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Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 02:11:20 -0500
From: :"-Peter :-Prisekin aka :-Dusty :-Chalk" <dusty@patriot.net>
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: MIDI Sequencers, computers  and live acts
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samuel wrote:
> Do you know some hardware sequencer which has the ability of being
> programmed from the computer???

Well, strictly speaking, _any_ hardware sequencer has the ability of
being programmed from the computer if you have a card capable of
supplying a MIDI out (game port and appropriate cable).  You just 
sequence on the computer (Master Tracks Pro, an excellent program, 
can be had for US$30), then play it from the computer, and record it 
from the hardware sequencer.

I realize that was not what you were really asking, you wanted the
MIDI "loop points" captured for manipulation by the hardware 
sequencer, but I suppose what I was getting at was that if you want 
an interim solution, you can download most of it from the computer, 
then edit the loop points manually.

Personally, I use the sequencing capabilities built into my Kurzweil
K2500RS, which has some really nice "loopy" features, so I can't be 
of any help there.  Sorry.
-- 
I remain,
:-Peter aka :-Dusty :-Chalk

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Subject: Sushi
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>     The MC50 controls my Sp-808, 2 Korg X5DR's, a Korg NS5R, a Korg D8 
> digital multitrack, a Digitech Studio Vocalist, an Akai S01 Sampler, a Roland 
> JS30 sampler, a Zoom ST-224 Sampler and my Yamaha ProMix 01 (I love watching 

Sushi, Sushi, Sushi ...

French food could be also good sometime, why don't you try it for once

Emmanuel

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To: a a <loopers-delight@annihilist.com>, chris becker <beckermusic@yahoo.com>,
        michael bober <mbbober@pol.net>,
        Nick Boeglin <greatness44@hotmail.com>,
        Kamal BouMikael <kamalrock@worldnet.att.net>,
        George Davis <jordavi@aol.com>, Scott Edware <sedwards@loyola.edu>,
        bart ferguson <beksorphan21@hotmail.com>,
        Ann Marie Guidry <amguidry@bellsouth.net>,
        Lorenz Haeusle <lorenz@ganymed.org>, Francis James <keyfilms@aol.com>,
        Amy Johnson <amyjohnson@law.tulane.edu>,
        Stephan langdon <imiro@yahoo.com>,
        THOMAS NEWMAN <GLYNSTYLER@webtv.net>,
        michelle Nunez <prodigtl@baileylink.net>,
        David POPE <75613.1761@compuserve.com>,
        Dereck Rollins <drollin@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu>,
        stan smith <ssmith3@capital.edu>, anita sumner <anitasum@yahoo.com>,
        jason sumner <sizzlecheste@yahoo.com>,
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  The government of Afghanistan is waging a war upon
women. Since the

  Taliban took power in 1996, women have had to wear
burqua and have been
  beaten

  and stoned in public for not having the proper
attire, even if this means

  simply not having the mesh covering in front of
their eyes. One woman was

  beaten to DEATH by an angry mob of fundamentalists
for accidentally

  exposing her arm while she was driving. Another was
stoned to death for

  trying to

  leave the country with a man that was not a
relative.

  Women are not allowed to work or even go out in
public without a male

  relative; professional women such as professors,

  translators,doctors,lawyers, artists and writers
have been forced from

  their jobs and stuffed into their homes, so that
depression is becoming so

  widespread that it has reached emergency levels.
There no way in such an

  extreme Islamic society to know the suicide rate
with certainty, but relief

  workers are estimating that the suicide rate among
women, who cannot

  find proper medication and treatment for severe
depression and would

  rather take their lives than live in such
conditions, has increased

  significantly.

  Homes where a woman is present must have their
windows painted so that

  she can never be seen by outsiders. They must wear
silent shoes so that they

  are never heard. Women live in fear of their lives
for the slightest

  misbehavior. Because they cannot work, those without
male relatives or

  husbands are either starving to death or begging on
the street, even if

  they hold Ph.D.'s. There are almost no medical
facilities available for

  women, and relief workers, in protest, have mostly
left the country, taking

  medicine and psychologists and other things
necessary to treat the

  skyrocketing level of depression among women.

  At one of the rare hospitals for women, a reporter
found still, nearly

  lifeless bodies lying motionless on top of beds,
wrapped in their

  burqua, unwilling to speak, eat, or do anything, but
slowly wasting away.

  Others

  have gone mad and were seen crouched in corners,
perpetually rocking or

  crying, most of them in fear. One doctor is
considering, when what little

  medication that is left finally runs out, leaving
these women in front of

  the president's residence as a form of peaceful
protest.

  It is at the point where the term 'human rights
violations' has become an

  understatement. the power of life and death over
their women relatives,

  especially their wives, but an angry mob has just as
much right to stone or

  beat a woman, often to death, for exposing an inch
of flesh or offending

  them in the slightest way. Women enjoyed relative
freedom, to work,

  dress generally as they wanted, and drive and appear
in public alone until

  only 1996.

  The rapidity of this transition is the main reason
for the depression and

  suicide; women who were once educators or doctors or
simply used to basic

  human freedoms are now severely restricted and
treated as subhuman in the

  name of right-wing fundamentalist Islam. It is not
their tradition or

  'culture,' but is alien to them, and it is extreme
even for those cultures

  where fundamentalism is the rule. Everyone has a
right to a tolerable

  human existence, even if they are women in a Muslim
country. If we can

  threaten military force in Kosovo in the name of
human rights for the sake
  of

  ethnic Albanians, citizens of the world can
certainly express peaceful
  outrage

  at the oppression, murder and injustice committed
against women by the

  Taliban.

  STATEMENT: In signing this, we agree that the
current treatment of women

  in Afghanistan is completely UNACCEPTABLE and
deserves support and action

  by the United Nations and that the current situation
overseas will not be

  tolerated. Women's Rights is not a small issue
anywhere and it is

  UNACCEPTABLE for women in 2000 to be treated as
sub-human and so much as



  property. Equality and human decency is a RIGHT not
a freedom, whether

  one lives in Afghanistan or elsewhere.



  1) Suzanne Dathe, Grenoble, France

  2) Laurence COMPARAT, Grenoble,France

  3) Philippe MOTTE, Grenoble, France

  4) Jok FERRAND, Mont St Martin, France

  5) Emmanuelle PIGNOL, St Martin d'Heres, FRANCE

  6) Marie GAUTHIER, Grenoble, FRANCE

  7) Laurent VESCALO, Grenoble,FRANCE

  8) Mathieu MOY, St Egreve, FRANCE

  9) Bernard BLANCHET, Mont St Martin, FRANCE

  10) Tassadite FAVRIE, Grenoble, FRANCE

  11) Loic GODARD, St Ismier, FRANCE

  12) Benedicte PASCAL, Grenoble, FRANCE

  13) Khedaidja BENATIA, Grenoble, FRANCE

  14) Marie-Therese LLORET, Grenoble,FRANCE

  15) Benoit THEAU, Poitiers, FRANCE

  16) Bruno CONSTANTIN, Poitiers, FRANCE

  17) Christian COGNARD, Poitiers, FRANCE

  18) Robert GARDETTE, Paris, FRANCE

  19) Claude CHEVILLARD, Montpellier, FRANCE

  20) Gilles FREISS, Montpellier, FRANCE

  21) Patrick AUGEREAU, Montpellier, FRANCE.

  22) Jean IMBERT, Marseille, FRANCE

  23) Jean-Claude MURAT, Toulouse, France

  24) Anna BASSOLS, Barcelona, Spain

  25) Mireia DUNACH, Barcelona, Spain

  26) Michel VILLAZ, Grenoble, France

  27) Pages Frederique, Dijon, France

  28) Rodolphe FISCHMEISTER, Chatenay-Malabry, France

  29) Francois BOUTEAU, Paris, France

  30) Patrick PETER, Paris, France

  31) Lorenza RADICI, Paris, France

  32) Monika Siegenthaler, Bern, Switzerland

  33) Mark Philp, Glasgow, Scotland

  34) Tomas Andersson, Stockholm, Sweden

  35) Jonas Eriksson, Stockholm, Sweden

  36) Karin Eriksson, Stockholm, Sweden

  37) Ake Ljung, Stockholm, Sweden

  38) Carina Sedlmayer, Stockholm, Sweden

  39) Rebecca Uddman, Stockholm, Sweden

  40) Lena Skog, Stockholm, Sweden

  41) Micael Folke, Stockholm, Sweden

  42) Britt-Marie Folke, Stockholm, Sweden

  43) Birgitta Schuberth, Stockholm, Sweden

  44) Lena Dahl, Stockholm, Sweden

  45) Ebba Karlsson, Stockholm, Sweden

  46) Jessica Carlsson, Vaxjo, Sweden

  47) Sara Blomquist, Vaxjo, Sweden

  48) Magdalena Fosseus, Vaxjo, Sweden

  49) Charlotta Langner, Goteborg, Sweden

  50) Andrea Egedal, Goteborg, Sweden

  51) Lena Persson, Stockholm, Sweden

  52) Magnus Linder, Umea ,Sweden

  53) Petra Olofsson, Umea, Sweden

  54) Caroline Evenbom, Vaxjo, Sweden

  55) Asa Pettersson, Grimsas, Sweden

  56) Jessica Bjork, Grimsas, Sweden

  57) Linda Ahlbom Goteborg, Sweden

  58) Jenny Forsman, Boras, Sweden

  59) Nina Gunnarson, Kinna, Sweden

  60) Andrew Harrison, New Zealand

  61) Bryre Murphy, New Zealand

  62) Claire Lugton, New Zealand

  63) Sarah Thornton, New Zealand

  64) Rachel Eade, New Zealand

  65) Magnus Hjert, London, UK

  67) Madeleine Stamvik, Hurley, UK

  68) Susanne Nowlan, Vermont, USA

  69) Lotta Svenby, Malmoe, Sweden

  70) Adina Giselsson, Malmoe, Sweden

  71) Anders Kullman, Stockholm, Sweden

  72) Rebecka Swane, Stockholm,Sweden

  73) Jens Venge, Stockholm, Sweden

  74) Catharina Ekdahl, Stockholm, Sweden

  75) Nina Fylkegard, Stockholm, Sweden

  76) Therese Stedman, Malmoe, Sweden

  77) Jannica Lund, Stockholm, Sweden

  78) Douglas Bratt

  79) Mats Lofstrom, Stockholm, Sweden

  80) Li Lindstrom, Sweden

  81) Ursula Mueller, Sweden

  82) Marianne Komstadius, Stockholm, Sweden

  83) Peter Thyselius, Stockholm, Sweden

  84) Gonzalo Oviedo, Quito, Ecuador

  85) Amalia Romeo, Gland, Switzerland

  86) Margarita Restrepo, Gland, Switzerland

  87) Eliane Ruster, Crans p.C., Switzerland

  88) Jennifer Bischoff-Elder, Hong Kong

  89) Azita Lashgari, Beirut, Lebanon

  90) Khashayar Ostovany, New York, USA

  91) Lisa L Miller, Reno NV

  92) Danielle Avazian, Los Angeles, CA

  93) Sara Risher, Los Angeles, Ca.

  94) Melanie London, New York, NY

  95) Susan Brownstein , Los Angeles, CA

  96) Steven Raspa, San Francisco, CA

  97) Margot Duane, Ross, CA

  98) Natasha Darnall, Los Angeles, CA

  99) Candace Brower, Evanston, IL

  100) James Kjelland, Evanston, IL

  101) Michael Jampole, Beach Park, IL, USA

  102) Diane Willis, Wilmette, IL, USA

  103) Sharri Russell, Roanoke, VA, USA

  104) Faye Cooley, Roanoke, VA, USA

  105) Celeste Thompson, Round Rock, TX, USA

  106) Sherry Stang, Pflugerville, TX, USA

  107) Amy J. Singer, Pflugerville, TX USA

  108) Milissa Bowen, Austin, TX USA

  109) Michelle Jozwiak, Brenham, TX USA

  110) Mary Orsted, College Station, TX USA

  111) Janet Gardner, Dallas, TX USA

  112) Marilyn Hollingsworth, Dallas, TX USA

  113) Nancy Shamblin, Garland. TX USA

  114) K. M. Mullen, Houston, TX - USA

  115) Noreen Tolman, Houston, Texas - USA

  116) Judy Bechtel, Merced, CA - USA

  117) Delores Iliff, FL, USA

  118) Nicole Propper, FL, USA

  119) Bonnie LaChance, FL, USA

  120) JoAnn Blades, FL, USA

  121) Pam Blades, FL, USA

  122) Louise Campbell, FL, USA

  123) Marcy DeSanto, FL, USA

  124) Donald Blades, FL,USA

  125) Tom LaChance, FL, USA

  126) Craig Huff, GA, USA

  127) Karen Huff, FL, USA

  128) Paul Jarrell, Wadsworth, OH - USA

  129) Ian Austin , TRINIDAD  TOBAGO

  130) Germaine Maxwell, POS, TRINIDAD  TOBAGO

  131) Phyllis Serrao, TRINIDAD  TOBAGO

  132) Max Serrao, TRINIDAD  TOBAGO

  133) Lynn Waldron. TRINIDAD  TOBAGO

  134) Carole Carmichael, TRINIDAD  TOBAGO

  135) Denise Clarke, TRINIDAD  TOBAGO

  136) Lisa Boisson, TRINIDAD  TOBAGO

  137) Yvonne Roberts-White, TRINIDAD TOBAGO

  137) Eileen Roberts, TRINIDAD  TOBAGO

  138) Elizabeth Chin Aleong, British Virgin Islands

  139) Joy Ramlogan, TRINIDAD  TOBAGO

  140) Eriko Togo, DC, USA

  141) Luca F. Mezzomo, ITALY

  142) Luigi Ruggerone, ITALY

  143) Gabriele Parenti, ITALY

  144) Alessandro Delia-Russell, ITALYn

  145) Cristiana Vitale, ITALY

  146) Cristina Davies, Egypt

  147) Noha Bawazir, Lebanon

  148) Carlos Milani, France

  149) Andrea Moraes, Brasil

  150) Luiz Eduardo Braga, Brasil

  151) Debbie Andree, AZ USA

  152) Klemens Arnarson, Iceland

  153) Eva Ros Johannsdottir, Iceland

  154) Helga Benediktsdottir, Iceland

  155) Sigridur Benediktsdottir, Iceland

  156) Arnar Geirsson, Iceland

  157) Tryggvi Helgason, Iceland

  158) Samuel J. Samuelsson, Iceland

  159) Sigurbj?rn Sveinsson, Iceland

  160) Gunnar M. Sandholt, Iceland

  161) Gudmundur Einarsson, Iceland

  161) Logi Jonsson, Iceland

  162) Gudrun petursdottir, Iceland

  163) Andre Joyal, QuÈbec

  164) Robert David, QuÈbec, Canada

  165) Olga Gladkikh, Antigonish, Canada

  166) Suzanne Huett, Halifax, Canada

  167) Heather Myers, Antigonish, Canada

  168) Chris Storseth, Antigonish, Canada

  169) Fred Freundlich, Spain

  170) Matt Gerber, New York, USA

  171) Susan Holzman, New York, USA

  172) Margot Atlas, Great Neck, NY, USA

  173) Mark Atlas, Great Neck, NY USA

  174) Ann Harada, New York, NY, USA

  175) Heather Webber, Salem, OR, USA

  176) Angus Webber, Salem, OR, USA

  177) Audrey Silver Levin, New York, NY, USA

  178) Lauren Howard Coleman, New York, NY, USA

  179) James A. Coleman, New York, NY, USA

  180) Kara Martinez Weilding, Brooklyn, NY, USA

  181) Christopher Weilding, Brooklyn, NY, USA

  182) Odin Townley, New York, NY USA

  183) Henry Barbey, New York,NY USA

  184) Pete Elder, Carmel, NY USA

  185) Melanie Sooter, Lawrence, KS USA

  186) Diana Morton

  187) Kristine Stumm, Denver, CO, USA

  188) Lianne Meyer, Denver, CO, USA

  189) Esther Son, Denver, CO, USA

  190) Jenny Geiser, Denver, CO, USA

  191) Elaine Bacon, Ft. Thomas, KY, USA

  192) Christina Gilardi, Cincinnati, OH, USA

  193) Delilah Schermer, Cincinnati, OH, USA

  194) Donna Denny, Batesville, IN, USA

  195) Theadell Brown, Chicago, Il, USA

  196) Britton Garnjost, New Paltz, NY, USA

  197) Tanvi Kachhy, Bay Shore, NY, USA

  198) Payal Mistry, Boston, MA, USA

  199) Manjula Nair, Boston, MA, USA

  200) Kendra W. Marshall Boston, MA

  201) Jeremy C. Franz Boston, MA
  203) Dan Sumner New Orleans, LA



  PLEASE COPY this email on to a new message, sign the
bottom and forward

  it to everyone on your distribution lists. If you
receive this list with

  more than 200 names on it, please e-mail a copy of
it to:


  sarabande@brandeis.edu
mailto:sarabande@brandeis.edu


  Even if you decide not to sign, please be
considerate and

  do not kill the petition.


  Thank you.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  1 16:59:46 2000
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From: PERILLE <perille@club-internet.fr>
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> >     The MC50 controls my Sp-808, 2 Korg X5DR's, a Korg NS5R, a Korg D8 
> > digital multitrack, a Digitech Studio Vocalist, an Akai S01 Sampler, a Roland 
> > JS30 sampler, a Zoom ST-224 Sampler and my Yamaha ProMix 01 (I love watching 
> 

> Which French food specifically would you recommend?  pate du fois gras? 
> outre?  fusillier mitraileuse (sp?)  char moyen (?)
> 

Instead of always eating some well known sushi samplers, I would also
recommend to check out my specialite du chef, le looper a la DJRND2

Very delicious indeed !

And you can cook everything in loops, it is immediate and very testy to
play with !

This french recipie can be found at http://web.club-internet.fr/perille

Emmanuel

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Organization: Rogue Music
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Auction ends tonight at 8:33 PM EST, current high bid $330.
http://auctionsoup.com/index.cfm?Page=item.cfm&ItemID=35501
Please visit

Dick Michaels
Rogue Music NYC
http://www.roguemusic.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  1 17:29:49 2000
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At 11:18 AM -0800 2/1/00, dan sumner wrote:
>  The government of Afghanistan is waging a war upon
>women. Since the

yeah, like sticking your name on the bottom of a chain email is going to
have a big affect on the Taliban.

this is a well-known urban legend:
http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/culture/urbanlegends/library/blafghan.htm


Please don't ever, ever, ever spam the list with this type of thing!

You can be 100% certain that anything telling you to "forward it to
everyone you know" is BS. They are either hoaxes or attempts to harrass
some poor person who's email address has been placed in it as the recipient
of all the replies. (as this one was.)  No matter what, they don't belong
on mailing lists!

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | 


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  1 18:03:15 2000
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From: jo@numerica.it
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To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
References: <3896BB75.1EE2@club-internet.fr>
Subject: R: Sushi ...what about italian food?
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:10:33 +0100
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tell me something more about using samplers as loopers.
I love looping in real time, it seems more "honest" to me.
Anyway, especially in structured composition, I miss having  loops perfect
in the time and in the expression.
It is very interesting  make a sequencer change the different sampled loops
to play on.
I use an Edp, a Digitech 2101, a boss gx700, a gtr4000.
I never considered a sampler because I'd prefer not to add complexity to my
system, but I really would like to know something more from someone who
experience it.

Thanks,
and try italian food (with italian wine).
Luca
----- Original Message -----
From: PERILLE <perille@club-internet.fr>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 11:54 AM
Subject: Sushi


> >     The MC50 controls my Sp-808, 2 Korg X5DR's, a Korg NS5R, a Korg D8
> > digital multitrack, a Digitech Studio Vocalist, an Akai S01 Sampler, a
Roland
> > JS30 sampler, a Zoom ST-224 Sampler and my Yamaha ProMix 01 (I love
watching
>
> Sushi, Sushi, Sushi ...
>
> French food could be also good sometime, why don't you try it for once
>
> Emmanuel
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  1 17:48:33 2000
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Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 18:27:21 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Patrick Smith <patrick@his.com>
Subject: JAM MAN Auction closing
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The Jam AMn for auction over at Rogue Music closes this evening. Check it
out if interested at:

http://www.auctionsoup.com

Look under signal processors...

Patrick
                     Fingerpaint's New Release:

                            IN THE LOOP

      ... an intelligent, stimulating mixture of mimimaist spacebeats and
           obscure samples layered upon a hypnotic illbient backdrop.

                       DIGITAL ARTIFACT # 12

                      http://www.fingerpaint.net

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  1 18:48:06 2000
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Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 18:28:10 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Tim Nelson <tcn62@ici.net>
Subject: Re: R: Sushi ...what about italian food?
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At 11:10 PM 2/1/00 +0100, you wrote:
>and try italian food (with italian wine).
>Luca

To remain consistent with the "electronic musical equipment represented by
foods of the country of origin" metaphor, how does it bode for the EDP that
while Oberheim went Italian (sort of), the EDP has become TE's fish'n'chips?

Tim

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From: Nemoguitt@aol.com
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Subject: Re: R: Sushi ...what about italian food?
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In a message dated 2/1/00 9:03:14 PM Mid-Atlantic Standard Time, 
jo@numerica.it writes:

<< I love looping in real time, it seems more "honest" to me.
 Anyway, especially in structured composition, I miss having  loops perfect
 in the time and in the expression. >>

luca.......i think the sample feeds the loop.......and the loop allows the 
sample to grow.......huh?.......:)........michael

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  1 19:50:36 2000
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Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 11:37:14 +1100
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i wrote:

> 
> polyp messiah ---
> tuesday 8th of feb @ Planet cafe, Brunswick st.
>

that would be melbourne, australia btw

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  1 20:07:35 2000
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you tell them Kim!!!!!!!!!!!!

no heartbleading crap in this email group.


----- Original Message -----
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: the taliban is scared now!


> At 11:18 AM -0800 2/1/00, dan sumner wrote:
> >  The government of Afghanistan is waging a war upon
> >women. Since the
>
> yeah, like sticking your name on the bottom of a chain email is going to
> have a big affect on the Taliban.
>
> this is a well-known urban legend:
> http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/culture/urbanlegends/library/blafghan.htm
>
>
> Please don't ever, ever, ever spam the list with this type of thing!
>
> You can be 100% certain that anything telling you to "forward it to
> everyone you know" is BS. They are either hoaxes or attempts to harrass
> some poor person who's email address has been placed in it as the
recipient
> of all the replies. (as this one was.)  No matter what, they don't belong
> on mailing lists!
>
> kim
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
> kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
> http://www.annihilist.com/  |
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  1 20:21:33 2000
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From: PMimlitsch@aol.com
Message-ID: <5f.f4b79c.25c8de75@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 20:12:21 EST
Subject: vortex sighting
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For those interested. In my recent travels spotted a new Vortex at Moe's 
Music, Virginia Beach Blvd., Va. Beach, Va.  $269.00 You'll have to call 
information 'cause I've lost the phone number, sorry.

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  1 20:28:34 2000
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From: PMimlitsch@aol.com
Message-ID: <13.d403cf.25c8e02b@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 20:19:39 EST
Subject: fretless/ microtonality
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, taptalk@progrock.net
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Recently picked up an Ashbory bass.  Looks like a toy but has a great sound - 
double bass to punchy fretless to unique "rubber bandiness" - and it's fun to 
play.  Been exploring all sorts of wierd(?)/interesting microtonal 
slides/slurs loopage. Check it out.  

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  1 23:47:47 2000
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From: Hawkeye255@aol.com
Message-ID: <32.b004c0.25c90d49@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 23:32:09 EST
Subject: Re: R: Sushi ...what about italian food?
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<< I love looping in real time, it seems more "honest" to me. >>

btw: nothing is made beforehand except the template sequences.  The sounds 
are looped live, then sampled.  I love doing it this way, it seems so much 
more dishonest to me. ;-)

If I don't like the way the sequence template is working with my new 
loops/samples (which happened once), I simply mute all the tracks but 16 
(control track for the mixer's faders) and play (trigger) the samples using 
the pads.  Again, it works much more simply than it sounds.  And, like most 
things, timing is everything.  Practice makes "mo' better da kind, brudda."  

    hawkeye

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From: Hawkeye255@aol.com
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<< tell me something more about using samplers as loopers. >>

Live, house lights dim, stage lights up and...I create a loop in the Headrush 
(single layer, multi-layer, whatever).  When I like it, I sample it.  It's 
pretty crucial to hit it "right-on" time-wise.  Otherwise, I sample it again, 
the next time around.  All the while the loop is continuing to play to the 
audience.  With my single headphone I check the sample to make certain it's 
acceptable.  Then I kill the llayers in the Headrush returning back to the 
solo first loop, usually a rhythmic of some sort.  Add different layers to 
it.  And when I like that, I sample it too.  At some point I improvise a sort 
of "bridge as I kill or silence the loop in the Akai completely.  Then hit 
sample 1.  I can now make new loops and continue this process on ad infinitum 
et nauseum.  Bringing in the samples (of my live loops) as I need to.  
    The sequences are merely templates for the time when several samples have 
been recorded.  I then let it (the sequencer) take over.  I lay down the 
guitar, walk out to a table and join the people sitting there and order a 
glass of beer (usually).  The sequencer (set at somewhere between 10 and 20 
bpm) also has track 16 recorded strictly for control of the mixer.  This 
means that when sample 1 is beginning a slow fade, sample 2 (et al.) are 
slowly coming in.  Since the sequence is a template there's a great 
randomness of patterns (loops).  Hope that makes some sense.  Easier to show 
than describe.
    hawkeye

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Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 21:45:35 -0800
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: R: Sushi ...what about italian food?
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At 8:25 PM -0800 2/1/00, Hawkeye255@aol.com wrote:
><< tell me something more about using samplers as loopers. >>
>
>Live, house lights dim, stage lights up and...I create a loop in the Headrush
>(single layer, multi-layer, whatever).  When I like it, I sample it.  It's
>pretty crucial to hit it "right-on" time-wise.  Otherwise, I sample it again,
>the next time around.  All the while the loop is continuing to play to the
>audience.  With my single headphone I check the sample to make certain it's
>acceptable.  Then I kill the llayers in the Headrush returning back to the
>solo first loop, usually a rhythmic of some sort.  Add different layers to
>it.  And when I like that, I sample it too.  At some point I improvise a sort
>of "bridge as I kill or silence the loop in the Akai completely.  Then hit
>sample 1.  I can now make new loops and continue this process on ad infinitum
>et nauseum.  Bringing in the samples (of my live loops) as I need to.

sounds like a complicated way to do what the echoplex does easily with
multiple loops and loop copy functions. :-)  But however you do it, the
basic idea is something I like very much. Taking a basic loop, then
creating many variations on it into different loops, all in real time, then
switching between them. It gives you a lot of opportunity to improvise and
loop in a more compositional way.


>    The sequences are merely templates for the time when several samples have
>been recorded.  I then let it (the sequencer) take over.  I lay down the
>guitar, walk out to a table and join the people sitting there and order a
>glass of beer (usually).  The sequencer (set at somewhere between 10 and 20
>bpm) also has track 16 recorded strictly for control of the mixer.  This
>means that when sample 1 is beginning a slow fade, sample 2 (et al.) are
>slowly coming in.  Since the sequence is a template there's a great
>randomness of patterns (loops).  Hope that makes some sense.  Easier to show
>than describe.

great, I like that idea.  Maybe the next step is to create the sequences on
the fly as well!

One thing I've also had some fun with is making a simple max patch that
triggers a randomly different loop at a steady tempo. On the echoplex I do
this by filling all the loops up and triggering them with Midi notes from
my max patch. Usually you trigger loops by always having them start at the
beginning, but one of the echoplex's sampler modes has it trigger at the
point where you left it before. Generally I don't use that mode for loop
triggering, but in this case I do. I set it to this one (samplerstyle=run)
and generally use longer samples in each loop than the tempo at which max
is triggering them. This way, each trigger plays a little bit of the sample
in the loop, then leaves it for a different loop. When it comes back to the
first loop, it plays the next little bit of the sample instead of repeating
what it played before.

The result is a constant evolution, where the sequence continues to change.
Each time you come back to a given loop, it is in a different place than it
was before. And since they are triggering at random, maybe one loop gets
chosen several times in a period while another only gets triggered once, so
they move through the samples to relatively different places. Another
degree of change....

You set your sequencer to trigger really slow, while I like to set it ultra
fast! In fact it becomes a granular thing. I like to set the max patch for
this setup to trigger loops every 1 or 2 millisecond, so the little random
fragments of each loop that get played are all strung together into it's
own waveform, creating some really interesting new textures. Depending on
what is recorded in the loops, the result is completely different. lots o'
fun!

and speaking of sushi, pasta, escargot, etc., if you want your loops to be
phat, it's gotta be an American sampler. :-)


kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | 


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  2 02:08:41 2000
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  at this hour of the night all I can thing of is a brand new EDP and a
Sherman filterbank plugged into it...

 now I´ve reach it...

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  2 07:30:17 2000
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Subject: Re: R: Sushi ...what about italian food?
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Hi kim,
It is very interesting what you are describing here. But what is a maxi
patch? If you don´t mind me asking once again i would like to know what kind
of equipment you are using to create and manipulate your loops. I know I´ve
asked this before and didn´t get a response but all i am triying to do is
get more acquainted with equipment and ways people are conecting things
together.By the way thanks very much for answering my last e-mail about EDP
noise, i cleaned up the EDP overdub input and the noise is gone!
L.A.
>
> One thing I've also had some fun with is making a simple max patch that
> triggers a randomly different loop at a steady tempo.

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  2 08:34:22 2000
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From: Texture444@aol.com
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Subject: Re: R: Sushi ...what about italian food?
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hawkeye, kim, et al:
<<original msgs eaten by aol>>
along these same (revivifying) lines:
i've been loading loops/audiobits into software called 'Reaktor' (though i've yet to do this 'live'..... waiting for NativeInstruments to implement audio-*input* on the Mac version).
of late, i've most often been using a seqencer+LFO-driven 'granulator', wherein grain triggering/length/samplestart/smoothing/pitch/release/etc. are locked to the clock of a kinda old-schooly-step-sequencer-thang (whose clock can, of course, be slaved to an external.....)
the original 'ensemble'(NI's lingo for 'preset', or macros'n'objects-what-been-strung-together) -freeware- was writ by one uwe hoenig, though i've modified my one a tad.
Native Instruments:
http://www.native-instruments.com/0_start/index.html
really good fun!
best,
dt

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  2 10:38:39 2000
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From: Joseph Long <joelong@cisco.com>
Subject: Looking to see Live Performers..
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Hey Loopers....

Sorry about the wide distribution, but I thought this would be the best way
to find an answer.....

Are there any performing loopers out there in the Boston area? I am looking
to see some shows with looping content (preferably with acoustic
instrumentation). 

Thanks,

-Joe
                   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                            CHECK OUT BOSTONS PREMIERE FUNK AND DANCE BAND
                                         www.funky-town.com

                                ****************************************
                          

                                       "GET DOWN WITH FUNKYTOWN"    
                   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  2 13:32:17 2000
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From: JTstudio66@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 13:13:37 EST
Subject: DFX94 4 second sampler
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Anyone have any advise on using a DOD DFX94 4 second delay/sampler? I just 
got a hold of one and am new to sampling so any info would help out.

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  2 13:48:05 2000
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From: "Taaffe, Denis G" <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Looking to see Live Performers..
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 13:24:35 -0500 
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WEll,
	I'm not frm boston but I am doing a live looping guitar gig tonight
at the Encore,cafe bloomington, IN from 7-9. Do you want directions ? haha.
Well it should be a good show. I'm not sure how people will receive it
though.

Denis

Denis Taaffe
denis_aliengtr@geocities.com
http://www.dtguitar.com

-

 I am looking
to see some shows with looping content 

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  2 14:02:44 2000
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Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 10:34:18 -0800
Subject: Re: R: Sushi ...what about italian food?
From: Andrew Pask <andrew@kaleidacousticon.com>
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A Max patch is a program written in the computer
language Max, which is specifically designed
for use with MIDI and digital audio.
It works entirely in real time.
If you're patient enough, stress the word
patient again,  maybe give the ol' word "patient"
another nudge, you can learn MAX to the extent
that you'll never need a sequencer or effects
or samplers or anything else ever again.
But you have to be kinda patient with it.
And you need a Mac.

Cheers


Andrew

> From: L.Angulo@t-online.de (Luis Angulo)
> Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 13:29:11 +0100
> To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
> Subject: Re: R: Sushi ...what about italian food?
> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 07:30:17 -0500
> 
> Hi kim,
> It is very interesting what you are describing here. But what is a maxi
> patch? If you don´t mind me asking once again i would like to know what kind
> of equipment you are using to create and manipulate your loops. I know I´ve
> asked this before and didn´t get a response but all i am triying to do is
> get more acquainted with equipment and ways people are conecting things
> together.By the way thanks very much for answering my last e-mail about EDP
> noise, i cleaned up the EDP overdub input and the noise is gone!
> L.A.
>> 
>> One thing I've also had some fun with is making a simple max patch that
>> triggers a randomly different loop at a steady tempo.
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  2 14:45:05 2000
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From: "Dennis W. Leas" <dennis@mdbs.com>
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Subject: Re: Looking to see Live Performers..
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Bloomington, IN?  I'm up here in Lafayette, IN.  We should trade looping gigs or
at least recordings of live shows.  Interested?

Dennis Leas
-----------------------------
dennis@mdbs.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Taaffe, Denis G <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
To: 'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com' <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 2:06 PM
Subject: RE: Looking to see Live Performers..


>WEll,
> I'm not frm boston but I am doing a live looping guitar gig tonight
>at the Encore,cafe bloomington, IN from 7-9. Do you want directions ? haha.
>Well it should be a good show. I'm not sure how people will receive it
>though.
>
>Denis
>
>Denis Taaffe
>denis_aliengtr@geocities.com
>http://www.dtguitar.com
>
>-
>
> I am looking
>to see some shows with looping content
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  2 14:50:50 2000
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From: "MediaOne" <clifsound@mediaone.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
References: <44.16f1911.25c98a47@aol.com>
Subject: Re: R: Sushi ...what about italian food?
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:32:04 -0800
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I LOVE Reaktor! The ability to dial out all the latency on a Windows based
system is great! Plus the sounds are terrific too- Turned my cheapo midi
controller and old ass audio card into the bomb underneath my fingertips! I
am very fond of "Dual VCO" and another called Plasma- Thanks for the link-
will be looking into that when I get home from werk~

Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: <Texture444@aol.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 5:25 AM
Subject: Re: R: Sushi ...what about italian food?


> hawkeye, kim, et al:
> <<original msgs eaten by aol>>
> along these same (revivifying) lines:
> i've been loading loops/audiobits into software called 'Reaktor' (though
i've yet to do this 'live'..... waiting for NativeInstruments to implement
audio-*input* on the Mac version).
> of late, i've most often been using a seqencer+LFO-driven 'granulator',
wherein grain triggering/length/samplestart/smoothing/pitch/release/etc. are
locked to the clock of a kinda old-schooly-step-sequencer-thang (whose clock
can, of course, be slaved to an external.....)
> the original 'ensemble'(NI's lingo for 'preset', or
macros'n'objects-what-been-strung-together) -freeware- was writ by one uwe
hoenig, though i've modified my one a tad.
> Native Instruments:
> http://www.native-instruments.com/0_start/index.html
> really good fun!
> best,
> dt
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  2 15:02:32 2000
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From: "L Tremblay" <ltct@concentric.net>
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Subject: Re: Looking to see Live Performers..
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 14:45:46 -0500
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Denis, just curious...

Lately, I have thinking about crawling out of my
self-imposed exile and doing a few local loop
performances. My question is, how do you approach
a venue owner and convince them that they need a
looper to entertain their paying customers?

I suppose a demo and bio would suffice, and probably
performing for close to nothing.

Again, just curious.

Thanks,

Larry T


-----Original Message-----
From: Taaffe, Denis G <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
To: 'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com' <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 2:22 PM
Subject: RE: Looking to see Live Performers..


>WEll,
> I'm not frm boston but I am doing a live looping guitar gig tonight
>at the Encore,cafe bloomington, IN from 7-9. Do you want directions ? haha.
>Well it should be a good show. I'm not sure how people will receive it
>though.
>
>Denis
>
>Denis Taaffe
>denis_aliengtr@geocities.com
>http://www.dtguitar.com
>
>-
>
> I am looking
>to see some shows with looping content
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  2 15:29:35 2000
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Subject: R: R: Sushi ...what about italian food?
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 20:58:22 +0100
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Was it me the only looper using no samplers?
Very interesting the situation, there is something fresh in the air...
Perille, what is DJRND2? (and thanks for the invitation !)
Tim, it's my disaster! I am waiting my edp back from Gibson where i sent it
on July the 14th for fixing under warranty. Any has seen it somewhere? maybe
it is flying back and forth from Gibson to Trace Elliot! ...since 7 months.
Michael, I agree with you. Plus I think feeding (with food, with ideas, with
affect...) is the most important thing.

Anyway I think I am going to explore this new part of the sea with samplers.
Can we make a chart of which samplers and sequencer (if the use of my Roland
VS 840 ex is not helping in this case) are the most suggested from this
list?
We can consider samplers with their own hardware or as pc programs.
I would really appreciate this help from you.

For me looping is a reflection of my thoughts.
Make them looping is the inner sense of make an idea grow without loosing
its root and see how much the tree can go high, until it finds that a leave
can become the soil for a new birth.

I love sushi.
Luca


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Subject: Re: DFX94 4 second sampler - One for the archives
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HOW TO USE THE DFX-94 FOR LOOPING:

Most delay functions are pretty self-explanatory, so I'll
assume you mean how to use it for sampling, and then
triggering the sample during performance.

Here we go (with the manual in front of me):

1. Select the SAMPLE position on the RANGE/MODE switch.
   In this mode the BYPASS fotswitch becomes the SAMPLE
   footswitch only.

2. Adjust the amount of delay time you want with the
   DELAY control.

3. When you're ready to sample, tap the footswitch.
   The INFINITE REPEAT/SAMPLE LED light will go *OUT*.
   The unit is *now* sampling whatever you play into it.
   The LED comes back *ON* when the sample record time is
   done. (If you're plaing along at home, the unit is
   finished sampling what ever you played into it).

4. Select the TRIGGER position on the RANGE/MODE switch. In
   this mode the BYPASS footswitch becomes the SAMPLE
   TRIGGER footswitch only. The unit is now ready for
   triggering.

5. Whenever you want to TRIGGER the playback of
   your recorded sample sound, tap the footswitch.

With practice (trial and lots of error), by putting
the unit into and out of SAMPLE RECORD for one cycle,
you can layer more lines onto the previously sampled
sound (after a while though, quality deteriorates).

After recording a sampled sound, you can also turn the
RANGE/MODE switch to INFINITE REPEAT and play back a
repeating loop (the whole point, right?) of your
recorded sample.

That should help, I hope.

- Larry T

-----Original Message-----
From: JTstudio66@aol.com <JTstudio66@aol.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 2:13 PM
Subject: DFX94 4 second sampler


>Anyone have any advise on using a DOD DFX94 4 second delay/sampler? I just
>got a hold of one and am new to sampling so any info would help out.
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  2 15:19:19 2000
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From: "Dennis W. Leas" <dennis@mdbs.com>
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Subject: Re: R: Sushi ...what about italian food?
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Is that "patient" as in "I need a Doctor...in psychiatry!"

Dennis Leas
-----------------------------
dennis@mdbs.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Pask <andrew@kaleidacousticon.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: R: Sushi ...what about italian food?


>A Max patch is a program written in the computer
>language Max, which is specifically designed
>for use with MIDI and digital audio.
>It works entirely in real time.
>If you're patient enough, stress the word
>patient again,  maybe give the ol' word "patient"
>another nudge, you can learn MAX to the extent
>that you'll never need a sequencer or effects
>or samplers or anything else ever again.
>But you have to be kinda patient with it.
>And you need a Mac.
>
>Cheers
>
>
>Andrew
>
>> From: L.Angulo@t-online.de (Luis Angulo)
>> Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>> Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 13:29:11 +0100
>> To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>> Subject: Re: R: Sushi ...what about italian food?
>> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>> Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 07:30:17 -0500
>>
>> Hi kim,
>> It is very interesting what you are describing here. But what is a maxi
>> patch? If you don´t mind me asking once again i would like to know what kind
>> of equipment you are using to create and manipulate your loops. I know I´ve
>> asked this before and didn´t get a response but all i am triying to do is
>> get more acquainted with equipment and ways people are conecting things
>> together.By the way thanks very much for answering my last e-mail about EDP
>> noise, i cleaned up the EDP overdub input and the noise is gone!
>> L.A.
>>>
>>> One thing I've also had some fun with is making a simple max patch that
>>> triggers a randomly different loop at a steady tempo.
>>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  2 16:22:22 2000
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From: "Liebig, Steuart A." <LiebigSA@Maritz.com>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Looking to see Live Performers..
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 15:45:53 -0500 
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don't you think that it comes down to finding a venue that does music
somewhat similar to what you're doing (which means that you may have to
search it out and hear what other people are doing) and then speaking with
the booker???

stig


Lately, I have thinking about crawling out of my
self-imposed exile and doing a few local loop
performances. My question is, how do you approach
a venue owner and convince them that they need a
looper to entertain their paying customers?

I suppose a demo and bio would suffice, and probably
performing for close to nothing.

Again, just curious.

Thanks,

Larry T

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  2 18:36:05 2000
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From: "future perfect" <artmusic@gte.net>
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Subject: RE: Looking to see Live Performers..
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 18:32:22 -0500
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Well a good idea (and I play a lot of coffeehouse/bookstore/museum/gallery
shows) is to get a tape together. When I approach someone who may hire me, I
always say my group plays 'guitar and flute music, with female vocals'. I
don't explain that I use looping, or guitar synth, or electric guitar (the
sound of all those things is what the tape is for).  I think people tend to
freak out if you say 'electronics', or 'ambient' or even 'new age' (I am
just talking with my experience, with my music). It is not really important
(to them) how you make the sounds-just that it won't scare people away.
Also, you don't have to play for nothing- choose the right venue (*very*
important) for your music- seek ones that regularly feature interesting
acts.

Dave Eichenberger- guitars/loops/devices
http://home1.gte.net/artmusic/dave


>
> Lately, I have thinking about crawling out of my
> self-imposed exile and doing a few local loop
> performances. My question is, how do you approach
> a venue owner and convince them that they need a
> looper to entertain their paying customers?
>
> I suppose a demo and bio would suffice, and probably
> performing for close to nothing.
>
> Again, just curious.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Larry T
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Taaffe, Denis G <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
> To: 'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com' <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
> Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 2:22 PM
> Subject: RE: Looking to see Live Performers..
>
>
> >WEll,
> > I'm not frm boston but I am doing a live looping guitar gig tonight
> >at the Encore,cafe bloomington, IN from 7-9. Do you want
> directions ? haha.
> >Well it should be a good show. I'm not sure how people will receive it
> >though.
> >
> >Denis
> >
> >Denis Taaffe
> >denis_aliengtr@geocities.com
> >http://www.dtguitar.com
> >
> >-
> >
> > I am looking
> >to see some shows with looping content
> >
> >
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  2 18:23:42 2000
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Kim Flint explained how he badly treats his echoplex by sending her 2ms
apart triggers
by midi <GG>

 
kim
these max experiments could be shared with us if you would be kind
enough to post a midifile copy on the loopers site 
thanks

the not so "abdominal muscles" trained
Claude

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  2 19:18:41 2000
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From: SketchyJoe@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 19:06:52 EST
Subject: OT:Chaos
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For some reason I thought I would through this out, especially after looking 
at the book liston the web site.  Even though it contains nothing musical 
whatsoever, the book Chaos by James Gleick has definitely changed my whole 
musical outlook.  The book is essentially a historical look on the 
developements of the Chaos theory.  Considering that all of us here work in a 
field that exploits random mutations of a system, I thought it would be a 
great addition to the reading list.  The book was recommended to me by 
percussion teacher who uses all sorts of phase manipulations and feedback 
scenarios to alter motives.

Also, similarly off topic, someone wrote to me regarding the digitech 
mail-list.  Please reply, I would like to get back on the 2112 list.  Thanks.

Later!
Joe 

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From: JTstudio66@aol.com
Message-ID: <d2.c9cefc.25ca2595@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 19:28:05 EST
Subject: Re: DFX94 4 second sampler - One for the archives
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Thanks for the info on the sampler Larry! Anyone have any recomendations for 
any guitar loop recordings I can download. 

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  2 21:03:51 2000
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Yes, the Gleick book is very good (though now somewhat dated). If you
enjoyed it you'll love "Complexity", a book by M. Mitchell Waldrop,
which picks up where Gleick left off.

Another area of interest to chaos and complexity theorists
is genetic algorithms - applying evolutionary algorithms to
problem solving - like music composition, for instance.
John H. Holland's book, "Emergence" is about the emergence
of order from disorder, and offers many insights into
what loopers do.

I'm glad to see that others are into this stuff, too.

Thanks,
- Larry T




>For some reason I thought I would through this out, especially after
looking
>at the book liston the web site.  Even though it contains nothing musical
>whatsoever, the book Chaos by James Gleick has definitely changed my whole
>musical outlook.  The book is essentially a historical look on the
>developements of the Chaos theory.  Considering that all of us here work in
a
>field that exploits random mutations of a system, I thought it would be a
>great addition to the reading list.  The book was recommended to me by
>percussion teacher who uses all sorts of phase manipulations and feedback
>scenarios to alter motives.
>
>Also, similarly off topic, someone wrote to me regarding the digitech
>mail-list.  Please reply, I would like to get back on the 2112 list.
Thanks.
>
>Later!
>Joe
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  2 20:51:54 2000
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From: "matt davignon" <mattdavignon@hotmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: DFX94 4 second sampler
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 17:42:44 PST
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>Anyone have any advise on using a DOD DFX94 4 second delay/sampler? I just
>got a hold of one and am new to sampling so any info would help out.
>

1) Don't use it just for guitar! It's good for anything!

2) Not a lot of loopers have an analog pitch wheel, but this one does.

3) "Repeat" indicates how many layers your sample or loop can have.

4) It's not really good for trying to get the timing of things to match up 
exactly, but it's great for creating interesting surprises simultaneously.

5) Try layering the same thing at different pitches and speeds, at different 
intervals.

6) If you loop a solid note on it, then you can play it like it's own 
instrument using the pitch wheel and the volume control.

7) You can also play it like an instrument by using the triggered sample 
playback (where you hit the pedal to play the sample) with the volume 
control.

8) It's the most useful squashbox you'll ever own! Don't ever mistake it for 
"another effect pedal"!

Anything more, and I'll be letting you in on my trade secrets.

good luck!

Matt Davignon
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Well, as I said, I've been out of it for a while. Naturally,
I'll check out the local venues...(Charlotte, NC, btw)

- Larry

-----Original Message-----
From: Liebig, Steuart A. <LiebigSA@Maritz.com>
To: 'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com' <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 4:46 PM
Subject: RE: Looking to see Live Performers..


>don't you think that it comes down to finding a venue that does music
>somewhat similar to what you're doing (which means that you may have to
>search it out and hear what other people are doing) and then speaking with
>the booker???
>
>stig
>
>
>Lately, I have thinking about crawling out of my
>self-imposed exile and doing a few local loop
>performances. My question is, how do you approach
>a venue owner and convince them that they need a
>looper to entertain their paying customers?
>
>I suppose a demo and bio would suffice, and probably
>performing for close to nothing.
>
>Again, just curious.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Larry T
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  2 20:57:01 2000
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From: "matt davignon" <mattdavignon@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: DFX94 4 second sampler - recordings
Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 17:49:48 PST
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>Thanks for the info on the sampler Larry! Anyone have any recomendations 
>for
>any guitar loop recordings I can download.
>

www.mp3.com/mattdavignon

The DFX 94 is used extensively in "Lazy Eye" (on records and CD's) and "A 
Small Explosion in Slow Motion" (on voice), as well as "5 Spots remix 5" 
(used for remixing).


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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From: "L Tremblay" <ltct@concentric.net>
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Subject: Re: Looking to see Live Performers..
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 20:44:10 -0500
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Thanks for the response. I knew I'd have to show
the tape around but wasn't sure about the disclosure
bit. In the past, I could easily lie my way into a
place. Things haven't changed that much, I see. ;-)

I'm going to start with the coffeebar/university/
bookstore thing first.

It's interesting to read the anecdotal stuff, too.

- Larry T

-----Original Message-----
From: future perfect <artmusic@gte.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 6:45 PM
Subject: RE: Looking to see Live Performers..


>Well a good idea (and I play a lot of coffeehouse/bookstore/museum/gallery
>shows) is to get a tape together. When I approach someone who may hire me,
I
>always say my group plays 'guitar and flute music, with female vocals'. I
>don't explain that I use looping, or guitar synth, or electric guitar (the
>sound of all those things is what the tape is for).  I think people tend to
>freak out if you say 'electronics', or 'ambient' or even 'new age' (I am
>just talking with my experience, with my music). It is not really important
>(to them) how you make the sounds-just that it won't scare people away.
>Also, you don't have to play for nothing- choose the right venue (*very*
>important) for your music- seek ones that regularly feature interesting
>acts.
>
>Dave Eichenberger- guitars/loops/devices
>http://home1.gte.net/artmusic/dave
>
>
>>
>> Lately, I have thinking about crawling out of my
>> self-imposed exile and doing a few local loop
>> performances. My question is, how do you approach
>> a venue owner and convince them that they need a
>> looper to entertain their paying customers?
>>
>> I suppose a demo and bio would suffice, and probably
>> performing for close to nothing.
>>
>> Again, just curious.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Larry T
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Taaffe, Denis G <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
>> To: 'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com' <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>> Date: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 2:22 PM
>> Subject: RE: Looking to see Live Performers..
>>
>>
>> >WEll,
>> > I'm not frm boston but I am doing a live looping guitar gig tonight
>> >at the Encore,cafe bloomington, IN from 7-9. Do you want
>> directions ? haha.
>> >Well it should be a good show. I'm not sure how people will receive it
>> >though.
>> >
>> >Denis
>> >
>> >Denis Taaffe
>> >denis_aliengtr@geocities.com
>> >http://www.dtguitar.com
>> >
>> >-
>> >
>> > I am looking
>> >to see some shows with looping content
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>

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In a message dated 2/2/00 8:43:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
ltct@concentric.net writes:

> Well, as I said, I've been out of it for a while. Naturally,
>  I'll check out the local venues...(Charlotte, NC, btw)
>  
i've played fat city in charlotte n.c. a few times ................... cool 
place .......... nice people ............. you should giv'em a call ......... 
brian
electric bird noise

sound etc. at:
http://members.aol.com/ebnoise/index.html

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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Tim Nelson <tcn62@ici.net>
Subject: Re: Looking to see Live Performers..
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Hi Joe,

Listmember David Kirkdorffer puts together looping shows semi-regularly
(every six months or so) in the Boston area. He calls it the Boston
Loopers' Collective. I've only been fortunate enough to make it to one of
them, though, at the Middle East in Cambridge... They way he did it was to
have each looper play a short solo set, then some duos, then finally a big
ensemble thing. I don't know when he's planning his next one.

Regarding the wide distribution, this might be the right time to suggest
that others on the list try the same thing: rather than trying to get
booked on a 6 band Tuesday night to get onstage and fit subtle,
introspective nuances between a Nirvana-wannabe band and a Pantera clone,
it might make sense to try to team up for an evening of music with
something in common. It wouldn't have to be presented as looping per se.
We're spread out over a wide area, but there are "pockets" of us that could
organize something that might appeal to someone booking a venue. (There are
quite a few loopers in the Bay Area, for example.) 

It would be interesting if these shows could be recorded and made available
to the list...

Tim

At 10:27 AM 2/2/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Sorry about the wide distribution, but I thought this would be the best way
>to find an answer.....
>
>Are there any performing loopers out there in the Boston area? I am looking
>to see some shows with looping content (preferably with acoustic
>instrumentation). 

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  2 23:39:34 2000
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Subject: RE: Looking to see Live Performers..
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 20:28:30 -0800
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Hey, this sounds very cool.  I'm all for this.  I think teamwork is where
it's at.  I'm in the San Francisco Bay area; anybody wants to arrange or
participate in something like this, write me off-list.  Thanks.

  | -----Original Message-----
  | From: Tim Nelson [mailto:tcn62@ici.net]
  | Sent: Wednesday 02 February 2000 6:38 PM
  | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
  | Subject: Re: Looking to see Live Performers..
  |
  |
  | Hi Joe,
  |
  | Listmember David Kirkdorffer puts together looping shows semi-regularly
  | (every six months or so) in the Boston area. He calls it the Boston
  | Loopers' Collective. I've only been fortunate enough to make it
  | to one of
  | them, though, at the Middle East in Cambridge... They way he
  | did it was to
  | have each looper play a short solo set, then some duos, then
  | finally a big
  | ensemble thing. I don't know when he's planning his next one.
  |
... something in common. It wouldn't have to be presented as looping per se.
  | We're spread out over a wide area, but there are "pockets" of
  | us that could
  | organize something that might appeal to someone booking a
  | venue. (There are
  | quite a few loopers in the Bay Area, for example.)
  |
  | It would be interesting if these shows could be recorded and
  | made available
  | to the list...
  |
  | Tim

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb  3 00:05:25 2000
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Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 23:47:22 -0500
From: :"-Peter :-Prisekin aka :-Dusty :-Chalk" <dusty@patriot.net>
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Hey, does anyone know of an Eventide Users Group?  I tried 
www.nextgen.com/eug, but it doesn't seem to be responding to me.
-- 
I remain,
:-Peter aka :-Dusty :-Chalk

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From: Jax1723@aol.com
Message-ID: <a5.1a8cf5f.25ca6518@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 23:59:04 EST
Subject: DL4 Versions
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I've been thinking about buying a line6 dl4 and I remember there being some 
discussion in reference to different versions and I'm wondering if anyone 
could tell me what those differences are.  Anything drastic?  I'll most 
likely wind up getting one through the mail so I might not be able to check 
it out before buying but I am curious.  Also... how can you tell which 
version you have?
Much thanks in advance
(wishing I could just buy an echoplex)
jack

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I'll check Fat City out. Let me know when you're in town
again and I'll lend some moral support.

Thanks,
- Larry T

>> Well, as I said, I've been out of it for a while. Naturally,
>>  I'll check out the local venues...(Charlotte, NC, btw)
>>
>i've played fat city in charlotte n.c. a few times ................... cool
>place .......... nice people ............. you should giv'em a call
.........
>brian
>electric bird noise
>
>sound etc. at:
>http://members.aol.com/ebnoise/index.html
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb  3 09:38:24 2000
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From: "Taaffe, Denis G" <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
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Hello,

	Hey that would be very cool. So there is another looper around.
Cool. Sure I have lots of recordings of live shows. In fact, the show
yesterday was taped. hmmm, hey perhaps we could trade some venues where they
accept looppers. do you do a solo electric gutiar show, as well? Lafayette,
I have been there, near Purdue Univeristy,yes?

Thanks
Denis

Denis Taaffe
denis_aliengtr@geocities.com
http://www.dtguitar.com



Bloomington, IN?  I'm up here in Lafayette, IN.  We should trade looping
gigs or
at least recordings of live shows.  Interested?

Dennis Leas
-----------------------------
dennis@mdbs.com

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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:27:00 -0500 
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Hello,

	yes, well, for me anyway, I prepared a four song demo on cd-r, a
letter saying I'd like to play live,what style, how long it takes me to
setup and that it should appeal to guitar fans of course). I also included a
8x10 photo and a press review of my CD. Then you have to check in with them
every week or so,till they get sick of you and book you to get rid of the
constant nagging haha. Well seriously though, out of 15 places, only 1
contacted me before I contacted them. No biggie just a phone call every week
to two weeks. Definitely get the booker's name and number.Also, be flexible
payment wise: I have been paid cash, gift certificates, food, not clothing
yet but I could see it happening. haha

	I just played a gig yesterday evening at a cafe in Bloomington,IN
and I played for 2 1/2 hours straight without a break, I played lots of
guitar solo's, loops,etc. I thought I played well, but the management said I
was too loud in the begining of course and that they had a constant stream
of complaints from people over 50 about the volume haha,.But it did go over
ok with the younger folks, but except for the booker, I don't think there
ware any loopers or rock guitar fans there haha. Overall a nice evening of
loop-a-mania even for a unguitarish crowd. 

	That's the one thing I have found with booking gigs, is that the
crowd may not be into your style and even though you play well, it may just
not be the right crowd. but if the booker is pleased and you give 100% it
usually pans out. Get out there and play, it's nice.

Thanks
Denis

Denis Taaffe
denis_aliengtr@geocities.com
http://www.dtguitar.com

 

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb  3 11:37:43 2000
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From: RA336@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 11:15:10 EST
Subject: looping in Ottawa
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I will be plying roots and ambient guitar with Canadian singer-songwriter 
Douglas September at 
The Great Canadian Theatre 
Ottawa Ontario
in the Acoustic Waves Concert Series
2 shows only
Feb 6 & 7
8 pm...
opening for the Wyrd Sisters

bon soir,
Robby Aceto

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From: David Kirkdorffer <DKirkdorffer@exapps.com>
To: "'Joseph Long'" <joelong@cisco.com>
Cc: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: The Loopers' Collective BOSTON / Providence - Looking to see Live
	 Performers..
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 11:44:36 -0500 
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Joseph & Other New England Area Loopers-

Glad to make your acquaintance.  Through the graces of Ross Hamlin and Open
Faucet, I've been pulling together looping shows in Boston for about two
years, mostly at the Middle East under the Loopers' Collective or Space
Lounge monikers.

The Loopers Collective IV is set for March 6 (8-11pm) downstairs at The
Middle East.  This one will feature The Echo Chamber Ensemble -- acoustic
instruments mixed and looped in real-time by uber-looper Dave Barnes. 

I'm looking to add three DJ's to the show, as a counter balance.  The goal
is to have three sets.

        E.C.E.
        DJ's
        E.C.E. & DJ's

In the past The Loopers Collective has featured Digeridoo, Violin, Guitar,
Electric Drums, Guitar Synth, Flute, Voice, Bass, Midi-Xylophone (sp?) and
Theremin.  I probably forgetting something/someone.

Live video mixing has always accompanied these shows by Dr. T.  IV will also
feature visuals from Karen Albano.

I'm planning a Looping Concession Stand at IV -- where New England loopers
(and possibly vendors of technology...) can sell stuff, too.  If you're
interested in selling your Looping oriented CD/Cassette, please contact me
in advance.  I'm not looking to make any money from this, but no-one will be
allowed to sell stuff unless they contact me first.  I need to keep some
control of this aspect of things.   One thing is for certain, these shows
are growing and the networking that goes on is half the fun.

The Loopers Collective V will be in Rhode Island at AS/220 on April 15.  I'm
interested in meeting some Rhode Island based Loopers to feature in this
show.  Interested? Please contact me.

If there is enough interest, The Loopers' Collective can perform anywhere in
New England.

David Kirkdorffer

UNDO

 

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb  3 14:40:18 2000
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From: "future perfect" <artmusic@gte.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Looking to see Live Performers..
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 14:31:09 -0500
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Ah yes! Happy the gig was mostly successful! One of the things that is
really important while playing odd loopy music is making sure the place you
are playing attracts an open, accepting crowd who are used to the
unexpected. This goes back to the idea of picking your gigs wisely. A crowd
used to hearing 'Brown Eyed Girl' might not be the best place to play. Sure,
it may be a great night, but it will be a very long one if people seem
annoyed that you are there, or worse, don't notice you at all. I have found
that an open-minded crowd (they are out there!) will dig anything thats done
really well. So go get them gigs!

Dave Eichenberger- guitars/loops/devices
http://home1.gte.net/artmusic/dave





> was too loud in the begining of course and that they had a constant stream
> of complaints from people over 50 about the volume haha,.But it
> did go over
> ok with the younger folks, but except for the booker, I don't think there
> ware any loopers or rock guitar fans there haha. Overall a nice evening of
> loop-a-mania even for a unguitarish crowd.

>

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From: ENAT21213@aol.com
Message-ID: <44.177b65f.25cb5506@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 17:02:46 EST
Subject: Re: The Loopers' Collective BOSTON / Providence - Looking to see
	Live Perform...
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In a message dated 2/3/00 12:03:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
DKirkdorffer@exapps.com writes:

> I'm planning a Looping Concession Stand at IV -- where New England loopers
>  (and possibly vendors of technology...) can sell stuff, too.  If you're
>  interested in selling your Looping oriented CD/Cassette, please contact me
>  
hey david,
if it's all right i'd like to send you a few copies of our "unleashing the 
inner robot" cd to put out on the looping concession stand
thoughts?
thanks!
brian
electric bird noise

http://members.aol.com/ebnoise/index.html

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb  3 19:04:15 2000
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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 15:05:44 -0800 (PST)
From: alias crossings <brigadoom@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: will calhoun w/D torn@knitting fact.
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Did anyone see the gig (Spattercell Feat. Will Calhoun
and David Torn) @knitting factory ?

I wonder if someone would be able to help me in
finding out what kind of samplers ("loopers"),
controllers, sequencers were apart of W Calhoun's
setup.

And David Torns ambient noise producing devices..
  are any analag electronic stuff part of David's rig.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb  3 20:48:37 2000
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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:40:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Unit Circle Media <unitcirc@unitcircle.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Looking to see Live Performers.. (promo)
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Well I'll be doing a few shows this month if anybody's around Seattle.
I'll even be lecturing about composition (including looping) to the
Washington Composer's Forum next week.  More details are on my pageS:

http://www.intonarumori.com/performances.html


Kevin Goldsmith				kevin@unitcircle.com
Unit Circle Media			http://www.unitcircle.com/


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb  4 00:13:59 2000
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Subject: Re: Looking to see Live Performers.. (promo)
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Did I mention that I'll be appearing nowhere in public at all, in any musical 
capacity,
at any time in the near or distant future? I thought I might have,but wanted 
to make
sure the word got out.
                          Bryan Helm

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb  4 01:07:19 2000
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Word of mouth seems to be working fine. ;)


>Did I mention that I'll be appearing nowhere in public at all, in any
musical
>capacity,
>at any time in the near or distant future? I thought I might have,but
wanted
>to make
>sure the word got out.
>                          Bryan Helm
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb  4 06:27:11 2000
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Message-ID: <013401bf6f02$05dab420$8e02a8c0@voulaz>
From: "Stefano Voulaz" <voulaz@korg.it>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
References: <3896BB75.1EE2@club-internet.fr> <3.0.5.32.20000201182810.007a8950@pop.ici.net> <00b301bf6db7$f593a540$7d2726d4@h2v6p1>
Subject: R: R: Sushi ...what about italian food?
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:21:45 +0100
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Ciao Luca,
mi chiamo Stefano e seguo da tempo la lista dei Loopers, piy che altro come
osservatore. Ho pensato ti facesse piacere sapere che non sei l'unico looper
italiano! Sono riuscito anch'io a mettere le mani su un EDP (usato) e in
effetti e' una macchina molto interessante. Sono un progettista HW/SW e sto
lavorando (a titolo personale e nel poco tempo libero che ho) a un'unita'
simile, ma stereofonica, 48KHz e con un multieffetto integrato. Mi e' parso
di capire che hai avuto qualche problema con il tuo EDP: se riesci a
ricuperarlo (!), potrei vedere di farci qualcosa (il mio si guasto' tempo fa
e dovetti sostituire la CPU). Parlando di cose meno tecniche, mi piacerebbe
sapere se riesci a suonare in giro e che tipo di musica fai. Per quanto mi
riguarda, fino ad oggi sono rimasto al coperto, ma a fine aprile suonero' in
un teatro della zona accompagnato da una ballerina. Si tratta di una serie
di improvvisazioni sonore danzate, ritmiche e non, di sola chitarra (forse
qualche percussione triggerata con sensori sul corpo). Niente di
assolutamente nuovo, ma comunque un bell'esperimento. Fatti vivo, se te ne
va: io sto ad Ancona, ma giro parecchio, quindi non e' detto che non ci si
riesca a vedere!

Ariciao!
Stefano Voulaz

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb  4 07:58:19 2000
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OOOPS!   :-O
Sorry for the wrong post... BTW, ciao to everybody!
Stefano

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From: Echophazer@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 08:44:17 EST
Subject: akai headrush
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i checked out the past postings on this box and am very interested in buying 
one. i would like to know if anyone has found any problems with this unit 
before i commit the cash to it.

Thank Yee All,
Peter

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb  4 09:23:47 2000
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From: "Taaffe, Denis G" <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Looking to see Live Performers.. (promo)
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 09:02:57 -0500 
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Now that is some cool news.I'll defnitely check this out.

DT



Did I mention that I'll be appearing nowhere in public at all, in any
musical 
capacity,
at any time in the near or distant future? 

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb  4 10:27:57 2000
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From: "Taaffe, Denis G" <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: new 5 song live EP
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 10:20:36 -0500 
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Hello,

	Hey I have a newly released 5 song from the "live solo electric
guitar shows" I have been doing which uses lots of guitar loops.It's a live
ep for sale at mp3.com for $5.99.It's  a D.A.M CD, basically when you buy
it, mp3.com will send you the 5 songs as mp3's, but they also send via snail
mail the CD (or is it a CD-r?, not sure). Well, anyway one of the songs is
available for free download/preview but the rest only come with the CD. I
thought this was kind of neat. Anyone else have D.A.M CD's available?  If
not, maybe it is worthwhile to create one,no?
 
Denis

Denis Taaffe
denis_aliengtr@geocities.com
http://www.dtguitar.com


----

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Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 10:11:34 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Tim Nelson <tcn62@ici.net>
Subject: Re: akai headrush
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I like mine a lot, but it does have its limitations. Seems an awful lot of
people are trading in their Headrushes for DL4's.

My Headrush has been very dependable, and any problems I've had with it
aren't really its fault. For example, it tends to break up pretty easily on
bassy content, but I've found that's more a gain-staging thing that you'll
find with ANY looper. Also, some users have complained that it's not a true
bypass, but I haven't found that to be a huge problem.

The Headrush is easy to use, and it's very rugged. The sample rate (and
therefore the sound quality) is excellent. If you're looking for lots of
features or more loop time (the 23.8 seconds claimed for the Headrush is
cut in half if you intend to do any layering), you might be better spending
a little more for something more versatile, but the 'rush certainly does
what it's advertised to do, and even if you do eventually upgrade to a more
full-featured looper, you'd still probably find the Headrush useful
somewhere in your setup. People have tried mine, then bought one of their
own, so if you can find someone who's got one, you might want to play with
it for a while, as they can be kind of hard to find in stores. (Everyone I
know who has one got it through mail-order...)

Tim

At 08:44 AM 2/4/00 EST, you wrote:
>i checked out the past postings on this box and am very interested in buying 
>one. i would like to know if anyone has found any problems with this unit 
>before i commit the cash to it.

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb  4 10:47:01 2000
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Message-ID: <7BAC931E644ED211A90C00805F65CB640282DDE6@georgia.exchange.indiana.edu>
From: "Taaffe, Denis G" <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
To: "Taaffe, Denis G" <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>,
        "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: new 5 song live EP
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 10:24:00 -0500 
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oops  I forgot, the url for my live ep is http://www.mp3.com/denis_taaffe .

-----Original Message-----
From: Taaffe, Denis G 
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 10:21 AM
To: 'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'
Subject: new 5 song live EP


Hello,

	Hey I have a newly released 5 song from the "live solo electric
guitar shows" I have been doing which uses lots of guitar loops.It's a live
ep for sale at mp3.com for $5.99.It's  a D.A.M CD, basically when you buy
it, mp3.com will send you the 5 songs as mp3's, but they also send via snail
mail the CD (or is it a CD-r?, not sure). Well, anyway one of the songs is
available for free download/preview but the rest only come with the CD. I
thought this was kind of neat. Anyone else have D.A.M CD's available?  If
not, maybe it is worthwhile to create one,no?
 
Denis

Denis Taaffe
denis_aliengtr@geocities.com
http://www.dtguitar.com


----

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb  4 11:02:31 2000
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From: "Javier Miranda V." <gnominus@earthling.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: R: Sushi ...what about italian food?
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 07:55:06 -0800
Message-ID: <LOBBJCEICBFKLACEKDADOEJLCDAA.gnominus@earthling.net>
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I can't understand a word he said, but I like it.

  | -----Original Message-----
  | From: Stefano Voulaz [mailto:voulaz@korg.it]
  | Sent: Friday 04 February 2000 3:22 AM
  | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
  | Subject: R: R: Sushi ...what about italian food?
  | 
  | 
  | Ciao Luca,
  | mi chiamo Stefano e seguo da tempo la lista dei Loopers, piy 
  | che altro come
  | osservatore. Ho pensato ti facesse piacere sapere che non sei ...

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb  4 11:50:20 2000
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Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 10:32:58 -0600
Subject: PMC-10, ebay
From: Travis Hartnett <hartne.t@apple.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
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The legendary controller:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250096027


TH

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb  4 12:04:55 2000
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From: NoelG26@aol.com
Message-ID: <d9.c8cd7e.25cc5e2c@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 11:54:04 EST
Subject: Re: akai headrush
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
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i own one, and so far i am extremely happy with it. the only thing i noticed is  that when you loop using destortion on your amp, and play the lead, it cuts out the rythum part ( or the loop), but, the good thing is, that if you use a destortion pedal, it works fine!
reese

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb  4 12:22:29 2000
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Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 12:13:36 -0500
From: Darcy Clark <darcyc@engin.umich.edu>
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Organization: MSE, Umich
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using babelfish.altavista.com translate gives :

Hello Luca, I call Stefano and I for a long time follow the list of the
Loopers, piy that other like observer. I have thought made it appeal to
you to know that not six..

hmmm...babelfish obviously needs work ;)

Darcy

"Javier Miranda V." wrote:
> 
> I can't understand a word he said, but I like it.
> 
>   | -----Original Message-----
>   | From: Stefano Voulaz [mailto:voulaz@korg.it]
>   | Sent: Friday 04 February 2000 3:22 AM
>   | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>   | Subject: R: R: Sushi ...what about italian food?
>   |
>   |
>   | Ciao Luca,
>   | mi chiamo Stefano e seguo da tempo la lista dei Loopers, piy
>   | che altro come
>   | osservatore. Ho pensato ti facesse piacere sapere che non sei ...

-- 
---------------------------------------------------
Ph: (734) 764 3377 
Email: darcyc@engin.umich.edu
URL: http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~darcyc/
---------------------------------------------------
'If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate'
..... Steven Wright

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb  4 12:21:57 2000
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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:12:19 -0500 (EST)
From: lar <larr@mail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Korg AX1G User Manual in text-only Format
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I own and enjoy a Korg AX1G multi-effects unit, but have come across a number of users who have lost or don't have the factory printed User Manual.

For those who would like an (unofficial/unauthorized) text version of the manual, for a limited time you can go to the link below and save a copy for yourself. I have found it quite useful, especially considering that, for some reason, Korg hasn't posted the manual to the web.  Except for the lack of illustrations, this text-only version is apparently pretty faithful to the factory printed manual.

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Canyon/9347/AX1Gmanual.html
______________________________________________
FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
Sign up at http://www.mail.com?sr=mc.mk.mcm.tag001

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb  4 14:42:26 2000
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Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 14:29:11 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Tim Nelson <tcn62@ici.net>
Subject: Stuck in the Middle Problem
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Help! I'm perplexed. Perhaps this has happened to you:

My looping rack includes a poly synth, a mono synth, a DBX 266 compressor,
an Alesis SR-16, a MiniDisc deck, a graphic EQ (not hooked up right now due
to a patch cord shortage), a SansAmp, a Korg SDD-1000 for short loops, an
ART ProVerb and a Headrush, all connected to a Spirit Folio board. (Yes,
they're all in one rack; it's huge, but it's on wheels and everything stays
plugged in so I can set up in two minutes. It's called the
missioncontrolherniamaker...) Guitar, bass and theremin go into the mixer
through a separate on-the-floor pedalboard which also splits off to a
separate guitar amp, and sometimes I plug a mic into the board to loop
flutes, didgeridu and the odd acoustic thingy when I'm in a low-noise
setting (not all that often...).

(Clowns to the left of me...)

Here's the problem: until today, I amplified the stuff in the rack by
sending two lines out from the board to two separate bass amps, each with
cabs. A couple of hours ago, I put a stereo power amp (a one-space 90w/ch
Electar EPA-200) into the rack, the idea being that I'd get a cleaner
full-range sound and would no longer have to carry two bass heads around.
It sounds fine, BUT only if I keep all my pans exactly centered and keep my
two output faders at exactly the same level, otherwise I get horrible
distortion. (I actually like ugly, mangled distortion sometimes when used
sparingly, but this is overboard and useless...) I'm also finding that I
can't use either of the stereo channels (the MiniDisc deck and the drum
machine) for the same reason, and that's not good.

(Jokers to the right...)

Obviously this defeats the whole purpose of running in stereo. Ordinarily,
I like to be able to position my two loopers at different places in the
stereo field, and also tend to pan powerful bassy sounds away from more
subtle stuff that would otherwise get swamped.

(Here I am...)

I've already double-checked the wiring to ensure that the polarity is all
copacetic and everything, the amp's mono/bridge switch is in the correct
position, the board's not overloading, the input levels are fine; I can't
find a problem...

(Stuck in the middle in MONO...)

What shoulds me do? Can anyone help me segue that Stealer's Wheel tune into
the Cars' "Moving In Stereo"? (Not that that's such a great tune or
anything, but you get the point...)

Tim

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb  4 17:13:44 2000
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Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 14:02:28 -0800
From: "Mike Biffle" <mbiffle@svg.com>
To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Loop Fest 2 - - The Spawning! Sunday 2-13, 8:30pm...
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Looping gig alert... 

Gary Hull, Bill Walker, Miko B. and Rick Walker will be performing solo sets (in that order) Sunday 2-13, at the Bulkhead Gallery, 130 Bulkhead St. Santa Cruz, CA. (near the town clock and down the street from Skateworks). Admission is a sliding 3-5 bucks and the event starts at 8:30pm

Best Regards,
Miko Biffle, mbiffle@svg.com
"Running scared from all the usual distractions..."

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb  4 18:31:59 2000
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From: Nemoguitt@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:23:59 EST
Subject: Re: Loop Fest 2 - - The Spawning! Sunday 2-13, 8:30pm...
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In a message dated 2/4/00 8:13:15 PM Mid-Atlantic Standard Time, 
mbiffle@svg.com writes:

<<  Admission is a sliding 3-5 bucks >>

mnm.......i would like one 3 buck and one 4 buck seat........can you fix me 
up?........mnm

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb  4 19:09:04 2000
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Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 15:59:40 -0800
From: "Mike Biffle" <mbiffle@svg.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Nemoguitt@aol.com
Subject: Re: Loop Fest 2 - - The Spawning! Sunday 2-13, 8:30pm...
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Shipping is gonna cost ya on those mnm! Hard to chase down those
sliding bucks too!

MikoNOTMichael

>>> <Nemoguitt@aol.com> 02/04 3:30 PM >>>
In a message dated 2/4/00 8:13:15 PM Mid-Atlantic Standard Time, 
mbiffle@svg.com writes:

<<  Admission is a sliding 3-5 bucks >>

mnm.......i would like one 3 buck and one 4 buck seat........can you
fix me 
up?........mnm

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb  4 19:58:49 2000
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Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 16:49:26 -0800
From: "Mike Biffle" <mbiffle@svg.com>
To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com
Subject: LOOPFEST TWO gig in Santa Cruz, CA. USA, Earth...
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Ok gang... here's the official fancy-pants press release for the loop gig! Now I'm getting excited! 8-) 
Miko
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sunday, February 13th at 8 p.m., Rick Walker presents the Festival of Emerging Santa Cruz Electronica, REV 5.0: LOOPFEST TWO at the BULKHEAD GALLERY (also slated for demolition later next month following the fate of WHAT IS ART). 

After the success of the first digital looping festival, four more artists have been slated to perform including a full set from Loop.One (Rick Walkers' solo looping project). 

Opening the show is GARY HULL, followed by an atmospheric solo guitar looping performance by BILL WALKER. MIKO B will then follow with a set of sonic mayhem and wonder followed by RICK WALKER's LOOP.ONE (a set composed of found percussion, odd instruments, perplexing rhythms and audience participation). 

All proceeds will go to benefit the CULTURAL WORKERS UNION and the BULKHEAD GALLERY. The Bulkhead Gallery is just north of the Town Clock off of Pacific Avenue. A sliding scale donation of $5-$10 is suggested. 

please call Rick Walker at 425-8659 for more information


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb  4 22:41:23 2000
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Subject: Re: akai headrush
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 12:38:04 -0800
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The only problem I have is a slight hiss.  I use two of them, 1 to tap in
a delay, and the other one is after it, as a looping device.
To cut some of the hiss I have the headrushes after my
preamp. Which for me is a Sansamp bass preamp,
then I go straight into the poweramp. This cut the hiss
buy half.       Cool.





----- Original Message -----
From: <Echophazer@aol.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 5:44 AM
Subject: akai headrush


> i checked out the past postings on this box and am very interested in
buying
> one. i would like to know if anyone has found any problems with this unit
> before i commit the cash to it.
>
> Thank Yee All,
> Peter
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sat Feb  5 01:41:32 2000
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Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 21:22:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Aaron Schindler <aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com>
Subject: alto music
To: looper list <loopers-delight@annihilist.com>
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Is it just me or does the website for altomusic (home
of the $200 dl4) no longer load? If so, does anyone
know the phone number? 
I finally have the $$ but now can't seem to be able to
access the site to order one. not good.

Aaron
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sat Feb  5 07:56:04 2000
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Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 13:26:27 -0800
From: Claude Voit <c.voit@vtx.ch>
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Tim Nelson wrote:

> 
> I've already double-checked the wiring to ensure that the polarity is all
> copacetic and everything, the amp's mono/bridge switch is in the correct
> position, the board's not overloading, the input levels are fine; I can't
> find a problem...
> 

did you try it with another line source like the MD direct in the amp 
to test the amp alone ??
>the amp's mono/bridge switch is in the correct position
are u shure ??

sorry if doesnt help because 
I'm no technician just another guy with a big system that sends you some
compassion 
<G>

Claude

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Alto's number is 914 692 6922

Aaron Schindler wrote:

> Is it just me or does the website for altomusic (home
> of the $200 dl4) no longer load? If so, does anyone
> know the phone number?
> I finally have the $$ but now can't seem to be able to
> access the site to order one. not good.
>
> Aaron
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://im.yahoo.com



From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sat Feb  5 09:48:33 2000
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From: Hawkeye255@aol.com
Message-ID: <9a.b06ed1.25cd8dd5@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 09:29:41 EST
Subject: Re: akai headrush
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First I bought one.  Two months later, I bought another one.  One feeds into 
the other.  When I have a nice loop in #1 (of many layers), I record it to 
#2.  While #2 is playing, I start again with #1.  Great fun!  They're simple 
to use.  No complaints.  

    hawkeye

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sat Feb  5 10:43:59 2000
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Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 07:38:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Aaron Schindler <aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com>
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--- "roguemus@ix.netcom.com" <roguemus@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
> Alto's number is 914 692 6922

Thank you. I just ordered my dl4; and now I must go
sit by my mailbox and wait for the next 3 days.

Aaron
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sat Feb  5 10:33:41 2000
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Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 10:30:22 -0500
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From: Tim Nelson <tcn62@ici.net>
Subject: Re: Stuck in the Middle Problem
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At 01:26 PM 2/5/00 -0800, Claude Voit wrote:

>Tim Nelson wrote:
>> I've already double-checked the wiring to ensure that the polarity is all
>> copacetic and everything, the amp's mono/bridge switch is in the correct
>> position, the board's not overloading, the input levels are fine; I can't
>> find a problem...
>
>did you try it with another line source like the MD direct in the amp 
>to test the amp alone ??

Good idea. I just tried it; the problem's still there, so I think I can
rule out a mixer problem suddenly having developed. It's either the amp or
the way I'm using it.

>>the amp's mono/bridge switch is in the correct position
>are u shure ??

I had visually checked the switch when I opened the box, but hadn't
physically set it, so I just pulled the amp out of the rack to be sure. It
was correct. (The switch is recessed into the bottom of the unit and is
inaccessible when installed in a rack.)
>
>sorry if doesnt help because 
>I'm no technician just another guy with a big system that sends you some
>compassion

Merci, Claude!

What I'm suspecting now( yet since I'm no engineer it's only a guess) is
that the problem may in some way be related to phase, since it only happens
when the signal to the two sides is different (i.e. when there's a true
stereo source, when the pan control on a particular mono channel isn't
centered, or when the output faders are set to different levels. At
extremely low volumes, the problem disappears. I know the amp has
protection circuitry which will not allow it to operate if the load drops
below 4 ohms, and I'm wondering if that might be happening, since the
"protect" LED flickers whenever the distortion is present. I'm not exactly
sure what the load is; I'm using it to power a pair of SoundTech monitors
which each have 1-12" and a horn (the specs panel was never filled out and
I got them at least secondhand) but I can't imagine them being lower than 4
ohms. (Trying to smallerize, and not have to carry the big cabinets
around!) I suppose I should start looking for my meter...

Does anyone know if this type of problem would occur if the impedance of
the monitors were not the same? I'm assuming they are identical, since
they're the same model, but I'm not certain. They're pretty beat up, too,
so I'm not ruling out anything!

I have to pack the rig up in an hour or so to take out to play this
afternoon. I can get by without using the SR-16, and I suppose I can use an
adaptor to send the MiniDisc in mono to an unused non-stereo channel, but
there go my cool side-to-side sampled atmospheric loops! I guess I'll be
bringing the bass heads and cabs as a backup...

Thanks,

Tim

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sat Feb  5 11:04:20 2000
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Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 11:00:42 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Tim Nelson <tcn62@ici.net>
Subject: strange instruments/"electric didgeridu"
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Hey, if any of you who are into looping unusual instruments want to read
about something downright weird, go to eBay and type in "electric
didgeridu" sometime in the next day and a half...

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sat Feb  5 12:29:18 2000
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Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 09:23:13 -0800 (PST)
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Subject: Re: strange instruments/"electric didgeridu"
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--- Tim Nelson <tcn62@ici.net> wrote:
> Hey, if any of you who are into looping unusual
> instruments want to read
> about something downright weird, go to eBay and type
> in "electric
> didgeridu" sometime in the next day and a half...
> 
> 
If you look up "Lark in the Morning" they sell
"unusual musical instruments" and have electric
bagpipes. (for when you get bored with the electric
didgeridu).
OK-
 
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com

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From: SoundFNR@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 12:53:46 EST
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In a message dated 04/02/00 19:42:50 GMT Standard Time, tcn62@ici.net writes:

> amp's mono/bridge switch is in the correct
>  position, 
How about the speaker connections, if the -VE outputs aren't both grounded
then I figure you could get the effect you describe by swapping over the two 
-VE speaker wires. Then the +VE of one spkr would be connected to the 
-VE of the wrong channel( &v.v.).
just an idea mind , have you asked 'Electar'? , bet they'd know straight away.

Oh , and commiserations with the 'hernia'.

Andy "Rack-too-Large-also" Butler

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sat Feb  5 17:18:39 2000
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From: Nemoguitt@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 16:57:00 EST
Subject: VP-9000 VariPhrase Processor
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this looks like it might be an interesting box for all you midi types out 
there.......made by roland......reviewed on www.harmony-central.com...........
michael

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sun Feb  6 00:42:38 2000
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Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 21:18:59 -0800
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>this looks like it might be an interesting box for all you midi types out
>there.......made by roland......reviewed on www.harmony-central.com...........
>michael

It's on display at NAMM. pretty interesting little box. Just $3200!

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | 


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Just uploaded a new mp3 to the soundfile page on my site 
<<http://hometown.aol.com/pmimlitsch/>>.  In keeping with my latest goal of 
developing a scaled down loop set up, somewhat replicating my rack set up, 
but in pedal form, the signal chain is RP20(slight tonal coloring) - 
DL4(tweaked backwards delay patch) - Digitech PDS8000(8 sec. long delays w/ 
max feedback).  Check it out. - Paul
PS - Did some "on-the-fly" tweaking of the wet/ dry mix on the DL4.

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sun Feb  6 15:01:40 2000
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hi folks , 
thought i might comment on this thread...one of the 2 bands i am fortunate
enough to contribute to is Psuedo Buddha (Bobdog, and James Sidlo from LD)
well any way we have a didg player (eucalyptus) who does mucho looping
his looper of choice is an old Ibanez DM-1100...he has the ability to adjust
parameters, unavailable on my jamman, and plex. it is a unique modern
approach to a very ancient instrument.

if ya have'nt checked out our website,, you can hear this looped didg,,and
other strange instruments

http://www.pseudobuddha.com

james






At 11:00 AM 2/5/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Hey, if any of you who are into looping unusual instruments want to read
>about something downright weird, go to eBay and type in "electric
>didgeridu" sometime in the next day and a half...
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sun Feb  6 16:18:16 2000
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hey Paul, I'm getting them all but which is the new one?

jd

PMimlitsch@aol.com wrote:

> Just uploaded a new mp3 to the soundfile page on my site
> <<http://hometown.aol.com/pmimlitsch/>>.  In keeping with my latest goal of
> developing a scaled down loop set up, somewhat replicating my rack set up,
> but in pedal form, the signal chain is RP20(slight tonal coloring) -
> DL4(tweaked backwards delay patch) - Digitech PDS8000(8 sec. long delays w/
> max feedback).  Check it out. - Paul
> PS - Did some "on-the-fly" tweaking of the wet/ dry mix on the DL4.

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb  7 00:07:24 2000
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From: "Brent" <broman@niu.edu>
To: "Loopers Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: dl4
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anyone know of a good site to get a line6 dl4 for cheap? and i do mean the
newer dl4.

-brent
Broman@niu.edu


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb  7 11:33:48 2000
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Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 08:09:11 -0800
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From: Rich <rich@nuvision.com>
Subject: Re: VP-9000 VariPhrase Processor
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I agree, this box was very cool, and although it seems to be targeted at
producers and engineers (so they can put a voice to someone with a butt
like Jennifer Lopez and voila!) and remixers (what a surprise, another toy
for remixers)... this box could be an awesome creative tool.

kim, did you notice if there were any looping features built into the box?
I couldn't tell.  All of the demonstrators were all showing the exact same
features, and using the same samples.  Cue card anyone?

good to see the loopers.  sorry i didn't hang around long, i had to meet
someone.

I saw four Echoplexes in the Gibson rep/meeting room.  Not hooked up,
though.  I asked a Trace Elliot rep if he knew anything about release date
and street price.  He was very nice, but didn't tell me anything all of you
haven't already heard for the last two years.  I did notice that the serial
numbers on the back were hand written and had numbers like 01-0001,
01-0002, etc... so those must have been the prototypes we've been hearing
about.

rich

 At 09:18 PM 2/5/00 -0800, you wrote:
>>this looks like it might be an interesting box for all you midi types out
>>there.......made by roland......reviewed on
www.harmony-central.com...........
>>michael
>
>It's on display at NAMM. pretty interesting little box. Just $3200!
>
>kim
>
>______________________________________________________________________
>Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
>kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
>http://www.annihilist.com/  | 
>
>
>

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Subject: SnuffleuppaPlex sighted again?
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Looks like we'll receive no interruption in the responsive customer service
that characterizes the Echoplex market.

TH

> I saw four Echoplexes in the Gibson rep/meeting room.  Not hooked up,
> though.  I asked a Trace Elliot rep if he knew anything about release date
> and street price.  He was very nice, but didn't tell me anything all of you
> haven't already heard for the last two years.  I did notice that the serial
> numbers on the back were hand written and had numbers like 01-0001,
> 01-0002, etc... so those must have been the prototypes we've been hearing
> about.

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb  7 13:40:29 2000
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Rich wrote:

> I agree, this box was very cool, and although it seems to be targeted at
> producers and engineers (so they can put a voice to someone with a butt
> like Jennifer Lopez and voila!) and remixers (what a surprise, another toy
> for remixers)... this box could be an awesome creative tool.
>
> kim, did you notice if there were any looping features built into the box?
> I couldn't tell.  All of the demonstrators were all showing the exact same
> features, and using the same samples.  Cue card anyone?

Can someone tell me what the VP-9000 is supposed to do? Now that
I see that word "looper" next to it I'm getting curious. ;-)

Robert

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From: Rich <rich@nuvision.com>
Subject: Re: VP-9000 VariPhrase Processor
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>From what i saw, it's essentially a sampler, with real time controls over
pitch, timestretch, and other goodies.  Some examples they were showing at
the show included:

Taking a drum loop, you can adjust the quantizing in real time, altering
the loop's "groove", as they call it.  (Imagine using this on textural,
non-rythmic samples/loops?)

On a vocal phrase, your singer misses the last word of the phrase and goes
flat.  Well, with the VP-9000, you can just adjust the pitch of the last
word up and all is well.

The VP can assemble multiple samples in different tempos and pitches into a
coherent piece, in real time.

Also, intelligent harmonies can be done.

On board effects.


Like I said, the demonstrators were just doing their thing by rote, so the
setup involved with the VP to do what they were demo'ing might be more
complicated than they indicated...but nonetheless, a very interesting tool.
 If there is some looping function, where once you capture the sample, it
would start playing, and then you could do the VP magic in real time.  Yowza!

rich

At 07:20 PM 2/7/00 +0100, you wrote:
>Rich wrote:
>
>> I agree, this box was very cool, and although it seems to be targeted at
>> producers and engineers (so they can put a voice to someone with a butt
>> like Jennifer Lopez and voila!) and remixers (what a surprise, another toy
>> for remixers)... this box could be an awesome creative tool.
>>
>> kim, did you notice if there were any looping features built into the box?
>> I couldn't tell.  All of the demonstrators were all showing the exact same
>> features, and using the same samples.  Cue card anyone?
>
>Can someone tell me what the VP-9000 is supposed to do? Now that
>I see that word "looper" next to it I'm getting curious. ;-)
>
>Robert
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb  7 17:44:59 2000
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From: L.Angulo@t-online.de (Luis Angulo)
To: "Loopers delight" <loopers-delight@annihilist.com>
Subject:  Seeking synthesizer advice
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Hello there,
I am considering buying a synthesizer but there is so many out there that i
decided to first throw this question to this website for advice before
buying. I am primarily a guitarrist and very ignorant of synths. What i need
is a good reliable tool to compose and perform live with good sequencing and
sampling capabilities, lo-fi vinyl effects,cool trip hop drum
samples,beautiful symphonic strings etc. Is there one out there with all of
this in one box? Is there a synth shut out magazine link review that will
maybe answer my question?
Thanks for your help!
L.A.

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb  7 18:42:46 2000
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Rich wrote:

> >From what i saw, it's essentially a sampler, with real time controls over
> pitch, timestretch, and other goodies.  Some examples they were showing at
> the show included:
>
> Taking a drum loop, you can adjust the quantizing in real time, altering
> the loop's "groove", as they call it.  (Imagine using this on textural,
> non-rythmic samples/loops?)

Oh yeah! :-)

>
>
> On a vocal phrase, your singer misses the last word of the phrase and goes
> flat.  Well, with the VP-9000, you can just adjust the pitch of the last
> word up and all is well.
>
> The VP can assemble multiple samples in different tempos and pitches into a
> coherent piece, in real time.
>
> Also, intelligent harmonies can be done.
>
> On board effects.
>
> Like I said, the demonstrators were just doing their thing by rote, so the
> setup involved with the VP to do what they were demo'ing might be more
> complicated than they indicated...but nonetheless, a very interesting tool.
>  If there is some looping function, where once you capture the sample, it
> would start playing, and then you could do the VP magic in real time.  Yowza!

Wow. That would be awsome indeed.

Thanks for the info.
Robert

>
>
> rich
>
> At 07:20 PM 2/7/00 +0100, you wrote:
> >Rich wrote:
> >
> >> I agree, this box was very cool, and although it seems to be targeted at
> >> producers and engineers (so they can put a voice to someone with a butt
> >> like Jennifer Lopez and voila!) and remixers (what a surprise, another toy
> >> for remixers)... this box could be an awesome creative tool.
> >>
> >> kim, did you notice if there were any looping features built into the box?
> >> I couldn't tell.  All of the demonstrators were all showing the exact same
> >> features, and using the same samples.  Cue card anyone?
> >
> >Can someone tell me what the VP-9000 is supposed to do? Now that
> >I see that word "looper" next to it I'm getting curious. ;-)
> >
> >Robert
> >
> >

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb  7 18:49:31 2000
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On 2/7/00 LA wrote:

>Hello there,
>I am considering buying a synthesizer but there is so many out there that i
>decided to first throw this question to this website for advice before
>buying. I am primarily a guitarrist and very ignorant of synths. What i need
>is a good reliable tool to compose and perform live with good sequencing and
>sampling capabilities, lo-fi vinyl effects,cool trip hop drum
>samples,beautiful symphonic strings etc. Is there one out there with all of
>this in one box?

Probably not...but then I too am a guitarist who uses synths and have
learned about them as I've gone along.

Is there a synth shut out magazine link review that will
>maybe answer my question?
>Thanks for your help!
>L.A.

The problem with reading about synths is that you NEED to ehar what you are
buying. Do yourself a favor and start cruising the music stores and hang
listen. Many but not all keyboard synths also coem in rack mount versions.
But even if you do not have keyboard chops you can stil hear what's up. And
to gget all that you are saying you ned be prepared to spend some dollars.


Harmony Central and Music Machines ahve good web sites to check out. there
are also liste servs and newsgroups dealing with synths. I used to be
Analouge Heaven but he volume was too much to keep up with and genrally
info I did not need.

SO go listen and determine what you want. Then haunt the used gear
websites, newspaper ads, pawn shops. Be patient. Sooner or later everything
shows up for sale. I understand that someone is auctioning off Eno's DX-7
and some other synth at ebay this week.

Patrick
                     Fingerpaint's New Release:

                            IN THE LOOP

      ... an intelligent, stimulating mixture of mimimaist spacebeats and
           obscure samples layered upon a hypnotic illbient backdrop.

                       DIGITAL ARTIFACT # 12

                      http://www.fingerpaint.net

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb  7 20:26:10 2000
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Most all-in-one swiss-army boxes really suck unless you
get something at the very high-end. So your choice depends
in part on your budget. And remember: NAMM just finished,
which means there are now even more choices, and conversely,
more opportunities to buy last years model at blow-out
prices.

Check out the usual suspects for reviews, like:
* Electronic Musician
* Sound on Sound
* Keyboard magazine
* Musician's Friend
* Rogue Music

You may also want to check the occasional deal on
eBay.

- Larry T



>Hello there,
>I am considering buying a synthesizer but there is so many out there that i
>decided to first throw this question to this website for advice before
>buying. I am primarily a guitarrist and very ignorant of synths. What i
need
>is a good reliable tool to compose and perform live with good sequencing
and
>sampling capabilities, lo-fi vinyl effects,cool trip hop drum
>samples,beautiful symphonic strings etc. Is there one out there with all of
>this in one box? Is there a synth shut out magazine link review that will
>maybe answer my question?
>Thanks for your help!
>L.A.
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb  7 23:57:36 2000
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From: Hawkeye255@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 23:02:09 EST
Subject: Re: Seeking synthesizer advice
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
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If you want a great synth and don't want to spend enough to buy a herd of PRS 
guitars, look at some older (slightly) "workstations", like Roland JV-1000, 
or Korg 01W's and the "T-serise" (T1, T2, T3).  I've owned Trinity's and have 
lusted after the new Triton, but actually my venerable Korg T3 is all I need 
to create serious music and/or chaos, whichever.  And, as a bonus, it has a 
very tractable, realtime looping phrase feature that I use daily.  In fact, 
many times that's exactly where I start...then when things are getting pretty 
well stirred up there for background 'ambience', I grab a guitar or mandolin 
or bass or my Prophecy or a mic and start looping and sampling over that.  
(Sigh) So many fun things to try, so little time.  ;-)

good hunting,
        hawkeye

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  8 04:00:11 2000
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Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 00:24:29 -0800
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: VP-9000 VariPhrase Processor
In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.20000207080911.00882510@pop3.argotech.net>
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At 8:09 AM -0800 2/7/00, Rich wrote:
>I agree, this box was very cool, and although it seems to be targeted at
>producers and engineers (so they can put a voice to someone with a butt
>like Jennifer Lopez and voila!) and remixers (what a surprise, another toy
>for remixers)... this box could be an awesome creative tool.
>
>kim, did you notice if there were any looping features built into the box?
>I couldn't tell.  All of the demonstrators were all showing the exact same
>features, and using the same samples.  Cue card anyone?

I didn't bother to ask. I guess because every time I've ever asked that
question of roland the answer was "no". :-)  My guess is, if what you want
is the capability to record a sample and have it immediately loop, probably
it doesn't. I'm sure it has a sampler type loop mode, where the sample
continues to loop as long as it is held. It does have some nice features, a
sort of realtime "recycle-in-a-box" along with nice time stretch and pitch
change capabilities. It was hard to tell how good those functions really
were in the demo setting, because the tended to use "favorable" samples
where you wouldn't be able to tell artifacts very easily.

One point about the VP-9000 is that Roland has made an attempt here to move
away from the traditional concept of a sampler. Traditional samplers have
really become sample-library-playback-machines. Hardly anybody uses them to
actually sample anything. As such they have developed to be very powerful
for playback of sample libraries and very weak for recording and creating
the samples in the first place. What one of the demo guys noted is that
Roland intentionally went the other way with this box - they wanted it to
be a powerful tool for working with samples you generate on the box.
(basically the same philosophy as people designing loopers have taken.) It
seems pretty nice for that purpose, with some interesting functions, but
whether it's worth $3200 is up to you.:-)

One of the demo guys showed how you could abuse the features to get some
strange sounds out of it, some of you would probably like it for that.
Personally, I thought their new hand drum controller was more interesting.
They also had the new VG-88 on display, it crashed while I was using it. :-)

kim


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | 


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  8 04:48:12 2000
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Subject: AVSOUND
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:44:40 +0100
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Hiiiiiii thereee!
have you loopers tried the AVSOUND aopplication?
it's great to produce B I G  D E N S E P A D S with wide range of
frequencies!!!

it's a command prompt  MSDOS program which accepts an input wav file and a
few parameters and creates totally different wave data!

if you have a lack of some band freqs in a piece of music, you can get a
wave, equalize it to fit this band, and pass it through AVSOUND. You get a
looped pad sound you can add envelopes which fits in this band freq and
makes your stuff more balanced!

if you have a PC: try it!

[don't know where you can get it, but surely it's on the web! just search
AVSOUND]


Sam
#ICQ 38770781
Email: samu@findermac.com


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Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 01:37:36 -0800
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re:  Seeking synthesizer advice...NAMM
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At 5:21 PM -0800 2/7/00, L Tremblay wrote:
>Most all-in-one swiss-army boxes really suck unless you
>get something at the very high-end. So your choice depends
>in part on your budget. And remember: NAMM just finished,
>which means there are now even more choices, and conversely,
>more opportunities to buy last years model at blow-out
>prices.

don't count on too many more choices. Some of the themes for this year
seemed to be missing-in-action, mergers-and-acquisitions,
barely-saved-from-oblivion, and on-the-deathbed.

Everyone knows about opcode. But how about Lexicon? No booth at all.
According to ex-Lex people, they've laid off all product design engineers
and haven't been doing anything new in most of the last year. In short,
they've been "Harmanized." That's a sad story....

And Kawai? Cool additive synths? nope, they don't do pro products no more.

no sign of Quasimidi. Hopefull they just decided to stay in Germany this
year....

Roctron, saved from oblivion by GHS. (the guitar string company.) who knows
what their future is. Hopefully they can get it going again cause I always
liked those guys.

ART, also saved from oblivion by Yorkville. (or is it Yorktown? whatever.)

E-mu and Ensoniq's step-brotherhood under the Creative parent is hanging in
there somehow. New E-mu sampler's and sound modules were there. Nothing
revolutionary, seemed aimed for lower cost markets. Actually, seems to be
all e-mu, not much ensoniq... and the booth is smaller every year but at
least there's new stuff in it.

Akai, lost in the guitar hall with their exciting updated MPC2000! not much
else there except the Jackson girls.

Digitech was showing exactly 3 products total. One was the original whammy
reissued. Then there was the RP-2000 multieffect pedal and the vocalist
thing they've had for a while. The Johnson division's amp simulator thing
was a plastic chassis in a sealed case. Continued yoy booth shrinkage
there.... More Harmanization?

Zoom was about the same as digitech. Crammed in the corner of some
distributor's booth, no new products.

Crown was apparently bought by Harman, who seems more insatiable than Gibson.

Mackie merged with EAW.

Ibanez and Tama are apparently both part of Hoshino now. I don't know how
long that's been true, but it's the first time I ever saw them stuffed
together in one booth.

any others? I'm sure I missed plenty of goodies.

But get this, Alesis has a real 16 voice analog synth!

Jomox and Electrix have moved their cool little analog synths and filter
effects out of the K-hall to the big time upstairs, that's good. Novation
made it up there too. Electix' stuff is sure fun.

The software and dj stuff keeps growing. As does Gemini's outrageousness.

And Don Buchla is back with his remarkable Marimba Lumina....

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | 


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------=_NextPart_000_01B2_01BF7220.08D41560
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I will post shipping dates as soon as we have finished the first batch. =
We will be sending approx. 150 to the US which, unfortunately, will not =
satisfy the demand; many will have to wait for the second instalment. We =
don't want to rush this splendid product so extensive testing is being =
done before we ship.
Andy Ewen,
R&D Manager.

Trace Elliot Contact Information
*************************************
Trace Elliot (UK) Ltd
Blackwater Trading Estate
The Causeway
Maldon
Essex
United Kingdom
CM9 4GG

Tel: +44 (0)1621 851851
Fax: +44 (0)1621 851932

------=_NextPart_000_01B2_01BF7220.08D41560
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I will post shipping dates as soon as =
we have=20
finished the first batch. We will be sending approx. 150 to the US =
which,=20
unfortunately, will not satisfy the demand; many will have to wait for =
the=20
second instalment. We don't want to rush this splendid product so =
extensive=20
testing is being done before we ship.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Andy Ewen,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>R&amp;D Manager.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Trace Elliot Contact=20
Information<BR>*************************************<BR>Trace Elliot =
(UK)=20
Ltd<BR>Blackwater Trading Estate<BR>The =
Causeway<BR>Maldon<BR>Essex<BR>United=20
Kingdom<BR>CM9 4GG</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tel: +44 (0)1621 851851<BR>Fax: +44 =
(0)1621=20
851932</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  8 07:18:55 2000
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Trace Elliot Ltd <info@trace-elliot.com>
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Whats about europe, do we have a "contingent"?


Trace Elliot Ltd schrieb:

> I will post shipping dates as soon as we have finished the first
> batch. We will be sending approx. 150 to the US which, unfortunately,
> will not satisfy the demand; many will have to wait for the second
> instalment. We don't want to rush this splendid product so extensive
> testing is being done before we ship.Andy Ewen,R&D Manager. Trace
> Elliot Contact Information
> *************************************
> Trace Elliot (UK) Ltd
> Blackwater Trading Estate
> The Causeway
> Maldon
> Essex
> United Kingdom
> CM9 4GG Tel: +44 (0)1621 851851
> Fax: +44 (0)1621 851932

--------------03CE6C37B5DD60E223359D1C
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Whats about europe, do we have a "contingent"?
<br>&nbsp;
<p>Trace Elliot Ltd schrieb:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><style></style>
<font face="Arial"><font size=-1>I
will post shipping dates as soon as we have finished the first batch. We
will be sending approx. 150 to the US which, unfortunately, will not satisfy
the demand; many will have to wait for the second instalment. We don't
want to rush this splendid product so extensive testing is being done before
we ship.</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Andy Ewen,</font></font><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>R&amp;D
Manager.</font></font>&nbsp;<font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Trace Elliot
Contact Information</font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>*************************************</font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Trace Elliot (UK) Ltd</font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Blackwater Trading Estate</font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>The Causeway</font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Maldon</font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Essex</font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>United Kingdom</font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>CM9 4GG</font></font>&nbsp;<font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Tel:
+44 (0)1621 851851</font></font>
<br><font face="Arial"><font size=-1>Fax: +44 (0)1621 851932</font></font></blockquote>

</body>
</html>

--------------03CE6C37B5DD60E223359D1C--


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  8 08:35:53 2000
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Subject: Re: Seeking synthesizer advice
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>If you want a great synth and don't want to spend enough to buy a herd of PRS
>guitars, look at some older (slightly) "workstations", like Roland JV-1000,
>or Korg 01W's and the "T-serise" (T1, T2, T3).  I've owned Trinity's and have
>lusted after the new Triton, but actually my venerable Korg T3 is all I need
>to create serious music and/or chaos, whichever.  And, as a bonus, it has a
>very tractable, realtime looping phrase feature that I use daily.  In fact,
>many times that's exactly where I start...then when things are getting pretty
>well stirred up there for background 'ambience', I grab a guitar or mandolin
>or bass or my Prophecy or a mic and start looping and sampling over that.
>(Sigh) So many fun things to try, so little time.  ;-)
>
>good hunting,
>        hawkeye

Or, as was mentioned on the list recently, you might get a Radio Shack
"experimenter's lab"-type setup and figure out how to make your own
original synth.  Or go to Paia.com for kits....

David Myers


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  8 09:44:00 2000
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Hi there

I need some assistance. I want to get together some people's
knowledge about using Laptops for audio. Do the pro's outdo
the cons? Is having a portable editor sacrificing a noise & glitch
free output? I have a spec in mind:

10 GB HD (SCSI, if that's possible on a Latop)
(8ms or less access, 10,000rpm, A/V compliant)
Gadgetlabs Wave 8/24
128 SDram
8 MB Graphics.
Cool Edit Pro
Yamaha CDRW

Also is there anyone out there from a company in England that
can quote me a price? I'm from Dublin and there is no Audio PC
bundle manufacturers to be seen on this isle.

Any detailed help can access me off-list at:

Michael_Taylor@entemp.ie

Thanks

Michael Taylor


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  8 11:28:10 2000
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From: Rich <rich@nuvision.com>
Subject: Re: VP-9000 VariPhrase Processor
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>Personally, I thought their new hand drum controller was more interesting.
>They also had the new VG-88 on display, it crashed while I was using it. :-)
>
>kim

I will agree with you totally on this.  I've been struggling with drum
machines for the last four years or so, thinking "gee, i wish i could just
play that tom roll or snare hit on with my hands, like a djembe, or
something."  It seems Roland had the same idea!  Another awesome tool with
lots of potential in the right hands.  However $1200 is a hell of a lot of
money to pay for a hand drum!

cheers,

rich


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Subject: Re: EDP return to production...
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Is the Trace EDP going to have a new faceplate with new colors, knobs
etc? Or are they actually gonna make ***exactly*** the same Obie
product (cosmetics)? 

Will they ship with the new s/w? Kim??? 

Will the memory be maxed?

Finally: Is the David Kirkdorfer (sp?) buyer list going to be
honored? Or are these units all bound for retail outlets? If they're
shipping straight to retail outlets, will we be informed where exactly
they're going so we can jump on 'em first?

It's great to hear that we're getting closer!

Best regards,
-Miko

Trace Elliot Ltd schrieb:
> I will post shipping dates as soon as we have finished the first
> batch. We will be sending approx. 150 to the US which,
unfortunately,
> will not satisfy the demand; many will have to wait for the second
> instalment. We don't want to rush this splendid product so
extensive
> testing is being done before we ship.Andy Ewen,R&D Manager. Trace
> Elliot Contact Information
> *************************************
> Trace Elliot (UK) Ltd
> Blackwater Trading Estate
> The Causeway
> Maldon
> Essex
> United Kingdom
> CM9 4GG Tel: +44 (0)1621 851851
> Fax: +44 (0)1621 851932

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  8 12:23:50 2000
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From: "Clifford@BienAppraisers" <bienappraisers@mindspring.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: EDP return to production...
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I saw with my own eyes 4 new edp at the NAMM show- exactly the same as the
old ones but now both footpedal and face plate are sporting the big Gibson
logo- I was tempted to grab the four of them and run- but my sensibilities
got the best of me- -

Cliff

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Biffle <mbiffle@svg.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>;
info@trace-elliot.com <info@trace-elliot.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: EDP return to production...


>Is the Trace EDP going to have a new faceplate with new colors, knobs
>etc? Or are they actually gonna make ***exactly*** the same Obie
>product (cosmetics)?
>
>Will they ship with the new s/w? Kim???
>
>Will the memory be maxed?
>
>Finally: Is the David Kirkdorfer (sp?) buyer list going to be
>honored? Or are these units all bound for retail outlets? If they're
>shipping straight to retail outlets, will we be informed where exactly
>they're going so we can jump on 'em first?
>
>It's great to hear that we're getting closer!
>
>Best regards,
>-Miko
>
>Trace Elliot Ltd schrieb:
>> I will post shipping dates as soon as we have finished the first
>> batch. We will be sending approx. 150 to the US which,
>unfortunately,
>> will not satisfy the demand; many will have to wait for the second
>> instalment. We don't want to rush this splendid product so
>extensive
>> testing is being done before we ship.Andy Ewen,R&D Manager. Trace
>> Elliot Contact Information
>> *************************************
>> Trace Elliot (UK) Ltd
>> Blackwater Trading Estate
>> The Causeway
>> Maldon
>> Essex
>> United Kingdom
>> CM9 4GG Tel: +44 (0)1621 851851
>> Fax: +44 (0)1621 851932
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  8 13:55:30 2000
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Argh... Gibson logos? I guess that's what decals are for... 

-m

>>> "Clifford@BienAppraisers" <bienappraisers@mindspring.com> 02/08
9:20 AM >>>
I saw with my own eyes 4 new edp at the NAMM show- exactly the same
as the
old ones but now both footpedal and face plate are sporting the big
Gibson
logo- I was tempted to grab the four of them and run- but my
sensibilities
got the best of me- -

Cliff

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Biffle <mbiffle@svg.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>;
info@trace-elliot.com <info@trace-elliot.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: EDP return to production...


>Is the Trace EDP going to have a new faceplate with new colors,
knobs
>etc? Or are they actually gonna make ***exactly*** the same Obie
>product (cosmetics)?
>
>Will they ship with the new s/w? Kim???
>
>Will the memory be maxed?
>
>Finally: Is the David Kirkdorfer (sp?) buyer list going to be
>honored? Or are these units all bound for retail outlets? If
they're
>shipping straight to retail outlets, will we be informed where
exactly
>they're going so we can jump on 'em first?
>
>It's great to hear that we're getting closer!
>
>Best regards,
>-Miko
>
>Trace Elliot Ltd schrieb:
>> I will post shipping dates as soon as we have finished the first
>> batch. We will be sending approx. 150 to the US which,
>unfortunately,
>> will not satisfy the demand; many will have to wait for the
second
>> instalment. We don't want to rush this splendid product so
>extensive
>> testing is being done before we ship.Andy Ewen,R&D Manager. Trace
>> Elliot Contact Information
>> *************************************
>> Trace Elliot (UK) Ltd
>> Blackwater Trading Estate
>> The Causeway
>> Maldon
>> Essex
>> United Kingdom
>> CM9 4GG Tel: +44 (0)1621 851851
>> Fax: +44 (0)1621 851932
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  8 13:32:08 2000
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From: landman@wco.com (Mark Landman)
Subject: Re: VP-9000 VariPhrase Processor
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>>Personally, I thought their new hand drum controller was more interesting.
>>They also had the new VG-88 on display, it crashed while I was using it. :-)
>>
>>kim
>
I noticed the sensing on this is "descended" from the VDrums, but what
about the drum voices thenselves? Another rompler, or modeled drum voice?

Mark


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  8 14:18:41 2000
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Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 10:38:37 -0800
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At 8:21 AM -0800 2/8/00, Mike Biffle wrote:
>Is the Trace EDP going to have a new faceplate with new colors, knobs
>etc? Or are they actually gonna make ***exactly*** the same Obie
>product (cosmetics)?

It's the same, although there may be a logo change. Maybe we should try to
convince them to paint it green. ;-)

>Will they ship with the new s/w? Kim???

I think I answered that one before. It's the same soft it's been shipping
with, LoopIIIv5.0, which is rock solid and bug-free. (unless you're claude
;-)  Aurisis software work has no relation to Gibson production schedules,
so any future software versions will come out when we're done with them.
(which is a good thing, software development is always late. ;-)

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | 


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>old ones but now both footpedal and face plate are sporting the >big Gibson
logo- I was tempted to grab the four of them and
>run- but my sensibilities got the best of me-


You've really got to work on that....

bIz

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  8 15:40:50 2000
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From: "Larry Tremblay" <ltct@concentric.net>
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>At 5:21 PM -0800 2/7/00, L Tremblay wrote:
>>Most all-in-one swiss-army boxes really suck unless you
>>get something at the very high-end. So your choice depends
>>in part on your budget. And remember: NAMM just finished,
>>which means there are now even more choices, and conversely,
>>more opportunities to buy last years model at blow-out
>>prices.
>
>don't count on too many more choices. Some of the themes for this year
>seemed to be missing-in-action, mergers-and-acquisitions,
>barely-saved-from-oblivion, and on-the-deathbed.
>
>any others? I'm sure I missed plenty of goodies.
>

>But get this, Alesis has a real 16 voice analog synth!


The Alesis looks very good! I've got my eye on it. The new Korg MS2000
is another new box with great potential too. We've been discussing
these goodies, and others, on Analogue Heaven.

Wahooo!
- Larry T




From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  8 16:18:27 2000
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LET US HEAR MORE OF THE MS2000 PLEASE!
regards
c
Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com wrote:
> 
>At 5:21 PM -0800 2/7/00, L Tremblay wrote:
>>Most all-in-one swiss-army boxes really suck unless you
>>get something at the very high-end. So your choice depends
>>in part on your budget. And remember: NAMM just finished,
>>which means there are now even more choices, and conversely,
>>more opportunities to buy last years model at blow-out
>>prices.
>
>don't count on too many more choices. Some of the themes for this year
>seemed to be missing-in-action, mergers-and-acquisitions,
>barely-saved-from-oblivion, and on-the-deathbed.
>
>any others? I'm sure I missed plenty of goodies.
>

>But get this, Alesis has a real 16 voice analog synth!


The Alesis looks very good! I've got my eye on it. The new Korg MS2000
is another new box with great potential too. We've been discussing
these goodies, and others, on Analogue Heaven.

Wahooo!
- Larry T





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hello

i'm looking for a good drummachine. roland r-8 or boss dr660 are two
machines, i could use with the jamman (... or later an edp ;-) ).
is anyone familiar with one of them?

thanks, jesús

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  8 17:21:41 2000
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Message-ID: <7BAC931E644ED211A90C00805F65CB640282DE47@georgia.exchange.indiana.edu>
From: "Taaffe, Denis G" <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: everybody wants one- indi loopers with CD's  take note
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 17:07:02 -0500 
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Hello,

	ah, just to let you know that the 'Official Denis Taaffe
Merchandise' has arrived, shirts, mugs,etc.. you can get them on-0nline at:

 http://gear.amp3.com/aliengtr 

. Very cool, the shirts have the 'Abducted by Aliens' cd cover
graphic,etc....Impresse the babes with a luxurious 'Abducted by Aliens'
coffe mug..etc....bla bla...sales pitch....

****************************************************************************
*********************************************
 . Actually, this is a free service and I thought other indy musicians would
want to do the same and set up their own.It's good exposure, it's free and
the shirts are pretty neat and they put your CD cover on them.CHECK IT
OUT!!! you can sign up at http://gear.amp3.com

Thanks
Denis

Denis Taaffe
denis_aliengtr@geocities.com
http://www.dtguitar.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  8 18:04:45 2000
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From: "Greg S" <g716@hotmail.com>
To: "Loopers Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Cc: "ALTO MUSIC" <alto@warwick.net>
Subject: Alto Music offering EDP discounts to LD members.
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 14:48:14 -0800
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Loopers:

Jon from Alto just called me to let me know they'll be offering a discount
for LD members on the long awaited EDP.

Echoplex: $640
Footpedal: $100.
(The EDP list will be something like $1100 I'm told )

According to Alto's Gibson rep,  Gibson will be shipping 40 EDP's to Alto in
3 to 4 weeks.  Please note, this is Gibson's word, not Jon's and certainly
not mine.  Jon will keep us updated with news as he gets it.

If you want to get on the waiting list email Jon at Alto (alto@warwick.com)
or call him at 914 692 6922.  Jon said he does NOT still have the list of
EDP buyers-in-waiting who missed one of the units from last year.  If you
were on that list, please contact Jon if you're still interested.

Note: this was an unsolicited offer from Alto.  Jon still had my phone
number from the DL4 buy I helped coordinate last Dec (which is still
generating sales according to Jon).  He called out of the blue to make this
offer.  Its rather nice to see a store like Alto supporting groups like
Looper's Delight.

-Greg

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  8 18:30:53 2000
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Cc: "ALTO MUSIC" <alto@warwick.net>
References: <20000208224815.40764.qmail@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Alto Music offering EDP discounts to LD members.
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 15:21:28 -0800
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Quick corrections:
1) Jon DOES still have the list of last year's buyers-in-waiting.  If you
were on it, you should still follow up with Jon to confirm whether or not
you plan to purchase.

2) List price is $1150.

----- Original Message -----
From: Greg S <g716@hotmail.com>
To: Loopers Delight <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Cc: ALTO MUSIC <alto@warwick.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 2:48 PM
Subject: Alto Music offering EDP discounts to LD members.


> Loopers:
>
> Jon from Alto just called me to let me know they'll be offering a discount
> for LD members on the long awaited EDP.
>
> Echoplex: $640
> Footpedal: $100.
> (The EDP list will be something like $1100 I'm told )
>
> According to Alto's Gibson rep,  Gibson will be shipping 40 EDP's to Alto
in
> 3 to 4 weeks.  Please note, this is Gibson's word, not Jon's and certainly
> not mine.  Jon will keep us updated with news as he gets it.
>
> If you want to get on the waiting list email Jon at Alto
(alto@warwick.com)
> or call him at 914 692 6922.  Jon said he does NOT still have the list of
> EDP buyers-in-waiting who missed one of the units from last year.  If you
> were on that list, please contact Jon if you're still interested.
>
> Note: this was an unsolicited offer from Alto.  Jon still had my phone
> number from the DL4 buy I helped coordinate last Dec (which is still
> generating sales according to Jon).  He called out of the blue to make
this
> offer.  Its rather nice to see a store like Alto supporting groups like
> Looper's Delight.
>
> -Greg
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  8 18:59:37 2000
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From: "Judson Crane" <jcrane@mindspring.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
References: <20000208224815.40764.qmail@hotmail.com> <20000208232052.82238.qmail@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Alto Music offering EDP discounts to LD members.
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 18:41:33 -0500
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The email link doesn't seem to be working.  It just returns my email
immediately.
I guess I will call.

Jud

----- Original Message -----
From: G716 - Greg S. <g716@hotmail.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Cc: ALTO MUSIC <alto@warwick.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: Alto Music offering EDP discounts to LD members.


> Quick corrections:
> 1) Jon DOES still have the list of last year's buyers-in-waiting.  If you
> were on it, you should still follow up with Jon to confirm whether or not
> you plan to purchase.
>
> 2) List price is $1150.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Greg S <g716@hotmail.com>
> To: Loopers Delight <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
> Cc: ALTO MUSIC <alto@warwick.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 2:48 PM
> Subject: Alto Music offering EDP discounts to LD members.
>
>
> > Loopers:
> >
> > Jon from Alto just called me to let me know they'll be offering a
discount
> > for LD members on the long awaited EDP.
> >
> > Echoplex: $640
> > Footpedal: $100.
> > (The EDP list will be something like $1100 I'm told )
> >
> > According to Alto's Gibson rep,  Gibson will be shipping 40 EDP's to
Alto
> in
> > 3 to 4 weeks.  Please note, this is Gibson's word, not Jon's and
certainly
> > not mine.  Jon will keep us updated with news as he gets it.
> >
> > If you want to get on the waiting list email Jon at Alto
> (alto@warwick.com)
> > or call him at 914 692 6922.  Jon said he does NOT still have the list
of
> > EDP buyers-in-waiting who missed one of the units from last year.  If
you
> > were on that list, please contact Jon if you're still interested.
> >
> > Note: this was an unsolicited offer from Alto.  Jon still had my phone
> > number from the DL4 buy I helped coordinate last Dec (which is still
> > generating sales according to Jon).  He called out of the blue to make
> this
> > offer.  Its rather nice to see a store like Alto supporting groups like
> > Looper's Delight.
> >
> > -Greg
> >
> >
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  8 19:06:35 2000
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Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 16:03:34 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: landman@wco.com (Mark Landman)
Subject: Re: Alto Music offering EDP discounts to LD members.
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>Quick corrections:
>1) Jon DOES still have the list of last year's buyers-in-waiting.  If you
>were on it, you should still follow up with Jon to confirm whether or not
>you plan to purchase.
>
>2) List price is $1150.
>

This is in no way intended to be part of the "bash EDP/ Snufflelufu..etc"
banter, but what happened to the projected lower price?

Mark


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb  8 20:03:11 2000
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Reply-To: <jbiz@linkexchange.com>
From: "Jonathan El-Bizri" <jbiz@linkexchange.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Alto Music offering EDP discounts to LD members.
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 16:58:08 -0800
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Bash! Bash! I'm sorry, but that's a ridiculous price.

bIz
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Landman [mailto:landman@wco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 4:04 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Alto Music offering EDP discounts to LD members.


>Quick corrections:
>1) Jon DOES still have the list of last year's buyers-in-waiting.  If you
>were on it, you should still follow up with Jon to confirm whether or not
>you plan to purchase.
>
>2) List price is $1150.
>

This is in no way intended to be part of the "bash EDP/ Snufflelufu..etc"
banter, but what happened to the projected lower price?

Mark


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  9 00:14:04 2000
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From: "Bill Fox" <billfox@fast.net>
To: <Undisclosed.Recipients@post2.fast.net>
Subject: EMUSIC Playlist
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 23:48:14 -0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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                            Playlist for EMUSIC

EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show, airs each Thursday
at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem, PA and 93.9 FM in
Easton, PA and Phillipsburg, NJ.

                        Show #150        February 3, 2000.

On this show, I began a month-long focus on American synthesist Michael =
Garrison.
Tonight's experimental music.  Tonight's Feature CD at Midnight was =
Aurora Dawn on the
Windspell label.


ARTIST                  TRACK                    ALBUM (label)
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
11:04 pm
Jean Michel Jarre       Fourth Rendezvous        Rendezvous (Dreyfus)
Pyramid Peak            Ocean Drive              Ocena Drive (Invisible =
Shadows)
Lightwave (fr NAV 2/00) Cantus Umbrarum          Cantus Umbrarum =
(Horizon Music)
Tony Stoufer            A Mood Apart             One Fell Swoop =
(Absolute Obscurity)
Kevin Keller            Invisible Rituals        Pendulum (Lektronic =
Soundscapes)
Dave Fulton             Particle Reversal *      Hard Particles (Eurock)

12:00 am
Michael Garrison        Threshold                Aurora Dawn (Windspell =
Music)
Michael Garrison        The Solar Sea            Aurora Dawn (Windspell =
Music)
Michael Garrison        Magnetic Wind            Aurora Dawn (Windspell =
Music)
Michael Garrison        Aurora Visage            Aurora Dawn (Windspell =
Music)
Michael Garrison        Aurora Mist              Aurora Dawn (Windspell =
Music)
Michael Garrison        Fade the Night           Aurora Dawn (Windspell =
Music)
Michael Garrison        Aurora Dawn (Pts 1-5)    Aurora Dawn (Windspell =
Music)
Spectral Voices         Sun Shower               Coalescence (Spectral =
Spiral)
Spectral Voices         Merge                    Coalescence (Spectral =
Spiral)
Spectral Voices         Outback Shaman Fry       Coalescence (Spectral =
Spiral)
Spectral Voices         As Were the Ancients     Coalescence (Spectral =
Spiral)
Synthetic Block         Plangent Bleating *      Synthetic Block =
(Mindspore)

1:00 am

 * =3D exerpt
VA =3D Various Artists (compilation)

On the next EMUSIC, I'll continue the month-long focus on American =
synthesist
Michael Garrison.  The feature CD at Midnight will be Eclipse on the =
Windspell
label.

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT=20
color=3D#000000>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Playlist for EMUSIC</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT=20
size=3D2></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier =
New"><FONT=20
color=3D#000000></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT =
size=3D2>EMUSIC, an=20
electronic, ambient, and space music show, airs each Thursday<BR>at =
11:04 pm on=20
WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem, PA and 93.9 FM in<BR>Easton, PA =
and=20
Phillipsburg, NJ.</FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT=20
size=3D2></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;=20
Show #150&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; February 3,=20
2000.</FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT=20
size=3D2></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT size=3D2>On =
this show, I=20
began a month-long focus on American synthesist Michael =
Garrison.<BR>Tonight's=20
experimental music.&nbsp; Tonight's Feature CD at Midnight was Aurora =
Dawn on=20
the<BR>Windspell label.</FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT=20
size=3D2></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT=20
size=3D2><BR>ARTIST&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
TRACK&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
ALBUM =
(label)<BR>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>11:04 pm<BR>Jean Michel=20
Jarre&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fourth=20
Rendezvous&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Rendezvous=20
(Dreyfus)<BR>Pyramid=20
Peak&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Ocean=20
Drive&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;=20
Ocena Drive (Invisible Shadows)<BR>Lightwave (fr NAV 2/00) Cantus=20
Umbrarum&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Cantus =
Umbrarum=20
(Horizon Music)<BR>Tony=20
Stoufer&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 A Mood=20
Apart&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;=20
One Fell Swoop (Absolute Obscurity)<BR>Kevin=20
Keller&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =

Invisible Rituals&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Pendulum =
(Lektronic=20
Soundscapes)<BR>Dave=20
Fulton&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;=20
Particle Reversal *&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hard Particles=20
(Eurock)</FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT=20
size=3D2></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT =
size=3D2>12:00=20
am<BR>Michael Garrison&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Threshold&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Aurora Dawn (Windspell Music)<BR>Michael=20
Garrison&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The Solar=20
Sea&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Aurora=20
Dawn (Windspell Music)<BR>Michael=20
Garrison&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Magnetic=20
Wind&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Aurora=20
Dawn (Windspell Music)<BR>Michael=20
Garrison&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Aurora=20
Visage&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Aurora=20
Dawn (Windspell Music)<BR>Michael=20
Garrison&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Aurora=20
Mist&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;=20
Aurora Dawn (Windspell Music)<BR>Michael=20
Garrison&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fade the=20
Night&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Aurora =
Dawn=20
(Windspell Music)<BR>Michael =
Garrison&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Aurora Dawn (Pts 1-5)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Aurora Dawn (Windspell=20
Music)<BR>Spectral =
Voices&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sun=20
Shower&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Coalescence (Spectral Spiral)<BR>Spectral=20
Voices&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Merge&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Coalescence (Spectral Spiral)<BR>Spectral=20
Voices&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Outback Shaman=20
Fry&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Coalescence (Spectral=20
Spiral)<BR>Spectral =
Voices&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; As=20
Were the Ancients&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Coalescence (Spectral=20
Spiral)<BR>Synthetic =
Block&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Plangent Bleating *&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Synthetic Block=20
(Mindspore)</FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT=20
size=3D2></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT =
size=3D2>1:00=20
am</FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT=20
size=3D2></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT =
size=3D2>&nbsp;* =3D=20
exerpt<BR>VA =3D Various Artists (compilation)</FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT =

size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT=20
size=3D2></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3D"Courier New"></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>On the next =
EMUSIC, I'll=20
continue the month-long focus on American synthesist<BR>Michael =
Garrison.&nbsp;=20
The feature CD at Midnight will be Eclipse on the=20
Windspell<BR>label.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  9 00:16:36 2000
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Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:52:00 -0800
From: eric <eobertha@inreach.com>
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Subject: looper-friendly MIDI sequencer?
References: <NCBBKFJMJKCMMLMEDDFACEPPFFAA.jbiz@linkexchange.com>
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howdy.
I use MOTU's Performer (not DP) - a not-so-aptly-named piece of software
IMHO.  Interested in actually performing with malleable MIDI situations,
I have found that a simple act such as vamping on a particular measure
of a sequence and then continuing on to an another vamp on down the line
a bit is possible (with Perf.) but akward.  The memory loop points are
designed (as is the Polar function in DP) more for creating than
performing.  So I am frustrated.

Here is an example of a software user interface that would turn me on:
little whirlpools dot the screen - representing loops; lines are drawn
between many of the spirals - representing transitions.  The idea is
simple:  click a spiral and you loop, click a line between that spiral
and any other and at the next loop end (like a drum machine (a feature
sorely lacking in Performer)) the music follows a precomposed transition
to another loop pool.  The system could work for a single song or an
entire reperetoire.

Has anyone seen or heard anything about anything even remotely like
this?
Is this doable in MAX?  Anyone interested in designing some software?

carry on,
eric o.

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  9 00:16:40 2000
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From: "matt davignon" <mattdavignon@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Found Sound Chain-Letter CD now available!
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:55:50 PST
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Hi everyone!

We just finished making a CD completely of Found Sounds (previously existing 
media and recordings, sometimes including our own older recordings.

The following artists, mostly from Loopers Delight, are included on this CD:

Tim Nelson
David Cooper Orton
Josh Pyorre
Raul Bonell Tomas
Echovirus (aka Rob Switzer)
Michael Klobuchar
Superfluid (aka Morgan Hamilton Lang)
Dennis Leas
and myself (Matt Davignon)

Come! Hear us all bark at the challenge of using no real instruments for an 
entire disc!

You can download the entire (or just some - your choice) contents of the CD 
at
http://www.music.columbia.edu/~cecenter/mhl21/ct/foundsound.html

or just get there the easy way by going to

www.loopxchange.com

You can also order the disc for the unheard-of low price of $5 per disc. 
(It's a full length disc if you were wondering). Contact me via e-mail if 
you want one.

Matt Davignon

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  9 00:42:48 2000
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Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 21:30:21 -0800
Subject: Re: looper-friendly MIDI sequencer?
From: Andrew Pask <andrew@kaleidacousticon.com>
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Yeah, in MAX that would be possible,
I've heard something like that already;
a patch where a MIDI loop "morphed"
into another loop, sounded pretty amazing, much more interesting than the
actual loops sometimes.I don't know about the GUI though, you might have to
deal with something a little less flamboyant ("nah man, I only dance on the
inside")
You could do it with MAX/MSP with actual samples if you worked with a bunch
of preselected samples and composed transitions but I figure you are already
doing that with a "real" sampler anyway.I imagine anything else would sound
like a cross fade no matter how hard you made it for yourself.
If I find those MIDI morphing patches, I think I have them somewhere, I'll
put a note up on the list for anyone who wants them.

Cheers


Andrew 

> From: eric <eobertha@inreach.com>
> Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 20:52:00 -0800
> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Subject: looper-friendly MIDI sequencer?
> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 00:16:36 -0500
> 
> howdy.
> I use MOTU's Performer (not DP) - a not-so-aptly-named piece of software
> IMHO.  Interested in actually performing with malleable MIDI situations,
> I have found that a simple act such as vamping on a particular measure
> of a sequence and then continuing on to an another vamp on down the line
> a bit is possible (with Perf.) but akward.  The memory loop points are
> designed (as is the Polar function in DP) more for creating than
> performing.  So I am frustrated.
> 
> Here is an example of a software user interface that would turn me on:
> little whirlpools dot the screen - representing loops; lines are drawn
> between many of the spirals - representing transitions.  The idea is
> simple:  click a spiral and you loop, click a line between that spiral
> and any other and at the next loop end (like a drum machine (a feature
> sorely lacking in Performer)) the music follows a precomposed transition
> to another loop pool.  The system could work for a single song or an
> entire reperetoire.
> 
> Has anyone seen or heard anything about anything even remotely like
> this?
> Is this doable in MAX?  Anyone interested in designing some software?
> 
> carry on,
> eric o.
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  9 01:00:56 2000
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From: "Larry Tremblay" <ltct@concentric.net>
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Subject: Re: Re: Seeking synthesizer advice...NAMM
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 00:57:13 -0500
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>LET US HEAR MORE OF THE MS2000 PLEASE!
>regards
>c

Here's the NAMM blurb. Check out the Korg site too.

ms2000 & ms2000R - preview

Feature Rich - The MS2000 and MS2000R are housed in stylish 
metal casings with the MS2000 featuring traditional wooden 
end blocks and a 44-note light weight velocity sensitive keyboard.
The MS2000R can be used equally well in a 19-inch rack or as 
a desktop module. Both units feature the following voice
structure : 
2 OSCs, 
1 Filter, 
1 amp, 
2 EGs, 
2 LFOs. 
* Effects : Delay, Distortion, Chorus/Flanger.
* Arpeggiator. 
* External Audio In : 2. 
* 16-band Vocoder!!!!

See: http://www.korg.co.jp/products/synthe/MS2000/MS2000.html




From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  9 02:03:48 2000
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> If I find those MIDI morphing patches, I think I have them somewhere, I'll
> put a note up on the list for anyone who wants them.

Thanks, Andrew.
That sounds intriguing...
eo

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  9 04:56:19 2000
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Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 00:52:09 -0800
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: looper-friendly MIDI sequencer?
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At 9:30 PM -0800 2/8/00, Andrew Pask wrote:
>Yeah, in MAX that would be possible,
>I've heard something like that already;
>a patch where a MIDI loop "morphed"
>into another loop, sounded pretty amazing, much more interesting than the
>actual loops sometimes.I don't know about the GUI though, you might have to
>deal with something a little less flamboyant ("nah man, I only dance on the
>inside")
>You could do it with MAX/MSP with actual samples if you worked with a bunch
>of preselected samples and composed transitions but I figure you are already
>doing that with a "real" sampler anyway.I imagine anything else would sound
>like a cross fade no matter how hard you made it for yourself.
>If I find those MIDI morphing patches, I think I have them somewhere, I'll
>put a note up on the list for anyone who wants them.
>

I remember doing this sort of thing with neural net objects for Max back
when I was taking computer music classes. People did lots of cool stuff,
morphing between different time signatures, different musical styles,
different harmonies, different grooves, etc. All of the most interesting
stuff happens somewhere in the middle, of course! Great fun.

I remember seeing a performance at CNMAT where David Wessel had a Buchla
Thunder for a controller, with different pakistani percussion grooves at
each ends of all the touch sensitive sliders. Neural nets were used in a
max patch to interpolate all the area in between, so as he slid his fingers
along the sliders, the grooves would be morphing between these two points.
The sliders are pressure sensitive as well, and he had pressure assigned to
density of the groove. So a light touch on the slider was a very sparse
groove, and more pressure would add more and more elements to the
percussion part, filling it in. So as you can imagine, this was a very
expressive, real-time approach to controlling sequences for performance. A
great way to control very complex percussion parts too. The performance was
very cool. In addition to David was a very famous Pakistani singer whose
name I can't remember at the moment, and Matt Wright playing drones with a
wacom tablet connected to more max patches controlling an
analysis/resynthesis synth running on an Indy. They were doing
"traditional" Pakistani/North Indian type music, very complex and
emotional, all improvised/performed live.

I always think about this whenever I hear people exclaim "Drum and Bass
can't be done live!" This was way more complex than most D&B, all with
real-time improvisations of sequences and samples. It just takes some
imagination applied to how the instruments work.

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | 


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  9 05:44:08 2000
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It's a small price to pay for such an excellent product. One was sold =
secondhand via NET auction for $3000.
I can assure everyone that we are making the slimmest of margins on the =
EDP. Ah!, the joys of manufacturing.
Andy



Trace Elliot Contact Information
*************************************
Trace Elliot (UK) Ltd
Blackwater Trading Estate
The Causeway
Maldon
Essex
United Kingdom
CM9 4GG

Tel: +44 (0)1621 851851
Fax: +44 (0)1621 851932

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It's a small price to pay for such an =
excellent=20
product. One was sold secondhand via NET auction for $3000.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I can assure everyone that we are =
making the=20
slimmest of margins on the EDP. Ah!, the joys of =
manufacturing.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Andy</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Trace Elliot Contact=20
Information<BR>*************************************<BR>Trace Elliot =
(UK)=20
Ltd<BR>Blackwater Trading Estate<BR>The =
Causeway<BR>Maldon<BR>Essex<BR>United=20
Kingdom<BR>CM9 4GG</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tel: +44 (0)1621 851851<BR>Fax: +44 =
(0)1621=20
851932</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  9 05:57:45 2000
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From: "Trace Elliot Ltd" <info@trace-elliot.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
References: <B4C450BD.1A97%hartne.t@apple.com>
Subject: Re: SnuffleuppaPlex sighted again?
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 10:37:58 -0000
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No these were actual production units. We are using the prototypes as copy
guides for manufacturing. More are being made every day,
Andy Ewen.
Trace Elliot Contact Information
*************************************
Trace Elliot (UK) Ltd
Blackwater Trading Estate
The Causeway
Maldon
Essex
United Kingdom
CM9 4GG

Tel: +44 (0)1621 851851
Fax: +44 (0)1621 851932
----- Original Message -----
From: Travis Hartnett <hartne.t@apple.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 4:36 PM
Subject: SnuffleuppaPlex sighted again?


> Looks like we'll receive no interruption in the responsive customer
service
> that characterizes the Echoplex market.
>
> TH
>
> > I saw four Echoplexes in the Gibson rep/meeting room.  Not hooked up,
> > though.  I asked a Trace Elliot rep if he knew anything about release
date
> > and street price.  He was very nice, but didn't tell me anything all of
you
> > haven't already heard for the last two years.  I did notice that the
serial
> > numbers on the back were hand written and had numbers like 01-0001,
> > 01-0002, etc... so those must have been the prototypes we've been
hearing
> > about.
>
>

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That seems like a feasable time-frame. They are coming thriugh =
production as I write this. A bit slow to start but as we get more =
familier they will steam through.
Andy
Trace Elliot, on behalf of Gibson. =20



Trace Elliot Contact Information
*************************************
Trace Elliot (UK) Ltd
Blackwater Trading Estate
The Causeway
Maldon
Essex
United Kingdom
CM9 4GG

Tel: +44 (0)1621 851851
Fax: +44 (0)1621 851932

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>That seems like a feasable time-frame. =
They are=20
coming thriugh production as I write this. A bit slow to start but as we =
get=20
more familier they will steam through.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Andy</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Trace Elliot, on behalf of =
Gibson.&nbsp;=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Trace Elliot Contact=20
Information<BR>*************************************<BR>Trace Elliot =
(UK)=20
Ltd<BR>Blackwater Trading Estate<BR>The =
Causeway<BR>Maldon<BR>Essex<BR>United=20
Kingdom<BR>CM9 4GG</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tel: +44 (0)1621 851851<BR>Fax: +44 =
(0)1621=20
851932</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  9 07:24:52 2000
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Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 23:15:40 +1100
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"G716 - Greg S." wrote:
> 
> 
> 2) List price is $1150.
> 

ouch ... that should translate into AUS$2500 - $3000 ... again i say
ouch. ummmm... will they be shipping to Australia? :) i guess i don't
really need a car .. lol.

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  9 07:35:35 2000
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From: leocavallo <cavallo@dada.it>
Subject: Jamman "A" message on startup
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hi all

anyone knows what does it mean this "A" message on power on?
if I press Function + Reset/Bypass it goes away, but...

thnx
ciao
leo

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  9 10:34:58 2000
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From: Todd Madson <crash@waste.org>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Cheap synths
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Well, I'm primarily a guitarist but have a knack for tracking down
cheap synths.

I bought a Casio MT-240 10 years ago for $90 because it was riddled
with PPG Waveterm samples.  It's MIDIable and once you process it 
through my Lexicon gear you'd never know it was a $90 keyboard I 
bought at a discount store.  We used to do juvenile pranks with 
these keyboards in the store years ago, ask if you want what we did.

Gear score number two: when a keyboardist friend of mine bought a 
Kurzweil 88 key weighted board and Korg M1R and some Roland synth,
he let his Korg Poly 61 rot in his basement.  I told him I was 
learning keys so he let me have his old Poly 61.  It's got that
eighties sound, a great arpeggiator, and can be used for a bunch
of pads and stuff for drones and loops.  Again, I process it to 
death to get relatively modern sounds out of it.  I like using the
arpeggiator with delays to create hypnotic loops.

Gear score number three:  I got a Yamaha CS1X synth late last summer
for about $400.  It was the floor display model and it was in great
shape.  They tossed in a MIDI interface and I was ready to rock (sort
of).  This one actually has knobs and pretty decent sounds all by it-
self.  This one also has a great arpeggiator and a lot of analog and
chimey digital bell sounds as well, and samples from the wavestation,
PPG and Moog/Prophet sounds.  Great for drones, loops and atmospheres.
It even has great lead sounds.  A good deal.  The most I've spent on
a synth so far.

I'm hoping someday to find some other synths at basement prices.  I
was keeping an eye on the Ensoniq Fizmo because it was being discontinued
and it was as cheap as $200-400 at local stores.  It's a real waveform
synth ala PPG and had some hypnotic pads with great animation.  I hear
it's a bear to program but I don't care if I can get it cheap.  I was 
probably driving the salespeople at a local Mars nuts with my beehive
of ooze and drones with goofy solos on the top (faux digital flute?)

Hey!  One mans Casio is another mans Synclavier.  I should mention that
the sounds I go for are not the typical bar-band-cover-tune sounds, but
giant aluminum locus waves and reverberations.  What works for me might
make you sick.

Now, I have yet to find something that will play great retro sounds, 
modern eerie sounds, will let you sample and record stuff to discs,
make stuff sound like an old record with scratches and also sound like
a symphony orchestra string section (with cinemascope sound quality)
but I'm sure someday something like that will exist.



From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  9 11:49:11 2000
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From: Todd Madson <crash@waste.org>
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Anyone know what the list price of the new Alesis analog synth is?

It looks kind of like a Waldorf Q, but probably much cheaper.

And not as yellow (darn).  But still very cool.



From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  9 12:48:38 2000
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Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:37:07 -0800
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At 10:37 AM -0600 2/9/00, Todd Madson wrote:
>Anyone know what the list price of the new Alesis analog synth is?
>
>It looks kind of like a Waldorf Q, but probably much cheaper.
>
>And not as yellow (darn).  But still very cool.

Not particularly cheaper, either, at $3500.

Chris

_________________________________________________________
The optimist sees a glass half full...     | Chris Muir
The pessimist sees a glass half empty...   | cbm@well.com
The realist sees a glass twice as big as it needs to be.

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From: "Larry Tremblay" <ltct@concentric.net>
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The new Alesis Andromeda will list at $3500.00...
Street price probably much lower. Maybe $2700-2900.

- Larry


>Anyone know what the list price of the new Alesis analog synth is?
>
>It looks kind of like a Waldorf Q, but probably much cheaper.
>
>And not as yellow (darn).  But still very cool.
>
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  9 12:52:50 2000
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Subject: RE: 
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 09:50:45 -0800
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So what? Just because one insane Kurzweil slaseperson was prepared to pay
$3,000 becuase he though he would never see one built again doesn't mean
that you are going to sell many at $1100. The product will die and then they
will not be made again.

bIz
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Trace Elliot Ltd [mailto:info@trace-elliot.com]
  Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 2:24 AM
  To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
  Subject:


  It's a small price to pay for such an excellent product. One was sold
secondhand via NET auction for $3000.
  I can assure everyone that we are making the slimmest of margins on the
EDP. Ah!, the joys of manufacturing.
  Andy



  Trace Elliot Contact Information
  *************************************
  Trace Elliot (UK) Ltd
  Blackwater Trading Estate
  The Causeway
  Maldon
  Essex
  United Kingdom
  CM9 4GG

  Tel: +44 (0)1621 851851
  Fax: +44 (0)1621 851932

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<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D450594717-09022000>So=20
what? Just because one insane Kurzweil slaseperson was prepared to pay =
$3,000=20
becuase he though he would never see one built again doesn't mean that =
you are=20
going to sell many at $1100. The product will die and then they will not =
be made=20
again.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D450594717-09022000></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D450594717-09022000>bIz</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Trace Elliot Ltd=20
  [mailto:info@trace-elliot.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, February 09, =
2000=20
  2:24 AM<BR><B>To:</B> =
Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
  <BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It's a small price to pay for such an =
excellent=20
  product. One was sold secondhand via NET auction for =
$3000.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I can assure everyone that we are =
making the=20
  slimmest of margins on the EDP. Ah!, the joys of =
manufacturing.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Andy</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Trace Elliot Contact=20
  Information<BR>*************************************<BR>Trace Elliot =
(UK)=20
  Ltd<BR>Blackwater Trading Estate<BR>The =
Causeway<BR>Maldon<BR>Essex<BR>United=20
  Kingdom<BR>CM9 4GG</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Tel: +44 (0)1621 851851<BR>Fax: +44 =
(0)1621=20
  851932</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF72E3.22A11D30--

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Hey everyone... we've also just heard they're going for ~$660 at Alto.
This is about $100 more than we paid in the previous Alto deal. More
expensive? Yes... Available and in a similar ballpark? YES! They will
probalby cost more at other stores, but thems the breaks gang... This
bitching about $1100 is not doing much for me...

-m

>>> "Jonathan El-Bizri" <jbiz@linkexchange.com> 02/09 9:50 AM >>>
So what? Just because one insane Kurzweil slaseperson was prepared to
pay
$3,000 becuase he though he would never see one built again doesn't
mean
that you are going to sell many at $1100. The product will die and
then they
will not be made again.

bIz
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Trace Elliot Ltd [mailto:info@trace-elliot.com] 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 2:24 AM
  To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com 
  Subject:


  It's a small price to pay for such an excellent product. One was
sold
secondhand via NET auction for $3000.
  I can assure everyone that we are making the slimmest of margins on
the
EDP. Ah!, the joys of manufacturing.
  Andy



  Trace Elliot Contact Information
  *************************************
  Trace Elliot (UK) Ltd
  Blackwater Trading Estate
  The Causeway
  Maldon
  Essex
  United Kingdom
  CM9 4GG

  Tel: +44 (0)1621 851851
  Fax: +44 (0)1621 851932

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  9 14:26:36 2000
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From: Kim Flint <kflint@ati.com>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Silly off-topic but COULD be on topic question
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 11:01:35 -0800 
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Chris Muir said:
> At 10:37 AM -0600 2/9/00, Todd Madson wrote:
> >Anyone know what the list price of the new Alesis analog synth is?
> >
> >It looks kind of like a Waldorf Q, but probably much cheaper.
> >
> >And not as yellow (darn).  But still very cool.
> 
> Not particularly cheaper, either, at $3500.

The guy told me $3600, and it won't be out until fall. It's true analog
though, with a nice feature set and a great sound. It seems to me you'd have
to be a real analog fanatic to pick it over the numerous "digitally modeled
analog" synths out there, but I don't think you would be unhappy if you did.

OB loop: Mike Matthews of Electro-Harmonix says a 16 Second Delay reissue is
nowhere near completion.....

___________________________________________________________
Kim Flint					408-845-6383
Manager, System Engineering		kflint@ati.com
ATI Research, Inc.			http://www.ati.com

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> OB loop: Mike Matthews of Electro-Harmonix says a 16 Second Delay
reissue is nowhere near completion.....

Talk about salt in the wound! 8-)

-m

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OB loop: Mike Matthews of Electro-Harmonix says a 16 Second Delay reissue is
nowhere near completion.....

** suprise, suprise, suprise (on best gomer pyle imitation)

stig

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this must be parallel ideation at work again.. damn them mayans.. i am
currently spec-ing a platform for a real-time opensource performance
oriented loop tool... looking at maxmsp, beos, and linux...

among the features would be the ability to visually arrange the loop
fragments as they are entered, and to transition between scenes gradually--
fade this snip in over n bars, for example.. with a performance-oriented
user interface...

backwards--
the idea extends the basic delay line to a more acid-like concept where you
have fragments which together form the piece.. the fragments all loop, are
all synced together and with midiclock. fragments could initially be tapped
in.

one thing id like to work on is having switching between multiple outputs--
so that you could potentially build sections of the piece in your own
private headphone mix and then fade them in to a mainmix, or blast them in..
multiple synced musicians working together could coordinate pieces and work
on different substructures within the soundspace simultaneously.


of course, its just a lofty dream. but manifestation is inevitable when we
see the illusion of rhythm.


btw if anyone is interested in collaborating, pls let me know. im doing a
little work for David Z. of Cycling74 and trying to hook into CNMAT in
Berkeley so that the resource pool builds.. The MAXMSP people had this idea
awhile ago and toyed with it.

in lakech
-jan

-----Original Message-----
From: eric <eobertha@inreach.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 9:13 PM
Subject: looper-friendly MIDI sequencer?


>howdy.
>I use MOTU's Performer (not DP) - a not-so-aptly-named piece of software
>IMHO.  Interested in actually performing with malleable MIDI situations,
>I have found that a simple act such as vamping on a particular measure
>of a sequence and then continuing on to an another vamp on down the line
>a bit is possible (with Perf.) but akward.  The memory loop points are
>designed (as is the Polar function in DP) more for creating than
>performing.  So I am frustrated.
>
>Here is an example of a software user interface that would turn me on:
>little whirlpools dot the screen - representing loops; lines are drawn
>between many of the spirals - representing transitions.  The idea is
>simple:  click a spiral and you loop, click a line between that spiral
>and any other and at the next loop end (like a drum machine (a feature
>sorely lacking in Performer)) the music follows a precomposed transition
>to another loop pool.  The system could work for a single song or an
>entire reperetoire.
>
>Has anyone seen or heard anything about anything even remotely like
>this?
>Is this doable in MAX?  Anyone interested in designing some software?
>
>carry on,
>eric o.
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  9 16:47:18 2000
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Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 13:30:10 -0800
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Organization: treehouse
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i agree w/ miko.

i mean, is it disputed that there's anything remotely in this price range
that does the kinds of things this box does (or will do)? i can't wait
for the next wave of nickel & dime arguments once these units hit the
stores..:-)

lance g.


Mike Biffle wrote:

> Hey everyone... we've also just heard they're going for ~$660 at Alto.
> This is about $100 more than we paid in the previous Alto deal. More
> expensive? Yes... Available and in a similar ballpark? YES! They will
> probalby cost more at other stores, but thems the breaks gang... This
> bitching about $1100 is not doing much for me...
>
> -m
>
> >>> "Jonathan El-Bizri" <jbiz@linkexchange.com> 02/09 9:50 AM >>>
> So what? Just because one insane Kurzweil slaseperson was prepared to
> pay
> $3,000 becuase he though he would never see one built again doesn't
> mean
> that you are going to sell many at $1100. The product will die and
> then they
> will not be made again.
>
> bIz
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Trace Elliot Ltd [mailto:info@trace-elliot.com]
>   Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 2:24 AM
>   To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>   Subject:
>
>   It's a small price to pay for such an excellent product. One was
> sold
> secondhand via NET auction for $3000.
>   I can assure everyone that we are making the slimmest of margins on
> the
> EDP. Ah!, the joys of manufacturing.
>   Andy
>
>   Trace Elliot Contact Information
>   *************************************
>   Trace Elliot (UK) Ltd
>   Blackwater Trading Estate
>   The Causeway
>   Maldon
>   Essex
>   United Kingdom
>   CM9 4GG
>
>   Tel: +44 (0)1621 851851
>   Fax: +44 (0)1621 851932

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  9 17:04:41 2000
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From: David Kirkdorffer <DKirkdorffer@exapps.com>
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I'm trying to contact the following people.

If you read this, please send me e-mail.

Paul Pokorski
Mike Criscione
Gregor Hilbe
Tyondai Braxton
Florian Antoine
Mark Sottilaro
Stephen Katz
Robert Bulanyi
Trent Humphreys

David Kirkdorffer

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From: "Dan Bartell" <speck45@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Fwd: FW: NELS CLINE & GREGG BENDIAN - INTERSTELLAR SPACE: THE MUSIC OF JOHN
 COLTRANE *[ SEATTLE SHOW ADDED! ]*
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 14:18:16 PST
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Sorry for the kind of Off Topic post, but this is a show not to be missed if 
you are in the Seattle area, and maybe an excuse to visit.


Subject:	NELS CLINE & GREGG BENDIAN - INTERSTELLAR SPACE: THE MUSIC
OF JOHN COLTRANE  *[ SEATTLE SHOW ADDED! ]*

******** FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE ********
A VERY SPECIAL CONCERT IS ON THE WAY:
	(right around the corner!)
======================================
	NELS CLINE / GREGG BENDIAN - INTERSTELLAR SPACE REVISITED:
	THE MUSIC OF JOHN COLTRANE
======================================
APPEARING FEBRUARY 26th at THE RAINBOW
*** With Special Guests: PROJECT W ***
======================================
COST: $7 DOS (no advance tickets)
TIME: 9:30pm sharp - PROJECT W opens the show)
==============================================
FROM:	THE RAINBOW, 722 NE 45th St. (in Seattle's U-District)
(206) 634-1761 / BOOKING:	Pete @ 206-706-9087
==============================================
MEDIA CONTACT: Jim @ 206-322-1783 FOR MORE INFO/ETC
==============================================

The Rainbow is pleased to welcome two incredibly talented & versatile
musicians to our fine city:
Electric guitarist *NELS CLINE* (of GERALDINE
FIBBERS, SCARNELLA, BANYAN, MIKE WATT, THURSTON MOORE, and NELS CLINE TRIO
fame, among others)
*and* drummer *GREGG BENDIAN* (of SIGN OF FOUR - w/PAT METHENY, INTERZONE,
TRIO PIANISSIMO, CECIL TAYLOR, DEREK BAILEY, and PETER BROTZMANN fame, etc.)

	for what promises to be a truly ~SPECIAL~ night of music.
Nels & Greg are touring behind their *HIGHLY ACCLAIMED* album "Interstellar
Space Revisited: The Music of John Coltrane" (Atavistic Records -
http://www.atavistic.com <http://www.atavistic.com> )
*	which recently made WIRE (UK) Magazine's TOP TEN JAZZ CD's OF 1999
LIST *and* is praised by none other than RASHIED ALI HIMSELF in a four-page
cover-story spread currently found in the February issue of JAZZIZ Magazine!


This performance will, like their above-mentioned live CD, find them
COVERING John Coltrane & Rashied Ali's CLASSIC duo album "Interstellar
Space" (rec. in 1967, just before John's death) in its ENTIRETY. They'll
offer up their own rendition, an HOMAGE if you will, of this landmark
session.  (along with some other choice late-era Coltrane selections!)
Nels Cline, who's improvisational imagination is nothing but amazing, has
worked with a variety of rock and jazz musicians - including Mike Watt of
Firehose/Minutemen fame, as noted above. Bendian has pounded the skins with
such legendary jazz artists as Cecil Taylor, arguably the greatest "free"
piano player of all time. The two of them use the songs from Coltrane's
album as springboards to new - and totally innovative, musical worlds.
Whether you choose to call their creations free jazz, space
music, avant-garde exploration, experimental improvisation,
*	or what have you -
one thing's for SURE: THIS IS PASSIONATE *SOUL* MUSIC.
= For more on Nels Cline, there are a couple of interesting
articles linked up via his "unofficial" homepage:
http://people.we.mediaone.net/dbeihoff/NCAS/index.html
<http://people.we.mediaone.net/dbeihoff/NCAS/index.html>
Openers PROJECT W are a fiery trio featuring saxophonist
WALLY SHOUP alongside cellist BRENT ARNOLD & drummer GREG
CAMPBELL. More on this great band of local improvisers
can be found via:  http://www.speakeasy.org/wshoup/
<http://www.speakeasy.org/wshoup/>
They are led by Wally, a longtime Seattle-based and world renowned saxophone
adventurer, who has also recorded with Sonic Youth's Thurston Moore, as a
matter of fact (as Nels Cline once did). In the fall of 1999, Wally toured
with Thurston Moore & the great Philadelphia-based percussionist Toshi
Makihara. Their 9/20/99 Boston show was recorded and will be released on the
Sublingual Label this Spring. Also out is a limited edition LP recording of
PROJECT W's excellent opening performance for SONIC YOUTH at Seattle's Moore
Theatre in 1998 - on Shrat Field Recordings.  No doubt highly impressed by
Wally's wide-open abilities, Thurston sought him out for a collaboration,
and more will most probably follow. In the meantime, remember that:
++++ A SHOW LIKE THIS DOESN'T COME AROUND VERY OFTEN!! ++++


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 17:36:10 EST
Subject: Re: FW: NELS CLINE & GREGG BENDIAN - INTERSTELLAR SPACE: THE MUSIC
	OF JOHN COLTRANE *[ SEATTLE SHOW ADDED! ]*
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    Will there be a live cd from the Nels Cline shows?
    
                                            Sidlo

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  9 20:59:45 2000
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From: PMimlitsch@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 20:51:40 EST
Subject: Princeton Loops
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Fri. Feb. 11th. 7:30-9:30pm. (w/ J.Janetta-perc.) "Borders Books/ Music", 
Princeton, N.J. (609) 514-0040.
<<http://member.aol.com/pmimlitsch/>>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb  9 21:07:02 2000
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From: "Larry Tremblay" <ltct@concentric.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Cc: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: looper-friendly MIDI sequencer?
Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 21:04:22 -0500
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Save your braincells. I think you're looking for somehing like
the DJRND2 by Emmanuel Perille. It might not be everything you
want, but what is?

There's info on the Looper's Delight site at:
http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/DJRND2/DJRND2.html

- Larry

>among the features would be the ability to visually arrange the loop
>fragments as they are entered, and to transition between scenes gradually--
>fade this snip in over n bars, for example.. with a performance-oriented
>user interface...
>
>backwards--
>the idea extends the basic delay line to a more acid-like concept where you
>have fragments which together form the piece.. the fragments all loop, are
>all synced together and with midiclock. fragments could initially be tapped
>in.
>
>one thing id like to work on is having switching between multiple outputs--
>so that you could potentially build sections of the piece in your own
>private headphone mix and then fade them in to a mainmix, or blast them
in..
>multiple synced musicians working together could coordinate pieces and work
>on different substructures within the soundspace simultaneously.
>
>
>of course, its just a lofty dream. but manifestation is inevitable when we
>see the illusion of rhythm.
>
>
>btw if anyone is interested in collaborating, pls let me know. im doing a
>little work for David Z. of Cycling74 and trying to hook into CNMAT in
>Berkeley so that the resource pool builds.. The MAXMSP people had this idea
>awhile ago and toyed with it.
>
>in lakech
>-jan
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: eric <eobertha@inreach.com>
>To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>Date: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 9:13 PM
>Subject: looper-friendly MIDI sequencer?
>
>
>>howdy.
>>I use MOTU's Performer (not DP) - a not-so-aptly-named piece of software
>>IMHO.  Interested in actually performing with malleable MIDI situations,
>>I have found that a simple act such as vamping on a particular measure
>>of a sequence and then continuing on to an another vamp on down the line
>>a bit is possible (with Perf.) but akward.  The memory loop points are
>>designed (as is the Polar function in DP) more for creating than
>>performing.  So I am frustrated.
>>
>>Here is an example of a software user interface that would turn me on:
>>little whirlpools dot the screen - representing loops; lines are drawn
>>between many of the spirals - representing transitions.  The idea is
>>simple:  click a spiral and you loop, click a line between that spiral
>>and any other and at the next loop end (like a drum machine (a feature
>>sorely lacking in Performer)) the music follows a precomposed transition
>>to another loop pool.  The system could work for a single song or an
>>entire reperetoire.
>>
>>Has anyone seen or heard anything about anything even remotely like
>>this?
>>Is this doable in MAX?  Anyone interested in designing some software?
>>
>>carry on,
>>eric o.
>>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 10 01:09:05 2000
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Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 22:00:36 -0800 (PST)
From: John Tidwell <wedgehed@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Alto Music offering EDP discounts to LD members.
To: Loopers Delight <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
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Just for comparison's sake.....

Three years ago, the Guitar Center in Atlanta sold me
an EDP WITHOUT a foot controller for $800. Because all
of the other major mail-order places had them on
back order, I went for it. While I was somewhat pained
to later learn what some of you guys paid for your
EDPs, I can assure you that I've never felt ripped
off.
I simply paid a premium to acquire a great device that
was in short supply.

I'm looking forward to a 2nd EDP at the Alto price!

John


--- Jonathan El-Bizri <jbiz@linkexchange.com> wrote:
> Bash! Bash! I'm sorry, but that's a ridiculous
> price.
> 
 

=====
John Tidwell



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 10 04:44:27 2000
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Message-ID: <015001bf73a8$4b1aa2c0$5500a8c0@traceelliot.com>
From: "Trace Elliot Ltd" <info@trace-elliot.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
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Subject: Re: Alto Music offering EDP discounts to LD members.
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:22:00 -0000
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That actually translates into AUS$5000. You have to pay a premium for having
all the sun,
Andy, in the rain, at Trace Elliot.

Trace Elliot Contact Information
*************************************
Trace Elliot (UK) Ltd
Blackwater Trading Estate
The Causeway
Maldon
Essex
United Kingdom
CM9 4GG

Tel: +44 (0)1621 851851
Fax: +44 (0)1621 851932
----- Original Message -----
From: b.knox <b.knox@nloastpraombe.edu.au>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: Alto Music offering EDP discounts to LD members.


> "G716 - Greg S." wrote:
> >
> >
> > 2) List price is $1150.
> >
>
> ouch ... that should translate into AUS$2500 - $3000 ... again i say
> ouch. ummmm... will they be shipping to Australia? :) i guess i don't
> really need a car .. lol.
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 10 06:19:55 2000
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Subject: new tune
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Hi folks, i just put up a new tune, you can get it
at,
http://members.xoom.com/echo17/tbl.html  for Real
Audio or,
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Balcony/3906/
for the mp3.
its called Schizosphere.
looped of course,
jd


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 10 07:47:48 2000
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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 13:27:59 +0000
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"I'm hoping someday to find some other synths at basement prices.  I
was keeping an eye on the Ensoniq Fizmo because it was being
discontinued
and it was as cheap as $200-400 at local stores."

What where where WHEEEEERRREEEEEEEE?????????

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 10 08:27:04 2000
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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 08:20:54 EST
Subject: Re: fizmo
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I was thinking of buying one until I read all the negative reviews at sonic 
state.

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 10 09:40:17 2000
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Message-ID: <7BAC931E644ED211A90C00805F65CB640282DE90@georgia.exchange.indiana.edu>
From: "Taaffe, Denis G" <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Princeton Loops-so does Bloomington
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:21:11 -0500
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Hey neat,

	I play at live solo electric guitar show w/loops there as well:

Fri. feb 11th 8:00-10:00pm "Borders Books/ Music" Bloomington, In (don't
know phone number)

For those flying in, hotel reservations has been prepared.....haha...not

Thanks
Denis

Denis Taaffe
denis_aliengtr@geocities.com
http://www.dtguitar.com


--


Fri. Feb. 11th. 7:30-9:30pm. (w/ J.Janetta-perc.) "Borders Books/ Music", 
Princeton, N.J. (609) 514-0040.
<<http://member.aol.com/pmimlitsch/>>

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From: "Javier Miranda V." <gnominus@earthling.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Alto Music offering EDP discounts to LD members.
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:48:39 -0800
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All the sun and legal pros...  Oops, sorry, no looping content...

  | -----Original Message-----
  | From: Trace Elliot Ltd [mailto:info@trace-elliot.com]
  | Sent: Thursday 10 February 2000 1:22 AM
  | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
  | Subject: Re: Alto Music offering EDP discounts to LD members.
  | 
  | 
  | That actually translates into AUS$5000. You have to pay a 
  | premium for having
  | all the sun,
  | Andy, in the rain, at Trace Elliot...

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unsubscribe
----- Original Message -----
From: Taaffe, Denis G <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 2:21 PM
Subject: RE: Princeton Loops-so does Bloomington


> Hey neat,
>
> I play at live solo electric guitar show w/loops there as well:
>
> Fri. feb 11th 8:00-10:00pm "Borders Books/ Music" Bloomington, In (don't
> know phone number)
>
> For those flying in, hotel reservations has been prepared.....haha...not
>
> Thanks
> Denis
>
> Denis Taaffe
> denis_aliengtr@geocities.com
> http://www.dtguitar.com
>
>
> --
>
>
> Fri. Feb. 11th. 7:30-9:30pm. (w/ J.Janetta-perc.) "Borders Books/ Music",
> Princeton, N.J. (609) 514-0040.
> <<http://member.aol.com/pmimlitsch/>>
>
>

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From: Nemoguitt@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 11:14:43 EST
Subject: (CT) PROJECT .............  "FOUND"
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i got mine and nothing seems the same.........well worth checking out, and 
the price is right.........michael


mattdavignon@hotmail.com  wrote:

<<You can download the entire (or just some - your choice) contents of the CD 
at
http://www.music.columbia.edu/~cecenter/mhl21/ct/foundsound.html

or just get there the easy way by going to

www.loopxchange.com

You can also order the disc for the unheard-of low price of $5 per disc. 
(It's a full length disc if you were wondering). Contact me via e-mail if 
you want one.>>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 10 11:53:27 2000
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To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: fizmo
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:48:41 -0800
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Yeah, where?  I want one too.

  | -----Original Message-----
  | From: Olivier Malhomme [mailto:malhomme@vete.ucl.ac.be]
  | Sent: Thursday 10 February 2000 5:28 AM
  | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
  | Subject: Re: fizmo
  | 
  | 
  | "I'm hoping someday to find some other synths at basement prices.  I
  | was keeping an eye on the Ensoniq Fizmo because it was being
  | discontinued
  | and it was as cheap as $200-400 at local stores."
  | 
  | What where where WHEEEEERRREEEEEEEE?????????
  | 
  | 

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 10 12:15:20 2000
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From: "Javier Miranda V." <gnominus@earthling.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: fizmo
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:48:42 -0800
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Negative reviews schmooze-a-hoola.  There's always somebody who is pissed
when the rain stops.  If you dig it that should be enough.

  | -----Original Message-----
  | From: Echophazer@aol.com [mailto:Echophazer@aol.com]
  | Sent: Thursday 10 February 2000 5:21 AM
  | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
  | Subject: Re: fizmo
  |
  |
  | I was thinking of buying one until I read all the negative
  | reviews at sonic
  | state.
  |
  |

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 10 12:54:38 2000
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From: "Liebig, Steuart A." <LiebigSA@Maritz.com>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: shameless self-promotion, southern california style
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two gigs with improvised loopage and mayhem:

stinson/liebig/bendian trio

g.e. stinson: guitars, applied tools, loopage
steuart liebig: basses, stuff, loopage
gregg bendian: drums/percussion

one set
13 september 2000
8:00 p.m.
$?.?? (sorry)
soho
1221 state st.
santa barbara, ca, usa
805.962.7776, 805.899.2176





BONE STRUCTURE
g.e. Stinson - guitars, loopage
gregg bendian - drums,
steuart liebig - bass, loopage
jeff gauthier - violins, loopage

MICHAEL VLATKOVICH TRIO
michael vlatkovitch - trombone,
chris garcia - drums,
bruce fowler - trombone

                                       
Inner Ear Series
CONJUCTIVE POINTS

3631 Hayden Avenue
(between National and Higuera Streets)
Culver City, CA, usa
Free Parking available in the Culver City Warner Drive Lot

20 september 2000
Concerts begin at 8:00 PM
$10.00 at the door
CALL (310)-301-1611 for additional info

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 10 13:55:53 2000
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From: "future perfect" <artmusic@gte.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Princeton Loops-so does Bloomington AND Tampa
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 13:04:50 -0500
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 While we are doing this, I am playing Borders in Tampa, FL this Friday with
my duo as well. I have also played a lot of Borders up the Eastern US-
always has been a good place to play, and we seem to do well with CD sales
too. We have played the one in Princeton (near my hometown in NJ) and it was
a blast.
And, for those with a good modem and/or a lot of time to download (an edit
will be available soon):
http://members.theglobe.com/TheMincer/Nightstars.mp3 (MP3 file 6.7MB)

Dave Eichenberger- guitars/loops/devices
http://home1.gte.net/artmusic/dave

'Future Perfect' - art music
http://home1.gte.net/artmusic/




> Hey neat,
>
> 	I play at live solo electric guitar show w/loops there as well:
>
> Fri. feb 11th 8:00-10:00pm "Borders Books/ Music" Bloomington, In (don't
> know phone number)
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 10 14:21:36 2000
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From: "Taaffe, Denis G" <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: shameless self-promotion, southern california style
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 13:43:52 -0500
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Hey that is quite a few gigs being announced on this list. It would be cool
to have a portion of these gigs taped and made available as mp3's no? Maybe
just a 2-3 minutes snip.Just a thought.

 
Denis

Denis Taaffe
denis_aliengtr@geocities.com
http://www.dtguitar.com


-
stinson/liebig/bendian trio

g.e. stinson: guitars, applied tools, loopage
steuart liebig: basses, stuff, loopage
gregg bendian: drums/percussion

one set
13 september 2000
8:00 p.m.

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 10 14:51:48 2000
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From: "Liebig, Steuart A." <LiebigSA@Maritz.com>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: shameless self-promotion, southern california style
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:17:16 -0500
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okay, i plead idiocy . . . 


i copied the thing and didn't check the thing too carefully . . .

FEBRUARY not september. (i don't really expect people to be markign their
calanders that far into the future.)


geez, what a dork!

sorry . . . 

stig


make all of that:


two gigs with improvised loopage and mayhem:

stinson/liebig/bendian trio

g.e. stinson: guitars, applied tools, loopage
steuart liebig: basses, stuff, loopage
gregg bendian: drums/percussion

one set
13 february 2000
8:00 p.m.
$?.?? (sorry)
soho
1221 state st.
santa barbara, ca, usa
805.962.7776, 805.899.2176





BONE STRUCTURE
g.e. Stinson - guitars, loopage
gregg bendian - drums,
steuart liebig - bass, loopage
jeff gauthier - violins, loopage

MICHAEL VLATKOVICH TRIO
michael vlatkovitch - trombone,
chris garcia - drums,
bruce fowler - trombone

                                       
Inner Ear Series
CONJUCTIVE POINTS

3631 Hayden Avenue
(between National and Higuera Streets)
Culver City, CA, usa
Free Parking available in the Culver City Warner Drive Lot

20 february 2000
Concerts begin at 8:00 PM
$10.00 at the door
CALL (310)-301-1611 for additional info

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 10 22:49:24 2000
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From: Jhsidlo@aol.com
Message-ID: <49.11600ac.25d4d4d6@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:58:30 EST
Subject: Looping on radio
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    Short notice. I'll be looping tonight at 10:00pm on KSYM. San Antonio 
College. For 30 minutes?
                                James H. Sidlo

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 11 00:49:29 2000
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Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:34:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Haitch Cee <hcee@vcn.bc.ca>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: radio show tonight
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heya folks . loopi stuff going on on plutonian nights tonight . press
release / shoutcast info etc available at:

http://sine.ranch.org/pluto

show starts at 1am (PST) and goes until dawn

cheers =)
rich

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
haitch c soundcraft   /   sinesite:  http://sine.ranch.org
s i n u s o i d a l   \   email:            sine@ranch.org
records / bc.canada   /   artists. mp3s. realaudio. forums.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
plutonian nights radio show -+- http://sine.ranch.org/pluto

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 11 05:44:41 2000
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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 11:27:56 +0100
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Subject: OT: mingus, coltrane, vicious, and buddha having lunch ...
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funny little article for those of you into these guys ...

http://www.furious.com/perfect/mingusplay.html

sorry 4 the disturbance ...

rob

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 11 06:26:19 2000
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Message-ID: <02ce01bf747f$b073a220$5500a8c0@traceelliot.com>
From: "Trace Elliot Ltd" <info@trace-elliot.com>
To: <baumhaus@earthlink.net>, <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
References: <s8a13fe7.096@svg.com> <38A1DC0B.D9A4240B@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: price wars
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 11:03:52 -0000
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All this is good publicity. In fact the price has just doubled.
Trace Elliot Contact Information
*************************************
Trace Elliot (UK) Ltd
Blackwater Trading Estate
The Causeway
Maldon
Essex
United Kingdom
CM9 4GG

Tel: +44 (0)1621 851851
Fax: +44 (0)1621 851932
----- Original Message ----- 
From: lance glover <baumhaus@earthlink.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: price wars


> i agree w/ miko.
> 
> i mean, is it disputed that there's anything remotely in this price range
> that does the kinds of things this box does (or will do)? i can't wait
> for the next wave of nickel & dime arguments once these units hit the
> stores..:-)
> 
> lance g.
> 
> 
> Mike Biffle wrote:
> 
> > Hey everyone... we've also just heard they're going for ~$660 at Alto.
> > This is about $100 more than we paid in the previous Alto deal. More
> > expensive? Yes... Available and in a similar ballpark? YES! They will
> > probalby cost more at other stores, but thems the breaks gang... This
> > bitching about $1100 is not doing much for me...
> >
> > -m
> >
> > >>> "Jonathan El-Bizri" <jbiz@linkexchange.com> 02/09 9:50 AM >>>
> > So what? Just because one insane Kurzweil slaseperson was prepared to
> > pay
> > $3,000 becuase he though he would never see one built again doesn't
> > mean
> > that you are going to sell many at $1100. The product will die and
> > then they
> > will not be made again.
> >
> > bIz
> >   -----Original Message-----
> >   From: Trace Elliot Ltd [mailto:info@trace-elliot.com]
> >   Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 2:24 AM
> >   To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> >   Subject:
> >
> >   It's a small price to pay for such an excellent product. One was
> > sold
> > secondhand via NET auction for $3000.
> >   I can assure everyone that we are making the slimmest of margins on
> > the
> > EDP. Ah!, the joys of manufacturing.
> >   Andy
> >
> >   Trace Elliot Contact Information
> >   *************************************
> >   Trace Elliot (UK) Ltd
> >   Blackwater Trading Estate
> >   The Causeway
> >   Maldon
> >   Essex
> >   United Kingdom
> >   CM9 4GG
> >
> >   Tel: +44 (0)1621 851851
> >   Fax: +44 (0)1621 851932
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 11 07:06:56 2000
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Message-ID: <20000211120149.22692.qmail@web124.yahoomail.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 04:01:49 -0800 (PST)
From: John Tidwell <wedgehed@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: price wars
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Since you guys are listening, can you tell us how much
memory will come installed on the EDP?

The "Full Monty" I hope!

John

PS- Will you offer discounts to anyone who can recite
dialogue from "The Young Ones" or "Fawlty Towers"?


--- Trace Elliot Ltd <info@trace-elliot.com> wrote:
> All this is good publicity. In fact the price has
> just doubled.
> Trace Elliot Contact Information
> *************************************
> Trace Elliot (UK) Ltd
> Blackwater Trading Estate
> The Causeway
> Maldon
> Essex
> United Kingdom
> CM9 4GG
 

=====
John Tidwell



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com

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I heard 50 seconds

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 11 10:41:04 2000
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hey stig are you on the ge stinson almbum "vapor"? 
this just got a great review in the wire!

have a great gig - when are you guys coming to europe?

l8ter,
rob


Liebig, Steuart A. schrieb:
> 
> two gigs with improvised loopage and mayhem:
> 
> stinson/liebig/bendian trio
> 
> g.e. stinson: guitars, applied tools, loopage
> steuart liebig: basses, stuff, loopage
> gregg bendian: drums/percussion
> 
> one set
> 13 september 2000
> 8:00 p.m.
> $?.?? (sorry)
> soho
> 1221 state st.
> santa barbara, ca, usa
> 805.962.7776, 805.899.2176
> 
> BONE STRUCTURE
> g.e. Stinson - guitars, loopage
> gregg bendian - drums,
> steuart liebig - bass, loopage
> jeff gauthier - violins, loopage
> 
> MICHAEL VLATKOVICH TRIO
> michael vlatkovitch - trombone,
> chris garcia - drums,
> bruce fowler - trombone
> 
> 
> Inner Ear Series
> CONJUCTIVE POINTS
> 
> 3631 Hayden Avenue
> (between National and Higuera Streets)
> Culver City, CA, usa
> Free Parking available in the Culver City Warner Drive Lot
> 
> 20 september 2000
> Concerts begin at 8:00 PM
> $10.00 at the door
> CALL (310)-301-1611 for additional info


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 11 10:55:58 2000
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That's not funny even as a joke.

  | -----Original Message-----
  | From: Trace Elliot Ltd [mailto:info@trace-elliot.com]
  | Sent: Friday 11 February 2000 3:04 AM
  | To: baumhaus@earthlink.net; Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
  | Subject: Re: price wars
  | 
  | 
  | All this is good publicity. In fact the price has just doubled.

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 11 11:25:44 2000
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From: "Taaffe, Denis G" <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
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Subject: RE: Looping on radio
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:55:04 -0500
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Howdy,

	I do a show tonight as well at borders for 2 hours. I played a gig
last week for 2 1/2 hours. I played nonstop without a break and was
exhausted at the end,my hand ached that night a little haha. SO 30 minutes
nonstop is decent. Tonight I plan to take a break after an hour.2 hours is
kind of long I find.will you be looping guitar stuff?

Thanks
Denis

Denis Taaffe
denis_aliengtr@geocities.com
http://www.dtguitar.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Jhsidlo@aol.com [mailto:Jhsidlo@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 9:59 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Looping on radio


    Short notice. I'll be looping tonight at 10:00pm on KSYM. San Antonio 
College. For 30 minutes?
                                James H. Sidlo

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 11 11:32:22 2000
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Now that really is how the music biz works....haha

 
Denis


-
Subject: Re: price wars


All this is good publicity. In fact the price has just doubled.
Trace Elliot Contact Information
*

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 11 12:32:04 2000
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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:25:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Haitch Cee <hcee@vcn.bc.ca>
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Subject: plutonian nights apologies to shoutcast users
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heya all

seems that some of you out-of-FM-range folks had problems connecting
with the zilTV shoutcast rebroadcast last night . apologies for that.
we'll get it resolved for next weeks show . too bad though, you
missed me disolving into a sleepdep void 4 hours into my set . you
also missed me pounding rhythms out on my gut by request from a
caller . interesting night all-round . thanks go to ghoulash for
bailing me out with the broad use of lude northern humour and instant
coffee =P

cheers
rich

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
haitch c soundcraft   /   sinesite:  http://sine.ranch.org
s i n u s o i d a l   \   email:            sine@ranch.org
records / bc.canada   /   artists. mp3s. realaudio. forums.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
plutonian nights radio show -+- http://sine.ranch.org/pluto

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 11 13:27:20 2000
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any one use the Zoom GFX 8 forlooping?? what's the call on that unit??

thanx,

andre'

LOOPING next friday in NYC..at theKNit (see below)!!
NEXT GIG: Jfk's Lsd Ufo .......Fri FEB 18- 8pm - Knitting Factory -
Knitactive Soundstage
74 Leonard St - NYC - 212-219-3006- http://www.knittingfactory.com-
webcast!!??

ZAPPA Tribute--Project Object with IKE WILLIS
March /April 2000 tourdates at  http://www.projectobject.com

*NEW* CD out - Alien Concepts by Jfk's Lsd Ufo	http://www.ufomusic.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 11 13:39:16 2000
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 Tonight, the duo I am in will be playing at Borders as well. Plenty of
looping, and we always record the shows to MiniDisc so we can post clips of
the stuff we like. Alos, for those who play at Borders now and then- we
always ask play in the back of the store in the 'art book' section- there
are usually the biggest couches and chairs there, and it is far away from
the noise of the cafe. The clip I mentioned yesterday (copied below) was
recorded at Borders last month.

Dave Eichenberger- guitars/loops/devices
http://home1.gte.net/artmusic/dave

****(And, for those with a good modem and/or a lot of time to download (an
edit
will be available soon):
http://members.theglobe.com/TheMincer/Nightstars.mp3 (MP3 file 6.7MB)*****





> Howdy,
>
> 	I do a show tonight as well at borders for 2 hours. I played a gig
> last week for 2 1/2 hours. I played nonstop without a break and was
> exhausted at the end,my hand ached that night a little haha. SO 30 minutes
> nonstop is decent. Tonight I plan to take a break after an hour.2 hours is
> kind of long I find.will you be looping guitar stuff?
>
> Thanks
> Denis

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 11 15:36:21 2000
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From: Echopark99@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:56:03 EST
Subject: Re: RE: shameless self-promotion, southern california style
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Hey STig!

I can't believe I'll ever get to see you guys play!   Do you realize that 
I've been open to the idea of seeing you play here locally for almost a year 
and a half?!?!  I'm tempted to drive up to SB, but I've been doing way too 
much driving lately and I'd probably be late.  And on the 20th I'm gigging 
with the modern dance chicks.  Schedules...    I think I need to do one or 
two less things in life. It seems as if every two hours I'm supposed to be 
somewhere I'm not.  I did manage to catch Nels quite by accident down at the 
Smell a coupla weeks back - acoustic trio!

I saw Dane the other night, at the academy nominating for sound FX oscars. He 
did some great stuff in the Matrix. It's kind of a fun night where we review 
10-minute clips of the most sound intensive stuff of the year. My boss is up 
for The Green Mile, on which I did crazy electrocution recordings, etc.

How was London?  Find any good blowing/ripping music?

eric p

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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 15:56:18 EST
Subject: SSSorry! That was for STIG only!
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Sorry Folks, that was for Stig, not everybody!

eric p

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I can't believe I'll ever get to see you guys play!   Do you realize that 
I've been open to the idea of seeing you play here locally for almost a year

and a half?!?!  I'm tempted to drive up to SB, but I've been doing way too 
much driving lately and I'd probably be late.  And on the 20th I'm gigging 
with the modern dance chicks.  Schedules...   

** wowee. well sometime there will be a chance. dance thing sounds fun.

 I think I need to do one or 
two less things in life. It seems as if every two hours I'm supposed to be 
somewhere I'm not. 

** naw, do it all . . . and more.

 I did manage to catch Nels quite by accident down at the 
Smell a coupla weeks back - acoustic trio!

** who was in that?

I saw Dane the other night, at the academy nominating for sound FX oscars.
He 
did some great stuff in the Matrix. It's kind of a fun night where we review

10-minute clips of the most sound intensive stuff of the year. My boss is up

for The Green Mile, on which I did crazy electrocution recordings, etc.

** great. i should really say hi to him at some point soon.

How was London?  Find any good blowing/ripping music?

** going end of march.

s

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 11 16:17:09 2000
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From: "Liebig, Steuart A." <LiebigSA@Maritz.com>
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Subject: RE: RE: shameless self-promotion, southern california style
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 16:09:52 -0500
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sorry . . . thought this was private (color me a dope!)

s

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The local guitar center/mars stores were blowing them out for around
$400, I heard at least one report of a floor demo model selling for
$200.  This is the american midwest (Minnesota).  The Musicians'
Friend catalog had it for $400 as well.  Used?  I don't know.

I don't care if it had bad reviews, I was making some of the coolest
hallucinogenic textures ever, right in the store and I wasn't even
trying.

They probably thought I was sick.

Live electric guitar and loops in a borders?  There is hope for me
yet.  I wanna do that.

I gotta do some gigs or I'll just sit in my basement forever.

Speaking of which, Rev 1 of "Loop 45", my 45 minute loop suite is
pretty much done, but I have another long form piece I could make
it morph into making it LOOP80.  That would be a good thing, 80 
minutes of looped insanity.

Don't get me started!



From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 11 18:20:27 2000
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From: Todd Madson <crash@waste.org>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: WHOA!?!?!?
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Modern Dance Chicks?!?!?!?  Wow!  Do they loop?

Just kidding.

Going on a sojourn to Texas real soon now, San Antonio and then 
Port Aransas - any looping to speak of?

-Todd



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Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com wrote:

> Subject:
>
> Loopers-Delight-d Digest                                Volume 00 : Issue 37
>
> Today's Topics:
>   Re: Alto Music offering EDP discount  [ "Trace Elliot Ltd" <info@trace-elli ]
>   new tune                              [ Jeff Duke <jmar@bellsouth.net> ]
>   Re: fizmo                             [ Olivier Malhomme <malhomme@vete.ucl ]
>   Re: fizmo                             [ Echophazer@aol.com ]
>   RE: Princeton Loops-so does Blooming  [ "Taaffe, Denis G" <dtaaffe@indiana. ]
>   RE: Alto Music offering EDP discount  [ "Javier Miranda V." <gnominus@earth ]
>   unsubscribe                           [ "David Young" <Massive.Arp@nationwi ]
>   (CT) PROJECT ............. "FOUND"    [ Nemoguitt@aol.com ]
>   RE: fizmo                             [ "Javier Miranda V." <gnominus@earth ]
>   RE: fizmo                             [ "Javier Miranda V." <gnominus@earth ]
>   shameless self-promotion, southern c  [ "Liebig, Steuart A." <LiebigSA@Mari ]
>   RE: Princeton Loops-so does Blooming  [ "future perfect" <artmusic@gte.net> ]
>   RE: shameless self-promotion, southe  [ "Taaffe, Denis G" <dtaaffe@indiana. ]
>   RE: shameless self-promotion, southe  [ "Liebig, Steuart A." <LiebigSA@Mari ]
>   Looping on radio                      [ Jhsidlo@aol.com ]
>   radio show tonight                    [ Haitch Cee <hcee@vcn.bc.ca> ]
>   OT: mingus, coltrane, vicious, and b  [ Cummings <r_t_cummings@compuserve.c ]
>   Re: price wars                        [ "Trace Elliot Ltd" <info@trace-elli ]
>   Re: price wars                        [ John Tidwell <wedgehed@yahoo.com> ]
>   Re: price wars                        [ Madoud@aol.com ]
>   Re: shameless self-promotion, southe  [ Cummings <r_t_cummings@compuserve.c ]
>   RE: price wars                        [ "Javier Miranda V." <gnominus@earth ]
>   RE: Looping on radio                  [ "Taaffe, Denis G" <dtaaffe@indiana. ]
>   RE: price wars                        [ "Taaffe, Denis G" <dtaaffe@indiana. ]
>   plutonian nights apologies to shoutc  [ Haitch Cee <hcee@vcn.bc.ca> ]
>   Re: GFX8                              [ andre <andre@monmouth.com> ]
>   RE: Looping on radio                  [ "future perfect" <artmusic@gte.net> ]
>   Re: RE: shameless self-promotion, so  [ Echopark99@aol.com ]
>   SSSorry! That was for STIG only!      [ Echopark99@aol.com ]
>   RE: RE: shameless self-promotion, so  [ "Liebig, Steuart A." <LiebigSA@Mari ]
>
> Administrivia:
> Looper's Delight
> ****************
>
> Please send posts to:
>
> Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>
> Don't send them to the digest!
>
> To subscribe/unsubscribe to the Loopers-Delight digest version, send email
> with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no
> signature files, to:
>
> Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com
>
> To subscribe/unsubscribe to the real Loopers-Delight list, send email
> with "subscribe" (or "unsubscribe") in both the subject and the body, with no
> signature files, to:
>
> Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com
>
> Check the web page for archives and lots of other goodies!
>
> http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
>
> Your humble list maintainer,
>
> Kim Flint
> kflint@annihilist.com
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: Alto Music offering EDP discounts to LD members.
> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:22:00 -0000
> From: "Trace Elliot Ltd" <info@trace-elliot.com>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>
> That actually translates into AUS$5000. You have to pay a premium for having
> all the sun,
> Andy, in the rain, at Trace Elliot.
>
> Trace Elliot Contact Information
> *************************************
> Trace Elliot (UK) Ltd
> Blackwater Trading Estate
> The Causeway
> Maldon
> Essex
> United Kingdom
> CM9 4GG
>
> Tel: +44 (0)1621 851851
> Fax: +44 (0)1621 851932
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: b.knox <b.knox@nloastpraombe.edu.au>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 12:15 PM
> Subject: Re: Alto Music offering EDP discounts to LD members.
>
> > "G716 - Greg S." wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > 2) List price is $1150.
> > >
> >
> > ouch ... that should translate into AUS$2500 - $3000 ... again i say
> > ouch. ummmm... will they be shipping to Australia? :) i guess i don't
> > really need a car .. lol.
> >
> >
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: new tune
> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 06:07:01 -0500
> From: Jeff Duke <jmar@bellsouth.net>
> To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>
> Hi folks, i just put up a new tune, you can get it
> at,
> http://members.xoom.com/echo17/tbl.html  for Real
> Audio or,
> http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Balcony/3906/
> for the mp3.
> its called Schizosphere.
> looped of course,
> jd
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: fizmo
> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 13:27:59 +0000
> From: Olivier Malhomme <malhomme@vete.ucl.ac.be>
> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>
> "I'm hoping someday to find some other synths at basement prices.  I
> was keeping an eye on the Ensoniq Fizmo because it was being
> discontinued
> and it was as cheap as $200-400 at local stores."
>
> What where where WHEEEEERRREEEEEEEE?????????
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: fizmo
> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 08:20:54 EST
> From: Echophazer@aol.com
> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>
> I was thinking of buying one until I read all the negative reviews at sonic
> state.
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: RE: Princeton Loops-so does Bloomington
> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 09:21:11 -0500
> From: "Taaffe, Denis G" <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
> To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>
> Hey neat,
>
>         I play at live solo electric guitar show w/loops there as well:
>
> Fri. feb 11th 8:00-10:00pm "Borders Books/ Music" Bloomington, In (don't
> know phone number)
>
> For those flying in, hotel reservations has been prepared.....haha...not
>
> Thanks
> Denis
>
> Denis Taaffe
> denis_aliengtr@geocities.com
> http://www.dtguitar.com
>
> --
>
> Fri. Feb. 11th. 7:30-9:30pm. (w/ J.Janetta-perc.) "Borders Books/ Music",
> Princeton, N.J. (609) 514-0040.
> <<http://member.aol.com/pmimlitsch/>>
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: RE: Alto Music offering EDP discounts to LD members.
> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:48:39 -0800
> From: "Javier Miranda V." <gnominus@earthling.net>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>
> All the sun and legal pros...  Oops, sorry, no looping content...
>
>   | -----Original Message-----
>   | From: Trace Elliot Ltd [mailto:info@trace-elliot.com]
>   | Sent: Thursday 10 February 2000 1:22 AM
>   | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>   | Subject: Re: Alto Music offering EDP discounts to LD members.
>   |
>   |
>   | That actually translates into AUS$5000. You have to pay a
>   | premium for having
>   | all the sun,
>   | Andy, in the rain, at Trace Elliot...
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: unsubscribe
> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 16:15:58 -0000
> From: "David Young" <Massive.Arp@nationwideisp.net>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>
> unsubscribe
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Taaffe, Denis G <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 2:21 PM
> Subject: RE: Princeton Loops-so does Bloomington
>
> > Hey neat,
> >
> > I play at live solo electric guitar show w/loops there as well:
> >
> > Fri. feb 11th 8:00-10:00pm "Borders Books/ Music" Bloomington, In (don't
> > know phone number)
> >
> > For those flying in, hotel reservations has been prepared.....haha...not
> >
> > Thanks
> > Denis
> >
> > Denis Taaffe
> > denis_aliengtr@geocities.com
> > http://www.dtguitar.com
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > Fri. Feb. 11th. 7:30-9:30pm. (w/ J.Janetta-perc.) "Borders Books/ Music",
> > Princeton, N.J. (609) 514-0040.
> > <<http://member.aol.com/pmimlitsch/>>
> >
> >
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: (CT) PROJECT ............. "FOUND"
> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 11:14:43 EST
> From: Nemoguitt@aol.com
> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>
> i got mine and nothing seems the same.........well worth checking out, and
> the price is right.........michael
>
> mattdavignon@hotmail.com  wrote:
>
> <<You can download the entire (or just some - your choice) contents of the CD
> at
> http://www.music.columbia.edu/~cecenter/mhl21/ct/foundsound.html
>
> or just get there the easy way by going to
>
> www.loopxchange.com
>
> You can also order the disc for the unheard-of low price of $5 per disc.
> (It's a full length disc if you were wondering). Contact me via e-mail if
> you want one.>>
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: RE: fizmo
> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:48:41 -0800
> From: "Javier Miranda V." <gnominus@earthling.net>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>
> Yeah, where?  I want one too.
>
>   | -----Original Message-----
>   | From: Olivier Malhomme [mailto:malhomme@vete.ucl.ac.be]
>   | Sent: Thursday 10 February 2000 5:28 AM
>   | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>   | Subject: Re: fizmo
>   |
>   |
>   | "I'm hoping someday to find some other synths at basement prices.  I
>   | was keeping an eye on the Ensoniq Fizmo because it was being
>   | discontinued
>   | and it was as cheap as $200-400 at local stores."
>   |
>   | What where where WHEEEEERRREEEEEEEE?????????
>   |
>   |
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: RE: fizmo
> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 07:48:42 -0800
> From: "Javier Miranda V." <gnominus@earthling.net>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>
> Negative reviews schmooze-a-hoola.  There's always somebody who is pissed
> when the rain stops.  If you dig it that should be enough.
>
>   | -----Original Message-----
>   | From: Echophazer@aol.com [mailto:Echophazer@aol.com]
>   | Sent: Thursday 10 February 2000 5:21 AM
>   | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>   | Subject: Re: fizmo
>   |
>   |
>   | I was thinking of buying one until I read all the negative
>   | reviews at sonic
>   | state.
>   |
>   |
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: shameless self-promotion, southern california style
> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 12:27:38 -0500
> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." <LiebigSA@Maritz.com>
> To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>
> two gigs with improvised loopage and mayhem:
>
> stinson/liebig/bendian trio
>
> g.e. stinson: guitars, applied tools, loopage
> steuart liebig: basses, stuff, loopage
> gregg bendian: drums/percussion
>
> one set
> 13 september 2000
> 8:00 p.m.
> $?.?? (sorry)
> soho
> 1221 state st.
> santa barbara, ca, usa
> 805.962.7776, 805.899.2176
>
> BONE STRUCTURE
> g.e. Stinson - guitars, loopage
> gregg bendian - drums,
> steuart liebig - bass, loopage
> jeff gauthier - violins, loopage
>
> MICHAEL VLATKOVICH TRIO
> michael vlatkovitch - trombone,
> chris garcia - drums,
> bruce fowler - trombone
>
>
> Inner Ear Series
> CONJUCTIVE POINTS
>
> 3631 Hayden Avenue
> (between National and Higuera Streets)
> Culver City, CA, usa
> Free Parking available in the Culver City Warner Drive Lot
>
> 20 september 2000
> Concerts begin at 8:00 PM
> $10.00 at the door
> CALL (310)-301-1611 for additional info
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: RE: Princeton Loops-so does Bloomington AND Tampa
> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 13:04:50 -0500
> From: "future perfect" <artmusic@gte.net>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>
>  While we are doing this, I am playing Borders in Tampa, FL this Friday with
> my duo as well. I have also played a lot of Borders up the Eastern US-
> always has been a good place to play, and we seem to do well with CD sales
> too. We have played the one in Princeton (near my hometown in NJ) and it was
> a blast.
> And, for those with a good modem and/or a lot of time to download (an edit
> will be available soon):
> http://members.theglobe.com/TheMincer/Nightstars.mp3 (MP3 file 6.7MB)
>
> Dave Eichenberger- guitars/loops/devices
> http://home1.gte.net/artmusic/dave
>
> 'Future Perfect' - art music
> http://home1.gte.net/artmusic/
>
> > Hey neat,
> >
> >       I play at live solo electric guitar show w/loops there as well:
> >
> > Fri. feb 11th 8:00-10:00pm "Borders Books/ Music" Bloomington, In (don't
> > know phone number)
> >
> >
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: RE: shameless self-promotion, southern california style
> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 13:43:52 -0500
> From: "Taaffe, Denis G" <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
> To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>
> Hey that is quite a few gigs being announced on this list. It would be cool
> to have a portion of these gigs taped and made available as mp3's no? Maybe
> just a 2-3 minutes snip.Just a thought.
>
>
> Denis
>
> Denis Taaffe
> denis_aliengtr@geocities.com
> http://www.dtguitar.com
>
> -
> stinson/liebig/bendian trio
>
> g.e. stinson: guitars, applied tools, loopage
> steuart liebig: basses, stuff, loopage
> gregg bendian: drums/percussion
>
> one set
> 13 september 2000
> 8:00 p.m.
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: RE: shameless self-promotion, southern california style
> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:17:16 -0500
> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." <LiebigSA@Maritz.com>
> To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>
> okay, i plead idiocy . . .
>
> i copied the thing and didn't check the thing too carefully . . .
>
> FEBRUARY not september. (i don't really expect people to be markign their
> calanders that far into the future.)
>
> geez, what a dork!
>
> sorry . . .
>
> stig
>
> make all of that:
>
> two gigs with improvised loopage and mayhem:
>
> stinson/liebig/bendian trio
>
> g.e. stinson: guitars, applied tools, loopage
> steuart liebig: basses, stuff, loopage
> gregg bendian: drums/percussion
>
> one set
> 13 february 2000
> 8:00 p.m.
> $?.?? (sorry)
> soho
> 1221 state st.
> santa barbara, ca, usa
> 805.962.7776, 805.899.2176
>
> BONE STRUCTURE
> g.e. Stinson - guitars, loopage
> gregg bendian - drums,
> steuart liebig - bass, loopage
> jeff gauthier - violins, loopage
>
> MICHAEL VLATKOVICH TRIO
> michael vlatkovitch - trombone,
> chris garcia - drums,
> bruce fowler - trombone
>
>
> Inner Ear Series
> CONJUCTIVE POINTS
>
> 3631 Hayden Avenue
> (between National and Higuera Streets)
> Culver City, CA, usa
> Free Parking available in the Culver City Warner Drive Lot
>
> 20 february 2000
> Concerts begin at 8:00 PM
> $10.00 at the door
> CALL (310)-301-1611 for additional info
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Looping on radio
> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:58:30 EST
> From: Jhsidlo@aol.com
> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>
>     Short notice. I'll be looping tonight at 10:00pm on KSYM. San Antonio
> College. For 30 minutes?
>                                 James H. Sidlo
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: radio show tonight
> Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 21:34:40 -0800 (PST)
> From: Haitch Cee <hcee@vcn.bc.ca>
> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>
> heya folks . loopi stuff going on on plutonian nights tonight . press
> release / shoutcast info etc available at:
>
> http://sine.ranch.org/pluto
>
> show starts at 1am (PST) and goes until dawn
>
> cheers =)
> rich
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> haitch c soundcraft   /   sinesite:  http://sine.ranch.org
> s i n u s o i d a l   \   email:            sine@ranch.org
> records / bc.canada   /   artists. mp3s. realaudio. forums.
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> plutonian nights radio show -+- http://sine.ranch.org/pluto
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: OT: mingus, coltrane, vicious, and buddha having lunch ...
> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 11:27:56 +0100
> From: Cummings <r_t_cummings@compuserve.com>
> To: Loopers Delight <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
> CC: Drummer List <Drummer@onelist.com>
>
> funny little article for those of you into these guys ...
>
> http://www.furious.com/perfect/mingusplay.html
>
> sorry 4 the disturbance ...
>
> rob
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: price wars
> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 11:03:52 -0000
> From: "Trace Elliot Ltd" <info@trace-elliot.com>
> To: <baumhaus@earthlink.net>, <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>
> All this is good publicity. In fact the price has just doubled.
> Trace Elliot Contact Information
> *************************************
> Trace Elliot (UK) Ltd
> Blackwater Trading Estate
> The Causeway
> Maldon
> Essex
> United Kingdom
> CM9 4GG
>
> Tel: +44 (0)1621 851851
> Fax: +44 (0)1621 851932
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: lance glover <baumhaus@earthlink.net>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 9:30 PM
> Subject: Re: price wars
>
> > i agree w/ miko.
> >
> > i mean, is it disputed that there's anything remotely in this price range
> > that does the kinds of things this box does (or will do)? i can't wait
> > for the next wave of nickel & dime arguments once these units hit the
> > stores..:-)
> >
> > lance g.
> >
> >
> > Mike Biffle wrote:
> >
> > > Hey everyone... we've also just heard they're going for ~$660 at Alto.
> > > This is about $100 more than we paid in the previous Alto deal. More
> > > expensive? Yes... Available and in a similar ballpark? YES! They will
> > > probalby cost more at other stores, but thems the breaks gang... This
> > > bitching about $1100 is not doing much for me...
> > >
> > > -m
> > >
> > > >>> "Jonathan El-Bizri" <jbiz@linkexchange.com> 02/09 9:50 AM >>>
> > > So what? Just because one insane Kurzweil slaseperson was prepared to
> > > pay
> > > $3,000 becuase he though he would never see one built again doesn't
> > > mean
> > > that you are going to sell many at $1100. The product will die and
> > > then they
> > > will not be made again.
> > >
> > > bIz
> > >   -----Original Message-----
> > >   From: Trace Elliot Ltd [mailto:info@trace-elliot.com]
> > >   Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2000 2:24 AM
> > >   To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> > >   Subject:
> > >
> > >   It's a small price to pay for such an excellent product. One was
> > > sold
> > > secondhand via NET auction for $3000.
> > >   I can assure everyone that we are making the slimmest of margins on
> > > the
> > > EDP. Ah!, the joys of manufacturing.
> > >   Andy
> > >
> > >   Trace Elliot Contact Information
> > >   *************************************
> > >   Trace Elliot (UK) Ltd
> > >   Blackwater Trading Estate
> > >   The Causeway
> > >   Maldon
> > >   Essex
> > >   United Kingdom
> > >   CM9 4GG
> > >
> > >   Tel: +44 (0)1621 851851
> > >   Fax: +44 (0)1621 851932
> >
> >
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: price wars
> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 04:01:49 -0800 (PST)
> From: John Tidwell <wedgehed@yahoo.com>
> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>
> Since you guys are listening, can you tell us how much
> memory will come installed on the EDP?
>
> The "Full Monty" I hope!
>
> John
>
> PS- Will you offer discounts to anyone who can recite
> dialogue from "The Young Ones" or "Fawlty Towers"?
>
> --- Trace Elliot Ltd <info@trace-elliot.com> wrote:
> > All this is good publicity. In fact the price has
> > just doubled.
> > Trace Elliot Contact Information
> > *************************************
> > Trace Elliot (UK) Ltd
> > Blackwater Trading Estate
> > The Causeway
> > Maldon
> > Essex
> > United Kingdom
> > CM9 4GG
>
>
> =====
> John Tidwell
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://im.yahoo.com
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: price wars
> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 07:40:52 EST
> From: Madoud@aol.com
> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>
> I heard 50 seconds
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: shameless self-promotion, southern california style
> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:54:41 +0100
> From: Cummings <r_t_cummings@compuserve.com>
> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>
> hey stig are you on the ge stinson almbum "vapor"?
> this just got a great review in the wire!
>
> have a great gig - when are you guys coming to europe?
>
> l8ter,
> rob
>
> Liebig, Steuart A. schrieb:
> >
> > two gigs with improvised loopage and mayhem:
> >
> > stinson/liebig/bendian trio
> >
> > g.e. stinson: guitars, applied tools, loopage
> > steuart liebig: basses, stuff, loopage
> > gregg bendian: drums/percussion
> >
> > one set
> > 13 september 2000
> > 8:00 p.m.
> > $?.?? (sorry)
> > soho
> > 1221 state st.
> > santa barbara, ca, usa
> > 805.962.7776, 805.899.2176
> >
> > BONE STRUCTURE
> > g.e. Stinson - guitars, loopage
> > gregg bendian - drums,
> > steuart liebig - bass, loopage
> > jeff gauthier - violins, loopage
> >
> > MICHAEL VLATKOVICH TRIO
> > michael vlatkovitch - trombone,
> > chris garcia - drums,
> > bruce fowler - trombone
> >
> >
> > Inner Ear Series
> > CONJUCTIVE POINTS
> >
> > 3631 Hayden Avenue
> > (between National and Higuera Streets)
> > Culver City, CA, usa
> > Free Parking available in the Culver City Warner Drive Lot
> >
> > 20 september 2000
> > Concerts begin at 8:00 PM
> > $10.00 at the door
> > CALL (310)-301-1611 for additional info
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: RE: price wars
> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 07:41:31 -0800
> From: "Javier Miranda V." <gnominus@earthling.net>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>
> That's not funny even as a joke.
>
>   | -----Original Message-----
>   | From: Trace Elliot Ltd [mailto:info@trace-elliot.com]
>   | Sent: Friday 11 February 2000 3:04 AM
>   | To: baumhaus@earthlink.net; Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>   | Subject: Re: price wars
>   |
>   |
>   | All this is good publicity. In fact the price has just doubled.
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: RE: Looping on radio
> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:55:04 -0500
> From: "Taaffe, Denis G" <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
> To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>
> Howdy,
>
>         I do a show tonight as well at borders for 2 hours. I played a gig
> last week for 2 1/2 hours. I played nonstop without a break and was
> exhausted at the end,my hand ached that night a little haha. SO 30 minutes
> nonstop is decent. Tonight I plan to take a break after an hour.2 hours is
> kind of long I find.will you be looping guitar stuff?
>
> Thanks
> Denis
>
> Denis Taaffe
> denis_aliengtr@geocities.com
> http://www.dtguitar.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jhsidlo@aol.com [mailto:Jhsidlo@aol.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 9:59 PM
> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Subject: Looping on radio
>
>     Short notice. I'll be looping tonight at 10:00pm on KSYM. San Antonio
> College. For 30 minutes?
>                                 James H. Sidlo
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: RE: price wars
> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:59:12 -0500
> From: "Taaffe, Denis G" <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
> To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>,
>      baumhaus@earthlink.net
>
> Now that really is how the music biz works....haha
>
>
> Denis
>
> -
> Subject: Re: price wars
>
> All this is good publicity. In fact the price has just doubled.
> Trace Elliot Contact Information
> *
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: plutonian nights apologies to shoutcast users
> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:25:08 -0800 (PST)
> From: Haitch Cee <hcee@vcn.bc.ca>
> To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>
> heya all
>
> seems that some of you out-of-FM-range folks had problems connecting
> with the zilTV shoutcast rebroadcast last night . apologies for that.
> we'll get it resolved for next weeks show . too bad though, you
> missed me disolving into a sleepdep void 4 hours into my set . you
> also missed me pounding rhythms out on my gut by request from a
> caller . interesting night all-round . thanks go to ghoulash for
> bailing me out with the broad use of lude northern humour and instant
> coffee =P
>
> cheers
> rich
>
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> haitch c soundcraft   /   sinesite:  http://sine.ranch.org
> s i n u s o i d a l   \   email:            sine@ranch.org
> records / bc.canada   /   artists. mp3s. realaudio. forums.
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> plutonian nights radio show -+- http://sine.ranch.org/pluto
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: GFX8
> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 13:20:45 -0500
> From: andre <andre@monmouth.com>
> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>
> any one use the Zoom GFX 8 forlooping?? what's the call on that unit??
>
> thanx,
>
> andre'
>
> LOOPING next friday in NYC..at theKNit (see below)!!
> NEXT GIG: Jfk's Lsd Ufo .......Fri FEB 18- 8pm - Knitting Factory -
> Knitactive Soundstage
> 74 Leonard St - NYC - 212-219-3006- http://www.knittingfactory.com-
> webcast!!??
>
> ZAPPA Tribute--Project Object with IKE WILLIS
> March /April 2000 tourdates at  http://www.projectobject.com
>
> *NEW* CD out - Alien Concepts by Jfk's Lsd Ufo  http://www.ufomusic.com
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: RE: Looping on radio
> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 13:35:16 -0500
> From: "future perfect" <artmusic@gte.net>
> To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>
>  Tonight, the duo I am in will be playing at Borders as well. Plenty of
> looping, and we always record the shows to MiniDisc so we can post clips of
> the stuff we like. Alos, for those who play at Borders now and then- we
> always ask play in the back of the store in the 'art book' section- there
> are usually the biggest couches and chairs there, and it is far away from
> the noise of the cafe. The clip I mentioned yesterday (copied below) was
> recorded at Borders last month.
>
> Dave Eichenberger- guitars/loops/devices
> http://home1.gte.net/artmusic/dave
>
> ****(And, for those with a good modem and/or a lot of time to download (an
> edit
> will be available soon):
> http://members.theglobe.com/TheMincer/Nightstars.mp3 (MP3 file 6.7MB)*****
>
> > Howdy,
> >
> >       I do a show tonight as well at borders for 2 hours. I played a gig
> > last week for 2 1/2 hours. I played nonstop without a break and was
> > exhausted at the end,my hand ached that night a little haha. SO 30 minutes
> > nonstop is decent. Tonight I plan to take a break after an hour.2 hours is
> > kind of long I find.will you be looping guitar stuff?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Denis
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: RE: shameless self-promotion, southern california style
> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:56:03 EST
> From: Echopark99@aol.com
> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>
> Hey STig!
>
> I can't believe I'll ever get to see you guys play!   Do you realize that
> I've been open to the idea of seeing you play here locally for almost a year
> and a half?!?!  I'm tempted to drive up to SB, but I've been doing way too
> much driving lately and I'd probably be late.  And on the 20th I'm gigging
> with the modern dance chicks.  Schedules...    I think I need to do one or
> two less things in life. It seems as if every two hours I'm supposed to be
> somewhere I'm not.  I did manage to catch Nels quite by accident down at the
> Smell a coupla weeks back - acoustic trio!
>
> I saw Dane the other night, at the academy nominating for sound FX oscars. He
> did some great stuff in the Matrix. It's kind of a fun night where we review
> 10-minute clips of the most sound intensive stuff of the year. My boss is up
> for The Green Mile, on which I did crazy electrocution recordings, etc.
>
> How was London?  Find any good blowing/ripping music?
>
> eric p
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: SSSorry! That was for STIG only!
> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 15:56:18 EST
> From: Echopark99@aol.com
> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>
> Sorry Folks, that was for Stig, not everybody!
>
> eric p
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: RE: RE: shameless self-promotion, southern california style
> Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 15:59:17 -0500
> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." <LiebigSA@Maritz.com>
> To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>
> I can't believe I'll ever get to see you guys play!   Do you realize that
> I've been open to the idea of seeing you play here locally for almost a year
>
> and a half?!?!  I'm tempted to drive up to SB, but I've been doing way too
> much driving lately and I'd probably be late.  And on the 20th I'm gigging
> with the modern dance chicks.  Schedules...
>
> ** wowee. well sometime there will be a chance. dance thing sounds fun.
>
>  I think I need to do one or
> two less things in life. It seems as if every two hours I'm supposed to be
> somewhere I'm not.
>
> ** naw, do it all . . . and more.
>
>  I did manage to catch Nels quite by accident down at the
> Smell a coupla weeks back - acoustic trio!
>
> ** who was in that?
>
> I saw Dane the other night, at the academy nominating for sound FX oscars.
> He
> did some great stuff in the Matrix. It's kind of a fun night where we review
>
> 10-minute clips of the most sound intensive stuff of the year. My boss is up
>
> for The Green Mile, on which I did crazy electrocution recordings, etc.
>
> ** great. i should really say hi to him at some point soon.
>
> How was London?  Find any good blowing/ripping music?
>
> ** going end of march.
>
> s

Due to medical hardship,i am selling 2 Echoplex pros', each with 50 sec smpling
time and pro footpedals. i am open to any reasonable offers
you can reach me at <Boccaccio@mindspring.com>


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sat Feb 12 11:19:37 2000
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Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 17:05:00 +0000
From: Olivier Malhomme <malhomme@vete.ucl.ac.be>
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I'm very interested in the Fizmo. If anyone can give a phone number or
internet address. Since I live in Belgium, I am nowhere near going to
the mars or guitar center of the corner, see??


Olivier Malhomme

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sat Feb 12 14:41:03 2000
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Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 14:20:15 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Michael Tuminello <m1cha3l@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: EDP's for sale message
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the question is, can we trust a guy who quotes the whole digest?  ;-)

MT

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sat Feb 12 16:15:34 2000
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From: "Javier Miranda V." <gnominus@earthling.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: EDP's for sale message
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 12:50:21 -0800
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Well, as some of us know, looping, or EDP-specific skills, are in a quite
different field from computer-related skills.  I don't believe one has much
influence over the other.

On the other hand, as a common-sense issue, the dude hasn't bothered to read
about e-mail etiquette, or at least hasn't had much practice in e-mail
matters.  This could either be a personal deficiency or a symptom of
carelessness or indifference which could affect the purchase of an EDP.

I'd say it's 50-50.

  | -----Original Message-----
  | From: Michael Tuminello [mailto:m1cha3l@earthlink.net]
  | Sent: Saturday 12 February 2000 11:20 AM
  | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
  | Subject: Re: EDP's for sale message
  |
  |
  | the question is, can we trust a guy who quotes the whole digest?  ;-)
  |
  | MT
  |
  |

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sat Feb 12 17:20:07 2000
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In a message dated 2/11/0 4:20:34 PM, crash@waste.org writes:

>Modern Dance Chicks?!?!?!?  Wow!  Do they loop?
>
They certainly move well to loops, at times they are actualy looping, too.  
But I guess I'm the only one who really calls them that. They don't really go 
by "Modern Dance Chicks". 

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sun Feb 13 01:01:42 2000
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From: "Greg S" <g716@hotmail.com>
To: "Loopers Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Input problems in EDP - Truncating volume swells.
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 21:46:08 -0800
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This week my EDP began "truncating" the initial part of my volume swells.
That is, it acts a bit like a noise gate where it only records a signal
above a certain input level.  For example: if I  record a smooth volume
swell (beginning with complete silence), the play back will sound as if it
didn't record the initial part of the swell.  This results in a rather
abrupt appearance of the loop vs. the subtle effect I was after.  This is
the first time its misbehaved in the past year that I've had it.

I double checked the Threshold value, and it is set to 0.

Has anyone else experienced this?  Can this be fixed.

More info:
After I noticed the problem, I took the EDP out of the effects loop of my
mixer to make sure my mixer wasn't a part of the problem.  I sampled a good
volume swell into my DL4 pedal (which worked just fine thank you) as a "test
swell" and then plugged the DL4 into the echoplex.  I set the EDP's mix to
50% and the original volume swell comes through the signal path perfectly
smooth, but the recorded version is still cut-off and abrupt.  This is done
with the input set at 25% which is where I normally keep it.  When I move it
to %50, it seems to work better, but then I overload the EDP and it
distorts.

Any suggestions?

thanks,
Greg


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Subject: Re: Input problems in EDP - Truncating volume swells.
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Hello Greg,
I had the same problem and i was also advised to increase the input but
compared to other loop samplers i find the EDP not that dynamic because of
the horrible digital distortion.It can be improved though changing a couple
of resistors like i did. Ask Kim directly and he will tell you exactly which
ones to change.
Good luck!
L.A.



> This week my EDP began "truncating" the initial part of my volume swells.
> That is, it acts a bit like a noise gate where it only records a signal
> above a certain input level.  For example: if I  record a smooth volume
> swell (beginning with complete silence), the play back will sound as if it
> didn't record the initial part of the swell.  This results in a rather
> abrupt appearance of the loop vs. the subtle effect I was after.  This is
> the first time its misbehaved in the past year that I've had it.
>
> I double checked the Threshold value, and it is set to 0.
>
> Has anyone else experienced this?  Can this be fixed.
>
> More info:
> After I noticed the problem, I took the EDP out of the effects loop of my
> mixer to make sure my mixer wasn't a part of the problem.  I sampled a
good
> volume swell into my DL4 pedal (which worked just fine thank you) as a
"test
> swell" and then plugged the DL4 into the echoplex.  I set the EDP's mix to
> 50% and the original volume swell comes through the signal path perfectly
> smooth, but the recorded version is still cut-off and abrupt.  This is
done
> with the input set at 25% which is where I normally keep it.  When I move
it
> to %50, it seems to work better, but then I overload the EDP and it
> distorts.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> thanks,
> Greg
>
>

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 Huh? dang Mark >>>any reason you had to copy the whole digest # 37..I've read it
once....a little wasted band width there. _______j_______


> Subject:
> Loopers-Delight-d Digest                                Volume 00 : Issue 39
>
> Today's Topics:
>   Re: Loopers-Delight-d Digest V00 #37  [ Mark Boccaccio <boccaccio@mindsprin

> Due to medical hardship,i am selling 2 Echoplex pros', each with 50 sec smpling
> time and pro footpedals. i am open to any reasonable offers
> you can reach me at <Boccaccio@mindspring.com>

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From: "renaldo mckim" <renaldo@renaldo.freeserve.co.uk>
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Subject: passive pick ups
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off topic subject
I have a steinberger guitar with the usual composite neck and EMG pickups
but would now like to change the pickups to a passive type. have any of the
list members changed the EMG's and if so what are they using and how do they
find the sound. i am looking for a warmer sound from my guitar but i dont
know if changing the pickups will make much difference as i think the neck
contributes a great deal to the sound of the guitar so any info would be a
help. if the pickups are not going to make much difference to the sound i
will have to get a wooden neck made or swap it with someone with a wooded
steinberger spirit series neck. any info would be appreciated and if you
could respond to me direct at renaldo@renaldo.freeserve.co.uk it would keep
the list clear as its an off topic subject
thanks
Renaldo
p.s.Eric the 500mA supply seems to be working alright. cheers

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From: KILLINFO@aol.com
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Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 12:21:54 EST
Subject: Re: passive pick ups
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Renaldo,

In a message dated 02/13/00 7:51:26 AM, renaldo@renaldo.freeserve.co.uk 
writes:

>i am looking for a warmer sound from my guitar but i dont
>know if changing the pickups will make much difference.

Changing pickups can have either subtle or dramatic difference in the sound 
of your instrument depending upon the pickups themselves and the instrument 
in particular. I don't know anything much about steinbergers but I do know a 
thing or two about pickups. I used to work for Seymour Duncan and they make 
hundreds of varieties of pickups to suit any guitar/player/style/need. 

All I can say is check out all of the manufacturers websites and submit your 
inquiry as a tech question. Anybody should be ablr to at least offer some 
educated suggestiuons and answer any other questions you might have--Duncan, 
EMG or Dimarzio. Honnestly, they all make pretty good products. I may have my 
own bias but I won;t burden you with that.

Ted Killian

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Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 11:32:11 -0800
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Input problems in EDP - Truncating volume swells.
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Greg said:
>This week my EDP began "truncating" the initial part of my volume swells.
>That is, it acts a bit like a noise gate where it only records a signal
>above a certain input level.  For example: if I  record a smooth volume
>swell (beginning with complete silence), the play back will sound as if it
>didn't record the initial part of the swell.  This results in a rather
>abrupt appearance of the loop vs. the subtle effect I was after.  This is
>the first time its misbehaved in the past year that I've had it.
>
>I double checked the Threshold value, and it is set to 0.

Threshold parameter has nothing to do with it, that is for triggering
record when you actually start playing.

>Has anyone else experienced this?  Can this be fixed.

Sounds like you have the old software version. Check the Echoplex FAQ for
more info:

http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/echoplex/FAQ5.html#gate


kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | 


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From: "Jan P" <jan@gomotech.com>
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Subject: bay area -> santa cruz tonight?
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loopies;

I'm looking for a ride from the bay area to the loopfest gig in santa cruz
tonight... anyone can accomodate 1? pls call me (415) 681-0172

in lake'ch

jan



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                            Playlist for EMUSIC

"EMUSIC," an electronic, ambient, and space music show, airs each Thursday
at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem, PA and 93.9 FM in
Easton, PA and Phillipsburg, NJ.

                        Show #151        February 10, 2000.

On this show, I continued the month-long focus on American synthesist
Michael
Garrison.  Tonight's Feature CD at Midnight was Eclipse on the Windspell
label.


ARTIST                  TRACK                    ALBUM (label)
======================= ========================
==============================
11:04 pm
Dom F. Scab             Fear to Void             Innerseed (Free Records)
VA [DisguisedIllusions] Driftin' Thoughts        Colours (Spheric Music)
wEirD                   Manuel Gearchange        A Different Kind of Normal
(Neu Harmony)
Coyote Oldman           House Made of Dawn       House Made of Dawn (Hearts
of Space)
MaJaLe & James Johnson  Imaginarium              Live Under a Harvest Moon
(Zero Music)
Max Corbacho            Death Valley             Vestiges (Free Records)
VA [romb]               rods and cones           Mote (The Foundry)
VA [romb & eM]          in the drift             Mote (The Foundry)
Jean-Pierre Saccomani   Autumn                   The Four Seasons (M-C-P)

12:00 am
Michael Garrison        Departure                Eclipse (Windspell Music)
Michael Garrison        Airborn                  Eclipse (Windspell Music)
Michael Garrison        Celestial Nights         Eclipse (Windspell Music)
Michael Garrison        Daydreams                Eclipse (Windspell Music)
Michael Garrison        The Elliptical Sun       Eclipse (Windspell Music)
Michael Garrison        Interstellar Romance     Eclipse (Windspell Music)
Michael Garrison        Dimensions               Eclipse (Windspell Music)
Michael Garrison        The Awakening            Eclipse (Windspell Music)
Michael Garrison        Cloud Burst 2001         Eclipse (Windspell Music)
StillPoint              Maps 2 & 3               Maps Without Edges (City of
Tribes)

1:00 am

 * = exerpt
VA = Various Artists (compilation)

On the next EMUSIC, I'll continue the month-long focus on the American
synthesist
Michael Garrison.  The feature CD at Midnight will be Michael Garrison Live
Volume 2
on the Windspell label.

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Subject: beginner guitar synth questions
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Hey gang, I've been bitten by the guitar-synth bug and am in the process of
reviewing my finances to see if I can afford to get into it soon.  Question:
I'm not primarily interested in using it to emulate other instruments
(although that will be nice), but I am very much into creating new sounds on
my PC and storing them as patches on the synth unit so I can use them on the
fly.  Does a basic device like the Roland GR-30 let you do this, or do I
need to look into something a little more sophisticated?

Also, is it the box or the pickup that's responsible for the quality of the
tracking?  Is the GK-2A the only pickup I'll need to look at?

Thanks.


Peter


R.I.P. Charles M Schultz

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sun Feb 13 22:03:11 2000
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At 6:00 PM -0800 2/13/00, Peter Shindler wrote:
>Hey gang, I've been bitten by the guitar-synth bug and am in the process of
>reviewing my finances to see if I can afford to get into it soon.  Question:
>I'm not primarily interested in using it to emulate other instruments
>(although that will be nice), but I am very much into creating new sounds on
>my PC and storing them as patches on the synth unit so I can use them on the
>fly.  Does a basic device like the Roland GR-30 let you do this, or do I
>need to look into something a little more sophisticated?

I don't think you can load your own samples into the roland things. You
need a sampler which can then be triggered by the roland. In the past, the
rolands had significantly worse tracking for triggering external devices
than with their own internal sounds. I don't know if that is still true. In
any case, having a sampler around can't hurt. You can trigger precreated
loops on it. :-)


>Also, is it the box or the pickup that's responsible for the quality of the
>tracking?  Is the GK-2A the only pickup I'll need to look at?

those things matter, but ultimately midi is not designed for guitar synth
and that is the bottleneck. There is no hope, all midi guitars suck. :-)
Plug the guitar into a bunch of crazy effects and then into the inputs of
an analog synth, for all the filters and lfos and envelopes and such. It
will be way more expressive and you'll have far more real-time control to
tweak sounds. Skip the sample triggering thing if you are doing your own
custom sounds and not trying to sound like a bad timpani or saxophone
player, you'll be much happier!

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | 


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sun Feb 13 22:12:05 2000
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i've been reading very nice things about the axon guitar synth system on
the motu-mac list recently. check it out:
http://www.musicindustries.com/axon/

bobdog

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Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 19:47:01 -0800
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At 11:57 PM -0800 1/20/00, Robert van der Kamp wrote:

>> >Ouch. 16 bit AD/DA is..., well, dated. Soundwise, I mean.


happened to see this comment on the list a while back, but didn't have any
time then. I don't have any time now either, but what the hell....

The sound chip technology might be a few years old, 'tis true, but then
so's a tube amp and a microphone and a tb-303. In the niche musical
instrument world, there is simply not enough money from the tiny sales
volumes to be able to update products as quickly as the PC industry. that's
life - you take what you can get. These type of products usually require at
least three years in the market before anybody even starts to notice them
and a demand for it begins to develop. Nobody doing these sorts of
instruments has the resources to churn out new products every 6-12 months,
before the last one even got a solid footing!

You also expect musical instruments to be around for a while; they need to
be so people can become familiar enough with it to make it a part of their
music! Otherwise, you'll be spending all of your time learning the features
of the latest toy and no time creating with something you know as well as
your own voice. Why does everything need to be updated all the time when it
is fine as it is and people love it that way? And why would you want it to
be? That's PC industry thinking. A musical instrument should be there for
your life, not a few months. There should be time for traditions to
develop, for skills and techniques to grow, for music to be created and
performed, for masters to appear and show the way for new generations of
players.  In fact this is serious for computer based music, compositions
and instruments made on computers 10 years ago are mostly lost forever. The
software doesn't work anymore, the file formats are unreadable, the old
computers are gone! Computer music created now, where will it be in 10, 20,
50 years?  A tragedy in the making....

It's also a problem for development, the hardware components are changing
too quickly right now to support serious electronic musical instrument
creation. That is a primary reason so many classic instruments are gone,
the parts are obsolete because the computer industry doesn't use them
anymore. We need confidence that the parts we choose will be available for
at least the 5-10 years or more you expect for the product's life. We had
that kind of stability when we created the Echoplex, and all of the parts
in it are still available now, 5 years later. We don't have this stability
currently with the latest audio components, it is chaos. It will come again
though, and there will eventually be another generation of echoplex
hardware. But for now, we focus on making what we have better, with new
features and functions and innovations for the same hardware, since it
still has plenty of room to grow! And really, how many have really mastered
the instrument as it is? There is still so much more creativity and music
for the future with the things we already have!

But regardless of the sound chip's up-to-datedness, the looping
functionality of the echoplex is by far the state of the art. There is
nothing out there even close. By that metric, the echoplex leads the world
by a good 5-10 years of development time!

So your choice: 24bit/96KHz of looping functions from 1982, or
16bit/41.4KHz of the most radically innovative loop instrument there is! :-)

my totally biased opinion, of course. :-)

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | 


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sun Feb 13 22:51:24 2000
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Subject: Re: beginner guitar synth questions
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From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: beginner guitar synth questions

> Plug the guitar into a bunch of crazy effects and then into the inputs of
> an analog synth, for all the filters and lfos and envelopes and such. It
> will be way more expressive and you'll have far more real-time control to
> tweak sounds. Skip the sample triggering thing if you are doing your own
> custom sounds and not trying to sound like a bad timpani or saxophone
> player, you'll be much happier!

Ok, that's an intriguing idea which I'm going to have to look into.  What
specific analog synths should I check out?


Peter

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 14 00:27:10 2000
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GTR SYNTH info:

at least in the ROLAND corner...

look for  a used GR1..

thats  the last great TWEEKABLE-on-the-fly roland synth

the gr9? & gr 30 sound great..more menu driven and no 'patch names'

another way to go is the GI-10--1/2space  midi converter..then you can
patch into ANY synth uwant

there's also AXON, yamaha, casio etc for other systems..sweep thru
ebay.com...digibid.com..roguemusic.com

andre'

At 09:00 PM 02/13/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>Hey gang, I've been bitten by the guitar-synth bug and am in the process of
>reviewing my finances to see if I can afford to get into it soon.  Question:
>I'm not primarily interested in using it to emulate other instruments
>(although that will be nice), but I am very much into creating new sounds on
>my PC and storing them as patches on the synth unit so I can use them on the
>fly.  Does a basic device like the Roland GR-30 let you do this, or do I
>need to look into something a little more sophisticated?
>
>Also, is it the box or the pickup that's responsible for the quality of the
>tracking?  Is the GK-2A the only pickup I'll need to look at?
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>Peter
>
>
>R.I.P. Charles M Schultz
>
>
>
NEXT GIG: Jfk's Lsd Ufo .......Fri FEB 18- 8pm - Knitting Factory -
Knitactive Soundstage
74 Leonard St - NYC - 212-219-3006- http://www.knittingfactory.com-
webcast!!??

ZAPPA Tribute--Project Object with IKE WILLIS
March /April 2000 tourdates at  http://www.projectobject.com

*NEW* CD out - Alien Concepts by Jfk's Lsd Ufo	http://www.ufomusic.com

Monica Lewinsky... (on CNN's Larry King Live discussing her miraculous
Jenny Craig weight loss):  "I've learned not to put things in my mouth that
are bad for me"


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Subject: Re: beginner guitar synth questions
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At 09:00 PM 2/13/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Hey gang, I've been bitten by the guitar-synth bug and am in the process of
>reviewing my finances to see if I can afford to get into it soon.  Question:
>I'm not primarily interested in using it to emulate other instruments
>(although that will be nice), but I am very much into creating new sounds on
>my PC and storing them as patches on the synth unit so I can use them on the
>fly.  Does a basic device like the Roland GR-30 let you do this, or do I
>need to look into something a little more sophisticated?

Hi Peter,

Several thoughts/answers (assuming what you want to do is create sounds on
the PC using a software synth or similar program then download them as
samples into a guitar synth):

1. No the GR-30 will not allow you to do this.  At first, I thought you
wanted to be able to _edit_ guitar synth patches, which would not have been
a problem.

2. If you want to "play" your newly created sounds on the PC itself or on
an external sampler, then you have to go the external MIDI route.  The MIDI
conversion process adds its own latency, but I have friends who have made
it work by using the external MIDI modules for slower melody lines and
atmospherics.  The Axon (mentioned by another respondent on this thread) is
said to be very good, but I haven't tried it myself.  The Starrlabs Ztar
solves the problem by substituting a 24x6 array of little keys for a
traditional guitar fretboard - in essence it is a keyboard instrument
designed to be more approachable for guitarists.  The downside of that is
you lose the strings for purposes of bending and vibrato - it does have a
string trigger option, but it is for superimposing the dynamics of plucking
and muting strings on the MIDI'd sounds.

3. Performance-wise, while I think samples have their place, the problem is
that even after you decide on a way to "play" your sample from your guitar
(or Ztar if you go that route) is that the sample itself is just a snapshot
of a sound.  You can use filters and envelopes to make it "move" a little,
but it's not really "alive".
>
>Also, is it the box or the pickup that's responsible for the quality of the
>tracking?  Is the GK-2A the only pickup I'll need to look at?

Both.  I believe the GK2 series have built-in filtering circuitry that
tries to toss out the spurious harmonics in trying to figure out what
note(s) you are playing.  Some contend that RMC pickups
(http://www.rmcpickup.com) deliver higher quality sound signals to the
converter or whatever polyphonic box you are connecting to (e.g. Roland
VG8/VG88).   

Yamaha manufactures a pickup that is GK2-compatible.  It was apparently
meant to be a companion to their G50 guitar-MIDI converter, which uses
slightly older Axon technology.  They also make a pickup that is designed
for bass guitar string spacing.

Personally, as a former guitar synth owner, I'm more interested in the
direction Kim mentioned in his reply.  Part of it is that the main reason
to buy a guitar synth like the GR30 doens't really apply to me - and that
is to use its imitative voices for songwriting (lay down bass line, horn
lines, percussion parts, etc.).  I am no great shakes at keyboards, but can
operate them well enough to not need a guitar synth.  I've been interested
in the VG8/VG88 because it offers the potential for synth-like sounds
without the tracking delays but there is an alternative even to that in
RMC's fanout box.  This box takes the polyphonic signal from a hex-pickup
driven guitar and provides 6 outputs for the strings in addition to an
additional poly out, so that instead of feeding a VG system, you can
instead plug in analog synth filters, effects processors, etc. for each
string independently.

Well, I hope I didn't confuse you too much. :)

Paolo

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From: Wjguitar@aol.com
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Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 23:58:35 EST
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I recommend you check out the RMC pickup...it tracks better than the GK-2A in 
many cases..... <A HREF="http://www.rmcpickup.com/">Click here: RMC Pickups</A
>

Regards, Wayne

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>> custom sounds and not trying to sound like a bad timpani or saxophone
>> player, you'll be much happier!
>
>Ok, that's an intriguing idea which I'm going to have to look into.  What
>specific analog synths should I check out?
>
>
>Peter
>


i'd say=--- any one which a piano player won't flip out on and say sounds
fake....>as will always be the case when new frontiers are pushed. remember
the attack on Dylan for 'going electric'

ac

>
NEXT GIG: Jfk's Lsd Ufo .......Fri FEB 18- 8pm - Knitting Factory -
Knitactive Soundstage
74 Leonard St - NYC - 212-219-3006- http://www.knittingfactory.com-
webcast!!??

ZAPPA Tribute--Project Object with IKE WILLIS
March /April 2000 tourdates at  http://www.projectobject.com

*NEW* CD out - Alien Concepts by Jfk's Lsd Ufo	http://www.ufomusic.com

Monica Lewinsky... (on CNN's Larry King Live discussing her miraculous
Jenny Craig weight loss):  "I've learned not to put things in my mouth that
are bad for me"


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>those things matter, but ultimately midi is not designed for guitar synth
>and that is the bottleneck. There is no hope, all midi guitars suck. :-)
<snip>
>kim
>
>______________________________________________________________________
>Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight


sigh. here we go again.

that's totally subjective, kim..andi KNOW youre KINDA kidding

a guitar synth should not be judged as anything but/.....

let this guy form his own  opinion --- i gave  a sterile--info only
response...
depends on what he wnats to do

for many guitarists-----all ,yes ALL EFFECTS SUCK

>tweak sounds. Skip the sample triggering thing if you are doing your own
>custom sounds and not trying to sound like a bad timpani or saxophone
>player, you'll be much happier!


see-- this is your, and other people's constant mistake--- i for one , use
sounds like that 1% of the time !! it's not what works well....

guitar synth is PERFECT for setting up aquick bassline loop..or just
getting a  nice cloudy JX-3p or oberheim pad behind some guitar loops.....

the people who hate guitar synth INVARIABLY are (for some reason) always
caught up in trying to use it as a Piano, sax, or acoustic gtr. It's
HORRIBLE for that.

But--throw the whole thing out??? bizarre thought process.

it's like complaining that a strat straight into marshall on 10 doesnt make
those Chopin Etudes sound relaxing enuf. NOT WHAT ITS FOR...
>

sigh.whatever
NEXT GIG: Jfk's Lsd Ufo .......Fri FEB 18- 8pm - Knitting Factory -
Knitactive Soundstage
74 Leonard St - NYC - 212-219-3006- http://www.knittingfactory.com-
webcast!!??

ZAPPA Tribute--Project Object with IKE WILLIS
March /April 2000 tourdates at  http://www.projectobject.com

*NEW* CD out - Alien Concepts by Jfk's Lsd Ufo	http://www.ufomusic.com

Monica Lewinsky... (on CNN's Larry King Live discussing her miraculous
Jenny Craig weight loss):  "I've learned not to put things in my mouth that
are bad for me"


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 14 01:07:40 2000
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   Well guitar synth,pretty much my subject, I agree with Kim, forget about
trying to sound like other instruments,I turn my guitar signal into a
sequencer,a lead synth, whatever, I use the Electro harmonix Microsynth
plugged into a lot of other EH effects and into a boomerang,I find the
Microsynth very easy to use and I can make it sound very cool,I never run
out of cool sounds with it.  then I feed all that into the Roland SPV 355,
wich is a rack analog synth with all kinds of filters, VCO´s and such,and
then I run all that into another looper.

  Some older analog Synths like the KORG MS-20 let you plug another signal
into them and use all their filters as well...


  But  you should check out the new and amazing Sherman Filterbank, wich is
a very cool device with tons of knobs and switches to twist, detune, distort
and deconstruct ANY signal you feed in, here´s the page:

               http://www.ping.be/sherman/

Andy.




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Subject: Re: beginner guitar synth questions
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NORD!!!
I played with the Micro at NAMM- awesome fun- -

Cliff

:)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Shindler" <shindler@mediaone.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2000 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: beginner guitar synth questions


> From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
> Subject: Re: beginner guitar synth questions
>
> > Plug the guitar into a bunch of crazy effects and then into the inputs
of
> > an analog synth, for all the filters and lfos and envelopes and such. It
> > will be way more expressive and you'll have far more real-time control
to
> > tweak sounds. Skip the sample triggering thing if you are doing your own
> > custom sounds and not trying to sound like a bad timpani or saxophone
> > player, you'll be much happier!
>
> Ok, that's an intriguing idea which I'm going to have to look into.  What
> specific analog synths should I check out?
>
>
> Peter
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 14 02:48:19 2000
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Sorry folks for being a newbie to loopers and ...

... I am probably the only one left who hasn't upgraded my Lexicon Jam Man to its full 32 MB capacity!

Where can I get hold of those weird ZIP chips?

"Chips for Less" in Texas has run out of it, as well as other Internet related resources. Mind you, I live in Sweden where the total amount of Jam Man's sold are
10. So no one wants (music shops) to order it anyway...

Probably the price will be more expensive than a second hand Jam Man with full memory! 

regards
/Mats


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 14 02:37:10 2000
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Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 23:26:00 -0800
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: beginner guitar synth questions
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At 9:32 PM -0800 2/13/00, andre wrote:
>>> custom sounds and not trying to sound like a bad timpani or saxophone
>>> player, you'll be much happier!
>>
>>Ok, that's an intriguing idea which I'm going to have to look into.  What
>>specific analog synths should I check out?
>>
>>
>>Peter
>>
>
>
>i'd say=--- any one which a piano player won't flip out on and say sounds
>fake....>as will always be the case when new frontiers are pushed. remember
>the attack on Dylan for 'going electric'
>

we are talking about analog synths here, I don't think a piano player is
gonna care much about how close the low-pass is to a real minimoog any more
than he'll care the tone of a timpani :-)  It's those analog synth freaks
you have to watch out for, but people I know seem to really like the
Waldorf Q:

http://www2.waldorf-gmbh.de/products.html

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | 


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--------------2A3F9A80AC5EFC9E3580D153
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

hi mats

i upgraded my jamman last week ... so you're really the only one left.
;-)

try at roguemus@ix.netcom.com

they are shipping to europe and make a very good job ... it took me just =
4 days, to get the upgrade.

jes=FAs




"Mats Eriksson (ECS)" schrieb:

> Sorry folks for being a newbie to loopers and ...
>
> ... I am probably the only one left who hasn't upgraded my Lexicon Jam =
Man to its full 32 MB capacity!
>
> Where can I get hold of those weird ZIP chips?
>
> "Chips for Less" in Texas has run out of it, as well as other Internet =
related resources. Mind you, I live in Sweden where the total amount of J=
am Man's sold are
> 10. So no one wants (music shops) to order it anyway...
>
> Probably the price will be more expensive than a second hand Jam Man wi=
th full memory!
>
> regards
> /Mats

--------------2A3F9A80AC5EFC9E3580D153
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
hi mats
<p>i upgraded my jamman last week ... so you're really the only one left.
<br>;-)
<p>try at <u>roguemus@ix.netcom.com</u>
<p>they are shipping to europe and make a very good job ... it took me
just 4 days, to get the upgrade.
<p>jes&uacute;s
<br>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;
<p>"Mats Eriksson (ECS)" schrieb:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Sorry folks for being a newbie to loopers and ...
<p>... I am probably the only one left who hasn't upgraded my Lexicon Jam
Man to its full 32 MB capacity!
<p>Where can I get hold of those weird ZIP chips?
<p>"Chips for Less" in Texas has run out of it, as well as other Internet
related resources. Mind you, I live in Sweden where the total amount of
Jam Man's sold are
<br>10. So no one wants (music shops) to order it anyway...
<p>Probably the price will be more expensive than a second hand Jam Man
with full memory!
<p>regards
<br>/Mats</blockquote>
</html>

--------------2A3F9A80AC5EFC9E3580D153--

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 14 04:15:48 2000
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From: Phaedebk@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 04:08:31 EST
Subject: Re: beginner guitar synth questions
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Hey there,

No, there are actually quite a few different pickups and systems out there...  The pickup is a portion of how accurate the tracking of what you are playing relative to the synth playing the same notes generated by the controller.  The conversion brain is going to be the second half equation, and you'll possibly want to either go with an all in one system or go Axon for faster tracking...  Not sure if you're going to be using an electric guitar or an electric bass guitar, but either way, the best conversion brains are going to be (in order of better accuracy)
Axon AX-100 (or AX-100SB)
Yamaha G50
Roland GR-33
Roland GR-30
Shadow SH-075

For pickups, I recommend going with RMC's, however they are a bit pricy and aren't the easiest thing to install...  If you go with a HEX system, such as the Roland GK-2a, or Axon/Yamaha equivalent, you'll find that the tracking is not as accurate and that the number of incorrect notes, warbles, and just silence is going to increase.  However, you'll also be able to get a good idea of just what a synth guitar can do, plus they're far easier to install, and don't require as specific an instrument.

Lastly, it looks as though all you're really wanting is a controller,... may want to check out a Ztar by Starr Labs, you'll find that they're the fastest thing around, however, you do loose the sound of a guitar (they're really keyboards in guitar's clothing).

For all-in-one systems, you may want to check out a Parker MIDIFly or BMCGuitar MIDIGuitar.

Hope this helps!
L8r on,

Lee-ohki.

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In a message dated 2/13/00 10:03:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
kflint@annihilist.com writes:

<< those things matter, but ultimately midi is not designed for guitar synth
 and that is the bottleneck. There is no hope, all midi guitars suck. :-) >>
I would have to disagree. I have been using git-synths since they came out.
in the past tracking was horrindous BUT now we have "stnth-ready guitars" IE: 
parkers etc..... i own a Godin (Canadian based Co.) which has (as do the 
Parkers ) a built-in roland p/u mounted AS/under the bridge . this increased 
the tracking rate by a very very noticable ammount (i also have a 69 strat w/ 
a Roland p/u ATTACHED --not near the tracking ability---)
Also it is not the guitar synth that has tracking "problems" a guitar s/p/u 
wnts to hear a clean pick and i mean clean IE: Mr Fripp. so you may want to 
try to work on your techniqe a little/lot :-)
I play one way w/out the git synth running and try the above refined picking 
technique when using a synth.
Finnally , i dont use MANY tone modules BUT i have found my Godin works great 
with the Yamaha JV1080 and 2080 Tone modules
don't give up.

Carl Snow
Moss Hill REC>

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Subject: Re: beginner guitar synth questions...oops fergot
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In a message dated 2/13/00 10:03:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
kflint@annihilist.com writes:

<< Also, is it the box or the pickup that's responsible for the quality of the
 >tracking?  Is the GK-2A the only pickup I'll need to look at?
  >>
its the pickup

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In a message dated 2/13/00 10:03:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
kflint@annihilist.com writes:

<<  Does a basic device like the Roland GR-30 let you do this, or do I
 >need to look into something a little more sophisticated?
  >>
the Gr-30 will NOT do this ALONE...
BUT midi though something OR -my pref- use a tone modual such as the Yamaha 
JV seris

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----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Soto <smaug@servidor.unam.mx>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2000 1:02 AM
Subject: Re: beginner guitar synth questions
>
>   But  you should check out the new and amazing Sherman Filterbank, wich
is
> a very cool device with tons of knobs and switches to twist, detune,
distort
> and deconstruct ANY signal you feed in, here´s the page:
>
>                http://www.ping.be/sherman/


The Filterbank looks like fun!  Anyone here played with one of these?  And
do we have any pricing info (the website doesn't)?


Peter

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 14 08:43:35 2000
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So, Kim...

Now that we're weeks away from a new era of EDP distribution, and given that said
EDPs will feature the "old" software, is there any way to get the new EDP control
software ye've been toiling away upon lo, these forlorn, lovelorn, EDPlorn months?
Are you soliciting requests for beta testers? Beta blockers? Dan Blocker is Sally
Bowles in Peter Brook's controversial production of the rarely staged _Cabaret: With
a Vengeance_? I digress...

What's the software's status, in any case? Thanks for sharing.

_______________________________________________________________________

    ~   > -- James Keepnews -- <  "Put oneself into a state of intense
  (.-.)             *               ignorance and curiosity, and yet
 (   \  > - Multimedia Yahoo - <    see things in advance."
    -               *
    "   >   keepnews@node.net  <       -- Robert Bresson (1901-1999)
_______________________________________________________________________


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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 08:44:36 EST
Subject: Re: Plexes and instruments: a Sunday evening essay
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kf, et al:

<<widebodied snipping & evil quote-misplacements>>

> But regardless of the sound chip's up-to-datedness,
> the looping functionality of the echoplex is by far
> the state of the art.
> There is nothing out there even close.
> By that metric, the echoplex leads the world
> by a good 5-10 years of development time!
yup, there it is.....
feature/functionality/realtime interface-wise, there is *no contest* twixt the edp & any other loopingdevice i've played---
{though, of course:
a) there are devices i'm sure i ain't tried, yet &
b) it might be noted that the product-oriented paradigm i've used, above, is not necessarily pertinent to the creation of music}.

> So your choice: 24bit/96KHz of looping functions from
> 1982,
hey! i could swear that you'd just said:
> The sound chip technology might be a few years old,
> 'tis true, but then so's a tube amp
> and a microphone and a tb-303.
hmmm... anyway:
i'm still finding new modes of expression w/my old-tech's sound & functionality; yeah, even the antiquated looping-devices: even the oud, yo.
8bit? 17ksampling?
who cares!?!
it all just results in a sound flying thru the vibrating & ever-disappearing-air, anyways:
to quote russell hoban (way out of context, natch),
'there are no digressions'.....

> or 16bit/41.4KHz of the most radically
> innovative loop instrument there is! :-)
well, actually..... hmmm... lemme thinka minit, ummunnhh.....
i think i'll have a double-order of the radical-innovation-thingie (!edp!) w/a healthy buncha old-tech on the side, puhleez.....

> my totally biased opinion, of course. :-)
an opinion w/which i, for one, agree.
pax aus,
dt

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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:33:55 -0500
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From: andre <andre@monmouth.com>
Subject: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
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At 12:02 AM 02/14/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>
>   Well guitar synth,pretty much my subject, I agree with Kim, forget about
>trying to sound like other instruments,I turn my guitar signal into a

actually..(correct me please Kim??)-- i feel what's unfair about Kim's
response is he IS rating guitar synth via sounds that never will work
"well" on them -like sax, trumpet, ac gtr, etc(and indeed-depending on your
musical needs, they may)

by this formula:

a violin sucks-since one don't sound so good doing the intro to 'pinball
wizard'

a piano sucks-- trying to cop all those bernie worrell lines on
'flashlight', or the emerson solo at the end of 'lucky man'

USE STUFF FOR WHAT IT IS


dunno about you, i'm here to make music outta whatever technology comes
along...and that for me starts with the highly technological yamaha
acoustic guitar
NEXT GIG: Jfk's Lsd Ufo .......Fri FEB 18- 8pm - Knitting Factory -
Knitactive Soundstage
74 Leonard St - NYC - 212-219-3006- http://www.knittingfactory.com-
webcast!!??

ZAPPA Tribute--Project Object with IKE WILLIS
March /April 2000 tourdates at  http://www.projectobject.com

*NEW* CD out - Alien Concepts by Jfk's Lsd Ufo	http://www.ufomusic.com

Monica Lewinsky... (on CNN's Larry King Live discussing her miraculous
Jenny Craig weight loss):  "I've learned not to put things in my mouth that
are bad for me"


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 14 09:33:46 2000
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From: Echophazer@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:26:56 EST
Subject: Re: beginner guitar synth questions
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 I own a sherman and I absolutely love it! I've used it on everything; 
Guitars, cheesy keyboards, vocals, my lovely modulars (which will stay in my 
bedroom even if I get married), but my favorite application had to have been 
the homemade steel thundersheet from when I had torn the old pool down. The 
SFB is a great device. I believe it cost me around $650-$750. They even throw 
in a sticker sheet! Even without the stickers though this unit is well worth 
buying.

Hope I've been of help,
Another guy named Peter

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 14 09:39:00 2000
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From: "Pedro Felix" <PedroFelix@worldnet.att.net>
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:19:05 -0600
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The full review by Peter Freeman of EM lists the Filertbank at $799. Looks
and sounds! mighty impressive, i've got to stop in at Dr. Sound in NYC and
take a closer look.
Cheers, Pedro Felix

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Shindler <shindler@mediaone.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Date: Monday, February 14, 2000 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: beginner guitar synth questions



----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Soto <smaug@servidor.unam.mx>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2000 1:02 AM
Subject: Re: beginner guitar synth questions
>
>   But  you should check out the new and amazing Sherman Filterbank, wich
is
> a very cool device with tons of knobs and switches to twist, detune,
distort
> and deconstruct ANY signal you feed in, here´s the page:
>
>                http://www.ping.be/sherman/


The Filterbank looks like fun!  Anyone here played with one of these?  And
do we have any pricing info (the website doesn't)?


Peter


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 14 09:40:20 2000
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>
>we are talking about analog synths here, I don't think a piano player is
>gonna care much about how close the low-pass is to a real minimoog any more
>than he'll care the tone of a timpani :-)  It's those analog synth freaks



hmmm..by YOUR logic it seems he would. You continually attack the worth of
guitar synth, usually on the basis of sounds and 'tracking
problems'whatever those are in 2000


in good spirit
andre'
NEXT GIG: Jfk's Lsd Ufo .......Fri FEB 18- 8pm - Knitting Factory -
Knitactive Soundstage
74 Leonard St - NYC - 212-219-3006- http://www.knittingfactory.com-
webcast!!??

ZAPPA Tribute--Project Object with IKE WILLIS
March /April 2000 tourdates at  http://www.projectobject.com

*NEW* CD out - Alien Concepts by Jfk's Lsd Ufo	http://www.ufomusic.com

Monica Lewinsky... (on CNN's Larry King Live discussing her miraculous
Jenny Craig weight loss):  "I've learned not to put things in my mouth that
are bad for me"


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 14 11:51:46 2000
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From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
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>At 12:02 AM 02/14/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>>
>>   Well guitar synth,pretty much my subject, I agree with Kim, forget about
>>trying to sound like other instruments,I turn my guitar signal into a
>
>actually..(correct me please Kim??)-- i feel what's unfair about Kim's
>response is he IS rating guitar synth via sounds that never will work
>"well" on them -like sax, trumpet, ac gtr, etc(and indeed-depending on your
>musical needs, they may)
>
>by this formula:
>
>a violin sucks-since one don't sound so good doing the intro to 'pinball
>wizard'
>
>a piano sucks-- trying to cop all those bernie worrell lines on
>'flashlight', or the emerson solo at the end of 'lucky man'
>

no, that's absolutely nothing at all like what I was saying. That's just
what you decided I said so that you could make some other commentary.

you do recall that I spent 3 years of my engineering career working on what
was supposed to be the be-all and end-all of guitar synths? When I say they
all suck, it's a technical commentary on the technology.

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | 


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> >>> custom sounds and not trying to sound like a bad timpani or saxophone
> >>> player, you'll be much happier!
> >>Ok, that's an intriguing idea which I'm going to have to look into.  What
> >>specific analog synths should I check out?

> we are talking about analog synths here, I don't think a piano player is
> gonna care much about how close the low-pass is to a real minimoog any more
> than he'll care the tone of a timpani :-)  It's those analog synth freaks
> you have to watch out for, but people I know seem to really like the
> Waldorf Q:  http://www2.waldorf-gmbh.de/products.html

heh.

Well I guess at 50+ synths I qualify as an analog synth freak. i also
play guitar (straight acoustic or heavily processed electric) and guitar
synths (Old Roland analog GR series, midi guitar, etc).

The first question you have to ask your self is do you want to use your
guitar polyphonically (Ie; more than one note as in chords and such) or
for simple leads and monophonic lines.

Unless you are using a dedicated guitar synth or midi interface all the
effects boxes and analog synths are monophonic. Even the polyphonic
synths will only allow you to play into the filter and such so you're
not playing the synth itself but merely using it as a processor.

While I agrere the Waldorf Q is an amazing synth that is well of $2500US
and it still will only let you process through it not play it.

there are a few old analogs with Pitch convertors in them that actually
track the guitar note coming in to oscillators inside the synth and this
might be fun if you're looking to do a lead type thing. The korg MS20
does this as does thre Roland SVC355. both are rare and very $$ of
course. The Korg X911 "Guitar synth" is a msall box geared towards
mangling spounds but doesn't track too well (actually nonoe of the older
analog pitch convertors track well.)

If you just want to mangle the guitar signal beyond comprehension then
something as basic asthe Waldorf 4pole filter box might work. you could
also go the completely other route and pick up a vintage modular like
the arp 2600 or EMS VCS3 (as used by Pink Floyd!) for well over $2k
again. 

The cheapest and easier route ti as someone said to string guitar
stompboxes together. You can even throw something like the boss SYB3
"Bass synth" pedal in the loop for good measure. the reissue EH
Mircosynth also does terribly wrong things ot an original signla and
might be worth checking out.

I wrote a detailed post on using FX with guitar a while ago. You can
read it from this link:

http://www.voicenet.com/~legion/guitarfx.htm

good luck!




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
     HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion
"Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..."
     
Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and
info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more.

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 14 12:42:26 2000
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Gotta agree with Kim here, given that the ideal MIDI guitar control
would be one that feels and behaves like a guitar, but give MIDI output.
After all, keyboard players don't have to relearn how to play the
instrument just to play synths, and neither should guitar players. As a
mostly fingerstyle guitar player, as much as I lust for a MIDI
controller, nothing I have ever played is even close to acceptable. It
has nothing to do with sounds, but with how well the controller itself
works. I actually had a brief discussion with Kim about this at NAMM, as
we both agreed (or at least I got the impression we did) that the only
way to get around some of the basic limitations of a guitar controller
is to wire the frets for initial pitch information, then morph over to
the string vibration for dynamics and other such esoterica. We're
talking about a pretty expensive toy, here, (wiring underneath a
fretboard and the like, possible with segmented frets so each string has
its own trigger is no trivial task) as no pitch to MIDI (or pitch to
voltage) conversion is EVER going to track smoothly and quickly enough
to be more than a curiousity. At least for me, and I've tried just about
everything that's out there at this point.

George

Kim Flint wrote:
> 
> >At 12:02 AM 02/14/2000 -0600, you wrote:
> >>
> >>   Well guitar synth,pretty much my subject, I agree with Kim, forget about
> >>trying to sound like other instruments,I turn my guitar signal into a
> >
> >actually..(correct me please Kim??)-- i feel what's unfair about Kim's
> >response is he IS rating guitar synth via sounds that never will work
> >"well" on them -like sax, trumpet, ac gtr, etc(and indeed-depending on your
> >musical needs, they may)
> >
> >by this formula:
> >
> >a violin sucks-since one don't sound so good doing the intro to 'pinball
> >wizard'
> >
> >a piano sucks-- trying to cop all those bernie worrell lines on
> >'flashlight', or the emerson solo at the end of 'lucky man'
> >
> 
> no, that's absolutely nothing at all like what I was saying. That's just
> what you decided I said so that you could make some other commentary.
> 
> you do recall that I spent 3 years of my engineering career working on what
> was supposed to be the be-all and end-all of guitar synths? When I say they
> all suck, it's a technical commentary on the technology.
> 
> kim
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
> kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
> http://www.annihilist.com/  |

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 14 13:08:43 2000
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From: David Kirkdorffer <DKirkdorffer@exapps.com>
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Has anyone run a regular guitar signal into either of the KORG ER or AR
devices to use their on-board synthing capabilities?

Any words of advice?

David Kirkdorffer

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[George:]
> as no pitch to MIDI (or pitch to voltage) conversion is
> EVER going to track smoothly and quickly enough to be
> more than a curiousity.

I read that the AXON converter uses what is essentially a neural net to
"learn" the characteristics of your instrument, and preempt the usual 1/2
freq. delay in conversion. Other members may be able to give their opinions
on how well this works, but it does pull down the conversion time for the
lower strings (at least on paper). Also, it seems that piezo pickups in the
bridge track better than magnetic (under the strings) ones. The GK-2A
tracks reasonably for an afforable synth solution as long as it's mounted
properly, and you use a pick/plectrum and a nice clean technique. But I
know Bert Jansch uses a MIDI converter of some sort, and gets it to work
for finger-style playing. Anyone know what he's using?

I think there was also a guitar (late 1980s) that bounced an ultrasonic
wave from the bridge up the string, where it reflected off the fret, and
using this it could work out the note for MIDI info. Sensors near the
bridge detected string bending. I think Andy Summers used one. Anyone
remember this, or is it my over-active imagination again?

- John

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 14 13:24:51 2000
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I run guitar and guit synth through an ER-1. It doesn't synthesize per
se. But you can ring modulate the external sound coupled with one of the
percussion sounds. Main musical use is for gating the external sound per
the programmed rhythm along with the percussion synth pattern. Settings
are limited to control of the volume, pan, low boost and decay of the
external sound. 

Its neat having the guitar or whatever be one of the drum machine
voices. Though keyboard sounds like organ or pads, sounds with a
consistent sustain,  are more controllable and traditionally used with
the gating effect, its kind of a trip to have the ER chop up the guitar
rhythms in assorted ways. Advice would be the same as for everything
else in the musical tools category: experiment, and YMMV.

David Kirkdorffer wrote:
> 
> Has anyone run a regular guitar signal into either of the KORG ER or AR
> devices to use their on-board synthing capabilities?
> 
> Any words of advice?
> 
> David Kirkdorffer

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From: "Larry Tremblay" <ltct@concentric.net>
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Subject: Re: beginner guitar synth questions - stompbox DIY
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 13:57:55 -0500
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Legion's post reminded me of some early experiments
with stompbox FX I undertook when I first got into
electronic music.

At the time, since I couldn't afford a "real synthesizer",
I imagined ways of creating an abstract "synth" using the
crappy old stomp boxes of the day, moldering away in pawn
shops and junky music stores. Of course, I could have built
things too, but that's a different story.

I started with a typical monosynth architecture as a guide
to which role each effect would play in my "synth design",
i.e., based on VCO + VCF + VCA, ala Moog, Arp, and Roland.
Basically, a subtractive synthesis architecture.

[For the uninitiated, VCO = 'Voltage-Controlled Oscillator', your
sound/pitch source; VCF = 'Voltage-Controlled Filter', usually
a Low Pass filter, or a combination or Low Pass and High-Pass. You
can think of this as timbre control - how the sound changes, its
character); and finally, VCA = Voltage-Controlled Amplifier, which
controls the volume, loudness and dynamics of your sound. Any one,
or all, of these components may be routed through an Envelope
Generator (EG), which creates the shape of the sound across the time.
The typical VCA has controls for Attack, Decay, Sustain and Release,
hence, EGs are commonly referred to as ADSR, AD, or AR, depending on
the type of EG. For more info on synthesizer theory, search the Web
for "subtractive synthesis".]

So given this type of architecture, it's relatively simple to
categorize various stompboxes under each functional relationship:
either it's a VCO-, VCF-, or VCA-related effect.

My first concept was something like this:
Guit.(VCO)--> Pitch-Shifter (sub-oscillator) --> Envelope Filter --> Rex50
(ADSR) --> Amp

In the VCO category, the Guitar is the pitch source, with a pitch shifter
as a sub-oscillator (commonly found on Roland monosyths). You can also
side-chain a stereo chorus or flanger before or after the pitch-shifter
to fatten up the sound.

In the VCF category, the envelope filter was a crummy Cry Baby Volume/Wah
(and an old 7-band Graphic EQ) to control the overall tone and timbre. The
Wah allowed realtime parameter tweeking ;).

For the VCA section, I used a Yamaha REX50, a little-appreciated
multi-effects box with a nifty ADSR patch I used to control the
dynamics or the output stage. Another wild and useful patch is
the Pan - which behaves like an LFO - also another useful
synth-like function.

Other "synth design" pedals, like envelope followers, phase
shifters, tremelos, etc, add considerable sonic variety to
your bag of tricks. Add a patchbay, and you've got a semi-modular
psuedo-synth!! :)

Adding a looping rig and the noise-making possibilities become
mind-boggling.

Later,
- Larry

-----Original Message-----
From: legion <legion@voicenet.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Date: Monday, February 14, 2000 12:32 PM
Subject: Re: beginner guitar synth questions


>> >>> custom sounds and not trying to sound like a bad timpani or saxophone
>> >>> player, you'll be much happier!
>> >>Ok, that's an intriguing idea which I'm going to have to look into.
What
>> >>specific analog synths should I check out?
>
>> we are talking about analog synths here, I don't think a piano player is
>> gonna care much about how close the low-pass is to a real minimoog any
more
>> than he'll care the tone of a timpani :-)  It's those analog synth freaks
>> you have to watch out for, but people I know seem to really like the
>> Waldorf Q:  http://www2.waldorf-gmbh.de/products.html
>
>heh.
>
>Well I guess at 50+ synths I qualify as an analog synth freak. i also
>play guitar (straight acoustic or heavily processed electric) and guitar
>synths (Old Roland analog GR series, midi guitar, etc).
>
>The first question you have to ask your self is do you want to use your
>guitar polyphonically (Ie; more than one note as in chords and such) or
>for simple leads and monophonic lines.
>
>Unless you are using a dedicated guitar synth or midi interface all the
>effects boxes and analog synths are monophonic. Even the polyphonic
>synths will only allow you to play into the filter and such so you're
>not playing the synth itself but merely using it as a processor.
>
>While I agrere the Waldorf Q is an amazing synth that is well of $2500US
>and it still will only let you process through it not play it.
>
>there are a few old analogs with Pitch convertors in them that actually
>track the guitar note coming in to oscillators inside the synth and this
>might be fun if you're looking to do a lead type thing. The korg MS20
>does this as does thre Roland SVC355. both are rare and very $$ of
>course. The Korg X911 "Guitar synth" is a msall box geared towards
>mangling spounds but doesn't track too well (actually nonoe of the older
>analog pitch convertors track well.)
>
>If you just want to mangle the guitar signal beyond comprehension then
>something as basic asthe Waldorf 4pole filter box might work. you could
>also go the completely other route and pick up a vintage modular like
>the arp 2600 or EMS VCS3 (as used by Pink Floyd!) for well over $2k
>again.
>
>The cheapest and easier route ti as someone said to string guitar
>stompboxes together. You can even throw something like the boss SYB3
>"Bass synth" pedal in the loop for good measure. the reissue EH
>Mircosynth also does terribly wrong things ot an original signla and
>might be worth checking out.
>
>I wrote a detailed post on using FX with guitar a while ago. You can
>read it from this link:
>
>http://www.voicenet.com/~legion/guitarfx.htm
>
>good luck!
>
>
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>     HELP WANTED PRODUCTIONS - Http://www.voicenet.com/~legion
>"Bringing you the best in Organic Electronic music since we started..."
>
>Home of the Unusual Instrument and Recording Gallery with pictures and
>info of Tube recorders, Omnichords, weird guitars, Casios, and more.
>
>

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Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
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I checked out the Axon AX-100 at NAMM. If you use a pick, it's probably
the best choice of what's out there currently, but it can't track
fingerstyle playing at all, since their technology is based on reading
the transient from the pick attack. I was seriously considering buying
one, but my existing IVL Pitchrider tracks better than the Axon for my
style (not that it's all that great either). The only MIDI converter I
know of that's supposed to work for fingerstyle guitar is the Shadow
system that's designed for acoustics (aimed at nylon string players,
primarily). 

George

johnmcc@aldiscon.ie wrote:
> 
> [George:]
> > as no pitch to MIDI (or pitch to voltage) conversion is
> > EVER going to track smoothly and quickly enough to be
> > more than a curiousity.
> 
> I read that the AXON converter uses what is essentially a neural net to
> "learn" the characteristics of your instrument, and preempt the usual 1/2
> freq. delay in conversion. Other members may be able to give their opinions
> on how well this works, but it does pull down the conversion time for the
> lower strings (at least on paper). Also, it seems that piezo pickups in the
> bridge track better than magnetic (under the strings) ones. The GK-2A
> tracks reasonably for an afforable synth solution as long as it's mounted
> properly, and you use a pick/plectrum and a nice clean technique. But I
> know Bert Jansch uses a MIDI converter of some sort, and gets it to work
> for finger-style playing. Anyone know what he's using?
> 
> I think there was also a guitar (late 1980s) that bounced an ultrasonic
> wave from the bridge up the string, where it reflected off the fret, and
> using this it could work out the note for MIDI info. Sensors near the
> bridge detected string bending. I think Andy Summers used one. Anyone
> remember this, or is it my over-active imagination again?
> 
> - John

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 14 19:23:37 2000
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 15:41:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Bret <echoplex@yahoo.com>
Subject: OT: beginner guitar synth questions-
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
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--- Peter Shindler <shindler@mediaone.net> wrote:
> Also, is it the box or the pickup that's responsible
> for the quality of the
> tracking?  Is the GK-2A the only pickup I'll need to
> look at?
> 
Before Kim kills this OT thread, it is the string
gauge that is responsible ;-}

Peter's query has created much response about
tracking, pickups, sounds, and midi for guitar.  If I
had read these responses 3 years ago I would have
never tried a midi guitar.  Thank goodness I tried it
myself.  

Does midi guitar suck?  For someone with refined needs
like Kim, apparently.  I didn't know any better, and
decided for myself that I like playing midi guitar. 
So much so that I removed all 3 of the standard
pickups from my Ibanez solid body guitar.  It only has
an internal GK-2a pickup now.  

Are piezos clearly better than a GK-2a? In my (and
others) experience no.  Roland VG-8 users have noted
string to string crosstalk problems with the RMC
piezos.  Piezos have much more low frequency content
on initial attack that can be a problem when using
them with Roland VG-8, unless you install a low pass
filter in the VG-8 (yes I know a vg-8 is not midi). 
Go read the vg-8 mailing list for more details. 

What effects tracking?  
1.The guitar strings 
2.the physical characteristics of the guitar body,
neck, bridge etc 
3.The pickup design, mount and installation
4.The analog input filters and pitch to midi converter
in the box (axon, gr-30 etc) 

and most importantly:
5.  How you have set the input control parameters of
that box 
6.  interacting with How you play
7.  and How you listen

You cannot acurately judge a midi guitar system, or
vg-8 without insuring proper pickup installation, and
hex input setup adjusted to work with YOUR playing
style.  

You may have to modify Your playing style to track
more accurately, to get the sound out when and how you
intend.  That of course is true of acoustic
instruments as well.  

I was surprised to find out from the various emails
that fingerpicking doesn't work with midi guitars. 

I never use a pick on midi guitar, I use my thumb and
3 fingers.  Jee, I thought it worked.  I guess I just
fooled myself for the past 3 years.  What do I know, I
have only played guitar for 32 years?  I probably
don't even know how to play the guitar, I have just
fooled myself into thinking that.

IMO, playing cleanly triggered midi guitar using
finger picking is much like playing clean, precise
finger picked acoustic guitar.  If you play sloppy, it
sounds sloppy.  But I am no expert player.

And I know I am a fool because I actually enjoy some
the the sounds on the Roland GR-09 like sax, hammond
organ, and god fobid, trumpet.  Do I sound like Ben
Webster, Jimmy Smith or Miles? Hell no, was I supposed
to?  I sound like me, a fool having fun with sounds. 
When I play (an actual) acoustic guitar I don't sound
like Django either.

Peter has specific desires of creating sounds on the
pc, and using midi guitar to control them.  As noted
by others the best path for that is probably a high
grade midi controller (axon), controlling a sound
source that allows this pc dump.  

As noted, Roland GR-09, GR-30 don't allow that.  And
yes, the midi output on a gr-09 and gr-30 are slower
than using the internal voices.  In spite of that, I
enjoy using the midi out of my gr-09.  I use it to:
1.  Input to the oberheim drummer so that it interacts
with my playing.
2.  Input to the oberheim cyclone to arpeggiate the
midi note stream before I route the midi stream back
into the gr-09 voices
3.  Input to a kenton midi to cv convertor to control
one or several moog synths which are used as either
   a.complete synth (vco, vcf, adsr, adsr, lfo.....)
or b.input sound from either the vg-8 or gr-09 into
the synth filter and envelope generators and other
modulators.  I find that a complex sound like a sax is
much more fun to modulate than a square wave or
triangle wave oscillator (even if that ocs has dynamic
waveshapes).

While the Roland vg-8 is not midi, it is a fun, and
highly tweekable sound source (hexaphonic modifier)
that reacts to and expresses subtleties of playing in
a most wonderful way.  I use the vg-8, and the gr-09
individually and in combination (using roland
us-20)for a vaste amount of tone colors, and subtle,
(almost) instant response (vg-8) when that is
required.  

It sucks how much fun I am having with this gawd awful
midi guitar, fake instrument sounds, and slow midi
control, looped into multiple echoplexes with old
codec chips.

And the answer to the most important question?
I use .10's, or are they .11's?
bret  

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com

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At 08:44 AM 2/14/00 EST, dt wrote:
>i think i'll have a double-order of the radical-innovation-thingie (!edp!)
w/a healthy buncha old-tech on the side, puhleez.....
>
Mmmmm, sounds good. Waiter, I'd like the Eclectic Platter special too, please.
That comes with tubes AND chips, right?

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From: Hawkeye255@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 22:10:19 EST
Subject: Re: beginner guitar synth questions
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<< remember the attack on Dylan for 'going electric' >>

Dylan went electric!?!!!  when????

Seriously, a guitar synth can do some wonderful things.  The first one I had 
was the now dirt cheap, but a little hard-to-find Yamaha G10--kinda looked 
like a long green pickle with strings.  Worked perfect for laying down pads 
and bass lines in particular and some very neat, weird percussion.  Tracked 
just fine and transmitted over midi well.  The new guitar synths are very 
good too, but really no better than the "old' G10.  Each string could be 
assigned a different midi channel which was very cool for those really dense 
pads.  One thing I learned over the years with many guitar synths is that I 
would always shut off aftertouch and pitch bend on a midi sound module 
controlled by a guitar synth unless I had a specific reason for needing it.  
One way to help your system respond more accurately to what you're actually 
playing.  In think the best Roland made was the GR1 (w/expansion) and the 
truly magical VG-8.

    hawkeye
Dylan really did go electric???

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From: "Alan Barnard" <alan@kiene.com>
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Subject: RE: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 10:35:51 -0800
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Hi Guys,

I don't purport to know anything about guitar synthesizers, but I thought my
perspective might be of interest in regards to this thread. I am a
drummer/percussionist who has played traditional drum kit and percussion in
a variety of styles for over 25 years. Approximately two years ago I gave up
these traditional instruments for a Zendrum. It has taken two years of
concerted effort to develop a viable technique for this new instrument. It
has been a very interesting process. I pretty much had to re-learn my chops
from the ground up - tapping on a Zendrum is nothing like cracking a rimshot
with the butt of a 2B stick or stomping on a DW pedal.  Yet in giving this
up, I've gained access to a virtually infinite array of sounds and textures
and discovered looping in the process! And I must say that I've had a
helluva lot of fun in the process. For years digital drummers have been
screaming for a "rubber pad" drumkit that feels and sounds like "real"
drums. Somehow it seems like they're missing the point completely. These are
new instruments with their own advantages and disadvantages. The magic lies
in taking full advantage and overcoming the obstacles...

Just my humble opinion...

Best regards,   Alan.
________________________________
Alan Barnard
Digital Drummer/Percussionist
e-drums@pacbell.net
http://www.kiene.com/epercussion

> -----Original Message-----
> From: George Van Wagner [mailto:vanwag@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2000 9:23 AM
> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
>
>
> Gotta agree with Kim here, given that the ideal MIDI guitar control
> would be one that feels and behaves like a guitar, but give MIDI output.
> After all, keyboard players don't have to relearn how to play the
> instrument just to play synths, and neither should guitar players.
>

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Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
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<< These are new instruments with their own advantages and disadvantages. The 
magic lies  in taking full advantage and overcoming the obstacles... >>

well said, Alan

    hawkeye

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<< I think there was also a guitar (late 1980s) that bounced an ultrasonic 
wave from the bridge up the string, where it reflected off the fret, and 
using this it could work out the note for MIDI info >>

The Yamaha G10 Guitar Synth (Big Green Pickle) worked that way.  It's stings 
were all 16's, all tuned to G.  Tracked pretty damn well,  Better than the 
last Roland Strat I played.  It is a two-part deal.  One the pickle, the 
other a rackmount G10A conversion module.  No sounds of it's own, but used to 
drive other modules, worked great.
    hawkeye
ps: "all guitar synths suck" according to Kim.  According to me and a few 
thousand others, that's just not the case.  They do have a place in a sound 
'arsenal'.  Of course, I regret that I'm not an engineer that knows 
everything, absolutely. ;-)

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Subject: RE: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
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(snipp..)
>and discovered looping in the process! And I must say that I've had a
>helluva lot of fun in the process. For years digital drummers have been
>screaming for a "rubber pad" drumkit that feels and sounds like "real"
>drums. Somehow it seems like they're missing the point completely. These are
>new instruments with their own advantages and disadvantages. The magic lies
>in taking full advantage and overcoming the obstacles...
>
>Just my humble opinion...>Best regards,   Alan.


AHhh..alan has put in words what i apparently can't.

"an ostrich is not a lion"

thanks alan....key sentence..."Somehow it seems like they're missing the
point completely."
LIve Looping!!! Jfk's Lsd Ufo .......Fri FEB 18- 8pm - Knitting Factory -
Knitactive Soundstage
http://www.knittingfactory.com- webcast

ZAPPA Tribute--Project Object with IKE WILLIS--March /April 2000 tourdates
at  http://www.projectobject.com

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Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
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At 11:22 AM 2/14/00 -0800, you wrote:
>I checked out the Axon AX-100 at NAMM. If you use a pick, it's probably
>the best choice of what's out there currently, but it can't track
>fingerstyle playing at all, since their technology is based on reading

The Yamaha G50 uses Axon's neural net technology and the few bass players
I've talked to who have tried it with Yamaha's pickup for bass guitars were
impressed with it (they all play bass fingerstyle).

Paolo

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Subject: NewsFlash.....Guitar synth=Guitar Synth and Guitar=Guitar
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At 09:23 AM 02/14/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Gotta agree with Kim here, given that the ideal MIDI guitar control
>would be one that feels and behaves like a guitar, but give MIDI output.


uhh..if one wants something that in ALL ways acts like a guitar.....

Hey--Why not reach for a Guitar?? sounds ez to me

After all, keyboard players don't have to relearn how to play the
>instrument just to play synths, 

yes-- but they have to plug them into electrical outlets--and they can't
reach in and put cool stuff in the strings like Cage....

so--should a piano player weep and moan and never use a keyboard controlled
synth???


and --- i or anyone else open wanting to use guitar synth doesnt have to
'relearn' guitar  either..

I guess abercrombie, dimeola, mclaughlin and metheny are either hacks or
have low standards. All use gtr/synth regularly-and seem to treat them
as...guitar synth..not guitars



sheesh.why all this cognitive dissonance??
LIve Looping!!! Jfk's Lsd Ufo .......Fri FEB 18- 8pm - Knitting Factory -
Knitactive Soundstage
http://www.knittingfactory.com- webcast

ZAPPA Tribute--Project Object with IKE WILLIS--March /April 2000 tourdates
at  http://www.projectobject.com

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>bridge track better than magnetic (under the strings) ones. The GK-2A
>tracks reasonably for an afforable synth solution as long as it's mounted
>properly, and you use a pick/plectrum and a nice clean technique. But I
>know Bert Jansch uses a MIDI converter of some sort, and gets it to work
>for finger-style playing. Anyone know what he's using?


who cares?? isn't it impossible???
LIve Looping!!! Jfk's Lsd Ufo .......Fri FEB 18- 8pm - Knitting Factory -
Knitactive Soundstage
http://www.knittingfactory.com- webcast

ZAPPA Tribute--Project Object with IKE WILLIS--March /April 2000 tourdates
at  http://www.projectobject.com

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right on

you mean you enjoy this godawful thing???

impossible.

>Does midi guitar suck?  For someone with refined needs
>like Kim, apparently.  

yes--and KIm-- it's very cool that YOU don't enjoy them. My earlier point
was that you should let a newbie get some info without so much of a value
judgement...

and re: your comment about my desire for 'commentary"..what are we here for???




>I never use a pick on midi guitar, I use my thumb and
>3 fingers.  Jee, I thought it worked.  I guess I just
>fooled myself for the past 3 years.  What do I know, I
>have only played guitar for 32 years?  I probably
>don't even know how to play the guitar, I have just
>fooled myself into thinking that.


apparently so(he he heh :)

>And I know I am a fool because I actually enjoy some
>the the sounds on the Roland GR-09 like sax, hammond
>organ, and god fobid, trumpet.  Do I sound like Ben
>Webster, Jimmy Smith or Miles? Hell no, was I supposed
>to?  I sound like me, a fool having fun with sounds. 
>When I play (an actual) acoustic guitar I don't sound
>like Django either.
>

sounds crazy to me.



>While the Roland vg-8 is not midi, it is a fun, and
>highly tweekable sound source (hexaphonic modifier)


no..it's not..it just sucks and you must hate it, no??
>

>It sucks how much fun I am having with this gawd awful
>midi guitar, fake instrument sounds, and slow midi
>control, looped into multiple echoplexes with old
>codec chips.
>

there ya go!!
LIve Looping!!! Jfk's Lsd Ufo .......Fri FEB 18- 8pm - Knitting Factory -
Knitactive Soundstage
http://www.knittingfactory.com- webcast

ZAPPA Tribute--Project Object with IKE WILLIS--March /April 2000 tourdates
at  http://www.projectobject.com

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Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
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I haven't kept up on this thread so forgive me if the following has already
been mentioned. You guys have already established that the guitar will
hardly allow for zero latency pitch tracking in a 'conventional' instrument.
Now, if you're going to play MIDI guitar IMHO I think you have to let go of
the notion of the 'guitar' and start thinking of it as an entirely new
instrument. Although the playing techniques may be similar for both, the
instruments (mentally) are not. They require a different approach.
Technology obviously also forces us to take that different approach, but
from this point of view, should it not seem logical that the instruments be
unique not only mentally but physically i.e. the MIDI controller and the
guitar be two separate instruments? The question is not only, *can* a guitar
also be made into a (satisfactory) MIDI guitar, but *should* it be?
I was wondering if anybody has tried Harvey Starr's instruments or has
anything to say about his approach to the guitar/MIDI guitar problem? I've
never played one of them:

http://www.catalog.com/starrlab/

thanks for listening
Mark



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Subject: Re: beginner guitar synth questions
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At 10:10 PM 02/14/2000 EST, you wrote:
><< remember the attack on Dylan for 'going electric' >>
>
>Dylan went electric!?!!!  when????
>
>Seriously, a guitar synth can do some wonderful things.  The first one I had 
>was the now dirt cheap, but a little hard-to-find Yamaha G10--kinda looked 
>like a long green pickle with strings.  Worked perfect for laying down pads 
>and bass lines in particular and some very neat, weird percussion.  Tracked 
>just fine and transmitted over midi well.  

no it DIDN'T.You, too, are clearly hallucinating


>playing.  In think the best Roland made was the GR1 (w/expansion) and the 
>truly magical VG-8.


i agree--and thats where i started-- hoping to recommend avery useful unit
to a newbie

a big mistake of roland was to kill the GR1. They always run to the next
'better' models too fast!!!


and-- the Dylan thing is only a rumor. I think he's gonna convert back to
acoustic!!
LIve Looping!!! Jfk's Lsd Ufo .......Fri FEB 18- 8pm - Knitting Factory -
Knitactive Soundstage
http://www.knittingfactory.com- webcast

ZAPPA Tribute--Project Object with IKE WILLIS--March /April 2000 tourdates
at  http://www.projectobject.com

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Subject: Guitar synths for sale..
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BTW--i see four roland GR1 guitars synthsfor sale on ebay


all between $350 and $500 , most incl. the GK2 or 2A pickup

search "roland gr 1"

peace

ps--this unit is GREAT..remember--it's the only 1990s guitar synth that
lets you tweak LIVE--on the FLY

-resonance
-reverb, chorus parameters
-cutoff
-much more--on each sound.also a built in squencer--which they dumped in
later models..

this unit was SRP $1500 in 1992 !!!



LIve Looping!!! Jfk's Lsd Ufo .......Fri FEB 18- 8pm - Knitting Factory -
Knitactive Soundstage
http://www.knittingfactory.com- webcast

ZAPPA Tribute--Project Object with IKE WILLIS--March /April 2000 tourdates
at  http://www.projectobject.com

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At 11:38 PM 2/14/00 +0100, Mark Kunzmann wrote:
>Technology obviously also forces us to take that different approach, but
>from this point of view, should it not seem logical that the instruments be
>unique not only mentally but physically i.e. the MIDI controller and the
>guitar be two separate instruments? The question is not only, *can* a guitar
>also be made into a (satisfactory) MIDI guitar, but *should* it be?

I suspect these are questions that only you can answer for yourself. :)
I've been off and on this list for a couple of years and virtually
everybody here has his/her own goals and interests that somehow have
something to do with looping. :)

>I was wondering if anybody has tried Harvey Starr's instruments or has
>anything to say about his approach to the guitar/MIDI guitar problem? I've

I have.  I grew up in San Diego, CA and Starrlabs is in downtown SD.
Harvey is a nice guy - last time I visited him at his shop he was working
on a "honeycomb" MIDI controller special-ordered by a microtonal composer
in, I think, Chicago - the keys were hexagonal and arranged in such a way
that the playing surface looked like a bent honeycomb.  I haven't met too
many guitar players who can get past the fact that the six strings of the
"neck" are replaced by a 6x24 array of keys.  But once you overcome that
obstacle (if it ever was one for you personally), the Ztars and Zboards
offer a lot of possibilities.  

In a way, the Ztar is the exact opposite of the Roland VG8 and any kind of
guitar synth/MIDI guitar setup in which the behavior and sound of real
strings are translated into signals for synths and MIDI modules.  The
latter attempts (with reasonable success) to superimpose the physical
behavior of the guitar (or bass guitar or tapping instrument such as Stick)
onto synthesizers.  The former gives you a guitar-like interface but
encourages you to try things that totally outside that physical behavior of
real guitars.  A simple example would be playing chords on one "string".
Ztars have evolved to the point that they have begun offering programming
and realtime control options that surpass the capability of most "normal"
(as in organ-like) keyboard controllers.  For example, the current
generation supports true polyphonic aftertouch, which I understand is all
but impossible to find in the current generation of "normal" keyboards.  

Not surprisingly, Ztars are very flexible instruments if you want to try
different "tunings" (I have an acquaintance who configured the lower half
of the neck to be reversed 5ths like a Stick and the upper half to be
straight 4ths) and microtunings.  You can play around with different
microtonal temperaments and switch tonal centers, temperaments, etc. by
hitting control pads.

I guess the short take is that Ztars are not guitars - they are a new class
of instruments that are familiar enough for guitarists to learn to play in
a short amount of time but they can't really be expected to "play" exactly
like guitars anymore than a clarinet "plays" exactly like a saxophone.
Nothing will stop, you of course, from playing "Stairway" on it using
acoustic guitar samples, but... hey I'd think it would be a waste of money
but then again I'm not you... :)

PAolo

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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 22:19:21 -0800
From: Neil Goldstein <ngold@home.com>
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Guitar synths for sale..
References: <fb.23287bb.25da1d9b@aol.com> <3.0.6.32.20000215005414.008bea50@mail.monmouth.com>
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Does the GR-1 trigger midi as well as the GR30? 

 
andre wrote:
> 
> BTW--i see four roland GR1 guitars synthsfor sale on ebay
> 
> all between $350 and $500 , most incl. the GK2 or 2A pickup
> 
> search "roland gr 1"
> 
> peace
> 
> ps--this unit is GREAT..remember--it's the only 1990s guitar synth that
> lets you tweak LIVE--on the FLY
> 
> -resonance
> -reverb, chorus parameters
> -cutoff
> -much more--on each sound.also a built in squencer--which they dumped in
> later models..
> 
> this unit was SRP $1500 in 1992 !!!
> 
> LIve Looping!!! Jfk's Lsd Ufo .......Fri FEB 18- 8pm - Knitting Factory -
> Knitactive Soundstage
> http://www.knittingfactory.com- webcast
> 
> ZAPPA Tribute--Project Object with IKE WILLIS--March /April 2000 tourdates
> at  http://www.projectobject.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 15 02:42:33 2000
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 02:31:19 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Porp61@cs.com, Bmcdevitt@microarts.com
From: Tim Nelson <tcn62@ici.net>
Subject: Re: Stuck in the Middle Problem: Jumpered Jacks/Mailaway
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Hoooooray. The misioncontrolherniamaker is feeling much better.

The problem has been solved, and Mr. Butler's diagnosis wins the prize for
being the closest to the strangeness that was actually going on.

The speaker outs were jumpered to jacks on the side of my rack. The jack
grounds were weakly and intermittently shorting through some metal
components of the rack.

When I attempted to contact Electar*, Gibson Tech Support wanted me to send
the unit away for repair by an authorized service center. Since I wasn't at
all positive the problem was within the amp at all, I really just wanted
some assistance in troubleshooting its use with other equipment. I can
understand Gibson's perspective in wanting to ensure the problem wasn't on
their end with a defective product, but I really didn't want to pay to send
a new, straight-outa-the-box amp away for repair when there probably was
nothing wrong with it, to find a problem with a larger system of which it
was only a part. Gibson's Tech Rep was polite and professional, and I'm not
slamming their service at all, but I feel fortunate for forums such as this
one where a common topic of discussion is the INTERACTION of the various
pieces of gear within our setups, not just manufacturer-specific specs.
It's cool that reps from several different gear-makers can exist
symbiotically on Looper's Delight, enriching the loopcommunity as we mix
and match our electronics, new and old. 

In troubleshooting, I found several other weak links in the system, which
have since been addressed, so in effect my whole speaker system has just
had a tuneup. Sounds pretty good now! Amazing what a little solder, a
vacuum cleaner and some replacement grille screws can do to a club-weary
pair of 12" stage monitors still wearing the dust and grime of their tour
of duty in the Elvis Room, Portsmouth, NH.

Thanks to all who offered advice.

Tim

* Didn't a batch of EDP footswitches come out a while back bearing the
Electar logo? What happened with that, anyway? How many divisions did
Gibson shuffle it around to post-Oberhiem and pre-Trace Elliott? The
manufacturing history of the EDP would make an interesting addition to the
Tools of the Trade page for the EDP, don'cha think?


At 12:53 PM 2/5/00 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 04/02/00 19:42:50 GMT Standard Time, tcn62@ici.net writes:
>
>> amp's mono/bridge switch is in the correct
>>  position, 
>How about the speaker connections, if the -VE outputs aren't both grounded
>then I figure you could get the effect you describe by swapping over the two 
>-VE speaker wires. Then the +VE of one spkr would be connected to the 
>-VE of the wrong channel( &v.v.).
>just an idea mind , have you asked 'Electar'? , bet they'd know straight
away.
>
>Oh , and commiserations with the 'hernia'.
>
>Andy "Rack-too-Large-also" Butler
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 15 02:39:53 2000
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From: "Mats Eriksson (ECS)" <Mats.Eriksson@ecs.ericsson.se>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 08:35:45 +0100
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The major gripe with guitar-synth and "drum synths", are the
triggering speed which is lame if it goes through any MIDI. Any drummer I know says
they have to learn to play the latency time or lag time. When you, after a while, turn
back to regular drums, you don't have to adjust. Same with guitarists.

Any guitar synth player I ve heard sounds like a medium (or poorly) talented keyboard player with
just pads and soundtracks, and, the odd trumpet sounds, i e SLOW ATTACK sounds. 

Gate/Voltage drums triggering are the best (fastest) so far. MIDI ought to be replaced by now.
Hitting a pad, or striking a string, the sound have to come off right on, not 5 ms late,
not 5 ms early, but dead on. That's the problem with all Pitch-to-MIDI conversion today.

/mats

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Barnard [mailto:alan@kiene.com]
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2000 7:36 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: RE: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is


Hi Guys,

I don't purport to know anything about guitar synthesizers, but I thought my
perspective might be of interest in regards to this thread. I am a
drummer/percussionist who has played traditional drum kit and percussion in
a variety of styles for over 25 years. Approximately two years ago I gave up
these traditional instruments for a Zendrum. It has taken two years of
concerted effort to develop a viable technique for this new instrument. It
has been a very interesting process. I pretty much had to re-learn my chops
from the ground up - tapping on a Zendrum is nothing like cracking a rimshot
with the butt of a 2B stick or stomping on a DW pedal.  Yet in giving this
up, I've gained access to a virtually infinite array of sounds and textures
and discovered looping in the process! And I must say that I've had a
helluva lot of fun in the process. For years digital drummers have been
screaming for a "rubber pad" drumkit that feels and sounds like "real"
drums. Somehow it seems like they're missing the point completely. These are
new instruments with their own advantages and disadvantages. The magic lies
in taking full advantage and overcoming the obstacles...

Just my humble opinion...

Best regards,   Alan.
________________________________
Alan Barnard
Digital Drummer/Percussionist
e-drums@pacbell.net
http://www.kiene.com/epercussion

> -----Original Message-----
> From: George Van Wagner [mailto:vanwag@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2000 9:23 AM
> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
>
>
> Gotta agree with Kim here, given that the ideal MIDI guitar control
> would be one that feels and behaves like a guitar, but give MIDI output.
> After all, keyboard players don't have to relearn how to play the
> instrument just to play synths, and neither should guitar players.
>


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 15 03:39:34 2000
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From: "samuel" <samu@gi.intercom.es>
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Subject: OT: Yamaha mailing list
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Sorry by the OT.
Do you knnow the existance of some mailing list or other resources about
audio equipment
manufactured by YAMAHA?

I have lotsa problems with SU700 and just want to bomb my questions to the
whole crew to get fast answers...

[If some of you personally own the yamaha su700, please let me know
privately. I'm desperating with this hell-machine!]

Thanks very much in advance


Sam
#ICQ 38770781
Email: samu@findermac.com



From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 15 04:59:38 2000
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 01:53:21 -0800
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
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>ps: "all guitar synths suck" according to Kim.  According to me and a few
>thousand others, that's just not the case.  They do have a place in a sound
>'arsenal'.  Of course, I regret that I'm not an engineer that knows
>everything, absolutely. ;-)

fascinating how many times my one sentence has been distorted and taken out
of context today. I was going to explain my comment and maybe tell you all
some of the neat stuff I learned in
guitar/alternate-controller-research-land, but the whole topic's gotten a
bit rank and vicious for reasons that escaped me. At this point it's more
fun to sit back and see just what it is I might be thinking tomorrow. I'm
sure somebody here will tell me.

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | 


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 15 05:37:47 2000
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 02:30:39 -0800 (PST)
From: John Tidwell <wedgehed@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
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C'mon Kim, pleeze! pleeze! pleeze!
We'll be good. We promise!
We want a story.


--- Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com> wrote:
> I was going to explain my comment
> and maybe tell you all
> some of the neat stuff I learned in
> guitar/alternate-controller-research-land, but the
> whole topic's gotten a
> bit rank and vicious for reasons that escaped me. At
> this point it's more
> fun to sit back and see just what it is I might be
> thinking tomorrow. I'm
> sure somebody here will tell me.
> 
> kim
> 
>
______________________________________________________________________
> Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
> kflint@annihilist.com       |
> http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
> http://www.annihilist.com/  | 
> 
> 
> 

=====
John Tidwell



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 15 09:06:42 2000
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 09:02:19 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: andre <andre@monmouth.com>
Subject: Re: Guitar synths for sale..
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At 10:19 PM 02/14/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>Does the GR-1 trigger midi as well as the GR30? 
>


i feel that it does...and the trade-off of programmability/expandability is
way worth it.

same pickup technology -gk2 or gk-2A


>andre wrote:
>> 
>> BTW--i see four roland GR1 guitars synthsfor sale on ebay
>> 
>> all between $350 and $500 , most incl. the GK2 or 2A pickup
>> 
>> search "roland gr 1"
>> 
>> peace
>> 
>> ps--this unit is GREAT..remember--it's the only 1990s guitar synth that
>> lets you tweak LIVE--on the FLY
>> 
>> -resonance
>> -reverb, chorus parameters
>> -cutoff
>> -much more--on each sound.also a built in squencer--which they dumped in
>> later models..
>> 
>> this unit was SRP $1500 in 1992 !!!
>> 
>> LIve Looping!!! Jfk's Lsd Ufo .......Fri FEB 18- 8pm - Knitting Factory -
>> Knitactive Soundstage
>> http://www.knittingfactory.com- webcast
>> 
>> ZAPPA Tribute--Project Object with IKE WILLIS--March /April 2000 tourdates
>> at  http://www.projectobject.com
>
>
>
LIve Looping!!! Jfk's Lsd Ufo .......Fri FEB 18- 8pm - Knitting Factory -
Knitactive Soundstage
http://www.knittingfactory.com- webcast

ZAPPA Tribute--Project Object with IKE WILLIS--March /April 2000 tourdates
at  http://www.projectobject.com

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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: andre <andre@monmouth.com>
Subject: well put, re gtr synth
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>I guess the short take is that Ztars are not guitars - they are a new class
>of instruments that are familiar enough for guitarists to learn to play in
>a short amount of time but they can't really be expected to "play" exactly
>like guitars anymore than a clarinet "plays" exactly like a saxophone.
>Nothing will stop, you of course, from playing "Stairway" on it using
>acoustic guitar samples, but... hey I'd think it would be a waste of money
>but then again I'm not you... :)
>
>PAolo
>
>


thanks paolo..so again..that seems to be the point,no????

well put
LIve Looping!!! Jfk's Lsd Ufo .......Fri FEB 18- 8pm - Knitting Factory -
Knitactive Soundstage
http://www.knittingfactory.com- webcast

ZAPPA Tribute--Project Object with IKE WILLIS--March /April 2000 tourdates
at  http://www.projectobject.com

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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 09:06:23 EST
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 <A HREF="http://www.yamaha.com/cgi-win/webcgi.exe/Specs/?gGUA00004DG100-212">
Yamaha DG100-212</A> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 15 09:19:23 2000
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 09:16:07 -0500
To: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
From: andre <andre@monmouth.com>
Subject: We're stuck in aLOOPre: guitar synth
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kim


what's [up with YOU???


interesting that you call MY comments a rant---when hmm.. 15-20 other
emails have been parallel to my views...???


interesting too--you have singled ME out for your smei-nasty responses
throughout this all-- 

meanwhile--i notice (unless i snoozed, forgive me)- you have not even
responded to the oodles of people in support of using a guitar  synth for
what it's worth

No comment on the several other supporting emails re: using  a guitar synth
forwhat it's good for,eh???


At 01:38 AM 02/15/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>what on earth got into you anyway? One sentence sends you on a 10 mail rant?
>
>It's just amazing. I remember you did this exact same thing when this topic
>came up a few years ago, while I was having a discussion with somebody else
>about midi architecture and zipi. 


you've just got that condescending, "i know it all" vibe sometimes.
NOTE:sometimes you are very fun to communicate with.!!

You don't bother to understand my point
>at all. Instead you go on some tangent accusing me of all sorts of things
>that I've never said or thought? Great way to win yourself some friends.
>

hmmm. i guess that's the way you wanna see it.can't change that

>I have spent a huge amount of time working on guitar synths, with some of
>the greatest engineers in that field. I could teach you a lot of things
>about how they could be phenomenal instruments, 


again - despite your defensiveness... you don't listen to what I think...i
ALREADY think they are phenomenal instruments...!!!! isn't that clear??sheesh.

and indeed I've even tried
>to tell you about it, about the futures for that instrument that have been
>dreamed and even built. 

thanks, lord kim... but i am well aware of many of the future ideas for
guitar synth -i research these as well..

But you don't want to listen. And the result?
>you'll never have that phenomenal guitar synth instrument because you are
>too busy settling for what you have and not knowing what to ask for. And on
>top of it, you're pissing off the people who might create it for you.
>

who?? You???
LIve Looping!!! Jfk's Lsd Ufo .......Fri FEB 18- 8pm - Knitting Factory -
Knitactive Soundstage
http://www.knittingfactory.com- webcast

ZAPPA Tribute--Project Object with IKE WILLIS--March /April 2000 tourdates
at  http://www.projectobject.com

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From: Loopbozo@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 10:21:13 EST
Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
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Kim,
         Tomorrow you will try to unzubscribe from this list, but fail for 
obvious
reasons.This prediction was channeled using an non-midi aluminum foil hat
which I currently have in development here at Vaporware.com

                                                              B.Helm

                                    

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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 16:11:14 -0800
From: Claude voit <c.voit@vtx.ch>
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Subject: (not so OT)very funny non conventional guitar synth application 
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I've been playing with this concept for sometimes 

make up in you fav seq a one bar, 1/8 notes  random prg change message
pattern that is destinated to your guit synth 
loop it
play in tempo with the click


ROTFL

If you plan the sounds a litle more ahead it even can produce some
beautiful music

its also good to advance the timing of the PCH events a litle to allow
your device to be set at the right time

Have fun

(on se taule ou quoi ?!) (with some heavy swiss french accent)

Claude

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 15 10:38:58 2000
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From: "Larry Tremblay" <ltct@concentric.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>, "Kim Flint" <kflint@annihilist.com>
References: <3.0.6.32.20000215000628.008ce810@mail.monmouth.com><v03102801b4cdde8f4a06@[63.192.37.242]><3.0.6.32.20000214093601.008cb730@mail.monmouth.com><v03102816b4cd59c72b42@[63.192.37.242]><3.0.6.32.20000214003207.008bd100@mail.monmouth.com><005d01bf769e$05c6fae0$0100005a@ne.mediaone.net><v03102812b4cd1b978f7f@[63.192.37.242]> <3.0.6.32.20000215091607.008aa4f0@mail.monmouth.com>
Subject: Re: We're stuck in aLOOPre: guitar synth
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 10:36:25 -0500
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In fairness to Kim, who is an asshole of world renown, ;)
it is difficult sometimes for a know-it-all to be
modest, especially in the midst of so much willful
ignorance.

Unfortunately, the less sophisticated among us
perceive this superiority as condescension.

- Larry T

----- Original Message -----
From: "andre" <andre@monmouth.com>
To: "Kim Flint" <kflint@annihilist.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 9:16 AM
Subject: We're stuck in aLOOPre: guitar synth


> kim
>
>
> what's [up with YOU???
>
>
> interesting that you call MY comments a rant---when hmm.. 15-20 other
> emails have been parallel to my views...???
>
>
> interesting too--you have singled ME out for your smei-nasty responses
> throughout this all--
>
> meanwhile--i notice (unless i snoozed, forgive me)- you have not even
> responded to the oodles of people in support of using a guitar  synth for
> what it's worth
>
> No comment on the several other supporting emails re: using  a guitar
synth
> forwhat it's good for,eh???
>
>
> At 01:38 AM 02/15/2000 -0800, you wrote:
> >what on earth got into you anyway? One sentence sends you on a 10 mail
rant?
> >
> >It's just amazing. I remember you did this exact same thing when this
topic
> >came up a few years ago, while I was having a discussion with somebody
else
> >about midi architecture and zipi.
>
>
> you've just got that condescending, "i know it all" vibe sometimes.
> NOTE:sometimes you are very fun to communicate with.!!
>
> You don't bother to understand my point
> >at all. Instead you go on some tangent accusing me of all sorts of things
> >that I've never said or thought? Great way to win yourself some friends.
> >
>
> hmmm. i guess that's the way you wanna see it.can't change that
>
> >I have spent a huge amount of time working on guitar synths, with some of
> >the greatest engineers in that field. I could teach you a lot of things
> >about how they could be phenomenal instruments,
>
>
> again - despite your defensiveness... you don't listen to what I think...i
> ALREADY think they are phenomenal instruments...!!!! isn't that
clear??sheesh.
>
> and indeed I've even tried
> >to tell you about it, about the futures for that instrument that have
been
> >dreamed and even built.
>
> thanks, lord kim... but i am well aware of many of the future ideas for
> guitar synth -i research these as well..
>
> But you don't want to listen. And the result?
> >you'll never have that phenomenal guitar synth instrument because you are
> >too busy settling for what you have and not knowing what to ask for. And
on
> >top of it, you're pissing off the people who might create it for you.
> >
>
> who?? You???
> LIve Looping!!! Jfk's Lsd Ufo .......Fri FEB 18- 8pm - Knitting Factory -
> Knitactive Soundstage
> http://www.knittingfactory.com- webcast
>
> ZAPPA Tribute--Project Object with IKE WILLIS--March /April 2000 tourdates
> at  http://www.projectobject.com
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 15 10:41:54 2000
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Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
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>>I think there was also a guitar (late 1980s) that bounced an ultrasonic 
>>wave from the bridge up the string, where it reflected off the fret, and 
>>using this it could work out the note for MIDI info

>Seriously, a guitar synth can do some wonderful things.  The first
>one I had was the now dirt cheap, but a little hard-to-find Yamaha 
>G10--kinda > looked like a long green pickle with strings.

Actually I'm a G10 owner and it always looked like a cross between a 
steinberger and a dustbuster to me.  I believe the Beetle Quantar also had 
sonar pickups.

Here's a good description of midi guitars old and new:

http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/mgtr.htm

Not to beat this to death or anything, I find midi guitar fascinating and 
well-disposed to loop music.  Different strokes, though.  It would be 
unfortunate, in my mind, to express an opinion on this matter at the expense 
of another's opinion.  I appreciate Kim's contributions to this list as well 
as others, and it would be a downer to see bad vibes flung around.  Peace?

Mike


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 15 11:24:27 2000
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Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
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>I was going to explain my comment and maybe tell you all
>some of the neat stuff I learned in
>guitar/alternate-controller-research-land

Kim, I've always wanted to learn more about the Gibson MAX. From what I've
heard it was a brilliant system, though I never got to see or play one --
unforunately it didn't last very long.

Mark


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 15 11:24:33 2000
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Before you start crowing about how wonderful the technology is,
howzabout you try the AX-100 for yourself fingerstyle? Then, once you
have an informed, first hand opinion, not hearsay, maybe you can discuss
it. Bass is NOT guitar, as is obvious from what you hear when guitarists
attempt to play bass and vice versa (gross generalization, I know, but
large elements of truth). Or are you trying to tell me that the product
manager at Music Industries, who would have dearly loved to sell me one,
told me that it just doesn't do fingerstyle after I had spent a fair
amount of time trying to coax performance out of it, didn't know what
his product would or wouldn't do?

George

pvallad1@tampabay.rr.com wrote:
> 
> At 11:22 AM 2/14/00 -0800, you wrote:
> >I checked out the Axon AX-100 at NAMM. If you use a pick, it's probably
> >the best choice of what's out there currently, but it can't track
> >fingerstyle playing at all, since their technology is based on reading
> 
> The Yamaha G50 uses Axon's neural net technology and the few bass players
> I've talked to who have tried it with Yamaha's pickup for bass guitars were
> impressed with it (they all play bass fingerstyle).
> 
> Paolo

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 15 11:42:10 2000
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From: "Mats Eriksson (ECS)" <Mats.Eriksson@ecs.ericsson.se>
To: "'Loopers'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Favorite tune for Jam Man or any Loop gear...
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 17:34:06 +0100
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is absolutely 
Ravels Bolero, 
... for guitar!
Just  add, add , add, add, add, add...

First time I got into a loop machine, I did an instant 4 hour version...
however, before each new 32 bar pattern, I tweaked sounds on a Guitar FX box for half an hour before I let it in to the loop....
have fun..:-)


mats

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 15 12:01:26 2000
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From: KRosser414@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:55:41 EST
Subject: Re: guitar synth
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
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 John Abercrombie said that when he turned 50 he gave up two things that were 
bad for his health - smoking and guitar synth

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 15 12:29:43 2000
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From: "David Potter" <papadave55@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: We're stuck in aLOOPre: guitar synth
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 09:10:11 PST
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cut the name calling crap ....remove head from rear end...Om and Out


>From: "Larry Tremblay" <ltct@concentric.net>
>Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>, "Kim Flint" <kflint@annihilist.com>
>Subject: Re: We're stuck in aLOOPre: guitar synth
>Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 10:36:25 -0500
>
>In fairness to Kim, who is an asshole of world renown, ;)
>it is difficult sometimes for a know-it-all to be
>modest, especially in the midst of so much willful
>ignorance.
>
>Unfortunately, the less sophisticated among us
>perceive this superiority as condescension.
>
>- Larry T
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "andre" <andre@monmouth.com>
>To: "Kim Flint" <kflint@annihilist.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 9:16 AM
>Subject: We're stuck in aLOOPre: guitar synth
>
>
> > kim
> >
> >
> > what's [up with YOU???
> >
> >
> > interesting that you call MY comments a rant---when hmm.. 15-20 other
> > emails have been parallel to my views...???
> >
> >
> > interesting too--you have singled ME out for your smei-nasty responses
> > throughout this all--
> >
> > meanwhile--i notice (unless i snoozed, forgive me)- you have not even
> > responded to the oodles of people in support of using a guitar  synth 
>for
> > what it's worth
> >
> > No comment on the several other supporting emails re: using  a guitar
>synth
> > forwhat it's good for,eh???
> >
> >
> > At 01:38 AM 02/15/2000 -0800, you wrote:
> > >what on earth got into you anyway? One sentence sends you on a 10 mail
>rant?
> > >
> > >It's just amazing. I remember you did this exact same thing when this
>topic
> > >came up a few years ago, while I was having a discussion with somebody
>else
> > >about midi architecture and zipi.
> >
> >
> > you've just got that condescending, "i know it all" vibe sometimes.
> > NOTE:sometimes you are very fun to communicate with.!!
> >
> > You don't bother to understand my point
> > >at all. Instead you go on some tangent accusing me of all sorts of 
>things
> > >that I've never said or thought? Great way to win yourself some 
>friends.
> > >
> >
> > hmmm. i guess that's the way you wanna see it.can't change that
> >
> > >I have spent a huge amount of time working on guitar synths, with some 
>of
> > >the greatest engineers in that field. I could teach you a lot of things
> > >about how they could be phenomenal instruments,
> >
> >
> > again - despite your defensiveness... you don't listen to what I 
>think...i
> > ALREADY think they are phenomenal instruments...!!!! isn't that
>clear??sheesh.
> >
> > and indeed I've even tried
> > >to tell you about it, about the futures for that instrument that have
>been
> > >dreamed and even built.
> >
> > thanks, lord kim... but i am well aware of many of the future ideas for
> > guitar synth -i research these as well..
> >
> > But you don't want to listen. And the result?
> > >you'll never have that phenomenal guitar synth instrument because you 
>are
> > >too busy settling for what you have and not knowing what to ask for. 
>And
>on
> > >top of it, you're pissing off the people who might create it for you.
> > >
> >
> > who?? You???
> > LIve Looping!!! Jfk's Lsd Ufo .......Fri FEB 18- 8pm - Knitting Factory 
>-
> > Knitactive Soundstage
> > http://www.knittingfactory.com- webcast
> >
> > ZAPPA Tribute--Project Object with IKE WILLIS--March /April 2000 
>tourdates
> > at  http://www.projectobject.com
> >
> >
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 15 12:44:46 2000
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 09:36:29 -0800
From: "Mike Biffle" <mbiffle@svg.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, papadave55@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: We're stuck in aLOOPre: guitar synth
Resent-Message-ID: <"tMUdk.0.ej1.bxOgu"@rosy.yourwebhost.com>
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Larry's just a mouthpiece for Kim... sort of an anti-PR anarchist wing
of Kim's mailing list intelligence force! (This info is coming from
another well known asshole!)

Anonymously yours,
-Miko

BTW: Where were you Sunday night Mr. Potter!?

>>> "David Potter" <papadave55@hotmail.com> 02/15 9:27 AM >>>
cut the name calling crap ....remove head from rear end...Om and Out

>From: "Larry Tremblay" <ltct@concentric.net>
>Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com 
>To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>, "Kim Flint"
<kflint@annihilist.com>
>Subject: Re: We're stuck in aLOOPre: guitar synth
>Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 10:36:25 -0500
>
>In fairness to Kim, who is an asshole of world renown, ;)
>it is difficult sometimes for a know-it-all to be
>modest, especially in the midst of so much willful
>ignorance.
>
>Unfortunately, the less sophisticated among us
>perceive this superiority as condescension.
>
>- Larry T
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "andre" <andre@monmouth.com>
>To: "Kim Flint" <kflint@annihilist.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 9:16 AM
>Subject: We're stuck in aLOOPre: guitar synth
>
>
> > kim
> >
> >
> > what's [up with YOU???
> >
> >
> > interesting that you call MY comments a rant---when hmm.. 15-20
other
> > emails have been parallel to my views...???
> >
> >
> > interesting too--you have singled ME out for your smei-nasty
responses
> > throughout this all--
> >
> > meanwhile--i notice (unless i snoozed, forgive me)- you have not
even
> > responded to the oodles of people in support of using a guitar 
synth 
>for
> > what it's worth
> >
> > No comment on the several other supporting emails re: using  a
guitar
>synth
> > forwhat it's good for,eh???
> >
> >
> > At 01:38 AM 02/15/2000 -0800, you wrote:
> > >what on earth got into you anyway? One sentence sends you on a
10 mail
>rant?
> > >
> > >It's just amazing. I remember you did this exact same thing when
this
>topic
> > >came up a few years ago, while I was having a discussion with
somebody
>else
> > >about midi architecture and zipi.
> >
> >
> > you've just got that condescending, "i know it all" vibe
sometimes.
> > NOTE:sometimes you are very fun to communicate with.!!
> >
> > You don't bother to understand my point
> > >at all. Instead you go on some tangent accusing me of all sorts
of 
>things
> > >that I've never said or thought? Great way to win yourself some

>friends.
> > >
> >
> > hmmm. i guess that's the way you wanna see it.can't change that
> >
> > >I have spent a huge amount of time working on guitar synths,
with some 
>of
> > >the greatest engineers in that field. I could teach you a lot of
things
> > >about how they could be phenomenal instruments,
> >
> >
> > again - despite your defensiveness... you don't listen to what I

>think...i
> > ALREADY think they are phenomenal instruments...!!!! isn't that
>clear??sheesh.
> >
> > and indeed I've even tried
> > >to tell you about it, about the futures for that instrument that
have
>been
> > >dreamed and even built.
> >
> > thanks, lord kim... but i am well aware of many of the future
ideas for
> > guitar synth -i research these as well..
> >
> > But you don't want to listen. And the result?
> > >you'll never have that phenomenal guitar synth instrument
because you 
>are
> > >too busy settling for what you have and not knowing what to ask
for. 
>And
>on
> > >top of it, you're pissing off the people who might create it for
you.
> > >
> >
> > who?? You???
> > LIve Looping!!! Jfk's Lsd Ufo .......Fri FEB 18- 8pm - Knitting
Factory 
>-
> > Knitactive Soundstage
> > http://www.knittingfactory.com- webcast
> >
> > ZAPPA Tribute--Project Object with IKE WILLIS--March /April 2000

>tourdates
> > at  http://www.projectobject.com 
> >
> >
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com 

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 15 13:01:40 2000
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From: "Mats Eriksson (ECS)" <Mats.Eriksson@ecs.ericsson.se>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 18:55:52 +0100
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Yeah, the direct cable that is.
The triggering from the pads to the "native" unit.
Just try to MIDI it from the unit out to any other module, K2500 or other Drum module;-)
See/hear if there is zero lag...

mats

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Barnard [mailto:alan@kiene.com]
Sent: den 15 februari 2000 16:43
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: RE: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is



> The major gripe with guitar-synth and "drum synths", are the
> triggering speed which is lame if it goes through any MIDI. Any
> drummer I know says
> they have to learn to play the latency time or lag time. When
> you, after a while, turn
> back to regular drums, you don't have to adjust. Same with guitarists.
>

Hi,

I have zero lag with the Zendrum/DM5 combo. I've also found the Roland
V-Drums to be extremely accurate.

Alan.
________________________________
Alan Barnard
Digital Drummer/Percussionist
e-drums@pacbell.net
http://www.kiene.com/epercussion


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 15 13:21:48 2000
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From: "Larry Tremblay" <ltct@concentric.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
References: <20000215171013.82811.qmail@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: We're stuck in aLOOPre: guitar synth
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 13:18:52 -0500
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I guess you missed the facetious sarcasm.
I'll shoot lower next time.

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Potter" <papadave55@hotmail.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: We're stuck in aLOOPre: guitar synth


> cut the name calling crap ....remove head from rear end...Om and Out
>
>
> >From: "Larry Tremblay" <ltct@concentric.net>
> >Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> >To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>, "Kim Flint" <kflint@annihilist.com>
> >Subject: Re: We're stuck in aLOOPre: guitar synth
> >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 10:36:25 -0500
> >
> >In fairness to Kim, who is an asshole of world renown, ;)
> >it is difficult sometimes for a know-it-all to be
> >modest, especially in the midst of so much willful
> >ignorance.
> >
> >Unfortunately, the less sophisticated among us
> >perceive this superiority as condescension.
> >
> >- Larry T
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "andre" <andre@monmouth.com>
> >To: "Kim Flint" <kflint@annihilist.com>
> >Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 9:16 AM
> >Subject: We're stuck in aLOOPre: guitar synth
> >
> >
> > > kim
> > >
> > >
> > > what's [up with YOU???
> > >
> > >
> > > interesting that you call MY comments a rant---when hmm.. 15-20 other
> > > emails have been parallel to my views...???
> > >
> > >
> > > interesting too--you have singled ME out for your smei-nasty responses
> > > throughout this all--
> > >
> > > meanwhile--i notice (unless i snoozed, forgive me)- you have not even
> > > responded to the oodles of people in support of using a guitar  synth
> >for
> > > what it's worth
> > >
> > > No comment on the several other supporting emails re: using  a guitar
> >synth
> > > forwhat it's good for,eh???
> > >
> > >
> > > At 01:38 AM 02/15/2000 -0800, you wrote:
> > > >what on earth got into you anyway? One sentence sends you on a 10
mail
> >rant?
> > > >
> > > >It's just amazing. I remember you did this exact same thing when this
> >topic
> > > >came up a few years ago, while I was having a discussion with
somebody
> >else
> > > >about midi architecture and zipi.
> > >
> > >
> > > you've just got that condescending, "i know it all" vibe sometimes.
> > > NOTE:sometimes you are very fun to communicate with.!!
> > >
> > > You don't bother to understand my point
> > > >at all. Instead you go on some tangent accusing me of all sorts of
> >things
> > > >that I've never said or thought? Great way to win yourself some
> >friends.
> > > >
> > >
> > > hmmm. i guess that's the way you wanna see it.can't change that
> > >
> > > >I have spent a huge amount of time working on guitar synths, with
some
> >of
> > > >the greatest engineers in that field. I could teach you a lot of
things
> > > >about how they could be phenomenal instruments,
> > >
> > >
> > > again - despite your defensiveness... you don't listen to what I
> >think...i
> > > ALREADY think they are phenomenal instruments...!!!! isn't that
> >clear??sheesh.
> > >
> > > and indeed I've even tried
> > > >to tell you about it, about the futures for that instrument that have
> >been
> > > >dreamed and even built.
> > >
> > > thanks, lord kim... but i am well aware of many of the future ideas
for
> > > guitar synth -i research these as well..
> > >
> > > But you don't want to listen. And the result?
> > > >you'll never have that phenomenal guitar synth instrument because you
> >are
> > > >too busy settling for what you have and not knowing what to ask for.
> >And
> >on
> > > >top of it, you're pissing off the people who might create it for you.
> > > >
> > >
> > > who?? You???
> > > LIve Looping!!! Jfk's Lsd Ufo .......Fri FEB 18- 8pm - Knitting
Factory
> >-
> > > Knitactive Soundstage
> > > http://www.knittingfactory.com- webcast
> > >
> > > ZAPPA Tribute--Project Object with IKE WILLIS--March /April 2000
> >tourdates
> > > at  http://www.projectobject.com
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 15 13:38:18 2000
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 10:26:14 -0800
From: "Mike Biffle" <mbiffle@svg.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ltct@concentric.net
Subject: Re: We're stuck in aLOOPre: guitar synth
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Wow... sorry Larry! We're having trouble contacting the hit man! You'd
better lie low for the next few weeks... 

Anon(miko)ymously...

>>> "Larry Tremblay" <ltct@concentric.net> 02/15 10:20 AM >>>
I guess you missed the facetious sarcasm.
I'll shoot lower next time.

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Potter" <papadave55@hotmail.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: We're stuck in aLOOPre: guitar synth


> cut the name calling crap ....remove head from rear end...Om and
Out
>
>
> >From: "Larry Tremblay" <ltct@concentric.net>
> >Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com 
> >To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>, "Kim Flint"
<kflint@annihilist.com>
> >Subject: Re: We're stuck in aLOOPre: guitar synth
> >Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 10:36:25 -0500
> >
> >In fairness to Kim, who is an asshole of world renown, ;)
> >it is difficult sometimes for a know-it-all to be
> >modest, especially in the midst of so much willful
> >ignorance.
> >
> >Unfortunately, the less sophisticated among us
> >perceive this superiority as condescension.
> >
> >- Larry T
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "andre" <andre@monmouth.com>
> >To: "Kim Flint" <kflint@annihilist.com>
> >Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 9:16 AM
> >Subject: We're stuck in aLOOPre: guitar synth
> >
> >
> > > kim
> > >
> > >
> > > what's [up with YOU???
> > >
> > >
> > > interesting that you call MY comments a rant---when hmm.. 15-20
other
> > > emails have been parallel to my views...???
> > >
> > >
> > > interesting too--you have singled ME out for your smei-nasty
responses
> > > throughout this all--
> > >
> > > meanwhile--i notice (unless i snoozed, forgive me)- you have
not even
> > > responded to the oodles of people in support of using a guitar 
synth
> >for
> > > what it's worth
> > >
> > > No comment on the several other supporting emails re: using  a
guitar
> >synth
> > > forwhat it's good for,eh???
> > >
> > >
> > > At 01:38 AM 02/15/2000 -0800, you wrote:
> > > >what on earth got into you anyway? One sentence sends you on a
10
mail
> >rant?
> > > >
> > > >It's just amazing. I remember you did this exact same thing
when this
> >topic
> > > >came up a few years ago, while I was having a discussion with
somebody
> >else
> > > >about midi architecture and zipi.
> > >
> > >
> > > you've just got that condescending, "i know it all" vibe
sometimes.
> > > NOTE:sometimes you are very fun to communicate with.!!
> > >
> > > You don't bother to understand my point
> > > >at all. Instead you go on some tangent accusing me of all
sorts of
> >things
> > > >that I've never said or thought? Great way to win yourself
some
> >friends.
> > > >
> > >
> > > hmmm. i guess that's the way you wanna see it.can't change
that
> > >
> > > >I have spent a huge amount of time working on guitar synths,
with
some
> >of
> > > >the greatest engineers in that field. I could teach you a lot
of
things
> > > >about how they could be phenomenal instruments,
> > >
> > >
> > > again - despite your defensiveness... you don't listen to what
I
> >think...i
> > > ALREADY think they are phenomenal instruments...!!!! isn't
that
> >clear??sheesh.
> > >
> > > and indeed I've even tried
> > > >to tell you about it, about the futures for that instrument
that have
> >been
> > > >dreamed and even built.
> > >
> > > thanks, lord kim... but i am well aware of many of the future
ideas
for
> > > guitar synth -i research these as well..
> > >
> > > But you don't want to listen. And the result?
> > > >you'll never have that phenomenal guitar synth instrument
because you
> >are
> > > >too busy settling for what you have and not knowing what to
ask for.
> >And
> >on
> > > >top of it, you're pissing off the people who might create it
for you.
> > > >
> > >
> > > who?? You???
> > > LIve Looping!!! Jfk's Lsd Ufo .......Fri FEB 18- 8pm -
Knitting
Factory
> >-
> > > Knitactive Soundstage
> > > http://www.knittingfactory.com- webcast
> > >
> > > ZAPPA Tribute--Project Object with IKE WILLIS--March /April
2000
> >tourdates
> > > at  http://www.projectobject.com 
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com 
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 15 14:00:57 2000
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From: magicicada@mindspring.com
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 13:51:46 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Re: We're stuck in aLOOPre: guitar synth
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Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com wrote:
> Andre!....Kim!....To your rooms...NOW!  We won't have any more of thischildish bickering!  And if you don't stop now there will be no pudding for
desert!

Oh man I do not even like guitars. :D



At 09:16 AM 2/15/00 -0500, you wrote:
>kim
>
>
>what's [up with YOU???
>
>
>interesting that you call MY comments a rant---when hmm.. 15-20 other
>emails have been parallel to my views...???
>
>
>interesting too--you have singled ME out for your smei-nasty responses
>throughout this all-- 
>
>meanwhile--i notice (unless i snoozed, forgive me)- you have not even
>responded to the oodles of people in support of using a guitar  synth for
>what it's worth
>
>No comment on the several other supporting emails re: using  a guitar synth
>forwhat it's good for,eh???
>
>
>At 01:38 AM 02/15/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>>what on earth got into you anyway? One sentence sends you on a 10 mail rant?
>>
>>It's just amazing. I remember you did this exact same thing when this topic
>>came up a few years ago, while I was having a discussion with somebody else
>>about midi architecture and zipi. 
>
>
>you've just got that condescending, "i know it all" vibe sometimes.
>NOTE:sometimes you are very fun to communicate with.!!
>
>You don't bother to understand my point
>>at all. Instead you go on some tangent accusing me of all sorts of things
>>that I've never said or thought? Great way to win yourself some friends.
>>
>
>hmmm. i guess that's the way you wanna see it.can't change that
>
>>I have spent a huge amount of time working on guitar synths, with some of
>>the greatest engineers in that field. I could teach you a lot of things
>>about how they could be phenomenal instruments, 
>
>
>again - despite your defensiveness... you don't listen to what I think...i
>ALREADY think they are phenomenal instruments...!!!! isn't that
clear??sheesh.
>
>and indeed I've even tried
>>to tell you about it, about the futures for that instrument that have been
>>dreamed and even built. 
>
>thanks, lord kim... but i am well aware of many of the future ideas for
>guitar synth -i research these as well..
>
>But you don't want to listen. And the result?
>>you'll never have that phenomenal guitar synth instrument because you are
>>too busy settling for what you have and not knowing what to ask for. And on
>>top of it, you're pissing off the people who might create it for you.
>>
>
>who?? You???
>LIve Looping!!! Jfk's Lsd Ufo .......Fri FEB 18- 8pm - Knitting Factory -
>Knitactive Soundstage
>http://www.knittingfactory.com- webcast
>
>ZAPPA Tribute--Project Object with IKE WILLIS--March /April 2000 tourdates
>at  http://www.projectobject.com
>
>


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 15 14:01:01 2000
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From: "Alan Barnard" <alan@kiene.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 07:43:06 -0800
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> The major gripe with guitar-synth and "drum synths", are the
> triggering speed which is lame if it goes through any MIDI. Any
> drummer I know says
> they have to learn to play the latency time or lag time. When
> you, after a while, turn
> back to regular drums, you don't have to adjust. Same with guitarists.
>

Hi,

I have zero lag with the Zendrum/DM5 combo. I've also found the Roland
V-Drums to be extremely accurate.

Alan.
________________________________
Alan Barnard
Digital Drummer/Percussionist
e-drums@pacbell.net
http://www.kiene.com/epercussion

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Andre!....Kim!....To your rooms...NOW!  We won't have any more of this
childish bickering!  And if you don't stop now there will be no pudding for
desert!





At 09:16 AM 2/15/00 -0500, you wrote:
>kim
>
>
>what's [up with YOU???
>
>
>interesting that you call MY comments a rant---when hmm.. 15-20 other
>emails have been parallel to my views...???
>
>
>interesting too--you have singled ME out for your smei-nasty responses
>throughout this all-- 
>
>meanwhile--i notice (unless i snoozed, forgive me)- you have not even
>responded to the oodles of people in support of using a guitar  synth for
>what it's worth
>
>No comment on the several other supporting emails re: using  a guitar synth
>forwhat it's good for,eh???
>
>
>At 01:38 AM 02/15/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>>what on earth got into you anyway? One sentence sends you on a 10 mail rant?
>>
>>It's just amazing. I remember you did this exact same thing when this topic
>>came up a few years ago, while I was having a discussion with somebody else
>>about midi architecture and zipi. 
>
>
>you've just got that condescending, "i know it all" vibe sometimes.
>NOTE:sometimes you are very fun to communicate with.!!
>
>You don't bother to understand my point
>>at all. Instead you go on some tangent accusing me of all sorts of things
>>that I've never said or thought? Great way to win yourself some friends.
>>
>
>hmmm. i guess that's the way you wanna see it.can't change that
>
>>I have spent a huge amount of time working on guitar synths, with some of
>>the greatest engineers in that field. I could teach you a lot of things
>>about how they could be phenomenal instruments, 
>
>
>again - despite your defensiveness... you don't listen to what I think...i
>ALREADY think they are phenomenal instruments...!!!! isn't that
clear??sheesh.
>
>and indeed I've even tried
>>to tell you about it, about the futures for that instrument that have been
>>dreamed and even built. 
>
>thanks, lord kim... but i am well aware of many of the future ideas for
>guitar synth -i research these as well..
>
>But you don't want to listen. And the result?
>>you'll never have that phenomenal guitar synth instrument because you are
>>too busy settling for what you have and not knowing what to ask for. And on
>>top of it, you're pissing off the people who might create it for you.
>>
>
>who?? You???
>LIve Looping!!! Jfk's Lsd Ufo .......Fri FEB 18- 8pm - Knitting Factory -
>Knitactive Soundstage
>http://www.knittingfactory.com- webcast
>
>ZAPPA Tribute--Project Object with IKE WILLIS--March /April 2000 tourdates
>at  http://www.projectobject.com
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 15 15:02:59 2000
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 11:36:50 -0800
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Re: We're stuck in aLOOPre: guitar synth
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At 10:51 AM -0800 2/15/00, magicicada@mindspring.com wrote:
>Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com wrote:
>> Andre!....Kim!....To your rooms...NOW!  We won't have any more of
>>thischildish bickering!  And if you don't stop now there will be no
>>pudding for
>desert!

sorry for that one. It was a private mail which Andre then replied to in
public. I'm *definitely* not interested in seeing this go on any more. :-)

>Oh man I do not even like guitars. :D

I hear ya. the guitars are actually fine, it's just some of the people who
play 'em. ;-)

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | 


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From: Echophazer@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 15:34:08 EST
Subject: Re: beginner guitar synth questions - stompbox DIY
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Hey look! I found one of the few letters where actual information was being 
spread! My only experience with a g-synth came when I was 9 years old. My 
mother bought me a Unisonic (I think that's what it was called) off of the 
home shopping network. Did that thing ever suck! Now though I wish I had it 
back (gone for many years). I think of all the ways it could be put into use 
with the proper filters and effects. At first I hated it because it was a toy 
and wasn't what I meant to get when I asked for an electric guitar. Now I 
would like to see what that horrific thing could be pushed to do. I've heard 
great music come from pots and pans. If you want to express them selves with 
these quirky instruments then by all means challenge yourself. I was brought 
to this forum looking for info on Steve Reich and his tape phase music. I 
really have nothing to do with guitars but I still enjoy reading positive 
information. Lets please bring the discussion group back to the spread of 
knowledge.

Living life above the zero crossing,
One of the many Peters    

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 15 16:33:41 2000
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Subject: Re: beginner guitar synth questions - stompbox DIY
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> Unisonic (I think that's what it was called)

The one with the rubber fretboard, right?

I forget the name of it too, but it was a truly great
piece of crap. A local store was blowing them out for
$100 about 8-10 years ago. A friend and I snagged a couple
of them, hooked them up to a couple cruddy MIDI boxes
(TX81z and FB-01), ran them through the FX, and jammed
out some very cool droney, rhythmics for hours on end!

I wish I still had mine too.

- Larry T

----- Original Message -----
From: <Echophazer@aol.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: beginner guitar synth questions - stompbox DIY


> Hey look! I found one of the few letters where actual information was
being
> spread! My only experience with a g-synth came when I was 9 years old. My
> mother bought me a Unisonic (I think that's what it was called) off of the
> home shopping network. Did that thing ever suck! Now though I wish I had
it
> back (gone for many years). I think of all the ways it could be put into
use
> with the proper filters and effects. At first I hated it because it was a
toy
> and wasn't what I meant to get when I asked for an electric guitar. Now I
> would like to see what that horrific thing could be pushed to do. I've
heard
> great music come from pots and pans. If you want to express them selves
with
> these quirky instruments then by all means challenge yourself. I was
brought
> to this forum looking for info on Steve Reich and his tape phase music. I
> really have nothing to do with guitars but I still enjoy reading positive
> information. Lets please bring the discussion group back to the spread of
> knowledge.
>
> Living life above the zero crossing,
> One of the many Peters
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 15 18:11:25 2000
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Jeez, I can't help but feel partially responsible for starting all this, as
it was my question about guitar synth that opened up this thread... Sorry!

I did find a lot of this stuff useful, though- especially Legion's on-line
essay about really screwing with a guitar signal.  So thanks.

And now I'm considering the purchase of a used EH Microsynth.  Any opinions?


Peter

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> Jeez, I can't help but feel partially responsible for starting all
this, as it was my question about guitar synth that opened up this
thread... Sorry!

You're entirely responsible... the authorities will be waiting
outside your door! It's funny how a simple technical assertion can
challenge us so much... It's the same with DAW latency problems... as
much as we love to mangle and rearrange sounds with computers, the
latency is still crap... Maybe BeOS is going to save us from this, but
again, it's just a statement of fact and not meant to spoil anyone's
party...

> I did find a lot of this stuff useful, though- especially Legion's
on-line essay about really screwing with a guitar signal.  So thanks.

I actually learned a bit more about some items as well. What the
heck... 

> And now I'm considering the purchase of a used EH Microsynth.  Any
opinions? Peter

Yeah... give me back the DFX 94 you bought from me you trouble maker!
8-) (also... check out the Waldorf 4-pole filter)

-Miko

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From: Aaron Schindler <aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com>
Subject: sherman filterbank (OT)
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 "But  you should check out the new and amazing
Sherman Filterbank," -

Can anyone contrast/compare the filterbank to the EH
microsynth? (sorry if this is a stupid question which
reveals the depth of my ignorance) -
Aaron
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com

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Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
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At 07:58 AM 2/15/00 -0800, you wrote:
>Before you start crowing about how wonderful the technology is,
>howzabout you try the AX-100 for yourself fingerstyle? Then, once you

That is a valid point.  I would like to try one for myself, but have not
had the opportunity yet.

>have an informed, first hand opinion, not hearsay, maybe you can discuss

I apologize for not posting from first-hand experience.  I exercise greater
caution in the future in responding to any further posts from you.

Paolo Valladolid

P.S. Try to remember it was not I who posted personal attacks against you
on this thread.  

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  I just can say this: the EH microsynth is like 5% of what the sherman is,



At 03:45 PM 15/02/00 -0800, you wrote:
> "But  you should check out the new and amazing
>Sherman Filterbank," -
>
>Can anyone contrast/compare the filterbank to the EH
>microsynth? (sorry if this is a stupid question which
>reveals the depth of my ignorance) -
>Aaron
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
>http://im.yahoo.com
>
>
>

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Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
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>Not to beat this to death or anything, I find midi guitar fascinating and 
>well-disposed to loop music.  Different strokes, though.  It would be 
>unfortunate, in my mind, to express an opinion on this matter at the expense 
>of another's opinion.  I appreciate Kim's contributions to this list as well 
>as others, and it would be a downer to see bad vibes flung around.  Peace?
>
>Mike

I wholeheartedly concur.  Whether any particular technology, be it clay
drums, MIDI guitar, etc. is useful is entirely up to each individual
musician, because each of us as individuals has his/her own set of goals
and interests.  Maybe we just need to work a little harder at accepting
that not everyone is going to see/feel things exactly the same way.  After
all, a lot of fights both virtual and physical begin because one's
worldview is different from another's.

Paolo

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Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 00 18:26:28 -0800
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From: George Van Wagner <vanwag@earthlink.net>
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I know that it wasn't, and I didn't mean to sound quite so abrupt. Blame 
a busy day at work. My sincere apologies if any offense was taken.

Don't get me wrong. I love the concept of MIDI guitar. The 
implementations, thus far, have not been acceptable to me, those last two 
words being the defining ones. I have no trouble with others struggling 
with the current spate of controllers and learning to work around their 
limitations. More power to them. My personal interest is in making music, 
not in learning the eccentricities of a related, yet vastly different 
instrument than the one I play, and certainly not in altering the way I 
work to accomodate technology. Good technology folds itself into your 
work methods, or at least it should, in my opinion. User interface is 
always the hardest part of design.

George

>At 07:58 AM 2/15/00 -0800, you wrote:
>>Before you start crowing about how wonderful the technology is,
>>howzabout you try the AX-100 for yourself fingerstyle? Then, once you
>
>That is a valid point.  I would like to try one for myself, but have not
>had the opportunity yet.
>
>>have an informed, first hand opinion, not hearsay, maybe you can discuss
>
>I apologize for not posting from first-hand experience.  I exercise greater
>caution in the future in responding to any further posts from you.
>
>Paolo Valladolid
>
>P.S. Try to remember it was not I who posted personal attacks against you
>on this thread.  
>
>

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From: Tim Nelson <tcn62@ici.net>
Subject: Re: sherman filterbank (OT)
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And if you like the Sherman, you'll probably also love the Mutator:

<http://www.cerbernet.co.uk/mutronics/>

At 08:00 PM 2/15/00 -0600, you wrote:
>
>  I just can say this: the EH microsynth is like 5% of what the sherman is,
>
>
>
>At 03:45 PM 15/02/00 -0800, you wrote:
>> "But  you should check out the new and amazing
>>Sherman Filterbank," -
>>
>>Can anyone contrast/compare the filterbank to the EH
>>microsynth? (sorry if this is a stupid question which
>>reveals the depth of my ignorance) -
>>Aaron
>>__________________________________________________
>>Do You Yahoo!?
>>Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
>>http://im.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 15 22:07:36 2000
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 21:34:50 EST
Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
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So what's the best string gauge to use with one?  :)

-jack

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From: "Bill Fox" <billfox@fast.net>
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-----Original Message-----
From: George Van Wagner <vanwag@earthlink.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Date: Monday, February 14, 2000 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is


>Gotta agree with Kim here, given that the ideal MIDI guitar control
>would be one that feels and behaves like a guitar, but give MIDI output.
>After all, keyboard players don't have to relearn how to play the
>instrument just to play synths, and neither should guitar players.

I can't agree with this statement because even keyboard players must learn a
different playing technique for each class of sounds a synth makes.  Most
players ignore this and sound like keyboard players no matter what sound the
synth produces.  Each brass, woodwind, string, and percussion instrument has
its own set of characteristics to which a synthesist must adjust their
playing technique.  This becomes less obvious and perhaps less neccessary
for non-emulative sounds.  To ignore a (well programmed) synth patch's
characteristics vis a vis your playing technique is to miss out on its
individuality.  I do not recommend trying to play a saxophone sound from a
keyboard, MIDI guitar, or even a wind controller, not without understanding
a saxophone's idiosyncrasies.  And even then, without deep programming with
lots of hooks into real-time controls of many sound characteristics, you'll
fall short of the real McCoy.  Just my $0.02 worth.

Bill         billfox@fast.net            http://wdiyfm.org
============================================================
Host of EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show.  Thursdays at
11pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem and 93.9 FM in Easton and
Phillipsburg.  Email me if you wish to submit music for airplay
consideration.

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 15 22:55:16 2000
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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 23:41:42 -0500
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From: Patrick Smith <patrick@his.com>
Subject: The Sherman Filterbank
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It's is a great unit, but pricey. Fortunately I picked up mine used. We use
it all the time in our work in Fingerpaint to color synth patches or grunge
up digital effects. Originally the makers in Belgium would send you a
cassette tape of sounds and melody lines before and after the Filterbank
was applied to give you an idea of it's qualities. I do not know if they
still do this but I have included their web site.

The home of the Sherman Filterbank complete with a copy of the Abuser's
Manual is at:

http://www.ping.be/sherman/


To buy a Filterbank in the USA try:
 But be ready to cough up $800...
http://www.en-port.com/

For more info go to:

http://www.t-v.nl/sherman/numbers.htm

http://www.eurosynthusa.com/sherman.html

http://www.vintagesynth.com/misc/sherman.html

Sound on Sound also do an extensive review a while back which is very
useful if you pick one of these beasts up.


Patrick
                     Fingerpaint's New Release:

                            IN THE LOOP

      ... an intelligent, stimulating mixture of mimimaist spacebeats and
           obscure samples layered upon a hypnotic illbient backdrop.

                       DIGITAL ARTIFACT # 12

                      http://www.fingerpaint.net

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Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 19:46:41 PST
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It's all good!  Respect the diversity.  I love to loop with a mike and a pan 
with water sloshing around in it while I hit the pan with a stick.  Great 
sounds.  Anything goes... everything can lead to a meaningful artful 
experience.  I love hearing all the ways people make sound.  We have a great 
resource to learn from each other and to take our art to unexplored places.  
Take the best and leave the rest.  Om and Out .........papadave


>From: pvallad1@tampabay.rr.com
>Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
>Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 20:56:44 -0500
>
> >Not to beat this to death or anything, I find midi guitar fascinating and
> >well-disposed to loop music.  Different strokes, though.  It would be
> >unfortunate, in my mind, to express an opinion on this matter at the 
>expense
> >of another's opinion.  I appreciate Kim's contributions to this list as 
>well
> >as others, and it would be a downer to see bad vibes flung around.  
>Peace?
> >
> >Mike
>
>I wholeheartedly concur.  Whether any particular technology, be it clay
>drums, MIDI guitar, etc. is useful is entirely up to each individual
>musician, because each of us as individuals has his/her own set of goals
>and interests.  Maybe we just need to work a little harder at accepting
>that not everyone is going to see/feel things exactly the same way.  After
>all, a lot of fights both virtual and physical begin because one's
>worldview is different from another's.
>
>Paolo
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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>Hitting a pad, or striking a string, the sound have to come off right on,
not 5 ms late,
>not 5 ms early, but dead on. That's the problem with all Pitch-to-MIDI
conversion today.
>
>/mats
[snip]
>these traditional instruments for a Zendrum. It has taken two years of

A point of clarification.  The Zendrum does not use pitch-to-MIDI
conversion.  It is a MIDI keyboard controller for percussionists just like
the Ztar is a MIDI "keyboard" for guitarists.

Paolo


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb 16 00:55:17 2000
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 14:49:39 +0900
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From: Sunao Inami <cave@pop1.osk.3web.ne.jp>
Subject: Live streaming show tomorrow
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Hi,

This is our Netcast live info.

"bottom awareness"
17th Feb
AM6:00 GMT
music with practice in creative dancers from Japan

also,opening act:
synth solo performance (use only Doepfer modules)
17th Feb
AM4:30 GMT

Visit to:
http://www.cavestudio.org/ba/

note:
Real Player 5.0 or greater and over 28.8k connection required.

  Regards

  Sunao Inami
http://www.cavestudio.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb 16 02:32:41 2000
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From: "Javier Miranda V." <gnominus@earthling.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Akai Headrush review
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 23:24:53 -0800
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  | options) will be put through it's paces by a dedicated loophead.
You meant "...will be put through its paces by..."

Looking forward to reading the review...

  | -----Original Message-----
  | From: K. Douglas Baldwin [mailto:dbaldwin@suffolk.lib.ny.us]
  | Sent: Monday 28 June 1999 10:55 AM
  | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com; Loopers-Delight-d@annihilist.com
  | Subject: Akai Headrush review
  |
  | -This is way behind the curve, but I thought you'd all like to
  | know that the
  | Akai Headrush (and other Akai pedals) will finally be reviewed
  | in "Guitar"
  | magazine (the U.S. publication formerly known as "Guitar for
  | the Practicing
  | Musician") by yours truly. There were so many postings about a month ago
  | (which I have kept for reference) that I'm sure more was
  | covered then than
  | can fit in a relatively short magazine review. But rest assured
  | it (and the
  | other pedals, which look very interesting, with lots of "expression"
  | options) will be put through it's paces by a dedicated loophead.
  |     Any updates on use, problems to look for, etc. will be appreciated.
  |
  |

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb 16 03:50:58 2000
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 09:50:49 +0000
From: Olivier Malhomme <malhomme@vete.ucl.ac.be>
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Yes. I am sorry to insist. Recent threads about Fizmo led me unabvle ti
find anything with convetionnal search engines.
I am trying to find desperatly one of these in the $200-400 range. But I
couldn't find any, at any price range.

Since I live in europe, i'm not going to test all mars/guiatr center
phone line.
Any help, address, would be greatly appreciated...


Olivier Malhomme

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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 09:47:19 +0000
From: Olivier Malhomme <malhomme@vete.ucl.ac.be>
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"tweak sounds. Skip the sample triggering thing if you are doing your
own
>custom sounds and not trying to sound like a bad timpani or saxophone
>player, you'll be much happier!


see-- this is your, and other people's constant mistake--- i for one ,
use
sounds like that 1% of the time !! it's not what works well....

guitar synth is PERFECT for setting up aquick bassline loop..or just
getting a  nice cloudy JX-3p or oberheim pad behind some guitar
loops.....

Here we go agaiin indeed....
Not to mention  that comparing a cello line played on a guitar and
played on a keyboard is going to make you laugh.
Guitar is the perfect controller for strings and woodwinds (to me). And
yest, most of thge time I also don't use poor sax samples to make my
solo "fly".

I'd rather use a good Rhodes bank :-)

Olivier

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From: johnmcc@aldiscon.ie
Subject: david torn stuff
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Hi all,

Just to let you all know, there is now a DT club over @ Yahoo

    http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/davidtorncell

And there is a link to this, and to an abridged interview with DT about
eMagic @

    http://www.gaalore.com/davidtorn.nsf

ATB,
John

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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 04:22:45 -0800
From: lance glover <baumhaus@earthlink.net>
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Potter wrote:

> It's all good!  Respect the diversity.  I love to loop with a mike and a pan
> with water sloshing around in it while I hit the pan with a stick.  Great
> sounds.

best part is no tracking problems w/ the right stick...

*but seriously* its (it's) good to see a positive addition to this thread.


lance g.

ps i've got major leaks in my bldg. due to heavy rains. lotsa water sloshing
around in pans. got one looping now  :-)



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From: "Mats Eriksson (ECS)" <Mats.Eriksson@ecs.ericsson.se>
To: "'Loopers'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RackPack BackPack?
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:13:05 +0100
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Is there anyone who knows of any manuufacturer who makes a soft case
which you can pack your racks in (2 units high) with straps on, to put it on your back?

I need it for my Lexicon Jam Man and Oberheim Echoplex. You should be able
to "run" them from there. I e, just unzipping the front and back, plug in and then have a go.  


regards Mats

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Subject: Re: Re:OH NO! Fizmo again!!!
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 09:47:37 -0500
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Try Musicians Friend. www.musiciansfriend.com

They advertised them at blow-out prices last month.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Olivier Malhomme" <malhomme@vete.ucl.ac.be>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 4:50 AM
Subject: Re:OH NO! Fizmo again!!!


> Yes. I am sorry to insist. Recent threads about Fizmo led me unabvle ti
> find anything with convetionnal search engines.
> I am trying to find desperatly one of these in the $200-400 range. But I
> couldn't find any, at any price range.
> 
> Since I live in europe, i'm not going to test all mars/guiatr center
> phone line.
> Any help, address, would be greatly appreciated...
> 
> 
> Olivier Malhomme
> 
> 

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To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 17:00:21 +0100
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Given the vast sonic possibilities of the synth today,
a keyboard seems the least expressive controller. It is just the
easiest to build, technically. Keyboardist could never before BEND PITCH.
Guitarists could. /mats

-----Original Message-----
From: Travis Hartnett [mailto:hartne.t@apple.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 4:55 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is


I'd have to strongly disagree.

The other day I used a guitar synth that sounded horrible if I played more
than one note at a time (unless I played fifths or octaves), greatly
decreased my available dynamics and also required that I carefully mute my
not-played strings to prevent it from producing a horrible squalling sound
all by itself.  Oh wait, that was a distortion box...

TH


> 
>> Gotta agree with Kim here, given that the ideal MIDI guitar control
>> would be one that feels and behaves like a guitar, but give MIDI output.
>> After all, keyboard players don't have to relearn how to play the
>> instrument just to play synths, and neither should guitar players.


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Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
From: Travis Hartnett <hartne.t@apple.com>
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I'd have to strongly disagree.

The other day I used a guitar synth that sounded horrible if I played more
than one note at a time (unless I played fifths or octaves), greatly
decreased my available dynamics and also required that I carefully mute my
not-played strings to prevent it from producing a horrible squalling sound
all by itself.  Oh wait, that was a distortion box...

TH


> 
>> Gotta agree with Kim here, given that the ideal MIDI guitar control
>> would be one that feels and behaves like a guitar, but give MIDI output.
>> After all, keyboard players don't have to relearn how to play the
>> instrument just to play synths, and neither should guitar players.

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb 16 12:06:41 2000
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From: Fred Hageneder <DragonDesign@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Re:OH NO! Fizmo again!!!
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Thanks for your quick reply. You made my day!
Love
Fred the Harp

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb 16 12:06:41 2000
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Subject: [Keyboard controllers] was Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it
	) for what it is
From: Travis Hartnett <hartne.t@apple.com>
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A standard on/off organ-style keyboard controller, yes.  But the addition of
aftertouch along with all the mod wheels/pads/pedals adds an enviable number
of controls.  And there used to be this wonderful keyboard that would also
let you wiggle each key from side to side and map that to what ever you
wanted, giving you two aftertouch inputs on each independent held note.  I
wish manufacturers had embraced that wonderful idea.

TH


> Given the vast sonic possibilities of the synth today,
> a keyboard seems the least expressive controller. It is just the
> easiest to build, technically. Keyboardist could never before BEND PITCH.
> Guitarists could.

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb 16 12:21:27 2000
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 12:08:23 EST
Subject: Re: guitar synths are yucky anyway 
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Look, I'm a propellerhead just like anyone else on this list, I mean, I have 
more boxes than I use.

But my judgment is that most MIDI patches I've heard could stay on the New 
Age CDs they came in on.  And I wouldn't want my guitar to sound like that.

Mostly I want my guitar to sound somewhat guitar-like, even if it's a guitar 
that's been wrapped around a Calder mobile.  The original guitar-ness is in 
there somewhere.  I have no plans to go MIDI when I can get equally arousing 
results from, say, an envelope filter (maybe a manila one), a bunch of 
distortion, harmonizing, reverb (ketchup), and some nice tube warmth, for 
instance.  

Besides, if I went with the guitar synth sound, someone might mistake me for 
Pat Metheny, and I don't know if I can be psychotic enough to live up to the 
role.

k

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From: "Taaffe, Denis G" <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
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Subject:   Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
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Hi,

	Well, I think it 's a cool idea. But can really make a mess of
things as well. John Abercrombie was on the radio, what a great guitarist.
Anyway, he was doing guit synth stuff during the 80's but gave it up because
he said he got away from playing actual guitar. Man, I remember buying
holdsworth records and was always dissapointed to hear most of it being this
crusty guitar synth with weak samples and very little regular guitar sounds
in the eighties as well. Of course a guitar player friend of mine heard some
guitar synth stuff and said "man, sounds like freakin' nintendo".my .02
cents
Thanks
Denis

Denis Taaffe
denis_aliengtr@geocities.com
http://www.dtguitar.com
 
--

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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 19:18:30 +0100
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oh a-a-a-and i f-f-forgot to ask:

can you save the various parameter values (presets) via midi?

l8ter,
rob

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hello patrick, i'm thinking seriously about getting a sherman for
processing my stuff (loops of course). 
i have a few questions for ya or any other experts out there (andy?):

- does it process stereo or more?
- does it have a wet/dry control?
- can the vcf's be controlled by midi clock
- is it noisy?
- can you compare it to the mam warp or the electrix filter factory?

thanks!
rob

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   -the man cable-
http://themancable.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Patrick Smith schrieb:
> 
> 
> It's is a great unit, but pricey. Fortunately I picked up mine used. We use
> it all the time in our work in Fingerpaint to color synth patches or grunge
> up digital effects. Originally the makers in Belgium would send you a
> cassette tape of sounds and melody lines before and after the Filterbank
> was applied to give you an idea of it's qualities. I do not know if they
> still do this but I have included their web site.
> 
> The home of the Sherman Filterbank complete with a copy of the Abuser's
> Manual is at:
> 
> http://www.ping.be/sherman/
> 
> To buy a Filterbank in the USA try:
>  But be ready to cough up $800...
> http://www.en-port.com/
> 
> For more info go to:
> 
> http://www.t-v.nl/sherman/numbers.htm
> 
> http://www.eurosynthusa.com/sherman.html
> 
> http://www.vintagesynth.com/misc/sherman.html
> 
> Sound on Sound also do an extensive review a while back which is very
> useful if you pick one of these beasts up.
> 
> Patrick

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From: "Pedro Felix" <PedroFelix@worldnet.att.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re:   Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 13:37:55 -0600
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My inbox has been jammed for the past two-three days with many folks
weighing on in the guitar/synth idea and or/question, not that I feel it
should be a question. Play what you must, I say....anyways, i'm specifically
responding because I feel that if the music is being listened and/or made,
it should be appreciated for just that. As usual, someone tells us that
Holdsworth had the wrong idea when he played the Synthaxe,...jeez do you now
what went into the making of any of those instruments, or what he went
through to acquire one of them. Allan genuinely loves music and makes music,
he wasn't trying to make guitar-synth sounds,...basically it's the labels
that kill us, that make it really hard to even want to try to do anything,
let's stop the slagging when it comes to who decides to play what, where and
for how long. If you didn't dig it, someone else will. If no one digs it, at
least someone TRIED to create,...and isn't that what we're all after...?

-----Original Message-----
From: Taaffe, Denis G <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
To: 'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com' <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is


>
>Hi,
>
> Well, I think it 's a cool idea. But can really make a mess of
>things as well. John Abercrombie was on the radio, what a great guitarist.
>Anyway, he was doing guit synth stuff during the 80's but gave it up
because
>he said he got away from playing actual guitar. Man, I remember buying
>holdsworth records and was always dissapointed to hear most of it being
this
>crusty guitar synth with weak samples and very little regular guitar sounds
>in the eighties as well. Of course a guitar player friend of mine heard
some
>guitar synth stuff and said "man, sounds like freakin' nintendo".my .02
>cents
>Thanks
>Denis
>
>Denis Taaffe
>denis_aliengtr@geocities.com
>http://www.dtguitar.com
>
>--
>

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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Travis Weller <tcweller@spiraco.com>
Subject: Re: The Sherman Filterbank
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>hello patrick, i'm thinking seriously about getting a sherman for
>processing my stuff (loops of course).
>i have a few questions for ya or any other experts out there (andy?):
>
>- does it process stereo or more?

no. there is only one input. it does have two output channels though. it
looks like mr. gillis has just released a much bigger box which would fall
into the "or more" category. its called the "Sherman Quad Modular Filter"
and looks like four filterbanks bolted together in a modular synth style
casing. more info on the web site.

scary looking stuff.

>- does it have a wet/dry control?

yes.

>- can the vcf's be controlled by midi clock

no, but you can trigger the envelope with midi note ons or control the vcfs
with a continuous controller.

>can you save the various parameter values (presets) via midi?

nope.

>- is it noisy?

yes. very, very noisy.

you can actually download the entire manual in pdf format from the web site:

<http://www.ping.be/sherman/>

-travis


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From: "Liebig, Steuart A." <LiebigSA@Maritz.com>
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Subject: RE: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
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pedro said:

basically it's the labels
that kill us, that make it really hard to even want to try to do anything,
let's stop the slagging when it comes to who decides to play what, where and
for how long. If you didn't dig it, someone else will. If no one digs it, at
least someone TRIED to create,...and isn't that what we're all after...?


i say:

well said

stig

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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 12:47:10 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Chris Chovit <cho@newdream.net>
Subject: Re: The Sherman Filterbank
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>>- is it noisy?
>
>yes. very, very noisy.
>

That't too bad!  It was sounding so good up to this point....can you
elaborate on the noise?  THanks!

- chris

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http://www.cryptogramophone.com/ear/schedule.html


Bone Structure
                                              G.E. Stinson - electric
guitars
                                              Jeff Gauthier - electric
violin
                                              Steuart Liebig - electric bass
                                              Gregg Bendian - drums

                                              Michael Vlatkovitch Trio
                                              Michael Vlatkovitch -
trombones
                                              Bruce Fowler - trombones
                                              Chris Garcia - drums 


                                  Saturday February 19   8:00 PM
                                   admission $10.00 at the door
                                        Conjunctive Points
                                        3631 Hayden Ave.
                                           Culver City
                                       310-301-1611 for info

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb 16 16:11:14 2000
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From: "Dennis W. Leas" <dennis@mdbs.com>
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Subject: question re: EDP
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 15:47:09 -0500
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Kim, I'm directing this question to you.  Anybody else, please chime in as you
wish.  Just don't say another word about guitar synthesizers!  :)

I'm connecting my EDPs and my Kyma system, attempting some sort of integration.
I want to build-up a loop on the EDP and capture it in the Kyma.  Basically, I
need the Kyma to "read" the BeatSync output so it can determine when a loop
starts/ends.  Is there a MIDI signal produced analogous to the BeatSync?  My
alternative is to use the BeatSync output to generate a MIDI event via a box
like the PC-1600x, I suppose.

Dennis Leas
-----------------------------
dennis@mdbs.com


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Subject: Re: The Sherman Filterbank
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Like unearthly, f*cked up noise, in a good way
(I think)

- Larry
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Chovit" <cho@newdream.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: The Sherman Filterbank


> 
> >>- is it noisy?
> >
> >yes. very, very noisy.
> >
> 
> That't too bad!  It was sounding so good up to this point....can you
> elaborate on the noise?  THanks!
> 
> - chris
> 
> 

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Subject: Re: The Sherman Filterbank
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>>>- is it noisy?

>>yes. very, very noisy.

>That't too bad!  It was sounding so good up to this point....can you
>elaborate on the noise?  THanks!

well it is a bit difficult to describe noise in email, but i'll try. for
one, by nature, the filterbank is 'gritty'. the manual even quotes it as
having a "tube sound overdrive" effect in addition to the filter. its not
your usual straight digital subtractive synthesis.

don't get me wrong, i REALLY love my sherman filterbank. i ordered it over
two years ago directly from mr. gillis before he had any u.s. distributors
and ever since, its my favorite piece of gear (besides my violin, of
course).

as you may expect from an analog device it does have some quirks here and
there. i often hear noise from it when there is no source signal. there are
also ways to create random high pitches with it by tweaking out the
resonance and the lfo. i've even created huge sonic textures using only the
sherman and an edp feeding back on eachother... with no additional sound
source. its a highly experimental and hands-on instrument with a
personality all its own.

it _isn't_ a pristine, low noise floor studio rack effect that you would
expect to use for eq.

hope the answer to this question didn't turn too much into a review... i
just didn't want anyone to think i was being critical. it is very very
noisy, but in my subjective opinion, its all GOOD noise.

-travis


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From: "Jan P" <jan@gomotech.com>
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Subject: Re: guitar synths are yucky anyway 
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 17:54:12 -0800
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to me, this keyboard guitar feud is a classic difference in channeling
style.. whereas keyed instruments offer a more linear translation from inner
galactic transmissions to pitch, guitar offers the expressiveness found in
direct contact between the musical excitor [string] and the controller.

i am in the early stages of designing a custom instrument to overcome these
limitations.. the instrument uses contact mics sandwiches with force-sensing
resistors as keys-- the hand/mallet/whateveryouwant is in direct contact
with the audio surface-- and the sound of the contact between the finger and
the key is used as an excitor for various configurable audio processes-- for
example, a karplus-strong string resonator or a modal synth... the point is,
the instrument becomes a signalprocessor, not just a signal generator/// and
so we have a signal path that resembles both the tone generating
capabilities of the synth and the tone altering characteristics of
electronified guitar.... spanned across keysurfaces, instead of strings...

i am thinking of writing up a proposal for support from STEIM in amsterdam..

thoughtforms welcome pls

jan




-----Original Message-----
From: KB305@aol.com <KB305@aol.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: guitar synths are yucky anyway


>Look, I'm a propellerhead just like anyone else on this list, I mean, I
have
>more boxes than I use.
>
>But my judgment is that most MIDI patches I've heard could stay on the New
>Age CDs they came in on.  And I wouldn't want my guitar to sound like that.
>
>Mostly I want my guitar to sound somewhat guitar-like, even if it's a
guitar
>that's been wrapped around a Calder mobile.  The original guitar-ness is in
>there somewhere.  I have no plans to go MIDI when I can get equally
arousing
>results from, say, an envelope filter (maybe a manila one), a bunch of
>distortion, harmonizing, reverb (ketchup), and some nice tube warmth, for
>instance.
>
>Besides, if I went with the guitar synth sound, someone might mistake me
for
>Pat Metheny, and I don't know if I can be psychotic enough to live up to
the
>role.
>
>k
>

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-----Original Message-----
From: George Van Wagner <vanwag@earthlink.net>
To: Loopers-Delight <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is


>I know that it wasn't, and I didn't mean to sound quite so abrupt. Blame 
>a busy day at work. My sincere apologies if any offense was taken.
>
>Don't get me wrong. I love the concept of MIDI guitar. The 
>implementations, thus far, have not been acceptable to me, those last two 
>words being the defining ones. I have no trouble with others struggling 
>with the current spate of controllers and learning to work around their 
>limitations. More power to them. My personal interest is in making music, 
>not in learning the eccentricities of a related, yet vastly different 
>instrument than the one I play, and certainly not in altering the way I 
>work to accomodate technology. Good technology folds itself into your 
>work methods, or at least it should, in my opinion. User interface is 
>always the hardest part of design.


re: technology

'...and we can be bothered.' -Roger Waters, Pink Floyd Live from Pompei


-jan


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From: "Jan P" <jan@gomotech.com>
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Subject: Re: Live streaming show tomorrow
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 18:03:04 -0800
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hey, nice salad of cables n stuff

jan

-----Original Message-----
From: Sunao Inami <cave@pop1.osk.3web.ne.jp>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 10:03 AM
Subject: Live streaming show tomorrow


>Hi,
>
>This is our Netcast live info.
>
>"bottom awareness"
>17th Feb
>AM6:00 GMT
>music with practice in creative dancers from Japan
>
>also,opening act:
>synth solo performance (use only Doepfer modules)
>17th Feb
>AM4:30 GMT
>
>Visit to:
>http://www.cavestudio.org/ba/
>
>note:
>Real Player 5.0 or greater and over 28.8k connection required.
>
>  Regards
>
>  Sunao Inami
>http://www.cavestudio.com
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb 16 23:46:29 2000
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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 23:41:15 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Dido in concert
Cc: phv40@hotmail.com
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I just caught Dido's live act.  To be frank, I had no idea who she was
until I found out it is she who sings the theme to Roswell (an American TV
show which I don't watch).  Heck I didn't even know it was the theme to
Roswell - I thought it was the group Massive Attack (dug the CD my friend
lent to me and the song was kind of in that vibe).

Good show, excellent stage presence on Dido's part.

The main point of relevance to this list is that somebody in the band
turned out to be a realtime looper.

AND IT WASN'T THE GUITAR PLAYER OR THE DJ!!! :) :) :)

It was the percussionist! He most noticeably used it in a couple of songs.
One song he began with a shaker riff, looped it, then struck a couple of
little sticks, looped that, then started looping the djembe that he had
strapped on all show long.   For another song, he set up a djembe loop,
then took off on a djembe solo, looping bits of the solo as he went along a
la Bill Frisell.   Between this dude and the DJ, I hardly noticed that a
trap kit drummer was not in the band.

Cheers,
Paolo

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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 23:26:02 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
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At 06:26 PM 2/15/00 -0800, you wrote:
>I know that it wasn't, and I didn't mean to sound quite so abrupt. Blame 
>a busy day at work. My sincere apologies if any offense was taken.

We're cool, then. :)

>Don't get me wrong. I love the concept of MIDI guitar. The 
>implementations, thus far, have not been acceptable to me, those last two 
>words being the defining ones. I have no trouble with others struggling 
>with the current spate of controllers and learning to work around their 
>limitations. More power to them. My personal interest is in making music, 
>not in learning the eccentricities of a related, yet vastly different 
>instrument than the one I play, and certainly not in altering the way I 
>work to accomodate technology. Good technology folds itself into your 
>work methods, or at least it should, in my opinion. User interface is 
>always the hardest part of design.

I think a good place for MIDI guitar manufacturers to start is to add a few
more knobs - especially ones for string sensitivity.  My old Roland GR300
had the right idea... but they put the sensitivity knobs INSIDE the guitar
cavity so I had to pull out a screwdriver if I wanted to fudge with the
sensitivity settings.

Paolo

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From: "Gary Osborne" <maniac@netdirect.net>
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Subject: Sustainiac Sustainer
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 23:50:04 -0500
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------=_NextPart_000_0465_01BF78D8.8B991E00
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There's a new guitar instrumental CD just released by an Artist that =
uses the Sustainiac Sustainer. His name is Troy Stetina. The CD is =
called Exottica.

The full song "Freakshow" (opening track of Exottica) is posted and =
available for free download on MP3.com. Please check it out at =
http://www.mp3.com/stetina.

Troy uses a Jackson guitar with a Sustainiac sustainer installed inside. =
It provides feedback and infinite sustain. Troy keeps the sustainer =
turned on all the time - even when he's not sustaining notes. It helps =
him get a "live" sound since Exottica was recorded direct to PC at his  =
home studio.

Troy is an awesome player/songwriter - in the same league as Satriani, =
Steve Vai, and Eric Johnson.

Troy's played all the bass parts too and BTW, there's a Sustainiac =
Sustainer available for electric bass.

And...

There's an acoustic sustainer available for other instruments too.

Hope you like Exottica and the Sustainiac sustainer!

Gary Osborne
maniac@netdirect.net
www.modrock.com

=20

=20

=20


=20

------=_NextPart_000_0465_01BF78D8.8B991E00
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3401" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>There's a new guitar instrumental CD just released =
by an=20
Artist that uses the Sustainiac Sustainer. His name is Troy Stetina. The =
CD is=20
called Exottica.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The full song "Freakshow" (opening track of =
Exottica) is=20
posted and available for free download on MP3.com. Please check it out =
at <A=20
href=3D"http://www.mp3.com/stetina">http://www.mp3.com/stetina</A>.</FONT=
></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Troy uses a Jackson guitar with a Sustainiac =
sustainer=20
installed inside. It provides feedback and infinite sustain. Troy keeps =
the=20
sustainer turned on all the time - even when he's not sustaining notes. =
It helps=20
him get a "live" sound since Exottica was recorded direct to PC at =
his&nbsp;=20
home studio.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Troy is an awesome player/songwriter - in the same =
league as=20
Satriani, Steve Vai, and Eric Johnson.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Troy's played all the bass parts too and BTW, =
there's a=20
Sustainiac Sustainer available for electric bass.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>And...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>There's an acoustic sustainer available for other =
instruments=20
too.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hope you like Exottica and the Sustainiac=20
sustainer!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Gary Osborne<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:maniac@netdirect.net">maniac@netdirect.net</A><BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.modrock.com">www.modrock.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><BR></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0465_01BF78D8.8B991E00--

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 17 00:43:03 2000
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Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 00 21:22:27 -0800
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From: George Van Wagner <vanwag@earthlink.net>
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My IVL PItchrider (for which I'm seeking a replacement pickup if anybody 
out there has one) has fairly good sensitivity adjustment, and works as 
well for fingerstyle as any other system I've tried (which is to say, not 
very), but it's never been something that I would be comfortable using in 
performance since it's just too glitchy.

George

>At 06:26 PM 2/15/00 -0800, you wrote:
>>I know that it wasn't, and I didn't mean to sound quite so abrupt. Blame 
>>a busy day at work. My sincere apologies if any offense was taken.
>
>We're cool, then. :)
>
>>Don't get me wrong. I love the concept of MIDI guitar. The 
>>implementations, thus far, have not been acceptable to me, those last two 
>>words being the defining ones. I have no trouble with others struggling 
>>with the current spate of controllers and learning to work around their 
>>limitations. More power to them. My personal interest is in making music, 
>>not in learning the eccentricities of a related, yet vastly different 
>>instrument than the one I play, and certainly not in altering the way I 
>>work to accomodate technology. Good technology folds itself into your 
>>work methods, or at least it should, in my opinion. User interface is 
>>always the hardest part of design.
>
>I think a good place for MIDI guitar manufacturers to start is to add a few
>more knobs - especially ones for string sensitivity.  My old Roland GR300
>had the right idea... but they put the sensitivity knobs INSIDE the guitar
>cavity so I had to pull out a screwdriver if I wanted to fudge with the
>sensitivity settings.
>
>Paolo
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 17 01:11:55 2000
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From: Jmash789@cs.com
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 01:07:37 EST
Subject: Looper's Delight websight
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Hello. Not sure if this has been noticed or mentioned or matters, but the 
latest issue of Keyboard has a mention of the Looper's web-site on page 14. 
Thought that was pretty cool. good issue too. 
Also, 
Is Keenan Lawler still on the list? If so, please email me, I've been trying 
to get in touch. thanks, 
J Mash
{exper:mental
music director
wmts 88.3}
 Nashville

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 17 01:41:48 2000
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Thanks for telling us
Steven
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jmash789@cs.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 5:07 PM
Subject: Looper's Delight websight


> Hello. Not sure if this has been noticed or mentioned or matters, but the
> latest issue of Keyboard has a mention of the Looper's web-site on page
14.
> Thought that was pretty cool. good issue too.
> Also,
> Is Keenan Lawler still on the list? If so, please email me, I've been
trying
> to get in touch. thanks,
> J Mash
> {exper:mental
> music director
> wmts 88.3}
>  Nashville
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 17 03:55:25 2000
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From: "Mats Eriksson (ECS)" <Mats.Eriksson@ecs.ericsson.se>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: [Keyboard controllers] was Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leav
	e it	) for what it is
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 09:51:20 +0100
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Agree Travis!

That the keyboard itself could be built with incorporated features, beyond aftertouch and
velocity techniques. The wiggling from side to side is a perfect example, as I always found mod wheel
vibrato boring ( I think that Yamaha had it on their organ YC45 and CS-80 cult synth flagship). A ribbon controller or wiggling keys produces a vibrato that follows your fingers,
just as a guitar. But the thing is, it's still 12 tone, temperament scale. And they try to put in breath controllers or whatever. I want a guitar controller that changes tone according to where you pick on the string. A guitar synth player still sounds like a very medium talented keyboardist...but the opposite way is too easy (i e Jan Hammer style a o).
/mats

-----Original Message-----
From: Travis Hartnett [mailto:hartne.t@apple.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 5:28 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: [Keyboard controllers] was Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave
it ) for what it is


A standard on/off organ-style keyboard controller, yes.  But the addition of
aftertouch along with all the mod wheels/pads/pedals adds an enviable number
of controls.  And there used to be this wonderful keyboard that would also
let you wiggle each key from side to side and map that to what ever you
wanted, giving you two aftertouch inputs on each independent held note.  I
wish manufacturers had embraced that wonderful idea.

TH


> Given the vast sonic possibilities of the synth today,
> a keyboard seems the least expressive controller. It is just the
> easiest to build, technically. Keyboardist could never before BEND PITCH.
> Guitarists could.


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Cc: <okena.hodges@line6.com>, <support@line6.com>, <vanwag@earthlink.net>
Subject: New DL4 complaints 
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 04:13:53 -0600
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Ok I'd like to start by saying that I really do like the DL4, and I think
Line6 is on to something.  They should be congratulated for this very fun,
unique, and useful product.
Now for the mean stuff.  I'm not here for the usual "I want more presets"
complaint.  Quite frankly I think 3 presets is fine.  That's 3 more than any
other stompbox I've ever owned.
My chief complaint is of the functionality of the expression pedal.  What
Line6 fails to mention in any of their descriptions of the DL4 is that you
cannot realistically use both the tap tempo feature AND the expression pedal
after calling up a preset.  It's one or the other.  Let me explain how it
works:  you program the expression pedal to control the "mix" for example.
You save that preset and then you recall it later.  Then you decide to step
on the tap-tempo button for a time adjustment.  At this point your
expression pedal will now sweep through your new and old delay times
(causing that weird, garbled delay-time pitch bend) in addition to the "mix"
(which you have already programmed the exp. pedal to change)....even though
the expression pedal WAS NEVER PROGRAMMED TO CHANGE DELAY TIME.  One of the
MAIN reasons I bought the DL4 was so that I could have real-time control of
all of the main delay parameters (time,feedback,mix).  On one particular
preset, I just want the exp. pedal to control the feedback rate for example.
However as soon as I step on the tap-tempo button the pedal now controls the
delay time too which now makes the expression pedal totally useless to me.
Why on earth would this be useful to anybody??  If the user wants the exp.
pedal to control the delay time, then the user should program it that way.
If the user does not want the exp. pedal to control the delay time, then it
should never control the delay time, regardless of whether or not the user
steps on the tap-tempo.  Why was the DL4 programmed this way??  Basically if
you do not want the exp. pedal to sweep through the delay times (with all of
that wacky pitch bending) then you cannot use the tap tempo feature.  Like I
said, one or the other.  I do not think this is one of those subjective
cases in which "some features are useful to some players and less useful to
others"  Bottom line...once you step on the tap-tempo button the expression
pedal CEASES TO DO WHAT IT HAS BEEN PROGRAMMED TO DO.  Why would that be
useful to ANY DL4 user????  This seems like a software issue.  Why can't the
DL4 be programmed so that the expression pedal controls the delay time only
(and I mean ONLY) when it has been specifically programmed to do so by a
turn of the delay time KNOB (and ONLY by a turn of the knob)???

It just does not make sense to me why this feature has been completely
overlooked.  I'm hoping that if enough of us DL4 users will write/email
Line6, then they will fix this problem with future software
versions/upgrades.  And for the record, I'm on my second DL4 (first one was
faulty) and they both suffered from this problem.

Second complaint:  the accuracy of the expression pedal seems a little
buggy.  As I said before I like to use the exp. pedal to control feedback.
I program the "toe-down" pedal position for maximum feedback.  Sometimes
when I press the pedal all the way down (toe-down) I get near infinite
feedback...well actually it's not infinite as it takes a few minutes for the
feedback to go away, but it's a really long time.  Other times I press the
exp. pedal all the way down and I get feedback that completely dies in about
15-20 seconds.  That's a big gap.  I never know when I'll get the really
long feedback or the shorter feedback.

Again this seems like an area that ought to be addressed with future
software upgrades.

I'd like to say again that I do like the DL4.  I thank Line6 for making a
product that I care enough about to want it to be all that it can be, and
should be capable of.  But for now I realize the DL4 is not going to be the
real-time machine that I need it to be (and that it should be).  I'm still
chained to my rack which is what I wanted to get away from.  Speak up fellow
DL4 users.  If enough users make requests, then the programmers will surely
have to address these issues.

Mike


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 17 05:37:37 2000
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From: "Mad K.O.S. Determination" <lilithxy@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Much respect to guitarists...
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 02:32:01 PST
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...but I am a dj wondering about MIDI compatible looping equipment that can 
run off of turntables for in situ mixing. Anyone out there a dj?

I am relatively new to this hardware... What's this raving about the 
Echoplex? Would it be usuable with live scratching? Would this be the best 
model? Anyone with recommendations?

sincerely,

MIDI novice.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 17 08:42:35 2000
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 14:27:21 +0100
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Well, Hi DJ!

I have waited (too!) long for a looping device that sends MIDI clocks to whatever sample you've made
at your turntable/CD/sampler. I do think it exists, however, really expensive and hard to get. I ve worked with a DJ that used such equipment. We had to sync his scratching to MIDI sequencer, and a played gtr and keyboards to it. It did turn out well, after a lot of hassle. I have forgotten just about everything what the brand/make was and whatever. It was back in the mid 90's.

The Lexicon Jam Man looping device was actually intended for DJ's! The Echoplex that succeded it (however, a different company, Oberheim)was (is) far more intricate and technically sounding better. However, not that intuitive to use.Those two effect boxes among other similar things are the reason for this list/site/newsgroup.

And actually, DJ's are the ones who started "looping" on a large scale anyway, so your input is very welcome in this field. And there should be lot of Looping equipment out there for DJ's, however I do not know how or where to get it.
/Mats


-----Original Message-----
From: Mad K.O.S. Determination [mailto:lilithxy@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 11:32 AM
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Much respect to guitarists...


...but I am a dj wondering about MIDI compatible looping equipment that can 
run off of turntables for in situ mixing. Anyone out there a dj?

I am relatively new to this hardware... What's this raving about the 
Echoplex? Would it be usuable with live scratching? Would this be the best 
model? Anyone with recommendations?

sincerely,

MIDI novice.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 17 09:28:23 2000
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From: RA336@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 09:22:27 EST
Subject: Re: Plexes and instruments: a Sunday evening essay
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I wanna plex...
bwwaaaa!
love & loops,
Robby Aceto

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 17 09:28:22 2000
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From: "Taaffe, Denis G" <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
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Subject: RE: Sustainiac Sustainer
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 09:12:34 -0500
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Hello,
 
    I tried the sustainer and it just didn't work for me at all. I could get
one string vibrating briefly haha.but it was probably that I didn't know how
to use the darn thing. Well, I think it's neat that someone would take the
sustainer and have that be there main thing.Neat, but man did it not work
for me haha. For me, it sounded like a pig squealing right out of
deliverance.....
 

 
Denis 

Denis Taaffe 
denis_aliengtr@geocities.com <mailto:denis_aliengtr@geocities.com>  
http://www.dtguitar.com <http://www.dtguitar.com>  

: Sustainiac Sustainer


It helps him get a "live" sound since Exottica was recorded direct to PC at
his  home studio.
 
haha,  this line srikes me funny. I don't know, to me live means "no
overdubs" or added tracks,reguardless of where performed,no? do you loopers
think along the same lines?.
 
 
 
 

 

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 17 09:48:56 2000
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johnmcc@aldiscon.ie wrote:
> 
> > I have waited (too!) long for a looping device that sends MIDI clocks to
> whatever sample you've made
> > at your turntable/CD/sampler. I do think it exists, however, really
> expensive and hard to get.

Have a look at the DJNRD2 from our LD member Emanuel Perille

the link is here http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/tools.html

Claude

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 17 09:37:56 2000
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Subject: DJ'ed
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> I have waited (too!) long for a looping device that sends MIDI clocks to
whatever sample you've made
> at your turntable/CD/sampler. I do think it exists, however, really
expensive and hard to get.

I've a BOSS SP-202 and it'll take MIDI in. If you're using anything that'll
send a MIDI trigger at the start of each loop, it can trigger a sample on
the 202. Just set that sample patch to "Trigger" and "One-Shot". The 202 is
a very nice, affordable sampler but not ideal as a guitar looper .. you
have to start and stop the recording process using the buttons (not via
MIDI or with foot switches), and guitarists usually don't have a free hand
.... used it with a keyboard tho' and that was fun, especially the ring
modulator, if you fancy sounding like Jan Hammer for a minute. But it is
stereo, good sound quality, and has reverse and time stretch. Perfect for
DJing, or taking loops off the PA for total maymen :-)

I saw a big brother of the 202 that had 16 sample patches, and a built-in 4
track mixing desk .. anyone seen this? It's not on the rolandus.com site.

- John

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http://www.annihilist.com/cgi-bin/wilma/LDarchive

Claude

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 17 10:24:40 2000
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From: "Mats Eriksson (ECS)" <Mats.Eriksson@ecs.ericsson.se>
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Subject: RE: DJ'ed
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 15:46:02 +0100
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Ohh sorry, I meant the other way around:
Whatever sample, loop I make, it should generate a MIDI clock OUT based on the looping points,
instantly. And then you should be able to subdivide, or multiply by that PBM.

Thats my problem with Jam Man and Echoplex. They're only able to DIVIDE it down, once you've set
the loop points or echo/delay points. Once it sends out a clock, one should be able to MULTIPLY the
echo/delay or loop point on Jam Man/Exhoplex without changing the MIDI clock out to, let's say a drum machine. Then the drum machine would play a 8 bar, but you put in a 16 or 32 bar loop that will stay in place regardless, and not drift out of time after 64 bars...or more interesting, a triplet of that, to create polyrhythmical lines...
/mats
-----Original Message-----
From: johnmcc@aldiscon.ie [mailto:johnmcc@aldiscon.ie]
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 3:33 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: DJ'ed



> I have waited (too!) long for a looping device that sends MIDI clocks to
whatever sample you've made
> at your turntable/CD/sampler. I do think it exists, however, really
expensive and hard to get.

I've a BOSS SP-202 and it'll take MIDI in. If you're using anything that'll
send a MIDI trigger at the start of each loop, it can trigger a sample on
the 202. Just set that sample patch to "Trigger" and "One-Shot". The 202 is
a very nice, affordable sampler but not ideal as a guitar looper .. you
have to start and stop the recording process using the buttons (not via
MIDI or with foot switches), and guitarists usually don't have a free hand
.... used it with a keyboard tho' and that was fun, especially the ring
modulator, if you fancy sounding like Jan Hammer for a minute. But it is
stereo, good sound quality, and has reverse and time stretch. Perfect for
DJing, or taking loops off the PA for total maymen :-)

I saw a big brother of the 202 that had 16 sample patches, and a built-in 4
track mixing desk .. anyone seen this? It's not on the rolandus.com site.

- John


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 17 10:14:37 2000
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From: Christoph Helma <helma@informatik.uni-freiburg.de>
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On Thu, Feb 17, 2000 at 03:34:51PM -0800, Claude voit wrote:
> 
> Have a look at the DJNRD2 from our LD member Emanuel Perille
> 
> the link is here http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/tools.html
> 
> Claude

Is anyone using this piece. I'd like to hear some comments.
christoph

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From: "Larry Tremblay" <ltct@concentric.net>
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Subject: Re: Much respect to guitarists...
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Listmember Emmanuel created the DJRND2 loop machine
specifically with DJ's in mind. Check out the Tools
of the Trade section of Looper's Delight, or contact
Emmanuel yourself at perille@club-internet.fr

Nice guy with a great idea.

- Larry T


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mats Eriksson (ECS)" <Mats.Eriksson@ecs.ericsson.se>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 8:27 AM
Subject: RE: Much respect to guitarists...


> Well, Hi DJ!
>
> I have waited (too!) long for a looping device that sends MIDI clocks to
whatever sample you've made
> at your turntable/CD/sampler. I do think it exists, however, really
expensive and hard to get. I ve worked with a DJ that used such equipment.
We had to sync his scratching to MIDI sequencer, and a played gtr and
keyboards to it. It did turn out well, after a lot of hassle. I have
forgotten just about everything what the brand/make was and whatever. It was
back in the mid 90's.
>
> The Lexicon Jam Man looping device was actually intended for DJ's! The
Echoplex that succeded it (however, a different company, Oberheim)was (is)
far more intricate and technically sounding better. However, not that
intuitive to use.Those two effect boxes among other similar things are the
reason for this list/site/newsgroup.
>
> And actually, DJ's are the ones who started "looping" on a large scale
anyway, so your input is very welcome in this field. And there should be lot
of Looping equipment out there for DJ's, however I do not know how or where
to get it.
> /Mats
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mad K.O.S. Determination [mailto:lilithxy@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 11:32 AM
> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Subject: Much respect to guitarists...
>
>
> ...but I am a dj wondering about MIDI compatible looping equipment that
can
> run off of turntables for in situ mixing. Anyone out there a dj?
>
> I am relatively new to this hardware... What's this raving about the
> Echoplex? Would it be usuable with live scratching? Would this be the best
> model? Anyone with recommendations?
>
> sincerely,
>
> MIDI novice.
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 17 11:58:42 2000
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From: KILLINFO@aol.com
Message-ID: <a0.142ffd1.25dd7ffe@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 11:46:54 EST
Subject: Re: Sustainiac Sustainer
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
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In a message dated 02/16/00 9:11:15 PM, maniac@netdirect.net writes:

>There's a new guitar instrumental CD just released by an Artist that uses
>the Sustainiac Sustainer. His name is Troy Stetina. The CD is called 
Exottica.

The Sustainiac is an awesome device. I've used the Model B for years and 
years and never play without it. I have no idea how this fellow sounds with 
it, but the device is definitely something I'd recommend checking out. I use 
mine even on my Lakewood M-32 acoustic.

Ted Killian

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 17 12:05:59 2000
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:59:29 +0000
From: "Graham " <pentlandcrown@u.genie.co.uk>
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--webexpress-2.1.3-066f38
Content-Type: text/plain

Check out www.redsystems.com
With the yoyager you can get MIDI clock to sync up EDP's etc direct from 

your turntables!
Got to be good

; name=""
Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64

LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLTA3MzU5MjI3MTcxMTU3

--webexpress-2.1.3-066f38--

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 17 12:06:49 2000
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From: "David Potter" <papadave55@hotmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: DJRND2 Tape and soon to be DJRND3  
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 09:00:29 PST
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Hi guys, Emmanuel sent me a tape of the DJRND2 and different mixes.  It does 
seem to be for DJing but I am interested to see if I can apply it to my home 
studio looping creations and live performences..  I like alot of what is on 
the tape and it definately loops.  It picks up different sound patches holds 
them picks up more fades them out and brings them back.  He is working on a 
new DJRND3 with upgraded abilities.  I still want a hands on experience and 
may have DJRND2 soon to try out with the Santa Cruz,Ca and Bay area loopers. 
  I'll keep ya posted.  Om and Out  Papa Dave
               papadave55@hotmail.com

>From: "Larry Tremblay" <ltct@concentric.net>
>Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>Subject: Re: Much respect to guitarists...
>Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:12:40 -0500
>
>Listmember Emmanuel created the DJRND2 loop machine
>specifically with DJ's in mind. Check out the Tools
>of the Trade section of Looper's Delight, or contact
>Emmanuel yourself at perille@club-internet.fr
>
>Nice guy with a great idea.
>
>- Larry T
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mats Eriksson (ECS)" <Mats.Eriksson@ecs.ericsson.se>
>To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 8:27 AM
>Subject: RE: Much respect to guitarists...
>
>
> > Well, Hi DJ!
> >
> > I have waited (too!) long for a looping device that sends MIDI clocks to
>whatever sample you've made
> > at your turntable/CD/sampler. I do think it exists, however, really
>expensive and hard to get. I ve worked with a DJ that used such equipment.
>We had to sync his scratching to MIDI sequencer, and a played gtr and
>keyboards to it. It did turn out well, after a lot of hassle. I have
>forgotten just about everything what the brand/make was and whatever. It 
>was
>back in the mid 90's.
> >
> > The Lexicon Jam Man looping device was actually intended for DJ's! The
>Echoplex that succeded it (however, a different company, Oberheim)was (is)
>far more intricate and technically sounding better. However, not that
>intuitive to use.Those two effect boxes among other similar things are the
>reason for this list/site/newsgroup.
> >
> > And actually, DJ's are the ones who started "looping" on a large scale
>anyway, so your input is very welcome in this field. And there should be 
>lot
>of Looping equipment out there for DJ's, however I do not know how or where
>to get it.
> > /Mats
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mad K.O.S. Determination [mailto:lilithxy@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 11:32 AM
> > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> > Subject: Much respect to guitarists...
> >
> >
> > ...but I am a dj wondering about MIDI compatible looping equipment that
>can
> > run off of turntables for in situ mixing. Anyone out there a dj?
> >
> > I am relatively new to this hardware... What's this raving about the
> > Echoplex? Would it be usuable with live scratching? Would this be the 
>best
> > model? Anyone with recommendations?
> >
> > sincerely,
> >
> > MIDI novice.
> > ______________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> >
> >
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 17 12:22:54 2000
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From: "Gerry P" <gerryp@air.on.ca>
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Subject: Re: Sustainiac Sustainer
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I would agree completely.  I had the Sustainiac Stealth/Seymour Duncan
mini-humbucker package from Maniac Music (Alan Hoover) installed on my Godin
last year and use it for DI in my home studio - I don't own an amp/cab but
get great results for guitar tone using a POD, a GP100 and the Stealth.

Gerry
----- Original Message -----
From: <KILLINFO@aol.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: Sustainiac Sustainer


> In a message dated 02/16/00 9:11:15 PM, maniac@netdirect.net writes:
>
>
> The Sustainiac is an awesome device. I've used the Model B for years and
> years and never play without it. I have no idea how this fellow sounds
with
> it, but the device is definitely something I'd recommend checking out. I
use
> mine even on my Lakewood M-32 acoustic.
>
> Ted Killian
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 17 12:18:41 2000
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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 09:11:45 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Rich <rich@nuvision.com>
Subject: Re: New DL4 complaints 
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I am going to have to agree 100% on this one!  The expression pedal with
the DL-4 is an incredible combination, but problematic.  My
presets/expression pedal setup are:

preset 1:  Reverse delay with exp. pedal controls Mix - 0% - 100%.
preset 2:  Tube Delay with exp. pedal controls Drive
preset 3:  Digital Delay with exp. controls Mix - 0% - 100%.

Looper Mode:  exp. controls Mix

I haven't had a need to set the tap tempo while using the exp. pedal, but
Mike's description makes total sense.  I think the exp. pedal is very
buggy, unless it does one simple thing only.  I have had very little
trouble with the above presets, but i wanted the exp. pedal to do more
things...i just gave up after i couldn't get what i wanted.

George Van Wager, if you are getting this, let us know what you think!
Thanks for an awesome box.  If the expression pedal issue could be solved
with a software/eprom release, this box would be almost flawless for the
fun/ease of use/price/fun/fun/fun  ratio!

later,

rich



At 04:13 AM 2/17/00 -0600, you wrote:
>Ok I'd like to start by saying that I really do like the DL4, and I think
>Line6 is on to something.  They should be congratulated for this very fun,
>unique, and useful product.
>Now for the mean stuff.  I'm not here for the usual "I want more presets"
>complaint.  Quite frankly I think 3 presets is fine.  That's 3 more than any
>other stompbox I've ever owned.
>My chief complaint is of the functionality of the expression pedal.  What
>Line6 fails to mention in any of their descriptions of the DL4 is that you
>cannot realistically use both the tap tempo feature AND the expression pedal
>after calling up a preset.  It's one or the other.  Let me explain how it
>works:  you program the expression pedal to control the "mix" for example.
>You save that preset and then you recall it later.  Then you decide to step
>on the tap-tempo button for a time adjustment.  At this point your
>expression pedal will now sweep through your new and old delay times
>(causing that weird, garbled delay-time pitch bend) in addition to the "mix"
>(which you have already programmed the exp. pedal to change)....even though
>the expression pedal WAS NEVER PROGRAMMED TO CHANGE DELAY TIME.  One of the
>MAIN reasons I bought the DL4 was so that I could have real-time control of
>all of the main delay parameters (time,feedback,mix).  On one particular
>preset, I just want the exp. pedal to control the feedback rate for example.
>However as soon as I step on the tap-tempo button the pedal now controls the
>delay time too which now makes the expression pedal totally useless to me.
>Why on earth would this be useful to anybody??  If the user wants the exp.
>pedal to control the delay time, then the user should program it that way.
>If the user does not want the exp. pedal to control the delay time, then it
>should never control the delay time, regardless of whether or not the user
>steps on the tap-tempo.  Why was the DL4 programmed this way??  Basically if
>you do not want the exp. pedal to sweep through the delay times (with all of
>that wacky pitch bending) then you cannot use the tap tempo feature.  Like I
>said, one or the other.  I do not think this is one of those subjective
>cases in which "some features are useful to some players and less useful to
>others"  Bottom line...once you step on the tap-tempo button the expression
>pedal CEASES TO DO WHAT IT HAS BEEN PROGRAMMED TO DO.  Why would that be
>useful to ANY DL4 user????  This seems like a software issue.  Why can't the
>DL4 be programmed so that the expression pedal controls the delay time only
>(and I mean ONLY) when it has been specifically programmed to do so by a
>turn of the delay time KNOB (and ONLY by a turn of the knob)???
>
>It just does not make sense to me why this feature has been completely
>overlooked.  I'm hoping that if enough of us DL4 users will write/email
>Line6, then they will fix this problem with future software
>versions/upgrades.  And for the record, I'm on my second DL4 (first one was
>faulty) and they both suffered from this problem.
>
>Second complaint:  the accuracy of the expression pedal seems a little
>buggy.  As I said before I like to use the exp. pedal to control feedback.
>I program the "toe-down" pedal position for maximum feedback.  Sometimes
>when I press the pedal all the way down (toe-down) I get near infinite
>feedback...well actually it's not infinite as it takes a few minutes for the
>feedback to go away, but it's a really long time.  Other times I press the
>exp. pedal all the way down and I get feedback that completely dies in about
>15-20 seconds.  That's a big gap.  I never know when I'll get the really
>long feedback or the shorter feedback.
>
>Again this seems like an area that ought to be addressed with future
>software upgrades.
>
>I'd like to say again that I do like the DL4.  I thank Line6 for making a
>product that I care enough about to want it to be all that it can be, and
>should be capable of.  But for now I realize the DL4 is not going to be the
>real-time machine that I need it to be (and that it should be).  I'm still
>chained to my rack which is what I wanted to get away from.  Speak up fellow
>DL4 users.  If enough users make requests, then the programmers will surely
>have to address these issues.
>
>Mike
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 17 12:13:49 2000
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In a message dated 02/17/00 2:18:19 AM, ew37@bellsouth.net writes:

>causing that weird, garbled delay-time pitch bend...

Hmmmmm. Sounds interesting. I gotta get me one of fthese things. :-)

TK

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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 09:09:23 -0800
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: DJ'ed
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At 6:46 AM -0800 2/17/00, Mats Eriksson (ECS) wrote:
>Ohh sorry, I meant the other way around:
>Whatever sample, loop I make, it should generate a MIDI clock OUT based on
>the looping points, instantly.

both the echoplex and the jamman have midi clock sync in and out. They work
just like you want.

>And then you should be able to subdivide, or multiply by that PBM.
>
>Thats my problem with Jam Man and Echoplex. They're only able to DIVIDE it
>down, once you've set
>the loop points or echo/delay points. Once it sends out a clock, one
>should be able to MULTIPLY the
>echo/delay or loop point on Jam Man/Exhoplex without changing the MIDI
>clock out to, let's say a drum machine. Then the drum machine would play a
>8 bar, but you put in a 16 or 32 bar loop that will stay in place
>regardless, and not drift out of time after 64 bars... >or more interesting,
>a triplet of that, to create polyrhythmical lines...
>/mats

This is exactly how the OB echoplex works for midi sync! For example, if
you have a loop playing and sending out midi clock, you can use the
multiply function to make it some multiple number longer. (2x, 3x, 4x, 27x,
whatever.) The midi clock stays the same, based on the basic loop length
you started with. But your loop is now multiplied longer.

You use the 8ths/beat parameter to set how long your basic cycle is in
relation to the midi clock. (2 bars, for example). This basically sets the
tempo for you.

If you sync to midi clock in, this multiplying happens automatically. So if
have it set for 8-beats/2bar loops, and you leave the loop record going
longer than 2 bars, it automatically notes the 2 bar point as your basic
cycle and begins doing that multiply function for you automatically.
(you'll see the multiple display count up as 2 bars passes, in this case.)
Whenever you end the record, it finishes up the current cycle. In this way,
you can easily record long loops in sync to midi clock. It's very flexible
and totally designed for this live, real-time sort of use. The machine
takes care of everything for you and makes it very simple to use.

And in the next software version, we will revolutionize sync with some
really great new ideas! ;-)

kim




>-----Original Message-----
>From: johnmcc@aldiscon.ie [mailto:johnmcc@aldiscon.ie]
>Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 3:33 PM
>To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>Subject: DJ'ed
>
>
>
>> I have waited (too!) long for a looping device that sends MIDI clocks to
>whatever sample you've made
>> at your turntable/CD/sampler. I do think it exists, however, really
>expensive and hard to get.
>
>I've a BOSS SP-202 and it'll take MIDI in. If you're using anything that'll
>send a MIDI trigger at the start of each loop, it can trigger a sample on
>the 202. Just set that sample patch to "Trigger" and "One-Shot". The 202 is
>a very nice, affordable sampler but not ideal as a guitar looper .. you
>have to start and stop the recording process using the buttons (not via
>MIDI or with foot switches), and guitarists usually don't have a free hand
>.... used it with a keyboard tho' and that was fun, especially the ring
>modulator, if you fancy sounding like Jan Hammer for a minute. But it is
>stereo, good sound quality, and has reverse and time stretch. Perfect for
>DJing, or taking loops off the PA for total maymen :-)
>
>I saw a big brother of the 202 that had 16 sample patches, and a built-in 4
>track mixing desk .. anyone seen this? It's not on the rolandus.com site.
>
>- John


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | 


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<< I saw a big brother of the 202 that had 16 sample patches, and a built-in 4
 track mixing desk .. anyone seen this? It's not on the rolandus.com site. >>

I think you might be talking about the SP-808.  It is the one piece of gear 
that I would keep, if I could only have one.  Which reminds me, one of these 
days I'll post a list of 'stuff in the closet" that needs a new home.

    hawkeye

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From: Hawkeye255@aol.com
Message-ID: <df.16c4b76.25dd8975@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 12:27:17 EST
Subject: Re: EDP On Ebay - $600
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on ebay under Oberheim.

version 5.0 and footpedal--only $600 (at the moment)

    hawkeye

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 17 12:18:14 2000
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From: magicicada@mindspring.com
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 12:07:54 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: DJRND2 Tape and soon to be DJRND3  
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 i would love to hear a tape of that as well.
regards,
c.
Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com wrote:
> Hi guys, Emmanuel sent me a tape of the DJRND2 and different mixes.  It does seem to be for DJing but I am interested to see if I can apply it to my home 
studio looping creations and live performences..  I like alot of what is on 
the tape and it definately loops.  It picks up different sound patches holds 
them picks up more fades them out and brings them back.  He is working on a 
new DJRND3 with upgraded abilities.  I still want a hands on experience and 
may have DJRND2 soon to try out with the Santa Cruz,Ca and Bay area loopers. 
  I'll keep ya posted.  Om and Out  Papa Dave
               papadave55@hotmail.com

>From: "Larry Tremblay" 
>Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>To: 
>Subject: Re: Much respect to guitarists...
>Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:12:40 -0500
>
>Listmember Emmanuel created the DJRND2 loop machine
>specifically with DJ's in mind. Check out the Tools
>of the Trade section of Looper's Delight, or contact
>Emmanuel yourself at perille@club-internet.fr
>
>Nice guy with a great idea.
>
>- Larry T
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mats Eriksson (ECS)" 
>To: 
>Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 8:27 AM
>Subject: RE: Much respect to guitarists...
>
>
> > Well, Hi DJ!
> >
> > I have waited (too!) long for a looping device that sends MIDI clocks to
>whatever sample you've made
> > at your turntable/CD/sampler. I do think it exists, however, really
>expensive and hard to get. I ve worked with a DJ that used such equipment.
>We had to sync his scratching to MIDI sequencer, and a played gtr and
>keyboards to it. It did turn out well, after a lot of hassle. I have
>forgotten just about everything what the brand/make was and whatever. It 
>was
>back in the mid 90's.
> >
> > The Lexicon Jam Man looping device was actually intended for DJ's! The
>Echoplex that succeded it (however, a different company, Oberheim)was (is)
>far more intricate and technically sounding better. However, not that
>intuitive to use.Those two effect boxes among other similar things are the
>reason for this list/site/newsgroup.
> >
> > And actually, DJ's are the ones who started "looping" on a large scale
>anyway, so your input is very welcome in this field. And there should be 
>lot
>of Looping equipment out there for DJ's, however I do not know how or where
>to get it.
> > /Mats
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mad K.O.S. Determination [mailto:lilithxy@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 11:32 AM
> > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> > Subject: Much respect to guitarists...
> >
> >
> > ...but I am a dj wondering about MIDI compatible looping equipment that
>can
> > run off of turntables for in situ mixing. Anyone out there a dj?
> >
> > I am relatively new to this hardware... What's this raving about the
> > Echoplex? Would it be usuable with live scratching? Would this be the 
>best
> > model? Anyone with recommendations?
> >
> > sincerely,
> >
> > MIDI novice.
> > ______________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> >
> >
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 17 20:24:01 2000
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From: "Peter Shindler" <shindler@mediaone.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
References: <20000216034642.54429.qmail@hotmail.com> <38AA9633.63FC443B@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 20:12:08 -0500
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Heh heh...  One of my first looping experiments was to set up a microphone
by my front door, ring the bell, and try to record my dog's barking and then
do something rhythmic with it.  The final product definitely fell into my
very large "failed experiments" file, although it was much better than the
duet I tried to write for dog and piano.  :)

With regards to the synth firestorm I started, I've decided to skip it for
now in favor of a used Boss GT3 and an EH Microsynth reissue, which I just
can't wait to get my hands on.  The Sherman Filterbank will also have to
wait til later...


Peter


"I guess you go too far when pianos try to be guitars."  (or vice versa)

                                -Tori Amos, "Northern Lad"





----- Original Message -----
From: lance glover <baumhaus@earthlink.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 7:22 AM
Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is


> Potter wrote:
>
> > It's all good!  Respect the diversity.  I love to loop with a mike and a
pan
> > with water sloshing around in it while I hit the pan with a stick.
Great
> > sounds.
>
> best part is no tracking problems w/ the right stick...
>
> *but seriously* its (it's) good to see a positive addition to this thread.
>
>
> lance g.
>
> ps i've got major leaks in my bldg. due to heavy rains. lotsa water
sloshing
> around in pans. got one looping now  :-)
>
>
>


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 17 22:40:06 2000
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From: "K. Douglas Baldwin" <dbaldwin@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
To: "Taaffe, Denis G" <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>, <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Sustainiac Sustainer
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:32:53 -0500
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A primary problem in trying these units out is that the battery MUST be
fresh and up to it's full 9+ volts.
Could be the battery was near dead, a common problem in music stores where
the sales people just don't get it.
Douglas Baldwin, Alpha male Coyote, the Trickster
dbaldwin@suffolk.lib.ny.us

-----Original Message-----
From: Taaffe, Denis G <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
To: 'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com' <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Date: Thursday, February 17, 2000 9:12 AM
Subject: RE: Sustainiac Sustainer


>Hello,
>
>    I tried the sustainer and it just didn't work for me at all. I could
get
>one string vibrating briefly haha.but it was probably that I didn't know
how
>to use the darn thing. Well, I think it's neat that someone would take the
>sustainer and have that be there main thing.Neat, but man did it not work
>for me haha. For me, it sounded like a pig squealing right out of
>deliverance.....
>
>
>
>Denis
>
>Denis Taaffe
>denis_aliengtr@geocities.com <mailto:denis_aliengtr@geocities.com>
>http://www.dtguitar.com <http://www.dtguitar.com>
>
>: Sustainiac Sustainer
>
>
>It helps him get a "live" sound since Exottica was recorded direct to PC at
>his  home studio.
>
>haha,  this line srikes me funny. I don't know, to me live means "no
>overdubs" or added tracks,reguardless of where performed,no? do you loopers
>think along the same lines?.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 18 01:46:57 2000
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  hey everybody! the page of altomusic is UP again! :


     http://www.altomusic.com/


     Andy.





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From: "Mats Eriksson (ECS)" <Mats.Eriksson@ecs.ericsson.se>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: DJ'ed
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 08:46:29 +0100
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Well,
I must definitely have the earliest software on the OB plex (don't know which one yet, have to check it out, bought it secondhand). Because this (as you described below) just doesn't work. Jam Man does it (sync out) but you can't do it in echo/delay mode, which I m after. At least not with original software. 

Thanks for the tips & tricks anyway!

/mats

-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Flint [mailto:kflint@annihilist.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 6:09 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: RE: DJ'ed


At 6:46 AM -0800 2/17/00, Mats Eriksson (ECS) wrote:
>Ohh sorry, I meant the other way around:
>Whatever sample, loop I make, it should generate a MIDI clock OUT based on
>the looping points, instantly.

both the echoplex and the jamman have midi clock sync in and out. They work
just like you want.

>And then you should be able to subdivide, or multiply by that PBM.
>
>Thats my problem with Jam Man and Echoplex. They're only able to DIVIDE it
>down, once you've set
>the loop points or echo/delay points. Once it sends out a clock, one
>should be able to MULTIPLY the
>echo/delay or loop point on Jam Man/Exhoplex without changing the MIDI
>clock out to, let's say a drum machine. Then the drum machine would play a
>8 bar, but you put in a 16 or 32 bar loop that will stay in place
>regardless, and not drift out of time after 64 bars... >or more interesting,
>a triplet of that, to create polyrhythmical lines...
>/mats

This is exactly how the OB echoplex works for midi sync! For example, if
you have a loop playing and sending out midi clock, you can use the
multiply function to make it some multiple number longer. (2x, 3x, 4x, 27x,
whatever.) The midi clock stays the same, based on the basic loop length
you started with. But your loop is now multiplied longer.

You use the 8ths/beat parameter to set how long your basic cycle is in
relation to the midi clock. (2 bars, for example). This basically sets the
tempo for you.

If you sync to midi clock in, this multiplying happens automatically. So if
have it set for 8-beats/2bar loops, and you leave the loop record going
longer than 2 bars, it automatically notes the 2 bar point as your basic
cycle and begins doing that multiply function for you automatically.
(you'll see the multiple display count up as 2 bars passes, in this case.)
Whenever you end the record, it finishes up the current cycle. In this way,
you can easily record long loops in sync to midi clock. It's very flexible
and totally designed for this live, real-time sort of use. The machine
takes care of everything for you and makes it very simple to use.

And in the next software version, we will revolutionize sync with some
really great new ideas! ;-)

kim




>-----Original Message-----
>From: johnmcc@aldiscon.ie [mailto:johnmcc@aldiscon.ie]
>Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 3:33 PM
>To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>Subject: DJ'ed
>
>
>
>> I have waited (too!) long for a looping device that sends MIDI clocks to
>whatever sample you've made
>> at your turntable/CD/sampler. I do think it exists, however, really
>expensive and hard to get.
>
>I've a BOSS SP-202 and it'll take MIDI in. If you're using anything that'll
>send a MIDI trigger at the start of each loop, it can trigger a sample on
>the 202. Just set that sample patch to "Trigger" and "One-Shot". The 202 is
>a very nice, affordable sampler but not ideal as a guitar looper .. you
>have to start and stop the recording process using the buttons (not via
>MIDI or with foot switches), and guitarists usually don't have a free hand
>.... used it with a keyboard tho' and that was fun, especially the ring
>modulator, if you fancy sounding like Jan Hammer for a minute. But it is
>stereo, good sound quality, and has reverse and time stretch. Perfect for
>DJing, or taking loops off the PA for total maymen :-)
>
>I saw a big brother of the 202 that had 16 sample patches, and a built-in 4
>track mixing desk .. anyone seen this? It's not on the rolandus.com site.
>
>- John


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | 



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Yes, that BiG brother to the SP-202 is the SP-808......


----Original Message Follows----
From: johnmcc@aldiscon.ie
Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: DJ'ed
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 14:32:35 +0000


 > I have waited (too!) long for a looping device that sends MIDI clocks to
whatever sample you've made
 > at your turntable/CD/sampler. I do think it exists, however, really
expensive and hard to get.

I've a BOSS SP-202 and it'll take MIDI in. If you're using anything that'll
send a MIDI trigger at the start of each loop, it can trigger a sample on
the 202. Just set that sample patch to "Trigger" and "One-Shot". The 202 is
a very nice, affordable sampler but not ideal as a guitar looper .. you
have to start and stop the recording process using the buttons (not via
MIDI or with foot switches), and guitarists usually don't have a free hand
.... used it with a keyboard tho' and that was fun, especially the ring
modulator, if you fancy sounding like Jan Hammer for a minute. But it is
stereo, good sound quality, and has reverse and time stretch. Perfect for
DJing, or taking loops off the PA for total maymen :-)

I saw a big brother of the 202 that had 16 sample patches, and a built-in 4
track mixing desk .. anyone seen this? It's not on the rolandus.com site.

- John


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 18 07:30:52 2000
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 07:11:32 -0500
From: Kevin <kevin@minds-eye.org>
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I've had my DL4 for a couple of weeks now and have noticed that it seems
to feedback and distort very easily (especially when adjusting the
feedback and regen).  This is especially true on the sweep echo and tape
echo settings (a slight adjustment and the signal goes over the top and
breaks-up).  This happens whether the DL4 is late in the effects chain
or the only stop between the guitar and the amp.

I'm not sure if that's just the nature of the effects, or if there's
something wrong here.  It just seems way too easy to make some truly
terrible noise quickly.  It also seems like using an expression pedal
would be very difficult to control without creating the same damaged
noise (not a good thing this time).  Has anyone had any similar
problems?

Thanks

Kevin

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From: Phaedebk@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 07:20:25 EST
Subject: Re: passive pick ups
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Renaldo,

    May want to try a set of Seymour Duncan's in it.

    Try out the Jazz for the neck and a JB for the neck, you may enjoy the 
change from the EMG's.

    Lee-ohki.

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From: Phaedebk@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 07:49:35 EST
Subject: Re: Much respect to guitarists...
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Hellay there,

    I'm not a DJ anymore, so this may or may not be of interest, you may want 
to check out http://www.catalog.com/starrlab and then take a peak at the 
Vestax 05 DJ Mixer.  It's down towards the bottom, so head's up, eh?

    This is the blurb which is on Harvey's page:
    Vestax 05 DJ Mixer retrofit with MIDI pickups on the 2 Channel sliders 
and the Crossfade slider. The companion Y10 controller translates the 
MixMaster's movements into MIDI EFX. These can also be translated into Video 
fades in a multi-media system.

    
    L8r on,

        Lee-ohki.

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From: Phaedebk@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 07:35:38 EST
Subject: Re: Guitar synth..take it (or leave it ) for what it is
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John,

    I know that Andy Summers was using a Roland GR-707 and GR-700 for a long 
time and then he went over to the Ibanez MIDI 2010 system, and from there, I 
think he's gone with the Axon system, but I could be wrong.  For a MIDI 
pickup, I'm not sure what he's using anymore...

    The RMC's are going to work out a bit better than the Hex as they are 
going to be set directly on the string, and they aren't going to have to deal 
with the amount of crosstalk which is normal for the Hex (magnetic, GK-2a) 
pickups which are out there.  This is extremely true if you are using a Bass 
as your controller.  Another thing which helps out is to have the nut on the 
instrument you are using intonated as well.  For my Gene V with RMC's to my 
GR-30 (soon to also be a Yamaha G50) I've noticed that the lower strings are 
tracking substantially better with the RMC's and the new nut.  Still, it is 
not as quick as I pluck the string and INSTANTLY the synth makes an 
appropriate sound, there is still a little lag and always will be!  

    As for problems with fingerstyle vs. pick(s), I can say that the Axon 
systems tend to work a little better with picks, as do the Roland, and there 
is after touch information sent out on both the GR-30 and the Axon AX-100SB 
both internally and externally.  
    One thing I noticed immediately is that the Axon systems are much faster 
at sending out MIDI information than the Roland units, though I have not had 
a chance to try out the new GR-33.  On my GR-30, I notice that it does a real 
happening job with different finger styles out there.  Also, playing lightly 
helps out drastically.

    Have to agree with a few other posts out there that you'll spend a bit of 
time getting used to how the conversion brain is going to react to what you 
are doing on the instrument.  Just as I also have to agree that a bad way to 
go into this is to think that you'll be playing a guitar for the effect of 
playing a piano.  Just doesn't happen.  'tis better to think of it as playing 
a synthesizer with a guitar interface, and then also have the ability to 
switch back to guitar, again.  Another slight plug towards the RMC's are that 
they also offer one of the best acoustic sounds I've had the pleasure of 
using.

    Hope this helps a bit.

        Lee-ohki.

"We are all connected, even outside the Wired."

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 18 10:32:07 2000
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From: "Larry Tremblay" <ltct@concentric.net>
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Subject: Re: DL4 dissappointment
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I took a test drive of the DL4 w/ expression pedal.
As far as I can tell, the zipper noise is virtually 
unavoidable. I think Line6 goofed on this product.
It's really not much of a loop machine, unlike the 
Headrush, for instance, which is better-suited IMO.

Too bad...

- Larry


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kevin" <kevin@minds-eye.org>
To: "loop" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 7:11 AM
Subject: DL4 question


> I've had my DL4 for a couple of weeks now and have noticed that it seems
> to feedback and distort very easily (especially when adjusting the
> feedback and regen).  This is especially true on the sweep echo and tape
> echo settings (a slight adjustment and the signal goes over the top and
> breaks-up).  This happens whether the DL4 is late in the effects chain
> or the only stop between the guitar and the amp.
> 
> I'm not sure if that's just the nature of the effects, or if there's
> something wrong here.  It just seems way too easy to make some truly
> terrible noise quickly.  It also seems like using an expression pedal
> would be very difficult to control without creating the same damaged
> noise (not a good thing this time).  Has anyone had any similar
> problems?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Kevin
> 
> 

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From: Rich <rich@nuvision.com>
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Are you running really hot pickups, that might be overloading the dl-4?
That's about the only thing i would guess, unless the unit is faulty.  My
unit is clean, clean, clean.  As for when you are adjusting the feedback
and regen, you might notice a 'zipper' sound if you move the knob too fast,
since we are dealing with a 'software' modeled delay.

If you are using a guitar with active pickups, maybe try a passive guitar.
If it still breaks up, call line6...


rich


At 07:11 AM 2/18/00 -0500, you wrote:
>I've had my DL4 for a couple of weeks now and have noticed that it seems
>to feedback and distort very easily (especially when adjusting the
>feedback and regen).  This is especially true on the sweep echo and tape
>echo settings (a slight adjustment and the signal goes over the top and
>breaks-up).  This happens whether the DL4 is late in the effects chain
>or the only stop between the guitar and the amp.
>
>I'm not sure if that's just the nature of the effects, or if there's
>something wrong here.  It just seems way too easy to make some truly
>terrible noise quickly.  It also seems like using an expression pedal
>would be very difficult to control without creating the same damaged
>noise (not a good thing this time).  Has anyone had any similar
>problems?
>
>Thanks
>
>Kevin
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 18 12:03:39 2000
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> >I've had my DL4 for a couple of weeks now and have noticed that it seems
> >to feedback and distort very easily

I run my DL4 after the line level output from my guitar effects/preamp and I
did get some distortion.  I simply turned down the output of my effects
unit, compensated at the mixer, and all is well.  It wasn't a major
adjustment, just a slight one.

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Subject: Re: DL4 dissappointment
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> It's really not much of a loop machine, unlike the
> Headrush, for instance, which is better-suited IMO.

In all fairness, the dl4 is not designed primarily to be a loop machine.
It's supposed to be a delay modeler.  Given that it's $200, I think it's a
fantastic delay modeler.  As a pure looping machine?  For $200: I'd still
buy it.  Put 'em both together (delay + looper), for $200.  Yep, still worth
it!

It all really comes down to your own needs.

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From: "renaldo mckim" <renaldo@renaldo.freeserve.co.uk>
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thanks to all that answered but i think im going to stick with the EMG's
because i used to have seymour duncans on the steinberger(composite
neck/with custom made mahogany body) and it was still harsh sounding and i
have just tried a set of gibson pickups that my mate had lying around with
the same result.
i think that i should explain that i get a good lead, crunch rhythm and
picked arpeggio type sound (?) its just when i strum that i get this harsh
sort of overtone and at first i thought it could be the EMG's but i have had
EMG's on a wooden necked guitar and they sounded just fine but recently as i
have a built in GK2A pickup i tried the roland vg8. now the vg8 should sound
just fine with anything but i was still getting this harsh trebly(spelling?)
zing through the sound so it must be the composite neck. i have
raised/lowered the action and tried different things but it still sounds the
same (no truss rod for adjustments!!!!). oh well i will just have to play
music without strums or get a wooden neck of some sort.
thanks again
Renaldo




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From: Bret <echoplex@yahoo.com>
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--- Phaedebk@aol.com wrote:
>     The RMC's are going to work out a bit better
> than the Hex as they are 
> going to be set directly on the string, and they
> aren't going to have to deal 
> with the amount of crosstalk which is normal for the
> Hex (magnetic, GK-2a) 
> pickups which are out there.  

RMC's are hex pickups, hex piezo.  GK-2a are hex
inductive.  Crosstalk in these hex pickups has been
discussed at great length in the Roland VG-8 mailing
list.  Anecdotally, from what I see on the VG-8
mailing list, crosstalk seems to be reported on hex
piezo's more often than hex inductive pickups.

Here is one thread in the VG-8 archives that deals
with one mans quest to eliminate apparent adjacent
string crosstalk in a piezo equipped guitar into a
VG-8:

http://www.egroups.com/group/vg-8/showthread.html?start=4238

Many VG-8 posts have dealt with apparent crosstalk
issues.  I say apparent because some have found that
what they thought was crosstalk was just brain
confusion using pitch shifted patches while also
hearing some acoustic sound directly from the strings.
 This confusion can be eliminated by listening
directly to the pitch shifted sound via closed back
headphones.  True adjacent string crosstalk can be
seen via the VG-8 individual string output level
display, or tuning display.

True crosstalk problems have been noted using piezos
(as seen in the previously referenced VG-8 thread). 
You will note that some of the emails are from Richard
McClish, founder of RMC.  Based on his comments,
clearly he has seen and studied mechanical crosstalk
in hex piezo equipped instruments.  Richard has also
noted that because of piezo's high output impedance
(~10pf), bundling 6 unbuffered piezo signals (in
cables) allows for much electrical crosstalk due to
cable capacitance.  Buffering the piezo outputs
reduces this dramatically, if not making it completely
inaudible.

The RMC's are noted as being an excellent pickup,
albeit expensive. 

Some users have noted apparent crosstalk in GK-2a
equipped guitars.  At least one of these reports
alleges he was able to eliminate the crosstalk by
changing how the Gk-2a was mounted.

I have used a GK-2a pickup on a Gibson 335 style
guitar with no apparent crosstalk observed with a VG-8
or GR-09.  I now use a GK-2a internal kit on a solid
body Ibanez with no apparent crosstalk problems.  I
play with 2 other musicians using Gk-2a pickups solid
body guitars into VG-8 systems with no apparent
crosstalk.

I make these comments to note that crosstalk can be
confusing, can be mechanical or electrical, and may
vary depending on how the hex pickups (either style)
are mounted, and wired.

IMO, the GK-2a is a fine, cheap hex pickup, with no
inherent crosstalk issues when installed properly.

bret




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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"EMUSIC," an electronic, ambient, and space music show, airs each =
Thursday
at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem, PA and 93.9 FM in
Easton, PA and Phillipsburg, NJ.

                                Show #152        February 17, 2000.

On this show, I continued the month-long focus on American synthesist =
Michael
Garrison.  Tonight's Feature CD at Midnight was "Live" Volume 2 on the
Windspell label.  The music of Vir Unis and Saul Stokes was played to =
promote
their upcoming performances at the next Gathering.


ARTIST                  TRACK                    ALBUM (label)
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
11:04 pm
Nemesis                 Tango Fornax 9991        Shy Archeology =
(Freeride)
Frank Specht          Wanderer im schwarzen Wind Sebastian Im Traum =
(Invisible Shadows)
Sante                   Cetacea                  Into Light (Sante =
Music)
Stokes                  Zona                     Washed in Mercury =
(Hypnos)
Vir Unis                The Drift Inside         The Drift Inside =
(GreenHouse)
Max Corbacho            Quietness                Vestiges (Free Records)
Ma Ja Le & James Johnson  Seed                   Live Under a Harvest =
Moon (Zero Music)
VA [Dogmatic]           Dogmatic                 Sequences No. 22

12:00 am
Michael Garrison        Daydreams                "Live" Volume 2 =
(Windspell Music)
Michael Garrison        The Elliptical Sun       "Live" Volume 2 =
(Windspell Music)
Michael Garrison       Beyond the Cosmic Horizon "Live" Volume 2 =
(Windspell Music)
Michael Garrison    To the Other Side of the Sky "Live" Volume 2 =
(Windspell Music)
Michael Garrison        The Search               "Live" Volume 2 =
(Windspell Music)
Michael Garrison        Crystal Moon             "Live" Volume 2 =
(Windspell Music)
Michael Garrison        Theme to the Earth-Star  "Live" Volume 2 =
(Windspell Music)
Michael Garrison        Airborn                  "Live" Volume 2 =
(Windspell Music)
Michael Garrison        Everybody's Warrior      "Live" Volume 2 =
(Windspell Music)
Michael Garrison        Escape                   "Live" Volume 2 =
(Windspell Music)
Michael Garrison        Landsdowne Cruise        "Live" Volume 2 =
(Windspell Music)

1:00 am

 * =3D exerpt
VA =3D Various Artists (compilation)

On the next EMUSIC, I'll continue the month-long focus on the American =
synthesist
Michael Garrison.  The feature CD at Midnight will be Brave New Worlds =
on the
Windspell label.

------=_NextPart_000_008B_01BF7A67.F64991E0
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&quot;EMUSIC,&quot; an electronic, =
ambient, and=20
space music show, airs each Thursday<BR>at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, =
Allentown=20
and Bethlehem, PA and 93.9 FM in<BR>Easton, PA and Phillipsburg,=20
NJ.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Show #152&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; February 17,=20
2000.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>On this show, I continued the =
month-long focus=20
on American synthesist Michael<BR>Garrison.&nbsp; Tonight's Feature CD =
at=20
Midnight was &quot;Live&quot; Volume 2 on the<BR>Windspell label.&nbsp; =
The=20
music of Vir Unis and Saul Stokes was played to promote<BR>their =
upcoming=20
performances at the next Gathering.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2><BR>ARTIST&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
TRACK&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR>11:04=20
pm<BR>Nemesis&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Tango Fornax 9991&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Shy =
Archeology=20
(Freeride)<BR>Frank =
Specht&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Wanderer im schwarzen Wind Sebastian Im Traum (Invisible=20
Shadows)<BR>Sante&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Cetacea&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Into Light (Sante=20
Music)<BR>Stokes&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Zona&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Washed in Mercury (Hypnos)<BR>Vir=20
Unis&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
The Drift Inside&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The =
Drift=20
Inside (GreenHouse)<BR>Max=20
Corbacho&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;=20
Quietness&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Vestiges (Free Records)<BR>Ma Ja Le &amp; James Johnson&nbsp;=20
Seed&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Live Under a Harvest Moon (Zero Music)<BR>VA=20
[Dogmatic]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Dogmatic&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Sequences No. 22</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>12:00 am<BR>Michael=20
Garrison&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Daydreams&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&quot;Live&quot; Volume 2 (Windspell Music)<BR>Michael=20
Garrison&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The Elliptical=20
Sun&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;Live&quot; Volume 2 =
(Windspell=20
Music)<BR>Michael Garrison&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Beyond =
the Cosmic=20
Horizon &quot;Live&quot; Volume 2 (Windspell Music)<BR>Michael=20
Garrison&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; To the Other Side of the Sky &quot;Live&quot; =
Volume=20
2 (Windspell Music)<BR>Michael=20
Garrison&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The=20
Search&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&quot;Live&quot; Volume 2 (Windspell Music)<BR>Michael=20
Garrison&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Crystal=20
Moon&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;=20
&quot;Live&quot; Volume 2 (Windspell Music)<BR>Michael=20
Garrison&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Theme to the =
Earth-Star&nbsp;=20
&quot;Live&quot; Volume 2 (Windspell Music)<BR>Michael=20
Garrison&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Airborn&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&quot;Live&quot; Volume 2 (Windspell Music)<BR>Michael=20
Garrison&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Everybody's=20
Warrior&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;Live&quot; Volume 2 =
(Windspell=20
Music)<BR>Michael Garrison&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Escape&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&quot;Live&quot; Volume 2 (Windspell Music)<BR>Michael=20
Garrison&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Landsdowne=20
Cruise&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;Live&quot; Volume =
2=20
(Windspell Music)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>1:00 am</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;* =3D exerpt<BR>VA =3D Various =
Artists=20
(compilation)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>On the next EMUSIC, I'll continue =
the month-long=20
focus on the American synthesist<BR>Michael Garrison.&nbsp; The feature =
CD at=20
Midnight will be Brave New Worlds on the<BR>Windspell=20
label.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_008B_01BF7A67.F64991E0--

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sat Feb 19 00:20:45 2000
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From: "Zachary West" <zetor11@hotmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Midi question.....??????
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 21:04:39 PST
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Bonus prize to who ever can simplfy these sytems..... i am trying to hook up 
a DJX to a Su700 through the Midi system.... I realize that the system 
probably needs changes in the Su700 in the input slot... but i have try to 
manipulate the Midi system on the Su and to avail.... there are three 
parameters to flip through but still the book pisses me off, and to get a 
different versioin would seriously help the mental cavity of what i am 
looking for.   The book is really pissing me off.  Also the averigatroron on 
the Djx... i cant seem to change the default of the bounce and if any 
additional suggestions arise... i know.... yamaha needs to work on there 
customer serivce.... please.... special cookie from the monster who does....
ZJW


>From: "Bill Fox" <billfox@fast.net>
>Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>To: <Undisclosed.Recipients@post3.fast.net>
>Subject: EMUSIC Playlist
>Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 23:28:57 -0500
>
>"EMUSIC," an electronic, ambient, and space music show, airs each Thursday
>at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem, PA and 93.9 FM in
>Easton, PA and Phillipsburg, NJ.
>
>                                 Show #152        February 17, 2000.
>
>On this show, I continued the month-long focus on American synthesist 
>Michael
>Garrison.  Tonight's Feature CD at Midnight was "Live" Volume 2 on the
>Windspell label.  The music of Vir Unis and Saul Stokes was played to 
>promote
>their upcoming performances at the next Gathering.
>
>
>ARTIST                  TRACK                    ALBUM (label)
>======================= ======================== 
>==============================
>11:04 pm
>Nemesis                 Tango Fornax 9991        Shy Archeology (Freeride)
>Frank Specht          Wanderer im schwarzen Wind Sebastian Im Traum 
>(Invisible Shadows)
>Sante                   Cetacea                  Into Light (Sante Music)
>Stokes                  Zona                     Washed in Mercury (Hypnos)
>Vir Unis                The Drift Inside         The Drift Inside 
>(GreenHouse)
>Max Corbacho            Quietness                Vestiges (Free Records)
>Ma Ja Le & James Johnson  Seed                   Live Under a Harvest Moon 
>(Zero Music)
>VA [Dogmatic]           Dogmatic                 Sequences No. 22
>
>12:00 am
>Michael Garrison        Daydreams                "Live" Volume 2 (Windspell 
>Music)
>Michael Garrison        The Elliptical Sun       "Live" Volume 2 (Windspell 
>Music)
>Michael Garrison       Beyond the Cosmic Horizon "Live" Volume 2 (Windspell 
>Music)
>Michael Garrison    To the Other Side of the Sky "Live" Volume 2 (Windspell 
>Music)
>Michael Garrison        The Search               "Live" Volume 2 (Windspell 
>Music)
>Michael Garrison        Crystal Moon             "Live" Volume 2 (Windspell 
>Music)
>Michael Garrison        Theme to the Earth-Star  "Live" Volume 2 (Windspell 
>Music)
>Michael Garrison        Airborn                  "Live" Volume 2 (Windspell 
>Music)
>Michael Garrison        Everybody's Warrior      "Live" Volume 2 (Windspell 
>Music)
>Michael Garrison        Escape                   "Live" Volume 2 (Windspell 
>Music)
>Michael Garrison        Landsdowne Cruise        "Live" Volume 2 (Windspell 
>Music)
>
>1:00 am
>
>  * = exerpt
>VA = Various Artists (compilation)
>
>On the next EMUSIC, I'll continue the month-long focus on the American 
>synthesist
>Michael Garrison.  The feature CD at Midnight will be Brave New Worlds on 
>the
>Windspell label.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sat Feb 19 00:37:51 2000
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From: "Peter Shindler" <shindler@mediaone.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Boss GT-3 manual online?
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 00:22:28 -0500
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Hey, I just learned that the used Boss GT-3 I'm expecting in the mail next
week will not have the owner's manual included.  Does anyone know where I
can find it on the web?  (Roland's website doesn't seem to have it)


Peter

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sat Feb 19 09:04:30 2000
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From: JTstudio66@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 08:59:12 EST
Subject: Re: Boss GT-3 manual online?
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You can order them directly from Roland by phone, probably around $10.00 to 
$15.00. You can find the phone number on the RolandUS  website.

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sat Feb 19 14:22:05 2000
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From: Phaedebk@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 13:36:19 EST
Subject: Re: OT: crosstalk on hex pickups
To: echoplex@yahoo.com
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Brett,

    Thanks for the correction!  Though I do have to disagree with you as far 
as performance goes on piezo vs. magnetic relative to a GR-30, G50, and Axon 
AX-100SB...  My main point of contention is that I've honestly had much 
better results with the RMC's than I have had with either the AX101 or the 
GK-2a pickups.  Granted, it could also be an issue of personal preference, 
too...  I really enjoy many of the "side" benefits of the RMC's on my guitar, 
especially the "acoustic tone" which is generated if you blend the magnetic 
pickups totally out.  In the end, with the RMC's the majour advantage I've 
experienced has been with far superiour tracking; less note drop outs, less 
warbling, less note volume spikes, etc. relative to the inductive version of 
pickups out there.
    
    Haven't really tried out a VG-8 just yet...  (To be honest, I've never 
really seen the use, as I'm happy playing a doubleneck in order to get a 
decent 12 string sound.)  Liked yutzing around with the different "pickup" 
configuration designs and sounds, but that was about it.

    I'm probably repeating myself, but the one thing that I can easily say 
using just the GR-30 as a test bed is that with a GK-2a and RMC's on the same 
guitar is that the RMC's do a much better job as far as tracking goes.  About 
the only thing which is semi-ouched on the RMC's is the price and the fact 
that they won't go into every guitar out there.  
    Where I have to totally agree with you is when you make the point of 
saying that the Roland GK-2a is a worthwhile less expensive way to go in 
order to get into the synthesizer guitar field.  Something about their 
ability to be mounted on just about any instrument out there.

    All in all, the important thing is that there are lots of choices out 
there for this "instrument."

        Lee-ohki. 

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sat Feb 19 15:55:01 2000
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From: "Greg S" <g716@hotmail.com>
References: <200001270434.XAA08765@hpamraaa.compuserve.com> <20000127201553.75499.qmail@hotmail.com> <38918DB0.8A1EE00@stevens-tech.edu> <000a01bf698d$3cbd3000$9013083d@dennis> <20000129002607.914.qmail@hotmail.com> <003d01bf6a02$677eb820$c913083d@dennis>
Subject: GR-30 for auction
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 12:09:11 -0800
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Selling my GR-30.  Perfect condition.

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=264744024

Opening bid $300.

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sat Feb 19 18:06:42 2000
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From: Christine Bard <lerocher@pipeline.com>
Subject: belated Headrush opine/veiled query
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-------Javier Miranda wrote:---------------
>Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 23:24:53 -0800
>From: "Javier Miranda V." <gnominus@earthling.net>
>To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>Subject: RE: Akai Headrush review
>Message-ID: <LOBBJCEICBFKLACEKDADKEMECDAA.gnominus@earthling.net>
>
>  | options) will be put through it's paces by a dedicated loophead.
>You meant "...will be put through its paces by..."
>
>Looking forward to reading the review...
>
>  | -----Original Message-----
>  | From: K. Douglas Baldwin [mailto:dbaldwin@suffolk.lib.ny.us]
>  | Sent: Monday 28 June 1999 10:55 AM
>  | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com; Loopers-Delight-d@annihilist.com
>  | Subject: Akai Headrush review
>  |



Mr. Miranda's musings about the possessive form of a neuter noun re-opened a
subject heading that I missed the first time around:  user reviews of the
Akai Headrush.
Probably no one thinks this is news, but, possibly, someone has resolved
some of my problems with the differences between the modal functions with
the pedal.  I find myself recommending it, but always with some caveats.
(Which go well with a good Stilton) Anyway, here are both of my 2 cents:

First,
 its a very useful box with which I can create great dimension in sounds
with the tape head delay feature.  I can make one percussive hit evolve into
a cavernous big boom through timed tape head settings. 
The digital Loop mode is brilliant, as well.   


The problems I have encountered involve the difference between the 
(ultra clean, clear) signal in the Loop mode and the Tape Echo mode 
(less pronounced, but still and issue, in the Delay mode.)  
It is a difference that has been so profound that a seperate sound/
level check is required for the two extremes. 
I therefore cannot swing between these functions without causing 
extreme volume/clarity shifts in the output. 

(I have to set my mixer and compresser to different settings. 
eg., I need a lot of gain on the Tape Echo setting and then no gain 
in the Loop mode. Eq must be different for the same instrument, 
as well.  This means that I have to think about my instrumentation 
and orchestration in terms of working around this issue.  This 
translates as a limitation.) 

Also, the sound person might protectively back off my entire signal 
if this discrepancy is discovered--even during the performance, so 
that when I return to the lower echo/delay signal output, my sound 
will be buried. 

Outside of the Loop Moode, the sound regeneration is grainy/murky. 
It is supposed to sound like an "analogue" tape player  -- but it is 
a model of an analogue tape player that needs a thorough head cleaning.  
  
That can be worked with, somewhat, with eq and instrumentation/pedal 
sequence choices, so the Headrush is a great pedal to have.

Best regards,

Christine Bard





                                 Christine Bard
                                0~>~<>~><~<>~<~0

             I replaced the headlights in my car with strobe lights.
                   Now it looks like I'm the only one moving. 
                                -Steven Wright




           

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From: "Javier Miranda V." <gnominus@earthling.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Korg D8; Extra HDD
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 21:36:26 -0800
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Anybody knows what kind of HDD and how to hook it up to Korg D8?

1.6 GB is too tiny.  I need some extra room.  I heard that you can hook up
an extra HDD, but it's got to be stand-alone, with its own electricity, etc.

If anybody has had experience with this, please pass it on.

Thanks.

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Subject: hi
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Howdy
We are seeking business contacts, Trade leads , for Australian =
Aboriginal Art related products.
In particular we are seeking Store owners, distributors and Importers.
Didgeridoos,artefacts,paintings by some of  Australias more prominant, =
Aboriginal Artists.
Thanks dennis Longstaff
Corroboree Exports Australia
http://corrobex.com

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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Howdy</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>We are seeking business contacts, =
Trade leads ,=20
for Australian Aboriginal Art related products.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>In particular we are seeking Store =
owners,=20
distributors and Importers.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Didgeridoos,artefacts,paintings by some of&nbsp; =
Australias=20
more prominant, Aboriginal Artists.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Thanks dennis Longstaff</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Corroboree Exports =
Australia</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://corrobex.com">http://corrobex.com</A></FONT></DIV></BODY><=
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From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sun Feb 20 02:55:07 2000
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Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 23:48:58 -0800
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: DJ'ed
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At 11:46 PM -0800 2/17/00, Mats Eriksson (ECS) wrote:
>Well,
>I must definitely have the earliest software on the OB plex (don't know
>which one yet, have to check it out, bought it secondhand). Because this
>(as you described below) just doesn't work. Jam Man does it (sync out) but
>you can't do it in echo/delay mode, which I m after. At least not with
>original software.

Hi Mats-

All of the echoplex software versions ever released had this function, and
it is very easy to use. Are you sure you had Sync set to Out?

also, on the echoplex sync works the same in delay mode as it does in loop
mode. (as does pretty much every other feature.)

kim


>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Kim Flint [mailto:kflint@annihilist.com]
>Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 6:09 PM
>To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>Subject: RE: DJ'ed
>
>
>At 6:46 AM -0800 2/17/00, Mats Eriksson (ECS) wrote:
>>Ohh sorry, I meant the other way around:
>>Whatever sample, loop I make, it should generate a MIDI clock OUT based on
>>the looping points, instantly.
>
>both the echoplex and the jamman have midi clock sync in and out. They work
>just like you want.
>
>>And then you should be able to subdivide, or multiply by that PBM.
>>
>>Thats my problem with Jam Man and Echoplex. They're only able to DIVIDE it
>>down, once you've set
>>the loop points or echo/delay points. Once it sends out a clock, one
>>should be able to MULTIPLY the
>>echo/delay or loop point on Jam Man/Exhoplex without changing the MIDI
>>clock out to, let's say a drum machine. Then the drum machine would play a
>>8 bar, but you put in a 16 or 32 bar loop that will stay in place
>>regardless, and not drift out of time after 64 bars... >or more interesting,
>>a triplet of that, to create polyrhythmical lines...
>>/mats
>
>This is exactly how the OB echoplex works for midi sync! For example, if
>you have a loop playing and sending out midi clock, you can use the
>multiply function to make it some multiple number longer. (2x, 3x, 4x, 27x,
>whatever.) The midi clock stays the same, based on the basic loop length
>you started with. But your loop is now multiplied longer.
>
>You use the 8ths/beat parameter to set how long your basic cycle is in
>relation to the midi clock. (2 bars, for example). This basically sets the
>tempo for you.
>
>If you sync to midi clock in, this multiplying happens automatically. So if
>have it set for 8-beats/2bar loops, and you leave the loop record going
>longer than 2 bars, it automatically notes the 2 bar point as your basic
>cycle and begins doing that multiply function for you automatically.
>(you'll see the multiple display count up as 2 bars passes, in this case.)
>Whenever you end the record, it finishes up the current cycle. In this way,
>you can easily record long loops in sync to midi clock. It's very flexible
>and totally designed for this live, real-time sort of use. The machine
>takes care of everything for you and makes it very simple to use.
>
>And in the next software version, we will revolutionize sync with some
>really great new ideas! ;-)
>
>kim
>
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: johnmcc@aldiscon.ie [mailto:johnmcc@aldiscon.ie]
>>Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 3:33 PM
>>To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>>Subject: DJ'ed
>>
>>
>>
>>> I have waited (too!) long for a looping device that sends MIDI clocks to
>>whatever sample you've made

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | 


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Are you people on Looper's having trouble with unsolicited mail?=20
It just keeps coming.
Steven
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Dennis Longstaff=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com=20
  Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2000 5:53 AM
  Subject: hi


  Howdy
  We are seeking business contacts, Trade leads , for Australian =
Aboriginal Art related products.
  In particular we are seeking Store owners, distributors and Importers.
  Didgeridoos,artefacts,paintings by some of  Australias more prominant, =
Aboriginal Artists.
  Thanks dennis Longstaff
  Corroboree Exports Australia
  http://corrobex.com

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<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Are you people on Looper's having =
trouble with=20
unsolicited mail? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It just keeps coming.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Steven</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:corrobex@dove.net.au" =
title=3Dcorrobex@dove.net.au>Dennis=20
  Longstaff</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com"=20
  =
title=3DLoopers-Delight@annihilist.com>Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com</A>=
 </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 20, 2000 =
5:53=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> hi</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Howdy</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>We are seeking business contacts, =
Trade leads=20
  , for Australian Aboriginal Art related products.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>In particular we are seeking Store =
owners,=20
  distributors and Importers.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Didgeridoos,artefacts,paintings by some of&nbsp; =
Australias=20
  more prominant, Aboriginal Artists.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Thanks dennis =
Longstaff</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Corroboree Exports =
Australia</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://corrobex.com">http://corrobex.com</A></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQ=
UOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Dennis Longstaff" <corrobex@dove.net.au>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: hi
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 07:38:29 +1030
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What does your message mean?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Steven Woods <swoods@comcen.com.au>
    To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
    Date: Sunday, 20 February 2000 7:17
    Subject: Re: hi
   =20
   =20
    Are you people on Looper's having trouble with unsolicited mail?=20
    It just keeps coming.
    Steven
        ----- Original Message -----=20
        From: Dennis Longstaff=20
        To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com=20
        Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2000 5:53 AM
        Subject: hi
       =20
       =20
        Howdy
        We are seeking business contacts, Trade leads , for Australian =
Aboriginal Art related products.
        In particular we are seeking Store owners, distributors and =
Importers.
        Didgeridoos,artefacts,paintings by some of  Australias more =
prominant, Aboriginal Artists.
        Thanks dennis Longstaff
        Corroboree Exports Australia
        http://corrobex.com

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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 =
Transitional//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>

</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>What does your message =
mean?</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
    </B>Steven Woods &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:swoods@comcen.com.au">swoods@comcen.com.au</A>&gt;<BR><B>T=
o:=20
    </B><A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com">Loopers-Delight@annihilist=
.com</A>=20
    &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com">Loopers-Delight@annihilist=
.com</A>&gt;<BR><B>Date:=20
    </B>Sunday, 20 February 2000 7:17<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re:=20
    hi<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Are you people on Looper's having =
trouble with=20
    unsolicited mail? </FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It just keeps coming.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Steven</FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
        <DIV=20
        style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
        <A href=3D"mailto:corrobex@dove.net.au" =
title=3Dcorrobex@dove.net.au>Dennis=20
        Longstaff</A> </DIV>
        <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
        href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com"=20
        =
title=3DLoopers-Delight@annihilist.com>Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com</A>=
=20
        </DIV>
        <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February =
20, 2000=20
        5:53 AM</DIV>
        <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> hi</DIV>
        <DIV><BR></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Howdy</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>We are seeking business =
contacts, Trade=20
        leads , for Australian Aboriginal Art related =
products.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>In particular we are seeking =
Store=20
        owners, distributors and Importers.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Didgeridoos,artefacts,paintings by some =
of&nbsp;=20
        Australias more prominant, Aboriginal Artists.</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Thanks dennis =
Longstaff</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Corroboree Exports=20
Australia</FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><A=20
        =
href=3D"http://corrobex.com">http://corrobex.com</A></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQ=
UOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: hi
In-reply-to: <002d01bf7b78$b40e6f00$64f538cb@oemcomputer>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
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The list is set so nobody can post unless they are subscribed to the list.
Which makes spamming the list mostly impossible except for the truly
dedicated spammer.

This particular mail is from somebody who actually subscribed to the list
to post it. I guess he's not quite clear on what the list topic is. Of
course, many people who post here all the time don't seem to know what the
list topic is either. :-)

kim


At 12:01 AM -0800 2/20/00, Steven Woods wrote:
>    Are you people on Looper's having trouble with  unsolicited mail?  It
>just keeps coming. Steven
>
>   ----- Original Message -----    From:
><mailto:corrobex@dove.net.au>Dennis    Longstaff    To:
>Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com    Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2000 5:53
>AM   Subject: hi
>   Howdy   We are seeking business contacts, Trade leads    , for
>Australian Aboriginal Art related products.   In particular we are seeking
>Store owners,    distributors and Importers.
>Didgeridoos,artefacts,paintings by some of  Australias    more prominant,
>Aboriginal Artists.   Thanks dennis Longstaff   Corroboree Exports
>Australia   http://corrobex.com


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | 


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Subject: Re: hi
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 21:15:02 +1100
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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We received an email which said we could receive spam from the loopers =
mail list I don't know if that still applies but I have had a few come =
through this afternoon
Steven
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Dennis Longstaff=20
  To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com=20
  Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2000 8:08 AM
  Subject: Re: hi


  What does your message mean?
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Steven Woods <swoods@comcen.com.au>
    To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
    Date: Sunday, 20 February 2000 7:17
    Subject: Re: hi


    Are you people on Looper's having trouble with unsolicited mail?=20
    It just keeps coming.
    Steven
      ----- Original Message -----=20
      From: Dennis Longstaff=20
      To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com=20
      Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2000 5:53 AM
      Subject: hi


      Howdy
      We are seeking business contacts, Trade leads , for Australian =
Aboriginal Art related products.
      In particular we are seeking Store owners, distributors and =
Importers.
      Didgeridoos,artefacts,paintings by some of  Australias more =
prominant, Aboriginal Artists.
      Thanks dennis Longstaff
      Corroboree Exports Australia
      http://corrobex.com

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 =
Transitional//EN">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We received an email which said we =
could receive=20
spam from the loopers mail list I don't know if that still applies but I =
have=20
had a few come through this afternoon</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Steven</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:corrobex@dove.net.au" =
title=3Dcorrobex@dove.net.au>Dennis=20
  Longstaff</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com"=20
  =
title=3DLoopers-Delight@annihilist.com>Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com</A>=
 </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 20, 2000 =
8:08=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: hi</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>What does your message =
mean?</FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>-----Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
    </B>Steven Woods &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:swoods@comcen.com.au">swoods@comcen.com.au</A>&gt;<BR><B>T=
o:=20
    </B><A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com">Loopers-Delight@annihilist=
.com</A>=20
    &lt;<A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com">Loopers-Delight@annihilist=
.com</A>&gt;<BR><B>Date:=20
    </B>Sunday, 20 February 2000 7:17<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re:=20
    hi<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Are you people on Looper's having =
trouble with=20
    unsolicited mail? </FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It just keeps coming.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Steven</FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE=20
    style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
      <DIV=20
      style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
      <A href=3D"mailto:corrobex@dove.net.au" =
title=3Dcorrobex@dove.net.au>Dennis=20
      Longstaff</A> </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
      href=3D"mailto:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com"=20
      =
title=3DLoopers-Delight@annihilist.com>Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com</A>=
=20
      </DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 20, =
2000 5:53=20
      AM</DIV>
      <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> hi</DIV>
      <DIV><BR></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Howdy</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>We are seeking business =
contacts, Trade=20
      leads , for Australian Aboriginal Art related =
products.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>In particular we are seeking =
Store owners,=20
      distributors and Importers.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Didgeridoos,artefacts,paintings by some =
of&nbsp;=20
      Australias more prominant, Aboriginal Artists.</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Thanks dennis =
Longstaff</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Corroboree Exports =
Australia</FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><A=20
      =
href=3D"http://corrobex.com">http://corrobex.com</A></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQ=
UOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BF7BE7.8D4DA100--

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sun Feb 20 07:32:13 2000
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From: Hawkeye255@aol.com
Message-ID: <9e.15d7074.25e13411@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 07:12:01 EST
Subject: Re: Korg D8; Extra HDD
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
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<< Anybody know what kind of HDD and how to hook it up to Korg D8?  >>

I've installed 4.3 gig drives in Korg D-8's and Roland VS-880's, replacing 
the originals. An external SCSI drive should work as well.  Probably not 
"wide SCSI" or "ultra-wide SCSI" though.

let me know if I can fix you up,
                                hawkeye  

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Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:44:08 -0800
From: Claude voit <c.voit@vtx.ch>
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the url is http://www.redsound.com

Claude

Graham wrote:
> 
> Check out www.redsystems.com
> With the yoyager you can get MIDI clock to sync up EDP's etc direct from
> 
> your turntables!
> Got to be good
> 
> ; name=""
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64
> 
> LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLTA3MzU5MjI3MTcxMTU3

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yes, I don't like it and tell them to -uck off.

>From: "Steven Woods" <swoods@comcen.com.au>
>Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>Subject: Re: hi
>Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 19:01:27 +1100
>
>Are you people on Looper's having trouble with unsolicited mail?
>It just keeps coming.
>Steven
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Dennis Longstaff
>   To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>   Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2000 5:53 AM
>   Subject: hi
>
>
>   Howdy
>   We are seeking business contacts, Trade leads , for Australian 
>Aboriginal Art related products.
>   In particular we are seeking Store owners, distributors and Importers.
>   Didgeridoos,artefacts,paintings by some of  Australias more prominant, 
>Aboriginal Artists.
>   Thanks dennis Longstaff
>   Corroboree Exports Australia
>   http://corrobex.com

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sun Feb 20 11:47:46 2000
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: David Myers <dmgraph@pulsewidth.com>
Subject: Re: Korg D8; Extra HDD
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Interesting.  I called Korg and was told the internal drive was
"proprietary" and that fitting a new internal drive was impossible.  Hmph.
I would have greatly preferred internal at the time (no longer have the
D-8).  But an external 4.3 gig purchased from Club Mac worked wonderfully.
No technical expertise necessary, just a SCSI cable.  I don't think the D-8
can format more than 4 megs, so don't waste money on a huge drive.  But
that's something like 70 minutes of 8-track time.  Oh yeah, you can connect
more than one drive if you're really greedy....

David Myers

><< Anybody know what kind of HDD and how to hook it up to Korg D8?  >>
>
>I've installed 4.3 gig drives in Korg D-8's and Roland VS-880's, replacing
>the originals. An external SCSI drive should work as well.  Probably not
>"wide SCSI" or "ultra-wide SCSI" though.
>
>let me know if I can fix you up,
>                                hawkeye



From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sun Feb 20 12:57:23 2000
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From: patrick Midot <vik@club-internet.fr>
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: leni stern
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any one got a copy of the guitar player issue (about 2 yrs ago) with an
extensive leni stern interview & master class?
scan or photocopies of the article most welcome!
thanks
patrick.

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It's the price of fame...

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Woods [mailto:swoods@comcen.com.au]
Sent: Sunday 20 February 2000 12:01 AM
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: hi


Are you people on Looper's having trouble with unsolicited mail? 
It just keeps coming.
Steven
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Dennis Longstaff 
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com 
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2000 5:53 AM
Subject: hi


Howdy
We are seeking business contacts, ...

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sun Feb 20 14:13:37 2000
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Message-ID: <38B037BA.2E7E7350@pop.agri.ch>
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 19:51:39 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs=20Turi=F1o?= <j-turino@pop.agri.ch>
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Organization: i45
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To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: jamman & EPD
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Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format.
--------------C42FC2BE507DFF1C51915B3A
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hello

i'm working with a jamman but want to buy an (additional) echoplex. is
anyone experienced in synchronicing the two loop machines?

jes=FAs

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begin:vcard 
n:Turiño ;Jesús
tel;fax:+41 41 761 33 91 (G)
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org:i45 Zug
adr:;;Waldstätterstrasse 16;Luzern;Luzern;6003;Switzerland
version:2.1
email;internet:j-turino@pop.agri.ch
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--------------C42FC2BE507DFF1C51915B3A--

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sun Feb 20 17:23:45 2000
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From: "Bill Fox" <billfox@fast.net>
To: "New Age Voice" <editor@newagevoice.com>,
        "New Age Voice" <ristar@mindspring.com>
Subject: EMUSIC Top 20 Report to NAV for February
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 17:13:19 -0500
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WDIY 88.1 FM "EMUSIC" Top 20 report to New Age Voice for February, 2000.
Shows #148 to #151; 20-January-2000 to 17-February-2000
Reported in non-ranked order.
Compiled by Bill Fox, billfox@fast.net

CONTACT:   billfox@fast.net

ARTIST - ALBUM TITLE - LABEL
============================
A Produce & M Griffin - Altara - Hypnos
Dave Fulton - Hard Particles - Eurock
Djam Karet - Suspension & Displacement - Cuneiform
Frank Specht - Sebastian Im Traum - Invisible Shadows
Horchata & Twine - Resource - AdAstra
Jeff Greinke - Lost Terrain - Hypnos
John Flomer - Night in the Vapor Jungle - Spotted Peccary
Kevin Keller - Pendulum - Lektronic Soundscapes
Klaus Schulze - Trailer - Manikin
Lightwave (fr NAV 2/00) Cantus Umbrarum - Horizon Music
Ma Ja Le & James Johnson - Live Under a Harvest Moon - Zero Music
Max Corbacho - Vestiges - Free Records
Michael Garrison - "Live" Volume 2 - Windspell Music
Michael Garrison - Aurora Dawn - Windspell Music
Michael Garrison - Eclipse - Windspell Music
Nemesis - Shy Archeology - Freeride
Sam Rosenthal - Before the Buildings Fell - Projekt
StillPoint - Maps Without Edges - City of Tribes
Vir Unis - The Drift Inside - Green House
wEirD - A Different Kind of Normal - Neu Harmony

Bill         billfox@fast.net            http://wdiyfm.org
============================================================
Host of EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show.  Thursdays at
11pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem and 93.9 FM in Easton and
Phillipsburg.  Email me if you wish to submit music for airplay
consideration.

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From: AUBC Used Book Search <books11@freewwweb.com>
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Introducing AUBC Used Book Search - the easy way to get your hands on that 
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> > by author, or title; used, or out of print books. 
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--dear list:  What about the Peavey filter that was reviewed in Keyboard 4 years ago ? is it still in production?

On Wed, 16 Feb 2000 16:23:50   Larry Tremblay wrote:
>Like unearthly, f*cked up noise, in a good way
>(I think)
>
>- Larry
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Chris Chovit" <cho@newdream.net>
>To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 3:47 PM
>Subject: Re: The Sherman Filterbank
>
>
>> 
>> >>- is it noisy?
>> >
>> >yes. very, very noisy.
>> >
>> 
>> That't too bad!  It was sounding so good up to this point....can you
>> elaborate on the noise?  THanks!
>> 
>> - chris
>> 
>> 
>
>


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From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 21 02:04:29 2000
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From: Hawkeye255@aol.com
Message-ID: <9c.1c7bea9.25e23908@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 01:45:28 EST
Subject: Re: Korg D8; Extra HDD
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
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<< Interesting.  I called Korg and was told the internal drive was 
"proprietary" and that fitting a new internal drive was impossible.>>

    Funny, that's exactly what Roland said when their VS-880 came out with a  
540 meg hard drive.  But I upgraded mine to 4.3 gig anyway (and several 
others on the VS-880 list).  Check it out: I believe those discussions and my 
instructions are kept in some little FAQ archive now, since I regularly get 
email from people still wanting to do that upgrade themselves.  My "15 
minutes of fame".  ;-)  A little more complicated job than the Korg D-8, 
though.  You have an internal SCSI bus and an EIDE bus available to you in 
the Rolands and a drive bay that will hold a 3.5" drive.  The problem is, the 
power supply won't tolerate any drive that draws more than 10 amps (more or 
less) on startup.  So the 2.5" Toshiba drives I bought from Siliconel were 
the perfect solution.  And that doesn't always happen. BTW, Javier: the D-8 
upgrade is a piece a cake.  If it takes you ten minutes, you're movin' awful 
slow.  ;-)
    hawkeye

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 21 04:30:52 2000
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From: "MediaOne" <clifsound@mediaone.net>
To: "Loopers List" <loopers-delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: EDP and Midi sync with software
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 00:45:08 -0800
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I am looking to see if anyone on the list has done work with syncing their
edp with software such as Acid in their computers?Will the edp sync with a
midi clock in progress? I'm also interested to see how you all do it
yourselves-

Cliff

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 21 08:08:37 2000
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From: Anthony Mullen <anthony.mullen@kscl.com>
To: Loopers-Delight-d@annihilist.com,
        "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'"
	 <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Sample accurate sync on a laptop
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Anyone know if this is possible with laptop soundcards - i.e. wordclock?

Thanks
Anthony



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From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 21 09:59:35 2000
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Subject: RE: EDP and Midi sync with software
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 08:55:26 -0600
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> I am looking to see if anyone on the list has done work with syncing their
> edp with software such as Acid in their computers?Will the edp sync with a
> midi clock in progress? I'm also interested to see how you all do it
> yourselves-

I haven't synched it with any PC apps (yet).  But I synch it to a midi
clock all the time, live.  We use a groovebox for rhythm, take the midi
clock out into one EDP (the other guy's) and then run it into my
EDP.  Now all of our loops are synched to the groovebox and each
other (but not necessarily the same length).  If you set the
proper settings on the EDP, it is really easy to see that you
are synched...

     -Mike McGary

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 21 10:18:24 2000
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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:01:59 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Tim Nelson <tcn62@ici.net>
Subject: looping electronic percussion
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I've asked this before, but since the listmember subscribershipness is in
constant flux, maybe someone has an idea...

I'm playing with a percussionist who's developed a severe case of
loop-envy. We generally play as a duo and he has to sit there on his
hydraulic-pneumatic drum throne stuck in one layer of real time while I get
to have all the looping fun.

What he'd like to do is to put triggers on his acoustic kit to control a
drum module (probably an Alesis D4) which he'd then run to an as-yet
unspecified looper. Since money IS an object, he's looking at either a
Headrush or a DL4, which leads to the crux of the biscuit:

Do any of you have any ideas for a way to modify the switches on either of
these units so they could be stick-controlled? As a kit drummer, his feet
are too busy to deal with a stompbox. I suppose he could mount the looper
between his floor toms and hit the switches with the heel of his right
hand, but it would be particularly cool to have a couple of pads in the kit
that would serve as switches to start and stop the loop when hit with a
drumstick.

We've got an old Yamaha DD-5 sitting there; the sounds are horrible, but
it's got 4 pads and a MIDI out. Since neither the Headrush nor the DL4 are
MIDI, can anyone suggest an affordable hardware interface solution that
would allow the DD-5 pads to replace the switches? Or would it make more
sense to rig up some sort of mechanical stick-activated switches?

Ideas?

Tim 

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 21 11:15:25 2000
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From: "Alan Barnard" <alan@kiene.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: looping electronic percussion
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 07:44:17 -0800
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Hi,

My suggestion would be to set the loop pedal next to his hi-hat pedal. If he
has a remote hi hat, he might run it in the closed position to free up his
left foot for "stomping" - shouldn't be a problem.

I have a DL4 and love it. It's pretty basic, but is built like a tank and is
very user friendly. As a percussionist my needs are not nearly as complex as
a guitarist's might be...

Hope this helps.

Best regards,   Alan.
________________________________
Alan Barnard
Digital Drummer/Percussionist
e-drums@pacbell.net
http://www.kiene.com/epercussion

> Do any of you have any ideas for a way to modify the switches on either of
> these units so they could be stick-controlled? As a kit drummer, his feet
> are too busy to deal with a stompbox.

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 21 12:16:28 2000
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From: "Javier Miranda V." <gnominus@earthling.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Korg D8; Extra HDD
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:03:00 -0800
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OK.  I'll go find this stuff.  Thank you very much, dude.

Javier

  | -----Original Message-----
  | From: Hawkeye255@aol.com [mailto:Hawkeye255@aol.com]
  | Sent: Sunday 20 February 2000 10:45 PM
  | To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
  | Subject: Re: Korg D8; Extra HDD
  |
  |
  | << Interesting.  I called Korg and was told the internal drive was
  | "proprietary" and that fitting a new internal drive was impossible.>>
  |
  |     Funny, that's exactly what Roland said when their VS-880
  | came out with a
  | 540 meg hard drive.  But I upgraded mine to 4.3 gig anyway (and several
  | others on the VS-880 list).  Check it out: I believe those
  | discussions and my
  | instructions are kept in some little FAQ archive now, since I
  | regularly get
  | email from people still wanting to do that upgrade themselves.  My "15
  | minutes of fame".  ;-)  A little more complicated job than the
  | Korg D-8,
  | though.  You have an internal SCSI bus and an EIDE bus
  | available to you in
  | the Rolands and a drive bay that will hold a 3.5" drive.  The
  | problem is, the
  | power supply won't tolerate any drive that draws more than 10
  | amps (more or
  | less) on startup.  So the 2.5" Toshiba drives I bought from
  | Siliconel were
  | the perfect solution.  And that doesn't always happen. BTW,
  | Javier: the D-8
  | upgrade is a piece a cake.  If it takes you ten minutes, you're
  | movin' awful
  | slow.  ;-)
  |     hawkeye
  |
  |

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From: "Mike Biffle" <mbiffle@svg.com>
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Subject: My link to the Loop Exchange had an error in it! This is the
	correct link below. Sorry for the error
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My link to the Loop Exchange had an error in it! This is the correct link below. Sorry for the error... -Miko

http://www.music.columbia.edu/~cecenter/mhl21/ct/ct.html 

or just:

http://www.loopxchange.com 

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 21 14:26:02 2000
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Kim,Loopers

I'm playing around vith veryvery small delay times (eg granular )
and was wondering what is the  smallest delay time we can get when
trigering the record function from midi (record mode : sus)

it is probably something related to sampling rate mm?


kim's post that triggered my experiments...

http://www.annihilist.com/loop/LDarchive/200002/msg00016.html


greetings

Claude

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From: "Dennis W. Leas" <dennis@mdbs.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: EDP delay time question
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>I'm playing around vith veryvery small delay times (eg granular )
>and was wondering what is the  smallest delay time we can get when
>trigering the record function from midi (record mode : sus)

Interesting question.  My guess is that the minimum time is determined by the
MIDI transmission rate.  I.e., how fast can you send a record start/stop to the
EDP via MIDI.  If so, I think it is about 3.84 millisecs.  My calculations
follow:

MIDI transmit rate = 31.25 Kb/sec = 31250 bits/sec

Note On message = 3 bytes (1 status + 2 data bytes)
Note Off message= 3 bytes
EDP record start/stop = Note On + Note Off + Note On + Note Off = 12 bytes

MIDI transmits each byte as 10 bits.
therefore, EDP record start/stop = 120 bits.

EDP record start/stop Transmit time = ( 120 bits / (31250 bits/sec)) = 3.84
milliseconds.

Of course, Kim might tell us that the EDP stops recording as soon as it sees the
second Note On message, in which case the minimum would be:

( 90 bits / (31250 bits/sec)) = 2.88 milliseconds.

I'm assuming the EDP can recognize and act upon the Note On message instantly.

But I was never good at arithmetic...

Dennis Leas
-----------------------------
dennis@mdbs.com


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Denis

I think its smaller edp can (with rec mode :sus) rec and out on 1 note
on/off and understands running status wich makes 5 midi bytes
wich if I follow you makes 50bits / (31250 bits/sec)=1.6 ms

something aproaching d#4

hard to tell but the notes seemed higher than that ...
but granular synth. is so "painful" after a while so my ears are perhaps
wrong

I'm very impressed by the strongness of the plex software that can hold
such fast burst of evenements without a glitch ....

Claude





"Dennis W. Leas" wrote:

> 
> Interesting question.  My guess is that the minimum time is determined by the
> MIDI transmission rate.  I.e., how fast can you send a record start/stop to the
> EDP via MIDI.  If so, I think it is about 3.84 millisecs.  My calculations
> follow:
> 
> MIDI transmit rate = 31.25 Kb/sec = 31250 bits/sec
> 
> Note On message = 3 bytes (1 status + 2 data bytes)
> Note Off message= 3 bytes
> EDP record start/stop = Note On + Note Off + Note On + Note Off = 12 bytes
> 
> MIDI transmits each byte as 10 bits.
> therefore, EDP record start/stop = 120 bits.
> 
> EDP record start/stop Transmit time = ( 120 bits / (31250 bits/sec)) = 3.84
> milliseconds.
> 
> Of course, Kim might tell us that the EDP stops recording as soon as it sees the
> second Note On message, in which case the minimum would be:
> 
> ( 90 bits / (31250 bits/sec)) = 2.88 milliseconds.
> 
> I'm assuming the EDP can recognize and act upon the Note On message instantly.
> 
> But I was never good at arithmetic...
> 
> Dennis Leas
> -----------------------------
> dennis@mdbs.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 21 16:03:44 2000
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From: "Taaffe, Denis G" <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Musical gear for sale
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:57:30 -0500
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Hello,

	if anyone is interested, I have the following for sale. I'll
probably post on ebay or digibid, but thought I'd post to  the list first:

Sony A6 DAT recorder, about 2 years old,,spdif in/outs, front
loading,etc........$make offer

Carver autoreverse cassette deck...$no one really wants a tape deck
anymore,I'll probably keep it, but just in case

Seagull A6 cedar acoustic w/ case, less than 6 month's old,nice,.......$make
offer

Jackson Stealthex electric with Seymour Duncan JB humbucker,3 hb pickups,
blue,etc.....$make offer

Boston Acoustic a40 speakers...$make offer

a night out on the town with my grandma.....$19.99 or highest bidder takes
all


Most of this stuff, you can see at http://www.dtguitar.com under photos,let
me know if interested and your offer.

Thanks
Denis

Denis Taaffe
denis_aliengtr@geocities.com
http://www.dtguitar.com




















-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Biffle [mailto:mbiffle@svg.com]
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 12:35 PM
To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com; mattdavignon@hotmail.com;
CT-Collective@onelist.com
Subject: Re: [CT-Collective] going to LD


Greetings fellow loopers...

About a year ago a number of us here at Loopers Delight initiated a "Chain
Tape" project and physically mailed a cassette around the world, adding loop
recordings as it traveled. That became a 4 cd compilation called Chain Tape
1. We've gone on to two other projects: a 75 second "miniatures" project
with 24 involved; and a "Found Sound" project which was just completed. It
can be downloaded at Morgan Hamilton Lang's "Loop Exchange" site...

http://music.columbia.edu/~cecenter/mhl21/ct/ct.html 

We've gone one to create a mailing list 30+ people strong (so far) for the
purpose of recording compilation - collaboration CD's for low cost. These
CD's are often themed, and are fun and useful in the exchange of musical
ideas, talents, and inspiration. If you would like to find out about,
participate in, or help in arranging such collaborations. We'd love to have
you here! For those of you worried about too much email... The main
CT-Collective list is not nearly as busy as Loopers Delight... 

At this point we're open to various forms of media: cassette, dat, audio
data files, and I believe we'll be mini-disc capable soon as well.
Mastering, duping and artwork is usually handled with volunteers within the
project group. At the end of the project we ante up any mailing, duping
costs and then receive our cd's. (Usually well below the $20 mark...) We've
also begun mailing all our submissions directly to the mastering volunteer
in parallel in order to speed turnaround time on projects.

Here's all the pertinent info for anyone interested in becoming part of any
future recording projects as well as proposing your own...

  Post message: CT-Collective@onelist.com 
  Subscribe:    CT-Collective-subscribe@onelist.com 
  Unsubscribe:  CT-Collective-unsubscribe@onelist.com 
  List owner:   CT-Collective-owner@onelist.com 

Shortcut URL to this page:
  http://www.onelist.com/community/CT-Collective 

Best regards,
-Miko Biffle

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 21 16:49:42 2000
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From: "Larry Tremblay" <ltct@concentric.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
References: <200002212052.PAA22427@fb02.eng00.mindspring.net>
Subject: Re: FS: 2 DigiTech Rackmount RDS Delays
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:47:27 -0500
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I'll consider trades as well, but prefer cash.

- Larry

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "c.white" <magicicada@mindspring.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2000 2:52 AM
Subject: Re: FS: 2 DigiTech Rackmount RDS Delays


> are  you doing trades as well?
> regards
> c.
> ----------
> >From: "Larry Tremblay" <ltct@concentric.net>
> >To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
> >Subject: FS: 2 DigiTech Rackmount RDS Delays
> >Date: Mon, Feb 21, 2000, 4:27 PM
> >
> 
> >I have to make some room around here, so I'm selling 
> >a few things. I have references galore.
> >
> >* Digitech RDS 3600 Digital Delay - $150 + shipping
> >This is a somewhat rare piece. It's a lot
> >like the RDS 7.6, except that the max delay 
> >time is switchable between three modes: 
> >1.9, 3.6, and 7.2 sec's. 
> >
> >The usual inputs (TRIGGER/REPEAT, VCO IN, etc), and
> >outputs(Dry, Mix, PHASE).
> >
> >Excellent looper delay in good shape.
> >
> >* Digitech RDS 3.6 Digital Delay - $135 + shipping
> >Same as above, except the max delay time is 3.6 sec's
> >In excellent condition too.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >- Larry Tremblay
> >
> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 21 17:15:03 2000
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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 17:08:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Unit Circle Media <unitcirc@unitcircle.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: MM4 reviews?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.04.10002211707340.13288-100000@keys.com>
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while I know it's not strictly looping, I was wondering  if anyone has
tried the Line 6 MM4 an what they think about it...

	thanks,
		Kevin


Kevin Goldsmith				kevin@unitcircle.com
Unit Circle Media			http://www.unitcircle.com/

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From: "matt davignon" <mattdavignon@hotmail.com>
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>From: "Mike Biffle" <mbiffle@svg.com>

>Greetings fellow loopers...
>We've gone on to two other projects: a 75 second "miniatures" project with 
>24 involved; and a "Found Sound" project which was just completed. It can 
>be downloaded at Morgan Hamilton Lang's "Loop Exchange" site...
>
>http://music.columbia.edu/~cecenter/mhl21/ct/ct.html

don't foget the www! so that's

http://www.music.columbia.edu/~cecenter/mhl21/ct/ct.html

or you can just use the shortcut:

www.loopxchange.com

>At the end of the project we ante up any mailing, duping costs and >then 
>receive our cd's. (Usually well below the $20 mark...)

Actually, the cost for participants on the "Found Sound" CD project was just 
$1.62 per CD plus postage! Since we split up the fees and have volunteers do 
the burning, artwork, and labels, the resulting compilation CD that you get 
costs way less than most compilation CD's that you can buy. (Don't forget 
the added bonus that you will be in contact with all the musicians on the CD 
from working with them!)

Matt Davignon

p.s. here's the signup information again:

>   Post message: CT-Collective@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    CT-Collective-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  CT-Collective-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   CT-Collective-owner@onelist.com
>
>Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/CT-Collective

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 21 17:42:46 2000
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Message-ID: <000a01bf7cbc$8ee60b80$f07279a5@cliff>
From: "Clifford@BienAppraisers" <bienappraisers@mindspring.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Musical gear for sale
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 14:39:16 -0800
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Hi- I need your address- I will be sending payment for the last item on your
list- please have it washed and ready to sweat-

Cliff

-----Original Message-----
From: Taaffe, Denis G <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
To: 'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com' <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Date: Monday, February 21, 2000 1:20 PM
Subject: Musical gear for sale


>Hello,
>
> if anyone is interested, I have the following for sale. I'll
>probably post on ebay or digibid, but thought I'd post to  the list first:
>
>Sony A6 DAT recorder, about 2 years old,,spdif in/outs, front
>loading,etc........$make offer
>
>Carver autoreverse cassette deck...$no one really wants a tape deck
>anymore,I'll probably keep it, but just in case
>
>Seagull A6 cedar acoustic w/ case, less than 6 month's
old,nice,.......$make
>offer
>
>Jackson Stealthex electric with Seymour Duncan JB humbucker,3 hb pickups,
>blue,etc.....$make offer
>
>Boston Acoustic a40 speakers...$make offer
>
>a night out on the town with my grandma.....$19.99 or highest bidder takes
>all
>
>
>Most of this stuff, you can see at http://www.dtguitar.com under photos,let
>me know if interested and your offer.
>
>Thanks
>Denis
>
>Denis Taaffe
>denis_aliengtr@geocities.com
>http://www.dtguitar.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mike Biffle [mailto:mbiffle@svg.com]
>Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 12:35 PM
>To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com; mattdavignon@hotmail.com;
>CT-Collective@onelist.com
>Subject: Re: [CT-Collective] going to LD
>
>
>Greetings fellow loopers...
>
>About a year ago a number of us here at Loopers Delight initiated a "Chain
>Tape" project and physically mailed a cassette around the world, adding
loop
>recordings as it traveled. That became a 4 cd compilation called Chain Tape
>1. We've gone on to two other projects: a 75 second "miniatures" project
>with 24 involved; and a "Found Sound" project which was just completed. It
>can be downloaded at Morgan Hamilton Lang's "Loop Exchange" site...
>
>http://music.columbia.edu/~cecenter/mhl21/ct/ct.html
>
>We've gone one to create a mailing list 30+ people strong (so far) for the
>purpose of recording compilation - collaboration CD's for low cost. These
>CD's are often themed, and are fun and useful in the exchange of musical
>ideas, talents, and inspiration. If you would like to find out about,
>participate in, or help in arranging such collaborations. We'd love to have
>you here! For those of you worried about too much email... The main
>CT-Collective list is not nearly as busy as Loopers Delight...
>
>At this point we're open to various forms of media: cassette, dat, audio
>data files, and I believe we'll be mini-disc capable soon as well.
>Mastering, duping and artwork is usually handled with volunteers within the
>project group. At the end of the project we ante up any mailing, duping
>costs and then receive our cd's. (Usually well below the $20 mark...) We've
>also begun mailing all our submissions directly to the mastering volunteer
>in parallel in order to speed turnaround time on projects.
>
>Here's all the pertinent info for anyone interested in becoming part of any
>future recording projects as well as proposing your own...
>
>  Post message: CT-Collective@onelist.com
>  Subscribe:    CT-Collective-subscribe@onelist.com
>  Unsubscribe:  CT-Collective-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>  List owner:   CT-Collective-owner@onelist.com
>
>Shortcut URL to this page:
>  http://www.onelist.com/community/CT-Collective
>
>Best regards,
>-Miko Biffle
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 21 19:55:37 2000
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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:45:02 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel)
Subject: Re:  NELS CLINE & GREGG BENDIAN - INTERSTELLAR SPACE
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>Just have to say I caught this show, practically by accident. We were gigging
>a block and a half away in downtown L.A. and afterward we walked by The Smell
>and heard all this racket.

I just wanted to add that *IT REALLY SUCKS* that Cline and Bendian are
playing 3 nights withing driving distance of me (Eugene, Portland and
Seattle) and I can't make any of the shows because I have gigs. I'll
actually be playing just a few blocks away from their PDX show, but it
looks logistically impossible, unless they play really late. The Rob
Blakeslee 4-tet, awesome players and good friends of mine, are openning the
Portland show, don't miss this if you are at all capable...

________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org  : www.peak.org/~improv/

"...there will come a day when you won't have to use
gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in
your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper
type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em
together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em
together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire."
                                            -Sun Ra
________________________________________________________


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 21 20:18:19 2000
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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 01:10:20 +0000
From: "Graham " <pentlandcrown@u.genie.co.uk>
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--webexpress-2.1.3-07a858
Content-Type: text/plain

Hey fellow loopers,
I've just bought an EDP and need to upgrade it to version 5 software. 
Any idea how and where I can do this?
Also I need some cheap memory to upgrade the memory any ideas on cheap 
places in West Hollywood?
I'm only in LA for the next week so pointers greatly appreciated.
Cheers.....
Graham 

; name=""
Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64

LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLTYxMDI2Mzc5NTMxOTY5OQ==

--webexpress-2.1.3-07a858--

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 21 23:31:09 2000
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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 20:23:27 -0800
From: Neil Goldstein <ngold@home.com>
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Some mostly positive user comments at 

http://www.harmony-central.com/Effects/Data/Line_6/MM_4_Modulation_Modeler-01.html

I just picked up one today $229 at Guitar Center, but haven't had a
chance to play much with it yet. At the store, it sounded great, amidst
the cacaphony and playing a new guitar which went out of tune often. The
Leslie and Univibe ems alone were enough to get me to reach for the
credit card. Along with the DL-4 this will be great, esp for a guy who
hasn't had a floor pedal since the 80's. Hope the expression pedal works
smoother on this than the DL-4 :-(

NG

Unit Circle Media wrote:
> 
> while I know it's not strictly looping, I was wondering  if anyone has
> tried the Line 6 MM4 an what they think about it...
> 
>         thanks,
>                 Kevin
> 
> Kevin Goldsmith                         kevin@unitcircle.com
> Unit Circle Media                       http://www.unitcircle.com/

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 21 23:30:50 2000
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From: "Pete Mundt" <manx72@voyager.net>
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Subject: OT:bias frequency
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 23:21:51 -0800
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O.K. Maybe a very stupid question, possibly a very stupid question

anyway,    anybody know the approximate frequency at which tape bias
occurs???

I'm trying to master stereo mixes (which were recorded on 8-track cassette)
on my computer, and would love to be able to take out some bias.

I have cakewalk 8 @ my disposal. Any suggestions are very much appreciated.

Feel free to e-mail me privately   manx72@voyager.net


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 22 01:17:37 2000
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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:11:30 -0800
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: EDP upgrades in lA???
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At 5:10 PM -0800 2/21/00, Graham  wrote:
>Hey fellow loopers,
>I've just bought an EDP and need to upgrade it to version 5 software.
>Any idea how and where I can do this?

sure, you can buy the upgrade direct from Aurisis Research. (That's
Matthias and me, the software developers...)  It costs $45, easy to
install. Just send a mail to upgrade@aurisis.com and we'll send you all the
details.

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | 


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Hey I concur-it is easy-I got my upgrade a little while ago, and thanx to 
Aurisis it does everything purported-again Thanx guys. GOIN' LOOPY...STANNER

----------
>From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
>To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>Subject: Re: EDP upgrades in lA???
>Date: Mon, Feb 21, 2000, 10:11 PM
>

> At 5:10 PM -0800 2/21/00, Graham  wrote:
>>Hey fellow loopers,
>>I've just bought an EDP and need to upgrade it to version 5 software.
>>Any idea how and where I can do this?
>
> sure, you can buy the upgrade direct from Aurisis Research. (That's
> Matthias and me, the software developers...)  It costs $45, easy to
> install. Just send a mail to upgrade@aurisis.com and we'll send you all the
> details.
>
> kim
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
> kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
> http://www.annihilist.com/  |
>
>
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 22 03:42:50 2000
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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:41:38 +0000
From: Olivier Malhomme <malhomme@vete.ucl.ac.be>
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Well, sorry to disturb you people again with that. Unfortunately my
search did no good. The only peole I found who had some was musician's
friend, and they refuse to sell abroad (?!?!).
Pretty stuck I am.
So if anyone sees one in alittle shop near at a reasonnable price (like
in the $200-400 area as we said), please e-mail me privately, and sorry
to evryone for this again;


Olivier Malhomme

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 22 09:32:01 2000
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Message-ID: <7BAC931E644ED211A90C00805F65CB640282DF8D@georgia.exchange.indiana.edu>
From: "Taaffe, Denis G" <dtaaffe@indiana.edu>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Musical gear for sale
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:20:53 -0500
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Smart Man, 

	I would have made the same choice. This highly sought after package
includes a free excursion via walker to the sites around Bloomington,IN
including the always popular goodwill where you can purchased used depends
undergarments in privacy with your date. A free all inclusive luxury bed pan
will also be included during the free showing of the best of "lawrence welk
show" reruns while you cuddle with your dreamdate. 

congratulations!!!!
 
Denis

Denis Taaffe
denis_aliengtr@geocities.com
http://www.dtguitar.com
  

-
Subject: Re: Musical gear for sale


Hi- I need your address- I will be sending payment for the last item on your
list- please have it washed and ready to sweat-

Cliff

-
>Boston Acoustic a40 speakers...$make offer
>
>a night out on the town with my grandma.....$19.99 or highest bidder takes
>all
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 22 10:28:04 2000
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From: "Weideman, Gary L (Gary)" <weideman@lucent.com>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Roland GR-30 and Godin Multiac Steel String w/SA for sale
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:19:28 -0600
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Hi everyone,

If anyone is interested I have a Roland GR-30 with 15 foot cable and manual
in excellent condition along
with a beautiful sunburst Godin Multiac Acoustic Steel string guitar (w/hard
shell case) that has Synth Access via the RMC pickup
system for sale.

Together they make a great Guitar/Synth combination with excellent tracking
and acoustic sound !
I haven't been using it much lately thus I need to sell them. I will sell
them together for $1000 (buyer pays shipping)
or separately ($400 for the GR-30, $700 for the Godin Multiac).

Gary Weideman
630-979-4957

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 22 10:36:54 2000
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just called Musician's Friend and they still have a couple at full price
(~$1000) apparently

Olivier Malhomme wrote:
> 
> Well, sorry to disturb you people again with that. Unfortunately my
> search did no good. The only peole I found who had some was musician's
> friend, and they refuse to sell abroad (?!?!).
> Pretty stuck I am.
> So if anyone sees one in alittle shop near at a reasonnable price (like
> in the $200-400 area as we said), please e-mail me privately, and sorry
> to evryone for this again;
> 
> Olivier Malhomme

-- 
---------------------------------------------------
Ph: (734) 764 3377 
Email: darcyc@engin.umich.edu
URL: http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~darcyc/
---------------------------------------------------
'If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate'
..... Steven Wright

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 22 12:42:41 2000
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>>From: "Mike Biffle" <mbiffle@svg.com> >>Greetings fellow loopers...
We've gone on to two other projects: a 75 second "miniatures" project
with 24 involved; and a "Found Sound" project which was just
completed. It can be downloaded at Morgan Hamilton Lang's "Loop
Exchange" site...

Matt chimes in...
>don't foget the www! so that's 
> http://www.music.columbia.edu/~cecenter/mhl21/ct/ct.html 
> or you can just use the shortcut:
> www.loopxchange.com 

Thanks Matt...

>>At the end of the project we ante up any mailing, duping costs and
then  receive our cd's. (Usually well below the $20 mark...)

> Actually, the cost for participants on the "Found Sound" CD project
was just $1.62 per CD plus postage! Since we split up the fees and
have volunteers do the burning, artwork, and labels, the resulting
compilation CD that you get costs way less than most compilation CD's
that you can buy. (Don't forget the added bonus that you will be in
contact with all the musicians on the CD from working with them!)

That's really good news Matt? All that he says above is TRUE! TRUE!
TRUE! I've been soooo happy being a part of these projects... I'm
hoping that down the road I'll get the chance to do a little live
terrorizing with many of the contributors!

-Miko

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 22 12:34:45 2000
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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:05:23 -0500
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>Ideas?

Pool your resources and buy an EDP.  I think you'll get better results.  Jointly
building loops on a shared EDP works quite well.  And adding custom switches is
easy.  Also, the DD-5 becomes instantly useable for triggering the EDP.

Best of luck!

Dennis Leas
-----------------------------
dennis@mdbs.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 22 12:57:52 2000
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From: "Larry Tremblay" <ltct@concentric.net>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: FS: 2 DigiTech Rackmount RDS Delays
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:27:26 -0500
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I have to make some room around here, so I'm selling 
a few things. I have references galore.

* Digitech RDS 3600 Digital Delay - $150 + shipping
This is a somewhat rare piece. It's a lot
like the RDS 7.6, except that the max delay 
time is switchable between three modes: 
1.9, 3.6, and 7.2 sec's. 

The usual inputs (TRIGGER/REPEAT, VCO IN, etc), and
outputs(Dry, Mix, PHASE).

Excellent looper delay in good shape.

* Digitech RDS 3.6 Digital Delay - $135 + shipping
Same as above, except the max delay time is 3.6 sec's
In excellent condition too.

Thanks,
- Larry Tremblay

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are  you doing trades as well?
regards
c.
----------
>From: "Larry Tremblay" <ltct@concentric.net>
>To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>Subject: FS: 2 DigiTech Rackmount RDS Delays
>Date: Mon, Feb 21, 2000, 4:27 PM
>

>I have to make some room around here, so I'm selling 
>a few things. I have references galore.
>
>* Digitech RDS 3600 Digital Delay - $150 + shipping
>This is a somewhat rare piece. It's a lot
>like the RDS 7.6, except that the max delay 
>time is switchable between three modes: 
>1.9, 3.6, and 7.2 sec's. 
>
>The usual inputs (TRIGGER/REPEAT, VCO IN, etc), and
>outputs(Dry, Mix, PHASE).
>
>Excellent looper delay in good shape.
>
>* Digitech RDS 3.6 Digital Delay - $135 + shipping
>Same as above, except the max delay time is 3.6 sec's
>In excellent condition too.
>
>Thanks,
>- Larry Tremblay
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 22 13:10:26 2000
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At or around 03:27 PM 2/21/00 -0500, Larry Tremblay wrote:

>* Digitech RDS 3.6 Digital Delay - $135 + shipping
>Same as above, except the max delay time is 3.6 sec's
>In excellent condition too.

Just to let you know, I purchased my last two RDS 3.6's (in the last year)
at $40 and $75, respectively.  Going rate is well under $100 these days.

==
the Reverend Rob      ICQ: 1280871          Yahoo: theReverendRob
http://www.realm-of-shade.com .`. .`. .`. .`. http://www.qblh.com
=================================================================
"I prefer not to kill people, but I'd like to destroy as much
 property as possible." - Grace Slick, from the Airplane FBI file
=================================================================
http://www.realm-of-shade.com/music : feedback and echo MP3s

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 22 13:20:09 2000
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From: Echopark99@aol.com
Message-ID: <d6.1537f79.25e309d9@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:36:25 EST
Subject: Re:  NELS CLINE & GREGG BENDIAN - INTERSTELLAR SPACE
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Just have to say I caught this show, practically by accident. We were gigging 
a block and a half away in downtown L.A. and afterward we walked by The Smell 
and heard all this racket. Often willing to support that way-out, literal 
hole in the wall venue, we popped $5 each and entered. After being thoroughly 
tortured for 25 minutes by a guy with four speakers with a contact mic on 
each and a mixer doing what looked like might have been a 
feedback/regenerative tones performance but sounded like continuous 2.5KHz 
feedback squeal...

...Nels and Gregg followed with a very exciting show - dynamic in volume and 
texture, contrasting sheer thunder and lightning with occasional moments of 
beautiful, sensitive "jazz" playing. And Nels really plays that EH 16 like a 
musical instrument in itself (yes, looping). Thrill to moments like when Nels 
gets a little wild modulating and pitching and wha-ing, then somehow knocks 
out his pedalboard, exclaiming "I've lost power, Captain!" to Gregg, then 
taking an heroic turn to whatever's still running in the 16 and re-shaping it 
to support life for the moment, then switching to manual override - plugging 
the guitar straight into the amp (!) and busting out the Coltrane phrase with 
a mellow, old skool sensibility. Great fun.

The tour schedule is here:
>http://people.we.mediaone.net/dbeihoff/NCAS/index.html

eric p
echo park




In a message dated 2/9/0 3:25:46 PM, speck45@hotmail.com writes:

>Sorry for the kind of Off Topic post, but this is a show not to be missed if 
>you are in the Seattle area, and maybe an excuse to visit.
>
>Subject:   NELS CLINE & GREGG BENDIAN - INTERSTELLAR SPACE: THE MUSIC
>OF JOHN COLTRANE  *[ SEATTLE SHOW ADDED! ]*

The tour schedule is here:

>http://people.we.mediaone.net/dbeihoff/NCAS/index.html

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 22 13:29:23 2000
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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:35:17 -0800
From: "Mike Biffle" <mbiffle@svg.com>
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        CT-Collective@onelist.com
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Greetings fellow loopers...

About a year ago a number of us here at Loopers Delight initiated a "Chain Tape" project and physically mailed a cassette around the world, adding loop recordings as it traveled. That became a 4 cd compilation called Chain Tape 1. We've gone on to two other projects: a 75 second "miniatures" project with 24 involved; and a "Found Sound" project which was just completed. It can be downloaded at Morgan Hamilton Lang's "Loop Exchange" site...

http://music.columbia.edu/~cecenter/mhl21/ct/ct.html 

We've gone one to create a mailing list 30+ people strong (so far) for the purpose of recording compilation - collaboration CD's for low cost. These CD's are often themed, and are fun and useful in the exchange of musical ideas, talents, and inspiration. If you would like to find out about, participate in, or help in arranging such collaborations. We'd love to have you here! For those of you worried about too much email... The main CT-Collective list is not nearly as busy as Loopers Delight... 

At this point we're open to various forms of media: cassette, dat, audio data files, and I believe we'll be mini-disc capable soon as well. Mastering, duping and artwork is usually handled with volunteers within the project group. At the end of the project we ante up any mailing, duping costs and then receive our cd's. (Usually well below the $20 mark...) We've also begun mailing all our submissions directly to the mastering volunteer in parallel in order to speed turnaround time on projects.

Here's all the pertinent info for anyone interested in becoming part of any future recording projects as well as proposing your own...

  Post message: CT-Collective@onelist.com 
  Subscribe:    CT-Collective-subscribe@onelist.com 
  Unsubscribe:  CT-Collective-unsubscribe@onelist.com 
  List owner:   CT-Collective-owner@onelist.com 

Shortcut URL to this page:
  http://www.onelist.com/community/CT-Collective 

Best regards,
-Miko Biffle

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 22 13:53:11 2000
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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 10:25:10 -0800
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From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel)
Subject: Upcoming NW Minus shows
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Hi, pardon the self-promotional spam,

Minus (Mark France:gtr/vocals/noise, Dave Trenkel:basses/electronics, Henry
Franzoni:drums) is doing a short NW tour this week:

We'll be in Seattle on Thursday, Feb 24th, at the Rainbow Room. We'll be
playing with Elaine Difalco and Fabric, the new band from the Hughscore and
Caveman Shoestore keyboardist/vocalist, which also features Fred Chalenor
(Hughscore, Zony Mash, Tone Dogs, etc) on bass.

Friday, Feb. 25th, we'll be in Portland at the Tugboat Brewpub, with the
Aiko Shimada Band. This show is free, though we will gladly accept
donations, and the Tugboat is an intimate, all-ages and dog-friendly
establishment.

Saturday, Feb. 26th, we'll be at Squirrels Tavern, Corvallis, OR, once
again with the Aiko Shimada Band. For this show, we'll be joined by JD
Monroe on turntables.

Also, take a look at our newly refurbished web presence:

http://listen.to/minusmusic

and

www.mp3.com/-minus-

The MP3.com site features an advance tune from our as-yet unreleased 2nd CD.

________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org  : www.peak.org/~improv/

"...there will come a day when you won't have to use
gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in
your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper
type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em
together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em
together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire."
                                            -Sun Ra
________________________________________________________


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 22 14:47:39 2000
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From: magicicada@mindspring.com
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 14:37:54 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Electronics Fest Summer 2000 Atlanta Georgia
Sender: magicicada@mindspring.com
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Hello All,
	
	Euphonnics Productions and myself are looking for people to participate in an upcoming electronics festival here in Atlanta, Georgia.This festival will highlight electronic music outside the norms...so you drone types and homemade electronic wizards please apply.
	
open to all  north and south american electro kids who can get themselves here to atlanta, as we are poor... Europeans and others can send stuff in but we cannot afford to fly you over...:D


		send all of your shimmering demos to:

			c.white
			331 lakeshore drive
			stockbridge georgia
				30280


>


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 22 15:00:17 2000
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From: "Kiene's Fly Shop" <alan@kiene.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Electronics Fest Summer 2000 Atlanta Georgia
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 11:53:52 -0800
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Definitely contact David Haney at Zendrum in Atlanta. Here's his web
address: www.zendrum.com

Alan.

_____________________________
Alan Barnard
Digital Drummer/Percussionist
e-drums@pacbell.net
http://www.kiene.com/epercussion


> -----Original Message-----
> From: magicicada@mindspring.com [mailto:magicicada@mindspring.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2000 11:38 AM
> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Subject: Electronics Fest Summer 2000 Atlanta Georgia
>
>
> Hello All,
>
> 	Euphonnics Productions and myself are looking for people to
> participate in an upcoming electronics festival here in Atlanta,
> Georgia.This festival will highlight electronic music outside the
> norms...so you drone types and homemade electronic wizards please apply.
>
> open to all  north and south american electro kids who can get
> themselves here to atlanta, as we are poor... Europeans and
> others can send stuff in but we cannot afford to fly you over...:D
>
>
> 		send all of your shimmering demos to:
>
> 			c.white
> 			331 lakeshore drive
> 			stockbridge georgia
> 				30280
>
>
> >
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 22 17:14:05 2000
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olivier, did you try music store in cologne, germany?

<http://www.musicstorekoeln.de>

they had some that they were blowing out in their last catalog.

prices: 
1190,- DM : keyboard version 
1090,- DM : rack version

hope this helps ...

l8ter,
rob

Olivier Malhomme schrieb:
> 
> 
> Well, sorry to disturb you people again with that. Unfortunately my
> search did no good. The only peole I found who had some was musician's
> friend, and they refuse to sell abroad (?!?!).
> Pretty stuck I am.
> So if anyone sees one in alittle shop near at a reasonnable price (like
> in the $200-400 area as we said), please e-mail me privately, and sorry
> to evryone for this again;
> 
> Olivier Malhomme


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 22 20:51:08 2000
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Hello , hello
This has probably been covered before , ( please excuse me if it has! ) but
what exactly does the version 5 software do? I've had an EDP for the last 11/2
- 2 years and I'm not sure if it is upgraded. Is there some way that I can
tell? Thanks for any info,  Mike

Kim Flint wrote:

> At 5:10 PM -0800 2/21/00, Graham  wrote:
> >Hey fellow loopers,
> >I've just bought an EDP and need to upgrade it to version 5 software.
> >Any idea how and where I can do this?
>
> sure, you can buy the upgrade direct from Aurisis Research. (That's
> Matthias and me, the software developers...)  It costs $45, easy to
> install. Just send a mail to upgrade@aurisis.com and we'll send you all the
> details.
>
> kim
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
> kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
> http://www.annihilist.com/  |

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 22 21:13:28 2000
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From: "Richard Allen" <richarda@famoustech.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: looping electronic percussion
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 12:56:54 +1100
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Seems like you'd be much better off with a sequencer or drum machine that
can run in loop record mode.  eg: Dr550, 660, Alesis SR-16 etc.

That is if your drummer only wants to loop drum module sounds rather than
audio.

If you're sending MIDI notes already from your drum interface module, and
your drummer is playing along so a MIDI sequence (with time code) you can
sync the sequencer or drum machine to that.

He may even want to dump the trigger idea altogether (they can be a but
finicky) and just play on the velocity sensitive pads of a suitable drum
machine in loop record mode, and then switch to the sticks for the live
feel.

Happy spirals,

Richard Allen

--------------------------------------------
richarda@famoustech.com
Applications Engineer
www.famoustech.com

Famous Technologies
55 Claremont St
Sth Yarra, 3141
Australia

(613) 9826 9433 xt 202
(613) 9826 9115 Fax
--------------------------------------------


-----Original Message-----
From: Christine Bard [mailto:lerocher@pipeline.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 10:48 AM
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: looping electronic percussion



>Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:01:59 -0500
>From: Tim Nelson <tcn62@ici.net>
>To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>Subject: looping electronic percussion
>Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20000221100159.007a9330@pop.ici.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>I've asked this before, but since the listmember subscribershipness is in
>constant flux, maybe someone has an idea...
>
>I'm playing with a percussionist who's developed a severe case of
>loop-envy. We generally play as a duo and he has to sit there on his
>hydraulic-pneumatic drum throne stuck in one layer of real time while I get
>to have all the looping fun.
>
>What he'd like to do is to put triggers on his acoustic kit to control a
>drum module (probably an Alesis D4) which he'd then run to an as-yet
>unspecified looper. Since money IS an object, he's looking at either a
>Headrush or a DL4, which leads to the crux of the biscuit:
>
>Do any of you have any ideas for a way to modify the switches on either of
>these units so they could be stick-controlled? As a kit drummer, his feet
>are too busy to deal with a stompbox. I suppose he could mount the looper
>between his floor toms and hit the switches with the heel of his right
>hand, but it would be particularly cool to have a couple of pads in the kit
>that would serve as switches to start and stop the loop when hit with a
>drumstick.
>
>We've got an old Yamaha DD-5 sitting there; the sounds are horrible, but
>it's got 4 pads and a MIDI out. Since neither the Headrush nor the DL4 are
>MIDI, can anyone suggest an affordable hardware interface solution that
>would allow the DD-5 pads to replace the switches? Or would it make more
>sense to rig up some sort of mechanical stick-activated switches?
>
>Ideas?
>
>Tim




Is a volume pedal next to the hi hat too prosaic?    You can even use two
and pretend you have a mixer.  (get two Dod 4second delays and fake a stereo
signal...)

...anything with a fader words well, also.


Christine Bard




                                 Christine Bard
                                0~>~<>~><~<>~<~0

             I replaced the headlights in my car with strobe lights.
                   Now it looks like I'm the only one moving.
                                -Steven Wright







From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 22 23:05:53 2000
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: David Myers <dmgraph@pulsewidth.com>
Subject: Waldorf 4 Pole
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Just got a passion (and  couple of free bucks) for a Waldorf 4 Pole
filterbox.  If anyone here has one for sale, or hears of one popping up
used, I'd appreciate a holler.  Just can't cough up the $400 for a new one.
TIA....

David Myers


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 22 23:04:08 2000
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Tim Nelson <tcn62@ici.net>
Subject: RE: looping electronic percussion
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At 12:56 PM 2/23/00 +1100, you wrote:
>Seems like you'd be much better off with a sequencer or drum machine that
>can run in loop record mode.  eg: Dr550, 660, Alesis SR-16 etc.

I've got an SR-16, but the interface doesn't appeal to him. We often do
parts where I'm looping the SR-16 and/or percussive synth sounds and he's
playing against it, but he'd really like to be able to run his own device.
Since he's playing the kit and has sticks in hand anyway, putting triggers
on his existing drums would be the smoothest evolution of what we're doing:
mostly improvised parts which, since there are only two of us, can change
direction very spontaneously. We're definitely not midi-synched, there are
no click tracks or tightly sequenced parts arranged in advance; just
improvised stuff for the most part.
>
>That is if your drummer only wants to loop drum module sounds rather than
>audio.

It's not so much that he doesn't WANT to loop audio, but there's the
problem of live mics and monitoring without the loop feeding back into
itself. (He's also got MY loops blasting away from a monitor right next to
him so he can hear them over the drum kit, and he doesn't want to hear
about wearing cans!) The module's appeal would be the clean signal it would
send to his looper, and also since the non-looped module sounds would be in
unison with the acoustic drums that trigger them, adding depth and
complexity in variable degrees to the overall sound. Also, a dedicated
looper would allow him to loop samples along with his kit.

There have been several great suggestions on this thread, and I hope to
hear more ideas. So far, although it's all been good advice, the one
suggestion most applicable to our particular situation has also been the
simplest; Alan Barnard's advice involving a DL-4 on the floor next to the
hi-hat...

Thanks everyone,

Tim

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>Well, sorry to disturb you people again with that. Unfortunately my
>search did no good. The only peole I found who had some was musician's
>friend, and they refuse to sell abroad (?!?!).
>Pretty stuck I am.
>So if anyone sees one in alittle shop near at a reasonnable price (like
>in the $200-400 area as we said), please e-mail me privately, and sorry
>to evryone for this again;
>
>
>Olivier Malhomme
>

    I think it is rather immoral to sell a broad  ;)

Don't be sexist, broads hate that!

Colin | niloC



From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb 23 00:19:45 2000
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From: "Dennis Longstaff" <corrobex@dove.net.au>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Upcoming NW Minus shows
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 18:58:05 +1030
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Hi Dave
While you are there see if anyones interested in didges. thanks dennis......
http://corrobex.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Trenkel <improv@peak.org>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Date: Wednesday, 23 February 2000 5:50
Subject: Upcoming NW Minus shows


>Hi, pardon the self-promotional spam,
>
>Minus (Mark France:gtr/vocals/noise, Dave Trenkel:basses/electronics, Henry
>Franzoni:drums) is doing a short NW tour this week:
>
>We'll be in Seattle on Thursday, Feb 24th, at the Rainbow Room. We'll be
>playing with Elaine Difalco and Fabric, the new band from the Hughscore and
>Caveman Shoestore keyboardist/vocalist, which also features Fred Chalenor
>(Hughscore, Zony Mash, Tone Dogs, etc) on bass.
>
>Friday, Feb. 25th, we'll be in Portland at the Tugboat Brewpub, with the
>Aiko Shimada Band. This show is free, though we will gladly accept
>donations, and the Tugboat is an intimate, all-ages and dog-friendly
>establishment.
>
>Saturday, Feb. 26th, we'll be at Squirrels Tavern, Corvallis, OR, once
>again with the Aiko Shimada Band. For this show, we'll be joined by JD
>Monroe on turntables.
>
>Also, take a look at our newly refurbished web presence:
>
>http://listen.to/minusmusic
>
>and
>
>www.mp3.com/-minus-
>
>The MP3.com site features an advance tune from our as-yet unreleased 2nd
CD.
>
>________________________________________________________
>Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org  : www.peak.org/~improv/
>
>"...there will come a day when you won't have to use
>gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in
>your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper
>type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em
>together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em
>together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire."
>                                            -Sun Ra
>________________________________________________________
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb 23 00:21:22 2000
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From: Christine Bard <lerocher@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: looping electronic percussion
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>Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:01:59 -0500
>From: Tim Nelson <tcn62@ici.net>
>To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>Subject: looping electronic percussion
>Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20000221100159.007a9330@pop.ici.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>I've asked this before, but since the listmember subscribershipness is in
>constant flux, maybe someone has an idea...
>
>I'm playing with a percussionist who's developed a severe case of
>loop-envy. We generally play as a duo and he has to sit there on his
>hydraulic-pneumatic drum throne stuck in one layer of real time while I get
>to have all the looping fun.
>
>What he'd like to do is to put triggers on his acoustic kit to control a
>drum module (probably an Alesis D4) which he'd then run to an as-yet
>unspecified looper. Since money IS an object, he's looking at either a
>Headrush or a DL4, which leads to the crux of the biscuit:
>
>Do any of you have any ideas for a way to modify the switches on either of
>these units so they could be stick-controlled? As a kit drummer, his feet
>are too busy to deal with a stompbox. I suppose he could mount the looper
>between his floor toms and hit the switches with the heel of his right
>hand, but it would be particularly cool to have a couple of pads in the kit
>that would serve as switches to start and stop the loop when hit with a
>drumstick.
>
>We've got an old Yamaha DD-5 sitting there; the sounds are horrible, but
>it's got 4 pads and a MIDI out. Since neither the Headrush nor the DL4 are
>MIDI, can anyone suggest an affordable hardware interface solution that
>would allow the DD-5 pads to replace the switches? Or would it make more
>sense to rig up some sort of mechanical stick-activated switches?
>
>Ideas?
>
>Tim 




Is a volume pedal next to the hi hat too prosaic?    You can even use two
and pretend you have a mixer.  (get two Dod 4second delays and fake a stereo
signal...)

...anything with a fader words well, also.


Christine Bard




                                 Christine Bard
                                0~>~<>~><~<>~<~0

             I replaced the headlights in my car with strobe lights.
                   Now it looks like I'm the only one moving. 
                                -Steven Wright




           

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb 23 00:21:24 2000
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From: Hawkeye255@aol.com
Message-ID: <b9.fae5fb.25e4be9e@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 23:39:58 EST
Subject: Re: Electronics Fest Summer 2000 Atlanta Georgia
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when is this gig?

thanks,
    hawkeye

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb 23 03:48:11 2000
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From: "samuel" <samu@gi.intercom.es>
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Hi there those MAC users...

How do you make backups? which hardware and software for backups do you
have?

is it possible to use an alesis ADAT with some software to backup macintosh
files?

Does Pro Tools come with some backup software/facility??

I need to backup about 12 Gigabytes for each of my works..

Thanks in advance


Sam
#ICQ 38770781
Email: samu@findermac.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb 23 04:09:11 2000
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Message-ID: <00b701bf7ddd$04bb9570$51cec22b@camb.scee.sony.co.uk>
From: "Os" <os@scee.sony.co.uk>
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I use Retrospect Express & a CD writer.

(This is arguably a little OT though!)


cheers,
os.



----- Original Message -----
From: samuel <samu@gi.intercom.es>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>; Akai <akai@sonicware.com>;
<logic-users@onelist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 8:44 AM
Subject: Unidentified subject!


> Hi there those MAC users...
>
> How do you make backups? which hardware and software for backups do you
> have?
>
> is it possible to use an alesis ADAT with some software to backup
macintosh
> files?
>
> Does Pro Tools come with some backup software/facility??
>
> I need to backup about 12 Gigabytes for each of my works..
>
> Thanks in advance
>
>
> Sam
> #ICQ 38770781
> Email: samu@findermac.com
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb 23 04:35:07 2000
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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 01:27:45 -0800
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: EDP upgrades in lA???
In-reply-to: <38B36205.6DE32CCC@fuse.net>
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Hi Mike-

At 8:28 PM -0800 2/22/00, Mike Georgin wrote:
>Hello , hello
>This has probably been covered before , ( please excuse me if it has! ) but
>what exactly does the version 5 software do? I've had an EDP for the last 11/2
>- 2 years and I'm not sure if it is upgraded. Is there some way that I can
>tell? Thanks for any info,  Mike

All of your questions are answered in the Echoplex pages of Looper's Delight:

http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/echoplex/echoplex.html

There you will find a page on the upgrade with the release notes, an
extensive echoplex faq with more info, and other goodies.

kim


>Kim Flint wrote:
>
>> At 5:10 PM -0800 2/21/00, Graham  wrote:
>> >Hey fellow loopers,
>> >I've just bought an EDP and need to upgrade it to version 5 software.
>> >Any idea how and where I can do this?
>>
>> sure, you can buy the upgrade direct from Aurisis Research. (That's
>> Matthias and me, the software developers...)  It costs $45, easy to
>> install. Just send a mail to upgrade@aurisis.com and we'll send you all the
>> details.
>>
>> kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | 


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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 11:15:54 +0000
From: Olivier Malhomme <malhomme@vete.ucl.ac.be>
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More. more off. more gear question.

I just spotted a axon controller NGX 77 for about $380
double question
1) is it an interesting price, and..
2) the people here having one or having been testing one, well,  'd be
grateful if I could get a little private message with ypur point, see?


thanks in advance

Olivier

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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 18:59:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Electronics Fest Summer 2000 Atlanta Georgia
From: "c.white" <magicicada@mindspring.com>
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in june sometime..still ironing all of that out.
regards,
c
----------
>From: Hawkeye255@aol.com
>To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>Subject: Re: Electronics Fest Summer 2000 Atlanta Georgia
>Date: Wed, Feb 23, 2000, 12:39 AM
>

>when is this gig?
>
>thanks,
>    hawkeye
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb 23 08:56:04 2000
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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 08:36:04 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Floyd Miller <floyd@studiodust.com>
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At 09:44 AM 2/23/00 +0100, you wrote:
>Hi there those MAC users...
>
>How do you make backups? which hardware and software for backups do you
>have?

I used Retrospect from www.dantz.com.  They have a couple of versions.
The "express" version is less expensive but may not support as many devices
and can't work as a backup server for networked machines.  I bought mine
before they had the "express" version.

Anyway, I really like the simple interface (you can use more complicated
features like selectors and stuff but you don't have to.  Restoring is
easy, too.  I've been able to restore single files (in place or to a
different folder to keep the old and new copies) and when I installed
a larger harddirve I was able to get my whole system off a full back
I made prior to installing the new drive.  Ok, so that's the kind of
stuff you'd expect from any back up program :)

Another nice thing about Retrospect is that they now have the identical
program for Windows which is nice if you have both kinds of computers
and like to have similar software.


>is it possible to use an alesis ADAT with some software to backup macintosh
>files?

I don't think so.


>I need to backup about 12 Gigabytes for each of my works..

You should consider investing in a DDS-3 or DDS-4 SCSI tape drive.
The drives are expensive  but you get from 12 - 24 GB per tape and
the tapes (4mm DAT) are not too expensive.



************************ Floyd Miller
   ***************** floyd@studiodust.com
     ************ http://www.studiodust.com
      ******** http://www.studiodust.com/~floyd
       *****   palace://studiodust.com:9998
        ** TPV: http://www.thepalace.com:8000/perl/palentry.pl?ID=WD9S7VM2

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb 23 10:31:33 2000
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From: David Kirkdorffer <DKirkdorffer@exapps.com>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: The Boston Loopers' Collective IV - Show - March 6th - Middle Eas
	t Restaurant
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:53:32 -0500
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Hello - 

I'd like to connect with any New England area loopers with music for sale.

The Boston Loopers' Collective IV Show will take place March 6th, at the
Middle East Restaurant in Cambridge MA.

Along with the music, I'd like to set-up a concession stand for people to
sell their CD's and tapes, and for mutual mailing list sign-ups.  I'm hoping
to create a context for area loopers to network and learn about eachother.

It seems there are more around than one might think.

So, if you have something to sell, please send me e-mail:
dkirkdorffer@exapps.com

Performances this time will feature:

   * David Barnes & The Echo Chamber Ensemble
   * Ross Hamlin
   * Doug Martelli
   * DJ C

Visuals provided by the inimitable Dr. T

David Kirkdorffer

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From: "K. Douglas Baldwin" <dbaldwin@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
To: "Unit Circle Media" <unitcirc@unitcircle.com>,
        <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: MM4 reviews?
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 14:43:46 -0500
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Kevin,
    I reviewed the MM4 for Guitar World magazine. Like the LD4, it's a fine
box for the bucks. Most of the sounds aim for the center of the original
unit's spectrum, and do so very, very well, sometimes with extra goodies
thrown in. For example, the MXR Phase 90 model not only nails the sound
pretty darn good, it adds a bunch of other variables to what was originally
a one-knob wonder. The A/DA flanger model was good for "average" flanger
settings, but the A/DA could do some things the MM4 couldn't. Only the ring
mod was a total wash, hardly worth hearing. The optional expression pedal is
definitely an option here; I'd say it was a necessity with the LD4. I lose
track of issues and such re. Guitar World, but I bet you could hit their web
site: www.guitarworld.com and read my entire review, if they've posted it
yet.
Douglas Baldwin, Alpha male Coyote, the Trickster
dbaldwin@suffolk.lib.ny.us

-----Original Message-----
From: Unit Circle Media <unitcirc@unitcircle.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Date: Monday, February 21, 2000 5:08 PM
Subject: MM4 reviews?


>while I know it's not strictly looping, I was wondering  if anyone has
>tried the Line 6 MM4 an what they think about it...
>
> thanks,
> Kevin
>
>
>Kevin Goldsmith kevin@unitcircle.com
>Unit Circle Media http://www.unitcircle.com/
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb 23 21:35:41 2000
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From: "X-ray" <ew37@bellsouth.net>
To: "Loopers Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: DL4/volume pedal modifications
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 20:04:23 -0600
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Have any DL4 users cracked open their Line 6 expression pedal yet to see
what's inside??  I'm wondering if a regular volume pedal (Ernie Ball, Boss),
or even other types of expression pedals (EV5) could be modified to behave
like a Line6 expression pedal when connected to the DL4.  I know that Boss
claims the FV300L (the low impedance version) can act as an expression pedal
when used with a special cable (stereo cable??), but I'm not sure if this
would be especially effective since I have heard some EV5 users say the EV5
works great with the DL4, and other users say it does not always work.  Is
it a straightforward electronic component issue, or is the DL4 calibrated
specifically for the range of the Line6 expression pedal???  I really like
the big Boss volume pedals, and I would love to use one with my DL4.


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb 23 22:44:43 2000
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Subject: Re: DL4/volume pedal modifications
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 00 19:20:07 -0800
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From: George Van Wagner <vanwag@earthlink.net>
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Heelback 0‡, toe down 10k‡. that's the secret formula. Now you can modify your pedal to work, or buy one of ours and keep your vintage Boss pedal intact (actually, my Boss RV-100 measures just that). Don't tell the boss I told ya.

George

>Have any DL4 users cracked open their Line 6 expression pedal yet to see
>what's inside??  I'm wondering if a regular volume pedal (Ernie Ball, Boss),
>or even other types of expression pedals (EV5) could be modified to behave
>like a Line6 expression pedal when connected to the DL4.  I know that Boss
>claims the FV300L (the low impedance version) can act as an expression pedal
>when used with a special cable (stereo cable??), but I'm not sure if this
>would be especially effective since I have heard some EV5 users say the EV5
>works great with the DL4, and other users say it does not always work.  Is
>it a straightforward electronic component issue, or is the DL4 calibrated
>specifically for the range of the Line6 expression pedal???  I really like
>the big Boss volume pedals, and I would love to use one with my DL4.
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Wed Feb 23 23:36:25 2000
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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 23:28:06 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: "Scott A. Martin" <scott@morriganrecords.com>
Subject: Digitech RDS footswitches, looping reverb
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I'm in the process of buying a Digitech RDS rackmount delay, and I'm trying
to figure out what sort of footswitches I need.  At the moment, the
functions I'm interested in controlling are bypass, repeat hold, and VCO
control.  The online manual (thanks a TON, BTW, to whoever posted that)
indicates that bypass should use a latching footswitch, but for repeat hold
it only says "Use a switch that connects the tip conductor to ground when
activated."  Should this be a latching or momentary switch?  In a related
question, does anybody have any experience with the Proel "dual polarity"
footswitch?  I'm uncertain whether it switches between latching/unlatching
or normally open/normally closed.  Also, if anyone's had any particularly
good/bad experiences with voltage control pedals with these units, please
let me know.

And now for something completely different...

I've been obsessively watching the 2nd DT video, which I received this
weekend (more on that below), and I've gotten really interested in the
concept of infinite reverb.  We talk a lot about delay looping, but looping
reverbs would seem to open up a very interesting new texture.  Anyone care
to share their experiences with these techniques?  Are the Lexicon reverbs
the only units that allow looping reverb?

Finally, I highly recommend the Torn video series to any neophyte loopers
whose looping experiences (like my own) are limited to recordings and this
discussion list.  Watching DT manipulating his equipment and explaining the
theory behind his technique has really opened up doors for me, and is in
fact one of the big motivations to purchase the above-mentioned RDS.  After
seeing the flexibility of the PCM42, I really want to step beyond the
"phrase"-oriented looping capabilities of my Headrush, and get some more
atmospheric/textural things happening.  Kiss that profit-sharing check
goodbye.... =)


Scott Martin
Morrigan Records
scott@morriganrecords.com
http://www.morriganrecords.com



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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 21:48:54 -0700
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From: the Reverend Rob <reverendrob@realm-of-shade.com>
Subject: Re: Digitech RDS footswitches, looping reverb
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On or around 11:28 PM 2/23/00 -0800, Scott A. Martin said:

>I'm in the process of buying a Digitech RDS rackmount delay, and I'm trying
>to figure out what sort of footswitches I need.  At the moment, the
>functions I'm interested in controlling are bypass, repeat hold, and VCO
>control. 

VCO control must be done by some type of VCO pedal; I believe the DOD FX17
Wah/Volume/Voltage works fine, although I haven't had one to play with in a
long time.  I generally am quite happy with the "reach over and tweak a
knob" setting, especially since I mostly only use my RDS 3.6s for looping
at "set" intervals, usually 1.8s and 3.6s.

> The online manual (thanks a TON, BTW, to whoever posted that)
>indicates that bypass should use a latching footswitch, but for repeat hold
>it only says "Use a switch that connects the tip conductor to ground when
>activated."  Should this be a latching or momentary switch? 

It's supposed to be a latching switch, the same type you'd use on an old
tape echoplex for "echo on/off".  I've got a motley collection of
footswitches for mine, from the ones I used to use on a RE-301 to some
Peavy "on-off" switch for reverb on some amp or other.

==
the Reverend Rob   ICQ: 1280871
http://www.realm-of-shade.com/music : looping mp3s and more

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Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 23:08:46 -0800 (PST)
From: John Tidwell <wedgehed@yahoo.com>
Subject: DT videos?
To: Loopers Delight <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
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What's a good source for ordering David Torn videos?

Many thanks.

John

=====
John Tidwell



__________________________________________________
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 24 09:39:43 2000
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From: RA336@aol.com
Message-ID: <d8.199f2d1.25e69ada@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 09:31:54 EST
Subject: Re: Digitech RDS footswitches, looping reverb
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try controlling bypass and infinite repeat with Boss FS5L switches... they're 
cheap, have a status led powered by 2 AA batts whioch seem rto last forever,  
and the switches interlock with each other so you don't have to chase them 
around the floor. there is also a FS5U switch... same chassis but with a 
unlatch switch.sturdy as heck too. as for the vco, any voltage-control pedal 
will work

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 24 09:49:44 2000
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From: PJBMHB@aol.com
Message-ID: <79.1b4979a.25e69d2e@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 09:41:50 EST
Subject: Re: Digitech RDS footswitches, looping reverb
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you can just use the cheap button top on/off switches from radioshack to do 
the inf. repeat and bypass thing. probably the cheapest solution. good old 
radioshack!! 
=-) PJ

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 24 10:20:52 2000
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 23:59:22 +0900
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, user-forum@waldorf-gmbh.de
From: Sunao Inami <cave@pop1.osk.3web.ne.jp>
Subject: Sunao Inami Live Scheule March 2000.
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Hello,

It is my next live gig info..

Sunao Inami Live Scheule March 2000.

*March 12th-15th France Marseille
at GMEM(Group Music Electroacoustic Marseille)

*March 17th-18th Switzerland Bearn

*March 22th Japan Osaka
at Culb Bayside Jenny
 by TIME CONTROL
more info:
http://www.subrosa.net


details available in my site.

  Keep in touch

 Sunao Inami
http://www.cavestudio.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 24 11:47:56 2000
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From: "Larry Tremblay" <ltct@concentric.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
References: <3.0.6.32.20000223232806.007ae140@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Digitech RDS footswitches, looping reverb
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:28:57 -0500
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> functions I'm interested in controlling are bypass, repeat hold, and VCO
> control.  The online manual (thanks a TON, BTW, to whoever posted that)

I use the FX-17 to control the VCO. I use a footswitch I 
grabbed from a Princeton Reverb to control the bypass.

- Larry Tremblay


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 24 13:27:58 2000
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From: jo@numerica.it
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References: <3.0.6.32.20000223232806.007ae140@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: R: Digitech RDS footswitches, looping reverb
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 18:13:13 +0100
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Hi Scott,
about reverb looping I can tell Eventide 4000 (dsp or gtr) is a wonderful
machine (you need to use something outside for looping). It already has some
interesting delays with long reverbs inside, the quality and sensitivity to
dynamics is really from another world.
Sure it would be possible to do looping reverb, but you might need some more
delay modules that would be available with expansion cards (...pricey!!!).
Infact reverbs take a good quantity of machine's resources so that you can
add just short delays/loops.
Notice that 4000 has a very strange thing inside: it hasn't a tap tempo
control to allow you to control the start/stop of loop or delay time. At the
moment I am experimenting with a time control module to connect to outside
pedals; if you would be interested I could update you about the results.
About DT Video, may I ask you where did you find it?
I am in Italy and no way to find them here; any suggestion?

Thanks and ciao,

Luca


----- Original Message -----
From: Scott A. Martin <scott@morriganrecords.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 8:28 AM
Subject: Digitech RDS footswitches, looping reverb


> I'm in the process of buying a Digitech RDS rackmount delay, and I'm
trying
> to figure out what sort of footswitches I need.  At the moment, the
> functions I'm interested in controlling are bypass, repeat hold, and VCO
> control.  The online manual (thanks a TON, BTW, to whoever posted that)
> indicates that bypass should use a latching footswitch, but for repeat
hold
> it only says "Use a switch that connects the tip conductor to ground when
> activated."  Should this be a latching or momentary switch?  In a related
> question, does anybody have any experience with the Proel "dual polarity"
> footswitch?  I'm uncertain whether it switches between latching/unlatching
> or normally open/normally closed.  Also, if anyone's had any particularly
> good/bad experiences with voltage control pedals with these units, please
> let me know.
>
> And now for something completely different...
>
> I've been obsessively watching the 2nd DT video, which I received this
> weekend (more on that below), and I've gotten really interested in the
> concept of infinite reverb.  We talk a lot about delay looping, but
looping
> reverbs would seem to open up a very interesting new texture.  Anyone care
> to share their experiences with these techniques?  Are the Lexicon reverbs
> the only units that allow looping reverb?
>
> Finally, I highly recommend the Torn video series to any neophyte loopers
> whose looping experiences (like my own) are limited to recordings and this
> discussion list.  Watching DT manipulating his equipment and explaining
the
> theory behind his technique has really opened up doors for me, and is in
> fact one of the big motivations to purchase the above-mentioned RDS.
After
> seeing the flexibility of the PCM42, I really want to step beyond the
> "phrase"-oriented looping capabilities of my Headrush, and get some more
> atmospheric/textural things happening.  Kiss that profit-sharing check
> goodbye.... =)
>
>
> Scott Martin
> Morrigan Records
> scott@morriganrecords.com
> http://www.morriganrecords.com
>
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 24 17:43:52 2000
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From: Echoechoparkpark@aol.com
Message-ID: <ee.1be5c79.25e70912@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 17:22:10 EST
Subject: Re: Cline/Bendian in Portland
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In a message dated 2/21/0 5:55:45 PM, improv@peak.org writes:

>>Just have to say I caught this show, practically by accident. We were 
gigging
>>a block and a half away in downtown L.A. and afterward we walked by The 
Smell
>>and heard all this racket.

>I just wanted to add that *IT REALLY SUCKS* that Cline and Bendian are
>playing 3 nights withing driving distance of me (Eugene, Portland and
>Seattle) and I can't make any of the shows because I have gigs.

I feel your pain, brother. I've been there. Nels and our very own LD'er Stig  
are local boys and I've been itching to catch them both for a year and a 
half, but always missed these interesting shows due to schedules - often my 
own gigs, too.  Like I said - only by accident did I manage to catch this 
one! 

> I'll actually be playing just a few blocks away from their PDX show, but it
>looks logistically impossible, unless they play really late.

Could be - I think they went on about 11:50 and I heard they were scheduled 
for 10:00.  This is also why I was able to not miss it.

> The Rob Blakeslee 4-tet, awesome players and good friends of mine, are 
openning
>the
>Portland show, don't miss this if you are at all capable...


What also sucks is they will probably miss all three of your shows, too.

eric p
echo park

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 24 18:07:58 2000
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From: "George Washington" <jeremiah266@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: DT videos?
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 16:34:30 CST
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I have two david torn video for 30$ CAlled painting with guitars. They 
retailed for. 29.99


>From: John Tidwell <wedgehed@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>To: Loopers Delight <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>Subject: DT videos?
>Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 23:08:46 -0800 (PST)
>
>What's a good source for ordering David Torn videos?
>
>Many thanks.
>
>John
>
>=====
>John Tidwell
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
>http://im.yahoo.com
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 24 18:25:00 2000
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 15:21:03 -0800 (PST)
From: alias crossings <brigadoom@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: looping electronic sounds 
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
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--- Christine Bard <lerocher@pipeline.com> wrote:
> >Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:01:59 -0500
> >From: Tim Nelson <tcn62@ici.net>
> >Subject: looping electronic percussion

> Is a volume pedal next to the hi hat too prosaic?   
> You can even use two
> and pretend you have a mixer.  (get two Dod 4second
> delays and fake a stereo
> signal...)
> ...anything with a fader words well, also.

   I just got into this looping thing.  My rig
consists 
of a Jamman, Alesis MIDIverb IV and a Behringer
Composer, I buss all my inputs through a MAckie
1402VLZ
and use the AUX 1,2 for the Jamman (looper) and the
Effects processor,  the output of the jamman goes back
into the line-in of the board so that I can layer some
other sounds while hearing the looped program and add
more effects, feedback is still a issue I'm working
on.
  The Compressor, I havn't found a practical use for
it yet but I intend on using it to control the gain
levels signals into the Jamman so that the signal
levels are well balanced.   so far I've been looping
sounds for a korg X-3, Theremin through a Wah-wah
"sounds like a turntable under proper setting", mic
(SFX, voice), fretless bass, fretted 5 string, guitar.
  I had all this gear and didn't really know what to
do with it until I saw this one particular gig.  Just
got inspired to get into the looping business after
seeing David Torn & Will Calhoun do there looping gig
@ the knit(NYC).


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 24 18:23:37 2000
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Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 00:09:04 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs=20Turi=F1o?= <j-turino@pop.agri.ch>
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Organization: i45
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
CC: user-forum@waldorf-gmbh.de
Subject: Re: Sunao Inami Live Scheule March 2000.
References: <v04010120b4daf7ca9a52@pop1.osk.3web.ne.jp>
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Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format.
--------------1023224EBA06CCFE86A41A0A
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="------------7828ECE911DE49CEEAA47CD9"


--------------7828ECE911DE49CEEAA47CD9
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

hello sunao, hi loopers

if you like to do an additional gig in switzerland, e-mail me.

the place would be boa, lucerne ( http://boaluzern.ch ) or in my club,
i45 in zug ( www.i45.ch )
any others loopers touring in switzerland or europe are wellcome ...
i'll do everything for my looper family ;-)

keep on looping, jes=FAs



Sunao Inami schrieb:

> Hello,
>
> It is my next live gig info..
>
> Sunao Inami Live Scheule March 2000.
>
> *March 12th-15th France Marseille
> at GMEM(Group Music Electroacoustic Marseille)
>
> *March 17th-18th Switzerland Bearn
>
> *March 22th Japan Osaka
> at Culb Bayside Jenny
>  by TIME CONTROL
> more info:
> http://www.subrosa.net
>
> details available in my site.
>
>   Keep in touch
>
>  Sunao Inami
> http://www.cavestudio.com

--------------7828ECE911DE49CEEAA47CD9
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
hello sunao, hi loopers
<p>if you like to do an additional gig in switzerland, e-mail me.
<p>the place would be boa, lucerne ( <u><A HREF="http://boaluzern.ch">http://boaluzern.ch</A></u> ) or in
my club, i45 in zug ( <u>www.i45.ch</u> )
<br>any others loopers touring in switzerland or europe are wellcome ...
i'll do everything for my looper family ;-)
<p>keep on looping, jes&uacute;s
<br>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;
<p>Sunao Inami schrieb:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Hello,
<p>It is my next live gig info..
<p>Sunao Inami Live Scheule March 2000.
<p>*March 12th-15th France Marseille
<br>at GMEM(Group Music Electroacoustic Marseille)
<p>*March 17th-18th Switzerland Bearn
<p>*March 22th Japan Osaka
<br>at Culb Bayside Jenny
<br>&nbsp;by TIME CONTROL
<br>more info:
<br><a href="http://www.subrosa.net">http://www.subrosa.net</a>
<p>details available in my site.
<p>&nbsp; Keep in touch
<p>&nbsp;Sunao Inami
<br><a href="http://www.cavestudio.com">http://www.cavestudio.com</a></blockquote>
</html>

--------------7828ECE911DE49CEEAA47CD9--

--------------1023224EBA06CCFE86A41A0A
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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Content-Disposition: attachment;
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begin:vcard 
n:Turiño ;Jesús
tel;fax:+41 41 761 33 91 (G)
tel;home:+41 41 210 39 69
tel;work:+41 41 761 26 42
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:www.i45.ch
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version:2.1
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--------------1023224EBA06CCFE86A41A0A--

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 24 18:34:12 2000
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 18:31:30 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Tim Nelson <tcn62@ici.net>
Subject: Re: Digitech RDS footswitches, looping reverb
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At 11:28 AM 2/24/00 -0500, you wrote:
>> functions I'm interested in controlling are bypass, repeat hold, and VCO
>> control.  The online manual (thanks a TON, BTW, to whoever posted that)

The absolute cheapest footswitch I've seen that would control the bypass
and repeat hold is Radio Shack part # 44-610, for a whole $4.49 each. You'd
have to change the plug, though. You can find 'em near the tape recorder
supplies...

I've got one velcroed to my pedalboard right next to a "real" one (ie, from
a respected manufacturer) that cost five times as much (one for bypass, one
for repeat hold), and they're pretty much identical. I've been stomping on
the cheap little thing daily with my big size 12's, and it's lasted over a
year now with no ill effects, although having said that it'll probably
self-destruct into little plastic smithereens the next time I even look at it!

Tim

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 24 20:50:32 2000
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Thanks a lot George.  I actually already own the Line6 exp pedal.  It's
fine, but I'm cursed with HUGE feet and my Boss pedal is a little more
bigfoot-freindly.

Mike

>Heelback 0‡, toe down 10k‡. that's the secret formula. Now you can >modify
your pedal to work, or buy one of ours and keep your vintage >Boss pedal
intact (actually, my Boss RV-100 measures just that).


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 24 21:03:57 2000
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Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 17:57:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Aaron Schindler <aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com>
Subject: torn vs. fripp
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which do you enjoy more,the ambient/soundscape/looping
music of David Torn or Robert Fripp? And Why?

- A
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
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On 2/24/00 A opened a big can of worms with:

>which do you enjoy more,the ambient/soundscape/looping
>music of David Torn or Robert Fripp? And Why?
>
>- A
>__________________________________________________


Then I ducked......

Patrick
                     Fingerpaint's New Release:

                            IN THE LOOP

      ... an intelligent, stimulating mixture of mimimaist spacebeats and
           obscure samples layered upon a hypnotic illbient backdrop.

                       DIGITAL ARTIFACT # 12

                      http://www.fingerpaint.net

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uhm...neither.
----------
>From: Aaron Schindler <aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com>
>To: looper list <loopers-delight@annihilist.com>
>Subject: torn vs. fripp
>Date: Thu, Feb 24, 2000, 9:57 PM
>

>which do you enjoy more,the ambient/soundscape/looping
>music of David Torn or Robert Fripp? And Why?
>
>- A
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
>http://im.yahoo.com
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 24 22:27:54 2000
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I enjoy them both. At the moment, I'm listening to dt's 'and well i found
no bottom' and enjoying it immensely. Fripp and Eno's "Evening Star" might
be next. But it's never a question of greater preference as if they have to
be ranked in a linear pecking order totem pole. I didn't watch the Grammys,
either.

One thing both of these fine musicians have in common is the fact that they
have each had extensive backgrounds in a variety of contexts and have
played with a wide spectrum of influential and interesting collaborators.
It is through their respective interactions with these artists that we are
able to see their playing from a broader range of perspectives than would
normally be afforded the listeners of a less musically promiscuous player.
I like to see how an excellent musician functions in different situations,
bouncing a diversity of ideas off a number of innovative co-conspirators
and responding creatively when the array of responses come bouncing back.

-t

At 05:57 PM 2/24/00 -0800, you wrote:
>which do you enjoy more,the ambient/soundscape/looping
>music of David Torn or Robert Fripp? And Why?
>
>- A

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 24 23:07:50 2000
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Whoa, a debate about the two mack-daddies of looped guitar?!  This could get
ugly!

For my part, I wuv 'em both and consider them among my favorites.

However, if pressed, I'd have to admit that I wish Fripp used his equipment
a bit more resourcefully; I mean, with all the effects and synth modules he
uses, why does he resort to that Mellotron-ish synthy sound 90% of the time,
ignoring all the other timbral possibilities available to him?  (probable
answer:  because he likes it)  I think Torn gets more sonic mileage out of
his equipment, especially considering that he's not going the synth route,
but his pieces often lack the slow-burning, gradually-climaxing tension that
Fripp is so great at manipulating.

As a final aside, Torn's much more fun to watch during a performance.



Peter

PS  My Boss GT-3 arrived in the mail yesterday.  God, what a piece of
machinery!  This thing is going to keep me busy for years...


----- Original Message -----
From: Aaron Schindler <aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com>
To: looper list <loopers-delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 8:57 PM
Subject: torn vs. fripp


> which do you enjoy more,the ambient/soundscape/looping
> music of David Torn or Robert Fripp? And Why?
>
> - A
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://im.yahoo.com
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Thu Feb 24 22:47:38 2000
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Well, I suspect that DT could take Fripp at hand to hand, but beyond 
that, why is it a competition?

George

>which do you enjoy more,the ambient/soundscape/looping
>music of David Torn or Robert Fripp? And Why?
>
>- A
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
>http://im.yahoo.com
>
>

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torn is tubes, fripp is transistors.

k

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At 05:57 PM 2/24/00 -0800, you wrote:
>which do you enjoy more,the ambient/soundscape/looping
>music of David Torn or Robert Fripp? And Why?
>
>- A

I'm still trying to decide between Ben Neill and Squarepusher myself.

Paolo

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When I first saw the header, I got excited because I thought it was an
upcoming Celebrity Deathmatch.

Oh well,
Paolo

:) :) :)

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 25 00:17:52 2000
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I say we dress them both like chickens and have a cockfight!

I've never heard Torn before. Some people say I should, but when they try to 
convince me, my chickens usually beat the crap out of their chickens.

Matt



Today's Quote:

"I dressed up like a chicken and entered a cockfight when I was a lad. I 
quickly learned not to do it ever again. They may look like gentle, majestic 
creatures, but roosters are really evil little bitches" - Albert Einstein
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Both of them are great, but I definitely agree with
that Fripp is only using a marginal portion of his resources.
And he sure could explore it some more.

As with most guitarloopers, I find these constant FADING IN AND OUT OF NOTES, quite
tedious after a while. It would be more interesting if they'd loop a guitar
with a sharp pick attack and build a rhythmically complex web of notes instead,
not to talk of a probable KEY CHANGE all of a sudden, to make things happening.

I have one Fripp Cd "Blessing of tears" that is extremely beautiful. The old ones on vinyl (the 70's
and 80's stuff). But I think the rest tend to sound the same. Is that why there arent THAT many players who indulge
in looping? It tends to sound the same no matter who it is.

Torn is definitely a favorite, and gets more mileage...but who cares?
It's the end result that counts...what it soudns like in the end.
Between those two, it's a tie.

regards /Mats

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Shindler [mailto:shindler@mediaone.net]
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 4:53 AM
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: torn vs. fripp


Whoa, a debate about the two mack-daddies of looped guitar?!  This could get
ugly!

For my part, I wuv 'em both and consider them among my favorites.

However, if pressed, I'd have to admit that I wish Fripp used his equipment
a bit more resourcefully; I mean, with all the effects and synth modules he
uses, why does he resort to that Mellotron-ish synthy sound 90% of the time,
ignoring all the other timbral possibilities available to him?  (probable
answer:  because he likes it)  I think Torn gets more sonic mileage out of
his equipment, especially considering that he's not going the synth route,
but his pieces often lack the slow-burning, gradually-climaxing tension that
Fripp is so great at manipulating.

As a final aside, Torn's much more fun to watch during a performance.



Peter

PS  My Boss GT-3 arrived in the mail yesterday.  God, what a piece of
machinery!  This thing is going to keep me busy for years...


----- Original Message -----
From: Aaron Schindler <aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com>
To: looper list <loopers-delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 8:57 PM
Subject: torn vs. fripp


> which do you enjoy more,the ambient/soundscape/looping
> music of David Torn or Robert Fripp? And Why?
>
> - A
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://im.yahoo.com
>


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From: Tim Nelson <tcn62@ici.net>
Subject: Re: torn vs. fripp
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At 11:45 PM 2/24/00 -0500, you wrote:
>I'm still trying to decide between Ben Neill and Squarepusher myself.
>
>Paolo

Speaking of Ben Neill, does anyone know what equipment he uses? His
"mutantrumpet" is very well-documented, but he also uses a huge rack fulla
gear, and I'd love to know what he loops with...

Tim

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Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 04:03:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Aaron Schindler <aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: torn vs. fripp
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Interesting how many people assume I meant - "who is
better" (I supposed due to the poorly worded subject),
I actually asked who do you ENJOY more, you may simply
have a preference - I doubt everyone likes all music
equally ; I thought it would be interesting to hear
exactly what drew you to one particular artist more
than another. I ask because I've listened to a lot of
Fripp and relatively little Torn, and was interested
in how similar/dissimilar they are. Thanks for the
feedback.
Aaron

--- George Van Wagner <vanwag@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Well, I suspect that DT could take Fripp at hand to
> hand, but beyond 
> that, why is it a competition?
> 
> George
> 
> >which do you enjoy more,the
> ambient/soundscape/looping
> >music of David Torn or Robert Fripp? And Why?
> >
> >- A
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> >http://im.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> 
> 
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com

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From: "David Potter" <papadave55@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Describing looping to others
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 05:56:30 PST
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Hi guys,                                                    2/25/2000
   The more I loop and get excited about the art of painting with sound the 
more I like to share the experience of what it is with others.  My old jazz 
musician teacher from S.F. Herbie Lewis asked me what's looping?  What's a 
looper?  I gave him my best description but somehow I feel I could have done 
better.  Do you have short,clear, consice ways of explaining to granny or 
Joe Bob or anyone to give them a good picture of what looping is?  Thanks, 
Papa Dave

        Looping is..............
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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my wife describes my looping as either, "pretty" or "ugly". not sure that 
helps. =-) PJ

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 25 09:43:21 2000
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From: "Mats Eriksson (ECS)" <Mats.Eriksson@ecs.ericsson.se>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Describing looping to others
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 15:18:17 +0100
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How about the audio equivalent of an ESCHER painting?
Ya know, those stairs, figures that is perspectively screwed so they go upstairs as 
well as downstairs(!) and left and right at the same time as they go round in a square building and so on...tricks the eye...
Objects in a picture that ends nowhere, but yet, turn its back on itself! 

What about...
Sonic Fractals?

...ok then... not for Joe Bob or Granny perhaps ...:-) 
/mats

-----Original Message-----
From: PJBMHB@aol.com [mailto:PJBMHB@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 3:05 PM
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Describing looping to others


my wife describes my looping as either, "pretty" or "ugly". not sure that 
helps. =-) PJ


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 25 10:37:35 2000
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From: "Dennis W. Leas" <dennis@mdbs.com>
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>How about the audio equivalent of an ESCHER painting?

I LIKE it!

Dennis Leas
-----------------------------
dennis@mdbs.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 25 10:59:33 2000
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From: "Javier Miranda V." <gnominus@earthling.net>
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Subject: RE: torn vs. fripp
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 07:43:13 -0800
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OK folks, would you please indulge me and list for me a list of DT records
that I must have.  I just realised I have no DT CDs.  Hard to get into the
ongoing argument this way.

Thanks.

  | -----Original Message-----
  | From: Mats Eriksson (ECS) [mailto:Mats.Eriksson@ecs.ericsson.se]
  | Sent: Friday 25 February 2000 12:16 AM
  | To: 'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'
  | Subject: RE: torn vs. fripp
  |
  | I have one Fripp Cd "Blessing of tears" that is extremely
  | beautiful. The old ones on vinyl (the 70's
  | and 80's stuff). But I think the rest tend to sound the same.
  | Is that why there arent THAT many players who indulge
  | in looping? It tends to sound the same no matter who it is.

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 25 11:58:12 2000
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Since a lot of otherwise very nice people seem to sometimes think of 
technology as, somehow, "cheating" when applied to the arts in general (and 
music in particular) I use the following analogy when talking about looping. 

Think about juggling. A juggler throws an object into the air and it returns. 
He throws it again and it returns. He throws many objects into the space 
above him and they all return. This "circle of motion" keeps going as long as 
(and as well as) the skill of the juggler holds out. 

Then imagine that the juggler adds some newfangled "antigravity" technology 
to his routine that allows him to put one of these "circles of motion" in 
place up in the air above his head and then remove his hands and still have 
it hanging their circling as long as he wishes.

Further, imagine that he is able to hang ANY number of these moving "circles" 
of objects in midair--all sorts of objects, large, small, living or 
inanimate, whatever--and have the circles all chain in and out of one another 
and dance in the air above his head. What a show that would be!

Certainly, there might still be a few who would scoff and say that this 
marvel was not "real" juggling in the traditional sense. But one would be 
hard pressed, I think, to make that judgment stick for long. Because at it's 
base is still involved all of the original skills of juggling. The 
"antigravity" technology is just an "amplification" of these. And, with 
artistry and skill, technology just becomes another one of the things the 
artist juggles. 

That is what looping is "like."

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 25 12:02:34 2000
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Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:53:42 -0300
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From: miguel.barella@jpbrasil.com.br (MAT)
Subject: Re:RE: torn vs. fripp
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I suggest  DT's "Cloud About Mercury" with Bruford & Levin (2/4 of King Crimson
to make things more confuse) and David Sylvian's "Secrets from the beehive" so
you can compare how does DT and RF colaborate with the same artist (RF plays on
Sylvian's Gone to Earth as a colaborator).

Miguel

____________________Separador de Resposta____________________
Assunto:    RE: torn vs. fripp
Autor:  "Javier Miranda V." <gnominus@earthling.net>
Data:       25/02/2000 11:13

OK folks, would you please indulge me and list for me a list of DT records
that I must have.  I just realised I have no DT CDs.  Hard to get into the
ongoing argument this way.

Thanks.

  | -----Original Message-----
  | From: Mats Eriksson (ECS) [mailto:Mats.Eriksson@ecs.ericsson.se]
  | Sent: Friday 25 February 2000 12:16 AM
  | To: 'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'
  | Subject: RE: torn vs. fripp
  |
  | I have one Fripp Cd "Blessing of tears" that is extremely
  | beautiful. The old ones on vinyl (the 70's
  | and 80's stuff). But I think the rest tend to sound the same.
  | Is that why there arent THAT many players who indulge
  | in looping? It tends to sound the same no matter who it is.

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 25 12:58:40 2000
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From: "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@earthlight.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
References: <000109A0.C22133@jpbrasil.com.br>
Subject: Describing Looping to Others...?
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 09:51:37 -0800
Organization: EarthLight Productions
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Pretty much a lost cause with a lot of folks, if not an unnecessary use of
words to boot.  How much better to just PLAY it for them?  Let the listener
decide what they're hearing, and the rest pretty much goes as it goes, eh?

Stephen Goodman
EarthLight Productions * http://www.earthlight.net

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At 01:53 PM 2/25/00 -0300, you wrote:
>I suggest  DT's "Cloud About Mercury" with Bruford & Levin (2/4 of King
Crimson
>to make things more confuse) and David Sylvian's "Secrets from the
beehive" so
>you can compare how does DT and RF colaborate with the same artist (RF
plays on
>Sylvian's Gone to Earth as a colaborator).
>
>Miguel


or you could get Bruford/Levin's "Upper Extremities" which has some tasty
Torn and Sylvian/Fripp's "The First Day" (which has Trey Gunn and Pat
Mastelotto, the rhythm section of the current King Crimson).

as far as Torn recomendations, i've said before (i even think in this
forum) "What Means Solid, Traveller?", "Polytown" and Mark Isham's Score
for "The Beast" are great places to start. then again "Cloud About Mercury"
is the record that completely changed the way i approach music...

and maybe even someday the "Splattercell" disc will be released!  

m

=====================================================================
=                                                                   =
=         M  a  r   k      C  h  r  i  s  t  e  n  s  e  n          =
=     Cramped Quarters Studio / Jasperpottamus Music Publishing     =
=                  internet: murkie@middlebury.edu                  =
=          http://www.middlebury.edu/~mchriste/murkie.html          =
=                                                                   =
=====================================================================

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 25 13:28:44 2000
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From: "Mike Biffle" <mbiffle@svg.com>
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Subject: Re: torn vs. fripp
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>>> Aaron Schindler <aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com> 02/24 6:01 PM >>>
which do you enjoy more,the ambient/soundscape/looping music of David
Torn or Robert Fripp? And Why?

While I love both players and could say they've been important
influences on me, I find David Torn more exciting to listen to
because, to me, his tracks feel less contrived and more off the cuff.
He's also not afraid to just play the damn guitar... Like Fripp, DT
has pioneered looping and sound treatments extensively and they both
excel at this in their own unique ways.

Now... Fripp has amazed me through the years... I've was able to see
both ProjeKCt 2 and 4... which I've heard criticised heavily, but feel
that both contained some amazing moments of pure music. I much prefer
the ProjeKCts to Crimson. (Flameproof suit ON!) Those projects also
gave me a much needed dose of pure Fripp energy, with him stepping out
and just ripping with his trademark sounds and audio events/treatments
as well as looping.

One thing about them live... just pure sound tech... It's always been
easier for me to find Fripp in the mix than David. I haven't had the
opportunity to see DT in the last couple years, but back when I did
see him a couple times, I could barely hear him in the mix. Hopefully
things have improved in that department!

In the end I still love them both! 

Peace,
-Miko

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Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:26:55 -0800
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Describing looping to others
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be careful that you're not describing the style of music, rather than a
technique used in creating it! As soon as you start talking about "sound
paintings" and such, to me you are just describing a sort of ambient music
where looping is used, but you're not really giving a description of
looping. You could just as easily use looping for industrial metal or
bluegrass or modern barber shop quartet or world techno or whatever.

I usually say that looping is just a musical technique of sampling and
manipulating audio data in real time. If they have more questions, I
explain more about the technique, putting it into the context of whatever
type of music they like. That works great!

kim

>How about the audio equivalent of an ESCHER painting?
>Ya know, those stairs, figures that is perspectively screwed so they go
>upstairs as
>well as downstairs(!) and left and right at the same time as they go round
>in a square building and so on...tricks the eye...
>Objects in a picture that ends nowhere, but yet, turn its back on itself!
>
>What about...
>Sonic Fractals?
>
>...ok then... not for Joe Bob or Granny perhaps ...:-)
>/mats
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: PJBMHB@aol.com [mailto:PJBMHB@aol.com]
>Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 3:05 PM
>To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>Subject: Re: Describing looping to others
>
>
>my wife describes my looping as either, "pretty" or "ugly". not sure that
>helps. =-) PJ


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | 


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 25 13:43:50 2000
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From: David Kirkdorffer <DKirkdorffer@exapps.com>
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Hmm. Who is Robert Fripp?  I've never heard of him.


-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron Schindler [mailto:aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 8:57 PM
To: looper list
Subject: torn vs. fripp


which do you enjoy more,the ambient/soundscape/looping
music of David Torn or Robert Fripp? And Why?

- A
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 25 13:55:49 2000
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I need to know what an Escher painting is to relate it to looping!


>From: "Dennis W. Leas" <dennis@mdbs.com>
>Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>Subject: Re: Describing looping to others
>Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:24:12 -0500
>
> >How about the audio equivalent of an ESCHER painting?
>
>I LIKE it!
>
>Dennis Leas
>-----------------------------
>dennis@mdbs.com
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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>>> "David Potter" <papadave55@hotmail.com> 02/25 10:53 AM >>>
> I need to know what an Escher painting is to relate it to looping!

http://www.worldofescher.com/gallery/

Lots of examples of his amazing work!

BTW: I still want my copy of the Loopers Delight CD Volume 2 back! 

Hope all's well with you and yours...
-Biffoz

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>>>> Aaron Schindler <aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com> 02/24 6:01 PM >>>
>which do you enjoy more,the ambient/soundscape/looping music of David
>Torn or Robert Fripp? And Why?
>
>While I love both players and could say they've been important
>influences on me, I find David Torn more exciting to listen to
>because, to me, his tracks feel less contrived and more off the cuff.
>He's also not afraid to just play the damn guitar... Like Fripp, DT


i am new to this list but it is a great one and i am glad i joined.  and
now my  two cents on the fripp/torn thing.  the last statement above pretty
much sums it up for me.  torn will just play the damn guitar and not worry
about the way he holds the pick.  fripp has some great stuff with crimson,
solo and with mr. eno - but  fripp has got to be the most pretentious
person ever to play the guitar.  i heard a lecture by him once and he spent
a half hour tearing jimi hendrix apart because jimi didn't use proper
technique.  torn's POLYTOWN (w/bozzio and karn)  and WHAT MEANS SOLID
TRAVELLER  are both masterpieces in my opinion.  i used to be on the torn
mailing list and he would write messages from time to time and give
everyone insights on his compositions and what he was up to - and if you
sent him email, he would send it back.  i love approachable geniuses.


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Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 15:37:10 -0500
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------1CC026A4FF7E8BC56C59453B
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Hi -
     I am a newcomer to this list, so I hope a little shameless
self-promotion is OK. I'm sure someone will be interested in this
performance, sorry for the short notice. It will be 1/2 DJing & 1/2
loop-based live mixing. Here's a list of some of the gear we use :
Lexicon Vortex
Digitech Timemachine RDS8000
Boss PS-3 pitchshifter/delay
Oberheim Echoplex
Dr.Sample

===========================
SPACECAKES
Volume #2
ambient ~ trip-hop ~ lounge
---------------------------
featuring the
Background Music System
with
DJ TORTOISEHEAD
& DR. MOJO
---------------------------
visual engineering by
TOTAL ECLIPSE MULTIMEDIA
---------------------------
Saturday  2/26  9PM
---------------------------
@ Halcyon
227 Smith St. Brooklyn
www.halcyonline.com
718-260-WAXY
===========================

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--------------1CC026A4FF7E8BC56C59453B--

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 25 15:59:11 2000
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From: "Mats Eriksson (ECS)" <Mats.Eriksson@ecs.ericsson.se>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Describing looping to others
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I usually give it a funny twist with saying, and confessing about,
"well its a technique for us lazy bummers, that allow us to play a thing just ONCE, we don't have to stay that busy with our hands, and then recycle it, just like trash, garbage...it comes back..." and then after a while raising my hands in the air (demonstrating it) saying: "Hey, look and listen!... no hands...!" 

Most people, even senior citizens, do know what a tape recorder or natural echo (yelling in Grand Canyon) was/is, and you can elaborate it from there...well they even now what an old vinyl record was...just tell them the mean way:" It's just like an old record that's stuck!" 
/mats

-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Flint [mailto:kflint@annihilist.com]
Sent: den 25 februari 2000 19:27
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: RE: Describing looping to others


be careful that you're not describing the style of music, rather than a
technique used in creating it! As soon as you start talking about "sound
paintings" and such, to me you are just describing a sort of ambient music
where looping is used, but you're not really giving a description of
looping. You could just as easily use looping for industrial metal or
bluegrass or modern barber shop quartet or world techno or whatever.

I usually say that looping is just a musical technique of sampling and
manipulating audio data in real time. If they have more questions, I
explain more about the technique, putting it into the context of whatever
type of music they like. That works great!

kim

>How about the audio equivalent of an ESCHER painting?
>Ya know, those stairs, figures that is perspectively screwed so they go
>upstairs as
>well as downstairs(!) and left and right at the same time as they go round
>in a square building and so on...tricks the eye...
>Objects in a picture that ends nowhere, but yet, turn its back on itself!
>
>What about...
>Sonic Fractals?
>
>...ok then... not for Joe Bob or Granny perhaps ...:-)
>/mats
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: PJBMHB@aol.com [mailto:PJBMHB@aol.com]
>Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 3:05 PM
>To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>Subject: Re: Describing looping to others
>
>
>my wife describes my looping as either, "pretty" or "ugly". not sure that
>helps. =-) PJ


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | 



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Where is this in Brooklyn?  I'm in manhattan, and I'd love to check it out.
Williamsburg?

MT


>Hi -
>     I am a newcomer to this list, so I hope a little shameless
>self-promotion is OK. I'm sure someone will be interested in this
>performance, sorry for the short notice. It will be 1/2 DJing & 1/2
>loop-based live mixing. Here's a list of some of the gear we use :
>Lexicon Vortex
>Digitech Timemachine RDS8000
>Boss PS-3 pitchshifter/delay
>Oberheim Echoplex
>Dr.Sample
>
>===========================
>SPACECAKES
>Volume #2
>ambient ~ trip-hop ~ lounge
>---------------------------
>featuring the
>Background Music System
>with
>DJ TORTOISEHEAD
>& DR. MOJO
>---------------------------
>visual engineering by
>TOTAL ECLIPSE MULTIMEDIA
>---------------------------
>Saturday  2/26  9PM
>---------------------------
>@ Halcyon
>227 Smith St. Brooklyn
>www.halcyonline.com
>718-260-WAXY
>========================

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 25 16:03:38 2000
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To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: torn vs. fripp
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Finally, someone shares my view on Fripp as well!
But, in the end,it's what comes out of the speakers that counts.
Fripp's indulging more in HOW, than WHAT. /mats

solo and with mr. eno - but  fripp has got to be the most pretentious
person ever to play the guitar.  i heard a lecture by him once and he spent
a half hour tearing jimi hendrix apart because jimi didn't use proper
technique.  

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David Potter wrote:

> I need to know what an Escher painting is to relate it to looping!
>
> >From: "Dennis W. Leas" <dennis@mdbs.com>
> >Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> >To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
> >Subject: Re: Describing looping to others
> >Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:24:12 -0500
> >
> > >How about the audio equivalent of an ESCHER painting?
> >
> >I LIKE it!
> >
> >Dennis Leas

hm,

not to be an off-topic nitpicker here :-), but i'm afraid there's no
such thing as an escher *painting* (or at least no examples i've seen
in the public domain). escher's chosen mediums were woodcut and
lithograph (so escher *drawing* would be more correct...sorry!).


as for dtorn/fripp, i s'pose i should chime in with my dos centavos;
haven't seen but fripp live (and that was pretty tame-except when at
several points in the evening's program his regenerations got the best
of him and a mad scramble to shut things down insued: great fun that!),
but mr. torn's been seen (or read) around these parts, so i better be
careful what i say 'bout him :-)...seriously, they are both amazing
souls, i do think i like fripp's early crimson/eno work the best (i keep
up with the latter output but sporadically, hoping *this one* will be
great)...some of his solos from eno's first few albums rank among my
very favorite bits. mr. torn is a world unto himself. i enjoy his
sylvian collaborations as well (great subterfuge, while fripp stays more
on top?). anyway, one unfamiliar with either or both (hard to imagine on
this list) would do well to sample as befits their discretion.

lance g.

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Now, Kim, I am careful. I said AUDIO equivalent, not MUSICAL equivalent, there's a difference.

Look at the link, that Mike Biffle sent, BTW thanks! That will get you folks a hint of the idea.
M C Escher uses THE SAME TECHNIQUE, basically, in all his paintings, but paints/draws different motifs
all the time. And then, it was just a suggestion... "how about..." But definitely not a simple explanation for John Doe or Granny! 

In classical music notation it is called an OSTINATO pattern. Ravels Bolero being the most famous composition,
/demonstration of how to use an OSTINATO pattern all the way through. Ravel was really a looper DJ...


>be careful that you're not describing the style of music, rather than a

kim

>>How about the audio equivalent of an ESCHER painting?

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Fri Feb 25 17:19:02 2000
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Subject: Weird Lexicon MPX100 experience
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Hey.

I just tried out that MPX100 and it's got a weird patch that
does a sample and hold effect on whatever audio comes through it.

And then it's got another one where if you play clean, syncopated
guitar (or something like a clavinet) it creates a really wild 
funky rhythmic POPPING effect kind of like a sequencer on steroids.

You gotta try this thing.  It would be very cool for loops and such.

Soapbox mode off.





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Similarly, I use the analogy of realtime multitrack
recording, since most mortals are at least familiar
with that concept.

LT

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kim Flint" <kflint@annihilist.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 1:26 PM
Subject: RE: Describing looping to others


> be careful that you're not describing the style of music, rather than a
> technique used in creating it! As soon as you start talking about "sound
> paintings" and such, to me you are just describing a sort of ambient music
> where looping is used, but you're not really giving a description of
> looping. You could just as easily use looping for industrial metal or
> bluegrass or modern barber shop quartet or world techno or whatever.
>
> I usually say that looping is just a musical technique of sampling and
> manipulating audio data in real time. If they have more questions, I
> explain more about the technique, putting it into the context of whatever
> type of music they like. That works great!
>
> kim
>
> >How about the audio equivalent of an ESCHER painting?
> >Ya know, those stairs, figures that is perspectively screwed so they go
> >upstairs as
> >well as downstairs(!) and left and right at the same time as they go
round
> >in a square building and so on...tricks the eye...
> >Objects in a picture that ends nowhere, but yet, turn its back on itself!
> >
> >What about...
> >Sonic Fractals?
> >
> >...ok then... not for Joe Bob or Granny perhaps ...:-)
> >/mats
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: PJBMHB@aol.com [mailto:PJBMHB@aol.com]
> >Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 3:05 PM
> >To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> >Subject: Re: Describing looping to others
> >
> >
> >my wife describes my looping as either, "pretty" or "ugly". not sure that
> >helps. =-) PJ
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
> kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
> http://www.annihilist.com/  |
>
>
>

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In a message dated 2/25/00 8:09:48 AM Mid-Atlantic Standard Time, 
Mats.Eriksson@ecs.ericsson.se writes:

<< Is that why there arent THAT many players who indulge
 in looping? It tends to sound the same no matter who it is. >>

i dont think that i agree with this.....and thats all im going to say about 
it.........:)........michael

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At 09:12 PM 2/24/00 -0800, you wrote:

>I say we dress them both like chickens and have a cockfight!

I would pay a lot to see this.

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93

"Javier Miranda V." wrote:
> 
> OK folks, would you please indulge me and list for me a list of DT records
> that I must have.  I just realised I have no DT CDs.  Hard to get into the
> ongoing argument this way.

Polytown, Tripping Over God, What Means Soild Traveller?

93
Rev. Doubt-Goat

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The Sharp Mdms722 can be had for $150- great deal- I love my 702- anyone
know if the 722 has a lighted MAIN lcd window? It needs it- here's a link-

http://www.etown.com/categories/product_profile.jhtml?fromIDA=null&bodyinclu
de=partner&productID=409&categoryID=39&manufacturerID=109#mainbody

Cliff

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I'm interested in exploring Just Intonation and am exploring various options.

In any case, it looks like I need something capable of a tuning resolution
smaller than 1 cent.  A quick perusal of the Just Intonation scales on the
Microtonal Synthesis Page (http://home.att.net/~microtonal/) shows
practical every scale composed of note degrees that are at a precision of
as little as thousandths of a cent.

One option is just do everything on my PC.  Native Instruments
Generator/Reaktor/Transformer appears to offer floating-point precision for
scale resolution.  How about other software synths such as Reality?  Yes, I
know what Csound is :), but I want something I can play in realtime with a
MIDI controller. The main problem with this approach is that it would be
difficult to take this "instrument" out to gigs (there are people I would
like to jam with, and soon).

Another option appears to be PC software that imposes any tuning you want
on any MIDI sound source by using MIDI pitch-bend.  But again, it looks
like I'll have to bring my PC to the gig if I want to use this option.

Yet another option appears to be getting a sampler, but that's only because
I have no idea of the scale resolution such beasts are capable of.

I ask this here because several of you are interested in this stuff.

Thanks,
Paolo


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  that sure helps if your looper is a boomerang! :-)




At 11:47 AM 25/02/00 EST, you wrote:
>Since a lot of otherwise very nice people seem to sometimes think of 
>technology as, somehow, "cheating" when applied to the arts in general (and 
>music in particular) I use the following analogy when talking about looping. 
>
>Think about juggling. A juggler throws an object into the air and it returns. 
>He throws it again and it returns. He throws many objects into the space 
>above him and they all return. This "circle of motion" keeps going as long as 
>(and as well as) the skill of the juggler holds out. 
>
>Then imagine that the juggler adds some newfangled "antigravity" technology 
>to his routine that allows him to put one of these "circles of motion" in 
>place up in the air above his head and then remove his hands and still have 
>it hanging their circling as long as he wishes.
>
>Further, imagine that he is able to hang ANY number of these moving "circles" 
>of objects in midair--all sorts of objects, large, small, living or 
>inanimate, whatever--and have the circles all chain in and out of one another 
>and dance in the air above his head. What a show that would be!
>
>Certainly, there might still be a few who would scoff and say that this 
>marvel was not "real" juggling in the traditional sense. But one would be 
>hard pressed, I think, to make that judgment stick for long. Because at it's 
>base is still involved all of the original skills of juggling. The 
>"antigravity" technology is just an "amplification" of these. And, with 
>artistry and skill, technology just becomes another one of the things the 
>artist juggles. 
>
>That is what looping is "like."
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sat Feb 26 04:06:57 2000
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BeOS is becoming a more viable option for realtime audio stuff, especially
if you can code. Another very flexible and portable platform for sonic
exporation and realtime performance is a Powerbook G3 running MAX/MSP
[www.cycling74.com] or SuperCollider.

for me it is important to be able to channel this stuff down through a
process that is me, not accept the factorystamp process for making music...
maxmsp is great for this, because you first design the process and then play
it. maxmsp is a pretty thorough graphical language, and its extensible into
C++, so you should have no problem rigging up microtonal jams. kit clayton
showed me his live granular synth and the software wiring was staggeringly
thick and maxmsp was still flying.

i'll be wiring up some custom looping tools in maxmsp as soon as i get it
running. exciting.

in lake'ch
jan

-----Original Message-----
From: pvallad1@tampabay.rr.com <pvallad1@tampabay.rr.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Date: Friday, February 25, 2000 9:15 PM
Subject: [OT] Interest in JI software/hardware


>I'm interested in exploring Just Intonation and am exploring various
options.
>
>In any case, it looks like I need something capable of a tuning resolution
>smaller than 1 cent.  A quick perusal of the Just Intonation scales on the
>Microtonal Synthesis Page (http://home.att.net/~microtonal/) shows
>practical every scale composed of note degrees that are at a precision of
>as little as thousandths of a cent.
>
>One option is just do everything on my PC.  Native Instruments
>Generator/Reaktor/Transformer appears to offer floating-point precision for
>scale resolution.  How about other software synths such as Reality?  Yes, I
>know what Csound is :), but I want something I can play in realtime with a
>MIDI controller. The main problem with this approach is that it would be
>difficult to take this "instrument" out to gigs (there are people I would
>like to jam with, and soon).
>
>Another option appears to be PC software that imposes any tuning you want
>on any MIDI sound source by using MIDI pitch-bend.  But again, it looks
>like I'll have to bring my PC to the gig if I want to use this option.
>
>Yet another option appears to be getting a sampler, but that's only because
>I have no idea of the scale resolution such beasts are capable of.
>
>I ask this here because several of you are interested in this stuff.
>
>Thanks,
>Paolo
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sat Feb 26 07:01:47 2000
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In a message dated 2/25/00 11:58:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
KILLINFO@aol.com writes:

<<  technology just becomes another one of the things the 
 artist juggles.  >>
Thats IT ; what a wonderful quote. I can now explain myself to my wife 
etc....:-)

Carl Snow 
Moss Hill REC>

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From: PJBMHB@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Weird Lexicon MPX100 experience
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im love my mpx100. you can save 16 patches and 2 of my saved patches are 
exactly the ones you are describing. it also has really great sounding 
chourus and delays. best box around for the money. sounds 100% better than 
the alesis stuff i used to own. =-) PJ

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From: "David Potter" <papadave55@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: fripp vs torn
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 05:57:55 PST
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>From: Robert Switzer <rswitzer@721.com>
>Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>Subject: Re: fripp vs torn
>Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:12:28 -0500
>
>At 09:12 PM 2/24/00 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >I say we dress them both like chickens and have a cockfight!
>
>I would pay a lot to see this.
>
I think we should  dress them like cocks and have a chicken fight.
______________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sat Feb 26 11:04:14 2000
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guitarists ... oh no!! ;-)

seriously, you guys are the biggest hero worshippers out there.
i mean do you see any of us drummers chewing up bandwidth with details
of will calhouns looping gear?

get a life you guys ;-)

all in good fun,
rob

Aaron Schindler schrieb:
> 
> 
> which do you enjoy more,the ambient/soundscape/looping
> music of David Torn or Robert Fripp? And Why?
> 
> - A


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sat Feb 26 11:07:53 2000
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Reality 1.56 isn't capable of microtonal scale maps, but this feature has
been requested by quite a few people, and will probably be included in a
future release.

Using MAX/Building Blocks/Keykit to filter the MIDI note steam and apply an
appropriate amount of pitch bend is an option.

rob 

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From: Tim Nelson <tcn62@ici.net>
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At 11:35 AM 2/26/00 +0100, you wrote:
>i mean do you see any of us drummers chewing up bandwidth with details
>of will calhoun's looping gear?

I'd like to know the details of his looping gear and more about how he uses
it. I don't care what kind of sticks he uses, though...

-t

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sat Feb 26 11:53:38 2000
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From: PJBMHB@aol.com
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Subject: Re: torn vs. fripp
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i just want to know what kind of brushes uses and which hand he usually uses 
to start his paradiddles. =-) PJ

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sat Feb 26 13:26:39 2000
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From: SoundFNR@aol.com
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Subject: Re: Weird Lexicon MPX100 experience
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In a message dated 25/02/00 22:06:06 GMT Standard Time, crash@waste.org 
writes:

> funky rhythmic POPPING effect kind of like a sequencer on steroids.
>  
>  You gotta try this thing.  It would be very cool for loops and such.

which one's that???
(Hi Todd)
yes I too use and recomend the MPX100


Andy Butler
Lexicon Vortex Database 
http://members.aol.com/soundfnr/vortex.htm

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Hey!
Could you point me in the direction of this "mutantrumpet" documentation?
BTW - I've heard some of Jon Hassel's work credited an elusive instrument of
the same name...
(looping trumpet is one of my things.)
Much obliged!
eric o.

Tim Nelson wrote:

> At 11:45 PM 2/24/00 -0500, you wrote:
> >I'm still trying to decide between Ben Neill and Squarepusher myself.
> >
> >Paolo
> Speaking of Ben Neill, does anyone know what equipment he uses? His
> "mutantrumpet" is very well-documented, but he also uses a huge rack fulla
> gear, and I'd love to know what he loops with...
>
> Tim

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Does anyone know if David Torn and Terry Bozzio are still playing at the =
Kntting Factory next week?  I could of sworn that DT plugged a March 3rd =
show on this list a month ago.

Jud=20

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Does anyone know if David Torn and =
Terry Bozzio are=20
still playing at the Kntting Factory next week?&nbsp; I could of sworn =
that DT=20
plugged a March 3rd show on this list a month ago.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jud</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sat Feb 26 15:30:33 2000
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Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:29:00 -0500
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From: Tim Nelson <tcn62@ici.net>
Subject: Re: ben neill (was torn vs. fripp)
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Sure, his website is <http://www.mercurious.com/ben-neill/>

The "tech" page tells all about the controller itself, but not what's in
that great big rack to his left onstage.

When I saw him duet with drummer Jim Mussen about a year and a half ago,
there was a lot of looping going on, but I couldn't see what he was using.
I could see a couple of laptops in his rig, but I don't think it was all
pre-sequenced.

I enjoy all three of the Neill albums I've heard (Green Machine, Tryptical
and Goldbug), but have to say that the added dimension of Jim Mussen's
excellent and innovative drumming surpassed anything on the albums. I wish
he'd record with Mussen!

Tim

At 10:09 AM 2/26/00 -0800, you wrote:
>Could you point me in the direction of this "mutantrumpet" documentation?
>BTW - I've heard some of Jon Hassel's work credited an elusive instrument of
>the same name...
>(looping trumpet is one of my things.)
>Much obliged!
>eric o.

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Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 20:05:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Aaron Schindler <aaron_sorghum@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: torn vs. fripp
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Q - How many drummers does it take to change a
lightbulb?

A - Five, one to change the light bulb and four to say
how much better Neil Pert would have done it.

All in good fun! : )

Aaron

--- Cummings <r_t_cummings@compuserve.com> wrote:
> guitarists ... oh no!! ;-)
> 
> seriously, you guys are the biggest hero worshippers
> out there.
> i mean do you see any of us drummers chewing up
> bandwidth with details
> of will calhouns looping gear?
> 
> get a life you guys ;-)
> 
> all in good fun,
> rob
> 
> Aaron Schindler schrieb:
> > 
> > 
> > which do you enjoy more,the
> ambient/soundscape/looping
> > music of David Torn or Robert Fripp? And Why?
> > 
> > - A
> 
> 
> 
__________________________________________________
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From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sun Feb 27 00:01:20 2000
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Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 22:55:47 -0600 (CST)
From: Dave Onnen <skyeklad@skyeklad.com>
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I agree that the MPX-100 is a great little box. I wish I had several of
them. I like the fact that you can synch delay times to MIDI clocks. I was
also wondering which specific presets you are referring to.

thanks

-------------------
im love my mpx100. you can save 16 patches and 2 of my saved patches are
exactly the ones you are describing. it also has really great sounding
chourus and delays. best box around for the money. sounds 100% better than
the alesis stuff i used to own. =-) PJ         
-------------------

___________________________________________________________
Dave Onnen
skyeklad@skyeklad.com
http://www.skyeklad.com/
http://www.skyeklad.com/ousia/
___________________________________________________________


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Subject: Looped Trumpet (was Re: torn vs. fripp)
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eric wrote:
> 
> Hey!
> Could you point me in the direction of this "mutantrumpet" documentation?

I don't know of any documentation. Ben Neill
has a trumpet that has more than one bell,
more like a couple of trumpets in one with some kind of 
midi control.


> BTW - I've heard some of Jon Hassel's work credited an elusive instrument of
> the same name...

While he runs it through a bunch of effects,
Jon Hassell does it all with his lip and his ear.


> (looping trumpet is one of my things.)
> Much obliged!
> eric o.
> 

A looped horn is a beautiful thing. Check out Chet Baker
on the new archive release by Terry Riley, Music for the Gift,
(organ of corti 1). It seems like looped trumpet started here!

There's also some looped sax on some old Terry Riley 
recordings, I think. I need a new needle for
my turn table.


-- 
* D a v i d         B e a r d s l e y
*           xouoxno@virtulink.com
*
* 49/32  R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* M E L A  v i r t u a l  d r e a m house monitor
*
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm

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pvallad1@tampabay.rr.com wrote:
> 
> I'm interested in exploring Just Intonation and am exploring various options.

There's an tuning email list at onelist.com. Also a 
New Just Intonation list. Get David Doty's Just Intonation
Primer: http://www.dnai.com/~jinetwk/


-- 
* D a v i d         B e a r d s l e y
*           xouoxno@virtulink.com
*
* 49/32  R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* M E L A  v i r t u a l  d r e a m house monitor
*
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm

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At 01:19 AM 2/27/00 -0500, you wrote:
>pvallad1@tampabay.rr.com wrote:
>> 
>> I'm interested in exploring Just Intonation and am exploring various
options.
>
>There's an tuning email list at onelist.com. Also a 
>New Just Intonation list. Get David Doty's Just Intonation
>Primer: http://www.dnai.com/~jinetwk/

This was one of the sites I looked at but could not find the information I
seek - and that is any information which can help answer this question:

What are my hardware and software options?

Yes, there is plenty of information on this site and the other sites linked
to it - but none of it organized in a concise way to answer my question
(like a FAQ).

At the rate this is going, it looks like I do have to invest in another
computer (a laptop) if I want a gig-friendly solution.  Not really what I
was hoping to see, but I guess that's life.

Thanks,
Paolo

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From: PJBMHB@aol.com
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the patches i saved are the looping patch which has about 5 or 6 seconds of 
looping. i think it is the inf. repeat. the other patch is a rhythmic pan 
that i believe is 8th notes. i have a tap pedal so i can get in or out of 
time with whatever i am doing. if i mix it in very lightly it can sound very 
atmospheric. gives a little ghostly movement to loops or whatever else i use 
it with. sorry i can't be more specific but i tend to not really be a  "read 
the manual type." i listen and and tweak and then save as a preset. =-) PJ

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From: "Bill Fox" <billfox@fast.net>
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Subject: EMUSIC Playlist
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                                            Playlist for EMUSIC

EMUSIC, an electronic, ambient, and space music show, airs each Thursday
at 11:04 pm on WDIY 88.1 FM, Allentown and Bethlehem, PA and 93.9 FM in
Easton, PA and Phillipsburg, NJ.

                            Show #153            February 24, 2000.

On this show, I continued the month-long focus on American synthesist
Michael
Garrison.  Tonight's Feature CD at Midnight was Brave New Worlds on the
Windspell label.  The music of Vir Unis and Saul Stokes was played to
promote
their upcoming performances at the next Gathering.

        Gathering #23:    http://www.starsend.org/23gather.html


ARTIST                  TRACK                    ALBUM (label)
======================= ========================
==============================
11:04 pm
Stratosphere            Arriving at the Boundaries  Life Reviewed (Spheric
Recordings)
Saul Stokes             First Jump               Zo Pilots (Hypnos)
Chris Snidow            Number Our Days          Number Our Days (none)
Syndromeda              Missa Gaia Electronica   The Legacy of GOD (Groove)
Under the Dome          Flussiger Vier-Takter    The Demon Haunted World
(Neu Harmony)
Pseudo Buddha           Solo                     Motive (Uncle Buzz Records)
Ma Ja Le & Vir Unis     Passionate Lava          Imaginarium (Mirage)

12:00 am
Michael Garrison        Vertical Circles         Brave New Worlds (Windspell
Music)
Michael Garrison        Call Me Down             Brave New Worlds (Windspell
Music)
Michael Garrison        Rings of Pegasus         Brave New Worlds (Windspell
Music)
Michael Garrison        Renegade Moon            Brave New Worlds (Windspell
Music)
Michael Garrison        Journey of Thoughts      Brave New Worlds (Windspell
Music)
Michael Garrison        Into the Distance        Brave New Worlds (Windspell
Music)
Michael Garrison        Visions                  Brave New Worlds (Windspell
Music)

1:00 am

 * = exerpt
VA = Various Artists (compilation)

On the next EMUSIC, I'll begin a month-long focus on the seventh annual Alfa
Centauri
Electronic Music Festival in Huizen, The Netherlands.  The feature CD at
midnight will
be "Species" by Wave World on the Quantum label.

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hey all -

i'm very happy to see that pseudo buddha (featuring 3 l.d. listgeeks)
got played on bill fox's emusic. hooray hooray...

bobdog

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Subject: mutant trumpet 
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At 10:09 a.m. 26/02/00 -0800, you wrote:

http://www.mercurious.com/ben-neill/

try this, it's an old url, but maybe ...


>Could you point me in the direction of this "mutantrumpet" documentation?


//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
	D   o   c   t   o   r           S   a   x            N   e   w   s
                  		     New CD-R Release !
	Price: 3 EUROS (including packing & postage)
        	      or trading for a cd / tape of your music. 
          http://www.dragonet.es/users/d3055/Doctor_Sax_News/
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
	Raül Bonell Tomàs    <rauboto@dragonet.es> 
	http://www.dragonet.es/users/d3055/slollnoirc
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

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ouch.

Aaron Schindler schrieb:
> 
> 
> Q - How many drummers does it take to change a
> lightbulb?
> 
> A - Five, one to change the light bulb and four to say
> how much better Neil Pert would have done it.
> 
> All in good fun! : )
> 
> Aaron

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>Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:35:07 +0100
>From: Cummings <r_t_cummings@compuserve.com>
>To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>Subject: Re: torn vs. fripp

>
>guitarists ... oh no!! ;-)
>
>seriously, you guys are the biggest hero worshippers out there.
>i mean do you see any of us drummers chewing up bandwidth with details
>of will calhouns looping gear?
>
>get a life you guys ;-)
>
>all in good fun,
>rob
>




Which reminds me.... I was just about to ask...


Did anyone get to see what Will Calhoun uses and how well it works?

I couldn't see the show at the KF.

Truly,

C Bard




                                 Christine Bard
                                0~>~<>~><~<>~<~0

             I replaced the headlights in my car with strobe lights.
                   Now it looks like I'm the only one moving. 
                                -Steven Wright




           

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sun Feb 27 17:06:09 2000
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Thanks Raül, David, Tim.
This URL does not appear to work for me.
There is, however, something I like about not being able to really track this thing down...
Sort of like a rare sightings of a mythical beast,
everone with a different story:  i saw it once! it had *three* heads!!
Cheers,
eric

Raül Bonell Tomàs wrote:

> At 10:09 a.m. 26/02/00 -0800, you wrote:
>
> http://www.mercurious.com/ben-neill/
>
> try this, it's an old url, but maybe ...
>
> >Could you point me in the direction of this "mutantrumpet" documentation?
>
> //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>         D   o   c   t   o   r           S   a   x            N   e   w   s
>                                      New CD-R Release !
>         Price: 3 EUROS (including packing & postage)
>                       or trading for a cd / tape of your music.
>           http://www.dragonet.es/users/d3055/Doctor_Sax_News/
> /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>         Raül Bonell Tomàs    <rauboto@dragonet.es>
>         http://www.dragonet.es/users/d3055/slollnoirc
> /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

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In a message dated 2/27/00 3:25:25 PM Mid-Atlantic Standard Time, 
psbuddha@texas.net writes:

<< hooray hooray... >>

indeed, indeed..................michael

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eric wrote:
> 
> Thanks Raül, David, Tim.
> This URL does not appear to work for me.

You probablly need the Shockwave plugin.
Here's what it says on the site:

> mutantrumpet
> 
> The mutantrumpet is a hybrid electro-acoustic instrument
> with three bells, two sets of valves, and a trombone slide.
> The sound is converted via a pickup in the mouthpiece to
> MIDI information by a pitch to MIDI converter. There
> are momentary switches located next to the valves on the
> body of the instrument, as well as four continuous MIDI
> controllers in the form of pressure sensing pads and
> potentiometers. The acoustic volume of the mutantrumpet
> is often used as another MIDI controller. The
> mutantrumpet's computer interface enables Neill to trigger
> and manipulate sequences, grab samples and manipulate
> them in real time, and control lighting, slide and video
> projection. 

There you go!

-- 
* D a v i d         B e a r d s l e y
*           xouoxno@virtulink.com
*
* 49/32  R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* M E L A  v i r t u a l  d r e a m house monitor
*
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sun Feb 27 21:10:55 2000
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pvallad1@tampabay.rr.com wrote:
> 
> At 01:19 AM 2/27/00 -0500, you wrote:
> >pvallad1@tampabay.rr.com wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm interested in exploring Just Intonation and am exploring various
> options.
> >
> >There's an tuning email list at onelist.com. Also a
> >New Just Intonation list. Get David Doty's Just Intonation
> >Primer: http://www.dnai.com/~jinetwk/
> 
> This was one of the sites I looked at but could not find the information I
> seek - and that is any information which can help answer this question:
> 
> What are my hardware and software options?
> 
> Yes, there is plenty of information on this site and the other sites linked
> to it - but none of it organized in a concise way to answer my question
> (like a FAQ).

Consult the Tuning list man! I know there's a 
a  page about resolution and synths somewhere,
but you have to be more exact about what you
want to do...


> 
> At the rate this is going, it looks like I do have to invest in another
> computer (a laptop) if I want a gig-friendly solution.  Not really what I
> was hoping to see, but I guess that's life.

a fretless guitar or a midi guitar & synth or a refretted
guitar or Csound seems to be your best option. I want 
a fretless guitar next.

-- 
* D a v i d         B e a r d s l e y
*           xouoxno@virtulink.com
*
* 49/32  R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* M E L A  v i r t u a l  d r e a m house monitor
*
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Sun Feb 27 22:12:40 2000
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Subject: Re: EMUSIC Playlist
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whats that pseuo budda??? i'm new in this whole web thing thing , or
e-mailing list. i'm a "looper" so to speak but what you guys are talking
about is really got me scratching my noggin...no disrespecting i'm really
glad i did whatever it is i did to get you guys e-mailing me all these tips
and stupp and the whole torn vs fripp thing, well thats a whole different
story. what pseuba are you talking about though??
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bobdog/Doghouse Audio Laboratory" <psbuddha@texas.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2000 5:54 AM
Subject: Re: EMUSIC Playlist


> hey all -
>
> i'm very happy to see that pseudo buddha (featuring 3 l.d. listgeeks)
> got played on bill fox's emusic. hooray hooray...
>
> bobdog
>

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From: "Larry Tremblay" <ltct@concentric.net>
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Subject: Re: Looped Trumpet (was Re: torn vs. fripp)
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 22:23:08 -0500
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I've always liked Mark Isham's trumpet work, especially
his early atmospheric stuff. Jon Hassell is the king,
though.

- Larry T
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Beardsley" <xouoxno@virtulink.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2000 1:04 AM
Subject: Looped Trumpet (was Re: torn vs. fripp)


> eric wrote:
> >
> > Hey!
> > Could you point me in the direction of this "mutantrumpet"
documentation?
>
> I don't know of any documentation. Ben Neill
> has a trumpet that has more than one bell,
> more like a couple of trumpets in one with some kind of
> midi control.
>
>
> > BTW - I've heard some of Jon Hassel's work credited an elusive
instrument of
> > the same name...
>
> While he runs it through a bunch of effects,
> Jon Hassell does it all with his lip and his ear.
>
>
> > (looping trumpet is one of my things.)
> > Much obliged!
> > eric o.
> >
>
> A looped horn is a beautiful thing. Check out Chet Baker
> on the new archive release by Terry Riley, Music for the Gift,
> (organ of corti 1). It seems like looped trumpet started here!
>
> There's also some looped sax on some old Terry Riley
> recordings, I think. I need a new needle for
> my turn table.
>
>
> --
> * D a v i d         B e a r d s l e y
> *           xouoxno@virtulink.com
> *
> * 49/32  R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
> * M E L A  v i r t u a l  d r e a m house monitor
> *
> * http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 28 00:21:03 2000
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>Consult the Tuning list man! I know there's a 
>a  page about resolution and synths somewhere,
>but you have to be more exact about what you
>want to do...

Thanks for directing me to the Tuning list.  I will post my questions there.

Let me try to articulate what i want to do here... I am a former Stick
owner (sold all my musical instruments in CA before the big move to FL) who
wants to get a Ztar and use that to control synths/samplers.  Maybe I'll
get a Stick again too, but right now I'm more interested in synthesis.
While I'm at it, I want to explore the harmonic possibilities of JI.

If I just wanted to stay at home and never play out, a software synth would
be perfect for me.   However, I do want to play out (and I really do mean
PLAY as in play "realtime", not run some non-interactive program or play a
tape). and I have new friends who are encouraging me to work towards that
goal.  There is no way I'm going to lug my PC, 17-inch monitor, keyboard,
etc. to bars and coffee shops to play music.  

I was hoping somebody would tell me that samplers exist that would allow me
to set up tunings with scale resolutions small enough to handle JI.  Then I
could just get that sampler instead of getting another computer.  

Well, my disappointment in the fact that all responses to this thread
indicate the need for computer to be included in my hypothetical live rig
and no way around it has been allayed somewhat by my finding out that new
Apple I-books are actually not that expensive.

>a fretless guitar or a midi guitar & synth or a refretted
>guitar or Csound seems to be your best option. I want 
>a fretless guitar next.

I appreciate the time you've taken to respond to my inquiries.  However,
Csound is not realtime and I am not really a guitar player.  I am more of a
tapping type of player (piano, Stick, Ztar, etc.).  Also, I am interested
in exploring _harmony_ in JI, not so much melody.  Fretless guitar is not
the optimal solution here (it took Adrian Belew two years of practice to
play chords in tune - so he says).

Thanks,
Paolo

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 28 01:30:02 2000
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From: Hawkeye255@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 01:25:49 EST
Subject: Re: [OT] Interest in JI software/hardware
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Paolo,
    Perhaps it's been mentioned, (if so, I missed it), but many keyboards 
built in the last ten years or so are capable of just intonation tunings 
along with alot of midi control functions.  My venerable 'old' Korg T3 
certainly is.  And most of the time, that's the tunings I use.

    hawkeye

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How many loopers does it take to put in a lightbulb?

None, we're still waiting for the new EDP.

Colin|niloC
-----Original Message----


>ouch.
>
>Aaron Schindler schrieb:
>> 
>> 
>> Q - How many drummers does it take to change a
>> lightbulb?
>> 
>> A - Five, one to change the light bulb and four to say
>> how much better Neil Pert would have done it.
>> 
>> All in good fun! : )
>> 
>> Aaron
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 28 06:56:08 2000
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There was a on page interview with Ben Neill in WIRED, 5.04 - Apr 1997 
which is still online at:
<http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/5.04/ff_trumpeter_pr.html>

I've clipped-in the 1st coupla para's below. 

I'd say that Jon Hassell and Mark Isham are my favourutes in this field
not forgeting Nils Petter Molvaer and Graham Haynes. I thoroughly
enjoyed 
Triptycal, but thought Glitterbug sounded a bit tired (and unemotional)
- 
dull set of beats etc. Also saw him live, manipulating all his gear in
real time etc
but the venue's acoustics didn't help and he was drowned by a
combination
of Page Hamilton's guitar and the drummer. Not too much subtly there,
I'm afraid...

Cheers

David
<http://www.mp3.com/davidcooperorton>
================================================================================
The Mutant Trumpeter 
By Colin Berry 

Ben Neill is using a schizophrenic trumpet to create art music for the
people. 


A regular face in New York's experimental music scene, trumpeter Ben
Neill has worked with sound sculptors of the past and future, including
John Cage, Robert Moog, DJ Spooky, and minimalist La Monte Young. As
music curator of The Kitchen performance space, Neill has also brought
international luminaries such as Jaron Lanier, Jorge Reyes, and FSOL to
the Big Apple. But Neill is foremost a musician, and his
recent Triptycal CD topped many critics' polls with its smooth blend of
trippy ambience and groovy jazz - a '90s update of Miles Davis cool.
After launching his solo career, classically trained Neill designed the
mutantrumpet, an instrument that looks like the spawn of another musical
world.

Wired: So what is a mutantrumpet? 

Neill: 

It's an electro-acoustic instrument I developed that has two sets of
valves and three bells, one of which is attached to a trombone slide for
a glissando effect. 
It also has an interface to a computer program that uses the notes of
the trumpet to trigger different sounds and sequences, and allows me to
modify the sounds using controllers. I use different mutes in the bells
to shift between open and muted sounds to provide a middle ground
between electronic and acoustic music. The instrument enables me to play
in between all these different sounds. 

And you do all this in real time? 

Some elements of the music are preprogrammed, but I'm always
manipulating a few elements live.
Different notes trigger musical sequences I can manipulate as they're
playing. The instrument is also tied in to a MIDI-controlled
slide-projection system so that triggering a sound sequence also
controls the playing of the projectors.

What inspired you to create this thing? 

I wanted an instrument that gave me the capability to project multiple
voices. I got started by sticking trumpet parts together and then worked
with some instrument builders to come up with a custom-fabricated
design. It's schizophrenic, but adding an electronic component expands a
conventional wind instrument into a more multifaceted thing.

What role can technology play in traditionally nontechnological
instruments? 

With my system, I was trying to use the computer as a kind of mediator.
It adds a level of imperfection.
When I'm activating sounds from the trumpet, or controlling elements set
off by my playing dynamic, there's a random element involved. It's
different every time. That's something I get from art music: the idea
that you don't just hear a melody in your head and say, OK, this is what
I want. Rather, you set something in motion, and you can't foresee all
the details. Taking computer music beyond the realm of a strictly
quantized beat is what makes it swing.

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pvallad1@tampabay.rr.com wrote:

> Let me try to articulate what i want to do here... I am a former Stick
> owner (sold all my musical instruments in CA before the big move to FL) who

Sounds insane! One could always fret a stick in ji.

 
> If I just wanted to stay at home and never play out, a software synth would
> be perfect for me.   However, I do want to play out (and I really do mean
> PLAY as in play "realtime", not run some non-interactive program or play a
> tape). and I have new friends who are encouraging me to work towards that
> goal.  There is no way I'm going to lug my PC, 17-inch monitor, keyboard,
> etc. to bars and coffee shops to play music.

Last Saturday I heard a friend play an entire show on a laptop.
I think he uses MAX. But he's not into tunings.



> I was hoping somebody would tell me that samplers exist that would allow me
> to set up tunings with scale resolutions small enough to handle JI.  Then I
> could just get that sampler instead of getting another computer.

One could always sample tuned instruments. It IS a sampler.


> 
> Well, my disappointment in the fact that all responses to this thread
> indicate the need for computer to be included in my hypothetical live rig

No you don't. It's just a possibility.



> >a fretless guitar or a midi guitar & synth or a refretted
> >guitar or Csound seems to be your best option. I want
> >a fretless guitar next.
> 
> I appreciate the time you've taken to respond to my inquiries.  However,
> Csound is not realtime and I am not really a guitar player.  I am more of a
> tapping type of player (piano, Stick, Ztar, etc.).  Also, I am interested
> in exploring _harmony_ in JI, not so much melody.  Fretless guitar is not
> the optimal solution here (it took Adrian Belew two years of practice to
> play chords in tune - so he says).

It's all in the ear. So it took Belew 2 years to tune up
his hearing. Big deal. You act like becoming a better musican
is an undesirable thing! Maybe your approach could be a bit less
negative?



-- 
* D a v i d         B e a r d s l e y
*           xouoxno@virtulink.com
*
* 49/32  R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* M E L A  v i r t u a l  d r e a m house monitor
*
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 28 12:05:56 2000
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References: <OF1CA701B1.A5EB1A5F-ON80256887.003AF950@aldiscon.ie>
Subject: EDP Upgrade wish list
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:00:45 -0500
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Kim, I have been meaning to send this off for some time to add to the
already large EDP wish list.

1) Double the loop time with expanded memory ( ie 16Meg to 32 Megs) as well
as to allow for UNDO at the 2 or 3 minute mark.

2) Better clock/runtime display so users know where they are within a long
loop.

3) Ability to shorten a loop with start AND end footpedal triggers.



From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 28 12:14:51 2000
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Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 02:07:57 +0900
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, emf@emf.org, user-forum@waldorf-gmbh.de,
        info-kyma@SymbolicSound.com, analogue@hyperreal.org
From: Sunao Inami <cave@pop1.osk.3web.ne.jp>
Subject: Details : Live gig info again
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Hello,

It details of my live info in March 2000 :


12th-15th GMEM Marseille,FRANCE
"ACTE KOBE 2000"

17th-18th Dampfzentrale Bern,SWITZERLAND
"ACTE KOBE 2000"

22th Bayside Jenny, Osaka,JAPAN
"TIME CONTROL"
contact:
http://www.subrosa.net

More Info Contact :

GMEM (Group Music Electroacoustic Marseille)

Tel: 04-96-20-60-10 Fax: 04-96-20-60-19
Centre National de Creation Musicale 15-17
rue de Cassis 13008 Marseille FRANCE
http://www.gmem.org
gmem@gmem.org


Dampfzentrale - Kulturnhallen Am Aarelauf

Tel: 031-311-6337 Fax: 031-312-5105
Marzilistr 47, CH-3005,Bern,SWITZERLAND


Bayside Jenny
Tel: 06-6576-5640 Osaka,JAPAN

  Keep in touch

 Sunao Inami
http://www.cavestudio.com

--============_-1260364815==_ma============
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"

Hello,


It details of my live info in March 2000 :



12th-15th GMEM Marseille,FRANCE 

<fontfamily><param>Geneva</param>"ACTE KOBE 2000"


</fontfamily>17th-18th Dampfzentrale
Bern,S<fontfamily><param>Geneva</param>WITZERLAND

"ACTE KOBE 2000"


22th Bayside Jenny, Osaka,JAPAN

"TIME CONTROL"

contact:

http://www.subr</fontfamily>osa.net


More Info Contact : 


GMEM (Group Music
Electroacousti<fontfamily><param>Geneva</param>c</fontfamily>
Marseille)


Tel: 04-96-20-60-10 Fax:
04-9<fontfamily><param>Geneva</param>6</fontfamily>-20-60-19 

Centre National de Creation Musicale 15-17

rue de Cassis 13008 Marsei<fontfamily><param>Geneva</param>lle
FRANC</fontfamily>E 

http://<fontfamily><param>Geneva</param>www.</fontfamily>gmem.org

gmem@gmem.org



Dampfzentrale - Kulturnhallen
<fontfamily><param>Geneva</param>A</fontfamily>m Aarelauf 


Tel: 031-311-6337 Fax: 031-312-5105 

Marzilistr 47,
CH-3005,Bern,S<fontfamily><param>Geneva</param>WITZERLAND 



Ba</fontfamily>ysid<fontfamily><param>Geneva</param>e Jenny

Tel: 06-657</fontfamily>6-5640
<fontfamily><param>Geneva</param>Osaka,</fontfamily>JAPAN


  Keep in touch


 <fontfamily><param>Geneva</param>Sunao Ina</fontfamily>mi

http://www.ca<fontfamily><param>Geneva</param>vest</fontfamily>udio.com

 

--============_-1260364815==_ma============--

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 28 13:11:31 2000
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From: Jmash789@cs.com
Message-ID: <ba.225f8be.25ec0fbc@cs.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:51:56 EST
Subject: On-line Manuals
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Hi all, 
      I'm pretty sure  I've seen a webpage filled with links to on-line 
manuals for various effects processors and audio gear, but now I can't find 
it. If anybody has any idea what I'm talking about please email me with the 
url ASAP. for a research paper. thanks, 
J Mash

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 28 13:18:35 2000
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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:00:28 -0800
Subject: Re: torn vs. fripp
From: Andrew Pask <andrew@kaleidacousticon.com>
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How many loopers does it take to change a light bulb?

None any more because the last one keeps changing again.. and again....
and again.....

> From: "Jean or Colin Jenkinson" <jeancolin@earthlink.net>
> Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 01:18:24 -0800
> To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
> Subject: Re: torn vs. fripp
> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 04:59:09 -0500
> 
> How many loopers does it take to put in a lightbulb?
> 
> None, we're still waiting for the new EDP.
> 
> Colin|niloC
> -----Original Message----
> 
> 
>> ouch.
>> 
>> Aaron Schindler schrieb:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Q - How many drummers does it take to change a
>>> lightbulb?
>>> 
>>> A - Five, one to change the light bulb and four to say
>>> how much better Neil Pert would have done it.
>>> 
>>> All in good fun! : )
>>> 
>>> Aaron
>> 
>> 
> 

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 28 13:41:23 2000
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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:25:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Joseph Buck <josephbuck@yahoo.com>
Subject: Announce Toru Takemitsu List (Loop Unrelated)
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Hi All-

A new list is being set up dedicated to the work of
Japanese composer Toru Takemitsu.

Please email Naoyuki Ashida at: nao@y7.com for more
information.

Take care,

Buck
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 28 13:35:09 2000
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From: "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@earthlight.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
References: <20000227040515.25390.qmail@web3404.mail.yahoo.com> <38B97B59.E4AA6C5D@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: torn vs. fripp
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 10:02:58 -0800
Organization: EarthLight Productions
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This whole thread is reminiscent of reactions I've seen to Fripp's live work
in the past, both solo and with King Crimson; basically, you've got your
Fripp adherents who love all or most things Frippian - and then there are
the guys who go for more out-front "flash", if you will, and go on and on
and on enough that you know they'd rather Fripp played like Satriani or Vai.
Or insert your own guitar god in the space provided...  I knew someone who,
in the mid-80s, went to one of Fripp's lectures, and actually returned from
it pissed off because he didn't play any guitar, or talk about King Crimson.
I reminded him that it was a lecture about Surviving The Music Business, but
it did no good, of course.  I'd have rather been there, frankly.

End rule?  To Each His/Her Own.

Myself?  Never heard of Torn until this list.  Still haven't heard any of
his work.  While closing on my mid-40s and emerging from a recession of a
personal financial nature, I've not had too much time to hang around a
store, or buying CDs, such that the only ones I get are gifts.  On one level
I know it's because I'm less-than-prosperous (money wise), but on another, I
know it's also because I'm still working on MY material, and would rather
not have the kind of input that can lead to subdermal influence on my
composing.  The only real exceptions I can afford to make are going to shows
that are put on by friends or performers I like.  Does it matter?  Is my
life any less than it could be because of not hearing others' work?  I'll
let you know when I'm finished.  Well, before I'm finished, in case Thomas
Edison's "Ether Scope" doesn't work after all... [wink]

Stephen Goodman      * The Loop of the Week (closing on #500, nearly 5 years
old!)
EarthLight Productions * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios.html

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 28 14:18:47 2000
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From: "Dennis W. Leas" <dennis@mdbs.com>
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Subject: Re: torn vs. fripp
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How many light bulb jokes do loopers tell?

Just one...and it keeps going around...and around...and around...

Dennis Leas
-----------------------------
dennis@mdbs.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Pask <andrew@kaleidacousticon.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Date: Monday, February 28, 2000 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: torn vs. fripp


>How many loopers does it take to change a light bulb?
>
>None any more because the last one keeps changing again.. and again....
>and again.....
>
>> From: "Jean or Colin Jenkinson" <jeancolin@earthlink.net>
>> Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 01:18:24 -0800
>> To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
>> Subject: Re: torn vs. fripp
>> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>> Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 04:59:09 -0500
>> 
>> How many loopers does it take to put in a lightbulb?
>> 
>> None, we're still waiting for the new EDP.
>> 
>> Colin|niloC
>> -----Original Message----
>> 
>> 
>>> ouch.
>>> 
>>> Aaron Schindler schrieb:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Q - How many drummers does it take to change a
>>>> lightbulb?
>>>> 
>>>> A - Five, one to change the light bulb and four to say
>>>> how much better Neil Pert would have done it.
>>>> 
>>>> All in good fun! : )
>>>> 
>>>> Aaron
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 28 22:24:35 2000
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Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 22:20:14 -0500
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From: Tim Nelson <tcn62@ici.net>
Subject: Re: mutantrumpetlooping etc
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Thanks David! I'd read that interview somewhere a while ago, but was never
able to find it again!

Perhaps it's fitting, seeing as how this thread evolved out of the Fripp v.
Torn one, but it seems a few of the comments re mutantrumpetlooping have
visited that same neighborhood of hierarchy and competetive rank that have
led us to dress two grown guitarists, quite against their wishes, in
chicken suits for a musical cockfight. I'm thinking mostly of the posting a
couple of days ago that spoke of Jon Hassell's ability to shape and control
his sound with advanced technique and lip control while dismissing Ben
Neill's playing as done with a bunch of effects.

Don't get me wrong; I absolutely love Hassell's playing. His work in the
early 80's forced me to reconsider my opinion of the trumpet, and led me
indirectly to appreciate Miles Davis. Hassell's incorporation of classical
Indian vocal technique into his playing was brilliant, and he has continued
to be an innovator. But Hassell and Neill do very different things, and to
compare them as trumpeters/loopers/musicians is really a matter of apples
and oranges.

What appeals to me about Neill's playing is his ability to simultaneously
control several instrumental voices in real time, many of which don't even
sound remotely trumpetlike. (Live, I was probably most impressed with the
looping bass tones that were rumbling out of his rig...) We've covered this
ground before in guitar synth threads and discussions of "effects as a
crutch"; when playing an amplified instrument through "effects" and looping
devices, how much, if not all, of the circuitry can be considered part of
the instrument? While Hassell is without question a master of a
conventional instrument, albeit with very unconventional and original
technique, Neill uses a trumpet (highly modified at that) as an element of
a larger system. It's his controller of choice, but I consider him more of
a synthesist than a trumpeter, and view the way he uses the total system as
an instrument to be a more personal and unique statement of musicianship
than if he were handed a regular trumpet and asked to "compete" in terms of
conventional repertoire and chops.

If we had to rank, for example, Wynton Marsalis, Miles Davis, Jon Hassell
and Ben Neill strictly in terms of technical ability (and I'm glad we
don't), Marsalis would probably "win" hands down, at least by conventional
standards. But of these four players, I enjoy his music the least, mostly
because what I enjoy about the other three is their individuality and the
uniquely creative approaches they bring to the instrument they share.

Tim

ps: if anyone wants to hear Neill for themselves, I agree with David that
Triptycal is probably his best work. 

 At 11:36 AM 2/28/00 +0000, you wrote:
>There was a on page interview with Ben Neill in WIRED, 5.04 - Apr 1997 
>which is still online at:
><http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/5.04/ff_trumpeter_pr.html>

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At 12:48 AM 2/26/00 -0800, you wrote:
>BeOS is becoming a more viable option for realtime audio stuff, especially
>if you can code. Another very flexible and portable platform for sonic
>exporation and realtime performance is a Powerbook G3 running MAX/MSP
>[www.cycling74.com] or SuperCollider.
>
>for me it is important to be able to channel this stuff down through a
>process that is me, not accept the factorystamp process for making music...
>maxmsp is great for this, because you first design the process and then play
>it. maxmsp is a pretty thorough graphical language, and its extensible into
>C++, so you should have no problem rigging up microtonal jams. kit clayton
>showed me his live granular synth and the software wiring was staggeringly
>thick and maxmsp was still flying.
>
>i'll be wiring up some custom looping tools in maxmsp as soon as i get it
>running. exciting.
>
>in lake'ch
>jan

Jan,

How do you "play" your laptop?  If you are triggering it with a MIDI
controller, how is the response?  Is the OS-imposed latency significant or
not noticeable at all if using the MIDI controller?

Thanks,
Paolo

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 28 23:00:37 2000
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Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 04:10:23 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: [OT] Interest in JI software/hardware
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At 01:25 AM 2/28/00 EST, you wrote:
>Paolo,
>    Perhaps it's been mentioned, (if so, I missed it), but many keyboards 
>built in the last ten years or so are capable of just intonation tunings 
>along with alot of midi control functions.  My venerable 'old' Korg T3 
>certainly is.  And most of the time, that's the tunings I use.
>
>    hawkeye

Yes, John Lofflink's site at http://home.att.net/~microtonal/ lists a bunch
of keyboards that offer microtuning.  However, most of them have a scale
resolution of 1 cent at the smallest.  

According to his site, a 12-tone just intoned scale is made up of cent
intervals that use up to 4 decimal places of precision - far more fine than
1 cent.

I just ran across his post that says that exact precision is not
necessarily a big deal, however.  I will have to read it in greater detail.

Thanks,
Paolo

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Mon Feb 28 23:32:41 2000
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Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 04:26:33 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: [OT] Interest in JI software/hardware
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At 09:05 AM 2/28/00 -0500, you wrote:
>pvallad1@tampabay.rr.com wrote:
>
>> Let me try to articulate what i want to do here... I am a former Stick
>> owner (sold all my musical instruments in CA before the big move to FL) who
>
>Sounds insane! One could always fret a stick in ji.

What is insane to you?  Me moving from CA to FL?  Or that I sold all my
instruments?  Or that I am a former Stick player looking to get back into it?

If I get another Stick, yes I could have it fretted in JI (probably at
considerable expense as I am not a luthier nor do I have the time to learn
such an art), but then I would not be able to play with friends who use
12-ET.  That Stick would only be good for music written for that specific
temperament.  I'd have to get ANOTHER Stick just for playing with 12-ET
musicians.  Not an economically viable solution for me! :)


>> If I just wanted to stay at home and never play out, a software synth would
>> be perfect for me.   However, I do want to play out (and I really do mean
>> PLAY as in play "realtime", not run some non-interactive program or play a
>> tape). and I have new friends who are encouraging me to work towards that
>> goal.  There is no way I'm going to lug my PC, 17-inch monitor, keyboard,
>> etc. to bars and coffee shops to play music.
>
>Last Saturday I heard a friend play an entire show on a laptop.
>I think he uses MAX. But he's not into tunings.

Yes, a laptop is a viable solution because everything folds into a nice,
neat flat unit - no bulky 17 inch monitors and such!

And yes, I too have seen guys play entire shows with just laptops.  But
none of them were controlling them from external MIDI controllers - all
played their laptops directly via the touchpad.  I would like to know just
how significant is the latency imposed by the OS.

>> I was hoping somebody would tell me that samplers exist that would allow me
>> to set up tunings with scale resolutions small enough to handle JI.  Then I
>> could just get that sampler instead of getting another computer.
>
>One could always sample tuned instruments. It IS a sampler.

But Mr Lofflink indicates in his post that the scale resolutions on
samplers are also inadequate.

>> Well, my disappointment in the fact that all responses to this thread
>> indicate the need for computer to be included in my hypothetical live rig
>
>No you don't. It's just a possibility.

That is true.  But I cannot afford to buy a harem of Sticks, each for a
specific tuning.  I am looking for an economically feasible solution here. :)

>> >a fretless guitar or a midi guitar & synth or a refretted
>> >guitar or Csound seems to be your best option. I want
>> >a fretless guitar next.
>> 
>> I appreciate the time you've taken to respond to my inquiries.  However,
>> Csound is not realtime and I am not really a guitar player.  I am more of a
>> tapping type of player (piano, Stick, Ztar, etc.).  Also, I am interested
>> in exploring _harmony_ in JI, not so much melody.  Fretless guitar is not
>> the optimal solution here (it took Adrian Belew two years of practice to
>> play chords in tune - so he says).
>
>It's all in the ear. So it took Belew 2 years to tune up
>his hearing. Big deal. You act like becoming a better musican
>is an undesirable thing! Maybe your approach could be a bit less
>negative?

What I am getting at is the fretless guitar solution is not a viable one
for me. I am not a guitar player, period.

I am sorry you think I am being negative.  Whatever solution that I come up
with, with or without your help, is going to cost me some hard-earned money
- I have every right to investigate the pros and cons of each approach -
unless you are willing to pay for it yourself. :)

Thanks,
Paolo

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 29 00:36:09 2000
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From: Jax1723@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 00:31:06 EST
Subject: dl4 for $1000?!!?!?
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
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Saw these dl4's on ebay... one is going for $700; the other $1000.
This is a typo or a screen error or a sick joke... right??

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=271631063
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=271652183

confused
jack
ps. I stopped my bidding when they reached $650 ;-)

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 29 01:19:28 2000
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From: "Jan P" <jan@gomotech.com>
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Subject: Re: [OT] Interest in JI software/hardware
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 21:48:45 -0800
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Hi Paolo-

>How do you "play" your laptop?  If you are triggering it with a MIDI
>controller, how is the response?  Is the OS-imposed latency significant or
>not noticeable at all if using the MIDI controller?

I'll be able to give you a better rundown next week when I actually connect
the gear together. The OS-imposed latency is between 10 and 20 ms, and
varies with the audio D/A hardware-- the powerbook internal sound manager is
pretty good for lowlatency work. Though I haven't started jamming with it
yet, I'm told its good for realtime performance. CNMAT in Berkeley hosts a
lot of improvising musicians on acoustic and electronics running in software
on MSP. With a desktop machine and a MOTU2408 as an audio interface you can
get flatline 6 ms latency--and since, at MIDI transmission rates, a single
note on message takes 2 ms to transmit, most of the remaining latency is not
even audio!

Best,
jan


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 29 02:48:18 2000
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Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 01:32:06 -0600
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From: Tom S <ths@interaccess.com>
Subject: Re: torn vs. fripp
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I enjoy most of all how they turn Bill Bruford into a whirling dervish! 

At 05:57 PM 2/24/00 -0800, you wrote:
>which do you enjoy more,the ambient/soundscape/looping
>music of David Torn or Robert Fripp? And Why?
>
>- A
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
>http://im.yahoo.com
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 29 02:56:40 2000
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Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 01:36:20 -0600
To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com
From: Tom S <ths@interaccess.com>
Subject: New Lexicon Reverb...MPX 500
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Hi!

     Anybody seen/heard the new Lexicon reverb unit? 

     I read about it in a recent Sound on Sound, they seemed to like it. If
I remember, they put in right between the MPX 1 and PCM 90 in terms of
reverb quality. Best of all, it appears that the unit will be priced
between 500 and 750. Pretty good competition for the new Roland reverb.

     FYI, here's the Lexicon info page:
http://www.lexicon.com/MPX500/homeframe.htm

Tom
ths@interaccess.com


From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 29 03:57:05 2000
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From: "Steven Woods" <swoods@comcen.com.au>
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References: <3.0.6.32.20000229013620.0223e860@pop.interaccess.com>
Subject: Re: New Lexicon Reverb...MPX 500
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:43:37 +1100
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That is not correct, if you look www.lexicon.com support - knowledge base -
consumer access,
The question about reverb quality is answered.
The reverbs are not the same as the MPX 1
they are the same as the MPX 100.

For a magazine to  suggest that to the readership is ridiculous, they should
look at the price point.
Steven Woods

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom S" <ths@interaccess.com>
To: <loopers-delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 6:36 PM
Subject: New Lexicon Reverb...MPX 500


> Hi!
>
>      Anybody seen/heard the new Lexicon reverb unit?
>
>      I read about it in a recent Sound on Sound, they seemed to like it.
If
> I remember, they put in right between the MPX 1 and PCM 90 in terms of
> reverb quality. Best of all, it appears that the unit will be priced
> between 500 and 750. Pretty good competition for the new Roland reverb.
>
>      FYI, here's the Lexicon info page:
> http://www.lexicon.com/MPX500/homeframe.htm
>
> Tom
> ths@interaccess.com
>
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 29 06:14:32 2000
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Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 06:05:02 EST
Subject: Re: dl4 for $1000?!!?!?
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i'll sell mine for $800.oo and throw in some patch cords. the manual is 100 
bucks xtra though. =-) PJ

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 29 07:50:19 2000
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Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 13:07:49 +0100
Subject: A question about feedback
From: "Marco" <mcan@libero.it>
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Hi!
IMy name's Marco, nd I'm writing from Rome (Italy).
Before all excuse me if my english isn't too good. I hope I can explain my
problem.
I've got an Echoplex LoopIII v5.0 , bought 2 years ago, and sometimes
(often) I can't use it because when I turn it on, after the usual sequence
on the display the Feedback indicator light becomes orange and it kepp on
stay in ths mode until in the left part of the display appears "5", the
feddback light turn green but nothing happens if I press Record (both in the
machine and in the footpedal)  or if I try to change the parameters.
Is it a "common" problem. I supposed it was linked to small voltage changes
but now I can't play since a couple of week, so this possibility  sounds
strange.
Does someone knows something?
Thanks a lot
Marco

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 29 09:21:37 2000
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Subject: Re: New Lexicon Reverb...MPX 500
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Steven Woods suggested:

>The reverbs are not the same as the MPX 1
>they are the same as the MPX 100.

>For a magazine to  suggest that to the readership is ridiculous, they should
>look at the price point.

To be fair to all sides, I'm not sure that the "Sound on Sound" reviewer
*did* claim the MPX 500 and the MPX 1 shared reverbs.

In part it reads:
============================================================================
===================================
The Lexicon MPX1 is an established multi-effects/reverb all-rounder that
started life at over a grand, but now sells for little over half its
original price, while the more recent MPX100 is an altogether simpler device
based on presets with limited editability at under £200. I think it's fair
to say that the MPX100 set a new standard for very-low-cost reverb/effects,
but although it sounds impressive for the price, if you put it up against a
PCM90 or 91 you can hear straight away that the more expensive unit sounds
richer, smoother and more spacious.

While the MPX100 is a fine reverb for the fiscally challenged project
studio, the more serious user may demand a little more sonic refinement and
more editability, which is why Lexicon developed the subject of this review
— the MPX500. Based on the same Lexichip III reverb engine that powers the
new generation of Lexicon reverb processors, the MPX500 expands on the
MPX100's philosophy while offering a sound quality that lies somewhere
between the MPX100 and the PCM90/91. So new is this processor that I had to
visit the Lexicon factory in Boston in order to get my hands on one in time
for this review, and while I was there, I was able to do direct comparison
with other Lexicon products in a studio environment before bringing it home
to do further tests. If the MPX100 sits at 1 on a scale of 1 to 10 with the
PCM90 at 10, I'd say the reverbs of the MPX500 score a five or better.


                                 Conclusions

You can buy more versatile multi-effects boxes than the MPX500 for around
the same price, but I don't
think any of them offers the quality of reverb available here. Similarly,
the non-reverb effects may provide
nothing new, but they sound just right. Is the MPX500 an alternative, or
even a replacement, for the more
expensive MPX1? Their reverb quality is certainly comparable, but the MPX1
is a far more capable
multi-effects unit, with rather more depth to its editability. At the same
time, more flexibility makes the
MPX1 more time-consuming to program, and for tweaking effects during a
session, the MPX500 is about
as close to perfection as you can get.

In fact, the only real criticism I can make of the MPX500, given its very
attractive price, is its limited
number of user memories. I'd recommend the MPX500 either as a second
reverb/general effects box for
someone who already has something better, or as a main reverb for the
smaller studio owner who
appreciates the benefits of a Lexicon reverb. I'm buying one to back up my
PCM90!

============================================================================
===================================

Hope that clears things up!

Cheers

David
<http://www.mp3.com/davidcooperorton>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 29 09:35:20 2000
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From: "David Potter" <papadave55@hotmail.com>
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Subject: D-beam (light-beam)
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 06:25:16 PST
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Hi loopheads,
    I want to hook up a D-beam to some of my gear and control it with 
different parts of my body.  The D-Beam comes in the Roland 880 rythum box 
but I've got the electribe and ER1 synced to a Dr Rythum 660.  Does anyone 
know if this is possible?  It's a lazer light that controls effects and 
parameters.  Sort of like the Kaoss pad. Thanks, Papa Dave
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 29 09:52:14 2000
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Message-ID: <38BBDBA7.245EA7D1@minds-eye.org>
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 09:45:59 -0500
From: Kevin Cheli-Colando <kevin@minds-eye.org>
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Can you tell me more about the D-beam itself?  Also, have you heard of the
Lightning II?  This may be of interest to you as well.

http://www.buchla.com/lightning/descript.html

actually, if anyone has any more information on such things (remote sensors,
triggers, etc.), I'd be curious to know more.

Kevin

David Potter wrote:

> Hi loopheads,
>     I want to hook up a D-beam to some of my gear and control it with
> different parts of my body.  The D-Beam comes in the Roland 880 rythum box
> but I've got the electribe and ER1 synced to a Dr Rythum 660.  Does anyone
> know if this is possible?  It's a lazer light that controls effects and
> parameters.  Sort of like the Kaoss pad. Thanks, Papa Dave

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 29 10:33:00 2000
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From: Hawkeye255@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:26:02 EST
Subject: Re: D-beam (light-beam)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
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This is what I found on one of Interactive's pages.  http://www.pacificnet.net
/~flux/update.html

February 24, 2000 - In  accordance with Interactive Light the final remaining 
30 Dimension Beams from the original production run of 100 units in 1995 
(previously reserved for professional endorsements only) are being made 
available.  These handbuilt Beams were assembled one-at-a-time and served as 
professional precursors to the later designed consumer model.  They are 
housed in solid metal enclosures specially designed and built to withstand 
professional touring and studio usage.  Internally, they consist of an 
optical block and 6 separate printed circuit boards in order to eliminate any 
analog/digital crosstalk.  These numbered professional units are now being 
made available and will cost $500.00 each.  Included will be power supply 
(110V or 220V), footswitch, and retro-reflectors for optional beam extension. 
     -Vincent De Franco
 
    I use the D-Beam on my SP-808 all the time, but these puppies (above) do 
alot more it seems!
        hawkeye

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 29 10:50:48 2000
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From: Hawkeye255@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:35:01 EST
Subject: Re: D-beam (light-beam) MORE!
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
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http://www.pacificnet.net/~flux/intmap.html

here's a list of controller functions for the previously posted (limited 
edition) Dimension controller.

    hawkeye

PS: I might have to get one of these!!  ;-)

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Subject: Re: D-beam (light-beam)
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:46:19 -0500
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Someone on the Analog Heaven list built a stand-alone
D-Beam controller thingy...you can search the archives
for 'D-Beam' and find the post. BTW, the controller is
commercially available now.

- Larry T

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Potter" <papadave55@hotmail.com>
To: <loopers-delight@annihilist.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 9:25 AM
Subject: D-beam (light-beam)


> Hi loopheads,
>     I want to hook up a D-beam to some of my gear and control it with
> different parts of my body.  The D-Beam comes in the Roland 880 rythum box
> but I've got the electribe and ER1 synced to a Dr Rythum 660.  Does anyone
> know if this is possible?  It's a lazer light that controls effects and
> parameters.  Sort of like the Kaoss pad. Thanks, Papa Dave
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 29 10:44:28 2000
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From: "Pedro Felix" <PedroFelix@worldnet.att.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: New Lexicon Reverb...MPX 500
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 10:37:27 -0600
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Okay, i'll weigh in on this quickly. Just yesterday I scored the MPX500,
after much internal and external debate with myself and others! I was
initially leaning toward the 500 when I saw the press release on the Lexicon
site, then I picked up Sound on Sound, read the review three times, also
read the review for T.C.'s M-One. Then went over to Sam Ash and started
working dials. I also had the opportunity to twiddle with the M1 which is
quite impressive,...the one problem I had with the MPX1 was the "looping"
capability, a whopping 2.2 seconds in mono!, why did the fine folks at
Lexicon go there, it's such a waste of memory, yes and this unit has two
processing chips, but there are limitations when using an EQ setting whilst
attempting to get a nice reverb or delay going,....so my thought was why
bother putting in an eq. which has these limitations? The MPX 500 does not
have eq programs, but that enables one to utilize the effects that are
onboard a lot easier and with more flexibility. Oh yeah and the delay,
though not a looper, is 5.5 seconds in mono! Ultimately, what struck me is
that the MPX 500 came out well after the MPX 1, i'm sure the craftspeople at
Lexicon listened to what reviewers and musicians said about a few of the
limitations of the 1 and took that into account when designing the 500.
Thus, creating a nice unit. Reverbs, yes, very nice on both units, the M1
has the edge on that account, but I was looking for a performance unit
overall. I say go down to your local music store and start turning dials,
pressing pads and don't stop until they kick you out. That's what sold me!
Cheers, Pedro

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 29 11:53:03 2000
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From: "Mike Biffle" <mbiffle@svg.com>
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Subject: Re: D-beam (light-beam)
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Hey Papa... These guys have a full midi controller product range of
light, tough and sound sensitive sensors integrated into a system.
I've drooled over possible applications of these pups for the last
year, but alas, won't have cash for that kind of stuff for a good
while. You may as well be the guinea pig for this stuff as well! 8-)
I'm gonna have to get back down to your place for some playing and
demo-ing of your latest level of gear integration!

Bestest...
-Miko

Infusion Systems web site....

http://www.infusionsystems.com/products/

>>> "David Potter" <papadave55@hotmail.com> 02/29 6:33 AM >>>
Hi loopheads,
    I want to hook up a D-beam to some of my gear and control it with

different parts of my body.  The D-Beam comes in the Roland 880
rythum box 
but I've got the electribe and ER1 synced to a Dr Rythum 660.  Does
anyone 
know if this is possible?  It's a lazer light that controls effects
and 
parameters.  Sort of like the Kaoss pad. Thanks, Papa Dave
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com 

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 29 14:32:41 2000
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Message-ID: <4495C77AB577D31199120008C756D0C413024C@migarexch01.maritz.com>
From: "Liebig, Steuart A." <LiebigSA@Maritz.com>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: looping show plus, ventura, ca, usa
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 14:15:38 -0500
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Saturday, March 4, 8 pm
Art City II, Ventura, CA
31 Peking Street, Ventura (on the very edge)
Admission: a mere $5

Jeff Kaiser Trio
Jeff Kaiser, trumpet and electronics; Woody Aplanalp, guitars, loopage;
Steuart
Liebig, basses, loopage

Clay Chaplin/Eric Getter
Clay Chaplin: Video, Computer, Electronics, Stupid Thing; Eric Getter:
Percussion

Clay performs electronic music live with a pair of controller gloves linked
to his computer. 
He will be doing video AND music at this show. A rare treat to see an
exceptional performer with a unique musical and visual palette.

Bring blankets, pillows, bean-bag chairs, lawn chairs, et cetera.
This is an indoor-sit-on-the-floor concert.

For Directions: http://www.mapblast.com/

More info:
http://www.jetlink.net/~pfmentum

From Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com  Tue Feb 29 19:54:58 2000
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Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 18:38:48 -0600
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Tom S <ths@interaccess.com>
Subject: Re: New Lexicon Reverb...MPX 500
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Hi,

	It looks like I mis-remembered the article, yes, the reviewer put it
between the _MPX100_ and the PCM90. 

	Regardless, I'm still wondering how well the MPX500 is in general. Since
any MPX is not much more than some hardware chips and software, I was
hoping that the "new" MPX500 would have a reverb fairly close to the PCM90.
>From just a hardware/software standpoint, I'd expect the MPX500 to blow the
MPX100 and MPX1 out of the water due to the MPX500 being a much new piece
of equipment.

	Perhaps hardware/software based musical instruments don't follow Moore's
Law as closely as the PC marketplace does.  :-D

	Anybody own an MPX500?

Tom

At 02:15 PM 2/29/00 GMT, you wrote:
>Steven Woods suggested:
>
>>The reverbs are not the same as the MPX 1
>>they are the same as the MPX 100.
>
>>For a magazine to  suggest that to the readership is ridiculous, they should
>>look at the price point.
>
>To be fair to all sides, I'm not sure that the "Sound on Sound" reviewer
>*did* claim the MPX 500 and the MPX 1 shared reverbs.
>
>In part it reads:
>============================================================================
>===================================
>The Lexicon MPX1 is an established multi-effects/reverb all-rounder that
>started life at over a grand, but now sells for little over half its
>original price, while the more recent MPX100 is an altogether simpler device
>based on presets with limited editability at under £200. I think it's fair
>to say that the MPX100 set a new standard for very-low-cost reverb/effects,
>but although it sounds impressive for the price, if you put it up against a
>PCM90 or 91 you can hear straight away that the more expensive unit sounds
>richer, smoother and more spacious.
>
>While the MPX100 is a fine reverb for the fiscally challenged project
>studio, the more serious user may demand a little more sonic refinement and
>more editability, which is why Lexicon developed the subject of this review
>— the MPX500. Based on the same Lexichip III reverb engine that powers the
>new generation of Lexicon reverb processors, the MPX500 expands on the
>MPX100's philosophy while offering a sound quality that lies somewhere
>between the MPX100 and the PCM90/91. So new is this processor that I had to
>visit the Lexicon factory in Boston in order to get my hands on one in time
>for this review, and while I was there, I was able to do direct comparison
>with other Lexicon products in a studio environment before bringing it home
>to do further tests. If the MPX100 sits at 1 on a scale of 1 to 10 with the
>PCM90 at 10, I'd say the reverbs of the MPX500 score a five or better.
>
>
>                                 Conclusions
>
>You can buy more versatile multi-effects boxes than the MPX500 for around
>the same price, but I don't
>think any of them offers the quality of reverb available here. Similarly,
>the non-reverb effects may provide
>nothing new, but they sound just right. Is the MPX500 an alternative, or
>even a replacement, for the more
>expensive MPX1? Their reverb quality is certainly comparable, but the MPX1
>is a far more capable
>multi-effects unit, with rather more depth to its editability. At the same
>time, more flexibility makes the
>MPX1 more time-consuming to program, and for tweaking effects during a
>session, the MPX500 is about
>as close to perfection as you can get.
>
>In fact, the only real criticism I can make of the MPX500, given its very
>attractive price, is its limited
>number of user memories. I'd recommend the MPX500 either as a second
>reverb/general effects box for
>someone who already has something better, or as a main reverb for the
>smaller studio owner who
>appreciates the benefits of a Lexicon reverb. I'm buying one to back up my
>PCM90!
>
>============================================================================
>===================================
>
>Hope that clears things up!
>
>Cheers
>
>David
><http://www.mp3.com/davidcooperorton>
>
>

