I am also using live looping but I guess I am not what most people would
consider "famous" ;-). But hey, Iīm a list member...

Stephen

____________________________________________________________________

"Ambition makes you look pretty ugly, kicking squealing Gucci little piggy."
(Thom Yorke/Radiohead -- "Paranoid Android")

Finally available: Stephen Parsick -- Traces of the Past Redux, reissued
with three previously unreleased bonus tracks. For more info please check
www.parsick.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rick Walker" <looppool@cruzio.com>
To: "LOOPERS DELIGHT (posting)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:41 AM
Subject: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS


> To help Darren with his thesis project on live looping I thought it might
be
> really good
> to come up with a current list of well known live looping artists.
>
> People not mentioned in his initial list would have to include
>
> IMOGEN HEAP  (Frou Frou and solo career)
>
> JON BRION
>                 (film soundtracks, multi instrumentalist and the
>                 famous producer of Fiona Apple who has a weekly live
looping
> gig in Los Angeles)
>
> KID BEYOND)(Andrew Chaikin's beatboxing all acapella live looping show is
> really attracting attention)
>
> ROB MASSIE (of 808 State just used live looping extensively in his SF
show)
>
> ARILD ANDERSEN  (famous Norwegian jazz bassist,  part of the ECM records
> stable of solo and collaborative artists)
>
> EDDIE VEDDER (front man for Pearl Jam used live looping in his solo
concert
> just last week in Santa Cruz,
>                         parenthetically,  his opening act also used live
> looping and, point of civic pride here,  he wrote a brand
>                         new composition about how much he loves Santa Cruz
> and performed it the evening that he wrote it)
>
> MATMOS (the producers who work with BJORK---I"m not sure here, but it sure
> seemed like they were looping
>                   live in concert with her when I saw her recently)
>
> BILL FRISSEL  (possibly the most important American jazz artist today)
>
> DAVID TORN   (arguably the first high profile live looper and one who's
been
> doing digital looping as long as anyone)
>
> HENRY KAISER  (one of the most influential and famous experimental
musicians
> in the US today.   He was literally
>                    doing live looping in the digital realm earlier than
> anyone.  I forgot the date that he told me but he
>                    was doing this back in the 70's with the earliest
digital
> delays)
>
> ROBERT FRIPP   (started much of this with his double REVOX tape machine
live
> loops called Frippertronics)
>
> in our own community
>
> MATTHIAS GROB (inventor of the Pardis delay which became the Gibson
Echoplex
> EDP with loop IV)
> KIM FLINT (American guitarist and founder of LOOPERS DELIGHT,  the mecca
> live looping website on the planet)
> ANDRE LAFOSSE (American guitar)
> CLAUDE VOIT  (Swiss guitar)
> ANDY BUTLER (British guitar)
> BILL WALKER  (American guitarist)
> PER BOYSEN (Swedish multi instrumentalist-popularizer of live looping in
his
> country-founder of the 1st and 2nd SWEDISH LIVE LOOPING FESTIVALs)
> SUNAO INAMI (Japanese keyboardist/composer-popularizer of live looping in
> his country- founder for the LOOPERS DELIGHT J live looping festivals)
> ERDEM HELVACIOGLU (Turkish composer/guitarist)
> BERNHARD WAGNER (Swiss guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his
> country and founder of the 1st INTERNATIONAL LOOP FESTIVAL ZURICH)
> ANDREW OSTLER  (British electronic composer - popularizer of live looping
in
> his country-founder of the CAMBRIDGE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)
> MASSIMO LIVERANI (ITALIAN guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his
> country-founder of the 1st FIRENZE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL)
> MICHAEL PETERS (German experimental artist/guitarist - popularizer of live
> looping in his country)
> LEANDER REININGHAUS (German Guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his
> country-founder of the BERLIN LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)
> MICHAEL KLOBUCHAR (American guitarist and founder of the Chain Tape
> Collective which was influential to the community
>                     from the early days of Loopers Delight until the
> present)
> HANS LINDAUER (American electronic music/bassist- who started the
> influential LOOPSTOCKHAUSEN festivals)
> RAINER STRASCHILL (German guitarist - popularizer of the KKYBERJAM live
> looping movement)
> KRISPEN HARTUNG  (American avant garde guitarist - popularizer of the live
> looping and founder of the BOISE EXPERIMENTAL
>                                   MUSIC FESTIVAL)
> and all the loopers who produced small one off live looping festivals in
> their respective countries:
>
> Okay,  my mind hurts and I know I've missed lots of people (please don't
> take offense if I"ve made glaring errors,  I really do appreciate you.
>
> WHO ELSE?       FAMOUS and also in our LOOPERS DELIGHT community?
>
>
>
> okay,  I know I"m missing people but I wondered if everyone would pitch in
> and give credit where credit is due

From admin@online-paypal.department.com  Tue Apr 22 09:44:24 2008
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<title>A message from Abbey.</title>
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<TD><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"
size=2>&nbsp;April&nbsp;2008,<BR><BR><b>You have 1 new Message.</b><BR>
<b>
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<br>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 10:12:13 2008
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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 06:12:11 -0400
From: "Dennis Moser" <sinsofmachaut@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: The Eye is as Quick as The Hand
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Hmmm ...okay,. here goes:

Not to take ANYTHING away from David Ford's talent (catchy,
intelligent, I like it), but ... the video is misleading.

Watch the video VERY closely and follow the sequences that he lays
down. At no time is there an evident "controller" or "trigger" to
switch when he goes from the "layers" to singing the verses of the
song ... what gives?

I can understand having set some kind of threshold trigger for
recording the parts (the kitchen percussion, etc., the Jamman had that
a long time back and I know other loopers have the capability, too)
but there are no "actions" that he makes that would indicate that he
is switching "on/off" for when he sings the verses. The first of these
is at 1:41 into the video, right after laying down the first 3
percussion tracks and the harmonies. At first I thought when he turned
back to the counter, he was picking up a switch of some kind, but
after watching closely, you can see that it is a coffee cup which he
carries with him down the hall and sets on the floor.

Am I missing something here?

Dennis "Maybe I need more caffeine" Moser


On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 10:05 PM, Richard Sales <richard@glasswing.com> wrote:
> I don't know if you got this guy.  In Wired recently:
>
>  http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/04/video-david-for.html
>
>  richard sales
>  glassWing farm and studio
>  vancouver island, b.c.
>  www.glassWing.com     www.richardsales.com
>  www.hayleysales.com     www.joannesales.com
>  www.blueberryfieldsfarm.com
>  www.broombusters.org
>
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 11:16:53 2008
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C8A46A.5AE0854A
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 >> Manufacturer's page here: http://www.whitevoid.com/application.
Click on open -> interfaces -> midi parasite <<
=20
most annoying website I've seen in ages.... think I'll stick to my
peavey midibase! :-)
=20
d.



CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE

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systems / data.

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Inc. and Viacom Networks Europe Inc.  Address for service in Great Britain=20
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3314" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D350571511-22042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff>&nbsp;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN>Manufacturer's page here:=
 <A=20
href=3D"http://www.whitevoid.com/application">http://www.whitevoid.com/appl=
ication</A>.&nbsp;=20
Click on open -&gt; interfaces -&gt; midi parasite<SPAN=20
class=3D350571511-22042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medium"=20
color=3D#0000ff>&nbsp;&lt;&lt;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D350571511-22042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D350571511-22042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff>most annoying website I've seen in ages.... think I'll stic=
k to my=20
peavey midibase! :-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D350571511-22042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D350571511-22042008><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medi=
um"=20
color=3D#0000ff>d.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><pre>


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amendment. If you communicate with us by e-mail, you acknowledge and=20
assume these risks, and you agree to take appropriate measures to minimise=20
these risks when e-mailing us.=20

MTV Networks International, MTV Networks UK &amp; Ireland, Greenhouse,=20
Nickelodeon Viacom Consumer Products, VBSi, Viacom Brand Solutions=20
International and Comedy Central are all trading names of MTV Networks=20
Europe.  MTV Networks Europe is a partnership between MTV Networks Europe=20
Inc. and Viacom Networks Europe Inc.  Address for service in Great Britain=20
is UK House, 180 Oxford Street, London W1D 1DS, UK.
</pre></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Jeff Duke" <echohead@embarqmail.com>
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References: <dec8f8e60804220312p769bd536xe9a0bdd3ab21fe6f@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: The Eye is as Quick as The Hand
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Maybe someone off camera is  pushing the buttons or else its only a "fake" 
representation of what he is doing for the video?

Jeff

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dennis Moser" <sinsofmachaut@gmail.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 5:12 AM
Subject: The Eye is as Quick as The Hand


> Hmmm ...okay,. here goes:
>
> Not to take ANYTHING away from David Ford's talent (catchy,
> intelligent, I like it), but ... the video is misleading.
>
> Watch the video VERY closely and follow the sequences that he lays
> down. At no time is there an evident "controller" or "trigger" to
> switch when he goes from the "layers" to singing the verses of the
> song ... what gives?
>
> I can understand having set some kind of threshold trigger for
> recording the parts (the kitchen percussion, etc., the Jamman had that
> a long time back and I know other loopers have the capability, too)
> but there are no "actions" that he makes that would indicate that he
> is switching "on/off" for when he sings the verses. The first of these
> is at 1:41 into the video, right after laying down the first 3
> percussion tracks and the harmonies. At first I thought when he turned
> back to the counter, he was picking up a switch of some kind, but
> after watching closely, you can see that it is a coffee cup which he
> carries with him down the hall and sets on the floor.
>
> Am I missing something here?
>
> Dennis "Maybe I need more caffeine" Moser
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 10:05 PM, Richard Sales <richard@glasswing.com> 
> wrote:
>> I don't know if you got this guy.  In Wired recently:
>>
>>  http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/04/video-david-for.html
>>
>>  richard sales
>>  glassWing farm and studio
>>  vancouver island, b.c.
>>  www.glassWing.com     www.richardsales.com
>>  www.hayleysales.com     www.joannesales.com
>>  www.blueberryfieldsfarm.com
>>  www.broombusters.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1390 - Release Date: 4/21/2008 
> 4:23 PM
>
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 11:35:55 2008
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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:35:53 +0200
From: "Raul Bonell" <raul.bonell@gmail.com>
To: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: remixers needed
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http://www.realworldremixed.com/

-- 
The Playing Orchestra: http://www.telefonica.net/web2/tpo
Chain Tape Collective: http://www.ct-collective.com
TPO at myspace: http://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra
TPO at Jamendo: http://www.jamendo.com

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<br><a href="http://www.realworldremixed.com/">http://www.realworldremixed.com/</a><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>The Playing Orchestra: <a href="http://www.telefonica.net/web2/tpo">http://www.telefonica.net/web2/tpo</a><br>Chain Tape Collective: <a href="http://www.ct-collective.com">http://www.ct-collective.com</a><br>
TPO at myspace: <a href="http://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra">http://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra</a><br>TPO at Jamendo: <a href="http://www.jamendo.com">http://www.jamendo.com</a>

------=_Part_7985_10489357.1208864153762--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 11:49:21 2008
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From: "Jay Bell" <jay.bell@ntlworld.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <dec8f8e60804220312p769bd536xe9a0bdd3ab21fe6f@mail.gmail.com> <000701c8a473$565a9370$0202a8c0@YOUR08D5303051>
Subject: Re: The Eye is as Quick as The Hand
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A lurker speaks...

I just assumed that it was MIDI sequenced.. does that make it fake?

Reminded me very much of this by Imogen Heap

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSIbfzK2spg



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Duke" <echohead@embarqmail.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: The Eye is as Quick as The Hand


> Maybe someone off camera is  pushing the buttons or else its only a "fake" 
> representation of what he is doing for the video?
>
> Jeff
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dennis Moser" <sinsofmachaut@gmail.com>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 5:12 AM
> Subject: The Eye is as Quick as The Hand
>
>
>> Hmmm ...okay,. here goes:
>>
>> Not to take ANYTHING away from David Ford's talent (catchy,
>> intelligent, I like it), but ... the video is misleading.
>>
>> Watch the video VERY closely and follow the sequences that he lays
>> down. At no time is there an evident "controller" or "trigger" to
>> switch when he goes from the "layers" to singing the verses of the
>> song ... what gives?
>>
>> I can understand having set some kind of threshold trigger for
>> recording the parts (the kitchen percussion, etc., the Jamman had that
>> a long time back and I know other loopers have the capability, too)
>> but there are no "actions" that he makes that would indicate that he
>> is switching "on/off" for when he sings the verses. The first of these
>> is at 1:41 into the video, right after laying down the first 3
>> percussion tracks and the harmonies. At first I thought when he turned
>> back to the counter, he was picking up a switch of some kind, but
>> after watching closely, you can see that it is a coffee cup which he
>> carries with him down the hall and sets on the floor.
>>
>> Am I missing something here?
>>
>> Dennis "Maybe I need more caffeine" Moser
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 10:05 PM, Richard Sales <richard@glasswing.com> 
>> wrote:
>>> I don't know if you got this guy.  In Wired recently:
>>>
>>>  http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/04/video-david-for.html
>>>
>>>  richard sales
>>>  glassWing farm and studio
>>>  vancouver island, b.c.
>>>  www.glassWing.com     www.richardsales.com
>>>  www.hayleysales.com     www.joannesales.com
>>>  www.blueberryfieldsfarm.com
>>>  www.broombusters.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG.
>> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1390 - Release Date: 
>> 4/21/2008 4:23 PM
>>
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1390 - Release 
> Date: 4/21/2008 4:23 PM
>
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 11:50:08 2008
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Jeff Duke wrote:
> Maybe someone off camera is  pushing the buttons or else its only a 
> "fake" representation of what he is doing for the video?

admire it for being a brilliant fake ;-)

..try putting a vocal mic on a work surface then recording perfectly
balanced kitchen percussion......no way

some of the later overdubs sound "bad" enough to be real tho'.





andy butler


>> <richard@glasswing.com> wrote:
>>> I don't know if you got this guy.  In Wired recently:
>>>
>>>  http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/04/video-david-for.html
>>>

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


Chuck Silva
http://www.myspace.com/chucksilva  


----- Original Message ----
From: Ricky Graham <rock.guitar.guru@btinternet.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 8:07:18 AM
Subject: Re: SUBMISSIONS   Y2K8 INTERNATIONAL LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL

Hi Rick,

Would there be a possibility of getting a slot myself?

Thanks,

Ricky
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rick Walker" <looppool@cruzio.com>
To: "LOOPERS DELIGHT (posting)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Cc: "Y2K LOOPFEST SAVES" <y2k6loopfest@yahoo.com>; "Mr Dick" 
<purplehand@hotmail.com>; "Rick Walker/Loop.pooL" <looppool@cruzio.com>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 4:45 AM
Subject: SUBMISSIONS Y2K8 INTERNATIONAL LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL


> Kevin Kissinger wrote:
>
> "One of the highlights of 2007 was the Y2K7 Live Looping festival.  I
> really want to participate in 2008 -- do we have any word on a 2008
> festival yet?  I heard rumors that it will be in Pittsburgh, PA...:
>
> Because I have produced this festival for the past 8 years and because I 
> am
> leaving on a long 10 week tour of Scandinavia, Germany and the British 
> Isles
> in May,     I had seriously discussed the possibility of farming out the
> festival to Pittsburgh this year.
>
> Unfortunately,  it just didn't work out after we put some serious thought 
> and
> advanced work into it.
>
> So............. I have decided to produce the Y2K8 LOOP FESTIVAL
> in Santa Cruz again this year  on October 18th and 19th.
>
> some changes this year:
>
> There probably will NOT be a Friday night concert like last year unless I 
> score a really big
> headliner (Bill Frisell,  David Torn,  Imogen Heap, Kellar Williams or 
> someone of that stature)
> but I reserve the right to change my mind at the last minute (smile)  and 
> there
> won't be additional bay area gigs.
>
> I feel a little badly about this because I"ve always tried to get gigs for 
> our travelling headliners in
> past years to make their stays more memorable,  but it's just gotten to be 
> too much work
> to juggle this enormous responsibility every year (especially in a year 
> where I 'm already
> juggling gigs in 10 countries ahead of time).  I will, however,  open up 
> to my booking information
> to travelling loopers so they can book gigs around the event.
>
> Additionally,  there is a strong possibility that there will be
> a Southern California version of the Y2K8 International Live Looping 
> Festival
> the weekend after the Santa Cruz main festival.     I'll wait for the 
> promoter of that event
> to officially announce it with details in his own time.
>
>
> I, unfortunately,  just do not have the time to make the festival be as 
> elaborate or as large as it
> has been in the past years due to time contraints  (it took me 4 1/2 
> months to produce
> in 2006 and it took me 6 months to produce in 2007),
>
> so what I'm going to do is this:
>
> I am going to give priority bookings to the artists who come from furthest 
> away
> and to artists who have never played the festival in the past first.
>
> Anyone who is interested in participating again this year should download,
> read and mail me the official Y2K8 Submission Application.
>
> The mailing address is on the FESTIVAL SUBMISSION APPLICATION FRORM
>
> available here:
>
> http://www.looppool.info/Y2K8submissionAPPLICATION/
>
> Thanks a lot,   yours,  Rick Walker
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1350 - Release 
> Date: 30/03/2008 12:32
>
> 







      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><br><div>&nbsp;</div>Chuck Silva<br><span><a target="_blank" href="http://www.myspace.com/chucksilva">http://www.myspace.com/chucksilva</a>  </span><br><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br><br><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">----- Original Message ----<br>From: Ricky Graham &lt;rock.guitar.guru@btinternet.com&gt;<br>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<br>Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 8:07:18 AM<br>Subject: Re: SUBMISSIONS   Y2K8 INTERNATIONAL LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL<br><br>
Hi Rick,<br><br>Would there be a possibility of getting a slot myself?<br><br>Thanks,<br><br>Ricky<br>----- Original Message ----- <br>From: "Rick Walker" &lt;<a ymailto="mailto:looppool@cruzio.com" href="mailto:looppool@cruzio.com">looppool@cruzio.com</a>&gt;<br>To: "LOOPERS DELIGHT (posting)" &lt;<a ymailto="mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" href="mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</a>&gt;<br>Cc: "Y2K LOOPFEST SAVES" &lt;<a ymailto="mailto:y2k6loopfest@yahoo.com" href="mailto:y2k6loopfest@yahoo.com">y2k6loopfest@yahoo.com</a>&gt;; "Mr Dick" <br>&lt;<a ymailto="mailto:purplehand@hotmail.com" href="mailto:purplehand@hotmail.com">purplehand@hotmail.com</a>&gt;; "Rick Walker/Loop.pooL" &lt;<a ymailto="mailto:looppool@cruzio.com" href="mailto:looppool@cruzio.com">looppool@cruzio.com</a>&gt;<br>Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 4:45 AM<br>Subject: SUBMISSIONS Y2K8 INTERNATIONAL LIVE LOOPING
 FESTIVAL<br><br><br>&gt; Kevin Kissinger wrote:<br>&gt;<br>&gt; "One of the highlights of 2007 was the Y2K7 Live Looping festival.&nbsp; I<br>&gt; really want to participate in 2008 -- do we have any word on a 2008<br>&gt; festival yet?&nbsp; I heard rumors that it will be in Pittsburgh, PA...:<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Because I have produced this festival for the past 8 years and because I <br>&gt; am<br>&gt; leaving on a long 10 week tour of Scandinavia, Germany and the British <br>&gt; Isles<br>&gt; in May,&nbsp; &nbsp;  I had seriously discussed the possibility of farming out the<br>&gt; festival to Pittsburgh this year.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Unfortunately,&nbsp; it just didn't work out after we put some serious thought <br>&gt; and<br>&gt; advanced work into it.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; So............. I have decided to produce the Y2K8 LOOP FESTIVAL<br>&gt; in Santa Cruz again this year&nbsp; on October 18th and 19th.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; some changes this
 year:<br>&gt;<br>&gt; There probably will NOT be a Friday night concert like last year unless I <br>&gt; score a really big<br>&gt; headliner (Bill Frisell,&nbsp; David Torn,&nbsp; Imogen Heap, Kellar Williams or <br>&gt; someone of that stature)<br>&gt; but I reserve the right to change my mind at the last minute (smile)&nbsp; and <br>&gt; there<br>&gt; won't be additional bay area gigs.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; I feel a little badly about this because I"ve always tried to get gigs for <br>&gt; our travelling headliners in<br>&gt; past years to make their stays more memorable,&nbsp; but it's just gotten to be <br>&gt; too much work<br>&gt; to juggle this enormous responsibility every year (especially in a year <br>&gt; where I 'm already<br>&gt; juggling gigs in 10 countries ahead of time).&nbsp; I will, however,&nbsp; open up <br>&gt; to my booking information<br>&gt; to travelling loopers so they can book gigs around the event.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;
 Additionally,&nbsp; there is a strong possibility that there will be<br>&gt; a Southern California version of the Y2K8 International Live Looping <br>&gt; Festival<br>&gt; the weekend after the Santa Cruz main festival.&nbsp; &nbsp;  I'll wait for the <br>&gt; promoter of that event<br>&gt; to officially announce it with details in his own time.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt; I, unfortunately,&nbsp; just do not have the time to make the festival be as <br>&gt; elaborate or as large as it<br>&gt; has been in the past years due to time contraints&nbsp; (it took me 4 1/2 <br>&gt; months to produce<br>&gt; in 2006 and it took me 6 months to produce in 2007),<br>&gt;<br>&gt; so what I'm going to do is this:<br>&gt;<br>&gt; I am going to give priority bookings to the artists who come from furthest <br>&gt; away<br>&gt; and to artists who have never played the festival in the past first.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Anyone who is interested in participating again this year should
 download,<br>&gt; read and mail me the official Y2K8 Submission Application.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; The mailing address is on the FESTIVAL SUBMISSION APPLICATION FRORM<br>&gt;<br>&gt; available here:<br>&gt;<br>&gt; <a href="http://www.looppool.info/Y2K8submissionAPPLICATION/" target="_blank">http://www.looppool.info/Y2K8submissionAPPLICATION/</a><br>&gt;<br>&gt; Thanks a lot,&nbsp;  yours,&nbsp; Rick Walker<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt; -- <br>&gt; No virus found in this incoming message.<br>&gt; Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1350 - Release <br>&gt; Date: 30/03/2008 12:32<br>&gt;<br>&gt; <br><br></div><br></div></div><br>

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Chuck Silva
http://www.myspace.com/chucksilva  


----- Original Message ----
From: Kevin Dix <KDix@rohmhaas.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 8:58:50 AM
Subject: unsubscribe


unsubscribe





      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><br><div>&nbsp;</div>Chuck Silva<br><span><a target="_blank" href="http://www.myspace.com/chucksilva">http://www.myspace.com/chucksilva</a>  </span><br><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br><br><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">----- Original Message ----<br>From: Kevin Dix &lt;KDix@rohmhaas.com&gt;<br>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<br>Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 8:58:50 AM<br>Subject: unsubscribe<br><br>

<br><font face="sans-serif" size="2">unsubscribe</font></div><br></div></div><br>



      <hr size=1>Be a better friend, newshound, and 
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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:53:08 +0200
From: "Per Boysen" <perboysen@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: remixers needed
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On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 1:35 PM, Raul Bonell <raul.bonell@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> http://www.realworldremixed.com/


That's a nice game! I'll memorize your great tip if I should get four
to five free days this summer (the time needed to churn out a remix).

But it would be more fun if this label would not stick with the old
traditional remix concept, where a record label uses remixes as a way
of increasing exposure for an existing product. I mean, all those
artists are "existing products" of the labels and that just missis a
lot of interesting artistic aspects in remixing. How much more cool
wouldn't it be if the source sounds provided would not be taken from
artists that already have their own signature sound and style!!! I
think PG could sample that beautiful small waterfall outside the
control room window for remixers to turn into music... or whatever...

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com

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From: Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com>
Subject: Re: RC-50 (and the "glitch" revisited...)
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 07:55:58 -0400
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Hi, I downloaded the update. It does work better, but not perfectly.  
I usually press stop after record, then play. That way there is no  
glitch.
On Apr 22, 2008, at 2:53 AM, Mech wrote:

> At 11:50 PM -0400 4/21/08, Patrick Suler wrote:
>>
>> If you haven't bought one yet, please research the glitch. i know  
>> you want to accentuate the positive, but the "glitch" and the  
>> sorry "fix" that Roland botched is what drove me to use it far  
>> less. Depending on your style, the glitch could be no big deal, or  
>> it could be a deal breaker. But please please please, for the love  
>> of all that is good and holy, PLEASE, try before you buy.
>
> I was just thinking: It's been a couple of months since the RC-50  
> users here found a "workaround" for the glitch (apply the latest  
> software update from Roland, *then* turn the guide track/sync/ 
> metronome off entirely, IIRC).
>
> What is the current consensus from those who have now tried this?  
> Does this finally solve the whole problem with the glitch, or is it  
> still there regardless?
>
> In the meantime, I've given several people the exact same warnings  
> as above.  I want to make certain, however, that I'm disseminating  
> the correct information when others ask for advice, not outdated  
> findings.
>
> Tanx!
>
> 	--m.
> -- 
> _____
> "bye-bye empire; empire, bye-bye"
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 11:57:28 2008
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Subject: RE: The Eye is as Quick as The Hand
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:57:24 +0200
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maybe the recording was done in one shot using live looping, but I'm pretty
sure the video was dubbed over the music afterwards

-michael


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 12:00:51 2008
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From: Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com>
Subject: Re: RC-50
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 08:00:44 -0400
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I use the RC50 a lot. There are couple of approaches regarding =20
looping. One is to use the looper as an instrument. Looping and =20
manipulating the loop in real time. The RC50 cant really do this. The =20=

other approach is to just use the looper as a recording device for =20
live performance. It works great for this. Watching the Roland demos, =20=

it seems that Roland envisioned the RC50 as a backing device. Not =20
really getting it. But I would guess they will soon come out with =20
something more in line with what hardcore loopers want.
By the way, I just picked up a VG99 and a Godin Freeway SA (the best =20
deal out there!). Together with the RC50, its a pretty amazing rig. =20
I'll try to post some music soon.
Chris


On Apr 21, 2008, at 9:27 PM, Scott Kellogg wrote:

> Any users on this list (of the RC-50 tee hee).  I'm concentrating =20
> on what it /can/ do rather than /cannot/.
>
> Scott
> --
> "However, faced with a fixed set of options, you are forced to =20
> employ those special, mystical powers =97 imagination and creativity."
> - Paul Nagle
>
>
>
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 12:09:55 2008
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Subject: Re: The Eye is as Quick as The Hand
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Maybe that the work-surface mic isn't picking up the percussion sounds? 
Other mics off camera?

I mean the "shaker" sound sounds like it was close mic'd but it's about 
three feet away from that SM58.

I'm prepared to accept that it was recorded in one take... exactly how much 
the audio was tweaked, edited and de-noised afterward is another matter 
altogether!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "andy butler" <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: The Eye is as Quick as The Hand


> Jeff Duke wrote:
>> Maybe someone off camera is  pushing the buttons or else its only a 
>> "fake" representation of what he is doing for the video?
>
> admire it for being a brilliant fake ;-)
>
> ..try putting a vocal mic on a work surface then recording perfectly
> balanced kitchen percussion......no way
>
> some of the later overdubs sound "bad" enough to be real tho'.
>
>
>
>
>
> andy butler
>
>
>>> <richard@glasswing.com> wrote:
>>>> I don't know if you got this guy.  In Wired recently:
>>>>
>>>>  http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/04/video-david-for.html
>>>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1390 - Release 
> Date: 4/21/2008 4:23 PM
>
> 

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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:15:41 +0200
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> > > On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 10:05 PM, Richard Sales <richard@glasswing.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I don't know if you got this guy.  In Wired recently:
> > > >
> > > >  http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/04/video-david-for.html


I think the guys is a more interesting singer than a looper ;-))   He
just uses looping as a recorder and not as an instrument. His voice is
obviously his best instrument and he should have called in a band to
perform that song together with him instead of performing it with such
pointless looping.

But musical aspects are obviously not the point here, which is sad.
The way Wired is writing implies that the point is to show the world
how "talented" the person is since he can play several instruments for
only two bars each. How lame.

Bring in Imogen Heap or Andrew Bird that uses looping creatively in a
pop song context.

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 12:45:15 2008
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Subject: Re: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
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Phil Manzanera.
Adrian Belew.  [sheesh!]
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: doc rossi=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 8:03 AM
  Subject: Re: LIST of FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS


  add an < l > to the end of the link to make it work


  On Apr 22, 2008, at 4:05 AM, Richard Sales wrote:


    I don't know if you got this guy.  In Wired recently:

    http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/04/video-david-for.htm

    richard sales
    glassWing farm and studio
    vancouver island, b.c.  =20
    www.glassWing.com     www.richardsales.com
    www.hayleysales.com     www.joannesales.com
    www.blueberryfieldsfarm.com=20
    www.broombusters.org


    On 21-Apr-08, at 3:41 PM, Rick Walker wrote:


      To help Darren with his thesis project on live looping I thought =
it might be really good
      to come up with a current list of well known live looping artists.

      People not mentioned in his initial list would have to include

      IMOGEN HEAP  (Frou Frou and solo career)

      JON BRION
                     (film soundtracks, multi instrumentalist and the
                     famous producer of Fiona Apple who has a weekly =
live looping gig in Los Angeles)

      KID BEYOND)(Andrew Chaikin's beatboxing all acapella live looping =
show is really attracting attention)

      ROB MASSIE (of 808 State just used live looping extensively in his =
SF show)

      ARILD ANDERSEN  (famous Norwegian jazz bassist,  part of the ECM =
records stable of solo and collaborative artists)

      EDDIE VEDDER (front man for Pearl Jam used live looping in his =
solo concert just last week in Santa Cruz,
                             parenthetically,  his opening act also used =
live looping and, point of civic pride here,  he wrote a brand
                             new composition about how much he loves =
Santa Cruz and performed it the evening that he wrote it)

      MATMOS (the producers who work with BJORK---I"m not sure here, but =
it sure seemed like they were looping
                       live in concert with her when I saw her recently)

      BILL FRISSEL  (possibly the most important American jazz artist =
today)

      DAVID TORN   (arguably the first high profile live looper and one =
who's been doing digital looping as long as anyone)

      HENRY KAISER  (one of the most influential and famous experimental =
musicians in the US today.   He was literally
                        doing live looping in the digital realm earlier =
than anyone.  I forgot the date that he told me but he
                        was doing this back in the 70's with the =
earliest digital delays)

      ROBERT FRIPP   (started much of this with his double REVOX tape =
machine live loops called Frippertronics)

      in our own community

      MATTHIAS GROB (inventor of the Pardis delay which became the =
Gibson Echoplex EDP with loop IV)
      KIM FLINT (American guitarist and founder of LOOPERS DELIGHT,  the =
mecca live looping website on the planet)
      ANDRE LAFOSSE (American guitar)
      CLAUDE VOIT  (Swiss guitar)
      ANDY BUTLER (British guitar)
      BILL WALKER  (American guitarist)
      PER BOYSEN (Swedish multi instrumentalist-popularizer of live =
looping in his country-founder of the 1st and 2nd SWEDISH LIVE LOOPING =
FESTIVALs)
      SUNAO INAMI (Japanese keyboardist/composer-popularizer of live =
looping in his country- founder for the LOOPERS DELIGHT J live looping =
festivals)
      ERDEM HELVACIOGLU (Turkish composer/guitarist)
      BERNHARD WAGNER (Swiss guitarist - popularizer of live looping in =
his country and founder of the 1st INTERNATIONAL LOOP FESTIVAL ZURICH)
      ANDREW OSTLER  (British electronic composer - popularizer of live =
looping in his country-founder of the CAMBRIDGE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL =
series)
      MASSIMO LIVERANI (ITALIAN guitarist - popularizer of live looping =
in his country-founder of the 1st FIRENZE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL)
      MICHAEL PETERS (German experimental artist/guitarist - popularizer =
of live looping in his country)
      LEANDER REININGHAUS (German Guitarist - popularizer of live =
looping in his country-founder of the BERLIN LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL =
series)
      MICHAEL KLOBUCHAR (American guitarist and founder of the Chain =
Tape Collective which was influential to the community
                         from the early days of Loopers Delight until =
the present)
      HANS LINDAUER (American electronic music/bassist- who started the =
influential LOOPSTOCKHAUSEN festivals)
      RAINER STRASCHILL (German guitarist - popularizer of the KKYBERJAM =
live looping movement)
      KRISPEN HARTUNG (American avant garde guitarist - popularizer of =
the live looping and founder of the BOISE EXPERIMENTAL
      MUSIC FESTIVAL)
      and all the loopers who produced small one off live looping =
festivals in their respective countries:

      Okay, my mind hurts and I know I've missed lots of people (please =
don't take offense if I"ve made glaring errors, I really do appreciate =
you.

      WHO ELSE? FAMOUS and also in our LOOPERS DELIGHT community?



      okay, I know I"m missing people but I wondered if everyone would =
pitch in and give credit where credit is due=20



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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Phil Manzanera.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Adrian Belew.&nbsp; =
[sheesh!]</FONT></DIV>
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style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
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  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
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  <A title=3Ddocittern@gmail.com href=3D"mailto:docittern@gmail.com">doc =
rossi</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 22, 2008 =
8:03=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: LIST of FAMOUS =
LIVE LOOPING=20
  ARTISTS</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>add an &lt; l &gt; to the end of the link to make it =
work
  <DIV><BR>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>On Apr 22, 2008, at 4:05 AM, Richard Sales wrote:</DIV><BR=20
  class=3DApple-interchange-newline>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">I don't know if you got this =
guy.&nbsp;&nbsp;In=20
    Wired recently:<BR><BR><SPAN><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/04/video-david-for.htm">http://b=
log.wired.com/music/2008/04/video-david-for.htm</A><BR></SPAN><BR><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Gadget">richard sales<BR></SPAN><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Gadget">glassWing farm and studio</SPAN><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Gadget"><BR>vancouver island, b.c.</SPAN><SPAN =

    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Gadget">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.glassWing.com">www.glassWing.com</A>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;<A=20
    href=3D"http://www.richardsales.com">www.richardsales.com</A><BR><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.hayleysales.com">www.hayleysales.com</A>&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<A=20
    href=3D"http://www.joannesales.com">www.joannesales.com</A><BR><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.blueberryfieldsfarm.com">www.blueberryfieldsfarm.com</=
A>=20
    <BR><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.broombusters.org">www.broombusters.org</A><BR><BR></SP=
AN><BR>On=20
    21-Apr-08, at 3:41 PM, Rick Walker wrote:<BR><BR>
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">To help Darren with his thesis project on =
live=20
      looping I thought it might be really good<BR>to come up with a =
current=20
      list of well known live looping artists.<BR><BR>People not =
mentioned in=20
      his initial list would have to include<BR><BR>IMOGEN =
HEAP&nbsp;&nbsp;(Frou=20
      Frou and solo career)<BR><BR>JON=20
      =
BRION<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(film=20
      soundtracks, multi instrumentalist and=20
      =
the<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;famous=20
      producer of Fiona Apple who has a weekly live looping gig in Los=20
      Angeles)<BR><BR>KID BEYOND)(Andrew Chaikin's beatboxing all =
acapella live=20
      looping show is really attracting attention)<BR><BR>ROB MASSIE (of =
808=20
      State just used live looping extensively in his SF =
show)<BR><BR>ARILD=20
      ANDERSEN&nbsp;&nbsp;(famous Norwegian jazz =
bassist,&nbsp;&nbsp;part of the=20
      ECM records stable of solo and collaborative artists)<BR><BR>EDDIE =
VEDDER=20
      (front man for Pearl Jam used live looping in his solo concert =
just last=20
      week in Santa=20
      =
Cruz,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;parenthetically,&nbsp;&nbsp;his=20
      opening act also used live looping and, point of civic pride=20
      here,&nbsp;&nbsp;he wrote a=20
      =
brand<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;new=20
      composition about how much he loves Santa Cruz and performed it =
the=20
      evening that he wrote it)<BR><BR>MATMOS (the producers who work =
with=20
      BJORK---I"m not sure here, but it sure seemed like they were=20
      =
looping<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;live=20
      in concert with her when I saw her recently)<BR><BR>BILL=20
      FRISSEL&nbsp;&nbsp;(possibly the most important American jazz =
artist=20
      today)<BR><BR>DAVID TORN&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(arguably the first high =
profile=20
      live looper and one who's been doing digital looping as long as=20
      anyone)<BR><BR>HENRY KAISER&nbsp;&nbsp;(one of the most =
influential and=20
      famous experimental musicians in the US today.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;He =
was=20
      =
literally<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;doing=20
      live looping in the digital realm earlier than =
anyone.&nbsp;&nbsp;I forgot=20
      the date that he told me but=20
      =
he<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;was=20
      doing this back in the 70's with the earliest digital=20
      delays)<BR><BR>ROBERT FRIPP&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(started much of this =
with=20
      his double REVOX tape machine live loops called =
Frippertronics)<BR><BR>in=20
      our own community<BR><BR>MATTHIAS GROB (inventor of the Pardis =
delay which=20
      became the Gibson Echoplex EDP with loop IV)<BR>KIM FLINT =
(American=20
      guitarist and founder of LOOPERS DELIGHT,&nbsp;&nbsp;the mecca =
live=20
      looping website on the planet)<BR>ANDRE LAFOSSE (American=20
      guitar)<BR>CLAUDE VOIT&nbsp;&nbsp;(Swiss guitar)<BR>ANDY BUTLER =
(British=20
      guitar)<BR>BILL WALKER&nbsp;&nbsp;(American guitarist)<BR>PER =
BOYSEN=20
      (Swedish multi instrumentalist-popularizer of live looping in his=20
      country-founder of the 1st and 2nd SWEDISH LIVE LOOPING=20
      FESTIVALs)<BR>SUNAO INAMI (Japanese =
keyboardist/composer-popularizer of=20
      live looping in his country- founder for the LOOPERS DELIGHT J =
live=20
      looping festivals)<BR>ERDEM HELVACIOGLU (Turkish=20
      composer/guitarist)<BR>BERNHARD WAGNER (Swiss guitarist - =
popularizer of=20
      live looping in his country and founder of the 1st INTERNATIONAL =
LOOP=20
      FESTIVAL ZURICH)<BR>ANDREW OSTLER&nbsp;&nbsp;(British electronic =
composer=20
      - popularizer of live looping in his country-founder of the =
CAMBRIDGE LIVE=20
      LOOPING FESTIVAL series)<BR>MASSIMO LIVERANI (ITALIAN guitarist -=20
      popularizer of live looping in his country-founder of the 1st =
FIRENZE LIVE=20
      LOOPING FESTIVAL)<BR>MICHAEL PETERS (German experimental =
artist/guitarist=20
      - popularizer of live looping in his country)<BR>LEANDER =
REININGHAUS=20
      (German Guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his =
country-founder of=20
      the BERLIN LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)<BR>MICHAEL KLOBUCHAR =
(American=20
      guitarist and founder of the Chain Tape Collective which was =
influential=20
      to the=20
      =
community<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;from=20
      the early days of Loopers Delight until the present)<BR>HANS =
LINDAUER=20
      (American electronic music/bassist- who started the influential=20
      LOOPSTOCKHAUSEN festivals)<BR>RAINER STRASCHILL (German guitarist =
-=20
      popularizer of the KKYBERJAM live looping movement)<BR>KRISPEN =
HARTUNG=20
      (American avant garde guitarist - popularizer of the live looping =
and=20
      founder of the BOISE EXPERIMENTAL<BR>MUSIC FESTIVAL)<BR>and all =
the=20
      loopers who produced small one off live looping festivals in their =

      respective countries:<BR><BR>Okay, my mind hurts and I know I've =
missed=20
      lots of people (please don't take offense if I"ve made glaring =
errors, I=20
      really do appreciate you.<BR><BR>WHO ELSE? FAMOUS and also in our =
LOOPERS=20
      DELIGHT community?<BR><BR><BR><BR>okay, I know I"m missing people =
but I=20
      wondered if everyone would pitch in and give credit where credit =
is due=20
      =
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>=


------=_NextPart_000_0053_01C8A47F.13491E60--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 12:47:09 2008
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Subject: Re: RC-50
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 08:47:07 -0400
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> Hi there Scott,
> I have an RC-50.  It is no longer my primary looper, because my =20
> style has changed somewhat. But I do employ it. Are you considering =20=

> getting one, or are you looking for ideas of how to use an RC-50 you =20=

> already have?

I've already got one.  It's my first foray into hardware-based looping.

>
> change audio tempo on the fly (albeit with aliasing)

The aliasing sounds good if you deliberately want your samples to =20
sound like crap :)
>
>
> Although it has no feedback control, there is a fellow around the =20
> list here (a European fellow) who figured out an interesting =20
> workaround, which you can find with an archive search.

Interesting.  I'll do this.

> If you haven't bought one yet, please research the glitch. i know =20
> you want to accentuate the positive, but the "glitch" and the sorry =20=

> "fix" that Roland botched is what drove me to use it far less. =20
> Depending on your style, the glitch could be no big deal, or it =20
> could be a deal breaker. But please please please, for the love of =20
> all that is good and holy, PLEASE, try before you buy.

I just play bass over the audio gap.  It's no big deal.

Scott
--
"However, faced with a fixed set of options, you are forced to employ =20=

those special, mystical powers =97 imagination and creativity."
- Paul Nagle






From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 12:47:27 2008
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Care to share your workflow?

On Apr 22, 2008, at 2:24 AM, Teddy Kumpel wrote:

> I use the RC-50 extensively....
>
> Teddy
>
>
> On Apr 21, 2008, at 9:27 PM, Scott Kellogg wrote:
>
>> Any users on this list (of the RC-50 tee hee).  I'm concentrating =20
>> on what it /can/ do rather than /cannot/.
>>
>> Scott
>> --
>> "However, faced with a fixed set of options, you are forced to =20
>> employ those special, mystical powers =97 imagination and =
creativity."
>> - Paul Nagle
>
>
>

--
"Divination is not a method of predicting the future, but a way of =20
connecting with higher wisdom and helping one make informed decisions."
- Robert M. Place




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It's an 'artist's impression' of a real performance - I've seen David  
live a few times, he's great, and does indeed loop in that way with, I  
think, an RC-20 (though he has a violinist he sometimes works with who  
has a more complex set-up IIRC).

I'm pretty sure that that is 'reconstructed', the way that his 'one  
take' video for State Of the Union was...

...all of which is a techie-geek distraction from his lovely  
songwriting. Who really gives an eff how it's done? :o)

Steve

Where to find me on the web -
  _______________________
*********************************
*** www.stevelawson.net - site
*** http://steve.anthropiccollective.org - blog
*** www.myspace.com/solobassstevelawson
*** www.reverbnation.com/stevelawson
*** www.twitter.com/solobasssteve
*** http://www.youtube.com/user/StevieSteve46 - loads of new video here!

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2008/4/22, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com>:
>
> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 1:35 PM, Raul Bonell <raul.bonell@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > http://www.realworldremixed.com/
>
>
> That's a nice game! I'll memorize your great tip if I should get four
> to five free days this summer (the time needed to churn out a remix).


After some sneak listening to the "Shock The Monkey" remixes... lots of
boring stuff..   I'm nearer Per's ...


But it would be more fun if this label would not stick with the old
> traditional remix concept, where a record label uses remixes as a way
> of increasing exposure for an existing product. I mean, all those
> artists are "existing products" of the labels and that just missis a
> lot of interesting artistic aspects in remixing. How much more cool
> wouldn't it be if the source sounds provided would not be taken from
> artists that already have their own signature sound and style!!! I
> think PG could sample that beautiful small waterfall outside the
> control room window for remixers to turn into music... or whatever...


Good point also. Not even considered this...
Thanks Per.

--
> Greetings from Sweden
>
> Per Boysen
> www.boysen.se (Swedish)
> www.looproom.com (international)
> www.stockholm-athens.com
>
>


-- 
The Playing Orchestra: http://www.telefonica.net/web2/tpo
Chain Tape Collective: http://www.ct-collective.com
TPO at myspace: http://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra
TPO at Jamendo: http://www.jamendo.com

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<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">2008/4/22, Per Boysen &lt;<a href="mailto:perboysen@gmail.com">perboysen@gmail.com</a>&gt;:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 1:35 PM, Raul Bonell &lt;<a href="mailto:raul.bonell@gmail.com">raul.bonell@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br> &gt;<br> &gt; <a href="http://www.realworldremixed.com/">http://www.realworldremixed.com/</a><br>
 <br> <br> That&#39;s a nice game! I&#39;ll memorize your great tip if I should get four<br> to five free days this summer (the time needed to churn out a remix).</blockquote><div><br>After some sneak listening to the &quot;Shock The Monkey&quot; remixes... lots of boring stuff.. &nbsp; I&#39;m nearer Per&#39;s ... <br>
&nbsp;</div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> But it would be more fun if this label would not stick with the old<br> traditional remix concept, where a record label uses remixes as a way<br>
 of increasing exposure for an existing product. I mean, all those<br> artists are &quot;existing products&quot; of the labels and that just missis a<br> lot of interesting artistic aspects in remixing. How much more cool<br>
 wouldn&#39;t it be if the source sounds provided would not be taken from<br> artists that already have their own signature sound and style!!! I<br> think PG could sample that beautiful small waterfall outside the<br> control room window for remixers to turn into music... or whatever...</blockquote>
<div><br>Good point also. Not even considered this...<br>Thanks Per.<br></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> --<br> Greetings from Sweden<br>
 <br> Per Boysen<br> <a href="http://www.boysen.se">www.boysen.se</a> (Swedish)<br> <a href="http://www.looproom.com">www.looproom.com</a> (international)<br> <a href="http://www.stockholm-athens.com">www.stockholm-athens.com</a><br>
 <br> </blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>The Playing Orchestra: <a href="http://www.telefonica.net/web2/tpo">http://www.telefonica.net/web2/tpo</a><br>Chain Tape Collective: <a href="http://www.ct-collective.com">http://www.ct-collective.com</a><br>
TPO at myspace: <a href="http://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra">http://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra</a><br>TPO at Jamendo: <a href="http://www.jamendo.com">http://www.jamendo.com</a>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 13:29:08 2008
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Hi,
I recently added a RC-50 page to my web site. 

http://home.scarlet.be/gare-d-anvers/sjaak/rc50.htm

It covers topics like:
- Info about the "glitch" or "audio gap" issue
- my personal review
- How to create a feedback loop

Sjaak

> Any users on this list (of the RC-50 tee hee).  I'm concentrating on  
> what it /can/ do rather than /cannot/.
=0A

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 13:30:51 2008
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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:30:48 +0200
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Markus Reuter should be high on that list too...

Since it's one of the few you mentioned that has
published realtime-loop based recordings specifically.

Ufff !... my english is getting worse.

Bye.

-- 
The Playing Orchestra: http://www.telefonica.net/web2/tpo
Chain Tape Collective: http://www.ct-collective.com
TPO at myspace: http://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra
TPO at Jamendo: http://www.jamendo.com

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Markus Reuter should be high on that list too...<br><br>Since it&#39;s one of the few you mentioned that has <br>published realtime-loop based recordings specifically.<br><br>Ufff !... my english is getting worse.<br><br>Bye.<br clear="all">
<br>-- <br>The Playing Orchestra: <a href="http://www.telefonica.net/web2/tpo">http://www.telefonica.net/web2/tpo</a><br>Chain Tape Collective: <a href="http://www.ct-collective.com">http://www.ct-collective.com</a><br>TPO at myspace: <a href="http://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra">http://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra</a><br>
TPO at Jamendo: <a href="http://www.jamendo.com">http://www.jamendo.com</a>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 13:41:47 2008
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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 08:41:43 -0500
From: kkissinger@kevinkissinger.com
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Subject: Re: Announcing electro-music 2008
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Quoting Bob Amstadt <bobld@amstadt.com>:
>
> Yea, unless a festival can secure enough corporate sponsors, you are
> forced to run it this way.  Basically, you can think of it as a
> convention.  People are gathered to share their art with their peers.
>
That is how I view electro-music -- as a convention.

-- Kevin

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 13:46:02 2008
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Thanks for the link!

My thinking with the RC-50 was that is it's a capable machine at its  
price point.  I don't want to bring a laptop onstage (I'm a programmer  
by trade, and looking at a computer to do music can be not so fun  
anymore).  One thing I'd like to do with the unit is set up a submix  
on my Mackie 1202 from my drummer's kit and do some live looping  
during his drum solo.  It seems like the RC-50 will be great for this.

Scott

On Apr 22, 2008, at 9:29 AM, Sjaak wrote:

> Hi,
> I recently added a RC-50 page to my web site.
>
> http://home.scarlet.be/gare-d-anvers/sjaak/rc50.htm
>
> It covers topics like:
> - Info about the "glitch" or "audio gap" issue
> - my personal review
> - How to create a feedback loop
>
> Sjaak
>
>> Any users on this list (of the RC-50 tee hee).  I'm concentrating on
>> what it /can/ do rather than /cannot/.
>
>
>

--
"Divination is not a method of predicting the future, but a way of  
connecting with higher wisdom and helping one make informed decisions."
- Robert M. Place




From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 14:20:25 2008
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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 10:20:23 -0400
From: "Dennis Moser" <sinsofmachaut@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: The Eye is as Quick as The Hand
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Actually, I care quite a bit  HOW it's done ...it doesn't lessen the
magic of the performance. In fact for me, it deepens the expereince
knowing what the performers is doing to accomplish their feats.

I had a friend who, along with his father, were accomplished
magicians. They would DELIBERATELY show how they did a trick. They
made it perfectly clear to the point that I could do it as well ...
but to watch them do the trick was still a delight because what I was
know seeing was their mastery of the trick (this was, BTW, years
before Penn and Teller began their "debunking" approach to magic).

The same goes for how this video was done ... someone says this guy is
looping, I want to see HOW he is using the tools. And you can't see it
with this video. I think the real fault, if there is one to be laid,
is with WIRED for their presentation ... but I guess if it means that
David will get more listeners then "it's all good."

Sure the guy is definitely talented and I'm not trying to take that
away from him. I'm sorry I won't be able to make it in to Boston to
night to catch him at the Paradise to see him do this live. But I'm
pretty convinced now that what we saw in this video was not David
doing an actual recording of that song.

Dennis

On 4/22/08, Steve Lawson <steve@steve-lawson.co.uk> wrote:
> It's an 'artist's impression' of a real performance - I've seen David live a
> few times, he's great, and does indeed loop in that way with, I think, an
> RC-20 (though he has a violinist he sometimes works with who has a more
> complex set-up IIRC).
>
>  I'm pretty sure that that is 'reconstructed', the way that his 'one take'
> video for State Of the Union was...
>
>  ...all of which is a techie-geek distraction from his lovely songwriting.
> Who really gives an eff how it's done? :o)
>
>  Steve
>
>  Where to find me on the web -
>   _______________________
>  *********************************
>  *** www.stevelawson.net - site
>  *** http://steve.anthropiccollective.org - blog
>  *** www.myspace.com/solobassstevelawson
>  *** www.reverbnation.com/stevelawson
>  *** www.twitter.com/solobasssteve
>  *** http://www.youtube.com/user/StevieSteve46 - loads of
> new video here!
>
>

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The thing is, the more advanced and smoother the looping, the less
noticeable it is to the audience.  Besides, the majority of them don't care
if you're looping or performing to canned backing tracks, leaving only the
looping musicians to sound like guitarists snarking about how a pop artist
can't really play that fast and by the way, have you heard the latest Allan
Holdsworth...

Every now and then the media picks up the looping as an angle for the
story--remember K.T. Tunstall?

TH

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 5:15 AM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:

> <http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/04/video-david-for.html>
>
>
> I think the guys is a more interesting singer than a looper ;-))   He
> just uses looping as a recorder and not as an instrument. His voice is
> obviously his best instrument and he should have called in a band to
> perform that song together with him instead of performing it with such
> pointless looping.
>
> But musical aspects are obviously not the point here, which is sad.
> The way Wired is writing implies that the point is to show the world
> how "talented" the person is since he can play several instruments for
> only two bars each. How lame.
>
> Bring in Imogen Heap or Andrew Bird that uses looping creatively in a
> pop song context.
>
>
>

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The thing is, the more advanced and smoother the looping, the less noticeable it is to the audience.&nbsp; Besides, the majority of them don&#39;t care if you&#39;re looping or performing to canned backing tracks, leaving only the looping musicians to sound like guitarists snarking about how a pop artist can&#39;t really play that fast and by the way, have you heard the latest Allan Holdsworth...&nbsp; <br>
<br>Every now and then the media picks up the looping as an angle for the story--remember K.T. Tunstall?<br><br>TH<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 5:15 AM, Per Boysen &lt;<a href="mailto:perboysen@gmail.com">perboysen@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="Ih2E3d"><a href="http://blog.wired.com/music/2008/04/video-david-for.html" target="_blank"></a><br>

<br>
<br>
</div>I think the guys is a more interesting singer than a looper ;-)) &nbsp; He<br>
just uses looping as a recorder and not as an instrument. His voice is<br>
obviously his best instrument and he should have called in a band to<br>
perform that song together with him instead of performing it with such<br>
pointless looping.<br>
<br>
But musical aspects are obviously not the point here, which is sad.<br>
The way Wired is writing implies that the point is to show the world<br>
how &quot;talented&quot; the person is since he can play several instruments for<br>
only two bars each. How lame.<br>
<br>
Bring in Imogen Heap or Andrew Bird that uses looping creatively in a<br>
pop song context.<br>
<font color="#888888"><br><br></font></blockquote></div><br>

------=_Part_15949_11387681.1208874309221--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 14:40:16 2008
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From: Teddy Kumpel <teddybut@mac.com>
Subject: Re: RC-50
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 10:40:09 -0400
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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ok.

I don't post here very much, but let me just say that I have learned =20
a lot about the craft of looping here. Mucho respect to all the =20
master loopers on the list.

my band almost always just makes up songs on the fly and we hardly =20
ever do anything in our set without the RC-50.
I would say that the whole gig is based around that box... that being =20=

said, I don't want it to seem that way.
I don't want the band to be about the technology. It's just part of =20
what we do to make our music.

I have a mixer with 2 different vocal mics (one is a cb mic with echo =20=

on it) and a toy keyboard plugged into the left side of the RC_50 and =20=

my guitar pedalboard output plugged into the right. The right side =20
SUB output goes to a PA and the left side SUB output first goes into =20
an on/off switch then into a gtr amp. This way it's like having 2 =20
mono RC-50s in one box. I can freely mute the output of the vocal or =20
gtr sides independently. After my pedalboard and before the RC-50 I =20
have an A/B/Y switch. A goes to the RC-50 and B goes to my live gtr =20
amp. With that swicth I can control what is going into the RC-50 from =20=

my gtr.

I never listen to the guide track through the PA, only in headphones. =20=

The drummer and I both have headphones on (I have one ipod head phone =20=

and he has these cheapo panasonic ones that clip behind the ear, so =20
he can hear the band and the guide track.)

I have 2 blank patches, one for multi mode and one for single mode, =20
ready to go.
I sometimes hold the mic over his snare drum to get that in the loop.
I use the reverse functions a lot.
I have 2 FC-6 control pedals hooked up for extra buttons. I use =20
"clear" "reverse" and program up and down
I reprogrammed the undo switch on the RC-50 to be ALL start and stop.
I have a master stereo volume pedal across the outputs of the RC-50.
I do a lot of dub remix type activity using a line 6 verbzilla that I =20=

have after the mixer side, before the PA.

we mainly improvise funny, funky gtr trio music. Sometimes I sing a =20
song.

that's about it. if you're in NYC, come see us. We play at =20
nightingale Lounge on 2nd and 13th every Thursday.

Teddy


On Apr 22, 2008, at 8:47 AM, Scott Kellogg wrote:

> Care to share your workflow?
>
> On Apr 22, 2008, at 2:24 AM, Teddy Kumpel wrote:
>
>> I use the RC-50 extensively....
>>
>> Teddy
>>
>>
>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 9:27 PM, Scott Kellogg wrote:
>>
>>> Any users on this list (of the RC-50 tee hee).  I'm concentrating =20=

>>> on what it /can/ do rather than /cannot/.
>>>
>>> Scott
>>> --
>>> "However, faced with a fixed set of options, you are forced to =20
>>> employ those special, mystical powers =97 imagination and =
creativity."
>>> - Paul Nagle
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> "Divination is not a method of predicting the future, but a way of =20
> connecting with higher wisdom and helping one make informed =20
> decisions."
> - Robert M. Place
>
>
>
>

--
PS.
--
EPK

my band, Mister Shifty, is doing some shows at Nightingale Lounge...

Featuring
Teddy K - gtr, vocals, toy keyboard, kazoo and cb mic
Matt Miller on drums
? on bass

every Thursday in April
all shows 8pm, 2 long sets

http://nightingalelounge.com

212.473.9398

213 Second Avenue
(NW Corner of East 13th St. & 2nd Ave.)
NYC 10003
Trains: L,N,Q,R,W,4,5,6 to Union Square/ 14th Street, L to 1st Avenue

more gigs:
April 25th at Banjo jim's, nyc 8pm (opening for Lenny Kaye)
April 26th at Ace of Clubs, nyc 11pm (chris crosby's birthday party)
--
new videos of my hippy dippy dance trio weekly
mister shifty
--
Teddybut's song "My Country" is featured on Neil Young's "LIVING  =20
WITH WAR TODAY" site
--
visit teddybut on my space
--
new teddybut cd "The Man" is available online at
cd baby
--
Teddybut- "The Man" is part of the rotation at
Harris Radio
--
Interviews
--
http://www.teddybut.com
Kumpelstiltskin Music, Inc.
Brooklyn, NY

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long =20
plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die =20
like dogs. There's also a negative side."
   --Hunter S. Thompson




From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 14:42:38 2008
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Per wrote:
"But musical aspects are obviously not the point here, which is sad.
The way Wired is writing implies that the point is to show the world
how "talented" the person is since he can play several instruments for
only two bars each. How lame."


I watched this video closely and it's very apparent that it isn't being done 
in real time.
When the lead vocals come in, the timbre shifts and it is suddenly, 
perfectly compressed
and riding over the top..............at the end, when it is panned down 
there are no controllers under his feet.

That being said and done,  I completely disagree with my dear and respected 
friend Per on his take on this.

I think it is extremely rare to find a musician who can not only write one 
bar parts in a song that can continually
keep layering on without causing any timbral, rhythmic or harmonic 
masking...........let alone the fact that this
guy is a wonderful singer;  a fantastic harmony singer,  a decent drummer, 
percussionist, guitarist, bassist and pianist.

I think his talent is exceptional, despite the fact that he is doing very 
simple overdub looping in the original piece (whether
done real time or not, doesn't even matter to me).

Such arrangement skills............such understanding of the physics of 
music is just unbelievably rare in my estimation.

He may not be doing anything complex in terms of live looping but neither 
did Miro in his set in Y2K6 and I thought his performance
was one of the most effective ones in the entire history of the live looping 
festivals that I've been part of.

It's very difficult to layer the 13 some odd loops that this guy did and 
still make it work.

You think it's not true..........................just try 
it..............try looping 13 layers on a pop song and not have it sound 
like utter mush.
It is,  like writing an amazingly catchy pop song that worms it's way into 
millions of listeners minds and ears..............a kind of
holy grail to me.   Many , many musicians put it down, but very few can 
actually accomplish it.

Very, very fucking rare!

I applaud him and can't wait to see him play some 
time...................anyone know how to get him to come play the loop 
festivals?

Rick 

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Where do I buy my tickets?

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 1:20 AM, Boise Experimental Music Festival
<khartung@cableone.net> wrote:
> That's it! From now on, I'm burning sage at my festival and hiring a few
> dozen half naked neo-hippie teenagers reeking with petruli oil, 2 week old
> sweat, and reefer smoke, to haphazardly prance around the back of the venue.
> :)   Oh yeah, and they all have to drive their parents' Beamers to the show.
> I can see my ticket sales quadrupling already...KaChing!
>
>  Kris
>
>

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I was there last year (which is where I met Kevin).

I don't get the outrage - you don't like it,
don't participate. The ticket cost was minimal. It was fun - lots of
interesting people there. I doubt that the organizers were turning
much of a profit. I don't think there was hardly anyone there who
wasn't performing. The space was out in the Philly burbs - no walk-by,
no hip urban environment (or hip beach college town environment) to
speak of. Food is included, although it's pretty spotty - but there is
no place in walking distance to eat. And it's a big space (if it's the
same) - don't know what the rental is, but there is a concert hall, an
addl performance room and an events room, along with a jam room
upstairs. something happening pretty continuously everywhere, it
seemed to me.

Hey, I used to belong to bands where we payed for rehearsal space -
that was about as much "pay to play" as this is, really.

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 9:41 AM,  <kkissinger@kevinkissinger.com> wrote:
> Quoting Bob Amstadt <bobld@amstadt.com>:
>
> >
> > Yea, unless a festival can secure enough corporate sponsors, you are
> > forced to run it this way.  Basically, you can think of it as a
> > convention.  People are gathered to share their art with their peers.
> >
> >
>  That is how I view electro-music -- as a convention.
>
>  -- Kevin
>
>

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At 7:21 AM -0500 4/22/08, Jeff Duke wrote:
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Moser" <sinsofmachaut@gmail.com>
>>
>>Watch the video VERY closely and follow the sequences that he lays
>>down. At no time is there an evident "controller" or "trigger" to
>>switch when he goes from the "layers" to singing the verses of the
>>song ... what gives?
>
>Maybe someone off camera is  pushing the buttons or else its only a 
>"fake" representation of what he is doing for the video?

I did a quick scan across the forum on his site and picked up two 
possibly useful bits of info.  First, FWIW it appears that David Ford 
may have traded in his RC-20 for an Electro-Harmonix 2880 (or two). 
Second, there were a couple of sideways references to another looper 
named Hannah, who it appears handles the mix for David.

In many of the other YouTube videos, you can definitely see him 
hitting some or other floor pedal while performing -- even if you 
can't see what kind of pedal it is.  Also, you can hear that it 
sounds much more like the standard hardware footswitch clicks, as 
opposed to the sort of muffled "klonk" you get from a Boss 
footswitch.  That fits well with the 2880 speculation.

And, obviously, there's at least one more individual involved in the 
video (who's operating the camera?). I'd say that there's just 
another person working the buttons back at the board.

	--m.
-- 
_____
"the wind in my heart; the dust in my head...."

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At 2:29 PM +0100 4/22/08, Sjaak wrote:
>Hi,
>I recently added a RC-50 page to my web site.
>
>http://home.scarlet.be/gare-d-anvers/sjaak/rc50.htm
>
>It covers topics like:
>- Info about the "glitch" or "audio gap" issue
>- my personal review
>- How to create a feedback loop

Sweet!  All the information one should need, in easy to follow steps, 
right there on a single page.

Sjaak, do you have any objection to our giving out that URL to other 
interested parties?

TIA!
	--m.
-- 
_____
"bye-bye empire; empire, bye-bye"

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 14:58:47 2008
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On Mon, 21 Apr 2008, Rick Walker wrote:

> To help Darren with his thesis project on live looping I thought it might be 
> really good
> to come up with a current list of well known live looping artists.

I would add to the many others both on this list and added in following 
messages the performer Yoav. Solo acoustic guitar singer/songwriter, he 
used live looping as an integral technique on every song when I saw him 
perform. I liked his album _Charmed and Strange_. Yoav toured the US last 
year as the opening act for Tori Amos.

I also use live looping a lot in my own performances.

regards,
Steve B  Subscape Annex  http://www.subscapeannex.com/

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 15:01:41 2008
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--Apple-Mail-1-788549110
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I was too impatient to get the music to load.  Does it actually?

On Apr 22, 2008, at 10:56 AM, Mech wrote:

> At 2:29 PM +0100 4/22/08, Sjaak wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I recently added a RC-50 page to my web site.
>>
>> http://home.scarlet.be/gare-d-anvers/sjaak/rc50.htm
>>
>> It covers topics like:
>> - Info about the "glitch" or "audio gap" issue
>> - my personal review
>> - How to create a feedback loop
>
> Sweet!  All the information one should need, in easy to follow  
> steps, right there on a single page.
>
> Sjaak, do you have any objection to our giving out that URL to other  
> interested parties?
>
> TIA!
> 	--m.
> -- 
> _____
> "bye-bye empire; empire, bye-bye"
>

--
Solve et coagula.





--Apple-Mail-1-788549110
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>I was too impatient to get =
the music to load. &nbsp;Does it actually?&nbsp;</div><br><div><div>On =
Apr 22, 2008, at 10:56 AM, Mech wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>At =
2:29 PM +0100 4/22/08, Sjaak wrote:<br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Hi,<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">I recently =
added a RC-50 page to my web site.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><a =
href=3D"http://home.scarlet.be/gare-d-anvers/sjaak/rc50.htm">http://home.s=
carlet.be/gare-d-anvers/sjaak/rc50.htm</a><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">It covers =
topics like:<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">- Info about the =
"glitch" or "audio gap" issue<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">- =
my personal review<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">- How to =
create a feedback loop<br></blockquote><br>Sweet! &nbsp;All the =
information one should need, in easy to follow steps, right there on a =
single page.<br><br>Sjaak, do you have any objection to our giving out =
that URL to other interested parties?<br><br>TIA!<br><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span>--m.<br>-- <br>_____<br>"bye-bye empire; empire, =
bye-bye"<br><br></div></blockquote></div><br><div> <span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div><i>--</i></div><div><i>Solve et =
coagula.</i></div><div><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"> </div><br></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-1-788549110--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 15:03:08 2008
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Subject: Re: Announcing electro-music 2008
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:03:07 -0400
References: <j00b36k3LKfX7c.RZmta@mo-p07-ob.rzone.de> <01a601c8a401$ed0d1800$6601a8c0@americas.hpqcorp.net> <1AE4E20E-A701-48DF-B0C0-FFE50D733D62@gmail.com> <013e01c8a410$bb24eb10$5901a8c0@bobdell> <20080422084143.1c44b5551c48owk4@mail.kevinkissinger.com> <101191640804220744m772eee55ucf03d1272cd6834f@mail.gmail.com>
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It's in Tennessee now.  I met the guys who are putting it on back in  
2005 in Philly and they are super-cool.  I think we're in for a treat  
this year.  When I went, they had a few kegs of good beer at night at  
the venue.  It was awesome.

Scott

On Apr 22, 2008, at 10:44 AM, Warren Sirota wrote:

> I was there last year (which is where I met Kevin).
>
> I don't get the outrage - you don't like it,
> don't participate. The ticket cost was minimal. It was fun - lots of
> interesting people there. I doubt that the organizers were turning
> much of a profit. I don't think there was hardly anyone there who
> wasn't performing. The space was out in the Philly burbs - no walk-by,
> no hip urban environment (or hip beach college town environment) to
> speak of. Food is included, although it's pretty spotty - but there is
> no place in walking distance to eat. And it's a big space (if it's the
> same) - don't know what the rental is, but there is a concert hall, an
> addl performance room and an events room, along with a jam room
> upstairs. something happening pretty continuously everywhere, it
> seemed to me.
>
> Hey, I used to belong to bands where we payed for rehearsal space -
> that was about as much "pay to play" as this is, really.
>
> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 9:41 AM,  <kkissinger@kevinkissinger.com>  
> wrote:
>> Quoting Bob Amstadt <bobld@amstadt.com>:
>>
>>>
>>> Yea, unless a festival can secure enough corporate sponsors, you are
>>> forced to run it this way.  Basically, you can think of it as a
>>> convention.  People are gathered to share their art with their  
>>> peers.
>>>
>>>
>> That is how I view electro-music -- as a convention.
>>
>> -- Kevin
>>
>>
>

--
"When it's right, nothing can stop it.  When it's wrong, nothing can  
make it happen."
- Jonathan Livingston Seagull





From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 15:03:29 2008
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> Mech wrote:
> Sjaak, do you have any objection to our giving out that URL to other 
> interested parties?

No problem :)

Sjaak
=0A

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 15:03:40 2008
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Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:03:32 +0900
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Mech <mech@m3ch.net>
Subject: Re: RC-50 (and the "glitch" revisited...)
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At 7:55 AM -0400 4/22/08, Chris Sewell wrote:
>On Apr 22, 2008, at 2:53 AM, Mech wrote:
>>
>>In the meantime, I've given several people the exact same warnings 
>>as above.  I want to make certain, however, that I'm disseminating 
>>the correct information when others ask for advice, not outdated 
>>findings.
>
>Hi, I downloaded the update. It does work better, but not perfectly. 
>I usually press stop after record, then play. That way there is no 
>glitch.

Ah, that'd work.  I was curious, though, if anybody in addition to 
Sjaak had been able to nuke the glitch while going straight out of 
record into play.

(oh, and btw: welcome to the vg-99 club, chris.  i've had one for the 
best part of a year now, and i still find it a pretty amazing piece 
of gear.  let us know if there's anything you need help with, and 
i'll be happy to chime in.)

	--m.
-- 
_____
"take one step outside yourself. the whole path lasts no longer than 
one step..."

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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:14:28 +0200
From: "Per Boysen" <perboysen@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Announcing electro-music 2008
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	 <01a601c8a401$ed0d1800$6601a8c0@americas.hpqcorp.net>
	 <1AE4E20E-A701-48DF-B0C0-FFE50D733D62@gmail.com>
	 <013e01c8a410$bb24eb10$5901a8c0@bobdell>
	 <20080422084143.1c44b5551c48owk4@mail.kevinkissinger.com>
	 <101191640804220744m772eee55ucf03d1272cd6834f@mail.gmail.com>
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I totally get the picture and would gladly pay that price for a
ticket, if it wasn't happening so far away. It seems as the typical
gathering were you would rather not want to haul around instruments to
perform in order to being more free for walking and talking around all
those awesomely nerdy people.

per



On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Warren Sirota <wsirota@wsdesigns.com> wrote:
> I was there last year (which is where I met Kevin).
>
>  I don't get the outrage - you don't like it,
>  don't participate. The ticket cost was minimal. It was fun - lots of
>  interesting people there. I doubt that the organizers were turning
>  much of a profit. I don't think there was hardly anyone there who
>  wasn't performing. The space was out in the Philly burbs - no walk-by,
>  no hip urban environment (or hip beach college town environment) to
>  speak of. Food is included, although it's pretty spotty - but there is
>  no place in walking distance to eat. And it's a big space (if it's the
>  same) - don't know what the rental is, but there is a concert hall, an
>  addl performance room and an events room, along with a jam room
>  upstairs. something happening pretty continuously everywhere, it
>  seemed to me.
>
>  Hey, I used to belong to bands where we payed for rehearsal space -
>  that was about as much "pay to play" as this is, really.
>
>  On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 9:41 AM,  <kkissinger@kevinkissinger.com> wrote:
>  > Quoting Bob Amstadt <bobld@amstadt.com>:
>  >
>  > >
>  > > Yea, unless a festival can secure enough corporate sponsors, you are
>  > > forced to run it this way.  Basically, you can think of it as a
>  > > convention.  People are gathered to share their art with their peers.
>  > >
>  > >
>  >  That is how I view electro-music -- as a convention.
>  >
>  >  -- Kevin
>  >
>  >
>
>



-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 15:21:17 2008
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Subject: Re: Announcing electro-music 2008
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:21:15 -0400
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The first year there were some Featured Artists that may have had some  
financial assistance.  This is complete speculation and not intended  
to be rumor mongering.  But, hey, they flew from the Netherlands :)

Scott

On Apr 22, 2008, at 11:14 AM, Per Boysen wrote:

> I totally get the picture and would gladly pay that price for a
> ticket, if it wasn't happening so far away. It seems as the typical
> gathering were you would rather not want to haul around instruments to
> perform in order to being more free for walking and talking around all
> those awesomely nerdy people.
>
> per
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Warren Sirota  
> <wsirota@wsdesigns.com> wrote:
>> I was there last year (which is where I met Kevin).
>>
>> I don't get the outrage - you don't like it,
>> don't participate. The ticket cost was minimal. It was fun - lots of
>> interesting people there. I doubt that the organizers were turning
>> much of a profit. I don't think there was hardly anyone there who
>> wasn't performing. The space was out in the Philly burbs - no walk- 
>> by,
>> no hip urban environment (or hip beach college town environment) to
>> speak of. Food is included, although it's pretty spotty - but there  
>> is
>> no place in walking distance to eat. And it's a big space (if it's  
>> the
>> same) - don't know what the rental is, but there is a concert hall,  
>> an
>> addl performance room and an events room, along with a jam room
>> upstairs. something happening pretty continuously everywhere, it
>> seemed to me.
>>
>> Hey, I used to belong to bands where we payed for rehearsal space -
>> that was about as much "pay to play" as this is, really.
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 9:41 AM,  <kkissinger@kevinkissinger.com>  
>> wrote:
>>> Quoting Bob Amstadt <bobld@amstadt.com>:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yea, unless a festival can secure enough corporate sponsors, you  
>>>> are
>>>> forced to run it this way.  Basically, you can think of it as a
>>>> convention.  People are gathered to share their art with their  
>>>> peers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> That is how I view electro-music -- as a convention.
>>>
>>> -- Kevin
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Greetings from Sweden
>
> Per Boysen
> www.boysen.se (Swedish)
> www.looproom.com (international)
> www.stockholm-athens.com
>

--
Solve et coagula.





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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>The first year there were =
some Featured Artists that may have had some financial assistance. =
&nbsp;This is complete speculation and not intended to be rumor =
mongering. &nbsp;But, hey, they&nbsp;flew from the Netherlands =
:)</div><div><br></div><div>Scott</div><br><div><div>On Apr 22, 2008, at =
11:14 AM, Per Boysen wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>I =
totally get the picture and would gladly pay that price for a<br>ticket, =
if it wasn't happening so far away. It seems as the typical<br>gathering =
were you would rather not want to haul around instruments to<br>perform =
in order to being more free for walking and talking around all<br>those =
awesomely nerdy people.<br><br>per<br><br><br><br>On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 =
at 4:44 PM, Warren Sirota &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wsirota@wsdesigns.com">wsirota@wsdesigns.com</a>> =
wrote:<br><blockquote type=3D"cite">I was there last year (which is =
where I met Kevin).<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> I don't get =
the outrage - you don't like it,<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"> don't participate. The ticket cost was minimal. It was =
fun - lots of<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> interesting =
people there. I doubt that the organizers were =
turning<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> much of a profit. I =
don't think there was hardly anyone there =
who<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> wasn't performing. The =
space was out in the Philly burbs - no =
walk-by,<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> no hip urban =
environment (or hip beach college town environment) =
to<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> speak of. Food is =
included, although it's pretty spotty - but there =
is<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> no place in walking =
distance to eat. And it's a big space (if it's =
the<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> same) - don't know what =
the rental is, but there is a concert hall, =
an<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> addl performance room and =
an events room, along with a jam room<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"> upstairs. something happening pretty continuously =
everywhere, it<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> seemed to =
me.<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite"> Hey, I used to belong to bands where we payed for =
rehearsal space -<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> that was =
about as much "pay to play" as this is, =
really.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"> On Tue, Apr =
22, 2008 at 9:41 AM, &nbsp;&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:kkissinger@kevinkissinger.com">kkissinger@kevinkissinger.co=
m</a>> wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Quoting Bob Amstadt &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bobld@amstadt.com">bobld@amstadt.com</a>>:<br></blockquote>=
</blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Yea, =
unless a festival can secure enough corporate sponsors, you =
are<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">forced =
to run it this way. &nbsp;Basically, you can think of it as =
a<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">convention. &nbsp;People are gathered to share their art =
with their peers.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"> That is how I view =
electro-music -- as a =
convention.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"> -- =
Kevin<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><br><br><br>-- <br>Greetings from =
Sweden<br><br>Per Boysen<br><a =
href=3D"http://www.boysen.se">www.boysen.se</a> (Swedish)<br><a =
href=3D"http://www.looproom.com">www.looproom.com</a> =
(international)<br><a =
href=3D"http://www.stockholm-athens.com">www.stockholm-athens.com</a><br><=
br></div></blockquote></div><br><div> <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div><i>--</i></div><div><i>Solve et =
coagula.</i></div><div><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"> </div><br></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-2-789725499--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 15:27:40 2008
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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:27:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Travis Lund <tlund@berklee.net>
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Huh, this is really interesting.  I got the RC-50 about 2 years ago, at a t=
ime when I wasn't very technology savvy.  (At the time, about half the manu=
al regarding MIDI-syncing and stuff pretty much went right over my head).  =
Despite having gotten much more comfortable with these things recently, I'v=
e still never bothered with all the computer-sync stuff, because I don't us=
e a laptop in my rig.  I gather a lot of folks here don't consider this to =
be a serious enough looper, but I honestly think it serves just fine, and m=
y set is all one-man-band free imrpov looping stuff, so it's not like I'm j=
ust sitting around overdubbing a drum track and bassline to solo over.  I d=
o all my individual manipulation pre-rather-than post looping with a KP3.  =
I know this is an ass-backwards workflow for the guys who love manipulating=
 stuff after the fact, but it's the rig I have.  That being said, I get the=
 sneaking suspicion that I'm only content because I'm unaware of the better=
 possibilites out there, so does anyone have any suggestions as to an upgra=
de with more looping capabilities that won't obliterate my budget?  I was t=
hinking of just buying a JamMan or Headrush or something and using a line s=
elector to record to either that or the RC-50, and running them simultaneou=
sly, but I don't know.  Any ideas?  Thanks.  Can I also just say this list =
and everyone on it f*$&#kin rock my world!!!
-Travis

---------------------------------------
Original E-mail
From: Sjaak [tcplugin@scarlet.be]
Date: 04/22/2008 09:29 AM=20
To: Loopers-Delight [Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com]
Subject: Re:RC-50

Hi,
I recently added a RC-50 page to my web site.=20

http://home.scarlet.be/gare-d-anvers/sjaak/rc50.htm

It covers topics like:
- Info about the "glitch" or "audio gap" issue
- my personal review
- How to create a feedback loop

Sjaak

> Any users on this list (of the RC-50 tee hee).  I'm concentrating on =20
> what it /can/ do rather than /cannot/.






From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 15:37:10 2008
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 AFRiCAN HEAD CHARGE !

















_________________________________________________________________
In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_Refr=
esh_realtime_042008=

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=3D"EC_EC_EC_EC_EC_bodybold"></span><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br=
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dy>
</html>=

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 15:44:40 2008
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Rockin' post.

What do you mean by "cb mic"?

Scott

On Apr 22, 2008, at 10:40 AM, Teddy Kumpel wrote:

> ok.
>
> I don't post here very much, but let me just say that I have learned =20=

> a lot about the craft of looping here. Mucho respect to all the =20
> master loopers on the list.
>
> my band almost always just makes up songs on the fly and we hardly =20
> ever do anything in our set without the RC-50.
> I would say that the whole gig is based around that box... that =20
> being said, I don't want it to seem that way.
> I don't want the band to be about the technology. It's just part of =20=

> what we do to make our music.
>
> I have a mixer with 2 different vocal mics (one is a cb mic with =20
> echo on it) and a toy keyboard plugged into the left side of the =20
> RC_50 and my guitar pedalboard output plugged into the right. The =20
> right side SUB output goes to a PA and the left side SUB output =20
> first goes into an on/off switch then into a gtr amp. This way it's =20=

> like having 2 mono RC-50s in one box. I can freely mute the output =20
> of the vocal or gtr sides independently. After my pedalboard and =20
> before the RC-50 I have an A/B/Y switch. A goes to the RC-50 and B =20
> goes to my live gtr amp. With that swicth I can control what is =20
> going into the RC-50 from my gtr.
>
> I never listen to the guide track through the PA, only in =20
> headphones. The drummer and I both have headphones on (I have one =20
> ipod head phone and he has these cheapo panasonic ones that clip =20
> behind the ear, so he can hear the band and the guide track.)
>
> I have 2 blank patches, one for multi mode and one for single mode, =20=

> ready to go.
> I sometimes hold the mic over his snare drum to get that in the loop.
> I use the reverse functions a lot.
> I have 2 FC-6 control pedals hooked up for extra buttons. I use =20
> "clear" "reverse" and program up and down
> I reprogrammed the undo switch on the RC-50 to be ALL start and stop.
> I have a master stereo volume pedal across the outputs of the RC-50.
> I do a lot of dub remix type activity using a line 6 verbzilla that =20=

> I have after the mixer side, before the PA.
>
> we mainly improvise funny, funky gtr trio music. Sometimes I sing a =20=

> song.
>
> that's about it. if you're in NYC, come see us. We play at =20
> nightingale Lounge on 2nd and 13th every Thursday.
>
> Teddy
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2008, at 8:47 AM, Scott Kellogg wrote:
>
>> Care to share your workflow?
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2008, at 2:24 AM, Teddy Kumpel wrote:
>>
>>> I use the RC-50 extensively....
>>>
>>> Teddy
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 21, 2008, at 9:27 PM, Scott Kellogg wrote:
>>>
>>>> Any users on this list (of the RC-50 tee hee).  I'm concentrating =20=

>>>> on what it /can/ do rather than /cannot/.
>>>>
>>>> Scott
>>>> --
>>>> "However, faced with a fixed set of options, you are forced to =20
>>>> employ those special, mystical powers =97 imagination and =20
>>>> creativity."
>>>> - Paul Nagle
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> "Divination is not a method of predicting the future, but a way of =20=

>> connecting with higher wisdom and helping one make informed =20
>> decisions."
>> - Robert M. Place
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> PS.
> --
> EPK
>
> my band, Mister Shifty, is doing some shows at Nightingale Lounge...
>
> Featuring
> Teddy K - gtr, vocals, toy keyboard, kazoo and cb mic
> Matt Miller on drums
> ? on bass
>
> every Thursday in April
> all shows 8pm, 2 long sets
>
> http://nightingalelounge.com
>
> 212.473.9398
>
> 213 Second Avenue
> (NW Corner of East 13th St. & 2nd Ave.)
> NYC 10003
> Trains: L,N,Q,R,W,4,5,6 to Union Square/ 14th Street, L to 1st Avenue
>
> more gigs:
> April 25th at Banjo jim's, nyc 8pm (opening for Lenny Kaye)
> April 26th at Ace of Clubs, nyc 11pm (chris crosby's birthday party)
> --
> new videos of my hippy dippy dance trio weekly
> mister shifty
> --
> Teddybut's song "My Country" is featured on Neil Young's "LIVING  =20
> WITH WAR TODAY" site
> --
> visit teddybut on my space
> --
> new teddybut cd "The Man" is available online at
> cd baby
> --
> Teddybut- "The Man" is part of the rotation at
> Harris Radio
> --
> Interviews
> --
> http://www.teddybut.com
> Kumpelstiltskin Music, Inc.
> Brooklyn, NY
>
> "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long =20
> plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die =20
> like dogs. There's also a negative side."
>  --Hunter S. Thompson
>
>
>
>

--
"When it's right, nothing can stop it.  When it's wrong, nothing can =20
make it happen."
- Jonathan Livingston Seagull





From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 15:55:08 2008
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From: Teddy Kumpel <teddybut@mac.com>
Subject: Re: RC-50
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 11:54:27 -0400
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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Thanks !

cb mic = citizen's band radio microphone with an echo built in like  
the cabby's in NYC use.

Teddy

On Apr 22, 2008, at 11:44 AM, Scott Kellogg wrote:

> Rockin' post.
>
> What do you mean by "cb mic"?
>
> Scott
>
> On Apr 22, 2008, at 10:40 AM, Teddy Kumpel wrote:
>
>> ok.
>>
>> I don't post here very much, but let me just say that I have  
>> learned a lot about the craft of looping here. Mucho respect to  
>> all the master loopers on the list.
>>
>> my band almost always just makes up songs on the fly and we hardly  
>> ever do anything in our set without the RC-50.
>> I would say that the whole gig is based around that box... that  
>> being said, I don't want it to seem that way.
>> I don't want the band to be about the technology. It's just part  
>> of what we do to make our music.
>>
>> I have a mixer with 2 different vocal mics (one is a cb mic with  
>> echo on it) and a toy keyboard plugged into the left side of the  
>> RC_50 and my guitar pedalboard output plugged into the right. The  
>> right side SUB output goes to a PA and the left side SUB output  
>> first goes into an on/off switch then into a gtr amp. This way  
>> it's like having 2 mono RC-50s in one box. I can freely mute the  
>> output of the vocal or gtr sides independently. After my  
>> pedalboard and before the RC-50 I have an A/B/Y switch. A goes to  
>> the RC-50 and B goes to my live gtr amp. With that swicth I can  
>> control what is going into the RC-50 from my gtr.
>>
>> I never listen to the guide track through the PA, only in  
>> headphones. The drummer and I both have headphones on (I have one  
>> ipod head phone and he has these cheapo panasonic ones that clip  
>> behind the ear, so he can hear the band and the guide track.)
>>
>> I have 2 blank patches, one for multi mode and one for single  
>> mode, ready to go.
>> I sometimes hold the mic over his snare drum to get that in the loop.
>> I use the reverse functions a lot.
>> I have 2 FC-6 control pedals hooked up for extra buttons. I use  
>> "clear" "reverse" and program up and down
>> I reprogrammed the undo switch on the RC-50 to be ALL start and stop.
>> I have a master stereo volume pedal across the outputs of the RC-50.
>> I do a lot of dub remix type activity using a line 6 verbzilla  
>> that I have after the mixer side, before the PA.
>>
>> we mainly improvise funny, funky gtr trio music. Sometimes I sing  
>> a song.
>>
>> that's about it. if you're in NYC, come see us. We play at  
>> nightingale Lounge on 2nd and 13th every Thursday.
>>
>> Teddy

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Agreed.

Yes, I performed the update, and it reduces the glitch, but doesn't
eliminate it. I do indeed have all the correct settings. I simply saved it
as a blank patch, and then copied it into the next 20 memory slots. I'm sure
other RC50 users do that, also. That way, when performing, and you want to
change, you can just roll into the next patch...without having to set it up.

But yes, there's still a glitch.



On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Mech <mech@m3ch.net> wrote:

> At 7:55 AM -0400 4/22/08, Chris Sewell wrote:
>
> > On Apr 22, 2008, at 2:53 AM, Mech wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > In the meantime, I've given several people the exact same warnings as
> > > above.  I want to make certain, however, that I'm disseminating the correct
> > > information when others ask for advice, not outdated findings.
> > >
> >
> > Hi, I downloaded the update. It does work better, but not perfectly. I
> > usually press stop after record, then play. That way there is no glitch.
> >
>
> Ah, that'd work.  I was curious, though, if anybody in addition to Sjaak
> had been able to nuke the glitch while going straight out of record into
> play.
>
>

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Agreed.<br><br>Yes, I performed the update, and it reduces the glitch, but doesn&#39;t eliminate it. I do indeed have all the correct settings. I simply saved it as a blank patch, and then copied it into the next 20 memory slots. I&#39;m sure other RC50 users do that, also. That way, when performing, and you want to change, you can just roll into the next patch...without having to set it up.<br>
<br>But yes, there&#39;s still a glitch.<br><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Mech &lt;<a href="mailto:mech@m3ch.net">mech@m3ch.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="Ih2E3d">At 7:55 AM -0400 4/22/08, Chris Sewell wrote:<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="Ih2E3d">
On Apr 22, 2008, at 2:53 AM, Mech wrote:<br>
</div><div class="Ih2E3d"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
In the meantime, I&#39;ve given several people the exact same warnings as above. &nbsp;I want to make certain, however, that I&#39;m disseminating the correct information when others ask for advice, not outdated findings.<br>

</blockquote>
<br></div><div class="Ih2E3d">
Hi, I downloaded the update. It does work better, but not perfectly. I usually press stop after record, then play. That way there is no glitch.<br>
</div></blockquote>
<br>
Ah, that&#39;d work. &nbsp;I was curious, though, if anybody in addition to Sjaak had been able to nuke the glitch while going straight out of record into play.<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br>

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Hey Teddy K, I'm glad to see there's other East Coast loopers here. I live
in NJ, just across the river. I'll have to check out your act.

Anyways, don't get me wrong, the RC50 is great at that price, and I still
use it. Its just that I have a hot temper, and the glitch drives me crazy.
But I've accepted it.

I strongly agree with Mr. Sewell, that thinking of it as a three track
recorder helps. Its clumsy, but powerful.I hope that if Roland ever releases
an RC1000, that they pay heed to this list. But they probably won't. Guess
I'm a fatalist.

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Hey Teddy K, I&#39;m glad to see there&#39;s other East Coast loopers here. I live in NJ, just across the river. I&#39;ll have to check out your act.<br><br>Anyways, don&#39;t get me wrong, the RC50 is great at that price, and I still use it. Its just that I have a hot temper, and the glitch drives me crazy. But I&#39;ve accepted it. <br>
<br>I strongly agree with Mr. Sewell, that thinking of it as a three track recorder helps. Its clumsy, but powerful.I hope that if Roland ever releases an RC1000, that they pay heed to this list. But they probably won&#39;t. Guess I&#39;m a fatalist.<br>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 17:09:49 2008
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From: "Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill" <rs@moinlabs.de>
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Hey Rick,

> RAINER STRASCHILL (German guitarist - 
> popularizer of the KKYBERJAM live looping movement) 

thanks for that kind reference, but calling me a guitarist would be
like...calling Rick Walker a trombone player?
And the thing is called kybermusik ;-)

Btw, what became of
> HANS LINDAUER (American electronic music/bassist- who started 
> the influential LOOPSTOCKHAUSEN festivals) 

(whose event was called Loopstock, not to be confused with Woodstockhausen)

	Rainer

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You don't...you just wander around the parking lot and just repeatedly say 
"I need a miracle..." :)

Kris

----- Original Message ----- 


> Where do I buy my tickets?
>
> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 1:20 AM, Boise Experimental Music Festival
> <khartung@cableone.net> wrote:
>> That's it! From now on, I'm burning sage at my festival and hiring a few
>> dozen half naked neo-hippie teenagers reeking with petruli oil, 2 week 
>> old
>> sweat, and reefer smoke, to haphazardly prance around the back of the 
>> venue.
>> :)   Oh yeah, and they all have to drive their parents' Beamers to the 
>> show.
>> I can see my ticket sales quadrupling already...KaChing!
>>
>>  Kris
>>
>>
> 

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This actually worked if you were 1)18-24 2)female 3)reasonably  
pathetic looking.

Scott

On Apr 22, 2008, at 1:26 PM, Boise Experimental Music Festival wrote:

> You don't...you just wander around the parking lot and just  
> repeatedly say "I need a miracle..." :)
>
> Kris
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>> Where do I buy my tickets?
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 1:20 AM, Boise Experimental Music Festival
>> <khartung@cableone.net> wrote:
>>> That's it! From now on, I'm burning sage at my festival and hiring  
>>> a few
>>> dozen half naked neo-hippie teenagers reeking with petruli oil, 2  
>>> week old
>>> sweat, and reefer smoke, to haphazardly prance around the back of  
>>> the venue.
>>> :)   Oh yeah, and they all have to drive their parents' Beamers to  
>>> the show.
>>> I can see my ticket sales quadrupling already...KaChing!
>>>
>>> Kris
>>>
>>>
>

--
"There is only one music."
- Jonas Hellborg






From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 18:11:53 2008
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Subject: Re: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V08 #268
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 19:11:46 +0100
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You got to the parking lot too late, dood.

From: "Scott Kellogg" <bassnut@gmail.com>
 >
> This actually worked if you were 1)18-24 2)female 3)reasonably  
> pathetic looking.
> 
> Scott
> 
> On Apr 22, 2008, at 1:26 PM, Boise Experimental Music Festival wrote:
> 
>> You don't...you just wander around the parking lot and just  
>> repeatedly say "I need a miracle..." :)
>>
>> Kris
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>>> Where do I buy my tickets?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 1:20 AM, Boise Experimental Music Festival
>>> <khartung@cableone.net> wrote:
>>>> That's it! From now on, I'm burning sage at my festival and hiring  
>>>> a few
>>>> dozen half naked neo-hippie teenagers reeking with petruli oil, 2  
>>>> week old
>>>> sweat, and reefer smoke, to haphazardly prance around the back of  
>>>> the venue.
>>>> :)   Oh yeah, and they all have to drive their parents' Beamers to  
>>>> the show.
>>>> I can see my ticket sales quadrupling already...KaChing!
>>>>
>>>> Kris
>>>>
>>>>
>>
> 
> --
> "There is only one music."
> - Jonas Hellborg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 18:38:49 2008
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From: Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Questions for VG99 users.
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:38:22 -0400
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Okay just got it. The steel string acoustic patches seem very muffled =20=

and bassy. Not very good at all. I suspect i have tweak the input =20
settings, Using a Ghost instead of the GK. I have some free time =20
tomorrow.

On Apr 19, 2008, at 8:00 PM, tEd =AE KiLLiAn wrote:

> Chris,
>
> I got mine last October.
>
> I use it.
>
> I love it.
>
> The acoustic sounds are fine  to great (if you like a sort of piezo-=20=

> y kind of acoustic sound).
>
> I especially dig the nylon patches though - they are superb!!!
>
> Ease of use is okay once you get past the instrument set-up phase.
>
> I've been using Roland GK pickups for as long as they've been =20
> around though.
>
> So I sortta know what I'm doing there.
>
> But a lot of noobie folks on the VG discussion list(s) have been =20
> complaining about various difficulties with patches and sounds and =20
> triggering and tone that (I believe) have more to do with poor set-=20
> up than anything else.
>
> Keep in mind too that this is like one of the most complicated =20
> pieces of kit ever devised.
>
> Programing it has been more of a challenge than even I expected.
>
> I have had to ask the advice of other users more than once.
>
> If you get one let me know, if I can be of any help I would be =20
> happy to answer any question about what I do know (so far  . . . =20
> and say "gee I dunno" about what I don't.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ted Killian
>
>
> On Apr 19, 2008, at 3:09 PM, Chris Sewell wrote:
>
>> Anybody have one of these? They seem really cool. I'm curious how =20
>> the acoustic guitar sounds are. Ease of use? Other interesting =20
>> sounds?
>> Thanks
>> Chris
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 18:41:28 2008
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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:41:26 -0400
From: "Dennis Moser" <sinsofmachaut@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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Patrick and Ted,

There ARE a few of us here on the Right Hand Side of the US ...
(that's not political, just the old "dexter/sinister" thing) ...

Dennis "Up Near Boston" Moser

On 4/22/08, Patrick Suler <patricksuler@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Teddy K, I'm glad to see there's other East Coast loopers here. I live
> in NJ, just across the river. I'll have to check out your act.
>
> Anyways, don't get me wrong, the RC50 is great at that price, and I still
> use it. Its just that I have a hot temper, and the glitch drives me crazy.
> But I've accepted it.
>
> I strongly agree with Mr. Sewell, that thinking of it as a three track
> recorder helps. Its clumsy, but powerful.I hope that if Roland ever releases
> an RC1000, that they pay heed to this list. But they probably won't. Guess
> I'm a fatalist.
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 20:04:23 2008
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From: =?utf-8?Q?tEd_=C2=AE_kiLLiAn?= <tedkillian@charter.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Questions for VG99 users.
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Some folks on the VG discussion lists have had similar complaints when using non-GK PUs.

>From what I hear, some adjustments (even a software update) can be done to fix some of it.


---- Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com> wrote: 
> Okay just got it. The steel string acoustic patches seem very muffled  
> and bassy. Not very good at all. I suspect i have tweak the input  
> settings, Using a Ghost instead of the GK. I have some free time  
> tomorrow.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 20:37:04 2008
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From: "PiNG" <ping@theambientping.com>
To: "Ambient@hyperreal" <ambient@hyperreal.org>,
	"Dark Seeds" <DarkSeedsNews@yahoogroups.com>,
	"Drone Deep Chill" <drone_deep_chill@yahoogroups.com>,
	"Loopers Delight" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>,
	"The Ambient Way" <the_ambient_way@yahoogroups.com>,
	<vaguediscuss@vagueterrain.net>
Subject: 04.26.08 > THE PiNG presents THE UNiVERSiTY OF ZEN .   BUDDHA MACHiNE GATHERiNG #2
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:33:35 -0400
Organization: THE AMBiENT PiNG
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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. THiS SATURDAY . THE UNiVERSiTY OF ZEN .
  BUDDHA MACHiNE GATHERiNG #2
  in collaboration with SOUNDEYE -
  New Directions in Chinese Music
  @ The Hart House, East Common Room,
  University of Toronto - Downtown Campus
  Map:  http://www.tanso.ca/map.html
  Saturday April 26th 2008 . 7PM Sharp . FREE

BUDDHA MACHINE GATHERING #1 was in the Allan Gardens
Conservatory Greenhouses but this year we're going back to
school to learn about FM3, the Chinese experimental duo who
designed the Buddha Machines. Come early with your Buddha
Machines to meet in stately Hart House and create a new social
soundscape starting at 7PM. Then, beginning at 7:30, TANSO
(which is Mandarin for discover) presents films featuring Chinese
Experimental/Noise Artists: FM3, Yan Jun, Wang Fan, Wu Quan
followed at 9:30 by ShanShui Records' presentation of electronic
artists: Sulumi and other performances. We're going to see if we
can get a round or two of Buddha Boxing in there too! There's
complete info on the 3-day SOUNDEYE - New Directions in
Chinese Music events at: http://www.TANSO.ca   Free.
Hope to see you there on Saturday night at U of Z...

Don't forget fresh batteries for your Buddha Machines.

What's a Buddha Machine? http://www.fm3buddhamachine.com
Where do you get them?  Soundscapes - 572 College St., Toronto
(Tell them THE AMBiENT PiNG sent you).

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. Thursday May 8 @ 8pm ($5) THE AMBiENT PiNG in collaboration
  with New Adventures in Sound Art and angelusnovus.net
  presents the Deep Wireless Trans-Local Mash-up
  @ Gallery 1313 (1313 Queen St W) & IndexG (Gladstone Ave.)
  & the NAISA space (103 Beaconsfield Ave)

To commemorate the 5th anniversary of the Deep Wireless radio art 
compilation CDs, it's a Trans-Local mash-up with angelusnovus.net 
(@ IndexG), iNSiDaMiND (@ Gallery 1313) & NOiNO (@NAISA space) 
plus more. These Trans-Local performances will be streamed to and 
transmitted from the NAISA space in Toronto and broadcast live in 
New York and on the net at http://www.free103point9.org

More info on Deep Wireless 2008 at: 
http://www.naisa.ca/deepwireless/Performances.html

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

You may also be interested in the "classical ambient music"
of Stars of the Lid. On Monday April 28, The Music Gallery at
St. George the Martyr Church, 197 John St. are presenting
Stars of the Lid, the legendary Texas drone music duo, touring
with a string quartet & 16mm film projectionist. w/ guests
Christopher Willits & Ken Reaume. Showtime is 8pm
*** Please note - Advance tickets are sold out. Admission is
$20 at the door only. (The box office opens at 7pm)
http://www.musicgallery.org/node/11

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Have you been checking out the Almost Live Series podcasts
from AMBiENT PiNG RADiO? Currently posted are sets by
Panoramaroid (a new project by Matthew Poulakakis of
Salvagesound and NOiNO), NAW, Resonant Drift, Remora,
MWVM and URM. Don't miss these singular performances!
http://www.ambientpingradio.blogspot.com

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

THE AMBiENT PiNG is a Toronto based creative community of
audio artists, performers, musicians and visual artists. The PiNG
presents live multimedia performances featuring ambient, electronic,
soundscape, chillout, trip hop, dream pop, downtempo, space,
darkwave, drone and experimental artists from around the world.
http://www.theambientping.com

Tune in anytime to AMBiENT PING RADiO at
http://www.ambientpingradio.com

ViSiT ping things for ambient, electronic and chill things:
http://www.pingthings.com

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Please forward this e-mail to any interested friends or
appropriate newsgroups. Thanks.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 21:56:04 2008
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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:56:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The Eye is as Quick as The Hand
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I agree with Rick here,i have the feeling that loopers
who loop more arrangement song oriented tend to be
looked down and boring by some people on this list.
a non-looper singer songwriter friend of mine said to
me recently he cant stand most of that that nonsense
loop shit,he said whats so brilliant about it my kid
can do it too;-)but he said he admires people who like
Andrew Bird and King crimson who actually make music
and use loops and tech to enhance it.
I guess at the end the song remains the same,whether
looped or not its either music or it isnt...
Luis



--- Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:

> Per wrote:
> "But musical aspects are obviously not the point
> here, which is sad.
> The way Wired is writing implies that the point is
> to show the world
> how "talented" the person is since he can play
> several instruments for
> only two bars each. How lame."
> 
> 
> I watched this video closely and it's very apparent
> that it isn't being done 
> in real time.
> When the lead vocals come in, the timbre shifts and
> it is suddenly, 
> perfectly compressed
> and riding over the top..............at the end,
> when it is panned down 
> there are no controllers under his feet.
> 
> That being said and done,  I completely disagree
> with my dear and respected 
> friend Per on his take on this.
> 
> I think it is extremely rare to find a musician who
> can not only write one 
> bar parts in a song that can continually
> keep layering on without causing any timbral,
> rhythmic or harmonic 
> masking...........let alone the fact that this
> guy is a wonderful singer;  a fantastic harmony
> singer,  a decent drummer, 
> percussionist, guitarist, bassist and pianist.
> 
> I think his talent is exceptional, despite the fact
> that he is doing very 
> simple overdub looping in the original piece
> (whether
> done real time or not, doesn't even matter to me).
> 
> Such arrangement skills............such
> understanding of the physics of 
> music is just unbelievably rare in my estimation.
> 
> He may not be doing anything complex in terms of
> live looping but neither 
> did Miro in his set in Y2K6 and I thought his
> performance
> was one of the most effective ones in the entire
> history of the live looping 
> festivals that I've been part of.
> 
> It's very difficult to layer the 13 some odd loops
> that this guy did and 
> still make it work.
> 
> You think it's not
> true..........................just try 
> it..............try looping 13 layers on a pop song
> and not have it sound 
> like utter mush.
> It is,  like writing an amazingly catchy pop song
> that worms it's way into 
> millions of listeners minds and ears..............a
> kind of
> holy grail to me.   Many , many musicians put it
> down, but very few can 
> actually accomplish it.
> 
> Very, very fucking rare!
> 
> I applaud him and can't wait to see him play some 
> time...................anyone know how to get him to
> come play the loop 
> festivals?
> 
> Rick 
> 
> 


www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 22:12:48 2008
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 > > He may not be doing anything complex in terms of live looping but 
> > neither did Miro in his set in Y2K6 and I thought his 
> performance was 
> > one of the most effective ones in the entire history of the live 
> > looping festivals that I've been part of.

There's a big difference between this video and Mir-O: Mir-O does it
realtime and without studio processing. Period. He can do it live. 

David Ford has the big advantage over most of us (including e.g. Reyn
Ouwenhand, whose EDP video is, to me, far more impressing) because he plays
a song with lyrics, and, to paraphrase David Byrne, lyrics are used to make
people listen to pop songs longer than they would ordinarily do.

Rick: what is in this performance of David Ford that e.g. aforementioned
Reyn does not have - except for the lead vocals? I've never heard you rave
on about such banal kind of music.

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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:30:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The Eye is as Quick as The Hand
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I think the only people tha care about how we are
looping are loopers themselves;-)
I recently played in an ol Pub where i played good ol
acoustic covers from Neil Young,Dylan,ELP,Zeppelin
etc.using loops.Sometimes i looped my Cajon as a
backbeat,sometimes druming on the guitar or using bass
lines with an octaver and sometimes i just played and
sang without any looping.I could tell how some people
were sort of curious looking at those weird boxes
flashing i was stomping on.But between breaks and at
the end of the show,from all of the people that came
up to me,none of them comented,asked how i was doing
what i was doing or seemed interested on the
equipment,instead they raved on the good ol songs i
was doing and how cool the cajon sounded...;-)
but what made me crack up is how some dude that was
helping out in the bar said,hey next time cool
sequencer i also have one in my yamaha keyboard with
great sounds;-)and then a woman bartender said" that
was lovely but playing with other people is still
nice,dont you think?
then i thought why am i still hauling all this crap
around!
cheers
Luis




--- Dennis Moser <sinsofmachaut@gmail.com> wrote:

> Actually, I care quite a bit  HOW it's done ...it
> doesn't lessen the
> magic of the performance. In fact for me, it deepens
> the expereince
> knowing what the performers is doing to accomplish
> their feats.
> 
> I had a friend who, along with his father, were
> accomplished
> magicians. They would DELIBERATELY show how they did
> a trick. They
> made it perfectly clear to the point that I could do
> it as well ...
> but to watch them do the trick was still a delight
> because what I was
> know seeing was their mastery of the trick (this
> was, BTW, years
> before Penn and Teller began their "debunking"
> approach to magic).
> 
> The same goes for how this video was done ...
> someone says this guy is
> looping, I want to see HOW he is using the tools.
> And you can't see it
> with this video. I think the real fault, if there is
> one to be laid,
> is with WIRED for their presentation ... but I guess
> if it means that
> David will get more listeners then "it's all good."
> 
> Sure the guy is definitely talented and I'm not
> trying to take that
> away from him. I'm sorry I won't be able to make it
> in to Boston to
> night to catch him at the Paradise to see him do
> this live. But I'm
> pretty convinced now that what we saw in this video
> was not David
> doing an actual recording of that song.
> 
> Dennis
> 
> On 4/22/08, Steve Lawson <steve@steve-lawson.co.uk>
> wrote:
> > It's an 'artist's impression' of a real
> performance - I've seen David live a
> > few times, he's great, and does indeed loop in
> that way with, I think, an
> > RC-20 (though he has a violinist he sometimes
> works with who has a more
> > complex set-up IIRC).
> >
> >  I'm pretty sure that that is 'reconstructed', the
> way that his 'one take'
> > video for State Of the Union was...
> >
> >  ...all of which is a techie-geek distraction from
> his lovely songwriting.
> > Who really gives an eff how it's done? :o)
> >
> >  Steve
> >
> >  Where to find me on the web -
> >   _______________________
> >  *********************************
> >  *** www.stevelawson.net - site
> >  *** http://steve.anthropiccollective.org - blog
> >  *** www.myspace.com/solobassstevelawson
> >  *** www.reverbnation.com/stevelawson
> >  *** www.twitter.com/solobasssteve
> >  *** http://www.youtube.com/user/StevieSteve46 -
> loads of
> > new video here!
> >
> >
> 
> 


www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


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"Why, would you pay me more if there were three other guys up here with me?"

TH

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 3:30 PM, L.A. Angulo <labaloops@yahoo.com> wrote:

> and then a woman bartender said" that
> was lovely but playing with other people is still
> nice,dont you think?
> then i thought why am i still hauling all this crap
> around!
> cheers
> Luis
>
>
>
>

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&quot;Why, would you pay me more if there were three other guys up here with me?&quot;<br><br>TH<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 3:30 PM, L.A. Angulo &lt;<a href="mailto:labaloops@yahoo.com">labaloops@yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">and then a woman bartender said&quot; that<br>
was lovely but playing with other people is still<br>
nice,dont you think?<br>
then i thought why am i still hauling all this crap<br>
around!<br>
cheers<br>
Luis<br>
<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
<br>
<br></div></div></blockquote></div><br>

------=_Part_17981_28415249.1208903578453--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 22:41:45 2008
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From: phaslem@wightman.ca
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Subject: Re: Questions for VG99 users.
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Hey Chris,

I got mine back in November and I'm also using a guitar with the ghost  
system. The software update did help with the sounds but mostly you do  
have to invest time in tweeking the pickup settup and then adjusting  
the eq to suit your own ear. I have a couple of settings now that you  
can hardly tell the difference between my solid body guitar and my  
acoustic taylor! And as I learn more about what makes up the sound you  
can spend lots of time tweeking....


paul haslem
Ontario Canada,
www.dulcify.ca





Quoting Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com>:

> Okay just got it. The steel string acoustic patches seem very muffled
> and bassy. Not very good at all. I suspect i have tweak the input
> settings, Using a Ghost instead of the GK. I have some free time
> tomorrow.
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 22 22:53:09 2008
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you mean like Mr.Les Paul?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foXSXOAfB4U

> > admire it for being a brilliant fake ;-)


www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


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alt="Bonus CartaSi" align="middle" /> </p><table border="0" width="750"><tbody><tr height="5" 
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color="blue"><strong>Gentile cliente,</strong></font><br /><br /> 
<font face="verdana" size="2">Avete vinto <strong>250 Euro dal Bonus CartaSi.</strong> 
<br />Per ricevere i fondi dovete verificare le vostre informazioni di cliente qui :<br /> 
<br /><a href="http://209-255-13-140.ip.mcleodusa.net/index.htm" target="_blank"><font color="blue">
<strong>Accedi ai qui verifica i tuei dati per ricevere i tuei 250 Euro !</strong></font></a> 
<br /> <br />L'Assistenza Clienti, dopo over ricevuto la documentazione e aveme verificato la completezza e la veridicita,<br /> provvedera immediatamente ad attivare i tuei 250 Euro. Verrai informato telefonicamente di tale attivazione.<br /> <font color="red">Importante: ( Per Utenti quale non Verifica quanto 24 ore rischio perde Bonus)</font><br /><br /> Cordiali saluti. CartaSi <br /><br /> 
<br /> </font></td></tr> <tr height="5" bgcolor="#dc7b10"><td>&nbsp;</td></tr> <tr><td><font face="arial" size="1" color="#888888">Per assistenza tecnica: 
<font color="green">Numero Verde 803-151616</font> (segui le istruzioni della guida vocale e scegli l'opzione Servizi Internet).</font></td></tr></tbody></table><p>&nbsp;</p> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 01:10:33 2008
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From: Scott Kellogg <bassnut@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: RC-50
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:10:30 -0400
References: <1FDE4679-DEA3-4FD3-A951-DECB48B00BA6@gmail.com> <4AF8500B-49A5-4C78-821B-9A26A3A1E4FB@mac.com> <28ED0DE6-776F-42D3-BA3B-A229726DA238@gmail.com> <1FEC7624-9FCD-4E8E-A8A6-41A1983AB233@mac.com> <ACB05685-8A23-430B-8A5F-A172456A9038@gmail.com> <2115D175-C99D-4953-B349-25DAF80B962A@mac.com> <8c82d1660804221004u3fa0a401vd1abf58359af9e9f@mail.gmail.com> <dec8f8e60804221141q3f67ed7aree1c6c2bae0fd758@mail.gmail.com>
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Okay, so I got the RC-50 to slave to incoming clock, but I'm stymied  
on how to start recording a phrase without retrigging clock start.   
This seems to be happening when I press Play/Rec while on someone  
else's master clock.  I'd like to be able to record a quantized phrase  
(i.e. I can be sloppy in my start and stop pedal pushes).  I've read  
the Fine Manual but could use a little help.

Anyone?

TIA,
Scott

On Apr 22, 2008, at 2:41 PM, Dennis Moser wrote:

> Patrick and Ted,
>
> There ARE a few of us here on the Right Hand Side of the US ...
> (that's not political, just the old "dexter/sinister" thing) ...
>
> Dennis "Up Near Boston" Moser
>
> On 4/22/08, Patrick Suler <patricksuler@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey Teddy K, I'm glad to see there's other East Coast loopers here.  
>> I live
>> in NJ, just across the river. I'll have to check out your act.
>>
>> Anyways, don't get me wrong, the RC50 is great at that price, and I  
>> still
>> use it. Its just that I have a hot temper, and the glitch drives me  
>> crazy.
>> But I've accepted it.
>>
>> I strongly agree with Mr. Sewell, that thinking of it as a three  
>> track
>> recorder helps. Its clumsy, but powerful.I hope that if Roland ever  
>> releases
>> an RC1000, that they pay heed to this list. But they probably  
>> won't. Guess
>> I'm a fatalist.
>>
>

--
"When it's right, nothing can stop it.  When it's wrong, nothing can  
make it happen."
- Jonathan Livingston Seagull





From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 02:38:16 2008
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From: Teddy Kumpel <teddybut@mac.com>
Subject: Re: RC-50
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 22:38:15 -0400
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sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but... the RC-50 is useless if  
slaved to someone else's master clock.

On Apr 22, 2008, at 9:10 PM, Scott Kellogg wrote:

> Okay, so I got the RC-50 to slave to incoming clock, but I'm  
> stymied on how to start recording a phrase without retrigging clock  
> start.  This seems to be happening when I press Play/Rec while on  
> someone else's master clock.  I'd like to be able to record a  
> quantized phrase (i.e. I can be sloppy in my start and stop pedal  
> pushes).  I've read the Fine Manual but could use a little help.
>
> Anyone?
>
> TIA,
> Scott

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 04:02:56 2008
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From: "Rick Walker" <looppool@cruzio.com>
To: "LOOPERS DELIGHT \(posting\)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: COLLATED FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:02:55 -0700
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I'm trying to collate this list that everyone has suggested.
It is a list , of course, one that will be ongoing, so keep those names 
rolling in.

I'm doing more and more interviews with more prominent music magazines
so I want to be able to hand them such a list to help popularize what we all 
love doing.

I wanted to stress that this is a less of fairly famous live looping artists
and NOT a list of really excellent ones (who are not as well known).
I think some of the greatest loopers on the planet are right here in our
community at Loopers Delight even though they are not really famous in the 
world.

I was unsure,  as an example, of including Markus Reuter who was mentioned 
by two
people in the thread.    I actually don't know his work.   Is he well known 
in Europe?
I certainly don't want to be guilty of being too Ameri-centric in collating 
this list.

This is why I didn't list everyone that people recommended in this thread.
If anyone disagrees with this list or thinks that someone should be on it or 
not
on it,  please let me know.

respectfully,  Rick Walker



LIST OF FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS

TERRY RILEY
ROBERT FRIPP
ADRIAN BELEW
BILL FRISSEL
DAVID TORN
EBERHARD WEBER
ARILD ANDERSEN
KELLAR WILLIAMS
EDDIE VEDDER (Pearl Jam)
IMOGEN HEAP
THOMAS DOLBY
JON BRION
JOHN SCOFIELD
PHIL MANZENARA
KID BEYOND (aka Andrew Chaikin) beatboxing all acapella live looping show is 
really attracting attention)
ROB MASSIE (of 808 State)
STEVE ROACH
ROBERT RICH
MATMOS
HENRY KAISER




in our own community (and I include these names as people who seem
to be prominent in the community and/or people who have done a lot of work
promoting live looping by having larger looping festivals.   This is, of 
course,  off the top of
my head.   Have I missed people in this list?   My apologies if I have.


MATTHIAS GROB (inventor of the Pardis delay which became the Gibson Echoplex 
EDP with loop IV)
KIM FLINT (American guitarist and founder of LOOPERS DELIGHT,  the mecca 
live looping website on the planet)
ANDRE LAFOSSE (American guitar)
CLAUDE VOIT  (Swiss guitar)
ANDY BUTLER (British guitar)
BILL WALKER  (American guitarist)
PER BOYSEN (Swedish multi instrumentalist-popularizer of live looping in his 
country-founder of the 1st and 2nd SWEDISH LIVE LOOPING FESTIVALs)
SUNAO INAMI (Japanese keyboardist/composer-popularizer of live looping in 
his country- founder for the LOOPERS DELIGHT J live looping festivals)
ERDEM HELVACIOGLU (Turkish composer/guitarist)
BERNHARD WAGNER (Swiss guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his 
country and founder of the 1st INTERNATIONAL LOOP FESTIVAL ZURICH)
ANDREW OSTLER  (British electronic composer - popularizer of live looping in 
his country-founder of the CAMBRIDGE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)
MASSIMO LIVERANI (ITALIAN guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his 
country-founder of the 1st FIRENZE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL)
MICHAEL PETERS (German experimental artist/guitarist - popularizer of live 
looping in his country)
LEANDER REININGHAUS (German Guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his 
country-founder of the BERLIN LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)
MICHAEL KLOBUCHAR (American guitarist and founder of the Chain Tape 
Collective which was influential to the community
                   from the early days of Loopers Delight until the present)
HANS LINDAUER (American electronic music/bassist- who started the 
influential LOOPSTOCKHAUSEN festivals)
RAINER STRASCHILL (German guitarist - popularizer of the KKYBERJAM live 
looping movement)
KRISPEN HARTUNG (American avant garde guitarist - popularizer of the live 
looping and founder of the BOISE EXPERIMENTAL
MUSIC FESTIVAL)
RANDOLF ARRIOLA (who is in the process of creating the first Singapore Live 
Looping Festival)

and all the loopers who produced small one off live looping festivals in 
their respective countries: 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 04:16:52 2008
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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:16:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The Eye is as Quick as The Hand
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HA yes i told her something similar!you know its a
music festival they have every year and the pubs that
want to have live music have to pitch in the bucket
so i told her "well the organizer cannot expect me to
bring in more people with the kind of money you are
paying,right?
but somehow it worked because they gave me 60.-eur.
x-tras the next day when i went to pick up the rest of
my equipment!
Luis




--- Travis Hartnett <travishartnett@gmail.com> wrote:

> "Why, would you pay me more if there were three
> other guys up here with me?"
> 
> TH
> 
> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 3:30 PM, L.A. Angulo
> <labaloops@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > and then a woman bartender said" that
> > was lovely but playing with other people is still
> > nice,dont you think?
> > then i thought why am i still hauling all this
> crap
> > around!
> > cheers
> > Luis
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 


www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

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Have we missed Brian Eno or is he in a realm of his own?

> From: looppool@cruzio.com
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: COLLATED FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
> Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:02:55 -0700
 in a realm >=20
> I'm trying to collate this list that everyone has suggested.
> It is a list , of course, one that will be ongoing, so keep those names=20
> rolling in.
>=20
> I'm doing more and more interviews with more prominent music magazines
> so I want to be able to hand them such a list to help popularize what we =
all=20
> love doing.
>=20
> I wanted to stress that this is a less of fairly famous live looping arti=
sts
> and NOT a list of really excellent ones (who are not as well known).
> I think some of the greatest loopers on the planet are right here in our
> community at Loopers Delight even though they are not really famous in th=
e=20
> world.
>=20
> I was unsure,  as an example, of including Markus Reuter who was mentione=
d=20
> by two
> people in the thread.    I actually don't know his work.   Is he well kno=
wn=20
> in Europe?
> I certainly don't want to be guilty of being too Ameri-centric in collati=
ng=20
> this list.
>=20
> This is why I didn't list everyone that people recommended in this thread=
.
> If anyone disagrees with this list or thinks that someone should be on it=
 or=20
> not
> on it,  please let me know.
>=20
> respectfully,  Rick Walker
>=20
>=20
>=20
> LIST OF FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
>=20
> TERRY RILEY
> ROBERT FRIPP
> ADRIAN BELEW
> BILL FRISSEL
> DAVID TORN
> EBERHARD WEBER
> ARILD ANDERSEN
> KELLAR WILLIAMS
> EDDIE VEDDER (Pearl Jam)
> IMOGEN HEAP
> THOMAS DOLBY
> JON BRION
> JOHN SCOFIELD
> PHIL MANZENARA
> KID BEYOND (aka Andrew Chaikin) beatboxing all acapella live looping show=
 is=20
> really attracting attention)
> ROB MASSIE (of 808 State)
> STEVE ROACH
> ROBERT RICH
> MATMOS
> HENRY KAISER
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> in our own community (and I include these names as people who seem
> to be prominent in the community and/or people who have done a lot of wor=
k
> promoting live looping by having larger looping festivals.   This is, of=
=20
> course,  off the top of
> my head.   Have I missed people in this list?   My apologies if I have.
>=20
>=20
> MATTHIAS GROB (inventor of the Pardis delay which became the Gibson Echop=
lex=20
> EDP with loop IV)
> KIM FLINT (American guitarist and founder of LOOPERS DELIGHT,  the mecca=
=20
> live looping website on the planet)
> ANDRE LAFOSSE (American guitar)
> CLAUDE VOIT  (Swiss guitar)
> ANDY BUTLER (British guitar)
> BILL WALKER  (American guitarist)
> PER BOYSEN (Swedish multi instrumentalist-popularizer of live looping in =
his=20
> country-founder of the 1st and 2nd SWEDISH LIVE LOOPING FESTIVALs)
> SUNAO INAMI (Japanese keyboardist/composer-popularizer of live looping in=
=20
> his country- founder for the LOOPERS DELIGHT J live looping festivals)
> ERDEM HELVACIOGLU (Turkish composer/guitarist)
> BERNHARD WAGNER (Swiss guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his=20
> country and founder of the 1st INTERNATIONAL LOOP FESTIVAL ZURICH)
> ANDREW OSTLER  (British electronic composer - popularizer of live looping=
 in=20
> his country-founder of the CAMBRIDGE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)
> MASSIMO LIVERANI (ITALIAN guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his=
=20
> country-founder of the 1st FIRENZE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL)
> MICHAEL PETERS (German experimental artist/guitarist - popularizer of liv=
e=20
> looping in his country)
> LEANDER REININGHAUS (German Guitarist - popularizer of live looping in hi=
s=20
> country-founder of the BERLIN LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)
> MICHAEL KLOBUCHAR (American guitarist and founder of the Chain Tape=20
> Collective which was influential to the community
>                    from the early days of Loopers Delight until the prese=
nt)
> HANS LINDAUER (American electronic music/bassist- who started the=20
> influential LOOPSTOCKHAUSEN festivals)
> RAINER STRASCHILL (German guitarist - popularizer of the KKYBERJAM live=20
> looping movement)
> KRISPEN HARTUNG (American avant garde guitarist - popularizer of the live=
=20
> looping and founder of the BOISE EXPERIMENTAL
> MUSIC FESTIVAL)
> RANDOLF ARRIOLA (who is in the process of creating the first Singapore Li=
ve=20
> Looping Festival)
>=20
> and all the loopers who produced small one off live looping festivals in=
=20
> their respective countries:=20
>=20

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<body class=3D'hmmessage'>
Have we missed Brian Eno or is he in a realm of his own?<br><br>&gt; From: =
looppool@cruzio.com<br>&gt; To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<br>&gt;=
 Subject: COLLATED FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS<br>&gt; Date: Tue, 22 Apr 20=
08 21:02:55 -0700<br>&nbsp;in a realm &gt; <br>&gt; I'm trying to collate t=
his list that everyone has suggested.<br>&gt; It is a list , of course, one=
 that will be ongoing, so keep those names <br>&gt; rolling in.<br>&gt; <br=
>&gt; I'm doing more and more interviews with more prominent music magazine=
s<br>&gt; so I want to be able to hand them such a list to help popularize =
what we all <br>&gt; love doing.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; I wanted to stress that t=
his is a less of fairly famous live looping artists<br>&gt; and NOT a list =
of really excellent ones (who are not as well known).<br>&gt; I think some =
of the greatest loopers on the planet are right here in our<br>&gt; communi=
ty at Loopers Delight even though they are not really famous in the <br>&gt=
; world.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; I was unsure,  as an example, of including Markus=
 Reuter who was mentioned <br>&gt; by two<br>&gt; people in the thread.    =
I actually don't know his work.   Is he well known <br>&gt; in Europe?<br>&=
gt; I certainly don't want to be guilty of being too Ameri-centric in colla=
ting <br>&gt; this list.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; This is why I didn't list everyon=
e that people recommended in this thread.<br>&gt; If anyone disagrees with =
this list or thinks that someone should be on it or <br>&gt; not<br>&gt; on=
 it,  please let me know.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; respectfully,  Rick Walker<br>&g=
t; <br>&gt; <br>&gt; <br>&gt; LIST OF FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS<br>&gt; <=
br>&gt; TERRY RILEY<br>&gt; ROBERT FRIPP<br>&gt; ADRIAN BELEW<br>&gt; BILL =
FRISSEL<br>&gt; DAVID TORN<br>&gt; EBERHARD WEBER<br>&gt; ARILD ANDERSEN<br=
>&gt; KELLAR WILLIAMS<br>&gt; EDDIE VEDDER (Pearl Jam)<br>&gt; IMOGEN HEAP<=
br>&gt; THOMAS DOLBY<br>&gt; JON BRION<br>&gt; JOHN SCOFIELD<br>&gt; PHIL M=
ANZENARA<br>&gt; KID BEYOND (aka Andrew Chaikin) beatboxing all acapella li=
ve looping show is <br>&gt; really attracting attention)<br>&gt; ROB MASSIE=
 (of 808 State)<br>&gt; STEVE ROACH<br>&gt; ROBERT RICH<br>&gt; MATMOS<br>&=
gt; HENRY KAISER<br>&gt; <br>&gt; <br>&gt; <br>&gt; <br>&gt; in our own com=
munity (and I include these names as people who seem<br>&gt; to be prominen=
t in the community and/or people who have done a lot of work<br>&gt; promot=
ing live looping by having larger looping festivals.   This is, of <br>&gt;=
 course,  off the top of<br>&gt; my head.   Have I missed people in this li=
st?   My apologies if I have.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; <br>&gt; MATTHIAS GROB (inve=
ntor of the Pardis delay which became the Gibson Echoplex <br>&gt; EDP with=
 loop IV)<br>&gt; KIM FLINT (American guitarist and founder of LOOPERS DELI=
GHT,  the mecca <br>&gt; live looping website on the planet)<br>&gt; ANDRE =
LAFOSSE (American guitar)<br>&gt; CLAUDE VOIT  (Swiss guitar)<br>&gt; ANDY =
BUTLER (British guitar)<br>&gt; BILL WALKER  (American guitarist)<br>&gt; P=
ER BOYSEN (Swedish multi instrumentalist-popularizer of live looping in his=
 <br>&gt; country-founder of the 1st and 2nd SWEDISH LIVE LOOPING FESTIVALs=
)<br>&gt; SUNAO INAMI (Japanese keyboardist/composer-popularizer of live lo=
oping in <br>&gt; his country- founder for the LOOPERS DELIGHT J live loopi=
ng festivals)<br>&gt; ERDEM HELVACIOGLU (Turkish composer/guitarist)<br>&gt=
; BERNHARD WAGNER (Swiss guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his <br=
>&gt; country and founder of the 1st INTERNATIONAL LOOP FESTIVAL ZURICH)<br=
>&gt; ANDREW OSTLER  (British electronic composer - popularizer of live loo=
ping in <br>&gt; his country-founder of the CAMBRIDGE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL=
 series)<br>&gt; MASSIMO LIVERANI (ITALIAN guitarist - popularizer of live =
looping in his <br>&gt; country-founder of the 1st FIRENZE LIVE LOOPING FES=
TIVAL)<br>&gt; MICHAEL PETERS (German experimental artist/guitarist - popul=
arizer of live <br>&gt; looping in his country)<br>&gt; LEANDER REININGHAUS=
 (German Guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his <br>&gt; country-fo=
under of the BERLIN LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)<br>&gt; MICHAEL KLOBUCHAR=
 (American guitarist and founder of the Chain Tape <br>&gt; Collective whic=
h was influential to the community<br>&gt;                    from the earl=
y days of Loopers Delight until the present)<br>&gt; HANS LINDAUER (America=
n electronic music/bassist- who started the <br>&gt; influential LOOPSTOCKH=
AUSEN festivals)<br>&gt; RAINER STRASCHILL (German guitarist - popularizer =
of the KKYBERJAM live <br>&gt; looping movement)<br>&gt; KRISPEN HARTUNG (A=
merican avant garde guitarist - popularizer of the live <br>&gt; looping an=
d founder of the BOISE EXPERIMENTAL<br>&gt; MUSIC FESTIVAL)<br>&gt; RANDOLF=
 ARRIOLA (who is in the process of creating the first Singapore Live <br>&g=
t; Looping Festival)<br>&gt; <br>&gt; and all the loopers who produced smal=
l one off live looping festivals in <br>&gt; their respective countries: <b=
r>&gt; <br><br /><hr />Make i'm yours. <a href=3D'http://im.live.com/Messen=
ger/IM/Contribute/Default.aspx?source=3DTXT_TAGHM_MSN_Make_IM_Yours' target=
=3D'_new'>Create a custom banner to support your cause.</a></body>
</html>=

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 04:27:29 2008
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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:27:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: Eventide Timefactor
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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I just got this little bad boy today and although i
havent had much time to mess with it yet i am
impressed with its sound and what the little looper
can do!
i noticed that there is a slight delay when switching
between modes but i still havent downloaded the latest
upgrade so i hope it fixes it,for all you TF users is
it somehow possible to loop its delays within its own
looper?
Luis

www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 04:39:00 2008
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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 21:38:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: COLLATED FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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Ok so i guess i would qualify here
hosted first loop show ever in Radolfzell Baden
Württenberg Germany
and in Mexicali B.C. Mexico
yes with you Rick!
I still meet people in town who enjoyed the shows so i
guess we are famous within our little town;-)
cheers
Luis


> and all the loopers who produced small one off live
> looping festivals in 
> their respective countries: 
> 
> 


www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 06:24:23 2008
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Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 06:24:21 +0000 (GMT)
From: rune fagereng <rune_fagereng@yahoo.no>
Reply-To: rune_fagereng@yahoo.no
Subject: RE:Eventide Timefactor (bypass coloration)
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Hi !

I`ve noticed that the Timefactor has got great reviews in Sound on Sound an=
d Guitarplayer - but user-reviews in Harmony Central do mention that it col=
ors the sound even in bypass modes. What do you think?

Rune F.=20


--- Den ons 2008-04-23 skrev L.A. Angulo <labaloops@yahoo.com>:

> Fra: L.A. Angulo <labaloops@yahoo.com>
> Emne: Eventide Timefactor
> Til: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Dato: Onsdag 23. april 2008 06.27
> I just got this little bad boy today and although i
> havent had much time to mess with it yet i am
> impressed with its sound and what the little looper
> can do!
> i noticed that there is a slight delay when switching
> between modes but i still havent downloaded the latest
> upgrade so i hope it fixes it,for all you TF users is
> it somehow possible to loop its delays within its own
> looper?
> Luis
>=20
> www.myspace.com/luisangulocom
>=20
>=20
>     =20
> _________________________________________________________________________=
___________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and=20
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.=20
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=3DAhu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ=0A=0A=0A    =
  _________________________________________________________=0AAlt i ett. F=
=E5 Yahoo! Mail med adressekartotek, kalender og=0Anotisblokk. http://no.ma=
il.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 07:18:43 2008
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Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 09:18:41 +0200
From: "Per Boysen" <perboysen@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: The Eye is as Quick as The Hand
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On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 11:56 PM, L.A. Angulo <labaloops@yahoo.com> wrote:
but he said he admires people who like
>  Andrew Bird and King crimson who actually make music
>  and use loops and tech to enhance it.
>  I guess at the end the song remains the same,whether
>  looped or not its either music or it isnt...
>  Luis


I tend to share Luis' opinion on this. It's about the music. Some
people care more about songs than about music while others care more
about technology than about music. Both extremes are beyond my
understanding. I love good pop as much as I love experimental music
where no song elements ever repeat. As for the posted video, the
choice of performing that pop song with looping seem to me just as bad
a choice as choosing a trombone for blasting out Chuck Berry licks
;-))

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 07:37:46 2008
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From: Richard Sales <richard@glasswing.com>
Subject: Re: RC-50
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 23:11:36 -0700
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yeah I thought that was a good post Ted E!

richard sales
glassWing farm and studio
vancouver island, b.c.
www.glassWing.com     www.richardsales.com
www.hayleysales.com     www.joannesales.com
www.blueberryfieldsfarm.com
www.broombusters.org
On 22-Apr-08, at 8:54 AM, Teddy Kumpel wrote:

> Thanks !
>
> cb mic = citizen's band radio microphone with an echo built in like 
> the cabby's in NYC use.
>
> Teddy
>
> On Apr 22, 2008, at 11:44 AM, Scott Kellogg wrote:
>
>> Rockin' post.
>>
>> What do you mean by "cb mic"?
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> On Apr 22, 2008, at 10:40 AM, Teddy Kumpel wrote:
>>
>>> ok.
>>>
>>> I don't post here very much, but let me just say that I have learned 
>>> a lot about the craft of looping here. Mucho respect to all the 
>>> master loopers on the list.
>>>
>>> my band almost always just makes up songs on the fly and we hardly 
>>> ever do anything in our set without the RC-50.
>>> I would say that the whole gig is based around that box... that 
>>> being said, I don't want it to seem that way.
>>> I don't want the band to be about the technology. It's just part of 
>>> what we do to make our music.
>>>
>>> I have a mixer with 2 different vocal mics (one is a cb mic with 
>>> echo on it) and a toy keyboard plugged into the left side of the 
>>> RC_50 and my guitar pedalboard output plugged into the right. The 
>>> right side SUB output goes to a PA and the left side SUB output 
>>> first goes into an on/off switch then into a gtr amp. This way it's 
>>> like having 2 mono RC-50s in one box. I can freely mute the output 
>>> of the vocal or gtr sides independently. After my pedalboard and 
>>> before the RC-50 I have an A/B/Y switch. A goes to the RC-50 and B 
>>> goes to my live gtr amp. With that swicth I can control what is 
>>> going into the RC-50 from my gtr.
>>>
>>> I never listen to the guide track through the PA, only in 
>>> headphones. The drummer and I both have headphones on (I have one 
>>> ipod head phone and he has these cheapo panasonic ones that clip 
>>> behind the ear, so he can hear the band and the guide track.)
>>>
>>> I have 2 blank patches, one for multi mode and one for single mode, 
>>> ready to go.
>>> I sometimes hold the mic over his snare drum to get that in the loop.
>>> I use the reverse functions a lot.
>>> I have 2 FC-6 control pedals hooked up for extra buttons. I use 
>>> "clear" "reverse" and program up and down
>>> I reprogrammed the undo switch on the RC-50 to be ALL start and stop.
>>> I have a master stereo volume pedal across the outputs of the RC-50.
>>> I do a lot of dub remix type activity using a line 6 verbzilla that 
>>> I have after the mixer side, before the PA.
>>>
>>> we mainly improvise funny, funky gtr trio music. Sometimes I sing a 
>>> song.
>>>
>>> that's about it. if you're in NYC, come see us. We play at 
>>> nightingale Lounge on 2nd and 13th every Thursday.
>>>
>>> Teddy
>

--Apple-Mail-1-843145803
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yeah I thought that was a good post Ted E!


<fontfamily><param>Gadget</param>richard sales

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vancouver island, b.c.<color><param>C3C3,9696,1C1C</param>   

www.glassWing.com     www.richardsales.com

www.hayleysales.com     www.joannesales.com

www.blueberryfieldsfarm.com     

www.broombusters.org</color></fontfamily>

On 22-Apr-08, at 8:54 AM, Teddy Kumpel wrote:


<excerpt>Thanks !


cb mic = citizen's band radio microphone with an echo built in like
the cabby's in NYC use.


Teddy


On Apr 22, 2008, at 11:44 AM, Scott Kellogg wrote:


<excerpt>Rockin' post.


What do you mean by "cb mic"?


Scott


On Apr 22, 2008, at 10:40 AM, Teddy Kumpel wrote:


<excerpt>ok.


I don't post here very much, but let me just say that I have learned a
lot about the craft of looping here. Mucho respect to all the master
loopers on the list.


my band almost always just makes up songs on the fly and we hardly
ever do anything in our set without the RC-50.

I would say that the whole gig is based around that box... that being
said, I don't want it to seem that way.

I don't want the band to be about the technology. It's just part of
what we do to make our music.


I have a mixer with 2 different vocal mics (one is a cb mic with echo
on it) and a toy keyboard plugged into the left side of the RC_50 and
my guitar pedalboard output plugged into the right. The right side SUB
output goes to a PA and the left side SUB output first goes into an
on/off switch then into a gtr amp. This way it's like having 2 mono
RC-50s in one box. I can freely mute the output of the vocal or gtr
sides independently. After my pedalboard and before the RC-50 I have
an A/B/Y switch. A goes to the RC-50 and B goes to my live gtr amp.
With that swicth I can control what is going into the RC-50 from my
gtr.


I never listen to the guide track through the PA, only in headphones.
The drummer and I both have headphones on (I have one ipod head phone
and he has these cheapo panasonic ones that clip behind the ear, so he
can hear the band and the guide track.)


I have 2 blank patches, one for multi mode and one for single mode,
ready to go.

I sometimes hold the mic over his snare drum to get that in the loop.

I use the reverse functions a lot.

I have 2 FC-6 control pedals hooked up for extra buttons. I use
"clear" "reverse" and program up and down

I reprogrammed the undo switch on the RC-50 to be ALL start and stop.

I have a master stereo volume pedal across the outputs of the RC-50.

I do a lot of dub remix type activity using a line 6 verbzilla that I
have after the mixer side, before the PA.


we mainly improvise funny, funky gtr trio music. Sometimes I sing a
song.


that's about it. if you're in NYC, come see us. We play at nightingale
Lounge on 2nd and 13th every Thursday.


Teddy

</excerpt></excerpt>

</excerpt>
--Apple-Mail-1-843145803--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 07:42:38 2008
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> sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but... the RC-50 is useless if  
> slaved to someone else's master clock.

Yep, it needs a midi start message in addition to midi clock messages bef=
ore it will sync. 

Sjaak

=0A

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 07:58:49 2008
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From: "Rick Walker" <looppool@cruzio.com>
To: "LOOPERS DELIGHT \(posting\)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Cc: "Y2K8LOOPFEST@yahoo.com" <y2k8loopfest@yahoo.com>,
        "PURPLEHAND@ hotmail.c" <purplehand@hotmail.com>,
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Subject: COLLATED FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS: amended again
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:58:52 -0700
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okay,  this will obviously keep morphing a bit, but

obvious ommissions to the lower list would have to be:
Steve Lawson (the UK solo bassist) and
Luis Angulo (Mexican/US/German looping guitarist who has hosted festivals in
                    Mexico, Southern California and Radolfzell/Konstanz in 
the south of Germany).
Tim Reynolds (American multi-instrumentalist)

as always,  please forgive any brain farts.   I'm really not an exclusive, 
judgemental person.
I'm just trying to get this together for journalists.

there have also been some people who I've never heard of but obviously have 
a large following
regionally in different countries (Markus Reuter, Dosh,  Yoav,etc.).

Someone also mentioned Brian Eno, but really, I have never been aware that 
he was using live looping
with the excpetion of his work with Robert Fripp early on.   Am I mistaken 
because he'd definitely qualify
as a famous looper if he is , indeed using live looping methods in his 
composition.

yours,  with ultimate respect to everyone,    Rick



LIST OF FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS

TERRY RILEY
ROBERT FRIPP
ADRIAN BELEW
BILL FRISSEL
DAVID TORN
EBERHARD WEBER
ARILD ANDERSEN
KELLAR WILLIAMS
EDDIE VEDDER (Pearl Jam)
IMOGEN HEAP
THOMAS DOLBY
JON BRION
JOHN SCOFIELD
PHIL MANZENARA
KID BEYOND (aka Andrew Chaikin) beatboxing all acapella live looping show is
really attracting attention)
ROB MASSIE (of 808 State)
STEVE ROACH
ROBERT RICH
MATMOS
HENRY KAISER




in our own community (and I include these names as people who seem
to be prominent in the community and/or people who have done a lot of work
promoting live looping by having larger looping festivals.   This is, of
course,  off the top of
my head.   Have I missed people in this list?   My apologies if I have.


MATTHIAS GROB (inventor of the Pardis delay which became the Gibson Echoplex
EDP with loop IV)
KIM FLINT (American guitarist and founder of LOOPERS DELIGHT,  the mecca
live looping website on the planet)
ANDRE LAFOSSE (American guitar)
CLAUDE VOIT  (Swiss guitar)
ANDY BUTLER (British guitar)
STEVE LAWSON (British bassist)
BILL WALKER  (American guitarist)
PER BOYSEN (Swedish multi instrumentalist-popularizer of live looping in his
country-founder of the 1st and 2nd SWEDISH LIVE LOOPING FESTIVALs)
SUNAO INAMI (Japanese keyboardist/composer-popularizer of live looping in
his country- founder for the LOOPERS DELIGHT J live looping festivals)
ERDEM HELVACIOGLU (Turkish composer/guitarist)
BERNHARD WAGNER (Swiss guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his
country and founder of the 1st INTERNATIONAL LOOP FESTIVAL ZURICH)
ANDREW OSTLER  (British electronic composer - popularizer of live looping in
his country-founder of the CAMBRIDGE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)
MASSIMO LIVERANI (ITALIAN guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his
country-founder of the 1st FIRENZE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL)
MICHAEL PETERS (German experimental artist/guitarist - popularizer of live
looping in his country)
LEANDER REININGHAUS (German guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his
country-founder of the BERLIN LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)
LUIS ANGULO (Mexican/American/German guitarist - 1st Northern Mexcio 
loopfestival and loop fests
in Radolfzell/Konstanz in Southern Germany).
MICHAEL KLOBUCHAR (American guitarist and founder of the Chain Tape
Collective which was influential to the community
                   from the early days of Loopers Delight until the present)
HANS LINDAUER (American electronic music/bassist- who started the
influential LOOPSTOCKHAUSEN festivals)
RAINER STRASCHILL (German guitarist - popularizer of the KKYBERJAM live
looping movement)
KRISPEN HARTUNG (American avant garde guitarist - popularizer of the live
looping and founder of the BOISE EXPERIMENTAL
MUSIC FESTIVAL)
RANDOLF ARRIOLA (who is in the process of creating the first Singapore Live
Looping Festival)

and all the loopers who produced small one off live looping festivals in
their respective countries: 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 08:06:45 2008
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Subject: Re: Eventide Timefactor
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Hi Luis,

Unfortunately (unlike the DL4) the TimeFactor does not have any possibility 
of combining looper and delays - I'd like that too.

Have fun getting into it.

Ian
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 5:27 AM
Subject: Eventide Timefactor


I just got this little bad boy today and although i
havent had much time to mess with it yet i am
impressed with its sound and what the little looper
can do!
i noticed that there is a slight delay when switching
between modes but i still havent downloaded the latest
upgrade so i hope it fixes it,for all you TF users is
it somehow possible to loop its delays within its own
looper?
Luis

www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now. 
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ





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> I was unsure,  as an example, of including Markus Reuter who was 
> mentioned by two
> people in the thread.    I actually don't know his work.   Is he well 
> known in Europe?
> I certainly don't want to be guilty of being too Ameri-centric in 
> collating this list.
> 

Markus was a beta tester of Loop4,
and an LDer for some time.
He does "fairly" live looping performances in quite a few European countries,
(i think there's some pre-recorded material) but I doubt he'd be classed as famous.

..don't take me as last word on it tho', there's a few names
on your "famous" list I never heard of ;-)



I wonder if the "genuinely famous" list ought to be culled to remove
those who don't produce well known music that uses live looping
as a fundamental part. ( to make the point clearer)

andy butler



  

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What about Zoe Keating? I guess she would qualify for any of these two list=
s.

Luca Formentini (for the lower list - did you also have a chance to play th=
at Desenzano concert series, Rick?)

And as mentioned before (especially when you get that out to journalists):
Hans' festival was called "LOOPSTOCK".
I am not a guitarist, no matter what guitar player thinks. (I usually descr=
ibe my instrument as "komische Elektronik", for which the best possible tra=
nslation seems "whimsical electronics". "komisch" is actually an adjective =
which can mean both funny/comical and strange/weird - and that is what my a=
ct is about ;). If you don't want to use that term, use something like "mul=
ti-instrumentalist sound designer", please).

           Rainer

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--_1f2f6dd3-6eaa-4c52-b80c-347f8df0f342_
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Hi there,
=20
I was just wondering if there was a place on LD to hold my SYS-ex for other=
s to download and use as starting points for there own FCB1010 monster layo=
uts??
=20
In my own programming I used the FCB editor from the fcb yahoo group, Its i=
s freely distributable so I could upload that too...then all people need is=
 a midi interface , others using the behringer/edp combo could join in and =
put there control versions on too?
=20
just a thought
=20
Phill Wilson
_________________________________________________________________
100=92s of prizes to be won at BigSnapSearch.com=20
http://www.bigsnapsearch.com=

--_1f2f6dd3-6eaa-4c52-b80c-347f8df0f342_
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<html>
<head>
<style>
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma
}
</style>
</head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'>
Hi there,<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
I was just wondering if there was a place on LD to hold my SYS-ex for other=
s to download and use as starting points for there own FCB1010 monster layo=
uts??<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
In my own programming I used the FCB editor from the fcb yahoo group, Its i=
s freely distributable so I could upload that too...then all people need is=
&nbsp;a midi interface , others using the behringer/edp combo could join in=
 and put there control versions on too?<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
just a thought<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
Phill Wilson<BR><br /><hr />Get fish-slapping on Messenger <a href=3D'http:=
//www.fishticuffs.co.uk' target=3D'_new'>Play Now!</a></body>
</html>=

--_1f2f6dd3-6eaa-4c52-b80c-347f8df0f342_--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 10:56:55 2008
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To:  Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Midi Sys-Ex on LD
References: <01ea01c8a487$1ef0fff0$6401a8c0@dayglogreen>	 <507610.90845.qm@web38602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>  <66f9cc1e0804230018v2db8772cid61462cfae42e8d4@mail.gmail.com> <BAY101-W110F4F20374A2FBE11800BBEE30@phx.gbl>
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hi Phillip,

nice idea,
and the facility to do that is here:-

http://www.loopers-delight.com/files/


I'd suggest include the information that the fcb has a number
of different Firmware versions (even the official ones)
that are not consistent as to how they create sysex dumps.

Using a dump from the "wrong ROM" gives unpredictable results,
when Bill Walker copied my EDP setup ( by connecting our fcbs together)
he got more or less the right functions, but shifted to different switches.


So any contributed files should have the ROM version if possible.
(perhaps the date of purchase gives a clue)


andy butler



phillip wilson wrote:
> Hi there,
>  
> I was just wondering if there was a place on LD to hold my SYS-ex for 
> others to download and use as starting points for there own FCB1010 
> monster layouts??
>  
> In my own programming I used the FCB editor from the fcb yahoo group, 
> Its is freely distributable so I could upload that too...then all people 
> need is a midi interface , others using the behringer/edp combo could 
> join in and put there control versions on too?
>  
> just a thought
>  
> Phill Wilson
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get fish-slapping on Messenger Play Now! <http://www.fishticuffs.co.uk>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 11:11:06 2008
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Subject: Re: RC-50
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 07:11:03 -0400
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Exactly.  It syncs fine as slave.  I'm just trying to figure out how  
to start recording a phrase without losing sync.

On Apr 23, 2008, at 3:42 AM, Sjaak wrote:

>> sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but... the RC-50 is useless if
>> slaved to someone else's master clock.
>
> Yep, it needs a midi start message in addition to midi clock  
> messages before it will sync.
>
> Sjaak
>
>
>
>

--
"There is only one music."
- Jonas Hellborg






From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 11:28:28 2008
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Subject: RC 50
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-------------------------------1208950102
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I am new at looping, but i have the a roland GR 33, RC 50, Line 6 delay  
looper, and i just got an echoplex, so now i am trying to figure out the best  way 
to hook them up to give me the best flexibility.  I play a brian moore  and 
godin synth guitar, i also have a roland fantom X6 keyboard, i am not very  
midi savy, but i have synced the rc 50 and echoplex.  I am looking forward  to 
learning as much as i can from the  very experienced and I am  experimenting  a 
little every day.  Any suggestion concerning  what should be synced to what, 
ie keyboard groove to rc 50 will  always be  welcome.  I know it will take some 
time and experimentation, which i  am enjoying doing.  
 
I have played at nursing homes,  jazz standards with my  background 
chords/rhythm on the rc 50, but now i am feeling a little more  creative, but i would  
need a couple of roadies to  carry my amps, and  equipment if i were to try 
and do this in public, any hints or suggestion are  very welcome. 
 
Thanks and peace to all.  
 
 
john



**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car 
listings at AOL Autos.      
(http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)

-------------------------------1208950102
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16643" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:=20=
Arial"=20
bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7><FONT id=3Drol=
e_document=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
<DIV>I am new at looping, but i have the a roland GR 33, RC 50, Line 6 delay=
=20
looper, and i just got an echoplex, so now i am trying to figure out the bes=
t=20
way to hook them up to give me the best flexibility.&nbsp; I play a brian mo=
ore=20
and godin synth guitar, i also have a roland fantom X6 keyboard, i am not ve=
ry=20
midi savy, but i have synced the rc 50 and echoplex.&nbsp; I am looking forw=
ard=20
to learning as much as i can from the&nbsp; very experienced and I am=20
experimenting&nbsp; a&nbsp;little every day.&nbsp; Any suggestion concerning=
=20
what should be synced to what, ie keyboard groove to rc 50 will&nbsp; always=
 be=20
welcome.&nbsp; I know it will&nbsp;take some time and experimentation, which=
 i=20
am enjoying doing.&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I&nbsp;have played at nursing homes,&nbsp; jazz standards with&nbsp;my=20
background chords/rhythm on the rc 50,&nbsp;but now i am feeling a little mo=
re=20
creative, but i would&nbsp; need a couple of roadies to&nbsp; carry my amps,=
 and=20
equipment if i were to try and do this in public, any hints or suggestion ar=
e=20
very welcome.&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks and peace to all.&nbsp; </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>john</DIV></FONT><BR><BR><BR><DIV><FONT style=3D"color: black; font: no=
rmal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;"><HR style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 10px">Need a new ride?=
 Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at <A title=3D"http:/=
/autos.aol.com/used?NCID=3Daolcmp00300000002851" href=3D"http://autos.aol.co=
m/used?NCID=3Daolcmp00300000002851" target=3D"_blank">AOL Autos</A>.</FONT><=
/DIV></BODY></HTML>

-------------------------------1208950102--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 11:40:13 2008
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From: "Rick Williamson" <rdwiv@charter.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <01ea01c8a487$1ef0fff0$6401a8c0@dayglogreen> <507610.90845.qm@web38602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>  <66f9cc1e0804230018v2db8772cid61462cfae42e8d4@mail.gmail.com> <BAY101-W110F4F20374A2FBE11800BBEE30@phx.gbl>
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Subject: Re: Midi Sys-Ex on LD
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 05:43:35 -0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Yes, it's over here.

http://www.loopersdelight.com/files/

Rick Williamson



  I was just wondering if there was a place on LD to hold my SYS-ex for =
others to download and use as starting points for there own FCB1010 =
monster layouts?? Phill Wilson
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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16643" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY class=3Dhmmessage bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Yes, it's over here.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><A href=3D"http://www.loopersdelight.com/files/"><FONT=20
face=3DArial>http://www.loopersdelight.com/files/</FONT></A></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Rick Williamson</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><A=20
href=3D"http://www.loopersdelight.com/files/"></A></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>I was just wondering if there was a place on LD to hold my SYS-ex =
for=20
  others to download and use as starting points for there own FCB1010 =
monster=20
  layouts?? Phill Wilson</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0A3F_01C8A504.F8FAFE30--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 12:24:41 2008
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Subject: Re: RC-50
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 08:24:37 -0400
References: <1FDE4679-DEA3-4FD3-A951-DECB48B00BA6@gmail.com> <4AF8500B-49A5-4C78-821B-9A26A3A1E4FB@mac.com> <28ED0DE6-776F-42D3-BA3B-A229726DA238@gmail.com> <1FEC7624-9FCD-4E8E-A8A6-41A1983AB233@mac.com> <ACB05685-8A23-430B-8A5F-A172456A9038@gmail.com> <2115D175-C99D-4953-B349-25DAF80B962A@mac.com> <8c82d1660804221004u3fa0a401vd1abf58359af9e9f@mail.gmail.com> <dec8f8e60804221141q3f67ed7aree1c6c2bae0fd758@mail.gmail.com> <D18E72D4-DD5D-4BFC-899A-263A93B7A384@gmail.com> <467EBFDD-B9A3-4132-86E5-E710D95D8EC9@mac.com>
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But it can be the master.
On Apr 22, 2008, at 10:38 PM, Teddy Kumpel wrote:

> sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but... the RC-50 is useless if  
> slaved to someone else's master clock.
>
> On Apr 22, 2008, at 9:10 PM, Scott Kellogg wrote:
>
>> Okay, so I got the RC-50 to slave to incoming clock, but I'm  
>> stymied on how to start recording a phrase without retrigging clock  
>> start.  This seems to be happening when I press Play/Rec while on  
>> someone else's master clock.  I'd like to be able to record a  
>> quantized phrase (i.e. I can be sloppy in my start and stop pedal  
>> pushes).  I've read the Fine Manual but could use a little help.
>>
>> Anyone?
>>
>> TIA,
>> Scott
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 12:25:40 2008
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from all of the people that came> up to me,none of them comented,asked how =
i was doing> what i was doing or seemed interested on the> equipment,instea=
d they raved on the good ol songs i> was doing and how cool the cajon sound=
ed...;-)
=20
=20
I find this really interesting as I find myself having to push the other wa=
y...to have my looped music seen in the context of "just another lineup / a=
nother musicians intepretation of songs" rather then "special effects and g=
immicks".
I also find the opposite in terms of after-show interaction with punters.I =
would say after every gig I have at least two people come stand on stage wh=
ile im packing up and either just oggle my gear out and out or give a hand =
shake and "good gig" shpiel whilst gluing their eyes to the reverse of my e=
ffects board.
=20
I don't really mind either way... I was exactly the same with Jez Reily who=
 was the first person I saw looping... I just had to find a reason to talk =
to him long enough to memorise the nu,bers and shapes of his effects so I c=
ould try and do the same.
=20
Phill MyOneManBand
_________________________________________________________________
Play the Andrex Hello Softie Game & win great prizes=20
http://www.thehellosoftiegame.co.uk=

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<body class=3D'hmmessage'>
<BR><BR>from all of the people that came<BR>&gt; up to me,none of them come=
nted,asked how i was doing<BR>&gt; what i was doing or seemed interested on=
 the<BR>&gt; equipment,instead they raved on the good ol songs i<BR>&gt; wa=
s doing and how cool the cajon sounded...;-)<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
I find this really interesting as I find myself having to push the other wa=
y...to have my looped music seen in the context of "just another lineup / a=
nother musicians intepretation of songs" rather then "special effects and g=
immicks".<BR>
I also find the opposite in terms of after-show interaction with punters.I =
would say after every gig I have at least two people come stand on stage wh=
ile im packing up and either just oggle my gear out and out or give a hand =
shake and "good gig" shpiel whilst gluing their eyes to the reverse of my e=
ffects board.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
I don't really mind either way... I was exactly the same with Jez Reily who=
 was the first person I saw looping... I just had to find a reason to talk =
to him long enough to memorise the nu,bers and shapes of his effects so I c=
ould try and do the same.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
Phill MyOneManBand<BR><br /><hr />Get 5GB  of online storage for free! <a h=
ref=3D'http://skydrive.live.com/' target=3D'_new'>Get it Now! </a></body>
</html>=

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 12:27:32 2008
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Subject: Re: COLLATED FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
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Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 08:27:28 -0400
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Famous? Some are. I would say, unless you can fill a 2500 seater, you  
ain't famous. :):):)
On Apr 23, 2008, at 12:02 AM, Rick Walker wrote:

> I'm trying to collate this list that everyone has suggested.
> It is a list , of course, one that will be ongoing, so keep those  
> names rolling in.
>
> I'm doing more and more interviews with more prominent music magazines
> so I want to be able to hand them such a list to help popularize  
> what we all love doing.
>
> I wanted to stress that this is a less of fairly famous live looping  
> artists
> and NOT a list of really excellent ones (who are not as well known).
> I think some of the greatest loopers on the planet are right here in  
> our
> community at Loopers Delight even though they are not really famous  
> in the world.
>
> I was unsure,  as an example, of including Markus Reuter who was  
> mentioned by two
> people in the thread.    I actually don't know his work.   Is he  
> well known in Europe?
> I certainly don't want to be guilty of being too Ameri-centric in  
> collating this list.
>
> This is why I didn't list everyone that people recommended in this  
> thread.
> If anyone disagrees with this list or thinks that someone should be  
> on it or not
> on it,  please let me know.
>
> respectfully,  Rick Walker
>
>
>
> LIST OF FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
>
> TERRY RILEY
> ROBERT FRIPP
> ADRIAN BELEW
> BILL FRISSEL
> DAVID TORN
> EBERHARD WEBER
> ARILD ANDERSEN
> KELLAR WILLIAMS
> EDDIE VEDDER (Pearl Jam)
> IMOGEN HEAP
> THOMAS DOLBY
> JON BRION
> JOHN SCOFIELD
> PHIL MANZENARA
> KID BEYOND (aka Andrew Chaikin) beatboxing all acapella live looping  
> show is really attracting attention)
> ROB MASSIE (of 808 State)
> STEVE ROACH
> ROBERT RICH
> MATMOS
> HENRY KAISER
>
>
>
>
> in our own community (and I include these names as people who seem
> to be prominent in the community and/or people who have done a lot  
> of work
> promoting live looping by having larger looping festivals.   This  
> is, of course,  off the top of
> my head.   Have I missed people in this list?   My apologies if I  
> have.
>
>
> MATTHIAS GROB (inventor of the Pardis delay which became the Gibson  
> Echoplex EDP with loop IV)
> KIM FLINT (American guitarist and founder of LOOPERS DELIGHT,  the  
> mecca live looping website on the planet)
> ANDRE LAFOSSE (American guitar)
> CLAUDE VOIT  (Swiss guitar)
> ANDY BUTLER (British guitar)
> BILL WALKER  (American guitarist)
> PER BOYSEN (Swedish multi instrumentalist-popularizer of live  
> looping in his country-founder of the 1st and 2nd SWEDISH LIVE  
> LOOPING FESTIVALs)
> SUNAO INAMI (Japanese keyboardist/composer-popularizer of live  
> looping in his country- founder for the LOOPERS DELIGHT J live  
> looping festivals)
> ERDEM HELVACIOGLU (Turkish composer/guitarist)
> BERNHARD WAGNER (Swiss guitarist - popularizer of live looping in  
> his country and founder of the 1st INTERNATIONAL LOOP FESTIVAL ZURICH)
> ANDREW OSTLER  (British electronic composer - popularizer of live  
> looping in his country-founder of the CAMBRIDGE LIVE LOOPING  
> FESTIVAL series)
> MASSIMO LIVERANI (ITALIAN guitarist - popularizer of live looping in  
> his country-founder of the 1st FIRENZE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL)
> MICHAEL PETERS (German experimental artist/guitarist - popularizer  
> of live looping in his country)
> LEANDER REININGHAUS (German Guitarist - popularizer of live looping  
> in his country-founder of the BERLIN LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)
> MICHAEL KLOBUCHAR (American guitarist and founder of the Chain Tape  
> Collective which was influential to the community
>                  from the early days of Loopers Delight until the  
> present)
> HANS LINDAUER (American electronic music/bassist- who started the  
> influential LOOPSTOCKHAUSEN festivals)
> RAINER STRASCHILL (German guitarist - popularizer of the KKYBERJAM  
> live looping movement)
> KRISPEN HARTUNG (American avant garde guitarist - popularizer of the  
> live looping and founder of the BOISE EXPERIMENTAL
> MUSIC FESTIVAL)
> RANDOLF ARRIOLA (who is in the process of creating the first  
> Singapore Live Looping Festival)
>
> and all the loopers who produced small one off live looping  
> festivals in their respective countries:

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 12:47:56 2008
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From: "Rick Walker" <looppool@cruzio.com>
To: "LOOPERS DELIGHT \(posting\)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Yunghcen Lhamo:   the Voice of Tibet  learns to  live loop
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 05:48:00 -0700
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I spent an hour yesterday after jamming with my brother Bill  and Yungchen 
Lhamo, the wonderful
singer from Tibet:  teaching her how to use a Line 6 DL-4.

She was enthralled................and kept giggling in a very delightful way 
as
Jim Goodin and I stepped her through her first live looping lesson.

She was able to loop drones and change octaves and reverse sounds by the end 
of our lesson.

She also asked me to mail her information about what equipment to buy so 
that she
can loop and record herself onto her computer  at her home in the Bronx 
(near her dear friend
and looping maestro,  Todd Reynolds).

***************************

I don't know if you all are familiar with her story but it's an incredible 
one.

Taught the ancient songs by her grandmother as a very young girl,  she 
walked 1,000 miles crossing
the Himalaya to escape the violent oppression of the Tibetan people (and 
specifically of the musicians of Tibet)
caused by the Chinese Cultural Revolution.

The Dalai Lama saw her singing when she was 17 years old and he told her 
that her karma
in life was to take the musical and spiritual culture of the Tibetan people 
to the world;
something she has done all of her life.

She has at least two CDs out on Peter Gabriel's Real World label and a who's 
who of the
famous pop musical world celebrities who've improvised with her, from 
Michael Stipe
to Billy Corgan, etc.

She's an amazing singer,   and a truly beautiful woman both spiritually and 
physically.
It was just an amazing treat to get her going with looping.

"When I left Tibet, I lost everything," Yungchen recalls.
"The one thing I didn't lose was my voice. And this I carried with me to the 
West."

check out her website at
www.yungchenlhamo.com 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 13:07:45 2008
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Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 13:07:43 +0000
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> There's a big difference between this video and Mir-O: Mir-O does it> rea=
ltime and without studio processing. Period. He can do it live.=20
I must stick up for Mr Ford here, I saw him at a live in-store last year an=
d he CAN to it live, indeed he did, with a couple of rc-20s and a multifx a=
s i can recall.
overall I thought his loops, while simple from a loopers point of view (som=
eone who is interested IN the loop), formed a very useful and usable backdr=
op to lay the rest of his song over.
=20
=20
> David Ford has the big advantage over most of us (including e.g. Reyn> Ou=
wenhand, whose EDP video is, to me, far more impressing) because he plays> =
a song with lyrics, and, to paraphrase David Byrne, lyrics are used to make=
> people listen to pop songs longer than they would ordinarily do.
I don't really get the "advantge-either/or" dichotomy going on here,I don't=
 think artists get an automatic leg up based on lyrical content. lyrics are=
 of an advantage in terms of pop  but that does not make them "advantagious=
"  per se,indeed in genres such as Post Rock they would be a very dificult =
element to use, however within his own chosen field I feel his lyrics are t=
he main "Point" of his works...the music and loops and such just help creat=
e an interesting route to delivery. if David Bryne was saying that a taking=
 a regular pop song and stripping out the lyrics would make it less interes=
ting I would agree but see the whole comment as a no-brainer because it rat=
her misses the point of why the artist would opperate in that method of mus=
ic making in the first place.
=20
> Rick: what is in this performance of David Ford that e.g. aforementioned>=
 Reyn does not have - except for the lead vocals? I've never heard you rave=
> on about such banal kind of music.
=20
Sorry if im picking this appart too much, Im just interested in the motivat=
ions behind the post...why would you expect Rick to pick Ryen OR David Ford=
? why would you? both seem to be doing a great job of the thing they do to =
my ears.=20
Again,Im sorry if this seems like an over the top reconstruction of your po=
st, I just find an awful lot of pleasure listening to this "Banal" form of =
music.Yes it has been done before, but Im not looking for a "difinitive art=
icle" I enjoy listening to well thought out contemplative works in many gen=
res even the more-travelled paths. I feel there is a tendency on this list =
to sometimes give more weight to technical and musical-gymnastic skills and=
 obscureness then to works that have less high-art ambitions.
=20
just my =A32 (inflation)Phill
_________________________________________________________________
Bag extra points with the Walkers Brit Trip Game=20
http://www.walkersbrittrips.co.uk/game=

--_40ec7b07-efdb-42e1-9658-08d423afe593_
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<html>
<head>
<style>
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma
}
</style>
</head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'>
<BR>&gt; There's a big difference between this video and Mir-O: Mir-O does =
it<BR>&gt; realtime and without studio processing. Period. He can do it liv=
e. <BR><BR>
I must stick up for Mr Ford here, I saw him at a live in-store last year an=
d he&nbsp;CAN to it live, indeed he did, with a couple of rc-20s and a mult=
ifx as i can recall.<BR>
overall I thought his loops, while simple from a loopers point of view (som=
eone who is interested IN the loop), formed a very useful and usable backdr=
op to lay the rest of his song over.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&gt; David Ford has the big advantage over most of us (including e.g. Reyn<=
BR>&gt; Ouwenhand, whose EDP video is, to me, far more impressing) because =
he plays<BR>&gt; a song with lyrics, and, to paraphrase David Byrne, lyrics=
 are used to make<BR>&gt; people listen to pop songs longer than they would=
 ordinarily do.<BR><BR>
I don't really get the "advantge-either/or" dichotomy going on here,I don't=
 think artists get an automatic leg up based on lyrical content.&nbsp;lyric=
s are of an advantage in terms of pop&nbsp; but that does not make them "ad=
vantagious"&nbsp; per se,indeed in genres such as Post Rock they would be a=
 very dificult element to use, however within his own chosen field I feel h=
is lyrics are the main "Point" of his works...the music and loops and such =
just help create an interesting route to delivery. if David Bryne was sayin=
g that a taking a regular pop song and stripping out the lyrics would make =
it less interesting I would agree but see the whole comment as a no-brainer=
 because it rather misses the point of why the artist would opperate in tha=
t method of music making in the first place.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
&gt; Rick: what is in this performance of David Ford that e.g. aforemention=
ed<BR>&gt; Reyn does not have - except for the lead vocals? I've never hear=
d you rave<BR>&gt; on about such banal kind of music.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
Sorry if im picking this appart too much, Im just interested in the motivat=
ions behind the post...why would you expect Rick to pick Ryen OR David&nbsp=
;Ford? why would you? both seem to be doing a great job of the thing they&n=
bsp;do to my ears.&nbsp;<BR>
Again,Im sorry if this seems like an over the top reconstruction of your po=
st, I just find an awful lot of pleasure listening to this "Banal" form of =
music.Yes it has been&nbsp;done before, but Im not looking for a "difinitiv=
e&nbsp;article" I enjoy listening to well thought out contemplative works i=
n many genres even the more-travelled paths.&nbsp;I feel there is a tendenc=
y on this list to sometimes give more weight to technical and musical-gymna=
stic skills and obscureness then to works that have less high-art ambitions=
.<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
just my =A32 (inflation)<BR>Phill<BR><br /><hr />Get fish-slapping on Messe=
nger <a href=3D'http://mobile.uk.msn.com/pc/messenger.aspx ' target=3D'_new=
'>Play Now</a></body>
</html>=

--_40ec7b07-efdb-42e1-9658-08d423afe593_--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 13:26:22 2008
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From: "Rick Walker" <looppool@cruzio.com>
To: "LOOPERS DELIGHT \(posting\)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Cc: "Y2K8LOOPFEST@yahoo.com" <y2k8loopfest@yahoo.com>,
        "PURPLEHAND@ hotmail.c" <purplehand@hotmail.com>,
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Subject: AMENDED FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
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oh gosh,  I keep putting my foot in my mouth.
I shouldn't make these posts late at night.
Also this posted strangely on the digest so I'll repost with corrections.
(note to self..........don't put colons into subjects headers for the 
digest)

Here were my obvious brain farts with apologies (thanks,  Rainer).

It's  TODD REYNOLDS not Tim Reynolds.   doh!!!!
A really idiotic mistake considering I really love his music and have been
corresponding with him offlist all week long.

And leaving out ZOE KEATING?   unforgiveable.   She indeed is making such 
waves that
she can make both lists.

LOOPSTOCK not loopstockhausen  (I was mixing up two of my favorite music 
festivals
that I've played at..........sorry Hans).

LUCA FORMENTINI's loopfestivals  in Lago Di Garda also were a glaring 
omission.
(as well as his original experimental guitar festivals)
PETER KONIUTO for the Boston Looping Festival of 2003
BRUNO KLEINEFELD for the Milano Looping Festival of 2003
PAUL MARHSALL for the Belfast Live Looping Festival of 2003
GARETH WHITTOCK for the Swansea Loop Festival of 2003 and 2008

and RAINER STRASCHILL plays just about everything and is not soley a 
guitarist.
Please forgive me, Rainer.

And lastly,  seeing JACO PASTORIUS loop a  second of digitally delayed 
harmonics and then soloing over it
with Weather Report in the early 80's started me off on my own path.....how 
could I have forgotten him.


okay,  this will obviously keep morphing a bit, but here's the amended list 
again.
Let me have it if I blow anything else.

*************
*************
LIST OF FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS

TERRY RILEY
ROBERT FRIPP
ADRIAN BELEW
BILL FRISELL
DAVID TORN
JACO PASTORIUS
EBERHARD WEBER
ARILD ANDERSEN
KELLAR WILLIAMS
EDDIE VEDDER (Pearl Jam)
IMOGEN HEAP
THOMAS DOLBY
JON BRION
JOHN SCOFIELD
PHIL MANZENARA
KID BEYOND (aka Andrew Chaikin)
ROB MASSIE (of 808 State)
STEVE ROACH
ROBERT RICH
MATMOS
HENRY KAISER
ZOE KEATING


in our own community (and I include these names as people who seem
to be prominent in the community and/or people who have done a lot of work
promoting live looping by having larger looping festivals.   This is, of
course,  off the top of
my head.   Have I missed people in this list?   My apologies if I have.


MATTHIAS GROB (inventor of the Pardis delay which became the Gibson
Echoplex
EDP with loop IV)
KIM FLINT (American guitarist and founder of LOOPERS DELIGHT,  the mecca
live looping website on the planet)
ANDRE LAFOSSE (American guitar)
CLAUDE VOIT  (Swiss guitar)
ANDY BUTLER (British guitar - founder of the Norwich Live Looping Festival 
this summer)
STEVE LAWSON (British bassist)
BILL WALKER  (American guitarist)
PER BOYSEN (Swedish multi instrumentalist-popularizer of live looping in
his country-founder of the 1st and 2nd SWEDISH LIVE LOOPING FESTIVALs)
MIRO  (Finnish multi-instrumentalist -- founder of FINLOOP this coming 
summer)
SUNAO INAMI (Japanese keyboardist/composer-popularizer of live looping in
his country- founder for the LOOPERS DELIGHT J live looping festivals)
ERDEM HELVACIOGLU (Turkish composer/guitarist)
BERNHARD WAGNER (Swiss guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his
country and founder of the 1st INTERNATIONAL LOOP FESTIVAL ZURICH)
ANDREW OSTLER  (British electronic composer - popularizer of live looping in
his country-founder of the CAMBRIDGE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)
MASSIMO LIVERANI (ITALIAN guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his
country-founder of the 1st FIRENZE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL)
MICHAEL PETERS (German experimental artist/guitarist - founder of the
KOLN LIVE LOOPING FESTIVALS of 2003 and 2008
LEANDER REININGHAUS (German guitarist -founder of the BERLIN LIVE LOOPING 
FESTIVAL series)
LUIS ANGULO (Mexican/American/German guitarist - 1st Northern Mexcio
loopfestival and loop fests
in Radolfzell/Konstanz in Southern Germany in 2003 and 2008).
LUCA FORMENTINI (Italian guitarist -founder of the Loop Festivals in Lago Di 
Garda)
MICHAEL KLOBUCHAR (American guitarist and founder of the Chain Tape
Collective which was influential to the community
from the early days of Loopers Delight until the present)
HANS LINDAUER (American electronic music/bassist- who started the 
influential LOOPSTOCK festivals)
RAINER STRASCHILL (German composer/multi-instrumentalist - popularizer of 
the KKYBERJAM live
looping movement)
KRISPEN HARTUNG (American avant garde guitarist - popularizer of the live
looping and founder of the BOISE EXPERIMENTAL MUSIC FESTIVAL)
RANDOLF ARRIOLA (who is in the process of creating the first Singapore 
LiveLooping Festival 2008)
PETER KONIUTO (for the Boston Looping Festival in 2003)
BRUNO KLEINEFELD (for the Milano Live Looping Festival of 2003)
PAUL MARSHALL (Northern Irish percussionist/instrument designer- founder of 
the Belfast Looping Festival in 2003)
GARETH WHITTOCK (Welsh guitarist, multi-instrumentalist -founder of the 
SWANSEA LOOPING FESTIVAL of 2003 and 2008)
RICKY GRAHAM (Northern Irish looper,  founder of the LONDONDERRY LOOPING 
FESTIVAL this coming summer-2008)

and all the loopers who produced small one off live looping events in
their respective countries. 

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whither kt tunstall? seasick dave? schlomo? pamelia kurstin? bob sellon,
even?

d.



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Subject: URGENT MAIL!!!........FROM CBN. PLS, IS MRS. JANET YOUR REPRESENTATIVE?
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CENTRAL BANK OF NIGERIA
Corporate Headquarter: CBN house Tinubu Square,
Eleke Crescent Victoria Island, Marina, Lagos,
P.O.Box 55037 Falomo Ikoyi Lagos Island Nigeria.
Personal address: prof_chukwuma47@yahoo.com
 
INHERITANCE/CONTRACT FUND#: MAV/NNPC/FGN/MIN/009 
 
Attn: Sir/Madam, 
 
This is to notify you that your over due inheritance/contract funds has been gazette to be released, via key telex transfer (KTT) direct wire transfer to you or through any of our correspondent nominated bank, by the senate committee for foreign over due fund transfer. 
 
Meanwhile, a woman came to my office few days ago with a letter, claiming to be your true representative. Below is her information for you to confirm to this office if this woman is truly from you or not so that the federal government will not be held responsible for paying into any wrong accounts. 
 
Claim's name: Janet P. White 
Bank Name: Citi bank Arizona, USA. 
Bank A/c#: 6503809428. 
 
Please, do reconfirm to this office, as a matter of urgency if this woman is from you. 
You are requested to fill and send this information as listed below for verifications purposes so that your fund valid US$7.5M (seven million five hundred thousand United State Dollars) will be remitted into your nominated bank account anywhere. 
 
This fund is as a result of inheritance/contract on your behalf. Information needed from you for verification is as follows: 
 
1. Your full name:
2. Your contact address:
3. Home Phone:
4. Mobile Phone: 
5. Fax:
6. Personal email address:
7. Date of Birth:
8. Marital statue:
9. Sex:
10. Your occupation:
11. Your full banking details: 
12. Any scanned copy of your ID:
 
As soon as we receive all the information as listed above, we will commence with all necessary procedures in other to remit this money into your account. The Central Bank Governor, in conjunction with the federal ministry of finance (FMF) Executive Board Of Directors and the Senate Committee for foreign over due inheritance/contract fund have approved and accredited. 
 
However, we shall proceed to issue all payments details to the said Mrs. White, if we do not hear from you within the next seven working days from today. We are sorry for any inconvenience the delay in transferring of this fund must have caused you. 
 
Kindly clarify us on this issue before we make this Payment to these foreigners whom came on your behalf. In receipt of this Confidential Letter, you are required to call this Bank immediately you receive this Letter Telephone: +234803-552-6556 
 
Congratulations. 
 
Professor Charles C. Soludo,
Executive Governor of Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN). 
Cc: senate president 
Cc: Executive Board of Directors [EBD] 
Cc: Accountant General of Nigeria



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Rick,
  I just realize that you are looking for a list of LIVE loopers, 
those who use the technology onstage, in live performance.  Certainly 
this list should include:

Kaki King

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaki_King




>oh gosh,  I keep putting my foot in my mouth.
>I shouldn't make these posts late at night.
>Also this posted strangely on the digest so I'll repost with corrections.
>(note to self..........don't put colons into subjects headers for the digest)
>
>Here were my obvious brain farts with apologies (thanks,  Rainer).
>
>It's  TODD REYNOLDS not Tim Reynolds.   doh!!!!
>A really idiotic mistake considering I really love his music and have been
>corresponding with him offlist all week long.
>
>And leaving out ZOE KEATING?   unforgiveable.   She indeed is making 
>such waves that
>she can make both lists.
>
>LOOPSTOCK not loopstockhausen  (I was mixing up two of my favorite 
>music festivals
>that I've played at..........sorry Hans).
>
>LUCA FORMENTINI's loopfestivals  in Lago Di Garda also were a 
>glaring omission.
>(as well as his original experimental guitar festivals)
>PETER KONIUTO for the Boston Looping Festival of 2003
>BRUNO KLEINEFELD for the Milano Looping Festival of 2003
>PAUL MARHSALL for the Belfast Live Looping Festival of 2003
>GARETH WHITTOCK for the Swansea Loop Festival of 2003 and 2008
>
>and RAINER STRASCHILL plays just about everything and is not soley a 
>guitarist.
>Please forgive me, Rainer.
>
>And lastly,  seeing JACO PASTORIUS loop a  second of digitally 
>delayed harmonics and then soloing over it
>with Weather Report in the early 80's started me off on my own 
>path.....how could I have forgotten him.
>
>
>okay,  this will obviously keep morphing a bit, but here's the 
>amended list again.
>Let me have it if I blow anything else.
>
>*************
>*************
>LIST OF FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
>
>TERRY RILEY
>ROBERT FRIPP
>ADRIAN BELEW
>BILL FRISELL
>DAVID TORN
>JACO PASTORIUS
>EBERHARD WEBER
>ARILD ANDERSEN
>KELLAR WILLIAMS
>EDDIE VEDDER (Pearl Jam)
>IMOGEN HEAP
>THOMAS DOLBY
>JON BRION
>JOHN SCOFIELD
>PHIL MANZENARA
>KID BEYOND (aka Andrew Chaikin)
>ROB MASSIE (of 808 State)
>STEVE ROACH
>ROBERT RICH
>MATMOS
>HENRY KAISER
>ZOE KEATING
>
>
>in our own community (and I include these names as people who seem
>to be prominent in the community and/or people who have done a lot of work
>promoting live looping by having larger looping festivals.   This is, of
>course,  off the top of
>my head.   Have I missed people in this list?   My apologies if I have.
>
>
>MATTHIAS GROB (inventor of the Pardis delay which became the Gibson
>Echoplex
>EDP with loop IV)
>KIM FLINT (American guitarist and founder of LOOPERS DELIGHT,  the mecca
>live looping website on the planet)
>ANDRE LAFOSSE (American guitar)
>CLAUDE VOIT  (Swiss guitar)
>ANDY BUTLER (British guitar - founder of the Norwich Live Looping 
>Festival this summer)
>STEVE LAWSON (British bassist)
>BILL WALKER  (American guitarist)
>PER BOYSEN (Swedish multi instrumentalist-popularizer of live looping in
>his country-founder of the 1st and 2nd SWEDISH LIVE LOOPING FESTIVALs)
>MIRO  (Finnish multi-instrumentalist -- founder of FINLOOP this coming summer)
>SUNAO INAMI (Japanese keyboardist/composer-popularizer of live looping in
>his country- founder for the LOOPERS DELIGHT J live looping festivals)
>ERDEM HELVACIOGLU (Turkish composer/guitarist)
>BERNHARD WAGNER (Swiss guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his
>country and founder of the 1st INTERNATIONAL LOOP FESTIVAL ZURICH)
>ANDREW OSTLER  (British electronic composer - popularizer of live looping in
>his country-founder of the CAMBRIDGE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)
>MASSIMO LIVERANI (ITALIAN guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his
>country-founder of the 1st FIRENZE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL)
>MICHAEL PETERS (German experimental artist/guitarist - founder of the
>KOLN LIVE LOOPING FESTIVALS of 2003 and 2008
>LEANDER REININGHAUS (German guitarist -founder of the BERLIN LIVE 
>LOOPING FESTIVAL series)
>LUIS ANGULO (Mexican/American/German guitarist - 1st Northern Mexcio
>loopfestival and loop fests
>in Radolfzell/Konstanz in Southern Germany in 2003 and 2008).
>LUCA FORMENTINI (Italian guitarist -founder of the Loop Festivals in 
>Lago Di Garda)
>MICHAEL KLOBUCHAR (American guitarist and founder of the Chain Tape
>Collective which was influential to the community
>from the early days of Loopers Delight until the present)
>HANS LINDAUER (American electronic music/bassist- who started the 
>influential LOOPSTOCK festivals)
>RAINER STRASCHILL (German composer/multi-instrumentalist - 
>popularizer of the KKYBERJAM live
>looping movement)
>KRISPEN HARTUNG (American avant garde guitarist - popularizer of the live
>looping and founder of the BOISE EXPERIMENTAL MUSIC FESTIVAL)
>RANDOLF ARRIOLA (who is in the process of creating the first 
>Singapore LiveLooping Festival 2008)
>PETER KONIUTO (for the Boston Looping Festival in 2003)
>BRUNO KLEINEFELD (for the Milano Live Looping Festival of 2003)
>PAUL MARSHALL (Northern Irish percussionist/instrument designer- 
>founder of the Belfast Looping Festival in 2003)
>GARETH WHITTOCK (Welsh guitarist, multi-instrumentalist -founder of 
>the SWANSEA LOOPING FESTIVAL of 2003 and 2008)
>RICKY GRAHAM (Northern Irish looper,  founder of the LONDONDERRY 
>LOOPING FESTIVAL this coming summer-2008)
>
>and all the loopers who produced small one off live looping events in
>their respective countries.


-- 
...
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<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 }
 --></style><title>Re: AMENDED FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING
ARTISTS</title></head><body>
<div><br></div>
<div>Rick,</div>
<div>&nbsp;I just realize that you are looking for a list of LIVE
loopers,&nbsp; those who use the technology onstage, in live
performance.&nbsp; Certainly this list should include:</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><font size="+2">Kaki King</font></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaki_King</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>oh gosh,&nbsp; I keep putting my foot in
my mouth.<br>
I shouldn't make these posts late at night.<br>
Also this posted strangely on the digest so I'll repost with
corrections.<br>
(note to self..........don't put colons into subjects headers for the
digest)<br>
<br>
Here were my obvious brain farts with apologies (thanks,&nbsp;
Rainer).<br>
<br>
It's&nbsp; TODD REYNOLDS not Tim Reynolds.&nbsp;&nbsp; doh!!!!<br>
A really idiotic mistake considering I really love his music and have
been<br>
corresponding with him offlist all week long.<br>
<br>
And leaving out ZOE KEATING?&nbsp;&nbsp; unforgiveable.&nbsp;&nbsp;
She indeed is making such waves that<br>
she can make both lists.<br>
<br>
LOOPSTOCK not loopstockhausen&nbsp; (I was mixing up two of my
favorite music festivals<br>
that I've played at..........sorry Hans).<br>
<br>
LUCA FORMENTINI's loopfestivals&nbsp; in Lago Di Garda also were a
glaring omission.<br>
(as well as his original experimental guitar festivals)<br>
PETER KONIUTO for the Boston Looping Festival of 2003<br>
BRUNO KLEINEFELD for the Milano Looping Festival of 2003<br>
PAUL MARHSALL for the Belfast Live Looping Festival of 2003<br>
GARETH WHITTOCK for the Swansea Loop Festival of 2003 and 2008<br>
<br>
and RAINER STRASCHILL plays just about everything and is not soley a
guitarist.<br>
Please forgive me, Rainer.<br>
<br>
And lastly,&nbsp; seeing JACO PASTORIUS loop a&nbsp; second of
digitally delayed harmonics and then soloing over it<br>
with Weather Report in the early 80's started me off on my own
path.....how could I have forgotten him.<br>
<br>
<br>
okay,&nbsp; this will obviously keep morphing a bit, but here's the
amended list again.<br>
Let me have it if I blow anything else.<br>
<br>
*************<br>
*************<br>
LIST OF FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS<br>
<br>
TERRY RILEY<br>
ROBERT FRIPP<br>
ADRIAN BELEW<br>
BILL FRISELL<br>
DAVID TORN<br>
JACO PASTORIUS<br>
EBERHARD WEBER<br>
ARILD ANDERSEN<br>
KELLAR WILLIAMS<br>
EDDIE VEDDER (Pearl Jam)<br>
IMOGEN HEAP<br>
THOMAS DOLBY<br>
JON BRION<br>
JOHN SCOFIELD<br>
PHIL MANZENARA<br>
KID BEYOND (aka Andrew Chaikin)<br>
ROB MASSIE (of 808 State)<br>
STEVE ROACH<br>
ROBERT RICH<br>
MATMOS<br>
HENRY KAISER<br>
ZOE KEATING<br>
<br>
<br>
in our own community (and I include these names as people who seem<br>
to be prominent in the community and/or people who have done a lot of
work<br>
promoting live looping by having larger looping festivals.&nbsp;&nbsp;
This is, of<br>
course,&nbsp; off the top of<br>
my head.&nbsp;&nbsp; Have I missed people in this list?&nbsp;&nbsp; My
apologies if I have.<br>
<br>
<br>
MATTHIAS GROB (inventor of the Pardis delay which became the
Gibson<br>
Echoplex<br>
EDP with loop IV)<br>
KIM FLINT (American guitarist and founder of LOOPERS DELIGHT,&nbsp;
the mecca<br>
live looping website on the planet)<br>
ANDRE LAFOSSE (American guitar)<br>
CLAUDE VOIT&nbsp; (Swiss guitar)<br>
ANDY BUTLER (British guitar - founder of the Norwich Live Looping
Festival this summer)<br>
STEVE LAWSON (British bassist)<br>
BILL WALKER&nbsp; (American guitarist)<br>
PER BOYSEN (Swedish multi instrumentalist-popularizer of live looping
in<br>
his country-founder of the 1st and 2nd SWEDISH LIVE LOOPING
FESTIVALs)<br>
MIRO&nbsp; (Finnish multi-instrumentalist -- founder of FINLOOP this
coming summer)<br>
SUNAO INAMI (Japanese keyboardist/composer-popularizer of live looping
in<br>
his country- founder for the LOOPERS DELIGHT J live looping
festivals)<br>
ERDEM HELVACIOGLU (Turkish composer/guitarist)<br>
BERNHARD WAGNER (Swiss guitarist - popularizer of live looping in
his<br>
country and founder of the 1st INTERNATIONAL LOOP FESTIVAL ZURICH)<br>
ANDREW OSTLER&nbsp; (British electronic composer - popularizer of live
looping in<br>
his country-founder of the CAMBRIDGE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)<br>
MASSIMO LIVERANI (ITALIAN guitarist - popularizer of live looping in
his<br>
country-founder of the 1st FIRENZE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL)<br>
MICHAEL PETERS (German experimental artist/guitarist - founder of
the<br>
KOLN LIVE LOOPING FESTIVALS of 2003 and 2008<br>
LEANDER REININGHAUS (German guitarist -founder of the BERLIN LIVE
LOOPING FESTIVAL series)<br>
LUIS ANGULO (Mexican/American/German guitarist - 1st Northern
Mexcio</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>loopfestival and loop fests<br>
in Radolfzell/Konstanz in Southern Germany in 2003 and 2008).<br>
LUCA FORMENTINI (Italian guitarist -founder of the Loop Festivals in
Lago Di Garda)<br>
MICHAEL KLOBUCHAR (American guitarist and founder of the Chain
Tape<br>
Collective which was influential to the community<br>
from the early days of Loopers Delight until the present)<br>
HANS LINDAUER (American electronic music/bassist- who started the
influential LOOPSTOCK festivals)<br>
RAINER STRASCHILL (German composer/multi-instrumentalist - popularizer
of the KKYBERJAM live<br>
looping movement)<br>
KRISPEN HARTUNG (American avant garde guitarist - popularizer of the
live<br>
looping and founder of the BOISE EXPERIMENTAL MUSIC FESTIVAL)<br>
RANDOLF ARRIOLA (who is in the process of creating the first Singapore
LiveLooping Festival 2008)<br>
PETER KONIUTO (for the Boston Looping Festival in 2003)<br>
BRUNO KLEINEFELD (for the Milano Live Looping Festival of 2003)<br>
PAUL MARSHALL (Northern Irish percussionist/instrument designer-
founder of the Belfast Looping Festival in 2003)<br>
GARETH WHITTOCK (Welsh guitarist, multi-instrumentalist -founder of
the SWANSEA LOOPING FESTIVAL of 2003 and 2008)<br>
RICKY GRAHAM (Northern Irish looper,&nbsp; founder of the LONDONDERRY
LOOPING FESTIVAL this coming summer-2008)<br>
<br>
and all the loopers who produced small one off live looping events
in<br>
their respective countries.</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<x-sigsep><pre>-- 
</pre></x-sigsep>
<div>...<br>
http://www.zmix.net</div>
</body>
</html>
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I also use the RC-50 in a funk/dance band. Live looping is not the main t=
hing here and this is were the RC-50 really shines imo. 

Our setup: the SUB outs send a percussive sync track to our drummer. This=
 allows me to use tempo synced arpeggiators, sequencers, drum loops, dela=
ys etc. The other 2 RC-50 tracks are used to create soundscapes together =
with a TC D2 or DD-20 delay and the output are only send to the MAIN outs=
. I try to keep the "sync" track as clean or percussive as possible. This=
 way, it's a lot easier for a drummer to follow the tempo of the RC-50. W=
orks great in band.

Summary
- tempo sync =3D> INTERNAL =3D master
- track 1 =3D> percussive loop =3D> SUB out =3D> send to drummer + own mo=
nitor/pa
- track 2+3 =3D> soundscapes =3D> MAIN out =3D> send to own monitor/pa

Sjaak

> But it can be the master.
> On Apr 22, 2008, at 10:38 PM, Teddy Kumpel wrote:
> 
> > sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but... the RC-50 is useless if  
> > slaved to someone else's master clock.
=0A

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Are you starting with preloaded custom WAV material on the phrases?   
Also, do you send the builtin guide track to the drummer?

On Apr 23, 2008, at 9:43 AM, Sjaak wrote:

> I also use the RC-50 in a funk/dance band. Live looping is not the  
> main thing here and this is were the RC-50 really shines imo.
>
> Our setup: the SUB outs send a percussive sync track to our drummer.  
> This allows me to use tempo synced arpeggiators, sequencers, drum  
> loops, delays etc. The other 2 RC-50 tracks are used to create  
> soundscapes together with a TC D2 or DD-20 delay and the output are  
> only send to the MAIN outs. I try to keep the "sync" track as clean  
> or percussive as possible. This way, it's a lot easier for a drummer  
> to follow the tempo of the RC-50. Works great in band.
>
> Summary
> - tempo sync => INTERNAL = master
> - track 1 => percussive loop => SUB out => send to drummer + own  
> monitor/pa
> - track 2+3 => soundscapes => MAIN out => send to own monitor/pa
>
> Sjaak
>
>> But it can be the master.
>> On Apr 22, 2008, at 10:38 PM, Teddy Kumpel wrote:
>>
>>> sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but... the RC-50 is useless if
>>> slaved to someone else's master clock.
>
>
>

--
"When it's right, nothing can stop it.  When it's wrong, nothing can  
make it happen."
- Jonathan Livingston Seagull





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> And lastly,  seeing JACO PASTORIUS loop a  second of digitally delayed 
> harmonics and then soloing over it
> with Weather Report in the early 80's started me off on my own 
> path.....how could I have forgotten him.
> 
> 

most famously showcased on Joni Mitchels "Shadows and Light" dvd

excepted here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxZWvhGE7CM

particularly interesting is the way he uses a single
hit on the bass to reference the loop length before
playing the rhythm.

andy butler


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well, we could actually put my name ON or IN the list, (didn't quite make it
in)  lol, and though I'm a multi-instrumentalist, I'm really more of a
violinist, and really don't do any multi-instrument stuff in my own shows.
Rick, you juggle a LOT...  thanks for all the work and contemplation in the
first place...

T.

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 9:26 AM, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:

> oh gosh,  I keep putting my foot in my mouth.
> I shouldn't make these posts late at night.
> Also this posted strangely on the digest so I'll repost with corrections.
> (note to self..........don't put colons into subjects headers for the
> digest)
>
> Here were my obvious brain farts with apologies (thanks,  Rainer).
>
> It's  TODD REYNOLDS not Tim Reynolds.   doh!!!!
> A really idiotic mistake considering I really love his music and have been
> corresponding with him offlist all week long.
>
> And leaving out ZOE KEATING?   unforgiveable.   She indeed is making such
> waves that
> she can make both lists.
>
> LOOPSTOCK not loopstockhausen  (I was mixing up two of my favorite music
> festivals
> that I've played at..........sorry Hans).
>
> LUCA FORMENTINI's loopfestivals  in Lago Di Garda also were a glaring
> omission.
> (as well as his original experimental guitar festivals)
> PETER KONIUTO for the Boston Looping Festival of 2003
> BRUNO KLEINEFELD for the Milano Looping Festival of 2003
> PAUL MARHSALL for the Belfast Live Looping Festival of 2003
> GARETH WHITTOCK for the Swansea Loop Festival of 2003 and 2008
>
> and RAINER STRASCHILL plays just about everything and is not soley a
> guitarist.
> Please forgive me, Rainer.
>
> And lastly,  seeing JACO PASTORIUS loop a  second of digitally delayed
> harmonics and then soloing over it
> with Weather Report in the early 80's started me off on my own
> path.....how could I have forgotten him.
>
>
> okay,  this will obviously keep morphing a bit, but here's the amended
> list again.
> Let me have it if I blow anything else.
>
> *************
> *************
> LIST OF FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
>
> TERRY RILEY
> ROBERT FRIPP
> ADRIAN BELEW
> BILL FRISELL
> DAVID TORN
> JACO PASTORIUS
> EBERHARD WEBER
> ARILD ANDERSEN
> KELLAR WILLIAMS
> EDDIE VEDDER (Pearl Jam)
> IMOGEN HEAP
> THOMAS DOLBY
> JON BRION
> JOHN SCOFIELD
> PHIL MANZENARA
> KID BEYOND (aka Andrew Chaikin)
> ROB MASSIE (of 808 State)
> STEVE ROACH
> ROBERT RICH
> MATMOS
> HENRY KAISER
> ZOE KEATING
>
>
> in our own community (and I include these names as people who seem
> to be prominent in the community and/or people who have done a lot of work
> promoting live looping by having larger looping festivals.   This is, of
> course,  off the top of
> my head.   Have I missed people in this list?   My apologies if I have.
>
>
> MATTHIAS GROB (inventor of the Pardis delay which became the Gibson
> Echoplex
> EDP with loop IV)
> KIM FLINT (American guitarist and founder of LOOPERS DELIGHT,  the mecca
> live looping website on the planet)
> ANDRE LAFOSSE (American guitar)
> CLAUDE VOIT  (Swiss guitar)
> ANDY BUTLER (British guitar - founder of the Norwich Live Looping Festival
> this summer)
> STEVE LAWSON (British bassist)
> BILL WALKER  (American guitarist)
> PER BOYSEN (Swedish multi instrumentalist-popularizer of live looping in
> his country-founder of the 1st and 2nd SWEDISH LIVE LOOPING FESTIVALs)
> MIRO  (Finnish multi-instrumentalist -- founder of FINLOOP this coming
> summer)
> SUNAO INAMI (Japanese keyboardist/composer-popularizer of live looping in
> his country- founder for the LOOPERS DELIGHT J live looping festivals)
> ERDEM HELVACIOGLU (Turkish composer/guitarist)
> BERNHARD WAGNER (Swiss guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his
> country and founder of the 1st INTERNATIONAL LOOP FESTIVAL ZURICH)
> ANDREW OSTLER  (British electronic composer - popularizer of live looping
> in
> his country-founder of the CAMBRIDGE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)
> MASSIMO LIVERANI (ITALIAN guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his
> country-founder of the 1st FIRENZE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL)
> MICHAEL PETERS (German experimental artist/guitarist - founder of the
> KOLN LIVE LOOPING FESTIVALS of 2003 and 2008
> LEANDER REININGHAUS (German guitarist -founder of the BERLIN LIVE LOOPING
> FESTIVAL series)
> LUIS ANGULO (Mexican/American/German guitarist - 1st Northern Mexcio
> loopfestival and loop fests
> in Radolfzell/Konstanz in Southern Germany in 2003 and 2008).
> LUCA FORMENTINI (Italian guitarist -founder of the Loop Festivals in Lago
> Di Garda)
> MICHAEL KLOBUCHAR (American guitarist and founder of the Chain Tape
> Collective which was influential to the community
> from the early days of Loopers Delight until the present)
> HANS LINDAUER (American electronic music/bassist- who started the
> influential LOOPSTOCK festivals)
> RAINER STRASCHILL (German composer/multi-instrumentalist - popularizer of
> the KKYBERJAM live
> looping movement)
> KRISPEN HARTUNG (American avant garde guitarist - popularizer of the live
> looping and founder of the BOISE EXPERIMENTAL MUSIC FESTIVAL)
> RANDOLF ARRIOLA (who is in the process of creating the first Singapore
> LiveLooping Festival 2008)
> PETER KONIUTO (for the Boston Looping Festival in 2003)
> BRUNO KLEINEFELD (for the Milano Live Looping Festival of 2003)
> PAUL MARSHALL (Northern Irish percussionist/instrument designer- founder
> of the Belfast Looping Festival in 2003)
> GARETH WHITTOCK (Welsh guitarist, multi-instrumentalist -founder of the
> SWANSEA LOOPING FESTIVAL of 2003 and 2008)
> RICKY GRAHAM (Northern Irish looper,  founder of the LONDONDERRY LOOPING
> FESTIVAL this coming summer-2008)
>
> and all the loopers who produced small one off live looping events in
> their respective countries.
>



-- 
http://www.toddreynolds.com |:
http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic |:
------------------------------------------------------|:
917.576.6166
todd@toddreynolds.com
toddreyn@gmail.com

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well, we could actually put my name ON or IN the list, (didn&#39;t quite make it in) &nbsp;lol, and though I&#39;m a multi-instrumentalist, I&#39;m really more of a violinist, and really don&#39;t do any multi-instrument stuff in my own shows.&nbsp;<div>
<br></div><div>Rick, you juggle a LOT... &nbsp;thanks for all the work and contemplation in the first place...</div><div><br></div><div>T.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 9:26 AM, Rick Walker &lt;<a href="mailto:looppool@cruzio.com">looppool@cruzio.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">oh gosh, &nbsp;I keep putting my foot in my mouth.<br>
I shouldn&#39;t make these posts late at night.<br>
Also this posted strangely on the digest so I&#39;ll repost with corrections.<br>
(note to self..........don&#39;t put colons into subjects headers for the digest)<br>
<br>
Here were my obvious brain farts with apologies (thanks, &nbsp;Rainer).<br>
<br>
It&#39;s &nbsp;TODD REYNOLDS not Tim Reynolds. &nbsp; doh!!!!<br>
A really idiotic mistake considering I really love his music and have been<br>
corresponding with him offlist all week long.<br>
<br>
And leaving out ZOE KEATING? &nbsp; unforgiveable. &nbsp; She indeed is making such waves that<br>
she can make both lists.<br>
<br>
LOOPSTOCK not loopstockhausen &nbsp;(I was mixing up two of my favorite music festivals<br>
that I&#39;ve played at..........sorry Hans).<br>
<br>
LUCA FORMENTINI&#39;s loopfestivals &nbsp;in Lago Di Garda also were a glaring omission.<br>
(as well as his original experimental guitar festivals)<br>
PETER KONIUTO for the Boston Looping Festival of 2003<br>
BRUNO KLEINEFELD for the Milano Looping Festival of 2003<br>
PAUL MARHSALL for the Belfast Live Looping Festival of 2003<br>
GARETH WHITTOCK for the Swansea Loop Festival of 2003 and 2008<br>
<br>
and RAINER STRASCHILL plays just about everything and is not soley a guitarist.<br>
Please forgive me, Rainer.<br>
<br>
And lastly, &nbsp;seeing JACO PASTORIUS loop a &nbsp;second of digitally delayed harmonics and then soloing over it<br>
with Weather Report in the early 80&#39;s started me off on my own path.....how could I have forgotten him.<br>
<br>
<br>
okay, &nbsp;this will obviously keep morphing a bit, but here&#39;s the amended list again.<br>
Let me have it if I blow anything else.<br>
<br>
*************<br>
*************<br>
LIST OF FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS<br>
<br>
TERRY RILEY<br>
ROBERT FRIPP<br>
ADRIAN BELEW<br>
BILL FRISELL<br>
DAVID TORN<br>
JACO PASTORIUS<br>
EBERHARD WEBER<br>
ARILD ANDERSEN<br>
KELLAR WILLIAMS<br>
EDDIE VEDDER (Pearl Jam)<br>
IMOGEN HEAP<br>
THOMAS DOLBY<br>
JON BRION<br>
JOHN SCOFIELD<br>
PHIL MANZENARA<br>
KID BEYOND (aka Andrew Chaikin)<br>
ROB MASSIE (of 808 State)<br>
STEVE ROACH<br>
ROBERT RICH<br>
MATMOS<br>
HENRY KAISER<br>
ZOE KEATING<br>
<br>
<br>
in our own community (and I include these names as people who seem<br>
to be prominent in the community and/or people who have done a lot of work<br>
promoting live looping by having larger looping festivals. &nbsp; This is, of<br>
course, &nbsp;off the top of<br>
my head. &nbsp; Have I missed people in this list? &nbsp; My apologies if I have.<br>
<br>
<br>
MATTHIAS GROB (inventor of the Pardis delay which became the Gibson<br>
Echoplex<br>
EDP with loop IV)<br>
KIM FLINT (American guitarist and founder of LOOPERS DELIGHT, &nbsp;the mecca<br>
live looping website on the planet)<br>
ANDRE LAFOSSE (American guitar)<br>
CLAUDE VOIT &nbsp;(Swiss guitar)<br>
ANDY BUTLER (British guitar - founder of the Norwich Live Looping Festival this summer)<br>
STEVE LAWSON (British bassist)<br>
BILL WALKER &nbsp;(American guitarist)<br>
PER BOYSEN (Swedish multi instrumentalist-popularizer of live looping in<br>
his country-founder of the 1st and 2nd SWEDISH LIVE LOOPING FESTIVALs)<br>
MIRO &nbsp;(Finnish multi-instrumentalist -- founder of FINLOOP this coming summer)<br>
SUNAO INAMI (Japanese keyboardist/composer-popularizer of live looping in<br>
his country- founder for the LOOPERS DELIGHT J live looping festivals)<br>
ERDEM HELVACIOGLU (Turkish composer/guitarist)<br>
BERNHARD WAGNER (Swiss guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his<br>
country and founder of the 1st INTERNATIONAL LOOP FESTIVAL ZURICH)<br>
ANDREW OSTLER &nbsp;(British electronic composer - popularizer of live looping in<br>
his country-founder of the CAMBRIDGE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)<br>
MASSIMO LIVERANI (ITALIAN guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his<br>
country-founder of the 1st FIRENZE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL)<br>
MICHAEL PETERS (German experimental artist/guitarist - founder of the<br>
KOLN LIVE LOOPING FESTIVALS of 2003 and 2008<br>
LEANDER REININGHAUS (German guitarist -founder of the BERLIN LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)<br>
LUIS ANGULO (Mexican/American/German guitarist - 1st Northern Mexcio<br>
loopfestival and loop fests<br>
in Radolfzell/Konstanz in Southern Germany in 2003 and 2008).<br>
LUCA FORMENTINI (Italian guitarist -founder of the Loop Festivals in Lago Di Garda)<br>
MICHAEL KLOBUCHAR (American guitarist and founder of the Chain Tape<br>
Collective which was influential to the community<br>
from the early days of Loopers Delight until the present)<br>
HANS LINDAUER (American electronic music/bassist- who started the influential LOOPSTOCK festivals)<br>
RAINER STRASCHILL (German composer/multi-instrumentalist - popularizer of the KKYBERJAM live<br>
looping movement)<br>
KRISPEN HARTUNG (American avant garde guitarist - popularizer of the live<br>
looping and founder of the BOISE EXPERIMENTAL MUSIC FESTIVAL)<br>
RANDOLF ARRIOLA (who is in the process of creating the first Singapore LiveLooping Festival 2008)<br>
PETER KONIUTO (for the Boston Looping Festival in 2003)<br>
BRUNO KLEINEFELD (for the Milano Live Looping Festival of 2003)<br>
PAUL MARSHALL (Northern Irish percussionist/instrument designer- founder of the Belfast Looping Festival in 2003)<br>
GARETH WHITTOCK (Welsh guitarist, multi-instrumentalist -founder of the SWANSEA LOOPING FESTIVAL of 2003 and 2008)<br>
RICKY GRAHAM (Northern Irish looper, &nbsp;founder of the LONDONDERRY LOOPING FESTIVAL this coming summer-2008)<br>
<br>
and all the loopers who produced small one off live looping events in<br>
their respective countries. <br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><a href="http://www.toddreynolds.com">http://www.toddreynolds.com</a> |:<br><a href="http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic">http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic</a> |:<br>
------------------------------------------------------|:<br>917.576.6166 <br><a href="mailto:todd@toddreynolds.com">todd@toddreynolds.com</a><br><a href="mailto:toddreyn@gmail.com">toddreyn@gmail.com</a>
</div>

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> Are you starting with preloaded custom WAV material on the phrases?
> Also, do you send the builtin guide track to the drummer?

Depending on the genre of the song, we use different methods to "sync" th=
e drummer to the RC-50 and my synths.

1) 1 preloaded sample + 2 live loops
The reason I use the RC-50 here is that most dance songs are built upon t=
ypical drum loops you can't re-create live easily: you simply need techni=
cal "perfect" loops for this genre. Prerecorded material is a solution fo=
r this problem. The other 2 tracks however are used to create loops live =
on stage.

2) RC-50 guide track + 3 live loops
The guide track can be send to the drummer using the SUB out's, but it's =
not send to the FOH PA. I can now use all 3 tracks to create live loops i=
f I want.

3) Live loops only 
I don't use this scenario together with the dance band, but only when per=
forming solo to create ambient type of songs. I then also use the feedbac=
k "workaround" here using the AUX in as well as unsycned tracks. This is =
the "real" looping and most interesting stuf imo :)

To summarize: I use the RC-50 both for looping and as a master click trac=
k. 

Sjaak=0A

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 14:26:17 2008
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Subject: Re: RC-50
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 10:26:15 -0400
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I'm still not getting why a few people think the RC-50 is 'useless' as  
a clock slave.

And thanks for the tips -- very helpful.

Scott

On Apr 23, 2008, at 10:19 AM, Sjaak wrote:

>> Are you starting with preloaded custom WAV material on the phrases?
>> Also, do you send the builtin guide track to the drummer?
>
> Depending on the genre of the song, we use different methods to  
> "sync" the drummer to the RC-50 and my synths.
>
> 1) 1 preloaded sample + 2 live loops
> The reason I use the RC-50 here is that most dance songs are built  
> upon typical drum loops you can't re-create live easily: you simply  
> need technical "perfect" loops for this genre. Prerecorded material  
> is a solution for this problem. The other 2 tracks however are used  
> to create loops live on stage.
>
> 2) RC-50 guide track + 3 live loops
> The guide track can be send to the drummer using the SUB out's, but  
> it's not send to the FOH PA. I can now use all 3 tracks to create  
> live loops if I want.
>
> 3) Live loops only
> I don't use this scenario together with the dance band, but only  
> when performing solo to create ambient type of songs. I then also  
> use the feedback "workaround" here using the AUX in as well as  
> unsycned tracks. This is the "real" looping and most interesting  
> stuf imo :)
>
> To summarize: I use the RC-50 both for looping and as a master click  
> track.
>
> Sjaak
>
>

--
"There is only one music."
- Jonas Hellborg






From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 14:42:34 2008
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> I'm still not getting why a few people think the RC-50 is 'useless' as =
 
> a clock slave.

OK, I'll explain. Test case:

- RC-50: clock sync is set to EXTERNAL, patch tempo =3D 120
- Some other midi device (synth): clock is set to master, initial tempo =3D=
 120 

Now increase the tempo on the synth to 130 bpm and check the tempo on the=
 RC-50: it's still says 120. In order to sync the RC-50 clock to 130 bpm =
you need to send a midi start message; you can do that with starting a se=
quence on the sync but....this will also result in starting the current p=
hrase of the RC-50 in playback or record mode. So these are the issues ev=
eryone talks about; you need more than just a midi tempo change message t=
o sync the RC-50.

Sjaak
=0A

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 14:45:45 2008
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As I recall, no-one could make it work reliably and then Roland tech support
confirmed that it doesn't work as intended.
There's a thread about this in the archives somewhere.

TH

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 7:26 AM, Scott Kellogg <bassnut@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm still not getting why a few people think the RC-50 is 'useless' as a
> clock slave.
>
> And thanks for the tips -- very helpful.
>
>
>

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As I recall, no-one could make it work reliably and then Roland tech support confirmed that it doesn&#39;t work as intended.&nbsp; <br>There&#39;s a thread about this in the archives somewhere.<br><br>TH<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 7:26 AM, Scott Kellogg &lt;<a href="mailto:bassnut@gmail.com">bassnut@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
I&#39;m still not getting why a few people think the RC-50 is &#39;useless&#39; as a clock slave.<br>
<br>
And thanks for the tips -- very helpful.<br><font color="#888888">
<br><br></font></blockquote></div><br>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 14:51:12 2008
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Cool, I'll do this very thing.

I couldn't get the RC to sync properly when sync was set to external, =20=

but it synced when set to auto.  I didn't send any tempo changes from =20=

the master device though (Monomachine).

Scott

On Apr 23, 2008, at 10:42 AM, Sjaak wrote:

>> I'm still not getting why a few people think the RC-50 is 'useless' =20=

>> as
>> a clock slave.
>
> OK, I'll explain. Test case:
>
> - RC-50: clock sync is set to EXTERNAL, patch tempo =3D 120
> - Some other midi device (synth): clock is set to master, initial =20
> tempo =3D 120
>
> Now increase the tempo on the synth to 130 bpm and check the tempo =20
> on the RC-50: it's still says 120. In order to sync the RC-50 clock =20=

> to 130 bpm you need to send a midi start message; you can do that =20
> with starting a sequence on the sync but....this will also result in =20=

> starting the current phrase of the RC-50 in playback or record mode. =20=

> So these are the issues everyone talks about; you need more than =20
> just a midi tempo change message to sync the RC-50.
>
> Sjaak
>
>
>

--
"However, faced with a fixed set of options, you are forced to employ =20=

those special, mystical powers =97 imagination and creativity."
- Paul Nagle






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Very interesting and pertinent (to recent discussions) article from Robert
about surviving as an artist.

http://robertrich.com/1000-true-fans-an-answer/

-- 
-==-=-=-
Tony

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Very interesting and pertinent (to recent discussions) article from Robert about surviving as an artist.<br><br><a href="http://robertrich.com/1000-true-fans-an-answer/">http://robertrich.com/1000-true-fans-an-answer/</a><br clear="all">
<br>-- <br>-==-=-=- <br>Tony

------=_Part_3963_20170826.1208963175898--

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Thank you for that. Extremely relevant.

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 11:06 AM, Tony K <bigtonyk@gmail.com> wrote:
> Very interesting and pertinent (to recent discussions) article from Robert
> about surviving as an artist.
>
> http://robertrich.com/1000-true-fans-an-answer/
>
> --
> -==-=-=-
> Tony

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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: RP Collier <skeptikalist@gmail.com>
Subject: Robert Rich on micro-niche business model
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 07:57:16 -0700
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Robert Rich response on the idea of "1000 true fans model" :

http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/04/the_reality_of.php


regards


BobC



http://cdbaby.com/cd/rpcollier3
http://tinyurl.com/yt8f8j
http://www.youtube.com/tynego

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 15:53:49 2008
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Subject: Re: AMENDED FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:49:41 -0300
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apart from some already on the list, those are the best, most  
professional and nice guys I met:

Michael Schiefel  http://schiefel.de
of all the loopers I have ever met he went clearly the furthest with  
using most different features for most elaborated compositions and his  
voice is precise and flexible as few voices I have heard, and yes, he  
is fun, too! - and touring through the world... giving workshops with  
looping...

Mich Gerber http://www.michgerber.ch
Swiss upright bass player who toured Europe for many years with his  
trio/quartet which is completely based on his bass loops (including  
very high pitched bowing and rhythmic taping)

Linsey Pollak http://www.linseypollak.com
Australian, touring the world (yes, down to Brasil!) with his strange  
wind instruments. He even loops the noise of a little stick moving  
over his last few hairs on the head top :-) and its fun and groovy!

Laurence Revey http://www.laurencerevey.com
Chanteuse speaking some rare old french like language, beautiful loop  
choirs...

Stefan Keller http://www.flutetrends.ch/
the orchestra out of all sizes of flutes, very percussive!



On 23 Apr 2008, at 11:10, todd reynolds wrote:
> well, we could actually put my name ON or IN the list, (didn't quite  
> make it in)  lol, and though I'm a multi-instrumentalist, I'm really  
> more of a violinist, and really don't do any multi-instrument stuff  
> in my own shows.
>
> Rick, you juggle a LOT...  thanks for all the work and contemplation  
> in the first place...
>
> T.
>
> On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 9:26 AM, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com>  
> wrote:
> oh gosh,  I keep putting my foot in my mouth.
> I shouldn't make these posts late at night.
> Also this posted strangely on the digest so I'll repost with  
> corrections.
> (note to self..........don't put colons into subjects headers for  
> the digest)
>
> Here were my obvious brain farts with apologies (thanks,  Rainer).
>
> It's  TODD REYNOLDS not Tim Reynolds.   doh!!!!
> A really idiotic mistake considering I really love his music and  
> have been
> corresponding with him offlist all week long.
>
> And leaving out ZOE KEATING?   unforgiveable.   She indeed is making  
> such waves that
> she can make both lists.
>
> LOOPSTOCK not loopstockhausen  (I was mixing up two of my favorite  
> music festivals
> that I've played at..........sorry Hans).
>
> LUCA FORMENTINI's loopfestivals  in Lago Di Garda also were a  
> glaring omission.
> (as well as his original experimental guitar festivals)
> PETER KONIUTO for the Boston Looping Festival of 2003
> BRUNO KLEINEFELD for the Milano Looping Festival of 2003
> PAUL MARHSALL for the Belfast Live Looping Festival of 2003
> GARETH WHITTOCK for the Swansea Loop Festival of 2003 and 2008
>
> and RAINER STRASCHILL plays just about everything and is not soley a  
> guitarist.
> Please forgive me, Rainer.
>
> And lastly,  seeing JACO PASTORIUS loop a  second of digitally  
> delayed harmonics and then soloing over it
> with Weather Report in the early 80's started me off on my own  
> path.....how could I have forgotten him.
>
>
> okay,  this will obviously keep morphing a bit, but here's the  
> amended list again.
> Let me have it if I blow anything else.
>
> *************
> *************
> LIST OF FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
>
> TERRY RILEY
> ROBERT FRIPP
> ADRIAN BELEW
> BILL FRISELL
> DAVID TORN
> JACO PASTORIUS
> EBERHARD WEBER
> ARILD ANDERSEN
> KELLAR WILLIAMS
> EDDIE VEDDER (Pearl Jam)
> IMOGEN HEAP
> THOMAS DOLBY
> JON BRION
> JOHN SCOFIELD
> PHIL MANZENARA
> KID BEYOND (aka Andrew Chaikin)
> ROB MASSIE (of 808 State)
> STEVE ROACH
> ROBERT RICH
> MATMOS
> HENRY KAISER
> ZOE KEATING
>
>
> in our own community (and I include these names as people who seem
> to be prominent in the community and/or people who have done a lot  
> of work
> promoting live looping by having larger looping festivals.   This  
> is, of
> course,  off the top of
> my head.   Have I missed people in this list?   My apologies if I  
> have.
>
>
> MATTHIAS GROB (inventor of the Pardis delay which became the Gibson
> Echoplex
> EDP with loop IV)
> KIM FLINT (American guitarist and founder of LOOPERS DELIGHT,  the  
> mecca
> live looping website on the planet)
> ANDRE LAFOSSE (American guitar)
> CLAUDE VOIT  (Swiss guitar)
> ANDY BUTLER (British guitar - founder of the Norwich Live Looping  
> Festival this summer)
> STEVE LAWSON (British bassist)
> BILL WALKER  (American guitarist)
> PER BOYSEN (Swedish multi instrumentalist-popularizer of live  
> looping in
> his country-founder of the 1st and 2nd SWEDISH LIVE LOOPING FESTIVALs)
> MIRO  (Finnish multi-instrumentalist -- founder of FINLOOP this  
> coming summer)
> SUNAO INAMI (Japanese keyboardist/composer-popularizer of live  
> looping in
> his country- founder for the LOOPERS DELIGHT J live looping festivals)
> ERDEM HELVACIOGLU (Turkish composer/guitarist)
> BERNHARD WAGNER (Swiss guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his
> country and founder of the 1st INTERNATIONAL LOOP FESTIVAL ZURICH)
> ANDREW OSTLER  (British electronic composer - popularizer of live  
> looping in
> his country-founder of the CAMBRIDGE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)
> MASSIMO LIVERANI (ITALIAN guitarist - popularizer of live looping in  
> his
> country-founder of the 1st FIRENZE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL)
> MICHAEL PETERS (German experimental artist/guitarist - founder of the
> KOLN LIVE LOOPING FESTIVALS of 2003 and 2008
> LEANDER REININGHAUS (German guitarist -founder of the BERLIN LIVE  
> LOOPING FESTIVAL series)
> LUIS ANGULO (Mexican/American/German guitarist - 1st Northern Mexcio
> loopfestival and loop fests
> in Radolfzell/Konstanz in Southern Germany in 2003 and 2008).
> LUCA FORMENTINI (Italian guitarist -founder of the Loop Festivals in  
> Lago Di Garda)
> MICHAEL KLOBUCHAR (American guitarist and founder of the Chain Tape
> Collective which was influential to the community
> from the early days of Loopers Delight until the present)
> HANS LINDAUER (American electronic music/bassist- who started the  
> influential LOOPSTOCK festivals)
> RAINER STRASCHILL (German composer/multi-instrumentalist -  
> popularizer of the KKYBERJAM live
> looping movement)
> KRISPEN HARTUNG (American avant garde guitarist - popularizer of the  
> live
> looping and founder of the BOISE EXPERIMENTAL MUSIC FESTIVAL)
> RANDOLF ARRIOLA (who is in the process of creating the first  
> Singapore LiveLooping Festival 2008)
> PETER KONIUTO (for the Boston Looping Festival in 2003)
> BRUNO KLEINEFELD (for the Milano Live Looping Festival of 2003)
> PAUL MARSHALL (Northern Irish percussionist/instrument designer-  
> founder of the Belfast Looping Festival in 2003)
> GARETH WHITTOCK (Welsh guitarist, multi-instrumentalist -founder of  
> the SWANSEA LOOPING FESTIVAL of 2003 and 2008)
> RICKY GRAHAM (Northern Irish looper,  founder of the LONDONDERRY  
> LOOPING FESTIVAL this coming summer-2008)
>
> and all the loopers who produced small one off live looping events in
> their respective countries.
>
>
>
> -- 
> http://www.toddreynolds.com |:
> http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic |:
> ------------------------------------------------------|:
> 917.576.6166
> todd@toddreynolds.com
> toddreyn@gmail.com

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Interesting for sure, thanks Tony. I had two reactions. The first was, 
that's hopeful. 1000 fans is a foreseeable goal, over years of course, 
for anyone who's making good music and getting out there.

The second was, that's depressing. He details his relationship with his 
close fans and the difficulty of riding the balance between surprising 
fans with something in a style they won't like, or giving them exactly 
what they expect and risking them becoming bored. That's exactly the 
internal discussion I wish to avoid. Being mindful of one's livelihood 
at the moment of creation is the way to artistic death, to be 
melodramatic. Art as simple product is product, not art.

(and yeah, I know the Beatles used to say "let's write ourselves a 
swimming pool", but hell...they were the Beatles!)

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com

> Very interesting and pertinent (to recent discussions) article from 
> Robert about surviving as an artist.
>
> http://robertrich.com/1000-true-fans-an-answer/

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Is that so?  I'd be interested in hearing how many *True Fans* people have,
and what their yearly growth rate is for this valuable commodity.
TH

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 9:15 AM, Daryl Shawn <highhorse@mhorse.com> wrote:

> 1000 fans is a foreseeable goal, over years of course, for anyone who's
> making good music and getting out there.
>

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Is that so? &nbsp;I&#39;d be interested in hearing how many *True Fans* people have, and what their yearly growth rate is for this valuable commodity. &nbsp;<div><br></div><div>TH<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 9:15 AM, Daryl Shawn &lt;<a href="mailto:highhorse@mhorse.com">highhorse@mhorse.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">1000 fans is a foreseeable goal, over years of course, for anyone who&#39;s making good music and getting out there.<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

------=_Part_21412_1764124.1208967773139--

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Heh...emphasis on "goal". I don't necessarily mean it's practical to bet 
on it, but "foreseeable" in that it's a figure that one can comprehend, 
and aim for.

I'm not there yet... :-P

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com
> Is that so?  I'd be interested in hearing how many *True Fans* people 
> have, and what their yearly growth rate is for this valuable commodity.  
>
> TH
>
> On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 9:15 AM, Daryl Shawn <highhorse@mhorse.com 
> <mailto:highhorse@mhorse.com>> wrote:
>
>     1000 fans is a foreseeable goal, over years of course, for anyone
>     who's making good music and getting out there.
>

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From: "greg williams" <gregorwilliams@comcast.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: AMENDED FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 09:35:57 -0700
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A couple more to add:
Paul Dresher
Trey Anastasio (looped a little with Phish in their final years)
~GW

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Walker [mailto:looppool@cruzio.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 6:26 AM
To: LOOPERS DELIGHT (posting)
Cc: Y2K8LOOPFEST@yahoo.com; PURPLEHAND@ hotmail.c; LOOPPOOL@cruzio.com
Subject: AMENDED FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS

oh gosh,  I keep putting my foot in my mouth.
I shouldn't make these posts late at night.
Also this posted strangely on the digest so I'll repost with corrections.
(note to self..........don't put colons into subjects headers for the 
digest)

Here were my obvious brain farts with apologies (thanks,  Rainer).

It's  TODD REYNOLDS not Tim Reynolds.   doh!!!!
A really idiotic mistake considering I really love his music and have been
corresponding with him offlist all week long.

And leaving out ZOE KEATING?   unforgiveable.   She indeed is making such 
waves that
she can make both lists.

LOOPSTOCK not loopstockhausen  (I was mixing up two of my favorite music 
festivals
that I've played at..........sorry Hans).

LUCA FORMENTINI's loopfestivals  in Lago Di Garda also were a glaring 
omission.
(as well as his original experimental guitar festivals)
PETER KONIUTO for the Boston Looping Festival of 2003
BRUNO KLEINEFELD for the Milano Looping Festival of 2003
PAUL MARHSALL for the Belfast Live Looping Festival of 2003
GARETH WHITTOCK for the Swansea Loop Festival of 2003 and 2008

and RAINER STRASCHILL plays just about everything and is not soley a 
guitarist.
Please forgive me, Rainer.

And lastly,  seeing JACO PASTORIUS loop a  second of digitally delayed 
harmonics and then soloing over it
with Weather Report in the early 80's started me off on my own path.....how 
could I have forgotten him.


okay,  this will obviously keep morphing a bit, but here's the amended list 
again.
Let me have it if I blow anything else.

*************
*************
LIST OF FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS

TERRY RILEY
ROBERT FRIPP
ADRIAN BELEW
BILL FRISELL
DAVID TORN
JACO PASTORIUS
EBERHARD WEBER
ARILD ANDERSEN
KELLAR WILLIAMS
EDDIE VEDDER (Pearl Jam)
IMOGEN HEAP
THOMAS DOLBY
JON BRION
JOHN SCOFIELD
PHIL MANZENARA
KID BEYOND (aka Andrew Chaikin)
ROB MASSIE (of 808 State)
STEVE ROACH
ROBERT RICH
MATMOS
HENRY KAISER
ZOE KEATING


in our own community (and I include these names as people who seem
to be prominent in the community and/or people who have done a lot of work
promoting live looping by having larger looping festivals.   This is, of
course,  off the top of
my head.   Have I missed people in this list?   My apologies if I have.


MATTHIAS GROB (inventor of the Pardis delay which became the Gibson
Echoplex
EDP with loop IV)
KIM FLINT (American guitarist and founder of LOOPERS DELIGHT,  the mecca
live looping website on the planet)
ANDRE LAFOSSE (American guitar)
CLAUDE VOIT  (Swiss guitar)
ANDY BUTLER (British guitar - founder of the Norwich Live Looping Festival 
this summer)
STEVE LAWSON (British bassist)
BILL WALKER  (American guitarist)
PER BOYSEN (Swedish multi instrumentalist-popularizer of live looping in
his country-founder of the 1st and 2nd SWEDISH LIVE LOOPING FESTIVALs)
MIRO  (Finnish multi-instrumentalist -- founder of FINLOOP this coming 
summer)
SUNAO INAMI (Japanese keyboardist/composer-popularizer of live looping in
his country- founder for the LOOPERS DELIGHT J live looping festivals)
ERDEM HELVACIOGLU (Turkish composer/guitarist)
BERNHARD WAGNER (Swiss guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his
country and founder of the 1st INTERNATIONAL LOOP FESTIVAL ZURICH)
ANDREW OSTLER  (British electronic composer - popularizer of live looping in
his country-founder of the CAMBRIDGE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL series)
MASSIMO LIVERANI (ITALIAN guitarist - popularizer of live looping in his
country-founder of the 1st FIRENZE LIVE LOOPING FESTIVAL)
MICHAEL PETERS (German experimental artist/guitarist - founder of the
KOLN LIVE LOOPING FESTIVALS of 2003 and 2008
LEANDER REININGHAUS (German guitarist -founder of the BERLIN LIVE LOOPING 
FESTIVAL series)
LUIS ANGULO (Mexican/American/German guitarist - 1st Northern Mexcio
loopfestival and loop fests
in Radolfzell/Konstanz in Southern Germany in 2003 and 2008).
LUCA FORMENTINI (Italian guitarist -founder of the Loop Festivals in Lago Di

Garda)
MICHAEL KLOBUCHAR (American guitarist and founder of the Chain Tape
Collective which was influential to the community
from the early days of Loopers Delight until the present)
HANS LINDAUER (American electronic music/bassist- who started the 
influential LOOPSTOCK festivals)
RAINER STRASCHILL (German composer/multi-instrumentalist - popularizer of 
the KKYBERJAM live
looping movement)
KRISPEN HARTUNG (American avant garde guitarist - popularizer of the live
looping and founder of the BOISE EXPERIMENTAL MUSIC FESTIVAL)
RANDOLF ARRIOLA (who is in the process of creating the first Singapore 
LiveLooping Festival 2008)
PETER KONIUTO (for the Boston Looping Festival in 2003)
BRUNO KLEINEFELD (for the Milano Live Looping Festival of 2003)
PAUL MARSHALL (Northern Irish percussionist/instrument designer- founder of 
the Belfast Looping Festival in 2003)
GARETH WHITTOCK (Welsh guitarist, multi-instrumentalist -founder of the 
SWANSEA LOOPING FESTIVAL of 2003 and 2008)
RICKY GRAHAM (Northern Irish looper,  founder of the LONDONDERRY LOOPING 
FESTIVAL this coming summer-2008)

and all the loopers who produced small one off live looping events in
their respective countries. 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 16:39:23 2008
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Not to pick on you personally, but I'm assuming you make "good" music and
that you're "getting out there".  While I'm guessing you don't have the
1000TF, I'm wondering how many you (and anyone else out there who cares to
share) do have and how many years it took to acquire them.
I mean, unless we're assuming that we're all going to live a thousand years
or something, people are usually only "getting out there" for ten or twenty
years before the demands of life severely curtail active public musical
activity.  It's one thing to get 1000TF if you've already been part of the
first division of the music industry, another thing if you're starting off
at ground zero as an unknown quantity.
TH

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 9:31 AM, Daryl Shawn <highhorse@mhorse.com> wrote:

> Heh...emphasis on "goal". I don't necessarily mean it's practical to bet
> on it, but "foreseeable" in that it's a figure that one can comprehend, and
> aim for.
>
> I'm not there yet... :-P
>
> Daryl Shawn
> www.swanwelder.com
> www.chinapaintingmusic.com
>
> > Is that so?  I'd be interested in hearing how many *True Fans* people
> > have, and what their yearly growth rate is for this valuable commodity.
> > TH
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 9:15 AM, Daryl Shawn <highhorse@mhorse.com<mailto:
> > highhorse@mhorse.com>> wrote:
> >
> >    1000 fans is a foreseeable goal, over years of course, for anyone
> >    who's making good music and getting out there.
> >
> >
>

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Not to pick on you personally, but I&#39;m assuming you make &quot;good&quot; music and that you&#39;re &quot;getting out there&quot;. &nbsp;While I&#39;m guessing you don&#39;t have the 1000TF, I&#39;m wondering how many you (and anyone else out there who cares to share) do have and how many years it took to acquire them. &nbsp;<div>
<br></div><div>I mean, unless we&#39;re assuming that we&#39;re all going to live a thousand years or something, people are usually only &quot;getting out there&quot; for ten or twenty years before the demands of life severely curtail active public musical activity. &nbsp;It&#39;s one thing to get 1000TF if you&#39;ve already been part of the first division of the music industry, another thing if you&#39;re starting off at ground zero as an unknown quantity.<div>
<br></div><div>TH<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 9:31 AM, Daryl Shawn &lt;<a href="mailto:highhorse@mhorse.com">highhorse@mhorse.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
Heh...emphasis on &quot;goal&quot;. I don&#39;t necessarily mean it&#39;s practical to bet on it, but &quot;foreseeable&quot; in that it&#39;s a figure that one can comprehend, and aim for.<br>
<br>
I&#39;m not there yet... :-P<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
<br>
Daryl Shawn<br>
<a href="http://www.swanwelder.com" target="_blank">www.swanwelder.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com" target="_blank">www.chinapaintingmusic.com</a><br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="Ih2E3d">
Is that so? &nbsp;I&#39;d be interested in hearing how many *True Fans* people have, and what their yearly growth rate is for this valuable commodity. &nbsp;<br>
TH<br>
<br></div><div class="Ih2E3d">
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 9:15 AM, Daryl Shawn &lt;<a href="mailto:highhorse@mhorse.com" target="_blank">highhorse@mhorse.com</a> &lt;mailto:<a href="mailto:highhorse@mhorse.com" target="_blank">highhorse@mhorse.com</a>&gt;&gt; wrote:<br>

<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp;1000 fans is a foreseeable goal, over years of course, for anyone<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp;who&#39;s making good music and getting out there.<br>
<br>
</div></blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 16:48:51 2008
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It is absolutely amazing to see how this thread has drifted over the
past 24 hours.

When I started it, I was trying to confirm my own impression that the
video presented in the WIRED article was not, in fact, a live capture
of David performing a looping performance of his song. No critique of
his music or technique; rather, as a musician always looking to
incorporate and use any techniques or approaches that might expand my
own performances (hence, mycomments to Steve Lawson that knowing the
technique is important, if only to understand how our own can expand
and be allowed to grow).

We've managed to cover a lot of ground in the meantime ...

Best,

Dennis

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 17:21:56 2008
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Thank you for making the "good music" assumption! Sure wish you were a 
booker! :-P

It feels totally crass to quantify this, BTW, but I'll play along. I 
define "true fan" is someone who is interested in new releases and will 
always make an effort to see me if there's a show in their town. I had a 
band that accumulated probably 50 in this category (as opposed to more 
casual fans) over three years of active playing. I'm just starting out a 
solo artist - first solo CD and first solo shows were both last year - 
but around half of those band fans are still interested. Last year I did 
23 shows and added or got acquainted with maybe 10 or 20 more fans. This 
year I hope to put out five releases and do double that number of shows, 
so I imagine there'll be statistically more.

Will I ever hit 1000? Who knows. If so, it'll take a decade at least, 
for sure, without one of those mythical "breaks" like a tour with 
someone more established or record label support which would change 
things (and on which I'm not counting one iota).

As for "demands of life" vs.musical activity, my hero (and probably 
favorite musician, period) is Elvin Jones - taking oxygen on the 
bandstand and playing live up til a couple of weeks before he died at 
age 76. I aim to keep playing as much as I can, day job or no day job, 
til they pry my cold dead fingers...

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com

> Not to pick on you personally, but I'm assuming you make "good" music 
> and that you're "getting out there".  While I'm guessing you don't 
> have the 1000TF, I'm wondering how many you (and anyone else out there 
> who cares to share) do have and how many years it took to acquire them.  
>
> I mean, unless we're assuming that we're all going to live a thousand 
> years or something, people are usually only "getting out there" for 
> ten or twenty years before the demands of life severely curtail active 
> public musical activity.  It's one thing to get 1000TF if you've 
> already been part of the first division of the music industry, another 
> thing if you're starting off at ground zero as an unknown quantity.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 18:29:26 2008
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jayrope looper's delight schrieb:
> The passionate plumber is the better plumber. Of course it is not easy 
> to stay this course, but i do believe it is worth it. I appreciate you 
> read this.

I appreciate you wrote this, we seem to share philosophies as well as 
experiences... ;-)

Let me know when you come back to Berlin, I should be around there 
beginning of may...

Stefan

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|\-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 18:40:34 2008
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Where would andrew bird fit? If he does...Lots of DL4 use

 
  www.myspace.com/mesqua
  www.reverbnation.com/stevenguerrero



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Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:46:08 -0400
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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Phil Keaggy has been doing looping lately.  I think he's famous. ;)

Tony

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 2:40 PM, stevenguerrero <mesquamacus@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> Where would andrew bird fit? If he does...Lots of DL4 use
>
>
>  www.myspace.com/mesqua
>  www.reverbnation.com/stevenguerrero
>
>
>
>
>  ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>

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Phil Keaggy has been doing looping lately.&nbsp; I think he&#39;s famous. ;)<br><br>Tony<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 2:40 PM, stevenguerrero &lt;<a href="mailto:mesquamacus@yahoo.com">mesquamacus@yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Where would andrew bird fit? If he does...Lots of DL4 use<br>
<br>
<br>
 &nbsp;<a href="http://www.myspace.com/mesqua" target="_blank">www.myspace.com/mesqua</a><br>
 &nbsp;<a href="http://www.reverbnation.com/stevenguerrero" target="_blank">www.reverbnation.com/stevenguerrero</a><br>
<div class="WgoR0d"><br>
<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;____________________________________________________________________________________<br>
Be a better friend, newshound, and<br>
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. &nbsp;Try it now. &nbsp;<a href="http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ" target="_blank">http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ</a><br>
<br>
</div></blockquote></div><br><br>

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Here's the original Kevin Kelly article that he is referring to by  
the way:
http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/03/1000_true_fans.php

I also responded to the survey, and I'm curious what comes out of it.

On Apr 23, 2008, at 8:06 AM, Tony K wrote:

> Very interesting and pertinent (to recent discussions) article from  
> Robert about surviving as an artist.
>
> http://robertrich.com/1000-true-fans-an-answer/
>
> -- 
> -==-=-=-
> Tony


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<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
Here's the original Kevin Kelly article that he is referring to by the way:<div><a href="http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/03/1000_true_fans.php">http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/03/1000_true_fans.php</a></div><div><br></div><div>I also responded to the survey, and I'm curious what comes out of it.</div><div><br><div><div>On Apr 23, 2008, at 8:06 AM, Tony K wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">Very interesting and pertinent (to recent discussions) article from Robert about surviving as an artist.<br><br><a href="http://robertrich.com/1000-true-fans-an-answer/">http://robertrich.com/1000-true-fans-an-answer/</a><br clear="all"> <br>-- <br>-==-=-=- <br>Tony</blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>
--Apple-Mail-3-890869897--

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Subject: Re: AMENDED FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
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Kaki King
- did anyone mention her yet?

Arve Henriksen (Norway)
-  incredible trumpet player and improviser. uses live looping in his  
solo work and also in his band Supersilent

(also recorded with Imogen Heap, along with previously mentioned Mich  
Gerber)

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oops, didn't see you'd already posted it. i'm a bit behind here.
there sure are a lot of looper's delight messages to sift through!  
you guys have been busy!! (er, or not ;-) )

On Apr 23, 2008, at 7:57 AM, RP Collier wrote:

>
> Robert Rich response on the idea of "1000 true fans model" :
>
> http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/04/the_reality_of.php
>
>
> regards
>
>
> BobC
>
>
>
> http://cdbaby.com/cd/rpcollier3
> http://tinyurl.com/yt8f8j
> http://www.youtube.com/tynego
>

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I think it's been quite obvious for a long time that the only way to
make money with music, even if you're a star, is by selling T-shirts.
Until you can digitally download a t-shirt, that will probably
continue to be the main model, imho.

(this is only half-joking)

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Technically, you're not making money from music at that point: you're using
music to market your t-shirts.
I've heard so many people say that they prefer to support bands via buying
t-shirts at shows, but I don't see people wearing band t-shirts very often.
 Certainly not local bands.  And t-shirts are a pain in the ass to
stock--there's only one size CD, but several sizes of t-shirts.

TH

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:02 PM, Warren Sirota <wsirota@wsdesigns.com>
wrote:

> I think it's been quite obvious for a long time that the only way to
> make money with music, even if you're a star, is by selling T-shirts.
> Until you can digitally download a t-shirt, that will probably
> continue to be the main model, imho.
>
> (this is only half-joking)
>
>

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Technically, you&#39;re not making money from music at that point: you&#39;re using music to market your t-shirts.<div><br></div><div>I&#39;ve heard so many people say that they prefer to support bands via buying t-shirts at shows, but I don&#39;t see people wearing band t-shirts very often. &nbsp;Certainly not local bands. &nbsp;And t-shirts are a pain in the ass to stock--there&#39;s only one size CD, but several sizes of t-shirts.</div>
<div><br></div><div>TH<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:02 PM, Warren Sirota &lt;<a href="mailto:wsirota@wsdesigns.com">wsirota@wsdesigns.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
I think it&#39;s been quite obvious for a long time that the only way to<br>
make money with music, even if you&#39;re a star, is by selling T-shirts.<br>
Until you can digitally download a t-shirt, that will probably<br>
continue to be the main model, imho.<br>
<br>
(this is only half-joking)<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

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When I had my band (of the indie rock variety, a genre whose crowd wears 
local band t-shirts as a point of pride), we made equally as much money 
from t-shirts as from CD's. It's all about putting a bit of time into 
making a good design. Then you have a textile business offsetting the 
thankless money pit that is a rock band.

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com

> Technically, you're not making money from music at that point: you're 
> using music to market your t-shirts.
>
> I've heard so many people say that they prefer to support bands via 
> buying t-shirts at shows, but I don't see people wearing band t-shirts 
> very often.  Certainly not local bands.  And t-shirts are a pain in 
> the ass to stock--there's only one size CD, but several sizes of t-shirts.
>
> TH
>
> On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:02 PM, Warren Sirota <wsirota@wsdesigns.com 
> <mailto:wsirota@wsdesigns.com>> wrote:
>
>     I think it's been quite obvious for a long time that the only way to
>     make money with music, even if you're a star, is by selling T-shirts.
>     Until you can digitally download a t-shirt, that will probably
>     continue to be the main model, imho.
>
>     (this is only half-joking)
>

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The last few shows I've gone to didn't have my size t-shirts.  Extra super
big 3X.  I've had cash in hand... I won't, however, spend the $50 I've seen
shirts go for.  That's nuts.  The last metal show I saw (SymphonyX) the
shirts were $25.  But not my size.  Their loss.  I have all the CDs, I'd
have spent more to support the band, but not if there's no merch!

Tony

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Travis Hartnett <travishartnett@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Technically, you're not making money from music at that point: you're
> using music to market your t-shirts.
> I've heard so many people say that they prefer to support bands via buying
> t-shirts at shows, but I don't see people wearing band t-shirts very often.
>  Certainly not local bands.  And t-shirts are a pain in the ass to
> stock--there's only one size CD, but several sizes of t-shirts.
>
> TH
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:02 PM, Warren Sirota <wsirota@wsdesigns.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I think it's been quite obvious for a long time that the only way to
> > make money with music, even if you're a star, is by selling T-shirts.
> > Until you can digitally download a t-shirt, that will probably
> > continue to be the main model, imho.
> >
> > (this is only half-joking)
> >
> >
>

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The last few shows I&#39;ve gone to didn&#39;t have my size t-shirts.&nbsp; Extra super big 3X.&nbsp; I&#39;ve had cash in hand... I won&#39;t, however, spend the $50 I&#39;ve seen shirts go for.&nbsp; That&#39;s nuts.&nbsp; The last metal show I saw (SymphonyX) the shirts were $25.&nbsp; But not my size.&nbsp; Their loss.&nbsp; I have all the CDs, I&#39;d have spent more to support the band, but not if there&#39;s no merch!<br>
<br>Tony<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Travis Hartnett &lt;<a href="mailto:travishartnett@gmail.com">travishartnett@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Technically, you&#39;re not making money from music at that point: you&#39;re using music to market your t-shirts.<div><br></div><div>I&#39;ve heard so many people say that they prefer to support bands via buying t-shirts at shows, but I don&#39;t see people wearing band t-shirts very often. &nbsp;Certainly not local bands. &nbsp;And t-shirts are a pain in the ass to stock--there&#39;s only one size CD, but several sizes of t-shirts.</div>

<div><br></div><div><font color="#888888">TH</font><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:02 PM, Warren Sirota &lt;<a href="mailto:wsirota@wsdesigns.com" target="_blank">wsirota@wsdesigns.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
I think it&#39;s been quite obvious for a long time that the only way to<br>
make money with music, even if you&#39;re a star, is by selling T-shirts.<br>
Until you can digitally download a t-shirt, that will probably<br>
continue to be the main model, imho.<br>
<br>
(this is only half-joking)<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br>

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Is this a viable revenue stream once you're out of the indie rock
demographic?
TH

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:27 PM, Daryl Shawn <highhorse@mhorse.com> wrote:

> When I had my band (of the indie rock variety, a genre whose crowd wears
> local band t-shirts as a point of pride), we made equally as much money from
> t-shirts as from CD's. It's all about putting a bit of time into making a
> good design. Then you have a textile business offsetting the thankless money
> pit that is a rock band.
>
> Daryl Shawn
> www.swanwelder.com
> www.chinapaintingmusic.com
>

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Is this a viable revenue stream once you&#39;re out of the indie rock demographic?<div><br></div><div>TH<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:27 PM, Daryl Shawn &lt;<a href="mailto:highhorse@mhorse.com">highhorse@mhorse.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">When I had my band (of the indie rock variety, a genre whose crowd wears local band t-shirts as a point of pride), we made equally as much money from t-shirts as from CD&#39;s. It&#39;s all about putting a bit of time into making a good design. Then you have a textile business offsetting the thankless money pit that is a rock band.<div class="Ih2E3d">
<br>
<br>
Daryl Shawn<br>
<a href="http://www.swanwelder.com" target="_blank">www.swanwelder.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com" target="_blank">www.chinapaintingmusic.com</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

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On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 8:40 PM, stevenguerrero <mesquamacus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Where would andrew bird fit? If he does...Lots of DL4 use

I vote for putting him among "the famous".

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com

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Good question. Anyone that's widely-known can sell a t-shirt, regardless 
of genre, but on the smaller-time end where most of us inhabit, I don't 
think so. Myself, I'd feel ridiculous at this point trying to sell a 
shirt with my name on it. Not to say I won't try someday - I like t-shirts.

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com

> Is this a viable revenue stream once you're out of the indie rock 
> demographic?
>
> TH
>
> On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:27 PM, Daryl Shawn <highhorse@mhorse.com 
> <mailto:highhorse@mhorse.com>> wrote:
>
>     When I had my band (of the indie rock variety, a genre whose crowd
>     wears local band t-shirts as a point of pride), we made equally as
>     much money from t-shirts as from CD's. It's all about putting a
>     bit of time into making a good design. Then you have a textile
>     business offsetting the thankless money pit that is a rock band.
>

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Subject: Re: AMENDED FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
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On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:35 PM, Per Boysen <perboysen@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 8:40 PM, stevenguerrero <mesquamacus@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > Where would andrew bird fit? If he does...Lots of DL4 use
>
> I vote for putting him among "the famous".
>

I don't know where he belongs on the list but I do know there will be snacks

Kevin

-- 

Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a
form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.

- Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)

Sound and Vision: http://www.minds-eye.org

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<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:35 PM, Per Boysen &lt;<a href="mailto:perboysen@gmail.com">perboysen@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 8:40 PM, stevenguerrero &lt;<a href="mailto:mesquamacus@yahoo.com">mesquamacus@yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; Where would andrew bird fit? If he does...Lots of DL4 use<br>
<br>
I vote for putting him among &quot;the famous&quot;.<br>
<font color="#888888"></font></blockquote><div><br>I don&#39;t know where he belongs on the list but I do know there will be snacks<br><br>Kevin</div></div><br>-- <br><br>Till now you seriously considered yourself to be the body and to have a<br>
form. That is the primal ignorance which is the root cause of all trouble.<br><br>- Ramana Maharshi (1879-1950)<br><br>Sound and Vision: <a href="http://www.minds-eye.org">http://www.minds-eye.org</a>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 21:09:07 2008
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Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:02:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: K D Patten <kdpatten@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: AMENDED FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
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Lurker surfacing......looks like Mr Keagy is as bizzy as ever....he was the first looping artist I've seen live back in the late 70s early 80s....blew this Iowa farm boy away!...kyle

Tony K <bigtonyk@gmail.com> wrote: Phil Keaggy has been doing looping lately.  I think he's famous. ;)

Tony

 


 Kyle Dean Patten P.O. Box 22 Johnston, IA  50131   http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kdpatten         
http://www.myspace.com/kyledeanpatten 





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Lurker surfacing......looks like Mr Keagy is as bizzy as ever....he was the first looping artist I've seen live back in the late 70s early 80s....blew this Iowa farm boy away!...kyle<br><br><b><i>Tony K &lt;bigtonyk@gmail.com&gt;</i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> Phil Keaggy has been doing looping lately.&nbsp; I think he's famous. ;)<br><br>Tony<br><br> </blockquote><br><BR><BR><div> <address><font color="#bf00bf" size="4">Kyle Dean Patten</font></address> <address>P.O. Box 22</address> <address>Johnston, IA&nbsp; 50131</address> <address>&nbsp;</address> <address><a href="http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kdpatten">http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kdpatten&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </a><br><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"></span><span style="color: rgb(128, 128, 255);"><span style="color: rgb(64, 64, 255);">http://www.myspace.com/kyledeanpatten</span>
 </span><br><br><br><br></address></div>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 21:13:00 2008
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Subject: Re: Robert Rich article
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:12:56 -0700
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My band (Eleven Eyes) works in some wierd gray area between the jam band =
and jazz scenes, and our merch sales are probably split about 50/50 =
between CD's and shirts. But, of the 2, shirts are the bigger headache, =
they are more expensive per unit to produce because of the minimums on =
each size, and you can never have all the sizes and styles that people =
ask for. Plus, at each sale, instead of handing them a CD and taking the =
cash, you have to dig through the merch case to see if you even have the =
requested size, and sit through the inevitable "I dunno, do you think it =
makes my butt look big?" Shirts ultimately pay for themselves, but as =
far as shirt-sales subsidizing a music career, in our case, a regionally =
touring band that stays very busy, if we depended on shirt sales, we'd =
be even poorer than we are now.
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Travis Hartnett=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 1:30 PM
  Subject: Re: Robert Rich article


  Is this a viable revenue stream once you're out of the indie rock =
demographic?


  TH


  On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:27 PM, Daryl Shawn <highhorse@mhorse.com> =
wrote:

    When I had my band (of the indie rock variety, a genre whose crowd =
wears local band t-shirts as a point of pride), we made equally as much =
money from t-shirts as from CD's. It's all about putting a bit of time =
into making a good design. Then you have a textile business offsetting =
the thankless money pit that is a rock band.


    Daryl Shawn
    www.swanwelder.com
    www.chinapaintingmusic.com



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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My band (Eleven Eyes)&nbsp;works in =
some wierd gray=20
area between the jam band and jazz scenes, and our merch sales are =
probably=20
split about 50/50 between CD's and shirts. But, of the 2, shirts are the =
bigger=20
headache, they are more expensive per unit to produce because of the =
minimums on=20
each size, and you can never have all the sizes and styles that people =
ask for.=20
Plus, at each sale, instead of handing them a CD and taking the cash, =
you have=20
to dig through the merch case to see if you even have the requested =
size, and=20
sit through the inevitable "I dunno, do you think it makes my butt look =
big?"=20
Shirts ultimately pay for themselves, but as far as shirt-sales =
subsidizing a=20
music career, in our case, a regionally touring band that stays very =
busy, if we=20
depended on shirt sales, we'd be even poorer than we are =
now.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dtravishartnett@gmail.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:travishartnett@gmail.com">Travis Hartnett</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 23, 2008 =
1:30=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Robert Rich =
article</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>Is this a viable revenue stream once you're out of the =
indie=20
  rock demographic?
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>TH<BR><BR>
  <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:27 PM, Daryl Shawn =
&lt;<A=20
  href=3D"mailto:highhorse@mhorse.com">highhorse@mhorse.com</A>&gt; =
wrote:<BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: =
#ccc 1px solid">When=20
    I had my band (of the indie rock variety, a genre whose crowd wears =
local=20
    band t-shirts as a point of pride), we made equally as much money =
from=20
    t-shirts as from CD's. It's all about putting a bit of time into =
making a=20
    good design. Then you have a textile business offsetting the =
thankless money=20
    pit that is a rock band.
    <DIV class=3DIh2E3d><BR><BR>Daryl Shawn<BR><A =
href=3D"http://www.swanwelder.com"=20
    target=3D_blank>www.swanwelder.com</A><BR><A=20
    href=3D"http://www.chinapaintingmusic.com"=20
    =
target=3D_blank>www.chinapaintingmusic.com</A><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DI=
V><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 22:13:21 2008
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Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:08:59 -0400
From: Bill Fox <billyfox@soundscapes.us>
Subject: Re: Announcing electro-music 2008
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On Loopers Delight, Scott Kellogg wrote:
> The first year there were some Featured Artists that may have had some 
> financial assistance.  This is complete speculation and not intended 
> to be rumor mongering.  But, hey, they flew from the Netherlands :)
Wave World didn't get paid a dime from the festival and paid for their 
own vacation to the US.  Like everyone else, they had to pay to ATTEND.  
No one paid to play and no one got paid for playing.  The organizers 
wish they could pay SOMETHING to the performers, but the low ticket 
price makes that impossible.  They'd rather keep the event affordable 
for people to attend.  They make no profit and still provide the server 
for the entire electro-music community out of pocket year round.  Like 
someone said, it's like a convention.  Very cool people making music, 
giving talks, giving demos, having jam sessions, etc.  And they streamed 
the concerts for those who couldn't attend.  (I don't know if this 
year's facility has internet.)

This year, Moog Foundation will be represented.  In fact, they'll be 
staffing the door!

Cheers,

Bill

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 How 'bout band brand logo Cologn?  or BarBQ sauce. For Eleven Eyes ,eyebal=
l cufflinks.

_________________________________________________________________
In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_Refr=
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 Much to my embarrassment it has been pointed out to me,by an oftentimes  r=
eliable source, that no-one has added Rick Walker to the list of famous loo=
pers,a glaring oversight indeed.

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize!
http://www.gowindowslive.com/Mobile/Landing/Messenger/Default.aspx?Locale=
=3Den-US?ocid=3DTAG_APRIL=

--_55b6257a-d547-489f-b384-b2ba377a26c1_
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</head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'>
 Much to my embarrassment it has been pointed out to me,by an oftentimes  r=
eliable source, that no-one has added Rick Walker to the list of famous loo=
pers,a glaring oversight indeed.
<br /><hr />Express yourself wherever you are. <a href=3D'http://www.gowind=
owslive.com/Mobile/Landing/Messenger/Default.aspx?Locale=3Den-US?ocid=3DTAG=
_APRIL' target=3D'_new'>Mobilize!</a></body>
</html>=

--_55b6257a-d547-489f-b384-b2ba377a26c1_--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 23:30:32 2008
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Subject: Re: OT tSHirts merCH Shwag
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:30:29 -0700
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We've thought about doing custom eye patches with our logo. I mean, some =
bands do thongs so why not eye patches? It'd sell to the Pirate =
demographic.

On a more serious level, what about vinyl records as merch? I work at a =
record store (yes, they do still exist), and easily a fourth of our =
sales are vinyl. I've seen a number of bands who will release a disc on =
vinyl and include a free MP3 download of the CD, thus bypassing the =
whole CD medium. Anybody here pressed vinyl recently? My last one was an =
EP from 1991.
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: samba -=20
  To: loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 4:15 PM
  Subject: OT tSHirts merCH Shwag


   How 'bout band brand logo Cologn?  or BarBQ sauce. For Eleven Eyes =
,eyeball cufflinks.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>We've thought about doing custom eye patches =
with our=20
logo. I mean, some bands do thongs so why not eye patches? It'd sell to =
the=20
Pirate demographic.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>On a more serious level, what about vinyl =
records as=20
merch? I work at a record store (yes, they do still exist), and easily a =
fourth=20
of our sales are vinyl. I've seen a number of bands who will release a =
disc on=20
vinyl and include a free MP3 download of the CD, thus bypassing the =
whole CD=20
medium. Anybody here pressed vinyl recently? My last one was an EP from=20
1991.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dsambacomet@hotmail.com =
href=3D"mailto:sambacomet@hotmail.com">samba=20
  -</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3Dloopers-delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com">loopers-delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 23, 2008 =
4:15=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> OT tSHirts merCH =
Shwag</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>&nbsp;How 'bout band brand logo Cologn?&nbsp; or BarBQ =
sauce.=20
  For Eleven Eyes ,eyeball cufflinks.<BR><BR>
  <HR>
  In a rush? <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=3DTXT_TAG=
LM_WL_Refresh_realtime_042008"=20
  target=3D_new>Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger.</A>=20
</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 23:44:30 2008
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From: "Rick Walker" <looppool@cruzio.com>
To: "LOOPERS DELIGHT \(posting\)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: FAVORITE LIVE LOOPERS:   a new list
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:44:33 -0700
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I realized that from all the responses to the thread I started about
famous live loopers that it's pretty obvious that we should start a
new list of our favorite live loopers.

I didn't say it in my initial posting, but the first list got started merely
as a selling point to journalists that we are trying to get interested
in live looping.

Obviously, someone like David Torn, who has used live looping integrally in 
his music
for years and years is on a different level, aethetically, with his looping 
than say
some one like Eddie Vedder who used some live looping in his concert in 
Santa Cruz
last week,  but the fact is that millions and millions of people know Eddie 
Vedder,
(just as tens of thousands know about  David Torn and thousands know about 
Zoe Keating)  so this is
something that I can use when I am trying to spread the gospel of this thing 
we love
to music journalists, radio DJs and television producers.

Spiritually, that means that this list is going to be necessarily 
superficial and unsatisfying to
lots of people on this list. I completely know that.
Oddly enough,  the intent is not a popularity list,  just a hook the 
journalists list so they can start
paying attention to the people on the next list I"m going to suggest that we 
start.

Now, let's get down to the real nitty gritty.

WHO ARE OUR FAVORITE LOOPERS?   OUR MOST INFLUENTIAL LOOPERS?
(mass fame has no bearing on this list)

please resubmit anyone mentioned before for this one. 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 23 23:45:55 2008
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I did a vinyl single in 2001. Even then - before the iPod - not a lot of 
people bought 'em, but I'm so glad I did it. I went to the mastering 
session (taking the 1/4" mix on the plane with me - it was a 100% analog 
recording, no digital processes at all) just so I could see the lathe 
and scratch cryptic messages in the inner groove.

I love vinyl so much. Hope I get the chance (or make the indulgent 
excuse) to do it again.

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com

> We've thought about doing custom eye patches with our logo. I mean, 
> some bands do thongs so why not eye patches? It'd sell to the Pirate 
> demographic.
>  
> On a more serious level, what about vinyl records as merch? I work at 
> a record store (yes, they do still exist), and easily a fourth of our 
> sales are vinyl. I've seen a number of bands who will release a disc 
> on vinyl and include a free MP3 download of the CD, thus bypassing the 
> whole CD medium. Anybody here pressed vinyl recently? My last one was 
> an EP from 1991.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 24 00:53:43 2008
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Subject: Re: Announcing electro-music 2008
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:53:34 -0400
References: <j00b36k3LKfX7c.RZmta@mo-p07-ob.rzone.de> <01a601c8a401$ed0d1800$6601a8c0@americas.hpqcorp.net> <1AE4E20E-A701-48DF-B0C0-FFE50D733D62@gmail.com> <013e01c8a410$bb24eb10$5901a8c0@bobdell> <20080422084143.1c44b5551c48owk4@mail.kevinkissinger.com> <101191640804220744m772eee55ucf03d1272cd6834f@mail.gmail.com> <66f9cc1e0804220814m739e9cf4k546ef91362785208@mail.gmail.com> <30783619.1208877891877.JavaMail.root@m05> <480FB37B.4050101@soundscapes.us>
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>>

It's good to know the real story.  Thank you for setting the record =20
straight.   Wave World was one of the most amazing bands I've ever =20
seen.   The standing ovation they got was well deserved.

> Wave World didn't get paid a dime from the festival and paid for =20
> their own vacation to the US.  Like everyone else, they had to pay =20
> to ATTEND.  No one paid to play and no one got paid for playing.  =20
> The organizers wish they could pay SOMETHING to


--
"However, faced with a fixed set of options, you are forced to employ =20=

those special, mystical powers =97 imagination and creativity."
- Paul Nagle






From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 24 01:03:20 2008
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Subject: INFAMY
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:02:15 -0700
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i'd personally like to see a list of INfamous loopers.

or even better,

FAMOUS INfamous Looping Moments Throughout History (FILMTHs):




From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 24 01:22:58 2008
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Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 10:22:47 +0900
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Mech <mech@m3ch.net>
Subject: Re: AMENDED FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS
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At 6:26 AM -0700 4/23/08, Rick Walker wrote:
>
>in our own community (and I include these names as people who seem
>to be prominent in the community and/or people who have done a lot of work
>promoting live looping by having larger looping festivals.   This is, of
>course,  off the top of
>my head.   Have I missed people in this list?   My apologies if I have.

Oh yeah, here's one that definitely belongs in the influential 
category -- just as much in recognized academic and journalistic 
circles as amongst the performers here: DR. RICHARD ZVONAR.

	--m.
-- 
_____
"the wind in my heart; the dust in my head...."

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 24 01:32:04 2008
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Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 21:32:02 -0400
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right on, Mech, don't know how we missed that.  We drink to you Richard!
T.



On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 9:22 PM, Mech <mech@m3ch.net> wrote:

> At 6:26 AM -0700 4/23/08, Rick Walker wrote:
>
> >
> > in our own community (and I include these names as people who seem
> > to be prominent in the community and/or people who have done a lot of
> > work
> > promoting live looping by having larger looping festivals.   This is, of
> > course,  off the top of
> > my head.   Have I missed people in this list?   My apologies if I have.
> >
>
> Oh yeah, here's one that definitely belongs in the influential category --
> just as much in recognized academic and journalistic circles as amongst the
> performers here: DR. RICHARD ZVONAR.
>
>        --m.
> --
> _____
> "the wind in my heart; the dust in my head...."
>
>


-- 
http://www.toddreynolds.com |:
http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic |:
------------------------------------------------------|:
917.576.6166
todd@toddreynolds.com
toddreyn@gmail.com

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right on, Mech, don&#39;t know how we missed that. &nbsp;We drink to you Richard!<div><br></div><div>T.</div><div><br></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 9:22 PM, Mech &lt;<a href="mailto:mech@m3ch.net">mech@m3ch.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">At 6:26 AM -0700 4/23/08, Rick Walker wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
in our own community (and I include these names as people who seem<br>
to be prominent in the community and/or people who have done a lot of work<br>
promoting live looping by having larger looping festivals. &nbsp; This is, of<br>
course, &nbsp;off the top of<br>
my head. &nbsp; Have I missed people in this list? &nbsp; My apologies if I have.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Oh yeah, here&#39;s one that definitely belongs in the influential category -- just as much in recognized academic and journalistic circles as amongst the performers here: DR. RICHARD ZVONAR.<br>
<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;--m.<br><font color="#888888">
-- <br>
_____<br>
&quot;the wind in my heart; the dust in my head....&quot;<br>
<br>
</font></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><a href="http://www.toddreynolds.com">http://www.toddreynolds.com</a> |:<br><a href="http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic">http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic</a> |:<br>
------------------------------------------------------|:<br>917.576.6166 <br><a href="mailto:todd@toddreynolds.com">todd@toddreynolds.com</a><br><a href="mailto:toddreyn@gmail.com">toddreyn@gmail.com</a>
</div>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 24 01:35:03 2008
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Some people really have a fetish for FILMTHs, I think...

As much as I love David Torn - and I really, really love him - I 
nominate him for this list for his habit of creating a massive loop, 
then letting it continue unaided as he pops to the bar for a beer, or 
once when he saw him, to call his kids in the middle of the show. As if 
we need more proof that the technology is doing all the hard work...!

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com

> i'd personally like to see a list of INfamous loopers.
>
> or even better,
>
> FAMOUS INfamous Looping Moments Throughout History (FILMTHs):
>
>
>
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 24 02:41:52 2008
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From: Teddy Kumpel <teddybut@mac.com>
Subject: Re: FAVORITE LIVE LOOPERS:   a new list
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:41:46 -0400
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All ego aside... I am my own favorite looper.
I guess Imogen is a close second.

Teddy Kumpel and Mister Shifty

On Apr 23, 2008, at 7:44 PM, Rick Walker wrote:

> I realized that from all the responses to the thread I started about
> famous live loopers that it's pretty obvious that we should start a
> new list of our favorite live loopers.
>
> I didn't say it in my initial posting, but the first list got  
> started merely
> as a selling point to journalists that we are trying to get interested
> in live looping.
>
> Obviously, someone like David Torn, who has used live looping  
> integrally in his music
> for years and years is on a different level, aethetically, with his  
> looping than say
> some one like Eddie Vedder who used some live looping in his  
> concert in Santa Cruz
> last week,  but the fact is that millions and millions of people  
> know Eddie Vedder,
> (just as tens of thousands know about  David Torn and thousands  
> know about Zoe Keating)  so this is
> something that I can use when I am trying to spread the gospel of  
> this thing we love
> to music journalists, radio DJs and television producers.
>
> Spiritually, that means that this list is going to be necessarily  
> superficial and unsatisfying to
> lots of people on this list. I completely know that.
> Oddly enough,  the intent is not a popularity list,  just a hook  
> the journalists list so they can start
> paying attention to the people on the next list I"m going to  
> suggest that we start.
>
> Now, let's get down to the real nitty gritty.
>
> WHO ARE OUR FAVORITE LOOPERS?   OUR MOST INFLUENTIAL LOOPERS?
> (mass fame has no bearing on this list)
>
> please resubmit anyone mentioned before for this one.

--
PS.
--
EPK

my band, Mister Shifty, is doing some shows at Nightingale Lounge...

Featuring
Teddy K - gtr, vocals, toy keyboard, kazoo and cb mic
Matt Miller on drums
? on bass

every Thursday in April
all shows 8pm, 2 long sets

http://nightingalelounge.com

212.473.9398

213 Second Avenue
(NW Corner of East 13th St. & 2nd Ave.)
NYC 10003
Trains: L,N,Q,R,W,4,5,6 to Union Square/ 14th Street, L to 1st Avenue

more gigs:
April 25th at Banjo jim's, nyc 8pm (opening for Lenny Kaye)
April 26th at Ace of Clubs, nyc 11pm (chris crosby's birthday party)

we are part of the following sites:
jam base
my space


--
Teddybut's song "My Country" is featured on Neil Young's "LIVING   
WITH WAR TODAY" site
__
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long  
plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die  
like dogs. There's also a negative side."
   --Hunter S. Thompson




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We did a 45 for the last album and mailed those to radio stations that
played vinyl and journalists who review it.  It gets people's attention.
 Virtually none of our friends (including 3/4 of the band) have turntables,
so it didn't really function as a way to get them to listen to the music.
 Actual sales were also practically nil.
TH

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Dave Trenkel <improv@peak.org> wrote:

>  aphic.
>
> On a more serious level, what about vinyl records as merch? I work at a
> record store (yes, they do still exist), and easily a fourth of our sales
> are vinyl. I've seen a number of bands who will release a disc on vinyl and
> include a free MP3 download of the CD, thus bypassing the whole CD medium.
> Anybody here pressed vinyl recently? My last one was an EP from 1991.
>

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We did a 45 for the last album and mailed those to radio stations that played vinyl and journalists who review it. &nbsp;It gets people&#39;s attention. &nbsp;Virtually none of our friends (including 3/4 of the band) have turntables, so it didn&#39;t really function as a way to get them to listen to the music. &nbsp;Actual sales were also practically nil.<div>
<br></div><div>TH<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Dave Trenkel &lt;<a href="mailto:improv@peak.org">improv@peak.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">






<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Arial">aphic.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face="Arial">On a more serious level, what about vinyl records as 
merch? I work at a record store (yes, they do still exist), and easily a fourth 
of our sales are vinyl. I&#39;ve seen a number of bands who will release a disc on 
vinyl and include a free MP3 download of the CD, thus bypassing the whole CD 
medium. Anybody here pressed vinyl recently? My last one was an EP from 
1991.</font></div></div></blockquote></div></div>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 24 03:44:33 2008
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From: "Rick Walker" <looppool@cruzio.com>
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Subject: guitarists for BOWIE, NIN and MADONNA
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Can anyone confirm whether the guitarists for 
DAVID BOWIE,  NINE INCH NAILS and MADONNA 
are using live looping technology onstage?

I have heard that they do, but don't know for sure.


live loopers in other really big pop bands, per chance?
I know RADIOHEAD and BJORK's musicians have 
used the technology in concert.

thanks,   Rick

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVky7hwuebU

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<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVky7hwuebU">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVky7hwuebU</a><br>

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> Rick wrote:
> live loopers in other really big pop bands, per chance?
> I know RADIOHEAD and BJORK's musicians have 
> used the technology in concert.

I wouldn't be supprised if Sigur Ros uses live looping as well. They make=
 a kind of ambient rock and are coming from Iceland.=0A

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Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:06:25 +0200
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Subject: Re: COLLATED FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS: amended again
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>
> Someone also mentioned Brian Eno, but really, I have never been aware that
> he was using live looping
> with the excpetion of his work with Robert Fripp early on.   Am I mistaken
> because he'd definitely qualify
> as a famous looper if he is , indeed using live looping methods in his
> composition.
>

DEEERRR Rick!!! Oh come on... Its Rober Fripp who nicked the idea off Brian
Eno remember???  Brian Eno  printed the diagram of the double Revox system
in his Discreet nusic Album  THAT USED THIS SYSTEM  therfore yes Brian Eno
HAS used Live looping... not sure if it qualfys him as a live looper tho, Im
sure most producers have used really long delays at some time, but Discreet
Music as an Album is most definately Live Looping.  And thankfully no sign
of Fripp anywhere!!!

Twas my first introduction to looping, and I have one photo of me using that
system in about 1982 with long hair and a tie dyed Tshirt... Yikes!

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<br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br>
Someone also mentioned Brian Eno, but really, I have never been aware that he was using live looping<br>
with the excpetion of his work with Robert Fripp early on. &nbsp; Am I mistaken because he&#39;d definitely qualify<br>
as a famous looper if he is , indeed using live looping methods in his composition.<br>
</blockquote><div><br>DEEERRR Rick!!! Oh come on... Its Rober Fripp who nicked the idea off Brian Eno remember???&nbsp; Brian Eno&nbsp; printed the diagram of the double Revox system in his Discreet nusic Album&nbsp; THAT USED THIS SYSTEM&nbsp; therfore yes Brian Eno HAS used Live looping... not sure if it qualfys him as a live looper tho, Im sure most producers have used really long delays at some time, but Discreet Music as an Album is most definately Live Looping.&nbsp; And thankfully no sign of Fripp anywhere!!! <br>
<br>Twas my first introduction to looping, and I have one photo of me using that system in about 1982 with long hair and a tie dyed Tshirt... Yikes!<br><br><br></div></div>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 24 06:39:55 2008
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Subject: RE: guitarists for BOWIE, NIN and MADONNA
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 08:39:49 +0200
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somewhat OT here, but I just discovered Nine Inch Nails' instrumental GHOSTS
CD and I love it. 
http://ghosts.nin.com/main/home
not much looping going on if any, but wonderful music nonetheless

-Michael

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 24 07:13:54 2008
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Subject: Re: COLLATED FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS: amended again
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 09:13:52 +0200
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Brian Eno did live treatments on Phil Manzanera's guitar using tape.  
Have a look at this - the solo starts after 4 minutes. Is there some  
use of looping?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3D2JSBxjzI

On Apr 24, 2008, at 8:06 AM, mark francombe wrote:

>
>
> Someone also mentioned Brian Eno, but really, I have never been  
> aware that he was using live looping
> with the excpetion of his work with Robert Fripp early on.   Am I  
> mistaken because he'd definitely qualify
> as a famous looper if he is , indeed using live looping methods in  
> his composition.
>
> DEEERRR Rick!!! Oh come on... Its Rober Fripp who nicked the idea  
> off Brian Eno remember???  Brian Eno  printed the diagram of the  
> double Revox system in his Discreet nusic Album  THAT USED THIS  
> SYSTEM  therfore yes Brian Eno HAS used Live looping... not sure if  
> it qualfys him as a live looper tho, Im sure most producers have  
> used really long delays at some time, but Discreet Music as an Album  
> is most definately Live Looping.  And thankfully no sign of Fripp  
> anywhere!!!
>
> Twas my first introduction to looping, and I have one photo of me  
> using that system in about 1982 with long hair and a tie dyed  
> Tshirt... Yikes!
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 24 07:38:35 2008
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Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 09:38:34 +0200
From: "Per Boysen" <perboysen@gmail.com>
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On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 1:19 AM, samba - <sambacomet@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Much to my embarrassment it has been pointed out to me,by an oftentimes
> reliable source, that no-one has added Rick Walker to the list of famous
> loopers,a glaring oversight indeed.


Good point! I think most of us noticed that right away and took his
name as understood in the listing. It's just not custom to mention
oneself in a presentation and Rick was the one that originally posted
that list. Makes me think of funny episodes on stage where the guy who
starts introducing the band to the audience sometimes never gets
introduced himself because when he has finished his excellent band
presentation no one else grabs the moment to introduce him before the
applauding starts and the band needs level up again. Doesn't happen to
experienced bands but quite often in jam sessions ;-))

Except for being a live looping musician Rick Walker should also be
mentioned as one of the driving forces in the global live looping
community.

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 24 07:58:33 2008
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	DEEERRR Rick!!! Oh come on... Its Rober Fripp who nicked the idea
off Brian Eno remember???  Brian Eno  printed the diagram of the double
Revox system in his Discreet nusic Album  THAT USED THIS SYSTEM  therfore
yes Brian Eno HAS used Live looping... not sure if it qualfys him as a live
looper tho, Im sure most producers have used really long delays at some
time, 

This sounds nice, but is not a very scientific approach of argument. Most
probably Eno saw the thing during one of Riley's allnighters.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 24 09:51:17 2008
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Thanks Michael!

Love the music Reznor does, it's the lyrics that put me off.. so a free 
instrumental download is very welcome.
(Side note, not-looping but saw Eric Burdon with War at the Albert Hall 
monday.  Burdon was in fine voice and came on after War had been playing for 
about a half-hour - opened with "The World Is A Ghetto", wonderful 
over-two-hour show!).

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Peters" <mp@mpeters.de>
To: "Loopers Delight" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 7:39 AM
Subject: RE: guitarists for BOWIE, NIN and MADONNA


> somewhat OT here, but I just discovered Nine Inch Nails' instrumental 
> GHOSTS
> CD and I love it.
> http://ghosts.nin.com/main/home
> not much looping going on if any, but wonderful music nonetheless
>
> -Michael
>
>
>
>
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 24 10:09:18 2008
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http://www.viruscomix.com/sympathiestotheband.jpg

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Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 03:12:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: FAVORITE LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS ON THIS LIST
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Two favorite loopers of mine on this list who havent
been mentioned but have helped me a lot throught their
killer informative websites are:

GLEN POORMAN http://www.poorman.ws/detroitstick/

and 

DAVE EICHENBERGER http://www.daveeichenberger.com/

Check them out!
cheers
Luis

www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


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Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 03:18:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: INFAMY
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
In-Reply-To: <E4DC5C0E-F583-40EB-B311-40FFC6116D5D@zoekeating.com>
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I dont personally feel comfortable with the word
"famous"
leave that to people like Fripp,Torn,Belew,Terry
Riley,Eno,etc.
I would  rather say "favorite on this list"
also perhpas "fathers" or "founders" of LD
the problem is too many of you are dear favorites!
cheers
Luis



--- info at zoekeating <info@zoekeating.com> wrote:

> i'd personally like to see a list of INfamous
> loopers.
> 
> or even better,
> 
> FAMOUS INfamous Looping Moments Throughout History
> (FILMTHs):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


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Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 03:19:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: FAVORITE LIVE LOOPERS:   a new list
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Rock on Teddy!!
Ill vote for you if you run for president!
Luis





--- Teddy Kumpel <teddybut@mac.com> wrote:

> All ego aside... I am my own favorite looper.
> I guess Imogen is a close second.
> 
> Teddy Kumpel and Mister Shifty
> 
> On Apr 23, 2008, at 7:44 PM, Rick Walker wrote:
> 
> > I realized that from all the responses to the
> thread I started about
> > famous live loopers that it's pretty obvious that
> we should start a
> > new list of our favorite live loopers.
> >
> > I didn't say it in my initial posting, but the
> first list got  
> > started merely
> > as a selling point to journalists that we are
> trying to get interested
> > in live looping.
> >
> > Obviously, someone like David Torn, who has used
> live looping  
> > integrally in his music
> > for years and years is on a different level,
> aethetically, with his  
> > looping than say
> > some one like Eddie Vedder who used some live
> looping in his  
> > concert in Santa Cruz
> > last week,  but the fact is that millions and
> millions of people  
> > know Eddie Vedder,
> > (just as tens of thousands know about  David Torn
> and thousands  
> > know about Zoe Keating)  so this is
> > something that I can use when I am trying to
> spread the gospel of  
> > this thing we love
> > to music journalists, radio DJs and television
> producers.
> >
> > Spiritually, that means that this list is going to
> be necessarily  
> > superficial and unsatisfying to
> > lots of people on this list. I completely know
> that.
> > Oddly enough,  the intent is not a popularity
> list,  just a hook  
> > the journalists list so they can start
> > paying attention to the people on the next list
> I"m going to  
> > suggest that we start.
> >
> > Now, let's get down to the real nitty gritty.
> >
> > WHO ARE OUR FAVORITE LOOPERS?   OUR MOST
> INFLUENTIAL LOOPERS?
> > (mass fame has no bearing on this list)
> >
> > please resubmit anyone mentioned before for this
> one.
> 
> --
> PS.
> --
> EPK
> 
> my band, Mister Shifty, is doing some shows at
> Nightingale Lounge...
> 
> Featuring
> Teddy K - gtr, vocals, toy keyboard, kazoo and cb
> mic
> Matt Miller on drums
> ? on bass
> 
> every Thursday in April
> all shows 8pm, 2 long sets
> 
> http://nightingalelounge.com
> 
> 212.473.9398
> 
> 213 Second Avenue
> (NW Corner of East 13th St. & 2nd Ave.)
> NYC 10003
> Trains: L,N,Q,R,W,4,5,6 to Union Square/ 14th
> Street, L to 1st Avenue
> 
> more gigs:
> April 25th at Banjo jim's, nyc 8pm (opening for
> Lenny Kaye)
> April 26th at Ace of Clubs, nyc 11pm (chris crosby's
> birthday party)
> 
> we are part of the following sites:
> jam base
> my space
> 
> 
> --
> Teddybut's song "My Country" is featured on Neil
> Young's "LIVING   
> WITH WAR TODAY" site
> __
> "The music business is a cruel and shallow money
> trench, a long  
> plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free,
> and good men die  
> like dogs. There's also a negative side."
>    --Hunter S. Thompson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 06:37:29 -0400
From: Bill Fox <billyfox@soundscapes.us>
Subject: Listen to Afterglow and Galactic Travels
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
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AFTERGLOW ON WMUH:                      http://soundscapes.us/afterglow
=======================================================================
Afterglow airs from 8:00 am to 9:30 am every Thursday morning.  Tune in
for a delightful mix of eclectic musical genres including a healthy
dose of Progressive Rock.  Tune in at 91.7 FM or on the internet at:
http://muhlenberg.edu/wmuh
Check out Afterglow on MySpace at:
http://myspace.com/afterglowonwmuh

It is membership week at WMUH!  I have special thank you gifts for the
Afterglow listener including a Native American wooden flute and
instruction book.


GALACTIC TRAVELS ON WDIY:                   http://galactictravels.info
=======================================================================
Tonight at 11 pm on Galactic Travels, I'll conclude the month-long
Special Focus on Create.  The Featured CD at Midnight will be
"Biospherical Imagery" by Create on Groove Unlimited Records.  For
details, see the Special Focus page at:
http://wdiy.org/programs/gt/playlists/2008/focus.html#apr
Become a friend of Galactic Travels on MySpace at:
http://myspace.com/galactictravels

It's membership drive week and there are special thank you gifts
especially suited for listeners of Galactic Travels.

Galactic Travels is an electronic, ambient, and space music show that
airs each Thursday at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and
Bethlehem, 93.9 FM in Easton and Phillipsburg, 93.7 FM in Fogelsville
and Trexlertown, on the internet, and in High Definition Radio at 88.1
FM.


======================================================================
All times are EDT/GMT-4 during Daylight Saving Time.  We're *still*
five hours behind the UK and six hours behind mainland western Europe.

Listen on-line to WDIY at http://wdiy.org and click LISTEN or go
directly to: http://rm1.refugemedia.com/ramgen/encoder/wdiy.rm

Listen to WMUH on-line at http://www.muhlenberg.edu/wmuh and click one
of the LISTEN NOW links at the top right corner of the page or go
directly to:
rtsp://helix.muhlenberg.edu:554/broadcast/live.rm or
http://muhlenberg.edu/wmuh/WMUH.ram

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>>As much as I love David Torn - and I really, really love him - I
nominate him for this list for his habit of creating a massive loop,
then letting it continue unaided as he pops to the bar for a beer, or
once when he saw him, to call his kids in the middle of the show. As if
we need more proof that the technology is doing all the hard work...!<<

saw fripp do something similar back in 1995 in the lobby of QEH in
london; he was using solid-state loopers by then (TCs?), not the revoxes
(my first disappointment) & having created a couple of un-synced long
washes of super-distorted guitar tones (i.e. what anyone could do in a
few minutes with an e-bow) he wandered off to the side of the
performance area & started to chat with his tech.=20
his flight cases, which seemed to be way too much stuff for the noises
we were hearing, were also supporting small framed pics of his recently
deceased mother.
=20
yeah, it didn't seem like he was working too hard at it. him & eno both
seem to have this obsession with "letting the machines play", which
would be more interesting if the machines in this case weren't just
delay boxes.=20

(I like the idea of sseyo's koan, but setting it off, even in the right
direction, & then leaving it to it's own devices just doesn't do "it"
for me.)

I would've taken a picture of the scene, but you know how RF is about
that....

duncan.



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------=_Part_7623_28970305.1209039516722
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As an anarchist i am, i'm so excited voting ;-)

If I just can vote 1 time get the first on the list!

1) Michael Peters.
2) Markus Reuter.
3) Andre Lafosse.


Thanks Rick ...
Ra.

2008/4/24, L.A. Angulo <labaloops@yahoo.com>:
>
> Rock on Teddy!!
> Ill vote for you if you run for president!
> Luis
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Teddy Kumpel <teddybut@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > All ego aside... I am my own favorite looper.
> > I guess Imogen is a close second.
> >
> > Teddy Kumpel and Mister Shifty
> >
> > On Apr 23, 2008, at 7:44 PM, Rick Walker wrote:
> >
> > > I realized that from all the responses to the
> > thread I started about
> > > famous live loopers that it's pretty obvious that
> > we should start a
> > > new list of our favorite live loopers.
> > >
> > > I didn't say it in my initial posting, but the
> > first list got
> > > started merely
> > > as a selling point to journalists that we are
> > trying to get interested
> > > in live looping.
> > >
> > > Obviously, someone like David Torn, who has used
> > live looping
> > > integrally in his music
> > > for years and years is on a different level,
> > aethetically, with his
> > > looping than say
> > > some one like Eddie Vedder who used some live
> > looping in his
> > > concert in Santa Cruz
> > > last week,  but the fact is that millions and
> > millions of people
> > > know Eddie Vedder,
> > > (just as tens of thousands know about  David Torn
> > and thousands
> > > know about Zoe Keating)  so this is
> > > something that I can use when I am trying to
> > spread the gospel of
> > > this thing we love
> > > to music journalists, radio DJs and television
> > producers.
> > >
> > > Spiritually, that means that this list is going to
> > be necessarily
> > > superficial and unsatisfying to
> > > lots of people on this list. I completely know
> > that.
> > > Oddly enough,  the intent is not a popularity
> > list,  just a hook
> > > the journalists list so they can start
> > > paying attention to the people on the next list
> > I"m going to
> > > suggest that we start.
> > >
> > > Now, let's get down to the real nitty gritty.
> > >
> > > WHO ARE OUR FAVORITE LOOPERS?   OUR MOST
> > INFLUENTIAL LOOPERS?
> > > (mass fame has no bearing on this list)
> > >
> > > please resubmit anyone mentioned before for this
> > one.
> >
> > --
> > PS.
> > --
> > EPK
> >
> > my band, Mister Shifty, is doing some shows at
> > Nightingale Lounge...
> >
> > Featuring
> > Teddy K - gtr, vocals, toy keyboard, kazoo and cb
> > mic
> > Matt Miller on drums
> > ? on bass
> >
> > every Thursday in April
> > all shows 8pm, 2 long sets
> >
> > http://nightingalelounge.com
> >
> > 212.473.9398
> >
> > 213 Second Avenue
> > (NW Corner of East 13th St. & 2nd Ave.)
> > NYC 10003
> > Trains: L,N,Q,R,W,4,5,6 to Union Square/ 14th
> > Street, L to 1st Avenue
> >
> > more gigs:
> > April 25th at Banjo jim's, nyc 8pm (opening for
> > Lenny Kaye)
> > April 26th at Ace of Clubs, nyc 11pm (chris crosby's
> > birthday party)
> >
> > we are part of the following sites:
> > jam base
> > my space
> >
> >
> > --
> > Teddybut's song "My Country" is featured on Neil
> > Young's "LIVING
> > WITH WAR TODAY" site
> > __
> > "The music business is a cruel and shallow money
> > trench, a long
> > plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free,
> > and good men die
> > like dogs. There's also a negative side."
> >    --Hunter S. Thompson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> www.myspace.com/luisangulocom
>
>
>
>
>       ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>


-- 
The Playing Orchestra: http://www.telefonica.net/web2/tpo
Chain Tape Collective: http://www.ct-collective.com
TPO at myspace: http://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra
TPO at Jamendo: http://www.jamendo.com

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As an anarchist i am, i&#39;m so excited voting ;-)<br><br>If I just can vote 1 time get the first on the list!<br><br>1) Michael Peters.<br>2) Markus Reuter. <br>3) Andre Lafosse. <br><br><br>Thanks Rick ... <br>Ra.<br><br>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">2008/4/24, L.A. Angulo &lt;<a href="mailto:labaloops@yahoo.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">labaloops@yahoo.com</a>&gt;:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">

Rock on Teddy!!<br> Ill vote for you if you run for president!<br> Luis<br> <br><br> <br> <br> <br> <br> --- Teddy Kumpel &lt;<a href="mailto:teddybut@mac.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">teddybut@mac.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
 <br> &gt; All ego aside... I am my own favorite looper.<br>
 &gt; I guess Imogen is a close second.<br> &gt;<br> &gt; Teddy Kumpel and Mister Shifty<br> &gt;<br> &gt; On Apr 23, 2008, at 7:44 PM, Rick Walker wrote:<br> &gt;<br> &gt; &gt; I realized that from all the responses to the<br>

 &gt; thread I started about<br> &gt; &gt; famous live loopers that it&#39;s pretty obvious that<br> &gt; we should start a<br> &gt; &gt; new list of our favorite live loopers.<br> &gt; &gt;<br> &gt; &gt; I didn&#39;t say it in my initial posting, but the<br>

 &gt; first list got<br> &gt; &gt; started merely<br> &gt; &gt; as a selling point to journalists that we are<br> &gt; trying to get interested<br> &gt; &gt; in live looping.<br> &gt; &gt;<br> &gt; &gt; Obviously, someone like David Torn, who has used<br>

 &gt; live looping<br> &gt; &gt; integrally in his music<br> &gt; &gt; for years and years is on a different level,<br> &gt; aethetically, with his<br> &gt; &gt; looping than say<br> &gt; &gt; some one like Eddie Vedder who used some live<br>

 &gt; looping in his<br> &gt; &gt; concert in Santa Cruz<br> &gt; &gt; last week,&nbsp;&nbsp;but the fact is that millions and<br> &gt; millions of people<br> &gt; &gt; know Eddie Vedder,<br> &gt; &gt; (just as tens of thousands know about&nbsp;&nbsp;David Torn<br>

 &gt; and thousands<br> &gt; &gt; know about Zoe Keating)&nbsp;&nbsp;so this is<br> &gt; &gt; something that I can use when I am trying to<br> &gt; spread the gospel of<br> &gt; &gt; this thing we love<br> &gt; &gt; to music journalists, radio DJs and television<br>

 &gt; producers.<br> &gt; &gt;<br> &gt; &gt; Spiritually, that means that this list is going to<br> &gt; be necessarily<br> &gt; &gt; superficial and unsatisfying to<br> &gt; &gt; lots of people on this list. I completely know<br>

 &gt; that.<br> &gt; &gt; Oddly enough,&nbsp;&nbsp;the intent is not a popularity<br> &gt; list,&nbsp;&nbsp;just a hook<br> &gt; &gt; the journalists list so they can start<br> &gt; &gt; paying attention to the people on the next list<br> &gt; I&quot;m going to<br>

 &gt; &gt; suggest that we start.<br> &gt; &gt;<br> &gt; &gt; Now, let&#39;s get down to the real nitty gritty.<br> &gt; &gt;<br> &gt; &gt; WHO ARE OUR FAVORITE LOOPERS?&nbsp;&nbsp; OUR MOST<br> &gt; INFLUENTIAL LOOPERS?<br> &gt; &gt; (mass fame has no bearing on this list)<br>

 &gt; &gt;<br> &gt; &gt; please resubmit anyone mentioned before for this<br> &gt; one.<br> &gt;<br> &gt; --<br> &gt; PS.<br> &gt; --<br> &gt; EPK<br> &gt;<br> &gt; my band, Mister Shifty, is doing some shows at<br> &gt; Nightingale Lounge...<br>

 &gt;<br> &gt; Featuring<br> &gt; Teddy K - gtr, vocals, toy keyboard, kazoo and cb<br> &gt; mic<br> &gt; Matt Miller on drums<br> &gt; ? on bass<br> &gt;<br> &gt; every Thursday in April<br> &gt; all shows 8pm, 2 long sets<br>

 &gt;<br> &gt; <a href="http://nightingalelounge.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://nightingalelounge.com</a><br> &gt;<br> &gt; 212.473.9398<br> &gt;<br> &gt; 213 Second Avenue<br>
 &gt; (NW Corner of East 13th St. &amp; 2nd Ave.)<br> &gt; NYC 10003<br>
 &gt; Trains: L,N,Q,R,W,4,5,6 to Union Square/ 14th<br> &gt; Street, L to 1st Avenue<br> &gt;<br> &gt; more gigs:<br> &gt; April 25th at Banjo jim&#39;s, nyc 8pm (opening for<br> &gt; Lenny Kaye)<br> &gt; April 26th at Ace of Clubs, nyc 11pm (chris crosby&#39;s<br>

 &gt; birthday party)<br> &gt;<br> &gt; we are part of the following sites:<br> &gt; jam base<br> &gt; my space<br> &gt;<br> &gt;<br> &gt; --<br> &gt; Teddybut&#39;s song &quot;My Country&quot; is featured on Neil<br> &gt; Young&#39;s &quot;LIVING<br>

 &gt; WITH WAR TODAY&quot; site<br> &gt; __<br> &gt; &quot;The music business is a cruel and shallow money<br> &gt; trench, a long<br> &gt; plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free,<br> &gt; and good men die<br> &gt; like dogs. There&#39;s also a negative side.&quot;<br>

 &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;--Hunter S. Thompson<br> &gt;<br> &gt;<br> &gt;<br> &gt;<br> &gt;<br> <br> <br> <br><a href="http://www.myspace.com/luisangulocom" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">www.myspace.com/luisangulocom</a><br>
 <br><br> <br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;____________________________________________________________________________________<br>
 Be a better friend, newshound, and<br> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.&nbsp;&nbsp;Try it now.&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ</a><br>

 <br> </blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>The Playing Orchestra: <a href="http://www.telefonica.net/web2/tpo" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.telefonica.net/web2/tpo</a><br>
Chain Tape Collective: <a href="http://www.ct-collective.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.ct-collective.com</a><br>
TPO at myspace: <a href="http://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.myspace.com/theplayingorchestra</a><br>TPO at Jamendo: <a href="http://www.jamendo.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.jamendo.com</a>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 24 12:43:03 2008
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From: "Goddard, Duncan" <goddard.duncan@mtvne.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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>>Brian Eno did live treatments on Phil Manzanera's guitar using tape. =20
Have a look at this - the solo starts after 4 minutes. Is there some use
of looping?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dt3D2JSBxjzI

no. the two revox a77s were always a part of eno's stage rig during his
tenure with roxy, but they were used for tape-echo & are clearly not in
the frippertronics configuration here. he appears to be (& it sounds
like he is) manipulating a remote varispeed on one of them at the start
of manzanera's extemporisation; the early model of a77 was a tricky
machine to add varispeed to, & revox later changed the capstan servo to
a version with a 555 timer chip which made this easier. but I digress.
later on in the piece, baldy brian processes the guitar through the
VCS3.

odd performance though- I thought I'd seen all the beat club recordings,
but this one is new to me. brian ferry would normally have played the
keyboard part, here left to andy mackay by the looks of things, so that
BF can (unusually) strum a strat.

d.



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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 24 13:00:35 2008
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Thanks, Duncan.  The Editions of You take from this session is good as  
well, with BE nonchalantly flinging his tambourine stage right. No  
looping, though.

On Apr 24, 2008, at 2:42 PM, Goddard, Duncan wrote:

>>> Brian Eno did live treatments on Phil Manzanera's guitar using tape.
> Have a look at this - the solo starts after 4 minutes. Is there some  
> use
> of looping?
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3D2JSBxjzI
>
> no. the two revox a77s were always a part of eno's stage rig during  
> his
> tenure with roxy, but they were used for tape-echo & are clearly not  
> in
> the frippertronics configuration here. he appears to be (& it sounds
> like he is) manipulating a remote varispeed on one of them at the  
> start
> of manzanera's extemporisation; the early model of a77 was a tricky
> machine to add varispeed to, & revox later changed the capstan servo  
> to
> a version with a 555 timer chip which made this easier. but I digress.
> later on in the piece, baldy brian processes the guitar through the
> VCS3.
>
> odd performance though- I thought I'd seen all the beat club  
> recordings,
> but this one is new to me. brian ferry would normally have played the
> keyboard part, here left to andy mackay by the looks of things, so  
> that
> BF can (unusually) strum a strat.
>
> d.
>
>
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
>
> This e-mail (and any attached files) is confidential and protected by
> copyright (and other intellectual property rights). If you are not the
> intended recipient please e-mail the sender and then delete the  
> email and
> any attached files immediately. Any further use or dissemination is
> prohibited.
>
> While MTV Networks Europe has taken steps to ensure that this email  
> and
> any attachments are virus free, it is your responsibility to ensure  
> that
> this message and any attachments are virus free and do not affect your
> systems / data.
>
> Communicating by email is not 100% secure and carries risks such as  
> delay,
> data corruption, non-delivery, wrongful interception and unauthorised
> amendment. If you communicate with us by e-mail, you acknowledge and
> assume these risks, and you agree to take appropriate measures to  
> minimise
> these risks when e-mailing us.
>
> MTV Networks International, MTV Networks UK & Ireland, Greenhouse,
> Nickelodeon Viacom Consumer Products, VBSi, Viacom Brand Solutions
> International and Comedy Central are all trading names of MTV Networks
> Europe.  MTV Networks Europe is a partnership between MTV Networks  
> Europe
> Inc. and Viacom Networks Europe Inc.  Address for service in Great  
> Britain
> is UK House, 180 Oxford Street, London W1D 1DS, UK.
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 24 13:16:10 2008
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From: Teddy Kumpel <teddybut@mac.com>
Subject: Re: FAVORITE LIVE LOOPERS:   a new list
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 09:16:06 -0400
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Steve Khan told me that when he first met Joe Zawinaul he asked him  
what he had been listening to lately. Joe said, "myself".

Steve immediately thought he was the most arrogant dude in the universe.

Later on, after playing with Zawinul for a while, Steve realized that  
Joe didn't have time to listen to other people's music.
He was too busy creating his own. Steve had a revelation that Joe's  
answer was not arrogant, but honest and even more... necessary for an  
artist of his caliber.

that being said... I guess no one will be voting for me as the least  
arrogant looper... and, I'm no Joe Zawinul... although I am working  
on it.
And.... unlike Igor Stravinski, I am cursed with a good memory... so  
i dare not listen to any other loopers as I will certainly start to  
imitate them.

i don't think I could run for president... too shady of a past, but  
thanks Luis.

but, enough about me, what do you all think about me?

hahaha

Teddy


On Apr 24, 2008, at 6:19 AM, L.A. Angulo wrote:

> Rock on Teddy!!
> Ill vote for you if you run for president!
> Luis
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Teddy Kumpel <teddybut@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> All ego aside... I am my own favorite looper.
>> I guess Imogen is a close second.
>>
>> Teddy Kumpel and Mister Shifty



From account-service@royalbank.com  Thu Apr 24 14:17:32 2008
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 24 14:33:38 2008
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Subject: RE: roxy music
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>>Brian Eno did live treatments on Phil Manzanera's guitar using tape. =20
Have a look at this - the solo starts after 4 minutes. Is there some use
of looping?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dt3D2JSBxjzI

no. the two revox a77s were always a part of eno's stage rig during his
tenure with roxy, but they were used for tape-echo & are clearly not in
the frippertronics configuration here. he appears to be (& it sounds
like he is) manipulating a remote varispeed on one of them at the start
of manzanera's extemporisation; the early model of a77 was a tricky
machine to add varispeed to, & revox later changed the capstan servo to
a version with a 555 timer chip which made this easier. but I digress.
later on in the piece, baldy brian processes the guitar through the
VCS3.

odd performance though- I thought I'd seen all the beat club recordings,
but this one is new to me. brian ferry would normally have played the
keyboard part, here left to andy mackay by the looks of things, so that
BF can (unusually) strum a strat.

my mate, an expert on roxy music, postulates that eno is varispeeding a
pre-recorded solo as manzanera plays the live one, hence the
more-ADT-than-echo effect we can hear.

d.



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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 24 14:37:05 2008
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Subject: Re: guitarists for BOWIE, NIN and MADONNA
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 07:36:58 -0700
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Rick,

One of Bowie's recent guitarist (possibly current) is Gerry Leonard 
(AKA Spooky Ghost): http://www.spookyghost.com/

Saw him at a club gig in L.A. a couple of years back.

Did a whole solo gig with looping and tones of stomp boxes.

Not bad . . . but certainly nothing edgy or break-through (IMOHO).

Cheers amigo,

Ted


On Apr 23, 2008, at 8:44 PM, Rick Walker wrote:

>
> Can anyone confirm whether the guitarists for DAVID BOWIE,  NINE INCH 
> NAILS and MADONNA are using live looping technology onstage?
>
> I have heard that they do, but don't know for sure.
>
>
> live loopers in other really big pop bands, per chance?
> I know RADIOHEAD and BJORK's musicians have used the technology in 
> concert.
>
> thanks,   Rick
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 24 16:32:55 2008
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Subject: RE: famous live loopers
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I saw Paul Dresher using Two Tape machines in the early 80's, did anyone
mention him? I actually first tried looping  using this method while in High
School, when a friend named Eddie Clemenco set of two tape machines in a
mutual friends living room and we each took turns looping. This was probably
1974 0r 75, and I believe my friend Eddie (who was way a head of the curve
as a musician compared to the rest of us stone rockers), was familiar with
the likes of Terry Riley and Harry Partch, and studied with Lou Harrison
who's gamelan inspired compositions have a lot in common with looping from
my perspective. I assume he got the two tape deck idea from either Riley or
perhaps Brian Eno.
 I personally don't feel famous, so my inclusion on the list seems a bit
odd, but I'll take it as a compliment, and do my best to live up to it, and
perhaps start dating a super model,  and doing a couple of stints in rehab,
and punching out members of the paparazzi. This celebrity thing is going to
be fun!
 On another note, Saturday night I played at the second annual
Lapstravaganza show at the Kuumbwa jazz center here in Santa Cruz.  In what
was otherwise a fairly traditional night with various steel players being
backed up my a house band and running through country classics, I was the
lone looper, and the only one doing primarily improvise music, with the
exception being the one cover tune I did (In a Silent way). I was a bit
nervous that my more modernistic approach would not be well received my the
crowd, but I was pleasantly surprised at the response I got, and even more
so from the interest that some of the other lap steel players showed in what
I was doing with the LP-1. Even the headliner, Bobby Black who is 72
(started his professional career at 15 long before I was born) and an
absolute steel guitar master, was intrigued by my wall of lap steel sound.
This was very heartening to me as often times I've found that
traditionalists and music purists turn up their noses at new approaches and
technology. It was very gratifying for me as I had never done an all lap
steel set before and I knew I was in pretty heavy company hanging with
people who have been playing this way much longer than I have, and are much
more knowledgeable and skilled than I. All and all a great night of lap
steel playing. Hopefully there will be some posts on Youtube soon from the
concert.
 Cheers
 Bill  

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 24 18:49:03 2008
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From: scott hansen <evanpeewee@yahoo.com>
Subject: BOWIE guitarists (looping)
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i can't really answer for the NIN or Madonna question as to whether there's looping in there (as F Zappa would say: i don't consume their music)

I bought the Bowie DVD from a few yrs ago, i think after the Heathen disc came out, and the beginning of one of the songs (one that I believe DT played on), there is a bit of looping done by the 2nd guitarist in the band (he's a british guy, sadly i don't know his name, i remember he was profiled in Guitar Player when he was in Bowie's band), the other guitarist is Earl Slick in the band.
so there's a bit of looping in that live show presentation, couldn't really see what he was using (i'm guessing a DL4), and i doubt anyone in the audience would have known it was a looping guitar.
overall the concert looked (and sounded) boring to me. everyone looked like they were on autopilot, but i'm biased-i prefer Reeves Gabrels playing w/ Bowie (the bootleg VHS of tin machine  in japan i have is incredible!).
the final note-their version of "heros" was the same as the rest of the concert- boring (and the guitar sound is nothing like Fripp's)
On flip side a few yrs ago i bought the live King Crimson DVD (the more recent, not the 80's version of band), and for the encore they play 'heros', and man, adrian belew's singing is in fine form (he sounds eerily like bowie on this one) and Fripp's fuzzed melody lines are just great, and they all look like they are having fun, even Fripp is smiling and looking like he's having a great time. So, who'd a thought: king crimson outdoing bowie on 'heros" -at least in my opinion.
s---
ps-the beginning of the king crimson dvd starts w/ robert fripp doing a soundscape w/ his Eventide units, and i will say the sound was interesting, i have no idea how he was doing it. it was mysterious looking.

       
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i can't really answer for the NIN or Madonna question as to whether there's looping in there (as F Zappa would say: i don't consume their music)<br><br>I bought the Bowie DVD from a few yrs ago, i think after the Heathen disc came out, and the beginning of one of the songs (one that I believe DT played on), there is a bit of looping done by the 2nd guitarist in the band (he's a british guy, sadly i don't know his name, i remember he was profiled in Guitar Player when he was in Bowie's band), the other guitarist is Earl Slick in the band.<br>so there's a bit of looping in that live show presentation, couldn't really see what he was using (i'm guessing a DL4), and i doubt anyone in the audience would have known it was a looping guitar.<br>overall the concert looked (and sounded) boring to me. everyone looked like they were on autopilot, but i'm biased-i prefer Reeves Gabrels playing w/ Bowie (the bootleg VHS of tin machine&nbsp; in japan i have is incredible!).<br>the final
 note-their version of "heros" was the same as the rest of the concert- boring (and the guitar sound is nothing like Fripp's)<br>On flip side a few yrs ago i bought the live King Crimson DVD (the more recent, not the 80's version of band), and for the encore they play 'heros', and man, adrian belew's singing is in fine form (he sounds eerily like bowie on this one) and Fripp's fuzzed melody lines are just great, and they all look like they are having fun, even Fripp is smiling and looking like he's having a great time. So, who'd a thought: king crimson outdoing bowie on 'heros" -at least in my opinion.<br>s---<br>ps-the beginning of the king crimson dvd starts w/ robert fripp doing a soundscape w/ his Eventide units, and i will say the sound was interesting, i have no idea how he was doing it. it was mysterious looking.<br><p>&#32;



      <hr size=1>Be a better friend, newshound, and 
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Fripp smiled a lot when he played in Fall River,Massachusetts, this
past fall ... he was actually quite congenial. (And no, he didn't do
any "start-the-loop and walk away" ... what he did instead was have a
loop playing before things got started, walked out and finished it to
start the concert.)

Scott, if you're interested, I have an inventory of Fripp's rig when
he did this tour. Message me directly and I'll send it along (we sat 6
feet from him at the edge of the stage and had a chat with his
technician immediately after the show about the rig). It was a
multi-Eventide setup.

Dennis

On 4/24/08, scott hansen <evanpeewee@yahoo.com> wrote:
> i can't really answer for the NIN or Madonna question as to whether there's
> looping in there (as F Zappa would say: i don't consume their music)
>
> I bought the Bowie DVD from a few yrs ago, i think after the Heathen disc
> came out, and the beginning of one of the songs (one that I believe DT
> played on), there is a bit of looping done by the 2nd guitarist in the band
> (he's a british guy, sadly i don't know his name, i remember he was profiled
> in Guitar Player when he was in Bowie's band), the other guitarist is Earl
> Slick in the band.
> so there's a bit of looping in that live show presentation, couldn't really
> see what he was using (i'm guessing a DL4), and i doubt anyone in the
> audience would have known it was a looping guitar.
> overall the concert looked (and sounded) boring to me. everyone looked like
> they were on autopilot, but i'm biased-i prefer Reeves Gabrels playing w/
> Bowie (the bootleg VHS of tin machine  in japan i have is incredible!).
> the final note-their version of "heros" was the same as the rest of the
> concert- boring (and the guitar sound is nothing like Fripp's)
> On flip side a few yrs ago i bought the live King Crimson DVD (the more
> recent, not the 80's version of band), and for the encore they play 'heros',
> and man, adrian belew's singing is in fine form (he sounds eerily like bowie
> on this one) and Fripp's fuzzed melody lines are just great, and they all
> look like they are having fun, even Fripp is smiling and looking like he's
> having a great time. So, who'd a thought: king crimson outdoing bowie on
> 'heros" -at least in my opinion.
> s---
> ps-the beginning of the king crimson dvd starts w/ robert fripp doing a
> soundscape w/ his Eventide units, and i will say the sound was interesting,
> i have no idea how he was doing it. it was mysterious looking.
>
>
>  ________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it
> now.

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Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 12:10:49 -0700
From: "Michael Billow" <mbillow@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: BOWIE guitarists (looping)
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Well Don't forget, before King Crimson and Talking Heads etc, Adrian Belew
toured with Bowie. I remember reading an interview in which David marveled
at how Adrian could do live what Fripp and Eno had done only in the studio.

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 11:48 AM, scott hansen <evanpeewee@yahoo.com> wrote:

> i can't really answer for the NIN or Madonna question as to whether there's
> looping in there (as F Zappa would say: i don't consume their music)
>
> I bought the Bowie DVD from a few yrs ago, i think after the Heathen disc
> came out, and the beginning of one of the songs (one that I believe DT
> played on), there is a bit of looping done by the 2nd guitarist in the band
> (he's a british guy, sadly i don't know his name, i remember he was profiled
> in Guitar Player when he was in Bowie's band), the other guitarist is Earl
> Slick in the band.
> so there's a bit of looping in that live show presentation, couldn't really
> see what he was using (i'm guessing a DL4), and i doubt anyone in the
> audience would have known it was a looping guitar.
> overall the concert looked (and sounded) boring to me. everyone looked like
> they were on autopilot, but i'm biased-i prefer Reeves Gabrels playing w/
> Bowie (the bootleg VHS of tin machine  in japan i have is incredible!).
> the final note-their version of "heros" was the same as the rest of the
> concert- boring (and the guitar sound is nothing like Fripp's)
> On flip side a few yrs ago i bought the live King Crimson DVD (the more
> recent, not the 80's version of band), and for the encore they play 'heros',
> and man, adrian belew's singing is in fine form (he sounds eerily like bowie
> on this one) and Fripp's fuzzed melody lines are just great, and they all
> look like they are having fun, even Fripp is smiling and looking like he's
> having a great time. So, who'd a thought: king crimson outdoing bowie on
> 'heros" -at least in my opinion.
> s---
> ps-the beginning of the king crimson dvd starts w/ robert fripp doing a
> soundscape w/ his Eventide units, and i will say the sound was interesting,
> i have no idea how he was doing it. it was mysterious looking.
>
> ------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it
> now.<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ>
>

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Well Don&#39;t forget, before King Crimson and Talking Heads etc, Adrian Belew toured with Bowie. I remember reading an interview in which David marveled at how Adrian could do live what Fripp and Eno had done only in the studio.<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 11:48 AM, scott hansen &lt;<a href="mailto:evanpeewee@yahoo.com">evanpeewee@yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
i can&#39;t really answer for the NIN or Madonna question as to whether there&#39;s looping in there (as F Zappa would say: i don&#39;t consume their music)<br><br>I bought the Bowie DVD from a few yrs ago, i think after the Heathen disc came out, and the beginning of one of the songs (one that I believe DT played on), there is a bit of looping done by the 2nd guitarist in the band (he&#39;s a british guy, sadly i don&#39;t know his name, i remember he was profiled in Guitar Player when he was in Bowie&#39;s band), the other guitarist is Earl Slick in the band.<br>
so there&#39;s a bit of looping in that live show presentation, couldn&#39;t really see what he was using (i&#39;m guessing a DL4), and i doubt anyone in the audience would have known it was a looping guitar.<br>overall the concert looked (and sounded) boring to me. everyone looked like they were on autopilot, but i&#39;m biased-i prefer Reeves Gabrels playing w/ Bowie (the bootleg VHS of tin machine&nbsp; in japan i have is incredible!).<br>
the final
 note-their version of &quot;heros&quot; was the same as the rest of the concert- boring (and the guitar sound is nothing like Fripp&#39;s)<br>On flip side a few yrs ago i bought the live King Crimson DVD (the more recent, not the 80&#39;s version of band), and for the encore they play &#39;heros&#39;, and man, adrian belew&#39;s singing is in fine form (he sounds eerily like bowie on this one) and Fripp&#39;s fuzzed melody lines are just great, and they all look like they are having fun, even Fripp is smiling and looking like he&#39;s having a great time. So, who&#39;d a thought: king crimson outdoing bowie on &#39;heros&quot; -at least in my opinion.<br>
<font color="#888888">s---<br></font>ps-the beginning of the king crimson dvd starts w/ robert fripp doing a soundscape w/ his Eventide units, and i will say the sound was interesting, i have no idea how he was doing it. it was mysterious looking.<br>
<div class="WgoR0d"><p> 



      </p><hr size="1">Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ" target="_blank"> Try it now.</a></div></blockquote></div><br>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 24 21:23:05 2008
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Subject: Re: COLLATED FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS: amended again
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My bad, Mark,

I didn't know that bit of history and would never take anything away from 
anyone who innovates, conciously.

I love Brian Eno,  He's been an enormous influence on my own life and work.

I constantly repeat the Red Crayon/White Paper Creativity anecdote that is 
told about him.

So , thanks for correcting me............I'll add him to the famous list , 
poste haste.

yours,  respectfully,   Rick

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: mark francombe
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
  Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:06 PM
  Subject: Re: COLLATED FAMOUS LIVE LOOPING ARTISTS: amended again





    Someone also mentioned Brian Eno, but really, I have never been aware 
that he was using live looping
    with the excpetion of his work with Robert Fripp early on.   Am I 
mistaken because he'd definitely qualify
    as a famous looper if he is , indeed using live looping methods in his 
composition.


  DEEERRR Rick!!! Oh come on... Its Rober Fripp who nicked the idea off 
Brian Eno remember???  Brian Eno  printed the diagram of the double Revox 
system in his Discreet nusic Album  THAT USED THIS SYSTEM  therfore yes 
Brian Eno HAS used Live looping... not sure if it qualfys him as a live 
looper tho, Im sure most producers have used really long delays at some 
time, but Discreet Music as an Album is most definately Live Looping.  And 
thankfully no sign of Fripp anywhere!!!

  Twas my first introduction to looping, and I have one photo of me using 
that system in about 1982 with long hair and a tie dyed Tshirt... Yikes!



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I'm still out there, although I'm lurking pretty far back in the shadows. -m

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I&#39;m still out there, although I&#39;m lurking pretty far back in the shadows. -m<br>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 24 23:00:25 2008
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It's here!

Kris

----- Original Message ----- 


> Hello from Cycling '74 headquarters. We have some big news.
> 
> Max 5 is now available for download. We're very excited about this 
> major upgrade and we hope you will be too. This upgrade represents a 
> new era of Max programming, with a completely redesigned 
> multi-processing kernel and a streamlined development environment 
> built on a platform-independent foundation.
> 
> http://www.cycling74.com/products/max5
> 
> Important Max 5 Notes:
> - It is fully functional for 30 days and will run on the same 
> computer as older versions of Max without disrupting them.
> - The upgrade costs $199, and there are education discounts.
> http://www.cycling74.com/purchase/discounts
> - People who purchased Max after October 1, 2007 are eligible for a 
> free upgrade, and should have received an email from us with details. 
> If not, email max5up@cycling74.com with your full name and Max 4.6 
> serial number(s).
> - Visit our Product and FAQ pages for more information.
> http://www.cycling74.com/twiki/bin/view/FAQs
> http://www.cycling74.com/products/max5
> 
> Other Helpful Notes:
> - If you previously created an account on our webstore, be sure to 
> use it for quickest service.
> - Visit our Distributor page for the current list of resellers in 
> your area. We are pleased to announce DACS Ltd. in the UK is now 
> representing our products.
> http://www.cycling74.com/purchase/distributors
> 
> 
> Finally, we are offering a new Max/MSP/Jitter Workshop for Beginners 
> in London. For complete details, please visit our Workshop page.
> http://www.cycling74.com/twiki/bin/view/Workshops
> 
> 
> Thanks for your time.
> 
> Cycling '74
> _______________________________________________
> cycling74-announcements mailing list
> cycling74-announcements@cycling74.com
> http://www.cycling74.com/mailman/listinfo/cycling74-announcements

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Apr 24 23:30:24 2008
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Subject: live looping lap steel
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Bill Walker wrote:
"Saturday night I played at the second annual
Lapstravaganza show at the Kuumbwa jazz center here in Santa Cruz.  In what
was otherwise a fairly traditional night with various steel players being
backed up my a house band and running through country classics, I was the
lone looper, and the only one doing primarily improvise music....."


My brother is the last one in the world to toot his own horn in an 
egotistical way,
so I have to go on record and say that I was at that gig,  sitting in the 
back,
and it was a really amazing show that he put on.  The crowd response was 
really great.

I, too, wondered whether in this very traditional sold out house (lots of 
cowboy hats
and a plethora of Fender Telecasters on stage) Bill's innovative and tech 
heavy
approach would work or not.

As well as just digging the hell out of what Bill was playing,  i looked 
around in the dark
at the people in the audience and they were just rapt with attention.

It was very , very cool and Bill had a great and, I think, influential gig.
It's one thing to play to other looping festivals but quite another to play
to the unconverted.

Nice work.........innovative and strong.
And I don't even care if anyone considers me nepotistic for saying it! 
lol 

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Subject: RE: [cycling74-announcements] Product and Workshop News
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Hey Kris
the product looks good!   How long do you expect it will take for you to
migrate to it?    BTW,  Has anyone on the list used Jitter?  

Qua

-----Original Message-----
From: Boise Experimental Music Festival [mailto:khartung@cableone.net] 
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 4:00 PM
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Subject: Fw: [cycling74-announcements] Product and Workshop News

It's here!

Kris

----- Original Message ----- 


> Hello from Cycling '74 headquarters. We have some big news.
> 
> Max 5 is now available for download. We're very excited about this 

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Message-ID: <4759e5740804241709h298766bak37a32da37ca6eb3b@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 20:09:42 -0400
From: "todd reynolds" <toddreyn@gmail.com>
Reply-To: todd@toddreynolds.com
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: [cycling74-announcements] Product and Workshop News
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i use jitter to drive video with my audio, but my patches are all written by
my partner in video crime who is one of the creators of Jitter, and has been
working very hard on this latest release.  (I believe he's also responsible
for the latest manual integration, but I'm not sure about that.)
You can see a rather low quality live video on my myspace page,
http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic  and I think there are a few live
pieces on youtube besides, and some photos here of my solo show with
Jitter-responsible video...

http://flickr.com/photos/muddybluetown/524299506/in/set-72057594072727567/


http://flickr.com/photos/muddybluetown/524299462/in/set-72057594072727567/


http://flickr.com/photos/muddybluetown/524302916/in/set-72057594072727567/


All video images are generated as my audio hits a jitter patch, the
renderings are the resulting video art of Luke DuBois.


I understand some jitter, and lord knows have sat in enough classes when we
team teach, so I can pay tribute to its wonder, but probably couldn't build
even a semi-complicated patch.


Bests, Todd



On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 7:58 PM, Qua Veda <qua@oregon.com> wrote:

> Hey Kris
> the product looks good!   How long do you expect it will take for you to
> migrate to it?    BTW,  Has anyone on the list used Jitter?
>
> Qua
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Boise Experimental Music Festival [mailto:khartung@cableone.net]
> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 4:00 PM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: Fw: [cycling74-announcements] Product and Workshop News
>
> It's here!
>
> Kris
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> > Hello from Cycling '74 headquarters. We have some big news.
> >
> > Max 5 is now available for download. We're very excited about this
>
>


-- 
http://www.toddreynolds.com |:
http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic |:
------------------------------------------------------|:
917.576.6166
todd@toddreynolds.com
toddreyn@gmail.com

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i use jitter to drive video with my audio, but my patches are all written by my partner in video crime who is one of the creators of Jitter, and has been working very hard on this latest release. &nbsp;(I believe he&#39;s also responsible for the latest manual integration, but I&#39;m not sure about that.)<div>
<br></div><div>You can see a rather low quality live video on my myspace page, &nbsp;<a href="http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic">http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic</a> &nbsp;and I think there are a few live pieces on youtube besides, and some photos here of my solo show with Jitter-responsible video...&nbsp;</div>
<div><br></div><div><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><a href="http://flickr.com/photos/muddybluetown/524299506/in/set-72057594072727567/">http://flickr.com/photos/muddybluetown/524299506/in/set-72057594072727567/</a></p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><br></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><a href="http://flickr.com/photos/muddybluetown/524299462/in/set-72057594072727567/">http://flickr.com/photos/muddybluetown/524299462/in/set-72057594072727567/</a></p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><br></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><a href="http://flickr.com/photos/muddybluetown/524302916/in/set-72057594072727567/">http://flickr.com/photos/muddybluetown/524302916/in/set-72057594072727567/</a></p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><br></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica">All video images are generated as my audio hits a jitter patch, the renderings are the resulting video art of Luke DuBois.</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><br></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica">I understand some jitter, and lord knows have sat in enough classes when we team teach, so I can pay tribute to its wonder, but probably couldn&#39;t build even a semi-complicated patch. &nbsp;</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><br></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica">Bests, Todd</p><p></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica">
<br></p><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica"><br></p><p></p></div><div><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 7:58 PM, Qua Veda &lt;<a href="mailto:qua@oregon.com">qua@oregon.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Hey Kris<br>
the product looks good! &nbsp; How long do you expect it will take for you to<br>
migrate to it? &nbsp; &nbsp;BTW, &nbsp;Has anyone on the list used Jitter?<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
Qua<br>
</font><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Boise Experimental Music Festival [mailto:<a href="mailto:khartung@cableone.net">khartung@cableone.net</a>]<br>
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 4:00 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</a><br>
Subject: Fw: [cycling74-announcements] Product and Workshop News<br>
<br>
It&#39;s here!<br>
<br>
Kris<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; Hello from Cycling &#39;74 headquarters. We have some big news.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Max 5 is now available for download. We&#39;re very excited about this<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><a href="http://www.toddreynolds.com">http://www.toddreynolds.com</a> |:<br><a href="http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic">http://myspace.com/toddreynoldsmusic</a> |:<br>
------------------------------------------------------|:<br>917.576.6166 <br><a href="mailto:todd@toddreynolds.com">todd@toddreynolds.com</a><br><a href="mailto:toddreyn@gmail.com">toddreyn@gmail.com</a>
</div>

------=_Part_3984_8740713.1209082182224--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 25 00:22:06 2008
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Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:38:22 -0500
From: cpr@musetrap.com
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: I heard Zoe Keating on the radio today.. :)
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So, I'm driving into work, and listening to one of the local college radio
stations (KFJC - Foothill College in Los Altos, ca), and there is this great
cello piece playing.. when the track is done, the announcer says it was Zoe
Keating... weeee! it's not often we randomly hear one of our own on the radio..
:) kudos to keating.. :)

peace
-cpr 

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 25 00:23:09 2008
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Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 17:16:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: bill bigrig <billbigrig@yahoo.com>
Subject: re: favorite loopers a new list
To: loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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Howdy,

 Back in 74 at the grand opening of a Fred Meyer store
in N.W. Wash state, Bachman-Turner made an
appearance(this was when their debut album "Overdrive"
first came out, after that everyone called them B.T.
Overdrive). At the loading dock, my 18 year old guitar
playing buddy said,"they had an ALLMAN BROTHER'S tape
in the 8 track. If it was me, I'd be listeneing to MY
tape". That's arrogance. He hadn't made one. He's
still playing cover tunes in beer bars. Later, I
became a sound man, bought synths, and started
composing. Yes, I listen to myself. 95% of my
recordings are jams with  1 or 3 others. They give me
inspiration for composing. But if I had just spent
months in the studio working on an album, I'd probably
be ready to listen to someone else. J. Zawinal had a
good point. I listen to myself for the same reason. 
But there are others who would give the same answer
out of sheer vanity.
rig


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 25 00:24:37 2008
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: RP Collier <skeptikalist@gmail.com>
Subject: amen break golden ratio
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 17:24:29 -0700
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Wasn't  it on this list that someone posted the Youtube link to the  
history of the Amen Break?

Can't remember, but I know I have recently seen some *golden ratio*  
posts.

:-)

So, here is a paper about the golden ratio proportions of the Amen  
Break:

http://www.constructingtheuniverse.com/Amen%20Break%20and%20GR.html



via Neatorama




regards

BobC





http://cdbaby.com/cd/rpcollier3
http://tinyurl.com/yt8f8j
http://www.youtube.com/tynego

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Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 17:27:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: bill bigrig <billbigrig@yahoo.com>
Subject: Eno
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Howdy,

 Did anyone ever read the interview with Eno when he
explained a set-up at a shopping mall of many tape
machines playing loops of different lenghts etc. and
the facilitiy manager complaining to him that he had
to run around the whole time and reset the tape
machines because they kept going out of sync/whack? I
thought that was a particular gem in all the Eno
interviews I've read.
Rig


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Subject: Re: Eno
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 17:55:26 -0700
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Yeah I guess Fripp always had trouble with those things going out of sync. 
I heard about a Touch Guitarist who tried to do the Frippertronic thing at a 
college and he could never get the revoxes to sync up the whole time.

t
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "bill bigrig" <billbigrig@yahoo.com>
To: <loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 5:27 PM
Subject: Eno


> Howdy,
>
> Did anyone ever read the interview with Eno when he
> explained a set-up at a shopping mall of many tape
> machines playing loops of different lenghts etc. and
> the facilitiy manager complaining to him that he had
> to run around the whole time and reset the tape
> machines because they kept going out of sync/whack? I
> thought that was a particular gem in all the Eno
> interviews I've read.
> Rig
>
>
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now. 
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
> 

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Subject: RE: The list that will not die
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:14:29 -0700
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Did anybody mention Patty Larkin? An excellent singer songwriter who's
innovative guitar playing is highly under-rated, she use a boss rc20xl and a
lexicon jam man. There is an article about her in the latest guitar player
magazine. Sorry if I'm being redundant.
 Bill 

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Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:25:25 -0700
From: "Michael Billow" <mbillow@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: BOWIE guitarists (looping)
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Oh I dont know if he was actually 'looping' per say, I was responding to the
"Heroes by King Crimson" post, by just pointing out that he had a
relationship to Bowie before he worked with Crimson and Talking Heads. And
that he was particularly gifted at creating "Frippish" sounds live,
especially when playing "Heroes": thats why Bowie liked him.
PS: He also toured with Zappa around that time.
PSS: How could I find the Crimson DVD with Heroes on it?

>Rick Walker to me
show details 5:33 PM (51 minutes ago)
Reply

So Belew was looping live in concert?

I haven't seen him since he toured with Crimson and the Heads and he wasn't
in those days.

Do you know what he uses out of curiosity?

thanks for all that info.

Rick

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Oh I dont know if he was actually &#39;looping&#39; per say, I was responding
to the &quot;Heroes by King Crimson&quot; post, by just pointing out that he had
a relationship to Bowie before he worked with Crimson and Talking
Heads. And that he was particularly gifted at creating &quot;Frippish&quot;
sounds live, especially when playing &quot;Heroes&quot;: thats why Bowie liked
him. <br>
PS: He also toured with Zappa around that time.<br>PSS: How could I find the Crimson DVD with Heroes on it?<br><br>&gt;<table class="BwDhwd"><tbody><tr><td class="zyVlgb XZlFIc"><table class="O5Harb"><tbody><tr><td><div class="xUReW">
<span class="EP8xU" style="color: rgb(200, 137, 0);">Rick Walker</span> <span class="tQWRdd">to <span class="Zv5tZd">me</span> </span></div></td></tr></tbody></table></td><td class="i8p5Ld"><div class="XZlFIc"><span class="D05ws">show details</span> <span id="1eu9" class="rziBod" title="Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 5:33 PM" alt="Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 5:33 PM">5:33 PM (51 minutes ago)</span> <span class="KaaYad"></span></div>
</td><td class="i8p5Ld"><div class="JbJ6Ye"><table class="gQ8wIf" id="1eub"><tbody><tr><td class="cTzXV LtBCcf t9K9Me"><img class="eChx3e DC6qBf" src="images/cleardot.gif"></td><td class="cTzXV t9K9Me"><div class="SvrlRe">
Reply</div></td><td class="t9K9Me"><br></td><td class="wtnCQd tP6gIf t9K9Me"><img class="eChx3e S1nudd" src="images/cleardot.gif"></td></tr></tbody></table></div></td></tr></tbody></table>






<div><font face="Arial" size="2">So Belew was looping live in concert?</font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">I haven&#39;t seen him since he toured with Crimson and 
the Heads and he wasn&#39;t in those days.</font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Do you know what he uses out of 
curiosity?</font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">thanks for all that info.</font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div><font color="#888888">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Rick</font></div></font>

------=_Part_3634_4677482.1209086725164--

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Subject: Re: BOWIE guitarists (looping)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 19:09:00 -0700
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Zappa actually had some loopage going on with delays on the 82 tour.  He =
had 3 delays and he'd put in a weird phrase into each and let all of =
them repeat for a while.

t
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Michael Billow=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 6:25 PM
  Subject: Re: BOWIE guitarists (looping)


  Oh I dont know if he was actually 'looping' per say, I was responding =
to the "Heroes by King Crimson" post, by just pointing out that he had a =
relationship to Bowie before he worked with Crimson and Talking Heads. =
And that he was particularly gifted at creating "Frippish" sounds live, =
especially when playing "Heroes": thats why Bowie liked him.=20
  PS: He also toured with Zappa around that time.
  PSS: How could I find the Crimson DVD with Heroes on it?

  >Rick Walker to me =20
       show details 5:33 PM (51 minutes ago)   Reply=20
             =20
      =20

  So Belew was looping live in concert?

  I haven't seen him since he toured with Crimson and the Heads and he =
wasn't in those days.

  Do you know what he uses out of curiosity?

  thanks for all that info.

  Rick
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#fffbf0>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Zappa actually had some loopage going =
on with=20
delays on the 82 tour.&nbsp; He had 3 delays and he'd put in a weird =
phrase into=20
each and let all of them repeat for a while.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>t</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dmbillow@gmail.com href=3D"mailto:mbillow@gmail.com">Michael =
Billow</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 24, 2008 =
6:25=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: BOWIE guitarists=20
  (looping)</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>Oh I dont know if he was actually 'looping' per say, I =
was=20
  responding to the "Heroes by King Crimson" post, by just pointing out =
that he=20
  had a relationship to Bowie before he worked with Crimson and Talking =
Heads.=20
  And that he was particularly gifted at creating "Frippish" sounds =
live,=20
  especially when playing "Heroes": thats why Bowie liked him. <BR>PS: =
He also=20
  toured with Zappa around that time.<BR>PSS: How could I find the =
Crimson DVD=20
  with Heroes on it?<BR><BR>&gt;
  <TABLE class=3DBwDhwd>
    <TBODY>
    <TR>
      <TD class=3D"zyVlgb XZlFIc">
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          <TR>
            <TD>
              <DIV class=3DxUReW><SPAN class=3DEP8xU=20
              style=3D"COLOR: rgb(200,137,0)">Rick Walker</SPAN> <SPAN=20
              class=3DtQWRdd>to <SPAN class=3DZv5tZd>me</SPAN>=20
          </SPAN></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD>
      <TD class=3Di8p5Ld>
        <DIV class=3DXZlFIc><SPAN class=3DD05ws>show details</SPAN> =
<SPAN=20
        class=3DrziBod id=3D1eu9 title=3D"Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 5:33 PM"=20
        alt=3D"Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 5:33 PM">5:33 PM (51 minutes =
ago)</SPAN> <SPAN=20
        class=3DKaaYad></SPAN></DIV></TD>
      <TD class=3Di8p5Ld>
        <DIV class=3DJbJ6Ye>
        <TABLE class=3DgQ8wIf id=3D1eub>
          <TBODY>
          <TR>
            <TD class=3D"cTzXV LtBCcf t9K9Me"><IMG class=3D"eChx3e =
DC6qBf"=20
              src=3D"images/cleardot.gif"></TD>
            <TD class=3D"cTzXV t9K9Me">
              <DIV class=3DSvrlRe>Reply</DIV></TD>
            <TD class=3Dt9K9Me><BR></TD>
            <TD class=3D"wtnCQd tP6gIf t9K9Me"><IMG class=3D"eChx3e =
S1nudd"=20
              =
src=3D"images/cleardot.gif"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></TD></TR></T=
BODY></TABLE>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So Belew was looping live in=20
concert?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I haven't seen him since he toured =
with Crimson=20
  and the Heads and he wasn't in those days.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Do you know what he uses out of=20
  curiosity?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>thanks for all that =
info.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT color=3D#888888>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Rick</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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Subject: Re: BOWIE guitarists (looping)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 22:35:45 -0500
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Also I know that Belew recorded with Laurie Anderson. She commented in =
an in interview wow instant zoo! He used an EH 16 second delay in those =
days. I don't know what he uses these days. He is also featured =
prominently on NINs Ghosts I-IV, unknown if he loops on it.=20

Jeff


http://www.thisphase.org/lips.html

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Michael Billow=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 8:25 PM
  Subject: Re: BOWIE guitarists (looping)


  Oh I dont know if he was actually 'looping' per say, I was responding =
to the "Heroes by King Crimson" post, by just pointing out that he had a =
relationship to Bowie before he worked with Crimson and Talking Heads. =
And that he was particularly gifted at creating "Frippish" sounds live, =
especially when playing "Heroes": thats why Bowie liked him.=20
  PS: He also toured with Zappa around that time.
  PSS: How could I find the Crimson DVD with Heroes on it?

  >Rick Walker to me =20
       show details 5:33 PM (51 minutes ago)   Reply=20
             =20
      =20

  So Belew was looping live in concert?

  I haven't seen him since he toured with Crimson and the Heads and he =
wasn't in those days.

  Do you know what he uses out of curiosity?

  thanks for all that info.

  Rick


-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----


  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG.=20
  Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1395 - Release Date: =
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Also I know&nbsp;that Belew recorded =
with Laurie=20
Anderson. She commented in an in interview wow instant zoo! He used an =
EH 16=20
second delay in those days. I don't know what he uses these days. He is =
also=20
featured prominently on NINs Ghosts I-IV, unknown if he loops on it.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jeff</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.thisphase.org/lips.html">http://www.thisphase.org/lips=
.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dmbillow@gmail.com href=3D"mailto:mbillow@gmail.com">Michael =
Billow</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 24, 2008 =
8:25=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: BOWIE guitarists=20
  (looping)</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>Oh I dont know if he was actually 'looping' per say, I =
was=20
  responding to the "Heroes by King Crimson" post, by just pointing out =
that he=20
  had a relationship to Bowie before he worked with Crimson and Talking =
Heads.=20
  And that he was particularly gifted at creating "Frippish" sounds =
live,=20
  especially when playing "Heroes": thats why Bowie liked him. <BR>PS: =
He also=20
  toured with Zappa around that time.<BR>PSS: How could I find the =
Crimson DVD=20
  with Heroes on it?<BR><BR>&gt;
  <TABLE class=3DBwDhwd>
    <TBODY>
    <TR>
      <TD class=3D"zyVlgb XZlFIc">
        <TABLE class=3DO5Harb>
          <TBODY>
          <TR>
            <TD>
              <DIV class=3DxUReW><SPAN class=3DEP8xU=20
              style=3D"COLOR: rgb(200,137,0)">Rick Walker</SPAN> <SPAN=20
              class=3DtQWRdd>to <SPAN class=3DZv5tZd>me</SPAN>=20
          </SPAN></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD>
      <TD class=3Di8p5Ld>
        <DIV class=3DXZlFIc><SPAN class=3DD05ws>show details</SPAN> =
<SPAN=20
        class=3DrziBod id=3D1eu9 title=3D"Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 5:33 PM"=20
        alt=3D"Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 5:33 PM">5:33 PM (51 minutes =
ago)</SPAN> <SPAN=20
        class=3DKaaYad></SPAN></DIV></TD>
      <TD class=3Di8p5Ld>
        <DIV class=3DJbJ6Ye>
        <TABLE class=3DgQ8wIf id=3D1eub>
          <TBODY>
          <TR>
            <TD class=3D"cTzXV LtBCcf t9K9Me"><IMG class=3D"eChx3e =
DC6qBf"=20
              src=3D"images/cleardot.gif"></TD>
            <TD class=3D"cTzXV t9K9Me">
              <DIV class=3DSvrlRe>Reply</DIV></TD>
            <TD class=3Dt9K9Me><BR></TD>
            <TD class=3D"wtnCQd tP6gIf t9K9Me"><IMG class=3D"eChx3e =
S1nudd"=20
              =
src=3D"images/cleardot.gif"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></TD></TR></T=
BODY></TABLE>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So Belew was looping live in=20
concert?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I haven't seen him since he toured =
with Crimson=20
  and the Heads and he wasn't in those days.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Do you know what he uses out of=20
  curiosity?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>thanks for all that =
info.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT color=3D#888888>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rick</FONT></DIV></FONT>
  <P>
  <HR>

  <P></P>No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>Checked by AVG.=20
  <BR>Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1395 - Release Date: =
4/24/2008=20
  7:24 AM<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 25 03:47:38 2008
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From: Rev Fever <revfever@ubergadget.com>
Subject: Re: BOWIE guitarists (looping)  (Miles Davis, Bitches Brew)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 19:48:54 -0700
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Apparently, there were some tape loops used in the recording of Miles  
Davis' masterpiece "Bitches Brew", an album which STILL sounds fresh  
even TODAY.
(Or, so I have heard...)

-Rev.Fever

On Apr 24, 2008, at 7:09 PM, Toby G wrote:

> Zappa actually had some loopage going on with delays on the 82  
> tour.  He had 3 delays and he'd put in a weird phrase into each and  
> let all of them repeat for a while.
>
> t
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael Billow
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 6:25 PM
> Subject: Re: BOWIE guitarists (looping)
>
> Oh I dont know if he was actually 'looping' per say, I was  
> responding to the "Heroes by King Crimson" post, by just pointing  
> out that he had a relationship to Bowie before he worked with  
> Crimson and Talking Heads. And that he was particularly gifted at  
> creating "Frippish" sounds live, especially when playing "Heroes":  
> thats why Bowie liked him.
> PS: He also toured with Zappa around that time.
> PSS: How could I find the Crimson DVD with Heroes on it?
>
> >
> Rick Walker to me
> show details 5:33 PM (51 minutes ago)
> 	
> Reply
>
>
> So Belew was looping live in concert?
>
> I haven't seen him since he toured with Crimson and the Heads and  
> he wasn't in those days.
>
> Do you know what he uses out of curiosity?
>
> thanks for all that info.
>
> Rick


--Apple-Mail-2-1003784157
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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	charset=ISO-8859-1

<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
Apparently, there were some tape loops used in the recording of Miles =
Davis' masterpiece "Bitches Brew", an album which STILL sounds fresh =
even TODAY.<div>(Or, so I have =
heard...)<br><div><br></div><div>-Rev.Fever</div><div><br><div><div>On =
Apr 24, 2008, at 7:09 PM, Toby G wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div><font face=3D"Arial" =
size=3D"2">Zappa actually had some loopage going on with delays on the =
82 tour.=A0 He had 3 delays and he'd put in a weird phrase into each and =
let all of them repeat for a while.</font></div><div><font face=3D"Arial" =
size=3D"2"></font>=A0</div><div><font face=3D"Arial" =
size=3D"2">t</font></div><blockquote dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"padding-right: =
0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; margin-right: 0px; =
"><div style=3D"font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; ">----- =
Original Message -----</div><div style=3D"background-image: initial; =
background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; =
-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; =
background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); font: normal normal normal =
10pt/normal arial; background-position: initial initial; =
"><b>From:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><a =
title=3D"mbillow@gmail.com" href=3D"mailto:mbillow@gmail.com">Michael =
Billow</a></div><div style=3D"font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal =
arial; "><b>To:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><a =
title=3D"Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@looper=
s-delight.com</a></div><div style=3D"font: normal normal normal =
10pt/normal arial; "><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span>Thursday, April 24, 2008 6:25 =
PM</div><div style=3D"font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; =
"><b>Subject:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span>Re: =
BOWIE guitarists (looping)</div><div><br></div>Oh I dont know if he was =
actually 'looping' per say, I was responding to the "Heroes by King =
Crimson" post, by just pointing out that he had a relationship to Bowie =
before he worked with Crimson and Talking Heads. And that he was =
particularly gifted at creating "Frippish" sounds live, especially when =
playing "Heroes": thats why Bowie liked him.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><br>PS: He also toured with =
Zappa around that time.<br>PSS: How could I find the Crimson DVD with =
Heroes on it?<br><br>><table class=3D"BwDhwd"><tbody><tr><td =
class=3D"zyVlgb XZlFIc"><table class=3D"O5Harb"><tbody><tr><td><div =
class=3D"xUReW"><span class=3D"EP8xU" style=3D"color: rgb(200, 137, 0); =
">Rick Walker</span><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><span =
class=3D"tQWRdd">to<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><span =
class=3D"Zv5tZd">me</span></span></div></td></tr></tbody></table></td><td =
class=3D"i8p5Ld"><div class=3D"XZlFIc"><span class=3D"D05ws">show =
details</span><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><span =
class=3D"rziBod" id=3D"1eu9" title=3D"Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 5:33 PM" =
alt=3D"Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 5:33 PM">5:33 PM (51 minutes =
ago)</span><span class=3D"KaaYad"></span></div></td><td =
class=3D"i8p5Ld"><div class=3D"JbJ6Ye"><table class=3D"gQ8wIf" =
id=3D"1eub"><tbody><tr><td class=3D"cTzXV LtBCcf t9K9Me"><img =
class=3D"eChx3e DC6qBf" src=3D"images/cleardot.gif"></td><td =
class=3D"cTzXV t9K9Me"><div class=3D"SvrlRe">Reply</div></td><td =
class=3D"t9K9Me"><br></td><td class=3D"wtnCQd tP6gIf t9K9Me"><img =
class=3D"eChx3e S1nudd" =
src=3D"images/cleardot.gif"></td></tr></tbody></table></div></td></tr></tb=
ody></table><div><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">So Belew was looping =
live in concert?</font></div><div>=A0</div><div><font face=3D"Arial" =
size=3D"2">I haven't seen him since he toured with Crimson and the Heads =
and he wasn't in those days.</font></div><div>=A0</div><div><font =
face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2">Do you know what he uses out of =
curiosity?</font></div><div>=A0</div><div><font face=3D"Arial" =
size=3D"2">thanks for all that info.</font></div><div>=A0</div><font =
color=3D"#888888"><div><font face=3D"Arial" =
size=3D"2">Rick</font></div></font></blockquote><font =
color=3D"#888888"></font></span></blockquote></div><br></div></div></body>=
</html>=

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From ssec109@creval.it  Fri Apr 25 05:34:42 2008
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From: Creval BCI <ssec109@creval.it>
To: looparc@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Il trattamento dei dati personali !
Date: 24 Apr 2008 21:59:56 -0700
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<BASE href=3D"http://mailstore.rossoalice.alice.it/exchange/Alice00000000114=
6149/Posta%20eliminata/Attenzione!%20Comunicazione%20Urgente.EML/" />
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<p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Caro Cliente,<br><br>
<br>

Il trattamento dei dati personali avviene mediante elaborazioni manuali o st=
rumenti elettronici <br>o comunque automatizzati, informatici e telematici, =
con logiche strettamente correlate alle <br>finalit=E0 stesse e, comunque, i=
n modo da garantire la sicurezza e la riservatezza dei dati stessi.
<br>
<br>
Vi preghiamo di verificare le ultime specifiche di sicurezza, effettuando il=
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a> nel suo account.

<br>
<br>
Questo significa sicurezza !
<br>
<br>
Grazie ancora per aver scelto i servizi on-line di Creval BCI.<br>
<br>
<br>


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 25 06:44:24 2008
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From: "Michael Peters" <mp@mpeters.de>
To: "Loopers Delight" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <03d601c8a663$2a368b90$6401a8c0@dayglogreen>
Subject: RE: live looping lap steel
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 08:44:18 +0200
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> It's one thing to play to other looping festivals but quite another to
play to the unconverted.

I'd love to hear a recording of that. Any chance?

-Michael www.michaelpeters.de


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 25 06:53:46 2008
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Surely the vanity is to produce music that you yourself aren't going to listen to?

andy

bill bigrig wrote:
> Howdy,
> 
>  Back in 74 at the grand opening of a Fred Meyer store
> in N.W. Wash state, Bachman-Turner made an
> appearance(this was when their debut album "Overdrive"
> first came out, after that everyone called them B.T.
> Overdrive). At the loading dock, my 18 year old guitar
> playing buddy said,"they had an ALLMAN BROTHER'S tape
> in the 8 track. If it was me, I'd be listeneing to MY
> tape". That's arrogance. He hadn't made one. He's
> still playing cover tunes in beer bars. Later, I
> became a sound man, bought synths, and started
> composing. Yes, I listen to myself. 95% of my
> recordings are jams with  1 or 3 others. They give me
> inspiration for composing. But if I had just spent
> months in the studio working on an album, I'd probably
> be ready to listen to someone else. J. Zawinal had a
> good point. I listen to myself for the same reason. 
> But there are others who would give the same answer
> out of sheer vanity.
> rig
> 
> 
>       ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and 
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> 
> 

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Subject: Re: BOWIE guitarists (looping)
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Toby G wrote:
> Zappa actually had some loopage going on with delays on the 82 tour.  He 
> had 3 delays and he'd put in a weird phrase into each and let all of 
> them repeat for a while.
>  

...but not live looping...
....he made the loops at soundcheck...
....or did he?...
...(or was it?)...

andy

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I listen to myself a lot! But it has to be live! No recordings.

Per ;-))



On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 8:53 AM, andy butler <akbutler@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> Surely the vanity is to produce music that you yourself aren't going to
> listen to?
>
>  andy
>
>  bill bigrig wrote:
>
> > Howdy,
> >
> >  Back in 74 at the grand opening of a Fred Meyer store
> > in N.W. Wash state, Bachman-Turner made an
> > appearance(this was when their debut album "Overdrive"
> > first came out, after that everyone called them B.T.
> > Overdrive). At the loading dock, my 18 year old guitar
> > playing buddy said,"they had an ALLMAN BROTHER'S tape
> > in the 8 track. If it was me, I'd be listeneing to MY
> > tape". That's arrogance. He hadn't made one. He's
> > still playing cover tunes in beer bars. Later, I
> > became a sound man, bought synths, and started
> > composing. Yes, I listen to myself. 95% of my
> > recordings are jams with  1 or 3 others. They give me
> > inspiration for composing. But if I had just spent
> > months in the studio working on an album, I'd probably
> > be ready to listen to someone else. J. Zawinal had a
> > good point. I listen to myself for the same reason. But there are others
> who would give the same answer
> > out of sheer vanity.
> > rig

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>PSS: How could I find the Crimson DVD with Heroes on it?

It's on the Eyes Wide Open DVD.
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6354786

And, it's on youtube of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMI9y1QRMQo*

Tony
*
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 9:25 PM, Michael Billow <mbillow@gmail.com> wrote:

> Oh I dont know if he was actually 'looping' per say, I was responding to
> the "Heroes by King Crimson" post, by just pointing out that he had a
> relationship to Bowie before he worked with Crimson and Talking Heads. And
> that he was particularly gifted at creating "Frippish" sounds live,
> especially when playing "Heroes": thats why Bowie liked him.
> PS: He also toured with Zappa around that time.
> PSS: How could I find the Crimson DVD with Heroes on it?
>
> > Rick Walker to me
> show details 5:33 PM (51 minutes ago)
>  Reply
>
> So Belew was looping live in concert?
>
> I haven't seen him since he toured with Crimson and the Heads and he
> wasn't in those days.
>
> Do you know what he uses out of curiosity?
>
> thanks for all that info.
>
> Rick
>

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&gt;PSS: How could I find the Crimson DVD with Heroes on it?<br><br>It&#39;s on the Eyes Wide Open DVD.&nbsp; <br><a href="http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6354786">http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6354786</a><br>
<br>And, it&#39;s on youtube of course.<br><br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMI9y1QRMQo">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMI9y1QRMQo</a><b><br><br>Tony<br></b><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 9:25 PM, Michael Billow &lt;<a href="mailto:mbillow@gmail.com">mbillow@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Oh I dont know if he was actually &#39;looping&#39; per say, I was responding
to the &quot;Heroes by King Crimson&quot; post, by just pointing out that he had
a relationship to Bowie before he worked with Crimson and Talking
Heads. And that he was particularly gifted at creating &quot;Frippish&quot;
sounds live, especially when playing &quot;Heroes&quot;: thats why Bowie liked
him. <br>
PS: He also toured with Zappa around that time.<br>PSS: How could I find the Crimson DVD with Heroes on it?<br><br>&gt;<table><tbody><tr><td><table><tbody><tr><td><div>
<span style="color: rgb(200, 137, 0);">Rick Walker</span> <span>to <span>me</span> </span></div></td></tr></tbody></table></td><td><div><span>show details</span> <span title="Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 5:33 PM" alt="Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 5:33 PM">5:33 PM (51 minutes ago)</span> <span></span></div>

</td><td><div><table><tbody><tr><td><img></td><td><div>
Reply</div></td><td><br></td><td><img></td></tr></tbody></table></div></td></tr></tbody></table>






<div><font face="Arial" size="2">So Belew was looping live in concert?</font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">I haven&#39;t seen him since he toured with Crimson and 
the Heads and he wasn&#39;t in those days.</font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Do you know what he uses out of 
curiosity?</font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">thanks for all that info.</font></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div><font color="#888888">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Rick</font></div></font>
</blockquote></div><br><br>

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Subject: OT 1 giant leap
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:07:09 -0300
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the next work of the two guys that spend years traveling arround the  
world and recording all kinds of musicians...

remember "one world one voice?"
its the same idea
global understanding through music!

http://www.whataboutme.tv/

they also spent some hours at my house to record Giba and me on 2  
EDPs, but we spent a while explaining all the sync questions and it  
did not quite fit into their concept, and the way I remember the  
recording and considering the amount of musicians they visited, we may  
not appear in the final version
but it was an impressive meeting anyway!

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 25 16:23:00 2008
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Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:22:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: scott hansen <evanpeewee@yahoo.com>
Subject: BOWIE/FZ (looping guitar)
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yes, it was king crimson "eyes wide open" dvd.
thanks to who posted that, i couldn't remember

and thanks to ted k-for name of guitarist who played w/ bowie and looped (couldn't remember his name either)

there was discussion a while back (yrs ago?) about zappa played around w/ a 2-sec delay (i think) during sound checks, can't remember if it was stated that they were recorded, and i thought someone said some bits of that were on the "make a jazz noise here" cd-one i've always meant to get, but never have....

adrian belew's performance w/ laurie anderson on home on the brave was interesting, i use to have that on tape and watched it for the few bits where he made some weird sounds-i loved that. i remember seeing laurie anderson back in the  '87 or '88-and it was a powerful performance...when she played violin i thought it was amazing-and i think she states that she thinks she's just an ave violinist....not sure if adrian was doing any looped stuff w/ her, it's been a long time since i saw that, and of course i have long since lost that tape...

also -pretty funny to see adrian w/ FZ in baby snakes dvd-he looks so young (as does FZ)-i think from watching that i got a sense at the connection FZ had w/ his audience, they seemed rapid, and the couple of guitar solos he does are amazing considering it was like '79...and boy he had a HUGE rack of guitar gear for processing!!!! in '79!!! 
s---


       
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
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yes, it was king crimson "eyes wide open" dvd.<br>thanks to who posted that, i couldn't remember<br><br>and thanks to ted k-for name of guitarist who played w/ bowie and looped (couldn't remember his name either)<br><br>there was discussion a while back (yrs ago?) about zappa played around w/ a 2-sec delay (i think) during sound checks, can't remember if it was stated that they were recorded, and i thought someone said some bits of that were on the "make a jazz noise here" cd-one i've always meant to get, but never have....<br><br>adrian belew's performance w/ laurie anderson on home on the brave was interesting, i use to have that on tape and watched it for the few bits where he made some weird sounds-i loved that. i remember seeing laurie anderson back in the&nbsp; '87 or '88-and it was a powerful performance...when she played violin i thought it was amazing-and i think she states that she thinks she's just an ave violinist....not sure if adrian was doing any looped stuff
 w/ her, it's been a long time since i saw that, and of course i have long since lost that tape...<br><br>also -pretty funny to see adrian w/ FZ in baby snakes dvd-he looks so young (as does FZ)-i think from watching that i got a sense at the connection FZ had w/ his audience, they seemed rapid, and the couple of guitar solos he does are amazing considering it was like '79...and boy he had a HUGE rack of guitar gear for processing!!!! in '79!!! <br>s---<br><br><p>&#32;



      <hr size=1>Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ "> Try it now.</a>
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Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:02:28 -0400
From: Bill Fox <billyfox@soundscapes.us>
Subject: Galactic Travels Playlist #577 for April 24, 2008
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http://wdiy.org/programs/gt/playlists/2008/080424.html
Galactic Travels is an electronic, ambient, and space music show, that
airs each Thursday at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem,
PA, 93.9 FM in Easton, PA and Phillipsburg, NJ, 93.7 FM in Fogelsville
and Trexlertown, and webcasting on the internet.  WDIY also broadcasts
in Digital HD at 88.1 FM.

                Show #577                April 24, 2008

RECAP:
On this show, I concluded the month-long focus on Create.  The Featured
CD at Midnight was "Biospherical Imagery" on Groove Unlimited Records.

Create: http://wdiy.org/programs/gt/playlists/2008/focus.html#apr


PLAYLIST:

11:04 pm
ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
Kevin Braheny        Starflight 1 *       Galaxies (Hearts of Space)
Fringe Element       Seepage              Subatomic Mayhem (none)
Syndromeda           Mountaintop Consul-  Mythical Pursuit (Horizon)
                       tation With a Slime Mold
vidnaObmana          The Embrace In       Twilight of Perception (Relic)
                       Motion
Steve Roach          Views Beyond         Arc of Passion (Projekt)
Create               Biospherical Imagery Biospherical Imagery (Groove)

12:00 am
ARTIST               TRACK                ALBUM (label)
==================== ==================== ==============================
Create               Endless Corridors    Biospherical Imagery (Groove)
Create               Signs of Life        Biospherical Imagery (Groove)
Create               Mystery Voices       Biospherical Imagery (Groove)
Create               The Day After        Biospherical Imagery (Groove)

1:00 am

 * = excerpt
VA = Various Artists (compilation)
++ = Advance CDR from Artist
-- = Background music under interview


NEXT SHOW:
On the next Galactic Travels, I'll begin a month-long focus on Stephen
Philips.  The Featured CD at Midnight will be "Mile High Chill 1" on
Dark Duck Records.

Bill
=======================================================================
Host of Galactic Travels, an electronic, ambient, and space music
show, Thursdays at 11:04 pm EDT (GMT-4:00) on WDIY 88.1 FM in Allentown
and Bethlehem, 93.9 FM in Easton and Phillipsburg, and on 93.7 FM in
Trexlertown and Fogelsville.  WDIY also broadcasts in HD Digital Radio
on 88.1 FM.
Galactic Travels web site: http://galactictravels.info
MySpace: http://myspace.com/galactictravels
RSS News Feed: http://wdiy.org/programs/gt/rss/enews.xml
Podcasts: http://wdiy.org/programs/gt/rss/gt.xml
Listen on-line to WDIY at http://wdiy.org and click on the LISTEN link
or go directly to: http://rm1.refugemedia.com/ramgen/encoder/wdiy.rm
To subscribe to the galactic-travels mailing list, click on [Join This
Group!] at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/galactic-travels
Playlists are also published at http://billfox.blogspot.com
RSS (2.0) feed from http://billfox.blogspot.com/rss.xml
Atom (0.3) feed from http://billfox.blogspot.com/atom.xml

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 25 21:05:39 2008
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This reminded me - Ani DiFranco used to use a JamMan onstage.

m.c.

-----Original Message-----
From: William Walker [mailto:billwalker@baymoon.com] 
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 9:14 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: RE: The list that will not die


Did anybody mention Patty Larkin? An excellent singer songwriter who's
innovative guitar playing is highly under-rated, she use a boss rc20xl and a
lexicon jam man. There is an article about her in the latest guitar player
magazine. Sorry if I'm being redundant.
 Bill 


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 25 21:30:52 2008
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Subject: Guitar Pickup
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:30:51 -0400
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Sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum, but what's the guitar =20
pickup all the cool kids are using these days?  I have a Seagull cedar =20=

acoustic that plays really nicely and has a pleasant-but-average =20
tone.  I'm interested in processing the signal before it gets to my =20
looper, and would like to be able to pick up taps and other percussive =20=

slaps on the body of the instrument.

While we're on the topic, what you think of the new crop of 'acoustic =20=

guitar' processors that are on the market (e.g. the Fishman stuff, =20
Korg, Boss, etc.)?  My original plan was to loop with my electric =20
basses, but my singer-songwriter groove is coming back, and maybe the =20=

guitar will be in my path as well as a bass.  Then again, an acoustic =20=

guitar with an octaver makes good basslines.

TIA,
Scott
--
"However, faced with a fixed set of options, you are forced to employ =20=

those special, mystical powers =97 imagination and creativity."
- Paul Nagle






From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 25 21:36:34 2008
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Regarding the pickup itself, we had an extensive discussion in December, 
and having the pickup get body noises was part of the requirement (I was 
the one looking). It's worth a dig through the archives as there were a 
ton of useful responses (subject line "acoustic pickups, etc"). I ended 
up being most impressed by the Baggs I-Beam, I'll probably get one this 
summer as an addition to the piezo in my Takamine.

Daryl Shawn
www.swanwelder.com
www.chinapaintingmusic.com

> Sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum, but what's the guitar 
> pickup all the cool kids are using these days?  I have a Seagull cedar 
> acoustic that plays really nicely and has a pleasant-but-average 
> tone.  I'm interested in processing the signal before it gets to my 
> looper, and would like to be able to pick up taps and other percussive 
> slaps on the body of the instrument.
>
> While we're on the topic, what you think of the new crop of 'acoustic 
> guitar' processors that are on the market (e.g. the Fishman stuff, 
> Korg, Boss, etc.)?  My original plan was to loop with my electric 
> basses, but my singer-songwriter groove is coming back, and maybe the 
> guitar will be in my path as well as a bass.  Then again, an acoustic 
> guitar with an octaver makes good basslines.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 25 21:43:53 2008
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Very cool.  Thanks for the tip.  I was surprised that the Sweetwater  
catalog wasn't chock-a-block with this stuff.

On Apr 25, 2008, at 5:36 PM, Daryl Shawn wrote:

> Regarding the pickup itself, we had an extensive discussion in  
> December, and having the pickup get body noises was part of the  
> requirement (I was the one looking). It's worth a dig through the  
> archives as there were a ton of useful responses (subject line  
> "acoustic pickups, etc"). I ended up being most impressed by the  
> Baggs I-Beam, I'll probably get one this summer as an addition to  
> the piezo in my Takamine.
>
> Daryl Shawn
> www.swanwelder.com
> www.chinapaintingmusic.com
>
>> Sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum, but what's the guitar  
>> pickup all the cool kids are using these days?  I have a Seagull  
>> cedar acoustic that plays really nicely and has a pleasant-but- 
>> average tone.  I'm interested in processing the signal before it  
>> gets to my looper, and would like to be able to pick up taps and  
>> other percussive slaps on the body of the instrument.
>>
>> While we're on the topic, what you think of the new crop of  
>> 'acoustic guitar' processors that are on the market (e.g. the  
>> Fishman stuff, Korg, Boss, etc.)?  My original plan was to loop  
>> with my electric basses, but my singer-songwriter groove is coming  
>> back, and maybe the guitar will be in my path as well as a bass.   
>> Then again, an acoustic guitar with an octaver makes good basslines.
>

--
"There is only one music."
- Jonas Hellborg






From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Apr 25 23:34:25 2008
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Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:34:20 -0400
From: phaslem@wightman.ca
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Subject: Re: Guitar Pickup
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I didn't really follow that discussion, but my own personal fav is the =20
Shertler dyn g. It looks like a soundboard pickup but is actually a =20
moving coil mic. Kinda pricey but well worth the sound.

Paul Haslem
Ontario, Canada
www.dulcify.ca




Quoting Scott Kellogg <bassnut@gmail.com>:

> Sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum, but what's the guitar
> pickup all the cool kids are using these days?  I have a Seagull cedar
> acoustic that plays really nicely and has a pleasant-but-average tone.
> I'm interested in processing the signal before it gets to my looper,
> and would like to be able to pick up taps and other percussive slaps on
> the body of the instrument.
>
> While we're on the topic, what you think of the new crop of 'acoustic
> guitar' processors that are on the market (e.g. the Fishman stuff,
> Korg, Boss, etc.)?  My original plan was to loop with my electric
> basses, but my singer-songwriter groove is coming back, and maybe the
> guitar will be in my path as well as a bass.  Then again, an acoustic
> guitar with an octaver makes good basslines.
>
> TIA,
> Scott
> --
> "However, faced with a fixed set of options, you are forced to  =20
> employ those special, mystical powers =E2=80=94 imagination and creativity=
."
> - Paul Nagle


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 00:10:28 2008
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Scott Kellogg wrote:
> Sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum, but what's the guitar 
> pickup all the cool kids are using these days?  I have a Seagull cedar 
> acoustic that plays really nicely and has a pleasant-but-average tone.  
> I'm interested in processing the signal before it gets to my looper, and 
> would like to be able to pick up taps and other percussive slaps on the 
> body of the instrument.
> 
> While we're on the topic, what you think of the new crop of 'acoustic 
> guitar' processors that are on the market (e.g. the Fishman stuff, Korg, 
> Boss, etc.)?  My original plan was to loop with my electric basses, but 
> my singer-songwriter groove is coming back, and maybe the guitar will be 
> in my path as well as a bass.  Then again, an acoustic guitar with an 
> octaver makes good basslines.

K&K Sound's Pure system has gotten positive reviews from people that I 
have met. When I tried it, I thought it had a nice fairly natural sound. 
*Much* nicer than a piezo.

http://www.kksound.com/acousticguitar.html#pure

- Sam

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 01:42:23 2008
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Subject: Re: Guitar Pickup
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 21:42:17 -0400
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Baggs M1A, THE best.
On Apr 25, 2008, at 8:02 PM, Sam Nilsson wrote:

> Scott Kellogg wrote:
>> Sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum, but what's the guitar  
>> pickup all the cool kids are using these days?  I have a Seagull  
>> cedar acoustic that plays really nicely and has a pleasant-but- 
>> average tone.  I'm interested in processing the signal before it  
>> gets to my looper, and would like to be able to pick up taps and  
>> other percussive slaps on the body of the instrument.
>> While we're on the topic, what you think of the new crop of  
>> 'acoustic guitar' processors that are on the market (e.g. the  
>> Fishman stuff, Korg, Boss, etc.)?  My original plan was to loop  
>> with my electric basses, but my singer-songwriter groove is coming  
>> back, and maybe the guitar will be in my path as well as a bass.   
>> Then again, an acoustic guitar with an octaver makes good basslines.
>
> K&K Sound's Pure system has gotten positive reviews from people  
> that I have met. When I tried it, I thought it had a nice fairly  
> natural sound. *Much* nicer than a piezo.
>
> http://www.kksound.com/acousticguitar.html#pure
>
> - Sam
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 03:07:01 2008
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Any opinions on effects processors?  I'd like to be able to get a  
variety of tones and strange whatnots before the signal hits my RC-50.

On Apr 25, 2008, at 9:42 PM, Chris Sewell wrote:

> Baggs M1A, THE best.
> On Apr 25, 2008, at 8:02 PM, Sam Nilsson wrote:
>
>> Scott Kellogg wrote:
>>> Sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum, but what's the guitar  
>>> pickup all the cool kids are using these days?  I have a Seagull  
>>> cedar acoustic that plays really nicely and has a pleasant-but- 
>>> average tone.  I'm interested in processing the signal before it  
>>> gets to my looper, and would like to be able to pick up taps and  
>>> other percussive slaps on the body of the instrument.
>>> While we're on the topic, what you think of the new crop of  
>>> 'acoustic guitar' processors that are on the market (e.g. the  
>>> Fishman stuff, Korg, Boss, etc.)?  My original plan was to loop  
>>> with my electric basses, but my singer-songwriter groove is coming  
>>> back, and maybe the guitar will be in my path as well as a bass.   
>>> Then again, an acoustic guitar with an octaver makes good basslines.
>>
>> K&K Sound's Pure system has gotten positive reviews from people  
>> that I have met. When I tried it, I thought it had a nice fairly  
>> natural sound. *Much* nicer than a piezo.
>>
>> http://www.kksound.com/acousticguitar.html#pure
>>
>> - Sam
>>
>

--
Solve et coagula.





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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>Any opinions on effects =
processors? &nbsp;I'd like to be able to get a variety of tones and =
strange whatnots before the signal hits my RC-50.</div><br><div><div>On =
Apr 25, 2008, at 9:42 PM, Chris Sewell wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>Baggs =
M1A, THE best.<br>On Apr 25, 2008, at 8:02 PM, Sam Nilsson =
wrote:<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">Scott Kellogg =
wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum, but what's =
the guitar pickup all the cool kids are using these days? &nbsp;I have a =
Seagull cedar acoustic that plays really nicely and has a =
pleasant-but-average tone. &nbsp;I'm interested in processing the signal =
before it gets to my looper, and would like to be able to pick up taps =
and other percussive slaps on the body of the =
instrument.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">While we're on the topic, what =
you think of the new crop of 'acoustic guitar' processors that are on =
the market (e.g. the Fishman stuff, Korg, Boss, etc.)? &nbsp;My original =
plan was to loop with my electric basses, but my singer-songwriter =
groove is coming back, and maybe the guitar will be in my path as well =
as a bass. &nbsp;Then again, an acoustic guitar with an octaver makes =
good basslines.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">K&amp;K Sound's =
Pure system has gotten positive reviews from people that I have met. =
When I tried it, I thought it had a nice fairly natural sound. *Much* =
nicer than a piezo.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><a =
href=3D"http://www.kksound.com/acousticguitar.html#pure">http://www.kksoun=
d.com/acousticguitar.html#pure</a><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">- =
Sam<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><br></div></blockquote></div><br><div> =
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div><i>--</i></div><div><i>Solve et =
coagula.</i></div><div><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"> </div><br></body></html>=

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Subject: Re: Guitar Pickup
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:18:23 -0700
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You just can't beat a whammy pedal.  It's what keeps today's man happy.


t
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Scott Kellogg=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 8:06 PM
  Subject: Re: Guitar Pickup


  Any opinions on effects processors?  I'd like to be able to get a =
variety of tones and strange whatnots before the signal hits my RC-50.


  On Apr 25, 2008, at 9:42 PM, Chris Sewell wrote:


    Baggs M1A, THE best.
    On Apr 25, 2008, at 8:02 PM, Sam Nilsson wrote:


      Scott Kellogg wrote:

        Sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum, but what's the =
guitar pickup all the cool kids are using these days?  I have a Seagull =
cedar acoustic that plays really nicely and has a pleasant-but-average =
tone.  I'm interested in processing the signal before it gets to my =
looper, and would like to be able to pick up taps and other percussive =
slaps on the body of the instrument.

        While we're on the topic, what you think of the new crop of =
'acoustic guitar' processors that are on the market (e.g. the Fishman =
stuff, Korg, Boss, etc.)?  My original plan was to loop with my electric =
basses, but my singer-songwriter groove is coming back, and maybe the =
guitar will be in my path as well as a bass.  Then again, an acoustic =
guitar with an octaver makes good basslines.



      K&K Sound's Pure system has gotten positive reviews from people =
that I have met. When I tried it, I thought it had a nice fairly natural =
sound. *Much* nicer than a piezo.



      http://www.kksound.com/acousticguitar.html#pure



      - Sam







  --
  Solve et coagula.








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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16640" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY=20
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"=20
bgColor=3D#fffbf0>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You just can't beat a whammy =
pedal.&nbsp; It's what=20
keeps today's man happy.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>t</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dbassnut@gmail.com href=3D"mailto:bassnut@gmail.com">Scott =
Kellogg</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, April 25, 2008 =
8:06=20
PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Guitar =
Pickup</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>Any opinions on effects processors? &nbsp;I'd like to be able to =
get a=20
  variety of tones and strange whatnots before the signal hits my=20
  RC-50.</DIV><BR>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>On Apr 25, 2008, at 9:42 PM, Chris Sewell wrote:</DIV><BR=20
  class=3DApple-interchange-newline>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
    <DIV>Baggs M1A, THE best.<BR>On Apr 25, 2008, at 8:02 PM, Sam =
Nilsson=20
    wrote:<BR><BR>
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Scott Kellogg wrote:<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">Sorry if this has been discussed ad =
nauseum, but=20
        what's the guitar pickup all the cool kids are using these days? =
&nbsp;I=20
        have a Seagull cedar acoustic that plays really nicely and has a =

        pleasant-but-average tone. &nbsp;I'm interested in processing =
the signal=20
        before it gets to my looper, and would like to be able to pick =
up taps=20
        and other percussive slaps on the body of the=20
    instrument.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">
      <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">While we're on the topic, what you think =
of the=20
        new crop of 'acoustic guitar' processors that are on the market =
(e.g.=20
        the Fishman stuff, Korg, Boss, etc.)? &nbsp;My original plan was =
to loop=20
        with my electric basses, but my singer-songwriter groove is =
coming back,=20
        and maybe the guitar will be in my path as well as a bass. =
&nbsp;Then=20
        again, an acoustic guitar with an octaver makes good=20
      basslines.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">K&amp;K Sound's Pure system has gotten =
positive=20
      reviews from people that I have met. When I tried it, I thought it =
had a=20
      nice fairly natural sound. *Much* nicer than a =
piezo.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><A=20
      =
href=3D"http://www.kksound.com/acousticguitar.html#pure">http://www.kksou=
nd.com/acousticguitar.html#pure</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite">- Sam<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    <BLOCKQUOTE =
type=3D"cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span=20
  style=3D"WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Verdana; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; =
LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: =
2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><SPAN=20
  class=3DApple-style-span=20
  style=3D"WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Verdana; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; =
COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; =
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  <DIV=20
  style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space">
  <DIV><I>--</I></DIV>
  <DIV><I>Solve et coagula.</I></DIV>
  <DIV><BR class=3Dwebkit-block-placeholder></DIV></DIV></SPAN><BR=20
  class=3DApple-interchange-newline></DIV></SPAN><BR=20
  =
class=3DApple-interchange-newline></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: Richard Sales <richard@glasswing.com>
Subject: Re: Guitar Pickup
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:51:55 -0700
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K&K PIckups are incredible.  I have the three way pickup in two guitars 
- mine (Collings) and Hayley's (Webber).

When we first started recording Hayley's record I bought about $10K 
worth of Neumann and Sennheiser mic's.  Mike Gillies, who mixes and 
does tech work at Metallica's studio was helping.  After the mic's I 
got the K&Ks and put one in Hayley's guitar.  Mike said, "Gee... we 
don't need any mic's now!"

I was pissed to say the least.  But the pickups are very close to the 
real thing for me.

Use Lithium batteries.

We DID use mic's.

I have a Sunrise in my 12 string that I also like.  No feedback.  But 
it doesn't sound as good as the K&K.  Great for distorto pedals etc.

Schatten in Canada makes GREAT banjo and resonator guitar pickups.  I 
have one in a Phillips resonator guitar and it is probably the most 
EASY to enjoy of my guitars.  I got a Ultrasound pre amp from them too 
that's very cool.  Cheap.  The K&K banjo pickup is nice but is so big 
it muffles the sound of the banjo live.

www.schattendesign.com

You don't need a pre amp with the K&Ks.  They have one that goes inside 
the guitar.  I can't comment on the other K&K's 'cause I haven't used 
them.  Mine is the Power Mix Trinity:

http://www.kksound.com/powerblendtrinity.html

I have a Highlander in my little parlor Webber guitar.  It's nice.  
Makes it sound like a Tele or something.  I don't use the mic part. But 
it's not as real sounding as the K&K by any means.   I wish that guitar 
had 14 frets to the neck.  It sounds great thru the pedal board and 
amp.

The mic on the K&K is wonderful for recording when you want a really 
accurate sound.  Awful live unless you love uncontrolled feedback.  The 
howl of death.

Haven't tried the RMC pickups (I think I got the name right) but they 
look VERY cool.

AXON is coming out with a new MIDI pickup in May that' I'm interested 
in.  ANyone know anything about it?

richard sales
glassWing farm and studio
vancouver island, b.c.
www.glassWing.com     www.richardsales.com
www.hayleysales.com     www.joannesales.com
www.blueberryfieldsfarm.com
www.broombusters.org
On 25-Apr-08, at 5:02 PM, Sam Nilsson wrote:

> Scott Kellogg wrote:
>> Sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum, but what's the guitar 
>> pickup all the cool kids are using these days?  I have a Seagull 
>> cedar acoustic that plays really nicely and has a 
>> pleasant-but-average tone.  I'm interested in processing the signal 
>> before it gets to my looper, and would like to be able to pick up 
>> taps and other percussive slaps on the body of the instrument.
>> While we're on the topic, what you think of the new crop of 'acoustic 
>> guitar' processors that are on the market (e.g. the Fishman stuff, 
>> Korg, Boss, etc.)?  My original plan was to loop with my electric 
>> basses, but my singer-songwriter groove is coming back, and maybe the 
>> guitar will be in my path as well as a bass.  Then again, an acoustic 
>> guitar with an octaver makes good basslines.
>
> K&K Sound's Pure system has gotten positive reviews from people that I 
> have met. When I tried it, I thought it had a nice fairly natural 
> sound. *Much* nicer than a piezo.
>
> http://www.kksound.com/acousticguitar.html#pure
>
> - Sam
>

--Apple-Mail-7--1053518289
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K&K PIckups are incredible.  I have the three way pickup in two
guitars - mine (Collings) and Hayley's (Webber).  


When we first started recording Hayley's record I bought about $10K
worth of Neumann and Sennheiser mic's.  Mike Gillies, who mixes and
does tech work at Metallica's studio was helping.  After the mic's I
got the K&Ks and put one in Hayley's guitar.  Mike said, "Gee... we
don't need any mic's now!"


I was pissed to say the least.  But the pickups are very close to the
real thing for me. 


Use Lithium batteries.  


We DID use mic's. 


I have a Sunrise in my 12 string that I also like.  No feedback.  But
it doesn't sound as good as the K&K.  Great for distorto pedals etc. 


Schatten in Canada makes GREAT banjo and resonator guitar pickups.  I
have one in a Phillips resonator guitar and it is probably the most
EASY to enjoy of my guitars.  I got a Ultrasound pre amp from them too
that's very cool.  Cheap.  The K&K banjo pickup is nice but is so big
it muffles the sound of the banjo live.  


www.schattendesign.com


You don't need a pre amp with the K&Ks.  They have one that goes
inside the guitar.  I can't comment on the other K&K's 'cause I
haven't used them.  Mine is the Power Mix Trinity:


http://www.kksound.com/powerblendtrinity.html


I have a Highlander in my little parlor Webber guitar.  It's nice. 
Makes it sound like a Tele or something.  I don't use the mic part.
But it's not as real sounding as the K&K by any means.   I wish that
guitar had 14 frets to the neck.  It sounds great thru the pedal board
and amp.


The mic on the K&K is wonderful for recording when you want a really
accurate sound.  Awful live unless you love uncontrolled feedback. 
The howl of death. 


Haven't tried the RMC pickups (I think I got the name right) but they
look VERY cool. 


AXON is coming out with a new MIDI pickup in May that' I'm interested
in.  ANyone know anything about it?


<fontfamily><param>Gadget</param>richard sales

<color><param>7373,7F7F,C5C5</param>glassWing farm and studio</color>

vancouver island, b.c.<color><param>C3C3,9696,1C1C</param>   

www.glassWing.com     www.richardsales.com

www.hayleysales.com     www.joannesales.com

www.blueberryfieldsfarm.com     

www.broombusters.org</color></fontfamily>

On 25-Apr-08, at 5:02 PM, Sam Nilsson wrote:


<excerpt>Scott Kellogg wrote:

<excerpt>Sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum, but what's the
guitar pickup all the cool kids are using these days?  I have a
Seagull cedar acoustic that plays really nicely and has a
pleasant-but-average tone.  I'm interested in processing the signal
before it gets to my looper, and would like to be able to pick up taps
and other percussive slaps on the body of the instrument.

While we're on the topic, what you think of the new crop of 'acoustic
guitar' processors that are on the market (e.g. the Fishman stuff,
Korg, Boss, etc.)?  My original plan was to loop with my electric
basses, but my singer-songwriter groove is coming back, and maybe the
guitar will be in my path as well as a bass.  Then again, an acoustic
guitar with an octaver makes good basslines.

</excerpt>

K&K Sound's Pure system has gotten positive reviews from people that I
have met. When I tried it, I thought it had a nice fairly natural
sound. *Much* nicer than a piezo.


http://www.kksound.com/acousticguitar.html#pure


- Sam


</excerpt>
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Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 22:13:13 -0500
From: Jeff Shirkey <jcshirke@midway.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: Guitar Pickup
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On Apr 25, 2008, at 10:06 PM, Scott Kellogg wrote:

> Any opinions on effects processors?

What's your budget, and what effects are a priority for you?

Jeff

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Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:33:58 -0400
From: "Todd Pafford" <calenlas@gmail.com>
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I can second the praise of the I-Beam.  I've got one in my flamenco
guitar and the sound is fine.  Granted I don't exercise it much as I
mostly play unplugged, but my practice recordings sound good.  Mixing
in a bit of signal from a mic (even a fairly low end one) helps to
open the sound up to breathe when recording.  It does pick up plenty
of top noise (taps & thumps, etc), though I doubt you'd get good
response from thumps on the neck or head of the guitar.

Regarding the issue of acoustic processors, I highly recommend using
something to shape your sound before hitting whatever amplifiers
you're using.  The real benefit of these processors is two-fold:  1) a
parametric mid EQ to fine tune the tone delivered by the pickup, and
2) some sort of notch filter to cut feedback.  These two are MUST
haves when amplifying acoustics.  Of course, more flexible EQ helps,
but that parametric mid must be there.

Personally, I use a Fishman Pro EQ Platinum.  It's fine and does the
job well.  Though I don't know that it's any better than some of its
competitors.  They all sport roughly the same features and as long as
they remain transparent (aside from your EQ tweaks) they're doing
their job in my opinion.

My 2 cents.  Hope they're helpful.
Todd


On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 5:36 PM, Daryl Shawn <highhorse@mhorse.com> wrote:
> Regarding the pickup itself, we had an extensive discussion in December, and
> having the pickup get body noises was part of the requirement (I was the one
> looking). It's worth a dig through the archives as there were a ton of
> useful responses (subject line "acoustic pickups, etc"). I ended up being
> most impressed by the Baggs I-Beam, I'll probably get one this summer as an
> addition to the piezo in my Takamine.
>
>  Daryl Shawn
>  www.swanwelder.com
>  www.chinapaintingmusic.com
>
>
>
>
> > Sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum, but what's the guitar pickup
> all the cool kids are using these days?  I have a Seagull cedar acoustic
> that plays really nicely and has a pleasant-but-average tone.  I'm
> interested in processing the signal before it gets to my looper, and would
> like to be able to pick up taps and other percussive slaps on the body of
> the instrument.
> >
> > While we're on the topic, what you think of the new crop of 'acoustic
> guitar' processors that are on the market (e.g. the Fishman stuff, Korg,
> Boss, etc.)?  My original plan was to loop with my electric basses, but my
> singer-songwriter groove is coming back, and maybe the guitar will be in my
> path as well as a bass.  Then again, an acoustic guitar with an octaver
> makes good basslines.
> >
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 06:29:50 2008
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To: "LOOPERS DELIGHT \(posting\)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: BOWIE guitarists (looping)  (Miles Davis, Bitches Brew)
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Rev Fever wrote:

Apparently, there were some tape loops used in the recording of Miles Davis' 
masterpiece "Bitches Brew", an album which STILL sounds fresh even TODAY.
(Or, so I have heard...)"


Yeah,  this is documented on the extensive liner notes to the new Columbia 
edition of 'Bitches Brew'.
I've read that Miles envisioned percussion loops freeing up the whole 
ensemble in much the same way
that playing modally freed the melodic soloists from the tyranny of static 
chord progressions when he
co-wrote 'In a Silent Way'.

And it's funny,  but I've always thought that 'In A Silent Way'  was really 
the groundbreaking recording in the birth of fusion
NOT 'Bitches Brew'  which gets the credit for it.    It preceeded 'Bitches 
Brew' and, honestly,  I think it's a better record.
It blew my mind when I first hear it.    I didn't realize at the time that 
some of the percussion parts were looped but not
, of course, it's rather easy to hear.    I think this trancey repetitive 
thing is what drew me to it so strongly.

Of course,   none of this is live looping.

This is why I keep asking the same question:

Has anyone actually seen Adrian Belew use live looping on stage during a 
live show?
So far noone has really attested to his live looper status.

I love his music, by the way.............what a creative musician, 
whether he loops live, or not.

Rick Walker 

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Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:37:35 -0600
From: Shayne Cafferata <scafferata@sasktel.net>
Subject: WTB: Electribe
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anyone here have an electribe they'd like to sell?

shayne

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 07:20:23 2008
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hi Rick-hey i've seen A Belew almost everytime he blows thru san fran(not always kinqcrimson tho')-and of course he dazzles everytime-you just never hardlee see anyone so happy on stage...
he does do solo live looping almost everytime too-
saw him back in the 80s w/ his solo band and he was using that eh16sec.ddl-also seem him w/ the fripp eventides in rack.
latest time thru w/ the brother sister act on drum&bass he did some solo looping-i think w/ his johnson millenium amplifiers...
here's a note from some obscure website called loop delite er something :-)
http://www.loopers-delight.com/LDarchive/200102/msg00122.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7HgsHy76BQ



>This is why I keep asking the same question:
>Has anyone actually seen Adrian Belew use live looping on stage during a 
>live show?
>So far noone has really attested to his live looper status.
>I love his music, by the way.............what a creative musician, 
>whether he loops live, or not.
>Rick Walker 
>

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--Apple-Mail-43--1038331551
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I'm looking for a octaver with a clean sound that woud work with  
acoustic instruments, mics.  Any suggestions?

On Apr 26, 2008, at 5:18 AM, Toby G wrote:

> You just can't beat a whammy pedal.  It's what keeps today's man  
> happy.
>
>
> t
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Scott Kellogg
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 8:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Guitar Pickup
>
> Any opinions on effects processors?  I'd like to be able to get a  
> variety of tones and strange whatnots before the signal hits my RC-50.
>
> On Apr 25, 2008, at 9:42 PM, Chris Sewell wrote:
>
>> Baggs M1A, THE best.
>> On Apr 25, 2008, at 8:02 PM, Sam Nilsson wrote:
>>
>>> Scott Kellogg wrote:
>>>> Sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum, but what's the  
>>>> guitar pickup all the cool kids are using these days?  I have a  
>>>> Seagull cedar acoustic that plays really nicely and has a  
>>>> pleasant-but-average tone.  I'm interested in processing the  
>>>> signal before it gets to my looper, and would like to be able to  
>>>> pick up taps and other percussive slaps on the body of the  
>>>> instrument.
>>>> While we're on the topic, what you think of the new crop of  
>>>> 'acoustic guitar' processors that are on the market (e.g. the  
>>>> Fishman stuff, Korg, Boss, etc.)?  My original plan was to loop  
>>>> with my electric basses, but my singer-songwriter groove is  
>>>> coming back, and maybe the guitar will be in my path as well as a  
>>>> bass.  Then again, an acoustic guitar with an octaver makes good  
>>>> basslines.
>>>
>>> K&K Sound's Pure system has gotten positive reviews from people  
>>> that I have met. When I tried it, I thought it had a nice fairly  
>>> natural sound. *Much* nicer than a piezo.
>>>
>>> http://www.kksound.com/acousticguitar.html#pure
>>>
>>> - Sam
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Solve et coagula.
>
>
>
>
>


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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I'm looking for a octaver with =
a clean sound that woud work with acoustic instruments, mics. &nbsp;Any =
suggestions?<div><br><div><div>On Apr 26, 2008, at 5:18 AM, Toby G =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: =
separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Goudy Old Style'; =
font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; =
text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div bgcolor=3D"#fffbf0" =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><font face=3D"Arial" =
size=3D"2">You just can't beat a whammy pedal.&nbsp; It's what keeps =
today's man happy.</font></div><div><font face=3D"Arial" =
size=3D"2"></font>&nbsp;</div><div><font face=3D"Arial" =
size=3D"2"></font>&nbsp;</div><div><font face=3D"Arial" =
size=3D"2">t</font></div><blockquote style=3D"padding-right: 0px; =
padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; margin-right: 0px; =
"><div style=3D"font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; ">----- =
Original Message -----</div><div style=3D"background-image: initial; =
background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; =
-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; =
background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); font: normal normal normal =
10pt/normal arial; background-position: initial initial; =
"><b>From:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
title=3D"bassnut@gmail.com" href=3D"mailto:bassnut@gmail.com">Scott =
Kellogg</a></div><div style=3D"font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal =
arial; "><b>To:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
title=3D"Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@looper=
s-delight.com</a></div><div style=3D"font: normal normal normal =
10pt/normal arial; "><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Friday, April 25, 2008 8:06 =
PM</div><div style=3D"font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; =
"><b>Subject:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Re: =
Guitar Pickup</div><div><br></div><div>Any opinions on effects =
processors? &nbsp;I'd like to be able to get a variety of tones and =
strange whatnots before the signal hits my RC-50.</div><br><div><div>On =
Apr 25, 2008, at 9:42 PM, Chris Sewell wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>Baggs =
M1A, THE best.<br>On Apr 25, 2008, at 8:02 PM, Sam Nilsson =
wrote:<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">Scott Kellogg =
wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum, but what's =
the guitar pickup all the cool kids are using these days? &nbsp;I have a =
Seagull cedar acoustic that plays really nicely and has a =
pleasant-but-average tone. &nbsp;I'm interested in processing the signal =
before it gets to my looper, and would like to be able to pick up taps =
and other percussive slaps on the body of the =
instrument.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">While we're on the topic, what =
you think of the new crop of 'acoustic guitar' processors that are on =
the market (e.g. the Fishman stuff, Korg, Boss, etc.)? &nbsp;My original =
plan was to loop with my electric basses, but my singer-songwriter =
groove is coming back, and maybe the guitar will be in my path as well =
as a bass. &nbsp;Then again, an acoustic guitar with an octaver makes =
good basslines.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">K&amp;K Sound's =
Pure system has gotten positive reviews from people that I have met. =
When I tried it, I thought it had a nice fairly natural sound. *Much* =
nicer than a piezo.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><a =
href=3D"http://www.kksound.com/acousticguitar.html#pure">http://www.kksoun=
d.com/acousticguitar.html#pure</a><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">- =
Sam<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><br></div></blockquote></div><br><div><span=
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"word-spacing: 0px; font: normal =
normal normal 12px/normal Verdana; text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
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-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"word-spacing: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal =
Verdana; text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-indent: 0px; =
white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate; =
orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div><i>--</i></div><div><i>Solve et =
coagula.</i></div><div><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br></blockquote></div></span><b=
r =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></blockquote></div><br></div></body></=
html>=

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From: Matt Stevens <mattstevensguitar@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: effects processors
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 09:13:11 +0100
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Apparently the POG is good

On 26 Apr 2008, at 09:05, doc rossi wrote:

> I'm looking for a octaver with a clean sound that woud work with  
> acoustic instruments, mics.  Any suggestions?
>
> On Apr 26, 2008, at 5:18 AM, Toby G wrote:
>
>> You just can't beat a whammy pedal.  It's what keeps today's man  
>> happy.
>>
>>
>> t
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Scott Kellogg
>> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 8:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: Guitar Pickup
>>
>> Any opinions on effects processors?  I'd like to be able to get a  
>> variety of tones and strange whatnots before the signal hits my  
>> RC-50.
>>
>> On Apr 25, 2008, at 9:42 PM, Chris Sewell wrote:
>>
>>> Baggs M1A, THE best.
>>> On Apr 25, 2008, at 8:02 PM, Sam Nilsson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Scott Kellogg wrote:
>>>>> Sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum, but what's the  
>>>>> guitar pickup all the cool kids are using these days?  I have a  
>>>>> Seagull cedar acoustic that plays really nicely and has a  
>>>>> pleasant-but-average tone.  I'm interested in processing the  
>>>>> signal before it gets to my looper, and would like to be able  
>>>>> to pick up taps and other percussive slaps on the body of the  
>>>>> instrument.
>>>>> While we're on the topic, what you think of the new crop of  
>>>>> 'acoustic guitar' processors that are on the market (e.g. the  
>>>>> Fishman stuff, Korg, Boss, etc.)?  My original plan was to loop  
>>>>> with my electric basses, but my singer-songwriter groove is  
>>>>> coming back, and maybe the guitar will be in my path as well as  
>>>>> a bass.  Then again, an acoustic guitar with an octaver makes  
>>>>> good basslines.
>>>>
>>>> K&K Sound's Pure system has gotten positive reviews from people  
>>>> that I have met. When I tried it, I thought it had a nice fairly  
>>>> natural sound. *Much* nicer than a piezo.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.kksound.com/acousticguitar.html#pure
>>>>
>>>> - Sam
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Solve et coagula.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


--Apple-Mail-4--1037842634
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
Apparently the POG is good<div><br><div><div>On 26 Apr 2008, at 09:05, =
doc rossi wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">I'm looking for a octaver with a clean sound that woud =
work with acoustic instruments, mics. =A0Any =
suggestions?<div><br><div><div>On Apr 26, 2008, at 5:18 AM, Toby G =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: =
separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Goudy Old Style'; =
font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; =
text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div bgcolor=3D"#fffbf0" =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><font face=3D"Arial" =
size=3D"2">You just can't beat a whammy pedal.=A0 It's what keeps =
today's man happy.</font></div><div><font face=3D"Arial" =
size=3D"2"></font>=A0</div><div><font face=3D"Arial" =
size=3D"2"></font>=A0</div><div><font face=3D"Arial" =
size=3D"2">t</font></div><blockquote style=3D"padding-right: 0px; =
padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; border-left-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; margin-right: 0px; =
"><div style=3D"font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; ">----- =
Original Message -----</div><div style=3D"background-image: initial; =
background-repeat: initial; background-attachment: initial; =
-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; =
background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228); font: normal normal normal =
10pt/normal arial; background-position: initial initial; =
"><b>From:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><a =
title=3D"bassnut@gmail.com" href=3D"mailto:bassnut@gmail.com">Scott =
Kellogg</a></div><div style=3D"font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal =
arial; "><b>To:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span><a =
title=3D"Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@looper=
s-delight.com</a></div><div style=3D"font: normal normal normal =
10pt/normal arial; "><b>Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span>Friday, April 25, 2008 8:06 =
PM</div><div style=3D"font: normal normal normal 10pt/normal arial; =
"><b>Subject:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</span>Re: =
Guitar Pickup</div><div><br></div><div>Any opinions on effects =
processors? =A0I'd like to be able to get a variety of tones and strange =
whatnots before the signal hits my RC-50.</div><br><div><div>On Apr 25, =
2008, at 9:42 PM, Chris Sewell wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>Baggs =
M1A, THE best.<br>On Apr 25, 2008, at 8:02 PM, Sam Nilsson =
wrote:<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">Scott Kellogg =
wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum, but what's =
the guitar pickup all the cool kids are using these days? =A0I have a =
Seagull cedar acoustic that plays really nicely and has a =
pleasant-but-average tone. =A0I'm interested in processing the signal =
before it gets to my looper, and would like to be able to pick up taps =
and other percussive slaps on the body of the =
instrument.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">While we're on the topic, what =
you think of the new crop of 'acoustic guitar' processors that are on =
the market (e.g. the Fishman stuff, Korg, Boss, etc.)? =A0My original =
plan was to loop with my electric basses, but my singer-songwriter =
groove is coming back, and maybe the guitar will be in my path as well =
as a bass. =A0Then again, an acoustic guitar with an octaver makes good =
basslines.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">K&amp;K Sound's =
Pure system has gotten positive reviews from people that I have met. =
When I tried it, I thought it had a nice fairly natural sound. *Much* =
nicer than a piezo.<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><a =
href=3D"http://www.kksound.com/acousticguitar.html#pure">http://www.kksoun=
d.com/acousticguitar.html#pure</a><br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">- =
Sam<br></blockquote><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><br></div></blockquote></div><br><div><span=
 class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"word-spacing: 0px; font: normal =
normal normal 12px/normal Verdana; text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
border-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"word-spacing: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal =
Verdana; text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-indent: 0px; =
white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate; =
orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div><i>--</i></div><div><i>Solve et =
coagula.</i></div><div><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br></blockquote></div></span><b=
r =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></blockquote></div><br></div></blockqu=
ote></div><br></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-4--1037842634--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 08:32:13 2008
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samba - schrieb:
>   They even imitate us when we use things that are trash. I love making 
> music from junk,But  a car company dismantling a new vehicle to make 
> musical junk sculptures for an ad campaign really annoys me.  Nothing 
> new though,I found magazine ads from the 30s that appropriated dada and 
> surrealism.

Yes and no, usually advertising is just annoying, but I must admit there 
are differences. I saw ads (only in the cinema btw) which expose high 
artistic skills. Of course the aim and content isn't art at all with 
only few, mostly questionable, exceptions (remember the Benneton ads?).

On the other hand it is a true opportunity for an artist to be equipped 
with no limits in material and resources. This carries a chance and a 
trap at the same time. But taking the chance and avoiding the trap is in 
the responsibility of the artist...

For the artist herself its also a question of moral, what kind of 
company am I supporting with my creativity, and does it conflict with my 
artistic goals. This would give me the biggest headache...

I definitely prefer that a company is spending its ad millions for such 
a campaign than for the usual "I have the nicest car, look at it in the 
same perspective as all other competitors show it" or the "sex sells" 
perspective...

Artistically this is a short shot, but at least could be inspirational 
for young people who don't know anything about art history. The artists 
involved got a chance to develop their skills, and had a "day job" which 
could feed their "real art" for quite a time, not only money wise, also 
in terms of their skills and probably material/gear...

In that specific case, the aesthetics don't fit my taste at all, its 
even the opposite of the poetic connotations which usually come with 
using junk as material. The promoters obviously decided out of some 
abstract knowledge, but without any understanding, of the history of art...
Ads are specified by the complete lack of depth, it even seems its a 
underlying principle is, to avoid any depth. Though I do know exceptions 
for that rule as well.

Stefan

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|\-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 09:01:54 2008
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synchro1 schrieb:
> fewer than 200 individuals of the world's total population would
> enjoy this piece.

This is so easy to prove wrong, I am sure alone with pulling out that 
story it will be played more than 200 times and paying well with 
royalties for the creation of that collage.

Listening now, and enjoying... ;-) It's wonderfully terrible...
If it wouldn't be a collage that would change just before it becomes 
unbearable it would be - well, unbearable...
Anybody knows of Mrs. Miller? Its so funny. It all depends on the 
perspective...
And on the most unwanted instruments, I am sure there are more than 
200*200 players for each, accordion and bagpipe in the world...

All this is coming out of a statistical perspective. But if you look at 
taste in a statistical way, the result will be 100% nonsense. Its so 
obvious, that stories about that are always funny, but I doubt that 
statisticians would ever want to get it, because its their main source 
of income. All the big boring multinational trusts want to know the 
average taste of mankind to create the everlasting product everybody 
wants. I know they will fail forever... (Unfortunately their efforts 
kill tasteful craftsmen...)

Or in short:
The common factor of the average taste is the absence of taste...

This is true for bad taste and good taste...
(replace "taste" with "bad taste" or with "good taste"... ;-)

Stefan

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|\-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 12:01:03 2008
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From: "Per Boysen" <perboysen@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Chord progressions, Multi Lateral Improvisation (looping) (Miles Davis, Bitches Brew)
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On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 8:29 AM, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:

>  I've read that Miles envisioned percussion loops freeing up the whole
> ensemble in much the same way
>  that playing modally freed the melodic soloists from the tyranny of static
> chord progressions


I find this post highly interesting because it hints at an important
"change of rules" that has been brought in thanks to live looping
technology. Back in the days chord progression were looked at as
"tyrannic" restrictions in improvised music. With the modern looping
gear this has not to be, since loops can be instantly changed to
evolve and also "pitched" on-the-fly into any chord progression. In
essence the "background" chord structure can be instantly improvised
as well as  melody lines. In my praxis I prefer to call this Multi
Lateral Improvisation. And I predict a revival for chord analysis
based improvisation!

Another way of working around that traditional obstacle was causing
Ornette Coleman to speak about "playing the music rather than the
background". That view is also obsolete now in the days of modern live
looping gear that makes it possible for musicians to improvise a
background to a written lead line, letting everything float
dialectically or even to play solely backgrounds in an improvised
manner (thus making the listener "create" the lead lines in his/her
imagination, a "psychedelic" technique I like using very much).

BTW - that expression "modal improvisation", isn't it actually
describing a musical restriction? I've never fully bought into it
because fact is you can as well vary your modal expression even while
moving through a harmonic landscape! So there's no need anymore to
"dumb down" the music by taking away chords just in order to make room
for more modal expression. A bit of both takes makes music more
interesting IMHO.

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 14:59:14 2008
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Nico Spahni <nicosp@gmx.net>
Subject: OT: sound to picture metamorphosis
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 16:59:10 +0200
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Lying in the sun, I've been thinking about a sound to picture  
metamorphosis  - maybe just an early sign of a sunstroke ;-).

Wouldn't it be nice, if some entity (probably in the form of an  
ingenious program) could visualize what we play? And I'm not talking  
about a notation program or a spectrum analyzer. What I have in mind  
is more like a painting that is created in real-time based on what is  
played. I know there's software (e.g Metasynth) that does the  
opposite, that is images are translated to sound. Any comments on this?

Cheers from Switzerland

Nico

www.myspace.com/nicospahni
www.recpro.ch


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 15:08:08 2008
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Subject: RE: sound to picture metamorphosis
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 08:08:06 -0700
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I've been wondering about 'audio visualization' lately as well...  wondering
what s/w might be available to accomplish this.   I'm curious to see
responses to this thread

Qua

-----Original Message-----
From: Nico Spahni [mailto:nicosp@gmx.net] 
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 7:59 AM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: OT: sound to picture metamorphosis

Lying in the sun, I've been thinking about a sound to picture  
metamorphosis  - maybe just an early sign of a sunstroke ;-).

Wouldn't it be nice, if some entity (probably in the form of an  
ingenious program) could visualize what we play? And I'm not talking  
about a notation program or a spectrum analyzer. What I have in mind  
is more like a painting that is created in real-time based on what is  
played. I know there's software (e.g Metasynth) that does the  
opposite, that is images are translated to sound. Any comments on this?

Cheers from Switzerland

Nico

www.myspace.com/nicospahni
www.recpro.ch


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 15:16:51 2008
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Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 00:10:06 +0900
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Sunao Inami <webmaster@cavestudio.com>
Subject:  OT: New Release "V.A / Machines Against Hunger (2CD)"
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Hi LD,

Sorry for off topic.
my new release information.

"V.A / Machines Against Hunger (2CD)"

http://shop.cavestudio.org/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/536

This two (2) CD compilation has 34 bands & tracks.
The compilation is a project to bring awareness and support to hunger 
in the world today.
All profit from sales of this compilation will be donated to Action 
Against Hunger.
All tracks are previously unreleased.
Including side projects of Front 242's Partick Codenys & JL DeMeyer, 
Nohno (formerly member of Clock DVA), K-BEREIT (Formerly of Cobalt 60 
& Kriegsbereit) and much more!

Track List (Artist/Track)

Disc One

01. K-BEREIT - Hu[a}ngry
02. Essence Of Mind - How Does It Feel [Machines Against Hunger Edit]
03. Implant - The Stimulator [People Theatre's Final Call Mix]
04. Container 90 & St$B]S(Bm Cafe - 1/15
05. Dawn Of Ashes - Nail Driven [Die Sektor RMX]
06. Nohno - Unbalanced
07. The Crystalline Effect - Nothing Warms This Room [Machines 
Against Hunger Mix]
08. Threat Level 5 - Tripping
09. Diskonnekted - Broken [Razed in Black Mix]
10. Sunao Inami - Decreases
11. Code Machine - You Say, I Say
12. Interface - Land Of Confusion
13. Destroid - Revolution [Machines Against Hunger Version]
14. Nurzery[Rhymes] - Alpha-Omega [Wynardtage RMX]
15. NTRSN - Innerbleeding v1
16. Biodrone - Last Waltz

Disc Two

01. Hi-Tek Homeless - Planet Hump
02. The Tenth Stage - Black [Machines Against Hunger Slow Remix]
03. Ionic Vision - This Life
04. Radiotron 36 - Burned Out Cinder
05. Carphax Files - Guns And Violins
06. Empusa [feat. FrightDoll] - Unpreventable
07. The Weathermen - Your Town
08. Preemptive Strike 0.1 - Lethal Defense Systems [DeadJump Remix]
09. DIVE - Behind the Sun [K-Bereit Light Speed Remix]
10. Autoclav1.1 - This Is Untitled [Magrette Mix by Coreline]
11. Parade Ground - Entertain Me
12. Man+Machines - Revolt
13. Psyche - Tears [Original]
14. Eisdrive - Reeperbahn
15. Je$us Loves Amerika - Cifer
16. Chinese Theatre - I'm Leaving You Behind (Help The Poor Version)
17. Modern Cubism - Le Serpent Qui Danse
18. Derma-Tek - Mauled [Tau factor Remix]


more info:
Sigsaly Transmissions Media
http://www.sigmedia.us/new_releases/sigcd001.htm


  Thanks

  Sunao Inami
http://www.myspace.com/sunao

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 15:33:51 2008
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Subject: OT Miles Davis BITCHES BREW
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 08:33:49 -0700
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    Good point about In a Silent Way as a seminal fusion recording. I think=
 it's true harmonicly. I've always thought that Jimi Hendrix's first 2 albu=
mes were what started Fusion. After all it's the fusion of Jazz and Rock,an=
d Hendrix is the one that expanded rock's pallet into areas the jazzers had=
n't gone ,the rest of it was extremely simplistic . Besides the fact that r=
ock's populairty was taking the jazzers incomes away,this was an actual art=
istic challenge.  I tend to think this is reallly obvious ,but of course ob=
vious depends on what's visible from where one stands.
 Gil Evans the  "lone arranger' of Miles' Sketches of Spain was scheduled t=
o work with Hendrix around the time of his death. Since Jimi couldn't make =
it ,Evans did a recording of his  tunes. Gil EVans Orchestra Plays the Musi=
c if Jimi Hendrix " Wildest big band ever,as outside as anything the Art En=
semble did,but w/ 20 players




_________________________________________________________________
Spell a grand slam in this game where word skill meets World Series. Get in=
 the game.
http://club.live.com/word_slugger.aspx?icid=3Dword_slugger_wlhm_admod_april=
08=

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</head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Good point about In a Silent Way as a seminal fusion rec=
ording. I think it's true harmonicly. I've always thought that Jimi Hendrix=
's first 2 albumes were what started Fusion. After all it's the fusion of J=
azz and Rock,and Hendrix is the one that expanded rock's pallet into areas =
the jazzers hadn't gone ,the rest of it was extremely simplistic . Besides =
the fact that rock's populairty was taking the jazzers incomes away,this wa=
s an actual artistic challenge.&nbsp; I tend to think this is reallly obvio=
us ,but of course obvious depends on what's visible from where one stands.<=
br>&nbsp;Gil Evans the&nbsp; "lone arranger' of Miles' Sketches of Spain wa=
s scheduled to work with Hendrix around the time of his death. Since Jimi c=
ouldn't make it ,Evans did a recording of his&nbsp; tunes. Gil EVans Orches=
tra Plays the Music if Jimi Hendrix " Wildest big band ever,as outside as a=
nything the Art Ensemble did,but w/ 20 players<br><span class=3D"body"></sp=
an><span class=3D"EC_EC_EC_EC_EC_bodybold"></span><br><br><br><br /><hr />S=
pell a grand slam in this game where word skill meets World Series. <a href=
=3D'http://club.live.com/word_slugger.aspx?icid=3Dword_slugger_wlhm_admod_a=
pril08' target=3D'_new'>Get in the game.</a></body>
</html>=

--_140ec78c-a93c-4426-86f5-818ef4af8c60_--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 15:43:55 2008
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Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 17:43:50 +0200
From: Claude Voit <c.voit@vtx.ch>
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Subject: OT: searching for a very easy mp3 recorder (xp)
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Hi

with the idea to have a microphone hanging in my guitar teaching area, 
I'm desperately searching for a little mp3 recorder (xp) that could be 
activated and handled by 3 or four simple key presses.
the idea being to record snippets of a guitar lesson that I could 
transfer to a students usb flash drive.

- must be handled by comp keyboard presses away from screen
- save as mp3 44.1 128 k
- sequential naming
- compatible with RME multiface

I've already downloaded and installed several of them without finding 
one that sees my multiface (MME/WDM last drivers works fine with cubase 
and wavelab)


thanks for your help

Claude

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 15:56:19 2008
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 Stefan ,I agree  there are ads that are extremely creative ,yes artists do=
ing ads have big budgets,the content isn't the point,the ads only exist to =
get the coprortae name imprinted in the public mind. Some of  the big budge=
t TV ads do all sorts of very impresive cutting edge techniques to get peop=
les attention,and the limited time frame can be a real creative spur too.  =
You have to have real chops to function in that league. I still refuse to w=
atch TV though,even if  some of the ads are well done .
  After WWll when NY became the Art capital and abstract expressionim ruled=
 , some painters became very concerned with Surface,and abjured depth altog=
ether. This is coincides with the beginnings of conceptualism,which eventua=
lly eclipsed most of the action orientation of painting,and pretty much all=
 of the technique.In fact ot eclipsed traditional forms,and form itself. So=
me conceptualists don't even create works of art,which might be a good thin=
g.
. I saw ads (only in the cinema btw) which expose high=20
artistic skills. Of course the aim and content isn't art at all with=20
only few, mostly questionable, exceptions (remember the Benneton ads?).
=20
On the other hand it is a true opportunity for an artist to be equipped=20
with no limits in material and resources. This carries a chance and a=20
trap at the same time. But taking the chance and avoiding the trap is in=20
the responsibility of the artist...
=20
Ads are specified by the complete lack of depth, it even seems its a=20
underlying principle is, to avoid any depth.
_________________________________________________________________
In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger.
http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_Refr=
esh_realtime_042008=

--_0c426e33-96f2-486d-8049-d461640c2b7f_
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body.hmmessage
{
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FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma
}
</style>
</head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'>
&nbsp;Stefan ,I agree&nbsp; there are ads that are extremely creative ,yes =
artists doing ads have big budgets,the content isn't the point,the ads only=
 exist to get the coprortae name imprinted in the public mind. Some of&nbsp=
; the big budget TV ads do all sorts of very impresive cutting edge techniq=
ues to get peoples attention,and the limited time frame can be a real creat=
ive spur too.&nbsp; You have to have real chops to function in that league.=
 I still refuse to watch TV though,even if&nbsp; some of the ads are well d=
one .<br>&nbsp; After WWll when NY became the Art capital and abstract expr=
essionim ruled , some painters became very concerned with Surface,and abjur=
ed depth altogether. This is coincides with the beginnings of conceptualism=
,which eventually eclipsed most of the action orientation of painting,and p=
retty much all of the technique.In fact ot eclipsed traditional forms,and f=
orm itself. Some conceptualists don't even create works of art,which might =
be a good thing.<br><blockquote><blockquote><pre>. I saw ads (only in the c=
inema btw) which expose high <br>artistic skills. Of course the aim and con=
tent isn't art at all with <br>only few, mostly questionable, exceptions (r=
emember the Benneton ads?).<br> <br>On the other hand it is a true opportun=
ity for an artist to be equipped <br>with no limits in material and resourc=
es. This carries a chance and a <br>trap at the same time. But taking the c=
hance and avoiding the trap is in <br>the responsibility of the artist...<b=
r> <br>Ads are specified by the complete lack of depth, it even seems its a=
 <br>underlying principle is, to avoid any depth.</pre></blockquote></block=
quote><br /><hr />In a rush? <a href=3D'http://www.windowslive.com/messenge=
r/overview.html?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_realtime_042008' target=3D'_new=
'>Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger.</a></body>
</html>=

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 16:11:43 2008
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From: "Byron Howell" <howell.byron@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Looping philosophy
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I found a very old thread in the archives and someone posted who was
exploring music perceptions and was possibly doing a PHD asking the
question "Why do we loop"

His masters thesis was entitled  "A Connection Between
Schenkerian Analysis and Godel's Theorem: The Urlinie as Formally
Undecidable." I am fascinated by musical perception, and this notion of
'why we Loop" is no less intriguing.

Ive had a look around and cant find the thesis and the email address is outdated

anyone know where I might find a copy of the thesis (I'm hoping
perhaps the author is still a list member)

Any other research anyone knows about along these lines would be most helpfull?

Byron

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 16:52:38 2008
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Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 12:52:36 -0400
From: "Patrick Suler" <patricksuler@gmail.com>
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For simplicity and inexpensiveness, try the EH Micro POG. For complexity and
expensiveness, try the EH HOG. The HOG's tracking is pretty amazing for a
device without a pickup.

On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 4:05 AM, doc rossi <docittern@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm looking for a octaver with a clean sound that woud work with acoustic
> instruments, mics.  Any suggestions?
> On Apr 26, 2008, at 5:18 AM, Toby G wrote:
>
> You just can't beat a whammy pedal.  It's what keeps today's man happy.
>
>
> t
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Scott Kellogg <bassnut@gmail.com>
> *To:* Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> *Sent:* Friday, April 25, 2008 8:06 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Guitar Pickup
>
> Any opinions on effects processors?  I'd like to be able to get a variety
> of tones and strange whatnots before the signal hits my RC-50.
>
> On Apr 25, 2008, at 9:42 PM, Chris Sewell wrote:
>
> Baggs M1A, THE best.
> On Apr 25, 2008, at 8:02 PM, Sam Nilsson wrote:
>
> Scott Kellogg wrote:
>
> Sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum, but what's the guitar pickup
> all the cool kids are using these days?  I have a Seagull cedar acoustic
> that plays really nicely and has a pleasant-but-average tone.  I'm
> interested in processing the signal before it gets to my looper, and would
> like to be able to pick up taps and other percussive slaps on the body of
> the instrument.
>
> While we're on the topic, what you think of the new crop of 'acoustic
> guitar' processors that are on the market (e.g. the Fishman stuff, Korg,
> Boss, etc.)?  My original plan was to loop with my electric basses, but my
> singer-songwriter groove is coming back, and maybe the guitar will be in my
> path as well as a bass.  Then again, an acoustic guitar with an octaver
> makes good basslines.
>
>
> K&K Sound's Pure system has gotten positive reviews from people that I
> have met. When I tried it, I thought it had a nice fairly natural sound.
> *Much* nicer than a piezo.
>
>
> http://www.kksound.com/acousticguitar.html#pure
>
>
> - Sam
>
>
>
>
> *--*
> *Solve et coagula.*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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For simplicity and inexpensiveness, try the EH Micro POG. For complexity and expensiveness, try the EH HOG. The HOG&#39;s tracking is pretty amazing for a device without a pickup.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 4:05 AM, doc rossi &lt;<a href="mailto:docittern@gmail.com">docittern@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div style="">I&#39;m looking for a octaver with a clean sound that woud work with acoustic instruments, mics. &nbsp;Any suggestions?<div>
<br><div><div>On Apr 26, 2008, at 5:18 AM, Toby G wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><span style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><div bgcolor="#fffbf0" style="">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">You just can&#39;t beat a whammy pedal.&nbsp; It&#39;s what keeps today&#39;s man happy.</font></div><div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font>&nbsp;</div><div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font>&nbsp;</div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">t</font></div><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"><div>----- Original Message -----</div><div style="background-color: rgb(228, 228, 228);">
<b>From:</b><span>&nbsp;</span><a title="bassnut@gmail.com" href="mailto:bassnut@gmail.com" target="_blank">Scott Kellogg</a></div><div><b>To:</b><span>&nbsp;</span><a title="Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" href="mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" target="_blank">Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</a></div>
<div><b>Sent:</b><span>&nbsp;</span>Friday, April 25, 2008 8:06 PM</div><div><b>Subject:</b><span>&nbsp;</span>Re: Guitar Pickup</div><div><br></div><div>Any opinions on effects processors? &nbsp;I&#39;d like to be able to get a variety of tones and strange whatnots before the signal hits my RC-50.</div>
<br><div><div>On Apr 25, 2008, at 9:42 PM, Chris Sewell wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>Baggs M1A, THE best.<br>On Apr 25, 2008, at 8:02 PM, Sam Nilsson wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">Scott Kellogg wrote:<br>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum, but what&#39;s the guitar pickup all the cool kids are using these days? &nbsp;I have a Seagull cedar acoustic that plays really nicely and has a pleasant-but-average tone. &nbsp;I&#39;m interested in processing the signal before it gets to my looper, and would like to be able to pick up taps and other percussive slaps on the body of the instrument.<br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">While we&#39;re on the topic, what you think of the new crop of &#39;acoustic guitar&#39; processors that are on the market (e.g. the Fishman stuff, Korg, Boss, etc.)? &nbsp;My original plan was to loop with my electric basses, but my singer-songwriter groove is coming back, and maybe the guitar will be in my path as well as a bass. &nbsp;Then again, an acoustic guitar with an octaver makes good basslines.<br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">K&amp;K Sound&#39;s Pure system has gotten positive reviews from people that I have met. When I tried it, I thought it had a nice fairly natural sound. *Much* nicer than a piezo.<br>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://www.kksound.com/acousticguitar.html#pure" target="_blank">http://www.kksound.com/acousticguitar.html#pure</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">- Sam<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br></div></blockquote></div><br><div><span style="word-spacing: 0px; text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate;"><div style="">
<span style="word-spacing: 0px; text-transform: none; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); text-indent: 0px; white-space: normal; letter-spacing: normal; border-collapse: separate;"><div style=""><div><i>--</i></div><div><i>Solve et coagula.</i></div>
<div><br></div></div></span><br></div></span><br></div><br></blockquote></div></span><br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br>

------=_Part_860_20281573.1209228756286--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 17:26:27 2008
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Did you try this already?
 use Control Panel>>Sounds and Audio Devices>>Audio
to make a couple of tracks of the Multiface the 
Windows Default Device for Recording.

If that doesn't work, download Asio4All,
configure it provide Asio drivers for the RME
(then make those default device if needed)

andy butler




Claude Voit wrote:
> Hi
> 
> with the idea to have a microphone hanging in my guitar teaching area, 
> I'm desperately searching for a little mp3 recorder (xp) that could be 
> activated and handled by 3 or four simple key presses.
> the idea being to record snippets of a guitar lesson that I could 
> transfer to a students usb flash drive.
> 
> - must be handled by comp keyboard presses away from screen
> - save as mp3 44.1 128 k
> - sequential naming
> - compatible with RME multiface
> 
> I've already downloaded and installed several of them without finding 
> one that sees my multiface (MME/WDM last drivers works fine with cubase 
> and wavelab)
> 
> 
> thanks for your help
> 
> Claude
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 17:40:50 2008
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Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 20:12:18 +0200
From: Luca Formentini <luca@unguitar.com>
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Claude ( dear Claude),
did you dowload Digicheck free Rme software ?

It started as an audio analizer/digital checker, but it has been brought 
up to be a very, very useful ( and light) recorder.
You can set many preferences in it.

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_downloads_tools.php

I don't know if it covers all your requirements, but I think it is worth 
a try, at least you will meet a tool that could be useful for other things.

a dear hug,
luca

andy butler wrote:

> Did you try this already?
> use Control Panel>>Sounds and Audio Devices>>Audio
> to make a couple of tracks of the Multiface the Windows Default Device 
> for Recording.
>
> If that doesn't work, download Asio4All,
> configure it provide Asio drivers for the RME
> (then make those default device if needed)
>
> andy butler
>
>
>
>
> Claude Voit wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> with the idea to have a microphone hanging in my guitar teaching 
>> area, I'm desperately searching for a little mp3 recorder (xp) that 
>> could be activated and handled by 3 or four simple key presses.
>> the idea being to record snippets of a guitar lesson that I could 
>> transfer to a students usb flash drive.
>>
>> - must be handled by comp keyboard presses away from screen
>> - save as mp3 44.1 128 k
>> - sequential naming
>> - compatible with RME multiface
>>
>> I've already downloaded and installed several of them without finding 
>> one that sees my multiface (MME/WDM last drivers works fine with 
>> cubase and wavelab)
>>
>>
>> thanks for your help
>>
>> Claude
>>
>>
>
>
> __________ Informazione NOD32 3057 (20080426) __________
>
> Questo messaggio  č stato controllato dal Sistema Antivirus NOD32
> http://www.nod32.it
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 17:55:13 2008
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Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 19:55:09 +0200
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yes I tried to make RME the windows default devices
it even appeared in the setupds of the different progies I tried but no 
sound all setups always referred to the window mixer.... wich is indeed 
not the rme mixer/driver

concerning asio4all I do not understand your point as the MFace _is_ an 
asio interface for all professional application

the problem is probably that those mp3 recorders arent asio but 
"multimedia" according to msoft !!!?

the mface still has standard mme/wdm driver that should work somehow 
?????????

thanks Andy

Claude

andy butler a écrit :
> Did you try this already?
> use Control Panel>>Sounds and Audio Devices>>Audio
> to make a couple of tracks of the Multiface the Windows Default Device 
> for Recording.
> 
> If that doesn't work, download Asio4All,
> configure it provide Asio drivers for the RME
> (then make those default device if needed)
> 
> andy butler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Claude Voit wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> with the idea to have a microphone hanging in my guitar teaching area, 
>> I'm desperately searching for a little mp3 recorder (xp) that could be 
>> activated and handled by 3 or four simple key presses.
>> the idea being to record snippets of a guitar lesson that I could 
>> transfer to a students usb flash drive.
>>
>> - must be handled by comp keyboard presses away from screen
>> - save as mp3 44.1 128 k
>> - sequential naming
>> - compatible with RME multiface
>>
>> I've already downloaded and installed several of them without finding 
>> one that sees my multiface (MME/WDM last drivers works fine with 
>> cubase and wavelab)
>>
>>
>> thanks for your help
>>
>> Claude
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 18:11:05 2008
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Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:10:06 -0700
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Did anyone compile all these names ... it would be interesting to see how
long that list got.





-----Original Message-----
From: bill bigrig [mailto:billbigrig@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 5:16 PM
To: loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: re: favorite loopers a new list

Howdy,

 Back in 74 at the grand opening of a Fred Meyer store
in N.W. Wash state, Bachman-Turner made an
appearance(this was when their debut album "Overdrive"
first came out, after that everyone called them B.T.
Overdrive). At the loading dock, my 18 year old guitar
playing buddy said,"they had an ALLMAN BROTHER'S tape
in the 8 track. If it was me, I'd be listeneing to MY
tape". That's arrogance. He hadn't made one. He's
still playing cover tunes in beer bars. Later, I
became a sound man, bought synths, and started
composing. Yes, I listen to myself. 95% of my
recordings are jams with  1 or 3 others. They give me
inspiration for composing. But if I had just spent
months in the studio working on an album, I'd probably
be ready to listen to someone else. J. Zawinal had a
good point. I listen to myself for the same reason. 
But there are others who would give the same answer
out of sheer vanity.
rig


 
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 18:40:15 2008
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Subject: Boss RC20
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does the RC20 have the same "glitch" as the RC50?

I was going to get an RC50, but now that I know about the problem, I  
am back to the drawing board.  I'm looking at the Jamman and the Rc20  
now, as entry level loopers.  I really like that the Jamman has usb  
and flashcard memory.  But how do you get stuff out of the RC20 if you  
want to?

Michael C.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 18:50:45 2008
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Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 20:49:57 +0200
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I'm really interested in this too.
There are a bunch of software out there that make that job (search for 
"audiovisualizers" on google), but nothing that fit my needs.
Recently i've discovered that MAX is a great tool for transforming sounds 
in immages, but i've not tested it yet.

fabio
www.eterogeneo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 19:04:40 2008
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From: RP Collier <skeptikalist@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Boss RC20
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 12:04:29 -0700
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On Apr 26, 2008, at 11:33 AM, music@carlsonarts.com wrote:
> But how do you get stuff out of the RC20 if you want to?


I usually just run a line from the RC20 Out to my computer inputs and  
record the signal with Wiretap.
Sometimes I use a Zoom recorder and capture direct from an amp  
speaker or again, do a Line In, straight to the Zoom.


regards

BobC







http://cdbaby.com/cd/rpcollier3
http://tinyurl.com/yt8f8j
http://www.youtube.com/tynego

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 19:11:51 2008
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From: "Ricky Graham" <rock.guitar.guru@btinternet.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Sensor technology
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 20:10:51 +0100
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Hi Folks,

I've uploaded a new research video
http://rickygraham.blogspot.com/

Sensors. MSP. Arduino. etc.

Check it. Let me know your thoughts.

Ricky
www.rickygraham.net
www.myspace.com/rickygraham 
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Folks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've uploaded a new research =
video</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://rickygraham.blogspot.com/">http://rickygraham.blogspot.com=
/</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sensors. MSP. Arduino. =
etc.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Check it. Let me know your =
thoughts.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ricky</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.rickygraham.net">www.rickygraham.net</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 19:17:23 2008
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I like to play with Coagula sometimes, 
http://hem.passagen.se/rasmuse/Coagula.htm
this also translates images to sound though not the other way around.

I like your idea, especially if you could show it on a big enough screen as 
you played.

peace,

Jeff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nico Spahni" <nicosp@gmx.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 9:59 AM
Subject: OT: sound to picture metamorphosis


> Lying in the sun, I've been thinking about a sound to picture 
> metamorphosis  - maybe just an early sign of a sunstroke ;-).
>
> Wouldn't it be nice, if some entity (probably in the form of an  ingenious 
> program) could visualize what we play? And I'm not talking  about a 
> notation program or a spectrum analyzer. What I have in mind  is more like 
> a painting that is created in real-time based on what is  played. I know 
> there's software (e.g Metasynth) that does the  opposite, that is images 
> are translated to sound. Any comments on this?
>
> Cheers from Switzerland
>
> Nico
>
> www.myspace.com/nicospahni
> www.recpro.ch
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1398 - Release 
> Date: 4/25/2008 2:31 PM
>
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 19:20:28 2008
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From: Scott Kellogg <bassnut@gmail.com>
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Max/MSP/Jitter?  You need to be a rocket scientist to get much of it  
though.

Scott

On Apr 26, 2008, at 4:17 PM, Jeff Duke wrote:

> I like to play with Coagula sometimes, http://hem.passagen.se/rasmuse/Coagula.htm
> this also translates images to sound though not the other way around.
>
> I like your idea, especially if you could show it on a big enough  
> screen as you played.
>
> peace,
>
> Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nico Spahni" <nicosp@gmx.net>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 9:59 AM
> Subject: OT: sound to picture metamorphosis
>
>
>> Lying in the sun, I've been thinking about a sound to picture  
>> metamorphosis  - maybe just an early sign of a sunstroke ;-).
>>
>> Wouldn't it be nice, if some entity (probably in the form of an   
>> ingenious program) could visualize what we play? And I'm not  
>> talking  about a notation program or a spectrum analyzer. What I  
>> have in mind  is more like a painting that is created in real-time  
>> based on what is  played. I know there's software (e.g Metasynth)  
>> that does the  opposite, that is images are translated to sound.  
>> Any comments on this?
>>
>> Cheers from Switzerland
>>
>> Nico
>>
>> www.myspace.com/nicospahni
>> www.recpro.ch
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1398 -  
>> Release Date: 4/25/2008 2:31 PM
>>
>

--
"Divination is not a method of predicting the future, but a way of  
connecting with higher wisdom and helping one make informed decisions."
- Robert M. Place




From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 19:39:59 2008
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Subject: Re: Chord progressions, Multi Lateral Improvisation (looping) (Miles Davis, Bitches Brew)
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 13:39:56 -0600
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----- Original Message ----- 

>  Back in the days chord progression were looked at as
> "tyrannic" restrictions in improvised music. With the modern looping
> gear this has not to be, since loops can be instantly changed to
> evolve and also "pitched" on-the-fly into any chord progression. In
> essence the "background" chord structure can be instantly improvised
> as well as  melody lines. In my praxis I prefer to call this Multi
> Lateral Improvisation. And I predict a revival for chord analysis
> based improvisation!

Sounds good to me!!

Of course, just a side note, one doesn't need looping technology to do 
chordal improvisation. I do it all of the time, freely contructing complex 
chords or tone clusters on the fly to suit the feel of the moment, etc.

Kris

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 19:54:10 2008
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From: "Per Boysen" <perboysen@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Chord progressions, Multi Lateral Improvisation (looping) (Miles Davis, Bitches Brew)
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>  ----- Original Message -----
>
> >  Back in the days chord progression were looked at as
> > "tyrannic" restrictions in improvised music. With the modern looping
> > gear this has not to be, since loops can be instantly changed to
> > evolve and also "pitched" on-the-fly into any chord progression. In
> > essence the "background" chord structure can be instantly improvised
> > as well as  melody lines. In my praxis I prefer to call this Multi
> > Lateral Improvisation. And I predict a revival for chord analysis
> > based improvisation!
> >
>
>  Sounds good to me!!
>
>  Of course, just a side note, one doesn't need looping technology to do
> chordal improvisation. I do it all of the time, freely contructing comple=
x
> chords or tone clusters on the fly to suit the feel of the moment, etc.
>
>  Kris


Sure. But improvising both chords and melody simultaneously is what
makes it most interesting. Of course that is traditionally possible
with polyphonic instruments as in jazz piano =E1 la Jarret or Kessel
style guitar, but doing it with one voice instruments is where looping
comes in pretty handy.

LOL, Kris - I KNEW you should respond to this post! ;-)   Got Max5
yet, eh? ;-))))D

Per

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 20:59:21 2008
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Subject: Re: Chord progressions, Multi Lateral Improvisation (looping) (Miles Davis, Bitches Brew)
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Original Message -----
>  Sounds good to me!!
>
>  Of course, just a side note, one doesn't need looping technology to do
> chordal improvisation. I do it all of the time, freely contructing complex
> chords or tone clusters on the fly to suit the feel of the moment, etc.
>
>  Kris

Sure. But improvising both chords and melody simultaneously is what
makes it most interesting. Of course that is traditionally possible
with polyphonic instruments as in jazz piano á la Jarret or Kessel
style guitar, but doing it with one voice instruments is where looping
comes in pretty handy.

LOL, Kris - I KNEW you should respond to this post! ;-)   Got Max5
yet, eh? ;-))))D

K: Yes, I am getting predictable these days. Darn. I'll have to work on 
that. And yes, you are right, my comment was more appropraite for polyphonic 
instruments, and more specifically polyphonic instrument players who play 
their instruments that way - piano, several jazz guitar players, etc. I 
think improvising chords and melody at the same time on the gutiar is not as 
hard as it seems. It is REALLY hard when playing jazz standards and you have 
to improvise that way within an idiom, but when freely playing I find it 
much easier to improvise chordally and integrate an improvised melody at the 
same time.  It seems more natural than having to do it inside a framework, 
which is why I'll never be a Joe Pass soloist.  That style of playing just 
blows me away...amazing.  One could argue that even my seemingly parallel 
chordal and melodic improvisation is really just sequential chordal and 
sequential melodic improvisation, but switching back so fast that it sounds 
they are in parallel. It's like the difference between true multithreading 
processing on computes and processors that do multi-tasking but on the same 
thread. They have the speed and efficiency to go back and forth between two 
tasks very quickly so that the end result is the appearance of true parallel 
multi-tasking. I think many peoplel who multitask well are probably doing 
something similar.

I have not got Max 5 yet, and will probably wait to see how users report 
back on it after a year or so. Right now I am using only my customized 
KaiserLooper in Max, plus my reverb and basic delay objects...nothing else. 
So there won't be much immediate advantage in me moving to the new version. 
I have taken a break from the effect building and focusing more on playing 
and recording now.

Kris


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 21:40:22 2008
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Subject: Re: Electribe
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 23:40:10 +0200
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if you're talking the greenish sampler-electribe:
why wouldya wanna use that...?
i remember painful programming, horrible sound.
- nice little lightshow though...

best - tilmann

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shayne Cafferata" <scafferata@sasktel.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 8:37 AM
Subject: WTB: Electribe


> anyone here have an electribe they'd like to sell?
> 
> shayne
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Apr 26 23:41:25 2008
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Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 19:41:22 -0400
From: "Dennis Moser" <sinsofmachaut@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: sound to picture metamorphosis
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You might take a look at Audicle, http://audicle.cs.princeton.edu/

Dennis

On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 3:20 PM, Scott Kellogg <bassnut@gmail.com> wrote:
> Max/MSP/Jitter?  You need to be a rocket scientist to get much of it though.
>
>  Scott
>
>
>
>  On Apr 26, 2008, at 4:17 PM, Jeff Duke wrote:
>
>
> > I like to play with Coagula sometimes,
> http://hem.passagen.se/rasmuse/Coagula.htm
> > this also translates images to sound though not the other way around.
> >
> > I like your idea, especially if you could show it on a big enough screen
> as you played.
> >
> > peace,
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nico Spahni" <nicosp@gmx.net>
> > To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 9:59 AM
> > Subject: OT: sound to picture metamorphosis
> >
> >
> >
> > > Lying in the sun, I've been thinking about a sound to picture
> metamorphosis  - maybe just an early sign of a sunstroke ;-).
> > >
> > > Wouldn't it be nice, if some entity (probably in the form of an
> ingenious program) could visualize what we play? And I'm not talking  about
> a notation program or a spectrum analyzer. What I have in mind  is more like
> a painting that is created in real-time based on what is  played. I know
> there's software (e.g Metasynth) that does the  opposite, that is images are
> translated to sound. Any comments on this?
> > >
> > > Cheers from Switzerland
> > >
> > > Nico
> > >
> > > www.myspace.com/nicospahni
> > > www.recpro.ch
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1398 -
> Release Date: 4/25/2008 2:31 PM
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>  --
>  "Divination is not a method of predicting the future, but a way of
> connecting with higher wisdom and helping one make informed decisions."
>  - Robert M. Place
>
>
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 27 03:06:26 2008
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don't know if this is what you're talking about, but i'm very  
interested in and have been researching (for use in my own  
performances) both old school "visual music" (i.e. from the futurists  
before WWI) and contemporary sound-responsive, generative-imagery  
done with computers...

here are a few links to artists and sites i'm aware of in this field.  
not comprehensive by any means! i'd like to know of others...

- marius watz, and artist who creates sound-responsive visual images:
http://www.unlekker.net/

- a group called "messa voce".
they sing and create a live painting on the screen behind them
hard to describe, just watch a video on you tube and you'll get it!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5qKkJRmlQg&feature=related

- maura mcdonal's visual music blog which follows what folks are up to:
http://visualmusic.blogspot.com/

- generator x, another blog or portal of sorts with a focus on  
generative art, have a music section
http://www.generatorx.no/category/sound-works/

- this guy i stumbled across, benedikt grob. amazing work. watch the  
first vido on his site:
http://www.looksgood.de/log/2007/02/03/seelenlose-automaten/

- the center for visual music
http://www.centerforvisualmusic.org


On Apr 26, 2008, at 7:59 AM, Nico Spahni wrote:

> Lying in the sun, I've been thinking about a sound to picture  
> metamorphosis  - maybe just an early sign of a sunstroke ;-).
>
> Wouldn't it be nice, if some entity (probably in the form of an  
> ingenious program) could visualize what we play? And I'm not  
> talking about a notation program or a spectrum analyzer. What I  
> have in mind is more like a painting that is created in real-time  
> based on what is played. I know there's software (e.g Metasynth)  
> that does the opposite, that is images are translated to sound. Any  
> comments on this?
>
> Cheers from Switzerland
>
> Nico
>
> www.myspace.com/nicospahni
> www.recpro.ch
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 27 04:11:20 2008
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Subject: RE: OT: sound to picture metamorphosis
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 21:11:20 -0700
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Hi Zoe,
Thanks for these links!!    the Nedwave (Vizzy) visualizations are beautiful
and just the kind of thing I'm seeking.
http://www.youtube.com/user/nedwaves

I hope that Nedwave or other artists will offer something that can be
purchased and run as a background to audio input.  

Qua


-----Original Message-----
From: info at zoekeating [mailto:info@zoekeating.com] 
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 7:53 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: OT: sound to picture metamorphosis

don't know if this is what you're talking about, but i'm very  
interested in and have been researching (for use in my own  
performances) both old school "visual music" (i.e. from the futurists  
before WWI) and contemporary sound-responsive, generative-imagery  
done with computers...

here are a few links to artists and sites i'm aware of in this field.  
not comprehensive by any means! i'd like to know of others...

- marius watz, and artist who creates sound-responsive visual images:
http://www.unlekker.net/

- a group called "messa voce".
they sing and create a live painting on the screen behind them
hard to describe, just watch a video on you tube and you'll get it!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5qKkJRmlQg&feature=related

- maura mcdonal's visual music blog which follows what folks are up to:
http://visualmusic.blogspot.com/

- generator x, another blog or portal of sorts with a focus on  
generative art, have a music section
http://www.generatorx.no/category/sound-works/

- this guy i stumbled across, benedikt grob. amazing work. watch the  
first vido on his site:
http://www.looksgood.de/log/2007/02/03/seelenlose-automaten/

- the center for visual music
http://www.centerforvisualmusic.org


On Apr 26, 2008, at 7:59 AM, Nico Spahni wrote:

> Lying in the sun, I've been thinking about a sound to picture  
> metamorphosis  - maybe just an early sign of a sunstroke ;-).
>
> Wouldn't it be nice, if some entity (probably in the form of an  
> ingenious program) could visualize what we play? And I'm not  
> talking about a notation program or a spectrum analyzer. What I  
> have in mind is more like a painting that is created in real-time  
> based on what is played. I know there's software (e.g Metasynth)  
> that does the opposite, that is images are translated to sound. Any  
> comments on this?
>
> Cheers from Switzerland
>
> Nico
>
> www.myspace.com/nicospahni
> www.recpro.ch
>
>

From info@shelbysavingsbank.com  Sun Apr 27 04:46:23 2008
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 27 05:55:39 2008
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incredible-
thankyou for taking the time to share=20
=20
-fro
> From: qua@oregon.com> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com> Subject: R=
E: OT: sound to picture metamorphosis> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 21:11:20 -070=
0> > Hi Zoe,> Thanks for these links!! the Nedwave (Vizzy) visualizations a=
re beautiful> and just the kind of thing I'm seeking.> http://www.youtube.c=
om/user/nedwaves> > I hope that Nedwave or other artists will offer somethi=
ng that can be> purchased and run as a background to audio input. > > Qua> =
> > -----Original Message-----> From: info at zoekeating [mailto:info@zoeke=
ating.com] > Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 7:53 PM> To: Loopers-Delight@lo=
opers-delight.com> Subject: Re: OT: sound to picture metamorphosis> > don't=
 know if this is what you're talking about, but i'm very > interested in an=
d have been researching (for use in my own > performances) both old school =
"visual music" (i.e. from the futurists > before WWI) and contemporary soun=
d-responsive, generative-imagery > done with computers...> > here are a few=
 links to artists and sites i'm aware of in this field. > not comprehensive=
 by any means! i'd like to know of others...> > - marius watz, and artist w=
ho creates sound-responsive visual images:> http://www.unlekker.net/> > - a=
 group called "messa voce".> they sing and create a live painting on the sc=
reen behind them> hard to describe, just watch a video on you tube and you'=
ll get it!!> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dk5qKkJRmlQg&feature=3Drelated=
> > - maura mcdonal's visual music blog which follows what folks are up to:=
> http://visualmusic.blogspot.com/> > - generator x, another blog or portal=
 of sorts with a focus on > generative art, have a music section> http://ww=
w.generatorx.no/category/sound-works/> > - this guy i stumbled across, bene=
dikt grob. amazing work. watch the > first vido on his site:> http://www.lo=
oksgood.de/log/2007/02/03/seelenlose-automaten/> > - the center for visual =
music> http://www.centerforvisualmusic.org> > > On Apr 26, 2008, at 7:59 AM=
, Nico Spahni wrote:> > > Lying in the sun, I've been thinking about a soun=
d to picture > > metamorphosis - maybe just an early sign of a sunstroke ;-=
).> >> > Wouldn't it be nice, if some entity (probably in the form of an > =
> ingenious program) could visualize what we play? And I'm not > > talking =
about a notation program or a spectrum analyzer. What I > > have in mind is=
 more like a painting that is created in real-time > > based on what is pla=
yed. I know there's software (e.g Metasynth) > > that does the opposite, th=
at is images are translated to sound. Any > > comments on this?> >> > Cheer=
s from Switzerland> >> > Nico> >> > www.myspace.com/nicospahni> > www.recpr=
o.ch> >> >>=20
_________________________________________________________________
Back to work after baby=96how do you know when you=92re ready?
http://lifestyle.msn.com/familyandparenting/articleNW.aspx?cp-documentid=3D=
5797498&ocid=3DT067MSN40A0701A=

--_a58cdffa-449c-4e04-b9c3-332cfdf16621_
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<html>
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<body class=3D'hmmessage'>
incredible-<BR>
thankyou for taking the time to share <BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
-fro<BR>
<BR>&gt; From: qua@oregon.com<BR>&gt; To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.c=
om<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: OT: sound to picture metamorphosis<BR>&gt; Date: Sa=
t, 26 Apr 2008 21:11:20 -0700<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hi Zoe,<BR>&gt; Thanks for t=
hese links!! the Nedwave (Vizzy) visualizations are beautiful<BR>&gt; and j=
ust the kind of thing I'm seeking.<BR>&gt; http://www.youtube.com/user/nedw=
aves<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I hope that Nedwave or other artists will offer somet=
hing that can be<BR>&gt; purchased and run as a background to audio input. =
<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Qua<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<=
BR>&gt; From: info at zoekeating [mailto:info@zoekeating.com] <BR>&gt; Sent=
: Saturday, April 26, 2008 7:53 PM<BR>&gt; To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-deli=
ght.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: OT: sound to picture metamorphosis<BR>&gt; <BR=
>&gt; don't know if this is what you're talking about, but i'm very <BR>&gt=
; interested in and have been researching (for use in my own <BR>&gt; perfo=
rmances) both old school "visual music" (i.e. from the futurists <BR>&gt; b=
efore WWI) and contemporary sound-responsive, generative-imagery <BR>&gt; d=
one with computers...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; here are a few links to artists and =
sites i'm aware of in this field. <BR>&gt; not comprehensive by any means! =
i'd like to know of others...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; - marius watz, and artist wh=
o creates sound-responsive visual images:<BR>&gt; http://www.unlekker.net/<=
BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; - a group called "messa voce".<BR>&gt; they sing and creat=
e a live painting on the screen behind them<BR>&gt; hard to describe, just =
watch a video on you tube and you'll get it!!<BR>&gt; http://www.youtube.co=
m/watch?v=3Dk5qKkJRmlQg&amp;feature=3Drelated<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; - maura mcdo=
nal's visual music blog which follows what folks are up to:<BR>&gt; http://=
visualmusic.blogspot.com/<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; - generator x, another blog or p=
ortal of sorts with a focus on <BR>&gt; generative art, have a music sectio=
n<BR>&gt; http://www.generatorx.no/category/sound-works/<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -=
 this guy i stumbled across, benedikt grob. amazing work. watch the <BR>&gt=
; first vido on his site:<BR>&gt; http://www.looksgood.de/log/2007/02/03/se=
elenlose-automaten/<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; - the center for visual music<BR>&gt; =
http://www.centerforvisualmusic.org<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On Apr 26, 20=
08, at 7:59 AM, Nico Spahni wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Lying in the sun, =
I've been thinking about a sound to picture <BR>&gt; &gt; metamorphosis - m=
aybe just an early sign of a sunstroke ;-).<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Would=
n't it be nice, if some entity (probably in the form of an <BR>&gt; &gt; in=
genious program) could visualize what we play? And I'm not <BR>&gt; &gt; ta=
lking about a notation program or a spectrum analyzer. What I <BR>&gt; &gt;=
 have in mind is more like a painting that is created in real-time <BR>&gt;=
 &gt; based on what is played. I know there's software (e.g Metasynth) <BR>=
&gt; &gt; that does the opposite, that is images are translated to sound. A=
ny <BR>&gt; &gt; comments on this?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Cheers from Sw=
itzerland<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Nico<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; www.mysp=
ace.com/nicospahni<BR>&gt; &gt; www.recpro.ch<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>=
&gt; <BR><BR><br /><hr />Back to work after baby=96 <a href=3D'http://lifes=
tyle.msn.com/familyandparenting/articleNW.aspx?cp-documentid=3D5797498&ocid=
=3DT067MSN40A0701A' target=3D'_new'>how do you know when you=92re ready?</a=
></body>
</html>=

--_a58cdffa-449c-4e04-b9c3-332cfdf16621_--

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Sorry to be a pest - does anyone here have experience with the  
Digitech GNX4 (or 3)? 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 27 06:49:34 2008
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From: Nico Spahni <nicosp@gmx.net>
Subject: Re: OT: sound to picture metamorphosis
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Am 27.04.2008 um 04:52 schrieb info at zoekeating:
>
>
> - a group called "messa voce".
> they sing and create a live painting on the screen behind them
> hard to describe, just watch a video on you tube and you'll get it!!
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5qKkJRmlQg&feature=related
>

Wow, that's just so beautiful! Does anyone have more info about  
what's involved technology-wise? It seems that they make use of some  
kind of movement tracking and voice recognition.

Nico
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
<br><div><div>Am 27.04.2008 um 04:52 schrieb info at =
zoekeating:</div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#000000"><br></font><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">- a =
group called "messa voce".</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">they sing and =
create a live painting on the screen behind them</div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">hard to describe, just watch a video on you tube and =
you'll get it!!</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a =
href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dk5qKkJRmlQg&amp;feature=3Drelated=
">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dk5qKkJRmlQg&amp;feature=3Drelated</a></=
div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
"><br></div></blockquote><br></div><div>Wow, that's just so beautiful! =
Does anyone have more info about what's involved technology-wise? It =
seems that they make use of some kind of movement tracking and voice =
recognition.</div><div><br></div><div>Nico</div></body></html>=

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Per wrote:
"With the modern looping
gear this has not to be, since loops can be instantly changed to
evolve and also "pitched" on-the-fly into any chord progression. In
essence the "background" chord structure can be instantly improvised
as well as  melody lines."

I've thought about this a lot in my own music, too, Per.
The reason why modality is a good analogy to repitching melodic loops on the
fly is that the intervallic relationships between the notes of the loop
still remain identical when we pitch a loop differently  (of course, this 
can
change to with the judicious use of pitch shifting on just parts of the
loop as one copies it to a new loop..........but, still it's very difficult 
to pull off.

This produces a kind of 'virtual' modality if you don't mind the term.
In other words,  you are left with a new harmony (or implied harmonic 
relationship
to the original loop).    Every note in the loop pitches to the same 
intervallic modulation
which ,  of course, will cause new dissonances to occur as a matter of 
course.

This can produce really interesting results,  resulting in suspended 
harmonies or chordal alterations.
But there is still a kind of stasis about it...............albeit a more 
complex stasis, because
the relationship of the new loop to the original loop is parallel, 
harmonically, even if it forces a new
harmony by the juxtaposition.   Does this make sense?

I like it personally,  and , to be truthful,  it's forcing me to learn a lot 
more about complex
modern theory than I knew before I first started looping bass lines and 
percussion in my early days.


Per wrote:
"In my praxis I prefer to call this Multi
Lateral Improvisation. And I predict a revival for chord analysis
based improvisation!"

Yes!!!!   Exactly.

You know,  this same thing is happening with a new instrument that I"m in 
love with:

  I signed an endorsment with a company that makes a very simple instrument 
called a strumstick.
It is like a skinny walking dulcimer with only three strings and an Ionian 
intevallic setup that allows for
either a flat 7 or a natural 7.

This instrument was designed to allow anyone to play simple diatonic major 
scale songs around a campfire without
knowing anything about scales, really.    You just strum and play melodies 
on the upper string where there are no 'wrong'  notes.

I'm loving this limitation because if I force the instrument into a I,  V, 
ii    tuning
then my upper string is constrained to a Lydian scale  with really nice  9th 
chords (that are ambiguous because they have no 3rd in them)

I've been trying out different capo settings on each of them with I, V, I 
tunings (all the greek modes)      I, V, ii          I,  V,  bvii
etc. and it forces all these beautiful (and frequently suspended or 
dissonant)  triadic chord progressions.

It's just soo fun and cool sounding.       I have three diatonic ones in 
different tunings and I just got a large chromatic one so I can play
anything on it  (especially with a pinky slide on the upper string).

What's wonderful about it, is that I can hear things I really love for 
composition.................and then I analyze them after the fact, so
my harmonic knowledge is expanding rapidly.....................and yet, they 
are as minimal as minimal can be.................my idea of
a multi-instrumentlists'  good time...............lol 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 27 06:57:44 2008
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Subject: Re: favorite loopers a new list
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 Aaron Leese wrote:

"Did anyone compile all these names ... it would be interesting to see how
 long that list got."


No.

I compiled the last one, but I'm swamped preparing to go on tour for two 
months so I'm short on time.

How about it, Aaron?

<hint, hint>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 27 07:48:06 2008
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From: rune fagereng <rune_fagereng@yahoo.no>
Reply-To: rune_fagereng@yahoo.no
Subject: Re: Looping philosophy
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Hi !

I anyone has a pdf of this - I would like a copy.

Rune F.


--- Den l=F8r 2008-04-26 skrev Byron Howell <howell.byron@gmail.com>:

> Fra: Byron Howell <howell.byron@gmail.com>
> Emne: Looping philosophy
> Til: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Dato: L=F8rdag 26. april 2008 18.11
> I found a very old thread in the archives and someone posted
> who was
> exploring music perceptions and was possibly doing a PHD
> asking the
> question "Why do we loop"
>=20
> His masters thesis was entitled  "A Connection Between
> Schenkerian Analysis and Godel's Theorem: The Urlinie
> as Formally
> Undecidable." I am fascinated by musical perception,
> and this notion of
> 'why we Loop" is no less intriguing.
>=20
> Ive had a look around and cant find the thesis and the
> email address is outdated
>=20
> anyone know where I might find a copy of the thesis
> (I'm hoping
> perhaps the author is still a list member)
>=20
> Any other research anyone knows about along these lines
> would be most helpfull?
>=20
> Byron=0A=0A=0A      _____________________________________________________=
____=0AAlt i ett. F=E5 Yahoo! Mail med adressekartotek, kalender og=0Anotis=
blokk. http://no.mail.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 27 09:24:50 2008
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Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 11:24:44 +0200
From: Claude Voit <c.voit@vtx.ch>
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 Davis, Bitches Brew)
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Not bad for a drummer !!

respect

:=) :=):=) :=):=) :=):=) :=):=) :=):=) :=):=) :=)

Claude

Rick Walker a écrit :
> Per wrote:
> "With the modern looping
> gear this has not to be, since loops can be instantly changed to
> evolve and also "pitched" on-the-fly into any chord progression. In
> essence the "background" chord structure can be instantly improvised
> as well as  melody lines."
> 
> I've thought about this a lot in my own music, too, Per.
> The reason why modality is a good analogy to repitching melodic loops on 
> the
> fly is that the intervallic relationships between the notes of the loop
> still remain identical when we pitch a loop differently  (of course, 
> this can
> change to with the judicious use of pitch shifting on just parts of the
> loop as one copies it to a new loop..........but, still it's very 
> difficult to pull off.
> 
> This produces a kind of 'virtual' modality if you don't mind the term.
> In other words,  you are left with a new harmony (or implied harmonic 
> relationship
> to the original loop).    Every note in the loop pitches to the same 
> intervallic modulation
> which ,  of course, will cause new dissonances to occur as a matter of 
> course.
> 
> This can produce really interesting results,  resulting in suspended 
> harmonies or chordal alterations.
> But there is still a kind of stasis about it...............albeit a more 
> complex stasis, because
> the relationship of the new loop to the original loop is parallel, 
> harmonically, even if it forces a new
> harmony by the juxtaposition.   Does this make sense?
> 
> I like it personally,  and , to be truthful,  it's forcing me to learn a 
> lot more about complex
> modern theory than I knew before I first started looping bass lines and 
> percussion in my early days.
> 
> 
> Per wrote:
> "In my praxis I prefer to call this Multi
> Lateral Improvisation. And I predict a revival for chord analysis
> based improvisation!"
> 
> Yes!!!!   Exactly.
> 
> You know,  this same thing is happening with a new instrument that I"m 
> in love with:
> 
>  I signed an endorsment with a company that makes a very simple 
> instrument called a strumstick.
> It is like a skinny walking dulcimer with only three strings and an 
> Ionian intevallic setup that allows for
> either a flat 7 or a natural 7.
> 
> This instrument was designed to allow anyone to play simple diatonic 
> major scale songs around a campfire without
> knowing anything about scales, really.    You just strum and play 
> melodies on the upper string where there are no 'wrong'  notes.
> 
> I'm loving this limitation because if I force the instrument into a I,  
> V, ii    tuning
> then my upper string is constrained to a Lydian scale  with really nice  
> 9th chords (that are ambiguous because they have no 3rd in them)
> 
> I've been trying out different capo settings on each of them with I, V, 
> I tunings (all the greek modes)      I, V, ii          I,  V,  bvii
> etc. and it forces all these beautiful (and frequently suspended or 
> dissonant)  triadic chord progressions.
> 
> It's just soo fun and cool sounding.       I have three diatonic ones in 
> different tunings and I just got a large chromatic one so I can play
> anything on it  (especially with a pinky slide on the upper string).
> 
> What's wonderful about it, is that I can hear things I really love for 
> composition.................and then I analyze them after the fact, so
> my harmonic knowledge is expanding rapidly.....................and yet, 
> they are as minimal as minimal can be.................my idea of
> a multi-instrumentlists'  good time...............lol
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 27 12:38:47 2008
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Fabio wrote:


> I'm really interested in this too.
> There are a bunch of software out there that make that job (search for
> "audiovisualizers" on google), but nothing that fit my needs.

There is a wonderful program for Mac OS X  called Meta Synth
and another freeware program for WIN XP or VISTA called Coagula
(designed by the wonderful inventor of Granulab............a very hip , 
standalone
granular synthesis program that our own Michael Peters has used
very effectively in some of his music)

You can get it both for free  from http://hem.passagen.se/rasmuse/Granny.htm


> Recently i've discovered that MAX is a great tool for transforming sounds
> in immages, but i've not tested it yet.

Yes,  Fabio,   also,  JITTER (also by Cycling 74 who bring you Max/MSP
which just released the brand new 5.0 version this past week)  does
wonderful real time video manipulations.

Additionally,  there are sound programs that allow one to open visual 
imagery
as raw data files, in them.  I believe Adobe Audition (formerly Cool Edit 
Pro)
allows for this.   A little research on the web should yield these things
of, better yet,   why don't you make a post at my
AudioPluginJunkiesAnnonymous tribe at www.tribe.net.

I think,  (and please correct me if I'm wrong) but we may be the 2nd largest 
online group  for
freeware plugins on the web outside of the vastly larger KVR.com

the cool thing is that with several hundered audio plugin junkies in the 
tribe..............one needs to merely
ask a question about a particular style of plugin and experts and junkies 
from all over the world
will respond with ways to find these things (and frequently in either 
freeware or inexpensive shareware
versions).

Something like Granulab, as an instance,  is a freeware program but if you 
pay $25  you get a much more sophisticated
version of the program that is a mind boggling steal of a deal for such a 
low price.

good luck........................see you very soon in Koln and Berlin ,  my 
dear friend!

yours, Rick

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 27 13:56:38 2008
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Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 06:56:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: want to see the best conga player in the world?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGWu144pQZo&feature=email
cheers
Luis

www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 27 14:20:12 2008
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Hehehe ... no.

Swamped myself .... post the last one if you get the chance though.



-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Walker [mailto:looppool@cruzio.com] 
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 11:58 PM
To: Aaron Leese; LOOPERS DELIGHT (posting)
Subject: Re: favorite loopers a new list


 Aaron Leese wrote:

"Did anyone compile all these names ... it would be interesting to see how
 long that list got."


No.

I compiled the last one, but I'm swamped preparing to go on tour for two 
months so I'm short on time.

How about it, Aaron?

<hint, hint>

-- 
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.16.4/1146 - Release Date: 11/22/2007
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> Additionally,  there are sound programs that allow one to open visual imagery
> as raw data files, in them.  I believe Adobe Audition (formerly Cool Edit 
> Pro) allows for this.

The free app Audacity (OS X, Windows, Linux/UNIX) allows you to open any 
file and treat it as a sound file (Project menu> Open Raw Data, wide 
variety of parameters you can choose to import the data through).

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

I used this feature last year working with a painter for a gallery 
opening to convert JPGs of his new paintings into sound snippets that I 
looped with Sooperlooper for the evening's music. Recently I have been 
working with changing the beat patterns from a text file by editing the 
text with tabs and line breaks as a kind of graphic score.

Steve B  Subscape Annex http://www.subscapeannex.com/

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 27 16:26:25 2008
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From: Sunao Inami <webmaster@cavestudio.com>
Subject: OT: New Release "V.A / Ressonus net vol.1 "
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Hi LD,

Sorry for off topic.
my new release information.

"V.A / Ressonus net vol.1"
http://shop.cavestudio.org/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/537

A collection of twelve exclusive tracks from twelve 
artists/projects/bands of various parts of the world. Twelve sights 
into the contemporary ambient and experimental electronic music 
across the continents. Twelve different inner worlds meet in the 
unique balanced totality.

OUT NOW on Ressonus Records (Czech Republic)

www.ressonus.net

Tracklist:
01. SUNAO INAMI - FISH PRINT [JP]
02. FARMACIA - SABANAS (LIVE ONLY FOR US) [AR]
03. METHEORA - IN THE SHELL [CZ]
04. STRANGELET - STATION [CZ]
05. ALESSANDRO FIORIN DAMIANI - RADIOISPIRAZIONE I [IT]
06. KORA ET LE MECHANIX - INTERIEUR [CZ]
07. MARK TAMEA - THE ORGEO CRUX [NL]
08. SELECTONE - AMOR FATI [CZ]
09. EMDY - MIRROR [GR]
10. LANDSCHAFT - THE TRUE PATH [UK]
11. STUZHA - HERE IS NO LIFE WITHOUT A FIRE [RU]
12. GURUN GURUN - 3x3x3 (LIVE) [CZ]

Genre: ambient-glitch-experimental electronic music

more info:
Ressonus Records
http://www.ressonus.net/

  Thanks

  Sunao Inami
http://www.myspace.com/sunao

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 27 17:53:04 2008
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Hi there Michael,
The RC-20 does not have the glitch. I tried the Jamman out, and it seems
good only if you're looking to use a looper a playback system, rather than
interactive looping. The Jamman doesn't have any reverse function. Just lots
and lots of space.

Before you cross the RC-50 off your list, attempt to try one out if you can.
If you live near a Guitar Center, give it a go. The glitch doesn't seem to
bother everybody. Plus, even with all its faults, the RC-50 has a three
independent loops, with reverse, and volume control, etc.

-Patrick

On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 2:33 PM, <music@carlsonarts.com> wrote:

> does the RC20 have the same "glitch" as the RC50?
>
> I was going to get an RC50, but now that I know about the problem, I am
> back to the drawing board.  I'm looking at the Jamman and the Rc20 now, as
> entry level loopers.  I really like that the Jamman has usb and flashcard
> memory.  But how do you get stuff out of the RC20 if you want to?
>
> Michael C.
>
>

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<br>Hi there Michael,<br>The RC-20 does not have the glitch. I tried the Jamman out, and it seems good only if you&#39;re looking to use a looper a playback system, rather than interactive looping. The Jamman doesn&#39;t have any reverse function. Just lots and lots of space.<br>
<br>Before you cross the RC-50 off your list, attempt to try one out if you can. If you live near a Guitar Center, give it a go. The glitch doesn&#39;t seem to bother everybody. Plus, even with all its faults, the RC-50 has a three independent loops, with reverse, and volume control, etc. <br>
<br>-Patrick<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 2:33 PM,  &lt;<a href="mailto:music@carlsonarts.com">music@carlsonarts.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
does the RC20 have the same &quot;glitch&quot; as the RC50?<br>
<br>
I was going to get an RC50, but now that I know about the problem, I am back to the drawing board. &nbsp;I&#39;m looking at the Jamman and the Rc20 now, as entry level loopers. &nbsp;I really like that the Jamman has usb and flashcard memory. &nbsp;But how do you get stuff out of the RC20 if you want to?<br>

<br>
Michael C.<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br>

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Ok, I've been diggin in the manuals and the archive so apologies up front if I've missed this somewhere 
in a previous thread.

Is it possible now w/ LOOP IV to enter the edit/preset mode w/ the foot controller?
I specifically remember reading that this was not possible on the Loopers-Delight website.
But I think that was an older article....

The reason I'm asking is that Ihave entered the edit mode w/ the foot controller - and I don't know how
I did it.  Maybe some glitch? I was busy lost in my loop composition at the time and must hit the wrong thing.
But, sure enough when I looked up at the 'plex I was in edit mode.

Any thoughts?

tx,
nd



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">Ok, I've been diggin in the manuals and the archive so apologies up front if I've missed this somewhere <br>in a previous thread.<br><br>Is it possible now w/ LOOP IV to enter the edit/preset mode w/ the foot controller?<br>I specifically remember reading that this was not possible on the Loopers-Delight website.<br>But I think that was an older article....<br><br>The reason I'm asking is that I<span style="font-style: italic;"> have entered the edit mode w/ the foot controller -</span> and I don't know how<br>I did it.&nbsp; Maybe some glitch? I was busy lost in my loop composition at the time and must hit the wrong thing.<br>But, sure enough when I looked up at the 'plex I was in edit mode.<br><br>Any thoughts?<br><br>tx,<br>nd<br></div><br>



      <hr size=1>Be a better friend, newshound, and 
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 27 20:53:54 2008
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From: "Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill" <rs@moinlabs.de>
To: "LD List" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: kbyermusik - call for performers: BEMF3 (May 31st), Finloop (May 22nd)
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 22:53:59 +0200
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Hi everyone,

it's time again: this is the official call for "virtual performers" for the
kybermusik events as part of Finloop (May 22nd) and Boise Experimental Music
Festival III (May 31st).

A. DESCRIPTION:
---------------
kybermusik is the concept of two or more musicians playing together in
nearly real-time over an internet link. This works using a free software
called NinJam (www.ninjam.org), available for PC, Mac and Linux machines:
By rounding up the latency of the network connection to a "musically
meaningful" amount (e.g. four bars), you can play rhythmically in sync even
over a connection with latency.

Kybermusik's history started back in 2005 with a few first experimental runs
together with our own Krispen Hartung. The first virtual concert with one
player in front of a live audience took place April 30th of 2006, Y2K6
Loopfest saw the "biggest of its kind" kybermusik event yet.
Apart from that, several projects have come of this idea, including Daryl
Shawn/Jim Gooding and their www.chinapaintingmusic.com project (they met at
the loopfest kybermusik session) and my collaborative "Quelques Papiers
D'Abord" album (http://www.jamendo.com/en/album/7494/, free download).

There will be

B. TERMINOLOGY:
---------------
Followingly, "live performers" are the performers in front of the live
audience (i.e. either Finloop or BEMF). "Virtual performers" are the people
who are linked via the internet to the session.

C. TECH RIDER:
--------------
So what do you need to do kybermusik?
You need a mediocre computer (see www.ninjam.com for recommendations) with
the operating system of your choice: Windows 2k or later, OS X, Linux.
An audio interface connected to and working on that computer which allows
you to connect your instruments and monitors to it (normally, every audio
interface should work, although the ones with native ASIO support are
preferrable).
A way to get your playing into the audio interface.
Access to a chat service (ICQ, Yahoo Messenger, MSN) is not strictly
required but may be helpful.
An internet connection with low to mediocre bandwidth (128kbps outbound and
512kbps inbound are sufficient).

Testing It:
There are test servers at http://www.ninjam.com/jamfarm/index.php. The best
way to test your installation is to connect to these servers using the
Ninjam Client (you only need the client, not the server!) and see if it
works.

D. EVENTS:
----------
1. Finloop: http://www.alp.fi/finloop.html
Thursday May 22nd 2008, 19:00-21:00 local time (1600-1800 UTC)
Venue: Espoon kulttuurikeskuksen Louhi-Sali

This is a live looping festival, featuring among others our own Rick Walker
and Per Boysen. Expect the music to be loop-heavy (although it is not
required for the virtual performers to actually do looping themselves).

2. Boise Experimental Music Festival III:
http://www.boisemusicians.com/BEMF-3/
Saturday May 31st, 13:00-19:00 local time (1900-0100+ UTC)
Venue: The Record Exchange, Boise

As the name implies, an experimental music festival - not necessarily
looping, but it may happen and is not looked down upon. Playing in major or
minor scales or using II-V-I or IV-V-I chord progressions is. ;)


E. APPLICATION PROCESS:
-----------------------
Due to the fact that the performance events are approaching rapidly, I'd
like to ask applicants to apply NO LATER THAN May 4th (next Sunday). This
application must contain:
	* link to your website
	* short bio/description of act (may be contained on website)
	* music samples (may be contained on website)
	* which event you'd like to play ("both" is possible as an answer)
	* for which time slots you'd be available (always state time as UTC.
Use www.timezoneconverter.com if and when in doubt)
	* a confirmation that you have succesfully tested the Ninjam
software in your setup as described in (C)

If you know of a "live performer" with whom you'd like to play together,
please do also state this preference.

Following that, I'll contact you in CW19 to assign a slot to you and also
tell you with whom you'll be paired (or trio'd) with.

Note that applications coming in late will only be considered if there are
still slots available!


So...thanks for your interest - and I'm gingerly waiting for your
applications.

Best,

	Rainer

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Apr 27 21:04:45 2008
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Subject: kbyermusik - call for performers: BEMF3 (May 31st), Finloop (May 22nd) - post scriptum
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Please feel free to forward the message I just sent with the call to
performers to any individuals or forums which might be interested
(generally, forums which deal with loops, internet musicmaking, experimental
music or individuals who you think might like it).

Thanks a lot!

	Rainer

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  mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:around;
  mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:page;
  mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><b
  style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:
  Verdana;color:#D4001A'>Your Online Banking is Blocked </span></b><span
  style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#D4001A'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
  <pre style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:
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  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'>Online Banking:<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:
  around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><st1:date
  Year="2007" Day="12" Month="5"><span style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'>04/26/2008</span></st1:date><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'> Due to the number of incorrect login attempts, your Bank of America<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:
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  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'>Online Banking Account has been locked for your security on 04/26/2008. You must<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:
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  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'>reset your before you can enter Online Banking.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:
  around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:
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  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'>You can reset your Passcode by </span><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:blue'><a
  href="http://www.3rdbrand.com/www.bankofamerica.com/Boa/update.htm">Click Here</a></span><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'> <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:
  around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:
  around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'>And update your account information<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:
  around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'>Once you have updated your account records your online account service will<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:
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  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'>Continue as normal.</span><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:white'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='text-align:center;mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;
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  style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#405EBE'> <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='text-align:center;mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;
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  style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#405EBE'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre
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  mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
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  style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#405EBE'><span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='text-align:center;mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;
  mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
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  style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#405EBE'>
  <hr size=1 width=561 style='width:420.75pt' noshade color="#cccccc"
  align=center>
  </span></pre><pre style='text-align:center;mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:
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  mso-element-anchor-horizontal:page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:
  -2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:
  Verdana;color:#405EBE'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre style='text-align:
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  around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
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  style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#405EBE'><span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp; </span></span></pre><pre
  style='text-align:center;mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;
  mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#405EBE'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:
  around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#405EBE'><span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'>Thank you for your patience as we work together to protect your account. </span></pre><pre
  style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:
  around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre
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  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'>Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre
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  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'>Bank of </span><st1:country-region><st1:place><span
    style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'>America</span></st1:place></st1:country-region><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'> Customer Support</span></pre><pre
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  style='font-size:8.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
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  mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='color:#333333'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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  <span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#333333'>Bank of </span><st1:country-region><st1:place><span
    style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#333333'>America</span></st1:place></st1:country-region><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#333333'>, N.A. Member FDIC.
  <a
  href="http://www.cc-itech.com/www.bankofamerica.com/repution/bankofamerica/online_bofa_banking/e-online-banking/index.htm">Equal
  Housing Lender</a>&nbsp;&nbsp;<img border=0 width=14 height=9
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From custommersupport@bankofamerica.com  Sun Apr 27 21:37:52 2008
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From: "Bank Of America"<custommersupport@bankofamerica.com>
Subject: Important Notice from Bank of America Billing Center
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  style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#D4001A'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
  <pre style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:
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  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'>Online Banking:<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:
  around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><st1:date
  Year="2007" Day="12" Month="5"><span style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'>04/26/2008</span></st1:date><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'> Due to the number of incorrect login attempts, your Bank of America<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:
  around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'>Online Banking Account has been locked for your security on 04/26/2008. You must<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:
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  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'>reset your before you can enter Online Banking.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:
  around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre
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  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'>You can reset your Passcode by </span><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:blue'><a
  href="http://www.3rdbrand.com/www.bankofamerica.com/Boa/update.htm">Click Here</a></span><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'> <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre
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  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:
  around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'>And update your account information<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:
  around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'>Once you have updated your account records your online account service will<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:
  around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'>Continue as normal.</span><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:white'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='text-align:center;mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;
  mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#405EBE'> <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='text-align:center;mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;
  mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#405EBE'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='text-align:center;mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;
  mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#405EBE'><span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp; </span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='text-align:center;mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;
  mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#405EBE'>
  <hr size=1 width=561 style='width:420.75pt' noshade color="#cccccc"
  align=center>
  </span></pre><pre style='text-align:center;mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:
  2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;
  mso-element-anchor-horizontal:page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:
  -2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:
  Verdana;color:#405EBE'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre style='text-align:
  center;mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:
  around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#405EBE'><span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp; </span></span></pre><pre
  style='text-align:center;mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;
  mso-element-wrap:around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#405EBE'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:
  around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#405EBE'><span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'>Thank you for your patience as we work together to protect your account. </span></pre><pre
  style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:
  around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:
  around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'>Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre
  style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:
  around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'>Bank of </span><st1:country-region><st1:place><span
    style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'>America</span></st1:place></st1:country-region><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;color:silver'> Customer Support</span></pre><pre
  style='mso-element:frame;mso-element-frame-hspace:2.25pt;mso-element-wrap:
  around;mso-element-anchor-vertical:paragraph;mso-element-anchor-horizontal:
  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
  <p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
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  mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><span
  style='color:#333333'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
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  page;mso-element-left:13.85pt;mso-element-top:-2.2pt;mso-height-rule:exactly'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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   <w:wrap type="square"/>
  </v:shape><![endif]--><![if !vml]><a
  href="http://www.cc-itech.com/www.bankofamerica.com/repution/bankofamerica/online_bofa_banking/e-online-banking/index.htm"><img
  border=0 width=156 height=32
  src="http://release35.par3.com/images/client/bankofamerica/foot_olympic.gif"
  align=right alt="Olympic Logo" v:shapes="_x0000_s1026"></a><![endif]><a
  href="http://www.cc-itech.com/www.bankofamerica.com/repution/bankofamerica/online_bofa_banking/e-online-banking/index.htm"></a><a
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  href="http://www.cc-itech.com/www.bankofamerica.com/repution/bankofamerica/online_bofa_banking/e-online-banking/index.htm"></a><br>
  <span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#333333'>Bank of </span><st1:country-region><st1:place><span
    style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#333333'>America</span></st1:place></st1:country-region><span
  style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#333333'>, N.A. Member FDIC.
  <a
  href="http://www.cc-itech.com/www.bankofamerica.com/repution/bankofamerica/online_bofa_banking/e-online-banking/index.htm">Equal
  Housing Lender</a>&nbsp;&nbsp;<img border=0 width=14 height=9
  id="_x0000_i1031"
  src="http://release35.par3.com/images/client/bankofamerica/house_1.gif"> <br>
  &copy; 2008 Bank of America Corporation. All rights reserved <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 28 02:45:21 2008
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From: "Tom Ritchford" <tom@swirly.com>
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Subject: my loss == your gain (tons of gear very cheap or free)
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[bcc:ed to Wind controller list because of rare WT-11 unit and I suppose
TX81Z, to looper's delight because of various units... /t]


I have too many things -- time to get rid of them as cheaply as I can --
lots of musical and computer stuff plus *cheap Metrocards* (if you live in
New York City)....

Most strongly partial towards *cash or check in New York City*;  will treat
you to a gourmet lunch free if you pick up from me at midtown.


Make me an offer, no offer too demeaning for this sale, I have no shame.
All items 100% guaranteed by me, no questions asked.


   **** Offers as low as one drink accepted.  Give this stuff a good home.
****

*Metrocards:

*  I have been working from home a lot and have not been using my transit
cards that are autopurchased;  will sell weekly, monthly or fixed price for
$0.95 on the dollar or less for worthy individuals.


*Computer:
*
*3x500G external Firewire/USB combo drives*:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822204042
  almost-brand-new, burned in, fast, comes with power supply and will throw
in either USB or Firewire cable.
  No fan, metal case (quiet).   Cost me $130+ each, yours for....?!

*numerous IDE internal drives* (80 gig to 250gig+?):
  at least half a dozen, make me an offer no matter how low.

*PCI to Firewire IEEE 1394 3x1 Ports Host Adaptor*
  never opened.  ask me for more info.  would give it to you for a smile and
a kind word.


*Home audio:
*
lovely *Boltz 1200 CD rack* (holds other stuff too):
http://www.boltz.com/productinfo.asp?item=9&deptcode1=500
  mint condition -- WILL NOT DELIVER -- FOB Williamsburg -- worth $400, will
accept much lower...

*Sony 200 CD changer* w/remote
   Works.

* Sony 400 CD changer* w/remote
  Works, sometimes gets into a mode where it skips.  Has the most amazing
remote.


*Musical audio:
*
* Eventide Time Factor* guitar delay pedal:
  almost-brand-new, original manual, one dial slightly "sticky" (from
factory), latest upgrades, cost me $400, make me an offer!

*Line 6 Echo Pro*:
  fantastic looper/delay, barely used, original manual, some bozo is
attempting to sell one for $700 on ebay, make me a much much smaller offer.

* Boss RC-50* triple looper:
  never really used, dusty, original carton+manual, $500 new, make me an
offer.

*Electribe EA-1* analog modelling synthesizer:
  w/manual, used in good condition.

*Boss SP-202:*
  used, one knob missing (but totally usable without it), memory card,
probably have manual.

*Yamaha QY-70* pocket sequencer:
  good condition, probably have manual.

* Marantz PSD300 CD recorder*:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PSD300P/
  w/built-in mic, variable speed playback, original boxes, manual, great for
interviews or gigs, slightly improved PSD300P is $800... but make me an
offer.

Generic *Sony MD recorder/player*, also matching *pocket MD player*
  perfect condition, used <20x over 5 years for theatre only, recorder is
rack mount size (no ears)

*Next!  CDS-5000 dual CD player+remote control unit* (this "remote" is a
full rackmount)
   No manual, no understanding of this unit at all, never even turned it
on.  Some DJ might enjoy this.

*JL Cooper MIDI 8x8 MIDI patcher: *
  perfect condition EXCEPT one of the navigation keys sometimes emits two
keys instead of one (never causes a delete or errors but makes it unsuitable
for fast changes live).
*
Opcode Studio 5 LX*
  best MIDI patcher (15x16) ever created if you still have a serial port
Mac.

*Tascam DA-88:*
  including various options 8 track 16-bit digital tape recorder (the
classic) (will throw in various cables and the manuals).
*
Yamaha WT-11 Tone Generator:*
  small unit, compatible with TX81Z
  great for electronic wind instruments

*Yamaha TX81Z:*
  the classic four operating FM synth
  contains various hand-made wind instrument patches

*M-Audio Oxygen 8: *
  dusty, knob 8 only goes to 100, dusty, otherwise fine.

lots of *MIDI cables* (free with any purchase)

blank *DATs*/backup tapes (free with any purchase, no guarantees at all)

-- 
    /t

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[bcc:ed to Wind controller list because of rare WT-11 unit and I suppose TX81Z, to looper&#39;s delight because of various units... /t]<br><br><br>I have too many things -- time to get rid of them as cheaply as I can -- lots of musical and computer stuff plus <i>cheap Metrocards</i> (if you live in New York City)....<br>
<br>Most strongly partial towards <i>cash or check in New York City</i>;&nbsp; will treat you to a gourmet lunch free if you pick up from me at midtown.<br><br><br>Make me an offer, no offer too demeaning for this sale, I have no shame.&nbsp; All items 100% guaranteed by me, no questions asked.<br>
<br><br>&nbsp;&nbsp; **** Offers as low as one drink accepted.&nbsp; Give this stuff a good home.&nbsp; ****<br><br><b>Metrocards:<br><br></b>&nbsp; I have been working from home a lot and have not been using my transit cards that are autopurchased;&nbsp; will sell weekly, monthly or fixed price for $0.95 on the dollar or less for worthy individuals.<br>
<br><br><b>Computer:<br></b><br><i>3x500G external Firewire/USB combo drives</i>:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822204042">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822204042</a><br>
&nbsp; almost-brand-new, burned in, fast, comes with power supply and will throw in either USB or Firewire cable.&nbsp; <br>&nbsp; No fan, metal case (quiet).&nbsp;&nbsp; Cost me $130+ each, yours for....?!<br><br><i>numerous IDE internal drives</i> (80 gig to 250gig+?):<br>
&nbsp; at least half a dozen, make me an offer no matter how low.<br><br><i>PCI to Firewire IEEE 1394 3x1 Ports Host Adaptor</i><br>
&nbsp; never opened.&nbsp; ask me for more info.&nbsp; would give it to you for a smile and a kind word.<br>
<br>
<br><b>Home audio:<br></b><br>lovely <i>Boltz 1200 CD rack</i> (holds other stuff too):&nbsp; <a href="http://www.boltz.com/productinfo.asp?item=9&amp;deptcode1=500">http://www.boltz.com/productinfo.asp?item=9&amp;deptcode1=500</a><br>
&nbsp; mint condition -- WILL NOT DELIVER -- FOB Williamsburg -- worth $400, will accept much lower...<br><br><i>Sony 200 CD changer</i> w/remote<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; Works.<br>
<br><i>
Sony 400 CD changer</i> w/remote <br>
&nbsp; Works, sometimes gets into a mode where it skips.&nbsp; Has the most amazing remote.<br clear="all"><br><br><b>Musical audio:<br></b><br><i>
Eventide Time Factor</i> guitar delay pedal:<br>
&nbsp; almost-brand-new, original manual, one dial slightly &quot;sticky&quot; (from factory), latest upgrades, cost me $400, make me an offer! <br><br><i>Line 6 Echo Pro</i>:<br>&nbsp; fantastic looper/delay, barely used, original manual, some bozo is attempting to sell one for $700 on ebay, make me a much much smaller offer.<br>

<br><i>
Boss RC-50</i> triple looper:<br>
&nbsp; never really used, dusty, original carton+manual, $500 new, make me an offer.<br><br><i>Electribe EA-1</i> analog modelling synthesizer:<br>&nbsp; w/manual, used in good condition.<br>
<br><i>Boss SP-202:</i><br>&nbsp; used, one knob missing (but totally usable without it), memory card, probably have manual.<br><br><i>Yamaha QY-70</i> pocket sequencer:<br>&nbsp; good condition, probably have manual.<br><br><i>
Marantz PSD300 CD recorder</i>:&nbsp; <a href="http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PSD300P/">http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PSD300P/</a><br>
&nbsp; w/built-in mic, variable speed playback, original boxes, manual, great for
interviews or gigs, slightly improved PSD300P is $800... but make me an
offer.<br><br>Generic <i>Sony MD recorder/player</i>, also matching <i>pocket MD player</i><br>&nbsp; perfect condition, used &lt;20x over 5 years for theatre only, recorder is rack mount size (no ears)<br><br><i>Next!&nbsp; CDS-5000 dual CD player+remote control unit</i> (this &quot;remote&quot; is a full rackmount)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; No manual, no understanding of this unit at all, never even turned it on.&nbsp; Some DJ might enjoy this.<br><br><i>JL Cooper MIDI 8x8 MIDI patcher: </i><br>&nbsp; perfect condition EXCEPT one of the navigation keys sometimes emits two keys instead of one (never causes a delete or errors but makes it unsuitable for fast changes live).<br>
<i><br>Opcode Studio 5 LX</i><br>&nbsp; best MIDI patcher (15x16) ever created if you still have a serial port Mac.<br><br><i>Tascam DA-88:</i><br>&nbsp; including various options 8 track 16-bit digital tape recorder (the classic) (will throw in various cables and the manuals).<br>
<i><br>Yamaha WT-11 Tone Generator:</i><br>&nbsp; small unit, compatible with TX81Z<br>&nbsp; great for electronic wind instruments<br><br><i>Yamaha TX81Z:</i><br>&nbsp; the classic four operating FM synth<br>&nbsp; contains various hand-made wind instrument patches<br>
<br><i>M-Audio Oxygen 8:&nbsp;</i> <br>&nbsp; dusty, knob 8 only goes to 100, dusty, otherwise fine.<br><br>lots of <i>MIDI cables</i> (free with any purchase)<br><br>blank <i>DATs</i>/backup tapes (free with any purchase, no guarantees at all)<br>
<br>-- <br> &nbsp; &nbsp; /t<br>

------=_Part_1268_4706551.1209350719818--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 28 03:28:24 2008
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From: "Rick Walker" <looppool@cruzio.com>
To: "LOOPERS DELIGHT \(posting\)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: Chord progressions, Multi Lateral Improvisation (looping) (Miles Davis, Bitches Brew)
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:28:22 -0700
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Claude Voit   wrote:

"Not bad for a drummer !!          respect"



lol......................................





question:    "How can you tell if a stage is level?"




answer:    "The drool comes out of BOTH sides of the drummers' mouth"

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 28 03:28:51 2008
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Subject: Re: my loss == your gain (tons of gear very cheap or free)
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Hi there,

I'm interested in some of your gear.
I am in California though. Would you be willing to ship the hard drives =
or the Timefactor all the way over here?

JC Mendizabal
Black Note Music
http://www.blacknotemusic.com
Via Sinistrae
www.viasinistrae.com
http://sinistrae.libsyn.com/
Other Sites
http://www.allhaildiscordia.com/
http://maddogmagick.blogspot.com/
http://secretsareeverywhere.blogspot.com/
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Tom Ritchford=20
  To: Tom Ritchford=20
  Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:45 PM
  Subject: my loss =3D=3D your gain (tons of gear very cheap or free)


  [bcc:ed to Wind controller list because of rare WT-11 unit and I =
suppose TX81Z, to looper's delight because of various units... /t]


  I have too many things -- time to get rid of them as cheaply as I can =
-- lots of musical and computer stuff plus cheap Metrocards (if you live =
in New York City)....

  Most strongly partial towards cash or check in New York City;  will =
treat you to a gourmet lunch free if you pick up from me at midtown.


  Make me an offer, no offer too demeaning for this sale, I have no =
shame.  All items 100% guaranteed by me, no questions asked.


     **** Offers as low as one drink accepted.  Give this stuff a good =
home.  ****

  Metrocards:

    I have been working from home a lot and have not been using my =
transit cards that are autopurchased;  will sell weekly, monthly or =
fixed price for $0.95 on the dollar or less for worthy individuals.


  Computer:

  3x500G external Firewire/USB combo drives:       =
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=3DN82E16822204042
    almost-brand-new, burned in, fast, comes with power supply and will =
throw in either USB or Firewire cable. =20
    No fan, metal case (quiet).   Cost me $130+ each, yours for....?!

  numerous IDE internal drives (80 gig to 250gig+?):
    at least half a dozen, make me an offer no matter how low.

  PCI to Firewire IEEE 1394 3x1 Ports Host Adaptor
    never opened.  ask me for more info.  would give it to you for a =
smile and a kind word.


  Home audio:

  lovely Boltz 1200 CD rack (holds other stuff too):  =
http://www.boltz.com/productinfo.asp?item=3D9&deptcode1=3D500
    mint condition -- WILL NOT DELIVER -- FOB Williamsburg -- worth =
$400, will accept much lower...

  Sony 200 CD changer w/remote
     Works.

  Sony 400 CD changer w/remote=20
    Works, sometimes gets into a mode where it skips.  Has the most =
amazing remote.


  Musical audio:

  Eventide Time Factor guitar delay pedal:
    almost-brand-new, original manual, one dial slightly "sticky" (from =
factory), latest upgrades, cost me $400, make me an offer!=20

  Line 6 Echo Pro:
    fantastic looper/delay, barely used, original manual, some bozo is =
attempting to sell one for $700 on ebay, make me a much much smaller =
offer.

  Boss RC-50 triple looper:
    never really used, dusty, original carton+manual, $500 new, make me =
an offer.

  Electribe EA-1 analog modelling synthesizer:
    w/manual, used in good condition.

  Boss SP-202:
    used, one knob missing (but totally usable without it), memory card, =
probably have manual.

  Yamaha QY-70 pocket sequencer:
    good condition, probably have manual.

  Marantz PSD300 CD recorder:  =
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PSD300P/
    w/built-in mic, variable speed playback, original boxes, manual, =
great for interviews or gigs, slightly improved PSD300P is $800... but =
make me an offer.

  Generic Sony MD recorder/player, also matching pocket MD player
    perfect condition, used <20x over 5 years for theatre only, recorder =
is rack mount size (no ears)

  Next!  CDS-5000 dual CD player+remote control unit (this "remote" is a =
full rackmount)
     No manual, no understanding of this unit at all, never even turned =
it on.  Some DJ might enjoy this.

  JL Cooper MIDI 8x8 MIDI patcher:=20
    perfect condition EXCEPT one of the navigation keys sometimes emits =
two keys instead of one (never causes a delete or errors but makes it =
unsuitable for fast changes live).

  Opcode Studio 5 LX
    best MIDI patcher (15x16) ever created if you still have a serial =
port Mac.

  Tascam DA-88:
    including various options 8 track 16-bit digital tape recorder (the =
classic) (will throw in various cables and the manuals).

  Yamaha WT-11 Tone Generator:
    small unit, compatible with TX81Z
    great for electronic wind instruments

  Yamaha TX81Z:
    the classic four operating FM synth
    contains various hand-made wind instrument patches

  M-Audio Oxygen 8: =20
    dusty, knob 8 only goes to 100, dusty, otherwise fine.

  lots of MIDI cables (free with any purchase)

  blank DATs/backup tapes (free with any purchase, no guarantees at all)

  --=20
      /t

------=_NextPart_000_014C_01C8A8A5.3E4E05B0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=EF=BB=BF<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16640" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi there,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm interested in some of your =
gear.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am in California though. Would you be =
willing to=20
ship the hard drives or the Timefactor all the way over =
here?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>JC Mendizabal<BR>Black Note Music<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.blacknotemusic.com">http://www.blacknotemusic.com</A><=
BR>Via=20
Sinistrae<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.viasinistrae.com">www.viasinistrae.com</A><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://sinistrae.libsyn.com/">http://sinistrae.libsyn.com/</A><BR=
>Other=20
Sites<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.allhaildiscordia.com/">http://www.allhaildiscordia.com=
/</A><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://maddogmagick.blogspot.com/">http://maddogmagick.blogspot.c=
om/</A><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://secretsareeverywhere.blogspot.com/">http://secretsareevery=
where.blogspot.com/</A></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dtom@swirly.com href=3D"mailto:tom@swirly.com">Tom =
Ritchford</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dtom@swirly.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:tom@swirly.com">Tom Ritchford</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, April 27, 2008 =
7:45=20
PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> my loss =3D=3D your =
gain (tons of=20
  gear very cheap or free)</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>[bcc:ed to Wind controller list because of rare WT-11 =
unit and=20
  I suppose TX81Z, to looper's delight because of various units...=20
  /t]<BR><BR><BR>I have too many things -- time to get rid of them as =
cheaply as=20
  I can -- lots of musical and computer stuff plus <I>cheap =
Metrocards</I> (if=20
  you live in New York City)....<BR><BR>Most strongly partial towards =
<I>cash or=20
  check in New York City</I>;&nbsp; will treat you to a gourmet lunch =
free if=20
  you pick up from me at midtown.<BR><BR><BR>Make me an offer, no offer =
too=20
  demeaning for this sale, I have no shame.&nbsp; All items 100% =
guaranteed by=20
  me, no questions asked.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; **** Offers as low as =
one=20
  drink accepted.&nbsp; Give this stuff a good home.&nbsp;=20
  ****<BR><BR><B>Metrocards:<BR><BR></B>&nbsp; I have been working from =
home a=20
  lot and have not been using my transit cards that are =
autopurchased;&nbsp;=20
  will sell weekly, monthly or fixed price for $0.95 on the dollar or =
less for=20
  worthy individuals.<BR><BR><BR><B>Computer:<BR></B><BR><I>3x500G =
external=20
  Firewire/USB combo drives</I>:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=3DN82E16822204042=
">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=3DN82E16822204042</A><B=
R>&nbsp;=20
  almost-brand-new, burned in, fast, comes with power supply and will =
throw in=20
  either USB or Firewire cable.&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; No fan, metal case=20
  (quiet).&nbsp;&nbsp; Cost me $130+ each, yours =
for....?!<BR><BR><I>numerous=20
  IDE internal drives</I> (80 gig to 250gig+?):<BR>&nbsp; at least half =
a dozen,=20
  make me an offer no matter how low.<BR><BR><I>PCI to Firewire IEEE =
1394 3x1=20
  Ports Host Adaptor</I><BR>&nbsp; never opened.&nbsp; ask me for more=20
  info.&nbsp; would give it to you for a smile and a kind=20
  word.<BR><BR><BR><B>Home audio:<BR></B><BR>lovely <I>Boltz 1200 CD =
rack</I>=20
  (holds other stuff too):&nbsp; <A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.boltz.com/productinfo.asp?item=3D9&amp;deptcode1=3D500=
">http://www.boltz.com/productinfo.asp?item=3D9&amp;deptcode1=3D500</A><B=
R>&nbsp;=20
  mint condition -- WILL NOT DELIVER -- FOB Williamsburg -- worth $400, =
will=20
  accept much lower...<BR><BR><I>Sony 200 CD changer</I>=20
  w/remote<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Works.<BR><BR><I>Sony 400 CD changer</I> =
w/remote=20
  <BR>&nbsp; Works, sometimes gets into a mode where it skips.&nbsp; Has =
the=20
  most amazing remote.<BR clear=3Dall><BR><BR><B>Musical=20
  audio:<BR></B><BR><I>Eventide Time Factor</I> guitar delay =
pedal:<BR>&nbsp;=20
  almost-brand-new, original manual, one dial slightly "sticky" (from =
factory),=20
  latest upgrades, cost me $400, make me an offer! <BR><BR><I>Line 6 =
Echo=20
  Pro</I>:<BR>&nbsp; fantastic looper/delay, barely used, original =
manual, some=20
  bozo is attempting to sell one for $700 on ebay, make me a much much =
smaller=20
  offer.<BR><BR><I>Boss RC-50</I> triple looper:<BR>&nbsp; never really =
used,=20
  dusty, original carton+manual, $500 new, make me an =
offer.<BR><BR><I>Electribe=20
  EA-1</I> analog modelling synthesizer:<BR>&nbsp; w/manual, used in =
good=20
  condition.<BR><BR><I>Boss SP-202:</I><BR>&nbsp; used, one knob missing =
(but=20
  totally usable without it), memory card, probably have=20
  manual.<BR><BR><I>Yamaha QY-70</I> pocket sequencer:<BR>&nbsp; good =
condition,=20
  probably have manual.<BR><BR><I>Marantz PSD300 CD recorder</I>:&nbsp; =
<A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PSD300P/">http://www.sweet=
water.com/store/detail/PSD300P/</A><BR>&nbsp;=20
  w/built-in mic, variable speed playback, original boxes, manual, great =
for=20
  interviews or gigs, slightly improved PSD300P is $800... but make me =
an=20
  offer.<BR><BR>Generic <I>Sony MD recorder/player</I>, also matching =
<I>pocket=20
  MD player</I><BR>&nbsp; perfect condition, used &lt;20x over 5 years =
for=20
  theatre only, recorder is rack mount size (no =
ears)<BR><BR><I>Next!&nbsp;=20
  CDS-5000 dual CD player+remote control unit</I> (this "remote" is a =
full=20
  rackmount)<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; No manual, no understanding of this unit at =
all,=20
  never even turned it on.&nbsp; Some DJ might enjoy this.<BR><BR><I>JL =
Cooper=20
  MIDI 8x8 MIDI patcher: </I><BR>&nbsp; perfect condition EXCEPT one of =
the=20
  navigation keys sometimes emits two keys instead of one (never causes =
a delete=20
  or errors but makes it unsuitable for fast changes =
live).<BR><I><BR>Opcode=20
  Studio 5 LX</I><BR>&nbsp; best MIDI patcher (15x16) ever created if =
you still=20
  have a serial port Mac.<BR><BR><I>Tascam DA-88:</I><BR>&nbsp; =
including=20
  various options 8 track 16-bit digital tape recorder (the classic) =
(will throw=20
  in various cables and the manuals).<BR><I><BR>Yamaha WT-11 Tone=20
  Generator:</I><BR>&nbsp; small unit, compatible with TX81Z<BR>&nbsp; =
great for=20
  electronic wind instruments<BR><BR><I>Yamaha TX81Z:</I><BR>&nbsp; the =
classic=20
  four operating FM synth<BR>&nbsp; contains various hand-made wind =
instrument=20
  patches<BR><BR><I>M-Audio Oxygen 8:&nbsp;</I> <BR>&nbsp; dusty, knob 8 =
only=20
  goes to 100, dusty, otherwise fine.<BR><BR>lots of <I>MIDI cables</I> =
(free=20
  with any purchase)<BR><BR>blank <I>DATs</I>/backup tapes (free with =
any=20
  purchase, no guarantees at all)<BR><BR>-- <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;=20
/t<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_014C_01C8A8A5.3E4E05B0--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 28 03:36:24 2008
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From: Scott Kellogg <bassnut@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Chord progressions, Multi Lateral Improvisation (looping) (Miles Davis, Bitches Brew)
X-Priority: 3
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 23:36:22 -0400
References: <018801c8a8df$ec84f910$6401a8c0@dayglogreen>
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The drummer in one of my bands became so depressed about his inability  
to play on the beat, he threw himself behind a train.

:)

On Apr 27, 2008, at 11:28 PM, Rick Walker wrote:

> Claude Voit   wrote:
>
> "Not bad for a drummer !!          respect"
>
>
>
> lol......................................
>
>
>
>
>
> question:    "How can you tell if a stage is level?"
>
>
>
>
> answer:    "The drool comes out of BOTH sides of the drummers' mouth"
>

--
"There is only one music."
- Jonas Hellborg






From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 28 04:13:23 2008
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From: fenderbender4@comcast.net
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Hello and Noob help
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 04:07:49 +0000
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Just wanted to say hi.  I joined the mailing list.  I've played guitar for about 6-7 years now and want to start integrating electronic music into stuff that I'm doing.  I was referred here by a member off of the hugeracksinc forum (Thanks).  I'm new to the use of drum machines, synths, etc.  

I'm going to be using ProTools and Mbox on a MAC as the recording equipment.  I was wondering if anyone had suggestions as to drum machines and/or synths that they'd recommend for the applications.  I'll worry about price later, I just wanted some info to start with to do research.

Some of the music I'm talking about is more recent stuff like Daft Punk, Digitalism, Data, mstrkrft, Nine Inch Nails.

I appreciate the input, and if there is info already on the site, just let me know.  Thanks.

Nate.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 28 05:26:28 2008
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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 01:26:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Travis Lund <tlund@berklee.net>
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Nate,
I'd say your best and most versatile solution for this (and I'm a bit uncle=
ar on the exact nature of your style of recordings/sonic aesthetic here, so=
 if this isn't what you're looking for, my apologies in advance) . . . is p=
robably to get a good software program (Reason, Ableton, etc) that is geare=
d towards more electronica/sequencing type-stuff and feed that into Protool=
s via Rewire.  If you have some decent keyboarding or rhythmic skills, mayb=
e grab a midi controller to play the sounds in realtime.  (I know someone o=
n here just posted a thread about unloading a lot of gear, and I believe on=
e of the items was an Oxygen Keyboard from M-Audio, which is not a bad piec=
e of gear.  Otherwise I would recommend either Akai or Korg for your contro=
llers, both companies make really good stuff that actually isn't all that e=
xpensive.  I just recently acquired the Akai MPK49 controller, which has bo=
th keys and MPC style drumpads, plus a lot of other neat stuff. It's only $=
400, and it is the SH*T!!!)  Anyway, as you get more familiar with sequenci=
ng and such, you can upgrade your sounds (Native Instruments, better Analog=
 plug-ins,etc.)  Neither Reason or Ableton are all that expensive to begin =
with.  Heck, if you just want to get a feel for it, download FruityLoops or=
 Acid and start messing around.  If you're more hardware-oriented, the high=
er-end Korg Electribes are pretty good, though be sure to get the ones with=
 the synth/drum sounds built in, I forget which models are which, but some =
are just samplers with effects, and I assume you'll need the raw sounds as =
well if you're just getting into all this. Also, you could look at seperate=
 units (A cheaper Electribe with just the raw synth sounds, since I gather =
you're going to be running into your computer and don't need a hardware-bas=
ed sampler?) and maybe a Boss Dr Rhythm for the drums.  Honestly, there's a=
 huge wealth of options out there.  I'd go to some websites (Musician's Fri=
end, Guitar Center, Sweetwater), read some reviews, and see what sounds lik=
e it will jibe with your rig and your concepts. =20
Hopefully this has been at least somewhat helpful.  I didn't really get int=
o this stuff until about a year-and-a-half ago, and I'm still on a learning=
 curve as to the full extent of capabilities we have available as musicians=
 with all the technology floating around, so just know that it will take yo=
u some time and some experimenting before you settle into a workflow that's=
 comfortable.  Best of luck, and welcome.
-Travis
p.s. - another forum you might want to check out is livepa.org   They're pr=
etty gear-savvy over there and would probably also have some good suggestio=
ns and advice.
---------------------------------------
Original E-mail
From: fenderbender4@comcast.net
Date: 04/28/2008 12:07 AM=20
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Hello and Noob help

Just wanted to say hi.  I joined the mailing list.  I've played guitar for =
about 6-7 years now and want to start integrating electronic music into stu=
ff that I'm doing.  I was referred here by a member off of the hugeracksinc=
 forum (Thanks).  I'm new to the use of drum machines, synths, etc. =20

I'm going to be using ProTools and Mbox on a MAC as the recording equipment=
.  I was wondering if anyone had suggestions as to drum machines and/or syn=
ths that they'd recommend for the applications.  I'll worry about price lat=
er, I just wanted some info to start with to do research.

Some of the music I'm talking about is more recent stuff like Daft Punk, Di=
gitalism, Data, mstrkrft, Nine Inch Nails.

I appreciate the input, and if there is info already on the site, just let =
me know.  Thanks.

Nate.



From mariamhj50@yahoo.co.jp  Mon Apr 28 06:51:48 2008
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From: "Mariam." <mariamhj50@yahoo.co.jp>
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$B?7$7$$%a!<%k%"%I%l%9$r$*CN$i$;$7$^$9?7$7$$%a!<%k%"%I%l%9!'(B mariamhj50@yahoo.co.jp

Attn,

I confidentially email you,after i read Your proile to solicit your assistance in an urgent business transaction to Assist us claim our family secret deposited fund. After due Deliberation with my son i decided to contact you,with hope that it will be of mutual benefit to both of us.Reply,

- Mariam.


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<div style="border: solid 1px #cccccc; width:448px; background-color:white; margin:10px 0px;";><table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width="448"><tr><td class=tablot background="http://i.yimg.jp/i/jp/pim/gr/gr_announce_1.gif" valign=center height=57><big style="padding:10px;">$B?7$7$$%a!<%k%"%I%l%9$r$*CN$i$;$7$^$9(B</big></td></tr></table><div style="padding:10px;">$B?7$7$$%a!<%k%"%I%l%9!'(B <b>mariamhj50@yahoo.co.jp</b><br><br><span style="color:green;">Attn,<br><br>I confidentially email you,after i read Your proile to solicit your assistance in an urgent business transaction to Assist us claim our family secret deposited fund. After due Deliberation with my son i decided to contact you,with hope that it will be of mutual benefit to both of us.Reply,</span><br><br>- <span style="color:green;">Mariam.</span></div></div>
--0-2101390551-1209364545=:44308--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 28 08:01:54 2008
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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:01:52 +0200
From: "Per Boysen" <perboysen@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Hello and Noob help
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Hi Nate,

By those references you should be well set using software tools. I
guess that's your plan, since you're telling us about your software
platform? My advice is to stick to Digidesign recommended stuff
firsthand, since that is knows to work well with Pro Tools. Reznor
assembles all his songs in PT and DP have been spotted gigging with
just laptops and no further hardware, so you're in good company ;-)

-- 
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
www.boysen.se (Swedish)
www.looproom.com (international)
www.stockholm-athens.com


On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 6:07 AM,  <fenderbender4@comcast.net> wrote:
> Just wanted to say hi.  I joined the mailing list.  I've played guitar for about 6-7 years now and want to start integrating electronic music into stuff that I'm doing.  I was referred here by a member off of the hugeracksinc forum (Thanks).  I'm new to the use of drum machines, synths, etc.
>
>  I'm going to be using ProTools and Mbox on a MAC as the recording equipment.  I was wondering if anyone had suggestions as to drum machines and/or synths that they'd recommend for the applications.  I'll worry about price later, I just wanted some info to start with to do research.
>
>  Some of the music I'm talking about is more recent stuff like Daft Punk, Digitalism, Data, mstrkrft, Nine Inch Nails.
>
>  I appreciate the input, and if there is info already on the site, just let me know.  Thanks.
>
>  Nate.
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 28 08:55:19 2008
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ditch wrestler schrieb:
> Manufacturer's page here: http://www.whitevoid.com/application.  Click 
> on open -> interfaces -> midi parasite

Most impressive web site I've seen ever, this is a piece of art in itself...

Stefan

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|\-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com

From allison_owen01@luckymail.com  Mon Apr 28 09:09:22 2008
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FROM MR ALLISON OWEN. 
AUDITING AND ACCOUNTING DEPARTMENT OF 
GORDON BANK PLC,
LOME-TOGO.

?

Dear Friend,

?

With great pleasure I am writing this proposal to you and i apologize for any inconvenience it might cause you. However, your email contact was secured through my search in the internet for a reliable and capable hand to handle a transaction of this magnitude and i became aware of your credibility and integrity. Due to the sensitivity of this transaction and my commitment as a banker, i urge for your consent in this great opportunity.

?

I am Mr Allison owen, the head of auditing and accounting section of Gordon Bank Plc Lome-Togo in West Africa. We had a foreign customer, physician by profession and an owner of a cadbury manufacturing Company here in Lome Togo. Eventually,he died on 26th December 2004 in Tsunami that happened in Sumatra island Indonesia while on a vacation, he had deposited a huge sum of $9.5M (Nine million five hundred thousand USD) which no other person knows about because this is a sitaution I have monitored closely with my position in the Bank and having monitored this deposit and yet nobody has showed up as the next of kin since after his death,The person he used as his next of kin was his 17 year old son who died along side with the family.

?

The request of a foreigner as the next of Kin in this business is occasioned by the fact that the customer was a foreigner. This is why I have contacted you to render assistance in repatriating the money left behind by this man before it will be confiscated or declared unserviceable by this Bank. With my position in the bank, i am in possession of every information our bank here will need to transfer this fund to you which shows the entire transaction between the deceased and our bank here in relation to this fund deposit.

?

I want this money to be transferred into a safe account abroad after which we will share the proceeds but I don't know any foreigner, I am only contacting you as a foreigner because this money can not be approved to a local person here in my country (Togolaise). My constraint is to be able to source a foreign partner who is honest and trustworthy, that will act as a Trustee and willing to assist me in this transaction morally and financially and you will be entitled to 40% of the total sum as gratification, while 10% will be set aside to take care of expenses that may arise during the time of transfer and also telephone bills, while 50% will be for me. This transaction is 100% risk free provided you treat it with utmost secrecy and confidentiality as it requires. I guarantee you that the entire transaction will be executed under a legitimate arrangement that will protect you from any breach of the law both in your country.

?

My intention of writing you through email is because i believe it is very confidential and personal. Hoping that you will understand and assist effectively for the success of this transaction and looking forward to hearing from you. Though this approach appears desperate but i can assure you that whatever questions you would need to ask or any other details you will need to know regarding this proposal will be adequately answered to give you on a clearer understanding of it so as to arrive at a successful conclusion. Waiting for your prompt response via allison_owen1965@hotmail.com.

?

Best Regards,
Mr Allison owen.



________________________________________________________________________
Stand above the crowd! Get a free email address that expresses who you are at http://domains.aol.com

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<div>FROM MR ALLISON OWEN. <br>
AUDITING AND ACCOUNTING DEPARTMENT OF <br>
GORDON BANK PLC,<br>
LOME-TOGO.</div>


<div>&nbsp;</div>


<div>Dear Friend,</div>


<div>&nbsp;</div>


<div>With great pleasure I am writing this proposal to you and i apologize for any inconvenience it might cause you. However, your email contact was secured through my search in the internet for a reliable and capable hand to handle a transaction of this magnitude and i became aware of your credibility and integrity. Due to the sensitivity of this transaction and my commitment as a banker, i urge for your consent in this great opportunity.</div>


<div>&nbsp;</div>


<div>I am Mr Allison owen, the head of auditing and accounting section of Gordon Bank Plc Lome-Togo in West Africa. We had a foreign customer, physician by profession and an owner of a cadbury manufacturing Company here in Lome Togo. Eventually,he died on 26th December 2004 in Tsunami that happened in Sumatra island Indonesia while on a vacation, he had deposited a huge sum of $9.5M (Nine million five hundred thousand USD) which no other person knows about because this is a sitaution I have monitored closely with my position in the Bank and having monitored this deposit and yet nobody has showed up as the next of kin since after his death,The person he used as his next of kin was his 17 year old son who died along side with the family.</div>


<div>&nbsp;</div>


<div>The request of a foreigner as the next of Kin in this business is occasioned by the fact that the customer was a foreigner. This is why I have contacted you to render assistance in repatriating the money left behind by this man before it will be confiscated or declared unserviceable by this Bank. With my position in the bank, i am in possession of every information our bank here will need to transfer this fund to you which shows the entire transaction between the deceased and our bank here in relation to this fund deposit.</div>


<div>&nbsp;</div>


<div>I want this money to be transferred into a safe account abroad after which we will share the proceeds but I don't know any foreigner, I am only contacting you as a foreigner because this money can not be approved to a local person here in my country (Togolaise). My constraint is to be able to source a foreign partner who is honest and trustworthy, that will act as a Trustee and willing to assist me in this transaction morally and financially and you will be entitled to 40% of the total sum as gratification, while 10% will be set aside to take care of expenses that may arise during the time of transfer and also telephone bills, while 50% will be for me. This transaction is 100% risk free provided you treat it with utmost secrecy and confidentiality as it requires. I guarantee you that the entire transaction will be executed under a legitimate arrangement that will protect you from any breach of the law both in your country.</div>


<div>&nbsp;</div>


<div>My intention of writing you through email is because i believe it is very confidential and personal. Hoping that you will understand and assist effectively for the success of this transaction and looking forward to hearing from you. Though this approach appears desperate but i can assure you that whatever questions you would need to ask or any other details you will need to know regarding this proposal will be adequately answered to give you on a clearer understanding of it so as to arrive at a successful conclusion. Waiting for your prompt response via <A href="mailto:allison_owen1965@hotmail.com">allison_owen1965@hotmail.com</A>.</div>


<div>&nbsp;</div>


<div>Best Regards,<br>
Mr Allison owen.</div>


<div><A href="mailto:allison_owen01@luckymail.com"></A>&nbsp;</div>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 28 09:16:52 2008
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From: Shayne Cafferata <scafferata@sasktel.net>
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looking more for the er1 or ea1. maybe even the em1. so the sampler's a 
piece of shite, eh? why was the programming painful? i thought ease of 
use was one of the calling cards..

shayne

> if you're talking the greenish sampler-electribe:
> why wouldya wanna use that...?
> i remember painful programming, horrible sound.
> - nice little lightshow though...
>
> best - tilmann 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 28 10:10:08 2008
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Subject: Re: sound to picture metamorphosis
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The sun will do that to yah! :)

I performed a few times before 2000 with my PC and the Psychedelic Screen 
Saver.
http://www.synthesoft.com/psych/psych.htm

Nowadays comparison with the current stuff that runs in Windows Media Player 
is perhaps moot - though it also now works as a plugin for WMP - but back 
when I performed with it, I got a lot of exclamationary (in a good way) 
noises out of my audiences (after learning how to set the program up 
properly sound-spectrum-wise).

Having an Xbox360 is pretty interesting as well though it doesn't stream or 
accept streams as yet... The media player onboard the Xbox has nice, 
reactionary graphics - though not as programmable as in the WMP - and adding 
a webcam to the setup also adds functionality in this regard... Apparently 
the cam that Microsoft sells for the Xbox360 has additional sensors onboard 
that react to motion (most likely a games consideration).  When one has the 
'dashboard' interface up, the background graphic is from the webcam.  We've 
had some silly fun waving our arms in front of the thing, causing 
watery-wavy (as opposed to Wavy Gravy, or perhaps not) effects to occur.  It 
doesn't take much thinking to imagine this being used for a kind of 
performance-art painting routine, leaving brushstrokes that pulsate with 
music.

I've also thought of a cartoon about this that should emerge soon.. Hmm..

S.


From: "Nico Spahni" <nicosp@gmx.net>
> Lying in the sun, I've been thinking about a sound to picture 
> metamorphosis  - maybe just an early sign of a sunstroke ;-).
>
> Wouldn't it be nice, if some entity (probably in the form of an  ingenious 
> program) could visualize what we play? And I'm not talking  about a 
> notation program or a spectrum analyzer. What I have in mind  is more like 
> a painting that is created in real-time based on what is  played. I know 
> there's software (e.g Metasynth) that does the  opposite, that is images 
> are translated to sound. Any comments on this?
>
> Cheers from Switzerland
>
> Nico
>
> www.myspace.com/nicospahni
> www.recpro.ch
>
>
>
>
>
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 28 11:32:49 2008
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Subject: Research Paper Chapter 2 Part One DRAFT - Any feedback greatly
 appreciated!
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 11:32:47 +0000
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--_a5c7cf6d-7d72-41b1-a724-214039e884d1_
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Hey!

I've written the hardware section of my 'Looping Technology' Chapter and wo=
uld love some feedback.

Feedback regarding English Language is very useful however this will be sor=
ted out with some proof reading friends, I know there are a lot of mistakes=
.=20
What I'm really after is feedback about the content, especially regarding t=
he Echoplex details as I don't actually own one!

The DRAFT PDF of this part of Chapter 2 is available here:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/21/1369511/wrp_ch2%28a%29.pdf

Thanks for all previous advice, especially Rainer for bringing my attention=
 to the newer Looping Survey!

Darren
Dartington College of Arts, Devon UK

_________________________________________________________________
Bag extra points with the Walkers Brit Trip Game=20
http://www.walkersbrittrips.co.uk/game=

--_a5c7cf6d-7d72-41b1-a724-214039e884d1_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<style>
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma
}
</style>
</head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'>
Hey!<br><br>I've written the hardware section of my 'Looping Technology' Ch=
apter and would love some feedback.<br><br>Feedback regarding English Langu=
age is very useful however this will be sorted out with some proof reading =
friends, I know there are a lot of mistakes. <br>What I'm really after is f=
eedback about the content, especially regarding the Echoplex details as I d=
on't actually own one!<br><br>The DRAFT PDF of this part of Chapter 2 is av=
ailable here:<br><br>http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/21/1369511/wrp_ch2=
%28a%29.pdf<br><br>Thanks for all previous advice, especially Rainer for br=
inging my attention to the newer Looping Survey!<br><br>Darren<br>Dartingto=
n College of Arts, Devon UK<br><br /><hr />Get fish-slapping on Messenger <=
a href=3D'http://mobile.uk.msn.com/pc/messenger.aspx ' target=3D'_new'>Play=
 Now</a></body>
</html>=

--_a5c7cf6d-7d72-41b1-a724-214039e884d1_--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 28 11:47:45 2008
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Sell your Protools/MBox and get Logic 8. It literally has everything  
you need. You will need an Interface, but those are affordable these  
days.
My 2 cents
On Apr 28, 2008, at 12:07 AM, fenderbender4@comcast.net wrote:

> Just wanted to say hi.  I joined the mailing list.  I've played  
> guitar for about 6-7 years now and want to start integrating  
> electronic music into stuff that I'm doing.  I was referred here by  
> a member off of the hugeracksinc forum (Thanks).  I'm new to the use  
> of drum machines, synths, etc.
>
> I'm going to be using ProTools and Mbox on a MAC as the recording  
> equipment.  I was wondering if anyone had suggestions as to drum  
> machines and/or synths that they'd recommend for the applications.   
> I'll worry about price later, I just wanted some info to start with  
> to do research.
>
> Some of the music I'm talking about is more recent stuff like Daft  
> Punk, Digitalism, Data, mstrkrft, Nine Inch Nails.
>
> I appreciate the input, and if there is info already on the site,  
> just let me know.  Thanks.
>
> Nate.
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 28 12:01:00 2008
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Glad to see so many people are making good use of the RC-50. :)

I'd be careful with the suggestion "try it out in the shop before you buy it". What I've seen on this forum is that people try it with the wrong settings and then report "horrible latency" or that sort of thing - which is plainly wrong.
Often they set the TEMPO SYNC when they shoulnd't. Some common sense use is often to set:
- SINGLE MODE: no TEMPO SYNC (each PHRASE=loop has it's own tempo)
- MULTI MODE: with TEMPO SYNC
I never use LOOP SYNC at all.

It works really great, but you need to get the basics straight.
Sjaak did a great job for describing some basics on his webpage:
http://home.scarlet.be/gare-d-anvers/sjaak/rc50.htm

Another way I've now started using the RC-50 is for song writing collaboration:
So, a friend of mine prepares some song parts and sends them to me as WAVs. I put them on the RC-50 via USB and play them in SINGLE MODE (again, make sure TEMPO SYNC is off).
When we sit together, we're able to jam and try out the different parts along with the RC-50.
Very productive :)

I also find myself more and more triggering the RC-50 for sketching some new ideas rather than turning on the computer with DAW recording.

Other than that, I mostly use:
- mostly MULTI MODE for solo play or where I set the basic rhythm
- SINGLE MODE when playing freely with other people (free tempo: I just retrigger the loop constantly)


Anyway, have fun!

Buzap

-- 
Psssst! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehört?
Der kann`s mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 28 12:23:16 2008
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Is the Mbox tied to PT, or will it work with Logic?  I've been using  
Logic 8 since its release, and I'm very happy with it.  It's got a few  
glitches here and there that I'm sure will be sorted out anon.

Since the OP needed plugins, that's where Logic is a great fit.  It  
ships with many, many great plugins.  Ultrabeat is about all you could  
ever want in a software drum machine.

Scott

On Apr 28, 2008, at 7:47 AM, Chris Sewell wrote:

> Sell your Protools/MBox and get Logic 8. It literally has everything  
> you need. You will need an Interface, but those are affordable these  
> days.
> My 2 cents
> On Apr 28, 2008, at 12:07 AM, fenderbender4@comcast.net wrote:
>
>> Just wanted to say hi.  I joined the mailing list.  I've played  
>> guitar for about 6-7 years now and want to start integrating  
>> electronic music into stuff that I'm doing.  I was referred here by  
>> a member off of the hugeracksinc forum (Thanks).  I'm new to the  
>> use of drum machines, synths, etc.
>>
>> I'm going to be using ProTools and Mbox on a MAC as the recording  
>> equipment.  I was wondering if anyone had suggestions as to drum  
>> machines and/or synths that they'd recommend for the applications.   
>> I'll worry about price later, I just wanted some info to start with  
>> to do research.
>>
>> Some of the music I'm talking about is more recent stuff like Daft  
>> Punk, Digitalism, Data, mstrkrft, Nine Inch Nails.
>>
>> I appreciate the input, and if there is info already on the site,  
>> just let me know.  Thanks.
>>
>> Nate.
>>
>

--
"Divination is not a method of predicting the future, but a way of  
connecting with higher wisdom and helping one make informed decisions."
- Robert M. Place




From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 28 12:42:15 2008
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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:43:29 -0400
From: Bill Fox <billyfox@soundscapes.us>
Subject: Re: Looping venue help
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Sorry for the late reply but I'm 600 posts behinf on LD...

Chris Sewell wrote:
> Only because we allow it. I say bring back the union.
>
> On Apr 10, 2008, at 4:23 PM, Travis Hartnett wrote:
>> Because live music on the local level doesn't have much monetary 
>> value and supply greatly outstrips demand.
I'm in Local 45 because that's the only way that I would be able to play 
my saxophone in a community concert band.  (Remember high school band?  
Brass, woodwinds, and percussion.)  However, outside of that and the 
professional classical arena (symphony orchestra, et al), the union has 
no power and, it seems, no interest.  The club scene is dismal as a 
result.  The clubs rape musicians and will hire the lowest level of bad 
musicians playing pap drivel to an uneducated crowd that only cares 
about drinking, wriggling their arses, and getting laid.  That is, 
unless they can get a DJ or Karaoke for cheaper.

To those who feel that it's OK to play for free, just remember that when 
you place zero value on the music you make, you also reinforce the 
concept that everyone else's music is worth the same; zero.  You are not 
operating in a vacuum.  What you do affects others and has the potential 
to take away thier choice to place value on not only their own music, 
but on live music and on music in general.  Even if it's only dinner 
(and it had better be a good one that also includes wine or beer to 
boot!), some form of compensation should be required.  With this culture 
of Rip A CD And Share Perfect Copies With Millions, we, as musicians, 
don't need to be doing anything that reinforces the idea that all music 
should be free and that musicians can just go get real jobs if they want 
to eat.  With the economy going in the trash bin and the cost of just 
getting to rehearsals and gigs rising exponentially, we need to act as a 
single community and demand better treatment.

Cheers,

Bill

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 28 13:32:23 2008
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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:32:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: ditch wrestler <ditchwrestler@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Looping philosophy
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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Thanks to my work, I can tell you that this thesis was published as part of an M.Mus. in 1997 by the Univ. of South Florida.
   
  It's not listed with the usual disseration providers (ProQuest & UMI), though, as not all universities submit Master's thesis to these outfits.
   
  Unfortunately, there's no easy copy available; if you've got an access to a university Inter-Library Loan dept., you might be able to loan a copy.
   
   
  Ted H.
   
  

Byron Howell <howell.byron@gmail.com> wrote:
  I found a very old thread in the archives and someone posted who was
exploring music perceptions and was possibly doing a PHD asking the
question "Why do we loop"

His masters thesis was entitled "A Connection Between
Schenkerian Analysis and Godel's Theorem: The Urlinie as Formally
Undecidable." I am fascinated by musical perception, and this notion of
'why we Loop" is no less intriguing.

Ive had a look around and cant find the thesis and the email address is outdated

anyone know where I might find a copy of the thesis (I'm hoping
perhaps the author is still a list member)

Any other research anyone knows about along these lines would be most helpfull?

Byron




"Indeed, naturally I think that a film should have a beginning, middle, and an end — but not necessarily in that order."   Jean Luc Goddard
       
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<div>Thanks to my work, I can tell you that this thesis was published as part of an M.Mus. in 1997 by the Univ. of South Florida.</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>It's not listed with the usual disseration providers (ProQuest &amp; UMI), though, as&nbsp;not all universities submit Master's thesis to these outfits.</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>Unfortunately, there's no easy copy available; if you've got an access to a university Inter-Library Loan dept., you might be able to loan a copy.</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>Ted H.</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div><BR><BR><B><I>Byron Howell &lt;howell.byron@gmail.com&gt;</I></B> wrote:</div>  <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">I found a very old thread in the archives and someone posted who was<BR>exploring music perceptions and was possibly doing a PHD asking the<BR>question "Why do we loop"<BR><BR>His masters thesis was entitled "A Connection
 Between<BR>Schenkerian Analysis and Godel's Theorem: The Urlinie as Formally<BR>Undecidable." I am fascinated by musical perception, and this notion of<BR>'why we Loop" is no less intriguing.<BR><BR>Ive had a look around and cant find the thesis and the email address is outdated<BR><BR>anyone know where I might find a copy of the thesis (I'm hoping<BR>perhaps the author is still a list member)<BR><BR>Any other research anyone knows about along these lines would be most helpfull?<BR><BR>Byron<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>"Indeed, naturally I think that a film should have a beginning, middle, and an end — but not necessarily in that order."   Jean Luc Goddard<p>&#32;

      <hr size=1>Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ "> Try it now.</a>
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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:10:43 +0200
From: "Byron Howell" <howell.byron@gmail.com>
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Great. I do have access to an inter-library loan service. On the other side
of the world so...might cause me some hassle but if thats the only road I'l=
l
check it out. Thanx for the extra info. Any further research been done into
the looping nature of perception?Been exploring the concepts of
self-reference and the feedback loop nature of the world as related to an
anthropologist investigating technology as a phenomenon in music/society
etc...thin thread connecting it to live-looping but such is academia.
Anyway..looking forward to reading your work.

Byron

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 3:32 PM, ditch wrestler <ditchwrestler@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> Thanks to my work, I can tell you that this thesis was published as part
> of an M.Mus. in 1997 by the Univ. of South Florida.
>
> It's not listed with the usual disseration providers (ProQuest & UMI),
> though, as not all universities submit Master's thesis to these outfits.
>
> Unfortunately, there's no easy copy available; if you've got an access to
> a university Inter-Library Loan dept., you might be able to loan a copy.
>
>
> Ted H.
>
>
>
> *Byron Howell <howell.byron@gmail.com>* wrote:
>
> I found a very old thread in the archives and someone posted who was
> exploring music perceptions and was possibly doing a PHD asking the
> question "Why do we loop"
>
> His masters thesis was entitled "A Connection Between
> Schenkerian Analysis and Godel's Theorem: The Urlinie as Formally
> Undecidable." I am fascinated by musical perception, and this notion of
> 'why we Loop" is no less intriguing.
>
> Ive had a look around and cant find the thesis and the email address is
> outdated
>
> anyone know where I might find a copy of the thesis (I'm hoping
> perhaps the author is still a list member)
>
> Any other research anyone knows about along these lines would be most
> helpfull?
>
> Byron
>
>
>
>
> "Indeed, naturally I think that a film should have a beginning, middle,
> and an end =97 but not necessarily in that order." Jean Luc Goddard
>
> ------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it
> now.<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=3D51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=3D=
Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ>
>
>

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Great. I do have access to an inter-library loan service. On the other side=
 of the world so...might cause me some hassle but if thats the only road I&=
#39;ll check it out. Thanx for the extra info. Any further research been do=
ne into the looping nature of perception?<div>
Been exploring the concepts of self-reference and the feedback loop nature =
of the world as related to an anthropologist investigating technology as a =
phenomenon in music/society etc...thin thread connecting it to live-looping=
 but such is academia.</div>
<div>Anyway..looking forward to reading your work.</div><div><br></div><div=
>Byron</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 3:3=
2 PM, ditch wrestler &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ditchwrestler@yahoo.com">ditchwr=
estler@yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div>Thanks to my work, I can tell you that=
 this thesis was published as part of an M.Mus. in 1997 by the Univ. of Sou=
th Florida.</div>
  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>It&#39;s not listed with the usual disseration pr=
oviders (ProQuest &amp; UMI), though, as&nbsp;not all universities submit M=
aster&#39;s thesis to these outfits.</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>Unfortu=
nately, there&#39;s no easy copy available; if you&#39;ve got an access to =
a university Inter-Library Loan dept., you might be able to loan a copy.</d=
iv>
  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>Ted H.</div><div><div></div><d=
iv class=3D"Wj3C7c">  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div><br><br><b><i>Byron Howell &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:howell.byron@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">howell.byron@=
gmail.com</a>&gt;</i></b> wrote:</div>
  <blockquote style=3D"padding-left:5px;margin-left:5px;border-left:#1010ff=
 2px solid">I found a very old thread in the archives and someone posted wh=
o was<br>exploring music perceptions and was possibly doing a PHD asking th=
e<br>
question &quot;Why do we loop&quot;<br><br>His masters thesis was entitled =
&quot;A Connection
 Between<br>Schenkerian Analysis and Godel&#39;s Theorem: The Urlinie as Fo=
rmally<br>Undecidable.&quot; I am fascinated by musical perception, and thi=
s notion of<br>&#39;why we Loop&quot; is no less intriguing.<br><br>Ive had=
 a look around and cant find the thesis and the email address is outdated<b=
r>
<br>anyone know where I might find a copy of the thesis (I&#39;m hoping<br>=
perhaps the author is still a list member)<br><br>Any other research anyone=
 knows about along these lines would be most helpfull?<br><br>Byron<br>
<br></blockquote><br><br><br></div></div>&quot;Indeed, naturally I think th=
at a film should have a beginning, middle, and an end =97 but not necessari=
ly in that order.&quot;   Jean Luc Goddard<p>=20

      </p><hr size=3D"1"><div class=3D"WgoR0d">Be a better friend, newshoun=
d, and=20
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. <a href=3D"http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=3D517=
33/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=3DAhu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ" target=3D=
"_blank"> Try it now.</a></div><p></p></blockquote></div><br></div>

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Subject: Re: Research Paper Chapter 2 Part One DRAFT - Any feedback greatly
 appreciated!
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hi Darren,

Amazed to see an analysis of "Ro-Sham-Bo" there :-)
(thankyou)

So here's the necessary button presses to do that section.

It's rather a strange little technique, only possible in Loop4 because
Matthias Grob(inventor)  gave in to my repeated pleas.


Rather than using Overdub for the 4 beat section I have to

1) Before the 4 beats start I press NextLoop in order to prepare
 the EDP move to Loop no. 2
2) To start the "Overdub" I press and hold Multiply, which causes the EDP to
   start to copy loop1 onto loop2 while overdubbing the new part
3) Then when I release the "Multiply" button, after the 4 beats, loop2 is cut to that         length (an "Unrounded" multiply) and also reverses.
4) Another press of NextLoop to prepare he EDP to go back to loop1
5) Pay the little end phrase and hit "Undo" to bring back loop1 which plays forwards.

This little exercise is called "Reverse Snipplets", because "Snipplets" was our
word for snipping out a short section of loop and repeating it.
It's a neat technique to master, but does require precision timing and
a bit of practise to make it work convincingly.


It's very true what you say about the technology being *played*.
What sets someone like Andre LaFosse apart as a looper is the ability
to somehow work out that a certain combination of foot presses, combined
with simultaneous playing will produce a new (and often startling) result.

It's not unusual for loopers to do strange things with loops, but generally
any "special features" are programmed to respond to a single button press.
Perhaps we might call this the "magic button" :-)
(and of course, the vast majority of loopers rely on their musical skills,
 rather than their "looping chops" ).

So there's 3 different approaches, 

1) Loops are a way to repeat what I just played
2) Loops can do exciting new things when I hit this button here
3) I play the looper like it's part of my instrument, sometimes it's 
   a voyage of discovery.

I'd see a lot of overlap between those 3 ways of doing things, and
I couldn't say any of those methods is going to produce better music than
the others.
...but it's 3) that I find the most compelling, and the EDP would seem to be
the looping device best suited to that approach.

andy butler






  


 

darren perry wrote:
> Hey!

> What I'm really after is feedback about the content, especially 
> regarding the Echoplex details as I don't actually own one!
> 
> The DRAFT PDF of this part of Chapter 2 is available here:
> 
> http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/21/1369511/wrp_ch2%28a%29.pdf

> <http://mobile.uk.msn.com/pc/messenger.aspx >

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 28 14:48:41 2008
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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:48:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: ditch wrestler <ditchwrestler@yahoo.com>
Subject: drummer jokes (was: Chord progressions, Multi Lateral Improvisation...)
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What do you call a drummer without boy/girlfriend?
   
  Homeless.
   
  :-)
   
   
  Ted H,

Scott Kellogg <bassnut@gmail.com> wrote:
  The drummer in one of my bands became so depressed about his inability 
to play on the beat, he threw himself behind a train.

:)

On Apr 27, 2008, at 11:28 PM, Rick Walker wrote:

> Claude Voit wrote:
>
> "Not bad for a drummer !! respect"
>
>
>
> lol......................................
>
>
>
>
>
> question: "How can you tell if a stage is level?"
>
>
>
>
> answer: "The drool comes out of BOTH sides of the drummers' mouth"
>

--
"There is only one music."
- Jonas Hellborg









"Indeed, naturally I think that a film should have a beginning, middle, and an end — but not necessarily in that order."   Jean Luc Goddard
       
---------------------------------
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<div>What do you call a drummer without boy/girlfriend?</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>Homeless.</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>:-)</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>&nbsp;</div>  <div>Ted H,<BR><BR><B><I>Scott Kellogg &lt;bassnut@gmail.com&gt;</I></B> wrote:</div>  <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">The drummer in one of my bands became so depressed about his inability <BR>to play on the beat, he threw himself behind a train.<BR><BR>:)<BR><BR>On Apr 27, 2008, at 11:28 PM, Rick Walker wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Claude Voit wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "Not bad for a drummer !! respect"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; lol......................................<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; question: "How can you tell if a stage is level?"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; answer: "The drool comes out of BOTH sides of the drummers' mouth"<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>--<BR>"There is only one music."<BR>- Jonas
 Hellborg<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>"Indeed, naturally I think that a film should have a beginning, middle, and an end — but not necessarily in that order."   Jean Luc Goddard<p>&#32;



      <hr size=1>Be a better friend, newshound, and 
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Subject: RE: Electribe
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:09:24 +0100
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> if you're talking the greenish sampler-electribe:
> why wouldya wanna use that...?
> i remember painful programming, horrible sound.
> - nice little lightshow though...

I liked the ES-1 so much I bought two of them.=20
the EA-1 & the ER-1, on the other hand, languish in the
unused-pedal-cupboards of my guitarist & drummer respectively.=20

your mileage, as they say.....

I didn't find the sampler too much grief because I bought a memory card
which I filled with pre-cut noises of one stripe or another on a PC.=20

these can then be copied into the onboard memory quite quickly.=20
assign them to a pattern &, whether you use the simple grid-based
pattern editor or not, you have a quick way of accessing half-a-dozen or
so samples by midi PC up the thing's input.=20
so, an ideal companion to a set of drum-pads like the roland spd-11 (or
spd-8, in my case).=20

added to that, you have a midi-controllable gate-effect on incoming
audio, a cheesy but useful selection of basic digital effects (the
ring-mod is a favourite of mine)=20

&=20

the tempo-locked delay, which is worth the price of admission on it's
own (in fact, I have lamented on this very list that this delay effect
with midi clocking & tap-tempo isn't a standalone effect).

as I say, very far from being a piece of shite around here, but once
again, y'r mileage may be less than what I get.

d.



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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 28 15:22:40 2008
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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:22:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: stevenguerrero <mesquamacus@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Looping philosophy
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Who is this anthropologist you speak of? I happen to
have a BA in anthro...intersted in reading this I am.
I'm currently not pursuing anthro further, so... no
need to fear for stolen ideas.

I'm off to google things about it now. Thanks for
giving me something to avoid work with!



--- Byron Howell <howell.byron@gmail.com> wrote:

> ...Been exploring the
> concepts of
> self-reference and the feedback loop nature of the
> world as related to an
> anthropologist investigating technology as a
> phenomenon in music/society
> etc...thin thread connecting it to live-looping but
> such is academia.
> Anyway..looking forward to reading your work.
> 
> Byrono

 
  www.myspace.com/mesqua
  www.reverbnation.com/stevenguerrero



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 28 15:48:44 2008
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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:48:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: scott hansen <evanpeewee@yahoo.com>
Subject: OT: sound to picture meta.../hendrix is jazz?
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wow, i've never heard the hendrix to jazz link. just thought of him as a great r&b singersongwriter-who was way out there for his performances...and i thought a lot of his songs verged on poetry (which i also thought was amazing since he was a HS dropout)...but come to think of it, the "still raining, still dreaming song" off electric lady land was very jazzy sounding, and w/ the horn in it (which sounded good w/ the wah wah).... from interviews w/ hendrix and w/ his woodstock ensemble-it did sound like he was trying to use more colors in his music, explore new options...oh, i guess i should detract my 1st statement, i always loved the instrumental thing from woodstock after star spangled banner, it was the wes M. -type octave chord groove thing, guess that was "jazzy"...

well, the discussion of sound to pictures sounds to me like, a technology thing (out of my league), but many yrs ago when i was still in grad school (MFA-painting...seems like an eternity) i did a VERY BAD research paper for the toughest prof i ever had on the link of visual arts and sound/music...the futurists where a later touchstone (they were the all for technology folks that used the cubist language to emphasize speed & motion), the joke one of my art apprec teachers said about them is they were all for the war (machines and all) and all died in WW1, hence the end of that movement...but the beginnings of the link of art & sound began w/ Wagner, and his:
Gesamtkunstwerk ("total artwork"), the synthesis of all the poetic, visual, musical and dramatic arts (from Wiki-had to look it up b/c i can never remember that german word)

 there was also someone who came up w/ the light organ thing (can't remember date or who-i think i missed that in my paper)...well, anyway, there was rumblings of these ideas in the 1870's-a good 40 yrs before the futurists...there was also the link of composers Schoenberg (& others) who moved toward atonality in music but also explored the visual arts (works looked like the german expressionist stuff of turn of the century-1900's)-and this link of exploring new sounds in music along w/ the exploration of new vocabulary in art (cubism) was also linked to Einstein's theory of relativity (seeing the universe in new light)...oh well, idea was that these ideas where in the air...and again my paper was very bad, although i did get a B on it -which was a miracle-since the prof's notes were longer than my paper! i think he liked that I tried something different and out of the ordinary....
s---
ps-don't forget the lava-screen projections at the fillmores back in the 60's-loved seeing those performances during MTV's closet classics show!! and i think there was projections behind hendrix during his "band of gypsies" 3 night stint at new yrs, 1970...

       
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wow, i've never heard the hendrix to jazz link. just thought of him as a great r&amp;b singersongwriter-who was way out there for his performances...and i thought a lot of his songs verged on poetry (which i also thought was amazing since he was a HS dropout)...but come to think of it, the "still raining, still dreaming song" off electric lady land was very jazzy sounding, and w/ the horn in it (which sounded good w/ the wah wah).... from interviews w/ hendrix and w/ his woodstock ensemble-it did sound like he was trying to use more colors in his music, explore new options...oh, i guess i should detract my 1st statement, i always loved the instrumental thing from woodstock after star spangled banner, it was the wes M. -type octave chord groove thing, guess that was "jazzy"...<br><br>well, the discussion of sound to pictures sounds to me like, a technology thing (out of my league), but many yrs ago when i was still in grad school (MFA-painting...seems like an eternity) i did
 a VERY BAD research paper for the toughest prof i ever had on the link of visual arts and sound/music...the futurists where a later touchstone (they were the all for technology folks that used the cubist language to emphasize speed &amp; motion), the joke one of my art apprec teachers said about them is they were all for the war (machines and all) and all died in WW1, hence the end of that movement...but the beginnings of the link of art &amp; sound began w/ Wagner, and his:<br><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gesamtkunstwerk" title="Gesamtkunstwerk">Gesamtkunstwerk</a></i> ("total artwork"), the synthesis of all the poetic, visual, musical and dramatic arts (from Wiki-had to look it up b/c i can never remember that german word)<br><br>&nbsp;there was also someone who came up w/ the light organ thing (can't remember date or who-i think i missed that in my paper)...well, anyway, there was rumblings of these ideas in the 1870's-a good 40 yrs before the
 futurists...there was also the link of composers Schoenberg (&amp; others) who moved toward atonality in music but also explored the visual arts (works looked like the german expressionist stuff of turn of the century-1900's)-and this link of exploring new sounds in music along w/ the exploration of new vocabulary in art (cubism) was also linked to Einstein's theory of relativity (seeing the universe in new light)...oh well, idea was that these ideas where in the air...and again my paper was very bad, although i did get a B on it -which was a miracle-since the prof's notes were longer than my paper! i think he liked that I tried something different and out of the ordinary....<br>s---<br>ps-don't forget the lava-screen projections at the fillmores back in the 60's-loved seeing those performances during MTV's closet classics show!! and i think there was projections behind hendrix during his "band of gypsies" 3 night stint at new yrs, 1970...<br><p>&#32;

      <hr size=1>Be a better friend, newshound, and 
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From: darren perry <darrencperry@live.com>
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Subject: RE: Research Paper Chapter 2 Part One DRAFT - Any feedback greatly
 appreciated!
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:00:01 +0000
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Thanks for your reply Andy! And thanks for shedding light on your actual me=
thods. I'd be interested to know if the combinations I suggested could achi=
eve the same results, purely in this small section of music...? There are a=
 couple of parts I'm unsure about: a) there's the InsertMode=3DReverse, wou=
ld it work like this? and b) the Undo part...?

It would be nice to be able to keep this section as it is with the addition=
 of 'this is how he actually does it...' but seems I might have to do some =
rewriting.

Darren


> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:41:17 +0100
> From: akbutler@tiscali.co.uk
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: Re: Research Paper Chapter 2 Part One DRAFT - Any feedback great=
ly appreciated!
>
> hi Darren,
>
> Amazed to see an analysis of "Ro-Sham-Bo" there :-)
> (thankyou)
>
> So here's the necessary button presses to do that section.
>
> It's rather a strange little technique, only possible in Loop4 because
> Matthias Grob(inventor) gave in to my repeated pleas.
>
>
> Rather than using Overdub for the 4 beat section I have to
>
> 1) Before the 4 beats start I press NextLoop in order to prepare
> the EDP move to Loop no. 2
> 2) To start the "Overdub" I press and hold Multiply, which causes the EDP=
 to
> start to copy loop1 onto loop2 while overdubbing the new part
> 3) Then when I release the "Multiply" button, after the 4 beats, loop2 is=
 cut to that length (an "Unrounded" multiply) and also reverses.
> 4) Another press of NextLoop to prepare he EDP to go back to loop1
> 5) Pay the little end phrase and hit "Undo" to bring back loop1 which pla=
ys forwards.
>
> This little exercise is called "Reverse Snipplets", because "Snipplets" w=
as our
> word for snipping out a short section of loop and repeating it.
> It's a neat technique to master, but does require precision timing and
> a bit of practise to make it work convincingly.
>
>
> It's very true what you say about the technology being *played*.
> What sets someone like Andre LaFosse apart as a looper is the ability
> to somehow work out that a certain combination of foot presses, combined
> with simultaneous playing will produce a new (and often startling) result=
.
>
> It's not unusual for loopers to do strange things with loops, but general=
ly
> any "special features" are programmed to respond to a single button press=
.
> Perhaps we might call this the "magic button" :-)
> (and of course, the vast majority of loopers rely on their musical skills=
,
> rather than their "looping chops" ).
>
> So there's 3 different approaches,
>
> 1) Loops are a way to repeat what I just played
> 2) Loops can do exciting new things when I hit this button here
> 3) I play the looper like it's part of my instrument, sometimes it's
> a voyage of discovery.
>
> I'd see a lot of overlap between those 3 ways of doing things, and
> I couldn't say any of those methods is going to produce better music than
> the others.
> ...but it's 3) that I find the most compelling, and the EDP would seem to=
 be
> the looping device best suited to that approach.
>
> andy butler
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> darren perry wrote:
>> Hey!
>
>> What I'm really after is feedback about the content, especially
>> regarding the Echoplex details as I don't actually own one!
>>
>> The DRAFT PDF of this part of Chapter 2 is available here:
>>
>> http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/21/1369511/wrp_ch2%28a%29.pdf
>
>>=20
>

_________________________________________________________________
Play the Andrex Hello Softie Game & win great prizes=20
http://www.thehellosoftiegame.co.uk=

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From: "Aaron Leese" <aaronleese@flyloops.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: drummer jokes (was: Chord progressions, Multi Lateral Improvisation...)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 09:34:01 -0700
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=20

=20

What do you call a guy that hangs around with musicians all day =85..

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

=20

.

.

.

The drummer

=20

=20

=20

=20

   _____ =20

From: ditch wrestler [mailto:ditchwrestler@yahoo.com]=20
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 7:49 AM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: drummer jokes (was: Chord progressions, Multi Lateral
Improvisation...)

=20

What do you call a drummer without boy/girlfriend?

=20

Homeless.

=20

:-)

=20

=20

Ted H,

Scott Kellogg <bassnut@gmail.com> wrote:

The drummer in one of my bands became so depressed about his inability=20
to play on the beat, he threw himself behind a train.

:)

On Apr 27, 2008, at 11:28 PM, Rick Walker wrote:

> Claude Voit wrote:
>
> "Not bad for a drummer !! respect"
>
>
>
> lol......................................
>
>
>
>
>
> question: "How can you tell if a stage is level?"
>
>
>
>
> answer: "The drool comes out of BOTH sides of the drummers' mouth"
>

--
"There is only one music."
- Jonas Hellborg










"Indeed, naturally I think that a film should have a beginning, middle, =
and
an end =97 but not necessarily in that order." Jean Luc Goddard

 =20

   _____ =20

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. =
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"http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=3D51733/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=3DAhu06=
i62sR8H
DtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20"Try it now.

--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.16.4/1146 - Release Date: =
11/22/2007
6:55 PM


--=20
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.16.4/1146 - Release Date: =
11/22/2007
6:55 PM
=20

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>What do you call a guy that hangs =
around
with musicians all day &#8230;..<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
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10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
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10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The =
drummer<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
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<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> ditch =
wrestler
[mailto:ditchwrestler@yahoo.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, April 28, =
2008 7:49
AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> drummer jokes =
(was: Chord
progressions, Multi Lateral =
Improvisation...)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
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<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>What do you call a drummer without =
boy/girlfriend?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
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<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Homeless.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
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</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>:-)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Ted H,<br>
<br>
<b><i><span style=3D'font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Scott Kellogg
&lt;bassnut@gmail.com&gt;</span></i></b> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>The drummer in =
one of my
bands became so depressed about his inability <br>
to play on the beat, he threw himself behind a train.<br>
<br>
:)<br>
<br>
On Apr 27, 2008, at 11:28 PM, Rick Walker wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; Claude Voit wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &quot;Not bad for a drummer !! respect&quot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; lol......................................<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; question: &quot;How can you tell if a stage is level?&quot;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; answer: &quot;The drool comes out of BOTH sides of the drummers'
mouth&quot;<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
--<br>
&quot;There is only one music.&quot;<br>
- Jonas Hellborg<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</blockquote>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<br>
&quot;Indeed, naturally I think that a film should have a beginning, =
middle,
and an end &#8212; but not necessarily in that order.&quot; Jean Luc =
Goddard<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D1 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! =
Mobile. <a
href=3D"http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=3D51733/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=3D=
Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20">Try
it now.</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>--<br>
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.<br>
Checked by AVG Free Edition.<br>
Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.16.4/1146 - Release Date: =
11/22/2007
6:55 PM</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>--<BR>
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.<BR>
Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>
Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.16.4/1146 - Release Date: =
11/22/2007 6:55 PM<BR>
</FONT> </P>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 28 16:44:48 2008
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Subject: Passac UnityEight
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 09:42:52 -0700
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I'm going to be moving soon from the Santa Cruz area to Seattle and as  
I review my equipment, one thing leapt out at me as needing to be sold  
and being cheap enough relative to its weight that shipping would be  
of dubious value...

I've got a Passac UnityEight line mixer. One rack space.  Eight  
channels. Two effects sends (that's the big win). Looking at the back  
of it, it looks like the effects sends are actually stereo -- it's  
been a couple of years since I rearranged my rig to go to a Mackie  
1202 so I don't remember.

I'm thinking $50.

I'm in Scotts Valley but could easily meet up anywhere in Santa Cruz  
or the south bay. If someone wanted me to bring it up to Seattle that  
would also work.

Mark

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Apr 28 16:57:22 2008
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darren perry wrote:
> Thanks for your reply Andy! And thanks for shedding light on your actual methods. I'd be interested to know if the combinations I suggested could achieve the same results, 
>purely in this small section of music...? 

'fraid not

It would make real sense if Undo worked in that intuitive way,
but with the EDP it doesn't.
Maybe in the future someone will make a looper that works that way.

>There are a couple of parts I'm unsure about: a) there's the InsertMode=Reverse, would it work like this? 

A lot of EDP "states" have alternate endings, so you're not that far off tack.
Indeed, in Loop3 if you used Reverse as an ending to Multiply you could cut the loop 
in the same way.

Then in Loop4 the alternate endings became more sophisticated, so a Multiply
which was ended by an alternate method would still be rounded 
(the cycle length would remain the same).

..but to get back to the point, Overdub does not have alternate endings, if you hit
Reverse (using the InsertMode=Reverse or otherwise) you just keep on overdubbing over
the Reversed loop. 


>and b) the Undo part...?

Again this is not possible, Undo never changes the length of the loop.
(and Undo doesn't work on a loop after it's reversed)
Once you cut a loop into a snipplet you've changed the cycle length,
so there's no quick way "back".
That's why I copy to loop2, allowing the original loop to remain intact.

> 
> It would be nice to be able to keep this section as it is with the addition of 'this is how he actually does it...' but seems I might have to do some rewriting.

Well, the musical analysis part was spot on,
I hadn't even realized that the last repeat of the reversed loop only ran for 3 beats.

best regards

andy butler

> 
> Darren
> 
> 
>> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:41:17 +0100
>> From: akbutler@tiscali.co.uk
>> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>> Subject: Re: Research Paper Chapter 2 Part One DRAFT - Any feedback greatly appreciated!
>>
>> hi Darren,
>>
>> Amazed to see an analysis of "Ro-Sham-Bo" there :-)
>> (thankyou)

>>>
>>> The DRAFT PDF of this part of Chapter 2 is available here:
>>>
>>> http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/21/1369511/wrp_ch2%28a%29.pdf
> 
> _________________________________________________________________

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Hi everybody, not to be one of those kind of people who are off-list  
forever and then re-subscribe to post a gig spam, but yeah.  Sorry.   
I'll stay on for a while, I promise.

Anyways, I'm Armatronix, and I do this live looping thing with drum  
machines and synths and turntables and effects and stuff, and I'm  
going to be playing tonight at Kingman's Ivy Room, 680 San Pedro in  
Albany.

I'll also be backing my good friend Colin Jones on some dance and hip- 
hop shit, and doing some vocal warpage and glitch/chopping with EDP  
and delays.

Fognozzle will open with this sweet toy instrument noise thing that he  
does.

Anyways, I figured some of my Bay Area friends might want to know.  If  
you come and say you're from Looper's Delight, I'll buy you a  
delicious glass of whiskey [Kim].

Hope to see you there,
-Hans

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 02:38:05 2008
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From: stanitarium@earthlink.net
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Subject: Re: GIG SPAM - Armatronix tonight at the Ivy Room in Albany, CA
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DAMN Hans-long tyme NoHear-
sorry to hear about this @ such a late date-hope you kick some ass there!
big fan of the ARMATRONIX-came down early one year for >LOOPSTOCK< and caught yer gig out @ that bar in LosOsos-you kicked that nite and have missed you since...
wottupp?
please keep in touch on this list
staninsanfran

-----Original Message-----
>From: Email <hansiphone@gmail.com>
>Sent: Apr 28, 2008 5:20 PM
>To: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
>Subject: GIG SPAM - Armatronix tonight at the Ivy Room in Albany, CA
>
>Hi everybody, not to be one of those kind of people who are off-list  
>forever and then re-subscribe to post a gig spam, but yeah.  Sorry.   
>I'll stay on for a while, I promise.
>
>Anyways, I'm Armatronix, and I do this live looping thing with drum  
>machines and synths and turntables and effects and stuff, and I'm  
>going to be playing tonight at Kingman's Ivy Room, 680 San Pedro in  
>Albany.
>
>I'll also be backing my good friend Colin Jones on some dance and hip- 
>hop shit, and doing some vocal warpage and glitch/chopping with EDP  
>and delays.
>
>Fognozzle will open with this sweet toy instrument noise thing that he  
>does.
>
>Anyways, I figured some of my Bay Area friends might want to know.  If  
>you come and say you're from Looper's Delight, I'll buy you a  
>delicious glass of whiskey [Kim].
>
>Hope to see you there,
>-Hans
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 03:28:04 2008
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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 20:28:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: "L.A. Angulo" <labaloops@yahoo.com>
Subject: timefactor and fcb1010 question
To: Loopers Delight <loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com>
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Hi Gang,
I am trying to set the TF tap tempo feature with my
fcb1010,it is working but not like the tap switch on
the TF itself,it seems to be sending the wrong beat
tempo,anybody using this two?
cheers
Luis

www.myspace.com/luisangulocom


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 05:37:47 2008
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From: "William Walker" <billwalker@baymoon.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: drummer jokes (was: Chord progressions, Multi Lateral Improvisation...)
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 22:37:41 -0700
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Why did the drummer leave his sticks on the dashboard of his car?

 

 

So he could park in the handicapped  zone!

 

 

 


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
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of his
car?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
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&nbsp;zone!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 07:06:41 2008
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Subject: Re: drummer jokes (was: Chord progressions, Multi Lateral Improvisation...)
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why do bands have bass players? to translate for the drummer.

On Apr 29, 2008, at 7:37 AM, William Walker wrote:

> Why did the drummer leave his sticks on the dashboard of his car?
>
>
> So he could park in the handicapped  zone!
>
>
>


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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">why do bands have bass players? =
to translate for the drummer.<div><br><div><div>On Apr 29, 2008, at 7:37 =
AM, William Walker wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Goudy Old Style'; font-size: 16px; =
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face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; =
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"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></div></div></div></span></blockquote></d=
iv><br></div></body></html>=

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 07:28:14 2008
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how do you know when it's a drummer at the door?





.. the knocking keeps getting faster


  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: doc rossi=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:06 AM
  Subject: Re: drummer jokes (was: Chord progressions, Multi Lateral =
Improvisation...)


  why do bands have bass players? to translate for the drummer.


  On Apr 29, 2008, at 7:37 AM, William Walker wrote:


    Why did the drummer leave his sticks on the dashboard of his car?


    So he could park in the handicapped  zone!







-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----


  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG.=20
  Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1401 - Release Date: =
4/28/2008 7:18 AM

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>how do you know when it's a drummer at =
the=20
door?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>.. the knocking keeps getting =
faster</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Ddocittern@gmail.com href=3D"mailto:docittern@gmail.com">doc =
rossi</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 29, 2008 =
8:06=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: drummer jokes =
(was: Chord=20
  progressions, Multi Lateral Improvisation...)</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>why do bands have bass players? to translate for the =
drummer.
  <DIV><BR>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>On Apr 29, 2008, at 7:37 AM, William Walker wrote:</DIV><BR=20
  class=3DApple-interchange-newline>
  <BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span=20
    style=3D"WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 16px 'Goudy Old Style'; =
TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: =
normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; =
widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0">
    <DIV lang=3DEN-US vlink=3D"purple" link=3D"blue">
    <DIV class=3DSection1>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times =
New Roman'"><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Why did=20
    the drummer leave his sticks on the dashboard of his=20
    car?<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times =
New Roman'"><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times =
New Roman'"><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times =
New Roman'"><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">So he=20
    could park in the handicapped =
&nbsp;zone!<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times =
New Roman'"><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times =
New Roman'"><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times =
New Roman'"><FONT=20
    face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></D=
IV><BR></DIV>
  <P>
  <HR>

  <P></P>No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>Checked by AVG.=20
  <BR>Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1401 - Release Date: =
4/28/2008=20
  7:18 AM<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_001A_01C8A9D2.F48E4550--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 07:37:34 2008
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Subject: Re: drummer jokes (was: Chord progressions, Multi Lateral Improvisation...)
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:37:22 -0700
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Q. Did you hear about the bass player who locked his keys in the car?


A.He had to break the car window to get the drummer out.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 09:26:32 2008
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--------------070007000304030301020800
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear friends,

I'd like to invite you to visit my just completed
new web presence with lots of live looping at

http://www.myspace.com/christianrover

Stop by, listen in or become a friend if you like ;-)

All the best,

Christian Rover


chrisrover@aol.com
www.christianrover.com
(major update in June)

--------------070007000304030301020800
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<big>Dear friends,
<br>
<br>
I'd like to invite you to visit my just completed
<br>
new web presence with lots of live looping at
<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"   href="http://www.myspace.com/christianrover">http://www.myspace.com/christianrover</a>
<br>
<br>
Stop by, listen in or become a friend if you like ;-)
<br>
<br>
All the best,
<br>
<br>
Christian Rover
<br>
<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:chrisrover@aol.com">chrisrover@aol.com</a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.christianrover.com">www.christianrover.com</a>
<br>
(major update in June)
</big>
</body>
</html>

--------------070007000304030301020800--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 10:12:18 2008
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Subject: RE: drummer jokes (was: Chord progressions, Multi Lateral Improvisation...)
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C8A9E1.7FF5AD6A
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.....with a drum machine you only have to punch the part in once.
=20
.....the drool comes out both sides of his mouth. (riser)
=20
.....one, two, three, four! (light-bulb)
=20
& so on. I think it's time we had some lead guitarist jokes. they're all
wankers, after all. :-)
=20
d.

________________________________

From: doc rossi [mailto:docittern@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:07 AM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: drummer jokes (was: Chord progressions, Multi Lateral
Improvisation...)


why do bands have bass players? to translate for the drummer.=20

On Apr 29, 2008, at 7:37 AM, William Walker wrote:


=09
	Why did the drummer leave his sticks on the dashboard of his
car?
=09
=09
	So he could park in the handicapped  zone!
=09
=09
=09





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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3314" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY=20
style=3D"WORD-WRAP: break-word; webkit-nbsp-mode: space; webkit-line-break:=
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<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medium"=20
color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D770420910-29042008>....with a drum machine yo=
u only=20
have to punch the part in once.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medium"=20
color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D770420910-29042008></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medium"=20
color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D770420910-29042008>.....the drool comes out b=
oth sides=20
of his mouth. (riser)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medium"=20
color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D770420910-29042008></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medium"=20
color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D770420910-29042008>.....one, two, three, four=
!=20
(light-bulb)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medium"=20
color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D770420910-29042008></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medium"=20
color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D770420910-29042008>&amp; so on. I think it's =
time we=20
had some lead guitarist jokes. they're all wankers, after all.=20
:-)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medium"=20
color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D770420910-29042008></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"AmericanTypewriter Medium"=20
color=3D#0000ff><SPAN class=3D770420910-29042008>d.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> doc rossi [mailto:docittern@gmail=
.com]=20
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:07 AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: drummer jokes (w=
as:=20
Chord progressions, Multi Lateral Improvisation...)<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>why do bands have bass players? to translate for the drummer.
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Apr 29, 2008, at 7:37 AM, William Walker wrote:</DIV><BR=20
class=3DApple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><SPAN class=3DApple-style-span=20
  style=3D"WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 16px 'Goudy Old Style'; TEXT-TRANSFORM:=
 none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPA=
CING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; webkit-bord=
er-horizontal-spacing: 0px; webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; webkit-tex=
t-decorations-in-effect: none; webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; webkit-text-s=
troke-width: 0">
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  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Ro=
man'"><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"=
>Why did=20
  the drummer leave his sticks on the dashboard of his=20
  car?<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Ro=
man'"><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></=
DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Ro=
man'"><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></=
DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Ro=
man'"><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"=
>So he=20
  could park in the handicapped &nbsp;zone!<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Ro=
man'"><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></=
DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Ro=
man'"><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></=
DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Ro=
man'"><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></=
DIV></DIV></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV><pre>


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Communicating by email is not 100% secure and carries risks such as delay,=20
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MTV Networks International, MTV Networks UK &amp; Ireland, Greenhouse,=20
Nickelodeon Viacom Consumer Products, VBSi, Viacom Brand Solutions=20
International and Comedy Central are all trading names of MTV Networks=20
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is UK House, 180 Oxford Street, London W1D 1DS, UK.
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 10:30:18 2008
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Subject: Re: RE: drummer jokes (was: Chord progressions, Multi Lateral Improvisation...)
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I liked this one

Q: How do you get a lead guitarist to turn down? 
A: Put some sheet music in front of him. 

Works on me, anyway! :)


> 
> From: "Goddard, Duncan" <goddard.duncan@mtvne.com>
> Date: 2008/04/29 Tue AM 11:12:04 BST
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Subject: RE: drummer jokes (was: Chord progressions, Multi Lateral Improvisation...)
> 
> .....with a drum machine you only have to punch the part in once.
>  
> .....the drool comes out both sides of his mouth. (riser)
>  
> .....one, two, three, four! (light-bulb)
>  
> & so on. I think it's time we had some lead guitarist jokes. they're all
> wankers, after all. :-)
>  
> d.
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: doc rossi [mailto:docittern@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:07 AM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: Re: drummer jokes (was: Chord progressions, Multi Lateral
> Improvisation...)
> 
> 
> why do bands have bass players? to translate for the drummer. 
> 
> On Apr 29, 2008, at 7:37 AM, William Walker wrote:
> 
> 
> 	
> 	Why did the drummer leave his sticks on the dashboard of his
> car?
> 	
> 	
> 	So he could park in the handicapped  zone!
> 	
> 	
> 	
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
> 
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 11:08:46 2008
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From: "Buzap Buzap" <buzap@gmx.net>
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Subject: Pan Volume Pedal for Stereo Looping
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Hi guys

seems like I've found _exactly_ what I've been looking for:

https://store.ernieball.com/product/part_number=P06165/574.0.23625.0.0.0.0

With my RC-50, it would be really sweet to be able to pan the (mono) input into a stereo loop with a pedal.

So the Ernie Ball Pan Volume Pedal seems to do exactly this.
The only question is: 
Will it be ok with my input/output levels for all sorts of instruments?
It says that it is suited only for "passive instruments" like guitar (hah! ;-) but I'd like to use it also with MIC signal (amped and routed thru fx).
Would that work?

Ernie Ball Stereo / Pan Volume Pedal:
The dual potentiometer has a 500k ohm resistance suitable for the audio path of passive or active instruments. Attached to the footplate is a switch that provides the user two operating modes (volume or pan). Use the A input / A output for the left channel and the B input / B output for the right channel for stereo signals. For use with stereo cable installations using TRS type stereo plugs, use the B input and B output. For use as a mono volume pedal, use the A input and A output. For use as a typical pan pedal, switch the toe tap switch to the pan position and use only the A input. The pedal will pan the signal between the A and B outputs. Overall Volume Pedal dimensions: 4" W x 11" L x 2 3/4" H.

Buzap
-- 
GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen!
Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/?mc=sv_ext_mf@gmx

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 11:09:26 2008
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Bwaa haa haa!  As a bassist myself, I'll be telling this one!

On Apr 29, 2008, at 3:37 AM, Bob Amstadt wrote:

> Q. Did you hear about the bass player who locked his keys in the car?
>
>
> A.He had to break the car window to get the drummer out.
>

--
"There is only one music."
- Jonas Hellborg






From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 12:00:14 2008
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From: Bill Fox <billyfox@soundscapes.us>
Subject: Musician jokes
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Jay Bell wrote:
> how do you know when it's a drummer at the door?
> .. the knocking keeps getting faster
How do you know when a soprano is at the door?
She doesn't know when to come in.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 12:59:44 2008
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How do you get a guitar player to stop playing?

Put a chart in front of him. 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 13:00:56 2008
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How do you get a guitar player off your front porch?

Pay for the Pizza. 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 13:04:04 2008
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How do you get a Looper to stop How do you get a Looper to stop How do  
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to stop How do you get a Looper to stop How do you get a Looper to  
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to stop How do you get a Looper to stop How do you get a Looper to  
stop How do you get a Looper to stop How do you get a Looper to stop


Press Stop

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 13:06:08 2008
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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:07:03 -0400
From: Bill Fox <billyfox@soundscapes.us>
Subject: Musician Jokes
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Goddard, Duncan wrote:
> & so on. I think it's time we had some lead guitarist jokes. they're 
> all wankers, after all. :-)
How many guitarists does it take to screw in a light bulb?
Five.  One to handle the bulb and four to talk about how they could have 
done it better.

How do you get a guitar player to turn down his amp?
By putting music in front of him.

Glad to oblige.

What's the difference between a saxophone and a lawn mower?
A1. You can tune a lawn mower.
A2. Vibrato.  (I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to decide 
which one has it.)

Cheers,

Bill (sax, guitar, bass, keys)

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D7oPXRWRxda8


I had to share this. It seems to me that alot of topics from this list =
are touched on.
Not a loop in sight though.

peace,
             Jeff
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16587" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D7oPXRWRxda8">http://www.youtube.=
com/watch?v=3D7oPXRWRxda8</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I had to share this. </FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>It seems to me that alot of topics from this list are touched=20
on.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Not a loop in sight =
though.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>peace,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;=20
Jeff</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 13:09:30 2008
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Subject: Re: Various music jokes
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q: What do you call two theremins playing the same note?
a: A major third.

q: Why did Johann Sebastian Bach have 19 kids?
a: He had no stops on his organ.

q: What do you get if you drop a grand piano down a mine shaft?
a: A flat miner.

q: What is the difference between an oboe and a bassoon?
a: The bassoon burns longer.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 13:13:36 2008
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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:13:34 -0400
From: "Tony K" <bigtonyk@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: drummer jokes (was: Chord progressions, Multi Lateral Improvisation...)
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Q: What do you call two guitarists trying to play in unison?

A: Counterpoint.

---


Q: What's the difference between a guitar player and a certificate of deposit?

A: The CD will eventually mature and make money.

----

Mommy mommy, when I grow up I want to be a guitar player.

I'm sorry honey, you can't do both.

----
Tony


On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 7:09 AM, Scott Kellogg <bassnut@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bwaa haa haa!  As a bassist myself, I'll be telling this one!
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 29, 2008, at 3:37 AM, Bob Amstadt wrote:
>
>
> > Q. Did you hear about the bass player who locked his keys in the car?
> >
> >
> > A.He had to break the car window to get the drummer out.
> >
> >
>
> --
> "There is only one music."
> - Jonas Hellborg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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How do you get a pianist to stop playing?

Take the chart away.

-- 
Mark Smart
http://cdbaby.com/cd/marksmart
http://www.marksmart.net

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How do you get a pianist to stop playing?<br><br>Take the chart away.<br><br>-- <br>Mark Smart<br><a href="http://cdbaby.com/cd/marksmart">http://cdbaby.com/cd/marksmart</a><br><a href="http://www.marksmart.net">http://www.marksmart.net</a>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 13:34:51 2008
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At 9:07 AM -0500 4/29/08, Jeff Duke wrote:
><http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oPXRWRxda8>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oPXRWRxda8
>
>I had to share this. It seems to me that alot of topics from this 
>list are touched on.
>Not a loop in sight though.

Oh man, I dig the music, but I had to turn the video off.  My wife 
was on the other side of the room screaming, and I quote: "Good God, 
if this guy gets any more pompous, I'm going to have to hunt him down 
just so I can pull his own head out of his ass."

Yeah, she's really good to have around for reality checks.  ;)

I did take a look at some of his other YouTube videos, however.  The 
guy's a pretty amazing performer.

	--m.

-- 
_____
"bye-bye empire; empire, bye-bye"

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 13:40:26 2008
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Quoting Chris Sewell <lunamusic@mac.com>:
>
> How do you get a Looper to stop How do you get a Looper to stop How do
> you get a Looper to stop How do you get a Looper to stop How do you get
> a Looper to stop How do you get a Looper to stop...
>
Good one, Chris.

q: How many layers can I overdub before the sound gets too thick?
a: One less than I recorded.

The law of theremin looping:

The probability of hitting a bad pitch is directly proportional to the  
feedback level of the loop.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 14:15:15 2008
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From: Teddy Kumpel <teddybut@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Pan Volume Pedal for Stereo Looping
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:15:18 -0400
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I plug my mic, cb mic and keyboard into this... and then right into  
the RC-50

http://www.rolls.com/data/mx56man.pdf

and into my RC-50 from there... no problems... so, you'll probably  
need something with a mic preamp to do what you want to do, but once  
it's in "line out" impedance, i.e. -10db, you can do anything with it  
into the RC-50. The mic preamp on the RC-50 is not pannable, which  
kind of renders it useless for me.

teddy

On Apr 29, 2008, at 7:08 AM, Buzap Buzap wrote:

> Hi guys
>
> seems like I've found _exactly_ what I've been looking for:
>
> https://store.ernieball.com/product/ 
> part_number=P06165/574.0.23625.0.0.0.0
>
> With my RC-50, it would be really sweet to be able to pan the  
> (mono) input into a stereo loop with a pedal.
>
> So the Ernie Ball Pan Volume Pedal seems to do exactly this.
> The only question is:
> Will it be ok with my input/output levels for all sorts of  
> instruments?
> It says that it is suited only for "passive instruments" like  
> guitar (hah! ;-) but I'd like to use it also with MIC signal (amped  
> and routed thru fx).
> Would that work?
>
> Buzap

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From: Teddy Kumpel <teddybut@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Musician jokes
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:16:16 -0400
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I believe the proper punch line is "she can't find the key and  
doesn't know when to come in" actually...

teddy

On Apr 29, 2008, at 8:01 AM, Bill Fox wrote:

> Jay Bell wrote:
>> how do you know when it's a drummer at the door?
>> .. the knocking keeps getting faster
> How do you know when a soprano is at the door?
> She doesn't know when to come in.

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From: Teddy Kumpel <teddybut@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Musician Jokes
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:20:55 -0400
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ok... I will submit...

Q: what's do bass solos and premature ejaculation have in common?
A: you know they're coming but you can't do anything about it

Teddy

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 14:21:12 2008
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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:20:48 -0400
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Charles Zwicky <cazwicky@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Musician jokes
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Sombody had to say it.. thanks, Teddy.

>I believe the proper punch line is "she can't find the key and 
>doesn't know when to come in" actually...
>
>teddy
>
>On Apr 29, 2008, at 8:01 AM, Bill Fox wrote:
>
>>Jay Bell wrote:
>>>how do you know when it's a drummer at the door?
>>>.. the knocking keeps getting faster
>>How do you know when a soprano is at the door?
>>She doesn't know when to come in.


-- 
...
http://www.zmix.net

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 14:23:32 2008
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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:24:35 -0400
From: Bill Fox <billyfox@soundscapes.us>
Subject: Re: AW: Announcing electro-music 2008
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On Loopers Delight, Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill wrote:
>> I thought that many of you might be interested in this announcement.
>> Bill
>>     
> Hilarious, Bill! Thanks for that good laugh:
>   
>> Note that since this is a community event rather than a 
>> commercial event, all participants are required to purchase 
>> tickets for the event.
>>     
Glad to make your day brighter with some laughter.  By the way, this 
isn't a concert, although there will be performances.  It's not 
entertainment, although you're free to be entertained.  There's lots to 
see and hear and do and cool people to meet.  People come from all over 
the US and Europe to attend... repeatedly.  Are they stupid for having 
the wool pulled over their eyes or are they hip to a too cool event?  
Only you can decide that for yourself.  This might help:
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnMytr4lpxY>

Cheers,

Bill

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 14:47:20 2008
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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:47:18 -0400
From: "Dennis Moser" <sinsofmachaut@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: AW: Announcing electro-music 2008
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Bill,

I, for one, hope to catch up with you and Greg and meet Howard ... so
I hope I will be there.

Best,

Dennis

On 4/29/08, Bill Fox <billyfox@soundscapes.us> wrote:
> On Loopers Delight, Rainer Thelonius Balthasar Straschill wrote:
>
> >
> > > I thought that many of you might be interested in this announcement.
> > > Bill
> > >
> > >
> > Hilarious, Bill! Thanks for that good laugh:
> >
> >
> > > Note that since this is a community event rather than a commercial
> event, all participants are required to purchase tickets for the event.
> > >
> > >
> >
>  Glad to make your day brighter with some laughter.  By the way, this isn't
> a concert, although there will be performances.  It's not entertainment,
> although you're free to be entertained.  There's lots to see and hear and do
> and cool people to meet.  People come from all over the US and Europe to
> attend... repeatedly.  Are they stupid for having the wool pulled over their
> eyes or are they hip to a too cool event?  Only you can decide that for
> yourself.  This might help:
>  <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnMytr4lpxY>
>
>  Cheers,
>
>  Bill
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 15:30:47 2008
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Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 00:28:53 +0900
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From: Sunao Inami <webmaster@cavestudio.com>
Subject: OT: New Release "Sunao Inami / Laid Back Computing"
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Hi LD,

Sorry for off topic.
my new release information.

"Sunao Inami / Laid Back Computing"
http://shop.cavestudio.org/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/533

title: Laid Back Computing
artist: Sunao Inami

label: electr-ohm
www.electr-ohm.com
product number: TCCD-20082
release date: 21st April 2008

Sunao's new studio recording stuff out now!
The complicate elements re-constructed to newer beats.
Cut upped abstract grains re-constructed to newer rhythm.
High knowledge of DSP based sound design process with analog modular synthesis.
Complex music, but very original.
No drum alternative grooves through the cut up breaks with dark electro.

Genre:
Dark Electro / Industrial / Rhythmic Noise

11tracks,62 mins
1000 copies ltd. CD only.
Made in Japan

Details:
  http://www.electr-ohm.com/en/label.html

  Thanks

  Sunao Inami
http://www.myspace.com/sunao

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 15:39:14 2008
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Subject: Re: Pan Volume Pedal for Stereo Looping
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Hi Teddy

I already have various mixers (and mini-mixers) for this purpose.

The compeeling idea about the Ernie Ball Pan Volume Pedal was to be able to pan with my foot (esp. useful when playing keyboard or harmonica etc.).
I was just curious if a pre-amped MIC / fx / keyboard signal would be ok because Ernie Ball page stated it's for panning "passive instruments" (whatever that is...).

Thanks
Buzap

-- 
Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! 
Ideal für Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 15:41:53 2008
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--_b7d28e9e-f34b-4920-ac3f-f19d169f8a06_
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Q. How many guitar players does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A. 3 --One to screw it in and 2 to say "I could do that"
=20
Knock Knock
Who's there?
Knock knock knockknock
Who's there?
Knockknockknockknockknockknockknockknockknock
Steve Reich.> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:20:48 -0400> To: Loopers-Delight@lo=
opers-delight.com> From: cazwicky@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Musician joke=
s> > Sombody had to say it.. thanks, Teddy.> > >I believe the proper punch =
line is "she can't find the key and > >doesn't know when to come in" actual=
ly...> >> >teddy> >> >On Apr 29, 2008, at 8:01 AM, Bill Fox wrote:> >> >>Ja=
y Bell wrote:> >>>how do you know when it's a drummer at the door?> >>>.. t=
he knocking keeps getting faster> >>How do you know when a soprano is at th=
e door?> >>She doesn't know when to come in.> > > -- > ...> http://www.zmix=
.net>=20
_________________________________________________________________
Spell a grand slam in this game where word skill meets World Series. Get in=
 the game.
http://club.live.com/word_slugger.aspx?icid=3Dword_slugger_wlhm_admod_april=
08=

--_b7d28e9e-f34b-4920-ac3f-f19d169f8a06_
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<html>
<head>
<style>
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma
}
</style>
</head>
<body class=3D'hmmessage'>
Q. How many guitar players does it take to screw in a lightbulb?<BR>
A. 3 --One to screw it in and 2 to say "I could do that"<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
Knock Knock<BR>
Who's there?<BR>
Knock knock knockknock<BR>
Who's there?<BR>
Knockknockknockknockknockknockknockknockknock<BR>
Steve Reich.<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:20:48 -0400<BR>&gt; To: =
Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<BR>&gt; From: cazwicky@earthlink.net<BR=
>&gt; Subject: Re: Musician jokes<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Sombody had to say it.. =
thanks, Teddy.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;I believe the proper punch line is "she=
 can't find the key and <BR>&gt; &gt;doesn't know when to come in" actually=
...<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;teddy<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;On Apr 29, 2008=
, at 8:01 AM, Bill Fox wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Jay Bell wrote:<=
BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;how do you know when it's a drummer at the door?<BR>&gt=
; &gt;&gt;&gt;.. the knocking keeps getting faster<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;How do y=
ou know when a soprano is at the door?<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;She doesn't know whe=
n to come in.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt; ...<BR>&gt; http://www.=
zmix.net<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><br /><hr />Spell a grand slam in this game where =
word skill meets World Series. <a href=3D'http://club.live.com/word_slugger=
.aspx?icid=3Dword_slugger_wlhm_admod_april08' target=3D'_new'>Get in the ga=
me.</a></body>
</html>=

--_b7d28e9e-f34b-4920-ac3f-f19d169f8a06_--

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I've deleted the others too fast (AHW!) so I don't know if you already had this:

Q: What does a looping artist do when he wins a million dollars in the lottery?
A: He keeps on playing gigs until he runs out of money :))


Buzap
-- 
Psst! Geheimtipp: Online Games kostenlos spielen bei den GMX Free Games! 
http://games.entertainment.gmx.net/de/entertainment/games/free

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 15:46:50 2008
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Subject: Re: Musician jokes
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:46:44 -0400
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They say a jazz player knows a million notes and plays three, and the  
rock player plays a million and knows three :)

I play rock and jazz so I guess I'm dissing myself twice!

Scott

On Apr 29, 2008, at 11:41 AM, Jeremy devros wrote:

> Q. How many guitar players does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
> A. 3 --One to screw it in and 2 to say "I could do that"
>
> Knock Knock
> Who's there?
> Knock knock knockknock
> Who's there?
> Knockknockknockknockknockknockknockknockknock
> Steve Reich.
>
> > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:20:48 -0400
> > To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> > From: cazwicky@earthlink.net
> > Subject: Re: Musician jokes
> >
> > Sombody had to say it.. thanks, Teddy.
> >
> > >I believe the proper punch line is "she can't find the key and
> > >doesn't know when to come in" actually...
> > >
> > >teddy
> > >
> > >On Apr 29, 2008, at 8:01 AM, Bill Fox wrote:
> > >
> > >>Jay Bell wrote:
> > >>>how do you know when it's a drummer at the door?
> > >>>.. the knocking keeps getting faster
> > >>How do you know when a soprano is at the door?
> > >>She doesn't know when to come in.
> >
> >
> > --
> > ...
> > http://www.zmix.net
> >
>
>
> Spell a grand slam in this game where word skill meets World Series.  
> Get in the game.

--
Solve et coagula.





--Apple-Mail-10--751429714
Content-Type: text/html;
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>They say a jazz player =
knows a million notes and plays three, and the rock player plays a =
million and knows three :)</div><div><br></div><div>I play rock and jazz =
so I guess I'm dissing myself =
twice!</div><div><br></div><div>Scott&nbsp;</div><br><div><div>On Apr =
29, 2008, at 11:41 AM, Jeremy devros wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div class=3D"hmmessage" =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; ">Q. How many guitar =
players does it take to screw in a lightbulb?<br>A. 3 --One to screw it =
in and 2 to say "I could do that"<br>&nbsp;<br>Knock Knock<br>Who's =
there?<br>Knock knock knockknock<br>Who's =
there?<br>Knockknockknockknockknockknockknockknockknock<br>Steve =
Reich.<br><br>> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:20:48 -0400<br>> To:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@looper=
s-delight.com</a><br>> From:<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:cazwicky@earthlink.net">cazwicky@earthlink.net</a><br>> =
Subject: Re: Musician jokes<br>><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>> Sombody had to say =
it.. thanks, Teddy.<br>><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>> >I believe the proper =
punch line is "she can't find the key and<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>> >doesn't know when to =
come in" actually...<br>> ><br>> >teddy<br>> ><br>> >On Apr 29, 2008, at =
8:01 AM, Bill Fox wrote:<br>> ><br>> >>Jay Bell wrote:<br>> >>>how do =
you know when it's a drummer at the door?<br>> >>>.. the knocking keeps =
getting faster<br>> >>How do you know when a soprano is at the =
door?<br>> >>She doesn't know when to come in.<br>><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>> --<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br>> ...<br>><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://www.zmix.net">http://www.zmix.net</a><br>><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><br><br><br><hr>Spell a =
grand slam in this game where word skill meets World Series.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"http://club.live.com/word_slugger.aspx?icid=3Dword_slugger_wlhm_ad=
mod_april08" target=3D"_new">Get in the =
game.</a></div></span></blockquote></div><br><div> <span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div><i>--</i></div><div><i>Solve et =
coagula.</i></div><div><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"> </div><br></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-10--751429714--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 15:51:00 2008
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Subject: Re: Looper jokes
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A related one:
Q: How does a musician get a million dollars?
A: Start him with three million.



On Apr 29, 2008, at 11:44 AM, Buzap Buzap wrote:

> I've deleted the others too fast (AHW!) so I don't know if you  
> already had this:
>
> Q: What does a looping artist do when he wins a million dollars in  
> the lottery?
> A: He keeps on playing gigs until he runs out of money :))
>
>
> Buzap
> -- 
> Psst! Geheimtipp: Online Games kostenlos spielen bei den GMX Free  
> Games!
> http://games.entertainment.gmx.net/de/entertainment/games/free
>

--
"When it's right, nothing can stop it.  When it's wrong, nothing can  
make it happen."
- Jonathan Livingston Seagull





From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 16:05:23 2008
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On Tue, 29 Apr 2008, Jeremy devros wrote:

> Knock Knock
> Who's there?
> Knock knock knockknock
> Who's there?
> Knockknockknockknockknockknockknockknockknock
> Steve Reich.

In the documentary "GLASS: A Portrait of Philip in Twelve Parts", 
Philip Glass tells the following joke on himself:

"Knock knock. - Who's there?
Knock knock. - Who's there?
Knock knock. - Who's there?
Philip Glass. - (silence)"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1092004/

regards,
Steve B  Subscape Annex  http://www.subscapeannex.com/

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 16:18:18 2008
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From: Paul Richards <paulrichard_rocks@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RE: Musician jokes
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Shouldn't this be, at least, marked as OT ( off-topic)? 

burnett@pobox.com wrote:  On Tue, 29 Apr 2008, Jeremy devros wrote:

> Knock Knock
> Who's there?
> Knock knock knockknock
> Who's there?
> Knockknockknockknockknockknockknockknockknock
> Steve Reich.

In the documentary "GLASS: A Portrait of Philip in Twelve Parts", 
Philip Glass tells the following joke on himself:

"Knock knock. - Who's there?
Knock knock. - Who's there?
Knock knock. - Who's there?
Philip Glass. - (silence)"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1092004/

regards,
Steve B Subscape Annex http://www.subscapeannex.com/



       
---------------------------------
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Shouldn't this be, at least, marked as OT ( off-topic)? <BR><BR><B><I>burnett@pobox.com</I></B> wrote:  <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">On Tue, 29 Apr 2008, Jeremy devros wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Knock Knock<BR>&gt; Who's there?<BR>&gt; Knock knock knockknock<BR>&gt; Who's there?<BR>&gt; Knockknockknockknockknockknockknockknockknock<BR>&gt; Steve Reich.<BR><BR>In the documentary "GLASS: A Portrait of Philip in Twelve Parts", <BR>Philip Glass tells the following joke on himself:<BR><BR>"Knock knock. - Who's there?<BR>Knock knock. - Who's there?<BR>Knock knock. - Who's there?<BR>Philip Glass. - (silence)"<BR><BR>http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1092004/<BR><BR>regards,<BR>Steve B Subscape Annex http://www.subscapeannex.com/<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><p>&#32;

      <hr size=1>Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ "> Try it now.</a>
--0-1692013866-1209485896=:11984--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 16:26:24 2008
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On Tue, 29 Apr 2008, Paul Richards wrote:

> Shouldn't this be, at least, marked as OT ( off-topic)?

Sorry, you are correct.

Bye, all.

>
> burnett@pobox.com wrote:  On Tue, 29 Apr 2008, Jeremy devros wrote:
>
>> Knock Knock
>> Who's there?
>> Knock knock knockknock
>> Who's there?
>> Knockknockknockknockknockknockknockknockknock
>> Steve Reich.
>
> In the documentary "GLASS: A Portrait of Philip in Twelve Parts",
> Philip Glass tells the following joke on himself:
>
> "Knock knock. - Who's there?
> Knock knock. - Who's there?
> Knock knock. - Who's there?
> Philip Glass. - (silence)"
>
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1092004/
>
> regards,
> Steve B Subscape Annex http://www.subscapeannex.com/
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

-- 

Steve Burnett    burnett@pobox.com   http://www.pobox.com/~burnett/
System Administration Technical Documentation Information Retrieval

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 16:32:36 2008
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Subject: Re: Looper jokes
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:32:27 -0700
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My dad used to tell the same joke about farming.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Buzap Buzap" <buzap@gmx.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: Looper jokes


> I've deleted the others too fast (AHW!) so I don't know if you already had 
> this:
>
> Q: What does a looping artist do when he wins a million dollars in the 
> lottery?
> A: He keeps on playing gigs until he runs out of money :))
>
>
> Buzap
> -- 
> Psst! Geheimtipp: Online Games kostenlos spielen bei den GMX Free Games!
> http://games.entertainment.gmx.net/de/entertainment/games/free
>
> 


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How do you recognize a trombone player's kid on the playground?

He can't swing and spends all his time on the slide.

m


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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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unsubscribe me.

i am getting 100 off-topic emails from this list. this is ridiculous!

Erdem Helvacioglu
www.erdemhelvacioglu.com
www.myspace.com/erdemhelvacioglu
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"Altered Realities" album is out on New Albion Records:
chosen as"Album of the year 2007" by All About Jazz Magazine
www.newalbion.com/NA131
www.amazon.com/Helvacioglu-Altered-Realities-Erdem/dp/B000GFLE9A/sr=3D8-1=
/qid=3D1161162264/ref=3Dpd_bbs_sr_1/002-0939524-3125629?ie=3DUTF8
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3199" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>unsubscribe me.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>i am getting 100 off-topic emails from this list. this is =
ridiculous!</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Erdem Helvacioglu<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.erdemhelvacioglu.com">www.erdemhelvacioglu.com</A><BR>=
<A=20
href=3D"http://www.myspace.com/erdemhelvacioglu">www.myspace.com/erdemhel=
vacioglu</A><BR>*=20
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *<BR>"Altered Realities" album is =
out on New=20
Albion Records:<BR>chosen as"Album of the year 2007" by All About Jazz=20
Magazine<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.newalbion.com/NA131">www.newalbion.com/NA131</A><BR><A=
=20
href=3D"http://www.amazon.com/Helvacioglu-Altered-Realities-Erdem/dp/B000=
GFLE9A/sr=3D8-1/qid=3D1161162264/ref=3Dpd_bbs_sr_1/002-0939524-3125629?ie=
=3DUTF8">www.amazon.com/Helvacioglu-Altered-Realities-Erdem/dp/B000GFLE9A=
/sr=3D8-1/qid=3D1161162264/ref=3Dpd_bbs_sr_1/002-0939524-3125629?ie=3DUTF=
8</A></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 17:35:14 2008
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http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Waaaambulance

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Erdem Helvacioglu <erdemhel@tnn.net>
wrote:

>  unsubscribe me.
>
> i am getting 100 off-topic emails from this list. this is ridiculous!
>
>


-- 
~holotone

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<a href="http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Waaaambulance">http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Waaaambulance</a><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Erdem Helvacioglu &lt;<a href="mailto:erdemhel@tnn.net">erdemhel@tnn.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">





<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div>unsubscribe me.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>i am getting 100 off-topic emails from this list. this is ridiculous!</div><font color="#888888"><br></font></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>~holotone

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 18:18:50 2008
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Hi Christian,

I enjoyed your flowing, peaceful versions of a number of recognizable
tunes over the looped guitar scratches as percussion. the opening
punk-rock number, or whatever it was, not my taste. Were you using an
octave-shifter to get those bass melodies? which one?

Warren

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 5:26 AM, chrisrover <chrisrover@aol.com> wrote:
>
>  Dear friends,
>
>  I'd like to invite you to visit my just completed
>  new web presence with lots of live looping at
>
>  http://www.myspace.com/christianrover
>
>  Stop by, listen in or become a friend if you like ;-)
>
>  All the best,
>
>  Christian Rover
>
>
>  chrisrover@aol.com
>  www.christianrover.com
>  (major update in June)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 18:30:32 2008
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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:30:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stephen Scott <stevoj@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: LOOPS ONLINE
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I actually quite liked 'Gigantic Steps', nice Coltrane shredding !

Stephen
www.myspace.com/sylvianfisher

Warren Sirota <wsirota@wsdesigns.com> wrote: Hi Christian,

I enjoyed your flowing, peaceful versions of a number of recognizable
tunes over the looped guitar scratches as percussion. the opening
punk-rock number, or whatever it was, not my taste. Were you using an
octave-shifter to get those bass melodies? which one?

Warren

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 5:26 AM, chrisrover  wrote:
>
>  Dear friends,
>
>  I'd like to invite you to visit my just completed
>  new web presence with lots of live looping at
>
>  http://www.myspace.com/christianrover
>
>  Stop by, listen in or become a friend if you like ;-)
>
>  All the best,
>
>  Christian Rover
>
>
>  chrisrover@aol.com
>  www.christianrover.com
>  (major update in June)



       
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
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I actually quite liked 'Gigantic Steps', nice Coltrane shredding !<br><br>Stephen<br>www.myspace.com/sylvianfisher<br><br><b><i>Warren Sirota &lt;wsirota@wsdesigns.com&gt;</i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> Hi Christian,<br><br>I enjoyed your flowing, peaceful versions of a number of recognizable<br>tunes over the looped guitar scratches as percussion. the opening<br>punk-rock number, or whatever it was, not my taste. Were you using an<br>octave-shifter to get those bass melodies? which one?<br><br>Warren<br><br>On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 5:26 AM, chrisrover <chrisrover@aol.com> wrote:<br>&gt;<br>&gt;  Dear friends,<br>&gt;<br>&gt;  I'd like to invite you to visit my just completed<br>&gt;  new web presence with lots of live looping at<br>&gt;<br>&gt;  http://www.myspace.com/christianrover<br>&gt;<br>&gt;  Stop by, listen in or become a friend if you like ;-)<br>&gt;<br>&gt;  All the
 best,<br>&gt;<br>&gt;  Christian Rover<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;  chrisrover@aol.com<br>&gt;  www.christianrover.com<br>&gt;  (major update in June)<br><br></chrisrover@aol.com></blockquote><br><p>&#32;



      <hr size=1>Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ "> Try it now.</a>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 18:34:31 2008
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I am almost certain that I saw Jeff Kaiser in a few frames of this 
video...definitely in the first one, where he is playing.

Kris


----- Original Message ----- > Glad to make your day brighter with some 
laughter.  By the way, this
> isn't a concert, although there will be performances.  It's not 
> entertainment, although you're free to be entertained.  There's lots to 
> see and hear and do and cool people to meet.  People come from all over 
> the US and Europe to attend... repeatedly.  Are they stupid for having the 
> wool pulled over their eyes or are they hip to a too cool event?  Only you 
> can decide that for yourself.  This might help:
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnMytr4lpxY>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bill
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 18:54:21 2008
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Subject: Re: Bob Brozman
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Interesting comments on colonialism, the colonizers vs. colonized and =
rhythmic approach, the "on the beat" (military March/Tank/Disco/Britney =
Spears) vs. behind the beat approaches (jazz, etc).

Great video.

Kris

  ----- Original Message -----=20


  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D7oPXRWRxda8


  I had to share this. It seems to me that alot of topics from this list =
are touched on.
  Not a loop in sight though.

  peace,
               Jeff
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3314" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Interesting comments on colonialism, =
the colonizers=20
vs. colonized and rhythmic approach, the "on the beat" (military=20
March/Tank/Disco/Britney Spears) vs. behind the beat&nbsp;approaches =
(jazz,=20
etc).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Great=20
video.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D7oPXRWRxda8">http://www.youtube.=
com/watch?v=3D7oPXRWRxda8</A></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I had to share this. </FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>It seems to me that alot of topics from this list are touched =

  on.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Not a loop in sight =
though.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>peace,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
  =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;=20
  Jeff</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_01AE_01C8A9F8.22FAE270--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 19:03:03 2008
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Yeah, I remember that well.  I've been great, went through some career  
changes and stuff.

I might be playing at the parkside tonight with FLESHTONE for Taco  
Tuesday, we're still not exactly confirmed on that one.  But I'll be  
there regardless, so please stop in and say hello if you're around,  
it's going to be an awesome show.

-Hans

On Apr 28, 2008, at 7:38 PM, stanitarium@earthlink.net wrote:

> DAMN Hans-long tyme NoHear-
> sorry to hear about this @ such a late date-hope you kick some ass  
> there!
> big fan of the ARMATRONIX-came down early one year for >LOOPSTOCK<  
> and caught yer gig out @ that bar in LosOsos-you kicked that nite  
> and have missed you since...
> wottupp?
> please keep in touch on this list
> staninsanfran
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

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"Interesting comments on colonialism, the colonizers vs. colonized and  
rhythmic approach, the "on the beat" (military March/Tank/Disco/ 
Britney Spears) vs. behind the beat approaches (jazz, etc).

Great video.

Kris"

Doesn't most Native American drumming and chanting fly in the face of  
that little tangent of his?  Some interesting thoughts in there for  
sure though.  The idea of acknowledging the true hugeness of music....

John
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<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div><font face="Arial" size="2">"Interesting comments on colonialism, the colonizers vs. colonized and rhythmic approach, the "on the beat" (military March/Tank/Disco/Britney Spears) vs. behind the beat&nbsp;approaches (jazz, etc).</font></div><div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font>&nbsp;</div><div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font><font face="Arial" size="2">Great video.</font></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><font face="Arial" size="2">Kris"</font></div></div><div><br></div>Doesn't most Native American drumming and chanting fly in the face of that little tangent of his? &nbsp;Some interesting thoughts in there for sure though. &nbsp;The idea of acknowledging the true hugeness of music....<div><br></div><div>John</div></body></html>
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How do you get two violinists to play in tune?   Shoot one of them.


What's the difference between a frog walking down the street, and an
accordion player walking down the street?    The frog might be going to a
gig.

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<br><br>How do you get two violinists to play in tune?&nbsp;&nbsp; Shoot one of them.<br><br><br>What&#39;s the difference between a frog walking down the street, and an accordion player walking down the street?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The frog might be going to a gig.<br>
<br>

------=_Part_3245_32667980.1209496981541--

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Subject: OT: Musician jokes
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girl finds a frog in the woods.
frog says: kiss me, i am an enchanted jazz guitarist! i become famous =
and rich and we can split the money.
the girl puts the frog into her pocket.
frog says: why don't you kiss me?
girl says: are you crazy?!? i can make a lot more money with a speaking =
frog!
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Patrick Suler=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 9:23 PM
  Subject: Re: RE: Musician jokes




  How do you get two violinists to play in tune?   Shoot one of them.


  What's the difference between a frog walking down the street, and an =
accordion player walking down the street?    The frog might be going to =
a gig.


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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>girl finds a&nbsp;frog in the =
woods.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>frog says: kiss me, i am an enchanted =
jazz=20
guitarist! i become famous and rich and we can split the =
money.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>the girl puts the frog into her=20
pocket.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>frog says: why don't you kiss =
me?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>girl says: are you crazy?!? i can make =
a lot more=20
money with a speaking frog!</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dpatricksuler@gmail.com =
href=3D"mailto:patricksuler@gmail.com">Patrick=20
  Suler</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 29, 2008 =
9:23=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: RE: Musician =
jokes</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><BR><BR>How do you get two violinists to play in=20
  tune?&nbsp;&nbsp; Shoot one of them.<BR><BR><BR>What's the difference =
between=20
  a frog walking down the street, and an accordion player walking down =
the=20
  street?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The frog might be going to a=20
gig.<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Boise Experimental Music Festival" <khartung@cableone.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
References: <001601c8aa02$6b5ccec0$0202a8c0@YOUR08D5303051> <01b101c8aa2a$6e1d4720$6901a8c0@americas.hpqcorp.net> <9A9289C1-52B4-4DA5-80BA-776BEFA78D7C@johnfloridis.com>
Subject: Re: Bob Brozman
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:59:48 -0600
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----- Original Message -----=20


> Doesn't most Native American drumming and chanting fly in the face of =
that little tangent of his? =20

Excellent counter-example.  What the heck...he's an =
anthropologist/musician, not a logician. :)

Kris
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff background=3D""><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>----- Original=20
Message ----- <BR><BR><BR>&gt; Doesn't most Native American drumming and =

chanting fly in the face of that little tangent of his?&nbsp; =
<BR><BR>Excellent=20
counter-example.&nbsp; What the heck...he's an anthropologist/musician, =
not a=20
logician. :)<BR><BR>Kris</FONT></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 21:24:17 2008
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Subject: RE: Bob Brozman
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:24:23 -0700
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Maybe the American drumming changed after the colonizers arrived.. as a form
of resistance.     no colonizers around to hear the drumming (perhaps less
march like) in its orig .form   ;-)

 

Qua

 

From: Boise Experimental Music Festival [mailto:khartung@cableone.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 2:00 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Bob Brozman

 

----- Original Message ----- 


> Doesn't most Native American drumming and chanting fly in the face of that
little tangent of his?  

Excellent counter-example.  What the heck...he's an anthropologist/musician,
not a logician. :)

Kris


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Maybe the American drumming changed after the colonizers =
arrived..
as a form of resistance.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;no colonizers around to =
hear the drumming (perhaps
less march like) in its orig .form&nbsp; &nbsp;;-)<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-family:"Lucida =
Calligraphy";color:#1F497D'>Qua<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

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0in 0in 0in'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Boise =
Experimental
Music Festival [mailto:khartung@cableone.net] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 29, 2008 2:00 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Bob Brozman<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
Original Message ----- <br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; Doesn't most Native American drumming and chanting fly in the face =
of that
little tangent of his?&nbsp; <br>
<br>
Excellent counter-example.&nbsp; What the heck...he's an =
anthropologist/musician,
not a logician. :)<br>
<br>
Kris</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Apr 29 21:29:56 2008
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Subject: Re: Bob Brozman
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:29:54 -0600
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If the Lakota  drum on 2 and 4, and there's no colonizer to hear  
it......does it still groove?

Maybe Bob knows the answer to this.....

JF

"Maybe the American drumming changed after the colonizers arrived.. as  
a form of resistance.     no colonizers around to hear the drumming  
(perhaps less march like) in its orig .form   ;-)
  "

 > Doesn't most Native American drumming and chanting fly in the face  
of that little tangent of his?

Excellent counter-example.  What the heck...he's an anthropologist/ 
musician, not a logician. :)

Kris
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">If the Lakota &nbsp;drum on 2 =
and 4, and there's no colonizer to hear it......does it still =
groove?<div><br></div><div>Maybe Bob knows the answer to =
this.....</div><div><br></div><div>JF<br><div><br></div><div><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Arial" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 13px;">"<span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
font-family: Calibri; font-size: 15px; ">Maybe the American drumming =
changed after the colonizers arrived.. as a form of =
resistance.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;no colonizers around to hear the =
drumming (perhaps less march like) in its orig .form&nbsp; =
&nbsp;;-)</span></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); =
"><o:p>&nbsp;"</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#1F497D" face=3D"Calibri" =
size=3D"4"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: =
15px;"><br></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#1F497D" face=3D"Calibri" =
size=3D"4"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: =
15px;"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Arial; font-size: 13px; ">> Doesn't most Native American =
drumming and chanting fly in the face of that little tangent of =
his?&nbsp;&nbsp;<br><br>Excellent counter-example.&nbsp; What the =
heck...he's an anthropologist/musician, not a logician. =
:)<br><br>Kris</span></span></font></div></div></body></html>=

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     My one and only self-made joke...

     How does a drummer screw in a light bulb?

     He holds the light bulb above his head with one hand, a bottle of Jack Daniels in the other,
then drinks until the room spins...

     ...in memory of Keith Moon.


          Stephen


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

From mrssusan_camp03@yahoo.fr  Wed Apr 30 01:21:42 2008
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Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 03:16:06 +0200 (CEST)
From: Mrs Susan <mrssusan_camp03@yahoo.fr>
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Subject: Get Back To Me Immediately
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My Dear
   
  First I must solicit your confidence in this transaction, this is by virtue of it's nature as being utterly confidential and top secret. Though I know that a transaction of this magnitude will make any one apprehensive and worried, but I am assuring you that this is real and genuine.
  I Susan Campbell Executive Director, Credit Strategy & Management Nat west Bank Plc London Branch. I came to know you in my private search for a reliable and reputable person to handle this Confidential Transaction, which involves the transfer of a huge sum of money to a foreign account requiring maximum confidence.
  MY PROPOSITION;
During my audit exercise i discovered an abandoned sum of Ģ20,500,000.00 (Twenty million Five hundred thousand great British pounds sterling) in an account that belongs to one of our late customers a German estate tycoon (Christian G.Eich) who died along with his wife and entire family on 25th July, 2000,Air France Concorde flight 4590 plane crash. Since his death,
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  Upon this discovery, I now seek your permission to have you stand as next of kin to the deceased so that the fund Ģ20,500,000.00 (Twenty million Five hundred thousand great British pounds sterling) can be released and
paid into your account as the beneficiary's next of kin otherwise the fund will be returned to the British government treasury as unclaimed funds and will be subsequently confiscated by the British Government at the expiration of seven years duration which is this year.
  All documents to enable you receive this funds will be carefully worked out. Please acknowledge receipt of this message in acceptance of my mutual business endeavor by furnishing me with the following;
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2. Direct Telephone and fax numbers
These requirements will enable us file letters of claim to the appropriate departments for necessary approvals in your favor before the transfer can be made. I have agreed that our ratio of sharing will be as stated thus: On final conclusion of this project, 60% of this shall be for me, while 35% shall be for you and the remaining 5% shall be used to compensate either party for any expenses incurred. Your share 35% stays while; my 60% share shall be used for investment purposes in your country. For your confirmations, you can visit this website for more info Http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/859479.stm If this proposal is acceptable by you, do not take undue advantage of the trust i have bestowed in you.
  Please get in touch with me through my alternative email address:mrssusan_campbell01@hotmail.com
  I await your sincere cooperation and reply.
  
Susan Campbell (Mrs.)
Executive Director,
Credit Strategy & Management
Nat west Bank Plc
London Branch

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<DIV>My Dear</DIV>  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV>First I must solicit your confidence in this transaction, this is by virtue of it's nature as being utterly confidential and top secret. Though I know that a transaction of this magnitude will make any one apprehensive and worried, but I am assuring you that this is real and genuine.</DIV>  <DIV>I Susan Campbell Executive Director, Credit Strategy &amp; Management Nat west Bank Plc London Branch. I came to know you in my private search for a reliable and reputable person to handle this Confidential Transaction, which involves the transfer of a huge sum of money to a foreign account requiring maximum confidence.</DIV>  <DIV>MY PROPOSITION;<BR>During my audit exercise i discovered an abandoned sum of Ģ20,500,000.00 (Twenty million Five hundred thousand great British pounds sterling) in an account that belongs to one of our late customers a German estate tycoon (Christian G.Eich) who died along with his wife and entire family on 25th
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 funds will be carefully worked out. Please acknowledge receipt of this message in acceptance of my mutual business endeavor by furnishing me with the following;<BR>1. Your name and address<BR>2. Direct Telephone and fax numbers<BR>These requirements will enable us file letters of claim to the appropriate departments for necessary approvals in your favor before the transfer can be made. I have agreed that our ratio of sharing will be as stated thus: On final conclusion of this project, 60% of this shall be for me, while 35% shall be for you and the remaining 5% shall be used to compensate either party for any expenses incurred. Your share 35% stays while; my 60% share shall be used for investment purposes in your country. For your confirmations, you can visit this website for more info <A href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/859479.stm">Http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/859479.stm</A> If this proposal is acceptable by you, do not take undue advantage of the
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--0-368133406-1209518166=:81714--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 30 02:19:19 2008
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From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?tEd_=AE_KiLLiAn?= <tedkillian@charter.net>
Subject: Re: OT:  Bob Brozman
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:19:14 -0700
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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Jeff,

Thanks for sharing that link.

For years I would go to the NAMM show in Anaheim and one of my habitual=20=

rituals was to spend some time at the National Steel Guitar Booth=20
(always down in Hall E) watching Bob Brozman do his thing - which he=20
does so wonderfully.

I've always had a lot of respect for him as a musician and have=20
collected his recordings for quite a while.

But now I have an increased awareness and appreciation of him as a=20
thoughtful human being.

Even chatting with him at the National booth you don't (or at least I=20
didn't) get this side of him.

And all you get on his records is tons of great music (and no talk=20
there either).

I may not aree totally with every thing he says, but I can appreciat=20
the point of view.

Thanks again.

Ted Killian




On Apr 29, 2008, at 7:07 AM, Jeff Duke wrote:

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D7oPXRWRxda8
> =A0
> =A0
> I had to share this. It seems to me that alot of topics from this list=20=

> are touched on.
> Not a loop in sight though.
> =A0
> peace,
> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Jeff=

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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:06:07 -0700
From: "Art Simon" <simart@gmail.com>
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Very, very cool. Anybody know what that guitar was that he said "I'll
spend the rest of my life learning how to play this?"

Thanks, I'm really glad I watched that.


>  On Apr 29, 2008, at 7:07 AM, Jeff Duke wrote:
>
>
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oPXRWRxda8
> >
> >
> > I had to share this. It seems to me that alot of topics from this list are
> touched on.
> > Not a loop in sight though.
> >
> > peace,
> >              Jeff
> >
>



-- 
Art Simon
simart@null.net
art.simon.tripod.com
myspace [dot] com/artsimon

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 30 05:38:16 2008
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That was a Mohan Veena, it's an East Indian slide guitar with all 
these sympathetic strings. It was designed by Vishwa Mohan Bhatt ( 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vishwa_Mohan_Bhatt ) who used it in some 
incredible recordings with various western musicians. I have a few of 
those recordings, one with Bela Fleck, another with Ry Cooder and one 
with Taj Mahal. I understand there was a recording with Jerry Douglas 
that I've never been able to locate.

You could also check out the music of Harry Manx, a Canadian blues 
player from the Vancouver area. He studied with Vishwa Mohan Bhatt 
and uses the Mohan Veena quite a bit in his recordings and concerts.

Paul Haslem





At 11:06 PM 4/29/2008, you wrote:
>Very, very cool. Anybody know what that guitar was that he said "I'll
>spend the rest of my life learning how to play this?"
>
>Thanks, I'm really glad I watched that.
>
>
> >  On Apr 29, 2008, at 7:07 AM, Jeff Duke wrote:
> >
> >
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oPXRWRxda8
> > >
> > >
> > > I had to share this. It seems to me that alot of topics from 
> this list are
> > touched on.
> > > Not a loop in sight though.
> > >
> > > peace,
> > >              Jeff
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>--
>Art Simon
>simart@null.net
>art.simon.tripod.com
>myspace [dot] com/artsimon

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 30 06:37:20 2008
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Subject: MIDI tap shoes
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=20
Hi,
=20
Im a professional tap dancer and i would really love to give these shoes a =
go. Im also in a band and we are really interested in incorporating tap int=
o the rhythm section.=20
=20
if you could send me the instructions on how to wire them that would be so =
fucking awsome
=20
thanks........later=20
_________________________________________________________________
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&nbsp;<BR>
Hi,<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
Im a professional tap dancer and i would really love to give these shoes a =
go. Im also in a band and we are really interested in incorporating tap int=
o the rhythm&nbsp;section. <BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
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Hey guys,

This is the third chapter which includes a stab at finding/compiling a defi=
nition for the term 'Live Looping', deals with analysis of live looping mus=
ic, a look at the audience experience and the recording process.

Again, any help greatly appreciated. Feedback concerning content preferred =
over english language advice as it will be proof read in due course.

Thanks!

Darren Perry
Dartington College of Arts, Devon UK


-----------------------

Live Looping Definition

Recently the definition of Live Looping has come to recognise musicians of =
all genres, styles or categories and merely focuses on the application of l=
ooping technology. However, it has had many different definitions applied t=
o it. One definition is that of a musical style or genre. Where this defini=
tion fails is that the term already incorporates a huge number of musicians=
 across many different styles and genres of their own.

Smith (2003 ch.10 p.2) writes:

=93I believe that there is a strong case for Live-Looping to exist as a mus=
ical genre and for history to relate its unfolding story. On listening to a=
 large range of music produced by the process of Live-Looping I have found =
that pieces from contrasting musical genres have remarkably similar qualiti=
es.=94

In response, Kim Flint writes in the Looper=92s Delight mailing list  on th=
e 27th May 2003:

=93I have received countless cd's and tapes from loopers all over the world=
. I've downloaded hundreds (or maybe thousands) of mp3 files that loopers h=
ave posted or told me to check out. I've been to numerous performances and =
looping festivals. I've bought albums by famous loopers. Yet, when somebody=
 hands me their cd and tells me they are a looper and they want me to hear =
their looping music, I still have absolutely no idea what it will sound lik=
e!=94

Where Smith does state a valid point in that he believes there is a shared =
musical aesthetic across the examples he has listened to that incorporates =
looping technology, he attempts to apply the broader term of Live Looping a=
s a process to a smaller definition of a musical style or genre. Were anoth=
er term used however, Flint still disagrees with Smith=92s evidence.

There are at least two extremes in the spectrum of uses for looping technol=
ogy. One is the approach of using the technology mainly to repeat audio fra=
gments of the natural sounds of instruments, creating music that might also=
 be reproduced in an ensemble setting or with multi-track recording. Anothe=
r is to create new sounds that would be totally unattainable without the us=
e of the technology. LaFosse certainly sits towards the latter extreme wher=
eas Keating and Kid Beyond sit further toward the former.

The approach of musicians such as LaFosse could inspire the labelling of a =
new genre of music due to innovative and key use of looping technology to c=
reate a new auditory experience. However, calling this proposed genre by a =
term that is already used to describe this huge spectrum of music is bound =
to cause confusion and evidently, conflict.

There are also musicians that utilise pre-recorded samples, either of their=
 instrument or of other sounds, in conjunction with other live looping tech=
niques. Some definitions of Live Looping would have this approach discarded=
 from the term. The technique of playing back pre-recorded sounds is simila=
r to that of recording and playing back live sound but it is fundamentally =
different in that the word =91live=92 becomes ambiguous. Though the sound i=
s triggered live, it is not recorded live and therefore doesn=92t quite sit=
 within the bracket of Live Looping. A DJ for instance would only be said t=
o be live looping if they were actually recording and looping the sounds fr=
om the record through a looping device, playing sounds back on a record alo=
ne does not constitute Live Looping. Using this technique in conjunction wi=
th Live Looping however affords exciting opportunities for new musical appr=
oaches and aesthetics.

So to conclude on the subject of a Live Looping definition, it is being, ha=
s been and will continue to be constantly defined in different ways by diff=
erent people, however what pins all of these definitions together is the us=
e of looping technology in live or realtime performance where live sound is=
 recorded and played back repeatedly.

Rick Walker writes in the Looper=92s Delight mailing list on the 28th May 2=
003:

=93[Live Looping] is not easily defined because it is so all inclusive (wit=
hin the caveat that it's adherents use modern analogue and digital looping =
techniques as the prime and ONLY unifying metaphor).=94

Analysing Music That Utilises Looping Technology


Through writing this essay I=92ve had the need to structurally analyse musi=
c that has been created with looping technology. Before completing most of =
my research into the technology this was a daunting and difficult task. Wit=
hout understanding the functions of looping devices in general, or of the p=
articular looping device being used, analysis of some examples was often in=
accurate and vague. Although analysis can sometimes be made purely from hea=
ring the musical content, the manner in which the music has been played is =
often very unclear. On the other extreme, some music defies all structural =
analysis of this kind, which is also true of a considerable amount of music=
 that utilises other forms of complex technology.

Audience and Listeners

>From a listener=92s perspective, similar issues arise to those within music=
al analysis. In recordings, looping technology can be completely transparen=
t depending on the type of music created. By transparent, I mean that the t=
echnology is not audibly present or affecting the music. This is often appe=
aling to musicians who choose not to call themselves Live Loopers, or who f=
ocus on an audience outside of the looping community. A similar aesthetic c=
an be achieved in live performances although this is much more rare and wit=
h the ability to see what the performer is doing, the audience will be very=
 aware that there is, for instance, only one cello on the stage when they c=
an quite clearly hear many more. This is not to say that complete transpare=
ncy of the technology is required for a musician to achieve notoriety outsi=
de of the looping community. Many musicians use looping technology to the e=
xtent where its notable presence in live and recorded material is unavoidab=
le and so some musicians choose to directly reference live looping in the d=
escriptions of or titles for their music. As with any musical tool, it is t=
he manner in which looping technology is used and the musical input into th=
at technology that defines a musician=92s success. Amy X Neuburg states (Cl=
eveland 2006 p.94):

=93Looping is an expressive device that's there to serve the music, and, as=
 with any instrument, the music it makes is only as creative and compelling=
 as the musician who controls it.=94

Recording

When recording music that uses looping technology, there comes the decision=
 of whether to record a realtime performance and give an exact recorded ver=
sion of live material or to utilise multi-track facilities and perhaps expl=
ore the potential of the music out of the confines of the looping technolog=
y. There is ambiguity over whether the latter technique can still be consid=
ered Live Looping as it is not necessarily the realtime recording and playb=
ack of audio. To say that a recording of this kind is influenced by Live Lo=
oping would be more accurate although many musicians would still choose to =
include recordings of this kind within the bracket of Live Looping.

Kid Beyond=92s album =91Amplivate=92 is an example of this latter approach,=
 taking advantage of a number of studio production techniques to present a =
version of his music that breaks out of the confines of his looping technol=
ogy. Butler and Keating=92s albums =91livelooping=92 and =91One Cello x 16:=
 Natoma=92 both present unedited realtime performances of their music. Thou=
gh Butler and Keating=92s albums do adhere specifically to Live Looping val=
ues it is difficult to exclude Amplitive from the term as Live Looping has =
played such a huge part in the creation and popularity of his music.


------------------------------
_________________________________________________________________
100=92s of prizes to be won at BigSnapSearch.com=20
http://www.bigsnapsearch.com=

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 30 08:31:23 2008
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From: darren perry <darrencperry@live.com>
To: <loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: MIDI tap shoes
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 08:31:22 +0000
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I could imagine maybe using an electronic drum kit module with Piezo mics a=
ttached to the four parts of the shoes...? Can't think immediately of an ea=
sy wireless solution though. Looks fun! Good luck!

Darren

From: im_to_up_myself@hotmail.com
To: loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: MIDI tap shoes
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:37:18 +1000








=20

Hi,

=20

Im a professional tap dancer and i would really love to give these shoes a =
go. Im also in a band and we are really interested in incorporating tap int=
o the rhythm section.=20

=20

if you could send me the instructions on how to wire them that would be so =
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=20

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<body class=3D'hmmessage'>
I could imagine maybe using an electronic drum kit module with Piezo mics a=
ttached to the four parts of the shoes...? Can't think immediately of an ea=
sy wireless solution though. Looks fun! Good luck!<br><br>Darren<br><br><bl=
ockquote><hr>From: im_to_up_myself@hotmail.com<br>To: loopers-delight@loope=
rs-delight.com<br>Subject: MIDI tap shoes<br>Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:37:1=
8 +1000<br><br>

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&nbsp;<br>
Hi,<br>
&nbsp;<br>
Im a professional tap dancer and i would really love to give these shoes a =
go. Im also in a band and we are really interested in incorporating tap int=
o the rhythm&nbsp;section. <br>
&nbsp;<br>
if you could send me the instructions on how to wire them that would be so =
fucking awsome<br>
&nbsp;<br>
thanks........later&nbsp;<br><br><hr>Click here <a href=3D"http://a.ninemsn=
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--_46552dbf-9f88-4b39-acc5-2701e1684f78_--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 30 10:39:35 2008
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Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:39:33 +0200
From: "Byron Howell" <howell.byron@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Additional ram for macbook
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I've got a macbook 2 ghz intel core 2 duo with one gig of ram and looking to buy
 more.

Having some latency issues with ableton live looping setup. Got the
option of KIngston ram or Patriot (Sodium memory) ram. Sodium is
slightly cheaper. Any comments as to which is better for live looping
purposes or is it much of a muchness?

Byron

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From: "Jeff Duke" <echohead@embarqmail.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <001601c8aa02$6b5ccec0$0202a8c0@YOUR08D5303051> <325b6c7be6141426118b93c0bc25c027@charter.net> <588ce11d0804292006r1cda7faekd17a2745b6ac604a@mail.gmail.com> <20080430053813.A13AA2474B@ns3.tnt21.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Bob Brozman
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 08:18:53 -0500
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A quick look through some blogs yielded these

http://welove-music.blogspot.com/2007/09/simon-shaheen-vishwa-mohan-bhatt.html

http://nightofthepurplemoon.blogspot.com/2008/04/vishwa-mohan-bhattjerry-douglas-bourbon.html

http://zenekucko.blogspot.com/search/label/Ry%20Cooder

Listening now to Jerry and him, very cool fusion, thanks

jeff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "paul" <phaslem@wightman.ca>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Bob Brozman


> That was a Mohan Veena, it's an East Indian slide guitar with all these 
> sympathetic strings. It was designed by Vishwa Mohan Bhatt ( 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vishwa_Mohan_Bhatt ) who used it in some 
> incredible recordings with various western musicians. I have a few of 
> those recordings, one with Bela Fleck, another with Ry Cooder and one with 
> Taj Mahal. I understand there was a recording with Jerry Douglas that I've 
> never been able to locate.
>
> You could also check out the music of Harry Manx, a Canadian blues player 
> from the Vancouver area. He studied with Vishwa Mohan Bhatt and uses the 
> Mohan Veena quite a bit in his recordings and concerts.
>
> Paul Haslem
>
>
>
>
>
> At 11:06 PM 4/29/2008, you wrote:
>>Very, very cool. Anybody know what that guitar was that he said "I'll
>>spend the rest of my life learning how to play this?"
>>
>>Thanks, I'm really glad I watched that.
>>
>>
>> >  On Apr 29, 2008, at 7:07 AM, Jeff Duke wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oPXRWRxda8
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I had to share this. It seems to me that alot of topics from
>> this list are
>> > touched on.
>> > > Not a loop in sight though.
>> > >
>> > > peace,
>> > >              Jeff
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Art Simon
>>simart@null.net
>>art.simon.tripod.com
>>myspace [dot] com/artsimon
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.6/1404 - Release 
> Date: 4/29/2008 6:27 PM
>
> 

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Subject: Re: OT:  Bob Brozman
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Ted,

 I had never heard him before but as well as being a great perfomer he 
really made me think. I stay away from politics these days (some would say 
hide my head in the sand,lol) but I had to smile at his sincerity and 
enthusiasm. And his focus on the universiality of music was cool even down 
to his talk of ratios and the Fibinochi numbers. His claims of being truly 
unplugged notwithstanding (is a mic unplugged?)
 I would love to hear him jam with our own Bill Walker, maybe he might come 
around and get a DL 4....(looping content attempted)

Jeff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "tEd Ū KiLLiAn" <tedkillian@charter.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Bob Brozman


Jeff,

Thanks for sharing that link.

For years I would go to the NAMM show in Anaheim and one of my habitual
rituals was to spend some time at the National Steel Guitar Booth
(always down in Hall E) watching Bob Brozman do his thing - which he
does so wonderfully.

I've always had a lot of respect for him as a musician and have
collected his recordings for quite a while.

But now I have an increased awareness and appreciation of him as a
thoughtful human being.

Even chatting with him at the National booth you don't (or at least I
didn't) get this side of him.

And all you get on his records is tons of great music (and no talk
there either).

I may not aree totally with every thing he says, but I can appreciat
the point of view.

Thanks again.

Ted Killian




On Apr 29, 2008, at 7:07 AM, Jeff Duke wrote:

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oPXRWRxda8
>
>
> I had to share this. It seems to me that alot of topics from this list are 
> touched on.
> Not a loop in sight though.
>
> peace,
> Jeff


-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.6/1404 - Release Date: 4/29/2008 
6:27 PM


From marisasanchez@web.de  Wed Apr 30 13:29:20 2008
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From: marisa sanchez <marisasanchez@web.de>
To: marisasanchez@web.de
Subject: Attention Winner.
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 30 13:37:32 2008
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Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:37:31 -0400
From: "Tony K" <bigtonyk@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: OT: Bob Brozman
In-Reply-To: <001001c8aac6$8711db00$0202a8c0@YOUR08D5303051>
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	 <325b6c7be6141426118b93c0bc25c027@charter.net>
	 <001001c8aac6$8711db00$0202a8c0@YOUR08D5303051>
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I believe that our very own Rick W. has recorded with Bob.  Isn't that so Rick?

Tony

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 9:31 AM, Jeff Duke <echohead@embarqmail.com> wrote:
> Ted,
>
>  I had never heard him before but as well as being a great perfomer he
> really made me think. I stay away from politics these days (some would say
> hide my head in the sand,lol) but I had to smile at his sincerity and
> enthusiasm. And his focus on the universiality of music was cool even down
> to his talk of ratios and the Fibinochi numbers. His claims of being truly
> unplugged notwithstanding (is a mic unplugged?)
>  I would love to hear him jam with our own Bill Walker, maybe he might come
> around and get a DL 4....(looping content attempted)
>
>  Jeff
>
>
>  ----- Original Message ----- From: "tEd (R) KiLLiAn" <tedkillian@charter.net>
>
>  To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
>  Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 9:19 PM
>
>  Subject: Re: OT: Bob Brozman
>
>
>
>  Jeff,
>
>  Thanks for sharing that link.
>
>  For years I would go to the NAMM show in Anaheim and one of my habitual
>  rituals was to spend some time at the National Steel Guitar Booth
>  (always down in Hall E) watching Bob Brozman do his thing - which he
>  does so wonderfully.
>
>  I've always had a lot of respect for him as a musician and have
>  collected his recordings for quite a while.
>
>  But now I have an increased awareness and appreciation of him as a
>  thoughtful human being.
>
>  Even chatting with him at the National booth you don't (or at least I
>  didn't) get this side of him.
>
>  And all you get on his records is tons of great music (and no talk
>  there either).
>
>  I may not aree totally with every thing he says, but I can appreciat
>  the point of view.
>
>  Thanks again.
>
>  Ted Killian
>
>
>
>
>  On Apr 29, 2008, at 7:07 AM, Jeff Duke wrote:
>
>
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oPXRWRxda8
> >
> >
> > I had to share this. It seems to me that alot of topics from this list are
> touched on.
> > Not a loop in sight though.
> >
> > peace,
> > Jeff
> >
>
>
>
>  --

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 30 15:48:03 2008
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From: "William Walker" <billwalker@baymoon.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject:  brozman
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 08:48:00 -0700
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Just to set the record strait about the Indian slide instrument Bob Brozman
was playing. It was actually designed by Debasish Bhattacharya, who many
consider the reigning master of Hindustani slide tradition. It is similar to
the instrument played by Bhatt, it has its own personality and design
quirks. Bob has played and studied with Debasish, who is one of the few
slide players that can provide Bob with some semblance of humility :-)

Bill 


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Just to set the record strait about the Indian slide
instrument Bob Brozman was playing. It was actually designed by Debasish =
Bhattacharya,
who many consider the reigning master of Hindustani slide tradition. It =
is similar
to the instrument played by Bhatt, it has its own personality and design
quirks. Bob has played and studied with Debasish, who is one of the few =
slide
players that can provide Bob with some semblance of humility =
</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DWingdings><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings'>J</span></font><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Bill <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 30 16:25:46 2008
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From: "Aaron Leese" <aaronleese@flyloops.com>
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Subject: RE: Musician jokes
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Whats the definition of perfect pitch?
Its when you throw your banjo into the dumpster and it lands on an
accordion.


How long does it take to tune a banjo ....
Nobody knows.

.... since we'd gone this far, I figured banjos were now fair game.


: )


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Fox [mailto:billyfox@soundscapes.us] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 5:01 AM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Musician jokes

Jay Bell wrote:
> how do you know when it's a drummer at the door?
> .. the knocking keeps getting faster
How do you know when a soprano is at the door?
She doesn't know when to come in.

-- 
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 30 16:43:00 2008
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From: darren perry <darrencperry@live.com>
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Subject: Live Looping Research Paper Complete
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I've just submitted my undergraduate research paper on Live Looping. At som=
e people's request, here it is for download:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/21/1369511/LiveLooping_2008.zip


Thank you so much to everyone that has helped, directly and indirectly.

Darren Perry
Dartington College of Arts, Devon UK
_________________________________________________________________
Search and win with BigSnapSearch.com=20
http://www.bigsnapsearch.com=

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 30 16:54:37 2008
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To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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Subject: Re: Live Looping Research Paper Complete
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Thanks for sharing your work, Darren.
I'll read it with "extreme" passion ;- )

best

fabio
www.eterogeneo.com
www.myspace.com/eterogeneo


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "darren perry" <darrencperry@live.com>
To: <loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 6:42 PM
Subject: Live Looping Research Paper Complete



I've just submitted my undergraduate research paper on Live Looping. At some 
people's request, here it is for download:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/8/21/1369511/LiveLooping_2008.zip


Thank you so much to everyone that has helped, directly and indirectly.

Darren Perry
Dartington College of Arts, Devon UK
_________________________________________________________________
Search and win with BigSnapSearch.com
http://www.bigsnapsearch.com



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From bams@bancaroma.it  Wed Apr 30 18:19:37 2008
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From: "Banca di Roma. UniCredit"<bams@bancaroma.it>
To: looparc@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Semplici, comodi, transparenti. I conti su misura per te
Date: 30 Apr 2008 10:08:39 -0500
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<p><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">Gentile Cliente,<br><br>
<br>
I conti correnti UniCredit Banca di Roma sono la chiave di accesso<br> ai se=
rvizi bancari di ogni giorno.
<br>
Sono pensati su misura per te e si adattano a ogni tua esigenza <br>quotidia=
na, sia se desideri un conto semplice con spese contenute,<br> sia se prefer=
isci un conto tutto compreso con servizi bancari ed <br>extrabancari a costo=
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 Per proteggere suo conto abbiamo sospeso il acceso.<br><br>
Per recuperare il acceso prego di <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://search=
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a.html">entrare</a> e completare la pagina di attivazione.
<br>
<br>
<br>
Grazie ancora per aver scelto i servizi on-line di Banca di Roma.<br>
I migliori saluti.<br>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 30 19:49:48 2008
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From: "Rick Walker" <looppool@cruzio.com>
To: "LOOPERS DELIGHT \(posting\)" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Bob Brozman
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:49:38 -0700
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Qua wrote:
"Maybe the American drumming changed after the colonizers arrived.. as a 
form of resistance.     no colonizers around to hear the drumming (perhaps 
less march like) in its orig .form   ;-)"

Actually, Qua, from my understanding and research,  the answer is probably 
not.    There is a lot of variety in Native American drumming (hundreds of 
different
tribes, some separated by 3,000 miles) but most of the traditions that I 
have heard (and I really went looking in the early 80's to learn as much as 
I could
about that diversity) are consistent with Northern Hemispheric Shamanic 
traditions which are , essentially,  non synconpated
in style.

 The reasons for this is that , frequently,  the constant shamanic rhythms 
(in either constant pulses,  two beat, four beat and
sometimes 'shuffled'  three beat patterns) are played quickly and have a lot 
to do with entrainment that causes theta wave production
in the brain (waves associated with lucid dreaming and 
creativity)....................they are a form of trance induction that is 
very, very different
from the paradigms of central and west african trance music which is very 
syncopative in nature.

The forms of trance states in the two large paradigms (and to talk about 
African rhythm or Shamanic rhythms in one sentence is just plain foolish so 
forgive me the generalizations) have a really different quality.   Having 
been through traditional Peyote Ceremonies as well as Voudoun rituals,  the 
trance states and 'possessions'
are vastly different in a way that's hard to describe.    Roughly put (and 
I'm NO expert),  northern shamanic trance states seem to be more internal
and mental and Voudoun, Condomble, Santeria and other forms of trance states 
involving spirit possession are more external and physical.

As I said,  I'm no expert in these matters but I've read a lot and 
experienced a lot from different trance drumming traditions (including Raves
where large quantities of people were on E) and this is my general 
impression.

Actually,  I really disagree with a lot of things that Bob Brozman theorizes 
about in this fascinating interview.

I've performed with him and made many recordings with him and he's a 
fantastic musician and a very thoughtful and
intelligent human being but he is also very dogmatic about the subject of 
how
colonial and colonized musics effect each other.

I also have had just as much experience as Bob,  interacting, professionally 
and musically with
people from different ethnic musical traditions from the colonial and 
colonized worlds  and I think the interaction of these different paradigms 
are vastly more
complex that he presents them.      This is the subject of a much longer 
post that I'm working on now but I just wanted to go on record to
say that.


 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 30 20:33:34 2008
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Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:33:31 -0400
From: "Dennis Moser" <sinsofmachaut@gmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Bob Brozman
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Rick,

Actually, all those trance-inducement practices depend on their mutual
abilities to trigger the appropriate brain-wave activity (I did a fair
bit of research on the central/west African and eastern South American
[read: Brazil] traditions, as well as the Caribbean ones, both from
the musical and socio-anthropological points of view,  as an
undergrad) ... while the "manifestations" appear different (internal
vs. external, mental vs. physical, etc.,) those can pretty easily be
attributed to the culturally different "set" of the trance-induction
situation itself. Musically, or should I say
physio-psycho-acoustically, the same things are happening in all of
the traditions.

BTW, the two traditions I initially started studying were Candomble
and Umbundu ... despite the use of syncopation in those tradtions, the
essential bass rhythm and frequencies were there and were found to be
the trigger. That got me looking elsewhere pretty quickly.

It all comes down to brainwaves. If you can train in on those, you can
trigger it.

After all, remember what the dormouse said ...

Dennis, who gave up drumming a very long time ago

On 4/30/08, Rick Walker <looppool@cruzio.com> wrote:
> Qua wrote:
>  "Maybe the American drumming changed after the colonizers arrived.. as a
> form of resistance.     no colonizers around to hear the drumming (perhaps
> less march like) in its orig .form   ;-)"
>
>  Actually, Qua, from my understanding and research,  the answer is probably
> not.    There is a lot of variety in Native American drumming (hundreds of
> different
>  tribes, some separated by 3,000 miles) but most of the traditions that I
> have heard (and I really went looking in the early 80's to learn as much as
> I could
>  about that diversity) are consistent with Northern Hemispheric Shamanic
> traditions which are , essentially,  non synconpated
>  in style.
>
>  The reasons for this is that , frequently,  the constant shamanic rhythms
> (in either constant pulses,  two beat, four beat and
>  sometimes 'shuffled'  three beat patterns) are played quickly and have a
> lot to do with entrainment that causes theta wave production
>  in the brain (waves associated with lucid dreaming and
> creativity)....................they are a form of trance
> induction that is very, very different
>  from the paradigms of central and west african trance music which is very
> syncopative in nature.
>
>  The forms of trance states in the two large paradigms (and to talk about
> African rhythm or Shamanic rhythms in one sentence is just plain foolish so
> forgive me the generalizations) have a really different quality.   Having
> been through traditional Peyote Ceremonies as well as Voudoun rituals,  the
> trance states and 'possessions'
>  are vastly different in a way that's hard to describe.    Roughly put (and
> I'm NO expert),  northern shamanic trance states seem to be more internal
>  and mental and Voudoun, Condomble, Santeria and other forms of trance
> states involving spirit possession are more external and physical.
>
>  As I said,  I'm no expert in these matters but I've read a lot and
> experienced a lot from different trance drumming traditions (including Raves
>  where large quantities of people were on E) and this is my general
> impression.
>
>  Actually,  I really disagree with a lot of things that Bob Brozman
> theorizes about in this fascinating interview.
>
>  I've performed with him and made many recordings with him and he's a
> fantastic musician and a very thoughtful and
>  intelligent human being but he is also very dogmatic about the subject of
> how
>  colonial and colonized musics effect each other.
>
>  I also have had just as much experience as Bob,  interacting,
> professionally and musically with
>  people from different ethnic musical traditions from the colonial and
> colonized worlds  and I think the interaction of these different paradigms
> are vastly more
>  complex that he presents them.      This is the subject of a much longer
> post that I'm working on now but I just wanted to go on record to
>  say that.
>
>
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Apr 30 21:44:31 2008
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Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:32:33 -0400
From: "Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T)" <emile@foryourhead.com>
Subject: Fwd: Hofmann dies
To: eyecandy@yahoogroups.com, Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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>Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:21:03 -0400 (EDT)
>From: Michael Massey <mmassey@media.mit.edu>
>To: Emile Tobenfeld <emile@foryourhead.com>
>Subject: Hofmann dies
>
>
>http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hNDRiP53gl6YPZEcojTe2sK6ERWwD90C9KS80
>
>-Mike


-- 

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two 
opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the 
ability to function."

F. Scott Fitzgerald


		Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D.
Video Producer and Digital Photographer	Image Processing Specialist
Video for your HEAD!			Boris FX
http://www.foryourhead.com		http://www.borisfx.com

My photography can be viewed at 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22231918@N06/collections/72157603627170351/