From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 10:22:21 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 02:08:35 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKKRd-0002Ey-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:08:33 -0800 X-Sender: doug@mail.lightlink.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199804010606.WAA04518@onyx.sunset.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:08:30 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Doug Wyatt Subject: Re: the quest Resent-Message-ID: <"F7kM7C.A.ZxB.mFhI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4793 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:08:33 -0800 X-UIDL: 5809312dfe13a7ded97983470ea6d4a6 Matt wrote: > Well Laurie, after writing the above I've scraped the piece I was working > on. I felt I was trying too hard...the music wasn't happening. The problem > seems to be trying to force some sort of form over something that is totally > improvished. It just wasn't working for me. > > I'm beginning to feel like a looping poser. > > >>Honestly, I don't know what I'm looking > >>for...but I'm fairly certain that I will know when I find it. Hopefully. > > > >You know, I feel like I just spent the last four years feeling that way. > So it > >really struck me when you said this. The fact that you're *looking* is > what > >really counts. > > I hope you are right! I just want to jump in with a word of encouragement. Keep at it and something good will happen. I've done a lot of composing based on improvs and it's an elusive thing. Sometimes the original improv has to be used verbatim, or not used at all -- it's just that quirky. At times I have spent days transcribing and learning to play something I improvised, in order to try to record a better performance of the idea -- not always successfully. Sometimes I get something finished and decide that I've created a fine realization of a mediocre idea. That's okay; I spent the time playing music instead of watching TV at least. Some improvised loops are cool, but I have no idea of what I'd do with them. I might fly one into the sampler, to play with it at other speeds/pitches, and to file it away in my own mind and on disk. Sometimes later I'll be composing/arranging, wanting the inspiration of a new sound, go browsing through the sampled loop library, and find something that works. But more than all that, I think Laurie is right ... the most important thing is to keep trying. Please let us know how it goes! Doug --- Doug Wyatt doug@sonosphere.com Sonosphere (music and music software) http://www.sonosphere.com/ my new CD, "Accidental Beauties": http://www.sonosphere.com/wyatt/ From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 01:27:51 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 00:02:36 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKITh-0003SJ-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 00:02:33 -0800 Message-Id: <199804010757.CAA29278@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Central jersey Loop gig... Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:56:26 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"NIq0cC.A.7sC.JOfI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4790 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 00:02:33 -0800 X-UIDL: deae7b85b9efbb1abdd44343e0fa25cc shamless ad here folks... bear with me. hope you don't get a bunch HTML glitch: this promises to be a night of weirdness..... SUNDAY APRIL 5 Doors 7:30 Show 8:15pm Music From The Outer Edge With Slumbersigh 8:15pm Bon Lozaga (of GONG) Solo Guitar Loops- Sonic Abandon 9:00pm JFK's LSD UFO9:45pm andre cholmondeley -guitar/synth,vocals,samples. Loops cheri jiosne - percuss.,drums,synth, Loops Mooter Wholesale & Manufacturing (MN) 10:30pm The Saint * 601 Main St * Asbury Park NJ The saint's a cool little bar, tho' it's 18+ friendly... 732-775-9144 --- 18 TO ENTER !!! 21 TO DRINK Info/band links at http://www.jswd.net/projectobject need more info/directions, etc contact andre@monmouth.com or 732-747-6448 thanks !!! = andre' c From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 10:23:02 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 07:38:09 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKPaa-0002qw-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 07:38:08 -0800 Message-ID: <3522024B.45E8991B@nyfac.com> Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 10:00:59 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: It's no crisis- it's just you having fun... References: <01bd5d67$b13e32a0$df024382@pentium-200> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"25r4K.A.RJC.t5lI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4800 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 07:38:08 -0800 X-UIDL: 918eaaaf5ceb828a009747ea91dd73d2 1) get a little ambient if your normally stack guitar parts. If are normally ambients, try stacking discrete lines/parts. 2) put a melodic line that cycles in three over a loop in four. 3) play an mbira style melody in triplets over a loop in four. 4) randomly subtitute numbers in suggestions 2&3. 5) try new harmonies (this alone is worth the cost of my admision)- chords on top of chords, desending lines over asending lines. Fool around over pedal tones. 6) make percussive tracks by clicking your pickups with your strings, electric screwdrivers, vibrators, etc. 7) lay down texture beds with electric screwdrivers, vibrators, electric and manual lint removers. 8) try looping with a bass if you are guitarist. If you play keyboards, see a therapist! ;-) 9) sell it. and my favorite: 10) go to the store. Buy two sixpacks of Guiness and a half gallon of Wild Turkey 101 (is it just me, or does regular Kickin' Chicken taste like paint thinner?). If it is hot enought, you are alowed to substitute Tanqueray and tonics. If you have glaucoma, smoke some of your medication. Call your friend Bob, the Neil Young fan. Invite him over. Tell him to bring his guitar. Set you rig up outside if it is not raining. At least open a window. Hook the output of your JamMan into a tremelo pedal. Responsibly sample some of the aforementioned beverage. Perhaps your eyes are still hurting? Loop the verse of either 'Down By the River' or 'Cowgirl in the Sand'. Turn the tremelo pedal on, and indulge yourself. From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 10:22:27 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 02:44:34 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKL0Q-0004Vr-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:44:30 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKL0N-0000aj-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:44:28 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKL0J-0004Uv-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:44:23 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 05:37:40 -0500 From: R & T Cummings Subject: Re: Oberheim Drummer (was: Loopinh Ensembler) Sender: R & T Cummings To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199804010538_MC2-3892-9D19@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"NtfslB.A.1hD.UlhI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4794 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:44:23 -0800 X-UIDL: c2237668c35fcb35c93bee3f39c5c071 Oops, sorry about the double-post - After I thought I lost the first one, I cursed my mail program and reentered it. Looking at them now it sort of strikes as funny how the same message ended up a little different the second time. Sort of like playing songs live and comparing an older version with a new one ... anyway, schtoopid ole me says SORRY. Rob From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 10:22:28 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 02:44:35 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKL0R-0004WA-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:44:31 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 05:37:44 -0500 From: R & T Cummings Subject: Re: CAN (Was: DAW options overload) Sender: R & T Cummings To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199804010538_MC2-3892-9D1A@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"N0FX1C.A.ZjD.clhI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4795 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 02:44:31 -0800 X-UIDL: abe93c219ff359e97916949b77ae67f5 John Nielson wrote >Actually, I think most of CAN's classic albums were recorded live to >2-track, and post-production consisted of editing their improvisations >with a razor where necessary.< Yes, you're right about all of this - in fact CAN were using tape loops of rhythm grooves back in 1971 with TAGO MAGO (esp. on "Halleluwa"). What I in fact meant earlier about CAN's demise was that when they stopped using the tape-loop & multi-bounced two-track method with LANDED album in 1975 - and switched to using a 16-track - that this killed the spirit of the band. They admit this themselves. But they nonetheless released a plethora of great albums before this: TAGO MAGO, EGE BAMYASI, FUTURE DAYS, UNLIMITED EDITION, SOON OVER BABALUMA and bootlegs etc. As you can tell by my interest, CAN is one of my favorite all-time bands! P.S. I do not wish to refute the usefulness of DAW's! Basically all of the recordings our band ROPE does end up being edited using CoolEDIT and EMagic stuff. That's more my bandmate's specialty than mine, though. From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 10:22:57 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 07:08:59 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKP8L-0007FO-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 07:08:57 -0800 Message-ID: <01BD5D6D.45A0B3A0.andrew@bocs.com> From: andrew Reply-To: "andrew@no_spambocs.co.com" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: JamMan Delay Mode Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:54:10 +0100 Organization: bocs X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tfdMUB.A.KRG.WelI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4799 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 07:08:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 4d26277376761167fbee3c4dc449c3d5 There's a pedal made by BOSS called the LS-1 which has several features for mixing different inputs as well as a couple of FX inserts. In all quite a few choices ( but only one at a time ) I was using it as an A/B pedal but recently started experimenting with the inserts - I connected the guitar to input and an amp to the output. Using the pedal I could switch in a cheap microphone stuck in front of the amp and induce mayhem ( with the help of a few extreme pedals to boost the guitar signals ) You could also carry out further experiments like plugging the output of a radio into it, and spinning the dial - short wave 'deedley deep deep' noises are great. Using the mic again you could sing, play flute, tape the dog barking ( play harmonica and tape the dog howling even ) and when you've exhausted all possibilites switch back to normal service and play all your Tomy Iommi solos over it ( or play a real Tony Iommi solo into the mic via a tape recorder ! ) As the LS-1 has two inserts you can connect another device for temporary usage ( I stuck a BOSS DD3 in, set to HOLD mode - play some stuff,press the pedal then manipulte the delay time knob to send odd noises to the amp. Now, if like me you have an A/B pedal with one connection to your main amp and another to your mixer feeding a looping device and some processors you can send your all your diddlings into your loop. But back to the point, Glenn, I'll connect up the jamman and the LS-1 to see if there's a way around the problem of cutting input to the JM. Way back, I used to just turn down the JM's input knob, play, then turn it up when I want to add more in. Now I use the A/B pedal, so have the two amp solution I guess. Yours in experimentation Andrew Andrew@bocs.com -----Original Message----- From: VanEyck [SMTP:vaneyck@interlog.com] Sent: 31 March 1998 15:53 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: JamMan Delay Mode One way to do this with one pedal is if you have a two input amp (any Fender, most Marshalls and Hiwatts, Roland JC etc...). Morley and Ernie Ball make a stereo panning pedal. Pan in one direction, the clean guitar signal goes into input 1, pan the other way the guitar signal goes into the Jamman in loop mode and then into input 2. Some amps second input is made for a low impedence signal which is perfect for the Jamman anyways. If you can only use one input you could still sum the two signals back together at the amp with a Y cable if necessary. This way you can also slowly mix a non looped passage into the delay stream and vice-versa. Best, TREVOR. VanEyck@interlog.com On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Glenn Greenway wrote: > Hello Eveyone: > > Recently, some great suggestions were posted about the JamMan's delay > mode and how it is well suited for looping. I tried all the suggestions > and am very impressed. It seems to me that the most significant > difference between delay mode and loop mode is that in the former loop > points can be _repositioned on the fly_ while in the latter once set, > the JamMan needs to be _'reset'_. Also in delay mode there are 16 > Feedback levels as opposed to the three MIDI fades offered in loop mode. > Those two differences are WAY substantial! I can't believe how much > more organicly my loops evolve in delay mode than in loop mode. > > However, there is an equally prominent downside to using delay > mode...the often stated bypass problem. Everything one plays get added > to the pot resulting in an unwieldy and blurry mix. > > It has been suggested that a volume pedal, inserted into the effects > loop might help but with my simple rig (guitar, amp, jamman, digitech > Control Seven MIDI pedalboard) all that happens is that the guitar > signal gets turned down before the JamMan and then _you can't hear it_. > An A/B box is also suggested as an alternative but that sounds rather > too _binary_ for my taste. > > What is needed is a way to bypass the JamMan in one's effect loop. If > the signal could be variably split by a volume or MIDI control pedal > (before the JamMan, effectivley bypassing it)and then remixed after, I > suspect the JamMan might become _much_ more valuable as an interactive > musical device. But how? The remixing seems to no problem but what > kind of 'Splitter Pedals' are available? > > I know that a mixer would solve the bypass problem, but a pedal would be > better. Are there other alternatives that I haven't considered? > > Thanks again to everyone on the list, what a significantly groovy bunch. > > Viva la Peepers! > > From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 10:22:42 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 04:19:01 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKMTr-0002xF-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 04:18:59 -0800 From: "Woehni" To: , Subject: Crisis!!!!!! Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 14:14:17 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd5d67$b13e32a0$df024382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"4Jeys.A.GjC.gAjI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4796 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 04:18:59 -0800 X-UIDL: c0d4b8e9fdf2d69bf57d2e26e3b70290 Hi friends , I`ve got a major crisis on my hands. I`m gonna come right out and say it: I`ve begun to get doubts about looping.................and I need some reassuring. The thing is , when I loop it doesn`t seem to go anywhere. I always get stuck in the same tracks and the music sounds like.........looping. Sometimes my Jamman can feel like a limitation , rather than a new colour on my (somewhat limited) canvas. At this point I feel like taking a break from the whole looping world and just plug straight in. There is nothing wrong with this , of course , a clean sound is often the bast way to go. This is proven over and over again by players who doesnt care about effects. So this doesnt worry me; I dont see it as a problem to want to plug straight in the amp. BUT: It worries me that what started out like a dream with endless posibilities ended SO QUICKLY. I had a ball with it , played in different musical situations and HAD FUN. And now it suddenly feels so alien. Like a third arm or something. Have any of you gone through something similar?? If so , how did u get through it?? I must add that I`m not the type of person that jump on everything and get bored with it after a short while. I`m usually quite patient and persistent. I`ve had a very busy schedule for the last couple of months and worked very hard. Now I`m starting to feel tired and I`m looking forward to the Easter Holiday. Maybe this is the answer? Maybe It`s just fatigue and my looping energy will return after the holiday??? I hope so. Yours , Thomas w Oslo , norway From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 11:40:21 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 11:09:11 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKSsj-0005aR-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:09:05 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:14:55 -0500 From: R & T Cummings Subject: Re: Loopinh Ensembler Sender: R & T Cummings To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199804010815_MC2-389C-E73@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"UE0EKC.A.4TE.q8oI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4804 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:09:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 85f5e4e76efb275bba34830602f2255e Kim wrote: >- the echoplex has a pulse sync input (BeatSync), which you could connect >to a drum trigger. So the drummer could be providing a "sync" for your >loops. (or his own loops) Each time he hits it, the plex retriggers the >loop. If he doesn't hit it, the echoplex keeps going or stops, depending >how you have it set up. You can also use this for recording loops according >to the drummer's tempo in the first place, if you aren't very good at >tapping the start/stop in time. Of course, the drummer might have to >understand how this works, which could be difficult. ;-)< OK, Kim just answered about all of my questions from my last posts. I now know how to solve all my problems - buy an ECHOPLEX! As soon as I can convince the S.O. that this is REALLY important, a necessity ... Let's attribute my problems to Kim's subtle but effective salesmanship ;-). Hey Kim, here'z to the phat beatz! Killah dope! ;-) Concerning drummerz (being that I am one): some more jokez 4 ya: Q: What'z the lazt thing that goez through a drummerz mind when he hits the brakez at a red light? A: Hiz zymbalz! Little Max zayz to Mum: When I grow up I wanna be a drummer! Mum'z retort: Well Max, you can't be both! Q: What are a drummerz last wordz? A: Hey guyz, let'z play one of my tunez ... Rob (dizmizzing the letter 'S') From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 10:22:55 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 06:38:14 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKOea-00046W-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 06:38:12 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:30:42 -0500 From: buzzard@world.std.com (Sean T Barrett) Message-Id: <199804011330.AA10145@world.std.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: MIDI problems ??? Resent-Message-ID: <"dJ1n7D.A.7kD.5ClI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4798 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 06:38:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 361a08ce1fc17077728288f643a884da >Now realize: modern synthesizers are quite capable of providing >huge and subtle varieties over the timbre of a sound. You mean opening and closing a low-pass filter? Multi-samples are still the most-widely used audio rendering technology around, and that seems to be the only significant timbral change supported. And I've complained before about the fact that neither the GR-30 nor the super-filter-centric Morpheus synth actually bothers having their filters track dynamic pitch changes (their filters follow triggered pitches, not pitch bent pitches, which is a poor match for how guitar controllers transmit things like hammer-ons-- and the GR-30 is a guitar synth!). I'd much prefer to see them get what they've got now working better than worry about transmitting new stuff. As you say, simply speeding up MIDI will be a useful first step. If someone can multiplex MIDI channels somehow so every note gets its own channel, I think that (the two together) would solve the vast majority of the problems. Sean From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:10:50 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 12:33:34 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKUCN-0000zW-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:33:27 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.2.16.19980401074450.3627bed8@texas.net> X-Sender: sharkey@texas.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (16) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 07:44:50 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: james rhodes Subject: Re: Crisis! Jamman for sale???? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"oXMrhD.A.rMG.8EqI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4812 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:33:27 -0800 X-UIDL: 93bf68a7e52c512bf58cca6d949a6c90 1) take a break 2) play with some other musicians 3) go buy some new music,,might inspire ya 4) dont over-analyze your situation if none of the above works 5) sell me your jamman dont worry it will pass,,,relax,,,and think about why you bought it in the first place its a phase man.... At 11:05 AM 4/1/98 -0800, you wrote: >> Hi friends , I`ve got a major crisis on my hands. I`m gonna come right out >>and say it: >> >>I`ve begun to get doubts about looping.................and I need some >>reassuring. >> >>The thing is , when I loop it doesn`t seem to go anywhere. I always get >>stuck in >>the same tracks and the music sounds like.........looping. Sometimes my Jamman >>can feel like a limitation , rather than a new colour on my (somewhat >>limited) canvas. >> >I played a gig with Minus last night, and afterwards, I noticed that I'd >only used the JamMan very briefly. It was not really a concsious decision >not to loop or anything, it's just the way that the variables added up for >this night, and it seemed that we were a bit lighter on our feet than >usual, and it was nice to have the space that the loops usually fill. We're >not a looping band, per se, though both the guitarist and I have jamsters >(and the drummer's pretty loopy as well), looping is just one of our bag of >tricks. > >>BUT: It worries me that what started out like a dream with endless >>posibilities ended >>SO QUICKLY. I had a ball with it , played in different musical >>situations and HAD FUN. >>And now it suddenly feels so alien. Like a third arm or something. >> >>Have any of you gone through something similar?? If so , how did u get >>through it?? >> >When I go back over tapes of gigs just after I got the JamMan, I now cringe >at how much I used it. Over time, I figured out where it was appropriate, >where it was just a gimmick, and where it could really do something >magical. I think that what you're going through is just your automatic >censor kicking in. You've probably learned a lot about the techniques of >looping by using it all the time, now subconsciously you are wanting to >figure out the esthetics of looping. If what feels right is to play without >effects, then do that, but whatever you do, don't get rid of the JamMan, at >some point you'll probably come back to it with a better idea of how it >fits your personal approach to music. > >________________________________________________________ >Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ > >"...there will come a day when you won't have to use >gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in >your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper >type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em >together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em >together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." > -Sun Ra >________________________________________________________ > > > > > From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 10:23:12 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 09:43:25 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKRXg-00025w-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:43:16 -0800 Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD02CA077@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Crisis!!!!!! Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:35:47 -0600 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Resent-Message-ID: <"q7P5fB.A.5DB.lsnI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4801 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:43:16 -0800 X-UIDL: 13c443fdb6299f062ad6d07c443d6d5b Tom W., If all you eat is bread, it gets boring/unsatisfying after awhile. Try herring (sorry, poor joke). Looping is just a tool (sorry), it's not the end -all-maybe it's learning to incorporate it into your overall musical vocabulary. SUGGESTIONS/COMMENTARY Solo Practice at Home: Try playing pieces/doing improvisations that have nothing to do with looping. Or just sit down for a 45-minute period of time and do whatever comes to mind . . . maybe you'll find that the next step in the flow IS looping. Growth Process: Haven't you ever felt the "RUT" show up before? It means you're ready to go to your next phase-whatever that may be. It's all part of the growth process. How do you deal with this normally? Usually, when I get in this sort of situation, I try to analyze what it is that's bugging me about what I'm doing-or try to figure out what's lacking/where I want to go or be. (Once, when I hated my soloing, I realized that I wanted to sound like Lester Bowie playing bass, so I tried imagining what that meant-and I tried to figure out how to achieve that.) Sometimes, I decide to pull back from writing and concentrate on writing. Lately, I've felt like I wanted to pull a Sonny Rollins or Gary Peacock-just hole up and practice and forget about gigs, etc. for a good long time. If all you're doing is practicing, get out and play. A friend of mine had that deck of cards that Brian Eno made (Oblique Strategies?), that seemed to have a lot of interesting possibilites . . . Fatigue: If you're schedule's been super-busy, maybe you're just tired. stig > ---------- > From: Woehni > Reply To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 1998 4:19 AM > To: LiebigSA@maritz.com > Subject: Crisis!!!!!! > > > > Hi friends , I`ve got a major crisis on my hands. I`m gonna come > right out > and say it: > > I`ve begun to get doubts about looping.................and I need some > reassuring. > > The thing is , when I loop it doesn`t seem to go anywhere. I always > get stuck in > the same tracks and the music sounds like.........looping. Sometimes > my Jamman > can feel like a limitation , rather than a new colour on my (somewhat > limited) canvas. > > At this point I feel like taking a break from the whole looping world > and just plug straight > in. There is nothing wrong with this , of course , a clean sound is > often the bast way to > go. This is proven over and over again by players who doesnt care > about effects. So this > doesnt worry me; I dont see it as a problem to want to plug straight > in the amp. > > BUT: It worries me that what started out like a dream with endless > posibilities ended > SO QUICKLY. I had a ball with it , played in different musical > situations and HAD FUN. > And now it suddenly feels so alien. Like a third arm or something. > > Have any of you gone through something similar?? If so , how did u > get through it?? > > I must add that I`m not the type of person that jump on everything and > get bored with it after > a short while. I`m usually quite patient and persistent. > > I`ve had a very busy schedule for the last couple of months and worked > very hard. Now I`m starting to feel tired and I`m looking forward to > the Easter Holiday. Maybe this is the answer? > Maybe It`s just fatigue and my looping energy will return after the > holiday??? > > I hope so. > > Yours , Thomas w > > Oslo , norway > > From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:10:48 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 12:17:03 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKTwS-0006Hc-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:17:00 -0800 Message-ID: <35227D8C.70EEC245@vtx.ch> Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 19:46:52 +0200 From: "c.voit" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Crisis!!!!!! References: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD02CA077@migarexch01.maritz.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"smo_e.A.WjE.W4pI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4811 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:17:00 -0800 X-UIDL: 68ce5ecf1d4756a809f4a6111eaaa359 Oblique strategies on the net http://www.dream.com/Oblique.html tried it just 2 min ago, the cards wheren't talking to me beuh Claude From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 11:53:07 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 11:52:58 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKTZ6-0002sM-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:52:52 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKTZ3-00076A-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:52:49 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKTYs-0002q9-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:52:38 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:02:05 -0800 Message-ID: <000B2262.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re: Crisis!!!!!! To: , "Woehni" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"xR-6gB.A.TGB.IipI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4809 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:52:38 -0800 X-UIDL: a328a0c219963059a27ad96ce1f4b514 Woehni laments... TW: Hi friends , I`ve got a major crisis on my hands. I`m gonna come right out and say it: I`ve begun to get doubts about looping.................and I need some reassuring. MB: Hey Thomas... don't sell that looper yet! Your coming out of the honeymoon period! You'll get a second wind in a while. Be patient. Absolutely do not sell your looper. The thing is , when I loop it doesn`t seem to go anywhere. I always get stuck in the same tracks and the music sounds like.........looping. Sometimes my Jamman can feel like a limitation , rather than a new colour on my (somewhat limited) canvas. MB: Use the delay mode and make sure you lower the regen enough to force some change into your process. Use more ambiguous and ambient material to create the loop. Fade it and overdub... fade again and repeat. And last but not least. It's only there to help you when you need it. Just freakin' bypass the sucker and blast! TW: At this point I feel like taking a break from the whole looping world and just plug straight in. There is nothing wrong with this , of course , a clean sound is often the bast way to go. This is proven over and over again by players who doesnt care about effects. So this doesnt worry me; I dont see it as a problem to want to plug straight in the amp. MB: First of all... Don't call yourself a looper! It really frees you up to behave in other obsessive compulsive ways. 8-> (Blasphemy, I know, but...) You may want to still keep that looper in line and just not notice it quite as much. Don't let it run the show. You can always reach over and turn the input or ouput down. Run that sucker in parallel. It's much more versatile and controllable. A looper can also be a very serviceable short delay with good real time tap tempo. Use it as such for awhile. I used to use my JamMan for 1/8 triplet delays in live bands all the time. The possibility is there to then re-tap and massively stretch your time waaayyyy out for radical solo potential or actual looped segments. Re-tap to shorter times to return to more "normal" activity. TW: BUT: It worries me that what started out like a dream with endless posibilities ended SO QUICKLY. I had a ball with it , played in different musical situations and HAD FUN. And now it suddenly feels so alien. Like a third arm or something. Have any of you gone through something similar?? If so , how did u get through it?? MB: Oh yeah... It comes around periodically. Just pick up an acoustic instrument or use a different DSP or take a hike. The concepts are all still valid. TW: I must add that I`m not the type of person that jump on everything and get bored with it after a short while. I`m usually quite patient and persistent. I`ve had a very busy schedule for the last couple of months and worked very hard. Now I`m starting to feel tired and I`m looking forward to the Easter Holiday. Maybe this is the answer? Maybe It`s just fatigue and my looping energy will return after the holiday??? I hope so. Yours , Thomas w MB: I've been in acoustic unplugged mode for most of the 3 years of my boy's life, cause it's so easy (and gratifying). I'm a lifestyle electric player though, so it always comes around again. At this point I have to set up my fairly large pile o' gear each time I play cause I still don't have a real room for it. I do this once a week right now, and that's not nearly enough. It would be easy to learn to hate my gear for this. But it sounds so good (mostly) and I know I'll get more time later etc... It's all perspective and you'll get yours back. All the best Thom... -Miko From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 11:40:07 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 10:26:53 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKSDn-0007ir-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:26:47 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKSDj-00028B-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:26:43 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKSDd-0007hm-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:26:37 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:19:40 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199804011819.NAA14826@mcfeely.concentric.net> X-Sender: hideo@pop3.concentric.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Tom Lambrecht Subject: Re: It's no crisis- it's just you having fun... Resent-Message-ID: <"87d9nD.A.GVG.CVoI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4802 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:26:37 -0800 X-UIDL: 1437c7255b9c2d71980c8e8be8946dd8 sage advice-- I just picked up a sixer of Liberty Ale and a fifth of Sauza Hornitos and am hunkering down in front of the rack till one of us is looping . . . drone on~~~~~~~~~Tom At 10:00 AM 4/1/98 +0100, you wrote: >1) get a little ambient if your normally stack guitar parts. If are normally ambients, try stacking discrete lines/parts. > >2) put a melodic line that cycles in three over a loop in four. > >3) play an mbira style melody in triplets over a loop in four. > >4) randomly subtitute numbers in suggestions 2&3. > >5) try new harmonies (this alone is worth the cost of my admision)- chords on top of chords, desending lines over asending lines. Fool around over pedal tones. > >6) make percussive tracks by clicking your pickups with your strings, electric screwdrivers, vibrators, etc. > >7) lay down texture beds with electric screwdrivers, vibrators, electric and manual lint removers. > >8) try looping with a bass if you are guitarist. If you play keyboards, see a therapist! ;-) > >9) sell it. > >and my favorite: > >10) go to the store. Buy two sixpacks of Guiness and a half gallon of Wild Turkey 101 (is it just me, or does regular Kickin' Chicken taste like paint thinner?). If it is hot enought, you >are alowed to substitute Tanqueray and tonics. If you have glaucoma, smoke some of your medication. > >Call your friend Bob, the Neil Young fan. Invite him over. Tell him to bring his guitar. > >Set you rig up outside if it is not raining. At least open a window. Hook the output of your JamMan into a tremelo pedal. > >Responsibly sample some of the aforementioned beverage. Perhaps your eyes are still hurting? > >Loop the verse of either 'Down By the River' or 'Cowgirl in the Sand'. > >Turn the tremelo pedal on, and indulge yourself. > > > > > > > Tom Lambrecht hideo@concentric.net From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 11:40:25 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 11:31:35 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKTE5-0000zN-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:31:09 -0800 Received: from (gatekeeper.wj.com) [204.30.16.2] by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKSEH-000291-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:27:17 -0800 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gatekeeper.wj.com (8.8.8/8.8.6) id KAA14868; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:26:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from ccsmtp.wj.com(144.172.15.213) by gatekeeper.wj.com via smap (V2.0) id xmaa14858; Wed, 1 Apr 98 10:26:44 -0800 Received: from ccMail by ccsmtp.wj.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.11 Enterprise) id 000B22BD; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:30:23 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:22:54 -0800 Message-ID: <000B22BD.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re[2]: MIDI problems ??? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Mike.Biffle@wj.com, Kim Flint Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part X-UIDL: ceddf1c9fde8c00f0fc12b18d3dd0fa7 Kim... after all you've said below, why aren't you mentioning ZIPI? Is that completely dead as a doornail? Did you have any role in it's r+d? -Miko >> >From: matthew hahn [SMTP:esker@mail.utexas.edu] > >> >>And of course the other problem lies between the front and the end. My >old >> >>friend midi. If you actively tried, you would not be able to design a >worse >> >>networking protocol for musicial instrument control than midi. That >alone >> >>has hampered a lot of potential innovation in musical controllers. > > >i dunno - maybe i'm shooting too low, but midi serves me well - i find my >casio gtr triggers excellent-ly, and my midi mitigator does a plethora of >cool stuff, obidiently, like prog change, note on/off info, chord sends, >start/stops, etc. I get to change programs on my ADA MP1, quadraverb, Kawai >synth and even analog old pedals thru my rockman octopus - all useful, >timesaving stuff for what i do - well, here's an example: On your guitar controller, if you play an artificial harmonic, does the synth respond in some appropriate way? When you apply different types of mute techniques, does anything change in the synth patch? What if you pick near the bridge, or use the flesh of your thumb instead of a pick. Or pick near the bridge. Anything? nope. Most of the expressive control over a sound that a guitar gives you is lost, and about all you have left is pitch and 128 volume levels. Now realize: modern synthesizers are quite capable of providing huge and subtle varieties over the timbre of a sound. Modern sensor tehcnology is readily able to detect all of the things you are doing on a guitar string. But when you try to send all of that information from your musical and expressive controller to your musical and expressive synth, you totally swamp midi. It can't handle all the control data. It's incredibly slow, even by standards at the time it was created in 1981. Also, it's "description language" for describing musical events is terribly shortsighted and limited. (it was only ever intended for a piano key trigger to start a simple synth sound). The right words just aren't there to describe most types of musical events. In the world of modern instrument design, midi is the bottleneck, and has been for years. That is why you so rarely see innovative new electronic instruments, and why the ones you do see are so rarely satisfying. Midi has been the immovable object in the middle. for simple uses, midi is fine. It serves some purposes well. But in many ways, its a thing where you don't know what you are missing, because you've never been able to try it. As far as a network design, midi is just stupid. It's unidirectional, the topology leaves you with at mass of wires everywhere, addressing events on any particular device is clumsy and difficult, and you always end up with a device B that can't talk to device A without rewiring everything. The list goes on, and there are others who have expressed it much better than I. I think there are places on the web you can find if you care. As far as loop specific problems, we would ideally want the capability to transmit audio data along with control information, in real time. We would also want the ability to easily define a loop oriented control language, rather than forcing keyboard commands to do it or spending 6 years in committee meetings at the MMA. These things are beyond midi, and the music industry is not able to get itself organized enough to do anything about it. It doesn't really matter now, because Microsoft is happily changing everything to suit their needs, and I don't expect anybody will be able to do anything about that. I'm holding out hope that firewire will finally come into vogue, and at least speed things up a bit. It's the only technology out there that has both the bandwidth for mass data transfers and low enough latency for useful control activity, without being overwhelmingly expensive. any year now..... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 11:40:13 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 10:54:48 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKSes-0003ZW-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:54:46 -0800 Message-ID: <19980401184706.3911.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [195.232.30.237] From: "Paul Sellars" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: Crisis!!!!!! Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 10:47:05 PST Resent-Message-ID: <"CNo4bB.A.AfC.vvoI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4803 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:54:46 -0800 X-UIDL: cfa6361c15617830c459d2175d634e8d Crisis management time... In essence I'm quoting one of Brian Eno's Oblique Strategies, which runs (something like): 'Discover what recipes you are using and abandon them' I believe that most of us, consciously or otherwise, make the mistake of building up a kind conceptual agenda for our 'ART' - in other words, we end up creating a (too) complicated idea of what would constitute 'success' or 'good art' for us. You might say 'why not? doesn't that give us our direction?' Well, to an extent perhaps, but it may also limit us to only considering a very narrow band of possibilities - ie: only those possibilities which are compatible with the 'recipe' which we have chosen to follow - as if it were the only true route to 'artistic success.' Practically speaking it is very difficult to do as Eno suggests and just 'discover' the recipes we are following. Personally I have only ever become aware of my own self-imposed limitations in hindsight, after I have shaken them off. I would recommend that you consider what kinds of music, or approaches to music, are 'not your style'. You can probably think of a couple of styles of, or approaches to, music that you have always been somehow prejudiced against. Experiment with one or more of these taboos - even if its contrary to all your instincts. Think of John Coltranes 'Ascension'. Why is that music the way it is? Maybe by abandoning melody, harmony and form in the way he did, he was forcing us to abandon our own recipes. You are left with no way to 'understand' the music, and so are faced with 2 questions: i) how does it sound? and ii) how does it feel? This is why music can be so affecting when one is off ones face on certain chemicals: ones intellectual faculties are diminished, and so one is less inclined to analyse what the musician is doing, and more inclined to just hear the sound, and respond to it naturally. Music is less about being clever, and more about being alive. I seem to have wandered off the point. Forgive me. To anyone facing the rut: why do you want to make music? Can you remember the first time you heard a piece of music and realised that something special was going on? How did you feel? So many rhetorical questions... I'm only writing this because I'm in a bit of a rut with my current tune. Theres more info about the oblique strategies at http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/%7Egtaylor/ObliqueStrategies/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 11:40:22 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 11:17:27 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKT0d-0006lj-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:17:15 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:05:49 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Crisis!!!!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"duSKIB.A.x6E.CBpI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4805 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:17:15 -0800 X-UIDL: 3859cf36d255243de53818d570c3240f > Hi friends , I`ve got a major crisis on my hands. I`m gonna come right out >and say it: > >I`ve begun to get doubts about looping.................and I need some >reassuring. > >The thing is , when I loop it doesn`t seem to go anywhere. I always get >stuck in >the same tracks and the music sounds like.........looping. Sometimes my Jamman >can feel like a limitation , rather than a new colour on my (somewhat >limited) canvas. > I played a gig with Minus last night, and afterwards, I noticed that I'd only used the JamMan very briefly. It was not really a concsious decision not to loop or anything, it's just the way that the variables added up for this night, and it seemed that we were a bit lighter on our feet than usual, and it was nice to have the space that the loops usually fill. We're not a looping band, per se, though both the guitarist and I have jamsters (and the drummer's pretty loopy as well), looping is just one of our bag of tricks. >BUT: It worries me that what started out like a dream with endless >posibilities ended >SO QUICKLY. I had a ball with it , played in different musical >situations and HAD FUN. >And now it suddenly feels so alien. Like a third arm or something. > >Have any of you gone through something similar?? If so , how did u get >through it?? > When I go back over tapes of gigs just after I got the JamMan, I now cringe at how much I used it. Over time, I figured out where it was appropriate, where it was just a gimmick, and where it could really do something magical. I think that what you're going through is just your automatic censor kicking in. You've probably learned a lot about the techniques of looping by using it all the time, now subconsciously you are wanting to figure out the esthetics of looping. If what feels right is to play without effects, then do that, but whatever you do, don't get rid of the JamMan, at some point you'll probably come back to it with a better idea of how it fits your personal approach to music. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 11:53:06 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 11:50:49 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKTWx-0002WA-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:50:39 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199804011330.AA10145@world.std.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:06:12 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: MIDI problems ??? Resent-Message-ID: <"LfPU.A.L2.mgpI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4808 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:50:40 -0800 X-UIDL: a1979387b6f282841f976296320d9e74 At 8:30 AM -0500 4/1/98, Sean T Barrett wrote: >>Now realize: modern synthesizers are quite capable of providing >>huge and subtle varieties over the timbre of a sound. > >You mean opening and closing a low-pass filter? no. >Multi-samples are still the most-widely used audio >rendering technology around, and that seems to be the >only significant timbral change supported. That would be an example of an old synth technology. (can you say proteus?) Ordinary sample playback is quite lacking in timbral variety. (although that in itself has been exploited to musically useful ends in many genres.) I was referring to more "modern" synthesis techniques which are starting to show up now that the necessary processing power is reasonably affordable. These would be the more algorithmic approaches like physical modelling, additive, resynthesis, granular, etc. These offer much more sophisticated timbral control opportunities, more like you would expect from traditional instruments. >And I've >complained before about the fact that neither the GR-30 nor >the super-filter-centric Morpheus synth actually >bothers having their filters track dynamic pitch >changes (their filters follow triggered pitches, >not pitch bent pitches, which is a poor match for >how guitar controllers transmit things like hammer-ons-- >and the GR-30 is a guitar synth!). Both of those synths are using technology that is 15-20 years old, repackaged in a new container. In both cases they were tossed together out of existing products from those companies, without requireing any new R&D. Both Roland and Emu have much more sophisticated synthesis products, although neither can hardly be considered the technical leaders in the field. In both cases, their meat&potatoes is the sampling technology they started decades ago and neither has made much effort to move beyond that. >I'd much prefer to see them get what they've got >now working better than worry about transmitting new >stuff. I would encourage you to try some more sophisticated synths, to get a better idea of what is out there. >As you say, simply speeding up MIDI will be >a useful first step. If someone can multiplex MIDI >channels somehow so every note gets its own channel, >I think that (the two together) would solve the vast >majority of the problems. People have tried that, several times actually. The industry refused to adopt the idea. It wouldn't really solve the problem anyway, since bandwidth is only a minor part of the problem. What you are talking about is the ability to individually address and control each note event, which midi simply doesn't allow. If you wanted to do it right, you would have to fully scrap the architecture of midi and start over. I was part of one effort to do that already, and despite substantial funding, we didn't get very far. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Apr 01 11:40:23 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 11:28:03 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKTAz-0000Wj-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:27:57 -0800 From: NEMOGUIT Message-ID: <8a290c36.3522920c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 14:14:17 EST To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: just a test Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 81 Resent-Message-ID: <"i4OEm.A.rHG.VJpI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4806 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:27:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 3cd611f67d9ec8e412f7e173065e2899 sorry-lost all my data-this is just a test too see if i got the right address michael From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:11:18 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 18:54:08 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKa8l-0003RC-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 18:54:07 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKZBP-0003m5-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 17:52:47 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKZBG-0005NR-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 17:52:38 -0800 From: "Woehni" To: "Mike Biffle" , Subject: Crisis is over! Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 21:22:28 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd5da3$822ecec0$f0024382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"se9csD.A.XeE.H5uI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4818 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 17:52:38 -0800 X-UIDL: 80262f5675f8ea6775216a5788fc208e Thank you all very much. what all of you wrote is just what I needed. You have reassured me that what I`m going though is perfectly "normal". I`m gonna approach it a little more relaxed now and first of all I`ll take a good easter holiday..... Im shure it will all come around. I`m very happy that I`m on this list......:-) Yours , Thomas W From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:10:53 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 13:05:53 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKUhe-00068h-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:05:46 -0800 Message-ID: <002201bd5da4$8e62c7e0$4c22dacf@earthlight> Reply-To: "Stephen P. Goodman" From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Ich Nicht Bin Ein Crisis! Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 11:29:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"SSpRD.A.LRE.LnqI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4813 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:05:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 486687aeb64515b739e9a38a65575fb7 Happy April Fools' Day everyone! Really, no joke! Well, sorta... :) But if you point your browsers to my site at http://www.earthlight.net/Studios you'll find a version of the Loop Of The Week made just for April Fools' Day! And the one who figures out where the sounds came from wins! I didn't say what, though... :) Stephen Goodman * It's... The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:10:45 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 12:01:57 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKThn-0004H7-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:01:51 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Scott Johnson (CAN)" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: just a test Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 14:48:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"OXoqZD.A.ajC.brpI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4810 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:01:51 -0800 X-UIDL: 17d3b548c9db964b77e2e47e5d9747e1 Yeah man, this worked! -----Original Message----- From: NEMOGUIT [mailto:NEMOGUIT@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 1998 2:18 PM To: Scott Johnson (CAN) Subject: just a test sorry-lost all my data-this is just a test too see if i got the right address michael From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:11:06 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 15:18:19 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKWll-0001Ta-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 15:18:09 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKUvS-0004PE-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:20:02 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKUv5-0000W3-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:19:39 -0800 Message-ID: <35229CCE.498F@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 13:10:34 -0700 From: baumhaus@earthlink.net Reply-To: baumhaus@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Echoperplexed No More (Oberheim Echoplex Purchase) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"z8H_NB.A.SiG.g1qI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4814 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:19:39 -0800 X-UIDL: b5031c97604485514520cefaafabb804 Thanks for the various responses. I'm still waiting to find out how soon a unit will be available (nobody seems to have them in stock), and I found a pretty good price ($569.00 + $95.00 - thanks Marshall) but I have one more question: I plan to add the memory myself; a cursory look thru MacWarehouse turns up 80ns 4MB 30-pin standard SIMMS going for 49.95; assuming these are the right ones, the upgrade should cost me around $150.00. Seems a little high. Anyone? -Lance Glover aka Wafflehead (cheapness in Santa Monica) From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:11:04 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 15:04:39 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKWYc-0007Ie-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 15:04:34 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980401132839.009cd900@global.california.com> X-Sender: sechevar@global.california.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 13:28:39 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Sean Echevarria Subject: Re: Echoperplexed No More (Oberheim Echoplex Purchase) In-Reply-To: <35229CCE.498F@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"39-kuC.A.myE.LTsI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4815 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 15:04:34 -0800 X-UIDL: f1bc9e3199d7f42c90bfbbf0eca5e6ca Definitely - I upgraded mine using $11.00 4MB SIMMS from a local retailer in San Jose. You should be able to find some easily in the $15 - $20 range if not locally then by looking at the ads in the back of computer magazines. sean At 01:10 PM 4/1/98 -0700, you wrote: >thru MacWarehouse turns up 80ns 4MB 30-pin standard SIMMS going for >49.95; assuming these are the right ones, the upgrade should cost me >around $150.00. Seems a little high. Anyone? From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:11:04 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 15:08:40 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKWcS-00002s-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 15:08:32 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980401214908.00cadf9c@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 13:49:08 -0800 To: baumhaus@earthlink.net From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Echoperplexed No More (Oberheim Echoplex Purchase) Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"_0UthB.A.e8F.LasI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4816 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 15:08:32 -0800 X-UIDL: 1ab3133beb4bbeca269b06cf2adc668d At 01:10 PM 4/1/98 -0700, baumhaus@earthlink.net wrote: >Thanks for the various responses. I'm still waiting to find out how soon >a unit will be available (nobody seems to have them in stock), and I >found a pretty good price ($569.00 + $95.00 - thanks Marshall) but I >have one more question: I plan to add the memory myself; a cursory look >thru MacWarehouse turns up 80ns 4MB 30-pin standard SIMMS going for >49.95; assuming these are the right ones, the upgrade should cost me >around $150.00. Seems a little high. Anyone? > I see them for less than $20 all the time. Look around a little more. In fact, I just did a quick search and found this place selling 4MB simms for $10 each. That's $40 for 198 seconds! (for those keeping track, that's 5% of what it cost to do this when the echoplex came out....) http://www.memexpress.com/corporate/Desktop_p.htm kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:11:31 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 21:55:08 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKcxt-0003US-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 21:55:06 -0800 Sender: mpeters@csi.com Message-ID: <01BD5E0B.E8A3C4E0.mpeters@csi.com> From: Michael Peters To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: AW: Crisis!!!!!! Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 23:56:49 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-Mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"08zd2D.A.NAD.ceyI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4823 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 21:55:06 -0800 X-UIDL: 0421211544c833459bf5c1701f8b5b91 > A friend of mine had that deck of cards that Brian Eno made (Oblique > Strategies?), that seemed to have a lot of interesting possibilites . . good suggestion. The text of the cards is available on the Enoweb. Check http://www.hyperreal.com/music/artists/brian_eno/ michael peters mpeters@csi.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters/ From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:11:13 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 16:44:44 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKY7W-0005PG-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 16:44:42 -0800 From: TritoneDW Message-ID: <485665f0.3522dd01@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 19:34:07 EST To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: MIDI Matrix for sale--no loop content Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 56 Resent-Message-ID: <"hl6g3B.A.MFE.L2tI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4817 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 16:44:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 0527ac12a562bfd7d55e50decc89705d Hello all, Please forgive the crass commercialism, but I thought someone here might be interested in the Mesa/Boogie MIDI Matrix switcher I'm selling. For those who don't know, it's an integrated MIDI and guitar amp switching device. It has 6 effects loops, and 8 function switches for controlling amp functions like channel switching, fx loop on/off, etc. One of the effects loops is can be set up to handle footpedals, which is pretty cool (you can place your wah or phase shifter after the pre-amp in your signal chain, which can give quite interesting results). This is a really great switcher, and it's a Boogie, so it's built like a tank. It's in perfect condition, and I'm selling it for $300. I'm also selling a Boogie Mk. IV head, a DOD 12 channel mixer, an old ART Multiverb EXT digital fx box, a Tom Anderson American Classic electric guitar....I should open a store. Email me at TritoneDW@aol.com if you're interested in any of this stuff. Sorry this commercial was so long. Drew Wheeler From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:11:21 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 19:13:51 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKaRp-0005BR-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 19:13:49 -0800 Message-Id: <199804020309.WAA02882@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Re: MIDI problems ??? Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 22:08:20 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"duKFmD.A.ofE.mGwI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4819 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 19:13:49 -0800 X-UIDL: 483e436fa998f291149fabd18a8b3a17 > >start/stops, etc. I get to change programs on my ADA MP1, quadraverb, Kawai > >synth and even analog old pedals thru my rockman octopus - all useful, > >timesaving stuff for what i do - > > well, here's an example: On your guitar controller, if you play an > artificial harmonic, does the synth respond in some appropriate way? well, no - if i want harmonics, i mix in the straight guitar sound. Let me start by saying (without even me reading further)- that i'm one of those guitarists who just deals with the reality of what it is. For instance, do you have the Buzz Feiten retrofit on all your axes?? If not, then from his perspective, and it's many adherents, your guitars aren't really in tune, etc, etc., and so you're limited by that. But - of course, from another perspective, you're not limited at all. Just as a poor kid on some island with a crappy guitar with strings a mile off the neck isn't limited if (s)he is happy with the creative level that can be reached. I use the technology at the level it's at - and i STILL just scratch the surface.. When you apply different types of mute techniques, does anything change in the > synth patch? actually, yes - on some patches - the casio is the only synth controller i've used that is very dynamics-sensitive. So such technique tweaks translate in various subtle ways. What if you pick near the bridge, or use the flesh of your > thumb instead of a pick. Or pick near the bridge. Anything? nope. Most of > the expressive control over a sound that a guitar gives you is lost, You're absolutely right. But - again - i happen to be totally cool with that. Others may not be. I TOTALLY respect that view. But for guitar-type expressiveness, bingo - i use the straight good ol analog guitar, processing optional. and about all you have left is pitch and 128 volume levels. My casio does great bending, on non-percussive sounds, and again, beautiful dynamic response. I create a lot of looped percussion, where i trigger log drums bells, etc, and i use many different volume levels, tantamount to playing these instruments with a drumstick, etc, and being able to hit at varying velocities - very soft, soft, med, hard, harder, etc. Now realize: modern synthesizers are quite capable of providing huge and subtle varieties over > the timbre of a sound. Modern sensor tehcnology is readily able to detect > all of the things you are doing on a guitar string. But when you try to > send all of that information from your musical and expressive controller to > your musical and expressive synth, you totally swamp midi. And one could argue that - every electromagnetic nuance of a plucked string on the best Les Paul or PRS is Not accurately reflected by even the best pickups. It depends on the level of resolution you want to go to. It reminds me of a recent thread on MD vs DAT vs CD vs Cassette vs Reality. It matters not. If you're happy with what ya got - it rules!! Make music. I'm not assuming at all that - you're like this, Kim, but invariably - when i;m in a music store and someone's trying out a guitar synth (usually the rolands) - they are trying to strum open chords, on a piano patch, or play Yngwie style with a marimba patch or a Tangerine Dream type sweeping sound..... It always sounds like crap, and they almost always put the axe down in disgust, with them and their friends muttering about how much gtrsynth sucks, etc. Bummer. It only means i'll always be able to get this crap for cheap when it doesn't sell! It can't handle> all the control data. It's incredibly slow, even by standards at the time > it was created in 1981. Also, it's "description language" for describing musical events is terribly shortsighted and limited. (it was only ever intended for a piano key trigger to start a simple synth sound). I'd have to say you're skipping past some significant midi advances over the years since 1983. It does quite a bit more than that.... >>The right words just aren't there to describe most types of musical events. ..again, this is totally subjective. For example, i'm sure we could find a classical guitarist, or an african kora master, or a 50 year student of the sarod or sitar, any of whom would say that all amplified instruments are limited, and do not accurately translate the 'soul' of the music. And - they'd be right, from their perspective, as you are from yours. But - would this indict the entire concept of amplified instruments??? No. > In the world of modern instrument design, midi is the bottleneck, and has > been for years. That's harsh. Are you willing to say that Peter Gabriel, Vernon Reid, Laurie Anderson, Dave VanTieghem, Jaron Lanier, Allan Holdsworth, Devo, and tons of others i can't think of right now haven't done incredibly creative things with MIDI ??? It's all about integrating it into the rest of your vibe. You seem real bothered that MIDI even exists ! >>That is why you so rarely see innovative new electronic instruments, and why the ones you do see are so rarely satisfying.Midi has been the immovable object in the middle. Not so, in my humble opinion. You don't see the innovative instruments beacuse the economics aren't there to support their production/distrubution on a wide scale. What about the Korg WaveDrum, or the Samchillian Tip Tip Tip Cheeepeee (a very weird, cool, interactive midi controller designed by Leon Gruenbaum, who plays on Vernon Reid's solo CD and in his band). Or how about the new MIDI - Theremin that Bob Moog has come up with ?? And there's tons more that i and you have never heard of (and won't). Korg, Roland, Kawai, Yamaha, have to see big numbers before they'll get behind something 'weird'. - so they wont' do it. What you're saying is tantamount to asking "..why do we rarely see innovative new music.." well - yes - never in the mainstream, because of $$$$. same thing here. Let me remind you that Casio killed production on it's CZ 101 synth - due to poor sales from their perspective. Yet in the synth world - it broke all sales records, and was a monster hit (and is still a pretty prized little synth). But to giant watch and cheesy keyboard manufacturer Casio - these numbers didn't translate. So they killed it. I think this is teh dynamic that prevents us from seeing "innovative new electronic instruments", not the existence of MIDI !! I'm totally on your side, i just disagree as to the reasons. > for simple uses, midi is fine. It serves some purposes well. But in many > ways, its a thing where you don't know what you are missing, because you've > never been able to try it. but what you ARE able to do is often awesome!! > > As far as a network design, midi is just stupid. It's unidirectional, so is the audio-signal traveling along a guitar cable, which, to be fair, is what you started the comparison on. Again, you seem inordinately bugged by an inanimate protocol - just don't use it. > it's topology leaves you with at mass of wires everywhere, addressing events on > any particular device is clumsy and difficult, really?? again, i seem to have missed all these problems. I have one midi cable from guitar to footpedal. One cable from footpedal to preamp. Then, one short "thru" cable between each of the following - the preamp, synth1, delay, sampler, synth2. With a simple patch on my Mitigator (many other devices can do this too), i can send dozens of individual commands to different devices on different channels. Before you calculate some kind of minute delay problems, remember, for practical purposes - that means a couple of delay units, a quadraverb or two, changing a patch on 2 or 3 synths, etc. All simultaneously, all thru midi. With 16 channels, unless you're trying to control an entire 64 track automated studio and all it's outboard gear, there's no problem and you always end up with > device B that can't talk to device A without rewiring everything. I'm really sorry this has been your experience. All MIDI requires is a little patience and some channel calibrations. Every MIDI device has an implementation chart in it's manual, which clearly shows all the stuff it can recieve/send. You go from there. The list goes on, and there are others who have expressed it much better than I. I > think there are places on the web you can find if you care. Please point me to some, so i can see what devices they have had such a bad time with. > > As far as loop specific problems, we would ideally want the capability to > transmit audio data along with control information, in real time. We would > also want the ability to easily define a loop oriented control language, who's we?? have you taken a poll on this??? Not trying to be flippant, i really like your ideas, Kim, and you've been a great help to me many times, but i think on this MIDI stuff, you're kinda off base. Why should we be looking for it to do ANYTHING we dream?? - Why not require fretless sounds out of a fretted guitar. Explain to me how that would be different from most of what you're demanding of MIDI. It does what it does, it's implementation has been improved thru the years, and you use it to it's limits, which i challenge you to find me someone who really has. - No - i don't mean someone who has become frustrated because MIDI doesn't do what they WANT it to do, but someone who has exhausted everything that midi CAN do.... > rather than forcing keyboard commands to do it or spending 6 years in > committee meetings at the MMA. These things are beyond midi, So, blame midi. That's like saying - "Language doesn't accurately decribe the emotion of Love - so Language sucks" No! - Language does what it does, and can never duplicate the look in a lover's eyes or a soft touch or a wordless murmur, etc., all of which transmit the feeling of "love" . I hope you see my metaphor. Anyway - i hope this discussion continues - please don't take any of this in anger, i mean only to provide a different perspective on this issue, and i know i'm in the "minority" here as a synth-guitarist. Peace thru music, however it's made!!! Andre' From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:11:26 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 19:51:09 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKb1v-00011m-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 19:51:07 -0800 Message-ID: <35230A76.6D84@bgnet.bgsu.edu> Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 22:48:06 -0500 From: Jeff Schwartz X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Cheap, fun synth References: <199804020309.WAA02882@shell.monmouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"X4lfDD.A.3h.IpwI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4820 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 19:51:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 8dadc2813bb99448c941abe40b7b98e3 I've had this gizmo about a month and finally used it on a gig, so I thought I'd report to y'all. I am refering to the Boss SYB-3 Bass Synthesizer pedal. Some freak at Roland put an oscillator and an envelope filter in a stompbox. No special pickup is required-tracking is OK on guitar & bass. Oddly, it covers the same range on both-the bottom 2 1/2 octaves. If you play more than one note at once it warbles interestingly, much like a Whammy pedal. I ran the SYB-3 into the Whammy to increase its range and it sounds pretty good with the 1 or 2 octave up settings. I haven't run anything except guitar and bass through it, but I bet miked horns or vocals could produce some pretty sick sounds. There have been reviews in Guitar Player & Bass Player that give details of the features, so I just thought I'd give my account of using it. It's very cool for getting some basic analog synth sounds, especially on the 70s P-Funk tip. The wave shape modes get a neat fuzz sound-like overdriving a 4-track or a stereo. This and the T-wah mode work over the whole range. I was able to use the wave shape instead of an overdrive for leads & the t-wah sounded very cool on scratchy funk octaves. The envelope filter sounds better on the synth sounds than in the t-wah mode and, in that mode, kicks ass on every pedal filter I've heard except for the Lovetone Meatball. I got this gizmo for $160-money well spent. The main drawback is that its hard to adjust on stage. There's no memory-you just need to twist knobs and hope for the best. Also, the 7 synth modes are pretty similar except for the 2 that give an octave down and the three that mix noise into the sound-the sine, square, and sawtooth waves sound a lot alike. So, it doesn't have nearly the flexability of a low-end Moog or even an old Roland GR-300, but it's pretty fun... -- Jeff Schwartz jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:11:27 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 20:00:11 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKbAe-00020n-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 20:00:08 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKbAe-0001Wi-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 20:00:08 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKbAY-0001zy-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 20:00:02 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 19:59:52 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <485665f0.3522dd01@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: MIDI Matrix for sale--no loop content Resent-Message-ID: <"41docD.A.nbB.YxwI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4821 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 20:00:02 -0800 X-UIDL: b3a18cc6386973f596cc12ac7645e855 Drew, I'm interested in the Midi Matirx. Does it come with the Abacus foot controller? - Chris >Hello all, > >Please forgive the crass commercialism, but I thought someone here might be >interested in the Mesa/Boogie MIDI Matrix switcher I'm selling. > >For those who don't know, it's an integrated MIDI and guitar amp switching >device. It has 6 effects loops, and 8 function switches for controlling amp >functions like channel switching, fx loop on/off, etc. One of the effects >loops is can be set up to handle footpedals, which is pretty cool (you can >place your wah or phase shifter after the pre-amp in your signal chain, which >can give quite interesting results). This is a really great switcher, and it's >a Boogie, so it's built like a tank. It's in perfect condition, and I'm >selling it for $300. > >I'm also selling a Boogie Mk. IV head, a DOD 12 channel mixer, an old ART >Multiverb EXT digital fx box, a Tom Anderson American Classic electric >guitar....I should open a store. Email me at TritoneDW@aol.com if you're >interested in any of this stuff. Sorry this commercial was so long. > >Drew Wheeler From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 01:11:29 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 1 20:49:03 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKbvm-0006G3-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 20:48:50 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980402044439.00c29c30@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 20:44:39 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: MIDI problems ??? Resent-Message-ID: <"KDJBt.A.wcF.NfxI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4822 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 20:48:50 -0800 X-UIDL: ef8deae6c75d950f616bc83876353f1a heh, heh. Andre, you have far more energy for this than I do! If you are happy with what you have, great! But I think you largely missed my point, which is: The possiblity for incredible advances in the expressiveness and musicality electronic instruments could be here, if not for the unfortunate (and well documented by other people) limitations of midi. I spent a number of years in R&D labs working on early prototypes of such instruments, and I find it frustrating that they can't be enjoyed by the rest of the world. I hope that someday this will change, but that day will not come through acceptance of the status quo. If you want to learn some more about some midi alternatives and possible future musical networking technologies try these: the ZIPI home page (actually the "what happened to zipi home page"): http://cnmat.cnmat.berkeley.edu/ZIPI/ ZIPI docs published in the winter 1994 computer music journal: ftp://mitpress.mit.edu/pub/Computer-Music-Journal/Texts/ZIPI/ especially the one describing midi's limitations: ftp://mitpress.mit.edu/pub/Computer-Music-Journal/Texts/ZIPI/midi-comparison.t ZIPI's Music Parameter Description Language: http://cnmat.cnmat.berkeley.edu/ZIPI/mpdl.html cnmat's current efforts with Open Sound Control: http://cnmat.cnmat.berkeley.edu/OpenSoundControl/ and for kicks, microsoft's DirectMusic: http://www.microsoft.com/directx/pavilion/future/dmusic.htm kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 09:19:04 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 04:46:17 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKjNo-0007em-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 04:46:16 -0800 Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 02:12:22 -0600 From: John Pollock Subject: Re: Crisis!!!!!! To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <35234866.27A9@delphi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <01bd5d67$b13e32a0$df024382@pentium-200> Resent-Message-ID: <"ZSC4FB.A.R-G.Sg4I1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4824 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 04:46:16 -0800 X-UIDL: 115e7c16b2ca9710ba0da735fb535d5b Woehni wrote: > > Hi friends , I`ve got a major crisis on my hands. I`m gonna come right out > and say it: > > I`ve begun to get doubts about looping.................and I need some reassuring. > > The thing is , when I loop it doesn`t seem to go anywhere. I always get stuck in > the same tracks and the music sounds like.........looping. Sometimes my Jamman > can feel like a limitation , rather than a new colour on my (somewhat limited) canvas. Thomas, Clearly, you're just not cut out for looping. The only solution is for you to box up your JamMan and send it to me. ;-) Seriously, I'm frequently frustrated myself; perhaps even more so because my only looper (Vortex) offers less than two seconds of looping. Here are some things I do to relieve the frustration: (a) Go to http://ott-outreach.engin.umich.edu/torn/ and listen to the RealAudio excerpt of "each prince to his kingdom" for a reminder of how powerful even a very short loop can be. (b) Remember that I'm a human being first, a performer somewhat lower in the hierarchy, and a player of a particular instrument still lower. I have a fairly elaborate rig, but these days most of my musical energy is going into a beatup old flattop acoustic guitar, unplugged. All the other stuff can and will wait until I'm ready to get back to it. (c) Remind myself that, even if I decide looping is a complete waste of my time, _I've scratched the itch_. I don't have to wonder-- I _know_, because I've tried it. That alone is worth the price of my Vortex/your JamMan, even if they couldn't be resold at a handsome profit. (d) Note that I've been playing guitar for 37 years, harmonica longer than that, steel guitar for 25 years, synthesizers for more than ten-- and have just begun to scratch the surface of my own potential on any of them. Why should a looper be any different? I do have the rest of my life to try to get it right. (e) Repeat to myself: "It's the journey, not the destination... It's the journey, not the destination... It's the journey, not the destination... It's the journey, not the destination... It's the journey... " John Troubador Tech (http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/) From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 09:19:25 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 06:50:53 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKlKK-0007gB-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 06:50:48 -0800 Message-ID: <352350EB.7B24D75E@nyfac.com> Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 09:48:43 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Oblique Stategies References: <01BD5E0B.E8A3C4E0.mpeters@csi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dq9wvC.A.k2G.FU6I1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4827 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 06:50:48 -0800 X-UIDL: d9464b2092d5f7cf8085ab45e44490c4 This sight is great for those seeking inspirations. Something else to print and put on the rack... Trevor From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:27:13 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 10:18:20 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKoZ5-000786-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:18:15 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKoZ2-0007O0-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:18:12 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKoYv-00076j-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:18:05 -0800 Message-ID: <35235A4E.F6805425@nyfac.com> Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 10:28:46 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Pickups, accurate reproduction, Fred Frith again (was: MIDI problems ???) References: <199804020309.WAA02882@shell.monmouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"u-oCTD.A.5NF.mO9I1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4830 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:18:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 82b0f959281c6705b7a4cdfaf3e8be45 This is not another dating thread. > And one could argue that - every electromagnetic nuance of a plucked string > on the best Les Paul or PRS is Not accurately reflected by even the best > pickups. There are many of us that would say that this is a blessing, although a mixed blessing. I moved last weekend (I'll get to the point in a bit), and stripped down to only the barest possessions. For me that is. When I moved from Hoboken to Brooklyn, I managed to fill a 14 foot U-Haul truck almost to the top with all of my stuff: I had nine guitar amps, five guitars (real ones, not including the junkers I was kicking around, drilling holes in- more on these poor victimes later), a big ole rack of recording gear, and other less important stuff (you know, clothes, a bed, stuff like that). This last move, I was able to get everything a large Econoline van. One of the things that I was forced to do was finally give up on a lot of projects that I was working on- In particular, the Fred Frith neck pickup project. I would up giving this guy three of my junk guitars for him to turn into sculpture, along with about 15lbs of junked guitar parts I was saving, just incase I ever wanted to, I don't know, make my futon frame into a tune-able electric zither or something. Now that I have been forced to move into the dreaded singer/songwriter realm, I have tried to stop playing my electric unplugged, because nothing sounds the same plugged and unplugged. Rather than use a well designed, comfortable guitar like you Klein lovers out there, I have sold my Paul Reed Smith and my Custom Shop Les Paul, because I never played them- why? How can you resist the ol' Fender Jaguar (highly modified, of course). Who needs to stay in tune. Buzz Feiten would laugh his ass off if he played my guitar. The problem with the Jag is that the way it sounds plugged into and amp is completely different than the unplugged sounds. Don't laugh- I'm not talking about volume and tone controls here. Through the amp, you only hear the section of string between your fingers (or nut) and the bridge. Sitting in my bedroom at 4:00am, I here countermelodies from the strings between my fingers and the nut, as well as all those groovy sympathetic vibrations from the section of string between the bridge and the tremelo. Hence the Fred Frith Pickup Project. Mr. Frith has a pickup that he has clamped to the headstock of one of his guitars (so I am told) to get those string sounds between his fingers and the nut. BTW: Lee Renaldo had one of his Jazzmasters routed out between the bridge and trem so that he could install a pickup there. I guess it didn't work out very well as he has since taken it out. I had this one seriously abused plywood SG copy that I had routed out (chiseled out, actually) between the bridge and trem from the LR pickup idea. All it really did was give some kind of weird comb filtering and a few strongly resonent but otherwise not very interesting tones- I have since determined that I like the sound of the sympathetic vibrations to the real thing. I should have known that I wasn't going to get what I was hearing through my ears. I drove myself crazy for a LONG trime trying to get a sound out of my guitar that sounded like it did when I was unplugged. But I still haven't given up totally on the FF pickup project. With enough bow in your neck, you be playing with double hammer-ons and quadruple stops! Anybody try this out ever? Trevor Piezos in the bridge and nut might be kind of cool, harmonywise, but I hate the sound of those things...... From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 09:19:32 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 07:48:24 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKmDz-0004iQ-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 07:48:19 -0800 Message-ID: <35235E80.36226C0B@nyfac.com> Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 10:46:40 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Simulations and labor saving devices (was: Re: MIDI problems ??? References: <199804021229.AA16762@world.std.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"yB4o0B.A.sGE.NK7I1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4828 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 07:48:19 -0800 X-UIDL: e4545e32e633a97bc9cc086d5a85ad1e > I didn't reply to your other mail on this subject 'cause > I think we're off-topic, but while I'm here, I strongly > disagree with your definition of "modern synthesis > technology". The two mail-order catalogs I have > handy seem to have one or two "analog modelling" > synths, and all the rest are sample-playback. > Keyboard's NAMM report lists quite a few faux-analog > synths, but I don't remember seeing any of the "hot > synthesis techniques" you've listed (analog is hardly > new, it's just the digital emulation of it that is). I think the whole idea a digital synth trying to emulate an analog synth is laughable. It is not as if analog synths aren't easily and cheaply made. Right? Sean, are you comfortable playing with a keyboard? Or do you like the feel of how the guitar/midi thing controls it? Those rare times I have felt the need to record a synth sound (usually I just stack a few delay pedals, distortion, and an ebow) I just goofed around on a keyboard untill I could play the part. When I was an indentured servant at Sam Ass, Vernon Reid (name dropping!) came in and tried this new guitar midi converter out with me. It uses (used?) some kind of fuzzy logic sort of thing, and was supposed to be really fast. This was back in my Coleman/Coltrane days, with big wide intervals, tritones, and (for me) lots o' speed. [For those of you who are concerned, I sought professional help, and I am feeling much better now]. Anyway, the damn thing sputtered and hiccupped, and generally made a mess of things. Funny thing was, Vernon (far better faster cooler- although much, much shorter than me) had the think working pretty well. I could never figure it out. I read in an interview with Andy Summers where he slagged the whole midi thing. He said something along the lines of 'If you want to sound like a harmonica, learn to play a harmonica'. I think that might be a bit close minded, but It has always been easier for me to learn how to play the real thing than its emulations. I had a drum machine for about three years before I had regular access to a drum kit- in six months, I was twice as good at the real thing than on the machine (except for the timing thing- oops!). I still can't program the damned thing worth a fart, even now. Trevor From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 09:19:13 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 05:36:37 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKkAV-0002l4-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 05:36:35 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 07:29:16 -0500 From: buzzard@world.std.com (Sean T Barrett) Message-Id: <199804021229.AA16762@world.std.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: MIDI problems ??? Resent-Message-ID: <"FFsJvB.A.sUC.AP5I1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4826 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 05:36:35 -0800 X-UIDL: f0887bd2312350d0acc098640a73dba0 >If you want to learn some more about some midi alternatives and possible >future musical networking technologies try these: > >the ZIPI home page (actually the "what happened to zipi home page"): > http://cnmat.cnmat.berkeley.edu/ZIPI/ I still disagree with you, Kim. The good parts of ZIPI are its support for per-note effects and its performance; as I said before, transmit MIDI over some faster physical link, and multiplex it for more channels, and you've got all that. (Just send every note on its own channel.) [Ok, ZIPI's approach to pitches is a lot better.] Most of the rest of ZIPI seems poorly thought out to me. Odd/Even harmonic content? Isn't that a little overly specific? In general, ZIPI seemed obsessed with what I could characterize as: measure some quality at the controller, transmit that quality over the network, allow the receiver to determine how to reproduce that quality. That sounds totally _wrong_ to me. In reality, different sound sources are going to have different abilities. You _have_ to remap from one quality on the controller to a different quality on a sound source. In fact, this can be an enormous source of creativity. Given that you have to remap, and given that every controller provides special things, why even waste your time on "odd/even harmonic content"? Do like MIDI continuous controllers-- a large set of entirely unnamed "qualities", and then manufacturers evolve over time a common set of _controllable_ properties. The drive to "name" the qualities comes from the sound _sources_, not the controllers. Then the controller measures the qualities in the performance and determines how to remap that onto the known set of things. As far as I know, this works in MIDI. Of course MIDI is broken in terms of per-note things, and continuous versus just-at-note-start things; I just mean the notion of which-side-of-the-system is responsible for "defining" what qualities of sounds are "interesting". But none of the ZIPI docs seemed to provide a rationale for shifting this remapping onto the receiver, away from the controller. I didn't reply to your other mail on this subject 'cause I think we're off-topic, but while I'm here, I strongly disagree with your definition of "modern synthesis technology". The two mail-order catalogs I have handy seem to have one or two "analog modelling" synths, and all the rest are sample-playback. Keyboard's NAMM report lists quite a few faux-analog synths, but I don't remember seeing any of the "hot synthesis techniques" you've listed (analog is hardly new, it's just the digital emulation of it that is). Those things may be the bleeding edge in sound technology, and if that's what you really meant, that's fine. I thought you were saying the average everyday "modern synth" had all this capability nobody was touching because of MIDI. If you're saying instead that MIDI is crippling the ability to do newer next-generation synths... well, you're just bemoaning the fact that technological innovation is difficult in this industry, and I still tend to think that's not 'cause of MIDI, but because of the economic incentive to stick to the things everybody already knows (which we've already talked about to death as well). Sean From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:28:41 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 22:59:12 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yL0RS-0005ZL-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:59:10 -0800 Message-ID: <01BD5E48.0D043E00.andrew@bocs.com> From: andrew Reply-To: "andrew@no_spambocs.co.com" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Crisis!!!!!! Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:00:16 +0100 Organization: bocs X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2ARu-B.A.-8E.dgIJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4843 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:59:10 -0800 X-UIDL: c31b19abfaecba7bf467ae5369dc5432 I'd really recommend reading dt's aritcle from GP (it's reprinted... somewhere..) somewhere here :-- http://ott-outreach.engin.umich.edu/torn/ Andrew From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 09:19:43 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 08:28:35 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKmqr-0000p4-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 08:28:29 -0800 Message-ID: <3523BE42.A53398B6@mailbox.syr.edu> Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 11:35:13 -0500 From: mark sottilaro Reply-To: msottila@mailbox.syr.edu Organization: metaliminal X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: 0-xing. Syracuse loop show. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"SwUdJ.A.nQH.Vs7I1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4829 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 08:28:29 -0800 X-UIDL: fedad6f8bf520cb6faa11eefa133edef Hey all, My ambient (illbient?)/dance/electronica/sound collage project "Zero Crossing" will be performing at Zopie's Cafe in Syracuse NY on April 9th @ 10:00pm. Any in the area are welcome to attend. It's free, and we're putting together a wacky "last supper" theme in honor of Holy thursday. If anyone happens to see Peter Gabriel, tell him to call me. ;-p -- Mark Sottilaro http://web.syr.edu/~msottila "I know who you are baby I've seen you go into that meditative state You're the snake charmer, baby and you're also a snake You're a closed circuit... --Laurie Anderson From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:27:24 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 11:50:25 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKq0E-0002z3-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 11:50:22 -0800 Message-Id: <199804021941.OAA11906@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Re: MIDI problems ??? Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:40:57 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3aYNuB.A.n3B.1o-I1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4831 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 11:50:22 -0800 X-UIDL: b7869303432257fec4429a14178fd796 > > heh, heh. Andre, you have far more energy for this than I do! spirulina, it even looks like a little green LOOP > > If you are happy with what you have, great! But I think you largely missed > my point, which is: > > The possiblity for incredible advances in the expressiveness and musicality > electronic instruments could be here, but no matter how far we go, someone will always point to the horizon and say - "We could be over there, if only..." >if not for the unfortunate (and well documented by other people) limitations of midi. I spent a number of years > in R&D labs working on early prototypes of such instruments, and I find it frustrating that they can't be enjoyed by the >rest of the world. and i think i addressed this - in the 'economic vs. reality' part of my screed.. it's been shown that most guitar cables filter out all kinds of cool frequencies from our signals - should we all be using $45 gold tip cables? Music. Music. >I hope that someday this will change, but that day will not come through acceptance of the status quo. > > > If you want to learn some more about some midi alternatives and possible > future musical networking technologies try these: > and thanks for the great links and the fine dialog. I'm gonna go loop with my *new* addition - a 10 year old Kawai MX8BR 8channel mixer....wow -what a difference it makes for me!!! yippeee!!! (or, rather - Zipppeee!!!) peace thru music andre' From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:27:28 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 12:16:25 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKqPO-0005zj-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:16:22 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKqPJ-0005K3-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:16:17 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKqPB-0005yA-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:16:09 -0800 Message-Id: <199804021951.OAA16274@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: DT's studio Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:51:28 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LOWcYB.A.8tE.C_-I1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4832 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:16:09 -0800 X-UIDL: f83f7b1bb783c0bd43a76ac8165ec07a hey can anyone tell me which issue of Musician had the home studio feature on DT's studio ???? it was in the last 3 years or so... help, andre' From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:27:30 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 12:33:56 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKqgM-0000Hz-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:33:54 -0800 X-From_:lwordsman@pirnie.com Thu Apr 02 12:33:51 1998 Received: from mail-whi.pirnie.com (mail-whi.malcolmpirnie.com) [207.93.215.211] by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKqgH-0000FA-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:33:49 -0800 Received: from Pirnie.com ([10.1.2.27]) by mail-whi.malcolmpirnie.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id 245 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:46:11 -0500 Message-ID: <3523F5A3.8D2CADC6@Pirnie.com> Old-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 15:31:32 -0500 From: "Lee Wordsman" Reply-To: Lwordsman@Pirnie.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: (no subject) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Diagnostic: undecipherable, help sent X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight Sender: SmartList Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:33:54 -0800 X-UIDL: 32bc2b1c69732a0ee881ffcf6071929c I need to unsubscribe for a few weeks and loopers delight is down. Can anyone repost the address that you should email to with the unsubscribe message in the subject and body. Thanks in Advance. From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:27:33 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 12:52:10 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKqxp-0002a9-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:51:57 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKqxl-0007Ba-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:51:53 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKqxZ-0002Xl-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:51:41 -0800 Message-ID: <3523F7F5.1D26@isrv.com> Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 15:42:00 -0500 From: Glenn Greenway X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: JamMan Delay Mode References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Tzn_7B.A.5UB.Qh_I1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4833 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:51:41 -0800 X-UIDL: a79b91d919f2d826e39aa91241b1831a Hello again: To the folks who offered suggestions, thanks. The pan pedal idea sounds great but I've got to use the JamMan in my Marshall's effect loop, not out front. I tried an A/B pedal between the Marshall's out and the JamMan's in and then summing the JamMan's 'A' out and the dry 'B' out with a Y cable. Sounds like an easy solution, right? Wrong. As long as the JamMan is connected this way the output of the Y cable is almost all 'A' and almost no 'B'. Sounds like sound kind of esoteric impedence problem but I'm pretty simple. I'm pretty sure all components are working properly, but its hard to be certain. Any further suggestions are really appreciated. Glenn From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:27:34 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 13:00:29 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKr5x-0003eq-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:00:21 -0800 From: Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com Date: Thu, 02 Apr 98 15:53:31 EST Encoding: 14 Text Message-Id: <9803028915.AA891561591@mail.amsinc.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Any experimental Venues in NJ? Resent-Message-ID: <"OKuXb.A.lOC.So_I1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4834 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:00:21 -0800 X-UIDL: 43cf093f7b57a26988652e2335a1ee59 Hi all, I'm setting up a tour with my experimental duo project "Spin-17" and was wondering if anybody might know of a way (place, contact, etc..) for us to do a show in NJ? The music is improv-based and uses clarinet, guitar, turntables, electronics, voice and toys. It's not necessarily "loop-based", though once in awhileawhileawhile.... I hate to compare but we "sound like" Stockhausen vs. Pizzicato 5 vs. Squarepusher vs. John Zorn vs. John Cage vs. Negativland. All we're looking for is a little gas money and roof and a few enthusiastically open ears. In any case, thanks for any help... ed chang edward_chang@mail.amsinc.com (212) 253-6214 From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:27:44 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 14:21:32 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKsMK-0005bQ-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:21:20 -0800 From: Marzzz Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 17:09:32 EST To: andre@monmouth.com, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: DT's studio Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Resent-Message-ID: <"7_SZND.A.tXE.p2AJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4835 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:21:21 -0800 X-UIDL: 80ada502463e2cfc5eadc83e2038b4aa In a message dated 4/2/98 2:21:33 PM, Andre wrote: >can anyone tell me which issue of Musician had the home studio feature on >DT's studio ???? it was in the last 3 years or so... March 97, page 82. Marshall From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:27:45 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 14:37:10 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKsba-0007eI-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:37:06 -0800 Message-ID: <011201bd5e86$e4280ae0$7df2ffd0@default> From: "future perfect" To: Subject: Re: DT's studio Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 17:30:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"HcF24C.A.zGG.AEBJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4836 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:37:06 -0800 X-UIDL: 557c63c96f1783b9ea19e20a023f7626 Anyone who has that issue that has acess to a scanner (and is very generous) wanna scan it for me? Pretty please? Dave Eichenberger ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - art music - visit our website at: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 > >In a message dated 4/2/98 2:21:33 PM, Andre wrote: > >>can anyone tell me which issue of Musician had the home studio feature on >>DT's studio ???? it was in the last 3 years or so... > >March 97, page 82. > > >Marshall > From ???@??? Thu Apr 02 09:19:06 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 05:08:22 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKjjA-00019Y-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 05:08:20 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980402144920.1def9a2c@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 14:49:20 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." Subject: Re: Crisis!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <35234866.27A9@delphi.com> References: <01bd5d67$b13e32a0$df024382@pentium-200> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"gaDHSC.A.R2.w04I1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4825 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 05:08:20 -0800 X-UIDL: fa6d3670268703bf0229722bc90fff06 Thomas: > Hi friends , I`ve got a major crisis on my hands. I`m gonna come right out > and say it: I`ve begun to get doubts about looping.................and I need > some reassuring. > > The thing is , when I loop it doesn`t seem to go anywhere. I always get >stuck in the same tracks and the music sounds like.........looping. >Sometimes my Jamman can feel like a limitation , rather than a new colour >on my (somewhat limited) canvas. Now Thomas (et al), this may seem harsh, but I too have experiemced this situation and after careful thought put it down to my own playing. In this respect, I found Dave Torn's advice (thanks DT!) most helpful - "looping is your plating, but more of it". When I always sounded the same, I realised it was because my _playing_ always sounded the same. So it gave me an opportunity to take my playing apart, to find new ways of playing. It broadened my ears, so to speak. I'd really recommend reading dt's aritcle from GP (it's reprinted... somewhere..) which has absolutely to advice for these problems. My fave? "Q. How do I stop my loops sounding like other people's? A. Stop playing like other people." Michael From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:27:49 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 15:22:01 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKtIz-0005NG-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:21:57 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 17:11:24 -0600 (CST) From: John Roseborough X-Sender: jrose@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: MIDI problems ??? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980402164934.0098b2f0@mail.purity.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ZQ51UD.A.g4D.JtBJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4837 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:21:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 813301294dede265579a2455b0877320 Kim, thanks for that Microsoft pointer - I nearly fell out of my chair laughing! >From http://www.microsoft.com/directx/pavilion/future/dmusic.htm (see the heading "Use Interactive Music to Add Life"): "Repetition is lifeless. Repetition is boring. Repetition is dismal. The variable nature of DirectMusic provides you with welcome relief from that short clip of music that loops over and over and over. In the same way graphics typically follow the user's influence, you can create music that parallels the action of the story with subtle changes of patterns, textures, colors, harmonies, volume, and tempo." John > Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 20:44:39 -0800 > From: Kim Flint > Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Subject: Re: MIDI problems ??? > Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 20:50:57 -0800 > Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Resent-To: jrose@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu [SNIP] > and for kicks, microsoft's DirectMusic: > http://www.microsoft.com/directx/pavilion/future/dmusic.htm > > > kim > ________________________________________________________ > Kim Flint 408-752-9284 > Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com > Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:28:00 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 16:36:15 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKuSg-0006cH-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 16:36:03 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:17:00 -0500 (EST) From: Apple-O To: Apple-O Subject: live music saturday @ nyc Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"0rOum.A.qwE.BwCJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4840 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 16:36:03 -0800 X-UIDL: 5ec7cb7fd50f1952329bbc2dbda83d01 We are playing Saturday night in NYC... untld_snd = untitled sound = rythmaticsoundscapexperiments Jennifer Ermler Jim McGinnis Chad Wetherbee ++special guests++ Swar Apple-O plus DJ's Suit and Cruz Missle on the 12's Saturday April 4th...$5 9-9:30 dj 9:30-11 set 1 (3-piece lineup) 11-11:30 dj 11:30-1am (5-piece lineup) it's Step-In at the Cornelia St. Cafe it's in the West Village, off w 4th st. between 6th and 7th aves... From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:27:57 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 15:52:21 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKtmL-0001Km-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:52:17 -0800 Message-Id: <199804022339.SAA04488@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Re: Any experimental Venues in NJ? Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:39:26 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MBrkPB.A.uSH.cICJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4838 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:52:17 -0800 X-UIDL: af71ffa98de75ec8e30fcaaa1eb17786 > > Hi all, > > I'm setting up a tour with my experimental duo project "Spin-17" and was > wondering if anybody might know of a way (place, contact, etc..) for us to do a > show in NJ? The music is improv-based and uses clarinet, guitar, turntables, hey Ed... a few places spring to mind for me, having not ventured too far around NJ for this kinda stuff - the saint - where my duo JFK's LSD UFO (sneaky plugg) is gonna be this week, is friendly to doing a "weird nite" ever so often. we've been ther with buckethead and bon lozaga before, i've also done gigs there with bon lozaga and mike keneally. so - they are willing to take a chance here & there. the main phn number is 732-775-9144, Listen to the message for what to do re: booking. and you can certainly say "andre put me in touch", i know scott well sometimes the court tavern will go out on a limb - they are in the college town of new brunswick, that helps. their booking # is 732-545-3969. Get in touch with Princeton radio station WPRB - (609-258-3655) they have an electronic/experimental music show which would help for exposure, also someone there might be able to help for shows in the princeton area. Of course WFMU ( http://www.wprb.org ) is a great resource, they have bands play live on the air fr. time to time.. it's a totally free form, listener supported radio station.. of course you can private email me - i'll do what i can to help with any of the above. peaceloops andre' From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:27:59 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 15:59:16 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKtt2-0002Dc-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:59:12 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:40:14 -0500 From: R & T Cummings Subject: Re: Cheap, fun synth Sender: R & T Cummings To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199804021840_MC2-38CE-2B27@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Resent-Message-ID: <"orNgkC.A.Yu.sOCJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4839 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:59:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 5c09bc3f1adf3c8f0932758f543a054a Jeff Schwartz wrote: >I've had this gizmo about a month and finally used it on a >gig, so I thought I'd report to y'all. >I am refering to the Boss SYB-3 Bass Synthesizer pedal. < You're right, that little pedal does pack a good amount of fun for the money. Three of my bandmates have one and they like to run things like hand-driven coffee grinder and drum machine outputs through it ... The contrabass player complains about the tracking being too slow, though. Rob From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:28:00 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 17:09:31 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKuyw-000301-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 17:09:22 -0800 Message-ID: <19980403010351.24127.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [204.74.108.99] From: "Joseph Buck" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: MIDI problems ??? (fwd) Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 17:03:50 PST Resent-Message-ID: <"XNFC9B.A.WUC.0WDJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4841 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 17:09:22 -0800 X-UIDL: 5bf81a5d2777d196cb8295c0a9548891 As an aside- what the hell is this? A Koan generative ripoff? B >Kim, thanks for that Microsoft pointer - I nearly fell out of my chair >laughing! > >From http://www.microsoft.com/directx/pavilion/future/dmusic.htm >(see the heading "Use Interactive Music to Add Life"): > > "Repetition is lifeless. Repetition is boring. Repetition is dismal. The > variable nature of DirectMusic provides you with welcome relief from > that short clip of music that loops over and over and over. In the same > way graphics typically follow the user's influence, you can create music > that parallels the action of the story with subtle changes of patterns, > textures, colors, harmonies, volume, and tempo." > >John > > >> Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 20:44:39 -0800 >> From: Kim Flint >> Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >> Subject: Re: MIDI problems ??? >> Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 20:50:57 -0800 >> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com >> Resent-To: jrose@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu > >[SNIP] > >> and for kicks, microsoft's DirectMusic: >> http://www.microsoft.com/directx/pavilion/future/dmusic.htm >> >> >> kim >> ________________________________________________________ >> Kim Flint 408-752-9284 >> Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com >> Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com > > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 00:28:25 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 2 19:25:20 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKx6Q-0002RU-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 19:25:14 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKx6O-0002Yq-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 19:25:12 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKx6H-0002QM-00; Thu, 2 Apr 1998 19:25:05 -0800 Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:19:19 -0500 (EST) From: Adam Levin To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: The DAP Revolution Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"0d4AND.A.uuB.9VFJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4842 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 19:25:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 354be3a0f3522dd632d942e61c3bf6ae On the night of Saturday April 11th, The Dark Aether Project will venture forth from our home base in Baltimore, Maryland with our weapons of musical destruction in hand to conquer the southern New Jersey/Philadelphia area by might of Stick, Guitar and Drums. The Revolution will NOT be televised! ...but, if you tune to The Gagliarchives on WBZC 88.9 FM from 10pm-2am you can hear the waves of Dark Aether flowing forth from your radio. We will be playing live in the studio, chatting with host Tom Gagliardi and spinning some tunes, so if you are in the area, tune in! Also, If you're in the vicinity of Baltimore, Maryland on Thursday night, April 16th, come see us live with the heavy instrumental fusion of Uncle Gut at E.J. Bugs at 702 South Broadway Street. Showtime is 9pm. No cover! As always, we'll have our debut CD on sale at our low concert price of $10. If you can't make the show, you can purchase it via Wayside Music, Laser's Edge and ZNR mail order or in person from our good friend Chris Lamka at Of Sound Mind in Savage, Maryland. -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t http://www.ari.net/prog/bands/dap/ From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 10:18:27 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 07:46:02 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yL8fH-0000PF-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 07:45:59 -0800 Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 00:41:42 -0600 From: John Pollock Subject: Re: MIDI problems ??? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <352484A6.1E44@delphi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"iHTTbB.A.kFH.HMQJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4848 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 07:45:59 -0800 X-UIDL: 7259fc9e25afecd70d962430a595db10 andre wrote > and > > >, and Kim wrote > >, and it's all well worth reading, but I snipped it all to say: You're both absolutely right! MIDI _is_ a horrible protocol, and it _does_ let us do things that just aren't possible any other way. Andre: Shhhhhhhhh... please don't tell everyone how wonderful Casio MIDI guitars are. I only have three, and I'm not sure that's a lifetime supply. Let me find a couple more cheap before you go trumpeting the gospel and driving the price up, OK? ;-) Nah, it's just us: Might as well tell the _whole_ story: Casio killed production on it's CZ 101 synth-- and its sistren, the CZ-1000, -3000, -5000, and CZ-1-- _not_ due to poor sales, but because the company had built an incredible line of better mousetraps: --The VZ-1 keyboard, VZ-10M rackmount, and VZ-8M rackmount (optimized for MIDI guitar, digital horn, and specialized keyboard uses) synthesizers. Casio called the synthesis process "phase distortion," but make no mistake about it, kiddies-- this is FM better than Yamaha did it, renamed to avoid infringing Yamaha's license of the Chowning patents, but with eight "modules" to Yamaha's four or six "operators," and _eight-stage_ envelopes (a carryover from the CZ series-- yes!) when no one else offered more than five. --The FZ-1 keyboard, FZ-10M rackmount, and FZ-20M rackmount (with HD provision, though the specifics escape me) samplers. Sixteen-bit when the state of the art in the price class was twelve-bit, and with a limited but powerful 48-partial _additive synthesis_ capability built in (a feature elsewhere available in the under $10,000 range only in the Kawaii K5 and K5m, which lacked sampling capability). --The MG-500 and MG-510 MIDI guitars, and PG-300, -310, and -380 MIDI guitars with built-in preset synthesizers. The first (and until this year, _only_) MIDI guitars with the pitch to MIDI converter built into the instrument-- no need for a separate rack or floor unit, or an expensive and hard to find multiconductor cable. Also, the guitars themselves are outstanding even without the MIDI and synth features. --The DH-100 Digital Horn. I know little about this unit, except that it was a hell of a lot less expensive than the Akai and Yamaha units. So, Casio built better mousetraps... and the world beat a path to the doors of Sam Ash, and that store in suburban Milwaukee whose name escapes me at the moment, and a few other retailers who sold these better mousetraps at 40% of list price or less, after Casio discontinued them. See, we've looped back to the JamMan/Vortex marketing thread of last year... are you delighted? My take on the Casio pro-instrument marketing failure is: What marketing? In the three years from introduction to official discontinuation of the product line, I, a religious reader of _Guitar Player_ in those days, saw exactly _two_ ads for the MIDI guitars, featuring their _only_ high-profile endorser: [Are they ready for this? Naw, it's too gruesome... I'll hate myself in the morning... but I'll do it:] Stanley Jordan. I can't prove this, but I strongly suspect Casio was a victim of its own huge success in the home keyboard/toy instrument market. Confronted with instruments bearing the Casio name but professional-instrument prices, I'm guessing most potential customers just didn't take them seriously-- and Casio apparently didn't perceive a need to overcome this misperception until it was too late, if then. Sure, I want something better than MIDI. To be very specific, I want a guitar-pitch-to-MIDI's-vastly-superior-successor converter which will (a) replace the trem block in a Strat-type guitar, or fit inside an acoustic or semi-hollowbody, with no drilling; (b) contain its own internal power, good for 15 years; (c) incorporate an EMI/RFI-proof wireless system, including a similarly-sized and powered receiver; (d) be downwardly compatible with MIDI; (e) retail for $250.00 MSRP. Meantime, I've still barely scratched the surface of the possibilites of the CZ-101 I bought more than ten years ago... let alone the possibilites of the MG-510 (or PG-380) with VZ-8M and MIDI pedal keyboard with second VZ-8M which constitute my main rig. Yet those scratches have vastly enriched my life, taking me to places (geographical as well as musical) I could never have gone otherwise. Yes, MIDI's been good to me. :-) John Troubador Tech (http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/) From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 10:17:46 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 05:09:02 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yL6DL-0003r4-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 05:08:59 -0800 Message-Id: Subject: selling jamman and other toys: no loop Date: Fri, 3 Apr 98 08:07:20 -0000 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Phil Diem To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"Y5O5rB.A.aUD.N7NJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4844 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 05:08:59 -0800 X-UIDL: 8903fa5b7f2a84316096426dd0a83bbe selling the following loop related toys: jamman asi sustainiac guitar digitech ips 33b pitch shifter/harmonizer fostex 8 channel 4 buss mixer anyone interested can email me privately pdiem@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu sorry for the commercial interuption, we now resume our regular programming... pj From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 10:18:03 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 06:17:59 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yL7Hy-0000Ip-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 06:17:50 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yL7Hx-0000Ld-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 06:17:49 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yL7Hh-0000Gp-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 06:17:33 -0800 From: ANET Message-ID: <8a2e2a67.3524ee61@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:12:46 EST To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: selling jamman and other toys: no loop Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"cK7AZ.A.aIH.e6OJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4845 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 06:17:33 -0800 X-UIDL: 2d9269d0d47cb425b31ba23775165617 Phil, I'll buy the jamman, how much and where do I send the money. From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 10:18:22 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 07:36:13 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yL8Vo-00073l-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 07:36:12 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yL7Ue-0000uU-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 06:30:56 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yL7UZ-0001Od-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 06:30:51 -0800 From: ANET Message-ID: <1570ae54.3524f196@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:26:27 EST To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: selling jamman and other toys: no loop Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"x9BHe.A.J9.YHPJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4846 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 06:30:51 -0800 X-UIDL: 00c9228eac88befc0c21a696e4724b34 Phil, give me a call 507-634-4486, I'll be home this morning. Tnx; Regards; John Peters 3rd CD Project Page From ???@??? Fri Apr 03 10:18:05 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 06:39:35 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yL7cz-0002Fz-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 06:39:33 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:36:32 -0500 From: buzzard@world.std.com (Sean T Barrett) Message-Id: <199804031436.AA08967@world.std.com> To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: simulations, instruments, and music (very long) References: <199804021229.AA16762@world.std.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"h4L7bD.A.G1B.3PPJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4847 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 06:39:33 -0800 X-UIDL: 4533d477261b05c6ebe29b95d162270a Trevor wrote: >Sean, are you comfortable playing with a keyboard? Or do you like the feel >of how the guitar/midi thing controls it? Those rare times I have felt the >need to record a synth sound (usually I just stack a few delay pedals, >distortion, and an ebow) I just goofed around on a keyboard untill I could >play the part. Yeah, I'm a guitarist, but I've played keyboards on my recordings. (Heck, I've played keyboard solos. I've even played _better_ keyboard solos than guitar solos--however, at the time, I had to transpose the keyboard so I could solo in C :) >I read in an interview with Andy Summers where he slagged the whole midi >thing. He said something along the lines of 'If you want to sound like a >harmonica, learn to play a harmonica'. I think that might be a bit close >minded, but It has always been easier for me to learn how to play the real >thing than its emulations. > >I had a drum machine for about three years before I had regular access to a >drum kit- in six months, I was twice as good at the real thing than on the >machine (except for the timing thing- oops!). Well, "except for the timing thing" is kind of a crucial bit. After several years of drumming, I certainly couldn't come close to my drum machines ability to play 32-nd note fills at 144 bpm in a 13/8 song. Anyway, I'm not really sure how this connects to the complaint about MIDI not being expressive enough--I'm not sure if you're being pro- or con-. However, seeing as I'm a chromosomally-imperfect individual, when has that ever stopped me from replying? Let's see if I can tie this in with the "I'm all looped-out" thread. I'm gonna get a tiny bit philosophical here, but I promise it won't be too hoity-toity. Where to start? It's about _the music_. The point of the whole show, the point of the technology, whether pro- or con-, is to make music. No, no, wait, let me step back just a little further. It's not good enough to say it's for music. Music is not just some abstract remote entity. Music is simply a human endeavor, so the right place to look is at the underlying motivations of the humans involved in the process. At this point, I could say lots of high-fallutin' things about the nature and purpose of art, but let's sidestep this with the simple assertion, "people make music because they enjoy the act". I admit this may not always be true, but I hope it is generally true. One of the nice things about this view is it ignores the distinction between deeply artistic art and pop culture production--e.g. "literature vs. romance novels", "Music-with-a-capital-M vs. top-40 music". Well, if you buy into the above claim, we can wrap up the whole anti-/pro- technology thing right quick: "Do whatever makes you happy, man[*]." But I'm not ready to wrap it up, so just ignore that reply. ([*] please forgive the sexism of this 60's slang) Is music particularly distinctive from other forms of artistic endeavor? Probably not; or rather all of the non-verbal arts (music & visual art) are probably radically distinguishable from the others. Interestingly, though, music is still very different from visual art. For example, both music and books are basically linear; most visual art is not. Additionally, music is an "enforced" linear; the listener is forced to proceed apace, unlike books (although if you listen to spoken literature, this aspect of the experience will change). The most radical difference between the media used for music and those for other art forms lies in the very distinctiveness of the process of listening. (With this rambling assertion we begin our descent towards the actual content of this mail.) Can you imagine what it would be like to read a book if the letters were forced into your eyes no matter what you were looking at? If you could two books at once with no difficulty in seeing them (although presumably only being able to "focus" on one at a time)? (Really, really, we're descending towards the actual content... there's a cliff coming up right around this bend.) Music exploits one of our strangest sensory apparatuses. Our ears our wired up so that if two sounds occur at the same time, we can hear them both no problem. Add in a third and a fourth, and we are still fine. Compare this to visual art; while you can layer and blend between two images, the result is generally unparseable, and three or four makes it impossible. (There are alternative things you can do, using opaque splicing, not blending, but this is no longer very analogous, since it hides the overlapping portion, which prevents any analogy for this next bit [ooh, I'm foreshadowing].) Not only do we hear each of two sounds independently, we also hear them together, we hear them _harmonically_. Thus the nature of what music is stems rather strongly from the nature of what human hearing allows: a sequence of sounds over time, where value is derived from the choice of sequence (melody) and the overlapping of more than one sound at the same time (harmony). Note that for this definition I haven't distinguished between pitch and tone, both of which are important, although we normally use "melody" and "harmony" to refer to pitches not tones. Because the medium of "music" allows for layering (for multiple simultaneous sounds), it is natural to break apart the layers, and thus to think of most pieces of music as the "performance" of some number of instruments over a period of time. Now return to my original assertion about why people make music. Actually, ignore the assertion, just remember there's one or more artists behind the music. An artist wants to create music; in the end, music pops out. Let's define an "instrument" as a "thing which is used to achieve the above end". That is to say, forget the musical preconceptions about "instrument", and look at one of the core meanings: "a means whereby something is achieved, performed, or furthered" (from Webster on-line, http://www.m-w.com ). >From the point of view of a composer writing for an orchestra, the orchestra itself is a single vast multi-timbral instrument. Alternatively, it is a large collection of instruments. From the composer's point of view, her instruments are "performed" by the writing of the score, and what happens after that is somewhat outside her control. Of course, from the point of view of one of the orchestra musicians, things are very different (the details are left as an exercise for the reader). Similar results obtain for the members of a rock band performing pre-written music, although it gets a little hairier when they've written their own songs. Now, let's take the stereotypical person writing and recording music and playing all the instruments themselves. Their ability to play more than one instrument is mediated by some sort of multi-track recorder technology. If you think of the instrument as "everything between the performer's hands (mouth/feet/brainwaves) and the final product", then where a live guitarist's "instrument" is "guitar-cable-amp-FX-speaker", the above studio "composer"'s instrument might for example be "keyboard-FX/box-multitrack tape-mixdown FX". (And I'm not even factoring in 'warm consoles' and all that other stuff.) There's a slightly weird thing in the above--the performer, at the time of performance, only hears the first half of the chain, not hearing the effects of multitrack tape or the mixdown FX. Thus, many people typically pursue the goal of making their multitracks make as small a change to the sound as possible. On the other hand, the use of postprocessing (especially during the mix) is rather strange. Obviously one can view the person doing the mixdown as a performer; the _practicality_ of adding effects during mixdown is clear. Yet I have trouble picturing it being done to classical orchestral music (especially the widely recommended compress-the-whole-thing-as-a-unit trick). But, then again, remember that the classical orchestral _composer_ has to live with having somebody _conduct_ the music in the end; it's not as odd as it sounds. So what's my point? My point is that pretty much anything is a viable instrument. Whether it be a miked acoustic guitar, a direct bass guitar, an electric guitar through an amp and a speaker and a microphone and an analog mixing board and a piece of tape, or even a MIDI guitar controller controlling a synthesizer--they're all different unique sounding instruments, yet with remarkably similar "human interfaces". To return for the briefest moment to the first question asked above: the act of playing the keyboard, and the act of playing the guitar, are both radically different. The natural vocabularies you might find on either of them are quite different. Andy Summers' dissing of technology is certainly right in one sense--the best way to sound like a harmonica player is to be a harmonica player. But that's merely a diss at all "replicative synthesis technology". There's little specific about keyboard vs. MIDI guitar there. Why do people diss MIDI guitarists who play a string pad, but not keyboardists? A keyboard controls nothing like a real string section. And it controls nothing like a xylophone either. Somebody who's grown up only hearing consonant harmony may find a tritone unacceptably jarring. Many of us, however, find a tritone to be a tasty and useful dissonance. Some of us even enjoy the distinctive sound of a tritone through a lot of distortion. As audiophiles (and I don't mean in the traditional sense), we've acculturated ourselves to a lot of things. And one of the things we're used to is the disctinctive vocabulary most instruments have. People have evolved ways to sound "good" on each instrument, and we know them quite well. But is this "good" really inherent, or simply acculturated? Musical equipment manufactures have gone to a fair amount of effort to create replicative synthesis sound sources-- because that's what they can sell. And when you play those from a controller without an ear towards the traditional vocabulary for the instrument it's supposedly replicating... it hardly sounds like that instrument. To which I say: so what? The new instrument is: MIDI guitar controller-MIDI cable-cheesy organ sound-multitrack Ideally, like all instruments, this one may have a particular vocabulary that will sound the best. And it won't necessarily be the same vocabulary that would be appropriate for a real cheesy organ, nor that which would be appropriate to a plain guitar. But what's _wrong_ with simply playing straight guitar vocabulary into this instrument? People don't complain much about the fact that the vocabulary doesn't change when a chorus pedal is added to an electric guitar "instrument". And everybody lives with unknown-at-performance-time post-processing. You can picture this scenario as being "I record an electric guitar, and at post processing we use the magic effect box that turns it into a cheesy organ sound". Now, _you_ may think it sounds bad. But the musician doesn't. At least, hopefully, the musician is _enjoying_ the process, and really, that's an important step. Whew... anyway, my point is that I see any and all technology as valid. All instruments are just an extension of expression for the performer. If somebody sits down and strums an open chord on a guitar with a piano patch _and finds a musical use for it_, or shreds like Yngwie through a xylophone patch _and finds a musical use for it_, great! And you know what? Unlike industry pundits, or Andy Summers or Robert Fripp, I bet there _are_ musical uses for those performances. I certainly agree with all those people that it makes sense to find the "natural vocabulary" for these new instruments, on one level; and yet I don't hear people saying this about keyboardists. Is this because keyboardists don't suffer from this syndrome? Or is it because the guitar vocabulary is so idiosyncratic? Wow, this has gone way too long. I wanted to turn this discussion back to looping, because the looper as an instrument (or really, the, say, guitar+looper+vortex+speaker as instrument) is quite interesting and different, since a looper inherently subsumes aspects of the multitrack. Remember how I said that since the human ear naturally allows multiple sounds to be heard at once, it makes sense to break down a given bit of music into several separate "instruments"... the looper is neat because of the way it interferes with this breakdown. But I guess I'll leave y'all to think about this issue yourselves. Sean From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:31 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 11:25:37 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLC5i-0001rs-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:25:30 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLArV-0004DP-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 10:06:45 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLArJ-0000Hx-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 10:06:33 -0800 Message-ID: <35252385.7A3D@efn.org> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 09:59:33 -0800 From: Peter Harlan Reply-To: pharlan@efn.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com CC: pharlan@efn.org Subject: Price sharing etiquette Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6gU61B.A.exG.COSJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4849 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 10:06:33 -0800 X-UIDL: 3eb9615a3f63a58375f9f69516e1df0a Hello Loopers ... Hello Loopers ... Please excuse me, but I feel like whining a bit. On Wednesday, somebody posted the following about the Echoplex DP: > Thanks for the various responses. I'm still waiting to find > out how soon a unit will be available (nobody seems to have > them in stock), and I found a pretty good price ($569.00 + > $95.00 - thanks Marshall) but I have one more question[...] Since I've been trying to find a good deal on an Echoplex, I was interested. So I sent an e-mail to the author of this message asking if he could please let me know where that deal can be had. The response? Nada. Not even a "Sorry, dude, can't tell you". So what's the point of the post? If you're not willing to share the information, this really amounts to gloating. After all, you can thank the individuals who tipped you off to the good deal by private e-mail. Anyway, I have two more questions: 1. Where can you get the Echoplex at the above price? 2. How does everybody feel about discussing prices of gear on the list? Does anybody have any ethical or pragmatic concerns about this? There, I feel better now. Send info, questions, flames to the list or to me personally. One thing I can promise you: if you send me an e-mail, no matter how rude your message, I'll reply to you. It's only simple courtesy. -Peter From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:42 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 12:44:55 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLDKT-0003OT-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:44:49 -0800 Sender: randy@cdac.com Message-ID: <352526C5.932B98A1@cdac.com> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 10:13:25 -0800 From: Randy Reichenbach Organization: Cascade Design Automation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pharlan@efn.org CC: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette References: <35252385.7A3D@efn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1aPSpB.A.uNC.ihUJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4852 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:44:49 -0800 X-UIDL: bae5bd3b95915b935593aa076456ca6b Peter Harlan wrote: > > Hello Loopers ... Hello Loopers ... > > Please excuse me, but I feel like whining a bit. On Wednesday, > somebody posted the following about the Echoplex DP: > > > Thanks for the various responses. I'm still waiting to find > > out how soon a unit will be available (nobody seems to have > > them in stock), and I found a pretty good price ($569.00 + > > $95.00 - thanks Marshall) but I have one more question[...] > > Since I've been trying to find a good deal on an Echoplex, I > was interested. So I sent an e-mail to the author of this > message asking if he could please let me know where that deal > can be had. The response? Nada. Not even a "Sorry, dude, can't > tell you". > > So what's the point of the post? If you're not willing to share > the information, this really amounts to gloating. After all, > you can thank the individuals who tipped you off to the good > deal by private e-mail. > > Anyway, I have two more questions: > 1. Where can you get the Echoplex at the above price? > 2. How does everybody feel about discussing prices of gear on > the list? Does anybody have any ethical or pragmatic concerns > about this? > > There, I feel better now. Send info, questions, flames to the > list or to me personally. One thing I can promise you: if you > send me an e-mail, no matter how rude your message, I'll reply > to you. It's only simple courtesy. > > -Peter Thanks for making that point Peter. Maybe I've just subscribed to rather helpful newgroups in the past, but this group does seem a bit on the helpful-only-if-I-can-toot-my-own-horn-in-the-process side. Last week I asked a simple question, "What is the going rate for a used JamMan?". I received not even ONE response. I would imagine that 80% of you have a good idea. Was my question too basic and "newbee" for all you pros? -- Peace ... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ====== = Randy Reichenbach randy@cdac.com = // || \\ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= || || || = Physical Design Engineer (VLSI-CAD) = || //\\ || = Cascade Design Automation = \\//__\\// = 3650 131st Ave SE, Suite 650 = `------' = Bellevue, Washington 98006 = = Tel: 425.643.0200 Fax: 425.649.7600 = ... Get some! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:38 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 12:34:19 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLDAE-000221-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:34:14 -0800 Message-ID: <352531D4.3E9C@efn.org> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 11:00:36 -0800 From: Peter Harlan Reply-To: pharlan@efn.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com CC: pharlan@efn.org Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qK8-bD.A.R8.yWUJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4851 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:34:14 -0800 X-UIDL: 78e675316f93823c8c8e9d27bb3d07eb Okay, as soon as I get an Echoplex, I'm going to hook up a mic and record the following: "If I don't have something good to say, then I won't say anything." Apologies to the person I quoted earlier. I didn't mention a name, but if you save your messages you could figure out who that was. No, I still haven't received a response from him, but I should have given him the benefit of a doubt. There could be many reasons why he wasn't able to respond. And I have heard from someone else that did get a response from a similar inquiry. So, he is obviously somebody that will share his good fortune. I've also received some interesting private e-mails about peoples' different perspectives on sharing price info on the list. I would hope that we could discuss those things publicly. Thanks for constructive comments, public and private! -Peter From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:37 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 11:43:37 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLCN3-00047m-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:43:25 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLCMv-0001Tl-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:43:17 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLCMT-00042m-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:42:49 -0800 Sender: randy@cdac.com Message-ID: <352538F3.C3892BCC@cdac.com> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 11:30:59 -0800 From: Randy Reichenbach Organization: Cascade Design Automation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette - NFI References: <35252385.7A3D@efn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Fk0LUB.A.LfC.YkTJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4850 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:42:49 -0800 X-UIDL: b7f32295fd8246e70197f6e32fe36e99 Peter Harlan wrote: > I didn't intend my last message as a flame to the group. Just a statement in general about groups helping those with questions instead of the usual talking about ourselves which we musicians are much too notorious for doing. Sorry if I stepped on any toes. NFI (No flame intended). -- Peace ... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ====== = Randy Reichenbach randy@cdac.com = // || \\ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= || || || = Physical Design Engineer (VLSI-CAD) = || //\\ || = Cascade Design Automation = \\//__\\// = 3650 131st Ave SE, Suite 650 = `------' = Bellevue, Washington 98006 = = Tel: 425.643.0200 Fax: 425.649.7600 = ... Get some! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:45 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 13:04:15 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLDd9-0005gx-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:04:07 -0800 Message-Id: <199804032048.MAA16178@scv4.apple.com> Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette Date: Fri, 3 Apr 98 14:49:48 -0500 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"xNznuD.A.fUE.-yUJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4854 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:04:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 5277d2325e8a5ddb0f9f52d157864dc0 > >Last week I asked a simple question, "What is the going rate for a used >JamMan?". I received not even ONE response. I would imagine that 80% >of you have a good idea. Was my question too basic and "newbee" for all >you pros? Between $250 and $600. The price varies wildly depending on whether its being sold via auction or just posted as "for sale", and whether it's the stock 8sec or blown 32sec version. I'd expect to pay around $350 for an 8sec unit. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:06:05 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 18:00:05 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLIFS-0001SN-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:59:58 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLIFQ-000436-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:59:56 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLIFC-0001QO-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:59:42 -0800 Message-ID: <35253E22.E8F8584A@nyfac.com> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 20:53:06 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: simulations, instruments, and music (very long) References: <199804021229.AA16762@world.std.com> <199804031436.AA08967@world.std.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qTL4RD.A.nb.rIZJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4869 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:59:42 -0800 X-UIDL: d281e35f2e6dc2d51530c1ad8383a627 Sean- I don't have time for more than a prefunctory reply right now, but excellent post- Wish I could find band members who think the way you do. I get back, Trevor From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:44 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 13:01:12 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLDa9-0005I3-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:01:01 -0800 Message-ID: <215C1D5A0FFDD011B3CC00805FC18C292D67D4@ntsrv2.lexicon.com> From: "Hogan, Greg (Exchange)" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Lexicon MPX100 Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:50:33 -0500 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"u7jH5B.A.uCE.gwUJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4853 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:01:01 -0800 X-UIDL: 2af7f23380a09ebe43e9f826df37c998 For those who need to know:MPX 100 Dual Channel Processor $249.00 The MPX 100 is a true stereo dual-channel processor with 24-bit internal processing, 20-bit A/D-D/A and S/PDIF digital output. Powered by a new version of Lexicon's proprietary Lexichip(tm), the MPX 100 has 240 presets with classic, true stereo reverb programs such as Ambience, Plate, Chamber and Inverse as well as Tremolo, Rotary, Chorus, Flange, Pitch, Detune, 5.7 second Delay and Echo. Dual-channel processing gives you two effects in a variety of configurations: Dual Mono, Dual Stereo, Cascade and Parallel. A front panel Adjust knob allows instant manipulation of each effect's critical parameters and an Effects Level/Balance knob lets you control effect level or the balance of dual effect combinations. An easy Learn mode allows MIDI patching of front panel controls. In addition, tempo-controlled modulation rates and delay times lock to Tap or MIDI clock, and Tap tempos can be controlled by audio input, the front panel tap button, dual footswitch, external MIDI controller or MIDI Program Change. Other features include dual 2-stage headroom indicators, a headphone output, a software-selectable MIDI OUT/THRU port, pushbutton of footswitch selection of dry or muted audio output, a 20Hz-20kHz +/-1dB Frequency Response and an A-D Dynamic Range >100dB typical. Other features of the MPX 100 - Easy to use Learn mode patches a MIDI Controller or Program Change to up to 5 front panel controls (Mix, Effects Level/Balance, Adjust, Bypass and Tap) - Analog outputs provide >95dB dynamic range - S/PDIF digital output provides simultaneous wet or dry 20 bit digital output with >100dB dynamic range @ 44.1kHz - High impedance input allows you to use a variety of instruments from guitar to keyboards - System mode provides access to system-wide settings and MIDI features: Assign front panel Bypass button as Input Mute or Bypass Enable or Disable Learned Patches Mute or Bypass during Program loads Wet or Dry Digital Output MIDI Out or THRU Enable or Disable MIDI Program change Enable or Disable incoming MIDI Clock Global or Program Specific Tempo MIDI Dumps for the current program, all 16 User Programs, or System mode settings Shipping in May! Best regards, Greg From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:46 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 13:11:35 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLDkD-0006ZN-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:11:25 -0800 Sender: randy@cdac.com Message-ID: <35254DE0.6AE8BFAD@cdac.com> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 13:00:16 -0800 From: Randy Reichenbach Organization: Cascade Design Automation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette References: <199804032048.MAA16178@scv4.apple.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qRLXqC.A.X9E.J4UJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4855 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:11:25 -0800 X-UIDL: 9b021b2ac81b01fcbe36f76ca44a7495 T.W. Hartnett wrote: > > > > >Last week I asked a simple question, "What is the going rate for a used > >JamMan?". I received not even ONE response. I would imagine that 80% > >of you have a good idea. Was my question too basic and "newbee" for all > >you pros? > > Between $250 and $600. The price varies wildly depending on whether its > being sold via auction or just posted as "for sale", and whether it's the > stock 8sec or blown 32sec version. I'd expect to pay around $350 for an > 8sec unit. > > Travis Hartnett Thanks Travis! -- Peace ... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ====== = Randy Reichenbach randy@cdac.com = // || \\ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= || || || = Physical Design Engineer (VLSI-CAD) = || //\\ || = Cascade Design Automation = \\//__\\// = 3650 131st Ave SE, Suite 650 = `------' = Bellevue, Washington 98006 = = Tel: 425.643.0200 Fax: 425.649.7600 = ... Get some! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:51 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 14:06:58 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLEbv-0005No-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 14:06:55 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <352531D4.3E9C@efn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 14:03:23 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette Resent-Message-ID: <"JQIacC.A.AlE.AyVJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4858 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 14:06:55 -0800 X-UIDL: 2506919ae7743748cb62926e68a0f1ac OK...here' my 2 cents: It appears to me that sharing price information (or any non-proprietary information, for that matter) can only benefit us all. The only ones who don't benefit are the retailers who are overcharging for their products, and I have no problem if they lose business. It has always bothered me the way the music equipment industry (at least the Guitar Center type businesses) do not give their best price initially. They start with list price and force you to negotiate your way down. Many times they will only give you the "best price" if you quote prices from other retailers. This business approach probably works for a lot of unsuspecting consumers, who don't know any better and think that any price below list price is a good one. We, as consumers, must demand more from retailers! In this spirit, I try to avoid Guitar Center (etc.) and give my business to establishments like Sweetwater Sound (etc.) that don't bullshit you. Exchanging price information on a list like this is a great way to keep these places in check. - chris >Okay, as soon as I get an Echoplex, I'm going to hook up >a mic and record the following: "If I don't have something >good to say, then I won't say anything." > >Apologies to the person I quoted earlier. I didn't mention >a name, but if you save your messages you could figure out >who that was. No, I still haven't received a response from >him, but I should have given him the benefit of a doubt. >There could be many reasons why he wasn't able to respond. >And I have heard from someone else that did get a response >from a similar inquiry. So, he is obviously somebody that >will share his good fortune. > >I've also received some interesting private e-mails about >peoples' different perspectives on sharing price info on >the list. I would hope that we could discuss those things >publicly. > >Thanks for constructive comments, public and private! > >-Peter From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:54 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 14:52:45 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLFKA-0003Du-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 14:52:38 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980403212906.00c8536c@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 13:29:06 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette Resent-Message-ID: <"O1iIT.A.vEC.RZWJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4861 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 14:52:38 -0800 X-UIDL: e705658a00fbf70c1cabc1b9fbed1582 At 11:00 AM 4/3/98 -0800, Peter Harlan wrote: >Okay, as soon as I get an Echoplex, I'm going to hook up >a mic and record the following: "If I don't have something >good to say, then I won't say anything." You shouldn't feel like you can't point out problems, whereever you find them. They don't get better otherwise. At the same time I think it's useful to be careful of the tone one imparts in such things. On the internet, it is quite easy for someone to cause a lot more damage than they might realize or intend. When your actual goal is to make something better, you sometimes need to step back and consider whether the thing you are about to post to the universe really does that, or whether it actually just makes you feel better by beating on someone else. As some of you may have noticed, my own impulsive nature gets me into trouble along these lines on a regular basis. I also get to be on the receiving end of the same sort of thing fairly often, so I've had the unfun experience of repairing damage caused by someone who didn't realize how much they were causing. So I get to think about this sort of thing a lot. :-) >Apologies to the person I quoted earlier. I didn't mention >a name, but if you save your messages you could figure out >who that was. No, I still haven't received a response from >him, but I should have given him the benefit of a doubt. >There could be many reasons why he wasn't able to respond. >And I have heard from someone else that did get a response >from a similar inquiry. So, he is obviously somebody that >will share his good fortune. As someone who receives large volumes of mail each day, and who is regularly unable to reply to it all in a timely fashion, I'd say yeah, give 'em a break. I think most people do try to help if they can. Sometimes it takes me days or weeks to reply to someone, so sorry in advance I do this to you. >I've also received some interesting private e-mails about >peoples' different perspectives on sharing price info on >the list. I would hope that we could discuss those things >publicly. Seems to me that would be a valuable discussion. I'd like to hear people's opinions on sharing price info. (publicly, that is.) I didn't even realize there was any controversy on that. understanding is a good thing.... kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:49 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 13:46:26 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLEI2-00031e-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:46:22 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980403213936.00d2074c@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 13:39:36 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette Resent-Message-ID: <"XnXcjC.A.yHC.wcVJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4857 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:46:22 -0800 X-UIDL: 93a0c929feb71550d9b68dc5fc860b6a At 10:13 AM 4/3/98 -0800, Randy Reichenbach wrote: >Thanks for making that point Peter. Maybe I've just subscribed >to rather helpful newgroups in the past, but this group does seem a bit >on the helpful-only-if-I-can-toot-my-own-horn-in-the-process side. > >Last week I asked a simple question, "What is the going rate for a used >JamMan?". I received not even ONE response. I would imagine that 80% >of you have a good idea. Was my question too basic and "newbee" for all >you pros? I'd like to think this is a helpful list, that is the point of it. Mostly it seems that it is, but if there are ways to make it better please suggest them! It's not a particularly huge list (several hundred people), so sometimes you might post something that doesn't happen to catch anybody right and doesn't spark up any replies. It happens to me all the time here, and elsewhere as well. It doesn't mean people are dissing you (although it's easy to think that sometimes). Just be patient and try again. kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:57 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 15:28:38 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLFsr-0007gv-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:28:29 -0800 Message-Id: <199804032258.OAA24012@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Secret Price Information Date: Fri, 3 Apr 98 16:59:24 -0500 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"5GPe_B.A.EzF.52WJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4863 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:28:29 -0800 X-UIDL: b19e2f6898d3521657bac8172b0e58bd I'd suspect that the reason that one fellow wouldn't tell you his source is that he was afraid you'd cut in and buy it before he could move on it. Echoplexes and JamMen are so hard to find, I can understand someone not wanting to provide their source for a known scarce quantity. I've been tracking all the e-posts I've been able to find on used Vortex and JamMen, and it's a seller's market right now, due to the growing hipness and fixed supply of these weird little boxes. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:06:01 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 16:35:38 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLGvk-00009D-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 16:35:32 -0800 X-Sender: doug@mail.lightlink.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980403225410.0b1fd756@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> References: <215C1D5A0FFDD011B3CC00805FC18C292D67D4@ntsrv2.lexicon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:05:52 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Doug Wyatt Subject: RE: Lexicon MPX100 Resent-Message-ID: <"CuivG.A.EiG.i5XJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4866 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 16:35:32 -0800 X-UIDL: 88992a4499f741af2dc46ef4ebe251e9 Michael wrote: > I've asked this before.... 5.7 secs .... tap tempo ..... so DOES IT LOOP? > If not, WHY NOT??? And can it be expanded beyond 5.7s? And if you set up > a loop on the 5.7 sec delay and change programs, will the loop carry over? > Surely you remembered that. Even Zoom remembered _that_.... > > (not to appear ungrateful or anything) Thanks for asking exactly what I wanted to ask :) The price is certainly right. (I had no idea RAM had gotten so cheap -- I just upgraded my S-760 to 32 megs for $54 ... now I have an extra 8 meg SIMM that must be worth far less than the $300 (?) I paid for it three years ago. If anyone has any use for it, I'll sell it for $2, which is about what it will cost to mail it.) Doug --- Doug Wyatt doug@sonosphere.com Sonosphere (music and music software) http://www.sonosphere.com/ my new CD, "Accidental Beauties": http://www.sonosphere.com/wyatt/ From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:58 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 15:33:04 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLFxC-0000Qp-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:32:58 -0800 Message-ID: <022001bd5f4d$8f7d0e60$35f2ffd0@default> From: "future perfect" To: Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:12:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"yUQfo.A.3ZG.s7WJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4864 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:32:58 -0800 X-UIDL: 55873e73612cf5485fa01000cdeef148 I'd be happy to share any price info I get with the whole list- it helps us all know if a retailer (or private citizen) is grossly over (or maybe under?) charging. Dave Eichenberger ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - art music - visit our website at: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:06:07 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 18:36:26 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLIoj-0005bD-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 18:36:25 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLIok-0006I3-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 18:36:26 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLHM6-00035h-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:02:46 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <35256393.B22C3AF9@mailbox.syr.edu> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:20:10 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette Resent-Message-ID: <"RONSP.A.jlC.YYYJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4867 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:02:46 -0800 X-UIDL: d91ad9dd6b34c440a7ff256b384434f6 I wrote: > >As someone that used to word in a retail music store, I'd have to say that you >couldn't be more wrong. Do you have any idea what the markup on a piece of >musical equipment is? How about less than 20%. In a high compatition >situation, it is usually as little as 10 or 5%. Where they get you is for >excessories and sheet music. Anyway, next time you mail order something >cheap, just think about the day that there wont be a local music store to go >and check stuff out in. What was I wrong about? That sharing price information can only benefit us all or that sharing price information will not benefit retailers who are overcharging? I am not claiming that mail order is better than local retailers.....surely, I'd be willing to spend a little more for a product at a local store for the convenience of demoing the unit, having one-on-one customer service, having the ease of returning the unit, etc.... But how can I know HOW MUCH more I am spending, if I don't know what a good price is? What I was talking about is wakling into a store and being given a price and not knowing if that is a good price or not. In my experience, some establishments (like Guitar Center) will almost assuredly NOT give you their best price immediately. You must haggle, and unless you have price comparisons, they probably will not give you their best price. My guess (and maybe you can confirm this) is that these salespeople are getting paid commision based on the price...that is, the better the price they give you, the less they get themselves... As far as I can see, the only way to deal with this type of business approach is to: a) Only deal with people who are up front and give you THEIR best price, right off the bat. b) Go to Guitar Center, prepared with knowledge about the product's "reasonable" price, cause you ain't gonna find out from them (easily) what is reasonable and what is not. So, again, my point here is: Sharing price information on a list like this makes it easier for us to implement both these options. Knowing the "best price"of a product allows me to determine if a particular retailer is being fair or not. That is my point, plain & simple. If you choose not to share price info with the list, I respect your decision. I can only hope that enough people WILL choose to share information, to make this list (& this capitalistic system) more beneficial to me. Inspired by the Invisible Hand, Chris From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:53 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 14:28:17 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLEwJ-0000F9-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 14:27:59 -0800 Message-ID: <35256393.B22C3AF9@mailbox.syr.edu> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 17:32:51 -0500 From: mark sottilaro Reply-To: msottila@mailbox.syr.edu Organization: metaliminal X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lw1brD.A.PiG.oBWJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4860 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 14:27:59 -0800 X-UIDL: 18ba987f673c0617a3b37385358f1605 Hey, You said: From kflint Fri Apr 3 15:13:23 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLFe8-0005nZ-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:13:16 -0800 Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 18:02:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199804032302.SAA16392@mcfeely.concentric.net> X-Sender: hideo@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Tom Lambrecht Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette Resent-Message-ID: <"Odxo3C.A.5QE.gqWJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4862 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:13:16 -0800 X-UIDL: c9155d71d31c5309783ba07fc19a06c9 At 01:39 PM 4/3/98 -0800, you wrote: >At 10:13 AM 4/3/98 -0800, Randy Reichenbach wrote: > >>Thanks for making that point Peter. Maybe I've just subscribed >>to rather helpful newgroups in the past, but this group does seem a bit >>on the helpful-only-if-I-can-toot-my-own-horn-in-the-process side. >> >>Last week I asked a simple question, "What is the going rate for a used >>JamMan?". I received not even ONE response. I would imagine that 80% >>of you have a good idea. Was my question too basic and "newbee" for all >>you pros? > >I'd like to think this is a helpful list, that is the point of it. Mostly it >seems that it is, but if there are ways to make it better please suggest them! > >It's not a particularly huge list (several hundred people), so sometimes you >might post something that doesn't happen to catch anybody right and doesn't >spark up any replies. It happens to me all the time here, and elsewhere as >well. It doesn't mean people are dissing you (although it's easy to think >that sometimes). Just be patient and try again. > >kim >________________________________________________________ >Kim Flint 408-752-9284 >Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com >Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com > > > > Randy: if 'tis any consolation, the list ignores MOST of what I post (hmmmm...so do the other lists I subscribe to . . . boy, there's a lot of miscreants out there ;) . . . I paid about $325 with shipping for mine and another $20 or so to expand the memory to 32 seconds--I wouldn't spend more, especially with DOD's rack mount Dimension looper supposedly due to debut with a street price of $230 or so with 24 clicks of total looping time and especially now that Echoplexi are due to make a reasonably priced appearance--I hope alot of these bottom-feeding East Coast "vintage" gear dealers wind up eating their shorts on Jammies Tom Tom Lambrecht hideo@concentric.net From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:06:02 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 17:14:08 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLHX0-0004Kz-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:14:02 -0800 Message-Id: <199804040105.RAA09496@scv2.apple.com> Subject: RE: Lexicon MPX100 Date: Fri, 3 Apr 98 19:06:43 -0500 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"0cnon.A.E4D.6jYJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4868 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 17:14:02 -0800 X-UIDL: 41383b46ccc4c4cdaeec5bd8183918f7 >For those who need to know:MPX 100 Dual Channel Processor $249.00 Is this supposed to be $1249.00? That thing has a lot of features... Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:06:00 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 16:23:25 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLGju-0006TU-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 16:23:18 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199804040010.QAA17710@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Simulations and labor saving devices (was: Re: MIDI problems ??? To: nyfac2@nyfac.com Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 16:10:13 -0800 (PST) Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <35235E80.36226C0B@nyfac.com> from "tdbajus" at Apr 2, 98 10:46:40 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nHCpz.A.XnE.AqXJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4865 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 16:23:18 -0800 X-UIDL: fdc3857fc1749335dfa58e919224d011 > When I was an indentured servant at Sam Ass, Vernon Reid (name dropping!) > came in and tried this new guitar midi converter out with me. It uses > (used?) some kind of fuzzy logic sort of thing, and was supposed to be really > fast. This was back in my Coleman/Coltrane days, with big wide intervals, > tritones, and (for me) lots o' speed. [For those of you who are concerned, I > sought professional help, and I am feeling much better now]. > > Anyway, the damn thing sputtered and hiccupped, and generally made a mess of > things. Funny thing was, Vernon (far better faster cooler- although much, > much shorter than me) had the think working pretty well. I could never > figure it out. In general, pitch-to-MIDI converters for guitar strongly favor players who pick every note... and pick each note cleanly. Players who like to slur a lot generally have more trouble with these devices. Cheers, Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:06:06 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 18:08:38 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLINm-0002WW-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 18:08:34 -0800 Message-ID: <35257B1E.C86EB308@jps.net> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 16:13:18 -0800 From: Roland Eberle X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re:Guitar Center Pricing References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xtSC7B.A.cYB.jQZJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4870 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 18:08:34 -0800 X-UIDL: e5d737405bda297603ba1d8ecbe01afc Another dos centavos Chris Chovit wrote: > OK...here' my 2 cents: > > We, as consumers, must demand more from retailers! In this spirit, I > try to avoid Guitar Center (etc.) and give my business to establishments > like Sweetwater Sound (etc.) that don't bullshit you. Exchanging price > information on a list like this is a great way to keep these places in > check. > I have to disagree...I have bought tons and tons of gear...and time and again Guitar Center matches or (usually) beats the competition...most of the gear is tagged with a current sale price...almost always 25% off list or more...frequently as high as 50% ALL guitar Center merchandise is tagged with bar code showing MSRP and NO GC salesperson has ever tried to charge me full price for anything...perhaps there are regional differences...I shop at the 4 Bay Area stores and I beleive they automatically assume they are dealing with savvy shoppers who went to the trouble to travel to their store to get a bargain. Now...the mom and pop stores are cool in a home town way and very convenient for picks,mags , lessons etc...but THEY are the ones who are most likely to ask List price (or MORE) for any given piece of gear. PLUS...try using it for 30 days and decide you dont want it...return to the mom/pop and try to get a full (or ANY) refund. Guitar Center absolutly RULES for that reason alone...I have employed that return policy on many occsions with no questions asked or hassles...and truth be told...that is the reason I shop there so frequently. Yes, Musicians Freind and AMS and other mail order outfits do a GREAT job and also offer extended length return priveledges (MF for example is 45 days...which is great)...but to be able to walk in to a store...walk out with the gear..knowing you can mess with it for a month and still bring it back...all at rock bottom pricing...is quite amazing in this retail age. No...I don't work for GC...and actually hate going in the place because of the ambient noise...but hey..a deals a deal...and I havent found anyone who can beat them consistenly. From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:06:08 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 19:03:55 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLJFG-0000Qz-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 19:03:50 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLJFG-0007a2-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 19:03:50 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLJF8-0000Pm-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 19:03:42 -0800 Message-ID: <35258DF1.7ECD@efn.org> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 17:33:37 -0800 From: Peter Harlan Reply-To: pharlan@efn.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com CC: msottila@mailbox.syr.edu, pharlan@efn.org Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette References: <35256393.B22C3AF9@mailbox.syr.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pdQ4_D.A.qKH.zHaJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4871 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 19:03:42 -0800 X-UIDL: ff0394e76639ed1300f110442a6d0ab6 Mark, I won't say you are mistaken about things you have direct experience with--perhaps some retail outlets are given preferential deals by the suppliers. I don't know. What I *do* know is that I have been told by other folks who've worked in retail music stores that they only pay about 50% to 60% of list for things. That would leave a lot of room for dealing. And, if you really look around, you can sometimes find deals that indicate the markups must be substantial. For example, the Roland GR-30 lists for $895 (without the GK-2A pickup). zZounds and Synthony are selling this for $599 and $600, respectively. Even deeper discounts can be found on the GK-2A, though I don't have the figures anymore because I'm not looking for one now. But do the math. Now, you could argue that these stores are maybe just employing a "loss-leader" tactic to get more of your business, but I think that would be kind of absurd. Just because a store gives me a good deal on one item, I'm not going to turn around and buy something else from them for hundreds more than I can get it someplace else. You could also argue that these stores are just closing out items they haven't been able to sell. Sometimes that's true, and then you can get an exceptional deal. But, I don't think the market for GR-30's has dried up yet. As for supporting my local music store...well I have two answers for that: (1) Musician's Friend is my local music store. One of 'em anyway. And I can get a good deal there. But usually I have to first find a good price somewhere else, then they'll match it. That works for me, and they don't complain either. (2) The other music stores around my town either (a) aren't dealers for the gear I'm looking for, (b) don't know anything about what I'm looking for, (c) have ripped me off in the past, (d) have treated me with disrespect, or (e) knowingly sell stolen property. When at all possible, I prefer to do business with capable, smart, polite, interested and honest people. If that is not possible, I look out for numero uno. Period. This is not to say that the Musician's Friend folks aren't capable, smart, etc. Actually, most of them seem to be. Anyway, that's the end of this rant. Later, Peter From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:06:10 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 19:39:23 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLJnc-0003j5-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 19:39:20 -0800 From: ANET Message-ID: <18c19634.3525aa1e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 22:33:48 EST To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Lexicon MPX100 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"N6uBoB.A.ACD.9paJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4872 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 19:39:20 -0800 X-UIDL: 5c770243fa00c15f0d3bcfee80dae749 In a message dated 98-04-03 15:58:39 EST, you write: > Date: 98-04-03 15:58:39 EST > From: ghogan@lexicon.com (Hogan, Greg (Exchange)) > Reply-to: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com ('Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com') > > For those who need to know:MPX 100 Dual Channel Processor $249.00 > Hey Greg; I am interested in this product, thanks for the post. Just one question, when will Lexicon drop production on it? Regards; John Peters From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:06:14 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 21:07:37 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLLB0-0002II-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 21:07:34 -0800 From: TritoneDW Message-ID: <4a53adb3.3525ae00@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 22:50:22 EST To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 56 Resent-Message-ID: <"LKbavB.A.VxB.48bJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4873 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 21:07:34 -0800 X-UIDL: 3ed08cf4a7d81327ead06fe97cff0af1 In a message dated 98-04-03 15:43:07 EST, you write: << Thanks for making that point Peter. Maybe I've just subscribed to rather helpful newgroups in the past, but this group does seem a bit on the helpful-only-if-I-can-toot-my-own-horn-in-the-process side. Last week I asked a simple question, "What is the going rate for a used JamMan?". I received not even ONE response. I would imagine that 80% of you have a good idea. Was my question too basic and "newbee" for all you pros? -- >> I can't speak for everyone else, but I often don't respond to these questions because I don't see them. This list generates a LOT of mail, as you know. Generally, I only have time to skim the posts, and maybe read one or two if I'm lucky. I certainly don't care about tooting my horn, and I don't really get the impression that too many other people here care about that either--I could be wrong. I think we've got a great thing going here, and I would certainly like to help other people if I can. Perhaps those of us who have tons of time to read each post in detail should up their commitment to public service :-). As a practical point, there's a lot of info for those just getting involved in this stuff on the LD website. Check it out. Drew W. From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:06:15 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 22:20:24 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLMJT-000712-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 22:20:23 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLLEz-0004zZ-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 21:11:41 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLLEj-0002ag-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 21:11:25 -0800 From: TritoneDW Message-ID: Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 22:59:02 EST To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Guitar Center Pricing Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 56 Resent-Message-ID: <"K94MzD.A.o3B.s9bJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4874 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 21:11:25 -0800 X-UIDL: 51b90f1efd181bfa8cd031fb63ef11c7 Hey all, I've noticed something interesting about Guitar Center--how much it sucks (or does't suck) really depends which town you're in. For example, I will never give one damn cent to the, uh, "people"at the Hollywood or San Francisco GCs, but when I lived in St. Paul, I thought the Roseville GC was great--good prices, no bullshit. It would be great to compile a ratings list for GCs nationwide. Drew W. From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:06:17 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 23:20:01 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLNF9-0002Rh-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 23:19:59 -0800 Message-Id: <199804040504.AAA14831@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Dumb question Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 00:03:57 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"oj8QfB.A.uFC.X6dJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4875 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 23:19:59 -0800 X-UIDL: 9281f1cfeb7a0af6fdb770aee41a7624 i have a vortex, but really haven't lifted the hood much. 2 questions: - is the 'loop' portion some of you refer to the 'deja vu' patch, set for max time??? -is there a way to do a 'hold' as you loop like this (or other patch entirely) :laugh, then let me know. thanx andre' From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:52 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 14:17:34 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLEm9-0006jM-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 14:17:29 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980403223517.0b1f28b6@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 22:35:17 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette In-Reply-To: <352526C5.932B98A1@cdac.com> References: <35252385.7A3D@efn.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"K7JOFB.A.QZF.s4VJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4859 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 14:17:29 -0800 X-UIDL: a79dc4a527cf5f54489a3dc9dd2fb563 Randy wailed: >Last week I asked a simple question, "What is the going rate for a used >JamMan?". I received not even ONE response. I would imagine that 80% >of you have a good idea. Was my question too basic and "newbee" for all >you pros? Woah there! I'll come clean to say I can't help, purely because I'm in foreign climes (and you'll find the cheapest JM in the states, no doubt). I think that second to that, no-one really knows. It ranks as a great unanswerable questions, along with "is there a God?", "How many roads must a man walk down?" and "How much is a used Vortex?" As far as I can tell, prices range between $200 and $400 - yes, really that much. Extra memory confuses the situation more. I think it's a case of go forth, my boy, and haggle. One question - > ====== > // || \\ > || || || > || //\\ || > \\//__\\// > `------' why does your sigfile feature a pair of underpants? ;) Michael From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 00:05:47 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 3 13:18:48 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLDrJ-0007Uf-00; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:18:45 -0800 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980403225410.0b1fd756@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 22:54:10 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." Subject: RE: Lexicon MPX100 In-Reply-To: <215C1D5A0FFDD011B3CC00805FC18C292D67D4@ntsrv2.lexicon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"bEPrXB.A.RIG.rBVJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4856 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:18:45 -0800 X-UIDL: c3a183d288998a8d9b86d654ca3f5738 Greg said - at length - >For those who need to know:MPX 100 Dual Channel Processor $249.00 (snip) > programs such as Ambience, >Plate, Chamber and Inverse as well as Tremolo, Rotary, Chorus, Flange, >Pitch, Detune, 5.7 second Delay and Echo. Dual-channel processing gives >you two effects in a variety of configurations: Dual Mono, Dual Stereo, >Cascade and Parallel. (snip) > In addition, >tempo-controlled modulation rates and delay times lock to Tap or MIDI >clock, and Tap tempos can be controlled by audio input, the front panel >tap button, dual footswitch, external MIDI controller or MIDI Program >Change. I've asked this before.... 5.7 secs .... tap tempo ..... so DOES IT LOOP? If not, WHY NOT??? And can it be expanded beyond 5.7s? And if you set up a loop on the 5.7 sec delay and change programs, will the loop carry over? Surely you remembered that. Even Zoom remembered _that_.... (not to appear ungrateful or anything) Michael From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 16:05:53 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 4 09:23:08 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLWep-0002XV-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 09:23:07 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLVh5-0000pU-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 08:21:23 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLVgz-0006yX-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 08:21:17 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 09:40:28 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Sharing etiquette w/$$$ attached Resent-Message-ID: <"klOeYC.A.rSG.i1lJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4877 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 08:21:17 -0800 X-UIDL: b3d520a31a2624ed53a1c5f72130e1ed >In a message dated 98-04-03 15:43:07 EST, you write: > > > Last week I asked a simple question, "What is the going rate for a used > JamMan?". I received not even ONE response. I would imagine that 80% > of you have a good idea. Was my question too basic and "newbee" for all > you pros? > I've been on this list for a couple of years now and seldom post. Most of this is due tro an extremely busy life. I always enjoy the thoughful posts by the likes of Kim, Sean B, Andre, but I tend to MEAN to add something and.... Anyhow to your query which I never even read, I recently bought a jam man with 32 seconds for $350. Two months ago I sold one with 8 seconds for $500. So there's some trivia for ya. Many times I have to do a wholesale trashing of posts, due to lack of time. Patrick *** *** ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html *** ** From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 16:05:35 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 4 01:45:31 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLPVx-0000hD-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 01:45:29 -0800 Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 03:29:35 -0600 From: John Pollock Subject: Re: Guitar Center Pricing To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <3525FD7F.78A4@delphi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: Resent-Message-ID: <"-RmIiB.A._b.0CgJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4876 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 01:45:29 -0800 X-UIDL: 2c934598d1e8dc3ddb4d72dd49b97a5a TritoneDW wrote: > > Hey all, > > I've noticed something interesting about Guitar Center--how much it sucks (or > does't suck) really depends which town you're in. For example, I will never > give one damn cent to the, uh, "people"at the Hollywood or San Francisco GCs, > but when I lived in St. Paul, I thought the Roseville GC was great--good > prices, no bullshit. It would be great to compile a ratings list for GCs > nationwide. I think it probably depends on the individual employees you're dealing with, more than the store. I was in the GC near my home yesterday for the first time in a year or so, to buy a harmonica. The accessories sales droid found the one I wanted, took my credit card, then proceeded to answer the phone. He spent a full ten minutes trying to diagnose someone's equipment problem-- _without_ processing my order or handing my sale off to someone else (and I was one of only 3 or 4 customers in the entire store). Meanwhile, I'm wrestling my not-quite-three year old son, who desperately wants to play "that purple guitar over there, daddy" (an Ernie Ball Van Halen model with a $2700 price tag). Needless to say, I was steamed. I eventually got the harp, the sales droid got an earful from me, and so did the manager. But I've had very positive experiences on almost every previous visit to the store, so I won't hold this one against the store or GC in general. John Troubador Tech (http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/) From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 16:05:51 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 4 08:42:31 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLW1V-0000R4-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 08:42:29 -0800 Message-ID: <3526437F.44E5E278@bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 09:28:15 -0500 From: Jeff Duke Reply-To: jmar@bellsouth.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: LD site Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pfcRI.A.qJ.VJmJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4878 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 08:42:29 -0800 X-UIDL: 0ab6eb574ec3e55cb692cf61b547db31 Is it just me or is the site access down? Jeff From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 16:05:58 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 4 11:10:57 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLYLA-0000ZR-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 11:10:56 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLYL9-0006R2-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 11:10:55 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLYL7-0000Z7-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 11:10:53 -0800 X-From_:administrator_at_AMSINC@mail.amsinc.com Sat Apr 04 11:10:47 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLYKz-0000XN-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 11:10:45 -0800 Received: from (relay4.UU.NET) [192.48.96.14] by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLYKy-0006Qk-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 11:10:44 -0800 Received: from ams.amsinc.com by relay4.UU.NET with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: ams.amsinc.com [162.70.244.20]) id QQejro22654; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 14:10:40 -0500 (EST) From: administrator_at_AMSINC@mail.amsinc.com Received: from mail.amsinc.com (mail-1.amsinc.com) by ams.amsinc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05375; Sat, 4 Apr 98 14:13:35 EST Received: from ccMail by mail.amsinc.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA891728478; Sat, 04 Apr 98 14:03:30 EST Old-Date: Sat, 04 Apr 98 14:03:30 EST Encoding: 14 Text, 22 Text Message-Id: <9803048917.AA891728478@mail.amsinc.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Message not deliverable X-Diagnostic: Mail to Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com bounced 3 times X-Diagnostic: Mail coming from a daemon, ignored X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight Sender: SmartList Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 11:10:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 5fc0dd726446849971a9d1728856ad0c >Message was resent -- Original recipients were: To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com-------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------- Thanks for the various responses. I'm still waiting to find out how soon a unit will be available (nobody seems to have them in stock), and I found a pretty good price ($569.00 + $95.00 - thanks Marshall) but I have one more question: I plan to add the memory myself; a cursory look thru MacWarehouse turns up 80ns 4MB 30-pin standard SIMMS going for 49.95; assuming these are the right ones, the upgrade should cost me around $150.00. Seems a little high. Anyone? -Lance Glover aka Wafflehead (cheapness in Santa Monica) Received: from falcon.slip.net by mail.amsinc.com (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) ; Wed, 01 Apr 98 16:24:22 EST Return-Path: Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKUpE-00045j-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:13:36 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yKUp2-0007Ne-00; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:13:24 -0800 Message-ID: <35229CCE.498F@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 13:10:34 -0700 From: baumhaus@earthlink.net Reply-To: baumhaus@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Echoperplexed No More (Oberheim Echoplex Purchase) Resent-Message-ID: <"z8H_NB.A.SiG.g1qI1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4814 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: Edward_Chang@mail.amsinc.com Resent-Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:13:24 -0800 From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 16:05:59 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 4 12:30:15 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLZZq-00059p-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 12:30:10 -0800 Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 14:16:59 -0600 From: John Pollock Subject: Re: LD site To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <3526953B.5B54@delphi.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <3526437F.44E5E278@bellsouth.net> Resent-Message-ID: <"jKo8CC.A.9lE.7epJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4879 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 12:30:10 -0800 X-UIDL: 92f50eaae1384694c52025c91f4b8aea Jeff Duke wrote: > > Is it just me or is the site access down? I've also been unable to connect to the LD site, and I've been trying for about 12 hours. John Troubador Tech (http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/) From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 16:06:08 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 4 15:53:28 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLckZ-0000ad-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 15:53:27 -0800 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLaTb-00031n-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 13:27:47 -0800 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLaTX-0000gs-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 13:27:43 -0800 Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 15:26:24 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199804042126.PAA00987@servidor.unam.mx> X-Authentication-Warning: servidor.unam.mx: [132.248.10.153] didn't use HELO protocol X-Sender: smaug@servidor.unam.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: smaug@servidor.unam.mx Subject: Re: LD site Resent-Message-ID: <"MfqKKD.A.rZ.6UqJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4880 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 13:27:43 -0800 X-UIDL: 98aa5c15238513a796b6436356f2bb88 At 02:16 PM 4/04/98 -0600, you wrote: >Jeff Duke wrote: >> >> Is it just me or is the site access down? > >I've also been unable to connect to the LD site, and I've been trying >for about 12 hours. > Yep,the site is down... smaug. From ???@??? Sat Apr 04 16:06:07 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 4 15:48:51 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLcg0-0000EF-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 15:48:44 -0800 Message-ID: <3526C839.6120@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 15:54:34 -0800 From: Andre LaFosse Reply-To: altruist@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: LD site References: <199804042126.PAA00987@servidor.unam.mx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OeZKUC.A.SUH.MZsJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4881 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 15:48:44 -0800 X-UIDL: f9e352b52516cfa3641b41caec68a2b1 smaug@servidor.unam.mx wrote: > > At 02:16 PM 4/04/98 -0600, you wrote: > >Jeff Duke wrote: > >> > >> Is it just me or is the site access down? > > > >I've also been unable to connect to the LD site, and I've been trying > >for about 12 hours. > > > Yep,the site is down... Use the non-domain name address: http://www.slip.net/~kflint/loop/loop.html It works for me... From ???@??? Sun Apr 05 03:26:09 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 4 18:32:29 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLfER-0000qS-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:32:27 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3526C839.6120@earthlink.net> References: <199804042126.PAA00987@servidor.unam.mx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 16:16:09 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: LD site Resent-Message-ID: <"1Bt7rD.A.Ub.ByuJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4882 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:32:27 -0800 X-UIDL: 22f6b75ea96264752eb0b791a12ae55b At 3:54 PM -0800 4/4/98, Andre LaFosse wrote: >smaug@servidor.unam.mx wrote: >> >> At 02:16 PM 4/04/98 -0600, you wrote: >> >Jeff Duke wrote: >> >> >> >> Is it just me or is the site access down? >> > >> >I've also been unable to connect to the LD site, and I've been trying >> >for about 12 hours. >> > >> Yep,the site is down... > >Use the non-domain name address: > >http://www.slip.net/~kflint/loop/loop.html > >It works for me... Sorry, my provider has once again fucked up my domain name. Thanks for providing the direct URL, Andre. That should mostly work, except for the cgi based profiles section of the site. I think this is the final straw for me and slip.net, so I'll soon be figuring out how to transfer everything to another provider. Hopefully I can manage that transparently...I won't switch it until I'm sure of that. thanks for your patience, kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Apr 05 03:26:10 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 4 18:42:50 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLfOS-0001p0-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:42:48 -0800 Message-ID: <3526DE94.100E@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 18:38:41 -0700 From: baumhaus@earthlink.net Reply-To: baumhaus@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Price Sharing Etiquette Re: Price sharing etiquette Re: Price sharing etiquette Re: Price sharing etiquette Re: Price sharing etiquette Re: Price sharing etiquette Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"2Z2vWB.A.5QB.A7uJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4884 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:42:48 -0800 X-UIDL: 919636572fb0ff8929a8b1e454ae532e G'day List: I must confess I'm a little in the dark, as somehow (my own fault to be sure) I got unsubscribed from the list as of last Thursday OR the servers been down? Anyway, it seems my few posts regarding prices on an Echoplex have stirred things up a bit. I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes for posting an actual price from an actual retailer without also stating their name - in my experience, folks who want to find out where to buy something won't be shy about sending a private email (it hasn't ever stopped me!); it was perhaps subliminal that I didn't post the name of the store (Kenosha Music, 414.697.9393) partly because I didn't have the unit in hand - I got several interested private emails, to whom I gave out the name willingly. Just a few thoughts on price and service, etc. When I spoke to Tom Merit @ Kenosha to finally place the order (it should arrive in soggy Southern California around the 23rd of this month), he told me that he had already received three calls, because of me "putting it on the internet" to which I felt slightly chagrined, not knowing if this was a good thing for him or not; I would assume it's a good thing, but there was this tone in his voice, like, "Oh shit, now I'm gonna be getting exponentially greater numbers of orders which I can't fill on an item that I probably priced too low..." Anyway, I've never been in sales, so I'm just projecting here. I hope most of us realize that the best price on a piece of gear isn't always the best deal. I first started looking locally, at the music store I've done about 75% of my business with (when you have as meager a studio as I do, that doesn't amount to much). Unfortunately, they'd heard of the unit but never sold one, put me on perma-hold while they looked it up (this due to the aforementioned meager studio cash outlay) and so I quickly decided that it wasn't gonna be them this time. But I do see a real value in buying gear from a local outfit where one can establish a relationship. It just pays off down the line in more ways than need be elaborated upon here. Anyway, enough of this. I'll check in once I have Echoplex in hand. ciao -Lance From ???@??? Sun Apr 05 03:26:10 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 4 18:40:17 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLfLz-0001VU-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:40:15 -0800 Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 21:37:21 -0500 From: buzzard@world.std.com (Sean T Barrett) Message-Id: <199804050237.AA05669@world.std.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: LD site References: <199804042126.PAA00987@servidor.unam.mx> Resent-Message-ID: <"L1vfNC.A.oGB.i5uJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4883 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:40:15 -0800 X-UIDL: b7907a535e671b9cd32a7e85c8c68a1e >thanks for your patience, Our patience?! You provide us a wonderful free service, you bum! There's no excuse for impatience on our part. Three cheers for kim in his time of adversity! Sean From ???@??? Sun Apr 05 03:26:12 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 4 18:51:46 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLfX5-0002Y3-00; Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:51:43 -0800 From: PJBMHB Message-ID: <8e14d70f.3526f0f5@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 21:48:19 EST To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: new dod delay pedals Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"If8NOB.A.kLC.5EvJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4885 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 18:51:43 -0800 X-UIDL: 13a82dd8fc89eb64bfedcc7848c916eb has anyone tried one of the new dod delay pedals yet? how do these puppies sound? i used to have a digitech rack delay that could do some fun things....speed up, slow down, munchkins to monsters! can these pedals do the same thing? =-) PJ From ???@??? Sun Apr 05 03:26:16 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 5 00:26:12 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLkkk-0000eV-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 00:26:10 -0800 Message-ID: <352731B8.6C39@fredmarshall.com> Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 00:24:43 -0700 From: Fred Marshall Reply-To: fred@fredmarshall.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Sharing etiquette w/$$$ attached References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"X4OK0B.A.CZ.W-zJ1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4886 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 00:26:10 -0800 X-UIDL: 1bd22ce034e9b9549edecb032fe842c2 > >In a message dated 98-04-03 15:43:07 EST, someone wrote: ================= > > Last week I asked a simple question, "What is the going rate for a used > > JamMan?". I received not even ONE response. I would imagine that 80% > > of you have a good idea. Was my question too basic and "newbee" for all > > you pros? ================= - Do you call room service and have them dial "information" for you, rather than using the phone book? - and when (if) they do, how much do you tip them? mmmmm From ???@??? Sun Apr 05 10:37:51 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 5 05:40:32 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLoit-0007NW-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 05:40:31 -0700 Message-ID: <014c01bd608f$20970580$d43d2499@default> From: "Pete Gilbert" To: "Loopers Delight" Subject: jamman for sale Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 08:34:05 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"KFjpR.A.7vG.Ft3J1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4887 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 05:40:31 -0700 X-UIDL: 76f3a785966d6d285fe370ec882223f2 My buddy, Wes, has a Jamman for sale. The unit has expanded memory (32 seconds). Wes does not have net access, but you may contact him at 248 299 0146. -------- PeteGilbert@msn.com Visit the Michigan Stick Trio Web pages at: http://www.edict.com/mst/ From ???@??? Sun Apr 05 10:37:57 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 5 08:47:02 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLrdN-0005Ew-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 08:47:01 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLqd5-0007XJ-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 07:42:39 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLqd3-0002wz-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 07:42:37 -0700 Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 10:40:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199804051440.KAA13926@newman.concentric.net> X-Sender: hideo@pop3.concentric.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Tom Lambrecht Subject: Re: new dod delay pedals Resent-Message-ID: <"MTmcVC.A.2jC.Wf5J1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4888 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 07:42:37 -0700 X-UIDL: 5732370960796ea4d79639579c0a9b11 At 09:48 PM 4/4/98 EST, you wrote: >has anyone tried one of the new dod delay pedals yet? how do these puppies >sound? i used to have a digitech rack delay that could do some fun >things....speed up, slow down, munchkins to monsters! can these pedals do the >same thing? =-) PJ > > > I assume the new 8sec pedal will be the same as the 4sec (FX 94) in that it can do all that AND play reverse loops . . . I don't htink the 8sec is actually available yet . . . EXCEPT the pedals don't have the LFO to really add the final dimension of warpage to the sound like the Digitech time machines and how about that DOD Dimension Delay (24 secs total loop in 4-6sec. banks in a rack mount for $225 in Veneman's catalog (but only on the printed page--it apparently is not shipping yet). . . any one hear any word on when this guy is available? Tom Tom Lambrecht hideo@concentric.net From ???@??? Sun Apr 05 10:38:00 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 5 09:02:59 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLrsn-00060L-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 09:02:57 -0700 Message-ID: <01BD6071.2B57FEC0.lahatch@dnai.com> From: Laurie Hatch To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: Re: LD site and pass the hat... Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 08:59:02 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"92ohaB.A.wZF.cq6J1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4889 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 09:02:57 -0700 X-UIDL: 1e5f8985090b9026685f3e838a9cef83 >From: Sean T Barrett [SMTP:buzzard@world.std.com] >Sent: Saturday, April 04, 1998 6:37 PM > >> Kim: >>thanks for your patience, > >Our patience?! You provide us a wonderful >free service, you bum! There's no excuse >for impatience on our part. > >Three cheers for kim in his time of adversity! > >Sean Ya know, it's gonna be a while before the LD cd royalties start flowing. whadduya say, those of us who haven't already done so: let's roll some green Kim's way, give him at least some monetary help with this ISP mess. laurie >From lists@slip.net Sun Apr 05 09:07:34 1998 From ???@??? Sun Apr 05 10:38:01 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 5 09:07:34 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLrxE-0006UH-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 09:07:32 -0700 From: PJBMHB Message-ID: <18c404dc.3527ab70@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 12:03:58 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Send me money too...while you are at it!! =-) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 41 Resent-Message-ID: <"KLomQB.A.C2F.wu6J1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4890 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 09:07:32 -0700 X-UIDL: 1c4ec608c8b11ce74cb783af7734704e Please send me money too. I am poor and need more equipment! =-) PJ From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 01:12:38 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 5 21:40:56 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yM3iI-0007Kw-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 21:40:54 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 22:00:28 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Loop Show Page Resent-Message-ID: <"5MryE.A.lXG.HvFK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4895 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 21:40:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 0a940ad33d5306dde15d3ec7fa6af719 Just another little plug about the Loop Show in DC on April 18th. There's a site at: http://www.fingerpaint.net/Loop.html Three members of this list will be performing. Myslef with my partner as FingerPaint, Paul Militsch with Jody Janetta, and Siobahn CAnty and... You must chek out site of one of Siobahn musicians Eric "Doc" Smith. He's made an instrument called the Drumstick. There's a very cool photo at his site which is linked to the Loop Show Site. If this performance is successful, we will be able to set up more Loop Shows. So I urge all of the DC locals to attend this show. Patrick *** *** ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html *** ** From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 01:12:48 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 00:06:01 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yM5yh-0006tR-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 00:05:59 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLzUX-0002xc-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 17:10:25 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yLzUS-00068a-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 17:10:20 -0700 Message-ID: <35281CCF.5B0F@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 19:07:43 -0500 From: Mike Artemenko X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Jamman VS. Plex References: <3526437F.44E5E278@bellsouth.net> <3526953B.5B54@delphi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xTQaTD.A.UhF.UzBK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4891 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 17:10:20 -0700 X-UIDL: 11c053cea61594de62976f5b23614e0a Hi all, Is there anything that the Jamman can do that the Echoplex can't? Thanks for any insight. Mike From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 01:12:34 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 5 19:53:54 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yM22j-0000Li-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 19:53:53 -0700 From: JJavid Message-ID: <1577ad2a.352842c8@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 22:49:42 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: New DOD pedal? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.7 for Mac sub 3 Resent-Message-ID: <"3HPD8B.A.2TH.MMEK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4892 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 19:53:53 -0700 X-UIDL: b97226f7178d94d1b8edc8fc1f927209 Hello Loopers, Has anyone tried the new 8 second DOD pedal yet? I'm not currently on the list, so if you could E-mail me at JJavid@aol.com, I would appreciate it. David Hoping to be a Echo-plex owner in a few months :) From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 01:12:37 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 5 21:02:56 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yM37X-0004aR-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 21:02:55 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980406025741.0097be58@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: gls@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 21:57:41 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Grover Sheffield Subject: Re: LD site and pass the hat... Resent-Message-ID: <"gRUF.A.NCE.NNFK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4893 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 21:02:55 -0700 X-UIDL: e1ee12a33ed13ac9169ede326215dd77 Okay. It's worth some $ to me. Address?? > >Ya know, it's gonna be a while before the LD cd royalties start flowing. > whadduya say, those of us who haven't already done so: let's roll some green >Kim's way, give him at least some monetary help with this ISP mess. > >laurie > > > From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 01:12:38 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 5 21:38:08 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yM3fZ-0006zM-00; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 21:38:05 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980405223453.0069b84c@mail.txdirect.net> X-Sender: zom@mail.txdirect.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 22:34:53 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: zom Subject: web rings? In-Reply-To: <18c404dc.3527ab70@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"oD0ngC.A.XLG.etFK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4894 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 21:38:05 -0700 X-UIDL: 791dc31f9586631f568550fbfa4446d5 Anyone know of loop-based or ambient web rings? VERY curious....seen some good things in Ring-land, and some really lame ones, like the Hanson web ring.... anyway....adding new RA experiments to the page tonight, addy below; http://www.txdirect.net/users/zom/ DIY electronic music, Zineage, and more: http://www.txdirect.net/users/zom/ From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 09:36:18 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 01:30:39 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yM7Ib-0002sZ-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:30:37 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yM7IY-0004lZ-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:30:34 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yM7IX-0002s8-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:30:33 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:27:33 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: new echoplex faq version Resent-Message-ID: <"uOCg8D.A.geC.aIJK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4896 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 01:30:33 -0700 X-UIDL: f6ee911aca9b03b5d1723ea20db16d3b Hi, I just updated the echoplex FAQ on the website a bit, for those interested. Of course, my domain name is busted at the moment, but when it's fixed you can see it here: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/echoplex/FAQ.html the alternative url, which works now is: http://www.slip.net/~kflint/loop/tools/echoplex/FAQ.html I've got a big pile of question/answers to add to the FAQ still, so hopefully it will be seeing more updates soon. Since people are actually able to buy echoplexes again, I'm hoping to preempt all the inevitable new user questions before they get to me.....:-) kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 11:07:07 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 09:47:42 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMF3b-0002dp-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:47:39 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMF3Z-0007mg-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:47:37 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMF3R-0002cc-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:47:29 -0700 Message-ID: <3528B09F.ED638302@nyfac.com> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 11:38:23 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: simulations, etc, long and winding ramble, part #1 References: <199804021229.AA16762@world.std.com> <199804031436.AA08967@world.std.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"--ebJC.A.oFB.5SQK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4902 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:47:29 -0700 X-UIDL: 8d27c30a6224799644d2e99479d43fbb > >I had a drum machine for about three years before I had regular access to a > >drum kit- in six months, I was twice as good at the real thing than on the > >machine (except for the timing thing- oops!). > > Well, "except for the timing thing" is kind of a crucial bit. > After several years of drumming, I certainly couldn't come close > to my drum machines ability to play 32-nd note fills at 144 bpm > in a 13/8 song. I'm not sure I could understand 32nd note fills at 144bpm in 13/8. : ) > Anyway, I'm not really sure how this connects to the complaint > about MIDI not being expressive enough--I'm not sure > if you're being pro- or con-. I not really pro or anti midi. I just know that (with the notable exception of controller data) I have had little or no success in getting to work for me. Lots of other people do, and I even like some of it. I just can't. I have a cello, which sounds like a harp seal pup being beaten when I play it, and I know damn well I love a well played cello. > Where to start? It's about _the music_. You know, it's funny, but everyone says this, but no one seems to believe it. It's like when people answer a band flier you have up. (this conversation, to the best of my ability to reconstruct it, is real) 'So, what did you like about the flier?' you ask. 'I just thought, you know, I uh, felt like we could, you know, have a connection... And I really like Neil Young a lot.' 'Know any of the other bands? Slint? Sonic Youth? Ornette Coleman?' 'Uh, no.' 'So, what kind of stuff are you into?' 'Oh, all kinds.' You finally find out that all kinds of music means Bon Jovi (the band) and Jon Bon Jovi (the solo artist). For those of you who never experienced this, I envy you. We play all kinds of music here: Country, and western. But you are right. It IS about the music. It's just who's version of the music that is the question. It's a good one, I haven't got a clue. > Is music particularly distinctive from other forms > of artistic endeavor? Probably not; or rather all > of the non-verbal arts (music & visual art) are > probably radically distinguishable from the others. > Interestingly, though, music is still very different from > visual art. For example, both music and books are > basically linear; most visual art is not. Additionally, > music is an "enforced" linear; the listener is > forced to proceed apace, unlike books (although if > you listen to spoken literature, this aspect of the > experience will change). Ever listen to one of your favorite books on audiotape? I used to sneer at them, until I was trapped in a car and forced to listen to one. The experience is unbelievable. I read very, very, very fast. I can finish a 350 page Robert Parker novel in about three hours. (Sartre take a while longer, but what can you do. I've been reading Nausea for about three years....) It reminds me of that guy in Idoru (W. Gibson, pretty good book) who has attention deficit disorder, but because of some drug trails he took as a kid, he is able to become pathological focused on very limited types of information for long periods of time. So, I forget the book, 'Sexus', maybe, but hearing it aloud opens up a world of nuance that I ordinarily miss in my usual literary sack and pillage. Pacing is amazing. The whole linear/non-linear experience thing has had me thinking about something other than guitar and female companionship lately. (I must be getting old and slowing down.) I'm not really sure what I'm thinking, but, when I do, I'll let you know. But the veiwing of a painting is not entirely non-linear: the eye is, more likely than not, guided purposly across the painting, to very specific points. Also, one can only view so much detail at a time- examining a painting up close is a very different experience that veiwing from a few steps back. Step back further and the experience is changed again. You have to select what you are going to experience, while filtering out other possible experiences. Likewise, music is not entirely linear either. There is melody, counter melody, rhythm, bass lines, lyrical content (on those rare occasions that there is any) are all experienced simultaineously: I have a hard time experiencing more than a few of these things at once, but you can toggle between verying locusses at any time. From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 09:36:47 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 08:41:01 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yME13-0002MA-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:40:57 -0700 Message-ID: <3528E589.9F33FF5A@vtx.ch> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 16:24:09 +0200 From: Claude Voit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight Subject: Newborn looper in Switzerland Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vZAGe.A.GpB.2ZPK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4898 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:40:57 -0700 X-UIDL: 38a33c8509a70dda787bc19c36013ccc Dear everyone After waiting 1 1/2 year I finally received my looping tools today after a no problem delivery: 2 beautiful white twins As down Thomas was sometimes ago as high I am now (^"^) (I can feel that sarcastic smile from you older shamans) just wanted to say that you helped me a lot during the wait with your funny vocabulary "do you pitch the patch in switchquant with your DAW when feeling trapped in nextloop mood or what ?" Had 1 1/2 year to study the about every thing published on plexes but I don't remember this fun trick I just found (I can feel that sarcastic smile..etc...) I run two plexes in brother sync and in sync with the computer plex 1 is master plex 2 is slave normally the master commands the slave (which is...normal) if you begin to overdub with plex 2 manually on the front panel the next press of overdub (on the plex footswitch) will toggle the overdub function between plex 1 and 2 meaning at each press, you input new material to the left then to the right creating sort of question response phrases the last overdub in this state must be ended on front panel of plex 2 Again thanks to Kim, Mathias, Oberheim/Gibson, Rick at Bananas, and you all out there Girls and bOYS A bientot Claude -- Please correct the reply address by deleting this "----" Veuillez corriger mon adresse pour me rŽpondre en effaŤant Ťa "----" From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 09:36:52 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 09:00:30 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMEJr-0004uB-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:00:23 -0700 Message-ID: <215C1D5A0FFDD011B3CC00805FC18C292D67DB@ntsrv2.lexicon.com> From: "Hogan, Greg (Exchange)" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Lexicon MPX100 Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:50:21 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"uB3dDC.A.6jD.KpPK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4900 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:00:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 2b6863225e69dde20c4d21f27b823463 About the MPX 100 Michael Hughes(of the many Michaels) wrote:I've asked this before.... 5.7 secs .... tap tempo ..... so DOES IT LOOP? > If not, WHY NOT??? And can it be expanded beyond 5.7s? And if you > set up a loop on the 5.7 sec delay and change programs, will the loop > carry over?" > Yes, Michael, you can loop the 5.7 seconds. The memory is not expandable and there is no loop spillover available. Travis asked: "Is this supposed to be $1249.00?" No, Travis, US$249.00 is the correct price. and then John asked:"when will Lexicon drop production on it?" Well, John, if our experience with JAMMAN and Vortex are any indication, we will stop producing the MPX 100 when we have a warehouse full of product that is not moving! As this box will include reverb, all indications are that this will not be a problem as Lexicon has never had any trouble selling any product that contains reverb! Thank you all for your interest and best regards, Greg Hogan Lexicon Customer Service Phone +781-280-0372 FAX +781-280-0499 From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 09:36:51 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 08:55:15 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMEEo-0004AJ-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:55:10 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMEEn-00050n-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:55:09 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMEEb-00048E-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:54:57 -0700 Message-ID: <3528FA1F.8FF4D045@intcpi.com> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 11:51:59 -0400 From: jprice@intcpi.com (John Price) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pharlan@efn.org CC: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, msottila@mailbox.syr.edu Subject: Re: Price sharing etiquette References: <35256393.B22C3AF9@mailbox.syr.edu> <35258DF1.7ECD@efn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"sC1KHB.A.GDD.ZlPK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4899 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:54:57 -0700 X-UIDL: 73b547f41f20ebabd166411eeffcf4fd I got my gr-30 new/ w/ a gk-2a for $650 from 8th street music in Dwntwn Philly just 4 weeks ago. Since we are in the mood for sharing secret price info: Call 215.923.5040. Ask for a guy named Andre- he's their pro audio guy & he knows his shit and will ultimately hook you up with the phattest equip on the planet whether youre a looper or a shredder or a raver. Good Deals can be had especially if you are patient, thorough & knowledgeable about what the prices are for the dealer ( I use the 150-200 buck markup as a win-win point on price relevant to a Brand New mid - high ticket item aka. something that is generally priced over the $500 but under $950 mark, ie. a gr-30 or a mc505, ya know ). If you can find a Local/Family run Mid to small sized retail place that is willing to work with you and see that you will be a consistent customer for the long haul, you'll find Music Stores are often more than willing to cut their margins if they see they will make it up in volume from you. A good price also depends on the product and demand. And never be afraid of considering used. Just be extra cautious and thorough if buying used. It often helps to only buy used from a location that is close in proximity to you with a very decent and long standing reputation. Somethin that is a niche product that is say very top shelf in quality and price like a gr-30 usually sits and sits forever in someones inventory unless the region or reputation of the Store is one that caters to folks that make extensive use of such products. Also, when you see something you like think about it ( not forever ) but think and shop around and get quotes in writing. I'm never ashamed of playing one vendor off the other though w/the relationship I have with 8th. Street, I rarely have to do that. No one has beat 8th street prices on anything as of late. Peter Harlan wrote: > And, if you really look around, you can sometimes find deals that > indicate the markups must be substantial. For example, the Roland > GR-30 lists for $895 (without the GK-2A pickup). zZounds and Synthony > are selling this for $599 and $600, respectively. Even deeper > discounts can be found on the GK-2A, though I don't have the figures > anymore because I'm not looking for one now. But do the math. > From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 11:07:05 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 09:40:48 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMEwv-0001fm-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:40:45 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMEwu-0007Ij-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:40:44 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMEwk-0001eA-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:40:34 -0700 From: ANET Message-ID: <702d7157.35290366@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:31:31 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: 3rd CD Project Update Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"kFry1D.A.0g.oOQK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4901 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:40:34 -0700 X-UIDL: 72e271af3c65949a1da17ac53e828eef Greetings to all; The 3rd CD project has been receiving quite a number of submissions to date. Some of the entries are superb and quite frankly, some need to be remixed. Within the next week or so, everyone will be receiving a note commenting on your submission. The purpose of the note will be to encourage you first, and secondly to provide an honest critique of the submission. I will be posting some new information concerning acceptable and unacceptable submissions at the site. The project is not filtering submissions based on content, but rather quality. If the overall quality of each submission does not meet the quality of the others, then we have some problems which reflect negatively on the entire project. The project highly encourages quality factors such as low noise, good levels throughout the recording, good EQ etc. The project also highly encourages the elimination of glaring and or obivous mistakes. Some of the submissions included clicking loops and loops which were obiously punched in at the wrong time (which makes for a very obvious cadence problem everytime the loop recycles), as well as wrong notes being played (I don't think there were any attempts at actual disharmony, a study in and of itself). Some of the material can be cut out or edited here; however, it really is your production and the submission is yours. So, with that, keep in mind that the submission you make will be locked onto the CD forever. It is also a reflection of this site and other musicians on the CD. As such you owe the project and the site some quality work. The 3rd project will not compromise the quality factors as we want it to stand on its own. With this said, the project is extending the deadline for another month, and is still open for submissions as some may not make the CD. It would be nice to receive some material that included vocals. Regards; John Peters 3rd CD Project Page From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 11:07:14 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 10:12:11 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMFRI-0005jx-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:12:08 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMFRJ-0001ej-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:12:09 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMFRA-0005j4-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:12:00 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980406120213.00994440@mail.purity.com> X-Sender: tcweller@mail.purity.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 12:02:13 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Travis Weller Subject: multiple concurrent loops Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"byhhVB.A.GtE.kuQK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4903 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:12:00 -0700 X-UIDL: 088c3ea5775109bd506d407bc0683001 Hello, I would like to playback multiple seperate loops concurrently with an EDP. One application for this would be using one loop as a foundation with feedback at 100% while repeatedly overdubbing on a second loop at the same time with it's feedback set lower. This would cause the second loop to gradually change shape while the foundation (loop 1) remains consistant. Another possibility would be running many loops of varying lengths at the same time. Depending on how you set it up, they would go in and out of phase with eachother creating polyrhythmic relationships. Something like this: (where "|" is the end of the loop and "-" is loop data) |----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----| |-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| |-----------|-----------|-----------|-----------|-----------| My question: Is this possible with a single Echoplex? Thanks, Travis. From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 01:20:32 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 11:24:38 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMGZP-0006vT-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:24:35 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMGZ7-0005jU-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:24:17 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMGZ0-0006tO-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:24:10 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980406120213.00994440@mail.purity.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:08:32 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: multiple concurrent loops Resent-Message-ID: <"Vo03zC.A.3kE.DpRK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4905 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:24:10 -0700 X-UIDL: 92bcd41d5f0139322ab5c4080d420e37 You can only do this with one echoplex, if you layer the multiple loops on top of each other. The total loop length would have to be the lowest common multiple of the individual loop lengths. However, then you can't use different feedback settings for the different loops. Of course, this is easy (and expensive!) with multiple Echoplexi. - Chris >I would like to playback multiple seperate loops concurrently with an EDP. >One application for this would be using one loop as a foundation with >feedback at 100% while repeatedly overdubbing on a second loop at the same >time with it's feedback set lower. This would cause the second loop to >gradually change shape while the foundation (loop 1) remains consistant. > >Another possibility would be running many loops of varying lengths at the >same time. Depending on how you set it up, they would go in and out of >phase with eachother creating polyrhythmic relationships. Something like this: > >(where "|" is the end of the loop and "-" is loop data) > >|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----| >|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| >|-----------|-----------|-----------|-----------|-----------| > >My question: Is this possible with a single Echoplex? > >Thanks, >Travis. __________________________________________________ Chris Chovit avec@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov AVIRIS Experiment Coordinator pager #: (888) 415-4547 From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 01:20:38 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 11:55:32 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMH3E-0003Hs-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:55:24 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMH3A-0007k0-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:55:20 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMH2y-0003Fp-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:55:08 -0700 Message-Id: <199804061712.KAA25050@scv4.apple.com> Subject: Re: multiple concurrent loops Date: Mon, 6 Apr 98 12:13:38 -0500 x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: "T.W. Hartnett" To: "Looper's Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"oCXI9B.A.j6.eESK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4909 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:55:08 -0700 X-UIDL: 5de7ab700c591167c1e55b66d84a0e95 >I would like to playback multiple seperate loops concurrently with an EDP. >One application for this would be using one loop as a foundation with >feedback at 100% while repeatedly overdubbing on a second loop at the same >time with it's feedback set lower. This would cause the second loop to >gradually change shape while the foundation (loop 1) remains consistant. > >Another possibility would be running many loops of varying lengths at the >same time. Depending on how you set it up, they would go in and out of >phase with eachother creating polyrhythmic relationships. Something like >this: > >(where "|" is the end of the loop and "-" is loop data) > >|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----| >|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| >|-----------|-----------|-----------|-----------|-----------| > >My question: Is this possible with a single Echoplex? Nope. Travis Hartnett From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 01:20:40 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 12:01:38 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMGlw-0000sS-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:37:32 -0700 From: "Bailey, Jim" To: 'matthew hahn' , "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: RE: Birds in our trees Date:Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:22:00 -0400 Message-ID: <35290DF8@199.71.37.25> Encoding: 21 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Resent-Message-ID: <"6b-aQ.A.zwG.p5RK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4907 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:37:32 -0700 X-UIDL: 5003b860cfc87f30dae50bac65003c57 One last question or two, does anybody here know of someone who has done something completely with birds, animals, samples environmental that was percussive as these birds were, and last has here anybody used bird calls and why? Was it for a particualar mood, for example. Mjh Hope I'm not chiming in too late on this, but I've been trying to catch up on things. Although it's not entirely natural sounds, I'm surprised no-one's mentioned "Granchester Meadows" by Roger Waters on Pink Floyd's ' 70 album "Ummagumma." There is a loop of a bird running all the way through it. Also, an album which I believe WAS actually made entirely with the sound of insects is "The Insect Musicians" by Graeme Revell (of SPK). The sounds were heavily modified (with lots of looping, no doubt) and end up sounding very electronic, and sometimes even orchestral. Well worth checking out. Jim Bailey From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 01:20:35 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 11:26:41 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMGbJ-0007Af-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:26:33 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMGbC-0005tP-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:26:26 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMGax-00077W-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:26:11 -0700 Message-ID: <19980406180654.16374.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:06:54 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rev. Doubt-Goat" Subject: Re: LD site To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"RMGCpD.A.SyE.uqRK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4906 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:26:11 -0700 X-UIDL: e00e71ddddd24c5d62284c1c30516e79 93 ---Sean T Barrett wrote: > > >thanks for your patience, > > Our patience?! You provide us a wonderful > free service, you bum! There's no excuse > for impatience on our part. > > Three cheers for kim in his time of adversity! > > Sean Add me to that list! 93 Rev. Doubt-GOat _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 01:20:37 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 11:51:32 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMGzL-0002jz-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:51:23 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMGzA-0007Us-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:51:12 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMGyq-0002fw-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:50:52 -0700 From: ANET Message-ID: <53ffed48.35292041@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:34:38 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Lexicon MPX100 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"S4NAvC.A.2p.gCSK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4908 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:50:53 -0700 X-UIDL: 7e37f9c2970a32149e3b5e06cb969dc0 In a message dated 98-04-06 12:00:21 EDT, you write: > > Well, John, if our experience with JAMMAN and Vortex are any indication, > we will stop producing the MPX 100 when we have a warehouse full of > product that is not moving! As this box will include reverb, all > indications are that this will not be a problem as Lexicon has never had > any trouble selling any product that contains reverb! > Greg, just have to give you a little grief. Sounds like a great product, where can we buy them and when? Any direct sales? Any Web sites to examine the specs? Have you heard it and what is your honest opinion. Midi controllable, right? Any new loop based gear on the horizon, we keep waiting for the next generation JM, but never see it? I know, buy an Echoplex or Eventide. Thanks to Kim, I probably will. Oh, buy-the-way, where does one go to buy an Echoplex? I don't think I've seen any postings on that. Regards; John Peters From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 09:36:27 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 05:41:54 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMBDi-0005Mw-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 05:41:50 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980406114711.26b73b5e@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 11:47:11 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." Subject: Re: Jamman VS. Plex In-Reply-To: <35281CCF.5B0F@ix.netcom.com> References: <3526437F.44E5E278@bellsouth.net> <3526953B.5B54@delphi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"VpDuG.A.wwE.rzMK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4897 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 05:41:50 -0700 X-UIDL: 964dbcba676e5fd404b63fb2d24ee864 YET ANOTHER Michael: > Is there anything that the Jamman can do that the Echoplex can't? I can't answer that, as I've only ever used the JM - however, they probably represent differences in approach rather than "which is better?" As it stands the EDP beats the JM hands dowm though there may be a few things that the JM can do, though there are ways to get at them. The recent "JM in delay mode" thread probably indicates there are some things the JM can do that the EDP does _differently_ - such as multiply and divide. Remember also that the JM costs half of what the EDP does, so don't expect too much. Michael From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 01:20:41 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 12:03:35 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMHB1-0004P1-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:03:27 -0700 Message-ID: <000601bd618c$74edd020$e922dacf@earthlight> Reply-To: "Stephen P. Goodman" From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Re: Birds in our trees Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:47:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"9ZpHeC.A.lLC.qNSK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4910 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:03:27 -0700 X-UIDL: a5f708f20d59270c85fd50d44a5945bf Hi Folks! Jim Bailey commented: >Hope I'm not chiming in too late on this, but I've been trying to catch >up on things. Although it's not entirely natural sounds, I'm surprised >no-one's mentioned "Granchester Meadows" by Roger Waters on Pink Floyd's >' 70 album "Ummagumma." There is a loop of a bird running all the way >through it. That very bird loop shows up on a number of Pink Floyd albums actually. It's on The Wall, in several places (and I also remember hearing it in the concert as well); and Animals as well, on the "Dogs" side. I remember being disappointed in the Animals collection, by the way, because I had been expecting something of a full-on take on George Orwell's "Animal Farm". Alas. However! This weekend's Loop Of The Week will be addressing this issue, as well as others, as a matter of fact. I'm going to incorporate birds into it, as a hint. Nee-ha! Stephen Goodman * It's... The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 01:20:48 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 12:47:51 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMHrn-0002Oo-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:47:44 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMHri-00038G-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:47:34 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMHrS-0002Ly-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:47:18 -0700 Message-ID: <215C1D5A0FFDD011B3CC00805FC18C292D67E4@ntsrv2.lexicon.com> From: "Hogan, Greg (Exchange)" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Lexicon MPX100 Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 15:17:01 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"J03Q-B.A.jq.o5SK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4912 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:47:18 -0700 X-UIDL: cea919d4fb751291cd9ffafb16588d10 From John came: "Sounds like a great product, where can we buy them and when? Any direct sales? Any Web sites to examine the specs? Have you heard it and what is your honest opinion. Midi > controllable, right? > > Any new loop based gear on the horizon, we keep waiting for the next > generation JM, but never see it?" > The MPX 100 will be shipping next month and will be available at all music retailers that carry Lexicon products. I do not know if the specs are posted at www.lexicon.com yet or not. I know that there was something at www.harmonycentral.com but I don't believe that the specs are there yet either. I have heard it and my opinion is that it would sound great at any price but will not be beat for the price and yes, it is MIDI controllable. I am not aware of any plans for a JAMMAN replacement or second generation. There will be 20 seconds of mono or 10 seconds of stereo looping within the MPX G2 which will be shipping in the third quarter of this year. It will loop but you will not have the multiple loop features that are found in the dedicated loopers. Best regards, Greg From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 01:20:45 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 12:32:33 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMHd7-0000P2-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:32:29 -0700 Message-ID: <35292AE0.43C5@efn.org> Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 12:20:00 -0700 From: Peter Harlan Reply-To: pharlan@efn.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Birds in our trees References: <35290DF8@199.71.37.25> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"oIHvdC.A.PcG.CuSK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4911 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:32:29 -0700 X-UIDL: d5c0a098f7a527920a073218584f3cd6 Bailey, Jim wrote: > One last question or two, does anybody here know of someone who has done > something completely with birds, animals, samples environmental that was > percussive as these birds were, and last has here anybody used bird calls > and why? Was it for a particualar mood, for example. This is probably not what you're looking for, but there was a prolific French composer named Olivier Messiaen who incorporated bird calls into many of his works. He wrote primarily organ and choral works as I recall. Interesting person, very eccentric, a mystic. For something completely different, there's Paul Winter and the various animal and bird voices he's used over the years. By the way, on one recording which I'm sorry to say I can't identify (having just heard this on the radio in my car), he uses the song of some Amazon River bird (think that's right) which is truly amazing. It is without a doubt the most beautiful bird song I've ever heard, and had I not heard it, I wouldn't have ever imagined a bird could produce shuch sounds. If anybody knows what album this is from, please let me know! From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 01:20:55 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 13:39:48 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMIg6-0000vO-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:39:38 -0700 From: Marzzz Message-ID: <11318eb7.352935de@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 16:06:52 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Newborn looper in Switzerland Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Resent-Message-ID: <"SjGJGC.A.7bG.xoTK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4915 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:39:38 -0700 X-UIDL: db1c03ba0059abf390f22eab3f89a1b5 In a message dated 4/6/98 10:41:39 AM, you wrote: >After waiting 1 1/2 year I finally received my looping tools today after >a no problem delivery: 2 beautiful white twins doesn't it normally take 9 months? congratulations..... Marshall From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 01:20:54 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 13:22:12 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMIP6-0006Qu-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:22:04 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMIP5-0005AH-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:22:03 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMIOl-0006Nv-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:21:43 -0700 From: Marzzz Message-ID: <638a0539.35293735@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 16:12:35 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ghogan@lexicon.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: RE: Lexicon MPX100 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Resent-Message-ID: <"vnkEiC.A.JCF.2dTK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4913 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:21:43 -0700 X-UIDL: 7161ebdcb6a3ba6b6da6487ae648321d In a message dated 4/6/98 2:44:47 PM, Greg wrote: >I am not aware of any plans for a JAMMAN replacement or second >generation. There will be 20 seconds of mono or 10 seconds of stereo >looping within the MPX G2 which will be shipping in the third quarter of >this year. It will loop but you will not have the multiple loop >features that are found in the dedicated loopers. Oh, I got the impression from the trade magazines it was coming out this spring.....??? Marshall From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 01:20:54 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 13:39:07 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMIfQ-0000px-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:38:56 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMIey-00066N-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:38:28 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMIeQ-0000hl-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:37:55 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980406202046.009d35c0@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 13:20:46 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" From: Kim Flint Subject: RE: Lexicon MPX100 Resent-Message-ID: <"H-WYaD.A.nTG.0nTK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4914 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:37:55 -0700 X-UIDL: 77d304781b3ae71b5388b3fa8fb5772a At 03:17 PM 4/6/98 -0400, Hogan, Greg (Exchange) wrote: >MPX G2 which will be shipping in the third quarter of this year. whoa! talk about yer vaporware! Must commend you guys on that one, nice bit of marketing artistry. Of course, you'd have to do much better than that to match some of the things I've been involved in..... :-) kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact Systems Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 01:21:15 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 17:44:31 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.21] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMMV2-000754-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:44:28 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMMV2-0004AN-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:44:29 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMMUv-00074a-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:44:21 -0700 Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:45:18 +0200 Message-Id: <199804062145.XAA02111@dada.it> X-Sender: cavallo@mail.dada.it X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: e.coco@fi.flashnet.it From: Leonardo Cavallo Subject: new e-mail address Cc: angelada@yahoo.com, mc8989@mclink.it, francesca.sm@fi.flashnet.it, f.belli@fi.flashnet.it, francehp@online.no, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, vit0202@comune.bologna.it, leoser@dinonet.it (ANPAS (Leonardo / Sergio)), stick@earthlink.net, stickwire-l@netcom.com, fernavarro@hotmail.com, sellon@mediaone.net, calissi@dada.it, mc7735@mclink.it, giromella@dinonet.it, manent@aidanet.com, stzabeo@tin.it, mannucci@dada.it, emme@dada.it, qme@pluto.dic.unipd.it, edoardof@usa.net, nicomonguzzi@vtx.ch, fn026107@flashnet.it, ginicosi@gol.grosseto.it, voulaz@korg.it Resent-Message-ID: <"OEu7nC.A.vFG.oXXK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4917 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:44:21 -0700 X-UIDL: e12befc1fa7de78fb3be0475cb2b388a hi, my new e-mail address is: Leonardo Cavallo ciao From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 01:21:12 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 17:13:27 1998 Received: from falcon (falcon.slip.net) [207.171.193.27] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMM0o-0003Er-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:13:15 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMM0k-0002XV-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:13:10 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMM0L-0003AG-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:12:45 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980406190543.006ceba8@mail.utexas.edu> X-Sender: esker@mail.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 19:05:43 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthew hahn Subject: Re: Newborn looper in Switzerland In-Reply-To: <11318eb7.352935de@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"elMVC.A.mBC.f2WK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4916 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 17:12:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 973e6576336108f28ecfe13ff8ba3900 Ha ha ha ha >In a message dated 4/6/98 10:41:39 AM, you wrote: > >>After waiting 1 1/2 year I finally received my looping tools today after >>a no problem delivery: 2 beautiful white twins > >doesn't it normally take 9 months? congratulations..... > > >Marshall > > > From ???@??? Mon Apr 06 11:07:18 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 6 10:40:25 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMFsd-0001UM-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:40:23 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980406175914.200733b4@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 17:59:14 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." Subject: RE: Lexicon MPX100 In-Reply-To: <215C1D5A0FFDD011B3CC00805FC18C292D67DB@ntsrv2.lexicon.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"zLlxf.A.gH.CERK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4904 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:40:23 -0700 X-UIDL: da81413601668591ffbc2334ebc5d898 Greg: >Yes, Michael, you can loop the 5.7 seconds. Yay! >The memory is not expandable Boo! >and there is no loop spillover available. Boo! >Well, John, if our experience with JAMMAN and Vortex are any indication, >we will stop producing the MPX 100 when we have a warehouse full of >product that is not moving! As this box will include reverb, all >indications are that this will not be a problem as Lexicon has never had >any trouble selling any product that contains reverb! I never though the Vortex's problem was it's lack of reverb, more its lack of MIDI. It was the ONLY non-MIDI multiprocessor on the market at the time (and even now you're looking at the Deltafex etc). It would have just sat in a rack, not talking to the rest of the gear - which is a shame because the JM and Reflex WERE MIDI'd. This list may have loadsapeople who realise the box's potential enough to forgive its shortcomings, but that was quite a major shortcoming; it stopped building a dream system with these three units acting in concert. (Incidentally, the unit described in the Guitar & Bass Buyer's Guide - w/ MIDI and 2 amp switchers - sounded nigh-on perfect - which probably explains why that error sat on the listings for 3 years....) I'll admit that I was hoping the MPX100 was going to be "the Vortex, done right". Yeah, I know, I know, Lex _do_ make that, it's called the MPX1 and it's bloody expensive.... (whinge mode off) But really Greg, it's a neat piece of kit and I'm sure it'll flatten the competition (zoom? Peavey?). Michael From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 10:07:13 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 7 03:42:33 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMVpm-00021x-00; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:42:30 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 09:45:21 +0100 Message-ID: <00106ACD.1424@mail.bl.uk> From: David.Orton@mail.bl.uk (David Orton) Subject: Re[2]: Newborn looper in Switzerland To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"skenlB.A.frB.LKgK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4920 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 03:42:30 -0700 X-UIDL: 609c4972e1a3df02d9767daa5dca4854 Well obviously they're being run in series, so 9 months each equals 1.5 years, no? David >In a message dated 4/6/98 10:41:39 AM, you wrote: > >>After waiting 1 1/2 year I finally received my looping tools today after >>a no problem delivery: 2 beautiful white twins > >doesn't it normally take 9 months? congratulations..... > > >Marshall > > > From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 10:07:53 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 7 08:13:01 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMa3X-0001NS-00; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:12:59 -0700 Message-ID: <3529ED8B.19D5F662@nyfac.com> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 10:10:36 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Newborn looper in Switzerland References: <3.0.1.32.19980406190543.006ceba8@mail.utexas.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"qNBht.A.h0.QGkK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4921 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:12:59 -0700 X-UIDL: 69ef817a495d2f65f1aa230ad7a5178c > >In a message dated 4/6/98 10:41:39 AM, you wrote: > > > >>After waiting 1 1/2 year I finally received my looping tools today after > >>a no problem delivery: 2 beautiful white twins > > > >doesn't it normally take 9 months? congratulations..... I'm just glad they don't look like the mailman.... Trevor From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 10:07:55 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 7 08:19:57 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMaAC-0002Ej-00; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:19:52 -0700 Message-ID: <3529EF0E.6799568@nyfac.com> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 10:17:02 +0100 From: tdbajus Reply-To: nyfac2@nyfac.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: LD site and pass the hat... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rYde0C.A.NjB.OMkK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4922 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 08:19:52 -0700 X-UIDL: 0677c6798bf533321e3d2b649c3415c7 As I am now bandless, this is a selfless act... I think that what we should try to do is help promote each other. How are the draws on the loop shows going? I would have little or no objection to having an guest from SF (seems where half the people on the list are from) is from here in NYC, so that they could have their own American tour... I know we have some folks in Texas, right? Has to be someone LA, DC, etc. OK? Wouldn't seem to be such a hard thing to do, so long as no one abuses it. What do you girls think of the whole round robin idea? Trevor PS: is Kim Flint the next Andre Bazin? Only time will tell. From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 02:52:32 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 7 02:38:15 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMUpY-0007KC-00; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 02:38:12 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980406025741.0097be58@pop.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 02:33:42 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: LD site and pass the hat... Resent-Message-ID: <"XFL83.A.TjG.kNfK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4919 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 02:38:12 -0700 X-UIDL: 7468fe0d8f454bf9ace8833bb5865c68 Status: O X-Status: At 9:57 PM -0500 4/5/98, Grover Sheffield wrote: >Okay. It's worth some $ to me. Address?? > >> >>Ya know, it's gonna be a while before the LD cd royalties start flowing. >> whadduya say, those of us who haven't already done so: let's roll some >>green >>Kim's way, give him at least some monetary help with this ISP mess. >> >>laurie hey thanks, I really appreciate the offer! If you are interested in helping out however, what I really prefer is time! If you can find some time to write an article and contribute it to the website, or do anything else that strikes your fancy, that would be truly helpful. Looper's Delight is mostly created by people volunteering their efforts, and the more volunteers we have adding things, the better it gets! So scratch your noggin and think of something you can do! If you can't think of anything, there are plenty of loose projects floating around that you are more than welcome to take on. If you have no time, and would still like to help out with a little cash, that's perfectly alright with me. This stuff doesn't run for free. Hopefully we'll have Looper's Delight cd project profits paying for it in the near future, but in the mean time it comes from my pocket. If you want to help out, send me private mail and we can make some arrangement. thanks! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 07 02:35:14 1998 >From kflint Tue Apr 7 02:18:21 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMUWK-0006Nd-00; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 02:18:20 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980407105943.0dcf5558@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 10:59:43 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." Subject: Re: multiple concurrent loops In-Reply-To: <199804061712.KAA25050@scv4.apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"q0Sc8C.A.kxF.V7eK1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4918 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 02:18:20 -0700 X-UIDL: 93c42884d48efa12c3c03b8d03bee8ec >>Another possibility would be running many loops of varying lengths at the >>same time. Depending on how you set it up, they would go in and out of >>phase with eachother creating polyrhythmic relationships. Something like >>this: >> >>(where "|" is the end of the loop and "-" is loop data) >> >>|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----| >>|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| >>|-----------|-----------|-----------|-----------|-----------| >> >>My question: Is this possible with a single Echoplex? Something similar (but not identical) can be done with the JamMan in Delay mode - set up a loop, then make a larger loop of any length made up of the smaller loop. Or make a big loop and cut it at a non-looppoint point (if you see what I mean). Michael From ???@??? Wed Apr 08 09:40:49 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 8 08:25:13 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMwiq-0000nI-00; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:25:08 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:17:20 -0700 Message-ID: <000B8340.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re: bye for now... To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com, Goddess Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"k2Gex.A.pM.-W5K1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4924 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:25:08 -0700 X-UIDL: 2bc8b24e3235555577574573e7c4dc91 Sorry to see you go, Corynne, but I know how it is! I've enjoyed your comments and lightness here. You'll be missed. All the best in life and music! -Miko ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: bye for now... Author: Goddess at INTERNET Date: 9/12/97 1:43 AM Hello again, my replies lately have been few and far-between and usually pretty short. My life is turning some pretty intense corners of late and on most days, the volume of mail I get from the list when added to whatever I haven't previously gotten to read, becomes too much for me to handle. I mean the amount, not the content. lol! So I'm saying bye for now and am temporarily leaving the list. I'd love to keep chatting with those of you who have shown an interest in my posts or just want to say "hi" or talk so please feel free to write me at this e_mail address: thefates@concentric.net I hope to talk with everyone soon as this list can be a very good resource and has some pretty nice people on it. See you all soon... Bye for now, smiles, Corynne From ???@??? Thu Apr 09 00:17:34 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 8 10:49:33 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMyyY-0002ax-00; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:49:30 -0700 Sender: randy@cdac.com Message-ID: <352B9FC3.44C8FA67@cdac.com> Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 09:03:15 -0700 From: Randy Reichenbach Organization: Cascade Design Automation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Sharing etiquette w/$$$ attached References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tIqPaC.A.EiB.Yc7K1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4927 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:49:30 -0700 X-UIDL: ade607292bfd58fe58cad803f7aaabe8 Patrick Smith wrote: > > >In a message dated 98-04-03 15:43:07 EST, you write: > > > > > > > Last week I asked a simple question, "What is the going rate for a used > > JamMan?". I received not even ONE response. I would imagine that 80% > > of you have a good idea. Was my question too basic and "newbee" for all > > you pros? > > > I've been on this list for a couple of years now and seldom post. Most of > this is due tro an extremely busy life. I always enjoy the thoughful posts > by the likes of Kim, Sean B, Andre, but I tend to MEAN to add something > and.... > > Anyhow to your query which I never even read, I recently bought a jam man > with 32 seconds for $350. Two months ago I sold one with 8 seconds for > $500. So there's some trivia for ya. > > Many times I have to do a wholesale trashing of posts, due to lack of time. > > Patrick > > *** *** ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html *** ** > > Thanks for your input Patrick. Yeah, since I'm new to this list, I don't think I realized how many posts are made each day. I have to admit, if the subject ain't what I'm lookin' for, I never open the msg. Cheers, -- Peace ... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ====== = Randy Reichenbach randy@cdac.com = // || \\ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= || || || = Physical Design Engineer (VLSI-CAD) = || //\\ || = Cascade Design Automation = \\//__\\// = 3650 131st Ave SE, Suite 650 = `------' = Bellevue, Washington 98006 = = Tel: 425.643.0200 Fax: 425.649.7600 = ... Get some! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From ???@??? Wed Apr 08 10:04:55 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 8 09:43:55 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMxx2-0001oa-00; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:43:52 -0700 Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 01:38:16 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: X-Mailer: Macintosh Eudora Pro Version 2.1.3-J Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: cave@pop1.osk.3web.ne.jp (Sunao Inami) Subject: KC project in Japan Resent-Message-ID: <"VlSiLB.A.NDB.hg6K1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4925 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:43:52 -0700 X-UIDL: 86be1c00f3096529cb7a82825dc5ad18 Hi Loopers, Great show!! Today I saw King Crimson project live gig in Osaka,Japan! A large audience,the Hall "Heat Beat" was full(I guess it over 800 people). Belew played electronic drums only,he was not played the guitar,Just a Drummer. Mr.Torn used EchoPlex,Vortex,PCM80,GM70(maybe),Ebow(a little play) etc.. Jamman has disappeared in his rack.. Tony and Bruford spoke Japanese on stage. cool :) Reagrds Sunao Inami E-mail cave@osk.3web.ne.jp URL"cave home" http://www.threeweb.ad.jp/~cave/ tel&fax "CAVE Studio" +81 794 89 5025 Hyogo,Japan From ???@??? Wed Apr 08 10:04:57 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 8 10:01:01 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yMyDZ-0004CF-00; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:00:57 -0700 From: KRosser414 Message-ID: <87c3bff5.352bab9c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 12:53:46 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Joni's new stuff Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Resent-Message-ID: <"LpH_nD.A.vMD.xv6K1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4926 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:00:57 -0700 X-UIDL: e9f5bb95f66ec8fe442daadaf4109963 >yes she (Joni Mitchell) sure is.....and i hear the new CD she's about to release is >chock full of roland VG-8, Last I heard the upcoming record (Taming The Tiger) is entirely Joni on electric guitar through VG-8 and Brian Blade on drums (no bass/keys/horns, nada). It'll be interesting to see how much makes the final cut that way. June release? I don't know what the latest ETA is... Ken R From ???@??? Thu Apr 09 00:18:40 1998 >From kflint Wed Apr 8 23:45:20 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yNB5I-0005bY-00; Wed, 8 Apr 1998 23:45:16 -0700 Message-Id: <199804090640.CAA10061@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: No Looping Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 02:40:34 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"a6sPoB.A.g9E.V3GL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4928 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 23:45:16 -0700 X-UIDL: 015496927c25b597fbc1ea69c27505bb hey folks.. warning - self-congratulatory horn-blowing post!!! no looping content here, but thought you'd get a kick outta one of yer own (actually, me) getting some cool international press via UPI and veteran music writer John Swenson (Rolling stone, spin, musician, creem, circus, etc) . this is about a show i recently did with my non-looping band... This article, plus about $400, will get me a Jamman!!! enjoy - link follows>> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/upi/story.html?s=n/upi/98/04/08/enterta inment/usrock_1.html andre' c. From ???@??? Thu Apr 09 00:18:41 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 9 00:07:48 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yNBR2-000746-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:07:44 -0700 Message-Id: <199804090702.DAA13877@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: , Subject: Re: No Looping;Link correction !! Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 03:02:27 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dThrN.A.FSG.yLHL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4929 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:07:44 -0700 X-UIDL: 15c4fec0fac0a52bbc8c6aeaba858932 oops,, if you care - here's the correct link. sorry for wasted bandwidth!! http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/upi/story.html?s=n/upi/98/04/08/enterta inment/usrock_1.html andre' From ???@??? Thu Apr 09 09:43:55 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 9 09:07:39 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNJrU-00057F-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 09:07:36 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 08:52:17 -0700 Message-ID: <000B9580.----@wj.com> From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle) Subject: Re[2]: No Looping;Link correction !! To: , "andre" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"xr9ezC.A.qBE.LCPL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4930 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 09:07:36 -0700 X-UIDL: f610a0637c799645ca8f24c423ea72e8 Great review Andre! When does this become a travelling road show? 8-> -Miko ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: No Looping;Link correction !! Author: "andre" at INTERNET Date: 4/9/98 3:02 AM oops,, if you care - here's the correct link. sorry for wasted bandwidth!! http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/upi/story.html?s=n/upi/98/04/08/enterta inment/usrock_1.html andre' From ???@??? Thu Apr 09 11:02:05 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 9 10:41:51 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNLKU-0007Ah-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:41:38 -0700 Message-ID: <03ac01bd63db$e4fe4a60$29f0ffd0@default> From: "future perfect" To: Subject: B.L.U.E. live internet broadcast Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:21:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"kpn73.A.9rE.LPQL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4931 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:41:38 -0700 X-UIDL: f7289f2d9678571fcf28ec4f095d79da I came across this: A live Bruford Levin Upper Extremeties internet broadcast from the House of blues at Harvard Square. Sunday April 19 6:30 pm PT (1:30 GMT) http://www.liveconcerts.com/event/preevent.html I have seen concerts from this site before, you can use Real Audio or Real Player, but Real Player has the advantage of having video along with it. Granted, its not like a movie, but this is the closest I'll get to see Mr. Torn play (there not coming to Florida :(...) Dave Eichenberger ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - art music - visit our website at: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 From ???@??? Thu Apr 09 11:02:06 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 9 10:56:50 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNLZ4-0001MM-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:56:42 -0700 Message-ID: <008301bd63dd$cc8f2f60$c2b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata) To: "Loopers Delight" Subject: Looper Wishlist Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:34:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"4kd2OB.A.cBH.fjQL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4932 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:56:42 -0700 X-UIDL: 09e7a19a56748bcbce2585109f0a1754 I bet everyone on this list has wished that some piece of equipment could do more that it was designed to do. Since looping devices are so rare, perhaps the next manufacturer to develop one could incorporate the suggestions that we come up with. Here's my suggestion: In addition to wanting more delay time, I'd like to see a "mutate" knob on future looping devices. This knob would control the randomness of a loop. For example, it could cause the loop to randomly expand and contract it length, change its tone color or even cut and paste various portions of the loop into a random order. Of course, there would be a "reset" button that allows you to eliminate all mutations made and return to your original loop. Lex, Obie and B'rang, can this be done? Thanks, Mark Kata Mark@asisoftware.com From ???@??? Thu Apr 09 11:26:08 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 9 11:25:34 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNM0v-000517-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 11:25:29 -0700 Message-ID: <03e401bd63e3$5168f180$29f0ffd0@default> From: "future perfect" To: Subject: Re: Looper Wishlist Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 14:14:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"SDgP1.A._PD.x-QL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4933 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 11:25:29 -0700 X-UIDL: 292f97fdf45ca1fecb1cd04d68962fd6 Heres my idea...say you loop a small rhythm groove, like drums and bass...now, it would be neat to set the feedback so that only everything after the initial groove is affected, so the rhythm keeps going on endlessly while melodies fade in and out. Just a thought, Dave Eichenberger ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - art music - visit our website at: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 "Establish the possible, and move gradually towards the impossible" -Robert Fripp >I bet everyone on this list has wished that some piece of equipment could do >more that it was designed to do. From ???@??? Fri Apr 10 01:21:22 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 9 11:42:04 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net ([207.171.193.21] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yNMGk-00071S-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 11:41:50 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yNMGE-0001KR-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 11:41:18 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNMFp-0006u0-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 11:40:53 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <008301bd63dd$cc8f2f60$c2b854ce@mark.asisoftware.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 11:25:47 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Looper Wishlist Resent-Message-ID: <"NJasd.A.53E.nLRL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4934 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 11:40:53 -0700 X-UIDL: f9718614a18dc51a2894c6d0843ebf88 At 1:34 PM -0400 4/9/98, Mark Kata wrote: >I bet everyone on this list has wished that some piece of equipment could do >more that it was designed to do. Since looping devices are so rare, perhaps >the next manufacturer to develop one could incorporate the suggestions that >we come up with. ya never know who's listening.... >Here's my suggestion: > >In addition to wanting more delay time, I'd like to see a "mutate" knob on >future looping devices. > >This knob would control the randomness of a loop. For example, it could >cause the loop to randomly expand and contract it length, change its tone >color or even cut and paste various portions of the loop into a random >order. Of course, there would be a "reset" button that allows you to >eliminate all mutations made and return to your original loop. > >Lex, Obie and B'rang, can this be done? Well, probably, but would you really want a machine (or really, the machine's designer) to control all these things for you? It couldn't be truly random, only random within some predefined boundaries, which might not be what you want in a given situation. You might not like it at all, since it would be to the designer's taste, and you would be stuck with that for this "randomness knob". So you would likely want some way to set all the different parameters making up those boundaries. That might be a little more interesting, but more complicated, and maybe not very useful most of the time. You could probably do this now with Max. Apply random number generators to various controller objects, and send it out to whatever loopers and effects you have. You could make it as complicated or as simple as you like, and it would be customized for your needs. I've done that for debugging echoplex/Loop software, and occasionally something interesting happened. Usually those were bugs, of course.... and if you're thinking about stuff like this and you don't have Max, well, for shame.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Apr 10 01:21:27 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 9 13:31:58 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNNzD-00022b-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:31:51 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980409143359.00746324@dharma.mitre.org> X-Sender: seligman@dharma.mitre.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 14:33:59 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Len Seligman Subject: Re: Looper Wishlist In-Reply-To: <03e401bd63e3$5168f180$29f0ffd0@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"6XpkSB.A._x.G4SL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4935 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:31:51 -0700 X-UIDL: 165d84e3d743cba943c421913080d335 At 02:14 PM 4/9/98 -0400, you wrote: > > Heres my idea...say you loop a small rhythm groove, like drums and >bass...now, it would be neat to set the feedback so that only everything >after the initial groove is affected, so the rhythm keeps going on endlessly >while melodies fade in and out. Yes, that would be great! I guess you could do this with 2 sync'd loopers now, eh? -Len From ???@??? Fri Apr 10 01:21:31 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 9 13:54:02 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNOKe-0004gB-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:54:00 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980409204835.00d7aa94@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 13:48:35 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Looper Wishlist Resent-Message-ID: <"RvfgHC.A.J0D.0QTL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4936 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:54:00 -0700 X-UIDL: 0189a779103c10f67c374133509fffc2 At 02:33 PM 4/9/98 -0400, you wrote: >At 02:14 PM 4/9/98 -0400, you wrote: >> >> Heres my idea...say you loop a small rhythm groove, like drums and >>bass...now, it would be neat to set the feedback so that only everything >>after the initial groove is affected, so the rhythm keeps going on endlessly >>while melodies fade in and out. > >Yes, that would be great! I guess you could do this with 2 sync'd loopers >now, eh? yeah, that works fine. Even more convenient since it allows for multiple people to be creating the parts on their own loopers. Or you could even use one looper sync'd to a sequencer/drum machine. kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Fri Apr 10 09:52:09 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 03:29:29 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNb3n-0005OL-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:29:27 -0700 Sender: mpeters@csi.com Message-ID: <01BD6467.91B99670.mpeters@csi.com> From: Michael Peters To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: AW: Looper Wishlist Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:01:05 +0200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-Mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"riMVDD.A.s1E.4PfL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4944 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:29:27 -0700 X-UIDL: 20a9c9a99a12535f52de42d0ba074a27 > and if you're thinking about stuff like this and you don't have Max, well, > for shame.... I've asked Opcode and they don't have plans to make a Windows version. Arrgh! michael peters mpeters@csi.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters/ From ???@??? Fri Apr 10 01:21:58 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 9 17:57:35 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net ([207.171.193.21] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yNS8L-0002sc-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:57:33 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yNQzA-0006jh-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:44:00 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNQz0-0001fh-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:43:50 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 15:10:36 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Looper Wishlist Resent-Message-ID: <"uuA6q.A.Ic.BoVL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4938 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:43:50 -0700 X-UIDL: 0616362be3f32035239377beeb12661a I had a nutty idea for a looper a while ago. I was playing around with the vortex, which has some patches that use dynamics as a control parameter, mostly for things like echo level and feedback, and was thinking about other ways dynamics could be used to control a looper. What if you could replace elements in a loop based on dynamics? If you're silent, the loop remains the same, if you play softly, the new material is mixed into the background of the old, and if you play at full volume, the old material is completely replaced by the new. I can't imagine if playing a device like this would actually produce anything musical, but it'd be cool to try. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Apr 10 01:21:49 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 9 16:09:53 1998 Received: from falcon ([207.171.193.27] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yNQS3-0005p1-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:09:47 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yNQRx-0005GK-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:09:42 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNQRs-0005nu-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:09:36 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980409222355.00e292c8@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 15:23:55 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: It's ALIVE! Resent-Message-ID: <"HbT10B.A.2YE.FMVL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4937 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:09:36 -0700 X-UIDL: b9931864faa648c08f15dc194013c3f3 The website is fully functional again, after increasingly agitated calls to my ISP finally got somewhere. It's possibly even more functional, since it has been switched to an Apache server instead of the Netscape server it used to live on. Browse freely: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Fri Apr 10 01:21:57 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 9 17:18:49 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNRWj-0005zJ-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:18:41 -0700 Message-Id: <199804100003.RAA23502@sonic.sonic.com> Subject: Re: Looper Wishlist Date: Thu, 9 Apr 98 17:11:39 -0700 x-sender: andy_wolpert@pop.sonic.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Andy Wolpert To: "Loopers Delight" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"bIk2AD.A.YcE.UMWL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4939 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:18:41 -0700 X-UIDL: 9a5e52fa17c019cc37fe3bd08eccf01c >What if you could >replace elements in a loop based on dynamics? If you're silent, the loop >remains the same, if you play softly, the new material is mixed into the >background of the old, and if you play at full volume, the old material is >completely replaced by the new. I Working with a compressor on the sum of live and looped sound has a similar effect in that the live sound pushes the loop out of the way (no completely), put when you stop playing the loop comes back. __ _/\_ / \___/ \______ \ Andy Wolpert \__ | Sonic Solutions \ / awolpert@sonic.com / | (415) 893-8043 / \___ __ ___/ \__/ \_____/ From ???@??? Fri Apr 10 01:22:01 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 9 19:00:08 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNT6o-0002el-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:00:02 -0700 From: Marzzz Message-ID: <19474b8a.352d7ae8@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:50:30 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Looper Wishlist Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"zCDAXD.A.9fB.tsXL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4940 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:00:02 -0700 X-UIDL: b3626b08acc4e5ed1f70c04ce9ec0a6f Very simple- Allocation of memory in such way that you can play multiple, simultaneous, sync-able (or totally unrelated) loops. Marshall From ???@??? Fri Apr 10 01:22:14 1998 >From kflint Thu Apr 9 21:12:38 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNVB5-0005VZ-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:12:35 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:10:14 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Looper Wishlist Resent-Message-ID: <"fhD1AD.A.d_E.7uZL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4941 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 21:12:35 -0700 X-UIDL: 797cc709fd12be8efa09959823c803fe >>What if you could >>replace elements in a loop based on dynamics? If you're silent, the loop >>remains the same, if you play softly, the new material is mixed into the >>background of the old, and if you play at full volume, the old material is >>completely replaced by the new. I > > Working with a compressor on the sum of live and looped sound has a >similar effect in that the live sound pushes the loop out of the way (no >completely), put when you stop playing the loop comes back. > The Vortex does this, very nice for having loops fill the space between phrases, but not crowd out the live sound, But what I'm talking about is having the live playing overdubbed into the loop, recording over/mixing with the looped material at a volume determined by the dynamics. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Fri Apr 10 09:52:06 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 01:59:36 1998 Received: from falcon ([207.171.193.27] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yNZep-0000M0-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:59:35 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net [207.171.193.6] (mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0yNXNv-0006Pl-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:33:59 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNXNg-00061d-00; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:33:44 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:20:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Todd Pafford Reply-To: Todd Pafford To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Looper Wishlist In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"_f2SoD.A.u_D.3obL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4942 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 23:33:44 -0700 X-UIDL: 6119335070a88e5351c5250698e776e5 On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Dave Trenkel wrote: > I had a nutty idea for a looper a while ago. I was playing around with the > vortex, which has some patches that use dynamics as a control parameter, > mostly for things like echo level and feedback, and was thinking about > other ways dynamics could be used to control a looper. What if you could > replace elements in a loop based on dynamics? If you're silent, the loop > remains the same, if you play softly, the new material is mixed into the > background of the old, and if you play at full volume, the old material is > completely replaced by the new. I can't imagine if playing a device like > this would actually produce anything musical, but it'd be cool to try. > > ________________________________________________________ > Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ The Vortex already does this (dynamic loop replacement)...check out setting 9b. Granted, it's not a looper per se but it's the loopiest delay I've ever seen. :) --- "If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite." -- William Blake Todd "Uses setting 9b too too much" Pafford galen@erols.com From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:40:56 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 11:00:48 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNi6R-00065o-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:00:39 -0700 Sender: r_t_cummings@csi.com Message-ID: <352E0F17.53359B2F@csi.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:22:49 +0200 From: Cummings X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Looper Wishlist References: <199804092014_MC2-3962-5A75@compuserve.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------8CD3EB8473D5B9039B449CF0" Resent-Message-ID: <"O1SYb.A.BuE.LxlL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4949 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:00:39 -0700 X-UIDL: 49bf8e53050224f24f5e376e9132f085 Andy wrote: > >What if you could > >replace elements in a loop based on dynamics? If you're silent, the loop > >remains the same, if you play softly, the new material is mixed into the > >background of the old, and if you play at full volume, the old material is > >completely replaced by the new. I > > Working with a compressor on the sum of live and looped sound has a > similar effect in that the live sound pushes the loop out of the way (no > completely), put when you stop playing the loop comes back. > > __ _/\_ > / \___/ \______ > \ Andy Wolpert \__ > | Sonic Solutions \ > / awolpert@sonic.com / > | (415) 893-8043 / > \___ __ ___/ > \__/ \_____/ I've tried using this "ducking" effect on my Composer with the sidechain. It's a strange effect, but not one that really blew me away. Maybe I just didn't find the killer app. A little more interesting was to use a delayed signal on the sidechain. By playing at the delay tempo you could use the gate to "bite" off parts of the dry (without delay) signal. Another effect I tried was to use a simple rhythm trigger (e.g.BD from drum machine) on the side chain. If you put a fairly droney texture loop through the main section, the rhythm pulses could be used to add gated swells to the drone. I suppose these are all old tricks (they're described somewhat in the Behringer manual). Anyone else know some wild tricks with dynamic processors? Rob Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Visitenkarte für R & T Cummings Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" Attachment converted: shards o' data:vcard.vcf (TEXT/R*ch) (0000107F) From ???@??? Fri Apr 10 09:52:17 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 07:25:32 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNekF-0007aB-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:25:31 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980410073729.00805ce0@wavefront.com> X-Sender: chuck.zwicky@wavefront.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:37:29 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chuck Zwicky Subject: Dynamic Looping (WAS: Re: Looper Wishlist) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"0S-FiC.A.5yG.tsiL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4945 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:25:31 -0700 X-UIDL: bba50927770e4d67ee30b02611d390ee A month ago I asked the question "Is the feedback pedal input on the Echoplex Digital Pro audio or CV?", to which I received no reply. Here is the reason for the question: >>>What if you could >>>replace elements in a loop based on dynamics? I have set up delay based loops using the Ensoniq DP/4+ in a feedback configuration, where one processor is used in a feedback loop around another. By using a compressor in the feedback loop around a delay, things get pushed around dynamically in the loop quite nicely. The loops take on a life of their own and evolve in very subtle or bizzarrely extreme ways. The same effect is possible using a Jamman or EDP with a mixer. Set the looper's mix to full wet, connect it's output to a channel, and it's input from an aux send. Insert a compressor either before or after the looper. Use the aux send on the mixer channel which the looper is in to control repeats. If the EDP feedback jack uses an audio signal, the same results could be acheived by inserting a compressor there. The time constants of the compressor play a major role in shaping the result, so use one which has wide ranging attack and release adjustments. Variable ratio and knee are also good to have available. I'd love to hear what you think of the results..... -Chuck Zwicky From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:41:04 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 12:54:25 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNjsV-0002O3-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:54:23 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:51:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199804101551.LAA01709@mcfeely.concentric.net> X-Sender: hideo@pop3.concentric.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Tom Lambrecht Subject: Re: Dynamic Looping (WAS: Re: Looper Wishlist) Resent-Message-ID: <"86bR-C.A.5oB.uenL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4951 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:54:23 -0700 X-UIDL: b75270a214f639414f76122c4d54ed2d At 07:37 AM 4/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >A month ago I asked the question "Is the feedback pedal input on the >Echoplex Digital Pro audio or CV?", to which I received no reply. > >Here is the reason for the question: > >>>>What if you could >>>>replace elements in a loop based on dynamics? > >I have set up delay based loops using the Ensoniq DP/4+ in a feedback >configuration, where one processor is used in a feedback loop around another. >By using a compressor in the feedback loop around a delay, things get >pushed around dynamically in the loop quite nicely. The loops take on a >life of their own and evolve in very subtle or bizzarrely extreme ways. > >The same effect is possible using a Jamman or EDP with a mixer. Set the >looper's mix to full wet, connect it's output to a channel, and it's input >from an aux send. >Insert a compressor either before or after the looper. Use the aux send on >the mixer channel which the looper is in to control repeats. > If the EDP feedback jack uses an audio signal, the same results could be >acheived by inserting a compressor there. > >The time constants of the compressor play a major role in shaping the >result, so use one which has wide ranging attack and release adjustments. >Variable ratio and knee are also good to have available. > >I'd love to hear what you think of the results..... > >-Chuck Zwicky > > > > > Chuck: canna' help you with the Eplex ?, but this weekend I'm definitely going to try this with my Jammie :) AFTER I mow the lawn this fine day (a loop in itself) I've done a similar things running loops thru a flanger, but then you get that flange-colored tone . . . loops that flux by themselves are my favorite cuz' they are an artificial form of life--a nice, spiralling soundtrack to perform your higher functions to . . . get looped :()()())))))()())()()()()()))()))())()())))())))()() Tom Tom Lambrecht hideo@concentric.net From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:41:00 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 11:15:28 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNiKf-00005F-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:15:21 -0700 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199804101653.JAA02215@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: AW: Looper Wishlist To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:53:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <01BD6467.91B99670.mpeters@csi.com> from "Michael Peters" at Apr 9, 98 11:01:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5yZo5C.A.0lG.bAmL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4950 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:15:21 -0700 X-UIDL: f486d4e4e9d35bfd18b1cabf7c976f41 > > and if you're thinking about stuff like this and you don't have Max, well, > > for shame.... > > I've asked Opcode and they don't have plans to make a Windows version. Arrgh! > > michael peters mpeters@csi.com > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters/ I've been meaning to ask this for a while, but.... How do the MIDI functions of Symbolic Sound's Kyma compare to Max? Especially for looping? Thanks, Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Fri Apr 10 10:13:37 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 10:07:19 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNhGj-0007Oz-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:07:13 -0700 From: NEMOGUIT Message-ID: <99324c8f.352e5076@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:01:40 EDT To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: loopers wishlist Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 81 Resent-Message-ID: <"my8MfC.A.fYG.cClL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4946 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:07:13 -0700 X-UIDL: 1b00e590d5a80fbbd69a37bba028a7ce not being a big techie i would like to see: audio cassettes come with new equipment that start "turn on your xyz796 and when your push these buttons it will sound like this...........now if you turn this knob it will sound like this........" ect. i know we all love reading our manuels, i know i drag mine out when i cant sleep, but to HEAR the the creators of these wonderous boxes teach how to use them and the many and varied sounds which can be produced. i feel this would help me more quickly delve the mighty depths and not feel that my little boxes are sitting there laughing at me saying "he will never fully understand us"!! ..............................................jsut sitting in my lo-tech cave...................michael p.s. happy easter one and all From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:40:52 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 10:20:00 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNhT2-00018T-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:19:56 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980410073729.00805ce0@wavefront.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:12:59 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Dynamic Looping (WAS: Re: Looper Wishlist) Resent-Message-ID: <"s6T6Z.A.IU.ANlL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4947 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:19:56 -0700 X-UIDL: 3cb2fb1477a3af2cd96b3607294a3e31 At 7:37 AM -0500 4/10/98, Chuck Zwicky wrote: >A month ago I asked the question "Is the feedback pedal input on the >Echoplex Digital Pro audio or CV?", to which I received no reply. it's a control voltage, set with a potentiometer in the feedback jack. There's no audio there. The audio remains digital for the the feedback path, and the feedback is done by a calculation in the processor. If the audio were being converted to analog for the feedback and back to digital each time through the loop, your loops would start to sound pretty bad after a while. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:40:53 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 10:28:13 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNhax-0002AO-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:28:07 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <99324c8f.352e5076@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:20:41 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: loopers wishlist Resent-Message-ID: <"-Hk1xD.A.MQB.bUlL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4948 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:28:07 -0700 X-UIDL: 7b17d01796b70434dd1f12558b366f1f At 1:01 PM -0400 4/10/98, NEMOGUIT wrote: >i know we all love reading our manuels, i know i drag mine out when i cant >sleep, but to HEAR the the creators of these wonderous boxes teach how to use >them and the many and varied sounds which can be produced. i feel this would >help me more quickly delve the mighty depths and not feel that my little boxes >are sitting there laughing at me saying "he will never fully understand us"!! A good idea, certainly. But don't you get that by being on this list? The creators of most the devices we talk about are here! Oberheim has talked about making a video, I think that would be a helpful thing. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Apr 10 09:52:08 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 03:25:40 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net ([207.171.193.21] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@slip.net id 0yNb06-00050m-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:25:38 -0700 Received: from ferret.slip.net ([207.171.193.6] ident=mail) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNb03-0005DA-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:25:35 -0700 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNb02-00050K-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:25:34 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19980410110114.25e733b0@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> X-Sender: pycraft@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:01:14 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." Subject: Re: Looper Wishlist In-Reply-To: <19474b8a.352d7ae8@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"ct-ryC.A.kdE.MMfL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4943 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:25:34 -0700 X-UIDL: 2da2c3591fe7e5156c684b9e2c2cf3ea Marshal from Marz said: >Allocation of memory in such way that you can play multiple, simultaneous, >sync-able (or totally unrelated) loops. ^^^^^^^^^ Howzabout this one guys - why is the JamMan like the Titanic? Both were officially un-sync-able! (though of course, methods were later found to sync both...) baBOOM! Michael #347 From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:41:06 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 13:16:15 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNkDY-0004Xw-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:16:08 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980410134713.007b8460@wavefront.com> X-Sender: chuck.zwicky@wavefront.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:47:13 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chuck Zwicky Subject: Re: Dynamic Looping (WAS: Re: Looper Wishlist) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19980410073729.00805ce0@wavefront.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"qXHYC.A.xtD.aznL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4952 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:16:08 -0700 X-UIDL: e37c9af56282928b7e0d43f97e94c3b9 Kim, I've heard from Jamman users who later bought EDPs that the loops tend to degrade more over time in the EDP...... -Chuck At 10:12 AM 4/10/98 -0700, you wrote: >At 7:37 AM -0500 4/10/98, Chuck Zwicky wrote: >>A month ago I asked the question "Is the feedback pedal input on the >>Echoplex Digital Pro audio or CV?", to which I received no reply. > >it's a control voltage, set with a potentiometer in the feedback jack. >There's no audio there. The audio remains digital for the the feedback >path, and the feedback is done by a calculation in the processor. If the >audio were being converted to analog for the feedback and back to digital >each time through the loop, your loops would start to sound pretty bad >after a while. > >kim > > >______________________________________________________________________ >Kim Flint | Looper's Delight >kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html >http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com > > > > > From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:41:10 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 13:45:01 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNkfR-0000L7-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:44:57 -0700 From: Fmplautus Message-ID: <809094ef.352e707b@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:18:17 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: loopers wishlist and basic training tapes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"QVV_s.A.RAH.MOoL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4955 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:44:57 -0700 X-UIDL: 30ecf2b2bb321a1c399ff435dcc11089 The audio cassette that comes with the EBOW is a great instructional tape, and yes, a model of intelligence, clarity, and human empathy. Would that other manufacturers would follow. Best, the LoOpdOctOrs From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:41:08 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 13:32:14 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNkSo-0006Tz-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:31:54 -0700 Message-ID: <19980410192006.1924.rocketmail@web2.rocketmail.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:20:06 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rev. Doubt-Goat" Subject: Looping show tonight, Friday in Portland, OR To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"kX7KFD.A.pzE.28nL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4953 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:31:54 -0700 X-UIDL: ec51933a5c487208c87a855fe693b7ab 93 The Ascension Conspiracy will be playing a 2 hour show at the Starbucks at NW23rd and NW Hoyt in Portland Oregon tonight, Friday April 23rd from 8pm to 10pm. Sorry for the late notice. Dammit Jim, I'm a musician, not a publicist! The Ascension Conspiracy consists of: 1. The Grand Conspirator Orpheus on Stick, bass, vocals and loops, and 2. The Rev. Doubt-Goat on electric guitar, lap steel and loops, and 3. The Right Honourable Alesis SR-16 on electronic drums and drum loops. Loops provided by JamMan. 93 Rev. Doubt-Goat (Loops for all! A loop in every pot!) _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:41:09 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 13:35:24 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNkW2-0006u0-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:35:14 -0700 From: Trinitymid Message-ID: <900c5fec.352e7fc0@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:23:27 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Esi-4000 sample program Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 62 Resent-Message-ID: <"MKEO5.A.LLF.t_nL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4954 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:35:14 -0700 X-UIDL: 6fa0d11e3213c181258d89edc798ee68 Is there any program (for windows) that you can save and edit esi format samples. If so please tell me. i know sound forge does, but I'm short on cash right now. i'm hoping to fine something freeware. thanks, chris From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:41:12 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 13:51:41 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNklt-0001BT-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:51:37 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980410204537.008f8320@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:45:37 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Dynamic Looping (WAS: Re: Looper Wishlist) Resent-Message-ID: <"O7Z4e.A.rZ.xToL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4956 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 13:51:37 -0700 X-UIDL: 9bda3d1acb021b4dab999dab2bf8bc6d At 01:47 PM 4/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >Kim, > I've heard from Jamman users who later bought EDPs that the loops tend to >degrade more over time in the EDP...... > >-Chuck > good to see the internet rumor mill continues to churn away.... In the old echoplex software there were some software bugs that caused unwanted feedback reductions in some rare circumstances, typically in stereo setups. The feedback on the slave unit would get stuck slightly below maximum, resulting loop volume dropping slowly over long periods of time. Not very many people experienced that, but it was irritating for those who did. Those problems were fixed last year with the LoopIII v5.0 upgrade. I wouldn't describe feedback volume reductions as "degrade" though. I never heard of anybody having a problem with the loop audio degrading over time. It's difficult to imagine how that could happen, since the basic looping situation is handled by just moving an address pointer back to the loop's startpoint in memory. The data doesn't change... I never heard of loop audio degrading in the jamman either, so I'm curious why someone would think one was degrading "more" than another? Could they be leaving overdub functions turned on, or something like that? kim ________________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact System Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:41:15 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 14:48:43 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNlf2-0006pz-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:48:37 -0700 From: PMimlitsch Message-ID: <5661f45a.352e9246@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:42:28 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, stickwire-l@netcom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Sat NJ Shore Content-type: text/plain X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"0f0VE.A.ryF.uJpL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4957 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:48:37 -0700 X-UIDL: 9ef013989841a788bf23a8165be3454d "Adelante" will be performing at CoffeeTalk (609-368-5282) in the beautiful South Jersey Shore town of Stone Harbour Sat. April 11th. from 8pm to closing. "Adelante" is Paul Mimlitsch (Stick¨/Loops), J. Janetta (Percussion), and M. Robbins (Violin/Viola/Loops). From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:41:16 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 15:21:38 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNmAv-0002Ns-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:21:33 -0700 Message-ID: <352E9959.1C29036@vtx.ch> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:12:41 +0200 From: Claude Voit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight Subject: 1 plex function question Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uuZPLD.A.4lB.VopL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4958 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 15:21:33 -0700 X-UIDL: b1fb635c359b381463b784645c1e0c9a Hello everybody One questions to the Echoplex users out there For the switch quantize parameters the manual doesnt seem to be updated for the latest version of the software (are there other areas where this happens ?) What are Cyc (cycle?) and Cnf?? and what are they doing? One other to Kim concerning the I/O Gain modification Is an 22.0 K resistor OK as I dont find 22.1 k here ? What is the recommended Wattage ? A+ Claude -- Please correct the reply address by deleting this "----" Veuillez corriger mon adresse pour me rŽpondre en effaŤant Ťa "----" From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:41:31 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 20:00:43 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNqX0-0007kC-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:00:38 -0700 Message-ID: <001201bd64f5$83ec2ba0$4e23dacf@earthlight> Reply-To: "Stephen P. Goodman" From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Re: loopers wishlist and basic training tapes Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 19:57:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"QTzW5B.A.y6G.YwtL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4959 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 20:00:38 -0700 X-UIDL: 33fd84e176af3923eae62c5126d5d9f2 Fmplautus intoned: >The audio cassette that comes with the EBOW is a great instructional tape, and >yes, a model of intelligence, clarity, and human empathy. Would that other >manufacturers would follow. ...Audio cassette? I was given mine back in early '91, and it came with the box and a small pamphlet of instructions. Frankly I find the e-Bow itself an excellent tool, and transparent to whatever purpose I put it to. I play it with both electric and acoustic guitar. ONLY ONE THING I'd change about it in its present one-string form, though. And that's the inexpensive shell for the battery attach, which I ended up replacing myself with a little solder. Which (since I don't have a second one) is as far as I'm going to go in dissecting my little gem. Early on I inquired to its maker as to whether plans were in the works for a multiple string revision of this mighty little fellow. I was informed politely that this is second place to the most-requested e-Bow, that for the bass, but that neither were at that time ('92) in the works. Anything beyond that he was pretty silent about, despite my offering to send my design for their use. If I had the money, I'd buy 5 of them and mount 'em together myself, but hey! Stephen Goodman * It's... The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 00:41:35 1998 >From kflint Fri Apr 10 21:01:59 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNrUL-0003Ut-00; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:01:57 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980410225403.0068761c@mail.utexas.edu> X-Sender: esker@mail.utexas.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:54:03 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthew hahn Subject: Sampling & synthesizing, a comprehensive link Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"-qOtqB.A.r9C.EquL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4960 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:01:57 -0700 X-UIDL: 8ea20fd9c99bcf8bb1f9f85615198efb http://www.synthzone.com/msg/szboard.html just scroll down, discussions also on MIDI, DAW, etc. Researching, me at 11 PM Friday. A lovely college life. Mjh From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 11:21:33 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 01:44:21 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yNvtc-0007V8-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 01:44:20 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <352E9959.1C29036@vtx.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 01:41:25 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: 1 plex function question Resent-Message-ID: <"uM__xB.A.A1G.fzyL1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4961 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 01:44:20 -0700 X-UIDL: e63c3a463d67c648516f6027d11f52a7 At 12:12 AM +0200 4/11/98, Claude Voit wrote: >Hello everybody > >One questions to the Echoplex users out there > >For the switch quantize parameters the manual doesnt seem to be updated >for the latest version of the software (are there other areas where this >happens ?) >What are Cyc (cycle?) and Cnf?? and what are they doing? CYC = loop switch occurs at end of current cycle. nice for keeping things sync'd and rhythmic. CnF = confirm. loop switch occurs when you confirm it. Pressing NextLoop puts you in the "ooo" wait period until you do something to send it to the next loop. The basic "confirm" action is to press the Undo button, which sends you immediately to the next loop. The point of it is that you can more easily decide which loop you are switching to with confirm mode. You can continue to press NextLoop until the display shows the one you want, and then press Undo and go there. If you want to be executing a particular function when you go to the next loop (recording, overdubbing, copying, etc.) you can press those from the "ooo" waiting period. example: you are in loop 1, and want to switch to loop 7 you press Next, the display shows "ooo". Loop 1 continues to play. you keep pressing Next until the display shows "L 7" then you press Undo when want to switch, and you immediately go to loop 7. If you want to have have a function like Record immediately start when you go to Loop 7, press that button instead of Undo. (so when it says "L 7" press Record, and you will immediately be recording in Loop 7. With short loops this mode is helpful, because it gives you more time to set things up before the loop switch. >One other to Kim concerning the I/O Gain modification > >Is an 22.0 K resistor OK as I dont find 22.1 k here ? >What is the recommended Wattage ? > 22k, 1/4 watt, although you could use lower or higher wattage. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 23:51:17 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 12 17:34:51 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOXD1-0005Rz-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 17:34:51 -0700 Message-ID: <352F336E.40AD@pop.interport.net> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:10:10 +0000 From: John + Diane Parada Reply-To: jparada@changenow.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: It's ALIVE! References: <2.2.32.19980409222355.00e292c8@pop.chromatic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FWn8IB.A.r0E.C0VM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4988 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 17:34:51 -0700 X-UIDL: ca36e7281e61211678ef18ff10f70ffb UNSUSCRIBE Thanks for the info now i must go play UNSUSCRIBE From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 11:22:03 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 11:14:12 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yO4n4-00037J-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 11:14:10 -0700 Posted-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:00:48 +0200 (MET DST) Sender: rob@pi.net Message-ID: <352FA1C2.7DC0DEC2@pi.net> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:00:50 +0000 From: Robert van der Kamp X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.31 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Plex, Europ and CE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IA40pB.A.mpC.RJ7L1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4964 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 11:14:10 -0700 X-UIDL: b0959f83f9707b50280b3b8eea103dac Hi, This is probably an oldie, but anyway... I live in the Netherlands and wanny buy a Plex. But these are not available in Europe. My questions are simple: - Can I order one from the States, and where? - Will a US plex work with 220-230V, 50Hz? Thanks for any info, Robert From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 11:21:58 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 10:40:49 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yO4Gl-00011C-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:40:47 -0700 From: Marzzz Message-ID: <2be37ec1.352faa2f@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:36:45 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: AW: Looper Wishlist Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Resent-Message-ID: <"crDJvB.A.4l.dp6L1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4962 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:40:47 -0700 X-UIDL: 39302eec7e97c9f6c690dd640aebd696 In a message dated 4/10/98 1:14:41 PM, Paolo wrote: >How do the MIDI functions of Symbolic Sound's Kyma compare to Max? >Especially for looping? Considering the Kyma is an entirely open-ended system, I think they would be QUITE comparable. I even venture a guess that with enough hardware horesepower the capability of custom designing your own looper in software is significant. A base system is about $4400, I have a strong feeling that when they come out with the next generation Capybara (the hardware component) it will be a must- have. I have been interested in KYMA for a long time.... Marshall From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 11:21:59 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 10:43:37 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yO4JS-0001Lm-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:43:34 -0700 From: Marzzz Message-ID: <27bc8911.352faaa6@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:38:44 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: loopers wishlist and basic training tapes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Resent-Message-ID: <"0XgojB.A.qy.Mr6L1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4963 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:43:34 -0700 X-UIDL: c2704b06830a04e975b911f116e0ac0f In a message dated 4/10/98 3:43:39 PM, LoopDoctors wrote: >The audio cassette that comes with the EBOW is a great instructional tape, and >yes, a model of intelligence, clarity, and human empathy. Would that other >manufacturers would follow. I understand that the EBow people are about to release a new version, I believe it is the EBow Plus (?). Anyone know/seen anything about it? Marshall From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 11:21:59 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 10:45:34 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yO4LO-0001Y6-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:45:34 -0700 X-From_:mmason@faulkcomp.com Sat Apr 11 10:45:31 1998 Received: from weasel.slip.net ([207.171.193.21] helo=falcon.slip.net) by ferret.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for loopers-delight@slip.net id 0yO4LL-0001Xd-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:45:31 -0700 Received: from [192.239.16.198] (helo=vienna1-mail-relay1.bbnplanet.com) by falcon.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com id 0yO20v-0004wg-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:16:17 -0700 Received: from fsmtp.faulkcomp.com (fsmtp.faulkcomp.com [209.36.226.13]) by vienna1-mail-relay1.bbnplanet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA00089 for ; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 11:15:42 -0400 (EDT) From: mmason@faulkcomp.com Received: from ccMail by fsmtp.faulkcomp.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.11.00.3) id AA892308079; Sat, 11 Apr 98 10:21:21 -0600 Message-Id: <9804118923.AA892308079@fsmtp.faulkcomp.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.11.00.3 Old-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 98 10:19:33 -0600 To: Subject: I need unsubscribe info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: "cc:Mail Note Part" X-Diagnostic: help sent X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight Sender: SmartList Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:45:34 -0700 X-UIDL: 00096744ce76de8f3dbe38ccfaefebf1 Could someone please post unsubscribe information. I don't have time to keep up with my reading all the postings. From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 15:38:59 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 11:31:27 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yO53m-0004Kv-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 11:31:26 -0700 Message-ID: <352FB680.24FC@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 13:29:20 -0500 From: Mike Artemenko X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Looper Wishlist References: <199804092014_MC2-3962-5A75@compuserve.com> <352E0F17.53359B2F@csi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"gl4yNB.A.7zD.lZ7L1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4965 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 11:31:26 -0700 X-UIDL: c0d847288a77296847f6d97632653e1a A while back there was mention of a compilation of user contributions to an applications manual for the Echoplex DP. I would find this to be a great help in tying up or twisting all that parameter info in the user manual. I wouldn't really do that to my EDP would I? I hope something like this comes about. Any info is appreciated. Mike From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 15:39:03 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 12:00:51 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yO5WD-00065i-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:00:49 -0700 Message-Id: <199804111855.OAA29914@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Soundcards info Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:56:22 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"09BvI.A.UdF.I17L1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4966 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:00:49 -0700 X-UIDL: d31aa39a4c86dbc9ad4f062e03477349 hello. i forget who, but someone recently was querying on SOUNDCARDS... the Jan 1998 electronic musician mag did a story reviewing a few, also the *new* april?may? keyboard or EM has a story on new soundcards peace. From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 15:39:03 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 12:26:03 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yO5uc-0007O9-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:26:02 -0700 From: Fmplautus Message-ID: <113fcf24.352fc30e@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:22:52 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: loopers wishlist and basic training tapes Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Resent-Message-ID: <"u6bs1D.A.BtG.AN8L1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4967 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:26:02 -0700 X-UIDL: 85d5252a543f79dc6d07f3e306aade27 We've heard that the EBOW PLUS tracks two strings. Best, the LoOpdOctOrs From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 00:04:23 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 17:00:45 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOACR-0005H8-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:00:43 -0700 Message-ID: <352FC483.3BA7@netvigator.com> Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 03:29:07 +0800 From: Alan Reply-To: alanip@netvigator.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: loopers wishlist and basic training tapes References: <27bc8911.352faaa6@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lm3w5D.A.WtE.aOAM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4973 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:00:43 -0700 X-UIDL: 621c473a982bfe3240d7f597d219c5a4 Marzzz wrote: > > I understand that the EBow people are about to release a new version, I > believe it is the EBow Plus (?). Anyone know/seen anything about it? > I've heard that Ebow was showing their new model with an octave switch at latest NAMM show. No delivery schedule has been announced yet. Alan From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 15:39:19 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 15:29:17 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yO8lv-00000D-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:29:15 -0700 Message-ID: <19980411193443.18194.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 12:34:43 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rev. Doubt-Goat" Subject: Yuppies and Loops, was Re: Looping show tonight, Friday in Portland, OR To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"TaZMWD.A.MCH.S4-L1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4969 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:29:15 -0700 X-UIDL: d110728e9178961f36588b22b3690779 93 I apologize to all for the incorrect date in the message. Obviously, I really meant April 10th. Slap on the temporal wrist for me! On the other hand, the gig has raised a few questions for me that I'd like to share with all and sundry. To give an idea of the setting for last nights gig, NW 23rd in Portland, OR is yuppie central. It's a shopping district, full of little fru-fru shops and restraunts. Starbucks is a chain coffee house and suffers from the sterile interior of all such chains. Into this little world set down 2 musicians with piles of electronic gear full of little blinking lights, strange 10-string insturments, wild whammies and machines that go !ping! Have them play strange drones and dissonant loops, interspersed with pop songs influenced by the likes of Bill Nelson and King Crimson, set to medium volume and then stir vigorously for 2 hours. The result? Instant coffee house clearing! The Yuppies couldn't seem to understand what we were playing, the kid's either didn't understand the loops or were bored by the lack of a constant beat, and the old folks thought it was too loud! When we stopped playing, the place quickly filled up. My impression of the night was that we were too weird for everyone who came through, with maybe four or five exceptions. I have new appreciation for what David Torn and Robert Fripp face when they do this stuff. The questions I have are: 1. Is it possible to play in a non-club setting with a mixture of ambient, illbient and pop and have an audience that will understand? 2. Does the music listening public really only want to hear remakes of what they are used to? I play in a standards jazz band as well, and I know we would have had an audience in the same setting. 3. To what extent should the setting determine the performers actions? i.e. is it appropriate to play chamber music in a rock club and noise/performance art in the opera house? 4. To what extent should the audience reactions have an impact on what the performer performs? 5. What are the roles of the performer and audience? Should there even *be* roles? 6. etc. etc. etc. Of course, I have my own ideas about the above questions, so I would like to hear everyone else's opinions! As loopists, I think these questions are one's we should be asking ourselves everytime we perform in a public setting. 93 Rev. Doubt-Goat (Aethetics for all!) ---"Rev. Doubt-Goat" wrote: > > 93 > > The Ascension Conspiracy will be playing a 2 > hour show at the Starbucks at NW23rd and NW Hoyt > in Portland Oregon tonight, Friday April 23rd > from 8pm to 10pm. Sorry for the late notice. > Dammit Jim, I'm a musician, not a publicist! > > The Ascension Conspiracy consists of: > > 1. The Grand Conspirator Orpheus on Stick, bass, > vocals and loops, and > > 2. The Rev. Doubt-Goat on electric guitar, lap > steel and loops, and > > 3. The Right Honourable Alesis SR-16 on > electronic drums and drum loops. > > Loops provided by JamMan. > > 93 > > Rev. Doubt-Goat (Loops for all! A loop in every > pot!) > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ???@??? Sat Apr 11 15:39:13 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 14:23:09 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yO7ju-0004dL-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:23:06 -0700 Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:19:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: lowfrqcy@west.net (Ryan Blum) Subject: Re: loopers wishlist and basic training tapes Resent-Message-ID: <"40qp6B.A.BFE.b69L1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4968 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 14:23:06 -0700 X-UIDL: 20cac3e1bf4ecd76a58568e07496f880 >I understand that the EBow people are about to release a new version, I >believe it is the EBow Plus (?). Anyone know/seen anything about it? I know that michael manring, the amazing bassist (who is a CRAZY tapper) has experimented wiht some prototype Ebows that have some sort of exaggerated range of upper harmonics. he also uses 2-3 at a time, getting AMAZING results on his Zon fretless bass...Sounds cool to me....my favorite part of the Ebow is the series of overtones you get when bowing an open string, you don't get the same tones when fingering. Anyway, maybe someone can elaborate. Ryan -- "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." -Albert Einstein From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 00:04:14 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 16:05:07 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yO9Kb-000294-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:05:05 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980411180424.006b4b1c@mail.utexas.edu> X-Sender: esker@mail.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:04:24 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthew hahn Subject: Echoplex Question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"6CLeD.A.cwB.Pa_L1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4970 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:05:05 -0700 X-UIDL: 857f1b8349f3659da637bb79f7e08dd2 When reading the Echoplex Manual, a section on the record feature is unclear to me. It makes it seem that one has to be play instanteously, therefore forcing use of the foot pedal, when starting loop record. Can you edit a loops beginning and ending points in the parameters? Mjh From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 00:04:27 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 17:49:35 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOAxe-0007RM-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:49:30 -0700 Message-ID: <000d01bd659f$01bfe2c0$4b3fdacf@earthlight> Reply-To: "Stephen P. Goodman" From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Re: Yuppies and Loops Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:10:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"fzMcUB.A.4rG.v7AM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4974 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:49:30 -0700 X-UIDL: 8c15d57c18420acc0d23d2153047d195 Rev. Doubt-Goat put forth: >To give an idea of the setting for last nights >gig, NW 23rd in Portland, OR is yuppie central. >It's a shopping district, full of little fru-fru >shops and restraunts. Starbucks is a chain >coffee house and suffers from the sterile >interior of all such chains. The above were of course knowns going into this... I'm curious about the way sounds might bounce off of the kind of wood they've got at the Starbucks' actually. Did you encounter a lot of natural reverb from the setting, or was it muffled instead by the multiple nooks the place might have? >!ping! ... [clapping] I myself have identified more with Douglas Adams' "Teaser" actually, in terms of the mysterious "beep-beep" noises and such. :) >Have them >play strange drones and dissonant loops, Well, this could be a beginning to why il multo emptio, that is, if you think it was semi-inaccessible to them, how far perhaps was the material from where they could have 'gotten it'? Sometimes peppering strangeness and dissonance with familiarity can keep even people like that curious, and therefore still there. On the other hand, if you feel that modifying the existing material you have would be a serious compromise of your work, what about the sheer subversiveness of taking an otherwise-familiar song (well, not too familiar) and peppering THAT with strangeness and dissonance. Sort of like Bobby Goldsboro's "That's My Boy" meets "Psycho", you know? Well, just an idea. >interspersed with pop songs influenced by the >likes of Bill Nelson and King Crimson Which ones? You know, it's funny how Bill Nelson and KC go together, though I was initially attracted to BeBop Deluxe before I was what you'd call a serious Fripp devotee. [looking round for flying vegetables] >1. Is it possible to play in a non-club setting >with a mixture of ambient, illbient and pop and >have an audience that will understand? Yes, there ARE places that do this. Some of them, I suspect, are even after-hours clubs, depending on the nature of the Town You're In Right Now. There used to be a used clothes store down in Venice CA named Mama Pajama's, that hosted a mostly folk, but also other styles, showcase for some years. I'd originally targeted them for a good place to play (though I doubt there's much cash in it frankly). Personally, I'm about to foist myself and work on the Internet Cafe market. I still feel like it's unorganized enough to be interesting, though still perhaps necessary to pass the hat, unless everyone just loves the crap out of you, in which case it's no longer just coffeehouses anymore, is it? >2. Does the music listening public really only >want to hear remakes of what they are used to? >I play in a standards jazz band as well, and I >know we would have had an audience in the same >setting. I would say that the expectations of people expecting to hear Jazz, jamming, improvisation of various blends, and such are by default going to be far more eclectic and 'sophisticated' than the Music Listening Public. Reflecting on something Fripp commented about after his last solo efforts in public places, he said that, "in England you can't GIVE this music away". So he still goes back to do these Small and Efficient Unit shows there. Go figure. >3. To what extent should the setting determine >the performers actions? i.e. is it appropriate >to play chamber music in a rock club and >noise/performance art in the opera house? It's times like these that I regret the loss of thousands of mail messages earlier this year. One of them consisted of a thread of answers to questions Fripp himself posted to the Elephant Talk newsletter, regarding things like: "What is the responsibility of the performer? of the audient? What does the performer have a right to expect of the audience? and vice versa?" Fascinating and mind-expanding stuff on the nature of performing, IMHO - though probably findable via http://www.elephant-talk.com (where the archives are). Some of the responses are predictably Frippesque, but all are illuminating nonetheless. >4. To what extent should the audience reactions >have an impact on what the performer performs? See above, of course. I expect that, unless they start heckling en masse, or throwing non-soft or non-solid things at you, it's okay. I think of it on the level that, if the audience is known to be coming to See Me Play, it's one thing. On the other, if they just knew Some Music would be there, and they're just there for the conversation and cafe, it would seem to me - and this is ONLY my opinion - that it's my responsibility to play for the OWNER, since he let you come in in the first place, on the basis that he wanted you there in the first place. If the owner has you there on the strength of a recording/CD you gave him, make sure it's clear what you'll actually be playing. Even they don't like nasty surprises like, expecting "Sunshine On My Shoulder", and getting "Heroin". What I try to think about in this last regard, is that in those cases, I'm there to enhance the atmosphere that already exists in the place. As an ambient musician I find an awful lot of places where self-control is the rule, lest I both get the audiences' attention in a bad way, with nothing 'better' to take them to after (no reward, I suppose), sort of like Michael J. Fox's onstage guitar routine (the one at the end) in Back To The Future. And there's this big frigging silence. And someone coughs or something. Only for comic relief should one do such a thing. Or revenge, if you're into that kind of business. :) >5. What are the roles of the performer and >audience? Should there even *be* roles? In the spirit of IBM manuals, See #4, which points to #3. Stephen Goodman * It's... The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 00:04:18 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 16:33:37 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yO9mB-0003Vj-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:33:35 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: Yuppies and Loops, was Re: Looping show tonight, Friday in Portland, OR Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:26:01 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd65a1$305d41c0$5a08bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"o6BcPD.A.ICD.z0_L1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4971 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:33:35 -0700 X-UIDL: b7f05d0a2beea3984e49d0bfa82565e6 Hey Rev. Doubt-Goat; I understand your frustration. And i believe i have an answer to your questions. #1 you're gonna have to advertise your shows more to get the smart people to visit you. #2 you will find the people that you're looking for in time, and you will have to let them find you, by way of advertisement. #3 I don't think it is inappropriate to have rock in a theater for classical, I know Ozzy played a theater a couple years back here in Columbus, Ohio. #4 Go check out a King Crimson show and you'll find what you're looking for. #5 NO! #6 It's all in the connections. Jeff Collins collinsclan@sprintmail.com -----Original Message----- From: Rev. Doubt-Goat To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Saturday, April 11, 1998 6:27 PM Subject: Yuppies and Loops, was Re: Looping show tonight, Friday in Portland, OR >93 > >I apologize to all for the incorrect date in the >message. Obviously, I really meant April 10th. >Slap on the temporal wrist for me! > >On the other hand, the gig has raised a few >questions for me that I'd like to share with all >and sundry. > >To give an idea of the setting for last nights >gig, NW 23rd in Portland, OR is yuppie central. >It's a shopping district, full of little fru-fru >shops and restraunts. Starbucks is a chain >coffee house and suffers from the sterile >interior of all such chains. > >Into this little world set down 2 musicians with >piles of electronic gear full of little blinking >lights, strange 10-string insturments, wild >whammies and machines that go !ping! Have them >play strange drones and dissonant loops, >interspersed with pop songs influenced by the >likes of Bill Nelson and King Crimson, set to >medium volume and then stir vigorously for 2 >hours. > >The result? Instant coffee house clearing! The >Yuppies couldn't seem to understand what we were >playing, the kid's either didn't understand the >loops or were bored by the lack of a constant >beat, and the old folks thought it was too loud! >When we stopped playing, the place quickly >filled up. > >My impression of the night was that we were too >weird for everyone who came through, with maybe >four or five exceptions. I have new appreciation >for what David Torn and Robert Fripp face when >they do this stuff. > >The questions I have are: > >1. Is it possible to play in a non-club setting >with a mixture of ambient, illbient and pop and >have an audience that will understand? > >2. Does the music listening public really only >want to hear remakes of what they are used to? >I play in a standards jazz band as well, and I >know we would have had an audience in the same >setting. > >3. To what extent should the setting determine >the performers actions? i.e. is it appropriate >to play chamber music in a rock club and >noise/performance art in the opera house? > >4. To what extent should the audience reactions >have an impact on what the performer performs? > >5. What are the roles of the performer and >audience? Should there even *be* roles? > >6. etc. etc. etc. > >Of course, I have my own ideas about the above >questions, so I would like to hear everyone >else's opinions! As loopists, I think these >questions are one's we should be asking >ourselves everytime we perform in a public >setting. > >93 > >Rev. Doubt-Goat (Aethetics for all!) > >---"Rev. Doubt-Goat" wrote: >> >> 93 >> >> The Ascension Conspiracy will be playing a 2 >> hour show at the Starbucks at NW23rd and NW Hoyt >> in Portland Oregon tonight, Friday April 23rd >> from 8pm to 10pm. Sorry for the late notice. >> Dammit Jim, I'm a musician, not a publicist! >> >> The Ascension Conspiracy consists of: >> >> 1. The Grand Conspirator Orpheus on Stick, bass, >> vocals and loops, and >> >> 2. The Rev. Doubt-Goat on electric guitar, lap >> steel and loops, and >> >> 3. The Right Honourable Alesis SR-16 on >> electronic drums and drum loops. >> >> Loops provided by JamMan. >> >> 93 >> >> Rev. Doubt-Goat (Loops for all! A loop in every >> pot!) >> >_________________________________________________________ >> DO YOU YAHOO!? >> Get your free @yahoo.com address at >http://mail.yahoo.com >> >> >> > >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 00:04:20 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 16:37:07 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yO9pa-0003v1-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:37:06 -0700 X-Sender: doug@mail.lightlink.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19980411193443.18194.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:34:48 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Doug Wyatt Subject: Re: Yuppies and Loops Resent-Message-ID: <"1e-mwC.A.jVD.m3_L1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4972 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:37:06 -0700 X-UIDL: ce13aaf61d78c7a9f64963fb9087688e I saw a couple of people playing techno music in a similar venue in Silicon Valley, with the same result -- empty coffee shop, although there were lots of kids hanging out in front. At the time I thought it was really weird, but I think it boils down to the following theory: The louder the music, the more people have to like it -- or the scene that surrounds it -- in order to stick around. If it isn't too loud, one can probably play almost anything one wants in a venue where the music isn't the prime attraction. I somehow manage to sit in (so-called) restaurants playing Muzak without feeling like putting all the kids back in the car. I think a lot of people go to cafes expecting to be able to talk, so if the music's too loud to talk without shouting, even if they're halfway open-minded, they may leave. Or, in the case of the kids and the techno music, go outside where they can hear the music in the background while still being able to talk. Don't take it personally :) Doug -- Doug Wyatt doug@sonosphere.com Sonosphere (music and music software) http://www.sonosphere.com/ "Accidental Beauties" CD release: http://www.sonosphere.com/wyatt/ From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 00:04:32 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 18:34:19 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOBf0-0002Ck-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:34:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199804120011.UAA03666@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Drummer on the Doubt-Goat loop gig Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 20:12:01 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xrgbiC.A.0zB.8lBM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4977 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:34:18 -0700 X-UIDL: 79e4e81b576a04f9a492f545cf98c932 > > ---"Rev. Doubt-Goat" wrote: > > > > The Ascension Conspiracy consists of: > > > > 1. The Grand Conspirator Orpheus on Stick, bass, > > vocals and loops, and > > > > 2. The Rev. Doubt-Goat on electric guitar, lap > > steel and loops, and > > > > 3. The Right Honourable Alesis SR-16 on > > electronic drums and drum loops. WOW !! You had Mac Hine on drums..!?? Didn't Mac play on Holdsworth's "Metal Fatique".? :) andre' From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 00:04:31 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 17:55:45 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOB3a-0000Og-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:55:38 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980411192524.006a2654@mail.utexas.edu> X-Sender: esker@mail.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:25:24 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthew hahn Subject: Re: Yuppies and Loops In-Reply-To: References: <19980411193443.18194.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Wp9VaD.A.OHH.g_AM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4976 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:55:38 -0700 X-UIDL: ca81e67a930011b5e34531d00fdb5def STARBUCKS!!! If you need to say more than what a crime their coffee is and has been, then I suggest you go have a cup of the dark and deleterious brine! And the price, au coutre! And the patrons, sometimes moi, are quite a sight, usually if you have sore eyes. Seattle's Best Coffee, now there's a place to believe in. Go up there and find a good cup o jo, and hell skip that proceed directly to Bauhaus, Paradiso, Six Arms and the Lux (Seattle) From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 00:04:30 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 17:53:39 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOB1a-000096-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:53:34 -0700 Message-Id: <199804120045.UAA16477@shell.monmouth.com> Reply-To: From: "andre" To: Subject: Getting People to gigs. ..and WHAT gigs..? Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 20:46:03 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"5usUVB.A.x2G.d9AM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4975 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:53:34 -0700 X-UIDL: d6fcc90e9339ebe2e2ed0e27b5e8d36b > From: Rev. Doubt-Goat > Subject: Yuppies and Loops, was Re: Looping show tonight, Friday in Portland, OR > Into this little world set down 2 musicians with > piles of electronic gear full of little blinking > lights, strange 10-string insturments, wild..... > The result? Instant coffee house clearing! i've been there too !!! > The questions I have are: > > 1. Is it possible to play in a non-club setting > with a mixture of ambient, illbient and pop and > have an audience that will understand? My duo JFK's LSD UFO has had success doing shows at "new age" bookstores and we've also provided the music for an avant garde dance/painting mutimedia thing - it's funny - at that one the power went out - rendering my tons of electronic crap useless - but my partner continued to drum away gently, - the audience thought it was all part of the show and didn't really notice!!! I recommend reaching out to any art galleries in your area, too, we're gonna do an art opening this summer sometime - also look for weird dance companies or other artists who may want to collaborate and have your sound sculptures set the mood.. > > 2. Does the music listening public really only > want to hear remakes of what they are used to? Pretty much so. Someone else spoke of advertizing to the 'right people' or wordz to that effect - even this is tough. we sent out a mailing list, we've even massively flyered for a show after a local crimson gig about 2 yrs back, with feeble or no response. It's tough, people into challenging musaic like we all do - roughly tend to be in that demographic where they don't really go out that much!! and so the show times are another issue. Also - a lot of them have kids - so we need to develop all-ages, open events. We're gonna play the Trenton Avant Garde festival this september - any Jersey/Philly people - get in touch with me if interested - i can tell you where to submit a tape - it's mostly experimental music, but lots of electronics, loops, some poetry too. Perhaps you can look for stuff like this in your state.. call state parks and get an idea when festivals are gonna be, and if they have or would like to have music. Do it for cheap, sell tapes/CDs and get people exposed to this "new" form of music. I try to stay psyched - we playe last sunday nite - on a bill with Bon Lozaga - guitarist/looper from BON, GONG, GONGZILLA, CARYN LIN's band and various other stuff on his LOLO label. You can hear his stuff at http://www.artist-shop.com.. very cool In any event, you'd think this gig had all the right elements: - early start on a sunday night - 8:15pm - cheap - $5.00 - 18 and over admission - we did a sizable mailing list to prog heads/loop heads/ zappa freaks - huge e-mailing - local radio spots on an alternative radio station - local spots on a public/jazz station that plays tons of Bon's 'fusion' stuff - dozens of flyers handed out But - yet - we played to a tiny crowd !!! 20-30 people including sound man, bar owner, bartender, the other 2 bands, etc. Bummer. What does it take to get people out??? - We all had a good time, though, and the bar owner plaedged his upport for "stuff on the edge like this" and will do it again. But i too, would like hints on how we can all get our unique music heard. Are we all tripping ?? Is this self-indulgent crap in a world that wants songs??? I play those too in another project, and i DEFINITELY see the difference when we 'sneak in' a weird little jam. Ah, questions, questions. again - in summary - howza bout: - look out for bookstores, esp. those conducive to meditative, loopy stuff (i know - that's not all you do, but it's a foot in the door) - find public ways of showing people what you do - look for cool opening gigs, perhaps a 30 min set opening for a captive audience is better than having a whole nite -playing to 7 people..??! - get your stuff to a local college or public radio station, esp. one with a trippy radio show - forget everything i've said and try something that works!!!! Peace, and Loop away, Andre' east From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 00:04:33 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 18:39:55 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOBkP-0002pS-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:39:53 -0700 Message-ID: <002501bd65b3$58afa7a0$6223dacf@earthlight> Reply-To: "Stephen P. Goodman" From: "Stephen P. Goodman" To: Subject: Re: Yuppies and Loops Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:35:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"wjL6yD.A.ZQC.RqBM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4978 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:39:53 -0700 X-UIDL: b07ca4c98f22fc744bc9331af710005b Some additional thoughts on this. What does everyone think of the home-town tactic, so to speak, of getting friends into the place in addition to the others that may show up? I've gone to more than a couple of friends' gigs to aid in "filling the place up" so the owner'll ask 'em back. Hey, publicity isn't just blatant, sometimes all it has to be is implied, eh? Doug Wyatt said: >The louder the music, the more people have to like it -- or the scene that >surrounds it -- in order to stick around. Mind you, it's a leap of faith sometimes, but putting ambient stuff through a good distributed PA (Buster's in Pasadena has two floors, as such), which doesn't have to be pants-rattling in order to be more-than-listenable. >I think a lot of people go to cafes expecting to be able to talk, so if the >music's too loud to talk without shouting, even if they're halfway >open-minded, they may leave. Or, in the case of the kids and the techno >music, go outside where they can hear the music in the background while >still being able to talk. The thing is, if they go outside, they're not paying customers. I wondered some time ago whether there would be an equivalent to "Louie, Louie" in the ambient world, that coffeehouse owners would always want us to play, which would magically cause everyone to want to drink more coffee. Or has this happened already up in Seattle? :) Stephen Goodman * It's... The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 00:04:34 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 18:58:41 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOC2a-0003oU-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:58:40 -0700 Message-ID: <35302100.4A0C@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:03:43 -0700 From: Andre LaFosse Reply-To: altruist@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Yuppies and Loops References: <19980411193443.18194.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HnEFdB.A.PUD.18BM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4979 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:58:40 -0700 X-UIDL: 11434d3223b7a65986bf9c865524de5e Rev. Doubt-Goat wrote: > The questions I have are: > > 1. Is it possible to play in a non-club setting > with a mixture of ambient, illbient and pop and > have an audience that will understand? One point I've got to make right off the bat: Any musician who is performaing music is basically castingĘthemselves in the role of a guide. If you're playing music for people, then you're essentially entering into a situation where the audience is looking for you to take them *somewhere*. But before any listener can be taken somewhere, the musicians themselves need some sort of clarity in terms of where they're trying to go. If you don't know what you're trying to do, or how you're going to try and go about doing it, you can't be too surprised if you don't wind up going anywhere, and you certainly can't be disappointed if you don't take anyone with you. So if you're worried about the *audience* understanding what you're doing, you've first got to ask yourself, "Do *I* understand what I'm doing?" This does *not* mean that free-improv, abstract, avante-garde, or otherwise experimental music is incapable of commanding attention. "Knowing what you're doing" in the sense that I'm talking about isn't about playing carefully-rehearsed compositions, or having a fixed notion of what the music is supposed to sound like before you play it. It's about having an understanding of the way that you're approaching your music, and an awareness of whatever happens to be transpiring at any given time in the music, coupled with the ability to *respond* to that in a musically sensitive manner that can allow you to navigate the course of whatever path you wind up on. I absolutely feel that too often, musicians in non-mainstream or experimental realms, who are unable to elicit a favorable response from listeners, automatically assume that whatever they were doing was too "sophisticated," or "forward-thinking," or just plain "good" for the "uncultured masses," when in fact they could very well have been asking their listeners to try and glean meaning from the sonic equivalent of a train wreck. This is in *no way* a statement that you were necessarily guilty of this syndrome. Not having heard any of your music, or the performance you describe, I can't make a judgement like that. But anyone who's making musicĘfor other people to listen to (which in my reasoning includes anyone who performs in public or releases a recording) needs to remember that you can't expect people to follow what you're doing if you can't follow it yourself. > 2. Does the music listening public really only > want to hear remakes of what they are used to? > I play in a standards jazz band as well, and I > know we would have had an audience in the same > setting. I think you've got to realize that the mainstream segment of any audience is going to be familiar principally with whatever happens to be the dominant mainstream music at that time. A lot of people who have spent a substantial amount of their lives listening to a certain type of music have trouble with different styles because they don't necessarily know how to listen to different sorts of music. If somebody whose listening runs the gamut from Barbra Streisand to Yanni to Kenny G is exposed to Photek or Aphex Twin, they're probably going to have a problem, because they're being exposed to music that operates along very different principles. Also be aware than most people's exposure to music comes via mainstream channels, i.e. commercial radio and television, Hollywood cinema, chain retail record stores, and magazines like _Rolling Stone_. A lot of people don't have the time, inclination, or resources to educate themselves about music that falls underneath the mainstream radar. A lot of people who *would* like to educate themselves about this music don't know where to begin. Thirdly, realize that those of us who *are* attuned to more underground musics are going to have our own set of expectations and ideas about where to seek those sorts of musics out. If I want to buy a Squarepusher album, I won't go to Sam Goody. And if I'm looking for illbient/pop performances in town, I won't likely be skimming the paper for Starbucks ads. If you want to try and find an audience that is willing (and maybe able) to give your music a try, then you should get an understanding of the best avenues towards making those people aware of what you do. Having (or lacking) this understanding is one reason why major-label pop stars often end up owning their record comapnies several hundred thousand dollars, while some home-studio producers can release records on small independent labels and then buy sports cars with the profits. This all boils down to the fact that different music operates along different principles, and needs to be approached and listened to in different ways. Getting people to make the transition isn't easy, and if you're going to try and change the way they're listening, you should also try and present something that's worth listening to! Here's a not-at-all brief anecdote which might shed some more light on what I'm talking about: At the end of 1997, I did four performances at an LA-based localle. The place billed itself largely as an experimental music performance venue, coupled with an art gallery, rare CD and book resource, and restaurant. It quickly became apparent to me, however, that the main thrust of the venue was towards being a restaurant first and foremost (and, in a rather ironic twist, one which is prohibitively expensive for the vast majority of the musicians who are represented there, either as live performers or as recording artists). The manager of the club made it abundantly clear that he wanted the primary appeal of the place to be as a restaurant, with the music more of a background, atmospheric element, and that he would definitely prefer to err on the side of having the music fall by the wayside. (Strangely enough, the vanue continues to this day to have itself listed in the music club section of the local papers, rather than in the restaurant section). Paradoxically, the musicians, who are designated to being a background element in the environment, recieve no fixed pay for their role, but rather are offered two-thirds of the door cover (the other one-third going to the soundman, itself a highly dubious arrangement). The problem here is that people who come to eat dinner there don't pay a cover charge, yet people who *do* come to hear the music might well find themselves unable to properly hear the music due to its subserviant role. Such was the case during my second-to-last performance there, wherein the sole person who had come to hear me pay -- who, as it happens, had not had to pay a door charge -- asked me if he could get a tape of the show afterwards, as he had been unable to hear much of the music from his vantage point of approximately eight feet in front of the stage. The soundman (who in any event had been deprived of his night's pay of $1.00 by the door person's failure to collect a cover fee) had spent the entirety of my performance behind the counter in the kitchen as a cook. The only adjustments made to my sound from out front were from the manager, who turned me down at a point when there were no actual people dining, and subsequently turned me back up when I went offstage and mentioned that I couldn't hear what I was playing. The responses I tended to get from the dining clientelle there (who were almost uniformly affluent, privileged, and not at all the sort of audience that would ordinarily frequent an experimental music show) generally followed a consistent course, starting with amusement and pleasant surprise at this fellow on stage with a guitar making all these strange noises, which gradually gave way to visible disdain for the noises emanating forth from the speakers while they tried to carry on conversation over their gourmet meals. A nasty sort of Catch-22 tended to develop, wherein my already abstract music would set the people on edge; in response to this, my music got more confrontational and challenging. Not a good quality for dinner music. The last show I did there was as the opening act for a guitar loop-based artist who I had referred to the club, who was in the middle of a four-month residency (and who continues to this day to perform there on a regular basis). My set at the beginning (which took place before cover started to be collected) was my "standard" (for that place, anyway) fare, which met with a predictable response; at one point I saw an older couple stare at me for a moment before shaking their heads in bewilderment and disgust, and walking out of the door. The main set by the headliner was clearly more appropriate to the situation. It wasn't as confrontational; it had little if any dissonance or clash; and the guest Stick player that night, who did a number of solo pieces, was clearly the audience's favorite. His own music was very inviting, soothing stuff (sort of in a New Age/Windham Hill vein), which blended into the dinner atmosphere quite seamlessly. Several of his pieces, both solo and with the main performer, were greeted by pronouced applause at the end. Later on in the headliner's set, I was invited back onstage to do some joint improvisation. Since there was already a lot of electronic sound flying around, I decided to play "straight" guitar in a more traditional manner (i.e. melodies, scales, and other such bits of arcana). The music wound up settling into what seemed like a very unassuming, approachable vein, and the change in the audience was clear. At one point I glanced up, and some of the patrons were actually *listening to the music*, smiling and nodding their heads. In spite of the small victory, that gig was the last I ever heard from the management of the club, which is fine with me. I don't see what I do as ambient or background music; I found myself unable and unwilling to adapt what I do to fit into the environment there, and if that's what the club needs in order to function, they're better off not booking someone like myself, and I'm better off seeking alternative outlets for performance. > 3. To what extent should the setting determine > the performers actions? i.e. is it appropriate > to play chamber music in a rock club and > noise/performance art in the opera house? This is a bit of an extension of the first question. I think that any performance has to take into account the environment that it's happening in, and then try to figure out what connection, if any, can be made then and there. If you basically have one fundamental type of musical statement that you churn out regardless of the environment, then it's a bit like have one stock answer that you recite from memory, regardless of what the question is -- and regardless of how relevant to that question the answer might be. So if you're going into a Starbucks in an affluent area to play illbient music, you've got to think about some things: What sort of situation am I entering into, and more importantly, what do I hope to accomplish by bringing my music into this situation? What is your motivation for doing this? What is it about your music that you hope or expect to translate into this venue? > 4. To what extent should the audience reactions > have an impact on what the performer performs? Again, this has everything to do with the situation you're in, and what you expect to get out of it. To carry over from the last question: if you're performing for an audience that came specifically to hear your music, that's a vastly different situation than if you're playing music in the background of an environment filled with people who would be there regardless of whether or not you were present. So if you're in the middle of a coffeehouse, and you find that everybody is getting driven out by your presence there, you have to ask yourself if it's more important for you to do your thing, regardless of the impact that it's having on other people, or if you're going to try and win your potential audience over by finding a way of making what you do translate into something they're more receptive to. An advocate of the first option would probably justify it in the name of art for art's sake and the musician sticking to his guns, without compromise, regardless of the scorn or disdain heaped upon him. Someone arguing the second choice might raise the idea that a musician who plops down in the middle of a mainstream coffe shop and starts playing experimental or abstract music is potentially creating an intrusion into the normal workings of that environment, and has to be prepared to either deal with the consequences of doing so, or else try to see how far these two otherwise disparate elements might be bent towards one another. Think about this: What sort of reception do you think Celine Dion would get if she performed at New York's Knitting Factory, or if Michael Bolton did a surprise gig at Spaceland in LA, or if Puff Daddy crashed Beanbender's in Berkley? > 5. What are the roles of the performer and > audience? Should there even *be* roles? Robert Fripp (everyone's favorite around these parts) has probably spent more time philosophizing about the audience/performer relationship over the last decade than he's actually spent being a performer in front of an audience, and has all manner of things to say on this subject. I won't delve into the lengthy and highly philosophical ideas therein, but I will say this: If you're a musician, and you're making music in front of people, at some point you've got to ask yourself *why* you're doing this. If you just want to make art for art's sake, and don't give a damn about what people think about it, then more power to you. But if you go to the trouble of actually setting up a performance, booking a time and place, setting up instrumentation and equipment (particularly the gargantuan amount of technology that many loopists tend to use on a regular basis) in a place specifically designated for your performance, and then start playing in front of people, then you've *got* to at least consider what it is that you're trying to do by taking your music and presenting it in front of other people. I would offer forth the notion that a musician who's playing in public is inviting whoever happens to be there to listen to what they're doing. This being the case, the musician then has to deal with the same issue I've been coming back to over and over in this post: What am I trying to accomplish here, and how can I accomplish it? > 6. etc. etc. etc. See above. --Andre LaFosse From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 00:04:38 1998 >From kflint Sat Apr 11 21:36:01 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOEUo-0002qp-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 21:35:58 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980411223201.0069b170@mail.utexas.edu> X-Sender: esker@mail.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 22:32:01 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthew hahn Subject: Re: Yuppies and Loops, was Re: Looping show tonight, Friday in Portland, OR In-Reply-To: <19980411193443.18194.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"Psq2fB.A.yaC.PQEM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4980 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 21:35:58 -0700 X-UIDL: 10a51059d07e9c4c37be7b224900e18a One thing I have noticed is that when people playing avant garde music turn up levels, in a coffeehaus, it is the best interest to be having people come there who know you. Then you can see if the "rubberneck" syndrome applies to music. Domino theory, etc. At a coffeehaus one goes for any number of reasons, at Starbucks, aka not a coffeehaus, one goes to sit on ones derriere and bring "armchair philosophy" into this Neo-Victorian age. So of course they would like to hear themselves talk, not necessarily each other, and so vicariously "shoot the breeze". If you happen to add more output, than the mundane bright buorgeousie existence of said "venue", i.e., passing above their expressionless yet oh so bright voices, please watch for lumbering bodies out the commode of Starbucks. Tom Waits would say: I pray you pass by or pass down volume mack, donna go dere, dey's a bit narra. Mjh From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 01:26:25 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 12 00:28:26 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOHBh-0000s2-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 00:28:25 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Javier Miranda V." To: Subject: RE: Yuppies and Loops - Re: Looping show -- Comments Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 22:54:14 -0700 Message-ID: <000a01bd65d8$3e9782a0$9b849bd0@electra> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <19980411193443.18194.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"2YyxaD.A.yn.TyGM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4981 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 00:28:25 -0700 X-UIDL: 5bd1650cb80c10a4009b39d02a550837 I'd like to comment on the questions posed by Dr. Doubt -Goat from his band's concert at a Starbucks in Yuppie Central, Portland, Oregon. I played concerts in NYC with an Electro Harmonix 16-sec. Digital Delay and other EH goodies back in the early 80s, and I have pondered these questions for many years, hence I feel I can add something to the conversation -- which I love by the way; I have been reading the list for a while, singing birds and all. 1. Is it possible to play in a non-club setting with a mixture of ambient, illbient and pop and have an audience that will understand? >> IMHO, the audience's understanding is such a Holy Grail. What makes this up? Is it school education? Is it the positive open-minded attitude? How does that come about? I am convinced that children raised on U.S. television and Hollywood movies cannot appreciate "newness," innovation. They've been conditioned for the expected, the "sweets." Any bitterness prompts them for the remote. I understand that in Europe people are more appreciative of outlandish artistic efforts, and will listen to you, to see what you have to say. They might even find it inspiring and have you come back. So, do you have to stand up and explain what you are going to do, where you're coming from, etc.? Must there be some preceding hype, radio interviews, posters glued on walls, etc., for people to "want" to listen to you? Audience acceptance of such a gig as yours hinges, I think, on the awareness of your intentions. I've been to many Fripp performances where I felt disconnected -- I like to know what Fripp is thinking about, what he's been reading, what musical experiments he's been doing the past year, etc., and from that get a perspective on where he's "going" that night of the concert -- makes all the difference for me. I also believe this applies to people like Ace of Base and the latest techno stuff. Fans find it more interesting. How does that translate for us the unknowns? How can we make them feel connected if they don't know us? Do we even need them to feel connected? I mean, does it make a difference for Fripp if I'm connected? I wouldn't bet either way, by the way. 2. Does the music-listening public really only want to hear remakes of what they are used to? I play in a standards jazz band as well, and I know we would have had an audience in the same setting. >> Well, who were you playing for? I play my tapes to all kinds of people. I've got friends who are into James Taylor, Elton John, etc., who make weird faces at my music. Other friends into Yes, Tangerine Dream, etc., their faces brighten up -- it's very cool to see that. I would like to know who are the people who frequent a spot before committing to playing loops for them. Scary: Play loops for country-music cowboys. People who go to a concert hall have different intentions from people who go to Starbucks, that's for sure. Same effect as when you play Fripp or Crimson at a party in your place -- you're bound to alienate some people. However, invariably, they like my Eno ambient CDs, and ask who's that, etc. I have other quiet CDs like that that people like. There's a great deal of reading about the therapeutic effects of music, going all the way back to Pythagoras (who happened to hate brass, saying they were loud and crass; he loved strings). In my experience, I found that people can get hooked if my loops are harmonious, meditative, quiet, and they will pay attention then. I've often wondered about playing at a hospital and see what effects I can get. Maybe this year I'll get the nerves to do it. I had splendid experiences playing at a spiritual center in NYC years ago. 3. To what extent should the setting determine the performers actions? i.e. is it appropriate to play chamber music in a rock club and noise/performance art in the opera house? >> I would repeat myself as in my comment to Question 2, except to add that we might consider the audience's intentions -- what can you calculate are the odds for what they are looking to hear that night? How could you "persuade" them to hear you? There is a certain measure of focused concentration -- or outright indifference -- in people's attitudes towards music listening. Are you providing background for their conversation at a club, or are you playing to their full awareness at a concert hall? Then there' s the matter of party music -- when everybody gets on the groove because they recognise the tune, and they love it, and they even start "snaking" around the hall dancing. I do not believe it would ever happen that you could get this reaction from people by playing a "new" tune, something they've never heard before -- include me in there. (But I wouldn't bet on it; anything can happen.) There is a certain measure of knowing the tune because of the way it's bonded to our memories, to who we are. I cannot listen to "Spirit in the Sky" by Norman Greenbaum and not feel like I'm 10 years old again and dancing at some party with the other kids... It's burned in my brain that way. This recognition factor is very important for an audience to do without intentionally when preparing to listen to loopers like you or me play. It should be part of the "contract." 4. To what extent should the audience reactions have an impact on what the performer performs? >> This is a very good question. Should I start crying because they hate what I'm doing, or should I stoically continue until they bend their wills? Who are we playing *for* anyway? Are we playing for them, really? Shouldn't we go out and play for the sake of the art alone, for the development of our skills and the further expression of our creativity? Why are we creative? Why do we derive importance from the approval we would get from an audience? What important relationship does that have directly with our music? Since we are treading on relatively new grounds here with our loops, John Cage's efforts from years gone by come to mind. All of these "modern contemporary" music (pardon my ignorance of more correct terminology) people, who "prepare" pianos with steel rods and other things stuck on the strings, and in general, some people say they desecrate the classical instruments, all of these people must deal with a great deal of resistance. We should be more like the Borg, I think: "Resistance is futile." (Love that Seven girl.) (I would have no resistance with her whatsoever...) Zappa taught us all about the audience, as well. He sure got flack. But he kept going. I've often wondered what his motivations were, but then again, one listen to the "Sheik Yer Booty" and it's kind of obvious. I got a tape I recorded of a concert of his in 1982 at the Pier in NYC; we could swap if you'd like to hear it. The dude was joyous! And you couldn't avoid getting joyous with him. Remember how people got so agitated and negative from listening to Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring" way back like 90 years ago. These people were waiting for stuff like Strauss, or Mozart, maybe, who knows? They didn't know how to deal with Stravinsky. Come to think of it, I'd be kind of scared preparing to play music at Starbucks for the yuppies. But in the final analysis, you did well by ploughing ahead and going through the whole two hours. You went ahead with your musical development, and I think that's more important than their walking out on you. Should you change your music for their liking? Did Stravinsky? I think we should focus on doing the best we can. If anything, the only thing that scaled down Stravinsky's works was the lack of income. Here's an extract from an article by one Nicholas Tawa (in the Grolier's Encyclopedia) about the state of modern musicians in the U.S.: "After World War II, atonality or out-and-out serialism characterized the music of Milton Babbitt, George Rochberg, Elliott Carter, and Charles Wuorinen; indeterminacy and fantastic sound production, that of John Cage, Morton Feldman, and Earle Brown. Both groups also introduced electronically processed resonances into some scores. The public accepted none of it. Concurrently, composers more restrained in style took their cue from neoclassicism or romanticism--Copland or Barber--and labored at the other end of the creative spectrum: John La Montaine, Lee Hoiby, Carlisle Floyd, Peter Mennin, Jack Beeson, Benjamin Lees, Ned Rorem, Leonard Bernstein. A variety of independent styles set apart still other composers: Alan Hovhaness with his Armenian cum Renaissance idiom; George Crumb and his atmospheric evocations; La Monte Young, Terry Riley, Philip Glass, Steve Reich, John Adams and their minimalist use of endlessly repeated patterns; and the various eclecticisms of David Del Tredici, John Corigliano, John Harbison, Michael Colgrass, and Ellen Zwilich. By the end of the century there was a growing concern that contemporary art music was about to lose its audience completely. Most composers became engaged in trying to integrate all viable ideas from the past and retaining their creative integrity while winning back the music public." Read "endlessly repeated patterns" as loops? There's a lot of further reading on this question. 5. What are the roles of the performer and audience? Should there even *be* roles? >> This reminds me of that Utopia-band guy, I forget his name, who went on tour with some balls that he would pass around the audience which would trigger his MIDI synths, and this was meant to show how an audience could become part of the music-making process. Apart from inspiring some kids to become engaged with technological music, I doubt he made any imprints on the face of the modern musical landscape. The only roles I know of are the musician as energy generator and the audience as energy consumer, and viceversa. This sounds rather depressingly like an economic equation, and I shouldn't say it, except that it helps me explain how *our culture* views music and musicians. We want to see an exchange of goods in all phases of our lives, and I do not believe this works with art. Things die. Art is eternal. This doesn't mean that there are musicians not wanting this. I am aware of a good many musicians wanting to sell goods. I also know of good artists who create striving for beauty, strength, the unpronounceable. How do other cultures view the relationship we see as audience and performer? What are the other points of view on this? Can cultures be changed? Should we worry about that? Are we products of the times we live in? I believe artists can change the times. Our collective attitudes and values are pretty well expressed, I believe, in a good artist's creation. Our culture, however, is pretty much muddled up and confused. There is too much stuff happening too fast -- at least for me. And we are trying to cope with it by 19th-century or even 17th-century means. We need new perspectives, new languages, new ways of managing our knowledge. But, like the waters of the river after the storm, things clear up later. Years later we declare Bach one of the greatest, when the people of his day couldn't care less for him, the local organist. I am ever so thankful for him to have continued on with his work, to develop it even though he probably didn't feel "successful" enough in his lifetime. And with almost two dozen kids! What if he had said "Screw them, I'll never play for them again"? Would that have qualified as selfish? What is pitch dark for some is bright enough for others. There is an extra amount created when you look at the sum of musicians plus audience. That something extra, the unpronounceable, that's what is important. I want to thank you for this ending up a bit therapeutic for me. I feel renewed and want to go back and kick some ass with my loops. Although my EH 16-sec. Digital Delay hasn't worked in years, I'm now saving up for my new Echoplex next month from a shop in San Rafael. I'm also getting Acid for my Windows machine -- it's gonna be cool... Best regards, Javier Miranda V. Berkeley, Calif. -----Original Message----- From: Rev. Doubt-Goat [mailto:dgoat@rocketmail.com] Sent: Saturday, April 11, 1998 12:35 PM To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Yuppies and Loops, was Re: Looping show tonight, Friday in Portland, OR 93 To give an idea of the setting for last nights gig, NW 23rd in Portland, OR is yuppie central. It's a shopping district, full of little fru-fru shops and restraunts. Starbucks is a chain coffee house and suffers from the sterile interior of all such chains. Into this little world set down 2 musicians with piles of electronic gear full of little blinking lights, strange 10-string insturments, wild whammies and machines that go !ping! Have them play strange drones and dissonant loops, interspersed with pop songs influenced by the likes of Bill Nelson and King Crimson, set to medium volume and then stir vigorously for 2 hours. The result? Instant coffee house clearing! The Yuppies couldn't seem to understand what we were playing, the kid's either didn't understand the loops or were bored by the lack of a constant beat, and the old folks thought it was too loud! When we stopped playing, the place quickly filled up. My impression of the night was that we were too weird for everyone who came through, with maybe four or five exceptions. I have new appreciation for what David Torn and Robert Fripp face when they do this stuff. The questions I have are: 1. Is it possible to play in a non-club setting with a mixture of ambient, illbient and pop and have an audience that will understand? 2. Does the music listening public really only want to hear remakes of what they are used to? I play in a standards jazz band as well, and I know we would have had an audience in the same setting. 3. To what extent should the setting determine the performers actions? i.e. is it appropriate to play chamber music in a rock club and noise/performance art in the opera house? 4. To what extent should the audience reactions have an impact on what the performer performs? 5. What are the roles of the performer and audience? Should there even *be* roles? 6. etc. etc. etc. Of course, I have my own ideas about the above questions, so I would like to hear everyone else's opinions! As loopists, I think these questions are one's we should be asking ourselves everytime we perform in a public setting. From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 02:24:18 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 12 01:31:48 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOIAy-00035Q-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:31:44 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19980411193443.18194.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:16:39 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Yuppies and Loops Resent-Message-ID: <"uPpOJ.A.gVC.KrHM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4982 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:31:44 -0700 X-UIDL: 779c1439038a770dd0ed0387b9035e33 >1. Is it possible to play in a non-club setting >with a mixture of ambient, illbient and pop and >have an audience that will understand? no idea if any of you are guilty of this, but one thing I often notice about more musiciany, "experimental" types, is that they don't realize that performing is a skill too. What they do on stage other than the music can be pretty dull. It usually takes more than just the music to be entertaining in a live setting, especially if the audience isn't familiar with the music. I've often had the experience of being fully entertained by a *performance* when I either didn't like or didn't understand the music that went with it. Maybe that's part of the key? Take some lessons from some of those dreadful cover band types just on how to be an entertainer? So you might want to explore the stage presence and charisma side of it as a way to draw the audience into what you are doing musically. That might help them understand it as well. Visual activity can do a lot of explaining for you. And if that isn't doing it, maybe you can pause and simply explain it to them with words, stimulate their curiosity and interest, and maybe just make some personal connections with the audience. People are willing to sit around a bit longer if they just like the people on stage as humans..... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 02:24:20 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 12 01:32:12 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOIBO-00038D-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:32:10 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <352FB680.24FC@ix.netcom.com> References: <199804092014_MC2-3962-5A75@compuserve.com> <352E0F17.53359B2F@csi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:20:09 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Looper Wishlist Resent-Message-ID: <"ArPZrB.A.6VC.MrHM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4983 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:32:10 -0700 X-UIDL: b1ff51d776f448c09222e4908d440e11 At 1:29 PM -0500 4/11/98, Mike Artemenko wrote: >A while back there was mention of a compilation of user contributions to >an applications manual for the Echoplex DP. I would find this to be a >great help in tying up or twisting all that parameter info in the user >manual. I wouldn't really do that to my EDP would I? I hope something >like this comes about. Any info is appreciated. > >Mike I think oberheim was talking about doing something like that, you might want to contact them. I don't know whether they are still pursuing that or not. Of course, there is always the playing tips on the Looper's Delight site, and anybody who wants to contribute more stuff to that is certainly welcome. Indeed, encouraged! That's the point of it right? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 02:24:19 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 12 01:32:00 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOIB9-00036V-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:31:55 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <352FA1C2.7DC0DEC2@pi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:23:58 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Plex, Europ and CE Resent-Message-ID: <"xNf0PD.A.HXC.SrHM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4984 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:31:55 -0700 X-UIDL: 95370982d189eefc801b13cb3db8955e >Hi, > >This is probably an oldie, but anyway... >I live in the Netherlands and wanny buy a Plex. >But these are not available in Europe. >My questions are simple: > >- Can I order one from the States, and where? don't know about that one. You might try bananas at large, http://www.bananas.com >- Will a US plex work with 220-230V, 50Hz? yes, there is a switch on the back to allow 220-230V. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 02:51:43 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 12 02:35:07 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOJAI-00058V-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 02:35:06 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9804118923.AA892308079@fsmtp.faulkcomp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 02:32:15 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: I need unsubscribe info Resent-Message-ID: <"G75IGD.A.BoE.HpIM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4985 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 02:35:06 -0700 X-UIDL: bc4f86b695ef6ca012a08aa47dc4a41f At 10:45 AM -0700 4/11/98, mmason@faulkcomp.com wrote: > Could someone please post unsubscribe information. I don't have time > to keep up with my reading all the postings. on the website: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/list/LoopList.html kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 11:20:23 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 12 06:39:34 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOMyq-0002T7-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 06:39:33 -0700 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 14:26:46 +0100 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: babs Subject: Digitech TSR12 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Trial Version 3.03a Resent-Message-ID: <"3aobXC.A.9IC.fOMM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4986 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 06:39:33 -0700 X-UIDL: 13ff9bc7ad7f2fdd730751606a8d2ba2 My old delay finally went to the graveyard of rack units in the sky. So I've been on the lookout for a replacement and found an unused TSR12 in a local music shop for a reasonable price, so is anyone out there using one in their rig or does anyone have any comments on the TSR12? Babs From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 11:20:31 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 12 10:01:30 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOQ8H-0001qI-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 10:01:29 -0700 From: bryan.helm@dinosaur.com Message-ID: <9804121054.0FBZW00@dinosaur.com> Organization: The Dinosaur Board X-Mailer: TBBS/TIGER v1.0 Date: Sun, 12 Apr 98 10:54:52 -0700 Subject: Truth via Doubt To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"LUIKp.A.JgB.jLPM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4987 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 10:01:29 -0700 X-UIDL: 0015161a4beaba013d4d9a13c2f3ce61 The subtle beauty and grace of good ambient music or the power,exactitude and textural wizardry of great avante garde compositions, is for the most part lost on the masses of folks who constitute the available audience for such work. This has always been the case and always will. To redefine the needs of your marketplace to fit your product is your only hope and it's non-existant, much like the emperor's clothes. In his book "The Frontiers of Meaning" Canadian composer/author Charles Rosen says that "understanding" music is really a question of the listener being "comfortable" with it. Any artist who wrestles with an "alternative" material,style, or media does so first and foremost as a personal crusade. The need to bring this work to a public forum as a measure of it's congruency with commerce, is the chief bastardization of all artisitc intent related to the honest evolution of an art form. The availability and functionality of the electronic devices we use to loop are defined by activities and motives,that favor the corporate rational over the artistic whim in the long run (with all due respect to the industry brains,cogs & moguls who populate this list). So the tools of the trade are few and far between, widely varied in capabilities, and mostly not in current production....the listening public doesn't know the difference between a constantly triggered sample or a closed loop, unless you lip synch poorly to it...and you have to figure out how much personal sacrifice (economical,emotional,etc.) you can really stand to make in the pursuit of some esoteric, ethereal, and estranging art form. Whether it's 100,000 plus CD's sold or gig proceeds(tips) for gas, the current public measure of your work is the least of the clues you'll ever get towards it's true validity. Think of what a gratifying experience it'll be for your decendants when you're finally recognized as a pioneer of late 20th century music, your compositions studied, period effects ensembles formed to perorm your works galaxy wide. Meanwhile even the greats "can't give it away", sometimes...is it any wonder why? Bryan(now deflating my shoes & ego)Helm From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 23:51:21 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 12 19:13:25 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOYkK-0004J5-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 19:13:20 -0700 Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 22:07:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Levin To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Thanks! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"6fhpYD.A.xjD.nOXM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4989 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 19:13:20 -0700 X-UIDL: f5b34805301b184e71f3fe6d8e67f48c The Dark Aether Project wants to thank everyone who tuned into our live performance on The Gagliarchives on WBZC 88.9 last night, our hosts Tom Gagliardi and Charlie Nolan, our friends Bill Berends of Mastermind and Scott McGill & Chris Eike of Finneus Gauge for dropping by the studio for moral (and immoral!) support and especially all the nice folks who phoned in with kind words. Come see us this Thursday night at E.J. Bugs at 702 South Broadway Street in Baltimore. -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t http://www.ari.net/prog/bands/dap/ From ???@??? Sun Apr 12 23:51:30 1998 >From kflint Sun Apr 12 22:08:52 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yObUB-0007Jb-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 22:08:51 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: looking to buy! Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 01:01:29 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd6699$3821a380$6608bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD6677.B1100380" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"vfTioB.A.zmG.H1ZM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4990 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 22:08:51 -0700 X-UIDL: 8ccee48247c6ebca1377cba691d799b1
I am looking to buy an Oberheim Echoplex or perhaps a Lexicon JamMan.
I know the in's and out's and I know that they both work good and that's all that really matters.
I also have a Godin LGX-SA for sale of a price around 1,000. And the price can vary. Especially if you wanna work on a little trade.
It is in perfect condition. Transparent RED with a FLAME maple top (carved). 
Custom Duncan pick-ups and all the other goodies.
Let me know! 
 
Jeff Collins
 
From ???@??? Mon Apr 13 10:02:04 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 09:20:48 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOlyR-0000o8-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:20:47 -0700 Message-ID: <3532305B.79C75A65@intcpi.com> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:33:47 -0400 From: jprice@intcpi.com (John Price) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: andre@monmouth.com CC: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Getting People to gigs. ..and WHAT gigs..? References: <199804120045.UAA16477@shell.monmouth.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"t9HCfD.A.OG.sojM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4991 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:20:47 -0700 X-UIDL: 3ef94cac51212dd870a046058151d833 I said somethin to this effect b4 a while bk. Statement: Looping doesnât have a larger audience because its simply tied to artists that donât move a lot of product to a large and mass audiences. Looping still is home to the overly analytical and cerebral types of energy. Those folks do more damge than good to music in any category cause they reduce music to something less than the gifts it can bear. Now There are tons o' people loopin but you still often tend to think of them as cello or flute wielding, or quasi jazz/neo-classical, improvisationalists/guitarists who have always been an acquired tatse. ( though nonetheless an extremely important niche in the bigger pic that reaches across a lot of generes ). I guess Im praising and damning in some ways traditional loopers. Damning The traditionalists type traditionalist for not changing or evolving into areas that they arent usually comfortable with or usually seen as developing and thriving. ( All Based on the assumption that there is such a thang as a trad. looper) Trad. Looping often misses the danger, crudeness and visial stimulation you'd say ( & this is just a very crude examlple for discussions sake ) you could find at like a cock rock show or better yet a Prince show. Only a handful of loopers seem to be doing their thing where theres that Pop Culture element of danger, Funk, trash...sexiness and good ol' ego to it. Anyone and everyone can be moody and edgy but not many loopers aren't sexy looking or have star quality young looks and fresh sounds that are easilly recognizable and embraceable by the masses. Just an observation here ... & not my personal opinion in the slightest. God knows Im an ugly looking thing and my sounds tend to fall into the traditionalist category!! I was just thinking bout this over the weekend an awful lot. You always have to have a need ( a market ) or actively create a need around something or someone who is visable and viable beyond just the conceptual phase of expanding a concept amongst an already sold audience. Im always amazed when posters say gee its amazing what this stuff can do and isnt this and that and so on neat ..and what about this feature of the technology.. great , Huh ??? And it comes down to .. its a shame no one is into this. Most ( not all but most ) loop artists forsake the Pop Culture ego for the "higher ground" and never waver from a fixed perspective of performance and delivery which is often rigid & rightfully uncompromising in principle. I think that devotion often times gets misinterpreted as conceit or moreover its outward perception is one of a certain exclusivity which scares off a lot of folks who may be curious and willing to try or listen to a different perspective. The biggest disadvantage to looping is that Most loopers are still for the most part a largely white/male middle class/age thang that attracts mostly the same to all of its shows. Thats neither good or bad rather its a statement drawn from personal observations. Also Word of mouth wonât bring looping any further than where it currently stands today. Web Posting and Web Broadcasting in RA wont do it either unless its tied to or part of a focused artist and or manufacturerâs or Renowned Venue's Or better yet, a Well Financed Labels's marketing thrust. Organizing can help somewhat but in the end it seems you only have more people with you who are gonna be no better off than before... other than the fact that you are together and have each other as a psychologocal and social/creative means of support. It wouldnât hurt to have someone Mix it up with big or widely recognized people in key mags like musician, Gtr player, or just about anyone of those DnB mags you can get from a local book or record chain. Matthew Sweet endorses Roland products in their local user mag. Maybe a bi monthly or quarterly periodical which is either paper and or web based devoted to looping would help ( from a manufacturers perspective ) Talk to the Music Mag publishers of significance and see if you can get their backing for your affairs/shows in book shops or chains that carry their rags. All you want from the Mags is the Banner/logo and mention of you. Better yet organize a clinic on looping thru Manufactures & Publishers and or a combo of both. Last, Loopers need to reach out to artists that are perhaps on the surface appearing diametrically opposed to their being. Get together with the Tupacs of your community or the dj shadows or the Fresh Aire's or sonic youth's you can find. Step outside of yourself and you will always find a level of strenth and power that was never present in your work b4 (IMHO). From ???@??? Mon Apr 13 10:13:39 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 10:05:52 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOmfv-0005R8-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:05:43 -0700 Message-ID: <025201bd66fd$fc26c440$d1f0ffd0@default> From: "future perfect" To: Subject: Re: Getting People to gigs. ..and WHAT gigs..? Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 13:02:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Resent-Message-ID: <"IErWN.A.VeE.7SkM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4992 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:05:43 -0700 X-UIDL: 46b689c5c93a8e11853421172bb34dcd Forgive my rambles: Theres always a problem finding/keeping gigs for non-mainstream music. However, here in the Tampa Bay area, I tend to get hired just because I do not do standard coffeehouse music ("Brown Eyed Girl", etc...). Also it helps that I have a rather pretty girl who plays flute and sings, while I loop my gtr synth underneath. I have played quite a few 'corporate' coffeehouses, with the bright lights and tiled floors, with your standard yuppie clientele- some like it, most are indifferent, which is a lot worse than openly hating it, at least I get a reaction, and if I can get them to leave, even better. Then after its all over, I have to think, why would I play a place when I KNOW they either won't like it, or they don't care? Hell, in some of these places, Bob Dylan or Van Morrison himself could be playing, and it wouldn't matter. I'd rather sit home and play, at least I won't have to carry all the eqipment. Now, I don't put myself in that kind of position. Its useless to present something in what is obviously the wrong forum. I play privately owned coffeehouses with a great response, interest, etc. Also bookstores (private AND corporate) have been great places to play. Also, here in Florida, there are many small performance spaces that hold maybe 50-100 people. Quite a few art shows too. My advice is to not play a place that you KNOW is gonna suck. Usually, they don't pay all that well, at least not enough to get your next piece of looping gear. I always feel weird when it seem like I'm 'forcing' my art on people. Dave Eichenberger ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - art music - visit our website at: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:06:51 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 10:59:12 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOnVe-0003C2-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:59:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199804131753.KAA26452@ns2.vphos.net> From: "Cam" To: Subject: Mixman Studio / Groovemaker Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:50:48 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1085 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dPdBQ.A.1YC.CFlM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4993 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:59:10 -0700 X-UIDL: c1c693ad3c0db6dc397b468ef01f2687 Hi all... I just joined the list, so I'm sorry if this is material that's already been covered. What I would like to know is whether any of you have tried real time remixing/rearranging software like Groovemaker or Mixman Studio, and what you think about them. I downloaded the demos for both off of the net and they seem pretty cool... any thoughts? -- cam@mail.bulkley.net Visit the official Clockwork Website at: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/8890/index.html =;-) --|--< remove nospam from email address to reply From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:06:53 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 11:21:07 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOnqr-0005rz-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:21:05 -0700 From: NEMOGUIT Message-ID: <34d1af89.353255e0@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:13:50 EDT To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: so im not going to get rich playing my loops???? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 81 Resent-Message-ID: <"7sHdwB.A.rtE.UYlM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4994 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:21:05 -0700 X-UIDL: d7a34d73a12193a55794cf525ccf8345 who would have thunk that what we do, and that is a question in And of itself, is not quite mainstream. do we do music to drink coffee by? or hide me in a corner and ill keep it low enough so as not to bother the eaters, would hate to ruin someones salad!! i have always wondered, is it the fact that i am so simple that i can be quite happy listening to the loops of the birds and "peepers" and find enjoyment in this. is this simplicity the basis of my love of loops? i have no idea how many people belong to this list, perhaps it is growing by leaps and bounds or perhaps the how to unsubscribe question is some indication of where we are heading. i dont know. nothing i like more than banging a loop into my rang and sitting back and reading the posts of the day. what fun!! this is one of the only places where i find kindred spirits talking about an oh so small aspect of this thing we call music. perhaps i am the only one who likes my music, thAt is a good first step and it keeps me off the streets. i no longer look for external acceptance and i find that i grow more comfortable with that attitude every day. but that could be due to the fact that i am an over-middleaged, funky looking , qusi- intellectual white man!! one last point (thank god) i would really like to hear the LD"s c.ds or any music that you all are creating. ive had no luck getting info for the LD c.d.s and i dont know if any of you share tapes. i often feel like a blind man being told about a painting...............thanks............................michael From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:06:56 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 11:47:13 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOoG7-0001CX-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:47:11 -0700 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199804131841.LAA19226@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: so im not going to get rich playing my loops???? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:41:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <34d1af89.353255e0@aol.com> from "NEMOGUIT" at Apr 13, 98 02:13:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ODM-t.A.wf.xxlM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4995 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:47:11 -0700 X-UIDL: 38ab8d4778f28ea6873ccae2af160ffc If it helps any, I saw a good mix of age groups and ethnicities at Torn's Santa Monica looping gig. I myself am neither Caucasian nor middle-aged. :) A buddy of mine and myself would like to get our own looping band going in San Diego, but we're just in the talking stage. We'll probably do the coffee shop thing. We both have day jobs so making money off gigging is not a concern. Cheers, Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:15 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 16:01:26 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOsE5-0005eN-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:01:21 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: so im not going to get rich playing my loops???? Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:14:05 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd6710$5395b620$2f08bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"_56BFD.A.PrD.9YpM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5004 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:01:21 -0700 X-UIDL: 6503a2339b769b7c764d67950a038883 sage----- From: NEMOGUIT To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Date: Monday, April 13, 1998 2:18 PM Subject: so im not going to get rich playing my loops???? >who would have thunk that what we do, and that is a question in And of itself, >is not quite mainstream. do we do music to drink coffee by? or hide me in a >corner and ill keep it low enough so as not to bother the eaters, would hate >to ruin someones salad!! i have always wondered, is it the fact that i am so >simple that i can be quite happy listening to the loops of the birds and >"peepers" and find enjoyment in this. is this simplicity the basis of my love >of loops? >i have no idea how many people belong to this list, perhaps it is growing by >leaps and bounds or perhaps the how to unsubscribe question is some indication >of where we are heading. i dont know. >nothing i like more than banging a loop into my rang and sitting back and >reading the posts of the day. what fun!! >this is one of the only places where i find kindred spirits talking about an >oh so small aspect of this thing we call music. >perhaps i am the only one who likes my music, thAt is a good first step and it >keeps me off the streets. i no longer look for external acceptance and i find >that i grow more comfortable with that attitude every day. but that could be >due to the fact that i am an over-middleaged, funky looking , qusi- >intellectual white man!! >one last point (thank god) i would really like to hear the LD"s c.ds or any >music that you all are creating. ive had no luck getting info for the LD c.d.s >and i dont know if any of you share tapes. i often feel like a blind man being >told about a painting...............thanks............................michael > > From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:03 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 14:41:29 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOqyi-0003UO-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:41:24 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980413191702.009a5bd0@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 12:17:02 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: so im not going to get rich playing my loops???? Resent-Message-ID: <"j1tuAD.A.IvC.9VoM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4997 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:41:24 -0700 X-UIDL: 57aee341f02676071066bd8de51f6a30 At 02:13 PM 4/13/98 EDT, NEMOGUIT wrote: >who would have thunk that what we do, and that is a question in And of itself, >is not quite mainstream. do we do music to drink coffee by? or hide me in a >corner and ill keep it low enough so as not to bother the eaters, would hate >to ruin someones salad!! i have always wondered, is it the fact that i am so >simple that i can be quite happy listening to the loops of the birds and >"peepers" and find enjoyment in this. is this simplicity the basis of my love >of loops? I think we should be careful about assuming that "looping" is an actual genre of music. To me it is more of a technique that could be applied anywhere. (like say, "singing" or "drumming".) What you put into a loop and what you do with the loop will have a lot more to do with the sort of music you end up with, whether it be challenging high-art or danceable party music or bluegrass or whatever, than the loop itself. Certainly, using a real-time looping device will direct you in certain ways, but I imagine that someone like Chet Atkins will end up in a totally different place than someone like Jack Dangers. (both of whom are known to use real-time loopers and still retain their sizable audiences...Chet even won a grammy using his jamman...) *Some people* using real-time loopers are forging into new musical territories and making difficult music that drives people out of coffee shops. I think that has more to do with things like their actual music, their skill as entertainers, their relationship with a given audience, their choice of venue, and the newness/comfort issue than it does with the presence of a looping device somewhere in the process. A looper is just a tool used for particular techniques that you can apply as you like. Whether you succeed or not will have a lot more to do with you and your music than with the tool or the techniques..... kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact Systems Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:06:56 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 12:30:01 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOovR-0005W1-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 12:29:53 -0700 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sprintmail.com From: "COLLINSCLAN" To: Subject: Re: so im not going to get rich playing my loops. Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:18:49 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd6710$fd1b3bc0$2f08bfa8@0QHC6SIA> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"W75WL.A.ndE.FZmM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4996 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 12:29:53 -0700 X-UIDL: c447f83bd3920802ceb689e60227e483 Michael, I totally agree with what you're saying, your spirit has definately grown into it's own entity. And you're feeling at peace with the world... ain't nothing better than that bro. Have you tried listening to La Monte Young's music. Music of Justly Intonated drones. It's very beautiful, and he's been doing this kind of stuff since the fifties. Keep Looping, Jeff Collins collinsclan@sprintmail.com -----Original Message----- From: NEMOGUIT To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Date: Monday, April 13, 1998 2:18 PM Subject: so im not going to get rich playing my loops???? >who would have thunk that what we do, and that is a question in And of itself, >is not quite mainstream. do we do music to drink coffee by? or hide me in a >corner and ill keep it low enough so as not to bother the eaters, would hate >to ruin someones salad!! i have always wondered, is it the fact that i am so >simple that i can be quite happy listening to the loops of the birds and >"peepers" and find enjoyment in this. is this simplicity the basis of my love >of loops? >i have no idea how many people belong to this list, perhaps it is growing by >leaps and bounds or perhaps the how to unsubscribe question is some indication >of where we are heading. i dont know. >nothing i like more than banging a loop into my rang and sitting back and >reading the posts of the day. what fun!! >this is one of the only places where i find kindred spirits talking about an >oh so small aspect of this thing we call music. >perhaps i am the only one who likes my music, thAt is a good first step and it >keeps me off the streets. i no longer look for external acceptance and i find >that i grow more comfortable with that attitude every day. but that could be >due to the fact that i am an over-middleaged, funky looking , qusi- >intellectual white man!! >one last point (thank god) i would really like to hear the LD"s c.ds or any >music that you all are creating. ive had no luck getting info for the LD c.d.s >and i dont know if any of you share tapes. i often feel like a blind man being >told about a painting...............thanks............................michael > > From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:05 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 14:51:43 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOr8d-0004rm-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:51:39 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980413192834.00b00290@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 12:28:34 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Mixman Studio / Groovemaker Resent-Message-ID: <"VFQy6.A.ZfD.sboM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4998 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:51:39 -0700 X-UIDL: 66abec6c5978c551962cb0d3fed9535b At 10:50 AM 4/13/98 -0700, Cam wrote: >Hi all... >I just joined the list, so I'm sorry if this is material that's already >been covered. What I would like to know is whether any of you have tried >real time remixing/rearranging software like Groovemaker or Mixman Studio, >and what you think about them. I downloaded the demos for both off of the >net and they seem pretty cool... any thoughts? what's the website? I'd like to check those out. kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact Systems Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:05 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 14:52:53 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOr9k-00050z-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:52:48 -0700 Posted-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:44:32 +0200 (MET DST) Sender: rob@pi.net Message-ID: <35328743.7A4E77B8@pi.net> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:44:35 +0000 From: Robert van der Kamp X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.31 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Where to buy a Plex for international shipping? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"HZML-B.A.bvD.hdoM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/4999 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:52:48 -0700 X-UIDL: f78d35c321796e8e240aba33fb6d831c Hi, I wonder if any of you loopers can point me a retailer that sells the Plex for international shipping to the Netherlands. Thanks, Robert From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:09 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 15:09:44 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOrQ3-00075h-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:09:39 -0700 Message-Id: <199804132202.PAA20587@ns2.vphos.net> From: "Cam" To: Subject: Re: Mixman Studio / Groovemaker Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:04:47 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1085 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"eNC2lB.A.D1F.fuoM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5000 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:09:39 -0700 X-UIDL: a354717fdca8163b7dc143fb36240d3e > At 10:50 AM 4/13/98 -0700, Cam wrote: > >Hi all... > >I just joined the list, so I'm sorry if this is material that's already > >been covered. What I would like to know is whether any of you have tried > >real time remixing/rearranging software like Groovemaker or Mixman Studio, > >and what you think about them. I downloaded the demos for both off of the > >net and they seem pretty cool... any thoughts? > > what's the website? I'd like to check those out. > > kim Mixman Studio can be found at www.mixman.com and Groovemaker can be found at www.ikmultimedia.com. -- cam@mail.bulkley.net Visit the official Clockwork Website at: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/8890/index.html =;-) --|--< remove nospam from email address to reply From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:13 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 15:48:54 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOs1v-0003xY-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:48:47 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980413223555.00ac3988@pop.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@pop.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:35:55 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Mixman Studio / Groovemaker Resent-Message-ID: <"raI6cB.A.wdC.EQpM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5002 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:48:47 -0700 X-UIDL: e57cf2d537c10efcaa50ff830d67ef15 At 03:04 PM 4/13/98 -0700, Cam wrote: >> >Hi all... >> >I just joined the list, so I'm sorry if this is material that's already >> >been covered. What I would like to know is whether any of you have >tried >> >real time remixing/rearranging software like Groovemaker or Mixman >Studio, >> >and what you think about them. I downloaded the demos for both off of >the >> >net and they seem pretty cool... any thoughts? >> >> what's the website? I'd like to check those out. >> >> kim > >Mixman Studio can be found at www.mixman.com and Groovemaker can be found >at www.ikmultimedia.com. They both sort of look like toys. Not a bad thing: toys are fun. However, I couldn't shake the idea that this was a new form of karaoke.....:-) kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 Mpact Systems Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research http://www.chromatic.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:10 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 15:45:05 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOryD-0003PZ-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:44:57 -0700 From: TritoneDW Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:36:45 EDT To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Hackles have been raised! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 56 Resent-Message-ID: <"o3vNuB.A.bQC.lOpM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5001 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:44:57 -0700 X-UIDL: a52a5f65f39fa1953862ca96c6eef60e About this statement: << Looping still is home to the overly analytical and cerebral types of energy. Those folks do more damge than good to music in any category cause they reduce music to something less than the gifts it can bear. >> Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but are you saying that the intellect has no place in music of any type? Are you saying that the use of analytical and intellectual skills actually make music worse? It really irks me when people use terms like "analytical" and "academic" and "intellectual" in a perjorative way. Can music only "bear gifts" when it has been written to the lowest common denominator? Is Madonna better that Bach because she's less intellectual? I enjoy a lot of different kinds of music, from folk traditions to avant garde contemporary music, and I would never presume to insult anyone's music because it's too smart, or not smart enough. As an artist, I endeavor to bring my entire self to my work--my intellect, my heart, my soul. I don't think striving to make intelligent music takes away from my work in any way. In fact, I think it can only help. Having a brain doesn't preclude having a heart, does it? Am I the only one here who feels this way? Drew Wheeler From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:14 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 16:00:42 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOsDH-0005XS-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:00:31 -0700 Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD02CA090@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Yuppies and Loops, was Re: Looping show tonight, Friday in Po rtland, OR Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 17:45:14 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Resent-Message-ID: <"cy0ZqB.A.BlD.PYpM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5003 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:00:31 -0700 X-UIDL: cf5d5626de75d71d6e8a5e29a1c4e573 Well, I'm chiming in on this fairly late . . . I figure that if you're playing "non-mainstream" music, you pretty much need to figure that the majority of the population isn't going to "be ready for it." They may like it over time, or they may not. But if they haven't heard anything like what you're doing before, there's going to be a little bit of a "learning curve." (I don't mean this to sound self-congratulatory at all. I think that it's just common sense. I wasn't particulary ready for Circle the first time I heard 'em.) Some will "not understand" it - yet wish to investigate; some will just view it as an aberration. I personally think that too much modification of your vision to an "audience" is a potentially destructive and unhappy move . . . and it often doesn't get you what you think that you want anyway. That being said, I know that there is a little bit of a scene for experimental music in Portland and Albany (?). My suggestion would be to try and hook up with that scene and help expand and soldify it. Then maybe move up and down the West Coast to Seattle, San Francisco, LA, etc., as time and finances permit. Don't give up your day job. The hooking up with a scene tends to ghettoize, but I'm not really sure how else to deal with the fact of "unappreciative" mainstream audiences. At least you'd be "preaching to the converted" . . . or at least like minds. The way I figure it, we're basically in the guerilla war mode. No large scale operations for most of on this list. Go do what you do, melt back into the surrounding countryside. Enjoy what you do. Try to be happy doing it. On a (slightly) tangental train of thought. Has anyone out there read N. Slonimsky's "Lexicon of Musical Invective"? A sometimes scary but mostly hilarious compendium of critic's (mostly scathing) reviews of such slackers as Beethoven, Liszt, Stravinsky, etc. From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:15 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 16:04:52 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOsHJ-00066i-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:04:41 -0700 Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD02CA092@migarexch01.maritz.com> From: "Liebig, Steuart A." To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Hackles have been raised! Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 17:51:32 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Resent-Message-ID: <"my1iHC.A.dWE.6dpM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5005 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:04:41 -0700 X-UIDL: 36203f0810c62359956b2bae79d08627 > ---------- > From: TritoneDW > Reply To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Sent: Monday, April 13, 1998 15:45 > To: LiebigSA@maritz.com > Subject: Hackles have been raised! > > > Am I the only one here who feels this way? > > Drew Wheeler > > No. Ya need a brain and a heart. From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:24 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 18:32:40 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOuaV-00067X-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:32:39 -0700 Message-ID: <19980413225710.23269.rocketmail@web4.rocketmail.com> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:57:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rev. Doubt-Goat" Subject: More Yuppies and Loops To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"1LZOeD.A.gOF.zurM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5006 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:32:39 -0700 X-UIDL: b6bd350ee16ddfee8eb6df14d2260b18 93 I'd like to thank everyone who responded to my questions. Good stuff all! In my many years of amateur, semi-pro and pro performance experience, I've played with a *lot* of different bands, in a *lot* of different settings. My main experience has been, of course, that you try to play to the audience that you have, and that you should have *some* idea of what they will probably want. The interesting thing to me is, what do you do if you are faced with a "blind" situation, i.e. you don't know what the audience will be like? If you are looping, certainly an experimental venue will likely garner more listeners than a wedding gig will. Example: I used to play with a regionally very popular world-beat band in Kansas City, called BCR. We could pack 'em quite nicely at the clubs we would play. We were known to a large extent as a dance band (though we did play a lot of non-dance material). One time we played a wedding reception and could not get people to dance no matter what we did. And, even though we played at a low volume level (for a ten member band!), people kept leaving the room to go "talk". Now, the bride and groom, who hired us, danced and listened, and a few of their younger friends did as well, but all of the older people left the room! The point is, unless you always play it "safe" and only play where you *know* what you are doing will be accepted, occasionally you *will* run into a dud where you will drive people away instead of draw them in. Loopers, like most experimental musicians, are more likely to face this than a dance band will, (although as someone pointed out, if Michael Bolten were to play the Knitting Factory, would anyone stick around?) Since the amount of truely "experimental" venues will be limited, if a looper wants to share his/her music, they will need to try to play more "mainstream" venues. Now, since most "mainstream" venues will tend to cater to an audience with "mainstream" taste, what do you do? Here are a few idea off the top of my head. Keep in mind I would *never* suggest someone compromise their artistic integrity. 1. Loop covers! I do a weird loop cover of Gymnopedie #1 by Erik Satie, though perhaps a cover of Purple Haze might be a bigger hit. 2. Drums! Dance beats! Either Meester Drum Machine, or a drummer with a click or somesuch. 3. Cute girls/guys on stage! I'm doing a show soon with a dancer. Oughta be good. Stage charisma is something to not be overlooked. If you yourself don't have it, get someone up there with you who does! 4. Lights! Sets! Weird Costumes! Anyway, more later when I think of it! 93 Rev. DOubt-Goat _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:26 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 18:49:13 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOuqT-0007kK-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:49:09 -0700 Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:29:55 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199804140129.TAA06838@servidor.unam.mx> X-Authentication-Warning: servidor.unam.mx: [132.248.237.9] didn't use HELO protocol X-Sender: smaug@servidor.unam.mx X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: smaug@servidor.unam.mx Subject: Re: Hackles have been raised! Resent-Message-ID: <"bL2goB.A.j2G.9-rM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5007 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:49:09 -0700 X-UIDL: 6b8217ad8fae1d5828c09d68c5f14428 Less intelligent people use words as analytical,academic and intelectual as INSULTS,hey,I know how to read and write music,my parents took me to piano lessons wich I hated,then I took it own my own,(story sounds familiar?)making music for the sake of it is a labor from the soul,but having musical education helps you have things a LOT more organized most of the time,but it becomes a cerebral and souless thing when you«re jamming and you«re thinking:"I«m in c diminished in 3/4 and I can«t play this or that note..." a healthy balance is the key,because I«m irked as well when I hear dudes going like:"I don«t know how this chord«s name,don«t know wich key I am in,but it works!" Play your living soul AND your thinking brain outta the song! Smaug. At 06:36 PM 13/04/98 EDT, you wrote: >About this statement: > ><< Looping still is home to the overly analytical and cerebral types > of energy. Those folks do more damge than good to > music in any category cause they reduce music to > something less than the gifts it can bear. >> > >Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but are you saying that the intellect has no >place in music of any type? Are you saying that the use of analytical and >intellectual skills actually make music worse? > >It really irks me when people use terms like "analytical" and "academic" and >"intellectual" in a perjorative way. Can music only "bear gifts" when it has >been written to the lowest common denominator? Is Madonna better that Bach >because she's less intellectual? > >I enjoy a lot of different kinds of music, from folk traditions to avant garde >contemporary music, and I would never presume to insult anyone's music because >it's too smart, or not smart enough. As an artist, I endeavor to bring my >entire self to my work--my intellect, my heart, my soul. I don't think >striving to make intelligent music takes away from my work in any way. In >fact, I think it can only help. Having a brain doesn't preclude having a >heart, does it? > >Am I the only one here who feels this way? > >Drew Wheeler > > From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:44 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 21:15:37 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOx89-00057C-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:15:33 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980414015634.0097ba30@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: gls@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:56:34 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Grover Sheffield Subject: Re: EDP function problem Resent-Message-ID: <"zuGw-C.A.nUE.uHuM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5010 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:15:33 -0700 X-UIDL: 8089ac4d35492c304966612900147fb8 I've started working an EDP into a weekly restaurant gig, just noodling over diatonic chord changes with tension and release stuff. No one has stopped eating and walked out; there has even been some interest - "play that thing again"! Problem: I just replaced my 4 Mb chips with 16 Mb SIMMs. The EDP memory has indeed come up to 198 seconds (wonderful stuff, memory) HOWEVER... the unit NOW records in overdub mode even after I've hit the record switch to shut record off UNLESS I hit the overdub switch, then it doesn't overdub!!! Ididn't realize it until I started playing the gig last night, and it happened several times. Fortunantly, overdubbing sounds good, but WHAT HAVE I DONE? WHAT DO I NEED TO DO?? Calling Obie-wan.... TIA.... Grover From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:28 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 19:04:11 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOv4v-0001T2-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:04:05 -0700 X-Sender: bkettles@sfpo.macromedia.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000ED6F2.001424@mail.bl.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:58:31 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Buzz Kettles Subject: Re[2]: Fred Frith Resent-Message-ID: <"N1RNtC.A.s6.sMsM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5008 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:04:05 -0700 X-UIDL: 35b3ead970e59d0d737bfaab69ef4b30 This is available on CD - It also includes FF's selections from gtr solos 2 & 3 ... there WAS tape delay in places - later on (1980?) FF moved to a mixer (HH?) that had built in DDL echo ... -Buzz > I'm only really familiar with Fred's work from the period of Henry Cow > (for whom I failed the audition as bassist!) up to the Art Bears, but > if you ever see a copy of his GUITAR SOLOS (1974 - Caroline in the > UK), then invest immediately. > > Its some while since I've heard it, but I suspect at last part of it > was recorded with some form of tape delay device (the original sleeve > notes comment that most/all performances are live apart from one track > which had two notes edited out) - anyone know anything more on this? > > I recall he used various `prepared' guitar techniques - alligator > clips on the strings etc, but also had an additional pick-up attached > to the head stock of his guitar, which could `pick up' the sound of > the string's vibrations from `behind' the left hand fingers, achieving > a duet/harmonised effect (sort of). > > GUITAR SOLOS 2 (with G.F. Fitzgerald, Hans Reichel, and Derek Bailey) > had a few diagrams of recording techniques - placing speakers under a > piano's lid and taping the resonance etc. plus > > David From ???@??? Tue Apr 14 00:07:30 1998 >From kflint Mon Apr 13 19:38:09 1998 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.90 #1) for kflint@annihilist.com id 0yOvbs-0004IF-00; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:38:08 -0700 From: "Woehni" To: Subject: Lanois/Reeves Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 04:31:21 +0200 Message-ID: <01bd674d$85e71aa0$ed014382@pentium-200> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Resent-Message-ID: <"l1qRGC.A.hoD._ssM1"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/5009 Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:38:08 -0700 X-UIDL: c3a4a0dbc761b2f229f2a847247a0184 Hi friends , just got back from my easter holiday and have about 150 post to go through. While im sitting here cathcing up I have a funny experience I`d like to share. It happened in my familys cabin out in the country. We were all gathered there , uncles and aunts , grandparents and grandchildren. It was one of those magical moments when the family is gathered and everyone is happy. And when my family is gathered there is one thing you can count on: the old country/crooner Jim Reeves is not far away. So there we are , fireplace lit up , playing cards and having a good time. But when the second tape of Jim Reeves is reaching its end and my mom is hopping about looking for the third I figure its time to take action: I put on the sweetest smile I can muster and say , in my most angelic voice: "listen , guys , I brought a cd with some of the music I like......." As always , this line coming from me makes everybody get a really worried frown and the eyes start flickeering......."maybe later , dear" I hear from my otherwise so s