From ???@??? Fri Nov 01 09:58:42 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 1 08:33:54 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJMXX-00014T-00; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 08:33:51 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 09:32:28 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: MIDI Loops Resent-Message-ID: <"1ZUp0.A.zy.YWiey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/920 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 08:33:51 -0800 X-UIDL: 80b2eb712c4ad09cc09380cee107c690 Paolo wrote: >>I used an Opcode Max patch that had eight delay lines, each of which >>pitch-shifted to a different interval and each of which had it's own >>"seed" number to multiply with the input MIDI velocity value to produce >>a delay time. Are you having any problems with Max getting bogged down under a heavy work load? What kind of Mac are you using? A friend of mine built an 808-style interface using Max and it doesn't run too smoothly on his PowerBook 5300 (its not even usable) but it seems to work better on my 7200/120. I imagine having 8 delay lines might cause similar problems..... - chris --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:25:14 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 1 11:50:43 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJPc1-00041v-00; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 11:50:41 -0800 Message-ID: <3279FF94.32DD@interaccess.com> Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 13:48:20 +0000 From: James Coker X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: MIDI Loops & powerbooks References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"bjYgND.A.XkD.yOley"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/923 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 11:50:41 -0800 X-UIDL: f8a41a6e92181a43c8c2a689bf3d3b9e > Then Jim contributed: > >I've achieved midi looping two ways. One was to trick > >MOTU Performer into looping and doing additive recording > >on the same track at the same time, the primary problem > >was chasing note releases on playback. > > What is this problem? Do all sequencers have it? It's not the sort of thing the designers intended, so each sequencer will act differently. The looping features in MOTU are best suited for drum or pattern programming. What I wanted was multiple loops with different lengths, and I'm not sure where it was happening, but I kept loosing notes here and there. Since then I've gotten an Echoplex, and I generally use that w/ a guitar for looping. > > >The other way is to > >use Opcode MAX, with which you can do just about anything > >you could want (with midi), provided you have the time > >to build and debug it. It is very easy w/ Max to do > >midi delay lines w/ feedback. > > So there is a way to imitate the FeedBack of a delay on Max? Each > repetition gets softer? I will have to study Max more. > But in a sequencer it is not possible, is it? > One can do feedback using Max, but the "code" to do that has to manually remove notes when their volume (midi velocity) reaches zero, otherwise the delay line can end up with a large number of notes that are not played, ultimately slowing down the system. I did a good bit of Max programming last winter and found that the flexibility is remarkable, but more advanced patches can be time consuming to build. On the other hand, it is relatively easy to set up muliple lines (w/ feedback) and have envelope generators control their levels independently, transpose them on the fly, etc. > Well, for my music, I am not interested in using MIDI. It reduces > expression too much for my taste. Probably even ZIPI would have been little > intuitive. Doing midi-based looping is very different than audio looping, midi is not as expressive as having a real instrument to play, but is very flexible and interesting in other ways. Max comes with a couple of large patches that are interactive composition engines. BTW: I have a powerbook 5300, and generally have found it to be only as fast as the 60 Mhz 601 desktop Macs, as there's no L2 cache and I think the system bus is slower. I have Max 3.0, and I'm pretty sure it's not native. jim From ???@??? Fri Nov 01 09:58:40 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 1 08:12:11 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJMCX-000014-00; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 08:12:09 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:11:35 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: MIDI Loops Resent-Message-ID: <"p_ODbC.A.8EH.aAiey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/919 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 08:12:09 -0800 X-UIDL: 24db4f3a2a90fe1cedb0dd6c6919656b >> >About how looping synth via midi, Matthias asked how to do it? >> >Quite simple. My cubase has midi delay in it. I set the thing on the >> >duration I want. You can easily synced it to tempo, since it is a midi >> >delay. >> >> Oh I see, it like a digital effect for MIDI, not the sequencer itself >>you use. >> But can you control its parameters while playing so as to "freeze" a loop >> for soloing or have it fade out to renew it etc? >> Is there any option to multiply the delay time while playing? >> >> Still curious >> Matthias Paolo helps: >I used an Opcode Max patch that had eight delay lines, each of which >pitch-shifted to a different interval and each of which had it's own >"seed" number to multiply with the input MIDI velocity value to produce >a delay time. So you choose any time into which delay you want to load and can change its "seed" number and Feedback while playing and stay synced between all delay lines, if you want. Yes? The Notebook and the price of the program is a drawback for whom uses it for this only. Ofcourse you record and organized the instruments too, handy. Those little MIDI players could be capable of a little more: They could read a program from the disc and execute it while recording MIDI. (they don't do that, do they?) But, back to Paolo: >In addition, my patch would, at random, record a phrase >and play it back. I could have easily set it up to loop the recorded >phrase indefinitely. Random seams interesting. Could be done in a audio looper, too. But then again, if the machine does not know where notes start and stop, random will chop all up. We will have to analyze the sound to improve. MIDI is fascinating for this kind of creativity. Then Jim contributed: >I've achieved midi looping two ways. One was to trick >MOTU Performer into looping and doing additive recording >on the same track at the same time, the primary problem >was chasing note releases on playback. What is this problem? Do all sequencers have it? >The other way is to >use Opcode MAX, with which you can do just about anything >you could want (with midi), provided you have the time >to build and debug it. It is very easy w/ Max to do >midi delay lines w/ feedback. So there is a way to imitate the FeedBack of a delay on Max? Each repetition gets softer? I will have to study Max more. But in a sequencer it is not possible, is it? Well, for my music, I am not interested in using MIDI. It reduces expression too much for my taste. Probably even ZIPI would have been little intuitive. But: ** I think it would be great to use similar tools and codes in audio- and MIDI loops so we can play together, transfer, synchronize easily. ** Thanks Matthias From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:25:08 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 1 10:08:23 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJO0z-00066S-00; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 10:08:21 -0800 Date: 01 Nov 96 13:02:25 EST From: Teed Rockwell <74164.3703@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Aloha! Message-ID: <961101180225_74164.3703_GHQ77-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"GFYtPB.A.7fF.1ujey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/921 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 10:08:21 -0800 X-UIDL: b5209a50fbe84e7ff5f684e14ac4f69c I've enjoyed my time on looper's delight, but I'm starting graduate school, and I just don't have time to read all of these messages, and keep my music chops up. I haven't had a chance to read any of those messages labeled "CD" yet, but I am recording some material now that would be appropriate for a looper's CD. I would love to see a list devoted to just the echoplex, if there were such a thing. No elitism implied here, I just don't have the time to read about all those other cool machines. Anybody else interested? I would also like to receive the digest for awhile (with full instructions on how to unsubscribe, if that becomes necessary, which it probably will). My brother told me that some servers have a "find" command that would make it possible for me to scan a digest and only find echoplex comments. If I can make that work, I can probably keep receiving the digest, otherwise not. Also if anybody would like to contact me directly about looping questions, I would love to talk. I Just can't find time to even throw out a hundred messages a day, let alone read them. So best of luck to all loopers, and stay in touch if you like Teed Rockwell From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:25:09 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 1 10:39:21 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJOUx-00003d-00; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 10:39:19 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199611011835.KAA22679@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: MIDI Loops To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 10:35:20 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "Chris Chovit" at Nov 1, 96 09:32:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4O-S4B.A.YJH.vLkey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/922 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 10:39:19 -0800 X-UIDL: 941df2410863e0d2baa3fe33db89b2bb > Paolo wrote: > > >>I used an Opcode Max patch that had eight delay lines, each of which > >>pitch-shifted to a different interval and each of which had it's own > >>"seed" number to multiply with the input MIDI velocity value to produce > >>a delay time. > > Are you having any problems with Max getting bogged down under a heavy work > load? What kind of Mac are you using? A friend of mine built an 808-style > interface using Max and it doesn't run too smoothly on his PowerBook 5300 > (its not even usable) but it seems to work better on my 7200/120. I > imagine having 8 delay lines might cause similar problems..... > > - chris I never had processor overload problems with my setup. But I think a big reason is that the GR700 transmits only MIDI note number and MIDI velocity. Yes, that's _it_. No MIDI pitch bend. Another possible reason (don't hold me to it, I'm not 100% positive on this) is that maybe Max is still not PowerPC native. At least my copy is not. Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:25:16 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 1 12:31:56 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJQFu-0006KQ-00; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:31:54 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199611012025.MAA23408@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: MIDI Loops To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:25:53 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "Matthias Grob" at Nov 1, 96 02:11:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3pgmMB.A.1mF.Vzley"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/924 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:31:54 -0800 X-UIDL: 4777403269050a9ab3c777b41299f84e > Paolo helps: > >I used an Opcode Max patch that had eight delay lines, each of which > >pitch-shifted to a different interval and each of which had it's own > >"seed" number to multiply with the input MIDI velocity value to produce > >a delay time. > > So you choose any time into which delay you want to load and can change its > "seed" number and Feedback while playing and stay synced between all delay > lines, if you want. Yes? With my particular patch, no, but Max would let you add whatever "objects" you need to do the job. For example, a fader object to adjust the "seed" for each delay line could be connected. If you fail to find a Max object in the included object library supplied with Max to do a particular job, you can write up your own in C. Last I heard, there was a substantial repository of Max objects programmed by Max enthusiasts, but I forgot the ftp location. > The Notebook and the price of the program is a drawback for whom uses it > for this only. Ofcourse you record and organized the instruments too, > handy. What I gather from the community of interactive computer music folks is that Max is a great tool for prototyping interactive music systems. Some of them then go and program their systems in a faster language like Forth, after using Max to quickly build a prototype. The Powerbook is nice for its portability, which is a big plus for live performance. Last I heard, all five members of the computer music band The Hub had switched to Powerbooks as the computer of choice for live computer music because of the portability and the ability to run Max. > Well, for my music, I am not interested in using MIDI. It reduces > expression too much for my taste. Probably even ZIPI would have been little > intuitive. > But: > ** I think it would be great to use similar tools and codes in audio- and > MIDI loops so we can play together, transfer, synchronize easily. ** My professor is not interested in using his trombone to trigger synthesizers directly via MIDI. Rather, he is interested in using the computer as an improvisational partner which analyzes his playing and formulates a response instead of attempting to reproduce his phrases exactly (actually his program is also capable of initiating its own improvisations without any input from its human partner). So while audio looping technology has the advantage of greater sonic expression, MIDI-based interactive technology is currently more capable of real-time analysis of an incoming stream of notes from a human musician. When the two can come together it will be an exciting time indeed. Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:25:18 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 1 12:35:03 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJQIw-0006WB-00; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:35:02 -0800 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:31:25 -0500 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961101153124_134984729@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: MIDI Loops Resent-Message-ID: <"bDg4tD.A.79F.c5ley"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/925 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:35:02 -0800 X-UIDL: 2336a7d8d4be2ebdd09464f8033bda5f Hi there. I thought I'd inquire if there were any midi looposts out there that are familiar with an older program called JamFactory by the now defunct (I believe) Intelligent Music company. It's an algorhythmic composition tool that allows you to record up to four different musical parts, patterns or motifs (via midi) of variable and indepentent length (according to RAM amount). And then play about with them as they repeat, causing them to evolve and change into something new and different in deliberate or random ways over the course of time. Once created these patterns can be repeated, mixed, morphed, sliced, diced, and transmogrified beyond all recognition (ad infinitum) in a very interactive way. And, the entire mixing, morphing process can be then recorded globally as what is refered to in the manual as a "movie" of all of the activities of the opperator. It's a rather interesting program that seems to be little known anymore. I was wondering if any of the rest of you had heard of it. It's quite fun to play with if you ever get a hold on a copy. I got it second-hand myself from another composer friend. Ted Killian From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:25:20 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 1 12:56:34 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJQdj-0007l3-00; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:56:31 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:15:35 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: MIDI Loops Resent-Message-ID: <"gDbldB.A.WCH.wMmey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/926 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:56:31 -0800 X-UIDL: 70fb65ef5eaefb6427f24d103585e25b >> ** I think it would be great to use similar tools and codes in audio- and >> MIDI loops so we can play together, transfer, synchronize easily. ** > Absolutely. I had very high hopes for the latest version of Studio Vision Pro, to be able to deal with audio events much the same as MIDI, unfortunately it isn't as stable on my machine (Powermac7100/66) as Deck. >My professor is not interested in using his trombone to trigger synthesizers >directly via MIDI. Rather, he is interested in using the computer as >an improvisational partner which analyzes his playing and formulates >a response instead of attempting to reproduce his phrases exactly (actually >his program is also capable of initiating its own improvisations without >any input from its human partner). So while audio looping technology has the >advantage of greater sonic expression, MIDI-based interactive technology >is currently more capable of real-time analysis of an incoming stream of >notes from a human musician. When the two can come together it will be >an exciting time indeed. > This sounds an awful lot like George Lewis and his Voyager system. Is it? ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:25:21 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 1 12:57:46 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJQes-000038-00; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:57:42 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:15:41 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: re:Hello and intro Resent-Message-ID: <"1S9u2B.A.FDH.4Mmey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/927 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:57:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 97af9da9d3d5733f591a2a452e653377 >I play 6 string electric bass as my primary instrument. I was a guitar >player first, but prefer to do the bulk of my looping with electric bass >both 4 and 6 string. I have on occasion used small Moog analog synths >(micro Moog, and prodigy) in loops. I also do binaural Dat recordings of >various sources, musical, mechanical, and environmental. Traffic to >Helicopters to people to frogs. I enjoy sound and _noises_. I'm not >alone in this, among you, I suspect. > Nope. I'm also a 6-string bass/analog synth/found sound type of guy, though my synth tastes are more ARP and Sequential. Welcome aboard. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:25:29 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 1 13:38:23 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJRIE-0002Nl-00; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:38:22 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 19:39:50 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: BRACE YOURSELVES!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"gVKlK.A.hDC.S0mey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/928 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:38:22 -0800 X-UIDL: 4025b0f5e80f24d9201a0357baec4369 >Matthias said something about music being a ritual act, thus, there is >something lost in the recording. I feel this way too (although I also love >recordings!) ...but there' s nothing like a LIVE performance! YEEES!! And I love recordings, too. Even though something is lacking, there is a lot. I do not think I will be able to take a plain to the first LOOP FESTIVAL :-( Move well and record it for me! Matthias From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:25:37 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 1 14:45:45 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJSLP-0006CP-00; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:45:43 -0800 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:41:39 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner X-Sender: dstagner@icarus.icarus.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Acoustic sound and looping In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"AC-XMB.A.3mF.vyney"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/929 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:45:43 -0800 X-UIDL: f084cbc1e76d542b42a8270b29baee56 On Fri, 1 Nov 1996, Matthias Grob wrote: > > >Matthias said something about music being a ritual act, thus, there is > >something lost in the recording. I feel this way too (although I also love > >recordings!) ...but there' s nothing like a LIVE performance! > > YEEES!! And I love recordings, too. Even though something is lacking, there > is a lot. Not only is there nothing like live, there's nothing like purely acoustic. Amplifiers and speakers (much less processors) do horrible things to sound. I had the pleasure of seeing the Tibetan Institute for the Performing Arts in a reasonably good hall on wednesday (if they come anywhere near you, do NOT miss them!) Two things struck me about the performance. The first was the wonderful immediacy of live human voices, simple percussion, and almost primitive horns, with no amplification. What a marvelous sound. The second thing ties to looping. Tibetan music uses percussion in a very different way from what we are generally accustomed to. The sound sometimes comes, not in precise beats, but rather in waves. Here's a neat thing they sometimes did... when playing small hand cymbals, the performer would hold one flat and steady in one hand, and "bounce" the other on it. It was an effect not unlike the sound of a dropped coin spinning as is settles down. It was rhythmic, but in a different way. This appealed to me because of some things I like to do myself while looping. One is to try to make complex percussive sounds that aren't necessarily "beats", that is, obvious subdivisions of the tempo. I'm sure all of us have experienced this just by playing a note at the wrong time, and after a while it sounds "right". The other, related thing is to try to set up sound that rises and falls in intensity in a regular way, without relying on a beat. The Tibetans have learned to do these things and more with very simple instruments. And speaking of acoustic looping, a small aside... are there any fans of Balinese music here? Balinese music generally consists of simple patterns of varying lengths, played on percussive instruments with a very simple, four note scale. Robert Fripp and Adrian Belew were heavily influenced by Balinese music during the 1980s King Crimson period. (another aside... a few years ago, I found a set of windchimes based on a Balinese rather than Western scale. Most windchimes are tuned to a Major 6add9 chord. The stacked thirds are so syrupy it almost makes me ill to hear them for long. My four-note Balinese chimes are tuned on a stack of fifths, GDAE. Harmonic relationships are dominated by fifths and seconds, with NO thirds. I *love* them! I often sit on the back porch with my acoustic guitar, just playing along and reacting to the sound of the chimes) -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:25:42 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 1 16:27:52 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJTwD-0004Dd-00; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:27:49 -0800 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:18:38 -0800 Message-Id: <199611020018.QAA05579@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: tunings Resent-Message-ID: <"pQtZIB.A.FvD.oSpey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/930 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:27:50 -0800 X-UIDL: d9b693e0aec7651136f80035b90bac00 this caught my eye: >Tunings: > >Anybody out there using unusual guitar tunings to cover up the lack of bass in >your loops? I've been trying several variants of tuning in 5ths (eg FCGDAE, >DAFCGD or GCGDAE, low-high) which give very lush-sounding chords but can be a >nightmare when it comes to playing single-note lines (hence the 4th in the bass >on the G-E tuning, my current fave). Anyone else have similar experiences? > I now only play in RF's new standard tuning for guitar. In conjunction with using the new tuning, I also make extensive use of various pitch devices so I can access both very high and very low tones. So, if I take the time, I can really cover a large spectrum "pitch-wise". And having the low C as a starting point helps too... dave at studio seventeen 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * I'll be downstairs if you need me. I'll still be * * downstairs if you DON'T need me. * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:25:43 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 1 16:29:04 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJTxN-0004IX-00; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:29:01 -0800 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:21:29 -0800 Message-Id: <199611020021.QAA05632@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: frightening if true Resent-Message-ID: <"oNUMIB.A.A5D.SVpey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/931 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:29:01 -0800 X-UIDL: 219675cc06c82e8ec1e3916a9de77f9e >This would have four independent inputs and outputs, stereo looping >ability >of up to six (or was it eight) minutes using standard 72 pin simms, and >too >many other features to recall. > Into the future........... dave 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * I'll be downstairs if you need me. I'll still be * * downstairs if you DON'T need me. * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:25:44 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 1 16:33:23 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJU1a-0004b6-00; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:33:22 -0800 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:26:08 -0800 Message-Id: <199611020026.QAA05680@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: interesting thoughts... Resent-Message-ID: <"dxiZaD.A.2ME.sZpey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/932 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:33:22 -0800 X-UIDL: b323c9ca86bde951039ab9ff2b90a089 >>Concerts possibly without musicians, the music being played by the audience >>itself, starting out from initial conditions set by a composer, and evolving >>like a living being. interesting thought...but (as usual) Matthias reply rings truer to me: >Nono, it takes an artist to create art. Accident is great, but only if an >artist interpretes it. Public envolvement is fun but not satisfactory, >lacking straightness or purity or something. >I may be totaly wrong here, would need to see the result. me too! it would STILL be interesting to see if a "non-artist" or "non-musician" audience could indeed "compose" something of merit using this method. i guess (as I think Matthias does too) that it would be more cacophony thatn anything........... very interesting. dave (at 17) 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * I'll be downstairs if you need me. I'll still be * * downstairs if you DON'T need me. * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:25:54 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 1 16:52:27 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJUK2-0005gR-00; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:52:26 -0800 Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:37:18 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Performances Past, Present and Future Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"eUON7D.A.KMF.Xrpey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/934 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:52:26 -0800 X-UIDL: 3ce6904bac255dd655da82deaf23df9a First, many thanks to Ted for his very kind words on my recital. I only wish that my enthusiasm for the performance was comparable to his! NOW... ABOUT THIS LOOPISTS GET-TOGETHER: I *know* there are more of you out there than those who have already responded! I won't attempt to "out" anyone here ;-}, but given that the web page lists nearly a dozen loop users based on the West Coast (and that many of them seem to have a slant towards live performance), it really seems feasible that some sort of summit concert could and should be arranged. I've got a couple of ideas in terms of places around LA that would be likely candidates for the thing to happen; Mr. Killian recommended Nels Cline, who runs a weekly new music night at the Alligator Lounge in Santa Monica and who is himself a loopist -- I actually caught a solo show of his a few weeks ago that leaned heavilly on an old Memory Man footpedal. If there's a center for "fringe" music in LA, Nels Cline and the Alligator are probably it, and there's a guaranteed core constituency there. (I do think it would be great to try and present this to an audience outside of ourselves.) HOWEVER, before I (or anyone else) starts looking into this, I think it would be a good idea to find out just how many people are interested, so as to better determine just what we're trying to organize in the first place. As there seems to be a vast array of musical directions and applications situated within a relatively small geographic location, I sincerely hope we can work together to make something happen. Let's try to pool our respective schedules and locales. --Andre (non-Jersey edition) From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:25:53 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 1 16:51:56 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJUJW-0005e1-00; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:51:54 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:49:16 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: finley@ecst.csuchico.edu (Matthew F. McCabe) Subject: Re: BRACE YOURSELVES!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"JuHm0.A.lEF._ppey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/933 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 16:51:54 -0800 X-UIDL: 38123e14f86e75b13b383e1462274059 >So what do you people think? Is there sufficient interest and ability >among those of us on the West Coast to try to arrange a regional meeting >and performance? Who would be into it? Where would be the best location, >both in terms of travel logistics and in terms of finding an appropriate >venue? For that matter, what sort of venue should we consider? Sounds like a great idea to me. We should definitely consider recording the results.....at least for the participants personal enjoyment. I'm up in Northern California (Chico actually).....somewhere in the Bay Area would be nice (LA is a mighty long drive). Matt From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:25:55 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 1 17:35:52 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJV02-00001R-00; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 17:35:50 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961102013644.006838dc@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com> X-Sender: cavaleri@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 17:36:44 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Joe Cavaleri Subject: Re: BRACE YOURSELVES!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"XdFXT.A.2PH.jUqey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/935 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 17:35:50 -0800 X-UIDL: 3474fd343e40dffdc9a986704c70a953 Andre and fellow looppeople This sounds like a great idea - count me in.. joe P.S. Thanks for sharing your music with us the other night. t 02:56 PM 10/31/96 -0800, you wrote: >Peeples -- > >I've been thinking about this since I started compiling submissions for >the profile list, and now I want to see what y'all think about it. > >The idea is this: To try and stage some sort of live gathering of loop >artists. Once again, I'm taking a cue from the Stick community, who >organized a "Stick Night" at the Iguana here in LA a couple of years ago. >Seeing as there are so many loopists based in California, it seems to me >that it would be feasible to try and arrange some sort of multi-artist >gathering/performance thing. The results could even be recorded and >distributed for posterity. > >So what do you people think? Is there sufficient interest and ability >among those of us on the West Coast to try to arrange a regional meeting >and performance? Who would be into it? Where would be the best location, >both in terms of travel logistics and in terms of finding an appropriate >venue? For that matter, what sort of venue should we consider? > >(And beyond that, is there a concentration of loopists in some other part >of the country where a different regional performance could be staged?) > >OK, your turn. Tell me what you all think about this. My feeling is, >there are enough of us concentrated in a relatively local orientation >that something like this really should be tried. > >'Till next time, > >--Andre (West Coast edition) > > From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:25:57 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 1 17:38:27 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJV2W-0000EM-00; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 17:38:24 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961102013951.0068a118@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com> X-Sender: cavaleri@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 17:39:51 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Joe Cavaleri Subject: Re: Loopers CD Resent-Message-ID: <"w1yU6D.A.LJ.XXqey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/936 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 17:38:25 -0800 X-UIDL: 61a11a99d2c529b7532f53372ba7e63b Hi all I would like to add my name to the CD list... joe At 11:33 AM 10/31/96 -0500, you wrote: >>>Adding the people who specifically reacted to the CD proposal, my count looks >>>like this (quite possible that I missed someone - please raise your hand!) >>> >>>Andre LaFosse >>>Dave Trenkel >>>David Kirkdorffer >>>David Orton >>>Doug Michael >>>Jon Morris >>>Louis Collier Hyams >>>Matthias Grob >>>Michael Hughes >>>Michael Peters >>>Patrick Smith >>>Ray Peck >>>Ted R. Killian >>>Todd Madson >> > >I am interested as well. Of course I will be listening for additional info....... > > >Steve Murrell > > > > > From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:25:58 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 1 18:03:27 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJVQj-0001M2-00; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 18:03:25 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961102020440.00b760f8@pureatria.com> X-Sender: sechevar@pureatria.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 18:04:40 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Sean Echevarria Subject: Re: BRACE YOURSELVES!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"waMsm.A.fLB.Luqey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/937 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 18:03:25 -0800 X-UIDL: f800a0a89949e35d3def0add57e73517 Another vote for a Bay area performance. From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:26:00 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 1 19:16:18 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJWZE-0004Wh-00; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 19:16:16 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 01:19:12 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: MIDI Loops Resent-Message-ID: <"qelG8C.A.HLE.Vyrey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/938 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 19:16:16 -0800 X-UIDL: 0333dd978500086ac61dc4e4aaef834e Hey Ted! >I thought I'd inquire if there were any midi looposts out there that are >familiar with an older program called JamFactory by the now defunct (I >believe) Intelligent Music company. This program seams to be very similar to what I had dremt of for a audio Mac aplication. Whatever you can find out or share about it will be highly welcome! Like the firms adress or the help file or... Thanks Matthias From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:26:01 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 1 19:21:04 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJWdq-0004nl-00; Fri, 1 Nov 1996 19:21:02 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 01:24:33 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Aloha! Resent-Message-ID: <"cEKqxD.A.0ZE.O3rey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/939 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 19:21:02 -0800 X-UIDL: 8d8e586322ad3674234f71cd87ac7640 Hi Teed > I would love to see a list devoted to just the echoplex, if there were >such a thing. No elitism implied here, I just don't have the time to read about >all those other cool machines. Anybody else interested? We do not write about machines any more. We use them. :-) No serious, I guess about 80% is on non technical subjects and most of the 20% was about old machines or not yet existing ones. I agree that it could be interesting to concentrate only on features and tricks of a certain machine without bothering... ahmmm... > I would also like to receive the digest for awhile (with full instructions on >how to unsubscribe, if that becomes necessary, which it probably will). My >brother told me that some servers have a "find" command that would make it >possible for me to scan a digest and only find echoplex comments. If I can make >that work, I can probably keep receiving the digest, otherwise not. Yep, I do that on other lists. Another idea would be to separate better even by subjects. We could put a letter in front of the subject, indicating kinds like Philosophy history Echoplex JamMan Vortex Organization ... So a smart mail soft could probably even separate what you are interested in. And its simpler and more flexible than having various lists. Stay and play Matthias From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:26:11 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 2 01:32:48 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJcRa-0007jp-00; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 01:32:46 -0800 Date: 02 Nov 96 04:20:13 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: MIDI Loops Message-ID: <961102092013_100041.247_JHB78-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"-TEfuB.A.yFH.mLxey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/940 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 01:32:46 -0800 X-UIDL: 09e4f19cc0cb0577dce1f8fb51206183 >I thought I'd inquire if there were any midi looposts out there that are >familiar with an older program called JamFactory by the now defunct (I >believe) Intelligent Music company. >It's an algorhythmic composition tool that allows you to record up to four >different musical parts, patterns or motifs (via midi) of variable and >indepentent length (according to RAM amount). And then play about with them >as they repeat, causing them to evolve and change into something new and >different in deliberate or random ways over the course of time. haven't heard of it but it sounds *very* interesting. It's probably for the Mac, right? Is there a program like Max or JamFactory for the PC at all, or would one have to buy a Mac to do fancy Midi stuff? A friend of mine saw Steve Hillage in concert recently. He used a notebook or Powerbook but my friend didn't see what he did. What kind of things can you do with a Powerbook in concerts? Could one do similar things with a Notebook running Windows? -Michael P From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:26:12 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 2 01:54:34 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJcmf-0000Ph-00; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 01:54:33 -0800 Date: 02 Nov 96 04:50:18 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Acoustic sound and looping Message-ID: <961102095018_100041.247_JHB75-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"C_fLXC.A.VU.Noxey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/942 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 01:54:33 -0800 X-UIDL: 2f2903c59384ee654a764b950b4cb7d1 Dave Stagner writes, > are there any fans of Balinese music here? yes, here's one! I love Javanese Gamelan almost more though. Balinese music is very dynamic and powerful, with many sudden changes, an extraordinary kind of music. Javanese music is more steady-state, minimalist stuff, and reminds me more of Jon Hassell's early 4th world music. I saw both when I was in Indonesia a few years ago, and loved it. Have you ever seen Balinese Jegog bamboo ensembles? They use scales with only 4 notes in them. Incredible stuff, and very hypnotic and powerful when seen live. I wish I could learn to play Gamelan but there are no ensembles here in Cologne/Germany... -Michael P From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:26:13 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 2 01:54:43 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJcmn-0000Q5-00; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 01:54:41 -0800 Date: 02 Nov 96 04:50:21 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: interesting thoughts... Message-ID: <961102095021_100041.247_JHB75-3@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"s864vD.A.FU.Moxey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/941 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 01:54:41 -0800 X-UIDL: 2470333788070f7d790097e96bd95a9b > it would STILL be interesting to see if a "non-artist" or "non-musician" > audience could indeed "compose" something of merit using this method. > i guess (as I think Matthias does too) that it would be more cacophony than > anything........... this is more likely than anything else, but who knows ... depends on the audience, and on the software. An intelligently constructed software should be able to take care of that somehow, filter cacophony, or subtly lead the audience to some more consonance. I doubt that I will live to see this, but I'd bet any sum that the music of the future (50 or 100 years from now) will be *completely* different from what it is now, and that its level of technical sophistication will also possibly allow for some kind of audience participation. At least the software will be intelligent enough for really interesting computer generated music, and generative music based on genetic algorithms. Brian Eno sees the beginning of this in the Koan software which he began to use last year, with interesting results. I heard that Todd Rundgren used some kind of device in his 'No World Order' tour which enabled the audience to influence the music ... don't know how it worked though. Did anyone see this? -Michael P From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 16:26:18 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 2 16:20:01 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJqIC-0006bM-00; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 16:20:00 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 18:38:45 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Re: More on Indonesian music Resent-Message-ID: <"s70jzC.A.mIG.yT-ey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/954 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 16:20:00 -0800 X-UIDL: 036441fde78c73e3fbc8ec21578a7d2d >On Sat, 2 Nov 1996, Matthias Grob wrote: > >> For me even more impressive was a theatre with about 30 male singers around >> the "stage", creating the coments to the piece (I did not understand >> anything of) using also impressive mouth and body rythms, noises and >> screams. Although sitting, they had a choregraphy, moving toards or away >> from the actors, shaking heads, showing fear, support and so on. Hard to >> imagine, huh? And then Andre wrote: >I think I saw this sort of thing staged here at CalArts a couple of years >ago -- it's called Monkey Chant. If done as it's supposed to be done, >it's apparently very impressive. Unfortunately I only saw the version >that was staged by students here at school, many of whom had little if >any tangible affinity for music. But still very interesting. > >--Andre Anyone interested in this check out the film Barkaka. There is a beautiful segment where they film the Monkey Chant outdoors, in Indonesia. It is also available on a Balinese Court Music CD, but not the same. I had the priveledge of seeing a Balinese Orchestra a few years back at the University of Maryland, and many smaller ensembles at the Festival of American Folklife in DC. If you ever visit DC, you can sit in with either a Balinese or Javanses Gamelan at the Indonesian Embassy. Patrick From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:26:15 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 2 09:45:27 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJk8M-0000V7-00; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 09:45:26 -0800 Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 12:37:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611021737.MAA22798@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: TR, kind-of-interactive Resent-Message-ID: <"b_UpV.A.pX.Zg4ey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/943 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 09:45:26 -0800 X-UIDL: 00ea675cfbe42c67ba3b741c34a2300c as regards Micheal Peters question about Rundgren's interactive tour - it was a great idea, but was more unique from the perspective of the "stage" - a 'pod' with todd inside, this way people could view from 360 degrees, as it was in the middle of the floor (at least where I saw it) i'm a big TR fan, but it wasn't that interactive other than some goofy stuffed toys & balloons that people could hit, and in "bang the drum' he gave out drumstix so a few folk could come up and jam - i heard at some shows audience members came up and pressed keys & switches on selected 'devices'. His 2 subsequent tours featured an occasion or two per night where he waould hand a random audience member a little compouter numeric keypad - altered to trigger predetermined notes/chords. This was pretty interactive i guess. Finally - his 2 latest CDs are of course Mac/Pc ready enhanced cd's and you can mess around with the mixes, tempos, track sequence, etc( he's about to tour the US west & south again soon, he's doing solo shows in Japan right now, see www.roadkill.com for more info... BTW here's a guy who, if you're not into, bears checking out - in terms of early use of cool synth, effects, looping and programming stuff in the early to mid 70s. Using computers, synths and even the theremin are some of the things on Todd's plate.... From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:26:16 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 2 09:50:24 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJkD8-0000gK-00; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 09:50:22 -0800 Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 12:43:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611021743.MAA23539@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: New Joni Resent-Message-ID: <"d9bgAC.A.Zl.nm4ey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/944 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 09:50:23 -0800 X-UIDL: 827b45e59bc1237167b507b02a94aabc Any Joni Mitchell fans out there???? wait - she'll really cool - check out the cool loop on "Empty- Try Another" on Dog eat Dog - it's a sample of the sound an empty cigarette machine makes... but here's my question - does anybody know anything else about her upcomnig new album with a VG-8 heavily featured???!!! This much i know: she has one, she loves it, and being an alternate tuning pioneer, she's waited years for something like this... I hear it will have some scary noises on it too, coutesy of virtual modeling... any info?? i'm gonna check some sites, of course....LOOPS AWAY !!! andre, east coast model From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:26:17 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 2 10:45:21 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJl4K-0002fg-00; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 10:45:20 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 11:06:54 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Performances Past, Present and Future Resent-Message-ID: <"J75AbD.A.kcC.Da5ey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/945 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 10:45:20 -0800 X-UIDL: a7582c07b0be66feae1317e6391cb60e >NOW... ABOUT THIS LOOPISTS GET-TOGETHER: > >I *know* there are more of you out there than those who have already >responded! I won't attempt to "out" anyone here ;-}, but given that the >web page lists nearly a dozen loop users based on the West Coast (and that >many of them seem to have a slant towards live performance), it really >seems feasible that some sort of summit concert could and should be >arranged. I've got a couple of ideas in terms of places around LA that >would be likely candidates for the thing to happen; Mr. Killian >recommended Nels Cline, who runs a weekly new music night at the Alligator >Lounge in Santa Monica and who is himself a loopist -- I actually caught a >solo show of his a few weeks ago that leaned heavilly on an old Memory Man >footpedal. If there's a center for "fringe" music in LA, Nels Cline and >the Alligator are probably it, and there's a guaranteed core constituency >there. (I do think it would be great to try and present this to an >audience outside of ourselves.) > I'm interested, though Oregon's a LOOOONG ways from LA, with enough advance I may be able to make it. Cline is pretty inspiring. My band opened for his trio in June, we were pretty seriously blown away. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:26:19 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 2 11:41:56 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJlx6-0004aK-00; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 11:41:56 -0800 Date: 02 Nov 96 14:37:36 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: TR, kind-of-interactive Message-ID: <961102193736_100041.247_JHB129-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"yKck.A.qOE.AP6ey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/946 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 11:41:56 -0800 X-UIDL: 15716fe1d7ac91a364145dc19020c9f1 > BTW here's a guy who, if you're not into, bears checking out definitely. Thanks Andre for your detailed description. I'm a big Todd Rundgren fan too. The one time he came here to Germany I missed him - I've never seen him live. I remember 1979 (when I was very young, ) and on my first trip to the US, I actually went to Bearsville NY just to visit him. Of course he wasn't home (or so I was told) but a very nice man from the studio gave me a Todd Rundgren songbook for free. The MIDI discussion here really excited me because it made me aware that I should get a MIDI interface (preferably, an AXON I think) and try to find a software that would enable me to interact with a improvising computer. Again everyone, who knows if interesting software exists *for a Windows PC* which could do this? -Michael P From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:26:20 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 2 13:24:39 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJnYV-0000Sv-00; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 13:24:39 -0800 Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 13:08:18 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Javanese music In-Reply-To: <961102095018_100041.247_JHB75-2@CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"93H6a.A.1X.Mv7ey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/947 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 13:24:39 -0800 X-UIDL: 0cca616b4ad2442e625772477b66fbfa On 2 Nov 1996, Michael Peters wrote: > Dave Stagner writes, > > > are there any fans of Balinese music here? > > yes, here's one! I love Javanese Gamelan almost more though. Balinese music > is very dynamic and powerful, with many sudden changes, an extraordinary > kind of music. Javanese music is more steady-state, minimalist stuff I played in a Javanese gamelan ensemble last spring here at school. (Apparently the new gamelan which was obtained for the Javanese ensemble at the beginning of last year is the finest one in North America!) There are some definite connections between that sort of music and looping, I'd say, particularly since most of the Javanese music I played consisted of what could be described in Western terms as one or two (occasionally more) eight or sixteen-bar cycles repeated for a looooong time. Fifteen to twenty minutes was the average length of time for a lot of the pieces we played. It's one thing to hear an electronic loop spinning that long, but it's another thing to actually have to manually play it over and over while sitting cross-legged on the floor. (Ouch). Very beautiful music, though, no doubt about that. I would frequently have the sensation after several minutes of suddenly hearing new textures emerging out of the overall sonic pattern. There was even one section that always seemed to morph into what sounded for all the world like a wind instrument. (It was actually a series of metals being struck with mallets.) --Andre From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:26:22 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 2 13:34:49 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJniK-0000rc-00; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 13:34:48 -0800 Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 13:18:54 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Seven Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"7rlLfC.A.Ox.I57ey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/948 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 13:34:48 -0800 X-UIDL: 1e8ff30c8bad825adf3dee5dceacbb79 That's the number of people I've counted thus far (not including myself, which I s'pose makes it eight, huh?) interested in doing a West Coast looping gig: Dave Trenkel (current holder of the long-distance award) Sean Echevarria Joe Cavaleri Matt McCabe Chris Chovit Ted Killian Tom Attix Andre LaFosse Now then, a number of people have asked for a Bay Area performance. This I personally could do, if it's held an an appropriate time (i.e. minimal academic conflicts). What do the other SoCal loopists say? My feeling is that we need to now think about how best to present the program, and where to do it. I don't know about the Bay Area, so recommendations for locations will have to be made by someone else. Should we do two (or more) consecutive nights in a row, or try to stage the whole thing in a single marathon day? Is this going to be in a more "austere" sort of environment (college campus, art museum) or something more down to earth (bar or club)? Indoor or outdoor? One important consideration would be procuring a house PA. I suspect that at least some people would benefit greatly from having a full-range system through which to run some gear, particularly of the non-guitaristic variety. (For instance, I personally don't have any synth-specific amplification for the MIDI portion of my rig.) Also important to consider are possibilities for recording the thing, both sonically and perhaps visually as well. So let's see what other people have to say, and keep thing going! Thanks for all the good responses thus far. And anyone else into this idea, please add your names to the list. --Andre From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:26:35 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 2 14:49:21 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJosS-0003bR-00; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 14:49:20 -0800 Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 14:33:20 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: More on Indonesian music In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"wDism.A.4UD.B_8ey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/953 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 14:49:20 -0800 X-UIDL: b06a5cf7c0bdda799dbed480bed3f836 On Sat, 2 Nov 1996, Matthias Grob wrote: > For me even more impressive was a theatre with about 30 male singers around > the "stage", creating the coments to the piece (I did not understand > anything of) using also impressive mouth and body rythms, noises and > screams. Although sitting, they had a choregraphy, moving toards or away > from the actors, shaking heads, showing fear, support and so on. Hard to > imagine, huh? I think I saw this sort of thing staged here at CalArts a couple of years ago -- it's called Monkey Chant. If done as it's supposed to be done, it's apparently very impressive. Unfortunately I only saw the version that was staged by students here at school, many of whom had little if any tangible affinity for music. But still very interesting. --Andre From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:26:23 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 2 14:33:44 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJodL-0002tZ-00; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 14:33:43 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 20:37:26 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: tunings Resent-Message-ID: <"hqWDKD.A.bmC.Cw8ey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/949 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 14:33:43 -0800 X-UIDL: 5d308aec079359aa03adc0203cc3bee8 >I now only play in RF's new standard tuning for guitar. I am ashamed to ask in this club. I almost participated on a course, but I cannot learn such way. So please, tell me the RF tuning. Thanks. >I also make extensive use of various pitch devices so >I can access both very high and very low tones. Yes, me too. Sad that not even the PCM80 is clean when it comes to shift a frequency mix (several notes, chords). My PARADIS has two frets more on the E string, so I have low D constantly without any change in fingering (exept to remember to press E) These days I thought about tuning (Not an issue for me so far) and wished deeply a tuning with equal distance between strings so any fingering can be applied anywere. I tuned B and high E string a half tone up. It is marvelous somehow, much easier for the brain. But then again some chords become nightmares. Maybe its not me to develop such stuff. I always remember Rainer Franzmann. He was an architect, in love with guitar. He thought about the instrument in a free way I never saw elswhere. He visited me in Biel in '91 with a crazy big proposual to create the perfect guitar with polyphonic stuff and lots of controlers all over the instrument - a lot of genious ideas and a lot of far off dreams about electronics. He showed a prototype of a guitar with a "tremolo" that detuned harmonically and was operated from the neck. Incredibly intuitive to use! Ljubo built such in his guitar, the idea lives. It also had an elbow controller, a very intuitive expression way - and 8 strings. He said that he does not like 6 string tuning because fingering is to hard and unequal. This seamed very logic to me. He called his tuning "symetric" and it was E G# c e G# c1 e1 g#1. I met him again in Frankfurt with a bunch of guitar creaters (Rolf, Ljubo) and he used to spread an incredible creative, alive energy. I was busy with projects I thought were a little closer to what clients could understand and I did not understand why he was in a hurry so much, until I heard that he had died, about a year after. Then I remembered the dark shades under his eyes. Death must be harder when the projects are on paper only, everbody calling it genious, but nobody executing it. I do not know where his prototypes went, and all the nice drawings (architect!). If anyone heard about this or has a way to find something - he lived in Freiburg. I have a 13 pages project of his in hands. Should I publish it? Am I alowed to do so? Well, anyway, its in german and I have no scanner, so it would be hard work... Matthias From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:26:24 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 2 14:34:02 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJoda-0002uw-00; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 14:33:58 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 20:37:39 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: MIDI Loops Resent-Message-ID: <"qqFHcB.A.inC.Lw8ey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/950 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 14:33:58 -0800 X-UIDL: 0aa4b7f1f00bd486b98ad1d545f6df91 Jim about looping problems in his sequencer: >It's not the sort of thing the designers intended, so each sequencer >will act differently. The looping features in MOTU are best suited >for drum or pattern programming. What I wanted was multiple loops >with different lengths, and I'm not sure where it was happening, but >I kept loosing notes here and there. Since you seem to understand programming: How far away from a handy looping set are the comercial sequencers? Which comes closest? Should we try to convince one to include our trip? Its a composition tool, after all... Jim again, full of valuable experience: >One can do feedback using Max, but the "code" to do that >has to manually remove notes when their volume (midi velocity) reaches >zero, otherwise the delay line can end up with a large number of >notes that are not played, ultimately slowing down the system. Understandable. So you created that code? For the rest of us? >I did a >good bit of Max programming last winter and found that the flexibility >is remarkable, but more advanced patches can be time consuming to >build. On the other hand, it is relatively easy to set up muliple >lines (w/ feedback) and have envelope generators control their levels >independently, transpose them on the fly, etc. >Doing midi-based looping is very different than audio looping, midi is >not as expressive as having a real instrument to play, but is very >flexible and interesting in other ways. Max comes with a couple of >large patches that are interactive composition engines. Would it be possible to create a MaxLooper this winter ? (summer here!) I have no idea how many musicians use Max and whether there would be a comercial way... ERIC? (must be lurking...) Did you ever program a Max patch? You certainly cared to know how that works... Yes my friends, if we do not go for it with curage, we will not retire in happy loopland. There are different ways and they probably meet in the end... Matthias From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:26:26 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 2 14:34:08 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJodi-0002vt-00; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 14:34:06 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 20:37:49 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: MIDI Loops Resent-Message-ID: <"fpvjEC.A.YpC.aw8ey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/951 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 14:34:06 -0800 X-UIDL: 5a14f3a811ebe65db3ea594835504f84 >> Paolo helps: >> >I used an Opcode Max patch that had eight delay lines, each of which >> >pitch-shifted to a different interval and each of which had it's own >> >"seed" number to multiply with the input MIDI velocity value to produce >> >a delay time. >> >> So you choose any time into which delay you want to load and can change its >> "seed" number and Feedback while playing and stay synced between all delay >> lines, if you want. Yes? > >With my particular patch, no, but Max would let you add whatever "objects" >you need to do the job. For example, a fader object to adjust the >"seed" for each delay line could be connected. Yes, I see. And then another object measures time between two Controller comands and feeds "seed" so you can control it by taping, right? >If you fail to find a Max >object in the included object library supplied with Max to do a particular >job, you can write up your own in C. Me? No. Did you? Does it require additional compiling soft or licence? >Last I heard, there was a substantial >repository of Max objects programmed by Max enthusiasts, but I forgot the >ftp location. Maybe there is a secret loopist! >What I gather from the community of interactive computer music folks is >that Max is a great tool for prototyping interactive music systems. Some of >them then go and program their systems in a faster language like Forth, >after using Max to quickly build a prototype. > >The Powerbook is nice for its portability, which is a big plus for live >performance. Last I heard, all five members of the computer music band >The Hub had switched to Powerbooks as the computer of choice for live >computer music because of the portability and the ability to run Max. Is this an exeption or a market (soon)? Certainly Max is great for prototyping but will non engineer musicians use it commonly in the future? >> ** I think it would be great to use similar tools and codes in audio- and >> MIDI loops so we can play together, transfer, synchronize easily. ** > >My professor is not interested in using his trombone to trigger synthesizers >directly via MIDI. Rather, he is interested in using the computer as >an improvisational partner which analyzes his playing and formulates >a response instead of attempting to reproduce his phrases exactly (actually >his program is also capable of initiating its own improvisations without >any input from its human partner). So while audio looping technology has the >advantage of greater sonic expression, MIDI-based interactive technology >is currently more capable of real-time analysis of an incoming stream of >notes from a human musician. When the two can come together it will be >an exciting time indeed. Very well said. Work for another decade. Thanks Matthias From ???@??? Sat Nov 02 15:26:34 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 2 14:34:55 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJoeT-00030W-00; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 14:34:53 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 20:38:45 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Acoustic sound and looping Resent-Message-ID: <"Qskh9C.A._uC.Tx8ey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/952 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 14:34:53 -0800 X-UIDL: d635a2a5295b63a3d893ee3db952bef3 Dave Stagner: >Not only is there nothing like live, there's nothing like purely >acoustic. Amplifiers and speakers (much less processors) do horrible >things to sound. Unfortunately, I must agree... >... to try to set up sound that rises and falls in intensity in a >regular way, without relying on a beat. The Tibetans have learned to >do these things and more with very simple instruments. > >And speaking of acoustic looping, a small aside... are there any fans >of Balinese music here? I visited Bali in '85 and followed the sound. (Like here hundreds of street dogs bark all night :-) What most stroke me of the Gamelan music was these waves. I remember it was somehow tiring for me, to hear it grow and come down, grow and come down, 100 times in an evening (they don't stop easily!). The sound is very metallic, quick and light - a way to call higher chakras. Exteremly nice and independent, self secure and tolerant people, faithfull and smiling.. Their tradition and religion really works, not only in the music. For me even more impressive was a theatre with about 30 male singers around the "stage", creating the coments to the piece (I did not understand anything of) using also impressive mouth and body rythms, noises and screams. Although sitting, they had a choregraphy, moving toards or away from the actors, shaking heads, showing fear, support and so on. Hard to imagine, huh? >(another aside... a few years ago, I found a set of windchimes based >on a Balinese rather than Western scale. Most windchimes are tuned to >a Major 6add9 chord. The stacked thirds are so syrupy it almost makes >me ill to hear them for long. My four-note Balinese chimes are tuned >on a stack of fifths, GDAE. Harmonic relationships are dominated by >fifths and seconds, with NO thirds. I *love* them! I often sit on >the back porch with my acoustic guitar, just playing along and >reacting to the sound of the chimes) Beautifull! Thank you Matthias From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 16:26:21 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 2 17:34:22 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJrS9-0001Ho-00; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:34:21 -0800 Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:27:42 -0800 Message-Id: <199611030127.RAA17418@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: Joni Mitchell Resent-Message-ID: <"HydMU.A.7JB.hZ_ey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/955 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:34:21 -0800 X-UIDL: 4254d24e2eabb8a524b24d02521749fe andre (ECV) said: >Any Joni Mitchell fans out there???? I too am not afraid or ashamed to admit that I've loved Joni's music for many years. If you haven't tried it, check it out! And apparently her new guitar synth allows her to switch tunings in an instant (which is perfect for her, because she's been composing songs in alternative tunings since the mid-60s...) All without using those pesky tuning keys... dave at seventeen 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * I'll be downstairs if you need me. I'll still be * * downstairs if you DON'T need me. * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 16:26:23 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 2 17:39:30 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJrX8-0001WM-00; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:39:30 -0800 Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:33:00 -0800 Message-Id: <199611030133.RAA17507@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: west coast gigs Resent-Message-ID: <"UbKhRC.A.IXB.Ve_ey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/956 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:39:30 -0800 X-UIDL: 988225115ce92a9784f17f52b3bff01e > >That's the number of people I've counted thus far (not including myself, >which I s'pose makes it eight, huh?) interested in doing a West Coast >looping gig: > >Dave Trenkel (current holder of the long-distance award) >Sean Echevarria >Joe Cavaleri >Matt McCabe >Chris Chovit >Ted Killian >Tom Attix >Andre LaFosse You can certainly count me in too (I'm in San Diego) but my schedule is more of a problem than driving to LA or whatever. I can't absolutely commit, but if it's a couple months away...and preferably on a SATURDAY! I think it would be good (but with 8 ++ performers it's going to be a LONNNNNNGGGGGGG show...) to hear several different approaches to live looping performance. dave at seventeen 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * I'll be downstairs if you need me. I'll still be * * downstairs if you DON'T need me. * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 16:26:26 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 2 17:46:10 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJrdZ-0001pS-00; Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:46:09 -0800 Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:39:41 -0800 Message-Id: <199611030139.RAA17582@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: new standard tuning Resent-Message-ID: <"mylSQ.A.EqB.mk_ey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/957 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 2 Nov 1996 17:46:09 -0800 X-UIDL: 9127883e004f7a000b65e2be55ca6357 matthias said: >>I now only play in RF's new standard tuning for guitar. > >I am ashamed to ask in this club. I almost participated on a course, but I >cannot learn such way. So please, tell me the RF tuning. Thanks. > from lowest to highest: C G D A E G Only the D remains from Old Standard, although you do have the high E (now on the second string). And of course the G and C are LOWERED. This acheives perfect fifths across the lowest five strings...and you must then learn to deal with the anomaly of the high G (not hard with practice). Three warnings: 1) RF has said that the tuning alone is not much use without all of the other GC exercises and disciplines 2) This is hard on guitars, and for the first TWO or THREE years I was CONSTANTLY breaking my high G string (or the E or the A...) Now I never do, a gentle consistent approach, and familiarity with the language...at some point it finally all clicked. 3) Forget about BENDING. It will break strings, almost always. (Of course you can get away with on the bottom 3 or 4 strings if you really want. have FUN dave at studio seventeen 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * I'll be downstairs if you need me. I'll still be * * downstairs if you DON'T need me. * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 16:26:32 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 3 00:24:35 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJxr8-0005yY-00; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 00:24:34 -0800 Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 00:19:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611030819.AAA28418@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <961031001422_100041.247_JHB68-1@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"0_4WvC.A.bhF.OXFfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/958 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 00:24:34 -0800 X-UIDL: 414d02e92f49dbfbee94eee61a8e8c14 Michael Peters writes: >hi Ray, > >> I'm not in if this is done as a semi-commercial vanture like this. >> I thought it was just going to be a friendly list disk. > >We're still discussing several possible models of how to exchange ideas - >we haven't decided for a commercial venture, nor against it (I think). >Maybe we should first do a CD just for list members, and then see if it has >enough 'commercial potential' to produce larger quantities. OK. >At any rate, I'm sure everyone would agree that the disk (or whatever will be >the outcome) should foremost remain a friendly project! Gosh, I didn't mean it *that* way! ;-) From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 16:26:33 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 3 00:56:25 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJyLx-0006iZ-00; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 00:56:25 -0800 Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 00:54:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611030854.AAA29355@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <199610311808.KAA13020@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: MIDI Loops Resent-Message-ID: <"tk8Gw.A.4QG.P4Ffy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/959 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 00:56:25 -0800 X-UIDL: 9dd1f8d8086b4311b5148446a59986fa >I really enjoyed the flexibility of Max combined with the portability of >my Powerbook. About the only drawback was that the resultant sounds >lacked the complexity of "real" strings. The folks at CCRMA claim that one DSP board driven with SynthBuilder can run a physical model of a 6-string electric guitar. Given that David Jaffe is working on it, and given what he did with stringed instrument synthesis 10 years ago, this should be incredible. If you've got an old PC laying around this might be worth looking into (the PC doesn't do the processing, so a 486 should do it). From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 16:26:35 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 3 01:28:51 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJyrK-0007Pe-00; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:28:50 -0800 Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:27:13 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611030927.BAA00485@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: BRACE YOURSELVES!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"2oc8UD.A.86G.uWGfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/960 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 01:28:50 -0800 X-UIDL: 172293725496d96a94e75568e9bfb6a7 >The idea is this: To try and stage some sort of live gathering of loop >artists. Speaking of a Bay Area gathering, a friend of mine is involved in an Expose (prog magazine) concert series. I'll bet they'd love to host such a loopers' show. From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 16:26:39 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 3 03:10:02 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vK0RC-0002ap-00; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 03:09:58 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ccnet3.ccnet.com: dmic27 owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 03:08:17 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Michael X-Sender: dmic27@ccnet3 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Seven In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"-pwme.A.vSC.70Hfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/961 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 03:09:58 -0800 X-UIDL: 5ab36cfa96fbfbbfc3d9385f38df70ce On Sat, 2 Nov 1996, The Man Himself wrote: > That's the number of people I've counted thus far (not including myself, > which I s'pose makes it eight, huh?) interested in doing a West Coast > looping gig: > Dave Trenkel (current holder of the long-distance award) > Sean Echevarria > Joe Cavaleri > Matt McCabe > Chris Chovit > Ted Killian > Tom Attix > Andre LaFosse > > Now then, a number of people have asked for a Bay Area performance. This > I personally could do, if it's held an an appropriate time (i.e. minimal > academic conflicts). What do the other SoCal loopists say? Hello, You can count me in - definitely if it is a Bay Area gig. Doug Michael From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 16:26:40 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 3 08:00:44 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vK4yZ-00063w-00; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 08:00:43 -0800 Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 16:59:57 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell In-Reply-To: <199611030127.RAA17418@barley.adnc.com> Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"PySiNB.A.UpF.BGMfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/962 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 08:00:44 -0800 X-UIDL: ca3ffb4649f52fd545447cd8d0a5f913 Why in the hell would there be reason to be ashemed!!!!! Her music is very good. She has respect from the best players, and a lot of the best have been working with her (M. Landau, S. Lukather, J. Pastorius, W. Shorter, R. Ford, J. Porcaro and many others!!!) Mingus even wrote her an album called...Mingus! Besides she is using a VG-8 from roland to get those open tunings... Definitely in love with her work-Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 16:26:42 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 3 10:16:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vK75h-0002mc-00; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 10:16:13 -0800 Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 13:11:37 -0500 From: KRosser414@aol.com Message-ID: <961103131136_1981319341@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: New Joni Resent-Message-ID: <"7abMfD.A.UcC.YCOfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/963 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 10:16:13 -0800 X-UIDL: 0cb3db5aa524f14b86eafeb6e333d9fc In a message dated 96-11-02 12:50:36 EST, you write: >Any Joni Mitchell fans out there???? Yes, very much so. >wait - she'll really cool - check out the cool loop on "Empty- Try Another" >on Dog eat Dog - it's a sample of the sound an empty cigarette machine >makes... How 'bout that loop of coyotes howling behind "The Wolf That Lives in Lindsey"? One of the most captivating pieces of recorded music ever, IMHO. >but here's my question - does anybody know anything else about her upcomnig >new album with a VG-8 heavily featured???!!! This much i know: she has one, >she loves it, and being an alternate tuning pioneer, she's waited years for >something like this... I hear it will have some scary noises on it too, >coutesy of virtual modeling... Just that so far it features only herself on VG-8 and New Orleans young lion jazz drummer Brian Blade (no bass). Everybody stand back! Ken R From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 16:26:51 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 3 12:54:46 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vK9Z7-0001SJ-00; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 12:54:45 -0800 Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 12:45:31 -0800 Message-Id: <199611032045.MAA25946@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: Re: new standard tuning Resent-Message-ID: <"ah-2l.A.gOB.4YQfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/966 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 12:54:45 -0800 X-UIDL: 9917c1e468d550692fda5647aaacbf52 At 06:37 PM 11/3/96 -0300, you wrote: > >>C G D A E G > >I do not think I will learn another tuning with a irregularity. > >>3) Forget about BENDING. It will break strings, almost always. (Of course >>you can get away with on the bottom 3 or 4 strings if you really want. > >I would rather play without strings than without bending. > >Thanks a lot anyway. >Matthias > > Just like short loops with sudden endings with NO REVERB...perhaps playing without bending might force one to play in a new and different fashion... can one express emotion through the guitar WITHOUT recourse to the blues/standard "emotive" sound of a bend? if you WANT to bend, of course DO, in OST. but in NST...there are challenges to be met. don't dismiss it out of hand. and the irregularity in NST is far simpler and easier to overcome than the crippling, hand-it-down-for-centuries (lutes onward) oh-god-it's a fourth-instead-of-a-fifth "standard tuning" it least in NST you have five strings, in sequence, in which scales are IDENTICAL and UNIQUE. no having to worry when you get to that third string... it's all in your perspective, my friend. you of all people will understand... try it anyway. ask yourself: can I make even better music WITHOUT bending? i find more and more the answer is yes. also: in NST, i constantly use the WHAMMY II pedal for pitch manipulation, octaving and bending. so in this sense...it makes no difference WHAT the strings are tuned to. if not whammying: NST no bending. if whammying: NST no bending (or: OST no bending) just trying to confuse the hell out of everyone :) dave at studio seventeen 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * I'll be downstairs if you need me. I'll still be * * downstairs if you DON'T need me. * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 16:26:56 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 3 13:48:06 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKAOi-0003Hx-00; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 13:48:04 -0800 Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 13:29:26 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: BRACE YOURSELVES!!! In-Reply-To: <199611030927.BAA00485@pure.PureAtria.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"d3-CCC.A.HCD.WLRfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/967 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 13:48:04 -0800 X-UIDL: d4eb750d6f6b79a91f2c58bf12163cce On Sun, 3 Nov 1996, Ray Peck wrote: > >The idea is this: To try and stage some sort of live gathering of loop > >artists. > > Speaking of a Bay Area gathering, a friend of mine is involved in an > Expose (prog magazine) concert series. I'll bet they'd love to host > such a loopers' show. WOW! I didn't know Peter Thalen was staging concerts! Can somebody forward me the Expose web site, or Thalen's e-mail address? One of us should get in touch with him ASAP. --Andre From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 16:26:48 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 3 12:33:37 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vK9Ee-0000Oi-00; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 12:33:36 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 18:37:27 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: west coast gigs Resent-Message-ID: <"KfJFIC.A.IS.fFQfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/964 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 12:33:36 -0800 X-UIDL: 058c63d26a81b52b53bfe71a087acbcb >>West Coast looping gig: >> >>Dave Trenkel (current holder of the long-distance award) >>Sean Echevarria >>Joe Cavaleri >>Matt McCabe >>Chris Chovit >>Ted Killian >>Tom Attix >>Andre LaFosse >>Dave Stafford > >I think it would be good (but with 8 ++ performers it's going to be a >LONNNNNNGGGGGGG show...) to hear several different approaches to live >looping performance. May I suggest that some of you join on stage to fill it more and to make it more interesting also for you. It does not mean that the preset have to play all the time, it could be a loose from one to the next. Maybe some live close and could rehearse a piece or in case of impro, know each others kind? For this, it actually would make a lot of sense to compile the cassette first. I would REALLY like to participate on this... Matthias From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 16:26:50 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 3 12:33:41 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vK9Ei-0000P6-00; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 12:33:40 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 18:37:33 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: new standard tuning Resent-Message-ID: <"uW4aWD.A.PT.pFQfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/965 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 12:33:40 -0800 X-UIDL: 9064edf7a72ab0809848732d1cf543d4 >C G D A E G I do not think I will learn another tuning with a irregularity. >3) Forget about BENDING. It will break strings, almost always. (Of course >you can get away with on the bottom 3 or 4 strings if you really want. I would rather play without strings than without bending. Thanks a lot anyway. Matthias From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 16:26:58 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 3 14:02:52 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKAd1-0003qv-00; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 14:02:51 -0800 Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 13:44:14 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: The latest on the West Coast Summit Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"xWihYB.A.YkD.QZRfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/968 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 14:02:51 -0800 X-UIDL: e75a5cd83199fcb6a816cf715fa853e1 The current roster as I see it reads as follows: Dave Trenkel (current holder of the long-distance award) Sean Echevarria Joe Cavaleri Matt McCabe Chris Chovit Ted Killian Tom Attix Andre LaFosse Dave @ 17 Doug Michael At this point, I would have to emphatically push for a two-day event. If we average an hour set for each individual (plus the inevitable and, in this casew, probably considerable equipment changeovers), then we're looking at at least an eleven-hour marthon. Woe to those who are still trying to listen (or perform!) with fresh ears by the end of that sort of gig! Also, in response to an earlier post by Matthias, I *definitely* think that some sort of collaborative bits should be included; for example, having two or three Echoplex users sync their units up to one another, or to a common external source, and then have at it. Now, here are a couple of things I'd like to ask of everyone. 1) What would be the best time for you, both in terms of when in the upcoming calendar year, and when during the week? My guess is that a weekend at some point in the next two or three months is going to be the best candidate. 2) What are your gear requirements? Is your rig totally self-contained? Would you have need or interest in an external/full range system? List a rundown of your live performance gear. 3) How long of a set would you be likely to play? (Try to keep it at about an hour maximum). 4) Do you have interest in doing a (probably unrehearsed) live collaboration with another loopist? (Note: In my opinion, this should *not* take the place of someone's own set in the program). If so, what sort of hardware do you use? 5) What time of day would your preference run to? If this is a two-day proposition, would it start in the early afternoon and wrap up before midnight? Start in the evening and go until the cows come home? 6) What sort of venue would you like to play? And for any bay area residents, what recommendations would you have for specific sights? Post this to the digest and we'll see if we can approach a consensus. Also, I'm gonna go over to rec.music.progressive and see if I can get a hold of Peter Thalen; the Expose team should be very useful. (If anyone already knows him, please feel free to tell him about our endeavor.) It's great to see this thing starting to congeal. Keep it going, --Andre From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 16:27:01 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 3 14:15:19 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKAp4-0004JK-00; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 14:15:18 -0800 Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 17:08:38 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611032208.RAA20096@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: Re: see guitar player mag, etc Resent-Message-ID: <"H2YfwB.A.p-D.7kRfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/970 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 14:15:18 -0800 X-UIDL: 78aebd7b30a5b39dc51ff7a58d8228dc hey folks folks folks f o l k s andre (nj) here with three quick tidbits - (1) my namesake bro Andre La Fosse is in the latest issue of GP in the " unsigned new talent" feature or whatever it's called (sorry). a very cool little profile..he might by shy to announce this to everyone - but i'll assure you he didn't put me up to this!!! Let's flood these mags with our tapes & CDs so they know there's more out there than....well, you know.. (2) and please , loop addicts - check out the new album by BON - bear with me if you already know this - but they feature Bon Lozaga, who was on a bunch of GONG albums in the late 70s and spearheaded the awesome GONGZILLA cd with Holdsworth on it a few years ago.. anyway , the new one's called "to the Bone" and has some cool loops on it, both by Bon & Mr Torn hisself. Caryn Lin also turns in some great soaring violin. It's a pretty stomping album tho, lots of extended, fluid soloing and great bass (Hansford Rowe, also ex-GONG) and Vic Stevens smashing kit drums./.... My own project "hidden agenda" has played a couple gigs opening for these guys and they are great - we also feature a lot of loop driven improv, with live (real!!) percussion, as well as bass & drums. Anyone in the NJ area out there??? (3) Cool, junky old equipment tip of the week - Boss made (still does) a series of 1/2 rackspace effects - most of which fell between the crax as multi programmable processors came along - but i feed a lot of my loops with my old RPS-10 a 'digital pitch shifter/delay'. It's only got 800ms of delay, but it enables me to 2 different modes of 'backwards' guitar.. this makes for some great loops once they get going. really wild, and very smooth sounding -in fact if you're a Crinson fan - Belew has a pair of 'em - they also do great pitch shift. So while it's not MIDI, I can turn it on/off with the Rockman Octopus in my rack. Hopefully everyone's hip to THOSE things... So - that's my offering to those bargain hunters like me, scouring the used corners of music stores. BTW - here are two resources for used stuff. Sorry if this is obvious - this is kinda new to me!! rogue music, NYC: www.roguemusic.com with tons o'links!! east village music store, NYC www.evillagemusic.com keep Looping, brothers and sisters. life is a LOOP after all- the energy goes round and round and don't forget----music is the best (FZ) andre of the east ps -anyone out there have a MIDI MITIGATOR???? From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 16:27:02 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 3 14:31:52 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKB55-0004y0-00; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 14:31:51 -0800 Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 14:13:04 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Greetings (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"mBAnMD.A.vlE.W0Rfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/971 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 14:31:51 -0800 X-UIDL: 4953620a67c4004977e2f51ff11bfb00 This is a copy of a letter I just sent to Peter Thalen of Expose, which is a print magazine dedicated to progressive music. --Andre ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 14:09:44 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: ptlk@netcom.com Subject: Greetings Hello -- My name is Andre LaFosse, and I'm writing to you as a result of a lead which was suggested on Looper's Delight, a bounce list dedicated to loop-oriented music. Right now the list membership is in the talking stages of trying to organize some sort of live summit meeting -- sort of a cross between a multi-artist festival and general get-together. The idea is to try and facilitate an exchange of musics and ideas among the different musicians using looping in their music. Right now there are about ten interested parties, and it looks as though the locale will be the bay area. Someone on the list mentioned that Expose was helping to organize some performances in the region, and suggested contacting you for the possibility of any sort of collaborative involvement. So if you have any information or interest to share, many of us would readilly welcome it. Recommendations for performance locations, suggestions for organizing and staging the shows, collaborative involvement... at this point, it's still in the talking stages, so anything would be helpful. I'll forward you a copy of the latest word (such as it is) regarding the loop summit, and leave you an address where you can contact the list if you're interested in further information. Thanks very much for your time; good luck in your own performance endeavors, and thanks in advance for any assistance you can offer. Best, --Andre LaFosse From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 16:27:16 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 3 15:03:19 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKBZW-0006EC-00; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 15:03:18 -0800 Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 17:56:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611032256.RAA25303@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: ..Javanese music and other repitition Resent-Message-ID: <"GHMUwD.A.3wF.rRSfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/973 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 15:03:18 -0800 X-UIDL: bedb952367c9efe2fe7a453ac14f3c60 Andre (west coast) said ...Javanese gamelan ensemble last spring here at school. >(Apparently the new gamelan which was obtained for the Javanese ensemble >at the beginning of last year is the finest one in North America!) > >There are some definite connections between that sort of music and >looping, I'd say, particularly since most of the Javanese music I played >consisted of what could be described in Western terms as one or two >(occasionally more) eight or sixteen-bar cycles repeated for a looooong >time. Andre (East c.) - this made me think of a favorite composer of mine - Steve Reich - he's often just lumped in with Philip Glass as a 'minimalist', but i think his work is also very textural and 'morphing' like gamelan can be.. he also incorporates a lot of stuff influenced by Afrikan drum patterns, which can be VERY loop-y the new Steve Reich album is great - it actually combines a lot of the media he's worked with - voices, strings, tuned percussion, keyboard-triggered samples, layered time shifts. check it out > From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 22:39:54 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 3 16:41:41 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKD6i-0001rt-00; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 16:41:40 -0800 Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 19:39:23 -0500 From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <961103193921_1880696611@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: see guitar player mag, etc Resent-Message-ID: <"jkeAdC.A.gqB.6tTfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/974 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 16:41:40 -0800 X-UIDL: a7396ebb90112930b9c9e7c46904d78b Andre (of the east), In your post you asked about any New Jersey loopists. I'm here in Southampton, n.j. Where are you located? Also: Bon just played here in Mt. Holly at the Down to Earth Coffeehouse in October. While I wasn't able to make this concert (had a gig in nearby Medford same night) I understand he plays here a couple times a year. I'll keep you posted. Any other Jersey loopists out there? ---Paul Mimlitsch (Stick Player) From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 22:39:56 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 3 17:55:04 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKEFj-0004Rl-00; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 17:55:03 -0800 Message-ID: <327D4C57.CE5@easyway.net> Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 20:52:23 -0500 From: Jonathan Brainin Organization: easyway.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: see guitar player mag, etc References: <961103193921_1880696611@emout13.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"F9nfhD.A.2FE.oyUfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/975 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 17:55:03 -0800 X-UIDL: 5dbf1342f10a57d24024a987b34e5d78 PMimlitsch@aol.com wrote: > > Andre (of the east), > In your post you asked about any New Jersey loopists. I'm here in > Southampton, n.j. Where are you located? Also: Bon just played here in Mt. > Holly at the Down to Earth Coffeehouse in October. While I wasn't able to > make this concert (had a gig in nearby Medford same night) I understand he > plays here a couple times a year. I'll keep you posted. Any other Jersey > loopists out there? > ---Paul Mimlitsch (Stick Player) Add another Jersey Looper(TM???). I live in South Orange. Oh, and I play Warr Guitar. Jonathan From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 22:39:59 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 3 19:27:10 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKFgs-0007jX-00; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 19:27:10 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 01:28:51 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell Resent-Message-ID: <"tWPygD.A.bIH.HHWfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/976 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 19:27:10 -0800 X-UIDL: 819beb912d1e6fd12e6242dd7e5b1ccc Certainly: one of the few female musicians that made it with her own compositions and playing, not just voice and beauty. My favourite work: Heijra Other such musicistas: Sweet Honey on the Rocks Ricky Lee Jones Badi Assad ... Matthias From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 01:09:21 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 00:14:36 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKKB2-0002ze-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 00:14:36 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 00:11:26 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Looper's Delight Digest!!!!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"STkx9C.A.jwC.lWafy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/977 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 00:14:36 -0800 X-UIDL: 197806d3d5d0abc9f401126a857cdc8b After listening to endless whining, after begging and harassing sysadmins, and after fighting off every conceivable technical hangup, I've finally got the digest version of Looper's Delight running smoothly!!! So for those of you using vt-100's or IBM PC jr's or whatever it is you read email with, you can subscribe to the digest version and get all the fabulous LD postings in a big lump every other day by sending mail to: Loopers-Delight-d-request@annihilist.com with the word "subscribe" in the subject and body. Please don't put anything else in the message body, the brain-dead scripts that process subscription requests get confused by sig files and whatnot. You'll probably want to unsubscibe from the regular list, do that by sending "unsubscribe" to: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Please don't post messages to the digest version, or that's the only place they'll be seen. Instead, post to the normal Looper's Delight list like you do now. The reply to: is set to go to the regular list, so it shouldn't be too complicated. Also, don't include the entire digest when replying! If you do, the next digest will look real familiar! Now, before you all jump ship, and to brew a bit of controversy, here are my digest opinions: 1. I don't like digests because they go way way way to slow for me. Conversation feels stifled because replies to posts come days or weeks later, and nobody remembers the context anymore. Bounce type lists are much more lively. 2. Replying to digest lists is a pain because it takes more editing. You can't just hit "r" and bang out a reply to the thing you are looking at. It's really a pain if you want to reply to several differnt things. 3. You can't read all the stuff with the same subject at once, you have to scroll through everything. 4. If you think you don't have time for all the mail on Looper's Delight, just wait till you have three or four 32k digests piled up. When are going to find time to plough through all of that? Never! And when you do you are way behind so you never join in the conversations that interest you. With a bounce list it's easy to glance at all the subjects and quickly read something that sounds interesting. And if you have a mail program that does filtering, you can just send it all off to it's own mailbox and check it when you take a break. 5. People don't get to know each other on digest lists, whereas bounce lists tend to inspire pretty good friendships. Looper's Delight has only been alive for a couple of months and we've already got cd projects and get-togethers happening! So there ya go. Food for thought. If you still feel the digest is the thing for you, by all means join it! You're the ones I made it for! You're not-terribly-humble list maintainer, kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 01:09:23 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 00:34:06 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKKTu-0003Xg-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 00:34:06 -0800 Date: 04 Nov 96 03:31:36 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: new standard tuning Message-ID: <961104083136_100041.247_JHB40-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"3tbctB.A.TPD.Cpafy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/978 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 00:34:06 -0800 X-UIDL: 8304448a51212a4c3c71fd49391a2896 about Fripp's "New Standard Tuning": yes, the bending possibilities are limited, but on the electric guitar you can always use a whammy bar to bend notes. This is not the same as bending a string with your finger but as Dave said - maybe the restriction forces you to leave the territory you're used to, and find something new. I had this musical crisis years ago when I was simply fed up with what I played. I really couldn't help but notice that my playing repeated itself, that I used other guitarists' phrases and chords, and I got bored to the point of almost giving up the guitar altogether. In my first Guitar Craft course in 1988, Fripp presented this different tuning he had found and switched to, abandoning the old tuning altogether for himself. I recognized that here was a chance for me to throw away all the learned stuff that bored me, and jump into unknown territory. Being a lazy person who doesn't practice a lot, it took me years to learn the new tuning, but I took the chance. I tuned my guitars to the new tuning, and never went back. It was a painful process at times because in the beginning I couldn't play *anything* meaningful - when in a session someone asked me to play a specific chord, I couldn't, or it took quite a while to figure it out, and I felt like a fool. For a long time, I was unable to play a solo because I hit wrong notes very often. Eventually I got familiar with the NST, and I'm happy with it. The whole playing and feeling of the guitar is different. There are undeniable limitations: No more bending; playing scales is more difficult because you have to stretch the fingers more; and some kinds of chords are impossible to play. On the other hand, the tuning gives you the chance to learn a new, fascinating, and equally expressive language, with a different way of phrasing, playing scales, and new kinds of chords. I'm not saying that the NST is a *better* tuning. Of course the traditional tuning is just as limitless as the NST. For guitarists who feel happy with the traditional tuning, and with their playing, there is no need to learn a new tuning, but for guitarists who feel stuck, the NST is a possible way out. -Michael P From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 01:09:25 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 00:34:11 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKKTy-0003Y1-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 00:34:10 -0800 Date: 04 Nov 96 03:31:39 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: The latest on the West Coast Summit Message-ID: <961104083138_100041.247_JHB40-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"kHEwrC.A.WPD.Cpafy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/979 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 00:34:10 -0800 X-UIDL: 1eb6ec8774b077f2cd2ffbbb3b4af907 > 4) Do you have interest in doing a (probably unrehearsed) live > collaboration with another loopist? Careful when you try this. I tried live and unrehearsed collaborations with a looping friend of mine, and the outcome wasn't always successful. Unless everybody plays very sparingly, chances of chaos and sound overload are good. I envy you! Michael in too-far-away-Germany From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 20:58:04 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 03:28:51 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKND0-00028f-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 03:28:50 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 12:26:33 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: MIDI Loops In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"rFNAV.A.cyB.AMdfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/981 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 03:28:50 -0800 X-UIDL: 6d14aa6292de4228150b523b688dbd14 Matthias, still curious, said: Oh I see, it like a digital effect for MIDI, not the sequencer itself you use. But can you control its parameters while playing so as to "freeze" a loop for soloing or have it fade out to renew it etc? Is there any option to multiply the delay time while playing? Well in fact it is an effect included in the sequencer (cubase 2.0 for Atari Computer) There is no way to multiply delay while playing but you can choose the midi channel for the loop, and anything can be changed on the fly (channel, delay time, repetitions, velocity: you can even have inverse velocity, no velocity difference, whatever..) Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 20:58:06 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 03:37:26 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKNLI-00036M-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 03:37:24 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 12:35:58 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"itCBUD.A.5xC.rUdfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/982 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 03:37:24 -0800 X-UIDL: 804188d52a1daa628ad62be0ba7c184c On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Matthias Grob wrote: > Certainly: one of the few female musicians that made it with her own > compositions and playing, not just voice and beauty. > My favourite work: Heijra > > Other such musicistas: > Sweet Honey on the Rocks > Ricky Lee Jones > Badi Assad > ... > > > Matthias Micheal Hedges sayed somewhere that he learnt everything as far as open tuning are concerned, with Hejira, so..... From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 20:59:38 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 10:11:14 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKTUK-0007OS-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:11:08 -0800 Message-ID: <327DDC40.2D65@interaccess.com> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 12:06:28 +0000 From: James Coker X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: MIDI Loops References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"R9rabC.A.WcG.gBjfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/994 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:11:08 -0800 X-UIDL: 7cb792335d0840ddc97942c07a81bbdc Matthias Grob wrote: > > Since you seem to understand programming: > How far away from a handy looping set are the comercial sequencers? > Which comes closest? > Should we try to convince one to include our trip? > Its a composition tool, after all... Not difficult at all. Many are already adding inline midi fx now, with delays (too short though, and no feedback), and transpositions. Perhaps pinging the sales reps will help with the necessary details. What I'd like in particular is that Digidesign add additive-cycle- recording to their DAE software so one can loop while recording, or at least if they'd publish the interface specs to their drivers so others can. > > Jim again, full of valuable experience: > >One can do feedback using Max, but the "code" to do that > >has to manually remove notes when their volume (midi velocity) reaches > >zero, otherwise the delay line can end up with a large number of > >notes that are not played, ultimately slowing down the system. > > Understandable. So you created that code? For the rest of us? Well, it's been a few months since I looked at it, and I believe it was in a bit of a mess.... I may be able to dig out the essential delay component in the next few weeks. IRCAM (www.ircam.fr) used to have a big max site, but I can't seem to find the max stuff anymore, maybe the Opcode site has replaced it. jim From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 20:58:28 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 08:14:58 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKRfs-0006o4-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 08:14:56 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 08:12:57 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: MIDI Loops Resent-Message-ID: <"oAjLL.A.wLG.AWhfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/989 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 08:14:56 -0800 X-UIDL: 2c97558a333be3c1c934acf00a2e926a >>Last I heard, there was a substantial >>repository of Max objects programmed by Max enthusiasts, but I forgot the >>ftp location. Does anyone know the address of this site?? I'd be interested to check it out! - chris --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 20:58:09 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 06:11:44 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKPke-0001Ly-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 06:11:44 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:09:17 -0500 From: "S. Patrick Hickey" Message-Id: <199611041409.JAA03858@nielsenmedia.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: new standard tuning Resent-Message-ID: <"MIl7cC.A.6MB.skffy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/983 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 06:11:44 -0800 X-UIDL: 997fda75c3c8fb326e29adccc0e19834 In other words, RF's NST is another modified violin-based tuning: violin: G D A E NST:(C) G D A E (G) I think NST would have been perfect fifths if the string technology and instrument capabilities would have supported it. I think this is not dissimilar to the tuning of a viola-de-gamba, a fretted 6-string bowed viola-like instrument. Pat Hickey ***SPH brzrkr@nielsenmedia.com From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 20:58:11 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 06:33:55 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKQ65-00024u-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 06:33:54 -0800 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9611040931.ZM4349@sparc.arts.rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:31:43 -0500 In-Reply-To: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) "Re: Joni Mitchell" (Nov 3, 7:27pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 06sep94) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"k4HcT.A.J2B.k5ffy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/984 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 06:33:54 -0800 X-UIDL: 49f6dee2f26333dea74fb366aa93df3a On Nov 3, 7:27pm, Matthias Grob wrote: > Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell > Certainly: one of the few female musicians that made it with her own > compositions and playing, not just voice and beauty. Joni is wundergruvie, but Matthias that is one *fucked* up thing to say. > Badi Assad ooh, "Bajee" is bad ya'll. ever checked her out? I suppose Matthias has probably seen her live being in Brazil. Maybe her brothers also? Any news you might offer on Badi's progress? collier From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 20:58:14 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 07:00:14 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKQVZ-00031D-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 07:00:13 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:55:54 -0500 From: RA336@aol.com Message-ID: <961104095552_1449795181@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: see guitar player mag, etc Resent-Message-ID: <"wBdMV.A.ytC.8Qgfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/985 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 07:00:13 -0800 X-UIDL: a7b820e0b32927140318a1292faf725e andre wrote: > ps -anyone out there have a MIDI MITIGATOR - yas, I been using one for about nine years for to control all my midi gear... very useful little item and flexible; not without it's own set of quirks, but cool. speaking of features in guitar player; anyone see the little blurb on my record (produced by Torn) in the sept issue?... the entire cd was built on guitar loops mangled and enhanced in various ways... we had fun and looped for days.. best to all, robby aceto From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 20:58:15 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 07:15:58 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKQkn-0003b0-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 07:15:57 -0800 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:18:34 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: New Joni Resent-Message-ID: <"89QCvC.A.CSD.Shgfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/986 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 07:15:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 4e920e96328a193d940d67984dcde4ba I have read an interview with Joni ... she is using the vg8 alot and it has helped redefine her live music in that she is able to create her esoteric tunings quickly ... Paul From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 20:58:20 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 07:25:41 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKQuB-00048e-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 07:25:39 -0800 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:27:31 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: see guitar player mag, etc Resent-Message-ID: <"-jFbTD.A.BtD.tpgfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/987 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 07:25:39 -0800 X-UIDL: eea8c78f0afd968636c8b2f37ae936fd >Andre (of the east), > In your post you asked about any New Jersey loopists. I'm here in >Southampton, n.j. Where are you located? Also: Bon just played here in Mt. >Holly at the Down to Earth Coffeehouse in October. While I wasn't able to >make this concert (had a gig in nearby Medford same night) I understand he >plays here a couple times a year. I'll keep you posted. Any other Jersey >loopists out there? > ---Paul Mimlitsch (Stick Player) I am a loopist, experimental guitarist here in Delaware about 45 min from philly Paul From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 20:58:24 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 07:34:29 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKR2i-0004Wk-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 07:34:28 -0800 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:36:56 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Loopers CD Resent-Message-ID: <"fTHmsB.A.IJE.eygfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/988 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 07:34:28 -0800 X-UIDL: 9cff9cb3525d064886bc813c5f517f29 > Hi all > > I would like to add my name to the CD list... > > > joe > > > >At 11:33 AM 10/31/96 -0500, you wrote: >>>>Adding the people who specifically reacted to the CD proposal, my count >>>>looks >>>>like this (quite possible that I missed someone - please raise your hand!) >>>> >>>>Andre LaFosse >>>>Dave Trenkel >>>>David Kirkdorffer >>>>David Orton >>>>Doug Michael >>>>Jon Morris >>>>Louis Collier Hyams >>>>Matthias Grob >>>>Michael Hughes >>>>Michael Peters >>>>Patrick Smith >>>>Ray Peck >>>>Ted R. Killian >>>>Todd Madson >>> >> >>I am interested as well. Of course I will be listening for additional >info....... >> >> >>Steve Murrell >> >> >> >> >> I would also like to add my name to the CD list Paul From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 20:58:29 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 08:24:37 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKRpE-0007N1-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 08:24:36 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 08:20:18 -0800 From: patelj@std.teradyne.com (Josh Patel) Message-Id: <199611041620.IAA01018@gunhawk.std.teradyne.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: MIDI Loops X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ECRTKB.A.0uG.Ighfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/990 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 08:24:36 -0800 X-UIDL: 2283276d2dcc352ed092bf230505cc47 > > >>Last I heard, there was a substantial > >>repository of Max objects programmed by Max enthusiasts, but I forgot the > >>ftp location. > > Does anyone know the address of this site?? I'd be interested to check it out! > I don't know about any ftp sites, but Opcode has some: http://www.opcode.com/downloads/max/patches Josh From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 20:58:32 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 09:12:54 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKSZx-0002Kb-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:12:53 -0800 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9611041210.ZM1517@wolf0.vlsc.rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 12:10:55 -0500 In-Reply-To: Paolo Valladolid "Re: Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time" (Oct 21, 4:07pm) References: <199610212305.QAA14707@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"-cmb7.A.4FC.vOify"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/991 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:12:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 8ff1ef2859da3e19a86e624194c47b5c On Oct 21, 4:07pm, Paolo Valladolid wrote: > This looks very interesting; it reminds me of a videotape Prof. George > Lewis showed us of an Indonesian performer who triggered samples of his own > voice himself relating his own life story as he danced. Do you plan to > have your performances videotaped? hi, loopers... I just got back and have a ton of L-D messages, so bear/bare wid me, please. I have a feeling I'll be commenting on a portion of the 100+ messages. George Lewis? hmmh... george, ... you know what? If he's the trombonist/looper then he's coming here for a residency or something, and he's been here before... I know very little about him at this point. I have heard of the Indonesian performer that you mention. what do ya'll know bout george? the show was video taped. > Folks I have seen who have dared to perform interactive computer music > live seemed to prefer Powerbooks instead of a full blown desktop system > because laptops fold up nicely and are easily transported. There was a > performer from Mills College who had a nice velvet-glove-to-computer kind > of interactive setup. I should have asked her and George what measures > they take to minimize possible glitches in setup and performance. there are several performanceelectronique' folk out there using laptops. wish I had one also... letitia sonami(sp) is a tough cookie(and sexy as hell). she does many glove/sensor type performances. > No offense to David Jaffe, but for one of his performances, he just popped > in a tape and we had to sit there and listen to it. To me this was not dartmouth and nyu did concerts like this. their composers actually sat in the audience a fell asleep on their own pieces. any idea what that commentary might be indicating? > as interesting as watching him on MIDI violin and his partner on Radio Drum > wreaking computer-enhanced electronic havoc. I guess I'm of the old school > mentality where I expect from a live performance certain elements that can't > be gotten from listening to the same piece from some recording. one of most common questions/comments from our audiences on the tour was about the justifications of performing electronic music live. this initially caught me by surprise, then I realized that I agreed. there were a copla pieces in the tour using max/synths that were unseen. the audience had no visual cues to what was going on... ".....so boring, so boring..." luckily that wasn't my pieces. collier From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 16:26:59 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 3 14:14:20 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKAo7-0004El-00; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 14:14:19 -0800 Message-ID: <327E23B3.4864@erols.com> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 17:11:15 +0000 From: Michael Preston Reply-To: michpres@erols.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: hellos; loop and improv. theory X-URL: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"beFEvC.A.D6D.ajRfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/969 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 14:14:19 -0800 X-UIDL: afaf1f7c20ee19ace8117ec747a9b629 Hi! Uh, all you loopers are an interesting and informative, and collegial bunch. I'm very happy to have stumbled into this site. I love to make musical loops, or engage in any other kind of recursive musical activity. I can't remember who it was, but someone in your archive of letters put out a discussion-widening call for some general/philosophical loop theory references. Here are a couple that I think are interesting: "Circles" by Ralph Waldo Emerson ( I think its in a book called something like "The collected Essays of Ralph Waldo Emerson: Volume 2"); "The Creative Circle: Sketches on the Natural History of Circularity," by Francisco Varela, in a book edited by Paul Watzlawick called "The Invented Reality: Contributions to Constructivism." Varela is co-inventor, with Humberto Maturana, of a big idea called autopoiesis. Maturana and Varela are some of the philosophical founders of an interesting field called enactive cognitive science. I have found the work of Martin Heidegger relevant to expanding my understanding of any improvisational activity. See his "Being and Time," especially the passages on "thrownness." There is a great book by Hubert Dreyfus which clearly comments on Heidegger's Being and Time, called "Being-in-the-World." Dreyfus' book helps cut through some of the opacity of Heidegger's. Another good book on improvisation is guitarist Derek Humphrey's "On Improvisation" (I think that's what it is called.) All these references are sent in the spirit of sharing in this loopy community process. Thanks for all of your teachings. Michael Preston From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 21:00:56 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 19:09:50 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKbtd-0003kI-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:09:49 -0800 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9611041214.ZM1521@wolf0.vlsc.rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 12:14:50 -0500 In-Reply-To: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) "Re: "This thing should not exist!" or: Pain through Quadrophonics" (Oct 21, 6:30pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: lucier Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"vLNgNB.A.nZD.V-qfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1012 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:09:49 -0800 X-UIDL: 3e36c6cbd82db9d11b4d3003ee645bcd On Oct 21, 6:30pm, Dave Trenkel wrote: thanks for explaining the Lucier bit. and my spelling is of course really bad(thanks for the correction too) we're currently authoring a cdrom with alvin. my roommate went to do some interviews with him yesterday. I'll let you guys know about the progress of the cd "if'n yer intursted" > Indeed. Alvin Lucier's "I am Sitting in a Room" has got to be one of the > looping classics. It consists of Lucier sitting in a room with 2 distant > mics, 2 tape decks, and speakers. The recording begins with Lucier verbally > describing the process of the piece, which is that he is recording his > voice, and after recording, he will play that back through the speakers, > and record that through the mics onto the 2nd tape deck. This continues for > about 25 generations. At first, you just hear reverberation of the rooms > acoustics as he replays the tape into the room. Gradually, certain > frequencies begin to stand out, and by the middle of the 2nd side of the > lp, you start hearing melodies and textures, while the words are no longer > distinguishable. It's a fascinating piece, both for the process and the > musical results. > >-- End of excerpt from Dave Trenkel From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 20:59:43 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 11:01:34 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKUGz-00040S-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:01:25 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 96 10:26:17 MST Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: From: "Bret Moreland" Subject: echoplex help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ISuxbC.A.9fD.Mzjfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/997 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:01:25 -0800 X-UIDL: 62fe28c81ccb8894c59aa7f1a3fc5d8a I would be most appreciative if one of you would contact me about hardware rework/fixes for the Echoplex. Mike Lyon of Oberheim has not responded to several Emails, for over a week. He had promised to send me what I need, I asked when he would send them, then no reply since. My problems: 1. Loop start point moving when using nextloop. 2. Sound becoming distorted after loop repeated for several days. Please Email me directly bret_moreland@maxtor.com. thanks, bret From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 21:00:52 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 18:12:53 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKb0R-0000D0-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:12:47 -0800 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9611041232.ZM1553@wolf0.vlsc.rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 12:32:03 -0500 In-Reply-To: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) "Re: When? Where?" (Oct 23, 11:20am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: When? Where? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"glV5C.A.rpG.PBqfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1011 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 18:12:47 -0800 X-UIDL: f3e36511e76ad37cb3d9e3d3646322be On Oct 23, 11:20am, Matthias wrote: > Subject: Re: When? Where? > >matthias... sukandar told me he just ran across rolf recently for pickups. did > >rolf ever get the email bug? > > wazdat? > > > >-- End of excerpt from Matthias ok, sorry. has rolf ever begun to use email? I'd like to contact him, but due to "keine geld" for the telephono and such, I can't just call him up. I'd like to see the paradis products and possibly use them or proto them collier From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 20:58:38 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 09:45:52 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKT5n-00050w-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:45:47 -0800 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9611041241.ZM1573@wolf0.vlsc.rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 12:41:29 -0500 In-Reply-To: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) "Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD?" (Oct 23, 11:23am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"ykpeqB.A.gXE.rrify"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/992 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:45:47 -0800 X-UIDL: a971a95c20d817259c7e653bd172c7a1 > I would like to have a spiral in the background. > Anyone knows how to create a spiral on the puter? > > Matthias what kinda spiral do yah want? QED(quite easily done) From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 20:58:40 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 09:50:03 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKT9p-0005OR-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:49:57 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:43:55 MST Subject: echoplex help Message-ID: <19961104.104440.22383.0.slot_head@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.15 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1,3,5-14 From: slot_head@juno.com (bret w moreland) Resent-Message-ID: <"wxomeC.A.AoE.Wuify"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/993 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 09:49:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 8425c092ae9da6a962ed2e89c288b907 I would be most appreciative if one of you would contact me about hardware rework/fixes for the Echoplex. Mike Lyon of Oberheim has not responded to several Emails, for over a week. He had promised to send me what I need, I asked when he would send them, then no reply since. My problems: 1. Loop start point moving when using nextloop. 2. Sound becoming distorted after loop repeated for several days. Please Email me directly bret_moreland@maxtor.com, or slot_head@juno.com thanks, bret From ???@??? Sun Nov 03 16:27:11 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 3 14:57:57 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKBUK-0005vR-00; Sun, 3 Nov 1996 14:57:56 -0800 Message-ID: <327E2E43.5DF1@erols.com> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 17:56:19 +0000 From: Michael Preston Reply-To: michpres@erols.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: improv. reference correction X-URL: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wgeJj.A.3fF.9MSfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/972 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 14:57:56 -0800 X-UIDL: b4fa6094a87642dd8ea8abdc24d688ca Oops. The book is called "Musical Improvisation," and the author is Derek Bailey, not Derek Humphrey. Another good one I remember reading bits of, a while back, is David Sudnow's "Ways of the Hand: The Organization of Improvised Conduct." Michael Preston From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 20:59:39 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 10:13:13 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKTWG-0007Ze-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:13:08 -0800 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9611041309.ZM1615@wolf0.vlsc.rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:09:01 -0500 In-Reply-To: The Man Himself "Compilation CD suggestion" (Oct 26, 5:46pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Compilation CD suggestion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"qTae.A.4yG.XFjfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/995 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:13:08 -0800 X-UIDL: 49b5a73750d1cf8f541d57c155234e16 hey all, I kinda second the idea from andre' on private burnings... I have a cd burner, as does some others on the list. I've done plenty of dexktop cd projects without going too much in the hole... we could get good deals on bulk cds... collier From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 20:59:41 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 10:58:40 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKUEC-0003kd-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:58:32 -0800 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9611041355.ZM1681@wolf0.vlsc.rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 13:55:37 -0500 In-Reply-To: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) "Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD?" (Oct 31, 9:22am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"c7BZKD.A.eTD.Gxjfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/996 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 10:58:32 -0800 X-UIDL: fd4c776ded88c7b80968a4b6164ea887 concerning loop guitar material... for the cd I am a "use the tool that works" blendo artist. so, you don't have to count my pieces as guitar loops, cause I many other objects. collier From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 20:59:57 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 11:34:57 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKUnJ-0006oR-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:34:49 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:09:10 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: FAQ as such Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-1677489048-628158187-847134509=:18349" Content-ID: Resent-Message-ID: <"1kfQX.A.r_F.cQkfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1000 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:34:49 -0800 X-UIDL: cc3c3a99a34d8c83ff77ea53cc35c341 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: This is an admittedly highly shoddy start of an Echoplex FAQ. I've gone through my archive of mail that Kim has sent either to me or via the digest and tried to compile it here. There are very possibly other problems which are covered elsewhere that I don't have archived, so anyone else who has some FAQ material in their repositories is encouraged to contribute. Finally, I've tagged on a few unanswered questions, mostly culled from recent posts I've seen floating around the list. --Andre Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII; NAME=faq21 Content-ID: Content-Description: THE LOOPCOPY PARAMETER Ah, the good old LoopCopy parameter. The parameter itself does nothing in the current software. What happened there was, the ship date was looming, the front panels were already done, and the LoopCopy parameter had not been implemented because we hadn't yet agreed on what it was supposed to do. So we left if for a future upgrade. HOWEVER, loop copying is still quite possible! Its done with what we call "cross functions," where ending one function with a different button press gives you a special function. In the case of copying audio it's the Next-Multiply combination when SwitchQuant is on. You can also copy the time base only with Next-Insert. You do it like this: Set up multiple loops with the MoreLoops parameter. Turn SwitchQuant on. Record a loop in Loop 1. At some point before the end of the loop, press NextLoop. You will see the "ooo" display, which means the function is being quantized to the end of the current cycle time. In the manual, Warren calls this the "Lame Duck Period." If you do nothing more, the echoplex will switch to Loop 2 when it reaches the end of the current cycle of Loop 1. We are going to do something though, since we have several special funcitons available during this waiting period, one of which is LoopCopy. So: While the "ooo" display is on, press Multiply. Now when you reach the end of Loop 1, the echoplex will jump to Loop 2 and begin copying the audio from Loop 1. You will essentially be in the multiply function, with Loop 1's audio being multiplied in Loop 2. While the loop is copying, overdub is essentially on, so any playing you do is added to the loop. (just like in multiply) Repetitions of Loop 1 will continue to be added to Loop 2 until you end the function. (also like multiply) End the copy by pressing multiply at some point before the end of the last repetition you want. The Echoplex will round off to the end of the cycle and begin looping the copied audio and any overdubs you made. (again, just like multiply) This seems a bit complicated when written out, but its actually pretty easy and intuitive to use. I use it all the time, and its one of my favorite Echoplex functions. I can record 1 bar of music in loop 1, Press Next-Multiply to start copying it in loop 2, overdub a melody while 4 repetitions of the loop are copied, and end with another press of multiply, all in just 3 button presses! You can also choose the loop to copy to by pressing NextLoop several times before pressing multiply. So to copy Loop 1 to Loop 4, I would press Next-Next-Next-Multiply. And it all happens seemlessly to an observer, so its very usable in musical situations. Give it a try! This is actually explained in the manual. Its non-intuitively located in the description of the SwitchQuant parameter. In the new upgrade, the mythical LoopCopy parameter has finally become real. Its function is similar to AutoRecord, where the Echoplex automatically copies the loop when you switch to a reset loop. The parameter values are off, sound, and time. Its quite useful in some situations, although I actually prefer the old way most of the time. ----------------------- THE INTERNAL COMPRESSOR Compressor?! Well, there sort of is, but not really. We have a hardware limiter in there, but it never actually worked right, so we didn't bother to tell anyone about it. I think it might come on at some point, probably keeping an already distorting signal from distorting even more. I think I know a way to modify it so that it does work. I figured that out shortly before I left g-wiz, since we were planning a minor hardware upgrade at the time to fix emi problems. (I don't think that upgrade has been implemented, and probably never will.) It's not a real easy mod, so it's probably not worth the trouble. I'll post it on the web site some day for all you echoplex hardware hackers. As far as input sensitivity, there are some resistor value changes that adjust the input and output gains that are worth doing. Definitely an easier mod. Basically reduces the input gain so that it is easier to adjust, and increases the output gain so that you can get signal levels up to +4dbu. ----------------------- NOISEGATE AND THRESHOLD The parameter called "threshold" is only for starting a record when you actually start playing. The noisegate is different. It's on all the time and has nothing to do with the "threshold" setting. The noisegate is there to make Undo a much more usable function, so that each press of Undo takes away a real overdub rather than some unintentional noise. It also keeps the echoplex from squandering its memory. Matthias and I have discussed ways to make the noisegate smarter, as well as adding a parameter for it. Its tricky, since the user can cause himself troubles with the undo function without realizing it. --------------------------------------------------- FEEDBACK DEGENERATION WHEN CONTROLS ARE SET TO 100% This is a problem that was definitely there on prototypes, and at some point it was fixed. I have to get Matthias' help here, because some of it was a software problem, and I'm not sure when it got fixed. I know that with the mythical upgrade, this doesn't happen. Thing is, it doesn't necessarily happen with the shipping software either. My uncertainty is because I think there were several different problems which caused this. One of them may have been the thermal/cut-the-ic-pin problem. That particular chip handles both the front panel switches and the feedback knob, so I think that the same sort of conditions that cause the Undo button to freak out also might cause loop degrading. I never had a chance to verify that, so I don't know, but cutting that pin certainly won't hurt and might fix this for you. The other bit of uncertainty is that there actually was a software upgrade very early in the echoplex production. You can see the software version when you turn the power on, the current software will show LD3 3.2. The first 60-100 units had an earlier version, LD3 3.0. Unfortunately, I don't remember what was fixed in this upgrade. Could have been the loop degradation, but I don't know. ------------------------------- THE THERMAL/IC PIN MODIFICATION There was a small design error that caused strange behaviors when the Echoplex was hot. The usual symptom was that pressing the Undo button would execute Record instead. Basically, a pin on one of the IC's was connected to +5 volts when it shouldn't have been connected to anything. This didn't have any effect normally, but when the unit got hot you would see the problem. Cutting the pin fixes the problem, and the Echoplex works fine at much higher temperatures. Newer units should have this fixed. I don't know which serial numbers would have the mod, but probably any unit newer than 9 months. You can do the mod yourself pretty easily if you feel comfortable working on electronics. You just need to cut pin 5 of U12, the IC with part number ADC0804. If you are facing the front of the unit, pin 5 would be the 5th pin from the left end of the chip, on the front panel side. If you don't think you can do it yourself, any competent electronics tech should be able to handle it. --------------------------- PROBLEMS STILL AWAITING EXPLANATION/CLARIFICATION -- "My first problem with the Echoplex was that static on the foot pedal would cause the loop contents to be deleted. Kim has suggested some grounding approachs that I suspect will help this." -- Lately, my problem has been the start point of the loops moving when I use next loop a lot. After creating 2 loops, and enhancing them with multiply and overdub, I nextloop from one multiple in loop 1 to a single multiple in loop 2, and repeat. Eventually the start point of these loops move, and I have to reset the start points manually." -- Sound becoming distorted after loop repeated for several days. -- Echoplex switching into mute mode sporadically after executing LoopCopy (cross-function). From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 20:59:46 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 11:27:24 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKUg2-0006Ci-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:27:18 -0800 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9611041421.ZM1703@wolf0.vlsc.rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:21:35 -0500 In-Reply-To: The Man Himself "More on Indonesian music" (Nov 2, 2:49pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: More on Indonesian music Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"GvpvOC.A.TcF.xJkfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/998 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:27:18 -0800 X-UIDL: ac1a153ad2d46c24f6578a54b598bcb7 On Nov 2, 2:49pm, The Man Himself wrote: > Subject: More on Indonesian music the monkey chant as along the same traditions of of some hindu and south east asian works such as "Ramakien" or ramayana and many others. one of the primary differences is in balinese presentation... wild! this types of works are stories told-myths- creation of the world or the like and are basically improvised with fantastic amounts of drama and enthusiasm. I've seen the monkey chant done in what amounts to three rounds or something with a lead story teller. ever heard of hanuman the white monkey? collier From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 20:59:56 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 11:31:11 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKUjj-0006W7-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:31:07 -0800 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9611041423.ZM1707@wolf0.vlsc.rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:23:32 -0500 In-Reply-To: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) "Re: More on Indonesian music" (Nov 2, 4:20pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: More on Indonesian music Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"vLoNbC.A.0nF.2Lkfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/999 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:31:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 59d08555fff199fc5e8605f66d1c6b32 andre' you guys had a badass(read this as: completely superwonderful) balinese dance teacher at calarts the last time I was there... is she still there? collier From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 21:00:58 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 19:21:35 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKc50-0004HP-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:21:34 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 21:29:19 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Tape Idea Resent-Message-ID: <"RONTXC.A.JfD.r_qfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1013 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 19:21:34 -0800 X-UIDL: 8c576a965436aa11a07d47d50523fb2a Hi, I'm on an ambient music mailing list which has a group of musicians who circulate tapes to let one another know what the others are up to. Due to lack of time I've not joined their circle yet, but I'm very interested to hear what others are doing musically on this list. In a nutshell all the interested parties signup with a person who administers the circle. A tape is stated with one piece by one member and then mailed to the next person in the circle. This person listens( maybe evens dubs), adds a piece of their own and forwards, etc. Different cassettes are started by diferent individuals and all are urgerd to send on their tape within a week of receiving it. Seems as if four tapes were in circulation at one time. If their is an interest in how the anbient group pulls this off, I can forward a copy of their guidelines and if someone wishes to set up the site on the Web that shows where tapes are and where they are heading next, we 're off and running. Peace, Patrick From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 21:00:01 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 11:49:15 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKV1C-00009o-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:49:10 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199611041941.LAA10993@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: MIDI Loops To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:41:37 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <199611030854.AAA29355@pure.PureAtria.COM> from "Ray Peck" at Nov 3, 96 00:54:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ay2RFC.A.36G.Dckfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1001 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:49:10 -0800 X-UIDL: 1fdeef1b3c58b611e172fa57bd34ebd7 > >I really enjoyed the flexibility of Max combined with the portability of > >my Powerbook. About the only drawback was that the resultant sounds > >lacked the complexity of "real" strings. > > The folks at CCRMA claim that one DSP board driven with SynthBuilder > can run a physical model of a 6-string electric guitar. Given that > David Jaffe is working on it, and given what he did with stringed > instrument synthesis 10 years ago, this should be incredible. If > you've got an old PC laying around this might be worth looking into > (the PC doesn't do the processing, so a 486 should do it). David told us a bit about this board. However, the drawback is that one cannot use this board with a portable computer setup. Now if the CCRMA folks were working on a SynthBuilder-type card that fits in a PC card slot... Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 21:00:09 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 12:21:08 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKVW4-0002iy-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 12:21:04 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199611041948.LAA11058@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: MIDI Loops To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 11:48:03 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "Matthias Grob" at Nov 2, 96 08:37:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pftpHC.A.kYC.c-kfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1004 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 12:21:04 -0800 X-UIDL: 685aec1dd2447c858b4665ead2c82cf0 > >> Paolo helps: > >> >I used an Opcode Max patch that had eight delay lines, each of which > >> >pitch-shifted to a different interval and each of which had it's own > >> >"seed" number to multiply with the input MIDI velocity value to produce > >> >a delay time. > >> > >> So you choose any time into which delay you want to load and can change its > >> "seed" number and Feedback while playing and stay synced between all delay > >> lines, if you want. Yes? > > > >With my particular patch, no, but Max would let you add whatever "objects" > >you need to do the job. For example, a fader object to adjust the > >"seed" for each delay line could be connected. > > Yes, I see. And then another object measures time between two Controller > comands and feeds "seed" so you can control it by taping, right? Yes, Max offers several objects that have the capability of measuring the time between two successive controller messages. > >If you fail to find a Max > >object in the included object library supplied with Max to do a particular > >job, you can write up your own in C. > > Me? No. Did you? Does it require additional compiling soft or licence? I have not written my own, but my requirements were relatively simple. I know of an entire intepretive language encoded into a single Max object (the Pyrite object) because someone felt he needed it. I don't recall the licensing details, however. Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 21:00:06 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 12:14:48 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKVPa-0002Cf-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 12:14:22 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199611042010.MAA11408@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: MIDI Loops To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 12:10:03 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <199611041941.LAA10993@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> from "Paolo Valladolid" at Nov 4, 96 11:41:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"hAYxHD.A.FwB.02kfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1002 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 12:14:22 -0800 X-UIDL: 4e8d245ec0ef6e1efdd362c20e4936f1 > >What I gather from the community of interactive computer music folks is > >that Max is a great tool for prototyping interactive music systems. Some of > >them then go and program their systems in a faster language like Forth, > >after using Max to quickly build a prototype. > > > >The Powerbook is nice for its portability, which is a big plus for live > >performance. Last I heard, all five members of the computer music band > >The Hub had switched to Powerbooks as the computer of choice for live > >computer music because of the portability and the ability to run Max. > > Is this an exeption or a market (soon)? Certainly Max is great for > prototyping but will non engineer musicians use it commonly in the future? Max was designed to be used by non-engineers, so there are a fair number of users with no engineering background at all. You put together a Max program (which we call a "patch") using a graphical interface; you select the objects you want then you drag them around with a mouse and draw lines to hook them up. I think Opcode still considers Max too esoteric to port to the Windows platform, though. Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 21:00:07 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 12:16:04 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKVR7-0002Kd-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 12:15:57 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961104201528.00b680c4@pureatria.com> X-Sender: sechevar@pureatria.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 12:15:28 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Sean Echevarria Subject: Re: The latest on the West Coast Summit Resent-Message-ID: <"hdfGbD.A.f7B.94kfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1003 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 12:15:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 07e1d18bd4aeb3efafa74d4b66655954 At 01:44 pm 11/3/96 -0800, you wrote: >The current roster as I see it reads as follows: > >Dave Trenkel (current holder of the long-distance award) >Sean Echevarria Actually, I won't be participating as a performer but will give whatever assistance I can if it happens in the bay area. I haven't been here too long so I can't make any recommendations as far as places go. I do recommend that regardless of where the event takes place, that it be videotaped for those who can't make it. Sean (from the east coast but now on the west coast version) From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 21:00:10 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 12:58:22 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKW64-0005a8-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 12:58:16 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 14:55:14 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner X-Sender: dstagner@icarus.icarus.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: new standard tuning In-Reply-To: <961104083136_100041.247_JHB40-1@CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"nnz1GC.A.ACF.Phlfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1005 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 12:58:16 -0800 X-UIDL: d7bf6a96f0f2fb921a8ca348d87af47d I find it kind of interesting that people would switch from one tuning to another (standard to New Standard), yet remain basically monogamous in their choice. I use a number of different tunings, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. Part of the motivation of NST is to break out of the rut, but I'd be afraid of falling into a new one. It seems to me you could beat the bending problems simply by using lighter strings. It's not likely you could find a set of off-the-shelf strings that would work well with NST anyway, given its octave-and-a-fifth reach across the neck. I have a lot of trouble bending myself, because I use medium-gauge strings on an acoustic guitar. Forget breaking... I just don't have enough hand strength to get more than 2 semitones with any sort of stability and accuracy. This doesn't mean I've abandoned bending entirely, though. I just use it differently. Quarter-tone bends for shading can be just as effective as big bluesy bends, maybe more so. And there's always slide, or a whammy bar. And, to keep this on topic... those little quarter tone bends can be used very effectively with looping. I like playing the same slightly bent note several times in a loop, dubbing over and over with different shadings and emphasis. It can make a very striking chorus, especially if the note stands by itself rather than being buried in a run. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 21:00:19 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 16:58:53 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKZqq-0001gj-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:58:48 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199611050052.QAA14586@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: New Joni To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:52:55 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <199611021743.MAA23539@shell.monmouth.com> from "andre" at Nov 2, 96 12:43:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"YJPfv.A.iJB.8_ofy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1006 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:58:48 -0800 X-UIDL: 756afdf089fc7003dda5b38b9ef731f9 > but here's my question - does anybody know anything else about her upcomnig > new album with a VG-8 heavily featured???!!! This much i know: she has one, > she loves it, and being an alternate tuning pioneer, she's waited years for > something like this... I hear it will have some scary noises on it too, > coutesy of virtual modeling... I read about this in Roland's magazine. She reportedly has developed over 70 different tunings over the course of her career. The VG8 simplifies her performances considerably. Whether the VG8 accurately models combinations of guitar construction, pickups, mic placement, amps, etc. of course has been debated (though to me the question is irrelevant). But I'd say it's worth getting just for the ability to switch between any tuning you like. For example, make a loop in standard tuning, switch to Crafty tuning to loop Frippy lines, switch to your favorite open tuning for your hot slide lines, etc. Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 21:00:20 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 17:01:57 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKZto-0001wy-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:01:52 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199611050059.QAA14661@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: MIDI Loops To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 16:59:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <961102092013_100041.247_JHB78-1@CompuServe.COM> from "Michael Peters" at Nov 2, 96 04:20:13 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"CZ9cwB.A.8qB.OGpfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1007 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:01:52 -0800 X-UIDL: 2e280fe4f398367cf2be329768f9e16b > haven't heard of it but it sounds *very* interesting. It's probably for the > Mac, right? Is there a program like Max or JamFactory for the PC at all, or > would one have to buy a Mac to do fancy Midi stuff? Last I heard, Opcode felt there was not enough of a demand in the Windows market to make a Windows version of Max. Some alternatives: 1. Code your own. I remember someone in the rec.music.computer newsgroup was working on a Max-like program for DOS or something like that. This might become easier once MIDI capabilities are added to Java. 2. Get NeXTStep for Intel processors, then try getting the NeXT version of Max. This might be difficult, however, as the Next version is owned by IRCAM. You might have to contact IRCAM directly about this. 3. Get a used 68K-based Mac. Might actually cost less than getting NextStep and upgrading your hardware to accommodate it. > A friend of mine saw Steve Hillage in concert recently. He used a notebook or > Powerbook but my friend didn't see what he did. What kind of things can you > do with a Powerbook in concerts? Could one do similar things with a Notebook > running Windows? > > -Michael P As far as MIDI is concerned, anything you can do with a desktop computer, you can do with a Powerbook or other laptop. Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 21:00:45 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 17:51:26 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKafi-00062C-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:51:22 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:33:32 -0800 Message-Id: <199611050133.RAA14188@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: Re: new standard tuning Resent-Message-ID: <"DSk7-B.A.4rE.Brpfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1008 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:51:22 -0800 X-UIDL: 8b924557323c39b733230170a65284d2 At 09:09 AM 11/4/96 -0500, you wrote: > >In other words, RF's NST is another modified violin-based tuning: > > violin: G D A E > NST:(C) G D A E (G) > >I think NST would have been perfect fifths if the string technology >and instrument capabilities would have supported it. > >I think this is not dissimilar to the tuning of a viola-de-gamba, a >fretted 6-string bowed viola-like instrument. > >Pat Hickey ***SPH >brzrkr@nielsenmedia.com > > certainly! or the middle strings of a mandolin... cheers dave at seventeen 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * I'll be downstairs if you need me. I'll still be * * downstairs if you DON'T need me. * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 21:00:40 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 17:46:22 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKaam-0005al-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:46:16 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:36:04 -0800 Message-Id: <199611050136.RAA14232@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: Re: new standard tuning Resent-Message-ID: <"uyXr7.A.R5E.ctpfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1009 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:46:16 -0800 X-UIDL: e03344443dafadf3ab123af7a0ab156b At 03:31 AM 11/4/96 EST, you wrote: >about Fripp's "New Standard Tuning": > >yes, the bending possibilities are limited, but on the electric guitar you >can always use a whammy bar to bend notes. This is not the same as bending a >string with your finger but as Dave said - maybe the restriction forces you >to leave the territory you're used to, and find something new. > >I had this musical crisis years ago when I was simply fed up with what I >played. I really couldn't help but notice that my playing repeated itself, >that I used other guitarists' phrases and chords, and I got bored to the >point of almost giving up the guitar altogether. > >In my first Guitar Craft course in 1988, Fripp presented this different >tuning he had found and switched to, abandoning the old tuning altogether >for himself. I recognized that here was a chance for me to throw away all >the learned stuff that bored me, and jump into unknown territory. > >Being a lazy person who doesn't practice a lot, it took me years to learn >the new tuning, but I took the chance. I tuned my guitars to the new tuning, >and never went back. It was a painful process at times because in the >beginning I couldn't play *anything* meaningful - when in a session someone >asked me to play a specific chord, I couldn't, or it took quite a while to >figure it out, and I felt like a fool. For a long time, I was unable to play >a solo because I hit wrong notes very often. > >Eventually I got familiar with the NST, and I'm happy with it. The whole >playing and feeling of the guitar is different. There are undeniable >limitations: No more bending; playing scales is more difficult because >you have to stretch the fingers more; and some kinds of chords are impossible >to play. On the other hand, the tuning gives you the chance to learn a new, >fascinating, and equally expressive language, with a different way of >phrasing, playing scales, and new kinds of chords. > >I'm not saying that the NST is a *better* tuning. Of course the traditional >tuning is just as limitless as the NST. For guitarists who feel happy with >the traditional tuning, and with their playing, there is no need to learn >a new tuning, but for guitarists who feel stuck, the NST is a possible way >out. > >-Michael P > A *VERY* similar experience to mine. I vacillated between the two for years, and finally, after my fourth or fifth GC course, dove in to NST permanently. And, like Michael, I've never looked back. a blessing that's hard to recognize dave at seventeen 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * I'll be downstairs if you need me. I'll still be * * downstairs if you DON'T need me. * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 21:00:43 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 17:50:07 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKaeQ-0005ui-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:50:02 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:38:38 -0800 Message-Id: <199611050138.RAA14271@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: Re: new standard tuning Resent-Message-ID: <"_rcS7B.A.lGF.6vpfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1010 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 17:50:02 -0800 X-UIDL: 4c98bb0982d51cbda84f7c13aca359ea At 04:52 PM 11/3/95 -0500, you wrote: >>>C G D A E G >> >>I do not think I will learn another tuning with a irregularity. >> >>>3) Forget about BENDING. It will break strings, almost always. (Of course >>>you can get away with on the bottom 3 or 4 strings if you really want. >> >>I would rather play without strings than without bending. >> >>Thanks a lot anyway. >>Matthias > > > I've been using this tuning for years and have never had a problem >with breaking strings. Popping strings has more to do with your technique >then with a tuning..Or maybe your guitar setup is to blame?? > > Steev > > Steev you misunderstand after about the first five years...i never break strings. it takes longer for some of us to adjust to the tuning, but once you understand...it's never a problem i was thinking back to that first year or two, when you don't yet know how to APPROACH the guitar, how to restring it without breaking strings. plus I had a history of picking WAY TOO HARD GC finally put a stop to that HONOR NECCESSITY HONOR SUFFICIENCY (especially in regard to picking force!) dave at seventeen 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * I'll be downstairs if you need me. I'll still be * * downstairs if you DON'T need me. * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 23:29:28 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 21:54:33 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKeT1-0003Zs-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 21:54:31 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 00:51:18 -0500 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961105005117_222644855@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: The West Coast Summit Resent-Message-ID: <"18F12D.A.KMD.gYtfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1018 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 21:54:31 -0800 X-UIDL: 0b6385bf5b62ed9a222a4a6c118b0fe5 Hi there! Andre, here is my own response to your list of questions about performance preferences for the loop users summit. 1. BEST TIME--For me, anytime after NAMM (mid January '97). In my day gig I'm ramping up to that even now and don't have any more spare brain cells for extracurricular creativity. Prefered days are Friday, Saturday, Sunday, or Monday. No midweeks please... 2. GEAR REQUIREMENTS--Fairly simple, if need be. One AC outlet, and enough space for a stool, a 12-space rack (on casters), a couple of guitar stands, A GR-1 and a bunch of EV-5 pedals. And, if there is a full-range system available, I'll only need two channels on the board (I can bring my own pair of direct boxes). Can we assume that there will be a "stage" mike of some sort (to make silly comments between pieces if need be)? If so that would be nice. If not, oh well...I'm not that good at telling jokes anyway. As far as list of my "gear" goes it would take a while to list out item by item. How 'bout just a list of potential instruments...the candidates are midi-augmented electric guitar, 6- and/or 12-string acoustic guitars, birimbau, kalimba, cunbus (a sort of a mandolin/banjo from Turkey), 2 midi wind controllers (cheapo Casio ones no less, taped together as a mutant "siamese" pair), miscellaneous mallets, sticks, springs and other gadgetry to hit, rub, and scrape things with, as well as the things to hit, rub, and scrape (in addition to all of the above abused instruments) pieces of metal, toys. and perhaps a sampler... More than likely it'll just be the rack, the electric guitar and just one other instrument. But, if the show starts to look a bit too guitar heavy, I can do other things to add alittle contrast. When in doubt...punt. 3. SET LENGTH--About an hour would be fine, much less than that and it's hardly worth the trouble to schlepp the gear and set up. More would be nice, but realistically, a little hard on the audience if they're not used to it (without a break) 4. UNREHEARSED COLLABORATIONS--I'd love it. That is what I do (whenever I do perform with others). Life is too short to spend it rehearsing. Don't get me wrong, It's not like I'm any sort of phenom, or virtuoso, or any such thing (far from it). I guess I'm just too stupid, or crazy (or both) to be much affraid of being out of my depth any more. Life really is too short. If music is a language, I love a good conversation. I'm fairly at home with that concept. 5. TIME OF DAY--If it's indoors, it doesn't matter much. Anytime between noon and 2:00am. Beyond that, I'll not be too picky. I do rather dislike outdoor gigs in open sunshine though... 6. VENUE TYPE--Anywhere where an attendee who really wants to hear what's going on can (without too many "mechanical" distractions). I play both very loud and very soft. Some places that have the cash register, capuchino machine, or margarita blender right next to the stage can totally distract a performer and audience from what has been refered to as that "ritual" and (I believe) mutual act of making music. However, the other normal noises of a coffehouse or bar are no problem though. So, while an academic or theatrical venue might actually be preferable to me, I've played in enough java joints and jazz clubs to know how to cope with the real world. If it turns out that it happens in the Bay area, I've only been there as a tourist. I don't know my way around much there. I could probably make it though. I guess I'm about 100 miles closer than you folks down in L.A. are. Thank you for all of the work you are doing to pull this together, Andre. I hope this info is of some help. Take care Ted From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 23:29:38 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 22:59:53 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKfUF-0006V1-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 22:59:51 -0800 Date: 05 Nov 96 01:54:00 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: new standard tuning Message-ID: <961105065359_100041.247_JHB45-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"4-rXLD.A.sCG.-Wufy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1019 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 22:59:51 -0800 X-UIDL: 3c4336360d97a94c911bb3a3917a3b0b Dave about the NST: > I find it kind of interesting that people would switch from one tuning > to another (standard to New Standard), yet remain basically monogamous > in their choice. I use a number of different tunings, each with their > own strengths and weaknesses. Part of the motivation of NST is to > break out of the rut, but I'd be afraid of falling into a new one. You're right about the NST as a potential new rut, but after my experience of learning NST, I'm a little sceptical about my ability to learn a dozen more tunings. How long does it take you to get familiar with a new tuning? (A VG-8 would probably make it easier to experiment ... oh well) -Michael P From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 23:29:26 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 21:54:09 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKeSe-0003Xd-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 21:54:08 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 03:56:38 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: new standard tuning Resent-Message-ID: <"qZWg4B.A.-FD.tXtfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1014 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 21:54:08 -0800 X-UIDL: bf771ff8cecebd75160b957042e3002e Thank you for these kind helping words, Dave my friend. You are right, I should not shut out any possiblilties. There are no limits to growth but the limits push to growth... >>>3) Forget about BENDING. It will break strings, almost always. (Of course >>>you can get away with on the bottom 3 or 4 strings if you really want. >> >>I would rather play without strings than without bending. >> >Just like short loops with sudden endings with NO REVERB...perhaps playing >without bending might force one to play in a new and different fashion... > >can one express emotion through the guitar WITHOUT recourse to the >blues/standard "emotive" sound of a bend? if you WANT to bend, of course >DO, in OST. but in NST...there are challenges to be met. > >don't dismiss it out of hand. and the irregularity in NST is far simpler >and easier to overcome than the crippling, hand-it-down-for-centuries (lutes >onward) oh-god-it's a fourth-instead-of-a-fifth "standard tuning" > >it least in NST you have five strings, in sequence, in which scales are >IDENTICAL and UNIQUE. no having to worry when you get to that third string... > >it's all in your perspective, my friend. you of all people will understand... > >try it anyway. ask yourself: can I make even better music WITHOUT bending? > >i find more and more the answer is yes. also: in NST, i constantly use the >WHAMMY II pedal for pitch manipulation, octaving and bending. so in this >sense...it makes no difference WHAT the strings are tuned to. > >if not whammying: NST no bending. > >if whammying: NST no bending > >(or: OST no bending) > > >just trying to confuse the hell out of everyone :) > From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 23:29:32 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 21:54:39 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKeT8-0003ab-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 21:54:38 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 03:56:44 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Subjects Resent-Message-ID: <"pHB20.A.iHD.6Xtfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1015 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 21:54:38 -0800 X-UIDL: 59ab2377a43b4307bb24fd2d7fb66f77 Just a *unimportant* question of organization of the list: The very same idea has been discussed under the subject of: BRACE YOURSELVES!!! Seven west coast gigs The latest on the West Coast Summit ... probably this last wont last... With a few new neuron connections, my brain can capture that its all the same, but my trusty old mac will never learn this... Some people might want to save time and trash certain subjects right away or even have the machine do it. Sometimes it s necessary to change subject because really does, naturally. This is only a suggestion. Just go ahead and continue doing the way you think is right. Thanks PS another, similar one: If you have several independent things to say, It might be whise to write several short mails, each one with the appropreate title. I mean: Be aware that you crate a wave that changes the world, starting with one sentence and its subject. From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 23:29:25 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 21:54:06 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKeSY-0003X6-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 21:54:02 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 03:56:50 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: hellos; loop and improv. theory Resent-Message-ID: <"aUIF6.A.LID.AYtfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1016 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 21:54:02 -0800 X-UIDL: 765ce83f2b5d33728d5aca7fe355e7eb Welcome Michael! >Uh, all you loopers are an interesting and informative, and >collegial bunch. So are you! These Books certainly are a new direction of contribution to the list, probably things I was looking for! Without wanting to abuse your good will: Is there a way you could pass us a bit more about the essence of these books, the part that is important to us? I think most of us are not going to read Heidegger (as far as I know its heavy complext, isn't it?) to improve their impro. > All these references are sent in the spirit of sharing in this loopy >community process. Thanks for all of your teachings. Your turn to teach? It could be an essay, a collection of paragraphs out of those books... Maybe another page on the site: "Philosophical background"? I would love that. Others would help Thanks Matthias From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 23:29:30 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 21:54:38 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKeT6-0003aT-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 21:54:36 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 03:56:56 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: see guitar player mag, etc Resent-Message-ID: <"_TIMtD.A.tID.CYtfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1017 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 21:54:36 -0800 X-UIDL: 11e7736d914ff4db2b9584d64f9cbc09 andre east: >loop driven improv liked that expression >with live (real!!) percussion looped as well? >music is the best (FZ) Frank Zappa said that? Tremendously whise. I thought football was the best. :-) >ps -anyone out there have a MIDI MITIGATOR???? Yes, I installed its board somewhere in my mess and use it to control my PCMs with foot operated P+G faders. Its doing its job perfectly for 6 years. Why? Matthias From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 00:18:17 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 23:32:40 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKfzy-00000x-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 23:32:38 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 23:29:46 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: echoplex help Resent-Message-ID: <"opWxTD.A.LSH.h1ufy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1020 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 23:32:38 -0800 X-UIDL: f07933c32726d60c3ee432ed04ee3d07 >I would be most appreciative if one of you would contact me about >hardware >rework/fixes for the Echoplex. Mike Lyon of Oberheim has not responded >to >several Emails, for over a week. He had promised to send me what I need, > > I asked when he would send them, then no reply since. My problems: > >1. Loop start point moving when using nextloop. I haven't gotten around to trying to duplicate this problem. Its not likely to be hardware. Sounds like it could have been an obscure software bug, but I won't know withoug checking it out. If it is software, It is very probably fixed in the infamous software upgrade. We looked very hard for such problems during the upgrade development and took care of them. >2. Sound becoming distorted after loop repeated for several days. I would suspect the thermal problem for that, where you only need to cut a pin on an IC to cure it. The faq which Andre has so graciously begun compiling will most certainly cover that. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 00:18:19 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 23:43:29 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKgAS-0000VV-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 23:43:28 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 23:41:44 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611050741.XAA17969@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <199611020026.QAA05680@barley.adnc.com> Subject: interesting thoughts... Resent-Message-ID: <"3X5BZD.A.Nb.2_ufy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1021 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 23:43:28 -0800 X-UIDL: a60607e1b127cfccc636c1ee69b07466 >>Nono, it takes an artist to create art. Accident is great, but only if an >>artist interpretes it. Public envolvement is fun but not satisfactory, >>lacking straightness or purity or something. >>I may be totaly wrong here, would need to see the result. > >me too! > >it would STILL be interesting to see if a "non-artist" or "non-musician" >audience could indeed "compose" something of merit using this method. Well, we'll see, if I ever get on the list CD! ;-) From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 00:18:30 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 5 04:06:18 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKkGm-0006dT-00; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 04:06:16 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:04:19 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: new standard tuning In-Reply-To: <199611030139.RAA17582@barley.adnc.com> Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"On-d.A.fEG.W1yfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1022 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 04:06:16 -0800 X-UIDL: a26ef9bbd708219988886b5fac9d430b I have an information that could be interesting to all people using NST. Replace your high G guitar string wit ha good german quality hrpsichord string. Why? Because the quelity of the steel compares in nothing with the &@@##@ quality of american and sweedish steel we usually have. I won't go into detail, but where you would be stopped at G# (or more) with a guitar string, a harpsichord string will be able to go about two whole tone Higher. I do personnally have a perfect fifth tuning (low to high: A E B F# C# G#) I of course had these problems with G# string breaking and and I could very much bend this string (of course) with fingers or tremolo... To my knowing, the best string is a german one called "Roslow". I use the equivalent of a .008 for my G# wich is (harpsichord are measured in millimeters) 0.2 mm. Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 00:18:31 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 5 04:11:34 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKkLs-00079X-00; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 04:11:32 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 13:10:14 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: new standard tuning In-Reply-To: <199611041409.JAA03858@nielsenmedia.com> Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"rRisw.A.omG.y6yfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1023 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 04:11:32 -0800 X-UIDL: 3d42c87df66fa87ccf014c01fdf6fef5 orry a viola de gamba as you say as 7 strings since Mr de Saintes Colombes, and is fretted instrument tuned in fourth. Olivier Malhomme Viole-de-gambe addicted for a long time. From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 00:18:34 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 5 05:55:12 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKlyB-0001kB-00; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 05:55:11 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:48:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611051348.IAA10595@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: Zappa, mitigator, little alligator Resent-Message-ID: <"Y6I-UD.A.qlB.Ac0fy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1024 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 05:55:11 -0800 X-UIDL: 2907b583a29ae7f3e13c4a7f94bb339b with live (real!!) percussion > >looped as well? sometimes, yes - 2 boss perc pads put thru a digitech 2 sec delay/sampler > >>music is the best (FZ) > >Frank Zappa said that? Tremendously whise. I thought football was the best. :-) yes - on his brilliant "Joe's Garage " set there's a great soliloquy near the end of the 2nd disk. All should hear this album - it deals with a lot - the music industry's lameness, the gov't and censorship, rock cliches, touring, etc. And features the talents of Warren Cuccurullo, Vinnie Coliuata, Ike Willis, and of course FZ with come of his best soloing >>ps -anyone out there have a MIDI MITIGATOR???? > >Yes, I installed its board somewhere in my mess and use it to control my >PCMs with foot operated P+G faders. Its doing its job perfectly for 6 >years. Why?->Matthias just wondering - i have one two & had heard that the company was sold or closed down - anyone know?? i know it was in Florida - i'm also looking for schematics. Mine works really well - for those who've not seen these - it's a midi footpedal which goes way beyond mere prog-change. It'll send ANY MIDI SIGNAL - single note on/off, chords, start & stop for any device, simultaneous different commands on different channels...etc And it's got a neat wide green LED display for .....words (uhh,...huh huh huh) > Andre (east) From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 00:18:39 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 5 06:13:48 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKmGC-0002Mn-00; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 06:13:48 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:06:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611051406.JAA12070@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: Re: see guitar player mag, etc Resent-Message-ID: <"FD8uaD.A.zHC.ys0fy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1025 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 06:13:48 -0800 X-UIDL: 5541d1f43ce96a69fe549e2721245690 At 10:27 AM 11/4/96 -0500, you wrote: >>Andre (of the east), >> In your post you asked about any New Jersey loopists. I'm here in >>Southampton, n.j. Where are you located? I'm in red bank NJ. Central. Also: Bon just played here in Mt.>>Holly at the Down to Earth Coffeehouse in October. While I wasn't able to>>make this concert (had a gig in nearby Medford same night) I understand he>>plays here a couple times a year. He's doing solo, live loop based show at Th Common Ground in Summit - uh, the day after Thanksgiving . More details when i get 'em. Andre (east) Any other Jersey loopists out there? >> ---Paul Mimlitsch (Stick Player) > > >I am a loopist, experimental guitarist here in Delaware about 45 min from philly > >Paul From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 00:18:37 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 5 06:13:33 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKmFx-0002Lu-00; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 06:13:33 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:06:18 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611051406.JAA12075@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: Bon Live, NY NJ PA DE Loopers Resent-Message-ID: <"8UORcC.A.iIC.1s0fy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1026 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 06:13:33 -0800 X-UIDL: 345e8828f8a11b161d7053097bc40da2 At 10:27 AM 11/4/96 -0500, you wrote: >>Andre (of the east), >> In your post you asked about any New Jersey loopists. I'm here in >>Southampton, n.j. Where are you located? I'm in red bank NJ. Central. Also: Bon just played here in Mt.>>Holly at the Down to Earth Coffeehouse in October. While I wasn't able to>>make this concert (had a gig in nearby Medford same night) I understand he>>plays here a couple times a year. He's doing solo, live loop based show at Th Common Ground in Summit - uh, the day after Thanksgiving . More details when i get 'em. Andre (east) Any other Jersey loopists out there? >> ---Paul Mimlitsch (Stick Player) > > >I am a loopist, experimental guitarist here in Delaware about 45 min from philly > >Paul From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 00:18:45 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 5 06:43:36 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKmj1-0003PI-00; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 06:43:35 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:21:43 -0500 From: "S. Patrick Hickey" Message-Id: <199611051421.JAA24877@nielsenmedia.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: new standard tuning Resent-Message-ID: <"yahNSB.A.QID.OJ1fy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1029 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 06:43:35 -0800 X-UIDL: 76a9ab002dcbc213595f93919e5b1da1 I tend to let tunings grow on me. I strictly forbid analysis, and let discovery work for me. Stick with them for a while, come back to them often. Open tunings are fun; minor tunings more useful than their wail suggests. Drone tunings are great for meditation/trance. Pat Hickey ***SPH brzrkr@nielsenmedia.com From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 00:18:40 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 5 06:26:03 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKmS2-0002jc-00; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 06:26:02 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:23:33 -0500 From: "S. Patrick Hickey" Message-Id: <199611051423.JAA24956@nielsenmedia.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: new standard tuning Resent-Message-ID: <"g-3LTD.A.YeC.340fy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1027 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 06:26:02 -0800 X-UIDL: 82ea615c2f1a4f1b139e6ef42b7020b6 You could also use electric guitar strings. I know folks who go back and forth elec/acoustic so often, they find it easier using the same strings on both. Pat Hickey ***SPH brzrkr@nielsenmedia.com From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 00:18:42 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 5 06:27:55 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKmTr-0002qi-00; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 06:27:55 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:25:31 -0500 From: "S. Patrick Hickey" Message-Id: <199611051425.JAA25025@nielsenmedia.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: new standard tuning Resent-Message-ID: <"5PocDD.A.znC.w60fy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1028 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 06:27:55 -0800 X-UIDL: d81619bb6c426a2eff69daa230a5ade5 A 7-string instrument tuned strictly in fourths does not describe the instruments named viola de gamba here in the States. Curioser and curiouser. Pat ***SPH brzrkr@nielsenmedia.com From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 00:18:46 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 5 07:27:00 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKnP2-00054L-00; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 07:27:00 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 10:23:24 -0500 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961105102323_345612370@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Midi Loops Resent-Message-ID: <"bxAt0B.A.ZnE.uw1fy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1030 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 07:27:00 -0800 X-UIDL: 4f7bf017956256eb20c2d719a70bf197 Hey Matthias! You were inquiring about my mention on JamFactory a few days ago and it has taken a while to get around to replying. Sorry. Unfortunately, Intelligent Music is out of business. Dr. T did pick up the product for a while. But, I have no idea about their status or the continued support of JamFactory by it's new owners. It's a Mac only program and a fairly old one (1986). It'll run on a Mac Plus with system 6.0.x. If it weren't copy protected (and if I was sure that I would not incur the wrath of the software gods) I would simply send you a copy via snail mail. But, alas, any copies will only work if you have the original to use as a key disk (even for hard disk installations, how lame). I really wish I could be of more assistance. It's a cool tool that deserved a longer lifespan than it got. Ted From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 00:18:47 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 5 08:15:13 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKo9g-0000CV-00; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:15:12 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 10:12:49 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner X-Sender: dstagner@icarus.icarus.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Tuning theory In-Reply-To: <961105065359_100041.247_JHB45-2@CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"VUbSiC.A.rD.Me2fy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1031 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:15:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 6dc0aa7622fda908659684001059cc43 On 5 Nov 1996, Michael Peters wrote: > Dave about the NST: > > > I find it kind of interesting that people would switch from one tuning > > to another (standard to New Standard), yet remain basically monogamous > > in their choice. I use a number of different tunings, each with their > > own strengths and weaknesses. Part of the motivation of NST is to > > break out of the rut, but I'd be afraid of falling into a new one. > > You're right about the NST as a potential new rut, but after my experience > of learning NST, I'm a little sceptical about my ability to learn a dozen > more tunings. How long does it take you to get familiar with a new tuning? > (A VG-8 would probably make it easier to experiment ... oh well) Actually, if I start to know a tuning too well, I start to avoid it. Also, there are similarities to consider between tunings. Two of my long-time favorites have been open G (DGDGBD, probably the second most common tuning on earth) and DADGAD, but I've been avoiding open G lately because I fell into a rut. Now I'm playing a lot with double-dropped D (DADGBD), which is halfway between the two. When Mr Fripp advising switching tunings in order to break old habits, I took it to heart. Not knowing a tuning well has two effects. One is playing with intent, thinking about what you play rather than flying your hands on autopilot. The other is that there are new sounds just waiting to be discovered, especially chord voicings. A lot of what I do is finding a lucky accident and learning to repeat it. These days, I think of tunings basically as sets of intervallic relationships between adjacent strings, and across the fretboard. I think of octaves and fifths for drones, of 4ths, 2nds, and minor 3rds from string to string (I rarely use tunings with major 3rds. Don't like 'em). After a while, a tuning is no longer something you memorize scale patterns and chords shapes for. Scale patterns are string-to-string only, not across the fretboard. For example, CGDGCD and DADGAD have the same sorts of string-to-string relationships and interval sets, just in different places. But they *sound* very different, because we've moved the intervallic relationships to different strings, and different strings have different sounds. The difference in tone from string to string is much more an issue for acoustic guitarists. Many electric players (Frip and Holdsworth come to mind) try to capture a consistent tone across the fretboard. I'm trying to do the opposite... accentuate the unique voices of individual strings, and the tonal differences of various attacks (open strings, natural and artificial harmonics, nail versus flesh, etc). I suppose I'm more interested in texture than melody and harmony. That's why I like ambient and looping music... it helps sounds to exist on their own, rather than existing only relative to other sounds. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 00:19:14 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 5 08:38:01 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKoVj-0001U9-00; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:37:59 -0800 Message-Id: <19034.199611051634@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:34:13 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr Michael P. Hughes) Subject: Re: interesting thoughts... Resent-Message-ID: <"KQp4f.A.8HB.ox2fy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1032 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 08:37:59 -0800 X-UIDL: 94607f7fe509a8b5d1b63abf0cb531fd >I doubt that I will live to see this, but >I'd bet any sum that the music of the future (50 or 100 years from now) will >be *completely* different from what it is now, and that its level of technical >sophistication will also possibly allow for some kind of audience >participation. Okay, we need an audience to perform to - but participation? Sure it'd be popular, but like Karaoke I doubt it'd be any good! Mike in the 52nd state From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 00:19:16 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 5 09:03:57 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKoun-0002yF-00; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:03:53 -0800 Message-Id: <20176.199611051700@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:00:17 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr Michael P. Hughes) Subject: Re: tunings Resent-Message-ID: <"-W4-6B.A.LoC.wL3fy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1033 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:03:53 -0800 X-UIDL: c11942987d49022713199e5ddac69b07 Matthias said: >These days I thought about tuning (Not an issue for me so far) and wished >deeply a tuning with equal distance between strings so any fingering can be >applied anywere. I tuned B and high E string a half tone up. It is >marvelous somehow, much easier for the brain. But then again some chords >become nightmares. I've gone back to equal 4ths (EADGCF) and it's incredibly refreshing to actually be able to reach all the notes! All you guys who went to NST to get out of a rut, try retuning to OST and see how you've changed!!! >From Dave: > from lowest to highest: > > C G D A E G > > Only the D remains from Old Standard, although you do have the high E (now > on the second string). And of course the G and C are LOWERED. > This acheives perfect fifths across the lowest five strings...and you must > then learn to deal with the anomaly of the high G (not hard with practice). Why is that there?? Why not go in perfect 5ths across the board, eg Ab Eb Bb F C G or F C G D A E? It makes a lot more sense. > 3) Forget about BENDING. It will break strings, almost always. (Of course > you can get away with on the bottom 3 or 4 strings if you really want. Are you using a 25.5" scale? I think that's why RF uses Les Pauls. Mind you I have managed to get a 0.008 sting up to Ab (sorry, I can't find a hash on this keyboard), and imagine you'd be able to get an A on a LP. Bending from G should be manageable, especially if you set your trem claw/springs for it. Of course you could always order 0.007's which Rotosound (I think) make for Tony Iommi.... > can one express emotion through the guitar WITHOUT recourse to the > blues/standard "emotive" sound of a bend? if you WANT to bend, of course > DO, in OST. but in NST...there are challenges to be met. Should a tuning be challengin, or should it be transparent? > don't dismiss it out of hand. and the irregularity in NST is far simpler > and easier to overcome than the crippling, hand-it-down-for-centuries (lutes > onward) oh-god-it's a fourth-instead-of-a-fifth "standard tuning" The Viola de Gamba was tuned in 4ths, which goes back 400 years. The last carryover of this family is the double bass, also in 4ths. Anyone know about viols? > it least in NST you have five strings, in sequence, in which scales are > IDENTICAL and UNIQUE. no having to worry when you get to that third string... No, you have to worry about the 2nd! :) Mike in the 52nd state From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 00:19:18 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 5 09:15:25 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKp5v-0003fe-00; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:15:23 -0800 Message-Id: <20597.199611051712@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:12:59 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr Michael P. Hughes) Subject: Re: new standard tuning Resent-Message-ID: <"NnrmNC.A.2SD.ZW3fy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1034 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:15:23 -0800 X-UIDL: d4d92619d56718fb593747248a49f4ad >orry a viola de gamba as you say as 7 strings since Mr de Saintes >Colombes, and is fretted instrument tuned in fourth. > >Olivier Malhomme Viole-de-gambe addicted for a long time. According to "Musical Instruments of the Western World" (1966) it's got 6. Another great reference for this is the 1667 (not a typo!) work "The Division-Viol, or The Art of Playing Extempore upon a Ground" by Christopher Simpson. He puts the tuning as DGCEAD. (Division-Viol was the English name for the Viola de Gamba) Mike in the 52nd state, and 100 yards from a very well-equipped University Library. From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 00:19:19 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 5 09:21:33 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKpBs-00045O-00; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:21:32 -0800 Message-Id: <20784.199611051718@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:18:45 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr Michael P. Hughes) Subject: Re: Re[2]: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"Yzj48D.A.coD.gb3fy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1035 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 09:21:32 -0800 X-UIDL: 2b104655f69d1902a0910fa1d805cef9 Doug'n'Todd: >> I'd also be interested in a small release list only type thing. >> Count me in for that. The $250 CD proposal is a great idea, but I just >> don't have the money for it. >> Doug Michael >> http://www.ccnet.com/~dmic27 > >Yeah, that's where I sit too. I'm a married guy and can do things on a >smaller scale - that's where we should start. If that generates interest >then maybe we can go forth from there with a bigger project. > >Todd Madson. Ditto. That's why I suggested the $30/minute idea - I could afford 2-3 mins, but not $250 for 7.6!! Someone mentioned a tape tree. Would that be a good place to start? It's not as if there are any duplication problems... Mike in the 52nd state From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 00:19:38 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 5 11:50:58 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKrWT-0005Y8-00; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:50:57 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:25:09 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: More on Indonesian music In-Reply-To: <9611041423.ZM1707@wolf0.vlsc.rpi.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"BfcP2D.A.sFF.ao5fy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1037 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:50:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 327f3fc54ca6c5b86cf1d78ca893507c On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Louis Collier Hyams wrote: > andre' > > you guys had a badass(read this as: completely superwonderful) > balinese dance teacher at calarts the last time I was there... is she still > there? I think the dance teacher is the wife of I Nyoman Wenten, in which case she should still be here. And yes, she is certainly (insert positive comment here), as is the rest of the Indonesian music department. --Andre From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 00:19:31 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 5 11:30:53 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKrD0-00045t-00; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:30:50 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:26:27 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611051926.LAA08285@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: BRACE YOURSELVES!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"JizK1.A.OnD.tU5fy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1036 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:30:50 -0800 X-UIDL: 8fcb6edd8ee02f741bfb38a1f5368b69 >WOW! I didn't know Peter Thalen was staging concerts! Can somebody >forward me the Expose web site, or Thalen's e-mail address? One of us >should get in touch with him ASAP. I don't know Peter, but my friend Mike Grimes is invoved with the 'zine and the concerts (his band Puppet Show is headlining soon). grimes@chem.Stanford.EDU Tell him I sent you. From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 00:19:40 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 5 12:11:04 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKrpt-0006u5-00; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:11:01 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 11:43:42 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: BRACE YOURSELVES!!! In-Reply-To: <199611051926.LAA08285@pure.PureAtria.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"NXSpGD.A.ILG.J55fy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1038 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:11:01 -0800 X-UIDL: bacaf030caa6ea9a1d44ee7f9ccb10c8 On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Ray Peck wrote: > >WOW! I didn't know Peter Thalen was staging concerts! Can somebody > >forward me the Expose web site, or Thalen's e-mail address? One of us > >should get in touch with him ASAP. > > I don't know Peter, but my friend Mike Grimes is invoved with the > 'zine and the concerts (his band Puppet Show is headlining soon). > > grimes@chem.Stanford.EDU > > Tell him I sent you. I'll forward a copy of the letter I sent to Thalen to the above address. Thanks for the info. --Andre From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 00:19:41 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 5 12:11:54 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKrqh-0006x5-00; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:11:51 -0800 Message-Id: <9611052005.AA07190@acc> Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 16:03:15 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: jspeer@haverford.edu Subject: Re: Bon Live, NY NJ PA DE Loopers Resent-Message-ID: <"7Edx3.A.KRG.W65fy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1039 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:11:51 -0800 X-UIDL: 4a80d8cf41da0921c9003a09e74978e0 Hello all, I am not a looper myself, but I am in Philly and interested in looped music. Any NJ, PA, or DE loopers, please feel free to put me on your mailing list or forward me your gig schedule. I'm definately interested in coming out to see you play. Jim Speer jspeer@haverford.edu >>I am a loopist, experimental guitarist here in Delaware about 45 min from >philly ********************** My Town: Philadelphia! From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 00:19:50 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 5 15:12:18 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKufI-000269-00; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:12:16 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:07:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611052307.PAA09224@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <9611041241.ZM1573@wolf0.vlsc.rpi.edu> Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"cmkurD.A.dtB.aj8fy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1040 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:12:16 -0800 X-UIDL: cfca9b35c0f4b506504a741d0948262e "Louis Collier Hyams" writes: > >> I would like to have a spiral in the background. >> Anyone knows how to create a spiral on the puter? >> >> Matthias > >what kinda spiral do yah want? QED(quite easily done) > It would be cool to write a PostScript program to generate a spiral of guitars. It's probably pretty close to one of the programming book examples (although it's been a couple years since I looked at them). From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 00:19:52 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 5 15:32:23 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKuyj-0003Fo-00; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:32:21 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:28:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611052328.PAA11795@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19961104201528.00b680c4@pureatria.com> Subject: Re: The latest on the West Coast Summit Resent-Message-ID: <"UUF0dD.A.q3C.a38fy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1041 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:32:21 -0800 X-UIDL: 6fae8243889f1c5b4a1d01e9589ac398 >I do recommend that regardless of where the event takes place, that it be >videotaped for those who can't make it. And audiotaped. I can bring my Pana 3800. I'm sure people have better mics/mic preamps than my MarcSounds (like Core Sounds) mics. If not, I'll bring those, too. From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 00:19:54 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 5 15:50:04 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKvFp-0004PO-00; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:50:01 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 18:46:40 -0500 From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <961105184639_1148257687@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Tape Idea Resent-Message-ID: <"ekrCuC.A.48D.iI9fy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1042 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 15:50:01 -0800 X-UIDL: 519a53db00d773a28fd3e4f372b2ac4a Would it be possible to do the same thing with Zip cartridges and Sound Designer II files? From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 00:19:56 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 5 17:58:55 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKxGX-0005bt-00; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:58:53 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:32:15 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Yet more on the West Coast gig (sorry for the new subject, Matthias) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"gcjDdB.A.uEF.BA_fy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1043 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 17:58:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 5bf9ce4216263d01ee0ed6001abd42d6 Here's a bit of promising news from Expose magazine. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 12:55:57 -0800 (PST) From: Michael T. Grimes To: The Man Himself Subject: Re: Greetings > Hello -- > > Ray Peck recommended that I talk to you about the possibility of > organizing a Bay Area show through Expose. Below is a copy of a letter I > sent to Peter Thalen, which should be self-explanatory. > > Thanks, > > --Andre Thanks for the interest. Our premiere concert event is this upcoming Friday night, so everyone is busy getting ready for that. Next week, we are all getting together (the exposure concert committee) to plan out future events. The scope of our musical interests are very broad and we are intentionally organizing shows with diverse styles of music. Feel free to send either myself or Peter any updated information about the loop summit. We'll be in touch. mike ps I'm good friends with Ray Peck, so if you know him, you can get info to me through him as well. From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 00:20:03 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 5 20:30:07 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKzcs-0004bb-00; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 20:30:06 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 20:22:56 -0800 Message-Id: <199611060422.UAA02512@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: logistics nightmare? Resent-Message-ID: <"WQfg5.A.UPE.uPBgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1044 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 20:30:06 -0800 X-UIDL: b1722334f35df096b64cf921c907e368 firstly, although it's not his personal preference, god bless our long-suffering leader KIM FLINT for digesting this fine list. thanks! secondly...the west coast gig is getting...well maybe out of hand? two days, and only one hour each? my latest two releases each contain a song running in excess of 30 minutes! many of my pieces run 10, 15, 20 minutes (although as Matthias knows I ALSO do SHORT PIECES :) ) here's a thought: what about TWO gigs? one for us SOUTHERNERS (LA, San Diego) and one for the NORTHERNERS (San Francisco and nearby). this would mean LONGER SETS for each artist, a shorter (one-day??) show... and EACH could be videod for distribution (say for a nominal fee) amongst ourselves. JUST A THOUGHT...but two days...(i think I might go mad!) plus, I work 50 hours a week and the Bay area is just too far to travel at this point. any thoughts????????????????? dave @ 17 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * I'll be downstairs if you need me. I'll still be * * downstairs if you DON'T need me. * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Wed Nov 06 00:20:06 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 5 23:34:20 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vL2V9-0004VM-00; Tue, 5 Nov 1996 23:34:19 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 23:08:29 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: logistics nightmare? In-Reply-To: <199611060422.UAA02512@barley.adnc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"-CLTr.A.BIE.x7Dgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1045 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 1996 23:34:19 -0800 X-UIDL: 2d149a4c427123dccf5add93bfc65209 On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, studio seventeen productions wrote: > here's a thought: > > what about TWO gigs? one for us SOUTHERNERS (LA, San Diego) and one for the > NORTHERNERS (San Francisco and nearby). > > this would mean LONGER SETS for each artist, a shorter (one-day??) show... > > and EACH could be videod for distribution (say for a nominal fee) amongst > ourselves. > > JUST A THOUGHT...but two days...(i think I might go mad!) This might be the way to go, ultimately. I'd love to see both Northern and Southern California represented in one concert, and I personally would remain in favor of fairly short sets. (Mind you, an hour isn't exactly the model of brevity!) But it may well be that the logistics of trying to do a show with all of the interested parties, coupled with people's scheduling conflicts, would prove too much at this point. And if some people are unable to participate due to the complications of travel or time, then the main point of the thing (IMO) goes out the window. All right, how many people (including those who have already replied AND those who haven't put their name in as interested performers) would prefer seperate Bay Area and LA gigs, and would be interested in putting themselves down as performers? --Andre From ???@??? Thu Nov 07 02:55:56 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 6 01:36:38 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vL4PW-0000jh-00; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 01:36:38 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:35:33 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? In-Reply-To: <9611041241.ZM1573@wolf0.vlsc.rpi.edu> Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"tqtHfD.A.Fo.4vFgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1046 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 01:36:38 -0800 X-UIDL: 6a4b887ef19bc92456c6a4510282a493 Siigggh! I f you want a good one I guess we'll have a fractal one it is sooo fashionable... Olivier Malhomme On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Louis Collier Hyams wrote: > > > I would like to have a spiral in the background. > > Anyone knows how to create a spiral on the puter? > > > > Matthias > > what kinda spiral do yah want? QED(quite easily done) > > From ???@??? Thu Nov 07 02:55:58 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 6 02:05:12 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vL4r9-0001It-00; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 02:05:11 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:03:42 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Viola...... In-Reply-To: <199611051425.JAA25025@nielsenmedia.com> Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"o0pRxB.A.pLB.lKGgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1047 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 02:05:11 -0800 X-UIDL: 2051bee03ba32d2f58f6758b95c0c46f In fact, at first the "viola de gamba" had six strings. Then Mr de Saintes Colombes (his first name was never known) added a seventh in the low register. (it was around the end of the 17th century). He had relationship that remain obscure with another viola genius named Marin Marais. This later man entered the court of Louis the XIV. Saintes Colombes could'nt stand mundane way of life and only dedicated himself to craft, to the point of not taking good care of his children. He refused to play for the King, which astonishingly excused (that could have led him in prison for life) because his genius was well known, and never made it to the court despite extensive try. We know very little otherwise of the man, he destroyed nearly all his work saved for a few books Marin Marais stole. I'm not sure but the tuning (before this seventh string) was fourth with a major third, like another 6 string intrument you all know. Check anything from Viola virtuso Jordi Savall..... This intrument is thousands time more "human" and richer than the cello it gave birth. It has more polyphony too. One of the best thing I've heard. Olivier still-addicted-to-viola-de-gamba Malhomme From ???@??? Thu Nov 07 02:56:02 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 6 02:29:05 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vL5EG-0001nd-00; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 02:29:04 -0800 X-From_:malhomme@infobiogen.fr Wed Nov 06 02:29:03 1996 Received: from lovelace.infobiogen.fr [193.52.226.4] (malhomme) by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vL5EC-0001n2-00; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 02:29:01 -0800 Received: from localhost (malhomme@localhost) by lovelace.infobiogen.fr (8.7.6/8.7.3/mr-1.11) with SMTP id LAA22336 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:28:54 +0100 (MET) Old-Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 11:28:53 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com Subject: NST improvement again... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Diagnostic: undecipherable, help sent X-Envelope-To: Loopers-Delight-request Sender: SmartList Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 02:29:04 -0800 X-UIDL: d895e66ed5e231c76abb380abb6d0e2c I'm not sure this message made it to the server, so I send it again... I have an information that could be interesting to all people using NST. Replace your high G guitar string wit ha good german quality hrpsichord string. Why? Because the quelity of the steel compares in nothing with the &@@##@ quality of american and sweedish steel we usually have. I won't go into detail, but where you would be stopped at G# (or more) with a guitar string, a harpsichord string will be able to go about two whole tone Higher. I do personnally have a perfect fifth tuning (low to high: A E B F# C# G#) I of course had these problems with G# string breaking and and I could very much bend this string (of course) with fingers or tremolo... To my knowing, the best string is a german one called "Roslow". I use the equivalent of a .008 for my G# wich is (harpsichord are measured in millimeters) 0.2 mm. Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Thu Nov 07 02:56:09 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 6 07:16:48 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vL9ih-0001RR-00; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 07:16:47 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 10:11:02 -0500 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961106101100_1747710850@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: logistics nightmare? Resent-Message-ID: <"NiM9JB.A._HB.ErKgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1048 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 07:16:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 206d8d1373dee2fa78b99e24d07bcd3d Andre: > All right, how many people (including those who have > already replied AND those who haven't put their name > in as interested performers) would prefer seperate > Bay Area and LA gigs, and would be interested in putting > themselves down as performers? I'm in, I hope. And I'd like to think myself flexible enough to be able to do either (or both) of the possible locales. Also: > Mind you, an hour isn't exactly the model of brevity! Well perhaps not. But to drive 400+, miles lug heavy gear with a bad back (remember some of us are no longer as young as we once were), spend 15 to 20 minutes setting up and dialing in a complicated rig (and our muse), for a mere 15 to 20 minute spot does not seem to be that much of a trade off. My wife thinks I'm crazy to do it for a mere hour (3 kids, 18 years of marriage and I still can't get no respect--ha!). I'd do it for the smaller spot, but I'm affraid that I'd just be warming up and have to stop. It's not so much that "brevity" is a problem per se--it's more a matter of "invoking the spirits" (for lack of better terms) that seems to take all of the time (particularly under harried and stressful circumstances). Ted Killian From ???@??? Thu Nov 07 02:56:30 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 6 14:44:19 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLC3d-0001aY-00; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:46:33 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:58:57 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Javanese music Resent-Message-ID: <"hkRFyC.A.t_.IzMgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1049 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 09:46:33 -0800 X-UIDL: 3b816fa0ad920b305ae23bb428cfc773 >There are some definite connections between that sort of music and >looping, I'd say, particularly since most of the Javanese music I played >consisted of what could be described in Western terms as one or two >(occasionally more) eight or sixteen-bar cycles repeated for a looooong >time. Fifteen to twenty minutes was the average length of time for a lot >of the pieces we played. It's one thing to hear an electronic loop >spinning that long, but it's another thing to actually have to manually >play it over and over while sitting cross-legged on the floor. (Ouch). > Gamelan was always a big inspiration to me too. In a similar vein, I spent 3 years playing traditional Zimbabwean marimba music in a band called Balafon, with 6-8 people playing interlocking marimba parts and usually 3-4 percussionists. When you get those long 3 against 4 or 2 against 3 parts really locked up, it can send you to heaven. Even though the stuff I do now is sonically a million miles away from that stuff, it has influenced the how I play in a very deep way, especially when locking up with a drummer. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Thu Nov 07 02:56:22 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 6 13:45:39 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLFmx-0000Pd-00; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:45:35 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:26:02 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: new standard tuning Resent-Message-ID: <"j41HbD.A.kHH.oVQgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1050 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:45:35 -0800 X-UIDL: 0b92fd906976430b090d6017158056b1 Thanks, Michael for: about Fripp's "New Standard Tuning": >I had this musical crisis years ago when I was simply fed up with what I >played. I really couldn't help but notice that my playing repeated itself, >that I used other guitarists' phrases and chords, and I got bored to the >point of almost giving up the guitar altogether. I had that in '84, after a Hendrix phase, I took a one year break and then restarted (with the same tuning) with Loop carpets (no rythm, no melody at the beginning). Maybe its typical for an artist to first learn what others did, then get bored with it and then in a critical phase his personal music comes through. Maybe several such "pealings" are possible? A lot of professional musicians though I admire because they play anything brilliantely, but nothing of their own. So now, I keep repeating myself and simply like it... :-) Matthias From ???@??? Thu Nov 07 02:56:20 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 6 13:45:29 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLFmo-0000Oq-00; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:45:26 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:26:24 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell Resent-Message-ID: <"Ml1fRC.A.ZJH.4VQgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1051 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:45:26 -0800 X-UIDL: f5ef1c5bf94de64661b2905e4147c0c8 >On Nov 3, 7:27pm, Matthias Grob wrote: >> Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell >> Certainly: one of the few female musicians that made it with her own >> compositions and playing, not just voice and beauty. > >Joni is wundergruvie, but Matthias that is one *fucked* up thing to say. What's wrong? Did not understand. >> Badi Assad > >ooh, "Bajee" is bad ya'll. ever checked her out? >I suppose Matthias has probably seen her live being in Brazil. Maybe her >brothers also? Nope. Salvador is more into drumming. But she will appear here, I will help to it. I saw a one hour show/worshop on TV and simply fell in love. There are probably very few guitarplayers in the world who play that disciplined clean and quick and still sing that well and compose and include non conventional playing and singing technics. I saw her playing percussion with one hand, taping the bassline on a classical guitar with the other and singing along with it. And between the pieces she tells all those neat storys, totaly humble and beautyfull . But to get her CD's, I had to order in US, at Chesky : http://www.chesky.com/chesky/programs/engine?SPLASH Get "Rythms", recorded in a church with a percussionist. No overdubbs. No doubts. Matthias From ???@??? Thu Nov 07 02:56:25 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 6 13:46:14 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLFnT-0000SX-00; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:46:07 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:26:44 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"b9XHyC.A.xMH.TWQgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1052 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:46:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 9dd72dbaf3affe3724792b0ecd22e599 >> I would like to have a spiral in the background. >> Anyone knows how to create a spiral on the puter? >> >> Matthias > >what kinda spiral do yah want? QED(quite easily done) How should I explain... Be creative, or give me the program so I can be. Moving in spirals would be the higher dream, but to be able to play around with statics in 3D... Well, maybe I cannot handle that. I should probably think about it more concretely Any contributions? Thanks Matthias From ???@??? Thu Nov 07 02:56:26 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 6 13:46:32 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLFnq-0000Tt-00; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:46:30 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 18:52:41 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: When? Where? Resent-Message-ID: <"3kkHhB.A.4OH.oWQgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1053 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 13:46:30 -0800 X-UIDL: c5ad786e232d706ec212917f8ee6df4f Now I understood, Collier >has rolf ever begun to use email? No. Not very popular in switzerland. >I'd like to contact him, but due to "keine >geld" for the telephono and such, I can't just call him up. Use fax 0041 52 233 3443 say helo Matthias From ???@??? Thu Nov 07 02:56:29 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 6 14:01:09 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLG1q-0001im-00; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:00:58 -0800 From: Jon Morris Message-Id: <199611062156.PAA17333@beacon.moontower.com> Subject: geography To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com (loopers delight) Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 15:56:17 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"AYbLhD.A.yRB.tmQgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1054 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 14:00:58 -0800 X-UIDL: 33d1b1dd047b0c1f08ead3207671d9fd Sorry to bother all of you with this, but considering all the recent talk of get-togethers and such -- are there any Texas-based loopers out there? -Jon jonmor@moontower.com From ???@??? Thu Nov 07 02:56:59 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 7 00:01:40 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLPP9-0006XY-00; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 00:01:39 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <961106215758_1914789081@emout01.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:16:19 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: logistics nightmare? Resent-Message-ID: <"_hF4eB.A.wCE.IJZgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1063 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 00:01:39 -0800 X-UIDL: 09aafbf1886311416ddf038c698faa77 I like these ideas that have been presented: -- separate N. and S. Cal get-together's -- This would minimize driving time and hopefully limit it to a one-day event (2 full, consecutive days of looping could drive me loopy!) -- [sorry...I suppose that pun is ultra-banal on this list.....] -- multiple "stages" to maximize performance time -- The "shifting" stage sounds really interesting. And the 4-way jam is the best part! I can be available for monitoring the audio recording (my DAT is available, as well). A 30-minute performance time would be adequate for me, and I would especially be interested in jamming (and syncing) with others. - chris --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Thu Nov 07 02:57:00 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 7 00:01:41 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLPPA-0006Xd-00; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 00:01:40 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <961106215758_1914789081@emout01.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 20:19:01 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Sync cable Resent-Message-ID: <"ag3FL.A.lCE.HJZgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1062 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 00:01:40 -0800 X-UIDL: 47e28b3bc4b021726b23d900827dcfdb Ted's thought: >4 performers could set up at one time in opposite >corners of the performance space (with the audience >in the middle) and each play his/her set in turn (with >the audience turning their chairs to reorient themselves >to each new "stage." > >4 players at 40-45 minutes each without between-play >setup time could do a 3 hour concert. > >An interesting by-product could be the possibility of a surround-sound group >"jam" to finish off each series of >4 players. got me thinking: For those of us with Echoplex DP's, if we all had brother sync "Y" cables with 1 male (3 conductor) connector on one end and 1 male and 1 female on the other ends of the "Y", then it'd be quite easy to sync many of them together, for events such as this. Plus, headphone extension cables would work for long distance patching. Kim, did Oberheim modify the units they shipped, after you discovered the design flaw [which prevents 4 or more units from brother syncing together]? (or is that wishful thinking....?) It would be wonderful to have folks in 4 corners of the room synced together, co-creating loops! If we each brought the Y cable (for each of our EDP's), a headphone extension cable, and made sure we had the resistor swap, it would be easy. - chris --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Thu Nov 07 02:56:37 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 6 16:34:26 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLIQL-0006Qd-00; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:34:25 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:29:28 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: logistics nightmare? In-Reply-To: <961106101100_1747710850@emout01.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"JRrxaB.A.3wF.12Sgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1055 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:34:25 -0800 X-UIDL: 7a85c53896fb63a5e245fb841af2a81f On Wed, 6 Nov 1996 KILLINFO@aol.com wrote: > > Mind you, an hour isn't exactly the model of brevity! > > Well perhaps not. But to drive 400+, miles lug heavy gear > with a bad back (remember some of us are no longer as > young as we once were), spend 15 to 20 minutes setting > up and dialing in a complicated rig (and our muse), for > a mere 15 to 20 minute spot does not seem to be that > much of a trade off. My wife thinks I'm crazy to do it > for a mere hour (3 kids, 18 years of marriage and I still > can't get no respect--ha!). > > I'd do it for the smaller spot, but I'm affraid that I'd > just be warming up and have to stop. It's not so much > that "brevity" is a problem per se--it's more a matter > of "invoking the spirits" (for lack of better terms) > that seems to take all of the time (particularly under > harried and stressful circumstances). This is a very good point; the main inclination for an hour-long set would be to ensure that all participants had some opportunity to play. But as it seems more and more likely that the "gig" will in fact be divided between the different state regions, it does seem that longer sets would be both more feasible and more appropriate. And I definitely agree as far as the tradeoff of set-up time vs. performance time; I try to operate under a maxim that I don't spend more time setting up and tearing down geat than I spend actually playing music, and hour-long sets could well walk the border for some of us (myself included). And there's no point in creating an environment where everything is so harried and rushed that it's a struggle just to try and get yourself into a solid frame of mind. The flip side is that, as Dave @17 indirectly alluded to, if you've got just four people playing an average of 90 minutes to two hours for their set, and you figure in *at least* a half hour between sets for changeovers of gear (any realistic scenario will probably be more on the order of at least 45 minutes), then you've got somewhere between 8 and ten hours of gig time for four people! This was the main thing on my mind when I suggested the "short" set length of an hour as a guideline. It looks more and more like we'll have to do seperate northern and southern gigs, both for the logistical purposes and for the sheer amount of time involved in accommodating the performance needs of a handfull of people. More problematically, just the fact that the average desired set length seems to be in the 90 minute to 2-hour range means that the whole program will be far too long to stage in a situation such as Nels Cline's New Music night (or any club for that matter), unless the proceedings are spread across several nights or weeks. And then it becomes less of an actual gathering than it does a series of seperate solo gigs. Not a bad scenario by any means, but definitely not the same sort of thing as a summit concert. Damn, it gets complex, don't it? 8-/ Thanks to Ted and the rest for the very astute suggestions. Any ideas on where to go at this point? I must confess I'm a bit stymied. --Andre From ???@??? Thu Nov 07 02:56:39 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 6 17:03:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLIsH-0000x4-00; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:03:17 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 16:59:39 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611070059.QAA11856@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <961105184639_1148257687@emout04.mail.aol.com> Subject: Re: Tape Idea Resent-Message-ID: <"237iuB.A.Es.7STgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1056 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:03:17 -0800 X-UIDL: fd1cbaa33da658cdafe81a15e7eb34d1 PMimlitsch@aol.com writes: >Would it be possible to do the same thing with Zip cartridges and Sound >Designer II files? I can do SDII, but not ZIPs. Data DATs (and audio DATs) are cool. From ???@??? Thu Nov 07 02:56:48 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 6 17:44:43 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLJWM-0004IQ-00; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:44:42 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961107014457.006866b4@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com> X-Sender: cavaleri@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 17:44:57 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Joe Cavaleri Subject: Re: logistics nightmare? Cc: mgregorczik@genscan.com Resent-Message-ID: <"b1KmT.A.3wD.E5Tgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1057 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 17:44:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 8ee5f508e6740666320d3a22e42d90c8 Just a thought.. If and when this performance were to happen, it seems that several performers might set-up on stage in advance. The advantages would be reduced over-all set up time.(There's that damm mfg. language kickin' in). It will also allow the opportunity for some of us to improvise with others. I think the "new music night" in L.A. is a good idea, but I'm open to just about anything. joe At 04:29 PM 11/6/96 -0800, you wrote: >On Wed, 6 Nov 1996 KILLINFO@aol.com wrote: > >> > Mind you, an hour isn't exactly the model of brevity! >> >> Well perhaps not. But to drive 400+, miles lug heavy gear >> with a bad back (remember some of us are no longer as >> young as we once were), spend 15 to 20 minutes setting >> up and dialing in a complicated rig (and our muse), for >> a mere 15 to 20 minute spot does not seem to be that >> much of a trade off. My wife thinks I'm crazy to do it >> for a mere hour (3 kids, 18 years of marriage and I still >> can't get no respect--ha!). >> >> I'd do it for the smaller spot, but I'm affraid that I'd >> just be warming up and have to stop. It's not so much >> that "brevity" is a problem per se--it's more a matter >> of "invoking the spirits" (for lack of better terms) >> that seems to take all of the time (particularly under >> harried and stressful circumstances). > >This is a very good point; the main inclination for an hour-long set >would be to ensure that all participants had some opportunity to play. >But as it seems more and more likely that the "gig" will in fact be >divided between the different state regions, it does seem that longer >sets would be both more feasible and more appropriate. > >And I definitely agree as far as the tradeoff of set-up time vs. >performance time; I try to operate under a maxim that I don't spend more >time setting up and tearing down geat than I spend actually playing music, >and hour-long sets could well walk the border for some of us (myself >included). And there's no point in creating an environment where >everything is so harried and rushed that it's a struggle just to try and >get yourself into a solid frame of mind. > >The flip side is that, as Dave @17 indirectly alluded to, if you've got >just four people playing an average of 90 minutes to two hours for their >set, and you figure in *at least* a half hour between sets for changeovers >of gear (any realistic scenario will probably be more on the order of at >least 45 minutes), then you've got somewhere between 8 and ten hours of >gig time for four people! This was the main thing on my mind when I >suggested the "short" set length of an hour as a guideline. > >It looks more and more like we'll have to do seperate northern and >southern gigs, both for the logistical purposes and for the sheer amount >of time involved in accommodating the performance needs of a handfull of >people. More problematically, just the fact that the average desired set >length seems to be in the 90 minute to 2-hour range means that the whole >program will be far too long to stage in a situation such as Nels Cline's >New Music night (or any club for that matter), unless the proceedings are >spread across several nights or weeks. And then it becomes less of an >actual gathering than it does a series of seperate solo gigs. Not a bad >scenario by any means, but definitely not the same sort of thing as a >summit concert. > >Damn, it gets complex, don't it? 8-/ > >Thanks to Ted and the rest for the very astute suggestions. Any ideas on >where to go at this point? I must confess I'm a bit stymied. > >--Andre > > > > From ???@??? Thu Nov 07 02:56:50 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 6 19:01:18 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLKiS-0002zb-00; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:01:16 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 21:58:01 -0500 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961106215758_1914789081@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: logistics nightmare? Resent-Message-ID: <"pZm1T.A.CoC.CCVgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1058 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:01:16 -0800 X-UIDL: 628c3a29a148c08fc14e12f82c276aa1 Andre, Here's a somewhat simpleminded idea that might work: Let us suppose that a largish room could be had some where (not totally dissimilar to the place you played in last week, but maybe a little more squarish in shape). 4 performers could set up at one time in opposite corners of the performance space (with the audience in the middle) and each play his/her set in turn (with the audience turning their chairs to reorient themselves to each new "stage." 4 players at 40-45 minutes each without between-play setup time could do a 3 hour concert. To do an all-day affair with 8 (or even 12 for a real marathon summit) just continue to do all the setups 4-at-a-time (therby offering some longer intermissions for food and other requirements to the audience). An interesting by-product could be the possibility of a surround-sound group "jam" to finish off each series of 4 players. This may strike some as totally lame...but hey, it's just an idea. Many communities around the area have these "black Box" performance spaces (or at least a few fairly underused theatrical-cum-warehouse-cum-artspaces). Ted From ???@??? Thu Nov 07 02:56:51 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 6 19:14:21 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLKv5-00048y-00; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:14:19 -0800 Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:10:25 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: logistics nightmare? In-Reply-To: <961106215758_1914789081@emout01.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"CnGU0.A.-tD.yNVgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1059 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:14:19 -0800 X-UIDL: 57beb4693a1b5907f8c06b2f6695f2fb Ted and Joe -- Wow, what an interesting pair of approaches. It seems to me that having a mass pre-show setup scenario would solve a lot of problems, and also make for a much more interesting environment. My own sense is that this "sort" of music (if we can make that kind of generalization) is better served in a more immersive space rather than in a club or bar. What do other people think about this? The next step, of course, is to try and find a place in LA/San Fran to facilitate this sort of approach... Great ideas, keep 'em coming! --Andre From ???@??? Thu Nov 07 02:56:57 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 7 00:01:35 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLPP4-0006X5-00; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 00:01:34 -0800 Date: 07 Nov 96 01:50:59 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Message-ID: <961107065058_100041.247_JHB50-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"LIqeP.A.4pE.BOZgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1064 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 00:01:34 -0800 X-UIDL: 89d28ae99ed8ef3ca466b38991aaa118 Olivier about spirals on covers: > Siigggh! If you want a good one I guess we'll have a fractal one > it is sooo fashionable... you probably think of those typical Mandelbrot set zooms which contain spirals. Right? Everyone and his grandfather have these on covers, that's right, but there are other ways to make spirals with 'strange attractors'. When I have time I'll put some together to show what I mean. -Michael From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 00:00:50 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 7 14:29:57 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLcxQ-0000Dy-00; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:29:56 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:46:21 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Re: Mid-Atlantic Loop Show? Resent-Message-ID: <"fXfyfB.A.VB.pImgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1071 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:29:56 -0800 X-UIDL: cfaae0a5041e9bb0a8755e8b1b41c613 >Hi Loopers, > >I'd like to find out how many folks would be interested in participating in >a looped music night in Philadelphia. Hi Jim, Steev Geest and I have a duo Fingerpaint which heavily relies on looping. I'm talking for both of us right now, But I Know Steev will bite. Keep us posted. BTW We live in the DC suburbs. Patrick From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 00:00:12 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 7 08:37:04 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLXRu-0007fC-00; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 08:37:02 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ccnet3.ccnet.com: dmic27 owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 08:28:26 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Michael X-Sender: dmic27@ccnet3 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: logistics nightmare? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"vpYA0.A.NyG.E5ggy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1065 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 08:37:02 -0800 X-UIDL: 595eccd6dc75eab26859c14a9b5f35cf On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, Chris Chovit wrote: > I like these ideas that have been presented: > > -- separate N. and S. Cal get-together's -- This would minimize driving > time and hopefully limit it to a one-day event (2 full, consecutive days of > looping could drive me loopy!) -- [sorry...I suppose that pun is > ultra-banal on this list.....] > > -- multiple "stages" to maximize performance time -- The "shifting" stage > sounds really interesting. And the 4-way jam is the best part! Hello, I also like these ideas - Does anyone have a band or is this going to be all solo performers with mainly the guitar as the instrument? Although I do use looping in my music it is by far not the only thing I do. The group I have been playing in does all instrumental stuff sometimes ambient, sometimes not so ambient. It might be nice to mix it up a little - a couple of groups and a couple of solo performers. Any comments? Doug Michael From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 00:00:23 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 7 10:57:37 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLZdw-0002fI-00; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 10:57:36 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 11:16:22 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: logistics nightmare? Resent-Message-ID: <"CC9CBD.A.vMC.9Ajgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1067 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 10:57:36 -0800 X-UIDL: 29d8d9823bc1e1725c327ba555538ad8 >On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, Chris Chovit wrote: >> I like these ideas that have been presented: >> >> -- separate N. and S. Cal get-together's -- This would minimize driving >> time and hopefully limit it to a one-day event (2 full, consecutive days of >> looping could drive me loopy!) -- [sorry...I suppose that pun is >> ultra-banal on this list.....] >> >> -- multiple "stages" to maximize performance time -- The "shifting" stage >> sounds really interesting. And the 4-way jam is the best part! > >Hello, >I also like these ideas - Does anyone have a band or is this going to be >all solo performers with mainly the guitar as the instrument? Although >I do use looping in my music it is by far not the only thing I do. The >group I have been playing in does all instrumental stuff sometimes >ambient, sometimes not so ambient. It might be nice to mix it up a little >- a couple of groups and a couple of solo performers. > Any comments? > Doug Michael I was wondering about this as well, since I'd be interested in either coming down with a band and/or collaborating/improvising with other participants. I'm just not a solo performer. My band has been planning a trip to the bay area for a while, though we do not as yet have specific dates booked, it'd be great if we could do this and the loop fest on the same trip. Oh yeah, the guitarist, and I do looping, and the drummer does his best to throw us all for a loop... ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 00:00:26 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 7 11:00:26 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLZge-0002r9-00; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 11:00:24 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 11:16:31 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: logistics nightmare? Resent-Message-ID: <"HOUs5C.A.8NC.IBjgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1068 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 11:00:24 -0800 X-UIDL: 0a90090f87eafd3aa6b29980aa351b3b >Ted and Joe -- > >Wow, what an interesting pair of approaches. It seems to me that having a >mass pre-show setup scenario would solve a lot of problems, and also make >for a much more interesting environment. My own sense is that this "sort" >of music (if we can make that kind of generalization) is better served in >a more immersive space rather than in a club or bar. > >What do other people think about this? The next step, of course, is to >try and find a place in LA/San Fran to facilitate this sort of approach... > These are both good approaches because it could balance the desire to get as many people playing as possible with the long time-frame that this music often demands. If we each get an hour, but it's part of a continous immersive music experience, it could be pretty great. Hell, bring some lazers and drum machines, and we could have a rave... ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 00:00:20 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 7 10:50:25 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLZWz-00024j-00; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 10:50:25 -0800 Message-Id: <9611071843.AA06487@acc> Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:41:25 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: jspeer@haverford.edu Subject: Mid-Atlantic Loop Show? Resent-Message-ID: <"6u_B4D.A.rlB.l5igy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1066 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 10:50:25 -0800 X-UIDL: a13115cb5b51be300de52ff1ca963e19 Hi Loopers, I'd like to find out how many folks would be interested in participating in a looped music night in Philadelphia. I've successfully set up some shows on behalf of some small venues in the city in the past, and I believe I could do the organization and legwork for such a show. I'm not a looper myself, but I'm a big fan of looped music. Anyone interested, please speak up now. Drop me an e-mial, or post here. Later! Jim ********************** My Town: Philadelphia! From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 00:00:39 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 7 13:14:33 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLbmR-0003Qo-00; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 13:14:31 -0800 Date: Thu, 7 Nov 96 13:58:42 MST Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: From: "Bret Moreland" Subject: re:Oberheim support change? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"hlbUQB.A.A5C.UBlgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1069 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 13:14:31 -0800 X-UIDL: 2c93dc9d5b16f9a6ed407b30d5d894fd You echoplex users may be interested in what just occurred with me and Oberheim. As you may recall from my plea here for help, I had been in communication with Mike Lyon at Oberheim to get hardware upgrade parts and rework documentation for the Echoplex. At first I appeared to be making progress, then no response from him for 2 weeks. I kept sending Emails, and voice mails pleading for a response, then yesterday thought to copy the Gibson Customers Service (relations@gibson.com). A few hours later, Mike Lyon sends an Email saying he had been out of town last week, but had most of the documents and parts together, the others are on order, expect to ship them to me by the end of this week. Then today I received a call from Kevin Philbin in Nashville with Oberheim Sales and Service. He says he was forwarded my Email asking what was going on (Subject: Is there anybody out there?). I had also stated my frustration when I got no response for 2 weeks. He gave me his extension, and said that now if you call the Oberheim for support it will ring at his desk. I do have his extension: 1-800-444-2766 ext. 651. His Email is k.philbin@gibson.com I don't know exactly what changed in how they are doing Oberheim customer support, but they are appearing more responsive than they were in my previous encounters. It is nice to be able to call the guys desk, instead of only reaching an answering service. Is there a service manual for the Echoplex? regards, bret From ???@??? Thu Nov 07 02:56:53 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 6 19:21:26 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLL1w-0004lS-00; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:21:24 -0800 Message-ID: <32825FF4.6855@erols.com> Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 22:17:24 +0000 From: Michael Preston Reply-To: michpres@erols.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: philsophical background References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"iK3a4B.A.BPE.AUVgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1060 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:21:24 -0800 X-UIDL: d3c0d3ce16896fd9ba878b716a076341 Matthias, You kindly replied: >Is there a way you could pass us a bit more about the essence of these >books, the part that is important to us? I think most of us are not >going to read Heidegger (as far as I know its heavy complext, isn't >it?) to improve their impro. >It could be an essay, a collection of paragraphs out of those books... >Maybe another page on the site: "Philosophical background"? I would >love that.Others would help. Yes, I could make some notes or annotations on these books and essays.It is true that Heidegger's work is difficult. I was once lucky enough to be part of an interpretive community of fellow students that wanted to read big chunks of "Being and Time" line by line, pausing to discuss and react to passages in the text. None of us had an easy time reading it, mostly because Heidegger oddly structures the arguments and invents idiosyncratic terms in order to disclose ways of conceiving of human being (being human) which are not apparent under the standard and transparently ever-present Cartesian ways of conceiving human being. I don't know if reading "Being and Time" has improved my improvising, but it has provided a sort of alternative paradigmatically self-referential view or understanding of all human activity. Many of the people I read "Being and Time" with are artists and performers, so the discussion often ranged over issues of the meaning of artistic activity and expression. read "Being and Time" and ponder Heidegger's idea of "thrownness" with a bunch of fellow travellers, or a good companion guidebook like Hubert Dreyfus' "Being-in-the-World." Anyway, this philosophical background page idea is a good one. I would like to contribute to this. It may take me a long time to come up with something thoughtfully produced which isn't pedantic or otherwise a possible bore, but I'd give it a try, especially if others will too. Here's a sample quote from Francisco Varela, et.al.: "Evocations of Groundlessness: Our journey has now brought us to the point where we can appreciate that what we took to be solid ground is really more like shifting sand beneath our feet. We began with our common sense as cognitive scientists and found that our cognition emerges from a background of a world that extends beyond us but that cannot be found apart from our embodiment. When we shifted our attention away from this fundamental circularity to follow the movement of cognition alone, we found that we could discern no subjective ground, no permanent and abiding ego-self. When we tried to find the objective ground that we thought might still be present, we found a world enacted by our history of structural coupling [acts of meaning-making emerging over time as constructions or traditions of conception and understanding]. Finally, we saw that these various forms of groundlessness are really one: organism and environment enfold into each other and unfold from one another in the fundamental circularity that is life itself." This quote is from the book "The Embodied Mind" by Francisco Varela, Evan Thompson, and Eleanor Rosch. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press, 1991 (p.217). Sometimes the jargon can get in the way, and sometimes it carries us forward: to a deeper understanding of what is common, or strange, or beautiful. More later. Thankyou, Michael Preston From ???@??? Thu Nov 07 02:56:54 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 6 19:42:53 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLLMg-0006lz-00; Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:42:50 -0800 Message-ID: <32826555.1DA@erols.com> Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 22:40:21 +0000 From: Michael Preston Reply-To: michpres@erols.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Javanese music References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"pJQDR.A.tMG.VpVgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1061 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 6 Nov 1996 19:42:50 -0800 X-UIDL: c8459495e266e8432263db7f347ab5c8 Dave Trenkel, I was following the discussion of Javanese music, and I was thrilled to read that you were a member of Balafon! I heard Balafon play in Portland a few times in the early 80s, and you're right: > When you get those long 3 against 4 or 2 against 3 parts > really locked up, it can send you to heaven. It certainly sent me to a heaven-like place on the dance floor. We have a Shanachie CD of Balafon, which was in HEAVY rotation at our house this summer as the best music to dance our infant son to sleep by. I have been fascinated with Zimbabwean music since those days in OR. Over the past three years I have made many Mbira-type instruments, and this summer I made my first marimba. I used maple for the keys, and had some trouble finding even-grained pieces at our local home improvement superstore. It was tough to tune. I love the sound though. I've kept it simple, with no resonator tubes. I'd like to make another one. I'd like to make one of those jumbo Basso-Profundo types. Do you have any recommendations on appropriate woods for such a marimba? Know any good sources for wood and/or drawn plans for marimbas? Fast and bulbous. Yeah. Michael Preston From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 00:00:57 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 7 16:49:54 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLf8r-0001JC-00; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:49:53 -0800 Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 19:46:31 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: ccohen@popmail.voicenet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ccohen@voicenet.com (Charles Cohen) Subject: Re: Mid-Atlantic Loop Show? Resent-Message-ID: <"cQcWcD.A.b4.NKogy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1072 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 16:49:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 9e5e656227593ef44973b5b64ae24675 >I'd like to find out how many folks would be interested in participating in >a looped music night in Philadelphia. Count me in. cc **** **** What's Charles up to? **** **** http://www.voicenet.com/~ccohen From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 00:00:59 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 7 17:46:41 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLg1n-0004nX-00; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:46:39 -0800 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 20:48:24 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Mid-Atlantic Loop Show? Resent-Message-ID: <"8xwYzB.A.zXE.rBpgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1073 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 17:46:39 -0800 X-UIDL: 7561cfda2e978485fea9e4359787eb88 I would be interested in a loop/experimental music forum/show in philly From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 00:01:00 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 7 18:05:13 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLgJl-00061L-00; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:05:13 -0800 Message-ID: <3282945C.4AF7@easyway.net> Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 21:01:00 -0500 From: Jonathan Brainin Organization: easyway.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Mid-Atlantic Loop Show? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"m_Go7B.A.6cF.1Spgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1074 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 18:05:13 -0800 X-UIDL: 15c08006669864790d239106272a5670 > >I'd like to find out how many folks would be interested in >>participating in a looped music night in Philadelphia. I'm interested in a Philly show, but would prefer something in NYC. Is there anyone else interested in NY? Jonathan From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 00:01:15 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 7 20:18:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLiOM-0005Hs-00; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 20:18:06 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 02:18:21 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: philsophical background Resent-Message-ID: <"HnpKtD.A.ZmE.iNrgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1075 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 20:18:06 -0800 X-UIDL: 8c296eb9d8f04934c8fb17ca113d2a3b Oh, Preston ! (Michael is taken, I am afraid and Preston sounds strong, in fact, "prestar" in port. means that something works, has fundament) I had suggested >>It could be an essay, a collection of paragraphs out of those books... >>Maybe another page on the site: "Philosophical background"? I would >>love that.Others would help. And you sent good "demo" bits and agreed: >Anyway, this philosophical background page idea is a good one. I would >like to contribute to this. It may take me a long time to come up with >something thoughtfully produced which isn't pedantic or otherwise a >possible bore, but I'd give it a try, especially if others will too. No hurry, really. But maybe better something simple/short for a start that a huge project that has no "return" for a long time. >Sometimes the jargon can get in the way, and sometimes it carries us >forward: to a deeper understanding of what is common, or strange, or >beautiful. >More later. That's it! Matthias From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 00:01:12 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 7 20:16:48 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLiN2-0005Aj-00; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 20:16:44 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 02:18:28 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Javanese music Resent-Message-ID: <"J_BftB.A.AoE.uNrgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1076 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 20:16:44 -0800 X-UIDL: c803c4275b638429e8682f7ee711769d Preston typed: >I have been fascinated with Zimbabwean music since those days in OR. >Over the past three years I have made many Mbira-type instruments, and >this summer I made my first marimba. ... I've kept it >simple, with no resonator tubes. I'd like to make another one. I'd like >to make one of those jumbo Basso-Profundo types. Do you have any >recommendations on appropriate woods for such a marimba? Know any good >sources for wood and/or drawn plans for marimbas? We sure have a lot of really heavy woods down here (Salvador/Brazil). And my partner Bira builds Kalimbas (=Mbira?) and all sorts of instruments. He has some reasonable (under used) wood working machines. For a resonator he has gourds (is that the big vegetable with the hard, thin shell?). He uses them even for Kalimbas! And of course for the Berimbaos. Hoppi recorded a Bamboo Balaphon. Sounded really good. Especially the loop I taped into the PCM42 while he played. Listen to it and a lot more bamboo instruments on: David Hoppkins "Hear the grass" WERGO @ Harmonia Mundi USA, Mike Skiansky, LA, phone (310) 478 1311. One of my dreams is to build such instruments "solid body" with piezo pick up's. To make the pickups is easy for me. The position of it is easy in case of Kalimba, and a bit more difficult in case of marimba, but still possible. We could install instrument builders courses down here: Beach in the morning, sawing in the afternoon and 'Plex syncing at night! Wana teach? Matthias From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 00:01:13 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 7 20:18:01 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLiNz-0005Fx-00; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 20:17:43 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 02:18:34 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: MIDI Loops Resent-Message-ID: <"PJfeiC.A.spE.8Nrgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1077 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 20:17:44 -0800 X-UIDL: 665a5ae4dc4be1bdf29679619ab023e6 Olivier Malhomme >There is no way to multiply delay while playing but you can choose the >midi channel for the loop, and anything can be changed on the fly >(channel, delay time, repetitions, velocity: you can even have inverse >velocity, no velocity difference, whatever..) Hm... not while playing, but on the fly... I maybe do not understand "on the fly". And why would you change channel? You mean track, maybe? I can imagine to have a one bar delay on one track and a 4 bar on the other and while playing (or just on the fly?) I can change the track and add to the one that corresponds to the actual "musical velocity" I am looking for. And the delay keeps adding notes to the sequencer while recording? Or do you apply the same delay again for "mixing"? Jim comes in: >Not difficult at all. Many are already adding inline midi fx now, >with delays (too short though, and no feedback), and transpositions. Olivier has feedback! And how much delay time, Olivier? >What I'd like in particular is that Digidesign add additive-cycle- >recording to their DAE software so one can loop while recording, >or at least if they'd publish the interface specs to their drivers >so others can. Very much so. Strange that Peter Gotcher, the creator of the enterprise, said in an interview years ago, that he is interested in looping. I wrote him twice, no answer. >> Jim again, full of valuable experience: >> >One can do feedback using Max, but the "code" to do that >> >has to manually remove notes when their volume (midi velocity) reaches >> >zero, otherwise the delay line can end up with a large number of >> >notes that are not played, ultimately slowing down the system. and a bit later: >I may be able to dig out the >essential delay component in the next few weeks. aha! very nice! Why let your creations be covered by virtual dust? And the sequencer delay has this problem resolved? Olivier? Now Paolo comes: >Max was designed to be used by non-engineers, so there are a fair number >of users with no engineering background at all. ... >I think Opcode still considers Max too esoteric to port to the Windows >platform, though. They probably sold 10 or even 100 times more sequencers than Max. The real thing would be with digidesign and audio sequencers like digital performer or logic audio. But to get there we could discover a lot with Max. >Max offers several objects that have the capability of measuring the >time between two successive controller messages. > >> Does it require additional compiling soft or licence? > >I have not written my own, but my requirements were relatively simple. I >know of an entire intepretive language encoded into a single Max object >(the Pyrite object) because someone felt he needed it. So the Max looper should be feasable. Who... ? Maybe we are breeding on a product? Dont worry, I am constantely, even when I make my Maracuja/Banana or Carambola/Umbu/Banana jam (mmmm...) Anyone wants to import exotic natural jam from Brasil? What? Off topic? Ever looped with a spoon in a pan? Jam session! Sorry for my mountain of questions. Matthias From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 00:01:35 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 8 07:08:46 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLsY0-00028Y-00; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 07:08:44 -0800 Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 09:56:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611081456.JAA15874@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: Re: Mid-Atlantic Loop Show? Resent-Message-ID: <"jS8mfD.A.WtB.Tu0gy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1078 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 07:08:44 -0800 X-UIDL: c6a92867b72602e0fa94f7ee700c3a59 philly show??? you can count me in... andre At 02:41 PM 11/7/96 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Loopers, > >I'd like to find out how many folks would be interested in participating in >a looped music night in Philadelphia. I've successfully set up some shows >on behalf of some small venues in the city in the past, and I believe I >could do the organization and legwork for such a show. > >I'm not a looper myself, but I'm a big fan of looped music. Anyone >interested, please speak up now. Drop me an e-mial, or post here. > >Later! >Jim > >********************** >My Town: Philadelphia! > > > > From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 00:01:40 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 8 08:08:56 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLtUE-0004dh-00; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 08:08:55 -0800 Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 11:05:27 -0500 From: RA336@aol.com Message-ID: <961108110526_346924958@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Mid-Atlantic Loop Show? Resent-Message-ID: <"Uw4TMB.A.AOE.Lq1gy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1081 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 08:08:55 -0800 X-UIDL: 83e3f4d1fffe7f0e68a75be40da5193a i'm interested... keep me posted, okay? thanks, robby aceto From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 00:01:36 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 8 07:10:39 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLsZp-0002D6-00; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 07:10:37 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 13:11:45 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"MibL.A.j6B.ly0gy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1079 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 07:10:37 -0800 X-UIDL: 8e61fad562c0bdce534963288e0ee4a9 Somehow we lost track in this affair. I see that there will be beautyfull spirals by Michael and Olivier, Collier and Ray - and I do not even know yet whether you want spirals on the cover. But the idea was to send in our best in <10minutes files and burn them in 2...3 CDRs for anyone (?) sending in x$, correct? Since the CDRs are about $7 and some burn and some more costs will be involved... $10 ea? Or $15 for those who did not send in music? And who would do the compilation? Ray? The latest participants list: Andre LaFosse Dave Trenkel David Kirkdorffer David Orton Doug Michael Jon Morris Louis Collier Hyams Matthias Grob Michael Hughes Michael Peters Patrick Smith Ray Peck Ted R. Killian Todd Madson Andre Cholmondeley Matt McCabe Paul Poplawski That would be 18 (including someone who makes up his mind later). On two CDRs we have 148 minutes or 8.2 minutes each musician On three CDRs we have 222 minutes or 12.3 minutes each musician I vote for the later. It takes 54 CDRs. On a 4x recorder it takes 999 (scary, huh?) minutes to burn them. Say 1080 minutes = 18 hours with exchange and stuff. You will have to be very friendly, Ray, or share the work with someone. I am a bit off axis, but I someone sends me a package with DATs or cassetes or CDs, I glady compile them onto a CDR or even several. But the reproduction does not make sense here because the import of the material expensive. Anyone? Should we wait for the Californian loop shows to happen to see if we profit from recordings there? Or would it be a great oportunity to distribute the CDs amongst the participants? Or would the CDRs be a helpfull base to organize the concert, convince the press, configure the program, prepare for the stage impros? What are the time frames for the project? Everyone his recording readdy? I dont, but I will "just" select and send. Takes 10 days with quick transport included. Another mountain of questions Matthias From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 00:01:38 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 8 07:54:54 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLtGc-0003yN-00; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 07:54:50 -0800 Message-Id: <9611081549.AA01350@acc> Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 11:47:45 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: jspeer@haverford.edu Subject: Re: Mid-Atlantic Loop Show? Resent-Message-ID: <"AySIS.A.cmD.yc1gy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1080 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 07:54:50 -0800 X-UIDL: 4cd6f1cdc8f6dad1c6947153deb855f9 Looks like there's plenty interest in participation! I'm collecting the names of those who've expressed interest so far -- So you'll be hearing from me, don't worry. Looks like we should wait until after Xmas holidays to hold the show. I'll look into likely venues and coordinate back to you guys within a week or so. If you've not yet expressed your interest, please do so and I'll slap you on the list. Jim >philly show??? you can count me in... > >andre > > ********************** My Town: Philadelphia! From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 00:00:47 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 7 14:04:50 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLcZ6-0006QN-00; Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:04:48 -0800 Message-ID: <328366C6.199@erols.com> Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 16:58:46 +0000 From: Michael Preston Reply-To: michpres@erols.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Mid-Atlantic Loop Show? References: <9611071843.AA06487@acc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"FW2Ia.A.ouF.evlgy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1070 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 14:04:48 -0800 X-UIDL: ac64065face5d6047911132842bf5182 Jim, I live in Baltimore. > I'd like to find out how many folks would be interested in participating in > a looped music night in Philadelphia. I'm interested in at least attending loop night in Philadelphia, possibly performing. Performing after the holiday season would be best for me. Thanks for suggesting the possibility. Michael Preston From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 00:01:48 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 8 12:04:19 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLxA2-0002Jv-00; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:04:18 -0800 Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 14:55:11 -0500 (EST) X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Mid-Atlantic Loop Show? Resent-Message-ID: <"kQWyNC.A.F0B.QD5gy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1082 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 12:04:18 -0800 X-UIDL: 4980561cee15a927fc8a0d91be04c557 >Looks like there's plenty interest in participation! I'm collecting the >names of those who've expressed interest so far -- So you'll be hearing >from me, don't worry. Looks like we should wait until after Xmas holidays >to hold the show. I'll look into likely venues and coordinate back to you >guys within a week or so. If you've not yet expressed your interest, >please do so and I'll slap you on the list. > >Jim > > >>philly show??? you can count me in... >> >>andre >> >> > >********************** >My Town: Philadelphia! dear jspeer > maybe Haverford could hold it or what about the International House in Philly ... they have a great space ... looking forward to working on this with you. Paul From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 00:01:53 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 8 13:46:52 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vLylC-00016h-00; Fri, 8 Nov 1996 13:46:46 -0800 Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 13:34:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611082134.NAA18814@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"wqZ49.A.DQ.ne6gy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1083 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 8 Nov 1996 13:46:46 -0800 X-UIDL: 2100a24ca41cfcb8b9c6da619dcd8c9a >Since the CDRs are about $7 and some burn and some more costs will be >involved... $10 ea? Or $15 for those who did not send in music? > >And who would do the compilation? Ray? Yes, I can do the mastering. >I vote for the later. It takes 54 CDRs. On a 4x recorder it takes 999 >(scary, huh?) minutes to burn them. Say 1080 minutes = 18 hours with >exchange and stuff. > >You will have to be very friendly, Ray, or share the work with someone. >I am a bit off axis, but I someone sends me a package with DATs or cassetes >or CDs, I glady compile them onto a CDR or even several. But the >reproduction does not make sense here because the import of the material >expensive. > Well, I sure don't want to burn 54 disks. 18 is a lot. I can master them and make, say, 5 sets to send to other burners, who can duplicate them down the line. If we're happy with nice 300x300 graphics, I can also print 18 inserts. If we're really getting fun, I can also print CD-R labels. Those cost a bit more, of course (I think the blank labels are around $0.50 each). >Anyone? >Should we wait for the Californian loop shows to happen to see if we profit >from recordings there? >Or would it be a great oportunity to distribute the CDs amongst the >participants? >Or would the CDRs be a helpfull base to organize the concert, convince the >press, configure the program, prepare for the stage impros? This is a good question. I'd say let's do one round, hopefully a 2 disk set, and then think about another if the shows actually materialize. From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 16:39:09 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 9 12:19:34 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vMJsM-00071j-00; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 12:19:34 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 18:22:27 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"Or1S3.A.hdG.ZbOhy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1086 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 12:19:34 -0800 X-UIDL: b40c5406b6b79d5f668728293609c9d4 >>Since the CDRs are about $7 and some burn and some more costs will be >>involved... $10 ea? Or $15 for those who did not send in music? >> >>And who would do the compilation? Ray? > >Yes, I can do the mastering. Great! >>I vote for the later. It takes 54 CDRs. On a 4x recorder it takes 999 >>(scary, huh?) minutes to burn them. Say 1080 minutes = 18 hours with >>exchange and stuff. >> >>You will have to be very friendly, Ray, or share the work with someone. >>I am a bit off axis, but I someone sends me a package with DATs or cassetes >>or CDs, I glady compile them onto a CDR or even several. But the >>reproduction does not make sense here because the import of the material >>expensive. >Well, I sure don't want to burn 54 disks. 18 is a lot. > >I can master them and make, say, 5 sets to send to other burners, who >can duplicate them down the line. Who can? Any hands up? >If we're happy with nice 300x300 graphics, I can also print 18 >inserts. If we're really getting fun, I can also print CD-R labels. >Those cost a bit more, of course (I think the blank labels are around >$0.50 each). Great for me. >>Anyone? >>Should we wait for the Californian loop shows to happen to see if we profit >>from recordings there? >>Or would it be a great oportunity to distribute the CDs amongst the >>participants? >>Or would the CDRs be a helpfull base to organize the concert, convince the >>press, configure the program, prepare for the stage impros? > >This is a good question. I'd say let's do one round, hopefully a 2 >disk set, and then think about another if the shows actually >materialize. Reasonable. So the first that send in get on the disc? If I send you a DAT (with two 10min. sound bits to select from) and a check of $20, is that ok? I love this proposual. Thank you a lot! Matthias From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 16:39:08 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 9 12:19:32 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vMJsJ-00071S-00; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 12:19:31 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 18:22:34 -0300 To: deckusers-errors@lists.best.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Wishlist Item # 971: Expand the Library Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"Z1qpQC.A.peG.ibOhy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1087 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 12:19:31 -0800 X-UIDL: bbffb8066b607d153801cb7d2ad972ff Josh anounced: >The Library window becomes DECK's main window, and allows the tracking of >all kinds of different data types. We will allow multiple libraries to be >open at once, with many sort functions. This is a good step toards my old wish of "modular recording": - The clock from a looping unit or sequencer could automatically snip the library into "slices" of some rythmical unit (8 bars for example). Those could then be rearranged easily. - The library could have a "clone" function that alows to automatically repeat a library item onto a track - the easyest way to lay down a background over a longer, defined period. The combination of these two features allows to quickly "compose", using ideas of a free recording or selecting the best of several takes: The musician keeps playing the same bit until he reaches one perfect turnaround. This is cloned, maybe with other parts inserted, to form the background. To create a solo for example, the background slice is looped until the musician feels fine with a version, which then can be placed anywhere in the library and will fit rythmically. The "slice" and "clone" features also will simplify the rearanging of loop music a lot. And there is a lot more in this direction! Thanks for listening Matthias From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 16:39:15 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 9 15:30:43 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vMMrK-0005Ld-00; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 15:30:42 -0800 Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 18:27:57 -0500 From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <961109182756_1584332109@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Bon at D.T.E. Resent-Message-ID: <"pPcGfC.A.h7E.BPRhy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1089 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 15:30:42 -0800 X-UIDL: c45c5be2e10bce9b0b9cb714f988b35e Learned from the fine folks at the Down to Earth Coffeehouse in Mt. Holly, N.J. that Bon Lazaga will be performing solo(?) Thurs. evening December 12. Call 1-609-265-9135 for info. -----Paul (Stick player) From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 16:39:17 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 9 15:44:47 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vMN4w-0005sS-00; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 15:44:46 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <961109182756_1584332109@emout10.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 16:41:48 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: Bon at D.T.E. Resent-Message-ID: <"cgSUdB.A.vYF.uaRhy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1090 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 15:44:46 -0800 X-UIDL: 405d5d42f89dc7e591e69bd2fde8a0c0 >Learned from the fine folks at the Down to Earth Coffeehouse in Mt. Holly, >N.J. that Bon Lazaga will be performing solo(?) Thurs. evening December 12. > Call 1-609-265-9135 for info. > -----Paul (Stick player) I'm on the wrong coast, but I'm interested...I haven't heard of Bon. Could you describe his music? - chris _____________________________________________________ Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov AVIRIS Experiment Coordinator ph: (818) 354-8077 JPL M/S 306-336 FAX: (818) 393-4406 4800 Oak Grove Dr. pager #: (800) 759-8255 PIN 834-3869 Pasadena, CA 91109 _____________________________________________________ From ???@??? Sun Nov 10 00:19:26 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 9 21:25:14 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vMSOP-0000s4-00; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 21:25:13 -0800 Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 21:21:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611100521.VAA29607@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"fRijzB.A.ut.CaWhy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1091 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 21:25:13 -0800 X-UIDL: b61c5ab469895889b41fda01af039297 >Reasonable. So the first that send in get on the disc? >If I send you a DAT (with two 10min. sound bits to select from) and a check >of $20, is that ok? > >I love this proposual. Thank you a lot! >Matthias Um, sounds ok to me, but let's finish discussing this before we start sending money, OK? And it's going to take me quite a while to do this. If performers pay $12 each, I'll make about half the minimum wage for my labor. ;-) From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 16:38:59 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 9 07:39:44 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vMFVW-0005zA-00; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 07:39:42 -0800 Message-ID: <3285AEBC.4E7@erols.com> Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 10:30:20 +0000 From: Michael Preston Reply-To: michpres@erols.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: philsophical background References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"LG4LZD.A.qXF.4OKhy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1084 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 07:39:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 5998eb3851393e48abfeb3145f160eaf Matthias, Okay, Preston it is. I rather like your observation that > "prestar" in port. means that something works, has fundament. I'm glad you liked the "demo" bits, and that you see no need for hurry. I agree that simplicity and brevity are important. The sooner the better. In this project, I will do my best to live up to the port. etymon for my name. > That's it! Whole lotta shakin' goin on. Preston From ???@??? Sat Nov 09 16:39:00 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 9 08:34:37 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vMGMf-0007WC-00; Sat, 9 Nov 1996 08:34:37 -0800 Message-ID: <3285BCA0.1920@erols.com> Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 11:29:36 +0000 From: Michael Preston Reply-To: michpres@erols.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Marimba/Mbira music References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ebsZfD.A.17G.YGLhy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1085 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 9 Nov 1996 08:34:37 -0800 X-UIDL: fe29d3ecf2560a601b7b03101a7c632a Matthias, You wrote: > We sure have a lot of really heavy woods down here (Salvador/Brazil). > And my partner Bira builds Kalimbas (=Mbira?) and all sorts of instruments. > He has some reasonable (under used) wood working machines. > For a resonator he has gourds (is that the big vegetable with the hard, > thin shell?). He uses them even for Kalimbas! And of course for the > Berimbaos. My interest is turned up to 11! Brazil has MANY fine woods. Would Bira take a small custom order for some cut wood? Does Bira also sell any of the instruments he makes? I don't know what the US or Brazilian laws are on such matters. Perhaps it's legally possible? Yes, gourds! I've grown them, and I've used them to make shekere (large African rattle with external woven beadwork). I'd like to make a berimbao one day. Gourd marimba resonators are beautiful. The marimba plans I've seen recommend the use of PVC tubing. Not as pretty, but perhaps more precisely tunable. > Hoppi recorded a Bamboo Balaphon. I will look for this. I'm a big fan of the rhizomes! On the Philooposophy page I will attempt to describe the book "A Thousand Plateaus" by Gilles DeLeuze and Felix Guattari. The book pays homage to the grass, and may be important for loopists. > One of my dreams is to build such instruments "solid body" with piezo pick up's. > To make the pickups is easy for me. The position of it is easy in case of > Kalimba, and a bit more difficult in case of marimba, but still possible. I'd be very interested to know what comes of this good dream. I've used a DiMarzio "Hot Dot" pickup into a feedback notch/preamp called "The Notch" to amp my hollow body kalimbas. It works, but the solid body idea is one I'd like to try. In July I was surfing the net, with Alta Vista, and I found, in a "Marimba" search, a page of pickups for marimba. I wish I had bookmarked it. Perhaps the page would offer some desinger's insights? > We could install instrument builders courses down here: > Beach in the morning, sawing in the afternoon and 'Plex syncing at night! > Wana teach? This sounds VERY good to me! Perhaps building, with some other coursework in Brazilian percussion and guitar playing? With plenty of beachwork and loop studies! I'd rather be a student; some of my best teachers have been my fellow students. Preston From ???@??? Sun Nov 10 13:21:22 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 10 09:12:30 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vMdQr-0005fs-00; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 09:12:29 -0800 Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 12:08:27 -0500 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961110120825_347711350@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"L_vnuB.A.TOF.Jxghy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1092 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 09:12:29 -0800 X-UIDL: 84a08db582f19c7db9dc257a6a0305e7 Dear Loopists, Regarding the Loop-d CD project. I now think that I'm a bit too "swamped" (with pre-NAMM stuff) to contribute anything newly recorded. And, since what I already have "in the can" is with older technology (EH 16-Sec. delays and such). I would like to wait until I've "mastered" my newly acquired Obie EDPs before I contribute any tracks to the CD project. Perhaps after the West Coast Summit Concert I will have done so (enough to confidently roll some tape at least). I'm still "woodshedding" with the new box. I hope y'all can understand. Catch you on the next "go-round" of CDs... Ted Killian From ???@??? Mon Nov 11 10:13:18 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 10 18:29:46 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vMm89-0000Tn-00; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 18:29:45 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 20:44:30 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: CD Clarifiaction Resent-Message-ID: <"73LHkC.A.0P.j5ohy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1102 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 18:29:45 -0800 X-UIDL: f95ab3076561a78d2236fdee9ab795cd There have been so many posts on this matter that I am a bit lost. I gather it is now first come first on, provided one provides $12 per disc they want. Piece must be less then 8 minutes? Am I correct so far? WHo do I send a DAT too? What happens to callers 13, 14, etc? Peace, Patrick Nothing is easy... From ???@??? Sun Nov 10 13:21:25 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 10 12:36:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vMgc2-0003xf-00; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 12:36:14 -0800 X-Sender: jtaylor@popmail.scsn.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: jtaylor@scsn.net (Jay Taylor) Subject: suggestions Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 15:33:05 -0500 Message-ID: <19961110203304705.AAA73@cola87.scsn.net> Resent-Message-ID: <"ss-IxB.A.PnD.Exjhy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1093 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 12:36:14 -0800 X-UIDL: 345ed6e62f82bcf75b94217c4af244f3 i'm a bock and blues guitarist who's been watching this list for a few weeks. i want to check out a few of the loop CD's considered excellent, the electric ladylands or sgt. peppers of looping, if you will. no big deal - i just need a few titles and names. thanks, jay From ???@??? Sun Nov 10 13:21:27 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 10 12:42:01 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vMghb-0004An-00; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 12:41:59 -0800 X-Sender: jtaylor@popmail.scsn.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: jtaylor@scsn.net (Jay Taylor) Subject: whoops Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 15:39:13 -0500 Message-ID: <19961110203912604.AAA179@cola87.scsn.net> Resent-Message-ID: <"Gw5Y1D.A.O2D.y2jhy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1094 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 12:41:59 -0800 X-UIDL: d035b5b35e234edbdcfc8adc5bd2a29a uh - that's rock and blues, not "bock and blues"! Jay Taylor P.O. Box 1333 The State Columbia, S.C. 29201 (803) 771-8549 fax: (803) 771-8430, 8480 jtaylor@scsn.net From ???@??? Sun Nov 10 16:58:17 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 10 13:24:49 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vMhN0-0005do-00; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 13:24:46 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 13:21:06 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Sync cable Resent-Message-ID: <"bRWbrB.A.iOF.8ekhy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1096 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 13:24:46 -0800 X-UIDL: 8438152819a8bcf5cebdfc9dbafb4686 >>An interesting by-product could be the possibility of a surround-sound group >>"jam" to finish off each series of >>4 players. > >got me thinking: > >For those of us with Echoplex DP's, if we all had brother sync "Y" cables >with 1 male (3 conductor) connector on one end and 1 male and 1 female on >the other ends of the "Y", then it'd be quite easy to sync many of them >together, for events such as this. Plus, headphone extension cables would >work for long distance patching. > >Kim, did Oberheim modify the units they shipped, after you discovered the >design flaw [which prevents 4 or more units from brother syncing together]? >(or is that wishful thinking....?) I requested that change, and I'm pretty sure they incorporated it, but its a bit hard to know for sure. If you feel motivated about checking or correcting it yourself, the mod is: change R62 from 2.2k to 10k ohm, 5% resistor >It would be wonderful to have folks in 4 corners of the room synced >together, co-creating loops! If we each brought the Y cable (for each of >our EDP's), a headphone extension cable, and made sure we had the resistor >swap, it would be easy. > >- chris That would be really fun. Definitely an interesting experience, since not a whole lot of people have tried to do that sort of thing! The BrotherSync is there just waiting for you all to explore it and discover what can be done. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Nov 10 16:58:22 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 10 13:43:08 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vMhel-0006I9-00; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 13:43:07 -0800 Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 13:40:37 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: suggestions In-Reply-To: <19961110203304705.AAA73@cola87.scsn.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"MzAB7D.A.n1F.Swkhy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1097 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 13:43:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 34ca903ae92805f1ccbf434dae4396ae On Sun, 10 Nov 1996, Jay Taylor wrote: > i'm a bock and blues guitarist who's been watching this list for a few > weeks. i want to check out a few of the loop CD's considered excellent, the > electric ladylands or sgt. peppers of looping, if you will. no big deal - i > just need a few titles and names. thanks, jay Try these on for size -- "No Pussyfooting" by Fripp and Eno (also available on "The Essential Fripp and Eno," which includes all of "No Pussyfooting" plus several other outtakes.) "What Means Solid, Traveller?" and "Tripping Over God" by David Torn (Good luck trying to find the first one). Any of the solo Soundscape CDs by Fripp; I recommend "1999" or "Radiophonics." I'm not so enamored with "A Blessig of Tears" -- too redundantly syrupy for my tastes. These are all pretty "stock" examples, but these are probably the best candidates for the loop counterparts to the aforementioned classics. There are some other recomended recordings which were largely posted in the first week of the list's existence; check the archive at the web site for that. Happy listening, --Andre From ???@??? Sun Nov 10 16:58:24 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 10 13:45:19 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vMhgs-0006Ov-00; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 13:45:18 -0800 Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 13:42:39 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: FAQ again Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"u1pupB.A.S8F.Zykhy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1098 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 13:45:18 -0800 X-UIDL: 799104b7c5a204c67b6dde995fafbd34 Hey -- I've recieved many useful contributions for the developing Echoplex FAQ, and some new info from Kim regarding some answers to previously untouched questions and even one or two equipment mods. (Thanks Kim!) I'll compile these sometime in the next two or three days and forward them off to the list. Thanks for all the contributions, --Andre From ???@??? Sun Nov 10 13:21:29 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 10 12:59:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vMgyL-0004nJ-00; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 12:59:17 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 19:01:45 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"jV1Te.A.2ZE.1Gkhy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1095 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 12:59:17 -0800 X-UIDL: 2c5e5c0fc2f123a97ba5d9e48f3aeaaf >>Reasonable. So the first that send in get on the disc? >>If I send you a DAT (with two 10min. sound bits to select from) and a check >>of $20, is that ok? > >Um, sounds ok to me, but let's finish discussing this before we start >sending money, OK? Ok, go ahead. >And it's going to take me quite a while to do this. If performers pay >$12 each, I'll make about half the minimum wage for my labor. ;-) Ah, now you come out of the bushes ;-). Sure you deserve 12, no problem for me. Really ok for you? Since there is no way we make some earnings back with this work, its really a comunity thing and we depend on contributions like yours. But we have to honour it - at least. Actually there is a chance that the compilation one day turns into a product, and if its just for demo purposes. Maybe we could fix a real remuneration for participants for this case. But its complicated, heavy some how. And most probably such a next step will be made with new music, all new, all better. Matthias From ???@??? Sun Nov 10 16:58:33 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 10 14:39:16 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vMiX4-0000Lm-00; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 14:39:14 -0800 Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 14:34:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611102234.OAA20065@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"Ul_P_B.A.AM.pilhy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1099 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 14:39:14 -0800 X-UIDL: 644e7ab592f44183f18ca6a6641c8fd7 >Ah, now you come out of the bushes ;-). >Sure you deserve 12, no problem for me. Really ok for you? Since there is >no way we make some earnings back with this work, its really a comunity >thing and we depend on contributions like yours. Yeah, it's fine. I figure it'll take me something like 20 hours to put it all together. I'd like a little something to help pay for the equipment (many kilo-$), if not make up for the time, which I am donating for the cause. ;-) The $50 is so is more of a make-me-feel-good measure than anything else. And it will help me justify spending $400 on the mastering software (Digi's Masterlist CD) that I really ought to use for this project. >Actually there is a chance that the compilation one day turns into a >product, and if its just for demo purposes. Maybe we could fix a real >remuneration for participants for this case. But its complicated, heavy >some how. And most probably such a next step will be made with new music, >all new, all better. I figure that if it ever gets sold, money should go to the performers either equally or in proportion to the length of their pieces. If it's done equally (which I'd guess most would prefer), I'd appreciate an equal share as compensation for putting it together on disk. If everyone thinks that's fair. I figure it will work this way. Send me DATs, plus $12 for each disk you want, with a SASE to send it all back to you when it's done. First 74 minutes of music to arrive here gets on (with a limit per track, let's say 8 minutes or so). People sending me tracks longer than the limit will be putting their fate in my skill as a listener and editor (which seem to be pretty good, but I'd rather not exercise them). If you want me to fade your DAT, that's no problem: just tell me the A-time for any fade-in and the A-time for any fade out. If you want to get precise, send me the times for the start and end of each fade (it's trivial for me to do sample-accurate fades and crossfades). If you want fancy editing, contact me directly (e.g., "take this 20 minute piece, and put together the first and last 4 minutes, with a 30 second crossfade between them, and please take out that click at 3:42, and can you bump up the EQ 4db at 8k?). I can do all those, but it will take me a little time, so let's arrange something privately. People sending me cassette should throw in another couple bucks for me to transfer to DAT and then disk. If they want eq and/or noise reduction and/or BBE enhancement, I can also do that: contact me beforehand if you do. Please label everything *clearly*, as I will have a whole pile of tapes to deal with. I'll make disks for the contributors, and for each of the CD-R cloners. The CD-R cloners will form a tree for getting disks to non-contributors. CD-R cloner volunteers please contact me directly. How does this all sound? From ???@??? Sun Nov 10 16:58:34 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 10 14:55:10 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vMimT-0000wP-00; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 14:55:09 -0800 Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 17:53:03 -0500 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961110175303_1350202104@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: suggestions Resent-Message-ID: <"Jywj4.A.Q1.U0lhy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1100 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 14:55:09 -0800 X-UIDL: 47678b3823e32858d3449a1631664192 Jay, You might also check out any for the half-dozen or so albums by Steve Tibbets on the ECM label: "YR" (released in 1980) "Northern Song" (1982) "Safe Journey" (1984) "Exploded View" (1986) "Big Map Idea" (1989) "The Fall of Us All" (1994) All of his compositions utilize looping in one form or another (processing and/or sampling) in ways ranging from overt to subtle, from simple to very complex. Ted From ???@??? Sun Nov 10 16:58:35 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 10 16:15:05 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vMk1o-0003WZ-00; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 16:15:04 -0800 Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 19:12:27 -0500 From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <961110191226_1915397034@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"G16a0D.A.iPD.3-mhy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1101 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 16:15:04 -0800 X-UIDL: 4d8e559146449c631a7795506edbb734 Sorry folks but when upgrading my AOL I lost the mail concerning the Loopers Delight CD project. Could somebody please answer the following to get me up to date (and maybe simplify things for newbies). 1-Who to send tapes to? 2- Due date for contributions? 3-Fee? Thanks. Take care. ----Paul Mimlitsch(Stick Player) From ???@??? Mon Nov 11 10:13:20 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 10 23:15:44 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vMqat-00030j-00; Sun, 10 Nov 1996 23:15:43 -0800 Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 23:13:40 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? In-Reply-To: <199611102234.OAA20065@pure.PureAtria.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"fW26d.A.KyC.zJthy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1103 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 23:15:43 -0800 X-UIDL: a609f8fb9fb71fdd2888b03ef43065d9 On Sun, 10 Nov 1996, Ray Peck wrote: > I figure it will work this way. [the way it works deleted] > How does this all sound? It sounds *great*. I'm going to have to remove myself from the list of participants, due to a lack of sufficiently interesting loopstuff on tape at this time. But I'd like to get a copy of the CD anyway if that's possible. Congratulations on getting the CD project to this point. --Andre From ???@??? Mon Nov 11 10:13:25 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 11 05:39:37 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vMwaP-0002c0-00; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 05:39:37 -0800 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 08:31:45 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611111331.IAA09838@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: Re: Bon at D.T.E. Resent-Message-ID: <"-_HvdC.A.DZC.pwyhy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1104 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 05:39:37 -0800 X-UIDL: e65de4c733f6dbb3039135995f8cf67a > >I'm on the wrong coast, but I'm interested...I haven't heard of Bon. Could >you describe his music? > >- chris > > it's great stuff.. he was in the late 70s version of prog group gong and did an album called "gongzilla" a couple years back with holdsworth and benoit moerlen. he also has a live duet guitar - ambient/looping album called 'sonic abandon' that's great. the new 'bon' record is fantastic - lots of looped textures (a few by guest david torn), and a lot of burning trio 'fusion', for want of a better word.. also some smooth violin work by caryn lin.. try to reach bon at lolorec@aol.com for info on getting their albums... it's really worth the trip!! also - they are working on another album with Torn as well as sometimes - holdsworth drummer Gary Husband... see ya ___________________________ >Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov >AVIRIS Experiment Coordinator ph: (818) 354-8077 >JPL M/S 306-336 FAX: (818) 393-4406 >4800 Oak Grove Dr. pager #: (800) 759-8255 PIN 834-3869 >Pasadena, CA 91109 >_____________________________________________________ > > > > > From ???@??? Mon Nov 11 10:13:31 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 11 07:44:06 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vMyWq-0006gJ-00; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 07:44:05 -0800 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9611111041.ZM5272@hawk.vlsc.rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:41:24 -0500 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: gear questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"mgT7RC.A.7JG.1k0hy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1107 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 07:44:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 6e53dd385decbb614ade0dcf6a78a110 1) what is a midi mitigator worth? I found one for $150... played with it for a while and decided that price wasn't worth it for me. also, what other midi foot controllers allow for channel change on the fly and controlling of multiple midi units. 2) on the same note... does anyone know of any mods for the old yamaha mfc-1 footcontrol unit? it does some nice simple things, but not enough access and only 2 banks. is there a yamaha mod site? or an engineer that knows how to do this? would this entail software rewrites? and chip burning? 3) any comments on alesis quadraverb 2.0? I used it in a performance next to an eventide H3000 and found the alesis to be quieter and warmer... not sure why, but I was very surprised. 4) found one of the old 16second delays. floor unit with the sliders... guy has $795 on it... I didn't ask if that was a joke. 5) anyone seen any TARA Seymour Duncan Acoustic amps? been looking for those with little luck.(hi ted) 6) any news from the vortex availability scene? guitar center still have 'em? the few I've seen in stories are at retail prices(peak retail!) thanks for your patience, collier From ???@??? Mon Nov 11 10:13:27 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 11 06:53:09 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vMxjY-0004es-00; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 06:53:08 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:55:25 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: list rules? Resent-Message-ID: <"6hl_z.A.SPE.30zhy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1105 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 06:53:08 -0800 X-UIDL: e41ba734faf6b2a97cf10c0f00817211 David blackmails us with his absence ;-) I think he is very right in his points. Let me add one: >1. Make sure the SUBJECT line on your posts accurately reflects what >you're post is actually about. That may mean changing it! > >2. Be careful of re-including great gobs of text if you only add a >one-line comment. > >3. Use e-mail to individuals instead of generally mailing to the list if >you can. 4. Do not use such horribly long subjects. :) Point probably 3. goes for all the "count me in" kind of posts, does it? Does it really take that much time to delete them, David? The danger of "behind" mail is that we may loose track of what is happening - not that bad either... I have similar problems and had to unsub from a forum I liked. I find id hard to trash before read. I do not buy the newspapers because I canot read a few articles and throw away the rest and acumulate them (might be a personal problem, though) %-) From ???@??? Mon Nov 11 10:13:28 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 11 06:53:21 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vMxjk-0004fZ-00; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 06:53:20 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:55:51 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: suggestions Resent-Message-ID: <"7ry_hC.A.WRE.h1zhy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1106 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 06:53:20 -0800 X-UIDL: 4fd8067dbd6d00bd99cc343b7cb40e9d Jay said >i'm a bock and blues guitarist block and rues, you mean? :) I hope you discover also the facilities looping brings for almost any style of music. I am happy that you care for the "original" loop music, but I am also very interested in hearing people create new things apart, like new ways to play "traditional" music. For rock guitar I see the live recording of a harmonic turn around to later solo over it. I does not need to folow imediately. On the ECHOPLEX you could do it like this: press RECORD at the beginning of the riff or harmonies, maybe while singing. press MUTE at the end of the riff to terminate the recording an save it silent. press UNDO to call the riff anytime and let it roll from the beginning, infinitally. or press INSERT to hear the riff once and fall back to silence. With exactly the same procedure you can save a refrain voice and bring it back at the next refrain to sing the second voice over it and so on... Any other suggestions for From ???@??? Mon Nov 11 10:13:35 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 11 08:55:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vMzdj-0002Ez-00; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 08:55:15 -0800 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:49:29 -0500 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961111114929_348125443@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: gear questions Resent-Message-ID: <"gKpLBD.A.71B.Zl1hy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1108 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 08:55:15 -0800 X-UIDL: aaac93e4869f6ecd310d87a322dcc867 Hi Collier > 4) found one of the old 16-second delays. floor unit > with the sliders... guy has $795 on it... I didn't ask > if that was a joke. Actually it's no joke. I owned 2 of them and sold both to a fellow in Toronto for $1750.00 (with six button remote a foot controller that makes it about as easy to use as the EDP). To know the unit is to love it. I had a real tough time saying goodbye to mine myself. All of the hype surrounding the Echoplex as the ultimate looping device finally won me over in the end though. I sold them to get the $$$ to buy the fully maxed out pair of Obies that I got just a month or so ago. Though the EDPs are terrific in several ways that I hope to fully take advantage of, I still miss the ability to simply grab a slider and mess with delay time (and pitch), and the modulation control. Yep, I know they were ancient technology compared to what we now have available, but their low fidelity gave them a charm all their own. And they worked... I owned them for over 10 years and they only went to the shop once. So that price is actually pretty close to the going rate... Ted From ???@??? Mon Nov 11 22:58:13 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 11 11:25:43 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vN1zI-0003na-00; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:25:40 -0800 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:08:36 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner X-Sender: dstagner@icarus.icarus.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: gear questions In-Reply-To: <961111114929_348125443@emout11.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"bYRNQD.A.2ID.Hx3hy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1115 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:25:40 -0800 X-UIDL: c978e8a7760148eba12e8df2de0bc721 On Mon, 11 Nov 1996 KILLINFO@aol.com wrote: > Hi Collier > > > 4) found one of the old 16-second delays. floor unit > > with the sliders... guy has $795 on it... I didn't ask > > if that was a joke. > > Actually it's no joke. I owned 2 of them and sold both > to a fellow in Toronto for $1750.00 (with six button > remote a foot controller that makes it about as easy > to use as the EDP). I sold one myself for $700, without the foot controller (I have plans for the foot controller, if anyone owns one of these units and wants to build one). > To know the unit is to love it. I had a real tough time > saying goodbye to mine myself. All of the hype surrounding > the Echoplex as the ultimate looping device finally won me > over in the end though. Mine bought the JamMan and Vortex I currently use, and a few other toys too. But it broke my heart to sell it, and I'll regret it for the rest of my life. They're really awful in some ways, and wonderful in others. The user interface was brilliant. I must say the Lexicon stuff is more broadly useful (except for losing the great backwards stuff) and sounds much better, but it doesn't have the same character. > I sold them to get the $$$ to buy the fully maxed out pair > of Obies that I got just a month or so ago. Though the EDPs > are terrific in several ways that I hope to fully take > advantage of, I still miss the ability to simply grab a slider > and mess with delay time (and pitch), and the modulation > control. Yep, I know they were ancient technology compared > to what we now have available, but their low fidelity gave > them a charm all their own. And they worked... I owned them > for over 10 years and they only went to the shop once. When mine finally broke, the only way I could fix it was by tracking down Mike Matthews of Electro-Harmonix in Russia, who connected me to Loy Dang, the original designer. Again, if you have one of these antiques and it's broken, I have Loy Dang's address so you can get it fixed. If you have deep pockets or a vintage effects fixation, I suppose getting one of these babies is well worth it. But if you're on a realistic budget, your money is probably better spent on an Echoplex or some other modern toy. I'll admit, one reason I finally sold mine was that I was terrified to own such a vintage piece. I wouldn't take it anywhere to play, because I was afraid it would break or get stolen. I imagine I'd feel the same way about a nice vintage guitar. By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort From ???@??? Mon Nov 11 10:13:39 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 11 09:20:21 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vN021-0003f7-00; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:20:21 -0800 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 12:10:50 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: gear questions Resent-Message-ID: <"ojsa0D.A.gtC.x01hy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1109 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 09:20:21 -0800 X-UIDL: 691c425a8fc43adf752a7f2421168b56 sadly, that's actually cheap for a EH 16second delay ... Paul From ???@??? Mon Nov 11 22:58:04 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 11 10:28:55 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vN16K-0007nT-00; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:28:52 -0800 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:23:36 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: gear questions In-Reply-To: <9611111041.ZM5272@hawk.vlsc.rpi.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"uFbroD.A.QDH.P-2hy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1110 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:28:52 -0800 X-UIDL: 772ff6441dca90c0d39a307de5ec17c0 On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, Louis Collier Hyams wrote: > 6) any news from the vortex availability scene? guitar center still have 'em? > the few I've seen in stories are at retail prices(peak retail!) The Guitar Center in Sherman Oaks (which is where I snagged mine from) still has the $149 price tag. Unless Top 40 radio suddenly starts spinning the radio edit of "Particle Bugs @ Perulia Station" and everybody sudenly trades in their Fender Jaguars and Big Muff pedals for Torn-inspired gear, you should be able to talk a Guitar Center into unloading their remaining Texes at that price. (When I went in to buy mine a month ago, the guy behind the counter quipped, "Great! How many do you want today?") --Andre From ???@??? Mon Nov 11 22:58:07 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 11 10:38:02 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vN1F9-0000d8-00; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:37:59 -0800 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:28:37 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: suggestions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"3vGT9C.A.3M.pE3hy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1111 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:37:59 -0800 X-UIDL: dda67be8ee38ca661a0fb01449c98311 On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, Matthias Grob wrote: > For rock guitar I see the live recording of a harmonic turn around to later > solo over it. I does not need to folow imediately. > > With exactly the same procedure you can save a refrain voice and bring it > back at the next refrain to sing the second voice over it and so on... > > Any other suggestions for Last night I did a guest rehearsal spot for a grunge-type band, sort of a cross between Nirvana and Tori Amos. It was still sort of spacey, ambient e-bow stuff, but it mostly consisted of building up a loop in a particular key and then un-muting it at specific points. For one tune, I had to build up the loop from scratch while the song was starting up, and hope I could get the loop constructed by the time the appropriate section came around. Oh, and since this was going on during the first part of the song, I had the amp turned off, so I couldn't hear what I was doing until it came time to play the loop! Interesting sound, though, combining Frippy stuff with grunge riffing. After adding some e-bow lines to a spooky ballad, one of the people listening to the band commented, "It sounds like Queensryche." We're still trying to sort that one out... --Andre From ???@??? Mon Nov 11 22:58:08 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 11 10:43:19 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vN1KI-00012F-00; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:43:18 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:37:53 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: new web stuff!! Resent-Message-ID: <"QH4Dc.A.Fv._L3hy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1112 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:43:18 -0800 X-UIDL: 8535fcab900ab4dee0c14b67207e0720 Despite having far more than my usual amount of fun this weekend, I managed to put a bunch o' new stuff up on the web page. Huge thanks to Michael Peters, Andre LaFosse, Matthias, and Tom Attix for their contributions and energy!!! First off, we have a cool logo now!!!! This comes courtesy of Tom Attix, thanks Tom!!!!! You can check it out on the main page: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html Next, we've got Andre's growing Echoplex FAQ, html'd by Michael. The echoplex page finally has some real content.... get all your questions answered at: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tools/echoplex/FAQ.html The performance theory thread that Andre initiated a few weeks back was compiled by Matthias and html'd by Michael. Check here: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/archive/filtered/PERFORM.html Plus I managed to add some more of the general list archive, which I'm woefully behind on. enjoy.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Nov 11 22:58:11 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 11 11:10:38 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vN1kk-0002pX-00; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:10:38 -0800 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 10:56:57 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Oooops Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"q_O6sC.A.u7B.wd3hy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1113 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:10:38 -0800 X-UIDL: a00d980d77eff29e6cb2b4da4c57ad82 Folks -- There have been a couple of system crashes at shoko recently, and I don't seem to have a copy of the FAQ anymore. 8-/ Could somebody please send me a copy of the thing so I can add more info to it? Thanks, --Andre From ???@??? Mon Nov 11 22:58:12 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 11 11:22:55 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vN1wb-0003as-00; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:22:53 -0800 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:12:39 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: This is wierd Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"gmiaM.A.m3C.Rs3hy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1114 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:22:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 0a72ec2391cc745795396c60bb4e70b2 OK, I just got a copy of the FAQ in my box. Talk about prompt service. However, it was sent from my own account. Or so the ID on the message says. Now, am I just in the midst of a karmic synergy that has caused the FAQ to magically materialize in my INBOX less than a minute after requesting it (and before the request has even bounced back to me from the listserv), or is there somebody out there having a bit of programming fun? (It should go without saying that I did not, in fact, send myself a copy of the document which I did not have a copy of in the first place.) Might I ask that the clever party come forth, or at least refrain from such clandestine behavior in the future. I do appreciate the FAQ document, but I'm not a big fan of people pulling Port-25 maneuvers and the like. Still scratching my head over this one, --Andre From ???@??? Mon Nov 11 22:58:15 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 11 11:32:52 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vN26F-0004EK-00; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:32:51 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961111193052.00b806e8@pureatria.com> X-Sender: sechevar@pureatria.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:30:52 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Sean Echevarria Subject: Re: This is wierd Resent-Message-ID: <"k-rN4D.A.ZtD.J53hy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1116 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:32:51 -0800 X-UIDL: c201a862682ed2b6360000fdd74e1d3b Andre - Sorry, all I did was use Eudora's redirect feature - it should have put my name after your name in the from field. Sean At 11:12 AM 11/11/96 -0800, you wrote: >OK, I just got a copy of the FAQ in my box. Talk about prompt service. > >However, it was sent from my own account. Or so the ID on the message >says. Now, am I just in the midst of a karmic synergy that has caused >the FAQ to magically materialize in my INBOX less than a minute after >requesting it (and before the request has even bounced back to me from >the listserv), or is there somebody out there having a bit of programming >fun? (It should go without saying that I did not, in fact, send myself a >copy of the document which I did not have a copy of in the first place.) > >Might I ask that the clever party come forth, or at least refrain from >such clandestine behavior in the future. I do appreciate the FAQ >document, but I'm not a big fan of people pulling Port-25 maneuvers and >the like. > >Still scratching my head over this one, > >--Andre > > > > > From ???@??? Mon Nov 11 22:58:22 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 11 11:46:48 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vN2Jj-00056D-00; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:46:47 -0800 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:36:47 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: This is wierd In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19961111193052.00b806e8@pureatria.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"5Rg7AB.A.4TE.BD4hy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1117 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:46:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 3b75c75691157adee159e9724a261576 On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, Sean Echevarria wrote: > Andre - > > Sorry, all I did was use Eudora's redirect feature - it should have put my > name after your name in the from field. Wow. OK, thanks for clarifying that for me. No problem, I was just wondering about that. Ya learn something new every day! --Dre From ???@??? Mon Nov 11 22:58:24 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 11 11:48:20 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vN2LA-0005Cp-00; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:48:16 -0800 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:39:58 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: FAQ 2 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Igacq.A.4eE.AG4hy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1118 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:48:16 -0800 X-UIDL: afa4a9463cb7a5289fffd8b3c51fac6e Here's the latest edition of the Echoplex FAQ! ===================================================================== the now-legendary CURRENTLY UNAVAILABLE ECHOPLEX UPGRADE (and what it does) That's the CU-EU for short.... The bugs are mostly obscure, I think, and for most uses you don't ever notice them. Things like failing to recognize midi note-offs properly, and problems with sample dumps to some samplers with weird implementations. One of the parameters (MuteMode, I think) failed to store itself properly on powerdown. I think 8ths/beat = 1 had a problem generating midi clock right. The occasional reverse pops (fairly rare, but annoying when they happen). I don't have a handy list to paste in here, and those are the noteworthy things I'm remembering. Here's some little blurb I sent to someone about it once upon a time: There are a myriad of bug fixes, numerous minor adjustments and improvements to existing functions, and some great new features as well. Some things of interest are: LoopCopy, Multiple Parameter Sets, Sysex parameter dump, real-time sysex parameter control, noise-gate threshold control, implementation of midi program change for controlling everthing with dumb footpedals, greatly improved sync capabilities, and bunches of other stuff. ---------------------- THE LOOPCOPY PARAMETER Ah, the good old LoopCopy parameter. The parameter itself does nothing in the current software. What happened there was, the ship date was looming, the front panels were already done, and the LoopCopy parameter had not been implemented because we hadn't yet agreed on what it was supposed to do. So we left if for a future upgrade. HOWEVER, loop copying is still quite possible! Its done with what we call "cross functions," where ending one function with a different button press gives you a special function. In the case of copying audio it's the Next-Multiply combination when SwitchQuant is on. You can also copy the time base only with Next-Insert. You do it like this: Set up multiple loops with the MoreLoops parameter. Turn SwitchQuant on. Record a loop in Loop 1. At some point before the end of the loop, press NextLoop. You will see the "ooo" display, which means the function is being quantized to the end of the current cycle time. In the manual, Warren calls this the "Lame Duck Period." If you do nothing more, the echoplex will switch to Loop 2 when it reaches the end of the current cycle of Loop 1. We are going to do something though, since we have several special funcitons available during this waiting period, one of which is LoopCopy. So: While the "ooo" display is on, press Multiply. Now when you reach the end of Loop 1, the echoplex will jump to Loop 2 and begin copying the audio from Loop 1. You will essentially be in the multiply function, with Loop 1's audio being multiplied in Loop 2. While the loop is copying, overdub is essentially on, so any playing you do is added to the loop. (just like in multiply) Repetitions of Loop 1 will continue to be added to Loop 2 until you end the function. (also like multiply) End the copy by pressing multiply at some point before the end of the last repetition you want. The Echoplex will round off to the end of the cycle and begin looping the copied audio and any overdubs you made. (again, just like multiply) This seems a bit complicated when written out, but its actually pretty easy and intuitive to use. I use it all the time, and its one of my favorite Echoplex functions. I can record 1 bar of music in loop 1, Press Next-Multiply to start copying it in loop 2, overdub a melody while 4 repetitions of the loop are copied, and end with another press of multiply, all in just 3 button presses! You can also choose the loop to copy to by pressing NextLoop several times before pressing multiply. So to copy Loop 1 to Loop 4, I would press Next-Next-Next-Multiply. And it all happens seemlessly to an observer, so its very usable in musical situations. Give it a try! This is actually explained in the manual. Its non-intuitively located in the description of the SwitchQuant parameter. In the new upgrade, the mythical LoopCopy parameter has finally become real. Its function is similar to AutoRecord, where the Echoplex automatically copies the loop when you switch to a reset loop. The parameter values are off, sound, and time. Its quite useful in some situations, although I actually prefer the old way most of the time. =========================================================================== ECHOPLEX MIDI SYNCING Yes, you can have the sequencer generate midi clock, and sync to that. You can set the length the loop will be in relation to the sequence tempo, so for instance you can make your loop equal 8 beats, 7 beats, 3 eighths, whatever. The echoplex, once it is synced, will stay locked to the sequencer and not drift. This works reasonably well in the current shipping software, and the not-yet-shipping upgrade has many improvements in this area. To do it: Set the sync parameter to "in" Make sure you have the echoplex in reset, and midi out from sequencer is in midi in of the 'plex. Make sure your sequencer is set to generate clocks. Start the sequencer. It will send midi clocks, which the echoplex will happily monitor. If you look at the display, you will see a little dot flash at the sync interval. This interval is determined by the 8ths/beat parameter, which basically tells the echoplex how many 8th notes will be in the basic loop cycle. Press record, the echoplex starts recording. (If you are using the quantize function, its a bit different. I'll explain below) You have to wait until after the clock starts to start record. Otherwise the echoplex doesn't know its supposed to be syncing to something. Play stuff, press record again. The echoplex will continue recording until the loop is the appropriate length, end the recording automatically, and start looping. Your loop should be in time with your sequence. If you use the quantize function, which basically quantizes the timing of your echoplex actions, the echoplex will wait until the next sync interval to start its recording. This way your loops are not only the proper length, but the beginning point of the loop is right at the beginning of the measure in the sequence. Hopefully that makes some sense. (its quarter to 3am, I'm a tad groggy...) Play around with it, the practical experience will make it more obvious. I use this technique for live type playing a lot, to sync my loops to drum machines. One thing that is fun to experiment with is to use 8ths/beat to set the meter of your loops to be different from the meter of the sequence. So you can get 3 verses 4, say. One thing I've had a lot of fun with is to take a two bar drum machine groove and record it into an echoplex that is synced to it, with the echoplex's 8ths/beat set to 15, for example. So I record 15 of the 16 eighths in the drum pattern, and loop that along with the original. With the loop shifting one eighth each time through, the simple little drum machine suddenly sounds remarkably creative! Another thing to try is syncing multiple echoplexes together with different 8ths/beat, to get fripp-like multi loops going where the different loops are related by some ratio. Using the echoplex to generate midi clocks and control a sequencer is also really fun. Basically, set things up the reverse of before. Sync=out, midi out of echoplex to midi in of sequencer. Hit record, play your thing, hit record again. The echoplex will then generate midi clock and send a start-song message to the sequencer. The sequencer should then start, in time with the thing you just played. I also do this with drum machines, so the pattern comes in at the tempo I just played. I showed Neal Schon how to do this and he went into his studio and riffed away with his rhythm machine 8 hours a day, every day, for months. (writing material for the upcoming Journey album that I'm sure you're all dying to get ;-) ) Its real fun to have the sequence kick in with you like that. Its just like having a real band, except they actually listen to the tempo you set and don't mind if you make them start over 300 times while you refine your guitar riffs. ------------------------------------------------------------- THE INTERNAL "COMPRESSOR" AND INPUT/OUTPUT GAIN MODIFICATIONS Compressor?! Well, there sort of is, but not really. We have a hardware limiter in there, but it never actually worked right, so we didn't bother to tell anyone about it. I think it might come on at some point, probably keeping an already distorting signal from distorting even more. The threshold is frequency dependant. So for a full range signal it works, but for a high pitched or attacky signal, it does not prevent from distortion. The A/D converter can only deal with signals up to a particular amplitude. Anything beyond that causes ugly distortion. Signals with a lot of high frequency components tend to distort more. If you are getting distortion from the echoplex, your input is too loud!!! You should set the input level so that the loudest signal you ever put in does not cause the converter to distort. The input LED should help you here. You should never see it turn red, that is much too loud. The best point is for the loudest signal to cause the input to just turn orange. There is a circuit in the Echoplex that would be a limiter if it actually worked. Since it doesn't work, calling it a limiter is not really correct. In fact, discussing it at all is sort of pointless. The purpose of having the limiter is to save people who set the levels wrong from experiencing obnoxious digital distortion in their loops. (make the machine smart so the user can be stupid) Limiting just makes the overload condition more palatable. But really, limiting is still a form of distortion, and if you were engaging the limiter all the time you would still be complaining about the sound and I would still be telling you to turn the input level down. Another solution, which I prefer, is to modify the input so that it has considerably less gain available. This is easily done by changing a couple of resistors. That way you are much less likely to turn it up enough to distort the input. This also makes the input level knob more useful since more of its range is available. With this mod you also increase the available output gain to compensate for the lower input. In fact, you increase the output enough to correct another common echoplex complaint, which is that the output level is too weak. With the mod the echoplex can work in -10dBu or +4dBu systems without any problem. To make the gain changes: Change R30 from 82.5 K to a 22.1 K 1% metal film resistor Change R10 from 2.21 K to a 10.0 K 1% metal film resistor This increases output gain and reduces input gain, respectively. The input section does have a lot of gain available. Probably too much. The reason for this was to allow a wide variety of inputs. We thought it would be great if low level signals, like mics, could be used with the echoplex without requiring a preamp. In retrospect, this doesn't seem like such a great idea, since most people using mics or other low level signals have preamps for them and would probably prefer that over the echoplex preamp anyway. The number of people having trouble with distortion from turning the input up too much is probably much greater than the number that found it useful. ----------------------- NOISEGATE AND THRESHOLD The parameter called "threshold" is only for starting a record when you actually start playing. The noisegate is different. It's on all the time and has nothing to do with the "threshold" setting. The noisegate is there to make Undo a much more usable function, so that each press of Undo takes away a real overdub rather than some unintentional noise. It also keeps the echoplex from squandering its memory. Matthias and I have discussed ways to make the noisegate smarter, as well as adding a parameter for it. Its tricky, since the user can cause himself troubles with the undo function without realizing it. --------------------------------------------------- FEEDBACK DEGENERATION WHEN CONTROLS ARE SET TO 100% This is a problem that was definitely there on prototypes, and at some point it was fixed. I have to get Matthias' help here, because some of it was a software problem, and I'm not sure when it got fixed. I know that with the mythical upgrade, this doesn't happen. Thing is, it doesn't necessarily happen with the shipping software either. My uncertainty is because I think there were several different problems which caused this. One of them may have been the thermal/cut-the-ic-pin problem. That particular chip handles both the front panel switches and the feedback knob, so I think that the same sort of conditions that cause the Undo button to freak out also might cause loop degrading. I never had a chance to verify that, so I don't know, but cutting that pin certainly won't hurt and might fix this for you. The other bit of uncertainty is that there actually was a software upgrade very early in the echoplex production. You can see the software version when you turn the power on, the current software will show LD3 3.2. The first 60-100 units had an earlier version, LD3 3.0. Unfortunately, I don't remember what was fixed in this upgrade. Could have been the loop degradation, but I don't know. (Matthias elaborates:) There is a calculation bug in the feedback path. It appears only after a lot of repetitions, and only if AutoUndo cannot act, which means: Only if the loop is longer than half the memory. The upgrade fixes this. -------------------------- STATIC FROM THE FOOT PEDAL This came from Bret Moreland, who lives in Denver, Colorado. The altitude of that city is very high and the air is very dry. Static electricity is a very common phenomenon there, much more so than in other parts of the world. (They also have some truly spectacular lightning) Electronics equipment can be quite sensitive to static electric discharges, and Denver is the sort of place where you discover that. Bret experienced a problem where a static shock from his foot to the echoplex footpedal caused the loop to freak out. I realized this had to do with the manner in which the footpedal chassis is grounded. Static electic discharges seek the easiest path to earth ground. When a charge hits the footpedal chassis, it's only path is up the cable and through the echoplex. This apparently causes a voltage spike which freaks out the Echoplex's processor. There are two solutions to this. One is to give a charge hitting the footpedal chassis an easier path to earth ground than through the rack unit. You would do this by connecting one end of a grounding strap to the footpedal chassis and the other end to an earth ground somewhere. (water pipe, earth ground in the electrical wiring, even the echoplex rack unit's chassis) The other solution is to isolate the jack on the footpedal from the footpedal chassis, so that an electric charge hitting the footpedal chassis does not have a path to the rack unit. You can do this with isolating washers or plastic chassis mounting jacks. ------------------------------- THE THERMAL/IC PIN MODIFICATION There was a small design error that caused strange behaviors when the Echoplex was hot. The usual symptom was that pressing the Undo button would execute Record instead. Basically, a pin on one of the IC's was connected to +5 volts when it shouldn't have been connected to anything. This didn't have any effect normally, but when the unit got hot you would see the problem. Cutting the pin fixes the problem, and the Echoplex works fine at much higher temperatures. Newer units should have this fixed. I don't know which serial numbers would have the mod, but probably any unit newer than 9 months. You can do the mod yourself pretty easily if you feel comfortable working on electronics. You just need to cut pin 5 of U12, the IC with part number ADC0804. If you are facing the front of the unit, pin 5 would be the 5th pin from the left end of the chip, on the front panel side. If you don't think you can do it yourself, any competent electronics tech should be able to handle it. ------------------------------------------------- PROBLEMS STILL AWAITING EXPLANATION/CLARIFICATION "Lately, my problem has been the start point of the loops moving when I use next loop a lot. After creating 2 loops, and enhancing them with multiply and overdub, I nextloop from one multiple in loop 1 to a single multiple in loop 2, and repeat. Eventually the start point of these loops move, and I have to reset the start points manually." From ???@??? Mon Nov 11 22:58:29 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 11 11:51:50 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vN2Oc-0005UR-00; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:51:50 -0800 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:46:28 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: TIPS AND TRICKS DOCUMENT Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"bkZD0.A.N6E.QM4hy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1120 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:51:50 -0800 X-UIDL: 9b5b9959bbdab2b529fac14860613f89 Fellows and others: I recieved a few interesting posts from people for inclusion in the FAQ. I didn't include them in the just-sent FAQ 2 because they didn't seem to be frequently-asked technical questions as such (and one of them was non-Echoplex specific). However, since Kim has a space on the web site devoted to "Tips and tricks," I thought it would make sense to start compiling something for that. I've re-posted Kim's tutorial on MIDI sync here as well as in the FAQ, since any convergence of Echoplex and MIDI seems to lead to one headache or another. In the immortal words of John Lydon, "Enjoy or die!" ============================================================== FEEDBACK USE TECHNIQUES by Matthias Grob The Plex uses a 256 step value and filters it almost evey sample so you can smothly and quickly change it. I strongly suggest a pedal. In longer loops you maybe want to grow only a part of it: For example: Open +Overdub+ and reduce Feedback while opening the volume pedal so the sound you hear from the Loop will be replaced next time around by the one you fade in now. Not very difficult to imagine how it will sound. Then as your note fades, you open Feedback again and have a phase of the loop as it was before. +Replace+ is a function we have for this, but is to hard for most aplications because it chops off/on. With the FB pedal, you do it more creative and smooth. Sometimes in long loops (like 25sec) I start increasing the dynamics every turn around, rather taking back one part and then crescendo in to the full part... As it does not make sense to infinitally increase the content of the memory, we reduce automatically the FB a little while +Overdub+ is on. This prevents from the worst noises when somebody forgets +Overdub+ on. When you reduce FeedBack, **reduce loop time, too!** (Million times executed experience - how it works for me): Most music (and stories in general) has its static phase (contemplation, solo) and its dynamic phases (walking, discovering). Obviously, FB open is for the static and reduced for the dynamic phase. Since in the static phase you have time, you will multiply and increase loop time to make the loop more interesting, maybe less obvious. Then, when you enter a dynamic phase, its a drag, because changes take to long, or take a too radical reduction of FB which cuts the flow. So you reduce FB little, but also reduce loop time! If the loop is rather an educated one with a harmony sequence, built with +Multiply+, you will aply +Multiply+ by 1 or 2 when the basic harmony comes back. The loop stays on this base, maybe 4 or 8 times shorter, which gives you the chance to change it gradually and then build (use +Multiply+ again) a new harmony sequence. If the loop is rather of the anarchistic/ambient kind, you can reduce it with +Unrounded Multiply+, which is called by the RECORD following the MULTIPLY key. This way you can cut out any bit, as short as you want, mayb even aplying +Unrounded Multiply+ 2 or 3 times in a row, to really chop up the worm before the part with the heart grows again with more heads even... urgh, ahem,,,;-) ======================================================================= NON-ECHOPLEX SPECIFIC DELAY TRICKS by Chris Chovit I use a counting method with a guitar (could be any instrument, though) & delay, which may be of interest, so I will try to communicate it here: Set delay to repeat only one time (ie. feedback at minimum), with a delay ~700 - 1000 ms (any longer can be done but it gets tricky). For this discussion I will use a 750 ms delay. (To get the feel for the delay time, I usually start out strumming muted strings, with quick, sharp strums). Break the delay time into an integer number of beats -- lets say 3. So, for this case strum every 250 ms. Now, play notes, instead of strum. Play a 4 note, repeating meoldy (ie. repeats every 1000 ms). Let s say the meoldy is DO RE ME FA. So, if we write the pattern on a time scale we get (you might need to stretch your window size to view this correctly): TIME 0 250 500 750 1000 1250 1500 1750 2000 BEATS 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 PLAY DO RE ME FA DO RE ME FA DO DELAY DO RE ME DO RE This creates an interesting harmonizing relationship between the performed notes and the delays. Now, play the notes of the melody on every 2nd beat (ie. half as fast), so you get: TIME 0 250 500 750 1000 1250 1500 1750 2000 BEATS 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 PLAY DO RE ME FA DO DELAY DO RE ME This creates an interesting "dynamic" pattern between the performed notes and the delay, like a question/answer type thing. Many of you probably get these rhythms, without counting it out. But counting it out has helped me to get some more complicated rhythms, that I wouldn't have been able to get otherwise. To communicate the pattern, I could use 3 numbers: Number of beats per delay time Number of beats between performed notes Number of notes in (repeated) melody So, for the first example, I would write it as (3, 1, 4). For the second example, I would write it as (3, 2, 4). It is the relationship of the first two numbers that creates the rhythmic quality. The third number will just affect the harmonic relationships, not the rhythmic relationships I have really enjoyed trying some more complex rhythms: (Let X = 1, for starters, ie. just repeat one note, or strum) (4, 5, X); (5, 4, X); (3, 5, X); (5, 3, X); (5, 2, X); (2, 5, X); (6, 5, X); (5, 6, X) ....etc. Some of these are tricky to play. It's easier with a sequencer and a delay that you can "dial in" the exact delay time. I just use a Jam Man though. For the larger first numbers, I use longer delay times. If the first number is 8 and my delay time is 1600 ms, I might strum every 800ms, then every 400 ms, then finally every 200 ms -- instead of trying to break 1600 ms up into 8 parts right off the bat. =========================================================================== ECHOPLEX MIDI SYNCING by Kim Flint Yes, you can have the sequencer generate midi clock, and sync to that. You can set the length the loop will be in relation to the sequence tempo, so for instance you can make your loop equal 8 beats, 7 beats, 3 eighths, whatever. The echoplex, once it is synced, will stay locked to the sequencer and not drift. This works reasonably well in the current shipping software, and the not-yet-shipping upgrade has many improvements in this area. To do it: Set the sync parameter to "in" Make sure you have the echoplex in reset, and midi out from sequencer is in midi in of the 'plex. Make sure your sequencer is set to generate clocks. Start the sequencer. It will send midi clocks, which the echoplex will happily monitor. If you look at the display, you will see a little dot flash at the sync interval. This interval is determined by the 8ths/beat parameter, which basically tells the echoplex how many 8th notes will be in the basic loop cycle. Press record, the echoplex starts recording. (If you are using the quantize function, its a bit different. I'll explain below) You have to wait until after the clock starts to start record. Otherwise the echoplex doesn't know its supposed to be syncing to something. Play stuff, press record again. The echoplex will continue recording until the loop is the appropriate length, end the recording automatically, and start looping. Your loop should be in time with your sequence. If you use the quantize function, which basically quantizes the timing of your echoplex actions, the echoplex will wait until the next sync interval to start its recording. This way your loops are not only the proper length, but the beginning point of the loop is right at the beginning of the measure in the sequence. Hopefully that makes some sense. (its quarter to 3am, I'm a tad groggy...) Play around with it, the practical experience will make it more obvious. I use this technique for live type playing a lot, to sync my loops to drum machines. One thing that is fun to experiment with is to use 8ths/beat to set the meter of your loops to be different from the meter of the sequence. So you can get 3 verses 4, say. One thing I've had a lot of fun with is to take a two bar drum machine groove and record it into an echoplex that is synced to it, with the echoplex's 8ths/beat set to 15, for example. So I record 15 of the 16 eighths in the drum pattern, and loop that along with the original. With the loop shifting one eighth each time through, the simple little drum machine suddenly sounds remarkably creative! Another thing to try is syncing multiple echoplexes together with different 8ths/beat, to get fripp-like multi loops going where the different loops are related by some ratio. Using the echoplex to generate midi clocks and control a sequencer is also really fun. Basically, set things up the reverse of before. Sync=out, midi out of echoplex to midi in of sequencer. Hit record, play your thing, hit record again. The echoplex will then generate midi clock and send a start-song message to the sequencer. The sequencer should then start, in time with the thing you just played. I also do this with drum machines, so the pattern comes in at the tempo I just played. I showed Neal Schon how to do this and he went into his studio and riffed away with his rhythm machine 8 hours a day, every day, for months. (writing material for the upcoming Journey album that I'm sure you're all dying to get ;-) ) Its real fun to have the sequence kick in with you like that. Its just like having a real band, except they actually listen to the tempo you set and don't mind if you make them start over 300 times while you refine your guitar riffs. From ???@??? Mon Nov 11 22:58:28 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 11 11:49:39 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vN2MV-0005LO-00; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:49:39 -0800 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 13:46:47 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner X-Sender: dstagner@icarus.icarus.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: gear questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"38Z21B.A.4yE.wK4hy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1119 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 11:49:39 -0800 X-UIDL: 694e0d2b44ac91a55485af464643cc8b On Mon, 11 Nov 1996, Paul Poplawski, Phd wrote: > sadly, that's actually cheap for a EH 16second delay ... > Yeah, but I wanted mine to go to an actual musician who would play it, rather than just gathering value and dust on some collector's shelf. And I have to say, now that I've gone completely acoustic with my setup, I'm MUCH happier with the Lexicon stuff. I'm mixing piezo and microphone pickups, and the Vortex is very respectful of my original signal. I think I need a good limiter, though. The high dynamics abuse the Vortex front end pretty bad. By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort From ???@??? Mon Nov 11 22:58:46 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 11 21:55:21 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vNBod-0001UT-00; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 21:55:19 -0800 Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 21:50:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611120550.VAA05639@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: CD Clarifiaction Resent-Message-ID: <"g9RIrB.A.3LB.sBBiy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1121 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 21:55:19 -0800 X-UIDL: e98f83efedd43cfbda3d4f99e2669d30 Patrick Smith writes: >There have been so many posts on this matter that I am a bit lost. I gather >it is now first come first on, provided one provides $12 per disc they >want. Piece must be less then 8 minutes? That was my proposal. From ???@??? Mon Nov 11 22:58:47 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 11 22:24:46 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vNCH3-0003f8-00; Mon, 11 Nov 1996 22:24:41 -0800 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 01:21:01 -0500 (EST) From: JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com Subject: Re: gear questions To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <01IBQO1VEY209850IG@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Resent-Message-ID: <"XGYLlC.A.GND.BeBiy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1122 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 22:24:41 -0800 X-UIDL: 024c63cf55f5b6c36fb0076cc4c2897c >Louis Collier Hyams wrote, in part: >6) any news from the vortex availability scene? guitar center still have 'em? the few I've seen in stories are at retail prices(peak retail!) Guitar Center/North Houston had six left last Friday. I persuaded my wife on Saturday that I really wanted one, and she said yes! So I picked one up, but didn't ask how many remained. Phone for the GC NHou store is (713)537-9100; lemme know if you need any other GC numbers. This is my delurk--Hi everyone, and thanks for turning me from a loopist wannabe into a (novice) loopist! More later... John Email: johnpollock@delphi.com Troubador Tech on the Web--http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/ From ???@??? Tue Nov 12 01:46:53 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 12 00:39:11 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vNENC-0003ID-00; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 00:39:10 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 00:35:33 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: re:Oberheim support change? Resent-Message-ID: <"dpZigC.A.0-C.RdDiy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1123 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 00:39:10 -0800 X-UIDL: b2f0eb46cba5cbef8e86210eb1644a6a Bret said: >You echoplex users may be interested in what just occurred with me and >Oberheim. > >Then today I received a call from Kevin Philbin in Nashville with Oberheim >Sales and Service. He says he was forwarded my Email asking what was >going on (Subject: Is there anybody out there?). I had also stated my >frustration when I got no response for 2 weeks. He gave me his extension, >and said that now if you call the Oberheim for support it will ring at >his desk. I do have his extension: 1-800-444-2766 ext. 651. His Email >is k.philbin@gibson.com > >I don't know exactly what changed in how they are doing Oberheim customer >support, but they are appearing more responsive than they were in my >previous encounters. It is nice to be able to call the guys desk, instead >of only reaching an answering service. I think this is a much better way to get customer support on Oberheim products. It's the way support is set up to work at Gibson. If you call the customer support people you get trained support professionals, who actually care about your problem and will work with you to fix it. If you call Oberheim, you get people concerned about whether parts are coming in on time, or the accounting, or whether a shipment is boxed up for the ups truck. Not only is your problem way down their list of priorities (because its someone else's job), they probably don't know the answer anyway. Its not that they don't care, they just don't have time for it. >Is there a service manual for the Echoplex? Sadly, we never made one. G-wiz was in start-up mode at the time, and documentation was not one of our stong points.... Techs at Oberheim may have made something at some point, but I never heard about it. ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Nov 12 01:46:55 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 12 01:16:41 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vNExU-0005C1-00; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 01:16:40 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 01:38:22 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"_CUhhB.A.vyE.zAEiy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1124 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 01:16:40 -0800 X-UIDL: 979f2c39eb400bfe6bc60029c3982628 >>>Since the CDRs are about $7 and some burn and some more costs will be >>>involved... $10 ea? Or $15 for those who did not send in music? >>> >>>And who would do the compilation? Ray? >> >>Yes, I can do the mastering. > >Great! > >>>I vote for the later. It takes 54 CDRs. On a 4x recorder it takes 999 >>>(scary, huh?) minutes to burn them. Say 1080 minutes = 18 hours with >>>exchange and stuff. >>> >>>You will have to be very friendly, Ray, or share the work with someone. >>>I am a bit off axis, but I someone sends me a package with DATs or cassetes >>>or CDs, I glady compile them onto a CDR or even several. But the >>>reproduction does not make sense here because the import of the material >>>expensive. > >>Well, I sure don't want to burn 54 disks. 18 is a lot. >> >>I can master them and make, say, 5 sets to send to other burners, who >>can duplicate them down the line. > >Who can? Any hands up? I have access to a CD-R at work, so I could do a few copies, maybe 5 to 10. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Tue Nov 12 10:12:24 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 12 02:09:31 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vNFmc-0006eU-00; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 02:09:30 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 02:31:13 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: [Fwd: Recombinant 96 (Live Events from Asphodel Records)] Resent-Message-ID: <"j1zFjB.A.CMG.WyEiy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1125 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 02:09:30 -0800 X-UIDL: 25497e308267ba99ebe4918a4c3541d3 Hey, I came across this in a newsgroup, and thought Bay Area Loopers may be interested. If I wasn't in the middle of a work crunch right now, I'd be pretty tempted to check this out myself... > >+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > Asphodel Records Presents > > RECOMBINANT '96 > > A Convergence of Audio/Visual Mixology > > ---> VISIT ><---- > ---> http://www.sombient.com/stc/recombinant/ <---- > ---> FOR MORE INFO <---- > >+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > RECOMBINANT is an unusual live exploration of audio/visual >resynthesis and abstrakt mood sculpture illustrating the next >step in mixology through a "summit-style" DJ convergence. >Central to RECOMBINANT's aesthetic is the 3-D spatialization >of SOUND TRAFFIC CONTROL. RECOMBINANT will be presented on the >west coast this fall, with more North American shows to follow >next year. In addition, the offspring event RECON will emerge >in future months, bringing distilled sub-particles from the >RECOMBINANT organism to a basement or speakeasy near you. > > ------===------ > SHOW DATES > ------===------ > > ****** LOS ANGELES, CA ****** > > Saturday, November 9, 1996 > American Legion Hall, 2035 N. Highland > Hollywood CA > Info: 213.486.4536 > All ages - $15 - 7:30 p.m. to 2 a.m. > > Featuring: > The ILLbient Abstrakt wave posse from NYC: > DJ Spooky that subliminal kid, Sub Dub > We (DJ Olive, Loop, Once11), Byzar > futuresteppin' visualistics - from Austria > Granular Synthesis > performing Motion Control MODELL5 > (a radical subsonic hypermass media monument) > Battle of the Turntables with > The Invisible Scratch Pickles (SF) > Q-Bert, Shortkut, & Mixmaster Mike > vs. > The X-Men (Brooklyn) > Rob Swift, Roc Raider, & Mr. Sinister > plus > the Beat Junkies - Babu & Symphony (LA) > (Plus loads of special guests - Call for specific details) > > > > > ****** SAN FRANCISCO, CA ****** > > Monday _THRU_ Friday November 11-15, 1996 > Club Townsend and King Street Garage, San Francisco > Info: 415.522.7380 > All Shows 21+ with ID > > MONDAY 11/11 > The Gardening Club/XLR8R/Black Diamond > DJ DARKHORSE-FELIX THE DOG > CHARLES EDWARDS-PROFESSOR SMITH > plus > JONAH SHARP of Spacetime Continuum > in an electronic hydroponic environment > $5 -- 9:30 p.m. > > TUESDAY 11/12 > Fathom Records presents Dark Tribal Ambient from > Kenneth Newby, Halcyon Days, > Robert Rich and Steve Roach > plus: from the radical abstract to coctail concrete > the premiere of RECON > SOMBIENT's Storm of Drones -- introducingThe Undertaker > rare live appearance by Insect Funeral > plus Hans Christian (cello) and gothic symphonics > $8 -- 7:30 pm > > WEDNESDAY 11/13 > The Invisible Scratch Pickles (SF) > Q-Bert, Shortkut, & Mixmaster Mike > vs. > The X-Men (Brooklyn) > Rob Swift, Roc Raider, & Mr. Sinister > plus the Beat Junkies Babu & Symphony(LA) > special appearance by Stretch Armstrong (NYC) > And in the STC 3-D Galactic: > Cultural Alchemy's SoundLab (NY) > QUANTYK-AKOUSTYK-DJ M.SINGE > THE BEDOUIN-DJ SPOOKY-ARTO LINDSAY > MULTIPOLYOMNI-MC VERB > Plus special guests TBA > $8 -- 9:30 pm > > THURSDAY/FRIDAY 11/14-11/15 > from the Illbient Abstrakt wave crew in New York: > DJ Spooky, Sub Dub, We (DJ Olive & Lloop, etc), Byzar > and one step beyond the usual - from Austria: > Granular Synthesis > who will perform the Motion Control MODELL5 Show > (a radical subsonic hypermass media monument) > the ultimate live audio-visual organism. > Live turntable music exhibition with > The Invisible Scratch Pickles (SF) > vs. > The X-Men (Brooklyn) > plus > STEVE ROACH (Thursday) > CHEB i SABBAH (Thursday) > NAUT HUMON conducts the ISO ORCHESTRA (Friday) > $15 -- 8:30 pm > > > > >>> MORE SHOW DETAILS AVAILABLE ON WEBSITE <<< > > http://www.sombient.com/stc/recombinant > http://www.sombient.com/stc/recombinant > http://www.sombient.com/stc/recombinant > http://www.sombient.com/stc/recombinant > http://www.sombient.com/stc/recombinant > http://www.sombient.com/stc/recombinant > > >>> MORE SHOW DETAILS AVAILABLE ON WEBSITE <<< > >---------------------------------- >Posted for Asphodel by >VOID ENGINEERING >http://www.voidengine.com/ >info@voidengine.com > ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Tue Nov 12 10:13:01 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 12 07:50:05 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vNL6B-0007UO-00; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 07:50:03 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 13:48:19 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"WRE28B.A.ZtG.EuJiy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1126 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 07:50:03 -0800 X-UIDL: 1b588fd77888e24b5ae830a8f3925635 Thanks, Ray, you defined it all now I think. We just need your snail adress. I suggest that everyone sends in recordings he has *now*, otherwhise we might demotivate. Improvements are allways possible and usually seam much bigger for the player than for the listener. Your work will be highly apreciated! Matthias PS. what do we do, if noone helps to make the CDR copies? There are services, but expensive, probably. From ???@??? Tue Nov 12 10:13:26 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 12 09:03:37 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vNMFM-0004Yt-00; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 09:03:36 -0800 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 11:57:44 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Cook X-Sender: ecook@conch.aa.msen.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"cy_jzB.A.J1D.NyKiy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1127 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 09:03:36 -0800 X-UIDL: 4e80720bd98e1d23c854ad535bd8a785 Having just joined the list last night, I apparently walked in on the end of this conversation. I'd be interested in participating, or at least buying a copy.. Could you summarize the details for a late-comer? Private mail is fine if the list doesn't need to hear it again. Thanks much! --Eric Cook ecook@mail.msen.com Gravitar-Guy http://www.msen.com/~ecook/gravitar.html From ???@??? Wed Nov 13 00:47:24 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 12 15:22:48 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vNSAJ-0005x5-00; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:22:47 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ToddM@LaserMaster.Com Organization: LaserMaster Corporation Date: 12 Nov 1996 17:19:04CST6CDT Subject: Much Vaunted CD Project Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Mac v2.0 Message-ID: <348BF555DE@laserm.lmt.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"AFtwND.A.SSF.hWQiy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1130 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:22:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 3b8eb62ae66f7d2a3416ea047a862834 I suppose I'm the 40th person to ask: I have an appropriate tune - how should I send it? I don't have DAT. Who do I send it to and what form is preferred (i.e. cassette with DBX, dolby C, B) What kind of cash is being asked for to have my tune included? Will I receive a CD-R in return with the tunes on it or what? What if the CD-R burner being used for the project explodes in an unforeseen technical mishap? What if Roy explodes in an unforeseen mishap? Todd, the Vortex Guy. Todd Madson PressMate Product Specialist LaserMaster Big Color Technical Support Corporate Web Site: http://www.lasermaster.com/ LaserMaster BBS: (612) TEK-LINE OTIS Faxback Service: (612) 943-3737 From ???@??? Tue Nov 12 10:13:29 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 12 09:26:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vNMbI-0006Gk-00; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 09:26:16 -0800 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 09:19:05 -0800 (PST) From: Stew Benedict Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"tv4VL.A.3UF.YGLiy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1128 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 09:26:16 -0800 X-UIDL: 6168660a175d21b5c7e19bdb606fe7b8 (delurking) I've got access to a CD burner, but don't have software for audio CD's. I'd be running on a DOS/Win 3.11 platform if it makes a difference. Hey, btw, although I haven't said much, but I've really enjoyed this list - it prompted me to pickup a Vortex, and also a Roland GR-09, and I'm getting back into making my own imitation of "music", which I kind of set aside 13 years ago when my daughter was born, and I realized I had to buckle down and make a living. Now she's developed an interest in the guitar, and I've brought all my "stuff" out of the attic for both of us. Stew ~~ Stew Benedict ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ AYS Enterprises ~~ benedict@netcom.com http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/8608 ~~~~~~ "It's not just shy sluggin' gorms neemer!" ~~~~~~ ~~~ Proud sponsor of the plotbot - plots by email! Send email to ~~~ ~~~~~ benedict@netcom.com, subject "plotbot help" for more info ~~~~~ From ???@??? Wed Nov 13 00:47:21 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 12 14:25:05 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vNRGQ-0002Li-00; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 14:25:02 -0800 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 14:20:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611122220.OAA28221@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: new web stuff!! Resent-Message-ID: <"Cj06C.A.AAC.HiPiy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1129 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 14:25:02 -0800 X-UIDL: ad6d922d806fb64c1dbb9e1819b7face Kim Flint writes: >Despite having far more than my usual amount of fun this weekend, I managed >to put a bunch o' new stuff up on the web page. Huge thanks to Michael >Peters, Andre LaFosse, Matthias, and Tom Attix for their contributions and >energy!!! > >First off, we have a cool logo now!!!! This comes courtesy of Tom Attix, >thanks Tom!!!!! You can check it out on the main page: > >http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html Pretty nice graphic. If Tom can make a CD-insert-sized version of it, I'll print them up for the CD. CD bookets are 120mm x 242 mm. My printer is 300 x 300, so probably a 75 x 75 or 150 x 150 dpi graphic would work best (I haven't tried, since the printer is new and I haven't had time to mess with Painter or Photoshop yet). From ???@??? Wed Nov 13 00:47:29 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 12 15:47:54 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vNSYa-0007hv-00; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:47:52 -0800 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:43:25 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611122343.PAA07805@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"1R3NsB.A.59G.fvQiy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1131 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 15:47:52 -0800 X-UIDL: 0d2ce0171206bada022df3ea570797c4 Matthias Grob writes: >Thanks, Ray, you defined it all now I think. > >We just need your snail adress. OK, since everyone seems to be deferring to me. . . Send DATs and cassettes to: Ray Peck 24653 Summerhill Ave Los Altos, CA 94024 Please follow the directions I posted earlier. This is going to get hectic enough without unlabelled tapes, or tapes with 20 minute pices and no editing directions! >PS. what do we do, if noone helps to make the CDR copies? >There are services, but expensive, probably. Let's see. I don't think it will come to that. If it does, I'll make more, but I'm going to charge more for machine wear and tear. From ???@??? Wed Nov 13 00:47:33 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 12 16:36:04 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vNTJC-0003Vn-00; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 16:36:02 -0800 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 16:26:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611130026.QAA13556@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"VOTEXC.A.FvC.bYRiy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1132 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 16:36:02 -0800 X-UIDL: 594500a7048880cf22df34d94cac74bf Stew Benedict writes: > >(delurking) > >I've got access to a CD burner, but don't have software for audio CD's. >I'd be running on a DOS/Win 3.11 platform if it makes a difference. See www.mainstream.com/~jarnold/cdrom He sells it for $65. It's actually more powerful than what I use, in that it can do continuous tracks with changing track numbers (i.e., you don't need gaps between songs). In fact, this feature is why I need to spend $400 on Masterlist for the Mac. I'd burn on my PC, but I don't have SCSI for it, and it's just a general pain in the ass for me. All my music tools are on the Mac, and it would be a pain for me to have to ftp everything over to the PC to burn CDs all the time. From ???@??? Wed Nov 13 00:47:34 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 12 16:44:45 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vNTRc-000495-00; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 16:44:44 -0800 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 96 17:33:01 MST Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: From: "Bret Moreland" Subject: correction on:Oberheim support change? X-Incognito-SN: 368 X-Incognito-Format: VERSION=2.01a ENCRYPTED=NO Resent-Message-ID: <"JG8zrD.A.-qD.LlRiy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1133 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 16:44:44 -0800 X-UIDL: ce883817a38ea737e7144f03118021f6 I mistakinly put an extra . in Kevin Philbin's Email address at Gibson Customer Support for Oberheim. It should have been: kphilbin@gibson.com my apologies for the error. b.ret From ???@??? Wed Nov 13 00:47:37 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 12 17:55:58 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vNUYT-0000Wt-00; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:55:53 -0800 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:51:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611130151.RAA22721@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <348BF555DE@laserm.lmt.com> Subject: Much Vaunted CD Project Resent-Message-ID: <"1evun.A.OP.anSiy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1134 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:55:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 1a771d110bae3b2b31d3ff648139bd1b ToddM@LaserMaster.Com writes: >I suppose I'm the 40th person to ask: > >I have an appropriate tune - how should I send it? I don't have DAT. >Who do I send it to and what form is preferred (i.e. cassette with DBX, dolby C, B) >What kind of cash is being asked for to have my tune included? >Will I receive a CD-R in return with the tunes on it or what? OK, once again. Send by mail to me. DAT and $12 or cassette and $15, plus $12 for each additional CD, limit, um, 1. Address is: Ray Peck 24653 Summerhill Ave Los Altos, CA 94024 On cassettes I can handle dolby S, C, B or none. Somewhere in a box I have dbx, but the liklihood of my finding it is slim. You can also send me quarter track 7 1/2" IPS 7" reel if you want. Hell, at the radio station I can do half track, so if you've got nothing else, contact me. This is really pushing it, though. >What if the CD-R burner being used for the project explodes in an unforeseen >technical mishap? What if Roy explodes in an unforeseen mishap? Then I will be very upset, just having paid $1600 for it a few months ago. If I (*not* Roy, please) explode, your DATs will be the least of my worries. Send the thing with a SASE that will hold your CD(s) and tape, so I can just drop the thing in the mail. Clearly label the tape and the SASE. If you've got special editing or other needs (e.g., single-ended noise reduction or eq), contact me directly by email and we'll work something out. From ???@??? Thu Nov 14 00:11:09 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 13 13:59:06 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vNnKo-00004d-00; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 13:59:02 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 16:47:54 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"D5l7K.A.c3G.3Kkiy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1137 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 13:59:02 -0800 X-UIDL: 3a2df989b7f41326c5b36fa3f50e3d51 Stew, delurking: >getting back into making my own imitation of "music" What an expression! Are we going to hear this? I remember when I started looping, I said it was no art, just utility sound. And it became much more real than before, when I was fighting for art and elite. Welcome Matthias From ???@??? Thu Nov 14 00:10:54 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 13 12:37:44 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vNm47-00028W-00; Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:37:43 -0800 Date: Wed, 13 Nov 96 14:31:34 CST From: "Todd Madson" Message-Id: <9610138479.AA847924090@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ToddM@lasermaster.com Subject: Re: Much Vaunted CD Project Resent-Message-ID: <"y1UUc.A.ItB.CCjiy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1136 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:37:43 -0800 X-UIDL: 2f9569c088dc004239ac118a15c31fc7 Todd Madson responds with: Ray said : "contact me directly by email and we'll work something out." Can I get your e-mail address? Thanks. I'd rather not clutter up this group with my questions. Todd Madson todd.madson@lasermaster.com _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Much Vaunted CD Project From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com at Internet Date: 11/12/96 7:51 PM >Message was resent -- Original recipients were: To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com-------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------- ToddM@LaserMaster.Com writes: >I suppose I'm the 40th person to ask: > >I have an appropriate tune - how should I send it? I don't have DAT. >Who do I send it to and what form is preferred (i.e. cassette with DBX, dolby C, B) >What kind of cash is being asked for to have my tune included? >Will I receive a CD-R in return with the tunes on it or what? OK, once again. Send by mail to me. DAT and $12 or cassette and $15, plus $12 for each additional CD, limit, um, 1. Address is: Ray Peck 24653 Summerhill Ave Los Altos, CA 94024 On cassettes I can handle dolby S, C, B or none. Somewhere in a box I have dbx, but the liklihood of my finding it is slim. You can also send me quarter track 7 1/2" IPS 7" reel if you want. Hell, at the radio station I can do half track, so if you've got nothing else, contact me. This is really pushing it, though. >What if the CD-R burner being used for the project explodes in an unforeseen >technical mishap? What if Roy explodes in an unforeseen mishap? Then I will be very upset, just having paid $1600 for it a few months ago. If I (*not* Roy, please) explode, your DATs will be the least of my worries. Send the thing with a SASE that will hold your CD(s) and tape, so I can just drop the thing in the mail. Clearly label the tape and the SASE. If you've got special editing or other needs (e.g., single-ended noise reduction or eq), contact me directly by email and we'll work something out. Received: from spica.LaserMaster.Com by ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com (SMTPLINK V2.10.08) ; Tue, 12 Nov 96 19:50:59 CST Return-Path: Received: from ferret (ferret.slip.net [204.160.88.6]) by spica.LaserMaster.Com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA24458 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 19:56:46 -0600 (CST) Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vNUWZ-0000M4-00; Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:53:55 -0800 Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:51:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611130151.RAA22721@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <348BF555DE@laserm.lmt.com> Subject: Much Vaunted CD Project Resent-Message-ID: <"1evun.A.OP.anSiy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1134 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: ToddM@lasermaster.com Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:53:55 -0800 From ???@??? Thu Nov 14 10:05:35 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 14 08:34:54 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vO4kd-0002ns-00; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:34:51 -0800 Message-Id: <199611141631.IAA23766@scv3.apple.com> Subject: Re: To the Block and Ruse guy Date: Thu, 14 Nov 96 08:33:19 -0000 x-sender: attix@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Tom Attix* To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"iAuO6D.A.JaC.Nl0iy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1139 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:34:51 -0800 X-UIDL: 83a830864b0a723bb99f2681586b4016 >To the guy who wanted pointers to what looping can do in rock, I'd >wholeheartedly recommend "Purple Electric Violin Concerto" by Ed >Alleyne-Johnson >on Equation Records.It's classically-influenced rock on an electric violin >through various pedals (distortion etc) into a Digitech 8-second delay >pedal. This is my all-time fave looping CD, so I'd recommend it to >everyone else as well! > >Mike > >Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, >Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. > "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) Mike- Do you have an address or phone number for Equation? Thanks. -Tom Attix _______________________________________________ attix@apple.com _______________________________________________ "Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps". - Emo Phillips From ???@??? Thu Nov 14 10:05:29 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 14 01:40:04 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vNyHD-0006eI-00; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 01:40:03 -0800 Message-Id: <29639.199611140939@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:39:00 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr Michael P. Hughes) Subject: To the Block and Ruse guy Resent-Message-ID: <"xOWpMC.A.QLG.aiuiy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1138 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 01:40:03 -0800 X-UIDL: cd604faf4cacc2a9435c50fa184184c1 To the guy who wanted pointers to what looping can do in rock, I'd wholeheartedly recommend "Purple Electric Violin Concerto" by Ed Alleyne-Johnson on Equation Records.It's classically-influenced rock on an electric violin through various pedals (distortion etc) into a Digitech 8-second delay pedal. This is my all-time fave looping CD, so I'd recommend it to everyone else as well! Mike Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Fri Nov 15 00:52:14 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 14 11:08:24 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vO799-0004Up-00; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:08:19 -0800 Date: 14 Nov 96 13:57:52 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: To the Block and Ruse guy Message-ID: <961114185751_100041.247_JHB117-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"_HkCh.A.MsD.Hx2iy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1141 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:08:19 -0800 X-UIDL: ff31b00225b07b4a60e15094a91b9873 Mike, > I'd wholeheartedly recommend "Purple Electric Violin Concerto" > by Ed Alleyne-Johnson 'Wholeheartedly recommending' usually includes writing a short review for the Loopology web page . You can post it or send it to my email address and I'll include it in the web page. Thanks in advance ! -Michael Peters From ???@??? Fri Nov 15 00:52:15 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 14 11:09:21 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vO7A7-0004YQ-00; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:09:19 -0800 Date: 14 Nov 96 13:58:02 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: David Torn book proposal Message-ID: <961114185801_100041.247_JHB117-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"haarxD.A.0rD.Ex2iy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1140 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 11:09:19 -0800 X-UIDL: f036b4daff67427414cbc9226ed23534 Anil Prasad posted this on various newsgroups: ---------------------------------------------- Hi folks, I've been in touch with David Torn on and off about writing a book about and with him. We've officially decided to start a fact-finding mission to see who may be interested in such a venture. Here's the deal: This book is gonna be an all-encompassing look at the world of Torn. It'll detail: 1. His "life story" (or "How Looperboy become the Man of Surreal") 2. His philosophies 3. His views and experiences regarding the music industry 4. Techniques, equipment and gearhead talk 5. How he got his Masters degree in Loopology (and how you can too) Unfortunately, we have to work within the realm of the publishing industry. Neither of us is willing to put up with the hassle of self-publishing. So, the reality is this may have to be two books -- one containing 1-3 and the other with 4-5. Publishers tend to be ridiculously picky about "focus" and may think the "demographic appeal" of the book would be too fragmented if everything was included in one volume. Personally, I'd like to see EVERYTHING in one book and release it as "The Complete David Torn" (that probably wouldn't be the title, but it's the concept I'd like to go for). As you folks know, Torn is a devastatingly interesting person. And unlike many musicians, he's educated, articulate and suitably bizarre enough to make for an incredibly interesting and enlightening book subject. You'll also be pleased to know that Torn wants to include a compact disc with the book. If we go for the "all-in-one" approach, it'll feature either a compilation of his best stuff, or entirely unreleased stuff, or some combo thereof. If we go for the two volume approach, one book will contain a CD of music and the other will include a new disc of loopery a la _Pandora's Toolbox_ or _Tonal Textures_. We're deadly serious about going ahead with this project if we can find a sympathetic and interested publisher. Obviously this thing ain't gonna burn up the bestseller charts. I would assume at minimum we could sell between 2,000 - 5,000 copies. And if it's marketed properly, perhaps a hell of a lot more. I can assure you that if we put this thing together, it'll be a quality package of the _highest_ order. No-one's interested in doing a half-assed job. So, the reason for this message? We'd like to find out what YOU think about all of this. Any constructive comments are appreciated. As well, if you know someone who may be potentially interested in releasing a project like this, please get in touch. This is going to be a truly organic and grassroots effort. Thanks for reading, Anil Prasad aprasad@pobox.com --------------------------------------- -Michael From ???@??? Fri Nov 15 00:52:21 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 14 13:07:04 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vO901-0004Di-00; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:07:01 -0800 Date: 14 Nov 96 15:58:29 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Steve Reich Message-ID: <961114205829_100041.247_JHB137-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"XHUWsD.A.fqD.qi4iy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1142 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 13:07:01 -0800 X-UIDL: 27520b7d874ab2c11a9db19380a02a04 Picked up a new Steve Reich CD today, containing 3 new pieces. 'Nagoya Marimbas': a very beautiful marimba duet, similar to Reich's earlier marimba pieces but more complex and with more variations. This 4 minute piece alone is worth the CD if you like Reich's minimalism. 'The Proverb': a choir/ensemble piece influenced by early music. 'City Life' (a predecessor to 'The Cage'): a complex piece of ensemble music with sampled city sounds, e.g. speech samples with the speech melody integrated into the harmonic flow of the piece. -Michael From ???@??? Fri Nov 15 00:52:38 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 14 15:22:11 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vOB6j-0004tR-00; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:22:05 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 16:16:54 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Steve Reich In-Reply-To: <961114205829_100041.247_JHB137-2@CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"eBHC7D.A.IQE.8h6iy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1143 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 15:22:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 7b053123f276a2b857f94da0edc9a209 i'll get to meet him a week from tomorrow when he comes to perform here in tucson. (i recently started working at our concert hall, 'Centennial Hall' on campus. highlights so far were 'Tommy' and personally driving (at different times) al di meola and paco de lucia from their hotels to the hall - including conversations amidst rush hour traffic. :) who said work wasn't fun? their performance w/john mclaughlin, as the 'guitar trio' was more or less similar to the friday night in san fransisco disc. anyhow, i'll let y'all know how mr. reich is doing these days. :) **************************************************************** ** Dan Howarth, History/Music, University of Arizona, Tucson ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction) ** **************************************************************** From ???@??? Fri Nov 15 00:52:43 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 14 18:35:24 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vOE7l-0001Wx-00; Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:35:21 -0800 Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:30:35 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611150230.SAA14438@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <9610138479.AA847924090@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> Subject: Re: Much Vaunted CD Project Resent-Message-ID: <"NzbhWC.A.WOB.MY9iy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1144 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 18:35:21 -0800 X-UIDL: 7ee5433da2796c946c2770251370c760 "Todd Madson" writes: >Todd Madson responds with: > >Ray said : "contact me directly by email and we'll work something out." > >Can I get your e-mail address? Thanks. I'd rather not clutter up this >group with my questions. Um, it's right up there in the headers. You don't see any headers? Better take a look at your mail reader's setup. rpeck@pureatria.com From ???@??? Fri Nov 15 18:01:00 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 15 06:10:31 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vOOyV-0005lM-00; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 06:10:31 -0800 Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:57:39 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199611151357.IAA28836@shell.monmouth.com> X-Sender: andre@monmouth.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: andre Subject: Re: more Steve Reich Resent-Message-ID: <"lPP-3C.A.bKF.BhHjy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1145 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 06:10:31 -0800 X-UIDL: 1d606a9c546c099955f9309316fe6435 At 03:58 PM 11/14/96 EST, you wrote: >Picked up a new Steve Reich CD today, containing 3 new pieces. > >'Nagoya Marimbas': a very beautiful marimba duet, similar to Reich's >earlier marimba pieces but more complex and with more variations. >This 4 minute piece alone is worth the CD if you like Reich's minimalism. > >'The Proverb': a choir/ensemble piece influenced by early music. > >'City Life' (a predecessor to 'The Cage'): a complex piece of ensemble >music with sampled city sounds, e.g. speech samples with the speech melody integrated into the harmonic flow of the piece.--Michael Yeah !!-- i love this new cd! it's alittle short, though... i also hear Reich will have some box set stuff and some unreleased stuff coming next year tho'....can't wait. Have you heard "The Cave"....was that what you meant as "the cage"??? if not, i'm unfamiliar with that one.. but he is a great American composer - loop-addicted people unfamiliar with his work should especially check out the early stuff (all on one disk now) like "Come out" and "it's raining". Seminal tape loop pieces. my .02 andre east From ???@??? Fri Nov 15 18:01:06 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 15 09:34:35 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vOS9y-0007kg-00; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:34:34 -0800 Message-Id: <762.199611151724@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 17:24:53 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr Michael P. Hughes) Subject: Re: To the Block and Ruse guy Cc: attix@apple.com Resent-Message-ID: <"JxPh8D.A.QlG.MdKjy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1146 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 09:34:34 -0800 X-UIDL: 9bf1748f5211ff810e2f1fa7895346d6 >>To the guy who wanted pointers to what looping can do in rock, I'd >>wholeheartedly recommend "Purple Electric Violin Concerto" by Ed >>Alleyne-Johnson >>on Equation Records.It's classically-influenced rock on an electric violin >>through various pedals (distortion etc) into a Digitech 8-second delay >>pedal. This is my all-time fave looping CD, so I'd recommend it to >>everyone else as well! >Mike- >Do you have an address or phone number for Equation? Thanks. > >-Tom Attix Sure. The address for Equation I have is PO Box 547, Oxford, Oxon, UK. Telephone (+44) 1865 715965. Forthermore, however, it has "distributed by Backs/RTM-Pinnacle (+44) 1603 624290. THe CD number is EQCD001 Oh, and it has the Mandelbrot set on the cover :( Michael (I'll try for a proper review next week) Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Fri Nov 15 18:01:17 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 15 13:44:31 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vOW3p-0007lE-00; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 13:44:29 -0800 From: sarajanes@mdcs.com (Sarajanes) Subject: Boomerang Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 17:32:50 GMT Message-Id: <848079170@mdcs.com> Organization: Micro Data Computer Systems To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"X-5VKC.A.MBH.bNOjy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1147 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 13:44:29 -0800 X-UIDL: 63cb2f0edb4994d6597d4086c19d1cd4 Greetings Fellow Loopers, I wanted to share with you folks some of the conversation I had 11/14 with Mike Nelson via telephone. Mike is the designer of the Boomerang Phrase Sampler, and I believe CEO of Boomerang Musical Products located in Dallas, Texas. I called Mike to ask a few questions about the nature of his product and he was gracious enough to speak with me at length about my concerns. If you are unfamiliar with the Boomerang call 1-800-530-4699 for a free brochure. Briefly the unit was designed to be a looping device as opposed to a delay unit. It comes in either 1 or 4 Mbyte configurations, yielding 32 or 128 second loop times respectively. The unit will allow you to half speed these times with resultant time extension and bandwidth loss.You can also reverse the signal. Other features are best left to the brochures descriptive intent. My concerns were in discovering what upgrades might be in consideration for the device currently, and how the Boomerang people saw their device in the scheme of the looping device market at large. Mike informed me that among the features being considered for the next incarnation of the Boomerang are an "undo" function, and improved tap in and tap out parameters related to layering or "stacking" as they refer to it. He mentioned that they had already done factory mods for Henry Kaiser and a looper in S.F.(??) concerning some of these functions. He stated that they were aware of the different needs of loopers as compared to "standard" players and they hoped to address these performance issues through the development and marketing of the initial model and it's subsequent improvements. I tried to articulate my own concerns about existing looper manufacturers and their relative lack of interest concerning customer service and we agreed that it came down to bottom line economics,i.e. if Lexicon sells a hundred LXP-15 to every Jamman, where does the happy axe fall...no mystery. I stressed to him that the nature of this technology's future being driven by fiscally uninterested business interests was it's single biggest detrimental tangent. Coupled with the nature of looping not being all that accessable a compositional style for many players, the factors presented a challenge I suggested would "undo" even the best layed plans. Mike reassured me that his committment stemmed from his first instincts as a player not a salesman, and the desire to market a well made device with superior performance functionality. I feel Mike and his company are making an honest effort to provide a quality product with the proper amount of related customer service. My personal experience with factory reps and the like over the years (Gibson included) have made this buyer beware. I gave Mike the Loopers Delight URL, and urged him to access it as a source of information and feedback that would benefit his pursuits and perhaps all loopers in time. I know that the devices currently in existance can be improved upon and that the key to making that happen and other future developments is honest communication about our needs and desires as loopers, but those issues need to fall on hearing ears with adequate minds, and pockets. I hope the people at Boomerang can provide these important aspects through their work, time will tell. In the meantime, 16 and 32 seconds are my playground timeframes and I'll make do.....but the day is coming hopefully when I can choose an upgrade that makes sense, while not emptying the fridge for months as a direct consequence (women and children get crabby and uncooperative when malnourished). Hope this was of interest, stay looped. Bryan (loss of signal) Helm From ???@??? Fri Nov 15 18:01:21 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 15 16:37:08 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vOYkq-0002wE-00; Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:37:04 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <762.199611151724@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:30:38 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: TC elec. sustain pedal Resent-Message-ID: <"aupH.A.JXC.8sQjy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1148 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:37:04 -0800 X-UIDL: e42965903f36af2a07e6469ca7c1debc I know this isn't a marketplace, but I remember someone, at some point, was interested in a T.C. Electronics Sustain pedal. I ran across this ad, for anyone who is interested... TC Electronic Sustain $200, vintage ADA Flanger $150, Boss OD-1 overdrive (new in box) $90. All are or best offer. Will trade. Mauricio (gobbi@coastal.udel.edu) 302-731-5394/831-6550 _____________________________________________________ Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov AVIRIS Experiment Coordinator ph: (818) 354-8077 JPL M/S 306-336 FAX: (818) 393-4406 4800 Oak Grove Dr. pager #: (800) 759-8255 PIN 834-3869 Pasadena, CA 91109 _____________________________________________________ From ???@??? Sat Nov 16 10:29:34 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 16 07:30:48 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vOmhj-0007jk-00; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 07:30:47 -0800 Date: Sat, 16 Nov 96 15:26:10 UT From: "Pete Gilbert" Message-Id: To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: greetings Resent-Message-ID: <"Q6wYZ.A.pMH.G3djy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1149 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 07:30:47 -0800 X-UIDL: b562ce880b1f5d8ffbbb2175b2f744f3 This is another of those first posts from a looper who is very pleased to have found this list. Hopefully, I'll be able to add some useful info. So, here comes the "this is what he does" part of the post: I've been fascinated with the work of Fripp and Eno since the late seventies (much to the annoyance of some friends). My first looping experiments were with a SE-50 which gave me about a second or so of delay. These first attempts were, by their nature very rhythmic and simple, but I learned a lot. Approx. three years ago or so, I broke down and bought a jamman, which I have since upgraded to 32 second loops. I feed heavily processed chapman stick and synth sounds into the loops and I have been very pleased with the results. A couple of months ago, I purchased a H3000-d/sx (hi Jonathan), which I am trying to get the sample upgrade added to. At the moment, I use the h3000 to further mangle the sounds before feeding them into the jamman. I play a chapman stick (10 string) to which I have added a gk2a pickup driving a gr09. The melody end of the stick is fed through an art sgx2000 express. The bass end if fed through a vortex. My mixer then feeds these sounds through the h3000, and the results are fed into the jamman. I am fairly pleased with this setup, and have used it to create solo loops, and as underlying textures with other musicians. so, there you have it. thanks for reading. Pete Gilbert From ???@??? Sun Nov 17 16:03:57 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 16 22:05:35 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vP0MH-0000qT-00; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 22:05:33 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 00:24:34 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Clavinett Buyer Resent-Message-ID: <"ZOv_0.A.yu.srqjy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1151 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 22:05:33 -0800 X-UIDL: e1a22c14ff83461019449ceb13793222 Hey in case you need more money....thsisi form Harmony Central WTB: Horner Clavinette Asking Price: US$N/A Condition: Excellent Production Year: 7375 Description: Aspiring funkateer in need of a Horner Clavinet. As much as I search for good clavinet sounds on the digital wonders I do not find them. I would be estatic to negotiate a price on buying a Horner clav, in good condition; Please leave e-mail if interested. Seller: Greg Midgley, (801) 277-5905 E-mail: mkmidgley@sisna.com Location: SALT LAKE CITY, UT Post Date: 11/16/96 From ???@??? Sun Nov 17 16:03:59 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 16 22:13:11 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vP0Td-0001Cb-00; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 22:13:09 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 00:32:12 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Sort of Looping Resent-Message-ID: <"ugx_HC.A.bDB.3yqjy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1152 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 22:13:09 -0800 X-UIDL: 98971505d6762d0f7560dd4429cad6fa Hi guys, I just found this on an ambient list I'm on.....what an idea....just thought you would be interested........... Patrick >From: jmax@interport.net (John Maxwell Hobbs) >Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 13:28:44 -0500 >Subject: (amb) Acoustics of Cyberspace - NYC > >I would like to invite you to my lecture: > >ACOUSTICS OF CYBERSPACE >Parsons School of Design >Monday November 18th, at 6:30pm >25 E. 13th Street, NYC Room 206. > >The lecture is free. >There will be a RECEPTION to follow. > > >The lecture will focus on the "Virtual Abbey" project I developed with >David Hykes a year ago. With the help of Michel Redolphi and Luc Martinez >at CIRM in Nice, we transported the acoustic environment of le Thoronet >Abbey, a 12th century abbey in the south of France, to The Kitchen in New >York City. The voices of the Harmonic Choir were digitally transmitted to >the abbey, the reverberation of the abbey was then transmitted back to New >York in real time, where the audience had the same acoustical experience as >those who were in the real abbey in France. > >I will also discuss the potential for this kind of acoustical tranportation >in the 21st century. > >Please join me -- we will have a small reception afterward. > > >John Maxwell Hobbs From ???@??? Sun Nov 17 16:03:52 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 16 16:17:19 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vOuvH-0003re-00; Sat, 16 Nov 1996 16:17:19 -0800 Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 16:12:41 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611170012.QAA04033@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <29639.199611140939@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Subject: To the Block and Ruse guy Resent-Message-ID: <"V9bJYD.A.AfD.3iljy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1150 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 16:17:19 -0800 X-UIDL: 8e823ffc22eadbe345ab3b029419143b Dr Michael P. Hughes writes: >To the guy who wanted pointers to what looping can do in rock. . . Also, The Mermen. I haven't listened for it on records, but I've got a DAT of an appearance they did on KFJC with some wonderfully subtle looping. I was listening away when I realized that there were two guitar parts playing, and it took me a while to realize that one of them was looping (a fiarly long loop). The Mermen's guitarist roolz the effects universe. From ???@??? Sun Nov 17 19:33:08 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 17 19:28:51 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vPKOA-00002V-00; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 19:28:50 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 19:23:40 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: To the Block and Ruse guy Resent-Message-ID: <"b83ls.A.CKH.9c9jy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1153 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 19:28:50 -0800 X-UIDL: d01bcf17963b9ef9f190aeb36077ebbc >Dr Michael P. Hughes writes: >>To the guy who wanted pointers to what looping can do in rock. . . > >Also, The Mermen. I haven't listened for it on records, but I've got >a DAT of an appearance they did on KFJC with some wonderfully subtle >looping. I was listening away when I realized that there were two >guitar parts playing, and it took me a while to realize that one of >them was looping (a fiarly long loop). > >The Mermen's guitarist roolz the effects universe. Jim Thomas uses Obie Echoplexes, for those keeping track. Another rocker using loopers is Neal Schon of Journey. He's fanatical about the echoplexes he has. (I get phone calls every time he has a question or even thinks there's something wrong, for which I received a thanks in the liner notes of the new Journey album. Woohoo! Don't stop believin'!) Neal uses them live for Journey and Abraxas, as well as for recording and composing. He does a couple of things with them live. One is the obvious, looping a rhythm part so that he can solo over it. For a band like Journey its pretty important to duplicate the recorded versions fairly accurately, and the loopers make the overdubbed parts on the album doable live. His other main use is for backwards guitar parts. Sometimes he'll play around with lots of overdubs to get interesting effects. After one of his Abraxas shows he recorded the last 200 seconds of his playing for the night, and left it looping while the audience left and the roadies tore down the stage. For composing and recording, he syncs the echoplexes to his rhythm machine and loops guitar synth, VG-8, and straight guitar sounds to build up a section until he likes it. (Undo is real handy for this) When he gets it right, he records it. I think looping works great in a rock or blues context. That's not all, though. I know of some bluegrass players that are into it too! Interlocked polyrhythmic frippian soundscapes are all well and good, but sometimes ya just gotta rock.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Nov 17 19:33:10 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 17 19:29:06 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vPKOP-00003K-00; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 19:29:05 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 19:23:49 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Boomerang Resent-Message-ID: <"QD1aaD.A.nLH.Md9jy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1154 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 19:29:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 6a4f5d60e5f58a5cf27dd514030f269c > Mike informed me that among the features >being considered for the next incarnation of the Boomerang are an "undo" >function, Wow, what a great idea! Wonder where they got it? sorry, couldn't resist....;-) kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Nov 17 19:33:11 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 17 19:29:25 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vPKOg-00004M-00; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 19:29:22 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 19:23:52 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, aprasad@pobox.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: David Torn book proposal Resent-Message-ID: <"l38WDB.A.zLH.Od9jy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1155 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 19:29:22 -0800 X-UIDL: 01f92aa022f386d38dadcb12043e6da4 Looper's (and Anil) - >Anil Prasad posted this on various newsgroups: >---------------------------------------------- > >Hi folks, > >I've been in touch with David Torn on and off about writing a book about >and with him. We've officially decided to start a fact-finding mission >to >see who may be interested in such a venture. > I've talked with David about his book idea before, as well. It's great to see something happening! This should be a really fascinating project. Its a great opportunity to get the word about looping out there, from one of our most preeminent practitioners. I'm certainly interested. We can use space on the Looper's Delight web site for publicizing the book and publishing excerpts. We can also include graphics, audio, and video if you like. So hey loopers, what else can we do in support of this? I guess one obvious thing would be to let Anil and David know that there are interested folks out here. Any other ideas? >Unfortunately, we have to work within the realm of the publishing >industry. Neither of us is willing to put up with the hassle >of self-publishing. So, the reality is this may have to be two books >-- one containing 1-3 and the other with 4-5. Publishers tend to be >ridiculously picky about "focus" and may think the "demographic >appeal" of the book would be too fragmented if everything was >included in one volume. Count me in the demographic. David Torn is a very interesting musician and person, and I'd really enjoy a book like this. I think it would add a lot to the dialogue on what the art of looping is all about. I'm sure other's on this list would agree. >So, the reason for this message? We'd like to find out what YOU think >about all of this. Any constructive comments are appreciated. As well, >if you know someone who may be potentially interested in releasing a >project like this, please get in touch. This is going to be a truly >organic and grassroots effort. I'll take a leap of faith and volunteer the Looper's Delight community to help out if we can. Let us know what we can do to help, Anil. >Anil Prasad >aprasad@pobox.com > kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Nov 18 09:34:17 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 17 20:50:21 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vPLf1-0003JN-00; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 20:50:19 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 20:46:48 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: greetings Resent-Message-ID: <"u4YoJD.A.FBD.2q-jy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1156 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 20:50:19 -0800 X-UIDL: 8e9d739b22641e551c842a936dac87b3 At 7:26 AM 11/16/96, Pete Gilbert wrote: >This is another of those first posts from a looper who is very pleased to have >found this list. Hopefully, I'll be able to add some useful info. > Hi Pete, welcome. You'll find many kindred souls here. Usually we are much more prolific than the past week or so, I guess everyone talked themselves out and took a break. Feel free to throw out some fresh ideas, we'd love to hear more of your experiences. Actually, a whole bunch of new list subscriptions came in over the past week. That usually means some good publicity happened somewhere. So I'm a little curious as to how you new folks found out about us. Was there a post somewhere? Don't lurk forever, go ahead and let us know a bit about yourselves and what your thoughts on looping and music are! And if you don't know, we have a web site with a growing assortment of goodies: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html The web site is a coummunity effort, really, so feel free to contribute something if you like. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Nov 18 09:34:19 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 17 21:07:09 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vPLvF-00043y-00; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 21:07:05 -0800 Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 20:59:09 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: How does Schon Sync? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"6WSeEB.A.otD.g6-jy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1157 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 21:07:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 8802f7b85aa2b7518d9860b61fe2c771 On Sun, 17 Nov 1996, Kim Flint wrote: > Another rocker using loopers is Neal Schon of Journey. > He does a couple of things with them live. One is the obvious, > looping a rhythm part so that he can solo over it. For a band like Journey > its pretty important to duplicate the recorded versions fairly accurately, > and the loopers make the overdubbed parts on the album doable live. OK, here's a question: Does Schon's drummer play to a click, to which the Echoplex is also synched? I ask because it seems to me that getting a perfectly in-sync loop of a rhythm guitar part that the drummer (and the rest of the band) can reliably play to is an extremely dubious proposition. Playing a rhythmic, strictly in-time loop, and triggering the start/stop points manually from a footpedal, is a quite demanding task. Take all of the possible rhythmic quirks that could crop up in that process, and then compund that with the entire band having to groove to the loop, and what have you got? A potential train wreck. So I'd be very interested to know if the band does indeed use some sort of time code with which to sync the band (and the Plex) together. --Andre From ???@??? Mon Nov 18 09:34:20 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 17 21:08:20 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vPLwP-00048z-00; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 21:08:17 -0800 Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 21:00:30 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Mermen recommendations? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"KQ2fz.A.hzD.y7-jy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1158 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 21:08:17 -0800 X-UIDL: 6b0975b65dbdfb2a417e8305f35b05bc On Sun, 17 Nov 1996, Kim Flint wrote: > >Also, The Mermen. I haven't listened for it on records, but I've got > >a DAT of an appearance they did on KFJC with some wonderfully subtle > >looping. I was listening away when I realized that there were two > >guitar parts playing, and it took me a while to realize that one of > >them was looping (a fiarly long loop). > > > >The Mermen's guitarist roolz the effects universe. > > Jim Thomas uses Obie Echoplexes, for those keeping track. Can anyone recommed a Mermen record, particularly one with a heavy loop content? Thanx in advance, --Andre From ???@??? Mon Nov 18 09:34:23 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 17 21:40:21 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vPMRP-0005Ut-00; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 21:40:19 -0800 From: DAVID_MITCHELL@HP-Australia-om1.om.hp.com X-Openmail-Hops: 1 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 96 16:38:50 +1100 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <"v02140b04aeb56ec4aa45(a)(091)207.171.196.52(093)*"@MHS> Subject: Re: David Torn book proposal Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Re:" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3ONckB.A.YFF.6Z_jy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1159 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 21:40:19 -0800 X-UIDL: 267adeb599c38764cad4c3addb440667 >So, the reason for this message? We'd like to find out what YOU think >about all of this. Any constructive comments are appreciated. As well, >if you know someone who may be potentially interested in releasing a >project like this, please get in touch. This is going to be a truly >organic and grassroots effort. Here's a left field suggestion... An interesting idea that I came across recently is being tested by Que books. One of their new titles, "Perl 5 By Example", is released onto the Web at http://www.mtolive.com/pbe/ Regardless of whether the actual content is of any interest, it's worth checking out; here's a publishing company that has decided to release an entire book onto the Web before releasing it in paper form. I suppose their thinking is "Let's put it on the web and gauge how many people are looking at it using web counters. Based on this, we can - decide whether future books on this topic have a market - collect general demographics info (what type of people are looking at it (e.g. students, professionals, government), where are they geographically, etc.) and probably some other things". This stuff can be accessed by the Web server pulling down info from everyone's Web client. The option is there for people to download the entire book, although the structure makes it difficult. I have downloaded the book entirely, and intend to buy it when it comes out as I think it's worth the money. I know of at least one other book that has been sold this way; Marc Sabatella's "Jazz Improvisation Primer" was available on the web (and ftp) for a long time before he sold it to a publishing house. It's still out there on the web somewhere. This "free marketing" approach may be a good solution for David Torn's book, if there's troubles selling it to the publishing community. Regards Dave Mitchell From ???@??? Mon Nov 18 09:34:24 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 17 23:27:29 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vPO75-0001qq-00; Sun, 17 Nov 1996 23:27:27 -0800 Date: 18 Nov 96 02:23:28 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: greetings Message-ID: <961118072328_100041.247_JHB76-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"QA-w4B.A.7qB.h-Aky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1160 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 23:27:27 -0800 X-UIDL: 48776faa238d9a749cad173b31e17265 > Actually, a whole bunch of new list subscriptions came in over the past > week. That usually means some good publicity happened somewhere. So I'm a > little curious as to how you new folks found out about us. Was there a > post somewhere? Er, I mentioned Looper's Delight a week ago in a post to Elephant Talk (which is subscribed by thousands). Don't know if this was it, but it probably contributed. If you're interested in more subscribers (and more work for you), there are some (less crowded) newsgroups we could post on such as the Eno, Sylvian, or Ambient newsgroups. I think by now, this mailing list + website have grown rich and interesting enough to feel justified to go and boast a little. -Michael From ???@??? Mon Nov 18 09:34:31 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 18 08:10:28 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vPWHE-0006fQ-00; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 08:10:28 -0800 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 10:05:50 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner X-Sender: dstagner@icarus.icarus.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: TC elec. sustain pedal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"grDQc.A.V_F.nlIky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1161 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 08:10:28 -0800 X-UIDL: 5beee2ea3b986789a0560ce3b9700911 On Fri, 15 Nov 1996, Chris Chovit wrote: > I know this isn't a marketplace, but I remember someone, at some point, was > interested in a T.C. Electronics Sustain pedal. I ran across this ad, for > anyone who is interested... > > TC Electronic Sustain $200, vintage ADA Flanger $150, Boss OD-1 overdrive > (new in box) $90. All are or best offer. Will trade. Mauricio > (gobbi@coastal.udel.edu) 302-731-5394/831-6550 I paid $30 for my TC (battered but works well), from a knowledgeable but honest vintage dealer in Iowa. For $200, you could probably pick up a used dbx compressor, Rane parametric, and a Hush pedal and stomp all over the TC. It's a terrific compressor but it ain't worth $200 except to collectors (who aren't gonna play it anyway). -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort From ???@??? Mon Nov 18 10:23:27 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 18 10:03:28 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vPY2Y-0005BN-00; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 10:03:26 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 09:57:11 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: greetings Resent-Message-ID: <"PcToGC.A.mnE.4PKky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1162 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 10:03:26 -0800 X-UIDL: 072f31cb23f317d343cc5bb75904b94c >> Actually, a whole bunch of new list subscriptions came in over the past >> week. That usually means some good publicity happened somewhere. So I'm a >> little curious as to how you new folks found out about us. Was there a >> post somewhere? > >Er, I mentioned Looper's Delight a week ago in a post to Elephant Talk >(which is subscribed by thousands). Don't know if this was it, but it >probably contributed. > That would explain it. Feel free to do this sort of thing, I don't mind at all. >If you're interested in more subscribers (and more work for you), there are >some (less crowded) newsgroups we could post on such as the Eno, Sylvian, >or Ambient newsgroups. I think by now, this mailing list + website have >grown rich and interesting enough to feel justified to go and boast a little. I have been holding off on publicity because I didn't feel the list and web site were really ready. Now that the digest version is working, the regular list seems to be running smoothly, and the web site has a reasonable amount of interesting content, I think more publicity is fine. If any of you are on other lists that may have members interested in looping, feel free to let them know about Looper's Delight. I'd be especially interested in bringing in some folks from the techno/dub/industrial/ambient world, some dj's, and acoustic musicians of various sorts. (the Adrian Legg, Leo Kottke variety seem to have an affinity for loops) We seem to be a bit top heavy with Fripp influenced guitarists so far, which is ok, but more variety is good in my opinion. thanks, kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Nov 18 23:35:02 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 18 12:16:12 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vPa6y-0005Hg-00; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:16:08 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:15:38 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: How does Schon Sync? Resent-Message-ID: <"vFC3i.A.YmE.ALMky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1164 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:16:08 -0800 X-UIDL: 00aae0097d1adb56fe9f720da9c97722 >It seems to me that getting a perfectly in-sync loop of a >rhythm guitar part that the drummer (and the rest of the band) can >reliably play to is an extremely dubious proposition. > >Playing a rhythmic, strictly in-time loop, and triggering the start/stop >points manually from a footpedal, is a quite demanding task. Take all of >the possible rhythmic quirks that could crop up in that process, and then >compund that with the entire band having to groove to the loop, and what >have you got? A potential train wreck. The band would have to send the cues, for example in form of a kick to the beat sync input. Or something very clear is looped like a bass line or a drum beat. Then the band folows that loop and the rambling musicians sync to it. >So I'd be very interested to know if the band does indeed use some sort >of time code with which to sync the band (and the Plex) together. Me too. From ???@??? Mon Nov 18 23:35:00 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 18 12:14:48 1996 Received: from lists by ferret with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vPa5b-0005Bx-00; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:14:43 -0800 Message-ID: <3290EC96.5545@vm.temple.edu> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 15:09:10 -0800 From: sean o'donnell Organization: Temple University X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: greetings References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"jlT70B.A.2jE.aKMky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1163 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 12:14:43 -0800 X-UIDL: bd99ead04022c0b9b6173cd27fed65bc Hello! I'm a recent subscriber (last week) and have enjoyed lurking about until now, listening to loopfuls of intelligent conversation. Since I'm starting to get an idea of who you all are, I think it would be fair at this point to explain mySELF: My interest in looping began as a result of dabbling in electronic industrial music. Five or six years ago, all I had was a Korg synth and an AKAI S612 Sampler. No drum machine...no sequencer. So, in an effort to create some rhythms, I would sample my synth/voice/etc and play along. At the time, I was not appreciative of the flexibility and fluidity of expression that a looping device offers. I was irritated that I could not get a "steady beat," that the bpms could not be quantized. Through saving my pennies and selling the AKAI sampler, I bought an Ensoniq ASR-10 sampling workstation. I was looking forward to sampling, sequencing, quantizing, and keeping everything in its place. It was not long before I realized that I was not going to like the new machine. The Ensoniq ASR-10, although a powerful machine, cannot "sample on the fly." I was outraged that a $2,000 sampler could not be used to perform the same procedures as a JamMan or a cheaper digitech FX pedal. I've found that sequencing and quantizing can deaden the creative process before it even begins...as well as deaden an appreciation for anything that is "offbeat," and not predetermined over the time of a piece. Anyhow, I recently purchased a Lexicon JamMan and hope that it will allow me to do some of the things that I used to do with my old AKAI sampler (it had start- and end-point sliders that could be reversed simultaneously during sample playback). I would appreciate any advice in terms of its use. In addition, I'm excited about having subscribed to this list because I'm looking for some answers on how to work though some obstacles in the creative process. For example, I enjoy creating text loops of my own and others writings embedded in a sonic context that will persuade the listener to reconsider the meaning of the words and/or the effect of the music in ways not previously considered. Overall, I would appreciate any commentary on the processes used by list subscribers to brainstorm and eventually structure their work. Sean O'Donnell Kim Flint wrote: > > >> Actually, a whole bunch of new list subscriptions came in over the past > >> week. That usually means some good publicity happened somewhere. So I'm a > >> little curious as to how you new folks found out about us. Was there a > >> post somewhere? > > > >Er, I mentioned Looper's Delight a week ago in a post to Elephant Talk > >(which is subscribed by thousands). Don't know if this was it, but it > >probably contributed. > > > > That would explain it. Feel free to do this sort of thing, I don't mind at all. > > >If you're interested in more subscribers (and more work for you), there are > >some (less crowded) newsgroups we could post on such as the Eno, Sylvian, > >or Ambient newsgroups. I think by now, this mailing list + website have > >grown rich and interesting enough to feel justified to go and boast a little. > > I have been holding off on publicity because I didn't feel the list and web > site were really ready. Now that the digest version is working, the regular > list seems to be running smoothly, and the web site has a reasonable amount > of interesting content, I think more publicity is fine. > > If any of you are on other lists that may have members interested in > looping, feel free to let them know about Looper's Delight. I'd be > especially interested in bringing in some folks from the > techno/dub/industrial/ambient world, some dj's, and acoustic musicians of > various sorts. (the Adrian Legg, Leo Kottke variety seem to have an > affinity for loops) We seem to be a bit top heavy with Fripp influenced > guitarists so far, which is ok, but more variety is good in my opinion. > > thanks, > > kim > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Kim Flint | Looper's Delight > kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html > http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Nov 18 23:35:25 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 18 18:54:56 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vPgKr-00058c-00; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:54:53 -0800 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:39:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611190239.SAA02051@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Mermen recommendations? Resent-Message-ID: <"Avj3SB.A.IEE.V4Rky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1165 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 18:54:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 1b00ef920b31b75e146e02e38bee7407 > >Can anyone recommed a Mermen record, particularly one with a heavy loop >content? I don't know about loop content, but my favorites are "Songs of the Cows" and um, the one whose name I don't remember. (jumping over to the Mermen web site) Um, "Food For Other Fish". They are both superb if you like psyched-out instrumental "surf" rock. IMO, they're the best. From ???@??? Mon Nov 18 23:35:27 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 18 19:33:27 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vPgwA-0007Eo-00; Mon, 18 Nov 1996 19:33:26 -0800 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 22:26:31 -0500 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961118222628_1716140413@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Mermen recommendations? Resent-Message-ID: <"iqF6cD.A.VfG.clSky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1166 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 19:33:26 -0800 X-UIDL: cf1c4b28f40f07d11d9d3f1a6c89becc In recent postings... >> Can anyone recommed a Mermen record, particularly one >> with a heavy loop content? > I don't know about loop content, but my favorites are > "Songs of the Cows" and um, the one whose name I don't > remember. (jumping over to the Mermen web site) Um, > "Food For Other Fish". They are both superb if you like > psyched-out instrumental "surf" rock. IMO, they're the best. Between these two albums they also released another title "A Glorious Lethal Euphoria" which is also an excellent disk (IMHO). I believe the label is Mesa/Blue Moon (?) Ted From ???@??? Tue Nov 19 03:38:00 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 19 00:30:48 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vPlZv-0005kc-00; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:30:47 -0800 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 03:29:35 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Cook X-Sender: ecook@conch.aa.msen.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: How does Schon Sync? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"-hOa-.A.4UF.y_Wky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1167 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:30:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 3225566dc6d1fa5f74b064d26827f341 > >It seems to me that getting a perfectly in-sync loop of a > >rhythm guitar part that the drummer (and the rest of the band) can > >reliably play to is an extremely dubious proposition. > > > >Playing a rhythmic, strictly in-time loop, and triggering the start/stop > >points manually from a footpedal, is a quite demanding task. Take all of > >the possible rhythmic quirks that could crop up in that process, and then > >compund that with the entire band having to groove to the loop, and what > >have you got? A potential train wreck. Rather than a wreck, you also have the possibility of something exciting and unexpected happening. We've used a lot of live guitar loops (mainly from the digitech 8-second sampler pedal), both live and in recording, and I've been consistently surprised and pleased with the results with both in-sync and out-sync loops. The in-sync loops provide all of the points you would expect (statement of the riff under a solo, bass line approximations -- we're a bassless trio, so this has been valuable, and so on), but the truly exciting parts for me have been the out-sync loops. You can wind up with just truly bizarre counter-rhythms, strange "accidental" harmonies, all sorts of essentially non-reproducible results, which add both a "seat-of-your-pants" excitment for us as performers, and new compositional elements that we literally could not have planned out before hand. And all of this, for me, is a very good thing. [I suppose I should mention that this is all filtered through the context of playing in a semi-improv noisy psych/space rock band of sorts, so my biases should be apparent as to _why_ I consider this to be a good thing. But I do believe that accepting the "accidents" of looping material has value and application even outside of that immediate context.] I can discuss particular techniques that have worked for us as a whole, as well as methods that I use as a drummer for dealing with playing against non-synced loops if there's any interest. Heck, I may blather about it even if there's not. :) Accept the accidents -- there is value in them. --Eric Cook ecook@mail.msen.com Gravitar-Guy http://www.msen.com/~ecook/gravitar.html From ???@??? Tue Nov 19 03:38:02 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 19 02:21:29 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vPnJ2-0000fY-00; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 02:21:28 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 08:25:22 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: phrase sampler Resent-Message-ID: <"srPnXB.A.El.ZnYky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1168 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 02:21:28 -0800 X-UIDL: 7d34445136837284edbf1d88e11ea8b7 Roland makes a "MS1 digital sampler" There is a small text at http://www.rolandus.com/products/MI/MIprod_SS_PS.html I did not understand how close it is to what we are looking for... Greetings Matthias From ???@??? Wed Nov 20 01:21:13 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 19 03:44:01 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vPoas-0005X4-00; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 03:43:58 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 03:37:45 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: How does Schon Sync? Resent-Message-ID: <"Kln0KD.A.T2E.NyZky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1169 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 03:43:58 -0800 X-UIDL: 70f328e9a7d135fe45841230f1b3d83d >On Sun, 17 Nov 1996, Kim Flint wrote: > >> Another rocker using loopers is Neal Schon of Journey. >> He does a couple of things with them live. One is the obvious, >> looping a rhythm part so that he can solo over it. For a band like Journey >> its pretty important to duplicate the recorded versions fairly accurately, >> and the loopers make the overdubbed parts on the album doable live. > >OK, here's a question: Does Schon's drummer play to a click, to which the >Echoplex is also synched? I'm not sure, but I suspect he doesn't. >I ask because it seems to me that getting a perfectly in-sync loop of a >rhythm guitar part that the drummer (and the rest of the band) can >reliably play to is an extremely dubious proposition. Is it? We're talking about a band full of very competent musicians. They've all logged thousands of hours of studio and live playing time. I imagine that playing in stadiums is where you really learn how to maintain a groove under adverse sound conditions! When you can't hear the rest of the band, or even see them, the way you make it work is by maintaining a very steady tempo and trusting the others to do the same. I doubt that they do anything exotic with the looping. I think Neal just records the loop, and the band plays to it. The reason it works is that these guys have a very good sense of rhythm. Neal's rhythm guitar playing is very tight, and so are his loops. When he records a loop, the timing is about as perfect as you could ask for. >Playing a rhythmic, strictly in-time loop, and triggering the start/stop >points manually from a footpedal, is a quite demanding task. Take all of >the possible rhythmic quirks that could crop up in that process, and then >compund that with the entire band having to groove to the loop, and what >have you got? A potential train wreck. I've seen plenty of bands having trouble grooving together no matter what they did. I think its a question of musicianship and practice. Most people, especially guitar players, have trouble recording loops in time at first. It takes a while to realize that the action with your foot on the pedal is a musical event, and has to be done in rhythm. I've helped an awful lot of guitar players through this first step. You'd be amazed at how many people tap the record button, and then start playing a moment later. With practice, you get much better at recording your loops in rhythm. It forces you to improve your own sense of time. Looping certainly did that for me. Like any aspect of your music, with practice, you get better. Neal Schon has spent hundreds of hours practicing and working with his echoplexes. He uses them really well, and never has problems getting the loops in time. Of course it doesn't hurt that his sense of rhythm is amazingly good. It's easy for me to poke fun at Journey and Neal, being journey and all, but he really is a pretty good musician. When I was first showing him how to use the Echoplex, for some reason he decided to record a solo first, and overdub the rhythm part. He had over 30 seconds worth of rock guitar solo looping, and starts overdubbing chord progressions with it. I'm thinking "you can't do that, it's impossible to get that in time. I'm never gonna be able to teach this guy to do this right." He stops playing the rhythm part, and I realize that its perfectly in time with the solo, and that he finished playing exactly at the end of a pretty long loop. Not only that, the solo he played in the first place was in time and was an even number of beats in length so that it fit perfectly into an ordinary sort of rock progression. My respect for his musicianship went up a lot right then, because I sure as hell couldn't do that. But really, looping in rhythm with or without other musicians just takes some practice. Neal represents an example that this is possible. If you play with people who actually listen to what the others are doing, its not hard to integrate looping into a band situation. It might not work out right at first, but then what does? Just work at it a bit and you'll get it. Its easier than playing Giant Steps! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Wed Nov 20 01:22:09 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 19 12:30:53 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vPwok-0000wV-00; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:30:50 -0800 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:17:39 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: How does Schon Sync? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"nwW10.A.Un.ffhky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1173 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 12:30:50 -0800 X-UIDL: ac9f7bd4c05e4e3423917ccfe6b23bc3 Good points from all regarding the hazards and odds of successful un-synced looping in a live context. Certainly, I'm willing to credit the Journey crew with being among the more professional and accomplished musicians out there today, regardless of my personal use for their music (although I really dug the tune of theirs on the "Tron" soundtrack thirteen years ago 8-] ), and I've no doubt that Schon has a killer sense of rhythm. The main problem that I see with trying to do an in-time loop live with a band is that the loop obviously isn't going to adjust to accommodate what anyone else is doing, so the band needs to play to the loop. If the drummer can't hear the loop clearly, then there's a big problem. But as Kim pointed out, the band is consumately professional, with thousands of arena and studio hours under their belts, and are privy to better-than-average monitoring systems, so it's reasonable to assume that they can pull it off. I guess I just assumed that a band as slick as Journey would want to make sure all bases are covered for that sort of approach. Eric Cook's ideas about deliberately asynchronous loops are also very acute, although they raise some issues of sonc aesthetic that, again, I wouldn't associate with a group like Journey. Pretty much all the loops I've used with bands have been of the rubato-soundscape-free-time-atmosphere variety. --Andre From ???@??? Wed Nov 20 01:21:46 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 19 11:18:36 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vPvgn-0004Xz-00; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:18:33 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:17:42 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: How does Schon Sync? Resent-Message-ID: <"poOghC.A.A5D.5agky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1171 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:18:33 -0800 X-UIDL: 5e29463fc6f5b5e6b33f5b1458044e4e Eric Cook appeared and stated strongly: >We've used a lot of live guitar loops (mainly >from the digitech 8-second sampler pedal), both live and in recording, and >I've been consistently surprised and pleased with the results with both >in-sync and out-sync loops. You are talking about only one machine, being in sync or not with the actual playing of the band, right? >You can wind up with just truly bizarre counter-rhythms, strange >"accidental" harmonies, all sorts of essentially non-reproducible results, >which add both a "seat-of-your-pants" excitment for us as performers, and >new compositional elements that we literally could not have planned out >before hand. And all of this, for me, is a very good thing. >[I suppose I should mention that this is all filtered through the context >of playing in a semi-improv noisy psych/space rock band of sorts, so my >biases should be apparent as to _why_ I consider this to be a good thing. >But I do believe that accepting the "accidents" of looping material has >value and application even outside of that immediate context.] It is certainly exiting for you, but how does a public think about it? Would'nt it be the nicest to be able to "play unexpected" and produce the clima of surprise within a synced rithmical order? (I may be totaly wrong here) >I can discuss particular techniques that have worked for us as a whole, as >well as methods that I use as a drummer for dealing with playing against >non-synced loops if there's any interest. Heck, I may blather about it >even if there's not. :) I you use "methods" don't they end up cuting down the space for the accidents? Probably depends on the kind of methods... give us some more hints! "blather"? No, a speach for over 50 interested specialists.. :-) >Accept the accidents -- there is value in them. Totaly agreed! Thank you for this contribution Matthias From ???@??? Wed Nov 20 01:21:45 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 19 11:17:23 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vPvfd-0004Tw-00; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:17:21 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:17:50 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Text loops? Resent-Message-ID: <"J-QbJC.A.c4D.xagky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1170 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:17:21 -0800 X-UIDL: e5cf9b5edca3e1024dc61c2299b6c200 Sean o'donnell brings up: >I enjoy creating text loops of my own and others writings embedded in a >sonic context >that will persuade the listener to reconsider the meaning of the words >and/or the effect >of the music in ways not previously considered. This sounds interesting, too. We did not talk about text loops yet. I remember playing around with text mixtures. The most obvious thing if you show a looper to a non musician. The recombination of the words can be fun. Repetition also can be brainwash?! Matthias From ???@??? Wed Nov 20 01:21:48 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 19 11:19:45 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vPvhs-0004cU-00; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:19:40 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 17:17:55 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Samplers as loopers? Resent-Message-ID: <"U_KvlB.A.V5D.6agky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1172 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:19:40 -0800 X-UIDL: 4c593c8b7ec648c2bfc4c0b60d7d9a5d Sean o'donnell comes from a different side, saying: >I was looking forward to sampling, sequencing, quantizing, and keeping >everything in its >place. It was not long before I realized that I was not going to like the >new machine. > >The Ensoniq ASR-10, although a powerful machine, cannot "sample on the >fly." I was >outraged that a $2,000 sampler could not be used to perform the same >procedures as a >JamMan or a cheaper digitech FX pedal. I've found that sequencing and >quantizing can >deaden the creative process before it even begins...as well as deaden an >appreciation >for anything that is "offbeat," and not predetermined over the time of a piece. This is a good point. I was amazed too, when I was looking for a looping device, to see that most samplers have all Hardware ready for looping and do not care to create the software. So in the future looping could be done either on multi effect machines, computers or samplers. And samplers have more memory than multi effects. But the pitch change should be without time change, right? Then I imagine it totaly shocking to be able to polyphonically detune immediately whatever happens on stage! >My old AKAI sampler had start- and end-point sliders that could be >reversed simultaneously during sample playback). I did not understand "reversed simultaneously". How do these features work, and what did you use them for? Thanks for joining and bringing new questions and answers Matthias From ???@??? Wed Nov 20 01:22:15 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 19 13:24:21 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vPxeU-00047I-00; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:24:18 -0800 Message-ID: <32924EE5.2B8E@vm.temple.edu> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:20:53 -0800 From: sean o'donnell Organization: Temple University X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Samplers as loopers? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"691FVB.A.kpD.lSiky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1174 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:24:18 -0800 X-UIDL: 7b793a417cfff98adc0da7a9da4be98a Matthias Grob wrote: > > ...I was amazed too, when I was looking for a looping > device, to see that most samplers have all Hardware ready for looping and > do not care to create the software. So in the future looping could be done > either on multi effect machines, computers or samplers. And samplers have > more memory than multi effects. But the pitch change should be without time > change, right? > Then I imagine it totaly shocking to be able to polyphonically detune > immediately whatever happens on stage! Although my sampler has a whole lot of memory (16MB), it is incapable of modulating pitch without a sample shortening or lengthening over time. That is, if I sample my voice saying "Matthias" at middle C on the keyboard, playing it back at an octave lower would result in "MMMAAAATTHHHIIIAAAASSSSSS" in a deep beelzebubbish voice. Although, my sampler has a sample conversion function that will supposedly maintain a fixed time for a sample while allowing for pitch alteration, it is time-consuming and absolutely not a real-time stunt. > >My old AKAI sampler had start- and end-point sliders that could be > >reversed simultaneously during sample playback). > > I did not understand "reversed simultaneously". How do these features work, > and what did you use them for? Two sliders were on the face of the unit and were used to control sample start- and end-points. Both sliders were identical and were situated one above the other. Each slider represented a value of 100 units (-50 to +50). Now, here's the fun part. Depending on their positions relative to one another, either slider could represent the start- or end-point of the sample. For example, with the top slider all the way to the right and the bottom all the way to the left, the top will control the sample playback start-point and the bottom will control the playback end-point. Moving the two closer to the centers of the slider ranges, and therefore closer to one another, reduces the time of the sample and increases the triggering of the sample start- and end-points. Once the top slider is moved far enough the right, and the bottom one is moved far enough to the left, the two will cross over the zero start/end point. Wierd metallic tones are generated. In continuing to move the sliders (top still moving right and bottom still moving left), the sample will be "growing" in length once again, but the start-point will have become the end-point, and the end-point will have switched to become the start-point. The sample will be playing in reverse. I may have just explained something that is entirely elementary to everyone on this list in way too many words, but I thought I should clarify my statement sent in the previous e-mail. In summary, what comes around, goes around. > Thanks for joining and bringing new questions and answers > Matthias You're welcome ;) Sean From ???@??? Wed Nov 20 01:22:17 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 19 13:35:56 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vPxpj-0004nB-00; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:35:55 -0800 Message-ID: <32925143.6F0A@vm.temple.edu> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 16:30:59 -0800 From: sean o'donnell Organization: Temple University X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight Subject: phila. workshop Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"DXBscB.A.XNE.4biky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1175 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 13:35:55 -0800 X-UIDL: ff2d40838be026b106b30c86abbcd6a2 The following is an announcement of an improvisational art workshop that was held last week in Philadelphia. Myself and another loop-artist attended. It was a blast. If you live "close" to Philadelphia ("closeness" being a function of money/time these days) and have a hankerin' to engage in some seriously improvisational looping hysterics--come on down. < Workshop Announcement > HIGHWIRE Gallery presents * L A P A R T workshop * o Date: Wednesdays, November 13th and 20th o Time: 7:30-9:30PM o Place: at Highwire Gallery 137 N. 2nd Street, Philadelphia (btw Arch & Race Sts.) o Fee: _Free_ and _Open_ to all o Bring small scale art media such as sketchbooks, etc. o Musicians may bring his/her instruments. o For more information, respond to this email, or please call: (NJ) Joe Plegman at (609) 795-0857 or (PA) Toshi Makihara at (215) 659-0557 On Wednesdays, November 13th and 20th at 7:30PM, HIGHWIRE Gallery is happy to present its monthly "LAP ART" workshops. LAP ART is a term coined by artist Joe Plageman to signify an interdisciplinary and experimental workshop for visual/performing artists and guests. Informal presentations / performances by various performing artists (musicians, dancers, poets, etc.) will stimulate visual artists to create spontaneous and improvisational sketches. Also musicians may be able to "see" the visual art works as their musical score, or other performing artists can be artistically/spiritually inspired by them. Visual artists usually work on a small scale with paper on board on their laps, or in sketchbooks or on the floor with mostly dry media. The purpose of the workshop is for artists of different media and disciplines to interact with and respond to each other, so that the art produced would be unique to a particular session and inspired by art from a discipline other than itself, such as music, spoken word, dance, performance art, drama, video, or other art forms. Musicians would respond to visual art; dance would respond to poetry, or another discipline, etc. Experimentation, playfulness, openness, discovery -- these are key themes and motivations of these creative laboratories. They are open to the public which may also participate. Each session is different in that the participants come with possibilities, ideas, and media, but no fixed agenda; thus new discoveries are possible. Hope to see you there. From ???@??? Wed Nov 20 01:22:37 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 19 21:01:32 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQ4mw-0006rR-00; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:01:30 -0800 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 20:50:18 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Digital Guitar Digest # 104 (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"-YNLz.A.tLG.o_oky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1176 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 21:01:30 -0800 X-UIDL: 7e048b65c5d09353de62ccc08cb46964 Here's an interesting tidbit... ======================================== From: NedR@shersoft.com Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 9:48:44 -0500 Subject: RE: Digital Guitar Digest # 102 Paolo, I have been subscribing to your news digest for a while and really appreciate the effort that you put into it. I have just formed a new company, RePlay Technologies, Inc. Our first product is CD Looper which allows you to create any number of loops for any music CD using your windows computer. These loops can be any length. Additionally, any loop can be slowed down 2, 3 or 4 times without changing pitch. This is a list of all the features: * Slow down any section of a song 2, 3, or 4 times without changing the pitch. * Slowed loops can be sped up in 10 percent increments. * Length of slowed loops is limited only by disk space. * Each loop point can be set to within 1/100th of a second accuracy. * Unlimited number of loops per track. * Loops can be any length. * Loops can be played continously or a set number of times. * Loops can be automatically paused between each iteration. * Loops can be grouped together making it easy to learn complete sections of a song. * Each loop and track can have a descriptive narative indicating, for example, key or tempo. * Extremely intuitive interface, promoting hands-free operation. * Teachers can export a track's or cd's loop points making any song easy for their students to learn. * Tracks and cd's can be set for continuous play. * Improves your musical ear as you listen and practice loops. * Supports customized play lists. * 16 and 32-bit versions. Our web site is located at http://www.replayinc.com. People visiting the site can download a fully working demo of the product and are eligible to receive special, internet pricing. Do you think you can include this in the next issue of Digital Guitar Digest? I can also send you a press release if you would like. Thanks, Ned Robinson RePlay Technologies, Inc. From ???@??? Wed Nov 20 01:22:40 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 19 23:05:08 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQ6iZ-0001Lo-00; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:05:07 -0800 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:03:04 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611200703.XAA00993@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <961118222628_1716140413@emout07.mail.aol.com> Subject: Re: Mermen recommendations? Resent-Message-ID: <"R6dvaD.A.XLB.n1qky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1177 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:05:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 89392ba8fdde0928924d6656bd92403d >Between these two albums they also released another title >"A Glorious Lethal Euphoria" which is also an excellent >disk (IMHO). I believe the label is Mesa/Blue Moon (?) And Krill Slippin (?), neither of which I like as much. I'm still looking for the one recorded at kfjc, so if anyone spots it, lemme know! I hesitated, and it disappeared from the shelves. From ???@??? Wed Nov 20 01:22:41 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 19 23:22:22 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQ6zD-0002k0-00; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:22:19 -0800 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 02:19:47 -0500 From: GregWest01@aol.com Message-ID: <961120021946_2048091100@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: First Contact Resent-Message-ID: <"rfcsED.A.fcC.TFrky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1178 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:22:19 -0800 X-UIDL: dc220d60f97840e2bdf13f55448a68ff Hi, I just recently stumbled upon the list after seeing it on the "Elephant Talk" newsletter. Cool idea. I submitted my looping demographics on the "Looper's page." This is my first posting, so forgive me for rambling a little. In reference to the asynchronous looping, I'd love to find a drummer who can keep track of beats and time signatures without help (isn't that what a drummer's supposed to do--keep time?) But I've not found one yet who can play freely and creatively against a separate time signature or polyrhythmic textures. I recorded my album "Orion Ascending" with Pat Mundy, who played Indian tabla on two cuts. His ability to function in dense and intricate rhythmic textures was phenomenal, but when we experimented early on with loops, he just couldn't get used to it. He felt too "exposed" by being out there with no one else holding down the beat with him. My concept was that the drums create their own space while the loop makes a "context" for the events that occur within its "domain." It seems that drummers feel "naked" without a bass player or someone else keeping time with them. (I'd think that would be liberating!) On the CD, Pat ended up recording two acoustic (non-looped) pieces with me. I use both a 32-second Jam Man and a 4-second Digitech in my looped performances, and I enjoy the way the loops interact when they're not synced. I was jamming with a friend several months ago and we ended up creating some kind of weird collage with two non-synced loops. He wanted to stop playing and try again, and I yelled (over the cacophonous din) "No, keep it going--watch what happens!" In the moments that followed, in a manner similar to which your vision resolves those computer-generated 3-D posters into something discernable, the two loops created something new that was glued together by the playing that occurred between them. Our brains naturally seek patterns out of chaos... and left with only chaos to process, the brain will create its own patterns. In this manner, the audience becomes a participant in the creative process and no two listeners will come to this resolution in the same time or even the same way. It's like quantum music! When I recorded two looped pieces from my CD, I watched a cynical recording engineer go from a "what is this crap supposed to be?" attitude to total absorption into the looping process. After recording the second piece while sitting next to her in the control room, she turned to me and said "Greg, I'm so glad you decided to record your project with us." I was flattered and pleased to see how the process affected her. That's what makes looping so compelling and satisfying. My whole philosophy is that music exists around us like white light. My job, in performance, is to act as a prism that refracts the music that exists in that time and place into patterns, colors, and shapes that can be used to make "audible light." Finally, someone discussed earlier how to get your audience more involved. Here's an idea I use. Before launching into looped works, I briefly explain and demonstrate how the various pieces of technology work and show how a loop is constructed. Typically, I take a short children's round, like "Row, Row, Row Your Boat" or "Frere Jacques" and loop the melody and add the rounds. People can relate to that easily. Then I work from that loop and change the tonality to something modal, and begin to warp and twist it. Audiences love this! The other tip I had, is to explain briefly (accounting for non-musicians present) that the octave consists of 12 tones, and how they are named. I then select four people at random from the audience to call out a note name, which I then enter into a loop of varying length. The audience becomes very involved in this, and members with musical backgrounds often try to "sabotage" the process by adding intentionally dissonant tones. The last time I tried this the four notes I was given perfectly outlined a wholetone scale. This made a particularly monstrous loop which was delightful since the concert took place under a full moon, just a few days before Hallowe'en! Enough ramblings! This list is cool. I enjoy your comments and will answer e-mail as often as time permits. Cheers! Greg West/Six-String Arts From ???@??? Wed Nov 20 01:22:43 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 19 23:37:20 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQ7Di-0003xs-00; Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:37:18 -0800 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 02:34:51 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Cook X-Sender: ecook@conch.aa.msen.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: How does Schon Sync? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"xa17aC.A.fiD.kSrky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1179 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 23:37:18 -0800 X-UIDL: 1c8ecb55bb135a7987ba9f4e4742c192 On Tue, 19 Nov 1996, Matthias Grob wrote: > >We've used a lot of live guitar loops (mainly > >from the digitech 8-second sampler pedal), > You are talking about only one machine, being in sync or not with the > actual playing of the band, right? The 8-second is the primary one, but also the 2-second digitech sampler pedal, and some other sundry shorter delays. But yeah, the machine/machines being in/out of sync with the live band is where I'm coming from, as opposed to Fripp/Eno style situation, where the loops are the totality of the piece. > >You can wind up with just truly bizarre counter-rhythms, strange > >"accidental" harmonies, all sorts of essentially non-reproducible results, > >which add both a "seat-of-your-pants" excitment for us as performers, and > > It is certainly exiting for you, but how does a public think about it? > Would'nt it be the nicest to be able to "play unexpected" and produce the > clima of surprise within a synced rithmical order? (I may be totaly wrong > here) This is a good couple of questions, Matthias. The first one raises more issues than I want to get into -- any serious question of audience/performer interaction deserves at least a post of its own, and is perhaps not "loop-centric" enough to be on-topic for this list. The second one I can come up with a more concise reply for: Sometimes yes, sometimes no. It would be almost entirely dependent on the piece, and what was called for in the context of the piece. Out-sync (or shifting-sync, rather) loops would be entirely inappropriate for a piece by, say, Journey, but could be entirely appropriate for a piece by DJ Spooky. My point really was just to say that out-sync loops aren't inherently "wrong" musically (even in a rock context), but an equally valid compositional element. And really, isn't any repeating loop going to "sync" with the rest of the music? It doesn't need to necessarily fit into a strict time signature quantization of time; say you're playing in 4/4; if you superimposed a loop 5 beats long over top of it, the placement of the "downbeat" of the loop will shift in relation to the rest of the music, in a regular and repetative pattern. It's not much of a conceptual stretch to dispense with the need to make the loop fit "exactly" into a quantitized beat at all at that point. (Though if someone really wanted to figure out that some arbitrary loop was exactly 4.37 beats long, more power to them. :) Correspondingly, can't the rhythm of a piece be created as much by the totality of the looping and non-looping parts as by the "base" that is being looped over? I think its somewhat of a false distinction to break the two segments apart. (If the loop is serving as something more than "ornamental sound effects", that is.) > If you use "methods" don't they end up cuting down the space for the > accidents? Probably depends on the kind of methods... give us some more > hints! I am going to pursue this part further, but right now, sleep has a higher precedence. Enjoying the conversation, --Eric Cook ecook@mail.msen.com Gravitar-Guy http://www.msen.com/~ecook/gravitar.html From ???@??? Wed Nov 20 01:22:44 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 20 00:02:03 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQ7bd-0005q2-00; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:02:01 -0800 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 03:01:02 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Cook X-Sender: ecook@conch.aa.msen.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: First Contact (or, a drummer defends his breed). In-Reply-To: <961120021946_2048091100@emout06.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"QpY_MB.A.eZF.Arrky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1180 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 00:02:01 -0800 X-UIDL: cbfebcdddf51a9774bab139ab1c16859 Here I was on the way to bed, and then... On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 GregWest01@aol.com wrote: > In reference to the asynchronous looping, I'd love to find a drummer who can > keep track of beats and time signatures without help (isn't that what a > drummer's supposed to do--keep time?) Ack! Sorry for going off-"loop-topic", but this is a pet peeve: One of the best drum teachers I ever had was a man named Cliff Davies. During one of our first lessons together, Cliff looked me straight into the eye and gave me one of the most valuable lessons I ever had about drumming: "The drummer does not keep time. Many people -- many drummers -- think this. They're wrong. Metronomes keep time. If the people you are playing with can't keep on beat and in time without you doing it for them, you shouldn't be wasting your time playing with them. They need a metronome, not a drummer." What he meant was not that a "real" drummer should play entirely free, or in out time, or something like that. Rather, a drummer should interact with the beat, create a dialogue with it, emphasize certain parts, de-emphasize others. Dialogue and emphasis -- not "just" time keeping. > But I've not found one yet who can > play freely and creatively against a separate time signature or polyrhythmic > textures. Ok, tomorrow I present to you all the alpha version of my "Drummers guide to playing with Loops." It's not really all that hard, though it did take a little of a conceptual shift for me. > just couldn't get used to it. He felt too "exposed" by being out there with > no one else holding down the beat with him. My concept was that the drums > create their own space while the loop makes a "context" for the events that > occur within its "domain." Absolutely. Did you explain it to him that way? > It seems that drummers feel "naked" without a > bass player or someone else keeping time with them. (I'd think that would be > liberating!) It is liberating. I haven't played drums with a bass player in years. I don't miss it. --Eric Cook ecook@mail.msen.com Gravitar-Guy http://www.msen.com/~ecook/gravitar.html From ???@??? Wed Nov 20 10:18:46 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 20 08:09:47 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQFDd-00059n-00; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 08:09:45 -0800 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:04:53 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Stagner X-Sender: dstagner@icarus.icarus.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: First Contact (or, a drummer defends his breed). In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"zLhH-.A.XdE.zwyky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1181 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 08:09:45 -0800 X-UIDL: c1315d8a9171fdfb2f678c55bf9c1904 On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Eric Cook wrote: > > In reference to the asynchronous looping, I'd love to find a drummer who can > > keep track of beats and time signatures without help (isn't that what a > > drummer's supposed to do--keep time?) > > Ack! Sorry for going off-"loop-topic", but this is a pet peeve: > > One of the best drum teachers I ever had was a man named Cliff Davies. > During one of our first lessons together, Cliff looked me straight into > the eye and gave me one of the most valuable lessons I ever had about > drumming: "The drummer does not keep time. Many people -- many drummers > -- think this. They're wrong. Metronomes keep time. If the people you > are playing with can't keep on beat and in time without you doing it for them, > you shouldn't be wasting your time playing with them. They need a > metronome, not a drummer." > > What he meant was not that a "real" drummer should play entirely free, or > in out time, or something like that. Rather, a drummer should interact > with the beat, create a dialogue with it, emphasize certain parts, > de-emphasize others. Dialogue and emphasis -- not "just" time keeping. My own early lessons in good time-keeping came from a reggae guitarist/bassist I sometimes jammed with. We'd play guitar and bass through a shared amp, no drummer, just reggae grooves. His main lesson was that, in reggae, it isn't the guitarist or the drummer keeping time, it's the bassist. The bass should be square on the beat, while the guitars and drums lag a bit to get the laid-back feel. Ska is just reggae played ahead of the beat rather than behind the beat. The bass and kick drum keep time. The guitars, snare, and hi-hat make the groove. This applies to all sorts of music. The mark of a good drummer is making a groove, not a beat. And the mark of a good bassist is keeping time for everyone else. > > But I've not found one yet who can > > play freely and creatively against a separate time signature or polyrhythmic > > textures. You think drummers are bad? Try playing with guitarists! Or worse, classically trained musicians who can't follow anything that isn't in a "standard" time signature, or jazz musicians who desparately need chordal movement instead of drones. But really, any sort of musician who can't handle something new is going to be a problem. This includes most rock guitarists and drummers. By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.net */ -Charles Fort From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 00:49:36 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 20 11:38:08 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQITI-000777-00; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:38:08 -0800 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 14:33:25 -0500 From: Jason Bell <106417.737@compuserve.com> Subject: Intro and Workshops ?? To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Message-ID: <199611201434_MC1-C3F-128A@compuserve.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"PFuBVB.A.abG.611ky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1182 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:38:08 -0800 X-UIDL: 590cc74b6c4e0ee1378469af0088a3b8 First of all the introductions. I'm Jason Bell, a Chapman Stick player from York, England. Another Fripp fan, but I won't go on about it. More ambient than loop but I'm after a Lexicon Jam Man. Anyway, back to business. > HIGHWIRE Gallery presents > * L A P A R T workshop * > o Date: Wednesdays, November 13th and 20th > o Time: 7:30-9:30PM > o Place: at Highwire Gallery 137 N. 2nd Street, Philadelphia (btw Arch & Race Sts.) > o Fee: _Free_ and _Open_ to all > o Bring small scale art media such as sketchbooks, etc. > o Musicians may bring his/her instruments. Does anything like this exist in the UK, if not, who want to start .................... Regards Jason Bell (106417.737@compuserve.com) From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 00:49:47 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 20 11:59:48 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQIoE-00019Z-00; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:59:46 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961120200023.00683810@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com> X-Sender: cavaleri@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:00:23 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Joe Cavaleri Subject: Re: phila. workshop Resent-Message-ID: <"RRqnnC.A.z0.6J2ky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1183 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 11:59:46 -0800 X-UIDL: a366f68ca18c70b74397845e7d3c7ecd Hi all, This is truly incredible... Wish I could attend. > >< Workshop Announcement > > > HIGHWIRE Gallery presents > > * L A P A R T workshop * > > o Date: Wednesdays, November 13th and 20th > o Time: 7:30-9:30PM > o Place: at Highwire Gallery > 137 N. 2nd Street, Philadelphia (btw Arch & Race Sts.) > o Fee: _Free_ and _Open_ to all > o Bring small scale art media such as sketchbooks, etc. > o Musicians may bring his/her instruments. > o For more information, respond to this email, or please call: > (NJ) Joe Plegman at (609) 795-0857 or > (PA) Toshi Makihara at (215) 659-0557 **** This is what it's all about**** Experimentation, playfulness, openness, discovery -- >these are key themes and motivations of these creative laboratories. They are >open to the public which may also participate. Each session is different >in that the participants come with possibilities, ideas, and media, but no >fixed agenda; thus new discoveries are possible. > Best wishes to all joe From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 00:50:08 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 20 13:10:10 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQJuJ-0006v6-00; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:10:07 -0800 Message-Id: <9611202104.AA05922@acc> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:06:09 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: jspeer@haverford.edu Subject: Something to try, if you dare Resent-Message-ID: <"buRa9C.A.3QG.JM3ky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1188 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:10:07 -0800 X-UIDL: e8b30fec4dfb8ede030fc92aab702950 Hi people, Let me start off by saying that I'm no looper myself, just a big fan at this point. Here's something to try that some of you may find interesting: Take a CD that you don't like at all, and wouldn't mind destroying. Get a thick black permanant marker. On the PLAYING side of the CD, draw 3 lines, equally spaced, from the center hole right out to the edge. Make sure they're very heavy lines by going over them 10 times or so. Now pop it in the CD player and hit play! Endless listening fun. Literally. You may want to help it along with the ff button if it gets a bit too stuck. You may also want to have a stiff drink while you listen. I find it sounds best if the CD is of really bad heavy metal. Disclaimer: I have no idea what this does to your equipment. But I've never had anything go wrong with my stuff doing this. From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 00:49:57 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 20 12:49:35 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQJaO-0005Ai-00; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:49:32 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:51:47 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: How does Schon Sync? Resent-Message-ID: <"QRBMn.A.flE.042ky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1184 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:49:32 -0800 X-UIDL: 43219d26c2bcb5d096d8032bb0081ceb >It takes a while to realize that the action with your foot >on the pedal is a musical event, and has to be done in rhythm. This it VERY NICELY PUT! Should enter the manual, FAQ, whatever. The foot action on the pedal is a musical event. >I've helped >an awful lot of guitar players through this first step. You'd be amazed at >how many people tap the record button, and then start playing a moment >later. I made that experience, too. Sad enough, even with guys that have the unit for a year and had understood once. Nervosity... >It's easy for me to poke fun at Journey and Neal, being journey and all, >but he really is a pretty good musician. When I was first showing him how >to use the Echoplex, for some reason he decided to record a solo first, and >overdub the rhythm part. He had over 30 seconds worth of rock guitar solo >looping, and starts overdubbing chord progressions with it. I'm thinking >"you can't do that, it's impossible to get that in time. I'm never gonna be >able to teach this guy to do this right." He stops playing the rhythm >part, and I realize that its perfectly in time with the solo, and that he >finished playing exactly at the end of a pretty long loop. Not only that, >the solo he played in the first place was in time and was an even number of >beats in length so that it fit perfectly into an ordinary sort of rock >progression. My respect for his musicianship went up a lot right then, >because I sure as hell couldn't do that. Beautyfull story, too. Is there a place on the site for it? We might create another compilation of mails, about aplications of loop in Rock. Any more experiences? Has anyone seen Jurney doing it live? Matthias From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 00:50:01 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 20 12:50:35 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQJbH-0005G5-00; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:50:27 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:51:57 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Samplers as loopers? Resent-Message-ID: <"G0rJN.A.cpE.d52ky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1185 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:50:27 -0800 X-UIDL: 3440f5105097e2a2b023b3379f01de28 >Matthias Grob wrote: >> >> Then I imagine it totaly shocking to be able to polyphonically detune >> immediately whatever happens on stage! Maybe this is not clearly put. It would be *marvelous*, but it should be as instantly as a dedicated looper does. Do samplers replay immediately after recording? Sean exlained carefully: >Although my sampler has a whole lot of memory (16MB), it is incapable of >modulating pitch without a sample shortening or lengthening over time. >A sample conversion function that will supposedly maintain a fixed time for >a sample while allowing for pitch alteration, it is time-consuming and >>absolutely not a real-time stunt. This is a serious technical problem. The real time pitch shifting is not exactly real time and screws up harmonies. At least my PCM80 does, and I do not have the curage to claim that anyone should do better. For simple waveforms it comes out reasonable. So we might ask the builders of samplers to have a optimized non real time conversion and another which is real time with some limitations in sound. Another problem of samplers is that they do either record or play, right? So its not possible to creat overdubbs. Do you record a second voice without hearing the first and then press 2 keys to have both voices sounding together or is this impossible? Sean again: >Two sliders were on the face of the unit and were used to control sample >start- and >end-points. Both sliders were identical and were situated one above the >other. ... >I may have just explained something that is entirely elementary to >everyone on this list in way too many words... Not for me (I never had a keyboard!), thank you for the perfect explanation! You said that your new sampler does not have this feature, so is it rather a especial one? Or is there a different (more "modern") solution instead? Should such a feature be included in a dedicated looper? Probably... it should not be that difficult...maybe the control of it could be by taping instead of potentiometer controlers? It means that you save the entire loop as recorded and then have a second tap facility to select parts of that loop, without destroying it, just scaning over different parts of it... Is this just fun or a serious tool to create music? I actually one of my first customer way back in switzerland (a genious bass player called Wito Wietn) wanted such a feature to analyze music. A tool for studying, writing scores for ready music. You copy the whole song to the looper, play along with it, loop a difficult part, then go on, loop the next problem part and so on. Could you do that with a sampler? Or could it be done with those DJ machines? Well, my brain is trained and focussed for development. Hope you do not mind asking all that stuff... The aim would be to develop what you need, after all... once the comercial way will be free again... Matthias From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 00:50:00 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 20 12:50:33 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQJbF-0005Fp-00; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:50:25 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:52:20 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: CD looper (was: Digital Guitar Digest # 102, what a subject! :-) Resent-Message-ID: <"Ns4zXD.A.KrE.q52ky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1186 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:50:25 -0800 X-UIDL: e43d878785bfdaf0480e7ad8a7e7b4c0 >From: NedR@shersoft.com >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 9:48:44 -0500 >Subject: RE: Digital Guitar Digest # 102 This is amazing! Didnt I just finish a mail about such features for studying? I will have to write to Wito Wietn... No Mac version, huh? :-( Anyone will try it on Windos? Matthias >I have just formed a new company, RePlay Technologies, Inc. Our first >product is CD Looper which allows you to create any number of loops for >any music CD using your windows computer. These loops can be any length. >Additionally, any loop can be slowed down 2, 3 or 4 times without changing >pitch. > >This is a list of all the features: > >* Slow down any section of a song 2, 3, or 4 times without changing the >pitch. * Slowed loops can be sped up in 10 percent increments. * Length of >slowed loops is limited only by disk space. * Each loop point can be set >to within 1/100th of a second accuracy. * Unlimited number of loops per >track. * Loops can be any length. * Loops can be played continously or a >set number of times. * Loops can be automatically paused between each >iteration. * Loops can be grouped together making it easy to learn >complete sections of a song. * Each loop and track can have a descriptive >narative indicating, for example, key or tempo. * Extremely intuitive >interface, promoting hands-free operation. * Teachers can export a track's >or cd's loop points making any song easy for their students to learn. * >Tracks and cd's can be set for continuous play. * Improves your musical >ear as you listen and practice loops. * Supports customized play lists. * >16 and 32-bit versions. > >Our web site is located at http://www.replayinc.com. People visiting the >site can download a fully working demo of the product and are eligible to >receive special, internet pricing. >Ned Robinson >RePlay Technologies, Inc. From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 00:50:03 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 20 12:51:10 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQJbu-0005Ji-00; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:51:06 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:52:29 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Drummers and Syncing Resent-Message-ID: <"-wC8C.A.QuE.F62ky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1187 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 12:51:06 -0800 X-UIDL: a1eb9317e179a5d9ebfb274a14ba6793 Watch out: this is a very long post, but full of different interesting stuff! Greg West gave his debut: ... >In reference to the asynchronous looping, I'd love to find a drummer who can >keep track of beats and time signatures without help (isn't that what a >drummer's supposed to do--keep time?) But I've not found one yet who can >play freely and creatively against a separate time signature or polyrhythmic >textures. I hate to disagree to the first paragraph of your first post :-). Although I use loops almost constantely and got used to follow the constant speed, I do not think this is the only, natural way of playing. The drummer is supposed to *define* time, but for my taste, it may *vary* with the developpment of the music. Maybe you find a drummer who can play creatively if you let him follow his timing intuition? Are you sure you will not like it, or is it just a bit more difficult to follow? Or is it the DJs who will not like it? Working in studios here I was amazed to see that brasilians do not use click tracks. And I also looked into shocked american faces when they came here to record THEIR music with a BAHIAN touch, but could not imagine that this touch could be *connected to rhythmic freedom*. Its amazing how "inacurate" a nice grove can be. Its what they call "swinge" or "xinga" here. I am not a drummer and may be completely wrong. I gave up to play with drummers ten years ago, because they all sounded like machines. And it clearly came up with the machines. The drumming of the 70ies was looser, more creative, I think. The snare was not constant, but full of rolls and uneven accents. Then they suddenly had to compete with the machines... Having said all that, I will need to review looping technology, though...;-) >I recorded my album "Orion Ascending" with Pat Mundy, who played Indian tabla >on two cuts. His ability to function in dense and intricate rhythmic >textures was phenomenal, but when we experimented early on with loops, he >just couldn't get used to it. He felt too "exposed" by being out there with >no one else holding down the beat with him. My concept was that the drums >create their own space while the loop makes a "context" for the events that >occur within its "domain." It seems that drummers feel "naked" without a >bass player or someone else keeping time with them. (I'd think that would be >liberating!) On the CD, Pat ended up recording two acoustic (non-looped) >pieces with me. Very interesting point... "naked"... for me, the looper is like a "dress" when I am alone on stage. ;-) I observed that a acurate loud and clear rhythmic sound coming from the loop does not at all what a playing person radiates. There is something like a "spiritual pulsation" coming from the claves player for example. In case of the conducter, this is more explicit even. And there is no way I can build this into a looper... :-) So the case of your tabla payer sound like he wants to radiate and needs someone to reflect it. Could that be? >...I enjoy the way the loops interact when they're not synced. >... Our brains >naturally seek patterns out of chaos... and left with only chaos to process, >the brain will create its own patterns. In this manner, the audience becomes >a participant in the creative process and no two listeners will come to this >resolution in the same time or even the same way. It's like quantum music! I often use the harmonic chaos that arises if I play a lot of melodies into the loop, or the rhythmic chaos if I chop up a running loop. And I fully agree that its completely fascinating how we hear a pattern we like in any (?) sound. I also agree, that the public participates in this process, even "sends" its interpretation to the musician so he might end up playing acording to the publics taste (not so bad, after all). Now, I always try to elaborate a bit the "thing" I hear out of the chaos. Isnt that our work? In case of the harmonies, I let the loop fade a bit and put some notes that fortify the "thing" I heard in it. For the "syncless chaos", that would mean: Once that brilliant pattern shines out of your chaos, would it not be nice to sync on the spot and work out what has been heard? This might turn into a very fundamental question: How much of our creations should be a direct channeling of what we "hear" from beyond and how much an interpretation, an adaption for beeings with less sensibility (with full respect. a less developped ability to "listen") ? I will think about it. >... My whole philosophy is that music exists around >us like white light. My job, in performance, is to act as a prism that >refracts the music that exists in that time and place into patterns, colors, >and shapes that can be used to make "audible light." Oh, you did give an answer before I asked! Are we synced? (that "chaos" happens if you answer a mail while reading it :-( ) --- >Finally, someone discussed earlier how to get your audience more involved. > Here's an idea I use. Before launching into looped works, I briefly explain >and demonstrate how the various pieces of technology work and show how a loop >is constructed. Typically, I take a short children's round, like "Row, Row, >Row Your Boat" or "Frere Jacques" and loop the melody and add the rounds. > People can relate to that easily. Then I work from that loop and change the >tonality to something modal, and begin to warp and twist it. Audiences love >this! >The other tip I had, is to explain briefly (accounting for non-musicians >present) that the octave consists of 12 tones, and how they are named. I >then select four people at random from the audience to call out a note name, >which I then enter into a loop of varying length. The audience becomes very >involved in this, and members with musical backgrounds often try to >"sabotage" the process by adding intentionally dissonant tones. The last >time I tried this the four notes I was given perfectly outlined a wholetone >scale. This made a particularly monstrous loop which was delightful since >the concert took place under a full moon, just a few days before Hallowe'en! Great! We should add this to the "Performance Theory" file on the page! >Enough ramblings! This list is cool. I enjoy your comments and will answer >e-mail as often as time permits. This is not rambling, man, this is sheer beauty and astral intelligence! Be carefull, it can turn into a full time job :-) Thanks a lot, you moved me! Matthias PS I feel like spliting this mail into 2 or 3 and call the others something like "Performance Theory again" and "transforming light into sound", but as it grew so nicely... up to you! Lets take our time to discuss such serious stuff. There are "concrete" posts that might be more on topic. These philosophic ones I consider as our preparation for the next millenium and they can take a few years for everyone to sync together. Anyone thinks that this is "New Age" religion or something and thus not for this list? From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 00:50:25 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 20 15:11:12 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQLnS-0000pv-00; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:11:10 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961120231405.00964d30@xenon.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@xenon.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:14:05 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Something to try, if you dare Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Resent-Message-ID: <"M-EDfD.A.ph.U94ky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1190 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:11:10 -0800 X-UIDL: 3ebc3a66f0fa439faef7629afdfebac9 At 04:06 PM 11/20/96 -0500, jspeer@haverford.edu wrote: >Take a CD that you don't like at all, and wouldn't mind destroying. Get a >thick black permanant marker. On the PLAYING side of the CD, draw 3 lines, >equally spaced, from the center hole right out to the edge. Make sure >they're very heavy lines by going over them 10 times or so. Now pop it in >the CD player and hit play! Endless listening fun. Literally. You may >want to help it along with the ff button if it gets a bit too stuck. You >may also want to have a stiff drink while you listen. I find it sounds >best if the CD is of really bad heavy metal. Wow, I used to do this! A friend of mine who did an experimental radio show on a college station turned me on to the idea. I used white-out. I painted various stipes on the disc and scratched parts of them off. (if you have too much on there it won't play at all) Scratching the white out in different places changes the effects. The neat thing is that its always different. Each time you hit the ff button you end up in some new loop that you never hit before. Another idea my friend suggested was microwaving cd's. Supposedly the plastic on the disc develops a network of spider-web cracks. I never got around to trying this, but I'm intrigued by the idea again. I also used bad heavy metal, mostly because I seemed to have several such cd's on my shelf. The cd I used was a band called "Meliah Rage" if anyone's interested. The white out turned lousy Metallica ripoffs into some of the coolest industrial loops I've ever heard. In fact I was doing this 6-7 years ago, predating Rundgren-esque interactive cd's by quite a bit! I heartily encourage everyone to take a look at your cd collection and "fix" some of those discs that you never listen to. >Disclaimer: I have no idea what this does to your equipment. But I've >never had anything go wrong with my stuff doing this. > It never hurt my player, but this is definitely in the user-be-ware, void the warranty category. kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 OEM Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 00:50:32 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 20 15:54:49 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQMTf-0003y6-00; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:54:47 -0800 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 96 16:23:29 MST Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: From: "Bret Moreland" Subject: re:Re: Mermen recommendations? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"v_P2KB.A.YeD.Lm5ky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1191 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 15:54:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 186ca766ab9877c6de1d942ff49ff83e I do not have any Mermen CDs but I do have a live DAT tape I recorded of them (with their permission) at the Boulder Fox this year. If you would like a DAT or Cassette copy of this performance Email me personally @ bret_moreland@maxtor.com. I would be willing to copy the music to a blank tape you provide. There is some usage of Echoplex DP in the performance, but I would not say it is utilized in most of the songs. bret From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 00:50:11 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 20 13:40:09 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQKNJ-0001dn-00; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:40:05 -0800 Message-ID: <3293A353.E0B@vm.temple.edu> Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:33:23 -0800 From: sean o'donnell Organization: Temple University X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Samplers as loopers? References: Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4TKdSD.A.TMB.rm3ky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1189 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 13:40:05 -0800 X-UIDL: e3a4da11c9f50897ff1b75489ac7e804 Matthias: >Matthias Grob wrote: > Do samplers replay immediately after recording? Not mine, and I believe not most. That's why I recently bought a JamMan. > Sean exlained carefully: > >Although my sampler has a whole lot of memory (16MB), it is incapable of > >modulating pitch without a sample shortening or lengthening over time. > > >A sample conversion function that will supposedly maintain a fixed time for > >a sample while allowing for pitch alteration, it is time-consuming and > >>absolutely not a real-time stunt. > > This is a serious technical problem. The real time pitch shifting is not > exactly real time and screws up harmonies. At least my PCM80 does, and I do > not have the curage to claim that anyone should do better. > > For simple waveforms it comes out reasonable. So we might ask the builders > of samplers to have a optimized non real time conversion and another which > is real time with some limitations in sound. Good idea! > Another problem of samplers is that they do either record or play, right? > So its not possible to creat overdubbs. Do you record a second voice > without hearing the first and then press 2 keys to have both voices > sounding together or is this impossible? Once again, my old sampler (AKAI S612) had an overdub function which allowed you to press a button and simultaneously hear/record with the existing sample. My new sampler (ASR-10) works _exactly_ as you've explained. Record samples and play them together. You can do other nifty tricks like splice sections of samples together, invert samples, merge samples, even direct the machine to play individual samples (those constituting a single waveform) in specific or random orders. > Sean again: > >Two sliders were on the face of the unit and were used to control sample > >start- and > >end-points. Both sliders were identical and were situated one above the > >other. > ... > >I may have just explained something that is entirely elementary to > >everyone on this list in way too many words... > > Not for me (I never had a keyboard!), thank you for the perfect explanation! > You said that your new sampler does not have this feature, so is it rather > a especial one? > Or is there a different (more "modern") solution instead? Actually, the new sampler (ASR10) seeks to automate a number of functions which the manufacturer designed under the assumption that musicians would use it to make standard bourgeois music a la any Late Night Talk Show Band. In other words it is not as "open-ended" as I would like it to be. > Should such a feature be included in a dedicated looper? Probably... it > should not be that difficult...maybe the control of it could be by taping > instead of potentiometer controlers? It means that you save the entire loop > as recorded and then have a second tap facility to select parts of that > loop, without destroying it, just scaning over different parts of it... > Is this just fun or a serious tool to create music? > I actually one of my first customer way back in switzerland (a genious bass > player called Wito Wietn) wanted such a feature to analyze music. A tool > for studying, writing scores for ready music. You copy the whole song to > the looper, play along with it, loop a difficult part, then go on, loop the > next problem part and so on. > Could you do that with a sampler? In a sense, yes. Using the function MODULATE LOOP-POSITION, you could loop sections of a piece (e.g., one-half minute starting at zero ending at 100) as many times as you like and then move on to another section with overlap of the first (e.g., one-half minute starting at 25 and ending at 125). This can be done in real time using a wheel to control the position of the loop. The only thing is that the start- and end-points of the modulated loop would remain fixed. This is why I want to use some type of slider that will augment or diminish the loop unit. I'm actually trying to devise a way to do this on my keyboard. I will keep you posted. > Well, my brain is trained and focussed for development. Hope you do not > mind asking all that stuff... My pleasure > The aim would be to develop what you need, after all... once the comercial > way will be free again... Hmmm...nothing commercial is free :> > Matthias From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 00:50:52 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 20 19:08:08 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQPUg-0004lF-00; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 19:08:02 -0800 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 18:56:58 -0800 Message-Id: <199611210256.SAA11379@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: unsynced unmidied loops Resent-Message-ID: <"jjIo6B.A.-BE.hZ8ky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1192 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 19:08:02 -0800 X-UIDL: 5b8f9a55992c3c149703cc2458e83caa Eric Cook hit upon some really IMPORTANT points. I spent 6 years in a band that consisted of two loopers, and at no time did we ever use midi, clocks, click tracks, or any kind of sync whatsoever. and...we created some amazing totally together music.... (This band is still in existence, although we now collaborate long distance: bindlestiff, an ambient electronic band). And Eric's observation that looping unsynced can cause "truly bizarre counterrhythms" strange "accidental" harmonies really rings true to me personally. please, LET something EXCITING and UNEXPECTED happen! forget PLANNING your loops (unless it's appropriate). let MUSIC occur....... Some of my best loops have been complete, unplanned "accidents" (for more on "accidents" read anything Eno has to say on the subject). Some of bindlestiff's finest moments were either "accidental" or "turning a seeming disadvantage to an advantage"... I AGREE 100% that these bizarre events, unplanned accidents, etc. are in some ways the most exciting thing that can happen to a looper. One of my very favourite loops is the first loop on "Sand Island" created while I was repairing my pedalboard, so I could have a signal to test various bad cables, etc. The loop became so compelling that after I made the repairs, I made several recordings of it...one of which became the lead-off track to the album. ENTIRELY unplanned and accidental...rhythmically impossible...musically untenable-but beautiful. ERIC - this IS (undoubtedly) a VERY GOOD THING. I spent so much time trying to be a Todd Rundgren, making the perfect 3 minute song, overdubbed to perfection. This is the WRONG route! All you get is sterility, songs worked to death. Even the Neil Schon stories smack of this obsession. No need. Clear the mind, open the mind...allow MUSIC to appear. Nothing too strange, nothing is impossible. The best loops are those that just come...if you WORK at it...it probably will not be so good. Matthias- you at least know what I am speaking of! Comments please! P.S. I'd kill for a drummer to loop with! Just a drummer, with an understanding of what loops/accidents/bizarre rhythms are about and me with my loops......... any takers? in southern calif??? i guess i'm still a solo artist... dave (lurking for ages now) at STUDIO SEVENTEEN 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * I'll be downstairs if you need me. I'll still * * be downstairs if you don't need me. * * (Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 00:50:55 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 20 22:33:35 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQShW-0007Y1-00; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:33:30 -0800 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:30:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611210630.WAA19170@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19961120231405.00964d30@xenon.chromatic.com> Subject: Re: Something to try, if you dare Resent-Message-ID: <"PsvvZB.A._6G.Kd_ky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1193 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:33:30 -0800 X-UIDL: 881c63278796aa063b0aa7f1e80bdb65 >Another idea my friend suggested was microwaving cd's. Supposedly the >plastic on the disc develops a network of spider-web cracks. I never got >around to trying this, but I'm intrigued by the idea again. It's darn cool (and arcs like hell in the microwave). We used to do this with obsolete CD-ROMs at work. They make very nice xmas tree decorations. ;-) From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 00:50:57 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 20 22:56:11 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQT3N-0001es-00; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:56:05 -0800 Date: 21 Nov 96 01:52:01 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: CD looper (was: Digital Guitar Diges Message-ID: <961121065200_100041.247_JHB35-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"4N0kxC.A.0XB.7x_ky"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1194 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:56:06 -0800 X-UIDL: 8d65ea01bce851b3238bd685a2a12133 > No Mac version, huh? :-( Anyone will try it on Windos? Sure. Sounds too good to be true. I'm just waiting for my new PC which I'll get in a week or two. Too bad that under the current Windows NT 4.0 version (which will be the operating system of my new PC) this CD thingie doesn't work correctly, due to a NT bug. -Michael From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 00:51:08 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 20 23:32:05 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQTc7-00050G-00; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:31:59 -0800 Date: 21 Nov 96 02:26:41 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Something to try, if you dare Message-ID: <961121072640_100041.247_JHB74-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"43Eib.A.qaE.HTAly"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1196 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:31:59 -0800 X-UIDL: ae98c11669eb9e372240a635a5b9a61a > Scratching the white out in different places changes the effects. > The neat thing is that its always different. Each time you hit the ff > button you end up in some new loop that you never hit before. I guess to turn this into a more than a gimmick one could use that CD looping software which was announced on Digital Guitar. Haven't tried it myself but it sounds like you can easily set loop points of any length anywhere on the CD, and even slow down the music without changing the pitch. I'm really looking forward to hearing that myself. -Michael From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 00:51:05 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 20 23:31:33 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQTbc-0004xO-00; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:31:28 -0800 Date: 21 Nov 96 02:26:45 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: unsynced unmidied loops Message-ID: <961121072644_100041.247_JHB74-3@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"5ST53C.A.aaE.GTAly"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1195 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:31:28 -0800 X-UIDL: e8aeea1de04512e14067cf7d8d47f9df > I AGREE 100% that these bizarre events, unplanned accidents, etc. are > in some ways the most exciting thing that can happen to a looper. > Clear the mind, open the mind...allow MUSIC to appear. Nothing too > strange, nothing is impossible. The best loops are those that just > come...if you WORK at it...it probably will not be so good. > Comments please! Completely agreed, but this really depends on the kind of music you want to do. I'm deeply in love with crazy experimental music and free improvisation but others aren't - I think there are several people on this list who work in, say, jazz/rock/folk circumstances and for them it might be a completely different thing. Would anyone volunteer for selecting parts of all those interesting new messages for the 'performance theory' and other message collections? I'd htmlize them but I don't want to do the selection. (I wonder how long this will stay a manageable job, with the list apparently steadily growing.) -Michael From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 00:51:06 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 20 23:31:56 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQTbx-0004yx-00; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:31:49 -0800 Date: 21 Nov 96 02:26:48 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Something to try, if you dare Message-ID: <961121072647_100041.247_JHB74-4@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"ADARYB.A.ebE.OTAly"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1197 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:31:49 -0800 X-UIDL: fd00b26ef3edaa4537a9856ee8c322b5 >Another idea my friend suggested was microwaving cd's. Supposedly the >plastic on the disc develops a network of spider-web cracks. I never got >around to trying this, but I'm intrigued by the idea again. WIRED magazine has a CD review page every month which also includes a 'microwave of the month' (with photo), being the worst new CD they could find this month. I wonder if they ever tried to play it after frying. -Michael From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 00:51:11 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 20 23:34:21 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQTeL-0005Ek-00; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:34:17 -0800 Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:31:14 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611210731.XAA22484@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <961121065200_100041.247_JHB35-1@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: CD looper (was: Digital Guitar Diges Resent-Message-ID: <"Qo76bC.A.xvE.NWAly"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1198 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:34:17 -0800 X-UIDL: 9ca500f8035e75dec0d5079cc0d3fb7d Michael Peters writes: >> No Mac version, huh? :-( Anyone will try it on Windos? > >Sure. Sounds too good to be true. I'm just waiting for my new PC which I'll >get in a week or two. Too bad that under the current Windows NT 4.0 version >(which will be the operating system of my new PC) this CD thingie doesn't >work correctly, due to a NT bug. Why don't you make your machine dual-boot? Mine is NT4/Win95 dual boot (not that I actually *like* using the PC, mind you). From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 00:51:12 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 20 23:46:55 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQTqW-0006PH-00; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:46:52 -0800 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 02:44:45 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Cook X-Sender: ecook@conch.aa.msen.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Something to try, if you dare In-Reply-To: <961121072647_100041.247_JHB74-4@CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"TAH1kC.A.X0F.1hAly"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1199 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:46:52 -0800 X-UIDL: 6dd1c3921e33e29fe8f4f0a90776156d On 21 Nov 1996, Michael Peters wrote: > >Another idea my friend suggested was microwaving cd's. Supposedly the > >plastic on the disc develops a network of spider-web cracks. I never got > >around to trying this, but I'm intrigued by the idea again. > > WIRED magazine has a CD review page every month which also includes a > 'microwave of the month' (with photo), being the worst new CD they could > find this month. I wonder if they ever tried to play it after frying. I've never been able to get a CD to play post-frying. Shame, really, as they _look_ like they should sound really cool. Anyone tried the low-tech version of all this cd destruction? You can force a turntable to "loop" as well, by placing somewhat heavy smallish objects on the record (quarters, taped-down bottle caps, that sort of thing). This has the added advantage of a the loop varying itself slightly over time as well, as the object will either get bumped around by the stylus, or the stylus will move slightly further/closer away on the record. Again, pick a record (and perhaps even a turntable) that you don't care about to try this with. --Eric Cook ecook@mail.msen.com Gravitar-Guy http://www.msen.com/~ecook/gravitar.html From ???@??? Thu Nov 21 00:51:16 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 20 23:52:28 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQTvu-0006vi-00; Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:52:26 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 05:55:44 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Vortex to Brasil Resent-Message-ID: <"XeEXfB.A.1VG.PnAly"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1200 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:52:26 -0800 X-UIDL: dda05f847cbf95187cae788b7a54d44c Dear All (that sounds realy old fashioned, doesn't it?) Would someone mind to buy such a cheap Vortex for me and send it down here? I can pay out of a credit card or a Bank of America check, or some other way... Or you can bring it right down here, check out the white beaches and hot rhythms and smiling faces and african food... I offer staying and looping... Thanks a lot Matthias From ???@??? Fri Nov 22 00:31:42 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 21 01:46:24 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQViB-0000As-00; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 01:46:23 -0800 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 04:45:13 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Cook X-Sender: ecook@conch.aa.msen.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com cc: Mason Jones Subject: Drumming with loops -- some methods (longish) In-Reply-To: <199611210630.WAA19170@pure.PureAtria.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Dg1pH.A.oE.rSCly"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1201 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 01:46:23 -0800 X-UIDL: b042815932fa4eaeb3bb7be91aa75b23 Ok, this is an overview of some of the techniques/methods that I use as a drummer to play with looping material. (And for the record, I use some of these same kind of techniques in non-looping contexts as well, and they also work there.) Note, too, that these are things that have worked for me, working in improv and improv/rock settings -- YMMV in other contexts, It's been educational for me to sit down and try to spell out some of these things; hopefully they may be of some use for those of you that have had problems with drummers/percussionists being uncertain of how to approach playing with your loops. I'm uncertain of how well some of this translates into English -- when I'm doing it, I'm thinking in terms of the sound, not in terms of "Ok, so let's see, what next..hmm.." They make sense to me, but may be gibberish to someone else. If so, let me know, and I'll try to clear up those points (or provide audio examples). Also, I'd love to hear other suggestions on things to try, so shout 'em out! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Playing Drums/Percussion with loops (in-sync and out-sync): *********************************************************** Basically, you can break it down into three general concepts; You can either play: 1)With the loop, 2)Across the loop, or 3)Against the loop. 1)With the loop: a)If the loop is the same rhythm as the theme/riff (say the guitarist locks in a loop of the riff, and then moves into a solo), this is a fairly trivial case -- you can keep playing to the theme as you have been. varying it as much or as little as you normally would. b)If the loop is different from what you had been playing, you have several options. --The first is to just keep playing what you have been playing. [see "2)Playing across the loop"] --Next is to just listen carefully, and as you hear the loop hit a repeat point (or a "functional downbeat"), truncate or extend the rhythm that you have been playing to match with the loop. This is somewhat easier said than done, but is not really all difficult. Just listen to what is going on around you very carefully, and for truncation, be ready to start the beat over when the repeat point hits (be ready to do it at the drop of a hat, basically). You may not hit the loop the first time around, or even the 2nd or 3rd. No big deal -- just keep listening, and if you are making "mistakes" (in the sense that you are way off-time with the loop), make them very purposively and assertively. If the rhythm you are playing is saying to the audience and musicians around you "Yeah, I'm off-beat, so what?", it will blend much more smoothly, and no one will question it. For extending the rhythm to match a loop that is longer than what you had been playing, you can either do it all at once or transitionally. All at once (in the sense that you are just going to jump to new, more or less different rhythm that fits the loop is harder -- you need to be really on the ball, and have a strong intuitive feel of where the loop is going to repeat. Transitionally extending the rhythm is easier, though it can be a little different from the standard "keep the beat, keep the beat" concepts of drumming that you are used to. The two ways I approach this are to a)slowly increment the length of rhythm, playing the same basic thing, but adding another beat or two onto the end of it at each iteration of the measure (which, you'll notice, is slowly getting longer each time). Again, listen carefully to the loop to see when you are in sync. Another related method is what I've thought of as "stretching" part of the rhythm out. That is, you play the rhythm that you have been playing, and "stretch" the end of it out until the point where you hear the loop repeat. The most straightforward ways I've found of doing this have been to do a fairly constant/simple snare fill, or cymbal swell. Once again, listen carefully, and be ready to jump the instant you hear the loop point. You can use this either as a new component of the rhythm, repeating it during each further iteration, or you can use it as a "resting spot", to stop and think about what you are going to do with this loop on further variations. --- At this point, I can hear some of your drummer friends saying "Increment the beat? But I don't know how to play in 7/8 (or whatever)!". Easy -- you don't necessarily need to know _how_ to do it to actually be _able_ to do it. Don't count the beats -- if you aren't comfortable with the time signature you wind up in, you are just making it more difficult for yourself than it needs to be. After all, who cares what signature you are playing in? What counts is how it sounds -- "Listen carefully" is the single biggest tip I can give you in trying to pull all this off, right in front of "act very quickly". I find that "singing" the drum beat to myself in my head helps me do all this (and other things) that I am completely unable to do if I'm actually trying to "left-brain" my way through it. Worry about how it _sounds_, not what notes are being played. If it sounds good, the notes will take care of themselves. Also, despite all the "rules" of drumming, metronomic time is not always appropriate -- don't be afraid to speed up or slow down to match the loop if that's what sounds good. Ok, onward... --- 2)Playing across loop a)if the loop is an "out-sync" one, another option is to play "across" it; that is, to keep doing what you are doing, and disregard the fact that the loop is now doing something different. In essence, you are pretending that you the theme that you were playing with is still present. This may sound strange, but it works surprisingly well, both conceptually and pragmatically. Conceptually, you are providing a sense of continuity with a (potentially) disasociated loop and the rest of the piece prior to that disassociation. Pragmatically, this can be sometimes be easier than varying the beat to fit the loop, and it can make for some nice polyrhythmic effects. Also, you are providing a strong foundation for your "looper" to jump back onto the beat when they see fit (for instance, after a loop-heavy, "textural" solo of the guitar). This is also a somewhat problematic technique for some drummers, in that they are _all alone_ in keeping the beat. Too bad; learn how to do it -- they _are_ the drummer after all; they shouldn't need to have someone else there "hand holding" their way through the beat. Other drummers will have no problem whatsoever in doing this; again, "singing" the theme/riff to myself always helps me in not falling too far off. So does just "tuning out" the loop, if needed (though not completely; you need to find the inbetween point of "listening while not listening".) This general technique is also useful to provide continuity between related loops that are cross-fading. I do something like this on "If's it wrong to be right.." and "Why is it so hard?" on the 2nd Gravitar CD. b)Related to playing across the loop, as well as to the stretching technique mentioned above, is the technique of "fragmenting" the rhythm. That is, taking a fragment of the rhythm, and repeating that. For me, this generally boils down to turning a more complex pattern (say of 8 or 16 beats), and grabbing a hold of 2 or 3 beats of it, and repeating them. In some ways, it can be thought of as an extended "fill", though it quickly sounds less like a fill than a seperate rhythm. In some ways, it is a live way of "echoing" the looping that is going on around you -- it can sound very much like a drum loop that is suddenly caught in a lock-step. Also, you use this as another transitional technique (as mentioned in the segment on stretching above), either to go into a new rhythm, or while waiting to jump back into the beat when your "looper" is ready. (The latter is a fairly easy way to build some dramatic tension, I've found, providing the looping section remains fairly short in overall duration.) 3)Last, playing against the loop: a)In some ways, this points out the arbitrary nature of the some of the distinctions that I've made here -- after all, when you are playing "across" the loop, as outlined above, aren't you playing "against" it in some ways? The difference, I guess, is that playing against the loop would have no direct rhythmic connection with either the musical events in the loop, or the rhythm being playing prior to the loop. In essense, this is the time where you say -- "Ok, the _loop_ is keeping the beat (or a beat, at least); I'm free to do whatever I choose." Good time for a solo, or to slip into a more "free" oriented mode of drumming. b)Another potential approach (again, not all that different necessarily from some of the prior techniques), is to establish a rhythm that allow you to shift the accents in it around fairly freely, without a direct one-to-one relationship with the musical events in the loop. I also use this one on Gravitar's 2nd CD, on the song "Automaton". The basic guitar theme is a simple triplet-based group of 4 or so notes, repeating in a self-similar, but fairly constantly shifting pattern. When recording it, I knew that the guitar player would be going into a heavy textural section for most of the middle of the song, and would leave some part of the the triplet pattern looping in the background. Rather than worrying about what configuration of this pattern he would come up with this time in the loop, I instead made the whole rhythm of the drums a somewhat simple tripet-based pattern, allowing me to fairly freely shift accents back and forth at will -- this _suggested_ the triplet pattern of the guitar riff, but didn't tie me directly to it, allowing me to play against whatever loop pattern would come up on this particular occasion. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ And that's the overview. As stated in section 3, these distinctions are fairly arbitrary, and more for the sake of clarity in the explanation than anything. In practice, any combination of techniques could be used, in the same piece, or same loop. Any of the connective devices could be used by themselves entirely (to create a new rhythm), or to connect any given technique to any other given technique. None of this is absolute either -- what it all boils down to is listening, reacting, and choosing whatever is appropriate for the song and situation in question. A lot of it is pretty self-evident, really, once you do it at least once. Also note that when I do these things in the context of Gravitar, we don't have a bass player; this frees me up considerably as a drummer, both in terms of my freedom to react quickly without worrying so much about bass player following what I'm doing, as well as, in essence, making the drums the entirety of the "rhythm section". I'm not necessarily advocating kicking the bass player out...but it's helped me in some ways. Hope this is of interest/use to somebody -- I'd love to hear any comments, questions, etc. --Eric Cook ecook@mail.msen.com Gravitar-Guy http://www.msen.com/~ecook/gravitar.html From ???@??? Fri Nov 22 00:31:45 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 21 03:16:05 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQX6w-00065c-00; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 03:16:02 -0800 Date: 21 Nov 96 06:10:57 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Drumming with loops -- some methods (lon Message-ID: <961121111056_100041.247_JHB74-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"p3wlu.A.TeF.rlDly"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1202 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 03:16:02 -0800 X-UIDL: b19dafcb22739547a5e52d6de536212f thanks Eric for the drumming with loops overview - this is definitely something we'd like to have in the "Tips and Tricks" section of the Loop website. (I'll do the porting to Html.) "drumming against loops" reminds me of some of my all-time favorite CDs: the early CDs by Jon Hassell (such as Aka-Darbari-Java). Wonderful sample loops set against slowed down percussion tracks, and they are often rhythmically completely independent, but it sounds just great to me. -Michael From ???@??? Fri Nov 22 00:31:49 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 21 04:32:30 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQYIu-00064h-00; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 04:32:28 -0800 Date: 21 Nov 96 07:29:03 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Caryn Lin/Bon/Torn Message-ID: <961121122902_74074.1316_GHQ56-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"68jPQC.A.kkF.OuEly"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1203 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 04:32:28 -0800 X-UIDL: 921e4f1598ec77b46a5e7859d39ef1b9 Hey Gang, and in particular Philadelphia area loopists! There will be a record release party for the new Caryn Lin CD, "Tolerance for Ambiguity" (Alchemy Records 1010) on December 9 at the Painted Bride Art Center in Philadelphia. Caryn is an electric violinsts/looper, her new album was produced by David Torn (and he plays all over it). Bon Lozaga will be playing in her band at the release party. Very interesting stuff, and well worth checking out. For those not in the area, you'll be able to get more info on the Alchemy page no later than December 6, and hopefully a bit sooner. Also, she'll be doing a series of in-store appearances at Borders stores in Claifornia in January. Dates will be coming soon. Later, Jon Durant From ???@??? Fri Nov 22 00:31:55 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 21 06:48:02 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQaQ5-0007MX-00; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 06:48:01 -0800 Message-ID: <32946AE0.6F5@cca-int.com> Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:44:48 -0500 From: david kirkdorffer Reply-To: david-kirkdorffer@cca-int.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: looping text Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"i-Uw9D.A.PwG.psGly"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1204 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 06:48:01 -0800 X-UIDL: 505ad26f33f431a0ce45cf40f6b5bc2d Hello loopists! The other night jamming with The Loop Groop here in beantown, I found I was "receiving" a radio station through my borrowed "rig" -- an 8-sec digitec delay and a fuzz-box. I had a great time EMPHASIZING the radio signal and then twiddling knobs on the digitec-delay. The radio just became a signal to work. Specifically successful tricks included: 1. gradually slowing the text down 2. turning to delay on and off very quickly to capture words ramdomly 3. widldy turning the delay time knobby to create "theramin" like whines and tones 4. "stacking" beer commercials David Kirkdorffer From ???@??? Fri Nov 22 00:31:57 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 21 06:57:06 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQaYr-0000CY-00; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 06:57:05 -0800 Message-ID: <32946D20.4935@cca-int.com> Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:54:24 -0500 From: david kirkdorffer Reply-To: david-kirkdorffer@cca-int.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: The Mermen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xjpVgB.A.WE.p1Gly"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1205 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 06:57:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 22b0356451053dd0342e0e9768d77563 I saw the Mermen in Boston a few months ago. I'd heard great things about them from a friend in San Fran. I couldn't believe the amount of equipment the guitarist had with him! Basically two refrigerator sized racks and many many floor pedals (eg., four earnie ball volume controlers) running in a stereo set-up. Oh yes, he has two echoplexes. And a few Fenderesque guitars each with Synth pick-ups. Basically, there were two lines of thought circulating among the many musicians in attendance: 1. "Wow, I'd love to have that much cool outboard gear." 2. "Wow, I'd be embarassed to have so much outboard gear, and still only sound like I was using an analog 2-second delay." Some subtle looping did occure, but mostly not. David Kirkdorffer From ???@??? Fri Nov 22 00:31:58 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 21 07:16:39 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQarm-0001bI-00; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 07:16:38 -0800 Message-ID: <32947176.57E7@cca-int.com> Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 10:12:54 -0500 From: david kirkdorffer Reply-To: david-kirkdorffer@cca-int.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Bye Bye to you all Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"dYj6f.A.0TB.-GHly"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1206 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 07:16:38 -0800 X-UIDL: 7e3ce2bac9a41900eee80e9bf356f78f Kim -- ***please cancell my subscription to the Loopers-Delight Digest.*** As I receive these via a friend who PRINTS them out for me to read, it's too burdensome for them to continue doing me this favour. In fact, less than three weeks of postings made for a reem and a half of paper! That's 750 pages!! I hope to touch base with you all from the Text Archives of Looper's Delight Mailing List Posts. So keep them up to date! Happy looping to all Happi loopin to all Hapi loopin t all Hapi lopin tal Hapi lopintal Hapilopintal Ha-ilointal Hail loin til Hail loitil Ailloiti Ailot Alot Alo Al a David Kirkdorffer From ???@??? Fri Nov 22 00:31:59 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 21 08:55:39 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQcPa-0000kU-00; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:55:38 -0800 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 11:52:39 -0500 From: RA336@aol.com Message-ID: <961121115238_1351911401@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Drummers and Syncing Resent-Message-ID: <"m4y52D.A.Lj.WkIly"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1207 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:55:38 -0800 X-UIDL: 4a8864ac52f43d5f7777617b80db451e hey all... here's another take on live looping & syncing: I have spent 9 years in a band with two people looping with delays and two other people looping with samplers... the delay-based loopers were me (stereo guitar>modified pcm42>jamman and our violinist (stereo violin>tc2290>digitech 8 second delay)... the sampler loopers were the drummer who generated his own loops and triggered his own click in a headphones setup... and the keyboard player who used sampled and sequenced loops. He would at times send midi clock to the drummer and to the delays in cases where we wanted hard sync. Other times, mr. drummer was master of time and our subsequently perfomed looping synce-on-the-fly and previously created and sampled loops all somehow managed to sit. I'm a big fan of creating loops, especially ambient ones and sampling them for later tomfoolery, so alot of the composition was based around samples of rythmic loops with ambi-washes and further rythmic textures created spontaneously. We were and continue to be (I think) one of the very few song-oriented bands to be using techniques like these. Best thing to do though is have your own sound man, as a house guy who is unfamiliar with your act will have nary a clue as to what sound is coming from where... we fooled many From ???@??? Fri Nov 22 00:32:03 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 21 12:57:02 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQgBA-0003xc-00; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:57:00 -0800 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:43:57 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Something to try, if you dare In-Reply-To: <199611210630.WAA19170@pure.PureAtria.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"u71noD.A.afD.WFMly"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1208 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 12:57:00 -0800 X-UIDL: 423750e05d2d5dbd6185a3bf2e198830 On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Ray Peck wrote: > >Another idea my friend suggested was microwaving cd's. Supposedly the > >plastic on the disc develops a network of spider-web cracks. I never got > >around to trying this, but I'm intrigued by the idea again. > > It's darn cool (and arcs like hell in the microwave). We used to do > this with obsolete CD-ROMs at work. They make very nice xmas tree > decorations. ;-) Don't you run the risk of frying the innards of the microwave itself by bouncing the waves off of the reflective surface of the CD? This is why using metal cookware ina microwave oven in a big no-no. Just asking, --Andre From ???@??? Fri Nov 22 00:32:04 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 21 13:22:03 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQgZM-0005mW-00; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:22:00 -0800 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961121212542.00995714@xenon.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@xenon.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:25:42 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Something to try, if you dare Resent-Message-ID: <"_rzID.A.pOF.odMly"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1209 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:22:00 -0800 X-UIDL: 40ad0bee6b2ae3eff7b4ab2a83fdefc8 At 12:43 PM 11/21/96 -0800, you wrote: >On Wed, 20 Nov 1996, Ray Peck wrote: > >> >Another idea my friend suggested was microwaving cd's. Supposedly the >> >plastic on the disc develops a network of spider-web cracks. I never got >> >around to trying this, but I'm intrigued by the idea again. >> >> It's darn cool (and arcs like hell in the microwave). We used to do >> this with obsolete CD-ROMs at work. They make very nice xmas tree >> decorations. ;-) > >Don't you run the risk of frying the innards of the microwave itself by >bouncing the waves off of the reflective surface of the CD? This is why >using metal cookware ina microwave oven in a big no-no. > >Just asking, > >--Andre > That's why you do it at work..... ;-) kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 OEM Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research From ???@??? Fri Nov 22 00:32:26 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 21 17:11:06 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQk92-0006td-00; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:11:04 -0800 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:07:54 -0800 (PST) From: rpeck@PureAtria.COM (Ray Peck) Message-Id: <199611220107.RAA10669@pure.PureAtria.COM> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Something to try, if you dare Resent-Message-ID: <"nBYv0C.A.JTG.p0Ply"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1210 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 17:11:04 -0800 X-UIDL: cfe86594ee9ad92596e34a58cc5c7ea1 >> It's darn cool (and arcs like hell in the microwave). We used to do >> this with obsolete CD-ROMs at work. They make very nice xmas tree >> decorations. ;-) > >Don't you run the risk of frying the innards of the microwave itself by >bouncing the waves off of the reflective surface of the CD? This is why >using metal cookware ina microwave oven in a big no-no. > >Just asking, I thought so, too (I wasn't the one to try it), but the microwave ovens were all unharmed. (this sounds like the animal welfare disclaimer at the end of a movie) From ???@??? Fri Nov 22 00:32:48 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 21 23:46:15 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQqJR-0001j6-00; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:46:13 -0800 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 02:44:12 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Cook X-Sender: ecook@conch.aa.msen.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Drumming with loops -- some methods (longish) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"fvR7AB.A.LeB.UnVly"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1212 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:46:13 -0800 X-UIDL: 9d05101dd0646a6d878023e8e59015f7 On Fri, 22 Nov 1996, Matthias Grob wrote: > >1)With the loop: > > > > a)If the loop is the same rhythm as the theme/riff (say the guitarist > > locks in a loop of the riff, and then moves into a solo), this is > > a fairly trivial case -- you can keep playing to the theme as you > > have been. varying it as much or as little as you normally would. > > I think this is the main case we have been talking about. Do you allways > easily hear acurately enough to follow? I understood from the other posts > that this was a problem? Practically, yes, this can definitely be a problem. Esp. in live situations, where the monitoring situation can range from flakey to worse. I use a small guitar amp, pointed right at me, slaved off the guitarist's main amp, as a monitor, and this seems to help, both for hearing the looping and non-looping material. Plus I can control the volume of what's blasting at my head, which I also like. > > you are pretending that you the theme that you were playing with > > Maybe give the "yous" a fix before HTMLizing :-) Yeah, the whole thing should be proof-read and polished up a bit before before anything. I'm sure my tenses are flying back and forth all over the place as well. :) (re: lack of a bass player) > Thats what I thought all the time, reading your methods. > But you probably have some bass sound that takes the space? Yeah, the guitar player uses a Digitech Whammy pedal to "double" the theme in two octaves, and sometimes loops a generalized low-end groove for good chunks of the song. > Someone said that in Reggae and other music, the bass is reference and not > the drums. That's true -- would there be anything to add to these tips to generalize them more, so that they are more appropriate for a variety of genres? > So simple way is to have the bassplayer start his loop first, defining the > time. He may record just a few "corner" notes, giving a base for every one, > but also leaving space to "curve" around. "curve" and "corner" -- that's a nice way to put it. > Another thing would be to leave the direction to the drummer and have him > send out a Beat Sync to the looper (well, all I am saying works with > ECHOPLEX, I am not sure about others...) to correct the loops of everyone > so they do not "run away". > The Sync signal could be the bass drum mic or a separate key you operate > regularely, I do not know how...maybe even a key under the HH pedal? I'd like to try this, but none of our looping gear is high-tech enough for me to trigger it, I don't think. Does anything besides the Echoplex deal happily with a beat sync, anyone know? > Did you never feel like having your own drum loop going, as a base and sync > reference for the others? Yeah, I do have pedal envy sometimes. :) Seriously, I have been trying to incorporate some live drums loops into the whole sheebang. Tried baseing some songs on tape loops, but that had the problem of being a)very inflexable (at least with pedals/samplers, you can alter the speed or the loop if desired. With tape, you're stuck.) and b)damn near inaudible once the whole band got going. I've did recently get my own 8-second digitech sampler pedal, and a Roland SPD-11 drum pad, and have been slowly bringing that in at rehearsals. Haven't had the guts to try it live yet though. So far, the less "Realistic" drum sounds seem to be blending in better (the more similar the sounds are to my kit, the more it just sounds like I'm playing sloppy if the loop drifts). Seems like looping non-electronic percussion might be problematic live, though I'd love to hear from anyone who's done it at all, successful or not. > I feel that we need some more infos collected before we close the "Drumming > with loops" Hint. > But you did put us right on the way. Yeah, I in no way intended it to be the "authoritative manual", just a list of some things that have worked for me. I'm glad you found it to be of some interest. > Maybe there will be a separate Hint: "Looping with drums" :-) yeah! Somebody write it -- I'll read it with enthusiasm! --Eric Cook ecook@mail.msen.com Gravitar-Guy http://www.msen.com/~ecook/gravitar.html From ???@??? Fri Nov 22 00:32:42 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 21 22:55:22 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQpWB-0005ga-00; Thu, 21 Nov 1996 22:55:19 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 04:58:27 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Drumming with loops -- some methods (longish) Resent-Message-ID: <"IoQDJ.A.-KF.a3Uly"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1211 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 22:55:20 -0800 X-UIDL: 922b601dcd753f9b3d871b98dd290063 How nice, Eric. A real method. Might find its place at Plaing Hints on the list, what do you think? >1)With the loop: > > a)If the loop is the same rhythm as the theme/riff (say the guitarist > locks in a loop of the riff, and then moves into a solo), this is > a fairly trivial case -- you can keep playing to the theme as you > have been. varying it as much or as little as you normally would. I think this is the main case we have been talking about. Do you allways easily hear acurately enough to follow? I understood from the other posts that this was a problem? > fact that the loop is now doing something different. In essence, > you are pretending that you the theme that you were playing with > is still present. Maybe give the "yous" a fix before HTMLizing :-) >Also note that when I do these things in the context of Gravitar, we don't >have a bass player; this frees me up considerably as a drummer, both in >terms of my freedom to react quickly without worrying so much about >bass player following what I'm doing, as well as, in essence, making >the drums the entirety of the "rhythm section". I'm not necessarily >advocating kicking the bass player out...but it's helped me in some ways. Thats what I thought all the time, reading your methods. But you probably have some bass sound that takes the space? Someone said that in Reggae and other music, the bass is reference and not the drums. I think its the same in my music. I often start with a small high pitch pingeling thing that shows the loop to me, but hardly to a drummer. Then when the clima developps, suddenly I hear the bass line and record it, usually using MULTIPLY (and using POLYSUBBASS polyphonic octave divider, the cool way to kick out the bass player :-) ). Then the drum (percussion in my case) can come in concretely. So simple way is to have the bassplayer start his loop first, defining the time. He may record just a few "corner" notes, giving a base for every one, but also leaving space to "curve" around. Then the guitars and soloists are free to record and distroy their loops synced to the bass loop, without having to worry too much about timing. For the drummer, the bass loop is an easy reference. Another thing would be to leave the direction to the drummer and have him send out a Beat Sync to the looper (well, all I am saying works with ECHOPLEX, I am not sure about others...) to correct the loops of everyone so they do not "run away". The Sync signal could be the bass drum mic or a separate key you operate regularely, I do not know how...maybe even a key under the HH pedal? Did you never feel like having your own drum loop going, as a base and sync reference for the others? I feel that we need some more infos collected before we close the "Drumming with loops" Hint. But you did put us right on the way. Thanks Matthias Maybe there will be a separate Hint: "Looping with drums" :-) From ???@??? Fri Nov 22 10:28:06 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 22 01:24:22 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQrqQ-0007mE-00; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 01:24:22 -0800 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:20:02 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Samplers, drummers... Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"YTVRQD.A.FDH.KBXly"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1213 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 01:24:22 -0800 X-UIDL: afe078243e4fd2d30389772c8ae7736b I think there is sampler that can detune, pitch shift without changing the sample length. Akai choosed the "lets behave like a tape" method. Roland (at least a few years ago, I don't know for their last products) choosed another way. wich was called "differential interpolation" (not exactly sure of the translation) were the machine performed calculation to "fill in the blancks" in a sound when played higher (means faster usually) and the exact opposite to prevent your 5 sec sample to turn to a 40 sec sample 3 oct lower. I was very impressed with the intelligence of the post of Mr. Cook and the fact that drummers are not supposed to keep time. I made a strong point in my opinion.... Then it took me into rethinking some of my drums arrangements (since I have unfortunately no drummer with me, I have to use synths and boxes to try to emulate a real drummer, whan I want one. Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Fri Nov 22 10:28:08 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 22 01:34:46 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQs0T-0000bi-00; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 01:34:45 -0800 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:33:11 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: What do you mean thanks? Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"WIdKw.A.2f.8NXly"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1214 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 01:34:45 -0800 X-UIDL: 11ef98433a9c67e0ac4124c689bc3cfe K-Just to say to everyone contributing, as I read the last digest, BOY! I lke th eway this list is LIVING. I felt like I had to tahnks everyone. It goes without saying, but it goes better with the saying (non accurate translation of an old french saying). Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Fri Nov 22 10:28:09 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 22 04:59:45 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQvCq-0001o4-00; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 04:59:44 -0800 Date: 22 Nov 96 07:54:38 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Oberheim Synthies died? Message-ID: <961122125438_100041.247_JHB90-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"2biW1C.A.5iB.TNaly"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1215 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 04:59:44 -0800 X-UIDL: 8ce042a6c924ed161517bb937c049ee1 just read in a new catalogue of a local synthesizer shop that the Oberheim Synthesizer division has been closed. (Maybe this is no news for many of us, but I didn't know it.) What does this tell us about the future of Oberheim and the Echoplex? -Michael From ???@??? Fri Nov 22 10:28:11 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 22 04:59:49 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQvCu-0001oX-00; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 04:59:48 -0800 Date: 22 Nov 96 07:54:42 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Drumming with loops -- some methods Message-ID: <961122125441_100041.247_JHB90-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"2cMV2.A.OjB.WNaly"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1216 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 04:59:48 -0800 X-UIDL: a85f7a8f9dfd2c9c71344499fcde7bba I've htmlized Eric's "Drumming with Loops" and sent it to Kim, who I hope will upload it to the Tips/Tricks section sometime in the next days. -Michael From ???@??? Fri Nov 22 10:28:26 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 22 09:17:40 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vQzER-0003JV-00; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:17:39 -0800 Message-Id: <199611221712.AA28374@internet-mail.ford.com> From: "Steven R. Murrell" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Something to try, if you dare Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 12:08:59 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4BrumC.A.EwC.O8dly"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1217 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 09:17:39 -0800 X-UIDL: b6454acab0c74fd4402a0c2ec73f0d37 >Hi people, >Let me start off by saying that I'm no looper myself, just a big fan at >this point. Here's something to try that some of you may find interesting: >Take a CD that you don't like at all, and wouldn't mind destroying. Get a >thick black permanant marker. On the PLAYING side of the CD, draw 3 lines,...................... Now this is one of the primary reasons why I joined this list. I will try this tonight. Steve Murrell From ???@??? Fri Nov 22 22:05:31 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 22 10:37:58 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vR0U8-0001IV-00; Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:37:56 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:32:42 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Oberheim Synthies died? Resent-Message-ID: <"RK72mB.A.L8.NJfly"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1218 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 10:37:56 -0800 X-UIDL: ed3deae8b88bba9151971e7fbf41bf95 >just read in a new catalogue of a local synthesizer shop that the Oberheim >Synthesizer division has been closed. (Maybe this is no news for many of us, >but I didn't know it.) What does this tell us about the future of Oberheim >and the Echoplex? -Michael I was there a couple of days ago, and they didn't appear closed. Pale and shaky, but not quite dead yet. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Nov 23 11:03:52 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 23 10:16:38 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vRMd3-0006NO-00; Sat, 23 Nov 1996 10:16:37 -0800 Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 11:14:46 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com cc: stickwire-l@netcom.com Subject: Steve Reich & Musicians In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"WLI6nD.A.33F.i8zly"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1219 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 10:16:37 -0800 X-UIDL: f9dab714aebc2731b87e3932e52d57a1 hi folks, i've just finished a grueling fourteen hour work day with Reich and co. basically, i was their driver; this involved many, many hours of fun and interesting conversation, as well as unusual hours... but anyway: the ensemble consisted of two pianists, five vocalists, a conductor, a sound engineer, four percussionists, and reich. they were easily the most relaxed and friendly group of artists i've worked with. their planes were an hour late; rehearsal was hindered by fried microphones; they hadn't eaten in over a day; and worst - our staff had some embarrassing moments with them. but in all, they were very patient, friendly, and considerate. i ended up taking them to a local restaurant for dinner (and muchos margaritas). i wish i had time to remember and write down the conversation; easily put, it was entertaining. some of them had heard of the chapman stick, though none really knew much about it. reich asked (and received, of course) for a tape of my music... his parting words were a very stern "we'll be in touch." incredible guy. he doesn't actually perform much of his own compositions, but rather continually uses the ensemble (built of a very tightly-knit group of old friends) in all of his works. - it was said that he writes some parts specifically for a certain player in the group. the music was memorable. i've always been a glass fan, but i found reich's marimba pieces (which were featured) to be much more interesting and dynamic than the organ pieces of glass. the percussionists were amazing. finally, i dropped them at the airport this morning, after many, many handshakes and even a free cd of the two pianists' work titled 'double edge'. what a day. i can't wait to see if reich will call me. :) **************************************************************** ** Dan Howarth, History/Music, University of Arizona, Tucson ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction) ** **************************************************************** From ???@??? Sun Nov 24 17:12:19 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 23 12:03:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vROIG-0006Yo-00; Sat, 23 Nov 1996 12:03:16 -0800 Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 14:55:41 -0500 (EST) From: murkie X-Sender: mchriste@puma.middlebury.edu To: stickwire-l@netcom.com Cc: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Steve Reich & Musicians In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Bv7JyC.A.KEG.Mh1ly"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1220 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 12:03:16 -0800 X-UIDL: 2d6a07768c78bbb82412b8f2ba068015 i agree wholeheartedly about reich's compositional superiority to glass (yawn). i just finnished working on a recording for a live performance of reich's "new york counterpoint" ( a pice for 10 recorded clarinets and one live one ) and i was knocked out by the piece. i would recomend most of his catalog as inspirational listening for loopers and tappers alike. all for now... murkie ===================================================================== = = = M a r k C h r i s t e n s e n = = Cramped Quarters Studio / Jasperpottamus Music Publishing = = internet: murkie@middlebury.edu = = "The world isn't flat. It's actually +6 dBa at 5.7 kHz." = = = ===================================================================== From ???@??? Sun Nov 24 17:12:25 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 24 08:03:48 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vRh23-0002X6-00; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 08:03:47 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 14:06:03 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: unsynced unmidied loops Resent-Message-ID: <"CsktF.A.OMC.IFHmy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1221 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 08:03:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 296f7f5efdf061277ad3557c5947c627 >Eric Cook hit upon some really IMPORTANT points. ...and Dave hits again: >And Eric's observation that looping unsynced can cause "truly bizarre >counterrhythms" strange "accidental" harmonies really rings true to me >personally. please, LET something EXCITING and UNEXPECTED happen! forget >PLANNING your loops (unless it's appropriate). let MUSIC occur....... Sure, my stile pretty much, too, as you know, and I tend to get emotioned and off with you... But some want to play Salsa... and I love Salsa, too... would be a pitty to see them unsubscribe because of us crazy ones. There is a style for every ambient (ambient is only for certain ambients! ;-) ) and a way to applicate loops... And, come on, at least 90% of the world population mostly wants to dance to precise, traditional (synced!) rhythms! And its great! Did you hear a percussionist fill a loop with a traditional rhythm, using all of his gear? Thats a lot of power! >I spent so much time trying to be a Todd Rundgren, making the perfect 3 >minute song, overdubbed to perfection. This is the WRONG route! > >All you get is sterility, songs worked to death. Even the Neil Schon >stories smack of this obsession. No need. You mean, there is no way to create perfect songs on loops without getting sterile? This is serious! I could not do it, but... noone? HELP, someone! >Clear the mind, open the mind...allow MUSIC to appear. Nothing too strange, >nothing is impossible. The best loops are those that just come...if you >WORK at it...it probably will not be so good. Absolutely, you can cook like that, even design a machine... hm... lets not get fanatic... >Matthias- you at least know what I am speaking of! Aem...... just me? Sorry I do not want to break you on your trip, its a very good one! And it might end up influencing all kind of music! >Comments please! Matthias From ???@??? Sun Nov 24 17:12:27 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 24 08:04:08 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vRh2N-0002YC-00; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 08:04:07 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 14:06:11 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Samplers as loopers? Resent-Message-ID: <"cpvb4D.A.4NC.UFHmy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1222 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 08:04:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 1251fa4e80dfb630bb57fd3058181dcd Me: >> Do samplers replay immediately after recording? Sean: >Not mine, and I believe not most. That's why I recently bought a JamMan. So this would be the first thing to ask from a "looping sampler", right? >> >A sample conversion function that will supposedly maintain a fixed time for >> >a sample while allowing for pitch alteration, it is time-consuming and >> >>absolutely not a real-time stunt. >> >> ... We might ask the builders >> of samplers to have a optimized non real time conversion and another which >> is real time with some limitations in sound. > >Good idea! Second thing. >> Another problem of samplers is that they do either record or play, right? >> So its not possible to creat overdubbs. Do you record a second voice >> without hearing the first and then press 2 keys to have both voices >> sounding together or is this impossible? > >Once again, my old sampler (AKAI S612) had an overdub function which >allowed you to >press a button and simultaneously hear/record with the existing sample. >My new sampler >(ASR-10) works _exactly_ as you've explained. Record samples and play >them together. >You can do other nifty tricks like splice sections of samples together, >invert samples, >merge samples, even direct the machine to play individual samples (those >constituting a >single waveform) in specific or random orders. This must be nice at home, not so much for stage, right? Or would you any of these features be usefull in real time? But we need the AKAI S612 overdub function. Third thing. >> Sean again: >> >Two sliders were on the face of the unit and were used to control sample >> >start- and >> >end-points. Both sliders were identical and were situated one above the >> >other. >> ... Me, asking about the slider sample edition AKAI S612: >> You said that your new sampler does not have this feature, so is it rather >> a especial one? >> Or is there a different (more "modern") solution instead? Sean answering: >Actually, the new sampler (ASR10) seeks to automate a number of functions >which the >manufacturer designed under the assumption that musicians would use it to >make standard >bourgeois music a la any Late Night Talk Show Band. In other words it is >not as >"open-ended" as I would like it to be. One of the maior problems when programming a feature: The handyer we make it for a certain purpose, the less flexible it ends up for other use. >> Should such a feature be included in a dedicated looper? Probably... it >> should not be that difficult...maybe the control of it could be by taping >> instead of potentiometer controlers? It means that you save the entire loop >> as recorded and then have a second tap facility to select parts of that >> loop, without destroying it, just scaning over different parts of it... >> Is this just fun or a serious tool to create music? >> I actually one of my first customer way back in switzerland (a genious bass >> player called Wito Wietn) wanted such a feature to analyze music. A tool >> for studying, writing scores for ready music. You copy the whole song to >> the looper, play along with it, loop a difficult part, then go on, loop the >> next problem part and so on. >> Could you do that with a sampler? > >In a sense, yes. Using the function MODULATE LOOP-POSITION, you could >loop sections of >a piece (e.g., one-half minute starting at zero ending at 100) as many >times as you like >and then move on to another section with overlap of the first (e.g., >one-half minute >starting at 25 and ending at 125). This can be done in real time using a >wheel to >control the position of the loop. The only thing is that the start- and >end-points of >the modulated loop would remain fixed. This is why I want to use some >type of slider >that will augment or diminish the loop unit. I'm actually trying to >devise a way to do >this on my keyboard. I will keep you posted. But as long as you use a slider to define things, you have a hard time to keep something rhythmically exact. You have to find the correct point on trial and error, while everyone listens to it. Using a taping method you could hold the key to play the loop and say, press another one at the new start point and let it go at the new end point and from then on, this very key would call this new section (or multiple) of the old loop. Does that make sense? And the question remains how many people would want to use a sampling keyboard for this. Sure, you want to use what you have as flexible as possible... Still, the only chance to have such a machine one day is to go through it and imagine it working. And to only way to find out whether people want it is to build it and show it. A hard way. The way new things came up. Matthias From ???@??? Sun Nov 24 23:18:15 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 24 22:15:25 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vRuKB-0002iH-00; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 22:15:23 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 22:10:38 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: new web stuff! Resent-Message-ID: <"B4vL7D.A.rVC.gjTmy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1223 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 22:15:23 -0800 X-UIDL: 27a976bc51b6bb0dc3650593e4f44fbd New stuff on the web page: Eric Cook's killer Drumming with Loops essay has been converted to hypertext by Mr. Peters and now resides at: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tips/Drumming.html Matthias has contributed the Playing Hints section of his original Paradis LoopDelay manual, updated for the Echoplex. Even if you don't use the Echoplex, its a great place to get lots of ideas for looping. If you are an Echoplex user, its a must-read. Michael Peters once again lent his expert hand to the html. Check it at: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/tips/Plhints.html I finally found time to update the archive section. Every issue ever of the Looper's Delight digest is now available on the web. This means that just about every post that's ever been made is up there. There are a few gaps from October that I still need to get to, but there is more than enough reading material to keep you away from fresh air and family members for days. Wallow in Looper's Delight history at: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/archive/archive.html And if you haven't spent much time at the Looper's Delight web site, go check it out now! There's all sorts of goodies waitin' there for you. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank some of the people who have contributed so much effort to making the Looper's Delight web site as good as it is. If you don't know, this whole thing is pretty much a community effort. Different people contibute their own little bits of expertise, and the collective whole is becoming a great resource. When you think that I started this only about 3 months ago, the progress is really amazing. If you want to help out, just jump in and do whatever you think would make a good addition. For now though, lets give these folks a pat on the back: First off, Michael Peters. Michael does all the html coding that I never have time for. He does a great job with it, and I appreciate his efforts tremendously. Basically, Looper's Delight would suck without him. Michael also created the loopography and history sections of the site. Thanks Michael!!! Then we have Andre LaFosse. Andre has come up with some great ideas for the site and provided the initial energy to bring them to life. These include the Looper's of the World page, the Echoplex faq, the tips and tricks page, and probably lots of other stuff. He also wrote the Frippertronics essay in the tools section. Thanks Andre!! Then we have Tom Attix, who created the Looper's Delight logo, which I love. Thanks Tom! Then there's Matthias Grob, who in addition to inventing the Echoplex and LoopDelay, has done great things for the web as well. He had the idea to compile list posts by interesting topics, making for some really entertaining reading in the archive section. He's also contributed his fascinating philosophies in the musing section. And now he brings us his Playing Hints. Thanks Matthias! Thanks to Eric Cook, for coming out of nowhere and giving us a much needed drumming perspective. Matt McCabe, for being available to help out early on when I needed it and doing some html for the web. Thanks Matt! And Thanks to David Torn, for being himself and for giving us permission to reprint his Guitar Player article on Looping. Thanks to everybody else who has contributed ideas and advice to get this thing going. And thanks mightily to everybody who posts regularly on the list, making it live and providing fodder for much of the web site content. thanks! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Nov 24 23:28:13 1996 >From kflint Sun Nov 24 23:21:44 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vRvMM-0007NH-00; Sun, 24 Nov 1996 23:21:42 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 23:18:29 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: How does Schon Sync? Resent-Message-ID: <"SCXAJC.A.J0G.GjUmy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1224 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 23:21:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 2671fb967b1cdcebae8dcf665d030d31 At 12:17 PM 11/19/96, Andre wrote: >The main problem that I see with trying to do an in-time loop live with a >band is that the loop obviously isn't going to adjust to accommodate what >anyone else is doing, so the band needs to play to the loop. If the >drummer can't hear the loop clearly, then there's a big problem. I meant to reply to this some time back, but as always, no time.... There are a couple of other things you can do to keep your loops in sync in a live playing situation. One thing you can do is restart the loop from its beginning, at the appropriate musical point. So if you notice that your loop has drifted a bit from the rest of the band, you retrigger the loop so that it at least is starting from the right point. This isn't ideal if the tempo has changed slightly, but at least it gets things reasonably close together again if the loop (or the band) has drifted way off. In most rock contexts, you probably aren't going to have the loop repeating all that many times anyway, so a few readjustments of a bad loop will get you through a tight spot. I don't know if you can do this with other loopers, but with the echoplex you just hit Mute-Undo. (when you are in mute, Undo unmutes and starts the loop from the beginning.) Another idea is to rerecord the loop. Obviously, this only makes sense if the loop is simple and doesn't have overdubs. Its a pretty easy trick to go back and forth between the looper playing a part and you playing it live. When you notice the loop has gone out, just find a way to break out of your heroic guitar solo for a moment of rhythm playing with the record function on, and then get back to it with the new loop. Probably easier than you think, and could done with a reasonable degree of finesse to make it musical. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 10:03:41 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 25 14:39:28 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vS9gR-000446-00; Mon, 25 Nov 1996 14:39:23 -0800 Message-ID: <3299AEE8.540@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 14:37:55 +0000 From: Anton Chovit Reply-To: antonc@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: who controls the mix of the loops? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vceZBD.A.LeD.I9hmy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1228 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 14:39:23 -0800 X-UIDL: da5f8bb6fdabbf660604045041da2e68 Matthias Grob wrote: > Another way would be to mix on stage, maybe one of the musicians would play > less and care for this (with headphones maybe) and send the mix in two > lines. > > Any experiences or sugestions? My brother Chris and I have developed a looping system based around one or more mixers. We run five echoplexs, three jammans and various effect units off of the effect sends of our mixer. Usually, the echoplexs and jammans return to the main inputs. This allows the looping and effecting of loops, etc. We run our instruments into the main inputs. We have gravitated to multibus mixers due to the ability to run each bus to a different amp/speaker/physical location. We started with a single 16 track alesis mixer. This allows for up to six separate outputs (using the monitor bus as channels 5 & 6). We quickly outgrew the inputs and moved to a 32 channel makie. This allowed for up to 10 separate outputs. This was not a very portable set up though. Now we are each using an alesis 16 track mixer. We each control our own suite of instruments/loopers/effects/amplification. This allow for up to 12 separate outputs (six each). If we run a snake between the mixers we can process each other's loops and place them in each other's sound field. We are primarily playing guitar, bass, keyboards, sequencers. The guitars are played through small, high quality guitar combos and feed a line out into the main mixer inputs. This adds two or more sound sources. This may seem like an unmanigable system, but it is really easy to control. By varying the configuration and placement of the different amp/speakers, a wide range of sonic variety is achieved. We have mixed PA speakers, guitar cabinets with 200 watt EV's and 25 watt green backs, and other monitors with good results. We are feeling very comfortable with the current setup and it really lends itself to real time performance. I can't stand to have to think about the technology when I want to play. From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 10:03:19 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 25 11:18:55 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vS6YQ-0000s6-00; Mon, 25 Nov 1996 11:18:54 -0800 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9611251414.ZM7534@sparc.arts.rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 14:14:33 -0500 In-Reply-To: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) "Re: Transcribing Loops." (Oct 21, 9:21pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 06sep94) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Transcribing Loops. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"IMF7uB.A.Lc.sAfmy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1227 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 11:18:54 -0800 X-UIDL: 2db58fefd8079b36d1904e50e511a8b5 matt! what up... did I ask you about the polysubbass gizmo? such a beast would be useful to me. still haven't reached your partner howz the weather? got much snow in NY. my great dane had never seen snow before this morning. ever seen a 130 lb great dane scared of the snow? collier From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 10:03:16 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 25 10:52:15 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vS68a-00063j-00; Mon, 25 Nov 1996 10:52:12 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 16:52:10 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Drummers and Syncing Resent-Message-ID: <"__kBhB.A.uIF.gmemy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1225 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 10:52:12 -0800 X-UIDL: d6becb3d9a06a29301dad2f31301ecb2 RA336 said: >I have spent 9 years in a band with two people looping with delays and two >other people looping with samplers... You are a rare case then. Tell us more! >the delay-based loopers were me (stereo guitar>modified pcm42>jamman and >>our violinist (stereo violin>tc2290>digitech 8 second delay)... Of those machines only Jamman accepts MIDIsync, right? >the sampler loopers were the drummer who generated his own loops and >triggered his own click in a headphones setup... and the keyboard player who >used sampled and sequenced loops. He would at times send midi clock to the >drummer and to the delays in cases where we wanted hard sync. So, how did he do that? >Other times, >mr. drummer was master of time and our subsequently perfomed looping >synce-on-the-fly and previously created and sampled loops all somehow >>managed to sit. Wow! How that? >We were and continue to be (I think) one of the very few song-oriented bands >to be using techniques like these. So it is possible. Sterile? Chaotic? The same as any band, just less musicians? From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 10:03:14 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 25 10:51:55 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vS68E-000615-00; Mon, 25 Nov 1996 10:51:50 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 16:52:24 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: who controls the mix of the loops? Resent-Message-ID: <"Mc9Ud.A.xKF.xmemy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1226 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 10:51:51 -0800 X-UIDL: fac34b80dec58b5cf39be90eb7ad2d73 RA336 said: >Best thing to do though is have your own >sound man, as a house guy who is unfamiliar with your act will have nary a >clue as to what sound is coming from where... >we fooled many This is a serious question, maybe another subject for the Hints. I guess you have the loopers with you on stage. So each player does his own mix. And the technician can fix the result? Or does each loop have a separate line to the desk? And the monitoring? Did anyone try to leave the looper at the mixing desk, use it for several instruments with aux sends? We could operate it through a mic line, each musician having a pedal board. But the sound man would have to know which sends he has to open when how much. Not simple. Another way would be to mix on stage, maybe one of the musicians would play less and care for this (with headphones maybe) and send the mix in two lines. Any experiences or sugestions? From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 10:03:50 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 25 18:45:15 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vSDWK-0003zp-00; Mon, 25 Nov 1996 18:45:12 -0800 Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 21:41:41 -0500 From: RA336@aol.com Message-ID: <961125214139_1951128886@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Drummers and Syncing Resent-Message-ID: <"d_2avB.A.SiD.nklmy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1229 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 18:45:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 3733b5e39a10fb4074e3c479de735ff3 Ok... I was perhaps a bit brief in my explanations... I'll get a little more informative here: >>I have spent 9 years in a band with two people looping with delays and two >>other people looping with samplers... >You are a rare case then. Tell us more! Enrapt with the textural possibilities of looping, (and being a songwriter...) I decided early on to make it my mission to utilize looping in every way available to me in order to expand the palette of the usual band. Having an incredible electric violinist put us well into the game to begin with tho... >>the delay-based loopers were me (stereo guitar>modified pcm42>jamman and >>our violinist (stereo violin>tc2290>digitech 8 second delay)... >Of those machines only Jamman accepts MIDIsync, right? that's right... >>the sampler loopers were the drummer who generated his own loops and >>triggered his own click in a headphones setup... and the keyboard player who >>used sampled and sequenced loops. He would at times send midi clock to the >>drummer and to the delays in cases where we wanted hard sync. >So, how did he do that? The drummer, when triggering rythm-based loops would create a loop of a click sample which would loop at the same rate as his "musical loop. He could monitor all his samples and loops via a mixer in his own setup, and have his "click loop" only show up at his mix, and not to the mix he sent out to the desk. When Mr. Keyboard was in charge of rythm-based loopage, it would likely be in the form of loops which were created earlier and assembled in a hardware sequencer... (much of the time, this would be samples of my guitar-originated loops; but that's another item...) A track of the sequencer was dedicated to sending a note on command- one per measure- to the drummer's sampler. This would trigger the drummer's one-measure click loop, or rythmic pattern loop. In addition, as long as the sequencer is on, it can be set to transmit midi clock which can be read by the JamDude >>Other times, >>mr. drummer was master of time and our subsequently perfomed looping >>synce-on-the-fly and previously created and sampled loops all somehow >>managed to sit. >Wow! How that? Drummer's playing to a click, or to a rythmic loop he has created out of samples. It's a short stretch to figuring out the temporal center, usually in BPM's. Translate that to ms ad you have a basic, but generally very reliable starting point as to how long your loop oughta be. I use the PCM42 for ambient type loops and generally go with a "feel" thing as to how across time I want that part of my material to flow... I would just get a general idea as to where to be lenght-wise for each selection. Then again, when on top of that you are using something like a JamMan or Echoplex, it's just a matter of getting into practice in creating rythm loops on the fly... it goes back to old studio techniques before they had any way of machine talking to machine... they called it "wild syncing". (I've actually seen this done plenty of times in the studio where the engineer will be bouncing tracks from one multitrac to another, with no form of hard sync. It's cool and a little exciting, especially when it works; which it can be made to do with practice...) >>We were and continue to be (I think) one of the very few song-oriented bands >>to be using techniques like these. So it is possible. Sterile? Chaotic? The same as any band, just less musicians? Definately NOT sterile. Lots of fun, and makes for some really thick, beautiful extra-planetary stuff. As for chaos; what's wrong with chaos now an agin? This goes to my original premise of trying to infuse hese elements of strange, unusual and unorthodox into my songs.... ... I get the sense this list is mostly instrumental-music people... It just happens with me that I sing and writing for my voice is an important parallel track I always consider when composing. and no, -not- the same as any other band... that's always the point, aint it?... I'm suprised to see other monster-loopers not much talked about in this forum. Jon Hassell, one of the true originators of the "instrument" does some awesome stuff with his bands. There's also these really talented guys doing this "street" type music with samples, turntables and stuff... incredibe, if you ask me... For those interested, I built most of the music for my last record pretty much entirely from samples created from guitar loops. Here's the work flow: guitar>guitar rig>jamman(receiving sync)>rackmixer outputs>speaker emulator>sampler. since I was creating my loops using a timing reference that was hard-synced to the sequencer, it was just a matter of truncating my samples to have the correct start-point. After that, it was a simple matter to lay the bits into the track from the sampler. I actually got into working this way out of frustration with having no way to store loops I created and wanted to work with. ie.: no dat machine... From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 10:03:52 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 25 18:50:32 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vSDbR-0004VA-00; Mon, 25 Nov 1996 18:50:29 -0800 Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 21:47:37 -0500 From: RA336@aol.com Message-ID: <961125214735_1319030602@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: who controls the mix of the loops? Resent-Message-ID: <"delloD.A.ZDE.Kqlmy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1230 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 18:50:29 -0800 X-UIDL: ea33eb2b864b71dbfdf763eb0dc9eef7 RA336 said: >Best thing to do though is have your own >sound man, as a house guy who is unfamiliar with your act will have nary a >clue as to what sound is coming from where... This is a serious question, maybe another subject for the Hints. I guess you have the loopers with you on stage. So each player does his own mix. - everyone does his own mix and sends it to the front, where the sound man mixes as he thinks appropriate. This is where having someone who knows what is supposed to be happening is a good idea... And the monitoring? - in my group, everyone monitors onstage Did anyone try to leave the looper at the mixing desk, use it for several instruments with aux sends? - sometimes, with a real hip and well rehearsed sound man, this can happen. He would probably need to be more or less a band member in that case; he's contributing a little more on a musical level at that point... Any experiences or sugestions? - figure out the best way to monitor- especially for the drummer- and you are practically there... it's all in hearing what others are doing... From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 10:03:53 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 25 18:52:11 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vSDd2-0004fP-00; Mon, 25 Nov 1996 18:52:08 -0800 Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 21:49:16 -0500 From: RA336@aol.com Message-ID: <961125214914_705997777@emout18.mail.aol.com> To: antonc@earthlink.net, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: who controls the mix of the loops? Resent-Message-ID: <"J492W.A.3NE.wrlmy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1231 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 18:52:08 -0800 X-UIDL: 44e7d0f8b295093c5cc1ffadf9a14ee5 wow Anton; nice post. Really interesting approach you guys cooked up! From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 10:04:00 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 25 20:52:24 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vSFVN-0007jp-00; Mon, 25 Nov 1996 20:52:21 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 02:54:00 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: How does one Sync? Resent-Message-ID: <"WbYfvD.A.P8G.ranmy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1232 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 20:52:21 -0800 X-UIDL: 88d42a7b854b70bb8d6c6c38f50b948e Kim advised: >There are a couple of other things you can do to keep your loops in sync in >a live playing situation. > >One thing you can do is restart the loop from its beginning, at the >appropriate musical point. So if you notice that your loop has drifted a >bit from the rest of the band, you retrigger the loop so that it at least >is starting from the right point. This isn't ideal if the tempo has changed >slightly, but at least it gets things reasonably close together again if >the loop (or the band) has drifted way off. In most rock contexts, you >probably aren't going to have the loop repeating all that many times >anyway, so a few readjustments of a bad loop will get you through a tight >spot. I don't know if you can do this with other loopers, but with the >echoplex you just hit Mute-Undo. (when you are in mute, Undo unmutes and >starts the loop from the beginning.) Since you might not want a hole in the music because of having to mute before restarting the loop, you might set Sync to IN and use a footswitch in the BeatSync socket . Whenever you hit it close to the loop end (or beginning, this is so strange :-), it will restart at the beginning (or end? %-/), correcting a bit. And there were some other ones... Eric? Remember RestartOnlyBeatOne and stuff? We could work out algorithms for this even. We had one that changed the loop length. It was not usefull, because it started to stumble and get clicky. In the future we may be able to time stretch in real time and become able to really speed up and down in real time, not just to sync. From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 10:04:02 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 25 21:51:41 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vSGQg-0005WA-00; Mon, 25 Nov 1996 21:51:34 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 03:54:42 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Transcribing Loops. Resent-Message-ID: <"Z1aSSC.A.58E.nTomy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1233 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 21:51:35 -0800 X-UIDL: fc61c7759d17a7e724b8eaafb096865a >matt! >what up... > >did I ask you about the polysubbass gizmo? >such a beast would be useful to me. If you have a polyphonic pick up, definitally. If not, install one. >still haven't reached your partner Rolf? Did not talk to him either. Should be at 0041 52 233 34 43 >howz the weather? rather hot, thanks. some more rain than usual. clima changes here, too. the dry places in the interior are dryer even and at the cost heavy rain washes roads and roofs away. Matthias From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 10:04:03 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 25 21:52:49 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vSGRq-0005dc-00; Mon, 25 Nov 1996 21:52:46 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 03:56:03 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Plex - JamMan syncing Resent-Message-ID: <"JZsSfC.A.QGF.4Uomy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1234 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 21:52:46 -0800 X-UIDL: ee8628e75d84e21e076a76d70ba4fb6c Hi, Did anyone try to sync a JamMan with an Echoplex? I do not have the specs of the JamMan but imagine that it should work... Sooner or later, probably at a LOOP night (how do you call those planed meetings/shows?) the problem will come up, I guess... Just another way to go Matthias From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 20:24:57 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 26 11:19:42 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vST2g-0001b0-00; Tue, 26 Nov 1996 11:19:38 -0800 Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 11:13:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611261913.LAA19829@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Steve Reich & Musicians Resent-Message-ID: <"PlEL5.A.wBB.cG0my"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1235 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 11:19:38 -0800 X-UIDL: a16137c819d47d5173e67e941c1252f5 murkie writes: > >i agree wholeheartedly about reich's compositional superiority to glass >(yawn). Another vote for Reich over Glass. I find Glass horribly repetitive (not in a good way). To me, all his pieces "sound the same", in the sense of using the same sort of harmonic movement. I just can't listen to it anymore. Maybe one day I'll find an appropriate Reich piece, and make a tape of Koyanisquatsi (sp?) with it dubbed in. ;-) From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 20:25:00 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 26 11:55:30 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vSTbL-0004w6-00; Tue, 26 Nov 1996 11:55:27 -0800 Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 11:50:55 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611261950.LAA25044@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob), Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: My contribution to the LOOP POOL Resent-Message-ID: <"nkv4pB.A.TXE.Bq0my"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1236 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 11:55:27 -0800 X-UIDL: adeabd888a791be79d2df262bbe39a77 Matthias Grob writes: >Hi Ray! > >Did you get tapes? I've gotten tapes from: Studio Seventeen Michael Peters Patrick Smith That's it, so far. Remember folks, send that DAT in! If you haven't recorded it yet, do it on 44.1 so I don't need to do sample-rate conversion. Ray Peck 24653 Summerhill Ave Los Altos, CA 94024 From ???@??? Tue Nov 26 20:25:21 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 26 18:40:25 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vSZvE-0004Wq-00; Tue, 26 Nov 1996 18:40:24 -0800 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 21:42:11 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Steve Reich & Musicians Resent-Message-ID: <"A_6rKD.A.7_D.2l6my"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1237 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 18:40:24 -0800 X-UIDL: 4de096dcd9827a5feec0328c9724baff >murkie writes: >> >>i agree wholeheartedly about reich's compositional superiority to glass >>(yawn). > >Another vote for Reich over Glass. I find Glass horribly repetitive >(not in a good way). To me, all his pieces "sound the same", in the >sense of using the same sort of harmonic movement. I just can't >listen to it anymore. > > >Maybe one day I'll find an appropriate Reich piece, and make a tape of >Koyanisquatsi (sp?) with it dubbed in. ;-) Ummm .... Paul writes, cautiously I am of the opinion that polarizing the work of Reich and Glass is unnecessary. They each have made contributions that have spirited Western music composition and given it a much needed kick in the ass. Whether Glass is too much or too little of something or other relative to Reich is immaterial in my view. Koyanisquatsi as an underscore to the film is a powerful piece for example. Whether it should, or even needs to stand alone, so what! Reich and Glass utilize math in a slightly different way ... Reich is more division oriented while Glass more additive. yadda, yadda, yadda. Einstein on the Beach is hallmark stuff ... I am sure he is as surprised at his popularity as anyone. I have seen both many times, but I am by no means a disciple. They have both made important contributions From ???@??? Wed Nov 27 11:22:18 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 26 21:52:39 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vScvE-0006Zk-00; Tue, 26 Nov 1996 21:52:36 -0800 Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 21:43:18 -0800 Message-Id: <199611270543.VAA13022@ridge.spiritone.com> From: TO: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" X-Application: CyberCreek Mail Express Subject: JamMan odd time sigs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/rtf; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"lqThQD.A.ExF.wY9my"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1238 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 21:52:36 -0800 X-UIDL: 14090f9abda49d5154e18fe64d982555 {\rtf1\ansi\deff0\deftab720{\fonttbl{\f0\fnil MS Sans Serif;}{\f1\fnil\fcharset2 Symbol;}{\f2\fswiss\fprq2 System;}} {\colortbl\red0\green0\blue0;} \deflang1033\pard\plain\f0\fs16\cf0 Greetings all, \par \par I have a friend who has a JamMan and is having trouble syncing (real word?) it up with his Alesis Drum machine while using odd time signatures. The tune is in 7/8 and apparently, JamMan will only sync to a 2 or a 3, such as 3/4 or 4/4. Any help regarding this problem would be vastly appreciated. Reply via personal email if you don't want to clog up the list with all this tech talk. \par \par Thanks. \par \par D.G. \par } From ???@??? Wed Nov 27 11:22:19 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 26 21:53:56 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vScwT-0006i9-00; Tue, 26 Nov 1996 21:53:53 -0800 Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 21:47:10 -0800 Message-Id: <199611270547.VAA13165@ridge.spiritone.com> From: TO: "Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" X-Application: CyberCreek Mail Express Subject: attn: Portland and Northwest Loopers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/rtf; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"7ARvPB.A.nJG.Yc9my"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1239 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 21:53:53 -0800 X-UIDL: d05ff7b5bef71584fc0215ff3574ab93 {\rtf1\ansi\deff0\deftab720{\fonttbl{\f0\fnil MS Sans Serif;}{\f1\fnil\fcharset2 Symbol;}{\f2\fswiss\fprq2 System;}} {\colortbl\red0\green0\blue0;} \deflang1033\pard\plain\f0\fs16\cf0 93 \par \par L.A. is a little far away, don't you think? Let's see about a Loop night in Portland! Maybe Berbatis Pan, or some such. Email me with info and let's set it up! \par \par 93 \par \par Rev. D.G. \par } From ???@??? Wed Nov 27 11:22:22 1996 >From kflint Tue Nov 26 23:26:09 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vSeNj-00072e-00; Tue, 26 Nov 1996 23:26:07 -0800 Message-Id: <199611271031.BAA02954@anc.ak.net> From: "Greg & Sandee West" To: Subject: Re: JamMan odd time sigs Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 22:22:23 -0900 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"3tSHoB.A.HfG._y-my"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1240 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 23:26:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 69c9f298150918947193709bce472c0e Hi, Tell him to try doubling the meter (7/4 to 14/8 or 7/8 to 14/16) for example. If it has trouble syncing to odd numbers, you can probably make it sync to even multiples of the meter. Let me know if it works for him. Greg West From ???@??? Wed Nov 27 11:22:25 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 27 01:29:46 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vSgJM-0001Vg-00; Wed, 27 Nov 1996 01:29:44 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 01:29:07 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Steve Reich & Musicians Resent-Message-ID: <"kqbVtC.A.yQB.bmAny"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1242 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 01:29:44 -0800 X-UIDL: c50cbc0611a405c98d766b3f426e7b84 >murkie writes: >> >>i agree wholeheartedly about reich's compositional superiority to glass >>(yawn). > >Another vote for Reich over Glass. I find Glass horribly repetitive >(not in a good way). To me, all his pieces "sound the same", in the >sense of using the same sort of harmonic movement. I just can't >listen to it anymore. > Just yesterday I pulled out "Music for 18 Musicians", which I hadn't heard in at least 6-7 years. I was surprised at how current it sounded, and at how "electronic" some of the textures were. There was one point that sounded all the world like a LFO-modulated analog filter. > >Maybe one day I'll find an appropriate Reich piece, and make a tape of >Koyanisquatsi (sp?) with it dubbed in. ;-) Reminds me of a 20th Century music class I took. As a final project, one student compared/contrasted the use of Phillip Glass's music in Koyaanisquatsi with Ligeti and Penderecki's in 2001. He used the scene from 2001 where the astronaut is traveling into the monolith, with lots of psychedic animation, accompanied, I believe, by a piece from Ligeti. At the end of the presentation, he showed segments where he had swapped the music, using Ligeti's under a Koyaanisquatsi segment, and Glass's under the segment so badly described above. It was pretty startling. Koyaanisquatsi, which I had always hated, became much more exciting, with the arythmic music bringing out the irregular tempos of the filmmaking and editing. The 2001 segment, which is pretty striking usually, looked pretty silly, the visual effects looking pretty dated. It proved a pretty interesting point about how the music can affect our perception of visuals ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Wed Nov 27 11:22:23 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 27 01:29:26 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vSgJ2-0001UL-00; Wed, 27 Nov 1996 01:29:24 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 01:29:15 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: attn: Portland and Northwest Loopers Resent-Message-ID: <"eRTmMC.A.fQB.ZmAny"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1241 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 01:29:24 -0800 X-UIDL: 16aacb82cd983df3f618359e2edcc1bb >{\rtf1\ansi\deff0\deftab720{\fonttbl{\f0\fnil MS Sans >Serif;}{\f1\fnil\fcharset2 Symbol;}{\f2\fswiss\fprq2 System;}} >{\colortbl\red0\green0\blue0;} >\deflang1033\pard\plain\f0\fs16\cf0 93 >\par >\par L.A. is a little far away, don't you think? Let's see about a Loop >night in Portland! Maybe Berbatis Pan, or some such. Email me with info >and let's set it up! >\par Yes! Count me in! As far as a venue, The "O", formerly the X-Ray, on Burnside has a fairly open booking policy on weeknights. Of course, Berbati's would be pretty cool if possible... I'm willing to help however I can... ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Wed Nov 27 11:22:35 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 27 10:14:46 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vSoVK-0001vJ-00; Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:14:38 -0800 X-Sender: ejmd@pop.erols.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 13:02:19 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ejmd@erols.com (Ed Drake) Subject: Re:Jam Man Odd Time Signatures Resent-Message-ID: <"C8rDkB.A.hh.MIIny"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1244 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:14:38 -0800 X-UIDL: 5ab143707722760717343a022b5467a7 Hello , Sorry not to quote from the original messages, as I deleted them before I responded. The subject was about the Jam Man not allowing syncing with an Alesis drum machine playing odd time signatures. Well, there is way but not it's worth the trouble . You would have to reprogram your drum patterns using step record and quantize say a drum beat pattern in 5/4 to play within in the same time as a measure of 4/4 (or any beat the Jam Man will recognize ). Do this by dividing the total number of pulse per quarter notes (PPQ) for a measure of 4/4 ,which on the Alesis is 4 beats X 384(PPQ)= 1536 pulses per measure. Then divide this by the top number of your time signature, 5 in this case, and that means that each quarter note will occur at approximately 307 pulses apart and then you have to step record everything in doing the math for eighths, sixteenths,etc. Not a lot of fun in my book. I only know this from an incredible drummer friend of mine who programs polyrhythms and tuplets etc. into his drum machine and actually would rather step record as that's the only way he can get some of these rhythms into his machine. The Jam man only syncs up to 3,4 6,8,12,16,24 MIDI quarter notes in a loop. I couldn't believe it didn't sync up to at least a few fairly common odd times other than 3 such as 5,7, and maybe even 11 and 13. This was one of my big complaints to Lexicon when I first got my Jam Man. I spoke to them about it as a possible update and was told they would record my request for inclusion in a possible future software update. I used to call them every couple of months to see if anything was up but nothing has come of it and according to John Durant's post a while back they aren't planning on doing any upgrades. I got my Jam Man when they first came out and I really wish in retrospect I had known the Echoplex was coming out as I might have waited to check it out, but I had been looking for some kind of looping device for a long time and I didn't even hear of the 'Plex for at least 6 months after I had my Jam Man. Oh well, I'm still saving my pennies and dreaming. One question for you 'Plexers , do any of you use MIDI instead of the footswitch to control your Echoplexes . I'm sure the MIDI implementation is extensive for the 'Plex but I haven't heard any of you talk much about it. Here we go Loop de Loop Ed Drake From ???@??? Wed Nov 27 11:22:34 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 27 09:30:52 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vSnoj-00051f-00; Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:30:37 -0800 Message-Id: <1664.199611271723@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 17:23:00 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: pycraft@elec.gla.ac.uk (Dr ) Subject: Re: Steve Reich & Musicians Resent-Message-ID: <"pAXhtC.A.8AE.HkHny"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1243 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:30:37 -0800 X-UIDL: d9b2f0edd7c69b13b2b9ddb843399a52 >>murkie writes: >>> >>>i agree wholeheartedly about reich's compositional superiority to glass >>>(yawn). >> >>Another vote for Reich over Glass. I find Glass horribly repetitive >>(not in a good way). To me, all his pieces "sound the same", in the >>sense of using the same sort of harmonic movement. I just can't >>listen to it anymore. >> >> >>Maybe one day I'll find an appropriate Reich piece, and make a tape of >>Koyanisquatsi (sp?) with it dubbed in. ;-) > >Ummm .... Paul writes, cautiously > >I am of the opinion that polarizing the work of Reich and Glass is >unnecessary. Especially the dissing Glass bit. Let's be a little more openminded here, folks!! Michael Who enjoys Glass. Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, Tel: (+44) 141 330 5979 University of Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8QQ, U.K. "Everything in moderation, including moderation" (Zen Proverb) From ???@??? Thu Nov 28 01:52:06 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 27 13:28:39 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vSrWq-0007GN-00; Wed, 27 Nov 1996 13:28:24 -0800 Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:27:45 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re:Jam Man Odd Time Signatures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"MTsfT.A.jPG.6ELny"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1245 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 13:28:24 -0800 X-UIDL: d29f3616a8eac332f608ca1088f0ff2f On Wed, 27 Nov 1996, Ed Drake wrote: > The Jam man only syncs up to 3,4 6,8,12,16,24 MIDI quarter notes in a loop. > I couldn't believe it didn't sync up to at least a few fairly common odd > times other than 3 such as 5,7, and maybe even 11 and 13. The fact that the JamMan fails to recognize 11/8 is alone and of itself evidence of the unit's inferiority. ;-[ (No flames, people! I'm having some fun here...) Seriously, it's really unfortunate that it can't read 5, 7, 9, or 11 (the hardest-grooving odd meters, IMHO). > One question for you 'Plexers , do any of you use MIDI instead of the > footswitch to control your Echoplexes . > I'm sure the MIDI implementation is extensive for the 'Plex but I haven't > heard any of you talk much about it. I've used the Plex synced up to a sequencer to record loops that are tightly quantized to the beginning and end points of a bar (or bars), including those in odd meter. Record a riff, reverse it at will, and you've practically got a tune right there. There are some fairly recent additions on the web site regarding Echoplex MIDI implementation. Check it out. --Andre From ???@??? Thu Nov 28 01:52:05 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 27 13:28:39 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vSrWs-0007GW-00; Wed, 27 Nov 1996 13:28:26 -0800 Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:35:52 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Loopers invade _Guitar Player_ Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"PVc3vB.A.OQG.9ELny"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1246 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 13:28:26 -0800 X-UIDL: 75e9904944932ee07d27d32723202ffd Hiya! There's a lot of loop content in the current issue of _Guitar Player_ magazine (the 30th anniversary issue). Their feature on "The 30 Most Radical Players" includes quite a few loopists, both well-known (Torn and Frissel) and obscure (so much so that I don't recall their names off the top of my head). There's also a section where the magazine does a retrospective of the most significant gear of each ot the last four decades, and lo and behold, the JamMan and Oberheim Echoplex get mentions in the '90s section. (Though I recall them making a rather strange analogy with it -- something to the effect of, "In the '70s jazzers had fusion, and in the '90s they have looping," going on to claim that real-time loopers are staples of acid-jazz musicians. ?!?!) More, there's a private lesson with Leni Stern. which turns out to be an overdub-by-overdub looping clinic, as well as one with Fripp wherein he details *three* alternate tunings, including one for *seven string* guitar. (Is this news to you people too, or have I been living under a rock all these years?) And in less loop-oriented coverage, my mentor (and frequent Torn collaborator) Miroslav Tadic receives some long-overdue coverage in the "Dirty Thirty" article. Do check it out! --Andre From ???@??? Thu Nov 28 01:52:14 1996 >From kflint Wed Nov 27 19:40:58 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vSxLJ-00020m-00; Wed, 27 Nov 1996 19:40:53 -0800 X-Sender: ejmd@pop.erols.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 22:35:56 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ejmd@erols.com (Ed Drake) Subject: Re: Jam Man Odd Time Signatures Resent-Message-ID: <"5gfPiB.A.-YB.thQny"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1247 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 19:40:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 58506b9e9f25e94339b76d8d5c052720 On Wed, 27 Nov 1996, Andre wrote: >The fact that the JamMan fails to recognize 11/8 is alone and of itself >evidence of the unit's inferiority. ;-[ > >(No flames, people! I'm having some fun here...) > >Seriously, it's really unfortunate that it can't read 5, 7, 9, or 11 (the >hardest-grooving odd meters, IMHO). I couldn't agree with you more Andre ! Andre also said: >I've used the Plex synced up to a sequencer to record loops that are >tightly quantized to the beginning and end points of a bar (or bars), >including those in odd meter. Record a riff, reverse it at will, and >you've practically got a tune right there. > >There are some fairly recent additions on the web site regarding Echoplex >MIDI implementation. Check it out. I've read the posts about syncing via MIDI clock etc. Let me elaborate more clearly about what I meant. I'm assuming like the Jam Man you can send MIDI program change messages to the Echoplex to control all of the functions you access from the foot pedal (Tap) and maybe even some of the front panel functions you can't access from the pedal ( Cue Loops,etc.). Could someone expound on this for me ? The reason I 'm asking is so that if/when(?) I get an Echoplex I'll have some idea of how I can set it up and integrate it with the rest of my stuff. If I can use a MIDI controller like Digital Music's Ground Control or MIDI Midigator by Lake Butler to control from one central location it would be nice. I could maybe save a few bucks too by not having to buy the footswitch! I don't know about you all but I'm always looking for ways to minimize stumbling over yet another footpedal on the floor. My feet are already happy enough. Loopily yours Ed From ???@??? Thu Nov 28 12:39:16 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 28 10:41:57 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vTBPG-0001lW-00; Thu, 28 Nov 1996 10:41:54 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 16:44:05 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Drumming with loops -- some methods (longish) Resent-Message-ID: <"aCb2-C.A.5YB.9wdny"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1248 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 10:41:54 -0800 X-UIDL: 781c28fbd084e6b7a281332f5935faec Matthias Grob wrote: >> Do you allways >> easily hear acurately enough to follow? I understood from the other posts >> that this was a problem? Eric answered: >Practically, yes, this can definitely be a problem. Esp. in live >situations, where the monitoring situation can range from flakey to worse. >I use a small guitar amp, pointed right at me, slaved off the guitarist's >main amp, as a monitor, and this seems to help, both for hearing the >looping and non-looping material. Plus I can control the volume of what's >blasting at my head, which I also like. Thats a good way. I remembered another one, for the Plex: *BeatSync can be input or output*. If you select SYNC = OUT, you get a pulse that is an audible click. So you can draw a line directly from BeatSync to the monitor and turn it up in case of doubt, or so. >(re: post on Hint page) >Yeah, the whole thing should be proof-read and polished up a bit before >before anything. I'm sure my tenses are flying back and forth all over >the place as well. :) Our friends were very quick. I hope you agree with the published version? >> Someone said that in Reggae and other music, the bass is reference and not >> the drums. > >That's true -- would there be anything to add to these tips to generalize >them more, so that they are more appropriate for a variety of genres? Thats what I was looking for. There is input from other experienced people. >> So simple way is to have the bassplayer start his loop first, defining the >> time. He may record just a few "corner" notes, giving a base for every one, >> but also leaving space to "curve" around. > >"curve" and "corner" -- that's a nice way to put it. It just happened while writing. I liked it, too. >> Did you never feel like having your own drum loop going, as a base and sync >> reference for the others? > >Yeah, I do have pedal envy sometimes. :) >Seriously, I have been trying to incorporate some live drums loops into >the whole sheebang. Tried baseing some songs on tape loops, but that had >the problem of being a)very inflexable (at least with pedals/samplers, you >can alter the speed or the loop if desired. With tape, you're stuck.) and >b)damn near inaudible once the whole band got going. Looping loud instruments is difficult really. I wrote a text about this and sent it to Kim where it ended :-). I might post it again. >I've did recently get my own 8-second digitech sampler pedal, and a Roland >SPD-11 drum pad, and have been slowly bringing that in at rehearsals. >Haven't had the guts to try it live yet though. So far, the less >"Realistic" drum sounds seem to be blending in better (the more similar >the sounds are to my kit, the more it just sounds like I'm playing sloppy >if the loop drifts). This way you are save from feedback, too. >Seems like looping non-electronic percussion might be problematic live, >though I'd love to hear from anyone who's done it at all, successful or >not. Bira did it recently here with clay pots, kalimba and small percussion. It turned out very nice, without feedback problems. He played alone and not loud, though. Soon we will know more about this, I guess... Matthias From ???@??? Thu Nov 28 12:39:14 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 28 10:41:57 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vTBPF-0001lR-00; Thu, 28 Nov 1996 10:41:53 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 16:44:16 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Looping acoustic instruments Resent-Message-ID: <"7KMhfD.A.VaB.Ixdny"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1249 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 10:41:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 71d76292b4c7afb6404dd7054e4e2b8e Here are some proposuals to help colegues who want to loop accoustic instruments like percussion. It is written for the ECHOPLEX, but should be similar for other machines. The problems are: a) The difficulty to hear the correct volume of the instruments and mix them correctly into the loop. b) The danger of feedback. Even if the volume is not as high as to create a oscillation, sound from the monitor enters the mike again and is recorded again into the loop, deteriorizing the sound quality and making clean Replace impossible. Pressing Overdub really just while playing improves this situation a lot. The Overdub Mode SUS helps to this. c) Crosstalk from other instruments and noises into the loop. If the drums is playing next to the percussionist or loud in the monitor, the snare will we looped. Whether this is a problem or not depends on the music and the way the loops are used. d) The physical distance of the instruments and the various postures of playing difficult the position of the pedal board. ECHOPLEX pedal boards can be used in parallel. You can have the keys in several places, even in several forms (to operate by knee or elbow, for example) Basically there are three ways to go: 1. A microphone/sound system only for the loop This is the most simple, suitable for rehearsals, small shows: Connect a clip microphone directly to the ECHOPLEX and keep clipping it to the instrument you want to loop. You can prepare a piece of wood on each instrument so you know exactly where to clip the mic and how loud it is going to be. Mark the correct position of the Input control for each instrument so you can adjust it quickly before you play. Wind up the Mix control to "loop". Connect the ECHOPLEX output to some amplifier (preferably not a guitar amp!) and regulate the volume, so the instruments appear about equally loud direct and from the loop. The sound will not be the same, but this can be interesting even. 2. Mixing on stage or by the bands sound man The musician or a smart sound man controls the loops form the mixing desk. The sound can be equalized for each instrument and monitorized. Thus, the difference between the original and the looped sound becomes small. The ECHOPLEX is connected like a reverb to a Aux send and returns to a channel (remember to close the Aux in that channel!). The MIX control is way up to "loop". The problem is the position of the Aux send control in every channel. To optimize cross talk, the sound man should only open the channel that is actually going to be looped. With this setup you can for example maintain a groove on the congas (Aux closed) and throw a cymbal into the loop (Aux open) without having the congas looped (except cross talk). The most perfect solution: Headphones (getting popular anyway!). 3. "Electric" percussion instruments: Could be MIDI sounds, but that's to cold, sometimes. Instruments like Korg WaveDrum are much better, because they bring details of playing techniques through that cannot be recorded by MIDI, but very well in the loop, because there is no problem with noises and feedback. Maybe we should start inventing "electro-acoustic" percussion instruments in the sense of a electro-acoustic guitar: Little resonance and a pick-up in the right place. The sound can become richer, easier to amplify and the instrument can be played very dynamic. Also, a simple piece of metal that has no volume but maybe an interesting sound can turn into a new instrument. In general, this type of instruments will be lighter and smaller, need less stands, less space on stage, can be accessed more imediately. Piezo pick-ups are cheaper than good microphones, need no clamps. Mixing desks with piezo inputs (impedance >1MOhm) are not common yet, but most ordinary ones can be modified easily. This is the most futuristic way. It will take time and efforts, but we will end up there. Matthias Grob Salvador, April 96 From ???@??? Thu Nov 28 12:39:17 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 28 11:56:09 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vTCZ5-0007IX-00; Thu, 28 Nov 1996 11:56:07 -0800 Message-Id: <199611282302.OAA15285@anc.ak.net> From: "Greg & Sandee West" To: Subject: Re: Looping acoustic instruments Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 10:54:10 -0900 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-Xzpn.A.2sG.m3eny"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1250 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 11:56:07 -0800 X-UIDL: 12e6b32befbea5dc441099a1ef9a4ad4 Hi to all my Looping brethen and sisters, In my concerts, I incorporate acoustic guitar as well as electric and synth guitar into my loops. I use both magnetic and piezo pickups on my acoustics and switch between them for different sounds. I usually run the piezo pickups through EQ and reverb for a natural sound, and I use the magnetic pickup through the looping gear. The piezo pickup can be hard to control feedback, because it responds more readily to the body resonances induced by the looped audio. The magnetic pickup gets processed through my pedalboard (Boss ME-X digital effector with a Metal Zone, Dual Overdrive, and a Compressor). I use that to get electrified sounds out of the acoustic. E-Bow is also a great addition and can be used in conjunction with the magnetic pickup. It's fun to watch the reactions of the audience when you suddenly pull "Frippish" sustained notes out of an acoustic 12-string loop. I have enjoyed the comments of the list members immensely. I wish there were other loopers in Alaska that I could jam with. I haven't found any so far! The comments of the drummers on the list have been especially interesting. I've experimented using sequenced drums, but have found the results to be too limiting. I'd love to find a jazz drummer in the style of Jon Christiansen (he recorded with Ralph Towner on the Solstice albums) who can play very light textures with driving intensity. Anyhow, take care all. Happy looping!! Greg West Please reply to: GregWest01@aol.com Website: http://users.aol.com/GregWest01/index.html From ???@??? Fri Nov 29 00:14:49 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 28 16:33:03 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vTGt4-0003no-00; Thu, 28 Nov 1996 16:33:02 -0800 X-Sender: ejmd@pop.erols.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 19:32:04 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ejmd@erols.com (Ed Drake) Subject: Re: Jam Man Odd Time / Plexs MIDI Resent-Message-ID: <"D8M-I.A.SbD.V7iny"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1252 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 16:33:02 -0800 X-UIDL: bb54e2e8a54203c2c12414ff56ad7dcf Matthias said this about the Oberheim Echoplex : >All front keys are controllable by MIDI or hardware pedal. >Program change only will work in the upgrade. The main reason is that many >Plex functions are based on holding the key, which is not possible with >program change. We are figuring out a sceme where you can access these long >press functions with additional program numbers. So to do all, you might >end up with about 15 keys... > >>( Cue Loops,etc.) > >What do you mean? Let's say you've recorded 4 loops in the Jam Man and are playing them back for soloing over them or to use as different sections of a piece , if you wanted to jump from loop 1 straight to loop 4 , you can just send the proper MIDI program change number and it will happen, whereas if you were using the footswitches, you would have to tap and scroll in order from loop 1 thru loops 2 and 3 to get to loop 4. It's very distracting to have to do this and it's very easy to overshoot and go past where you wanted to stop , in which case you'd have to scroll thru again and stop on loop 4. Also, any recent news about the 'Plex upgrade ? >>If I can use a MIDI controller like Digital >>Music's Ground Control or MIDI Midigator by Lake Butler to control from one >>central location it would be nice. I could maybe save a few bucks too by >>not having to buy the footswitch! > >Good way to go. I do not know about Digital Music's Ground Control, but >Midigator can send control changes, so you can have all functions even with >the present version of the Plex. Digital Music's Ground Control has inputs for 2 expression pedals and can send continuous controller messages programmable per patch , is this what you are talking about ? >Most people do not like the keys of the Oberheim pedal board. I do not use >it either. Matthias, what switching system/footswitches etc., do you use for your 'Plex ? Thanks, Ed From ???@??? Fri Nov 29 00:14:48 1996 >From kflint Thu Nov 28 15:06:50 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vTFXc-0005ah-00; Thu, 28 Nov 1996 15:06:48 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 21:09:32 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Jam Man Odd Time / Plexs MIDI Resent-Message-ID: <"n-clM.A.BDF.wphny"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1251 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 15:06:48 -0800 X-UIDL: 1542545770a5e5f1c1a94f239dfea495 Ed sed: >I've read the posts about syncing via MIDI clock etc. Let me elaborate more >clearly about what I meant. I'm assuming like the Jam Man you can send MIDI >program change messages to the Echoplex to control all of the functions you >access from the foot pedal (Tap) and maybe even some of the front panel >functions you can't access from the pedal All front keys are controllable by MIDI or hardware pedal. Program change only will work in the upgrade. The main reason is that many Plex functions are based on holding the key, which is not possible with program change. We are figuring out a sceme where you can access these long press functions with additional program numbers. So to do all, you might end up with about 15 keys... >( Cue Loops,etc.) What do you mean? >If I can use a MIDI controller like Digital >Music's Ground Control or MIDI Midigator by Lake Butler to control from one >central location it would be nice. I could maybe save a few bucks too by >not having to buy the footswitch! Good way to go. I do not know about Digital Music's Ground Control, but Midigator can send control changes, so you can have all functions even with the present version of the Plex. Most people do not like the keys of the Oberheim pedal board. I do not use it either. Matthias From ???@??? Fri Nov 29 14:09:57 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 29 12:28:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vTZXk-0002iT-00; Fri, 29 Nov 1996 12:28:16 -0800 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 15:29:27 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: echoplex prices? Resent-Message-ID: <"0yQeS.A.FUC.Qa0ny"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1253 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 12:28:16 -0800 X-UIDL: 1b872cd3aa7dbb239806405615f77b39 do any of the echoplex users know what a good price on one is and where to get it? thanks, Paul From ???@??? Sat Nov 30 02:08:49 1996 >From kflint Fri Nov 29 21:34:13 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vTi44-0000gU-00; Fri, 29 Nov 1996 21:34:12 -0800 Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 21:29:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611300529.VAA18518@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <1664.199611271723@rank-serv.elec.gla.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Steve Reich & Musicians Resent-Message-ID: <"unScOC.A.pZ.2Z8ny"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1254 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 21:34:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 50d1a53880f1425634c0b4481bc8c380 >Especially the dissing Glass bit. Let's be a little more openminded here, >folks!! As the Glass-disser, let me just say that I liked him a lot about 10 years ago. "It is good to be open minded, but not so open minded that your brain falls out of your head." - Carl Sagan From ???@??? Sat Nov 30 11:40:41 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 30 02:10:55 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vTmNp-0002aN-00; Sat, 30 Nov 1996 02:10:53 -0800 Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 05:09:18 -0500 (EST) From: JOHNPOLLOCK@delphi.com Subject: Vortex Alert and formal delurk To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Message-id: <01ICG1916VIW971O3I@delphi.com> X-VMS-To: INTERNET"Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Resent-Message-ID: <"L4-FQ.A.ZUC.YfAoy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1255 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 02:10:53 -0800 X-UIDL: 394191254c9216f6176a9e865bd11488 Hello, Just in case someone still wants one, the Guitar Center "December Deal Days" catalog announces a "Last Chance On Lexicon Price Breakthrough!" on the Vortex at $149.99. Presumably, they have enough left to warrant the catalog space. They also advertise the DOD DFX94 4-second sampler/delay stompbox for $120-- can anyone give a real-world review of this unit? Is it worth the money? I've been reading the newsletter and visiting the Web site since Kim made the announcement in the Digital Guitar Digest. I'm delurking now because I feel a flood of questions and comments building up, and think it only fair to give you an idea who they're coming from. I'm possibly the oldest reader of this list (still 51, for a few weeks), and likely one of the newest loop addicts (I got my Vortex three weeks ago today). I played music for a living for 15 years, beginning as a steel guitarist and ending up as a one-person band, driving a pair of synthesizers with a MIDI guitar and a MIDI pedal keyboard while singing or playing harmonica. I "retired" several years ago, after I realized I dreaded going to work; I'm now beginning to recapture the joy of making music for its own sake, and for mine. Rather than burdening the list with details of my gear, I invite anyone interested to my Troubador Tech Web site (URL in sig), which is devoted to tools and techniques of possible interest to the solo simultaneous multiinstrumentalist. It includes the modest beginning of a page on delays and looping, where you can find out how to get four delays of up to 12 seconds each from a Casio VZ-series synthesizer. I'm deeply grateful to everyone who contributes to this project, for the information and the inspiration. May all your loops yield happy surprises! John Email: johnpollock@delphi.com Troubador Tech on the Web--http://people.delphi.com/johnpollock/ From ???@??? Sat Nov 30 11:40:46 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 30 05:44:33 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vTpia-0003qR-00; Sat, 30 Nov 1996 05:44:32 -0800 Date: Sat, 30 Nov 96 08:14:17 EST From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) Message-Id: <9611301314.AA02688@ibx.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: echoplex prices? Resent-Message-ID: <"YmN8r.A.xeD.9mDoy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1256 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 05:44:32 -0800 X-UIDL: 0db75726a2e47af5bf455ad563508a2d Regarding echoplex prices, I think it is important to differentiate between digital and analog. From ???@??? Sat Nov 30 11:40:49 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 30 07:15:43 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vTr8o-0001Tl-00; Sat, 30 Nov 1996 07:15:42 -0800 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 10:19:00 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Steve Reich & Musicians Resent-Message-ID: <"KqC8.A.3RB.M9Eoy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1257 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 07:15:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 026d008b595f0da75a9351aedfbd5a21 >>Especially the dissing Glass bit. Let's be a little more openminded here, >>folks!! > >As the Glass-disser, let me just say that I liked him a lot about 10 >years ago. > >"It is good to be open minded, but not so open minded that your brain > falls out of your head." - Carl Sagan grow up ray From ???@??? Sat Nov 30 11:40:51 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 30 07:17:37 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vTrAf-0001dG-00; Sat, 30 Nov 1996 07:17:37 -0800 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 10:21:05 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: echoplex prices? Resent-Message-ID: <"g07E9.A.BcB.J_Eoy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1258 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 07:17:37 -0800 X-UIDL: 98f7f635e4d54e98874ef089e8a210f7 >Regarding echoplex prices, I think it is important to differentiate >between digital and analog. I am interested in the digital ... with foot pedal and decent memory From ???@??? Sat Nov 30 21:56:58 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 30 19:10:24 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vU2IQ-0001YC-00; Sat, 30 Nov 1996 19:10:22 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 21:28:25 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Re: Vortex Alert and formal delurk Resent-Message-ID: <"NXFdm.A.4SB.waPoy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1260 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 19:10:22 -0800 X-UIDL: 496d2fdc221c9b8ee6b4b6b6eb280ced >Hello, > >Just in case someone still wants one, the Guitar Center "December Deal >Days" catalog announces a "Last Chance On Lexicon Price Breakthrough!" >on the Vortex at $149.99. Hi John, Can you give me a phone number for them. I already have one Vortex, but at this price I'm tempted to buy another..... Patrick BTW I'm 40....... From ???@??? Sat Nov 30 17:54:20 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 30 17:39:49 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vU0sm-0003WE-00; Sat, 30 Nov 1996 17:39:48 -0800 Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 17:33:57 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199612010133.RAA07996@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Steve Reich & Musicians Resent-Message-ID: <"WHg0VD.A.H-C.FDOoy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1259 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 17:39:48 -0800 X-UIDL: 4941b399aee7b70defb4b0de2dba4112 Paul Poplawski, Phd writes: >>>Especially the dissing Glass bit. Let's be a little more openminded here, >>>folks!! >> >>As the Glass-disser, let me just say that I liked him a lot about 10 >>years ago. >> >>"It is good to be open minded, but not so open minded that your brain >> falls out of your head." - Carl Sagan > >grow up ray I hope I never do, thanks. From ???@??? Sat Nov 30 21:57:05 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 30 19:52:19 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vU2x0-0004HR-00; Sat, 30 Nov 1996 19:52:18 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 01:54:46 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Jam Man Odd Time / Plexs MIDI Resent-Message-ID: <"ucbI9C.A.fzD.HBQoy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1261 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 19:52:18 -0800 X-UIDL: a6037827d063f277275b229e97aebc73 Ed asked >>>( Cue Loops,etc.) >Let's say you've recorded 4 loops in the Jam Man and are playing them back >for soloing over them or to use as different sections of a piece , if you >wanted to jump from loop 1 straight to loop 4 , you can just send the >proper MIDI program change number and it will happen, whereas if you were >using the footswitches, you would have to tap and scroll in order from loop >1 thru loops 2 and 3 to get to loop 4. It's very distracting to have to do >this and it's very easy to overshoot and go past where you wanted to stop , >in which case you'd have to scroll thru again and stop on loop 4. Also, any >recent news about the 'Plex upgrade ? Yes, sure, I should have sent you this plan right away. It shows you the 4 states of the ControlSource parameters and the possibilities to control through MIDI. ControlSource = OFF: Notes ignored Controllers ignored ProgramCh parameter sets ControlSource = not: Notes functions and switch loops Controllers volume / feedback ProgramCh parameter sets, switch loops ControlSource = Cnt.: Notes switch loops Controllers functions / volume / feedback ProgramCh parameter sets, switch loops ControlSource = Pro: Notes switch loops Controllers volume / feedback ProgramCh functions, parameter sets, switch loops The present soft is without ProgramCh. In the update its working. "switch loops" it what you called "cue", which might be a better name... Kim? The functions are in a fixed sequence, but you can control the start of this sequence with the Source # parameter. Parameter sets are allways ProgramCh 1...4 Volume and Feedback controller # can be chosen independently. >Digital Music's Ground Control has inputs for 2 expression pedals and can >send continuous controller messages programmable per patch , is this what >you are talking about ? Yes. So far the keys need to be programmable to send ControlChanges which only the more sophisticated ones are. >Matthias, what switching system/footswitches etc., do you use for your 'Plex ? For the LOOP delay we used italian footswitches: Square aluminum base, connectable, plastic lever. Roland has similar ones. Instead of the original switches we built short throw keys into them and modified the lever for a short action, too. So it perfect for taping. I connect those switches to a pedal board. It ends up more expensive and a bit bigger and a lot better. If more people are interested, we could order 100 in italy, someone could mount them with my support and sell them to the interested. Selling them for 30, you can earn something. For those who need all 7 switches, this might be too expensive. Another option would be to buy only the plastic parts (really cheap!) and form a one piece board to install 7 of them. Another option is to order them at PARADIS, but I am not shure whether Rolf has parts and energy to still make them. Fax=phone=011 41 52 233 34 43 From ???@??? Sat Nov 30 21:57:07 1996 >From kflint Sat Nov 30 19:52:48 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vU2xR-0004Ji-00; Sat, 30 Nov 1996 19:52:45 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 01:56:00 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Steve Reich & Musicians Resent-Message-ID: <"BWpvMC.A.G5D.LCQoy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1262 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 19:52:45 -0800 X-UIDL: f816006b2b420a3393c5ce94587425a4 >>>Especially the dissing Glass bit. Let's be a little more openminded here, >>>folks!! >> >>As the Glass-disser, let me just say that I liked him a lot about 10 >>years ago. >> >>"It is good to be open minded, but not so open minded that your brain >> falls out of your head." - Carl Sagan > >grow up ray Hahaha, you guys are too much. I do not listen to Glass music, because I do not feel it does any good to me - but lets not mesure mindopenness with it, please. Any music makes sense in the right context, no music in every. From ???@??? Mon Nov 04 20:57:59 1996 >From kflint Mon Nov 4 01:22:13 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vKLES-0004kK-00; Mon, 4 Nov 1996 01:22:12 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 16:52:45 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: lx303@nicom.com (steev geest) Subject: Re: new standard tuning Resent-Message-ID: <"DuHos.A.OaE._Vbfy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/980 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 01:22:12 -0800 X-UIDL: 47aa02cdaa11b250fce7d4ac20a44bef >>C G D A E G > >I do not think I will learn another tuning with a irregularity. > >>3) Forget about BENDING. It will break strings, almost always. (Of course >>you can get away with on the bottom 3 or 4 strings if you really want. > >I would rather play without strings than without bending. > >Thanks a lot anyway. >Matthias I've been using this tuning for years and have never had a problem with breaking strings. Popping strings has more to do with your technique then with a tuning..Or maybe your guitar setup is to blame?? Steev