From ???@??? Thu Jan 01 12:45:13 1998
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Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 12:40:12 EST
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ENAT asks; where do I send the tape. Send your tape to:

John Peters
15  9th ave. N.W.
Kasson, Minnesota


I'll be sending out more information later.

Adios, and Happy New Year to all of you.  


From ???@??? Fri Jan 02 03:52:04 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan  1 13:13:11 1998
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Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 13:08:52 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: somebody using QT-MID-MOV to have loops
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At 11:17 AM +0000 12/31/97, BUYO-BUYO-IGOR wrote:
>Hi!
>I'm new to this list and writng from Japan.
>Using 68k-Macintosh and love to to run several QuickTime Movies at
>once to have different length of loops get mixed forever.

that's a cool idea. I never thought that. Although I've actually done
basically that many times in a non-musical way, for stress testing
concurrency situations  on media processors for pc's....

>I also love Microtuned music and when running MIDI files...there will
>be a bunch of bend-data flowin in to QT-musical-instruments.
>What happening when different bends get onto the same MIDI channel?
>Simply the same with a sound module receiving a lot of MIDI-ins?
>Or will there be virtual sound modules for each QT-mid-mov file?

I guess I don't know what a mac would do, but I'm sort of curious. Have you
tried yet? I would expect Quicktime to act like a single sound module, with
pitch bend affecting everything on a given channel. So I would expect the
two movies to interfere with each other. Maybe not though, I'm not really
sure.  let me know if you find out....

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com




From ???@??? Fri Jan 02 03:52:08 1998
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Ed Drake <ejmd@erols.com>
Subject: One For Sale
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This is a message I just received, I thought it was something someone here
might be interested in. I assume it is a JamMan for sale.
Happy New Year everyone !    Ed

>From: RBadillo <RBadillo@aol.com>
>Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 13:54:18 EST
>To: ejmd@erols.com
>Subject: One For Sale
>Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
>
>Hello Ed. I bought one a few months ago. I don't really use it much. It's
>mint. If you know anyone intrested in buying it I'd like to sell it for $350
>plus shipping. Theres no extra memory in it. Thanks.
>                                                                   Roberto
>Badillo
>                                                                    (954)
>428-1624
>




From ???@??? Fri Jan 02 15:19:04 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan  2 09:36:00 1998
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 12:28:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Adam Levin <alevin@ari.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Digitech RDS-8000 Time Machine spotted
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See http://www.wheatonmusic.com/digitech.htm


-Adam

---
       "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue,
       out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one 
                           becomes a Hearer."
                           - Chandrakirti



From ???@??? Sat Jan 03 02:37:37 1998
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From: Andrew <andrew@bocs.co.uk>
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Subject: delays that slowwww
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 09:52:43 -0000
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Fellow loopers,

Sorry to be banging on about gear again, but I must
know the answer...

What delay devices, obsolete or contemporary, can 
slow down the input signal ? I understand the Lex
PCM42 can, and the Echo Plus ( Digitech ? ) too, but
are there any others ?
I have a Whammy Pedal which can lower the pitch, but
the speed is the same. I'd like something that acts like
a varispeed has been turned down ( or up for Munchkin
dialogue )
I believe the slowing down of input to be a great thing
for these times, as we speed towards the millenium.
Hopefully the 'kids' will be 'hip' to it too.

Go raibh maith agat,  ('Thanks to you' in the Gaelic )





From ???@??? Sat Jan 03 18:13:08 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan  3 10:57:27 1998
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From: KILLINFO <KILLINFO@aol.com>
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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 13:50:43 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:  delays that slowwww
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In a message dated 1/3/98 2:26:56 AM, you wrote:

>Fellow loopers,
>
>Sorry to be banging on about gear again, but I must know the answer...
>
>What delay devices, obsolete or contemporary, can slow down the input signal?
>I understand the Lex PCM42 can, and the Echo Plus ( Digitech?) too, but are
>there any others? I have a Whammy Pedal which can lower the pitch, but
>the speed is the same. I'd like something that acts like a varispeed has been
>turned down (or up for Munchkin dialogue). I believe the slowing down of
input >to be a great thing for these times, as we speed towards the
millennium.
>Hopefully the 'kids' will be 'hip' to it too.
>
>Go raibh maith agat, ('Thanks to you' in the Gaelic)

Well, one device (out of many I suppose) that does what you describe is the
old Electro Harmonix 16-Second Digital Delay. I once had a couple of them that
I used as a stereo pair for all of my looping activities. When I finally
parted with them (for more modern rack gizmos) it was precisely this feature
that I missed most. The designers of all these newer gadgets don't seem to
appreciate the usefulness of this speed/pitch changing capability.

While the EH-16 is no longer being made (and still commands pretty high prices
used) it has been rumored to be slated by EH/Sovtek for reissue in the not-
too-distant future. I myself am looking forward to checking it out, when that
day comes, and perhaps buying one (or two) again. 

Don't get me wrong, I really like my Oberheim EDPs, but I do still miss that
one feature of the EH-16

T. Killian


From ???@??? Sat Jan 03 18:13:09 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan  3 11:06:05 1998
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In a message dated 1/3/98 5:27:59 AM, you wrote:

<<What delay devices, obsolete or contemporary, can 
slow down the input signal ? >>

Any of the Digitech Delay/Loopers (PDS or RDS 8000 for example) can slow
down/speed up a loop or delay thus changing the pitch of the looped/delayed
signal.


From ???@??? Sat Jan 03 18:13:16 1998
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RDS8000 can slow down the looping speeds or speed it up.  However, the pitch
changes as well, don't know if that is what you were looking for.   There are
devices that slow and keep the pitch the same for the sake of determining the
notes played on fast leads etc. etc.   I don't know the name of those devices,
but have seen them in the music catalogs. 



From ???@??? Sat Jan 03 18:13:20 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan  3 13:53:59 1998
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From: ANET <ANET@aol.com>
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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 16:45:56 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: 3rd CD Project Update 01/03/98 (Happy New Year all!)
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Well, 1998 is upon us, Happy New Year everyone,  I hope this will be a
productive year for all involved in these ongoing projects.  Can't wait to
hear the CDs that are in production now and those that will be completed this
year. 

For the 3rd CD project, the intent was to allow those who have recordings on
cassette tape (analog) to have the ability to make a CD.  If we don't have
enough
submissions, then we'll allow any DAT overflow to be included as well.

The cost will be $100.00, and will follow the guidelines of the 2nd Project
which will allow a set amount of CDs to be donated to this site, the producer
and the remaining to be divided evenly to the participants.  All future CD
pressings are given  
at cost to any of the participants.  This will allow you to market our CDs any
way you want.  

Submissions are being called for from now unitl March 31st.  There will be a 4
to 6 week mixdown with submission to the CD folks around June 1st.  Artwork
will be done by the members of the project or anyone else interested.  

This effort should not be confused with the first two projects.  The second
project is being produced by Matt Mcabe,  and I (John Peters) will produce the
third project.

Feel free to contact me via email at either ANET@AOL.COM or
acoustic_guitar@yahoo.com.  

My mailing address is:
15    9th  Ave. N.W.
Kasson, Minnesota 55944

Tapes will not be returned unless you enclose the return package and postage.
The property of the music will remain yours and the property of the CD will
remain
those who particpate with stipends to this site (Kim Flint). 

Have a good year and hope to hear from you soon.

The current list of participants is:

dpcoffin@aol.com
enat2123@aol.com
pdiem@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu
r_t_cummings@copuserve.com
stick@psn.net
  


From ???@??? Sat Jan 03 18:13:25 1998
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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 19:52:41 -0600
From: "Mikell D. Nelson" <mnelson@dmans.com>
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Organization: Boomerang Musical Products
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
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> What delay devices, obsolete or contemporary, can
> slow down the input signal ? I understand the Lex
> PCM42 can, and the Echo Plus ( Digitech ? ) too, but
> are there any others ?
> I have a Whammy Pedal which can lower the pitch, but
> the speed is the same. I'd like something that acts like
> a varispeed has been turned down ( or up for Munchkin dialogue )

Andrew,
  The Boomerang Phrase Sampler can slow a recorded sample to half speed
(it drops an octave), or speed it up to double speed (it raises the
pitch an octave). Let me know if you want any more info.

Mike Nelson

Boomerang Musical Products
PO Box 541595
Dallas, TX 75354-1595

Tel       800-530-4699 (outside USA, 214-340-6913)
Fax       214-343-1038
email     mnelson@dmans.com
web page  http://www.boomerangmusic.com


From ???@??? Sun Jan 04 19:21:10 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan  4 06:51:31 1998
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Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 14:43:48 +0100
From: "c.voit" <c.voit@vtx.ch>
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The first affordable DDelay Ibanez DD1000
could do 1024 ms delays, had a hold (loop closed) foot switch, a sin
modulation of  the delay time (pitch mod of the delays) and by varying
the delay time you could make the cool detune slowwww down trick
my first emotions in the world of  looping 8=)
can somebody remind me the year...

Claude



From ???@??? Sun Jan 04 19:21:12 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan  4 06:59:35 1998
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Message-ID: <34AFB0BA.B27@infobiogen.fr>
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 15:54:35 +0000
From: Malhomme Olivier <malhomme@infobiogen.fr>
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Subject: Re: Vortex...
References: <E0xoQlO-0003XV-00@ferret>
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A new question...
I tried recently to feed my vortex with two different inputs.
Surprisingly, one take precedence on the other (one of the inputs is
muted completely) but one of the outputs get muted too!
That is rather strange...
When fed with a mono signal, it is working absolutely perfectly. Very
very strange....

Olivier Malhomme


From ???@??? Sun Jan 04 19:21:45 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan  4 17:57:57 1998
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From: Marathon Records/Finley Sound Design <marathon@joshuanet.com>
Subject: Looper CD Update
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A quick little update on the Looper CD project.

We are not accepting any more contributors for this project.  The response
has been overwhelming.  If you feel left out, don't worry, there is plenty
of interest for future projects.  Stay tuned!!

Check this page to see who's involved:

http://www.joshuanet.com/marathon/Looper_CD.html

Matt

_______________________________
Matt McCabe
Finley Sound Design
Marathon Records
http://www.joshuanet.com/marathon/



      




From ???@??? Mon Jan 05 16:16:34 1998
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From: Takadimi <Takadimi@aol.com>
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 17:09:18 EST
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Subject: Lexicon Jam Man
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Hello. My name is Todd. I am a Drummer/Percussionist looking for a Jam Man. If
you have a buy/sell reference page or can get me in touch with someone who has
one, I would be grateful. Ive already tried Harmony Central with no luck.
Thanks for your time.
									
Email  Takadimi@aol.com


From ???@??? Mon Jan 05 16:16:39 1998
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:30:29 EST
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Subject: NJ Stick/Loop gigs
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"Explorations in Time and Space" - An evening of Soundscapes and
Imporovisations w/ Paul Mimlitsch (Chapman Stick¨/Loops) and J. Jody Janetta
(Percussion/Treated Voice).
Sat. Jan. 10th. - Border's Books and Music, Mays Landing 407 - 1960 (w/Michael
Robbins-violin as "Adelante" - Free jazz?fusion)
Fri. Jan. 8:00pm - Down to Earth Coffeehouse Mt. Holly 265-9135 (w/Bill
Forcier-Synthesizers)
Sat. Jan. 17th. - 8:00pm - Celestial Cafe, Medford 596 - 7098	
Sat. Jan. 24th. 8:00pm - Cafe Seattle, Haddonfield 354 - 2220
Sat. Jan. 31st 8:00pm - A.J. Muggas Uncommon Grounds, Merchantville 317 - 0199
(w/Bill Forcier - Synthesizers)
Sat. Feb. 14th. 8:00pm - Celestial Cafe, Medford 596 - 7098




From ???@??? Mon Jan 05 22:25:41 1998
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:12:14 EST
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Subject: Re:  NJ Stick/Loop gigs
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Which state is the Medford in your Celestial Cafe in?


From ???@??? Mon Jan 05 22:25:41 1998
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Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 22:14:39 -0500
From: mark sottilaro <msottila@mailbox.syr.edu>
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Hey there Bob,

Sorry to bother you, but a while ago you wrote:
 

>  
>
> With MIDI clock IN disabled, the sequencer and JamMan can be connected
>
> as shown above but JamMan will ignore the MIDI clocks being output by
> the sequencer and still recognize all of the control commands. With
> this
> setup the operator simply TAPs in the first loop and a whole series of
>
> complex commands can be programmed into the sequencer with no
> additional
> operator intervention except to play their perspective instrument.
>  

I have a question.  Is the opposite possible?  Can I make my JamMan
ignore program change commands while still synching to a MIDI clock?

Anyway, thanks for any help you can give me.  By the way, I FINALLY got
the chance to install the "Special 2 ROM" that you sent me many months
ago.  Tomorrow I intend to do the proper mods on my footswitchs, so you
may be asked to come to the rescue with info soon.  We'll see...

Also, isn't there anyone over there at Lexicon that you can kick in the
butt and have them start making those crazy delays again?  I can't
imagine that a processor that fetches full retail and beyond USED can't
be profitable for them to make.  Kooky!

Thanks,  
-- --
Mark
 

@
¿??? IAMNOTHERE
c



From ???@??? Mon Jan 05 22:25:45 1998
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From: "Julia & Dave" <jndk@colba.net>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Robert Fripp ALONE
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:41:12 -0500
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Hi,

Robert Fripp is coming to Montreal

Robert Fripp ALONE
Monday January 19th 8:30 pm
Club Soda (514) 270-7848 (Montreal)
Tickets available through Admission Ticket Outlets (514) 790-1245

I got mine today and there are still plenty left according to 
the teller.

Hope this info can be of use to Loopers in the area...

Cheers,


D 4 V 1 D    K R 1 5 T 1 4 N

jndk@colba.net 
http://www.total.net/~alien8/Kristian.html
http://www.interlog.com/~stained/feedback/othprint/kristian.htm




From ???@??? Mon Jan 05 22:25:46 1998
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From: Salazzar2 <Salazzar2@aol.com>
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:49:43 EST
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Subject: Re: Robert Fripp ALONE
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Greetings all....I saw Mr. Fripp in Philadelphia early in December and I must
say that it is a must see. After approximately an hour and a half of crafting
the soundscapes, he had a question and answer period with the audience. He was
in rare form that night....very interesting and funny man....enjoy the show,
if you go!!!!


From ???@??? Tue Jan 06 10:20:19 1998
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In a message dated 1/5/98 10:43:26 PM, you wrote:

<<Which state is the Medford in your Celestial Cafe in?

>>

New Jersey


From ???@??? Tue Jan 06 12:55:00 1998
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Subject: Time machine question
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 98 14:18:03 -0000
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I just received a Time Machine (like, two minutes ago), and I was looking 
at the back jacks.  They're quarter-inch mono jacks which protrude about 
3/8" beyond the chassis, and they're threaded on the outside.  I'd prefer 
that there were those big plastic nuts threaded on the jacks so that the 
strain relief is transferred to the metal chassis, not the pc board 
inside.  A question to the other TM owners--do your jacks have nuts?

Travis Hartnett


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By the way, whilst composing my previous message and this one, I've been listening to Fripp and Eno's "No Pussyfooting" first time in a long time.  This is the type of droning meditative stuff that I'd like to emulate.



From ???@??? Tue Jan 06 10:20:50 1998
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Thanx for all of the input regarding the digitech time machine.  I bought a zoom 508 but am not sure that I like the scrolling interface.  Knobs may be the way to go.

I didn't buy an expression pedal and so the TAP and HOLD features only work in the edit mode.  The manual is not very clear regarding the use of these functions without the foot control.  To date I've been able to use the hold mode which allows me to jam over a repeated portion of material but I can't figure out how to establish the length of the loop that is held.  I seem to get just a fragment of the overall delayed material.  Maybe a half second piece of a four second delay.  TAP has completely eluded me.

I know this stuff is pretty basic to most of you but I would appreciate any direction possible.  I have until next week to return the device for a full refund and may still do that and opt for the time machine.

I'd like to get into a more detailed discussion of the zoom with someone knowledgable if anyone has the time.  That could be done seperate from this list to avoid boring others.




From ???@??? Tue Jan 06 10:20:55 1998
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From: Steven Dubofsky <skullsaw@gti.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: ZOOM 508
In-Reply-To: <199801061600.LAA00096@mailnet.malcolmpirnie.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.93.980106113521.7046B-100000@apollo.gti.net>
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On Tue, 6 Jan 1998 lwordsman@pirnie.com wrote:

> 
> Thanx for all of the input regarding the digitech time machine.  I bought a zoom 508 but am not sure that I like the scrolling interface.  Knobs may be the way to go.
> 
> I didn't buy an expression pedal and so the TAP and HOLD features only work in the edit mode.  The manual is not very clear regarding the use of these functions without the foot control.  To date I've been able to use the hold mode which allows me to jam over a repeated portion of material but I can't figure out how to establish the length of the loop that is held.  I seem to get just a fragment of the overall delayed material.  Maybe a half second piece of a four second delay.  TAP has completely eluded me.
> 
> I know this stuff is pretty basic to most of you but I would appreciate any direction possible.  I have until next week to return the device for a full refund and may still do that and opt for the time machine.
> 
> I'd like to get into a more detailed discussion of the zoom with someone knowledgable if anyone has the time.  That could be done seperate from this list to avoid boring others.

tap and hold are available without the footswitch, you tap both pedals at
the same time. Press to start the loop, then again to end the loop.

                    All rights reserved. No part of
                     skullsaw may be reproduced in
                    any form without written consent
                            from skullsaw


                         www.gti.net/skullsaw



From ???@??? Tue Jan 06 12:54:52 1998
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Damn, we were hoping it was just down the road.


From ???@??? Tue Jan 06 10:51:04 1998
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<html><HTML>
<FONT FACE="Book Antiqua"><FONT SIZE=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp; 1wordsman wrote:&nbsp;
"Thanx for all of the input regarding the digitech time machine.&nbsp;
I bought a zoom 508 ..."</FONT></FONT><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-1>There's always a beginning...&nbsp;&nbsp; So you bought
a zoom.&nbsp; Although they sell like mad and get alot of talk, I've always
loathed scrolling "data-entry" user interfaces....&nbsp;&nbsp; I hate to
say it, but to me, knobs are essential (like ni***les, they must be twiddled!!!).&nbsp;
And for all intensive purposes, the time machine sounds better than the
zoom products (*subjective/excuse me).&nbsp; I could try and discuss the
Zoom stuff with you sometime, but I'll only end up reinforcing this message.....
FOR THE MONEY, YOU CAN'T GO WRONG WITH A DIGITECH TIME MACHINE....ESPECIALLY
ONE OF THE MODELS WITH 6 OR 7 SECONDS.&nbsp; With a Zoom, the user is forced
to work within a series of pre-sets and you can only use one effect at
a time.&nbsp; BORING.&nbsp;&nbsp; The TIME Machine gives you chorus/flanging/echo/doubling/arm-trigger.....
direct out/Mix out/phase out (stereo)/arm-trigger foot control via momentary
foot-switch... Foot control over delay time (which also effects chorusing
and flanging) via a volume pedal... Foot control over repeat-Hold (momentary
foot switch, again!)...</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>I CAN GO ON.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Regardless, I plug into my friends
time machine and I'm stuck there for hours... and I have fun...rather than
frustration.</FONT><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-1>Peace to all and have a great day!</FONT></HTML>

</html>

From ???@??? Wed Jan 07 01:14:09 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan  6 14:34:13 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:21:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Adam Levin <alevin@ari.net>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Time machine question
In-Reply-To: <199801062018.MAA09790@scv3.apple.com>
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On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, T.W. Hartnett wrote:

> A question to the other TM owners--do your jacks have nuts?

That's a rather personal question, but yes, they do.

-Adam

---
       "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue,
       out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one 
                           becomes a Hearer."
                           - Chandrakirti



From ???@??? Wed Jan 07 01:14:20 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan  6 15:44:47 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:08:19 +0000
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From: babs <babs@d1-2517d.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Voice Vandal
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With all the talk of Time Machines and delays with pitch controls , 
I thought some of you may be interested in this little gizmo. Maplin
electronics in the UK sell an electronics kit called a 'Voice Vandal'.
It has echo,delay,chopping level,digital distorsion and speed/pitch
adjustment. It was designed for getting weird dalek-like effects I
think. A sort of NIN-in-a-box , I haven't got one yet , so I can't say
whether it's electronic earcandy or a sonic Turkey... but if you're
interested you may find some info on their website. www.maplin.co.uk


Babs


From ???@??? Wed Jan 07 01:14:24 1998
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In a message dated 1/6/98 3:13:20 PM, you wrote:

<<Damn, we were hoping it was just down the road.
>>

Down the road from where?


From ???@??? Wed Jan 07 01:14:29 1998
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From: Clark Battle <ClarkB@bsquare.com>
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To: "'loopers-delight@annihilist.com'" <loopers-delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: How to tell the difference
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:01:50 -0800
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Is there a way to tell the difference between old Echoplexi and new
Echoplexi with the latest version of the Loop software?  I have located
one but dont know what version it is.  Can you tell by the serial number
or something?

Clark Battle


From ???@??? Wed Jan 07 01:14:32 1998
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To: "battleaxe@worldnet.att.net" <battleaxe@worldnet.att.net>,
        "'loopers-delight@annihilist.com'" <loopers-delight@annihilist.com>
From: Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com>
Subject: Re: How to tell the difference
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Any Echoplex DP can have either version of software, as the hardware hasn't
significantly changed in that regard. so if you get one with an old version
of Loop installed, you can certainly get it upgraded.

You can tell which software version is installed right at power up, when it
displays the version. The older software versions are very pragmatic and get
right to the point, displaying something like "LD3.3.2" before showing the
loop time. The new version is a bit more dramatic in proclaiming it's
identity, scrolling "Loop3" across the display 3 times before displaying the
version, which is currently 5.0.

And it should be pretty clear whether it's a really old echoplex or not, as
those ones use tape. The really, really old ones are also green and use
tubes. ;-)

kim

At 04:01 PM 1/6/98 -0800, Clark Battle wrote:
>Is there a way to tell the difference between old Echoplexi and new
>Echoplexi with the latest version of the Loop software?  I have located
>one but dont know what version it is.  Can you tell by the serial number
>or something?
>
>Clark Battle
>
>
>
_______________________________________________________
Kim Flint			408-752-9284
Mpact Systems Engineering	kflint@chromatic.com
Chromatic Research		http://www.chromatic.com



From ???@??? Wed Jan 07 01:14:31 1998
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:20:35 EST
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Ashland, Oregon...home of the LoOpDoctOrs.


From ???@??? Wed Jan 07 12:50:17 1998
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Message-Id: <199801071709.JAA29780@scv1.apple.com>
Subject: Time Machine arcana
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 98 11:09:19 -0000
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From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
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A couple of Time Machine tidbits:

¥ If you ever open the thing up, DO NOT unscrew any of the screws on the bottom of the unit.  The two on one side are the transformer mounts, and the other two support the PCB.  Loosen these, and little spacing nuts and stuff start rattling around the inside.  There are LOTS of screws on the outside, but you only need to undo the front-panel torque screws and the left, right and top panel screws.  You must take off the top--the board will not slide straight out the front, and be careful with the power supply wire on the back.

¥ I found out that Digitech has online tech support, and I received a response within twenty minutes, although they advertise a 48 hour turnaround.  According to them, if the Time Machine goes down, they have a $55 flat fee for out of warranty repairs (I don't know which products this applies to).

¥ I asked about the jack nuts on the back, and this is what they said:

"I know that there were a few years of production on those units when
we did not put nuts on those jacks. The jacks were hard soldered to the
PCB, and the PCB fit flush against the back pannel inside the unit. This
made the engineers feel that it would be strong enough to withstand the
strain from cables being connected."

For my piece of mind, I'm going to thread nuts on the jacks, just to be sure.

Kudos to Digitech!

Travis Hartnett


From ???@??? Wed Jan 07 12:50:25 1998
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Subject: Re: Thanks Travis!
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>>¥ If you ever open the thing up...
>
>Why did you open yours in the first place?  Not that I've a fear of the
>'pandora effect', I just don't know enough about the unit to feel good about
>opening it up.  An Electro-Harmonix Small Stone, MAYBE, but I doubt it. :)
>

I bought it used, and there was already something rattling around loose inside, and I wanted to see if I could squirt some contact cleaner into the feedback pot (it makes a horrible loud burst of white noise if it's rotated in the lower 25% of its range, which I never use, but I thought I'd try and clean it anyway).  In the course of hunting down the intial loose part, I mistakenly loosened the bottom screws, and then had to dig my way out of that pit.

>>¥ I found out that Digitech has online tech support...
>
>What's their number?

You can email them using the form from their webpage at:

http://www.digitech.com/mailroom/index.htm

Travis


From ???@??? Wed Jan 07 12:49:46 1998
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Tom Lambrecht <hideo@concentric.net>
Subject: Re:nutty Time machine question
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At 02:18 PM 1/6/98 -0000, you wrote:
>I just received a Time Machine (like, two minutes ago), and I was looking 
>at the back jacks.  They're quarter-inch mono jacks which protrude about 
>3/8" beyond the chassis, and they're threaded on the outside.  I'd prefer 
>that there were those big plastic nuts threaded on the jacks so that the 
>strain relief is transferred to the metal chassis, not the pc board 
>inside.  A question to the other TM owners--do your jacks have nuts?
>
>Travis Hartnett
>
>
>

mine also has black plastic nuts threaded on and I threaded one on the 1/4"
input jack on my Jamman so I know at least one place where you could get
replacements

congrats on the Time machine acquisition--the more I play with my RDS 8000,
the more I like it.

drone on~~~~~Tom
Tom Lambrecht  hideo@concentric.net



From ???@??? Wed Jan 07 12:49:45 1998
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Tom Lambrecht <hideo@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: fresh Vortex sightings
Resent-Message-ID: <"asWefC.A.FnG.7o4s0"@ferret>
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When you can't sleep in the Stygian depthes of 3 AM, you troll te Web for
goodies--both of htese were posted in hte last 12 hours


Vortex, hardly used  best offer over $125

gorgon@telerama.lm.com




Two Vortexes   $ 275 ea.        Sound Advice   207.883.7426


bleen on~~~~~Tom
Tom Lambrecht  hideo@concentric.net



From ???@??? Wed Jan 07 12:50:04 1998
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From: "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@earthlight.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Time machine question
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Interesting.  No nuts on the 7.6 I've got...


>I just received a Time Machine (like, two minutes ago), and I was looking 
>at the back jacks.  They're quarter-inch mono jacks which protrude about 
>3/8" beyond the chassis, and they're threaded on the outside.  I'd prefer 
>that there were those big plastic nuts threaded on the jacks so that the 
>strain relief is transferred to the metal chassis, not the pc board 
>inside.  A question to the other TM owners--do your jacks have nuts?
>
>Travis Hartnett
>
>



From ???@??? Wed Jan 07 12:50:10 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan  7 08:59:32 1998
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From: Emmanuel Angel <angel2@dolphin.upenn.edu>
Message-Id: <199801071651.LAA12547@dolphin.upenn.edu>
Subject: Vortex for sale
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For sale:

	1 Lexicon Vortex:  Brand new in box.  Never used!

	Price: best offer over $300 plus shipping.

	reply to E. Angel:   angel2@dolphin.upenn.edu


From ???@??? Wed Jan 07 12:50:24 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan  7 10:29:53 1998
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...for giving us the benefit of your experience, which sounds like something
I'm glad I've not had to do.

>¥ If you ever open the thing up...

Why did you open yours in the first place?  Not that I've a fear of the
'pandora effect', I just don't know enough about the unit to feel good about
opening it up.  An Electro-Harmonix Small Stone, MAYBE, but I doubt it. :)

>¥ I found out that Digitech has online tech support...

What's their number?

>For my piece of mind, I'm going to thread nuts on the jacks, just to be
sure.


Ditto here.  I recently took The Rig up to Reno for a weekend jamming with
an old friend, and, in the absence of a proper shipping box for the TM and
my QuadraVerb, packaged them both securely in the center of a suitcase that
allowed enough room on all sides for good cushioning.  Wipe the look of
appalled shock off yer faces, folks. :)  But it worked, in addition to the
standard-issue Fender case for Cthulhu, my Strat.  Given the inflated prices
of most decent crates, I'm going to design my own that doubles as a rack
mount.

Is it just me, or is business these days rife with hotshots who operate on
an extreme use of Supply/Demand, to the extent that sectors exist using
artificial price levelling?  For a long time this was prevalent with synths,
esp. drum machines; then it was digital keyboards, then MIDI
software/hardware, and so on.. Every time something like the above items
produced a diminishing profit margin, some other product becomes more
inflated.  Why is it the cost of a good crate, then, has not diminished?  I
mean, some of them cost more than the gear I'd put it it.

Perhaps there haven't been enough technological developments in that
business to lower the costs of production/purchase.  But on the other hand,
perhaps the Case business has had a huge profit margin from the beginning.
Unless artificially controlled as in the case of monopolies, this situation
should almost shout for others to produce a competitively-priced quality
product.  So why haven't we seen this?

How bout that folks?  Whatta you think?

Stephen Goodman           * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios
EarthLight Productions     * Get the Loop Of The Week Free!



From ???@??? Wed Jan 07 23:03:53 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan  7 13:38:57 1998
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From: lwordsman@pirnie.com
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 16:31:31 -0500
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To: Loopers-delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Noisy Knobs
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Travis Hartnett Wrote:

" I wanted to see if I could squirt some contact cleaner into the feedback pot (it makes a horrible loud burst of white noise if it's rotated in the lower 25% of its range. "

My amp makes terrible noise when I turn the knobs and I was unaware of any product that could help reduce that noise.  Please tell me more.



From ???@??? Wed Jan 07 23:03:58 1998
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From: Jonathan Brainin <jbrainin@interactive.net>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Philadelphia Loop Show 1998
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:55:53 -0500
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Hey there!  What's happening?  Is there any news about Loopapalooza
'98 yet?  I still am hoping to be a part of this year's show.  Is there 
anything you need me to do in the interim?

Jonathan Brainin
jbrainin@interactive.net



On Friday, October 31, 1997 11:42 AM, JSPEEr [SMTP:jspeer@haverford.edu] wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> So I'd like to start thinking about putting another Loop Show on, most
> likely in March or April again of next year.  I am not entirely sure what
> the goal of this follow-up show should be;  Perhaps to get entirely
> different artists than last year, comes immediately to mind.  But we had
> such a strong line-up last year, and I'm not deeply philosophically opposed
> to repeat performances, particularly since this is a full year later.
> 
> Anybody interested in this show, in participating, in attending, in making
> suggestions, questions, whatever, please email me.  I'm sure I will
> gradually get a sense of what the show will be like once I get some more
> input.
> 
> Looking forward to hearing from you!
> 
> Jim Speer
> 
> 



From ???@??? Wed Jan 07 23:05:29 1998
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Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 23:24:08 -0500
From: mark sottilaro <msottila@mailbox.syr.edu>
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> > So I'd like to start thinking about putting another Loop Show on,
> most
> > likely in March or April again of next year.  I am not entirely sure
> what
> > the goal of this follow-up show should be;  Perhaps to get entirely
> > different artists than last year, comes immediately to mind.  But we
> had
> > such a strong line-up last year, and I'm not deeply philosophically
> opposed
> > to repeat performances, particularly since this is a full year
> later.
> >
> > Anybody interested in this show, in participating, in attending, in
> making
> > suggestions, questions, whatever, please email me.  I'm sure I will
> > gradually get a sense of what the show will be like once I get some
> more
> > input.
> >
> > Looking forward to hearing from you!
> >
> > Jim Speer
> >
> >

Hey,

I would love to participate in a Looper show.  I perform solo and with a
group that uses multipal JamMen.  If you need a demo tape, one can be
supplied.  Let me know.  

-- --
Mark
 

@
¿??? IAMNOTHERE
c



From ???@??? Wed Jan 07 23:50:41 1998
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Reply-To: "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@earthlight.net>
From: "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@earthlight.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Are there...
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 23:25:18 -0800
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..any of us on this list in Atlanta?  My sister's family lives there and it
seems to have an interesting if undeveloped arts community...  I was
wondering about the idea of perhaps banging our instruments together -
perhaps even publicly, the next time I go out there to visit (sometime in
the next 4-5 months).

Kindly reply to me at sgoodman@earthlight.net

Stephen Goodman       * Download The Loop Of The Week and more!
EarthLight Studios         * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------



From ???@??? Fri Jan 09 00:38:39 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan  8 10:51:07 1998
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From: "Hogan, Greg  (Exchange)" <ghogan@lexicon.com>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: MPX R1
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:32:37 -0500
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	Awhile back Kim had asked about the MPX R1:"- Can the
footswitches be programmed to act in a momentary or toggle function?
Momentary meaning you press the switch and one midi string is sent, when
you let go of the switch, a second midi string is sent. Toggle meaning
the first time I press a given switch, it sends one string of midi
commands, the second time I press it it sends a second string. The most
obvious example of momentary is playing notes or chords on a synth,
where press down on the switch sends the note-on and releasing it sends
the note off. Toggle is useful for a stomp-box like approach, where you
might have one effect assigned to a given switch. So you press that
switch and the effect comes on, press again and it turns off. The PMC-10
and Roctron pedals can do these and I find it extremely useful.

> - Does it have midi in? If so, can it do things like midi merge, midi
> filtering, etc.?
> 
> - Can you send all possible midi commands? For example, I want to send
> note-on, note-off to synths and samplers. I'd also like to send
> start-song
> and stop-song messages to sequencers. And for any commands not
> explicitly available, I'd like to be able to send sysex, or even just
> directly type in
> the hex for the midi command. (for example, I'm a long way from
> needing
> this, but eventually I would like to use Midi Show Control for
> lighting and
> such. If I could spontaneously set the lighting while playing, that
> would
> be very cool. I wouldn't expect this in a midi pedal, but if I could
> type
> in the hex for it myself that would be fine.) Again, I can do this
> stuff
> with the PMC-10. But like Miko, if the pmc starts acting up I'd like
> to
> know what else I can get."
> 
> - how many patches/banks/sets etc can it hold?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> kim
	Sorry for the delay in responding to this.  There is no toggling
of different functions from one switch.

	It will send all MIDI commands except for Note On and Note Off.

	There is no SYSEX programming.

	There is a MIDI in for merging data but no filtering.

	There are 100 setups.

	Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is
anything that I can do for you.

	Best regards,

	Greg Hogan
	Lexicon Customer Service
	Phone +781-280-0372
	FAX +781-280-0499
	email: ghogan@lexicon.com


From ???@??? Fri Jan 09 00:38:56 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan  8 12:29:12 1998
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 98 13:39:19 CST
From: "Brian L Jackson" <brijackson@dttus.com>
Message-Id: <9800088842.AA884296727@ccbbn5.dttus.com>
To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Upgraded JAMMAN For Sale$$
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     Hi Loopers!
     
     Lexicon JAMMAN For Sale w/upgraded memory, manual, (2) footswitches
     
     will take best offer
     
     email direct to "brijackson@dttus.com"
     
     Cheers
     
     Brian



From ???@??? Fri Jan 09 00:38:57 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan  8 12:35:21 1998
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From: ENAT21213 <ENAT21213@aol.com>
Message-ID: <38e8bc7a.34b53599@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:22:48 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Philadelphia Loop Show 1998
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Hello Jim Speer,
I play with a project called Electric Bird Noise.We play cinematic loop and
layered intrumental guitar music.We are very interested in playing your loop
show in Philadelphia.Please send us more information.Were can we send a promo
pack?
Thank you 
Brian McKenzie
ENAT21213@aol.com 

In a message dated 98-01-07 17:25:08 EST, you write:

<< So I'd like to start thinking about putting another Loop Show on, most
 > likely in March or April again of next year.  I am not entirely sure what
 > the goal of this follow-up show should be;  Perhaps to get entirely
 > different artists than last year, comes immediately to mind.  But we had
 > such a strong line-up last year, and I'm not deeply philosophically opposed
 > to repeat performances, particularly since this is a full year later.
 > 
 > Anybody interested in this show, in participating, in attending, in making
 > suggestions, questions, whatever, please email me.  I'm sure I will
 > gradually get a sense of what the show will be like once I get some more
 > input.
 > 
 > Looking forward to hearing from you!
  
 > Jim Speer



From ???@??? Fri Jan 09 00:39:14 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan  8 16:16:31 1998
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 18:08:39 -0600
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Tom Spaulding <tspauldi@gibson.com>
Subject: What's that burning smell...
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EDP fans-

After several less than accurate guesses about the actual shipment dates of
e-prom upgrades, we humbly announce that we began shipping yesterday. We
have a list of who has already paid and are waiting, but in case you want
to re-confirm your order, or just feel like yelling at us for taking so
long, please e-mail pmurphy@gibson.com. 

Our trained personnel are standing by...

Tom





From ???@??? Fri Jan 09 00:40:10 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan  8 18:12:57 1998
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:55:55 -0400
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Ph.D.)
Subject: Re: Philadelphia Loop Show 1998
Resent-Message-ID: <"hwQodB.A.IUE.XUYt0"@ferret>
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As you know Jim, Accidents will Happen would also be interested.


>Hello Jim Speer,
>I play with a project called Electric Bird Noise.We play cinematic loop and
>layered intrumental guitar music.We are very interested in playing your loop
>show in Philadelphia.Please send us more information.Were can we send a promo
>pack?
>Thank you
>Brian McKenzie
>ENAT21213@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 98-01-07 17:25:08 EST, you write:
>
><< So I'd like to start thinking about putting another Loop Show on, most
> > likely in March or April again of next year.  I am not entirely sure what
> > the goal of this follow-up show should be;  Perhaps to get entirely
> > different artists than last year, comes immediately to mind.  But we had
> > such a strong line-up last year, and I'm not deeply philosophically opposed
> > to repeat performances, particularly since this is a full year later.
> >
> > Anybody interested in this show, in participating, in attending, in making
> > suggestions, questions, whatever, please email me.  I'm sure I will
> > gradually get a sense of what the show will be like once I get some more
> > input.
> >
> > Looking forward to hearing from you!
>
> > Jim Speer

Paul Poplawski, Ph.D.
email = ppoplawski@state.de.us  or  paulpop@ssnet.com
phone service = 302/737-4491
weekday office = 302/577-4980




From ???@??? Fri Jan 09 00:40:23 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan  8 22:06:44 1998
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From: GILGOOD <GILGOOD@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3717174f.34b5bc0c@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:56:26 EST
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Subject: Re:  Re: Philadelphia Loop Show 1998
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when and where is this show, again.


From ???@??? Fri Jan 09 00:40:27 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan  8 22:32:00 1998
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From: Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Message-Id: <199801090624.WAA01428@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Subject: Gravikords, Whirlies, & Pyrophones
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:24:43 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <3717174f.34b5bc0c@aol.com> from "GILGOOD" at Jan 9, 98 00:56:26 am
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I recently found a book/CD published by Ellipsis Arts entitled
Gravikords, Whirlies, & Pyrophones: Experimental Musical Instruments.
Since most of you folks play instruments that are themselves still
close to the cutting edge (Stick, loopers, Ztars, etc.) I thought I'd
write a bit about some of the instruments covered in the book.

Daxophone - Invented by innovative guitar designer/musician Hans Reichel,
this consists of a wooden "tongue" and the Dax, a wooden chunk with both
the top and bottom slightly curved for a convex shape with one side fretted.
The Daxophone is played by bowing the tongue while pressing the Dax against
it.  The book shows photos of 12 different Daxophone tongues.  I echo
here comments posted a while back about this instrument - it has a 
remarkably vocal quality that can at one instant sound like a person and
at aonther sound like an animal.

Waterphone - Invented by Richard Waters (how appropriate!). It looks like
a stainless steel vase with metal rods attached to the bottom section 
protruding upward.  It can be played with a bow, struck, rubbed with a mallet,
etc. The sound comes from the interaction of the ringing metal with the
water inside of the instrument.

Pneumaphone - Inventor: Godefried-Willem Raes. This instrument consists
of one or more inflatable cushions, home-made wind instruments, air 
compresors, and a mess of air hoses connecting the compressors to keep
the cushions inflated and connecting the cushions to the wind instruments.
Thus, you play a pneumaphone by sitting on a cushion or squeezing it some
other way.

Circuit-Bent Instruments - Inventor: Qubais Reed Ghazala. Ghazala developed
the art of circuit-bending - short-circuiting audio components deliberatly
in search of new sounds.  He's built some interesting instruments with this
idea, but the one on the CD is an Incantor, a heavily modified Speak And
Spell toy that is played by positioning metal balls to affect the speech
patterns and tone of the Speak And Spell voice synthesizer.

Bamboo Saxophone - A Jamaican musician named Sugar Belly built a sax 
outof bamboo, cardboard, and tin.  Greg, is your bamboo sax (on the Sol
album) like this? :)


I just realized I could go on all night writing about these instruments.
Suffice it to say this book/CD was a pleasant discovery.  Some of the
music (like the Sugar Belly, Daxophone, and Theremin tracks) is actually
quite accessible.  It's very inspirational to read that there are still
a lot of very creative instrument designers out there.

Cheers,
Paolo


From ???@??? Fri Jan 09 00:40:35 1998
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From: Fmplautus <Fmplautus@aol.com>
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 02:21:45 EST
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Subject: Re:  Gravikords, Whirlies, & Pyrophones
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Hi Paolo...great post about the instruments!  One of our friends has a
collection of waterphones and WE WANT THEM ALL!

In the same spirit, the LoOpDoctOrs, while doing ethnographic research in
northern Italy, came upon a furniture/lifestyle kinda place in Milan and
wandered in with their accompanying eight-year-old co-expeditionarys.  Both of
these tykes have sampled, looped and mangled with the Doctors live in front of
non-napping audiences, and are well versed in the kind of maniac and off-
kilter instrumentation it takes to win a place in the known looping universe.
One of them insisted that a copper napkin ring with a kind of twisted macaroni
ring would be just the ticket for infusing the next willing audience with
healing sounds.  We brought the napkin ring back to these domestic shores.

Frankly, we didn't look too excitedly at another triangle thingy, since we
thought Ricki Lee Jones and her record producers milked just about every
triangle sound ever created in the early seventies.  But the Doctors were
wrong.  This thing does a high frequency karinnnng alright, but what's very
strange is that the thickness and weight of the copper (all designed in the
service of holding a napkin, remember), also makes it twist at the end of a
suspending string.  When it does this while being rapped by a hard rubber
mallet, the most incredible whirring sound comes out, sort of like whirling a
plastic tube, but as one of the Doc's comments, also like a pumping Hammond B3
about to jolt prodigious numbers of smoking internal vaccuum tubes.
  
In short it is that rare sound at once earthy and ethereal that makes one sit
up, perk up one's ears, and then stetch like an alert, waking dog who's just
been buzzed by sweet but extreme high frequency.  Even with advancing age, the
Doctors appreciate the refreshing and renewing waters of creativity poured
forth from those younger with superior hearing at high frequencies and a
willingness to take napkin rings seriously as makers of music.

In short, just because you're eating with it doesn't mean you can't hear into
it too.

Best,
the LoOpDoctOrs



From ???@??? Fri Jan 09 11:03:01 1998
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Subject: Re: Jammies and Vortices FS
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 98 09:15:40 -0000
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>$250 OBO or trade ( claimed low usage and all accessories and docs)
>e-him at     legion@voicenet.com
>
>
>he has an interesting Web site at  http://www.voicenet.com/~legion--sounds
>like our kind of boy!
>
>
>Speaking of slimy East Coast purveyors of flesh and "vintage" gear, Rogue
>Music has another Jamman (they exclaim, "their hottest auction items") on
>their auction site--it was at $310 this AM and climbing

I've started keeping track of the prices of the discontinued baby Lex's, 
so if you happen across the final price for that auctioned Vortex, please 
let me know.

Travis Hartnett


From ???@??? Fri Jan 09 11:02:46 1998
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Subject: Looping near London/New Year listening
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     A brief plug for my gig next Friday, 16th Jan, when I'll be playing at 
     the Croydon ClockTower's Balcony Bar between 7&8 pm, prior to the 
     evening's main performance by the very wonderful Eduardo Niebla guitar 
     duo - further details from <http://subnet.virtual-pc.com/~or387751
     
     Also, a recommendation for a relatively new album out on ECM (possibly 
     Europe only so far), Nils Petter Molv¾r's "Khmer", which the label 
     describes as featuring:
     
       "Massive beats and throbbing grooves [which] underpin the 
       Norwegian trumpeter's fiery solos in a project that forms a 
       bridge between ECM's improvised soundscapes and the brave new 
       world of trip-hop, drum'n'bass, ambient/illbient, techno, 
       industrial, electronica and samples."
       
     I'm not sure if I'd've bought it if I'd read that first(!) - its a 
     factual description in many respects (most of those elements are 
     present in varying levels of prominence) - but reads like a slightly 
     desperate attempt to force together "everything that's new". The music 
     itself touches on areas similar in parts to Jon Hassell, Mark Isham 
     and possibly Ben Neill (3 other trumpet players - aren't I 
     imaginative), and I really rather like it. Not a unique stylistic 
     break-through or anything, but worth investigating.
     
     Also: I finally got hold of the [`Guitar artistry of...'] Bill Frisell 
     video, which is fine, although apparently a painful experience for 
     Bill himself; and in Tower's New Year Sale, I found a David Tronzo 
     Trio live-in-Japan-for-German-radio (or something like that) CD, which 
     has hints of looping, and is a cracking good listen too.
     
     Thats enough for now
     
     David
     



From ???@??? Fri Jan 09 11:02:52 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan  9 05:53:17 1998
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Tom Lambrecht <hideo@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Jammies and Vortices FS
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Another Vortex (from rec.mus.synth):

$250 OBO or trade ( claimed low usage and all accessories and docs)
e-him at     legion@voicenet.com


he has an interesting Web site at  http://www.voicenet.com/~legion--sounds
like our kind of boy!


Speaking of slimy East Coast purveyors of flesh and "vintage" gear, Rogue
Music has another Jamman (they exclaim, "their hottest auction items") on
their auction site--it was at $310 this AM and climbing

drone on~~~Tom
Tom Lambrecht  hideo@concentric.net



From ???@??? Fri Jan 09 11:02:56 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan  9 06:05:34 1998
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From: Tom Spaulding <tspauldi@gibson.com>
Subject: Re: What's that burning smell...
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Michael enth-oozed-

>PS Will it fit in my JamMan?

No, but your JamMan will make an excellent partner to your new EDP! ;)

Thomas G. Spaulding, Ed.p.


From ???@??? Fri Jan 09 11:03:00 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan  9 07:20:47 1998
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From: Andrew <andrew@bocs.co.uk>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: What's that burning smell...
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:14:34 -0000
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Aha !  A well executed entrapment. Tom has clearly admitted EDP's will be available any minute in the UK


-----Original Message-----
From:	Tom Spaulding [SMTP:tspauldi@gibson.com]
Sent:	09 January 1998 14:01
To:	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject:	Re: What's that burning smell...

Michael enth-oozed-

>PS Will it fit in my JamMan?

No, but your JamMan will make an excellent partner to your new EDP! ;)

Thomas G. Spaulding, Ed.p.



From ???@??? Fri Jan 09 11:03:03 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan  9 07:39:44 1998
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:34:45 -0600
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Tom Spaulding <tspauldi@gibson.com>
Subject: RE: What's that burning smell...
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Yikes! I gotta be more careful with these attempts at clever witticisms! CE
testing (whatever happened to Lend/Lease?) is happening as we speak. Or you
could emigrate. :)

p.s. Our GM is from Luton, England, UK. Does that count for anything?

Thomas G. Spaulding, Esq., Ed.p., USA


At 09:14 AM 1/9/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>Aha !  A well executed entrapment. Tom has clearly admitted EDP's will be
available any minute in the UK
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:	Tom Spaulding [SMTP:tspauldi@gibson.com]
>Sent:	09 January 1998 14:01
>To:	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>Subject:	Re: What's that burning smell...
>
>Michael enth-oozed-
>
>>PS Will it fit in my JamMan?
>
>No, but your JamMan will make an excellent partner to your new EDP! ;)
>
>Thomas G. Spaulding, Ed.p.
>
>
>
>


From ???@??? Fri Jan 09 11:03:11 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan  9 08:24:20 1998
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Tom Lambrecht <hideo@concentric.net>
Subject: Re:New Year listening
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Still haven't got that top 10 list together, but this post was a
button-pusher . . .

I'm spinning the following alot so far in '98:

John Zorn "New Traditions in East Asian Bar Bands" (Tzadik, 1997)--don't
know much about these compositions which were all apparently recorded in the
late '80's early '90s, but they are fascinating--CD has beautiful artwork
liner notes with translations that look like they were shrunk from LP jacket
size to CD liner size as the text is MINISCULE and unreadable without
contrast enhancement and a jeweller's loupe

--stories with female narration accompanied by:
first one, "Hue Die" features Bill Frisell and Fred Frith on guitars
second, "Hwang VChin-EE" has Joey Barron and Samm Bennett on drums
third, "Que Tran" has Anthony Coleman and Wayne Horvitz on keyboards

need I say MORE . . .


Golden Palaminos  "Dead Inside" (Restless, 1996)-- not for the faint of
heart or Pollyannish, the black text of Nicole Blackman with very nice
ambience provided by the Anton Fier stable (Skopelitis, Laswell and Knox
Chandler)

it's really scary to know that there is another human on the planet who
thinks these things, much less will commit them to media. Contraindicated if
you are in even a hint of a foul mood, before working with power tools or
after 10:30 PM


and old faves rediscovered:

Latin Playboys   (Slash 1994)
put a couple of Los Lobos in an old warehouse studio with Tchad Blake and
Mitchell Froom and a multi-track cassette and you have lo-fi inspiration for
home studio people everywhere--very gritty disc

Hukwe Zawose "Chibite" (Realworld 1996)--Hukwe and his son Charles--a
Tanzanian cooker with thumb pianos, traditional (read "primitive" . . .HAH!)
flutes, violins and incredible vocals including the first African
"throat-singing" I've ever heard--phenomenal disc

Gallon Drunk "Tonight . . .the Singles Bar" (Ryko)
collection of their scarce singles--a rollickng Phil Spector-meets-Jesus and
Mary Chain with maracas and organ 
got my copy out of the Best Buy cutout closeout for $0.49 . . .pearls before
swine

John Cale "Seducing Down The Door" (Rhino 1994)--two disc box with all the
goodies from the ethereal Paris 1919 period to the fencing mask-wearing
menace period (my fave--"Pablo Picasso", "Fear (is a man's best friend)"
"Leaving It Up to You")

Eno/Jah Wobble "Spinner" (Gyroscope 1995)--another mystery (soundtrack for
"Glitterbug"--anybody enlighten me on this?)
I haven't liked alot  of Eno's recent output, but this has some nice stuff

enuf' droning on already
Tom

drone on~~~~~Tom

At 09:26 AM 1/9/98 +0000, you wrote:
>     A brief plug for my gig next Friday, 16th Jan, when I'll be playing at 
>     the Croydon ClockTower's Balcony Bar between 7&8 pm, prior to the 
>     evening's main performance by the very wonderful Eduardo Niebla guitar 
>     duo - further details from <http://subnet.virtual-pc.com/~or387751
>     
>     Also, a recommendation for a relatively new album out on ECM (possibly 
>     Europe only so far), Nils Petter Molv¾r's "Khmer", which the label 
>     describes as featuring:
>     
>       "Massive beats and throbbing grooves [which] underpin the 
>       Norwegian trumpeter's fiery solos in a project that forms a 
>       bridge between ECM's improvised soundscapes and the brave new 
>       world of trip-hop, drum'n'bass, ambient/illbient, techno, 
>       industrial, electronica and samples."
>       
>     I'm not sure if I'd've bought it if I'd read that first(!) - its a 
>     factual description in many respects (most of those elements are 
>     present in varying levels of prominence) - but reads like a slightly 
>     desperate attempt to force together "everything that's new". The music 
>     itself touches on areas similar in parts to Jon Hassell, Mark Isham 
>     and possibly Ben Neill (3 other trumpet players - aren't I 
>     imaginative), and I really rather like it. Not a unique stylistic 
>     break-through or anything, but worth investigating.
>     
>     Also: I finally got hold of the [`Guitar artistry of...'] Bill Frisell 
>     video, which is fine, although apparently a painful experience for 
>     Bill himself; and in Tower's New Year Sale, I found a David Tronzo 
>     Trio live-in-Japan-for-German-radio (or something like that) CD, which 
>     has hints of looping, and is a cracking good listen too.
>     
>     Thats enough for now
>     
>     David
>     
>
>
>
>
Tom Lambrecht  hideo@concentric.net



From ???@??? Fri Jan 09 11:03:13 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan  9 09:30:30 1998
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From: Mark@asisoftware.com (Mark Kata)
To: 'Loopers Delight' <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Vortex Algorithms & EDP
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:23:10 -0500
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Hey Kim,

What would it take to program Vortex-like algorithms in a future software upgrade for the EDP?

Just a thought . . .

Thanks,
Mark Kata
Mark@asisoftware.com



From ???@??? Fri Jan 09 11:03:12 1998
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Tom Spaulding wrote:
> 
> Yikes! I gotta be more careful with these attempts at clever witticisms! CE
> testing (whatever happened to Lend/Lease?) is happening as we speak. Or you
> could emigrate. :)
> 
> p.s. Our GM is from Luton, England, UK. Does that count for anything?

Not in England!


-- 
Os
os@millennium.co.uk
http://webworlds.net/os/


From ???@??? Sat Jan 10 03:52:20 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan  9 11:48:37 1998
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:25:42 -0800
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From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Vortex Algorithms & EDP
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>Hey Kim,
>
>What would it take to program Vortex-like algorithms in a future software
>upgrade for the EDP?
>
>Just a thought . . .

It would take new hardware, since the Echoplex doesn't have much dsp power.
It's optimized for intensive memory, data, and interface control, which is
why it does it's looping thing so well.

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com




From ???@??? Fri Jan 09 11:02:47 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan  9 01:59:24 1998
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From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." <pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: What's that burning smell...
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Tom enthused:

>After several less than accurate guesses about the actual shipment dates of
>e-prom upgrades, we humbly announce that we began shipping yesterday.

Jeez, this is so exciting I want to order one, just to take part!  :) :)

Michael

PS Will it fit in my JamMan?



From ???@??? Sat Jan 10 03:52:22 1998
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:36:49 -0500
From: Michael Peters <MPeters@compuserve.com>
Subject: RE: New Year listening
Sender: Michael Peters <MPeters@compuserve.com>
To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
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>Tom Lambrecht asked,

Eno/Jah Wobble "Spinner" (Gyroscope 1995)--
another mystery (soundtrack for
"Glitterbug"--anybody enlighten me on this?)

no mystery. Glitterbug is a video by Eno's friend and filmmaker Derek
Jarman who died last year. It is basically a compilation of Jarman's early
and private super-8 films. Eno wrote the music for the video. If you want
to hear Eno pure, buy the video:

Glitterbug - The Director's Cut, published by 'Dangerous To Know' 1994, DTK
011 (probably available only in the UK)

Spinner is Jah Wobble's remix of Eno's soundtrack. I seem to remember that
Eno's 1995 diary (which was published as a book) contains Eno's comments on
that work. 

I like the soundtrack better than Spinner, but that is a matter of taste of
course.

___________
Michael Peters   
        http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters
HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want"
        http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm



From ???@??? Sat Jan 10 03:52:29 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan  9 12:35:13 1998
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From: "Ott, John" <John_Ott@ATK.COM>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Glitterbug
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:21:35 -0600
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As I remember Eno thought the Glitterbug soundtrack "did not work"
outside the context of the film.  And choose not to release it in that
form.  So he ask Wobble to remix it and add some parts.  Some
parts are unchanged from the film, others are remixed, some have added
material.  Spinner is more Wobble's vision of the work than Eno's. 

I have only spinner and not the glitterbug soundtrack.  

It's OK not ENO's best or most representative work. 
Actually Nerve Net is the last Eno work that I've listened
to much.  (other than his work with Bowie and James)

later 
John

> ----------
> From: 	Michael Peters[SMTP:MPeters@compuserve.com]
> Sent: 	Friday, January 09, 1998 2:54 PM
> To: 	John_Ott@ATK.COM
> Subject: 	RE: New Year listening
> 
> >Tom Lambrecht asked,
> 
> Eno/Jah Wobble "Spinner" (Gyroscope 1995)--
> another mystery (soundtrack for
> "Glitterbug"--anybody enlighten me on this?)
> 
> no mystery. Glitterbug is a video by Eno's friend and filmmaker Derek
> Jarman who died last year. It is basically a compilation of Jarman's
> early
> and private super-8 films. Eno wrote the music for the video. If you
> want
> to hear Eno pure, buy the video:
> 
> Glitterbug - The Director's Cut, published by 'Dangerous To Know'
> 1994, DTK
> 011 (probably available only in the UK)
> 
> Spinner is Jah Wobble's remix of Eno's soundtrack. I seem to remember
> that
> Eno's 1995 diary (which was published as a book) contains Eno's
> comments on
> that work. 
> 
> I like the soundtrack better than Spinner, but that is a matter of
> taste of
> course.
> 
> ___________
> Michael Peters   
>         http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters
> HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want"
>         http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm
> 
> 


From ???@??? Sat Jan 10 03:53:00 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan  9 18:55:47 1998
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At 02:21 PM 1/9/98 -0600, John wrote:
>As I remember Eno thought the Glitterbug soundtrack "did not work"
>outside the context of the film.  And choose not to release it in that
>form.  

       A few of those Glitterbug tracks exist in original form,  available
on a Gyroscope sampler
CD from a couple years ago.
       P.S.....  I'll swap it for something interesting..... I also have an
extra copy of "Spinner"....


   capitalist mode off, 
   Steve <spat@visi.com>



From ???@??? Sat Jan 10 03:53:11 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan  9 20:21:35 1998
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:10:18 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Looping in Minnesota      Jan. 15,16,17    (Acoustic Guitar)
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John Peters will be looping in Minnesota.  Rochester's Redwood Room at the
Broadstreet cafe  Jan. 15,16,17.  Come on down and enjoy!

Web page forthcoming with sound clips.  

3rd Cd. Project is under way,  send e-mail to anet@aol.com if you are
interested.
Cassettes should be mailed to John Peters 15     9th ave.  Nw.   Kasson,
Minnesota,  55944.   All recordings returned with SASE. (Self Addressed and
Stamped Envelops)   Have a good one!!!!!!!!!


From ???@??? Sat Jan 10 15:26:18 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 10 10:18:01 1998
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From: Dan Chapman <dchapman@seiniger.com>
Subject: newENO
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:16:46 -0700
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Hi All,

I just wanted to ask if anyone here has heard the new Eno cd  (1997)?   The
last one I bought was Nerve Net.  It seems recent to me but it's dated
1992.

Just curious.

Thanks

Dan




From ???@??? Sat Jan 10 15:26:21 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 10 10:44:00 1998
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:39:33 -0500
From: Jason Secord <innerspace@mediaone.com>
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<html><HTML>
&nbsp;

<P><FONT FACE="Abadi MT Condensed Light"><FONT SIZE=-1>Dan Chapman wrote:</FONT></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE><FONT FACE="Abadi MT Condensed Light"><FONT SIZE=-1>Hi
All,</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Abadi MT Condensed Light"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>

<P><FONT FACE="Abadi MT Condensed Light"><FONT SIZE=-1>I just wanted to
ask if anyone here has heard the new Eno cd&nbsp; (1997)?&nbsp;&nbsp; The</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Abadi MT Condensed Light"><FONT SIZE=-1>last one I bought
was Nerve Net.&nbsp; It seems recent to me but it's dated</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="Abadi MT Condensed Light"><FONT SIZE=-1>1992.</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Abadi MT Condensed Light"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>

<P><FONT FACE="Abadi MT Condensed Light"><FONT SIZE=-1>Just curious.</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Abadi MT Condensed Light"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>

<P><FONT FACE="Abadi MT Condensed Light"><FONT SIZE=-1>Thanks</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE="Abadi MT Condensed Light"><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT></FONT>

<P><FONT FACE="Abadi MT Condensed Light"><FONT SIZE=-1>Dan</FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
&nbsp; Eno does have a new cd out... unfortunately at the moment I can't
pin the name down... but I've heard it, and I like it.&nbsp; Sounds a bit
like Spinner, etc...
<BR>Little bit more on the techno side of things...&nbsp; Sorry for the
lack of solid and substantial info.... but that's what I'm good for (apparently).
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; You may try&nbsp; asking questions at WDET's web
site, which is national public radio in DETROIT.&nbsp; They love talkin
about how friendly they are there and I know that Eno's new cd has gotten
airplay there.&nbsp; I think there address is <U>www.wdet.com&nbsp;</U>
, but, as before, I'm not certain on this... sorry I just woke up.&nbsp;
Good luck!

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
J. Secord
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
innerspace
<BR>&nbsp;</HTML>

</html>

From ???@??? Sat Jan 10 15:26:34 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 10 12:05:22 1998
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From: "Joseph Buck" <josephbuck@hotmail.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: newENO
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:00:09 PST
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Hola-

Well Eno has actually released four albums in 1997.  The only major 
release was called "the Drop" and it was put out on All Saints records.  
It is in the category of what he calls "unwelcome jazz" as in jazz 
nobody asked for.  Pretty different.
The next was two limited edition releases tied to his installation at 
the white cube gallery in the uk.  the first was limited to about 500 or 
so and was called (appropriately)  Music For White Cube.  Some Eno fans 
balked as the gallery raised the price of it from 20 to 50 pounds as it 
became more scarce ala an art print. To my ears it sounds very similar 
to Thomas Koner transcendent piece "Nuuk." The other tied to this show 
was a very limited edition (25) which were unique CD-R's of a Koan 
generative piece.
Finally during his sabbatical in Russia he did an installation at the 
marble palace and released a cd called "Lightness."  It was only sold at 
the exhibition, and probably in the range of 500 editions.

For more information, check out the *definative* site on Eno- EnoWeb 
currently curated by the amazingly compassionate and informative Tom "G" 
Boon.

http://www.hyperreal.org/music/artists/brian_eno/ 


selam,



Joseph Buck



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


From ???@??? Sat Jan 10 15:26:35 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 10 12:42:39 1998
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From: Jonathan Brainin <jbrainin@interactive.net>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: newENO
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 15:28:34 -0500
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It's called "The Drop" and like lots of Eno's ambient recordings
you'll either love it or hate it.

Jonathan Brainin
jbrainin@interactive.net



On Saturday, January 10, 1998 12:17 PM, Dan Chapman 
[SMTP:dchapman@seiniger.com] wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I just wanted to ask if anyone here has heard the new Eno cd  (1997)?   The
> last one I bought was Nerve Net.  It seems recent to me but it's dated
> 1992.
>
> Just curious.
>
> Thanks
>
> Dan
>
>



From ???@??? Sun Jan 11 02:01:56 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 10 23:17:53 1998
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From: Salazzar2 <Salazzar2@aol.com>
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 02:11:32 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Borders in Mays Landing
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Greetings all....
  
Just a quick note to let all interested parties know that "Adelante" was
incredible.  Tonight was the first leg of the New Jersey shows and as far as I
am concerned, Paul and Jodi will see my face at everyone(and probably get sick
of me!).  Unfortunately, I arrived late, but I was able to catch about an hour
or so of the show.  The guys were great and seemed to have been received very
well at Borders.  I can't wait to see them in a more ambient-music-friendly-
atmosphere like the "Down to Earth Coffeehouse" on January 17th.  If you are
anywhere near the area, make it a point to check it out!!!  Or if you are an
hour and a half away, like I was tonight, consider it even more!!!  It was
well worth the drive!!!   
  
...that's all folks.....happy looping....
 
Daniel 


From ???@??? Sun Jan 11 14:42:29 1998
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>>Return-Path: <lists@slip.net>
>Errors-To: <lists@slip.net>
>From: lwordsman@pirnie.com
>Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 16:31:31 -0500
>To: Loopers-delight@annihilist.com
>Subject: Noisy Knobs
>Resent-Message-ID: <"3IN44D.A.e-G.2O_s0"@ferret>
>Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
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>
>


Hey Wordsman (my passion as well :)

Don't know if anyone got back to you privately or not,  but contact cleaner
helps dissolve the accumulations of goo that develop in old volume control
pots(variable resistor) and TV tuners--any electronic supply place has it

It's generally freon or solvent based--you usually need to get at the guts
of the pot--sometimes  with older pots with exposed gutty-wuts, you can just
pull the knob off, sometimes you need to pull the panel off--

Sometimes, you can work the noise out with JUST vigorous knob twiddling
(AAAAOOOOOOHHHHHHH . . . KNOB TWIDDLING . . .)  and no cleaner. . . No luck?

DON'T get carried away with the contact cleaner--the stuff is bad for the
environment and you and too much may create otherr problems. Spray a little,
twiddle the knobs (AAAAOOOOOOHHHHHHH . . . KNOB TWIDDLING . . .) see if the
noise works out

If this technical stuff stuns you, might I suggest you take it to Radio
Shack, which along with Auto ZOne,is the last bastion of charity service in
the sordid world of chain store retail ( I regularly see Auto Zone employees
in St. Louis, a city not known for kind deeds, installing windshield wiper
blades GRATIS on peoples cars!) It's a crap shoot, but:

Enter the store wearing kind of a helpless expression--try and find the
fresh, young employee (not burned out yet)--if he is wearing a pocket
protector or has tape on his glasses, even better--and patiently wait in the que

wait a second, are you FEMALE . . . strategy is slightly different, but for
right now, let's assume you are a guy

Ask the clerk if they have this "switch cleaner stuff that you squirt in the
amp to clean it"--wait for the horrified look and then after he or she comes
up with the can, politely ask  "so do you squirt it in these holes in the
back or is there a lube fitting somewhere?"

Unless he's a totally heartless bastard, help is on the way.

Good luck and drone on~~~~~~Tom


>Travis Hartnett Wrote:
>
>" I wanted to see if I could squirt some contact cleaner into the feedback
pot (it makes a horrible loud burst of white noise if it's rotated in the
lower 25% of its range. "
>
>My amp makes terrible noise when I turn the knobs and I was unaware of any
product that could help reduce that noise.  Please tell me more.
>
>
>
>
Tom Lambrecht  hideo@concentric.net



From ???@??? Sun Jan 11 14:42:30 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan 11 06:00:23 1998
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From: PJBMHB <PJBMHB@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1e8fafc7.34b8cf54@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:55:31 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Noisy Knobs
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I don't think they sell Freon anymore. It is nasty stuff that pokes holes in
the ozone. =-l PJ


From ???@??? Sun Jan 11 14:42:32 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan 11 07:13:27 1998
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Message-ID: <34B8E34E.A8A2E16D@bellsouth.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:20:46 -0500
From: Jeff Duke <jmar@bellsouth.net>
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Organization: Tec Bab Labs
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Noisy Knobs
References: <199801111348.IAA27657@marconi.concentric.net>
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Hey friends,
I was advised by an electician/musicion friend of mine,that radio shack tv tuner
cleaner is not the way to go.Instead use an electrical grade cleaner,I got my can at
the local auto parts store
and it works wonderfuly.Looping in Ga.,Jeff Duke sr.You can check out my new web
page at; http://members.tripod.com/~dukesr/index.html

Tom Lambrecht wrote:

> >>Return-Path: <lists@slip.net>
> >Errors-To: <lists@slip.net>
> >From: lwordsman@pirnie.com
> >Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 16:31:31 -0500
> >To: Loopers-delight@annihilist.com
> >Subject: Noisy Knobs
> >Resent-Message-ID: <"3IN44D.A.e-G.2O_s0"@ferret>
> >Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> >Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> >X-Mailing-List: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com> archive/latest/2165
> >Resent-Sender: SmartList <lists@slip.net>
> >Resent-To: hideo@concentric.net
> >Resent-Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:40:07 -0800
> >
> >
>
> Hey Wordsman (my passion as well :)
>
> Don't know if anyone got back to you privately or not,  but contact cleaner
> helps dissolve the accumulations of goo that develop in old volume control
> pots(variable resistor) and TV tuners--any electronic supply place has it
>
> It's generally freon or solvent based--you usually need to get at the guts
> of the pot--sometimes  with older pots with exposed gutty-wuts, you can just
> pull the knob off, sometimes you need to pull the panel off--
>
> Sometimes, you can work the noise out with JUST vigorous knob twiddling
> (AAAAOOOOOOHHHHHHH . . . KNOB TWIDDLING . . .)  and no cleaner. . . No luck?
>
> DON'T get carried away with the contact cleaner--the stuff is bad for the
> environment and you and too much may create otherr problems. Spray a little,
> twiddle the knobs (AAAAOOOOOOHHHHHHH . . . KNOB TWIDDLING . . .) see if the
> noise works out
>
> If this technical stuff stuns you, might I suggest you take it to Radio
> Shack, which along with Auto ZOne,is the last bastion of charity service in
> the sordid world of chain store retail ( I regularly see Auto Zone employees
> in St. Louis, a city not known for kind deeds, installing windshield wiper
> blades GRATIS on peoples cars!) It's a crap shoot, but:
>
> Enter the store wearing kind of a helpless expression--try and find the
> fresh, young employee (not burned out yet)--if he is wearing a pocket
> protector or has tape on his glasses, even better--and patiently wait in the que
>
> wait a second, are you FEMALE . . . strategy is slightly different, but for
> right now, let's assume you are a guy
>
> Ask the clerk if they have this "switch cleaner stuff that you squirt in the
> amp to clean it"--wait for the horrified look and then after he or she comes
> up with the can, politely ask  "so do you squirt it in these holes in the
> back or is there a lube fitting somewhere?"
>
> Unless he's a totally heartless bastard, help is on the way.
>
> Good luck and drone on~~~~~~Tom
>
> >Travis Hartnett Wrote:
> >
> >" I wanted to see if I could squirt some contact cleaner into the feedback
> pot (it makes a horrible loud burst of white noise if it's rotated in the
> lower 25% of its range. "
> >
> >My amp makes terrible noise when I turn the knobs and I was unaware of any
> product that could help reduce that noise.  Please tell me more.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Tom Lambrecht  hideo@concentric.net





From ???@??? Sun Jan 11 14:42:42 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan 11 12:07:34 1998
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Message-ID: <34B92624.2B11@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:05:56 -0500
From: djdowling@earthlink.net
Reply-To: djdowling@earthlink.net
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Boston area loopers and such
References: <199801090624.WAA01428@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
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Greetings,

I'm an administrator and project developer at a new theatre in
Somerville, MA: The Peabody House Theatre Cooperative. We are a
non-profit professional company in the midst of our first season under
this name and in this space (The Elizabeth Peabody House).

The Pitch: we've had great success opening the theatre to other members
of the artistic community (musicians, poets, visual artists) with open
mic style evenings.
Currently I'm developing a live music program where we will feature
musical acts in the same grand style as our theatre acts. The idea being
that "theatre" is not just "plays" but any performance event in a given
space.
Our black box theatre (formerly a Methodist chapel) is very flexible and
has been of great interest to our musical guests. Because of my interest
in loop-style music and developing a forum for acts that aren't always
suited to the club format, I'm feeling out the Boston Loop scene for
interested parties.

Email me privately and I'll put you on MY LIST. As the program develops
I'll update you.

Cheers,
Dave Dowling


From ???@??? Sun Jan 11 14:42:43 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan 11 12:42:45 1998
Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 1.73 #8)
	id 0xrUDP-0004Ss-00; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:42:39 -0800
From: Andre Cholmodeley <andre@monmouth.com>
Message-Id: <199801112037.PAA11768@shell.monmouth.com>
Reply-To: <@monmouth.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Gravikords, Whirlies, & Pyrophones
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:37:23 -0500
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Priority: 3
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X-Status: 

There's a ": Gravikords, Whirlies, & Pyrophones:" show up-coming at the
knitting factory

check out their live feed - i just enjoyed a few minutes of a 'virtual
show' last nite - great sound, tiny , but clear picture
pretty much every show is live, so those of you halfway @ the globe can see
some "bizarre" instruments live!!

the live feed and schedule are at

http://www.knittingfactory.com

peace thru music
 andre'


From ???@??? Sun Jan 11 14:42:44 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan 11 12:46:19 1998
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From: Fmplautus <Fmplautus@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5cb69d14.34b92dce@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:38:37 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Question about Looping CD/tape contributions
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The LoOpDoctOrs have other looping friends that would like to contribute to
any of the ongoing LoopersDelight cd or cassette projects.  Does an artist
have to be on the LoopersDelight mailing list in order to contribute to one of
these projects?  If not, whom should they contact and how.

Best,
the LoOpDoctOrs



From ???@??? Sun Jan 11 21:09:01 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan 11 18:31:34 1998
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	id 0xrZf1-0002bB-00; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:31:31 -0800
Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980111202733.006acad4@txdirect.net>
X-Sender: zom@txdirect.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:27:33 -0600
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: ZOM <zom@txdirect.net>
Subject: newbie says hello.....
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Hello, all.... I have many Real Audio files of my own loop projects up at
the URL below.....anyone else out there have Real Audio stuff online I can
check out??

Thanks!

Real Audio Zombie Project Music! Paisley Babylon, more coming....
http://www.txdirect.net/users/zom


From ???@??? Mon Jan 12 09:29:13 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan 11 21:21:16 1998
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	id 0xrcJ7-00065y-00; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:21:05 -0800
From: ANET <ANET@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a0299c7.34b9a56c@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:08:59 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Question about Looping CD/tape contributions
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I don't think they need to be Looper Delight members in that there are none.
Just those of us that subscribe to the mailing lists.  

If you would like to submit your work on tape, then you would want to
contribute to the third CD project and send the tape to me.

John Peters
15 9th Ave. NW
Kasson, Minnesota. 55944

Thanks!


From ???@??? Mon Jan 12 09:29:15 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan 11 21:23:13 1998
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From: ANET <ANET@aol.com>
Message-ID: <513591c9.34b9a728@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:16:23 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: newbie says hello.....
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You mentioned you have a lot of real audio samples at your site,  Would you
mind telling us how to place real audio samples onto a webpage?  I think the
streaming stuff is better than the rest of the audio players.  

Thanks!!!!
John Peters 


From ???@??? Mon Jan 12 09:30:13 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 12 07:43:21 1998
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From: "Matt McCabe" <mattm@bi-tech.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Question about Looping CD/tape contributions
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:34:04 -0800
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> From: Fmplautus <Fmplautus@aol.com>

> The LoOpDoctOrs have other looping friends that would like to contribute
to
> any of the ongoing LoopersDelight cd or cassette projects.  Does an
artist
> have to be on the LoopersDelight mailing list in order to contribute to
one of
> these projects?  If not, whom should they contact and how.

Well.....the Looper CD volume 2 (or whatever it's called) is closed for
submissions....unless you or your friends have emailed me privately in the
last month.

There is hope!!  ANET@aol.com is taking submissions for volume 3 (tape
based submissions).

This is all so confusing since volume 1 is sitting in a paper bag in
someones closet....somewhere.

Matt


From ???@??? Mon Jan 12 11:15:38 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 12 09:31:44 1998
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Tom Lambrecht <hideo@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Freon and protuberant cacaphony
Resent-Message-ID: <"q2UJ7.A.o8F.hClu0"@ferret>
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At 08:55 AM 1/11/98 EST, you wrote:
>I don't think they sell Freon anymore. It is nasty stuff that pokes holes in
>the ozone. =-l PJ
>
>
>
'Tis one of the reasons that you wear SPF 45 in Australia . . .

re: selling hte stuff: true for air conditioners and fridges (at least
consumers can't get it), and I'm not sure where they are on phasing it out,
but I think they still use various pure forms of it in teeny bottles for
cleaning contacts and tape heads.


>Hey friends,
>I was advised by an electician/musicion friend of mine,that radio shack tv
tuner
>cleaner is not the way to go.Instead use an electrical grade cleaner,I got
my can at
>the local auto parts store
>and it works wonderfuly.Looping in Ga.,Jeff Duke sr.You can check out my
new web
>page at; http://members.tripod.com/~dukesr/index.html

I would never get "tuner cleaner" either just cuz' it seems like it is
contact cleaner in a different can

I'd be inclined to get my contact cleaner in a (presumably) purer form at an
electronics place--but then again, with all the chips and gold contacts in
today's cars, there probably isn't any diff (and I'm sure it's cheaper)

drone on    Tom

"Membrane switches . . . why did it have to be MEMBRANE SWITCHES? . . ."
Indiana Jones
Tom Lambrecht  hideo@concentric.net



From ???@??? Mon Jan 12 11:15:48 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 12 10:05:11 1998
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From: Fmplautus <Fmplautus@aol.com>
Message-ID: <63fdba74.34ba56e0@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:46:06 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:  Re: Question about Looping CD/tape contributions
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Hi Matt:

You mean volume one is in like some paper bag in a closet aging and developing
a richer flavor...like cheeze or wine?

Incidentally, since the LoOpDoctOrs are supposed to be on volume one, remind
us again of the time limits on our contribution and deadline date for
submission, if you please.  Our keyboardist is supposed to come in here and do
something in the mac tonite and we don't want to wear out his fingers
unnecessarily. ;)   Wasn't the limit supposed to be six minutes per
contributor for the CD?

Best,
The LoOpDoctOrs


From ???@??? Mon Jan 12 20:59:51 1998
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From: james rhodes <sharkey@texas.net>
Subject: simm upgrade/ CD recorders
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hi you looping addicts::

just a little update to those interested...

maxed out the echoplex today ,,,paid $15.71 a piece for 30 pin
simms,,,works great
also discovered a source for 1 megs for $2.00 each (US)...pretty reasonable...
also ordered a stand-alone audio CDRW,,,a phillips 870....look forward to
recording live gigs to CD...should be in next week...

can provide simm info to anyone interested...

later loopers
james



From ???@??? Mon Jan 12 21:00:01 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 12 17:17:50 1998
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Subject: Re: Ibanez DM-1100...and my Crafty years
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 98 18:53:44 -0000
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From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
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>about 5 years ago i was playing with one of the original Crafty
>Guitarists..John Miley,,, when i lived in Athens, GA,,,i recall his looping
>efforts involved an Ibanez DM-1100 rack mount delay,,,i think it had about
>4 seconds,,,but i seem to remember you could change the tempo etc...anyone
>ever use one of these,,,do you still,,,if so,,please let me know what your
>impressions of this unit were/are.....

I had one of those, sold it, and regret it.  It was a 3.6 sec delay, with 
the usual controls.  The cool thing was the treble cut/boost knob which 
allowed you to alter the high-frequency content of the delay line--great 
for those old tape-echo effects.  I haven't seen one since I bought mine 
used around '88.

Travis hartnett


From ???@??? Mon Jan 12 11:15:54 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 12 11:11:53 1998
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From: Emmanuel Angel <angel2@dolphin.upenn.edu>
Message-Id: <199801121901.OAA03695@dolphin.upenn.edu>
Subject: Vortex for Sale
To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:01:47 -0500 (EST)
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	For sale:  1 Lexicon Vortex

	Condition:  New in Factory Box --- Never Used!

	Warranty: Registration card in box

	Asking Price:  $265.00

	Contact:  angel2@dolphin.upenn.edu


	As many of you know, this amazing processor sounds
	incredibly warm, with a host of delay, modulation, and
	other effects.  Highly programmable, with the ability
	to morph between sounds.  Stereo in's and out's.  Input
	for pedal control of audio morphing.  Standard rack mount.

	E. Angel


From ???@??? Mon Jan 12 21:00:14 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 12 20:12:33 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:29:49 +0200
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith)
Subject: Re: CD recorders
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>for any of those list members interested:
>
>http://www.srtl.co.uk/srtl/cdr870.html   will provide info on this CDRW
>
>US funds $600.00 for philips   pioneer puts out one for about $800.00 US
>
>


Hey Jim,

Let us know what you think of it, after you have worked with it a bit.

Thanks in advance.

PAtrick


 ***  ***    ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html  ***  **

  




From ???@??? Mon Jan 12 20:59:48 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:32:50 -0700
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: "Scott R. Archambault" <sarchambault@brierley.com>
Subject: Lexicon MPX-1 Update
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Here is a brief recap of an e-mail discussion I had with Lexicon regarding
lengthening the delay time of the MPX-1...


Are there any plans to increase (via software or simm-chip upgrade) the
delay time of the MPX-1?

Two seconds are simply not enough for real, Fripp-like looping...

-------------------------------------------------
Scott,

There is no memory upgrade path for the MPX-1.

It is our policy here not to comment on features or products that  have not
been released to the public.

Product introductions often coincide with major trade shows - the next such
show is NAMM in LA (Jan 29 - Feb
1).

Steve De Furia

Director of Product Management
Professional Products
Lexicon

3 Oak Park/Bedford MA 01730-1441/USA
Voice (781) 280-0340/FAX (781) 280-0490/email sdefuria@lexicon.com




From ???@??? Mon Jan 12 20:59:58 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:37:43
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: james rhodes <sharkey@texas.net>
Subject: SIMM source -$15.71(US)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.16.19980112102808.2e673388@texas.net>
References: <63fdba74.34ba56e0@aol.com>
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 hi the memory upgrade works just fine...
 4MB 30 PIN X3 60ns SIMM  came from Electrotex here in San Antonio
210-735-9271

hope this helps ....they do ship UPS...give um a call

later you slaves of de loopage
james



From ???@??? Mon Jan 12 20:59:59 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:49:29
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: james rhodes <sharkey@texas.net>
Subject: Ibanez DM-1100...and my Crafty years
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.16.19980112102808.2e673388@texas.net>
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hi 

about 5 years ago i was playing with one of the original Crafty
Guitarists..John Miley,,, when i lived in Athens, GA,,,i recall his looping
efforts involved an Ibanez DM-1100 rack mount delay,,,i think it had about
4 seconds,,,but i seem to remember you could change the tempo etc...anyone
ever use one of these,,,do you still,,,if so,,please let me know what your
impressions of this unit were/are.....

thanks
james



From ???@??? Mon Jan 12 20:59:43 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 12 13:28:09 1998
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Message-ID: <34BA8AAD.F120E219@bellsouth.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:27:09 -0500
From: Jeff Duke <jmar@bellsouth.net>
Reply-To: jmar@bellsouth.net
Organization: Tec Bab Labs
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Freon and protuberant cacaphony
References: <199801121719.MAA28317@mcfeely.concentric.net>
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Follow up;The contac cleaner I'm talking about contains no cfc's,instead it's
"powered" by carbon dioxide as the propellent.Of course it's still poison if you
breath or swallow it.
Jeff

Tom Lambrecht wrote:

> At 08:55 AM 1/11/98 EST, you wrote:
> >I don't think they sell Freon anymore. It is nasty stuff that pokes holes in
> >the ozone. =-l PJ
> >
> >
> >
> 'Tis one of the reasons that you wear SPF 45 in Australia . . .
>
> re: selling hte stuff: true for air conditioners and fridges (at least
> consumers can't get it), and I'm not sure where they are on phasing it out,
> but I think they still use various pure forms of it in teeny bottles for
> cleaning contacts and tape heads.
>
> >Hey friends,
> >I was advised by an electician/musicion friend of mine,that radio shack tv
> tuner
> >cleaner is not the way to go.Instead use an electrical grade cleaner,I got
> my can at
> >the local auto parts store
> >and it works wonderfuly.Looping in Ga.,Jeff Duke sr.You can check out my
> new web
> >page at; http://members.tripod.com/~dukesr/index.html
>
> I would never get "tuner cleaner" either just cuz' it seems like it is
> contact cleaner in a different can
>
> I'd be inclined to get my contact cleaner in a (presumably) purer form at an
> electronics place--but then again, with all the chips and gold contacts in
> today's cars, there probably isn't any diff (and I'm sure it's cheaper)
>
> drone on    Tom
>
> "Membrane switches . . . why did it have to be MEMBRANE SWITCHES? . . ."
> Indiana Jones
> Tom Lambrecht  hideo@concentric.net





From ???@??? Mon Jan 12 20:59:48 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 12 13:49:53 1998
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Message-ID: <34BA9025.24B90C00@bellsouth.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:50:29 -0500
From: Jeff Duke <jmar@bellsouth.net>
Reply-To: jmar@bellsouth.net
Organization: Tec Bab Labs
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References: <513591c9.34b9a728@aol.com>
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I would be glad to pass on my newly learned info on real audio.It's easy to make
them and put them on a web site.If your interested,you can email me at;
             jmar@bellsouth.net,and check out my new website TecBabLabs
at;http://members.tripod.com/~dukesr/index.html
Jeff  Duke sr.
ANET wrote:

> You mentioned you have a lot of real audio samples at your site,  Would you
> mind telling us how to place real audio samples onto a webpage?  I think the
> streaming stuff is better than the rest of the audio players.
>
> Thanks!!!!
> John Peters





From ???@??? Mon Jan 12 20:59:57 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 12 16:18:51 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:26:59 -0500
From: Jeff Duke <jmar@bellsouth.net>
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Organization: Tec Bab Labs
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Another follow up,The free Real audio encoder is
at;http://www.real.com/encoder/index.html it's kind of hard to find the free
stuff for some reason!Jeff Duke sr.

ANET wrote:

> You mentioned you have a lot of real audio samples at your site,  Would you
> mind telling us how to place real audio samples onto a webpage?  I think the
> streaming stuff is better than the rest of the audio players.
>
> Thanks!!!!
> John Peters





From ???@??? Mon Jan 12 21:00:12 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 12 19:46:58 1998
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From: james rhodes <sharkey@texas.net>
Subject: CD recorders
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for any of those list members interested:

http://www.srtl.co.uk/srtl/cdr870.html   will provide info on this CDRW

US funds $600.00 for philips   pioneer puts out one for about $800.00 US





At 09:37 PM 1/12/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-12 17:17:49 EST, you write:
><< also ordered a stand-alone audio CDRW,,,a phillips 870....look forward to
> recording live gigs to CD...should be in next week... >>
>
>Im interested in purchsing a CDR recorder.Does the phillips 870 or all CDR
>recorders have rca ins or other?How much does the 870 cost?Is the 870 the way
>to go?
>Any infomation you guys can give me would be greatly appeciated. 
>
>
>



From ???@??? Mon Jan 12 21:00:04 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 12 17:56:29 1998
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From: Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Message-Id: <199801130146.RAA24820@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Subject: Ground Zero - Consume Red
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:46:36 -0800 (PST)
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I just picked up the CD _Consume Red_ by Ground Zero.  

Ground Zero is a group led by turntable man/guitarist Otomo Yoshihide.
Consume Red consists of a single track which lasts about 55 minutes.
The sound of a Korean wind instrument playing a specific melody is repeated
almost constantly (a loop, I guess) while other sounds are layered on
and the live musicians join in.

I guess some might consider this CD an exercise in patience, but I found
it to have almost a meditative quality (then again, I can sit through
Steve Reich pieces too with no problem).

This may be the first in a series of posts about all the new CDs I picked
up that might be relevant to this ML.  I went on a buying binge thanks to
Tower Record's CD clearance sale and my somewhat quarterly sojourn to 
Lou's Records, a store located about 20 min. drive away from my apartment
which consistently carries the greatest variety of music in the San Diego
area.  They just added a New Music section, which makes it much easier for
me to find stuff by Keiji Haino and other weirdos. :)

Cheers,

Paolo Valladolid
 ---------------------------------------------------------------
|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list	|\ 
|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments 			| \
 ----------------------------------------------------------------  |
\ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info		 \ |
 \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html		  \| 
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From ???@??? Mon Jan 12 21:00:11 1998
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In a message dated 98-01-12 17:17:49 EST, you write:
<< also ordered a stand-alone audio CDRW,,,a phillips 870....look forward to
 recording live gigs to CD...should be in next week... >>

Im interested in purchsing a CDR recorder.Does the phillips 870 or all CDR
recorders have rca ins or other?How much does the 870 cost?Is the 870 the way
to go?
Any infomation you guys can give me would be greatly appeciated. 


From ???@??? Tue Jan 13 10:40:46 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 13 03:02:44 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 02:58:53 +0000
From: Fred Marshall <fred@fredmarshall.com>
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: CATCH IT WITH WHAT YOU'VE GOT NOW
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Kim Flint wrote:

> BTW, I read the specs on that philips CD-RW jobbie, damn that looks cool!
> Who needs DAT anymore?
> 
> kim

+++++++++++++++ 

- i stumbled onto this while seeking more info on the 870 . . .

- btw, the union just called to say that i have re-use fees coming from
a new Nissan commercial that uses music that i recorded w/ Vince
Guaraldi (Linus & Lucy) on a THREE TRACK . . . Ampex . . .(state of the
art at that time, the 4th track was the "sync").

- the vinyl sounds WAY better than the cd or the tv . . . 

- just do it . . . catch it if you can 

+++++++++++++++

Message-Id: <3273E6D3.5799@netrover.com>

Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 17:48:53 -0500

From: George Kotsopoulos <polaris@netrover.com>

To: logic-users@mcc.ac.uk

Subject: Re: Re-writable CDR (CDRW)


Rich wrote:

> The buzz in Austin is that CDRW will be out next year around this time
> at the $800 price point. Prices are expected to rapidly drop as they
> catch on. This probably means CDR will be blown out. I'm also
> speculating that CDR may never benefit from mass production as most
> non-musician users may wait for CDRW.
> 
> --
> ~~~RICH~~~~ 

I wonder what will happen when DVD-ROM and later DVD-Rewriteable comes
out soon after CDRW? With a capacity of over 14GB for a dual-density
DVD, I think that CD-ROM, CDR and CDRW days are already numbered. 
DVD-ROM players should be premiering this Winter with DVD-Rewritable
coming out in late '97/early '98.

Don't you just love technology?

George K.
Polaris Post Production...




______________________________________________________________________
> Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
> kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
> http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com


From ???@??? Mon Jan 12 21:00:16 1998
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:29:29 -0600
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From: ZOM <zom@txdirect.net>
Subject: real Audio
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I am using Real Publisher, which, if you can find it, is AMAZING. The
compression, for one, is MUCH better than ever. I dunno if that is because
of updated version, or if for some reason they saved the "good one" for
this product....anyway, it also creates an html code for the file once it's
finished encoding....it's a true 90's invention, much like the Web Page
authoring software selling for 80 bux a pop....... :-)
yes, i love it, minimal html writing, loads of streaming.....nice small
file sizes.


<shameless plug> Also, I've added a new one to my music page....</shameless
plug>
Real Audio Zombie Project Music! Paisley Babylon, more coming....
http://www.txdirect.net/users/zom


From ???@??? Mon Jan 12 23:09:04 1998
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In a message dated 1/12/98 4:19:50 PM, sharkey wrote:

>maxed out the echoplex today ,,,paid $15.71 a piece for 30 pin
>simms,,,works great

Exactly what type of SIMMS are needed to max out an Echoplex? What do I ask
for when ordering? I use The Chip Merchant when I buy Simms.....

Thanks


btw- just got back from a Fripp Soundscape concert at The Park West in
Chicago......whew!!!!!


From ???@??? Tue Jan 13 10:41:10 1998
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Kim Flint wrote:
> 
> NAMM is not open the public, actually. (Frankfurt musik messe is on two
> days, and boy does it suck.) You have to "work" for a company in the music
> industry that belongs to NAMM (national association of music merchants). A
> lot of people seem to miraculously find employment in the music industry in
> late january and appear at the show. Its sort of a see and be seen deal for
> some - there's usually lots of hair spray, spandex, silicone, and has-been
> rock stars walking about. (there must some neighborhood in LA that refuses
> to leave the 80's.) For the serious gearhead, NAMM is a giant toy store
> where you get to try all the toys before the other kids. Oh, and some poor
> souls actually have to work during all that noise and insanity.....
> 
> kim
+++++++++

- and some poor souls actually BUY those shiny prototypes that are held
together with chewing gum and fear . . .


From ???@??? Tue Jan 13 00:42:48 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 12 23:26:46 1998
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re:  simm upgrade/ CD recorders
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You want four, 4MB, 30 pin simms, any speed, any sort of chip
configuration. That will get you to the 198sec maximum.


BTW, I read the specs on that philips CD-RW jobbie, damn that looks cool!
Who needs DAT anymore?

kim


At 11:56 PM -0500 1/12/98, Marzzz wrote:
>In a message dated 1/12/98 4:19:50 PM, sharkey wrote:
>
>>maxed out the echoplex today ,,,paid $15.71 a piece for 30 pin
>>simms,,,works great
>
>Exactly what type of SIMMS are needed to max out an Echoplex? What do I ask
>for when ordering? I use The Chip Merchant when I buy Simms.....
>
>Thanks
>
>
>btw- just got back from a Fripp Soundscape concert at The Park West in
>Chicago......whew!!!!!


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com




From ???@??? Tue Jan 13 10:41:08 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 13 06:29:37 1998
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To:	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Clean 'Dem Pots
Date:	Tue, 13 Jan 98 06:57:05 CST
From:	"Todd Madson" <crash@waste.org>
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Chemtronics (800-645-5244) sells items called CHEMPADS (lint free, 
electronics grade alcohol pads) for
cleaning electronic equipment.  They also sell items called CHEMSWABS as 
well (kind of like a modern
foam cleaning swab that lets you clean potentiometers and other areas).  
This might work better than
an ozone killing type of cleaning fluid for cleaning your LOOPAGE tools.

-Todd (yes, I'm still here...)




From ???@??? Tue Jan 13 21:40:58 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 13 11:37:58 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:28:33 -0600
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Tom Spaulding <tspauldi@gibson.com>
Subject: Season of the Switch
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EDP fans-

The footswitches are finally shipping this week. Sorry for the delay!

Tom





From ???@??? Tue Jan 13 11:37:45 1998
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, mjpassos@rio.com.br
From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
Subject: Re: Thinking about SIMM prices and other values...
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>maxed out the echoplex today ,,,paid $15.71 a piece for 30 pin
>also discovered a source for 1 megs for $2.00 each (US)...pretty reasonable...

you know, of course I am extrememly happy with those falling prices. But
sometimes I stop and think: Where are we going? Will one day an egg be more
expensiv than a computer?
Is that closer to the real value, maybe? After all, there are still a lot
more cells in an egg than the lousy 32 million of a 4M SIMM.

We build our music in those 4 or 30$ of memory and they are the working
bench for so many people in all categoies (I put 8 bits on them, each time
I type  n o w) Does that say anything about the value of my writing or our
music?
So is it possible that in a few millions of cells there lives something
more valuable than an egg is? And how about a brain?

In turn we bring "life" into those clumsy SIMM cells :-)

All we consider important and beautifull and all we know about history -
from facts to feelings to dreams - is saved as a bunch of bits on some CD
or CDROM, and those might exist much longer than mankind. May they serve a
future civilization? So what we really do is to document this civilization
into its final phase as long as we can?
... and then the aliens come and get the CDs and watch them to have a laugh
before bedtime :-). Or they are on the net and laugh about me now :-).

So there is a slight chance that our music might contributing a tiny bit to
a new birth of something - like the oversized brain and the overcoming of
the "natural" fear of fire contributed to the creation of mankind?

How soon computers will be able to reprocriate as long as we feed some
machines with raw materials? (thats where the egg is still much smarter, so
far)

Sorry for the distracton.




From ???@??? Tue Jan 13 21:41:06 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 13 13:09:55 1998
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Reply-To: "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@earthlight.net>
From: "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@earthlight.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: simm upgrade/ CD recorders
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:55:26 -0800
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Matthias Grob <matthias@bahianet.com.br> intoned:


>>BTW, I read the specs on that philips CD-RW jobbie, damn that looks cool!
>>Who needs DAT anymore?
>
>I use mine to record what I do on stage :-)
>
>Those RW media are a lot more expensive and the machines about doubble,
>too. So calculate how many CDRs you record that are not worth saving and
>how many CDRs you can trash until its worth working with CD-RW...


I concur!  I think a fast hard drive with a lot of free space works just
fine for immediate recording, and CDRW would be fine if it weren't so
expensive.  What does anyone have against 'regular old' CDR?  :)  It would
seem that the media cost (or costs incurred by the media, like perhaps
speed/capacity) is still the issue.

Stephen Goodman           * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios
EarthLight Productions     * Get the Loop Of The Week Free!



From ???@??? Tue Jan 13 21:41:19 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 13 14:13:29 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:38:14 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com>
Subject: Re: CD recorders
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uh, did you guys somehow miss the point that this particular Philips box
records directly to both CD-R and CD-RW? With both digital and analog audio
I/O? And only costs $600? CD-RW media is expensive now because it is new,
same as CD-R disks were three years ago. So you could use the cheap CD-R now
and switch over whenever the price and extra convenience of CD-RW makes you
feel happy.

For me, as someone beginning to contemplate a serious home studio, I had
been wondering when abouts I should seriously consider getting a DAT deck
for master mix downs, live recordings, etc. I would much rather get
something that can go directly to CD. With that I can easily listen to it in
the car, in the boom box at the park, in the stereo, at a friend's house,
etc, none of which I can do with DAT or hard disk. I can store it in a
shoebox in the garage and not worry about tape oxidation. I can pop it in
the computer and pull up the data directly and easily. Why would I ever
consider DAT now? 

And one of these years, if we are very lucky, all of the warring factions of
DVD will come to some agreement about which re-writeable DVD-RAM format to
use, and how to encode musical recordings for DVD disks, and how to deal
with all the piracy/encryption issues, and that will be a great
standard....don't hold your breath though.....

kim


At 12:55 PM 1/13/98 -0800, Stephen P. Goodman wrote:
>Matthias Grob <matthias@bahianet.com.br> intoned:
>
>
>>>BTW, I read the specs on that philips CD-RW jobbie, damn that looks cool!
>>>Who needs DAT anymore?
>>
>>I use mine to record what I do on stage :-)
>>
>>Those RW media are a lot more expensive and the machines about doubble,
>>too. So calculate how many CDRs you record that are not worth saving and
>>how many CDRs you can trash until its worth working with CD-RW...
>
>
>I concur!  I think a fast hard drive with a lot of free space works just
>fine for immediate recording, and CDRW would be fine if it weren't so
>expensive.  What does anyone have against 'regular old' CDR?  :)  It would
>seem that the media cost (or costs incurred by the media, like perhaps
>speed/capacity) is still the issue.
>
>Stephen Goodman           * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios
>EarthLight Productions     * Get the Loop Of The Week Free!
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________________
Kim Flint			408-752-9284
Mpact Systems Engineering	kflint@chromatic.com
Chromatic Research		http://www.chromatic.com



From ???@??? Tue Jan 13 21:41:05 1998
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From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
Subject: Re:  simm upgrade/ CD recorders
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>BTW, I read the specs on that philips CD-RW jobbie, damn that looks cool!
>Who needs DAT anymore?

I use mine to record what I do on stage :-)

Those RW media are a lot more expensive and the machines about doubble,
too. So calculate how many CDRs you record that are not worth saving and
how many CDRs you can trash until its worth working with CD-RW...

Matthias




From ???@??? Tue Jan 13 21:41:25 1998
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From: Neal <ntrembat@OCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
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On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Tom Spaulding wrote:

> EDP fans-
> 
> The footswitches are finally shipping this week. Sorry for the delay!

It's the delay we want, just not the waiting.

N



From ???@??? Tue Jan 13 21:41:31 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 13 15:01:01 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:50:01 -0600
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Tom Spaulding <tspauldi@gibson.com>
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I laughed, really I did...!

Tom


At 03:52 PM 1/13/98 -0600, you wrote:
>On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Tom Spaulding wrote:
>
>> EDP fans-
>> 
>> The footswitches are finally shipping this week. Sorry for the delay!
>
>It's the delay we want, just not the waiting.
>
>N
>
>
>
>


From ???@??? Tue Jan 13 21:41:32 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 13 15:30:52 1998
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: andre <andre@monmouth.com>
Subject: Re: Ground Zero - Consume Red
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....>I guess some might consider this CD an exercise in patience, but I found
>it to have almost a meditative quality (then again, I can sit through
>Steve Reich pieces too with no problem).
>

see, i never got the "repititious" tag stuck on Reich, i think his stuff is
really dynamic, with  tons of harmonic changes, especially as you go thru
the years - Glass, however, who i also like alot, can be really repit. -
which is the point, i guess, meditative/trancey.

Saw Scott Johnson last nite, anyone familiar?? he was at the knitting
factory, he hasn't really played in 10 years, he's a great
guitarist/composer - he had a cellist, violin and piano/synth player, he was
on guitar , lus some DAT vocal samples and drum machine sequences were
going... excellent show. he did that "john somebody" piece from thye mid 80s
too!!

ac
>
>



From ???@??? Tue Jan 13 21:41:40 1998
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:32:08 EST
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wow...i remember scott johnson. cool! pj =-)


From ???@??? Tue Jan 13 21:41:59 1998
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qual@e-z.net

_______________________________
Matt McCabe
Finley Sound Design
Marathon Records
http://www.joshuanet.com/marathon/



      




From ???@??? Tue Jan 13 21:41:56 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 13 20:42:38 1998
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From: Grover Sheffield <gls@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Season of the Switch
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At 01:28 PM 1/13/98 -0600, you wrote:
>EDP fans-
>
>The footswitches are finally shipping this week. Sorry for the delay!
>
>Tom
>
Tom: Season of the Switch?- thanks for the Donovan memory and the laugh!
Also, thanks for getting the footswitches on the way.  I'll call Ric at
Banana's tommorow!               
>
>
>



From ???@??? Tue Jan 13 21:41:49 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 13 18:36:56 1998
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From: Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Message-Id: <199801140053.QAA01636@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Subject: Elliot Sharp - Figure Ground
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:53:48 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <199801130146.RAA24820@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> from "Paolo Valladolid" at Jan 12, 98 05:46:36 pm
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This CD is a collection of music composed and performed by Sharp for four
films.  The label describes the music as being as eccentric as the films
for which it was written and I'd have to agree. :)

Sharp uses just about all the instruments with which he has been associated:
guitars, some of which are self-designed; saxophones, computers, samplers,
synths, probably the Buchla Thunder (a MIDI controller designed to be played
by one hand), other self-designed instrments, etc.

There's looping in various places, but to be honest the most flagrant use
of looping I've heard Sharp use was on a live album recorded in Germany.
I forget the name of the album (it might be "Westwerk" or something like
that) but it's very much in-your-face live guitar and sax looping.

Anyway, this CD is part of a series of "film music" CDs being issued by
the Tzadik label in the U.S.

Cheers,
Paolo Valladolid
 ---------------------------------------------------------------
|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list	|\ 
|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments 			| \
 ----------------------------------------------------------------  |
\ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info		 \ |
 \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html		  \| 
  -----------------------------------------------------------------


From ???@??? Tue Jan 13 21:41:54 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 13 20:12:01 1998
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com>
Subject: Re: Elliot Sharp - Figure Ground
Resent-Message-ID: <"QDNg7B.A.yeE.hjDv0"@ferret>
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At 04:53 PM 1/13/98 -0800, Paolo Valladolid wrote:

>Sharp uses just about all the instruments with which he has been associated:
>guitars, some of which are self-designed; saxophones, computers, samplers,
>synths, probably the Buchla Thunder (a MIDI controller designed to be played
>by one hand), other self-designed instrments, etc.

Thunder is actually designed to be played with two hands, but there is
nothing really to preclude you from using just one. Or three, or your toes,
or perhaps as a musical serving platter for unexpected dinner guests. 

kim
_______________________________________________________
Kim Flint			408-752-9284
Mpact Systems Engineering	kflint@chromatic.com
Chromatic Research		http://www.chromatic.com



From ???@??? Tue Jan 13 21:41:52 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 13 19:48:41 1998
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From: KILLINFO <KILLINFO@aol.com>
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:33:12 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:  Scott Johnson
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In a message dated 1/13/98 3:30:32 PM, you wrote:

>Saw Scott Johnson last nite, anyone familiar?? he was at the knitting
>factory, he hasn't really played in 10 years, he's a great
>guitarist/composer - he had a cellist, violin and piano/synth player, he was
>on guitar , lus some DAT vocal samples and drum machine sequences were
>going... excellent show. he did that "john somebody" piece from thye mid 80s
>too!!
>
>ac

Scott is a truly great composer. He's had some disks out "relatively:
recently--"Rock/Paper/Scissors" came out in 1996 on PointMusic/Philips
Classics. Saw him do the "john somebody" piece too (many years ago) at a
concert that also included Paul Dresher.

T. Killian


From ???@??? Wed Jan 14 00:34:10 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 13 22:04:15 1998
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Magnets and Proper Plex Placement
Resent-Message-ID: <"1KOE8C.A.F6.MOFv0"@ferret>
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At 11:03 PM -0800 1/13/98, Chris Darrow wrote:
>I know that I need to keep my computer, my computer screen, my video and
>audio tapes away from my beloved speakers. What about the innards of the
>plex?

No, the proximity of the echoplex won't damage your speakers either....




.....sorry, couldn't resist that one.....furthering consumer
techno-bafflement is getting far more amusing these days....:-)

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com




From ???@??? Tue Jan 13 21:41:58 1998
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I know that I need to keep my computer, my computer screen, my video and
audio tapes away from my beloved speakers. What about the innards of the
plex? 


From ???@??? Wed Jan 14 10:22:56 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 14 05:50:23 1998
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From: Andre Cholmodeley <andre@monmouth.com>
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Subject: Re: Elliot Sharp - Figure Ground
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:38:50 -0500
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> 
> Sharp uses just about all the instruments with which he has been
associated:
> guitars, some of which are self-designed; saxophones, computers,
samplers,
> synths, probably the Buchla Thunder (a MIDI controller designed to be
played
> by one hand), other self-designed instrments, etc.
> 
wow.... i just got this Cd.... very cool and of course diff. from all other
E# i have...

hey - NJ area loopers - on superbowl sunday, JAN 25, 8:00pm, my Duo project
Jfk's Lsd Ufo is doing a show with Elliott Sharp AND Chris Haskett
(guitarist of the Rollins Band) - it of course will be a loopy nite, we
have a lot of llopage, guitar/synth, percussion, etc. If you're interested
at all, check out http://www.courttavern.com, there you will find links to
page for all 3 acts... Elliott is a tireless performer, in one week he'll
do a string quartete concert, 2 blues gigs 9acoustic AN electric), a loop
oriented spoken word accompaniment, and a crimson-esque ensemble piece

those of you afar - catch him live on the net this sat nite - jan 17th 8pm
nyc time at www.knittingfactory.com - live audio/video feed!! he's playing
with wayne horvitz, bobby previte and john zorn...

LOOPs away!!!



From ???@??? Wed Jan 14 10:23:20 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 14 08:06:40 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:55:26 -0700
From: "Eric R. Fischer" <efisch@artnet.net>
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I am selling my Echoplex and footswitch. It has 50 sec of memory, a
brand new curcuit board from Oberheim, 5.0 software, and the gain
increase mod on the LD web page. I have all boxes and manuals - $650.00,
buyer pays shipping.

Eric R. Fischer
(213)664-5632


From ???@??? Wed Jan 14 10:23:18 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 14 07:54:57 1998
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From: "Hogan, Greg  (Exchange)" <ghogan@lexicon.com>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Cc: "'jcuevasc@mail.giga.com.mx'" <jcuevasc@mail.giga.com.mx>
Subject: RE: Help Vortex Knob
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:41:42 -0500
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> ----------
> From: 	Jesœs Cuevas-Cardona[
> 
	"I bought a Vortex in in a retail price. Its a wonderful machine
but the
> right knob (preset selection) only works for presets 1 to 4. The
> anothers  presets I only can acces with a footswitch. Anybody knows
> what
> can I do to:
> 1. Reinicialize the unit, because the register/presets 7,8 and 9 are
> cleared and i can«t acces with the footswitch. I want unclear those
> presets.
> 2. Repair the unit. I think theres a problem with the potentiometer of
> the knob. There are someway i can repair (me or some electronic
> tecnician). 
>  
> I have not garantee «cause the special price. The unit is used.
> 
> Can anybody help me? Maybe somebody from Lexicon?"
> 
	Yes, Mr. Cardona,

	The 16 position switch is broken.  You should contact our
Mexican Distributor, Hermes Trading at +512-781-8472, to arrange for the
repair of the Vortex or the purchase of Lexicon part # 451-09555.

	Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is
anything that I can do for you.

	Best regards,

	Greg Hogan
	Lexicon Customer Service
	Phone +781-280-0372
	FAX +781-280-0499
	email: ghogan@lexicon.com



From ???@??? Wed Jan 14 10:23:18 1998
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From: "Hogan, Greg  (Exchange)" <ghogan@lexicon.com>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
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Subject: RE: Help Vortex Knob
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> ----------
> From: 	Jesœs Cuevas-Cardona[SMTP:jcuevasc@mail.giga.com.mx]
> Reply To: 	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Sent: 	Wednesday, January 14, 1998 10:25 AM
> To: 	GHogan@lexicon.com
> Subject: 	Help Vortex Knob
> 
> Hi everybody!
> 
> I bought a Vortex in in a retail price. Its a wonderful machine but
> the
> right knob (preset selection) only works for presets 1 to 4. The
> anothers  presets I only can acces with a footswitch. Anybody knows
> what
> can I do to:
> 1. Reinicialize the unit, because the register/presets 7,8 and 9 are
> cleared and i can«t acces with the footswitch. I want unclear those
> presets.
> 2. Repair the unit. I think theres a problem with the potentiometer of
> the knob. There are someway i can repair (me or some electronic
> tecnician). 
>  
> I have not garantee «cause the special price. The unit is used.
> 
> Can anybody help me? Maybe somebody from Lexicon?
> 
> Jesus Cuevas Cardona
> 


From ???@??? Wed Jan 14 10:23:28 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:01:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Adam Levin <alevin@ari.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: CD recorders
In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19980113213814.009b57d4@pop.chromatic.com>
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On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Kim Flint wrote:

> uh, did you guys somehow miss the point that this particular Philips box
> records directly to both CD-R and CD-RW? With both digital and analog audio
> I/O? And only costs $600? CD-RW media is expensive now because it is new,
> same as CD-R disks were three years ago. So you could use the cheap CD-R now
> and switch over whenever the price and extra convenience of CD-RW makes you
> feel happy.
> 
> For me, as someone beginning to contemplate a serious home studio, I had
> been wondering when abouts I should seriously consider getting a DAT deck
> for master mix downs, live recordings, etc. I would much rather get
> something that can go directly to CD. With that I can easily listen to it in
> the car, in the boom box at the park, in the stereo, at a friend's house,
> etc, none of which I can do with DAT or hard disk. I can store it in a
> shoebox in the garage and not worry about tape oxidation. I can pop it in
> the computer and pull up the data directly and easily. Why would I ever
> consider DAT now? 

As someone who just bought a CD-RW drive, I'll tell you why. With a DAT,
if you screw up, you can just hit rewind and start again with minimum
fuss. Or if you want to pause for a few seconds (or days) and then
continue recording where you left off, you can. With CD-RW, you only get
one pass through. If you screw up, you have to perform an erase on the
media and start all over again. There's no hitting a pause button while
you switch guitars or your drummer leaves his throne to visit the ...um...
throne.

The way I see it, DAT is the tool for initially capturing the material. 
The CD-RW is the tool for putting it on the CD when you are relatively
happy with your results. 

-Adam

---
       "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue,
       out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one 
                           becomes a Hearer."
                           - Chandrakirti



From ???@??? Wed Jan 14 10:23:29 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 14 08:20:57 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:05:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Adam Levin <alevin@ari.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: simm upgrade/ CD recorders
In-Reply-To: <007001bd2065$93945700$5323dacf@sgoodman>
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On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Stephen P. Goodman wrote:

> What does anyone have against 'regular old' CDR?  :)  It would
> seem that the media cost (or costs incurred by the media, like perhaps
> speed/capacity) is still the issue.

My drive does both CDR and CDRW. I'm using the CDRW disc that came with
the drive to do test pressings before I commit them to the CDR discs. 
Because of the reusable nature of the CDRW disc, If I didn't have it, by
now I would have wasted 3-4 CDRs getting things just right. 

-Adam

---
       "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue,
       out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one 
                           becomes a Hearer."
                           - Chandrakirti



From ???@??? Wed Jan 14 10:23:13 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:13:42 -0800
From: Jesœs Cuevas-Cardona <jcuevasc@mail.giga.com.mx>
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Subject: Help Vortex Knob
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Hi everybody!

I bought a Vortex in in a retail price. Its a wonderful machine but the
right knob (preset selection) only works for presets 1 to 4. The
anothers  presets I only can acces with a footswitch. Anybody knows what
can I do to:
1. Reinicialize the unit, because the register/presets 7,8 and 9 are
cleared and i can«t acces with the footswitch. I want unclear those
presets.
2. Repair the unit. I think theres a problem with the potentiometer of
the knob. There are someway i can repair (me or some electronic
tecnician). 
 
I have not garantee «cause the special price. The unit is used.

Can anybody help me? Maybe somebody from Lexicon?

Jesus Cuevas Cardona


From ???@??? Thu Jan 15 10:14:00 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 15 01:59:47 1998
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Subject: Re: CD recorders...MD too??
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 17:38:59 -0000
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From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
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>
>any thoughts on MD and where it's headed??
>here are a few of mine...humble as i can make 'em...

I've got the Tascam MD 4-track and the Sony 2-track home unit, and I like 
them both.  The Sony is great for recording gigs and practices (also has 
a mono mode which doubles the recording time to 144minutes--great for 
archiving rehearsal jams, since you can later edit out all the bad bits 
and insert markers).

Many people seem to have developed a knee-jerk reaction to the presence 
of data compression, but I think that a lot of that is people listening 
to the spec sheet instead of with their ears.  

For the money, I'd say they can't be beat.

Travis Hartnett


From ???@??? Wed Jan 14 10:23:31 1998
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
Subject: Re: CD recorders / Kim
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>uh, did you guys somehow miss the point that this particular Philips box
>records directly to both CD-R and CD-RW? With both digital and analog audio
>I/O? And only costs $600? CD-RW media is expensive now because it is new,
>same as CD-R disks were three years ago. So you could use the cheap CD-R now
>and switch over whenever the price and extra convenience of CD-RW makes you
>feel happy.

Thats a good point, I admit.

>... Why would I ever consider DAT now?

I agree completetly with all those points exept that I love the portability
of a tiny DAT. And it encurages me to give the work a clean up before I can
listen to it on CD.

OH, I just realize that I am talking to Kim - how are you once again?
Can you guys imagine that we exchanged 1400 serious and sometimes long
mails to keep the thing going? 5MB of text and a lot of code and list and
reports. The back bone of Aurisis. With me on the lower end :-)
And once a year we talk on the phone.

Kim is great.
Matthias




From ???@??? Wed Jan 14 23:32:19 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 14 11:34:42 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:00:10 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Joe Cavaleri <cavaleri@simi-valley.ate.slb.com>
Subject: Monsters of Grace
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		Hi all,


	Philip Glass and Robert Wilson will be preforming "Monsters of Grace" at
UCLA's Royce Hall.		

	Dates:  April 15 - 26
	
	Price: $35

	Info:  (310) 825-2101


		Listed as ....

	Three demsional animated images combine with live amplified music and a
quartet of voices to create a breathtaking sensual experience.


		

				See you there...

					joe



From ???@??? Wed Jan 14 11:00:09 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 14 10:46:49 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:35:43 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Gig listings on the web
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>Kim, you can now set up a page on the LD site with an HTML fragment that
>will execute an automatic search and let visitors to LD check all the
>loop gigs without even knowing that they are using the Musi-Cal system!

hey Pat, I do have a page like that on the web site! It's been there for a
while:

http://www.annihilist.com/loop/gigs/performances.html

I encourage you all to use it, it's a nice resource!

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com




From ???@??? Wed Jan 14 11:00:12 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 14 10:53:27 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:41:58 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: CD recorders
Resent-Message-ID: <"dKyEhD.A.T1B.zbQv0"@ferret>
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At 11:01 AM -0500 1/14/98, Adam Levin wrote:
>On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Kim Flint wrote:
>
>> uh, did you guys somehow miss the point that this particular Philips box
>> records directly to both CD-R and CD-RW? With both digital and analog audio
>> I/O? And only costs $600? CD-RW media is expensive now because it is new,
>> same as CD-R disks were three years ago. So you could use the cheap CD-R now
>> and switch over whenever the price and extra convenience of CD-RW makes you
>> feel happy.
>>
>> For me, as someone beginning to contemplate a serious home studio, I had
>> been wondering when abouts I should seriously consider getting a DAT deck
>> for master mix downs, live recordings, etc. I would much rather get
>> something that can go directly to CD. With that I can easily listen to it in
>> the car, in the boom box at the park, in the stereo, at a friend's house,
>> etc, none of which I can do with DAT or hard disk. I can store it in a
>> shoebox in the garage and not worry about tape oxidation. I can pop it in
>> the computer and pull up the data directly and easily. Why would I ever
>> consider DAT now?
>
>As someone who just bought a CD-RW drive, I'll tell you why. With a DAT,
>if you screw up, you can just hit rewind and start again with minimum
>fuss. Or if you want to pause for a few seconds (or days) and then
>continue recording where you left off, you can. With CD-RW, you only get
>one pass through. If you screw up, you have to perform an erase on the
>media and start all over again. There's no hitting a pause button while
>you switch guitars or your drummer leaves his throne to visit the ...um...
>throne.

Ah, I didn't realize that CD-RW works that way too, like CD-R I guess. Well
that sucks! Oh well, I guess I'm back to where I was before, wondering if I
need a DAT machine now.....

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com




From ???@??? Wed Jan 14 10:23:42 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 14 09:38:06 1998
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:35:11
Subject: Gig listings on the web
From: pk@mainstring.win.net (Pat Kirtley)
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Hi Loopers,

As was discussed here several months back, the Music-Cal musical events
calendar system  http://concerts.calendar.com   has indeed added a
"looping" category to their system. What that means is that when
loop-based gigs are posted there, anyone interested in finding out who's
playing where and when can search system-wide by "category" and see all
the loop gigs everywhere.

It's also possible to post things there that are not your own gigs, i.e.
if you know of an upcoming appearance by one of the more known artists
that is not already posted there, you can do the favor of posting it, as
long as you're sure your data is correct.

This service is free to all and it's excellent. Go take a look if you
haven't already. The more this system is used, the better it will become.

Kim, you can now set up a page on the LD site with an HTML fragment that
will execute an automatic search and let visitors to LD check all the
loop gigs without even knowing that they are using the Musi-Cal system!

loop on,

PK





From ???@??? Thu Jan 15 10:15:26 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 15 09:36:04 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:05:34 -0500
From: Jason Secord <innerspace@mediaone.com>
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<html><HTML>
&nbsp;

<P>Kim Flint wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>

<P>Ah, I didn't realize that CD-RW works that way too, like CD-R I guess.
Well
<BR>that sucks! Oh well, I guess I'm back to where I was before, wondering
if I
<BR>need a DAT machine now.....

<P>kim</BLOCKQUOTE>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; the whole subject seems to beg the question, "is all
this thought going to kill me before I get the chance to recieve my first
royalty check or what?".&nbsp; The whole subject of CD-R and CD-RW can't
be answered very easily today with DVD and god knows what other interesting
phenomena lurking around the "consumer-corner".&nbsp; A friend of mine
just got hold of a pretty interesting piece, a <I>consumer-grade</I> Cd
doooper (that only allows single copies to be made)... its got a digital
i/o and all, but for $1000.00 what's the point...&nbsp; On a brighter note,
I have heard good rumors concerning (of all things) an OLYMPUS CD-RW (<I>if</I>
I heard'em right) that wholesales at about 500 bones.&nbsp;&nbsp; That's
probably old information to all of you, but a guy's got to contribute to
the cause, ya know?

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; rock on..........
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;

<P>______________________________________________________________________
<BR>Kim Flint&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
| Looper's Delight
<BR>kflint@annihilist.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | <A HREF="http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html">http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html</A>
<BR><A HREF="http://www.annihilist.com/">http://www.annihilist.com/</A>&nbsp;
| Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com</BLOCKQUOTE>
&nbsp;</HTML>

</html>

From ???@??? Thu Jan 15 00:41:14 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 15 00:16:47 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:26:03 -0500 (EST)
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: andre <andre@monmouth.com>
Subject: Re: CD recorders...MD too??
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any thoughts on MD and where it's headed??
here are a few of mine...humble as i can make 'em...

i recently got a MD , a sony mz1 walkman recording MD (minidisc) - it's a
technology that died a few yrs back, but sony and i think, phillips has
tried to keep it alive... anyway - i'm totally blown away by how good it
sounds - even just recording a band rehearsal in basement - great, quiet
sound. and very convenient - it's kind of a happy medium betw. DAT and CD
burners:

-same time limit 74 minutes
-same technology, more or less, same durability, maybe more, you can hardly
scratch these MD discs, they are housed in a plastic case, like a 3.5"
computer disc...
- iknow, ikno, someone will say the dynamic range is smaller, sample rate
etc - but 'i'll tell ya - most of us are deaf, (kidding) but really, i A/B'd
some stuff recorded from a CD, and .... couldn't tell.

- you can pause , stop, etc just like a tape.
- you can, within seconds, delete a poor take or wasted time betw. songs,
etc, thus releasing the disc space for usage..
- most MD players will let you display song/disc title, set track points
wherever you want (great for a live/gig tape or a rehearsal - i can jump to
the 7th tune we worked on in 1 second...

so - check out this option folks - there are new home models coming out
regularly, the blank 74" discs cost me 6.49 on the low side, 9.99 on the high.




From ???@??? Thu Jan 15 00:41:21 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 15 00:37:23 1998
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From: Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Message-Id: <199801142303.PAA08995@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Subject: Re: Elliot Sharp - Figure Ground
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:03:47 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19980114031844.009f955c@pop.chromatic.com> from "Kim Flint" at Jan 13, 98 07:18:44 pm
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> Thunder is actually designed to be played with two hands, but there is
> nothing really to preclude you from using just one. Or three, or your toes,
> or perhaps as a musical serving platter for unexpected dinner guests. 
> 
> kim

I probably got that "one-hand" impression from Emil "Dr.T" Tobenfield
when he was describing his use of the Thunder under one hand, a MIDI fader
box under another, and various foot pedals to play electronic music.

Cheers,

Paolo Valladolid
 ---------------------------------------------------------------
|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list	|\ 
|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments 			| \
 ----------------------------------------------------------------  |
\ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info		 \ |
 \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html		  \| 
  -----------------------------------------------------------------


From ???@??? Wed Jan 14 23:33:26 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 14 20:37:10 1998
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Message-ID: <34BD66C2.266B@artnet.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:30:41 -0700
From: "Eric R. Fischer" <efisch@artnet.net>
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Thanks for all the interest folks, I sold it first thing this mornin.


Eric R. Fischer wrote:
> 
> I am selling my Echoplex and footswitch. It has 50 sec of memory, a
> brand new curcuit board from Oberheim, 5.0 software, and the gain
> increase mod on the LD web page. I have all boxes and manuals - $650.00,
> buyer pays shipping.
> 
> Eric R. Fischer
> (213)664-5632


From ???@??? Wed Jan 14 23:33:14 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 14 18:25:53 1998
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:48:07 -0600
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: ZOM <zom@txdirect.net>
Subject: Loopy, loopy, loopy
In-Reply-To: <215C1D5A0FFDD011B3CC00805FC18C291B8F67@NTSRV2.LEXICON.COM>
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Are there any loopers on the list from the Texas area like me? Curious. I'm
looking for some looopers who might want to play a show in San Antonio with
me...It would be a small gig, underappreciated, to be sure, but a lot of
fun and would make for an interesting evening meeting some of you. 

my private addy--
zom@txdirect.net

Also, got more Real Audio versions of some loopage at my site, URL below.....
send me YOUR URLS and we can trade links!
Real Audio Zombie Project Music! Paisley Babylon, more coming....
http://www.txdirect.net/users/zom


From ???@??? Wed Jan 14 23:33:29 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 14 21:38:43 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:03:07 -0500 (EST)
From: CORROSIVE@aol.com
Message-ID: <980115000307_989605908@mrin53>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:  Loopy, loopy, loopy
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hey!!@ any loopers in the Portland, OR area interested in starting a
downtempo triphoppy gtr loop & analog synth project? email
me>>corrosive@aol.com     thanks


From ???@??? Wed Jan 14 23:33:31 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 14 22:33:07 1998
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From: Fmplautus <Fmplautus@aol.com>
Message-ID: <78426705.34bdaa6d@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 01:19:23 EST
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Hi Corrosive:

The LoOpDoctOrs would be interested in playing in Portland.  Let us know what
you're up to.

Best,
The LoOpDoctOrs


From ???@??? Thu Jan 15 01:58:51 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 15 01:26:12 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 02:01:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Todd Pafford <todd@galen.dyn.ml.org>
Reply-To: Todd Pafford <galen@erols.com>
To: Jesœs Cuevas-Cardona <jcuevasc@mail.giga.com.mx>
cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Help Vortex Knob
In-Reply-To: <34BCF1E0.D63@mail.giga.com.mx>
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On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, [iso-8859-1] Jesús Cuevas-Cardona wrote:

> Hi everybody!
> 
> I bought a Vortex in in a retail price. Its a wonderful machine but the
> right knob (preset selection) only works for presets 1 to 4. The
> anothers  presets I only can acces with a footswitch. Anybody knows what
> can I do to:
...
> 
> Jesus Cuevas Cardona
> 
> 

Hi, sounds like the exact problem I had a short while ago.  I contacted
Greg Hogan from Lexicon (he's on the list) he got me the info on repairing
the unit. It turned out to be a faulty part.  Lexicon fixed it right up
for me free of charge (my unit was still under warranty). 

While I'm at it, thanks a bunch for your help Greg.  Lexicon really knows
how to treat it's customers. :)

---
"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear
 to man as it is, infinite."  -- William Blake

Todd Pafford   galen@erols.com 



From ???@??? Thu Jan 15 00:41:07 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 14 23:34:53 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 02:12:16 -0500
From: Michael Peters <MPeters@compuserve.com>
Subject: RE: CD recorders...MD too??
Sender: Michael Peters <MPeters@compuserve.com>
To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Message-ID: <199801150212_MC2-2F60-51A7@compuserve.com>
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>i recently got a MD , a sony mz1 walkman recording MD (minidisc) - it's a
>technology that died a few yrs back, but sony and i think, phillips has
>tried to keep it alive... anyway - i'm totally blown away by how good it
>sounds - even just recording a band rehearsal in basement - great, quiet
>sound. and very convenient - it's kind of a happy medium betw. DAT and CD
>burners

I heard that many people eventually encounter problems with MD which are
related to dust which gets into the machine and especially into the media.
(And apparently there is no MD cleaning disk available yet.)

___________
Michael Peters   
        http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters
HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want"
        http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm



From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 02:19:08 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 16 01:54:23 1998
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Subject: Re: Data compression, twitch factors, knee jerks and God
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 98 12:17:28 -0000
x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com
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From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
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>
>In short, we trust our ears and nobody's spec sheets.  And we are HIGHLY
>suspicious of faux scientific explanations as to why we should accept "less"
>as "more."  That includes marketing/compression schemes.  Bang for the 
>buck is
>one thing, but don't tell our ears they're related to jerky knees.   The
>"twitch factor" for marketing types with profit line incentives is much 
>higher
>then the 
>"knee jerk" factor in musicians.

Every form of recording technology has its limitations.
"Sergeant Pepper" recorded on an MD still manages to get the point across.
Hack engineers will yield poor results with unfamiliar technology, 
digital or analog, regardless.
All compression, analog or digital, represents a loss of information.
All professional recordings are compressed in several ways before the 
final product reaches the consumer.  Despite this, music still finds its 
way into the world.
Anything which is considered "state of the art" today will be viewed as 
hopelessly outdated within five years, including ADAT, the Echoplex, 
24-bit sampling, etc.
If you wait for the perfect technology to arrive, you'll never get 
anything done.
Take what you can afford now, and make the most of it.

Travis


From ???@??? Thu Jan 15 10:14:35 1998
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suscribe


From ???@??? Thu Jan 15 10:14:47 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 15 07:05:40 1998
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Subject: Re: Elliot Sharp - Figure Ground
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Interesting that it would come up on this list.  The Buchla Thunder is capable
of "algorithmic looping" or "MIDI looping" with a fair degree of complexity.  (I
own one.)  This is a much different animal than playing into a delay.  Is this
an apropriate forum for that synth-o-centric kind of stuff?

Kim Flint wrote:

> At 04:53 PM 1/13/98 -0800, Paolo Valladolid wrote:
>
> >Sharp uses just about all the instruments with which he has been associated:
> >guitars, some of which are self-designed; saxophones, computers, samplers,
> >synths, probably the Buchla Thunder (a MIDI controller designed to be played
> >by one hand), other self-designed instrments, etc.
>
> Thunder is actually designed to be played with two hands, but there is
> nothing really to preclude you from using just one. Or three, or your toes,
> or perhaps as a musical serving platter for unexpected dinner guests.
>
> kim
> _______________________________________________________
> Kim Flint                       408-752-9284
> Mpact Systems Engineering       kflint@chromatic.com
> Chromatic Research              http://www.chromatic.com





From ???@??? Thu Jan 15 11:39:34 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 15 11:07:52 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:11:16
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: james rhodes <sharkey@texas.net>
Subject: Re: CD recorders? MDS, DATs, or black virgin vinyl
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980115155143.006746cc@interactive.net>
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hello guys,

i chose a CDRW (stand alone unit CDR870)because the Audio CD is a standard
worldwide format,,i burn all of my recordings live anyway,,,so my tascam 4
track, really usually functions as a "live to 2 track" device...MDs are
great especially when it comes to the edit process,,,DATs are
outstanding,,,but most people i know dont have one...

for MY needs the CD recorder allows my music to be heard by more
listeners..but i would make music no matter what,,,DO THE BEST WITH WHAT
YOU HAVE,,,,its more about music and less about gear anyway.

afterall i prefer black virgin vinyl,,,and a diamond stylus

10011100000101110000110110101010101010101000001111010100011101010101010
analog james



From ???@??? Thu Jan 15 11:39:41 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:18:07
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From: james rhodes <sharkey@texas.net>
Subject: Re: New Echoplex Pro owner
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>Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:14:27
>To: tomroady@telalink.net
>From: james rhodes <sharkey@texas.net>
>Subject: Re: New Echoplex Pro owner
>In-Reply-To: <34BE329E.6FC1@telalink.net>
>
>hi Tom,  welcome
>
>you have come to the right place,,alot of sharp people on this list
>learn something everyday...
>
>enjoy
>james rhodes
>
>
>
>At 11:00 AM 1/15/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>Hi,
>>	My name is Tom Roady. I am a studio percussionist in Nashville Tn. 
>>I just picked up an Echoplex Pro at Gibson here yesterday. Tom Spalding
>>at Oberheim hipped me to your page. He had nothing but praise for your
>>webbsite. He said I should definitely check it out and here I am.
>>	I play drums and percussion with Chet Atkins also and I am the
>>Clinician for the ZENDRUM Corp. I have been using a JAMMAN for 2 years
>>to do clinics and live solo Zendrum gigs. I am very anxious to get into
>>the Echoplex. Looking forward to hearing back. Tom Roady
>>
>>
>>



From ???@??? Thu Jan 15 10:14:56 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 15 07:57:44 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:51:43 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Jonathan Brainin <jbrainin@interactive.net>
Subject: Re: CD recorders...MD too??
Resent-Message-ID: <"YyLGm.A.j8G.nBjv0"@ferret>
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At 05:38 PM 1/14/98 -0000, you wrote:
>>
>>any thoughts on MD and where it's headed??
>>here are a few of mine...humble as i can make 'em...
>Many people seem to have developed a knee-jerk reaction to the presence 
>of data compression, but I think that a lot of that is people listening 
>to the spec sheet instead of with their ears.  

Well, actually, the sound of a MD is compromised in relation to a CD
DAT or reel to reel.  However, in the real world, it's a irrelevancy.
The sound of a MD at its worst is significantly better than the analog
cassette.   Given the choice of a 4 track cassette studio or a 4 track
MD studio, I'd grab the MD with no hesitation.  
Jonathan Brainin	
jbrainin@interactive.net



From ???@??? Thu Jan 15 10:15:20 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 15 09:07:50 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:00:31 -0500
From: "Thomas W. Roady" <tomroady@telalink.net>
Reply-To: tomroady@telalink.net
Organization: ZENDRUM
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Hi,
	My name is Tom Roady. I am a studio percussionist in Nashville Tn. 
I just picked up an Echoplex Pro at Gibson here yesterday. Tom Spalding
at Oberheim hipped me to your page. He had nothing but praise for your
webbsite. He said I should definitely check it out and here I am.
	I play drums and percussion with Chet Atkins also and I am the
Clinician for the ZENDRUM Corp. I have been using a JAMMAN for 2 years
to do clinics and live solo Zendrum gigs. I am very anxious to get into
the Echoplex. Looking forward to hearing back. Tom Roady


From ???@??? Thu Jan 15 10:15:24 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 15 09:19:02 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:08:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Adam Levin <alevin@ari.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: CD recorders...MD too??
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980115155143.006746cc@interactive.net>
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On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Jonathan Brainin wrote:

> Well, actually, the sound of a MD is compromised in relation to a CD
> DAT or reel to reel.  However, in the real world, it's a irrelevancy.
> The sound of a MD at its worst is significantly better than the analog
> cassette.   

Yep, I own the Sony MDM-X4 multitracker and it's one hell of a step up
from my old Tascam cassette multi-tracker. No analog tape hiss!

-Adam

---
       "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue,
       out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one 
                           becomes a Hearer."
                           - Chandrakirti



From ???@??? Thu Jan 15 10:15:28 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 15 09:53:42 1998
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From: Fmplautus <Fmplautus@aol.com>
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:40:18 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Data compression, twitch factors, knee jerks and God
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<<Many people seem to have developed a knee-jerk reaction to the presence 
of data compression, but I think that a lot of that is people listening 
to the spec sheet instead of with their ears.  
>>

The LoOpDoctOrs don't agree...we listen with our ears and we hear that hard
disc recording kills what we can afford for analogue and we love the freedom
allowed by our computer.  

However, we find it alarming that manufacturers will play God with recorded
human history.  And we have been around recording long enough to remember
"perfect sound forever," the initial hype when Phillips/Sony introduced
digital.  It turned out to be far from perfect and the forever part only
applies to the painful aural butchery that that was made immortal in early
digital recordings.

In short, we trust our ears and nobody's spec sheets.  And we are HIGHLY
suspicious of faux scientific explanations as to why we should accept "less"
as "more."  That includes marketing/compression schemes.  Bang for the buck is
one thing, but don't tell our ears they're related to jerky knees.   The
"twitch factor" for marketing types with profit line incentives is much higher
then the 
"knee jerk" factor in musicians.


From ???@??? Thu Jan 15 10:46:14 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 15 10:26:15 1998
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From: Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Message-Id: <199801151815.KAA16927@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Subject: Re: CD recorders...MD too??
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:15:16 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <199801142226.RAA19374@shell.monmouth.com> from "andre" at Jan 14, 98 05:26:03 pm
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A friend of mine got an MD player so that he could play the bootleg recordings
he got from Japan.  Apparently using MD recorders for bootlegging is now
a common practice over there.

Cheers,

Paolo Valladolid
 ---------------------------------------------------------------
|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list	|\ 
|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments 			| \
 ----------------------------------------------------------------  |
\ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info		 \ |
 \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html		  \| 
  -----------------------------------------------------------------


From ???@??? Thu Jan 15 10:46:30 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 15 10:37:32 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:20:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Adam Levin <alevin@ari.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: CD recorders
In-Reply-To: <34BD289E.AE85CAE9@mediaone.com>
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On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Jason Secord wrote:

>  On a brighter note, I have heard good rumors concerning (of all things)
> an OLYMPUS CD-RW (if I heard'em right) that wholesales at about 500
> bones.  That's probably old information to all of you, but a guy's got
> to contribute to the cause, ya know?

I forgot to mention this yesterday, but the CD-RW drive I'm using is a
Maxell which cost $299 at Best Buy. It's not a stand alone unit though, it
plugs into the standard IDE hard disk controller on a PC (no SCSI needed).

-Adam

---
       "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue,
       out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one 
                           becomes a Hearer."
                           - Chandrakirti



From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 02:17:39 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 15 11:47:21 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:25:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Adam Levin <alevin@ari.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Data compression, twitch factors, knee jerks and God
In-Reply-To: <683dbb48.34be4a05@aol.com>
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On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Fmplautus wrote:

> <<Many people seem to have developed a knee-jerk reaction to the presence 
> of data compression, but I think that a lot of that is people listening 
> to the spec sheet instead of with their ears.  
> >>
> 
> The LoOpDoctOrs don't agree...we listen with our ears and we hear that hard
> disc recording kills what we can afford for analogue and we love the freedom
> allowed by our computer.  
> 
> However, we find it alarming that manufacturers will play God with recorded
> human history.  And we have been around recording long enough to remember
> "perfect sound forever," the initial hype when Phillips/Sony introduced
> digital.  It turned out to be far from perfect and the forever part only
> applies to the painful aural butchery that that was made immortal in early
> digital recordings.
> 
> In short, we trust our ears and nobody's spec sheets.  And we are HIGHLY
> suspicious of faux scientific explanations as to why we should accept "less"
> as "more."  That includes marketing/compression schemes.  Bang for the buck is
> one thing, but don't tell our ears they're related to jerky knees.   The
> "twitch factor" for marketing types with profit line incentives is much higher
> then the 
> "knee jerk" factor in musicians.
> 

Umm, so are the Loop Doctors saying that they actually hear a degradation
in sound from the compression schemes used in MiniDisc recording?

-Adam

---
       "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue,
       out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one 
                           becomes a Hearer."
                           - Chandrakirti



From ???@??? Thu Jan 15 11:39:35 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 15 11:10:37 1998
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Reply-To: "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@earthlight.net>
From: "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@earthlight.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: CD recorders
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:52:22 -0800
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Adam Levin <alevin@ari.net> chimed in with:

>I forgot to mention this yesterday, but the CD-RW drive I'm using is a
>Maxell which cost $299 at Best Buy. It's not a stand alone unit though, it
>plugs into the standard IDE hard disk controller on a PC (no SCSI needed).


Do let us know how you're using it!  At the least I'd want to have one just
to make masters and backups.  After using streaming tape for so long it's
not a problem to have to reinitialize the media, IMHO.  I consider that a
very reasonable trade-off for being able to burn CDs.

Stephen Goodman           * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios
EarthLight Productions     * Get the Loop Of The Week Free!



From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 02:17:55 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 15 14:34:28 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:47:00 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Sean Echevarria <sechevar@california.com>
Subject: Re: New Echoplex Pro owner
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Yeah,

Butt don'''''''''t let the pee-------------ple that youse lots of 
weerd punctu-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-shun (((and spullen))) throw you!!!!!!!!!

>
> Or,,,, them thar looperz that respond inside of what looks 
> like quoted text,,,,,,,,,,,
> We,We,We,Wel---------come abooooooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard
>
:)


At 07:18 AM 1/15/98, a looper wrote:
>>
>>you have come to the right place,,alot of sharp people on this list
>>learn something everyday...
>>



From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 02:18:38 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 15 19:09:23 1998
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From: Andre Cholmodeley <andre@monmouth.com>
Message-Id: <199801152007.PAA14173@shell.monmouth.com>
Reply-To: <andre@monmouth.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: .MD rumored "problems"
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:07:44 -0500
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I>>>>> heard that many people eventually encounter problems with MD which
are
related to dust which gets into the machine and especially into the media.
(And apparently there is no MD cleaning disk available yet.)

ANdre':well, yes , there IS an MD cleaning disc - saw one at least 2 weeks
back at a big electronic supply store... about $15 - i haven't invested
yet. i believe it's by JVC - but i'm sure they "all" have one.....

how prevalent are the problems?? what's the percent?? i'd be concerned if i
could verify that it was worse than the % of failed DATs, or skippy CDs,
etc. I would suspect the % may be around that/ or better than the % failure
rate of 3.5" comp. discs, since it's the same technology. the issue for me
anyway - is a  good live mastering medium - then i'll dump it to samoe
format (CD, DAT) for mass duplication on CrO2 cassette and/or CD

also- did you hear this problem about the regular MD or the MD DATA
discs??? the latter are  are the more expensive ($20-25) discs used in the
MD four-track machines.
___________

peace, andre'


From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 02:17:44 1998
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From: Andre Cholmodeley <andre@monmouth.com>
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Subject: Re: CD recorders...MD too??
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thanks for more info, travis... 

can the 4 track MD's be used fresh or played , once recorded, on the 2
track MD machine?? If so, wht do you hear, tracks 1 and 2, like a 4track
cassette in a reg. cassette deck??

andre'


From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 02:17:53 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:15:35 -0300
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From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
Subject: freedom, syncing and quantization
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Kim said a while ago:

>The issue of rhythmic freedom vs. various degrees of synchronization is a
>fundamental problem with multiple loops, I think. The effort involved in
>making these features musically useful on the echoplex was huge, but worth
>it. Basically, you have to give the musician the option to choose. And the
>musician should be able to make the decision on the fly, with a minimal
>amount of setup. Some musicians (like Matthias) do not want any
>synchronization, insisting that they always be free to tap the lengths
>wherever they please. And some, (like me sometimes) want precise
>synchronization, allowing for polyrhythmic relationships. And most times,
>different types of music and different situations just call for one or the
>other. Tough challenge for the designer!

Definitally.
I see at least three different levels, interesting for users that might not
be aware of:

Free:
Everything happens exactly when you hit the button.

Rounded:
Everything starts exactly when you hit, but stops, when the timing is in
some relation to the existing material, so the loop continues consistently.

Quantized:
Everything happens at a predefined moment, like the end of the loop, or at
a sync signal coming. This means that operation has to be antecipated.

The first level I imagined sutable for totaly free music. Its the easiest
to program.

My personal preference is the second. I cannot stand to wait for some
quantization mark that might not coincide with my perception of the loop I
am listening too. But I want to stay in the rhythm of a previous loop in
case I create a bigger one around it or with a brother in case of playing
together.
The biggest effort was to allow a somewhat late operation with round-down.
This allows the user to hit on the spot in his perception and any human
inacuracy is corrected. The unit then has to correct all that happened and
reconstruct as if the user had really hit on the spot.
All the Undos of the function are done on this base, and were the most
complicated to program: To stay in time but let it happen immediately means
to figure out where we would be in the loop if the user would not have
called the function he undoes now and immediately jump there. In the LOOP
delay those Undos where resolved on the quantize base, which is much
simpler.
In the next upgrade, SyncRecording (a Record to a external MIDI or Brother
tempo) will be available rounded, not just quantized as now. Much handyer,
I think.

Does anyone use the Quantize feature of the Plex? (I understood there is a
equivalent on the JamMan with a name I do not remember)
I guess Q level it mainly interesting to work in planned "organized" music,
where you treat bars and measures.

There could be several Q levels, like referenced to loop end or cycle end
or beat...

Anyone... ?

Matthias




From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 02:17:50 1998
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Subject: Re: MicroSynth
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Someone gave me one that does not work. If its value is high, it might
motivate me to fix it.

How much is the offer for a perfectly working one?

Matthias




From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 02:17:51 1998
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Subject: Re: CD recorders...MD too??
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>Many people seem to have developed a knee-jerk reaction to the presence
>of data compression, but I think that a lot of that is people listening
>to the spec sheet instead of with their ears.

The problem with the compression only starts if you process the sound later
because you escape from the save characteristics of the compression.
I remember its developper admiting it at an AES Speach.
So use it for recording final results only.

Matthias




From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 02:17:45 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:39:16 -0700
From: Jim Coker <jcoker@magelang.com>
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Something you might want to keep in mind is the cost of CD-RW blanks,
which I think are $10 or more, whereas you can get blank CD-Rs for
$2.50 in qty of 50 or more (with a jewel box).  I got a Sony 2x recorder
from APS (w/ Toast) for $400 a couple months ago and it works
great.

Jim

Adam Levin wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Jason Secord wrote:
>
> >  On a brighter note, I have heard good rumors concerning (of all things)
> > an OLYMPUS CD-RW (if I heard'em right) that wholesales at about 500
> > bones.  That's probably old information to all of you, but a guy's got
> > to contribute to the cause, ya know?
>
> I forgot to mention this yesterday, but the CD-RW drive I'm using is a
> Maxell which cost $299 at Best Buy. It's not a stand alone unit though, it
> plugs into the standard IDE hard disk controller on a PC (no SCSI needed).
>
> -Adam
>
> ---
>        "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue,
>        out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one
>                            becomes a Hearer."
>                            - Chandrakirti





From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 02:18:58 1998
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From: Andre Cholmodeley <andre@monmouth.com>
Message-Id: <199801152045.PAA00724@shell.monmouth.com>
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To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: time machine/ gig with ElliottSharp, Chris Haskett
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:45:19 -0500
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yaaaayyy!!

just scored a digitech  Time Machine 800, 8 secs of looping and fun!!!

and....(drum roll)

only $169 !!!!	eat your ROMs out!!!


Used Stuff Doth Rule.

and NY/NJ/DEL Loopers...I'll be using this new toy and others on superbowl
sunday at the 'Noisebowl 98' - 
sun jan 25	 8:00pm
the court tavern
new brunswick nj

-JFK's LSD UFO
- Elliot Sharp (solo TECTONICS w/mac computer)
-Chris Haskett band (Rollins Band guitarist)

i'm in the first duo, we use a ton of loopage, using digitech, korg,
vortex, boss delays, as well as live sequence looping
more info, links to all relevant sites are on the schedule at
http://www.courttavern.com
----------


From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 03:40:04 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:46:59 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Jonathan Brainin <jbrainin@interactive.net>
Subject: Re: Data compression, twitch factors, knee jerks and God
Resent-Message-ID: <"poLETD.A.2m.c-sv0"@ferret>
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At 01:25 PM 1/15/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Umm, so are the Loop Doctors saying that they actually hear a degradation
>in sound from the compression schemes used in MiniDisc recording?
>
>-Adam

I'm not sure if that's what they were saying bit I say that in comparison
to DAT or HDR, there is a discernable degradation in sound quality from
a MiniDisc that I would attribute to the lossy compression schemes used 
by the format.  

I think the use is not all that important.  MD, IMO is a "consumer" format
with the usual sonic compromises inherent to most mass market consumer
audio products.  DAT and HDR are largely "professional" formats.  But you 
use whatever tool you've got to make your music.

I think we need to find a new topic.  This is soon going to become a "analog
vs. digital" or "pc vs. mac" type debate.   
Jonathan Brainin	
jbrainin@interactive.net



From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 02:19:09 1998
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:53:30 EST
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Subject: Re:  Re: Data compression, twitch factors, knee jerks and God
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Adam:

The LoOpDoctOrs haven't heard the mini-disc recording, but we are most certain
that every pair of ears on the planet will hear it's recorded results a little
differently.  

We do believe that technology should serve human creativity, and not visa
versa.  

If the mini-disc, hard drive, DAT or CD-R is a viable tool for a musicians
artistic end, then good for him or her, but what is one person's so called
"knee jerk" reaction to a recording format, maybe an incontrovertable
aesthetic point for another.   

Another way of looking at this -- some artists sculpt in pig iron, others in
bronze.  Kodachome has different "reality" points to make then fresco and
camel hair.  Similarly scratching turntables has different noise
characteristics then the samples out of our synths.   One ain't better then
the other or worse because an engineer tells us so, and we have repeatedly
seen so called "flaws" in instruments/amplifiers/recording devices, etc. later
hailed as "the real deal."

As a general artistic credo, the LoOpDoctOrs like to think that the accidents
are more interesting then the plans, the boundaries ARE the horizons, and tape
hiss and digital clipping might be two very interesting aural toys to play
with.   
Here's a question.  A few years down the road could a musical aesthetic (read
movement) rise up around those darned hissy four track cassette tape decks
some are about to trash for the latest and the greatest?  
We're standing by.

In short, your recording medium IS a musical instrument, and it brings with it
inherent creative vistas and limitations.  Exploring that tension is the fun
part.  

Best,
the LoOpDoctOrs


From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 03:39:59 1998
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> >>
> 
> The LoOpDoctOrs don't agree...we listen with our ears and we hear that
hard
> disc recording kills what we can afford for analogue and we love the
freedom
> allowed by our computer. .... In short, we trust our ears and nobody's
spec sheets.  And we are HIGHLY
> suspicious of faux scientific explanations as to why we should accept
"less"
> as "more."  That includes marketing/compression schemes.  Bang for the
buck is
> one thing, but don't tell our ears they're related to jerky knees.   The
> "twitch factor" for marketing types with profit line incentives is much
higher
> then the > "knee jerk" factor in musicians.

and you're absolutely correct. but it's all about balance. i really think
life is too short to worry about a few 1,000 khz of compresssion or
inaudibility. very few people can blindfold test this stuff. I don't know
about everyone esle - but i make music so someone will hear it, and like it
or not, lo or hi tech, our music will  be heard on boom boxes, bose wave
radio, walkman crappy headphoes, car stereos of umpteen diff. quality
levels.. etc.

i 'm not trying to pick a fight in the least bit, but lets step back - if
someone finds affordable gear for their current budget and it can trap
their musical performance in time, that's all ya need. the recently
departed Micheal Hedges, for all the warmth and beauty of his guiatr sound,
used old analog tape machines, but also used digital stuff, synths and hard
drive recording. now's he's gone, as we all will be, and should we get to
that other side saying " i woulda recorded my masterpiece - but the specs
were wrong"

on the other extreme - again, you're correct, the corporations have, do,
and will milk all these alternative for what they are worth and beyond. the
trick is to catch what falls between the cracks, like the fisher-price
"toy" video camera that now fetches hundreds, or the quickly discontinued
casio cz 101, still a fave. i think MD may do a bit better, but is in that
category as far as the big suits are concerned.

use what works.

andre


From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 02:19:06 1998
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Subject: Re: CD recorders...MD too??
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> 
> A friend of mine got an MD player so that he could play the bootleg
recordings
> he got from Japan.  Apparently using MD recorders for bootlegging is now
> a common practice over there.
> Cheers,> Paolo Valladolid

yes, another awesome use. light , easy to use, great sound as a bootlegger.
while i'm on the floor recording the following show sat. nite  - i urge you
all to hear/see it

sat, jan 17 8:00pm NYC time (eastern)
Elliott Sharp, Bobby Previte, John Zorn, Wayne Horvitz

Live improv. should be real sick.

http://www.knittingfactory.com



From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 02:18:49 1998
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From: "Scot Gresham-Lancaster" <sgresham@csuhayward.edu>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: CD recorders...MD too??
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:38:09 -0800
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Of interest to loopers within the context of this thread might be the
DenonDN-M2000R which is a minidisc recorder with five cue points per track,
hot start, and the same A-B seamless loop playback circutry and front end
that is in the DF2500 dual cd playback system.  I have been using the
equivalent circut in the DMX-1000 "DJ" style mixer just because it has a
bunch of real time looping features that I can't get with either my
Boomarang, echoplex, or jamman. The interface design is very straight
forward and lends itself to interactions that are not simply of the style
that the designers intended.

This comment worth exactly $.02.

Scot Gresham-Lancaster
email: scot@csuhayward.edu
ph:     510-885-3150
fax:    510-885-3146
www: tesla.csuhayward.edu/~scot   =   meat
          tesla.csuhayward.edu/~scot/sglbio.html = bio






From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 02:17:59 1998
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From: "Scott Bullerwell" <tanelorn@dimensional.com>
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Subject: Re: MicroSynth
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Matthias Grob said:

> Someone gave me one that does not work. If its value is high, it might
> motivate me to fix it.
> 
> How much is the offer for a perfectly working one?
> 
> Matthias
> 


I just gave a partially-working one to former listmember Russ Gorton (which
I bought new in 1981 for about $200).  The street price in the US is as
much as $600 per--Bog knows why.  Apart from some groovy envelope
filtering, it's basically a crappy octaver and crappy fuzz with a noisy
footswitch.  

Scott



From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 02:18:50 1998
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Another Vortex (very fresh post from Harmony):

$150  with original box, footswitch and manual
mcgiggle@inconnect.com





good luck . . . 
drone on~~~Tom
Tom Lambrecht  hideo@concentric.net



From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 02:17:58 1998
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Matthias- are U talking about the Electro-Harmonix microsynth? I saw one
listed in Jan issue of Vintage guitar magazine for $650, but they usually go
for around $450...for some reason the bass microsynth seems to go for a bit
more, ya got me why


From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 02:18:59 1998
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Fmplautus wrote:

> Here's a question.  A few years down the road could a musical aesthetic (read
> movement) rise up around those darned hissy four track cassette tape decks
> some are about to trash for the latest and the greatest?
> We're standing by.

This has already been going on for many years as part of the whole
so-called "lo-fi" movement in alternative/independent rock, where the
distinctive sonic signature of cassette multi-tracks is not only a
prevelant characteristic, but a highly desirable one as well.  This
"lack" of sonic quality is a prized element of the whole aesthetic. 
It's also, in some cases, tied in to a philosophical reaction against
conventional ideas of demo tape-vs.-"real album" fidelity, major label
production standards, the reliance on having to have a certain amount of
technology to make a "serious" statement, etc.

Likewise, the tremendous rise of sample-CDs (compact discs filled with
short snippets of beats and sounds, intended to be sampled in the studio
and used for song production) over the last few years reflects a similar
fixation with impure sound.  A lot of what a person is buying on those
CDs is a certain unclean, artifact-ridden quality (which, ironically, is
often constructed for those CDs through elaborate and extensive
in-studio doctoring) that's hard to get from a straight drum machine or
synthesizer.  

In related areas, you can look at something like the Roland VS-880 hard
disk recorder, which actually has an effect built into it called "Lo-Fi
Processor."  This is a multi-stage effect which operates upon the
all-digital signal flow of the VS-880, which allows you to dial in lower
sampling frequencies and bit rates, introduce digital distortion, and
emphasize all manner of aliasings and frequencies.  In short, you've got
a cutting edge modern processor going to great pains to sound like a
low-quality sampler from a decade ago.

Some stand-alone effects processors offer similar functions, and I
remember reading a review of one which actually had a "patch" that
delivered a steady stream of sound emulating the crackling of a stylus
on a worn piece of vinyl.  

It's been interesting to see the way that the playing field for what
constitutes "commercially acceptable" sound has levelled out over the
past decade, with the advent of both the hip-hop/electronic side of
things as well as the "grunge" movement.  At this point, a guy with one
decent sampler, a good mixing board, and some kind of rudminentary
sequencer can record music in his home studio that's on par with most of
the records in the techno/ambient/electronic genre.  The much-acclaimed
DJ Shadow record from 1996, for instance, created from nothing but
samples from vinyl records, was made using one turntable, an modest AKAI
MPC-series drum machine/sampler unit, and one 8-track ADAT unit.  There
wasn't even a standalone sequencer or computer involved.

Likewise, the advent of the post-Brendan O'Brian/Steve Albini/Butch Vig
school of rock production means that a lot of guitar-oriented bands are
more able to get a mainstream-approved sound for a lower amount of
money, because the sort of sound that you hear on a Pearl Jam or Nirvana
record simply doesn't require the same sort of big-budget studio polish
that you'd need in order to make a circa-1987 Def Leppard or Whitesnake
album.  (I recall a quote from the producer of the first Counting Crows
album, who told the band, "You've made a demo that sounds like an
album.  Now you need to make an album that sounds like a demo.")  A lot
of alternative rock acts who started out independant before signing with
a major label wind up getting their original independent releases
reissued by the majors, either straight or in remixed form, because the
current standard for the sound of rock records is "lower" in the
audiophile/_Stereo Review_ sort of sense than it was a decade ago.

Of course, fetishism with imperfection gets taken to some bizarre and
arguably obscene stages, as with the Fender Custom Shop line of "relic"
guitars, an expensive (well over the $1,000 price point) line of new
instruments which have been "aged" at the factory through the
application of artificial rust, holes in the paint job, and other types
of pseudo-wear and tear which provide the cosmetic illusion of a vintage
instrument on a newly-manufactured item.  The company boasts, "No two
Relic guitars are aged in precisely the same way!"

--Andre


From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 02:18:39 1998
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From: "future perfect" <artmusic@gte.net>
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I used to own the E-H Guitar Synth, a 3- space rack mounted super-duper
version of the Microsynth..I sold this for an embarrassingly small amount
about 6 years ago. It was quite a horrific beast that made equally bizzaro
noises. I think Steve Howe used one on the first ASIA album.
Dave Eichenberger
*********************************************************************
'Future Perfect' - progressive art music - visit our website at:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082




>Matthias- are U talking about the Electro-Harmonix microsynth? I saw one
>listed in Jan issue of Vintage guitar magazine for $650, but they usually
go
>for around $450...for some reason the bass microsynth seems to go for a bit
>more, ya got me why
>



From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 02:18:47 1998
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From: Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Message-Id: <199801160158.RAA19919@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Subject: Dimension Beam
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:58:55 -0800 (PST)
Cc: stickwire-l@netcom.com
In-Reply-To: <199801152212.PAA32461@hyper.dimensional.com> from "Scott Bullerwell" at Jan 15, 98 03:07:09 pm
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How's this for a weird, new, yet cool MIDI controller:

Dimension Beam
http://www.interactivelight.com/db/

It generates an egg-shaped force field which senses movement and translates
it to MIDI.  Some famous users:

Nick of Duran Duran - puts it atop his keyboard rack and activates it by
leaning into the force field.

Trey Gunn - Controls his effects parameters by moving in and out of the
field, waving his headstock throught it, etc. while playing his Warr
Guitar.

Peter Gabriel - Uses it in his studio to bring in sounds literally out of
the air, it being connected to his synths, samplers, etc.

And I thought the Theremin was cool.....


Cheers,

Paolo Valladolid
 ---------------------------------------------------------------
|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list	|\ 
|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments 			| \
 ----------------------------------------------------------------  |
\ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info		 \ |
 \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html		  \| 
  -----------------------------------------------------------------


From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 02:18:46 1998
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From: Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com>
Subject: Re: freedom, syncing and quantization
Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
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At 05:15 PM 1/15/98 -0300, Matthias Grob wrote:

>Does anyone use the Quantize feature of the Plex? (I understood there is a
>equivalent on the JamMan with a name I do not remember)
>I guess Q level it mainly interesting to work in planned "organized" music,
>where you treat bars and measures.

I use the quantize function a lot these days. Originally I liked it because
it helped me execute functions more accurately while playing guitar. I don't
play guitar with loops so much these days (or much at all actually), I'm
following some muse into more percussively oriented electronic dance music.
It's organized in the sense that you are often concerned about maintaining a
beat and keeping things aligned according to measure and section, which
means a heavy use of midi clock for syncing. In my case the planned aspect
mostly ends there, as I'm experimenting with taking a more improvised
approach to it rather than sequencing every last millisecond. But I still
want to keep the tempo and beat steady, and not have those things fly out of
my control.

For this, quantized loop functions are great. It's very easy to record
things played in real time and get a loop sync'd with the sequence and
aligned with the first beat of the pattern. Since I'm also manipulating the
mixer or effects parameters, or triggering drum samples or something, it's
incredibly handy to be able to press the record or multiply or whatever
function when it is convenient, and know that it is going to come in exactly
when it is supposed to. I can finish the function in the same way, by
pressing when it is convenient, and the plex ends the function quantized to
the end of the sequenced patterns. I can then go about manipulating this
loop, effecting it, mixing it in and out, generally terrorizing it, but
keeping it in time the way I want.  

As an example, I have the loopers on aux sends of the mixer, synced to midi
clock from a sequencer. I like to take a loop of the drums and reverse it,
mixing the reverse in and out with the original. First I start the sequence
and then record a loop of its output, which is very convenient because
everything is sync'd and quantized to the first beat of the pattern. I just
hit record any time, and it starts at the right moment. I hit it again when
I've got as much as I want, and it waits to end of the measure to end for
me. Easy! The two are sync'd, aligned, running along next to each other.
Then I hit reverse on the echoplex. The quantizing waits to the end of the
measure before reversing the loop. So now the reversed drums are going,
still sync'd to the original and aligned to the measures. Then I go nuts
with the faders, bringing reversed drum hits in and out, using quick
crossfades between the two, or whatever, creating a new pattern of reverse
and forward drums.

I might then use multiply to add some real-time playing to the loop, put it
back forwards, and mix between the new loop and the old pattern. Or change
patterns, or whatever. I'll use NextLoop to record several different loops
like this, and it's all quantized and in time with the clock and lined up
with other echoplexes and the sequencer. I can do quantized switches between
all the loops, while mostly concentrating on the mixer, effects, and
playing, and it all stays in time where I want it. There's tons of
possibilities, and I'm only just beginning to explore it with a rather
rudimentary setup. Without quantize I would never be able to execute the
loop functions perfectly enough to keep it all together. With quantize it's
a snap, and I can concentrate on doing other things while the looper does
it's job on it's own.

As a more advanced technique, I also like to set the echoplexes to time
signatures different from the sequence and each other. Then I capture the
drum pattern from the sequencer in different time signatures, and run it
next to the original. So I might have the original in 4/4 and the loop in
13/8. Running them next to each other gives a constantly shifting rhythm
pattern that can be very interesting. By controlling the mix you can easily
change which one dominates, effectively morphing from one time signature to
another. Quantize is again a life saver here, because I can execute loop
functions without the beat getting out of whack. What's also interesting is
the quantize point changes against the original sequence. It's still in
time, just at a different beat each time through. So you can keep things
evolving.

so anyway, I'm a quantizing fan!

now back to the boring work....

kim
________________________________________________________
Kim Flint		       408-752-9284
Mpact System Engineering       kflint@chromatic.com
Chromatic Research             http://www.chromatic.com



From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 10:10:01 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 16 06:49:10 1998
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From: miguel.barella@poyry.com.br (MAT)
Subject: Re[2]: MicroSynth
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Tom Lambrecht <hideo@concentric.net> 
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     For the Electro Harmonix admirers: there is a site with all the 
     schematics.
     
     http://home.earthlink.net/~theehman/schem.htm#Electro-Harmonix
     
     Miguel


___________________________ Separador de Resposta ______________________________
Assunto: Re: MicroSynth
Autor:  Tom Lambrecht <hideo@concentric.net> na internet
Data:    16/01/1998 04:15


Matthias:
     
if you are going to try to make a killing on this, now is a good time to fix 
it. this is one of two units that EH has scheduled for reissue (which will 
probably adversely impact the used market price).
     
Tom
     
     
At 03:07 PM 1/15/98 -0700, you wrote: 
>
>Matthias Grob said:
>
>> Someone gave me one that does not work. If its value is high, it might 
>> motivate me to fix it.
>> 
>> How much is the offer for a perfectly working one? 
>> 
>> Matthias
>> 
>
>
>I just gave a partially-working one to former listmember Russ Gorton (which 
>I bought new in 1981 for about $200).  The street price in the US is as 
>much as $600 per--Bog knows why.  Apart from some groovy envelope 
>filtering, it's basically a crappy octaver and crappy fuzz with a noisy 
>footswitch.  
>
>Scott
>
>
>
>
Tom Lambrecht  hideo@concentric.net
     
     


From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 02:18:57 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 15 23:17:33 1998
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Dave- I'm VERY interested in your impression of the big 3 rack space EH guitar
synth, if you would be so kind- I'm a big collector of EH stuff (have been
since '75 when I bought my first big muff mail order...)  I have most of the
usual suspects, but have never even seen the big gtr synth in real life & I'd
really enjoy hearing your review. thanks!>>>greg horn


From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 02:19:00 1998
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Greg and the rest...
The E-H Guitar Synthesizer that I owned was indeed 3 rack spaces, but since
I got rid of it a few years ago, I'll try to remember the features..
-Input w/LED
-2 tunable oscillators, each with resonance, tuning, fine tuning and volume
controls..you could also 'sync' their tuning to each other, and switch
between saw tooth and triangle waveforms
-1 additional oscillator that was tuned an octave above the input signal.
-chorus (no controls, just on or off) not bad sounding, a very subtle
effect..i believe it was just for the direct signal...
-fuzz (on or off)...this sounded quite square wave-y to me, but was cool
with some outboard reverb...this was also for the direct guitar sound
-VCA ..this was cool for volume envelop changes....

There were probably a few more little things, but I can't seem to remember
this late at night. They originally went for about $1000, mine was bought
from my guitar teacher in the mid 80's for about $400, The overall sound
reminded me of a Minimoog through a distortion pedal, not clean enough to
simulate a bass, and since it was monophonic, it did cool mistracking sounds
quite well. I could also get a pretty good Belew-like elephantine scream out
of it. The unit was black, with white lines and legends, and had direct and
synth out. Hate to think what its worth today..if anyone needs more info or
has questions, let me know.
Dave Eichenberger


*********************************************************************
'Future Perfect' - progressive art music - visit our website at:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082




From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 02:19:02 1998
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Matthias:

if you are going to try to make a killing on this, now is a good time to fix
it. this is one of two units that EH has scheduled for reissue (which will
probably adversely impact the used market price).

Tom


At 03:07 PM 1/15/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Matthias Grob said:
>
>> Someone gave me one that does not work. If its value is high, it might
>> motivate me to fix it.
>> 
>> How much is the offer for a perfectly working one?
>> 
>> Matthias
>> 
>
>
>I just gave a partially-working one to former listmember Russ Gorton (which
>I bought new in 1981 for about $200).  The street price in the US is as
>much as $600 per--Bog knows why.  Apart from some groovy envelope
>filtering, it's basically a crappy octaver and crappy fuzz with a noisy
>footswitch.  
>
>Scott
>
>
>
>
Tom Lambrecht  hideo@concentric.net



From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 02:17:56 1998
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From: Adam Levin <alevin@ari.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: CD recorders
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On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Jim Coker wrote:

> Something you might want to keep in mind is the cost of CD-RW blanks,
> which I think are $10 or more, whereas you can get blank CD-Rs for
> $2.50 in qty of 50 or more (with a jewel box).  I got a Sony 2x recorder
> from APS (w/ Toast) for $400 a couple months ago and it works
> great.

Most (if not all) CD-RW drives will write both types of media, but
obviously the RW ability will only work on the RW media. 

Prices on the CDR media are still dropping. I bought a 10 pack of generic
unlabeled discs with jewel cases for $20 at Best Buy when I bought my
drive last week.


-Adam

---
       "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue,
       out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one 
                           becomes a Hearer."
                           - Chandrakirti



From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 02:17:57 1998
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In a message dated 1/15/98 11:06:57 AM, you wrote:

>My name is Tom Roady. I am a studio percussionist in Nashville Tn. 

Wow! I'm mostly a lurker here (my Echoplex is on order) and a lot of the
people here tend to be guitar-oriented. I would love to hear about the uses a
percussionist has for the Echoplex! Would you please elaborate?

Thanks,

Marshall


From ???@??? Sat Jan 17 02:53:43 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 17 02:21:13 1998
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Subject: Re: Looping with sequencers..
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 10:32:44 -0000
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From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
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>does anyone use a sequencer for looping???? I do, and i'm wondering where
>the line is, i mean, most of our delays are digital, too...hmmmm.
>
>I just hit record (like kicking on one of my delays) on a roland msq100 or
>700, play a live, usually spontaneous idea till i want..(end of loop) -
>then i hit stop and play, then let the material loop once or
>indefinitely....
>
>is it looping??? i'd like to hear some thoughts on that, some
>opinions...maybe i've missed it, but haven't heard of anyone using this
>tool, sequencers have a bad name due to madonna and certain rush songs on
>stage, etc

I started doing this recently, that is, using a sequencer for looping.  
It's a good way to build up drum tracks, particularly if you're not a 
drummer.  You're limited as to the number of notes you can have present 
(well, I guess you always are), since you have to have enough voices on 
your sound module to play back all your midi loopage, so things might not 
get as dense as with a delay recording the actual audio, but the 
advantages of being to sync, edit, and store the loops definitely makes 
it worthwhile.

Travis Hartnett


From ???@??? Sat Jan 17 02:53:38 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 17 01:52:42 1998
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Subject: Re: Data compression, twitch factors, knee jerks and God
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 11:03:01 -0000
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>>All compression, analog or digital, represents a loss of information.
>>All professional recordings are compressed in several ways before the
>>final product reaches the consumer.  Despite this, music still finds its
>>way into the world.
>
>I don't actually care very much about this particular debate, but this
>sounded a little confused. I suspect you're not actually confused, but
>anyway:
>
>The kind of compression appearing in all those professional recordings is
>dynamic compression, normally inflicted by a box called a compressor.
>Usually rather useful.

You're right in that I'm not confused about the differences between 
computer-file type compression, lossy or otherwise, and analog 
compression, but I do mean that there is a loss of information either 
way.  

When you use an audio compressor, such as a dbx unit, you're discarding 
the dynamic information in the original signal to even out the overall 
level.  This is neither good nor bad, just desirable or undesirable 
depending on the situation.  You gain smoothness while losing touch 
dynamics.  Anyone who's recorded a singer, particularly a singer with 
poor mic technique has discovered that compression can be used to get rid 
of annoying level jumps as the singer's mouth moves closer or further 
from the mic.  Likewise, many a drummer has found the dynamics of their 
playing obliderated by zealous compression and gating of the kit in order 
to give a punchier, constant drum sound.

I also agree that the MD discussion is taking on the "digital vs. analog" 
overtones, but I also don't want to see a very useful technology maligned 
unnecessarily.  Most of the technology I use in looping is 8-10 years 
old.  I'm talking eight and twelve-bit sampling delays, eighties-era 
preamps, sequencing software that runs on a Mac Plus, etc.  I get plenty 
of work done with the old stuff, even with its sonic and design 
limitations, and sometimes because of those limitations, so to see 
someone dismiss MD with "Lossy compression?  I'll have none of it!" 
disturbs me.  

I found an old issue of Musician the other day, and there was an article 
about the advantages and disadvantages of mixing and mastering to DAT.  
Actually, it was more about how DAT was a completely unprofessional 
format which produced results which pained the engineers to discuss.  How 
times change.  Even though there is a movement back to (and some people 
never left) mixing to two-track analog, DAT is accepted as a professional 
option for mixdown.  Now, I'm not saying that MD is a professional mixing 
option, but it's quite definitely a valid tool for home recording, 
despite the compression scheme.

Peace, love, and lots of feedback,

Travis


From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 10:09:41 1998
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Subject: Re: Data compression, twitch factors, knee jerks and God
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Travis said:

>All compression, analog or digital, represents a loss of information.
>All professional recordings are compressed in several ways before the
>final product reaches the consumer.  Despite this, music still finds its
>way into the world.

I don't actually care very much about this particular debate, but this
sounded a little confused. I suspect you're not actually confused, but
anyway:

The kind of compression appearing in all those professional recordings is
dynamic compression, normally inflicted by a box called a compressor.
Usually rather useful.

This is totally different from the sort of compression talked about with
MiniDisc technology. That is data compression, which is used to squeeze the
digitally encoded data into a smaller space. Data compression comes in two
basic flavors, lossless and "lossy." With the lossless type, as you would
expect, you compress it into a smaller space, and then decompress it and
you get exactly the same data you started with. You can only compress
things so far this way.

Lossy compression, which MD uses, takes advantage of deficiencies in human
senses. With audio, your ears are not very good at hearing certain parts of
a complex audio waveform.  "Masking" for example, is a phenomenon where a
dominant frequency will prevent you from hearing slightly higher
frequencies. Lossy compression algorithms look for these situations and
remove them from the audio, which allows the data to be compressed much
smaller. The idea is that it is removing parts you can't hear anyway, to
aid in the compression. When you decompress it, those parts are gone. You
can take this to various extremes to achieve greater amounts of
compression. As you achieve higher data compression ratios, the quality of
the audio continues to degrade and becomes increasingly noticeable to the
listener. I would imagine that MD is well below the point where most people
would notice. On the other hand, anybody can hear the degradation in a
RealAudio file encoded for a 28.8 modem rate.

This sort of compression is also done in the very cheap samplers out from
Boss and Yamaha.

Whether you care about this, is of course up to you.

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com




From ???@??? Fri Jan 16 10:09:50 1998
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does anyone use a sequencer for looping???? I do, and i'm wondering where
the line is, i mean, most of our delays are digital, too...hmmmm.

I just hit record (like kicking on one of my delays) on a roland msq100 or
700, play a live, usually spontaneous idea till i want..(end of loop) -
then i hit stop and play, then let the material loop once or
indefinitely....

is it looping??? i'd like to hear some thoughts on that, some
opinions...maybe i've missed it, but haven't heard of anyone using this
tool, sequencers have a bad name due to madonna and certain rush songs on
stage, etc



From ???@??? Sat Jan 17 00:17:09 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 16 11:04:31 1998
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From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Looping with sequencers..
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At 8:40 AM -0500 1/16/98, Andre Cholmodeley wrote:
>does anyone use a sequencer for looping???? I do, and i'm wondering where
>the line is, i mean, most of our delays are digital, too...hmmmm.
>
>I just hit record (like kicking on one of my delays) on a roland msq100 or
>700, play a live, usually spontaneous idea till i want..(end of loop) -
>then i hit stop and play, then let the material loop once or
>indefinitely....
>
>is it looping??? i'd like to hear some thoughts on that, some
>opinions...maybe i've missed it, but haven't heard of anyone using this
>tool, sequencers have a bad name due to madonna and certain rush songs on
>stage, etc

I think that's looping, but then I'm well known for not being much of a
purist on the subject. I don't think it really matters how the sound
happens to be generated. What difference does it make if it starts out as a
midi event, or audio recorded in digital memory, or a tape loop, or some
big mechanical apparatus, or a turntable, or just your fingers? The
ultimate conceptual loopiness of the end product is the key thing, the
other stuff is just the tools to get there.

The kind of sequencer that records by looping over a pattern, recording
everything played into it while playing what's already there, that sounds
like looping to me! Usually the features aren't very well optimized for the
performance, but it seems like it could work ok.

Another example, I downloaded the Rebirth demo a while back, which is
basically a simulation of 2 TB-303's and a TR-808, with some filtering,
distortion, and delay effects. It has the same basic, stupid kind of
sequencing that those boxes had in their day. And it's great for real-time
looping stuff. (assuming you like the very well-worn sounds that it makes.)
You just start it up and begin adding things to the sequence, taking them
out again, playing with the filters, changing levels, etc. Pretty fun.

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com




From ???@??? Sat Jan 17 00:17:08 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 16 10:52:17 1998
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From: "Sellon, Bob  (Exchange)" <bsellon@lexicon.com>
To: Loopers Delight <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Email Avalanch/routing
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:36:02 -0500
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Does anyone know how to route "Loopers-Delight" email to a particular
folder under Microsoft Exhange (V5.0)? I tried using the Inbox Assistant
but couldn't seem to get it to work. It always seems to look at the
originators address instead of LoopersDelight. The sheer volume of
messages is killing me and I would rather not "unsubscribe" if I can get
the messages sent quietly to my LoopersDelight folder.

Many thanks.


Bob Sellon
Engineer
Lexicon/Stec


From ???@??? Sat Jan 17 00:17:22 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 16 12:46:47 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:32:17 -0500
From: Michael Peters <MPeters@compuserve.com>
Subject: RE: Email Avalanch/routing
Sender: Michael Peters <MPeters@compuserve.com>
To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
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>Does anyone know how to route "Loopers-Delight" 
>email to a particular folder under Microsoft 
>Exhange (V5.0)? I tried using the Inbox Assistant

I haven't managed to install the Inbox Assistant either. Maybe you need to
run your mail client in a network under Exchange Server.

___________
Michael Peters   
        http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters
HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want"
        http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm



From ???@??? Sat Jan 17 00:17:30 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 16 14:33:11 1998
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From: CORROSIVE@aol.com
Message-ID: <980116165907_608065895@mrin52>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:  Re: MicroSynth
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Tom-what's the other EH unit scheduled for re-issue? the 16 sec delay??
when?!! gimme!!


From ???@??? Sat Jan 17 00:17:29 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:00:26 -0500
From: Jeff Duke <jmar@bellsouth.net>
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Organization: Tec Bab Labs
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Subject: Re: Looping with sequencers..
References: <199801161340.IAA16351@shell.monmouth.com>
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Hey ya'll,Interesting thought,one of the most common responses that I get when
I loop live is;where are the tape recorders!Very few people seem to know
anything about the means of achieving the effect of multiple players using
digital delays,let alone sequencers.
My favorite show every year is when my band Techno Babble plays the annual
Jolly Elementery School PTA fundraising event,the kids just seem to accept the
sound on it's own merit and dance to the music with out questioning how it is
being done.Personally
I don't care how either,if it moves me I like it.
Jeff Duke sr.
TecBabLabs;http://members.tripod.com/~dukesr/index.html

Andre Cholmodeley wrote:

> does anyone use a sequencer for looping???? I do, and i'm wondering where
> the line is, i mean, most of our delays are digital, too...hmmmm.
>
> I just hit record (like kicking on one of my delays) on a roland msq100 or
> 700, play a live, usually spontaneous idea till i want..(end of loop) -
> then i hit stop and play, then let the material loop once or
> indefinitely....
>
> is it looping??? i'd like to hear some thoughts on that, some
> opinions...maybe i've missed it, but haven't heard of anyone using this
> tool, sequencers have a bad name due to madonna and certain rush songs on
> stage, etc





From ???@??? Sat Jan 17 00:18:08 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 16 19:50:45 1998
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 22:41:05 GMT
Message-Id: <199801162241.WAA16269@phyleus.interlinx.qc.ca>
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: erich kory <erich@InterLinx.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: Hello...  Hello!
Resent-Message-ID: <"JretpD.A.BGF.jhCw0"@ferret>
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Hey there Corynne,

My history is about the same except i play the cello and have been very
successful at touring here and in Europe with solo concerts using looping as
a base for alot of my compositions-improvizations.....

If you like check out my site at http://kspace.com/kory

i just saw an echoplex for sale yesterday on this chat-email line. if you
have trouble to find it ,let me know.

good luck and have fun!

erich@interlinx.qc.ca
>>
>>	Hello, I've just joined the looper's delight list earlier this week and
>have been listening to some the conversation back and forth.  Now that I
>have some time, I wanted to write and just say "hi".  I've been involved
>with looping for at least seven years now and am glad to have been made
>aware of this list.  I think it can be a wonderful resource...  
>>  My first introduction to loops was from hearing Brian Eno and Robert
>Fripp with Frippertronics.  I'd beeen working with delays before that
>point, however, they were not long enough to do any substancial loops in my
>opinion.  I unfortunately didn't have the money or the sources to find a
>couple of tape machines I could use so, I was still out in the cold...  I
>then heard about the electro-harmonix peddal that had 16 seconds of
>sampling time and was reversable.  From that point on, I was on a quest to
>find a peddal which was afordable and could achieve what I needed.  What I
>found was the PDS8000 from digitech which worked quite nicely for a while
>but did not have the frequency response I was looking for.  I then moved up
>to the RDS8000 which is the rack-mounted version of the same.  It actually
>has a few more features than the peddal...  Oh, by the way, for those who
>aren't familiar with those two things, they had a sampling time of eight
>seconds.  I then heard about the Jam-Man and got one immediately when they
>came out and proceded immediately also to upgrade it fully.  I've used the
>Lexicon ever since and I love it!  I'm currently looking to get an Oberheim
>Echo-plex digital pro.  
>>  Anyway, enough about the gear...  I am currently living in Boulder
>Colorado and don't find to many people here who know much about, or do much
>with looping.  I work in a music store and currently teach guitar there
>also so if there's any place to meet musicians here, I'm there...  If
>there's anyone in my area, please don't hesitate to write me.  I like lots
>of different types of music so I'm open to just about anything...  
>>  Thanks again for the existance of this list, as loopers seem sparce to
>me where ever I am in the country.  It's nice to hear that there is some
>sort of meeting place for us.  I look forward to more interesting e-mail...
>>
>>smiles,
>>
>>Corynne
>>
>>P.S.  Are there any other women on this list?
>
>



From ???@??? Sat Jan 17 00:18:09 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 16 20:05:14 1998
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From: erich kory <erich@InterLinx.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: Hello...  Hello!...hello!!
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now that i see that everyone gets these messages........

i will introduce myself.

i play electric cello and have been an addict of many things, the only
remaining being looping.  Started about 12 years ago with the digitech
double footpedals and now with a combination of jamman and echoplex.

Hooked up with MoszŽ Loredo- bass and sampling freak (made demo for the Akai
samplers)  and we're having some hot times up here in cold Quebec!

Love to hook up with any recording projects that might need a little spice.
i've been doing session work for many years and can play with just about
anything. 

luv to all you crazy Loopers

erich



From ???@??? Sat Jan 17 00:18:15 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 16 22:18:32 1998
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From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
Subject: &nbsp
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what does "&nbsp" mean?
Does the guy type that in or is it some code incompatibility thing?




From ???@??? Sat Jan 17 02:53:38 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 17 01:39:15 1998
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From: JFOG10 <JFOG10@aol.com>
Message-ID: <45281c50.34c07aea@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 04:33:28 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: JamMan For Sale!!!!
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
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Well....I debated whether or not to post this here, as I don't want to fill
this list with commercial crap.....but I figured you folks would want to know
about this....if this offends....I apologize...and understand
Well....it's time for me to move on...I like my Jamman and everything, but am
saving for an echoplex......so.....THIS is the one you've been looking for!!!!
      Full 32 second memory loaded Jamman with pedal, adaptor and manual, near
perfect condition ( may have a TINY scratch when I take it out of
rack)....hardly used.....
         Best Offer over $300(plus shipping from Philadelphia)
              Thanks!!!!!
                            JIM


From ???@??? Sat Jan 17 02:53:43 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 17 02:19:57 1998
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Leonardo Cavallo <LEO@DINONET.IT>
Subject: Re: Looping with sequencers..
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:22:19 +0100
Message-ID: <19980117102218921.AAA182@Default>
Resent-Message-ID: <"pnm1SB.A.dqB.-RIw0"@ferret>
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>Another example, I downloaded the Rebirth demo a while back, which is
>basically a simulation of 2 TB-303's and a TR-808, with some filtering,
>distortion, and delay effects. It has the same basic, stupid kind of
>sequencing that those boxes had in their day. And it's great for real-time
>looping stuff. (assuming you like the very well-worn sounds that it makes.)
>You just start it up and begin adding things to the sequence, taking them
>out again, playing with the filters, changing levels, etc. Pretty fun.
>
>kim

HI Kim

Try Seq 303 (if you have a PC) for more filters and infinite sounds. I
discovered the prog last night and it's a killer. E-mail privately if you're
interested.

ciao
leo



From ???@??? Sat Jan 17 16:07:08 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 17 03:05:27 1998
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&nbsp is an escape for "" in html isn't it?

Matthias Grob wrote:

> what does "&nbsp" mean?
> Does the guy type that in or is it some code incompatibility thing?





From ???@??? Sat Jan 17 16:07:13 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 17 03:25:37 1998
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 06:34:16 -0500
From: Jeff Duke <jmar@bellsouth.net>
Reply-To: jmar@bellsouth.net
Organization: Tec Bab Labs
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Amen brother,thats the one I'm waiting for,I had one once,but it died!For
all it's limitations it's the Holy Grail of delay's.J.D.
CORROSIVE@aol.com wrote:

> Tom-what's the other EH unit scheduled for re-issue? the 16 sec delay??
> when?!! gimme!!





From ???@??? Sat Jan 17 16:07:17 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 17 05:22:20 1998
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At 06:12 AM 1/17/98 -0500, you wrote:
>&nbsp is an escape for "" in html isn't it?
>
>Matthias Grob wrote:
>
>> what does "&nbsp" mean?
>> Does the guy type that in or is it some code incompatibility thing?
>
>

Nope.  It is a non-breaking space.
If not used properly, the &nbsp can come through uninterpretted.
Quite often HTML escape codes need to be terminated with a semi-colon.
For example, &nbspHello would appear just like that.  It should be
coded as &nbsp;Hello.
&quot is the " character.


From ???@??? Sat Jan 17 16:07:19 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 17 05:51:41 1998
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Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D. wrote:

> >>does anyone use a sequencer for looping???? I do, and i'm wondering
> where
> >>the line is, i mean, most of our delays are digital, too...hmmmm.
>  

Yes I use a sequencer (the on board sequencer on my Ensonic TS-10
keyboard) a lot for determining the length of my loops.  The Lexicon
JamMan (and I'm sure others) will use the midi clock to determine the
end of the loop once you've manually started it.  Aside from a few
quirks, it works really well.  Due to a small "popping" problem that
happens at the start/end of the loop due to midi jitter, I'm
reconfiguring my rig so that my synth recieves sync from my JamMan after
I start a loop.  I've done this before and it works well, but you need
to be aware of the tempo and loop length if you don't want some crazy
tempo surprises.

 -- --
Mark
 

@
¿??? IAMNOTHERE
c



From ???@??? Sat Jan 17 16:08:08 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 17 15:41:21 1998
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From: breakz@hom.net (David Ferguson)
Subject: Re: Roland Paraphonic 505 in need of love... please re:
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analogue@hyperreal.org

Email these folks, they can help!
Daniel

>hello everybody,
>    what's happenin'...
>        I'm a relatively new addition to the loop-grooop and I'm in need
>of a synth-oriented individual to assist me in my synth education.  Let
>me tell-ya about my stress:
>
>        A couple of years ago my brother gave me an analogue
>synth(Roland Paraphonic 505) for my birthday.  I thought that was pretty
>cool of him.  I haven't stopped playing it since.  I think this thing
>was built in '72, which is four years before I even came into
>existence...
>                    so,
>
>        somewhere along the line I got a girlfriend.....  I thought she
>was pretty cool too, until she dumped (of all things) jack and coke (I
>guess??) on that same very keyboard I loved so much....
>
>                    now,
>
>        I've still got the keyboard, got rid of the girlfriend, but
>things still don't feel the same...
>
>     My hope is that I will have the good fortune of becoming acquainted
>with a "kindred soul" who will happily guide my blind and stumbling 21
>year old body through the mind bending world of synth repair and
>maintenance...
>
>The list of actual "minor" problems is somewhat staggerring, so I won't
>bother everyone with the complete stress.  However, if anyone is
>familiar with this synth and how to make keys stop sticking and knobs
>stop making noise e-mail me and I'll be glad to hand out small easily
>handled dosages of synth-stress...
>
>help...
>
>innerspace@mediaone.net
>
><HTML>
>hello everybody,
><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; what's happenin'...
><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm a relatively new addition
>to the loop-grooop and I'm in need of a <I>synth-oriented individual</I>
>to assist me in my synth education.&nbsp; Let me tell-ya about my stress:
>
><P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; A couple of years ago my
>brother gave me an analogue synth(Roland Paraphonic 505) for my birthday.&nbsp;
>I thought that was pretty cool of him.&nbsp; I haven't stopped playing
>it since.&nbsp; I think this thing was built in '72, which is four years
>before I even came into existence...
><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp
>;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
>so,
>
><P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; somewhere along the line
>I got a girlfriend.....&nbsp; I thought she was pretty cool too, until
>she dumped (of all things) jack and coke (I guess??) on that same very
>keyboard I loved so much....
>
><P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
>now,
>
><P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I've still got the keyboard,
>got rid of the girlfriend, but things still don't feel the same...
>
><P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; My hope is that I will have the good fortune
>of becoming acquainted with a "kindred soul" who will happily guide my
>blind and stumbling 21 year old body through the mind bending world of
>synth repair and maintenance...
>
><P>The list of actual "minor" problems is somewhat staggerring, so I won't
>bother everyone with the complete stress.&nbsp; However, if anyone is familiar
>with this synth and how to make keys stop sticking and knobs stop making
>noise e-mail me and I'll be glad to hand out small easily handled dosages
>of synth-stress...
>
><P>help...
><BR>&nbsp;
><ADDRESS>
><U><FONT COLOR="#3333FF">innerspace@mediaone.net</FONT></U></ADDRESS>
></HTML>




From ???@??? Sat Jan 17 16:07:33 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 17 09:37:43 1998
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From: PMimlitsch <PMimlitsch@aol.com>
Message-ID: <64465949.34c0ea25@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:28:03 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:  JamMan For Sale!!!!
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In a message dated 1/17/98 4:37:41 AM, you wrote:

<<Well....I debated whether or not to post this here, as I don't want to fill
this list with commercial crap.....but I figured you folks would want to know
about this....if this offends....I apologize...and understand
Well....it's time for me to move on...I like my Jamman and everything, but am
saving for an echoplex......so.....THIS is the one you've been looking for!!!!
      Full 32 second memory loaded Jamman with pedal, adaptor and manual, near
perfect condition ( may have a TINY scratch when I take it out of
rack)....hardly used.....>>

DAMN!!! (or "Gosh Darn" for the PG crowd).  Just picked up another one a
couple weeks ago- mint condition/good price but no 32 sec upgrade.  I'll
spread the word but I would guess that by the time you read this you would
have already had it sold-hot item.  BTW- How's it going? - Paul


From ???@??? Sat Jan 17 16:07:55 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 17 12:36:31 1998
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:43:31 -0700
From: William Moyer <vargo2muse@earthlink.net>
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Looping with sequencers..
References: <3.0.1.16.19980117124845.0e975676@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk>
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Don't have a Roland MC50 seq., but if its any thing like my computer 
seq., setting the track length before hand,  and using an overdub 
rather than replace mode should work, particularly if it already has 
something to fucntion as a click, if you care.
ciao, Bill


From ???@??? Sat Jan 17 16:07:11 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 17 03:13:56 1998
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:48:45
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." <pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Looping with sequencers..
In-Reply-To: <199801161632.IAA08526@scv3.apple.com>
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>>does anyone use a sequencer for looping???? I do, and i'm wondering where
>>the line is, i mean, most of our delays are digital, too...hmmmm.


I used to use the looping sorta feature on my Roland MC50 (mk1) - hit
record, play a few notes, then hit a few buttons together and it loops.
Can't layer (that I can recall).

Michael





From ???@??? Sat Jan 17 16:07:11 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 17 03:15:45 1998
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:50:57
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." <pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Roland ME30
In-Reply-To: <000090C6.4007@poyry.com.br>
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I know this has been discussed a while ago, but a quick sift through the
archives has proven fruitless - did anybody actually try using the Phrase
Sample feature on the Boss ME30?  I see that they're actually using the
word "loop" in their webpage...

Michael 



From ???@??? Sat Jan 17 16:07:58 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 17 14:15:16 1998
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:07:59 -0500
From: innerspace@mediaone.net
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<html><HTML>
hello everybody,
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; what's happenin'...
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm a relatively new addition
to the loop-grooop and I'm in need of a <I>synth-oriented individual</I>
to assist me in my synth education.&nbsp; Let me tell-ya about my stress:

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; A couple of years ago my
brother gave me an analogue synth(Roland Paraphonic 505) for my birthday.&nbsp;
I thought that was pretty cool of him.&nbsp; I haven't stopped playing
it since.&nbsp; I think this thing was built in '72, which is four years
before I even came into existence...
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
so,

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; somewhere along the line
I got a girlfriend.....&nbsp; I thought she was pretty cool too, until
she dumped (of all things) jack and coke (I guess??) on that same very
keyboard I loved so much....

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
now,

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I've still got the keyboard,
got rid of the girlfriend, but things still don't feel the same...

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; My hope is that I will have the good fortune
of becoming acquainted with a "kindred soul" who will happily guide my
blind and stumbling 21 year old body through the mind bending world of
synth repair and maintenance...

<P>The list of actual "minor" problems is somewhat staggerring, so I won't
bother everyone with the complete stress.&nbsp; However, if anyone is familiar
with this synth and how to make keys stop sticking and knobs stop making
noise e-mail me and I'll be glad to hand out small easily handled dosages
of synth-stress...

<P>help...
<BR>&nbsp;
<ADDRESS>
<U><FONT COLOR="#3333FF">innerspace@mediaone.net</FONT></U></ADDRESS>
</HTML>

</html>

From ???@??? Sat Jan 17 16:08:03 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 17 15:16:04 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 00:09:40 +0100
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Le Quan Ninh <ninh@musique.net>
Subject: Echoplex functions ?
Resent-Message-ID: <"FMaOgC.A.b-D.JqTw0"@ferret>
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Hi,

I must confess that I have no experience in using loopers... My questions are :


Is the Echoplex allowing to record different loops separately which can be
triggered, stopped and retriggered separately ?

If not, are there other available machines more powerful in this special
function ?

Thanks in advance !

Ninh




From ???@??? Sat Jan 17 17:02:12 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 17 16:40:23 1998
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 16:36:06 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Echoplex functions ?
Resent-Message-ID: <"tX0s0C.A.LBC.r5Uw0"@ferret>
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At 12:09 AM +0100 1/18/98, Le Quan Ninh wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I must confess that I have no experience in using loopers... My questions
>are :
>
>
>Is the Echoplex allowing to record different loops separately which can be
>triggered, stopped and retriggered separately ?

yes, the Echoplex can have nine separate loops in memory, which can all be
triggered, retriggered etc. like with a sampler. When triggering with midi
you have velocity sensitivity and several different types of triggering
options. There are also copy, control, and sync options for multiple loops
that are very useful for performing with them. It is effectively
monophonic, so only one loop plays at a time. Unlike a typical sampler
though, the functions like overdub, multiply, and copy let you add things
to the loop in real time in such a way that you get a sort of limited
polyphonic effect. On most samplers, overdubbing in real-time is either not
available or very difficult, which is why looping devices like jamman,
echoplex, boomerang, etc are very popular for performance applications.


kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com




From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 10:07:37 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan 18 19:04:40 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 20:07:16 +0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: "[ C H R I S ]" <chrisone@mnl.sequel.net>
Subject: Looping with sequencers..    
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I don't have that much harware but I have the software. I use CoolEdit to
edit, chop and layer my sounds. I don't have a midi connection, so I use
FasttrackerII to sequence my loops. Does anybdy else on this list use
Trackers/MOD's? They are great if you don't really have the cash for equipmet.

For other software Synthesis, check out SubSynth, Vaz, Orangtor, Alcomp and
Defractor.

C H R I S

"If I get one more person who comes to me and complain about that computer
music has no soul I will be furious!"  

							- Bjork


From ???@??? Sun Jan 18 13:55:54 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan 18 07:09:08 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 10:10:29 -0500
From: david friday <musfri@umich.edu>
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Subject: Re: Echoplex 5.0 upgrade
References: <347BB282.59E9@bway.net>
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dmgraph wrote:

> Does anyone have precise details concerning the Echoplex 5.0 upgrade?
> Pat Murphy at Oberheim told me they are about to burn the ROMs and that
> they should be available in a couple of weeks for $45.  At the moment
> I'm most concerned about enhanced sync-from-MIDI-clock capabilities.
> Kim?



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From ???@??? Sun Jan 18 13:56:11 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan 18 09:01:42 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:52:22 -0500
From: R & T Cummings <R_T_Cummings@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Looping with sequencers..
Sender: R & T Cummings <R_T_Cummings@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Message-ID: <199801181152_MC2-2FC4-17BD@compuserve.com>
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>>Another example, I downloaded the Rebirth demo a while back, which is
>>basically a simulation of 2 TB-303's and a TR-808, with some filtering,
>>distortion, and delay effects. It has the same basic, stupid kind of
>>sequencing that those boxes had in their day. And it's great for
real-time
>>looping stuff. (assuming you like the very well-worn sounds that it
makes.)
>>You just start it up and begin adding things to the sequence, taking them
>>out again, playing with the filters, changing levels, etc. Pretty fun.
>>
>>kim

>HI Kim

>Try Seq 303 (if you have a PC) for more filters and infinite sounds. I
>discovered the prog last night and it's a killer. E-mail privately if
you're
>interested.

Hello loopers, I found found another great toy out there - a TB-303 analog
syth 
emulator. One of the cool things about this one is that is works in
real-time 
(i.e. the oscillator, filter parameters etc. can be changed in real-time
without a sound 
delay), which isn't usually the case with PC synthies.
Neddless to say, I've been skipping sleep the last few days ;-)

This puppy is called VAZ (for PC) and a freeware version is available at

http://www.software-technology.com

The full version (VAZ plus - which I haven't bought yet) offers multimode
filter, 
portamento, ring modulator, up to 8 sequencer patterns, patch storage and 
even polyphony - sounds like even less sleep...

... and I'm not plugging for them

Talk to youse all later....



From ???@??? Sun Jan 18 13:56:10 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan 18 09:01:31 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:52:26 -0500
From: R & T Cummings <R_T_Cummings@compuserve.com>
Subject: Looking for a compressor
Sender: R & T Cummings <R_T_Cummings@compuserve.com>
To: Loopers Delight <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Message-ID: <199801181152_MC2-2FC4-17C0@compuserve.com>
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Hello loopers, I'm *actually* looking for a suitable compressor for 
my drum'n'percussion loops (despite the recent threads on "lossy 
compression" etc.). My goal is to even out some of my percussion 
loops involving varying sound levels (e.g. shakers with cowbells). 
I suppose that having better microphone technique could also 
solve some of these *level* problems but as everyone knows, 
things aren't always so controllable (i.e. self-control) under *live* 
conditions!

I know that the dbx 166A is considered to be somewhat of a classic 
device - but does anybody know about the new dbx 266? I've also 
heard about a 4-channel compressor from Behringer but somebody 
I know once made disparaging remarks about that company's 
products? Anybody know better?

Thanks in advance to anybody who can help me :-)

And as they say here in Germany, 
Tschuess

R_T_Cummings@compuserve.com


From ???@??? Sun Jan 18 13:56:10 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:52:37 -0500
From: R & T Cummings <R_T_Cummings@compuserve.com>
Subject: Who wants to play a gig with Fripp/Belew?
Sender: R & T Cummings <R_T_Cummings@compuserve.com>
To: Loopers Delight <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
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How's this all you Tennesee loopers, I received this yesterday on the 
John Zorn list:

>Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:14:50 -0600
>From: Christopher John Moon <anhedonia@mindspring.com>
>Subject: Anyone wanna play with Fripp/Belew??

>Hey,

>Does anyone know of any artists who would be interested in playing a show
>headlined by a new Robert Fripp/Adrian Belew project in Nashville the week
>of Feb. 18-20...it's part of NEA (Nashville's version of CMJ, SXSW,
etc...).  

>Email me with any ideas.  Thanks,

>Christopher Moon

Now goferit!


From ???@??? Sun Jan 18 13:56:19 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan 18 12:46:12 1998
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 13:19:29
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Scott <tanelorn@dimensional.com>
Subject: Re: Looking for a compressor
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At 11:52 1/18/98 -0500, R_T_Cummings wrote:

>I know that the dbx 166A is considered to be somewhat of a classic 
>device - but does anybody know about the new dbx 266? I've also 
>heard about a 4-channel compressor from Behringer but somebody 
>I know once made disparaging remarks about that company's 
>products? Anybody know better?

I think the Behringer MDX2100 is great compressor--enough control over the
compression that you don't have to overdo it (an all-too-common compressor
sin) to get good results, and it's very quiet.  (I haven't heard the 2400,
which is what you're describing.)  

As for Behringer controversy, they did get in some serious legal trouble
with both Mackie and Aphex for design ripoffs--I won't go into the legal
and ethical quandaries here.  I'd offer that they're like most companies:
some good products, some bad products, many quiet afficionados, and some
loud enemies.  Assuming the warranty is solid (I think it's 5 years), pop
down to the local music shop and let your ears decide.

Scott




From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 22:02:42 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 10:18:49 1998
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To: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Echoplex 5.0 upgrade
Resent-Message-ID: <"XFY8eB.A.vyC.Nb5w0"@ferret>
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At 10:10 AM -0500 1/18/98, david friday wrote:
>dmgraph wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have precise details concerning the Echoplex 5.0 upgrade?
>> Pat Murphy at Oberheim told me they are about to burn the ROMs and that
>> they should be available in a couple of weeks for $45.  At the moment
>> I'm most concerned about enhanced sync-from-MIDI-clock capabilities.
>> Kim?

info on the upgrade is on the Looper's Delight site:

http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/echoplex/LoopIII_v5.html

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com




From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 10:07:56 1998
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From: Laurie Hatch <lahatch@dnai.com>
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Subject: RE: Hello...  
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 00:10:58 -0800
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>From Corynne:
>Hello, I've just joined the looper's delight list earlier this week...[snip]

Welcome abroad! (oops... aboard) .  I just signed on a few months ago, myself.

>I'm currently looking to get an Oberheim Echo-plex digital pro.

It's like having a beige '56 Jag XK-120 with a warp drive retrofit docked right 
there in your rack.  Sweeeeet.

>P.S.  Are there any other women on this list?

Yup.    ;^)=8=<==

laurie


>From lists@slip.net Mon Jan 19 00:55:16 1998

From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 10:07:57 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 00:55:16 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:50:53 +0000
From: Os <os@scee.sony.co.uk>
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Sellon, Bob (Exchange) wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know how to route "Loopers-Delight" email to a particular
> folder under Microsoft Exhange (V5.0)? I tried using the Inbox Assistant
> but couldn't seem to get it to work. It always seems to look at the
> originators address instead of LoopersDelight. The sheer volume of
> messages is killing me and I would rather not "unsubscribe" if I can get
> the messages sent quietly to my LoopersDelight folder.
> 
> Many thanks.
> 
> Bob Sellon
> Engineer
> Lexicon/Stec

This is dead easy with Netscape Communicator.

Though it might not help you to know that.

-- 
Os
os@millennium.co.uk
http://webworlds.net/os/


From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 10:08:52 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 07:32:52 1998
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I have a Behringer Composer stereo gate/limiter/compressor, and I think
that it works fairly well, esp for the price.


Trevor


From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 10:08:02 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:05:16 +0100
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Le Quan Ninh <ninh@musique.net>
Subject: Re: Echoplex functions ?
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>yes, the Echoplex can have nine separate loops in memory, which can all be
>triggered, retriggered etc. like with a sampler. When triggering with midi
>you have velocity sensitivity and several different types of triggering
>options. There are also copy, control, and sync options for multiple loops
>that are very useful for performing with them. It is effectively
>monophonic, so only one loop plays at a time.

Hum... but is there any other machine as flexible as the Echoplex which
allows a real polyphonic process ?


__________________________________________
              Le Quan Ninh
            ninh@musique.net
      http://www.musique.net/ninh/
__________________________________________





From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 22:02:47 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 11:20:11 1998
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Subject: Re:  Re: Echoplex functions ?
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 13:09:10 -0000
x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com
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From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
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>Hey thanks for that info...I can't believe you can only play one loop at a
>time-bummer. I'm a drummer/perc. and need to play multiple loops
>simultaneously, so, I guess I'll continue my search for a Jam Man.

I didn't think that the JamMan would allow you to play multiple loops 
simultaneously.  For the oft-requested feature of multiple loops playing 
at the same time with controllable levels, I think you need multiple 
looping devices and a mixer.

Travis Hartnett


From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 10:08:41 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 06:27:45 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:20:23 +0000
From: Malhomme Olivier <malhomme@infobiogen.fr>
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Organization: I P L
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There is not that much difference between these two different events
that share the same name. In audio compression you loose clearly some
information. As it being useful... Ours ears are educated with years of
records highly compressed  to have a max level. It is just a ridiculous
race for more Db in the end, to be as often as possible near the max.
Using compression on a classicial recording, where it is more the
quality of the take that makes it (apart from the talent of the
musicians, of course) would be stupid and sense less.
By the smae way, a lot of data-compression is being used more and more
when you record at a 48 khz sample rate and using 24 bit a/d converters.
There are more and more -in high end products- recording with new 24
bit/96 khz converters. It requires a very nasty data compression before
the product reach you...

Olivier Malhomme



From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 22:03:06 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 12:33:33 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:23:05 GMT
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From: erich kory <erich@InterLinx.qc.ca>
Subject: Re:  Re: Echoplex functions ?
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At 01:48 PM 1/19/98 EST, you wrote:
>Hey thanks for that info...I can't believe you can only play one loop at a
>time-bummer. I'm a drummer/perc. and need to play multiple loops
>simultaneously, so, I guess I'll continue my search for a Jam Man.
>
>								Gratefully,
>									Todd
You can the same as Jamman. In overdub mode. Play one loop, hit the overdub,
then play over it.  It's all recorded.
erich



From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 10:08:53 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 07:33:14 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:26:22 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: "Rich Lamphear" <rlamphear@hbsp.harvard.edu>
Subject: New to looping/processing
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Hi,
I'm an acoustic guitarist/singer/composer and I'm getting interested in the
concept of looping and processing the acoustic guitar.  I'm intrigued with
the idea of extending my solo guitar and voice concept to incorporate new
sounds, textures, and rhythms via electronics.

I've got a little money to throw at this (~$1500) and I'd like some advice
on how I might best spend the money.

My idea is to install a decent quality pickup on my acoustic, something
that would maintain a reasonable amount of the acoustic guitar timbre
before sending it to processing.  I've heard good things about the Sunrise
and McIntyre pickups for this type of application.

The Echoplex Digital Pro seems the clear choice for a looper.  Has
availability of these improved lately?  (sorry if it's a faq, just joined
the list).  I did phone Thoroughbred Music and they had three in stock, but
no pedalboards.

In addition, I'd like a multifx box to do standard digital processing for
both the guitar and the voice.  My main question revolves around the issue
of stereo processing.  Do you really need 2 Echoplexes to get a decent
stereo sound happening?  Do most people running stereo process first (add
reverb, flange, etc.) and then go into 2 Echoplexes?  Or do people loop
first and then send the mono looped signal into a stereo processor and
output from there?

My choices (for around $1500) seem to be:
1) Echoplex mono into good quality multifx to stereo output.
2) El cheapo multifx stereo output into 2 Echoplexes operating in sync.

Any advice to help me think about this would be much appreciated.  It sure
would be great to be able to do both the processing and looping in a single
box, but I don't think anything like that's on the market....correct?

thanks,
Rich




From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 10:08:55 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 07:41:21 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:36:08 -0600
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Pat Murphy <pmurphy@gibson.com>
Subject: Echoplex Upgrades 
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Loopers
All upgrades that were paid for have been shipped as of last Friday.
Loop On-
Pat Murphy


From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 10:08:56 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 07:45:11 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:39:00 -0600 (CST)
From: Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: New to looping/processing
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980119102622.00704d2c@mail1.hbsp.harvard.edu>
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My first suggestion for acoustic looping is, GET GOOD PICKUPS!!!  Your
looping tone is going to be no better than its raw tone.

I have a Fishman Blender system that uses a piezo bridge pickup in
combination with an internal condenser microphone.  It's very good at
sounding similar to an acoustic guitar.  Piezo pickups alone are terrible,
i think.  They're missing "air".

-dave

Practice beautiful randomness and act kind of senseless.
<dstagner@icarus.net>



From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 22:02:48 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 11:20:55 1998
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From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle)
Subject: Re[2]: New to looping/processing
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Dave Stagner wrote...

>My first suggestion for acoustic looping is, GET GOOD PICKUPS!!!  Your
>looping tone is going to be no better than its raw tone.

Good advice!

>I have a Fishman Blender system that uses a piezo bridge pickup in
>combination with an internal condenser microphone.  It's very good at
>sounding similar to an acoustic guitar.  Piezo pickups alone are terrible,
>i think.  They're missing "air".

That said... I have the same setup in a Taylor 812c. I've been "relatively" 
happy with the setup, but after having it for a couple of years, I've been able 
to A/B it with many external mics as well as soundhole pickup combos. The 
soundhole pickups physically occupy a spot I'd rather have empty. The pickups 
also sound sort of electric and don't pickup enough 'wood'. 

I'm beginning to feel that I might do well to place a McIntyre in various 
locations inside the body (starting under the treble side of the bridge plate) 
and see if it would be a suitable or better source than the Crown mini condenser
mic. The mic does add 'air' and I really dislike the piezo alone, even if it's 
eq'ed well. I'd probably check out the new B-Band undersaddle pickup with a 
McIntyre and see how the combo works.

I've also heard great results from the Trance Audio 'Acoustic Lens' soundboard 
pickups although I've played a couple guitars with those installed which really 
felt pretty dead and weighty. (Maybe not enough high end sparkle). I played Jeff
Traugott's home guitar with Trance in it though and it kicked my Taylor right 
out of the room!

-Miko




From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 10:09:00 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 08:25:29 1998
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From: Tom Spaulding <tspauldi@gibson.com>
Subject: Re: New to looping/processing
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Rich-

Footswitches are on the way to Thoroughbred and other reputable stocking
Oberheim dealers. (Reputable Stockings? Sounds like a Zappa tune...) I
would recommend getting an EDP, natch, and both Thoroughbred
(813-889-3874)and Bananas at Large (415-457-7600 ask for Rick)are excellent
sources for all things OB. Enjoy!!

Tom Spaulding
Oberheim Product Manager
1818 Elm Hill Pike
Nashville, TN  37210
800-777-0795 



At 09:26 AM 1/19/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Hi,
>I'm an acoustic guitarist/singer/composer and I'm getting interested in the
>concept of looping and processing the acoustic guitar.  I'm intrigued with
>the idea of extending my solo guitar and voice concept to incorporate new
>sounds, textures, and rhythms via electronics.
>
>I've got a little money to throw at this (~$1500) and I'd like some advice
>on how I might best spend the money.
>
>My idea is to install a decent quality pickup on my acoustic, something
>that would maintain a reasonable amount of the acoustic guitar timbre
>before sending it to processing.  I've heard good things about the Sunrise
>and McIntyre pickups for this type of application.
>
>The Echoplex Digital Pro seems the clear choice for a looper.  Has
>availability of these improved lately?  (sorry if it's a faq, just joined
>the list).  I did phone Thoroughbred Music and they had three in stock, but
>no pedalboards.
>
>In addition, I'd like a multifx box to do standard digital processing for
>both the guitar and the voice.  My main question revolves around the issue
>of stereo processing.  Do you really need 2 Echoplexes to get a decent
>stereo sound happening?  Do most people running stereo process first (add
>reverb, flange, etc.) and then go into 2 Echoplexes?  Or do people loop
>first and then send the mono looped signal into a stereo processor and
>output from there?
>
>My choices (for around $1500) seem to be:
>1) Echoplex mono into good quality multifx to stereo output.
>2) El cheapo multifx stereo output into 2 Echoplexes operating in sync.
>
>Any advice to help me think about this would be much appreciated.  It sure
>would be great to be able to do both the processing and looping in a single
>box, but I don't think anything like that's on the market....correct?
>
>thanks,
>Rich
>
>
>
>
>


From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 10:09:02 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 08:31:44 1998
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Message-Id: <199801191627.JAA20173@hyper.dimensional.com>
From: "Scott Bullerwell" <tanelorn@dimensional.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Re:compression
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:21:16 -0700
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[computer types: this is an intentionally simplified explanation of data
compression.  please don't castigate me for bitwise imprecision.  otherwise
feel free to hate me for the mostly non-looping content!]

Malhomme Olivier writes:

> There is not that much difference between these two different events
> that share the same name. In audio compression you loose clearly some
> information.

Hate to further beat a dead horse here, but there is indeed that much
difference between data compression and audio compression: _not all data
compression is lossy_ (though it is on some things, like mini-disc
recorders).  Think of it this way: the digital file (whether it's a CD or a
loop in the RAM of yer stylin' 'Plex Pro) is merely strings of zeroes and
ones.  Each of those zeroes and ones takes up file space.  Let's say
there's a particular file that looks like this:

101010111101101101101101111101101101010101110110110101101101

There's 60 characters in that file.  Let's say storage space is at a
premium so we want to shrink it down for storage.  If you noticed, there's
lots of repeated characters--pairs of "1"s for example.  With a compression
scheme, we can just tell the storage device that when it sees two "1"s in
succession, it should write an "M" character.  (A smarter compression
scheme would write "M" when it sees "101" but lets say we're not the best
software engineers) So now we have:

101010MM0M0M0M0M0MM10M0M0101010M10M0M010M0M01

That file contains exactly the same information as the first one, but it's
only 45 characters long, yielding a compression rate of 25%.  When we want
to read the file (to play it back, in the case of an audio file) the D/A
converter just puts "11" where it sees "M" and hey presto!  

101010111101101101101101111101101101010101110110110101101101

It's EXACTLY THE SAME as the original program content.  

We could even add another stage of compression where "MO" was replaced with
the character "F" and "10" was replaced with the character "L"

LLLMFFFFFMMLFFLLLMLFFLFF1

Yielding a file that is 25 characters long, etc.

What is happening with data compression is you are trading off CPU time for
storage space.  Since mass storage is pretty cheap, while CPU time is
increasingly at a premium, it's generally not a wise trade-off.  However,
there are specific applications (diskette-style storage media with
significant size limits--small diskette, thus small files) where it's
appropriate.

Cheers,

Scott
tanelorn@dimensional.com






From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 10:09:05 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 08:40:40 1998
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Date: 19 Jan 1998 10:34:41 -0800
From: "Hartnett, Travis" <Hartnett#m#_Travis@msgate.apple.com>
Subject: FS: Vortex $290
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LeXicon VoRTeX

Asking Price: US$290
Condition: Mint
Age: N/A
Description:

       Lexicon Vortex:
       Low noise and lush sounds.(Quality excellent).
       Flange/Chorus/Phase/Vibrato, from subtle to bizarre with no
trace of digital weediness.

       $290 shipped to your door / obo.

Seller: Carl Conti,
E-mail: jgalt@city-net.com
Location: EAST LIBERTY, PA
Post Date: 1/19/98


From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 10:09:07 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 08:50:18 1998
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Date: 19 Jan 1998 10:43:41 -0800
From: "Hartnett, Travis" <Hartnett#m#_Travis@msgate.apple.com>
Subject: FS: Boomerang $275
To: "Loopers Delight postings" <loopers-delight@annihilist.com>
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FS: Boomerang Phrase Sampler-$275

Asking Price: US$275
Condition: Mint
Age: N/A
Description:

       Floor unit- stores up to 30 secs of sampling (60 secs at lower
       fidelity). Start, stop, reverse switches. Absolutely awesome
       for practicing solos- just record a rhythm track and play
       for ever!!

       John Anderson

Seller: John Anderson, 914-268-1881
E-mail: johna@ucs.net
Location: CONGERS, NY
Post Date: 1/18/98


From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 10:09:08 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 08:51:23 1998
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Date: 19 Jan 1998 10:45:07 -0800
From: "Hartnett, Travis" <Hartnett#m#_Travis@msgate.apple.com>
Subject: FS: Digitech Time Machine $100
To: "Loopers Delight postings" <loopers-delight@annihilist.com>
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Digi-Tech 7.6 For Sale or Trade

Asking Price: US$100
Condition: Excellent
Age: N/A
Description:

       Digi-Tech 7.6 digital delay / sampler. One space rack. Great
shape.
       ALL effect or synth trades considered.

Seller: atom smasher riben, 732-251-1810
E-mail: atom@icepop.straight-edge.com
Location: OLD BRIDGE, NJ
Post Date: 1/18/98


From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 22:02:46 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 11:00:14 1998
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From: Takadimi <Takadimi@aol.com>
Message-ID: <68469a3f.34c39ff3@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:48:14 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:  Re: Echoplex functions ?
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Hey thanks for that info...I can't believe you can only play one loop at a
time-bummer. I'm a drummer/perc. and need to play multiple loops
simultaneously, so, I guess I'll continue my search for a Jam Man.

								Gratefully,
									Todd


From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 22:02:50 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 11:20:59 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:10:46 -0500 (EST)
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From: Tom Lambrecht <hideo@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: FS: Digitech Time Machine $100
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gone, man

he's swapping it for some goofy pedal  

and I'm next in line if that goes sour    ;)


slapback on>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Tom

At 10:45 AM 1/19/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Digi-Tech 7.6 For Sale or Trade
>
>Asking Price: US$100
>Condition: Excellent
>Age: N/A
>Description:
>
>       Digi-Tech 7.6 digital delay / sampler. One space rack. Great 
>shape.
>       ALL effect or synth trades considered.
>
>Seller: atom smasher riben, 732-251-1810
>E-mail: atom@icepop.straight-edge.com
>Location: OLD BRIDGE, NJ
>Post Date: 1/18/98
>
>
>
Tom Lambrecht  hideo@concentric.net



From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 22:04:06 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 16:19:52 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:10:56 GMT
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From: erich kory <erich@InterLinx.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: Hello...  Hello!...hello!!
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At 07:05 PM 1/19/98 -0300, you wrote:
>I just downloaded two of your samples, Erich.
>I love Cello, especially when looped, its so monophonic otherwhise :-)
>... and you do it well, elaborate and beautifull, almost classical.
>
>Welcome
>Matthias
>
>Thanx, I did spend 20 years of my life in Classical Music, iguess it has to
come out somewhere!



From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 22:02:52 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 11:34:25 1998
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Sean Echevarria <sechevar@california.com>
Subject: Re: one-function MIDI pedal?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980119194840.1f8f435e@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk>
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Try http://www.midisolutions.com/prodfsw.htm - looks like it, with a
standard footswitch, will do what you want.  Also maybe the Anatek Pocket
Pedal - but recently discontinued and no info anywhere that I can find.  I
just ordered a Pocket Pedal from Washington Music Center - don't know how
many they have left.


At 07:48 PM 1/19/98, you wrote:
>Does anyone know if there exists a single pedal which sends a single
>specific MIDI message?  After thinking about it, the only facility I need



From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 22:03:05 1998
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At 01:48 PM 1/19/98 EST, Takadimi wrote:
>Hey thanks for that info...I can't believe you can only play one loop at a
>time-bummer. I'm a drummer/perc. and need to play multiple loops
>simultaneously, so, I guess I'll continue my search for a Jam Man.
>
>								Gratefully,
>									Todd

JamMan doesn't do that either, and it's multi-loop functions are somewhat
more limited than the echoplex's. The only looper I know of that can sort of
do polyphonic/multi-track loops is the Akai Remix16. With that one though,
you can't play and record at the same time, and there isn't even any
overdubbing. So you have to record all the loops first, and then play them
back simultaneously. There is no single device that really does what you
want. The echoplex is designed so that you can synchronize multiple units
together in various ways, so that one can be used for each track in a
multi-track loop. A lot of people do that for the multi-track effect. I
think you might be able to do this with multiple JamMan's as well, but it
isn't specifically designed for it so it's not so elegant to use.

kim
_______________________________________________________
Kim Flint			408-752-9284
Mpact Systems Engineering	kflint@chromatic.com
Chromatic Research		http://www.chromatic.com



From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 22:03:38 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 15:59:36 1998
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From: Sean Echevarria <sechevar@california.com>
Subject: Re:  Re: Echoplex functions ?
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Wasn't the upgrade that Bob was planning (before Lex axed it) going to
allow simultaneous playback of multiple loops?


At 12:07 PM 1/19/98 -0800, Kim wrote:
>JamMan doesn't do that either, and it's multi-loop functions are somewhat
>more limited than the echoplex's. The only looper I know of that can sort of
>do polyphonic/multi-track loops is the Akai Remix16. With that one though,
>you can't play and record at the same time, and there isn't even any
>overdubbing. So you have to record all the loops first, and then play them
>back simultaneously. There is no single device that really does what you
>want. The echoplex is designed so that you can synchronize multiple units
>together in various ways, so that one can be used for each track in a
>multi-track loop. A lot of people do that for the multi-track effect. I
>think you might be able to do this with multiple JamMan's as well, but it
>isn't specifically designed for it so it's not so elegant to use.
>



From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 22:03:18 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 13:26:19 1998
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From: Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com>
Subject: Re: freedom, syncing and quantization
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At 07:05 PM 1/19/98 -0300, you wrote:
>oh, Kim again... I had no idea you did all this (apart form testing :-)...
>can we hear a result on some CD project or so?
>
>Thanks
>Matthias
>

I'm still experimenting with it and still learning about the music and how I
relate to it and perform it. (and haven't had enough time for that, due to
all the testing.... :-) )  So what I do still sucks hard, basically. When I
do something that only sucks a little, I'd be happy to force you all to
listen to it....

kim
_______________________________________________________
Kim Flint			408-752-9284
Mpact Systems Engineering	kflint@chromatic.com
Chromatic Research		http://www.chromatic.com



From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 22:03:15 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 13:11:38 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:05:15 -0300
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From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
Subject: Re: freedom, syncing and quantization
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oh, Kim again... I had no idea you did all this (apart form testing :-)...
can we hear a result on some CD project or so?

Thanks
Matthias

>At 05:15 PM 1/15/98 -0300, Matthias Grob wrote:
>
>>Does anyone use the Quantize feature of the Plex? (I understood there is a
>>equivalent on the JamMan with a name I do not remember)
>>I guess Q level it mainly interesting to work in planned "organized" music,
>>where you treat bars and measures.
>
>I use the quantize function a lot these days. Originally I liked it because
>it helped me execute functions more accurately while playing guitar. I don't
>play guitar with loops so much these days (or much at all actually), I'm
>following some muse into more percussively oriented electronic dance music.
>It's organized in the sense that you are often concerned about maintaining a
>beat and keeping things aligned according to measure and section, which
>means a heavy use of midi clock for syncing. In my case the planned aspect
>mostly ends there, as I'm experimenting with taking a more improvised
>approach to it rather than sequencing every last millisecond. But I still
>want to keep the tempo and beat steady, and not have those things fly out of
>my control.
>
>For this, quantized loop functions are great. It's very easy to record
>things played in real time and get a loop sync'd with the sequence and
>aligned with the first beat of the pattern. Since I'm also manipulating the
>mixer or effects parameters, or triggering drum samples or something, it's
>incredibly handy to be able to press the record or multiply or whatever
>function when it is convenient, and know that it is going to come in exactly
>when it is supposed to. I can finish the function in the same way, by
>pressing when it is convenient, and the plex ends the function quantized to
>the end of the sequenced patterns. I can then go about manipulating this
>loop, effecting it, mixing it in and out, generally terrorizing it, but
>keeping it in time the way I want.
>
>As an example, I have the loopers on aux sends of the mixer, synced to midi
>clock from a sequencer. I like to take a loop of the drums and reverse it,
>mixing the reverse in and out with the original. First I start the sequence
>and then record a loop of its output, which is very convenient because
>everything is sync'd and quantized to the first beat of the pattern. I just
>hit record any time, and it starts at the right moment. I hit it again when
>I've got as much as I want, and it waits to end of the measure to end for
>me. Easy! The two are sync'd, aligned, running along next to each other.
>Then I hit reverse on the echoplex. The quantizing waits to the end of the
>measure before reversing the loop. So now the reversed drums are going,
>still sync'd to the original and aligned to the measures. Then I go nuts
>with the faders, bringing reversed drum hits in and out, using quick
>crossfades between the two, or whatever, creating a new pattern of reverse
>and forward drums.
>
>I might then use multiply to add some real-time playing to the loop, put it
>back forwards, and mix between the new loop and the old pattern. Or change
>patterns, or whatever. I'll use NextLoop to record several different loops
>like this, and it's all quantized and in time with the clock and lined up
>with other echoplexes and the sequencer. I can do quantized switches between
>all the loops, while mostly concentrating on the mixer, effects, and
>playing, and it all stays in time where I want it. There's tons of
>possibilities, and I'm only just beginning to explore it with a rather
>rudimentary setup. Without quantize I would never be able to execute the
>loop functions perfectly enough to keep it all together. With quantize it's
>a snap, and I can concentrate on doing other things while the looper does
>it's job on it's own.
>
>As a more advanced technique, I also like to set the echoplexes to time
>signatures different from the sequence and each other. Then I capture the
>drum pattern from the sequencer in different time signatures, and run it
>next to the original. So I might have the original in 4/4 and the loop in
>13/8. Running them next to each other gives a constantly shifting rhythm
>pattern that can be very interesting. By controlling the mix you can easily
>change which one dominates, effectively morphing from one time signature to
>another. Quantize is again a life saver here, because I can execute loop
>functions without the beat getting out of whack. What's also interesting is
>the quantize point changes against the original sequence. It's still in
>time, just at a different beat each time through. So you can keep things
>evolving.
>
>so anyway, I'm a quantizing fan!
>
>now back to the boring work....
>
>kim
>________________________________________________________
>Kim Flint		       408-752-9284
>Mpact System Engineering       kflint@chromatic.com
>Chromatic Research             http://www.chromatic.com





From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 22:03:14 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 13:11:20 1998
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From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob)
Subject: Re: Hello...  Hello!...hello!!
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I just downloaded two of your samples, Erich.
I love Cello, especially when looped, its so monophonic otherwhise :-)
... and you do it well, elaborate and beautifull, almost classical.

Welcome
Matthias




From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 22:03:29 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 14:49:39 1998
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From: KRosser414 <KRosser414@aol.com>
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:27:05 EST
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So, while waiting for the opportunity to buy an Echoplex or Jamman at a price
I can manage, I came up with a Digitech Time Machine 7.6 for $90.  This thing
appears to be capable of some great stuff, but I need a manual.  Anyone have
one?  I'd gladly pay for a xerox & postage...

Thanks,
Ken R


From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 22:03:33 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 15:24:20 1998
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Subject: ANYONE KNOW THE MIDI PEDAL SCHEME FOR THE ECHOPLEX?
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Does any one know what the midi pedal scheme is for the echoplex?My jamman
goes somthing like this,1=tap,2 and 3=bypass,4 and 5=replace,6=overdub,7and
8=mute,9,10and11=fade,12=loop#one,13=loop#two,14=loop#three,15=loop#four,
16loop#five,17=loop#six,18=loop#seven,19=loop#eight.Is the echoplex midi pedal
scheme anything like this?
The pedalboard for the echoplex looks like you have to scroll(tap) to get to a
prefered loop?Say I have the nine seperate loops filled,Im on loop# two and I
need to get to loop# nine do I have to scroll(tap) up to the ninth loop?I
would rather simply press one button per loop to get were I need to be.Im
using a ADA MC1 midi pedal.
thanks for any help you guys can offer,
Brian McKenzie


From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 22:03:34 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 15:24:43 1998
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Subject: Re:  one-function MIDI pedal?
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In a message dated 1/19/98 1:14:39 PM, you wrote:

<<Does anyone know if there exists a single pedal which sends a single
specific MIDI message?>>


I believe the "Midi Mouse" (Tech 21) does this.


From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 22:03:36 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 15:35:52 1998
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Subject: Re: one-function MIDI pedal?
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At 07:48 PM 1/19/98, you wrote:
>Does anyone know if there exists a single pedal which sends a single
>specific MIDI message?  After thinking about it, the only facility I need
>that I can't do with the existing JM pedals is the Short Fade function.  Is
>it possible to build one (easily)?


the Lake Butler midigator, which i have and love - will send out ANY midi
signal, and does some HEX stuff i don't need or understand. But it will send
anything in the basic protocol, on/off, notes, prog change, ALL OFF, etc.
someone had posted a few weeks back on finding a lot fo those cheap/used....
they rule, and they look cool for the gear-gazers (like me) that wander up
to the stage after the show....

also - that MIDI MOUSE that tech 21 came up with - small as a dist. box but
send prog change only. then there's an obselete Digitech box (in the same
chassis as all  those digi - 2-pedal boxes... it can be programmed to have a
sequence of midi prog changes, that you can stepp thru at will.

perhaps, though, none of this blather has helped you !

andre'



From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 22:03:37 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 15:39:09 1998
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From: "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@earthlight.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Help! re: Digitech Time Machine 7.6
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:22:15 -0800
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KRosser414 <KRosser414@aol.com> asked:


>So, while waiting for the opportunity to buy an Echoplex or Jamman at a
price
>I can manage, I came up with a Digitech Time Machine 7.6 for $90.  This
thing
>appears to be capable of some great stuff, but I need a manual.  Anyone
have
>one?  I'd gladly pay for a xerox & postage...


I've got their number at home, which I called when I got MINE - and got the
manual FREE.

Good company!

Stephen.

Stephen Goodman           * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios
EarthLight Productions     * Get the Loop Of The Week Free!



From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 22:04:09 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 16:20:58 1998
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Subject: Re: Help! re: Digitech Time Machine 7.6
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At 05:27 PM 1/19/98 EST, you wrote:
>So, while waiting for the opportunity to buy an Echoplex or Jamman at a price
>I can manage, I came up with a Digitech Time Machine 7.6 for $90.  This thing
>appears to be capable of some great stuff, but I need a manual.  Anyone have
>one?  I'd gladly pay for a xerox & postage...

hey ken...

i have, and of course adore, my 7.6, in fact i just found a 8sec TM... i
gotta say though, i don't have a manual, but you might not need it - it's
all pretty basic... a good addition is a pair of boss FS-5L - very tough
built  pedals for on/off and hold function. but, hands-on works great too!
also - an expression pedal can give you a cool/cheezy pitch/or time shift
sound..
any specific questions - gimme an e-mail -i'll gladly help
>
peace, andre'



From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 22:04:24 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 18:41:28 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:27:35 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: New to looping/processing
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In a message dated 98-01-19 10:31:31 EST, you write:

>  Hi,
>  I'm an acoustic guitarist/singer/composer and I'm getting interested in the
>  concept of looping and processing the acoustic guitar.  I'm intrigued with
>  the idea of extending my solo guitar and voice concept to incorporate new
>  sounds, textures, and rhythms via electronics.
>
I too am an acoustic guitarist who is actively using a JAMMAN for live
performances.
I added the memory upgrade of which I now have 32 seconds of delay time.  When
audiences hear the loops, they are very surprised due to the fact that the
tones are very serene as well as somewhat hypnotic.  My guitar is handmade of
which I use Martin Thinline Pick-ups, the guitar is Koa back and sides with a
Cedar top.  I run into a CRATE 125D acoustic guitar amp which gives phenominal
sound reproduction.
>From that, I run the line level output to the Jam man input, the jamman to the
Mackie board and then on to output eq and an Alesis Stereo compressor.  

The guitar and pickup provide a very bright sound which is then mixed with
Crate's digital delays (about 16 choices in all, all sound very nice).  I
remove most of the mids to avoid a tunnel sound and then run the entire mix
through a switiching amp to Community speakers.   Altogehter, a very nice set
up.  I do have some noise from the Crate but am able to filter it on the
output eq. 

I am set up for full stereo operation and had toyed with the idea of running
the dry mix to the left and the jamman to the right, but didn't care for the
sound too much.
I have an RDS8000 which could give me a cheap-man's stereo (additional delay
to one side) but have not had the chance to try it out yet. 

As far as pickups, each to his own.  In the high-end acoustic guitar circles,
there seems to be quite the argument over the mic sound vs. piezeos.  I prefer
a piezeo.  
The system placed into the Alvarez Yari is quite nice.  I don't care for BAGGS
pickups or any system mounted (god-forbid) across the sound hole.  

Good luck to you, as soon as you get your echoplex, you'll be doing solo gigs.

Adios.  Oh by the way, I am producing the 3rd cd project.  Are you interested?

John Peters  


From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 22:04:30 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 19:03:25 1998
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From: Matthew Blais <mblais@ma.ultranet.com>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Echoplex syncing
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:59:29 -0500
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Hi,

My name is Matthew, I'm new to this list.

I have two V5.0 Echoplexes which I have been trying (in vain) to get to 
operate synced in stereo with BrotherSync.  has anybody out there been 
successful at this, or does it just NOT WORK?  Anyone else tried this?

Thanks,
-- Matthew Blais  <mblais@ma.ultranet.com>
____________________________________________________
"Healing and Spiritual Crisis" WWW site:
    http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/blais.html



From ???@??? Mon Jan 19 22:02:40 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 19 10:18:37 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:48:40
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." <pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: one-function MIDI pedal?
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Does anyone know if there exists a single pedal which sends a single
specific MIDI message?  After thinking about it, the only facility I need
that I can't do with the existing JM pedals is the Short Fade function.  Is
it possible to build one (easily)?

Failing that, Motley, if you're out there, are there any plans to produce a
Rang Mk 2, with a fade switch and tap (rather than hold) tempo?

Michael

BTW, anyone trying to get a Roland FC200, try quick - they've been
discontinued.
I know, I tried...   :(



From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 02:16:19 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 20 00:59:57 1998
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:15:47 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Help! re: Digitech Time Machine 7.6
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At 3:22 PM -0800 1/19/98, Stephen P. Goodman wrote:
>KRosser414 <KRosser414@aol.com> asked:
>>appears to be capable of some great stuff, but I need a manual.  Anyone
>>have one?  I'd gladly pay for a xerox & postage...
>
>
>I've got their number at home, which I called when I got MINE - and got the
>manual FREE.


hey, if someone wants to scan the manual, I'd be happy to put it on the
website.

Also, lots of great info has been posted about this box. It would be great
if someone could complile it all into a FAQ for the Time Machine page. That
poor lonely page sure could use someone to take care of it!

Just think of the fame and self promotion it would gain you... Looper's
Delight gets over 3000 hits a week. All those people looking at YOUR
handywork....imagine: the job offers come streaming in....overflowing bank
accounts....new home studio toys....parties with rock stars and super
models....it could all be yours, just for one measly web page.....

kim


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com




From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 03:39:34 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 20 02:51:54 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 02:48:33 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Echoplex syncing
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At 9:59 PM -0500 1/19/98, Matthew Blais wrote:
>Hi,
>
>My name is Matthew, I'm new to this list.
>
>I have two V5.0 Echoplexes which I have been trying (in vain) to get to
>operate synced in stereo with BrotherSync.  has anybody out there been
>successful at this, or does it just NOT WORK?  Anyone else tried this?

well, I'm quite certain it works, since I spent about a year testing it! If
there's anything wrong after that, it's the beta tester's fault...:-)

You probably have something wrong in your set up.

First of all, with LoopIII v5.0 the default parameters are set for stereo.
So start off by resetting the parameters on both units. You do this by
turning the power on with the Parameter button held down. Keep it held
until the start up screen finishes and you get to the reset screen. Now all
your parameters should be set right for stereo.

Next, decide which unit is the master. This is the one where you will
execute all the controls. The slave will just follow it.

Connect a Midi cable from the Midi Out of the master unit to the Midi in of
the slave. At this point you should be able to execute functions on the
master and see that the slave follows.

The BrotherSync connection ensures that the stereo units maintain very
tight synchronization between each other, actually locking the sample
clocks together. Make sure you have the right sort of cable. It should be a
1/4" tip-ring-sleeve (TRS) cable. A mono cable will NOT work. Connect the
BrotherSync's of the two units together with this cable.

That should be it. The master should control the slave, and you should have
stereo loops. Let me know if you have any other questions.

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com




From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 11:04:18 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 20 09:46:54 1998
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Subject: Re: New to looping/processing
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 11:34:54 -0000
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>as far as new loopers,   I think I heard somebody say something about
>Lexicon doing something....   

Someone directly queried Lexicon, and the answer was "We don't comment on 
rumors".  I do remember one of the ex-Lex employees on the list saying 
something to the effect that the phrase "JamMan upgrade" was a sure way 
to send a roomfull of Lexicon employees into hysterical laughter.

>It only makes sense, If the JamMan is 
>discontinued
>and currently is gaining value on the used market at an astrnomical rate why
>wouldn't lexicon want to create a "new" technology to counteract Oberheim's
>success with the  Echo-complex?   

Because many people waited until the JamMan (and the Vortex) was 
discontinued and being blown-out at deep discount before buying one.  
That's not the sort of sales record that inspires companies to invest in 
new technology.

Travis Hartnett


From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 11:03:13 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 20 03:40:18 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 03:35:58 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: ANYONE KNOW THE MIDI PEDAL SCHEME FOR THE ECHOPLEX?
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At 6:02 PM -0500 1/19/98, ENAT21213 wrote:
>Does any one know what the midi pedal scheme is for the echoplex?My jamman
>goes somthing like this,1=tap,2 and 3=bypass,4 and 5=replace,6=overdub,7and
>8=mute,9,10and11=fade,12=loop#one,13=loop#two,14=loop#three,15=loop#four,
>16loop#five,17=loop#six,18=loop#seven,19=loop#eight.Is the echoplex midi pedal
>scheme anything like this?

It's not really like that, no. For one thing, it doesn't use program change
messages for executing functions. (we expect to use program change in
future versions for its intended purpose of changing programs...<duck!>...)

The midi control in the echoplex is quite extensive, and it is all
explained on the Looper's Delight website. Go to the echoplex page:

http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/echoplex/echoplex.html

and check the link for the "Echoplex Footpedal Tutorial." That has more
info than you are likely to care about, including a whole section on midi
pedals. There is also a FAQ on the echoplex, and the entire manual is also
on the site.


>The pedalboard for the echoplex looks like you have to scroll(tap) to get to a
>prefered loop?Say I have the nine seperate loops filled,Im on loop# two and I
>need to get to loop# nine do I have to scroll(tap) up to the ninth loop?I
>would rather simply press one button per loop to get were I need to be.Im
>using a ADA MC1 midi pedal.

You can switch loops in the Echoplex in a variety of ways. The most basic
way is scrolling, as you've noted, where each tap of the NextLoop button
sends you to the next loop. With this one you have to listen to all of the
ones in between, which might not be desireable. There are several different
options which avoid that.

If you set the SwitchQuant parameter to "Confirm" the echoplex will wait
until you tell it to jump to the loop you want. So as you tap the NextLoop
button the display shows which loop you are setting up to jump to, but you
still hear the current loop. When you are at the one you want, you press
the Undo switch to confirm it, and jump right there. (you can also press
any function switch, so that you can jump to the new loop and immediately
start another function.) This method is very convenient from the standard
echoplex pedal.

If you set the SwitchQuant parameter to "Cycle" the echoplex will wait
until the end of the current cycle (quantizing) before switching loops.
During the wait period before the end of the cycle, each tap of the
NextLoop button increments the loop you are jumping to. So you tap the
button enough times for it to show the loop you want to go to, and as soon
as the cycle ends you jump right there. Again, if you press another
function key, the echoplex will start that function as soon as you switch.
This method is convenient for switching anywhere with the pedal, but also
essential when you have to keep all of your loops playing in steady time.

And last is switching with midi. Unlike the JamMan, the echoplex is more
like a sampler in this respect. It uses Midi Notes or Continuous Controller
messages for changing loops. If you have the velocity parameter turned on,
the Echoplex will use the velocity info in the note on message (or the
value of the controller) to set the volume of the loop you switch to. You
jump directly to the loop you want by pressing it's associated
Note/controller number. (you can set which notes/controllers it uses for
the loops.)

The parameter called "SamplerStyle" sets exactly how it reacts to the midi
message. If it is set to "run" the echoplex jumps to the loop and keeps it
looping in the normal fashion. If SamplerStyle is set to "One" the echoplex
will trigger the loop from the beginning and play through one time and
stop. Sending repeated messages for the same loop will give you stuttering
or retriggering effects. And finally, if SamplerStyle is set to "Att" (for
attack) the echoplex will trigger the loop and play it as long as the note
is held down, which is like playing a sample from a keyboard controller.
Again you can do retriggering effects.

With the midi switching, the SwitchQuant parameter can also be on, and will
act as described above with the NextLoop button.

So as you can see, there are plenty of possibilites to cover just about any
sort of use. As far as whether your ADA pedal will work, that I don't know
since I'm not very familiar with that pedal. I suspect that Mr. T was not
very ambitious with that one and just designed it to control the MP-1,
which means it is probably a very limited pedal. There are a variety of
better pedals out there, some of which can be picked up used for very
little money. You might want to get something like a Digitech PMC-10, the
Butler Midigator (I think it'll work, not sure), Roland FC-200, or maybe
Rocktron AllAccess if you can afford it. The web site explains what to look
for in a pedal for the echoplex.

hope this helps,

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com




From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 11:04:12 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 20 09:00:13 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:47:09 GMT
Message-Id: <199801201147.LAA20604@phyleus.interlinx.qc.ca>
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From: erich kory <erich@InterLinx.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: Electric Cello and Looping
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At 08:19 PM 1/20/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Tell us some cello looping stories! 

Nice of you to ask.  I started improvising about 12 years ago after playing
classical for most of my life.  I was play "Dream Girls" on Broadway and
noticed all the regular pop musicians were having a ball, and the string
players were falling asleep.........
 When you say "electric cello," how electric do you get?  Do you use fuzz,
feedback, wah, pitchshifting, etc.? 

Yes, All of the above, but not all the time. I like to save the strong
effects for the right time, for example, I do an hommage to the Iraq "War"
that starts with a pizzacato loop and i play over that gentil arabic
melodies (like they chant at the mosques), the melodies start to get more
agitated, i bring in some delays and start screaming, the loop cuts out and
i go into a hendrix type distortion/delay that sometimes ends with the star
spangeled banner.......then i bring back the pizz loop, but the melody has
changed, it's more grotesque and sad.  
How do audiences react to an electric cello? 

The cello is an instrument very close to all of us.  The size is the same,
the voice, it goes into the heart of people...........when it's elctrified
and effected it just gets more powerful....
 What equipment do you use?
I am trying to reduce my set up all the time.  Now i use just a Roland SE70,
Jamman, Echo-Plex and Mackie 1202 with a Ground Control MIDI footpedal.
(Have a VS-880 here at home and have played some live shows with that and
jamman)
What kinds of gigs do you play?
I play a lot of solo shows, mostly in Europe and here in Quebec. Dance and
theatre too.  Here in Quebec i'm playing in a pop orianted band thats using
lots of live looping with the cello, voice and digital drums.hot slap bass
and we're starting to get into interactive lights and sound triggering.

If anyone out there knows about good intrtactive systems other than
Demension Beam, please let me know. Nice to be in touch with you guys...........

erich@interlinx.qc.ca,  web page:   http://kspace.com/kory

>I played cello when I was a kid and still dig the sound of it.---- Never
too late to try it again!(especially plugged in!)
>
>Mark Kata
>Mark@asisoftware.com
>
>----------
>From: 	erich kory[SMTP:erich@InterLinx.qc.ca]
>Sent: 	Friday, January 16, 1998 5:55 PM
>To: 	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>Subject: 	Re: Hello...  Hello!...hello!!
>
>now that i see that everyone gets these messages........
>
>i will introduce myself.
>
>i play electric cello and have been an addict of many things, the only
>remaining being looping.  Started about 12 years ago with the digitech
>double footpedals and now with a combination of jamman and echoplex.
>
>Hooked up with MoszŽ Loredo- bass and sampling freak (made demo for the Akai
>samplers)  and we're having some hot times up here in cold Quebec!
>
>Love to hook up with any recording projects that might need a little spice.
>i've been doing session work for many years and can play with just about
>anything. 
>
>luv to all you crazy Loopers
>
>erich
>
>
>
>
>



From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 11:03:28 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 20 05:25:30 1998
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Kim,

Does holding down the parameter button on power up reintialize the Loop 5
version setting all parameters back to their original state.

Thanks in advance

Kelly


From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 11:03:21 1998
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Tom-

I am waiting since May/97.
Is there any footswitch shipped to Spain ?

(This is not private mail)

Bye.Love.RaŸl.

Tom wrote:

> Date:          Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:18:50 -0600
> To:            Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> From:          Tom Spaulding <tspauldi@gibson.com>
> Subject:       Re: New to looping/processing
> Reply-to:      Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com

> Rich-
>
> Footswitches are on the way to Thoroughbred and other reputable stocking
> Oberheim dealers. (Reputable Stockings? Sounds like a Zappa tune...) I
> would recommend getting an EDP, natch, and both Thoroughbred
> (813-889-3874)and Bananas at Large (415-457-7600 ask for Rick)are excellent
> sources for all things OB. Enjoy!!
>
> Tom Spaulding
> Oberheim Product Manager
> 1818 Elm Hill Pike
> Nashville, TN  37210
> 800-777-0795
>
>



From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 11:03:49 1998
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P.S.  Are there any other women on this list?

Yup.    ;^)=8=<==

laurie......           NICE MACRO



From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 11:03:56 1998
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Rich Lamphear wrote:

> Hi,
> I'm an acoustic guitarist/singer/composer and I'm getting interested in the
> concept of looping and processing the acoustic guitar.  I'm intrigued with
> the idea of extending my solo guitar and voice concept to incorporate new
> sounds, textures, and rhythms via electronics.
>
> I've got a little money to throw at this (~$1500) and I'd like some advice
> on how I might best spend the money.
>
> My idea is to install a decent quality pickup on my acoustic, something
> that would maintain a reasonable amount of the acoustic guitar timbre
> before sending it to processing.  I've heard good things about the Sunrise
> and McIntyre pickups for this type of application.
>
> The Echoplex Digital Pro seems the clear choice for a looper.  Has
> availability of these improved lately?  (sorry if it's a faq, just joined
> the list).  I did phone Thoroughbred Music and they had three in stock, but
> no pedalboards.
>
> In addition, I'd like a multifx box to do standard digital processing for
> both the guitar and the voice.  My main question revolves around the issue
> of stereo processing.  Do you really need 2 Echoplexes to get a decent
> stereo sound happening?  Do most people running stereo process first (add
> reverb, flange, etc.) and then go into 2 Echoplexes?  Or do people loop
> first and then send the mono looped signal into a stereo processor and
> output from there?
>
> My choices (for around $1500) seem to be:
> 1) Echoplex mono into good quality multifx to stereo output.
> 2) El cheapo multifx stereo output into 2 Echoplexes operating in sync.
>
> Any advice to help me think about this would be much appreciated.  It sure
> would be great to be able to do both the processing and looping in a single
> box, but I don't think anything like that's on the market....correct?
>
> thanks,
> Rich

  corret I suppose, if you don't like samplers and sequencers...  cause a
sampler w/ a fair amount of memory could do everything you need ( i believe,
barring you're short on equipment).   Emu's from a couple of years age should
be well within your price range by now, in fact you may even end up having a
couple bucks left over to buy tape with!     Echoplex's are fine and fun, but I
really think there's a little bit too much emphasis being placed on how great
the Echoplex really is here in Looper's Delight...   No arguement here against
how fun an Echoplex is, but as far as I' concerned, the Echoplex's user
interface is far tooo Eco-com-plex for me, at least right now.   Without
spending mucho-dinero on processing equipment to clean up/fatten up the sound
of your acoustic guitar before it hits the plex, I don't think you'll get what
your looking for out of this unit...   I would recommend getting a hold of a
Jam Man w/ full memoery and both footswitches first, there are plenty of them
around on this list.  If you are fully comfortable w/ the Jam Man, and still
aren't getting what you want from this box( which is mono- a vortex) then drop
some loot on an echoplex pro.


                    Good luck navigating the stagnant waters of technology
                    pro-bono-its a bad day to do decisions.     :():



From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 11:03:57 1998
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> [computer types: this is an intentionally simplified explanation of data
> compression.  please don't castigate me for bitwise imprecision.  otherwise
> feel free to hate me for the mostly non-looping content!]
>
>

Aha!

did he kill this discussion yet?



From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 11:03:59 1998
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> I'm still experimenting with it and still learning about the music and how I
> relate to it and perform it. (and haven't had enough time for that, due to
> all the testing.... :-) )  So what I do still sucks hard, basically. When I
> do something that only sucks a little, I'd be happy to force you all to
> listen to it....
>
> kim



If you're as thorough with this sucky music as you are with everything else, it
probably doesnt suck...   I for one am intersted in hering it, please.



From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 11:04:04 1998
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Kim Flint wrote:

> At 3:22 PM -0800 1/19/98, Stephen P. Goodman wrote:
> >KRosser414 <KRosser414@aol.com> asked:
> >>appears to be capable of some great stuff, but I need a manual.  Anyone
> >>have one?  I'd gladly pay for a xerox & postage...
> >
> >
> >I've got their number at home, which I called when I got MINE - and got the
> >manual FREE.
>
> hey, if someone wants to scan the manual, I'd be happy to put it on the
> website.
>
> Also, lots of great info has been posted about this box. It would be great
> if someone could complile it all into a FAQ for the Time Machine page. That
> poor lonely page sure could use someone to take care of it!
>
> Just think of the fame and self promotion it would gain you... Looper's
> Delight gets over 3000 hits a week. All those people looking at YOUR
> handywork....imagine: the job offers come streaming in....overflowing bank
> accounts....new home studio toys....parties with rock stars and super
> models....it could all be yours, just for one measly web page.....
>
> kim
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
> kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
> http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com


Kim...   I love the Digitech Time Machine......
            I love Music made with the digitech time machine....
            I love the loopers delight web page....

               I'm just not smart enough to post my own web page....

            Sorry....:(
            I had to be good at something and it wasn't computers



From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 11:04:11 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 20 08:42:40 1998
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Subject: Re: PMC-10 Midi Controller Pedal...
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     Hello all, and Kim!
     
     After our recent discussion of how great the PMC-10 floor pedal is. (I 
     mentioned somewhere in there that I've had a few unexpected resets 
     which marooned me in various locations... sessions, gigs etc.)
     
     Weellll... I had a reset last night. Lost mucho deep programmed stuff 
     for my IPS33B, JamMan, LXP-15II, GX-700, GCX Expander. I've had 
     trouble with restoring backups before so I've become complacent or is 
     it resigned? I had no current backup.
     
     That said... I began rapidly re-programming and lo and behold. I'm way 
     more organized, and my patches and banks now reflect my current way of 
     thinking! Wow... I never would have done the work of reorganizing my 
     huge rats nest of info had I not crashed! It's a funny world isn't it? 
     Maybe a few less bits and bytes in memory will tax my PMC-10 less.
     
     ***I After a reset, I'm almost always curious about what else it out 
     there to manage my Midi...
     
     There has been a recent thread about syncing and Plex Midi control 
     where Kim mentioned other OK floor peds. The FC-200 was one. If one of 
     us owns one could you possibly go into detail about it's ability to 
     manage controller changes and other midi functions?
     
     Peace...
     -Miko


From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 11:04:12 1998
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From: "Rich Lamphear" <rlamphear@hbsp.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: New to looping/processing
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At 10:45 AM 1/20/98 -0500, you wrote:
>  corret I suppose, if you don't like samplers and sequencers...  cause a
>sampler w/ a fair amount of memory could do everything you need ( i believe,
>barring you're short on equipment).   

But I'm not aware of a sampler that allows for real-time overdubbing to
looped audio while it's playing...is there any such thing (besides Echoplex
and JamMan?)

I'm only interested in what I can generate live in real-time...not
interested in sequencing anything ahead of the performance.

>your looking for out of this unit...   I would recommend getting a hold of a
>Jam Man w/ full memoery and both footswitches first, there are plenty of them
>around on this list.  If you are fully comfortable w/ the Jam Man, and still
>aren't getting what you want from this box( which is mono- a vortex) then
drop
>some loot on an echoplex pro.

Thanks for the advice, and I haven't ruled out the JamMan.  It's just that
the prices of JamMen seem to be getting bid into the stratosphere (the last
three for sale at Rogue Music's auction have all gone for over $500).  At
that price I figure I'll spend a couple more bills and get the added
functionality and memory of the Echoplex.  Not to mention the nice pedalboard.

BTW, NAMM is coming up...any rumors of new loopers on the horizon?  Dare we
ask?

Rich



From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 11:04:14 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 20 09:09:35 1998
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From: "Julia & Dave" <jndk@colba.net>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Robert Fripp in Montreal
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:54:31 -0500
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Hi,

I just saw Robert Fripp last night.  Great show, although he started way ahead of
schedule.

I was glad to hear the Roland GR-300 guitar synth was still being used by Mr. Fripp,
but I just wish the idiots seated in front of me could have shut up for at least five
minutes.

I gave Mr. Fripp a copy of my last CD during the "question period" and he plugged it :)

We were also treated to a preview of "Projekt 2", but the true highlight remained his
excellent live set, which many people enjoyed with eyes closed, and heads down
in humble communion...

Some people were a bit rude during the question period, these of course being the
soul-less guitar "technicians" and all-round reactionairies, but nonetheless, Mr. Fripp
answered in a most diplomatic and respectful manner.

A true Gentleman.

Cheers,

D 4 V 1 D    K R 1 5 T 1 4 N

jndk@colba.net 
http://www.interlog.com/~stained/feedback/othprint/kristian.htm



From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 11:04:03 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 20 08:11:23 1998
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Subject: Pickups
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>My first suggestion for acoustic looping is, GET GOOD PICKUPS!!!  Your
>looping tone is going to be no better than its raw tone.
>
>I have a Fishman Blender system that uses a piezo bridge pickup in
>combination with an internal condenser microphone.  It's very good at
>sounding similar to an acoustic guitar.  Piezo pickups alone are terrible,
>i think.  They're missing "air".

If you listen on headphones, I agree. If you put them to speakers, you get
the "air" between the speakers and the ear. With the mic, you get "air"
twice.
Reverb helps a lot to simulate "air", too. You can even use a parametric
filter to simulate the body resonance, if you like that. But usually the
oposit happens: To make the mic sound useable, you have to filter out the
body resonance with a parametric filter. I use my piezos directly under the
string, without any filtering, just reverb. It sounds neither accoustic nor
electric nor plastic, but crystalic, clean, full and extremely dynamic.

Microphones create feedback, grab noises, are expensive (if any good)...

If a pickup sounds thin, the preamlification probably is not enough high
impedance or to far away so the bass is eaten.
If it sounds resonancy, weak, unequal, there usually is a mechanical short
cirquit around the pickup - in other words the bridge transmits string
vibrations to the body without passing through the pickup.
If it sounds plastic, usually there is plasic between pickup and string.


Matthias




From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 11:04:15 1998
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Rich Lamphear wrote:

> At 10:45 AM 1/20/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >  corret I suppose, if you don't like samplers and sequencers...  cause a
> >sampler w/ a fair amount of memory could do everything you need ( i believe,
> >barring you're short on equipment).
>
> But I'm not aware of a sampler that allows for real-time overdubbing to
> looped audio while it's playing...is there any such thing (besides Echoplex
> and JamMan?)
>
> I'm only interested in what I can generate live in real-time...not
> interested in sequencing anything ahead of the performance.
>
> >your looking for out of this unit...   I would recommend getting a hold of a
> >Jam Man w/ full memoery and both footswitches first, there are plenty of them
> >around on this list.  If you are fully comfortable w/ the Jam Man, and still
> >aren't getting what you want from this box( which is mono- a vortex) then
> drop
> >some loot on an echoplex pro.
>
> Thanks for the advice, and I haven't ruled out the JamMan.  It's just that
> the prices of JamMen seem to be getting bid into the stratosphere (the last
> three for sale at Rogue Music's auction have all gone for over $500).  At
> that price I figure I'll spend a couple more bills and get the added
> functionality and memory of the Echoplex.  Not to mention the nice pedalboard.
>
> BTW, NAMM is coming up...any rumors of new loopers on the horizon?  Dare we
> ask?
>
> Rich

I understand what it is you're looking to do, and I have known a number of people
who've used Emu samplers live to great successes...  but they usually worked for
months ahead of time creating their own samples in a studio environment, then
blending the pre-prepared samples with live sound.....

        as far as new loopers,   I think I heard somebody say something about
Lexicon doing something....   It only makes sense, If the JamMan is discontinued
and currently is gaining value on the used market at an astrnomical rate why
wouldn't lexicon want to create a "new" technology to counteract Oberheim's
success with the  Echo-complex?   I don't know anything about all that bs,  this
punk kid is cuttin out.   Nice talking with you.




From ???@??? Wed Jan 21 02:04:24 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 01:54:16 1998
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From: Matthew Blais <mblais@ma.ultranet.com>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Echoplex syncing
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:29:57 -0500
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On Tuesday, January 20, 1998 5:49 AM, Kim Flint 
[SMTP:kflint@annihilist.com] wrote:

> First of all, with LoopIII v5.0 the default parameters are set for 
stereo.
> So start off by resetting the parameters on both units. You do this by
> turning the power on with the Parameter button held down. Keep it held
> until the start up screen finishes and you get to the reset screen. Now 
all
> your parameters should be set right for stereo.
>
> Next, decide which unit is the master. This is the one where you will
> execute all the controls. The slave will just follow it.
>
> Connect a Midi cable from the Midi Out of the master unit to the Midi in 
of
> the slave. At this point you should be able to execute functions on the
> master and see that the slave follows.
>
> The BrotherSync connection ensures that the stereo units maintain very
> tight synchronization between each other, actually locking the sample
> clocks together. Make sure you have the right sort of cable. It should be 
a
> 1/4" tip-ring-sleeve (TRS) cable. A mono cable will NOT work. Connect the
> BrotherSync's of the two units together with this cable.
>
> That should be it. The master should control the slave, and you should 
have
> stereo loops. Let me know if you have any other questions.


I followed your recommendations to the letter; same results.  On these 
units, BeatSync works, BrotherSync does not.  The "sync" dot *never* lights 
(and the timing drifts) when the units are in BrotherSync mode (default 
setup).

I have tested the cables.  I thought perhaps it might be a bad connection 
internally, but when I had one 5.0 and one 3.x unit (same hardware as now), 
I seem to remember that BrotherSync OCCASIONALLY would show a "sync" dot, 
so there must be good connections (?)

Please make some more suggestions!  I am anxious to get this working; it's 
been about eight months, now.

Thanks,
-- Matthew Blais  <mblais@ma.ultranet.com>
____________________________________________________
"Healing and Spiritual Crisis" WWW site:
    http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/blais.html



From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 12:14:49 1998
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Hi New Potential Acoustic Looper:



Rich Lamphear wrote:

> Hi,
> I'm an acoustic guitarist/singer/composer and I'm getting interested in the
> concept of looping and processing the acoustic guitar.  I'm intrigued with
> the idea of extending my solo guitar and voice concept to incorporate new
> sounds, textures, and rhythms via electronics.
>
> I've got a little money to throw at this (~$1500) and I'd like some advice
> on how I might best spend the money.
>
> My idea is to install a decent quality pickup on my acoustic, something
> that would maintain a reasonable amount of the acoustic guitar timbre
> before sending it to processing.  I've heard good things about the Sunrise
> and McIntyre pickups for this type of application.
>
> The Echoplex Digital Pro seems the clear choice for a looper.  Has
> availability of these improved lately?  (sorry if it's a faq, just joined
> the list).  I did phone Thoroughbred Music and they had three in stock, but
> no pedalboards.
>
> In addition, I'd like a multifx box to do standard digital processing for
> both the guitar and the voice.  My main question revolves around the issue
> of stereo processing.  Do you really need 2 Echoplexes to get a decent
> stereo sound happening?  Do most people running stereo process first (add
> reverb, flange, etc.) and then go into 2 Echoplexes?  Or do people loop
> first and then send the mono looped signal into a stereo processor and
> output from there?
>
> My choices (for around $1500) seem to be:
> 1) Echoplex mono into good quality multifx to stereo output.
> 2) El cheapo multifx stereo output into 2 Echoplexes operating in sync.
>
> Any advice to help me think about this would be much appreciated.  It sure
> would be great to be able to do both the processing and looping in a single
> box, but I don't think anything like that's on the market....correct?
>
> thanks,
> Rich

The LoOpDoctOrs have their own particular take on "appropriate" technology,
but we've journeyed down some of the paths you wish to explore and here's our
two cents.

1: acoustic pickups are enjoying a renaissance.  We use the Highlander system
-- piezo and internal mike combo.  It works just grand and you can split the
seperate feeds out of the guitar...so there are more processing/looping
choices.  That said, a single source piezo or whatever will work fine too.
Sure it will sound like a piezo/whatever, but it's there to loop and morph,
etc.

2: One thing that we think is important on your equipment list for live
applications is a MIXER.  We use Mackie 1202s, but there are any number of
excellent and affordable small mixers.   It can't be emphasized how important
learning to deal with a mixer is, vis a vis getting a good live sound and
taking advantage of all the acoustic looping possibilities.  When you can take
your mixer and break it down blindfolded in the dark with the drill sargeant
barking at you at 1 am, then you know you're in the music zone.  So start
checking out mixers and the possiblities of hanging your loopers/processors
off the aux channels, which will give you molto/mucho/maxi flexibility as far
as tossing out cool stuff to the audience.

3: Stereo processors are a GREAT idea after the looper...  We use the now
discontinued Lexicon Vortex and we SWEAR by it, but we are a loopy lot and
some listeners swear at us.  There are a lot of stereo processors out there
though, and a lot of used one that will take a mono source -- like what will
be coming in from your loopers via your mixers -- and turn it into true
stereo.  We have found the best way to grab our audience is to do everything
live in TRUE stereo.  The ambient fields created this way can be startling
over the most modest pa.  Put another way, you will have the biggest sounding
acoustic guitar on the block!  And remember, that's even before you start
looping, so yes, once you get that mixer and pickup sorted out...look for a
stereo preamp/processor/effects box.

4: Finally loopers.  We own the Jamman and the Echoplex.  We love them both
for their unique personalities.  The Jamman had achieved a cult status by way
of now being extinct, but the Echoplex is not unduly complex as far as instant
looping gratification, has a MUCH better foot pedal.  Can be loaded with three
full minutes of memory and is much, much deeper in terms of what can be done
if you really get into it.  We're not crazy about the manual though, and the
faceplate interface is not as intuitive as the Jamman or the Boomer-
rrrrrrrannnnngss.

Best,
the LoOpDoctOrs


From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 12:14:50 1998
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From:	Dan Trueman <dan@silvertone.Princeton.EDU>
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On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, Rich Lamphear wrote:

> At 10:45 AM 1/20/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >  corret I suppose, if you don't like samplers and sequencers...  cause a
> >sampler w/ a fair amount of memory could do everything you need ( i believe,
> >barring you're short on equipment).   
> 
> But I'm not aware of a sampler that allows for real-time overdubbing to
> looped audio while it's playing...is there any such thing (besides Echoplex
> and JamMan?)
> 
> I'm only interested in what I can generate live in real-time...not
> interested in sequencing anything ahead of the performance.

If you feel like dealing with a computer (a Mac), the software 
sampler LiSa 
will do all this stuff and more. Checkout a demo at www.xs4all.nl.

Dan


From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 12:14:53 1998
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From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 12:14:55 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 20 11:51:21 1998
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Subject: Re:  Re: Echoplex syncing
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At 8:19 AM -0500 1/20/98, KelRey wrote:
>Kim,
>
>Does holding down the parameter button on power up reintialize the Loop 5
>version setting all parameters back to their original state.

yes. you have to hold it longer than in the old version (about 5 seconds or
so while it's starting up), but it's the same.

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com




From ???@??? Wed Jan 21 10:29:24 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 02:46:00 1998
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From: "Matt McCabe" <mattm@bi-tech.com>
To: "Loop List" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Loopers' Delight CD project link
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:01:39 -0800
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> that links to Mr. McCabe's site....Matt, is everything working over
there?
> 
> I just tried it, and it seemed to work, maybe it's fixed itself.

It's working.  If you hit the page and get an error message hit reload. 
That normally works.

BTW, if your name appears on the list of 33 esteemed contributors for the
Looper CD, you should be dropping your DAT or CD-R in the mail ASAP to:

Matt McCabe
424 W. 2nd Ave
Chico, CA  95926

So far I haven't received any tapes and the foul, foul, evil deadline is
fast approaching!  Buy some stamps for crying out loud!!!

Matt


From ???@??? Wed Jan 21 02:04:17 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 01:32:29 1998
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I've been thinking about this alot.

There are enough big differences between "sequencer looping" and "delay
looping" to make them significantly different.  Technologically, the former
requires much less memory.  Audially, the decay of past generations is
somewhat more interesting with the later, although this is a purely
subjective judgement.

When you play a note into a MIDI sequencer loop, what is typically recorded
is 1) what note you played and 2) how hard you played it ("velocity").
This takes somewhere around five bytes to represent in your sequencer
(three for the actual MIDI data, a couple of bytes overhead for timing
data) regardless of how long your loop is.  Now say you want this to
feedback at a nice robust 95%; enough to keep the beat around, but also to
let old material leave as you evolve the loop.  What this means in MIDI is
that the note is played a second time without you doing anything at 95% of
its original velocity, and then the third time at 95% of 95% of the
original velocity, and so on.

When you play a note into a digital delay loop, you're essentially
recording digital audio.  Just for the sake of comparison, let us say
that's 44100 2-byte samples every second of loop (that's somewhere near
CD-quality in mono).  This means 88200 bytes per second of loop for our
delay buffer!  Now say you want this to feedback at a nice robust 95%; blah
blah blah.  What this means to a digital delay is that the relative
amplitude of each sample is reduced 95% each time it goes through the delay
buffer.

That's the kicker.

When you reduce the velocity of a MIDI note-on message, you are not
necessarily reducing the amplitude of the sound.  In fact, in most cases,
you're changing the sound in very many more ways than amplitude.  The
effect is far different than if you had used a digital delay for the same
purpose.  The selection of what modulations occur in response to velocity
is critical in this sort of technique.  Also, most MIDI synthesizers can
only play so many sustained notes at the same time; with a digital delay
there is no such limitation.  This is part of what makes MIDI loop
sequencing attractive for percussion tracks; percussion sounds don't
usually sustain for very long, so you don't run out of "voices" in your
synth.  Also, in usual styles of percussion track evolution (I'm thinking
of the x0xes), the "delay feedback" is 100%; to evolve the track you build
a completely new one and cut or xfade to it, or play with outboard effects.

In sum; you can't easily sound like a Frippertroid with just MIDI sequencer
looping.

Finally, at the risk of being a horrid A/D troll, I believe that analog
tape delays are likely to have a significantly different sound than digital
delays, due to the audio characteristics of tape saturation.  I wouldn't be
sure though, I've never played through an analog tape delay before.

(Y 'jfm3)

P.S.  Interesting...  It was certainly once the case that good recording
tape was less expensive than computer memory.  Nowadays, I'm not so sure
that's the case anymore.







From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 23:29:08 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 20 12:30:15 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:18:29 -0600
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From: Tom Spaulding <tspauldi@gibson.com>
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Doctors of Loop and all ye assembled Loopers-

Yea, verily the Echoplex manual doth not suffice. It is an excellent
overview, (thank you Warren Sirota)but the unit is too deep to talk about,
it is maybe best explained with examples. It even has the awful reputation
of being complex! 

Therefore, everyone on this list who wants to contribute to re-writing the
manual, (to be edited by the fabulous Jackie O. herself), please choose a
section you feel most competent with and re-write it. I will collect all
efforts and re-print a manual written by the actual experienced users of
the Echoplex. 

 Kind of like a Lutheran Ladies Auxiliary cookbook, with italicized credits
at the bottom of each recipe thanking the author(s). We will incorporate
the "best of" the digest archives and hopefully Kim and Co.'s helpful
pages, etc. Free t-shirt to all who contribute. Pepsi and balloons for the
kids.

All in favor of manual by committee e-mail me. All opposed, look upon the
book ye mighty and despair!

(Some may think this is a low-budget, pandering, corporate-drive, attempt
to enlist off-payroll intellects and transform them into glorified tech
manual authors solely because they have spent the time necessary to truly
understand the product at a level the so-called Product Manager at Oberheim
cannot hope to attain without weeks and months of sleepless night. They are
correct. Thank you.)

Tom "UnaLooper" KuzIsedzo ;)





At 12:58 PM 1/20/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Hi New Potential Acoustic Looper:
>
>
>
>Rich Lamphear wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I'm an acoustic guitarist/singer/composer and I'm getting interested in the
>> concept of looping and processing the acoustic guitar.  I'm intrigued with
>> the idea of extending my solo guitar and voice concept to incorporate new
>> sounds, textures, and rhythms via electronics.
>>
>> I've got a little money to throw at this (~$1500) and I'd like some advice
>> on how I might best spend the money.
>>
>> My idea is to install a decent quality pickup on my acoustic, something
>> that would maintain a reasonable amount of the acoustic guitar timbre
>> before sending it to processing.  I've heard good things about the Sunrise
>> and McIntyre pickups for this type of application.
>>
>> The Echoplex Digital Pro seems the clear choice for a looper.  Has
>> availability of these improved lately?  (sorry if it's a faq, just joined
>> the list).  I did phone Thoroughbred Music and they had three in stock, but
>> no pedalboards.
>>
>> In addition, I'd like a multifx box to do standard digital processing for
>> both the guitar and the voice.  My main question revolves around the issue
>> of stereo processing.  Do you really need 2 Echoplexes to get a decent
>> stereo sound happening?  Do most people running stereo process first (add
>> reverb, flange, etc.) and then go into 2 Echoplexes?  Or do people loop
>> first and then send the mono looped signal into a stereo processor and
>> output from there?
>>
>> My choices (for around $1500) seem to be:
>> 1) Echoplex mono into good quality multifx to stereo output.
>> 2) El cheapo multifx stereo output into 2 Echoplexes operating in sync.
>>
>> Any advice to help me think about this would be much appreciated.  It sure
>> would be great to be able to do both the processing and looping in a single
>> box, but I don't think anything like that's on the market....correct?
>>
>> thanks,
>> Rich
>
>The LoOpDoctOrs have their own particular take on "appropriate" technology,
>but we've journeyed down some of the paths you wish to explore and here's our
>two cents.
>
>1: acoustic pickups are enjoying a renaissance.  We use the Highlander system
>-- piezo and internal mike combo.  It works just grand and you can split the
>seperate feeds out of the guitar...so there are more processing/looping
>choices.  That said, a single source piezo or whatever will work fine too.
>Sure it will sound like a piezo/whatever, but it's there to loop and morph,
>etc.
>
>2: One thing that we think is important on your equipment list for live
>applications is a MIXER.  We use Mackie 1202s, but there are any number of
>excellent and affordable small mixers.   It can't be emphasized how important
>learning to deal with a mixer is, vis a vis getting a good live sound and
>taking advantage of all the acoustic looping possibilities.  When you can
take
>your mixer and break it down blindfolded in the dark with the drill sargeant
>barking at you at 1 am, then you know you're in the music zone.  So start
>checking out mixers and the possiblities of hanging your loopers/processors
>off the aux channels, which will give you molto/mucho/maxi flexibility as far
>as tossing out cool stuff to the audience.
>
>3: Stereo processors are a GREAT idea after the looper...  We use the now
>discontinued Lexicon Vortex and we SWEAR by it, but we are a loopy lot and
>some listeners swear at us.  There are a lot of stereo processors out there
>though, and a lot of used one that will take a mono source -- like what will
>be coming in from your loopers via your mixers -- and turn it into true
>stereo.  We have found the best way to grab our audience is to do everything
>live in TRUE stereo.  The ambient fields created this way can be startling
>over the most modest pa.  Put another way, you will have the biggest sounding
>acoustic guitar on the block!  And remember, that's even before you start
>looping, so yes, once you get that mixer and pickup sorted out...look for a
>stereo preamp/processor/effects box.
>
>4: Finally loopers.  We own the Jamman and the Echoplex.  We love them both
>for their unique personalities.  The Jamman had achieved a cult status by way
>of now being extinct, but the Echoplex is not unduly complex as far as
instant
>looping gratification, has a MUCH better foot pedal.  Can be loaded with
three
>full minutes of memory and is much, much deeper in terms of what can be done
>if you really get into it.  We're not crazy about the manual though, and the
>faceplate interface is not as intuitive as the Jamman or the Boomer-
>rrrrrrrannnnngss.
>
>Best,
>the LoOpDoctOrs
>
>
>


From ???@??? Wed Jan 21 10:29:21 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 02:36:34 1998
Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.73 #8)
	id 0xuxWH-0005MT-00; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 02:36:29 -0800
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:51:06 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <199801202051.PAA03244@newman.concentric.net>
X-Sender: hideo@pop3.concentric.net
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Tom Lambrecht <hideo@concentric.net>
Subject: RE:Time for digitech machine page
Resent-Message-ID: <"cPvOKB.A.0ME.e2cx0"@ferret>
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Kim:

I'm, assuming that if some misguided soul who didn' get enuf attention as a
child was intrigued by the thankless prospect of compiling various boring
technical minutiae regarding an inanimate object that has been out of
production for years into a FAQ that less than a handful of people will ever
see (and when they do, will curse their search engine) . . . .

that you would turn the text file into a finished Loopers Web page complete
with head counter, flashing messages and the previously mentioned super
models fiddling with the KNOBS (AAAOOOOOOOHHHHH . . . KNOBS) on a vintage
RDS 8000 with Real-Time Audio and Puddling Video and Java and . . . .

Ahem . . well if that is the case, (and if and only the rest of the Deviate
League of Time Machinists contribute to the project), I'd have a go . . .



Just think . . . bigger than the Jamman (sorry, Greg) . . .more highly
sought after than the Eplex (sorry, Tom) , , , capturing more ridiculous
bids on the vintage market than Sheryl Crowe's old sox . . .

let me know--the world is poised, breathlessly awaiting 
                                (and it's time for my medication)

>:>::>::>::>:>::>::>:  Tom




 assumed responsibility for collecting and compilingAt 11:03 AM 1/20/98
-0500, you wrote:
>
>
>Kim Flint wrote:
>
>> At 3:22 PM -0800 1/19/98, Stephen P. Goodman wrote:
>> >KRosser414 <KRosser414@aol.com> asked:
>> >>appears to be capable of some great stuff, but I need a manual.  Anyone
>> >>have one?  I'd gladly pay for a xerox & postage...
>> >
>> >
>> >I've got their number at home, which I called when I got MINE - and got the
>> >manual FREE.
>>
>> hey, if someone wants to scan the manual, I'd be happy to put it on the
>> website.
>>
>> Also, lots of great info has been posted about this box. It would be great
>> if someone could complile it all into a FAQ for the Time Machine page. That
>> poor lonely page sure could use someone to take care of it!
>>
>> Just think of the fame and self promotion it would gain you... Looper's
>> Delight gets over 3000 hits a week. All those people looking at YOUR
>> handywork....imagine: the job offers come streaming in....overflowing bank
>> accounts....new home studio toys....parties with rock stars and super
>> models....it could all be yours, just for one measly web page.....
>>
>> kim
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>> Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
>> kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
>> http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com
>
>
>Kim...   I love the Digitech Time Machine......
>            I love Music made with the digitech time machine....
>            I love the loopers delight web page....
>
>               I'm just not smart enough to post my own web page....
>
>            Sorry....:(
>            I had to be good at something and it wasn't computers
>
>
>
>
Tom Lambrecht  hideo@concentric.net



From ???@??? Wed Jan 21 02:04:20 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 01:42:08 1998
Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.73 #8)
	id 0xumkX-0002Xo-00; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:06:29 -0800
Message-Id: <98Jan20.174651est.18819@thicket.arbortext.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:44:44 -0500
From: David White <dwhite@arbortext.com>
Reply-To: dwhite@arbortext.com
Organization: Arbortext Inc.
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I)
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Subject: Re: Manual Overwrite (formerly Manuel O'Veritas)
References: <98Jan20.141600cst.26882@gateway.gibson.com>
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As a software product manager in a niche market (SGML/XML authoring and
publishing), I find Tom's admittedly blatant attempt to solicit user help in
addressing a weakness of his product... refreshing. I'm going to suggest it to our
documentation department. I think I'll send in re-written chapters of
documentation to Honda, Compaq, Northern Telecom and Microsoft. Especially
Microsoft. No, wait... no, not Microsoft... I like my job.

Best regards,
David White

Tom Spaulding wrote:

> Doctors of Loop and all ye assembled Loopers-
>
> Yea, verily the Echoplex manual doth not suffice. It is an excellent
> overview, (thank you Warren Sirota)but the unit is too deep to talk about,
> it is maybe best explained with examples. It even has the awful reputation
> of being complex!
>
> Therefore, everyone on this list who wants to contribute to re-writing the
> manual, (to be edited by the fabulous Jackie O. herself), please choose a
> section you feel most competent with and re-write it. I will collect all
> efforts and re-print a manual written by the actual experienced users of
> the Echoplex.
>
>  Kind of like a Lutheran Ladies Auxiliary cookbook, with italicized credits
> at the bottom of each recipe thanking the author(s). We will incorporate
> the "best of" the digest archives and hopefully Kim and Co.'s helpful
> pages, etc. Free t-shirt to all who contribute. Pepsi and balloons for the
> kids.
>
> All in favor of manual by committee e-mail me. All opposed, look upon the
> book ye mighty and despair!
>
> (Some may think this is a low-budget, pandering, corporate-drive, attempt
> to enlist off-payroll intellects and transform them into glorified tech
> manual authors solely because they have spent the time necessary to truly
> understand the product at a level the so-called Product Manager at Oberheim
> cannot hope to attain without weeks and months of sleepless night. They are
> correct. Thank you.)
>
> Tom "UnaLooper" KuzIsedzo ;)
>
> At 12:58 PM 1/20/98 -0600, you wrote:
> >Hi New Potential Acoustic Looper:
> >
> >
> >
> >Rich Lamphear wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >> I'm an acoustic guitarist/singer/composer and I'm getting interested in the
> >> concept of looping and processing the acoustic guitar.  I'm intrigued with
> >> the idea of extending my solo guitar and voice concept to incorporate new
> >> sounds, textures, and rhythms via electronics.
> >>
> >> I've got a little money to throw at this (~$1500) and I'd like some advice
> >> on how I might best spend the money.
> >>
> >> My idea is to install a decent quality pickup on my acoustic, something
> >> that would maintain a reasonable amount of the acoustic guitar timbre
> >> before sending it to processing.  I've heard good things about the Sunrise
> >> and McIntyre pickups for this type of application.
> >>
> >> The Echoplex Digital Pro seems the clear choice for a looper.  Has
> >> availability of these improved lately?  (sorry if it's a faq, just joined
> >> the list).  I did phone Thoroughbred Music and they had three in stock, but
> >> no pedalboards.
> >>
> >> In addition, I'd like a multifx box to do standard digital processing for
> >> both the guitar and the voice.  My main question revolves around the issue
> >> of stereo processing.  Do you really need 2 Echoplexes to get a decent
> >> stereo sound happening?  Do most people running stereo process first (add
> >> reverb, flange, etc.) and then go into 2 Echoplexes?  Or do people loop
> >> first and then send the mono looped signal into a stereo processor and
> >> output from there?
> >>
> >> My choices (for around $1500) seem to be:
> >> 1) Echoplex mono into good quality multifx to stereo output.
> >> 2) El cheapo multifx stereo output into 2 Echoplexes operating in sync.
> >>
> >> Any advice to help me think about this would be much appreciated.  It sure
> >> would be great to be able to do both the processing and looping in a single
> >> box, but I don't think anything like that's on the market....correct?
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >> Rich
> >
> >The LoOpDoctOrs have their own particular take on "appropriate" technology,
> >but we've journeyed down some of the paths you wish to explore and here's our
> >two cents.
> >
> >1: acoustic pickups are enjoying a renaissance.  We use the Highlander system
> >-- piezo and internal mike combo.  It works just grand and you can split the
> >seperate feeds out of the guitar...so there are more processing/looping
> >choices.  That said, a single source piezo or whatever will work fine too.
> >Sure it will sound like a piezo/whatever, but it's there to loop and morph,
> >etc.
> >
> >2: One thing that we think is important on your equipment list for live
> >applications is a MIXER.  We use Mackie 1202s, but there are any number of
> >excellent and affordable small mixers.   It can't be emphasized how important
> >learning to deal with a mixer is, vis a vis getting a good live sound and
> >taking advantage of all the acoustic looping possibilities.  When you can
> take
> >your mixer and break it down blindfolded in the dark with the drill sargeant
> >barking at you at 1 am, then you know you're in the music zone.  So start
> >checking out mixers and the possiblities of hanging your loopers/processors
> >off the aux channels, which will give you molto/mucho/maxi flexibility as far
> >as tossing out cool stuff to the audience.
> >
> >3: Stereo processors are a GREAT idea after the looper...  We use the now
> >discontinued Lexicon Vortex and we SWEAR by it, but we are a loopy lot and
> >some listeners swear at us.  There are a lot of stereo processors out there
> >though, and a lot of used one that will take a mono source -- like what will
> >be coming in from your loopers via your mixers -- and turn it into true
> >stereo.  We have found the best way to grab our audience is to do everything
> >live in TRUE stereo.  The ambient fields created this way can be startling
> >over the most modest pa.  Put another way, you will have the biggest sounding
> >acoustic guitar on the block!  And remember, that's even before you start
> >looping, so yes, once you get that mixer and pickup sorted out...look for a
> >stereo preamp/processor/effects box.
> >
> >4: Finally loopers.  We own the Jamman and the Echoplex.  We love them both
> >for their unique personalities.  The Jamman had achieved a cult status by way
> >of now being extinct, but the Echoplex is not unduly complex as far as
> instant
> >looping gratification, has a MUCH better foot pedal.  Can be loaded with
> three
> >full minutes of memory and is much, much deeper in terms of what can be done
> >if you really get into it.  We're not crazy about the manual though, and the
> >faceplate interface is not as intuitive as the Jamman or the Boomer-
> >rrrrrrrannnnngss.
> >
> >Best,
> >the LoOpDoctOrs
> >
> >
> >





From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 23:30:35 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 20 20:18:16 1998
Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.73 #8)
	id 0xurbw-0001d6-00; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:17:56 -0800
Message-ID: <01BD25C3.13116740.lahatch@dnai.com>
From: Laurie Hatch <lahatch@dnai.com>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Guitar and audio schematics
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:37:46 -0800
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Just came across this site for schematic sources, don't know if it's been 
posted on this list before.  This URL will take you to guitar effects 
schematics, there's a bunch of vintage stuff listed.  Check the "parent" and 
"top" directories as well, for general audio resources.
http://nyquist.ee.ualberta.ca/~charro/cookbook/audio/guitar/

laurie



>From lists@slip.net Tue Jan 20 20:44:48 1998

From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 23:30:29 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 20 18:14:56 1998
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Message-ID: <01BD25C3.18810140.lahatch@dnai.com>
From: Laurie Hatch <lahatch@dnai.com>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Hello...  
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:45:42 -0800
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Corynne wrote:
> Hi Laurie, It's nice to find other women doing this sort of thing!
>Thanks for the reply!  What instrument(s) to you play?  I'd like to hear
>some of what you do...  I'll be talking again soon, but as of now, it's
>late here so I'm going to sign off.

I play bass, mostly.  Just recently started making more elaborate loops with a 
"plex n' tex" rack expansion.  (As in echo- and vor-.  Sounds like something 
that is done at a neo-gothic plastic surgeon's joint.  Yikes.)

You've certainly come to the right place to talk loops.  (Does that mean we end 
up repeating ourselves a lot?)  There are some incredibly knowledgeable and 
helpful people hangin out here, if a little twisted.  %^)  Moebius Strippers? 
 I'd better stop now.

ciao --
laurie





>From lists@slip.net Tue Jan 20 19:27:33 1998

From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 23:30:30 1998
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Message undeliverable at this time

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Attachment converted: shards o' data:noname (????/----) (00000BC0)

From ???@??? Wed Jan 21 02:04:17 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 01:09:11 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:40:10 -0400
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Curtis Bahn <bahnc2@rpi.edu>
Subject: Re: New to looping/processing
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Also check out MSP, David Zicarelli's signal processing extensions to MAX
at http://www.cycling74.com.  If you have a powerpc computer you can easily
design custom looping and overdubbing algorithms (amoung many other
things).  It's great !  Programs like MSP and LiSa are taking looping away
from the restrictions of commercial hardware, to a whole new level of
personal sound design and performance interaction.
crb



>On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, Rich Lamphear wrote:
>
>> At 10:45 AM 1/20/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> >  corret I suppose, if you don't like samplers and sequencers...  cause a
>> >sampler w/ a fair amount of memory could do everything you need ( i
>>believe,
>> >barring you're short on equipment).
>>
>> But I'm not aware of a sampler that allows for real-time overdubbing to
>> looped audio while it's playing...is there any such thing (besides Echoplex
>> and JamMan?)
>>
>> I'm only interested in what I can generate live in real-time...not
>> interested in sequencing anything ahead of the performance.
>
>If you feel like dealing with a computer (a Mac), the software
>sampler LiSa
>will do all this stuff and more. Checkout a demo at www.xs4all.nl.
>
>Dan





From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 23:30:35 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 20 20:44:48 1998
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Scott <tanelorn@dimensional.com>
Subject: Laurie's schematic site
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Laurie wrote:

>http://nyquist.ee.ualberta.ca/~charro/cookbook/audio/guitar/

Holy mutha-lode, Batman!  Get it while you can kids, I don't know how legal
this site is but WOW.  Got me a schematic for the Micro-Synthesizer.  Just
remember: don't shake hands with Mister Electricity.

Thanks, Laurie!

Scott Bullerwell
tanelorn@dimensional.com
Boulder, Colorado, USA



From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 23:30:36 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 20 22:00:10 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 00:39:08 EST
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As Dan pointed out:

>>If you feel like dealing with a computer (a Mac), the software 
sampler LiSa 
will do all this stuff and more. Checkout a demo at www.xs4all.nl.<<


I recently saw British violinist Kaffe Matthews play a solo set with LiSa and
a Powerbook at Harvestworks in NYC.  She played a pretty mind-bending
polyphonic loop improvisation, and gave a short demo/lecture on her methods
and tools (oddly enough, I saw Fripp the following evening, using a stack of
TC2290s and Eventides in order to achieve similar multitrack looping goals). 

LiSa itself is a pretty impressive piece of software, allowing for realtime
record and play of five voices, with pitch/speed control and some rudimentary
DSP functions for each (and at $250 or so, it costs less than any available
hardware looper--not including the Powerbook, of course).

-mike


From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 23:30:37 1998
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Sellon, Bob (Exchange) wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know how to route "Loopers-Delight" email to a particular
> folder under Microsoft Exhange (V5.0)? I tried using the Inbox Assistant

> but couldn't seem to get it to work. It always seems to look at the
> originators address instead of LoopersDelight. The sheer volume of
> messages is killing me and I would rather not "unsubscribe" if I can get

> the messages sent quietly to my LoopersDelight folder.
> 
> Many thanks.
> 
> Bob Sellon
> Engineer
> Lexicon/Stec

What I found was: the mails I get are marked as From the origianl posters, but the
To: field says Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com. So, I do the filtering on the TO field,
not on the From field (as you would normally do). I'm using Outlook 97, but I believe
Exchange supports this method as well...

Hope this helps.

Brian Thomson 
(Frivolous)

---
frivolous@mailexcite.com                 London, UK
http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/3242/
 See the XLChords project - MS Excel does chords?




Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com


From ???@??? Tue Jan 20 23:29:20 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 20 14:16:08 1998
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:37:01
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." <pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: New to looping/processing
In-Reply-To: <199801201734.JAA10802@scv2.apple.com>
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>>It only makes sense, If the JamMan is discontinued
>>and currently is gaining value on the used market at an astrnomical rate why
>>wouldn't lexicon want to create a "new" technology to counteract Oberheim's
>>success with the  Echo-complex?   
>Because many people waited until the JamMan (and the Vortex) was 
>discontinued and being blown-out at deep discount before buying one.  
>That's not the sort of sales record that inspires companies to invest in 
>new technology.

I think (and we could do this to death) that unless you're _really_ going
to get into looping (and get an EDP), the JM was just too expensive at its
original price.  Sound quality apart, most people don't want a helluvalot
more functionality than the Zoom 508. If it had more memory and a "fade"
function, I'd trade my JM for a 508!!!

Michael




From ???@??? Wed Jan 21 00:37:36 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 00:07:31 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 02:48:35 EST
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Hi Matt:

The LoOpDoctOrs were mixing as we called you and left messages and tried to
access the Loopers-Delight project access link. Unfortunately we couldn't get
the link to work and llife occasionally intrudes on looping and one of the
Docs had an emergency call to attend to in Portland (no kidding..).  We are
trying to get all our ducks lined up for the contribution and the only
question was who to make the entrance fee check out to.  Now, we will wait for
all the clever suggestions from the group, and comments about dangling
participles.

Best,
The LoOpDoctOrs


From ???@??? Wed Jan 21 00:37:37 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 00:12:51 1998
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Subject: Re: Manual Overwrite (formerly Manuel O'Veritas)
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Dear Tom:

Great idea.  We get the feeling you like your job or something.

We'd recommend Elvis over Jackie.  Elvis was looping from the waist down from
early on.  Meanwhile Jackie, while admittedly looking great in a sheath,
basically was a linguist, not a musician.  Futhermore, no one has seen her
face on any planet that we know about.

Best,
the LoOpDoctOrs


From ???@??? Wed Jan 21 00:37:39 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 00:12:59 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 02:57:36 EST
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Anybody know how much power a powerbook needs to run LiSa?  We have an early
one with an 020 processor and eight megs of ram.

best,
the LoOpDoctOrs


From ???@??? Wed Jan 21 00:37:41 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 00:28:06 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 03:10:42 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: ANYONE KNOW THE MIDI PEDAL SCHEME FOR THE ECHOPLEX?
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Thanks for the quick reply Kim.
      The echoplex sounds way more complex than my jamman.Im thinking of
investing in one?The only problem I have is this midi controller/echoplex
pedalboard access loop 1 thru 9 tap thing.
   What I do is midi merge two ada mc1 midi pedal controllers together .This
gives me access to all 19 of jammans loop functions without having to bank up
and down.The ada mc1 has 10 buttons on the face of one pedalboard.So with the
press of a button I can get around with ease (essential for me,especially
live).I would love it if the echoplex would react in a similar way.I realize
the echoplex does not accept midi program changes messages.You mentioned that
this feature will be added in a future echoplex.Any idea when this version
will be avalible?
Sounds like the midi note or continuous controller message for changing
loops in echoplex may work for me?Not shure though,is anyone out there using a
similar set up to mine with the echoplex?If so mabey you can let me know how
this midi note/continouous controler thing works with your midi pedal.I really
need to be able to jump from one function to the next with minimal tapping.
     Any Oberheim dealers in my area?I live in Myrtle Beach S.C. ,anywhere in
S.C.,N.C. or GA. would work.I would love to try one out.I'd probably order one
right now if I knew I could access most functions(especially loops 1 thru 9)
with the press of one button.  

Thanks for your help and patience,
Brian McKenzie


In a message dated 98-01-20 06:39:06 EST, you write:

<< And last is switching with midi. Unlike the JamMan, the echoplex is more
 like a sampler in this respect. It uses Midi Notes or Continuous Controller
 messages for changing loops. If you have the velocity parameter turned on,
 the Echoplex will use the velocity info in the note on message (or the
 value of the controller) to set the volume of the loop you switch to. You
 jump directly to the loop you want by pressing it's associated
 Note/controller number. (you can set which notes/controllers it uses for
 the loops.) >>


From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 00:30:09 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 22 00:12:04 1998
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Subject: Re: digitech phone number???? for manuals
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 10:15:22 -0000
x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com
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From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
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>how does one reach digitech (i know, i'm lazy, but it's easier to ask
>rather than swim thru the voice mail/menu stuff. no time) - 
>
>i need a time mach manual , fro the fun of it, if they're free.

They're no longer free. According to Digitech:

"Thanks for your request.  We are currently working on putting all
DigiTech owners manuals on the web site.  Unfortunately we don't have
a format that can be read by both formats (IBM and Apple).  In the mean
time, you can receive a manual by sending $5 cashiers check or money
order to:

HARMAN MUSIC GROUP
8760 SO. SANDY PKWY
SANDY,  UT.  84070
ATTN: KIMM"

Travis Hartnett


From ???@??? Wed Jan 21 10:30:21 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 09:15:23 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 10:43:06 -0000
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>I think (and we could do this to death) that unless you're _really_ going
>to get into looping (and get an EDP), the JM was just too expensive at its
>original price.  Sound quality apart, most people don't want a helluvalot
>more functionality than the Zoom 508. If it had more memory and a "fade"
>function, I'd trade my JM for a 508!!!

What do you mean by a "fade" function?

Travis Hartnett


From ???@??? Wed Jan 21 10:29:39 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 04:41:22 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 07:35:39 -0500
From: buzzard@world.std.com (Sean T Barrett)
Message-Id: <199801211235.AA16477@world.std.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Looping with sequencers..
References: <3.0.1.16.19980117124845.0e975676@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk>
    <34C0B943.9E0FB05@mailbox.syr.edu>
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>There are enough big differences between "sequencer looping" and "delay
>looping" to make them significantly different.
>Audially, the decay of past generations is
>somewhat more interesting with the later, although this is a purely
>subjective judgement.

Well... that depends _what_ you thing "decay of past generations"
should be.

Most audio loopists advocate "the old sound gets quieter and the
new sound gets mixed in".  Some "hardcore _tape_ loopists" demand
the sound of tape with that lowpass filter per loop evolution as
"the sound of decay" that they want.  Of course, by putting the
loop feedback outside of the looper, you can put any effects you
want in the loop, although probably at the cost of having to limit
the maximum feedback significantly.  (But, I don't know anyone
who actually does this on a regular basis.)

On the other hand, what can MIDI loops do?  As you say, "fading"
the velocity over time isn't really the same as fading the volume
over time.  Of course, you can program your synthesizer to do whatever
you want in response to the velocity, e.g. only fade volume, close
a filter, etc.

What you give up is the expressiveness of having the velocity
of the original note & the volume decreasing.

And that's it, right?  That's all you can do for decaying
a MIDI loop?

Well... how about:

- decay by shortening the durations each iteration
- "decay" by making the note sound less and less often each
  iteration (e.g. 4 seconds, then 8, then 16, then 32; or
  perhaps the fibonacci sequence when you want something
  more weird--or the prime numbers when you want something
  unpredictable)
- make each "iteration" transmit on its own MIDI channel;
  then you give each channel its own program, with a volume
  ramp across all the channels (giving you independent fade
  and key velocity).  Heck, while you're at it, you can make
  each channel use a different patch/sound/sample and get
  "echoes" that change instruments.  Or maybe use a single
  sound, but have the volume ramp _up_ instead of down, a
  sort of "reverse echo".

Wow!  It seems like there's a lot more possibilities
with MIDI looping than at first glance.

The big problems that I see:
>Also, most MIDI synthesizers can only play so many sustained notes
>at the same time; with a digital delay there is no such limitation.

I think it's safe to say ALL synthesizers have this problem.

This "problem" is of course exactly the thing you don't take
advantage if you "MIDI loop naively".  The delay doesn't need
to "resynthesize" the notes, but the MIDI looper does--so maybe
take advantage of that resynthesis.

I was thinking about just getting 1 or 2 64-voice MIDI synthesizers
to address this problem; that's a lot of money, unfortunately
(the Alesis NanoSynth and siblings aren't multi-timbral, and
I think they're limited in programming).

The other big problem turns out to be MIDI (boy, ZIPI would be
much better for this), since you're limited to 16 distinct
"channel configurations" (i.e. settings of channel volume,
channel pitch bend, etc) which limits how much interesting
echo effects you can do without relying on altering the
key velocity.

With an 8 second loop, 16 tracks of echo will disappear
in just over two minutes, though, which isn't _that_ bad.

I'm thinking of something like "do cool stuff for 15 echoes
and then just key velocity fade out the notes on the 16th
track".

Unfortunately, doing all of this gives up putting multi-timbral
input _into_ the MIDI looper, since each input channel would
need its own bank of output channels.

>In sum; you can't easily sound like a Frippertroid
>with just MIDI sequencer looping.

Not with any available software.
I'm working[1] on it though.

Sean Barrett
currently only in the design stages unfortunately


From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 00:30:10 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 22 00:24:22 1998
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Message-Id: <199801211845.KAA11158@scv2.apple.com>
Subject: Re: New to looping/processing
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 12:46:11 -0000
x-sender: hartne.t@mail.apple.com
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From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
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>Travis:
>>What do you mean by a "fade" function?
>
>A way of dropping the feedback level.  The JM has three non-unity feedback
>settings - "short","medium" and "long" fades.  Unfortunately, they're only
>available via MIDI which rather hampers operation, hence my search to find
>a pedal which activates one of the Fades.   BTW, thanks to everyone who
>responded about the MIDI pedal - I think the MIDIsolutions pedal looks ideal.

There's a feedback parameter that you can edit on the Zoom.

Travis


From ???@??? Wed Jan 21 10:29:42 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 05:36:25 1998
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Message-Id: <199801211329.IAA13378@shell.monmouth.com>
Reply-To: <andre@monmouth.com>
From: "andre" <andre@monmouth.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: female looper, by proxy
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:29:59 -0500
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hello Laurie & Corynne....

i can't get my girlfriend to type into this thing, but for the record,
she's a looping fiend as well - we have a bizarre improv oriented looping
duo, i play guitarsynth, triggering kawai & yamaha synths, etc, plus
vortex, etc etc

Cheri is a drummer/percussionist, she makes mad loops with her digitech
looper (i forget the #) and a roland ms(??) 100 for live sequence/loops.
she also triggers an awesome alesis nanosynth with a drum-kat midi pad set,
also some old boss pads. It all loops around and we talk about heavens
gate, the gulf war forced vaccination program, or the DARE song over the
top of it....

we have a friend named Jane Scarpantoni - she plays cello for Tiny Lights,
Indigo Girls, Lounge Lizards. I believe she does a little looping at
times....

we have a 80min tape available - we love to trade it for similar releases -
we've gotten some cool stuff fr. people on this very list MINUS, OLIVIER
MALHOMME and FINGERPAINT are all great !! So - to everyone - email direct
re: trade or getting our tape. we'r eplaying this sunday with Elliott Sharp
and Chris Haskett of the Rollins band -it'll be an alternative to the
superbowl!!

andre@monmouth.com

> 
> 
> 
> 


From ???@??? Wed Jan 21 10:29:44 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 05:48:52 1998
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Reply-To: <andre@monmouth.com>
From: "andre" <andre@monmouth.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: digitech phone number???? for manuals
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:43:53 -0500
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how does one reach digitech (i know, i'm lazy, but it's easier to ask
rather than swim thru the voice mail/menu stuff. no time) - 

i need a time mach manual , fro the fun of it, if they're free.

andre@monmouth.com



From ???@??? Wed Jan 21 10:30:01 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 08:02:15 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:54:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Dpcoffin@aol.com
Message-ID: <980121105434_186410898@mrin54>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:  LiSa (was Re: New to looping/processing)
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Hey, I want to hear more about LiSa...went to the URL given and couldn't
figure out WHAT it was, even in English (or find a ref to LiSa)....and a web
search brought up nothing on the thing....HELP! and THANKS!
dpc


From ???@??? Wed Jan 21 10:30:08 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 08:25:59 1998
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Date:	Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:12:06 -0500 (EST)
From:	Dan Trueman <dan@silvertone.Princeton.EDU>
To:	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: LiSa (was Re: New to looping/processing)
In-Reply-To: <980121105434_186410898@mrin54>
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OK, I found the specific link you need:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~steim/lisa.html

Pretty cool; I've used it a lot in performance. It has never crashed, 
and it is quite flexible... You can download a demo from them.

dan

On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 Dpcoffin@aol.com wrote:

> Hey, I want to hear more about LiSa...went to the URL given and couldn't
> figure out WHAT it was, even in English (or find a ref to LiSa)....and a web
> search brought up nothing on the thing....HELP! and THANKS!
> dpc
> 


From ???@??? Wed Jan 21 10:30:20 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 09:11:51 1998
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From: ZeplinSoup <ZeplinSoup@aol.com>
Message-ID: <b1c9b2d.34c62825@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:53:54 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: Looping with sequencers..
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I like it when David letterman describes someone as "loopy"
anywayz regarding sequencers and looping...I use my sequencer(cakewalk or
LogicAudio) to set the loop time on the Jamman.typically I will have a drum
loop with the # of beats I need.I will send a program change message at the
1st beat and another to define the end of the loop (5:01:000 for a four bar
loop).Now i have drums that are in synch with the jamman allowing me to keep a
consistent time feel from loop to loop...next i eitsometimes add to the drums
by outputting it to the vortex which is setup with the same tempo.I just play
next until I start to get something cool goin on...hopefully I can piece
together the seperate loops into a coherent song (kinda).This metod insures
that the different loops will stay in synch with each other..also with the
jamman if you need other loops in different tempos or perhaps the same tempo
but a different number of beats....no problem !should be easy this way...once
i have a collection of loops it is very easy to now add other MIDi
instruments--different drums---whatever let your imagination go wild...that
will easily match the tempo feel of the audio loops...at this point i usually
manipulate regions and playlists,and do some dsp if needed....
Reeve


From ???@??? Wed Jan 21 11:16:35 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 10:35:11 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:35:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven Dubofsky <skullsaw@gti.net>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: New to looping/processing
In-Reply-To: <199801211642.IAA6887530@scv1.apple.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.93.980121123417.25256E-100000@apollo.gti.net>
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On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, T.W. Hartnett wrote:

> >I think (and we could do this to death) that unless you're _really_ going
> >to get into looping (and get an EDP), the JM was just too expensive at its
> >original price.  Sound quality apart, most people don't want a helluvalot
> >more functionality than the Zoom 508. If it had more memory and a "fade"
> >function, I'd trade my JM for a 508!!!
> 
> What do you mean by a "fade" function?
> 


if he's talking about feedback than it does it. I spent about 6 hours with
my 508 yesterday, damn nice piece for a measily 100 bucks.

                            i love children..... 
                       especially in soups and salads
                       
                           skullsaw's brainstem 
                        http://www.gti.net/skullsaw




From ???@??? Wed Jan 21 11:16:36 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 10:35:31 1998
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Message-ID: <F1AB88C8C043D011875C00805FD426B81FB480@Exchange_WV1.ATK.COM>
From: "Ott, John" <John_Ott@ATK.COM>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: LiSa 
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:54:04 -0600
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I think in order to do real time you need a powerbook that
supports asynchronous I/O, otherwise the recording and 
playback will be bursty and the sound breaks up. You need 
to stream the data hence the need for asynchronous I/O. 
That would limit it to the 500 series, the 5300 and the 3400, I don't
know if 
the new G3 powerbook have asynchronous. I/O or not. 

You can download the demo and try it to 
see if your powerbook will work.  The 
demo is fully functional you just can't
save any samples.

later

John

> ----------
> From: 	Fmplautus
> Reply To: 	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Sent: 	Wednesday, January 21, 1998 8:06 AM
> To: 	John_Ott@ATK.COM
> Subject: 	Re: LiSa (was Re: New to looping/processing)
> 
> Anybody know how much power a powerbook needs to run LiSa?  We have an
> early
> one with an 020 processor and eight megs of ram.
> 
> best,
> the LoOpDoctOrs
> 


From ???@??? Wed Jan 21 10:29:31 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 03:47:59 1998
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From: Takadimi <Takadimi@aol.com>
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Subject: Re:  Re:  Re: Echoplex functions ?
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Thanks for the info. I'll probably wind up buying the Echoplex. Since I'm not
a looper and not interested in 99% of the email I'm getting from Loopers
Delight I'm going to have to Unsubscribe-there's just too much volume. Thanks
again for your help.
							Sincerely,
										Todd


From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 00:27:45 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 12:46:52 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:31:41 -0500
From: innerspace@mediaone.net
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Tom Spaulding wrote:

> Doctors of Loop and all ye assembled Loopers-
>
> Yea, verily the Echoplex manual doth not suffice. It is an excellent
> overview, (thank you Warren Sirota)but the unit is too deep to talk about,
> it is maybe best explained with examples. It even has the awful reputation
> of being complex!
>
> Therefore, everyone on this list who wants to contribute to re-writing the
> manual, (to be edited by the fabulous Jackie O. herself), please choose a
> section you feel most competent with and re-write it. I will collect all
> efforts and re-print a manual written by the actual experienced users of
> the Echoplex.
>
>  Kind of like a Lutheran Ladies Auxiliary cookbook, with italicized credits
> at the bottom of each recipe thanking the author(s). We will incorporate
> the "best of" the digest archives and hopefully Kim and Co.'s helpful
> pages, etc. Free t-shirt to all who contribute. Pepsi and balloons for the
> kids.
>
> All in favor of manual by committee e-mail me. All opposed, look upon the
> book ye mighty and despair!
>
> (Some may think this is a low-budget, pandering, corporate-drive, attempt
> to enlist off-payroll intellects and transform them into glorified tech
> manual authors solely because they have spent the time necessary to truly
> understand the product at a level the so-called Product Manager at Oberheim
> cannot hope to attain without weeks and months of sleepless night. They are
> correct. Thank you.)
>
> Tom "UnaLooper" KuzIsedzo ;)
>

  I'm all for the idea of corporate chaos, however, I was so unsuccessfull in
decoding the manual that is in existence in this reality, today, that I have no
technical knowledge whatsoever in comparison to everybody else on this list...
but I have to say, you rule.



From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 00:27:53 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 12:57:07 1998
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References: <3.0.2.32.19980120114449.00701b20@mail1.hbsp.harvard.edu> <l03130306b0eb0f46e2eb@[153.37.145.248]>
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Curtis Bahn wrote:

> Also check out MSP, David Zicarelli's signal processing extensions to MAX
> at http://www.cycling74.com.  If you have a powerpc computer you can easily
> design custom looping and overdubbing algorithms (amoung many other
> things).  It's great !  Programs like MSP and LiSa are taking looping away
> from the restrictions of commercial hardware, to a whole new level of
> personal sound design and performance interaction.
> crb
>

hey there...    I'm new to PC...home PC that is, recording.  What you wrote about
this site and these programs is way too interesting to pass up... but I suspect
its a bit over my head.
I've got a P2 266/mmx w/ 6gb, and a few years experience in a studio.  How hard is
this?  I don't think I'm dumb, I should be able to figure it out.  Any advice?





From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 00:29:12 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 19:46:49 1998
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Sean Echevarria <sechevar@california.com>
Subject: RE:www-cycling74  wow.:)
In-Reply-To: <34C65DB5.AA3892C9@mediaone.net>
References: <3.0.2.32.19980120114449.00701b20@mail1.hbsp.harvard.edu>
 <l03130306b0eb0f46e2eb@[153.37.145.248]>
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X-Status: 

As PC users, you and I are out of luck unless MAX gets ported from Mac :(


At 03:42 PM 1/21/98 -0500, innerspace@mediaone.net wrote:
>hey there...    I'm new to PC...home PC that is, recording.  What you
wrote about
>this site and these programs is way too interesting to pass up... but I
suspect
>its a bit over my head.
>I've got a P2 266/mmx w/ 6gb, and a few years experience in a studio.  How
hard is
>this?  I don't think I'm dumb, I should be able to figure it out.  Any
advice?



From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 00:28:01 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 13:18:26 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:03:44 -0500
From: innerspace@mediaone.net
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ooops.

please disregard my message regarding LiSa... I don't have a mac.

but, is there anything like this for my PC.... there we go, valid
question:>



From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 00:28:04 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 13:39:55 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:23:41 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com>
Subject: RE:www-cycling74  wow.:)
Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
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At 03:42 PM 1/21/98 -0500, innerspace@mediaone.net wrote:
>
>
>Curtis Bahn wrote:
>
>> Also check out MSP, David Zicarelli's signal processing extensions to MAX
>> at http://www.cycling74.com.  If you have a powerpc computer you can easily
>> design custom looping and overdubbing algorithms (amoung many other
>> things).  It's great !  Programs like MSP and LiSa are taking looping away
>> from the restrictions of commercial hardware, to a whole new level of
>> personal sound design and performance interaction.
>> crb
>>
>
>hey there...    I'm new to PC...home PC that is, recording.  What you wrote
about
>this site and these programs is way too interesting to pass up... but I suspect
>its a bit over my head.
>I've got a P2 266/mmx w/ 6gb, and a few years experience in a studio.  How
hard is
>this?  I don't think I'm dumb, I should be able to figure it out.  Any advice?

In the case of David Z's Max objects, you may be out of luck. Max is a
Macintosh program. (and a truly awesome and ridiculously useful one at
that.) Last I heard there were no serious plans to port it to PC. Don't know
about LiSa.

Oh, and if you don't know who David Zicarelli is, pretty much anything he's
ever been involved with is likely to be great. (except maybe g-wiz, he
worked there for a brief time near the end, but not long enough to do
anything good.)

kim
________________________________________________________
Kim Flint		       408-752-9284
Mpact System Engineering       kflint@chromatic.com
Chromatic Research             http://www.chromatic.com



From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 00:28:14 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 13:50:35 1998
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From: "Matt McCabe" <mattm@bi-tech.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: some torn live stuff
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:31:12 -0800
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> From: Texture444 <Texture444@aol.com>

> 3/1, l.a.: solo concert @ mccabes, in santa monica.

Hmmm....too bad I'm not related to those McCabes.  I guess I could fake it.
 Free tickets to everyone on Looper's Delight...just tell 'em Matt sent
you!! :-)

Matt McCabe





From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 00:28:31 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 16:40:30 1998
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From: Paolo Valladolid <pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Message-Id: <199801212138.NAA25353@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
Subject: Re: www-cycling74  wow.:)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:38:05 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <34C65DB5.AA3892C9@mediaone.net> from "innerspace@mediaone.net" at Jan 21, 98 03:42:29 pm
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> Curtis Bahn wrote:
> 
> > Also check out MSP, David Zicarelli's signal processing extensions to MAX
> > at http://www.cycling74.com.  If you have a powerpc computer you can easily
> > design custom looping and overdubbing algorithms (amoung many other
> > things).  It's great !  Programs like MSP and LiSa are taking looping away
> > from the restrictions of commercial hardware, to a whole new level of
> > personal sound design and performance interaction.
> > crb
> >
> 
> hey there...    I'm new to PC...home PC that is, recording.  What you wrote about
> this site and these programs is way too interesting to pass up... but I suspect
> its a bit over my head.
> I've got a P2 266/mmx w/ 6gb, and a few years experience in a studio.  How hard is
> this?  I don't think I'm dumb, I should be able to figure it out.  Any advice?

Since you have a PC and not a Mac, maybe you should check out Kyma/Capybara
by Symbolic Sound.  The beauty of Kyma/Capybara is that it runs on a 
separate box loaded with DSPs instead of directly on your computer so it
doesn't rob processing time from your computer.   The computer mainly serves
as a controller for the box.   Symbolic Sound just started offering a 
PCMIA card so that you can run Kyma on a laptop.   I don't know if it has 
looping/overdubbing functions like the Echoplex but maybe it's worth a look.

The URL is http://www.symbolicsound.com/ 
 
BTW, Kyma runs on both Macs and PCs.  Capybara is the DSP box.

Cheers,

Paolo Valladolid
 ---------------------------------------------------------------
|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list	|\ 
|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments 			| \
 ----------------------------------------------------------------  |
\ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info		 \ |
 \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html		  \| 
  -----------------------------------------------------------------


From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 01:18:51 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 22 01:09:50 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:09:32 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Sean Echevarria <sechevar@california.com>
Subject: Re: New to looping/processing
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980121235043.1eb7159c@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk>
References: <Pine.SUN.3.93.980121123417.25256E-100000@apollo.gti.net>
 <199801211642.IAA6887530@scv1.apple.com>
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At 11:50 PM 1/21/98, Michael P. Hughes wrote:
>>Do you have any info on the MIDI solutions pedal? 
>
>Try www.midisolutions.com  The pedal costs $100 and is programmed via SysEx
>messages.  Or they'll preprogram it for $20.

Check out http://www.midi-classics.com/hardm.htm#53 for discounted pricing.



From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 00:29:01 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 17:13:56 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:35:33 -0400
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Curtis Bahn <bahnc2@rpi.edu>
Subject: RE:www-cycling74  wow.:)
Resent-Message-ID: <"IcLgLB.A.qKG.8opx0"@ferret>
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>Curtis Bahn wrote:
>
>> Also check out MSP, David Zicarelli's signal processing extensions to MAX
>> at http://www.cycling74.com.  If you have a powerpc computer you can easily
>> design custom looping and overdubbing algorithms (amoung many other
>> things).  It's great !  Programs like MSP and LiSa are taking looping away
>> from the restrictions of commercial hardware, to a whole new level of
>> personal sound design and performance interaction.
>> crb
>>
>
>hey there...    I'm new to PC...home PC that is, recording.  What you
>wrote about
>this site and these programs is way too interesting to pass up... but I
>suspect
>its a bit over my head.
>I've got a P2 266/mmx w/ 6gb, and a few years experience in a studio.  How
>hard is
>this?  I don't think I'm dumb, I should be able to figure it out.  Any advice?

Unfortunately you need a powerpc macintosh to run MAX/MSP.  On Intel
machines, I don't know of anything that is as powerful, general and
inexpensive as MAX/MSP for simple, graphical development of interactive
audio processing.  Some possibilities may be "Pure Data and GEM" which
would run under windows NT -  and allows realtime video/graphics processing
as well as digital sound processing, or, the MARS digital audio workstation
environment which has a max-like graphical programming environment as a
"front-end" to a very powerful audio engine (you could loop for hours on
this thing, filtering, reversing, scrubbing, reverberating etc. and all you
would have to cart around would be one computer instead of racks of gear.)

Information on these developments, and other musical software of varying
degrees of interest to loopers, are listed on my software resources page at
the Electronic Music Foundation -  http://www.emf.org/sites/software.html.
I'll continue to add to this page as new software for performance becomes
available.

cheers,
crb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Curtis Bahn
iEAR Studios, DCC 135
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Troy, New York,
12180
office  (518) 276-4032
fax     (518) 276-4780
email    crb@rpi.edu




From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 00:28:29 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 16:18:43 1998
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From: Ray Peck <rpeck@no-spam-rpeck.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: RE: LiSa 
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Just looked in on the list for the first time in a *long* while, and
thought I'd chime in with something helpful for a change. . .


In the same ballpark as LiSa is Generator, from Native Instruments.
It's *much* more flexible than LiSa.  Unfortunately, I haven't gotten
the ADC module to work yet, and they're not sure what's wrong. . . so I
haven't tried the looping capabilities yet.

Anyway, (assuming they can get the problem fixed), you can do things
like create 8 synced stereo loopers, with changable ratios of loop
lengths (e.g., one loop looping in 5 and one in 7), with the ratio and
levels and record state of each controlled by yer Peavey 1600 MIDI fader
box.  Sync them to a set of virtual sequencers each driving a virtual
MiniMoog.  Save and restore setups for each song to disk.  Etc.


Imagine the Peavey 1600 fader box set up with 8 pairs of faders, one
pair for each looper.  Left fader of the pair controls how long the loop
is, continuously or in beats (whichever you like), right one controls
level.  Left button turns on record when the next beat comes around.
Looper automatically stops recording when the set loop length or number
of beats is over (no more trying to tap just at the right moment.)
Right button mutes the channel (or whatever you want).  As much loop
memory as yer PC has (yeah I know, I'm a Mac fan, too).

Throw in real-time processing on each of the loops, as well (e.g.,
chorusing, stereo crossfades, FM between two signals, whatever).  

I haven't messed with my faderbox enough to know, but it seems like you
could set it up to switch between a number of sets of midi channel
assignments, so you could flip the faderboard between controlling the
loops, and controlling the processing, as you were performing.


http://www.native-instruments.de/


I'll let folks know once I've got it working.


-------------      
Note: my email address is hacked as an anti-spam measure.  Please remove
the 'no-spam-' to reply to me.  Sorry for the inconvenience.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"New music is not a style, it is a quality" - Robert Fripp, as scratched
in the Sacred Songs LP runout grooves


From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 00:28:29 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 16:37:39 1998
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	id 0xvAdz-00041k-00; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:37:19 -0800
From: PMimlitsch <PMimlitsch@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3805645a.34c68f28@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:13:19 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, stickwire-l@netcom.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Subject: Stick/Loop Show
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"Explorations in Time and Space" - an evening of Soundscapes and
Improvisations w/Paul Mimlitsch (Chapman Stick¨/Loops) and J. Jody Janetta
(Percussion/Loops/Treated Voice). Day/Date-Sat. Jan. 24th. Place-Cafe Seattle
(354-2220),  Haddonfield, New Jersey.  (The corner of Haddon and Redman).
Time-8:00pm to closing.




From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 10:33:13 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 22 04:08:32 1998
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Message-ID: <34C696E8.988DEE85@bellsouth.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:46:32 -0500
From: Jeff Duke <jmar@bellsouth.net>
Reply-To: jmar@bellsouth.net
Organization: Tec Bab Labs
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Subject: music you dont hear on the radio
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Had to pass this on,I just found out that wrek,a local collage station
is in ra.well,just check it out!Ive listened to this station for 20
yrs.(no wonder!)Jeff Duke sr.http://www.gatech.edu/wrek/wrek.html



From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 01:36:30 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 22 01:25:29 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:12:19 -0500
From: Steve Cowan <sc@magic.ca>
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Is anybody else having similar problems?  Any suggestions where to go,
or why have they been on back order at the major stores for over 6
months?


From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 00:30:07 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 22 00:02:29 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:18:35 -0500 (EST)
From: CORROSIVE@aol.com
Message-ID: <980121211834_1363974257@mrin53>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: digitech RDS-8000
Resent-Message-ID: <"5cGq8D.A.T9C.cnvx0"@ferret>
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just wondering if there are any differences (other than rack mountness)
between the RDS-8000 & the PDS-8000. I love my Jamman & Oberheim DEP, but
consistantly find myself groovin on the lo-res loopsound of the PDS-8000 &
especially the Electro Harmonix super replay!  >>>thanks


From ???@??? Wed Jan 21 11:16:39 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 10:52:18 1998
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Me:
>>more functionality than the Zoom 508. If it had more memory and a "fade"
>>function, I'd trade my JM for a 508!!!

Travis:
>What do you mean by a "fade" function?

A way of dropping the feedback level.  The JM has three non-unity feedback
settings - "short","medium" and "long" fades.  Unfortunately, they're only
available via MIDI which rather hampers operation, hence my search to find
a pedal which activates one of the Fades.   BTW, thanks to everyone who
responded about the MIDI pedal - I think the MIDIsolutions pedal looks ideal.

Michael

PS   Lex people, what are the feedback levels for Fade?  I have no idea,
never having tried them....



From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 01:18:46 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 22 00:28:27 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:58:33 EST
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Subject: Re: Kyma (was: www-cycling74  wow.:)
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In a message dated 1/21/98 6:36:58 PM, Paolo wrote:

>Since you have a PC and not a Mac, maybe you should check out Kyma/Capybara
>by Symbolic Sound.  The beauty of Kyma/Capybara is that it runs on a 
>separate box loaded with DSPs instead of directly on your computer so it
>doesn't rob processing time from your computer.   The computer mainly serves
>as a controller for the box.   Symbolic Sound just started offering a 
>PCMIA card so that you can run Kyma on a laptop.   I don't know if it has 
>looping/overdubbing functions like the Echoplex but maybe it's worth a look.

>From what I know about the Kyma system, it should be able to perform looping
and overdubbing functions in real time, it is extremely flexible.....the only
downside is that a system would cost a little over $4000 right now, but then
again that isn't so bad if you compare it to an Eventide.....


Marshall


From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 00:30:08 1998
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Thanks John:

Our powerbook won't work but we'll download the software for the 7100.  Great
stuff.

Best,
the LoOpDoctOrs


From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 00:28:19 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 21 14:34:47 1998
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:50:43
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." <pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: New to looping/processing
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.93.980121123417.25256E-100000@apollo.gti.net>
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>if he's talking about feedback than it does it. I spent about 6 hours with
>my 508 yesterday, damn nice piece for a measily 100 bucks.

Wow! It does?  THis is a big problem with the 508 - the literature and
reviews are most non-loop-oriented, so one never finds out exactly what it
does.  Would anyone care to do a comprehensive review and post in on the LD
webpage?

>Do you have any info on the MIDI solutions pedal? 

Try www.midisolutions.com  The pedal costs $100 and is programmed via SysEx
messages.  Or they'll preprogram it for $20.

Michael



From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 10:33:00 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 22 01:52:10 1998
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 "innerspace@mediaone.net" at Jan 21, 98 03:42:29 pm
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 01:35:46 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: www-cycling74  wow.:)
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At 1:38 PM -0800 1/21/98, Paolo Valladolid wrote:
>> Curtis Bahn wrote:
>>
>> > Also check out MSP, David Zicarelli's signal processing extensions to MAX
>> > at http://www.cycling74.com.  If you have a powerpc computer you can
>>easily
>> > design custom looping and overdubbing algorithms (amoung many other
>> > things).  It's great !  Programs like MSP and LiSa are taking looping away
>> > from the restrictions of commercial hardware, to a whole new level of
>> > personal sound design and performance interaction.
>> > crb

One thing kind of troubling about the computer based systems for real-time
use is the latency problems. (meaning the time it would take for audio to
be sent in and sent back out again.) On the MSP site some typical latencies
are actually listed as:

Audio input to audio output latency on a 9600/300:
         Using the Digidesign Audiomedia III:      46ms
                     Using the Sound Manager:      294ms

that's definitely in the range where you would notice it in some
situations, especially with looping and trying to maintain precise grooves.
And this is on a very fast (and expensive) system! I know that PC's suffer
from the same problem. The audio has to go through a lot of operating
system to get to where it's useable, and a lot more operating system to get
out again.

So those of you using systems like these for real-time audio I/O, how do
you deal with that? Are you able to operate it with any timing precision
for real-time audio events? And I don't mean hard disk recording where the
system has opportunities to compensate for the latency. I mean audio really
going in and out, like you might have on a typical stand alone audio
processor. Anyone?

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com




From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 10:33:01 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 22 01:57:34 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 01:48:25 -0800
To: analogue@hyperreal.org, snuggles@kuci.org, loopers-delight@annihilist.com
From: cstecker@ovenguard.com (Chris Stecker)
Subject: Bay Area Event Saturday!
Resent-Message-ID: <"jTSFRD.A.kgF.uTxx0"@ferret>
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Attention Bay Area AH'ers, snugglers, and loopers:  you may be interested
in the event below.  Plenty of your fellow analogue enthusiasts,
experimental sound-collage artists and loop freaks will be performing, and
having a great time.  Come on out and meet us!

Apologies, of course, to those not local to the Bay Area, or not interested.

-Chris

------
AirSickBags Omnimedia+(NOISIA) & Ovenguard Music Present:

                    [OMNIMEDIA v.03]

~An Evening of Overlapping Experimental Electronic Mayhem~

Featuring electronic musicians, visual artists, and modifyers of technology
in a massive train wreck of son-optic proportions.

Saturday, January 24th, 8pm-1:30am
@ cell
2050 Bryant St, between 18th/19th
$7-10 slide
(all proceeds benefit the cell video projector fund!)
come early, there's a lot to see/hear


******electronix musicians:

Space Mesa-gourmet blend of sauteed samples gently tossed on a crisp bed of
vintage analogs, served with fresh-baked beats moderately sprinkled with
freshly-filtered reverb

univac&modrn-mind-controlled drum machines, modified toys, proximity
detector, powerbook, and analog madness

Gustavo and His MetaGraph-multi-armed, multi-output turntable, minimalism
through 16mm

Bran Flakes-Fractured Fragmented Formatted Flavor, featuring Rev. Otis F.
Odder, Das (of Big City Orchestra) and Phineas Narco

Wobbly-the workers' movement unites with the looming spectre of children's
stories for a twisted march toward a brighter, wobblier tomorrow

Involution-The "Hall & Oates" of experimental noise return from their
travels east with tantalizing textures and sizzling soundbits for a rare
San Francisco appearance

Wet Gate-multiple 16mm projector foundsoundsource collage

******electronix installations:

Wild Vectors-examine stark naked system software up-close and personal.
Presented LIVE in ACTION! -for your viewing pleasure, by Chris de Monterey
and Mike Kan

Memory Tank-languid dreams projected like memory onto your frontal lobes;
an audiovisual representation constructed by David Washington

Peter King-life-sized analog fractals, step on up!

Dan Doerner-Visual Sampling; Projections of Digital Art &
Animation...courtesy of Steinberg's Expose

EyeTribe-live multisource kaleidoscopic video degeneration

Imaja-the creator of "Bliss Paint" Greg Jalbert mixes up some algorithmic
goo for your visual pleasure

OptikalNutraSweet-a bucket of slides and a barrowful of 16mm

PLUS: Drive the Video Feedback Tractor!!

info: univac@sirius.com, cstecker@ovenguard.com

All acts and exhibits embrace the tenet of Trickle-Down Technology: The
tech you covet today, you'll find at a swap meet or garage sale tomorrow...


___________________________________________________________________________

Chris Stecker

cstecker@cogsci.berkeley.edu

Graduate Student, Psychoacoustics
3210 Tolman Hall, #1650
University of California, Berkeley
Berkeley CA 94720-1650

Auditory Lab, B-50 Tolman Hall, (510)642-5352   http://ear.berkeley.edu

!!Ask me about Space Mesa, Ovenguard Music, Receptacle Culture, and CELL!!




From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 10:34:25 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 22 09:44:22 1998
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Message-Id: <199801221641.IAA09594@scv4.apple.com>
Subject: "Door X" worth checking out
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 10:41:26 -0000
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From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
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>However, I hated Door X.  Trite rock music with none of what I
>consider Torn's distinctive stylings.  I think I remember singing.
>It's on Windham Hill, which used to be an OK label, but not known for
>their rock music.

I'd seen "Door X" slammed for years, but hadn't been able to find a copy 
to complete my Torn collection.  Recently I found one, and I like it.  If 
you don't like the singing, skip every other track, but I had no problem 
with the vocals.  

In no way would I describe this as "trite rock music".

Travis Hartnett


From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 10:33:05 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 22 03:00:02 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:58:51 -0500
From: Jeff Duke <jmar@bellsouth.net>
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Organization: Tec Bab Labs
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CC: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: can't find an echoplex in Toronto area
References: <34C6AB01.4A24@magic.ca>
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Steve,
I just got a catalog in the mail from Thoroughbred Music,out of
Forida.They have the Echoplex for sale at 639.95 w\12.5 sec.They can be
called at 800.800.4654,or e-mailed at sales@tbred-music.com,they also have
the 508 pedal for 99.00.
Jeff sr.

Steve Cowan wrote:

> Is anybody else having similar problems?  Any suggestions where to go,
> or why have they been on back order at the major stores for over 6
> months?





From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 10:33:13 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 22 04:20:45 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 06:44:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Stew Benedict <benedict@netcom.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: some torn live stuff
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  I've been meaning to mention I've recently been enjoying "Polytown",
thanks to a lead from this group.  David, if you're listening, this is
awesome stuff!  Does anyone have any leads on other Torn titles?  I find
"Cloud About Mercury" everywhere, been scouring closeouts and used shops
and found "Door X" once, but someone swiped the CD from the jewel case.
The combo of Torn, Karn, and Bozzio on "Polytown" is absolutely amazing.

Stew Benedict




From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 10:33:43 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 22 05:58:35 1998
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References: <199801212138.NAA25353@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
 <34C65DB5.AA3892C9@mediaone.net> from "innerspace@mediaone.net" at Jan
 21, 98 03:42:29 pm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:48:17 -0400
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Curtis Bahn <bahnc2@rpi.edu>
Subject: Re: www-cycling74  wow.:)
Resent-Message-ID: <"fjLah.A.sI.uz0x0"@ferret>
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X-Status: 

>At 1:38 PM -0800 1/21/98, Paolo Valladolid wrote:
>>> Curtis Bahn wrote:
>>>
>>> > Also check out MSP, David Zicarelli's signal processing extensions to MAX
>>> > at http://www.cycling74.com.  If you have a powerpc computer you can
>>>easily
>>> > design custom looping and overdubbing algorithms (amoung many other
>>> > things).  It's great !  Programs like MSP and LiSa are taking looping
>>>away
>>> > from the restrictions of commercial hardware, to a whole new level of
>>> > personal sound design and performance interaction.
>>> > crb

>kim flint wrote
>One thing kind of troubling about the computer based systems for real-time
>use is the latency problems. (meaning the time it would take for audio to
>be sent in and sent back out again.) On the MSP site some typical latencies
>are actually listed as:
>
>Audio input to audio output latency on a 9600/300:
>         Using the Digidesign Audiomedia III:      46ms
>                     Using the Sound Manager:      294ms
>
>that's definitely in the range where you would notice it in some
>situations, especially with looping and trying to maintain precise grooves.
>And this is on a very fast (and expensive) system! I know that PC's suffer
>from the same problem. The audio has to go through a lot of operating
>system to get to where it's useable, and a lot more operating system to get
>out again.
>
>So those of you using systems like these for real-time audio I/O, how do
>you deal with that? Are you able to operate it with any timing precision
>for real-time audio events? And I don't mean hard disk recording where the
>system has opportunities to compensate for the latency. I mean audio really
>going in and out, like you might have on a typical stand alone audio
>processor. Anyone?
>

Latency can be a real problem sometimes.  Especially on a powerbook, the
technology is not really there yet to have an inexpensive self-contained
system that can deal with all the audio processing and performance I/O in
real-time without some significant lag.

This is part of the justification of  KYMA  where you have a dedicated
external audio engine to execute your looping and signal processing
programs.  Systems like this and MARS have very powerful programming
environments for the musician to design their own performance algorithms.
More and more, development environments such as these combine complete
flexibility in terms of your sound designs, and easy, intuitive graphical
programming languages.  (info on these systems can be found at
http://www.emf.org/sites/software.html.)

It's just a matter of time until most all of our gadgets will offer some
level of this kind of interface.  A significant issue for me is, "what am I
gonna do with it once I have it."  For that reason alone, I spend a lot of
time on my powerbook hacking MAX/MSP.  In performance I get more realistic
about stuff like looping and either cart a couple of dedicated fast
computers along with me , or trim down the real-time signal processing on
my notebook computer and farm it out to my Echoplex, jam man, Boomerang or
EH16.

In some cases, like making rich ambient textures,  the latency just desn't
matter and it is a reasonable price to pay to be in control of more aspects
of what your signal processing device is doing.  We're certainly in a
transition period between hardware and software based models for our toys.
It's pretty exciting.  Especially in performance areas like looping (which
isn't that "expensive" in terms of computer processing and won't incur as
much latency as more complicated signal processing) this technology is
offering new creative, idiosyncratic opportunities for musicians.  It also
frees us from our traditional relationship to signal processing device
makers where we can often grovel and beg for a simple feature that would
make a world of difference to our music, but won't ever be implemented
generally because it isn't important enough to the market as a whole.

cheers,
crb










--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Curtis Bahn
iEAR Studios, DCC 135
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Troy, New York,
12180
office  (518) 276-4032
fax     (518) 276-4780
email    crb@rpi.edu




From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 10:33:50 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 22 06:10:43 1998
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From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree)
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
CC: benedict@netcom.com
In-reply-to: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980122063958.16586C-100000@moe.aysnet.com>
	(message from Stew Benedict on Thu, 22 Jan 1998 06:44:43 -0500 (EST))
Subject: Re: some torn live stuff
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>>>>> "Stew" == Stew Benedict <benedict@netcom.com> writes:

    Stew>   I've been meaning to mention I've recently been enjoying
    Stew> "Polytown", thanks to a lead from this group.  David, if
    Stew> you're listening, this is awesome stuff!  Does anyone have
    Stew> any leads on other Torn titles?  I find "Cloud About
    Stew> Mercury" everywhere, been scouring closeouts and used shops
    Stew> and found "Door X" once, but someone swiped the CD from the
    Stew> jewel case.  The combo of Torn, Karn, and Bozzio on
    Stew> "Polytown" is absolutely amazing.

Cloud about Mercury has the advantage of being generally available and
excellent.  It features what was at the time the King Crimson rhythm
section (Bill Bruford on percussion, including electronic; and Tony
Levin on bass and stick), plus Mark Isham on trumpet.  Highly
recommended.

However, I hated Door X.  Trite rock music with none of what I
consider Torn's distinctive stylings.  I think I remember singing.
It's on Windham Hill, which used to be an OK label, but not known for
their rock music.

CMP, Torn's most recent label, has gone under, so his solo disks on
that label are getting hard to find, but IMHO worth tracking down.
The ones to seek out are Tripping Over God and What Means Solid,
Traveler?  They are mostly solo Torn, although he overdubs percussion
and more than one guitar part.  I like these two very much as well,
and are probably most representative of his current work (Cloud about
Mercury must be at least 10 years old).

Mick Karn had a couple of albums on CMP, Bestial Cluster and Tooth
Mother, that I think featured Torn as well.  More singing than on
Polytown, but it worked well, and was not on every track.

And if you can find it, Torn was part of an outfit called Everyman
Band.  A web listing mentions Marty Fogel on sax, but I seem to
remember Shankar on violin.




---
Caleb T. Deupree
;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management

Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers.
(Pablo Picasso)



From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 10:33:57 1998
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From: MIvanBerk <MIvanBerk@aol.com>
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:12:48 EST
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The RDS adds an LFO for modulation effects.

-mike


From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 10:33:58 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 22 07:33:06 1998
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	"Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
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<html><HTML>
<FONT SIZE=-1>Latency can be a real problem sometimes.&nbsp; Especially
on a powerbook, the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>technology is not really there yet to have an inexpensive
self-contained</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>system that can deal with all the audio processing and
performance I/O in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>real-time without some significant lag.</FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-1>This is part of the justification of&nbsp; KYMA&nbsp;
where you have a dedicated</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>external audio engine to execute your looping and signal
processing</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>programs.&nbsp; Systems like this and MARS have very
powerful programming</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>environments for the musician to design their own performance
algorithms.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>More and more, development environments such as these
combine complete</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>flexibility in terms of your sound designs, and easy,
intuitive graphical</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>programming languages.&nbsp; (info on these systems can
be found at</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1><A HREF="http://www.emf.org/sites/software.html">http://www.emf.org/sites/software.html</A>.)</FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-1>It's just a matter of time until most all of our gadgets
will offer some</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>level of this kind of interface.&nbsp; A significant
issue for me is, "what am I</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>gonna do with it once I have it."&nbsp; For that reason
alone, I spend a lot of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>time on my powerbook hacking MAX/MSP.&nbsp; In performance
I get more realistic</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>about stuff like looping and either cart a couple of
dedicated fast</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>computers along with me , or trim down the real-time
signal processing on</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>my notebook computer and farm it out to my Echoplex,
jam man, Boomerang or</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>EH16.</FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-1>In some cases, like making rich ambient textures,&nbsp;
the latency just desn't</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>matter and it is a reasonable price to pay to be in control
of more aspects</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>of what your signal processing device is doing.&nbsp;
We're certainly in a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>transition period between hardware and software based
models for our toys.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>It's pretty exciting.&nbsp; Especially in performance
areas like looping (which</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>isn't that "expensive" in terms of computer processing
and won't incur as</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>much latency as more complicated signal processing) this
technology is</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>offering new creative, idiosyncratic opportunities for
musicians.&nbsp; It also</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>frees us from our traditional relationship to signal
processing device</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>makers where we can often grovel and beg for a simple
feature that would</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>make a world of difference to our music, but won't ever
be implemented</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>generally because it isn't important enough to the market
as a whole.</FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-1>cheers,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>crb</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;

<P><FONT SIZE=-1>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>Curtis Bahn</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>iEAR Studios, DCC 135</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>Troy, New York,</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;

<P>I would have to agree with the opinion that external dsp based audio
systems kick butt in a general and nonspecific way, and that we are moving
away from obsessive software/hardware based systems...&nbsp; I'd have to
say that I'd sell out immediately to the first company that created an
audio system that was built like a killer-computer (dedicated to audio
processing) but incorporated both the physical design features and the
functionality of the audio equipment that all this PC/Mac stuff is trying
to emulate...

<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; There are a number of systems out there that combine
ISA/PCI cards w/ external rackmountable interfaces.&nbsp; The most exciting
of these that I've been blessed to look at and drool at is the Layla system.&nbsp;
I'm not certain whether or not this type of system fits in to the same
category as KYMA or MARS, I'm guessing its just a bit less powerful than
these systems.... then again, Layla isn't $4000.00, so whats to be expected.

<P>uh oh, my mind doth wander....me done fergot me point....... gotta go
to work.

<P>bye bye.
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;</HTML>

</html>

From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 10:34:05 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 22 08:12:43 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:57:02 -0600
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Pat Murphy <pmurphy@gibson.com>
Subject: Echoplex Upgrade Chip Installation Tips
In-Reply-To: <v03102803b0ecc0a29c76@[207.171.198.69]>
References: <199801212138.NAA25353@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
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I packed and sent out close to 50 upgrade chip sets last week. I sent info
about what the upgrade does but no info on installing them. Sorry about
that. For those of you who subscribe to this list, here is some information
to help with the installation.

Open the Echoplex. There will be two chips. One is labeled even and the
other is labeled odd. Remove the chips and replace them with the new ones.
Be sure that even replaces even and odd replaces odd. Also, make sure that
the end of the chip that has the orientation indentation is oriented in the
same direction as the old chip. This is more important than the direction
of the label. Looking down on the circuit board from the front of the
Echoplex, the indentations should face to the left. After installing the
chips, you will need to reinitialize the Echoplex. With the Echoplex turned
off, hold down the parameter button and then turn the 'Plex on. Wait about
5 or 6 seconds or until the LEDs go through their power up routine. Turn
the power off and then back on. You should be good to go.
As with any chip installation, take any and all precautions to head off
static electricity. Avoid shag carpet.

thanks
Pat



From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 10:34:19 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 22 09:20:49 1998
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Message-Id: <199801221604.LAA04800@shell.monmouth.com>
Reply-To: <andre@monmouth.com>
From: "andre" <andre@monmouth.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Stick/Loop Show
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:04:27 -0500
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so - you are in jersy! bummer - i will miss your 24th gig - i'll be playing
in long island sat nite with my zappa tribute band (are you into zappa?)

but keep me posted - i love the stick - i played on a bill once where there
was a stick/perc duo.....

maybe we could set up a loop night at a club around here - the downtown
cafe in redbank... i'm also friends with Bon Lozaga - he's always looking
to do somethin' up this way (he's south jersey)

see ya!!

andre'

(see gig info under other mail)



andre@monmouth.com

----------
From: PMimlitsch <PMimlitsch@aol.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com; stickwire-l@netcom.com
Subject: Stick/Loop Show
Date: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 7:13 PM

"Explorations in Time and Space" - an evening of Soundscapes and
Improvisations w/Paul Mimlitsch (Chapman Stick¨/Loops) and J. Jody Janetta
(Percussion/Loops/Treated Voice). Day/Date-Sat. Jan. 24th. Place-Cafe
Seattle
(354-2220),  Haddonfield, New Jersey.  (The corner of Haddon and Redman).
Time-8:00pm to closing.



----------



From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 10:34:07 1998
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Reply-To: "Stefano Voulaz" <voulaz@korg.it>
From: "Stefano Voulaz" <voulaz@korg.it>
To: "Loopers!" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Hunting an Echoplex from Italy...
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:07:10 +0100
Message-ID: <01bd274f$cb8cbda0$6902a8c0@voulaz>
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Yo!
I know it's being difficult for you in US to get Echoplexes, but... is there
anyone able to suggest me some sources (shops) for buying one unit (my
second one, actually) via web? Looks like they're coming out of dark labs!
Many thanks... and happy looping!
The Uncle 8^)#



From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 10:33:56 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 22 07:26:11 1998
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Message-ID: <34C76F29.53DA@infobiogen.fr>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:09:13 +0000
From: Malhomme Olivier <malhomme@infobiogen.fr>
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Organization: I P L
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Pentatonic scales
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A close japanese friend sent me the different pentatonic scales used in
japanese music. I felt it could be of use to you all in case you would
look for other colors:

 MIYAKOBUSHI (For Koto, Shamisen)
D
Eb
G
A
Bb  (strings 5,6,7,8,9 for Koto, fundamental tuning)

RITSU (Don't know why...)
D
E
G
A
B

MINYOO (folk songs)
D
F
G
A
B

RYUUKYUU (OKINAWA music)
D
F#
G
A
C#

Olivier Malhomme


From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 10:34:13 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 22 08:52:23 1998
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From:	Dan Trueman <dan@silvertone.Princeton.EDU>
To:	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: www-cycling74 wow.:)
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"Just around the corner" is already here (sort of) in terms of 
latency: the Layla card offers latencies well under 10ms, and a bunch 
of folks are doing development for it. On an SGI running MAX/FTS (or 
other stuff), 
latencies can get as low as 2ms (but who wants to carry around an 
SGI? Well, actually, I probably would if I had one).

Even with the substantial latencies, I have found the uses of programs 
like LiSa to be really inspiring. It is also possible to learn how to 
"play" the latencies by slightly anticipating events. It's not ideal 
if you want really really tight timing, but given the flexibility, it 
may be worth it. Having an easily configurable sampling system that 
offers multiple-voice playback (as many as your CPU can handle: you 
can get lots more than 30 voices on some of the faster machines), 
transposition, looping, and signal processing is pretty exciting, and 
I've learned to work with the latency. 

But I also still farm stuff out to Jammen sometimes; I may not for 
long though...

Some people of been exploring the musical possibilities of HUGE 
latencies through internet jams. Last month some folks in NYC jammed 
with some other folks in Japan where latencies where up around 10 
seconds, at least! It's a feature, not a bug...

Dan

On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Curtis Bahn wrote:

> >At 1:38 PM -0800 1/21/98, Paolo Valladolid wrote:
> >>> Curtis Bahn wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > Also check out MSP, David Zicarelli's signal processing extensions to MAX
> >>> > at http://www.cycling74.com.  If you have a powerpc computer you can
> >>>easily
> >>> > design custom looping and overdubbing algorithms (amoung many other
> >>> > things).  It's great !  Programs like MSP and LiSa are taking looping
> >>>away
> >>> > from the restrictions of commercial hardware, to a whole new level of
> >>> > personal sound design and performance interaction.
> >>> > crb
> 
> >kim flint wrote
> >One thing kind of troubling about the computer based systems for real-time
> >use is the latency problems. (meaning the time it would take for audio to
> >be sent in and sent back out again.) On the MSP site some typical latencies
> >are actually listed as:
> >
> >Audio input to audio output latency on a 9600/300:
> >         Using the Digidesign Audiomedia III:      46ms
> >                     Using the Sound Manager:      294ms
> >
> >that's definitely in the range where you would notice it in some
> >situations, especially with looping and trying to maintain precise grooves.
> >And this is on a very fast (and expensive) system! I know that PC's suffer
> >from the same problem. The audio has to go through a lot of operating
> >system to get to where it's useable, and a lot more operating system to get
> >out again.
> >
> >So those of you using systems like these for real-time audio I/O, how do
> >you deal with that? Are you able to operate it with any timing precision
> >for real-time audio events? And I don't mean hard disk recording where the
> >system has opportunities to compensate for the latency. I mean audio really
> >going in and out, like you might have on a typical stand alone audio
> >processor. Anyone?
> >
> 
> Latency can be a real problem sometimes.  Especially on a powerbook, the
> technology is not really there yet to have an inexpensive self-contained
> system that can deal with all the audio processing and performance I/O in
> real-time without some significant lag.
> 
> This is part of the justification of  KYMA  where you have a dedicated
> external audio engine to execute your looping and signal processing
> programs.  Systems like this and MARS have very powerful programming
> environments for the musician to design their own performance algorithms.
> More and more, development environments such as these combine complete
> flexibility in terms of your sound designs, and easy, intuitive graphical
> programming languages.  (info on these systems can be found at
> http://www.emf.org/sites/software.html.)
> 
> It's just a matter of time until most all of our gadgets will offer some
> level of this kind of interface.  A significant issue for me is, "what am I
> gonna do with it once I have it."  For that reason alone, I spend a lot of
> time on my powerbook hacking MAX/MSP.  In performance I get more realistic
> about stuff like looping and either cart a couple of dedicated fast
> computers along with me , or trim down the real-time signal processing on
> my notebook computer and farm it out to my Echoplex, jam man, Boomerang or
> EH16.
> 
> In some cases, like making rich ambient textures,  the latency just desn't
> matter and it is a reasonable price to pay to be in control of more aspects
> of what your signal processing device is doing.  We're certainly in a
> transition period between hardware and software based models for our toys.
> It's pretty exciting.  Especially in performance areas like looping (which
> isn't that "expensive" in terms of computer processing and won't incur as
> much latency as more complicated signal processing) this technology is
> offering new creative, idiosyncratic opportunities for musicians.  It also
> frees us from our traditional relationship to signal processing device
> makers where we can often grovel and beg for a simple feature that would
> make a world of difference to our music, but won't ever be implemented
> generally because it isn't important enough to the market as a whole.
> 
> cheers,
> crb
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Curtis Bahn
> iEAR Studios, DCC 135
> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
> Troy, New York,
> 12180
> office  (518) 276-4032
> fax     (518) 276-4780
> email    crb@rpi.edu
> 
> 
> 


From ???@??? Thu Jan 22 10:34:18 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 22 09:20:44 1998
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Reply-To: <andre@monmouth.com>
From: "andre" <andre@monmouth.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: some torn rec. CDs
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:50:57 -0500
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dave t also has TRIPPING OVER GOD and WHAT MEANS SOLID, TRAVELLER.. on the
defunct CMP - tho i got one store to order it for me.... get them fast !!!!

also on some Mark Isham discs - very cool jazz/ambient trumpet player....
he's on CLOUD, of course

a killer one to get is the Mick Karn CDs TOOTH MOTHER & BESTIAL CLUSTER 

DT is on both and they rule. Mick rules. what the hell is he doing right
now??

also - i forget the title, BEST LAID PLANS  (??) i think it's on ECM so you
can actually get it! -it's a DT duo album with a percussionist - cool,
loopy, ambient stuff, his rig was a merely mortal at that point, it seems. 

DT should join AZA for a tour/CD - AZA is will calhoun (does tons of
looping with a jamman and a korg wavedrum) and doug wimbush (bassist with a
rig from hell, with several looping devices on the floor and in - rack) -
these guys were the living colour rhythm section , they now have this
group, with bernie worrell and a floating sax player.

andre@monmouth.com

----------
> From: Stew Benedict <benedict@netcom.com>
> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Subject: Re: some torn live stuff
> Date: Thursday, January 22, 1998 6:44 AM
> 
> 
>   I've been meaning to mention I've recently been enjoying "Polytown",
> thanks to a lead from this group.  David, if you're listening, this is
> awesome stuff!  Does anyone have any leads on other Torn titles?  I find
> "Cloud About Mercury" everywhere, been scouring closeouts and used shops
> and found "Door X" once, but someone swiped the CD from the jewel case.
> The combo of Torn, Karn, and Bozzio on "Polytown" is absolutely amazing.
> 
> Stew Benedict
> 
> 
> 


From ???@??? Fri Jan 23 10:14:46 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 23 07:26:35 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:22:58 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Darcy Clark <darcyc@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: looping over the Internet - one day hopefully  !
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It occurs to me that looping would be particularly suited to internet
jamming, as latency could be accommodated by using longish loop times, and
by only adding contributions to the loop at the start of the next loop. All
we need now is a TCP/IP-aware Jamman upgrade !!!  ;)

>Some people of been exploring the musical possibilities of HUGE
>latencies through internet jams. Last month some folks in NYC jammed
>with some other folks in Japan where latencies where up around 10
>seconds, at least! It's a feature, not a bug...


Darcy Clark
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Materials Science and Engineering Department
University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI, 48109-2136
USA
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Room    2130, Dow Building
Phone   (734) 764 3377
Fax     (734)  763 4788
E-mail  darcyc@engin.umich.edu
http://msewww.engin.umich.edu/mse250
http://msewww.engin.umich.edu/people/darcyc/
http://mseadmin.engin.umich.edu:591/
http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~darcyc/
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++




From ???@??? Fri Jan 23 01:11:29 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 22 10:30:59 1998
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From: "Matt McCabe" <mattm@bi-tech.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: "Door X" worth checking out
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:21:18 -0800
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> From: T.W. Hartnett <hartnett.t@apple.com>

> I'd seen "Door X" slammed for years, but hadn't been able to find a copy 
> to complete my Torn collection.  Recently I found one, and I like it.  If

> you don't like the singing, skip every other track, but I had no problem 
> with the vocals.  

I like Door X as well.  The last track, which I believe is called Door X,
features IMO one of Torn's most emotional and beautiful solos ever.  A
personal favorite.

Matt


From ???@??? Fri Jan 23 01:13:42 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 23 00:38:48 1998
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Date: 22 Jan 1998 10:36:56 -0800
From: "Hartnett, Travis" <Hartnett#m#_Travis@msgate.apple.com>
Subject: FS: JamMan $350
To: "Loopers Delight postings" <loopers-delight@annihilist.com>
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lexicon jamman / micro moog / juno 60/ mackie 1202

Asking Price: US$350
Condition: Excellent
Age: N/A
Description:

       i am wanting to sell the following equipment:

       Lexicon Jamman - $350.00 (phrase sampler / delay)
       Micro Moog - $200.00 (single voice analog synth)
       Mackie 1202 - $300.00 (12 channel mixing board)
       Roland Juno 60 - $200.00 (analog synth)

       all work great...contact either by phone or e-mail for further
       info...

       ph - 702-322-7986 (ask for vance)
       e-mail - dvinn@usa.net

Seller: vance christiaens, 702-322-7986
E-mail: dvinn@usa.net
Location: RENO, NV
Post Date: 1/22/98


From ???@??? Fri Jan 23 01:13:46 1998
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Date: 22 Jan 1998 11:29:08 -0800
From: "Hartnett, Travis" <Hartnett#m#_Travis@msgate.apple.com>
Subject: FS: Vortex
To: "Loopers Delight postings" <loopers-delight@annihilist.com>
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FS: Lexicon Vortex

Asking Price: US$N/A
Condition: Good
Age: 3 months
Description:

       Lexicon Vortex
       A few scratches.
       Power supply, footswitch, and manual included.
       Please email serious bids to jfm3@acm.org.

Seller: Joe Miklojcik, 7324453026
E-mail: jfm3@acm.org
Location: SOMERSET, NJ
Post Date: 1/21/98


From ???@??? Fri Jan 23 01:12:00 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 22 14:47:06 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:53:33 -0500
From: David White <dwhite@arbortext.com>
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That was discussed recently. Does anyone know if this Philips made
analog/digital input capable CD R/RW recorder is available for sale in the US?
Where? Any other brand names with equivs in the same price range?

Tanks,
Dave



From ???@??? Fri Jan 23 01:11:59 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 22 14:40:53 1998
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:11:55 -0500
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I agree with Travis,Door x,while not Cloud About Mercury was a great
album(yes I have the vinyl)Torn is one of the great loopers of our time(whoa,
profundity!).The vocals were a surprise to me but I wish that I could sing
like that!
Jeff Duke sr.

T.W. Hartnett wrote:

> >However, I hated Door X.  Trite rock music with none of what I
> >consider Torn's distinctive stylings.  I think I remember singing.
> >It's on Windham Hill, which used to be an OK label, but not known for
> >their rock music.
>
> I'd seen "Door X" slammed for years, but hadn't been able to find a copy
> to complete my Torn collection.  Recently I found one, and I like it.  If
> you don't like the singing, skip every other track, but I had no problem
> with the vocals.
>
> In no way would I describe this as "trite rock music".
>
> Travis Hartnett





From ???@??? Fri Jan 23 01:12:05 1998
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In a message dated 1/22/98 2:55:38 AM, you wrote:

<<just wondering if there are any differences (other than rack mountness)
between the RDS-8000 & the PDS-8000.>>

The main difference between the PDS and RDS 8000s, I've found, is not in the
physical features (knobs/settings etc) but in the decay of the repeated/looped
signal.  Seems that the decay on the RDS is a little longer than that of the
PDS when both are at 8 sec.delay. - Paul


From ???@??? Fri Jan 23 01:12:26 1998
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Hey,

For what the JamMan does for the money it sold for ($350 new) it was a
great product and nothing touched it or touches it for anywhere near that
price.

On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, T.W. Hartnett wrote:

> >I think (and we could do this to death) that unless you're _really_ going
> >to get into looping (and get an EDP), the JM was just too expensive at its
> >original price.  Sound quality apart, most people don't want a helluvalot
> >more functionality than the Zoom 508. If it had more memory and a "fade"
> >function, I'd trade my JM for a 508!!!
> 
> What do you mean by a "fade" function?
> 
> Travis Hartnett
> 



From ???@??? Fri Jan 23 01:13:08 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 22 21:24:38 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:03:05 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree)
Subject: Torn and Door X -- an apology
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Based on the positive reactions which Door X got earlier today on this
list, I dug up my old copy and listened to it again, and it was *much*
better than I remembered (although I still prefer his more experimental
work).  Thanks for the admonishments which got me to listen to it again.  I
also noticed a couple of listings for it at www.gemm.com, a clearinghouse
for various new and used CD dealers.  They also had the oop CMP albums, at
ridiculously high prices.

There is a web site on Torn at http://ott-outreach.engin.umich.edu/torn/,
although it doesn't appear to have been updated lately.

--
Caleb Deupree
cdeupree@interagp.com
cdeupree@erinet.com

Computers are useless; they can only give you answers
-- Pablo Picasso



From ???@??? Fri Jan 23 01:13:25 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 22 23:37:22 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 02:14:03 -0500
From: Michael Peters <MPeters@compuserve.com>
Subject: David Torn loop CDs
Sender: Michael Peters <MPeters@compuserve.com>
To: "'INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
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okay, talking about DoorX and Torn's other CDs - maybe not everyone on the
list is aware of Torn's awesome loop CDs 'Tonal Textures' and 'Pandora's
Toolbox'. 

The Tonal Textures cover says: 

>Unusual sonic landscapes and unique 
>atmospheres for use as musical 
>backgrounds in multi-media, 
>film scoring, composition, 
>and music production.

About Pandora's Toolbox, Torn wrote,

>'pandora' is a bit different:
>much more material than t.t., 
>so it had to be set-up a little more
>efficiently for sampling-peoples.

The problem with these 2 CDs is that they're not regular audio CDs
(although they can be played on regular CD players) but supposed to be
sample CDs - they are available from Q-Up Arts (check their website) for a
*very* high price which kept me from buying Pandora's Toolbox, but I spent
the money for Tonal Textures because Torn played it before his 'Slipping
over God' solo concert and I immediately fell in love with it. Very
beautiful, you'll sure like it if you are into, say, Enoesque atmospheres.
Definitely recommended stuff.

___________
Michael Peters   
        http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters
HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want"
        http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm



From ???@??? Fri Jan 23 10:13:14 1998
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Dan Trueman wrote:
> 
> OK, I found the specific link you need:
> 
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~steim/lisa.html
> 
> Pretty cool; I've used it a lot in performance. It has never crashed,
> and it is quite flexible... You can download a demo from them.

Got a friend with a Power Mac to download this & we had a play last
night.
Very impressed! I'm sure it has loads of possibilities I haven't even
thought of yet.

Achieved a nice effect by having a 20 second sample buffer with three
overlapping zones, all recording (looping with 90% feedback), and also a
zone covering the whole buffer playing it at double and half speed.

I have to say though that the demo version crashed repeatedly.

If it had more inbuilt DSP effects, or you could run it alongside Cubase
VST, I think my friend would buy it.

-- 
Os
os@millennium.co.uk
http://webworlds.net/os/


From ???@??? Fri Jan 23 10:14:00 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 23 03:47:45 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 03:20:01 -0700
From: William Moyer <vargo2muse@earthlink.net>
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I'm interested in the Jamman .  Does it have the memory upgrade?
Thanks, Bill



From ???@??? Fri Jan 23 10:13:25 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 23 02:31:13 1998
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Message-ID: <34C878F3.7DA2@infobiogen.fr>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:03:17 +0000
From: Malhomme Olivier <malhomme@infobiogen.fr>
Reply-To: malhomme@infobiogen.fr
Organization: I P L
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Well, a litle word about door X I consider a good album. It is certainly
song oriented (is that bad) and a piece like the second track with M.
Karn on bass is (to me)  a jewel...
This has the exact value of 2 cents

Olivier Malhomme


From ???@??? Fri Jan 23 10:14:54 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 23 08:07:20 1998
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Date:	Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:47:00 -0500 (EST)
From:	Dan Trueman <dan@silvertone.princeton.edu>
To:	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: LiSa (was Re: New to looping/processing)
In-Reply-To: <34C86972.5B9F9061@scee.sony.co.uk>
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> 
> I have to say though that the demo version crashed repeatedly.

Hmmmm... I've abused it for literally 100s, maybe 1000s of hours, 
without a single crash.

> If it had more inbuilt DSP effects, or you could run it alongside Cubase
> VST, I think my friend would buy it.

Did you try running it along with Cubase? It runs in the background 
nicely with Director (also playing lots of audio) or Max.

Also, the Patterns offer a wide variety of customizable, albeit 
crude, effects that can really mangle stuff. Fun...

Cheers,
Dan



From ???@??? Fri Jan 23 10:14:55 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 23 08:11:04 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:51:43 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Rich Rath <rcr@way.net>
Subject: Re: looping over the Internet - one day hopefully  !
In-Reply-To: <v03007804b0ed2fb95dc6@[141.212.131.224]>
References: < <Pine.SGI.3.91.980122110251.16654A-100000@silvertone.Princeton.EDU>
 <l03130300b0ece5a46067@[38.26.86.193]>
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I used to mess around with reel-to-reels in the late seventies to try to
get looping echoes...A friend had a deck with the record and playback heads
widely separated and you could get about a 3/4 sec. delay that could either
build up by using a physically looped tape or get just one feedback cycle
on a regular tape.  The one-cycle version would feed the playback head
signal back into the record signal instantly and let you play along with a
delay.  But because the playback head was a couple of inches away, you
would get a 3/4 second latency time between when you played a note and when
you heard it.  This had a very peculiar effect--It was like you were
constantly playing off of somebody elses riffs (which were in fact what you
just played) while never actually hearing your own playing playing against
a 3/4 sec echo of itself...It was annoying for a while, but the mind is a
curiously adaptable thing, I think, and I found that I would play more
thoughtfully in some respects--it helped me become more aware of the
listening and thinking parts of playing, and the timing offset (i.e.,
latency)  made interesting loopish connections happen...Alas it was my
wealthy army brat friend's deck, and he moved away...

Rich Rath  

At 12:22 PM 1/22/98 -0500, you wrote:
>It occurs to me that looping would be particularly suited to internet
>jamming, as latency could be accommodated by using longish loop times, and
>by only adding contributions to the loop at the start of the next loop. All
>we need now is a TCP/IP-aware Jamman upgrade !!!  ;)
>
>>Some people of been exploring the musical possibilities of HUGE
>>latencies through internet jams. Last month some folks in NYC jammed
>>with some other folks in Japan where latencies where up around 10
>>seconds, at least! It's a feature, not a bug...

:..::.:.::..:..::.:.::..:..::.:.::..:..::.:.::..:..::.:.::..:..::.:.::..
:.::.. rcr@way.net :..::.:.::.. http://way.net :..::.
:..::.:.::..:..::.:.::..:..::.:.::..:..::.:.::..:..::.:.::..:..::.:.::..


From ???@??? Fri Jan 23 10:14:58 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 23 08:23:55 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:04:00 +0000
From: Os <os@scee.sony.co.uk>
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Dan Trueman wrote:
> 
> >
> > I have to say though that the demo version crashed repeatedly.
> 
> Hmmmm... I've abused it for literally 100s, maybe 1000s of hours,
> without a single crash.

So we see the difference between buying hardware and buying software...
you never know quite what the software will do for you, because there
are so many other variables.

The thing that seemed to crash it was manually releasing the midi
sustain on a channel (by clicking on the green box).


But I don't want to put people off - it's a fantastic bit of software.

-- 
Os
os@millennium.co.uk
http://webworlds.net/os/


From ???@??? Sat Jan 24 00:49:24 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 23 14:06:40 1998
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Message-ID: <34C90D03.1850A304@bellsouth.net>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:35:00 -0500
From: Jeff Duke <jmar@bellsouth.net>
Reply-To: jmar@bellsouth.net
Organization: Tec Bab Labs
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: looping over the Internet - one day hopefully  !
References: <l03130300b0ece5a46067@[38.26.86.193]> <v03007804b0ed2fb95dc6@[141.212.131.224]>
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I have been pondering how this could be accomplished myself.I have heard about
jamming with midi over the internet but audio?hmmm,maybe bandwith is god(small
g)
Jeff Duke sr.
Darcy Clark wrote:

> It occurs to me that looping would be particularly suited to internet
> jamming, as latency could be accommodated by using longish loop times, and
> by only adding contributions to the loop at the start of the next loop. All
> we need now is a TCP/IP-aware Jamman upgrade !!!  ;)
>
> >Some people of been exploring the musical possibilities of HUGE
> >latencies through internet jams. Last month some folks in NYC jammed
> >with some other folks in Japan where latencies where up around 10
> >seconds, at least! It's a feature, not a bug...
>
> Darcy Clark
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Materials Science and Engineering Department
> University of Michigan
> Ann Arbor, MI, 48109-2136
> USA
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Room    2130, Dow Building
> Phone   (734) 764 3377
> Fax     (734)  763 4788
> E-mail  darcyc@engin.umich.edu
> http://msewww.engin.umich.edu/mse250
> http://msewww.engin.umich.edu/people/darcyc/
> http://mseadmin.engin.umich.edu:591/
> http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~darcyc/
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++





From ???@??? Sat Jan 24 00:49:33 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 23 14:49:00 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:59:46 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com>
Subject: Re: looping over the Internet - one day hopefully  !
Resent-Message-ID: <"SKByTD.A.eWG.UMRy0"@ferret>
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We were working on this idea at g-wiz several years ago. It's an interesting
concept, with some unique challenges and possibilities. Unfortunately, most
of the people working on it got fired right about the time they were about
to produce some initial demos, so nothing came of it. Gibson never had a
clue what they lost when they did that. too bad....

kim

At 04:35 PM 1/23/98 -0500, Jeff Duke wrote:
>I have been pondering how this could be accomplished myself.I have heard about
>jamming with midi over the internet but audio?hmmm,maybe bandwith is god(small
>g)
>Jeff Duke sr.
>Darcy Clark wrote:
>
>> It occurs to me that looping would be particularly suited to internet
>> jamming, as latency could be accommodated by using longish loop times, and
>> by only adding contributions to the loop at the start of the next loop. All
>> we need now is a TCP/IP-aware Jamman upgrade !!!  ;)
>>
>> >Some people of been exploring the musical possibilities of HUGE
>> >latencies through internet jams. Last month some folks in NYC jammed
>> >with some other folks in Japan where latencies where up around 10
>> >seconds, at least! It's a feature, not a bug...
>>
________________________________________________________
Kim Flint		       408-752-9284
Mpact System Engineering       kflint@chromatic.com
Chromatic Research             http://www.chromatic.com



From ???@??? Sat Jan 24 00:50:08 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 23 19:26:08 1998
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Message-ID: <34C91F7D.65BB21FB@bellsouth.net>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:53:49 -0500
From: Jeff Duke <jmar@bellsouth.net>
Reply-To: jmar@bellsouth.net
Organization: Tec Bab Labs
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Subject: Re: looping over the Internet - one day hopefully  !
References: <l03130300b0ece5a46067@[38.26.86.193]> <v03007804b0ed2fb95dc6@[141.212.131.224]> <34C90D03.1850A304@bellsouth.net>
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Wow I can see it now;a loop heard round the world(sorry).But really the
delay(latencies) could be the beauty of the thing!It could be recorded from
different points around the world and then mixed in various ways by all
concerned.Tell me it could'nt be done,no don't.
Jeff

Jeff Duke wrote:

> I have been pondering how this could be accomplished myself.I have heard about
> jamming with midi over the internet but audio?hmmm,maybe bandwith is god(small
> g)
> Jeff Duke sr.
> Darcy Clark wrote:
>
> > It occurs to me that looping would be particularly suited to internet
> > jamming, as latency could be accommodated by using longish loop times, and
> > by only adding contributions to the loop at the start of the next loop. All
> > we need now is a TCP/IP-aware Jamman upgrade !!!  ;)
> >
> > >Some people of been exploring the musical possibilities of HUGE
> > >latencies through internet jams. Last month some folks in NYC jammed
> > >with some other folks in Japan where latencies where up around 10
> > >seconds, at least! It's a feature, not a bug...
> >
> > Darcy Clark
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > Materials Science and Engineering Department
> > University of Michigan
> > Ann Arbor, MI, 48109-2136
> > USA
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > Room    2130, Dow Building
> > Phone   (734) 764 3377
> > Fax     (734)  763 4788
> > E-mail  darcyc@engin.umich.edu
> > http://msewww.engin.umich.edu/mse250
> > http://msewww.engin.umich.edu/people/darcyc/
> > http://mseadmin.engin.umich.edu:591/
> > http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~darcyc/
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++





From ???@??? Sat Jan 24 00:50:40 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 23 22:14:10 1998
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:54:25 -0600
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Tom Spaulding <tspauldi@gibson.com>
Subject: Re: looping over the Internet - one day hopefully  !
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I think we may still have a clue! ;)

Tom


At 03:59 PM 1/23/98 -0600, you wrote:
>We were working on this idea at g-wiz several years ago. It's an interesting
>concept, with some unique challenges and possibilities. Unfortunately, most
>of the people working on it got fired right about the time they were about
>to produce some initial demos, so nothing came of it. Gibson never had a
>clue what they lost when they did that. too bad....
>
>kim
>
>At 04:35 PM 1/23/98 -0500, Jeff Duke wrote:
>>I have been pondering how this could be accomplished myself.I have heard
about
>>jamming with midi over the internet but audio?hmmm,maybe bandwith is
god(small
>>g)
>>Jeff Duke sr.
>>Darcy Clark wrote:
>>
>>> It occurs to me that looping would be particularly suited to internet
>>> jamming, as latency could be accommodated by using longish loop times, and
>>> by only adding contributions to the loop at the start of the next loop.
All
>>> we need now is a TCP/IP-aware Jamman upgrade !!!  ;)
>>>
>>> >Some people of been exploring the musical possibilities of HUGE
>>> >latencies through internet jams. Last month some folks in NYC jammed
>>> >with some other folks in Japan where latencies where up around 10
>>> >seconds, at least! It's a feature, not a bug...
>>>
>________________________________________________________
>Kim Flint		       408-752-9284
>Mpact System Engineering       kflint@chromatic.com
>Chromatic Research             http://www.chromatic.com
>
>
>
>


From ???@??? Sat Jan 24 00:49:39 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 23 16:12:55 1998
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	id 0xvtD7-00054a-00; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:12:33 -0800
Message-ID: <34C92738.C8EB63EE@bellsouth.net>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 18:26:48 -0500
From: Jeff Duke <jmar@bellsouth.net>
Reply-To: jmar@bellsouth.net
Organization: Tec Bab Labs
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: looping over the Internet - one day hopefully  !
References: <2.2.32.19980123215946.0094b800@pop.chromatic.com>
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Well,we can't let a little thing like corporate visionary's(oxymoron?)stop us.Of
course I'm speaking from a completely naive viewpoint as I have had very little
experiance
with computers or the internet.It just seemed like an impossibility 1 mo. ago that
I would have a web page and the other things that I have seen/heard on the
internet,even though it does seem to be a high-tech covered wagon at times,lead me
to believe that we "ain't seen nothin' yet" and the future of the direction and
possibilities are ultimately up to the ones who go ahead with or without any
support.
sorry for the diatribe,
Jeff Duke sr.
TecBabLabs,I know it looks and sounds funny,but then so do I
http://members.tripod.com/~dukesr/index.html


Kim Flint wrote:

> We were working on this idea at g-wiz several years ago. It's an interesting
> concept, with some unique challenges and possibilities. Unfortunately, most
> of the people working on it got fired right about the time they were about
> to produce some initial demos, so nothing came of it. Gibson never had a
> clue what they lost when they did that. too bad....
>
> kim
>
> At 04:35 PM 1/23/98 -0500, Jeff Duke wrote:
> >I have been pondering how this could be accomplished myself.I have heard about
> >jamming with midi over the internet but audio?hmmm,maybe bandwith is god(small
> >g)
> >Jeff Duke sr.
> >Darcy Clark wrote:
> >
> >> It occurs to me that looping would be particularly suited to internet
> >> jamming, as latency could be accommodated by using longish loop times, and
> >> by only adding contributions to the loop at the start of the next loop. All
> >> we need now is a TCP/IP-aware Jamman upgrade !!!  ;)
> >>
> >> >Some people of been exploring the musical possibilities of HUGE
> >> >latencies through internet jams. Last month some folks in NYC jammed
> >> >with some other folks in Japan where latencies where up around 10
> >> >seconds, at least! It's a feature, not a bug...
> >>
> ________________________________________________________
> Kim Flint                      408-752-9284
> Mpact System Engineering       kflint@chromatic.com
> Chromatic Research             http://www.chromatic.com





From ???@??? Sat Jan 24 00:50:06 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 23 19:21:14 1998
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From: ZeplinSoup <ZeplinSoup@aol.com>
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last year sometime I think Cakewalk music software,in collaboration with
thunder fingers himself (John Entwitsle) sp huh oh well..anyway they did the
first Live Internet Jam using ISDN lines in two remote locations.sorry guys I
had a magazine article somewhere---I just looked for it ---that had a midi
internet jam with many people.
we have seen some pretty amazing music technology which is very new.I am
thrilled with possibilies---like wouldnt it be cool to control stage lighting
effects via midi and midi sequencing so that colors swirl and undulate in
precision with the music.Some very starling performances to a future surprised
(  dessert anyone?) audience as I am convinced that art + music will be one of
the next frontiers....
Reeve


From ???@??? Sat Jan 24 00:50:00 1998
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At 06:26 PM 1/23/98 -0500, Jeff Duke wrote:
>the future of the direction and
>possibilities are ultimately up to the ones who go ahead with or without any
>support.

That pretty much defines all of the developments that have happened with
looping up to this point. Certainly all the ones I've been involved with.
Hasn't exactly been a get-rich-quick scheme....

kim
________________________________________________________
Kim Flint		       408-752-9284
Mpact System Engineering       kflint@chromatic.com
Chromatic Research             http://www.chromatic.com



From ???@??? Sat Jan 24 00:50:11 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 23 19:52:04 1998
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From: Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com>
Subject: Re: looping over the Internet - one day hopefully  !
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At 07:20 PM 1/23/98 EST, ZeplinSoup wrote:
>last year sometime I think Cakewalk music software,in collaboration with
>thunder fingers himself (John Entwitsle) sp huh oh well..anyway they did the
>first Live Internet Jam using ISDN lines in two remote locations.sorry guys I
>had a magazine article somewhere---I just looked for it ---that had a midi
>internet jam with many people.

hmm. I think this was first done longer than a year ago, actually. I recall
a san francisco based technology/performance artist doing something like
this, with multiple musicians in different locations, playing over the net.
Seems like it was at least two years ago, but I'm not real sure.

>we have seen some pretty amazing music technology which is very new.I am
>thrilled with possibilies---like wouldnt it be cool to control stage lighting
>effects via midi and midi sequencing so that colors swirl and undulate in
>precision with the music.Some very starling performances to a future surprised
>(  dessert anyone?) audience as I am convinced that art + music will be one of
>the next frontiers....

You could do that now, with Midi Show Control and typical lighting rigs.
Also, I once talked to a guy at a laserium show who said all his laser stuff
was controlled by midi. So there ya go, no reason to wait. You could
probably set up Max patches that react to musical events by doing particular
things with the lights, and then improvise it all. My neighbor does really
creative lighting for raves and clubs as a hobby, I'll ask him about that
sometime. He'd probably know what gear is available.

kim
________________________________________________________
Kim Flint		       408-752-9284
Mpact System Engineering       kflint@chromatic.com
Chromatic Research             http://www.chromatic.com



From ???@??? Sat Jan 24 00:50:14 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 23 20:31:03 1998
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From: ZeplinSoup <ZeplinSoup@aol.com>
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 23:11:35 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: midi cable lenght induced latnecy?
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should I buy a new cable??my current cable wraps around 3 football fields!


...or 

is a midi cable like an electricity wire where the transfer is instant beacue
it entering one elctron on one end simply pushes the last one out on the other
end.....

Reeve


From ???@??? Sat Jan 24 00:50:17 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 23 21:01:02 1998
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Subject: Re: midi cable lenght induced latnecy?
Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
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At 11:11 PM 1/23/98 EST, ZeplinSoup wrote:
>should I buy a new cable??my current cable wraps around 3 football fields!

wow! I'm feeling very inadequate.

>...or 
>
>is a midi cable like an electricity wire where the transfer is instant beacue
>it entering one elctron on one end simply pushes the last one out on the other
>end.....

It IS an electrical wire. As such, there is a delay for any waveform to
travel from one end to the other, but that delay is going to be extremely
short. (nothing is instant.) In fact, you would probably need thousands of
miles of cable before you would even begin to notice it. This cable delay is
waaaaaaaay smaller than midi delays incurred by the processors in the thing
transmitting and the thing receiving the midi data.

With very long cable you do risk problem with signal loss. The resistance of
a very, very long cable might cause the signal to get too small and the
receiver at the midi in jack might not be able to pick up the data. You'd
notice that, because stuff wouldn't work.

kim
________________________________________________________
Kim Flint		       408-752-9284
Mpact System Engineering       kflint@chromatic.com
Chromatic Research             http://www.chromatic.com



From ???@??? Sat Jan 24 00:50:20 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 23 21:36:14 1998
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From: Grover Sheffield <gls@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Hello...  
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Hi Laurie,
        good to see you.  Hope your rack (and mind and heart, of course)
expansion is going well.  I really like reading your stuff.  Later...Grover 



At 04:45 PM 1/20/98 -0800, you wrote:

>I play bass, mostly.  Just recently started making more elaborate loops with a 
>"plex n' tex" rack expansion.  (As in echo- and vor-.  Sounds like something 
>that is done at a neo-gothic plastic surgeon's joint.  Yikes.)
>
>You've certainly come to the right place to talk loops.  (Does that mean we
end 
>up repeating ourselves a lot?)  There are some incredibly knowledgeable and 
>helpful people hangin out here, if a little twisted.  %^)  Moebius Strippers? 
> I'd better stop now.
>
>ciao --
>laurie
>
>
>
>
>
>



From ???@??? Sat Jan 24 14:36:05 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 24 03:01:52 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 06:09:30 -0500
From: Jeff Duke <jmar@bellsouth.net>
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I've got to check out that AZA.Living Colour were a fantastic band,and bernie
worrell,wow.Anybody else like or heard of Praxis?It,s a Bill Laswell creation
with various lineups including worrel,bootsy collins, john
zorn,buckethead,brain and tons of others.
Jeff

andre wrote:

> dave t also has TRIPPING OVER GOD and WHAT MEANS SOLID, TRAVELLER.. on the
> defunct CMP - tho i got one store to order it for me.... get them fast !!!!
>
> also on some Mark Isham discs - very cool jazz/ambient trumpet player....
> he's on CLOUD, of course
>
> a killer one to get is the Mick Karn CDs TOOTH MOTHER & BESTIAL CLUSTER
>
> DT is on both and they rule. Mick rules. what the hell is he doing right
> now??
>
> also - i forget the title, BEST LAID PLANS  (??) i think it's on ECM so you
> can actually get it! -it's a DT duo album with a percussionist - cool,
> loopy, ambient stuff, his rig was a merely mortal at that point, it seems.
>
> DT should join AZA for a tour/CD - AZA is will calhoun (does tons of
> looping with a jamman and a korg wavedrum) and doug wimbush (bassist with a
> rig from hell, with several looping devices on the floor and in - rack) -
> these guys were the living colour rhythm section , they now have this
> group, with bernie worrell and a floating sax player.
>
> andre@monmouth.com
>
> ----------
> > From: Stew Benedict <benedict@netcom.com>
> > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> > Subject: Re: some torn live stuff
> > Date: Thursday, January 22, 1998 6:44 AM
> >
> >
> >   I've been meaning to mention I've recently been enjoying "Polytown",
> > thanks to a lead from this group.  David, if you're listening, this is
> > awesome stuff!  Does anyone have any leads on other Torn titles?  I find
> > "Cloud About Mercury" everywhere, been scouring closeouts and used shops
> > and found "Door X" once, but someone swiped the CD from the jewel case.
> > The combo of Torn, Karn, and Bozzio on "Polytown" is absolutely amazing.
> >
> > Stew Benedict
> >
> >
> >





From ???@??? Sat Jan 24 14:36:09 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 24 04:06:05 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 07:01:25 -0500
From: buzzard@world.std.com (Sean T Barrett)
Message-Id: <199801241201.AA24772@world.std.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: looping over the Internet - one day hopefully  !
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>Could latency be overcome in part by having everything run to some kind of
>Sync track, the way JamMan handles phrased loops; ultimately everyone would
>be out of sync but by exactly 1/2/4 bars or whatever. If the latency is
>exactly the size of a repeated unit (a loop, 4 bars, whatever) the
>musicians will sound in time, though may not _be_ in 
>time.

This is pretty much how I picture it could work.  Basically,
everybody has a little software synthesizer playing a bunch
of loops, one per musician.  You update your loop, and it
gets transmitted to all the other musicians.  (Ok, before you
technical folk jump on me, for network bandwidth reasons, if
there's more than two of you, that synthesizer might actually
be a remote host--that is, do it client/server where I've just
described peer-to-peer.)

They hear the loop change properly, but delayed from when
you made the change.  Of course, it's not just "delayed";
because they make a change, and you hear THAT change
delayed, and a third party hears both your changes at the
_same_ time...

Here, let me give you an almost concrete description:

You only change your loop a few times, and we'll name
each varation "a" or "b" etc, so you play
 a a a b b c c c d d
and meanwhile we'll call his variations "1" or "2" etc...
 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 5

But you don't hear the other guy's change for one loop,
you would hear:

  a a1 a1 b2 b2 c3 c3 c4 d4 d5 5

and he would hear

  1 a1 a2 a2 b3 b3 c4 c4 c5 d5 d

So if these were each a full loop long, and the changes
were gradual, the differences would probably not interfere
too much with your ability to cooperate.  The question is,
what version is the "definitive" take?  Everyone hears
things differently, and _nobody_ hears the obvious
"simultaneous" version a1 a1 a2 b2 b3 c3 c4 c4 d5 d5.

Sean Barrett


From ???@??? Sat Jan 24 14:36:11 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 24 04:20:40 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 07:28:39 -0500
From: Jeff Duke <jmar@bellsouth.net>
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on the definitive take,if everyone recorded the loop from start to finish then
made a cd of all the different takes they would all sound the same,would'nt
they?It would only be different at the time it was listened to and jammed
with....oh well too early,i need more java(coffee that is)jeff

Sean T Barrett wrote:

> >Could latency be overcome in part by having everything run to some kind of
> >Sync track, the way JamMan handles phrased loops; ultimately everyone would
> >be out of sync but by exactly 1/2/4 bars or whatever. If the latency is
> >exactly the size of a repeated unit (a loop, 4 bars, whatever) the
> >musicians will sound in time, though may not _be_ in
> >time.
>
> This is pretty much how I picture it could work.  Basically,
> everybody has a little software synthesizer playing a bunch
> of loops, one per musician.  You update your loop, and it
> gets transmitted to all the other musicians.  (Ok, before you
> technical folk jump on me, for network bandwidth reasons, if
> there's more than two of you, that synthesizer might actually
> be a remote host--that is, do it client/server where I've just
> described peer-to-peer.)
>
> They hear the loop change properly, but delayed from when
> you made the change.  Of course, it's not just "delayed";
> because they make a change, and you hear THAT change
> delayed, and a third party hears both your changes at the
> _same_ time...
>
> Here, let me give you an almost concrete description:
>
> You only change your loop a few times, and we'll name
> each varation "a" or "b" etc, so you play
>  a a a b b c c c d d
> and meanwhile we'll call his variations "1" or "2" etc...
>  1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 5
>
> But you don't hear the other guy's change for one loop,
> you would hear:
>
>   a a1 a1 b2 b2 c3 c3 c4 d4 d5 5
>
> and he would hear
>
>   1 a1 a2 a2 b3 b3 c4 c4 c5 d5 d
>
> So if these were each a full loop long, and the changes
> were gradual, the differences would probably not interfere
> too much with your ability to cooperate.  The question is,
> what version is the "definitive" take?  Everyone hears
> things differently, and _nobody_ hears the obvious
> "simultaneous" version a1 a1 a2 b2 b3 c3 c4 c4 d5 d5.
>
> Sean Barrett





From ???@??? Sat Jan 24 14:36:22 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 24 09:00:28 1998
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<html><HTML>
&nbsp;

<P><FONT SIZE=-2>Sean T Barrett wrote:</FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE><FONT SIZE=-2>>Could latency be overcome in part
by having everything run to some kind of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>>Sync track, the way JamMan handles phrased loops; ultimately
everyone would</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>>be out of sync but by exactly 1/2/4 bars or whatever.
If the latency is</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>>exactly the size of a repeated unit (a loop, 4 bars,
whatever) the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>>musicians will sound in time, though may not _be_ in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>>time.</FONT><FONT SIZE=-2></FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-2>This is pretty much how I picture it could work.&nbsp;
Basically,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>everybody has a little software synthesizer playing a
bunch</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>of loops, one per musician.&nbsp; You update your loop,
and it</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>gets transmitted to all the other musicians.&nbsp; (Ok,
before you</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>technical folk jump on me, for network bandwidth reasons,
if</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>there's more than two of you, that synthesizer might
actually</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>be a remote host--that is, do it client/server where
I've just</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>described peer-to-peer.)</FONT><FONT SIZE=-2></FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-2>They hear the loop change properly, but delayed from when</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>you made the change.&nbsp; Of course, it's not just "delayed";</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>because they make a change, and you hear THAT change</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>delayed, and a third party hears both your changes at
the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>_same_ time...</FONT><FONT SIZE=-2></FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-2>Here, let me give you an almost concrete description:</FONT><FONT SIZE=-2></FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-2>You only change your loop a few times, and we'll name</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>each varation "a" or "b" etc, so you play</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>&nbsp;a a a b b c c c d d</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>and meanwhile we'll call his variations "1" or "2" etc...</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>&nbsp;1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 5</FONT><FONT SIZE=-2></FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-2>But you don't hear the other guy's change for one loop,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>you would hear:</FONT><FONT SIZE=-2></FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-2>&nbsp; a a1 a1 b2 b2 c3 c3 c4 d4 d5 5</FONT><FONT SIZE=-2></FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-2>and he would hear</FONT><FONT SIZE=-2></FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-2>&nbsp; 1 a1 a2 a2 b3 b3 c4 c4 c5 d5 d</FONT><FONT SIZE=-2></FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-2>So if these were each a full loop long, and the changes</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>were gradual, the differences would probably not interfere</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>too much with your ability to cooperate.&nbsp; The question
is,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>what version is the "definitive" take?&nbsp; Everyone
hears</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>things differently, and _nobody_ hears the obvious</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>"simultaneous" version a1 a1 a2 b2 b3 c3 c4 c4 d5 d5.</FONT><FONT SIZE=-2></FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-2>Sean Barrett</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
&nbsp;
<BR>Great...&nbsp;&nbsp; Just when I thought I'd figured out how to play
an instrument along with four or five other guys successfully you'all turn
around and make intercontinental jamspace a reality....&nbsp; back to school...
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Interesting point about what would be the definitive
jam.... who would hear what, etc....&nbsp; I wonder how one would go about
transposing this information.... Would all players be restricted to certain
keys&nbsp; or is dissonance kinda the point...&nbsp; I understand there
are a lot of us all around the globe w/ different interpretations of this
idea (and you all seem to know what you're talking about, which in my case
isn't entirely true...), but how would you tackle the simple problems posed
by Western and Eastern scales, frequencies theat don't mix etc....&nbsp;&nbsp;
Time latencies that cause changes in the structure of the jam.... IE:Some
guy in holland playing cello loops in 7/11 while a young woman in Kyoto
is going crazy in one of those traditional tunings that was posted the
other day ( except shes not even in a time signature at all...) and ( all
along) Some musical genius in Topeka is playing several instruments (by
himself) (because he can!:)) all in different time signna/......

<P>I figure ya get the picture.....&nbsp;&nbsp; I am not seeing how this
would work in all cases.... there would be a luck factor.... yes/no?

<P>bye bbye
<BR>..................................................................................................................................:)</HTML>

</html>

From ???@??? Sat Jan 24 14:36:27 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 24 10:48:58 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 13:55:13 -0500
From: Jeff Duke <jmar@bellsouth.net>
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Organization: Tec Bab Labs
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Subject: Re: Torn and Door X -- an apology
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I emailed Jeff Suit at DT's site and he sent me this url for his new and
improved ra's.they sound great but they are for a 56k modem so it was a little
choppy for me at 33.6they played though and do sound good.Heres the url;
http://web.engin.umich.edu/torn/real/

Jeff


Caleb Deupree wrote:

> Based on the positive reactions which Door X got earlier today on this
> list, I dug up my old copy and listened to it again, and it was *much*
> better than I remembered (although I still prefer his more experimental
> work).  Thanks for the admonishments which got me to listen to it again.  I
> also noticed a couple of listings for it at www.gemm.com, a clearinghouse
> for various new and used CD dealers.  They also had the oop CMP albums, at
> ridiculously high prices.
>
> There is a web site on Torn at http://ott-outreach.engin.umich.edu/torn/,
> although it doesn't appear to have been updated lately.
>
> --
> Caleb Deupree
> cdeupree@interagp.com
> cdeupree@erinet.com
>
> Computers are useless; they can only give you answers
> -- Pablo Picasso





From ???@??? Sat Jan 24 14:36:28 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 24 11:12:07 1998
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Mry Bro',RR sent me this as recorded at one point on the globe with everyone
starting at once to a midi click on a prearranged tune; Well, look at it from a
subjective listeners point of "view".  If everyone started playing at 12:00pm
GMT you would have(loop
by loop) :
A1
B1
C1
      then
             A1B1C1+A2
             A1B1C1+B2
             A1B1C1+C2
                                  then
                                        A2B2C2+A3
                                        A2B2C2+B3
                                        A2B2C2+C3
                                                              and so on....
    Randy

Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D. wrote:

> At 07:28 AM 1/24/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >on the definitive take,if everyone recorded the loop from start to finish
> then
> >made a cd of all the different takes they would all sound the same,would'nt
> >they?It would only be different at the time it was listened to and jammed
> >with....oh well too early,i need more java(coffee that is)jeff
>
> Hmmm.  Let's consider 2 musicians, A and B.  They are playing over a 10
> second loop.  We'll call musician A's first loop A1. second A2 etc.  Now if
> both musicians are playing over the same 10-sec toop (or drum pattern or
> whatever), the structure would go something like this:
>
> A plays A1
>         ten seconds later
> B starts playing B1 in sync over A's A1
> A is simultaneously playing A2 over A1
>         ten seconds later
> A is now playing A3 over A1+A2+B1.
> B is playing B2 over A1+A2
>
> etc.
>
> This could be extended to C, D etc.  Everyone would hear a different
> version; A would hear
>
>                 A1 A2 A3+B1 A4+B2 etc
> B gets
>                 A1+B1 A2+B2 etc
>
> In a 3-way jam:
> A:              A1 A2 A3+B1 A4+B2+C1 etc
> B:              A1+B1 A2+B2+C1 A3+B3+C2 etc
> C:              A1+B1+C1 A2+B2+C2 A3+B3+C3 etc
>
> In order to prevent anyone leading, A could be the click/drum track.
>
> Michael





From ???@??? Sat Jan 24 14:36:08 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 24 03:21:36 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:57:50
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." <pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: looping over the Internet - one day hopefully  !
In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19980124031004.008d1640@pop.chromatic.com>
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Could latency be overcome in part by having everything run to some kind of
Sync track, the way JamMan handles phrased loops; ultimately everyone would
be out of sync but by exactly 1/2/4 bars or whatever. If the latency is
exactly the size of a repeated unit (a loop, 4 bars, whatever) the
musicians will sound in time, though may not _be_ in 
time.

Michael



From ???@??? Sat Jan 24 14:36:09 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 24 03:31:16 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 13:06:53
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." <pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: looping over the Internet - one day hopefully  !
In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19980124031004.008d1640@pop.chromatic.com>
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>>sorry guys I
>>had a magazine article somewhere---I just looked for it ---that had a midi
>>internet jam with many people.

>hmm. I think this was first done longer than a year ago, actually. I recall
>a san francisco based technology/performance artist doing something like
>this, with multiple musicians in different locations, playing over the net.
>Seems like it was at least two years ago, but I'm not real sure.

I'm pretty sure I've seen the software for live MIDI internet jamming for
free internet download.  Try www.resrocket.com and see what you think.

Michael



From ???@??? Sat Jan 24 14:36:15 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 24 04:51:35 1998
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: "Michael P. Hughes, Ph.D." <pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: looping over the Internet - one day hopefully  !
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At 07:28 AM 1/24/98 -0500, you wrote:
>on the definitive take,if everyone recorded the loop from start to finish
then
>made a cd of all the different takes they would all sound the same,would'nt
>they?It would only be different at the time it was listened to and jammed
>with....oh well too early,i need more java(coffee that is)jeff

Hmmm.  Let's consider 2 musicians, A and B.  They are playing over a 10
second loop.  We'll call musician A's first loop A1. second A2 etc.  Now if
both musicians are playing over the same 10-sec toop (or drum pattern or
whatever), the structure would go something like this:

A plays A1
	ten seconds later
B starts playing B1 in sync over A's A1
A is simultaneously playing A2 over A1
	ten seconds later 
A is now playing A3 over A1+A2+B1.
B is playing B2 over A1+A2

etc.

This could be extended to C, D etc.  Everyone would hear a different
version; A would hear

		A1 A2 A3+B1 A4+B2 etc
B gets		
		A1+B1 A2+B2 etc

In a 3-way jam:
A:		A1 A2 A3+B1 A4+B2+C1 etc
B:		A1+B1 A2+B2+C1 A3+B3+C2 etc
C:		A1+B1+C1 A2+B2+C2 A3+B3+C3 etc

In order to prevent anyone leading, A could be the click/drum track.

Michael



From ???@??? Sat Jan 24 15:33:18 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 24 15:10:03 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:59:21 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: praxis (ws some torn rec. CDs)
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>I've got to check out that AZA.Living Colour were a fantastic band,and bernie
>worrell,wow.Anybody else like or heard of Praxis?It,s a Bill Laswell creation
>with various lineups including worrel,bootsy collins, john
>zorn,buckethead,brain and tons of others.
>Jeff

oh yeah, I have all the praxis albums. A lovely schizophrenic feel, with
some incredible music in there. Lot of great surprises. And Brain just
blows me a way. Definitely one of the most talented and funky drummers on
the planet. I've enjoyed listening to him since the old Limbomaniacs days.
And of course buckethead, who has the distinction of being the only guitar
player I'm still interested in listening to. You really have to see him
live to grasp just how brilliant he can be and how absurdly funny. He's
standing up there playing with inhuman technique and mocking it all at the
same time. And with that expressionless mask, you just can't tell if he
means the brilliant ironies or if he's just a complete idiot, which I think
is part of the point and makes it that much more fun. I've actually seen
buckethead loop before, so it's not completely off topic I guess.....

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com




From ???@??? Sun Jan 25 08:33:39 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 24 18:50:05 1998
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 <199801212138.NAA25353@waynesworld.ucsd.edu>
 <34C65DB5.AA3892C9@mediaone.net> from "innerspace@mediaone.net" at Jan
 21, 98 03:42:29 pm
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Subject: Re: www-cycling74  wow.:)
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At 8:48 AM -0400 1/22/98, Curtis Bahn wrote:
>>kim flint wrote
>>One thing kind of troubling about the computer based systems for real-time
>>use is the latency problems. (meaning the time it would take for audio to
>>be sent in and sent back out again.) On the MSP site some typical latencies
>>are actually listed as:
>>
>>Audio input to audio output latency on a 9600/300:
>>         Using the Digidesign Audiomedia III:      46ms
>>                     Using the Sound Manager:      294ms
>>
>>that's definitely in the range where you would notice it in some
>>situations, especially with looping and trying to maintain precise grooves.
>>And this is on a very fast (and expensive) system! I know that PC's suffer
>>from the same problem. The audio has to go through a lot of operating
>>system to get to where it's useable, and a lot more operating system to get
>>out again.
>>
>>So those of you using systems like these for real-time audio I/O, how do
>>you deal with that? Are you able to operate it with any timing precision
>>for real-time audio events? And I don't mean hard disk recording where the
>>system has opportunities to compensate for the latency. I mean audio really
>>going in and out, like you might have on a typical stand alone audio
>>processor. Anyone?
>>
>
>Latency can be a real problem sometimes.  Especially on a powerbook, the
>technology is not really there yet to have an inexpensive self-contained
>system that can deal with all the audio processing and performance I/O in
>real-time without some significant lag.

>In some cases, like making rich ambient textures,  the latency just desn't
>matter and it is a reasonable price to pay to be in control of more aspects
>of what your signal processing device is doing.  We're certainly in a
>transition period between hardware and software based models for our toys.
>It's pretty exciting.  Especially in performance areas like looping (which
>isn't that "expensive" in terms of computer processing and won't incur as
>much latency as more complicated signal processing) this technology is

I basically agree with you about things moving towards a more software
oriented environment. Whether it will all be running on general, yet
focused musical/audio devices or on general purpose computers seems rather
questionable for quite a while, if ever. You say that something like
Looping doesn't require a lot of processing power, and having developed
them, I'd say that's not really correct. It mostly doesn't take a lot of
signal processing power, that's true, but it does take a lot of processing
power to maintain the real time control. At it's core, Looping is not so
much about dsp and signal processing as it is about control over data and
functional execution. It requires a true real-time operating system to
ensure that any possible event requested by the user can be executed at any
point in time, within a guaranteed amount of time. Such an OS expends a
huge amount of processing cycles making sure that this is possible. Devices
like the echoplex, jamman, and boomerang use all of their processing power
to make sure that when you tell it to do something, it gets done within a
very short amount of time. On the Echoplex, for example, this maximum
latency is only 1.5ms.

Windows and the MacOS are not real-time operating systems. They are
genearalized to do a lot of different types of tasks. They have some
real-time services available, but not much. And those are not as good as
something designed specifically for that. That might change some, but not
much in the near future. Most of the services that get added have to do
with real-time signal processing, and not with real time control. The only
way they can approach real-time performance is by massively increasing the
processing speed, and then you pay for a lot of extra power. And as that
power becomes available, the general purpose operating systems always find
new ways to fill it up. Your only hope is when you can add on a peripheral
that runs it's own real-time os in conjunction with the main system. (which
is what Chromatic does with Mpact media processors, and presumably what
digidesign does with their system.) So this problem isn't likely to go away
soon on basic desktop machines.

The hardware based loopers do a lot more than just put a sound in memory
and repeat it. What makes them special are all the other functions and
features that let the user interact with it like a musical instrument.
These are the sort of features that will be very difficult or impossible to
create on general purpose machines available now or for the near future.

And then there's the longer view of where PC's are going, which may offer
more possibilities. A lot of people in the PC and consumer electronics
industries are pushing these areas to merge together. So PC's begin to
appear that are more specifically focused on single tasks, and consumer
electronics devices begin to appear with more PC-like features. You can see
this happening now with set-top boxes, PDA's, and home theater equipment.
You will soon see the same with stereo equipment, TV's, telephones,
dishwashers, and whatever. It's not unreasonable to think the same will
happen with musical instruments. I tend to think that in 10-15 years, the
idea of using a desktop computer designed for office use for the purposes
of creating music will seem as quaint and old-fashioned as the huge patch
cord based analog synths of the 60's and 70's seem today. Time will tell I
guess.

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com




From ???@??? Sat Jan 24 18:43:17 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 24 17:24:42 1998
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From: Fmplautus <Fmplautus@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4cccaa85.34ca9321@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 20:19:27 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: praxis ...and Buckethead and Laswell rules
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KiM:

The LoOpDoctOrs must endorse your Buckethead fandom.  We LOVE this guy.  We
love his albums, which cut against metal/thrash expectation and always prove
to be funkier, funnier and tastier then any meal at the Colonol's.

Best, 
the LoOpDoctOrs

ps: we sent in the tape


From ???@??? Sat Jan 24 18:43:18 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 24 17:27:30 1998
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From: PJBMHB <PJBMHB@aol.com>
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 20:19:33 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: buckethead
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mr. buckethead is a strange one. i like his stuff but know that whenever i put
his stuff on the cd player i will not be able to find my 2 ferrets. they will
be hiding. as will my wife. i am the only buckethead fan in my house. =-0 PJ


From ???@??? Sun Jan 25 08:33:41 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 24 18:50:06 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:28:01 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE:Time for digitech machine page
Resent-Message-ID: <"hV7UVB.A.5MD.daqy0"@ferret>
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At 3:51 PM -0500 1/20/98, Tom Lambrecht wrote:
>Kim:
>
>I'm, assuming that if some misguided soul who didn' get enuf attention as a
>child was intrigued by the thankless prospect of compiling various boring
>technical minutiae regarding an inanimate object that has been out of
>production for years into a FAQ that less than a handful of people will ever
>see (and when they do, will curse their search engine) . . . .
>
>that you would turn the text file into a finished Loopers Web page complete
>with head counter, flashing messages and the previously mentioned super
>models fiddling with the KNOBS (AAAOOOOOOOHHHHH . . . KNOBS) on a vintage
>RDS 8000 with Real-Time Audio and Puddling Video and Java and . . . .
>
>Ahem . . well if that is the case, (and if and only the rest of the Deviate
>League of Time Machinists contribute to the project), I'd have a go . . .

ok, you're on. Although, don't expect me to be doing all that java and
video stuff. I don't have time to do it or even learn how! The most I ever
figured out was how to make something into a basic web page, and for that I
just use the free html composer that comes with netscape. I'd encourage you
to go ahead and do that much, because it's easy and if you wait for me to
do it, it'll take forever. Or partner up with another time-machine fanatic
to help you out.

but hey, thanks for offering to pitch in! I'll ask one of my numerous
supermodel friends to pay you a visit.

kim




> assumed responsibility for collecting and compilingAt 11:03 AM 1/20/98
>-0500, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>Kim Flint wrote:
>>
>>> At 3:22 PM -0800 1/19/98, Stephen P. Goodman wrote:
>>> >KRosser414 <KRosser414@aol.com> asked:
>>> >>appears to be capable of some great stuff, but I need a manual.  Anyone
>>> >>have one?  I'd gladly pay for a xerox & postage...
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >I've got their number at home, which I called when I got MINE - and
>>>got the
>>> >manual FREE.
>>>
>>> hey, if someone wants to scan the manual, I'd be happy to put it on the
>>> website.
>>>
>>> Also, lots of great info has been posted about this box. It would be great
>>> if someone could complile it all into a FAQ for the Time Machine page. That
>>> poor lonely page sure could use someone to take care of it!
>>>
>>> Just think of the fame and self promotion it would gain you... Looper's
>>> Delight gets over 3000 hits a week. All those people looking at YOUR
>>> handywork....imagine: the job offers come streaming in....overflowing bank
>>> accounts....new home studio toys....parties with rock stars and super
>>> models....it could all be yours, just for one measly web page.....
>>>
>>> kim
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>> Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
>>> kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
>>> http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com
>>
>>
>>Kim...   I love the Digitech Time Machine......
>>            I love Music made with the digitech time machine....
>>            I love the loopers delight web page....
>>
>>               I'm just not smart enough to post my own web page....
>>
>>            Sorry....:(
>>            I had to be good at something and it wasn't computers
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Tom Lambrecht  hideo@concentric.net


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com




From ???@??? Sun Jan 25 08:33:38 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 24 18:50:04 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:36:27 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: ANYONE KNOW THE MIDI PEDAL SCHEME FOR THE ECHOPLEX?
Resent-Message-ID: <"a_HRO.A.ROD.naqy0"@ferret>
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At 3:10 AM -0500 1/21/98, ENAT21213 wrote:
>Thanks for the quick reply Kim.
>      The echoplex sounds way more complex than my jamman.Im thinking of
>investing in one?The only problem I have is this midi controller/echoplex
>pedalboard access loop 1 thru 9 tap thing.
>   What I do is midi merge two ada mc1 midi pedal controllers together .This
>gives me access to all 19 of jammans loop functions without having to bank up
>and down.The ada mc1 has 10 buttons on the face of one pedalboard.So with the
>press of a button I can get around with ease (essential for me,especially
>live).I would love it if the echoplex would react in a similar way.

The Echoplex (the technology we at Aurisis develop that runs the echoplex
is called Loop, btw) can react that way, but I suspect that your current
pedals either won't do it or won't do it in a satisfactory way. You might
want to consider upgrading to a more capable pedal, or get the pedal
designed for the echoplex. Again, I'm not familiar with the ADA pedal, but
I believe it is a very simple one. You can't expect it to do everything....

>I realize
>the echoplex does not accept midi program changes messages.You mentioned that
>this feature will be added in a future echoplex.Any idea when this version
>will be avalible?

What I meant is we may add program change support to Loop for the purposes
of changing programs, which is the purpose of that midi command. So you
would be able to change from one setup to another by sending a program
change command, in the same way you change patches on a multi-effect or a
synth with program change messages.

Using program change messages for executing functions on the echoplex is
problematic, for one thing because it would interfere with us using it for
the intended purpose defined in the midi standard of changing programs.
Another reason is that a midi program change message simply contains less
information than note and continuous control messages. We use all of the
information in the later types to make the midi interface more elegant and
musically intuitive, while allowing you to control more things with fewer
buttons. Changing the interface to work with program change messages makes
it less intuitive and harder to use, and some functions won't be available
at all. And that's opposed to our general design philosophy for Loop. All
of our efforts are focused on designing an interface that is musically
useful and intuitive. We wouldn't want to release something that gives
anyone a lesser experience with Loop. We'll continue to investigate this
possibility, but I'm not very positive about it. Being compatible with
every ancient midi pedal is not a task I relish!

As far as when any future versions of Loop might be available, we don't
discuss that. Since we just released a major version a few months ago, you
might imagine that it won't be very soon, but we are always working on new
developments.


>Sounds like the midi note or continuous controller message for changing
>loops in echoplex may work for me?Not shure though,is anyone out there using a
>similar set up to mine with the echoplex?If so mabey you can let me know how
>this midi note/continouous controler thing works with your midi pedal.I really
>need to be able to jump from one function to the next with minimal tapping.

I have a digitech PMC-10 pedal set up to do this, and it works very well. I
got the pedal for $100.

>     Any Oberheim dealers in my area?I live in Myrtle Beach S.C. ,anywhere in
>S.C.,N.C. or GA. would work.I would love to try one out.I'd probably order one
>right now if I knew I could access most functions(especially loops 1 thru 9)
>with the press of one button.

You have to ask Oberheim about that.....

kim


>Thanks for your help and patience,
>Brian McKenzie
>
>
>In a message dated 98-01-20 06:39:06 EST, you write:
>
><< And last is switching with midi. Unlike the JamMan, the echoplex is more
> like a sampler in this respect. It uses Midi Notes or Continuous Controller
> messages for changing loops. If you have the velocity parameter turned on,
> the Echoplex will use the velocity info in the note on message (or the
> value of the controller) to set the volume of the loop you switch to. You
> jump directly to the loop you want by pressing it's associated
> Note/controller number. (you can set which notes/controllers it uses for
> the loops.) >>


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com




From ???@??? Sun Jan 25 08:33:48 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 24 20:42:20 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 23:35:59 -0500 (EST)
From: CORROSIVE@aol.com
Message-ID: <980124233558_1783960427@mrin39.mx>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:  RE:Time for digitech machine page
Resent-Message-ID: <"FLcxj.A.C4B.uFsy0"@ferret>
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Although I am just the owner of a lowly PDS-8000, I'd love to hear more
feedback (ouch), tips & stuff regarding time machines... i personally feel
lo-res looping is equally as kool as hi-res!!  I would love it if the Plex
pro had a switch (or mod) so you could do 4 bit sampling (ala
electro-harmonix super replay), cause the lo-res grain makes it sound like
your loops were shot into space & bounced off Pluto before behind detuned &
returned to your pitched down psyche...


From ???@??? Sun Jan 25 08:33:48 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 24 20:53:33 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 23:48:30 -0500 (EST)
From: CORROSIVE@aol.com
Message-ID: <980124234829_-265053875@mrin54>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:  RE:Time for digitech machine page
Resent-Message-ID: <"yDCDz.A.kqC.dRsy0"@ferret>
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oh yeah... if you want, I'd be glad to provide pictures of my really cute
girlfriend twiddling PDS-8000 knobs... or tweaking pretty much any Electro
Harmonix effect ( except the attack decay- still fishin for 1 of them)


From ???@??? Sun Jan 25 08:33:50 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 24 21:28:53 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 21:21:54 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Sean Echevarria <sechevar@california.com>
Subject: PMC-10 again
In-Reply-To: <v03007803b0bb15d48b76@[200.254.32.160]>
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PMC-10 owners,

I've got an opportunity to pick up a PMC-10 with power supply BUT no remote
programmer.  Is the hand-held device the only way to program it?  Probably
no manual either.  Can it be programmed via sysex?  I saw a programmer for
a Digitech DSP256 - anyone ever try plugging it into the PMC-10?

Thanks for any advice,
Sean



From ???@??? Sun Jan 25 17:07:10 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan 25 09:49:24 1998
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith)
Subject: Re: PMC-10 again
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>PMC-10 owners,
>
>I've got an opportunity to pick up a PMC-10 with power supply BUT no remote
>programmer.  Is the hand-held device the only way to program it?  Probably
>no manual either.  Can it be programmed via sysex?  I saw a programmer for
>a Digitech DSP256 - anyone ever try plugging it into the PMC-10?
>
>Thanks for any advice,
>Sean


Sean,

It appears to be the only way I've found to program it. I can photocopy you
the manual if and when you need it.

Patrick


 ***  ***    ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html  ***  **

  




From ???@??? Sun Jan 25 08:34:26 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan 25 05:02:21 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 07:57:26 -0500
From: buzzard@world.std.com (Sean T Barrett)
Message-Id: <199801251257.AA18909@world.std.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: ANYONE KNOW THE MIDI PEDAL SCHEME FOR THE ECHOPLEX?
Resent-Message-ID: <"EBzfTB.A.XcG.5azy0"@ferret>
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>Using program change messages for executing functions on the echoplex is
>problematic, for one thing because it would interfere with us using it for
>the intended purpose defined in the midi standard of changing programs.

Why not just have a simple global toggle:
  current behavior
and
  use-program-change-messages for general control

I can't see it being that much software work to provide both
(the usual reason why it's not worth supporting multiple
interfaces).

>Changing the interface to work with program change messages makes
>it less intuitive and harder to use, and some functions won't be available
>at all. And that's opposed to our general design philosophy for Loop. All
>of our efforts are focused on designing an interface that is musically
>useful and intuitive. We wouldn't want to release something that gives
>anyone a lesser experience with Loop.

But, the marketplace reality is that plenty of people
seem to have pedals that don't produce the needed
messages.  If those people _don't_ buy a compatible
footpedal, that is, if they buy it out of the box,
for the price you're (ok, Oberheim) selling it,
they're left with no footpedal interface at all.

Is this really "more musically useful and intuitive"?

I don't know _what_ it is you communicate with the
"missing data", but how can it be worse than what's
on the front of the rack face?  If "note-on" is used
to select a loop, and you make some use of the
velocity as well (to determine the volume of the loop?),
how does a user using the rackface or the _official_
pedalboard ever get this effect?

I guess you're missing the "note-off"s, which would
make a difference where your interface has special
meanings for "press and hold this button, then press
this other button", but eventually you remap those
to some unique "operation"--just provide one program
change for each operation, and let people program the
ones they use into their footpedal however they want.

I understand and wholeheartedly support coherent,
intuitive user-interface designs.  And I _totally_
agree philosophically with the problems with using
program-control messages for non-program-y events.
Abusing a standard (e.g. MIDI) can undermine the
success of such a standard.  But MIDI _is_ already
solidly grounded, and there's (apparently) lots of
people with such pedals, who are currently surviving
on an coherent, relatively intuitive design (actually
it sounds a bit overconstrained by the limited number
of buttons--a little too modal) which they can only
access with their hands--which in the end rather
makes it not-very-easy-to-use.

To reiterate--people are already using it in a
horribly clumsy manner, if they've got the wrong
kind of MIDI pedalboard.  Is it really an outrage
to provide a special mode and a hundred lines of
code to make it more useable?

Sean Barrett
don't look at me, I don't even own an EDP


From ???@??? Sun Jan 25 08:34:25 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan 25 04:56:09 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 08:02:57 -0500
From: Jeff Duke <jmar@bellsouth.net>
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Organization: Tec Bab Labs
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<html><HTML>
Michael,
<BR>could you give the url for q-up arts?I was'nt able to locate it with
a cursery search.
<BR>thanks,Jeff
<CENTER>&nbsp;</CENTER>


<P>Michael Peters wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>okay, talking about DoorX and Torn's other CDs -
maybe not everyone on the
<BR>list is aware of Torn's awesome loop CDs 'Tonal Textures' and 'Pandora's
<BR>Toolbox'.

<P>The Tonal Textures cover says:

<P>>Unusual sonic landscapes and unique
<BR>>atmospheres for use as musical
<BR>>backgrounds in multi-media,
<BR>>film scoring, composition,
<BR>>and music production.

<P>About Pandora's Toolbox, Torn wrote,

<P>>'pandora' is a bit different:
<BR>>much more material than t.t.,
<BR>>so it had to be set-up a little more
<BR>>efficiently for sampling-peoples.

<P>The problem with these 2 CDs is that they're not regular audio CDs
<BR>(although they can be played on regular CD players) but supposed to
be
<BR>sample CDs - they are available from Q-Up Arts (check their website)
for a
<BR>*very* high price which kept me from buying Pandora's Toolbox, but
I spent
<BR>the money for Tonal Textures because Torn played it before his 'Slipping
<BR>over God' solo concert and I immediately fell in love with it. Very
<BR>beautiful, you'll sure like it if you are into, say, Enoesque atmospheres.
<BR>Definitely recommended stuff.

<P>___________
<BR>Michael Peters
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A HREF="http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters">http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters</A>
<BR>HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want"
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A HREF="http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm">http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm</A></BLOCKQUOTE>
&nbsp;</HTML>

</html>

From ???@??? Sun Jan 25 17:07:04 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan 25 08:59:08 1998
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Ken Mistove <kmistove@eclipse.net>
Subject: Re: David Torn loop CDs
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Point you browser at: http://quparts.com/

David's two discs are listed at: http://quparts.com/ambient.htm

>could you give the url for q-up arts?I was'nt able to locate it with a
>cursery search.

Ken


Ken Mistove
kmistove@eclipse.net
new stuff: http://www.geocities.com/~kenzak/
old stuff: http://www.eclipse.net/~kmistove/




From ???@??? Sun Jan 25 17:07:06 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan 25 09:23:46 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 12:16:11 EST
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Another plug for Buckethead (and the whole Laswell contingent). Just great
guitar playing. The Laswell projects can be pretty hit and miss, but there's
always something good in there somewhere. 

Buckethead did an ambient album under the name Death Cube K (it's an anagram
for  Buckethead--cute huh?) a few years ago. I'm not sure if it's loop
based--haven't heard it since I picked up my JamPig. Anyway, it was also
produced by Laswell. It's filled with dark textures and such. Some of you may
want to check it out. Buckethead fans beware, though--I don't think there's a
single solo on the whole disc.

Drew Wheeler


From ???@??? Sun Jan 25 17:07:19 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan 25 11:08:00 1998
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From: klaw@iglou.com
Subject: Re: ANYONE KNOW THE MIDI PEDAL SCHEME FOR THE ECHOPLEX?
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:00:26 -0500
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Hello everyone .  Top o the day to ya. Regarding switching loops with ccs :
How is this done? I thought the ccs were feedback, vol. I switch with note
ons did I miss something?
Also perhaps a question for KIm : Is it possible with current hardware on
plex to reset loops to startpoint when using nxtloop? This has always
seemed so logical& musical.If I have a number of loops in a piece I need
them to  start at the beginning when I switch rather than run continously.
I supose it would have its uses in a random sort of way but its not very
predictable. Maybe have a option to reset or run like in mute mode.BTW
thanks Kim for your ideas on the quantize function. I finally found a use
for this!Works excellent in V5.0.
Also little tid bit for those interesed : Long delay module(on sampling
board) in Eventide 4000 does not change pitch when adjusting delay range
only lenghth>effectively performing a real time  time compression looping
function. Very wild. Still working on that page Kim. I have much to report.

                          Cheers   K Law
















>At 3:10 AM -0500 1/21/98, ENAT21213 wrote:
>>Thanks for the quick reply Kim.
>>      The echoplex sounds way more complex than my jamman.Im thinking of
>>investing in one?The only problem I have is this midi controller/echoplex
>>pedalboard access loop 1 thru 9 tap thing.
>>   What I do is midi merge two ada mc1 midi pedal controllers together .This
>>gives me access to all 19 of jammans loop functions without having to bank up
>>and down.The ada mc1 has 10 buttons on the face of one pedalboard.So with the
>>press of a button I can get around with ease (essential for me,especially
>>live).I would love it if the echoplex would react in a similar way.
>
>The Echoplex (the technology we at Aurisis develop that runs the echoplex
>is called Loop, btw) can react that way, but I suspect that your current
>pedals either won't do it or won't do it in a satisfactory way. You might
>want to consider upgrading to a more capable pedal, or get the pedal
>designed for the echoplex. Again, I'm not familiar with the ADA pedal, but
>I believe it is a very simple one. You can't expect it to do everything....
>
>>I realize
>>the echoplex does not accept midi program changes messages.You mentioned that
>>this feature will be added in a future echoplex.Any idea when this version
>>will be avalible?
>
>What I meant is we may add program change support to Loop for the purposes
>of changing programs, which is the purpose of that midi command. So you
>would be able to change from one setup to another by sending a program
>change command, in the same way you change patches on a multi-effect or a
>synth with program change messages.
>
>Using program change messages for executing functions on the echoplex is
>problematic, for one thing because it would interfere with us using it for
>the intended purpose defined in the midi standard of changing programs.
>Another reason is that a midi program change message simply contains less
>information than note and continuous control messages. We use all of the
>information in the later types to make the midi interface more elegant and
>musically intuitive, while allowing you to control more things with fewer
>buttons. Changing the interface to work with program change messages makes
>it less intuitive and harder to use, and some functions won't be available
>at all. And that's opposed to our general design philosophy for Loop. All
>of our efforts are focused on designing an interface that is musically
>useful and intuitive. We wouldn't want to release something that gives
>anyone a lesser experience with Loop. We'll continue to investigate this
>possibility, but I'm not very positive about it. Being compatible with
>every ancient midi pedal is not a task I relish!
>
>As far as when any future versions of Loop might be available, we don't
>discuss that. Since we just released a major version a few months ago, you
>might imagine that it won't be very soon, but we are always working on new
>developments.
>
>
>>Sounds like the midi note or continuous controller message for changing
>>loops in echoplex may work for me?Not shure though,is anyone out there
>>using a
>>similar set up to mine with the echoplex?If so mabey you can let me know how
>>this midi note/continouous controler thing works with your midi pedal.I
>>really
>>need to be able to jump from one function to the next with minimal tapping.
>
>I have a digitech PMC-10 pedal set up to do this, and it works very well. I
>got the pedal for $100.
>
>>     Any Oberheim dealers in my area?I live in Myrtle Beach S.C. ,anywhere in
>>S.C.,N.C. or GA. would work.I would love to try one out.I'd probably
>>order one
>>right now if I knew I could access most functions(especially loops 1 thru 9)
>>with the press of one button.
>
>You have to ask Oberheim about that.....
>
>kim
>
>
>>Thanks for your help and patience,
>>Brian McKenzie
>>
>>
>>In a message dated 98-01-20 06:39:06 EST, you write:
>>
>><< And last is switching with midi. Unlike the JamMan, the echoplex is more
>> like a sampler in this respect. It uses Midi Notes or Continuous Controller
>> messages for changing loops. If you have the velocity parameter turned on,
>> the Echoplex will use the velocity info in the note on message (or the
>> value of the controller) to set the volume of the loop you switch to. You
>> jump directly to the loop you want by pressing it's associated
>> Note/controller number. (you can set which notes/controllers it uses for
>> the loops.) >>
>
>
>______________________________________________________________________
>Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
>kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
>http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com





From ???@??? Sun Jan 25 17:07:20 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan 25 11:18:58 1998
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: klaw@iglou.com
Subject: Re: PMC-10 again
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:13:02 -0500
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Sean The programmer is the  only ticket. Good luck on finding one . Ive had
two of these & never had any crashes but that little box! Dont get me
started.. Great unit  shame  no one needed the "advanced" functions
according to DTech. Only other current option would be All Acess I guess.

                      Good Luck in your search


                                  K LAW








>PMC-10 owners,
>
>I've got an opportunity to pick up a PMC-10 with power supply BUT no remote
>programmer.  Is the hand-held device the only way to program it?  Probably
>no manual either.  Can it be programmed via sysex?  I saw a programmer for
>a Digitech DSP256 - anyone ever try plugging it into the PMC-10?
>
>Thanks for any advice,
>Sean





From ???@??? Sun Jan 25 17:07:30 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan 25 16:29:31 1998
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From: erich kory <erich@InterLinx.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: ANYONE KNOW THE MIDI PEDAL SCHEME FOR THE ECHOPLEX?
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I use the Ground Control MIDI foot controller and this same problem is the
reason i have used my Jamman the last three years instead of the Echoplex.
I have been waiting for this upgrade in hopes that i will finnally be able
to jump from Loop 5 to Loop 2 (for example)  with one push of my Ground
Control.  I can do this with the Jamman from Lexicon (a company not known
for it's MIDI know-how).  Using those 2 loopers and other
effects,wah-wah,etc. have my feet already doing loop-de-loops, so i don't
have enough floor space for the Echoplex footpedal, even if it did go
directly to any loop.

I'm waiting to see if the upgrade will make that happen...........

erich kory



At 06:36 PM 1/24/98 -0800, you wrote:
>At 3:10 AM -0500 1/21/98, ENAT21213 wrote:
>>Thanks for the quick reply Kim.
>>      The echoplex sounds way more complex than my jamman.Im thinking of
>>investing in one?The only problem I have is this midi controller/echoplex
>>pedalboard access loop 1 thru 9 tap thing.
>>   What I do is midi merge two ada mc1 midi pedal controllers together .This
>>gives me access to all 19 of jammans loop functions without having to bank up
>>and down.The ada mc1 has 10 buttons on the face of one pedalboard.So with the
>>press of a button I can get around with ease (essential for me,especially
>>live).I would love it if the echoplex would react in a similar way.
>
>The Echoplex (the technology we at Aurisis develop that runs the echoplex
>is called Loop, btw) can react that way, but I suspect that your current
>pedals either won't do it or won't do it in a satisfactory way. You might
>want to consider upgrading to a more capable pedal, or get the pedal
>designed for the echoplex. Again, I'm not familiar with the ADA pedal, but
>I believe it is a very simple one. You can't expect it to do everything....
>
>>I realize
>>the echoplex does not accept midi program changes messages.You mentioned that
>>this feature will be added in a future echoplex.Any idea when this version
>>will be avalible?
>
>What I meant is we may add program change support to Loop for the purposes
>of changing programs, which is the purpose of that midi command. So you
>would be able to change from one setup to another by sending a program
>change command, in the same way you change patches on a multi-effect or a
>synth with program change messages.
>
>Using program change messages for executing functions on the echoplex is
>problematic, for one thing because it would interfere with us using it for
>the intended purpose defined in the midi standard of changing programs.
>Another reason is that a midi program change message simply contains less
>information than note and continuous control messages. We use all of the
>information in the later types to make the midi interface more elegant and
>musically intuitive, while allowing you to control more things with fewer
>buttons. Changing the interface to work with program change messages makes
>it less intuitive and harder to use, and some functions won't be available
>at all. And that's opposed to our general design philosophy for Loop. All
>of our efforts are focused on designing an interface that is musically
>useful and intuitive. We wouldn't want to release something that gives
>anyone a lesser experience with Loop. We'll continue to investigate this
>possibility, but I'm not very positive about it. Being compatible with
>every ancient midi pedal is not a task I relish!
>
>As far as when any future versions of Loop might be available, we don't
>discuss that. Since we just released a major version a few months ago, you
>might imagine that it won't be very soon, but we are always working on new
>developments.
>
>
>>Sounds like the midi note or continuous controller message for changing
>>loops in echoplex may work for me?Not shure though,is anyone out there using a
>>similar set up to mine with the echoplex?If so mabey you can let me know how
>>this midi note/continouous controler thing works with your midi pedal.I really
>>need to be able to jump from one function to the next with minimal tapping.
>
>I have a digitech PMC-10 pedal set up to do this, and it works very well. I
>got the pedal for $100.
>
>>     Any Oberheim dealers in my area?I live in Myrtle Beach S.C. ,anywhere in
>>S.C.,N.C. or GA. would work.I would love to try one out.I'd probably order one
>>right now if I knew I could access most functions(especially loops 1 thru 9)
>>with the press of one button.
>
>You have to ask Oberheim about that.....
>
>kim
>
>
>>Thanks for your help and patience,
>>Brian McKenzie
>>
>>
>>In a message dated 98-01-20 06:39:06 EST, you write:
>>
>><< And last is switching with midi. Unlike the JamMan, the echoplex is more
>> like a sampler in this respect. It uses Midi Notes or Continuous Controller
>> messages for changing loops. If you have the velocity parameter turned on,
>> the Echoplex will use the velocity info in the note on message (or the
>> value of the controller) to set the volume of the loop you switch to. You
>> jump directly to the loop you want by pressing it's associated
>> Note/controller number. (you can set which notes/controllers it uses for
>> the loops.) >>
>
>
>______________________________________________________________________
>Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
>kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
>http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com
>
>
>
>



From ???@??? Sun Jan 25 17:07:21 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan 25 13:08:48 1998
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From: "Randy Jones" <ranjones@texas.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: RE:Time for digitech machine page
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:59:46 -0600
Message-ID: <01bd29d4$2abee100$283163d1@user.texas.net>
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Yes, speaking for EVERYONE, send us the Pixs of the GF Tweaking!!!

Randy Jones

-----Original Message-----
From: CORROSIVE@aol.com <CORROSIVE@aol.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Date: Saturday, January 24, 1998 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: RE:Time for digitech machine page


>oh yeah... if you want, I'd be glad to provide pictures of my really cute
>girlfriend twiddling PDS-8000 knobs... or tweaking pretty much any Electro
>Harmonix effect ( except the attack decay- still fishin for 1 of them)
>
>



From ???@??? Sun Jan 25 17:07:27 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan 25 14:54:37 1998
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:00:46 -0500
From: Jeff Duke <jmar@bellsouth.net>
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Organization: Tec Bab Labs
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X-Status: 

Buckets got a new website at; http://www.bucketheadland.com/index.html

Jeff

TritoneDW wrote:

> Another plug for Buckethead (and the whole Laswell contingent). Just great
> guitar playing. The Laswell projects can be pretty hit and miss, but there's
> always something good in there somewhere.
>
> Buckethead did an ambient album under the name Death Cube K (it's an anagram
> for  Buckethead--cute huh?) a few years ago. I'm not sure if it's loop
> based--haven't heard it since I picked up my JamPig. Anyway, it was also
> produced by Laswell. It's filled with dark textures and such. Some of you may
> want to check it out. Buckethead fans beware, though--I don't think there's a
> single solo on the whole disc.
>
> Drew Wheeler





From ???@??? Sun Jan 25 17:07:28 1998
>From kflint  Sun Jan 25 15:36:33 1998
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Just saw Scorsese's film on the Dalai Lama, Kundun. Fantastic work,
important document.

Generous looping through much of this powerful and evocative film c/o

Philip Glass' music.

As I was watching this film, some parts resembling the great Konyaskatsii
(sp?) I realized that like it or not, my first exposure to looping as a
compositional idiom was via Glass music. 

Hat's off. 





From ???@??? Sun Jan 25 17:07:32 1998
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Subject: Re: Kundun
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Neil Goldstein <ngold@imagina.com> mentioned:


>Generous looping through much of this powerful and evocative film c/o
>Philip Glass' music.
>
>As I was watching this film, some parts resembling the great Konyaskatsii
>(sp?) I realized that like it or not, my first exposure to looping as a
>compositional idiom was via Glass music.


I saw a marvelous interview that Scorsese did lately on Charlie Rose (PBS),
where he talked about the music.  He'd first been exposed to Philip Glass'
work via Koyaaniskatsi (1982?), a film so beautiful as to bring tears to the
eyes - oh, for the letterbox version!  There was a sequel, by the way,
called Powaaniskatsi (the Hopi word apparently describing the assumption of
power through consumption); the music is more world-oriented, but still
Glass.

I first encountered his work some years after being exposed to
Fripp/Eno/Cage et. al. in the mid-70s; I went to a benefit for the Kitchen
in NYC, which billed (amongst others) DNA, David Byrne, a video installation
(On Land, actually) by Brian Eno, and the Philip Glass Ensemble.  The
benefit was held in Bond's, an old clothing store-turned-club, and there
were so many celebs (in terms of the New Music scene and others) I couldn't
help but notice the absence of Mr.'s Fripp or Eno, for that matter.  (I
think the League of Gentlemen was touring then, anyhoo).

Anyway!  I needed to point out something about Philip Glass' music with
respect to looping.  The only looping is from the compositional standpoint,
and not because of any technology.  To see an orchestra play his work is
something else, I imagine - the Ensemble alone looked like they shed quite a
lot of sweat at the Kitchen, Mr.. Glass playing keyboards also, and
conducting using accentuated nods of his head, which sported a bushy cloud
of hair (then).  They were playing it all, man.  However, it Wasn't IMHO
'looping' as most of us on this list know it.  More like a compositional
'repeat', but then I know not much of music composition in the
parochial-classical sense. :)  Anyone?  Is 'repeat' the correct musical
term?  I *know* it's not 'loop'. :)

Stephen Goodman       * Download The Loop Of The Week and more!
EarthLight Studios         * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------



From ???@??? Mon Jan 26 02:06:49 1998
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In a message dated 1/25/98 6:56:18 PM, you wrote:

>Anyway!  I needed to point out something about Philip Glass' music with
>respect to looping.  The only looping is from the compositional standpoint,
>and not because of any technology.  To see an orchestra play his work is
>something else, I imagine - the Ensemble alone looked like they shed quite a
>lot of sweat at the Kitchen, Mr.. Glass playing keyboards also, and
>conducting using accentuated nods of his head, which sported a bushy cloud
>of hair (then).  They were playing it all, man.  However, it Wasn't IMHO
>'looping' as most of us on this list know it.  More like a compositional
>'repeat', but then I know not much of music composition in the
>parochial-classical sense. :)  Anyone?  Is 'repeat' the correct musical
>term?  I *know* it's not 'loop'. :)

Yes, repeat is definitely a correct term here, though I have never actually
seen a Glass score, he may have everything written out just to keep musicians
from getting lost.

I once saw a collection of small plays in the Body Politic Theatre in Chicago,
one of which was called "Phillip Glass Buys a Loaf of Bread," in which the
actors conversed in a looping, minimalist way (in a minimalist bakery with ONE
loaf of bread) that interacted in an ever-shifting pattern....it is kind of
hard to describe, but it BRILLIANTLY portrayed Glass' music in the form of
"dialogue" and greatly shed light on how his music worked....and was amusing
as hell!!!




From ???@??? Mon Jan 26 02:06:52 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 00:46:32 EST
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Subject: Re: ANYONE KNOW THE MIDI PEDAL SCHEME FOR THE ECHOPLEX?
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Hello everyone,

Thanks to Kim for his time and patience with me.

How about if the echoplex pedalboard was designed to contain 9 extra buttons
that would access loops 1 thru 9.I believe this would solve this tap up or
down to get to a desired loop problem.You could have buttons 1 thru 9 on the
top row and the  record,undo ect. buttons on the bottom row(or vice versa)of
the pedalboard.This would save alot of stage space.I really would love to get
an echoplex but its looking like I will have to spend around $885
bucks(echoplex,pedalboard and a$100 for a midi pedal that will work) to get
the echoplex to work for me the way I need it to.Or mabey you and Oberheim
could design a program change friendly echoplex?Now this would be cool then I
could use my ancient ada midi pedals.Till then I gess I'l keep looping with my
jamman.
Again thanks for your time and patience
Brian McKenzie   

In a message dated 98-01-25 19:28:13 EST, 

<< 
 I use the Ground Control MIDI foot controller and this same problem is the
 reason i have used my Jamman the last three years instead of the Echoplex.
 I have been waiting for this upgrade in hopes that i will finnally be able
 to jump from Loop 5 to Loop 2 (for example)  with one push of my Ground
 Control.  I can do this with the Jamman from Lexicon (a company not known
 for it's MIDI know-how). >>


From ???@??? Mon Jan 26 02:06:55 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 02:07:55 EST
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<<Anyway!  I needed to point out something about Philip Glass' music with
respect to looping.  The only looping is from the compositional standpoint,
and not because of any technology.  To see an orchestra play his work is
something else, I imagine - the Ensemble alone looked like they shed quite a
lot of sweat at the Kitchen, Mr.. Glass playing keyboards also, and
conducting using accentuated nods of his head, which sported a bushy cloud
of hair (then).  They were playing it all, man.  However, it Wasn't IMHO
'looping' as most of us on this list know it.  More like a compositional
'repeat', but then I know not much of music composition in the
parochial-classical sense. :)  Anyone?  Is 'repeat' the correct musical
term?  I *know* it's not 'loop'. :)>>

Ok, I'm sure I'm not the only "classically" trained musician here, but I'm the
one who checked my e-mail three times today, so I guess I get first crack at
the official explanation of all this stuff. Mr. Glass is what's called a
Minimalist composer. Other famous Minimalists are Steve Reich (composed
"Electric Counterpoint",  performed by Pat Metheney) and John Adams (composed
"The Death of Klinghoffer", and "Nixon in China", as well as the Minimalist
landmark "In C"). 

The basic idea of Minimalism in music is to compose peices with a minimal
amount of motivic material--just a couple little ideas, or hooks. The interest
from the piece comes from the very gradual and subtle change introduced to the
piece over time. (Make no mistake--these pieces are composed, there is no
improvisation involved.) Glass, for example, tends to create change in his
pieces through additive and subtractive processes--adding a note to a motive,
or taking one away. (If this idea doesn't make sense in print, just listen to
his music--you'll know what I mean.) Listening to these pieces is very much
like watching clouds move across the sky, in a good way.

Minimalism, by it's very nature, involves a LOT of repetition (repetition is
certainly a viable term here). In this way it is sort of like looping.
Certainly people who can listen to looped music and think it's interesting
would probably relate to Minimalist work, at least on some level. 

The movies Koyaanisqatsi and Powaqatsi (I'm pretty sure on the spelling of the
two) are excellent introductions to the work of Philip Glass, as there are
really stunning visual accompaniments to the music. Other pieces to check out
would be "In C" by John Adams (a piece in which several players play different
little fragments of music in the key of C), and "Piano Phase" by Steve Reich.
"Piano Phase" is pretty cool. Basically, two pianists play the same 12 note
repeated pattern, starting in unison. One player then speeds up ever-so-
slightly, until their pattern has shifted one note ahead of the other
player's. This goes on until the faster player has come all the way around the
pattern to play in unison again. You can imagine that it's pretty hard for the
"steady" player to keep an even tempo. Anyway, the piece takes around twenty
minutes to play all the way through, and it's really cool. When played well,
you can hear all these crazy sub-patterns and cross rhythms in the "in
between" parts. I've been trying to play it on guitar, with the old JamPig
playing the steady, but the pattern is a bit un-guitaristic (poor me! I'll
have to practice...).

Drew W.    


From ???@??? Mon Jan 26 10:43:36 1998
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Subject: Re: Kundun
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Terry Riley is the composer of "In C", not John Adams.

An excellent piece by Adams is "Light Over Water" composed for Brass and
Synthesizer.

>and John Adams (composed
>"The Death of Klinghoffer", and "Nixon in China", as well as the Minimalist
>landmark "In C").

Ken

Ken Mistove
kmistove@eclipse.net
new stuff: http://www.geocities.com/~kenzak/
old stuff: http://www.eclipse.net/~kmistove/




From ???@??? Mon Jan 26 10:43:40 1998
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From: "Scott Johnson (CAN)" <SCJOHNSO@techdata.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Buckethead (was RE: praxis )
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> Buckethead did an ambient album under the name Death Cube K (it's an
anagram
> for  Buckethead--cute huh?) a few years ago.
He's got 2 albums under the Death Cube K persona (with Bill Laswell).
They are certainly both excellent discs, but you must certainly be into
that "dark", and "foreboding" type of ambient sound.  It's actually
something that Buckethead has always had a penchant for (I recall him
toying with such textures on the original masters for _Bucketheadland_
years ago).

Scott


From ???@??? Mon Jan 26 15:10:12 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 26 11:10:53 1998
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Subject: RE: Lexicon not known for MIDI know-how?!?
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I remember having a lot of trouble with the LXP1 and it's control module.
Maybe that was just a fluke.  There are things like Jamman not having a MIDI
thru and not being able to choose which MIDI channel to use that bother me,
in  general though it works very well, sorry for the negative comments, it
seems that every machine has it's faults and good points, i'm just tired of
spending money on unfinished machines.        ek


At 11:06 AM 1/26/98 -0500, you wrote:
>> erich kory wrote:"I can do this with the Jamman from Lexicon (a
>> company not known for it's MIDI know-how)."
>> 
>	I am sorry erich but the Lexicon PCM70 was the first processor
>to give you complete control over all of its functions!  This feature
>has been included in most of our processors since.  I do not see how you
>can justify your statement!
>
>	Best regards,
>
>	Greg Hogan
>	Lexicon Customer Service
>	Phone +781-280-0372
>	FAX +781-280-0499
>
>
>



From ???@??? Mon Jan 26 15:10:13 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 26 11:12:17 1998
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Subject: RE: Lexicon not known for MIDI know-how?!?
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At 10:53 AM 1/26/98 -0800, you wrote:
>At 11:06 AM -0500 1/26/98, Hogan, Greg  (Exchange) wrote:
>>> erich kory wrote:"I can do this with the Jamman from Lexicon (a
>>> company not known for it's MIDI know-how)."
>>>
>>	I am sorry erich but the Lexicon PCM70 was the first processor
>>to give you complete control over all of its functions!  This feature
>>has been included in most of our processors since.  I do not see how you
>>can justify your statement!
>
>If you look at the midi manufacturer numbers, you'll see that Lexicon's is
>in the first 10. They were using midi long before most.....
>
>kim
>
That must be why I can do next loop function with it.

Anyway, I'm sure all you people working on these machines are doing the best
you can.  I don't mean to be mean, excuse me.



From ???@??? Mon Jan 26 10:43:41 1998
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        On Wednesday night, January 28th, at 9:00 PM at the Linwood Grille
(69 Kilmarnock St. in the Fenway, Boston MA)
        
                        The Vortex      
                (a collective of Boston bands) 
        presents an evening of dark psychedelia with
                        Dreamchild
                        Orifice
                        Sabot

                        Cover charge is $5

        Dreamchild will be doing their atmospherics, somewhat ambient,
melodic looper-enabled brand of music and welcome any from the lsit who can
make it into the wilds of Boston.  



From ???@??? Mon Jan 26 10:43:48 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 26 07:42:31 1998
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Actually, Terry Riley composed "In C".

TritoneDW wrote:

> <<Anyway!  I needed to point out something about Philip Glass' music with
> respect to looping.  The only looping is from the compositional standpoint,
> and not because of any technology.  To see an orchestra play his work is
> something else, I imagine - the Ensemble alone looked like they shed quite a
> lot of sweat at the Kitchen, Mr.. Glass playing keyboards also, and
> conducting using accentuated nods of his head, which sported a bushy cloud
> of hair (then).  They were playing it all, man.  However, it Wasn't IMHO
> 'looping' as most of us on this list know it.  More like a compositional
> 'repeat', but then I know not much of music composition in the
> parochial-classical sense. :)  Anyone?  Is 'repeat' the correct musical
> term?  I *know* it's not 'loop'. :)>>
>
> Ok, I'm sure I'm not the only "classically" trained musician here, but I'm the
> one who checked my e-mail three times today, so I guess I get first crack at
> the official explanation of all this stuff. Mr. Glass is what's called a
> Minimalist composer. Other famous Minimalists are Steve Reich (composed
> "Electric Counterpoint",  performed by Pat Metheney) and John Adams (composed
> "The Death of Klinghoffer", and "Nixon in China", as well as the Minimalist
> landmark "In C").
>
> The basic idea of Minimalism in music is to compose peices with a minimal
> amount of motivic material--just a couple little ideas, or hooks. The interest
> from the piece comes from the very gradual and subtle change introduced to the
> piece over time. (Make no mistake--these pieces are composed, there is no
> improvisation involved.) Glass, for example, tends to create change in his
> pieces through additive and subtractive processes--adding a note to a motive,
> or taking one away. (If this idea doesn't make sense in print, just listen to
> his music--you'll know what I mean.) Listening to these pieces is very much
> like watching clouds move across the sky, in a good way.
>
> Minimalism, by it's very nature, involves a LOT of repetition (repetition is
> certainly a viable term here). In this way it is sort of like looping.
> Certainly people who can listen to looped music and think it's interesting
> would probably relate to Minimalist work, at least on some level.
>
> The movies Koyaanisqatsi and Powaqatsi (I'm pretty sure on the spelling of the
> two) are excellent introductions to the work of Philip Glass, as there are
> really stunning visual accompaniments to the music. Other pieces to check out
> would be "In C" by John Adams (a piece in which several players play different
> little fragments of music in the key of C), and "Piano Phase" by Steve Reich.
> "Piano Phase" is pretty cool. Basically, two pianists play the same 12 note
> repeated pattern, starting in unison. One player then speeds up ever-so-
> slightly, until their pattern has shifted one note ahead of the other
> player's. This goes on until the faster player has come all the way around the
> pattern to play in unison again. You can imagine that it's pretty hard for the
> "steady" player to keep an even tempo. Anyway, the piece takes around twenty
> minutes to play all the way through, and it's really cool. When played well,
> you can hear all these crazy sub-patterns and cross rhythms in the "in
> between" parts. I've been trying to play it on guitar, with the old JamPig
> playing the steady, but the pattern is a bit un-guitaristic (poor me! I'll
> have to practice...).
>
> Drew W.





From ???@??? Mon Jan 26 10:43:50 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 26 07:57:59 1998
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From: "Hogan, Greg  (Exchange)" <ghogan@lexicon.com>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: New to looping/processing
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:44:54 -0500
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> Michael asked:  "Lex people, what are the feedback levels for Fade?"  
> 
Short fade=43%, medium fade=61%, and long fade=86%.

Please let me know if you have any questions or if there is anything
that I can do for you.

Best regards,

Greg Hogan
Lexicon Customer Service
Phone +781-280-0372
FAX +781-280-0499



From ???@??? Mon Jan 26 10:43:49 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 26 07:56:48 1998
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Date:	Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:48:56 -0600 (CST)
Sender: Todd Madson <crash@waste.org>
From:	Todd Madson <crash@waste.org>
To:	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Buckethead, Plex Sighting
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Re: Death Cube K: it's very good, dark ambient stuff, almost quiet
in a way.  The tune "maggot dream" is even pretty, in a sort of doomy,
ominous kind of way.  He doesn't play wild stuff on this one, it's very
reflective and introspective.  Highly recommended for those who want
this kind of thing.

Also, got the latest Thoroughbred Music catalog in the mail and sure
enough they have the Oberheim Echoplex and controller.  Drool drool.
I want.

-Todd.




From ???@??? Mon Jan 26 10:43:51 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 26 08:15:15 1998
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From: "Hogan, Greg  (Exchange)" <ghogan@lexicon.com>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Lexicon not known for MIDI know-how?!?
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:06:04 -0500
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> erich kory wrote:"I can do this with the Jamman from Lexicon (a
> company not known for it's MIDI know-how)."
> 
	I am sorry erich but the Lexicon PCM70 was the first processor
to give you complete control over all of its functions!  This feature
has been included in most of our processors since.  I do not see how you
can justify your statement!

	Best regards,

	Greg Hogan
	Lexicon Customer Service
	Phone +781-280-0372
	FAX +781-280-0499



From ???@??? Mon Jan 26 10:43:52 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 26 08:47:23 1998
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Message-ID: <005501bd2a78$b26be720$b3c8c80a@classonde.psbgm.qc.ca>
From: "Claude Lassonde" <classonde@psbgm.qc.ca>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Encyclopedia of musical links- is now located to:
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:37:30 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Sorry for the intrusion. Some of you had interests in my homepage in the
past.

The page -Encyclopedia of musical links- is now located to:

http://members.tripod.com/~Lassonde/index.html

Regards,
Claude Lassonde





From ???@??? Mon Jan 26 15:10:59 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 26 13:39:30 1998
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Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD014CBEE@migarexch01.maritz.com>
From: "Liebig, Steuart A." <LiebigSA@Maritz.com>
To: "Liebig, Steuart A." <LiebigSA@Maritz.com>,
        "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Kundun
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:39:49 -0600
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Terry Riley, not John Adams, wrote in C. He and Lamont Young are
considered to be the "fathers" of Minimalism.

Other Minimalist composers would be Michael Nyman (English composer of
the Piano score and scores for the films of Peter Greenaway) and Dutch
composer (ready for the misspelling?) Lois Andriesson.

	steuart liebig

> ----------
> From: 	TritoneDW
> Reply To: 	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Sent: 	Sunday, January 25, 1998 11:12 PM
> To: 	LiebigSA@maritz.com
> Subject: 	Re: Kundun
> 
> <<Anyway!  I needed to point out something about Philip Glass' music
> with
> respect to looping.  The only looping is from the compositional
> standpoint,
> and not because of any technology.  To see an orchestra play his work
> is
> something else, I imagine - the Ensemble alone looked like they shed
> quite a
> lot of sweat at the Kitchen, Mr.. Glass playing keyboards also, and
> conducting using accentuated nods of his head, which sported a bushy
> cloud
> of hair (then).  They were playing it all, man.  However, it Wasn't
> IMHO
> 'looping' as most of us on this list know it.  More like a
> compositional
> 'repeat', but then I know not much of music composition in the
> parochial-classical sense. :)  Anyone?  Is 'repeat' the correct
> musical
> term?  I *know* it's not 'loop'. :)>>
> 
> Ok, I'm sure I'm not the only "classically" trained musician here, but
> I'm the
> one who checked my e-mail three times today, so I guess I get first
> crack at
> the official explanation of all this stuff. Mr. Glass is what's called
> a
> Minimalist composer. Other famous Minimalists are Steve Reich
> (composed
> "Electric Counterpoint",  performed by Pat Metheney) and John Adams
> (composed
> "The Death of Klinghoffer", and "Nixon in China", as well as the
> Minimalist
> landmark "In C"). 
> 
> The basic idea of Minimalism in music is to compose peices with a
> minimal
> amount of motivic material--just a couple little ideas, or hooks. The
> interest
> from the piece comes from the very gradual and subtle change
> introduced to the
> piece over time. (Make no mistake--these pieces are composed, there is
> no
> improvisation involved.) Glass, for example, tends to create change in
> his
> pieces through additive and subtractive processes--adding a note to a
> motive,
> or taking one away. (If this idea doesn't make sense in print, just
> listen to
> his music--you'll know what I mean.) Listening to these pieces is very
> much
> like watching clouds move across the sky, in a good way.
> 
> Minimalism, by it's very nature, involves a LOT of repetition
> (repetition is
> certainly a viable term here). In this way it is sort of like looping.
> Certainly people who can listen to looped music and think it's
> interesting
> would probably relate to Minimalist work, at least on some level. 
> 
> The movies Koyaanisqatsi and Powaqatsi (I'm pretty sure on the
> spelling of the
> two) are excellent introductions to the work of Philip Glass, as there
> are
> really stunning visual accompaniments to the music. Other pieces to
> check out
> would be "In C" by John Adams (a piece in which several players play
> different
> little fragments of music in the key of C), and "Piano Phase" by Steve
> Reich.
> "Piano Phase" is pretty cool. Basically, two pianists play the same 12
> note
> repeated pattern, starting in unison. One player then speeds up
> ever-so-
> slightly, until their pattern has shifted one note ahead of the other
> player's. This goes on until the faster player has come all the way
> around the
> pattern to play in unison again. You can imagine that it's pretty hard
> for the
> "steady" player to keep an even tempo. Anyway, the piece takes around
> twenty
> minutes to play all the way through, and it's really cool. When played
> well,
> you can hear all these crazy sub-patterns and cross rhythms in the "in
> between" parts. I've been trying to play it on guitar, with the old
> JamPig
> playing the steady, but the pattern is a bit un-guitaristic (poor me!
> I'll
> have to practice...).
> 
> Drew W.    
> 


From ???@??? Mon Jan 26 10:43:59 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 26 10:37:01 1998
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From: TritoneDW@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:24:16 EST
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In a message dated 98-01-26 06:35:21 EST, you write:

<< Terry Riley is the composer of "In C", not John Adams >>

Oops! You're absolutely right.

Drew W.


From ???@??? Mon Jan 26 15:10:10 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 26 11:04:35 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:53:33 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Lexicon not known for MIDI know-how?!?
Resent-Message-ID: <"Jj-8M.A._CC.yuNz0"@ferret>
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At 11:06 AM -0500 1/26/98, Hogan, Greg  (Exchange) wrote:
>> erich kory wrote:"I can do this with the Jamman from Lexicon (a
>> company not known for it's MIDI know-how)."
>>
>	I am sorry erich but the Lexicon PCM70 was the first processor
>to give you complete control over all of its functions!  This feature
>has been included in most of our processors since.  I do not see how you
>can justify your statement!

If you look at the midi manufacturer numbers, you'll see that Lexicon's is
in the first 10. They were using midi long before most.....

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com




From ???@??? Mon Jan 26 15:11:01 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 26 13:53:22 1998
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From: "Hogan, Greg  (Exchange)" <ghogan@lexicon.com>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Setting a MIDI channel on your JAMMAN.
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:07:09 -0500
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	Erich wrote:"I remember having a lot of trouble with the LXP1
and it's control module.  Maybe that was just a fluke.  There are things
like Jamman not having a MIDI thru and not being able to choose which
MIDI channel to use that bother me, in  general though it works very
well, sorry for the negative comments, it seems that every machine has
it's faults and good points, i'm just tired of spending money on
unfinished machines."        

As far as your problems with the LXP-1 and the MRC, I can't say that it
was a fluke, but it must have been some type of failure on one of them.
They do work together very well.

The JAMMAN does not have MIDI THRU, I can't help you with that.  You can
change what MIDI channel it responds to as follows:Press and hold the
RESET/BYPASS and FUNCTION buttons and turn the machine on.  You will get
a "d" in the display.  Release the buttons and press and release the
RESET/BYPASS button.  You will now have a number in the display
corresponding with the position of the MODE knob.  Turn the mode knob
until the display reads "15."  Press and release the RESET/BYPASS button
again and you will have a "1" in the display.  Turn the SELECT knob to
select the MIDI channel that you want the JAMMAN to respond to.  Press
and release the RESET/BYPASS button and turn the mode knob until you
have "9" in the display.  Press and release the RESET/BYPASS button one
more time and normal operation will resume.

This is explained on page 26 of the JAMMAN owners manual.  Unfortunately
the channel selection will not be stored when you power the machine down
so you will have to do this each time you power the machine on.  

I hope this helps!  Please let me know if you have any questions or if
there is anything that I can do for you.

Best regards,

Greg Hogan
Lexicon Customer Service
Phone +781-280-0372
FAX +781-280-0499


From ???@??? Mon Jan 26 15:11:07 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 26 14:43:00 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:26:36 -0500
From: R & T Cummings <R_T_Cummings@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Kundun (and Steve Reich)
Sender: R & T Cummings <R_T_Cummings@compuserve.com>
To: Loopers Delight <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
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Some interesting ideas with the minimal music approaches, I think.
One of favorite pieces is Steve Reich's _Drumming_ which at 
1 1/2 hours length involves "changes of phase position, pitch and 
timbre" (liner notes). In this piece they start on tuned bongos and 
gradually introduce voice, marimbas and glockenspiels while all
basically using the same rhythmic figure (with gradual changes of 
relative phase). Another approach that he used on some pieces (e.g. _Six 
Pianos), was changing phase in discrete steps of eigths etc. combined 
with addition/ subtraction/ replacement of notes.

This latter technique seems to me to be simpler and maybe a more 
feasible way of getting started (Although, I personally have not 
really tried this to any depth). Any of you have some ideas on these 
sorts of techniques, as applied to machine-aided looping.
Machine-aided looping (especially the 95% echo feedback type 
of looping) basically uses similar concepts, doesn't it?

Thanks for the posts in this direction - this induces some new (well, 
actually old - let's say recycled) ideas!


From ???@??? Tue Jan 27 10:39:23 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 27 02:16:09 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:12:37 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: ANYONE KNOW THE MIDI PEDAL SCHEME FOR THE ECHOPLEX?
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At 12:46 AM -0500 1/26/98, ENAT21213 wrote:
>Hello everyone,
>
>Thanks to Kim for his time and patience with me.
>
>How about if the echoplex pedalboard was designed to contain 9 extra buttons
>that would access loops 1 thru 9.I believe this would solve this tap up or
>down to get to a desired loop problem.

I'd really like to encourage you to try the way the echoplex interface does
work, first. The tapping "problem" really isn't a problem at all when you
are familiar with how it works. In some respects, it actually turns out to
be far more powerful than the simple triggering method you are using now.
And it uses a lot less stage area than you are currently using, which was a
design goal for it. The whole point of that part of the interface design is
to allow easy and reasonably fast access to any loop while only requiring
one extra button instead of nine, basically to take care of people with
situations like yours.

This is possible because we can take advantage of the other switches,
briefly giving them new functions when the user wants to switch loops. With
the "confirm" mode on, you don't listen to the loops you don't want, you
just go directly to the one you do. In my experience, I usually know what
loop I'm going to in advance of when I actually need to switch, and I can
usually have it ready to jump there in less than a second without really
needing to concentrate on it much. Personally, I find this much better than
having a whole other pedal taking up space in front of me, and I find it
works just as well.

The thing that makes it incredibly useable, which you can't do with simple
triggering, is I can dictate what happens when I jump to the new loop. In
addition to just playing the new loop, I can switch and have it immediately
recording something new, or overdubbing onto an existing loop, or copying
the loop I left into the new one while I add new things to it, or just copy
the length of the previous one. All of this I can control very quickly,
with a minimum of tapping.

We did spend a huge amount of time thinking about this, trying it out, and
bouncing the ideas of a lot of other musicians to make sure it would come
out nicely. Again, I encourage you to first try the way it DOES work rather
than trying to force it into a less useful model, and then make up your
mind.

>You could have buttons 1 thru 9 on the
>top row and the  record,undo ect. buttons on the bottom row(or vice versa)of
>the pedalboard.This would save alot of stage space.I really would love to get
>an echoplex but its looking like I will have to spend around $885
>bucks(echoplex,pedalboard and a$100 for a midi pedal that will work) to get
>the echoplex to work for me the way I need it to.

Well thanks for the suggestion, we do appreciate them and much of what we
do is derived from feedback we get from users. This would make the pedal
significantly larger and more expensive, which most people would not like
very much. It also would not be compatible with the existing echoplex
hardware and require some special cable. And unfortunately, Aurisis is a
very small operation, and I'm afraid we simply don't have resources to
devote towards making every old thing and every special circumstance work.
Especially something that has a readily available solution and is only
interesting to a small number of users. And since 99.999% of people who
trigger loops do so with midi note commands sent to a sampler, there's not
much motivation for us to break out of that midi interface model for
something more limited than what we have. (the jamman is the only device
I'm aware of that doesn't trigger loops in this way.) We would much prefer
to spend our limited time and money developing new features that we hope
people will find interesting, rather than endlessly testing and adjusting
what we've got to make sure it works with everything that was made in the
last 15 years!

If you are really into triggering loops, I'd suggest you follow the crowd
and find some way to send midi-note commands. That way you will not only be
able to trigger loops on the echoplex, but other loop oriented devices you
may decide to use, like samplers and such. You'll have a lot more
versatility and options if you have more midi commands at your disposal,
and if you are going to follow this direction, you will probably want to
make this change at some point anyway. There are many controller devices
you could choose from: keyboards, drum triggers, more sophisticated midi
pedals, etc. As some consolation, the echoplex also supports use of
continuous controller messages for loop triggering, in addition to its use
of midi notes.


>Or mabey you and Oberheim
>could design a program change friendly echoplex?Now this would be cool then I
>could use my ancient ada midi pedals.Till then I gess I'l keep looping with my
>jamman.

An Echoplex controlled by program change messages from two ADA pedals like
you have it would not be able to do a lot of it's functions. An Echoplex
controlled by a single simple program change pedal (like the DMC Ground
Control) would do even less. Even worse to me, the interface which makes
the Loop software elegant and simple to use disappears and it becomes much
less musically intuitive. You really wouldn't have much reason to upgrade
this setup to an Echoplex, since you wouldn't have access to many of the
interesting advanced features in Loop and the musicality that people seem
to enjoy so much would be less available. If we released a version of Loop
that somehow made every feature in your Echoplex controllable by program
change messages, you would need to add one or two more ADA pedals to use
it! And that would be so impossible to use that you'd hardly find it
satisfying. On the other hand, if you were to learn to use the echoplex's
carefully designed pedal (or get one of several midi pedal that are capable
of emulating it, or even build your own plex pedal, it's not hard) you
would have one less pedal on stage than you do now and a much nicer musical
experience....

This is a frustrating situation to deal with, because some people using
looping devices have unfortunately been given the expectation that looping
can be controlled via midi in a ridiculously simple fashion. As more
powerful looping devices become available, this approach breaks down very
quickly. What happens when there are 32 or 64 loops available instead of 9?
And many more functions to use on them? And 128 different patches to select
between? Do you still want to control that completely with a single midi
command? It'll be impossible! Now, if you were to buy any synthesizer, or a
sampler, or recording system with midi-based transport control, or even a
very simple drum machine, you would never assume that it could be totally
controlled by just midi program change messages. So why would you expect
the echoplex or any other looping device to operate that way?

Midi is a sort of language, and when you use a device that can only speak a
very small subset of the words you have to accept that you can only
communicate to other devices in a very limited fashion. It's as if someone
were to open up your vocabulary and remove everything but the prepositions.
No nouns, verbs, adjectives, adverbs, or even gerunds. Your ability to
communicate with the world would then be impossibly limited, and you would
not be able to do most of the things you can normally do. You wouldn't even
be able to form thoughts about what you might do. That's the sort of box
you would stick your echoplex in if you limit it completely to midi program
change....I find that appalling, and would rather not disappoint people
with something like that, which would be way below our standards for a good
interface. That is why I remain unconvinced about the whole idea. (That and
my opinion that this use would violate the midi standard's definition of
program change.)

My opinion is that we would rather not introduce it at all if it will just
cause more inconsistencies and problems later. In this case, it will
already cause a lot of conflicts with other features likely to be in the
next versions of Loop based products. And for the versions after that, we
would just have to remove it again, which would just be a bigger hassle
than never introducing it in the first place. Our goal is to do what we can
now to maintain consistency with the future, so that we don't end up with
even worse legacy problems down the road. In this case, we will most
probably be reserving midi program change for it's intended purpose of
changing programs.

kim


______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com




From ???@??? Tue Jan 27 01:19:30 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 27 00:39:46 1998
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From: Anthony Bowyer-Lowe <anthony@amudarya.demon.co.uk>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
MMDF-Warning:  Parse error in original version of preceding line at post.mail.demon.net
Subject: Re: Kundun
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:25:05 -0000
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>I once saw a collection of small plays in the Body Politic Theatre in
Chicago,
>one of which was called "Phillip Glass Buys a Loaf of Bread," in which the
>actors conversed in a looping, minimalist way (in a minimalist bakery with
ONE
>loaf of bread) that interacted in an ever-shifting pattern....it is kind of
>hard to describe, but it BRILLIANTLY portrayed Glass' music in the form of
>"dialogue" and greatly shed light on how his music worked....and was amusing
>as hell!!!


Sounds great!
I often use operations from one system to create products in another system.
People tend to look at me strange when I say things like 'Anagrams are
maths are art are techno', though...

Here's an example of techno in ascii art:

X---X---X---X--o
X---X---X---X--o
X-x-X---X-x-X--o
OovoOovoOovoOovo

Possibly off-topic, but I have a strange suspicion other loopers are into
patterns, and algorithmic _thinking_. In my mind the Lexicon Vortex is
definitely an audio fractal generator.

Cheers,
ynohtnA.
--
Anthony Bowyer-Lowe <= The Essence Of Anthony.
http://www.amudarya.demon.co.uk/ (Updated: 01/98)




From ???@??? Tue Jan 27 01:19:26 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 27 00:05:22 1998
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From: Jeff Duke <jmar@bellsouth.net>
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Subject: Re: Kundun (and Steve Reich)
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Hey ya'll,
R&T, or anybody, could you explain what gradual changes in phase means,I am
going to look for Reich.It sounds cool and I have been wanting to do some
looping with real and analog drums.
thanks much,Jeff

R & T Cummings wrote:

> Some interesting ideas with the minimal music approaches, I think.
> One of favorite pieces is Steve Reich's _Drumming_ which at
> 1 1/2 hours length involves "changes of phase position, pitch and
> timbre" (liner notes). In this piece they start on tuned bongos and
> gradually introduce voice, marimbas and glockenspiels while all
> basically using the same rhythmic figure (with gradual changes of
> relative phase). Another approach that he used on some pieces (e.g. _Six
> Pianos), was changing phase in discrete steps of eigths etc. combined
> with addition/ subtraction/ replacement of notes.
>
> This latter technique seems to me to be simpler and maybe a more
> feasible way of getting started (Although, I personally have not
> really tried this to any depth). Any of you have some ideas on these
> sorts of techniques, as applied to machine-aided looping.
> Machine-aided looping (especially the 95% echo feedback type
> of looping) basically uses similar concepts, doesn't it?
>
> Thanks for the posts in this direction - this induces some new (well,
> actually old - let's say recycled) ideas!





From ???@??? Mon Jan 26 20:55:39 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 26 17:36:39 1998
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	"Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
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<html><HTML>
<FONT SIZE=-1></FONT>&nbsp;
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT>&nbsp;
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT>&nbsp;<FONT SIZE=-1></FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-1>KunDun&nbsp; is brilliant, isn't it....&nbsp;&nbsp; incredibly
vivid depiction of the Tibetan people and the hardships they've endured
for the last 50 years... they shall succeed I think...</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>Glass gets loopy here too... to great effect... I don't
if the music/sound from the film and the soundtrack were intended to work
together so well, and/or whether or not it was glass' idea or scorcese's,
but it blew me away... emo-tonal-overload..</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT>&nbsp;<FONT SIZE=-1></FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-1>Just saw Scorsese's film on the Dalai Lama, Kundun. Fantastic
work,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>important document.</FONT><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-1>Generous looping through much of this powerful and evocative
film c/o</FONT><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-1>Philip Glass' music.</FONT><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-1>As I was watching this film, some parts resembling the
great Konyaskatsii</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>(sp?) I realized that like it or not, my first exposure
to looping as a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>compositional idiom was via Glass music.</FONT><FONT SIZE=-1></FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-1>Hat's off.</FONT></HTML>

</html>

From ???@??? Mon Jan 26 22:40:11 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 26 20:41:01 1998
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From: klaw@iglou.com
Subject: Re: ANYONE KNOW THE MIDI PEDAL SCHEME FOR THE ECHOPLEX?
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:16:33 -0500
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Hello everyone .  Top o the day to ya. Regarding switching loops with ccs :
How is this done? I thought the ccs were feedback, vol. I switch with note
ons did I miss something?
Also perhaps a question for KIm : Is it possible with current hardware on
plex to reset loops to startpoint when using nxtloop? This has always
seemed so logical& musical.If I have a number of loops in a piece I need
them to  start at the beginning when I switch rather than run continously.
I supose it would have its uses in a random sort of way but its not very
predictable. Maybe have a option to reset or run like in mute mode.BTW
thanks Kim for your ideas on the quantize function. I finally found a use
for this!Works excellent in V5.0.
Also little tid bit for those interesed : Long delay module(on sampling
board) in Eventide 4000 does not change pitch when adjusting delay range
only lenghth>effectively performing a real time  time compression looping
function. Very wild. Still working on that page Kim. I have much to report.

                          Cheers   K Law
















>At 3:10 AM -0500 1/21/98, ENAT21213 wrote:
>>Thanks for the quick reply Kim.
>>      The echoplex sounds way more complex than my jamman.Im thinking of
>>investing in one?The only problem I have is this midi controller/echoplex
>>pedalboard access loop 1 thru 9 tap thing.
>>   What I do is midi merge two ada mc1 midi pedal controllers together .This
>>gives me access to all 19 of jammans loop functions without having to bank up
>>and down.The ada mc1 has 10 buttons on the face of one pedalboard.So with the
>>press of a button I can get around with ease (essential for me,especially
>>live).I would love it if the echoplex would react in a similar way.
>
>The Echoplex (the technology we at Aurisis develop that runs the echoplex
>is called Loop, btw) can react that way, but I suspect that your current
>pedals either won't do it or won't do it in a satisfactory way. You might
>want to consider upgrading to a more capable pedal, or get the pedal
>designed for the echoplex. Again, I'm not familiar with the ADA pedal, but
>I believe it is a very simple one. You can't expect it to do everything....
>
>>I realize
>>the echoplex does not accept midi program changes messages.You mentioned that
>>this feature will be added in a future echoplex.Any idea when this version
>>will be avalible?
>
>What I meant is we may add program change support to Loop for the purposes
>of changing programs, which is the purpose of that midi command. So you
>would be able to change from one setup to another by sending a program
>change command, in the same way you change patches on a multi-effect or a
>synth with program change messages.
>
>Using program change messages for executing functions on the echoplex is
>problematic, for one thing because it would interfere with us using it for
>the intended purpose defined in the midi standard of changing programs.
>Another reason is that a midi program change message simply contains less
>information than note and continuous control messages. We use all of the
>information in the later types to make the midi interface more elegant and
>musically intuitive, while allowing you to control more things with fewer
>buttons. Changing the interface to work with program change messages makes
>it less intuitive and harder to use, and some functions won't be available
>at all. And that's opposed to our general design philosophy for Loop. All
>of our efforts are focused on designing an interface that is musically
>useful and intuitive. We wouldn't want to release something that gives
>anyone a lesser experience with Loop. We'll continue to investigate this
>possibility, but I'm not very positive about it. Being compatible with
>every ancient midi pedal is not a task I relish!
>
>As far as when any future versions of Loop might be available, we don't
>discuss that. Since we just released a major version a few months ago, you
>might imagine that it won't be very soon, but we are always working on new
>developments.
>
>
>>Sounds like the midi note or continuous controller message for changing
>>loops in echoplex may work for me?Not shure though,is anyone out there
>>using a
>>similar set up to mine with the echoplex?If so mabey you can let me know how
>>this midi note/continouous controler thing works with your midi pedal.I
>>really
>>need to be able to jump from one function to the next with minimal tapping.
>
>I have a digitech PMC-10 pedal set up to do this, and it works very well. I
>got the pedal for $100.
>
>>     Any Oberheim dealers in my area?I live in Myrtle Beach S.C. ,anywhere in
>>S.C.,N.C. or GA. would work.I would love to try one out.I'd probably
>>order one
>>right now if I knew I could access most functions(especially loops 1 thru 9)
>>with the press of one button.
>
>You have to ask Oberheim about that.....
>
>kim
>
>
>>Thanks for your help and patience,
>>Brian McKenzie
>>
>>
>>In a message dated 98-01-20 06:39:06 EST, you write:
>>
>><< And last is switching with midi. Unlike the JamMan, the echoplex is more
>> like a sampler in this respect. It uses Midi Notes or Continuous Controller
>> messages for changing loops. If you have the velocity parameter turned on,
>> the Echoplex will use the velocity info in the note on message (or the
>> value of the controller) to set the volume of the loop you switch to. You
>> jump directly to the loop you want by pressing it's associated
>> Note/controller number. (you can set which notes/controllers it uses for
>> the loops.) >>
>
>
>______________________________________________________________________
>Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
>kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
>http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com





From ???@??? Mon Jan 26 22:40:21 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 26 22:07:51 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:16:51 -0500
From: Jeff Duke <jmar@bellsouth.net>
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<html><HTML>
&nbsp;(Georges Dupuis)

<P>What was the hardest thing to determine in the vinyl era?
<BR>Whether a Brian Eno LP was warped or whether a Philip Glass LP was
skipping.

<P>I just checked out The Glass Pages,Alot of various audio,some of which
doesn't
<BR>work but alot does.I had never listened to him except now I realize
that I have heard him .Varied,but all in a style of his own.I dug the ram
of 1001 airplanes but it seems to be an incomplete file.
<BR>Thanks for the tip,
<BR>Jeff

<P>innerspace@mediaone.net wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;

<P><FONT SIZE=-1>KunDun&nbsp; is brilliant, isn't it....&nbsp;&nbsp; incredibly
vivid depiction of the Tibetan people and the hardships they've endured
for the last 50 years... they shall succeed I think...</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>Glass gets loopy here too... to great effect... I don't
if the music/sound from the film and the soundtrack were intended to work
together so well, and/or whether or not it was glass' idea or scorcese's,
but it blew me away... emo-tonal-overload..</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;

<P><FONT SIZE=-1>Just saw Scorsese's film on the Dalai Lama, Kundun. Fantastic
work,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>important document.</FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-1>Generous looping through much of this powerful and evocative
film c/o</FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-1>Philip Glass' music.</FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-1>As I was watching this film, some parts resembling the
great Konyaskatsii</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>(sp?) I realized that like it or not, my first exposure
to looping as a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>compositional idiom was via Glass music.</FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-1>Hat's off.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
&nbsp;</HTML>

</html>

From ???@??? Mon Jan 26 22:40:20 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 26 22:05:41 1998
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<html><HTML>
By the way,It's at ; <A HREF="http://www.uni-paderborn.de/~pg/glass.html">http://www.uni-paderborn.de/~pg/glass.html</A>

<P>innerspace@mediaone.net wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;
<BR>&nbsp;

<P><FONT SIZE=-1>KunDun&nbsp; is brilliant, isn't it....&nbsp;&nbsp; incredibly
vivid depiction of the Tibetan people and the hardships they've endured
for the last 50 years... they shall succeed I think...</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>Glass gets loopy here too... to great effect... I don't
if the music/sound from the film and the soundtrack were intended to work
together so well, and/or whether or not it was glass' idea or scorcese's,
but it blew me away... emo-tonal-overload..</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;

<P><FONT SIZE=-1>Just saw Scorsese's film on the Dalai Lama, Kundun. Fantastic
work,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>important document.</FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-1>Generous looping through much of this powerful and evocative
film c/o</FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-1>Philip Glass' music.</FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-1>As I was watching this film, some parts resembling the
great Konyaskatsii</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>(sp?) I realized that like it or not, my first exposure
to looping as a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-1>compositional idiom was via Glass music.</FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-1>Hat's off.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
&nbsp;</HTML>

</html>

From ???@??? Tue Jan 27 10:39:35 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 27 04:14:22 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 06:28:23 +0200
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith)
Subject: Re: looper meeting at NAMM
Resent-Message-ID: <"PwFlkD.A.S0G.l0cz0"@ferret>
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>Hey those of you going to NAMM,
>
>how bout we try to get together for a little Looper Convention/Lunch at the
>show? I'll propose a time:
>

Hey Kim,

  Great idea. The boys from Fingerpaint would love to meet up with
everyone, but alas the realities of day jobs on the East Coast makes that
not very probable. Have a great time and let us know what's out there.

Patrick


 ***  ***    ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html  ***  **

  




From ???@??? Mon Jan 26 23:30:34 1998
>From kflint  Mon Jan 26 23:14:18 1998
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:05:37 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@annihilist.com>
Subject: looper meeting at NAMM
Resent-Message-ID: <"ke_UL.A.PFB.9cYz0"@ferret>
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Hey those of you going to NAMM,

how bout we try to get together for a little Looper Convention/Lunch at the
show? I'll propose a time:

saturday (jan 31), 1:00pm
at the Oberheim booth, for lack of a better idea. Hopefully there is a
place with edible food somewhere nearby.

see you then.....

kim

______________________________________________________________________
Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com




From ???@??? Tue Jan 27 10:39:25 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 27 02:44:01 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 05:33:25 -0500
From: R & T Cummings <R_T_Cummings@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Steve Reich, phase changes etc.
Sender: R & T Cummings <R_T_Cummings@compuserve.com>
To: Loopers Delight <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Message-ID: <199801270534_MC2-30C8-5F91@compuserve.com>
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There is a cool way of doing this (gradual phase changes) with a drum 
machine and a looper. 
Connect the drum machine to the looper and MIDI sync them together with
the drum machine being the master. Record a loop of the drum machine 
groove and keep the drum machine groove on. Next there are two ways of
hearing a gradual phase change:

1) Disconnect the MIDI sync and one of the two machines will inevitable 
speed up or slow down
2) Disconnect the MIDI and increase or decrease the drum machine tempo 
by a very small amount (e.g. from 90 to 91 or whatever)

Last of all, sit back and listen to the phase changes - hate to admit it
but I've 
done this for hours - automatic minimal music!

BTW, this is more or less based on the technique used by Reich on the 
_It's Gonna Rain_

Talk to ya later, Rob


Jeff Duke Sr. wrote:
>Hey ya'll,
>R&T, or anybody, could you explain what gradual changes in phase means,I
am
>going to look for Reich.It sounds cool and I have been wanting to do some
>looping with real and analog drums.
>thanks much,Jeff

>R & T Cummings wrote:

>> Some interesting ideas with the minimal music approaches, I think.
>> One of favorite pieces is Steve Reich's _Drumming_ which at
>> 1 1/2 hours length involves "changes of phase position, pitch and
>> timbre" (liner notes). In this piece they start on tuned bongos and
>> gradually introduce voice, marimbas and glockenspiels while all
>> basically using the same rhythmic figure (with gradual changes of
>> relative phase). Another approach that he used on some pieces (e.g. _Six
>> Pianos), was changing phase in discrete steps of eigths etc. combined
>> with addition/ subtraction/ replacement of notes.



From ???@??? Tue Jan 27 10:39:50 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 27 08:09:14 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:00:44 -0600
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Tom Spaulding <tspauldi@gibson.com>
Subject: Re: looper meeting at NAMM
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Kim and NAMMers-

Oberheim will be in Room 402 or 401 on the 2nd floor in the Gibson room.
All are welcome, and I'm sure there will be tasty NAMM hotdogs (aka
Sliders) nearby! 

Tom



At 01:05 AM 1/27/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Hey those of you going to NAMM,
>
>how bout we try to get together for a little Looper Convention/Lunch at the
>show? I'll propose a time:
>
>saturday (jan 31), 1:00pm
>at the Oberheim booth, for lack of a better idea. Hopefully there is a
>place with edible food somewhere nearby.
>
>see you then.....
>
>kim
>
>______________________________________________________________________
>Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
>kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
>http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com
>
>
>
>
>


From ???@??? Tue Jan 27 10:39:56 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 27 08:23:57 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:09:30 -0800
Message-ID: <0007F000.----@wj.com>
From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle)
Subject: Re[2]: Lexicon not known for MIDI know-how?!?
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>,
        Mike.Biffle@wj.com
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It's been my experience that given the price point of the LXP series as well as 
the JamMan and Vortex, that you could 

1. Design the unit for maximum sound quality and provide a deviously simple but 
useful function set... then implement the most simple software and hardware 
possible.

2. Cut corners on sound quality and funcions available and place emphasis on 
flashy graphics and a more robust midi implementation.

I'm not sure I accurately describe or do justice to the two various approaches, 
but I'll say this. I'll take my Lexies over most of the other products out 
there. (An EDP would be nice parsley for my musical salad.)

Also... As you climb in price, Lexicon products become very full featured and 
capable as well as musically stunning!

Just my .02 dollars worth,
-Miko

>> erich kory wrote:"I can do this with the Jamman from Lexicon (a
>> company not known for it's MIDI know-how)."
>> 

Greg Hogan replied...
>        I am sorry erich but the Lexicon PCM70 was the first processor
>to give you complete control over all of its functions!  This feature
>has been included in most of our processors since.  I do not see how you
>can justify your statement!

>        Best regards,

>        Greg Hogan
>        Lexicon Customer Service
>        Phone +781-280-0372
>        FAX +781-280-0499




From ???@??? Wed Jan 28 10:06:33 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 27 23:20:42 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 18:22:17 +0200
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith)
Subject: Vortex FS
Resent-Message-ID: <"md4N8D.A.ihG.kKtz0"@ferret>
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Hey Gearheads,

 Here's one off of rec.music.makers.market for ya....

>Lexicon Vortex Effects Processor for sale ($175 including foot switch and
>manual).  Also, Sunrise Pickup for acoustic instruments for sale ($150).
>E-Mail serious inquiries to MEHAMRICK@AOL.COM.

Good luck ,

Patrick


 ***  ***    ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html  ***  **

  




From ???@??? Tue Jan 27 10:40:05 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 27 09:44:44 1998
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From: Fmplautus <Fmplautus@aol.com>
Message-ID: <9439f366.34ce1919@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:27:52 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: The LoOpDoctOrs suggest worthy Looping device candidates
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Dear Loopers:

We saw the group Oregon last night.  We are in awe.

One thing, they could all use a really great looper to expand some sonic
possibilities.  Has any company ever thought about just sending them something
interesting in the mail?  We know where they are for the next two weeks.  

Best,
the LoOpDoctOrs


From ???@??? Tue Jan 27 10:40:09 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 27 10:06:40 1998
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Message-ID: <2535b7f1.34ce1b1a@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:36:25 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: ANYONE KNOW THE MIDI PEDAL SCHEME FOR THE ECHOPLEX?
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In a message dated 98-01-27 05:22:02 EST, you write:

<< I'd really like to encourage you to try the way the echoplex interface does
 work, first. The tapping "problem" really isn't a problem at all when you
 are familiar with how it works. >>

Kim,
I will definitely try the echoplex out on my next trip to Atlanta.
Thanks for your time,
Brian McKenzie


From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:55:57 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 30 19:22:43 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:10:10 -0500 (EST)
From: daniel <daniel@bway.net>
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test


From ???@??? Tue Jan 27 10:40:10 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 27 10:22:21 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:11:39 -0600
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Tom Spaulding <tspauldi@gibson.com>
Subject: Re: The LoOpDoctOrs suggest worthy Looping device candidates
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Rx of Loop-

Can't afford to be giving away the Loop John B, but an old spicy word in
the ear of an Oregon-o to call me in Nashville at 800-777-0795 ext. 527
would be appreciated. 

Tom "On my way again to Gomorrahritaville, lookin' for my pillar of salt"
Spaulding


At 11:27 AM 1/27/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Dear Loopers:
>
>We saw the group Oregon last night.  We are in awe.
>
>One thing, they could all use a really great looper to expand some sonic
>possibilities.  Has any company ever thought about just sending them
something
>interesting in the mail?  We know where they are for the next two weeks.  
>
>Best,
>the LoOpDoctOrs
>
>
>


From ???@??? Tue Jan 27 20:37:56 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 27 11:49:51 1998
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	id 0xxH12-0007N7-00; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:49:48 -0800
Message-ID: <34CE2BE4.5F7C@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:48:04 -0500
From: Jeff Schwartz <jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K)
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: craft project
References: <v01520d00b0f3127b47a9@[205.177.96.45]>
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Status: O
X-Status: 

Hey kids,
If you're like me, you have a big swarm of strange cables 
running from your pedalboard to your rack. I don't mean 
the usual pedalboard action where the signal goes in one 
end and out the other, but the kind where you have 
footswitches and controllers for a bunch of rack gizmos.
For example, I have three footswitches and a pedal for my 
Jamster & Vortex (side note-how long do you think it'll be 
before these suckers go up so much in price that I'll be 
afraid to take 'em to the gig, like a flametop Les Paul?) 
and a footswitch for a ProCo R2DU (two Rats in a 1 rack 
space box), in other words, four 1/4" stereo cables and 1 
MIDI cable. I carry my crap around in a soft rack case, 
tossing the pedals and cables in the back, since all the 
devices are quite shallow. Needless to say, I had a 
considerable spaghetti problem.
So, I decided to build my own snake. After a variety of 
tape/twist-tie configurations failed, I got $.50 of fabric 
at Ben Franklin and spent an afternoon sewing and 
listening to Paul Bley albums. I made a tube 7.5'x 1.5" 
and threaded my cables through it. Presto-quick and tidy 
setup and teardown. 
I suppose this little invention won't catch on because 
it's getting easier and easier to get one big controller 
that can run all your stuff or one gadget that does 
everything and then some (G-Force? Eventide? Powerbook 
with MAX?), but I figured I'd share my Martha Stewart 
moment with y'all.
Oh yeah, under no circumstances read Mark Vail's Vintage 
Synthesizers book. It's worse than pornography. I was 
filled with an unstoppable violent lust for gear. 
Fortunately for my finances, the only used gear store in 
town is full of Samick guitars and Peavey amps cast off by 
frustrated post-grunge teenage boys... 
-- 
Jeff Schwartz
jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu
http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html


From ???@??? Wed Jan 28 10:06:55 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 28 02:52:58 1998
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From: Jeff Schwartz <jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
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Hey kids,
If you're like me, you have a big swarm of strange cables 
running from your pedalboard to your rack. I don't mean 
the usual pedalboard action where the signal goes in one 
end and out the other, but the kind where you have 
footswitches and controllers for a bunch of rack gizmos.
For example, I have three footswitches and a pedal for my 
Jamster & Vortex (side note-how long do you think it'll be 
before these suckers go up so much in price that I'll be 
afraid to take 'em to the gig, like a flametop Les Paul?) 
and a footswitch for a ProCo R2DU (two Rats in a 1 rack 
space box), in other words, four 1/4" stereo cables and 1 
MIDI cable. I carry my crap around in a soft rack case, 
tossing the pedals and cables in the back, since all the 
devices are quite shallow. Needless to say, I had a 
considerable spaghetti problem.
So, I decided to build my own snake. After a variety of 
tape/twist-tie configurations failed, I got $.50 of fabric 
at Ben Franklin and spent an afternoon sewing and 
listening to Paul Bley albums. I made a tube 7.5'x 1.5" 
and threaded my cables through it. Presto-quick and tidy 
setup and teardown. 
I suppose this little invention won't catch on because 
it's getting easier and easier to get one big controller 
that can run all your stuff or one gadget that does 
everything and then some (G-Force? Eventide? Powerbook 
with MAX?), but I figured I'd share my Martha Stewart 
moment with y'all.
Oh yeah, under no circumstances read Mark Vail's Vintage 
Synthesizers book. It's worse than pornography. I was 
filled with an unstoppable violent lust for gear. 
Fortunately for my finances, the only used gear store in 
town is full of Samick guitars and Peavey amps cast off by 
frustrated post-grunge teenage boys... 
-- 
Jeff Schwartz
jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu
http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html


From ???@??? Wed Jan 28 10:06:44 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 28 01:37:31 1998
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Subject: Re: craft project
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 18:55:25 -0000
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From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
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>By the way, MIDI Solutions will reportedly be shipping the R8 in
>February--it's a 1U rack-mounted midi-controlled giz with eight relays that
>open and close eight 1/4" jacks.  Thus, you can control stuff that uses a
>1/4" phone-plug footswitch via midi.  (http://www.midisolutions.com).  That
>might be a solution to rack spaghetti for some of us.  (I want one for my
>Mesa/Boogie V-Twin, and there'll still be two jacks left over to run, like,
>the fog machine and the disco ball...)

I've been using the Rockman MIDI Octopus for that.  I've got two, they're 
half-rack units, really easy to use.  They're out of production, but 
they're easy to find used for under $100.  And no wall-wart.

Travis Hartnett


From ???@??? Tue Jan 27 20:38:15 1998
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From: "Scott Bullerwell" <tanelorn@dimensional.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: craft project
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:34:54 -0700
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Jeff's scheme is solid, if you're into sewing.  Also, there are
commercially available cable bundlers (shielded and unshielded) that can be
of use, as well as cheap garden hose (get the large diameter black rubber
stuff if possible--cut the ends off, thread your cables through--if they're
too thick to thread through, slit the hose longitudinally, stuff yer cables
in, seal it with black tape, and hey presto! instant snake.)  I would
however suggest the following:  Don't bundle signal cables and power cables
in one snake if you can avoid it at all.  In fact, don't run signal and
power cables next to each other under any circumstance where it can be
avoided--cross one over the other at 90 degrees if you must and keep the
gaffer tape handy.

By the way, MIDI Solutions will reportedly be shipping the R8 in
February--it's a 1U rack-mounted midi-controlled giz with eight relays that
open and close eight 1/4" jacks.  Thus, you can control stuff that uses a
1/4" phone-plug footswitch via midi.  (http://www.midisolutions.com).  That
might be a solution to rack spaghetti for some of us.  (I want one for my
Mesa/Boogie V-Twin, and there'll still be two jacks left over to run, like,
the fog machine and the disco ball...)

Scott Bullerwell
tanelorn@dimensional.com
Boulder, Colorado, USA


From ???@??? Tue Jan 27 20:38:01 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 27 13:01:58 1998
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From: Tom Spaulding <tspauldi@gibson.com>
Subject: Re: craft project
In-Reply-To: <34CE2BE4.5F7C@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
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Jeff-

Thanks for the chuckle! We've got walls and walls of pointy guitars with
extended cutaways and Floyd Rose whammies here in Nashville. We also have a
bunch of vintage Oberheim, Ensoniq, Roland, etc. Probably due to the fact
that this town is full of guys and gals who get free gear, and once they
lose/change their gigs, the gear gets sold in used and pawn shops. Great
shopping if you ever come by for a visit. Send me a wish list, I'll keep an
eye out for whatever.

BTW- If Mark's Vintage Synthesizers got you hot, stay far away from his
"The Beauty of the B" The Hammond B-3 Story. Probably not the thing for the
pedal-philes on this list, but if there is a latent organist in the crowd,
enjoy!!

Tom "Fattenin' up the Gear Fund" Spaulding


At 12:48 PM 1/27/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Hey kids,
>If you're like me, you have a big swarm of strange cables 
>running from your pedalboard to your rack. I don't mean 
>the usual pedalboard action where the signal goes in one 
>end and out the other, but the kind where you have 
>footswitches and controllers for a bunch of rack gizmos.
>For example, I have three footswitches and a pedal for my 
>Jamster & Vortex (side note-how long do you think it'll be 
>before these suckers go up so much in price that I'll be 
>afraid to take 'em to the gig, like a flametop Les Paul?) 
>and a footswitch for a ProCo R2DU (two Rats in a 1 rack 
>space box), in other words, four 1/4" stereo cables and 1 
>MIDI cable. I carry my crap around in a soft rack case, 
>tossing the pedals and cables in the back, since all the 
>devices are quite shallow. Needless to say, I had a 
>considerable spaghetti problem.
>So, I decided to build my own snake. After a variety of 
>tape/twist-tie configurations failed, I got $.50 of fabric 
>at Ben Franklin and spent an afternoon sewing and 
>listening to Paul Bley albums. I made a tube 7.5'x 1.5" 
>and threaded my cables through it. Presto-quick and tidy 
>setup and teardown. 
>I suppose this little invention won't catch on because 
>it's getting easier and easier to get one big controller 
>that can run all your stuff or one gadget that does 
>everything and then some (G-Force? Eventide? Powerbook 
>with MAX?), but I figured I'd share my Martha Stewart 
>moment with y'all.
>Oh yeah, under no circumstances read Mark Vail's Vintage 
>Synthesizers book. It's worse than pornography. I was 
>filled with an unstoppable violent lust for gear. 
>Fortunately for my finances, the only used gear store in 
>town is full of Samick guitars and Peavey amps cast off by 
>frustrated post-grunge teenage boys... 
>-- 
>Jeff Schwartz
>jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu
>http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html
>
>
>


From ???@??? Tue Jan 27 20:38:03 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 27 13:54:31 1998
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From: Fmplautus <Fmplautus@aol.com>
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:12:39 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:  Re: The LoOpDoctOrs suggest worthy Looping device candidates
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Hi Tom:

The LoOpDoctOrs have no "John B" in residence.  This doc's name is Kevin, but
I will pass on the information to Oregon.  :)

Have fun at Namm.  By the way, so far we are really excited about the new
software in the 'plex.  You guys did really good!

Best,
The LoOpDoctOrs


From ???@??? Tue Jan 27 20:38:08 1998
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unsubscribe

Jeff Duke wrote:

> Hey ya'll,
> R&T, or anybody, could you explain what gradual changes in phase means,I am
> going to look for Reich.It sounds cool and I have been wanting to do some
> looping with real and analog drums.
> thanks much,Jeff
>
> R & T Cummings wrote:
>
> > Some interesting ideas with the minimal music approaches, I think.
> > One of favorite pieces is Steve Reich's _Drumming_ which at
> > 1 1/2 hours length involves "changes of phase position, pitch and
> > timbre" (liner notes). In this piece they start on tuned bongos and
> > gradually introduce voice, marimbas and glockenspiels while all
> > basically using the same rhythmic figure (with gradual changes of
> > relative phase). Another approach that he used on some pieces (e.g. _Six
> > Pianos), was changing phase in discrete steps of eigths etc. combined
> > with addition/ subtraction/ replacement of notes.
> >
> > This latter technique seems to me to be simpler and maybe a more
> > feasible way of getting started (Although, I personally have not
> > really tried this to any depth). Any of you have some ideas on these
> > sorts of techniques, as applied to machine-aided looping.
> > Machine-aided looping (especially the 95% echo feedback type
> > of looping) basically uses similar concepts, doesn't it?
> >
> > Thanks for the posts in this direction - this induces some new (well,
> > actually old - let's say recycled) ideas!





From ???@??? Wed Jan 28 10:06:41 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 28 01:15:42 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 17:01:55 -0600
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Tom Spaulding <tspauldi@gibson.com>
Subject: The LoOpDoctOrs suggest...OB-1 Listens
In-Reply-To: <12d913a8.34ce4dc9@aol.com>
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Dr. Kevin-

All props to Kim and Co. for the update. We are but the cash-crazy crass
commercializers that bring it to you in an attractive package, nicely
displayed. Albeit in a creamy tint.

Thanks for tracking the Oregon Trail for us.

Keep On Beige-ing (Bejing?)

Tom "Oral Looping is not really Looping" Spaulding


From ???@??? Wed Jan 28 10:06:38 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 28 00:57:35 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 18:22:50 -0500
From: Jeff Duke <jmar@bellsouth.net>
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Organization: Tec Bab Labs
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References: <199801261726_MC2-30BC-E4E0@compuserve.com> <34CD1BA7.BBE3D7AB@bellsouth.net> <34CE5E3A.3F74D920@texas.net>
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I hope that is'nt directed at me!Sniff,sniff
Jeff

James McCollough wrote:

> unsubscribe
>
> Jeff Duke wrote:
>
> > Hey ya'll,
> > R&T, or anybody, could you explain what gradual changes in phase means,I am
> > going to look for Reich.It sounds cool and I have been wanting to do some
> > looping with real and analog drums.
> > thanks much,Jeff
> >
> > R & T Cummings wrote:
> >
> > > Some interesting ideas with the minimal music approaches, I think.
> > > One of favorite pieces is Steve Reich's _Drumming_ which at
> > > 1 1/2 hours length involves "changes of phase position, pitch and
> > > timbre" (liner notes). In this piece they start on tuned bongos and
> > > gradually introduce voice, marimbas and glockenspiels while all
> > > basically using the same rhythmic figure (with gradual changes of
> > > relative phase). Another approach that he used on some pieces (e.g. _Six
> > > Pianos), was changing phase in discrete steps of eigths etc. combined
> > > with addition/ subtraction/ replacement of notes.
> > >
> > > This latter technique seems to me to be simpler and maybe a more
> > > feasible way of getting started (Although, I personally have not
> > > really tried this to any depth). Any of you have some ideas on these
> > > sorts of techniques, as applied to machine-aided looping.
> > > Machine-aided looping (especially the 95% echo feedback type
> > > of looping) basically uses similar concepts, doesn't it?
> > >
> > > Thanks for the posts in this direction - this induces some new (well,
> > > actually old - let's say recycled) ideas!





From ???@??? Tue Jan 27 20:38:14 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 27 17:03:15 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:19:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Mark  Sottilaro <msottila@mailbox.syr.edu>
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: buckethead
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Hey,

If you like Buckethead, check out his ambient Axiom release Death Cube K

It's amazing.

Mark



From ???@??? Tue Jan 27 20:38:16 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 27 17:18:23 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:40:44 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com>
Subject: Re: buckethead
Resent-Message-ID: <"EFAEVB.A.4eE.zGoz0"@ferret>
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As I understood it, he had to use that "Death Cube K" anagram due to a
trademark infringement problem with the rap group called "The Bucketheads."
Bummer, huh?

kim

At 07:19 PM 1/27/98 -0500, Mark  Sottilaro wrote:
>Hey,
>
>If you like Buckethead, check out his ambient Axiom release Death Cube K
>
>It's amazing.
>
>Mark
_______________________________________________________
Kim Flint			408-752-9284
Mpact Systems Engineering	kflint@chromatic.com
Chromatic Research		http://www.chromatic.com



From ???@??? Tue Jan 27 20:38:18 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 27 18:10:56 1998
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:53:17 -0800
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From: Kim Flint <kflint@chromatic.com>
Subject: Re: craft project
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I think there are various cheap-o plastic products around to do this sort of
thing as well, generally for household extension cables and such. You can
probably find them in hardware stores. We have them in various strategic
parts of the house to prevent pet rabbits from chewing through cables. The
plastic slows 'em down a bit. (never could figure out how they don't
electrocute themselves, but they've almost killed me a couple times by
leaving exposed wire around after an insulation snack...)

kim 

At 01:34 PM 1/27/98 -0700, Scott Bullerwell wrote:
>Jeff's scheme is solid, if you're into sewing.  Also, there are
>commercially available cable bundlers (shielded and unshielded) that can be
>of use, as well as cheap garden hose (get the large diameter black rubber
>stuff if possible--cut the ends off, thread your cables through--if they're
>too thick to thread through, slit the hose longitudinally, stuff yer cables
>in, seal it with black tape, and hey presto! instant snake.)  
_______________________________________________________
Kim Flint			408-752-9284
Mpact Systems Engineering	kflint@chromatic.com
Chromatic Research		http://www.chromatic.com



From ???@??? Tue Jan 27 22:52:41 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 27 21:40:19 1998
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<html><HTML>
Actually, I'm kinda more hip to the anagram than the whole buckethead thang,
but then again thats just me.

<P><FONT SIZE=-2>either way its all good...</FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE><FONT SIZE=-2>As I understood it, he had to use that
"Death Cube K" anagram due to a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>trademark infringement problem with the rap group called
"The Bucketheads."</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>Bummer, huh?</FONT><FONT SIZE=-2></FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-2>kim</FONT><FONT SIZE=-2></FONT>

<P><FONT SIZE=-2>At 07:19 PM 1/27/98 -0500, Mark&nbsp; Sottilaro wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>>Hey,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>>If you like Buckethead, check out his ambient Axiom
release Death Cube K</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>>It's amazing.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>>Mark</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>_______________________________________________________</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>Kim Flint&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
408-752-9284</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>Mpact Systems Engineering&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
kflint@chromatic.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=-2>Chromatic Research&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<A HREF="http://www.chromatic.com">http://www.chromatic.com</A></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<FONT SIZE=-2>&nbsp;</FONT></HTML>

</html>

From ???@??? Wed Jan 28 10:06:34 1998
>From kflint  Tue Jan 27 23:46:28 1998
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Subject: Re: craft project
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>...Probably due to the fact
>that this town is full of guys and gals who get free gear, and once they
>lose/change their gigs, the gear gets sold in used and pawn shops. Great
>shopping if you ever come by for a visit. Send me a wish list, I'll keep an
>eye out for whatever.

I've always got my eye on free gear.  Please contact me directly so we can
work out the shipping details. ;)





From ???@??? Wed Jan 28 10:07:21 1998
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At 01:48 PM 1/27/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Hey kids,

SNIP

>considerable spaghetti problem.
>So, I decided to build my own snake. After a variety of 
>tape/twist-tie configurations failed, I got $.50 of fabric 
>at Ben Franklin and spent an afternoon sewing and 
>listening to Paul Bley albums. I made a tube 7.5'x 1.5" 
>and threaded my cables through it. Presto-quick and tidy 
>setup and teardown. 
>I suppose this little invention won't catch on because 
>it's getting easier and easier to get one big controller 
>that can run all your stuff or one gadget that does 
>everything and then some (G-Force? Eventide? Powerbook 
>with MAX?), but I figured I'd share my Martha Stewart 
>moment with y'all.

Jeff, was wondering if you'd consider doing a lace doily for the top of my
rack ;)

Seriously, you're going to make some lucky loopette one heck of a catch
someday ;0

if you added velcro, you could use it as a wrap--make getting the cables in
and out easier (yeah, I know it's being done commercially, but in a LIGHT
BLUE SILK CHENILLE to DIE FOR) . . .

I've been meaning to check out the drainage field hose section of Home Depot
and look for a practical diameter thaat I could slit and pack with cables


>Oh yeah, under no circumstances read Mark Vail's Vintage 
>Synthesizers book. It's worse than pornography. I was 
>filled with an unstoppable violent lust for gear. 

I'm on a post-gear orgy, 12-step program at the present time. Please respect
my WEAKENED state . . . no more references to LOVELY, LOOOOVVVELY, gear  (drool)



>Jeff Schwartz
>jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu
>http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html
>
>
>

drone on~~~~~~~~~~~~~Tom
Tom Lambrecht  hideo@concentric.net



From ???@??? Wed Jan 28 22:51:18 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 28 12:38:27 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 07:17:36
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: james rhodes <sharkey@texas.net>
Subject: Buckethead and fried chicken
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hello,,,personally, i do not like MOST of what Buckethead does,,,however i
find his all acoustic guitar playing on Jonas Hellborg's "Octave of the
holy innocents" to be outstanding (mike shrieve on drums) if you want a
sample of this in real audio try:

http://netbeat.com/products/cd91.htm

i must also confess,,,eating fried chicken DOES make you a better
player,,,i know,,it sounds crazy,,but there is a cosmic connection between
the consumption of well prepared fried chicken, and the creation of
music...just keep plenty of napkins around,,,or you might discover nature's
"fingerease"
>
>well till my next bucket of KFC,,,
james


From ???@??? Wed Jan 28 10:07:32 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 28 08:15:23 1998
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From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle)
Subject: Re[2]: craft project
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>,
        "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
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I use the Digital Music GCX Expander. It has 8 switchable relay audio loops 
(send and return) which also have inputs and ouputs. Very flexible. It only 
responds to CONTROL CHANGES though, so for some of you with cheesy stripped 
function midi pedals LOOK OUT! This has been a very reliable product which has 
NEVER betrayed me. That's nice in a product! No matter how much I like the other
whiz bang stuff in my rack, nearly all have gone south at one point or another.

It's part of their Ground Control product line. I use the Digitech PMC-10 midi 
pedal though. The Ground Control just didn't seem to have enough memory. They 
sell a memory upgrade which at least approaches the capacity of the PMC-10.

They have another product called the System Mix. A 1sp rack mixer with buffered 
inputs, 2 parallel busses with mix controls on the front panel, a midi through 
port... and a stereo Cab Tone speaker emulator which received favorable reviews 
recently. (I believe in Guitar Player.) It also has 2 midi controlled VCA's for 
volume control of the mixer without the long cable runs. I have to see and test 
one for any further impressions. (I'm always skeptical.)

Cheers,
-Miko

--------------------------------

>By the way, MIDI Solutions will reportedly be shipping the R8 in
>February--it's a 1U rack-mounted midi-controlled giz with eight relays that
>open and close eight 1/4" jacks.  Thus, you can control stuff that uses a
>1/4" phone-plug footswitch via midi.  (http://www.midisolutions.com).  That
>might be a solution to rack spaghetti for some of us.  (I want one for my
>Mesa/Boogie V-Twin, and there'll still be two jacks left over to run, like,
>the fog machine and the disco ball...)

I've been using the Rockman MIDI Octopus for that.  I've got two, they're 
half-rack units, really easy to use.  They're out of production, but 
they're easy to find used for under $100.  And no wall-wart.

Travis Hartnett



From ???@??? Wed Jan 28 22:51:24 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 28 14:21:35 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:13:32 -0500
From: Jeff Duke <jmar@bellsouth.net>
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I have been looking for a book and I finally found it.It's the Digital Delay
Handbook by Craig Anderton.(Amsco#38985)It goes into the uses and way to
control non midi gear using control voltage inputs and outputs that came on
some old gear.
I took 3 projects in the book and put them in a volume pedal and added a power
supply.I've had more fun as you say "bouncing off of pluto" with this thing!
  Well,if you use this you can send the pics of the rcgfkt to me.
Jeff Duke
jmar@bellsouth.net



CORROSIVE@aol.com wrote:

> Although I am just the owner of a lowly PDS-8000, I'd love to hear more
> feedback (ouch), tips & stuff regarding time machines... i personally feel
> lo-res looping is equally as kool as hi-res!!  I would love it if the Plex
> pro had a switch (or mod) so you could do 4 bit sampling (ala
> electro-harmonix super replay), cause the lo-res grain makes it sound like
> your loops were shot into space & bounced off Pluto before behind detuned &
> returned to your pitched down psyche...





From ???@??? Thu Jan 29 09:45:23 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 29 04:07:17 1998
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From: MIvanBerk@aol.com
Message-ID: <605355df.34cfd943@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 20:20:01 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
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Thought I'd post this to the group before going to Harmony Central.  Anyway,
I'm streamlining my rig a bit (quasi-significant financial woes, rationalized
as wanting to cut down to an easily portable affair for NYC).

Digitech RDS 8000, you're all familiar with it, 8second delay, with LFO for
modulation of delay time.  With two Hosa pedal switches for bypass and
hold/trigger functions (which I won't separate, 'cause I've got no other use
for them).  I even have a manual!  Excellent condition.  $250.00

MAM (Music-And-More) RS3 Resonator.  Based on the ol' Korg PS-3100 filter
section, 3 bandpass filters plus an LFO plus an envelope follower, filter
frequency sweepable via front panel knob or external CV pedal of your
choosing.  Sort of an extremely wacky Uni-Vibe and a Mu-Tron III crammed into
one rack space.  All analog...the sweet sound of slowly-moving Vactrols...mmm,
and quacking if you want it.  Great for coloring your loops.  Like new.  also
$250.00

Prefer NYC buyer.  If somebody wants 'em both, I'll throw in a two-space SKB
rack, which is where they reside now.

-Michael Berk
mivanberk@aol.com


From ???@??? Thu Jan 29 03:55:21 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 29 02:51:22 1998
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From: MIvanBerk <MIvanBerk@aol.com>
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 20:26:36 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: One more thing...
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I'd also like to sell a Boss SP-202 Dr. Sample, which I bought for a project
that never happened.  It's a 4-voice baby sampler that uses SmartMedia cards
for memory/storage.  Has two nifty filters and a ring modulator, which can be
applied to external audio sources.  This is a product aimed at DJ's, so while
you can't loop per se (press record, then stop, and immediately hear a loop),
you can configure it so as to always have external audio running through it,
and sample from that audio stream.  It's pretty good for that sort of thing.
And it is polyphonic, and it's tiny (looks like a grossly overinflated HP
calculator, or one of those Star Trek tricorders), which makes a neat little
tabletop looper if you're interested in that kind of thing.  Like new, w /
original box, manual, a Boss power adapter, and an extra 4MB SmartMedia card.

this is also $250.00

-Michael Berk
mivanberk@aol.com


From ???@??? Thu Jan 29 09:45:24 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 29 04:17:42 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 20:34:36 -0500 (EST)
From: CORROSIVE@aol.com
Message-ID: <980128203434_1716487033@mrin54>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: time machines/electro harmonix!
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hey, I just found my manual for the RDS-8000...spose i could scan it if
anybody cares. I also have one for the EH super replay- anybody out there
have the EH 16 sec dig delay manual scanned?? that would be cool to check out
   >>>>gregor


From ???@??? Thu Jan 29 09:45:22 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 29 03:56:08 1998
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From: CORROSIVE@aol.com
Message-ID: <1025b804.34cfe520@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:10:38 EST
To: Fmplautus@aol.com, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
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Subject: funky vintage boxes..
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i know this is slightly off-topic, but...I almost always use funky old stomp
boxes when loooping with the Plex & Jamman, and thought it would be
interesting to hear other peoples setups or fave processors for looping. O
yeah, speaking of manuals-anybody out there have a manual for the Roland
Dimension D??- I'd love to get a copy, if only to read the instructions badly
translated from Japanese..
thanks  >>>>gregor


From ???@??? Thu Jan 29 09:45:26 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 29 04:59:34 1998
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The recent remark concerning warped Eno vs. skipping Glass
vinyl platters ,for some reason made me think of the following:

My one and only live P.Glass experience was a concert given
at the Museum of Contemporary Art in Cincinatti Ohio back in
1980 (?) It was a small room seating maybe 100, the ensemble
was flown in from Rotterdam,( where he was involved with his
opera in sanskrit at the time), evidently for this show. They did
selections from Einstein on the Beach and Dance 1,2&3 and a
few other pieces. The sound engineer sat in the middle of the 
ensemble facing them. For all that it was "mimimalist" in nature
the overwhelming impression left on most audience members
as I recall was the sheer decibel level at which it was presented.
I got the impression that very few of these people had enjoyed
amplified music in a public performance context though to be
fair to them, the volume WAS high.

Secondly I was reminded of a story I once heard Robert Fripp
relate concerning a performance he and Eno once did in a
bullring in Spain during the 70's. I guess the whole gig had
it's own special ambiance what with the spectacle of gun toting
Basque seperatists at the airport during their arrival,and playing
the arena floor of this bullring to boot...but anyway.He said they
played the show and towards the end, got this loop going and then
they both left the "stage" and retired to an enclosure from which 
they could see the crowd through some shutters. As Eno peered
out at the crowd he was noticed and the next thing Fripp said this
fellow comes and pulls aside the shutters and says in a U.S. drawl
"Hey guys is the show over?", to which Eno replied "Well it is for
us, but not for you".

Just a couple memories, from apparently still active brain cells
......it's an age of wonder.....I wonder where I put that?.....

                                      Bryan Helm
                                      "Loop is pool backwards
                                        and pool starts with P
                                        which rhymes with T
                                        that is the first letter in
                                        the word....TROUBLE!" 


From ???@??? Wed Jan 28 22:51:42 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 28 18:58:56 1998
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Message-Id: <199801290243.VAA03729@shell.monmouth.com>
Reply-To: <andre@monmouth.com>
From: "andre" <andre@monmouth.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: midi 1/4 " switcher
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:44:38 -0500
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> 
> By the way, MIDI Solutions will reportedly be shipping the R8 in
> February--it's a 1U rack-mounted midi-controlled giz with eight relays
that
> open and close eight 1/4" jacks.  Thus, you can control stuff that uses a
> 1/4" phone-plug footswitch via midi.  (http://www.midisolutions.com). 
That
> might be a solution to rack spaghetti for some of us.  (I want one for my
> Mesa/Boogie V-Twin, and there'll still be two jacks left over to run,
like,
> the fog machine and the disco ball...)

also - vegetarian/genius (like Albert Einstein) Tom Scholz has sold the
midi  rockman OCTOPUS for years
it's a HALF space device that will control 8 devices also.... and with a
add-on for $75, you can set up a midi controllable effects loop....... i
see these used a lot. Lake butler/midigator also mad a few diff. 1/3 space
units that did this. save $$$ buy used

andre'


From ???@??? Thu Jan 29 03:55:12 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 29 00:46:24 1998
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:13:16 -0500
From: djdowling@earthlink.net
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Just saw an old green Echoplex at Cambridge music (Porter Sq, Cambridge
MA). The guy at the shop didn't seem to know if it worked or not.
That's all
D


From ???@??? Thu Jan 29 03:55:09 1998
>From kflint  Wed Jan 28 23:59:41 1998
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From: TritoneDW <TritoneDW@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8e9dd97b.34d02218@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:30:46 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: funky vintage boxes..
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<<i know this is slightly off-topic, but...I almost always use funky old stomp
boxes when loooping with the Plex & Jamman, and thought it would be
interesting to hear other peoples setups or fave processors for looping.>>

The only pedal I am completely enamored with right now is the Electro-Harmonix
Small Stone phase shifter. It's a texture machine. As cool as it is, though,
I'd give my left eyeball to find the Bad Stone I used to own. It was WAY
cooler--you could set the mid-point of the phase sweep, or disable the
modulation and set up a "stationary" phased sound with a manual knob. And what
beautiful knobs they were; huge black monster knobs. Other than that and a
decent reverb (and the JamPig, of course), I don't use much, although I may
soon get my hands on a Vortex, in which case it will probably become an
indispensible box as well.

Hey, just to add the the gear thread (don't you love talking about toys?), I
just got a Parker Fly, and I LOVE it. Anyone else out there play one of these
things? (This is gratuitous toy talk, I know, but I can't help myself.)

Have a loopy day, 

Drew W.


From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:56:13 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 30 22:18:01 1998
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From: David Myers <dmgraph@bway.net>
Subject: TEST 29 Jan
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TEST 29 Jan




From ???@??? Thu Jan 29 09:47:07 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 29 08:41:28 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:36:36 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Ed Drake <ejmd@erols.com>
Subject: Selling stuff over the internet
Resent-Message-ID: <"Zgr2zB.A.6UD.n4K00"@ferret>
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I had a question for anybody out there in loopland. I have an ADA MC-1 midi
controller for sale and I've had a response via the net, so I was wondering
what is the best way to avoid being ripped off? I've heard that shipping
COD via one of the package carriers (UPS, Fed Ex, etc) is the best way but
does anyone have advice or experiences they would like to share? Pardon my
naivete concerning this.
Thanks!
Ed




From ???@??? Thu Jan 29 09:47:09 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 29 08:58:33 1998
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	id 0xxxI7-0006b8-00; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:58:15 -0800
Date:	Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:42:36 -0600 (CST)
Sender: Todd Madson <crash@waste.org>
From:	Todd Madson <crash@waste.org>
To:	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Death Cube K Origin
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980129103944.25606C-100000@waste.org>
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Actually, it was not a conflict with the group the Bucketheads, who
came out after Buckethead's stuff was released.  Rather, he had
wanted to do some ambient stuff and he was under contract to Sony
in Japan who wanted him to be releasing full-on shredfests or they
wouldn't release it in the U.S.  So, an Editor at Keyboard magazine
came up with the anagram and the name stuck.  

His more musical stuff in a rock context is on the Praxis, "Transmutation"
recording.  The Death Cube K stuff is fine for the ambient-loopheads among
us.  

-Todd.




From ???@??? Thu Jan 29 09:47:10 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 29 09:01:00 1998
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From: "Matt McCabe" <mattm@bi-tech.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Selling stuff over the internet
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:51:08 -0800
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> From: Ed Drake <ejmd@erols.com>

> I had a question for anybody out there in loopland. I have an ADA MC-1
midi
> controller for sale and I've had a response via the net, so I was
wondering
> what is the best way to avoid being ripped off? I've heard that shipping
> COD via one of the package carriers (UPS, Fed Ex, etc) is the best way
but
> does anyone have advice or experiences they would like to share? Pardon
my
> naivete concerning this.

Ed,

Definitely ship COD.  Trust no one.  There are many flaky people out there
with internet access.  I've sold and bought a number of things over the net
via COD.  It has worked without a flaw everytime.  The only bummer is that
it can take up to a month to get your money if you ship COD via UPS.  

Good Luck!

Matt


From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:50:25 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 30 09:08:43 1998
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Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD014CC06@migarexch01.maritz.com>
From: "Liebig, Steuart A." <LiebigSA@Maritz.com>
To: "Liebig, Steuart A." <LiebigSA@Maritz.com>,
        "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: time machines/electro harmonix!
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:14:38 -0600
X-Priority: 3
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I second the request for  an EH 16-second delay manual. There's a guy
who sells copies for $1.50 a page, but that seems a little high . . .

steuart

> ----------
> From: 	CORROSIVE@aol.com
> Reply To: 	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Sent: 	Thursday, January 29, 1998 4:17 AM
> To: 	LiebigSA@maritz.com
> Subject: 	time machines/electro harmonix!
> 
> hey, I just found my manual for the RDS-8000...spose i could scan it
> if
> anybody cares. I also have one for the EH super replay- anybody out
> there
> have the EH 16 sec dig delay manual scanned?? that would be cool to
> check out
>    >>>>gregor
> 


From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:50:19 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 30 08:07:49 1998
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Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD014CC07@migarexch01.maritz.com>
From: "Liebig, Steuart A." <LiebigSA@Maritz.com>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Selling stuff over the internet
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:16:13 -0600
X-Priority: 3
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I think that COD is great, have done it many times.

> ----------
> From: 	Ed Drake
> Reply To: 	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Sent: 	Thursday, January 29, 1998 8:41 AM
> To: 	LiebigSA@maritz.com
> Subject: 	Selling stuff over the internet
> 
> I had a question for anybody out there in loopland. I have an ADA MC-1
> midi
> controller for sale and I've had a response via the net, so I was
> wondering
> what is the best way to avoid being ripped off? I've heard that
> shipping
> COD via one of the package carriers (UPS, Fed Ex, etc) is the best way
> but
> does anyone have advice or experiences they would like to share?
> Pardon my
> naivete concerning this.
> Thanks!
> Ed
> 
> 
> 


From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:50:24 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 30 08:59:22 1998
Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.73 #8)
	id 0xxxvm-00037j-00; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:39:14 -0800
Message-Id: <199801291725.KAA30288@hyper.dimensional.com>
From: "Scott Bullerwell" <tanelorn@dimensional.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Selling stuff over the internet
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:17:38 -0700
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http://www.tradesafe.com

Your buyer sends them the dough.  They hold it in escrow.  You send your
buyer the merchandise.  They then have a short period of time to evaluate
it and either send it back to you or keep it.  

I've got a few friends who have used tradesafe more than once, and they're
very happy with it.

Scott Bullerwell
tanelorn@dimensional.com

----------
> From: Ed Drake <ejmd@erols.com>
> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Subject: Selling stuff over the internet
> Date: Thursday, January 29, 1998 09:36
> 
> I had a question for anybody out there in loopland. I have an ADA MC-1
midi
> controller for sale and I've had a response via the net, so I was
wondering
> what is the best way to avoid being ripped off? I've heard that shipping
> COD via one of the package carriers (UPS, Fed Ex, etc) is the best way
but
> does anyone have advice or experiences they would like to share? Pardon
my
> naivete concerning this.
> Thanks!
> Ed
> 
> 


From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:50:23 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 30 08:58:19 1998
Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.73 #8)
	id 0xxxvk-00037a-00; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:39:12 -0800
Message-ID: <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD014CC08@migarexch01.maritz.com>
From: "Liebig, Steuart A." <LiebigSA@Maritz.com>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: time machines/electro harmonix!
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:17:43 -0600
X-Priority: 3
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Status: O
X-Status: 

P.S. I've heard that EH is going to reissue the 16-second, but when?
Does anybody have any info on this?

steuart

> ----------
> From: 	Liebig, Steuart A.
> Sent: 	Thursday, January 29, 1998 9:14 AM
> To: 	Liebig, Steuart A.; 'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'
> Subject: 	RE: time machines/electro harmonix!
> 
> I second the request for  an EH 16-second delay manual. There's a guy
> who sells copies for $1.50 a page, but that seems a little high . . .
> 
> steuart
> 
> 	----------
> 	From: 	CORROSIVE@aol.com
> 	Reply To: 	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> 	Sent: 	Thursday, January 29, 1998 4:17 AM
> 	To: 	LiebigSA@maritz.com
> 	Subject: 	time machines/electro harmonix!
> 
> 	hey, I just found my manual for the RDS-8000...spose i could
> scan it if
> 	anybody cares. I also have one for the EH super replay- anybody
> out there
> 	have the EH 16 sec dig delay manual scanned?? that would be cool
> to check out
> 	   >>>>gregor
> 
> 


From ???@??? Thu Jan 29 09:47:13 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 29 09:37:01 1998
Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.73 #8)
	id 0xxxtR-0002ri-00; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:36:49 -0800
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:18:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Stew Benedict <benedict@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Selling stuff over the internet
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
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COD has worked well for me, both buying and selling.  I only had one instance
out of about 15 where the buyer changed his mind, and the shipper had to
ship the items back to me.

Stew

On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, Ed Drake wrote:

> I had a question for anybody out there in loopland. I have an ADA MC-1 midi
> controller for sale and I've had a response via the net, so I was wondering
> what is the best way to avoid being ripped off? I've heard that shipping
> COD via one of the package carriers (UPS, Fed Ex, etc) is the best way but
> does anyone have advice or experiences they would like to share? Pardon my
> naivete concerning this.
> Thanks!
> Ed
> 
> 
> 
> 


From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:50:18 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 30 07:52:21 1998
Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.73 #8)
	id 0xxyLd-0005qr-00; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:05:57 -0800
Message-Id: <199801291754.KAA30553@hyper.dimensional.com>
From: "Scott Bullerwell" <tanelorn@dimensional.com>
To: "Looper's Delight" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Signal Path Necromancy
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:46:28 -0700
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It's like a puzzle, only not fun: 

My setup consists of a guitar w/midi pickup and two outboard synths
controlled by same.  

All signals (dry guitar, synth 1, synth 2) are routed into a mixer.  

All signals have their own volume pedal between the source and the mixer.

Signal processors are mounted in FX loop of mixer (Aux 1).  Whole lotta
syrup added here: chorus, detune, delay, doppler panning, flange,
harmonizer, sodomizer, transmogrifier, little plastic box that goes "bing!"
etc.

Looper is mounted thus: mixer's "Tape Out" to looper's input.  Output from
looper goes into empty channel on mixer.  

I want to be able to send the signal of my choice (guitar, synth 1, synth
2, or any combination thereof) to the looper.

Problem: the looper records wet signal in this configuration.  The looper
is plugged into the board, and to get the loop back into some semblance of
a stereo image I bring up the FX level on that channel AGAIN.  Nasty comb
filtering, squealing, etc.

Solution: run only dry signal to the looper.  But HOW?  There's three
signal sources, and all of them are stereo even when dry (stereo guitar
preamp, stereo synths).  I can pull half-inserts off of the mono
channels... what about a resistive mixer?  Hey, that just might work! 
Patch the three mono dry half-insert signals into a resistive mixer and
into the looper, then out of the looper into the board and through the
stereo FX bus for some syrup.

Anyone got a more rational/elegant/simple/prudent idea than this?  I'd love
to hear it!

Scott Bullerwell
tanelorn@dimensional.com
Boulder, Colorado, USA








From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:50:10 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 30 07:34:18 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:15:46 -0800
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From: Mike.Biffle@wj.com (Mike Biffle)
Subject: Re[2]: Selling stuff over the internet
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>, "Matt McCabe" <mattm@bi-tech.com>
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Ed Drake ...
>> I had a question for anybody out there in loopland. I have an ADA MC-1
>>midi controller for sale and I've had a response via the net, so I was
>>wondering what is the best way to avoid being ripped off? I've heard that 
>>shipping COD via one of the package carriers (UPS, Fed Ex, etc) is the best 
>>way but does anyone have advice or experiences they would like to share? 
>>Pardon my naivete concerning this.

>Matt McCabe said...
>Definitely ship COD.  Trust no one.  There are many flaky people out there
>with internet access.  I've sold and bought a number of things over the net
>via COD.  It has worked without a flaw everytime.  The only bummer is that
>it can take up to a month to get your money if you ship COD via UPS.  
     
     UPS is usually a little on the slow side. 2-3 weeks for them to mail 
     you your check... It usually goes OK.
     
     Once I received a cryptic piece of paper which sort of looked like a 
     check. I took it to the bank and 'deposited' it. The bank didn't even 
     know if it was a check or not! It bounced. It took me around 4-6 
     months to straighten this out with UPS. Bummer. No one at UPS could 
     help me at all until I started writing threatening letters to their 
     corporate collection department.
     
     I've had good success with FedEx COD. You get it overnight or in 2 
     days usually. Have the buyer cut a money order or cashier check for 
     the correct amount. FedEx will just forward that to you. 
     
     A couple of times UPS has had the buyer write the check to *them*, 
     then processed that through their accounting department, and then 
     written *me* a check! That takes a long time as well. A way around 
     this is to definitely have the buyer hand them a money order made out 
     to your full legal name. They can't cash that and usually just forward 
     it to you. Much Better!
     
     Never have I had a bad piece of gear.
     
     Good luck
     -Miko


From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:48:49 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 29 13:35:00 1998
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Message-ID: <34D0D180.D5911764@bellsouth.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:59:12 -0500
From: Jeff Duke <jmar@bellsouth.net>
Reply-To: jmar@bellsouth.net
Organization: Tec Bab Labs
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Subject: Re: glass eno
References: <9801281936.0RJWZ00@dinosaur.com>
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I hope everybody knows that my "remark" about Eno and Glass was a joke
from The Glass Pages, there are more too.However jokes are only funny if
there is an element of truth to them. I loved the Fripp and Eno concert
story, now thats funny.
Jeff

bryan.helm@dinosaur.com wrote:

> The recent remark concerning warped Eno vs. skipping Glass
> vinyl platters ,for some reason made me think of the following:
>
> My one and only live P.Glass experience was a concert given
> at the Museum of Contemporary Art in Cincinatti Ohio back in
> 1980 (?) It was a small room seating maybe 100, the ensemble
> was flown in from Rotterdam,( where he was involved with his
> opera in sanskrit at the time), evidently for this show. They did
> selections from Einstein on the Beach and Dance 1,2&3 and a
> few other pieces. The sound engineer sat in the middle of the
> ensemble facing them. For all that it was "mimimalist" in nature
> the overwhelming impression left on most audience members
> as I recall was the sheer decibel level at which it was presented.
> I got the impression that very few of these people had enjoyed
> amplified music in a public performance context though to be
> fair to them, the volume WAS high.
>
> Secondly I was reminded of a story I once heard Robert Fripp
> relate concerning a performance he and Eno once did in a
> bullring in Spain during the 70's. I guess the whole gig had
> it's own special ambiance what with the spectacle of gun toting
> Basque seperatists at the airport during their arrival,and playing
> the arena floor of this bullring to boot...but anyway.He said they
> played the show and towards the end, got this loop going and then
> they both left the "stage" and retired to an enclosure from which
> they could see the crowd through some shutters. As Eno peered
> out at the crowd he was noticed and the next thing Fripp said this
> fellow comes and pulls aside the shutters and says in a U.S. drawl
> "Hey guys is the show over?", to which Eno replied "Well it is for
> us, but not for you".
>
> Just a couple memories, from apparently still active brain cells
> ......it's an age of wonder.....I wonder where I put that?.....
>
>                                       Bryan Helm
>                                       "Loop is pool backwards
>                                         and pool starts with P
>                                         which rhymes with T
>                                         that is the first letter in
>                                         the word....TROUBLE!"





From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:48:50 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 29 13:35:23 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:47:42 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Len Seligman <seligman@mitre.org>
Subject: Re: Selling stuff over the internet
In-Reply-To: <199801291725.KAA30288@hyper.dimensional.com>
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Another option is Trade Direct at http://www.trade-direct.com. They seem a
little cheaper than tradesafe, but it's basically the same idea. (5% fee
for up to $1000, with a minimum of just $5). Also, they offer a pay by
credit card option, though there's an additional 3% charge for that.

-Len

At 10:17 AM 1/29/98 -0700, Scott Bullerwell wrote:
>http://www.tradesafe.com
>
>Your buyer sends them the dough.  They hold it in escrow.  You send your
>buyer the merchandise.  They then have a short period of time to evaluate
>it and either send it back to you or keep it.  
>
>I've got a few friends who have used tradesafe more than once, and they're
>very happy with it.
>
>Scott Bullerwell
>tanelorn@dimensional.com
>
>----------
>> From: Ed Drake <ejmd@erols.com>
>> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>> Subject: Selling stuff over the internet
>> Date: Thursday, January 29, 1998 09:36
>> 
>> I had a question for anybody out there in loopland. I have an ADA MC-1
>midi
>> controller for sale and I've had a response via the net, so I was
>wondering
>> what is the best way to avoid being ripped off? I've heard that shipping
>> COD via one of the package carriers (UPS, Fed Ex, etc) is the best way
>but
>> does anyone have advice or experiences they would like to share? Pardon
>my
>> naivete concerning this.
>> Thanks!
>> Ed
>> 
>> 
>
>
>


From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:49:46 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 30 00:49:25 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:27:08 -0800
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel)
Subject: Re: funky vintage boxes..
Resent-Message-ID: <"uKuXd.A.CrB.GMR00"@ferret>
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At 9:10 PM 1/28/98, CORROSIVE@aol.com wrote:
>i know this is slightly off-topic, but...I almost always use funky old stomp
>boxes when loooping with the Plex & Jamman, and thought it would be
>interesting to hear other peoples setups or fave processors for looping. O

I have 2 current faves, an original Electro-Harmonix Memory Man analog
delay, and the DOD Gonkulator distortion/ring modulator. The MM is a great
source of sounds on its own, by twiddling with the delay and feedback
knobs, and has a very seasick-sounding chorus mode. The Gonkulator is a
pretty lousy ring modulator, it only gives you a fixed 500hz modulating
frequency, no external input, and it emits a constant 500hz buzz when it's
engaged, whether there's any input signal or not, but, still, it's great
for thin, crummy disharmonic noise. And we all love that, don't we?

________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org  : www.peak.org/~improv/

"...there will come a day when you won't have to use
gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in
your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper
type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em
together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em
together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire."
                                            -Sun Ra
________________________________________________________




From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:48:54 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 29 14:14:17 1998
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From: "Jesse Kudler" <jkudler@wesleyan.edu>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: glass eno
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 17:00:32 -0500
Message-ID: <01bd2d01$51723ba0$714c8581@jkudler.stu.wesleyan.edu>
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A side note: Phillip Glass was recently parodied on the highly over-rated
South Park on comedy Central, and he once got a reference on the Simpsons.

"An evening with Phillip Glass.  Just an evening?" -H. Simpson

-Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: bryan.helm@dinosaur.com <bryan.helm@dinosaur.com>
To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com <loopers-delight@annihilist.com>
Date: Thursday, January 29, 1998 7:02 AM
Subject: glass eno


>
>The recent remark concerning warped Eno vs. skipping Glass
>vinyl platters ,for some reason made me think of the following:
>
>My one and only live P.Glass experience was a concert given
>at the Museum of Contemporary Art in Cincinatti Ohio back in
>1980 (?) It was a small room seating maybe 100, the ensemble
>was flown in from Rotterdam,( where he was involved with his
>opera in sanskrit at the time), evidently for this show. They did
>selections from Einstein on the Beach and Dance 1,2&3 and a
>few other pieces. The sound engineer sat in the middle of the
>ensemble facing them. For all that it was "mimimalist" in nature
>the overwhelming impression left on most audience members
>as I recall was the sheer decibel level at which it was presented.
>I got the impression that very few of these people had enjoyed
>amplified music in a public performance context though to be
>fair to them, the volume WAS high.
>
>Secondly I was reminded of a story I once heard Robert Fripp
>relate concerning a performance he and Eno once did in a
>bullring in Spain during the 70's. I guess the whole gig had
>it's own special ambiance what with the spectacle of gun toting
>Basque seperatists at the airport during their arrival,and playing
>the arena floor of this bullring to boot...but anyway.He said they
>played the show and towards the end, got this loop going and then
>they both left the "stage" and retired to an enclosure from which
>they could see the crowd through some shutters. As Eno peered
>out at the crowd he was noticed and the next thing Fripp said this
>fellow comes and pulls aside the shutters and says in a U.S. drawl
>"Hey guys is the show over?", to which Eno replied "Well it is for
>us, but not for you".
>
>Just a couple memories, from apparently still active brain cells
>......it's an age of wonder.....I wonder where I put that?.....
>
>                                      Bryan Helm
>                                      "Loop is pool backwards
>                                        and pool starts with P
>                                        which rhymes with T
>                                        that is the first letter in
>                                        the word....TROUBLE!"
>
>



From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:49:07 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 29 15:16:03 1998
Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 1.73 #8)
	id 0xy3BL-0007M3-00; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:15:39 -0800
Message-ID: <34D1063C.A43846CF@bellsouth.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 17:44:12 -0500
From: Jeff Duke <jmar@bellsouth.net>
Reply-To: jmar@bellsouth.net
Organization: Tec Bab Labs
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re: glass eno
References: <01bd2d01$51723ba0$714c8581@jkudler.stu.wesleyan.edu>
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Over rated South Park!I'd beg your pardon but it's out of the context of this
group.E-mail me privatly and I'll chastise you soundly.
I mean this in the best possible way,
Jeff

Jesse Kudler wrote:

> A side note: Phillip Glass was recently parodied on the highly over-rated
> South Park on comedy Central, and he once got a reference on the Simpsons.
>
> "An evening with Phillip Glass.  Just an evening?" -H. Simpson
>
> -Jesse
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bryan.helm@dinosaur.com <bryan.helm@dinosaur.com>
> To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com <loopers-delight@annihilist.com>
> Date: Thursday, January 29, 1998 7:02 AM
> Subject: glass eno
>
> >
> >The recent remark concerning warped Eno vs. skipping Glass
> >vinyl platters ,for some reason made me think of the following:
> >
> >My one and only live P.Glass experience was a concert given
> >at the Museum of Contemporary Art in Cincinatti Ohio back in
> >1980 (?) It was a small room seating maybe 100, the ensemble
> >was flown in from Rotterdam,( where he was involved with his
> >opera in sanskrit at the time), evidently for this show. They did
> >selections from Einstein on the Beach and Dance 1,2&3 and a
> >few other pieces. The sound engineer sat in the middle of the
> >ensemble facing them. For all that it was "mimimalist" in nature
> >the overwhelming impression left on most audience members
> >as I recall was the sheer decibel level at which it was presented.
> >I got the impression that very few of these people had enjoyed
> >amplified music in a public performance context though to be
> >fair to them, the volume WAS high.
> >
> >Secondly I was reminded of a story I once heard Robert Fripp
> >relate concerning a performance he and Eno once did in a
> >bullring in Spain during the 70's. I guess the whole gig had
> >it's own special ambiance what with the spectacle of gun toting
> >Basque seperatists at the airport during their arrival,and playing
> >the arena floor of this bullring to boot...but anyway.He said they
> >played the show and towards the end, got this loop going and then
> >they both left the "stage" and retired to an enclosure from which
> >they could see the crowd through some shutters. As Eno peered
> >out at the crowd he was noticed and the next thing Fripp said this
> >fellow comes and pulls aside the shutters and says in a U.S. drawl
> >"Hey guys is the show over?", to which Eno replied "Well it is for
> >us, but not for you".
> >
> >Just a couple memories, from apparently still active brain cells
> >......it's an age of wonder.....I wonder where I put that?.....
> >
> >                                      Bryan Helm
> >                                      "Loop is pool backwards
> >                                        and pool starts with P
> >                                        which rhymes with T
> >                                        that is the first letter in
> >                                        the word....TROUBLE!"
> >
> >





From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:49:22 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 29 18:46:14 1998
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 21:40:16 -0500 (EST)
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Tom Lambrecht <hideo@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Selling stuff over the internet
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Ed: 

Ever since i made the costly error of joining this newsgroup ;) there has
been only one means of satisfying my wanton lust for black boxes . . .

the Net--I've purchased everything COD (unless it was about $ 50 or less and
I had a good vibe from the buyer) havent' been burned yet (tosses Boss
flanger pedal over left shoulder)--I basically put together my whole setup
from the Net and sold some of it as well

I've heard Fed X is the best to do COD from the seller's standpoint cuz' the
check comes right back Fed X . . . of course it's not cheap

Priority Mail is cheap, but I've lost packages AND IF YOU DO IMHO you are
screwed!--though a guy shipped me a Juno 6 keyboard COD in hte mail cuz' he
claimed he got his money faster from the USPS

I like UPS and Fed X cuz' you can track hte package by shipping # on their
Web sites--if the blip diappears from the screen, at least you can point the
finger at someone

good luck   Tom


hmmmm . . . a MIDI controller . . . Naaah, don't want to get involved in
that crazy MIDI stuff . . . .still . . .it's probably cheap . . .HOW MANY
RACK SPACES IS IT?



At 11:36 AM 1/29/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I had a question for anybody out there in loopland. I have an ADA MC-1 midi
>controller for sale and I've had a response via the net, so I was wondering
>what is the best way to avoid being ripped off? I've heard that shipping
>COD via one of the package carriers (UPS, Fed Ex, etc) is the best way but
>does anyone have advice or experiences they would like to share? Pardon my
>naivete concerning this.
>Thanks!
>Ed
>
>
>
>
>
Tom Lambrecht  hideo@concentric.net



From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:49:27 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 29 21:56:50 1998
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	id 0xy7Ab-00055A-00; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:31:09 -0800
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:01:44 -0500 (EST)
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To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Tom Lambrecht <hideo@concentric.net>
Subject: RDS 8000 sighting
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RDS 8000  
we know it, we wuv it



  NM condition (whatever)   $225


Trevor    e-mail Van Eyck@interlog.com


drone on~~~~Tom

ps--contributions to the Digitech/Loopers web page?
Tom Lambrecht  hideo@concentric.net



From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:49:26 1998
>From kflint  Thu Jan 29 21:43:24 1998
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From: CORROSIVE@aol.com
Message-ID: <980130003700_811123688@mrin52>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:  Re: funky vintage boxes..
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hey Drew, thanks for the reply- i love talking about toys too!
i've been wondering about Parker fly's (flies?) for a while... i have a bunch
o vintage guitars, but also have a Steinberger i use when precision is an
issue..but the lack of a headstock buggs me too much to use it live, hence
the Parker interest.
 As for Electro Harmonix stuff, i have TONS of their pedals & they are
totally the shit! never had a BadStone, but have small stone, electric
mistress, clone theory, etc... both the small clone & polychorus  R way cool
in terms of modulation efx-
big muff pi (not the deluxe big muff, tho-it doesnt sound nearly as great ) &
graphic fuzz are my alltime fave distortion devices... and if U ever see a
super replay, BUY IT!  4 seconds of crazy lo res looping from outer
space...the attack delay is way outta control, too   >>>>>>gregor


From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:49:45 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 30 00:32:01 1998
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From: "future perfect" <artmusic@gte.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: funky vintage boxes..
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 03:28:41 -0500
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Corynne, do you like the X-15??? I traded mine in on a Ground Control
because I believe the X-15 essentially can control only one midi
channel...is your whole rig on one midi channel?? Lucky, lucky!!!

Dave Eichenberger
*********************************************************************
'Future Perfect' - progressive art music - visit our website at:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082






From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:49:47 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 30 00:50:31 1998
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From: CORROSIVE@aol.com
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Subject: Re: funky vintage boxes..
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Ok, cool- now that were being gear indulgent, how about everybody listing
their top 5 loop oriented desert island discs...


From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:54:42 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 30 11:49:06 1998
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Message-Id: <199801301623.IAA26866@scv3.apple.com>
Subject: RE: time machines/electro harmonix!
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 10:23:37 -0000
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From: "T.W. Hartnett" <hartnett.t@apple.com>
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>P.S. I've heard that EH is going to reissue the 16-second, but when?
>Does anybody have any info on this?

I called the EH folks about this a couple of months ago, and they 
confirmed that it's going to be reissued, but could only say sometime in 
'98.

Travis Hartnett


From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:54:35 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 30 11:09:12 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:35:25 +0000
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Subject: Re: funky vintage boxes..
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I have to say one of my favorite toys is my ancient pink Ibanez analog
delay pedal. Crank the feedback all the way up and twiddle the time knob
and the thing just goes berzerk. Great overtones on the runnaway, as
well- The little bastard won't evolving the sound.

Makes you wonder how long the loop is on that- .01 sec?



Trevor


From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:49:50 1998
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Reply-To: "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@earthlight.net>
From: "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@earthlight.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: funky vintage boxes..
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 03:24:37 -0800
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>Ok, cool- now that were being gear indulgent, how about everybody listing
>their top 5 loop oriented desert island discs...


Okay then!  :)

Rhythm Devils - The Apocalypse Sessions
Robert Fripp - Let The Power Fall
Genesis - The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
Sylvian/Fripp - The First Day
Grateful Dead - Infrared Roses

I think those could be the bearably listened to with repetition, though I'd
rather just have my rig with me on a desert island, frankly. :)

Stephen Goodman       * Download The Loop Of The Week and more!
EarthLight Studios         * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios
*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------



From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:49:57 1998
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From: "Peter Thompson" <pt205@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
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Subject: Desert Island Discs
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:30:17 -0000
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Here are my five faves, for what it's worth:

1    Gone to Earth (Instrumental) - David Sylvian
Why does no-one ever mention this album?  It is truly the most beautiful
looping album ever made, yet is roundly ignored, even by people who should
know better.

2    A Blessing of Tears - Robert Fripp
This is the first Fripp album to achieve something emotionally and is a
billion times better than those dull solo Frippertronics things.

3    Cathedral Oceans - John Foxx
Check this one out - a cross between Fripp's aBoT and Harold Budd.

4    Tripping Over God - David Torn
A great variety of textures and some bottom-punting guitar playing.

5    Evening Star - Fripp and Eno
Frippertronics weren't so bad when Brian lent a hand.  An Index of Metals is
possibly the first monumentally great looping piece.





From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:49:59 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 30 05:11:19 1998
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Sender: Todd Madson <crash@waste.org>
From:	Todd Madson <crash@waste.org>
To:	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Weird.  SGE Unhappy.
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Weird.  My secondary delay/looping rack is inoperative, sort of.
It's almost like its on strike.

My ART SGE (who most people hate but I like it's delay/modulation
reverb FX) seems to still work as far as its analog effects, but
all the delay/modulation/reverb effects produce this kind of sound
if you put something through it:


GGGhhHhhhSfhfffffxxxxxx....................

It's like an instant grungifier.  All of the controls still seem
to work, I tried resetting to factory defaults and that didn't
work either.  

The sound is best described as a combination of: 60 hz hum, white
noise, and and horribly distorted jiggling.  

If I use the analog effects (compressor, eq, etc) they seem to work.
I guess I should write the ART people and ask them what's happening.

I get catalogs in the mail from new and used gear companies all the
time and still see the damn things for sale for about $250 or so,
so I guess it's worth getting fixed.  

Plus, Trey Gunn has one and I can hear on his albums when he uses it.
He uses it for the same things that I do, oddly enough.  The digital
chorus is especially nice.

I still have my Vortex of course.

Maybe I should go to a local gear emporium and look at the cast off
guitars by frustrated teens who couldn't master the Eaug9 chord.




From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:50:02 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 30 06:33:22 1998
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From: Tom Lambrecht <hideo@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: funky vintage boxes.. 
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Old Ross AC powered flanger pedal--flange isn't as extreme as my Boss, but
the tone is really nice

also have been playing with a Boss LMB-3 (bass
enhancer--compressor-limiter)--not vintage, but kind of a quick and dirty
soltution to cleaning up muddy didgeridoo and bass without resorting to  . .
. THE RACK

and of course the RDS 8000 wonderbox--it slices, it dices, it slaps back . . . .

thanks for sharing,

Tom

" . . . thin . . CRUMMY . .disharmonic . . .NOISE . . . . . DAOOOOOOOHHH!"




At 01:27 PM 1/29/98 -0800, you wrote:
>At 9:10 PM 1/28/98, CORROSIVE@aol.com wrote:
>>i know this is slightly off-topic, but...I almost always use funky old stomp
>>boxes when loooping with the Plex & Jamman, and thought it would be
>>interesting to hear other peoples setups or fave processors for looping. O
>
>I have 2 current faves, an original Electro-Harmonix Memory Man analog
>delay, and the DOD Gonkulator distortion/ring modulator. The MM is a great
>source of sounds on its own, by twiddling with the delay and feedback
>knobs, and has a very seasick-sounding chorus mode. The Gonkulator is a
>pretty lousy ring modulator, it only gives you a fixed 500hz modulating
>frequency, no external input, and it emits a constant 500hz buzz when it's
>engaged, whether there's any input signal or not, but, still, it's great
>for thin, crummy disharmonic noise. And we all love that, don't we?
>
>________________________________________________________
>Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org  : www.peak.org/~improv/
>
>"...there will come a day when you won't have to use
>gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in
>your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper
>type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em
>together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em
>together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire."
>                                            -Sun Ra
>________________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
Tom Lambrecht  hideo@concentric.net



From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:50:29 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 30 10:04:42 1998
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From: Texture444@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:25:43 EST
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am i missing a piece of yer puzzle, here? or:
why dontcha just patch the looper input on a pre-fader fx send, so's ya can
selectively send channel signals to it?
in the case of stereo channels being sent, you could:
	a) use yer ganged stereo channels, ifya have 'em (w/single-control sends for
stereo),
	2) send only one side of the stereo pic, asyer gonna be mucking all kindsa
phase to/inside yer mono looper, anyhow.....
	*) make a physical bridge tween 2 of yer adjacent channel sends, so whenya
move one, ya moves de udder.
but:
did i understood yer question correctly?
dt


From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:54:33 1998
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Subject: re: 5 loopin' choices
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On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 03:33:03 -0500 (EST) CORROSIVE@aol.com writes:
>Ok, cool- now that were being gear indulgent, how about everybody 
>listing
>their top 5 loop oriented desert island discs...>


              great idea !
..."discs"... can i change that to "works"?

1.  music of the pygmies of Central Africa 
                       (especially "choir yodels")  
2.  Steve Reich's work 
             (Piano Phase being the most seraphic)  
3.  Ingram Marshall  - Hidden Voices  
4.  Maurice Ravel  - Bolero  
5.  the choir of my "plex"ed voice  
           (i wasn't a narcist before the plex)  

Also, any of you has a copy of the first "loopers CD"?  

smiles !  (Corynne, can i use it, pleeeease! )  

Paparuda 

_____________________________________________________________________
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From ???@??? Mon Feb 02 09:29:56 1998
>From kflint  Mon Feb  2 07:58:05 1998
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From: "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@primenet.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Different EBows was Re: Another NAMM Report
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:53:13 -0800
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From: Tom Lambrecht <hideo@concentric.net>

>How about an E-Bow or clone that actually works on bass ???


It's interesting given all this chatter - when I exchanged a few emails over
a year ago with the folks at E-Bow, they said that a unit that works on bass
is their Highest Request, the second place going to a multiple-string unit.
Alas.

Stephen Goodman
http://www.earthlight.net/Studios



From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:54:37 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:05:17 -0500
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James Brown-Star Time
Public Enemy-Fear of a Black Planet
Golden Rain: Balinese Gamelan Music/Ketjak: the Ramayana 
Monkey Chant
Jaco Pastorius-Honestly
Elliot Sharp (w/ Mike Watt & George Hurley)-Bootstrappers 

-- 
Jeff Schwartz
jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu
http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html


From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:54:57 1998
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From: "Scott Bullerwell" <tanelorn@dimensional.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Re: funky vintage boxes..
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:46:33 -0700
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gregor wrote:

> i've been wondering about Parker fly's (flies?) for a while... i have a
bunch
> o vintage guitars, but also have a Steinberger i use when precision is an
> issue..but the lack of a headstock buggs me too much to use it live,
hence
> the Parker interest.

I like the overall feel and playability of Parker's Fly.  However, I found
the piezo pickups made the entire instrument extremely microphonic and
sensitive to handling noise, esp. the noise my admittedly ham-fisted
handling of the vibrato arm generates.  Also, the piezos tended to squeal
at modest volumes.  Apart from that: it's very lightweight, has a nicely
resonant tone (with the piezos blended into the mag pickups), and stays in
tune like crazy.  In that respect it's comparable to the Carvin Holdsworth
(which would make a strong man cry, it's so sweet).

Scott Bullerwell
Boulder, Colorado, USA
tanelorn@dimensional.com 




From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:55:28 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 30 16:39:14 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:55:26 -0500
From: buzzard@world.std.com (Sean T Barrett)
Message-Id: <199801301655.AA16609@world.std.com>
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
Subject: Re:  Re[2]: Selling stuff over the internet
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[buying used through the mail]
>Never have I had a bad piece of gear.

Obviously this is anecdotal.  Some people
won't get burned and some people will.

I appear to have gotten burned with my
Vortex.  It's possible that this problem
has only recently developed, but I'm quite
sure I'd never bothered trying this before.

I finally (four months after buying it!)
decided to give its morphing capabilities
a work out--until now I just morphed between
existing patches.  (And mostly I didn't
morph at all because I use it as a post-loop
processor.)

So I was going to morph between a patch
and "itself" (a variant of itself), so I
copied the patch from an A register to
a B register.

Lo and behold, I have discovered that this
Vortex flakes out on exactly this operation
(goodness knows this doesn't make any sense
as either a hardware problem or a software
problem, as far as I can see).  If a patch
is copied from A to B, it comes out entirely
messed up (and non-musical) in B--generally
either extremely muted and in (apparent) mono,
or loud and horribly (digitally?) clipped,
generally in a different way in L & R channels,
or it self-oscillates in some way producing
very loud randomly squiggling unmusical noise.
Sometimes, switching away to another patch and
then back changes the mode of the behavior.
Powering the Vortex down and back up doesn't
make any difference.

Copying from B to A does not exhibit this problem,
I believe.  I'm not sure how exhaustive my
testing was at the time.  Hmm, I'm not even
sure I ever copied from one B to another B.

Anyway, obviously, for Vortex and Jamman
you've got to buy used.  Caveat emptor, I
suppose.

Sean Barrett


From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:50:26 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 30 09:56:59 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:27:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Monkici@aol.com
Message-ID: <980130122757_975142935@mrin52>
To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com
Subject: jamman update chips?
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could someone please e-mail me directly the phone/address for inexpensive
upgrade memory for lex jamMan.  any help is greatly appreciated...
rich
513 861 1687


From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:55:43 1998
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From: "Scott Bullerwell" <tanelorn@dimensional.com>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Re: Signal Path Necromancy
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:15:43 -0700
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Doktor Dave said:

> am i missing a piece of yer puzzle, here? or:
> why dontcha just patch the looper input on a pre-fader fx send, so's ya
can
> selectively send channel signals to it?

Hmm... that IS pretty simple and elegant.  In fact, I had it set up that
way initially and now I can't remember why I changed it.  FX send to looper
in, looper out to vacant channel on the mixer, then bring up the FX level
on that channel.  All I gotta do is bring up the master send level on the
FX send and the return level on the channels in question.  That indeed
sends dry signal to the looper which solves the puzzle.  

Thank you, kind sir.

Okay, here's another puzzle:  What the hell was I thinking?

Scott Bullerwell
tanelorn@dimensional.com
Boulder, Colorado, USA



From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:54:47 1998
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From: Nick Ring <nick@simons-rock.edu>
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On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 Monkici@aol.com wrote:
> could someone please e-mail me directly the phone/address for inexpensive
> upgrade memory for lex jamMan.  any help is greatly appreciated...


rich, I don't have a jamman, but I saved this info in case I ever got one.
I don't know what the latest is, but:

This might be old news, but I just bought the 32 second upgrade for my
JamMan
 at a place called L.A. Trade (800-433-3726) for a measly $44. My friend
paid
 over $100 for his 2 years ago.


	that was dated in october.  Hope it helps.

					-nick



From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:55:42 1998
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 <2148EC143F29D1118BE000805FC13CD014CC08@migarexch01.maritz.com>
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:30:19 -0400
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Curtis Bahn <bahnc2@rpi.edu>
Subject: RE: time machines/electro harmonix!
Resent-Message-ID: <"9DI9HB.A.ZiB.Kmn00"@ferret>
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I can scan the EH16 manual if someone wants it or wants to post it.
crb

>P.S. I've heard that EH is going to reissue the 16-second, but when?
>Does anybody have any info on this?
>
>steuart
>
>> ----------
>> From: 	Liebig, Steuart A.
>> Sent: 	Thursday, January 29, 1998 9:14 AM
>> To: 	Liebig, Steuart A.; 'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'
>> Subject: 	RE: time machines/electro harmonix!
>>
>> I second the request for  an EH 16-second delay manual. There's a guy
>> who sells copies for $1.50 a page, but that seems a little high . . .
>>
>> steuart
>>
>> 	----------
>> 	From: 	CORROSIVE@aol.com
>> 	Reply To: 	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
>> 	Sent: 	Thursday, January 29, 1998 4:17 AM
>> 	To: 	LiebigSA@maritz.com
>> 	Subject: 	time machines/electro harmonix!
>>
>> 	hey, I just found my manual for the RDS-8000...spose i could
>> scan it if
>> 	anybody cares. I also have one for the EH super replay- anybody
>> out there
>> 	have the EH 16 sec dig delay manual scanned?? that would be cool
>> to check out
>> 	   >>>>gregor
>>
>>





From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:55:13 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 30 14:56:21 1998
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From: PMimlitsch@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:41:35 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, stickwire-l@netcom.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Subject: Stick/Loop Gig
Content-type: text/plain
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Sat. Jan. 31st 8:00pm w/"Adelante" at A.J. Muggas Uncommon Grounds, S. Park
St., Merchantville, New Jersey (609) 317-0199.  Adelante is: J.Jody Janetta
(Percussion/Treated Voice), Paul Mimlitsch (Chapman Stick¨/Loops), Michael
Robbins (Violin/Viola).
<<http://199.34.54.131/newcommunity/jazz/adelante.htm>>




From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:55:52 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:46:21 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Doug Wyatt <doug@sonosphere.com>
Subject: Re: Stick/Loop Gig
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At 17:41 -0500 1/30/98, PMimlitsch@aol.com wrote:
> Sat. Jan. 31st 8:00pm w/"Adelante" at A.J. Muggas Uncommon Grounds, S. Park
> St., Merchantville, New Jersey (609) 317-0199.  Adelante is: J.Jody Janetta
> (Percussion/Treated Voice), Paul Mimlitsch (Chapman Stick¨/Loops), Michael
> Robbins (Violin/Viola).
> <<http://199.34.54.131/newcommunity/jazz/adelante.htm>>

Hi ... just thought I'd hop in here to note that there should be an ell
(adelante.html) on the end of that URL.  Have a good gig!

Doug


---
Doug Wyatt                     Sonosphere - music and music software
doug@sonosphere.com            http://www.sonosphere.com/




From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:55:27 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 30 16:34:31 1998
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From: "Liebig, Steuart A." <LiebigSA@Maritz.com>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: RE: Re: funky vintage boxes..
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:12:59 -0600
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I use 6-string basses with a piezo film pickup under each bridge. This
is precisely to GET body resonances/squeals, etc. In addition to the
already mentioned body resonance, you can play the body like a drum or
play the strings behind the bridge or behind the nut (particularly
effective when used with fuzz). This can lead to some really incredible
industrial sounding loops or other mayhem.

So . . . piezos are recommended.

steuart

> ----------
> From: 	Scott Bullerwell
> Reply To: 	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> Sent: 	Friday, January 30, 1998 1:46 PM
> To: 	LiebigSA@maritz.com
> Subject: 	Re: Re: funky vintage boxes..
> 
> gregor wrote:
> 
> > i've been wondering about Parker fly's (flies?) for a while... i
> have a
> bunch
> > o vintage guitars, but also have a Steinberger i use when precision
> is an
> > issue..but the lack of a headstock buggs me too much to use it live,
> hence
> > the Parker interest.
> 
> I like the overall feel and playability of Parker's Fly.  However, I
> found
> the piezo pickups made the entire instrument extremely microphonic and
> sensitive to handling noise, esp. the noise my admittedly ham-fisted
> handling of the vibrato arm generates.  Also, the piezos tended to
> squeal
> at modest volumes.  Apart from that: it's very lightweight, has a
> nicely
> resonant tone (with the piezos blended into the mag pickups), and
> stays in
> tune like crazy.  In that respect it's comparable to the Carvin
> Holdsworth
> (which would make a strong man cry, it's so sweet).
> 
> Scott Bullerwell
> Boulder, Colorado, USA
> tanelorn@dimensional.com 
> 
> 
> 


From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:56:09 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:26:41 -0500 (EST)
From: VanEyck <vaneyck@interlog.com>
To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
cc: "Liebig, Steuart A." <LiebigSA@Maritz.com>
Subject: RE: time machines/electro harmonix!
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	I have two versions of the manual I could copy but I cannot scan
them.  I will mail them to whomever could put them on the page.

	Best,

	TREVOR.
	VanEyck@interlog.com

On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, Liebig, Steuart A. wrote:

> I second the request for  an EH 16-second delay manual. There's a guy
> who sells copies for $1.50 a page, but that seems a little high . . .
> 
> steuart
> 
> > ----------
> > From: 	CORROSIVE@aol.com
> > Reply To: 	Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
> > Sent: 	Thursday, January 29, 1998 4:17 AM
> > To: 	LiebigSA@maritz.com
> > Subject: 	time machines/electro harmonix!
> > 
> > hey, I just found my manual for the RDS-8000...spose i could scan it
> > if
> > anybody cares. I also have one for the EH super replay- anybody out
> > there
> > have the EH 16 sec dig delay manual scanned?? that would be cool to
> > check out
> >    >>>>gregor
> > 
> 
> 



From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:55:52 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 30 18:39:00 1998
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Peter Thompson wrote:

> 1    Gone to Earth (Instrumental) - David Sylvian
> Why does no-one ever mention this album?  It is truly the most beautiful
> looping album ever made, yet is roundly ignored, even by people who should
> know better.


Word up, brother.
Dave


From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:55:54 1998
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Random set-up questions:

I have:
Guitar w/ gk 2a -> gr-30 -> synth out in stereo to mixer
							guitar send to whammy, wah then to PSA 1
PSA stereo out to vortex
Vortex stereo out to mixer

2 questions.

1. The vortex is stereo and I can't sacrifice both Aux sends on the
mixer, the result is the varying level of the PSA (from patch to patch)
is sometimes too high for the vortex and it distorts, and I turn it down
and then up and then down...
If you were me, where would you put your Vortex?

2. I want to add a volume pedal to the guitar path.
If you were me, where would you put it? and would it be stereo or mono.


Thanks as always,
Dave


From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:55:56 1998
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At 11:14 AM 1/29/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I second the request for  an EH 16-second delay manual. There's a guy
>who sells copies for $1.50 a page, but that seems a little high . . .
>
>steuart
>

LITTLE HIGH???????--that kind of nosebleed drug pusher mentality is what
gives used equipment dealers the same street cred as kiddie pornographers
and career politicians


>P.S. I've heard that EH is going to reissue the 16-second, but when?
>Does anybody have any info on this?
>
>steuart
>

sorry for those who have already heard this litany but the last word I got
from EH/Sovtek was that both the Micro Synth and 16 sec delay would come out
in '98 in that order

funny, I was just talking to a gear junkie in WI who I bought my Vortex
from--the Micro Synth was the most expensive pedal he ever bought at about
$350 (even more than the PDS 8000 (pedal version of the RDS) that we were
unknowingly engaged in a bidding war over on Rogue Music's auction site . .
.speaking of vintage crack dealers . . . 

dronedornedronedroendronronronednednednednednedned on~~~~~~Tom



Tom Lambrecht  hideo@concentric.net



From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:56:12 1998
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From: Tom Lambrecht <hideo@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: jamman 32-sec upgrade chips
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Check Visionsoft in Carmel, CA at   http://www.visionsoft.com

I lost their toll-free (on hte Web site), but tech # is 408.626.2633

4 (four)  14PGPZ7      1x4 70 nS ZIP @ 7.95 totalled $38.80 (inc. $7
freight--a leeettle high for 6 ounces of IC's but at that price, I didn't
even whine)

Just ask for Jamman chips--they'll know exactly what you need

Got this from someone in Loopers--bless you

Tom


At 03:30 PM 1/30/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 Monkici@aol.com wrote:
>> could someone please e-mail me directly the phone/address for inexpensive
>> upgrade memory for lex jamMan.  any help is greatly appreciated...
>
>
>rich, I don't have a jamman, but I saved this info in case I ever got one.
>I don't know what the latest is, but:
>
>This might be old news, but I just bought the 32 second upgrade for my
>JamMan
> at a place called L.A. Trade (800-433-3726) for a measly $44. My friend
>paid
> over $100 for his 2 years ago.
>
>
>	that was dated in october.  Hope it helps.
>
>					-nick
>
>
>
>
Tom Lambrecht  hideo@concentric.net



From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:55:59 1998
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:36:26 EST
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Hi loopy folks,
You need to check out metasynth, Its a cool computer based mega synthesizer
and is as unique as "rebirth" and does some great loops, but they are
synthetic.  it samples too.
Theres a free demo at www.uisoftware.com.
its so cool I had to tell someone
kemmc@aol.com


From ???@??? Tue Feb 03 00:15:09 1998
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Alhambra, CA here - just south of Pasadena.

Stephen Goodman  * It's... The Loop Of The Week!
EarthLight Studios    * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios



From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:56:02 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 30 19:56:28 1998
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From: Tom Lambrecht <hideo@concentric.net>
Subject: RE: EH/Time machines on Loopers site?
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CRB:

I don't know if Kim is prepared to add your EH scans to the Loopers Web
site, but they sure would look good there . . .

as would the RDS 8000 manual for those not fortunate enough to have one


by the way, still waiting for the immense flow of Time Machine tips to start
streaming in for editing and inclusion on the Web site--remember, it has the
official blessing of the KimMeister. Also anyone know how to do this HTML
thing who wants to get the Time Machine pge cranking--(my dark secret--I
can't even do the MIDI thing much less the HTML hting--hell, I can't even
keep my "t"s and "h"s straight when I get excited (and I'm an excitable boy)

Tom



At 06:30 PM 1/30/98 -0400, you wrote:
>I can scan the EH16 manual if someone wants it or wants to post it.
>crb


>>>At 3:51 PM -0500 1/20/98, Tom Lambrecht wrote:
>>Kim:
>>
>>I'm, assuming that if some misguided soul                CENSORED
 compiling various boring
>>technical minutiae                          DELETED
 into a FAQ that less than a handful of people will ever
>>see                               RESRICTED
>>
>>that you would turn the text file into a finished Loopers Web page complete
>>with                         TOP SECRET
 on a vintage
>>RDS 8000 with Real-Time Audio and Puddling Video and Java and . . . .
>>
>>Ahem . . well if that is the case, (and if and only the rest of the Deviate
>>League of Time Machinists contribute to the project), I'd have a go . 

                                              SNIP
>ok, you're on. Although, don't expect me to be doing all that java and
>video stuff. I don't have time to do it or even learn how! The most I ever
>figured out was how to make something into a basic web page, and for that I
>just use the free html composer that comes with netscape. I'd encourage you
>to go ahead and do that much, because it's easy and if you wait for me to
>do it, it'll take forever. Or partner up with another time-machine fanatic
>to help you out.
>
>but hey, thanks for offering to pitch in! I'll ask one of my numerous
>supermodel friends to pay you a visit.
>
>kim
>
>
>>>>
>>>> hey, if someone wants to scan the manual, I'd be happy to put it on the
>>>> website.
>>>>
>>>> Also, lots of great info has been posted about this box. It would be great
>>>> if someone could complile it all into a FAQ for the Time Machine page. That
>>>> poor lonely page sure could use someone to take care of it!
>>>>
>>>> Just think of the fame and self promotion it would gain you... Looper's
>>>> Delight gets over 3000 hits a week. All those people looking at YOUR
>>>> handywork....imagine: the job offers come streaming in....overflowing bank
>>>> accounts....new home studio toys....parties with rock stars and super
>>>> models....it could all be yours, just for one measly web page.....
>>>>
>>>> kim
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>>> Kim Flint                   | Looper's Delight
>>>> kflint@annihilist.com       | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html
>>>> http://www.annihilist.com/  | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com
>>>
>>>
Tom Lambrecht  hideo@concentric.net



From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:56:10 1998
>From kflint  Fri Jan 30 21:36:45 1998
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Loopish Ones-

Just thought I'd give a semi-mid show hello from L.A. Kim was kind enough
to stop by the both and give me my first professional demo of the EDP. I am
more impressed with it and y'all than ever. Saturday at 1:00 the Loopers
Delight Luncheon commences at the Oberheim booth. I am anxious to see who
shows up. Anyone with a NAMM badge and a clue who wants to take a stab at
demo-ing the EDP in our booth is welcome to come see me and we'll turn the
klieg on ya. BTW, thanks to all of you who helped make the EDP such a
success. We really would not be here without you. I'll say more when I have
more to say... 

Oh, yeah. I met Brian Kehew of The Moog Cookbook. He is wise in the ways of
science. See him at Black Market Music for all your funky gadget needs. And
check out the Cookbook's new release "Ye Olde Space Band". I laughed. I
cried.I grooved. I coveted my neighbor's OB-8.

Tom





From ???@??? Tue Feb 03 10:02:28 1998
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Reply-To: "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@earthlight.net>
From: "Stephen P. Goodman" <sgoodman@earthlight.net>
To: <Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com>
Subject: Frippery vs. Bitchery
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 06:44:13 -0800
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You know, at no point in this strangely looping discussion has anyone talked
about the idea that - wonder of wonders! - perhaps RF LIKES what he's doing
right now...!

I believe we've all been there, hm?  But if you're looking for blazingly
fast technique guitar, go listen to one of the fellows from the G3 tour.
Amongst the things I get out of listening to music (and yes!  Fripp's work
too), "being impressed" is not high on my list of expectations before the
performance.

Just listen to it, and if you don't like it, listen to something else.  I
just think this bitching about his work is pointless unless someone can come
up with an alternative guitarist/style/etc that one likes Better.  Or
perhaps it's your own work you like better, just say so.

Who ever said it was supposed to be exciting ALL the time anyway?  Or did
yez think it was a marketing ploy when Fripp said (back in the early 80s,
pre-KC2) that at times he made an effort to be as boring as humanly
possible?

I'd have kept my keyboard untouched on this one, if it had not denigrated
into this whiningly annoying bit.  It smacks a bit of the Satriani-heads who
were also disappointed in Soundscape works.  Oh brother, whatta buncha
consumers THEY are. :)

Stephen Goodman  * It's... The Loop Of The Week!
EarthLight Studios    * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios

>>..whatever... i agree - it's some of fripp's most..... non exciting stuff.
>>but , yes, i respect the fact - that was what he was going for.. but on
the
>>2 soundsscape CDs i have , plus the G3 show, it never seemed to take off,
>>beyond simplistic, basic synth patches thru cool stereo FX. not as
>>adventurous as he usually is, by far!
>>
>>andre'
>>
>>
>
>This is a good point.  Fripp does rely too much on synth patches.  Now that
>can sometimes work very effectively such as on A Blessing of Tears, but
more
>often than not it just gets cloying.  I would like to see him use the
>natural sound of the guitar more - essentially i would like him to sound
>like a guitarist, rather than a keyboard player.
>
>Pete
>
>
>



From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:56:36 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 31 08:53:41 1998
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Subject: TEST 31 Jan
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TEST 31 Jan

Could it be that I am back on at last?




From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:56:48 1998
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yes you are back on


From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:56:57 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 31 15:47:19 1998
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 15:57:01 -0700
From: William Moyer <vargo2muse@earthlink.net>
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Hey  you insider  NAMM goers,  What's the news?  I'm especially
wondering if the Boomerang folks are there, and if they've finished the
new software chip? Are there any new choices for us loopy folks?  Sorry
, if I sound over anxious, but I am .
Thanks, Bill



From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:56:59 1998
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>Hey  you insider  NAMM goers,  What's the news?  I'm especially
>wondering if the Boomerang folks are there, and if they've finished the
>new software chip? Are there any new choices for us loopy folks?  Sorry
>, if I sound over anxious, but I am .
>Thanks, Bill


Well, I'm not at NAMM, but noticed DOD (of all people) announced a 24
second, approx. $300 rack sampler, the Dimension 12.  Numerous knobs, pads
for triggering either four 6 second samples or two 12 second samples.
Reverse playback and lfo control of playback speed, looping, retriggering
for stuttering fx, etc. Looks interesting for the Loopers Delight crowdÉ

Check out Harmony Central.

Mark




From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:57:00 1998
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Of possible interest to looping guitarists (mostly):
I was lucky enough to spend Thursday at NAMM, and spotted these cool new toys:
Lexicon is going for guitarists in a big way, with their ãCustom Shopä,
complete with Harley-Davidson-esque Logo (everyone KNOWS what macho bruisers
we guitarists are, right?), and the input (endorsement?) of Eddie Kramer, who
was wandering around the booth as I listened. The current product line
includes:
1. A revamped version of the MPX -1, called the MPX G2, which will reportedly
do everything the -1 will, but has a new analog section for distortion/preamp
stuff and classic stomp box emulations (they list Uni-Vibe, Cry Baby, Dyna
Comp, Vox...), an effects loop so you can position your own preamp (or
whatever) after some effects and before others, front-panel EQ knobs and
headphone jack,  intelligent pitch shifting, AND....
20 sec. of full bandwidth delay (stereo I think). Will be about $200 more than
the MPX and is coming 2nd quarter 98---their R1 Remote Foot switch will be
updated to handle it, and will include a readout for the tuner thatâs in the
G2. Oh, it doesnât seem to have the digital I/O--too bad!
2. The Signature 284 All tube Class A Stereo Guitar Amplifier, optimized for
recording and direct use, with about 6 watts of power and compensated
recording outs that come after the power section and include passive
loading--2-space rack mount, single channel with a boost switch and four tone
knobs. This thing was designed by John McIntyre, who used to write for Guitar
Player and is based on a similar piece he designed that the Lace-Sensor folks
were offering last year. It too has an effects loop (tube driven stereo) and
slave outs. I heard it played both thru cabinets and direct thru monitors and
it was very sweet...the demonstrator could really do the SRV thing and it
sounded almost exactly the same when he switched from cab to monitors. Should
be about $999, and in stores in April.
3. Theyâre coming out with cabs, too--I saw a little stereo thing that
probably had 2 tens in it...
Theyâre also offering a low-end dual stereo multifx called the MPX100 with
Vortex-like selection knobs, MIDI, digital outs, pitch shifting, reverb, and
5.7 sec of delay.
When asked about looping, my contact claimed that theyâd been kicking
themselves over dropping the Jamman, since they started getting big orders
shortly thereafter, and would ãdefinitelyä be back in the looping game ãsoon.ä

Electro-Harmonix guy told me that the 16-sec delay was still in the works, and
would be ãexactly the same...ä

DOD guy told me that their 98 pedal with 8-sec. delays was ãdelayed...but
coming!ä

tc electronicâs FireworX multifx looked extremely powerful, like a second-gen
G-Force that even includes a MIDI-addressable mono synth, has programmable
ãinsertä capabilities--like an fx loop using either the digital or analog i/o
that youâre not already using, as far as I can figure--programmable feedback
loops, modulatable modulators (including a kind of mini sequencer called
ãfreeformä), and you can divide up the dsp horsepower any way you want, using
multiple blocks of any algorithms that use less than 50% of the resources. The
front-panel block buttons include Dynamic, Filters, Formant, Distort, Vocode,
Synth, Pitch, Chorus, Delay, Reverb, Pan, and EQ...and there are ring mod,
noise, and reverse delay options, altho the delay times didnât appear to be
any longer than on the G-Force (well under 2 sec).

Other toys: Danelectro is back making guitars...copies of the originals that
will list for $299...no Long Horns or sitars,...yet! Plus they have a vintage
delay pedal (and a tuner)...

The New E-Bow has an octave-up switch...

Digitechâs Space Station pedal sounds good doing its reverse-delay thing, and
ring modulating...

Rocktron has  a new floor version of their Taboo preamp/fx...the Taboo
Artist...

Mesa Boogie has a new 1-space non-MIDI preamp, a 3-channel job with stereo
recording outs, fx loop, footswitch and graphic EQ thatâll be $699...they call
it the Formula Preamp.

Roland had some neat stuff (a 24-bit 8-in, 16-out version of the VS-880 with a
bigger screen, a super phrase sampler that caches directly to a zip drive for
about 26 minutes of stereo sampling and used 2 simultaneous Dimension Beam
controllers to modulate fx or control audio....), but nothing new on the
guitar front. The VG-8 is still in the catalog, tho...

If youâve got a Mac and like to make sounds with it, MetaSynth is a little
wonder boy!
Eric Wenger, the inventor of it (and Bryce...jeez!), gave me about a 20-min
demo that was sheer amazement...cross convolving audio morphs, granular
synthesis, paint-brush filter creation, all the typical fx and sound design
algos, works with imported audio or generates its own sounds using up to 400
oscillators (on a 200Mhz Mac)....$250.

Believe me, it was PAINful to have to leave the show before I saw more!
david




From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:57:03 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 31 17:44:01 1998
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 20:40:43 EST
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
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sorry about the format of that post...I just pasted it in from Simple Text;
dunno why it got so screwed up..here it is again:


I was lucky enough to spend Thursday at NAMM, and spotted these cool new toys:
Lexicon is going for guitarists in a big way, with their ãCustom Shopä,
complete with Harley-Davidson-esque Logo (everyone KNOWS what macho bruisers
we guitarists are, right?), and the input (endorsement?) of Eddie Kramer, who
was wandering around the booth as I listened. The current product line
includes:
1. A revamped version of the MPX -1, called the MPX G2, which will reportedly
do everything the -1 will, but has a new analog section for distortion/preamp
stuff and classic stomp box emulations (they list Uni-Vibe, Cry Baby, Dyna
Comp, Vox...), an effects loop so you can position your own preamp (or
whatever) after some effects and before others, front-panel EQ knobs and
headphone jack,  intelligent pitch shifting, AND....
20 sec. of full bandwidth delay (stereo I think). Will be about $200 more than
the MPX and is coming 2nd quarter 98---their R1 Remote Foot switch will be
updated to handle it, and will include a readout for the tuner thatâs in the
G2. Oh, it doesnât seem to have the digital I/O--too bad!
2. The Signature 284 All tube Class A Stereo Guitar Amplifier, optimized for
recording and direct use, with about 6 watts of power and compensated
recording outs that come after the power section and include passive
loading--2-space rack mount, single channel with a boost switch and four tone
knobs. This thing was designed by John McIntyre, who used to write for Guitar
Player and is based on a similar piece he designed that the Lace-Sensor folks
were offering last year. It too has an effects loop (tube driven stereo) and
slave outs. I heard it played both thru cabinets and direct thru monitors and
it was very sweet...the demonstrator could really do the SRV thing and it
sounded almost exactly the same when he switched from cab to monitors. Should
be about $999, and in stores in April.
3. Theyâre coming out with cabs, too--I saw a little stereo thing that
probably had 2 tens in it...
Theyâre also offering a low-end dual stereo multifx called the MPX100 with
Vortex-like selection knobs, MIDI, digital outs, pitch shifting, reverb, and
5.7 sec of delay.
When asked about looping, my contact claimed that theyâd been kicking
themselves over dropping the Jamman, since they started getting big orders
shortly thereafter, and would ãdefinitelyä be back in the looping game ãsoon.ä

Electro-Harmonix guy told me that the 16-sec delay was still in the works, and
would be ãexactly the same...ä

DOD guy told me that their 98 pedal with 8-sec. delays was ãdelayed...but
coming!ä

tc electronicâs FireworX multifx looked extremely powerful, like a second-gen
G-Force that even includes a mono synth, has programmable ãinsertä
capabilities--like an fx loop using either the digital or analog i/o that
youâre not already using, as far as I can figure--programmable feedback loops,
modulatable modulators (including a kind of mini sequencer called ãfreeformä),
and you can divide up the dsp resources anyway you want, using multiple blocks
of any algorithms that use less than 50% of the resources. The front-panel
block buttons include Dynamic, Filters, Formant, Distort, Vocode, Synth,
Pitch, Chorus, Delay, Reverb, Pan, and EQ...and there are ring mod, noise, and
reverse delay options, altho the delay times didnât appear to be any longer
than on the G-Force.

Other toys: Danelectro is back making guitars...copies of the originals that
will list for $299...no Long Horns or sitars,...yet! Plus they have a vintage
delay pedal (and a tuner)...

The New E-Bow has an octave-up switch...

Digitechâs Space Station pedal sounds good doing its reverse-delay thing, and
ring modulating...

Rocktron has  a new floor version of their Taboo preamp/fx...the Taboo
Artist...

Mesa Boogie has a new 1-space non-MIDI preamp, a 3-channel job with stereo
recording outs, fx loop, footswitch and graphic EQ thatâll be $699...they call
it the Formula Preamp.

Roland had some neat stuff (a 24-bit 8-in, 16-out version of the VS-880 with a
bigger screen and two fx-board slots-$3000+, a super phrase sampler that
caches directly to a ip drive for about 26 minutes of stereo sampling, and
used 2 simultaneous Dimension Beam controllers to modulate fx or control
audio-$1600....), but nothing new on the guitar front. The VG-8 is still in
the catalog, tho...

If youâve got a Mac and like to make sounds with it, MetaSynth is a little
wonder boy!
Eric Wenger, the inventor of it (and Bryce...jeez!), gave me about a 20-min
demo of it that was sheer amazement...cross convolving audio morphs, granular
synthesis, paint-brush filter creation, all the typical fx and sound design
algos, works with imported audio or generates its own sounds using up to 400
oscillators (on a 200Mhz Mac)....$250.

Believe me, it was PAINful to have to leave before I saw more!
david




From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:57:07 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 31 18:19:55 1998
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 21:16:05 -0500
To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com
From: Reginald Hunt <rphunt@tiac.net>
Subject: Re: funky vintage boxes..
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Regarding looping setups, mine doesn't really utilize any "vintage" equipment.

I suppose the current inventory of my setup is:

Lexicon Jamman (8 secs)
Digitech RDS8000 (8 secs of course)
Digitech RP-10 pedalboard
Alesis Midiverb 4
DBX 266
Carvin SM162 mixer
Roland GR-1
Ibanez 7 string with GK-2A
Yamaha MU80
Yamaha P-50

I just put the RDS8000 back in the rack; using it in conjunction with the
JamMan gets pretty bizarre.

My web site has a diagram of the setup I used for the music that I posted
there and in the Looper's Delight Tips & Tricks page:

www.tiac.net/users/rphunt

BTW, does anyone remember the Ibanez DM-1100 delay unit?

Reg



From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:57:08 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 31 18:52:43 1998
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From: CORROSIVE@aol.com
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Subject: funky vintage boxes..
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Yeah Reg!  I agree that it's psychotronic to use a RDS-8000 in front of a
jamman or plex & reloop the pitch shifted original..getting 'em in tune can
be a bitch, but can get outta control in a very cool way. Sometimes I'll run
the RDS through a wammy pedal first to add octaves above or
below..aaaaaaaah!!


From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:57:16 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 31 20:23:22 1998
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Subject: Re: funky vintage boxes..
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Hmmmm...

Actually, I use my whammy pedal before my RDS, which then goes to my JM.
That way I sweep a note, then let the RDS's LFO slowly chew on it. Also, the
delay time knob on the RDS lets me create some very deep bass notes I can't
get any other way. All the noises this combo makes are so cool, I don't
worry about being in tune.

But, I gotta try putting the RDS before the pedalboard. That sounds twisted.

Makes me think that if I get stereo echoplexes, I'm going to have to find
another RDS as well. Oh God.

BTW, it appears that the Dimension 12 also has an LFO. Has anyone tried this
unit out yet?

Reg




At 09:48 PM 1/31/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Yeah Reg!  I agree that it's psychotronic to use a RDS-8000 in front of a
>jamman or plex & reloop the pitch shifted original..getting 'em in tune can
>be a bitch, but can get outta control in a very cool way. Sometimes I'll run
>the RDS through a wammy pedal first to add octaves above or
>below..aaaaaaaah!!



From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:57:20 1998
>From kflint  Sat Jan 31 21:18:31 1998
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well...I give up. Sorry about the nospaces and noreturns--they USED to be
there!
dpc


From ???@??? Sun Feb 01 21:57:21 1998
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In a message dated 1/31/98 8:43:08 PM, I wrote:

>
>Roland had some neat stuff (a 24-bit 8-in, 16-out version of the VS-880 with
a
>bigger screen and two fx-board slots-$3000+, a super phrase sampler that
>caches directly to a  ip drive for about 26 minutes of stereo sampling, and
>used 2 simultaneous Dimension Beam controllers to modulate fx or control
>audio-$1600....),
That's a ZIP drive, and it's 64 min....


