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From: "Bill Fox" <billfox@fast.net>
To: "emusic-wdiy Mailing List" <emusic-wdiy@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: EMUSIC Monthly Top 20 Report for November 2001
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 23:41:15 -0500
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[ Best viewed using a fixed spacing font. ]

WDIY 88.1 FM "EMUSIC" Top 20 report to
New Age Voice and CD Revolutions for November, 2001.
Shows #241 to #245; 1-November-2001 to 29-November-2001
Reported in non-ranked order.
Compiled by Bill Fox, billfox@fast.net

CONTACT:   billfox@fast.net
           http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic/


ARTIST - ALBUM TITLE - LABEL
============================
AirSculpture - Quark Soup - Neu Harmony
AirSculpture - The Hampshire Jam Concert - none
Cyber Zen Sound Engine and Matt Borghi - The Intercepted Transmissions -
N-Light-N Records
David Darling - Cello Blue - Hearts of Space
Free System Projekt - The Hampshire Jam Concert - none
Headshock - The Hampshire Jam Concert - none
James Johnson and Robert Scott Thompson -  Forgotten Places - Zero Music &
Aucourant Records
Lee DiBane - Falling Upwards Into Sky - Eleven One Records
Michael Stearns - The Storm - Spotted Peccary
Paul Ellis - Into the Liquid Unknown - Hypnos|Binary
Radio International Massacre -  Planets in the Wires - Neu Harmony
Radio Massacre International - The Hampshire Jam Concert - none
Saul Stokes - Abstraction - Green House
Stephen Philips and Isomorph - Cave of the Wind - Dark Duck
Steve Roach - Core - Timeroom Editions
Syndromeda - In Touch with the Stars - Groove/Neu Harmony
Under the Dome - The Hampshire Jam Concert - none
Various Artists - Beyond Me - Neu Harmony
Various Artists - Tracks Across the Universe - none
vidnaObmana - Tremor - Release


Bill        billfox@fast.net           http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic
===============================================================================
Host of EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show.  Thursdays at
11 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem and 93.9 FM in Easton and
Phillipsburg.  Email me if you wish to submit music for airplay consideration.
Radio Station Home Page: http://wdiyfm.org
Personal site: http://www.users.fast.net/~billfox
To subscribe to the EMUSIC on WDIY list, go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/emusic-wdiy and click on [Join This Group!]

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec  1 10:22:04 2001
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From: Jeff Blanding <jeff@modaldub.net>
Subject: things to do in Brazil
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hello everyone,

jans' worldbridger email reminded me...

my brother and i are two loopers heading to Brazil from 12-26 to 
1-22. normally we are based in the San Jose and San Francisco, CA, 
areas (we share www.modaldub.net with some friends), but we hope to 
explore new atmospheres and make new friends in magical, musical 
Brazil. if things go well we are planning on returning for a few 
months this summer, with a view towards performing and recording with 
some of the multi-faceted Brazilians.

does anyone on the list have any advice, tips, experience, etc., 
regarding Brazil? we are starting off in Rio and will be moving 
around from there as the melody takes us. i have heard good things 
about liberal politics in Minas Gerais, and music in the north-west, 
as well as good things all around about the towns of Olinda and 
Recife. of course, Rio and Sao Palo have famous music scenes... 
decisions decisions ;)

thanks-in-advance,
jeff

-- 

----- ----- ----- ----- -----

Jeff Blanding
jeff@modaldub.net
http://www.modaldub.net/

----- ----- ----- ----- -----

"Who ever needed a majority? Ten percent plus the police and the 
military is all it ever took."
- William S. Burroughs


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec  1 13:23:41 2001
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Sottilaro" <sine@zerocrossing.net>

> Hey, I put my bass on one of these.  Really good for your shoulder.
>
> http://store.yahoo.com/apollosaxes/gracstanupho.html

Interesting, but I don't think it's so much a problem of the weight of the
bass itself. It's more to do with my rather "less than subdued" stage
mannerisms I used (and probably still would if I were still playing live).
Seeing old crummy video footage of myself onstage brings tears of laughter
and winces in pain as I realise why things hurt now when they never used to.
Problem being is that it's part of the way I play, if I'm "into" the tune, I
can't sit/stand still :)

Doesn't present too much of a problem at the moment as most of my playing is
seated while recording, but in the likely event I return to live playing, I
may need a stand like that anyway if I'm playing bass and some guitar parts.
Plus the guys in hair metal bands back in the late 80s always had those
stands for the acoustic intros to those big power ballads. I always wanted
to feel like a member of Skid Row :)


Simon Kean
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shallow End Swimming (Post-Rock) - http://mp3.com/shallowendswimming
Ulcerate (Alternative/Industrial) - http://mp3.com/ulcerate


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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec  1 16:09:46 2001
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Jan,

It's a damned shame you're not moving to Dallas.  I could 
really use someone like you in the band I'm trying to put 
together (Ambient/Dance/Industrial/Pop/Rock/Tribal/World 
music).  Which Asheville are you leaving - the one in North 
Carolina?  Friend of mine, named Geoff Elmore used to dwell 
there, before he dropped off the face of the earth.

That was a beautiful piece of writing there, man!  Do write 
lyrics for your music?

I've been trying to find music, to learn from, from those same 
parts of the world.  I would suggest the catalogs from 
realworld.com, & oneworld.com.  Additionally, there is a great 
World Music channel on spinner.com, that can expose you to a 
lot of wonderful stuff.  

As for polyrhythmic, try Hossam Ramzy from Egypt - Amazing 
percussionist!

As for Tribal instruments from various parts of the world, I 
highly recommend Novica.com.  They feature hand-made 
instruments from real indigenous artists in various far-flung 
parts of the world.  You can buy a beautiful Djembe from West 
Africa for a mere $125, and you would know the name and history 
of the artist, and how he makes the instruments.  Certainly a 
much better route than buying those mass-produced remo rip-offs 
from Guitar Center at twice the price.

Good luck on your physical, musical, & spiritual journeys.  
PLEASE let us know whenever you have some tunes for us to 
listen to.  I'd love to hear it.

Blessed be,
:-)Michael


From: "Jan Pek" <swirlee@angelfire.com>

so, i have a request for yall. 

im looking for South American tribal music, spirit of the 
rainforest,
grandfather drum, voice of the cloud, to South America what 
Farafina is
to Africa... something polyrhythmic, polymetric, whatever you 
want to
call it, building repetition. someone, give me the words!

i'm moving Asheville -> NYC feeling as though i may get spit 
out on
another world journey, and am magnetizing africa (guinea? 
senegal? dogon
and the nommo?) and s. america (ecuador? brazil? bolivia?) for 
world
bridging. i know i'm here to embody spirit, to bring magic to 
the flesh.
the way of technology magic-- i've spent most of my life there, 
on the
outside, in the crystal megahertz.

so i am learning another way, the long road back to embodiment, 
the 'red
pill', if you will. because the guides tell me the next leg of 
training
as shaman is in the primitive, embodying spirit in dance, 
breath, voice,
drum, trance. the animals. 

so where can i exist on that edge? can i place myself where i 
can honor
and learn from the tribes without eroding their culture? how to 
exit the
tourist conveyorbelt and become of service to these indigenous 
people,
so that we can recognize, we are all indigenous. is there not a 
mystery
school somewhere, teetering on that precipice where the voice 
is the
synthesizer, the body is levity, the breath is operating system 
upgrade,
time is echoplex, where Western magic is tenderly and 
appropriately
introduced, built with spirit of the local land, not bulldozed 
like
formula over tender rainforest shoots? shit, there must be. 
where is it?
right under your nose?

fuzzy and blue,
yon



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec  1 19:25:07 2001
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Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 21:51:28 -0300
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From: Matthias Grob <matthias@grob.org>
Subject: Re: worldbridger
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>And Jan definitely gets my vote for Poet Laureate of Looping!

totally agreed!

>(with Matthias running a very close second)

very flattering, thank you. I never thought of myself as being 
poetic, though. Exept for the emails I dont even read anything...
I had a totally scientific education, from my father and at the 
university, but I am not serious in this, nor as a philosopher... its 
some strange combination...

I rarely remember dreams, but two nights ago, I had a rather bad, 
stressy one, where I had to give a speach about my work at a congress 
in Sao Paulo. I was proud to do so, but nevertheless I arrived late 
and unprepared. Even though I had realized there was a scientific 
public I got into praising the phantastic capacities of our hearing 
and magic of music... I suddenly saw the cruxial connection between 
the physical hearing and the understanding of it in form of a huge 
multipin connector and thought I had captured and expressed a big 
truth (improvizing, as always ;-). But when I looked into the public 
again, there was almost no one left... I even went into some 
discussion with the organizer, promessing that next time I would talk 
about pickups and bring some pictures to project, but he turned his 
back on me, and I woke up, feeling bad...
I tried to recapture the secret that I felt and the connector was 
only a symbol for - in vain.
But then a nice picture came to at least ilustrate the tremendous 
capacity of that little organ with just a peace of skin, two less 
than precise bones and a bunch of hair in a irregular cone... I will 
have to elaborate it, and I hope it turns into an opening for some 
speach for a not so scientific public ;-)
-- 


          ---> http://Matthias.Grob.org

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec  1 19:44:49 2001
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boys!!!-

>right under your nose. seriously. :-)

>>i totally agree.
>>
>>but wait...
>>competitive poetry?
>>a new olympic event?
>>wait!
>>olympic philosophy!
>>
>** sure, but can't you see it now: professional improvisational poetry.
>cities with lots of drunk guys with bizarrely painted faces sitting in
>huge stadia as their poetry squad takes on the visiting team. sixteen
>teams, broken into four divisions, all vying for a chance to get in the
>playoffs. championship banners hung high and proud. free agency, inflated
>salaries, anti-trust exemption from congress.

you are funny, i love.

-yon



Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/

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Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 03:28:16 +0100
From: Emmanuel PERILLE <perille@club-internet.fr>
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For those interested in DJ looping,

DJRND3 is actually in USA, in Florida.
Please contact me if some one of you, loopers, wants to see it.
Thanks
Emmanuel


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec  2 01:50:41 2001
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Subject: The Ambient Ping presents dreamSTATE
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 01:27:02 -0500
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THE AMBiENT PiNG   http://www.theambientping.com
Every Tuesday Night - doors open at 9pm - 1st set at 9:30
@ club nia / C'est What - 19 Church St. at Front St. - Toronto
        3 blocks east of the Union Station subway.
        map - http://www.cestwhat.com/map.html 
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Tuesday Dec.4th 2001 - dreamSTATE with General Chaos Visuals

In their only scheduled Ping engagement this winter, deep ambient
explorers dreamSTATE create one of their increasingly rare live
performances of swirling soundscapes, dark drones and rippling
sequences. As Scott M2 and Jamie Todd weave their electronic
atmospherics and loops, Steve Lindsey and Eric Siegerman of
General Chaos Visuals will be adding their brilliant ambient light
projections to the sound environment and taking the show on a
trip into other dimensions.    http://www.dreamSTATE.to
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

The Ambient Ping presents free live performances by Toronto's
finest ambient, chill-out and experimental music artists plus
performers from across the continent, every Tuesday at club nia
(aka C'est What) featuring a comfortable lower stage area, perfect
for attentive listening, plus a higher level with a bar, back room
and more seating that's great for conversation, good food and
the club's impressive beer, wine and whiskey selection. 
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec  2 10:40:12 2001
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Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 07:08:32 -0800
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Hey--
I'm in Orlando til the 7th of December--where can I see DJRND3?
Also, any public looping going on near DisneyWorld?  I'll wear my new
shirt!!
Gary
PS  I'm afraid to call Emmett Bradford, even tho my Mitigator now says
Memory failure when I boot and he lives, like, 20 minutes from where I'm
staying.  He doesn't support the Lake Butler stuff anymore.  Anybody know
what my problem is?
G

-----Original Message-----
From: Emmanuel PERILLE [mailto:perille@club-internet.fr]
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 6:28 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: DJRND3 in USA


For those interested in DJ looping,

DJRND3 is actually in USA, in Florida.
Please contact me if some one of you, loopers, wants to see it.
Thanks
Emmanuel


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec  2 13:44:40 2001
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To see the DJRND3, I invite interested people to contact Mr Laurent Cohen of
Stanton Magnetics so we could organize a meeting for a US demo in a show room

Emmanuel

Candace Meyer wrote :

> Hey--
> I'm in Orlando til the 7th of December--where can I see DJRND3?
> Also, any public looping going on near DisneyWorld?  I'll wear my new
> shirt!!
> Gary
> PS  I'm afraid to call Emmett Bradford, even tho my Mitigator now says
> Memory failure when I boot and he lives, like, 20 minutes from where I'm
> staying.  He doesn't support the Lake Butler stuff anymore.  Anybody know
> what my problem is?
> G
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Emmanuel PERILLE [mailto:perille@club-internet.fr]
> Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 6:28 PM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: DJRND3 in USA
>
> For those interested in DJ looping,
>
> DJRND3 is actually in USA, in Florida.
> Please contact me if some one of you, loopers, wants to see it.
> Thanks
> Emmanuel

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec  2 16:00:54 2001
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Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 18:32:43 -0300
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From: Matthias Grob <matthias@grob.org>
Subject: Re: worldbridger
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>so, i have a request for yall.
>
>im looking for South American tribal music, spirit of the 
>rainforest, grandfather drum, voice of the cloud, to South America 
>what Farafina is to Africa... something polyrhythmic, polymetric, 
>whatever you want to call it, building repetition. someone, give me 
>the words!

the shaman thing sounds much simpler than african music. I did not 
recognize polyrhythm so far. Its dominated by the strong and regular 
sh-sh-sh of the maracas.
I dont know where the magic is, but it may be rather in the trance of 
the straight pulse.

>i've spent most of my life there, on the outside, in the crystal megahertz.

:-)

>so i am learning another way, the long road back to embodiment, the 
>'red pill', if you will. because the guides tell me the next leg of 
>training as shaman is in the primitive, embodying spirit in dance, 
>breath, voice, drum, trance. the animals.

... and tea!

>so where can i exist on that edge? can i place myself where i can 
>honor and learn from the tribes without eroding their culture? how 
>to exit the tourist conveyorbelt and become of service to these 
>indigenous people, so that we can recognize, we are all indigenous.

There are tribes of any degree of approach to civilization. Some 
still never saw any of it, but you wont finde those anyway. Others 
live in complicated contraditions and all kinds of sad and intersting 
mixtures between their tradition and the new influences. But even 
though the kassiki has a car now, he can still teach you a lot!
I visited a tribe once and it was not quite simple gain their 
confidence. But they were also proud to show off their ritual and I 
recorded it. Then they told me that many had recorded it and all had 
promissed to send a copy and never did. So I did. They have a CD of 
their music now. The friend that brought it there said they were 
highly pleased. And I dont think I harmed anything, because they had 
a CD player before.
I also had to promiss not to distribute the recording without their 
participation.
Of course. Then I became aware of available recording of similar style...

Also, preservation is not really a principle of nature, its a man 
made, fear driven, and often against evolution - which does not 
justify some of the distructivity of man!

>is there not a mystery school somewhere, teetering on that precipice 
>where the voice is the synthesizer, the body is levity, the breath 
>is operating system upgrade, time is echoplex, where Western magic 
>is tenderly and appropriately introduced, built with spirit of the 
>local land, not bulldozed like formula over tender rainforest 
>shoots? shit, there must be.

you are welcome to create one!

>where is it? right under your nose?

depends of the size of your nose...

>fuzzy and blue,
>yon
>

-- 


          ---> http://Matthias.Grob.org

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec  2 16:02:18 2001
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Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 18:32:43 -0300
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From: Matthias Grob <matthias@grob.org>
Subject: Re: things to do in Brazil
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>hello everyone,
>
>jans' worldbridger email reminded me...
>
>my brother and i are two loopers heading to Brazil from 12-26 to 
>1-22. normally we are based in the San Jose and San Francisco, CA, 
>areas (we share www.modaldub.net with some friends), but we hope to 
>explore new atmospheres and make new friends in magical, musical 
>Brazil. if things go well we are planning on returning for a few 
>months this summer, with a view towards performing and recording 
>with some of the multi-faceted Brazilians.

as long as you dont expect to earn money, or even put some, a lot is possible.

>does anyone on the list have any advice, tips, experience, etc., 
>regarding Brazil? we are starting off in Rio and will be moving 
>around from there as the melody takes us. i have heard good things 
>about liberal politics in Minas Gerais, and music in the north-west, 
>as well as good things all around about the towns of Olinda and 
>Recife. of course, Rio and Sao Palo have famous music scenes... 
>decisions decisions ;)

Rio is nice (just dont go to CopaCabana where the theives wait for you)
Sao Paulo is interesting due to big offer, but no nice place to stay (stress)
Cities of the NorthEast are beautifull and relaxed and have nice beaches.
Recife maybe the most musically "boiling" right now.
Music of Minas Gerais is nice, elaborated, soft, sensible...

Some names for a panorama of "original" actual music:

Rio and South: Adriana Calcagnoto, Zizi Possi, Gabriel Pensador, 
Egberto Gismonti,
	Ed Motta, Lobao, Boca Livre, Arrigo Barnabe...
Recife: Zeca Balerio, Chico Science, Mestre Ambrosio...
Salvador: Gilberto Gil, Carlinhos Brown, Marisa Monte...
Minas: Milton Nascimento, Toinho Horta (Pat Methenys idol), Uakti 
(instrument creators)


Since local air fares are pretty high (especially in this season, 
Rio-Salvador for example US$ 180 / 2h), consider buying a AirPass, a 
ticket that allows you to travel 3 weeks. You can only buy it outside 
of Brasil.

Traveling by bus is nice, fun, relaxing, cheap, on the hour. 
(Rio-Salvador for example US$ 40 / 30h). The Rodoviaria is much 
closer to the city, so you also save Taxi.

In january, I have another looper visit from US, but I sure can help 
by telefone or personally if you come to Salvador. I know a few 
loopers, too.

Welcome!
Matthias

-- 


          ---> http://Matthias.Grob.org

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec  2 17:14:39 2001
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You are certainly all aware of the fact there exits out there several,
not to say numerous, CDs provided to give a "hell of an experience as
far as weird textures are concerned".
Recently, I came at a friend's place, acroos a CD, Akai format, called
something like Pandora tool box.
Maybe some one knows it?
Because some "sounds" have me puzzled...
If someoenes here can hear it, I suggest one take a "lokk" at these
programs:
regretlessly
eeoyee
submar brave
tulkhed

For a start.
Either  a well known guitar player, intervening sometimes here, and
quite alooper to say the least has been part of the team on this CD or
something is very wrong...

When it doesn't look like it directly out of "Tripping over God" or from
"What means solid...." with a very light touch of added treatments, it
is definitely feeling like his way of treating loops.

Of course I may be totally wrong, I may mistake my wife for a hat, or
whatever.Maybe I' deluded or my ears ned tuning...

I'd like to have some advice on this....

Olivier


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Subject: Re: Pandora tool box: I'm not at ease...
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'Pandora's Toolbox' is indeed by David Torn. It's from Sonic Foundry's Acid
Loops library; I'd put the URL here, but the SF site appears to be down at
the moment. (If any of you check it later and plan on buying something,
remember to go in through the link on the LD homepage so LD will get a
commission!)

-t-

At 10:42 PM 12/2/01 +0100, m. malhomme wrote:
>Recently, I came at a friend's place, acroos a CD, Akai format, called
>something like Pandora tool box.
>Maybe some one knows it?
....
>Either  a well known guitar player, intervening sometimes here, and
>quite alooper to say the least has been part of the team on this CD or
>something is very wrong...
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec  2 18:54:04 2001
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Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 18:23:34 EST
Subject: Re: Pandora tool box: I'm not at ease...
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olivier,
>You are certainly all aware of the fact there exits out there several,
>not to say numerous, CDs provided to give a "hell of an experience as
>far as weird textures are concerned".
>Recently, I came at a friend's place, acroos a CD, Akai format, called
>something like Pandora tool box.
>Maybe some one knows it?
i know it; i made it.
it was the second of my three sample-discs, in this order:
1) tonal textures
2) pandora's toolbox (w/cover art by mick karn, photos by steve jansen)
3) splattercell loops for ACID

>Because some "sounds" have me puzzled...
>If someoenes here can hear it, I suggest one take a "lokk" at these
>programs:
>regretlessly
>eeoyee
>submar brave
>tulkhed
right.

>For a start.
>Either  a well known guitar player, intervening sometimes here, and
>quite alooper to say the least has been part of the team on this CD or
>something is very wrong...
there was no team; just me.
maybe something's wrong, anyway.
*-)

>When it doesn't look like it directly out of "Tripping over God" or from
>"What means solid...." with a very light touch of added treatments, it
>is definitely feeling like his way of treating loops.
some of the material on 'pandora' comes from 'tripping....' and 'wms,t'.
some of the material on 'splattercell loops for ACID' comes from the same 
sessions as 'splattercell ::: OAH'.

>Of course I may be totally wrong, I may mistake my wife for a hat, or
>whatever.Maybe I' deluded or my ears ned tuning...
olivier malhomme, ou oliver sachs?

best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec  2 22:08:09 2001
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From: Hedewa7@aol.com
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Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 21:39:02 EST
Subject: Re: Pandora tool box: I'm not at ease...
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tnelson@metrocast.net writes:
>'Pandora's Toolbox' is indeed by David Torn. It's from Sonic Foundry's
>Acid
>Loops library; I'd put the URL here, but the SF site appears to be down
>at
>the moment. (If any of you check it later and plan on buying something,
>remember to go in through the link on the LD homepage so LD will get a
>commission!)
.....actually, the 'pandora's toolbox' that SF distributes is a(n only 
partially authorised) & intensely smallerised version of the original, 
complete 'pandora's toolbox', which is distributed by Q-UP Arts.
thanks.
best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec  3 00:52:36 2001
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Looks like Stanton Magnetics is in Ft. Lauderdale--little too far from
Orlando for me to drive, but congrats to Emmanuel on this progress and I
look forward to seeing and hearing this unit when I get a chance!
Gary Lehmann (on vacation in Florida and using the laptop--but Candy says
hi!)

-----Original Message-----
From: Emmanuel PERILLE [mailto:perille@club-internet.fr]
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 10:16 AM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: DJRND3 in USA; also Central FLORIDA Loopers


To see the DJRND3, I invite interested people to contact Mr Laurent Cohen of
Stanton Magnetics so we could organize a meeting for a US demo in a show
room

Emmanuel
>
> For those interested in DJ looping,
>
> DJRND3 is actually in USA, in Florida.
> Please contact me if some one of you, loopers, wants to see it.
> Thanks
> Emmanuel

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec  3 10:32:18 2001
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Old-Return-Path: <sginn@airmail.net>
From: "M. Steven Ginn" <sginn@airmail.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Ezbus is shipping
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 09:01:26 -0600
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For those of you in need of more ins and outs for looping, I just
learned from the Event web site that the Ezbus is now shipping!

Steve

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec  3 12:39:25 2001
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Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 12:04:24 -0500
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From: "Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T)" <emile@foryourhead.com>
Subject: Video Performance 12.8.01 @Zeitgeist Gallery Cambridge
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Hi folks,

I'll be doing video improvisations this Saturday night with some old 
friends at the Zeitgeist Gallery.


ERIC ZINMAN TRIO

Eric Zinman - piano
John Voigt - bass
Laurence Cook - drums


entre-acte:
PAUL ZUTRAU CONSORT

Paul Zutrau - rennaissance lute
Robin Tinker - vocal
               -recorder

NEIL LEONARD - sax, electronics
MICHAEL EVANS - percussion, electronics

DR.T - cyber video projection

Door @ 8
$10 donation, or best offer

ZEITGEIST GALLERY 312 Broadway, Cambridge 617.876.2182
corner Norfolk, off Central Sq.
Central Sq Redline T Stop
All ages
Wheelchair accessable

WWW.ZEITGEIST-GALLERY.ORG

booking: <robchalfen@hotmail.com>

-- 

"Trouble ahead, trouble behind,
           and you know that notion just crossed my mind"
      --  Robert Hunter

Visit "Before the Fall -- Images of the World Trade Center" at 
http://www.foryourhead.com

		Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D.
Video Producer			Image Processing Specialist
Video for your HEAD!			Boris FX
http://www.foryourhead.com		http://www.borisfx.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec  3 13:11:00 2001
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Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 09:39:44 -0800
Subject: reaktor/pwrbk combo useable?
From: e   o <eric@soundsliketree.com>
To: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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Having just lugged my heavy rack on an off of ferries and taxies for the
last few weeks, I am more interested than ever in finding a software
solution.

I have a Pismo G3/500 powerbook (w/VX Pocket interface) and was wondering if
Reaktor 3 would enable me to effectively "replace" that rack.  The very
basics of the features would need to emulate looping (my EDP), multi-FX (I
have a Vortex and Quadraverb), and harmonization would be nice too (Digitech
Studio 5000).

Has anyone had any experience with Reaktor and a Pismo?  How is the latency
and the effects quality?  Did you have enough CPU to do wacky stuff?

Many thanks,
eo

--
eric oberthaler
http://www.soundsliketree.com
(utter music within)


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec  3 14:05:18 2001
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From: "Os" <lists@collective.co.uk>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <B830F8DF.9671%eric@soundsliketree.com>
Subject: Re: reaktor/pwrbk combo useable?
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 18:35:15 -0000
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I'll let you know in about a week when my Powerbook arrives!

Reaktor's great though, I use it on my desktop machine right now.

A Pismo would be up to most stuff that you'd need in a live situation -
especially if you don't run Reaktor at 44.1kHz (show me the PA where you'd
notice the difference!).

The thing you'd miss would be the all the knobs/footswitches etc.


cheers,
os.

os@collective.co.uk
http://www.collective.co.uk/
http://www.burningshed.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "e o" <eric@soundsliketree.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 5:39 PM
Subject: reaktor/pwrbk combo useable?


> Having just lugged my heavy rack on an off of ferries and taxies for the
> last few weeks, I am more interested than ever in finding a software
> solution.
>
> I have a Pismo G3/500 powerbook (w/VX Pocket interface) and was wondering
if
> Reaktor 3 would enable me to effectively "replace" that rack.  The very
> basics of the features would need to emulate looping (my EDP), multi-FX (I
> have a Vortex and Quadraverb), and harmonization would be nice too
(Digitech
> Studio 5000).
>
> Has anyone had any experience with Reaktor and a Pismo?  How is the
latency
> and the effects quality?  Did you have enough CPU to do wacky stuff?
>
> Many thanks,
> eo
>
> --
> eric oberthaler
> http://www.soundsliketree.com
> (utter music within)
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec  3 14:24:47 2001
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Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 13:22:28 -0500
From: Legion <Legion@helpwantedproductions.com>
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For anyone interested I finally broke down and  listed an Original NOS
Bass Microsynth on Egobay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1492961770

There is a buy it now price for those that don't like auctions. I know I
certainly don't but my guitarist threatened to miss our next two gigs if
I didn't put this up :)

____________________________________________________________________
HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.HelpWantedProductions.com
"Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..."

Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and
info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more.



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec  3 15:17:34 2001
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From: Darcy Clark <darcyc@engin.umich.edu>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com'"
	 <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: reaktor/pwrbk combo useable?
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 14:47:00 -0500 
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I checked out Reaktor a little bit as a possible way to avoid having to buy
a Repeater, and in my short experience with it, I found that it was
seemingly impossible to build a looper much beyond a long delay style of
thing - I couldn't find a way to handle tap tempo, which to me was a
show-stopper - that's not to say it couldn't be done, but I didn't see how
it could be done. Of course Reaktor appears to be very cool for many other
things, but I'm fairly sure that would be very hard pressed to replace your
EDP with it.

Darcy

> -----Original Message-----
> From: e o [mailto:eric@soundsliketree.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 12:40 PM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: reaktor/pwrbk combo useable?
> 
> 
> Having just lugged my heavy rack on an off of ferries and 
> taxies for the
> last few weeks, I am more interested than ever in finding a software
> solution.
> 
> I have a Pismo G3/500 powerbook (w/VX Pocket interface) and 
> was wondering if
> Reaktor 3 would enable me to effectively "replace" that rack. 
>  The very
> basics of the features would need to emulate looping (my 
> EDP), multi-FX (I
> have a Vortex and Quadraverb), and harmonization would be 
> nice too (Digitech
> Studio 5000).
> 
> Has anyone had any experience with Reaktor and a Pismo?  How 
> is the latency
> and the effects quality?  Did you have enough CPU to do wacky stuff?
> 
> Many thanks,
> eo
> 
> --
> eric oberthaler
> http://www.soundsliketree.com
> (utter music within)
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec  3 15:41:33 2001
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Subject: hollywood, ca, usa, gig spam
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:10:55 -0500 
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C17C36.9DA46740
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Scot Ray Quintet 
Dec.7th & 8th

Rocco's                            
6320 Santa Monica Blvd.
http://www.roccoinla.com/

11 p.m. / 2 sets (doors open at 10:30)
$10 cover

Nels Cline - guitar/loopage
Jeff Gauthier - violin
Steuart Liebig - bass/(some) loopage
Alex Cline - drums/percussion
Scot Ray - trombone/compositions

An evening of extreme-jazz, avant-funk, liquid-americana and skronk-blues
experimentation! 
The LA Weekly extols, "Scot Ray is a trombonist with an exciting new plan.
Ray veers from 
texture to texture, form to form, but with enough structure to keep
everything from rolling 
off the table.  The scattering and unifying drum opportunities surely appeal
to percussionist 
Alex Cline. The intuitive relation to scored line and eventual improvisation
is violinist 
Gauthier's forte.  Bassist Liebig will dig deep into Ray's intermittent
grooves, then generate 
waves of noise that'll scare a moose.  And guitarist Nels Cline loves
playing those tight 
unison lines and fogging out the big clouds of electronic atmosphere that
Ray demands and 
helps create.  Ray has also played in the Brian Setzer Orchestra.  But
anyone expecting swing 
revivals here will weep bitter tears."






<font size="1">Confidentiality Warning:  This e-mail contains information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above.  If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, any dissemination, publication or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. The sender does not accept any responsibility for any loss, disruption or damage to your data or computer system that may occur while using data contained in, or transmitted with, this e-mail.   If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us by return e-mail.  Thank you.


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1">
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<TITLE>hollywood, ca, usa, gig spam</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Scot Ray Quintet </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Dec.7th &amp; 8th</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Rocco's&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>6320 Santa Monica Blvd.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2><A HREF=3D"http://www.roccoinla.com/" TARGET=3D"_blank">=
http://www.roccoinla.com/</A></FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>11 p.m. / 2 sets (doors open at 10:30)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>$10 cover</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Nels Cline - guitar/loopage</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Jeff Gauthier - violin</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Steuart Liebig - bass/(some) loopage</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Alex Cline - drums/percussion</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Scot Ray - trombone/compositions</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>An evening of extreme-jazz, avant-funk, liquid-americana =
and skronk-blues experimentation! </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>The LA Weekly extols, &quot;Scot Ray is a trombonist wit=
h an exciting new plan.&nbsp; Ray veers from </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>texture to texture, form to form, but with enough struct=
ure to keep everything from rolling </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>off the table.&nbsp; The scattering and unifying drum op=
portunities surely appeal to percussionist </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Alex Cline. The intuitive relation to scored line and ev=
entual improvisation is violinist </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Gauthier's forte.&nbsp; Bassist Liebig will dig deep int=
o Ray's intermittent grooves, then generate </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>waves of noise that'll scare a moose.&nbsp; And guitaris=
t Nels Cline loves playing those tight </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>unison lines and fogging out the big clouds of electroni=
c atmosphere that Ray demands and </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>helps create.&nbsp; Ray has also played in the Brian Set=
zer Orchestra.&nbsp; But anyone expecting swing </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>revivals here will weep bitter tears.&quot;</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>

<CODE><FONT SIZE=3D3><BR>
<BR>
<font size=3D"1">Confidentiality Warning:  This e-mail contains information=
 intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above.  If the=
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nt responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, any disseminati=
on, publication or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. The sende=
r does not accept any responsibility for any loss, disruption or damage to =
your data or computer system that may occur while using data contained in, =
or transmitted with, this e-mail.   If you have received this e-mail in err=
or, please immediately notify us by return e-mail.  Thank you.<BR>
</FONT></CODE>
</BODY>
</HTML>
------_=_NextPart_001_01C17C36.9DA46740--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec  3 16:26:59 2001
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Liebig, Steuart A. wrote:
> 
> Scot Ray Quintet
> Dec.7th & 8th
> 
> Rocco's                           
> 6320 Santa Monica Blvd.
> http://www.roccoinla.com/
> 
> 11 p.m. / 2 sets (doors open at 10:30)
> $10 cover
> 
> Nels Cline - guitar/loopage
> Jeff Gauthier - violin
> Steuart Liebig - bass/(some) loopage
> Alex Cline - drums/percussion
> Scot Ray - trombone/compositions
 
This sounds great Stuart!!
Is there any chance you'll be taping ?

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec  3 17:28:01 2001
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If I go I can bring a MD - maybe they will let me tap the board? 

Cliff

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "scott kungha drengsen" <kungha@earthlink.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: hollywood, ca, usa, gig spam


> Liebig, Steuart A. wrote:
> > 
> > Scot Ray Quintet
> > Dec.7th & 8th
> > 
> > Rocco's 
> > 6320 Santa Monica Blvd.
> > http://www.roccoinla.com/
> > 
> > 11 p.m. / 2 sets (doors open at 10:30)
> > $10 cover
> > 
> > Nels Cline - guitar/loopage
> > Jeff Gauthier - violin
> > Steuart Liebig - bass/(some) loopage
> > Alex Cline - drums/percussion
> > Scot Ray - trombone/compositions
>  
> This sounds great Stuart!!
> Is there any chance you'll be taping ?
> 


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Subject: EMUSIC Playlist #245
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 17:04:44 -0500
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[ Best viewed using a fixed spacing font. ]

EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show, airs each Thursday
at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem, PA and 93.9 FM in
Easton, PA and Phillipsburg, NJ.

                    Show #245                    November 29, 2001.


RECAP:
On this show, I concluded the month-long focus on The Hampshire Jam, a concert
that sprang up to fill the void felt by the cancellation of some of this year's
EM festivsls.  The Featured CD at Midnight was replaced by the minidisc
recording of Radio Massacre International's set.  The set by AirSculpture was
played in the first hour of EMSUIC to make up for its ommission when it was
originally scheduled.  Thanks to Andy Bloyce for engineering the recording so
that I could relax and enjoy the show!

The vinyl show starter, a new feature of the show leftover from WDIY's Salute
to Records, was by Robert Schroder.

The Hampshire Jam
http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic/playlists/2001/focus01.html#nov


PLAYLIST:

ARTIST                  TRACK                    ALBUM (label)
======================= ======================== ==============================
11:04 pm
Robert Schroder         Future Passing By        Harmonic Ascendant (IC)
AirSculpture            Part 1                   Hampshire Jam Concert (none)
AirSculpture            Part 2                   Hampshire Jam Concert (none)

12:00 am
Stephen Philips and     Cave of the Wind *       Cave of the Wind (Dark Duck)
  Isomorph
RMI                     Diabolica                Hampshire Jam Concert (none)
RMI                     What's The Point Of      Hampshire Jam Concert (none)
                          Going to Crete
RMI                     Free Biscuits and Baccy  Hampshire Jam Concert (none)
RMI                     Pipe                     Hampshire Jam Concert (none)
RMI                     Let Me Hear You Say      Hampshire Jam Concert (none)
                          Yeah!

1:00 am

 * = exerpt
VA = Various Artists (compilation)


NEXT SHOW:
On the next EMUSIC, I'll begin a month-long focus on <a
href="focus01.html#dec">Orbital Decay</a>, a band from
nearby Quakertown.  The Feature CD at Midnight will be the band's "Drastic
Park" CDR.

Next week's vinyl show starter will be by Tim Blake.


Bill        billfox@fast.net           http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic
===============================================================================
Host of EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show.  Thursdays at
11 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem and 93.9 FM in Easton and
Phillipsburg.  Email me if you wish to submit music for airplay consideration.
Radio Station Home Page: http://wdiyfm.org
Personal site: http://www.users.fast.net/~billfox
To subscribe to the EMUSIC on WDIY list, go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/emusic-wdiy and click on [Join This Group!]

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Subject: RE: hollywood, ca, usa, gig spam
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** scot seems to tape the gigs - - he taped last saturday's gig in san
diego. i think this 5tet is gonna record a "real" record in the early part
of next year. it's a pretty rockin' band. good tunes.

stig

 
This sounds great Stuart!!
Is there any chance you'll be taping ?


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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>** scot seems to tape the gigs - - he taped last saturday=
's gig in san diego. i think this 5tet is gonna record a &quot;real&quot; r=
ecord in the early part of next year. it's a pretty rockin' band. good tune=
s.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>stig</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>This sounds great Stuart!!</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Is there any chance you'll be taping ?</FONT>
</P>

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 dunno.

i'm not the band leader - - you'd have to ask scot . . . and then ask the
club. tho', there really isn't much that'll be going through the board. it's
not a huge venue and scot is starting to bring his own amp. pretty much
self-contained in terms of amplification.

stig

-----Original Message-----
From: Clifford@BienAppraisers [mailto:res0koq3@verizon.net]
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 1:57 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: hollywood, ca, usa, gig spam


If I go I can bring a MD - maybe they will let me tap the board? 

Cliff

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "scott kungha drengsen" <kungha@earthlink.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: hollywood, ca, usa, gig spam


> Liebig, Steuart A. wrote:
> > 
> > Scot Ray Quintet
> > Dec.7th & 8th
> > 
> > Rocco's 
> > 6320 Santa Monica Blvd.
> > http://www.roccoinla.com/
> > 
> > 11 p.m. / 2 sets (doors open at 10:30)
> > $10 cover
> > 
> > Nels Cline - guitar/loopage
> > Jeff Gauthier - violin
> > Steuart Liebig - bass/(some) loopage
> > Alex Cline - drums/percussion
> > Scot Ray - trombone/compositions
>  
> This sounds great Stuart!!
> Is there any chance you'll be taping ?
> 



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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;dunno.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>i'm not the band leader - - you'd have to ask scot . . . =
and then ask the club. tho', there really isn't much that'll be going throu=
gh the board. it's not a huge venue and scot is starting to bring his own a=
mp. pretty much self-contained in terms of amplification.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>stig</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Clifford@BienAppraisers [<A HREF=3D"mailto:res0koq=
3@verizon.net">mailto:res0koq3@verizon.net</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 1:57 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: Re: hollywood, ca, usa, gig spam</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>If I go I can bring a MD - maybe they will let me tap the=
 board? </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cliff</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: &quot;scott kungha drengsen&quot; &lt;kungha@earth=
link.net&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: &lt;Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 1:00 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: Re: hollywood, ca, usa, gig spam</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Liebig, Steuart A. wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Scot Ray Quintet</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Dec.7th &amp; 8th</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Rocco's </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; 6320 Santa Monica Blvd.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; <A HREF=3D"http://www.roccoinla.com/" TARGET=
=3D"_blank">http://www.roccoinla.com/</A></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; 11 p.m. / 2 sets (doors open at 10:30)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; $10 cover</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Nels Cline - guitar/loopage</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Jeff Gauthier - violin</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Steuart Liebig - bass/(some) loopage</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Alex Cline - drums/percussion</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &gt; Scot Ray - trombone/compositions</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;&nbsp; </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; This sounds great Stuart!!</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Is there any chance you'll be taping ?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; </FONT>
</P>

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Also Scot is a wonderful player--chops and taste--sorry I missed the Spruce
Street gig
Gary
PS  Still looking for loopers who are ready to play out--want to discuss
potential gigs in San Diego.
G

** scot seems to tape the gigs - - he taped last saturday's gig in san
diego. i think this 5tet is gonna record a "real" record in the early part
of next year. it's a pretty rockin' band. good tunes.
stig

This sounds great Stuart!!
Is there any chance you'll be taping ?



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Also Scot is a wonderful player--chops and taste--

** sure is - - but that taste thing is overrated ;-)

stig


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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Also Scot is a wonderful player--chops and taste--</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>** sure is - - but that taste thing is overrated ;-)</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>stig</FONT>
</P>

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Hi everybody,

I'm new in this mailing list and trying to find an EDP for sale in France. 
Does anybody know someone or a site who sells one ?

Thanks,

Paul


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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec  3 20:57:54 2001
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Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 20:21:58 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Tim Nelson <tnelson@metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: Looking for Echoplex Digital Pro
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At 01:32 AM 12/4/01 +0100, you wrote:
>I'm new in this mailing list and trying to find an EDP for sale in France. 
>Does anybody know someone or a site who sells one ?

Gibson's still pending CE approval for Europe, but Zenker LTD in
Switzerland is selling them. (Zenker, LTD Feierabendstrasse 22, CH-4003
Basel Switzerland)
<http://www.zenker.ch>

-t-

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 01:31:51 2001
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Subject: More details about SF Field Recording show. 
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 22:01:44 -0800
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Ok, here is the show as we know it:

Friday, December 14th
934 Natoma St (Between Mission and Howard, and between 10th and 11th. Approx 
1.5 blocks from Market/Van Ness)
Doors open at 8, show starts at 8:30 sharp.

Music created from field recordings by:

Loren Chasse
The Quiet American
Tape Recorder (Matt Davignon)

(Steve Rodan too, if he can make it.)

Video projection by

Carl Diehl
Richard Holland
(Perhaps more video projection by Loren Chasse, and Keith Evans of Silt.)

Price: $6 to $10 sliding scale. Nobody turned away for lack of funds.

The next announcement will probably be the official one, with all the 
"probably's" figured out. This is just a heads-up since the show is next 
Friday.


Matt


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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 04:44:39 2001
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Subject: Re: reaktor/pwrbk combo useable?
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 09:09:40 -0000
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I have seen Reaktor patches with tap tempo, so it must be possible, if not
obvious.

If it was Reaktor 2.3 you checked out, you should definitely check 3.0 as it
contains some important additions.

I'm no Reaktor evangelist, and I think dedicated hardware will always win on
usability, but the joy of laptop/software is that you can have as much crazy
stuff as you like without having to carry it, plus with Reaktor you can
change anything. Wish the max delay time was a bit longer? Just edit the
patch. Wish there was a phaser in the left channel feedback loop? Just add
one in.

As ever though, the answer is to play with the demo & see if it gets your
juices flowing.

Also - whoever it was that started this thread might like to consider
MAX/MSP as well.


cheers,
os.

os@collective.co.uk
http://www.collective.co.uk/
http://www.burningshed.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Darcy Clark" <darcyc@engin.umich.edu>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 7:47 PM
Subject: RE: reaktor/pwrbk combo useable?


> I checked out Reaktor a little bit as a possible way to avoid having to
buy
> a Repeater, and in my short experience with it, I found that it was
> seemingly impossible to build a looper much beyond a long delay style of
> thing - I couldn't find a way to handle tap tempo, which to me was a
> show-stopper - that's not to say it couldn't be done, but I didn't see how
> it could be done. Of course Reaktor appears to be very cool for many other
> things, but I'm fairly sure that would be very hard pressed to replace
your
> EDP with it.


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 05:00:43 2001
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Subject: RE: Looking for Echoplex Digital Pro
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 03:28:27 -0600
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Dear All,
The good news is that after many months and a substantial amount of
cash, (over Ģ10K), I now have CE-approval for the Echoplex with all the
paperwork to prove it. 
I have put an order in today for 500 boards and sets of components but
due to some long lead-times, it will be end of Feb start of march before
they are in the shops.
There are many additions inside the unit, including a filtered mains
inlet, a 4-layer PCB, screening cans on the Codec & processor and an
additional 35 capacitors which filter every input & output. 
I shall be doing some direct comparisons with my audio analyser between
this latest version, (RevisionG), and the one currently shipping,
(RevisionC), and I will post the results. 
The total cost of all these changes works out to around Ģ15, ($22.50),
per unit but I hope to reduce costs in other areas to make up some of
the extra. We are looking at shipping the Footcontroller in the same box
as the EDP, which saves a whole set of packaging. I also hope to be able
to sell direct into the UK & possibly Europe, from here at Trace, which
will mean a substantial saving over standard retail.
I'm also working today, on slight improvements to the graphics on the
front panel and experimenting with different colour schemes. As Kim
said, you are very limited what can be done on such a small panel, but
there were quite a few comments some time ago on the list about how
old/tired the Echoplex looks. Any suggestions for graphical and or
colour changes would be gratefully received.

By all means, buy an EDP from Zenker, but if you can wait until the new
year, you may be able to buy a pair for the price Zenker is charging for
one! 

Regards,
Andy @ Trace Elliot.





-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Nelson [mailto:tnelson@metrocast.net]
Sent: 04 December 2001 01:22
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Looking for Echoplex Digital Pro


At 01:32 AM 12/4/01 +0100, you wrote:
>I'm new in this mailing list and trying to find an EDP for sale in
France. 
>Does anybody know someone or a site who sells one ?

Gibson's still pending CE approval for Europe, but Zenker LTD in
Switzerland is selling them. (Zenker, LTD Feierabendstrasse 22, CH-4003
Basel Switzerland)
<http://www.zenker.ch>

-t-

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 10:00:12 2001
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Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 10:29:12 -0400
Subject: pedalboard wiring: layout and noise issues
From: Paul Sullivan <paulsull@gis.net>
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Hello all,

A while ago there was a pedalboard thread going here. I'm in the process of
trying to put together a pedalboard for my (at present) 9 pedal setup,
including Headrush, PDS-8000, and Boomerang (so we're on topic). I've come
across some problems and wonder if any of you have experienced same, and/or
have any solutions.

Most of these run through the effects loop in my Carvin Nomad tweed amp. The
cables from effects send and return seem to act as antennas, and can pick up
a lot of hum depending where they are placed (near AC cords, or near some
wall-warts is usually the worst). I've tried different cables, including
George L, and it gets no better. This will obviously affect the layout of
send/return cables, as well as placement of the (inevitable) power strip
needed for my 4 wall-warts, as well as 2 line 6 plugs. Most pedalboards I've
seen have the power strip on board, but I haven't yet found a good
(noise-free) spot for it.

Signal chain at present is:

Effects send--headrush--DL4--MM4--Boomerang--PDS8000--(sometimes into Zvex
volume probe)--effects return. There is also a Voodoo labs Pedal Power (to
power the PDS and a tuner), located behind the line of pedals.

I'm also using two Digitech Whammy pedals at present (XP-100 and space
Station), which seem to work better between guitar and amp, not in effects
loop. The problem there is the gain structures--going from Space Station to
XP-100 to amp it's tough to get just enough signal to properly drive each
pedal (so I'm getting green on the input lights). This also raises noise
level slightly, and in combination w/ noise from the effects loop, is enough
to be annoying. I'm trying to avoid using a noise gate (too many pedals
already). 

I'm also looking for a way to build my own pedalboard. I'm intrigued by the
pedaltrain concept--lightweight aluminum-type rails. Does anyone know where
to locate this (or other desirable type ) of stock?

So that's it. In a nutshell, the problems are:

-placement of effects send/return cables--avoiding ac lines/power strips

-minimizing noise, both between effects in effects loop, and those straight
into amp.

-pedalboard stock

Any Ideas? Have any of you successfully dealt with any of these issues?

Thanks,

Paul

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Subject: Any opinions on Line 6 DL-4
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I can get a used DL-4 pretty cheap, I haven't tried it out. Anyone here have
an opinion on it?
 
Carl Jacobson
 

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
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it
out. Anyone here have an opinion on it?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
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<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
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font-family:Tahoma;mso-no-proof:yes'>Carl =
Jacobson<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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> I can get a used DL-4 pretty cheap, I haven't tried it out. Anyone
> here have an opinion on it?
>

I got one when they first came out and later traded it for a piece of
kit I really wanted. I'd certainly consider buying another one
*especially* if it were cheap. Here my take:

The unit is very versatile. It has quite a few useful features and even
some esoteric parameters that make it interesting. As a delay box on
it's own (ie: not compared to anything in particular) it is stellar. The
reverse and digital delays are great fun. The loop thing is not that
sophisticated but works quite well.  If you want to hear it in action I
used a DL4 exclusively with the Little Infinite Frequency Expander
instrument on my CD "The L.I.F.E. Album". (Samples at:
www.mp3.com/davidtalento) The growls and pings and scrapes are all  LIFE
into the DL4 and it was flexible enough for me to use almost all the
features and presets on a 60 minute album without duplicating much. I
can't say that about many delays out there.

Two things that aren't all they are hyped up to be:

The emulations are cool as delays but IMO they are not *that* useful as
authentic substitutes. In other words don't expect this to be the exact
same thing as a Space echo or tube echoplex. What is it more like is a
snapshot of one taste of those pieces and as such is still fun and
useful but it is NOT the same thing. OTOH, each preset gives you a
different flavor of delay so again, even though it may not be the exact
unit it is emulating, it is cool to have many totally different delays
in one box.

The other thing that was kind of confusing was the whole preset idea. I
never found this useful because you get three (four) presets but there
is no indication of what you're calling up or what the knobs are set for
(fair enough there is no display on the unit). I guess you could look at
these as a "bonus" and call one up when you don't need to tweak
anything. I just found them too confusing to keep track of so I just
dialed in something and then used the unit "live" for that it was great.

I recall these were selling for around $200 new plus the power supply.
Anything less than that is an OK price. Anything far less ($125ish  or
so) than that falls into the great buy for a good box category.








____________________________________________________________________
HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.HelpWantedProductions.com
"Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..."

Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and
info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more.


--------------FC352188287FE34374960667
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
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<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<div class=Section1>
<div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>I can get a used
DL-4 pretty cheap, I haven't tried it out. Anyone here have an opinion
on it?</font></font></div>
</div>
</blockquote>

<p><br>I got one when they first came out and later traded it for a piece
of kit I really wanted. I'd certainly consider buying another one *especially*
if it were cheap. Here my take:
<p>The unit is very versatile. It has quite a few useful features and even
some esoteric parameters that make it interesting. As a delay box on it's
own (ie: not compared to anything in particular) it is stellar. The reverse
and digital delays are great fun. The loop thing is not that sophisticated
but works quite well.&nbsp; If you want to hear it in action I used a DL4
exclusively with the Little Infinite Frequency Expander instrument on my
CD "The L.I.F.E. Album". (Samples at: www.mp3.com/davidtalento) The growls
and pings and scrapes are all&nbsp; LIFE into the DL4 and it was flexible
enough for me to use almost all the features and presets on a 60 minute
album without duplicating much. I can't say that about many delays out
there.
<p>Two things that aren't all they are hyped up to be:
<p>The emulations are cool as delays but IMO they are not *that* useful
as authentic substitutes. In other words don't expect this to be the exact
same thing as a Space echo or tube echoplex. What is it more like is a
snapshot of one taste of those pieces and as such is still fun and useful
but it is NOT the same thing. OTOH, each preset gives you a different flavor
of delay so again, even though it may not be the exact unit it is emulating,
it is cool to have many totally different delays in one box.
<p>The other thing that was kind of confusing was the whole preset idea.
I never found this useful because you get three (four) presets but there
is no indication of what you're calling up or what the knobs are set for
(fair enough there is no display on the unit). I guess you could look at
these as a "bonus" and call one up when you don't need to tweak anything.
I just found them too confusing to keep track of so I just dialed in something
and then used the unit "live" for that it was great.
<p>I recall these were selling for around $200 new plus the power supply.
Anything less than that is an OK price. Anything far less ($125ish&nbsp;
or so) than that falls into the great buy for a good box category.
<br>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;
<p>____________________________________________________________________
<br>HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - <A HREF="Http://www.HelpWantedProductions.com">Http://www.HelpWantedProductions.com</A>
<br>"Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..."
<p>Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and
<br>info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more.
<br>&nbsp;
</body>
</html>

--------------FC352188287FE34374960667--


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 12:10:26 2001
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From: "Nic Roozeboom" <nicroozeboom@hotmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Any opinions on Line 6 DL-4
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 08:37:50 -0800
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>I can get a used DL-4 pretty cheap, I haven't tried it out. Anyone here 
>have
>an opinion on it?
>
>Carl Jacobson
>

I for one love it. I would give it high grades particularly on (stereo) 
sound quality and usability in a live situation. My usage is mainly for its 
loop delay but also the other "regular" delay & echo effects are great.

It does have some idiosyncrasies such as unsuppressed artifacts when 
changing the delay time (although this can also be used as an effect in 
itself). Also it's a fixed-level input which can lead to clipping when 
overdriven (a compressor/limiter on the input might help here) but I have no 
problem as my setup is tweaked to a fixed output on the driving device 
anyway.

I use it with an expression pedal (an old Roland one I still had, RC-5 I 
think it's called), of which the main benefit is being able to gradually 
change between two different presets (one combination of the knob controls 
on toe, another on heel, and all graduations in between - this is a great 
feature!)

The 14 second maximum loop time (28 in half-speed mode) might be considered 
a limitation - I consider it a price trade-off (comp. e.g. the rack-mount 
60sec version at what .. 500$?)

I have it featured prominently on some tracks on my band Fractal's website 
if you care for a listen (fairly long tracks mostly):

http://home.pacbell.net/adrian_c/music-nat-anthem.html (no looping but uses 
the sweep echo setting with expression pedal to create the delay change 
artifacts I just mentioned)

http://home.pacbell.net/adrian_c/music-echo.html (loop delay)

http://home.pacbell.net/adrian_c/music-consolation.html (loop delay)

Offering no (hypocritical) apologies for the blatant plug;-). Hope this 
helps!
Nic

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 12:31:41 2001
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eeee-kids-
 
> Having just lugged my heavy rack on an off of ferries and taxies for the
> last few weeks, I am more interested than ever in finding a software
> solution.
...

>I checked out Reaktor a little bit as a possible way to avoid having to buy
>a Repeater, and in my short experience with it, I found that it was
seemingly impossible to build a looper much beyond a long delay style of
>thing - I couldn't find a way to handle tap tempo, which to me was a
>show-stopper - that's not to say it couldn't be done, but I didn't see how
>it could be done. Of course Reaktor appears to be very cool for many other

ive kept an eagle eye to the software front for a year now. i think a software solution will be emerging very soon. the arguments that the hardware peeps have been making about tactile user interface, latency, and stability, are being rapidly addressed by the software peeps.

user interface, you have these devices like iCube where you can build your own user interface, or the peavey fader box, or other flavors of switch and pedal comboboards. or if you are more technically savvy, get a basic stamp II and wire up your own switches and pots. it all runs into the computer. and you get to tweak the UI so that any switch or pedal can adjust anything, and so that you dont have any more knobs and dials than you really need.

latency, you have MAC OSX claiming 1 ms latency. You have new commercial audio software being developed for it. Someone mentioned ableton's Live sequencing package (www.ableton.com). I played with it. While its not quite fluid and stable enough yet to replace your EDP, id keep an eye on it.. and, for the savvy, you can write an EDP replacement in MAX/MSP. with the right hardware (the pick seems to be MOTU2408 or MOTU828) you can get your latencies down around 5-10ms (check the community pages at www.cycling74.com). when MSP becomes OS X ready, the latencies will drop. 

latency part 2, You also have a rapidly growing freesoftware Linux audio movement (www.linuxdj.com), reporting stable latencies peaking at 1-2 ms with intense disk and system activity. one audio card of choice seems to be the RME hammerfall (multichannel digital i/o). as for laptop audio, I contacted magma and they are working on Linux drivers for their Cardbus which allows you to plug PCI cards like the Hammerfall into your laptop. the linux people are puritans, serious about a stable architecture. check www.sourceforge.net for a list of free audio software being developed for linux. it wont be long before someone writes a multichannel looper under linux, and it might be really sexy. and while i really believe in free software and permaculture and all that, the linux audio thing is still a beta baby. so im waiting on it.

bottom line, the software front is coming. i'd give it another year.

for now, i would hold onto my cash, not be enticed by the toys, and play with myself instead. channel that energy into breath and learning, where you know it'll be wise. that's what im doing.

love
-yon



Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/

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Subject: Re: Any opinions on Line 6 DL-4
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Nic Roozeboom" <nicroozeboom@hotmail.com>

> >I can get a used DL-4 pretty cheap, I haven't tried it out. Anyone here
> >have
> >an opinion on it?


That unit is essential in my setup at the moment. I've used it on every
track I've done this year. The only problems I experience are with clipping
on the input, (which can be dealt with as previously mentioned) otherwise
it's a great piece of gear. The DL-4 was basically my entry-level piece of
gear into looping/infinite delays/etc. I've had more fun with this unit than
just about any other FX box/rack unit I've bought.

One thing I did do, as I did with my POD units, is basically ignore the
documentation. I don't expect the unit to replicate other bits of gear, thus
enjoying finding my own sounds, and avoiding the disappointment of the box
not duplication the sound of "x" (insert vintage fx box the thing doesn't
sound like).

Cheers,

Simon Kean
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shallow End Swimming (Post-Rock) - http://mp3.com/shallowendswimming
Ulcerate (Alternative/Industrial) - http://mp3.com/ulcerate

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 13:04:08 2001
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>for now, i would hold onto my cash, not be enticed by the toys, and 
>play with myself instead.

quote of the day, for me.

rich

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 13:50:18 2001
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Subject: Re: Boomerang + phrase sampler NEW $365.00
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  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Rich Kroll=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 10:37 AM
  Subject: Re: Boomerang + phrase sampler NEW $365.00



    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: Rich Kroll=20
    To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
    Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 11:33 AM
    Subject: Re: Boomerang + phrase sampler NEW $375.00



      ----- Original Message -----=20
      From: Rich Kroll=20
      To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com=20
      Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 5:20 PM
      Subject: Boomerang + phrase sampler NEW $365.00


      Brand New boomerang + phrase sampler 4 meg version.
      dealer full waranty, Manual power supply.
      15.00 shipping pay pal accepted. =20

      Best looper available easy to use.

      Email kroll@vrinter.net or call 610-462-3627 9am -9pm est

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  <A title=3Dkroll@vrinter.net href=3D"mailto:kroll@vrinter.net">Rich =
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  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 21, =
2001 10:37=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Boomerang + phrase =
sampler=20
  NEW $365.00</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
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    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A title=3Dkroll@vrinter.net href=3D"mailto:kroll@vrinter.net">Rich =
Kroll</A>=20
    </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
    title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
    </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 18, =
2001 11:33=20
    AM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Boomerang + =
phrase sampler=20
    NEW $375.00</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
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</DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
      <A title=3Dkroll@vrinter.net =
href=3D"mailto:kroll@vrinter.net">Rich Kroll</A>=20
      </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
      title=3DLoopers-Delight@annihilist.com=20
      =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com">Loopers-Delight@annihilist=
.com</A>=20
      </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 11, =
2001 5:20=20
      PM</DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Boomerang + phrase =
sampler=20
      NEW $365.00</DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Brand New boomerang + phrase =
sampler 4 meg=20
      version.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>dealer full waranty, Manual power =

      supply.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>15.00 shipping pay pal =
accepted.&nbsp;=20
      </FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Best&nbsp;looper available easy =
to=20
      use.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Email <A=20
      href=3D"mailto:kroll@vrinter.net">kroll@vrinter.net</A> or call =
610-462-3627=20
      9am -9pm =
est</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 13:59:15 2001
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Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 13:28:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Elio DeLuca <elio@telepathyrecords.com>
Subject: gig spam, Boston area - solo noise guitar loop show
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Hi, all. A little shameless self-promotion. I perform solo (under the name
"dosage") playing what could be called ambient/psychedelic freeform
noise-rock, all completely improvised. More info below.

Dosage (11 PM)
w/Pine Cone People (10 PM)
and DJ Sulci (9 PM)

Friday, December 7th, 9 PM - 1 AM

Oxfam Cafe, Miller Hall
Tufts U., Medford MA
No cover, great veggie burgers
For info & directions call (617) 504-8278

http://www.telepathyrecords.com/dosage

(The Pine Cone People are a fantastic new music duo of violin and
accordion/musical saw.  There's no real way to describe what they sound
like but it's as original as it is bizarre. DJ Sulci ("the grooves in your
brain") will open with a set of acid jazz, drumn'bass, and progressive
beats, to loosen things up.)

Dosage is the latest name for an always-evolving idea of solo guitar
noise. I've got an album of similar stuff coming out in February under my
own name: the record is called "Delusions" and you can listen to it at:

	http://www.mp3.com/delusions

My setup now is a two-string baritone Telecaster through a bunch of analog
pedals, into a cranked Fender VibroChamp (silverface), which is then
mic'ed and run through two Line 6 DL4's (for delays, looping, and
sound-on-sound stuff) into the P.A. I'll do a couple sets, all improvised,
although in the past there've been snippets of tunes by Massive Attack,
Bruce Springsteen, Coltrane, and what have you......

Anyway, thanks for reading. If you can make it, terrific. There very well
might be no one there, but hey, it's a free show!

peace,

Elio DeLuca

____________________________________________
Telepathy Records       telepathyrecords.com
____________________________________________

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 14:32:33 2001
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Subject: Re: pedalboard wiring: layout and noise issues
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Furman has a new pedal board with integrated power conditioner, pedal power
leads, and power strip= retail is like $300

c

PS- Unless the pedal is made well your in for a ride- my beloved PDS-8000 is
an awful pedal in regards to coloration and noise/artifacts - I am going to
see if a local tech can wire me a true bypass for it- also the new Tech21
wah has true bypass- I assume this feature on as many of your pedals as
possible would help some-


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Sullivan" <paulsull@gis.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 6:29 AM
Subject: pedalboard wiring: layout and noise issues


> Hello all,
>
> A while ago there was a pedalboard thread going here. I'm in the process
of
> trying to put together a pedalboard for my (at present) 9 pedal setup,
> including Headrush, PDS-8000, and Boomerang (so we're on topic). I've come
> across some problems and wonder if any of you have experienced same,
and/or
> have any solutions.
>
> Most of these run through the effects loop in my Carvin Nomad tweed amp.
The
> cables from effects send and return seem to act as antennas, and can pick
up
> a lot of hum depending where they are placed (near AC cords, or near some
> wall-warts is usually the worst). I've tried different cables, including
> George L, and it gets no better. This will obviously affect the layout of
> send/return cables, as well as placement of the (inevitable) power strip
> needed for my 4 wall-warts, as well as 2 line 6 plugs. Most pedalboards
I've
> seen have the power strip on board, but I haven't yet found a good
> (noise-free) spot for it.
>
> Signal chain at present is:
>
> Effects send--headrush--DL4--MM4--Boomerang--PDS8000--(sometimes into Zvex
> volume probe)--effects return. There is also a Voodoo labs Pedal Power (to
> power the PDS and a tuner), located behind the line of pedals.
>
> I'm also using two Digitech Whammy pedals at present (XP-100 and space
> Station), which seem to work better between guitar and amp, not in effects
> loop. The problem there is the gain structures--going from Space Station
to
> XP-100 to amp it's tough to get just enough signal to properly drive each
> pedal (so I'm getting green on the input lights). This also raises noise
> level slightly, and in combination w/ noise from the effects loop, is
enough
> to be annoying. I'm trying to avoid using a noise gate (too many pedals
> already).
>
> I'm also looking for a way to build my own pedalboard. I'm intrigued by
the
> pedaltrain concept--lightweight aluminum-type rails. Does anyone know
where
> to locate this (or other desirable type ) of stock?
>
> So that's it. In a nutshell, the problems are:
>
> -placement of effects send/return cables--avoiding ac lines/power strips
>
> -minimizing noise, both between effects in effects loop, and those
straight
> into amp.
>
> -pedalboard stock
>
> Any Ideas? Have any of you successfully dealt with any of these issues?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 14:40:00 2001
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swirlee@angelfire.com writes:

>user interface, you have these devices like iCube where you can build your
>own user interface, or the peavey fader box,
.....or the midiman surface one, or the kurzweil ribbon controller, or the 
emu command station-thingies..... etc etc.
dt / splattercell

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In a message dated 12/4/2001 12:03:49 PM, swirlee@angelfire.com writes:

>i think a software solution will be emerging very soon.
do-able in max/msp, yeah?
a la 'radial'..... which seems to have disappeared?
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 14:43:37 2001
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From: Mike Feeney <feeneymike@yahoo.com>
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    When guitars go digital:

    http://www.techtv.com/news/culture/story/0,24195,3363342,00.html

    they're predicting guitars to ship with ethernet ports as opposed to
1/4" analog jacks within 12-18 months.



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 14:48:18 2001
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Subject: tools/toys --- breathe & learn
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In a message dated 12/4/2001 12:03:49 PM, swirlee@angelfire.com writes:

>for now, i would hold onto my cash, not be enticed by the toys, and play
>with myself instead.
these are tools, i think, not toys..... though its clear that the boundary 
between the two is easily blurred.....
anyway, i'm getting a very positive feedback from hardware looping, still.
 
>channel that energy into breath and learning, where
>you know it'll be wise. that's what im doing.
nice suggestion!
i try to breathe and learn *while* looping, rather than 'taking a break' to 
do so.
best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 15:01:46 2001
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Subject: Re: gig spam, Boston area - solo noise guitar loop show
From: Stan Card <stanitarium@earthlink.net>
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ah lak whacher dewin there on dem downloads...
lotsa luck on frinite.
s



on 12/4/01 10:28 AM, Elio DeLuca at elio@telepathyrecords.com wrote:

> Hi, all. A little shameless self-promotion. I perform solo (under the name
> "dosage") playing what could be called ambient/psychedelic freeform
> noise-rock, all completely improvised. More info below.
> 
> Dosage (11 PM)
> w/Pine Cone People (10 PM)
> and DJ Sulci (9 PM)
> 
> Friday, December 7th, 9 PM - 1 AM
 
> Dosage is the latest name for an always-evolving idea of solo guitar
> noise. I've got an album of similar stuff coming out in February under my
> own name: the record is called "Delusions" and you can listen to it at:
> 
> http://www.mp3.com/delusions
> 
> My setup now is a two-string baritone Telecaster through a bunch of analog
> pedals, into a cranked Fender VibroChamp (silverface), which is then
> mic'ed and run through two Line 6 DL4's (for delays, looping, and
> sound-on-sound stuff) into the P.A. I'll do a couple sets, all improvised,
> although in the past there've been snippets of tunes by Massive Attack,
> Bruce Springsteen, Coltrane, and what have you......
> 
> Anyway, thanks for reading. If you can make it, terrific. There very well
> might be no one there, but hey, it's a free show!
> 
> peace,
> 
> Elio DeLuca

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 15:07:59 2001
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feeneymike@yahoo.com writes:
>When guitars go digital:
>    http://www.techtv.com/news/culture/story/0,24195,3363342,00.html
>    they're predicting guitars to ship with ethernet ports as opposed to
>1/4" analog jacks within 12-18 months.
yeah, hmmm.....
it *might* be interesting, if & when the target sound-sources (modelling, 
etc) are capable of reading/translating complex hands-to-strings-to-amp 
gestalt, and when the modellers attempt something more interesting than the 
'perfect ac30' or 'perfect tweed amp' type of tones.
(like guitar 'synthesis' --- the idea is cooler than the end-result, for me, 
as the sound-sources never have been capable of *furthering* the striking & 
visceral, gross/disgusting/beautiful idiosyncracies inherent in 
hand-guitar-amp-feedback relations.....)
2 cents.
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 15:31:03 2001
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Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 13:58:19 -0600
From: jim palmer <jimp@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: tools/toys --- breathe & learn
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i like to hold my breath while i'm learning.
it keeps the evil thoughts from getting enough air...

> 
> In a message dated 12/4/2001 12:03:49 PM, swirlee@angelfire.com writes:
> 
> >for now, i would hold onto my cash, not be enticed by the toys, and play
> >with myself instead.
> these are tools, i think, not toys..... though its clear that the boundary 
> between the two is easily blurred.....
> anyway, i'm getting a very positive feedback from hardware looping, still.
>  
> >channel that energy into breath and learning, where
> >you know it'll be wise. that's what im doing.
> nice suggestion!
> i try to breathe and learn *while* looping, rather than 'taking a break' to 
> do so.
> best,
> dt / splattercell
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 15:31:38 2001
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Subject: Re: VERY interesting article!!!
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what are they thinking?
how am i going to get a true bypass mod for ethernet on my ibanez ts-808?

>     
>     When guitars go digital:
> 
>     http://www.techtv.com/news/culture/story/0,24195,3363342,00.html
> 
>     they're predicting guitars to ship with ethernet ports as opposed to
> 1/4" analog jacks within 12-18 months.
> 
> 
> 

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Subject: Re: Reaktor -- computer looping
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> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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Speaking of laptop computer looping, has anyone fooled around with Polar,
the Digital Performer looping plugin?  I have DP, and it's just occurred to
me that this might be a cool live tool for loopers -- haven't investigated
it myself, tho.


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<FONT SIZE=3D"4">Speaking of laptop computer looping, has anyone fooled aroun=
d with Polar, the Digital Performer looping plugin? &nbsp;I have DP, and it'=
s just occurred to me that this might be a cool live tool for loopers -- hav=
en't investigated it myself, tho.<BR>
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David,

I took a listen to "LIFE - Track 4", and decided to look up 
this amazing little instrument.  I'm in love.  I HAVE to get a 
LIFE!  Thanks for the introduction!

Blessed be,
:-)Michael


<<<<SNIP>>>>
I used a DL4 exclusively with the Little Infinite Frequency 
Expander instrument on my CD "The L.I.F.E. Album". (Samples at:
www.mp3.com/davidtalento) The growls and pings and scrapes are 
all  LIFE into the DL4 and it was flexible enough for me to use 
almost all the features and presets on a 60 minute album 
without duplicating much. I can't say that about many delays 
out there.

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i like what your saying,
maybe later we could use this or another interface to collect/send
more guitar gesture information (pick angle, striking force, position 
on string, facial expression, rock-god-like-pose-choice, etc...)

but i think they are just talking about a/d onboard guitar and 
digital signal out via multi-channel protocol via ethernet...



> feeneymike@yahoo.com writes:
> >When guitars go digital:
> >    http://www.techtv.com/news/culture/story/0,24195,3363342,00.html
> >    they're predicting guitars to ship with ethernet ports as opposed to
> >1/4" analog jacks within 12-18 months.
> yeah, hmmm.....
> it *might* be interesting, if & when the target sound-sources (modelling, 
> etc) are capable of reading/translating complex hands-to-strings-to-amp 
> gestalt, and when the modellers attempt something more interesting than the 
> 'perfect ac30' or 'perfect tweed amp' type of tones.
> (like guitar 'synthesis' --- the idea is cooler than the end-result, for me, 
> as the sound-sources never have been capable of *furthering* the striking & 
> visceral, gross/disgusting/beautiful idiosyncracies inherent in 
> hand-guitar-amp-feedback relations.....)
> 2 cents.
> dt / splattercell
> 

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To: Michael Raphael <mercury@ureach.com>
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     It's a chain reaction,David your stuff is great but thanks for
showing us this amazing little gizmo!!

  I know what I want for christmas, Santa!:-D


A+



On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, Michael Raphael wrote:

> David,
>
> I took a listen to "LIFE - Track 4", and decided to look up
> this amazing little instrument.  I'm in love.  I HAVE to get a
> LIFE!  Thanks for the introduction!
>
> Blessed be,
> :-)Michael
>
>
> <<<<SNIP>>>>
> I used a DL4 exclusively with the Little Infinite Frequency
> Expander instrument on my CD "The L.I.F.E. Album". (Samples at:
> www.mp3.com/davidtalento) The growls and pings and scrapes are
> all  LIFE into the DL4 and it was flexible enough for me to use
> almost all the features and presets on a 60 minute album
> without duplicating much. I can't say that about many delays
> out there.
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 17:08:48 2001
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Re: Reaktor -- computer loopingI tried it some time ago (probably at least a
year ago).  Seemed to work fine but you could not capture a loop live by
tapping it in.  [You know: 1) tap a button and start playing, 2) play
awhile, 3) tap a button to stop recording and start playback.]
Consequently, it did not seem suitable for a live performance.  But maybe
it's changed since then...

Dennis Leas
-------------------
dennis@mdbs.com


----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Sandberg
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: Reaktor -- computer looping


Speaking of laptop computer looping, has anyone fooled around with Polar,
the Digital Performer looping plugin?  I have DP, and it's just occurred to
me that this might be a cool live tool for loopers -- haven't investigated
it myself, tho.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 17:31:19 2001
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 16:58:59 -0500
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>Speaking of laptop computer looping, has anyone fooled around with Polar,
>the Digital Performer looping plugin?  I have DP, and it's just occurred
>to me that this might be a cool live tool for loopers -- haven't
>investigated it myself, tho.

Tried it VERY briefly -- when I couldn't get it to use the loop length I
wanted, I resorted to other methods within DP to do what I wanted to do at
the time.
---
* just-john@just-john.com  http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml *

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i think this is what they are referring to as the latency issue.
most i/o on a pc used to be buffered.  the size of the buffer
gives you protection if the cpu is busy for a while, but at the cost
of disallowing changes to occur to the buffered data.
bigger buffer, easier on cpu, bigger latency....

for those with the means and the computer dweeb inclination,
kyma promises a latency of less than 1 sample.
(so it's only a problem when i play REAL fast)
and dennis has some cool looper tools for kyma
(available "soon" i hear)

i have a pulsar card which promises very low latency, and seems
to deliver, but i haven't really used it for real time performance...

both of these deliver low latency by using dsp on the audio device
instead of cpu for signal processing calculations.
maybe as cpu speeds go into the stratosphere and multimedia becomes
more important (tv/phone/radio/stereo/browser/pc merge) this will become 
unnecessary...

anyone know how apple is delivering cpu time on demand?


> Re: Reaktor -- computer loopingI tried it some time ago (probably at least a
> year ago).  Seemed to work fine but you could not capture a loop live by
> tapping it in.  [You know: 1) tap a button and start playing, 2) play
> awhile, 3) tap a button to stop recording and start playback.]
> Consequently, it did not seem suitable for a live performance.  But maybe
> it's changed since then...
> 
> Dennis Leas
> -------------------
> dennis@mdbs.com
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve Sandberg
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 3:14 PM
> Subject: Re: Reaktor -- computer looping
> 
> 
> Speaking of laptop computer looping, has anyone fooled around with Polar,
> the Digital Performer looping plugin?  I have DP, and it's just occurred to
> me that this might be a cool live tool for loopers -- haven't investigated
> it myself, tho.
> 

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>  It's a chain reaction,David your stuff is great but thanks for
> showing us this amazing little gizmo!!
>   I know what I want for christmas, Santa!
>
> > I took a listen to "LIFE - Track 4", and decided to look up  this
> amazing little instrument.  I'm in love.  I HAVE to get a
> > LIFE!  Thanks for the introduction!

Thanks for the compliments. I did two multimedia shows based around this
album and the instrument at least years Fringe Festival 2000 and for
better or worse am probably the biggest LIFE user out there. I *still*
find new and interesting things to do with it and incorporate it at live
shows here and there.

The Main LIFE page is at http://www.technomage.freeserve.co.uk/life.htm

I traded emails with Grant @ Technomage a few times discussing the
planning  of the album and shows and he's a true gadget madman. Alas,
last I checked he is completely sold out of LIFE and they are no longer
for sale. He has had plans for a newer version (LIFE II) for well over a
year now but there's been no update to the web page or additional info.
It looks amazing as well but apparently is still in the infant stages of
production.

You can gawk at it here at least:
http://www.technomage.freeserve.co.uk/life2.htm

And what email would be complete without a shameless plug. The L.I.F.E.
Album is still available for a mere $10 POSTPAID in the US ($11 POSTPAID
to Canada and the world). You can even pay via paypal online. about one
hour, 16 tracks long of pinging, whirring, analog goodness and looping
madness done entirely with one LIFE and on DL4 in real time. (ok I added
a *little* reverb on mix down :))

Full ordering info (including paypal info) at:

http://www.helpwantedproductions.com/catalog.htm

(and I'm STILL selling generic cover Looper's Delight CD #1
compilations. Just sold one last week as a matter of fact :)

I love L.I.F.E ! Glad to share with y'all :)


____________________________________________________________________
HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.HelpWantedProductions.com
"Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..."

Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and
info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more.


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> So that's it. In a nutshell, the problems are:
>
> -placement of effects send/return cables--avoiding ac lines/power strips

I would try to focus in on what makes the most noise and put it last in the
chain before the send cable back to the amp.  Also trying different settings
with the trim pots on the Digitech(s) and the Boomerang.  My Boomerangs can be
noisy if I don't stay on the trim knobs on the back.  Sounds like you checked
the obvious, i.e. good quality patch cords, separation of the power cables,
etc.  I use a Spinal Tappish dual level setup with a raised section for GR-33
Synth and little stomp boxes, lower level for Line6 pedals and digitech whammy.
It is a pain to move but looks way cool.  Power strips, wall warts, extra cable
all fit underneath the upper level.  Haven't had any noise problems with this.
Two Boomerangs go on a separate board next to this one.  BTW how do you like the
Space Station?  I've been thinking about picking one up.

>
>
> -minimizing noise, both between effects in effects loop, and those straight
> into amp.

> -pedalboard stock

>

> Any Ideas? Have any of you successfully dealt with any of these issues?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 18:39:06 2001
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   Greetings fellow Loopers. When I'm not gigging, looping my brains out, or
>teaching guitar, I work part time  for luthier extraodinaire Rick Turner at
>Renaissance Guitar Co. I first became aware of Rick's innovative creations in
>1998 shortly after receiving my brand new Jeff Traugott acoustic guitar.
>After a few high anxiety gigs under adverse acoustic conditions I realized I
>needed a guitar that didn't make me nervous when I took it out on gigs,  and
>wasn't prone to feedback like all fine acoustic guitars ultimately are. My
>search led me to Rick Turner who had just moved his shop to Santa Cruz where
>I live. Rick's innovative semi-acoustic designs coupled with arguably the
>best custom electronics available prompted me to purchase my first
>Renaissance RS-6.  Even Jeff Traugott admitted that in an amplified setting,
>The Renaissance sounded better than my Traugott guitar with a good pickup.
>This is high praise indeed coming form Jeff who makes a world renown acoustic
>guitar, I find my Ren guitars (I now have 3) really shine in a looping
>context where layering can really wreck feedback havoc with a conventional
>acoustic guitar. I also have been getting excellent results in my home studio
>where issues of space, noise floor, and self-engineering hassles sometimes
>make recording acoustic guitars with conventional miking techniques
>impractical.
>   We at Renaissance are a small factory without much advertising budget, and
>we realize that the one of the best ways to get our instruments out in the
>public eye, is to get them in the hands of working pros, and stimulate the
>buzz on the street. That being said, I have been given the green light by
>Rick to offer pro discounts to members of loopers delight, for any of our
>production models. So as not to incur the wrath of our dealer network, we can
>only offer this deal to LD members and not friends of friends.  Also in the
>interest of discretion I am not including pricing in this e-mail, and I'm
>asking interested parties to get in touch with me directly at my e-mail
>address: chillyb@cruzio.com, or at the renaissance e-mail address:
>rturner466@aol.com, or by phone at the shop: 831-460-9144 between 10am-2 PM
>PST, and I can fill you in on the details. In the Renaissance line we make
>both 4 and 5 string fretted and fretless Basses , 6 and 12 string  standard
>and baritone guitars, and two different models of nylon string classical
>guitars. We also make the Electroline series of 4 and 5 string basses and the
>acclaimed M1 electric guitar. Lindsey Buckingham's weapon of choice for the
>last twenty odd years. Also you might want to check out the reviews on
>Harmony Central, one of which I wrote before I started working for
>Renaissance. I would be happy to send literature to anyone interested, and
>also check us out online at www.renaissanceguitars.com.
>Thanks,
>Bill Walker
>Renaissance Guitars
>


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My absolute favorite stand alone pedal.  I don't use it for looping but
use the presets for "swell", "reverse sample" and multiple decays.  I
love this thing, rave about it to friends.  It is quiet, well thought
out, and sounds spectacular.  Did I mention that I liked it?  (just wish
it had more preset buttons or maybe banks so I could use all the
features without bending over-never a pretty sight)

Mike

CarlJacobson@cakewalk.com wrote:

> I can get a used DL-4 pretty cheap, I haven't tried it out. Anyone
> here have an opinion on it?
>
> Carl Jacobson
>

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My absolute favorite stand alone pedal.&nbsp; I don't use it for looping
but use the presets for "swell", "reverse sample" and multiple decays.&nbsp;
I love this thing, rave about it to friends.&nbsp; It is quiet, well thought
out, and sounds spectacular.&nbsp; Did I mention that I liked it?&nbsp;
(just wish it had more preset buttons or maybe banks so I could use all
the features without bending over-never a pretty sight)
<p>Mike
<p>CarlJacobson@cakewalk.com wrote:
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>I
can get a used DL-4 pretty cheap, I haven't tried it out. Anyone here have
an opinion on it?</font></font><o:p></o:p></span></div>


<p class="MsoNormal"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span>

<p class="MsoAutoSig"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;mso-no-proof:yes'><font face="Tahoma"><font size=-1>Carl
Jacobson</font></font><o:p></o:p></span>

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12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 19:09:09 2001
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I AM SELLING ALL OF MY DJ GEAR:

2 Technics 1200 MK2s
1 Numark DM3000X Pro Mixer
Technics DJ-1200 Headphones
Stanton Trackmasters
Alesis Microverb Digital Effects Processor

All for $545, includes shipping.

See the web page we made:

http://dj-gear.tripod.com



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I AM SELLING ALL OF MY DJ GEAR:

2 Technics 1200 MK2s
1 Numark DM3000X Pro Mixer
Technics DJ-1200 Headphones
Stanton Trackmasters
Alesis Microverb Digital Effects Processor

All for $545, includes shipping.

See the web page we made:

http://dj-gear.tripod.com



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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 19:19:29 2001
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Subject: Re: Any opinions on Line 6 DL-4
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 23:39:43 -0000
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----- Original Message -----=20
From: Mike Killian=20


> (just wish it had more preset buttons or maybe banks so I could use =
all the features without bending over-never a pretty sight)=20

One of the reasons I want to buy another. I need another three banks. =
Also the enhanced looping prospects are starting to intrigue me.

Cheers,

Simon Kean
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--
Shallow End Swimming (Post-Rock) - http://mp3.com/shallowendswimming
Ulcerate (Alternative/Industrial) - http://mp3.com/ulcerate=20


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<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
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black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
title=3Dkili@swbell.net href=3D"mailto:kili@swbell.net">Mike Killian</A> =
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<DIV><BR></DIV>&gt; (just wish it had more preset buttons or maybe banks =
so I=20
could use all the features without bending over-never a pretty sight)=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>One of the reasons I want to buy =
another. I need=20
another three banks. Also the enhanced looping prospects are starting to =

intrigue me.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cheers,</FONT></DIV>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 19:50:13 2001
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Subject: Re: pedalboard wiring: layout and noise issues
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 22:17:40 -0800
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I found the headrush to be my only noisey pedal,
so i have that last,  if i take it out of the chain it's dead silent,
and i use 12 pedals.  when i get my repeater, the headrush
will get drop kicked across the room.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Sullivan" <paulsull@gis.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 6:29 AM
Subject: pedalboard wiring: layout and noise issues


> Hello all,
>
> A while ago there was a pedalboard thread going here. I'm in the process
of
> trying to put together a pedalboard for my (at present) 9 pedal setup,
> including Headrush, PDS-8000, and Boomerang (so we're on topic). I've come
> across some problems and wonder if any of you have experienced same,
and/or
> have any solutions.
>
> Most of these run through the effects loop in my Carvin Nomad tweed amp.
The
> cables from effects send and return seem to act as antennas, and can pick
up
> a lot of hum depending where they are placed (near AC cords, or near some
> wall-warts is usually the worst). I've tried different cables, including
> George L, and it gets no better. This will obviously affect the layout of
> send/return cables, as well as placement of the (inevitable) power strip
> needed for my 4 wall-warts, as well as 2 line 6 plugs. Most pedalboards
I've
> seen have the power strip on board, but I haven't yet found a good
> (noise-free) spot for it.
>
> Signal chain at present is:
>
> Effects send--headrush--DL4--MM4--Boomerang--PDS8000--(sometimes into Zvex
> volume probe)--effects return. There is also a Voodoo labs Pedal Power (to
> power the PDS and a tuner), located behind the line of pedals.
>
> I'm also using two Digitech Whammy pedals at present (XP-100 and space
> Station), which seem to work better between guitar and amp, not in effects
> loop. The problem there is the gain structures--going from Space Station
to
> XP-100 to amp it's tough to get just enough signal to properly drive each
> pedal (so I'm getting green on the input lights). This also raises noise
> level slightly, and in combination w/ noise from the effects loop, is
enough
> to be annoying. I'm trying to avoid using a noise gate (too many pedals
> already).
>
> I'm also looking for a way to build my own pedalboard. I'm intrigued by
the
> pedaltrain concept--lightweight aluminum-type rails. Does anyone know
where
> to locate this (or other desirable type ) of stock?
>
> So that's it. In a nutshell, the problems are:
>
> -placement of effects send/return cables--avoiding ac lines/power strips
>
> -minimizing noise, both between effects in effects loop, and those
straight
> into amp.
>
> -pedalboard stock
>
> Any Ideas? Have any of you successfully dealt with any of these issues?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul
>

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Subject: Re: Any opinions on Line 6 DL-4
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In a message dated 12/4/01 3:00:41 PM, CarlJacobson@cakewalk.com writes:

<< I can get a used DL-4 pretty cheap, I haven't tried it out. Anyone here 
have
an opinion on it? >>

Carl;
I'd say go for it.  Great bang for the buck on all counts (one big plus is 
that it's one of the only pedal loopers that let's you go directly into 
overdub from your first tap to start loop recording).  I'm using two in my 
pedalboard, one for delay effects and one for it's loop functions.  The only 
negative I feel, as far as the looper goes, is no control over the fade - the 
fade rate is fixed at a percentage of the loop length so the longer your loop 
the longer it takes to fade away. - Paul

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 20:44:18 2001
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Subject: Re: Any opinions on Line 6 DL-4
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does anyone else find the scaling (or linearity/nonlinearity) of  the knobs
on the dl-4 to be counter-intuitive...i.e. not natural? i always seem to
have a hard time getting balance right with that thing... maybe it's just
me.


monk


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>Furman has a new pedal board with integrated power conditioner, pedal power
>leads, and power strip= retail is like $300

One drawback to the Furman pedalboard is that each pedal can draw no more
than 100mA.  The Digitech stuff pulls around 800mA, so you'll need to use
another power supply for those.

TH

-- 
Electrochakra website: http://www.electrochakra.com






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Subject: Re: 1200s Technics Set
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 01:34:22 +0000
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Where are you located - I'm interested if this stuff is in good condition!
Jon


>From: "Linda Marie" <snackpack@backpacker.com>
>Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>Subject: 1200s Technics Set
>Date: 4 Dec 2001 23:34:59 -0000
>
>I AM SELLING ALL OF MY DJ GEAR:
>
>2 Technics 1200 MK2s
>1 Numark DM3000X Pro Mixer
>Technics DJ-1200 Headphones
>Stanton Trackmasters
>Alesis Microverb Digital Effects Processor
>
>All for $545, includes shipping.
>
>See the web page we made:
>
>http://dj-gear.tripod.com
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Sign-UP for your FREE Backpacker Email at http://www.backpacker.com/email
>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>P.S. Click here to get a FREE trial issue of BACKPACKER:  
>http://www.backpacker.com/subs/home.rhtml/I9KF001
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 21:18:27 2001
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Could this FINALLY be the end of MIDI?  I sure do hope so.

Mark

On Tuesday, December 4, 2001, at 11:12 AM, Mike Feeney wrote:

>
>
>     When guitars go digital:
>
>     http://www.techtv.com/news/culture/story/0,24195,3363342,00.html
>
>     they're predicting guitars to ship with ethernet ports as opposed to
> 1/4" analog jacks within 12-18 months.
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 21:34:02 2001
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Every tool can be a toy, if you hold it right.

Mark

On Tuesday, December 4, 2001, at 11:16 AM, Hedewa7@aol.com wrote:

>
> In a message dated 12/4/2001 12:03:49 PM, swirlee@angelfire.com writes:
>
>> for now, i would hold onto my cash, not be enticed by the toys, and 
>> play
>> with myself instead.
> these are tools, i think, not toys..... though its clear that the 
> boundary
> between the two is easily blurred.....
> anyway, i'm getting a very positive feedback from hardware looping, 
> still.
>
>> channel that energy into breath and learning, where
>> you know it'll be wise. that's what im doing.
> nice suggestion!
> i try to breathe and learn *while* looping, rather than 'taking a 
> break' to
> do so.
> best,
> dt / splattercell
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec  4 23:48:34 2001
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Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 20:19:45 -0800
Subject: Re: OT: Renaissance Guitars
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hey guys,

i've been playing rick's basses (fretless renassaince and electroline and
fretted piccolo ren) for about 3-4 years now and can't recommend them
highly enough. the ren fretless is the most expressive instrument i've
ever laid my hands on. and anyone that has the guts to make an instrument
with just one tone knob as the only eq (and sound freakin' incredible!) 
is my undisputed hero :-)

kudos!

tony

ps - did i say they're dang pretty too?


On Tue, 4 Dec 2001 15:10:23 -0800 "William R. Walker,"
<chillyb@cruzio.com> writes:
> 
>    Greetings fellow Loopers. When I'm not gigging, looping my brains 
> out, or
> >teaching guitar, I work part time  for luthier extraodinaire Rick 
> Turner at
> >Renaissance Guitar Co. I first became aware of Rick's innovative 
> creations in
> >1998 shortly after receiving my brand new Jeff Traugott acoustic 
> guitar.
> >After a few high anxiety gigs under adverse acoustic conditions I 
> realized I
> >needed a guitar that didn't make me nervous when I took it out on 
> gigs,  and
> >wasn't prone to feedback like all fine acoustic guitars ultimately 
> are. My
> >search led me to Rick Turner who had just moved his shop to Santa 
> Cruz where
> >I live. Rick's innovative semi-acoustic designs coupled with 
> arguably the
> >best custom electronics available prompted me to purchase my first
> >Renaissance RS-6.  Even Jeff Traugott admitted that in an amplified 
> setting,
> >The Renaissance sounded better than my Traugott guitar with a good 
> pickup.
> >This is high praise indeed coming form Jeff who makes a world 
> renown acoustic
> >guitar, I find my Ren guitars (I now have 3) really shine in a 
> looping
> >context where layering can really wreck feedback havoc with a 
> conventional
> >acoustic guitar. I also have been getting excellent results in my 
> home studio
> >where issues of space, noise floor, and self-engineering hassles 
> sometimes
> >make recording acoustic guitars with conventional miking 
> techniques
> >impractical.
> >   We at Renaissance are a small factory without much advertising 
> budget, and
> >we realize that the one of the best ways to get our instruments out 
> in the
> >public eye, is to get them in the hands of working pros, and 
> stimulate the
> >buzz on the street. That being said, I have been given the green 
> light by
> >Rick to offer pro discounts to members of loopers delight, for any 
> of our
> >production models. So as not to incur the wrath of our dealer 
> network, we can
> >only offer this deal to LD members and not friends of friends.  
> Also in the
> >interest of discretion I am not including pricing in this e-mail, 
> and I'm
> >asking interested parties to get in touch with me directly at my 
> e-mail
> >address: chillyb@cruzio.com, or at the renaissance e-mail address:
> >rturner466@aol.com, or by phone at the shop: 831-460-9144 between 
> 10am-2 PM
> >PST, and I can fill you in on the details. In the Renaissance line 
> we make
> >both 4 and 5 string fretted and fretless Basses , 6 and 12 string  
> standard
> >and baritone guitars, and two different models of nylon string 
> classical
> >guitars. We also make the Electroline series of 4 and 5 string 
> basses and the
> >acclaimed M1 electric guitar. Lindsey Buckingham's weapon of choice 
> for the
> >last twenty odd years. Also you might want to check out the reviews 
> on
> >Harmony Central, one of which I wrote before I started working for
> >Renaissance. I would be happy to send literature to anyone 
> interested, and
> >also check us out online at www.renaissanceguitars.com.
> >Thanks,
> >Bill Walker
> >Renaissance Guitars
> >
> 
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 00:01:19 2001
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To make my raised level, I cut peices of plexi-glass and built it that way.
It's easy to work with and cheep (a chemical bonds the edges together), but
best of all you can see under it. I also drilled holes to run the wires
through then soldered the tips on in place for maximum stability and
customization, but you have to know what you want first. 

I took all of the power suplies completely out of the board and mounted them
mid-way on a customized dolly, the bottom of which holds the footboard and
the top of which doubles as a rack mount and keyboard stand. (If any of you
are product developers--mackie, fender, gibson, whoever!--give me a ring
(USA 415.902.1098)... this is only the begining of a greater design of
something that really should be out there on the market.)

My question to Mike Killian is what did you use for the board itself. I dig
my little riser, but the board itself is just an SBK deal and I'm not at all
satisfide with it. It works, but things are a loose and a little cumbersome.


What I realy need is a fully customized deal--maybe even remove the
electronics, wire the boxes together and mount them in a plastic molded
customized jobby or something. Any suggestions?



Thanks! 

     Chris Darrow.

     (Ken Cumani does not exist.)



On Tue, 04 Dec 2001 16:52:59 -0600, Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
wrote:

>  
>  
>  
>  > So that's it. In a nutshell, the problems are:
>  >
>  > -placement of effects send/return cables--avoiding ac lines/power
strips
>  
>  I would try to focus in on what makes the most noise and put it last in
the
>  chain before the send cable back to the amp.  Also trying different
settings
>  with the trim pots on the Digitech(s) and the Boomerang.  My Boomerangs
can be
>  noisy if I don't stay on the trim knobs on the back.  Sounds like you
checked
>  the obvious, i.e. good quality patch cords, separation of the power
cables,
>  etc.  I use a Spinal Tappish dual level setup with a raised section for
GR-33
>  Synth and little stomp boxes, lower level for Line6 pedals and digitech
whammy.
>  It is a pain to move but looks way cool.  Power strips, wall warts, extra
cable
>  all fit underneath the upper level.  Haven't had any noise problems with
this.
>  Two Boomerangs go on a separate board next to this one.  BTW how do you
like the
>  Space Station?  I've been thinking about picking one up.
>  
>  >
>  >
>  > -minimizing noise, both between effects in effects loop, and those
straight
>  > into amp.
>  
>  > -pedalboard stock
>  
>  >
>  
>  > Any Ideas? Have any of you successfully dealt with any of these issues?
>  >
>  > Thanks,
>  >
>  > Paul
>





______________________________________________________________________________
Send a friend your Buddy Card and stay in contact always with Excite Messenger
http://messenger.excite.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 00:42:47 2001
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From: Ken Cumali <Ken.Cumali@excite.com>
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Subject: Re: pedalboard wiring and noise -- snip sheild on one end.
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When I first started asking people how to wire all this crap together, there
was a general consensis that connecting the positve and negative-with-sheild
on one end but snipping the sheild on the other such that it's only + and -
reduced overall noise in the system---provided you wired everything in the
same direction. It doesn't matter which is snipped, the sending or receiving
end, as long as they're all uniform. 

I chose to wire EVERYTHING in my system (that was unblalenced) with the
sheild and negative connected on the send end because the theory behind this
seemed to be that excess noise and power would go out through the sheild and
dead end, then get sucked back into the chassy of the unit since it had no
where to go. I didn't want it all to go into the mixer (as it would if
sheilds were connected on the receiving end). Just seemed more isolated this
way. 

I don't know if it amounted to a hill of beans, but my system is pretty
quitet and it's all stomp boxes. I didn't really ever hear it all together
wired normally as a reference point though. 

I doubt it'll make a recognizable difference, but it's something you could
try for that one noisy unit of yours.

It the risk of sounding really confusing, I'm including a little more info
below for you to reference if need be, but in the end, you should contact
someone who A) really knows what they're talking about and B) knows your
particular device if you get into this and have questions.

It is important to note that were talking about using balanced three
conductor cable for unbalanced two connection (positive, sheild)devices and
that the negative of the wire on the snipped end goes into the SHEILD on the
unit. Generally, it wont matter. If you are wireing directly to something
with only to spots and one of them is positive, then the other's what you
want weather or not they call it sheild or negative. If there are three,
however come out the sheild but put a jumper over to the negative on the
send end. 

Normally in unbalanced systems, there's positve and sheild, which I'm told
is the same as the "negative" in this case and provides a "reference" for
the positive. I have no idea in what way the negative is a "reference", so
if anyone knows how to explain what's physically going on there [besides
just completing the cerquit], I'm all ears. Or eyes, as the case may be.

In balanced systems, the + is the sound, the - it's reference, and the
sheild is the power. Keeping them seporate is best, obviously.

Please, someone correct me if I've gotten any of the theory wrong. All I can
tell you for sure is that I did this and my system's quiet. 



Goodluck!




     Chris Darrow. 

     (Ken Cumali does not exist.)
 

On Tue, 04 Dec 2001 17:32:31 -0800, Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
wrote:

>  >Furman has a new pedal board with integrated power conditioner, pedal
power
>  >leads, and power strip= retail is like $300
>  
>  One drawback to the Furman pedalboard is that each pedal can draw no more
>  than 100mA.  The Digitech stuff pulls around 800mA, so you'll need to use
>  another power supply for those.
>  
>  TH
>  
>  -- 
>  Electrochakra website: http://www.electrochakra.com
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>





______________________________________________________________________________
Send a friend your Buddy Card and stay in contact always with Excite Messenger
http://messenger.excite.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 02:13:52 2001
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From: Eric Leonardson <eleon@ripco.com>
Subject: Upcoming Performances & Broadcasts
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Upcoming Performances & Broadcasts:

2-4 p.m. CST Wednesday, December 5: "the job of Catherine and 
myself..." a live work for radio on memory, produced and performed by 
students of Eric Leonardson's 4-D studio course. Webcast on free 
radio SAIC: http://www.artic.edu/webspaces/freeradio/

10 p.m. Thursday, December 6:  $7 Student Preview of Plasticene's 
"Volume XII" at the Viaduct, 3111 N. Western Ave. between Barry and 
Belmont Avenues, Chicago.

Volume XII is an original of piece theater based in physical action 
rather than words. Using three actors, a table, two moveable 
staircases, and a stack of encyclopedias, it tells a story of love, 
hope and betrayal. Cinematic lighting and live electronic music (many 
loops effects) by Eric Leonardson complete this irreverent and 
haunting vision.

"Brilliant... a place that bristles with ferocious physical energy, 
biting humor, edgy eroticism and feverish imagination... a 
tour-de-force."- Chicago Sun-Times. Performances continue for two 
weekends: December 7-9 and 13-16, at 8:30 p.m. For reservations call 
(312) 409-0400.


---------------------
Eric Leonardson: http://pages.ripco.net/~eleon

Upcoming Performances & Broadcasts:

2-4 p.m. Wednesday, December 5: "the job of Catherine and myself..." 
a live work for radio on memory. Webcast on Free Radio SAIC: 
http://www.artic.edu/webspaces/freeradio/

10 p.m. Thursday, December 6:  $7 Student Preview of Plasticene's 
"Volume XII" at the Viaduct, 3111 N. Western Ave. Performances 
continue for two weekends: December 7-9 and 13-16, at 8:30 p.m. For 
reservations call (312) 409-0400.

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From: Doug Lawrence <dlawren@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: pedalboard wiring: layout and noise issues
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Cc: paulsull@gis.net
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>> I'm also looking for a way to build my own pedalboard.

For years I was going to build my own pedalboard, then I stumbled across
exactly what I was looking to build at NGM pedalboards:

http://www.austintx.net/dexter/ngm/

The bottom of the case is where the effects are attached, so you just pop
off the lid and are ready to go. Plus, the second level shelf fits my Line 6
pedals exactly. It was simply the best investment I made this year. They
have standard sizes and can also make some custom sizes as well ... the case
is put together really nice with good fit and finish. Nick at NGM was great
to deal with as well ...

>> -minimizing noise, both between effects in effects
>> loop, and those straight  into amp.

I almost hate to say it, but when I got the pedalboard, I also skeptically
ordered George L's cables and solderless fittings so I could easily cut
custom fit wiring. Well, to be honest, it really ~does~ sound much more
quiet than when I used regular patch cables ... so I would recommend
checking them out:

http://www.georgels.com/

What's nice is I can mix right angle and straight phono plugs to make
positioning the pedals on the board easier ...




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From: "Eric Williamson" <erwill@suitandtieguy.com>
To: <loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Central IL gig-spam, suitandtieguy.com vs five12.com in an electronic battle to the death
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 02:01:20 -0600
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I figure this is ON-TOPIC, as Five12 and i will have no less than SIX loopers
onstage at any given time. haha

That's right!! Another Suit & Tie Guy vs Five12 show, right here in Central
Illinois!

Whack Beats!!
Whack Projections!!
Whack Textures!!

and best of all ...

FREE!!!

Numerology Level 3
7pm, Saturday December 8
Happy Thought Coffee
953 N Second Street
Chillicothe IL 61523

i hope to see you there!

Eric Williamson
www.suitandtieguy.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 04:40:45 2001
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References: <F5AB8D89-E921-11D5-B50E-00039313A494@zerocrossing.net>
Subject: Re: VERY interesting article!!!
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:09:13 -0000
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It'll certainly be the beginning of a standards war, if previous experience
holds true.  Whaddaya think, will we have something we can all use by oh,
2005?  Or perhaps some of us will be called "purists" for wanting to play
our own instruments instead of a synthesizer at a listener's computer that
approximates our own instruments for us.  Will the firefight on LD go on for
more than a week? :)


> Could this FINALLY be the end of MIDI?  I sure do hope so.
>
> Mark
>
> On Tuesday, December 4, 2001, at 11:12 AM, Mike Feeney wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >     When guitars go digital:
> >
> >     http://www.techtv.com/news/culture/story/0,24195,3363342,00.html
> >
> >     they're predicting guitars to ship with ethernet ports as opposed to
> > 1/4" analog jacks within 12-18 months.
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 05:33:17 2001
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Subject: RE: pedalboard wiring: layout and noise issues
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 02:01:13 -0800
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Cheap custom pedal board:

1/2" (or was it 3/8"/) plywood - ~ $4
Cheap soft keyboard case from Guitar Center ~$20
Can of black spray paint - $1.50
Industrial strength Velco - $10
Zip-ties for those real heavy pedals - ~$1
Power strip - $10

No, it's not what I'd call "flight worthy", but it sure keeps things
neat and cheap.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 06:25:47 2001
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Subject: RE: pedalboard wiring: layout and noise issues
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If anyone has some space, it would be great if we could post some jpegs of
our pedalboards...

-t-

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and the mess around it !!!!

Claude

Tim Nelson wrote:
> 
> If anyone has some space, it would be great if we could post some jpegs of
> our pedalboards...
> 
> -t-

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 09:40:36 2001
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If you guys mail your jpegs to me I will post them for you
72 dpi 5x7ish please
regards
c


On Wed, 05 Dec 2001 14:12:49 +0100
 Claude Voit <c.voit@vtx.ch> wrote:
> and the mess around it !!!!
> 
> Claude
> 
> Tim Nelson wrote:
> > 
> > If anyone has some space, it would be great if we could
> post some jpegs of
> > our pedalboards...
> > 
> > -t-
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 10:23:25 2001
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> If you guys NEED SPACE mail your jpegs to me I will post
them for
> you
> 72 dpi 5x7ish please
> regards
> c
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 12:06:23 2001
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        "Michael Raphael" <mercury@ureach.com>
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Subject: Re: L.I.F.E.
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What is the WEB-link for info on L.I..F.E. ?

----- Original Message -----
From: "SOTO VALENCIA ANDRESRODOLFO" <smaug@servidor.unam.mx>
To: "Michael Raphael" <mercury@ureach.com>
Cc: "Loopers-Delight-d-request@loopers-delight.com"
<Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: L.I.F.E.


>
>      It's a chain reaction,David your stuff is great but thanks for
> showing us this amazing little gizmo!!
>
>   I know what I want for christmas, Santa!:-D
>
>
> A+
>
>
>
> On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, Michael Raphael wrote:
>
> > David,
> >
> > I took a listen to "LIFE - Track 4", and decided to look up
> > this amazing little instrument.  I'm in love.  I HAVE to get a
> > LIFE!  Thanks for the introduction!
> >
> > Blessed be,
> > :-)Michael
> >
> >
> > <<<<SNIP>>>>
> > I used a DL4 exclusively with the Little Infinite Frequency
> > Expander instrument on my CD "The L.I.F.E. Album". (Samples at:
> > www.mp3.com/davidtalento) The growls and pings and scrapes are
> > all  LIFE into the DL4 and it was flexible enough for me to use
> > almost all the features and presets on a 60 minute album
> > without duplicating much. I can't say that about many delays
> > out there.
> >
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 12:10:30 2001
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Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 11:40:59 -0500
Subject: Re: OT: Renaissance Guitars
From: mr monk <monk@fuse.net>
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i also have a rick turner fretless nylon string guitar that is absolutely
stunning. i'm an endorser for rick, and i can only say that i'd be raving
about these even if i'd paid retail. they are amazing. the pickkup system is
simply light years ahead of anything else i've ever heard on a nylon string.


ric hordinski
monk



-- 
monk@fuse.net
www.monkmusic.com
on 12/4/01 11:19 PM, tony moore at tony-moore@juno.com wrote:

> hey guys,
> 
> i've been playing rick's basses (fretless renassaince and electroline and
> fretted piccolo ren) for about 3-4 years now and can't recommend them
> highly enough. the ren fretless is the most expressive instrument i've
> ever laid my hands on. and anyone that has the guts to make an instrument
> with just one tone knob as the only eq (and sound freakin' incredible!)
> is my undisputed hero :-)
> 
> kudos!
> 
> tony
> 
> ps - did i say they're dang pretty too?
> 
> 
> On Tue, 4 Dec 2001 15:10:23 -0800 "William R. Walker,"
> <chillyb@cruzio.com> writes:
>> 
>> Greetings fellow Loopers. When I'm not gigging, looping my brains
>> out, or
>>> teaching guitar, I work part time  for luthier extraodinaire Rick
>> Turner at
>>> Renaissance Guitar Co. I first became aware of Rick's innovative
>> creations in
>>> 1998 shortly after receiving my brand new Jeff Traugott acoustic
>> guitar.
>>> After a few high anxiety gigs under adverse acoustic conditions I
>> realized I
>>> needed a guitar that didn't make me nervous when I took it out on
>> gigs,  and
>>> wasn't prone to feedback like all fine acoustic guitars ultimately
>> are. My
>>> search led me to Rick Turner who had just moved his shop to Santa
>> Cruz where
>>> I live. Rick's innovative semi-acoustic designs coupled with
>> arguably the
>>> best custom electronics available prompted me to purchase my first
>>> Renaissance RS-6.  Even Jeff Traugott admitted that in an amplified
>> setting,
>>> The Renaissance sounded better than my Traugott guitar with a good
>> pickup.
>>> This is high praise indeed coming form Jeff who makes a world
>> renown acoustic
>>> guitar, I find my Ren guitars (I now have 3) really shine in a
>> looping
>>> context where layering can really wreck feedback havoc with a
>> conventional
>>> acoustic guitar. I also have been getting excellent results in my
>> home studio
>>> where issues of space, noise floor, and self-engineering hassles
>> sometimes
>>> make recording acoustic guitars with conventional miking
>> techniques
>>> impractical.
>>> We at Renaissance are a small factory without much advertising
>> budget, and
>>> we realize that the one of the best ways to get our instruments out
>> in the
>>> public eye, is to get them in the hands of working pros, and
>> stimulate the
>>> buzz on the street. That being said, I have been given the green
>> light by
>>> Rick to offer pro discounts to members of loopers delight, for any
>> of our
>>> production models. So as not to incur the wrath of our dealer
>> network, we can
>>> only offer this deal to LD members and not friends of friends.
>> Also in the
>>> interest of discretion I am not including pricing in this e-mail,
>> and I'm
>>> asking interested parties to get in touch with me directly at my
>> e-mail
>>> address: chillyb@cruzio.com, or at the renaissance e-mail address:
>>> rturner466@aol.com, or by phone at the shop: 831-460-9144 between
>> 10am-2 PM
>>> PST, and I can fill you in on the details. In the Renaissance line
>> we make
>>> both 4 and 5 string fretted and fretless Basses , 6 and 12 string
>> standard
>>> and baritone guitars, and two different models of nylon string
>> classical
>>> guitars. We also make the Electroline series of 4 and 5 string
>> basses and the
>>> acclaimed M1 electric guitar. Lindsey Buckingham's weapon of choice
>> for the
>>> last twenty odd years. Also you might want to check out the reviews
>> on
>>> Harmony Central, one of which I wrote before I started working for
>>> Renaissance. I would be happy to send literature to anyone
>> interested, and
>>> also check us out online at www.renaissanceguitars.com.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Bill Walker
>>> Renaissance Guitars
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 


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Subject: Re: Re: L.I.F.E.
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http://www.technomage.freeserve.co.uk/life.htm





---- On Wed, 5 Dec 2001, Bill Cummings (billcumm@sprynet.com) 
wrote:

> What is the WEB-link for info on L.I..F.E. ?
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "SOTO VALENCIA ANDRESRODOLFO" <smaug@servidor.unam.mx>
> To: "Michael Raphael" <mercury@ureach.com>
> Cc: "Loopers-Delight-d-request@loopers-delight.com"
> <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 3:28 PM
> Subject: Re: L.I.F.E.
> 
> 
> >
> >      It's a chain reaction,David your stuff is great but 
thanks for
> > showing us this amazing little gizmo!!
> >
> >   I know what I want for christmas, Santa!:-D
> >
> >
> > A+
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, Michael Raphael wrote:
> >
> > > David,
> > >
> > > I took a listen to "LIFE - Track 4", and decided to look 
up
> > > this amazing little instrument.  I'm in love.  I HAVE to 
get a
> > > LIFE!  Thanks for the introduction!
> > >
> > > Blessed be,
> > > :-)Michael
> > >
> > >
> > > <<<<SNIP>>>>
> > > I used a DL4 exclusively with the Little Infinite 
Frequency
> > > Expander instrument on my CD "The L.I.F.E. Album". 
(Samples at:
> > > www.mp3.com/davidtalento) The growls and pings and 
scrapes are
> > > all  LIFE into the DL4 and it was flexible enough for me 
to use
> > > almost all the features and presets on a 60 minute album
> > > without duplicating much. I can't say that about many 
delays
> > > out there.
> > >
> >
> 
> 
> 

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Subject: RE: Renaissance Guitars/rick turner
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 12:33:18 -0500 
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gushing praise:

rick is the man when it comes to the electronics end of the electric
instrument.

my foderas have both his piezo film pickups and his magnetic pickups in 'em.
all sound very clear and natural and like the instrument (i can hear the
wood!)

[bill please tell him to finish my new stuff soon!!! :-) ]

stig


<font size="1">Confidentiality Warning:  This e-mail contains information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above.  If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, any dissemination, publication or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. The sender does not accept any responsibility for any loss, disruption or damage to your data or computer system that may occur while using data contained in, or transmitted with, this e-mail.   If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us by return e-mail.  Thank you.


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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>gushing praise:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>rick is the man when it comes to the electronics end of t=
he electric instrument.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>my foderas have both his piezo film pickups and his magne=
tic pickups in 'em. all sound very clear and natural and like the instrumen=
t (i can hear the wood!)</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>[bill please tell him to finish my new stuff soon!!! :-) =
]</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>stig</FONT>
</P>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 13:42:51 2001
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 <007001c17d6c$82f63cc0$0201a8c0@stephen>
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 10:10:02 -0800
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From: Alex Stahl <alex@pixar.com>
Subject: Re: VERY interesting article!!!
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Personally, I'm quietly planning to get rich quick selling 
all-vacuum-tube ethernet hubs. :-)

A lot of people seem to be misunderstanding what this technology is. 
It's not so much about guitar synthesizers or computer simulations, 
but more about putting a preamp and analog to digital converter 
inside the instrument, then sending audio samples over a network.

Of course there is still plenty of room for purists who prefer 
specific analog effects, but for people who plug into a rack or floor 
full of digital effects, and constantly mess with routing, patching 
and mixing, this kind of approach can work really well.

Realisitically, audio-over-ethernet isn't new, and from what I read 
MaGIC is this year's acronym for pretty much the same technology 
Gibson showed last year at AES under the moniker GMICS.

Don't get me wrong, I am very much in favor of low-cost single-cable 
audio/control/power wiring schemes for music. I've been using 
Cobranet (64 channels of audio over 100BaseT) heavily over the past 
year and it's been fantastic.






At 9:09 AM +0000 12/5/01, Stephen P. Goodman wrote:
>It'll certainly be the beginning of a standards war, if previous experience
>holds true.  Whaddaya think, will we have something we can all use by oh,
>2005?  Or perhaps some of us will be called "purists" for wanting to play
>our own instruments instead of a synthesizer at a listener's computer that
>approximates our own instruments for us.  Will the firefight on LD go on for
>more than a week? :)
>
>
>  > Could this FINALLY be the end of MIDI?  I sure do hope so.
>  >
>  > Mark
>  >
>  > On Tuesday, December 4, 2001, at 11:12 AM, Mike Feeney wrote:
>  >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >     When guitars go digital:
>  > >
>  > >     http://www.techtv.com/news/culture/story/0,24195,3363342,00.html
>  > >
>  > >     they're predicting guitars to ship with ethernet ports as opposed to
>  > > 1/4" analog jacks within 12-18 months.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > _________________________________________________________
>  > > Do You Yahoo!?
>  > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>  > >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 13:47:57 2001
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Subject: Re: VERY interesting article!!!
From: Allan Hoeltje <ahoeltje@best.com>
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The article wasn't too rich with detail but they made a big claim about no
latency - this just isn't physically possible when converting low bass notes
to midi.  But converting analog to digital is no problem.  So my take on it
is that the main reason for ethernet on a musical instrument would be so the
analog to digital conversion could be done on the instrument as the notes
are played.  This would mean every thing down stream from the player would
need to be digital.

Now I suppose the instrument could also generate midi signals (especially
keyboards - no conversion necessary) and those could also be sent out on the
net.  But I believe that this is not so much a replacement for midi but a
unification of analog and midi into a common digital transport.

Overall a pretty cool idea.  But I hope it doesn't leave poor teenage kids
and their garage bands out in the cold.  Then again what a market this would
create for pure retro analog instruments, effects, and amps.

-Allan


on 12/4/01 5:46 PM, Mark Sottilaro at sine@zerocrossing.net wrote:

> Could this FINALLY be the end of MIDI?  I sure do hope so.
> 
> Mark
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 14:49:05 2001
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Subject: Check out Musical Instruments Makers {M. KHALID PIPE CO.}
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 thought this might be of interest to some, click on the products 
icon.....got to get me some o dem monkey drums.....:)m

<A HREF="http://www.khalidpipe.com/index.htm">Click here: Musical Instruments Makers {M. KHALID PIPE CO.}</A> 

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2> thought this might be of interest to some, click on the products icon.....got to get me some o dem monkey drums.....:)m<BR>
<BR>
<A HREF="http://www.khalidpipe.com/index.htm">Click here: Musical Instruments Makers {M. KHALID PIPE CO.}</A> </FONT></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 15:05:58 2001
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Subject: Re: VERY interesting article!!!
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>Overall a pretty cool idea.  But I hope it doesn't leave poor teenage kids
>and their garage bands out in the cold.

nah...some teenage kids may start doing some really whacked stuff in 
their garages with hacked together pieces of the digital refuse we 
are continually creating...

i'm sure there are plenty of us here that remember when 808's and 
303's could be bought for nearly nothing at some downtown pawn 
shop...because they were considered 'old' and useless...

and look what the liberal repurposing of those turned into?

the oversaturation and hypermarketing of musical intruments/recording 
gear that is happening at the moment bothers me very much (as i've 
said too many times before), but i must admit...it does put a twinkle 
in my eye thinking about how much cool stuff will be available a few 
years from now...considered old and useless and waiting for my grubby 
little hands.

rich

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 15:41:12 2001
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Thank you for this explanation (Ok, I'm, like, 6 digests late...).
So I was not so deluded and not so tired (awful typos apart), which is
quite comfortable for my poor mind.
Thank you by the way, for pointing the existence of other discs , shame
on me, I did not know about.

May I dare add to all the nice people here that it is at least a
definitive "must listen" type ?


By the way, Oliver Sachs would not be so bad...

Olivier Malhomme


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 16:04:07 2001
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> i also have a rick turner fretless nylon string guitar that is absolutely
> stunning. i'm an endorser for rick, and i can only say that i'd be raving
> about these even if i'd paid retail. they are amazing. the pickkup system is
> simply light years ahead of anything else i've ever heard on a nylon string.

you're playing fretless now? Have you got anything recorded with it - I'd love to hear it...

cheers

Steve 
www.steve-lawson.co.uk 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 16:18:42 2001
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Subject: Crest Audio introduces "world's best looping/experimental music mixer"
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http://aes.harmony-central.com/111AES/Content/Crest_Audio/PR/XR-M.html

Crest Audio introduced the new XR-M, a truly compact and versatile rack-mount,
monitor mixer designed to provide fully professional, desktop quality mixing
performance in control applications, fixed installation systems and more.

Housed in a compact ten rack-space package, the Crest XR-M can provide up to 12
independent mono mixes, or up to six stereo mixes for stereo "in-ear" monitoring
systems. The XR-M takes up minimal space in a sound control booth, and is small
enough to travel as carry-on luggage with musicians who take their own self
contained in-ear system with them on the road. Highly versatile, it can be used
as a mono/stereo matrix mixer with 12 mono and four stereo mic/line input
channels, all with mic preamps and individual 48V phantom power switches.

blah blah blah

this looks cool.

Eric Williamson
www.suitandtieguy.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 16:32:11 2001
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Has anyone else been promised this?

    Kevin

On 12/4/01 3:34 PM, "Linda Marie" <snackpack@backpacker.com> wrote:

> I AM SELLING ALL OF MY DJ GEAR:
> 
> 2 Technics 1200 MK2s
> 1 Numark DM3000X Pro Mixer
> Technics DJ-1200 Headphones
> Stanton Trackmasters
> Alesis Microverb Digital Effects Processor
> 
> All for $545, includes shipping.
> 
> See the web page we made:
> 
> http://dj-gear.tripod.com
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Sign-UP for your FREE Backpacker Email at http://www.backpacker.com/email
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> P.S. Click here to get a FREE trial issue of BACKPACKER:
> http://www.backpacker.com/subs/home.rhtml/I9KF001
> 
> 

-- 
Unit Circle Media
http://www.unitcircle.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 16:39:44 2001
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Now I'm not a guitar player (though I have a lot of friends who are), but
isn't a guitar's sound colored a great deal by the interaction of the
pick-up and pre-amp?  And also by the power-amp and speaker?  So a built-in
pre-amp/DAC/ethernet would pretty much lock you into a given sound, wouldn't
it?  Of course you can twist the sound as much as you like at the receiving
end but that's a different matter.  And I assume you could add an ethernet
connection to your amp, too.  But then, where does the direct connection go
to on a vocalist?  Perhaps a simple medical procedure?  Hmm?  ;)

Otherwise, it's pretty cool!

Dennis Leas
-------------------
dennis@mdbs.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 16:54:13 2001
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 13:22:23 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Jeff Blanding <jeff@modaldub.net>
Subject: Re: Crest Audio introduces "world's best looping/experimental
 music mixer"
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looks cool, but is way too big for me - 10 rack spaces! it may be 
compact for what it does, but personally i would rather have a mackie 
1202 or and even smaller behringer or something. i would not want to 
carry this puppy on a place thats for sure.

-jeff



>http://aes.harmony-central.com/111AES/Content/Crest_Audio/PR/XR-M.html
>
>Crest Audio introduced the new XR-M, a truly compact and versatile rack-mount,
>monitor mixer designed to provide fully professional, desktop quality mixing
>performance in control applications, fixed installation systems and more.
>
>Housed in a compact ten rack-space package, the Crest XR-M can 
>provide up to 12
>independent mono mixes, or up to six stereo mixes for stereo 
>"in-ear" monitoring
>systems. The XR-M takes up minimal space in a sound control booth, 
>and is small
>enough to travel as carry-on luggage with musicians who take their own self
>contained in-ear system with them on the road. Highly versatile, it 
>can be used
>as a mono/stereo matrix mixer with 12 mono and four stereo mic/line input
>channels, all with mic preamps and individual 48V phantom power switches.
>
>blah blah blah
>
>this looks cool.
>
>Eric Williamson
>www.suitandtieguy.com

-- 

----- ----- ----- ----- -----

Jeff Blanding
jeff@modaldub.net
http://www.modaldub.net/

----- ----- ----- ----- -----

"Who ever needed a majority? Ten percent plus the police and the 
military is all it ever took."
- William S. Burroughs


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 17:00:30 2001
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Subject: Re: Crest Audio introduces "world's best looping/experimental
	music mixer"
From: Kevin Goldsmith <kevin@unitcircle.com>
To: <loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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Wow, very cool, but 10 spaces?
-- 
Unit Circle Media
http://www.unitcircle.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 17:15:59 2001
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Kevin Goldsmith wrote:

> Has anyone else been promised this?

I got an email asking me to Western Union cash ASAP. It raised a red flag since
I specifically asked for a phone number and I didn't get one.  I wrote him back
asking for a phone contact and references (offering the same of course) and
haven't heard anything since.

It may be legit but best case the seller seems a little anxious and ignorant on
internet sales, worst case a possible scam.

That said, I hope it's on the up and up. I'm passing since I don't need the
risk or even the gear :)

____________________________________________________________________
HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.HelpWantedProductions.com
"Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..."

Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and
info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more.


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 17:37:31 2001
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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:05:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Mary Jane Adams <maverickmary@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V01 #709
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Hi,

I'm new to looping and brand new to this list
(this is my first post). In relation to the
recent discussion about the Line6 DL4, I'm trying
to compare the DL4 with the Boomerang. Are these
apples and oranges? I read reviews on both in the
Looping tools section of this site, and also I
read some of the archived feedback. Could some of
you share situations in which you use both tools?


I've also been told that the Boomerang and DL4
are preferable live, but in recording situations,
you're better off with a software tool like Acid.
I bought Acid a while back, but I haven't sunk my
teeth into it yet. I would rather make my own
loops than buy the libraries. However, some of
those libraries look very good.

Anyway, looking for guidance. Thanks!

MJ

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 18:02:59 2001
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From: "Rick Walker \(loop.pool\)" <GLOBAL@cruzio.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <200112051828.NAA13196@hemlock.violacea.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Renaissance Guitars
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:34:12 -0800
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I have played trapset/multiple percussion on tour with Martin Simpson and
Bob Brozman.

Bob Brozman has always been known as a meticulous phenom on the national
resonator steel guitar.   For many years,  as a dedicated antiquarian, we
were forced to rent gigantic figerglass cases to hall stand up basses around
Europe.

Before the last performance we did at Festival D'Ete in Quebec City, Quebec,
the incredible bassist, Doug Robinson flew to California for rehearsals and
brought his brand new Rick Turner Renaissance Acoustic Fretless Bass.

I can't stress how adamant Brozman has been about having things just
perfect.
He once had me play a leather covered african jun jun with a mallet and
recorded it from two rooms away in the studio with a cheap mic just so he
could get
the 'authentic' sound from old twenties vinyl 78s(remember vinyl kiddies?).

Anyway, long story, longer:  he flipped out over the sound of the
Renaissance Bass.  It is the closest thing that I've heard to an upright
acoustic bass yet it also has it's own beautiful sound.  We haven't toured
with another instrument since then.

I can't highly recommend it enough!!!!  I'd give my left nut to own one (I'm
not a bassist but I play one on Bass Looping Tours ;-)

yours,  Rick Walker  (loop.pool)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 18:13:21 2001
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You can make your own loops with Acid.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mary Jane Adams" <maverickmary@yahoo.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V01 #709


> Hi,
> 
> I'm new to looping and brand new to this list
> (this is my first post). In relation to the
> recent discussion about the Line6 DL4, I'm trying
> to compare the DL4 with the Boomerang. Are these
> apples and oranges? I read reviews on both in the
> Looping tools section of this site, and also I
> read some of the archived feedback. Could some of
> you share situations in which you use both tools?
> 
> 
> I've also been told that the Boomerang and DL4
> are preferable live, but in recording situations,
> you're better off with a software tool like Acid.
> I bought Acid a while back, but I haven't sunk my
> teeth into it yet. I would rather make my own
> loops than buy the libraries. However, some of
> those libraries look very good.
> 
> Anyway, looking for guidance. Thanks!
> 
> MJ
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 18:30:27 2001
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        phonography@egroups.com
Subject: 12/14 - Field Recordings show in San Francisco
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 14:58:54 -0800
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Field Effects: a night of beauty made by the world

Friday, December 14

Door 8:00 pm, performance 8:30 pm sharp.

$6-10 sliding scale, no one turned away for lack of funds.

----> Event Description <-----------------------------------------------

The world makes music, remember to listen. The world makes movies,
remember to look.

Field Effects offers a night of field recording based performance.

Featuring sound artists:

Loren Chasse (SF)
     http://www.23five.org/lchasse/
Tape Recorder (Oakland)
     Matt Davignon's tape-based project, samples available at:
     http://www.mp3.com/field_recordings/
Quiet American (SF)
     http://www.quietamerican.org

And featuring projection by:

Keith Evans (SF) of silt
Carl Diehl (SF)
      Kinetic engineer travelling through time with a VCR.
Richard Holland (Madison, WI)
     West coast premier of his stunning "tiny movies"
     http://www.ponderance.org/holland/TinyMoviesMenu.html

Field Effects is a showcase of Bay Area artists interested in framing the
hidden beauty of the everyday world. Beauty on the surface, awaiting our
attention. Beauty that must be delicately extracted. And beauty in
potential, awaiting juxtaposition, collage, repetition and mutilation.

Field recordings are made out in the world, not the studio. Fair game:
machines, animals, weather, vehicles, buskers, hawkers, preachers,
objects, and the mad.

Seating on futons to encourage comfortable listening and viewing.

Out of respect for the onset of winter, hot drinks will be available.

----> Venue Info <------------------------------------------------------

964 Natoma
(between 10th and 11th, and Mission and Howard)
San Francisco, CA 94103

A few blocks from Civic Center BART.  One block from Market & Van Ness.

Bike parking inside.

Map at Mapquest:
http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?BFCat=&Pyt=Tmap&newFL=Use+Address+Below&addr=964+Natoma&csz=San+Francisco%2C+CA&Country=us&Get%A0Map=Get+Map



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 18:49:21 2001
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To: "'Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com'"
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Subject: RE: OT: Renaissance Guitars
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 18:16:21 -0500 
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I'd give my left nut to own one 

** (devil appears) REALLY?


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<P><FONT SIZE=2>I'd give my left nut to own one </FONT>
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From: jim palmer <jimp@pobox.com>
Subject: Regulator mod for edp
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i just put in the new lower heat regulator and i am a bit worried about something.
the leads on this thing are pretty small and it doesn't seem to mount flush with the
pc board.  is this going to cause trouble when the unit is manhandled?
(by roadies after i become world-famous, for now i will be taking care of the abuse...)

is there a better way to mount this thing?



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 20:09:22 2001
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: nick ring <nick@simons-rock.edu>
Subject: Re: L.I.F.E.
In-Reply-To: <3C0D5133.C49A67A0@HelpWantedProductions.com>
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I exchanged several emails with him a couple of years back and had the same 
status report.  I would dearly like to have a L.I.F.E. (so to 
speak).  Seeing the current discussion I thought maybe he'd finally made 
some more... not that I could afford it at this point in my l-i-f-e.

I look forward to hearing your album.

                         -nick


>I traded emails with Grant @ Technomage a few times discussing the
>planning  of the album and shows and he's a true gadget madman. Alas,
>last I checked he is completely sold out of LIFE and they are no longer
>for sale. He has had plans for a newer version (LIFE II) for well over a
>year now but there's been no update to the web page or additional info.
>It looks amazing as well but apparently is still in the infant stages of
>production.
>
>You can gawk at it here at least:
>http://www.technomage.freeserve.co.uk/life2.htm

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 20:27:38 2001
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Subject: Re: VERY interesting article!!!
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 00:56:38 -0000
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I suspect that the main benefit for integrating something faster and (as
they say, gag) "more robust" for transmission of data between instruments
and... what?... would be in the area of studio setup.  One of the original
ideas I remember hearing in the early 80s from some techs at Roland had to
do with a grand concept encapsulating instrumental setup in studios.  The
idea being that synths could be just plugged in, and the patches/etc. sent
to them, before the musicians arrived.  Less time for checkout/setup at
least, I'd say... and not just for the musicians, but the studio techs as
well.

Naturally this setup benefit would also be seen on the road.  This would
imply that something well beyond Sysex via MIDI is in the works somehow.  At
least they're using Ethernet, so it'll be 100Mbs, which is galaxies away
from MIDI speed.

Analog / acoustic instruments need not apply, I suspect.  But since the
effort will be able to be shifted from setup for all instruments to just the
non-digital ones, I can at least hope that the science of non-digital setup
becomes more manageable over time.

 "Dennis Leas" <dennis@mdbs.com> put forth:
> Now I'm not a guitar player (though I have a lot of friends who are), but
> isn't a guitar's sound colored a great deal by the interaction of the
> pick-up and pre-amp?  And also by the power-amp and speaker?  So a
built-in
> pre-amp/DAC/ethernet would pretty much lock you into a given sound,
wouldn't
> it?  Of course you can twist the sound as much as you like at the
receiving
> end but that's a different matter.  And I assume you could add an ethernet
> connection to your amp, too.  But then, where does the direct connection
go
> to on a vocalist?  Perhaps a simple medical procedure?  Hmm?  ;)
>
> Otherwise, it's pretty cool!
>
> Dennis Leas
> -------------------
> dennis@mdbs.com
>
>
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 20:59:42 2001
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Subject: Wave Digital's new portable PC
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http://aes.harmony-central.com/111AES/Content/Wave_Digital/PR/Microwave.html

Curious marketing statement by Wave Digital's president:

"Since lots of Firewire, USB and Ethernet ports are important to musicians 
and producers, the MicroWave can be used as a stand-alone hard drive, a hub 
or a network computer that will enable Mac users to use PC loop-based 
sampler programs such as ACID and GIGASAMPLER. No longer will Mac music 
users be left in the dirt drooling over the lack of the ability to run these 
PC programs."

Paolo

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 21:14:53 2001
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Subject: OT: Buying a Chapman stick
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Hey,

One of my best friends/band members is going to take the plunge into the world
of the Chapman Stick.  Any advise?  Would there be problems with a used
instrument?  Are they impossible to set up?  She's also a woman, and has
smaller hands than most men, but she has no problems getting around on a
classical guitar.  Could this be an issue?  She also is looking for someone to
give her lessons in the SF bay area.  Her email is: schenk@psy.ucsf.edu

Mark Sottilaro

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 21:45:11 2001
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Subject: Re: Wave Digital's new portable PC
From: Kevin Goldsmith <kevin@unitcircle.com>
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As slashdot readers may know this is just a "branded" Cappuchino PC.  It's
pretty cool, but pretty useless for live performance since it still needs a
screen, might as well get a mini-laptop.

    Kevin

-- 
Unit Circle Media
http://www.unitcircle.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec  5 22:51:39 2001
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I own both-I use the DL4 for it's delay functions and the Boomerangs for
looping (although lately more folks from the list seem to have been
using it as a delay)
They are both great and for me very complimentary.  I use them live and
loop on the computer with ACID, both my own loops and purchased.  And
like any other gear, the correct answer to "which one" is always "yes".


Mary Jane Adams wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm new to looping and brand new to this list
> (this is my first post). In relation to the
> recent discussion about the Line6 DL4, I'm trying
> to compare the DL4 with the Boomerang. Are these
> apples and oranges?

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec  6 04:35:58 2001
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Subject: RE: Regulator mod for edp
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 03:04:14 -0600
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Yes, they are a bit flimsy. I do two things to these guys:-
1. Solder the legs above the PCB as well as below, where they bend over;
this makes them much more robust.
2. Put some hot-glue on the plastic base, down to the PCB, to further
stop them moving.
Out of the 800 or so EDPs we've made, none have had a problem with this
regulator, although we've had a few accidents in-house before they are
tested; operators snapping them clean off the board.

-----Original Message-----
From: jim palmer [mailto:jimp@pobox.com]
Sent: 05 December 2001 23:37
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Regulator mod for edp


i just put in the new lower heat regulator and i am a bit worried about
something.
the leads on this thing are pretty small and it doesn't seem to mount
flush with the
pc board.  is this going to cause trouble when the unit is manhandled?
(by roadies after i become world-famous, for now i will be taking care
of the abuse...)

is there a better way to mount this thing?



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec  6 04:40:43 2001
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Subject: Project/Object Strikes Again!
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 09:05:18 -0000
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I was delighted to see this notice on Mi2N:

=> PROJECT/OBJECT WELCOMES THREE GENERATIONS OF FRANK
ZAPPA ALUMNI ON EAST COAST TOUR; Former Zappa Band Members
Ike Willis, Napoleon Murphy Brock, Don Preston, Bunk Gardner
Help Rekindle Magic From '60s Through '90s
http://mi2n.com/press.php3?press_nb=30390



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec  6 05:23:22 2001
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Subject: RE: VERY interesting article!!!
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 03:51:04 -0600
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For more detailed explanation, go to http://magic.gibson.com/index.html
and you can read the entire specifications. This is a very serious
5-year project which has already cost many millions of $$$. 
I've worked with all members of the Magic team, and they are by far the
smartest guys I've ever dealt with; and a great laugh as well. 
Henry uses the very best people to realise these ideas, including the
lecturers at CiNMaT Berkley, which I've also had the privilege of
meeting. 
This is really exiting stuff; I've seen demos which quite frankly, were
unbelievable. One of our old friends, Adrian Legg, acoustic guitarist
par excellence, has been out with a 5.1 PA system that I designed, all
connected via 'Magic' and the results are amazing.
Andy @ Trace.

-----Original Message-----
From: Allan Hoeltje [mailto:ahoeltje@best.com]
Sent: 05 December 2001 18:20
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: VERY interesting article!!!


The article wasn't too rich with detail but they made a big claim about
no
latency - this just isn't physically possible when converting low bass
notes
to midi.  But converting analog to digital is no problem.  So my take on
it
is that the main reason for ethernet on a musical instrument would be so
the
analog to digital conversion could be done on the instrument as the
notes
are played.  This would mean every thing down stream from the player
would
need to be digital.

Now I suppose the instrument could also generate midi signals
(especially
keyboards - no conversion necessary) and those could also be sent out on
the
net.  But I believe that this is not so much a replacement for midi but
a
unification of analog and midi into a common digital transport.

Overall a pretty cool idea.  But I hope it doesn't leave poor teenage
kids
and their garage bands out in the cold.  Then again what a market this
would
create for pure retro analog instruments, effects, and amps.

-Allan


on 12/4/01 5:46 PM, Mark Sottilaro at sine@zerocrossing.net wrote:

> Could this FINALLY be the end of MIDI?  I sure do hope so.
> 
> Mark
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec  6 07:04:54 2001
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Subject: Fw:      Re: [SW] Fw: Buying a Chapman stick
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 08:28:09 -0600
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Virna Splendore" <splendore@GALACTICA.IT>
To: <STICKWIRE-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 1:10 AM
Subject: Re: [SW] Fw: Buying a Chapman stick


> >> Hey,
> >>
> >> One of my best friends/band members is going to take the plunge into
the
> >world
> >> of the Chapman Stick.  Any advise?  Would there be problems with a used
> >> instrument?  Are they impossible to set up?  She's also a woman, and
has
> >> smaller hands than most men, but she has no problems getting around on
a
> >> classical guitar.  Could this be an issue?  She also is looking for
> >someone to
> >> give her lessons in the SF bay area.  Her email is: schenk@psy.ucsf.edu
> >>
> >> Mark Sottilaro
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> I am Virna ... woman stick player with small hands :-)))
>
> I tryed to wrote a message to your friend but it came back to me has
> Undeliverable Mail...  so could you tell her to contact me for any
question
> or tell me another email address?
>
> thanks
> Ciao
> Virna

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec  6 09:36:56 2001
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Subject: Fw:      Re: [SW] Fw: Buying a Chapman stick
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Glenn M. Poorman" <glenn.poorman@AUTODESK.COM>
To: <STICKWIRE-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 7:03 AM
Subject: Re: [SW] Fw: Buying a Chapman stick


> You can check my own "Stick" page for some tidbits on getting
> your first Stick and also on various tunings.
>
>   www.detroitstick.com/stick.html
>
> Glenn
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Daniel [mailto:daniel_c@VTR.NET]
> > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 1:19 AM
> > To: STICKWIRE-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
> > Subject: [SW] Fw: Buying a Chapman stick
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mark Sottilaro" <sine@zerocrossing.net>
> > To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 7:42 PM
> > Subject: OT: Buying a Chapman stick
> >
> > > Hey,
> > >
> > > One of my best friends/band members is going to take the plunge into
the world
> > > of the Chapman Stick.  Any advise?  Would there be problems with a
used
> > > instrument?  Are they impossible to set up?  She's also a woman, and
has
> > > smaller hands than most men, but she has no problems getting around on
a
> > > classical guitar.  Could this be an issue?  She also is looking for
someone to
> > > give her lessons in the SF bay area.  Her email is:
schenk@psy.ucsf.edu
> > >
> > > Mark Sottilaro

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec  6 10:32:20 2001
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From: McCullaghJ@Logica.com
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Subject: Gigs : Erik Truffaz Quartet (and some looping) live in U.S.
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hi all ..

for those of you Stateside, it says on www.eriktruffaz.com that the
Ladyland Quartet will be playing NY (Tonic) on the 8th and 9th, and LA
(Knitting Factory) on the 10th of this month. I saw them a few months back,
and the drummer, Philippe Garcia, does some live looping of drums,
percussion and shouting into a megaphone (!) using what looked like it
might be a Boss RC-10 or other stompbox-sized widget. Guitarist Manu Codjia
also does some looping/delay stuff, but it's not a major part of his sound.

- jm




This e-mail and any attachment is for authorised use by the intended recipient(s) only.  It may contain proprietary material, confidential information and/or be subject to legal privilege.  It should not be copied, disclosed to, retained or used by, any other party.  If you are not an intended recipient then please promptly delete this e-mail and any attachment and all copies and inform the sender.  Thank you.

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Subject: Re: Syncing EDP with another looper
From: Steve Sandberg <stevesandberg@earthlink.net>
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> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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Does anyone know if there is another (small) looping device that I could
sync my EDP with other than another EDP?  I just got a Headrush, (which I
really like, by the way -- how simple and elegant!) , hoping that I could
manually press the loop buttons and they'd keep in sync - but it ain't
workin.  Thanks. 

--MS_Mac_OE_3090479132_391319_MIME_Part
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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: Syncing EDP with another looper</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<FONT SIZE=3D"4">Does anyone know if there is another (small) looping device =
that I could sync my EDP with other than another EDP? &nbsp;I just got a Hea=
drush, (which I really like, by the way -- how simple and elegant!) , hoping=
 that I could manually press the loop buttons and they'd keep in sync - but =
it ain't workin. &nbsp;Thanks.</FONT>
</BODY>
</HTML>


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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec  6 11:13:36 2001
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To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: OT: Renaissance Guitars
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:35:58 -0500
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Steuart and Rick:

For shame!  For shame!  Every string player knows that without a nut =
proper intonation is impossible!  ;-)
    I'd give my left nut to own one=20

    ** (devil appears) REALLY?=20



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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
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<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><TITLE>RE: OT: Renaissance =
Guitars</TITLE><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>Steuart and Rick:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000></FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><B></B></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B></B></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000>For =
shame!&nbsp;=20
For shame!&nbsp; Every string player knows that without a nut proper =
intonation=20
is impossible!&nbsp; ;-)</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <P><FONT size=3D2>I'd give my left nut to own one </FONT></P>
    <P><FONT size=3D2>** (devil appears) REALLY?</FONT>=20
</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C17E41.CAB94CC0--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec  6 11:33:29 2001
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http://www.magicicada.com/loopers.html

pauls info is not what he sent me in the mail-
but i am working on this at work and left that email at
home...
more to come...send your pics!

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec  6 11:35:10 2001
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From: "Bill Cummings" <billcumm@sprynet.com>
To: "Reality Users Group" <reality_users@lists.best.com>, <QY70@onelist.com>,
        "opcode-users" <opcode-users@topica.com>, <SF-users@onelist.com>,
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Subject: [OT] Today In History (interesting trivia tidbit)
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:07:56 -0500
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December 6, 1877 
First sound recording, "Mary had a Little Lamb," was made by Thomas Edison.


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec  6 12:09:15 2001
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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 10:30:35 -0600
From: jim palmer <jimp@pobox.com>
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luckily there's no shortage of nuts on this list....


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Pokorny" <j.pokorny@worldnet.att.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Renaissance Guitars


Steuart and Rick:

For shame!  For shame!  Every string player knows that without a nut proper intonation is impossible!  ;-)
    I'd give my left nut to own one 

    ** (devil appears) REALLY? 




From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec  6 12:21:31 2001
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Subject: Re: Fw:      Re: [SW] Fw: Buying a Chapman stick
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From: Mark Sottilaro <sine@zerocrossing.net>
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Hey, thanks for fwd'd my post.  I actually followed links posted, and 
found it myself.  You kids are swell.

Mark

On Thursday, December 6, 2001, at 06:28 AM, Daniel wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Virna Splendore" <splendore@GALACTICA.IT>
> To: <STICKWIRE-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 1:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [SW] Fw: Buying a Chapman stick
>
>
>>>> Hey,
>>>>
>>>> One of my best friends/band members is going to take the plunge into
> the
>>> world
>>>> of the Chapman Stick.  Any advise?  Would there be problems with a 
>>>> used
>>>> instrument?  Are they impossible to set up?  She's also a woman, and
> has
>>>> smaller hands than most men, but she has no problems getting around 
>>>> on
> a
>>>> classical guitar.  Could this be an issue?  She also is looking for
>>> someone to
>>>> give her lessons in the SF bay area.  Her email is: 
>>>> schenk@psy.ucsf.edu
>>>>
>>>> Mark Sottilaro
>>
>> Hi Mark,
>>
>> I am Virna ... woman stick player with small hands :-)))
>>
>> I tryed to wrote a message to your friend but it came back to me has
>> Undeliverable Mail...  so could you tell her to contact me for any
> question
>> or tell me another email address?
>>
>> thanks
>> Ciao
>> Virna
>

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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 08:47:34 -0800
Subject: Re: Syncing EDP with another looper
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--Apple-Mail-1--714716788
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Well, the cheapest route would probably to try and hunt down a used=20
JamMan.  I found it's MIDI synch to work reasonably well.  Kind of=20
small, but still a shallow single rack mount.  Then there's the=20
Repeater.  An amazing device, but it's a two rack mount shallow=20
chassis.  those are the smallest synchable devices I can think of.

Mark

On Thursday, December 6, 2001, at 07:25 AM, Steve Sandberg wrote:

> Does anyone know if there is another (small) looping device that I=20
> could sync my EDP with other than another EDP? =A0I just got a =
Headrush,=20
> (which I really like, by the way -- how simple and elegant!) , hoping=20=

> that I could manually press the loop buttons and they'd keep in sync -=20=

> but it ain't workin. =A0Thanks.

--Apple-Mail-1--714716788
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Well, the cheapest route would probably to try and hunt down a used
JamMan.  I found it's MIDI synch to work reasonably well.  Kind of
small, but still a shallow single rack mount.  Then there's the
Repeater.  An amazing device, but it's a two rack mount shallow
chassis.  those are the smallest synchable devices I can think of.


Mark


On Thursday, December 6, 2001, at 07:25 AM, Steve Sandberg wrote:


<excerpt><bigger><bigger>Does anyone know if there is another (small)
looping device that I could sync my EDP with other than another EDP?
=A0I just got a Headrush, (which I really like, by the way -- how simple
and elegant!) , hoping that I could manually press the loop buttons
and they'd keep in sync - but it ain't workin. =
=A0Thanks.</bigger></bigger></excerpt>=

--Apple-Mail-1--714716788--

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From: jim palmer <jimp@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Regulator mod for edp
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thanks a bunch.
anybody who says tech support for the edp is bad must just not be trying...


> Yes, they are a bit flimsy. I do two things to these guys:-
> 1. Solder the legs above the PCB as well as below, where they bend over;
> this makes them much more robust.
> 2. Put some hot-glue on the plastic base, down to the PCB, to further
> stop them moving.
> Out of the 800 or so EDPs we've made, none have had a problem with this
> regulator, although we've had a few accidents in-house before they are
> tested; operators snapping them clean off the board.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jim palmer [mailto:jimp@pobox.com]
> Sent: 05 December 2001 23:37
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: Regulator mod for edp
> 
> 
> i just put in the new lower heat regulator and i am a bit worried about
> something.
> the leads on this thing are pretty small and it doesn't seem to mount
> flush with the
> pc board.  is this going to cause trouble when the unit is manhandled?
> (by roadies after i become world-famous, for now i will be taking care
> of the abuse...)
> 
> is there a better way to mount this thing?
> 
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec  6 13:12:20 2001
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Subject: Looper Gear Gallery
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ok i updated the final version of the gear gallery

submit soon!
http://www.magicicada.com/loopers.html

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec  6 13:48:37 2001
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In case anyone's interested, Full Compass's current catalogue indicates
they're blowing out 5 Repeaters at $499.00 ea.  I'm not in the market
myself, but if I'm recalling correctly this is a good price.
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec  6 14:01:19 2001
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Looks cool- I will try to submit a pic soon- Paul's rig is very cool- but is
"Korg PDS 8000" correct? DigiTech I thought- and it must be in the back cuz
I don't see it-

Cliff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher White" <magicicada@charter.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 9:39 AM
Subject: Looper Gear Gallery


> ok i updated the final version of the gear gallery
>
> submit soon!
> http://www.magicicada.com/loopers.html
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec  6 15:13:49 2001
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Subject: Fw: [SW] Fw: Buying a Chapman stick
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Veda, Qua" <qua.veda@intel.com>
To: <daniel_c@VTR.NET>
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 11:42 AM
Subject: RE: [SW] Fw: Buying a Chapman stick


> As a new player, the Stick being my first musical instrument, I can offer
> some of my experience.
> I bought a used Grand from someone who advertised on Sticknews.com. It
> appeared to be in very good condition.  I took it to a local guitar shop
for
> new strings and cleaning etc. But they were not familiar with the
subtleties
> of optimum set up.  So I ended up sending to Stick Enterprises so I'd be
> confident of that the instrument was in the best shape possible. They did
> some fretwork, and proper 6+6 setup.  I strongly recommend obtaining a
used
> instrument from SE, or finding a used one and sending to them if you have
> any doubt about its condition.
>
> It takes some hands-on experience to build confidence with your own truss
> rod adjustments, but other than that, the Stick requires no tweeking that
I
> can think of.
>
> Your friend is fortunate that Bob Culbertson is located in San Jose (I
> think) so she could possibly contact him for some lessons.  I've found his
> video to be the best way for me to get started.
>
> Its an amazing instrument, but you need to give it some time, and be
> patient.
>
> have fun!!
> -Qua
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel [mailto:daniel_c@VTR.NET]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 10:19 PM
> To: STICKWIRE-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
> Subject: [SW] Fw: Buying a Chapman stick
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Sottilaro" <sine@zerocrossing.net>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 7:42 PM
> Subject: OT: Buying a Chapman stick
>
>
> > Hey,
> >
> > One of my best friends/band members is going to take the plunge into the
> world
> > of the Chapman Stick.  Any advise?  Would there be problems with a used
> > instrument?  Are they impossible to set up?  She's also a woman, and has
> > smaller hands than most men, but she has no problems getting around on a
> > classical guitar.  Could this be an issue?  She also is looking for
> someone to
> > give her lessons in the SF bay area.  Her email is: schenk@psy.ucsf.edu
> >
> > Mark Sottilaro
> >

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec  6 15:14:35 2001
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>Every tool can be a toy, if you hold it right.
>
>Mark

double amen!! i studied with the engineers in uni, and the mascot was this giant 300 lb wrench called 'THE TOOL'. i remember worshipping it at a bizarre frosh initiation involving supersoakers with purple dye ammo and a lot of chains and handcuffs. its classic, boys with toys. its just, we like to romanticize it.

besides, on breath vs machinery, its very tricky stuff. you know how people disappear into the matrix.

one minute you are SINGING, BREATHING, JUMPinG UP MOUNTAINS. then you sit down at the puter to create some loops.... time passes... Machine Lord woos you with features, plugins. 

next thing you awake, you are writing a vocal formant synthesizer and youve forgotten how to SING, you are JUMPING UP MOUNTAINS in Quake and, in a frantic moment of clarity, you wire up lung capacity sensors to your monitor dimmer so that the screen fades whenever you stop breathing-- cuz you know its too late. You've been eaten. Know what i mean?

the secret is extraction. the red pill. something im quite expert at. 

bumbling,
yon

> In a message dated 12/4/2001 12:03:49 PM, swirlee@angelfire.com writes:
>
>> for now, i would hold onto my cash, not be enticed by the toys, and 
>> play
>> with myself instead.
> these are tools, i think, not toys..... though its clear that the 
> boundary
> between the two is easily blurred.....
> anyway, i'm getting a very positive feedback from hardware looping, 
> still.
>
>> channel that energy into breath and learning, where
>> you know it'll be wise. that's what im doing.
> nice suggestion!
> i try to breathe and learn *while* looping, rather than 'taking a 
> break' to
> do so.
> best,
> dt / splattercell
>




Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec  6 15:19:52 2001
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hehe 
yeh i forgot the name of it so i made something up
i have paul's real info at home

On Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:24:40 -0800
 "Clifford@BienAppraisers" <res0koq3@verizon.net> wrote:
> Looks cool- I will try to submit a pic soon- Paul's rig
> is very cool- but is
> "Korg PDS 8000" correct? DigiTech I thought- and it must
> be in the back cuz
> I don't see it-
> 
> Cliff
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher White" <magicicada@charter.net>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 9:39 AM
> Subject: Looper Gear Gallery
> 
> 
> > ok i updated the final version of the gear gallery
> >
> > submit soon!
> > http://www.magicicada.com/loopers.html
> >
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec  6 16:05:20 2001
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don't forget to give proper homage to the mighty vortex...



> hehe 
> yeh i forgot the name of it so i made something up
> i have paul's real info at home
> 
> On Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:24:40 -0800
>  "Clifford@BienAppraisers" <res0koq3@verizon.net> wrote:
> > Looks cool- I will try to submit a pic soon- Paul's rig
> > is very cool- but is
> > "Korg PDS 8000" correct? DigiTech I thought- and it must
> > be in the back cuz
> > I don't see it-
> > 
> > Cliff
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Christopher White" <magicicada@charter.net>
> > To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 9:39 AM
> > Subject: Looper Gear Gallery
> > 
> > 
> > > ok i updated the final version of the gear gallery
> > >
> > > submit soon!
> > > http://www.magicicada.com/loopers.html
> > >
> > 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec  6 17:07:54 2001
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i shall not...
it was just a sketch

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec  6 17:10:34 2001
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	 <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: Looper Gear Gallery
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 16:37:10 -0500 
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also, wasn't there a lexicon device in there?

-----Original Message-----
From: Clifford@BienAppraisers [mailto:res0koq3@verizon.net]
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 10:25 AM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Looper Gear Gallery


Looks cool- I will try to submit a pic soon- Paul's rig is very cool- but is
"Korg PDS 8000" correct? DigiTech I thought- and it must be in the back cuz
I don't see it-

Cliff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher White" <magicicada@charter.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 9:39 AM
Subject: Looper Gear Gallery


> ok i updated the final version of the gear gallery
>
> submit soon!
> http://www.magicicada.com/loopers.html
>


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<P><FONT SIZE=2>also, wasn't there a lexicon device in there?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Clifford@BienAppraisers [<A HREF="mailto:res0koq3@verizon.net">mailto:res0koq3@verizon.net</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 10:25 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: Re: Looper Gear Gallery</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Looks cool- I will try to submit a pic soon- Paul's rig is very cool- but is</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&quot;Korg PDS 8000&quot; correct? DigiTech I thought- and it must be in the back cuz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>I don't see it-</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Cliff</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>----- Original Message -----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: &quot;Christopher White&quot; &lt;magicicada@charter.net&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: &lt;Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 9:39 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: Looper Gear Gallery</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; ok i updated the final version of the gear gallery</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; submit soon!</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; <A HREF="http://www.magicicada.com/loopers.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.magicicada.com/loopers.html</A></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;</FONT>
</P>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec  6 17:55:19 2001
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hahaha 
 Again for the RECORD
IT IS A SKETCH-I JUST THREW SOME WORDS UP TO SEE HOW IT WILL
LOOK- I have Paul's Info at home he wrote it all down for
me-just like you guys should dowhen you send me pics
regards and respect
c.white

n Thu, 6 Dec 2001 16:37:10 -0500 
 "Liebig, Steuart A." <Steuart.Liebig@maritz.com> wrote:
> also, wasn't there a lexicon device in there?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clifford@BienAppraisers
> [mailto:res0koq3@verizon.net]
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 10:25 AM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: Re: Looper Gear Gallery
> 
> 
> Looks cool- I will try to submit a pic soon- Paul's rig
> is very cool- but is
> "Korg PDS 8000" correct? DigiTech I thought- and it must
> be in the back cuz
> I don't see it-
> 
> Cliff
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher White" <magicicada@charter.net>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 9:39 AM
> Subject: Looper Gear Gallery
> 
> 
> > ok i updated the final version of the gear gallery
> >
> > submit soon!
> > http://www.magicicada.com/loopers.html
> >
> 
> 
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec  6 18:59:02 2001
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From: jim palmer <jimp@pobox.com>
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and there's a vortex, too.
right?

> hahaha 
>  Again for the RECORD
> IT IS A SKETCH-I JUST THREW SOME WORDS UP TO SEE HOW IT WILL
> LOOK- I have Paul's Info at home he wrote it all down for
> me-just like you guys should dowhen you send me pics
> regards and respect
> c.white
> 
> n Thu, 6 Dec 2001 16:37:10 -0500 
>  "Liebig, Steuart A." <Steuart.Liebig@maritz.com> wrote:
> > also, wasn't there a lexicon device in there?
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Clifford@BienAppraisers
> > [mailto:res0koq3@verizon.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 10:25 AM
> > To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> > Subject: Re: Looper Gear Gallery
> > 
> > 
> > Looks cool- I will try to submit a pic soon- Paul's rig
> > is very cool- but is
> > "Korg PDS 8000" correct? DigiTech I thought- and it must
> > be in the back cuz
> > I don't see it-
> > 
> > Cliff
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Christopher White" <magicicada@charter.net>
> > To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 9:39 AM
> > Subject: Looper Gear Gallery
> > 
> > 
> > > ok i updated the final version of the gear gallery
> > >
> > > submit soon!
> > > http://www.magicicada.com/loopers.html
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > <font size="1">Confidentiality Warning:  This e-mail
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> > e-mail.   If you have received this e-mail in error,
> > please immediately notify us by return e-mail.  Thank
> > you.
> > 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec  6 20:00:13 2001
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I'll see your amen, and raise you a hallalullia, ma man.  I, for one, find it all to easy to get sucked into the world of THINGS, but I've gotten better in my old age.  If you spend all your time learning software, you really never get intimate with your tools/toys and without that intimacy it is tough to make ART.  I'm really bummed that the
software I've been using (Metro 5) is no longer going to be updated by Cakewalk.  I've been with it since version 3 when it was MIDI only, and now it's not working well on my G4 running OS 9.2.1.  So I guess it's the end of the line, and I'm back to looking for a sequencer/hard disk recorder that will work with OSX.  Looks like Logic 5.  Looks like
my wife will be getting my Korg 1212i/o as well.  What was deluxe, becomes debris....  OK, gotta go, the machine lord beckons...

Mark

Jan Pek wrote:

> >Every tool can be a toy, if you hold it right.
> >
> >Mark
>
> double amen!! i studied with the engineers in uni, and the mascot was this giant 300 lb wrench called 'THE TOOL'. i remember worshipping it at a bizarre frosh initiation involving supersoakers with purple dye ammo and a lot of chains and handcuffs. its classic, boys with toys. its just, we like to romanticize it.
>
> besides, on breath vs machinery, its very tricky stuff. you know how people disappear into the matrix.
>
> one minute you are SINGING, BREATHING, JUMPinG UP MOUNTAINS. then you sit down at the puter to create some loops.... time passes... Machine Lord woos you with features, plugins.
>
> next thing you awake, you are writing a vocal formant synthesizer and youve forgotten how to SING, you are JUMPING UP MOUNTAINS in Quake and, in a frantic moment of clarity, you wire up lung capacity sensors to your monitor dimmer so that the screen fades whenever you stop breathing-- cuz you know its too late. You've been eaten. Know what i mean?
>
> the secret is extraction. the red pill. something im quite expert at.
>
> bumbling,
> yon
>
> > In a message dated 12/4/2001 12:03:49 PM, swirlee@angelfire.com writes:
> >
> >> for now, i would hold onto my cash, not be enticed by the toys, and
> >> play
> >> with myself instead.
> > these are tools, i think, not toys..... though its clear that the
> > boundary
> > between the two is easily blurred.....
> > anyway, i'm getting a very positive feedback from hardware looping,
> > still.
> >
> >> channel that energy into breath and learning, where
> >> you know it'll be wise. that's what im doing.
> > nice suggestion!
> > i try to breathe and learn *while* looping, rather than 'taking a
> > break' to
> > do so.
> > best,
> > dt / splattercell
> >
>
> Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
> http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec  6 20:27:46 2001
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In a message dated 12/7/01 12:24:27 AM, sine@zerocrossing.net writes:

<< So I guess it's the end of the line, and I'm back to looking for a 
sequencer/hard disk recorder that will work with OSX.  Looks like Logic 5.>>

How about Digital Performer and or MOTU's "828"? 

<<Looks like my wife will be getting my Korg 1212i/o as well.  What was 
deluxe, becomes debris....  OK, gotta go, the machine lord beckons... >>

Yea but todays "debris" is still way better than "deluxe" from 10 yrs. ago - 
perspective.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec  6 20:29:54 2001
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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 19:53:32 -0500
Subject: Buying a Chapman stick
From: kenn lowy <klowy@wrinklemuzik.com>
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> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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i bought a used one many, many years ago. it was great. basically, no set u=
p
was required at all. and the chapmans are great people and very helpful. sh=
e
should give them a call because they love to know where the sticks go. i
bought a new one a few years later and still play it. it=B9s a great
instrument!

good luck with it.

klowy
nyc

> Hey,
>=20
> One of my best friends/band members is going to take the plunge into the =
world
> of the Chapman Stick.  Any advise?  Would there be problems with a used
> instrument?  Are they impossible to set up?  She's also a woman, and has
> smaller hands than most men, but she has no problems getting around on a
> classical guitar.  Could this be an issue?  She also is looking for someo=
ne to
> give her lessons in the SF bay area.  Her email is: schenk@psy.ucsf.edu
>=20
> Mark Sottilaro


--B_3090513212_474093
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<HTML>
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<TITLE>Buying a Chapman stick</TITLE>
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<BODY>
<FONT FACE=3D"Verdana">i bought a used one many, many years ago. it was great=
. basically, no set up was required at all. and the chapmans are great peopl=
e and very helpful. she should give them a call because they love to know wh=
ere the sticks go. i bought a new one a few years later and still play it. i=
t&#8217;s a great instrument!<BR>
<BR>
good luck with it.<BR>
<BR>
klowy<BR>
nyc<BR>
</FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"><B><BR>
</B></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Monaco"><TT>Hey,<BR>
<BR>
One of my best friends/band members is going to take the plunge into the wo=
rld<BR>
of the Chapman Stick. &nbsp;Any advise? &nbsp;Would there be problems with =
a used<BR>
instrument? &nbsp;Are they impossible to set up? &nbsp;She's also a woman, =
and has<BR>
smaller hands than most men, but she has no problems getting around on a<BR=
>
classical guitar. &nbsp;Could this be an issue? &nbsp;She also is looking f=
or someone to<BR>
give her lessons in the SF bay area. &nbsp;Her email is: <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000=
FF"><U>schenk@psy.ucsf.edu<BR>
</U></FONT><BR>
Mark Sottilaro</TT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"><BR>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
</BODY>
</HTML>


--B_3090513212_474093--

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matt davignon wrote:

> Field Effects: a night of beauty made by the world
>
> Friday, December 14
>
> Door 8:00 pm, performance 8:30 pm sharp.
>
> $6-10 sliding scale, no one turned away for lack of funds.
>
> ----> Event Description <-----------------------------------------------
>
> The world makes music, remember to listen. The world makes movies,
> remember to look.
>
> Field Effects offers a night of field recording based performance.
>
> Featuring sound artists:
>
> Loren Chasse (SF)
>      http://www.23five.org/lchasse/
> Tape Recorder (Oakland)
>      Matt Davignon's tape-based project, samples available at:
>      http://www.mp3.com/field_recordings/
> Quiet American (SF)
>      http://www.quietamerican.org
>
> And featuring projection by:
>
> Keith Evans (SF) of silt
> Carl Diehl (SF)
>       Kinetic engineer travelling through time with a VCR.
> Richard Holland (Madison, WI)
>      West coast premier of his stunning "tiny movies"
>      http://www.ponderance.org/holland/TinyMoviesMenu.html
>
> Field Effects is a showcase of Bay Area artists interested in framing the
> hidden beauty of the everyday world. Beauty on the surface, awaiting our
> attention. Beauty that must be delicately extracted. And beauty in
> potential, awaiting juxtaposition, collage, repetition and mutilation...

matt,

this sounds like a great evening. wish i could be there. recording it perchance?

lance g.


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec  6 21:18:41 2001
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From: "Paolo Valladolid" <phv40@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Wave Digital's new portable PC
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>From the article at 
http://aes.harmony-central.com/111AES/Content/Wave_Digital/PR/Microwave.html:

"Wave Digital will also offer a custom case for the MicroWave by leading 
case manufacturer, Calzone Case Company....At only the same size of a 
four-space backpack rack, the case will feature a _15-inch flat panel LCD 
display monitor_ mounted in the lid of the case. The MICROWAVE will be 
secured in the case alongside a 75-gig external Firewire hard drive with the 
keyboard and track..."

I can't speak for Wave Digital, but it seems to me that despite their 
President's "looping PC for Mac owners" comment (which btw I think is 
misguided), they are targeting not only electronic musicians but also buyers 
that may want a portable PC for something else but not necessarily need the 
custom case, which adds more than a grand to the price.

Paolo

>As slashdot readers may know this is just a "branded" Cappuchino PC.  It's
>pretty cool, but pretty useless for live performance since it still needs a
>screen, might as well get a mini-laptop.
>
>     Kevin
>
>--
>Unit Circle Media
>http://www.unitcircle.com
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec  7 08:40:24 2001
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From: "Steve Lawson" <steve@steve-lawson.co.uk>
To: "Loop List" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Rick Turner
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Add me to the list of Renassaince bass owners - fretless 5 string - completely lovely instrument. I used it in a trio with
harp and sax not so long ago and it was perfect! Only problem with it is that it's so good, friends keep borrowing it, so I
don't get to have it around all that often. Good thing is, it's being played all the time! I have various session player
buddies who call me up when they hear a track that it 'has' to be on...

..on top of that, Rick is one of the coolest and friendliest people in the luthiery business. On my first trip to NAMM, Rick,
along with Joe Zon, spent ages sorting out a trip for me (I was on a very low budget) trying to find people to give me lifts
to NorCal from LA, and gave me a place to stay in Santa Cruz (my first visit to the looping capital of the world :o) - nice
bloke making great guitars - sounds like a fine combination to me! (oh, and BTW, anyone interested in grass roots music
education should check out the work being done by Rick's wife Jessica, who works to get guitars into schools, provide low
cost tuition and generally raise the profile of music in schools where it has been sidelined - a really really worthwhile
project.

cheers

Steve
www.steve-lawson.co.uk


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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 10:00:49 EST
Subject: Re: tools/toys --- breathe & learn
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sine@zerocrossing.net writes:

>Every tool can be a toy, if you hold it right.
ergo:
every toy can be a tool, if ya hold it wrong?
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec  7 12:36:01 2001
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Actually, the quote is a perversion of a line from an Ani DeFranko 
song.  "Every tool is a weapon if you hold it right."  I don't like the 
weapon thing, though.

Mark

On Friday, December 7, 2001, at 07:00 AM, Hedewa7@aol.com wrote:

> sine@zerocrossing.net writes:
>
>> Every tool can be a toy, if you hold it right.
> ergo:
> every toy can be a tool, if ya hold it wrong?
> dt / splattercell
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec  7 12:45:15 2001
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Exactly.  Haven't we all tried to hang a picture with a Fisher Price 
Schoolbus?

Mark

On Friday, December 7, 2001, at 07:00 AM, Hedewa7@aol.com wrote:

> sine@zerocrossing.net writes:
>
>> Every tool can be a toy, if you hold it right.
> ergo:
> every toy can be a tool, if ya hold it wrong?
> dt / splattercell
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec  7 13:42:49 2001
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From: "Cataldo De Palma" <cataldo.depalma@inwind.it>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: R: Looking for EDP users!
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 19:06:15 +0100
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Dear Scott Johnson
I'm actually deeply fond of this tool which I use together with my paradis
guitar.
I just read your email and I'm looking forward to hearing more about this
project.
Aldo De Palma

-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: Scott Johnson [mailto:sjohnson@gibson.com]
Inviato: lunedė 29 ottobre 2001 16.18
A: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Oggetto: Looking for EDP users!


I'm looking to talk with any loopers who are currently using the
Oberheim/Gibson Echoplex.  If you use this tool in your productions,
please contact me via email so we can talk about an upcoming project!

R. Scott Johnson
Product Specialist
Gibson Strings & Accessories
1150 Bowes Rd.
Elgin, IL  60123  USA
Vox: 847.741.7315  ext. 209
Fax: 847.741.4644
Email: sjohnson@gibson.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec  7 17:11:48 2001
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Lance Glover said something like:

>Sounds like a great event! Wish I could be there. Recording it, perchance?

We'll be trying to record it. So far, my experience with trying to record 
live sets is that something always goes wrong. Somebody forgets, or the 
battery dies, or it turns out that there's no equipment/hookup to record it 
with.

However the other musicians that are playing that night are the kind that 
probably don't forget to hit the "record" button that often. I just hope we 
can get a direct signal. From what I remember, the space is kind of boomy.

Matt


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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec  8 03:27:13 2001
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Subject: Re: R: Looking for EDP users!
From: todd reynolds <toddreynolds@rcn.com>
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On 12/7/01 1:06 PM, "Cataldo De Palma" <cataldo.depalma@inwind.it> wrote:

Todd Reynolds
42-09 47th Ave 1C
Sunnyside, NY  11104
 
Ph.    718 392-3773
Mob.   917 576-6166
Fax    419 781-5502
 
http://www.toddreynolds.com
http://www.ethelcentral.com

todd@toddreynolds.com>

 
> I'm looking to talk with any loopers who are currently using the
> Oberheim/Gibson Echoplex.  If you use this tool in your productions,
> please contact me via email so we can talk about an upcoming project!
> 
> R. Scott Johnson
> Product Specialist
> Gibson Strings & Accessories
> 1150 Bowes Rd.
> Elgin, IL  60123  USA
> Vox: 847.741.7315  ext. 209
> Fax: 847.741.4644
> Email: sjohnson@gibson.com
> 

-- 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec  8 16:37:26 2001
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From: "Tim Goodwin" <deepbass@earthlink.net>
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Subject: sequencer software
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 13:00:58 -0800
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Hi Looper People,

I am doing some work with complex rhythm permutations and I'm looking for
the perfect software to help me compose large numbers of MIDI files.  I have
been experimenting with different MIDI drum sequencers with some
disappointing results.  The best software I found seems to be a something
called KeyKit.  It is a graphical programming language that allows you to
create custom consoles for unique MIDI applications.  But the program seems
to be a bit unstable and requires quite a bit of knowledge of its own
programming language to debug.

Anyway, I have found that I need certain features in a program:

(1) A matrix interface to select note on/off values for rhythmic pieces.
Ideally, the subdivisions are customizable to at least 64 and a time
signature select function would change the column label of each step to
match the beat reference.

(2) I would also like to apply specific patterns to each track with a single
command (every beat, every 3, every 1/2 beat, etc.) as well as the ability
to cut and paste patterns to the grid.

(3) The ability to customize the single command patterns that get applied to
the tracks of the grid would be especially ideal.

(4) Notate the final result with the option to select a separate staff for
each instrument.

(5) Ability to save the grid and notation as image files.

(6) Save the final sequence as a MIDI file.

Does anything like this exist?

Thanks,

Tim

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Hello?

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec  9 17:36:52 2001
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From: "Bill Fox" <billfox@fast.net>
To: "emusic-wdiy Mailing List" <emusic-wdiy@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: EMUSIC Playlist #246
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 17:05:32 -0500
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[ Best viewed using a fixed spacing font. ]

EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show, airs each Thursday
at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem, PA and 93.9 FM in
Easton, PA and Phillipsburg, NJ.

                    Show #246                    December 6, 2001.


RECAP:
======================= ======================== ==============================
On this show, I began a month-long focus on Orbital Decay, a band from near-by
Quakertown.  Influenced by the likes of Tangerine Dream, Klaus Shulze, and Pink
Floyd, Orbital Decay makes electronic space music with the improvisational and
energy of fusion styles from the 70's.  As a special holiday treat, Orbital
Decay will perform a live, in-studio, on-air concert during the December 27th
program.  The Featured CD at Midnight was the band's self released CDR "Drastic
Park."

The vinyl show starter, a new feature of the show leftover from WDIY's Salute
to Records, was by Tim Blake.

Orbital Decay  http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic/playlists/2001/focus01.html#dec


PLAYLIST:

ARTIST                  TRACK                    ALBUM (label)
======================= ======================== ==============================
11:04 pm
Tim Blake               Last Ride of the Boogie  Crystal Machine (EGG)
                          Child
VA [Dweller at the      Alpha Mastered           Track Across the Universe
  Threshold]                                       (none)
VA [Free System         Pharos                   Beyond Me (Neu Harmony)
  Projekt]
Robert Rich             Nesting in Cliffside     Bestiary (Relapse/Release)
Kubusschnitt            Elemental                The Singularity (Neu Harmony)
Cyber Zen Sound Engine  Whispering Across        The Intercepted Transmissions
  and Matt Borghi         Oceans                   (N-Light-N)

12:00 am
vidnaObmana             Mind Tunnel              Tremor (Relapse/Release)
Orbital Decay           6 of 3                   Drastic Park (none)
Orbital Decay           Drastic Park             Drastic Park (none)
Orbital Decay           "Q" Live                 Drastic Park (none)
Free System Projekt     Ibis Flight *            Okefenokee Dreams (Groove)
  and Dave Brewer

1:00 am

 * = exerpt
VA = Various Artists (compilation)


NEXT SHOW:
On the next EMUSIC, I'll continue the month-long focus on <a
href="focus01.html#dec">Orbital Decay</a>.  The
Featured CD at Midnight will be the band's "Re-Entry" CDR.

Next week's vinyl show starter will be by Don Slepian.

Bill        billfox@fast.net           http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic
===============================================================================
Host of EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show.  Thursdays at
11 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem and 93.9 FM in Easton and
Phillipsburg.  Email me if you wish to submit music for airplay consideration.
Radio Station Home Page: http://wdiyfm.org
Personal site: http://www.users.fast.net/~billfox
To subscribe to the EMUSIC on WDIY list, go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/emusic-wdiy and click on [Join This Group!]

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec  9 17:53:38 2001
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 14:22:41 -0800
Subject: boomerang for sale
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hey folks,

i've got a boomerang (not the current 24bit, a/b version tho) in perfect
condition. $300 including insured, ground shipping in the continental us.
you can pmail me at tony-moore@juno.com.

thanks!

tony

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec  9 18:45:22 2001
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Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 15:12:48 -0800
From: Tim Thompson <tjt@nosuch.com>
Subject: RE: sequencer software
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> I am doing some work with complex rhythm permutations and I'm looking for
> the perfect software to help me compose large numbers of MIDI files.  I
have
> been experimenting with different MIDI drum sequencers with some
> disappointing results.  The best software I found seems to be a something
> called KeyKit.  It is a graphical programming language that allows you to
> create custom consoles for unique MIDI applications.  But the program
seems
> to be a bit unstable and requires quite a bit of knowledge of its own
> programming language to debug.

If you're talking about the Mac version of KeyKit, I can't help much,
but if you're talking about the PC (Windows) version, I can probably
help solve any stability problems you're seeing.  Send me email with
details of the problems you're having.

The Kboom tool in KeyKit is very close to what you're describing.
I can help modify it for some of the things you mentioned
(e.g. it has menu items for 'every other beat' and some other
patterns, and I can show you how to extend it in that area).

Keykit doesn't do notation, though, only piano-roll
and matrix-like things.

    ...Tim...

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec  9 21:12:11 2001
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Subject: Electrix Repeater. First Impressions.
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 20:56:37 -0500
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Yowza! This is one amazing device. I had zero problems getting levels =
right (although I'm fronting it with a BlueMax compressor). Creating =
multi-track loops is a snap. The Digitech FS300 footswitch is a little =
cumbersome to get used to compared to te EDP foot pedal but it's usable.

Copying loops to new locations whether internally or on a memory card is =
also easy. I'm definitely planning on getting a MIDI pedal for =
controlling the Repeater in the near future. Plus more memory cards. =
It's sooooo nice to be able to save hours of hard work building up =
loops.

I can see why David Torn stated in (I believe) his Electronic Musician =
interview that this was going to be his main looper .

An excellent, excellent job, Electrix!

Regards, Paul

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yowza! This is one amazing device. I =
had zero=20
problems getting levels&nbsp;right (although I'm fronting it with a =
BlueMax=20
compressor). Creating multi-track loops is a snap. The Digitech FS300 =
footswitch=20
is a little cumbersome to get used to compared to te EDP foot pedal but =
it's=20
usable.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Copying loops to new locations whether =
internally=20
or on a memory card is also easy. I'm definitely planning on getting a =
MIDI=20
pedal for controlling the Repeater in the near future. Plus more memory =
cards.=20
It's sooooo nice to be able to save hours of hard work building up=20
loops.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I can see why David Torn stated in (I =
believe) his=20
Electronic Musician interview that this was going to be his main looper=20
.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>An excellent, excellent job, =
Electrix!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Regards, =
Paul</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 10 00:28:09 2001
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From: "Kevin Goldsmith" <kevin@unitcircle.com>
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References: <LAW2-F88bUcOV1EetVo0000624e@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Wave Digital's new portable PC
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 20:55:09 -0800
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How is that different from a laptop, which is essentially a non upgradable
PC in a case with a monitor?  Except of course that a laptop is smaller and
cheaper.

    Kevin

Unit Circle Media
http://www.unitcircle.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paolo Valladolid" <phv40@hotmail.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: Wave Digital's new portable PC


> >From the article at
>
http://aes.harmony-central.com/111AES/Content/Wave_Digital/PR/Microwave.html
:
>
> "Wave Digital will also offer a custom case for the MicroWave by leading
> case manufacturer, Calzone Case Company....At only the same size of a
> four-space backpack rack, the case will feature a _15-inch flat panel LCD
> display monitor_ mounted in the lid of the case. The MICROWAVE will be
> secured in the case alongside a 75-gig external Firewire hard drive with
the
> keyboard and track..."
>
> I can't speak for Wave Digital, but it seems to me that despite their
> President's "looping PC for Mac owners" comment (which btw I think is
> misguided), they are targeting not only electronic musicians but also
buyers
> that may want a portable PC for something else but not necessarily need
the
> custom case, which adds more than a grand to the price.
>
> Paolo
>
> >As slashdot readers may know this is just a "branded" Cappuchino PC.
It's
> >pretty cool, but pretty useless for live performance since it still needs
a
> >screen, might as well get a mini-laptop.
> >
> >     Kevin
> >
> >--
> >Unit Circle Media
> >http://www.unitcircle.com
> >
> >
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 10 01:08:03 2001
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: "Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T)" <emile@foryourhead.com>
Subject: Yesterday's deluxe eas  Re: take the red pill
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At 7:49 PM -0500 12/6/01, PMimlitsch@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 12/7/01 12:24:27 AM, sine@zerocrossing.net writes:
>
><< So I guess it's the end of the line, and I'm back to looking for a
>sequencer/hard disk recorder that will work with OSX.  Looks like Logic 5.>>
>
>How about Digital Performer and or MOTU's "828"?
>
><<Looks like my wife will be getting my Korg 1212i/o as well.  What was
>deluxe, becomes debris....  OK, gotta go, the machine lord beckons... >>
>
>Yea but todays "debris" is still way better than "deluxe" from 10 yrs. ago -
>perspective.

Although I am listening with some pleasure to a recent recording that 
made heavy use of my 2 TX 7's (Vintage 1986 or so), my JamMan (quite 
a few years old itself),and my Atari running KCS (which I last 
updated in 1994).

Admittedly, I haven't used the TX's much since I got a Nord Modular-:)
-- 

"Freedom is a scary thing ---  Not many people really want it"
      --  Laurie Anderson

Visit "Before the Fall -- Images of the World Trade Center" at 
http://www.foryourhead.com

		Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D.
Video Producer			Image Processing Specialist
Video for your HEAD!			Boris FX
http://www.foryourhead.com		http://www.borisfx.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 10 02:31:19 2001
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Subject: dc area loopers?
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just curious. i'm in gaithersburg (MD)

Jon

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 10 11:02:34 2001
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:34:24 -0300
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Subject: Re: tools/toys --- breathe & learn
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Mark:
>Actually, the quote is a perversion of a line from an Ani DeFranko 
>song.  "Every tool is a weapon if you hold it right."  I don't like 
>the weapon thing, though.

oh, I thought the original was:
"Every tool is an (inspiring) toy if you hold it wrong (enough)."
...which would fit most to this bunch of people, no?

>>sine@zerocrossing.net writes:
>>
>>>Every tool can be a toy, if you hold it right.
>>ergo:
>>every toy can be a tool, if ya hold it wrong?
>>dt / splattercell


-- 


          ---> http://Matthias.Grob.org

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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:34:08 -0300
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From: Matthias Grob <matthias@grob.org>
Subject: Re: Syncing EDP with another looper
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<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 }
 --></style><title>Re: Syncing EDP with another
looper</title></head><body>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font size="+1">Does anyone know if there
is another (small) looping device that I could sync my EDP with other
than another EDP? &nbsp;I just got a Headrush, (which I really like,
by the way -- how simple and elegant!) , hoping that I could manually
press the loop buttons and they'd keep in sync - but it ain't workin.
&nbsp;Thanks.</font></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>If you are smart enough to push out any signal out of your box
that pulses in loop time (like the lead that feeds a LED that blinks
at loop start), then you can use this to sync the EDP through the
BeatSync input.</div>
<div>For the Vortex we have a solution.</div>
<div>If someone sends me a Headrush, I most probably find one, too
:-)</div>
<x-sigsep><pre>-- 
</pre></x-sigsep>
<div><br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ---&gt;
http://Matthias.Grob.org</div>
</body>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 10 13:06:10 2001
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Subject: EDP auction (no reserve)
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:26:52 -0800
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Re: Syncing EDP with another
looperhttp://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1495500530

Will miss it, but have enough loopage with RPTR and DL-4.

NG


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<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=3D1495=
500530">http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=3D1495=
500530</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<P><SPAN class=3D861152417-10122001><FONT size=3D2>Will miss it, but =
have enough=20
loopage with RPTR and DL-4.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=3D861152417-10122001><FONT=20
size=3D2>NG</FONT></SPAN></P></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 10 13:56:23 2001
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Hi Tim, I am indeed using the PC version.  I will send you a more detailed
description of the program quirks via personal email in the next day or so.
I also definitely want to customize the Kboom tool.  I am also wondering how
powerful the KeyKit language is for doing calculations.  Do you know if it's
possible to write algorhythms/formulas that will calculate and generate
numerous MIDI files automatically?  Or do I have to either select a function
under the track menu in Kboom or manually click each box on the grid to
specify on notes and then grab the tracks with the group tool to output MIDI
files?  I can get into more detail if you wish, but suffice to say that I
need to generate a *few thousand* rhythm loops.  If KeyKit can do this with
the right code that would be great.  If not, I need to ask my computer whiz
friend to program something in C++ to write MIDI files.  What do you think?

--
Tim



-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Thompson [mailto:tjt@nosuch.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 3:13 PM
To: 'Tim Goodwin'
Cc: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: RE: sequencer software

If you're talking about the Mac version of KeyKit, I can't help much,
but if you're talking about the PC (Windows) version, I can probably
help solve any stability problems you're seeing.  Send me email with
details of the problems you're having.

The Kboom tool in KeyKit is very close to what you're describing.
I can help modify it for some of the things you mentioned
(e.g. it has menu items for 'every other beat' and some other
patterns, and I can show you how to extend it in that area).

Keykit doesn't do notation, though, only piano-roll
and matrix-like things.

    ...Tim...

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 10 16:00:09 2001
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 15:27:40 EST
Subject: honey barbara I-10 & w. ave.
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what a fantastic cd!....well written, played and produced, more loops than 
one could shake a stick at.....many thanks to mr. sidlo and co.....some 
strange stuff goin on down in san antonio, a hot-bed of 
loopdom.....cowboys/loops, go figure....:)m

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 10 16:00:36 2001
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Loopy-ones!

   I have to do some holiday belt tightening, so some really cool gear has to be passed on to one or more of you lucky folks!  Check it out!

MCI Guitorgan - Mid-70's - Sunburst ES-335 style -"Drawbars" on the top horn, push switches on the bottom, play guitar and organ at the same time!  Frets are wired with 6 contacts each which output through wiring in the guitar to a floor module on the floor - the earliest guitar synth!  Rare and super cool - sounds like a hammond or combo organ - Recently overhauled and serviced by EARS in NYC- $1000 + shipping
Includes case, service specs, stereo guitar output cord, and module . . .

Starfield Guitar and Bass Doubleneck - Perfect for looping!!  1977 SG knockoff, EBO style bass on top, SG style guitar on bottom, 3 way toggle for playing only bass, only guitar, or both at the same time - pics available on request - plush red velvet lined case included (These cases make AWESOME pedalboards!) $500

Morley volume pedal with built in old school MXR Distortion + and Phase 90!!!!!  This was constructed by a guy in San Fran in the 70's.  On either sides of the volume pedal, there is a toggle switch and knobs, one for the phaser speed on the right, and two for the distortion amount and volume on the left.  Takes a male 9 volt adapter, or get tricky and wire in a battery!  This is an old friend, but taking up a little too much space in my already clogged system - yours for $200 + Shipping

Lot of Digitech PDS delay/looper pedals - you know them, you love them, here they are all together - one 1 second one, one 2 second one, and the guts to a presently not working 8 second echo plus (if you're a wiz, you can use its chips for the other ones and get a functioning 8 second echo + out of it all) Each pedal has one "delay-on" toggle and one "hold" toggle, which will loop whatever was previously delaying - then drop back into delay and overdub, hit hold and hear both - so easy, so sweet - get it all for $150 + shipping

Alesis HR 16 Drum machine - (as heard on Ween's Pure Guava and The Pod) - sweet and simple to program, I don't have the adapter, but one can be purchased at Guitar Center (ask for the ones that work for the reissue Digitech Whammy I) - check out the review here:

http://formen.ign.com/news/32290.html

Yours for $100

Possibly willing to trade any or all for any or all of the following items:

Roland Handsonic
Technics 1200 mkII's
Boss SP-202 Dr. Sample
Midi Bass Pedals
Roland Jupiter 8
Sherman Filterbank
Electric Upright Bass
Smartlite Strat
A decent reverb/delay box

   In case you don't know, a person tried to use this list to scam us into Western Unioning cash for some dj-gear that didn't exist.  I really hope this doesn't make us all wary of long time list subscribers trying to keep their tools "in the looping family".  If anyone needs to verify my online buying/selling history, check the feedback forum on ebay for: 

a.goldsmith@opinionaccess.com

This is also where you can email me with any questions about this stuff . . . I live in Astoria, Queens, NYC so if anyone wants to save shipping costs and come on by, that'd be totally cool, but hurry!  I could see this stuff going quick.  Happy holi days . . .

                aaroneous




From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 10 16:45:12 2001
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leeme second this recommendation...

i had forgotten that i registered for this  CD, online many moons ago,
and all the 'graphics oriented' mailings were getting scammed by my wife
as soon as it hit the door, into the depths of her design studio.

Last week she tells me a "font company" sent  her this really great music
CD...
she was pretty dour when she found out that they indeed sent it to ME, and not
her.

but we BOTH really dig it, lotsa airplay in our household.

-jas
Albuquerque

Nemoguitt@aol.com wrote:

> what a fantastic cd!....well written, played and produced, more loops than
> one could shake a stick at.....many thanks to mr. sidlo and co.....some
> strange stuff goin on down in san antonio, a hot-bed of
> loopdom.....cowboys/loops, go figure....:)m

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 10 17:18:36 2001
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interview and info on (i think) their first album at:

http://www.emigre.com/CMHB.html

if anyone has a review on this one i would be interested to hear it...

-j

-- 





-----

Jeff Blanding
jeff@modaldub.net
http://www.modaldub.net

-----

"Freedom is a scary thing - not many people really want it."
  - Laurie Anderson

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 10 19:20:21 2001
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For those interested in a second hand Cycloops unit,

You can just make a bid at Ebay :
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1493657602

The first price is only fixed at Ģ90, and nobody has bid yet !

Hurry up ! The auction will be closed on 12-Dec-01 13:59:23 GMT

Good luck,
Emmanuel

Me ? No need, I already got some units lent for free at home ...


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 10 19:35:24 2001
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http://www.nemesysmusic.com/support/faq.html#q10

BTW, I don't own Gigasampler...

Paolo

>How is that different from a laptop, which is essentially a non upgradable
>PC in a case with a monitor?  Except of course that a laptop is smaller and
>cheaper.
>
>     Kevin
>
>Unit Circle Media
>http://www.unitcircle.com
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Paolo Valladolid" <phv40@hotmail.com>
>To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
>Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 5:44 PM
>Subject: Re: Wave Digital's new portable PC
>
>
> > >From the article at
> >
>http://aes.harmony-central.com/111AES/Content/Wave_Digital/PR/Microwave.html
>:
> >
> > "Wave Digital will also offer a custom case for the MicroWave by leading
> > case manufacturer, Calzone Case Company....At only the same size of a
> > four-space backpack rack, the case will feature a _15-inch flat panel 
>LCD
> > display monitor_ mounted in the lid of the case. The MICROWAVE will be
> > secured in the case alongside a 75-gig external Firewire hard drive with
>the
> > keyboard and track..."
> >
> > I can't speak for Wave Digital, but it seems to me that despite their
> > President's "looping PC for Mac owners" comment (which btw I think is
> > misguided), they are targeting not only electronic musicians but also
>buyers
> > that may want a portable PC for something else but not necessarily need
>the
> > custom case, which adds more than a grand to the price.
> >
> > Paolo
> >
> > >As slashdot readers may know this is just a "branded" Cappuchino PC.
>It's
> > >pretty cool, but pretty useless for live performance since it still 
>needs
>a
> > >screen, might as well get a mini-laptop.
> > >
> > >     Kevin
> > >
> > >--
> > >Unit Circle Media
> > >http://www.unitcircle.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at 
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >
> >
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 10 19:35:53 2001
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they do really nice fonts as well.

Nemoguitt@aol.com wrote:

> what a fantastic cd!....well written, played and produced, more loops than
> one could shake a stick at.....many thanks to mr. sidlo and co.....some
> strange stuff goin on down in san antonio, a hot-bed of
> loopdom.....cowboys/loops, go figure....:)m

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 10 20:19:51 2001
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:57:39 -0800
Subject: Re: Wave Digital's new portable PC
From: Kevin Goldsmith <kevin@unitcircle.com>
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Good point, but in answer to that question in the FAQ:

Notebook\laptop computers are generally not recommended for running the
GigaSampler. THEY TEND TO PERFORM SLOWER THAN THEIR DESKTOP COUNTERPARTS OF
THE SAME ADVERTISED SPEED. THE MINIATURIZATION PLAYS A PART IN SLOWING
THINGS DOWN. Due to lack of readily available PCMCIA soundcards, the audio
output on laptop computers doesnđt compare either. The power management will
also cause major problems.

I added the caps for emphasis...  The PCMCIA argument is neither here nor
there due to the RMS and MOTU interfaces (and soon Firewire Dig001).

I checked the WaveDigital website for info on their processor, it lists
"Intel Pentium III Processor in FCPGA package."  I don't know if that is one
of the low power processors or not, which could definitely make a
difference...

BTW, I'm not arguing just for the sake of arguing, this is also an internal
debate with my inner geek who keeps repeating the mantra "but it's SOOO
COOOL!"

    Kevin

On 12/10/01 4:01 PM, "Paolo Valladolid" <phv40@hotmail.com> wrote:

> http://www.nemesysmusic.com/support/faq.html#q10
> 
> BTW, I don't own Gigasampler...
> 
> Paolo
> 
>> How is that different from a laptop, which is essentially a non upgradable
>> PC in a case with a monitor?  Except of course that a laptop is smaller and
>> cheaper.
>> 
>>     Kevin
>> 
>> Unit Circle Media
>> http://www.unitcircle.com
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Paolo Valladolid" <phv40@hotmail.com>
>> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 5:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: Wave Digital's new portable PC
>> 
>> 
>>>> From the article at
>>> 
>> http://aes.harmony-central.com/111AES/Content/Wave_Digital/PR/Microwave.html
>> :
>>> 
>>> "Wave Digital will also offer a custom case for the MicroWave by leading
>>> case manufacturer, Calzone Case Company....At only the same size of a
>>> four-space backpack rack, the case will feature a _15-inch flat panel
>> LCD
>>> display monitor_ mounted in the lid of the case. The MICROWAVE will be
>>> secured in the case alongside a 75-gig external Firewire hard drive with
>> the
>>> keyboard and track..."
>>> 
>>> I can't speak for Wave Digital, but it seems to me that despite their
>>> President's "looping PC for Mac owners" comment (which btw I think is
>>> misguided), they are targeting not only electronic musicians but also
>> buyers
>>> that may want a portable PC for something else but not necessarily need
>> the
>>> custom case, which adds more than a grand to the price.
>>> 
>>> Paolo
>>> 
>>>> As slashdot readers may know this is just a "branded" Cappuchino PC.
>> It's
>>>> pretty cool, but pretty useless for live performance since it still
>> needs
>> a
>>>> screen, might as well get a mini-laptop.
>>>> 
>>>>     Kevin
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Unit Circle Media
>>>> http://www.unitcircle.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> 
> 

-- 
Unit Circle Media
http://www.unitcircle.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 10 20:40:41 2001
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Sounds like a familiar argument. I have lost it myself a few times (like 
when I bought a Handsonic on impulse). :)

I still use my lowly DL4 for looping right now.  I think for me the hardware 
looper plus a phrase sampler would be a more reliable solution as an upgrade 
over the DL4.  I know Wave Digital is trying to sell their little 
GameCube-like box to Mac users as a looping box, but Mac users can get both 
an EDP and a Repeater for that price.  :)

I use a similar reasoning on my internal debate over a Mac laptop+Max/MSP 
vs. Korg KARMA.

Paolo

>BTW, I'm not arguing just for the sake of arguing, this is also an internal
>debate with my inner geek who keeps repeating the mantra "but it's SOOO
>COOOL!"
>
>     Kevin


_________________________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 10 21:13:45 2001
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From: just john <just-john@just-john.com>
Subject: [OT] Handsonic's Potential 4 Wackiness ...
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Sorry to be so Off Topic, but now I've seen evidence that at least three
other of you have Roland Handsonics, and I was wondering if you've done any
exploring of the odder possibilities of the beast.

F'rinstance:  I imagine for loopers, there'd be a big temptation to fiddle
with the option that allows pads to be programmed as sequence triggers.
Has anybody tried that?  Variations would include the "start sequence"
setting and the "play next sequence event" setting (I forget what Roland
calls that officially.)
---
* just-john@just-john.com  http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml *

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 11 10:40:26 2001
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Subject: ot but pretty cool
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 thought some of us might be interested.....:)m

<A HREF="http://www.topixonline.com/cgi-bin/sgin0101.exe?T1=Tm+341&UID=2001121106481199">Click here: Gadget Universe</A> 

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2> thought some of us might be interested.....:)m<BR>
<BR>
<A HREF="http://www.topixonline.com/cgi-bin/sgin0101.exe?T1=Tm+341&UID=2001121106481199">Click here: Gadget Universe</A> </FONT></HTML>

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Subject: Re: ot but pretty cool
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:00:00 -0600
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snips ~
-----Original Message-----
Subject: ot but pretty cool
> thought some of us might be interested.....:)m
><A
HREF="http://www.topixonline.com/cgi-bin/sgin0101.exe?T1=Tm+341&UID=20011211
06481199">Click here: Gadget Universe</A>



actually it is on topic, IMO. looping nature from a window. very cool.
Pedro Felix
------------------
Not only can you hear from afar but you can also record up to 12 seconds on
the digital chip for playback.
-----------------------

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 11 12:41:46 2001
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Subject: Re:Newbie question; EDP vs Repeater
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 17:09:33 +0000
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  Hello,
  As a guitarist looking to get into looping in a live
  situation, which unit, the EDP or the Repeater would
  be a better unit? I realize that this is going to be
  somewhat subjective, but that's ok as long as I get
  some feedback. Especially interested in what you all
  think in regards to performance vs cost of each unit.
  Thanks very much for your time!
  Sincerely,
  Chris Olden


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 11 13:19:56 2001
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:40:17 -0800
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From: rich <rich@nuvisionsca.com>
Subject: Re:Newbie question; EDP vs Repeater
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or...

chicken or the egg?

particle or wave?

red pill or blue pill?

george bush... animatron or retard?

mac or pc?

brian jones or ron wood?

pre-CBS or post?

butter side up, or butter side down?



sarcasm apologies in advance...knee deep in a assembling a 52 page 
catalog that's over deadline.  chris, check out the archives, there's 
a ton of subjective and objective info on these two infamous beasts! 
there's distinctive flavor to each, but they supposedly combine quite 
tastily...

best,

rich



>  Hello,
>  As a guitarist looking to get into looping in a live
>  situation, which unit, the EDP or the Repeater would
>  be a better unit? I realize that this is going to be
>  somewhat subjective, but that's ok as long as I get
>  some feedback. Especially interested in what you all
>  think in regards to performance vs cost of each unit.
>  Thanks very much for your time!
>  Sincerely,
>  Chris Olden
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 11 14:52:49 2001
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   Hello,
   Another newbie question; is there an amp simulator out
   there that is head and shoulders above the rest; or are
   they all pretty much in the same league? I'd be using
   it a live looping situation as my primary guitar noise
   generator. I'm looking at the Pod(or Pod Pro haven't
   decided), the Johnson J-Station, and doesn't Behringer
   make one now?
   Thanks again.
   Chris Olden




_________________________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 11 15:28:29 2001
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Subject: Re: Re:Newbie question; EDP vs Repeater
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Rich wrote:
>chicken or the egg?


snip


>brian jones or ron wood?


Hey, don't forget Mick Taylor !

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 11 15:33:05 2001
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If you already have an effects device, check out the Sansamp PSA-1.

Dave Eichenberger 
http://www.hazardfactor.com
 

>    Hello,
>    Another newbie question; is there an amp simulator out
>    there that is head and shoulders above the rest; or are
>    they all pretty much in the same league?  

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 11 15:51:56 2001
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:20:45 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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Subject: Tape Op Conference this summer
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http://www.tapeop.com/conference/index.html

this looks like an excellent conference for all the home recordists 
on the list, and in the Bay Area this summer...

-jb

-- 





-----

Jeff Blanding
jeff@modaldub.net
http://www.modaldub.net

-----

"Freedom is a scary thing - not many people really want it."
  - Laurie Anderson

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 11 16:09:27 2001
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Hi Chris. Personally I use both the Pod2 and the amp simulations in the Boss
VF1. I've tried various amp simulators in the last two years, and the one I
like the most is the Pod, I think it is the more dinamic I've tried, and the
sounds are close look-a-likes of the originals. I think that the Johnson has
a really 'digital' sound, and is really good for ultra-clean and (mostly)
ultra distorted sounds, but I really don't like its Crunch sounds. The Boss
is also really 'digital', but has really many ways to modify the sounds (I
use it mainly as a parallel fx unit).The behringer is a nice cheap unit, It
resembles the Pod in many ways,  and isn't bad at all for what concerns the
sounds.
If you can, try to A/B the units, and take the one that suits you the best.

Peace
Luigi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Olden" <chrisolden@hotmail.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 8:21 PM
Subject: Re:Newbie question; Amp Simulators


>
>
>    Hello,
>    Another newbie question; is there an amp simulator out
>    there that is head and shoulders above the rest; or are
>    they all pretty much in the same league? I'd be using
>    it a live looping situation as my primary guitar noise
>    generator. I'm looking at the Pod(or Pod Pro haven't
>    decided), the Johnson J-Station, and doesn't Behringer
>    make one now?
>    Thanks again.
>    Chris Olden
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 11 16:09:46 2001
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Subject: Re: Re:Newbie question; EDP vs Repeater
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chrisolden@hotmail.com writes:
>As a guitarist looking to get into looping in a live
>  situation, which unit, the EDP or the Repeater would
>  be a better unit? 
for me, neither is better; they're very different.
you should try them both, and maybe a boomerang, as well --- after 
researching their feature-sets, and trying to discern what you think you 
might wanna do w/a looping instrument.

ya know, like: a les paul is not a strat is not a tele is not a supro is not 
a klein is not a teuffel.

>I realize that this is going to be
>  somewhat subjective, but that's ok as long as I get
>  some feedback. 
>Especially interested in what you all
>  think in regards to performance vs cost of each unit.
they all seem fairly priced, to me, as they all offer different features & 
user interfaces.
EDP & boomerang are *very* foot-friendly, repeater is, also, *if* ya add some 
foot/hand-ctrls.
the pcm42, however, is way-too-expensive to replace!
*-)
personally, i won't sell my repeater, my EDP, nor my pcm42 --- at the moment 
(a pretty *long* moment, for me), they're all irreplaceable.

sorry if my response doesn't help too much!
best,
dt / splattercell

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-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Olden <chrisolden@hotmail.com>
>  As a guitarist looking to get into looping in a live
>  situation, which unit, the EDP or the Repeater would
>  be a better unit?

Hi Chris,

As someone already answered, the archives contain plenty of discussion on this
topic.  I would like to point out that you might want to keep something in mind
while reading old posts:  EDP and Repeater are really different beasties and you
need to know in advance what you want to do and what your present operating
techniques are.  Then get whichever device fits you the best.  If, like me,
you're still at the "I want to be able to loop on stage" stage, then you'll need
to do a lot of soul searching and archives reading.  Getting your hands on both
wouldn't hurt, either.  Try before you buy!  So far, my Akai Headrush is keeping
me from rushing out and buying an EDP or Repeater today.  But it'll happen,
eventually.  My goals (so far) are to play a guitar loop for use in Berlin
School music and to create ambient soundscapes.

Cheers,

Bill        billfox@fast.net           http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic
===============================================================================
Host of EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show.  Thursdays at
11 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem and 93.9 FM in Easton and
Phillipsburg.  Email me if you wish to submit music for airplay consideration.
Radio Station Home Page: http://wdiyfm.org
Personal site: http://www.users.fast.net/~billfox
To subscribe to the EMUSIC on WDIY list, go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/emusic-wdiy and click on [Join This Group!]

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 11 18:04:17 2001
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From: "Dylan B DeAnda" <dylan@loudcloud.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: Re:Newbie question; EDP vs Repeater
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 14:32:50 -0800
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This is just my neophyte opinion.
I am an EDP user, for the last year.


I use it live, with my mixer/turntables, as a way to dynamically loop/create
a beat, then to add a little overdub-frosting on it, and do scratch
compositions, move onto the next loop and so on....It's a great way to milk
the best part of a song for a few extra bars, or completely change the face
of the beat.

<I'm curious if there are any other edp users who are using them with their
turntables for scratch compositions.  I know DJ Radar has the edp as the
integral piece of his set>

I also use it for a limited amount of effects, such as delay or stutter
while playing.

I got the edp because I was using a KORG KAOSS pad and it didn't have enough
memory for sufficient looping/sampling.  The edp had a healthy amount of
memory, and a foot pedal.

I am not too hip on my edp as an effects unit, or maybe I just haven't
figured out all of the infinite combos to make those effects possible.

The pro's, for what I use it for:

Foot Pedal is great, since I am using both hands on the turntables and
mixer.


Memory is plenty.  Virtual memory is great too (partitioning up your
samples).

Interface is fast and easy to use, to get you basic looping.

It's designed as a sampler, and that's what it does.  Very well.

Cons:
The design of the edp (it would seem to me) is such that it's more designed
as a programming language (or the button sequences can be preprogrammed as a
meta language, sort of like scripting your commands) allowing more freedom
of what you can do with it, as long as you know the commands and sequences.
In order to squeeze all the creative juice out of the edp, and take
advantage of it's features,  you really have to know it deeply.  Whereas in
the repeater, it's not as open to such creativity, but it would seem that
it's features are much easier to take advantage of and explore.

With the repeater, the roadmap, of what you can do, is clearly laid out
before you, but with the edp, it's more like an exploration of failures and
discoveries....if you have the time and inclination.

EDP's Memory is not expandable past 16MB, nor can you use any removable
media, such as flash memory or smart media.  Repeater can use removable
media, which allows you to take your samples with you.


D
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Fox [mailto:billfox@fast.net]
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 1:21 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Re:Newbie question; EDP vs Repeater


-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Olden <chrisolden@hotmail.com>
>  As a guitarist looking to get into looping in a live
>  situation, which unit, the EDP or the Repeater would
>  be a better unit?

Hi Chris,

As someone already answered, the archives contain plenty of discussion on
this
topic.  I would like to point out that you might want to keep something in
mind
while reading old posts:  EDP and Repeater are really different beasties and
you
need to know in advance what you want to do and what your present operating
techniques are.  Then get whichever device fits you the best.  If, like me,
you're still at the "I want to be able to loop on stage" stage, then you'll
need
to do a lot of soul searching and archives reading.  Getting your hands on
both
wouldn't hurt, either.  Try before you buy!  So far, my Akai Headrush is
keeping
me from rushing out and buying an EDP or Repeater today.  But it'll happen,
eventually.  My goals (so far) are to play a guitar loop for use in Berlin
School music and to create ambient soundscapes.

Cheers,

Bill        billfox@fast.net           http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic
============================================================================
===
Host of EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show.  Thursdays at
11 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem and 93.9 FM in Easton and
Phillipsburg.  Email me if you wish to submit music for airplay
consideration.
Radio Station Home Page: http://wdiyfm.org
Personal site: http://www.users.fast.net/~billfox
To subscribe to the EMUSIC on WDIY list, go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/emusic-wdiy and click on [Join This Group!]

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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:20:23 EST
Subject: Re: Newbie question; Amp Simulators 
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In a message dated 12/11/01 2:24:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
chrisolden@hotmail.com writes:


> is there an amp simulator out
>    there that is head and shoulders above the rest; 

why simulate when you can create?.....:)m

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 12/11/01 2:24:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, chrisolden@hotmail.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">is there an amp simulator out<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp; there that is head and shoulders above the rest; </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
why simulate when you can create?.....:)m</FONT></HTML>

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From: Nemoguitt@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:31:52 EST
Subject: Re: Newbie question; EDP vs Repeater
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In a message dated 12/11/01 5:35:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
dylan@loudcloud.com writes:


> In order to squeeze all the creative juice out of the edp, and take
> advantage of it's features,  you really have to know it deeply. 

wow.....get the edp video tape and it will show you a ton-o-stuff.....oh 
gee's, i'm sorry, that happened in a dream i had.....make sure you try out 
the boomerang, in fact get as many loopers as you can, one is not 
enuf.....:)m

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 12/11/01 5:35:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, dylan@loudcloud.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">In order to squeeze all the creative juice out of the edp, and take<BR>
advantage of it's features,&nbsp; you really have to know it deeply. </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
wow.....get the edp video tape and it will show you a ton-o-stuff.....oh gee's, i'm sorry, that happened in a dream i had.....make sure you try out the boomerang, in fact get as many loopers as you can, one is not enuf.....:)m</FONT></HTML>

--part1_13d.6087876.2947f168_boundary--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 11 19:39:24 2001
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Newbie questions; Thanks!
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 00:07:17 +0000
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  Hello,
  Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to answer my
  questions. I guess I have some homework/shopping to do!
  A couple more questions;

  The EDP when fully loaded with RAM can hold how many
  minutes(of non-savable)loops? It is a mono unit, correct?

  The Repeater has 4 loops? Is that two sets of stereo loops,
  or 4 individual loops assignable as mono or as loop pairs?

  Is there a unit below Eventide price that does intelligent
  pitch shifting, that's still in production?

  Thankyou all again!
  Sincerely,
  Chris Olden






_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 11 20:52:36 2001
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From: Doug Lawrence <dlawren@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Pitch Shifting
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>   Is there a unit below Eventide price that does intelligent
>   pitch shifting, that's still in production?

With any great quality ... unfortunately no!

I did check out the pitch shifting in the Digitech 2120 guitar
preamp/processor and thought it was OK. (although I am a bass player)

This is one of the reasons I was checking out the Oberheim OM-1000, I
thought it may have good pitch shifting ... at $375 from musicyo.com, that's
a great price.

Right now, I'll have to be content with my Pearl Octaver (1 up - 2 down)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 11 21:38:42 2001
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Subject: Re: Pitch Shifting
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Hey -I am almost positive David Torn has the Oberheim effect box you
mentioned- saw it in his rig in an issue of EQ I think-  any opinions David?
I would actually be interested in an overall opinion myself- was interested
in it with the low price it is at- not to mention the pitch shifting on my
TC M-One is awful.

Cliff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Lawrence" <dlawren@pacbell.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: Pitch Shifting


> >   Is there a unit below Eventide price that does intelligent
> >   pitch shifting, that's still in production?
>
> With any great quality ... unfortunately no!
>
> I did check out the pitch shifting in the Digitech 2120 guitar
> preamp/processor and thought it was OK. (although I am a bass player)
>
> This is one of the reasons I was checking out the Oberheim OM-1000, I
> thought it may have good pitch shifting ... at $375 from musicyo.com,
that's
> a great price.
>
> Right now, I'll have to be content with my Pearl Octaver (1 up - 2 down)
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 11 21:51:40 2001
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From: "Pedro Felix" <PedroFelix@worldnet.att.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re: Tape Op Conference this summer
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:29:05 -0600
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snips -

recorded -----Original Message-----
>http://www.tapeop.com/conference/index.html

>this looks like an excellent conference for all the home recordists
>on the list, and in the Bay Area this summer...
>-jb
>
sure does, and for anyone who doesn't get this fine periodical It is
available snail mail for free and is chock full of information for the
recording type of musician. This month there is a great article on Rupert
Neve and the ongoing journal type articles of Phil Brown who has worked with
just about everyone. Highly suggested reading and it's free.

best regards, Pedro Felix - NYC 2001


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>
>   The Repeater has 4 loops? Is that two sets of stereo loops,
>   or 4 individual loops assignable as mono or as loop pairs?

The Repeater has 4 tracks per loop... up to 99 loops memory
permitting  (i think).  The tracks can be individual or 2 stereo
pairs.  Lotsa possibilities!

-jas
Albuquerque

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I would not blow a grand on a handsonic and then take it apart!  It
feels very toy like to me.  Not worth the money at all IMO.  If it was
under $400 then maybe.  Better to take apart one of those cheap Yamaha
all in one drum controllers if you want to hack.

However you might want to look into a Drumkat midi controller.  Much
more programmable midi wise.  Check out http://www.alternatemode.com.  

First it's a good quality midi percussion controller with 10 pads that
support an after touch of sorts plus 9 trigger inputs.  It has extensive
midi control and routing functions, can accept breath controller and
continuous controller info, etc...

It does sort of have a midi based looping feature where you hit a pad
and go into record mode.  Hit that pad again and it starts playing what
you played.  You can also add to the pattern.  An electronic drum module
like the Roland Td7 also does this.

Someone from Starrlabs is part of this group - I've been drooling over
the drumbar: http://www.starrlabs.com/percussion.html



-----Original Message-----
From: just john [mailto:just-john@just-john.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:44 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: [OT] Handsonic's Potential 4 Wackiness ...


Sorry to be so Off Topic, but now I've seen evidence that at least three
other of you have Roland Handsonics, and I was wondering if you've done
any
exploring of the odder possibilities of the beast.

F'rinstance:  I imagine for loopers, there'd be a big temptation to
fiddle
with the option that allows pads to be programmed as sequence triggers.
Has anybody tried that?  Variations would include the "start sequence"
setting and the "play next sequence event" setting (I forget what Roland
calls that officially.)
---
* just-john@just-john.com  http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml *

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 11 23:39:53 2001
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From: just john <just-john@just-john.com>
Subject: RE: [OT] Handsonic's Potential 4 Wackiness ...
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>I would not blow a grand on a handsonic and then take it apart!

Software -- You've heard of it?  I'm talking patch programming.
---
* just-john@just-john.com  http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml *

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Subject: RE: [OT] Handsonic's Potential 4 Wackiness ...
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 20:55:40 -0800
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Bill Wolf wrote on Tuesday, December 11, 2001 7:56 PM
>I would not blow a grand on a handsonic and then take it apart!  It
>feels very toy like to me.  Not worth the money at all IMO.  If it was
>under $400 then maybe.  Better to take apart one of those cheap Yamaha
>all in one drum controllers if you want to hack.
<snip>
>Someone from Starrlabs is part of this group - I've been drooling over
>the drumbar: http://www.starrlabs.com/percussion.html

Harvey's software upgrade for the Ztar includes a MIDI looper that allegedly
sends clock and is assignable to the drum pads (those trigger thingies).
He's got my doubleneck and is replacing the board so I can get the upgrade
(mine was too old--he says it's tough to rewrite code for old
microprocessors), and I hope to have the unit by the end of the week.  I've
been using it to control the Echoplex already, and if all goes well with
this upgrade and the EDP upgrade (coming soon?), I should be able to clock
the looper to the MIDI looper.  OK!!!!
BTW, he's got a demo Z6 !!in stock!! under specials--for those of you
looking for a quick fix, this is the time--usually ya gotta wait for the
dang things--we need to clone Mr. Starr . . .
Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: just john [mailto:just-john@just-john.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:44 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: [OT] Handsonic's Potential 4 Wackiness ...


Sorry to be so Off Topic, but now I've seen evidence that at least three
other of you have Roland Handsonics, and I was wondering if you've done
any
exploring of the odder possibilities of the beast.

F'rinstance:  I imagine for loopers, there'd be a big temptation to
fiddle
with the option that allows pads to be programmed as sequence triggers.
Has anybody tried that?  Variations would include the "start sequence"
setting and the "play next sequence event" setting (I forget what Roland
calls that officially.)
---
* just-john@just-john.com  http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml *

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 00:30:20 2001
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Subject: Re: Re:Newbie question; EDP vs Repeater
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-----Original Message-----
From: Hedewa7@aol.com <Hedewa7@aol.com>
>for me, neither is better; they're very different.
>you should try them both, and maybe a boomerang, as well --- after
>researching their feature-sets, and trying to discern what you think you
>might wanna do w/a looping instrument.

Hi dt,

Since EDP, Repeater, and Boomerang are all different and you seem to have/use
all three, can you explain how you use each one?  What applications do you
associate with each device?

Cheers,

Bill

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 00:36:22 2001
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 23:08:41 -0600
Subject: Handsonic
From: Tom Roady <tomroady@charter.net>
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Paolo....a question please....What don't you like about the Handsonic?

and a comment....The Karma is "ridiculous". I just got one and absolutely
love it.  but I'm still saving up for a G4 Titanium Powerbook
tr 

From: "Paolo Valladolid" <phv40@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 20:08:32 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Wave Digital's new portable PC

Sounds like a familiar argument. I have lost it myself a few times (like
when I bought a Handsonic on impulse). :)

I still use my lowly DL4 for looping right now.  I think for me the hardware
looper plus a phrase sampler would be a more reliable solution as an upgrade
over the DL4.  I know Wave Digital is trying to sell their little
GameCube-like box to Mac users as a looping box, but Mac users can get both
an EDP and a Repeater for that price.  :)

I use a similar reasoning on my internal debate over a Mac laptop+Max/MSP
vs. Korg KARMA.

Paolo

>BTW, I'm not arguing just for the sake of arguing, this is also an internal
>debate with my inner geek who keeps repeating the mantra "but it's SOOO
>COOOL!"
>
>     Kevin



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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Handsonic</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<TT>Paolo....a question please....What don't you like about the Handsonic?<=
BR>
<BR>
and a comment....The Karma is &quot;ridiculous&quot;. I just got one and ab=
solutely love it. &nbsp;but I'm still saving up for a G4 Titanium Powerbook =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;tr <BR>
 <BR>
</TT><B>From: </B>&quot;Paolo Valladolid&quot; &lt;<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U=
>phv40@hotmail.com</U></FONT>&gt;<BR>
<B>Date: </B>Mon, 10 Dec 2001 20:08:32 -0500<BR>
<B>To: </B><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<BR>
</U></FONT><B>Subject: </B>Re: Wave Digital's new portable PC<BR>
<BR>
<TT>Sounds like a familiar argument. I have lost it myself a few times (lik=
e <BR>
when I bought a Handsonic on impulse). :)<BR>
<BR>
I still use my lowly DL4 for looping right now. &nbsp;I think for me the ha=
rdware <BR>
looper plus a phrase sampler would be a more reliable solution as an upgrad=
e <BR>
over the DL4. &nbsp;I know Wave Digital is trying to sell their little <BR>
GameCube-like box to Mac users as a looping box, but Mac users can get both=
 <BR>
an EDP and a Repeater for that price. &nbsp;:)<BR>
<BR>
I use a similar reasoning on my internal debate over a Mac laptop+Max/MSP <=
BR>
vs. Korg KARMA.<BR>
<BR>
Paolo<BR>
<BR>
&gt;BTW, I'm not arguing just for the sake of arguing, this is also an inte=
rnal<BR>
&gt;debate with my inner geek who keeps repeating the mantra &quot;but it's=
 SOOO<BR>
&gt;COOOL!&quot;<BR>
&gt;<BR>
&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Kevin<BR>
<BR>
</TT>
</BODY>
</HTML>


--MS_Mac_OE_3090956921_26529990_MIME_Part--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 00:41:54 2001
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:17:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Robert Deveaux <robert_deveaux@yahoo.com>
Subject: Repeater multiply function
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Hello all,
Is there a way to record a short percussive loop
on the REPEATER & go into a multiply mode where I
can record a rhythm over the drum loop & turn it
off when I decide to end the rhythm?  
I know there is a "Multiply" function where I can
multiply it out in multiples of 2 times, but I
would much rather do it on the fly because
sometimes I do not know how long my rhythm
section will be.  
I want it to do a loop multiply quantize similar
to the EDP.
Thanks,
         

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 00:42:22 2001
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 23:14:03 -0600
Subject:  re:[OT] Handsonic's Potential 4 Wackiness 
From: Tom Roady <tomroady@charter.net>
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Do you mean internal sequences or external? I use mine to sync midi clock to
my edp as well as my partner's edp...The only thing I REALLY wish it had was
another pair of stereo outs.   tr

From: just john <just-john@just-john.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 20:44:20 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: [OT] Handsonic's Potential 4 Wackiness ...

Sorry to be so Off Topic, but now I've seen evidence that at least three
other of you have Roland Handsonics, and I was wondering if you've done any
exploring of the odder possibilities of the beast.

F'rinstance:  I imagine for loopers, there'd be a big temptation to fiddle
with the option that allows pads to be programmed as sequence triggers.
Has anybody tried that?  Variations would include the "start sequence"
setting and the "play next sequence event" setting (I forget what Roland
calls that officially.)
---
* just-john@just-john.com  http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml *


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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE> re:[OT] Handsonic's Potential 4 Wackiness </TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<B>Do you mean internal sequences or external? I use mine to sync midi cloc=
k to my edp as well as my partner's edp...The only thing I REALLY wish it ha=
d was another pair of stereo outs. &nbsp;&nbsp;tr<BR>
<BR>
From: </B>just john &lt;<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>just-john@just-john.com</U=
></FONT>&gt;<BR>
<B>Date: </B>Mon, 10 Dec 2001 20:44:20 -0500<BR>
<B>To: </B><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com<BR>
</U></FONT><B>Subject: </B>[OT] Handsonic's Potential 4 Wackiness ...<BR>
<BR>
<TT>Sorry to be so Off Topic, but now I've seen evidence that at least thre=
e<BR>
other of you have Roland Handsonics, and I was wondering if you've done any=
<BR>
exploring of the odder possibilities of the beast.<BR>
<BR>
F'rinstance: &nbsp;I imagine for loopers, there'd be a big temptation to fi=
ddle<BR>
with the option that allows pads to be programmed as sequence triggers.<BR>
Has anybody tried that? &nbsp;Variations would include the &quot;start sequ=
ence&quot;<BR>
setting and the &quot;play next sequence event&quot; setting (I forget what=
 Roland<BR>
calls that officially.)<BR>
---<BR>
* <FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>just-john@just-john.com</U></FONT> &nbsp;<FONT C=
OLOR=3D"#0000FF"><U>http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml</U></FONT> *<BR>
</TT>
</BODY>
</HTML>


--MS_Mac_OE_3090957244_26549367_MIME_Part--

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Subject: re:[OT] Handsonic's Potential 4 Wackiness
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>Do you mean internal sequences or external? I use mine to sync midi clock
>to my edp as well as my partner's edp...The only thing I REALLY wish it
>had was another pair of stereo outs.   tr
>

I was thinking internal sequences, generally to the on-board sounds.  For
the "play sequence" setting* , I could imagine setting up sequences for
each chord in a tune as being the most basic way to go about it.  You
reserve the inner pads for percussion sounds and use, say, some spacey,
droney sounds within the sequences.

It weirded me out when I got the thing, that this "electronic bongo" has
better piano sounds than my old Proteus.  I find myself wishing it had good
fiddle patches, so I could set it up as a cross between Jon Hassel's
"Fourth World" sounds and bluegrass.

So as you may have guessed, I've been too busy gawking at the possibilities
for programming tweaks to its internal sounds, and I haven't done much
contemplation of using it to control other stuff.






* (as opposed to the "play next note event in the sequence" -- not that
that's what it's officially called)
---
* just-john@just-john.com  http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml *

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Pedro Felix wrote:

> snips -
>
> recorded -----Original Message-----
> >http://www.tapeop.com/conference/index.html
>
> >this looks like an excellent conference for all the home recordists
> >on the list, and in the Bay Area this summer...
> >-jb
> >
> sure does, and for anyone who doesn't get this fine periodical It is
> available snail mail for free and is chock full of information for the
> recording type of musician. This month there is a great article on Rupert
> Neve and the ongoing journal type articles of Phil Brown who has worked with
> just about everyone. Highly suggested reading and it's free.
>
> best regards, Pedro Felix - NYC 2001

not to mention the absolutely groovy interview with kevin shields ('my bloody
valentine') and behind the scenes on rolling stones/muscle shoals
sessions...what an awesome issue!

i hope to be travelling north in time for this conference...it sounds like a
great way to spend a few days...

lance g.

ps tape op's free if you subscribe online. otherwise i think it costs a little
bit.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 02:43:52 2001
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Chris Olden wrote:

> (snip)

> The EDP when fully loaded with RAM can hold how many
>   minutes(of non-savable)loops?

196 seconds (or 3.26 minutes...)

> It is a mono unit, correct?

si.

check out the faq page on looper's delight for more info, if yer
interested :-)

lance g.



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 03:34:25 2001
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On Tuesday, December 11, 2001, at 04:07 PM, Chris Olden wrote:
>
>  The Repeater has 4 loops? Is that two sets of stereo loops,
>  or 4 individual loops assignable as mono or as loop pairs?

No, the Repeater can do up to 999 loops in it's memory. (!)  Each can 
consist of either 4 mono loops, or two stereo loops.  Faders can control 
their relative volumes.

Mark

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Hello-

My EDP is acting strange tonight and I am wondering if any of you have
experienced similar behavior and can offer any suggestions. It currently
resides in a 3sp rack with a TC M-One below and a JamMan above- after being
on for a few hours and not being used at all I looked and it was repeating
the start display sequence over and over- (it was obviously just trying to
bring attention to my overt neglect) - after powering it down numerous times
it would stop responding with 5.0 in the display- it is luke warm to the
touch and has seen hotter conditions so I'm doubtful heat is the culprit-
maybe I should remove the RAM and clean it? Thanks in advance-

Cliff

PS- I just turned around and saw it scrolling the Loop 3.0 again then
stopped on 5.0- is this the EDP's way of sticking it's tounge at me behind
my back? :)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 06:39:36 2001
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:06:56 +0000
Subject: New loop-heavy Real Audio from forthcoming album
From: Steve Lawson <steve@steve-lawson.co.uk>
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Greeting Loopsters!

Just a quick note to say that I've added a couple of (rather long) tracks to
my website for a forthcoming duo CD that I've just finished recording with
pianist Jez Carr - all the music is freely improvised, or perhaps more
accurately, unplanned and spontaneously composed. The only effect I'm using
is a DL4 (and I think I've managed to squeeze some pretty varied sounds from
one box!) and there's no post-processing going on, save the addition of a
little reverb in pro-tools, and no editing.

Hope you enjoy  them - the CD (with another 5 tracks) should be out
Feb/March next year...

head for the MP3/Real Audio page on my website... do let me know what you
think... 

cheers

Steve 
www.steve-lawson.co.uk 

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In a message dated 12/12/2001 3:06:07 AM, sine@zerocrossing.net writes:

>Chris Olden wrote:
>>
>>  The Repeater has 4 loops? Is that two sets of stereo loops,
>>  or 4 individual loops assignable as mono or as loop pairs?

mark sottilaro replied:
>No, the Repeater can do up to 999 loops in it's memory. (!)  Each can 
>consist of either 4 mono loops, or two stereo loops.  Faders can control
>their relative volumes.

right, but to clarify:
each repeater *loop* can consist of up to 4 *tracks*; these can be used as 4 
mono-tracks, 2 stereo-tracks, or 2 mono- & 1 stereo-track..... user's choice.
best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 09:40:02 2001
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Subject: Re:EDP Undo Question
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> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--MS_Mac_OE_3090992781_55992_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

I'm a little confused by the undo operation on the EDP, and was wondering if
anyone could clear it up for me (like through one of your wonderful little
essays, Kim?).
I've read the manual, and understand that a long press is supposed to undo
the entire previous layer (given memory limitations), and a short press is
supposed to undo the tail end starting from where you press "undo".  But my
EDP seems erratic in this function -- often I have to press undo twice or
more to undo the previous layer, and often it doesn't allow a long press --
the little undo light blinks on and off really quickly.  Also, it seems to
me that sometimes I have to press undo while the previously recorded
material I want to undo is actually playing.  If I press it elsewhere in the
loop, nothing happens.
Comments, anyone?  thanks in advance. 

--MS_Mac_OE_3090992781_55992_MIME_Part
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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re:EDP Undo Question</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<FONT SIZE=3D"4">I'm a little confused by the undo operation on the EDP, and =
was wondering if anyone could clear it up for me (like through one of your w=
onderful little essays, Kim?).<BR>
I've read the manual, and understand that a long press is supposed to undo =
the entire previous layer (given memory limitations), and a short press is s=
upposed to undo the tail end starting from where you press &quot;undo&quot;.=
 &nbsp;But my EDP seems erratic in this function -- often I have to press un=
do twice or more to undo the previous layer, and often it doesn't allow a lo=
ng press -- the little undo light blinks on and off really quickly. &nbsp;Al=
so, it seems to me that sometimes I have to press undo while the previously =
recorded material I want to undo is actually playing. &nbsp;If I press it el=
sewhere in the loop, nothing happens.<BR>
Comments, anyone? &nbsp;thanks in advance.</FONT>
</BODY>
</HTML>


--MS_Mac_OE_3090992781_55992_MIME_Part--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 09:40:30 2001
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:08:36 EST
Subject: Re: Repeater multiply function
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rd,
>Is there a way to record a short percussive loop
>on the REPEATER & go into a multiply mode where I
>can record a rhythm over the drum loop & turn it
>off when I decide to end the rhythm?
no, i don't think so.
possible workarounds might include 'fractional multiply' *after* multiply, 
and/or 'trimming' to taste after 'multiply'..... but, neither method sounds 
as if it'll suit your improvisatory needs.....

>I know there is a "Multiply" function where I can
>multiply it out in multiples of 2 times, but I
>would much rather do it on the fly because
>sometimes I do not know how long my rhythm
>section will be. 
better than me, though:
i *never* know how long your rhythm section's gonna be.
*-)

>I want it to do a loop multiply quantize similar
>to the EDP.
me, too.
so, i still use an EDP in addition to repeater.
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 09:45:29 2001
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Subject: Re: Re:Newbie question; EDP vs Repeater
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billfox,
>Since EDP, Repeater, and Boomerang are all different and you seem to have/use
>all three, can you explain how you use each one? 
no, i don't have a boomerang ---
my three loopers are repeater, edp & lexicon pcm42.

>What applications do
>you associate with each device?
that's gonna require a longer answer than i have time for, right now.....
best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 09:46:15 2001
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:15:32 EST
Subject: Re: Pitch Shifting
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res0koq3@verizon.net writes:
>Hey -I am almost positive David Torn has the Oberheim effect box you
>mentioned- saw it in his rig in an issue of EQ I think-  any opinions David?

yeah; while i do have that obie-box, i still use a lexicon pcm80 for 
'hardware' pitch-shifting etc.
best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 09:48:54 2001
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Subject: Re: Pitch Shifting, again
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cliff,
.....sorry, i missed the beginning of the thread:
i don't really use 'intelligent' pitch-shifting.
best,
dt / splattercell

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Just one question .... How long can a single loop employing all Repeater TRK's
last in duration using a 128 FlashCard.
That is, one loop engaging as much information as possible by the unit working
at all possible maximums.
Thank you in advance for an answer to this question.

Hedewa7@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 12/12/2001 3:06:07 AM, sine@zerocrossing.net writes:
>
> >Chris Olden wrote:
> >>
> >>  The Repeater has 4 loops? Is that two sets of stereo loops,
> >>  or 4 individual loops assignable as mono or as loop pairs?
>
> mark sottilaro replied:
> >No, the Repeater can do up to 999 loops in it's memory. (!)  Each can
> >consist of either 4 mono loops, or two stereo loops.  Faders can control
> >their relative volumes.
>
> right, but to clarify:
> each repeater *loop* can consist of up to 4 *tracks*; these can be used as 4
> mono-tracks, 2 stereo-tracks, or 2 mono- & 1 stereo-track..... user's choice.
> best,
> dt / splattercell

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hutton@pathcom.com writes:

>Just one question .... How long can a single loop employing all Repeater
>TRK's
>last in duration using a 128 FlashCard.
>That is, one loop engaging as much information as possible by the unit
>working
>at all possible maximums.
>Thank you in advance for an answer to this question.
i *believe* that there's an 8-minute boundary for any individual loop.
dt / splattercell

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From: Matthias Grob <matthias@grob.org>
Subject: Re:EDP Undo Question
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>I'm a little confused by the undo operation on the EDP, and was 
>wondering if anyone could clear it up for me (like through one of 
>your wonderful little essays, Kim?).
>I've read the manual, and understand that a long press is supposed 
>to undo the entire previous layer (given memory limitations), and a 
>short press is supposed to undo the tail end starting from where you 
>press "undo".  But my EDP seems erratic in this function -- often I 
>have to press undo twice or more to undo the previous layer, and 
>often it doesn't allow a long press -- the little undo light blinks 
>on and off really quickly.  Also, it seems to me that sometimes I 
>have to press undo while the previously recorded material I want to 
>undo is actually playing.  If I press it elsewhere in the loop, 
>nothing happens.
>Comments, anyone?  thanks in advance.

This is an old question and there must be several answers in the archives/FAQ.

Anyway shortly again:
- If you already listened back to the part you want to erase, it 
means that there was a copy made in the memory, so you have to press 
Undo twice. A typical situation is that you want to Undo a bit, then 
listen its still there, press Undo again, but only erase the new copy 
with it, so its still there and you press again... the 
Undo-Agony-Loop ;-)
(In upcoming Loop4 only one press erases the empty copy plus the last overdub!)
- The green LED tells you that there is still enough sound in memory 
for an Undo. Depending on previous alterations to the loop, its 
possible that this condition is only given in the later part of the 
loop, so the LED blinks. And you only get an effect if you press 
while its lit. (in Loop4, you can press anytime and the Undo is done 
asap)
- There are situations where a previous Overdub extends over loop 
start or is fading out softly, so you think you press after the last 
layer to undo it all while you really just undo an inaudible end of 
it. (a musical question, no technical solution, unfortunately)
-- 


          ---> http://Matthias.Grob.org

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Subject: Re: New loop-heavy Real Audio from forthcoming album
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Steve,

Very fine work! I am listening to the second piece as I write
and I am enjoying it especially. Wonderfully sensitive playing! 
Like all great improvisations it sounds like you're really listening 
to each other and using your imaginations. I'm digging it a lot. 
Hey! I'll buy a CD when it comes out. Thanks for sharing.

Best,

Ted Killian

www.mp3.com/TedKillian
www.pfmentum.com/flux.html
www.mp3.com/Ophelia_Pancake

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 11:48:05 2001
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:17:35 -0800 (PST)
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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Is there a starrlab demo video available? thanx, Bill

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> Subject: Re:Newbie question; Amp Simulators 
> Message-ID: <F1547TOLs8GdWtL2xDN000191bc@hotmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
> 
>    Hello,
>    Another newbie question; is there an amp simulator out
>    there that is head and shoulders above the rest; or are
>    they all pretty much in the same league? I'd be using
>    it a live looping situation as my primary guitar noise
>    generator. I'm looking at the Pod(or Pod Pro haven't
>    decided), the Johnson J-Station, and doesn't Behringer
>    make one now?
>    Thanks again.
>    Chris Olden

They are all the same and IMO they all suck big time. There is not one 
single really useable guitar tone to be found in a Pod and, for that 
matter, in any of the Line 6 stuff I've tried. there might be handy 
aplications in the studio but not for serious stuff. I happened to see a 
demo of a H&K Centera amp the other week and that big, heavy and expensive 
piece of gear in fact does sound reasonably good. But for live playing I'd 
always recommend one (or two for stereo) decent small to midsize (tube) 
amps plus a blend of your favorite toys to go with it.

andreas 

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>   Is there a unit below Eventide price that does intelligent
>   pitch shifting, that's still in production?

------> t.c. g-force

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 13:39:21 2001
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Subject: Fwd: The Ambient Ping presents Neil Wiernik and S3 Toronto Canada
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------- Start of forwarded message -------
 
From: "Neil W." <neil@web.net>
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 18:17:53 -0500 (EST)


The Ambient Ping Presents

Neil Wiernik (aka naw/dropfile)

S3 (aka Susanna Hood/Liminal/Hum)

December 18th 2001
Free - 1st set at 9:30
Club nia / C'est What
19 Church St. (at Front St)
Toronto, Canada
http://www.theambientping.com

Audio contortionist Neil Wiernik (aka naw & dropfile) presents
the live premiere of "Low Level Breathing", an exploration of
sound below sea level.  Neil has constructed an application
especially for this performance, enabling him to control all his
various processes and how they are diffused to the audience.
http://cec.concordia.ca/Radio/Long/Wiernik.html

Performing as her sonic alter-ego S3, dancer and choreographer
Susanna Hood (hum, LiminaL Projects) will be using her voice,
the wood and strings of a piano, motors, chimes, looper and
other gadgets to create layered soundscapes and abstract
songs with a little borrowing here and there from some favorite
standards. Don't be surprised if she starts moving around.
http://www.humprojects.org/subio.html


THE AMBiENT PiNG   http://www.theambientping.com
The Ambient Ping presents free live performances by Toronto's
finest ambient, chill-out and experimental music artists plus
performers from across the continent.

Please forward this e-mail to any friends who may be
interested in live ambient and experimental performances.
		     
------- End of forwarded message -------

James Bailey
host: A Missing Sense / Electric Storm
CKLN-FM 88.1 Toronto
ckln.sac.ryerson.ca
__________________________________________________________
Get your FREE personalized e-mail at http://www.canada.com

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> >    Another newbie question; is there an amp simulator out   there that is
> head and shoulders above the rest; or are
> >    they all pretty much in the same league?

> They are all the same and IMO they all suck big time.

Heh. For the most part I agree with this. However, I am rather fond of the
Sansamp pieces. I've used the original stompbox sized one and found it very
expressive. There are a few models out now (as well a as few discontinued
ones) so you might want ot read around on them but IMO the Sansamp thingies
are worth checking out.



____________________________________________________________________
HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.HelpWantedProductions.com
"Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..."

Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and
info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more.


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 13:41:10 2001
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Subject: Re: Newbie questions; Thanks!
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The VF-1 has an intelligent pitch shifter inside, along with the amp
simulators etc...
Not that good  (certainly not an eventide), but really utilizable.

Peace
Luigi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Olden" <chrisolden@hotmail.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: Newbie questions; Thanks!


>
>   Hello,
>   Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to answer my
>   questions. I guess I have some homework/shopping to do!
>   A couple more questions;
>
>   The EDP when fully loaded with RAM can hold how many
>   minutes(of non-savable)loops? It is a mono unit, correct?
>
>   The Repeater has 4 loops? Is that two sets of stereo loops,
>   or 4 individual loops assignable as mono or as loop pairs?
>
>   Is there a unit below Eventide price that does intelligent
>   pitch shifting, that's still in production?
>
>   Thankyou all again!
>   Sincerely,
>   Chris Olden
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 13:53:59 2001
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From: Steve Sandberg <stevesandberg@earthlink.net>
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> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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I had a similar problem once -- it turned out to be a loose Simm chip.
Eventually, I had to open up the unit and put the chip in solidly (actually,
I had someone else do it but it seemed really simple).  The short term fix,
though, was to give it a solid smack on the chassis!



Subject: EDP question

Hello-

My EDP is acting strange tonight and I am wondering if any of you have
experienced similar behavior and can offer any suggestions.


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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: EDP Question</TITLE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE>I had a similar problem once -- it turned out to be a loose Sim=
m chip. &nbsp;Eventually, I had to open up the unit and put the chip in soli=
dly (actually, I had someone else do it but it seemed really simple). &nbsp;=
The short term fix, though, was to give it a solid smack on the chassis!<BR>
<B><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Subject: </B>EDP question<BR>
<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3D"4">Hello-<BR>
<BR>
My EDP is acting strange tonight and I am wondering if any of you have<BR>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"4">experienced similar behavior and can off=
er any suggestions.<BR>
</FONT>
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Re: EDP QuestionThanks- I'll open it up and clean them and re-seat them- =


It started up fine this morning so I left it on to see if it will be =
bugging out later when I get home-=20

Cliff
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Steve Sandberg=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 10:16 AM
  Subject: Re: EDP Question


    I had a similar problem once -- it turned out to be a loose Simm =
chip.  Eventually, I had to open up the unit and put the chip in solidly =
(actually, I had someone else do it but it seemed really simple).  The =
short term fix, though, was to give it a solid smack on the chassis!



    Subject: EDP question

    Hello-

    My EDP is acting strange tonight and I am wondering if any of you =
have

  experienced similar behavior and can offer any suggestions.


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Re: EDP Question</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks- I'll open it up and clean them and re-seat =
them-=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>It started up fine this morning so I left it on to =
see if=20
it&nbsp;will be&nbsp;bugging out later when I get home- </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Cliff</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dstevesandberg@earthlink.net=20
  href=3D"mailto:stevesandberg@earthlink.net">Steve Sandberg</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 12, =
2001 10:16=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: EDP Question</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE>I had a similar problem once -- it turned out to be a =
loose Simm=20
    chip. &nbsp;Eventually, I had to open up the unit and put the chip =
in=20
    solidly (actually, I had someone else do it but it seemed really =
simple).=20
    &nbsp;The short term fix, though, was to give it a solid smack on =
the=20
    chassis!<BR><B><BR><BR><BR>Subject: </B>EDP question<BR><BR><FONT=20
    size=3D4>Hello-<BR><BR>My EDP is acting strange tonight and I am =
wondering if=20
    any of you have<BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT size=3D4>experienced =
similar=20
  behavior and can offer any =
suggestions.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 14:39:37 2001
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From: "Luigi Meloni" <LuigiMeloni74@LIBERO.it>
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Subject: Re: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V01 #715
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:05:45 +0100
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Hi Andreas. Have you really ever tried a pod??? Or some line6 products? Or
have you only heard the preset sounds???
Having had and used some marshalls, fenders and laneys I find that the
emulations in the pods are really good (certainly you have to use it with
some good power amp or pa system, not in front of a guitar amp or on a
multimedia desktop system)...but I skipped completelly the presets (those
really suck), I use it in manual mode, and create my sounds from scratch.

Peace
Luigi

----- Original Message -----
From: "A.Willers" <A.Willers@t-online.de>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V01 #715



> They are all the same and IMO they all suck big time. There is not one
> single really useable guitar tone to be found in a Pod and, for that
> matter, in any of the Line 6 stuff I've tried. there might be handy
> aplications in the studio but not for serious stuff. I happened to see a
> demo of a H&K Centera amp the other week and that big, heavy and expensive
> piece of gear in fact does sound reasonably good. But for live playing I'd
> always recommend one (or two for stereo) decent small to midsize (tube)
> amps plus a blend of your favorite toys to go with it.

> andreas


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 15:04:12 2001
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From: Matthias Grob <matthias@grob.org>
Subject: Upgrade distribution
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A little business for an unemployed brother.
(This is not meant do be discussed on the list, please answer privately.)

As the Loop4 soft becomes mature, we need to send it out some to 
testers and later distribute to everyone interested.
Unfortunately Kim is too busy to do it and I am too far away.

The process is:
- get an EPROM burner (little box for about $150, software included for PC)
- buy EPROMs from a distributor to be indicated
- get my burn file as email attachment
- set up the software (can be tricky until it works the first time)
- burn EPROMs in pairs (just exchange EPROM, click Start and wait 
about 20seconds)
- print the manual upgrade and upgrade manual
- pack them together and mail to users
- charge the users by credit card or paypal or whatever is best
- give some assistance in case the user has problems with the upgrading
- list up the sales nicely...
- maybe help to advertize the product to users of which we dont have 
an email adress.

The first few EPROMs we need to send out asap, later it can turn into 
an almost full time job for about a month and then over a longer 
period there may be ocasional work.
-- 


          ---> http://Matthias.Grob.org

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Subject: Starrlab Demo (was [OT] Handsonic's Potential 4 Wackiness ...)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:46:33 -0800
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William Mcallister wrote on Wednesday, December 12, 2001 8:18 AM

Is there a starrlab demo video available? thanx, Bill

Harvey says not yet . . . I know that Chris King had some Quicktime stuff on
his web site but those files are unavailable right now.  Bobby Beausoliel
(that name ring a bell?) is supposed to be doing something sometime (he's on
the demo CD) but nothing available right now . . .  Also Harvey says he
hasn't worked on the software upgrade this week, so we wait patiently for
good things to come . . .
Gary

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Legion wrote:

> > >    Another newbie question; is there an amp simulator out   there that is
> > head and shoulders above the rest; or are
> > >    they all pretty much in the same league?
>
> > They are all the same and IMO they all suck big time.
>
> Heh. For the most part I agree with this. However, I am rather fond of the
> Sansamp pieces. I've used the original stompbox sized one and found it very
> expressive. There are a few models out now (as well a as few discontinued
> ones) so you might want ot read around on them but IMO the Sansamp thingies
> are worth checking out.
>

imho these things generally (and sansamp in particular) sound best when they're
being used for other than trying to emulate (or replace) existing tube amp
tones. the sansamp gear for example works wonders on vocal tracks, drums, etc.
where you might want to create an unusual texture or two...you can use them on
guitar but best not to think you'll somehow be able to conjure up that magical
n.o.s. tube mojo...subvert the designer's plans and you can't (nearly) go wrong!

lance g.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 16:45:25 2001
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:14:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Robert Deveaux <robert_deveaux@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Repeater multiply function
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> dt / splattercell
Thanks for the response.  I just wanted to be
sure that I hadn't missed something.

1 more question (if you have time)-
Have you tried using them together with the edp
doing the percussive part & laying down the
rhythm on the Repeater?  If so...how do you
connect the 2 for best results (synching & andio
connections).
Thank you,

 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 16:51:42 2001
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:21:05 -0600
From: jim palmer <jimp@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Pod
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i have to second this.
i also have the pod (v 1) and though i have not fully explored the possibilities,
i think manual mode allows for some nice sounds.
i don't like the presets much at all.
the emulations are just ok but are much easier than hauling several amps to a gig.
once the guitar is buried in the mix by a drums and vocals sound guy, they
are probably indistinguishable from the real thing anyway...

my only problem with this box is that you can't really overdrive it like a real tube amp.
you can kind of fake it with the controls, but you have to think differently.
(you can't just throw a tube screamer in front of it and crank the level)

i think it is a great looper tool, because you can loop the amp sound without
having to mike it.  running a looper between guitar and amp just doesn't cut it for me.

> Hi Andreas. Have you really ever tried a pod??? Or some line6 products? Or
> have you only heard the preset sounds???
> Having had and used some marshalls, fenders and laneys I find that the
> emulations in the pods are really good (certainly you have to use it with
> some good power amp or pa system, not in front of a guitar amp or on a
> multimedia desktop system)...but I skipped completelly the presets (those
> really suck), I use it in manual mode, and create my sounds from scratch.
> 
> Peace
> Luigi
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "A.Willers" <A.Willers@t-online.de>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 6:36 PM
> Subject: Re: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V01 #715
> 
> 
> 
> > They are all the same and IMO they all suck big time. There is not one
> > single really useable guitar tone to be found in a Pod and, for that
> > matter, in any of the Line 6 stuff I've tried. there might be handy
> > aplications in the studio but not for serious stuff. I happened to see a
> > demo of a H&K Centera amp the other week and that big, heavy and expensive
> > piece of gear in fact does sound reasonably good. But for live playing I'd
> > always recommend one (or two for stereo) decent small to midsize (tube)
> > amps plus a blend of your favorite toys to go with it.
> 
> > andreas
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 17:08:40 2001
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From: "matt davignon" <mattdavignon@hotmail.com>
To: loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Where to buy Jewel cases in SF?
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:36:20 -0800
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I need to obtain clear CD jewel cases by friday. Does anybody know of a 
place in SF or Oakland where I could go to purchase these in a small bulk 
order (like 50)?

I've had luck in the past with CD Duplication places that aren't bedroom-run 
affairs. There was one place around 4th and Howard a few years ago, but I 
can't seem to find them now.

I'm looking for CLEAR CD jewel cases, as in the piece that the CD itself 
rests on is as clear as the rest of the case.

Thanks,

Matt

_________________________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 17:23:43 2001
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I've had similar experience with undo on the EDP, which is probably the
main reason I don't use mine more.  It feels to me like I never know
what undo is going to do, or even if it will work at all. I've gotten
into states where pressing undo doesn't do anything, and it's not
because I've run out of memory (or at least shouldn't have).

One of the things that would make undo more usable for me would be
having the short press be the "undo everything."  This is almost always
what I want to do, and having to press for a second to get it is
painful.  Maybe a parameter that allows the user to toggle between long
and short ?

Elby



Subject:
        Re:EDP Undo Question
   Date:
        Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:06:21 -0500
   From:
        Steve Sandberg <stevesandberg@earthlink.net>
     To:
        <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>



I'm a little confused by the undo operation on the EDP, and was
wondering if anyone could
clear it up for me (like through one of your wonderful little essays,
Kim?).
I've read the manual, and understand that a long press is supposed to
undo the entire previous
layer (given memory limitations), and a short press is supposed to undo
the tail end starting
from where you press "undo".  But my EDP seems erratic in this function
-- often I have to
press undo twice or more to undo the previous layer, and often it
doesn't allow a long press --
the little undo light blinks on and off really quickly.  Also, it seems
to me that sometimes I have
to press undo while the previously recorded material I want to undo is
actually playing.  If I
press it elsewhere in the loop, nothing happens.
Comments, anyone?  thanks in advance.

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jim palmer wrote:

> ... running a looper between guitar and amp just doesn't cut it for me.

i assume this is because you want to be able to select the amp sound (or the looper) rather
than always have it in the signal chain?

how about using a mixer for this instead?

i'd love to get more info from those on the list with what they consider successful
instrument/mic/mixer/effects/amp (not nec. in that order) signal chains; both for live
situations and recording. i know this topic has come up in the past, but i need another fix
:-)

lance g.




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Subject: Re: Where to buy Jewel cases in SF?
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matt davignon wrote:

> I need to obtain clear CD jewel cases by friday. Does anybody know of a
> place in SF or Oakland where I could go to purchase these in a small bulk
> order (like 50)?
>
> I've had luck in the past with CD Duplication places that aren't bedroom-run
> affairs. There was one place around 4th and Howard a few years ago, but I
> can't seem to find them now.
>
> I'm looking for CLEAR CD jewel cases, as in the piece that the CD itself
> rests on is as clear as the rest of the case.

matt,

i assume you've tried online. i suppose at this point it'd have to be a rush on
the order and the shipping, but it can probably be done...


www.xdr2.com/CD-Jewel.htm

lance g.


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I've seen them fairly inexpensive at CompUSA

matt davignon wrote:

> I need to obtain clear CD jewel cases by friday. Does anybody know of a
> place in SF or Oakland where I could go to purchase these in a small bulk
> order (like 50)?
>
> I've had luck in the past with CD Duplication places that aren't bedroom-run
> affairs. There was one place around 4th and Howard a few years ago, but I
> can't seem to find them now.
>
> I'm looking for CLEAR CD jewel cases, as in the piece that the CD itself
> rests on is as clear as the rest of the case.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Matt
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 18:08:15 2001
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Subject: I have to do it again...T-Shirts:
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Greetings Folks,

   Because the USPS has failed to make a delivery in Italy,
   I am forced to reprint 2 Looper shirts. Since its not the
   printers fault this time,  he isnt  very happy about
   the prospect of doing a run of only 2 shirts.

   Therefore I am taking orders for anyone who might
   have had regrets about not ordering one before.

  The ordering info is still at the loopers delight page:
      http://www.loopersdelight.com/shirts/shirt-0ct2001.html
  But Kim may be taking it down soon...  Or contact me (off-list).

  If you are interested, it will really help us out.  If I can get
  an order for 10 shirts, the printer will honor the previous
  pricing.

Thanks guys!

-jas  (dimmo@dimbulb.org)
Albuquerque

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 18:25:58 2001
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Yes, I've been having a problem like that too, and the Fonzie fix seems
to work well.  SMACK...Ehhhh.

After being on for a while, my EDP freaks out, loses its loop if it has
one going, and then gives me a jibberish readout on the display
(sometimes 666), accompanied by unpleasant, loud noises.  After I smack
it and go through a power cycle, it seems to stay fixed as long as the
unit stays on.

Please let us know if re-seating the SIMMS works for you.

-Hans

>     ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Re: EDP Question
> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:16:32 -0500
> From: Steve Sandberg <stevesandberg@earthlink.net>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> 
>      I had a similar problem once -- it turned out to be a loose
>      Simm chip.  Eventually, I had to open up the unit and put
>      the chip in solidly (actually, I had someone else do it but
>      it seemed really simple).  The short term fix, though, was
>      to give it a solid smack on the chassis!
> 
>     ---------------------------------------------------------------

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 18:26:23 2001
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Subject: intelligent
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"....sorry, i missed the beginning of the thread:
i don't really use 'intelligent' pitch-shifting"

Ahhhhh me too.
In fact I dont use intelligent anything, including myself...

Errrm Sorry... Could not resist...

Olivier Malhomme

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 18:34:46 2001
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Subject: Re: Pitch Shifting
From: Allan Hoeltje <ahoeltje@best.com>
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My TC G-Force is awful at intelligent pitch shifting as well.  (Same goes
for the FireworX.)  Makes me wonder why a manufacturer would include a
feature so bad in a box that costs so much.  However, the single and dual
fixed pitch shifting is pretty good.  Someday I will need to take out a
second mortgage on the house so I can buy an Eventide.  :-(

-Allan


on 12/11/01 6:01 PM, Clifford@BienAppraisers at res0koq3@verizon.net wrote:

> I would actually be interested in an overall opinion myself- was interested
> in it with the low price it is at- not to mention the pitch shifting on my
> TC M-One is awful.
> 
>>> Is there a unit below Eventide price that does intelligent
>>> pitch shifting, that's still in production?

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 18:42:33 2001
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hello more knowledgable list folk,

can someone tell me if a boss ev-5 qualifies as a cv pedal? if not, what
does?

thanks.

your in ignorance,

stig


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<P><FONT SIZE=2>hello more knowledgable list folk,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>can someone tell me if a boss ev-5 qualifies as a cv pedal? if not, what does?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>thanks.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>your in ignorance,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>stig</FONT>
</P>

<CODE><FONT SIZE=3><BR>
<BR>
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Subject: Re: dumb question
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:50:33 -0800
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dumb questionI'm in ignorance? I thought I was in L.A.? Am I missing =
something? Carter for president!

Om
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Liebig, Steuart A.=20
  To: 'Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com'=20
  Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 3:10 PM
  Subject: dumb question


  hello more knowledgable list folk,=20

  can someone tell me if a boss ev-5 qualifies as a cv pedal? if not, =
what does?=20

  thanks.=20

  your in ignorance,=20

  stig=20



  Confidentiality Warning: This e-mail contains information intended =
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return e-mail. Thank you.


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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I'm in ignorance? I thought I was in L.A.? Am I =
missing=20
something? Carter for president!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Om</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
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  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DSteuart.Liebig@maritz.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:Steuart.Liebig@maritz.com">Liebig, Steuart A.</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:'Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com'">'Loopers-Delight@lo=
opers-delight.com'</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 12, =
2001 3:10=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> dumb question</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>hello more knowledgable list folk,</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>can someone tell me if a boss ev-5 qualifies as a cv =
pedal? if=20
  not, what does?</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>thanks.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>your in ignorance,</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>stig</FONT> </P><CODE><FONT size=3D3><BR><BR><FONT=20
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computer=20
  system that may occur while using data contained in, or transmitted =
with, this=20
  e-mail. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately =
notify=20
  us by return e-mail. Thank=20
you.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></CODE></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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Subject: Re: Handsonic
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:55:50 -0500
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Tom,

I liked the Handsonic just fine.  I enjoyed playing it on gigs and messing 
around with it at home.  I sold it to a very musically talented friend who 
needed it more than I did.

The cool thing about the KARMA is not only is there a mailing list for it, 
but its creator, Stephen Kaye, is a regular on that list and seems to be 
pretty accessible as far as answering questions.  He does a far better job 
than Korg's entire support department.

Paolo

>Paolo....a question please....What don't you like about the Handsonic?
>
>and a comment....The Karma is "ridiculous". I just got one and absolutely
>love it.  but I'm still saving up for a G4 Titanium Powerbook
>tr
>
>From: "Paolo Valladolid" <phv40@hotmail.com>
>Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 20:08:32 -0500
>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>Subject: Re: Wave Digital's new portable PC
>
>Sounds like a familiar argument. I have lost it myself a few times (like
>when I bought a Handsonic on impulse). :)
>
>I still use my lowly DL4 for looping right now.  I think for me the 
>hardware
>looper plus a phrase sampler would be a more reliable solution as an 
>upgrade
>over the DL4.  I know Wave Digital is trying to sell their little
>GameCube-like box to Mac users as a looping box, but Mac users can get both
>an EDP and a Repeater for that price.  :)
>
>I use a similar reasoning on my internal debate over a Mac laptop+Max/MSP
>vs. Korg KARMA.
>
>Paolo
>
> >BTW, I'm not arguing just for the sake of arguing, this is also an 
>internal
> >debate with my inner geek who keeps repeating the mantra "but it's SOOO
> >COOOL!"
> >
> >     Kevin
>
>


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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 19:35:34 2001
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As you shop for one, also consider the Yamaha DG series (the rackmount unit 
and the Stomp floor pedal) and the Boss GT6.  Not because I might be 
beholden to either company, but because they haven't been mentioned and you 
probably want to try the widest range of products that you can.

Paolo

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 19:39:21 2001
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Well, saturated/distorted guitar sounds are a very, very subjective thing 
and generally everybody should go ahead and use what gives good results to 
his/her ear, period. But I am a little alergic to these amp simulators 
because they are promissing you something they will never be able to live 
up to. One of the most important factors for a Marshall sound is the 4x12" 
cab with Celestions. There is no way on earth that you can duplicate this 
in a digital bean shaped box, it's physically impossible.

The whole thing reminds me of the fact that people got so used to the taste 
of canned pineaple over time that a wide majority of people in a test found 
freshly squeezed pineable juice 'artificial tasting' as opposed to canned 
juice. Beware of the brainwash, guys! 

That said I have to admit that a) I have used sansamp pedals with fair 
results myself (the TriOD, for example, has a nice 'british' and a horrible 
'tweed' sound in it), b) that Centara amp I mentioned seems to do a good 
job (but as I said, it is a big, heavy and expensive stereo 2x12" amp), c) 
I have the tried Line 6 stuff on three or four occasions and almost always 
found them terrible sounding. I have to work with rented or borrowed stuff 
occasionally and even with some goofy Boss pedals and a Twin with Sovtech 
tubes I'd manage to get by I think, but the Pod even has a latency 
problem...almost like a Midi-guitar. Again, given time one might be able to 
get more out of them, esp. in the studio. I have trouble with those soft 
knobs that turn without knowing when they dial in etc. 

TO GET BACK OT: I just played a Solo gig in a not-too-small club with two 
little 6V6 tube amps as an experiment, one '62 Fender and one '59 Gibson 
and put my modified G-force and EDP between the overdrive pedal (Baby Blue 
OD) and amps..........the tone was so phantastic (to my ears) it made me 
literally scream. I played a festival for classical guitar music earlier 
with the Gibson and an old Bassman amp a got congratulated for my great 
tone by prominent classical guitarists and boroque lute players. Then 
again, recording a great amp sound is another story, who knows what we will 
beusing ten years from now :-)
andreas  

> i have to second this.
> i also have the pod (v 1) and though i have not fully explored the 
> possibilities,
> i think manual mode allows for some nice sounds.
> i don't like the presets much at all.
> the emulations are just ok but are much easier than hauling several amps 
> to a gig.
> once the guitar is buried in the mix by a drums and vocals sound guy, they
> are probably indistinguishable from the real thing anyway...
> 
> my only problem with this box is that you can't really overdrive it like 
> a real tube amp.
> you can kind of fake it with the controls, but you have to think 
> differently.
> (you can't just throw a tube screamer in front of it and crank the level)
> 
> i think it is a great looper tool, because you can loop the amp sound 
> without
> having to mike it.  running a looper between guitar and amp just doesn't 
> cut it for me.
> 
> > Hi Andreas. Have you really ever tried a pod??? Or some line6 products? 
> Or
> > have you only heard the preset sounds???
> > Having had and used some marshalls, fenders and laneys I find that the
> > emulations in the pods are really good (certainly you have to use it 
> with
> > some good power amp or pa system, not in front of a guitar amp or on a
> > multimedia desktop system)...but I skipped completelly the presets 
> (those
> > really suck), I use it in manual mode, and create my sounds from 
> scratch.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 20:01:37 2001
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From: jim palmer <jimp@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Pod
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more like wanting to change the "amp" sound without effecting the existing loop and
also wanting to loop other things than guitar...

i am using a mixer to make this happen.

i am in the process of making a rig to gig with, so my signal chain is in flux,
but here is my thinking at the moment:
    1 - guitar (or bass or trumpet)
    2 - pedal board (including pod)
    3 - parallel connection to alesis 12r mixer (out to mains) and 
         kawai mx8-sr (to edp and repeater and later probably to kyma as well)

    also feeding mixers: voice, congas, bass.
    
    this setup will allow me to easily select any channel to send to loopers
    as well as allow a separate mix of those channels.
    i didn't like the idea of using a mixer with extra aux sends because
    you can't grab several rotary pots at once and you don't get a good
    graphical representation of what's in the mix.


> jim palmer wrote:
> 
> > ... running a looper between guitar and amp just doesn't cut it for me.
> 
> i assume this is because you want to be able to select the amp sound (or the looper) rather
> than always have it in the signal chain?
> 
> how about using a mixer for this instead?
> 
> i'd love to get more info from those on the list with what they consider successful
> instrument/mic/mixer/effects/amp (not nec. in that order) signal chains; both for live
> situations and recording. i know this topic has come up in the past, but i need another fix
> :-)
> 
> lance g.
> 
> 
> 
> 

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yes cliff, you've missed plenty . . . but we're not telling . . .
 
stig

 
I'm in ignorance? I thought I was in L.A.? Am I missing something? Carter
for president!
 
Om

 



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<TITLE>dumb question</TITLE>

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<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=043282900-13122001>yes 
cliff, you've missed plenty . . . but we're not telling . . 
.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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class=043282900-13122001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=043282900-13122001>stig</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
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  <DIV><FONT size=2>I'm in ignorance? I thought I was in L.A.? Am I missing 
  something? Carter for president!</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=2>Om</FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE 
  style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"><CODE><FONT 
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 20:08:13 2001
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Subject: RE: EDP Question
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Hey, cool! I've got the 666 display before too!

Dave Eichenberger 
http://www.hazardfactor.com
 

 
> After being on for a while, my EDP freaks out, loses its loop 
> if it has one going, and then gives me a jibberish readout on 
> the display (sometimes 666),  

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 20:24:46 2001
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:46:07 -0800
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>I have to work with rented or borrowed stuff
>occasionally and even with some goofy Boss pedals and a Twin with Sovtech
>tubes I'd manage to get by I think

some of us just have to get by with our amp modellers.  however, if 
you can find me a good condition original echoplex and space echo...

maybe i'll trade you for my dl4.

do you have anything online, where i can hear what you do?  i'm not 
trying to be too sarcastic...i just have a hard time with this "oh my 
god, that stuff totally sucks".  if it blows that hard, why are they 
showing up in professional player's rigs?  are they as tone deaf as i 
am, digging on the fact that i can get a pretty kick ass sound 
without turning an amp up to saturation point and rattling the walls?

a marshall (4x12 celestion's and all) can sound like shit at bedroom 
volumes....a POD/Flextone can sound like shit at club volumes, if not 
tweaked for such use.

rich

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Subject: Re: Where to buy Jewel cases in SF?
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>I need to obtain clear CD jewel cases by friday. Does anybody know of a
>place in SF or Oakland where I could go to purchase these in a small bulk
>order (like 50)?
>

I believe I've seen these for sale -- even the clear ones you're talking
about -- at my local Staples office supply store.
---
* just-john@just-john.com  http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml *

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Subject: Re: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V01 #717
From: Allan Hoeltje <ahoeltje@best.com>
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What is a "modified G-force"?  Have you actually opened it up and tweeked
the insides?

-Allan


on 12/12/01 4:09 PM, A.Willers at A.Willers@t-online.de wrote:

> ...
> TO GET BACK OT: I just played a Solo gig in a not-too-small club with two
> little 6V6 tube amps as an experiment, one '62 Fender and one '59 Gibson
> and put my modified G-force and EDP between the overdrive pedal

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   Hello,
   I'm looking at a similar set-up to Jim Palmer's.
   With(insert amp simulator of choice here) as the
   main signal generator, going into a Passac unity 8
   mixer, from there I can send signals to all the
   various effects units and looping devices in my
   rack. I'm trying to cut down the "firepower" I
   have to carry around. Most clubs in town are not
   too fond of Caspar Brotzman level "music/noise".
   (a Mesa Triple Wrecktifier through 2 Recto 4x12
   bottoms and the effects through 2 Carvin 4x12's)
   Thanks for the info!
   Sincerely,
   Chris Olden


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 21:40:11 2001
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From: Nemoguitt@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:08:29 EST
Subject: intelligent pitch shift
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what is this?.....and the only box that can do it is the eventide billion 
dollar thingie.....i think just about every box i have does some sort of 
"pitch shifting" and when i smack them all together they cause a big 
noise.....intelligent? i dont know, thats why i ask, what is ips.....:)m

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 22:54:27 2001
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:20:17 -0500
Subject: Re:EDP Undo
From: Steve Sandberg <stevesandberg@earthlink.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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Thanks, Matthias -- looking forward to Loop 4.  Also, I agree with Mountain
Man (see below).


One of the things that would make undo more usable for me would be
having the short press be the "undo everything."


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<HTML>
<HEAD>
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<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"4">Thanks, Matthias -- looking forward to Loop 4. &=
nbsp;Also, I agree with Mountain Man (see below).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF">One of the things that would make undo more usable fo=
r me would be<BR>
</FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"4"><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF">having the =
short press be the &quot;undo everything.&quot;<BR>
</FONT></FONT>
</BODY>
</HTML>


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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 22:58:17 2001
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Subject: Re: intelligent pitch shift
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Simple definition:
Intelligent pitch-shifting is when your pitch-shifting device can harmonize 
to the musical scale (not just the notes) of the progression you are 
playing.


>From: Nemoguitt@aol.com
>Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>Subject: intelligent pitch shift
>Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:08:29 EST
>
>what is this?.....and the only box that can do it is the eventide billion
>dollar thingie.....i think just about every box i have does some sort of
>"pitch shifting" and when i smack them all together they cause a big
>noise.....intelligent? i dont know, thats why i ask, what is ips.....:)m
>




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 12 23:08:59 2001
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Subject: RE: intelligent pitch shift (gettin' kinda OT)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:38:20 -0800
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IPS-33B was too smart for me--and when I use the Vocalist, I like to send it
note on info, so it doesn't try to figure out what I'm doing.  The GT-3's
got an intelligent harmonizer mode, just send it the root--I use it almost
not at all (the sound is only OK).
BTW, does anybody know the longest delay time on the (new) GT-6?  I assume
one can load the GT-3 patches into it with the proper PC patch
librarian/editor.  Mine is great for effects and amp sims into the looper
but the delay is only 1.8 seconds, not quite longer enough to use for
looping.
Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: Nemoguitt@aol.com [mailto:Nemoguitt@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 6:08 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: intelligent pitch shift


what is this?.....and the only box that can do it is the eventide billion
dollar thingie.....i think just about every box i have does some sort of
"pitch shifting" and when i smack them all together they cause a big
noise.....intelligent? i dont know, thats why i ask, what is ips.....:)m

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 01:12:32 2001
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From: "Michael LaMeyer" <m.lameyer@verizon.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <5F558325FAAED51190EF00508BBE34D0804801@mitorexch01.maritz.com> <009101c18367$caf357a0$0801a8c0@vz.dsl.genuity.net>
Subject: OT: dumb question - reminds one of idea
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if, for some ... strange.. reason, i'd ever be in a position to
film a documentary, it'd have to be a delightful, irreverent
jaunt into the subject matter of earthlings (yes, even ducks)
and their wonderfully entertaining reactions to the unknown at
any given point in time.  it'd almost certainly be entitled "The
History of Ignorance", and ideally be narrated by either John
Cleese (tried and true), or this dude who worked as a host at a
restaurant I worked at who was really funny, and kinda looked
like David Burne if he was perpetually surprised and earnest all
the time.  I would have to insist that commas be given at least
a modicum of attention, as their use is something that has
always confounded me.

sincerely,

mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Clifford@BienAppraisers" <res0koq3@verizon.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: dumb question


dumb questionI'm in ignorance? I thought I was in L.A.? Am I
missing something? Carter for president!

Om
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Liebig, Steuart A.
  To: 'Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com'
  Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 3:10 PM
  Subject: dumb question


  hello more knowledgable list folk,

  can someone tell me if a boss ev-5 qualifies as a cv pedal? if
not, what does?

  thanks.

  your in ignorance,

  stig



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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 01:35:32 2001
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At 6:10 PM -0500 12/12/01, Liebig, Steuart A. wrote:

>can someone tell me if a boss ev-5 qualifies as a cv pedal?

Yes.

"CV" = "control voltage"  The 1/4" TRS connector on the pedal's cable 
plugs into a jack which supplies a DC source voltage. This voltage is 
scaled by the potentiometer inside the pedal and is returned to the 
jack. Moving the pedal rotates the potentiometer and varies the 
resistance, and this in turn varies the voltage. The changes in this 
voltage value control the value of the assigned parameter, so we say 
that it is voltage controlled.

CV pedals are also known as Expression pedals. In general, they are 
NOT the same thing as volume pedals because they typically have 
linear pots rather than logarithmic pots.
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

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Subject: slightly OT: cables
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Hey everybody!  In regard to putting a rack system together; does cable 
quality make a huge difference?
In other words - should I bother investing in specially made sets of cable or 
would I be just as well off grabbing some HOSA cables from someplace like 
Musicians Friend? (I'll be using 1/4" stereo to dual 1/4" phone plugs to hook 
my stuff up to a Patchmate.)  Thanks!    -Todd

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Hey everybody! &nbsp;In regard to putting a rack system together; does cable quality make a huge difference?
<BR>In other words - should I bother investing in specially made sets of cable or would I be just as well off grabbing some HOSA cables from someplace like Musicians Friend? (I'll be using 1/4" stereo to dual 1/4" phone plugs to hook my stuff up to a Patchmate.) &nbsp;Thanks! &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;-Todd</FONT></HTML>

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> what is this?.....and the only box that can do it is the eventide bill
ion 
> dollar thingie.....

This is not true: Eclipse UltraHarmonizer(R) is sold well under $ 2000 
as all other barnds hi quality fx processors. If you think you can get 
really good pitch shifting for a couple of hundred bucks, with 
intelligent harmony features and correct formant shifting, avoiding 
mickey mouse sounds that ANY other pitch shifter has,....well you're 
offtrack. Quality has its price. Eventide is the best and it has a 
product now that is in the mid range of the market.
BTW TC and Lexicon flagship units are 2/4 times more expensive then 
Eventide Orville. No comparison about the power of it.
The feeling the market has is the opposite : "Eventide is expensive"
not true! The difference is that Lexicon and TC also make cheap boxes 
in the far east, Eventide doesn't. When we come to the real quality 
units, Eventide is less expensive and more powerful than TC and LExi.

greetings
Italo De Angelis


___________________________________________
EVENTIDE AUDIO CUSTOMERS SUPPORT
italo@eventide.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 03:24:58 2001
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 02:04:41 -0600
From: Craque <craque@metatronpress.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Craque: upcoming electronica loops in chicago
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Greetings fellow music makers and electronic artists...

Some shows of interest featuring live Craque, wherein I mix and meld
my particular theory of quantum synthesis, strange loops and studio tracks
into a delightful downtempo session of improvised electronica.

All shows are in Chicago, IL. More info about Craque is at http://craque.net

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Thursday, Dec. 13              9-11p - LIVE CRAQUE
Synesthesia @ Big Wig                  musical rocks and sundry objects
1551 W. Division
                                       followed by DJ Chris Widman
                                       of WLUW's Abstract Science


Saturday, Dec. 15              9-10p - LIVE CRAQUE
Heaven Gallery                         improvisation reigns supreme
1550 N. Milwaukee
                                       also featuring Sterling & Abeline


Thursday, Dec. 27              9-11p - LIVE CRAQUE
Synesthesia @ Big Wig                  Kosugi tribute by MRD
1551 W. Division
                                       Synesthesia Resident Showcase

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

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Subject: Re: slightly OT: cables
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A while back, I would have said no ... but I used George L's solderless
cables on my pedalboard recently and I really did notice a slight difference
... and I don't mean like Eric Johnson superhuman undetectable to the
typical human ear type hearing either ... just less noise.

But, I do not see any way to justify spending Monster Cable prices for
cables ...


----- Original Message -----
From: THusken@aol.com
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 10:53 PM
Subject: slightly OT: cables


Hey everybody!  In regard to putting a rack system together; does cable
quality make a huge difference?
In other words - should I bother investing in specially made sets of cable
or would I be just as well off grabbing some HOSA cables from someplace like
Musicians Friend? (I'll be using 1/4" stereo to dual 1/4" phone plugs to
hook my stuff up to a Patchmate.)  Thanks!    -Todd

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 04:12:29 2001
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:39:00 -0800 (PST)
From: John Tidwell <wedgehed@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: slightly OT: cables
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If you decide to buy Hosa, you might consider ordering
from Lentine's.

http://www.lentine.com/ca/cabhos.stm

When I bought my cables, their price was a lot better
than anyone else's.

John


--- THusken@aol.com wrote:
> Hey everybody!  In regard to putting a rack system
> together; does cable 
> quality make a huge difference?
> In other words - should I bother investing in
> specially made sets of cable or 
> would I be just as well off grabbing some HOSA
> cables from someplace like 
> Musicians Friend? (I'll be using 1/4" stereo to dual
> 1/4" phone plugs to hook 
> my stuff up to a Patchmate.)  Thanks!    -Todd
> 


=====
John Tidwell




__________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 04:37:14 2001
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please
           unsubscribe
                                   thankyou......

_________________________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 08:35:58 2001
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From: Claude Voit <c.voit@vtx.ch>
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Subject: GIG SPAM CH SeeWhat? (Claude Voit) in Geneva tonight
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salut 

just to let to know any Swiss loopers that I will be playing at "le chat
noir" in Carouge/Geneva tonight at 9 30 

this is a solo concert to sustain my just out album "SeeWhat?
Electro/Acoustic/ambient "
almost all the songs of the album will be revisited and tweaked intensly

there will be a free beer for any loopers delight dude showing up 

more infos at www.lechatnoir.ch

sorry I gadago

Claude

PS: there should be a live www streaming from the "live" page at
www.lechatnoir.ch (Central european time +1)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 09:48:22 2001
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:15:21 
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Hi all!
   I also have the Handsonic and wondered if there is a newsgroup or similar 
list as this for the Handsonic! Anyone know of one?

Weg


From: "Paolo Valladolid" <phv40@hotmail.com>
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Tom,

I liked the Handsonic just fine.  I enjoyed playing it on gigs and messing
around with it at home.  I sold it to a very musically talented friend who
needed it more than I did.

The cool thing about the KARMA is not only is there a mailing list for it,
but its creator, Stephen Kaye, is a regular on that list and seems to be
pretty accessible as far as answering questions.  He does a far better job
than Korg's entire support department.

Paolo

>Paolo....a question please....What don't you like about the Handsonic?
>
>and a comment....The Karma is "ridiculous". I just got one and absolutely
>love it.  but I'm still saving up for a G4 Titanium Powerbook
>tr
>
>From: "Paolo Valladolid" <phv40@hotmail.com>
>Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 20:08:32 -0500
>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>Subject: Re: Wave Digital's new portable PC
>
>Sounds like a familiar argument. I have lost it myself a few times (like
>when I bought a Handsonic on impulse). :)
>
>I still use my lowly DL4 for looping right now.  I think for me the
>hardware
>looper plus a phrase sampler would be a more reliable solution as an
>upgrade
>over the DL4.  I know Wave Digital is trying to sell their little
>GameCube-like box to Mac users as a looping box, but Mac users can get both
>an EDP and a Repeater for that price.  :)
>
>I use a similar reasoning on my internal debate over a Mac laptop+Max/MSP
>vs. Korg KARMA.
>
>Paolo
>
> >BTW, I'm not arguing just for the sake of arguing, this is also an
>internal
> >debate with my inner geek who keeps repeating the mantra "but it's SOOO
> >COOOL!"
> >
> >     Kevin
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 09:53:07 2001
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The Weg (06:15 AM 12.13.2001) wrote:

 >Hi all!
 >I also have the Handsonic and wondered if there is a newsgroup or similar 
list as this for the Handsonic! Anyone know of one?

Yeup!

   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/handsonic/


Mark

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i had great luck with george L cable. it can be made easily, it's cheap and
has the least capacatance (SP?) fo any cable.. it' solderless, too. you can
fix it with a screwdrive and nail clipper if you have to....



on 12/13/01 1:53 AM, THusken@aol.com at THusken@aol.com wrote:

Hey everybody!  In regard to putting a rack system together; does cable
quality make a huge difference?
In other words - should I bother investing in specially made sets of cable
or would I be just as well off grabbing some HOSA cables from someplace like
Musicians Friend? (I'll be using 1/4" stereo to dual 1/4" phone plugs to
hook my stuff up to a Patchmate.)  Thanks!    -Todd



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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: slightly OT: cables</TITLE>
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<BODY>
i had great luck with george L cable. it can be made easily, it's cheap and=
 has the least capacatance (SP?) fo any cable.. it' solderless, too. you can=
 fix it with a screwdrive and nail clipper if you have to....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
on 12/13/01 1:53 AM, THusken@aol.com at THusken@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2">Hey everybody! &nbsp;In regard to putting a rack=
 system together; does cable quality make a huge difference? <BR>
In other words - should I bother investing in specially made sets of cable =
or would I be just as well off grabbing some HOSA cables from someplace like=
 Musicians Friend? (I'll be using 1/4&quot; stereo to dual 1/4&quot; phone p=
lugs to hook my stuff up to a Patchmate.) &nbsp;Thanks! &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;-T=
odd</FONT> <BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</BODY>
</HTML>


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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 10:20:21 2001
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 06:40:28 -0800
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From: rich <rich@nuvisionsca.com>
Subject: Re: slightly OT: cables
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>i had great luck with george L cable. it can be made easily, it's 
>cheap and has the least capacatance (SP?) fo any cable.. it' 
>solderless, too. you can fix it with a screwdrive and nail clipper 
>if you have to....

i'm sure this has been posted before, but can someone put the url for 
these solderless cables up?

best,

rich

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In a message dated 12/13/01 2:42:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
italoop@libero.it writes:


> avoiding 
> mickey mouse sounds that ANY other pitch shifter has

is that why everything i play sounds like "i love you minnie!".....:)m

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 12/13/01 2:42:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, italoop@libero.it writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">avoiding <BR>
mickey mouse sounds that ANY other pitch shifter has</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
is that why everything i play sounds like "i love you minnie!".....:)m</FONT></HTML>

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From: Nemoguitt@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:57:08 EST
Subject: Re: GIG SPAM CH SeeWhat? (Claude Voit) in Geneva tonight
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go get them claude!.....wish i could be there.....:)m

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Subject: Re: GIG SPAM CH SeeWhat? (Claude Voit) in Geneva tonight
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Claude écrit:

>just to let to know any Swiss loopers that I will be playing at "le chat
>noir" in Carouge/Geneva tonight at 9 30


>there will be a free beer for any loopers delight dude showing up


I'd like to stop by, but I may have some trouble finding the place in the
dark since
"a la nuit, tous les chats sont noir"  ;-)

Good luck with the gig!



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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:21:25 +0100
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Subject: Re: GIG SPAM CH SeeWhat? (Claude Voit) in Geneva tonight
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salut Claude

j'eté ā Geneve le week-end dernier.
quel pitié...


I'm listening  with attention and interest your cd See What
and soon (this weekend?) I'll be ready to post a complete
review of it...

bonne chanche pour ce soir

bK

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From: "Pedro Felix" <PedroFelix@worldnet.att.net>
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Subject: Re: dumb question
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:29:54 -0600
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snips -
-----Original Message-----
From: Liebig, Steuart A. <Steuart.Liebig@maritz.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 6:00 PM
Subject: dumb question
>hello more knowledgable list folk,
>can someone tell me if a boss ev-5 qualifies as a cv pedal?
yes it does qualify as a cv pedal, although not a very good one IMO as the
sweep needs to be set. Thus, not a full range.

if not, what >does?
lots of pedals, but it depends on what gear you're using it with. Further,
what some companies refer to as cv controls for either real time control of
voltage (my fave) and/or feedback (me likes plenty also) varies. Whereas
some makers built cv input controls around the 0 to +5  variable, that is
not consistent across various gear. And +5 volts can also be pushed
sometimes which may depend on how old memory is. That is the case for some
of my looping tools and can also be tuned with some gear.
among the various pedals that I have used as cv pedals:
EV-5, not my fave at all and is hardly ever used
Yamaha black stereo plug model, cannot recall model number-very smooth,
still not full cv control for all units, very nice for feedback control on
EDP's
RFX 420P Stereo Volume Pan CV pedal, cv in and out, one of my sleeper pedals
Ernie Ball volume pedal mono version, very nice but again depends on gear
that you are using and with some makers of gear as I have found out works
well after another cv pedal when plugged into the amp plug, that's a
personal tip and trick. There are a lot of variations of this, many of which
I exploit daily.
Ensoniq CVP-1, still learning about this one and learning well
DOD FX-17, mmm, cannot say enough good things about this puppy, built like
tank, and more than likely the one cv pedal that you can use on just about
any piece of gear as the volume output can also be used to control cv, but
the range is shorther than when using the FX-17 as a cv pedal, can you set
both functions together? huhuhuh, I knew you'd be surprised (FZ)
In addition I have built and modded other pedals (broken gear is just
missaplied gear sometimes) and things (I guess I am protective about how I
do things) to control voltage in real time, somthing that is just not
happening much in music and let me tell you it's nice doing something
different.
Tap me off or on list if you'd like to know about how I apply these pedals.
Also would like to know how you are utilzing cv control in your rig.

>thanks.
>your in ignorance,
blissful no?
>stig
Pedro Felix - NYC 2001



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 11:48:51 2001
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From: Doug Lawrence <dlawren@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: slightly OT: cables
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http://www.georgels.com/

>> i had great luck with George L's cable. 

> i'm sure this has been posted before, but can someone put the url for 
> these solderless cables up?


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From: BILLYBUDDHA@webtv.net (William Mcallister)
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:18:14 -0800 (PST)
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Steve Roach
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I Talked to Steve Roach at  Borders books here in vegas last night, he
was here with his wife who just released a book. I asked him what he
uses for looping devices, he said he uses 3 jam man's, 1 repeater, 1
echopro(not echoplex?) and a line 6. Also there will be collaboration
album with him and Robert Fripp coming out soon. Sounds interesting.
BongoBill

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 12:11:26 2001
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Subject: Re: slightly OT: cables
From: mr monk <monk@fuse.net>
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here you go


 http://www.georgels.com/

also, since i also own a studio, i was able to become a "dealer" for the
cable, which just means you get a better price and i think the initial order
is a little higher. i think the cost goes down about 35%.  it was available
at gtr center for a while as well.


peace



monk



on 12/13/01 9:40 AM, rich at rich@nuvisionsca.com wrote:

>> i had great luck with george L cable. it can be made easily, it's
>> cheap and has the least capacatance (SP?) fo any cable.. it'
>> solderless, too. you can fix it with a screwdrive and nail clipper
>> if you have to....
> 
> i'm sure this has been posted before, but can someone put the url for
> these solderless cables up?
> 
> best,
> 
> rich
> 


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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:41:09 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Dave Trenkel <improv@peak.org>
Subject: Re: New loop-heavy Real Audio from forthcoming album
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>Greeting Loopsters!
>
>Just a quick note to say that I've added a couple of (rather long) tracks to
>my website for a forthcoming duo CD that I've just finished recording with
>pianist Jez Carr - all the music is freely improvised, or perhaps more
>accurately, unplanned and spontaneously composed. The only effect I'm using
>is a DL4 (and I think I've managed to squeeze some pretty varied sounds from
>one box!) and there's no post-processing going on, save the addition of a
>little reverb in pro-tools, and no editing.
>
>Hope you enjoy  them - the CD (with another 5 tracks) should be out
>Feb/March next year...
>
>head for the MP3/Real Audio page on my website... do let me know what you
>think...
>
Very nice stuff, Steve. You really do get a range of tones from the 
DL-4. The 2nd piece reminds me of Bill Evans. You both leave a lot of 
space, and the music has room to breathe. I look forward to the CD!
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Trenkel                                New and Improv Music
http://www.newandimprov.com         improv@peak.org
                 Now Available: Minus: Dark Lit
"This is music all-consuming in its beauty and power"
                                -Jake TenPas OSU Daily Barometer
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Subject: RE: GIG SPAM CH SeeWhat? (Claude Voit) in Geneva tonight
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:42:23 -0600
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Now that's funny. 
Any of you guys know Eddie Izzard? A great British comedian who uses a
lot of French in his punch lines/stories.

-----Original Message-----
From: James Pokorny [mailto:j.pokorny@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: 13 December 2001 15:10
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: GIG SPAM CH SeeWhat? (Claude Voit) in Geneva tonight


Claude écrit:

>just to let to know any Swiss loopers that I will be playing at "le
chat
>noir" in Carouge/Geneva tonight at 9 30


>there will be a free beer for any loopers delight dude showing up


I'd like to stop by, but I may have some trouble finding the place in
the
dark since
"a la nuit, tous les chats sont noir"  ;-)

Good luck with the gig!



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From: "Liebig, Steuart A." <Steuart.Liebig@maritz.com>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com'"
	 <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: slightly OT: cables
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:49:18 -0500
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another vote for george l cable. musicians friend had a pretty good deal on
the pedal board kit a while back. a nice savings over the list. might still
be worth checking out. sadly, to my knowledge, they don't so stereo cables.

stig

-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Lawrence [mailto:dlawren@pacbell.net]
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 12:02 AM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: slightly OT: cables


A while back, I would have said no ... but I used George L's solderless
cables on my pedalboard recently and I really did notice a slight difference
... and I don't mean like Eric Johnson superhuman undetectable to the
typical human ear type hearing either ... just less noise.

But, I do not see any way to justify spending Monster Cable prices for
cables ...




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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>another vote for george l cable. musicians friend had a p=
retty good deal on the pedal board kit a while back. a nice savings over th=
e list. might still be worth checking out. sadly, to my knowledge, they don=
't so stereo cables.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>stig</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Doug Lawrence [<A HREF=3D"mailto:dlawren@pacbell.n=
et">mailto:dlawren@pacbell.net</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 12:02 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: Re: slightly OT: cables</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>A while back, I would have said no ... but I used George =
L's solderless</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>cables on my pedalboard recently and I really did notice=
 a slight difference</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>... and I don't mean like Eric Johnson superhuman undete=
ctable to the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>typical human ear type hearing either ... just less nois=
e.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>But, I do not see any way to justify spending Monster Cab=
le prices for</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>cables ...</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<CODE><FONT SIZE=3D3><BR>
<BR>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 13:25:51 2001
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Thanks for the help/advice on CD cases.

I used to buy them at CompUSA on Market Street (in SF), but they doubled the 
prices within the last year (from $3 to $6 for a package of 10). Also, they 
carry a lot more slimline cases than regular jewel cases, and they don't 
have the clear ones. (Occasionally, they have a great deal on generic blank 
74 minute CD-R's - 50 for $20!)

That website that Lance sent looks like it's quite useful. (I don't have the 
URL with me at the moment.) They have all sorts of CD storage and blank 
media, and the prices look very good. Much better than the website I was 
ordering from!

On another note, I ordered 100 black CD jewel cases last year from 
Neato.com. In the shipment, the hinges were already broken on approximately 
25 of them when they arrived. I know jewel cases are delicate, but I had 
hoped they would've packaged them to accomodate for that.

Matt

_________________________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 13:53:37 2001
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Subject: Re: intelligent pitch shift
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 YO Nemoguitt! You might try to find a used  Digitech IPS33B, or its later
fancier brother called the DHP55, I believe. Those were the last instrument
related harmonizers that Digitech put out befor going completely into the
vocal processor market. I used the IPS33B for years, and though it does'nt
sound as good as an Eventide (what does?) it is a very powerfull
intelligent harmonizer capable of adding two diatonic harmonious to your
note and even the ability to create your own harmony assignments.
Counterpoint anyone? The DHP55 allowed for two additional harmonies and
better specs. Just think. its as if Skynrd added yet another guitar player.
You can pick these up on e-bay for not too many bones. I can give you more
details if you like about the IPS33B's performance. Caution, there is an
earlier model called the IPS33, with no B at the end. This is an inferior
sounding unit with less features and a numerical LCD display only. Stay
clear of this one if you can.
Happy Hunting'
Bill


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From: Bret <echoplex@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: intelligent pitch shift
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As far as guitar, the roland vg-8 virtual guitar system will do
intelligent pitch shifting.  You can even define unique harmonies per
note that don't match a specific scale.  That is, you can arbitrarily
assign any harmony note to any input note.
bret
--- Peter Underwood <skullyshakespeare@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Simple definition:
> Intelligent pitch-shifting is when your pitch-shifting device can
> harmonize 
> to the musical scale (not just the notes) of the progression you are 
> playing.
> 
> 
> >From: Nemoguitt@aol.com
> >Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> >To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> >Subject: intelligent pitch shift
> >Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:08:29 EST
> >
> >what is this?.....and the only box that can do it is the eventide
> billion
> >dollar thingie.....i think just about every box i have does some
> sort of
> >"pitch shifting" and when i smack them all together they cause a big
> >noise.....intelligent? i dont know, thats why i ask, what is
> ips.....:)m
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> 


__________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 14:06:27 2001
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Subject: Re: slightly OT: cables
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Is it true that Eric Johnson consulted the mysterious indian ruins at Chaco
Canyon to determine how he should arrange his pedal board? But seriously, I
love George L cable's and have been using them for years, however I don't
recommend them for long cable runs or high abuse situations. I'm not sure
who besides Marshall Electronics (not the amp or mike maker) distributes
Canare cable but you owe it to yourself to source out this superior
sounding Japanese cable. I can investigate if anyone is interested.
Bill Walker


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 16:11:15 2001
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:37:51 -0600
From: jim palmer <jimp@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: CV
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anybody really think this is off topic?
i would like to hear about your use of cv.

i have a paia 8 channel midi to cv converter i am using
to control my moogerfoogers (analog delay and ring modulator)
from two control pedals connected to a rocktron allaccess.
i modded the moogerfooger pedals to work with the rocktron,
but i would prefer to use ernie balls.  the problem is that they don't 
have a linear taper model.  i have considered trying out some 
different pots, but the setup is pretty difficult...

i have found that midi continuous controllers don't have enough
resolution for some things (ex. oscillator frequency over more than an octave)

>...
> Tap me off or on list if you'd like to know about how I apply these pedals.
> Also would like to know how you are utilzing cv control in your rig.
> 
> >thanks.
> >your in ignorance,
> blissful no?
> >stig
> Pedro Felix - NYC 2001
> 
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 16:50:50 2001
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Subject: Re: Pitch Shifting
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Allan wrote:
> My TC G-Force is awful at intelligent pitch shifting as well.  (Same goes
> for the FireworX.)  Makes me wonder why a manufacturer would include a
> feature so bad in a box that costs so much.  However, the single and dual
> fixed pitch shifting is pretty good.  Someday I will need to take out a
> second mortgage on the house so I can buy an Eventide.  :-(
I have both Fireworx and Eventide
I can say Fireworx is great to destroy (in a positive sense) loops.
Its pitch transposing isn't great at all, it's more like that kind of
"analog" pitch you find in some pedals.
But imho pitch transposing isn't eveytime for perfectly emulate the sound at
a different pitch, sometimes it's ok to make it just something else.

my two 0,002 cents
Luca

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Messaggio in formato MIME composto da pių parti.

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dumb questionStig wrote:

  >can someone tell me if a boss ev-5 qualifies as a cv pedal? if not, =
what does?=20

  I think yes, but I couldn't make it control all the midi range.

  I bought some cheap Bespeco pedals and changed their potentiometers =
with 100Kohms

  now they reach 99,7% of the midi range

  Luca=20


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>dumb question</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Stig wrote:</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>&gt;can someone tell me if a boss ev-5 qualifies as =
a cv=20
  pedal? if not, what does?</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I think yes, but I couldn't&nbsp;make =
it control=20
  all the midi range.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I bought some cheap Bespeco pedals and =
changed=20
  their potentiometers with 100Kohms</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>now they reach 99,7% of the midi =
range</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Luca</FONT>&nbsp;</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Subject: Re: intelligent pitch shift
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In a message dated 12/13/01 1:23:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
chillyb@cruzio.com writes:


> Happy Hunting'
> 

thanks bill.....:)m

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 12/13/01 1:23:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, chillyb@cruzio.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Happy Hunting'<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
thanks bill.....:)m</FONT></HTML>

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At 2:37 PM -0600 12/13/01, jim palmer wrote:
>anybody really think this is off topic?
>i would like to hear about your use of cv.

Back in the early 1980s I was touring with the singer Diamanda Galas, 
performing in quad with backing tapes and live effects processing. I 
had a pair of DDLs, a Harmonizer, and a digital reverb at the mixing 
console, and she sang into a collection of mics that were routed 
variously to the quad system and to the processors.

Since she wasn't too thrilled to surrender all control over the 
effects processing to me, we started developing ways for her to 
control the levels of the effects returns. At first we did this with 
just the reverb, by sending the reverb output signal down the 
microphone snake to the stage, through a pedal, and back to the 
mixer. This was problematic due to degradation of the signal and 
pickup of noise, so we had a VCA box made. This meant that just the 
supply voltage went down the snake, through the pedal, and back. No 
noise problems. Unfortunately this device wasn't too road-worthy, so 
when it came time to replace it we did a deluxe version.

I approached SMS, a synthesizer company in San Francisco known for 
their high-quality analog modules (As Chris Muir liked to say, "SMS - 
When you don't care how much it costs"). Using their 6-channel VCA 
circuit as a basis, we designed a 12-channel VCA array in a solid, 
2-rack box, along with a small remote that could be mounted on a 
microphone stand and operated by Diamanda as she performed. The 
remote had six knobs and six momentary buttons, each of which 
controlled a separate control voltage signal. As in the prior device, 
the common source voltage was sent up the mic snake, where it was 
split into twelve branches that were scaled or gated and then 
returned through the snake to the VCA box. This meant that 1 + 12 = 
13 control voltages were routed through the snake, and we used seven 
channels of the snake for this purpose. The VCA box and remote each 
had a short multi-cable with seven XLR connectors on the end, so the 
connections were both robust and standard, AND we didn't have to 
schlep our own proprietary snake around on tour. The VCA box also had 
some nifty features such as manual override, LED displays of the 
current CV levels, and very flexible patching of the control voltages 
(which allowed ganging together of multiple channels and inverse 
control inputs to allow crossfading).

The system worked flawlessly most of the time. The two notable 
exceptions came during what was perhaps our most over-the-top gig, in 
London during the winter of '85. We'd been performing throughout 
Holland and in Rome without a problem, but when we got to the venue 
in Deptford the VCA box simply did not work. Naturally I had no 
schematics, nor did I have much skill as a repair tech, but I popped 
the lid and peered inside. I didn't see anything obviously burnt out 
or flopping around loose, but I did notice a single IC, all alone on 
a daughter board sitting above the main VCA cards. "Hmmm" I thought, 
but closed up the unit in momentary despair. Fortunately the venue 
was within a quarter mile of one of the primary electronics repair 
shops used by major British bands, so we brought the box to them. 
Within an hour or two they had it working. Despite the lack of 
schematics, they had simply popped the lid, had seen the lonely IC, 
said "Hmmm," and and replaced it.

The second problem came during the performance itself, a 
collaboration between Diamanda and the percussion ensemble Test 
Department (sort of left-wing political punk predecessors to Stomp). 
Acting on her usual premise that more is always better, the diva had 
rented an additional four effects processors and wanted eight 
microphones. I did manage to convince her that more open mics meant 
more feedback, especially in the sound field produced by five 
muscular skinheads pounding on oil drums with axe handles and 
whalloping a huge boiler suspended by chains, all of which junkyard 
instruments were also miked. We pared it down to the usual four mics 
and set up the remote to act as a crossfade controller for pairs of 
channels on the VCA box. This worked fine in principal, but the 
microphone stand we mounted the remote on turned out to be a very 
flimsy boom stand and the boom (with remote) went flopping over in 
the middle of the performance. This was especially hilarious because 
Test Department's record company Some Bizzare [sic] had rented a 
remote truck to do a multichannel recording intended for album 
release. The subsequent mix session is an epic tale unto itself, but 
suffice to say the performance was unsuitable for commercial release.
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 18:41:48 2001
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Wow- cool story- thanks- some serious tech creation- would be interested in
hearing the results- thanks for writing.

Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Zvonar" <zvonar@zvonar.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: CV


> At 2:37 PM -0600 12/13/01, jim palmer wrote:
> >anybody really think this is off topic?
> >i would like to hear about your use of cv.
>
> Back in the early 1980s I was touring with the singer Diamanda Galas,
> performing in quad with backing tapes and live effects processing. I
> had a pair of DDLs, a Harmonizer, and a digital reverb at the mixing
> console, and she sang into a collection of mics that were routed
> variously to the quad system and to the processors.
>
> Since she wasn't too thrilled to surrender all control over the
> effects processing to me, we started developing ways for her to
> control the levels of the effects returns. At first we did this with
> just the reverb, by sending the reverb output signal down the
> microphone snake to the stage, through a pedal, and back to the
> mixer. This was problematic due to degradation of the signal and
> pickup of noise, so we had a VCA box made. This meant that just the
> supply voltage went down the snake, through the pedal, and back. No
> noise problems. Unfortunately this device wasn't too road-worthy, so
> when it came time to replace it we did a deluxe version.
>
> I approached SMS, a synthesizer company in San Francisco known for
> their high-quality analog modules (As Chris Muir liked to say, "SMS -
> When you don't care how much it costs"). Using their 6-channel VCA
> circuit as a basis, we designed a 12-channel VCA array in a solid,
> 2-rack box, along with a small remote that could be mounted on a
> microphone stand and operated by Diamanda as she performed. The
> remote had six knobs and six momentary buttons, each of which
> controlled a separate control voltage signal. As in the prior device,
> the common source voltage was sent up the mic snake, where it was
> split into twelve branches that were scaled or gated and then
> returned through the snake to the VCA box. This meant that 1 + 12 =
> 13 control voltages were routed through the snake, and we used seven
> channels of the snake for this purpose. The VCA box and remote each
> had a short multi-cable with seven XLR connectors on the end, so the
> connections were both robust and standard, AND we didn't have to
> schlep our own proprietary snake around on tour. The VCA box also had
> some nifty features such as manual override, LED displays of the
> current CV levels, and very flexible patching of the control voltages
> (which allowed ganging together of multiple channels and inverse
> control inputs to allow crossfading).
>
> The system worked flawlessly most of the time. The two notable
> exceptions came during what was perhaps our most over-the-top gig, in
> London during the winter of '85. We'd been performing throughout
> Holland and in Rome without a problem, but when we got to the venue
> in Deptford the VCA box simply did not work. Naturally I had no
> schematics, nor did I have much skill as a repair tech, but I popped
> the lid and peered inside. I didn't see anything obviously burnt out
> or flopping around loose, but I did notice a single IC, all alone on
> a daughter board sitting above the main VCA cards. "Hmmm" I thought,
> but closed up the unit in momentary despair. Fortunately the venue
> was within a quarter mile of one of the primary electronics repair
> shops used by major British bands, so we brought the box to them.
> Within an hour or two they had it working. Despite the lack of
> schematics, they had simply popped the lid, had seen the lonely IC,
> said "Hmmm," and and replaced it.
>
> The second problem came during the performance itself, a
> collaboration between Diamanda and the percussion ensemble Test
> Department (sort of left-wing political punk predecessors to Stomp).
> Acting on her usual premise that more is always better, the diva had
> rented an additional four effects processors and wanted eight
> microphones. I did manage to convince her that more open mics meant
> more feedback, especially in the sound field produced by five
> muscular skinheads pounding on oil drums with axe handles and
> whalloping a huge boiler suspended by chains, all of which junkyard
> instruments were also miked. We pared it down to the usual four mics
> and set up the remote to act as a crossfade controller for pairs of
> channels on the VCA box. This worked fine in principal, but the
> microphone stand we mounted the remote on turned out to be a very
> flimsy boom stand and the boom (with remote) went flopping over in
> the middle of the performance. This was especially hilarious because
> Test Department's record company Some Bizzare [sic] had rented a
> remote truck to do a multichannel recording intended for album
> release. The subsequent mix session is an epic tale unto itself, but
> suffice to say the performance was unsuitable for commercial release.
> --
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Richard Zvonar, PhD
> (818) 788-2202
> http://www.zvonar.com
> http://RZCybernetics.com
> http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
> http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 19:08:32 2001
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 17:36:23 -0600
From: jim palmer <jimp@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: CV
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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References: <01c1839f$93ccdd40$236f580c@Wroswick.uvm.edu>
 <009f01c18416$08fed570$080210ac@jpalmer>
 <p05100300b83ecf1f63c1@[63.195.210.50]>
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maybe what you had that time was UCV...



(uncontrol voltage)

>...
> release. The subsequent mix session is an epic tale unto itself, but 
> suffice to say the performance was unsuitable for commercial release.
> -- 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> Richard Zvonar, PhD


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 19:31:34 2001
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Hi Jim-

If you want to use Ernie Ball pedals, I can walk you through the
procedure for taking them apart and putting them back together again. 
The secret is to have two crochet hooks handy for dealing with the drive
string.  The rest is just standard three-handed assembly.

We use a TOCOS pot on our current models:

http://www.tocos.com/pcsg/RVQ20N2_RVQ24YN03_RV24YN04_P10.htm

RVQ24YN04 should do the trick; the resistance shouldn't matter for a CV
pedal.  Go with the slot end, 20mm long shaft.  We actually use a 27mm
long shaft, but we know this guy....  If you flip the brass pulley
end-for-end, a 20mm shaft should work just fine.  

Let me know if you need more info.

-Hans
hans@ernieball.com


> Subject: Re: CV
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 14:37:51 -0600
> From: jim palmer <jimp@pobox.com>
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> 
> anybody really think this is off topic?
> i would like to hear about your use of cv.
> 
> i have a paia 8 channel midi to cv converter i am using
> to control my moogerfoogers (analog delay and ring modulator)
> from two control pedals connected to a rocktron allaccess.
> i modded the moogerfooger pedals to work with the rocktron,
> but i would prefer to use ernie balls.  the problem is that they don't
> have a linear taper model.  i have considered trying out some
> different pots, but the setup is pretty difficult...

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 19:46:29 2001
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:01:26 -0800
Subject: Re: slightly OT: cables
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on 12/13/01 10:38 AM, William R. Walker, at chillyb@cruzio.com wrote:

>I'm not sure
> who besides Marshall Electronics (not the amp or mike maker) distributes
> Canare cable 


----Markertek (markertek.com) has canare & mogami cable, Neutrik &
switchcraft connectors.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 20:59:30 2001
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If you're using a pedal more than about three or four years old you'll
either need a pot with a 1/4" shaft, or else you can get a rebuild kit
through your Ernie Ball dealer which includes everything you'll need to
convert to metric (including an audio taper pot).

The volume pedal guru here recommends a Clarostat 2W linear pot from
Jameco Electronics (www.jameco.com) if you have an inch model.  Take
your pick:

https://www.jameco.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ExecMacro/Jameco/home.d2w/report?cgrfnbr=686&ctgys=503;518;686;

If you still want a TOCOS pot, check the dealer locator on the TOCOS
website.  Call your local rep, and they should be able to put you in
touch with somebody who can get it for you if they can't (or won't) sell
direct.

I have one of those Moogerfooger CV pedals, and I can see why you might
want something more robust.  Unfortunately, Ernie Ball don't have plans
to go into production on a dedicated CV pedal at this time.  Who uses
analog gear these days anyhow? ;^)

I do.  You do.  Many others on the LD list do.  What kind of market do
you think there would be for a +5V CV pedal?

Let me know when you're ready to do the hack, and I'll walk you through
it off-list.  I've copied this message to LD in case anyone else is
interested.

-Hans


jim palmer wrote:
> 
> yes i would like to know how to handle that string...
> 
> i have one of the older models and i replaced the pot
> in it several years ago, but never got it setup right.
> i think i need to replace the string in it as well...
> 
> i went looking for a place to buy the pot you suggested and have
> come up short.  do you know of a distributor that has it and
> will sell in small quantities?
> 
> thanks much!

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 21:26:42 2001
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    Does anybody know where to buy them?  Thanks, James

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 21:46:39 2001
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:14:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Aaron Schindler <aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: I have to do it again...T-Shirts:
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any deadline? i am interested but expect to be poor
until i get paid next week.
Aaron

--- Jason Fink <jfink@cabq.gov> wrote:
> Greetings Folks,
> 
>    Because the USPS has failed to make a delivery in
> Italy,
>    I am forced to reprint 2 Looper shirts. Since its
> not the
>    printers fault this time,  he isnt  very happy
> about
>    the prospect of doing a run of only 2 shirts.
> 
>    Therefore I am taking orders for anyone who might
>    have had regrets about not ordering one before.
> 
>   The ordering info is still at the loopers delight
> page:
>      
>
http://www.loopersdelight.com/shirts/shirt-0ct2001.html
>   But Kim may be taking it down soon...  Or contact
> me (off-list).
> 
>   If you are interested, it will really help us out.
>  If I can get
>   an order for 10 shirts, the printer will honor the
> previous
>   pricing.
> 
> Thanks guys!
> 
> -jas  (dimmo@dimbulb.org)
> Albuquerque
> 


__________________________________________________
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Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 21:50:22 2001
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-----Original Message-----
From: John Tidwell <wedgehed@yahoo.com>

>If you decide to buy Hosa, you might consider ordering
>from Lentine's.

Damn, John.  Are you living in the Greater Cleveland area?  Where abouts?  I
grew up in University Heights and I get to Chagrin Falls, Chesterland, and
Cleveland Heights a few times per year.

Cheers,

Bill        billfox@fast.net           http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic
===============================================================================
Host of EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show.  Thursdays at
11 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem and 93.9 FM in Easton and
Phillipsburg.  Email me if you wish to submit music for airplay consideration.
Radio Station Home Page: http://wdiyfm.org
Personal site: http://www.users.fast.net/~billfox
To subscribe to the EMUSIC on WDIY list, go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/emusic-wdiy and click on [Join This Group!]

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 21:50:48 2001
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:17:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Aaron Schindler <aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com>
Subject: ebow w/ baritone guitar
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Has anyone used an ebow on a baritone guitar? I am
pondering the purchase of a baritone but am curious
about string spacing and heaviness of strings
affecting my ability to use an ebow on it. 
Thanks.
Aaron

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 21:51:16 2001
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-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Allen <TALLEN1@satx.rr.com>

unsubscribe
===============
I guess Tim needs to get to the set of his next movie!  :-)

Foxy



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 13 22:22:33 2001
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Subject: Re: ebow w/ baritone guitar
From: mr monk <monk@fuse.net>
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lots of folks (including me) have used the ebow on bass ( they even made a
Bass Ebow for a brief time...) and i've used it on an old fender bass VI and
it works fine. you just have to get real close to the string and manually
position the ebow without letting it rest on the strings.


peace



monk




on 12/13/01 9:17 PM, Aaron Schindler at aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com wrote:

> Has anyone used an ebow on a baritone guitar? I am
> pondering the purchase of a baritone but am curious
> about string spacing and heaviness of strings
> affecting my ability to use an ebow on it.
> Thanks.
> Aaron
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
> 


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get it
you won't regret it. very good if you want to fill in as a bassist and 2nd
guitarrist at the same time
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aaron Schindler" <aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com>
To: "looper list" <loopers-delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 8:17 PM
Subject: ebow w/ baritone guitar


> Has anyone used an ebow on a baritone guitar? I am
> pondering the purchase of a baritone but am curious
> about string spacing and heaviness of strings
> affecting my ability to use an ebow on it.
> Thanks.
> Aaron
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
>

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Subject: Re: ebow w/ baritone guitar
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>Has anyone used an ebow on a baritone guitar? I am
>pondering the purchase of a baritone but am curious
>about string spacing and heaviness of strings
>affecting my ability to use an ebow on it.
>Thanks.
>Aaron

Works great on an instrument with even wider spacing and heavier strings 
than a baritone guitar - a bass guitar. :)

I'm not Michael Manring, but I really didn't have much trouble.  The only 
concern might be that the grooves of the E-Bow are optimally designed for 
regular guitar string spacing - and only for fast arpeggios at that, but it 
should be a very minor one.

Paolo

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

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Aaron,

In a message dated 12/13/01 6:19:57 PM, aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com writes:

>Has anyone used an ebow on a baritone guitar? I am
>pondering the purchase of a baritone but am curious
>about string spacing and heaviness of strings
>affecting my ability to use an ebow on it. 

There is no problem using an ebow and my Dano Baritone. The 
strings just aren't that much heavier (14, 18, 26, 44, 56, 68). 
And, in fact, the Ebow seems to actually work better on the 
slightly heavier strings. Also, the spacing on the Danelectro
in not much different from their regular guitars. As for other 
brands of baritone guitar, I have no idea.

Ted Killian

www.mp3.com/TedKillian
www.pfmentum.com/flux.html
www.mp3.com/Ophelia_Pancake

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Aaron Schindler" <aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com>


> Has anyone used an ebow on a baritone guitar? I am
> pondering the purchase of a baritone but am curious
> about string spacing and heaviness of strings
> affecting my ability to use an ebow on it.

I'd think it'd be a little more difficult, but not dramatically so to use an
ebow on a baritone. I quite effectively use my e-bow on the g-string of my
basses.


Simon Kean
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shallow End Swimming (Post-Rock) - http://mp3.com/shallowendswimming
Ulcerate (Alternative/Industrial) - http://mp3.com/ulcerate



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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 08:15:24 2001
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http://edroman.com/

he charges alot, though.

bobdog

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mr monk wrote:

> lots of folks (including me) have used the ebow on bass ( they even made a
> Bass Ebow for a brief time...)

Did the Bass Ebow actually make it into production?  I remember an ad in Guitar
Player saying they'd hired Boz from Bad Company as a consultant for a planned
Bass Ebow, but I never heard that it made it to market.  Somewhere I heard that
they ran into a problem with the string spacing on bass guitars not being as
standardized as on six strings so they couldn't get a good spacing for the guide
channels.

Does anyone here actually own a Bass Ebow?

Do you want to sell it? (-8

John McIntyre
Physics - Astronomy Domine Dept
Michigan State University
mcintyre@pa.msu.edu

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Subject: Re: ebow w/ baritone guitar
From: Mike Feeney <feeneymike@yahoo.com>
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        Daniel <daniel_c@vtr.net>
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    I've had my eye out for a bari guitar for awhile, but haven't actually
seen one anywhere.  Anyone know where I can find some online to check 'em
out?

    thanks,
    mike



on 12/14/01 1.19 AM, Daniel at daniel_c@vtr.net said somethin' like:

> get it
> you won't regret it. very good if you want to fill in as a bassist and 2nd
> guitarrist at the same time
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Aaron Schindler" <aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com>
> To: "looper list" <loopers-delight@annihilist.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 8:17 PM
> Subject: ebow w/ baritone guitar
> 
> 
>> Has anyone used an ebow on a baritone guitar? I am
>> pondering the purchase of a baritone but am curious
>> about string spacing and heaviness of strings
>> affecting my ability to use an ebow on it.
>> Thanks.
>> Aaron
>> 
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
>> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
>> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>> 
>> 


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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bobdog@pseudobuddha.com writes:
>http://edroman.com/
>he charges alot, though.
yeah..... ridiculous, even.
rather call gibson, or musicyo, or lorenzo german (of klein electric gtrs).
best,
dt / splattercell

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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:13:19 EST
Subject: Re: ebow w/ baritone guitar
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aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com writes:

>Has anyone used an ebow on a baritone guitar? I am
>pondering the purchase of a baritone but am curious
>about string spacing and heaviness of strings
>affecting my ability to use an ebow on it. 
works fine, here ---
my bari has standard strat. string-spacing, though.
best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 09:59:21 2001
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:26:31 -0500
Subject: Re: ebow w/ baritone guitar
From: Mike Feeney <feeneymike@yahoo.com>
To: "Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com" <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>,
        Mike Feeney <feeneymike@yahoo.com>, Daniel <daniel_c@vtr.net>
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    suppose I should have specified:  ACOUSTIC baritone?  =)

    mike



on 12/14/01 9.05 AM, Mike Feeney at feeneymike@yahoo.com said somethin'
like:

> 
> 
>   I've had my eye out for a bari guitar for awhile, but haven't actually
> seen one anywhere.  Anyone know where I can find some online to check 'em
> out?
> 
>   thanks,
>   mike
> 
> 
> 
> on 12/14/01 1.19 AM, Daniel at daniel_c@vtr.net said somethin' like:
> 
>> get it
>> you won't regret it. very good if you want to fill in as a bassist and 2nd
>> guitarrist at the same time
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Aaron Schindler" <aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com>
>> To: "looper list" <loopers-delight@annihilist.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 8:17 PM
>> Subject: ebow w/ baritone guitar
>> 
>> 
>>> Has anyone used an ebow on a baritone guitar? I am
>>> pondering the purchase of a baritone but am curious
>>> about string spacing and heaviness of strings
>>> affecting my ability to use an ebow on it.
>>> Thanks.
>>> Aaron
>>> 
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> Do You Yahoo!?
>>> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
>>> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
>>> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>>> 
>>> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 10:14:20 2001
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:37:46 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Tim Nelson <tnelson@metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: ebow w/ baritone guitar
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A couple of years ago, I e-mailed the eBow people asking if they'd ever
thought about putting out a Bass eBow, and was told they'd considered it,
but had never felt the potential demand warranted the costs associated with
the tooling and design since existing eBows actually do work with bass
already. I think I posted their reply to the list (this would have been
circa early-mid '99 or thereabouts)...

-t-

At 08:49 AM 12/14/01 -0500, you wrote:
>mr monk wrote:
>
>> lots of folks (including me) have used the ebow on bass ( they even made a
>> Bass Ebow for a brief time...)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 10:52:12 2001
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Subject: Re: ebow w/ baritone guitar
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:17:59 -0000
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"John McIntyre" <mcintyre@pa.msu.edu> put forth:
> mr monk wrote:
>
> > lots of folks (including me) have used the ebow on bass ( they even made
a
> > Bass Ebow for a brief time...)
>
> Did the Bass Ebow actually make it into production?  I remember an ad in
Guitar
> Player saying they'd hired Boz from Bad Company as a consultant for a
planned
> Bass Ebow, but I never heard that it made it to market.  Somewhere I heard
that
> they ran into a problem with the string spacing on bass guitars not being
as
> standardized as on six strings so they couldn't get a good spacing for the
guide
> channels.
>
> Does anyone here actually own a Bass Ebow?
>
> Do you want to sell it? (-8

I believe Steve Lawson has a bass E-Bow, or he's changed the red LED to a
blue one.

S. P. Goodman
*
http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - The Free Loop of the Week!
http://www.earthlight.net/Hidden_Track - Cartoons and Illustrations!


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From: Tim Nelson <tnelson@metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: ebow w/ baritone guitar
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Veillette-Citron makes several beautiful acoustic/electric baris
<http://www.veilletteguitars.com/>, Lowden makes 'em (or at least they DID;
I'm not sure if they currently have one), and there's the Alvarez AB2SB
(discontinued and replaced by the Yairi YB-1...)

-t-

At 09:26 AM 12/14/01 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>    suppose I should have specified:  ACOUSTIC baritone?  =)
>
>    mike

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Hi all,
   I own a black ebow with a red light, the first reissue and a newer one 
which is grey with a blue light.  The newer ebow's on/off switch allows for 
the old style pitch or flip the switch and get the harmonic.
It's very cool.  A friend of mine found an old silver ebow at a garage sale 
last year for $10.00, what a deal, it works perfectly.  I bought the newer 
ebow when the lid on the other broke.  I emailed ebow and they sent me a new 
lid.  What a great company!  Both ebows work on guitar or bass.  They are a 
little odd on the Vox 12 string but still adaptable.

Weg


From: "Stephen P. Goodman" <spgoodman@earthlight.net>
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"John McIntyre" <mcintyre@pa.msu.edu> put forth:
 > mr monk wrote:
 >
 > > lots of folks (including me) have used the ebow on bass ( they even 
made
a
 > > Bass Ebow for a brief time...)
 >
 > Did the Bass Ebow actually make it into production?  I remember an ad in
Guitar
 > Player saying they'd hired Boz from Bad Company as a consultant for a
planned
 > Bass Ebow, but I never heard that it made it to market.  Somewhere I 
heard
that
 > they ran into a problem with the string spacing on bass guitars not being
as
 > standardized as on six strings so they couldn't get a good spacing for 
the
guide
 > channels.
 >
 > Does anyone here actually own a Bass Ebow?
 >
 > Do you want to sell it? (-8

I believe Steve Lawson has a bass E-Bow, or he's changed the red LED to a
blue one.

S. P. Goodman
*
http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - The Free Loop of the Week!
http://www.earthlight.net/Hidden_Track - Cartoons and Illustrations!




_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
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Subject: Re: ebow w/ baritone guitar
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephen P. Goodman" <spgoodman@earthlight.net>

> I believe Steve Lawson has a bass E-Bow, or he's changed the red LED to a
> blue one.

My E-bow isn't a bass unit, but has the blue LED. 

Simon Kean
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 11:10:42 2001
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From: Tim Nelson <tnelson@metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: ebow w/ baritone guitar
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Ooops; I confused eBow's actual reply with second-hand info someone else
had gotten from them around the same time and relayed to me. Here's what
they actually told me:

I asked: >Would it be commercially viable for you guys to issue a
>larger, more powerful BASS EBow? You know, one where the spacing is correct
>for bass strings so we won't have to keep doing the balancing act you
>describe in your FAQ section.

And their two word reply was: >Some day.


At 09:37 AM 12/14/01 -0500, you wrote:
>A couple of years ago, I e-mailed the eBow people asking if they'd ever
>thought about putting out a Bass eBow, and was told they'd considered it,
>but had never felt the potential demand warranted the costs associated with
>the tooling and design since existing eBows actually do work with bass
>already. I think I posted their reply to the list (this would have been
>circa early-mid '99 or thereabouts)...
>
>-t-
>
>At 08:49 AM 12/14/01 -0500, you wrote:
>>mr monk wrote:
>>
>>> lots of folks (including me) have used the ebow on bass ( they even made a
>>> Bass Ebow for a brief time...)
>
>
>

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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Tim Nelson <tnelson@metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: ebow w/ baritone guitar
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At 08:49 AM 12/14/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Did the Bass Ebow actually make it into production?

Looking back over old e-mails, it seems that our very own BobDog (of
Pseudobuddha fame), having seen those same ads in GP, asked eBow about it
and was told that there HAD been a bass version, but that they'd only made
six of them. Collectors' item?

-t-

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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 11:00:40 -0500
Subject: Re: ebow w/ baritone guitar
From: mr monk <monk@fuse.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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wow.  i have an old guitar player magazine with an ad for the bass ebow in
it...wild....





on 12/14/01 10:34 AM, Tim Nelson at tnelson@metrocast.net wrote:

> Ooops; I confused eBow's actual reply with second-hand info someone else
> had gotten from them around the same time and relayed to me. Here's what
> they actually told me:
> 
> I asked: >Would it be commercially viable for you guys to issue a
>> larger, more powerful BASS EBow? You know, one where the spacing is correct
>> for bass strings so we won't have to keep doing the balancing act you
>> describe in your FAQ section.
> 
> And their two word reply was: >Some day.
> 
> 
> At 09:37 AM 12/14/01 -0500, you wrote:
>> A couple of years ago, I e-mailed the eBow people asking if they'd ever
>> thought about putting out a Bass eBow, and was told they'd considered it,
>> but had never felt the potential demand warranted the costs associated with
>> the tooling and design since existing eBows actually do work with bass
>> already. I think I posted their reply to the list (this would have been
>> circa early-mid '99 or thereabouts)...
>> 
>> -t-
>> 
>> At 08:49 AM 12/14/01 -0500, you wrote:
>>> mr monk wrote:
>>> 
>>>> lots of folks (including me) have used the ebow on bass ( they even made a
>>>> Bass Ebow for a brief time...)
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 12:03:40 2001
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Subject: Re: ebow w/ baritone guitar
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:30:36 -0000
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So THAT'S what it was!  And I thought that they'd always been just black.



> Hi all,
>    I own a black ebow with a red light, the first reissue and a newer one
> which is grey with a blue light.  The newer ebow's on/off switch allows
for
> the old style pitch or flip the switch and get the harmonic.
> It's very cool.  A friend of mine found an old silver ebow at a garage
sale
> last year for $10.00, what a deal, it works perfectly.  I bought the newer
> ebow when the lid on the other broke.  I emailed ebow and they sent me a
new
> lid.  What a great company!  Both ebows work on guitar or bass.  They are
a
> little odd on the Vox 12 string but still adaptable.
>
> Weg
>
>
> From: "Stephen P. Goodman" <spgoodman@earthlight.net>
> Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Subject: Re: ebow w/ baritone guitar
> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:17:59 -0000
> MIME-Version: 1.0
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> KAA12632;Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:19:08 -0500
> From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com Fri, 14 Dec 2001 07:26:34
> -0800
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> Organization: EarthLight Productions
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>
> "John McIntyre" <mcintyre@pa.msu.edu> put forth:
>  > mr monk wrote:
>  >
>  > > lots of folks (including me) have used the ebow on bass ( they even
> made
> a
>  > > Bass Ebow for a brief time...)
>  >
>  > Did the Bass Ebow actually make it into production?  I remember an ad
in
> Guitar
>  > Player saying they'd hired Boz from Bad Company as a consultant for a
> planned
>  > Bass Ebow, but I never heard that it made it to market.  Somewhere I
> heard
> that
>  > they ran into a problem with the string spacing on bass guitars not
being
> as
>  > standardized as on six strings so they couldn't get a good spacing for
> the
> guide
>  > channels.
>  >
>  > Does anyone here actually own a Bass Ebow?
>  >
>  > Do you want to sell it? (-8
>
> I believe Steve Lawson has a bass E-Bow, or he's changed the red LED to a
> blue one.
>
> S. P. Goodman
> *
> http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - The Free Loop of the Week!
> http://www.earthlight.net/Hidden_Track - Cartoons and Illustrations!
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 12:12:21 2001
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From: "Steve Lawson" <steve@steve-lawson.co.uk>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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Subject: Re: ebow w/ baritone guitar
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:41:55 -0000
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> > lots of folks (including me) have used the ebow on bass ( they even made a
> > Bass Ebow for a brief time...)
>
> Did the Bass Ebow actually make it into production?  I remember an ad in Guitar
> Player saying they'd hired Boz from Bad Company as a consultant for a planned
> Bass Ebow, but I never heard that it made it to market.  Somewhere I heard that
> they ran into a problem with the string spacing on bass guitars not being as
> standardized as on six strings so they couldn't get a good spacing for the guide
> channels.
>
> Does anyone here actually own a Bass Ebow?

To be honest, I've never understood the calls for a 'bass ebow' - what do you want it to do differently from the real EBow?
The Ebow as it stands now is PERFECT for bass! It doesn't do what it does on a guitar, but for me, what it does do is far
more useful. I'm guessing that's why there's no such thing as a bass ebow - the real one is already a bass ebow (especially
the Ebow +)

The guide channels work just fine for bass - you just don't sit it on the strings in quite the same way...

cheers

Steve
www.steve-lawson.co.uk

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 12:25:51 2001
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 <009f01c18416$08fed570$080210ac@jpalmer>
 <p05100300b83ecf1f63c1@[63.195.210.50]>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:44:52 -0800
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From: rich <rich@nuvisionsca.com>
Subject: Re: CV
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>
>Back in the early 1980s I was touring with the singer Diamanda Galas, lack of



>The second problem came during the performance itself, a 
>collaboration between Diamanda and the percussion ensemble Test 
>Department (sort of left-wing political punk predecessors to Stomp).

Richard, thanks for the cool story and techno gadgetry!  wow, playing 
with Test Department circa '85...at that time they were one of my 
absolute faves.  "the unacceptable face of freedom" remains in my cd 
collection and is still played...awesome record.

predecessors to stomp?  hahahaha...you're being generous...to stomp, that is.

just my humble opinion.

Diamanda scared me too much around that time, i must confess, and i 
never really looked into her work, with the exception of a great 
track she did on Barry Adamson's "Moss Side Story"....track 1 (and 
the scariest track on the record)

go figure.

anyways, thanks!

rich

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 12:38:54 2001
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Matt,

    I saw several boxes 'slim-line' clear cd cases in Virgin megastre on
market st

Jonathan

----- Original Message -----
From: "matt davignon" <mattdavignon@hotmail.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: RE: CD Cases


> Thanks for the help/advice on CD cases.
>
> I used to buy them at CompUSA on Market Street (in SF), but they doubled
the
> prices within the last year (from $3 to $6 for a package of 10). Also,
they
> carry a lot more slimline cases than regular jewel cases, and they don't
> have the clear ones. (Occasionally, they have a great deal on generic
blank
> 74 minute CD-R's - 50 for $20!)
>
> That website that Lance sent looks like it's quite useful. (I don't have
the
> URL with me at the moment.) They have all sorts of CD storage and blank
> media, and the prices look very good. Much better than the website I was
> ordering from!
>
> On another note, I ordered 100 black CD jewel cases last year from
> Neato.com. In the shipment, the hinges were already broken on
approximately
> 25 of them when they arrived. I know jewel cases are delicate, but I had
> hoped they would've packaged them to accomodate for that.
>
> Matt
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 13:02:19 2001
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At 8:44 AM -0800 12/14/01, rich wrote:

>Richard, thanks for the cool story and techno gadgetry!  wow, 
>playing with Test Department circa '85...at that time they were one 
>of my absolute faves.  "the unacceptable face of freedom" remains in 
>my cd collection and is still played...awesome record.

As a fan of Test Department you may appreciate knowing that they were 
a really great group of guys. I was in London for two weeks, staying 
at Some Bizzare founder Stevo's house, and I spent a good deal of 
time with Angus and the rest of the group. If you're interested, I 
can relate the story of the night the burglar alarm went off while we 
were alone in Stevo's house.


>Diamanda scared me too much around that time, i must confess

She scares a lot of people, especially former boyfriends and certain 
impressarios. I met her in 1978, lived with her briefly in '80, and 
worked with her until '85. I produced the backing tapes for a couple 
of pieces (heavy loopage on Panoptikon), and did two records. We 
toured in North America and Europe 1982-85.
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

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References: <B83ED389.3A56%monk@fuse.net> <3C1A0354.6BE443DF@pa.msu.edu> <001b01c184b2$9568c100$0201a8c0@stephen> <004c01c184b5$0694da10$1b86893e@simes>
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One must clearly be aware that the Ebow with the blue led sounds
dramaticly more digital than the red one (more analog and warm to me)
if you don't hear the difference then it really doesn't matter for you
which one you use

bit tired tonight

Claude





Simon Kean wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stephen P. Goodman" <spgoodman@earthlight.net>
> 
> > I believe Steve Lawson has a bass E-Bow, or he's changed the red LED to a
> > blue one.
> 
> My E-bow isn't a bass unit, but has the blue LED.
> 
> Simon Kean
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Shallow End Swimming (Post-Rock) - http://mp3.com/shallowendswimming
> Ulcerate (Alternative/Industrial) - http://mp3.com/ulcerate

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 13:21:01 2001
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:44:47 -0500
From: Dean Stiglitz <deknow@deknow.com>
Subject: re[2]: CV
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another, often overlooked source of cv is a headphone out (reciever, mixing board, microcassette, etc)...line level is generally too low to run a cv, but the headphone amp can almost always do the job (i like the headphone out of the tv myself, as you can see/hear the relationship between the lips moving and the mod.

deknow

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 13:29:20 2001
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I say go for it.

I've used it on acoustic and even mucked with it on a bass once.  It may
not have the same repsonse as the B string on a standard guitar, but
surely wouldn't bee too different than any of the wound strings.

-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron Schindler [mailto:aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 6:18 PM
To: looper list
Subject: ebow w/ baritone guitar


Has anyone used an ebow on a baritone guitar? I am
pondering the purchase of a baritone but am curious
about string spacing and heaviness of strings
affecting my ability to use an ebow on it. 
Thanks.
Aaron

__________________________________________________
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Dean Stiglitz (09:44 AM 12.14.2001) wrote:

 >another, often overlooked source of cv is a headphone out (reciever, mixing
 >board, microcassette, etc)...line level is generally too low to run a cv,
 >but the headphone amp can almost always do the job (i like the headphone out
 >of the tv myself, as you can see/hear the relationship between the lips
 >moving and the mod.

Be careful about overloading the amp... Driving a DC circuit like that can 
put a decent load on the amp.


In college (1979), we used to run an oscillator from a modular synth, run 
it straight into a large power amp, then run the speaker outputs straight 
into the (110v) AC motor that was driving the capstan on a tape deck. 
Playing a note on the modular's keyboard changed the frequency of the 
oscillator, which changed the speed of the capstan motor, which changed the 
pitch of what was recorded on the tape running through it.

It worked, but that amp really didn't care much for it. :)

Mark

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a query for the english brethren.

i'm wondering if any of you have heard of an effects manufacturer in th uk
by the name of chappertone  - - a guy named ben chapman, i believe. 

read a review of a pedal of his that sounds very interesting, but no web
address or other info.

if any of you have info on the fellow, please let me know. 

thanks.

yours in gear lust,

stig


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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>a query for the english brethren.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>i'm wondering if any of you have heard of an effects manu=
facturer in th uk by the name of chappertone&nbsp; - - a guy named ben chap=
man, i believe. </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>read a review of a pedal of his that sounds very interest=
ing, but no web address or other info.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>if any of you have info on the fellow, please let me know=
. </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>thanks.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>yours in gear lust,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>stig</FONT>
</P>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 14:11:33 2001
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:28:09 -0500
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From: Tim Nelson <tnelson@metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: ebow w/ baritone guitar
In-Reply-To: <3C1A37F7.588F77A7@vtx.ch>
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My eBow is the black re-issue with the red LED; I was under the impression
that the plus model (le bleu) has two modes, and that the
non-harmonic-enhanced mode is exactly the same as the previous eBow. Isn't it?

-t-

At 06:33 PM 12/14/01 +0100, a tired Claude wrote:
>One must clearly be aware that the Ebow with the blue led sounds
>dramaticly more digital than the red one (more analog and warm to me)
>if you don't hear the difference then it really doesn't matter for you
>which one you use

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Subject: noise makers for sale
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cleaning out the closets:


boss rps-10 (2 of) great for the adrian belew backwards sound (he has two of
them) and intellectually challenged ptich shifting

boss SG-1 slow gear. excellent condition. very rare. and sounds much better
(and works better ) than the chessy version in the DL-4...

electrix filter queen


electrix filter factory

alesis quadraverb

alesis 3630 stereo compressor

behringer autocom

yamaha mv 802- cool little two rack space line mixer with leds and you can
use a CV PEDAL!!!!



behringer  cybermix ( use it to automate your analog studio mixer (or if
tony moore wants this back...he can have it...)


make reasonable offers to me directly. buyer to pay actual shipping/boxing
charges.


 

monk@fuse.net


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Subject: Re: intelligent pitch shift -- digitech units
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I'm a bass player and I'm looking to use the either the Digitech IPS33B or
DHP55 just to get octave up/down ... possibly at the same time. Do they
handle 2 octaves up? Will they do the trick?

Also, anyone got any info on the Digitech BHM4 Bass Harmony Machine??

----- Original Message -----
From: "William R. Walker," <chillyb@cruzio.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: intelligent pitch shift


> YO Nemoguitt! You might try to find a used  Digitech IPS33B, or its later
> fancier brother called the DHP55, I believe. Those were the last
instrument
> related harmonizers that Digitech put out befor going completely into the
> vocal processor market. I used the IPS33B for years, and though it does'nt
> sound as good as an Eventide (what does?) it is a very powerfull
> intelligent harmonizer capable of adding two diatonic harmonious to your
> note and even the ability to create your own harmony assignments.
> Counterpoint anyone? The DHP55 allowed for two additional harmonies and
> better specs. Just think. its as if Skynrd added yet another guitar
player.
> You can pick these up on e-bay for not too many bones. I can give you more
> details if you like about the IPS33B's performance. Caution, there is an
> earlier model called the IPS33, with no B at the end. This is an inferior
> sounding unit with less features and a numerical LCD display only. Stay
> clear of this one if you can.
> Happy Hunting'
> Bill
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 14:38:51 2001
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/handsonic/
bret
--- The Weg <theweg@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all!
>    I also have the Handsonic and wondered if there is a newsgroup or
> similar 
> list as this for the Handsonic! Anyone know of one?

__________________________________________________
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At 1:35 PM -0500 12/14/01, Liebig, Steuart A. wrote:

>a guy named ben chapman

Didn't he play the Gill Man in the Creature from the Black Lagoon?
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

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Subject: Re: intelligent pitch shift 
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I wrote yesterday about the roland vg-8 pitch shift where you can
assign any arbitrary harmony note to any input note (12 tones).  

I tried this feature last night (user set harmony).  Yes, you can set
it up with any arbitrary relationship of input to harmony note, It may
be intelligent, but it isn't very accurate.  It didn't work very well
for me.
:(

I notice that if the harmony interval set for adjacent chromatic notes
is not the same, or very close to being the same interval, then the
accuracy of pitch shift on each unique semitone can be poor.  The
harmony note seems to be 'pulled' sharp or flat depending on the
harmony intervals set to the adjacent semi tones.  You can get some
wild and unusual sounds, however.

I rigged up an old damaged gk-2a pickup assembly so that I could run a
moog synth directly into my vg-8.  Running a random pitch sine wave
into the vg-8 was pretty cool, you can really hear what each of the
vg-8 models is doing in terms of distorting and processing the input
sound.  Playing random notes, while manualy randomizing the harmony
produced as it plays was also pretty fun.

I then ran a microphone into the vg-8.  My voice sounded like violins,
wow!  More experiments to follow.
bret






__________________________________________________
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your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
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Subject: Tonight! Field Effects featuring Loren Chasse, Quiet American, Matt Davignon
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 12:10:52 -0800
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Field Effects: a night of beauty made by the world

Friday, December 14

Door 8:00 pm, performance 8:30 pm sharp.

$6-10 sliding scale, no one turned away for lack of funds.

----> Event Description <-----------------------------------------------

The world makes music, remember to listen. The world makes movies,
remember to look.

Field Effects offers a night of field recording based performance.

Featuring sound artists:

Loren Chasse (SF)
     http://www.23five.org/lchasse/

Tape Recorder (Oakland)
     Matt Davignon's tape-based project, samples available at:
     http://www.mp3.com/field_recordings/

Quiet American (SF)
     http://www.quietamerican.org

And featuring projection by:

Keith Evans (Oakland)
      of silt (projection ensemble)

Carl Diehl (SF)
      Kinetic engineer travelling through time with a VCR.

Richard Holland (Madison, WI)
     West coast premier of his stunning "tiny movies"
     http://www.ponderance.org/holland/TinyMoviesMenu.html

Field Effects is a showcase of Bay Area artists interested in framing the
hidden beauty of the everyday world. Beauty on the surface, awaiting our
attention. Beauty that must be delicately extracted. And beauty in
potential, awaiting juxtaposition, collage, repetition and mutilation.

Field recordings are made out in the world, not the studio. Fair game:
machines, animals, weather, vehicles, buskers, hawkers, preachers,
objects, and the mad.

Seating on futons to encourage comfortable listening and viewing.

Out of respect for the onset of winter, hot drinks will be available.

----> Venue Info <------------------------------------------------------

964 Natoma
(between 10th and 11th, and Mission and Howard)
San Francisco, CA 94103

A few blocks from Civic Center BART.  One block from Market & Van Ness.

Bike parking inside.

Map at Mapquest:
http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?BFCat=&Pyt=Tmap&newFL=Use+Address+Below&addr=964+Natoma&csz=San+Francisco%2C+CA&Country=us&Get%A0Map=Get+Map



_________________________________________________________________
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i am not familiar with Test Department, but i met the players from 
the dallas production of stomp a few years ago
(different players in different productions, like any broadway show)
and found them to be extremely musical people...


> ...
> predecessors to stomp?  hahahaha...you're being generous...to stomp, that is.
> 
>...
> 
> rich
> 

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hi,

how much for the electrix filterqueen ?

joel


mr monk wrote:

> cleaning out the closets:
>
> boss rps-10 (2 of) great for the adrian belew backwards sound (he has two of
> them) and intellectually challenged ptich shifting
>
> boss SG-1 slow gear. excellent condition. very rare. and sounds much better
> (and works better ) than the chessy version in the DL-4...
>
> electrix filter queen
>
> electrix filter factory
>
> alesis quadraverb
>
> alesis 3630 stereo compressor
>
> behringer autocom
>
> yamaha mv 802- cool little two rack space line mixer with leds and you can
> use a CV PEDAL!!!!
>
> behringer  cybermix ( use it to automate your analog studio mixer (or if
> tony moore wants this back...he can have it...)
>
> make reasonable offers to me directly. buyer to pay actual shipping/boxing
> charges.
>
>
>
> monk@fuse.net


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 16:06:28 2001
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sorry, that was ment to be private

mr monk wrote:

> cleaning out the closets:
>
> boss rps-10 (2 of) great for the adrian belew backwards sound (he has two of
> them) and intellectually challenged ptich shifting
>
> boss SG-1 slow gear. excellent condition. very rare. and sounds much better
> (and works better ) than the chessy version in the DL-4...
>
> electrix filter queen
>
> electrix filter factory
>
> alesis quadraverb
>
> alesis 3630 stereo compressor
>
> behringer autocom
>
> yamaha mv 802- cool little two rack space line mixer with leds and you can
> use a CV PEDAL!!!!
>
> behringer  cybermix ( use it to automate your analog studio mixer (or if
> tony moore wants this back...he can have it...)
>
> make reasonable offers to me directly. buyer to pay actual shipping/boxing
> charges.
>
>
>
> monk@fuse.net


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 16:36:05 2001
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From: mr monk <monk@fuse.net>
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$150?



monk




on 12/14/01 3:24 PM, mango at j.kolling@chello.nl wrote:

> hi,
> 
> how much for the electrix filterqueen ?
> 
> joel
> 
> 
> mr monk wrote:
> 
>> cleaning out the closets:
>> 
>> boss rps-10 (2 of) great for the adrian belew backwards sound (he has two of
>> them) and intellectually challenged ptich shifting
>> 
>> boss SG-1 slow gear. excellent condition. very rare. and sounds much better
>> (and works better ) than the chessy version in the DL-4...
>> 
>> electrix filter queen
>> 
>> electrix filter factory
>> 
>> alesis quadraverb
>> 
>> alesis 3630 stereo compressor
>> 
>> behringer autocom
>> 
>> yamaha mv 802- cool little two rack space line mixer with leds and you can
>> use a CV PEDAL!!!!
>> 
>> behringer  cybermix ( use it to automate your analog studio mixer (or if
>> tony moore wants this back...he can have it...)
>> 
>> make reasonable offers to me directly. buyer to pay actual shipping/boxing
>> charges.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> monk@fuse.net
> 
> 


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 16:51:22 2001
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From: AKASHMUSIC@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:14:16 EST
Subject: GIG SPAM:Philly: Dec 17th: "An AKASH Holiday Special"
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Hey Guys,

Just in time for the Holidays...*AN OBZINE Sponsored Event! 
                   (www.obzineonline.com) 

Join With AKASH (www.akashmusic.com), "Philly's 
Ultimate-Erotic-Exhibitionists"
+ The Infamous Pyro - Rev. Johnny Hell, The Masterful Elliott Levin & many 
other "special guests" who have teamed up & joined with AKASH as we present 
our "Naughty or Nice - Holiday Special".

Look for the arrival of Santa's "Favorite Dominatrix" and her "best little 
helpers" wearing fishnet-stockings and not much else.

There will be plenty of loops a poppin' and tons of psyched out "layers" of 
darkly drawn sound for this Gig. 

But Definitely DO Expect to see Multiple-Dark-Interactive-Performances & 
Non-Stop GoGo happening on 2 floors!

*ALSO Featuring, The Infamous DJ Friggster from Psydde Delicious' Fast Cheap 
& Out of Control (www.fastcheapparty.com)...Fashions provided by Tattooed 
Kingpin
(www.tattooedkingpin.com) 

PARTY STARTS: MONDAY: Dec. 17th, 9pm-2am @ ABILENE - 429 South Street 

DJ Friggster will be spinning a mix of Trippy & Experimental Darkwave seguing 
into 80's New Wave, Porno Soundtracks and raw Burlesque-GoGo-Core.

& yeah...It's on a Monday (so we know your not doing anything better!) and 
it's cheap $5 @ the door, plus there will be tons of parking on South street. 

AKASH takes the stage @ Midnite Sharp!

So Come & see the Best Go-Go Girls in Philly, Come see the 100% Naked & 
Bodypainted Boys & Girls, Come to Drink, Come to Dance, But mainly come out & 
have fun & be seen or just watch!

"Remember To Always Kill Your Expectations" 
BUY THE NEW AKASH CD:
THE GIFT OF PUNISHMENT
www.akashmusic.com 
www.mp3.com/akashmusic 

*ALSO NOTE: DEC 29th, AKASH performs 
@ Behind The Scenes 
(BTS is Philly's Best and Largest - Private BDSM Club ), Doors: 9pm-3am\
Go to: www.phillyfetish.com for more detailed info on BTS memberships, Rates 
& club location, policies, etc. 

Seeya there :) 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 17:03:59 2001
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Cc: <stickwire-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>, <davidtorn@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: unne muscien du chili
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 18:29:27 -0600
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ok lads time to do good by me. Any mssr or mme. musician living in France
please contact my guitarist friend just arrived from Chile called Gato
sepulveda. he's quite a good torn styled guitarist and loves to play what he
calls "sic" WOrld music. (either read that as Michael Brook or Alain Bashung
or My Bloody Valentine, I dunno).

anyhow loopers, electric upright bassists, chapman stick players in France
please contact him at:

gatosepulveda@yahoo.com

he doesn't want to use your laundry, but wants to meet with honest hard
working and immensely cultured musiciens.
thank you very much
"steps down from soapbox"

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 17:05:34 2001
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:22:17 -0800
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ahhh...well i'm sure sarcasm will get me nowhere, eventually!

no disrespect intended, for sure.

I've not seen a Stomp performance, but i've seen a boatload of dance 
over the last 9 years.  Dancers happen to be extremely musical and 
talented on the average.  When they're not...it's VERY obvious and 
hard (if not sometimes humourous) to watch.

i guess IMHO, i would call what they do  "Tap on steriods".

taking tap and rhythm into the realm of what the Cirque De Soliel 
troops are doing...the jaded public seems to need to be 
"oooooohhhhed" and "aaaaaaahhhhhed" alot these days, and dance, as a 
medium, is having a hard time catching up.  not that oohs and aaahs 
are a bad thing in and of themselves, but dance has never really had 
that element going for it.  with Cirque, and Stomp, and other troops 
like Diavolo and LaLaLa, the "wow" factor has been taken up a notch.

Test Department, on the other hand, was a politically bent outfit 
intent on making a purely rhythmic force burrow into your brain.  To 
me, they had the same force and might of a marching army, but they 
seemed to be very anarchistic and free thinkers.  Just well crafted, 
extremely focused POWER.  no frills, no melody, just POW!

and my musings wander completely off topic, i'll stop now.  i 
heartily recommend "beating the retreat" and "the unacceptable face 
of freedom" however.

your mileage may vary.

respect,

rich


>i am not familiar with Test Department, but i met the players from
>the dallas production of stomp a few years ago
>(different players in different productions, like any broadway show)
>and found them to be extremely musical people...
>
>
>>  ...
>>  predecessors to stomp?  hahahaha...you're being generous...to 
>>stomp, that is.
>>
>>...
>>
>>  rich
>>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 17:50:13 2001
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Subject: Re: CV OT Test Department
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At 1:22 PM -0800 12/14/01, rich wrote:

>i guess IMHO, i would call what [Stomp] do  "Tap on steriods".
>
>taking tap and rhythm into the realm of what the Cirque De Soliel 
>troops are doing...with Cirque, and Stomp, and other troops like 
>Diavolo and LaLaLa, the "wow" factor has been taken up a notch.
>
>Test Department, on the other hand, was a politically bent outfit 
>intent on making a purely rhythmic force burrow into your brain.  To 
>me, they had the same force and might of a marching army, but they 
>seemed to be very anarchistic and free thinkers.  Just well crafted, 
>extremely focused POWER.  no frills, no melody, just POW!

My typical reaction when I see underground, political, or avant garde 
art appropriated and brought into the mainstream entertainment world 
is to be annoyed, even angry at the "rip off." This was my initital 
reaction when I became aware of Stomp, even when I first heard of the 
Blue Man Group. However, once I saw these acts I was myself 
entertained and I respect what they're doing. After all, I didn't get 
pissed off when the Beatles appropriated the idea of orchestral sound 
masses and used them to effect in "A Day in the Life."

However, I'm still rather annoyed at the trivialized adaptation of 
Survival Research Labs' work in the now-popular robot wars on TV.
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

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Subject: Re: re[2]: CV
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Cool!
I wonder if any of the large Electrix boxes could be used with this
technique- I have never worked with CV before- but it looks like I will be
soon- thanks-

Cliff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean Stiglitz" <deknow@deknow.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>;
<Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 9:44 AM
Subject: re[2]: CV


> another, often overlooked source of cv is a headphone out (reciever,
mixing board, microcassette, etc)...line level is generally too low to run a
cv, but the headphone amp can almost always do the job (i like the headphone
out of the tv myself, as you can see/hear the relationship between the lips
moving and the mod.
>
> deknow
>

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Hi all-=20

Just following up with my little EDP issue- after turning it off for =
awhile- I ran it through a 24hr test with no prob- I also =
removed-cleaned-and re-installed the RAM just for good measure- so no =
clear reason why- and I'm NOT going to try Hans's "Fonzie" technique if =
it does it again! Hans- you got EDPs in surplus or what? ;)

Cliff

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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hi all- </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Just following up with my little EDP issue- after =
turning it=20
off for awhile- I ran it through a 24hr test with no prob- I also=20
removed-cleaned-and re-installed the RAM just for good measure- so no =
clear=20
reason why- and I'm&nbsp;NOT going to try Hans's "Fonzie" technique if =
it does=20
it again! Hans- you got EDPs in surplus or what? ;)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Cliff</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_00D1_01C184AA.F5FD27C0--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 18:24:12 2001
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From: "Rick Walker \(loop.pool\)" <GLOBAL@cruzio.com>
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Subject: FIRST LOOPING MEMORIES
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:51:13 -0800
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Some one mentioned this to me the other day and it got me to reminiscing
about my history of looping.  I said that I had been looping for 9 years and
he said, "no way, man, I remember you using a digital delay to make a loop
in Union Grove Music in the early eighties".  It jogged my memory and I
started thinking about it:

For a quick historical note, my group TAO ELECTRICAL did a performance at
the old Art Center in Santa Cruz '81 or '82 with three tube Echoplexes with
the record heads removed and, one by one, left the stage at intermission
with the loops running (slightly out of syn). It was at an avante garde show
with Henry Kaiser. We thought we were so clever.........ha ha.

  We weren't nearly the first but I've been looping since then.  Michael
Haumesser (Not Michael, the brilliant electro/acoustic musician from Rhode
Island) was my inspiration.  He's the first person I ever saw who made
cassette loops and altered his echoplex.  He was also the first person I
ever saw play prepared guitar.  I steal from his creativity to this very day
;-)

I also remember starting a performance when one of the very first digital
delay machines came out (must have been '82 or '83) where the 'loop' was
sped up so fast that the phrase I had entered was just an abstract rhythmic
sound that I used as the 'bed' of the piece.   I slowed it down (very
slowly) at the end of the piece to reveal the phrase "It doesn't mean a
fucking thing".
I remember I thought I was so clever.........ha ha

How about a FIRST LOOOPING MEMORIES THREAD?   Either your first experience
or the first time you saw someone looping in a way that changed your life.
NOT A COMPETITION...............AN HOMAGE............anyone up for it?

yours, Rick Walker (aka, Loop.pooL)





From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 18:24:39 2001
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>However, I'm still rather annoyed at the trivialized adaptation of 
>Survival Research Labs' work in the now-popular robot wars on TV.

stop it, Richard.  you're firing off 80's and early 90's favorites 
too fast here, and if i go down memory lane any faster, i am surely 
to trip and fall.

i wonder, though...do you really think Mark Pauline could give a rats 
ass about robot wars, or that reality tv "junkyard" thing?  i'm 
pretty sure the robot wars are a tv fad that will soon go away.

i had the privelege of seeing an SRL show first hand in San Francisco 
about '89.  Definitely one of the most intense experiences of that 
period of my life.  having entrails spit at you from a tree shredder 
is quite something...

About a year ago, i think, there was an article in Spin that 
chronicled Pauline's exploits and showed how the next generation of 
SRL folks were taking his ideas and updating them.  Perhaps i'm 
getting older and softer, but the new guys seemed even MORE SCARY 
than Pauline.  Some dude designed a muscle car motor with a 
contraption connected to the drivetrain that spun nunchucks around so 
fast you couldn't even see them.  they said if a human or animal 
walked into it, it would desintegrate them.  or another guys sense of 
humor caused him to design a disease vending machine, where you would 
enter information about what kind of toxin you wanted, and the 
dispersement area.

given the terrorist attacks and anthrax scares...that ain't too 
fucking funny, IMO.

they scare me more because they seem to be venting outwards more, 
whereas SRL seemed to vent the violence inwards.  they invited the 
audience to observe, and took no responibility if a wayward fragment 
hurt someone, but there seemed to be no anger or violence TOWARDS the 
audience.

2 cents,

rich

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 18:43:06 2001
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Subject: OT:  Bass Ebow
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You can also glue little rubber 'runners' to the bottom of the e-bow so that
you can rest it on the body like it was designed for guitar.

my two cents.     rick walker (loop.pool)


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 19:20:17 2001
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this probably doesn't really count as it's not real time, but my first loops
were of the play deck a-record deck b-pause deck b-rewind deck a-record deck
b-play deck a variety. took forever to get a decent length built up but the
slight variations were kind of fun in playback. maybe i should try that
again, now that i have the software to edit out the pops between repeitions.
first live loops were via the sampling function on a kaoss pad, the now sold
boss sp202 which i don't miss much and a modified DODFX9 that i miss a lot
more.

i like threads like this, i'm curious to see how people started out as well.

Jon/Skincage

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 19:29:30 2001
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Shall I mention again I love this place?
I mean someone shows up says "I want to use an Ebow on my baritone
guitar" and evryone steps in and say, "yeah sure, i do that", "yeah me
too"..
Ask about Ebow on fretless guitar (I remember that from 1 or 2 years
from here) ans then again, just about as normal as your "starway to
heaven" an saturday evening in a Guitar Store. Everyone here (almost)
does that.
In normal world, showing my VG8 and jumping from an electro acoustic
sound with an open tuning to fifth tuned heavy distorted guitar is
enough to freak every player out.
I remember a gog I did a few years ago using a GR50 as one my main tool.

I was playing a (poor) rendition of Good Bye pork pie Hat with a kind of
Roland-from-80ies-voicepad-sound and there is a guy who suddenly stood
up yelling "I know guitars, you can't do that on guitar, this guy is a
fake, everything is recorded, you don't get those sounds with a guitar !
! ! )...
But then again I had 3 free beers...

Sometimes, this place feels like Home. I mean like home should be.

Well. I'm not helping any subject here... Just wanted to express how
sometimes I'm just happy to read you all...
You can tell a good club when you feel warm here (would -maybe- say
Calvin...)

Olivier Malhomme




From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 19:34:39 2001
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Subject: Re: CV OT Test Department
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At 2:39 PM -0800 12/14/01, rich wrote:

>do you really think Mark Pauline could give a rats ass about robot 
>wars, or that reality tv "junkyard" thing?

No.

>i had the privelege of seeing an SRL show first hand in San 
>Francisco about '89.  Definitely one of the most intense experiences 
>of that period of my life.  having entrails spit at you from a tree 
>shredder is quite something...

My first SRL experience was "Live TV Coverage of a Short Excursion 
Into The Bottomless Pit of Everlasting Fire In June 1981.
<http://www.srl.org/shows/archive/cadillac/livetv.html>

I also attended "A Cruel and Relentless Plot to Pervert the Flesh of 
Beasts to Unholy Uses" 
http://www.srl.org/shows/archive/cruelplot/cruelplot.html and a few 
others, but haven't seen anything since the mid-80s.

>they scare me more because they seem to be venting outwards more, 
>whereas SRL seemed to vent the violence inwards.  they invited the 
>audience to observe, and took no responibility if a wayward fragment 
>hurt someone, but there seemed to be no anger or violence TOWARDS 
>the audience.

Some of the events I saw in the early '80s had some pretty 
in-your-face acts. Monte Cazzaza had a pneumatic cannon that shot 
fluorescent tubes and he enjoy firing them up onto the freeway 
overpass. There were also some pretty aggressive flame throwers and a 
machine that pulverized blocks of concrete and sent showers out 
across the audience.
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz
--============_-1203748231==_ma============
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<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 }
 --></style><title>Re: CV OT Test Department</title></head><body>
<div><tt>At 2:39 PM -0800 12/14/01, rich wrote:</tt></div>
<div><tt><br></tt></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><tt>do you really think Mark Pauline
could give a rats ass about robot wars, or that reality tv
&quot;junkyard&quot; thing?</tt></blockquote>
<div><tt><br>
No.</tt><br>
<tt></tt></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><tt>i had the privelege of seeing an SRL
show first hand in San Francisco about '89.&nbsp; Definitely one of
the most intense experiences of that period of my life.&nbsp; having
entrails spit at you from a tree shredder is quite
something...</tt></blockquote>
<div><tt><br></tt></div>
<div><tt>My first SRL experience was &quot;Live TV Coverage of a Short
Excursion Into The Bottomless Pit of Everlasting Fire In June
1981.</tt></div>
<div><tt>&lt;http://www.srl.org/shows/archive/cadillac/livetv.html&gt;</tt
></div>
<div><tt><br></tt></div>
<div><tt>I also attended &quot;A Cruel and Relentless Plot to Pervert
the Flesh of Beasts to Unholy Uses&quot;&nbsp;
http://www.srl.org/shows/archive/cruelplot/cruelplot.html and a few
others, but haven't seen anything since the mid-80s.</tt></div>
<div><tt><br></tt></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><tt>they scare me more because they seem
to be venting outwards more, whereas SRL seemed to vent the violence
inwards.&nbsp; they invited the audience to observe, and took no
responibility if a wayward fragment hurt someone, but there seemed to
be no anger or violence TOWARDS the audience.</tt></blockquote>
<div><tt><br></tt></div>
<div><tt>Some of the events I saw in the early '80s had some pretty
in-your-face acts. Monte Cazzaza had a pneumatic cannon that shot
fluorescent tubes and he enjoy firing them up onto the freeway
overpass. There were also some pretty aggressive flame throwers and a
machine that pulverized blocks of concrete and sent showers out across
the audience.</tt></div>
<x-sigsep><pre>-- 
</pre></x-sigsep>
<div><br>
______________________________________________________________<br>
Richard Zvonar, PhD<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</x-tab><br>
(818) 788-2202<x-tab>&nbsp;
</x-tab><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</x-tab><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</x-tab><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</x-tab><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </x-tab><br>
http://www.zvonar.com<br>
http://RZCybernetics.com<br>
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone<br>
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz</div>
</body>
</html>
--============_-1203748231==_ma============--

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list: (+smiling at FREE++ NN netochka nezvanova ) ;

(nn time wheel aug 2000 MAXMSP list): 
>personally + certain other individuals = would
>very ultra desirous of funding lovely data - max or >otherwise 
>- particularly if ost europa + non.xy konglomerate >evidament.

Ive been thinking about applying for a grant to help me continue development of live looping software. it seems that a Linux box with M-Audio or RME interface is capable of reliable 1 ms latency. There is a lot of discussion amongst the Linux Audio people about creating a portable music workstation based in Linux. I think this would really appeal to people who shy away from software. It seems to be much less flakey, and a hardware user interface could easily be coupled. 

I would need access to a fast PC running Linux. I think a good machine could be had for $1000. The M-audio Delta1010, a 10in10out box, can be had used for about $500. For $1500-- a stable development platform for multichannel polymetric looping software. 

Perhaps there is a benevolent looper in NYC, or an organization to which I could write a proposal. I feel that, as people working on the edge of new processes for manifesting music, we need to take those methods into our own hands, and build fluid interfaces around the community's needs.

best
-jan

aside-----

ive been playing with ableton's Live software (www.ableton.com). here's some stuff i sent to the developers:

I was very happy with the interface. The design is clear and uncluttered. 
I was able to work it mostly intuitively. Dropping existing loops into 
slots was easy. I loved the feel of the files windows, where i could 
bring in old material, and the way that new tracks are stored 
automatically, allowing me to use material from one piece in another. 
Another great feature- the FX chain, where I could easily browse 
from my plugins and drop them onto tracks. The sliders, panners, and 
parameter editors were easy to operate. The keyboard shortcuts added 
fluidity. The quantize made lining new parts up easy. The length 
indicators when recording were helpful.

As an instrument, I found it, at times, difficult to operate Live while 
improvising. I set up a template, where keys were mapped to the record arm 
buttons, but was unable to start recording in a slot without either 
clicking on that slot or pressing RETURN. pressing the key assigned to 
that slot only seemed to work for cuing existing loops. though i liked the 
quantizer keeping things in sync, i found its behavior difficult when 
recording. i like to tap record in as i am about to start playing. if i 
happen to tap a bit after the downbeat, the quantizer would wait until the 
next beat before recording. in my looping software, the quantizer lines up 
the loop lengths, not the start and end times. the loop is effectively 
padded at the end. i like this behavior better.

Though I liked the separation of arranger and session windows, I was 
frustrated by it. The session window, with its matrix of cue-able loops, 
seemed to be operating on a time wheel metaphor.  Things revolved. Things 
were circular. But the arranger window was clearly a song timeline. 
Linear. Beginning and ending. I think it was an intelligent design 
decision, making the arranger like a sequencer. That way, loops could be 
unrolled into a 'song', live... and it would lend a degree of familiarity
to people who were already using Acid. but i live by the idea that the song is 
the singing. By the process, not the product. The idea of a finished, 
start-to-end 'arrangement' seemed contradictory to the Live metaphor.

I would have liked to see arrangements as circular things, like larger 
time wheels within which the smaller loop time wheels spin. Philip Glass 
once talked about his music in this way. I found myself with a set of 
tracks, grooving along, and wanting to change the groove. If I built up a 
second groove or called in tracks from the archives, I could then switch 
between grooves. But to create a more sophisticated structure Live, I 
found myself having to lay down automation in the arranger, then create a 
loop segment around my automation, then start the groove again. To me, this 
felt like two metaphors conflicting. If I enlisted a second person's help, 
i was able to remain more fluid in my improvisation without getting stuck 
in my engineering hat. but i would like to be able to conduct my process 
Live, like an instrument. 

i also found certain commands that were difficult to operate from the 
keyboard. i wanted to say, 'shift the pitch of tracks 1 through 3 down 5 
semitones starting next bar'. or 'map tracks 1-8 across these MIDI keys, 
and set them all to be gated so i can play them', or even, 
'cut up this loop into rhythmic fragments and map them across my midi keyboard'. 
these 'macro' abilities would have made it much easier for me to conduct 
while improvising. realistically, i only ever had a few seconds away 
from my instruments. i didnt want to be mousing around. 

you have a tough job, having to anticipate how different people create
music. with offline sequencing software, the degree of flexibility with
user interface is much greater. with Live, you have to remain in fluid,
yet provide a language between musician and computer that is understandable
to both. i was glad for the cue feature. this is DJ wisdom-- 
listen before you bring into the mix. 

i am very happy about your work. i feel it is an important synthesis of 
ideas brought down to Earth in a very usable package. i thought of
imprinting spinning crystals with my improvised resonations. working
in Live reminded me a bit of working with a delay pedal, and a bit of
working in Acid. it is an important bridge to build. it is an amazing
genesis, and i feel that it will mature into something really robust. 
let me know if i can be of help in the building. 

ps. i have included some discussions and ideas regarding my own loop work. 
see below.

best,
jan pekau


------
	****
   from the max/msp list-- thank you everyone for the discussions on looping!

>I'm not much of a looper, what sort of "dream functions" does the ultimate
>looping app have?


Who knows! Very individual, I think. For me, I'm interested in being able 
to
build up a part and come back to it later-- in a session, or by cuing up
loop mixes from disk. I'm interested in being able to have the computer 
help
me conduct the session-- puter, fade my bass loop out over 4 bars. Puter,
bring in that drumloop I recorded last time. Puter, we are switching all
melodic parts up 3 semitones. Puter, cue up these loops on just the monitor
mix so I can work with them before spitting them out. Puter, Jim just 
played
in some amazing shit. Let's timestrech that into the current loop. Only,
unlike an 'arranger' like Cubase, its a sonic continuum, it never stops. 
Its
created with that spirit.

For me its a way to bunk the traditional process of arranging music. I like
to work in the moment, and for me I've never really taken to assembling
pieces of my work and listening and relistening and tweaking. I'm 
interested
in expanding the loop analogy to be flexible enough to work with more
elaborate pieces-- where things get so dynamic, you might be surprised that
looping was a central totem to the process. So I'm trying to expand the
notion of looping to the point where the performer's role is less one of
holding groove or holding space and more one of imagining and directing the
flow of the space, and being a physical channel into that space. yields;
Building a piece so that you give the computer enough information as you
build it that it understands how your piece is structured, and it can
project the piece forwards in time as you continue to manipulate it.

This conjures some scary notions of inhuman music mediated by monotone
robots, but, as I see it, this can only liberate the performers to expand
the flow, rather than hold it. But then, that has been said about 
technology
in general== powerful tools definitely own their users as much as the
reverse is true. Oh, those inorganic beings!

All of this is somewhat rooted in a desire to dissolve the notion of a
'finished product' and to expose the whole process of creation as the
creation itself... and to empower the listener to become a creator by 
making
that process visible and available. I grew up improvising on piano and 
stuff
comes out, it needs to be channeled out, so I sit for hours and it just
bubbles up-- and in my visions I imagine communicating my intention for a
part and having the part build up by itself. Now my first reaction is that
seems a little ala Terrence McKenna machine elves, but then I stop and look
again and somehow 'bringing objects into existence by singing them into
existence' seems like a rational thing to shoot for.

>You got any beta patches yet?


Absolutely! They are messy, but if you can deal with that, I would love to
send you the whole thing, source & all. Then we could resonate together. 
tee
hee.



Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 20:33:52 2001
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 19:57:06 EST
Subject: veillette baritone guitar / citron guitars
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tnelson@metrocast.net writes:

>Veillette-Citron makes several beautiful acoustic/electric baris
><http://www.veilletteguitars.com/

joe veillette & harvey citron have separate companies, ie:
veillette guitars, and citron guitars ---
there is no longer a veillette-citron, since some 12 years (or so).
best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 14 23:16:27 2001
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buy me some monk's curry (pun intended ;-) at lemongrass and i'll be
happy!



On Fri, 14 Dec 2001 13:41:13 -0500 mr monk <monk@fuse.net> writes:
> cleaning out the closets:
> 
> 
> boss rps-10 (2 of) great for the adrian belew backwards sound (he 
> has two of
> them) and intellectually challenged ptich shifting
> 
> boss SG-1 slow gear. excellent condition. very rare. and sounds much 
> better
> (and works better ) than the chessy version in the DL-4...
> 
> electrix filter queen
> 
> 
> electrix filter factory
> 
> alesis quadraverb
> 
> alesis 3630 stereo compressor
> 
> behringer autocom
> 
> yamaha mv 802- cool little two rack space line mixer with leds and 
> you can
> use a CV PEDAL!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> behringer  cybermix ( use it to automate your analog studio mixer 
> (or if
> tony moore wants this back...he can have it...)
> 
> 
> make reasonable offers to me directly. buyer to pay actual 
> shipping/boxing
> charges.
> 
> 
>  
> 
> monk@fuse.net
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec 15 00:14:24 2001
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:41:31 -0800
To: Aaron Schindler <aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com>
From: "William R. Walker," <chillyb@cruzio.com>
Subject: Re: ebow w/ baritone guitar
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I use an E-bow on both my strat with a bari conversion neck and my
renaissance RS6B baritone acoustic electric. The spacing is a little wider
on the Ren but still works fine. both Warmouth and WD make strat or tele
conversion necks that will turn any strat or tele into a Sergio Leone wet
dream. I had one of the original chrome cover  e-bows, it got stolen, years
later I found another original with a leather holster, stolen as well,
bought a black one and it crapped out after a couple of years, Then I got a
grey one with a blue light, it lasted a year, I bought a new white at Namm
this year. Why do I keep buying these things? E-bow users know why...
Bill


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec 15 00:58:00 2001
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Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 00:16:54 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Tim Nelson <tnelson@metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: veillette baritone guitar / citron guitars
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Yep, it's been 18 years (1983), ackcherly, and I tagged on the Citron outa
force of habit/dating myself. I meant Veillette sans Citron, as the link
would indicate... Tempus sure does fugit.

-t-

At 07:57 PM 12/14/01 EST, you wrote:
>tnelson@metrocast.net writes:
>
>>Veillette-Citron makes several beautiful acoustic/electric baris
>><http://www.veilletteguitars.com/
>
>joe veillette & harvey citron have separate companies, ie:
>veillette guitars, and citron guitars ---
>there is no longer a veillette-citron, since some 12 years (or so).
>best,
>dt / splattercell
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec 15 01:07:26 2001
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From: Tim Nelson <tnelson@metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: total ot
In-Reply-To: <p0510030cb83fffef1e36@[63.195.210.50]>
References: <5F558325FAAED51190EF00508BBE34D080481A@mitorexch01.maritz.com>
 <5F558325FAAED51190EF00508BBE34D080481A@mitorexch01.maritz.com>
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At 11:33 AM 12/14/01 -0800, Dr. Z wrote:
>>a guy named ben chapman
>
>Didn't he play the Gill Man in the Creature from the Black Lagoon?

Ben Chapman did indeed play the Gill Man in the ABOVE water scenes, but in
the underwater shots it was Olympic swimmer Ricou Browning, who later
created the TV series 'Flipper', and who has never lived with Diamanda Galas.

-t-

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec 15 03:08:32 2001
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 23:44:32 -0800
From: Anthony Justman <pantonio@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: slightly OT: cables
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 <011601c183ac$7f5dc5b0$0282c83f@kinesys.kinesystechnologies.com>
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I roll my own for the most part.  I think it makes a difference.  I
definitely is a lot cheaper than decent cables (meaning something other than
hosa).  whirlwinds are decent.  never tried the solderless ones.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Lawrence" <dlawren@pacbell.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: slightly OT: cables


> A while back, I would have said no ... but I used George L's solderless
> cables on my pedalboard recently and I really did notice a slight
difference
> ... and I don't mean like Eric Johnson superhuman undetectable to the
> typical human ear type hearing either ... just less noise.
>
> But, I do not see any way to justify spending Monster Cable prices for
> cables ...
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: THusken@aol.com
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 10:53 PM
> Subject: slightly OT: cables
>
>
> Hey everybody!  In regard to putting a rack system together; does cable
> quality make a huge difference?
> In other words - should I bother investing in specially made sets of cable
> or would I be just as well off grabbing some HOSA cables from someplace
like
> Musicians Friend? (I'll be using 1/4" stereo to dual 1/4" phone plugs to
> hook my stuff up to a Patchmate.)  Thanks!    -Todd
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec 15 10:27:18 2001
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Subject: Re: slightly OT: cables
From: charmah tiego <tiegolego@noos.fr>
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i compared a Hosa multipair and one i made out of Mogami cable.
In good 'grounding' conditions i noticed a slight definition loss:
dynamics i guess .The stereo'image' semt different.
Still, i think you need a really good system to hear it
But ,and this is a common thing in home studios and stage, if you have your
cables running by power cables, or any kind of electromagnetic field,if you
have loops (oooops) problems, well, this is where you realise you had better
buy some decent cable.


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec 15 13:45:58 2001
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From: Nemoguitt@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 13:13:44 EST
Subject: Re: FIRST LOOPING MEMORIES
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singing gregorian chant in the "brothers" chapel in a carmelite monastery in 
the early to mid sixties, while in my mind i was wondering "how the heck did 
the beatles make those sounds?".....it was the begining of the end.....:)m

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec 15 15:12:41 2001
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Subject: Re: FIRST LOOPING MEMORIES
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 20:38:36 +0100
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Hi all. My first looping machine was my grandfather's stereo dual cassette
recorder (I plugged my old korg a5 pedalboard in a really old eko analog
delay pedal ('round 600 or 800ms of delay) and then all in the mic input on
the recorder), and, while sending on the A deck a cassette of rivers and
forest sounds, recording guitar delays and fx on deck B, then getting the
recorded cassette in deck A recording on a second cassette everything and
adding other guitar fx. A few years later I bought my first 4 tracks
recorder, and being able to turn the cassette and get the backward sounds
opened up a whole new world to me. Then I got a korg A1, and I thought 'what
the heck can I do with all this delay time?' (2.6 secs in hold delay mode
and 1.3 secs in normal delay). After another few years I got the Headrush,
and 19 secs of delay seemed to me to be a good delay time, then I put my
hands on a friend's EDP with 50.3 secs, and I got him to sell me the
machine... Now I'm searching to 4 mb sims to have even more time... Hell,
loops are addictive, aren't they???:-):-):-)

P.S. I still use all of the above mentioned machines, except for the Eko
delay, which broke after two years of use/abuse, and I gladly loop on all of
them...

Peace
Luigi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Walker (loop.pool)" <GLOBAL@cruzio.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:51 PM
Subject: FIRST LOOPING MEMORIES


> Some one mentioned this to me the other day and it got me to reminiscing
> about my history of looping.  I said that I had been looping for 9 years
and
> he said, "no way, man, I remember you using a digital delay to make a loop
> in Union Grove Music in the early eighties".  It jogged my memory and I
> started thinking about it:
>
> For a quick historical note, my group TAO ELECTRICAL did a performance at
> the old Art Center in Santa Cruz '81 or '82 with three tube Echoplexes
with
> the record heads removed and, one by one, left the stage at intermission
> with the loops running (slightly out of syn). It was at an avante garde
show
> with Henry Kaiser. We thought we were so clever.........ha ha.
>
>   We weren't nearly the first but I've been looping since then.  Michael
> Haumesser (Not Michael, the brilliant electro/acoustic musician from Rhode
> Island) was my inspiration.  He's the first person I ever saw who made
> cassette loops and altered his echoplex.  He was also the first person I
> ever saw play prepared guitar.  I steal from his creativity to this very
day
> ;-)
>
> I also remember starting a performance when one of the very first digital
> delay machines came out (must have been '82 or '83) where the 'loop' was
> sped up so fast that the phrase I had entered was just an abstract
rhythmic
> sound that I used as the 'bed' of the piece.   I slowed it down (very
> slowly) at the end of the piece to reveal the phrase "It doesn't mean a
> fucking thing".
> I remember I thought I was so clever.........ha ha
>
> How about a FIRST LOOOPING MEMORIES THREAD?   Either your first experience
> or the first time you saw someone looping in a way that changed your life.
> NOT A COMPETITION...............AN HOMAGE............anyone up for it?
>
> yours, Rick Walker (aka, Loop.pooL)
>
>
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec 15 16:36:04 2001
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Thanks for the advice everybody.

I had planned on using George L. cable for my pedalboards and as an 
instrument cable...and then setting up my rack with the other.

One more ignorant question.  Believe it or not, as of now all my rack gear is 
running 'in series' from one piece to the next - all of it being stacked up 
on my stereo speakers.  How's that for lo-tech?

Funny thing about this is that the noise level changes.  Sometimes it's 
extremely noisy and at others it is extremely quiet.  This is amazing to me 
because my preamp is (god forbid) an ADA MP-2.  What do you all think would 
cause the change in noise levels? 

-and when I say quiet, all the noise I can sometimes hear is the sound of the 
fan in the power amp!   -Todd

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Thanks for the advice everybody.
<BR>
<BR>I had planned on using George L. cable for my pedalboards and as an instrument cable...and then setting up my rack with the other.
<BR>
<BR>One more ignorant question. &nbsp;Believe it or not, as of now all my rack gear is running 'in series' from one piece to the next - all of it being stacked up on my stereo speakers. &nbsp;How's that for lo-tech?
<BR>
<BR>Funny thing about this is that the noise level changes. &nbsp;Sometimes it's extremely noisy and at others it is extremely quiet. &nbsp;This is amazing to me because my preamp is (god forbid) an ADA MP-2. &nbsp;What do you all think would cause the change in noise levels? 
<BR>
<BR>-and when I say quiet, all the noise I can sometimes hear is the sound of the fan in the power amp! &nbsp;&nbsp;-Todd</FONT></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec 15 16:45:29 2001
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From: "Michael Peters" <mpeters@csi.com>
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Subject: RE: FIRST LOOPING MEMORIES
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 22:17:18 +0100
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> How about a FIRST LOOOPING MEMORIES THREAD?

I remember that one day in the mid-seventies, my friends and me had
collected all their tape recorders (I think 5 of them), put them in a circle
on the floor, and ran long tape loops around. The results were ... er,
experimental, but interesting. Lots of noise and hiss that piled up. Too bad
no recordings have survived. Oh well. Later ... 79-81 ... first
Frippertronics-inspired guitar loop performances with 2 Revox boxes ...

= michael peters
= computer graphics + electronic music
= www.mpeters.de/mpeweb


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec 15 20:53:50 2001
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Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 18:22:22 -0700
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I have Electrix EQ Killer for sale, for the price I got it: $60 +
shipping.

Email me privately: pepetr@yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec 15 21:55:16 2001
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  Hello,
  I'd like to get some feedback from any of you out there
  who own and use any of the following effects units;
  Digitech ips-33b
  Digitech dhp-55
  Lexicon Vortex
  Any of the Eventide H-3000 series units
  Eventide Eclipse
  Line 6 Delay Modeler pedal
  I'd like to get some user opinions/thoughts/philophies
  about the use and performance of these units. Not specs,
  but how you utilise these effects in your set-ups.
  Any input would be appreciated!
  Thanks for your time.
  Sincerely,
  Chris Olden


_________________________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec 15 22:42:28 2001
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Subject: RE: 'nother Newbie question  
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 19:12:35 -0800
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The best place to start with such a broad request would be the mailing list
archives at www.loopersdelight.com

You can search and find a wealth of info there-

Cliff

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Olden [mailto:chrisolden@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 6:23 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re:'nother Newbie question





  Hello,
  I'd like to get some feedback from any of you out there
  who own and use any of the following effects units;
  Digitech ips-33b
  Digitech dhp-55
  Lexicon Vortex
  Any of the Eventide H-3000 series units
  Eventide Eclipse
  Line 6 Delay Modeler pedal
  I'd like to get some user opinions/thoughts/philophies
  about the use and performance of these units. Not specs,
  but how you utilise these effects in your set-ups.
  Any input would be appreciated!
  Thanks for your time.
  Sincerely,
  Chris Olden


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec 15 22:59:03 2001
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>  Digitech ips-33b
I don't own one but you can find these now just for a few bucks & they sound 
really good...DT did some cool stuff w/ one on his "painting" video & it 
sounds like he might have used it on the Polytown record BUT not sure on 
that one. ??

>  Lexicon Vortex
I been using this one as a post processor for my loops only. First the 
Jamman & now the EDP. Thinking of something else. What do folks think of the 
TC FireworX? Can you do "morh" patching on that via an expression petal.
cheers
LOU


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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec 15 23:16:31 2001
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From: "Louis Rossi" <tarbit@hotmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: veillette baritone guitar / citron guitars
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 22:45:14 -0500
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>From: Hedewa7@aol.com
>Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>Subject: veillette baritone guitar / citron guitars
>Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 19:57:06 EST
>
>joe veillette & harvey citron have separate companies, ie:
>veillette guitars, and citron guitars ---
>there is no longer a veillette-citron, since some 12 years (or so).
>best,
>dt / splattercell
>

Hey DT.
Joe V lives in your neck in of the woods, right? Do you know if his workshop 
is welcome to vistors? I'm in the mood for a field trip upstate
ciao!
Lou Rossi




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Subject: Re: Tonight! Field Effects featuring Loren Chasse, Quiet American, Matt Davignon
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well, i unfortunately was not able to attend last nights event. can 
someone who made it post a report? does anyone know if there are files 
or records of any kind online somewhere?

thanks,
jeff



On Friday, December 14, 2001, at 12:10 PM, matt davignon wrote:

> Field Effects: a night of beauty made by the world
>
> Friday, December 14
>
> Door 8:00 pm, performance 8:30 pm sharp.
>
> $6-10 sliding scale, no one turned away for lack of funds.
>
> ----> Event Description <-----------------------------------------------
>
> The world makes music, remember to listen. The world makes movies,
> remember to look.
>
> Field Effects offers a night of field recording based performance.
>
> Featuring sound artists:
>
> Loren Chasse (SF)
>     http://www.23five.org/lchasse/
>
> Tape Recorder (Oakland)
>     Matt Davignon's tape-based project, samples available at:
>     http://www.mp3.com/field_recordings/
>
> Quiet American (SF)
>     http://www.quietamerican.org
>
> And featuring projection by:
>
> Keith Evans (Oakland)
>      of silt (projection ensemble)
>
> Carl Diehl (SF)
>      Kinetic engineer travelling through time with a VCR.
>
> Richard Holland (Madison, WI)
>     West coast premier of his stunning "tiny movies"
>     http://www.ponderance.org/holland/TinyMoviesMenu.html
>
> Field Effects is a showcase of Bay Area artists interested in framing 
> the
> hidden beauty of the everyday world. Beauty on the surface, awaiting our
> attention. Beauty that must be delicately extracted. And beauty in
> potential, awaiting juxtaposition, collage, repetition and mutilation.
>
> Field recordings are made out in the world, not the studio. Fair game:
> machines, animals, weather, vehicles, buskers, hawkers, preachers,
> objects, and the mad.
>
> Seating on futons to encourage comfortable listening and viewing.
>
> Out of respect for the onset of winter, hot drinks will be available.
>
> ----> Venue Info <------------------------------------------------------
>
> 964 Natoma
> (between 10th and 11th, and Mission and Howard)
> San Francisco, CA 94103
>
> A few blocks from Civic Center BART.  One block from Market & Van Ness.
>
> Bike parking inside.
>
> Map at Mapquest:
> http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?BFCat=&Pyt=Tmap&newFL=Use+Address+Below&
> addr=964+Natoma&csz=San+Francisco%2C+CA&Country=us&Get%A0Map=Get+Map
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 16 00:22:38 2001
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Back in High School..mid to late 70s...someone turned me onto the whole 
"tape loop" theory.  Being curious, abstract, avant, and seeking out new 
sounds, other than the rock music most my peers were into, I "borrowed" my 
Dad's Reel to Reel 4 track (remember "quadraphonic sound" guys?) and found a 
second (only a two track) at a garage sale.  I remmeber making my own 
"looping" setup, with the long tape loop running across my bedroom floor. 
Ha, Rick..I thought I was so clever, too!
Some real sick and twisted sounds were made, by me, my trumpet, my rather 
hideous guitar playing, and my friend's micro-Moog.  Ah, I remember it well.
Wasn't too long later someone showed me an Echoplex. Got me thinkin'...
Then I saw a Roland Space Echo...and HAD to have it!  My Dad got his tape 
deck back, but he was rather annoyed at me. What had I done to the record 
heads?
Then in 79 or 80 I saw Robert Fripp doing the Frippertronics thing at a 
festival in Annapolis, Md.  I had been hip to Fripp and Eno (evening Star, 
No Pussyfooting etc...all staples of my record collection), but seeing and 
hearing it live (well..seeing is misleading...he was just a shadow on the 
stage, a sillouette of a man, his guitar and two Revoxes). Tho' I did not 
really understand all he was doing...it sounded incredible!  And really 
changed my whole way of perceiving music, just as seeing Miles had a few 
years earlier.
The Space Echo went to good use...lots of use, although I think only myself, 
my micro-moog toting friend, and a few warped co-horts really appreciated 
all the madness.  The first "experimental" band I was in I played "Roland 
Space Echo"; just treating and looping sound.
Spent some time away from it all whilst I learned to play bass...really play 
bass, but then got an Effectron and a some early Digitech digital delay 
which had an infinite repeat/hold function.  This would be the mid-80s, and 
I was BassLooping!  Of course doing such got me fired from many bands....
Much later, I met Mr. Loopool Walker, and his nefarious  brother....they 
forced me to get a JamMan...and well, the rest is in the loop....
Max

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From: Brett Maraldo <plexus@sympatico.ca>
Subject: OT: gig spam
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Picture of the live rig (plexus):
http://www.plexusinteractivegroup.com/music/live.jpg

>  We are known as SOFTWARE and have been musical partners for 20 years.
>  We are going to be doing a live show at The Ambient Ping at C'Est
>  What? on Front Street at 9pm on 8 January 2002.
>
>  It would be fantastic if you could come out and join us. The venue is
>  a nice toasty intimate environment with good drinks and food.
>
>  You can get more info on the evening at http://www.theambientping.com
>
>  More info about SOFTWARE at : 
>http://www.plexusinteractivegroup.com/technojazz
>
>  And listen to some live SOFTWARE at: http://www.mp3.com/softwarehere
>
>  Finally here is the blurb:
>
>  Plexus (synthesizers) and Paul Asselin (guitars)  are pleased to be
>  celebrating 20 years of collaborative improvised electronic music at
>  this The Ambient Ping's first show in 2002. With their eccentric
>  underpinnings dating back to 1982, this duo often transforms what are
>  considered accepted genres. Their most recent collaborations have
>  brought about 'techo-jazz' which is the closest English term to
>  describe the music they create; and will be creating for you at this
>  The Ping. With an entourage of vintage and modern electronics,
>  SOFTWARE creates music (not noise) in a totally improvised fashion
>  and strives to be sensitive to the audience's enjoyment of
>  spontaneous musical creation. SOFTWARE is pleased to perform it's
>  continuous-musical-experience in a more disciplined ambient approach
>  for you in this evening of exploration.
>
>  It would be great to see you in the new year and celebrate our 20th
>  anniversary. THERE IS NO COVER CHARGE!

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 16 09:17:00 2001
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Anybody to translate, please ?
Thanks
Emmanuel

Red Sound C-Loops (dawna nazwa Red Sound Cycloops), to pierwszy na
?wiecie DJ Loop Sampler, który jednocze?nie jest bardzo prosty w u?yciu.

http://www.modus.pl/red/c_loops.html


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I think this one's in English

http://www.redsound.com/home2.htm

----- Original Message -----
From: "Emmanuel PERILLE" <perille@club-internet.fr>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 8:45 AM
Subject: Polen


> Anybody to translate, please ?
> Thanks
> Emmanuel
>
> Red Sound C-Loops (dawna nazwa Red Sound Cycloops), to pierwszy na
> ?wiecie DJ Loop Sampler, który jednocze?nie jest bardzo prosty w u?yciu.
>
> http://www.modus.pl/red/c_loops.html
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 16 10:58:23 2001
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Please,

I want a serious answer
Who could translate word-by-word what this sentence says ?

Thank you,
Emmanuel

Bill Cummings a écrit :

> I think this one's in English
>
> http://www.redsound.com/home2.htm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Emmanuel PERILLE" <perille@club-internet.fr>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 8:45 AM
> Subject: Polen
>
> > Anybody to translate, please ?
> > Thanks
> > Emmanuel
> >
> > Red Sound C-Loops (dawna nazwa Red Sound Cycloops), to pierwszy na
> > ?wiecie DJ Loop Sampler, który jednocze?nie jest bardzo prosty w u?yciu.
> >
> > http://www.modus.pl/red/c_loops.html
> >
> >

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 16 11:32:08 2001
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Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 08:00:25 -0800 (PST)
From: philip raath <philraath@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: FIRST LOOPING MEMORIES
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i'm probably one of the youngest members here, so my
first experiences with looping are probably 20 years
after a lot of you guys and girls...

when i was 16, my first loops were with the boss dd5 2
second sampler. i was in a little high school band and
i wanted to have sequences and drones and whatnot, so
i set up these droning swell sounds that i thought
were great, but the rest of the band was quickly
getting irritated and demanding that i start acting
like a guitar player again. we also had an ensoniq
esq1 that i would loop rythmic and synth sequences on,
but again, the rest of the band was kind of wondering
why i couldn't just play the damn song ("how can we
jam when we have sequences going on?"). i've not been
in a steady band since...once i figured out that i
could trigger the sp-202 with a sequence to handle
beats and rythm guitar, it was over. 

i don't remember when it finally occurred to me that
real time looping was a possibility...i'm sure it had
something to do with ric in over the rhine, and
certainly by the second MONK album it was apparent.

then i started listening to michael brook and i said,
i gotta get me some *that* shit...

good topic!

phil

=====
"Compassion is the sometimes fatal capacity for feeling what
it's like to live inside somebody else's skin.
 It is the knowledge that there can never really be any
peace and joy for me until there is peace and joy finally 
for you too." 
                                   -Frederick Buechner
"The jewel is in the lotus."

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 16 14:22:00 2001
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lou,
>Hey DT.
>Joe V lives in your neck in of the woods, right?
yup.

>Do you know if his workshop
>is welcome to vistors? 
i would guess so!
i think that his number is:
845.679.6154

>I'm in the mood for a field trip upstate
me, too!
best,
dt / s-c

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 16 14:26:36 2001
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lou said:
>>  Digitech ips-33b
>I don't own one but you can find these now just for a few bucks & they
>sound really good...DT did some cool stuff w/ one on his "painting" video
did i? huh..... really?
i don't have one of those, but i do still have a digitech DHP55..... which i 
used (heavily) on the title track to 'what means 'solid', traveller?'.

> & it
>sounds like he might have used it on the Polytown record BUT not sure on
>that one. ??
no, definitely not --- 'twas a lexicon pcm80.

best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 16 15:05:05 2001
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From: landman@wco.com (Mark Landman)
Subject: Re: FIRST LOOPING MEMORIES
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Warning: Fripp related posting ensues, also, ambient loopage worship,
consider yourselves warned...

I was aware of looping from "No Pussyfooting", but honestly remember not
being terribly interested in that record initially. Not enough "going on"
for my underdeveloped tastes, heavily influenced by the then current
"fusion music".

But seeing Fripp do his Frippertronics thing live at the Mabuhay Gardens
(an old punk rock icon) in July of 1979 was a powerful experience. The
sound of the loops was wonderful, ranging from haunting beauty to
screaming, raging power, the texture as the loops degenerated (the Revoxes
being high-qulaity, but not lossless digital recirculation) mesemerizing.

And the most important part was the soloing on top, at one minute building
and contributing to the loop, the next commenting and flying above it.
Parts of this remain on "Let the Power Fall", which presents the loops as
they were printed to tape, unfortunately, the soloing went into the void
unrecorded, save for my woefully inadequate memory...

My first looper was a Lexicon Prime Time II Model 95, with a extended
memory of 3.84 seconds at 16 khz, or 7.68 at 8 khz. With control of the
delay time, 2 tap outputs w/ separate feedback, and plenty of on board
mixing ability, it was very nice indeed.

Since then many different looping toys have come and gone, and currently
I'm trying to wrap my brain around a Kyma system (arrrgh, damn my lack of
math!). But that initial "exposure' (o.k., pun intended) colored my musical
sensibilities strongly.

Best-

Mark


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>From: Hedewa7@aol.com
>Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>Subject: Re: Re:'nother Newbie question
>Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 13:55:11 EST
>
>lou said:
> >>  Digitech ips-33b
> >I don't own one but you can find these now just for a few bucks & they
> >sound really good...DT did some cool stuff w/ one on his "painting" video
>did i? huh..... really?
>i don't have one of those, but i do still have a digitech DHP55..... which 
>i
>used (heavily) on the title track to 'what means 'solid', traveller?'.

Thanks for clarifying. I found your "homespun" video very useful..

> > & it
> >sounds like he might have used it on the Polytown record BUT not sure on
> >that one. ??
>no, definitely not --- 'twas a lexicon pcm80.
>
>best,
>dt / splattercell

I wish I could get my PCM80 to sound that good. Any hints please :)

Grazie!
Lou Rossi






_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

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Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 12:13:01 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: jeff <jeff@modaldub.net>
Subject: Re: Polen
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--============_-1203588912==_ma============
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

from http://www.poltran.com/

Translation:
Old name of roadstead roadsteads ( ) Sound C-Loops Sound Cycloops, it 
first on? You know DJ Loop Sampler, what jednocze? Is not it in (to) 
at? yciu.


pretty crummy translation, i think you may need to find an actual 
translator to get anything out of that. there are several online 
services that look good, though you have to pay them.

-j




>Anybody to translate, please ?
>Thanks
>Emmanuel
>
>Red Sound C-Loops (dawna nazwa Red Sound Cycloops), to pierwszy na
>?wiecie DJ Loop Sampler, kt=F3ry jednocze?nie jest bardzo prosty w u?yciu.
>
>http://www.modus.pl/red/c_loops.html

-- 





-----

Jeff Blanding
jeff@modaldub.net
http://www.modaldub.net

-----

"Freedom is a scary thing - not many people really want it."
  - Laurie Anderson
--============_-1203588912==_ma============
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { margin-top: 0 ; margin-bottom: 0 }
 --></style><title>Re: Polen</title></head><body>
<div>from http://www.poltran.com/</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"-1"
color=3D"#0A6B6C"><b>Translation:</b></font></div>
<div><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"-1" color=3D"#000000">Old name of
roadstead roadsteads ( ) Sound C-Loops Sound Cycloops, it first on?
You know DJ Loop Sampler, what jednocze? Is not it in (to) at?
yciu.</font></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>pretty crummy translation, i think you may need to find an
actual translator to get anything out of that. there are several
online services that look good, though you have to pay them.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>-j</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" cite>Anybody to translate, please ?<br>
Thanks<br>
Emmanuel<br>
<br>
Red Sound C-Loops (dawna nazwa Red Sound Cycloops), to pierwszy na<br>
?wiecie DJ Loop Sampler, kt=F3ry jednocze?nie jest bardzo prosty w
u?yciu.<br>
<br>
http://www.modus.pl/red/c_loops.html</blockquote>
<div><br></div>

<div>-- <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----<br>
<br>
Jeff Blanding<br>
jeff@modaldub.net<br>
http://www.modaldub.net<br>
<br>
-----<br>
<br>
&quot;Freedom is a scary thing - not many people really want
it.&quot;<br>
&nbsp;- Laurie Anderson</div>
</body>
</html>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 16 16:47:02 2001
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Subject: Re: Re:'nother Newbie question  IPS 33B
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I own and use Digitech ips-33b.  I use it as an insert effect in
Digitech 2120.  Mostly for wonderful and complex arpeggios.

petr





From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 16 16:59:31 2001
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lou,
>I wish I could get my PCM80 to sound that good. Any hints please :)
..... don't know about 'good', but:
when yer using those long reverbs in a gtr setup, rolloff the high end as low 
as 2k, and set the lowend verb-response to a smallish divisor (to keep the 
low end of the gtr 'clearer').
also, ya could try some randomisation in the reverb tails, and abnormally 
long pre-delays to keep the gtr 'attack' clear.....
and, when pitch-shifting, try some kinda delays on the p.s., w/modulation of 
the shift --- followed by some verb.....
best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 16 18:10:46 2001
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>well, i unfortunately was not able to attend last nights event. can someone 
>who made it post a report? does anyone know if there are files or records 
>of any kind online somewhere?

>thanks, jeff

Hi Jeff,

The show was a great success. Very encouraging for the prospect of doing 
more shows like this (and differently themed experimental shows). About 80 
people showed up. (We were thinking we'd be lucky to have 50.) The acts were 
all excellent. Especially noteable was one of the video installations, which 
involved a mobile with branches spinning against a board (contact miked), 
with a projector flashing images onto the board, and a camera filming the 
whole thing.

We didn't have a direct recording off the board like we were hoping, but we 
asked a guy in the to record for us. The other host still needs to transfer 
the material from minidisc to a useable format, but I'm confident that the 
result will be highly listenable.

Matt


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 16 18:13:41 2001
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Louis wrote:

>  Lexicon Vortex
> I been using this one as a post processor for my loops only. First the
> Jamman & now the EDP. Thinking of something else. What do folks think of
the
> TC FireworX? Can you do "morh" patching on that via an expression petal.
> cheers
> LOU
I am using a Fireworx as one of the effects I have in the aux sends.
It has become the one I use the most to effect loops.
The morphing feature you are writing about has nothing to do with the ones
of the Vortex.
Fireworx has an "Alpha dial", which is a pot on the panel you can link to
any parameter you wish.
Think it as a continous control that you can link to one or more values.
The intelligent thing is that this Alpha dial has a led bar on the panel, so
you can always know where you are.
You can link the Alpha dial or just the led bar to a midi continous
controller or to a footpedal.
Sure you can also link it to a sort of balance (control the inputs of two
different effect blocks) between two different paths.
The Vortex has a more "interactive" way to make this, I think I remember.
Anyway, Fireworx is really a great destroying  machine, but forget its
reverbs.....
ciao,
Luca

www.unguitar.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 16 19:01:31 2001
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>From: "luca" <lucafeed@tin.it>
>Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
>Subject: Re: Re:'nother Newbie question
>Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 23:42:09 +0100

> > LOU
>I am using a Fireworx as one of the effects I have in the aux sends.
>It has become the one I use the most to effect loops.
>The morphing feature you are writing about has nothing to do with the ones
>of the Vortex.
>Fireworx has an "Alpha dial", which is a pot on the panel you can link to
>any parameter you wish.
>Think it as a continous control that you can link to one or more values.
>The intelligent thing is that this Alpha dial has a led bar on the panel, 
>so
>you can always know where you are.
>You can link the Alpha dial or just the led bar to a midi continous
>controller or to a footpedal.
>Sure you can also link it to a sort of balance (control the inputs of two
>different effect blocks) between two different paths.
>The Vortex has a more "interactive" way to make this, I think I remember.
>Anyway, Fireworx is really a great destroying  machine, but forget its
>reverbs.....
>ciao,
>Luca
>
>www.unguitar.com
>
Grazie Luca!
LOU




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

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do you have anything online, where i can hear what you do?  i'm not 
trying to be too sarcastic...i just have a hard time with this "oh my 
god, that stuff totally sucks".  if it blows that hard, why are they 
showing up in professional player's rigs?  are they as tone deaf as i 
am, digging on the fact that i can get a pretty kick ass sound 
without turning an amp up to saturation point and rattling the walls?

a marshall (4x12 celestion's and all) can sound like shit at bedroom 
volumes....a POD/Flextone can sound like shit at club volumes, if not 
tweaked for such use.

Hi all,
I have received quite a bit of response with my doodling here so it must be 
subject of great interest....would like to elaborate more on this but maybe 
it's getting a bit too much OT. I'll just add what I just wrote to Jim 
about the Marshall sounds in his Pod:

Jim, I don't agree. It's an impersonation of that type of tone, and a very 
cluttered and undynamic one on top of that. I would almost take a bet about 
how long the bean-shaped hype will last (I see them used for very cheap 
already). But then, that's just the opinion I have to have since I threw my 
exclusive Mesa/Boogie Rack over the cliff in favour of old school single 
channel tube amps a couple of years ago. It's almost a Kurzweil vs. 
Steinway type of debate. If you are getting great sounds, by all means go 
ahead!

andreas 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 17 00:43:14 2001
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Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 21:14:44 -0800
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Subject: app to convert/read AKAI disk image on Mac
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how-D all,

i uh.. came across.. a disk image of samples called Terminator, in 
AKAI format i think, and my normal apps (on Mac OS) can not mount the 
image. does anyone know a piece of software that will allow me to 
either convert or read the samples on this disk image?

thanks-in-advance,
jeff

-- 





-----

Jeff Blanding
jeff@modaldub.net
http://www.modaldub.net

-----

"Freedom is a scary thing - not many people really want it."
  - Laurie Anderson

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 17 00:46:12 2001
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From: John Tidwell <wedgehed@yahoo.com>
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--- Emmanuel PERILLE <perille@club-internet.fr> wrote:
> Please,
> 
> I want a serious answer
> Who could translate word-by-word what this sentence
> says ?
> 
> Thank you,
> Emmanuel
> >
> > > Red Sound C-Loops (dawna nazwa Red Sound
> Cycloops), to pierwszy na
> > > ?wiecie DJ Loop Sampler, który jednocze?nie jest
> bardzo prosty w u?yciu.


According to the Polish-to-English phrase book that
I purchased in London some 25 years ago, it says...

My nipples explode with desire for a Red Sound
Cycloops
DJ Loop Sampler.

John

(sorry Emmanuel, I couldn't resist)




=====
John Tidwell




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 17 03:50:13 2001
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:15:06 -0800
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From: Kim Flint <kflint@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Re:EDP Undo Question
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At 06:06 AM 12/12/2001, Steve Sandberg wrote:
>I'm a little confused by the undo operation on the EDP, and was wondering 
>if anyone could clear it up for me (like through one of your wonderful 
>little essays, Kim?).
>I've read the manual, and understand that a long press is supposed to undo 
>the entire previous layer (given memory limitations), and a short press is 
>supposed to undo the tail end starting from where you press "undo".  But 
>my EDP seems erratic in this function -- often I have to press undo twice 
>or more to undo the previous layer, and often it doesn't allow a long 
>press -- the little undo light blinks on and off really quickly.  Also, it 
>seems to me that sometimes I have to press undo while the previously 
>recorded material I want to undo is actually playing.  If I press it 
>elsewhere in the loop, nothing happens.
>Comments, anyone?  thanks in advance.

hi-

It takes some practice and a good understanding of what the echoplex is 
doing with undo in order to use it effectively, much as any instrument 
takes a bit of practice. I encourage you to read (or re-read) the section 
on Undo in the users manual, as that has a fairly good explanation. Also, 
there have been a variety of useful posts about Undo made to the Looper's 
Delight list that may be helpful:

http://www.loopers-delight.com/LDarchive/199811/msg00329.html
http://www.loopers-delight.com/LDarchive/200009/msg00082.html
http://www.loopers-delight.com/LDarchive/199707/msg00310.html
http://www.loopers-delight.com/LDarchive/199708/msg00009.html
http://www.loopers-delight.com/LDarchive/199802/msg00706.html
http://www.loopers-delight.com/LDarchive/199802/msg00728.html
http://www.loopers-delight.com/LDarchive/199806/msg00209.html
http://www.loopers-delight.com/LDarchive/199806/msg00219.html
http://www.loopers-delight.com/LDarchive/199903/msg00170.html
http://www.loopers-delight.com/LDarchive/200005/msg00270.html

there are many more. Dig into the Looper's Delight mailing list archives, 
you will find a tremendous source of info there.

kim



______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                     | Looper's Delight
kflint@loopers-delight.com    | http://www.loopers-delight.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 17 07:04:00 2001
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 03:36:21 -0800 (PST)
From: John Tidwell <wedgehed@yahoo.com>
Subject: AdrenaLinn Info Now Online
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This thing looks like fun!

http://64.224.173.102/products/adrenalinn.shtml


John



=====
John Tidwell




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

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Blue  Universe  -Concierto
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Daniel=20
To: stickwire-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM=20
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 9:56 AM
Subject: Fw: Blue Universe -Concierto (para los argentinos)







Luego de presentar su Cd =B3entre el sue=F1o y la vigilia=B2 por varias =
ciudades de Espa=F1a y Holanda, el Stickista argentino Sebasti=E1n =
Woscoboinik y su proyecto instrumental BLUE UNIVERSE se presentar=E1 =
durante el mes de diciembre en argentina. El viernes 14 de diciembre lo =
har=E1 en el C=E1tulo Castillo -Scalabrini Ort=EDz 1685- a las 22hs =
(puntual). Y el martes 18 en la ciudad de Bahia Blanca en el Teatro =
Municipal de esa misma ciudad a las 21hs.


Sebastian: Grand Stick, RealTimeLoops, Programaci=F3n  y teclados

Presentaci=F3n Capital Federal: viernes 14 de diciembre a las 22hs. =
Catulo Castillo. $5 (con una consumici=F3n)
Presentaci=F3n Bahia Blanca: 18 de diciembre. Teatro Municipal. 21hs. =
$3.



  -----Si no desea recibir m=E1s inforaci=F3n sobre este artista, =
simplemente haga un reply de este email poniendo en el  =20
     subject UNSUBCRIBE . Gracias----------



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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Blue =A0Universe =A0-Concierto</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
title=3Ddaniel_c@vtr.net href=3D"mailto:daniel_c@vtr.net">Daniel</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dstickwire-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM=20
href=3D"mailto:stickwire-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM">stickwire-L@HOME.EASE.LSO=
FT.COM</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 17, 2001 9:56 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Fw: Blue Universe -Concierto (para los=20
argentinos)</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT size=3D4><FONT face=3DTimes>Luego =
de=20
presentar su Cd =B3entre el sue=F1o y la vigilia=B2 por varias ciudades =
de Espa=F1a y=20
Holanda, el Stickista argentino Sebasti=E1n Woscoboinik y su proyecto =
instrumental=20
<B>BLUE UNIVERSE</B> se presentar=E1 durante el mes de diciembre en =
argentina. El=20
<B>viernes 14 de diciembre</B> lo har=E1 en el <B>C=E1tulo Castillo =
-Scalabrini=20
Ort=EDz 1685- a las 22hs</B> (puntual). Y el martes 18 en la ciudad de =
Bahia=20
Blanca en el Teatro Municipal de esa misma ciudad a las=20
21hs.<BR><BR><BR><B>Sebastian</B>: Grand Stick, RealTimeLoops, =
Programaci=F3n=20
&nbsp;y teclados<BR><BR><B>Presentaci=F3n Capital Federal</B>: viernes =
14 de=20
diciembre a las 22hs. Catulo Castillo. $5 (con una=20
consumici=F3n)<BR><B>Presentaci=F3n Bahia Blanca:</B> 18 de diciembre. =
Teatro=20
Municipal. 21hs. $3.<BR></FONT></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT size=3D4><FONT face=3DTimes><BR><BR>-----Si no desea =
recibir m=E1s=20
  inforaci=F3n sobre este artista, simplemente haga un reply de este =
email=20
  poniendo en el &nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;subject UNSUBCRIBE .=20
  Gracias----------<BR></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 17 11:55:39 2001
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 <p04310104b8432f25c058@[192.168.0.5]>
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 08:19:46 -0800
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From: rich <rich@nuvisionsca.com>
Subject: Re: app to convert/read AKAI disk image on Mac
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http://www.bitheadz.com

they have a program called Osmosis, that sounds like what you're looking for.

best,

rich


>how-D all,
>
>i uh.. came across.. a disk image of samples called Terminator, in 
>AKAI format i think, and my normal apps (on Mac OS) can not mount 
>the image. does anyone know a piece of software that will allow me 
>to either convert or read the samples on this disk image?
>
>thanks-in-advance,
>jeff

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[somebody:]

> > & it
> >sounds like he might have used it on the Polytown record BUT

> not sure on
> >that one. ??

[dt/SC:]

> no, definitely not --- 'twas a lexicon pcm80.

Hate to sound like an arse-hole, but for
the record (literally!), it was a PCM 70.
Probably a PCM 80 for the tour (a year 
later!) though.

-peter



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 17 12:39:04 2001
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pbadore@rochester.rr.com writes:
>I don't like people left and right e-mailing my private address. 

as it's been a while, i can't really remember why i emailed you, privately 
--- maybe it was because this had become so clearly 'off-topic', maybe it was 
merely another of my mistakes.

pb>I dislike LD for printing them.  I occasionally make exceptions but this 
is not one
>of them.  During this past month I debated whether to reply to this or not
>and have obviously decided.  I would appreciate it if you would leave me 
alone
>after this, and if you attempt to do otherwise I'll delete your message
>unread.  Feel free to submit a copy of this to LD as I don't feel like
>resubscribing just for the sake of one letter.

i'll admit that i'm confused, here, again --- maybe you could let me know if 
you receive this email;
i will post it to LD, w/your post intact --- as maybe you'll only see it, 
there, presuming that you continue to scan the LD archives.....

pb>> >What about *interpretation*, the key issue here?  I resent your sarcasm
>> >represented by the asterisks,

dt>> on the subject of interpretation --- i use asterisks in my email to 
merely
>> *stress* a word, not for sarcasm.
>> i'm not a sarcastic guy.

pb>I seem to recall "elecTORNica".  Everyone is sarcastic one way or another.

that wasn't meant as sarcasm, just cheap humor.


pb>There is also no need for you to stress anything.  Just write your messages
>straight.

well, that's how i speak, as well --- with exaggerated dynamics; though, i 
have often been accused of verbal ellipsis.


pb>> >but I also apologize if I wasn't clear enough
>> >at the beginning.

dt>> don't worry; we're just talking, & i apparently misunderstood  your
>> intentions.

pb>> >I assure everyone I'm not crazy or making this up when
>> >I say I found a few downloads on either LD (might have been CD1 but
>they're
>> >deleted) or off Elephant Talk but can't recall exactly where.

i *certainly* never said nor implied anything about anyone being 'crazy'.
  

pb>> >Earlier
>> >today
>> >I made a search but to no avail.  But these people labelled their work
>> >"Soundscapes" in relation to KC material.  Hence my comments.

dt>> is that where this started?
>> again --- i had no idea that this is what you were talking about referring
>> to ---
>> confusion.

pb>Then why did you get involved in the first place? 

i got involved, as i was tweaked at the thought that someone (whom i thought 
was new at LD) might mis-perceive *all* loop-people to be dedicated to 
slavishly aping robert fripp's 'soundscapes';
i was not aware that you were specifically referring to downloads at a 
particular website;
my mistake!


pb>I've looked at the
>archives and notice there's rarely a subject you haven't added your two
>cents to. 

well, this may be wrong, but..... i am trying to continue w/some kinda 
participitation in/contribution to the looping-'community', and, since i do 
this looping-thing pretty much every day, i figure there ought to be *some* 
useful-to-somebody-bits in a portion of the crap that i spout..... but, maybe 
not:
that's one risk that i continue to take --- that of being an ass, and 
publicly so.


pb>The original subject was "KC in SF - No Loop Content".  Naturally
>Crimsonesque & Frippesque terms were bound to be used.  Aside from our
>argument I've probably inputted about three times and only if it's something
>I was familiar with.  You don't see me blabbing about David Torn, do you?
>Unless, of course, he tried to attack me with some stupid misinterpretation
>of my comments!  If you don't know or care to know about something, STAY
>OUT
>OF IT!!! (Now THAT's stress!)

pb>> >But

dt>> why, but?

pb>Why not?  Again, I don't really want to know.

pb>> >let's put your original thoughts in a proper perspective.  If I said:
>> >"Hey you motherfuckin' asshole loopers!  You don't know shit about what
>> >you're doin'!  All you're doing is copying soundscapes which was invented
>> >by the great Robert Fripp years ago after he created Frippertronics.
>> >Copycat candyasses!"
>> >NOW I deserve every counterattack from the past couple of days!  However,
>> >I accept your apology; but please keep in mind you started a precedent


dt>> if i started a precedent, that precedent was not meant as a personal
>>attack,


pb>But ya DID, Blanche,  ya DID make a personal attack!

well, that was truly unintentional;
i thought that i was addressing what appeared to be an 'issue' --- at least, 
for me.
and:
i have every hope & confidence that your personal & musical contributions to 
this screwy world are broadly valuable, either now or in the future.


dt>> just my thoughts & responses presented in this environment which
>encourages
>> the exchange of ideas.


pb>Yeah, at my expense.

that's not at all what i meant to do; that's the mistake for which i 
apologise.


dt>> i am indeed sorry that you perceived it otherwise;
>> i meant no personal harm.


pb>> >that
>> >fortunately is now waning, aside from Sottilaro's continuing childishness
>> >which has long worn out  (even I stopped the hanky lines).  Our society
>> >today enjoys attacking itself and who cares if there's no real reason
>for
>> >it?

so, why, then, would you stoop to attacking mark sottilaro's innocently 
good-humored posts?



dt>> actually, there was a reason for my response, which i tried to make 
clear.


pb>No, you didn't.

i *tried* to make it clear. to reiterate:
i was tweaked at the thought that someone (whom i thought was new at LD) 
might mis-perceive *all* loop-people to be dedicated to slavishly aping 
robert fripp's 'soundscapes';
i was not aware that you were specifically referring to downloads at a 
particular website;
my mistake!


pb>> >I'm also sorry I wasted everyone's time, including my own.  Once I had
>> >gotten everything together I was hoping to put something on LD, but
>now
>> >everything's gone to waste.  Perhaps in time I'll either return or -
>more
>> >likely - find another outlet for my music.

i sincerely hope that you find an outlet for your music, at LD or otherwise.


dt>> while i'm not sure that i consider LD as an outlet for music, it is a 
good
>> place for expressing ideas / information / thoughts, as regards looping &
>> such; there are *many* threads besides this one (see the archives), and i
>> think it might be the only net-place that is really loop-centric ---
>> sorry if you are somehow dissuaded from hanging.


pb>"Somehow"??  I'm a villain because of your assumption and don't argue this!

i certainly do *not* perceive you as a villain!
i perceive you as someone with whom i've had a somewhat obtuse verbal 
misunderstanding.


pb>I admit I'm hardly what you'd call a professional, but does that mean 
people
>of your caliber need to look down your noses at people of mine?

i do not 'look down my nose' at you; i was --- or, so i thought --- trying to 
bring another perspective to the discussion.
 

pb>It strikes me odd that you have so much time on your hands to participate 
in this!

huh?


pb>Even Fripp only contributes to ET once every few years!

..... does that statement imply that you believe that i should, as a rule, 
follow his example? while i love & respect RF, that is not gonna happen:
different strokes, etc.


pb>I am disgusted that LD has turned into both a forum for you (a lot of 
gushing)

well, if ya hung around, it'd be a forum for you, too..... as it seems to be 
for other folks.


pb>and a commercial site for the Repeater

actually, i'd say that the majority of posts relate directly to the EDP, 
though repeater has (naturally, due to its recent release date) made a strong 
showing, as have the jamman, boomerang, line6, orville, bossRC20, kyma, acid, 
headrush, etc etc.....


pb>(a piece of shit, if you ask me).  

while not perfect -(but what looper is everything, to all users?)- i'm quite 
happy with my repeater --- it's been a very, very useful tool, for me, among 
others.


pb>I used to work voluntarily as a DJ at a radio station in the Rochester
>Institute of Technology and found nothing there but a bunch of technical
>yesmen who all said the same thing.  That's why I left LD:  Last month
>was a rerun of those horrible days (although I gotta admit, the debates that
>resulted did bring some humanity to the dullness).

i'm sorry to hear of the recall of bad memories, and of the dullness.


dt>> best,
>> dt / s-c

pb>I'd hate to see your worst.
>PB

damn, that's cold.
dt / s-c

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 17 12:39:31 2001
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pete,
>Hate to sound like an arse-hole, but for
>the record (literally!), it was a PCM 70.
>Probably a PCM 80 for the tour (a year 
>later!) though.
yeah, you're right.
which means that the dhp55 or the ips33b was there, as well.
sorry!
best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 17 12:50:15 2001
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From: Ken <kenzo@free-music.com>
Subject: NYCgig:Ken'sLastEverRadioExtravaganzaWed12-19@Siberia
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Ken's Last Ever Radio Extravaganza
Wed. Dec. 19, 9pm
Siberia: 365 W. 40th St. (8th & 9th Aves.), NYC
Free

The night's lineup:
-- Pocket Zoo
     "...like a one man zoo, but in your pocket..."
-- ThemsGoodEatin
     "...slow, droney hypno rock with a heady baroque tip..."
-- Ask The Dust
     "...a carousel of swirling ballerinas..."
-- Ken's Last Ever Radio Extravaganza
     "...a 32-piece orchestra of 17th-century instruments, controlled by hypnosis..."

(note: first violinist sick, replacement needed. serious offers only)

(k.l.e.r.e. is dominated by loops)
---
Ears: http://free-music.com/ken/extrav/audio/
Fingers: http://free-music.com/ken/extrav/
Toes: kenzo@free-music.com 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 17 14:17:07 2001
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--=====================_12819459==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

hey yall

anyone got a clue where i might get ahold of shop manuals for the old 161 
and 160? i have a generationally weary photocopy of the owners manual, and 
while it does include a very fuzzy schematic (it might serve - it only cuts 
off at the edges slightly!), i have no component list to go along with.

dr zovnar? anybody?

a:c

...can you imagine??? owners manuals used to include SCHEMATICS! what a 
quaint notion!!!


++++++++
just what the world needs....
<http://www.tensionheadache.org/>another frikkin url

--=====================_12819459==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
hey yall<br>
<br>
anyone got a clue where i might get ahold of shop manuals for the old 161
and 160? i have a generationally weary photocopy of the owners manual,
and while it does include a very fuzzy schematic (it might serve - it
only cuts off at the edges slightly!), i have no component list to go
along with. <br>
<br>
dr zovnar? anybody?<br>
<br>
a:c<br>
<br>
...can you imagine??? owners manuals used to include SCHEMATICS! what a
quaint notion!!!<br>
<br>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
<div align="center">
++++++++<br>
just what the world needs.... <br>
<a href="http://www.tensionheadache.org/">another </a>frikkin url<br>
</div>
</html>

--=====================_12819459==_.ALT--

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Subject: BATTERY POWERED PREAMPS?
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Can anyone hip me to any inexpensive (but good sounding) battery powered
preamps?

I have this perverse desire to take one, a mic, my line 6 DL-4 and a Hognose
amp down to our mall and do some guerilla loop performances.

I have a line on a Shure PF-11 which lists for $377 and which has been
offered to me for $199.........what do you guys think?

yours,  Rick Walker (loop.pool)

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Mark Landman wrote:

<But seeing Fripp do his Frippertronics thing live at the Mabuhay Gardens
(an old punk rock icon) in July of 1979 was a powerful experience.>


Wow, Mark, reading yours and Max's posts really made me feel nostalgic
and......................

..........I was at the same Frippertronics gig at the Fab Mab in '79!!!!

 Amazing!!!

I screwed up my courage and went up to talk to Fripp (who was like a major
god to me then----he's still kind of a minor deity to this day) and waited
until everyone talked to him and approached him.   I had studied with
Gregory Bateson in college and his name came up and we ended up having this
pretty long conversation about Summerhill and alternative education.  He was
really nice and genuinely seemed to care about what I had to say.  I was
impressed by his
'realness' (he, after all, was a god :-).


ah............as Bill McNeil would say in News Radio,  "Good times....good
times?

Rick Walker (loop.pool)

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From: "Bill Fox" <billfox@fast.net>
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Subject: EMUSIC Playlist #247
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 15:22:00 -0500
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[ Best viewed using a fixed spacing font. ]

EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show, airs each Thursday
at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem, PA and 93.9 FM in
Easton, PA and Phillipsburg, NJ.

                    Show #247                    December 13, 2001.


RECAP:
On this show, I continued the month-long focus on Orbital Decay, a band from
near-by Quakertown.  Influenced by the likes of Tangerine Dream, Klaus Shulze,
and Pink Floyd, Orbital Decay makes electronic space music with the
improvisational qualities and the energy of fusion styles from the 70s.  As a
special holiday treat, Orbital Decay will perform a live, in-studio, on-air
concert during the December 27th program.  The Featured CD at Midnight was the
band's self released CDR "Re-Entry."

The vinyl show starter, a new feature of the show leftover from WDIY's Salute
to Records, was by Don Slepian.

Orbital Decay
http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic/playlists/2001/focus01.html#dec


PLAYLIST:

ARTIST                  TRACK                    ALBUM (label)
======================= ======================== ==============================
11:04 pm
Don Slepian             Horizon                  Computer Don't Breakdown (Don
                                                   & Judy Records)
Geodesium               The Andromeda            Stellar Collections (Loch Ness
                          Collection               Productions)
Tales                   The Vashkan Rebellion    The Seskian Wars (SIT Records)
Samuel Pellman          Ares Vallis              Audio Destinations (none)
Radio Massacre          Echoes *                 Planet in the Wires (Northern
  International                                    Echo Recordings)

12:00 am
Orbital Decay           Re-Entry                 Re-Entry (none)
Orbital Decay           Salt 4C                  Re-Entry (none)
Orbital Decay           Y2K Eve                  Re-Entry (none)

1:00 am

 * = exerpt
VA = Various Artists (compilation)


NEXT SHOW:
On the next EMUSIC, I'll continue the month-long focus on Orbital Decay.  The
Featured CD at Midnight will be the band's "Orbital Decay" CDR.

Next week's vinyl show starter will be by Mark Isham.


Bill        billfox@fast.net           http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic
===============================================================================
Host of EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show.  Thursdays at
11 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem and 93.9 FM in Easton and
Phillipsburg.  Email me if you wish to submit music for airplay consideration.
Radio Station Home Page: http://wdiyfm.org
Personal site: http://www.users.fast.net/~billfox
To subscribe to the EMUSIC on WDIY list, go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/emusic-wdiy and click on [Join This Group!]

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 17 15:51:32 2001
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try raven labs?????

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Walker (loop.pool) [mailto:GLOBAL@cruzio.com]
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:45 AM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: BATTERY POWERED PREAMPS?


Can anyone hip me to any inexpensive (but good sounding) battery powered
preamps?

I have this perverse desire to take one, a mic, my line 6 DL-4 and a Hognose
amp down to our mall and do some guerilla loop performances.

I have a line on a Shure PF-11 which lists for $377 and which has been
offered to me for $199.........what do you guys think?

yours,  Rick Walker (loop.pool)


<font size="1">Confidentiality Warning:  This e-mail contains information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above.  If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, any dissemination, publication or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. The sender does not accept any responsibility for any loss, disruption or damage to your data or computer system that may occur while using data contained in, or transmitted with, this e-mail.   If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us by return e-mail.  Thank you.


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<P><FONT SIZE=2>try raven labs?????</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Rick Walker (loop.pool) [<A HREF="mailto:GLOBAL@cruzio.com">mailto:GLOBAL@cruzio.com</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:45 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: BATTERY POWERED PREAMPS?</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Can anyone hip me to any inexpensive (but good sounding) battery powered</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>preamps?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>I have this perverse desire to take one, a mic, my line 6 DL-4 and a Hognose</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>amp down to our mall and do some guerilla loop performances.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>I have a line on a Shure PF-11 which lists for $377 and which has been</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>offered to me for $199.........what do you guys think?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>yours,&nbsp; Rick Walker (loop.pool)</FONT>
</P>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 17 16:07:58 2001
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Rick: I Use a Raven Labs PHA-1, which is an instrument preamp, in my bass 
rig.  Outstanding unit with 100 hrs. or so on two 9v batts.  Being an inst. 
pre, it only has unbalanced ins (but two, discreet inputs) and also doubles 
as a nifty headphone/practice amp with two headphone outs and a sidechain 
(parallel) aux loop. and 1/3 rack size (small and portable)  Dead 
quiet..superior headroom, pristine sound.  Don't know exactly how it would 
work with a mic...but I could try it out!  Either need to use an adaptor to 
go from low/xlr to0 high imp/1/4"..or a specialized cable with XLR on one 
end and 1/4 on the other....
Max

_________________________________________________________________
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Oh..yea, BTW they are around $250 I think.  Available thru Raven Labs.
I just tried it with a mic and a 1/4" to XLR cable I had lying around.
You do need to crank the gain a bit...but it is still quiet, and it works!
Max

_________________________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 17 16:18:04 2001
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Rick..I wasn't at the Mabuhay in '79, but on one my first ever trips to 
California, maybe '78 or '79, I did get to see Mr. Fripp and Revoxes at the 
Monterey fairgrounds!  geez, I think the Knack was there too!
Max

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Hedewa7@aol.com wrote:

(big snip)

>
> pb>I'd hate to see your worst.
> >PB
>
> damn, that's cold.
> dt / s-c

pb i don't know, and quite frankly i'm not interested in even looking up in the
archive to learn more about, due to the tone of his/her responses herein (and
maybe that's not fair), but, for the record, i typically open a great many of the
posts by dt, even if the subject line is not of particular interest, if only to
sample the well-balanced voice of one who's life experiences seem to have had a
favorable effect on both his music and his dealings with other people...pb can
call this *gushing* or whathaveyou, but i can't agree with the notion that the
list has become some sort of *forum* for mr. torn- his musings are as appreciated
on this list as anyone's (and there are many, many more who regularly and
not-so-regularly contribute ideas whom i appreciate just as well). god forbid we
should start censoring ourselves on account of one person's bitter perspective.

lance g.




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In a message dated 12/17/01 6:38:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
wedgehed@yahoo.com writes:


> This thing looks like fun!
> 
> http://64.224.173.102/products/adrenalinn.shtml
> 

agreed.....:)m

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 12/17/01 6:38:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, wedgehed@yahoo.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">This thing looks like fun!<BR>
<BR>
http://64.224.173.102/products/adrenalinn.shtml<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
agreed.....:)m</FONT></HTML>

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In a message dated 12/17/01 2:44:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
GLOBAL@cruzio.com writes:


> I have this perverse desire 

rick, rick, rick.....:)m

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 12/17/01 2:44:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, GLOBAL@cruzio.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I have this perverse desire </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
rick, rick, rick.....:)m</FONT></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 17 18:50:49 2001
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From: landman@wco.com (Mark Landman)
Subject: Frippertronics at the Mab/ was FIRST LOOPING MEMORIES
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Rick,

That is indeed somewhat amazing that we were "there", and are now "here".

It seems a disproportunately large amount of LD'ers were powerfully
motivated/inspired by RF & Frippertronics, which also amazes me, because,
frankly for years I thought nobody else would be interested in that sort of
thing...

I would imagine it's a pleasant thing for RF to know that something he did
affected people in a lasting and positive manner.

Mark


>Mark Landman wrote:
>
><But seeing Fripp do his Frippertronics thing live at the Mabuhay Gardens
>(an old punk rock icon) in July of 1979 was a powerful experience.>
>
>
>Wow, Mark, reading yours and Max's posts really made me feel nostalgic
>and......................
>
>..........I was at the same Frippertronics gig at the Fab Mab in '79!!!!
>
> Amazing!!!
>
>I screwed up my courage and went up to talk to Fripp (who was like a major
>god to me then----he's still kind of a minor deity to this day) and waited
>until everyone talked to him and approached him.   I had studied with
>Gregory Bateson in college and his name came up and we ended up having this
>pretty long conversation about Summerhill and alternative education.  He was
>really nice and genuinely seemed to care about what I had to say.  I was
>impressed by his
>'realness' (he, after all, was a god :-).
>
>
>ah............as Bill McNeil would say in News Radio,  "Good times....good
>times?
>
>Rick Walker (loop.pool)


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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 19:05:50 EST
Subject: More gratuitous self promotion
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Hi all,

I've been busy sending out CDs and have actually gotten some airplay.
If you happen to be within broadcast range of any of these outfits. Each of 
the 
following has sent the label a playlist  that says they've actually put my
noodlings on the air (sometime in the wee hours no doubt in most cases --
on some misanthropic DJ's rant hour -- but who cares). I'm thrilled.


WNCW 88.7 FM        Spindale NC
WSIA 88.9 FM        Staten Island, NY
CKUT 90.3 FM        Montreal, Quebec
WSUM 91.7 FM        Madison, WI
CFLX 95.5 FM        Sherbrooke, Québec
KUCI.88.9 FM        Irvine,CA
KAPSAI FM 100.2 Lithuania
WOMR 92.1 FM        Provincetown, MA
KDSU 91.9 FM        Fargo, ND
FRK 105.8 FM        Kassel, Germany
CJAM 91.5 FM        Windsor, Ontario
KCSB 91.9 FM        Santa Barbara, CA
3D Radio 93.7FM Adelaide, Australia
CIUT 89.5 FM        Toronto, Ontario
WXYC 89.3 FM         Chapel Hill, NC

Just thought I'd share the joy.

Best,

Ted Killian

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In a message dated 12/17/01 7:08:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
KILLINFO@aol.com writes:


> I'm thrilled.
> 

ted.....you should be!.....very cool.....:)m

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 12/17/01 7:08:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, KILLINFO@aol.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I'm thrilled.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
ted.....you should be!.....very cool.....:)m</FONT></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 17 20:29:33 2001
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From: Steve Lawson <steve@steve-lawson.co.uk>
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>>> Rick: I Use a Raven Labs PHA-1, which is an instrument preamp, in my bass
rig.  Outstanding unit with 100 hrs. or so on two 9v batts.  Being an inst.
pre, it only has unbalanced ins (but two, discreet inputs) and also doubles
as a nifty headphone/practice amp with two headphone outs and a sidechain
(parallel) aux loop. and 1/3 rack size (small and portable)  Dead
quiet..superior headroom, pristine sound.  Don't know exactly how it would
work with a mic...but I could try it out!  Either need to use an adaptor to
go from low/xlr to0 high imp/1/4"..or a specialized cable with XLR on one
end and 1/4 on the other....
Max<<<

Definitely second the raven Labs endorsement - amazing quality gear for
relatively little dough...

For a Mic, you might want to try the Master Blender - that way you get two
channels to blend into one, one has the right impedance for a mic (and even
the option of Phantom Power methinks) and the other is better for a pickup -
could be just what the doc ordered. separate three band EQ for each, option
to have FX loop on both, or one on each, LXR out, jack out, and it may, if
asked nicely, scan your computer for malicious viruses and filter LD for off
topic content to save you having to read it... :o)

big up to Raven Labs, says me - I've got their Mixer/DI (MDB-1),
Preamp/Headphone amp (PHA-1) Master Blender and DI Box - the only one I'm
missing is the True Blue EQ, which is also a fantastic little, and may well
end up in my rig before too long... :o)

Steve 
www.steve-lawson.co.uk 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 17 21:20:53 2001
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:51:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Elio DeLuca <elio@telepathyrecords.com>
Subject: Radio Promo (was: Re: More gratuitous self promotion)
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For future reference, the folks at WMFO-FM in Medford, MA do a solid job
of promoting new music, and are always up for receiving CD's of stuff.
The station is at 91.5 FM, and has streaming audio at wmfo.org. It's one
of the smaller-wattage college stations in the Boston area, but the
programming is totally freeform (DJ-chosen), and there's wide support for
the local scene, especially the new and different. I run tech down there
for on-air bands sometimes, and have worked with them for many years
producing shows & events. Even used their studios to record, late-night, a
few times, and quite successfully.

Send CD's to:

	Music Director
	WMFO-FM
	P.O. Box 65
	Medford, MA 02155

Always trying to get loopy music on the air....

Elio

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 17 22:47:11 2001
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From: Miko Biffle <biffoz@pacbell.net>
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Ok... I was at the Mab gig as well... took a girlfriend who was pretty
confused by it all, but it was really cool to see him do his thing. He did
manage to slip in a tiresome lecture about photography and why he doesn't
allow it after someone tried to take some pictures.

-Miko

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Rick Walker (loop.pool) [mailto:GLOBAL@cruzio.com]
>Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:54 AM
>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>Subject: Re: FIRST LOOPING MEMORIES
>
>
>Mark Landman wrote:
>
><But seeing Fripp do his Frippertronics thing live at the Mabuhay Gardens
>(an old punk rock icon) in July of 1979 was a powerful experience.>
>
>
>Wow, Mark, reading yours and Max's posts really made me feel nostalgic
>and......................
>
>..........I was at the same Frippertronics gig at the Fab Mab in '79!!!!
>
> Amazing!!!
>
>I screwed up my courage and went up to talk to Fripp (who was like a major
>god to me then----he's still kind of a minor deity to this day) and waited
>until everyone talked to him and approached him.   I had studied with
>Gregory Bateson in college and his name came up and we ended up having this
>pretty long conversation about Summerhill and alternative
>education.  He was
>really nice and genuinely seemed to care about what I had to say.  I was
>impressed by his
>'realness' (he, after all, was a god :-).
>
>
>ah............as Bill McNeil would say in News Radio,  "Good times....good
>times?
>
>Rick Walker (loop.pool)
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 17 22:49:15 2001
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Subject:  Re:  FIRST LOOPING MEMORIES
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My first personal looping experience was around 1975, and a high school
buddy had set up a couple of two track tape machines in his living room and
I got to plug in my key lime colored gretsch anniversary and experience the
magic. Later perhaps around 1984 I saw Paul Drescher do the same thing with
a modified tape machine at the Kuumbwa Jazz  Center in Santa Cruz, very
cool. Also, sometime in the mid to late eighties I remember seeing David
Torn at the winter NAMM show demo-ing for Yamaha, though I can't seem to
recall if he was looping or not. I do remember him being very musical. This
is not often the case at NAMM shows, which seem to glorify wanking, and
this was in the "Big Hair" eighties when shred was king. He was also very
open with his knowledge and very patient with everyone, no matter how
rudimentary the questions.
chillyb


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  Hello,
  I wanted to ask the listers about their approach to
  looping in a live setting.(either solo are as part
  of a group) If, you are playing solo, do you take
  the pre-thought out approach, or do you fly by the
  seat of your pants? If, you're playing with a group,
  do you have pre-recorded parts that you fly in or,
  do you improvise the loop sections of songs?
  Thanks!
  Chris Olden


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 17 23:24:42 2001
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From: Richard Zvonar <zvonar@zvonar.com>
Subject: Re: FIRST LOOPING MEMORIES
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At 2:51 PM -0800 12/14/01, Rick Walker (loop.pool) wrote:

>How about a FIRST LOOOPING MEMORIES THREAD?

To put this time line in perspective, I was born in 1946, started 
elementary school in 1950, and graduated high school in 1963:

Long before I ever became aware of looping per se as musical process, 
I had a fondness for "weird" science fiction movie music and novelty 
sound effects. I was a regular listener to the Big John and Sparky 
radio program (1950-58), wherein Sparky's voice was a sped-up 
recording, and marveled at the sounds of theremin and homebrew 
electronics in films such as The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951), 
Invaders from Mars (1953), Forbidden Planet (1956).

The first time I ever saw someone demonstrate double tracking was on 
the Walt Disney TV show, circa 1955. Peggy Lee did the voices of the 
two Siamese cats in Lady and the Tramp. Around this same time I used 
to hear Les Paul and Mary Ford's jingles for Robert Hall clothes on 
the radio. Lots of multitracking and tape-speed manipulation.

When "The Witch Doctor" came out in 1958 I became a big fan of David 
Saville, and after he released the "Chipmunk Song" later that year my 
friends and I started playing around with tape recorders to imitate 
chipmunk voices. But this was just a lot of fooling around; my only 
real musical activity from childhood through high school was as a 
singer.

It wasn't until my late teens that I got serious. In 1965 I got 
psychedelicized, both chemically and intellectually, and in 1966 I 
started playing quasi-professionally in a band. Although the band 
itself was strictly folk rock/psychedelic with guitars (a little 
banjo), bass, drums, and vocals, my listening went far beyond. During 
1966-67 I rapidly got an education about electronic music, musique 
concrete, and live electroacoustic music. Pieces that were essential 
to this education were Steve Reich's "Come Out" (1966), Pauline 
Oliveros's "I of IV" (1967), Luciano Berio's "Thema (Omaggio a 
Joyce)" (1958).

In 1969 I saw/heard John Cage and David Tudor perform with the Merce 
Cunningham Dance Company and I composed my first multimedia piece for 
film with four spatially-separated tapes of manipulated sounds. I 
followed this with a film for three synchronized films, an adaptation 
of an Ionesco play called "Salutation" for three actors. Many of the 
techniques and compositional structures in this film were related to 
musical loop processes, i.e. layering, repetition, multiple 
perspectives on the same material.

After a few years playing more straight-ahead rock music and making 
more straight-ahead films I found myself in Santa Cruz in 1975 and 
enrolled in Cabrillo College, where the music department had a New 
Music Ensemble and an Audio Arts program directed by Bob Beede. Bob 
had a Buchla Music Easel, and I started performing with him and a few 
others. A lot of what we played was improvised "pattern music," 
inspired by Terry Riley, Steve Reich, and other so-called 
"minimalists." Our typical setup used a delay system made of two 
4-track reel-to-reel decks with the tape treaded between them. As I 
recall, we didn't normally use regeneration on the signal path, so 
the effect was mainly a straight canonic repetition with only a small 
amount of feedback due to bleed into the microphones. Having four 
tracks of tape allowed us to have individual delays routed to their 
own speakers in a quad sound system. On one piece we had short delays 
from two playback heads of Machine #1 in the front channels and long 
delays from Machine #2 in the rear channels.

I moved to San Diego in 1977 to attend graduate school, and for two 
years I lived with Paul Dresher. Paul was very much into tape delay 
systems at the time. At home he would play guitar through a funky 
system in his bedroom, using a couple of cheap old tape decks, but in 
the tape studio at school he was using the half-inch 4-track (with 
erase head defeated) for some serious loopage. These experiments led 
to the design of his 4-track performance looper, based on a modified 
TASCAM 40-4 deck and a voltage controlled matrix mixer. A pair of 
long metal arms supported a 20-30" tape loop, and in addition to the 
stock Record and Playback heads, the tape deck had and additional 
Playback head mounted at the halfway point in the loop. The outputs 
and feedback paths from each of the three heads could be controlled 
through the VCA mixer by means of a set of 24 foot pedals, and the 
signal routing was done manually with push buttons. This system was 
built in collaboration with music department technician (and 
guitarist) Paul Tydelski.  It is the system Bill Walker referred to 
at the Kuumbwa gig in 1984.

Partly because Paul was becoming such an obvious master at tape-based 
looping, I followed different avenues. I spent a lot of hours working 
with the school's Buchla 100 Series modular system, which had four 
analog step sequencers. I also did a lot of work with tape loops as 
part of some of my tape pieces, but most of the time this was used to 
prolong individual transient sounds from percussion instruments and 
the like. I also used some loops in the backing tape for the Diamanda 
Galas piece "Panoptikon" (1982), turning the sound of her ring 
modulated voice into a huge chugging engine from hell.


-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 17 23:50:18 2001
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yep, i'll second (or third) the raven labs master blender recommendation.
i used one for a couple years when i gigged on doublebass regularly.
fantastic piece. i still have it and it sees little use if someone is
interested.  the mixer/di would suit my needs better now.

tony
tony-moore@juno.com

On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 01:00:57 +0000 Steve Lawson
<steve@steve-lawson.co.uk> writes:
> >>> Rick: I Use a Raven Labs PHA-1, which is an instrument preamp, in 
> my bass
> rig.  Outstanding unit with 100 hrs. or so on two 9v batts.  Being 
> an inst.
> pre, it only has unbalanced ins (but two, discreet inputs) and also 
> doubles
> as a nifty headphone/practice amp with two headphone outs and a 
> sidechain
> (parallel) aux loop. and 1/3 rack size (small and portable)  Dead
> quiet..superior headroom, pristine sound.  Don't know exactly how it 
> would
> work with a mic...but I could try it out!  Either need to use an 
> adaptor to
> go from low/xlr to0 high imp/1/4"..or a specialized cable with XLR 
> on one
> end and 1/4 on the other....
> Max<<<
> 
> Definitely second the raven Labs endorsement - amazing quality gear 
> for
> relatively little dough...
> 
> For a Mic, you might want to try the Master Blender - that way you 
> get two
> channels to blend into one, one has the right impedance for a mic 
> (and even
> the option of Phantom Power methinks) and the other is better for a 
> pickup -
> could be just what the doc ordered. separate three band EQ for each, 
> option
> to have FX loop on both, or one on each, LXR out, jack out, and it 
> may, if
> asked nicely, scan your computer for malicious viruses and filter LD 
> for off
> topic content to save you having to read it... :o)
> 
> big up to Raven Labs, says me - I've got their Mixer/DI (MDB-1),
> Preamp/Headphone amp (PHA-1) Master Blender and DI Box - the only 
> one I'm
> missing is the True Blue EQ, which is also a fantastic little, and 
> may well
> end up in my rig before too long... :o)
> 
> Steve 
> www.steve-lawson.co.uk 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 18 01:39:06 2001
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From: Mike Killian <kili@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Newbie question; the live approach
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I play solo guitar (and have just started playing an ADG 10 string
tapper) and use two boomerangs for looping.  I have 5 or 6 set pieces
that use looping.  I start with some of those to get my fingers loose
and make sure my gear is working OK.  Then after that, it depends on my
mood, what the room sounds like, what the crowd is like, etc.  I never
use pre-recorded or sequenced sounds, just whatever comes out at the
moment.

Mike Killian

Chris Olden wrote:

>   Hello,
>   I wanted to ask the listers about their approach to
>   looping in a live setting.(either solo are as part
>   of a group) If, you are playing solo, do you take
>   the pre-thought out approach, or do you fly by the
>   seat of your pants? If, you're playing with a group,
>   do you have pre-recorded parts that you fly in or,
>   do you improvise the loop sections of songs?
>   Thanks!
>   Chris Olden
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 18 02:26:06 2001
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References: <200112180034.TAA04205@hemlock.violacea.com>
Subject: PROPOSAL:  lets end this thread:    "Re: very OT: Re: Soundscapes/Frippertronics debate postscript"
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:00:17 -0800
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Lance G. wrote:

"pb i don't know, and quite frankly i'm not interested in even looking up in
the
archive to learn more about, due to the tone of his/her responses herein
(and
maybe that's not fair), but, for the record, i typically open a great many
of the
posts by dt, even if the subject line is not of particular interest, if only
to
sample the well-balanced voice of one who's life experiences seem to have
had a
favorable effect on both his music and his dealings with other people...pb
can
call this *gushing* or whathaveyou, but i can't agree with the notion that
the
list has become some sort of *forum* for mr. torn- his musings are as
appreciated
on this list as anyone's (and there are many, many more who regularly and
not-so-regularly contribute ideas whom i appreciate just as well). god
forbid we
should start censoring ourselves on account of one person's bitter
perspective."



Here, here, Lance!!   Being one who probably 'gushes' a bit too much on L.D.
(let's just call it 'enthusiasm' for looping and music) I am totally
appreciative of David Torn's input on this list.  He has been generous to a
fault with me, personally, and with all who come here with his considerable
intelligence and experience and I have learned a great deal and been
inspired a lot by his presence.

I didn't even follow this thread until today (haven't had the time) and I
was very impressed by how many times d/t bent over backwards to give this
disgruntled and angry gentleman a way out of his vitriol.........one he
never took, unfortunately.  d/t tried his best, acquitted himself well and
now we can all move on.......

yours, Rick Walker (loop.pool)




From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 18 02:33:54 2001
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Subject: RE: Newbie question; the live approach
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I have been doing a lot of fiddle tunes on acoustic guitar--just at home, no
gigs in months, although one looms on the horizon (Thursday) and is a duo
with a fiddle player and I plan to spring the Echoplex on him and the
unassuming audience--I shall provide a full report.  Usually tho, unplanned
sonic exploration with lots of listening on my part and little preparation
is the norm.  I bet if I was performing for an audience more regularly that
I would be playing tunes, tho--I have little faith in the listening public's
ability to pay attention to music they have never heard before, much less
stuff I haven't (quite) thought of yet.
I have a question that is along the same lines.  I know that with the
playback and storage capabilities of the Repeater, folks will be including
prerecorded audio into their live sets.  Anybody care to share how they are
approaching that?
Gary

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 18 04:39:08 2001
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Subject: Re: Re:Newbie question; the live approach
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At 3:22 AM +0000 12/18/01, Chris Olden wrote:
>  I wanted to ask the listers about their approach to  looping in a 
>live setting.

Almost all of the live looping I do is improvisational, and almost 
all of that has been me capturing loops of other people's performance 
or of recorded sources. In the past my main loopers have been 
Eventide H3000 and DSP4000, and TC2290. I now have an Eventide 
Orville, which I programmed as a 4-channel looper but haven't yet 
used in performance. I recently bought two Repeaters and have been 
using them with guitar, but don't have the gall to inflict that on an 
audience.

I sometimes use long loops with regeneration, indulging in the usual 
Frippery, but I'm more inclined to capture short loops of another 
performer's phrases. Once I have something captured I usually mess 
with it in a manner that depends a lot on the properties of the 
looping device. For instance, changing a loop length in an Eventide 
H3000 causes the pitch of the looped material to change to a higher 
or lower pitch depending on whether I've shortened or lengthened the 
loop, whereas changing a repeating sample playback in a TC2290 leaves 
the pitch alone.

Because I'm rarely performing on a conventional instrument, I can 
devote my attention to the looping system in such a way that it IS an 
instrument. Thus I rarely let looped material just "sit" in the 
musical texture. I often "capture and dump" material at a rapid pace, 
or I may capture several simultaneous loops of contrasting materials 
and bring them in and out of the mix.
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 18 07:26:21 2001
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From: "Per Boysen" <per@boysen.se>
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Subject: Re:Newbie question; the live approach
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 12:53:35 +0100
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 > Chris Olden wrote:
> >  I wanted to ask the listers about their approach to  looping in a
> >live setting.

To me, being on stage with a looping rig is like "being a teacher instead of
a being a writer". I mean, you have to let people see what you are doing,
not simply letting them hear sounds from the PA system. Traditional
instruments like guitar, sax and voice are already visual enough, but you
can do a lot to enhance performance values of other, more discrete, sounds
sources you are using.  So instead of using a CD player connected to my
looping rig I prefer to keep sounds on cassettes and use a small portable
cassette tape player to bring those sounds into the rig. If I'm "playing" an
electric guitar I'll simply hold the tape machine close to the pickups and
if I'm "playing" the saxophone I would bring the tape machines little
speaker up close to the mic.

But of course there is also this other concept where you want random to play
a big part besides musicians jamming. I would rather call this "an
installation"  than a "performance". I've done this only a little and hope
to get the opportunity for more "sound installation gigs". In this scenario
microphones hidden out among the audience are also going into the loops. So
if someone is saying "what the hell does this guy think he's doing" while
I'm in record mode on the EDP or Repeater - that spoken line will as well
start looping back. Sound leakage and overhearing between microphones can
also start off cool things while passing through delay lines or picking up
room ambience. If you leave a "sound on sound" loop for a long time it picks
up the "voice of the room" when certain frequencies, that are more heavily
reflected in that room, start to take over. I once put two tape recorders
with a several meters long tape loop in an art gallerie and after some three
hours they started howling like a bunch of tortured ghosts - until the owner
ran out an disconncted everything ;->  ("scaring customers from looking at
the art")

/per boysen

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 18 10:22:36 2001
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Subject: Re: FIRST LOOPING MEMORIES
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Richard, you have led a most fascinating life!

Dennis Leas
-------------------
dennis@mdbs.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richard Zvonar" <zvonar@zvonar.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: FIRST LOOPING MEMORIES


> At 2:51 PM -0800 12/14/01, Rick Walker (loop.pool) wrote:
> 
> >How about a FIRST LOOOPING MEMORIES THREAD?
> 
> To put this time line in perspective, I was born in 1946, started 
> elementary school in 1950, and graduated high school in 1963:
> 
> Long before I ever became aware of looping per se as musical process, 
> I had a fondness for "weird" science fiction movie music and novelty 
> sound effects. I was a regular listener to the Big John and Sparky 
> radio program (1950-58), wherein Sparky's voice was a sped-up 
> recording, and marveled at the sounds of theremin and homebrew 
> electronics in films such as The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951), 
> Invaders from Mars (1953), Forbidden Planet (1956).
> 
> The first time I ever saw someone demonstrate double tracking was on 
> the Walt Disney TV show, circa 1955. Peggy Lee did the voices of the 
> two Siamese cats in Lady and the Tramp. Around this same time I used 
> to hear Les Paul and Mary Ford's jingles for Robert Hall clothes on 
> the radio. Lots of multitracking and tape-speed manipulation.
> 
> When "The Witch Doctor" came out in 1958 I became a big fan of David 
> Saville, and after he released the "Chipmunk Song" later that year my 
> friends and I started playing around with tape recorders to imitate 
> chipmunk voices. But this was just a lot of fooling around; my only 
> real musical activity from childhood through high school was as a 
> singer.
> 
> It wasn't until my late teens that I got serious. In 1965 I got 
> psychedelicized, both chemically and intellectually, and in 1966 I 
> started playing quasi-professionally in a band. Although the band 
> itself was strictly folk rock/psychedelic with guitars (a little 
> banjo), bass, drums, and vocals, my listening went far beyond. During 
> 1966-67 I rapidly got an education about electronic music, musique 
> concrete, and live electroacoustic music. Pieces that were essential 
> to this education were Steve Reich's "Come Out" (1966), Pauline 
> Oliveros's "I of IV" (1967), Luciano Berio's "Thema (Omaggio a 
> Joyce)" (1958).
> 
> In 1969 I saw/heard John Cage and David Tudor perform with the Merce 
> Cunningham Dance Company and I composed my first multimedia piece for 
> film with four spatially-separated tapes of manipulated sounds. I 
> followed this with a film for three synchronized films, an adaptation 
> of an Ionesco play called "Salutation" for three actors. Many of the 
> techniques and compositional structures in this film were related to 
> musical loop processes, i.e. layering, repetition, multiple 
> perspectives on the same material.
> 
> After a few years playing more straight-ahead rock music and making 
> more straight-ahead films I found myself in Santa Cruz in 1975 and 
> enrolled in Cabrillo College, where the music department had a New 
> Music Ensemble and an Audio Arts program directed by Bob Beede. Bob 
> had a Buchla Music Easel, and I started performing with him and a few 
> others. A lot of what we played was improvised "pattern music," 
> inspired by Terry Riley, Steve Reich, and other so-called 
> "minimalists." Our typical setup used a delay system made of two 
> 4-track reel-to-reel decks with the tape treaded between them. As I 
> recall, we didn't normally use regeneration on the signal path, so 
> the effect was mainly a straight canonic repetition with only a small 
> amount of feedback due to bleed into the microphones. Having four 
> tracks of tape allowed us to have individual delays routed to their 
> own speakers in a quad sound system. On one piece we had short delays 
> from two playback heads of Machine #1 in the front channels and long 
> delays from Machine #2 in the rear channels.
> 
> I moved to San Diego in 1977 to attend graduate school, and for two 
> years I lived with Paul Dresher. Paul was very much into tape delay 
> systems at the time. At home he would play guitar through a funky 
> system in his bedroom, using a couple of cheap old tape decks, but in 
> the tape studio at school he was using the half-inch 4-track (with 
> erase head defeated) for some serious loopage. These experiments led 
> to the design of his 4-track performance looper, based on a modified 
> TASCAM 40-4 deck and a voltage controlled matrix mixer. A pair of 
> long metal arms supported a 20-30" tape loop, and in addition to the 
> stock Record and Playback heads, the tape deck had and additional 
> Playback head mounted at the halfway point in the loop. The outputs 
> and feedback paths from each of the three heads could be controlled 
> through the VCA mixer by means of a set of 24 foot pedals, and the 
> signal routing was done manually with push buttons. This system was 
> built in collaboration with music department technician (and 
> guitarist) Paul Tydelski.  It is the system Bill Walker referred to 
> at the Kuumbwa gig in 1984.
> 
> Partly because Paul was becoming such an obvious master at tape-based 
> looping, I followed different avenues. I spent a lot of hours working 
> with the school's Buchla 100 Series modular system, which had four 
> analog step sequencers. I also did a lot of work with tape loops as 
> part of some of my tape pieces, but most of the time this was used to 
> prolong individual transient sounds from percussion instruments and 
> the like. I also used some loops in the backing tape for the Diamanda 
> Galas piece "Panoptikon" (1982), turning the sound of her ring 
> modulated voice into a huge chugging engine from hell.
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> Richard Zvonar, PhD
> (818) 788-2202
> http://www.zvonar.com
> http://RZCybernetics.com
> http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
> http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 18 11:20:07 2001
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Greetings,

I've got an off topic question concerning a CD release. I'm in the =
process of releasing my first indie-solo album (about next month). Are =
there any Loopers out there who have similair experiences and have =
tips/hints for me? I'm looking for (online) magazines/radioshows etc. =
that review ambient/loopy music. Any help would be greatly appreciated. =
I'm totally in the dark when it come to promotion.

Peace,

Remco Helbers

www.editionblue.com

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4616.200" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Greetings,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've got an off topic question =
concerning a CD=20
release. I'm in the process of releasing my first indie-solo album =
(about next=20
month). Are there any Loopers out there who have similair experiences =
and have=20
tips/hints for me? I'm looking for (online) magazines/radioshows etc. =
that=20
review ambient/loopy music. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm =
totally=20
in the dark when it come to promotion.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Peace,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Remco Helbers</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.editionblue.com">www.editionblue.com</A></FONT></DIV><=
/FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 18 11:53:37 2001
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From: "Taaffe, Denis G" <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com'"
	 <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>,
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Subject: RE: CD-promo radio opportunity
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Hi,

i thought I would pass this on to the vs list as it may be a great
opportunity for airplay for people on the list.Send them an email and mail
your cD's in.

Thanks

Denis

Denis taaffe

http://www.dtguitar.com

aliengr@hotmail.com

LinuxRadio plays music of artists who are not your mainstream artists, but
who think in an "Open Source" manner. Anyone who holds the copyright or
performance rights of music are invited to submit them to LinuxRadio for
possible airplay. Since we abide by the Recording Industry Association of
America (RIAA) rules, we want to be sure we have the permission of the
owners or artists of the music we play. We are proud to list the artists so
you will know who you are listening to.

Please submit your music to music@linuxradio.info


I'm looking for (online) magazines/radioshows etc. that review ambient/loopy
music. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm totally in the dark when
it come to promotion.
 
Peace,
 
Remco Helbers
 
www.editionblue.com <http://www.editionblue.com> 


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<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma><SPAN 
  class=347232316-18122001><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>&nbsp; 
  &nbsp;</FONT></SPAN>
  <P><FONT size=2>Hi,</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=2>i thought I would pass this on to the vs list as it may be a 
  great opportunity for airplay for people on the list.Send them an email and 
  mail your cD's in.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=2>Thanks</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=2>Denis</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=2>Denis taaffe</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=2>http://www.dtguitar.com</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=2>aliengr@hotmail.com</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=2>LinuxRadio plays music of artists who are not your mainstream 
  artists, but who think in an "Open Source" manner. Anyone who holds the 
  copyright or performance rights of music are invited to submit them to 
  LinuxRadio for possible airplay. Since we abide by the Recording Industry 
  Association of America (RIAA) rules, we want to be sure we have the permission 
  of the owners or artists of the music we play. We are proud to list the 
  artists so you will know who you are listening to.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=2>Please submit your music to 
  music@linuxradio.info</FONT></P></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> I'm looking for (online) magazines/radioshows 
  etc. that review ambient/loopy music. Any help would be greatly appreciated. 
  I'm totally in the dark when it come to promotion.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Peace,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Remco Helbers</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><A 
  href="http://www.editionblue.com">www.editionblue.com</A></FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C187E0.6FCD8AD0--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 18 14:18:29 2001
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:37:03 EST
Subject: Re: Re:Newbie question; the live approach
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richard z. said, among other things:
>Almost all of the live looping I do is improvisational,

here, too --- though, in some of my solo performances in the '90's, i've 
add'ly triggered previously improvised loops w/a sampler.....
and, now i'll re-use loops (that were originally improvised) on the 
repeater's CFC, sometimes during the same session, sometimes later.

>and almost 
>all of that has been me capturing loops of other people's performance 
>or of recorded sources. 

over the past years, that's become an increasingly important portion of my 
looping-thing --- i set up various (& sometimes, random) mics & sends onstage 
(or, in the studio) that feed my mixer, for looping & processing.....
i've also got 2 switchable mics built into my main gtr, which can be bent to 
this purpose, as well as having a switchable 1/4-inch *input* on the gtr.....

live, i loop w/ 1 repeater, 1 edp and 1 lexicon pcm42.
(and, the gtr input can also be used as a 'pure' electronic feedback loop, 
when the gtr /amp signal is sent back to the gtr).
live processing is w/a lexicon pcm80, an electrix filter factory, a korg 
electribe ES1, a moogerfooger ring mod & various other pedal-devices..... 
and, all the processed material is further processed by vacuum-tube gtr amps.

<snip>

>but I'm more inclined to capture short loops of another 
>performer's phrases.

same, here..... though, often i *am* the other performer:
*-)
and, i've found it to be a wad of fun to create single-loops from a broad 
variety of available inputs --- the repeater is certainly great, for that, as 
one can choose to do that (or not) using the multiple tracks.....
 
<snip>

>Because I'm rarely performing on a conventional instrument, I can 
>devote my attention to the looping system in such a way that it IS an 
>instrument. 

personally, i've always found this to be my favored approach, even when 
playing a conventional instrument..... the key issue, there, being fluid 
'integration'.

>Thus I rarely let looped material just "sit" in the 
>musical texture.

there is, i think, a certain particular art in animating the looping 
instruments' outputs, even when exercising quasi-drone kindsa materials.....

>I often "capture and dump" material at a rapid pace, 
>or I may capture several simultaneous loops of contrasting materials 
>and bring them in and out of the mix.

again: ditto!
though, sometimes i just let the loops 'hang', or 'groove'.....

best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 18 14:33:04 2001
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Subject: Get your looping music on ther airwaves (Was OT: CD-promo)
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Remco,

I really don't think your topic is so "off" as all of that...

In a message dated 12/18/01 7:48:32 AM, crossfate@zonnet.nl writes:

>I've got an off topic question concerning a CD release. I'm in the process
>of releasing my first indie-solo album (about next month). Are there any
>Loopers out there who have similair experiences and have tips/hints for
>me? I'm looking for (online) magazines/radioshows etc. that review ambient/
>loopy music. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm totally in the dark 
when
>it come to promotion.

I hardly qualify as an expert in this. I only released my first commercially
available CD in July. But I sort of started this thread, so I feel 
responsible.
If I happen to say something really stooopid please forgive and excuse.

Well, the sort of music you are creating/recording matters a lot. It'll
probably be of only marginal value to send a CD of ambient music to a
death-metal e-zine or radio program specializing in polka music
(unless you happen to be into ambient death-polka ... hmmm... sounds
kinda interesting). But that's a no brainer. Search the web for radio 
stations that have shows featuring your sort of music and fire off a 
CD addressed to the "music director" of that show. You don't HAVE to
know the name of the individual (but it sure helps if you can find a
specific contact name). Include a little "press" blurb with a polite, 
professional request for consideration (remember they are doing 
YOU the favor, not the other way around) and don't forget to give
them an easy way to send notification back to you should you get lucky. 
E-mail is wonderful. It costs them no postage to send you a playlist
and (if they're feeling generous) some nice words about what they think
of your music.

The minuscule label my CD came out on gets e-mailed playlists all of the
time and forwards them to me. I belong to ASCAP and want to keep 
track of these so I can possibly have whatever tiny little bit of money 
paid me from this that I can (however insignificant). Joining an organization
like ASCAP is pretty painless and has the added benefit of making you
look more like a professional when sending out promotional materials.
It's something to consider at least. I'm glad I did it. Maybe it'll help you.

So far as I can tell, public radio stations (NPR, etc.) associated with 
institutions of learning (colleges and universities) are more agreeable
to putting unsolicited, submitted material on the airwaves. If your 
music is of a little more adventurous, left-of-center, underrepresented
variety this usually directly speaks to their own "mission statements." 
And, at the same time, some young underpaid (or even volunteer) DJs are 
often secretly dying to put something new, different, maybe even a little 
"dangerous" before their listeners. Of course, there are some who are only 
out to put on the best "alterna-corporate rock" soundtrack for their buddies 
at the next frat party -- who knows. It can work both ways. But I'd count on
college radio anyway to deal better with something "new" if that's what you 
do.

And, don't underestimate foreign radio stations. I'm continually surprised by
how much more adventurous people are elsewhere in terms of the different
things they are willing to expose themselves to and try. Perhaps I shouldn't 
be.
We seem to be such lemmings here in the USA sometimes that it saddens me.
Of course the messages and reviews that may come back to you will come
in a language that you may not speak...but so what. I'm thrilled that 
scattered
little groups of people from Bosnia to Brisbane are hearing my music. It's a 
kick.

My CD went out to a mailing list carefully collected over the years by the
individual that runs the label: Southern California avant garde trumpeter Jeff
Kaiser. He is my good friend and he has asked that I not share his mailing 
list
with anybody. So indeed, I won't. Sorry. But it shouldn't be to hard to start
carefully generating your own mailing list. It's all a matter of research and
the web is the single greatest new tool for research I can imagine. The 
information is all there if you know the right questions to ask. And, if you 
got 
my e-mail the other day that started this thread you got a list of 17 radio 
stations (and the cities that they're in) that play some pretty doggone 
weird stuff. It shouldn't be too hard to put the pieces together and find 
the addresses for these stations online (and the names of various radio
shows, DJs and music directors). That was sort of part of my intention
in "sharing the joy" the other day...hint, hint.

So, what's the benefit in getting radio airplay? Well, honestly, not a lot 
more 
than the "thrill" of having gotten it (so far for me anyway). The label I'm 
on 
doesn't have big-league distribution. And, to make matters worse, the 
"shopping
mechanism" on their website has been down for a month. But I can definitely 
see a
real peak in interest reflected in the "stats" for my MP3.com web page after
every occasion my music has been played somewhere. My CD came out in July and 
the tracks up there have already had over 600 downloads. There is a definite 
pattern
of "spikes" in interest following broadcasts. So I have to believe that a few 
of those 
are turning into customers ... or might at some point (especially if they can 
begin
buying the CD with a credit card again at the label's website).

I hold out no more hope for it than that. I'll never be a rich and famous at 
this.
It's too late for me in that regard anyway. I'm not young and pretty anymore 
--
I'm a 48 year old white male and getting older all of the time -- no changing 
that. 
Also, I'm an amateur ... in the best sense of the word. The original root 
word 
"ama" comes from the Latin word that means love: amor. An amateur is a 
person who does something for the love of the thing itself -- and that's me. 
Of course it would be nice to be "surprised" by fame and fortune. But I can 
hardly expect it at this point. I've gotta find my motivations elsewhere (or 
be open to them finding me). Besides I have a pretty interesting "day job."

I hope this is of some help.

Best,

Ted Killian

www.mp3.com/TedKillian
www.pfmentum.com/flux.html
www.mp3.com/Ophelia_Pancake











From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 18 14:40:45 2001
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Hey Richard Z.!
PS.. Ting Tang Walla Walla bing bang


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 18 14:52:41 2001
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:07:19 -0800
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From: "William R. Walker," <chillyb@cruzio.com>
Subject:  Re: FIRST LOOPING MEMORIES 
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 Hey Richard, you must not have down too much damage to your brain with
chemicals. Your memory is far too elephantine for that. Thanks for the
historic perspective on events that for me are now just fuzzy memories.
chillyb


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 >Because I'm rarely performing on a conventional instrument, I can 
>devote my attention to the looping system in such a way that it IS an 
>instrument. Thus I rarely let looped material just "sit" in the 
>musical texture. I often "capture and dump" material at a rapid pace, 
>or I may capture several simultaneous loops of contrasting materials 
>and bring them in and out of the mix.

Chris-

I am interested in this way of looking at looping 'as an instrument'. I am working on processes and tools to help bring fluidity into looping. May I ask, what kind of interface would you like to see in a loop instrument? How do you see yourself 'playing' such an instrument? What form would it have? How would you interact? 

What about collaboration with other people? In your vision, could more than one person be playing the loop instrument at a time?

For example, I grew up improvising piano, so it is easy for me to imagine an interface where new loops are automatically mapped across a keyboard, allowing me to 'play' them.  I also grew up programming, so I can relate to an interface with macro-like commands like 'F1B4' fade loop 1 out over four counts.

Right now I'm looking at core principles for loop technology. Here are some thoughts:

Everything is breathing
There is no final product
Only the rhythm of returning
Only the growth of resonance

Mill - Sawdust
Process - Byproduct
MILL "The Circular Process by which Grooves are Cut"

the process by which the process is developed is itself the process. there is no stable architecture. the song is the singing.

DISC EROS-
wheels revolving within wheels, imprinted with sound, synchronized by crystal clocks

time becomes resonant 
dream antenna

basic principles?
* Individuality. -different physical arrangements expose process- UI decoupled from core process. A guitarist plays it differently than a keyboardist.

* Fluidity- the loop process does not disrupt the channel by forcing structure. does not take the improviser away from his flow.

* Simplicity- honor limits.

* Community- encourage collaboration.

* History- there is no product to store, only the reverberations of the past. material that is unused, fades away. equally, processes and experiments that are fruitless, fade away.

* Association- loops are linked to one another by their use together. when two loops are sounding together, this creates a magnetic link between. loops self-organize into a network based on the activities of the conductor (that's you!). this helps the conductor to find related loops fluidly.

* Ant medicine- things grow in their own rhythm,  take small steps.

 
many thanks,
-yon



Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 18 16:27:14 2001
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Subject: Re: FIRST LOOPING MEMORIES
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At 11:07 AM -0800 12/18/01, William R. Walker, wrote:
>you must not have down too much damage to your brain with chemicals. 
>Your memory is far too elephantine for that.

I do have trouble remembering from one moment to the next, however. 
Maybe that's why I like looping; it reminds me of what I just did.
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

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At 11:09 AM -0800 12/18/01, William R. Walker, wrote:
>Hey Richard Z.!
>PS.. Ting Tang Walla Walla bing bang

A bit of David Saville trivia:

Saville's real name is Ross Bagdasarian. He was the nephew of author 
William Saroyan, with whom he wrote the song "Come on a My House." 
The 1951 record, produced by Mitch Miller, was a runaway hit for 
Rosemary Clooney (George Clooney's aunt).

To show just how intertwined the music world is: Rosemary Clooney was 
a regular on "Your Hit Parade." The show's band leader was Raymond 
Scott, the inventor of several early electronic music instruments 
including what may have been the first sequencer.
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 18 17:57:24 2001
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At 12:53 PM -0800 12/18/01, Jan Pek wrote:

>I am interested in this way of looking at looping 'as an 
>instrument'. I am working on processes and tools to help bring 
>fluidity into looping. May I ask, what kind of interface would you 
>like to see in a loop instrument? How do you see yourself 'playing' 
>such an instrument? What form would it have? How would you interact?

I'm not sure if I should be the one to respond (you quote my 
comments) or if Chris Olden should (your message was cc'ed and 
directed to him) or if we all should have a whack at it (I expect the 
latter).

-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 18 21:31:37 2001
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Hi Naci-

On Saturday March 2nd, 2002 San Luis Obispo will be the site of the
first ever Central Coast Looping Music Festival, which will be a
gathering of individuals who make music using delays to achieve rhythmic
and non-rhythmic loops as a basis for musical expression.  At present
there are 15 individuals, mostly from the West Coast but also from as
far away as Brazil, who are currently signed up to participate in the
event.  This event will serve as a chance for these "Loopers," as we are
known, to share our unique and diverse form of music with each other and
with the local community.

The reason I am contacting you is that I would like to give SLO Brew the
first chance at hosting this event.  I envision it as an all-day affair
beginning at noon with demos of key looping equipment by their
developers, proceeding with performances through the day, and
culminating with night-time performances by the professional musicians
participating in the event.  While I realize that looping music is
certainly a niche and most likely a foreign concept to most people in
the community, I feel that liberal use of advertising and the media
could generate interest to draw a large enough crowd to SLO Brew to make
this show worthwhile.  Similar events held in Santa Cruz, Los Angeles,
and the Bay Area have all been successful, and another loop festival is
being planned for New York City.

Please consider this proposal, and let me know what you think about the
idea.  I realize that you will need to hear examples of the music before
making a decision, so I will gather demos from as many participants as I
can for you to listen to.  Please also check out the following website:
www.loopers-delight.com for more information about loop-based music.  I
hope to hear from you soon whether or not you agree that SLO Brew would
be the right place to hold this event.


Thanks and Happy Holidays,

Hans Lindauer
hans@ernieball.com

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Dear Loopers,

You may have read my e-mail (or will soon, if you get the digest) to the
booking agent of one of the local bars, which I cc:'d to Looper's
Delight, trying to get him to let us have the CCLF at SLO Brewing
Company.  If such is the case, you may have noticed that at the end of
the message I promised him a demo of the music we will be creating at
the festival.

So at this time I would like to ask everybody who is still interested in
participating to either e-mail me a link to your music on-line, or to
snail-mail me a CD to:

Hans Lindauer
549 Los Osos Valley Rd.
Los Osos, CA 93402

Please be aware that I intend to burn this material to CD, but only to
try to get a [free] venue and/or sponsorships to cover any costs, at
this time.  MP3-quality tunes should suffice for this purpose, as time
is of the essence for this phase of the project.  As the event draws
nearer, I would like to put together a CD-quality disk to distribute to
radio stations and print media to try to get some free press for the
event (and for you).  So if you send me a link to your music, please
also mail me a CD and press packet, if possible.

Matthias Grob has e-mailed me to let me know that he may be in the area
at the time of the event, and if he can make it he has offered to demo
the Echoplex Digital Pro with the new Loop 4 software.  This presents
the idea of a looper's workshop.  It would be nice if others would
volunteer to demonstrate their looper(s) of choice in a non-performance
setting.

I'd like to thank everyone who has shown interest - you may notice that
the participant list has grown since the last time I posted to LD
concerning the festival.  Thanks especially to Rick Walker for planting
the seed of this idea.  Here's everybody so far:

Rick Walker
Miko Biffle
Max Valentino
Rich Atkinson
Ted Killian
Steven Rice
Stan Card
Jon Wagner
Bill Walker
Richard Zvonar
Tom Heasley
Mark Sottilaro
Matthias Grob
Mark Hamburg
Hans Lindauer


-Hans

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 18 23:38:28 2001
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I've been following the thread here on battery-powered preamps for
acoustic guitar.  I'm looking for a 2-channel preamp/blender, but it
doesn't need to be battery-powered.  A unit that's caught my eye is the
Presonus Acousti-Q, which is billed as a 2-channel tube preamp blender
for acoustic instruments.  I've been able to find very little on it.
Only what's at Harmony Central:
http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/2001/Acousti-Q.html    It's not even
clear to me that it's commercially available, although music123 lists it
in their catalog.  Has anyone tried one of these?  Any comments on
usuability and sound?  If it makes any difference, I'd be running a
Fishman RareEarth Blender into it, and from there into a Repeater (see,
I got the looping stuff in the back door !!!)

Thanks,
Elby

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Hey gang, here's one:
I am without a New Year's gig, so I jumped at the chance to audition on
short notice at a local Irish pub (very small) this evening . . . brought
the Echoplex as well as the laptop for sequences.  Started with an Irish
favorite (The Wild Rover) on acoustic guitar and harmonica, played Brown
Eyed Girl with a sequence (but without the harmonizer--not in the rack and I
had no time to put it in before the audition--boy I miss the harmonizer on
stuff like that tune), asked for requests, bla bla . . . used the looper for
AABA of White Christmas (recorded rhythm while soloing with harmonica, then
soloed on guitar) and also for a live fadeout of All Night Long by Lionel
Ritchie (on a whim--I have an ending programmed, but wanted to end on less
of a bang, so I looped two bars and noodled over it).  All this while
wearing my Looper's Delight T-shirt.  No one flinched or raised an eyebrow,
so we're talking transparent here.  I guess the bottom line is, if it didn't
sound bad, they didn't notice (!).  Guess I shoulda gone off the deep end .
. . no, wait, it was an audition!
Fiddle gig on Thursday--more reports from the front line--wish me luck for
Irish New Year's (I am sure that Auld Lang Syne is OK even in an Irish pub
on New Year's Eve).
Gary

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My introduction to looping was Steve Reich's It's Gonna Rain, and Violin
Phase, which I think I started playing around '86 or so. In 1992, after
having spent a couple of years in a major symphony orchestra, and
discovering that wasn't where I was going to get myself expressed, two
important things happened for me, almost simultaneously...

One was a grant that I won from the State Universities of New York, which
amounted to a $7000 check to buy gear and experiment.  That's when I bought
my first set of Lexicons and Midi-pedals (midigators, both.)  and when I
made my first electronic tunes in the midst of Bulent Arel's studios at the
SUNY at Stony Brook, where I got my Masters.

Second was being hired as a member of Steve Reich's band and getting the
best chance of all to be acquainted with the man and his music, both of
which I happily relate continue to contribute great inspiration and
influence.

Now my sense of time fails me, but around then, I believe, I met Robert
Black, (New Music Bass soloist for Bang On a Can and many others) who was
then working with Richard Zvonar.  He introduced us and during one or two
visits to California, Richard graciously invited me to come make some music
with him at his place, where he really expanded my head as to larger
concepts of looping, much of which he explains in his own post to this
thread.  Richard also exposed me to MAX, and set me up with the folks at
Eventide who welcomed me to their office to try the gear, and I even took an
H-3000 home and made a piece relevant to grant I had received...

So I always thank Richard...

Then I put electronics down as I decided to cut my teeth on the jazz
language, and about 7 years later chose to put it all together and now I
find myself looping my ass off again, and even in my written, composed
music, especially my string quartet, looping is always foundationally
present.  I'm finding as I think we all are, that our community is growing
and I love these threads which expose our histories and thoughts on the
loop...  I've also learned so much from Torn and Phil Kline over the last
few years...

I now produce my own 'new music theater show'  which includes my own
loop-based music and music of others including phil kline, evan ziporyn, and
theo bleckmann, a vocal looper.  I'll include the sites below, if you are
interested.  Two bass clarinetists, two actors, and a vocalist, and me.  I
direct it from the inside and play as well.  I use a technique called sound
painting, a sign language for conducting improvisers designed by Walter
Thompson.  It consists of over 700 gestures to be used across disciplines to
indicate the type of improvisation desired of the performers.  As specific
or general as called for, this real-time compositional method comes about as
close to a looping aesthetic as I can imagine, which is probably why it's
such a central part of my 'voice'.

Thanks for reading,  looking forward to the next posts...

Todd Reynolds


Links:

http://www.theobleckmann.com
http://www.ziporyn.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~boombox
http://www.toddreynolds.com


-- 
Todd Reynolds
42-09 47th Ave 1C
Sunnyside, NY  11104
 
Ph.    718 392-3773
Mob.   917 576-6166
Fax    419 781-5502
 
http://www.toddreynolds.com
http://www.ethelcentral.com

todd@toddreynolds.com

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Subject: Re: very OT: Re: Soundscapes/Frippertronics debate postscript
From: todd reynolds <toddreynolds@rcn.com>
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In the spirit of kim's statements about moderating the group ourselves...

I have always been amazed at dt's great spirit in participating in the
conversation, and I, too, check out many of his posts just to hear a real
'educated by intense experience' type of viewpoint.  I also feel the same
about kim and matthias and others, for the record.  I am once again amazed
by a real patient and sane response by mr. Torn, especially given the
strength and heat of some of pb's inflammatory comments.

It sounds like dt is on the responsibility-taking tip.  For pb, however, I'm
not sure this will ever be over...  Sad that this all devolves into personal
stuff, but I must wonder if this is not about the proposed topic at all,
rather perhaps a favorite toy stolen at 5 years old, or some other regret.

todd





On 12/17/01 9:07 AM, "Hedewa7@aol.com" <Hedewa7@aol.com> wrote:

> pbadore@rochester.rr.com writes:
>> I don't like people left and right e-mailing my private address.
> 
> as it's been a while, i can't really remember why i emailed you, privately
> --- maybe it was because this had become so clearly 'off-topic', maybe it was
> merely another of my mistakes.
> 
> pb>I dislike LD for printing them.  I occasionally make exceptions but this
> is not one
>> of them.  During this past month I debated whether to reply to this or not
>> and have obviously decided.  I would appreciate it if you would leave me
> alone
>> after this, and if you attempt to do otherwise I'll delete your message
>> unread.  Feel free to submit a copy of this to LD as I don't feel like
>> resubscribing just for the sake of one letter.
> 
> i'll admit that i'm confused, here, again --- maybe you could let me know if
> you receive this email;
> i will post it to LD, w/your post intact --- as maybe you'll only see it,
> there, presuming that you continue to scan the LD archives.....
> 
> pb>> >What about *interpretation*, the key issue here?  I resent your sarcasm
>>>> represented by the asterisks,
> 
> dt>> on the subject of interpretation --- i use asterisks in my email to
> merely
>>> *stress* a word, not for sarcasm.
>>> i'm not a sarcastic guy.
> 
> pb>I seem to recall "elecTORNica".  Everyone is sarcastic one way or another.
> 
> that wasn't meant as sarcasm, just cheap humor.
> 
> 
> pb>There is also no need for you to stress anything.  Just write your messages
>> straight.
> 
> well, that's how i speak, as well --- with exaggerated dynamics; though, i
> have often been accused of verbal ellipsis.
> 
> 
> pb>> >but I also apologize if I wasn't clear enough
>>>> at the beginning.
> 
> dt>> don't worry; we're just talking, & i apparently misunderstood  your
>>> intentions.
> 
> pb>> >I assure everyone I'm not crazy or making this up when
>>>> I say I found a few downloads on either LD (might have been CD1 but
>> they're
>>>> deleted) or off Elephant Talk but can't recall exactly where.
> 
> i *certainly* never said nor implied anything about anyone being 'crazy'.
> 
> 
> pb>> >Earlier
>>>> today
>>>> I made a search but to no avail.  But these people labelled their work
>>>> "Soundscapes" in relation to KC material.  Hence my comments.
> 
> dt>> is that where this started?
>>> again --- i had no idea that this is what you were talking about referring
>>> to ---
>>> confusion.
> 
> pb>Then why did you get involved in the first place?
> 
> i got involved, as i was tweaked at the thought that someone (whom i thought
> was new at LD) might mis-perceive *all* loop-people to be dedicated to
> slavishly aping robert fripp's 'soundscapes';
> i was not aware that you were specifically referring to downloads at a
> particular website;
> my mistake!
> 
> 
> pb>I've looked at the
>> archives and notice there's rarely a subject you haven't added your two
>> cents to. 
> 
> well, this may be wrong, but..... i am trying to continue w/some kinda
> participitation in/contribution to the looping-'community', and, since i do
> this looping-thing pretty much every day, i figure there ought to be *some*
> useful-to-somebody-bits in a portion of the crap that i spout..... but, maybe
> not:
> that's one risk that i continue to take --- that of being an ass, and
> publicly so.
> 
> 
> pb>The original subject was "KC in SF - No Loop Content".  Naturally
>> Crimsonesque & Frippesque terms were bound to be used.  Aside from our
>> argument I've probably inputted about three times and only if it's something
>> I was familiar with.  You don't see me blabbing about David Torn, do you?
>> Unless, of course, he tried to attack me with some stupid misinterpretation
>> of my comments!  If you don't know or care to know about something, STAY
>> OUT
>> OF IT!!! (Now THAT's stress!)
> 
> pb>> >But
> 
> dt>> why, but?
> 
> pb>Why not?  Again, I don't really want to know.
> 
> pb>> >let's put your original thoughts in a proper perspective.  If I said:
>>>> "Hey you motherfuckin' asshole loopers!  You don't know shit about what
>>>> you're doin'!  All you're doing is copying soundscapes which was invented
>>>> by the great Robert Fripp years ago after he created Frippertronics.
>>>> Copycat candyasses!"
>>>> NOW I deserve every counterattack from the past couple of days!  However,
>>>> I accept your apology; but please keep in mind you started a precedent
> 
> 
> dt>> if i started a precedent, that precedent was not meant as a personal
>>> attack,
> 
> 
> pb>But ya DID, Blanche,  ya DID make a personal attack!
> 
> well, that was truly unintentional;
> i thought that i was addressing what appeared to be an 'issue' --- at least,
> for me.
> and:
> i have every hope & confidence that your personal & musical contributions to
> this screwy world are broadly valuable, either now or in the future.
> 
> 
> dt>> just my thoughts & responses presented in this environment which
>> encourages
>>> the exchange of ideas.
> 
> 
> pb>Yeah, at my expense.
> 
> that's not at all what i meant to do; that's the mistake for which i
> apologise.
> 
> 
> dt>> i am indeed sorry that you perceived it otherwise;
>>> i meant no personal harm.
> 
> 
> pb>> >that
>>>> fortunately is now waning, aside from Sottilaro's continuing childishness
>>>> which has long worn out  (even I stopped the hanky lines).  Our society
>>>> today enjoys attacking itself and who cares if there's no real reason
>> for
>>>> it?
> 
> so, why, then, would you stoop to attacking mark sottilaro's innocently
> good-humored posts?
> 
> 
> 
> dt>> actually, there was a reason for my response, which i tried to make
> clear.
> 
> 
> pb>No, you didn't.
> 
> i *tried* to make it clear. to reiterate:
> i was tweaked at the thought that someone (whom i thought was new at LD)
> might mis-perceive *all* loop-people to be dedicated to slavishly aping
> robert fripp's 'soundscapes';
> i was not aware that you were specifically referring to downloads at a
> particular website;
> my mistake!
> 
> 
> pb>> >I'm also sorry I wasted everyone's time, including my own.  Once I had
>>>> gotten everything together I was hoping to put something on LD, but
>> now
>>>> everything's gone to waste.  Perhaps in time I'll either return or -
>> more
>>>> likely - find another outlet for my music.
> 
> i sincerely hope that you find an outlet for your music, at LD or otherwise.
> 
> 
> dt>> while i'm not sure that i consider LD as an outlet for music, it is a
> good
>>> place for expressing ideas / information / thoughts, as regards looping &
>>> such; there are *many* threads besides this one (see the archives), and i
>>> think it might be the only net-place that is really loop-centric ---
>>> sorry if you are somehow dissuaded from hanging.
> 
> 
> pb>"Somehow"??  I'm a villain because of your assumption and don't argue this!
> 
> i certainly do *not* perceive you as a villain!
> i perceive you as someone with whom i've had a somewhat obtuse verbal
> misunderstanding.
> 
> 
> pb>I admit I'm hardly what you'd call a professional, but does that mean
> people
>> of your caliber need to look down your noses at people of mine?
> 
> i do not 'look down my nose' at you; i was --- or, so i thought --- trying to
> bring another perspective to the discussion.
> 
> 
> pb>It strikes me odd that you have so much time on your hands to participate
> in this!
> 
> huh?
> 
> 
> pb>Even Fripp only contributes to ET once every few years!
> 
> ..... does that statement imply that you believe that i should, as a rule,
> follow his example? while i love & respect RF, that is not gonna happen:
> different strokes, etc.
> 
> 
> pb>I am disgusted that LD has turned into both a forum for you (a lot of
> gushing)
> 
> well, if ya hung around, it'd be a forum for you, too..... as it seems to be
> for other folks.
> 
> 
> pb>and a commercial site for the Repeater
> 
> actually, i'd say that the majority of posts relate directly to the EDP,
> though repeater has (naturally, due to its recent release date) made a strong
> showing, as have the jamman, boomerang, line6, orville, bossRC20, kyma, acid,
> headrush, etc etc.....
> 
> 
> pb>(a piece of shit, if you ask me).
> 
> while not perfect -(but what looper is everything, to all users?)- i'm quite
> happy with my repeater --- it's been a very, very useful tool, for me, among
> others.
> 
> 
> pb>I used to work voluntarily as a DJ at a radio station in the Rochester
>> Institute of Technology and found nothing there but a bunch of technical
>> yesmen who all said the same thing.  That's why I left LD:  Last month
>> was a rerun of those horrible days (although I gotta admit, the debates that
>> resulted did bring some humanity to the dullness).
> 
> i'm sorry to hear of the recall of bad memories, and of the dullness.
> 
> 
> dt>> best,
>>> dt / s-c
> 
> pb>I'd hate to see your worst.
>> PB
> 
> damn, that's cold.
> dt / s-c
> 

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From: "Scott McGregor Moore" <scott@dreamstate.to>
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References: <7BAC931E644ED211A90C00805F65CB64093F5340@georgia.exchange.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: CD-promo radio opportunity
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 01:59:45 -0500
Organization: dreamSTATE
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You'll find links to most of the best ambient review, etc... sites
though here http://www.dreamstate.to/links.htm

Cheers,
Scott M2

http://www.dreamSTATE.to
ambientelectronicsoundscapes
http://www.mp3.com/dreamSTATE

    I'm looking for (online) magazines/radioshows etc. that review =
ambient/loopy music. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm totally =
in the dark when it come to promotion.
    =20
    Peace,
    =20
    Remco Helbers
    =20
    www.editionblue.com

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3314.2100" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>You'll find links to most of the best ambient =
review, etc...=20
sites</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>though here </FONT><FONT size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.dreamstate.to/links.htm">http://www.dreamstate.to/link=
s.htm</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Cheers,<BR>Scott M2</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.dreamSTATE.to">http://www.dreamSTATE.to</A><BR>ambient=
electronicsoundscapes<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.mp3.com/dreamSTATE">http://www.mp3.com/dreamSTATE</A><=
BR></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm looking for (online) =
magazines/radioshows=20
    etc. that review ambient/loopy music. Any help would be greatly =
appreciated.=20
    I'm totally in the dark when it come to promotion.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Peace,</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Remco Helbers</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.editionblue.com">www.editionblue.com</A></FONT></DIV><=
/FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C18830.D50D2220--

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                    Can you take my e-mail address off your mailing
list.

                     Thanks

                     normand.charette@citicorp.com

   -----Original Message-----
   From:       toddreynolds [SMTP:toddreynolds@rcn.com]
   Sent:       Wednesday, December 19, 2001 1:43 AM
   To:         Loopers-Delight
   Cc:         toddreynolds
   Subject:    Re: very OT: Re: Soundscapes/Frippertronics debate
               postscript
   
   In the spirit of kim's statements about moderating the group
   ourselves...
   
   I have always been amazed at dt's great spirit in participating in
   the
   conversation, and I, too, check out many of his posts just to hear a
   real
   'educated by intense experience' type of viewpoint.  I also feel the
   same
   about kim and matthias and others, for the record.  I am once again
   amazed
   by a real patient and sane response by mr. Torn, especially given the
   strength and heat of some of pb's inflammatory comments.
   
   It sounds like dt is on the responsibility-taking tip.  For pb,
   however, I'm
   not sure this will ever be over...  Sad that this all devolves into
   personal
   stuff, but I must wonder if this is not about the proposed topic at
   all,
   rather perhaps a favorite toy stolen at 5 years old, or some other
   regret.
   
   todd
   
   
   
   
   
   On 12/17/01 9:07 AM, "Hedewa7@aol.com" <Hedewa7@aol.com> wrote:
   
   > pbadore@rochester.rr.com writes:
   >> I don't like people left and right e-mailing my private address.
   > 
   > as it's been a while, i can't really remember why i emailed you,
   privately
   > --- maybe it was because this had become so clearly 'off-topic',
   maybe it was
   > merely another of my mistakes.
   > 
   > pb>I dislike LD for printing them.  I occasionally make exceptions
   but this
   > is not one
   >> of them.  During this past month I debated whether to reply to
   this or not
   >> and have obviously decided.  I would appreciate it if you would
   leave me
   > alone
   >> after this, and if you attempt to do otherwise I'll delete your
   message
   >> unread.  Feel free to submit a copy of this to LD as I don't feel
   like
   >> resubscribing just for the sake of one letter.
   > 
   > i'll admit that i'm confused, here, again --- maybe you could let
   me know if
   > you receive this email;
   > i will post it to LD, w/your post intact --- as maybe you'll only
   see it,
   > there, presuming that you continue to scan the LD archives.....
   > 
   > pb>> >What about *interpretation*, the key issue here?  I resent
   your sarcasm
   >>>> represented by the asterisks,
   > 
   > dt>> on the subject of interpretation --- i use asterisks in my
   email to
   > merely
   >>> *stress* a word, not for sarcasm.
   >>> i'm not a sarcastic guy.
   > 
   > pb>I seem to recall "elecTORNica".  Everyone is sarcastic one way
   or another.
   > 
   > that wasn't meant as sarcasm, just cheap humor.
   > 
   > 
   > pb>There is also no need for you to stress anything.  Just write
   your messages
   >> straight.
   > 
   > well, that's how i speak, as well --- with exaggerated dynamics;
   though, i
   > have often been accused of verbal ellipsis.
   > 
   > 
   > pb>> >but I also apologize if I wasn't clear enough
   >>>> at the beginning.
   > 
   > dt>> don't worry; we're just talking, & i apparently misunderstood 
   your
   >>> intentions.
   > 
   > pb>> >I assure everyone I'm not crazy or making this up when
   >>>> I say I found a few downloads on either LD (might have been CD1
   but
   >> they're
   >>>> deleted) or off Elephant Talk but can't recall exactly where.
   > 
   > i *certainly* never said nor implied anything about anyone being
   'crazy'.
   > 
   > 
   > pb>> >Earlier
   >>>> today
   >>>> I made a search but to no avail.  But these people labelled
   their work
   >>>> "Soundscapes" in relation to KC material.  Hence my comments.
   > 
   > dt>> is that where this started?
   >>> again --- i had no idea that this is what you were talking about
   referring
   >>> to ---
   >>> confusion.
   > 
   > pb>Then why did you get involved in the first place?
   > 
   > i got involved, as i was tweaked at the thought that someone (whom
   i thought
   > was new at LD) might mis-perceive *all* loop-people to be dedicated
   to
   > slavishly aping robert fripp's 'soundscapes';
   > i was not aware that you were specifically referring to downloads
   at a
   > particular website;
   > my mistake!
   > 
   > 
   > pb>I've looked at the
   >> archives and notice there's rarely a subject you haven't added
   your two
   >> cents to. 
   > 
   > well, this may be wrong, but..... i am trying to continue w/some
   kinda
   > participitation in/contribution to the looping-'community', and,
   since i do
   > this looping-thing pretty much every day, i figure there ought to
   be *some*
   > useful-to-somebody-bits in a portion of the crap that i spout.....
   but, maybe
   > not:
   > that's one risk that i continue to take --- that of being an ass,
   and
   > publicly so.
   > 
   > 
   > pb>The original subject was "KC in SF - No Loop Content".
   Naturally
   >> Crimsonesque & Frippesque terms were bound to be used.  Aside from
   our
   >> argument I've probably inputted about three times and only if it's
   something
   >> I was familiar with.  You don't see me blabbing about David Torn,
   do you?
   >> Unless, of course, he tried to attack me with some stupid
   misinterpretation
   >> of my comments!  If you don't know or care to know about
   something, STAY
   >> OUT
   >> OF IT!!! (Now THAT's stress!)
   > 
   > pb>> >But
   > 
   > dt>> why, but?
   > 
   > pb>Why not?  Again, I don't really want to know.
   > 
   > pb>> >let's put your original thoughts in a proper perspective.  If
   I said:
   >>>> "Hey you motherfuckin' asshole loopers!  You don't know shit
   about what
   >>>> you're doin'!  All you're doing is copying soundscapes which was
   invented
   >>>> by the great Robert Fripp years ago after he created
   Frippertronics.
   >>>> Copycat candyasses!"
   >>>> NOW I deserve every counterattack from the past couple of days! 
   However,
   >>>> I accept your apology; but please keep in mind you started a
   precedent
   > 
   > 
   > dt>> if i started a precedent, that precedent was not meant as a
   personal
   >>> attack,
   > 
   > 
   > pb>But ya DID, Blanche,  ya DID make a personal attack!
   > 
   > well, that was truly unintentional;
   > i thought that i was addressing what appeared to be an 'issue' ---
   at least,
   > for me.
   > and:
   > i have every hope & confidence that your personal & musical
   contributions to
   > this screwy world are broadly valuable, either now or in the
   future.
   > 
   > 
   > dt>> just my thoughts & responses presented in this environment
   which
   >> encourages
   >>> the exchange of ideas.
   > 
   > 
   > pb>Yeah, at my expense.
   > 
   > that's not at all what i meant to do; that's the mistake for which
   i
   > apologise.
   > 
   > 
   > dt>> i am indeed sorry that you perceived it otherwise;
   >>> i meant no personal harm.
   > 
   > 
   > pb>> >that
   >>>> fortunately is now waning, aside from Sottilaro's continuing
   childishness
   >>>> which has long worn out  (even I stopped the hanky lines).  Our
   society
   >>>> today enjoys attacking itself and who cares if there's no real
   reason
   >> for
   >>>> it?
   > 
   > so, why, then, would you stoop to attacking mark sottilaro's
   innocently
   > good-humored posts?
   > 
   > 
   > 
   > dt>> actually, there was a reason for my response, which i tried to
   make
   > clear.
   > 
   > 
   > pb>No, you didn't.
   > 
   > i *tried* to make it clear. to reiterate:
   > i was tweaked at the thought that someone (whom i thought was new
   at LD)
   > might mis-perceive *all* loop-people to be dedicated to slavishly
   aping
   > robert fripp's 'soundscapes';
   > i was not aware that you were specifically referring to downloads
   at a
   > particular website;
   > my mistake!
   > 
   > 
   > pb>> >I'm also sorry I wasted everyone's time, including my own.
   Once I had
   >>>> gotten everything together I was hoping to put something on LD,
   but
   >> now
   >>>> everything's gone to waste.  Perhaps in time I'll either return
   or -
   >> more
   >>>> likely - find another outlet for my music.
   > 
   > i sincerely hope that you find an outlet for your music, at LD or
   otherwise.
   > 
   > 
   > dt>> while i'm not sure that i consider LD as an outlet for music,
   it is a
   > good
   >>> place for expressing ideas / information / thoughts, as regards
   looping &
   >>> such; there are *many* threads besides this one (see the
   archives), and i
   >>> think it might be the only net-place that is really loop-centric
   ---
   >>> sorry if you are somehow dissuaded from hanging.
   > 
   > 
   > pb>"Somehow"??  I'm a villain because of your assumption and don't
   argue this!
   > 
   > i certainly do *not* perceive you as a villain!
   > i perceive you as someone with whom i've had a somewhat obtuse
   verbal
   > misunderstanding.
   > 
   > 
   > pb>I admit I'm hardly what you'd call a professional, but does that
   mean
   > people
   >> of your caliber need to look down your noses at people of mine?
   > 
   > i do not 'look down my nose' at you; i was --- or, so i thought ---
   trying to
   > bring another perspective to the discussion.
   > 
   > 
   > pb>It strikes me odd that you have so much time on your hands to
   participate
   > in this!
   > 
   > huh?
   > 
   > 
   > pb>Even Fripp only contributes to ET once every few years!
   > 
   > ..... does that statement imply that you believe that i should, as
   a rule,
   > follow his example? while i love & respect RF, that is not gonna
   happen:
   > different strokes, etc.
   > 
   > 
   > pb>I am disgusted that LD has turned into both a forum for you (a
   lot of
   > gushing)
   > 
   > well, if ya hung around, it'd be a forum for you, too..... as it
   seems to be
   > for other folks.
   > 
   > 
   > pb>and a commercial site for the Repeater
   > 
   > actually, i'd say that the majority of posts relate directly to the
   EDP,
   > though repeater has (naturally, due to its recent release date)
   made a strong
   > showing, as have the jamman, boomerang, line6, orville, bossRC20,
   kyma, acid,
   > headrush, etc etc.....
   > 
   > 
   > pb>(a piece of shit, if you ask me).
   > 
   > while not perfect -(but what looper is everything, to all users?)-
   i'm quite
   > happy with my repeater --- it's been a very, very useful tool, for
   me, among
   > others.
   > 
   > 
   > pb>I used to work voluntarily as a DJ at a radio station in the
   Rochester
   >> Institute of Technology and found nothing there but a bunch of
   technical
   >> yesmen who all said the same thing.  That's why I left LD:  Last
   month
   >> was a rerun of those horrible days (although I gotta admit, the
   debates that
   >> resulted did bring some humanity to the dullness).
   > 
   > i'm sorry to hear of the recall of bad memories, and of the
   dullness.
   > 
   > 
   > dt>> best,
   >>> dt / s-c
   > 
   > pb>I'd hate to see your worst.
   >> PB
   > 
   > damn, that's cold.
   > dt / s-c
   > 
   
   
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 07:37:03 -0500
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Subject: RE: FIRST LOOPING MEMORIES
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                     Can you please take out my e-mail address off your
mailing list

                      thanks

                     normand.charette@citicorp.com
             

   -----Original Message-----
   From:       toddreynolds [SMTP:toddreynolds@rcn.com]
   Sent:       Wednesday, December 19, 2001 1:43 AM
   To:         Loopers-Delight
   Cc:         toddreynolds
   Subject:    Re: FIRST LOOPING MEMORIES
   
   My introduction to looping was Steve Reich's It's Gonna Rain, and
   Violin
   Phase, which I think I started playing around '86 or so. In 1992,
   after
   having spent a couple of years in a major symphony orchestra, and
   discovering that wasn't where I was going to get myself expressed,
   two
   important things happened for me, almost simultaneously...
   
   One was a grant that I won from the State Universities of New York,
   which
   amounted to a $7000 check to buy gear and experiment.  That's when I
   bought
   my first set of Lexicons and Midi-pedals (midigators, both.)  and
   when I
   made my first electronic tunes in the midst of Bulent Arel's studios
   at the
   SUNY at Stony Brook, where I got my Masters.
   
   Second was being hired as a member of Steve Reich's band and getting
   the
   best chance of all to be acquainted with the man and his music, both
   of
   which I happily relate continue to contribute great inspiration and
   influence.
   
   Now my sense of time fails me, but around then, I believe, I met
   Robert
   Black, (New Music Bass soloist for Bang On a Can and many others) who
   was
   then working with Richard Zvonar.  He introduced us and during one or
   two
   visits to California, Richard graciously invited me to come make some
   music
   with him at his place, where he really expanded my head as to larger
   concepts of looping, much of which he explains in his own post to
   this
   thread.  Richard also exposed me to MAX, and set me up with the folks
   at
   Eventide who welcomed me to their office to try the gear, and I even
   took an
   H-3000 home and made a piece relevant to grant I had received...
   
   So I always thank Richard...
   
   Then I put electronics down as I decided to cut my teeth on the jazz
   language, and about 7 years later chose to put it all together and
   now I
   find myself looping my ass off again, and even in my written,
   composed
   music, especially my string quartet, looping is always foundationally
   present.  I'm finding as I think we all are, that our community is
   growing
   and I love these threads which expose our histories and thoughts on
   the
   loop...  I've also learned so much from Torn and Phil Kline over the
   last
   few years...
   
   I now produce my own 'new music theater show'  which includes my own
   loop-based music and music of others including phil kline, evan
   ziporyn, and
   theo bleckmann, a vocal looper.  I'll include the sites below, if you
   are
   interested.  Two bass clarinetists, two actors, and a vocalist, and
   me.  I
   direct it from the inside and play as well.  I use a technique called
   sound
   painting, a sign language for conducting improvisers designed by
   Walter
   Thompson.  It consists of over 700 gestures to be used across
   disciplines to
   indicate the type of improvisation desired of the performers.  As
   specific
   or general as called for, this real-time compositional method comes
   about as
   close to a looping aesthetic as I can imagine, which is probably why
   it's
   such a central part of my 'voice'.
   
   Thanks for reading,  looking forward to the next posts...
   
   Todd Reynolds
   
   
   Links:
   
   http://www.theobleckmann.com
   http://www.ziporyn.com
   http://www.mindspring.com/~boombox
   http://www.toddreynolds.com
   
   
   -- 
   Todd Reynolds
   42-09 47th Ave 1C
   Sunnyside, NY  11104
    
   Ph.    718 392-3773
   Mob.   917 576-6166
   Fax    419 781-5502
    
   http://www.toddreynolds.com
   http://www.ethelcentral.com
   
   todd@toddreynolds.com
   
   
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--openmail-part-2ac15dd3-00000002--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 19 08:08:17 2001
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	Wed, 19 Dec 2001 07:46:55 -0500
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From: normand.charette@citicorp.com
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 07:39:37 -0500
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Subject: RE: the live approach
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Can you take my e-mail address off your mailing list.

                     Thanks

                     normand.charette@citicorp.com

   -----Original Message-----
   From:       healthquestrecruiter
               [SMTP:healthquestrecruiter@earthlink.net]
   Sent:       Wednesday, December 19, 2001 1:13 AM
   To:         Loopers-Delight
   Cc:         healthquestrecruiter
   Subject:    RE: the live approach
   
   Hey gang, here's one:
   I am without a New Year's gig, so I jumped at the chance to audition
   on
   short notice at a local Irish pub (very small) this evening . . .
   brought
   the Echoplex as well as the laptop for sequences.  Started with an
   Irish
   favorite (The Wild Rover) on acoustic guitar and harmonica, played
   Brown
   Eyed Girl with a sequence (but without the harmonizer--not in the
   rack and I
   had no time to put it in before the audition--boy I miss the
   harmonizer on
   stuff like that tune), asked for requests, bla bla . . . used the
   looper for
   AABA of White Christmas (recorded rhythm while soloing with
   harmonica, then
   soloed on guitar) and also for a live fadeout of All Night Long by
   Lionel
   Ritchie (on a whim--I have an ending programmed, but wanted to end on
   less
   of a bang, so I looped two bars and noodled over it).  All this while
   wearing my Looper's Delight T-shirt.  No one flinched or raised an
   eyebrow,
   so we're talking transparent here.  I guess the bottom line is, if it
   didn't
   sound bad, they didn't notice (!).  Guess I shoulda gone off the deep
   end .
   . . no, wait, it was an audition!
   Fiddle gig on Thursday--more reports from the front line--wish me
   luck for
   Irish New Year's (I am sure that Auld Lang Syne is OK even in an
   Irish pub
   on New Year's Eve).
   Gary
   
   
--openmail-part-2ac16025-00000002
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--openmail-part-2ac16025-00000002--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 19 08:08:40 2001
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Priority: Urgent
Importance: High
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 07:39:57 -0500
Message-Id: <H00011160b84bde5@MHS>
Subject: RE: acousti-q preamp
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Can you take my e-mail address off your mailing list.

                     Thanks

                     normand.charette@citicorp.com

   -----Original Message-----
   From:       mtman [SMTP:mtman@cloud9.net]
   Sent:       Tuesday, December 18, 2001 11:13 PM
   To:         Loopers-Delight
   Cc:         mtman
   Subject:    acousti-q preamp
   
   I've been following the thread here on battery-powered preamps for
   acoustic guitar.  I'm looking for a 2-channel preamp/blender, but it
   doesn't need to be battery-powered.  A unit that's caught my eye is
   the
   Presonus Acousti-Q, which is billed as a 2-channel tube preamp
   blender
   for acoustic instruments.  I've been able to find very little on it.
   Only what's at Harmony Central:
   http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/2001/Acousti-Q.html    It's not
   even
   clear to me that it's commercially available, although music123 lists
   it
   in their catalog.  Has anyone tried one of these?  Any comments on
   usuability and sound?  If it makes any difference, I'd be running a
   Fishman RareEarth Blender into it, and from there into a Repeater
   (see,
   I got the looping stuff in the back door !!!)
   
   Thanks,
   Elby
   
   
--openmail-part-2ac1602b-00000002
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--openmail-part-2ac1602b-00000002--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 19 08:10:44 2001
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Received: (from looper@localhost)
	by hemlock.violacea.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA17125;
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Old-Return-Path: <normand.charette@citicorp.com>
From: normand.charette@citicorp.com
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Priority: Urgent
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 07:41:14 -0500
Message-Id: <H00011160b84be34@MHS>
Subject: RE: loop instrument
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        zvonar@zvonar.com
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Can you take my e-mail address off your mailing list.

                     Thanks

                     normand.charette@citicorp.com


   -----Original Message-----
   From:       zvonar [SMTP:zvonar@zvonar.com]
   Sent:       Tuesday, December 18, 2001 5:20 PM
   To:         swirlee; Loopers-Delight
   Cc:         zvonar; chrisolden
   Subject:    re: loop instrument
   
   At 12:53 PM -0800 12/18/01, Jan Pek wrote:
   
   >I am interested in this way of looking at looping 'as an 
   >instrument'. I am working on processes and tools to help bring 
   >fluidity into looping. May I ask, what kind of interface would you 
   >like to see in a loop instrument? How do you see yourself 'playing' 
   >such an instrument? What form would it have? How would you interact?
   
   I'm not sure if I should be the one to respond (you quote my 
   comments) or if Chris Olden should (your message was cc'ed and 
   directed to him) or if we all should have a whack at it (I expect the
   
   latter).
   
   -- 
   
   ______________________________________________________________
   Richard Zvonar, PhD
   (818) 788-2202
   http://www.zvonar.com
   http://RZCybernetics.com
   http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
   http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz
   
   
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--openmail-part-2ac162bb-00000002--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 19 08:10:57 2001
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Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 07:49:26 -0500
Old-Return-Path: <normand.charette@citicorp.com>
From: normand.charette@citicorp.com
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Priority: Urgent
Importance: High
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 07:40:20 -0500
Message-Id: <H00011160b84bdea@MHS>
Subject: RE: Central Coast Loop Fest
MIME-Version: 1.0
TO: biffoz@pacbell.net, chillyb@cruzio.com, ekstasis1@hotmail.com,
        GLOBAL@cruzio.com, hans@ernieball.com, KILLINFO@aol.com,
        Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com, mark_hamburg@baymoon.com,
        matthias@grob.org, rich@nuvisionsca.com, sine@zerocrossing.net,
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Can you take my e-mail address off your mailing list.

                     Thanks

                     normand.charette@citicorp.com


   -----Original Message-----
   From:       hans [SMTP:hans@ernieball.com]
   Sent:       Tuesday, December 18, 2001 8:43 PM
   To:         GLOBAL; ekstasis1; Loopers-Delight; matthias; hans;
               KILLINFO; rich; srice44; stanitarium; TomHeasley; sine;
               mark.hamburg; biffoz; zvonar; chillyb
   Cc:         hans
   Subject:    Central Coast Loop Fest
   
   Dear Loopers,
   
   You may have read my e-mail (or will soon, if you get the digest) to
   the
   booking agent of one of the local bars, which I cc:'d to Looper's
   Delight, trying to get him to let us have the CCLF at SLO Brewing
   Company.  If such is the case, you may have noticed that at the end
   of
   the message I promised him a demo of the music we will be creating at
   the festival.
   
   So at this time I would like to ask everybody who is still interested
   in
   participating to either e-mail me a link to your music on-line, or to
   snail-mail me a CD to:
   
   Hans Lindauer
   549 Los Osos Valley Rd.
   Los Osos, CA 93402
   
   Please be aware that I intend to burn this material to CD, but only
   to
   try to get a [free] venue and/or sponsorships to cover any costs, at
   this time.  MP3-quality tunes should suffice for this purpose, as
   time
   is of the essence for this phase of the project.  As the event draws
   nearer, I would like to put together a CD-quality disk to distribute
   to
   radio stations and print media to try to get some free press for the
   event (and for you).  So if you send me a link to your music, please
   also mail me a CD and press packet, if possible.
   
   Matthias Grob has e-mailed me to let me know that he may be in the
   area
   at the time of the event, and if he can make it he has offered to
   demo
   the Echoplex Digital Pro with the new Loop 4 software.  This presents
   the idea of a looper's workshop.  It would be nice if others would
   volunteer to demonstrate their looper(s) of choice in a
   non-performance
   setting.
   
   I'd like to thank everyone who has shown interest - you may notice
   that
   the participant list has grown since the last time I posted to LD
   concerning the festival.  Thanks especially to Rick Walker for
   planting
   the seed of this idea.  Here's everybody so far:
   
   Rick Walker
   Miko Biffle
   Max Valentino
   Rich Atkinson
   Ted Killian
   Steven Rice
   Stan Card
   Jon Wagner
   Bill Walker
   Richard Zvonar
   Tom Heasley
   Mark Sottilaro
   Matthias Grob
   Mark Hamburg
   Hans Lindauer
   
   
   -Hans
   
   
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 19 08:11:50 2001
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Can you take my e-mail address off your mailing list.

                     Thanks

                     normand.charette@citicorp.com


   -----Original Message-----
   From:       zvonar [SMTP:zvonar@zvonar.com]
   Sent:       Tuesday, December 18, 2001 3:57 PM
   To:         Loopers-Delight
   Cc:         zvonar
   Subject:    Re: re.Looping Memories
   
   At 11:09 AM -0800 12/18/01, William R. Walker, wrote:
   >Hey Richard Z.!
   >PS.. Ting Tang Walla Walla bing bang
   
   A bit of David Saville trivia:
   
   Saville's real name is Ross Bagdasarian. He was the nephew of author 
   William Saroyan, with whom he wrote the song "Come on a My House." 
   The 1951 record, produced by Mitch Miller, was a runaway hit for 
   Rosemary Clooney (George Clooney's aunt).
   
   To show just how intertwined the music world is: Rosemary Clooney was
   
   a regular on "Your Hit Parade." The show's band leader was Raymond 
   Scott, the inventor of several early electronic music instruments 
   including what may have been the first sequencer.
   -- 
   
   ______________________________________________________________
   Richard Zvonar, PhD
   (818) 788-2202
   http://www.zvonar.com
   http://RZCybernetics.com
   http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
   http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz
   
   
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Can you take my e-mail address off your mailing list.

                     Thanks

                     normand.charette@citicorp.com


   -----Original Message-----
   From:       zvonar [SMTP:zvonar@zvonar.com]
   Sent:       Tuesday, December 18, 2001 3:59 PM
   To:         Loopers-Delight
   Cc:         zvonar
   Subject:    Re: FIRST LOOPING MEMORIES
   
   At 11:07 AM -0800 12/18/01, William R. Walker, wrote:
   >you must not have down too much damage to your brain with chemicals.
   
   >Your memory is far too elephantine for that.
   
   I do have trouble remembering from one moment to the next, however. 
   Maybe that's why I like looping; it reminds me of what I just did.
   -- 
   
   ______________________________________________________________
   Richard Zvonar, PhD
   (818) 788-2202
   http://www.zvonar.com
   http://RZCybernetics.com
   http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
   http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz
   
   
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Can you take my e-mail address off your mailing list.

                     Thanks

                     normand.charette@citicorp.com


   -----Original Message-----
   From:       swirlee [SMTP:swirlee@angelfire.com]
   Sent:       Tuesday, December 18, 2001 3:54 PM
   To:         Loopers-Delight
   Cc:         swirlee; chrisolden
   Subject:    re: loop instrument
   
    >Because I'm rarely performing on a conventional instrument, I can 
   >devote my attention to the looping system in such a way that it IS
   an 
   >instrument. Thus I rarely let looped material just "sit" in the 
   >musical texture. I often "capture and dump" material at a rapid
   pace, 
   >or I may capture several simultaneous loops of contrasting materials
   
   >and bring them in and out of the mix.
   
   Chris-
   
   I am interested in this way of looking at looping 'as an instrument'.
   I am working on processes and tools to help bring fluidity into
   looping. May I ask, what kind of interface would you like to see in a
   loop instrument? How do you see yourself 'playing' such an
   instrument? What form would it have? How would you interact? 
   
   What about collaboration with other people? In your vision, could
   more than one person be playing the loop instrument at a time?
   
   For example, I grew up improvising piano, so it is easy for me to
   imagine an interface where new loops are automatically mapped across
   a keyboard, allowing me to 'play' them.  I also grew up programming,
   so I can relate to an interface with macro-like commands like 'F1B4'
   fade loop 1 out over four counts.
   
   Right now I'm looking at core principles for loop technology. Here
   are some thoughts:
   
   Everything is breathing
   There is no final product
   Only the rhythm of returning
   Only the growth of resonance
   
   Mill - Sawdust
   Process - Byproduct
   MILL "The Circular Process by which Grooves are Cut"
   
   the process by which the process is developed is itself the process.
   there is no stable architecture. the song is the singing.
   
   DISC EROS-
   wheels revolving within wheels, imprinted with sound, synchronized by
   crystal clocks
   
   time becomes resonant 
   dream antenna
   
   basic principles?
   * Individuality. -different physical arrangements expose process- UI
   decoupled from core process. A guitarist plays it differently than a
   keyboardist.
   
   * Fluidity- the loop process does not disrupt the channel by forcing
   structure. does not take the improviser away from his flow.
   
   * Simplicity- honor limits.
   
   * Community- encourage collaboration.
   
   * History- there is no product to store, only the reverberations of
   the past. material that is unused, fades away. equally, processes and
   experiments that are fruitless, fade away.
   
   * Association- loops are linked to one another by their use together.
   when two loops are sounding together, this creates a magnetic link
   between. loops self-organize into a network based on the activities
   of the conductor (that's you!). this helps the conductor to find
   related loops fluidly.
   
   * Ant medicine- things grow in their own rhythm,  take small steps.
   
    
   many thanks,
   -yon
   
   
   
   Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
   http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/
   
   
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--openmail-part-2ac1637b-00000002--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 19 08:42:52 2001
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CC: 
From: "p koniuto" <taghairm@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: FIRST LOOPING MEMORIES
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[Todd R.:]

>I now produce my own 'new music theater show'  which includes
my own
>loop-based music and music of others including phil kline, evan
ziporyn, and
>theo bleckmann, a vocal looper.  I'll include the sites 

Does Evan Ziporyn's original music ever involve
live looping?  I've heard the wonderful pieces
he's composed for the MIT gamelan ensemble, and
i've seen/heard him perform with Bang On A Can
doing Music For Airports, among other things.

I've really enjoyed a lot of what he does, but
i don't think i've heard any overt use of looping
in any of his pieces.  If there are some, could
you point them out?  Thanks!

-peter



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 19 08:54:16 2001
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Subject: Re: re.Looping Memories
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 13:26:23 -0000
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Hm, there's an echo in here.  Go look at http://www.loopers-delight.com and
perform the action of removing yourself from the list.

----- Original Message -----
From: <normand.charette@citicorp.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>; <zvonar@zvonar.com>
Sent: 19 December 2001 12:41 PM
Subject: RE: re.Looping Memories


> Can you take my e-mail address off your mailing list.
>
>                      Thanks
>
>                      normand.charette@citicorp.com
>
>
>    -----Original Message-----
>    From:       zvonar [SMTP:zvonar@zvonar.com]
>    Sent:       Tuesday, December 18, 2001 3:57 PM
>    To:         Loopers-Delight
>    Cc:         zvonar
>    Subject:    Re: re.Looping Memories
>
>    At 11:09 AM -0800 12/18/01, William R. Walker, wrote:
>    >Hey Richard Z.!
>    >PS.. Ting Tang Walla Walla bing bang
>
>    A bit of David Saville trivia:
>
>    Saville's real name is Ross Bagdasarian. He was the nephew of author
>    William Saroyan, with whom he wrote the song "Come on a My House."
>    The 1951 record, produced by Mitch Miller, was a runaway hit for
>    Rosemary Clooney (George Clooney's aunt).
>
>    To show just how intertwined the music world is: Rosemary Clooney was
>
>    a regular on "Your Hit Parade." The show's band leader was Raymond
>    Scott, the inventor of several early electronic music instruments
>    including what may have been the first sequencer.
>    --
>
>    ______________________________________________________________
>    Richard Zvonar, PhD
>    (818) 788-2202
>    http://www.zvonar.com
>    http://RZCybernetics.com
>    http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
>    http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 19 10:09:03 2001
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From: "Christopher White" <magicicada@charter.net>
Subject: Re: re.Looping Memories
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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I mailed your privatley about removing yourself..please stop
spamming the board it is filling up my mailbox.


On Wed, 19 Dec 2001 07:41:33 -0500
 normand.charette@citicorp.com wrote:
> Can you take my e-mail address off your mailing list.
> 
>                      Thanks
> 
>                      normand.charette@citicorp.com
> 
> 
>    -----Original Message-----
>    From:       zvonar [SMTP:zvonar@zvonar.com]
>    Sent:       Tuesday, December 18, 2001 3:57 PM
>    To:         Loopers-Delight
>    Cc:         zvonar
>    Subject:    Re: re.Looping Memories
>    
>    At 11:09 AM -0800 12/18/01, William R. Walker, wrote:
>    >Hey Richard Z.!
>    >PS.. Ting Tang Walla Walla bing bang
>    
>    A bit of David Saville trivia:
>    
>    Saville's real name is Ross Bagdasarian. He was the
> nephew of author 
>    William Saroyan, with whom he wrote the song "Come on
> a My House." 
>    The 1951 record, produced by Mitch Miller, was a
> runaway hit for 
>    Rosemary Clooney (George Clooney's aunt).
>    
>    To show just how intertwined the music world is:
> Rosemary Clooney was
>    
>    a regular on "Your Hit Parade." The show's band leader
> was Raymond 
>    Scott, the inventor of several early electronic music
> instruments 
>    including what may have been the first sequencer.
>    -- 
>    
>    ______________________________________________________________
>    Richard Zvonar, PhD
>    (818) 788-2202
>    http://www.zvonar.com
>    http://RZCybernetics.com
>    http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
>    http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz
>    
>    

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 19 13:14:56 2001
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Subject: Re: FIRST LOOPING MEMORIES
From: todd reynolds <toddreynolds@rcn.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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No, not quite yet.  But almost.  A couple of the duo pieces he's written for
us come pretty close to sounding like it, though no electronics involved.
And of course the duo pieces I write for us do include live looping.   They
are not released yet, but if you are interested in hearing some, let me
know.

We are beginning a trio next year with David Cossin (www.davidcossin.com),
who also loops, where we will all be synced up with Plexes probably,  we'll
do sets of improvised and written pieces.  If you're up in boston, we'll for
sure do a set or two up there...

-todd




On 12/19/01 5:15 AM, "p koniuto" <taghairm@mindspring.com> wrote:

> 
> 
> [Todd R.:]
> 
>> I now produce my own 'new music theater show'  which includes
> my own
>> loop-based music and music of others including phil kline, evan
> ziporyn, and
>> theo bleckmann, a vocal looper.  I'll include the sites
> 
> Does Evan Ziporyn's original music ever involve
> live looping?  I've heard the wonderful pieces
> he's composed for the MIT gamelan ensemble, and
> i've seen/heard him perform with Bang On A Can
> doing Music For Airports, among other things.
> 
> I've really enjoyed a lot of what he does, but
> i don't think i've heard any overt use of looping
> in any of his pieces.  If there are some, could
> you point them out?  Thanks!
> 
> -peter
> 
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 19 13:19:23 2001
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com, "Richard Zvonar" <zvonar@zvonar.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:50:14 -0800
From: "Jan Pek" <swirlee@angelfire.com>
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..
>>fluidity into looping. May I ask, what kind of interface would you 
>>like to see in a loop instrument? How do you see yourself 'playing' 
>>such an instrument? What form would it have? How would you interact?
>
>I'm not sure if I should be the one to respond (you quote my 
>comments) or if Chris Olden should (your message was cc'ed and 
>directed to him) or if we all should have a whack at it (I expect the 
>latter).

y'all have a crack at it!

-yon



Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 19 13:35:45 2001
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..
>>fluidity into looping. May I ask, what kind of interface would you 
>>like to see in a loop instrument? How do you see yourself 'playing' 
>>such an instrument? What form would it have? How would you interact?
>
>I'm not sure if I should be the one to respond (you quote my 
>comments) or if Chris Olden should (your message was cc'ed and 
>directed to him) or if we all should have a whack at it (I expect the 
>latter).

y'all have a crack at it!

-yon



Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 19 13:37:12 2001
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At 10:42 PM -0800 12/18/01, todd reynolds wrote:

>during one or two visits to California, Richard graciously invited 
>me to come make some music with him at his place,

That was in 1992, I believe.  Playing with Todd was great fun. He's a 
superb musician with a ready talent for electroacoustic improvisation.

At the time he had a Boss SE50, and we tried to make some sense out 
of its system exclusive implementation in order to try controlling 
parameters real-time. The printed sysex spec was a bit impenetrable, 
so I called Roland tech support to try to sort it out (dream on!). I 
talked to a snotty young man who told me that he was "too busy making 
music" to bother with such things as MIDI sysex. Big mistake. I 
reported him to a friend of mine who was a senior engineer at Roland.

>That's when I bought my first set of Lexicons and Midi-pedals 
>(midigators, both.)

The Mitigator RFC-1 and CFC-4 were current models then. Todd and I 
visited (the long lamented) Valley Arts Guitar Center to check them 
out. I had been investigating MIDI foot controllers for Jon Hassell, 
who had just bought an Eventide H3000. There wasn't much available in 
those days, and it was down to a choice between the Forte Music 
Mentor and the Lake Butler MIDI Mitigator RFC-1. The Mentor was a 
nifty device, with a table top remote and extensive MIDI mapping 
capabilities, but the RFC-1 was robust and easy to use. Jon had his 
modified so that the switches were more sensitive (the originals were 
designed to withstand Leslie West).


-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

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-snip-
 It'll probably be of only marginal value to send a CD of ambient music to a death-metal e-zine or radio program specializing in polka music (unless you happen to be into ambient death-polka ... hmmm... sounds
kinda interesting). 
-end snip-

okay, what's up with the ambient death-polka thing?  This was something I used to say when someone would ask what kind of music I played "Oh, you know, your standard death-metal-ambient-polka".  That was until about a month ago, when someone told me that there actually WAS a death-metal polka band on the west coast (forgot the name - Dr.Z?), though I don't know if they ever produced music one would call "ambient" (unless you consider either death-metal or polka simultaneously ignorable and engrosing) . . . I think we may have all caught a bad case of the memes . . .

                  aaroneous 

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[Todd R:]

> No, not quite yet.  But almost.  A couple of the duo pieces

> he's written for
> us come pretty close to sounding like it, though no 
> electronics involved.
> And of course the duo pieces I write for us do include live

> looping.   They
> are not released yet, but if you are interested in hearing

> some, let me
> know.

Love to!  And will they be released?

> We are beginning a trio next year with David Cossin 
> (www.davidcossin.com),
> who also loops, where we will all be synced up with Plexes

> probably,  we'll
> do sets of improvised and written pieces.  If you're up in

> boston, we'll for
> sure do a set or two up there...

*DO* gig-spam the list as in advance as you can...
i'll be there.  Sounds like quite a trio!

-peter




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At 1:22 PM -0500 12/19/01, AaroneousAG@aol.com wrote:

>okay, what's up with the ambient death-polka thing?  This was 
>something I used to say when someone would ask what kind of music I 
>played "Oh, you know, your standard death-metal-ambient-polka". 
>That was until about a month ago, when someone told me that there 
>actually WAS a death-metal polka band on the west coast (forgot the 
>name - Dr.Z?)

There's a "polka till you puke" band named Polkacide, from San Francisco.

	http://www.polkacide.com

Critical Details

* " ... explosive mix that sounds like the Sex Pistols on kishka!" 
... Barfly Newspaper - Chicago, 4/2000

* "... an astounding performance by San Francisco- based ten-piece 
Polkacide. ...the `Cide rocked the Burning Man ..." Strobe Magazine

* " And right on the cutting edge of this most misunderstood of 
polyrhythms is San Francisco's Polkacide, America's premier hardcore 
polka band." ...Amy Linden, Spin Magazine

* " It's like a disease...no, it's like an apocalypse...no, it's like 
your worst nightmare of a Midwestern family reunion! It's Polkacide." 
... Music Calendar, S.F. Chronicle

-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz
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<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 }
 --></style><title>Re: Subject: Get your looping music on ther
airwaves (</title></head><body>
<div>At 1:22 PM -0500 12/19/01, AaroneousAG@aol.com wrote:</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>okay, what's up with the ambient
death-polka thing?&nbsp; This was something I used to say when someone
would ask what kind of music I played &quot;Oh, you know, your
standard death-metal-ambient-polka&quot;.&nbsp; That was until about a
month ago, when someone told me that there actually WAS a death-metal
polka band on the west coast (forgot the name - Dr.Z?)</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>There's a &quot;polka till you puke&quot; band named Polkacide,
from San Francisco.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</x-tab>http://www.polkacide.com</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="+2" color="#000000"><b>Critical
Details</b></font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman" size="+3"
color="#000000"><br></font></div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="+1" color="#000000">* &quot; ...
explosive mix that sounds like the Sex Pistols on kishka!&quot; ...
Barfly Newspaper - Chicago, 4/2000</font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman" size="+3"
color="#000000"><br></font></div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="+1" color="#000000">* &quot;... an
astounding performance by San Francisco- based ten-piece Polkacide.
...the `Cide rocked the Burning Man ...&quot; Strobe
Magazine</font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman" size="+3"
color="#000000"><br></font></div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="+1" color="#000000">* &quot; And right
on the cutting edge of this most misunderstood of polyrhythms is San
Francisco's Polkacide, America's premier hardcore polka band.&quot;
...Amy Linden, Spin Magazine</font></div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman" size="+3"
color="#000000"><br></font></div>
<div><font face="Verdana" size="+1" color="#000000">* &quot; It's like
a disease...no, it's like an apocalypse...no, it's like your worst
nightmare of a Midwestern family reunion! It's Polkacide.&quot; ...
Music Calendar, S.F. Chronicle</font></div>
<div><br></div>
<x-sigsep><pre>-- 
</pre></x-sigsep>
<div><br>
______________________________________________________________<br>
Richard Zvonar, PhD<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</x-tab><br>
(818) 788-2202<x-tab>&nbsp;
</x-tab><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</x-tab><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</x-tab><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</x-tab><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </x-tab><br>
http://www.zvonar.com<br>
http://RZCybernetics.com<br>
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone<br>
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz</div>
</body>
</html>
--============_-1203334197==_ma============--

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-snip-
 It'll probably be of only marginal value to send a CD of ambient music to a death-metal e-zine or radio program specializing in polka music (unless you happen to be into ambient death-polka ... hmmm... sounds
kinda interesting). 
-end snip-

okay, what's up with the ambient death-polka thing?  This was something I used to say when someone would ask what kind of music I played "Oh, you know, your standard death-metal-ambient-polka".  That was until about a month ago, when someone told me that there actually WAS a death-metal polka band on the west coast (forgot the name - Dr.Z?), though I don't know if they ever produced music one would call "ambient" (unless you consider either death-metal or polka simultaneously ignorable and engrosing) . . . I think we may have all caught a bad case of the memes . . .

                  aaroneous 


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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 19 15:54:20 2001
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I lifted the following chunk from an email I received a long time ago out
promoting an acquaintance's progrock band:

"We'll be paying tribute to the classic Hungarian techno death polka
bands of the late 80's. So if you're into cookie-monster vocals sung in
Hungarian ensnared with screaming fuzzed out accordian solos over heavy
TB-303 thumping, ummm...well...you should probably see a doctor, because
the whole idea is just too silly to imagine. Strike this paragraph. You
never saw it."

My reaction to the above was to put an accordian on my shopping list if I
ever ran across a good one cheap, but I haven't followed through yet.

regards,
Steve
burnett@pobox.com

On Wed, 19 Dec 2001 AaroneousAG@aol.com wrote:

>
> -snip-
>  It'll probably be of only marginal value to send a CD of ambient music to a death-metal e-zine or radio program specializing in polka music (unless you happen to be into ambient death-polka ... hmmm... sounds
> kinda interesting).
> -end snip-
>
> okay, what's up with the ambient death-polka thing?  This was something I used to say when someone would ask what kind of music I played "Oh, you know, your standard death-metal-ambient-polka".  That was until about a month ago, when someone told me that there actually WAS a death-metal polka band on the west coast (forgot the name - Dr.Z?), though I don't know if they ever produced music one would call "ambient" (unless you consider either death-metal or polka simultaneously ignorable and engrosing) . . . I think we may have all caught a bad case of the memes . . .
>
>                   aaroneous
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 19 16:10:27 2001
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 12:33:52 -0800
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all this polka talk reminded me of a strange instrument i ran across 
a couple of years ago, but passed on...

At the local swap meet, a hispanic couple had a Farfisa Accordian, 
which i didn't buy, since we couldn't seem to get the bellows to 
open.  Strange, though...it had a 1/4" jack on it, and the lady said 
there was a speaker that went with it (at home...why they didn't 
bring that too, i'll never know.  Although they knew VERY little 
about the instrument and i suspect they picked it up from someone 
else.)

A Farfisa Electric Accordian, maybe?  anybody ever seen such a thing? 
It was damn cool looking.  I just didn't need another headache on my 
hands... and i already had a hammered dulcimer, which covered me in 
the 'odd instrument i need to apply much more time than i have to 
master in any sort of reasonable manner' department.

best,

rich

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 19 17:52:57 2001
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I suspect my first idea of looping started (near 1984) with the "freeze"
function of my first effect: a Yamaha Spx 90.
the problem was you had to push all the time a button on the front panel to
make it start.
It was really short (maybe 1").
then a boss digital delay stomp box
then a gsp 2101
then, getting mad to reach it, an EDP !
but, the most important thing was that, 3 years ago,  I realized there was a
world making those strange things I was trying to do with my gtr, feeling
them not so "strange".
It was a very important moment and Looper's delight has had the main
responsability on that.

luca

.... .    . . . ... . . . ...   .    . . .. .. .. ..... .    . . ..
www.unguitar.com

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Just wondering if anyone here knows if Shane Radke is on vacation or...? =
I have left mssgs and email with no response - need to get my EDP =
serviced asap- thanks-=20

Cliff

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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Just wondering if anyone here knows if Shane Radke =
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todd,

>I have always been amazed at dt's great spirit in participating in the
>conversation, and I, too, check out many of his posts just to hear a real
>'educated by intense experience' type of viewpoint.  I also feel the same
>about kim and matthias and others, for the record.  I am once again amazed
>by a real patient and sane response by mr. Torn, especially given the
>strength and heat of some of pb's inflammatory comments.

thanks for the positives aimed in my general direction!
for the sake of clarity, though, i wanna point out that the only reason that 
*i* felt bad about that murky miscommunication was when i understood that 
peter b. was shutting down his activity with *everybody* @ LD, as a result of 
*our* misunderstanding --- i'm sure this place offers some value/insight to 
all-those-who-loop, which small social-group would & should certainly include 
him.
(ain't no other loop-communities that i know about, which gives LD a certain 
weight --- as scattered & tattered a community as we might be).
best,
dt / splattercell


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 19 20:34:10 2001
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Geez, you have a memory, richard... Thanks for the refresher...  I now
remember it all.   

So, believe it or not, I sold my RFC-1 and have regretted it ever since.
I'm now in my third month of research for a good midi-pedal, but the more I
get into max, the more I realize I might just need a few switches and
expression pedals...  Or god forbid, overkill it with an i-cube.  The info
here on the list has been helpful,  but sometimes pushing the buttons is
necessary, for instance, I have more clicks and pops from my dl4 pedals than
I can handle when I'm recorded live to a stereo mic.  Them things is loud as
s**t.   

And now, believe it or not as well, I'm looking for an Boss SE-70... And
researching the eclipse, and my lexicon g2 is the noisiest unit ever...

It all comes around...  Sometimes I think, never sell a piece of gear, and
then I realize, we're just engaged in a big trading circle...



On 12/19/01 10:01 AM, "Richard Zvonar" <zvonar@zvonar.com> wrote:

> At 10:42 PM -0800 12/18/01, todd reynolds wrote:
> 
>> during one or two visits to California, Richard graciously invited
>> me to come make some music with him at his place,
> 
> That was in 1992, I believe.  Playing with Todd was great fun. He's a
> superb musician with a ready talent for electroacoustic improvisation.
> 
> At the time he had a Boss SE50, and we tried to make some sense out
> of its system exclusive implementation in order to try controlling
> parameters real-time. The printed sysex spec was a bit impenetrable,
> so I called Roland tech support to try to sort it out (dream on!). I
> talked to a snotty young man who told me that he was "too busy making
> music" to bother with such things as MIDI sysex. Big mistake. I
> reported him to a friend of mine who was a senior engineer at Roland.
> 
>> That's when I bought my first set of Lexicons and Midi-pedals
>> (midigators, both.)
> 
> The Mitigator RFC-1 and CFC-4 were current models then. Todd and I
> visited (the long lamented) Valley Arts Guitar Center to check them
> out. I had been investigating MIDI foot controllers for Jon Hassell,
> who had just bought an Eventide H3000. There wasn't much available in
> those days, and it was down to a choice between the Forte Music
> Mentor and the Lake Butler MIDI Mitigator RFC-1. The Mentor was a
> nifty device, with a table top remote and extensive MIDI mapping
> capabilities, but the RFC-1 was robust and easy to use. Jon had his
> modified so that the switches were more sensitive (the originals were
> designed to withstand Leslie West).
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 19 20:39:02 2001
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scattered perhaps, but TATTERED? Not in our new shirts, no way!

-jas
t-shirt guy
Albuquerque

Hedewa7@aol.com wrote:

>  <snip>

> --- as scattered & tattered a community as we might be).
> best,
> dt / splattercell

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From: <Hedewa7@aol.com>

> i've also got 2 switchable mics built into my main gtr, which can be bent to 
> this purpose, as well as having a switchable 1/4-inch *input* on the gtr.....

That is a Great Concept - it's easy to be spontaneous and wherever
you bring your guitar, you have immediate audio inputs into your
effects and loops without a mixer, more wires, stands and such.

Are you using any special mics for these purposes?
ie - can they (when switched in) go right into the guitar input on
an effects unit without special preamping or rude volume imbalances?

Now that I'm thinking more about this - are they upstream from your volume knob
or do they have their own volume knob(s)? Any insight would be appreciated
as I'm excited about this possibility for making more holes in and more noise from
my poor Strat. Thanks.

Cheers,
Scott M2

http://www.dreamSTATE.to
ambientelectronicsoundscapes
http://www.mp3.com/dreamSTATE


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 19 21:17:34 2001
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Subject: Loopers in Palm Springs?
From: todd reynolds <toddreynolds@rcn.com>
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Hey all,

I'm hangin' in palm desert, CA with my folks 'til the 4th..., any loopers
close by?  I got my repeater with me...  And my laptop...

Todd Reynolds

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 19 21:18:39 2001
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On 12/19/01 4:12 PM, "Hedewa7@aol.com" <Hedewa7@aol.com> wrote:

> todd,
> 
>> I have always been amazed at dt's great spirit in participating in the
>> conversation, and I, too, check out many of his posts just to hear a real
>> 'educated by intense experience' type of viewpoint.  I also feel the same
>> about kim and matthias and others, for the record.  I am once again amazed
>> by a real patient and sane response by mr. Torn, especially given the
>> strength and heat of some of pb's inflammatory comments.
> 
> thanks for the positives aimed in my general direction!
> for the sake of clarity, though, i wanna point out that the only reason that
> *i* felt bad about that murky miscommunication was when i understood that
> peter b. was shutting down his activity with *everybody* @ LD, as a result of
> *our* misunderstanding --- i'm sure this place offers some value/insight to
> all-those-who-loop, which small social-group would & should certainly include
> him.
> (ain't no other loop-communities that i know about, which gives LD a certain
> weight --- as scattered & tattered a community as we might be).
> best,
> dt / splattercell
> 
> 


I got it.  Thanks for the clarity.  Once again, very generous, and that is
my point...  We all gotta cut each other some slack, and this exchange
seemed to me so very one-sidedly generous and the other-sidedly
*in*-tolerant.  I want everyone to have their say as you do, of course, and
this IS our only resource and community, and it's a great one, far as I'm
concerned.  I don't know if pb will ever read my post or not, but the
purpose behind it was to support clearing a space for that sort of tolerance
necessary to maintain the list in good faith.  Of course, now that I've
reread *my* post, I find it unnecessarily inflammatory as well, (sorry, pb).
I remember getting quite a scolding from kim once, but the FIRST thing I did
was to find a way not to take it personally...  For someone unable to do
that, maybe unsubscribe *is* the best option, for all of us.  So for me, I'm
sorry pb won't be joining us, but it's a big sandbox, and if he can't play
nice, then other ones won't wanna play... MORAL:  don't throw sand,  at 95%
feedback, it gets real messy...  Never lands...  Just hits you in the
face...

I talk too much.  

todd 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 19 21:43:48 2001
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Subject: wanting to make the right choice
From: rob seiffert <rseiffert@communica-usa.com>
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i am an acoustic guitar player, aspiring to do things like Phil Keagey
(sp?), or michael hedges (still light-years from it talent & gear wise). i
am looking for a looping device that would be ideal for an acoustic guitar/
live performance setup.  i assumed it was the EDP, or is the repeater
something to consider? thanks for any help.
-- 
rob seiffert

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--Apple-Mail-1-446460875
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Phil Keaggy uses a Lexicon JamMan, but an EDP works great too, and I'm 
positive that a Repeater would be way cool too. The EDP has a much 
longer loop time than a JamMan, and the Repeater has that cool memory 
storage thing going for it.
You have to decide what you want to do, how much you want to spend, and 
then make the most of what you've got.
Keaggy plays the JamMan like a violin... he is THE JamMan in my book!

I have an EDP and am using it right now with my Taylor plugged directly 
into it. Coolness!

> i am an acoustic guitar player, aspiring to do things like Phil Keagey
> (sp?), or michael hedges (still light-years from it talent & gear 
> wise). i
> am looking for a looping device that would be ideal for an acoustic 
> guitar/
> live performance setup.  i assumed it was the EDP, or is the repeater
> something to consider? thanks for any help.
>
__________________________
Doug Miller
Graphic Designer

http://www.dispatch.com
http://www.cccn.org
http://home.columbus.rr.com/dmiller

--Apple-Mail-1-446460875
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Phil Keaggy uses a Lexicon JamMan, but an EDP works great too, and I'm
positive that a Repeater would be way cool too. The EDP has a much
longer loop time than a JamMan, and the Repeater has that cool memory
storage thing going for it.

You have to decide what you want to do, how much you want to spend,
and then make the most of what you've got. 

Keaggy plays the JamMan like a violin... he is THE JamMan in my book!


I have an EDP and am using it right now with my Taylor plugged
directly into it. Coolness!


<excerpt>i am an acoustic guitar player, aspiring to do things like
Phil Keagey

(sp?), or michael hedges (still light-years from it talent & gear
wise). i

am looking for a looping device that would be ideal for an acoustic
guitar/

live performance setup.  i assumed it was the EDP, or is the repeater

something to consider? thanks for any help.


</excerpt><fontfamily><param>Helvetica</param><smaller><smaller>__________________________

Doug Miller

Graphic Designer


http://www.dispatch.com

http://www.cccn.org

http://home.columbus.rr.com/dmiller</smaller></smaller></fontfamily>
--Apple-Mail-1-446460875--

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Subject: My First Impressions Of The Repeater: A non guitarists point of view
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 22:47:11 -0500
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WOW

I just got the repeater in the post today and I must say I am completely
and utterly blown away by this fantastic device. I have ran everything
though it from my waterphone,contact miced power outlets, vocals, korg
ms10, etc... and am very happy with the results. Funny thing is my
repeater did not come with a manual for some reason not that it matters,
this thing is fully functional out of the box. Everything is right there
labeled clearly on the front panel---no call for massive menu searching!


I need to dive deeper still into this piece (only been running it for 2
hours now) but I must state again: I am completely impressed with this
little device. Thanks electrixs guys and gals---keep it coming!
Regards and respect,
Christopher White

PS 
I thought this thing was going to be all plastic_E feeling...how wrong I
was! Tis' built like a tank she is!

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 20 10:10:06 2001
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hey there,


 i just finished mixing a new phil keaggy record that i produced and
recorded here at my studio. he does use the jamman and i even convinced
gibson (when they were still responding to phone calls....) to send him an
echoplex, but it was too much new technology for him. personally, i think if
he had gotten into it it would have been a powerful tool for him, but the
way he uses a jamman is like no other. he is also using the upgraded bob
sellon chip with a midi controller to do a lot of stuff.

 on another topic,   can anyone recommend a large STABLE, FAST cfc card for
the repeater? i need to get one today it needs to be at least 64bmeg and
i'[d perfer larger.


thanks




ric



-- 
monk@fuse.net
www.monkmusic.com
on 12/19/01 10:20 PM, Doug Miller at dmiller3@columbus.rr.com wrote:

> Phil Keaggy uses a Lexicon JamMan, but an EDP works great too, and I'm
> positive that a Repeater would be way cool too. The EDP has a much
> longer loop time than a JamMan, and the Repeater has that cool memory
> storage thing going for it.
> You have to decide what you want to do, how much you want to spend, and
> then make the most of what you've got.
> Keaggy plays the JamMan like a violin... he is THE JamMan in my book!
> 
> I have an EDP and am using it right now with my Taylor plugged directly
> into it. Coolness!
> 
>> i am an acoustic guitar player, aspiring to do things like Phil Keagey
>> (sp?), or michael hedges (still light-years from it talent & gear
>> wise). i
>> am looking for a looping device that would be ideal for an acoustic
>> guitar/
>> live performance setup.  i assumed it was the EDP, or is the repeater
>> something to consider? thanks for any help.
>> 
> __________________________
> Doug Miller
> Graphic Designer
> 
> http://www.dispatch.com
> http://www.cccn.org
> http://home.columbus.rr.com/dmiller
> 


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 20 10:59:19 2001
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From: jim palmer <jimp@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: wanting to make the right choice
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wow, how are you typing?

> 
> I have an EDP and am using it right now with my Taylor plugged directly 
> into it. Coolness!
> 
>....
> __________________________
> Doug Miller
> Graphic Designer
> 
> http://www.dispatch.com
> http://www.cccn.org
> http://home.columbus.rr.com/dmiller
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 20 11:12:08 2001
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:36:07 -0600
To: "Rick Walker \(loop.pool\)" <GLOBAL@cruzio.com>,
        <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
From: Eric Leonardson <eleon@ripco.com>
Subject: Re: BATTERY POWERED PREAMPS?
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Hi Rick,

Maybe this is old news by now, but I purchased a nice battery powered
preamp from K&K Sound Systems in Portland, OR, on Steuart Liebig's 
recommendation. I ordered it on-line at http://www.kksound.com/.

They have range of models for various tasks, ranging in price. The 
one I got for $80 (including shipping) is designed for piezo-electric 
pickups, and it has helped the sound of the Springboard immensely.

Best regards,
Eric

---------------------
Eric Leonardson: http://pages.ripco.net/~eleon

Upcoming Performances:

Plasticene's "And So I May Return" at the Viaduct, 3111 N. Western 
Ave. Opening February 23, 2002. For more info call (312) 409-0400.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 20 11:15:12 2001
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References: <B84760F0.3BB0%monk@fuse.net>
Subject: Re: wanting to make the right choice
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SimpleTech 256 MB Compact FlashMemory Card
Got mine at Costco in October. $199. minus $30 Rebate
Item #: 393322

----- Original Message -----
From: "mr monk" <monk@fuse.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: wanting to make the right choice


> hey there,
>
>
>  i just finished mixing a new phil keaggy record that i produced and
> recorded here at my studio. he does use the jamman and i even convinced
> gibson (when they were still responding to phone calls....) to send him an
> echoplex, but it was too much new technology for him. personally, i think
if
> he had gotten into it it would have been a powerful tool for him, but the
> way he uses a jamman is like no other. he is also using the upgraded bob
> sellon chip with a midi controller to do a lot of stuff.
>
>  on another topic,   can anyone recommend a large STABLE, FAST cfc card
for
> the repeater? i need to get one today it needs to be at least 64bmeg and
> i'[d perfer larger.
>
>
> thanks
>
>
>
>
> ric
>
>
>
> --
> monk@fuse.net
> www.monkmusic.com
> on 12/19/01 10:20 PM, Doug Miller at dmiller3@columbus.rr.com wrote:
>
> > Phil Keaggy uses a Lexicon JamMan, but an EDP works great too, and I'm
> > positive that a Repeater would be way cool too. The EDP has a much
> > longer loop time than a JamMan, and the Repeater has that cool memory
> > storage thing going for it.
> > You have to decide what you want to do, how much you want to spend, and
> > then make the most of what you've got.
> > Keaggy plays the JamMan like a violin... he is THE JamMan in my book!
> >
> > I have an EDP and am using it right now with my Taylor plugged directly
> > into it. Coolness!
> >
> >> i am an acoustic guitar player, aspiring to do things like Phil Keagey
> >> (sp?), or michael hedges (still light-years from it talent & gear
> >> wise). i
> >> am looking for a looping device that would be ideal for an acoustic
> >> guitar/
> >> live performance setup.  i assumed it was the EDP, or is the repeater
> >> something to consider? thanks for any help.
> >>
> > __________________________
> > Doug Miller
> > Graphic Designer
> >
> > http://www.dispatch.com
> > http://www.cccn.org
> > http://home.columbus.rr.com/dmiller
> >
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 20 12:04:41 2001
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Rich wrote:

>and i already had a hammered dulcimer, which covered me in
>the 'odd instrument i need to apply much more time than i have to
>master in any sort of reasonable manner' department.


. . . that's the story of my life!  ;-)  Except that all my instruments are
"odd" (by most standards) so I have no "regular" or commonly recognized
instruments to fall back on.

Someone approached me after a performance once and said "You have really
weird instruments -- and I don't mean that as an insult!"  I loved it!

Humorously enough, my wife has a hammered dulcimer (which was the cause of
our meeting in the first place), but I've never really given any time to
trying to play it.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 20 12:33:10 2001
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hey eric,

glad it worked. 

i'm not sure if it will help in terms of the question at hand, but K&K is a
good call too. 

sl

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Leonardson [mailto:eleon@ripco.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 7:36 AM
To: Rick Walker (loop.pool); Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: BATTERY POWERED PREAMPS?


Hi Rick,

Maybe this is old news by now, but I purchased a nice battery powered
preamp from K&K Sound Systems in Portland, OR, on Steuart Liebig's 
recommendation. I ordered it on-line at http://www.kksound.com/.

They have range of models for various tasks, ranging in price. The 
one I got for $80 (including shipping) is designed for piezo-electric 
pickups, and it has helped the sound of the Springboard immensely.

Best regards,
Eric

---------------------
Eric Leonardson: http://pages.ripco.net/~eleon

Upcoming Performances:

Plasticene's "And So I May Return" at the Viaduct, 3111 N. Western 
Ave. Opening February 23, 2002. For more info call (312) 409-0400.


<font size="1">Confidentiality Warning:  This e-mail contains information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above.  If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, any dissemination, publication or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. The sender does not accept any responsibility for any loss, disruption or damage to your data or computer system that may occur while using data contained in, or transmitted with, this e-mail.   If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us by return e-mail.  Thank you.


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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>hey eric,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>glad it worked. </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>i'm not sure if it will help in terms of the question at =
hand, but K&amp;K is a good call too. </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>sl</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Eric Leonardson [<A HREF=3D"mailto:eleon@ripco.com=
">mailto:eleon@ripco.com</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 7:36 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: Rick Walker (loop.pool); Loopers-Delight@loopers-del=
ight.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: Re: BATTERY POWERED PREAMPS?</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hi Rick,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Maybe this is old news by now, but I purchased a nice bat=
tery powered</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>preamp from K&amp;K Sound Systems in Portland, OR, on St=
euart Liebig's </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>recommendation. I ordered it on-line at <A HREF=3D"http:=
//www.kksound.com/" TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.kksound.com/</A>.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>They have range of models for various tasks, ranging in p=
rice. The </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>one I got for $80 (including shipping) is designed for p=
iezo-electric </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>pickups, and it has helped the sound of the Springboard =
immensely.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Best regards,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Eric</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>---------------------</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Eric Leonardson: <A HREF=3D"http://pages.ripco.net/~eleo=
n" TARGET=3D"_blank">http://pages.ripco.net/~eleon</A></FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Upcoming Performances:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Plasticene's &quot;And So I May Return&quot; at the Viadu=
ct, 3111 N. Western </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Ave. Opening February 23, 2002. For more info call (312)=
 409-0400.</FONT>
</P>

<CODE><FONT SIZE=3D3><BR>
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on, publication or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. The sende=
r does not accept any responsibility for any loss, disruption or damage to =
your data or computer system that may occur while using data contained in, =
or transmitted with, this e-mail.   If you have received this e-mail in err=
or, please immediately notify us by return e-mail.  Thank you.<BR>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 20 12:42:14 2001
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From: "KEVIN SIMONSON" <RITX075@revenue.state.il.us>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: Slightly OT:  Sustainiac Model B and Chapman Stick
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Greetings all.

Apologies for non-loop bandwidth consumption.  I'm interested in corresponding with anyone who has mounted a Sustainiac Model B on a Chapman Stick.  I'm particularly interested in transducer mounting locations.

Thanks

-Kevin

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 20 12:50:52 2001
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 18:21:58 +0000
Subject: Re: FIRST LOOPING MEMORIES
From: Per Boysen <per@boysen.se>
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> Från: "luca" <lucafeed@tin.it>
> I suspect my first idea of looping started (near 1984) with the "freeze"
> function of my first effect: a Yamaha Spx 90.

1984 was the year that also brought me into looping, thanks to a certain
"Ibanez Hold Delay". And I had a cheap harmoniser as well, which I put in
the effect loop of the delay. Thus, with each delay slap a new chord was
created and textures built up. The effect was mind blowing for me, at that
time :), and I ran away booking a festival gig on the spot. I got so
inspired that I left my main instrument, the guitar (!), and learned enough
tenor sax to blow some sound into that "looping rig" (thought my guitar
playing sounded too traditional for the context). Then I engaged a friend
guitar player to play another loopdelay stomp box. Our loopers were not
synced at all but somehow it worked out anyway - on some gigs together with
a third person reading poetry. I remember we were dreaming about being able
to "brother sync" the machines and also had this vision of several
rhythmically delayed PA systems surrounding us and the audience. The idea
was to set off sound from the stage on a bouncing trip all around the venue.
Never got to try this out, though (time, money and other recording deals got
in the way).

Funny memories to dwell on today when we all have access to 5.1, EDP and
Repeater. 

Per Boysen
Sweden

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 20 13:05:58 2001
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From: "Jamie Drouin (Electrix)" <Jamie@Electrixpro.com>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com'"
	 <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: My First Impressions Of The Repeater: A non guitarists point 
	of view
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:34:59 -0800
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Hi Christopher,

	Thanks for the nice comments about our blue beast. If you email me
your mailing address I'll get a replacement manual out to you. In the
meantime, the complete Repeater manual is available from our website as a
PDF.

Best, Jamie.


Jamie Drouin
Visual Designer
Electrix/IVL Technologies Ltd
6710 Bertram Place, Victoria, BC, V8M 1Z6 Canada

email... jamie@electrixpro.com  fax... 250-544-4102  voice... 250-544-4114



> ----------
> From: 	christopher white
> Reply To: 	Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Sent: 	Wednesday, December 19, 2001 7:47 PM
> To: 	Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: 	My First Impressions Of The Repeater: A non guitarists point
> of view
> 
> WOW
> 
> I just got the repeater in the post today and I must say I am completely
> and utterly blown away by this fantastic device. I have ran everything
> though it from my waterphone,contact miced power outlets, vocals, korg
> ms10, etc... and am very happy with the results. Funny thing is my
> repeater did not come with a manual for some reason not that it matters,
> this thing is fully functional out of the box. Everything is right there
> labeled clearly on the front panel---no call for massive menu searching!
> 
> 
> I need to dive deeper still into this piece (only been running it for 2
> hours now) but I must state again: I am completely impressed with this
> little device. Thanks electrixs guys and gals---keep it coming!
> Regards and respect,
> Christopher White
> 
> PS 
> I thought this thing was going to be all plastic_E feeling...how wrong I
> was! Tis' built like a tank she is!
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 20 14:01:48 2001
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:33:50 -0800
Subject: Re: Slightly OT:  Sustainiac Model B and Chapman Stick
From: Allan Hoeltje <ahoeltje@best.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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Well, it kinda is on topic for looping, I think, since it adds wonderful
texture to Stick/loop playing.  I have a Model B on my Stick and it works
fairly well.

You will have to experiment on location because there is no one best place
for it.  Of course trying different locations is difficult because you will
need to hold it or clamp it in place to get the best effect.  It seemed to
work best for me on back of the head stock but I did not want a wire hanging
from there.  I tried it in various places on the neck but did not want it
were my hands would run into it.  And if it is too close to the pickups it
will just make the most awful squeal you've ever heard.  So I settled on a
spot just above the belt hook.  There are a few dead spots where some notes
will not sustain but for the most part it works.

I did not want to permanently mount the big magnet so I cut out an 1/8 inch
thick steel plate and mounted that with strong adhesive tape.  This may not
be the best solution because, even though the Model B magnet clings to the
steel plate it will fall off if knocked too hard.  I do not worry about this
since I play sitting and do not perform in public.

-Allan


on 12/20/01 9:10 AM, KEVIN SIMONSON at RITX075@revenue.state.il.us wrote:

> Greetings all.
> 
> Apologies for non-loop bandwidth consumption.  I'm interested in corresponding
> with anyone who has mounted a Sustainiac Model B on a Chapman Stick.  I'm
> particularly interested in transducer mounting locations.


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 20 14:14:33 2001
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Anyone know anything about this group member?
Was selling gear, we sent him money, he has sent us nothing

Dick Michaels
Rogue Music NYC


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 20 14:33:30 2001
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From: "KEVIN SIMONSON" <RITX075@revenue.state.il.us>
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Subject: Re: Slightly OT:  Sustainiac Model B and Chapman Stick
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Thanks very much for the info, Allan.  

I've experimented with a few locations (just holding the transducer) and i haven't been impressed by the response.  I'm going to attempt to mount the unit parallel to the "downward" edge of the back of the headstock.  I can't place it between the tuning machines because Tony Levin's signature is there :).

If I may ask, what model of stick do you have (wood vs. poly, grand vs. 10, etc.)?  I'm using a rosewood grand.

-K

>>> Allan Hoeltje <ahoeltje@best.com> 12/20/01 12:43PM >>>
Well, it kinda is on topic for looping, I think, since it adds wonderful
texture to Stick/loop playing.  I have a Model B on my Stick and it works
fairly well.

You will have to experiment on location because there is no one best place
for it.  Of course trying different locations is difficult because you will
need to hold it or clamp it in place to get the best effect.  It seemed to
work best for me on back of the head stock but I did not want a wire hanging
from there.  I tried it in various places on the neck but did not want it
were my hands would run into it.  And if it is too close to the pickups it
will just make the most awful squeal you've ever heard.  So I settled on a
spot just above the belt hook.  There are a few dead spots where some notes
will not sustain but for the most part it works.

I did not want to permanently mount the big magnet so I cut out an 1/8 inch
thick steel plate and mounted that with strong adhesive tape.  This may not
be the best solution because, even though the Model B magnet clings to the
steel plate it will fall off if knocked too hard.  I do not worry about this
since I play sitting and do not perform in public.

-Allan


on 12/20/01 9:10 AM, KEVIN SIMONSON at RITX075@revenue.state.il.us wrote:

> Greetings all.
> 
> Apologies for non-loop bandwidth consumption.  I'm interested in corresponding
> with anyone who has mounted a Sustainiac Model B on a Chapman Stick.  I'm
> particularly interested in transducer mounting locations.



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 20 15:11:54 2001
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: just john <just-john@just-john.com>
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 OT:CD-promo)
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>Rich wrote:
>
>>and i already had a hammered dulcimer, which covered me in
>>the 'odd instrument i need to apply much more time than i have to
>>master in any sort of reasonable manner' department.
>
>
>. . . that's the story of my life!  ;-)  Except that all my instruments are
>"odd" (by most standards) so I have no "regular" or commonly recognized
>instruments to fall back on.
>
>Someone approached me after a performance once and said "You have really
>weird instruments -- and I don't mean that as an insult!"  I loved it!
>
>Humorously enough, my wife has a hammered dulcimer (which was the cause of
>our meeting in the first place), but I've never really given any time to
>trying to play it.

I actually have a composed piece I could print out some hammered dulcimer
parts for, if your wife and Rich feel like getting together to practice.
(There are other parts, for trombone and oboe, that you might play.)  (The
piece is "DeChonka," at my various mp3 sites.)

And Rich's original "odd instrument" comment made me think of two expensive
things I've always been tempted to buy but would probably enjoy for only
about half an hour:  A pedal steel guitar (but think of the looping
possibilities!) and bagpipes.
---
* just-john@just-john.com  http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml *

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 20 15:25:03 2001
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 11:58:45 -0800
Subject: Re: Slightly OT:  Sustainiac Model B and Chapman Stick
From: Allan Hoeltje <ahoeltje@best.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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Oh, my, god.  YOU HAVE TONY LEVIN'S STICK?!?  Or did you just get him to
sign yours?  Mine is a 12 string mohogany with no signatures.

-Allan


on 12/20/01 11:01 AM, KEVIN SIMONSON at RITX075@revenue.state.il.us wrote:

> I've experimented with a few locations (just holding the transducer) and i
> haven't been impressed by the response.  I'm going to attempt to mount the
> unit parallel to the "downward" edge of the back of the headstock.  I can't
> place it between the tuning machines because Tony Levin's signature is there
> :).
> 
> If I may ask, what model of stick do you have (wood vs. poly, grand vs. 10,
> etc.)?  I'm using a rosewood grand.
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 20 15:40:23 2001
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Subject: Re: Slightly OT:  Sustainiac Model B and Chapman Stick
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 21:05:37 +0100
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Hi,

I've played with a (custommade?) unit from Sustainiac called the Sustainman
for the last 3 years on my Grand Stick: works FAB!!!

My father made a clamp that hold the pickup upside down over the string: the
only downside is you loose the last 4 frets, because the Sustainiac-pickup
needs to be 80 mm away from the Stick-pickup. But other than that: I
couldn't play Stick without it (well.....).

Feel free to listen to some samples on my site taken from the CD that will
be released next month. That's just Looped Stick (with some extra Tibetan
bowls thrown in for fun).

Peace,

Remco

www.editionblue.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 20 15:47:20 2001
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just john wrote:

> ...snip...
>
> And Rich's original "odd instrument" comment made me think of two expensive
> things I've always been tempted to buy but would probably enjoy for only
> about half an hour:  A pedal steel guitar (but think of the looping
> possibilities!) and bagpipes.
> ---
> * just-john@just-john.com  http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml *

curious why just 1/2 hour? a pedal steel's been long on my wish list too! but
sorry, not bagpipes...at least not yet :-)

lance g.




From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 20 16:28:30 2001
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I got the 192Mb card from CDW.com and it seems to work fine

> Qty  Product                                                     CDW Part#   Price
> ---- -------------------------------------------                       ----------      ---------
>         
> 1    SimpleTech 192MB CompactFlash card            242723     129.88
> =====================================================================
> 
>                                                         Sub-Total               $129.88
>                                                         Shipping                $5.49
>                                                         Sales Tax (0%)  $0.00
>                                                         Grand Total             $135.37

              


                                                                                          
                                 
                     ****        What's Charles Up to?      ****
                         http://www.voicenet.com/~ccohen
                  
(on AOL messenger as beepsandboops and YAHOO messenger as beepsandboops2)

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 20 17:28:49 2001
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 16:56:27 -0500
From: Dean Stiglitz <deknow@deknow.com>
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 heh,
i'm waiting for ups to deliver a new cloudnine 16/16 hammered dulcimer as i post...it's a present for my gf...really looking forward to it.

deknow

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 20 18:31:33 2001
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--- mr monk <monk@fuse.net> wrote:
> hey there,
> 
> 
>  i just finished mixing a new phil keaggy record that i produced and
> recorded here at my studio. he does use the jamman and i even
> convinced
> gibson (when they were still responding to phone calls....) to send
> him an
> echoplex, but it was too much new technology for him. personally, i
> think if
> he had gotten into it it would have been a powerful tool for him, but
> the
> way he uses a jamman is like no other
Can you elaborate on the unique way that he uses a jamman?
bret

__________________________________________________
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Hi Steuart,

I'd been meaning to thank you for the recommendation since I've put this
preamp into service... Thank you!

I hope you have a good holiday break, too.

All the best,
Eric

--
Eric Leonardson: http://pages.ripco.net/~eleon

Upcoming Performances:

Plasticene's "And So I May Return" at the Viaduct, 3111 N. Western Ave.
Opening February 23, 2002. For more info call (312) 409-0400.


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 20 20:15:29 2001
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 16:46:34 -0800
From: "Jan Pek" <swirlee@angelfire.com>
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hey everyone-

i posted this to the max/msp list but i thought some of you might be interested:

>ive updated the documentation for my multichannel live loop object, fripp~, in max/msp. the new documentation includes an 8 channel looper with independent lengths on each channel, faders, guages, metronome, and synchronization. 

>source code is included.

>here is a link:

http://www.angelfire.com/dc/swirlee/loop.html

best
-yon



Is your boss reading your email? ....Probably
Keep your messages private by using Lycos Mail.
Sign up today at http://mail.lycos.com

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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 21:31:36 -0500
Subject: phil keaggy
From: mr monk <monk@fuse.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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well...in addition to being able to do all the stuff that lots of guitarists
aspire to... making really cool rhythm loops and playing mindbending
masterpieces over top of them... he will play a longish (20 seconds?)
classical guitar line BACKWARDS so that when he flips it over it has a
mellotron meets hendrix sound and will layer two or three parts on  top of
it... and he's improvising it all! and he'll do it in an unfamiliar open
tuning... i guess it's not his use of the jamman that is so incredible, but
his ability to seemlessly integrate it his deep musicality.


here's an anecdote. i was backstage and he was absent-mindedly playing what
i thought might be a variation on an edvard grieg piece.  he's going to town
and folks are filtering in and out of the room and he's continuing to play
the same piece , but expanding on it... every now and then he'll slow down
just slightly and re-tune one of the strings up or down a half or whole
step... kind of like adrian legg.. but he's doing it to be able to keep
playing what is in his head.. after a while i say..."phil.. how do you keep
track of what pitch the strings are tuned to?" he kind of "wakes up" from a
slight daze and says "what?... oh i don't."  keep in mind this isn't some
michael hedges piece with lush chords and lots of rhythm. it full on melody
and counterpoint with a third and sometimes fourth voice. it's kind of a
lesser reflection of what i imagine bach or mozart to have been like.


on a good night it's simply beyond comprehension.. on a bad night he's just
amazing.

my little opinion.



monk





on 12/20/01 6:03 PM, Bret at echoplex@yahoo.com wrote:

> 
> --- mr monk <monk@fuse.net> wrote:
>> hey there,
>> 
>> 
>> i just finished mixing a new phil keaggy record that i produced and
>> recorded here at my studio. he does use the jamman and i even
>> convinced
>> gibson (when they were still responding to phone calls....) to send
>> him an
>> echoplex, but it was too much new technology for him. personally, i
>> think if
>> he had gotten into it it would have been a powerful tool for him, but
>> the
>> way he uses a jamman is like no other
> Can you elaborate on the unique way that he uses a jamman?
> bret
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
> 


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From: Nemoguitt@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 00:15:21 EST
Subject: "a few seconds of pleasure, an eternity of pain ".....(sister mary guitaro)
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In a message dated 12/20/01 2:45:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
just-john@just-john.com writes:


> but would probably enjoy for only
> about half an hour:  A pedal steel guitar 

the ultimate "celestial communicator" imho.....i have never played one, but i 
think i could get way more than a half hour of "joy" out of it.....:)m

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 12/20/01 2:45:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, just-john@just-john.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">but would probably enjoy for only<BR>
about half an hour:&nbsp; A pedal steel guitar </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
the ultimate "celestial communicator" imho.....i have never played one, but i think i could get way more than a half hour of "joy" out of it.....:)m</FONT></HTML>

--part1_8b.11140981.29541f69_boundary--

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From: "max valentino" <ekstasis1@hotmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: VIRUS ALERT!
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 05:18:24 
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greetings everyone,  There is yet another virus being passed around for the 
holidays.  I picked it up via an e-mail (I hope not from LD, but who 
knows....)
     I understand this new virus may not be picked up by anti-virus. i found 
it in my computer and deleted it. perhaps you would like to check your 
system. this is how i deleted it.

  1. Go to 'start'-then to find or search'(depending on your computer)


2. In the 'search for files or folders' type in sulfnbk.exe - this is the 
virus

3. In the 'look in' make sure you're searching Drive C.
4. Hit 'search' button (or find)
5. If this file shows up ( it's an ugly blackish icon that will have the 
name 'sulfnbk.exe' ) DO NOT OPEN IT!!!
  6. Right click on the file - go down to delete and left click.

  7. It will ask you if you want to send it to the recycle bin, say yes.

  8. Go to your desktop ( where all your icons are) and double click on the 
recycle bin.

9. Right click on sulfnbk.exe and delete again -or empty the bin.

   If you find it send this email to everyone in your address book, because 
that's how it's transferred.

Max





_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

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In a message dated 12/20/01 3:12:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
crossfate@zonnet.nl writes:


> My father made a clamp that hold the pickup upside down over the string: 

what a cool thing!.....thank GOD everyday for your father.....:)m

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 12/20/01 3:12:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, crossfate@zonnet.nl writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">My father made a clamp that hold the pickup upside down over the string: </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
what a cool thing!.....thank GOD everyday for your father.....:)m</FONT></HTML>

--part1_f7.13a21698.29542021_boundary--

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Sorry about this OT and potentially dumb question but, I found something 
called sulfnbk.exe on my computer but it has a windows icon with 'microsoft 
windows' written underneath...is this supposed to be there or could this be 
what your talking about with a different icon?  thanks,  -Todd

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Sorry about this OT and potentially dumb question but, I found something called sulfnbk.exe on my computer but it has a windows icon with 'microsoft windows' written underneath...is this supposed to be there or could this be what your talking about with a different icon? &nbsp;thanks, &nbsp;-Todd</FONT></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 21 01:13:57 2001
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X-Mailer: Ken's Useful eMail Suite v5.1 
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 00:41:10 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Ken <kenzo@free-music.com>
Subject: Hoax, OT (was: VIRUS ALERT!)
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This is a known hoax.  The presence of that file does not indicate the presence of a virus.

Please search anti-virus sites FIRST before you forward things like this!  And even if you find legit warnings, please reconsider before posting to a mailing list about looping.  It's completely off topic.

- Ken
kenzo@free-music.com

At 05:18 AM 12/21/01 +0000, max valentino wrote:
>greetings everyone,  There is yet another virus being passed around for the holidays.  I picked it up via an e-mail (I hope not from LD, but who knows....)
...
>2. In the 'search for files or folders' type in sulfnbk.exe - this is the virus

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From: "max valentino" <ekstasis1@hotmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: VIRUS ALERT!
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 05:42:00 
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I had the same thing...someone mailed me with the alert...if you check, the 
MS icon looks kinda dark, and well, not at all like "authentic" MS icons....
it is also an application (rec'd via the net)...I deleted it.  And thought 
to pass on the heads up.  You can probably leave it...just don't open it!!
Max


>From: THusken@aol.com
>Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>Subject: Re: VIRUS ALERT!
>Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 00:28:52 EST
>
>Sorry about this OT and potentially dumb question but, I found something
>called sulfnbk.exe on my computer but it has a windows icon with 'microsoft
>windows' written underneath...is this supposed to be there or could this be
>what your talking about with a different icon?  thanks,  -Todd




_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 21 01:17:54 2001
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Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20011220215423.00b6e700@pop.mindspring.com>
X-Files: The truth is out there. 
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 21:55:23 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Sean Echevarria <sean_@mindspring.com>
Subject: NOT (Re: VIRUS ALERT!)
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hoax - not a virus:

http://vil.nai.com/vil/virusSummary.asp?virus_k=99084


At 09:18 PM 12/20/2001, you wrote:
>greetings everyone,  There is yet another virus being passed around for 
>the holidays.  I picked it up via an e-mail (I hope not from LD, but who 
>knows....)
>     I understand this new virus may not be picked up by anti-virus. i 
> found it in my computer and deleted it. perhaps you would like to check 
> your system. this is how i deleted it.
>
>  1. Go to 'start'-then to find or search'(depending on your computer)
>
>
>2. In the 'search for files or folders' type in sulfnbk.exe - this is the 
>virus
>
>3. In the 'look in' make sure you're searching Drive C.
>4. Hit 'search' button (or find)
>5. If this file shows up ( it's an ugly blackish icon that will have the 
>name 'sulfnbk.exe' ) DO NOT OPEN IT!!!
>  6. Right click on the file - go down to delete and left click.
>
>  7. It will ask you if you want to send it to the recycle bin, say yes.
>
>  8. Go to your desktop ( where all your icons are) and double click on 
> the recycle bin.
>
>9. Right click on sulfnbk.exe and delete again -or empty the bin.
>
>   If you find it send this email to everyone in your address book, 
> because that's how it's transferred.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 21 01:21:35 2001
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 00:49:43 EST
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...thanks again for the heads up!

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>...thanks again for the heads up!</FONT></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 21 01:29:32 2001
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From: "Nic Roozeboom" <nicroozeboom@hotmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: VIRUS ALERT! - not
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 21:56:44 -0800
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...all the makings of a hoax. by all appearances, an attempt to get 
recipients to erase a file that's supposed to be there in the first place. 
then, of course, the casual and obligatory prompt to "forward this email to 
everyone you know". caveat emptor.

nic

>   If you find it send this email to everyone in your address book, because
>that's how it's transferred.
>
>Max
>


_________________________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 21 01:42:56 2001
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From: "Dave Hastings" <dhastings@earthlink.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: VIRUS ALERT! (possible hoax)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 22:12:28 -0800
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> From: max valentino [mailto:ekstasis1@hotmail.com]
> Subject: VIRUS ALERT!
>
>
> greetings everyone,  There is yet another virus being passed
> around for the
> holidays.  I picked it up via an e-mail (I hope not from LD, but who
> knows....)
>      I understand this new virus may not be picked up by
> anti-virus. i found
> it in my computer and deleted it. perhaps you would like to check your
> system. this is how i deleted it.
>
> 1. Go to 'start'-then to find or search'(depending on your computer)
>
> 2. In the 'search for files or folders' type in sulfnbk.exe - this is
> the virus

What's your source of information that this is a virus?  The following text
comes from Microsoft's Web Site
(http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q301316)

"Sulfnbk.exe is a Windows utility that is used to restore long file names.
This utility is not required to run Windows, but it is necessary if you need
to restore long files names if they become damaged or corrupted. "

The page also describes how to restore it if it is deleted.

Please note that the above does not imply that there isn't a virus that
infects sulfnbk.exe.  It merely means that the presence of sulfnbk.exe is
not _necessarily_ indicative of a virus.

-daveh
--------------
Dave Hastings
dhastings@earthlink.net
"The trouble with music appreciation in general is that people are
 taught to have too much respect for music; they should be taught to
 love it instead."

 - Igor Stravinsky

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 21 01:43:22 2001
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From: "max valentino" <ekstasis1@hotmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: NOT (Re: VIRUS ALERT!)
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 06:09:02 
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A thousand apologies for this....I guess I was taken in by a cruel hoax too, 
and sorry to use up bandwidth at LD....
>
>hoax - not a virus:
>
geez...and I thought i might be spreading some cyber-plague!

_________________________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 21 01:43:41 2001
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 01:17:43 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: just john <just-john@just-john.com>
Subject: Re: NOT (Re: VIRUS ALERT!)
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>hoax - not a virus:
>
>http://vil.nai.com/vil/virusSummary.asp?virus_k=99084
>


... unless one takes the quite defensible position that Windows ITSELF is a
virus ...
---
* just-john@just-john.com  http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml *

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 21 01:43:59 2001
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 22:10:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Bret <echoplex@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: phil keaggy
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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Thanks mr monk,
I've been a fan of Phil's since the 70's (glass harp..), but not really
familiar with his loop work.  Can you recommend a recording that
features him looping?
bret
--- mr monk <monk@fuse.net> wrote:
> well...in addition to being able to do all the stuff that lots of
> guitarists
> aspire to... making really cool rhythm loops and playing mindbending
> masterpieces over top of them... he will play a longish (20 seconds?)
> classical guitar line BACKWARDS so that when he flips it over it has
> a
> mellotron meets hendrix sound and will layer two or three parts on 
> top of
> it... and he's improvising it all! and he'll do it in an unfamiliar
> open
> tuning... i guess it's not his use of the jamman that is so
> incredible, but
> his ability to seemlessly integrate it his deep musicality.
> 
> 
> here's an anecdote. i was backstage and he was absent-mindedly
> playing what
> i thought might be a variation on an edvard grieg piece.  he's going
> to town
> and folks are filtering in and out of the room and he's continuing to
> play
> the same piece , but expanding on it... every now and then he'll slow
> down
> just slightly and re-tune one of the strings up or down a half or
> whole
> step... kind of like adrian legg.. but he's doing it to be able to
> keep
> playing what is in his head.. after a while i say..."phil.. how do
> you keep
> track of what pitch the strings are tuned to?" he kind of "wakes up"
> from a
> slight daze and says "what?... oh i don't."  keep in mind this isn't
> some
> michael hedges piece with lush chords and lots of rhythm. it full on
> melody
> and counterpoint with a third and sometimes fourth voice. it's kind
> of a
> lesser reflection of what i imagine bach or mozart to have been like.
> 
> 
> on a good night it's simply beyond comprehension.. on a bad night
> he's just
> amazing.
> 
> my little opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> monk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on 12/20/01 6:03 PM, Bret at echoplex@yahoo.com wrote:
> 
> > 
> > --- mr monk <monk@fuse.net> wrote:
> >> hey there,
> >> 
> >> 
> >> i just finished mixing a new phil keaggy record that i produced
> and
> >> recorded here at my studio. he does use the jamman and i even
> >> convinced
> >> gibson (when they were still responding to phone calls....) to
> send
> >> him an
> >> echoplex, but it was too much new technology for him. personally,
> i
> >> think if
> >> he had gotten into it it would have been a powerful tool for him,
> but
> >> the
> >> way he uses a jamman is like no other
> > Can you elaborate on the unique way that he uses a jamman?
> > bret
> > 
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
> > 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 21 01:45:11 2001
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From: "max valentino" <ekstasis1@hotmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: VIRUS ALERT!
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 06:11:33 
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I think I over reacted...the whole deal is a hoax!  Fortuinately that file 
is restorable...
Some folks idea of humour confuses me....I thought I might be guilty of 
spreading some cyber-plague, and was in turn doing the right thing by 
passing on the warning I had rec'd.
Hmmmmm
sorry about any confusion....Max




_________________________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 21 02:28:32 2001
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From: "max valentino" <ekstasis1@hotmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: phil keaggy
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 06:58:03 
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....About 6 months or so ago, I saw Phil Keaggy in concert.  A small, 
intimate setting.  Although I have long recognized and admired his artistry, 
I am not an aficienado.  I went, not to check out a incredible fingerstylist 
(but boy was I impressed!), but to see how another looper worked the craft 
live.
To put it bluntly, I was nothing less than absolutely amazed.  Since I also 
use a JamMan,( love it and will keep using it even after the Repeater gets 
here!), I was especially impressed with his "interaction" with that box.
Throughout the show, I could be heard, whispering under my breath, "How'd he 
do that?" and "Oh, I have got to try that!"
It was incredibly inspiring, motivating, enlightening, entertaining and 
educational.  Ended up buying a couple of his cds that night.... and nicking 
a few of his techniques!
Max


>
>well...in addition to being able to do all the stuff that lots of 
>guitarists
>aspire to... making really cool rhythm loops and playing mindbending
>masterpieces over top of them... he will play a longish (20 seconds?)
>classical guitar line BACKWARDS so that when he flips it over it has a
>mellotron meets hendrix sound and will layer two or three parts on  top of
>it... and he's improvising it all! and he'll do it in an unfamiliar open
>tuning... i guess it's not his use of the jamman that is so incredible, but
>his ability to seemlessly integrate it his deep musicality.
>


_________________________________________________________________
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http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 21 09:23:30 2001
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From: Hedewa7@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 08:52:15 EST
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max,
>To put it bluntly, I was nothing less than absolutely amazed.  
<snip>
>It was incredibly inspiring, motivating, enlightening, entertaining and
>educational.  Ended up buying a couple of his cds that night.... and nicking
>a few of his techniques!
since i don't get out, much, and probably won't have a chance to see phil k. 
perform in the near future ---
maybe you could take a minute to outline what kinds of techniques/interaction 
phil employed that got ya freaking?
best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 21 09:31:16 2001
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Message-ID: <c6.3ce5481.29549a61@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 09:00:01 EST
Subject: Re: "a few seconds of pleasure, an eternity of pain ".....(sister mary guitaro)
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Nemoguitt@aol.com writes:
>the ultimate "celestial communicator" imho.....i have never played one,
>but i 
>think i could get way more than a half hour of "joy" out of it.....:)m

compare that to my 28-year-long (approx 5 on, 5 off) frustration w/the only 
instrument that attempts to bridge the gap between fixing your old chevy, ice 
skating & performing the bach cello suites.....
*-)
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 21 09:48:18 2001
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 09:17:19 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: just john <just-john@just-john.com>
Subject: Re: "a few seconds of pleasure, an eternity of pain ".....(sister
 mary guitaro)
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>Nemoguitt@aol.com writes:
>>the ultimate "celestial communicator" imho.....i have never played one,
>>but i
>>think i could get way more than a half hour of "joy" out of it.....:)m
>
>compare that to my 28-year-long (approx 5 on, 5 off) frustration w/the only
>instrument that attempts to bridge the gap between fixing your old chevy, ice
>skating & performing the bach cello suites.....
>*-)
>dt / splattercell

Details!  Details!

(I think it was "The Pink Floyd Movie" where Gilmour operated some sort of
pedl steel with exactly the same amount of enthusiasm and stage presence as
your average lathe operator.)
---
* just-john@just-john.com  http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml *

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just john <just-john@just-john.com> offers up:



<<<.... unless one takes the quite defensible position that Windows
ITSELF is a
virus ...>>>

It's not a virus...it's a frigging PLAGUE!!!   :D

Can you guess what platform I use???

--
Tonefully yours...

Lee Sebel•Cool Music Gear You Can't Live Without•888-487-2166
       Representing Innovative Instruments of Impeccable Quality
                  2way Messaging : coolmusic@my2way.com
                     >>> Check out my original music at <<<
                                 http://www.mp3.com/voltz


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From: "Tim Goodwin" <deepbass@earthlink.net>
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Subject: RE: VIRUS ALERT!
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 22:08:24 -0800
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PLEASE check the validity of these sorts of things before spreading the real
virus...

http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/sulfnbk.exe.warning.html

**The warning is a HOAX**  Deleting the file will disable your Windows OS
from restoring long file names.

--
Tim



-----Original Message-----
From: max valentino [mailto:ekstasis1@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 5:18 AM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: VIRUS ALERT!


greetings everyone,  There is yet another virus being passed around for the
holidays.  I picked it up via an e-mail (I hope not from LD, but who
knows....)
     I understand this new virus may not be picked up by anti-virus. i found
it in my computer and deleted it. perhaps you would like to check your
system. this is how i deleted it.

  1. Go to 'start'-then to find or search'(depending on your computer)


2. In the 'search for files or folders' type in sulfnbk.exe - this is the
virus

3. In the 'look in' make sure you're searching Drive C.
4. Hit 'search' button (or find)
5. If this file shows up ( it's an ugly blackish icon that will have the
name 'sulfnbk.exe' ) DO NOT OPEN IT!!!
  6. Right click on the file - go down to delete and left click.

  7. It will ask you if you want to send it to the recycle bin, say yes.

  8. Go to your desktop ( where all your icons are) and double click on the
recycle bin.

9. Right click on sulfnbk.exe and delete again -or empty the bin.

   If you find it send this email to everyone in your address book, because
that's how it's transferred.

Max





_________________________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 21 11:03:37 2001
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>From: Hedewa7@aol.com
>>since i don't get out, much, and probably won't have a chance to see phil 
>>k.
>perform in the near future ---
>maybe you could take a minute to outline what kinds of 
>techniques/interaction
>phil employed that got ya freaking?
>best,
>dt / splattercell

Hey dt...
What "got me freakin'" was the way he employed the JamBoy, to both create 
accompaniment and texture simnultaneously.  He seemed to use  the midi-fade 
functions (fading a loop to a vol. and then OD'ing upon it at the new vol. 
and then changing to a new loop...great dynamic shifts from what we know is 
a limited tool). Also, he used the mutes and multiple loop channels in a 
very creative way...not necessarily just for A and B sections of tunes.
Now, this really is not all that breathtaking to EDP or Repeater users, but 
to witness this being done with just an acoustic guitar (albeit in the hands 
of a masterful player) and a JAmMAn...well, it got me thinking'.  And so, I 
began to really explore the fade and mute functions in the the JamMan...as 
well as the backwards stuff (tho I think my DL4 works great for this)...and, 
here's what really got me, using the delay mode for creating evolving loop 
textures with the control of feedback levels.  It was, the Keaggy show, one 
of those moments of epiphany which opened my mind and ears to new 
posibilities of music.
Max




_________________________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 21 11:17:37 2001
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From: Hedewa7@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 10:42:10 EST
Subject: Re: "a few seconds of pleasure, an eternity of pain ".....(sister mary guitaro)
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just-john@just-john.com writes:

>Details!  Details!
tee-hee.....

>(I think it was "The Pink Floyd Movie" where Gilmour operated some sort
>of
>pedl steel with exactly the same amount of enthusiasm and stage presence
>as
>your average lathe operator.)
right; but, that was a lap-steel --- which is not nearly as complex as a 
lathe (nor a pedal-steel)!
*-)
dt / splattercell

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Subject: Re: FIRST LOOPING MEMORIES
From: todd reynolds <toddreynolds@rcn.com>
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You can hear 'beginner mind' on my website.  http://www.toddreynolds.com
and hopefully, ascap is putting out a record that will have a couple of duos
on it.  Should be out in about 3 months... Look forward to sharing it with
you...

Best,

T.



On 12/19/01 10:51 AM, "p koniuto" <taghairm@mindspring.com> wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> [Todd R:]
> 
>> No, not quite yet.  But almost.  A couple of the duo pieces
> 
>> he's written for
>> us come pretty close to sounding like it, though no
>> electronics involved.
>> And of course the duo pieces I write for us do include live
> 
>> looping.   They
>> are not released yet, but if you are interested in hearing
> 
>> some, let me
>> know.
> 
> Love to!  And will they be released?
> 
>> We are beginning a trio next year with David Cossin
>> (www.davidcossin.com),
>> who also loops, where we will all be synced up with Plexes
> 
>> probably,  we'll
>> do sets of improvised and written pieces.  If you're up in
> 
>> boston, we'll for
>> sure do a set or two up there...
> 
> *DO* gig-spam the list as in advance as you can...
> i'll be there.  Sounds like quite a trio!
> 
> -peter
> 
> 
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 21 11:18:30 2001
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max writes:
>What "got me freakin'" was the way he employed the JamBoy, to both create
>accompaniment and texture simnultaneously.  He seemed to use  the midi-fade
>functions (fading a loop to a vol. and then OD'ing upon it at the new vol.
>and then changing to a new loop...great dynamic shifts from what we know
>is a limited tool). 
apparently, not as limited as you'd previously thought, i guess!
*-)

>Also, he used the mutes and multiple loop channels in
>a very creative way...not necessarily just for A and B sections of tunes.
>Now, this really is not all that breathtaking to EDP or Repeater users,
>but to witness this being done with just an acoustic guitar (albeit in the
>hands of a masterful player) and a JAmMAn...well, it got me thinking'.  And 
so,
>I  began to really explore the fade and mute functions in the the JamMan...as
>well as the backwards stuff (tho I think my DL4 works great for this)...and,
>here's what really got me, using the delay mode for creating evolving loop
>textures with the control of feedback levels.  It was, the Keaggy show,
>one  of those moments of epiphany which opened my mind and ears to new 
>posibilities of music.
thanks for the exposition!
best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 21 12:11:04 2001
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Technical difficulties with my computer prevent me from burning a copy of my 
looping show today.  I will be gone about a week, so you can expect me to 
send a copy in a little over a week.
Jon


>From: Hans Lindauer <hans@ernieball.com>
>Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
>To: Rick Walker <GLOBAL@cruzio.com>, Max Valentino <ekstasis1@hotmail.com>, 
>        Loopers Delight <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>,        
>Matthias Grob <matthias@grob.org>, Hans Lindauer <hans@ernieball.com>,      
>   Ted Killian <KILLINFO@aol.com>, Rich Atkison <rich@nuvisionsca.com>,     
>    Steven Rice <srice44@yahoo.com>, Stan Card <stanitarium@earthlink.net>, 
>        Tom Heasley <TomHeasley@aol.com>,        Mark Sottilaro 
><sine@zerocrossing.net>,        Mark Hamburg <mark_hamburg@baymoon.com>,    
>     Miko Biffle <biffoz@pacbell.net>, Richard Zvonar <zvonar@zvonar.com>,  
>       Bill Walker <chillyb@cruzio.com>
>Subject: Central Coast Loop Fest
>Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 17:42:50 -0800
>
>Dear Loopers,
>
>You may have read my e-mail (or will soon, if you get the digest) to the
>booking agent of one of the local bars, which I cc:'d to Looper's
>Delight, trying to get him to let us have the CCLF at SLO Brewing
>Company.  If such is the case, you may have noticed that at the end of
>the message I promised him a demo of the music we will be creating at
>the festival.
>
>So at this time I would like to ask everybody who is still interested in
>participating to either e-mail me a link to your music on-line, or to
>snail-mail me a CD to:
>
>Hans Lindauer
>549 Los Osos Valley Rd.
>Los Osos, CA 93402
>
>Please be aware that I intend to burn this material to CD, but only to
>try to get a [free] venue and/or sponsorships to cover any costs, at
>this time.  MP3-quality tunes should suffice for this purpose, as time
>is of the essence for this phase of the project.  As the event draws
>nearer, I would like to put together a CD-quality disk to distribute to
>radio stations and print media to try to get some free press for the
>event (and for you).  So if you send me a link to your music, please
>also mail me a CD and press packet, if possible.
>
>Matthias Grob has e-mailed me to let me know that he may be in the area
>at the time of the event, and if he can make it he has offered to demo
>the Echoplex Digital Pro with the new Loop 4 software.  This presents
>the idea of a looper's workshop.  It would be nice if others would
>volunteer to demonstrate their looper(s) of choice in a non-performance
>setting.
>
>I'd like to thank everyone who has shown interest - you may notice that
>the participant list has grown since the last time I posted to LD
>concerning the festival.  Thanks especially to Rick Walker for planting
>the seed of this idea.  Here's everybody so far:
>
>Rick Walker
>Miko Biffle
>Max Valentino
>Rich Atkinson
>Ted Killian
>Steven Rice
>Stan Card
>Jon Wagner
>Bill Walker
>Richard Zvonar
>Tom Heasley
>Mark Sottilaro
>Matthias Grob
>Mark Hamburg
>Hans Lindauer
>
>
>-Hans
>


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Subject: Re: phil keaggy
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--- mr monk <monk@fuse.net> wrote:
> well...in addition to being able to do all the stuff that lots of
> guitarists
> aspire to... making really cool rhythm loops and playing mindbending
> masterpieces over top of them... he will play a longish (20 seconds?)
> classical guitar line BACKWARDS so that when he flips it over it has
> a
> mellotron meets hendrix sound and will layer two or three parts on
> top of
> it... and he's improvising it all! and he'll do it in an unfamiliar
> open
> tuning... i guess it's not his use of the jamman that is so
> incredible, but
> his ability to seemlessly integrate it his deep musicality.

what does the rather Majestic Mr Keaggy use for his backwards loops? I thought he was just a JamMan user...?

...and you being a Keaggy fan Ric makes sense of you playing 'Let Everything Else Go' when you were warming up at the LA Loop
fest thingie!! It took me a few minutes to work out what tune it was and where I knew it from. Recently had 'Town to Town' on
in the car (whilst on a two month long trawl through old cassettes looking for lost gems) - some incredible playing and
writing on there...

Looking forward to hearing the album you were working on...

Steve
www.steve-lawson.co.uk


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>what does the rather Majestic Mr Keaggy use for his backwards loops? I 
>thought he was just a JamMan user.
Steve....when I saw him he would use the JamMan in sample mode.  There you 
have the ability to reverse a sample and trigger it either footpedal or by 
an audio threshold trigger. Either fowards or in reverse.  It is only a 
single sample, no overdubs or continuous loop, but at 32 sec. it can be a 
pretty long sample. He just played whilst retriggering the reverse sample.
Seeing him do stuff like that did make me investigate some of the other 
"roles" the JamMan could play (outside of the loop mode).  Using Delay mode 
with (almost) infinite feedback, and routing my bass thru an A/B box, gave 
me a new spin on looping....a continuously evolving delay-line loop. kicking 
in/out the A/B box allowed me to stop adding to the delay and play over it.  
The advantage here is being able to, via midi control, change the feedback 
level, and to have a loop continuously evolve and change over time.
Max

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Hey,

Last night, I noticed my "D" string on my Steinberger bass was very
flat.  I gave it a turn, and didn't hear a difference.  I turned it
again...BOING!  The reason it was going flat was the string saddle had
cracked!  It's not a new Spirit, but an older (bought it used in the
early 90s) model with a body and the DB-Tuner bridge.  Anyone have any
idea where to start looking for that beast?  Thanks,

Mark

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 21 16:54:10 2001
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Subject: Re: OT: N. Cal Steinberger Repair?
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ms,

>Last night, I noticed my "D" string on my Steinberger bass was very
>flat.  I gave it a turn, and didn't hear a difference.  I turned it
>again...BOING!  The reason it was going flat was the string saddle had
>cracked!  It's not a new Spirit, but an older (bought it used in the
>early 90s) model with a body and the DB-Tuner bridge.  Anyone have any
>idea where to start looking for that beast?

steinberger, gibson or musicyo?
i think musicyo controls steinberger parts.
hth.
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 21 18:43:42 2001
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References: <Pine.OSF.4.32.0112172042590.20930-100000@emerald.tufts.edu>
Subject: R: Radio Promo (was: Re: More gratuitous self promotion)
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 00:24:57 +0100
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salve elio sono graziano accinni posso mandarti un pō di materiale vorrei
sapere l'indirizzo dove poterlo spedire grazie
----- Original Message -----
From: Elio DeLuca <elio@telepathyrecords.com>
To: Loopers Delight <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 2:51 AM
Subject: Radio Promo (was: Re: More gratuitous self promotion)


> For future reference, the folks at WMFO-FM in Medford, MA do a solid job
> of promoting new music, and are always up for receiving CD's of stuff.
> The station is at 91.5 FM, and has streaming audio at wmfo.org. It's one
> of the smaller-wattage college stations in the Boston area, but the
> programming is totally freeform (DJ-chosen), and there's wide support for
> the local scene, especially the new and different. I run tech down there
> for on-air bands sometimes, and have worked with them for many years
> producing shows & events. Even used their studios to record, late-night, a
> few times, and quite successfully.
>
> Send CD's to:
>
> Music Director
> WMFO-FM
> P.O. Box 65
> Medford, MA 02155
>
> Always trying to get loopy music on the air....
>
> Elio
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 21 20:28:33 2001
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Hey kids,

My wife (Valerie, on the keyboards), my friend Katrin (DJ/Drummachine), and I
(guitar) played a halloween party and I finally got around to going over the
minidisk and pulling tracks from it.  The first one done is up at

http://www.zerocrossing.net/dogsong.mp3

enjoy.

Mark Sottilaro

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 21 21:38:44 2001
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>
> >Last night, I noticed my "D" string on my Steinberger bass was very
> >flat.  I gave it a turn, and didn't hear a difference.  I turned it
> >again...BOING!  The reason it was going flat was the string saddle had
> >cracked!  It's not a new Spirit, but an older (bought it used in the
> >early 90s) model with a body and the DB-Tuner bridge.  Anyone have any
> >idea where to start looking for that beast?

Saddles here for a DIY job:

http://www.mightymite.com/steinberger.html

though no DB-Tuner parts. They might know where to find them...
Good luck!
Michael

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec 22 00:15:57 2001
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Looping live report from San Diego--
Played last night with my old buddy Tom Cunningham (bluegrass guy--Wayne
Rice's fiddle player) for a Christmas party and not one comment about
"where's the other guitar coming from?"  (Tom is also a fine guitarist but
kept it in the case all night--another indication that everything was under
control).  I don't know if I should be insulted that all my hard work is
being ignored or grateful they don't ask me to "keep it simple stupid" . . .
Anyway, I got the New Year's gig so I will be a bit more abstract and see if
anyone complains--I reckon I really do want trouble but for now, here's to
transparency!
Gary

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec 22 07:00:32 2001
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Subject: Fs: Korg DL8000r AM8000r Reflex Sequential Drumtraks
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Korg AM8000r multi fx $250

Korg DL8000r delay 5 sec stereo, 10 sec mono $250 (on the looper's
delight list of tools)

Lexicon Reflex reverb + some chorus, delay $125

Sequential Circuits Drumtraks
drumtracks with many extra sound chips going into 4 
changeable chip sockets. Later operating sys installed 
allows scaling the tuning of any instrument along a 
midi keyboard up to its 16 steps, also velocity 
response. $300

All excellent condition, no problems.
COD, money order, or paypal if you cover that annoying 3% fee.

Eric Zang
Phoenix, AZ


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec 22 12:30:55 2001
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Subject: Re: phil keaggy
From: mr monk <monk@fuse.net>
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on 12/21/01 1:10 AM, Bret at echoplex@yahoo.com wrote:

> Thanks mr monk,
> I've been a fan of Phil's since the 70's (glass harp..), but not really
> familiar with his loop work.  Can you recommend a recording that
> features him looping?
> bret
  well there are a couple of looping recordings... but none of them capture
10% of what happens in a good live show. the "acoustic sketches"album has
some looping as does "on the fly" ( although.. in my opinion neither are
great records.) if you want to hear some of his great playing check out
"beyond nature" for acoustic music (sans loops) or for electric "rock"
guitar playing i think the "blue" record is pretty cool and there is a
decent cover on there of badfinger's "baby blue" too...

 he is one person who i fear wil never make the great record that's in
him..but here are my favorites . some are somewhat sentimental choices
because i was a young zealous religious freak at the time and the occasional
clunkly lyric didn't bother me then and only amuses me now..


the master and the musician

 what a day

town to town

crimson and blue

sunday's child

beyond nature.



for what it;s worth... by the way i got to jam with glass harp this year!
quite a treat.


peace



monk


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Loop that sound carpet!


Boomerang Phrase Sampler. Like-new, with internal upgrade for extended
recording, over-dubbing, looping. Reverse, 1/2 speed, RCA & 1/4 I/Os,
steel chassis. With manual, and power supply. No trades, $350 shipping
included in the US.

Contact: John Hunter, 804-971-7208
Zip: 22901

TIA,

John Hunter
Black Lotus Sound


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec 22 13:10:09 2001
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Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 12:36:14 -0500
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From: Antony Balcerzak <tekpagan@vex.net>
Subject: Re: Fs: Korg DL8000r AM8000r Reflex Sequential Drumtraks
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Hi I am interested in the Lexicon reflex. Will You ship to Canada?

Regards Tony.

>Korg AM8000r multi fx $250
>
>Korg DL8000r delay 5 sec stereo, 10 sec mono $250 (on the looper's
>delight list of tools)
>
>Lexicon Reflex reverb + some chorus, delay $125
>
>Sequential Circuits Drumtraks
>drumtracks with many extra sound chips going into 4
>changeable chip sockets. Later operating sys installed
>allows scaling the tuning of any instrument along a
>midi keyboard up to its 16 steps, also velocity
>response. $300
>
>All excellent condition, no problems.
>COD, money order, or paypal if you cover that annoying 3% fee.
>
>Eric Zang
>Phoenix, AZ

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec 22 13:49:24 2001
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A very old ad, I'm afraid. Its long gone. Good hunting.

John

Antony Balcerzak wrote:

> Hi I am interested in the Lexicon reflex. Will You ship to Canada?
>
> Regards Tony.
>
> >Korg AM8000r multi fx $250
> >
> >Korg DL8000r delay 5 sec stereo, 10 sec mono $250 (on the looper's
> >delight list of tools)
> >
> >Lexicon Reflex reverb + some chorus, delay $125
> >
> >Sequential Circuits Drumtraks
> >drumtracks with many extra sound chips going into 4
> >changeable chip sockets. Later operating sys installed
> >allows scaling the tuning of any instrument along a
> >midi keyboard up to its 16 steps, also velocity
> >response. $300
> >
> >All excellent condition, no problems.
> >COD, money order, or paypal if you cover that annoying 3% fee.
> >
> >Eric Zang
> >Phoenix, AZ

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec 22 16:12:00 2001
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anything happening with the nyc loopfest - i seem to have fallen out of the 
.... nah, i can't do it  - seriously, wot up with it?  harry

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#000080" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">anything happening with the nyc loopfest - i seem to have fallen out of the .... nah, i can't do it&nbsp; - seriously, wot up with it?&nbsp; harry</FONT></HTML>

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A short follow up to my issue-

It climaxed in the unit shutting down- in addition to the strt screen
repeating ad infinium.

I opened it back up and very carefully loosened the EPROMs a few times and
re-seated them- the problem seems to have been cured- just important to take
care when loosening the chips- they are very tightly seated and it could be
easy to damage the unit during this process- Hopefully this was the culprit-

Cliff

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 23 02:05:54 2001
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Subject: Re: Phil Keaggy -- looping in general
From: Steve Sandberg <stevesandberg@earthlink.net>
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> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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  well there are a couple of looping recordings... but none of them capture
10% of what happens in a good live show.

> he is one person who i fear wil never make the great record that's in
> him..but here are my favorites .

I have been following this Phil Keaggy thread and find these comments
fascinating, because they are pointing to something that I am discovering in
looping.
I've been looping for about a year now, and find that I absolutely love it
at home.  I can get lost in loops, I can play and hit wonderful zones where
I feel that I can go on forever, I sometimes create loops that I can listen
to for a long long time and go to some wonderful emotional places with.
However, sometimes it's just dry -- and not really happening -- and this
seems pretty much out of my control.
And this makes it kind of scary for live performances.  I like the freedom
of looping.  I don't really like planning things in advance -- but it seems
out of my control whether anything is going to work live or not.
Another thing that seems to make things work or not is, the levels of
overdubbed sounds in a loop really contribute to making something ordinary
or magical -- and this seems hard to control, too.
I recently did a half hour of live looped music in Williamsburg accompanying
modern dance.  We recorded two nights of videos -- and the first night
(which, oddly, I thought was the better one) made me cringe.  The second
night was pretty good.
I'm wondering if my looping experience is par for the course, or if there's
something I'm missing -- anyone have any thoughts on this?



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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: Phil Keaggy -- looping in general</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<FONT COLOR=3D"#0000FF"> &nbsp;well there are a couple of looping recordings.=
.. but none of them capture<BR>
10% of what happens in a good live show. <BR>
<BR>
&gt; he is one person who i fear wil never make the great record that's in<=
BR>
&gt; him..but here are my favorites .<BR>
<BR>
</FONT>I have been following this Phil Keaggy thread and find these comment=
s fascinating, because they are pointing to something that I am discovering =
in looping.<BR>
I've been looping for about a year now, and find that I absolutely love it =
at home. &nbsp;I can get lost in loops, I can play and hit wonderful zones w=
here I feel that I can go on forever, I sometimes create loops that I can li=
sten to for a long long time and go to some wonderful emotional places with.=
<BR>
However, sometimes it's just dry -- and not really happening -- and this se=
ems pretty much out of my control.<BR>
And this makes it kind of scary for live performances. &nbsp;I like the fre=
edom of looping. &nbsp;I don't really like planning things in advance -- but=
 it seems out of my control whether anything is going to work live or not.<B=
R>
Another thing that seems to make things work or not is, the levels of overd=
ubbed sounds in a loop really contribute to making something ordinary or mag=
ical -- and this seems hard to control, too.<BR>
I recently did a half hour of live looped music in Williamsburg accompanyin=
g modern dance. &nbsp;We recorded two nights of videos -- and the first nigh=
t (which, oddly, I thought was the better one) made me cringe. &nbsp;The sec=
ond night was pretty good. &nbsp;<BR>
I'm wondering if my looping experience is par for the course, or if there's=
 something I'm missing -- anyone have any thoughts on this?<BR>
<BR>
</BODY>
</HTML>


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Often, if I let a terrible sounding loop run long enough, I find myself 
discerning underlying rhythmic and melodic patterns that eventually sound 
peacefully coherent!   -Todd

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Often, if I let a terrible sounding loop run long enough, I find myself discerning underlying rhythmic and melodic patterns that eventually sound peacefully coherent! &nbsp;&nbsp;-Todd</FONT></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 23 06:36:27 2001
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Subject: ON TOPIC - Was: Re: Phil Keaggy -- looping in general - nothing ventured, nothing expressed
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 06:12:53 -0600
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snips
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Sandberg <stevesandberg@earthlink.net>
>I've been looping for about a year now, and find that I absolutely love it
>at home.  I can get lost in loops, I can play and hit wonderful zones where
>I feel that I can go on forever, I sometimes create loops that I can listen
>to for a long long time and go to some wonderful emotional places with.
>However, sometimes it's just dry -- and not really happening -- and this
>seems pretty much out of my control.
>And this makes it kind of scary for live performances.  I like the freedom
>of looping.  I don't really like planning things in advance -- but it seems
>out of my control whether anything is going to work live or not.
>Another thing that seems to make things work or not is, the levels of
>overdubbed sounds in a loop really contribute to making something ordinary
>or magical -- and this seems hard to control, too.
>I recently did a half hour of live looped music in Williamsburg
accompanying
>modern dance.  We recorded two nights of videos -- and the first night
>(which, oddly, I thought was the better one) made me cringe.  The second
>night was pretty good.
>I'm wondering if my looping experience is par for the course, or if there's
>something I'm missing -- anyone have any thoughts on this?
>
>
GET OUT! Keep doing it. It makes sense because it touches a part of you that
your average self only gets the chance to glimpse into the infinite nothing
(ya lucky stiff!) and let's be honest now. It's scary in an exhilaratingly
scary kind of way. So go and play and record and share it and find the space
where live performance is an extension of your life as much as you let the
loop run it's course through your life. Keep going from home and record and
write around in the pure bliss that can be captured in this way. This moving
canvas is for all of us to use. Throw up some paint, the canvas is moving
again and there is plenty of room for many. So get to it bro!
best regards, Pedro Felix - NYC 2001
Post Script - i'm sleepy many days and nights with music and a hyper-aware
state forces the above good fun!


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 23 13:05:37 2001
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Subject: new guy (hello) ... set up question
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Hello I'm new to all of this and wanted to say hello! Two days ago I received 
my order for a pair of the new Gibson echoplex units, as well as the floor 
pedals to run them... I put a link to loopers delight on my web site, and 
joined this e-group last night I am very curious as to how others set up to 
loop, if you don't mind I would like to start by describing my set up as to 
leave my self vulnerable to criticism and/or suggestion...

Warrior 9 string bass (F#, B, E, A, D, G, C, F, A#) into a Morley "little 
alligator" volume pedal ... after the little alligator, the signal splits by 
way of a Morley ABY splitter... 

The left side which I call the bass effect channel goes through an EBS 
Octabass > EBS BASSiq > Morley pro series II BASS WAH > echoplex > into one 
channel on my Roland VS880 > into one channel of my peavey Kosmos> into one 
channel of my peavey dpc100 > into one peavey 210tx into your ear...

The right side which I call the guitar effect channel goes through a Digitech 
whammy 4 > i send a dry into one channel of another Morley ABY splitter and 
the wet into the other channel, they combine as one and go into a Morley pro 
series distortion/wah/volume pedal > echoplex > into one channel on my Roland 
VS880 > into one channel of my peavey Kosmos> into one channel of my peavey 
dpc100 > into one peavey 210tx into your ear...

Thanks,
Gregory Bruce Campbell
<A HREF="www.kickstartchubby.com">www.kickstartchubby.com</A>

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=1>Hello I'm new to all of this and wanted to say hello! Two days ago I received my order for a pair of the new Gibson echoplex units, as well as the floor pedals to run them... I put a link to loopers delight on my web site, and joined this e-group last night I am very curious as to how others set up to loop, if you don't mind I would like to start by describing my set up as to leave my self vulnerable to criticism and/or suggestion...<BR>
<BR>
Warrior 9 string bass (F#, B, E, A, D, G, C, F, A#) into a Morley "little alligator" volume pedal ... after the little alligator, the signal splits by way of a Morley ABY splitter... <BR>
<BR>
The left side which I call the bass effect channel goes through an EBS Octabass &gt; EBS BASSiq &gt; Morley pro series II BASS WAH &gt; echoplex &gt; into one channel on my Roland VS880 &gt; into one channel of my peavey Kosmos&gt; into one channel of my peavey dpc100 &gt; into one peavey 210tx into your ear...<BR>
<BR>
The right side which I call the guitar effect channel goes through a Digitech whammy 4 &gt; i send a dry into one channel of another Morley ABY splitter and the wet into the other channel, they combine as one and go into a Morley pro series distortion/wah/volume pedal &gt; echoplex &gt; into one channel on my Roland VS880 &gt; into one channel of my peavey Kosmos&gt; into one channel of my peavey dpc100 &gt; into one peavey 210tx into your ear...<BR>
<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>Greg</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B>ory Bruce </FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>Campbell</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
<A HREF="www.kickstartchubby.com">www.kickstartchubby.com</A></FONT></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 23 13:38:12 2001
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Yeah, I agree with Pedro.  Keep on keep'n on.  You probably reach that 
"sweet spot" at home because you're relaxed.  Easy to slip into that zen 
like state.  Live gigs are always a bit of stress out for me, but less 
so after I've been playing them for a while.  I find that I can deal 
with a highly complex setup at home, but am baffled by the same setup 
live.  Both the playing of and set up.  Brain tends to seize up, as does 
gear.  (Like why did my JamMan stop taking MIDI from my Yamaha MIDI 
pedal when I jammed at a friends house last weekend?  Who knows?)

Anyway, the good news is that I find when I keep things simple, and a 
play out more and more, I find that sweet spot comes easier and easier.  
I also find it helps to start off with a cover before you go into 
straight loop improv.  Warms you up a bit.  Good luck.

Mark

On Sunday, December 23, 2001, at 04:12  AM, Pedro Felix wrote:

> snips
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Sandberg <stevesandberg@earthlink.net>
>> I've been looping for about a year now, and find that I absolutely 
>> love it
>> at home.  I can get lost in loops, I can play and hit wonderful zones 
>> where
>> I feel that I can go on forever, I sometimes create loops that I can 
>> listen
>> to for a long long time and go to some wonderful emotional places with.
>> However, sometimes it's just dry -- and not really happening -- and 
>> this
>> seems pretty much out of my control.
>> And this makes it kind of scary for live performances.  I like the 
>> freedom
>> of looping.  I don't really like planning things in advance -- but it 
>> seems
>> out of my control whether anything is going to work live or not.
>> Another thing that seems to make things work or not is, the levels of
>> overdubbed sounds in a loop really contribute to making something 
>> ordinary
>> or magical -- and this seems hard to control, too.
>> I recently did a half hour of live looped music in Williamsburg
> accompanying
>> modern dance.  We recorded two nights of videos -- and the first night
>> (which, oddly, I thought was the better one) made me cringe.  The 
>> second
>> night was pretty good.
>> I'm wondering if my looping experience is par for the course, or if 
>> there's
>> something I'm missing -- anyone have any thoughts on this?
>>
>>
> GET OUT! Keep doing it. It makes sense because it touches a part of you 
> that
> your average self only gets the chance to glimpse into the infinite 
> nothing
> (ya lucky stiff!) and let's be honest now. It's scary in an 
> exhilaratingly
> scary kind of way. So go and play and record and share it and find the 
> space
> where live performance is an extension of your life as much as you let 
> the
> loop run it's course through your life. Keep going from home and record 
> and
> write around in the pure bliss that can be captured in this way. This 
> moving
> canvas is for all of us to use. Throw up some paint, the canvas is 
> moving
> again and there is plenty of room for many. So get to it bro!
> best regards, Pedro Felix - NYC 2001
> Post Script - i'm sleepy many days and nights with music and a 
> hyper-aware
> state forces the above good fun!
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 23 13:50:23 2001
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That sounds as good a set up as any.  You'll probably want to get 
yourself a patch bay at one point, so you can put your effects pre or 
post loop.  I love the fact that the Repeater has an effect loop that 
lets you place things before (gets recorded as part of the loop) or 
after (effects get put on the looped material only)  My only wish was 
for a third option that put the effects loop after everything, so what 
I'm playing and the loop could be effects.  But, how it is now is pretty 
damn good.

Mark Sottilaro

On Sunday, December 23, 2001, at 09:33  AM, KkstrtChby@aol.com wrote:

> Hello I'm new to all of this and wanted to say hello! Two days ago I 
> received my order for a pair of the new Gibson echoplex units, as well 
> as the floor pedals to run them... I put a link to loopers delight on 
> my web site, and joined this e-group last night I am very curious as to 
> how others set up to loop, if you don't mind I would like to start by 
> describing my set up as to leave my self vulnerable to criticism and/or 
> suggestion...
>
> Warrior 9 string bass (F#, B, E, A, D, G, C, F, A#) into a Morley 
> "little alligator" volume pedal ... after the little alligator, the 
> signal splits by way of a Morley ABY splitter...
>
> The left side which I call the bass effect channel goes through an EBS 
> Octabass > EBS BASSiq > Morley pro series II BASS WAH > echoplex > into 
> one channel on my Roland VS880 > into one channel of my peavey Kosmos> 
> into one channel of my peavey dpc100 > into one peavey 210tx into your 
> ear...
>
> The right side which I call the guitar effect channel goes through a 
> Digitech whammy 4 > i send a dry into one channel of another Morley ABY 
> splitter and the wet into the other channel, they combine as one and go 
> into a Morley pro series distortion/wah/volume pedal > echoplex > into 
> one channel on my Roland VS880 > into one channel of my peavey Kosmos> 
> into one channel of my peavey dpc100 > into one peavey 210tx into your 
> ear...
>
> Thanks,
> Gregory Bruce Campbell
> www.kickstartchubby.com
>

--Apple-Mail-2-759430833
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That sounds as good a set up as any.  You'll probably want to get
yourself a patch bay at one point, so you can put your effects pre or
post loop.  I love the fact that the Repeater has an effect loop that
lets you place things before (gets recorded as part of the loop) or
after (effects get put on the looped material only)  My only wish was
for a third option that put the effects loop after everything, so what
I'm playing and the loop could be effects.  But, how it is now is
pretty damn good.


Mark Sottilaro


On Sunday, December 23, 2001, at 09:33  AM, KkstrtChby@aol.com wrote:


<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller><smaller>Hello I'm
new to all of this and wanted to say hello! Two days ago I received my
order for a pair of the new Gibson echoplex units, as well as the
floor pedals to run them... I put a link to loopers delight on my web
site, and joined this e-group last night I am very curious as to how
others set up to loop, if you don't mind I would like to start by
describing my set up as to leave my self vulnerable to criticism
and/or suggestion...


Warrior 9 string bass (F#, B, E, A, D, G, C, F, A#) into a Morley
"little alligator" volume pedal ... after the little alligator, the
signal splits by way of a Morley ABY splitter...


The left side which I call the bass effect channel goes through an EBS
Octabass > EBS BASSiq > Morley pro series II BASS WAH > echoplex >
into one channel on my Roland VS880 > into one channel of my peavey
Kosmos> into one channel of my peavey dpc100 > into one peavey 210tx
into your ear...


The right side which I call the guitar effect channel goes through a
Digitech whammy 4 > i send a dry into one channel of another Morley
ABY splitter and the wet into the other channel, they combine as one
and go into a Morley pro series distortion/wah/volume pedal > echoplex
> into one channel on my Roland VS880 > into one channel of my peavey
Kosmos> into one channel of my peavey dpc100 > into one peavey 210tx
into your ear...


Thanks,

</smaller></smaller><bold><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param><bigger><bigger>Greg</bigger></bigger></color></bold><color><param>0000,0000,0000</param><smaller><smaller>ory
Bruce </smaller></smaller><bold><bigger><bigger>Campbell

</bigger></bigger></bold></color><underline><color><param>1999,1999,FFFF</param><smaller><smaller>www.kickstartchubby.com</smaller></smaller></color></underline></fontfamily>


</excerpt>
--Apple-Mail-2-759430833--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 23 16:54:48 2001
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Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 21:21:18 +0000
Subject: keaggy again... 
From: Steve Lawson <steve@steve-lawson.co.uk>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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>>>the master and the musician

 what a day

town to town

crimson and blue

sunday's child

beyond nature.<<<

that's freaky - with the exception of What a Day (don't have that one), that
would be my Keaggy list as well! (with the same caveat about some of the
lyrics... :o) 

Steve
www.steve-lawson.co.uk 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 23 22:43:30 2001
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Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 22:12:20 EST
Subject: Re: Phil Keaggy -- looping out of control
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In a message dated 12/23/01 1:36:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
stevesandberg@earthlink.net writes:


> but it seems out of my control whether anything is going to work live or 
> not.
> 

steve.....this is the "charm" of live looping.....kismet can take me only so 
far.....turning a poor loop into something interesting can be fun.....i have 
to own my bad music as well as my good.....well, maybe not.....i dont 
remember anymore.....:)m

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 12/23/01 1:36:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, stevesandberg@earthlink.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">but it seems out of my control whether anything is going to work live or not.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
steve.....this is the "charm" of live looping.....kismet can take me only so far.....turning a poor loop into something interesting can be fun.....i have to own my bad music as well as my good.....well, maybe not.....i dont remember anymore.....:)m</FONT></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 23 22:48:51 2001
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Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 22:18:10 EST
Subject: Re: new guy (hello) ... set up question
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In a message dated 12/23/01 12:35:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
KkstrtChby@aol.com writes:


> Hello I'm new to all of this and wanted to say hello! 

greg.....welcome.....you have come to the right place to ask your questions 
but please use a bigger font, i cant afford both glasses and looping 
stuff.....:)m

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 12/23/01 12:35:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, KkstrtChby@aol.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Hello I'm new to all of this and wanted to say hello! </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
greg.....welcome.....you have come to the right place to ask your questions but please use a bigger font, i cant afford both glasses and looping stuff.....:)m</FONT></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 24 08:19:10 2001
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To: <stickwire-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM>, <eub_list@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: musicien chilien
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 09:47:13 -0600
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any musician in France can contact my guitarrist friend at :
gatosepulveda@yahoo.com

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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>any musician in France can contact my guitarrist =
friend at=20
:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>gatosepulveda@yahoo.com</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 24 08:46:33 2001
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Message-ID: <0c4501c18c7d$0d1ba240$0201a8c0@stephen>
From: "Stephen P. Goodman" <spgoodman@earthlight.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <B84BFB4E.4481%steve@steve-lawson.co.uk>
Subject: Christmas Greetings
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 13:15:24 -0000
Organization: EarthLight Productions
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And Felicitations to all!

This is a mere offering of this year's Christmas card this year, at
http://www.earthlight.net/Christmas2001.html - and it carries our warmest
wishes with it.  Also EarthLight Studios is giving forth a new loop each day
until the 27th, at http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - today's is something
one can play continuously throughout.

Best and Greetings,

Stephen & Sarah Goodman


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 24 10:23:21 2001
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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 09:57:33 -0500
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Subject: Opps! Not my sale!
References: <200112241346.IAA08261@hemlock.violacea.com>
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Sorry Guys. Didn't see that this post was from the List. I had the same
gear for sale awhile back and thought it for me.  :-P.
Hey, that stuff might still be for sale after all!

John Hunter
Black Lotus Sound

> Subject: 
>          Re: Fs: Korg DL8000r AM8000r Reflex Sequential Drumtraks
>     Date: 
>          Sat, 22 Dec 2001 12:36:14 -0500
>    From: 
>          Antony Balcerzak <tekpagan@vex.net>
>      To: 
>          Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> 
> 
> 
> Hi I am interested in the Lexicon reflex. Will You ship to Canada?
> 
> Regards Tony.
> 
> >Korg AM8000r multi fx $250
> >
> >Korg DL8000r delay 5 sec stereo, 10 sec mono $250 (on the looper's
> >delight list of tools)
> >
> >Lexicon Reflex reverb + some chorus, delay $125
> >
> >Sequential Circuits Drumtraks
> >drumtracks with many extra sound chips going into 4
> >changeable chip sockets. Later operating sys installed
> >allows scaling the tuning of any instrument along a
> >midi keyboard up to its 16 steps, also velocity
> >response. $300
> >
> >All excellent condition, no problems.
> >COD, money order, or paypal if you cover that annoying 3% fee.
> >
> >Eric Zang
> >Phoenix, AZ
> 
> 
>  Subject: 
>          Re: Fs: Korg DL8000r AM8000r Reflex Sequential Drumtraks
>     Date: 
>          Sat, 22 Dec 2001 13:23:14 -0500
>    From: 
>          John Hunter <lotusart@cstone.net>
>      To: 
>          Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> 
> 
> 
> A very old ad, I'm afraid. Its long gone. Good hunting.
> 
> John
> 
> Antony Balcerzak wrote:
> 
> > Hi I am interested in the Lexicon reflex. Will You ship to Canada?
> >
> > Regards Tony.
> >
> > >Korg AM8000r multi fx $250

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 24 10:41:13 2001
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From: "luca" <lucafeed@tin.it>
To: "Sam Kaluf" <skaluf@tradereps.com>, "Ron Norris" <RNorris@mmd.ucsf.edu>,
        "Rick Walker \(loop.pool\)" <GLOBAL@cruzio.com>,
        "Paul Pokorski" <paulrichard10@attbi.com>,
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        <fireworxusers@yahoogroups.com>,
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        "Dieter Waechter" <waechter.dieter@emu.de>,
        "Deathchicken" <deathchicken@core.com>, <CT-Location@yahoogroups.com>,
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Subject: Christmas
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Messaggio in formato MIME composto da pių parti.

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Dear and warm wishes of a serene and happy Christmas and a great 2002.

Luca & Gio

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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www.unguitar.com
www.la67.com


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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 24 11:18:24 2001
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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 10:47:10 EST
Subject: UK reviews (for LD?)
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I have reviews of the Repeater,
the Line 6 Echo Pro (rack version of DL4)
and Boss RC-20 (looping phrase recorder , 10 x 30s loops)

These are all jpged and zipped  ready to send.

If anyone's desperate for them mail me off list, the whole set's a 
megabyte big.

(Kim?) Would they be useful for the LD site.

andy butler 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 24 11:37:39 2001
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Subject: the extension of the Keaggy thread about looping live... 
From: Steve Lawson <steve@steve-lawson.co.uk>
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>>From: Steve Sandberg <stevesandberg@earthlink.net>
>I've been looping for about a year now, and find that I absolutely love it
>at home.  I can get lost in loops, I can play and hit wonderful zones where
>I feel that I can go on forever, I sometimes create loops that I can listen
>to for a long long time and go to some wonderful emotional places with.
>However, sometimes it's just dry -- and not really happening -- and this
>seems pretty much out of my control.
>And this makes it kind of scary for live performances.  I like the freedom
>of looping.  I don't really like planning things in advance -- but it seems
>out of my control whether anything is going to work live or not.
>Another thing that seems to make things work or not is, the levels of
>overdubbed sounds in a loop really contribute to making something ordinary
>or magical -- and this seems hard to control, too.
>I recently did a half hour of live looped music in Williamsburg
accompanying
>modern dance.  We recorded two nights of videos -- and the first night
>(which, oddly, I thought was the better one) made me cringe.  The second
>night was pretty good.
>I'm wondering if my looping experience is par for the course, or if there's
>something I'm missing -- anyone have any thoughts on this?<<<

Just  to echo (loop? evolve? cross-fade from?) what everyone else has said -
you just got to do it. A few things that helped me early on - the first was
having some gigs booked to think towards - nothing focusses your thought WRT
gigs like actually having gigs on the horizon. It made me do two things -
practice the 'tunes' I'd started to write (basically just cells that were
the basis for further improv, though some have no morphed into actual
compositions - shock!horror! ) and the other was to practice improv - to
develop a level of control and awareness that I could execute the ideas that
were coming to me, and also mould the ideas as they came out of the loops
into the next thing.

I also very quickly realised that in an improv setting there are a few
components that go into making the music what it is - you, your state of
mind, your gear, your history, the audience, your relationsip with them,
your perception of your relationship with them, the venue, background noise
and temparature. when you're playing at home, a lot of that is very
different to when you are doing a gig, so the flow of ideas is modified, and
I find that given favourable conditions, my concentration is working at a
much much higher level in front of an audience. I've got quite good at
allowing an audience to inspire me rather than restrict me, though there
have been occasions when I've censored my own music for being to odd in the
face of a non-plussed audience (one of the perils of doing varied stuff I'm
afraid - if someone books me on the strength of the nice pleasant stuff on
my first solo album, and then gets some more 'noise' oriented stuff, it can
be a little shocking - there were a few people who came to see the solo bass
looping tour that Rick Walker, Michael Manring, Mox Valentino and myself
undertook earlier in the year, having heard my solo stuff before, and were a
bit traumatised by some of the more bizarre improv moments in the
Manring/Walker/Lawson trio stuff... :o)

So say I, get out there and book up some gigs - it'd probably help if you
had some sort of tape of the kind of thing you're doing, just so venue
owners etc. know what they are getting, but if you're willing to play for
free, you may well be able to find coffee shop stuff to get some practice...

have fun - the worst thing that can happen is that you're totally rubbish,
and that's not so bad - you just have another go and hope to get better with
time... :o) 

cheers

Steve 
www.steve-lawson.co.uk 

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----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Lawson <steve@steve-lawson.co.uk>

> A few things that helped me early on - the first was
> having some gigs booked to think towards - nothing focusses your thought
WRT
> gigs like actually having gigs on the horizon

> So say I, get out there and book up some gigs - it'd probably help if you
> had some sort of tape of the kind of thing you're doing, just so venue
> owners etc. know what they are getting, but if you're willing to play for
> free, you may well be able to find coffee shop stuff to get some
practice...

???

Steve Sandberg is a professional musician.

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley




From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 24 13:29:39 2001
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Subject: Request: Purchasing roland mc-303 <$200.
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DEAR LOOPING LIST:
       I am new to the sequencer box arena (ie. roland 3030,505,etc) and I
do not have any hardware for this purpose. I do have many software programs
for the above backing tracks work.

I have located a new condition ROLAND MC-303 groovebox in upstate NY for
less than $200.00 I see them in Musician's friend for $499. Is that a good
deal, less than 200., to get started with seq hardware, or should I look for
other devices that would serve my purposes better.
Just looking for a start up unit to build some tracks with synths and
tapping/string instrument music. I'm on a learning curve and thought it
looked reasonable.

If you could suggest some links or sites to learn about the boxes, I would
appreciate the help.
THANKS
Pete Francz

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Grazie cari! Belli i siti!
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DA ITALO & ANNABELLA


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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 24 14:30:18 2001
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Grazie cari! Belli i siti!
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DA ITALO & ANNABELLA


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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 24 15:44:47 2001
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Good points made by everyone here...  a few additional ideas that come
to my mind:

It's really useful to learn how to "steer" your looping in a particular
direction.  This applies both in general musical terms (i.e. being able
to hear complementary notes/harmonies/rhythms to add to whatever is
already in the loop) and in specific technical terms as well -- the
finer points of the particular gear you're looping with, and what it can
(and can't) do.  

Exploring the deeper technical points of your looper is a good way of
becoming more fluid and authoriative with the unit, and it also can help
steer an improv in a specific direction, by helping you to focus on one
or two particular techniques.  Feedback, loop volume, insertmode=replace
(on an EDP), tempo/pitch change (on a Repeater), multiply, undo... these
are all hugely powerful tools that can turn a ho-hum loop into something
really special (or vica versa!)  

Try practicing by specifically isolating a small number of looping
features, and see how much milage you can squeeze out of them.  If
you're used to using a lot of effects processing in your rig, try
removing everything except the looper and the input instrument, and find
ways of cultivating musical interest without anything else in the signal
chain (this has been a huge help for me personally).

Like Steve, I actually find it easier in some ways to loop in front of a
live audience, or when I'm recording.  Doing it at home on my own time,
without an audience or rolling tape/disk, is more relaxed, but perhaps
for that very reason I have a harder time focusing on the stuff as a
specific musical event right then and there.  Specifically sitting down
and recording what I do as I practice at home is really helpful to me,
because it forces me to think in a very immediate mindset, in terms of
creating a cohesive statement right then and there.  (It's also useful
to be able to listen back after the fact.)

I think a big part of learning how to loop successfully (whether live or
otherwise) involves being open to the idea of NOT necessarily being in
complete control all the time... but rather being open to mistakes and
random musical events, and then cultivating enough technique to be able
to steer those random, serendipitous events into a particular direction.

That said, though, a lot of the "peril" of looping stems from the
fundamental "peril" of improvising, I think.  And as such, there are
always going to be some that don't quite get off the ground.  

I also agree with the general attitude about doing several shows as
practice, and would agree with Steve's idea that a low-key coffeehouse
environment can be a good way to go.  I sympathize with David
Beardsley's comment about Steve Sandburg (or anyone else) being a
professional...  

I guess my answer would be that sometimes it can be in a professional's
interest to forego a bit of payment in the short term, in the interest
of cultivating a solid foundation of experience.  You might think of
potential income lost on doing a free gig as payment for the chance to
do your thing in front of an audience -- one of the very best lessons
you can get when learning how to implement technology into your live
routine.  Doing free shows can be a good way of building up a group of
listeners, and of introducing your music to people who might not take a
chance on seeing it if you're doing a paying gig.  

And there's also the idea that someone shouldn't necessarily expect
payment for a service (i.e. looping) until they've actually got a solid,
professional grasp on that service, and feel confident in being able to
deliver in such a way.  Of course, none of this is a reflection on any
specific people here; I say all of this in a very generalized sense. 
(David, do you have any specific examples you could offer of how to
cultivate paying work in the microtonal performance realm?  That would
probably apply to looping work...)

Anyway...

--Andre LaFosse
http://www.altruistmusic.com

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Subject: Re: NYC Loopfest
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 17:22:48 -0500
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I haven't heard about anything for two months. I=20
was going to wait 'til after New Years and then start=20
asking the same question. I think Tom Ritchford got=20
busy with something else.

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: HarryEsq@aol.com=20
  To: loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2001 3:41 PM
  Subject: NYC Loopfest


  anything happening with the nyc loopfest - i seem to have fallen out =
of the .... nah, i can't do it  - seriously, wot up with it?  harry=20

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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I haven't heard about anything for two =
months. I=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>was going to wait 'til after New Years =
and then=20
start </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>asking the same question. I think Tom =
Ritchford got=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>busy with something else.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>* David Beardsley<BR>* <A=20
href=3D"http://biink.com">http://biink.com</A><BR>* <A=20
href=3D"http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley">http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley</A><=
/FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:HarryEsq@aol.com" =
title=3DHarryEsq@aol.com>HarryEsq@aol.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:loopers-delight@loopers-delight.com"=20
  =
title=3Dloopers-delight@loopers-delight.com>loopers-delight@loopers-delig=
ht.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, December 22, =
2001 3:41=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> NYC Loopfest</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT color=3D#000080=20
  face=3D"Comic Sans MS" lang=3D0 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT">anything =
happening with the=20
  nyc loopfest - i seem to have fallen out of the .... nah, i can't do =
it&nbsp;=20
  - seriously, wot up with it?&nbsp; harry</FONT>=20
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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   Hello and Merry Christmas!
   A _BIG_ thankyou to Andre for his post on "The Perils
   of Live Looping"! This is the kind of reply I was
   hoping for with regards to "The Live Approach".
   Since I'm a newbie, this is exactly the kind of input
   that is helpful; not necessarily technical assistance,
   but conceptual.(much like that old Steve Vai column in
   Guitar Player "Martian Love Secrets")
   I wish that I could express how stoked I am about getting
   into looping. It has given me a reason to be interested
   in playing again.
   Best wishes for the holiday season to you all!
   Sincerely,
   Chris Olden


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 24 18:51:39 2001
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From: Aaron Schindler <aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:the perils of live looping (addition question)
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I have a related question regarding how to "reset" the
audiences expectations. I have only played out a few
times at an open mic night, and my looping went ok (as
far as not making any horrible mistakes) but it didn't
get much of a response besides puzzlement and all
questions after where gear related. So I'm wondering
if any of you set up your performances in some way. -
like a 5 min. solo full of sweep picking just to let
people know you can rock out if you want? ; ) 
Thanks.

Aaron

__________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 24 19:08:08 2001
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> I haven't heard about anything for two months. I 
> was going to wait 'til after New Years and then start 
> asking the same question. I think Tom Ritchford got 
> busy with something else.

Nope, I'm still here.  I had a space supposedly lined up
and after a long delay it fell through...  oh, well.

I am looking at two other places, one of which might
be good, but it'll have to wait till I get back from
Alabama(!) to check it out.

My PA is going to be "on-loan" which means we will
have it available if we need to play some space that
doesn't have any PA.  That is going to widen our
choices considerably.

I'll keep you posted.  Sorry that this has grown
so tiresome.

   /t

-- 

Change returns success
Going and coming without error
Action brings good fortune
Sunset
Sunrise



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 24 19:12:36 2001
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Hi Aaron,

> I have a related question regarding how to "reset" the
> audiences expectations. I have only played out a few
> times at an open mic night, and my looping went ok (as
> far as not making any horrible mistakes) but it didn't
> get much of a response besides puzzlement and all
> questions after where gear related. So I'm wondering
> if any of you set up your performances in some way. -
> like a 5 min. solo full of sweep picking just to let
> people know you can rock out if you want? ; )

Without knowing more about what you specifically played, it's hard for
me personally to answer your question.  But, here are a few things I'd
suggest thinking about:

-- What TYPE of music were you playing?  Ambient soundscapes?  Looped
funk chords with burning solos on top?  Avante-garde noise improvs?  IDM
glitch fests?  

-- Do you think that whatever you were playing would have been musically
noteworthy, or have held up to listening, if there WASN'T a live looping
aspect to it?  In other words, say a blind person was at your open mic
gig and didn't know you were doing your thing in real-time.  Would the
music have been enough, on its own terms, to have warranted a strong
audience reaction?

-- Along the same lines, do you think there was some essence or aspect
to whatever you played that would give the audience something to latch
onto? 

-- One reason I personally have been trying tooth and nail to steer away
from effects-laden, ambient-styled loop work is because I've found that
it hard to capture and hold a live audience with that approach.  Now,
for a lot of ambient musicians, that's exactly the point -- to NOT
necessarily demand their focused listening, and to function as a
background environmental aspect just as much as a foreground element. 
For me personally, though, I want to be able to grab and hold a
listener, and I've found that it's hard to do that with the
ambient/ebowed/droney/rubato/soundscapey angle.

As an aside, and a general request, I would LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE
LOVE LOVE IT to DEATH if there were more specific commentary and
criticism of specific musical works on this list.  It's hard to discuss
this sort of question without hearing the music in question, and I think
talking about specific techniques would help a lot of people start
tapping into the more sophisticated possibilities of their loopers. 
Andre says, "Please post and critique specific musical work on Looper's Delight!"

Hope this helps,

--Andre LaFosse
http://www.altruistmusic.com

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In a message dated 12/24/01 6:21:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com writes:


> I have a related question regarding how to "reset" the
> audiences expectations. 

always go on stage with an LD approved tin foil hat on your head, this 
"resets" everyones expectations including your own.....:)m

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 12/24/01 6:21:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I have a related question regarding how to "reset" the<BR>
audiences expectations. </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
always go on stage with an LD approved tin foil hat on your head, this "resets" everyones expectations including your own.....:)m</FONT></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 24 20:47:27 2001
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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 17:16:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Aaron Schindler <aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: the perils of live looping (addition question)
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snip
> -- What TYPE of music were you playing?  Ambient
> soundscapes? 
> -- One reason I personally have been trying tooth
> and nail to steer away
> from effects-laden, ambient-styled loop work is
> because I've found that
> it hard to capture and hold a live audience with
> that approach. 


good point. I was in the "noise sculpture" mode. i.e.
agressive, textural, "soundscapes". not alot (or
really any) of lead melody for listeners to grab on
to. 
I suppose i could have said - please don't watch me -
go about your business! : ) 

perhaps I'll try a somewhat more traditional songlike
piece next time.

thanks for the input.


__________________________________________________
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Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 24 20:51:40 2001
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From: Aaron Schindler <aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com>
Subject: Ret:hep ear sofhive lop ing (add i tio quest ion)
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should I be wearing pants?

> always go on stage with an LD approved tin foil hat
> on your head, this 
> "resets" everyones expectations including your
> own.....:)m
> 


__________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 24 21:21:24 2001
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Aaron Schindler wrote:
> I was in the "noise sculpture" mode. i.e.
> agressive, textural, "soundscapes". not alot (or
> really any) of lead melody for listeners to grab on
> to.
> I suppose i could have said - please don't watch me -
> go about your business! : )
> 
> perhaps I'll try a somewhat more traditional songlike
> piece next time.

Well, I don't know that you have to have a hooky melody in order for an
audience to dig what you're doing.  There are tons of hip-hop acts,
electronic artists, and DJs who aren't working with any significant
melodic content, and they're able to capture and hold listener's
attention (and I don't just mean on a dancefloor).  There are folks like
Nels Cline who can play very angular, confrontational, noisy stuff and
keep audiences utterly focused.  

And there are also lots of singer/songwriters who perform melodic songs
at open mics who get forgotten by the audience before they've even
finished with the first verse.

So it's a hard thing to quantify in the sense of "Melody=listeners, no
melody=being ignored"...

Miroslav Tadic had a great remark about this a few years ago.  He
basically said that if the performer has a clear idea of what they're
trying to do, and how to go about doing it, then they can play some very
flipped out stuff, and they can bring the audience along with them.  But
if the performer isn't tuned in to what's happening, or can't find a way
to bring the music somewhere, then how is anyone else going to follow
along?  

I guess my feeling is that holding an audience, and creating interest,
is a technique and a skill that almost crosses distinctions of style and
content (or presence of looping, for that matter).  And I think that
ties into my earlier comment about trying to develop the right sorts of
techniques and approaches, and to be facile enough in whatever tools
you're using so that you can capture and hold a listener.  

I don't mean to suggest that what you played at the gig wasn't worth
following along with; these sorts of (rhetorical) questions and issues
are good ones for everyone to be asking themselves from time to time, I think.

Anyway...

--Andre LaFosse
http://www.altruistmusic.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 25 02:34:13 2001
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Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 00:55:45 -0600
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as far as paying/non-paying shows go ...

there are some venues where this is appropriate, and some where it is not.

i generally follow my instincts, but i have _some_ rules (which i do not violate
at all anymore):

1. never play a free show where there is a bar serving liquor. they're making
money wether they say so or not ... if you play there for free, you're only
making it more difficult for yourself down the road.

2. see rule number one if there are any questions. the fact it's an all-ages
punk rock show doesn't matter and you shouldn't be asking yourself this question
again.

it's taken me a few years to figure out what's 'appropriate' and what's not ...
i'm comfortable with my personal definitions now.

the only reason i have the 'rules' is that my girlfriend was telling me about
this awful bar in St Louis called the Creepy Crawl. they have a bar, and a
cover. they generally don't pay the bands because they "have to cover the p.a.
guy". i think that's bullshit and not very Punk Rawk on the part of the bands
that play there. in fact, she's decided not to play there anymore ... which i
fully support.

as far as 'coffeehouse' performances go ... i don't care about payment, because
i do them to shake the rust off, so to speak. however, one coffee shop in Peoria
where i played monthly for a year and a half informed me there would no longer
be payment for services rendered as a matter of policy ONE HOUR BEFORE THE SHOW.
this was after i had set up a drum kit, guitar rig, Hammond organ, two leslies
(which required two 23-mile trips to do), and the PA.

i don't play there anymore.

Eric Williamson
www.suitandtieguy.com

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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
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<P>My plan is to start out with a medicine drum loop, played live by me, add a rattle, then possibly a chant and finally play my flutes on top of that. I also plan to do a three flute thing, using a bass flute, a mid range flute and a high flute. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>I apologize in advance for knowing so little about this wonderful technology.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>I have a good mic, an amp, and a Boss digital delay pedal I use. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Do I need any other equipment besides the Echoplex?</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Does the Echoplex come with the foot pedal?</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Is $800.00 a good price for the Echoplex?</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>In Peace and Harmony,</P>
<DIV></DIV>
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Hi all-=20

Just got a Repeater and the best OD pedal ever- the new Tech 21 Tri-AC- =
I'm a happy man. Right off the bat I can say I will not be selling my =
EDP as a result of buying a Repeater- I can see they really are =
different animals and are currently becoming aquainted in my 3 space =
rack. :) Having the EDP in front of the Repeater is very cool- esp with =
everything synced up midi from a Korg ES-1-=20

My question is in regards to my MOTU 2408 and the Repeater- I can't get =
the S/PDIF to work- an I am wondering if the MOTU will only handle 24bit =
signals on a PC? But then- it doesen't work in stand alone mode either =
so that is probably not it-=20

I have set the clock to the S/PDIF and all I get is noise- the noise =
changes when I start/stop the repeater-=20

If I route the digital signal from the Repeater to my TC M-One and then =
into the 2408 it works fine-=20

Any suggestions/ideas appreciated-=20

Happy holidays-=20

One-Happy-Looper,=20

Cliff



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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4912.300" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi all- </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Just got a Repeater and the best OD =
pedal ever- the=20
new Tech 21 Tri-AC- I'm a happy man. Right off the bat I can say I will =
not be=20
selling my EDP as a result of buying a Repeater- I can see they really =
are=20
different animals and are currently becoming aquainted in my 3 space =
rack. :)=20
Having the EDP in front of the Repeater is very cool- esp with =
everything synced=20
up midi from a Korg ES-1- </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My question is in regards to my MOTU =
2408 and the=20
Repeater- I can't get the S/PDIF to work- an I am wondering if the MOTU =
will=20
only handle 24bit signals on a PC? But then- it doesen't work in stand =
alone=20
mode either so that is probably not it- </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have set the clock to the S/PDIF and =
all I get is=20
noise- the noise changes when I start/stop the repeater- </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If I route the digital signal from the =
Repeater to=20
my TC M-One and then into the 2408 it works fine- </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any suggestions/ideas appreciated- =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Happy holidays- </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>One-Happy-Looper, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cliff</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C18CCF.3638DE20--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 25 02:40:13 2001
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<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P><BR></P>
<DIV>
<P><BR><FONT color=#ff0033>I am so sorry! I sent this to the wrong place the first time.</FONT><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P>Hi All,</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>My name is Blue, I am a Native American SongKeeper. I play native american flute for a living. I am going to buy a Gibson Echoplex very soon and would very much appreciate any and all support in the area of understanding what I need to use this device in performance.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>My plan is to start out with a medicine drum loop, played live by me, add a rattle, then possibly a chant and finally play my flutes on top of that. I also plan to do a three flute thing, using a bass flute, a mid range flute and a high flute. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>I apologize in advance for knowing so little about this wonderful technology.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>I have a good mic, an amp, and a Boss digital delay pedal I use. </P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Do I need any other equipment besides the Echoplex?</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Does the Echoplex come with the foot pedal?</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Is $800.00 a good price for the Echoplex?</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>In Peace and Harmony,</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Blue<BR></P>
<P><BR></P></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag2_etl_EN.asp'>Click Here</a><br></html>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 25 02:40:37 2001
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Subject: Re: the perils of live looping (addition question)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 01:04:05 -0600
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>-- One reason I personally have been trying tooth and nail to steer away
>from effects-laden, ambient-styled loop work is because I've found that
>it hard to capture and hold a live audience with that approach.  Now,
>for a lot of ambient musicians, that's exactly the point -- to NOT
>necessarily demand their focused listening, and to function as a
>background environmental aspect just as much as a foreground element.
>For me personally, though, I want to be able to grab and hold a
>listener, and I've found that it's hard to do that with the
>ambient/ebowed/droney/rubato/soundscapey angle.

this is the reason i only do pure ambient music at punk rawk shows (and
bookstores ... but the only one open to it around here closed a while ago) ...
ambient infiltration of a loud-music event is such contrast that notice is taken
regardless of the performer's intent. i have to explain to people they don't
need to pay attention ... that i'm there to prime them for the next act.

some bands/promoters don't get this idea ... and think playing Mudvayne (yuck!!
i can't believe they're from my hometown) in between sets is a "good idea, not
like yours, suit and tie guy!"

>Andre says, "Please post and critique specific musical work on Looper's
Delight!"

OK. i'll start by saying that a cd i made of your mp3s gets played daily in my
mom's coffee shop, it's in the changer right after Namlook/Schulze's Dark Side
Of The Moog 8 and right before a Jimmy Smith live set from 1958. i find it
pleasant ... more later.

Eric Williamson
www.suitandtieguy.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 25 03:36:13 2001
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Cc: "Jim Coker" <jim@five12.com>
Subject: rig/gig pictures
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 01:58:43 -0600
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i don't know if this is on-or-off-topic, but here are some pics of recent
STG/electro gigs. this is mainly posted for the benefit of those gear-whores who
enjoy gawking at others' rigs.

1. www.suitandtieguy.com
the front page has a photo of me drinking a glass of brandy at a lights-out show
with our projection screen behind me (only a small corner is visible). my
looping/interactive-sequencing rig is to my left, your right. it's lit by
candles.

2. http://www.suitandtieguy.com/sights/eric/stgmfsip1.jpg

this is the front view of the rig with the lights on. i've kind of loosely based
it on Klaus Schulze's set-up ... solo synthesiser (SH-101 on loan till i get my
Prodigy back) on a music stand, Korg Z1 and Juno 106 on a pair of x-stands, and
the Big Rack is to the left on a heavy-duty stand along with an Electribe ER-1,
Roland TR-505, and Analogue Solutions Minimodular.

3. http://www.suitandtieguy.com/sights/eric/stgmfsip2.jpg

here is a shot of the Big Rack. on the left side are the Repeater, RDS-7.6,
RDS-8000, TSR-24, Vortex, MPX-100, and Furman Voltage Regulator. in the middle
is the space for the Mackie 1402 mixer, which i needed to remove for noise
reasons before the show (the screws i used to mount it were too long and actuall
_crossed traces_ on the board, causing a hum and other problems). on the right
side is the Warpfactory, the Filterfactory, a 360 Systems MIDIpatch, and a MOTU
MIDI Express. in front of the Big Rack are the aforementioned drum machines and
Minimodular. behind the Big Rack is the Loreena McKennitt triubute act gracious
enough to loan me her PA for the show. on top of the Big Rack is the STG/tip jar
with my logo on it.

Eric Williamson
www.suitandtieguy.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 25 04:16:18 2001
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To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <20011224232045.70676.qmail@web20001.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re:the perils of live looping (addition question)
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 08:44:10 -0000
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I tend to work out the skeleton of a piece, perhaps a few signposts and a
starting position and improvise from there. Seems to work and saves
embarrasment if you blank in front of the audience.
It works for me! My stuff doesn't tend to have melodies though I may have a
scale or sequence of notes to cling on to.

Merry xmas to all from (rainy) Wales.

Gareth


> I have a related question regarding how to "reset" the
> audiences expectations. I have only played out a few
> times at an open mic night, and my looping went ok (as
> far as not making any horrible mistakes) but it didn't
> get much of a response besides puzzlement and all
> questions after where gear related. So I'm wondering
> if any of you set up your performances in some way. -
> like a 5 min. solo full of sweep picking just to let
> people know you can rock out if you want? ; )
> Thanks.
>
> Aaron
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 25 05:03:11 2001
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: leocavallo <leocavallo@groundloops.com>
Subject: Re: S/PDIF- MOTU- Repeater question
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hi Cliff

if you're 100% sure about the correct clocking of the 2 units (one master, 
the other slave. the MOTU can be set via its PCI324 panel. dunno about the 
Repeater) then contact MOTU for some clarification.
a few MOTU users have had problems with 2408 SPDIF. I had to replace my 
2408 mkII for exactly that problem. the unit was unable to sync digitally 
to most of the devices in my studio, when the older model I owned (2408) 
worked perfectly.
BTW, their support and tech help was great and they were able to solve the 
problem in just a few working days.
hope this helps
ciao
leo



At 23.03 24/12/01 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi all-
>
>Just got a Repeater and the best OD pedal ever- the new Tech 21 Tri-AC- 
>I'm a happy man. Right off the bat I can say I will not be selling my EDP 
>as a result of buying a Repeater- I can see they really are different 
>animals and are currently becoming aquainted in my 3 space rack. :) Having 
>the EDP in front of the Repeater is very cool- esp with everything synced 
>up midi from a Korg ES-1-
>
>My question is in regards to my MOTU 2408 and the Repeater- I can't get 
>the S/PDIF to work- an I am wondering if the MOTU will only handle 24bit 
>signals on a PC? But then- it doesen't work in stand alone mode either so 
>that is probably not it-
>
>I have set the clock to the S/PDIF and all I get is noise- the noise 
>changes when I start/stop the repeater-
>
>If I route the digital signal from the Repeater to my TC M-One and then 
>into the 2408 it works fine-
>
>Any suggestions/ideas appreciated-
>
>Happy holidays-
>
>One-Happy-Looper,
>
>Cliff
>
>


www.groundloops.com

c o o l . s o u n d s  &  s a m p l e . c d s
f r e e . s a m p l e s . a r c h i v e

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 25 06:59:11 2001
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Subject: Re: S/PDIF- MOTU- Repeater question
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Thank you for the information- I will contact MOTU on Wednesday and see what
they say- I am sure I am setting it up correctly- the Repeater has no
adjustments for the digital i/o and I am very familiar with setting up the
PCI-324 panel.
Thanks again.

Cliff

----- Original Message -----
From: "leocavallo" <leocavallo@groundloops.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2001 12:51 AM
Subject: Re: S/PDIF- MOTU- Repeater question


> hi Cliff
>
> if you're 100% sure about the correct clocking of the 2 units (one master,
> the other slave. the MOTU can be set via its PCI324 panel. dunno about the
> Repeater) then contact MOTU for some clarification.
> a few MOTU users have had problems with 2408 SPDIF. I had to replace my
> 2408 mkII for exactly that problem. the unit was unable to sync digitally
> to most of the devices in my studio, when the older model I owned (2408)
> worked perfectly.
> BTW, their support and tech help was great and they were able to solve the
> problem in just a few working days.
> hope this helps
> ciao
> leo
>
>
>
> At 23.03 24/12/01 -0800, you wrote:
> >Hi all-
> >
> >Just got a Repeater and the best OD pedal ever- the new Tech 21 Tri-AC-
> >I'm a happy man. Right off the bat I can say I will not be selling my EDP
> >as a result of buying a Repeater- I can see they really are different
> >animals and are currently becoming aquainted in my 3 space rack. :)
Having
> >the EDP in front of the Repeater is very cool- esp with everything synced
> >up midi from a Korg ES-1-
> >
> >My question is in regards to my MOTU 2408 and the Repeater- I can't get
> >the S/PDIF to work- an I am wondering if the MOTU will only handle 24bit
> >signals on a PC? But then- it doesen't work in stand alone mode either so
> >that is probably not it-
> >
> >I have set the clock to the S/PDIF and all I get is noise- the noise
> >changes when I start/stop the repeater-
> >
> >If I route the digital signal from the Repeater to my TC M-One and then
> >into the 2408 it works fine-
> >
> >Any suggestions/ideas appreciated-
> >
> >Happy holidays-
> >
> >One-Happy-Looper,
> >
> >Cliff
> >
> >
>
>
> www.groundloops.com
>
> c o o l . s o u n d s  &  s a m p l e . c d s
> f r e e . s a m p l e s . a r c h i v e
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 25 08:06:51 2001
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Subject: Re: Total Newbee
From: Per Boysen <per@boysen.se>
To: Loopers <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Message-ID: <B84E2BED.5C11%per@boysen.se>
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> Detta meddelande Šr i MIME-format. PŒ grund av att din e-postlŠsare inte fšrstŒr
detta format, kommer hela eller delar av detta meddelande inte att vara lŠsbart.

--B_3092131997_39166
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Blue,

> Fr=E5n: "blue wolf" <blueman9@hotmail.com>
> Does the Echoplex come with the foot pedal?

The EDP foot pedal is optional, but you should definitely go for it.

> I have a good mic, an amp, and a Boss digital delay pedal I use.
> Do I need any other equipment besides the Echoplex?

Sounds ok to me. As long as you watch out for mic feedback.

But please try not to buy a "bad crystals EDP". This problem has been
reported earlier on this list (check the archives). Myself, I bought a new
EDP not long ago and I cannot use it for concerts because I sometimes have
to flip the power switch on and off for more than one minute before the
machine lights up. Not the best way to enter the stage... ;->

However Gibson has promised to exchange "bad crystals" a.s.a.p. but right
now there seems to be no "ok crystals" around. So you can spare yourself a
lot of problems by simply checking, in the store, that the unit you are
buying is booting up fine. Although I'm reviewing the EDP for a magazine
that will introduce it to lots of young guitar players, Gibson couldn't fin=
d
me fresh crystals.

Regards

Per Boysen

----------------------------------------------------
http://www.boysen.se
per@boysen.se=20
----------------------------------------------------



--B_3092131997_39166
Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: Total Newbee</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<FONT FACE=3D"Verdana">Hi Blue,<BR>
<BR>
&gt; <B>Fr&aring;n: </B>&quot;blue wolf&quot; &lt;blueman9@hotmail.com&gt;<=
BR>
&gt; Does the Echoplex come with the foot pedal?<BR>
<BR>
The EDP foot pedal is optional, but you should definitely go for it. <BR>
<BR>
&gt; I have a good mic, an amp, and a Boss digital delay pedal I use. <BR>
&gt; Do I need any other equipment besides the Echoplex?<BR>
<BR>
Sounds ok to me. As long as you watch out for mic feedback.<BR>
<BR>
But please try not to buy a &quot;bad crystals EDP&quot;. This problem has =
been reported earlier on this list (check the archives). Myself, I bought a =
new EDP not long ago and I cannot use it for concerts because I sometimes ha=
ve to flip the power switch on and off for more than one minute before the m=
achine lights up. Not the best way to enter the stage... ;-&gt; <BR>
<BR>
However Gibson has promised to exchange &quot;bad crystals&quot; a.s.a.p. b=
ut right now there seems to be no &quot;ok crystals&quot; around. So you can=
 spare yourself a lot of problems by simply checking, in the store, that the=
 unit you are buying is booting up fine. Although I'm reviewing the EDP for =
a magazine that will introduce it to lots of young guitar players, Gibson co=
uldn't find me fresh crystals.<BR>
<BR>
Regards<BR>
<BR>
Per Boysen<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------<BR>
http://www.boysen.se<BR>
per@boysen.se <BR>
----------------------------------------------------<BR>
</FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"><BR>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
</BODY>
</HTML>


--B_3092131997_39166--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 25 08:53:28 2001
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im doing another run of these! with the URL in glow-in-the-dark
ink and the high density Aluminum Oxide protective coating.

now taking orders.

Happy Holidays!

-jas
"T-shirt guy"

Nemoguitt@aol.com wrote:

>
> always go on stage with an LD approved tin foil hat on your head, this
> "resets" everyones expectations including your own.....:)m

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 25 09:44:13 2001
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Another couple of factors that might enter into it would be:

1) Swag. Even if you're not getting any of the door, if there's an
opportunity to make your CDs, t-shirts, etc. available for sale to a
crowded room, the gig could end up being (marginally) profitable.

2) Exposure. Consider who's going to be there: if it's a two hour drive to
an empty room on a Tuesday night, it's probably not a good thing. On the
other hand, if you're trying to get some recognition/publicity/contacts, a
non-paid opening set for a well-known act is a positive. There's a good
chance there'll be people in the house who wouldn't have come out to see
you who end up liking you better than the headliner, so NEXT TIME you're in
town, they'll have told their friends. Also 'showcase'-type gigs can garner
press, which can in turn lead to better opportunities.

-t-

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 25 09:51:55 2001
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Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 09:17:31 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Tim Nelson <tnelson@metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: the pears of hive looping (addition question)
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Careful! Speaking of hives, one of my old bands had t-shirts printed with
our logo in glow-in-the-dark ink, and the first night we sold them, about
50 people put them on at the show without washing them first, and then
about half of them developed rashes in the shape of our logo on their
chests! (After laundering, the shirts were safe!) It was kind of funny
afterwards, but when it first happened some of these folks were freaking
(and scratching) a bit!

-t-

At 06:17 AM 12/25/01 -0800, jas wrote:
>im doing another run of these! with the URL in glow-in-the-dark
>ink and the high density Aluminum Oxide protective coating.

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What an interesting and enlightening thread.  Andre, are you always dropping 
pearls of wisdom?
I've got to chime in and second the thoughts on a performer being able to 
lead the audience, provided the performer knows how to do it...i.e. comes 
across with enough confidence and chutzpah to make the audience want to be 
led along. This is regardless of style, technique or chops.  A big part of 
of gig is "smoke and mirrors".
I am lucky enough to do a good number of live, solo loop shows, and one 
thing I tend to practice is ways to engage, and ways to turn a mediocre loop 
into something interesting.  Not practicing tunes, but just improvising 
loops, good and bad, and taking them as far as I can, as if it were a 
performance.  This has saved my butt more than a few times. It also works as 
a good practice for the foot-switch ballet we all seem so susceptible to.
Max

_________________________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 25 10:19:20 2001
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Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 14:46:35 +0000
Subject: live looping/pros etc... 
From: Steve Lawson <steve@steve-lawson.co.uk>
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>>> So say I, get out there and book up some gigs - it'd probably help if you
> had some sort of tape of the kind of thing you're doing, just so venue
> owners etc. know what they are getting, but if you're willing to play for
> free, you may well be able to find coffee shop stuff to get some
practice...

>???

>Steve Sandberg is a professional musician.<<<

>>>I also agree with the general attitude about doing several shows as
practice, and would agree with Steve's idea that a low-key coffeehouse
environment can be a good way to go.  I sympathize with David
Beardsley's comment about Steve Sandburg (or anyone else) being a
professional...<<<

...I had been a professional musician for about 7 years before I started
doing loop gigs, had played to audiences of up to about 6-7,000 all over
Europe with various bands, toured pretty much continuously for three years
etc. etc. 

when it came to doing loop gigs, it was like starting again. I had to
rethink it - it's almost like taking up a new instrument, or even a
different artistic discipline. And the approach changes. Being a pro doesn't
negate the need to get out and play in front of an audience. if you have a
'following' of sorts, that could even make it harder to do, not wanting to
f*** up in front of people who know you as a stunning [insert musical style
or performance mode here]...

No offence or devaluation of Steve's art was intended at all - with
improvised music, it seems to me that a new dynamic appears, and practicing
improvising, particularly as it relates to looping, is a whole different
area...

I'm still quite happy to play for free if the setting gives me a chance to
do something I wouldn't otherwise get to do - I express it by saying that
I'll never play for nothing, but what I get from it (or give to it) won't
neccesarily be financial...

big festive love 

Steve 
www.steve-lawson.co.uk 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 25 11:43:21 2001
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Subject: EFC-7 gibson echoplex foot controller
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i just got the EFC-7 gibson echoplex foot controller, but it didn't seem to 
come with instructions, so if anyone knows how to hook it up,
i'd love to find out.

thanks,

nate

_________________________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 25 12:24:40 2001
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Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 17:52:17 +0100
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mono jack into plex (footswitch)

happy christmas and looping

Claude

nathan overfield wrote:
> 
> i just got the EFC-7 gibson echoplex foot controller, but it didn't seem to
> come with instructions, so if anyone knows how to hook it up,
> i'd love to find out.
> 
> thanks,
> 
> nate
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 25 12:24:50 2001
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Check out <http://www.loopers-delight.com/tools/echoplex/echopedals.html>

At 11:10 AM 12/25/01 -0500, nate wrote:
>i just got the EFC-7 gibson echoplex foot controller, but it didn't seem to 
>come with instructions, so if anyone knows how to hook it up,
>i'd love to find out.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 25 13:15:03 2001
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Subject: Re: the perils of live looping (addition question)
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I usually find that if you can make a brief description of what you're 
going to do before you start playing, it will set the audience at ease.  
I find a lot of people are suspicious of the music being "canned."  
Prerecorded.  Showing them it's all happening live (except for my drum 
machine, if I'm using it) seems to put them at ease.  Not "cheated" as I 
suspect they often feel when confronted with new technology.  "Oh, the 
computer's doing that."  I've also taken mics and microcassette 
recorders and recorded audience sounds, utterances and put them in the 
loop as well.  That also seems to help.  I, for one, love to do open mic 
nights.  It's a great way to shake things up.  The weirder the better.  
It's not like a paying gig where there are expectations, so let go and 
have fun!

Mark Sottilaro

On Monday, December 24, 2001, at 03:20  PM, Aaron Schindler wrote:

> I have a related question regarding how to "reset" the
> audiences expectations. I have only played out a few
> times at an open mic night, and my looping went ok (as
> far as not making any horrible mistakes) but it didn't
> get much of a response besides puzzlement and all
> questions after where gear related. So I'm wondering
> if any of you set up your performances in some way. -
> like a 5 min. solo full of sweep picking just to let
> people know you can rock out if you want? ; )
> Thanks.
>
> Aaron
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
>

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> -- One reason I personally have been trying tooth and nail to steer away
> from effects-laden, ambient-styled loop work is because I've found that
> it hard to capture and hold a live audience with that approach.  Now,
> for a lot of ambient musicians, that's exactly the point -- to NOT
> necessarily demand their focused listening, and to function as a
> background environmental aspect just as much as a foreground element.
> For me personally, though, I want to be able to grab and hold a
> listener, and I've found that it's hard to do that with the
> ambient/ebowed/droney/rubato/soundscapey angle.
>
Exactly Andre!  Expectations are what can get you in trouble.  Playing 
an ambient set and expecting an audience to hang on your every note is 
unfair to the audience.  I for one, like playing 
ambient/bowed/droney/rubato(what the hell is that?)/soundscapey stuff, 
but at things like art openings, or at a cafe where the art or social 
interaction is the focus, not me.

You'll still get that random person at the end that asks about your 
gear, or say, "Do you know the band Can?"

Mark Sottilaro

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Pink Floyd used to have someone handing out tabs of acid at the door of 
their gigs.  How about that for a reset?

Mark (not advocating giving drugs out) Sottilaro

On Monday, December 24, 2001, at 03:41  PM, Nemoguitt@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 12/24/01 6:21:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
> aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com writes:
>
>
> I have a related question regarding how to "reset" the
> audiences expectations.
>
>
>
> always go on stage with an LD approved tin foil hat on your head, this 
> "resets" everyones expectations including your own.....:)m

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Pink Floyd used to have someone handing out tabs of acid at the door
of their gigs.  How about that for a reset?


Mark (not advocating giving drugs out) Sottilaro


On Monday, December 24, 2001, at 03:41  PM, Nemoguitt@aol.com wrote:


<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>In a message dated
12/24/01 6:21:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com
writes:



</smaller></fontfamily>I have a related question regarding how to
"reset" the

audiences expectations.




always go on stage with an LD approved tin foil hat on your head, this
"resets" everyones expectations including your own.....:)m</excerpt>
--Apple-Mail-1-931161310--

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No, unless you really want to give your audience something to grab on to.


On Monday, December 24, 2001, at 05:21  PM, Aaron Schindler wrote:

> should I be wearing pants?
>
>> always go on stage with an LD approved tin foil hat
>> on your head, this
>> "resets" everyones expectations including your
>> own.....:)m
>>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 25 14:11:09 2001
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Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 18:39:33 +0000
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  Hello,
  Thanks for the insights on looping in the live "arena"!
  Since my only experience playing music in front of
  people has been in bands, it's great to read how you
  guys deal with being a solo music performer, as well
  your thoughts on the styles of looping in different
  situations. I'd have to agree that a Fripp-like sound-
  scape would work better at an art gallery than a
  Brotzmann-esque hurricane in a sheet metal factory
  feedback detonation; although, that might go over well
  before a rock/punk show.

  Thanks for the insight you're providing to us newbies
  out here.
  Merry Christmas and Best Wishes for 2002!
  Chris Olden


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

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Subject: Re: payment for service (long? you be the judge)
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>1) Swag. Even if you're not getting any of the door, if there's an
>opportunity to make your CDs, t-shirts, etc. available for sale to a
>crowded room, the gig could end up being (marginally) profitable.

well ... i think that's incredible optimism. very often the reason the
performance is going unpaid is because you're dealing with a crowd that isn't
bringing alot to spend. i would definitely play at a shop that was selling my
CD, however.

the breakpoint for a 'real' gig (for a local unsigned act) and a 'hobby' gig is
one hundred dollars per team-mate. any less and i'd rather be playing for free
at a punk rawk show. i will definitely _never_ play at a bar for less than a
hundred again for the rest of my life. that's like 1970s pay, guys ... if
musician pay were actually following inflation we'd pull down at least a
thousand per gig for a drinking-establishment band. the one hundred dollar
figure keeps us at the poverty line.

>2) Exposure. Consider who's going to be there: if it's a two hour drive to
....
>press, which can in turn lead to better opportunities.

i happen to believe that the benefit of 'exposure' is a myth. that is my
opinion, though ... feel free to feel different. no matter how many people are
there, my rule is still in effect for _me_ ... booze for sale = money exchanged
= money should be in my pocket too.

i have driven 6 hours to play for two people, the promoter and the guy that
cleared the room (that had 50 peeps when he started) in the set previous to mine
( here's his worthless site: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Cafe/8393/ds98.html
... i'm not bitter at all) and got paid 5 dollars. i found that personally more
fulfilling than the last free bar gig i played, where the organist who rented my
rig (whose band we opened for) _broke_a_key_. i have got no work from either of
those gigs and the stories from the Milwaukee experience were more interesting.

'exposure' only works if you're going to be the next Mudvayne and you're willing
to do 'whatever it takes' to get that worthless record deal. but if you're on
that route your best bet is to locate an industry contact to snort coke with
while partying at the local nudie bar. he'll take care of the 'exposure' for you
... even put a crack team of exposure specialists on it. btw, that 'exposure'
will cost you so much that you better sell that debut record _triple_platinum_
or you'll NEVER see past your advance and the label will drop you like a hot
potato after they rape your back catalogue from when you were just a 'local'
band. btw, the triple platinum figure for LD50 is for real. i _almost_ feel
sorry for sPaG, or is that SpAg?

but if your goal is to be an unsigned and modest regional touring unit then
playing showcases and whatnot doesn't really help you. you'll get alot better
results hanging out alot, chatting with people, being instantly recognisable,
and handing out flyers _everywhere_you_go_. basically, you'll get alot further
pounding the pavement by yourself then playing free gigs for a lot of people who
are most likely there to see someone else. people don't come to gigs because
they like the music or the flyer impresses them. they come to gigs because their
friend is, or because they like you on a personal level. love of the music will
soon follow.

these are my feelings.

Eric Williamson
www.suitandtieguy.com

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In a message dated 12/25/01 9:37:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
ekstasis1@hotmail.com writes:


> A big part of 
> of gig is "smoke and mirrors".

please, please, please elaborate.....what do you do to lead the 
audience?.....become more "showmen" like?.....give us some ideas, i really 
need to know!.....i have only played out (solo) about 9 times this past year 
and that being after a long long time of not playing "live" and never 
solo.....i am going to make a larger "effort" to play out more this coming 
year, i would like to get away from the solo thing though, a duet would be 
the ticket (at least someone to hang out with) and if any scoot were made at 
a gig it would be put into a gas pot.....tim was very right about being 
selective with non-paying gigs, pearls before swine an all dat!.....its da 
schleppin i tell ya!.....and it only gets worse.....:))m((: iky moto

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 12/25/01 9:37:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, ekstasis1@hotmail.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">A big part of <BR>
of gig is "smoke and mirrors".</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
please, please, please elaborate.....what do you do to lead the audience?.....become more "showmen" like?.....give us some ideas, i really need to know!.....i have only played out (solo) about 9 times this past year and that being after a long long time of not playing "live" and never solo.....i am going to make a larger "effort" to play out more this coming year, i would like to get away from the solo thing though, a duet would be the ticket (at least someone to hang out with) and if any scoot were made at a gig it would be put into a gas pot.....tim was very right about being selective with non-paying gigs, pearls before swine an all dat!.....its da schleppin i tell ya!.....and it only gets worse.....:))m((: iky moto</FONT></HTML>

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In a message dated 12/25/01 1:41:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
chrisolden@hotmail.com writes:


> Merry Christmas and Best Wishes for 2002!
> 

couldnt of said it better myself!.....:)m

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 12/25/01 1:41:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, chrisolden@hotmail.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Merry Christmas and Best Wishes for 2002!<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
couldnt of said it better myself!.....:)m</FONT></HTML>

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seems fair to me...

bobdog

Mark Sottilaro wrote:

> Pink Floyd used to have someone handing out tabs of acid at the door of their gigs. How about that for a reset?

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Tue Dec 25 22:19:43 2001
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true, it could be scary... a bunch of bald loopers
scratching their heads.  I better not make the
Foil Looper Hats, sorry to those of you who
had their hopes up.

later,
-jas
dimbulb.org

Tim Nelson wrote:

> Careful! Speaking of hives, one of my old bands had t-shirts printed with
> our logo in glow-in-the-dark ink, and the first night we sold them, about
> 50 people put them on at the show without washing them first, and then
> about half of them developed rashes in the shape of our logo on their
> chests! (After laundering, the shirts were safe!) It was kind of funny
> afterwards, but when it first happened some of these folks were freaking
> (and scratching) a bit!
>
> -t-
>
> At 06:17 AM 12/25/01 -0800, jas wrote:
> >im doing another run of these! with the URL in glow-in-the-dark
> >ink and the high density Aluminum Oxide protective coating.

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Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 19:11:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Aaron Schindler <aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com>
Subject: recomendation for newbies
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I've been (mostly lurking) on the list for over a year
and a half, but for some reason it's only been in the
last few weeks that I've clicked on "loop artists of
the world"  on the looper's delight homepage and
listened to the mp3's. I am still in the process of
checking out every looper's stuff. I have been blown
away and inspired by the number of talented people on
this list! I wish I had done it sooner. If you've not
done so, I highly recommend checking it out.

Aaron

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
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Subject: genre ???
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For those of you who place your loops on mp3.com etc... what is your genre of 
preference for your looped material?

Thanks,
Gregory Bruce Campbell
<A HREF="www.kickstartchubby.com">www.kickstartchubby.com</A>

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>For those of you who place your loops on mp3.com etc... what is your genre of preference for your looped material?<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Thanks,<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>Greg</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B>ory Bruce </FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>Campbell</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
<A HREF="www.kickstartchubby.com">www.kickstartchubby.com</A></FONT></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 26 03:44:47 2001
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EDP question-=20

In delay mode I press Overdub to hold the loop- if I then Mute the loop =
the loop fades away- is there a way to avoid this?=20

Thanks-=20

Cliff

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>EDP question- </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In delay mode I press Overdub to hold =
the loop- if=20
I then Mute the loop the loop fades away- is there a way to avoid this?=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks- </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cliff</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 26 04:54:32 2001
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Merry Christmas.  Here's what I got you...

Bill Frisell meets Ornette Coleman in a Cuisinart:
http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/bookworm.mp3

Aphex Twin's secret pygmy rainforest project (and a perennial Kim Flint
lick at the very beginning):
http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/flux.mp3

Ambient looping takes on Glitch-core (and a good fight it is):
http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/gestalt.mp3

A mournful and melodic thing indeed, yes it is:
http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/hushed.mp3

Pop song from mars with hooks to match:
http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/instant.np3

Shouldn't have left that New Age CD out in the sun:
http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/smalldrama.mp3

A meditative twitch:
http://www.altruistmusic.com/soundfiles/spastic.mp3

THIS IS:

-- entirely live, one-take, unedited, no overdubs, blah blah blah...

-- improvised, occasionally with loose parameters (or tight lack of parameters)

-- EDP plus guitar, with only a smidge of reverb on the stereo mix as
far as effects are concerned

-- an attempt at a post-IDM, post-turntablism approach to looping

-- trying to work with looping in a constantly evolving, dynamic,
non-repetitive (!) format which extends from and reacts to my playing,
rather than statically sitting there and, um, looping over and over again

-- the sound of me kicking and screaming against my own reliance on the
ambient looping genre (and, on some of these, the sound of that paradigm
being literally torn apart)

I have no idea what this sounds like anymore, but I hope you enjoy it
(as long as you don't mind strange looks from your neighbors).

--Andre LaFosse
http://www.altruistmusic.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 26 09:02:56 2001
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happy holidays, everyone, and:
welcome back, andré..... i's glad yer back in here.
best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 26 10:15:34 2001
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In a message dated 12/25/01 10:12:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com writes:


> . I am still in the process of
> checking out every looper's stuff. 

dont forget to check out www.loopxchange.com to hear lots-o-loops from many 
LD members.....:)m

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 12/25/01 10:12:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">. I am still in the process of<BR>
checking out every looper's stuff. </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
dont forget to check out www.loopxchange.com to hear lots-o-loops from many LD members.....:)m</FONT></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 26 11:13:43 2001
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Hans, could you please post the following to the list, RE: Phil Keaggy
(I'm getting posts forwarded here, but can't post from this address).

I'm sure that Phil's techniques are fascinating to loopers, and are
suitable for freaking, but I would humbly submit that the thing about
Phil is that he is quite simply, one of the most musical beings ever to
be born of woman.  In my book, easily the equal of either Bach or Mozart
(not a 'lesser' version).

Whether doing one of his solo gigs with the JamMan, or playing his Les
Paul with a band, he is equally freaking to me.  Others have equally
sophisticated (and way 'beyond') looping technique and gear, not to
mention chops, but I'll repeat myself and say that very few musicians
have ever moved me as Phil has.

A couple of anecdotes:  don't know if any are true, but...

1)  Supposedly Hendrix was being interviewed by either Johnny Carson or
Dick Cavett, and responded to a question about his own 'status' by
saying something to the effect of, "I'm not the greatest - Phil Keaggy
is".

2)  An old friend of mine, who grew up a few doors down from Phil in
Youngstown, OH, once told me that Phil, being self-taught, went to a
local teacher who turned him away, saying she couldn't teach him
anything.  Maybe I'm combining two different stories here, but it may
have been for her that he was said to have played Sgt. Pepper's Lonely
Hearts Club Band, the album, from memory, after hearing it for the first
time...

And he does all this without a full set of fingers, btw.

And then there's that voice...never have I witnessed such beautiful,
joyous music making.

I wish it were captured more on his recordings though.  Check out the
cds 'Blue' (the 'secular' version of Crimson and Blue), or his very
first solo album, 'What A Day'.

What a guy!

Tom Heasley

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 26 11:17:38 2001
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Subject: Re: payment for service (long? you be the judge)
From: Travis Hartnett <tiktok@sprintmail.com>
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A common source of friction between musicians and venue owners is that
musicians operate under the assumption that if they show up and make nice
sounds, they should get paid, they've done their part.  Owners tend to take
the position that if the musician can be shown to have increased the
business for the night, then they get paid.  The quality and character of
the sounds produced is often secondary, as long as the bar cash register
keeps ringing.  

Often, these two assumptions go unstated, or at least unelaborated.  The
musician feels he should get paid in at least the same manner as the guy
mopping the floor, i.e. if the the floor is mopped, money is forked over.
The venue owner probably already has a juke box or CD player installed which
keeps most of the customers happy (and drinking) most of the time--why
should he give up some of his hard-earned income to some guy making weird
noises?  Or even normal noises if there's no bump in the sales?

Some owners will be totally up front about this and let you know that your
continued success is dependent upon people showing up to see you AND buying
something while they're there.  If you see your friends coming out to a show
to "support" you, and then drinking water, explain to them that if they're
not spending money they're don't register on the owner's radar.  They're
taking up space for real, paying customers (understand that this is all from
the viewpoint of the business-minded owner).

Many owners will profess their "love of live music" and their "support of
the the arts".  Some of these people are squarely full of shit, some are
sincere, yet somewhat mistaken, and very, very few are totally on the level
with you.  If you find someone like that, stick to them like glue.  Learn to
recognize the first two types (quickly) and adjust your plans and
expectations accordingly.  There's nothing wrong with asking a booking agent
up front what has to happen for the evening to be a success in their eyes.
Don't be shocked or offended if they discuss it purely in terms of
beer/coffee sold.  Fitting art into the business world is tricky business,
and up close bears a striking resemblance to the manufacture of sausages.

And, if you're going to be hard-line/uncompromising/supremely-principled in
what constitutes acceptable pay, be prepared to play in paying venues
somewhat...infrequently.  Taking the attitude that "if beer's being sold
while I'm playing, then I get paid" may bite you in the ass when at the end
of the night the owner comes by and demands his cut of your CD/t-shirt
sales.  After all, if you're using his storefront to promote and sell your
product, why shouldn't he get a cut?  Oh, and you are reporting your sales
tax on that, right?

Despite the grimness of the above, music still finds a way to happen.  Just
be prepared for a few obstacles along the way.

TH



>i happen to believe that the benefit of 'exposure' is a myth. that is my
>opinion, though ... feel free to feel different. no matter how many people are
>there, my rule is still in effect for _me_ ... booze for sale = money exchanged
>= money should be in my pocket too.

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<snip>

A couple of anecdotes:  don't know if any are true, but...

1)  Supposedly Hendrix was being interviewed by either Johnny Carson or
Dick Cavett, and responded to a question about his own 'status' by
saying something to the effect of, "I'm not the greatest - Phil Keaggy
is".

>>I searched the net on this one, having quoted it for years.    Might be
apocryphal.  My quote is, "How does it feel to be the world's greatest
guitarist?",  "I don't know, ask Phil Keaggey."  But the Web quoted Phil as
saying he hasn't had the rumor substantiated.<<

<more snip>

I wish it were captured more on his recordings though.

>>Hopefully the new one will!!
Gary

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	 <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: More on the perils of live looping
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 12:56:06 -0500
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welcome back andre


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<P><FONT SIZE=2>welcome back andre</FONT>
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Subject: RE: the extension of the Keaggy thread about looping live... 
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???

Steve Sandberg is a professional musician.



** last week there was an interesting piece on npr about the pejorative that
is now placed on the word "amateur" and the american preoccupation with
being "professional" and the fact that making money doing one's "art"
somehow confers some sort of validation on artistic endeavour.

also, i've know plenty of musicans who are professional (doing movie
soundtracks, jingles, album work, etc., many days of the week) and play
coffeehouses in order to play "their" music - - music they truly care about.


just some thoughts,

stig


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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>???</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Steve Sandberg is a professional musician.</FONT>
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<BR>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>** last week there was an interesting piece on npr about =
the pejorative that is now placed on the word &quot;amateur&quot; and the a=
merican preoccupation with being &quot;professional&quot; and the fact that=
 making money doing one's &quot;art&quot; somehow confers some sort of vali=
dation on artistic endeavour.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>also, i've know plenty of musicans who are professional (=
doing movie soundtracks, jingles, album work, etc., many days of the week) =
and play coffeehouses in order to play &quot;their&quot; music - - music th=
ey truly care about. </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>just some thoughts,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>stig</FONT>
</P>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 26 14:27:06 2001
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Subject: Re: payment for service (long? you be the judge)
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A more accurate and succinct description of the subject has yet to be 
voiced in this forum.  Good job Travis.  While being a grim picture, I 
suggest that it points to the fact that when we try to play at a bar, 
perhaps we're barking up the wrong tree.  There are alternative places 
to play.  Non profit art spaces, parties, etc.  Why beat your head 
against a wall?  I found out a long time ago that making money part of 
the performance made me A) Sad and B) Poor.  For me, the two are now 
divorced, and have never been more fulfilling.  No reason to get all 
bitter about the way things are, you're energy is better spent playing.

Mark Sottilaro

On Wednesday, December 26, 2001, at 07:42  AM, Travis Hartnett wrote:

> A common source of friction between musicians and venue owners is that
> musicians operate under the assumption that if they show up and make 
> nice
> sounds, they should get paid, they've done their part.  Owners tend to 
> take
> the position that if the musician can be shown to have increased the
> business for the night, then they get paid.  The quality and character 
> of
> the sounds produced is often secondary, as long as the bar cash register
> keeps ringing.
>
> Often, these two assumptions go unstated, or at least unelaborated.  The
> musician feels he should get paid in at least the same manner as the guy
> mopping the floor, i.e. if the the floor is mopped, money is forked 
> over.
> The venue owner probably already has a juke box or CD player installed 
> which
> keeps most of the customers happy (and drinking) most of the time--why
> should he give up some of his hard-earned income to some guy making 
> weird
> noises?  Or even normal noises if there's no bump in the sales?
>
> Some owners will be totally up front about this and let you know that 
> your
> continued success is dependent upon people showing up to see you AND 
> buying
> something while they're there.  If you see your friends coming out to a 
> show
> to "support" you, and then drinking water, explain to them that if 
> they're
> not spending money they're don't register on the owner's radar.  They're
> taking up space for real, paying customers (understand that this is all 
> from
> the viewpoint of the business-minded owner).
>
> Many owners will profess their "love of live music" and their "support 
> of
> the the arts".  Some of these people are squarely full of shit, some are
> sincere, yet somewhat mistaken, and very, very few are totally on the 
> level
> with you.  If you find someone like that, stick to them like glue.  
> Learn to
> recognize the first two types (quickly) and adjust your plans and
> expectations accordingly.  There's nothing wrong with asking a booking 
> agent
> up front what has to happen for the evening to be a success in their 
> eyes.
> Don't be shocked or offended if they discuss it purely in terms of
> beer/coffee sold.  Fitting art into the business world is tricky 
> business,
> and up close bears a striking resemblance to the manufacture of 
> sausages.
>
> And, if you're going to be hard-
> line/uncompromising/supremely-principled in
> what constitutes acceptable pay, be prepared to play in paying venues
> somewhat...infrequently.  Taking the attitude that "if beer's being sold
> while I'm playing, then I get paid" may bite you in the ass when at the 
> end
> of the night the owner comes by and demands his cut of your CD/t-shirt
> sales.  After all, if you're using his storefront to promote and sell 
> your
> product, why shouldn't he get a cut?  Oh, and you are reporting your 
> sales
> tax on that, right?
>
> Despite the grimness of the above, music still finds a way to happen.  
> Just
> be prepared for a few obstacles along the way.
>
> TH
>
>
>
>> i happen to believe that the benefit of 'exposure' is a myth. that is 
>> my
>> opinion, though ... feel free to feel different. no matter how many 
>> people are
>> there, my rule is still in effect for _me_ ... booze for sale = money 
>> exchanged
>> = money should be in my pocket too.
>

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i can't wait to hear your stuff.
i think your instrumentation is well suited for looping.
you definitely want to use a foot controller with the echoplex.
i have seen the edp new for less than $800.
try alto music (www.altomusic.com, i forget the phone number...)

btw, i have nothing but good things to say about edp support...


>
>
> Hi All,
>
> My name is Blue, I am a Native American SongKeeper. I play native american flute for a living. I am going to buy a Gibson Echoplex
very soon and would very much appreciate any and all support in the area of understanding what I need to use this device in
performance.
>
> My plan is to start out with a medicine drum loop, played live by me, add a rattle, then possibly a chant and finally play my
flutes on top of that. I also plan to do a three flute thing, using a bass flute, a mid range flute and a high flute.
>
> I apologize in advance for knowing so little about this wonderful technology.
>
> I have a good mic, an amp, and a Boss digital delay pedal I use.
>
> Do I need any other equipment besides the Echoplex?
>
> Does the Echoplex come with the foot pedal?
>
> Is $800.00 a good price for the Echoplex?
>
> In Peace and Harmony,
>
> Blue
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: Click Here
>
>

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Hey everyone,
 
Thanks for the advice on the DL-4. My wife ended up picking it up for me as
my main X-Mas present.  I've only had a little while to play with it, but
I'm really happy so far.
 
Hope you're all well,
 
Carl Jacobson


-----Original Message-----
From: Legion [mailto:Legion@HelpWantedProductions.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 11:11 AM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Re: Any opinions on Line 6 DL-4
 
I can get a used DL-4 pretty cheap, I haven't tried it out. Anyone here have
an opinion on it?

I got one when they first came out and later traded it for a piece of kit I
really wanted. I'd certainly consider buying another one *especially* if it
were cheap. Here my take: 
The unit is very versatile. It has quite a few useful features and even some
esoteric parameters that make it interesting. As a delay box on it's own
(ie: not compared to anything in particular) it is stellar. The reverse and
digital delays are great fun. The loop thing is not that sophisticated but
works quite well.  If you want to hear it in action I used a DL4 exclusively
with the Little Infinite Frequency Expander instrument on my CD "The
L.I.F.E. Album". (Samples at: www.mp3.com/davidtalento) The growls and pings
and scrapes are all  LIFE into the DL4 and it was flexible enough for me to
use almost all the features and presets on a 60 minute album without
duplicating much. I can't say that about many delays out there. 
Two things that aren't all they are hyped up to be: 
The emulations are cool as delays but IMO they are not *that* useful as
authentic substitutes. In other words don't expect this to be the exact same
thing as a Space echo or tube echoplex. What is it more like is a snapshot
of one taste of those pieces and as such is still fun and useful but it is
NOT the same thing. OTOH, each preset gives you a different flavor of delay
so again, even though it may not be the exact unit it is emulating, it is
cool to have many totally different delays in one box. 
The other thing that was kind of confusing was the whole preset idea. I
never found this useful because you get three (four) presets but there is no
indication of what you're calling up or what the knobs are set for (fair
enough there is no display on the unit). I guess you could look at these as
a "bonus" and call one up when you don't need to tweak anything. I just
found them too confusing to keep track of so I just dialed in something and
then used the unit "live" for that it was great. 
I recall these were selling for around $200 new plus the power supply.
Anything less than that is an OK price. Anything far less ($125ish  or so)
than that falls into the great buy for a good box category. 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
____________________________________________________________________ 
HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.HelpWantedProductions.com
<Http://www.HelpWantedProductions.com>  
"Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..." 
Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and 
info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more. 
  

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hey =
everyone,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks for the advice on the DL-4. =
My wife
ended up picking it up for me as my main X-<span =
class=3DSpellE>Mas</span>
present.<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>&nbsp; </span>I've only had a
little while to play with it, but I'm really happy so =
far.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hope you're all =
well,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>=


<div>

<p class=3DMsoAutoSig><st1:PersonName><font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DTahoma><span
 =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'=
>Carl
 Jacobson</span></font></st1:PersonName><font size=3D1 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'=
><br
style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br =
style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Legion
[mailto:Legion@HelpWantedProductions.com<span class=3DGramE>] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent</span></b></span><b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>:</span></b> Tuesday, December 04, 2001 =
11:11 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
</span></font><st1:PersonName><font
 size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Loopers-Delight@loopers-de=
light.com</span></font></st1:PersonName><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: Any =
opinions on Line
6 DL-4</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I can get a used DL-4 =
pretty cheap,
I haven't tried it out. Anyone here have an opinion on =
it?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

</div>

</blockquote>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
I got one when they first came out and later traded it for a piece of =
kit I
really wanted. I'd certainly consider buying another one *especially* =
if it
were cheap. Here my take: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>The unit is very versatile. It has quite a =
few useful
features and even some esoteric parameters that make it interesting. As =
a delay
box on it's own (ie: not compared to anything in particular) it is =
stellar. The
reverse and digital delays are great fun. The loop thing is not that
sophisticated but works quite well.&nbsp; If you want to hear it in =
action I
used a DL4 exclusively with the Little Infinite Frequency Expander =
instrument
on my CD &quot;The L.I.F.E. Album&quot;. (Samples at: =
www.mp3.com/davidtalento)
The growls and pings and scrapes are all&nbsp; LIFE into the DL4 and it =
was
flexible enough for me to use almost all the features and presets on a =
60
minute album without duplicating much. I can't say that about many =
delays out
there. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Two things that aren't all they are hyped up =
to be: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>The emulations are cool as delays but IMO =
they are not
*that* useful as authentic substitutes. In other words don't expect =
this to be
the exact same thing as a Space echo or tube echoplex. What is it more =
like is
a snapshot of one taste of those pieces and as such is still fun and =
useful but
it is NOT the same thing. OTOH, each preset gives you a different =
flavor of
delay so again, even though it may not be the exact unit it is =
emulating, it is
cool to have many totally different delays in one box. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>The other thing that was kind of confusing =
was the
whole preset idea. I never found this useful because you get three =
(four)
presets but there is no indication of what you're calling up or what =
the knobs
are set for (fair enough there is no display on the unit). I guess you =
could
look at these as a &quot;bonus&quot; and call one up when you don't =
need to
tweak anything. I just found them too confusing to keep track of so I =
just
dialed in something and then used the unit &quot;live&quot; for that it =
was
great. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>I recall these were selling for around $200 =
new plus
the power supply. Anything less than that is an OK price. Anything far =
less
($125ish&nbsp; or so) than that falls into the great buy for a good box
category. <br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>_____________________________________________=
_______________________
<br>
HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - <a =
href=3D"Http://www.HelpWantedProductions.com">Http://www.HelpWantedProdu=
ctions.com</a>
<br>
&quot;Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we =
started...&quot;
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording =
Gallery
with pictures and <br>
info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more. =
<br>
&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 26 16:17:08 2001
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Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 14:46:41 -0600
From: jim palmer <jimp@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: the perils of live looping (addition question)
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
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>...rubato(what the hell is that?)....

you've never heard of mr. rubato?


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 26 16:56:42 2001
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Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 13:22:36 -0800
From: Richard Zvonar <zvonar@zvonar.com>
Subject: RE: the extension of the Keaggy thread about looping live...
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At 1:01 PM -0500 12/26/01, Liebig, Steuart A. wrote:

>** last week there was an interesting piece on npr about the 
>pejorative that is now placed on the word "amateur" and the american 
>preoccupation with being "professional" and the fact that making 
>money doing one's "art" somehow confers some sort of validation on 
>artistic endeavour.

"Amateur" traditionally meant "one who does something for the love of 
it" as opposed to the secular meaning of "professional" as "one who 
does something for gain."

The term "professional" has become so debased that whenever I see a 
product named with the prefix "pro" I automatically assume it is 
inferior.
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

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	 <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: looping in general
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 16:35:33 -0500
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I've been looping for about a year now, and find that I absolutely love it
at home.  I can get lost in loops, I can play and hit wonderful zones where
I feel that I can go on forever, I sometimes create loops that I can listen
to for a long long time and go to some wonderful emotional places with.
However, sometimes it's just dry -- and not really happening -- and this
seems pretty much out of my control.
And this makes it kind of scary for live performances.  I like the freedom
of looping.  I don't really like planning things in advance -- but it seems
out of my control whether anything is going to work live or not. 
  
Another thing that seems to make things work or not is, the levels of
overdubbed sounds in a loop really contribute to making something ordinary
or magical -- and this seems hard to control, too.

** hi,
 
i'm not sure that this is only a looping issue . . . it seems to me it's a
performance issue. in other words, doing an improv set/show is often going
to have the potential pitfalls of dry/less-than-satisfying moments. i
believe this to be the nature of the beast; sometimes it's gonna click,
other times it won't. (i used to feel that 75% success of any given set was
good, now my sights are on 90%  or higher.) 
 
my best advice would be to keep doing it; if you aren't that used to doing
it now, you are developing new creative muscles (so to speak) and will most
likely get better at doing it over time.
 
my last bit of advice would be to do stuff where looping isn't the only
thing you do; be freer with your "program." do what you feel at that moment.
if you feel that you *must* do looping, that may be setting yourself up for
an expectation/limitation that will curtail what you are creating.
 
my 2 cents worth,
 
stig




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<TITLE>Re: Phil Keaggy -- looping in general</TITLE>

<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV>I've been looping for about a year now, and find that I absolutely love 
  it at home. &nbsp;I can get lost in loops, I can play and hit wonderful zones 
  where I feel that I can go on forever, I sometimes create loops that I can 
  listen to for a long long time and go to some wonderful emotional places 
  with.<BR>However, sometimes it's just dry -- and not really happening -- and 
  this seems pretty much out of my control.<BR>And this makes it kind of scary 
  for live performances. &nbsp;I like the freedom of looping. &nbsp;I don't 
  really like planning things in advance -- but it seems out of my control 
  whether anything is going to work live or not.<FONT size=2><FONT 
  color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial><SPAN 
  class=488240921-26122001>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial><SPAN 
  class=488240921-26122001>&nbsp;</SPAN><SPAN 
  class=488240921-26122001>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=488240921-26122001>Another thing that seems to make things 
  work or not is, the levels of overdubbed sounds in a loop really contribute to 
  making something ordinary or magical -- and this seems hard to control, 
  too.<BR></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=488240921-26122001>** 
  hi,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  class=488240921-26122001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=488240921-26122001>i'm 
  not sure that this is only a looping issue . . . it seems to me it's a 
  performance issue. in other words, doing an improv set/show is often going to 
  have the potential pitfalls of dry/less-than-satisfying moments. i believe 
  this to be the nature of the beast; sometimes it's gonna click, other times it 
  won't. (i used to feel that 75% success of any given set was good, now my 
  sights are on 90%&nbsp; or higher.) </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  class=488240921-26122001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=488240921-26122001>my 
  best advice would be to keep doing it; if you aren't that used to doing it 
  now, you are developing new creative muscles (so to speak) and will most 
  likely get better at doing it over time.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=488240921-26122001></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial><SPAN 
  class=488240921-26122001>my last bit of advice would be to do stuff where 
  looping isn't the only thing you do; be freer with your "program." do what you 
  feel at that moment. if you feel that you *must* do looping, that may be 
  setting yourself up for an expectation/limitation that will curtail what you 
  are creating.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial><SPAN 
  class=488240921-26122001></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=488240921-26122001></SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT 
  color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=488240921-26122001>my 2 cents 
  worth,</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial><SPAN 
  class=488240921-26122001></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=488240921-26122001></SPAN><FONT size=2><FONT 
  color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial><SPAN 
  class=488240921-26122001>stig</SPAN><BR></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><CODE><FONT SIZE=3><BR>
<BR>
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"Amateur" traditionally meant "one who does something for the love of 
it" as opposed to the secular meaning of "professional" as "one who 
does something for gain."


** right. since i have a dayjob, i must be an amateur . . . i'm thinking of
having a t-shirt made that so identifies me. 

besides which, how many "professionals" are really doing something that they
feel in their creative hearts to make the $$$? damn few in my estimation.

stig


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<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&quot;Amateur&quot; traditionally meant &quot;one who doe=
s something for the love of </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>it&quot; as opposed to the secular meaning of &quot;prof=
essional&quot; as &quot;one who </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>does something for gain.&quot;</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>** right. since i have a dayjob, i must be an amateur . .=
 . i'm thinking of having a t-shirt made that so identifies me. </FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>besides which, how many &quot;professionals&quot; are rea=
lly doing something that they feel in their creative hearts to make the $$$=
? damn few in my estimation.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>stig</FONT>
</P>

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From: "Rick Walker \(loop.pool\)" <GLOBAL@cruzio.com>
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Subject: welcome back Andre
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 15:25:45 -0800
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Yeah, welcome back Andre.   yours, Rick Walker

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 26 19:27:21 2001
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From: Richard Zvonar <zvonar@zvonar.com>
Subject: Re: pro/amateur
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At 5:05 PM -0500 12/26/01, Liebig, Steuart A. wrote:

>** right. since i have a dayjob, i must be an amateur . . . i'm 
>thinking of having a t-shirt made that so identifies me.
>
>besides which, how many "professionals" are really doing something 
>that they feel in their creative hearts to make the $$$? damn few in 
>my estimation.

It's worth reflecting on the fact that before "profession" came to 
mean "a line of work" it generally described a religious calling. So 
traditionally, a professional was one who had a lofty goal and whose 
work had a spiritual essence.
-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 26 19:48:30 2001
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Subject: Re: the extension of the Keaggy thread about looping live... 
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RE: the extension of the Keaggy thread about looping live...>----- Original
Message -----
>From: Liebig, Steuart A.

>** last week there was an interesting piece on npr about the pejorative
>that is now placed on the word "amateur" and the american preoccupation
>with being "professional" and the fact that making money doing one's "art"
>somehow confers some sort of validation on artistic endeavour.
>also, i've know plenty of musicans who are professional (doing
>movie soundtracks, jingles, album work, etc., many days of the
>week) and play coffeehouses in order to play "their" music - -
>music they truly care about.

I think Steve has the luxury of being able to be creative in his
day job (scoring a Nickleodean show, theatre and other things)
AND to have his own gig. I've heard him at the Knitting Factory, NY
a few times and I know he had a month long gig at the Gugenheim
Museum (not exactly a coffeehouse!) a few years ago.

I know Steve from a Raga class with Michael Harrison (the last piano
tuner for La Monte Young's Well Tuned Piano in the '80's and an amazing
artist in his own right) a few years ago. Steve's a competent musican,
I was impressed with his skill at notating and repeating whatever
Michael dished out. I know I couldn't deal with it.

At the time I didn't know that he had played with David Byrne,
Ruben Blades and others.

So the down homey coments by Steve Lawson aboout making
a demo seem strange, I don't think SL knows where Mr. Sandberg is coming
from.

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 26 20:39:18 2001
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From: "Emile Tobenfeld (a.k.a Dr. T)" <emile@foryourhead.com>
Subject: Video Performance@First Night  @ Hynes Convention Center
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Hi Folks

I'll be doing video performances with Immersion Music Salon as part 
of First Night at the Hynes Convention Center  room Room 112 in the 
Hallway of Hall A.

I'll be performing with a rotating cast including:

Katt Hernandez 	Violin,
Marc Bisson, 	Guitar
Joe Brown
Jason  whose last name and instrument I don't have
Walter Wright	Video
Probably others.

Sets are at 7:15, 8:00, 8:45, 9:30, 10:15

Hope to see some of you there.
-- 

Visit "Before the Fall -- Images of the World Trade Center" at 
http://www.foryourhead.com

"There were so many things there that are not anywhere else in the 
world. There were millions of people, the strange reflective bars of 
the buildings and the shiny and shimmering towers that seemed like a 
fairy tale"   -- David-Michael Cook

		Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D.
Video Producer			Image Processing Specialist
Video for your HEAD!			Boris FX
http://www.foryourhead.com		http://www.borisfx.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 26 21:16:52 2001
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Subject: payment... 
From: Steve Lawson <steve@steve-lawson.co.uk>
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>>>
** last week there was an interesting piece on npr about the pejorative that
is now placed on the word "amateur" and the american preoccupation with
being "professional" and the fact that making money doing one's "art"
somehow confers some sort of validation on artistic endeavour.

also, i've know plenty of musicans who are professional (doing movie
soundtracks, jingles, album work, etc., many days of the week) and play
coffeehouses in order to play "their" music - - music they truly care
about.<<<

...reminds me of seeing Abe Laboriel playing at the Baked Potato, playing
his ass off with a stunning piano trio to a total of 6 people there for the
second set, with three of us being on the guest list - Abe's bar tab was
bigger than the taking on the door, and I don't think he drinks... :o)

He played that set the same way I've seen him play in front of thousands -
with every cell in his body. I took away a lot more from that gig that just
the great music and a fine CD - not to mention the profuse thanks that he
offered to everyone for being there, individually (admittedly, not that
tricky when there are only 6 people there... :o)

...6 people watching Abe Laboriel?????? what on earth is going on with the
world?????? 

Steve 
www.steve-lawson.co.uk 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 26 21:36:05 2001
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To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Looping live, professionalism, etc...
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Let me tiptoe into the fray and offer a couple of ideas...

In my opinion, the most important things to consider here are:

-- What am I trying to do?
-- What is the best way to accomplish that?

All of the peripheral issues that have sprung up from this thread, with
regards to payment, professionalism vs. amaturism, reputation, and so
forth, are worth mulling over, but I actually don't think they have that
much to do with the core issue.  

As far as I can see it, that issue (and the answer to the two questions
posed above) is: 

-- A guy wants to become more proficient at looping in a live context.  
-- Just about every single reply to that question has recommended doing
gigs in order to obtain that end, preferably of the low-key variety so
that the 'research and development' phase can be as low-key and
anxiety-free as possible.

That being the case, I honestly don't think the issue of anyone's
particular background is all that relevant.  What IS relevant is that
specific person finding an approach that will allow them to improve in
the areas they're looking at.  

So, Steve Sandburg's resume is very impressive, but he himself has
professed anxiety about using looping in a live context.  One good
solution to that, as recommended by many folks here, is to get more
practice doing it live.  

Whether that happens at a coffeehouse, a loft space, or the Knitting
Factory is really beside the point, I think, as is whether he needs to
make a demo or can book a gig strictly on the strength of his
reputation.  The principle is basically the same, and that principle is:
people who have done a significant amount of loop gigs recommend doing a
bunch of low-pressure gigs in order to better integrate that technology
into one's natural performance routine.

I honestly think Steve L's advice has the same fundamental merit
regardless of who it's being offered to, especially since Mr. Lawson was
himself a pro with an impressive CV prior to getting into looping, and
has more solo looping gigs under his belt than most people you're likely
to run into.  I didn't see anything demeaning or disrespectful in his
advice, or that of anyone else here, and I certainly hope it isn't
misconstrued in that way.

Learning how to coordinate the mechanics of whatever looping hardware
and/or processing gear you're using really is a whole technique and
skill in itself, especially if you're trying to integrate all of those
things is a seamless, fluid, real-time manner.  It is much like learning
a new instrument.  Or, from a different point of view, think of it as
the looping equivalent of Sonny Rollins practicing on the Brooklyn
Bridge.  

Anyway, enough from me.  Best wishes to everyone...

--Andre LaFosse
http://www.altruistmusic.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 26 21:59:59 2001
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yeah something i forgot to mention is that i don't try to put on my Klaus
Schulze/Robert Fripp tribute act at the local frat bar ... i show up with a funk
band and my Hammond organ.

the gig with Death Squad was an ambient thing. that last unpaid bar gig was with
the funk band. there are examples of both "forks" of my music on the
suitandtieguy.com site.

when i do the electro stuff, the crowd is so small i just invite a party over to
my capacious studio. there are no art galleries or other appropriate venues in
Peoria for this. it's pretty depressing yet so _liberating_ to realise this.

i don't think there's much disagreement though between the posts in this thread.
not in my mind at least.

Eric Williamson
www.suitandtieguy.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Wed Dec 26 23:47:50 2001
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Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 23:17:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Perils of live/The extension of the Keaggy thread
From: Steve Sandberg <stevesandberg@earthlink.net>
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> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--MS_Mac_OE_3092253424_2192227_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Wow, glad to see my questions about live looping/improv have stimulated such
an interesting thread.
I've gotten a lot out of the discussion - most of all the feeling that what
I'm going through is just the nature of the beast, and the encouragement to
keep at it.
As far as the professional/amateur discussion, I try to keep my "beginner's
mind" in music, and try not letting being a "professional" get in the way of
my music-making.  Several years ago I decided to separate my money-making
ventures in music from  my "artistic" ventures, and it's been quite good for
my head.  When I do paid work (these days mostly in TV/film scoring), I
consider I'm doing a service for a client and try to provide them with
something they can use.  I try to be as creative as I can and to have as
much fun with it as I can, but realize that I'm being paid to support the
project.  
This has freed me to get into studying raga, and recently looping, which I
basically do for my own joy (although I can see how the looping will
infiltrate its way into my scoring work).  So I don't care about making
money from live gigs -- very freeing!  Doing "artistic" stuff on my own also
keeps me very good about accepting feedback from clients on projects,
because I don't have much ego about getting anything in particular into any
particular score -- I have another outlet for that.
I love the definition of "amateur" as someone who does art for the love of
it -- I hope I always keep my amateur status. 

--MS_Mac_OE_3092253424_2192227_MIME_Part
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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: Perils of live/The extension of the Keaggy thread</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<FONT SIZE=3D"4">Wow, glad to see my questions about live looping/improv have=
 stimulated such an interesting thread.<BR>
I've gotten a lot out of the discussion - most of all the feeling that what=
 I'm going through is just the nature of the beast, and the encouragement to=
 keep at it.<BR>
As far as the professional/amateur discussion, I try to keep my &quot;begin=
ner's mind&quot; in music, and try not letting being a &quot;professional&qu=
ot; get in the way of my music-making. &nbsp;Several years ago I decided to =
separate my money-making ventures in music from &nbsp;my &quot;artistic&quot=
; ventures, and it's been quite good for my head. &nbsp;When I do paid work =
(these days mostly in TV/film scoring), I consider I'm doing a service for a=
 client and try to provide them with something they can use. &nbsp;I try to =
be as creative as I can and to have as much fun with it as I can, but realiz=
e that I'm being paid to support the project. &nbsp;<BR>
This has freed me to get into studying raga, and recently looping, which I =
basically do for my own joy (although I can see how the looping will infiltr=
ate its way into my scoring work). &nbsp;So I don't care about making money =
from live gigs -- very freeing! &nbsp;Doing &quot;artistic&quot; stuff on my=
 own also keeps me very good about accepting feedback from clients on projec=
ts, because I don't have much ego about getting anything in particular into =
any particular score -- I have another outlet for that.<BR>
I love the definition of &quot;amateur&quot; as someone who does art for th=
e love of it -- I hope I always keep my amateur status.</FONT>
</BODY>
</HTML>


--MS_Mac_OE_3092253424_2192227_MIME_Part--

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Well, here's a chance to cast your vote on the subject--
I got this gig, see, at a local beer/wine pub, seats maybe twenty people if
they love each other, on the basis of an audition I did with acoustic guitar
and vocal augmented by laptop with sequences.  Virtually no looping, just
for a solo on one song and an outro on another. although I did a couple of
songs with just guitar, vocal and harmonica solo.  Then a couple of nights
ago I discover the display on my laptop has become too dim to see, so it
must go back to Hewlett Packard for a week (dude, I shoulda bought a Dell).
Should I drag the desktop (with its horrible CRT glare) to the gig or try to
do it with my EDP?
A mitigating factor is that I invited the talented Mr. Harvey Starr to sit
in on Ztar and he says he's probably gonna do it with me.  Don't you think I
should bite the bullet and do the live thing?  What are they gonna do, FIRE
ME????
Please cast your vote, if you have one, to the list, as someone named Chooky
sent some viral screen saver thing I narrowly avoided, and I have been more
careful about opening my mail.
BTW, the name of the Place is Henifin's Pub, located at 13314-16 Poway Rd.,
Poway, CA  92064, telephone (858) 486-0764, the date is New Year's Eve, I
start at 9 PM and they have a free buffet that starts around 7 and EVERYONE
WHO SHOWS UP IN A LOOPER'S DELIGHT T-SHIRT gets a free beer.  One beer for
everybody.  My final offer.  Unless you wanna sit in, and then you gotta
bring your instrument.
Gary

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 27 02:57:42 2001
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From: Miko Biffle <biffoz@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: More on the perils of live looping
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Hey Andre, 

Glad to have you back as well... Been digging your new offerings!

-Miko

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   Hi Gary,
   Go for the "live thing"! It's New Year's Eve; it's a
   chance to try something new.
   If I didn't live in NorCal, I'd come to check it out.
   Best of Luck, and Best Wishes for 2002!
   Chris Olden


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 27 04:59:17 2001
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Anecdote.

In the late 80's I made quite a lot of effort to find pub gigs for my 
(somewhat bizarre) jazz band.
I remember one long running slot where the manager seemed genuinely taken by 
our music, but always had an eye on how much extra cash we could produce for 
him.
I just turned up at his bar one night, and asked him to book my band, I think 
he was impressed in some way when I said I didn't drink alcohol.
 
He didn't have many customers on a Saturday night, so he asked us to play, 
just to see how things worked out. 
So every Saturday  we would go and play 3 sets and then wait to see if we got 
next week's gig. Ever tried to publicise a gig at one week's notice??
This went on for a couple of months at least, and we even got  paid (probably 
more than we ever earned in terms of increased sales) 

Our manager friend suggested we did a few well known numbers, (instead of our 
own Mingus/Ornette/progressive compositions), we didn't mind this so tried a 
couple of things. Made no difference of course.

Thing was, it just wasn't beer music, not really the average pub jazz kind of 
sound. The manager wasn't unsympathetic, but pointed out that even the few 
people who came to see us didn't really drink much. (unlike the manager 
himself).

Eventually he just stopped booking us,  and the next Saturday he had a full 
pub. 
A month or so later and his pub was again empty on Saturdays.
6 Months later that manager left the pub (popular theory being that his liver 
had given out).

The moral of the story? 
Don't know really, but maybe certain venues aren't about interesting new 
music, even  if we think they could be, or should be.
Our music wasn't all that way out (except to jazz fans), but it didn't have 
that tired old familiarity of the British pub.

So I imagine playing my looped guitar in such a venue 
" do you know any blues "
" can you play Hotel California "
" can you turn down a bit "
or some version of the landlord's classic
" I'm not saying you're a bad band, but you're not what we expected "

andy butler

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 27 06:20:02 2001
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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 11:53:10 +0100
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Andre LaFosse wrote,

> Merry Christmas.  Here's what I got you...
> Bill Frisell meets Ornette Coleman in a Cuisinart

this is the most interesting and entertaining guitar loop stuff I've heard
in a long time. Thanks for posting. Will you do a CD in that style?


= michael peters
= computer graphics + electronic music
= www.mpeters.de/mpeweb

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 27 09:34:45 2001
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I say do it...out on a limb, where the fruit is.

Carl Jacobson
Director of Marketing Communications
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Lehmann [mailto:healthquestrecruiter@earthlink.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 11:21 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: Looper's Poll--Live or Memorex? (also gig spam)

Well, here's a chance to cast your vote on the subject--
I got this gig, see, at a local beer/wine pub, seats maybe twenty people if
they love each other, on the basis of an audition I did with acoustic guitar
and vocal augmented by laptop with sequences.  Virtually no looping, just
for a solo on one song and an outro on another. although I did a couple of
songs with just guitar, vocal and harmonica solo.  Then a couple of nights
ago I discover the display on my laptop has become too dim to see, so it
must go back to Hewlett Packard for a week (dude, I shoulda bought a Dell).
Should I drag the desktop (with its horrible CRT glare) to the gig or try to
do it with my EDP?
A mitigating factor is that I invited the talented Mr. Harvey Starr to sit
in on Ztar and he says he's probably gonna do it with me.  Don't you think I
should bite the bullet and do the live thing?  What are they gonna do, FIRE
ME????
Please cast your vote, if you have one, to the list, as someone named Chooky
sent some viral screen saver thing I narrowly avoided, and I have been more
careful about opening my mail.
BTW, the name of the Place is Henifin's Pub, located at 13314-16 Poway Rd.,
Poway, CA  92064, telephone (858) 486-0764, the date is New Year's Eve, I
start at 9 PM and they have a free buffet that starts around 7 and EVERYONE
WHO SHOWS UP IN A LOOPER'S DELIGHT T-SHIRT gets a free beer.  One beer for
everybody.  My final offer.  Unless you wanna sit in, and then you gotta
bring your instrument.
Gary

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 27 11:04:04 2001
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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 13:35:06 -0300
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From: Matthias Grob <matthias@grob.org>
Subject: Re: EDP- Delay Mode-Mute
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>EDP question-
>
>In delay mode I press Overdub to hold the loop- if I then Mute the 
>loop the loop fades away- is there a way to avoid this?
>
>Thanks-
>
>Cliff

great! that inconsistency can almost be called a bug, although only 
about 2-3 users noted it. Fixed in the upgrade.
-- 


          ---> http://Matthias.Grob.org

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 27 11:55:37 2001
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From: "Rainer Straschill" <rs@moinlabs.de>
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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 17:25:10 +0100
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With defects manifesting resenctly with my DAT recorder, the time will come
in the near future to replace this device. The must-haves are:

	* portable
	* possibility to battery-power
	* mcrophone in
	* digital ports
	* recording time of min. 80min. without media exchange

would-be-nice would be:

	* quality up to "CD quality"
	* exchangeable media
	* high-bandwith computer inteface (either for device or for media)

Any thoughts?

	Rainer

Rainer Straschill
Moinlabs GFX and Soundworks - www.moinlabs.de
digital penis expert group - www.dpeg.de
The MoinSound Archives - www.mp3.com/moinlabs

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 27 13:14:09 2001
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Subject: Re: the perils of live looping (addition question)
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 17:44:06 -0000
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Expectation is indeed a key thing, though I do think that you can do an ambient drone based thing and get the audience to go
with you... Max's point about working with the audience was a good one - as well as Mark's suggestion to give some sort of
explaination of what's going on (even though we as performers can't imagine how anyone could think it was a backing track,
I've had people suggest that I put 'mistakes' on the track to make it sound live...????? what's worse, the mistake was part
of the tune... :o)

I tend to try and explain a little of what's going on, and also to give people liberty to respond however they like, so long
as it doesn't upset anyone else's listening experience - if it's a social setting and everyone is chatting, that's cool,
no-one gets upset, and I can noodle away... if half want to list and half want to talk, you're in the shit - very hard to
pitch a gig half way, I find. But I do let people know that it's OK to close their eyes, doze off, chill, eat, drink - just
don't do it near the mics if I'm recording the show! :o)

I'm also fortunate that I tend to react to what's happening physically - I find much the music I make hugely funny (it's just
the notion of sitting on a stage with a bass and a bunch of toys and having people pay money to watch me do it...!!!) and do
react to what I'm doing facially. I remember seeing Michael Manring build up this insane multiloop noise-fest thing and then
just look in horror at his amp with his head in his hands - it changes the way that the listener relates to what you're
doing.

If there's a story behind the tune (assuming there's some composed element to it) that can help to give people a focus - or
hey, you could hand out paper and pens and turn it into a creative writing seminar, inspired by your music... :o)

Whatever - I tend to feel a huge amount of gratitude to anyone who comes out to see me play, and try to convey that - they
don't have to be there, and I hope they have a great time. If they don't, that's a shame, but if you're not playing
'commercial' music, then you've got to learn to deal with people not 'getting it' in some way... After all, perception is a
wonderful and random thing...

BTW - on the subject of gratitude, I'd be very grateful if any of you in California would check out the gig page on my
website for details of my dates in Thousand Oaks, Santa Barbara, Sacramento, San Jose and (hopefully) Santa Cruz dates in
January - I'll post the full details here soon...

Steve
www.steve-lawson.co.uk


> > -- One reason I personally have been trying tooth and nail to steer away
> > from effects-laden, ambient-styled loop work is because I've found that
> > it hard to capture and hold a live audience with that approach.  Now,
> > for a lot of ambient musicians, that's exactly the point -- to NOT
> > necessarily demand their focused listening, and to function as a
> > background environmental aspect just as much as a foreground element.
> > For me personally, though, I want to be able to grab and hold a
> > listener, and I've found that it's hard to do that with the
> > ambient/ebowed/droney/rubato/soundscapey angle.
> >
> Exactly Andre!  Expectations are what can get you in trouble.  Playing
> an ambient set and expecting an audience to hang on your every note is
> unfair to the audience.  I for one, like playing
> ambient/bowed/droney/rubato(what the hell is that?)/soundscapey stuff,
> but at things like art openings, or at a cafe where the art or social
> interaction is the focus, not me.
>
> You'll still get that random person at the end that asks about your
> gear, or say, "Do you know the band Can?"
>
> Mark Sottilaro
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 27 13:35:32 2001
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Subject: Re: EDP- Delay Mode-Mute
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I guess I should feel special my EDP has a few rare idiosyncracies-(clock
crystal out of spec etc)  looking forward to the new update- Thanks Mattias.

PS- If anyone is interested the Paradis site has EDP software info- you
should see the huge list of things that were in the last update- I'm sure
the new update will be worth the wait-

Cliff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthias Grob" <matthias@grob.org>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: EDP- Delay Mode-Mute


> >EDP question-
> >
> >In delay mode I press Overdub to hold the loop- if I then Mute the
> >loop the loop fades away- is there a way to avoid this?
> >
> >Thanks-
> >
> >Cliff
>
> great! that inconsistency can almost be called a bug, although only
> about 2-3 users noted it. Fixed in the upgrade.
> --
>
>
>           ---> http://Matthias.Grob.org
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 27 13:51:22 2001
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Subject: Re: the perils of live looping (addition question)
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I will try to catch you at NAMM- happy trails- 

Cliff


> BTW - on the subject of gratitude, I'd be very grateful if any of you in
California would check out the gig page on my
> website for details of my dates in Thousand Oaks, Santa Barbara,
Sacramento, San Jose and (hopefully) Santa Cruz dates in
> January - I'll post the full details here soon...
>
> Steve
> www.steve-lawson.co.uk
>


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steve,
 
thanks for your thoughts on this. 
 
stig
 
 
 As far as the professional/amateur discussion, I try to keep my "beginner's
mind" in music, and try not letting being a "professional" get in the way of
my music-making.  Several years ago I decided to separate my money-making
ventures in music from  my "artistic" ventures, and it's been quite good for
my head.  When I do paid work (these days mostly in TV/film scoring), I
consider I'm doing a service for a client and try to provide them with
something they can use.  I try to be as creative as I can and to have as
much fun with it as I can, but realize that I'm being paid to support the
project.   
 
  . . . . 
 
 I love the definition of "amateur" as someone who does art for the love of
it -- I hope I always keep my amateur status. 



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<BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV><FONT size=4><SPAN class=155460119-27122001><FONT color=#0000ff 
  face=Arial size=2>steve,</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=4><SPAN class=155460119-27122001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  class=155460119-27122001>thanks for your thoughts on this. 
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  class=155460119-27122001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  class=155460119-27122001>stig</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=4><SPAN class=155460119-27122001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=4><SPAN class=155460119-27122001>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=4><SPAN class=155460119-27122001>&nbsp;</SPAN>As far as the 
  professional/amateur discussion, I try to keep my "beginner's mind" in music, 
  and try not letting being a "professional" get in the way of my music-making. 
  &nbsp;Several years ago I decided to separate my money-making ventures in 
  music from &nbsp;my "artistic" ventures, and it's been quite good for my head. 
  &nbsp;When I do paid work (these days mostly in TV/film scoring), I consider 
  I'm doing a service for a client and try to provide them with something they 
  can use. &nbsp;I try to be as creative as I can and to have as much fun with 
  it as I can, but realize that I'm being paid to support the 
  project.&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT 
  face=Arial><SPAN 
  class=155460119-27122001>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial><SPAN 
  class=155460119-27122001>&nbsp;</SPAN><BR><SPAN 
  class=155460119-27122001>&nbsp; . . . 
.&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=4><SPAN class=155460119-27122001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=4><SPAN class=155460119-27122001>&nbsp;</SPAN>I love the 
  definition of "amateur" as someone who does art for the love of it -- I hope I 
  always keep my amateur status.</FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><CODE><FONT SIZE=3><BR>
<BR>
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** ah  . . . so i'm a professional amateur ;-)

interesting how commerce changes the meaning of words.

thanks for the font of knowledge richard (again),

stig


<<It's worth reflecting on the fact that before "profession" came to 
mean "a line of work" it generally described a religious calling. So 
traditionally, a professional was one who had a lofty goal and whose 
work had a spiritual essence.>>




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<P><FONT SIZE=2>** ah&nbsp; . . . so i'm a professional amateur ;-)</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>interesting how commerce changes the meaning of words.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>thanks for the font of knowledge richard (again),</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>stig</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>&lt;&lt;It's worth reflecting on the fact that before &quot;profession&quot; came to </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>mean &quot;a line of work&quot; it generally described a religious calling. So </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>traditionally, a professional was one who had a lofty goal and whose </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>work had a spiritual essence.&gt;&gt;</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 27 15:11:52 2001
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Subject: Re: Looper's Poll--Live or Memorex? (also gig spam)
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I say go for it.  Maybe you could borrow or rent an LCD monitor for the 
evening.  Good lighting is VERY important, in my opinion.  I forgot to 
bring any "stage" lights to the last party I played, and one of the 
hostesses kept turning off the lights as we were setting up.  She told 
her friends the party started at 8 (the webpage/flyer said 10) and felt 
obliged to have a halloween ambience going for the early people.  
Anyway, make sure you can see your stuff, and break a leg.

Mark

Mark
On Wednesday, December 26, 2001, at 08:20  PM, Gary Lehmann wrote:

> Well, here's a chance to cast your vote on the subject--
> I got this gig, see, at a local beer/wine pub, seats maybe twenty 
> people if
> they love each other, on the basis of an audition I did with acoustic 
> guitar
> and vocal augmented by laptop with sequences.  Virtually no looping, 
> just
> for a solo on one song and an outro on another. although I did a couple 
> of
> songs with just guitar, vocal and harmonica solo.  Then a couple of 
> nights
> ago I discover the display on my laptop has become too dim to see, so it
> must go back to Hewlett Packard for a week (dude, I shoulda bought a 
> Dell).
> Should I drag the desktop (with its horrible CRT glare) to the gig or 
> try to
> do it with my EDP?
> A mitigating factor is that I invited the talented Mr. Harvey Starr to 
> sit
> in on Ztar and he says he's probably gonna do it with me.  Don't you 
> think I
> should bite the bullet and do the live thing?  What are they gonna do, 
> FIRE
> ME????
> Please cast your vote, if you have one, to the list, as someone named 
> Chooky
> sent some viral screen saver thing I narrowly avoided, and I have been 
> more
> careful about opening my mail.
> BTW, the name of the Place is Henifin's Pub, located at 13314-16 Poway 
> Rd.,
> Poway, CA  92064, telephone (858) 486-0764, the date is New Year's 
> Eve, I
> start at 9 PM and they have a free buffet that starts around 7 and 
> EVERYONE
> WHO SHOWS UP IN A LOOPER'S DELIGHT T-SHIRT gets a free beer.  One beer 
> for
> everybody.  My final offer.  Unless you wanna sit in, and then you gotta
> bring your instrument.
> Gary
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 27 15:23:45 2001
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Subject: NAMM?
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Hey,

Just when and where is NAMM?  My wife and I want to go this year for 
sure.

Mark

On Thursday, December 27, 2001, at 10:20  AM, Clifford@BienAppraisers 
wrote:

> I will try to catch you at NAMM- happy trails-
>
> Cliff
>
>
>> BTW - on the subject of gratitude, I'd be very grateful if any of you 
>> in
> California would check out the gig page on my
>> website for details of my dates in Thousand Oaks, Santa Barbara,
> Sacramento, San Jose and (hopefully) Santa Cruz dates in
>> January - I'll post the full details here soon...
>>
>> Steve
>> www.steve-lawson.co.uk
>>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 27 15:26:21 2001
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NAMM is at the Anaheim convention center, January 17-20th.

Be sure to stop by booth 6800 and say hello.

Carl Jacobson

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sottilaro [mailto:sine@zerocrossing.net] 
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 2:51 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: NAMM?

Hey,

Just when and where is NAMM?  My wife and I want to go this year for 
sure.

Mark

On Thursday, December 27, 2001, at 10:20  AM, Clifford@BienAppraisers 
wrote:

> I will try to catch you at NAMM- happy trails-
>
> Cliff
>
>
>> BTW - on the subject of gratitude, I'd be very grateful if any of you 
>> in
> California would check out the gig page on my
>> website for details of my dates in Thousand Oaks, Santa Barbara,
> Sacramento, San Jose and (hopefully) Santa Cruz dates in
>> January - I'll post the full details here soon...
>>
>> Steve
>> www.steve-lawson.co.uk
>>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 27 15:52:12 2001
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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 20:20:03 +0000
Subject: Looping and Steve Sandberg... 
From: Steve Lawson <steve@steve-lawson.co.uk>
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>>>I know Steve from a Raga class with Michael Harrison (the last piano
tuner for La Monte Young's Well Tuned Piano in the '80's and an amazing
artist in his own right) a few years ago. Steve's a competent musican,
I was impressed with his skill at notating and repeating whatever
Michael dished out. I know I couldn't deal with it.

At the time I didn't know that he had played with David Byrne,
Ruben Blades and others.

So the down homey coments by Steve Lawson aboout making
a demo seem strange, I don't think SL knows where Mr. Sandberg is coming
from.<<<

Until this latest post, I had no idea where Steve Sandberg is coming from,
though I'm not sure my comments were 'down-homey'... :o) The beauty of a
list like this is that the answer to a question by one person can put things
in perspective for someone else entirely...

I guess it just goes to show that the answer to a question can only ever
refer to the question unless prior knowledge is present, and for those
looking on, the difference between a helpful answer and 'down-homey'
comments is in the questioner, not the question... ooh, the philosophical
spin-offs from such a simple Q & A :o)

Steve 
www.downhomeyquestionsanswered.com 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 27 16:03:34 2001
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i think that it's 17-20 jan.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sottilaro [mailto:sine@zerocrossing.net]
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 11:51 AM
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
Subject: NAMM?


Hey,

Just when and where is NAMM?  My wife and I want to go this year for 
sure.

Mark

On Thursday, December 27, 2001, at 10:20  AM, Clifford@BienAppraisers 
wrote:

> I will try to catch you at NAMM- happy trails-
>
> Cliff
>
>
>> BTW - on the subject of gratitude, I'd be very grateful if any of you 
>> in
> California would check out the gig page on my
>> website for details of my dates in Thousand Oaks, Santa Barbara,
> Sacramento, San Jose and (hopefully) Santa Cruz dates in
>> January - I'll post the full details here soon...
>>
>> Steve
>> www.steve-lawson.co.uk
>>
>
>


<font size="1">Confidentiality Warning:  This e-mail contains information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above.  If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, any dissemination, publication or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. The sender does not accept any responsibility for any loss, disruption or damage to your data or computer system that may occur while using data contained in, or transmitted with, this e-mail.   If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us by return e-mail.  Thank you.


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<TITLE>RE: NAMM?</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>i think that it's 17-20 jan.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Mark Sottilaro [<A HREF="mailto:sine@zerocrossing.net">mailto:sine@zerocrossing.net</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 11:51 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: NAMM?</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Hey,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Just when and where is NAMM?&nbsp; My wife and I want to go this year for </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>sure.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>Mark</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>On Thursday, December 27, 2001, at 10:20&nbsp; AM, Clifford@BienAppraisers </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>wrote:</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; I will try to catch you at NAMM- happy trails-</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; Cliff</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;&gt; BTW - on the subject of gratitude, I'd be very grateful if any of you </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;&gt; in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; California would check out the gig page on my</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;&gt; website for details of my dates in Thousand Oaks, Santa Barbara,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt; Sacramento, San Jose and (hopefully) Santa Cruz dates in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;&gt; January - I'll post the full details here soon...</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;&gt; Steve</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;&gt; www.steve-lawson.co.uk</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;</FONT>
</P>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 27 16:11:39 2001
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From: "Clifford@BienAppraisers" <res0koq3@verizon.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <E224D8B54886D511BDA8000103D14049119563@NENTS40ENT02>
Subject: OT: Good deal CF card/reader
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 12:40:27 -0800
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Simpletech compact flash/smartmedia reader/writer $29.51 (has 2 slots and
can access both at same time) and 128mb Simpletech CF card- $58.20- Total
was $93.20 w UPS ground.

www.cdw.com

Mark Thomas sales rep-

Cliff

----- Original Message -----
From: <CarlJacobson@cakewalk.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: NAMM?


> NAMM is at the Anaheim convention center, January 17-20th.
>
> Be sure to stop by booth 6800 and say hello.
>
> Carl Jacobson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sottilaro [mailto:sine@zerocrossing.net]
> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 2:51 PM
> To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
> Subject: NAMM?
>
> Hey,
>
> Just when and where is NAMM?  My wife and I want to go this year for
> sure.
>
> Mark
>
> On Thursday, December 27, 2001, at 10:20  AM, Clifford@BienAppraisers
> wrote:
>
> > I will try to catch you at NAMM- happy trails-
> >
> > Cliff
> >
> >
> >> BTW - on the subject of gratitude, I'd be very grateful if any of you
> >> in
> > California would check out the gig page on my
> >> website for details of my dates in Thousand Oaks, Santa Barbara,
> > Sacramento, San Jose and (hopefully) Santa Cruz dates in
> >> January - I'll post the full details here soon...
> >>
> >> Steve
> >> www.steve-lawson.co.uk
> >>
> >
> >
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 27 18:44:04 2001
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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 15:11:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Aaron Schindler <aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Perils of live/The extension of the Keaggy thread
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> I've gotten a lot out of the discussion - most of
> all the feeling that what
> I'm going through is just the nature of the beast,
> and the encouragement to
> keep at it.

I just read a quote from Pablo Picasso today that
relates to this quite well..

" I am always doing that which I can not do, in order
that I may learn how to do" 

Aaron

__________________________________________________
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Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 27 18:54:33 2001
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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 15:22:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Aaron Schindler <aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Perils of live/The extension of the Keaggy thread
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I meant - 
> " I am always doing that which I can not do, in
> order
> that I may learn how to do it" 
> 
> Aaron
(I'm an idiot)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 27 20:00:18 2001
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Subject: Re: pro/amateur
From: carlos goldstein <iteroceter@earthlink.net>
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on 12/27/01 2:19 PM, Liebig, Steuart A. at Steuart.Liebig@maritz.com wrote:

** ah  . . . so i'm a professional amateur ;-)

interesting how commerce changes the meaning of words.

thanks for the font of knowledge richard (again),

sorry for interjecting , but all this serius talk of pro/amateur took me on
a mental thought thread and ended in the W.Allen flick about the second best
guitar player: Sean Penn was in the central roll.
lol remembering the part where he got caught trying to win that amateur
contest!


MS.


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on 12/27/01 2:19 PM, Liebig, Steuart A. at Steuart.Liebig@maritz.com wrote:=
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2">** ah &nbsp;. . . so i'm a professional amateur =
;-)</FONT> <BR>
<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3D"2">interesting how commerce changes the meaning of words.</FONT=
> <BR>
<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3D"2">thanks for the font of knowledge richard (again),</FONT> <BR=
>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2">sorry for interjecting , but all this serius ta=
lk of pro/amateur took me on a mental thought thread and ended in the W.Alle=
n flick about the second best guitar player: Sean Penn was in the central ro=
ll.<BR>
lol remembering the part where he got caught trying to win that amateur con=
test!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
MS.</FONT><BR>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 27 20:15:10 2001
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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 19:41:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Looping live, professionalism , etc.
From: Steve Sandberg <stevesandberg@earthlink.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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Just want to both thank David for spouting my credentials  and lauding my
musicianship and assure everyone that I never took offense at anything that
was offered -- 
I agree with Andre's comments that looping is a whole different ballgame,
and actually one of the things I'm discovering is that I think my looping is
at its weakest when I'm trying to emulate a compositional structure based on
a non-looping framework, and strongest when I let it be itself.
A happy new year to all! 

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<FONT SIZE=3D"4">Just want to both thank David for spouting my credentials &n=
bsp;and lauding my musicianship and assure everyone that I never took offens=
e at anything that was offered -- <BR>
I agree with Andre's comments that looping is a whole different ballgame, a=
nd actually one of the things I'm discovering is that I think my looping is =
at its weakest when I'm trying to emulate a compositional structure based on=
 a non-looping framework, and strongest when I let it be itself. &nbsp;<BR>
A happy new year to all!</FONT>
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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 27 23:23:35 2001
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Subject: Re: Perils of live/The extension of the Keaggy thread
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aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com writes:

>I just read a quote from Pablo Picasso today that
>relates to this quite well..
>" I am always doing that which I can not do, in order
>that I may learn how to do" 
great, great.
best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 27 23:26:45 2001
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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 22:55:16 EST
Subject: Re: Looping live, professionalism , etc.
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stevesandberg@earthlink.net writes:

>looping is a whole different ballgame,
>and actually one of the things I'm discovering is that I think my looping
>is
>at its weakest when I'm trying to emulate a compositional structure based
>on
>a non-looping framework, and strongest when I let it be itself.

if i replace the word 'looping' w/the word 'music', and the phrase 'a 
compositional structure' w/'idiomatic strictures', well.....
i like that a lot: yup, i do.
in fact, the original sounds good to me, too.
best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Thu Dec 27 23:50:31 2001
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Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 20:19:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Aaron Schindler <aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Looping live, professionalism , etc.
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> I think my looping is
> at its weakest when I'm trying to emulate a
> compositional structure based on
> a non-looping framework, and strongest when I let it
> be itself.

this has me thinking. after buying Splattercell (both
discs are a must have) and reading about DT's cell
technique I started experimenting with "composing" a
structure while away from my instruments (meaning at
work of course) as in:  AAB fade in C D AAB  and so
on, being as detailed as possible in every way. Then
when i got home I would play the structure while
spontaneously coming up with individual parts on the
spot. This was a very eye opening approach for me as
previously i had mainly built or layered loops from an
initial drone or riff. 
I would love to hear other approaches that any of you
have tried. I often find that by imposing arbitrary
rules or limits on what i am "allowed" to do i.e.
painting myself in a corner, i am much more creative
than if i just play.
just looking for fresh ideas! Thanks.
Aaron

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 28 03:58:50 2001
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   Hello,
   Being a new guy, I was wondering if any of you had
   a/any suggestion/s for divorcing one's self from
   the "song" mindset when looping? After many years
   of approaching the composition of music from the
   song/structured format, I'm leaping into the looping
   deep end and the improvisational nature of looping,
   and am interested in your thoughts and approaches
   to it.
   Thanks again!
   Sincerely,
   Chris Olden

   p.s.-I've really been enjoying the threads over the
        past few days. Great stuff!


_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: With a Picasso's mind: everything got twisted....
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"if i replace the word 'looping' w/the word 'music', and the phrase 'a
compositional structure' w/'idiomatic strictures', well....."

MMm an interesting and apt choice of "rephrasing" (although not really
in fact).

I have more than once used "loops" to place myself in the position the
original quote from picasso stated.
Meaning, construct a patchwork of things I'm totally unable to play,
while I did play all parts. And then try to learn it.
Of course the word "loop" here is then used in a quite restrictive
sense. It is mereley a form of editing.
It led me to more or less disconnect my work from my guitar knowledge
(being a former guitarist).
That is the interesting part. Of course, with the time, it led me to
focus more on sounds, arrangements, composition, than on the instrument
itself. Because that was were music could lye (mm sp?), in my elusive
search for such a thing.
So, by a funny twist, working hard on the instrument as well as on
designing exercices, made me weaker on my guitar  (on a purely
"technical" point of view of course).

Olivier Malhomme

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 28 12:17:41 2001
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http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1401808993

Thanks! :)
_________________________
Alan Barnard
BarnarDesign
http://www.barnardesign.com
alan@barnardesign.com  

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In a message dated 12/28/2001 2:28:43 AM Central Standard Time, 
chrisolden@hotmail.com writes:

         >   Hello,
>    Being a new guy, I was wondering if any of you had
>    a/any suggestion/s for divorcing one's self from
>    the "song" mindset when looping? After many years
>    of approaching the composition of music from the
>    song/structured format, I'm leaping into the looping
>    deep end and the improvisational nature of looping,
>    and am interested in your thoughts and approaches
>    to it.
>    Thanks again!
>    Sincerely,
>    Chris Olden
> 
>    p.s.-I've really been enjoying the threads over the
>         past few days. Great stuff!
> 

I started looping about a week ago! its great i come from a similar past and 
approach looping like this...

(so far) i think that looping is a no rules sort of mind set... i try letting 
my mistakes guide my loops right now... and work them into the tune... (it 
actually makes my stuff sound smarter LOL)

OK so... With my nine string bass, I imitate a hip hop kick drum sound (my 
low F# string is 23hrtz) and get that loop started. Then I imitate a snare 
tone...

I add a hi hat imitation if necessary (harmonics), then a bass line and then 
I solo over all of it...

I record every one of my loops to monitor improvement by adding my roland 
vs880 into the chain...

Thanks,
Gregory Bruce Campbell
<A HREF="www.kickstartchubby.com">www.kickstartchubby.com</A>

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=1>In a message dated 12/28/2001 2:28:43 AM Central Standard Time, chrisolden@hotmail.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">&nbsp; Hello,<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp; Being a new guy, I was wondering if any of you had<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp; a/any suggestion/s for divorcing one's self from<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp; the "song" mindset when looping? After many years<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp; of approaching the composition of music from the<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp; song/structured format, I'm leaping into the looping<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp; deep end and the improvisational nature of looping,<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp; and am interested in your thoughts and approaches<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp; to it.<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp; Thanks again!<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp; Sincerely,<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp; Chris Olden<BR>
<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp; p.s.-I've really been enjoying the threads over the<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; past few days. Great stuff!<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
I started looping about a week ago! its great i come from a similar past and approach looping like this...<BR>
<BR>
(so far) i think that looping is a no rules sort of mind set... i try letting my mistakes guide my loops right now... and work them into the tune... (it actually makes my stuff sound smarter LOL)<BR>
<BR>
OK so... With my nine string bass, I imitate a hip hop kick drum sound (my low F# string is 23hrtz) and get that loop started. Then I imitate a snare tone...<BR>
<BR>
I add a hi hat imitation if necessary (harmonics), then a bass line and then I solo over all of it...<BR>
<BR>
I record every one of my loops to monitor improvement by adding my roland vs880 into the chain...</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Thanks,<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>Greg</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B>ory Bruce </FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>Campbell</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
<A HREF="www.kickstartchubby.com">www.kickstartchubby.com</A></FONT></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 28 18:10:06 2001
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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 22:37:55 +0000
Subject: gig spam - another Steve Lawson gig added in CA...
From: Steve Lawson <steve@steve-lawson.co.uk>
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Just found out (from the Knitting Factory website!) that I'm playing at the
Knitting Factory LA on Monday 7th January - tix are $7 - it'd be great to
see y'all there, please bring your friends and family! I'm rather excited
about playing there, so please make extra special effort to come along (and
I'll make extra special effort to be inspiring... :o)

See www.knittingfactory.com/kfla for more info...

Cheers

Steve 
www.steve-lawson.co.uk

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 28 18:25:34 2001
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Early in my looping career, I took ambient recordings and played over 
them, similar to the way I played over British invasion stuff when I 
first started playing guitar.  I think I learned a lot jamming over 
Music for Airports.  It started when I put that album on a tape that 
we'd play during breaks in between sets.  One day I was the first to get 
back on stage.  To let the rest of the band know I wanted to start, I 
started playing along.  One by one I was joined by the rest of the band, 
we faded out the Eno, then transitioned into one of our original songs.  
This became a part of our live shows for a while.  We then took the 
training wheels off, and never looked back.

Mark Sottilaro

On Friday, December 28, 2001, at 12:27  AM, Chris Olden wrote:

>
>
>
>   Hello,
>   Being a new guy, I was wondering if any of you had
>   a/any suggestion/s for divorcing one's self from
>   the "song" mindset when looping? After many years
>   of approaching the composition of music from the
>   song/structured format, I'm leaping into the looping
>   deep end and the improvisational nature of looping,
>   and am interested in your thoughts and approaches
>   to it.
>   Thanks again!
>   Sincerely,
>   Chris Olden
>
>   p.s.-I've really been enjoying the threads over the
>        past few days. Great stuff!
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 28 21:42:07 2001
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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 20:06:43 -0600
From: Mike Killian <kili@swbell.net>
Subject: Digitech Vocalist
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Am wondering if anyone uses the Digitech Vocalist, either the Performer, or
the VR unit or an older version.  I do a lot of solo heavily "effected"
things and would like to add vocals.  (and of course cannot just do it
"dry")

Mike Killian



From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Fri Dec 28 23:15:59 2001
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Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 03:44:33 
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Hi Gang!
I have been away for a few days, but have been greatly enjoying this 
continuing thread on all things looping!  Some really wonderful ideas 
kicking around.  This is what I love about this list...the free interchange 
of ideas, concepts, techniques, et al.
So let me pick up where I left off....something about "smoke and mirrors".  
One thing, and a very important thing, I learned from Rick "Loopool" Walker 
was not to underestimate your audience.  Believe it or not, most audiences 
DO want to be challenged, whether they are cognizent of this or not.  For us 
loopers, this is very important.  Sure, as Steve Lawson pointed out, they 
may not really be aware of or understand the concept or technololgy of 
looping, and perhaps you may have to lead them around by the ear for a bit, 
but almost always, the audience becomes rapt with the entire process.  This 
has been my experience in live situations, where, as Steve said, they might 
believe there are "canned" parts...or sequences etc.  To counter that, I try 
to throw a few glitches into my performance....to keep it from being in any 
way perfect (which for me is never really a serious threat :-0)
hmmm..I was just listening to some live tracks from the solo bass looping 
tour this summer, and maybe I took that concept to an extreme!
By "walking the audience" thru the whole looping process, you somehow 
involve them in what is happening, and at that point...you have 'em!
I tend to look at looping, and the tools thereof, as instruments themselves 
(albeit instruments which require an external sound device).  I try not to 
recreate other works, or make myself sound exactly the same gig after gig, 
night after night. I suppose that now with the Repeater and it's memory 
functions, mainaining loops and sequences can be part of the looping 
show...and this is fine, but I rather enjoy stretching the limitations of 
both the player and the gear. Looping greatly benefits the improvisatory 
nature of music, and as such, the "looping" part of your performance is as 
just evolving, and involving, as your instrumental "chops".  I try to work 
this into each of my looping gigs.
I also am quite fond of adapting compostional approaches to the looping 
environment.  Rather than trying to, say, make an ABBA type structure with 
multiple loops, I try to adapt or make a variation of my compositon to 
include it in a looping system.  Often times this means shifting the harmony 
over a static rhythm loop, or shifteing the melody over a static harmony.. 
or tapping out and starting over incorporating both ideas!
Of, course, using loops in a live setting is gonna be hazardous.  The 
foot-pedal ballet thing is sometimes mind-numbing in its own right, but add 
to that the horror of "the bad loop"!  What I try (really I do TRY) to do is 
incorporate all these snafus, glitches, clams, and train-wrecks into the 
performance, just as you use what talents and chops you have to cover those 
same kind of faux pas "sans loops".  Incidentally, when Steve spoke of 
leaving (and encouraging) the audience to do what ever suits their fancy, it 
reminded me of a solo gig I did a few weeks ago where there were folks 
listening intentively, others in various conversations, and others eating 
(complete with clanging glasses and silverware), all coupled with the (now 
mandatory) cappucino machine blaring off every few moments (not to mention 
the cafe was near the train tracks!!).  So I improvised a piece which used 
all of these elements in it.  There were but a privilaged few in attendence 
who "got it", but I made sure to thank everyone who contributed their "part" 
to the piece.  Was the piece filled with blatant mistakes? Sure..timing 
errors (mostly on the part of the audience or espresso machine :-o)),bad 
notes, etc., but using a DL4 allowed me to flip those around, or change 
speeds.....
well you get the picture.
by the way, I too am a professional musician....I actually make my living 
doing this!  In that way I am very blessed, as I get to make a living from 
what I love to do most.
whew!  a little more than just $.02..but what the heck!
Max


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec 29 11:31:40 2001
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Subject: Re: Looping live, professionalism , etc.
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 10:56:29 -0500
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Re: Looping live, professionalism , etc.Sure Steve! I've been semi-off =
line for a few days, I could read my email=20
but unable to respond until now. So sorry I used the term =
"professional",=20
I didn't expect people to jump all over the term. I should have said =
"quite competent".

dB

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Steve Sandberg=20

  Just want to both thank David for spouting my credentials  and lauding =
my musicianship and assure everyone that I never took offense at =
anything that was offered --=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Re: Looping live, professionalism , etc.</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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<STYLE></STYLE>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sure Steve! </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>I've=20
been semi-off line for a few days, I could read my email </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>but unable to respond </FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>until now. So sorry I used the term "professional", =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I didn't expect people </FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>to jump all over the term. I should have said "quite=20
competent".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>dB</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>* David Beardsley<BR>* <A=20
href=3D"http://biink.com">http://biink.com</A><BR>* <A=20
href=3D"http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley">http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley</A><=
/FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dstevesandberg@earthlink.net=20
  href=3D"mailto:stevesandberg@earthlink.net">Steve Sandberg</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">&nbsp;</DIV><FONT size=3D4>Just want =
to both thank=20
  David for spouting my credentials &nbsp;and lauding my musicianship =
and assure=20
  everyone that I never took offense at anything that was offered --=20
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0068_01C19057.7847A400--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec 29 19:15:15 2001
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hi folks. i'm doing a new year's eve show at a friend's warehouse in
brooklyn and i have a question for the more experienced about gear safety. i
have a ride up via another attendee's rental car, but we haven't booked the
ride back yet. i could go either by train (amtrak) or by bus (greyhound).
amtrak is naturally more expensive, and at least in this case might create a
bigger hassle getting to/from the station. greyhound is way cheap for this
one way trip and i've used them before, but never with my actual equipment
along for the often bumpy ride.

details:

case one: skb pop up mixer case, used but good shape, holding mackie cfx-12
and all cables.

case two: gator case 6 RU roller rack, holding patchbay, power
conditioner/supply, repeater, RNC compressor, and Mo-FX. since all units are
shallow the negative space will probably be filled by a kaoss pad, and
headrush, i'm thinking of velcroing them to the sides or inside the back
lid. i'll probably fill remaining space in each case with clothes in lieu of
a suitcase to save space and give a little extra cushion.

my carry-on will probably be a little roller case i found  with a discman,
minidisc recorder, and a couple of circuit-bent items.

i'm planning on laying things out tonight and tomorrow for a test play,
maybe i'll eliminate a few items for simplicity in the process, but
basically my question is are non shockmount cases safe enough for buses? and
actually, are trains any safer? i may have no choice but i figured i should
ask. ideally of course i'd just drive, and have more space for toys, but
that's not a safe option at the moment.

any advice is quite appreciated!

Jon

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec 29 20:09:35 2001
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Subject: Re: Looping live, professionalism , etc.
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max wrote:
>One thing, and a very important thing, I learned from Rick "Loopool" Walker
>was not to underestimate your audience. 
whether under- or over-, it's till only an estimation.....
 
>Believe it or not, most audiences
>DO want to be challenged, whether they are cognizent of this or not.
i'm not so sure about that.
these days, it seems there's been a kinf of amplified resistance towards 
'challenge/surprise', in the ongoing musical balancing act 'twixt that half 
of the equation & the other: that of 'fulfilling expectations'.

>For us loopers, this is very important.  Sure, as Steve Lawson pointed out, 
they
>may not really be aware of or understand the concept or technololgy of
>looping, and perhaps you may have to lead them around by the ear for a
>bit, 
i'd prefer to avoid that, generally, myself.

>but almost always, the audience becomes rapt with the entire process. 
again, that's not my experience --- and i don't tend towards 'explaining' my 
process to an audience, except at the odd (and, i do mean odd) clinic & 
master-class.
(i was turned off to that concept, in the '80's. after showing eberhard weber 
the lovely aspects of using a pcm42 as a looper and purchasing one for him, i 
went to one of his first solo-performances, where he educated the audience 
re: looping at the beginning of his performance; i found that, for me, some 
of the potential for 'magic' in the performance -ie, my ability to get 
'lost'/transformed by the music- was obviated by the more pedantic and 
pedagogic aspects that the act-of-explication had wrought).....

but --- while for us the *process* of looping may be important, why would 
that process be important to a listening audience? --- unless, of course, 
that audience is comprised primarily of musicians..... which is another 
story, altogether.

>This has been my experience in live situations, where, as Steve said, they 
might
>believe there are "canned" parts...or sequences etc. 
yes, whether there are 'canned' parts, or not.

OTOH, see: madonna's 'drowned world' tour, or
any NiN show:
nobody seems to *know* nor *care* that it's 'canned'.....
 
>To counter that,
>I try 
>to throw a few glitches into my performance....to keep it from being in
>any 
>way perfect (which for me is never really a serious threat :-0)
and, alternatively:
i've always thought that a more visually correspondent way of manipulating 
loops might help the audience-disconnect factor, a bit.....

>hmmm..I was just listening to some live tracks from the solo bass looping
>tour this summer, and maybe I took that concept to an extreme!
>By "walking the audience" thru the whole looping process, you somehow 
>involve them in what is happening, and at that point...you have 'em!
again..... and this is certainly just my personal preference:
i'm always hoping for some  kind of ineffable transformation to take place in 
the process of performance, both for me and for the audience..... at least, 
something more subtle than what might otherwise occur as a result of the 
addition of whatall might be construed as a 'lecture'.....

>I tend to look at looping, and the tools thereof, as instruments themselves
truth!

>(albeit instruments which require an external sound device). 
unless, of course, you're just patching the output back to the input.....
 
>I try not
>to recreate other works, or make myself sound exactly the same gig after gig,
>night after night. I suppose that now with the Repeater and it's memory>
>functions, mainaining loops and sequences can be part of the looping 
>show...and this is fine, but I rather enjoy stretching the limitations
>of 
>both the player and the gear. 
..... which doesn't define a mutually exclusive situation, i think.....

>Looping greatly benefits the improvisatory
>nature of music, 
digya.

>and as such, the "looping" part of your performance is
>as just evolving, and involving, as your instrumental "chops". 
for a committed looper, they *are* part & parcel of your instrumental 'chops':
just a different instrument! 

>I try to work
>this into each of my looping gigs.
digya!

>I also am quite fond of adapting compostional approaches to the looping
>environment.  Rather than trying to, say, make an ABBA type structure with
>multiple loops, I try to adapt or make a variation of my compositon to
>include it in a looping system.  Often times this means shifting the harmony
>over a static rhythm loop, or shifteing the melody over a static harmony..
here, too.....
not to mention purposefully glitching the 'composition', *and* its expected 
form.....

>or tapping out and starting over incorporating both ideas!
>Of, course, using loops in a live setting is gonna be hazardous.
thankfully!
bring on the dangers.....
  
>The foot-pedal ballet thing is sometimes mind-numbing in its own right, but
>add 
>to that the horror of "the bad loop"!  What I try (really I do TRY) to
>do is incorporate all these snafus, glitches, clams, and train-wrecks into 
the
>performance, just as you use what talents and chops you have to cover those
>same kind of faux pas "sans loops". 
again: digya.
 
>Incidentally, when Steve spoke of
>leaving (and encouraging) the audience to do what ever suits their fancy,
>it 
>reminded me of a solo gig I did a few weeks ago where there were folks
>listening intentively, others in various conversations, and others eating
>(complete with clanging glasses and silverware), all coupled with the (now
>mandatory) cappucino machine
ahhh, i love that sound.....
 
>blaring off every few moments (not to mention
>the cafe was near the train tracks!!).  So I improvised a piece which used
>all of these elements in it.  There were but a privilaged few in attendence
>who "got it", 
like, those who were actually listening continuously?

>but I made sure to thank everyone who contributed their "part"
>to the piece.  Was the piece filled with blatant mistakes? Sure..timing
>errors
see dangelo's cd, voodoo..... track #2.
 
>(mostly on the part of the audience or espresso machine :-o)),
ha!

>bad notes, etc., but using a DL4 allowed me to flip those around, or change
>speeds.....
>well you get the picture.
>by the way, I too am a professional musician....I actually make my living
>doing this!  In that way I am very blessed, as I get to make a living from
>what I love to do most.
>whew!  a little more than just $.02..but what the heck!
thanks for all that!
best,
dt / splattercell

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec 29 20:17:48 2001
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From: "Bill Fox" <billfox@fast.net>
To: "emusic-wdiy Mailing List" <emusic-wdiy@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: EMUSIC Playlist #249
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 19:40:33 -0500
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[ Best viewed using a fixed spacing font. ]

EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show, airs each Thursday
at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem, PA and 93.9 FM in
Easton, PA and Phillipsburg, NJ.

                    Show #249                    December 27, 2001.


RECAP:
On this show, I concluded the month-long focus on Orbital Decay, a band from
near-by Quakertown.  Influenced by the likes of Tangerine Dream, Klaus Shulze,
and Pink Floyd, Orbital Decay makes electronic space music with the
improvisational qualities and the energy of fusion styles from the 70s.  As a
special holiday treat, Orbital Decay will performed a live, in-studio, on-air
concert, preempting the Featured CD at Midnight.  It was also the debut of Tim
Richardson as the band's guitarist.

The vinyl show starter, a new feature of the show leftover from WDIY's Salute
to Records, was by Conrad Schnitzler & Gen Ken Montgomery.

Orbital Decay
http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic/playlists/2001/focus01.html#dec


PLAYLIST:

ARTIST                  TRACK                    ALBUM (label)
======================= ======================== ==============================
11:04 pm
Conrad Schnitzler &     Cold Blacksmith          CON GEN (Generations Unlimited)
  Gen Ken Montgomery
Free System Projekt &   Billy's Island           Okefenokee Dreams (Groove)
  Dave Brewer
AirSculpture            Bock                     Quark Soup (Neu Harmony)
Something Completely    Microwaves 1999          Promo Disc 1 (none)
  Different
Dean DeBenedictis       Imminent Core            A Lone Reply (Fateless)
Numina                  Opening to Beyond        Evolving Visions (none)
Stephen Philips &       Cave of the Wind *       Cave of the Wind (Dark Duck)
  Isomorph

12:00 am
Orbital Decay live, in-studio, on-air concert

1:00 am

 * = exerpt
VA = Various Artists (compilation)


NEXT SHOW:
On the next EMUSIC, I'll begin a month-long focus on Mathias Grassow.  Next
week's vinyl show starter will be by Robert Schroder.


Bill        billfox@fast.net           http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic
===============================================================================
Host of EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show.  Thursdays at
11 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem and 93.9 FM in Easton and
Phillipsburg.  Email me if you wish to submit music for airplay consideration.
Radio Station Home Page: http://wdiyfm.org
Personal site: http://www.users.fast.net/~billfox
To subscribe to the EMUSIC on WDIY list, go to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/emusic-wdiy and click on [Join This Group!]

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sat Dec 29 21:14:59 2001
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[ Best viewed using a fixed spacing font. ]

WDIY 88.1 FM "EMUSIC" Top 20 report to
New Age Voice and CD Revolutions for December, 2001.
Shows #246 to #249; 6-December-2001 to 27-December-2001
Reported in non-ranked order.
Compiled by Bill Fox, billfox@fast.net

CONTACT:   billfox@fast.net
           http://wdiyfm.org/programs/emusic/


ARTIST - ALBUM TITLE - LABEL
============================
AirSculpture - Quark Soup - Neu Harmony
Cyber Zen Sound Engine & Matt Borghi - Intercepted Transmissions - N-Light-N
Dean DeBenedictis - A Lone Reply - Fateless
Free System Projekt & Dave Brewer - Okefenokee Dreams - Groove
Geodesium - Stellar Collections - Loch Ness Productions
James Johnson & Robert Scott Thompson - Forgotten Places - Zero Music &
Aucourant Records
John Rose - Cosmogenesis - SpaceForMusic
Kubusschnitt - The Singularity - Neu Harmony
Orbital Decay - Drastic Park - none
Orbital Decay - Orbital Decay - none
Orbital Decay - Re-Entry - none
Radio Massacre International - Planet in the Wires - Northern Echo Recordings
Robert Rich - Bestiary - Relapse/Release
Something Completely Different - Promo Disc 1 - none
Stephen Philips & Isomorph - Cave of the Wind - Dark Duck
Tales - The Seskian Wars - SIT Records
Various Artists - Beyond Me - Neu Harmony
Various Artists - Track Across the Universe - none
vidnaObmana - Tremor - Relapse/Release
Vir Unis & James Johnson - Perimeter - Zero Music & In the Bubble Music

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 30 02:38:10 2001
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Max Valentino spake:

> >Believe it or not, most audiences
> >DO want to be challenged, whether they are cognizent of this or not.

and David Torn did quip:

> i'm not so sure about that.
> these days, it seems there's been a kinf of amplified resistance towards
> 'challenge/surprise', in the ongoing musical balancing act 'twixt that half
> of the equation & the other: that of 'fulfilling expectations'.

I'm wondering if either Max or David (both of you, ideally) could expand
on these respective points of view.  Because I'm curious as to any
specific experiences you might have had which would have led to the
formation of your current points of view.

Max: Are there specific venues/types of gigs/types of audiences that
you've found to be surprisingly open (or opposed) to doing your thing? 
(I'm also really curious as to venues you like for doing a solo live
looping thing, here in LA...)

David: Would you say that some of the feedback to the Splattercell
material has impacted your feelings regarding the percieved resistance
to challenge or surprise?  I'm thinking specifically of fusion and prog
fans who might have been expecting another "David Torn album of burning
guitar playing"?  Or maybe some people in the dj/dance world who might
look dubiously upon a schooled instrumentalist (let alone an electric
guitarist) trying to make a contribution to "their" sphere of music?

> OTOH, see: madonna's 'drowned world' tour, or
> any NiN show:
> nobody seems to *know* nor *care* that it's 'canned'.....

In both of these cases, I think a big part of the equation is that both
of these shows are very, very theatrical presentations, by celebrities
with significant cults of personality.  So the finer points of what's
live and what's prerecorded aren't at the forefront of the audience's
minds; it's more a question of the overall spectacle of the thing, of
which the music is but one part.

Max says:

> >By "walking the audience" thru the whole looping process, you somehow
> >involve them in what is happening, and at that point...you have 'em!

DT says:

> i'm always hoping for some  kind of ineffable transformation to take place in
> the process of performance, both for me and for the audience..... at least,
> something more subtle than what might otherwise occur as a result of the
> addition of whatall might be construed as a 'lecture'.....

and also says:

> but --- while for us the *process* of looping may be important, why would
> that process be important to a listening audience? --- unless, of course,
> that audience is comprised primarily of musicians..... which is another
> story, altogether.

My thought on this (and I'm probably opening a hell of a can of worms here):

I honestly feel that too much importance is placed on the mechanics and
craft of real-time looping by many of the musicians who use those tools.
 

Here's an older quote from David: "Looping isn't an effect: it's your
playing, only more of it."

Mull that over for a second.  YOUR playing.

It's interesting to compare notes on our various experiences with the
real-time loop thing, but ultimately I think any such discussion HAS to
take into account the skill and the musicality of whoever (and whatever)
is getting looped in the first place.  

That's something that can't be reduced to a genre of music, a style of
audience interaction, a performance venue, or a specific piece of gear.

It's my feeling that, ultimately, the music in and of itself needs to
have a certain fundamental strength to it, REGARDLESS of the presence or
absence of clever or unusual methodology.  

If the intrinsic interest or value of a musical performance rests SOLELY
in the fact that it's employing real-time looping... then I think that's
a pretty dubious foundation.

I've heard a lot of live looping that would be pretty unremarkable if it
wasn't for the fact that it was happenig in real time.  And even then,
it's been about 30 years since the first Fripp and Eno record helped
usher that approach into the "popular consciousness" (and longer still
since Terry Riley and others started gigging with the stuff in public),
or Jaco's looping solo in the middle of Joni Mitchell gigs.  

Sampling a phrase live and playing over it isn't exactly state of the
art anymore, and although a looping performer can often still get away
with the "wow, I've never seen that!" effect on an unsuspecting
audience, there HAS to be more to it then just the novelty of looping if
you want to bring them further along, into the realm of having a serious
musical experience.

This is NOT a criticism of Max's "lecture" approach, because clearly it
works for him.  But I have to assume that a big part of the appeal of
his live show, and a big part of what makes it work, involves Max's
playing in and of itself, apart from the lecture factor.  Because (aside
from his having a great reputation) I'm simply not convinced that
showing the audience the mechanics of the thing, in and of itself, is
enough to bring them along every time.

Same thing with Steve Lawson; a number of his tunes are very
straightforward in terms of "looping technique," but it doesn't matter,
because his playing is so strong and musical, and he uses the technology
in a way that augments and extends the foundation of his playing, far
beyond simply being "clever" or "interesting" to an unfamiliar listener.
 

And I think it's the same thing, ironically enough, with someone like
Torn, who uses a much more elaborate approach, both in terms of the
amount of gear and in terms of how far the gear is being "pushed".  But
he KNOWS that gear, and knows how to "play" it in a very musical manner.
 (Of course, his being one serious mo-fo of a guitarist means that any
looping of said guitar will be off to a good start to begin with.)  

On the other hand, a mediocre musician can plug into the most hardcore
looping gear on Earth, and give the most entertaining, insightful
introduction to the audience, but that alone isn't going to make them
sound any less mediocre.  If anything, it'll probably compound that
mediocrity with every successive overdub!

An unusual or esoteric approach (i.e. looping) might lure a listener's
curiosity, but it's a solid, innate, consistent musicality that will
hold that listener and reward their curiosity.  Whether that musicality
takes the form of playing a bass guitar or tweaking the LFO rate on the
fifth effects processor in a rack shouldn't matter.  

True, not every audience is going to be equally receptive to every type
of music.  Play an ambient drone back to back with a James Brown tune,
and you will probably get a "stronger," more "immediate" reaction from
people with the latter selection.  But that doesn't mean that people
can't hear the former one.  And it doesn't mean that a good ambient act
can't clean the floor with a bad funk band.

And sure, there's a hurdle to be overcome in learning how to coordinate
every additional piece of hardware on stage, and how to integrate that
hardware into a graceful musical (and visual) presentation on stage. 
But is that really so much different than an organist pulling different
stops, or a turntablist rummaging through the crate and changing records
mid-set, or a percussionist switching to a different instrument, or a
keyboardist switching to a different synth and scrolling through patches?

Anyway...

Hopefully some of this makes some sort of sense to someone.  Maybe I'm
overly idealistic about this.  I'm sure being on day 3 of caffeine
withdrawl has something to do with it too...

Best wishes, folks.

--Andre LaFosse
http://www.altruistmusic.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 30 11:32:29 2001
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From: Frank Gerace <seahorse@channel1.com>
Subject: Re: Expectations, artifice, and a hell of a can of worms
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In response to the questiones mentioned below regarding audience
expectations and their willingness to be 'led by the nose' I'd like to
contribute a few thoughts based on my experience.
	
>Max Valentino spake:
>> >Believe it or not, most audiences
>> >DO want to be challenged, whether they are cognizent of this or not.
>and David Torn did quip:
>> i'm not so sure about that.
>> these days, it seems there's been a kinf of amplified resistance towards
>> 'challenge/surprise', in the ongoing musical balancing act 'twixt that half
>> of the equation & the other: that of 'fulfilling expectations'.
>I'm wondering if either Max or David (both of you, ideally) could expand
>on these respective points of view.  Because I'm curious as to any
>specific experiences you might have had which would have led to the
>formation of your current points of view.
My background:
	I am in a band/duo that plays a dark, ethereal type of music.  We have
vocals (Cheryl, the vocalist, uses a JamMan and samples parts of her
singing to sing countermelodies to them and also loops and layers them
inplaces) wire strung  harp and electric bass (all cheryl's domain) and I
do the VG8 guitars using JamMan and Echoplex.  The material consits of
songs and pieces, the presentation is gothy and artsy and is done primarily
in clubs.  We are also part of a masked theater group where we do similar
types of music combined with whatever other music works within the
parameters of the presentation (folksongs, rhythmic bits. etc.)
	In the club world I find that people who are not musicians don't really
care how you do what you do unless they're trying to talk to you after the
set.  Then they usually say they noticed they heard more music than they
thought we'd produce as just two people. But mostly, they seem to be trying
to say things they think we want to hear. It reminds me of what I used to
hear in the 80s.  At that point, PAs and house soundmen were the big
concern.  Everyone would comment on the house sound, thinking that was what
we wanted to hear them talk about.  Very few at that time said much about
the performance unless asked directly.  So, I'd rather focus on the
performance and getting the music across to people.
	Cheryl is really concerned with letting people know that what we do is all
live and that we don't have any prerecorded samples we activate.  She is
usally bummed out that she forgot to say that during the set and my
response is always. 'Good.  Lecturing the audience on what makes us
'different' makes us look like we think we're better than everyone else
rather than different. Please keep forgetting to do that'.  The audience
doesn't care to be told from the stage what they're getting.  It ruins the
appreciation of what they're actually getting which is the experience of
the music.  After the set, we can tell them whatever we want to, and if
they're really interested, they'll ask.  That's the time to let them know
it's all live, done with this or that device, etc. etc. etc.

	We have a small, but dedicated crowd for our material.  They've heard the
raps before and they listen for the most part when we play.  But they're
also there to have a good time, so they'll talk to each other and order
drinks and generally socialize.  I think this is important, as they're not
there to pay rapt attention to every note etc, nor are they there to learn
anything.  If they do either, good for them.  If they just have a good
time, good for them.
	The theater stuff is a little different, as the guy who heads up the
company (the master maskmaker) always does a talk/lecture/Q&A session after
the end of the performance.  Talking to some members of the audience days
later, I found that his approach, though interesting, makes a night out to
see a performance feel like attending a class.  Many of the peopple I know
who came to see the plays felt obliged to stay and be 'taught'.  They all
said they did learn things and it was interesting, but they all seemed to
feel it wasn't what they went for  and felt somewhat uncomfortable with.
Most said things like, "I enjoyed it, but my friends wouldn't want to stick
around for somehting like that, so I'd never bring them".  
	So, setting and expectation matter.  If the audience is able to see any
part of this as entertainment, they tend to focus on that aspect when they
discuss it later (at least with me). For the record, we both appreciate
that, and are not the 'hide in the shadows' type of performers.  We both
dress and act the part while onstage.  I can count the number of people on
one hand who said to me "I went to hear.....last night."  They almost all
say "I went to see...".  So my comments come from the school of thought
that you can d a lot to put the music across by your presence and awareness
of you as a performer does not necessarily inhibit the audiences ability to
'get it'.

	
>My thought on this (and I'm probably opening a hell of a can of worms here):
>I honestly feel that too much importance is placed on the mechanics and
>craft of real-time looping by many of the musicians who use those tools.
	I wholehearted agree.  As musicians, we are enamoured of our craft and its
tools.  They don't call us gear heads and accuse of 'tech-talk' for no
reason.  We need to keep that element of who we are in proper perspective
(which varies from person to person and situation to situation).



>It's interesting to compare notes on our various experiences with the
>real-time loop thing, but ultimately I think any such discussion HAS to
>take into account the skill and the musicality of whoever (and whatever)
>is getting looped in the first place.  
	Again, I agree.  When we write, there are lots of cool loops we create.
We don't use them all, as we have a vision for the band and its sound
(music from dreams and nightmares, if anyone cares) and looping is just one
approach to achieve it.  The wire strung harp is another.  Bass and
straight electric guitar is another choice.  The end product is the music
and it has to work on its own, not because of some aspect of the technology
that helped birth it.


>It's my feeling that, ultimately, the music in and of itself needs to
>have a certain fundamental strength to it, REGARDLESS of the presence or
>absence of clever or unusual methodology.  
	AMEN to that.



Frank Gerace
Dreamchild
www.dreamchildmusic.com
> 

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Here's a better link:
http://www.knittingfactory.com/kfla/calendar/index.cfm --Still gotta search
a little, but it's 8 PM in the Alterknit Lounge . . .
Best of luck to Steve, a very musical guy!
Gary

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 30 12:31:07 2001
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Subject: As NYE approaches, a good sign for Loopers?
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 17:00:17 -0000
Organization: EarthLight Productions
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A large solar flare was observed just on the 28th, which although directed
away from the Earth was noticeable because of it's "long-duration and high
x-ray energy output".  However, the LD-related part is this: The flare was
in a formation on its own showing itself as a "rising arcade of hot loops
known as a loop prominence system."  The individual photos of this may be
found at http://www.spacew.com/astroalert.html - and they are indeed loops!

So perhaps from a faux-cosmological aspect, it could be said that the Sun's
given its relative blessing upon loopers and looping music?  Okay, it's a
stretch, but a fun one.  Check it out.

Stephen P. Goodman
EarthLight Productions
*
http://www.earthlight.net/Studios - The Free Loop of the Week!
http://www.earthlight.net/Gallery_Front - Cartoons and Illustrations!
http://www.earthlight.net/HiddenTrack - Cartoons via Medialine!

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 30 12:37:27 2001
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Subject: Re: Expectations, artifice, and a hell of a can of worms
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wow.....what a great bunch of thoughts and ideas.....im glad i didnt give up 
coffee!.....thanks all.....keep it comin.....:)m

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 30 12:51:34 2001
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Hi all,

In a message dated 12/30/01 8:02:30 AM, seahorse@channel1.com writes:

>I am in a band/duo that plays a dark, ethereal type of music.  We have
>vocals (Cheryl, the vocalist, uses a JamMan and samples parts of her
>singing to sing countermelodies to them and also loops and layers them
>in places) wire strung harp and electric bass (all Cheryl's domain) and I
>do the VG8 guitars using JamMan and Echoplex.  The material consist of
>songs and pieces, the presentation is gothy and artsy and is done primarily
>in clubs.  

And they have a very nice CD out as well. Frank was kind enough to trade 
discs with me a few months back and it has been one that I have enjoyed 
listening to (and puzzling over..."Gee, how'd they do THAT?") ever since --
even though it's of a particular genre that would normally fall way outside 
of my own "habitual" areas of interest, I was glad to have been introduced 
to their music. It's very unusual and inventive. I think their website is at: 

www.dreamchildmusic.com

I guess this is just another way of saying "thanks" again for offering the 
exchange Frank.

Best,

T. Killian

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 30 14:46:30 2001
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Subject: Re: Expectations, artifice, and a hell of a can of worms
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Having not looped out live for over 5 years now I can't say I miss the 
experience at
all.The sad fact is that audiences (small,large,paying, 
nonpaying,adoring,hateful,etc.)
are made up of humans that for the most part are used to a "non-real time" 
life experience being the norm for them in the modern world. Whether it's 
their food or
choice of art,etc. it's just the nature of how capable they are of "being 
here now" in
the midst of all this. For music particularly the truth of the matter is that 
if people
are uncomfortable at all with the listening experience it translates into 
dislike of
the artists work rather than a call to explore some evolution of thought on 
part of
the listener.After all..particularly if you paid money for the artwork in 
question shouldn't it be something you'll like or enjoy, even if you have to 
take it to the extreme of say Bill Murray's character in "Little Shop of 
Horrors", enjoying the 
truly unenjoyable as it where?:^) The perils and consequent musical thrills 
available
from looping are as present for me in my basement as they have ever been in 
any 
"live performance" situation I've encountered...minus of course driving, 
parking, and the increased chance of having my gear stolen/damaged/etc. I've 
played in configuarations from duos to 18 member ensembles and looping still 
does the most
for me in a musical sense. Money? I work in an industrial laundry for that, 
no need to
pimp out the best "personal truth through art" I can experience..... for a 
buck.

My  -2 cents worth.....happy new year.

                                                    bryan helm

                       

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 30 15:16:22 2001
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Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 11:19:34 -0800
From: Richard Zvonar <zvonar@zvonar.com>
Subject: Fwd: soundscape journal
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>Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 12:56:23 +0100
>From: Rahma Khazam <rahmak@wanadoo.fr>
>Subject: Please post this message on your list
>Sender: owner-cecdiscuss@concordia.ca
>To: acoustic-ecology@sfu.ca, cecdiscuss@concordia.ca,
>  SOUNDSCAPEUK@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, sonicartsnet@sheffield.ac.uk
>Reply-to: cecdiscuss@concordia.ca
>
>OUT NOW !!!
>                         EARSHOT NO.2
>the journal of the UK and Ireland Soundscape Community
>featuring contributions from R. Murray Schafer,
>Heidi Grundmann,  Bart Plantenga, Josephine Bosma
>and many more
>
>
>OUT SOON !!!
>                         EARSHOT NO. 3
>Sound and Architecture
>
>
>
>
>Keeping track of soundscape issues
>
>UKISC - UK and Ireland
>Soundscape Community
>
>earminded@ecosse.net


-- 

______________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD
(818) 788-2202
http://www.zvonar.com
http://RZCybernetics.com
http://www.cybmotion.com/aliaszone
http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?autostart=rz

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 30 16:24:48 2001
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Loopbozo@aol.com wrote on Sunday, December 30, 2001 10:50 AM
<Having not looped out live for over 5 years now I can't say I miss the
>experience at all.The sad fact is that audiences (small,large,paying,
>nonpaying,adoring,hateful,etc.)are made up of humans that for the most part
are used to a "non-real time"
>life experience being the norm for them in the modern world.

Yeah--like I said to Carl at Cakewalk, it's tough to compete with a
sequencer.  For that reason, I have decided to bring along 40 songs
sequenced on an MP3 player to satisfy the need for a fuller sound to my New
Year's gig (phone number 858-486-0764; no cover), but I still plan to forgo
computer backup and try to make the looper carry to brunt of my backup
needs.
And that is what I want.  I want these tools to help me in my attempt to
entertain.  Not everybody is as fascinated with delays and instrumental
music as I have become in my musical journey (my sweetheart says, "Not
everybody likes repetition"), but they all want to be entertained.  So I
will do the best job of that I can with the tools available to me tomorrow
night.  The flyer for my gig doesn't say "looping", or even "one man band",
so all they expect is live music (it does say, "50's, Rock, Popular and
folk", so they can expect that).  The backup is for me, not them--they don't
care about the music (as such), but more about having a good time.  My job
is to have a good time with them (as MC) and provide a soundtrack for that
experience.  In this case, it's gonna be acoustic guitar, vocal and drum
machine.   We'll see if they notice the Echoplex.
And for those of you who can make it, be advised that the "buffet" is
actually a potluck, starting at 7 PM, so bring a "canned" loop dish
(Spaghetti-O's?) 8^/
Respect,
Gary
PS  AN-DRE!  AN-DRE!  AN-DRE!  AN-DRE!  AN-DRE!  AN-DRE!

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Subject: Re: Expectations, artifice, and a hell of a can of worms
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 12:44:16 -0800
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>I've
>played in configuarations from duos to 18 member ensembles and looping 
>still
>does the most
>for me in a musical sense. Money? I work in an industrial laundry for that,
>no need to
>pimp out the best "personal truth through art" I can experience..... for a
>buck.
>
>My  -2 cents worth.....happy new year.
>
>                                                     bryan helm
>

I'm one of those "amateurs by choice" - my day job affords me the liberty 
and resources (if not all the time I would like) to practice my art :-) 
without burdening it with the weight of responsibility to provide a source 
of income. As such, most of my looping is enjoyed by an audience of me. I'm 
fortunate also to be in a band that is quite appreciative of my loopiness, 
and has embraced it as an element of our overall sound and approach to 
improvisation as well as composition. Only in select instances do we play 
anything entirely dependent on looping. This unburdens the looping per se 
even further, providing me an outlet yet avoiding my having to stave my 
emotional involvement with it on an audience's response (a vulnerable spot 
to put oneself in anyway, as evident in the posting that got this thread 
started... hmmm, hard to tell which one that was).

I admit I sometimes envy those professionals (used in a strict sense, not 
blowing on cinders here;-) for having been fortunate to pursue a life 
calling, that is, without the duality inherent in a dayjob/ passionate hobby 
arrangement. But then again, there's admittedly a lot of dualities to be 
dealt with in a professional musician's life, and I did start off by 
counting blessings here...

I just wanted to say I've been thoroughly enjoying the past few days of 
spending a little more time listening in on a few truly wonderful 
discussions here, with real insights, observations, wisdom and experience 
being so gracefully shared. Loopers' Delight is to me a joy to be a part of 
and an example for any public forum. (Again with the counting of 
blessings..;-)

Best wishes to all for a happy, healthy, humanly safe and musically 
adventurous 2002.

Nic



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"Stephen P. Goodman" wrote:

> A large solar flare was observed just on the 28th, which although directed
> away from the Earth was noticeable because of it's "long-duration and high
> x-ray energy output".  However, the LD-related part is this: The flare was
> in a formation on its own showing itself as a "rising arcade of hot loops
> known as a loop prominence system."  The individual photos of this may be
> found at http://www.spacew.com/astroalert.html - and they are indeed loops!
> ...

whoa

awesome solar loopiness. makes one feel rather, er, small and insignificant...

lance g.


From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 30 21:34:46 2001
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Subject: Gig Spam--No Starr on Ztar on NYE
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This message is to alert anyone who was planning on coming to my New Year's
Eve gig in Poway to see Harvey Starr sit in on Ztar--he has informed me that
social commitments are preventing him from attending.  However, I do look
forward to the opportunity to jam it on out with him, and should anything
come of that (gigs, etc) I will be sure to post to the list.  Incidentally,
he updated my instrument (new motherboard) so now none of the sysx will
load--gotta reprogram all my patches, including my Echoplex control setup.
It worked really well before, however--controlling the EDP from the synth
side using note on info, then recording electric guitar (it's a doubleneck)
and/or synth stuff (bass, drums, pads, whatever).
Ciao,
Gary

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hi loopers,

anyone who's going to be in nyc tomorrow night is welcome to come say hi.
i'll be looping noise with repeater, mo-fx, casio sk-1, headrush (maybe),
feedback, and whatever else develops. if interested, see http://aex.org/nye/
for details. thanks!

jon/skincage

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Sun Dec 30 23:45:23 2001
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From: philip raath <philraath@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Expectations, artifice, and a hell of a can of worms
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been thinking about some of the relevant issues in
this thread in the last couple of days...

this weekend was very important for me because it was
the first time i played out w/ looping gear and
whatnot. stage fright is something that plagued me
most of my life until suddenly it just disappeared
about 3 months ago.

 i was invited to play at a party where a bunch of
people would be jamming and maybe a few people would
show up and listen...a few people turned out to be
about 100! had i previous knowledge that i would be
putting myself on display in front of all these people
i would probably have flipped out, but i was so caught
up in playing that i hardly noticed the number swell,
and once i did notice i was glad they were all there. 

as we know, when yer looping in public you always run
extreme risk of fucking up in front of people, and
that always scared the hell out of me before. but i
had never felt more comfortable playing in front of
people. this was largely to do with the fact that i
really "know my gear" and am comfortable actually
performing upon it, and i suppose there was a
subconcious realization that the fact that i was doing
something different freed me from many audience
expectations.

when we first started playing the other musicians were
quite intriqued by what i was doing, and i'm finding
quickly that fellow musicians are much more interested
in how sounds are being created, and much quicker to
judge the validity of such. 

most were very excited when i showed them the
processing i was using, but i did have one fellow tell
me that i was losing all the soul in my music by
letting all this gear taint it. btw: i was running
through a boss ds1, dd5, a DOD d12 (w/fs300), and a
boss rps-10. i chose to leave the boomerang at home
because i rely on it heavily and wanted the challenge
of interacting with my other gear without the 'rang.

i'll admit i was somewhat put off by the fellow
dissing my use of gear. i understand what he means,
but gear is not neccesarily automated. as we have been
saying, one key to making this exciting is the level
of interaction that many of us have with our gear,
literally performing upon it.

once the crowd showed up, i don't think most were
actually aware that i was playing guitar, or that the
ambient loops were coming from me. there were 2 djs
playing along side and i was in full ambient/noise
mode. but once the djs took a break i played for about
45 minutes on my own w/ more melody and structure and
plenty of people seemed very intrigued by the sounds
and the looping. at least 7-8 people came up to ask
how i was "doing that" and looked over my gear w/
plenty of curiosity. pretty sure most of these people
were not musicians.

i knew i was going to be playing with a bunch of
classic rock guys and went in with the express purpose
of disturbing them. but i was thrilled that most were
really into it, with the one exception. however, when
i unplugged/plugged my guitar back in and looped the
explosive crackle of such, and then proceed to
manipulate this into a very ugly, noisy rythm loop,
they just told me to "stop...now...please...". thought
that was pretty funny, even though i really liked the
loop. 

in summation: i've known for a good while now that i
get extreme satisfaction from interacting with gear as
instruments themselves, and the people who sat close
and watched me do so as they listened to the changes
seem to really enjoy both aspects of the process.

2: musicians are much more critical of process than
non-musician audiences. some want to moralize the
process, and when you put your intellect and heart
into this, it sucks to hear that. 

thanks for reading all this if ya did. it matters to
me that we have this lovely little community of
loopers, and this performance (even if it was just at
a party) was a watershed fer me, and i felt it
deserved sharing here. 

peace,

happy new year, hope yer all blessed,

phil

=====
"Compassion is the sometimes fatal capacity for feeling what
it's like to live inside somebody else's skin.
 It is the knowledge that there can never really be any
peace and joy for me until there is peace and joy finally 
for you too." 
                                   -Frederick Buechner
"The jewel is in the lotus."

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Wow...all I can really say is thanks to both dt and Andre for the in-depth 
responses.  One thing, and there are many, I really love about LD is threads 
like this where we can freely exchange ideas and see how others interpret 
this form inwhich we work.
Now onto the points:  David, I surely recognize your point:
>>
> > i'm not so sure about that.
> > these days, it seems there's been a kinf of amplified resistance towards
> > 'challenge/surprise', in the ongoing musical balancing act 'twixt that 
>half
> > of the equation & the other: that of 'fulfilling expectations'.
and I have experienced the same.  But it has been my greater experience that 
the audiences which I play to almost need to be challenged and taken to some 
new listening experience.  Granted, my core audience is different and most 
likely smaller than yours, but I have found this to be true.
When I first started doing loop shows, I was using a drum machine to handle 
the rhythmic sequences.  I later added a 2nd drum machine and wonderful 
sequenced polyrhythms to put my loopage against.  My set was made of some 
solo bass/loopings stuff and then some more "complex" things using the drum 
machines.  I found that during the solo bass/looping part of the show the 
audience was rapt in attention.  Perhaps part of this was a "what the heck 
is he doing?" interest...but an interest nonetheless.  Once the drum 
machines kicked in about 80% of the audience was lost.....they went to 
sundry conversations, to fetch beverage...or just up and left completely.  
This perplexed me for some time.  Seeking higher consul, I learned of a 
general distrust in our audiences for the technological aspects of what we 
do.  Say what you want about the Madonna tour or NiN, but I think a large 
number of those audiences really do not, nor want to, know about the acres 
of technology necessary to bring those (same, repeated) shows off night 
after night.
My own looping shows are MUCH smaller, and more intimate...as is probably 
the case for most of us on LD.  In that case in it much more difficult to 
hide the technology of our process.  What I try to do is bring some humanity 
to that technology. I did not mean to imply that, by explaining or bringing 
the audience to the looping event, the gig should become a lecture or clinic 
on looping techniques, but to merely help point out to an audience who might 
be already wary of flashing blinking lights, that these are tools which 
impart, or can impart, a level of humanity into a complex musical equation.  
This might be by making a blunder...an obvious train wreck and then taking 
the audience thru the fast track explanation of what's going on...not going 
too deep, just enough to let them know that the looper-box is really just a 
tool (read:extension) of the musician using it.
Which brings us to Andre's tale of the mediocre musican and the ultimate 
rig.  I have always believed that is not the gear you use, but how youuse 
it.  Our creativity, and our abilities and talents on our chosen instruments 
govern the depth ( emotional, spiritual, intellectual etc.) of our artistic 
expressions.  We all get GAS, sure...but in the end isn't it better to keep 
it simple?  There might be a line of thought for the person who atarted this 
thread (Newbie)...keep it simple.
By the way, I dropped the drum machines from my set-up, and now play the 
percussive parts on my bass, into my JamMan, and take it from there.  
Audiences love that!  They get to witness someone mangling a bass (aligator 
clips, chopsticks , mutes etc.) and getting some wonderfully crazy sounds 
out it!
Certainly I have could have continued using sequences, but the directness of 
inviting the audience to witness, and sometimes take part in, the creative 
cycle greatly enhances my performance.
>
>Max: Are there specific venues/types of gigs/types of audiences that
>you've found to be surprisingly open (or opposed) to doing your thing?
>(I'm also really curious as to venues you like for doing a solo live
>looping thing, here in LA...)
Andre--- I haven't yet ventured too much into LA Propper (as if there is 
such a place), as a solo player yet.  Have done shows in the Valley, Santa 
Clarita, Lancaster and Bakersfield.  Pretty much coffee houses, Art 
Galleries, Restaurant/cafes...and the crafts show/fair thing, which is 
really very nice.  In thisenvironment, the intimacy I was speaking of really 
goes to the fore.  So much so that one of my "tricks" of late has been to 
ask the audience to submit some chords ("pick a letter between A and G..."), 
which then I throw together into a  progression and begin an improvisation 
with loops.  Of course, someone alwys seems to call out "C#minor"...but then 
I know there's a musician in the house.
One thing I would like to bring out now is that all this chat has been in 
regard to "solo" looping.  I do a lot of this, but one thing it has 
enlightened me to is how much I miss the interaction with other musicans.  
On the Solo Bass Looping Tour this summer, Rick Walker, Steve Lawson, and 
Michael Manring all played, as a trio, with their JamMan's all sync'd via 
MIDI.  That's three or four loopers at once, and to throw it all sideways 
Rick and Steve had DL4s (Steve even borrowed mine one night to use TWO DL4s) 
running non-sync'd!  To see and hear that (and it was all improvised) was a 
mind-blowing experience.  A brilliant exhibition of the musicians' skills 
(namely: restraint!!)...and some wonderful, magical music.
Are there others out there on this list who work with multiple loopers 
(that's players, not machines)?
This has been a great thread.....very inspiring as I am in the moment of 
some introspection regarding my own work and approaches......
Max



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  Listers,
  A tremendous "Thankyou!" to everyone who has responded and/or
  replied to my and other people's Newbie questions. I've
  been amazed at the depth of people's observations about loop-
  ing and the live "experience". I'm really looking forward to
  2002 and diving into the looping deep end.
  Best Wishes and Good Luck to you all in 2002!
  Sincerely,
  Chris Olden





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Subject: Re: Expectations, artifice, and a hell of a can of worms
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> 2: musicians are much more critical of process than non-musician
audiences. some want to moralize the  process, and when you put your
intellect and heart into this, it sucks to hear that.

It's really amusing when someone compliments you on your tone, technique,
content etc. Then takes a look at your gear and says you need a tube amp,
and to get rid of all the rack stuff to clear up your sound... (I've been
mostly direct inject into a rack/mixer/power amp affair into full-range
speakers for years... I just recently returned to a simple pedalboard/amp
setup out of laziness.)

I'm kinda with DT and Frank Gerace on this... I like a performance to be
taken at face value. I don't like to talk about the tech stuff until maybe
after the set. At that point, they may be sorry they asked! 8-)

Best,
-Miko

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Subject: Re: Expectations, artifice, and a hell of a can of worms
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andré writes:
>Max Valentino spake:
>> >Believe it or not, most audiences
>> >DO want to be challenged, whether they are cognizent of this or not.

>and David Torn did quip:
>> i'm not so sure about that.
>> these days, it seems there's been a kinf of amplified resistance towards
>> 'challenge/surprise', in the ongoing musical balancing act 'twixt that
>half
>> of the equation & the other: that of 'fulfilling expectations'.

>I'm wondering if either Max or David (both of you, ideally) could expand
>on these respective points of view.  Because I'm curious as to any
>specific experiences you might have had which would have led to the
>formation of your current points of view.
no, my response is just the 'feeling' that i get..... esp. as i haven't 
*played* too many live-gigs, this past year..... (which, btw, i may change in 
2002).....

>David: Would you say that some of the feedback to the Splattercell
>material has impacted your feelings regarding the percieved resistance
>to challenge or surprise?  I'm thinking specifically of fusion and prog
>fans who might have been expecting another "David Torn album of burning
>guitar playing"?
maybe just a little bit; though, to be fair, i did expect some of that 
type-of-reaction from 'established fans'.....
(as you know, the only real 'departure' for me ---vis-a-vis the splattercell 
mat'l--- was not musical, but merely the *name* change.....)

>Or maybe some people in the dj/dance world who might
>look dubiously upon a schooled instrumentalist (let alone an electric
>guitarist) trying to make a contribution to "their" sphere of music?
no; though most of the support comes primarily from less-commercial corners 
of that particular room, that segment has been relatively welcoming.

>> OTOH, see: madonna's 'drowned world' tour, or
>> any NiN show:
>> nobody seems to *know* nor *care* that it's 'canned'.....

>In both of these cases, I think a big part of the equation is that both
>of these shows are very, very theatrical presentations, by celebrities
>with significant cults of personality.  So the finer points of what's
>live and what's prerecorded aren't at the forefront of the audience's
>minds; it's more a question of the overall spectacle of the thing, of
>which the music is but one part.
truth.
nevertheless,
the audience doesn't *care* to know how the music is achieved --- however the 
quality of the music's effect might be judged, *that* seems to be the 
audience's primary concern.

>Max says:
>> >By "walking the audience" thru the whole looping process, you somehow
>> >involve them in what is happening, and at that point...you have 'em!

>DT says:
>> i'm always hoping for some  kind of ineffable transformation to take
>place in
>> the process of performance, both for me and for the audience..... at
>least,
>> something more subtle than what might otherwise occur as a result of
>the
>> addition of whatall might be construed as a 'lecture'.....

>and also says:
>> but --- while for us the *process* of looping may be important, why would
>> that process be important to a listening audience? --- unless, of course,
>> that audience is comprised primarily of musicians..... which is another
>> story, altogether.

>My thought on this (and I'm probably opening a hell of a can of worms here):
>I honestly feel that too much importance is placed on the mechanics and
>craft of real-time looping by many of the musicians who use those tools.
between us, here on LD, that's all fine w/me!
but: in practice --- i'm more interested in the intention & content of the 
music.
and: it kinda reminds me of the gtr-player gear/technique syndromes, which 
can be so very boring & stultifying.....

>Here's an older quote from David: "Looping isn't an effect: it's your
>playing, only more of it."
i said that?
good-o!
*-)

>Mull that over for a second.  YOUR playing.
>It's interesting to compare notes on our various experiences with the
>real-time loop thing, but ultimately I think any such discussion HAS to
>take into account the skill and the musicality of whoever (and whatever)
>is getting looped in the first place.  
.....whichall is (or, should be, imo) very personal stuff.....

>That's something that can't be reduced to a genre of music, a style of
>audience interaction, a performance venue, or a specific piece of gear.
digya.

>It's my feeling that, ultimately, the music in and of itself needs to
>have a certain fundamental strength to it, REGARDLESS of the presence or
>absence of clever or unusual methodology.  
digya!

>If the intrinsic interest or value of a musical performance rests SOLELY
>in the fact that it's employing real-time looping...
..... or any other technique/methodology, for that matter.....

>then I think that's
>a pretty dubious foundation.
..... unless, of course, you (as a musician/performer/composer) are 
absorbing/rejecting that foundation to be incorporated/avoided as a tool for 
your own, eventual musical abuses.....
which is to say that there still may be much value, there, of a specifically 
educational cast & hue.....

>I've heard a lot of live looping that would be pretty unremarkable if it
>wasn't for the fact that it was happenig in real time.  And even then,
>it's been about 30 years since the first Fripp and Eno record helped
>usher that approach into the "popular consciousness" (and longer still
>since Terry Riley and others started gigging with the stuff in public),
>or Jaco's looping solo in the middle of Joni Mitchell gigs.  
jaco did that?

>Sampling a phrase live and playing over it isn't exactly state of the
>art anymore, and although a looping performer can often still get away
>with the "wow, I've never seen that!" effect on an unsuspecting
>audience, there HAS to be more to it then just the novelty of looping if
>you want to bring them further along, into the realm of having a serious
>musical experience.
yeah, albeit i'd say that -these days- it has become clearer to me that, as 
an element of performance & composition,  i *am* interested in the audience 
hearing/feeling/sensing the technology & methodology of live-looping, 
certainly insofar as it might mirror my view of the inexorable & fracturing 
plasticity of 'things'.....

>This is NOT a criticism of Max's "lecture" approach, because clearly it
>works for him.  But I have to assume that a big part of the appeal of
>his live show, and a big part of what makes it work, involves Max's
>playing in and of itself, apart from the lecture factor.  Because (aside
>from his having a great reputation) I'm simply not convinced that
>showing the audience the mechanics of the thing, in and of itself, is
>enough to bring them along every time.
me, neither --- that may, also, have something to do w/max's obvious ability 
to *present*, and to the projection of his persona.

>Same thing with Steve Lawson; a number of his tunes are very
>straightforward in terms of "looping technique," but it doesn't matter,
>because his playing is so strong and musical, and he uses the technology
>in a way that augments and extends the foundation of his playing, far
>beyond simply being "clever" or "interesting" to an unfamiliar listener.
right!

>And I think it's the same thing, ironically enough, with someone like
>Torn, who uses a much more elaborate approach, both in terms of the
>amount of gear
huh? i use a 5-space rack, and a buncha pedals!
maybe it's the 3 amps (and the miles of cable) that make it seem so 
elaborate.....
*-)
 
>and in terms of how far the gear is being "pushed".  But
>he KNOWS that gear, and knows how to "play" it in a very musical manner.
> (Of course, his being one serious mo-fo of a guitarist means that any
>looping of said guitar will be off to a good start to begin with.)  
thanks for that, a!

>On the other hand, a mediocre musician can plug into the most hardcore
>looping gear on Earth, and give the most entertaining, insightful
>introduction to the audience, but that alone isn't going to make them
>sound any less mediocre.  If anything, it'll probably compound that
>mediocrity with every successive overdub!
right, though ---
there's certainly no dearth of musicians-pursuing-and-perfecting-mediocrity, 
at the 'top' of their fields.....

>An unusual or esoteric approach (i.e. looping) might lure a listener's
>curiosity, but it's a solid, innate, consistent musicality that will
>hold that listener and reward their curiosity.  Whether that musicality
>takes the form of playing a bass guitar or tweaking the LFO rate on the
>fifth effects processor in a rack shouldn't matter.  
>True, not every audience is going to be equally receptive to every type
>of music.  Play an ambient drone back to back with a James Brown tune,
>and you will probably get a "stronger," more "immediate" reaction from
>people with the latter selection.  But that doesn't mean that people
>can't hear the former one.  And it doesn't mean that a good ambient act
>can't clean the floor with a bad funk band.
currently, my floors are *somewhat* clean, already.....

>And sure, there's a hurdle to be overcome in learning how to coordinate
>every additional piece of hardware on stage, and how to integrate that
>hardware into a graceful musical (and visual) presentation on stage. 
>But is that really so much different than an organist pulling different
>stops, or a turntablist rummaging through the crate and changing records
>mid-set, or a percussionist switching to a different instrument, or a
>keyboardist switching to a different synth and scrolling through patches?
no, it's not that different --- just a bit less 'tangible'.....

>Anyway...
>Hopefully some of this makes some sort of sense to someone.  Maybe I'm
>overly idealistic about this.
>I'm sure being on day 3 of caffeine
>withdrawl has something to do with it too...
..... and i just finished my second dbl-espresso of the day.....
best,
dt / splattercell

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anyone got any experiance with these ???
i would like some comments on the device, i am interested in filters, =
harmonizing /pitch shift and of course other effects
what 'weirder' effects does it have ??
thanks

David=20

one less than none
http://www.onelessthannone.co.uk

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<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2>anyone got any experiance =
with these=20
???</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2>i would like some comments =
on the=20
device, i am interested in filters, harmonizing /pitch shift and of =
course other=20
effects</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2>what 'weirder' effects =
does it have=20
??</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2>thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2>David </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2>one less than none<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.onelessthannone.co.uk">http://www.onelessthannone.co.u=
k</A></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Subject: Boomerang + Version 2.a3  phrase sampler NEW ****** $350.00 *******NEW NEW NEW
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AFTER CHRISTMAS SALE!!!!

NEWEST VERSION 2.a3=20

Brand New boomerang +=20

phrase sampler 4 meg version / 2 loops
DEALER full waranty, Manual power supply.
15.00 shipping pay pal accepted. =20

Best looper available easy to use.

Email kroll@vrinter.net or call 610-462-3627 9am -9pm est


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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>AFTER CHRISTMAS SALE!!!!</FONT><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>NEWEST VERSION 2.a3 </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Brand New boomerang + </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>phrase sampler 4 meg version / 2 =
loops</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>DEALER&nbsp;full waranty, Manual power=20
supply.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>15.00 shipping pay pal accepted.&nbsp;=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Best&nbsp;looper available easy to=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Email <A=20
href=3D"mailto:kroll@vrinter.net">kroll@vrinter.net</A> or call =
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-9pm est</FONT></DIV></DIV>
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At 10:04 AM 12/31/01 EST, dt wrote:
>esp. as i haven't 
>*played* too many live-gigs, this past year..... (which, btw, i may change
in 
>2002).....

Keep us posted!

>>David: Would you say that some of the feedback to the Splattercell
>>material has impacted your feelings regarding the percieved resistance
>>to challenge or surprise?  I'm thinking specifically of fusion and prog
>>fans who might have been expecting another "David Torn album of burning
>>guitar playing"?
>maybe just a little bit; though, to be fair, i did expect some of that 
>type-of-reaction from 'established fans'.....

Something that occurred to me when I read dt's response to Max was that
it's not exactly a level playing field here. Most of the
comments/perspectives offered in this thread have been either from
less-recognised loopers who're trying to bring their music to a larger
audience, or from more established musicians *not* known for looping who're
trying to incorporate looping into their oeuvre. In either case, there's
the element of unfamiliarity: an audience responding (or not) to a new face
or perceiving a change in direction/philosophy/taste from someone they
*thought* they knew. OTOH, someone like David Torn is much more of a known
quantity, not in the sense that the *music* will be at all predictable, but
due to the fact that he's built his reputation specifically on being a
sonic adventurer, a crosser of stylistic boundaries and a consummate
improvisor. DT's audience has learned to expect the unexpected; and as
such, audience responses will naturally be very different than they would
be for those of someone less associated with innovative genre-busting. Of
course, it's taken him years of work to establish such a reputation, and it
still doesn't guarantee immunity from people saying things like "Oh, why
can't he do more stuff like 'Cloud About Mercury'?" (or Polytown or fill in
the blank...), but chances are, someone who goes to a Torn performance (or
purchases a recording, for that matter) has a pretty good idea of what
they're in for. I found myself in agreement with BOTH Max's and DT's
perspectives, as opposite as they may have seemed.

>>Max says:
>>> >By "walking the audience" thru the whole looping process, you somehow
>>> >involve them in what is happening, and at that point...you have 'em!
>
>>DT says:
>>> i'm always hoping for some  kind of ineffable transformation to take
>>place in
>>> the process of performance, both for me and for the audience..... at
>>least,
>>> something more subtle than what might otherwise occur as a result of
>>the
>>> addition of whatall might be construed as a 'lecture'.....

Like Miko, I'd have to side with DT and Frank Gerace on that one, although
I can think of two specific exceptions: 1) I saw Adrian Belew right after
he got his first EH-16 (early 80's 'Twang Bar King' tour), and he was so
enthused about the thing, he gave an impromptu demonstration of what it
could do, overtly building and reversing a loop, and then incorporating it
into the next tune. and 2) a performance by Belgium's Logos Duo
<http://www.logosfoundation.org/logosduo.html> at last summer's Ought-1
festival which featured an instrument so unique that a
demonstration/lecture approach was immently suitable and didn't seem at all
didactic. (It was a large pyramid-shaped sensor array thing that responded
to body movements; unlike a theremin it wasn't position-sensitive, but
rather, velocity sensitive, and the performers were positioned *inside* the
field. Without some sort of explanation it would have gone right over our
heads, but the presentation was fascinating, both informative and
entertaining.)

>..... and i just finished my second dbl-espresso of the day.....

Mmmm!

-t-


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kroll@vrinter.net wrote---
AFTER CHRISTMAS SALE!!!! NEWEST VERSION 2.a3 Brand New boomerang + phrase 
sampler 4 meg version / 2 loops DEALER full waranty, Manual power supply. 
15.00 shipping pay pal accepted. Best looper available easy to use. Email 
kroll@vrinter.net or call 610-462-3627 9am -9pm est...

"Best looper available easy to use"???

I want to go ahead and open a new can of worms...
I first owned a boomerang, i cant believe that i wanted so bad to get into 
looping that after two years of getting rid of my boomerang i just dove in 
and got a pair of EDPs... You would think the boomerang would have completely 
killed such a thirst in the first place... I feel that the boomerang is an 
expensive toy and will keep loopers who purchase one at home with looping and 
never try displaying their talents... My dis-satisfaction came with it 
clipping exremely, it was all around noisy, and the biggest thing was that it 
could not be synced to other looping units and / or MIDI... now i would never 
have said a word until this claim was made: "Best looper available easy to 
use"??? I'm sure i will irritate several individuals with my attack on the 
boomerang, but this is the first e-group that i've ever participated in where 
i look forward to reading EVERY SINGLE post! And i was irritated with such a 
claim by someone selling a $400 toy -vs- the $2400 worth of gear in my rack 
that smokes the boomerang like a twig! please do not post such false claims 
to make a sale to unsuspecting looper candidates. the boomerang can be very 
cool to the right people but the sales pitch was a bunch of........ 

"Best looper available easy to use"???????????

Oh wait, i guess it is easy to use...

I invite the arguments by anyone, just please don't hate me forever, i tried 
expressing my opinions with out making false claims like a salesman... so to 
not be a total jerk, i rewrote the add and took out the BS, this price does 
sound like a great deal though:)

kroll@vrinter.net wrote---
AFTER CHRISTMAS SALE!!!! NEWEST VERSION 2.a3 Brand New boomerang + phrase 
sampler 4 meg version / 2 loops DEALER full waranty, Manual power supply. 
$350.00 + 15.00 shipping pay pal accepted. Email kroll@vrinter.net or call 
610-462-3627 9am -9pm est...

Thanks,
Gregory Bruce Campbell
<A HREF="www.kickstartchubby.com">www.kickstartchubby.com</A>

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#fffff0"><FONT  SIZE=1>kroll@vrinter.net wrote---<BR>
AFTER CHRISTMAS SALE!!!! NEWEST VERSION 2.a3 Brand New boomerang + phrase sampler 4 meg version / 2 loops DEALER full waranty, Manual power supply. 15.00 shipping pay pal accepted. <B>Best looper available easy to use.</B> Email kroll@vrinter.net or call 610-462-3627 9am -9pm est...<BR>
<BR>
"Best looper available easy to use"???<BR>
<BR>
I want to go ahead and open a new can of worms...<BR>
I first owned a boomerang, i cant believe that i wanted so bad to get into looping that after two years of getting rid of my boomerang i just dove in and got a pair of EDPs... You would think the boomerang would have completely killed such a thirst in the first place... I feel that the boomerang is an expensive toy and will keep loopers who purchase one at home with looping and never try displaying their talents... My dis-satisfaction came with it clipping exremely, it was all around noisy, and the biggest thing was that it could not be synced to other looping units and / or MIDI... now i would never have said a word until this claim was made: <B>"Best looper available easy to use"???</B> I'm sure i will irritate several individuals with my attack on the boomerang, but this is the first e-group that i've ever participated in where i look forward to reading EVERY SINGLE post! And i was irritated with such a claim by someone selling a $400 toy -vs- the $2400 worth of gear in my rack that smokes the boomerang like a twig! please do not post such false claims to make a sale to unsuspecting looper candidates. the boomerang can be very cool to the right people but the sales pitch was a bunch of........ <BR>
<BR>
<B>"<U>Best looper available</U> easy to use"???????????<BR>
<BR>
</B>Oh wait, i guess it is easy to use...<BR>
<BR>
I invite the arguments by anyone, just please don't hate me forever, i tried expressing my opinions with out making false claims like a salesman... so to not be a total jerk, i rewrote the add and took out the BS, this price does sound like a great deal though:)<BR>
<BR>
<B>kroll@vrinter.net wrote---<BR>
AFTER CHRISTMAS SALE!!!! NEWEST VERSION 2.a3 Brand New boomerang + phrase sampler 4 meg version / 2 loops DEALER full waranty, Manual power supply. $350.00 + 15.00 shipping pay pal accepted. Email kroll@vrinter.net or call 610-462-3627 9am -9pm est...</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Thanks,<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>Greg</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B>ory Bruce </FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>Campbell</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
<A HREF="www.kickstartchubby.com">www.kickstartchubby.com</A></FONT></HTML>

--part1_6.21acae4c.2961fa83_boundary--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 31 13:39:38 2001
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From: Andy Soto <smaug@servidor.unam.mx>
Subject: Re: Boomerang + Version 2.a3  phrase sampler NEW ******
  $350.00 *******NEW NE...
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    There are some of us who like Lo fi!! you donīt need to MIDI sync every
piece of gear you own, not to mention that not every looper on this list has
two grand to spend on expensive toys...

    I think that the Rang is a killer  Looper.


A+






At 12:29 p.m. 31/12/01 EST, you wrote:
>kroll@vrinter.net wrote---
>AFTER CHRISTMAS SALE!!!! NEWEST VERSION 2.a3 Brand New boomerang + phrase 
>sampler 4 meg version / 2 loops DEALER full waranty, Manual power supply. 
>15.00 shipping pay pal accepted. Best looper available easy to use. Email 
>kroll@vrinter.net or call 610-462-3627 9am -9pm est...
>
>"Best looper available easy to use"???
>
>I want to go ahead and open a new can of worms...
>I first owned a boomerang, i cant believe that i wanted so bad to get into 
>looping that after two years of getting rid of my boomerang i just dove in 
>and got a pair of EDPs... You would think the boomerang would have completely 
>killed such a thirst in the first place... I feel that the boomerang is an 
>expensive toy and will keep loopers who purchase one at home with looping and 
>never try displaying their talents... My dis-satisfaction came with it 
>clipping exremely, it was all around noisy, and the biggest thing was that it 
>could not be synced to other looping units and / or MIDI... now i would never 
>have said a word until this claim was made: "Best looper available easy to 
>use"??? I'm sure i will irritate several individuals with my attack on the 
>boomerang, but this is the first e-group that i've ever participated in where 
>i look forward to reading EVERY SINGLE post! And i was irritated with such a 
>claim by someone selling a $400 toy -vs- the $2400 worth of gear in my rack 
>that smokes the boomerang like a twig! please do not post such false claims 
>to make a sale to unsuspecting looper candidates. the boomerang can be very 
>cool to the right people but the sales pitch was a bunch of........ 
>
>"Best looper available easy to use"???????????
>
>Oh wait, i guess it is easy to use...
>
>I invite the arguments by anyone, just please don't hate me forever, i tried 
>expressing my opinions with out making false claims like a salesman... so to 
>not be a total jerk, i rewrote the add and took out the BS, this price does 
>sound like a great deal though:)
>
>kroll@vrinter.net wrote---
>AFTER CHRISTMAS SALE!!!! NEWEST VERSION 2.a3 Brand New boomerang + phrase 
>sampler 4 meg version / 2 loops DEALER full waranty, Manual power supply. 
>$350.00 + 15.00 shipping pay pal accepted. Email kroll@vrinter.net or call 
>610-462-3627 9am -9pm est...
>
>Thanks,
>Gregory Bruce Campbell
><A HREF="www.kickstartchubby.com">www.kickstartchubby.com</A>
><HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#fffff0"><FONT
SIZE=1>kroll@vrinter.net wrote---<BR>
>AFTER CHRISTMAS SALE!!!! NEWEST VERSION 2.a3 Brand New boomerang + phrase
sampler 4 meg version / 2 loops DEALER full waranty, Manual power supply.
15.00 shipping pay pal accepted. <B>Best looper available easy to use.</B>
Email kroll@vrinter.net or call 610-462-3627 9am -9pm est...<BR>
><BR>
>"Best looper available easy to use"???<BR>
><BR>
>I want to go ahead and open a new can of worms...<BR>
>I first owned a boomerang, i cant believe that i wanted so bad to get into
looping that after two years of getting rid of my boomerang i just dove in
and got a pair of EDPs... You would think the boomerang would have
completely killed such a thirst in the first place... I feel that the
boomerang is an expensive toy and will keep loopers who purchase one at home
with looping and never try displaying their talents... My dis-satisfaction
came with it clipping exremely, it was all around noisy, and the biggest
thing was that it could not be synced to other looping units and / or
MIDI... now i would never have said a word until this claim was made:
<B>"Best looper available easy to use"???</B> I'm sure i will irritate
several individuals with my attack on the boomerang, but this is the first
e-group that i've ever participated in where i look forward to reading EVERY
SINGLE post! And i was irritated with such a claim by someone selling a $400
toy -vs- the $2400 worth of gear in my !
>rack that smokes the boomerang like a twig! please do not post such false
claims to make a sale to unsuspecting looper candidates. the boomerang can
be very cool to the right people but the sales pitch was a bunch of........ <BR>
><BR>
><B>"<U>Best looper available</U> easy to use"???????????<BR>
><BR>
></B>Oh wait, i guess it is easy to use...<BR>
><BR>
>I invite the arguments by anyone, just please don't hate me forever, i
tried expressing my opinions with out making false claims like a salesman...
so to not be a total jerk, i rewrote the add and took out the BS, this price
does sound like a great deal though:)<BR>
><BR>
><B>kroll@vrinter.net wrote---<BR>
>AFTER CHRISTMAS SALE!!!! NEWEST VERSION 2.a3 Brand New boomerang + phrase
sampler 4 meg version / 2 loops DEALER full waranty, Manual power supply.
$350.00 + 15.00 shipping pay pal accepted. Email kroll@vrinter.net or call
610-462-3627 9am -9pm est...</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000"
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial"
LANG="0"></B><BR>
><BR>
></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=1
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Thanks,<BR>
></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=4
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>Greg</FONT><FONT
COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B>ory Bruce </FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000"
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial"
LANG="0"><B>Campbell</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:
#fffff0" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
><A HREF="www.kickstartchubby.com">www.kickstartchubby.com</A></FONT></HTML>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 31 14:09:12 2001
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From: KkstrtChby@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 13:34:39 EST
Subject: Re: Boomerang + Version 2.a3  phrase sampler NEW ****** $350.00 *******NEW NE...
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In a message dated 12/31/2001 12:08:03 PM Central Standard Time,=20
smaug@servidor.unam.mx writes:


>=20
>=20
>=20
>     There are some of us who like Lo fi!! you don=B4t need to MIDI sync ev=
ery
> piece of gear you own, not to mention that not every looper on this list=20
> has
> two grand to spend on expensive toys...
>=20
>     I think that the Rang is a killer  Looper.
>=20
>=20
> A+
>=20

That's cool, all I'm saying is that is not "THE BEST" in all reality I don't=
=20
think any one looping device is "THE BEST"...

And I appreciate your response to my post.

Thanks,
Gregory Bruce Campbell
<A HREF=3D"www.kickstartchubby.com">www.kickstartchubby.com</A>

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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#fffff0"><FONT  SIZE=3D2=
>In a message dated 12/31/2001 12:08:03 PM Central Standard Time, smaug@serv=
idor.unam.mx writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT=
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There are some of us who like Lo fi!! you don=B4t need to=
 MIDI sync every<BR>
piece of gear you own, not to mention that not every looper on this list has=
<BR>
two grand to spend on expensive toys...<BR>
<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I think that the Rang is a killer&nbsp; Looper.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
A+<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
That's cool, all I'm saying is that is not "THE BEST" in all reality I don't=
 think any one looping device is "THE BEST"...<BR>
<BR>
And I appreciate your response to my post.<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=3D1=
 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Thanks,<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=3D4=
 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><B>Greg</FONT><FONT  COLOR=
=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=3D1 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERI=
F" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></B>ory Bruce </FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" s=
tyle=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=3D4 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Ari=
al" LANG=3D"0"><B>Campbell</FONT><FONT  COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUN=
D-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=3D1 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></=
B><BR>
<A HREF=3D"www.kickstartchubby.com">www.kickstartchubby.com</A></FONT></HTML=
>

--part1_119.a3e66ba.296209bf_boundary--

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 31 14:38:22 2001
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Message-ID: <20011231190626.90908.qmail@web12307.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 11:06:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Mary Jane Adams <maverickmary@yahoo.com>
Subject: making field recordings
To: Loopers Delight <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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Hi,

I'm curious to know if any of you make field
recordings. What kind of portable/remote
equipment do you use? Special mikes? Suggested
techniques? Helpful books or web sites for more
info?

Thanks!

Mary Jane

(ps: posted this question to the
ambient@hyperreal list also, so pardon if you get
this twice.)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 31 14:44:34 2001
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From: "Rich Kroll" <kroll@vrinter.net>
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References: <6.21acae4c.2961fa83@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Boomerang + Version 2.a3  phrase sampler NEW ****** $350.00 *******NEW NE...
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Truthfully  I think they are they best for the money.
You can actually take a little talent (and the ability to tap a button =
on beat) add a boomerang and do things in a live environment that will =
blow joe average away. Heck I've seen everybody from singers to a =
keyboard player playing space music using them live and they work great.
  I would'nt use it in a studio.  But I'm not sure I would use a looper =
in a studio anyway.  For live perforamnce and Bang for the buck I'm not =
sure what you could get to do a better job.....
A loop station     NOT!!!!


Rich
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: KkstrtChby@aol.com=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 12:29 PM
  Subject: Re: Boomerang + Version 2.a3 phrase sampler NEW ****** =
$350.00 *******NEW NE...


  kroll@vrinter.net wrote---
  AFTER CHRISTMAS SALE!!!! NEWEST VERSION 2.a3 Brand New boomerang + =
phrase sampler 4 meg version / 2 loops DEALER full waranty, Manual power =
supply. 15.00 shipping pay pal accepted. Best looper available easy to =
use. Email kroll@vrinter.net or call 610-462-3627 9am -9pm est...

  "Best looper available easy to use"???

  I want to go ahead and open a new can of worms...
  I first owned a boomerang, i cant believe that i wanted so bad to get =
into looping that after two years of getting rid of my boomerang i just =
dove in and got a pair of EDPs... You would think the boomerang would =
have completely killed such a thirst in the first place... I feel that =
the boomerang is an expensive toy and will keep loopers who purchase one =
at home with looping and never try displaying their talents... My =
dis-satisfaction came with it clipping exremely, it was all around =
noisy, and the biggest thing was that it could not be synced to other =
looping units and / or MIDI... now i would never have said a word until =
this claim was made: "Best looper available easy to use"??? I'm sure i =
will irritate several individuals with my attack on the boomerang, but =
this is the first e-group that i've ever participated in where i look =
forward to reading EVERY SINGLE post! And i was irritated with such a =
claim by someone selling a $400 toy -vs- the $2400 worth of gear in my ! =
rack that smokes the boomerang like a twig! please do not post such =
false claims to make a sale to unsuspecting looper candidates. the =
boomerang can be very cool to the right people but the sales pitch was a =
bunch of........=20

  "Best looper available easy to use"???????????

  Oh wait, i guess it is easy to use...

  I invite the arguments by anyone, just please don't hate me forever, i =
tried expressing my opinions with out making false claims like a =
salesman... so to not be a total jerk, i rewrote the add and took out =
the BS, this price does sound like a great deal though:)

  kroll@vrinter.net wrote---
  AFTER CHRISTMAS SALE!!!! NEWEST VERSION 2.a3 Brand New boomerang + =
phrase sampler 4 meg version / 2 loops DEALER full waranty, Manual power =
supply. $350.00 + 15.00 shipping pay pal accepted. Email =
kroll@vrinter.net or call 610-462-3627 9am -9pm est...

  Thanks,
  Gregory Bruce Campbell
  www.kickstartchubby.com=20

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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#fffff0>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Truthfully&nbsp; I think they are they =
best for the=20
money.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You can actually take a little talent =
(and the=20
ability to tap a button on beat) add a boomerang and do things in a live =

environment that will blow joe average away. Heck I've seen everybody =
from=20
singers to a keyboard player playing space music using them live and =
they work=20
great.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp; I would'nt use it in a =
studio.&nbsp; But I'm=20
not sure I would use a looper in a studio anyway.&nbsp; For live =
perforamnce and=20
Bang for the buck I'm not sure what you could get to do a better=20
job.....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A loop station&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
NOT!!!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DKkstrtChby@aol.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:KkstrtChby@aol.com">KkstrtChby@aol.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 31, 2001 =
12:29=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Boomerang + =
Version 2.a3=20
  phrase sampler NEW ****** $350.00 *******NEW NE...</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D1><A=20
  href=3D"mailto:kroll@vrinter.net">kroll@vrinter.net</A> =
wrote---<BR>AFTER=20
  CHRISTMAS SALE!!!! NEWEST VERSION 2.a3 Brand New boomerang + phrase =
sampler 4=20
  meg version / 2 loops DEALER full waranty, Manual power supply. 15.00 =
shipping=20
  pay pal accepted. <B>Best looper available easy to use.</B> Email <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:kroll@vrinter.net">kroll@vrinter.net</A> or call =
610-462-3627 9am=20
  -9pm est...<BR><BR>"Best looper available easy to use"???<BR><BR>I =
want to go=20
  ahead and open a new can of worms...<BR>I first owned a boomerang, i =
cant=20
  believe that i wanted so bad to get into looping that after two years =
of=20
  getting rid of my boomerang i just dove in and got a pair of EDPs... =
You would=20
  think the boomerang would have completely killed such a thirst in the =
first=20
  place... I feel that the boomerang is an expensive toy and will keep =
loopers=20
  who purchase one at home with looping and never try displaying their=20
  talents... My dis-satisfaction came with it clipping exremely, it was =
all=20
  around noisy, and the biggest thing was that it could not be synced to =
other=20
  looping units and / or MIDI... now i would never have said a word =
until this=20
  claim was made: <B>"Best looper available easy to use"???</B> I'm sure =
i will=20
  irritate several individuals with my attack on the boomerang, but this =
is the=20
  first e-group that i've ever participated in where i look forward to =
reading=20
  EVERY SINGLE post! And i was irritated with such a claim by someone =
selling a=20
  $400 toy -vs- the $2400 worth of gear in my ! rack that smokes the =
boomerang=20
  like a twig! please do not post such false claims to make a sale to=20
  unsuspecting looper candidates. the boomerang can be very cool to the =
right=20
  people but the sales pitch was a bunch of........ <BR><BR><B>"<U>Best =
looper=20
  available</U> easy to use"???????????<BR><BR></B>Oh wait, i guess it =
is easy=20
  to use...<BR><BR>I invite the arguments by anyone, just please don't =
hate me=20
  forever, i tried expressing my opinions with out making false claims =
like a=20
  salesman... so to not be a total jerk, i rewrote the add and took out =
the BS,=20
  this price does sound like a great deal =
though:)<BR><BR><B>kroll@vrinter.net=20
  wrote---<BR>AFTER CHRISTMAS SALE!!!! NEWEST VERSION 2.a3 Brand New =
boomerang +=20
  phrase sampler 4 meg version / 2 loops DEALER full waranty, Manual =
power=20
  supply. $350.00 + 15.00 shipping pay pal accepted. Email =
kroll@vrinter.net or=20
  call 610-462-3627 9am -9pm est...</FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2=20
  FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"></B><BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D1=20
  FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">Thanks,<BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D4=20
  FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><B>Greg</FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D1=20
  FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"></B>ory Bruce </FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D4=20
  FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><B>Campbell</FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D1=20
  FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"></B><BR><A=20
  href=3D"www.kickstartchubby.com">www.kickstartchubby.com</A></FONT>=20
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 31 15:16:37 2001
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From: "luca" <lucafeed@tin.it>
To: "one less than none" <onelessthannone@blueyonder.co.uk>
Cc: <loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
References: <002901c19149$2d1b79a0$c05330d5@snowmonster>
Subject: Re: Lexicon PCM-81
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 20:39:59 +0100
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Messaggio in formato MIME composto da pių parti.

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  From: one less than none=20
  To: LD mailing list=20
  Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 4:46 PM
  Subject: Lexicon PCM-81


  >anyone got any experiance with these ???

  well, reverbs are (as you may expect) wonderful (lexicon trademark is =
to create reverbs with a particular attention to make them "real" =
instead of others that go into another direction) but you have all the =
power and control to build interesting and very high quality algorithms.
  A very interesting thing are the resonatorsd you find on it, I tried =
to replicate them with Eventide Orville, but there is no chance to have =
them sounding so full, thick and concrete (percussive) as the Pcm.
  Picth shifting is also accurate and creative and you have the chance =
of a nice (and long) delay at disposal to distribute the shifts in time.
  It's a very nice box with its own character.
  Add its midi implementation is great.
  If you buy it used it should be 20 bits, newer are at 24.
  Explore, explore, explore and don't explode !

  AND HAVE YOU ALL A GREAT 2002 !!!
  my best,
  luca

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3103.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:onelessthannone@blueyonder.co.uk"=20
  title=3Donelessthannone@blueyonder.co.uk>one less than none</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com"=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>LD mailing list</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, December 30, 2001 =
4:46=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Lexicon PCM-81</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"AvantGarde Md BT" size=3D2>&gt;anyone got any =
experiance with=20
  these ???</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>well, reverbs are (as you may expect) =
wonderful=20
  (lexicon trademark is to create reverbs with a particular attention to =
make=20
  them "real" instead of others that go into another direction) but you =
have all=20
  the power and control to build interesting and very high quality=20
  algorithms.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A very interesting thing are the =
resonatorsd you=20
  find on it, I tried to replicate them with Eventide Orville, but there =
is no=20
  chance to have them sounding so full, thick and concrete (percussive) =
as the=20
  Pcm.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Picth shifting is also accurate and =
creative and=20
  you have the chance of a nice (and long) delay at disposal to =
distribute the=20
  shifts in time.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It's a very nice box with its own=20
  character.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Add its midi implementation is=20
great.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If you buy it used it should =
be&nbsp;20 bits,=20
  newer are at 24.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Explore, explore, explore and don't =
explode=20
  !</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>AND HAVE YOU ALL A GREAT 2002 =
!!!</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>my best,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>luca</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 31 16:53:58 2001
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Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 13:15:39 -0800
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Subject: Re: Expectations, artifice, and a hell of a can of worms
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Hallo David,

Ya said,

[on the NiN/Madonna "canned music" thing...]
> nevertheless,
> the audience doesn't *care* to know how the music is achieved --- however the
> quality of the music's effect might be judged, *that* seems to be the
> audience's primary concern.

Agreed.  I wonder, though, how well a "Nine Inch Nails" show would go
over if Trent was a complete unknown, singing his tunes to a prerecorded
tape in a coffee shop on a Tuesday night.  Would the very same music
have the same impact on people (and would the "canned" aspect come
across as well) as it does coming from the fishnet-clad, multi-platinum
cultural icon bathed in lights from atop the stage of a sports arena?  I
honestly don't know, but it's interesting to mull over, perhaps...  (And
I personally like Trent's stuff, for the most part.)

> >I honestly feel that too much importance is placed on the mechanics and
> >craft of real-time looping by many of the musicians who use those tools.
> between us, here on LD, that's all fine w/me!
> but: in practice --- i'm more interested in the intention & content of the
> music.

Absolutely -- I think some loopists tend to get hung up on the mechanics
of what they're doing, and (sometimes) assume that a failure to connect
with an audience is somehow intrinsic to their
gear/methodology/what-have-you, rather than looking at what they
themselves are bringing (or not bringing) to the table, intention and content-wise.

> and: it kinda reminds me of the gtr-player gear/technique syndromes, which
> can be so very boring & stultifying.....

Say, David, what kind of strings do you use?
 
> >or Jaco's looping solo in the middle of Joni Mitchell gigs.
> jaco did that?

Yep!  There's a widely-available Joni Mitchell concert video (I rented
it from a Blockbuster), I believe from the "Shadows and Light" tour
(with Pat Metheny and, I think, Don Alias in the band).  It's a great
little solo bit, extremely musical... albiet a little unnerving, as you
can see a glimpse of Jaco's more... um, "malevolently unbalanced" side
peeking out therein.

> yeah, albeit i'd say that -these days- it has become clearer to me that, as
> an element of performance & composition,  i *am* interested in the audience
> hearing/feeling/sensing the technology & methodology of live-looping,

Me too.  I'm not saying, "Let's hide the mechanics of looping from the
audience," I'm saying, "Let's make sure that there's something
substantive being communicated via those mechanics, however overt or
subtle their implementation may be."

> >Torn, who uses a much more elaborate approach, both in terms of the
> >amount of gear
> huh? i use a 5-space rack, and a buncha pedals!

In comparison to someone like Mr. Lawson (the bloke by which said
comparison was brandished), that IS much more elaborate, in my
reckoning.  (I think his usual setup is a Jamman, DL4, and a Lexicon
processor into one 1x10 combo amp... correct me here if need be, Steve).

But it's true, I've seen bigger rigs than that of Torn.  Like, in the
setup of a certain bespectacled British progressive rock icon...  ;)

> there's certainly no dearth of musicians-pursuing-and-perfecting-mediocrity,
> at the 'top' of their fields.....

Well-spoken.

> >And it doesn't mean that a good ambient act
> >can't clean the floor with a bad funk band.
> currently, my floors are *somewhat* clean, already.....

That made my day right there...

> ..... and i just finished my second dbl-espresso of the day.....

...and that ruined it!  :-()  (Kidding, of course.)

Happy New Year y'all,

--Andre LaFosse
http://www.altruistmusic.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 31 17:30:58 2001
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From: "future perfect" <artists@hazardfactor.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Subject: RE: Expectations, artifice, and a hell of a can of worms
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 16:54:28 -0500
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 Playing in a duo similar to Frank's, I gotta agree. I don't like
explanations of what people are hearing- it feels to me like 'look at
me, if you thought I was cool before, and now you know all the work I am
actually *doing* up here, you gotta think I am mega cool now!'.
If people want to know, they will usually just ask afterwards. If they
think the music is canned, so be it- they can also laugh at my
expressions of panic when I accidentally press 'mute' instead of
'record'.
Frank, we should do a show sometime.

Dave Eichenberger
http://www.hazardfactor.com
 
 
> >It's my feeling that, ultimately, the music in and of itself 
> needs to 
> >have a certain fundamental strength to it, REGARDLESS of the 
> presence 
> >or absence of clever or unusual methodology.
> 	AMEN to that.
 
> Frank Gerace
> Dreamchild
> www.dreamchildmusic.com
 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 31 17:58:37 2001
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Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 17:17:10 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com
From: Tim Nelson <tnelson@metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: making field recordings
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At 11:06 AM 12/31/01 -0800, Mary Jane wrote:
>I'm curious to know if any of you make field
>recordings. What kind of portable/remote
>equipment do you use? Special mikes?

I use a Sony MZ-R37 MiniDisc recorder with a Sony ECM-DS70P stereo mic, but
since I'm not entirely happy with the frequency response of the mic
(100-15khz), I'm also interested in hearing what the rest of you are using!

-t-

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 31 18:03:33 2001
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Subject: Re: Expectations, artifice, and a hell of a can of worms
From: Stan Card <stanitarium@earthlink.net>
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yeah that whole AB routine about his looping w/ <EH16sec.ddl> is on that
video he made long ago and still available:"adrian belew electronic guitar"
on DCI music video inc.fwiw-
s


>>>> addition of whatall might be construed as a 'lecture'.....
> 
> Like Miko, I'd have to side with DT and Frank Gerace on that one, although
> I can think of two specific exceptions: 1) I saw Adrian Belew right after
> he got his first EH-16 (early 80's 'Twang Bar King' tour), and he was so
> enthused about the thing, he gave an impromptu demonstration of what it
> could do, overtly building and reversing a loop, and then incorporating it
> into the next tune.
> 
>> ..... and i just finished my second dbl-espresso of the day.....
> 
> Mmmm!
> 
> -t-
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 31 18:09:29 2001
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From: Tim Nelson <tnelson@metrocast.net>
Subject: Re: Boomerang + Version 2.a3  phrase sampler NEW ******
  $350.00 *******NEW NE...
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At 02:15 PM 12/31/01 -0500, Rich wrote:
>But I'm not sure I would use a looper in a studio anyway. 

Gasp!!! Heresy!

Seriously, everyone I know who's compared the upgraded 'rang "+" with the
original has been very impressed, and several of the shortcomings GREGory
pointed at have been at least improved. I can understand his reaction to
what he considers hype, but the + version IS a different beast...

-t-
 

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Mary Jane Adams wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm curious to know if any of you make field
> recordings. What kind of portable/remote
> equipment do you use? Special mikes? Suggested
> techniques? Helpful books or web sites for more
> info?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mary Jane

hi

i started doing "field recordings" a few years ago, and while i've not
done lots of it, i have used several devices, with varying results, to
wit: i began with a sony microcassette recorder M-679V, which i still
have, and use periodically, but usually to load quickly recorded stuff
into my guitar pickups for that *special* texture (i use a cell phone
for the same); it's a bit noisy and i've only used the built-in mic
(kinda crappy) with it for simplicity's sake; i have used a couple of MD
recorders, the first is the sony MZ R55, which i've had some good luck
with, and i actually found the sony electret condenser stereo mic to be
pretty decent, though at about US $100 i would have expected it to be a
little more solidly-built (it's obviously more of a hobby-grade
instrument, but it is fairly clear-sounding and is switchable between a
90 degree and 120 degree pattern). my biggest complaint was running out
of battery juice at inopportune times, but that's less a beef about the
gear than an indication of poor planning (also, the mic is powered, so
even if you remember to have spares or a charged-up nicad on hand for
the MD, it's easly to forget to carry an extra for the mic...). i just
got a new sony MZ-R700, which comes in a cool lime green :-) and is a
bit smaller/lighter than the earlier model. the mic's the same, but the
interface is a little easier to use, and i'm happy enough with the
results from the few tests i've made. one of the biggest problems i've
heard from others doing field work is wind noise. the sony mic comes
with a foam windscreen, which helps but doesn't eliminate the
problem...as for more in-depth info, i haven't looked around. actually,
if you find a good source of data, i'd definitely be interested!

best,
lance g.

ps i've also run a roland hard-disc unit out into the elements on a
looong extension cord. results were good with small diaphram condenser
mics, but not the most flexible (or portable) set-up!


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From: Mike Killian <kili@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Boomerang + Version 2.a3  phrase sampler NEW ******
 $350.00*******NEW NE...
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amen to that!  I have two that I use and find that for my playing (out as matter of
fact) it works better not to mess with MIDI.  I run guitar and and ADG 10 string
tapping guitar through a Roland GR-33, and loop via an effects send on my board.
Perhaps in a different setting with different instrumentation I would use a rack
mounted midi-synced something but for me, simple is better.  (I save loops in my
head!)

Mike Killian

Andy Soto wrote:

>     There are some of us who like Lo fi!! you donīt need to MIDI sync every
> piece of gear you own, not to mention that not every looper on this list has
> two grand to spend on expensive toys...
>
>     I think that the Rang is a killer  Looper.
>
> A+
>
> At 12:29 p.m. 31/12/01 EST, you wrote:
> >kroll@vrinter.net wrote---
> >AFTER CHRISTMAS SALE!!!! NEWEST VERSION 2.a3 Brand New boomerang + phrase
> >sampler 4 meg version / 2 loops DEALER full waranty, Manual power supply.
> >15.00 shipping pay pal accepted. Best looper available easy to use. Email
> >kroll@vrinter.net or call 610-462-3627 9am -9pm est...
> >
> >"Best looper available easy to use"???
> >
> >I want to go ahead and open a new can of worms...
> >I first owned a boomerang, i cant believe that i wanted so bad to get into
> >looping that after two years of getting rid of my boomerang i just dove in
> >and got a pair of EDPs... You would think the boomerang would have completely
> >killed such a thirst in the first place... I feel that the boomerang is an
> >expensive toy and will keep loopers who purchase one at home with looping and
> >never try displaying their talents... My dis-satisfaction came with it
> >clipping exremely, it was all around noisy, and the biggest thing was that it
> >could not be synced to other looping units and / or MIDI... now i would never
> >have said a word until this claim was made: "Best looper available easy to
> >use"??? I'm sure i will irritate several individuals with my attack on the
> >boomerang, but this is the first e-group that i've ever participated in where
> >i look forward to reading EVERY SINGLE post! And i was irritated with such a
> >claim by someone selling a $400 toy -vs- the $2400 worth of gear in my rack
> >that smokes the boomerang like a twig! please do not post such false claims
> >to make a sale to unsuspecting looper candidates. the boomerang can be very
> >cool to the right people but the sales pitch was a bunch of........
> >
> >"Best looper available easy to use"???????????
> >
> >Oh wait, i guess it is easy to use...
> >
> >I invite the arguments by anyone, just please don't hate me forever, i tried
> >expressing my opinions with out making false claims like a salesman... so to
> >not be a total jerk, i rewrote the add and took out the BS, this price does
> >sound like a great deal though:)
> >
> >kroll@vrinter.net wrote---
> >AFTER CHRISTMAS SALE!!!! NEWEST VERSION 2.a3 Brand New boomerang + phrase
> >sampler 4 meg version / 2 loops DEALER full waranty, Manual power supply.
> >$350.00 + 15.00 shipping pay pal accepted. Email kroll@vrinter.net or call
> >610-462-3627 9am -9pm est...
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Gregory Bruce Campbell
> ><A HREF="www.kickstartchubby.com">www.kickstartchubby.com</A>
> ><HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#fffff0"><FONT
> SIZE=1>kroll@vrinter.net wrote---<BR>
> >AFTER CHRISTMAS SALE!!!! NEWEST VERSION 2.a3 Brand New boomerang + phrase
> sampler 4 meg version / 2 loops DEALER full waranty, Manual power supply.
> 15.00 shipping pay pal accepted. <B>Best looper available easy to use.</B>
> Email kroll@vrinter.net or call 610-462-3627 9am -9pm est...<BR>
> ><BR>
> >"Best looper available easy to use"???<BR>
> ><BR>
> >I want to go ahead and open a new can of worms...<BR>
> >I first owned a boomerang, i cant believe that i wanted so bad to get into
> looping that after two years of getting rid of my boomerang i just dove in
> and got a pair of EDPs... You would think the boomerang would have
> completely killed such a thirst in the first place... I feel that the
> boomerang is an expensive toy and will keep loopers who purchase one at home
> with looping and never try displaying their talents... My dis-satisfaction
> came with it clipping exremely, it was all around noisy, and the biggest
> thing was that it could not be synced to other looping units and / or
> MIDI... now i would never have said a word until this claim was made:
> <B>"Best looper available easy to use"???</B> I'm sure i will irritate
> several individuals with my attack on the boomerang, but this is the first
> e-group that i've ever participated in where i look forward to reading EVERY
> SINGLE post! And i was irritated with such a claim by someone selling a $400
> toy -vs- the $2400 worth of gear in my !
> >rack that smokes the boomerang like a twig! please do not post such false
> claims to make a sale to unsuspecting looper candidates. the boomerang can
> be very cool to the right people but the sales pitch was a bunch of........ <BR>
> ><BR>
> ><B>"<U>Best looper available</U> easy to use"???????????<BR>
> ><BR>
> ></B>Oh wait, i guess it is easy to use...<BR>
> ><BR>
> >I invite the arguments by anyone, just please don't hate me forever, i
> tried expressing my opinions with out making false claims like a salesman...
> so to not be a total jerk, i rewrote the add and took out the BS, this price
> does sound like a great deal though:)<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><B>kroll@vrinter.net wrote---<BR>
> >AFTER CHRISTMAS SALE!!!! NEWEST VERSION 2.a3 Brand New boomerang + phrase
> sampler 4 meg version / 2 loops DEALER full waranty, Manual power supply.
> $350.00 + 15.00 shipping pay pal accepted. Email kroll@vrinter.net or call
> 610-462-3627 9am -9pm est...</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000"
> style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial"
> LANG="0"></B><BR>
> ><BR>
> ></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=1
> FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Thanks,<BR>
> ></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=4
> FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>Greg</FONT><FONT
> COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
> FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B>ory Bruce </FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000"
> style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial"
> LANG="0"><B>Campbell</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:
> #fffff0" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
> ><A HREF="www.kickstartchubby.com">www.kickstartchubby.com</A></FONT></HTML>
> >

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I will admit I have never tried the Boomerang + but my first impression keeps 
me away.

The one credit to the boomerang I will give is that by owning one, I knew I 
had to time my foot to create satisfying loops when I got my EDP units ... 
hey I would have figured that out 3 minutes later than I already knew it when 
my EDPs arrived...

So the Boomerang did save me a few minutes in getting started on my EDPs!

Again it was the comment about being "THE BEST" ... if it was "the best for 
the money"??? I still disagree but that is not what was stated in the 
solicitation...

It seems this is turning into a chevy / ford... coke / pepsi type thing... 
(is one really BETTER?)

Boomerang vs "EDP, Eventide, or Jamman" yes they all loop but it would be 
more like comparing Shasta and Cabernet.... nothing do with each other except 
you can drink them both... LOL :)

And hey, my responses from here on out are all in fun, so I hope no one gets 
really upset by my logic...

Thanks,
Gregory Bruce Campbell
<A HREF="www.kickstartchubby.com">www.kickstartchubby.com</A>

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>I will admit I have never tried the Boomerang + but my first impression keeps me away.<BR>
<BR>
The one credit to the boomerang I will give is that by owning one, I knew I had to time my foot to create satisfying loops when I got my EDP units ... hey I would have figured that out 3 minutes later than I already knew it when my EDPs arrived...<BR>
<BR>
So the Boomerang did save me a few minutes in getting started on my EDPs!<BR>
<BR>
Again it was the comment about being "THE BEST" ... if it was "the best for the money"??? I still disagree but that is <U>not</U> what was stated in the <U>solicitation</U>...<BR>
<BR>
It seems this is turning into a chevy / ford... coke / pepsi type thing... (is one really BETTER?)<BR>
<BR>
Boomerang vs "EDP, Eventide, or Jamman" yes they all loop but it would be more like comparing Shasta and Cabernet.... nothing do with each other except you can drink them both... LOL :)<BR>
<BR>
And hey, my responses from here on out are all in fun, so I hope no one gets really upset by my logic...<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Thanks,<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>Greg</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B>ory Bruce </FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>Campbell</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
<A HREF="www.kickstartchubby.com">www.kickstartchubby.com</A></FONT></HTML>

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In a message dated 12/31/2001 5:01:24 PM Central Standard Time, 
kili@swbell.net writes:


> amen to that!  I have two that I use and find that for my playing (out as 
> matter of
> fact) it works better not to mess with MIDI.  I run guitar and and ADG 10 
> string
> tapping guitar through a Roland GR-33, and loop via an effects send on my 
> board.
> Perhaps in a different setting with different instrumentation I would use a 
> rack
> mounted midi-synced something but for me, simple is better.  (I save loops 
> in my
> head!)
> 

I'm only curious, do you use both at the same time? 

If so how do you keep the two loops from getting away from each other?

Thanks,
Gregory Bruce Campbell
<A HREF="www.kickstartchubby.com">www.kickstartchubby.com</A>

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#fffff0"><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 12/31/2001 5:01:24 PM Central Standard Time, kili@swbell.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">amen to that!&nbsp; I have two that I use and find that for my playing (out as matter of<BR>
fact) it works better not to mess with MIDI.&nbsp; I run guitar and and ADG 10 string<BR>
tapping guitar through a Roland GR-33, and loop via an effects send on my board.<BR>
Perhaps in a different setting with different instrumentation I would use a rack<BR>
mounted midi-synced something but for me, simple is better.&nbsp; (I save loops in my<BR>
head!)<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
I'm only curious, do you use both at the same time? <BR>
<BR>
If so how do you keep the two loops from getting away from each other?<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Thanks,<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>Greg</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B>ory Bruce </FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>Campbell</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
<A HREF="www.kickstartchubby.com">www.kickstartchubby.com</A></FONT></HTML>

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Yup, that's the one. Although the night I saw him (Sept. 13th, '83 at the
Paradise in Boston) it wasn't yet a routine and he was waaaay more enthused
than in the video because 1) he'd just gotten the thing a few weeks before,
and 2) when he performed for the video several months later, he had the
flu! (It was the day after shooting Crimson's 'Sleepless' video.)

Happy New Year, everyone!

-t-

At 02:27 PM 12/31/01 -0800, stan wrote:
>yeah that whole AB routine about his looping w/ <EH16sec.ddl> is on that
>video he made long ago and still available:"adrian belew electronic guitar"
>on DCI music video inc.fwiw-
>s

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    I'm looking for info (brand, model, price, where to purchase) on a dual 
expression pedal midi controller. Also where to get the best price on an 
Eletrix Repeater 1.1.
    Also if anybody's interested, you can purchase copies of Honey Barbara 
"I-10 & W. Ave." cd at: www.emigre.com.
    Happy New Year!!!

                    "God bless us all, everyone"  


                                                        James

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 31 20:37:01 2001
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Subject: Re: SV: Midi arpeggiating with Quasimidi Quasar - advice needed
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 16:59:10 -0800
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I've got one, it's cool...

    Kevin

Unit Circle Media
http://www.unitcircle.com
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "William Mcallister" <BILLYBUDDHA@webtv.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: SV: Midi arpeggiating with Quasimidi Quasar - advice needed


> Has anyone on this list tried the Map 1 arpeggiator.
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 31 20:38:24 2001
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Subject: Re: Expectations, artifice, and a hell of a can of worms
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I kind of disagree about not giving the audience a bit of an idea of what
you're doing.  You don't have to pontificate about it, or go into minutia,
but a tad of explanation can be good.  You rarely see a painting or
photograph that doesn't describe the medium a bit.  Why not music?  Usually,
it's self explanatory, a guy is playing an electric guitar through an amp.
Sax into a PA, Vocal, etc.  But when you're doing something that's not
evident, I think people like a little heads up.  Of course, all this is *in
addition to a good performance of interesting music*, not instead of.  I
think a little explanation before your performance is nice, and can build a
rapport with your audience.  I've only had good experiences while doing it.

Mark Sottilaro

on 12/31/01 1:15 PM, Andre LaFosse at altruist@altruistmusic.com wrote:

> Hallo David,
> 
> Ya said,
> 
> [on the NiN/Madonna "canned music" thing...]
>> nevertheless,
>> the audience doesn't *care* to know how the music is achieved --- however the
>> quality of the music's effect might be judged, *that* seems to be the
>> audience's primary concern.
> 
> Agreed.  I wonder, though, how well a "Nine Inch Nails" show would go
> over if Trent was a complete unknown, singing his tunes to a prerecorded
> tape in a coffee shop on a Tuesday night.  Would the very same music
> have the same impact on people (and would the "canned" aspect come
> across as well) as it does coming from the fishnet-clad, multi-platinum
> cultural icon bathed in lights from atop the stage of a sports arena?  I
> honestly don't know, but it's interesting to mull over, perhaps...  (And
> I personally like Trent's stuff, for the most part.)
> 
>>> I honestly feel that too much importance is placed on the mechanics and
>>> craft of real-time looping by many of the musicians who use those tools.
>> between us, here on LD, that's all fine w/me!
>> but: in practice --- i'm more interested in the intention & content of the
>> music.
> 
> Absolutely -- I think some loopists tend to get hung up on the mechanics
> of what they're doing, and (sometimes) assume that a failure to connect
> with an audience is somehow intrinsic to their
> gear/methodology/what-have-you, rather than looking at what they
> themselves are bringing (or not bringing) to the table, intention and
> content-wise.
> 
>> and: it kinda reminds me of the gtr-player gear/technique syndromes, which
>> can be so very boring & stultifying.....
> 
> Say, David, what kind of strings do you use?
> 
>>> or Jaco's looping solo in the middle of Joni Mitchell gigs.
>> jaco did that?
> 
> Yep!  There's a widely-available Joni Mitchell concert video (I rented
> it from a Blockbuster), I believe from the "Shadows and Light" tour
> (with Pat Metheny and, I think, Don Alias in the band).  It's a great
> little solo bit, extremely musical... albiet a little unnerving, as you
> can see a glimpse of Jaco's more... um, "malevolently unbalanced" side
> peeking out therein.
> 
>> yeah, albeit i'd say that -these days- it has become clearer to me that, as
>> an element of performance & composition,  i *am* interested in the audience
>> hearing/feeling/sensing the technology & methodology of live-looping,
> 
> Me too.  I'm not saying, "Let's hide the mechanics of looping from the
> audience," I'm saying, "Let's make sure that there's something
> substantive being communicated via those mechanics, however overt or
> subtle their implementation may be."
> 
>>> Torn, who uses a much more elaborate approach, both in terms of the
>>> amount of gear
>> huh? i use a 5-space rack, and a buncha pedals!
> 
> In comparison to someone like Mr. Lawson (the bloke by which said
> comparison was brandished), that IS much more elaborate, in my
> reckoning.  (I think his usual setup is a Jamman, DL4, and a Lexicon
> processor into one 1x10 combo amp... correct me here if need be, Steve).
> 
> But it's true, I've seen bigger rigs than that of Torn.  Like, in the
> setup of a certain bespectacled British progressive rock icon...  ;)
> 
>> there's certainly no dearth of musicians-pursuing-and-perfecting-mediocrity,
>> at the 'top' of their fields.....
> 
> Well-spoken.
> 
>>> And it doesn't mean that a good ambient act
>>> can't clean the floor with a bad funk band.
>> currently, my floors are *somewhat* clean, already.....
> 
> That made my day right there...
> 
>> ..... and i just finished my second dbl-espresso of the day.....
> 
> ...and that ruined it!  :-()  (Kidding, of course.)
> 
> Happy New Year y'all,
> 
> --Andre LaFosse
> http://www.altruistmusic.com
> 

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Subject: Re: Boomerang + Version 2.a3  phrase sampler NEW ****** $350.00 *******NEW NE...
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I've discussed the boomerang on the list many times.  I have to disagree =
with your assessment of it.  I've used it live dozens and dozens of =
times over the last three years (including on tour).  I've also got an =
EDP, but I prefer the boomerang for live situations.  It's dead simple =
to use and control, it doesn't sound lo-fi to me when used with my bass =
or cello.  It's a nifty box!  For a looping guitarist or bassist, I =
think it's the best box for the job.  I'm still using the v1.0 software =
though, I haven't had a chance to upgrade it because I don't want to be =
without it!

    Kevin

Unit Circle Media
http://www.unitcircle.com
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: KkstrtChby@aol.com=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 9:29 AM
  Subject: Re: Boomerang + Version 2.a3 phrase sampler NEW ****** =
$350.00 *******NEW NE...


  kroll@vrinter.net wrote---
  AFTER CHRISTMAS SALE!!!! NEWEST VERSION 2.a3 Brand New boomerang + =
phrase sampler 4 meg version / 2 loops DEALER full waranty, Manual power =
supply. 15.00 shipping pay pal accepted. Best looper available easy to =
use. Email kroll@vrinter.net or call 610-462-3627 9am -9pm est...

  "Best looper available easy to use"???

  I want to go ahead and open a new can of worms...
  I first owned a boomerang, i cant believe that i wanted so bad to get =
into looping that after two years of getting rid of my boomerang i just =
dove in and got a pair of EDPs... You would think the boomerang would =
have completely killed such a thirst in the first place... I feel that =
the boomerang is an expensive toy and will keep loopers who purchase one =
at home with looping and never try displaying their talents... My =
dis-satisfaction came with it clipping exremely, it was all around =
noisy, and the biggest thing was that it could not be synced to other =
looping units and / or MIDI... now i would never have said a word until =
this claim was made: "Best looper available easy to use"??? I'm sure i =
will irritate several individuals with my attack on the boomerang, but =
this is the first e-group that i've ever participated in where i look =
forward to reading EVERY SINGLE post! And i was irritated with such a =
claim by someone selling a $400 toy -vs- the $2400 worth of gear in my ! =
rack that smokes the boomerang like a twig! please do not post such =
false claims to make a sale to unsuspecting looper candidates. the =
boomerang can be very cool to the right people but the sales pitch was a =
bunch of........=20

  "Best looper available easy to use"???????????

  Oh wait, i guess it is easy to use...

  I invite the arguments by anyone, just please don't hate me forever, i =
tried expressing my opinions with out making false claims like a =
salesman... so to not be a total jerk, i rewrote the add and took out =
the BS, this price does sound like a great deal though:)

  kroll@vrinter.net wrote---
  AFTER CHRISTMAS SALE!!!! NEWEST VERSION 2.a3 Brand New boomerang + =
phrase sampler 4 meg version / 2 loops DEALER full waranty, Manual power =
supply. $350.00 + 15.00 shipping pay pal accepted. Email =
kroll@vrinter.net or call 610-462-3627 9am -9pm est...

  Thanks,
  Gregory Bruce Campbell
  www.kickstartchubby.com=20

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#fffff0>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've discussed the boomerang&nbsp;on =
the=20
list&nbsp;many times.&nbsp; I have to disagree with your assessment of =
it.&nbsp;=20
I've used it live dozens and dozens of times over the last three years=20
(including on tour).&nbsp; I've also got an EDP, but I prefer the =
boomerang for=20
live situations.&nbsp; It's dead simple to use and control, it doesn't =
sound=20
lo-fi to me when used with my bass or cello.&nbsp; It's a nifty =
box!&nbsp; For a=20
looping guitarist or bassist, I think it's the best box for the =
job.&nbsp; I'm=20
still using the v1.0 software though, I haven't had a chance to upgrade =
it=20
because I don't want to be without it!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Kevin</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Unit Circle Media<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.unitcircle.com">http://www.unitcircle.com</A></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DKkstrtChby@aol.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:KkstrtChby@aol.com">KkstrtChby@aol.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  title=3DLoopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com">Loopers-Delight@loope=
rs-delight.com</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 31, 2001 =
9:29=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Boomerang + =
Version 2.a3=20
  phrase sampler NEW ****** $350.00 *******NEW NE...</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D1><A=20
  href=3D"mailto:kroll@vrinter.net">kroll@vrinter.net</A> =
wrote---<BR>AFTER=20
  CHRISTMAS SALE!!!! NEWEST VERSION 2.a3 Brand New boomerang + phrase =
sampler 4=20
  meg version / 2 loops DEALER full waranty, Manual power supply. 15.00 =
shipping=20
  pay pal accepted. <B>Best looper available easy to use.</B> Email <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:kroll@vrinter.net">kroll@vrinter.net</A> or call =
610-462-3627 9am=20
  -9pm est...<BR><BR>"Best looper available easy to use"???<BR><BR>I =
want to go=20
  ahead and open a new can of worms...<BR>I first owned a boomerang, i =
cant=20
  believe that i wanted so bad to get into looping that after two years =
of=20
  getting rid of my boomerang i just dove in and got a pair of EDPs... =
You would=20
  think the boomerang would have completely killed such a thirst in the =
first=20
  place... I feel that the boomerang is an expensive toy and will keep =
loopers=20
  who purchase one at home with looping and never try displaying their=20
  talents... My dis-satisfaction came with it clipping exremely, it was =
all=20
  around noisy, and the biggest thing was that it could not be synced to =
other=20
  looping units and / or MIDI... now i would never have said a word =
until this=20
  claim was made: <B>"Best looper available easy to use"???</B> I'm sure =
i will=20
  irritate several individuals with my attack on the boomerang, but this =
is the=20
  first e-group that i've ever participated in where i look forward to =
reading=20
  EVERY SINGLE post! And i was irritated with such a claim by someone =
selling a=20
  $400 toy -vs- the $2400 worth of gear in my ! rack that smokes the =
boomerang=20
  like a twig! please do not post such false claims to make a sale to=20
  unsuspecting looper candidates. the boomerang can be very cool to the =
right=20
  people but the sales pitch was a bunch of........ <BR><BR><B>"<U>Best =
looper=20
  available</U> easy to use"???????????<BR><BR></B>Oh wait, i guess it =
is easy=20
  to use...<BR><BR>I invite the arguments by anyone, just please don't =
hate me=20
  forever, i tried expressing my opinions with out making false claims =
like a=20
  salesman... so to not be a total jerk, i rewrote the add and took out =
the BS,=20
  this price does sound like a great deal =
though:)<BR><BR><B>kroll@vrinter.net=20
  wrote---<BR>AFTER CHRISTMAS SALE!!!! NEWEST VERSION 2.a3 Brand New =
boomerang +=20
  phrase sampler 4 meg version / 2 loops DEALER full waranty, Manual =
power=20
  supply. $350.00 + 15.00 shipping pay pal accepted. Email =
kroll@vrinter.net or=20
  call 610-462-3627 9am -9pm est...</FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2=20
  FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"></B><BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D1=20
  FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">Thanks,<BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D4=20
  FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><B>Greg</FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D1=20
  FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"></B>ory Bruce </FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D4=20
  FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"><B>Campbell</FONT><FONT lang=3D0=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D1=20
  FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"></B><BR><A=20
  href=3D"www.kickstartchubby.com">www.kickstartchubby.com</A></FONT>=20
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Subject: Re: Boomerang + Version 2.a3  phrase sampler NEW$350.00
From: Stan Card <stanitarium@earthlink.net>
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what a wonderful sentiment on this NYE...
i concur
s 

 simple is better.  (I save loops in
> my
> head!)
> 
> Mike Killian

From Loopers-Delight-request@loopers-delight.com  Mon Dec 31 20:58:47 2001
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Subject: Re: Boomerang + Version 2.a3  phrase sampler NEW ****** $350.00
	*******NEW NE...
From: Marklar <sine@zerocrossing.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@loopers-delight.com>
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I hate to say it, but for an extra $150 you could get a Repeater that isn't
two grand, but will run rings around the Boomerang and is also very easy to
use.  It's new with a warrantee as well.

Mark

on 12/31/01 10:06 AM, Andy Soto at smaug@servidor.unam.mx wrote:

> 
> There are some of us who like Lo fi!! you donīt need to MIDI sync every
> piece of gear you own, not to mention that not every looper on this list has
> two grand to spend on expensive toys...
> 
> I think that the Rang is a killer  Looper.
> 
> 
> A+
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 12:29 p.m. 31/12/01 EST, you wrote:
>> kroll@vrinter.net wrote---
>> AFTER CHRISTMAS SALE!!!! NEWEST VERSION 2.a3 Brand New boomerang + phrase
>> sampler 4 meg version / 2 loops DEALER full waranty, Manual power supply.
>> 15.00 shipping pay pal accepted. Best looper available easy to use. Email
>> kroll@vrinter.net or call 610-462-3627 9am -9pm est...
>> 
>> "Best looper available easy to use"???
>> 
>> I want to go ahead and open a new can of worms...
>> I first owned a boomerang, i cant believe that i wanted so bad to get into
>> looping that after two years of getting rid of my boomerang i just dove in
>> and got a pair of EDPs... You would think the boomerang would have completely
>> killed such a thirst in the first place... I feel that the boomerang is an
>> expensive toy and will keep loopers who purchase one at home with looping and
>> never try displaying their talents... My dis-satisfaction came with it
>> clipping exremely, it was all around noisy, and the biggest thing was that it
>> could not be synced to other looping units and / or MIDI... now i would never
>> have said a word until this claim was made: "Best looper available easy to
>> use"??? I'm sure i will irritate several individuals with my attack on the
>> boomerang, but this is the first e-group that i've ever participated in where
>> i look forward to reading EVERY SINGLE post! And i was irritated with such a
>> claim by someone selling a $400 toy -vs- the $2400 worth of gear in my rack
>> that smokes the boomerang like a twig! please do not post such false claims
>> to make a sale to unsuspecting looper candidates. the boomerang can be very
>> cool to the right people but the sales pitch was a bunch of........
>> 
>> "Best looper available easy to use"???????????
>> 
>> Oh wait, i guess it is easy to use...
>> 
>> I invite the arguments by anyone, just please don't hate me forever, i tried
>> expressing my opinions with out making false claims like a salesman... so to
>> not be a total jerk, i rewrote the add and took out the BS, this price does
>> sound like a great deal though:)
>> 
>> kroll@vrinter.net wrote---
>> AFTER CHRISTMAS SALE!!!! NEWEST VERSION 2.a3 Brand New boomerang + phrase
>> sampler 4 meg version / 2 loops DEALER full waranty, Manual power supply.
>> $350.00 + 15.00 shipping pay pal accepted. Email kroll@vrinter.net or call
>> 610-462-3627 9am -9pm est...
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Gregory Bruce Campbell
>> <A HREF="www.kickstartchubby.com">www.kickstartchubby.com</A>
>> <HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#fffff0"><FONT
> SIZE=1>kroll@vrinter.net wrote---<BR>
>> AFTER CHRISTMAS SALE!!!! NEWEST VERSION 2.a3 Brand New boomerang + phrase
> sampler 4 meg version / 2 loops DEALER full waranty, Manual power supply.
> 15.00 shipping pay pal accepted. <B>Best looper available easy to use.</B>
> Email kroll@vrinter.net or call 610-462-3627 9am -9pm est...<BR>
>> <BR>
>> "Best looper available easy to use"???<BR>
>> <BR>
>> I want to go ahead and open a new can of worms...<BR>
>> I first owned a boomerang, i cant believe that i wanted so bad to get into
> looping that after two years of getting rid of my boomerang i just dove in
> and got a pair of EDPs... You would think the boomerang would have
> completely killed such a thirst in the first place... I feel that the
> boomerang is an expensive toy and will keep loopers who purchase one at home
> with looping and never try displaying their talents... My dis-satisfaction
> came with it clipping exremely, it was all around noisy, and the biggest
> thing was that it could not be synced to other looping units and / or
> MIDI... now i would never have said a word until this claim was made:
> <B>"Best looper available easy to use"???</B> I'm sure i will irritate
> several individuals with my attack on the boomerang, but this is the first
> e-group that i've ever participated in where i look forward to reading EVERY
> SINGLE post! And i was irritated with such a claim by someone selling a $400
> toy -vs- the $2400 worth of gear in my !
>> rack that smokes the boomerang like a twig! please do not post such false
> claims to make a sale to unsuspecting looper candidates. the boomerang can
> be very cool to the right people but the sales pitch was a bunch of........
> <BR>
>> <BR>
>> <B>"<U>Best looper available</U> easy to use"???????????<BR>
>> <BR>
>> </B>Oh wait, i guess it is easy to use...<BR>
>> <BR>
>> I invite the arguments by anyone, just please don't hate me forever, i
> tried expressing my opinions with out making false claims like a salesman...
> so to not be a total jerk, i rewrote the add and took out the BS, this price
> does sound like a great deal though:)<BR>
>> <BR>
>> <B>kroll@vrinter.net wrote---<BR>
>> AFTER CHRISTMAS SALE!!!! NEWEST VERSION 2.a3 Brand New boomerang + phrase
> sampler 4 meg version / 2 loops DEALER full waranty, Manual power supply.
> $350.00 + 15.00 shipping pay pal accepted. Email kroll@vrinter.net or call
> 610-462-3627 9am -9pm est...</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000"
> style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial"
> LANG="0"></B><BR>
>> <BR>
>> </FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=1
> FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Thanks,<BR>
>> </FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=4
> FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><B>Greg</FONT><FONT
> COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
> FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B>ory Bruce </FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000"
> style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fffff0" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial"
> LANG="0"><B>Campbell</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:
> #fffff0" SIZE=1 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
>> <A HREF="www.kickstartchubby.com">www.kickstartchubby.com</A></FONT></HTML>
>> 
>