From ???@??? Tue Oct 01 00:05:47 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 1 00:02:55 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] (mail) by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7yr1-0003vT-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:02:55 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v7yr2-0005hU-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:02:56 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7yr3-0004TM-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:02:57 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:00:16 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: sustainor Resent-Message-ID: <"EYDtH.A.8KE.mHMUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/313 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:02:57 -0700 X-UIDL: 3c354c2a75a3a8dab220d20b4f3c5eb0 >so, about these fernades sustainors... who what when and where can I get the >parts from? Fernandes isn't entirely helpful, do you have a contact there? >Dealers seem to be useless. > >I'll be perusing pawn shops in NYC > >collier I'm not sure about the parts. I've heard that you have to get it special ordered from Japan, and it costs $400 in the US. I've met the Artists Relations Director from Fernandes, he might be able to help although he's probably not the right guy. His name is Scott Uchida, phone = 818-988-6790. >From what I've heard, once you've bought the parts and had it installed, you've probably spent more than it would have cost to buy one of their guitars with it built in. And since the tolerences have to be fairly exact for it to work right, you have to find a tech that knows how to do it properly. I bought the guitar at a sale at Bananas at Large. Cost $300 and worth it, I think. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Oct 01 01:36:15 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 1 00:08:05 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] (mail) by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7yw0-000441-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:08:04 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v7yw2-0005kj-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:08:06 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7yw3-0004Y9-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:08:07 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:04:55 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: New/old toys! Resent-Message-ID: <"VJw39.A.kPE.8LMUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/314 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:08:07 -0700 X-UIDL: 2f26923599a99cd09088c8498bb77ed7 Dave said: >I went to a guitar show in eastern Iowa yesterday and horse-traded a >couple of *great* pieces. :} First, I traded my old Boss Pitch >Shifter/Delay (my first awful looping device), a fuzz box, and $15 for >an ADA expression pedal, an ADA quad footswitch, and... a DeltaLabs >Echotron. I've seen these in Black Market music in SF, but never tried it. Seems to me a friend of mine actually knew something about it. If I remember who it was, I'll ask him.... >The Echotron is just *gorgeous*. It's an early-80s long >(250ms-4096ms) delay line, with infinite repeat capability. >Monophonic (of course), LED tempo flashers on the front panel, sync >clock output, and a beautiful tone. No CPU or VLSI anywhere >inside... it looks like everything is in TTL logic. The sound >quality, while not as "pure" as the CD-quality boxes we see these >days, has a funky, analogish richness that doesn't mangle the guitar's >dynamics the way the new boxes do (funny how "dynamic range" is such a >complete crock when real music is involved). It even overdrives well, >lots better than my JamMan! And of course, the delay time knob >smoothly manipulates the pitch of echoes already in the machine, a >technique I've much missed with the Lexicon tap-delay stuff. Sounds like a score! Mind if I lift your text and use it for a little blurb on the web page? Some day we may manage to get a fairly complete history of all these funky toys.... If you find any more info on it, let me know and I'll put that up there too. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Oct 01 21:48:29 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 1 07:12:22 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] (mail) by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v85Yc-0004Ii-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 07:12:22 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v85Yc-0006NJ-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 07:12:22 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v85Yb-00051Y-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 07:12:21 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <960930215701_115087114@emout03.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 07:10:10 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: hyperprism Resent-Message-ID: <"MPlW-B.A.arE.IYSUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/316 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 07:12:21 -0700 X-UIDL: 8e1b90c8aa27e9ed1a753fe72a98b882 >>I've been toying with the idea of setting up a mac IIci with >hyperprism to >do >>looping and midi controlled spacial effects. I might put a >samplecell card >in >>it also. anyone done this? I haven't...I'm fascinated though....what is hyperprism? And what midi controlled spatial effects do you use? I don't suppose they are reasonably priced...... - chris --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Tue Oct 01 21:48:56 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 1 12:13:20 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] (mail) by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8AFr-0001NN-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:13:19 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v8AFl-0004cT-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:13:13 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8AFl-0007Aw-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:13:13 -0700 Message-Id: <199610011911.MAA13484@scv1.apple.com> Subject: Re: hyperprism Date: Tue, 1 Oct 96 12:15:43 -0000 x-sender: attix@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Tom Attix* To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"B1Oej.A.3sG.myWUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/319 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:13:13 -0700 X-UIDL: 107f46442afd0a6e79042dd947f3ec7e >arboretum has a web page, I'll look it up http://www.arboretum.com/index.html -Tom Attix _______________________________________________ attix@apple.com _______________________________________________ "Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps". - Emo Phillips From ???@??? Tue Oct 01 21:48:27 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 1 06:07:42 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] (mail) by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v84Y1-0002ak-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 06:07:41 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v84Y0-0005nQ-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 06:07:40 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v84Xz-0004bq-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 06:07:39 -0700 Message-Id: <199610011305.AA16382@internet-mail.ford.com> From: "Steven R. Murrell" To: "'Loop'" Subject: Address for Bios Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:02:43 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"rYSqm.A.ATE.IcRUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/315 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 06:07:39 -0700 X-UIDL: bddcb4630d9f8d7e0f99b135e31caa30 Help! I misplaced the address to which we were to send our short biographical forms. Could someone please post this address one more time? Thanks, Steve Murrell smurrell@ford.com From ???@??? Tue Oct 01 21:48:31 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 1 07:24:11 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] (mail) by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v85k2-0004ez-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 07:24:10 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v85k2-0006VA-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 07:24:10 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v85k0-00058J-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 07:24:08 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 09:21:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: New/old toys! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"aNSN2D.A.hyE.PkSUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/317 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 07:24:08 -0700 X-UIDL: 43dbc7056be2f89a642fda5c10034dc1 When I find out more, and gather some experience with it, I'll do a nice writeup for you, Kim. In the meantime, feel free to put my comments on the web page. :} If any of you run across another one of these babies and don't want it, let me know. But I suspect that if you do find one, you'll be snapping it up yourself. That's what *I'd* do! It does two things the JamMan doesn't do that I've really missed. First, it lets you use it as a regular delay, with regular feedback control, and turn on infinite repeat when you like what you have. Second, you can vary the pitch of the content of the delay with the delay time knob. Hee! I used to own a Digitech Two Second Delay, and the controls are similar. The big difference is that the Echotron's sound doesn't suck all the life out of my tone. Yay! -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. /* dstagner@icarus.leepfrog.com */ -Charles Fort /* http://www.leepfrog.com/~dstagner */ From ???@??? Tue Oct 01 21:48:47 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 1 11:02:32 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] (mail) by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v899L-0005qM-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:02:31 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v899H-0003Vb-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:02:27 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v899H-0006eS-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:02:27 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9610011358.ZM52274@marcus.its.rpi.edu> Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 13:58:35 -0400 In-Reply-To: Chris Chovit "Re: hyperprism" (Oct 1, 7:16am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 07feb95) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: hyperprism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"cYeO2.A.iMG.kvVUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/318 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 11:02:27 -0700 X-UIDL: d76916f610a14d982f3cf346527893a7 chris, (and thanks RA) hyperprism is put out by arboretum systems. it's relatively expensive. it's generally mac platform for sound tools, audiomedia, protools tdm, stand alone or with tdm, and now for powerpc standalone. uh, well,,, it's something you would have to get into. there are stereo-morestereo-hyperstereo effects along with phase-flange-chorus-doppler-pitch-time-delay and etc.... arboretum has a web page, I'll look it up collier From ???@??? Tue Oct 01 21:48:57 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 1 12:24:49 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] (mail) by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8AQy-0001s2-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:24:48 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v8AQv-0004qt-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:24:45 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8AQu-0007Ha-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:24:44 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:18:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610011918.MAA13586@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <199609251953.PAA25345@octopus.ab.platinum.com> Subject: Re: Plex Pricing Resent-Message-ID: <"lds8hC.A.5yG.m7WUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/320 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:24:44 -0700 X-UIDL: 5fc83f30208bb77cd3948ccf81a871ae Clark Battle writes: > >I just got off the phone with Nadine's and the $500 >price is confirmed. They dont have any in stock though. I am interested in a group discount. From ???@??? Tue Oct 01 21:48:58 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 1 12:42:06 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] (mail) by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8Ahg-0002dD-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:42:04 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v8Ahf-00057H-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:42:03 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8Ahe-0007QZ-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:42:02 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:37:20 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Address for Bios In-Reply-To: <199610011305.AA16382@internet-mail.ford.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ly06-B.A.W8G.SOXUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/321 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 12:42:02 -0700 X-UIDL: e33959a020b8e96d6ddca09229c28315 On Tue, 1 Oct 1996, Steven R. Murrell wrote: > Help! I misplaced the address to which we were to send our short > biographical forms. Could someone please post this address one more time? Send it to me. (altruist@music.calarts.edu) BTW, many people have already responded; quite a wide range of loopists. There are still a few conspicuous absences (paging Misters Flint, Durant, and Aceto...) so get them in when you can! --Andre From ???@??? Tue Oct 01 21:49:22 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 1 15:33:33 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] (mail) by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8DNc-0002eG-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 15:33:32 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v8DNa-0000Dx-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 15:33:30 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8DNb-0000ir-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 15:33:31 -0700 Date: Tue, 01 Oct 96 17:25:32 CST From: "Todd Madson" Message-Id: <9609018442.AA844216342@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: sustainor Resent-Message-ID: <"BIFuR.A.8n.tsZUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/322 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 15:33:31 -0700 X-UIDL: ee736cce1ef85446eb02f907d83c9b91 I read in a Hamer Guitars catalog that one of their strat shaped metal sort of guitars has a sustainor built in. That would probably be a better instrument than some of the lower end guitars that has this feature built in. Todd Madson. Received: from spica.LaserMaster.Com by ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com (SMTPLINK V2.10.08) ; Tue, 01 Oct 96 02:07:51 CST Return-Path: Received: from mouse.slip.net (mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102]) by spica.LaserMaster.Com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA12822 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 02:07:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v7yqm-0004T4-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:02:40 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:00:16 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: sustainor Resent-Message-ID: <"EYDtH.A.8KE.mHMUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/313 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: ToddM@lasermaster.com Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 00:02:40 -0700 From ???@??? Tue Oct 01 21:49:30 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 1 17:08:48 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] (mail) by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8Ern-0007iH-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 17:08:47 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v8Erk-0002ZN-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 17:08:44 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8Erl-0001Je-00; Tue, 1 Oct 1996 17:08:45 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 17:04:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610020004.RAA18922@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <9609291019.ZM18349@marcus.its.rpi.edu> Subject: Re: Plex Pricing Resent-Message-ID: <"sAm_iD.A._LB.fHbUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/323 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 17:08:45 -0700 X-UIDL: d2414bd1aab4286cb2bc69c0091f507e "Louis Collier Hyams" writes: >matthias and olivier. >tupkal is the achronym we as a group have more or less given to the unseen >echoplex systems upgrade. the second bit was about wise financial choices and >when to purchase the echoplex. ie... I think they were wondering about the "shoot my wad" idiom that you so skillfully employed. ;-) From ???@??? Thu Oct 03 01:58:21 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 2 02:38:21 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] (mail) by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8Nky-0005by-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 02:38:20 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v8Nkv-0004Ut-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 02:38:17 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8Nkr-0001QE-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 02:38:13 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 00:23:31 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Amplification Resent-Message-ID: <"2xj0sB.A.Z1.x4eUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/324 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 02:38:13 -0700 X-UIDL: 5a1267b61874afb7ab4c1fc1afcc6979 Teed Rockwell wrote >... Its easy to talk yourself into >believing that it does, when you think of all the trouble the guitar amp >causes, >but in my case, I'm certain that they don't come even close. If you have an ideal, the copy never comes close enough. If you talk yourself into wanting to find out the ways of expression in a cheap, handy, versatile gear, you may find that there are more than you had, allthough all different. It means relearning the instrument, maybe? Or even disconnect from the sound tradition (of the 60ies)? For me it happened when a high end speaker builder (Peter Gregor) listened to all my problems of imitating "bad" speakers and finally said: "why dont you just play your instrument with the truest signal that you can get out of it?" So I started to play piezo pickup pure into linear system and found the way to play it softly and liking it and later I started to modify the sound with what pleased. Well, Peter also told me that "bad" speakers produce low harmonics and that the guitar players might like this aditional low bass. So I built the POLYSUBBASS, a 3 string octave divider with "priority". Unfortunately, it only works with polyphonic instruments. But there are ways to create the effect from mono, too. I may be wrong Matthias From ???@??? Thu Oct 03 01:58:56 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 2 10:23:29 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] (mail) by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8V16-0004DL-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:23:28 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v8V13-0003DK-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:23:25 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8V13-0005dF-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:23:25 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:16:25 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: BIOS: Update Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"YrljdB.A.jBF.FQqUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/329 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 10:23:25 -0700 X-UIDL: 1261ab4ca61e6d16744d4f746e1f1aec 'Lo people -- I've got 20 submissions for the profile sheet thus far; the range of both the musical styles and the personalities expressed in the profiles is really something else. I'm going to start compiling the list this weekend, and send the initial batch off to Kim probably around Sunday (perhaps later, depending on time...) So if you want to be included in the charter run of the index, be sure to mail me your profile before the weekend. Thanks again to everyone who's contributed thus far. I think you'll all get a real kick out of the result; I'll post the index to the list once it's compiled. Bye for now, --Andre From ???@??? Thu Oct 03 01:59:13 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 2 11:20:24 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] (mail) by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8VuA-00070k-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 11:20:22 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v8Vu8-00043D-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 11:20:20 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8Vu8-0001JM-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 11:20:20 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:20:31 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: sustainor Resent-Message-ID: <"Pox-vB.A.vAB.NGrUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/331 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 11:20:20 -0700 X-UIDL: ca48e6317d002a6f2283196dfaa013ad >I read in a Hamer Guitars catalog that one of their strat shaped metal >sort of guitars has a sustainor built in. That would probably be a >better instrument than some of the lower end guitars that has this >feature built in. > >Todd Madson. The Fernandez guitars I have seen were better than the Hamer guitars I have seen. Is that still a list topic? Matthias From ???@??? Thu Oct 03 01:59:12 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 2 11:19:47 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] (mail) by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8Vta-0006zH-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 11:19:46 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v8VtY-00042c-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 11:19:44 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8VtY-0001Gk-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 11:19:44 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:20:35 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Plex Pricing Resent-Message-ID: <"Qh9MQD.A.p_._FrUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/330 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 11:19:44 -0700 X-UIDL: 5beddc8148946705259695945d01388a Collier Hyams wrote: >>matthias and olivier. >>tupkal is the achronym ... Ray helped: >I think they were wondering about the "shoot my wad" idiom that you so >skillfully employed. ;-) Yes, I did not feel like asking again, but continue curious to learn. I can teach you some swiss or portugese "idioms", if you like - off list ;-) It was "blow my wad in a lump" and >what do the calartians have for machines now? web space and such? would it be >possible to use some of that? rippy(rpi) has relatively cheap per meg rates, >but my program is super intensive and may not have enough hours per carpeyed >diem. Thanks Matthias From ???@??? Thu Oct 03 01:59:35 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 2 13:19:35 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] (mail) by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8XlW-0004uH-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 13:19:34 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v8XlT-0005uy-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 13:19:31 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8XlT-000459-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 13:19:31 -0700 Date: 02 Oct 96 16:11:17 EDT From: Teed Rockwell <74164.3703@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Amplification Message-ID: <961002201117_74164.3703_GHQ62-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"DgL79C.A._yD.N2sUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/332 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 13:19:31 -0700 X-UIDL: 05eb0f407190533a79877c25bc018691 Mathias writes: If you have an ideal, the copy never comes close enough. If you talk yourself into wanting to find out the ways of expression in a cheap, handy, versatile gear, you may find that there are more than you had, allthough all different. It means relearning the instrument, maybe? Or even disconnect from the sound tradition (of the 60ies)? I would love to be proven wrong about this, but you should realise that I tried talking myself into exactly that position for almost 20 years. I am not an anti-transistor luddite who refused to even consider the possibility you mention. In fact I use a digital reverb-delay as a supplement to the tube sound, to get both digital brittleness and tube warmth. Part of it maybe that the stick, not having a body, needs that extra tube tone. There may be something to your comment about my being connected to the sixties. When I first played my stick through a fender twin, I realised that I hadn't heard that sound since I gave up playing guitar 22 years ago, and that I had not sounded that good since. (My original Fender twin was accidentally set on fire by a Hendrix clone friend of mine who wrapped tin foil around the fuse after it blew out) All of of these choices are highly individual, though. I'm not trying to convert anybody, just to add my voice to the multitude Teed Rockwell P.S. attention all loopers: please sign your posts. I get no headings when I receive them, and have no other way of identifying you. From ???@??? Thu Oct 03 01:59:40 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 2 14:35:48 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8YxH-0001kh-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:35:47 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v8YxF-0000Av-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:35:46 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8YxF-0004cB-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:35:45 -0700 From: pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu (Paolo Valladolid) Message-Id: <199610022129.OAA14932@waynesworld.ucsd.edu.> Subject: Re: Amplification To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:29:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <961002201117_74164.3703_GHQ62-2@CompuServe.COM> from "Teed Rockwell" at Oct 2, 96 04:11:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xdaIQB.A.kTE.O_tUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/333 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:35:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 3d97dc23d514088b27a566fa09ab3bee > I would love to be proven wrong about this, but you should realise that I > tried talking myself into exactly that position for almost 20 years. I am not an > anti-transistor luddite who refused to even consider the possibility you > mention. In fact I use a digital reverb-delay as a supplement to the tube sound, > to get both digital brittleness and tube warmth. Part of it maybe that the > stick, not having a body, needs that extra tube tone. [snip] > Teed Rockwell Why not have both? That is, the full-range setup _and_ the tube tone? A number of well-known players have insisted that the tube amp sound requires not only preamp tubes but power tubes as well. So what if you want the full-range sound of modern effects/looping devices but still crave that tube warmth? As far as I am aware, there are two workable types of solutions: 1. Tube head as preamp. Plug the speaker out into something like a Holdsworth Harness, a device that converts the signal from teh speaker out to a line level signal. Now you can use this signal for processing. If you like, split the signal so that you have one "pure" signal path and another for processing. 2. Small tube amp as preamp. Mic it into your mixer then use your mixer's effect loop(s) for processing. Why a small amp? Basically it's just for better portability and being able to get the overdrive you want without damaging your hearing. Again, maybe you want to split the signal for parallel processing. This way you have 100% of the tube amp sound _and_ the full-range setup. Use the full-range setup to get the volume you need. If you're lucky enough to be gigging at a venue with a decent in-house PA, all you will need is your little amp/head and your effects setup. Again, just a thought. Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Thu Oct 03 01:59:49 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 2 15:49:37 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8a6i-0005fB-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:49:36 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v8a6i-0001VM-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:49:36 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8a6h-00056z-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:49:35 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:46:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610022246.PAA04507@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <9609301301.ZM769@wolf3.vlsc.rpi.edu> Subject: Re: A life of its own (was Re: Vortex Loops Using Deja Vu B) Resent-Message-ID: <"V0VJBC.A.3wE.9DvUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/334 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 15:49:35 -0700 X-UIDL: 81842f884848be512f3eae3d17de4442 "Louis Collier Hyams" writes: >ray, >have you used ebow in the past? Nope, that's why I'm askin'! From ???@??? Thu Oct 03 01:59:55 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 2 19:27:17 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8dVM-0000PH-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 19:27:16 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v8dVM-0005TC-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 19:27:16 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8dVM-0006WB-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 19:27:16 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 19:24:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610030224.TAA24191@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Plex Pricing Resent-Message-ID: <"BZgyrC.A.uFG.KQyUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/335 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 19:27:16 -0700 X-UIDL: 55c9ba8ee51b33777da12bb5e4495828 Matthias writes: > Collier Hyams wrote: >>>matthias and olivier. >>>tupkal is the achronym ... > >Ray helped: >>I think they were wondering about the "shoot my wad" idiom that you so >>skillfully employed. ;-) > >Yes, I did not feel like asking again, but continue curious to learn. I'll tell you that it's a phrase not often uttered in mixed company. From ???@??? Thu Oct 03 01:59:56 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 2 19:29:51 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8dXq-0000WL-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 19:29:50 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v8dXq-0005Uz-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 19:29:50 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8dXq-0006Z1-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 19:29:50 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 19:27:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610030227.TAA24335@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <961002201117_74164.3703_GHQ62-2@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Amplification Resent-Message-ID: <"XWB4SC.A.iIG.YTyUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/336 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 19:29:50 -0700 X-UIDL: 9629d1ece0dfae28395de626fc888d3c >P.S. attention all loopers: please sign your posts. I get no headings when I >receive them, and have no other way of identifying you. Sorry, but everyone else in the world does. Please learn how to configure your reader. From ???@??? Thu Oct 03 01:59:59 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 2 20:55:17 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8esW-0004BV-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 20:55:16 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v8esX-0006bD-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 20:55:17 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8esX-000788-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 20:55:17 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9610022354.ZM41998@marcus.its.rpi.edu> Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:54:02 -0400 In-Reply-To: Ray Peck "Re: Plex Pricing" (Oct 2, 7:28pm) References: <199610030224.TAA24191@pure.PureAtria.COM> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 07feb95) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Plex Pricing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"AslwoD.A.KpG.qjzUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/337 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 20:55:17 -0700 X-UIDL: 08fb889d9d8fc6ca1724446c1244e925 the phrase wasnot meant that way. up here (NYC) mixed company is not an expression commonly used. it simply meant that I don't have the money to blow on an incomplete(to my satisfaction) product. ie spend it all in a lump ray, I was attempting not to insult your intelligence by reasking if you had used an ebow... maybe it was a new defective model? it does happen collier From ???@??? Thu Oct 03 02:00:00 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 2 20:56:02 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8etF-0004Dz-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 20:56:01 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v8etG-0006be-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 20:56:02 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8etG-0007A0-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 20:56:02 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9610022355.ZM114803@marcus.its.rpi.edu> Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:55:02 -0400 In-Reply-To: Ray Peck "Re: Amplification" (Oct 2, 7:30pm) References: <199610030227.TAA24335@pure.PureAtria.COM> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 07feb95) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Amplification Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"9bGEMB.A.5rG.fkzUy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/338 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 20:56:02 -0700 X-UIDL: de82afd4013eadf6fff62a7cb473fc7c chill manrayogram From ???@??? Thu Oct 03 02:00:05 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 2 22:18:02 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8gAb-0007Qn-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:18:01 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v8gAb-0007eD-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:18:01 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8gAb-0007jc-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:18:01 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:21:01 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Amplification Resent-Message-ID: <"zC4qsB.A.SMH.Fx0Uy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/340 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:18:01 -0700 X-UIDL: a040f37c1683dd7d5d13fc4f93121c6d > I would love to be proven wrong about this, but you should realise >that I >tried talking myself into exactly that position for almost 20 years. I am >not an >anti-transistor luddite who refused to even consider the possibility you >mention. In fact I use a digital reverb-delay as a supplement to the tube >sound, >to get both digital brittleness and tube warmth. Part of it maybe that the >stick, not having a body, needs that extra tube tone. This is really interesting, since the stick is usually rather disconnected from this sound tradition, but... I would like to hear it. It will be nice when the net will be fast enough so we can attach sound files... >There may be something to your comment about my being connected to the >sixties. When I first played my stick through a fender twin, I realised that I >hadn't heard that sound since I gave up playing guitar 22 years ago, and that I >had not sounded that good since. (My original Fender twin was accidentally set >on fire by a Hendrix clone friend of mine who wrapped tin foil around the fuse >after it blew out) What a karma... > All of of these choices are highly individual, though. I'm not >trying to >convert anybody, just to add my voice to the multitude Sure, all is valid, and in the end all that counts is that you love your sound and can express what you want! Matthias From ???@??? Thu Oct 03 02:00:04 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 2 22:17:59 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8gAY-0007Qg-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:17:58 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v8gAY-0007e3-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:17:58 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8gAZ-0007jU-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:17:59 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:21:06 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: New/old toys! Resent-Message-ID: <"LYXOMD.A.PMH.Fx0Uy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/339 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:17:59 -0700 X-UIDL: 6e60c8ceb7a983705a866b7f7142dfc9 >Dave said: >>I went to a guitar show in eastern Iowa yesterday and horse-traded a >>couple of *great* pieces. :} First, I traded my old Boss Pitch >>Shifter/Delay (my first awful looping device), a fuzz box, and $15 for >>an ADA expression pedal, an ADA quad footswitch, and... a DeltaLabs >>Echotron. > >I've seen these in Black Market music in SF, but never tried it. Seems to >me a friend of mine actually knew something about it. If I remember who it >was, I'll ask him.... > >>The Echotron is just *gorgeous*. It's an early-80s long >>(250ms-4096ms) delay line, with infinite repeat capability. ... > >Sounds like a score! Mind if I lift your text and use it for a little blurb >on the web page? Some day we may manage to get a fairly complete history of >all these funky toys.... > >If you find any more info on it, let me know and I'll put that up there too. I think Andreas Vollenweider started his solo career with a drummer, two percussionists, his harp and a Deltalab for loops. That was in Montreux, probably around '82. From ???@??? Thu Oct 03 02:00:06 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 2 22:18:11 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8gAk-0007R4-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:18:10 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v8gAk-0007el-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:18:10 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8gAm-0007kL-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:18:12 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:21:15 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: archiving (was: Hello...) Resent-Message-ID: <"snlQiC.A.dNH.Wx0Uy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/341 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 22:18:12 -0700 X-UIDL: fa9a7c839a97aa2e7f305e2dccfa3f26 >I think the thing we need is some sort of FAQ. We could condense the >interesting discussions into key points and put them in neat categories. As >more interesting discussions occur we can add those. Agreed, but I would not call it so, because many of the contribution are not answers to questions but impulses. >At the same time, I'd still like to an archive of all the messages.There's >no reason we can't have both. Right. >...The server >will be automatically combining messages into a single file on a regular >basis. All I would have to do is put it in the proper directory for the web >page and put a link to it somewhere. How can anyone find something in 250 mails/month? Download it all? Anyway, its far better than nothing... Matthias From ???@??? Thu Oct 03 02:00:09 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 2 23:53:24 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8het-0002ex-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:53:23 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v8hes-0001BJ-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:53:22 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8hes-0000aa-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:53:22 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:51:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610030651.XAA05319@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <9610022354.ZM41998@marcus.its.rpi.edu> Subject: Re: Plex Pricing Resent-Message-ID: <"NP4LL.A.4f.kK2Uy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/343 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:53:22 -0700 X-UIDL: 73a379d50e2e2f9921251d1cb76f6079 "Louis Collier Hyams" writes: >the phrase wasnot meant that way. >up here (NYC) mixed company is not an expression commonly used. ;-) >it simply meant that I don't have the money to blow on an incomplete(to my >satisfaction) product. ie spend it all in a lump Yeah, I think we know what you meant. It was how you said it that was a touch risque. >ray, I was attempting not to insult your intelligence by reasking if you had >used an ebow... maybe it was a new defective model? it does happen Not taken that way. It works, I just don't seem to "have it down". From ???@??? Thu Oct 03 02:00:07 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 2 23:52:58 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8heT-0002eS-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:52:57 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v8heS-0001B3-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:52:56 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8heS-0000Ym-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:52:56 -0700 Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 01:51:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: archiving In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"uTwIC.A.Jf.WK2Uy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/342 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:52:56 -0700 X-UIDL: 49b8366c510ce768f53ea818eee558c2 Do you have reasonable CGI access at your ISP, Kim? If so, hypermail is a TERRIFIC way to archive mailing lists. It sorts by date or subject, at the user's request. We could just keep the entire archive at Looper's Delight. Speaking of which, is Kim or somebody keeping every post we receive? Finally... we should be able to include at least samples of various profesional artists' works at a web site under the fair use provisions of copyright law. Of course, it'd be nice to ask permission first, but in my experience, musicians are far nicer and friendlier than the record companies that own the actual rights. If I get the chance, I'll try to get some samples of my favorite artists digitized. This leads to another potential problem for Looper's Delight, though... disk space. How are the facilities, Kim? -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. -Charles Fort dstagner@icarus.net From ???@??? Thu Oct 03 02:00:10 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 2 23:53:55 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8hfO-0002gH-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:53:54 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v8hfN-0001Bc-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:53:53 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8hfO-0000cJ-00; Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:53:54 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:51:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610030651.XAA05337@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <9610022355.ZM114803@marcus.its.rpi.edu> Subject: Re: Amplification Resent-Message-ID: <"lsh-oC.A.8h.LL2Uy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/344 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 23:53:54 -0700 X-UIDL: c137612c65affb91fd43429b69cceee7 "Louis Collier Hyams" writes: >chill manrayogram Uh oh, what did I do now? Making enemies already? Usually that takes me quite a bit longer. From ???@??? Thu Oct 03 03:04:03 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 3 02:12:16 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8jpH-0005dS-00; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:12:15 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v8jpG-0002LQ-00; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:12:14 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8jpH-0001RX-00; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:12:15 -0700 Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:10:00 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: A general thank to everyone Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"THtL0C.A.7UB.CM4Uy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/345 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:12:15 -0700 X-UIDL: 81a20918eb39dac84ddb6600c91b0c43 I just wanted to tell you all that participate in my buying of the vortex (i.e: al the one talking about this machine, who told me it was not expensive in the U.S, or the one that sent all this Guitar Center addresses....) I got it for 2 days now (it's quite young) and i'm parfectly happy with the machine. I think it is innovative, intelligent, creative, and complex to master. So I can understand why it had no success among guitarists. The idea that you have to tap your tempo for your delay line, but not set it in a programm in ms is truly revolutionnary. a processus with an enveloppe follower for this price is revolutionnary too. Again, Thanks to everyone who helped. Olivier From ???@??? Thu Oct 03 03:04:05 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 3 02:45:52 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8kLn-000668-00; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:45:51 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v8kLj-0007HG-00; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:45:47 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8kLk-0001dw-00; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:45:48 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:41:07 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: archiving Resent-Message-ID: <"2aGYn.A.sgB.Yq4Uy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/346 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 02:45:48 -0700 X-UIDL: a8d39dc8215dfea1140d0e7be063d356 Dave says: >Do you have reasonable CGI access at your ISP, Kim? If so, hypermail >is a TERRIFIC way to archive mailing lists. It sorts by date or >subject, at the user's request. We could just keep the entire archive >at Looper's Delight. Yes, I think CGI is quite possible. I've never had the time to look into it, but I do have a cgi based hit-counter on my page and that seems to work. I'm quite certain that others at my service provider have much more sophisticated web sites than what I've got so far, so I don't think this sort of thing is a problem. I don't know anything about hypermail, or whether my ISP has it available. The list uses SmartList, which does do some stupid archiving. I think adding various cgi and/or java scripts to the page could be quite useful, especially for searching archives of past list postings. Do people think we really need real sophisticated search and sorting? Seems to me a basic search engine that can find a particular text string would be fine. Seems like this must be fairly easy to do in CGI. I'd also like something where people can subscribe to the list from the page without having to send mail seperately. Like I say, I'm rather ignorant about cgi, so if any of you can help me out with it, I'd appreciate it. >Speaking of which, is Kim or somebody keeping every post we receive? I've got them all, yes. >Finally... we should be able to include at least samples of various >profesional artists' works at a web site under the fair use provisions >of copyright law. Of course, it'd be nice to ask permission first, >but in my experience, musicians are far nicer and friendlier than the >record companies that own the actual rights. If I get the chance, >I'll try to get some samples of my favorite artists digitized. This >leads to another potential problem for Looper's Delight, >though... disk space. > >How are the facilities, Kim? The web site has 20MB of disk space now. We've got a ways to go before that gets filled. More disk space is available, just means more money. I pay for it now, but if it starts expanding hugely we'll have to start seeking donations or something. I guess we could always get Lexicon and Oberheim to advertise, that should cover a kilobyte or two... ;-) kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Oct 03 19:50:34 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 3 08:55:29 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8q7U-0006r2-00; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 08:55:28 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v8q7U-0003cm-00; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 08:55:28 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8q7U-0003e5-00; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 08:55:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199610031551.AA25776@internet-mail2.ford.com> From: "Steven R. Murrell" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Plex Pricing Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 11:48:43 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"U5O6h.A.lXD.9D-Uy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/347 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 08:55:28 -0700 X-UIDL: 10eb36f00e40a4bcb6adaf413fd81385 > Collier Hyams wrote: >>>matthias and olivier. >>>tupkal is the achronym ... > >Ray helped: >>I think they were wondering about the "shoot my wad" idiom that you so >>skillfully employed. ;-) > >Yes, I did not feel like asking again, but continue curious to learn. >>>I'll tell you that it's a phrase not often uttered in mixed company. I hate to take the edge off of this but the term "shoot your wad" or "I shot my wad" originally is referenced to the days when muzzle loaders (guns) used a "wad" of some type of cloth material to retain the charge of gunpowder and shot in their guns. Since it was a pain to reload, the shooter was generally very careful not to waste his "wad" on a poor shot or something not worth shooting (you get my meaning?). A friend of mine was almost fired from a college lecturing job because he used this term. A mutual friend, who is an avid gun enthusiast, came to his aid with the above information. Steve Murrell From ???@??? Thu Oct 03 19:50:37 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 3 09:12:52 1996 Received: from slip-3.slip.net [204.160.88.17] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8qOJ-0007f5-00; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 09:12:51 -0700 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by slip-3.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.55 #2) id E0v8qOJ-0003uT-00; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 09:12:51 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8qOJ-0003mN-00; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 09:12:51 -0700 Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 12:14:49 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) Message-Id: <199610031614.MAA03797@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: Wad shooting X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"IMyAJ.A.OgD.BW-Uy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/348 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 09:12:51 -0700 X-UIDL: aa38654c427ffff0bd8665d52929b98e >Steve Murrell wrote: >I hate to take the edge off of this but the term "shoot your wad" or "I >shot my wad" originally is referenced to the days when muzzle loaders >(guns) used a "wad" of some type of cloth material to retain the charge >of gunpowder and shot in their guns. Since it was a pain to reload, the >shooter was generally very careful not to waste his "wad" on a poor shot >or something not worth shooting (you get my meaning?). Aww, thats no fun. I prefer the more phallic allusion. I cant imagine us getting further off topic than this. Lets get back to looping...before my wad explodes :) Clark From ???@??? Thu Oct 03 19:52:04 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 3 19:23:07 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8zus-0004U0-00; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 19:23:06 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v8zus-0007UI-00; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 19:23:06 -0700 Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 22:18:52 -0400 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961003221851_117969942@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Memory upgrades Resent-Message-ID: <"ab1-XD.A.u_G.URHVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/349 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 19:23:06 -0700 X-UIDL: 635d4be9ad8c2cb024e6b0dd9fdcec5a Greetings loopsters, I have a technical question for the Oberheim-EDP savy among us. I have just taken delivery of a spankin' new pair of Obies and want to upgrade to the maximum amount of memory ASAP before I enshrine them in my rack. The mannual says it'll take either Mac or PC 30-pin SIMMs. Other "reliable" sources have told me that only Mac compatible SIMMS will do. Which is it? I have been looking around for the best prices on RAM. Some of the best deals I've found come from independent computer techs. These guys offer a dizzying array of stuff, and spout all sorts of unfamiliar terms like: parity or non-parity, mag+BP 4x3-6, 9 chip 4x9-7, etc, etc, etc. Being a Mac-only kind of guy (and usually buying only from the normal "MacMall" type catalogs) it's a new, and to be quite honest, kinda confusing area for me. To get the best price, I'm inclined to go with one of these guys (who happens to be a friend of a friend). But, I know that if I order wrong, it's unlikely that he'll let me return it (30-pin SIMMs are becoming passe I guess). Is there anybody out there who knows the EDP and is also SIMM savy enough to help me sort this out authoratively? Thanks loads Ted Killian From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 00:04:06 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 3 20:39:58 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v917F-0007QX-00; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 20:39:57 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v917G-00009B-00; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 20:39:58 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 20:36:53 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Memory upgrades Resent-Message-ID: <"NnPNT.A.cG.6aIVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/350 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 20:39:58 -0700 X-UIDL: 7c3081359c851c755ed5ca510052f0bb >Greetings loopsters, > >I have a technical question for the Oberheim-EDP savy among us. > >I have just taken delivery of a spankin' new pair of Obies and want to >upgrade to the maximum amount of memory ASAP before I enshrine them in my >rack. The mannual says it'll take either Mac or PC 30-pin SIMMs. Other >"reliable" sources have told me that only Mac compatible SIMMS will do. Which >is it? I think I can reliably answer this question..... Pretty much any 30 pin simm should work. mac/pc, parity/non-parity, 2 chips, 3 chips, 8 chips, 9 chips, whatever. I tested a lot of different simms and never had any problems. It just has to be either 256K, 1M, or 4M, and be faster than 120ns. I haven't seen anything slower than 80ns in a long time, so you shouldn't have to worry about that. oh, you have to install them in pairs too. 4meg simms are less than $30 these days, so you should be able to max out the memory on both your echoplexi for about $250. Has anybody ever had problems with simms they bought? There are so many sources and varieties that there could be some less than reliable types/manufacturers out there. The echoplex was designed to be fairly forgiving about this, so I would guess that problems are not too common. I never really heard any complaints about it anyway. >I have been looking around for the best prices on RAM. Some of the best deals >I've found come from independent computer techs. These guys offer a dizzying >array of stuff, and spout all sorts of unfamiliar terms like: parity or >non-parity, mag+BP 4x3-6, 9 chip 4x9-7, etc, etc, etc. You can also get used memory, which is even cheaper. Slightly risky I guess, but people usually don't do anything too dramatic to their computer memory. >Being a Mac-only kind of guy (and usually buying only from the normal >"MacMall" type catalogs) it's a new, and to be quite honest, kinda confusing >area for me. To get the best price, I'm inclined to go with one of these guys >(who happens to be a friend of a friend). But, I know that if I order wrong, >it's unlikely that he'll let me return it (30-pin SIMMs are becoming passe I >guess). Is there anybody out there who knows the EDP and is also SIMM savy >enough to help me sort this out authoratively? There are some places that charge more but offer much higher quality and reliability. Whatever is more important to you. I'd get the cheap stuff myself. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 00:04:21 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 4 01:23:52 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v95Xz-0002ms-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 01:23:51 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v95Xz-0001kU-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 01:23:51 -0700 Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 01:23:51 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth Reply-To: Dan Howarth To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Memory upgrades In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"v6YECD.A.hnB.alMVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/351 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 01:23:51 -0700 X-UIDL: c8424066859f06cd71a6dbdcdf063d27 **************************************************************** ** Dan Howarth, History/Music, Unversity of Arizona, Tucson. ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction) ** **************************************************************** On Thu, 3 Oct 1996, Kim Flint wrote: ....snip.... > 4meg simms are less than $30 these days, so you should be able to max out > the memory on both your echoplexi for about $250. > > ....snip.... well, well... i think the word we're looking for here is 'echoplicis' - from '-plex,-plicis'- it's a suffix usually formed from numeric words; more or less like saying '-fold' as in 'hundred-fold'. there's also 'plexus-a-um', the past participle of 'plecto, plectere' - to braid or plait... which one was the intended, kim? of course, (vor)vertex, verticis is latin for whirlpool, tornado/whirlwind, or also represents a direction of 'down from above/over head'. it comes from verto, vertere - to turn, to transform and, finally, iamnus persona - well, ok... maybe that's taking it too far. :) From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 00:04:47 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 4 09:05:47 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9Cl0-0006ZN-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 09:05:46 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9Cl0-0002G1-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 09:05:46 -0700 Message-Id: <199610041602.JAA02394@scv1.apple.com> Subject: Re: Memory upgrades Date: Fri, 4 Oct 96 09:06:58 -0000 x-sender: attix@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Tom Attix* To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"J4KOb.A.GFC.mTTVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/357 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 09:05:46 -0700 X-UIDL: 40e91f9dcce36b5d3602243d5358c60b >There are some places that charge more but offer much higher quality and >reliability. Whatever is more important to you. I'd get the cheap stuff >myself. I can personally recommend the Chip Merchants, I've done a fair amount of business with them. Their prices are low, they have a money-back policy and I've never heard of anyone getting defective product from them. They have a web site (www.thechipmerchants.com, I believe). Have fun plexing. -Tom Attix _______________________________________________ attix@apple.com _______________________________________________ "Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps". - Emo Phillips From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 00:04:59 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 4 10:39:06 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9EDH-0003LS-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 10:39:03 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9EDJ-0002sq-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 10:39:05 -0700 Message-Id: <199610041737.KAA08142@scv3.apple.com> Subject: Re: hyperprism Date: Fri, 4 Oct 96 10:42:10 -0000 x-sender: attix@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Tom Attix* To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"y00ZlC.A.CrC.ssUVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/359 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 10:39:05 -0700 X-UIDL: c6e721baad00c8c23f0176d9b82d6d32 >I just know that Hyperprism is a french (?) soft package that runs on PPCs >and contains all kinds of effects. >Are they programmable in a suficiantly free way, so we can use it as a >looper, the way we like it? >Would it make sense to propose them a few modifications to improve this side? > >Matthias I looked them up on the web, they're actually out of San Francisco. I inquired about the possibility of using Hyperprism for real time effects and without a sound card (AudioMedia, was the example, I think), it's not possible. Apparently, the Mac sound manager causes a 60ms delay between input and playback. With a card, it looks like it would make a really cool effector. -Tom Attix _______________________________________________ attix@apple.com _______________________________________________ "Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps". - Emo Phillips From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 00:04:29 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 4 05:58:54 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v99qA-00000E-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 05:58:54 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v99q9-00014g-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 05:58:53 -0700 Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:56:14 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Latin, and roots In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"JXdQ.A.39.9lQVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/352 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 05:58:53 -0700 X-UIDL: 0c4016dd139b24044e005ba845fa5367 AH! Sometimes, these "off-topic" subjects are just exhilarating! A little Latin lessons is always good and fun (well probabaly the only time it was any fun for me). By the way, I got an idea: I was listening to an old piece of music wich is " marche pour la ceremeonie des turcs" from Jean Baptiste Lully (it is a late XVIIth century composer who was the "maitre d'ouuvre" of all the french music under the reign of Louis XIV). This piece is a long orchestrated phrase that repeat itself, and grow in intensity, even though the player don't play really louder. That could be somekind of an ancestor to repetitive, or minimalistic music that lead to specific looping process we use quite daily. What do you al think starting a whole thing about the roots of looping? By the way I'm quite surprised noone talked about Michael Brook... He did numerous interesting things, and I saw him first as asupporting act for the Sylvian/Fripp tour where he played alone with loops..... Olivier From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 00:04:31 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 4 06:03:57 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v99v2-00007E-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 06:03:56 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v99v2-00018M-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 06:03:56 -0700 Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 09:00:59 -0400 From: "S. Patrick Hickey" Message-Id: <199610041300.JAA05062@nielsenmedia.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Latin, and roots Resent-Message-ID: <"0WvBKC.A.kCB.WrQVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/353 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 06:03:56 -0700 X-UIDL: c5d0fe703b00b5021ff1f571e6c7152f Yea, I saw Brooke play w/ S/F. He did a solo beforehand. I was very impressed by his performance. I was not impressed with S/F. Fripp was, at least that night, more a technician than a musician. I found Brook to be much more musical. Also, the mix was terrible. Might have sounded good to those at stage left with their beaucoup $$$ recording gear; but in the paying seats, it *bit*. Because of this experience, I have refrained from going to recent KC concerts. Pat Hickey ***SPH brzrkr@nielsenmedia.com From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 00:04:43 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 4 08:51:19 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9CX0-0005ly-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 08:51:18 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9CX1-00028B-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 08:51:19 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:52:23 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Observations from playing experience Resent-Message-ID: <"TUrkP.A.S6B.EHTVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/355 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 08:51:19 -0700 X-UIDL: f50c9b96d4f23cbddeed4616efb2d91d This mail by Teed Rockwell accidentally stayed unseen in my IN box. And nobody else answered it. But these nice observations deserves a note: >Other Random observations: > >Don't tread hard on the footswitch if you think that function isn't working >properly. You'll just break the footswitch in about six months. (I did >this with >the "Undo" button.) In switzerland they had to put heavy metall bang proof buttons for passengers trafic lights. Human mind fells that pressing harder makes the light get green sooner...;-) I understand why you hit Undo "desperately". Its really hard to "feel" what its doing. The problem is, that for +Undo+, there *is* a loop start point, even if we do not care because the loop is smoth. And for the machine it does matter if you press it right before or after this moment. I made a file that explaines it better, maybe we can include it in the update manual or in the page. >It seems to me that the Signal to Noise Ratio occasionally deteriorates if you >let the machine get too hot. This could just be an illusion created by the >noise >becoming harder to ignore once you notice it, but I don't think so. Could that be true? Never noticed. Kim? >The undo button is essentially useless without lots of extra memory, but >terrific once you've got the memory. If you've built up to a certain level of >layering, play lots of chords while steping on the undo button alot and >when the >chords die away you get you're starting loop back, ready to be build up. Yes I use it also for composing. I love to superpose 10 hot solo lines and when its really thick, I +Undo+ back to the modest inicial bass line. >Playing the same pattern over and over again with the overdub button on >>creates a sound like a really cool digital delay. >If you want to sound like an Ordinary delay unit, set the Feedback at about >twelve o'clock, and keep the Overdub button on. Right! Thats why I never use the Delay Mode. >I find it easier to work with the feedback knob than a feedback pedal. You can >position the knob in a variety of diffferent ways, and remember what those >positions sound like, which is not easy to do with a pedal. Also, There's >usually lots of time to reach over and tweak the knob once you get a good loop >going. Yeah, but a quick "tweak" leaves a "step" in the loop afterwards. It should be possible to get used to a feedback pedal. I use a P+G fader, operated by foot. Its position is well defined and visible and I can operate it really slow while playing. (And it brings me some fame as the one that plays bare foot ;-) ) >The speed at which you move the feedback knob will effect the sound that >>occcurs in the loop afterwards, but I'm not sure exactly how. Any Info on >that >from anyone? Just imagine that you are *mixing* the sound you hear from the running loop with the one you are playing into the new loop you will hear next time around, beeing that the feedback knob is the volume for the running loop. So a quick move of the feedback will come back as quick fade from then on. Is that understandable? I find it very hard to explain those things. >One fun structure to work with. Create a loop, solo on it for a while until you >hear some thing you like, then turn on overdub and store it. Then solo >some more >until you create something else you like, then store that. When it get too >full, >you can either 1) push the undo button several times until you get it down to >size again (which removes the most recent loops.) Or 2) drop the feed back >level >(which fades out the earliest loops or 3) create a new loop and then jump back >and forth between the two. Thats it! Some people do not understand this after a year and several demonstrations of mine! (do I confuse them or dont they have the necessary neurone connections ready?) :-( >That's all I can think of for awhile. Happy looping Hoopy lapping Matthias From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 00:04:40 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 4 08:50:02 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9CVl-0005ir-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 08:50:01 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9CVk-000261-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 08:50:00 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:52:37 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: archiving Resent-Message-ID: <"YNvbTC.A.05B.3GTVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/354 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 08:50:00 -0700 X-UIDL: 72f3a6bf673ff90572eb95d34ba41614 Kim asked: >Do people think we >really need real sophisticated search and sorting? Seems to me a basic >search engine that can find a particular text string would be fine. I guess so. > >>Speaking of which, is Kim or somebody keeping every post we receive? > >I've got them all, yes. Me too. I did some work yesterday. Within 3 hours I compiled the following files: Ways and philosophies (is it an instrument?) FeedBack keeps the loop alive Rhythmical creativity using several loopers allways new experiences looper in the 'puter There are still more to create like: Vortex Amplification Works and CDs published bugs and wishes prices and vendors (maybe useless due to quick changes) wad shooting :) I guess I send the files to Kim to see whether he wants to put them on the page. For immdiate use, I offer to send them to anyone who comes new to the list or are interested in creating such files or improving mine. I hope we manage to valorize our contributions more this way and serve the ones that are coming after. Matthias From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 00:04:42 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 4 08:51:11 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9CWs-0005ln-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 08:51:10 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9CWt-000282-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 08:51:11 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 12:52:47 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Idiom Resent-Message-ID: <"bjz7rD.A.76B.YHTVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/356 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 08:51:11 -0700 X-UIDL: cf62124fd1bcf7dd4447cf5880226ac1 Thanks to Bryan, Steve and Clark for their kind explanations I see, I cannot ask you english speakers to cut down your poetic creativity, only because of some not so able readers. So lets close down that (very off topic) trip. Matthias From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 00:04:56 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 4 09:44:57 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9DMt-0000cP-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 09:44:55 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9DMt-0002Vy-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 09:44:55 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 13:43:20 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: hyperprism Resent-Message-ID: <"5soTb.A.zUC.F6TVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/358 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 09:44:55 -0700 X-UIDL: db197f197bf3ce68bd377c921a6f1111 >>I've been toying with the idea of setting up a mac IIci with >hyperprism to >do >>looping and midi controlled spacial effects. I might put a >samplecell card >in >>it also. anyone done this? > >- Torn has. The results (in his hands, anyway) are all over his latest; "What >Means Solid, Traveler?" >we also used this technique a bit on my record... it's fun and the results >can be utterly unworldly. >have fun! >Robby Aceto I just know that Hyperprism is a french (?) soft package that runs on PPCs and contains all kinds of effects. Are they programmable in a suficiantly free way, so we can use it as a looper, the way we like it? Would it make sense to propose them a few modifications to improve this side? Matthias From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 00:05:02 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 4 11:32:54 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9F3N-0005xf-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 11:32:53 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9F3M-0003EQ-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 11:32:52 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 10:52:08 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: hyperprism Resent-Message-ID: <"SVZzWC.A.DAD.IfVVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/360 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 11:32:52 -0700 X-UIDL: f39251eaa53250b22a09139d0d3d9006 >>>I've been toying with the idea of setting up a mac IIci with >hyperprism to >>do >>>looping and midi controlled spacial effects. I might put a >samplecell card >>in >>>it also. anyone done this? >> >>- Torn has. The results (in his hands, anyway) are all over his latest; "What >>Means Solid, Traveler?" >>we also used this technique a bit on my record... it's fun and the results >>can be utterly unworldly. >>have fun! >>Robby Aceto > >I just know that Hyperprism is a french (?) soft package that runs on PPCs >and contains all kinds of effects. >Are they programmable in a suficiantly free way, so we can use it as a >looper, the way we like it? >Would it make sense to propose them a few modifications to improve this side? > I don't think it's french, ARboretum's address is in San Francisco. There are several different versions, a 68000 version that runs as a stand alone on mac's with Digidesign audio boards, a TDM version is a plug-in for Digidesign's Pro-Tools system, and a PPC version that runs on Powermacs with no additional hardware. I've only used the PPC version, and I really like it a lot, though I would think it works better as a post-recording processor than as a live instrument. I think it's the coolest piece of audio-sickening software since TurboSynth, and that is high praise. Basically, it offers a fairly standard set of effects (Delays, pitch and time shifting, reverb, ring modulation, etc) with a very non-standard interface, a blue window on the computer screen with different parameters of the x and y axis. For example, in the pitch and time changer, pitch is on the y axis, and playback speed is on the x axis. By drawing lines in the window, you set the parameters, and these paths can be saved, though not edited. in the 68000 and TDM versions, the parameters can also be controlled by external MIDI controllers, but that is not available on the PPC version, and I doubt that it will be since the PPC version costs about 1/2 the 68000 price, and 1/3 the TDM price. There's a demo at www.arboretum.com, which sold me on the software, and the PPC version is $279, which is pretty cheap for such a cool tool. And I'm not affiliated Arboretum in any way, if this sounds too much like a sales plug. BTW, hyperprism was named after an Edgar Varese piece, which should give you an idea of where the designers are at philosophically. BTW2: I'm new to this list, and loving it. I'm a bassist and looper from way back, and currently I'm using a JamMan and lxp-5 for live looping, and a PPC/Deck/Audiomedia2 setup for serious mangling. later, dt From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 00:05:05 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 4 13:07:58 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0v9GXM-0000PU-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 13:07:56 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9GXL-0003rV-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 13:07:55 -0700 Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 16:05:15 -0400 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961004160514_325181353@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Re: Memory upgrades Resent-Message-ID: <"leJ29.A.HmD.84WVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/361 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 13:07:55 -0700 X-UIDL: 33787ef031b36f65866cfc8cfa06aeb6 Kim Thank you very much for the info about RAM. I feel confident that I'll be off and running soon now that I know more about what to get. If I can ever return the favor let me know. In case you don't remember, we met a few NAMMs ago (and I've emailed you previously about EDP issues). I work for a certain guitar pickup company out in Santa Barbara, California. Anyway, thanks again! Ted Killian From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 00:05:24 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 4 14:20:48 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0v9Hfq-0004Uf-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:20:46 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9Hfp-0004K1-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:20:45 -0700 Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 17:24:07 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) Message-Id: <199610042124.RAA04452@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Amplifiers X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"xKs_a.A.jBE.Z9XVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/362 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 14:20:45 -0700 X-UIDL: c031469be3b9306dbba4fc15b3943f5a I was just thinking (i know, its a bad habit) since what is being reccommended here for looping is a full range amp system with a flat response how about a keyboard amp? This way you could make loops with guitar and bass (or even keyboard, heaven forbid). There are plenty of mono kbd amps out there but i dont like the prospect of having to use (read: lug around) two amps. For this reason a stereo amp is key. Does anyone make a stereo keyboard combo with at least 10" cones? Clark From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 00:05:29 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 4 16:19:45 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0v9JWy-0002xx-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 16:19:44 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9JWz-0005Ab-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 16:19:45 -0700 Message-Id: <9610042325.AA42587@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com> X-Sender: cavaleri@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 15:20:03 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Joe Cavaleri Subject: Re: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other points Resent-Message-ID: <"-16uV.A.kxE.VtZVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/365 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 16:19:45 -0700 X-UIDL: fa0326e14277be31a1a5d7fd465ae155 At 02:28 PM 9/29/96 -0700, you wrote: >Hello again loopists: > > >*LOOPERS DELIGHT PROFILE FORM* > >(Fill in the information below and return it to altruist@shoko.calarts.edu >for inclusion on the Looper's Delight Web Site.) > >NAME Joe Cavaleri >AGE 44 >ADDRESS Simi Valley California Republic >PHONE (805) 526-7141 >E-MAIL cavaleri@simi-valley.ate.slb.com >URL N/A > >PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR Guitar,Volume Pedal,JamMan,Vortex,Quadraverb,Mixer. >INFLUENCES 1960's AM Radio - This ranges from early rock & roll through motown ect., Im's sure, on at least a subliminal level, TV and movie music such as Carl Stalling,Bernard Herman, and many others. The minimalist movment - Steve Riech, Phillip Glass,ect. Guitar specific: The music of the Doors, King Crimson-Robert Frip, Alan Holdsworth, Bill Frisell,and of course Mr. Torn. Many others!! >MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION Hard to tell. Ambient? Experimental? -- No Age? >ENSEMBLES None at this time >AVAILABLE RECORDINGS None commercially available >CONTACT INFORMATION Same as above >PERSONAL STATEMENT Hi all. First off I would like to thank all the people involved in giving this segment of the musical community the opportunity to participate in such a project. It should be a very interesting experience. I have been playing guitar for a little over 20yrs. I kind of started late but what the heck! In that time I've had the good fortune to play in several different styles of music. Everything from a wedding type band, a college jazz band, to playing with a Polynesian band.(complete with coconut klad From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 00:05:34 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 4 16:48:14 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0v9JyW-0004HS-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 16:48:12 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9JyX-0005UH-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 16:48:13 -0700 Message-Id: <9610042353.AA42668@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com> X-Sender: cavaleri@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 15:48:27 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Joe Cavaleri Subject: Re: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other points Resent-Message-ID: <"CKSerC.A.6HF.8HaVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/366 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 16:48:13 -0700 X-UIDL: e5a53ad95fd5576e5ee4fc28ddefe12e At 02:28 PM 9/29/96 -0700, you wrote: >Hello again loopists: Andre sorry about the multiple profoles - I'll get this right yet. > > >*LOOPERS DELIGHT PROFILE FORM* > >(Fill in the information below and return it to altruist@shoko.calarts.edu >for inclusion on the Looper's Delight Web Site.) > >NAME Joe Cavaleri >AGE 44 >ADDRESS Simi Valley California Republic >PHONE (805) 526-7141 >E-MAIL cavaleri@simi-valley.ate.slb.com >URL N/A > >PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR Guitar,Volume Pedal,JamMan,Vortex,Quadraverb,Mixer. >INFLUENCES 1960's AM Radio - This ranges from early rock & roll through motown ect., Im's sure, on at least a subliminal level, TV and movie music such as Carl Stalling,Bernard Herman, and many others. The minimalist movment - Steve Riech, Phillip Glass,ect. Guitar specific: The music of the Doors, King Crimson-Robert Frip, Alan Holdsworth, Bill Frisell,and of course Mr. Torn. Many others!! >MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION Hard to tell. Ambient? Experimental? -- No Age? >ENSEMBLES None at this time >AVAILABLE RECORDINGS None commercially available >CONTACT INFORMATION Same as above >PERSONAL STATEMENT Hi all. First off I would like to thank all the people involved in giving this segment of the musical community the opportunity to participate in such a project. It should be a very interesting experience. I have been playing guitar for a little over 20yrs. I kind of started late but what the heck! In that time I've had the good fortune to play in several different styles of music. Everything from a wedding type band, a college jazz band, to playing with a Polynesian band.(complete with coconut clad dancers!!) I am also attempting to become more politically aware. As Daniel Webster said. Good intentions will be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say the the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 00:05:27 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 4 15:55:13 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0v9J9C-0001pD-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 15:55:10 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9J9D-0004tz-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 15:55:11 -0700 From: pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu (Paolo Valladolid) Message-Id: <199610042249.PAA02372@waynesworld.ucsd.edu.> Subject: Re: Latin, and roots To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 15:49:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <199610041300.JAA05062@nielsenmedia.com> from "S. Patrick Hickey" at Oct 4, 96 09:00:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"0JlgVD.A.ekE.DWZVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/363 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 15:55:11 -0700 X-UIDL: 08f1b54f99eced37843a2dc4a1637dcf > Yea, I saw Brooke play w/ S/F. He did a solo beforehand. I was very > impressed by his performance. I was not impressed with S/F. Fripp > was, at least that night, more a technician than a musician. I found > Brook to be much more musical. Also, the mix was terrible. Might have > sounded good to those at stage left with their beaucoup $$$ recording > gear; but in the paying seats, it *bit*. > > Because of this experience, I have refrained from going to recent KC concerts. That's too bad because you missed out on the talents of Adrian Belew, Trey Gunn, et. al. I've heard them do some interesting group improv together, somethings incorporating looping devices into the process ("No Warning", "Industry", "When You Stop Continue (well, something like that)", etc.). At the very least, the formally-untrained-yet-creative Belew provides an interesing contrast. Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 00:05:28 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 4 15:57:48 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0v9JBk-0001vi-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 15:57:48 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9JBk-0004wn-00; Fri, 4 Oct 1996 15:57:48 -0700 Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 15:54:25 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: BIOS: Last minute info! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"GqqFl.A.fnE.5YZVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/364 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 15:57:48 -0700 X-UIDL: 46f8eea109148f536d375077776b06c9 Folks -- The master list is nearly assembled. I will probably transmit the completed list to Kim (and to this list) at some point tomorrow afternoon. There is still time to get a bio in if you haven't already done so. These are the last names of people who have entries in the list: helm, matthias, rockwell, henry, mccabe, rosser, hickey, michael, stafford, chovit, howarth, morriss, stafford, hyams, murrell, stagner, killian, orton,lafosse, madson, peters, durant, poplawski, flint, malhomme, poppen. If you sent a bio but don't see your name here, please send me a duplicate of the info and feel free to dock me a week's pay. It'll be here soon, folks. Thanks again. --Andre From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 16:10:31 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 5 03:22:34 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0v9TsP-0005g9-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 03:22:33 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9TsO-0002Rv-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 03:22:32 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 03:18:24 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Re: Memory upgrades Resent-Message-ID: <"PyA3EB.A.GIC.ZZjVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/367 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 03:22:33 -0700 X-UIDL: 1f01ef7fb2c16f31009eeb47c9259de4 >Kim > >Thank you very much for the info about RAM. I feel confident that I'll be off >and running soon now that I know more about what to get. > >If I can ever return the favor let me know. Do I hear the sound of custom wound pickups in the air? Just kidding :-) >In case you don't remember, we met a few NAMMs ago (and I've emailed you >previously about EDP issues). I work for a certain guitar pickup company out >in Santa Barbara, California. > >Anyway, thanks again! > >Ted Killian Yep, I recall. I'm always a bit amazed at just how many people I manage to remember from those shows. I usually spent those days in some combination of sensory-overload/hangover/general-trade-show-stupor. I'll probably get down to good old anaheim this year. I know its a bit early, but is anyone else planning to do NAMM? Maybe we can plan some kind of mini looper gathering. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 16:10:33 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 5 03:22:35 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0v9TsQ-0005gF-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 03:22:34 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9TsP-0002S4-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 03:22:33 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 03:18:27 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: hyperprism Resent-Message-ID: <"3IG1r.A.cIC.dZjVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/368 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 03:22:33 -0700 X-UIDL: 1fe94de0015878eda5c344f3e9a1cb46 Dave Trenkel wrote: >There's a demo at www.arboretum.com, which sold me on the software, and the >PPC version is $279, which is pretty cheap for such a cool tool. And I'm >not affiliated Arboretum in any way, if this sounds too much like a sales >plug. > >BTW, hyperprism was named after an Edgar Varese piece, which should give >you an idea of where the designers are at philosophically. > >BTW2: I'm new to this list, and loving it. I'm a bassist and looper from >way back, and currently I'm using a JamMan and lxp-5 for live looping, and >a PPC/Deck/Audiomedia2 setup for serious mangling. > >later, >dt I'm really interested in doing more computer/studio based loop music, but I must confess I don't really know much about the best ways to get started. For the past few years I've been increasingly listening to various flavors of techno/house/dance, urban hip-hop/rap, dub, industrial, etc., and I really want to get my hands into it and do it myself. What can you folks recommend as a good, reasonably affordable set up? I've got a powermac, studio vision, and max. What else might I need? I guess some other questions that come to mind are, should I consider getting a sampler? If so are there good older ones I might find used? I'd like to be able to use loops I make on the mac in a live setting so I can create echoplex loops along with them. What's the best way to do this? All the sound cd-roms seem to have such a wealth of great stuff on them. Is it easy to use loops and samples from these things in the computer? anyway, I've been enjoying the hyperprism discussion and would like to hear more about ways people use their computers for looping. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 16:10:34 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 5 03:22:43 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0v9TsY-0005gP-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 03:22:42 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9TsX-0002Si-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 03:22:41 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 03:18:29 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: archiving Resent-Message-ID: <"aj5vy.A.DJC.iZjVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/369 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 03:22:41 -0700 X-UIDL: 73a424d9885bfb8cce2d02f73d3fea16 Matthias says: >I did some work yesterday. Within 3 hours I compiled the following files: > >Ways and philosophies (is it an instrument?) >FeedBack keeps the loop alive >Rhythmical creativity >using several loopers >allways new experiences >looper in the 'puter > Thanks Matthias, this is great! I'll try to get the stuff up on the web this weekend. Anybody else want to help Matthias compile/maintain stuff? Having a human filter it all makes it quite a nice read actually! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 16:10:35 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 5 03:22:44 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0v9TsZ-0005gR-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 03:22:43 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9TsW-0002Sd-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 03:22:40 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 03:18:32 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Latin, and roots Resent-Message-ID: <"efiXzB.A.XJC.mZjVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/370 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 03:22:40 -0700 X-UIDL: 9aec73f8c2ecda691984717ddf0c38ff >AH! Sometimes, these "off-topic" subjects are just exhilarating! >A little Latin lessons is always good and fun (well probabaly the only >time it was any fun for me). Well, thanks to Dan, we now have the correct plural forms of a few looping favorites! So from now on, I want you all to use: Echoplex/Echoplecis Vortex/Vortices (did I get that right this time?) >By the way, I got an idea: I was listening to an old piece of music wich >is " marche pour la ceremeonie des turcs" from Jean Baptiste Lully (it is >a late XVIIth century composer who was the "maitre d'ouuvre" of all the >french music under the reign of Louis XIV). This piece is a long >orchestrated phrase that repeat itself, and grow in intensity, even though >the player don't play really louder. That could be somekind of an ancestor >to repetitive, or minimalistic music that lead to specific looping process >we use quite daily. What do you al think starting a whole thing about the >roots of looping? > Repeated phrases, with rising and falling intensity, have been a part of music for a long, long time I think. Its in music from all over the world, in all different cultures. If anything, a bit less in European Classical music, but its certainly present there too. I may even hazzard that this sort of repetition is an important part of making something "musical." I know I often find myself losing interest in music that keeps going on to something new with out ever repeating anything, while music that does repeat on various levels keeps me involved. Seems to happen in experimental/academic music where the composer is trying to explore some new idea while apparently forgetting some of the old ones. (oddly enough, I enjoy creating music like that; I should heed my own advice I think!) Technology gives us new instruments that make repetition easier. It also lets us approach this concept in new ways that were never there before. This is what the various looping tools we discuss are all about, and what the attraction is. I think the question still remains from a few weeks ago. How did the technology driven approach get started? Who were the first ones to make tape loops? It seems there were quite a few people doing this by the mid to late sixties, but where did they get it from? I've heard that the first tape delays were done in radio stations, but I don't know who or when. And who were the early ones applying it to music? For that matter, did it really start with tape? Was there anything before that? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 16:10:39 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 5 08:16:53 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0v9YTF-0001kH-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 08:16:53 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9YTF-0000NM-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 08:16:53 -0700 From: Jon Morris Message-Id: <199610051515.KAA16639@beacon.moontower.com> Subject: Re: Latin, and roots To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 10:15:41 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "Kim Flint" at Oct 5, 96 03:18:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ktalAD.A.tU.nunVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/371 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 08:16:53 -0700 X-UIDL: bfecbfa6cb97c074d44a92524148322d > > I think the question still remains from a few weeks ago. How did the > technology driven approach get started? Who were the first ones to make > tape loops? It seems there were quite a few people doing this by the mid to > late sixties, but where did they get it from? I've heard that the first > tape delays were done in radio stations, but I don't know who or when. And > who were the early ones applying it to music? For that matter, did it > really start with tape? Was there anything before that? I beleive that before tape looping, there were some radio engineers who would scratch records to make them skip on purpose, thus creating loops, and musique concrete was born. Also, they used the wind-off groove at the end of a record side to repeat things indefinitely. I'm no expert regarding this kind of stuff, but I bet that if you search for info on Musique Concrete, you'll find some names of the first people to compose with these kinds of materials. -Jon From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 16:10:40 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 5 09:09:26 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0v9ZI5-0002r7-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 09:09:25 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9ZI5-0000ff-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 09:09:25 -0700 Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 12:07:34 -0400 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961005120733_537226073@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: NAMM Resent-Message-ID: <"prLZn.A.im.HgoVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/372 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 09:09:25 -0700 X-UIDL: 6cc810209fc9e47450eb21730f9f5189 Kim wrote: > I know its a bit early, but is anyone else planning to do > NAMM? Maybe we can plan some kind of mini looper gathering. Well, being the "art" guy that designs all of the graphics for my employer (and anything else of a visual nature, including the NAMM booth), you can pretty safely bet that I'll be there for at least 2 or 3 days (before and durring the show). I'd be certainly up for any gathering of loopmeisters that develops. And... > Do I hear the sound of custom wound pickups in the air? > Just kidding :-) No need to "kid" necessarily. I can't promise anything at the moment. But, if you have PU needs lets talk about them (probably in another forum would be better though), and we'll see what can be done. See you at NAMM. Ted From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 16:10:43 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 5 10:13:27 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0v9aI2-0004Ot-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 10:13:26 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9aI3-000137-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 10:13:27 -0700 Message-ID: <325696EC.2479@easyway.net> Date: Sat, 05 Oct 1996 13:12:12 -0400 From: Jonathan Brainin Organization: easyway.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Latin, and roots References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"-XRyXC.A.V8.IcpVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/374 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 10:13:27 -0700 X-UIDL: a1567113b33fdc8521a7565f3696ea1b Kim Flint wrote: > > >AH! Sometimes, these "off-topic" subjects are just exhilarating! > >A little Latin lessons is always good and fun (well probabaly the only > >time it was any fun for me). > > Well, thanks to Dan, we now have the correct plural forms of a few looping > favorites! So from now on, I want you all to use: > > Echoplex/Echoplecis > Vortex/Vortices OK, but what DO you call a pair of JamMam? JamMen??? Jonathan From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 16:10:41 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 5 10:13:20 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0v9aHv-0004Oc-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 10:13:19 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9aHw-00012l-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 10:13:20 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 13:15:44 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other points Resent-Message-ID: <"AxrY.A.X7.lbpVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/373 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 10:13:20 -0700 X-UIDL: 99905453370a2824afcaed91e608df9a hey Joe ... how do you like the Vortex ... I've been using the Jamman with an lxp15 and was wondering of the added dimensions of the Vortex From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 16:10:56 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 5 14:24:54 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0v9eDN-00036M-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 14:24:53 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9eDO-0002Ko-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 14:24:54 -0700 Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 14:19:16 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: You asked for it... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-1677489048-1231659079-844550356=:28472" Resent-Message-ID: <"dlV7WB.A.CKC.oFtVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/375 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 14:24:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 79081637a7e867f8f4275273827d2507 ...here comes the big one! Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; name=masterlist1 Content-ID: Content-Description: WORLD-WIDE INDEX OF LOOP ARTISTS Version 1.0 Edited and assembled by Andre LaFosse from submissions on the Looper's Delight Internet Mailing List Oct. 28 through October 4, 1996 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- This index was assembled on a volunteer basis for a number of reasons: To provide some information regarding who was using looping, where it was being done, what gear was being used in the process, and what sorts of music it was utilized for; and hopefully, to allow the handful of loopists in the world to better communicate with one another about their craft. (With regards to this last endeavor, contact information in the index has generally only been provided when it is different from the preliminary address and e-mail data). Thanks are due to Kim Flint for instigating the Looper's Delight web site and mailing list (and for translating this list into HTML format). Also due thanks are the members of the StickWire web page, whose efforts at facilitating communication between fringe musicians helped to provide the inspiration for this list. Finally, thanks to the musicians profiled below who were willing to share some insights into themselves and their art. --Andre LaFosse ------------------------------------------------------------------------- NAME Jonathan Brainin AGE 35 ADDRESS 281 Forest Rd, South Orange, NJ PHONE 201/761-0905 E-MAIL jbrainin@interactive.net (primary) or jbrainin@easyway.net URL none as of yet PRIMARY INSTRUMENT: Parker Fly guitar, 12 string Warr Guitar PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: 2 Jamman (expanded to 32 seconds), Eventide GTR 4000 (10 seconds mono, 5 seconds stereo), Cakewalk Pro 5.0 with Audiomedia III soundcard and 3.1 gig hard drive (REALLY long loops) INFLUENCES: Fripp, Sylvian, Torn, Brooks, CRI record label, Eno (both B. and R.), Trey Gunn, Esquivel, Muddy Waters MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: Obscure rock, ambient, experimental, blues, and perhaps eventually Free ambient blues. ENSEMBLES: None at present AVAILABLE RECORDINGS: Writing material now, hope to start recording by January, 1997. PERSONAL STATEMENT: I've been a guitarist for over twenty years, but have only begun to loop within the last year or so. My looping style is beginning to emerge but varies wildly by the moment and by my mood. I don't think I've broken any new ground yet but I have managed, inadvertently, to replicate to sounds and styles of several of those listed as influences above. I'm looking for people to collaborate or just improvise with. ---------------------- NAME Joe Cavaleri AGE 44 ADDRESS Simi Valley, California Republic PHONE (805) 526-7141 E-MAIL cavaleri@simi-valley.ate.slb.com URL N/A PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR Guitar,Volume Pedal,JamMan,Vortex,Quadraverb,Mixer. INFLUENCES 1960's AM Radio - This ranges from early rock & roll through motown ect., Im's sure, on at least a subliminal level, TV and movie music such as Carl Stalling,Bernard Herman, and many others. The minimalist movment - Steve Riech, Phillip Glass,ect. Guitar specific: The music of the Doors, King Crimson-Robert Frip, Alan Holdsworth, Bill Frisell,and of course Mr. Torn. Many others!! MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION Hard to tell. Ambient? Experimental? -- No Age? ENSEMBLES None at this time AVAILABLE RECORDINGS None commercially available PERSONAL STATEMENT Hi all. First off I would like to thank all the people involved in giving this segment of the musical community the opportunity to participate in such a project. It should be a very interesting experience. I have been playing guitar for a little over 20yrs. I kind of started late but what the heck! In that time I've had the good fortune to play in several different styles of music. Everything from a wedding type band, a college jazz band, to playing with a Polynesian band.(complete with coconut clad dancers!!) I am also attempting to become more politically aware. As Daniel Webster said. Good intentions will be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say the the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. ------------------ NAME: Chris Chovit AGE: 27 ADDRESS: 1771 Arteique Rd., Topanga, CA 90290 PHONE: (310) 455-0987 E-MAIL: cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov URL: N/A PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR (or methodology for non-electronic loopists): Lexicon Jam Man, Oberheim Echoplex, MIDI sequencing INFLUENCES: funk (JB's, p-funk, other early 70's); reggae (marley, a. pablo & other dub); jazz (j. smith, m. davis, "soul" jazz, some 70's fusion); rock (floyd, crimson, who, hendrix, zappa, led zep, p. gabriel, d. sylvian, etc.); ambient / minimal (s. reich, t. reiley, eno, environments); electronic (70's electronic, some modern techno-ambient); misc. (N. Indian classical, african/blues) MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: Main instrument: guitar (esp. electric) Secondary instruments: electric bass, piano, organ, clav, synths, tabla, drum programming ENSEMBLES: I have been involved in various "garage" bands and experimental recording efforts. I am currently practicing with a funk/fusion drummer and a multi-instrumentalist with similar influences. PERSONAL STATEMENT: I am interested in working (alone and/or with others) to create music, being a fusion of my/our influences, in a recording and/or performance format, and to develop and optimize the instruments and tools for doing this. I am always interested in talking shop, and meeting new people with similar interests -- (If you live in the LA area -- give me a call or drop an e-note!) I just moved and am currently in the process of setting up a new studio space. Related interests include: live-sound reinforcement, recording/engineering/performance ideas & techniques, IDL & Opcode MAX programming, WWW as a medium for real-time mulitmedia broadcast, multichannel audio formats, electric guitars and related amps/effects, learning how to use time wisely. ---------------- NAME: Jon Durant AGE: 32 ADDRESS: Alchemy Records, 61 Surrey Dr. Cohasset, MA 02025 PHONE: 617-383-0086 E-MAIL: 74074.1316@compuserve.com URL:http://www.musicpro.com/alchemy/ PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: Lexicon JamMan (2), Vortex, LXP-15II INFLUENCES: Torn, Fripp, Rypdal, Garbarek, Weber MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: ambient/jazz/rock crossover AVAILABLE RECORDINGS: Three If By Air (Alchemy Records), new CD due in February. PERSONAL STATEMENT Making music such as this is an intensely personal experience. I find that my music is very anti-social: it is best absorbed individually, in a quiet environment. The music is designed to be open to one's personal interpretation, where one person may see beauty, another may be horrified. One listener may picture a quiet walk along a beach in late October, while another may envision a trek across a scorching desert. Both visions are correct. ------------------------- NAME: Kim Flint AGE: 26 ADDRESS: PO Box 40240, Berkeley, CA 94704 E-MAIL: kflint@annihilist.com URL: http://www.annihilist.com/ PRIMARY INSTRUMENT: guitar PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: Echoplex digital pro's Klein custom guitar, Fernandes Sustainer Guitar, the Trusty Old Aria Pro II E-Bow, assorted pedals Mesa Boogie Triaxis Rocktron Intellifex Mesa Boogie Simulclass 2:90 drum machines, sequencers, hopefully more soundsources soon INFLUENCES: (in chronological order) John Denver, The Beatles, AC/DC, Iron Maiden, Metallica, Exodus, Rush, Steve Vai, Al DiMeola, Queensryche, Michael Hedges, John McLaughlin, Tuck Andress, The Beatles again, The Doors, Hank Garland, Jane's Addiction, Miles Davis, Thelonius Monk, John Coltrane, Sonic Youth, George Clinton, Bootsy Collins, Parliament-Funkadelic, Primus, Voivod, The Limbomaniacs, Louis Armstrong, Jelly Roll Morton, Fats Waller, Coleman Hawkins, Frank Zappa, Prince, Public Enemy, Ministry, Skinny Puppy, Ornette Coleman, Don Cherry, Bill Laswell, Tom Waits, Music of the Ewe people in West Africa, C.K Ladzekpo, Ravi Shankar/Indian classical music, Mr. Bungle, Pharoh Sanders, Buckethead, Trent Reznor, Terry Date (production for Pantera, White Zombie), The Orb, Future Sound of London, David Torn, Underworld, Dr. Dre MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: heavy-industrial-ambient-jazz-experimental-techno-improv ENSEMBLES: none currently AVAILABLE RECORDINGS: none PERSONAL STATEMENT: I started playing guitar when I was seven because I liked John Denver and wanted to play his songs. Things generally went downhill from there. As an adolescent, the powers that be decided I was too good at science and mathematics to waste my life as a musician; I was to have a Career as a Scientist or Engineer or Doctor or some such Professional, and music was to be a Hobby. So despite my obvious interest in music, I was tracked into engineering. I ultimately overcame boredom, despair, hatred-of-everything, etc. and earned a degree in Electronics Engineering from UC Berkeley. Nevertheless, I managed to add a strong jazz foundation to my rock and fusion vocabulary, and began moving into much more experimental territory. After graduating I went on to work for the Gibson Guitar company, designing new musical instrument technologies at the infamous G-WIZ labs R&D facility. That is where I first encountered Matthias Grob, where we developed the Echoplex Digital Pro, and where I became a full on looping fanatic. I've moved on from there, to the lucrative multimedia frontier in the silly-con valley, but I've maintained my interests in the loop world by creating the Looper's Delight mailing list and web site. I hope to have my hands deep in the next generation of looping instruments as well. I like creating music with a strong rhythmic foundation. Darkness, anger, tension, aggression, power, moodiness, and chaos are themes I have the most attraction to. I'm currently developing my style and gear collection into a sort of improvised ambient-techno-artrock-jungle-deathmetal-hiphop something or other. I still like to play jazz once in a while, and lately there has been a bluesy/country-ish twang coming from god knows where. Now if I only had some free time..... -------------------- Name: Bryan Helm Age: 38 Address: Longmont, Colorado Phone: 303-684-9069 e-mail: sarajanes@mdcs.com or ambient@adnc.com web-page: http://www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html Primary Looping Gear: Electro-Harmonix 16 Second Digital Delay Lexicon Jamman 32 second Delay-Looper Mackie 1202 mixer Alesis Microverb Roland TR-505 drum machine Live Sound: Korg DW-8000 synthesizer AB 200 W Stereo Amp 6 string electric guitar 2 JBL 4311 voice Studio Monitors Influences: Brian Eno Jade Warrior Robert Fripp Gentle Giant Wendy Carlos Split Enz Mike Oldfield XTC Harry Nillson Jan Garabek Peter Gabriel Stockhausen Miles Davis Glenn Gould Nick Drake Carl Stalling Steve Hillage Musical Style: An equal amount of layered ambient loops, and textured rhythm oriented loops, with and without solo counterpoint via: Primary Instrument(s) keyboard,guitar, or voice. Ensembles: Cloud Silence 79-81 Ample Parking 81-84 Nelson & Helm 84-85 League of Crafty Guitarists 85 Dozey Lumps 88-91 Bindlestiff 91-present Available Recordings: Cassette only: "The Weight of The Paper" 100 min. "Musing Moon and Solemn Sun" 100 min. "Coincidences" 60 min. "Out of A Clear Blue Sky" 90 min. The latest. These and Bindlestiff tapes available only through Studio Seventeen Productions On CD: "Robert Fripp and The League of Crafty Guitarists Live!" available from Possible Productions at: PossProd@aol.com Contact Info: To request a current catalog: Studio Seventeen Productions P.O.Box 461363 Escondido, CA 92046 or e-mail to... ambient@adnc.com or look and listen at.... http://www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html direct comments to me at.... sarajanes@mdcs.com Personal Statement: No one in my family played an instrument of any kind but they loved to play records. My dad liked Mississippi Delta blues, and jazz, and rock up to Hendrix. My mom liked Rachmaninoff and American country music.Into this world of influences, and others, in 1968 came Walter Carlos's "Switched on Bach". From the age of ten I wanted to hear any new sound you could make with anything,period. Electronic, acoustic, if it made a noise, I wanted to tweak it till it coughed up the sound. Having dropped out of college( a B+ in choir, an F in theory) I got a guitar/amp,a reel to reel, and effects including a Roland Space-Echo to combat my friend's Echo-Plex. That was 1978 and I've been repeating signals via analog and digital means ever since. True looping started in late 1979 with 2 half tracks at 7 and 1/2 ips. Since then I've enjoyed making some of the most relaxing and annoying "music" that I can manage on a limited budget. My wife of 15 years has some of the more tolerant ears on the planet, and both my boys ages 7 and 12, think I'm crazy. The tapes prove this I'm told. Looping can produce some of the most delicate and powerful textures available in modern music. The frame of mind generated by having to construct live loops in performance (particularly without an "Undo" function) is one of concentrated bliss for me.Looping is a solitary pursuit to a lot of its explorers, so I don't know how interactive many of them will choose to be with this forum. Whatever happens...I'll be looping and glad to talk with anyone else who loops, about... whatever. Bryan Helm ------------------ Name: George Henry Age: 42 Address: 12870 East Daybreak Court, Jacksonville, FL 32246 Phone: (904)221-6438 E-Mail: windharp@fcol.com URL: None presently; will announce when I get one. Primary Looping Gear: I use a Roland VG-8, which provides a maximum delay of 1023 ms; and a crude audio editor that came bundled with a sound card. I would like to acquire PC-based audio software, and possibly a dedicated looping instrument as well. Influences: Too numerous, eclectic, and wide-ranging to list (seriously). Musical Style / Concentration: I am working toward an integration of freely flowing improvisation with discretely composed (i.e. sequenced) musical parts. Two different parts of my brain know how to make music in their own separate ways. I'm hoping for interesting results when I get them From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 16:10:56 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 5 14:24:54 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0v9eDN-00036M-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 14:24:53 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9eDO-0002Ko-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 14:24:54 -0700 Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 14:19:16 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: You asked for it... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-1677489048-1231659079-844550356=:28472" Resent-Message-ID: <"dlV7WB.A.CKC.oFtVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/375 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 14:24:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 79081637a7e867f8f4275273827d2507 working well together. If I wanted to find my music in a store, I'd probably look in the "ambient" category. Ensembles: Cirrus Susurrus Personnel / primary instruments: George Henry - Chapman Stick and Roland VG-8 Cynthia Henry - Zendrum Available Recordings: None; working on a demo. Personal Statement: I've been interested in looping since hearing "Frippertronics" and some Steve Reich pieces a few years back. Cindy and I have been avid music fans since childhood. I've played guitar since I was 14, and Cindy used to play the flute. We have lately adopted the notion that we would like to create and publicize our own musical expressions. A rough translation from Latin of "Cirrus Susurrus" is "Whispering Wisps" ... not intended to give the false impression that our music is always subtle and unobtrusive. ------------------ NAME Pat Hickey AGE 37 ADDRESS Clearwater, Florida, USA PHONE 813 669 6702 E-MAIL brzrkr@nielsenmedia.com URL none at present PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR 1978 B.C.Rich Mockingbird or 1964 Fender Jaguar Art SGX/Nitro Preamp/Effects with X-15 Ultrafoot controller JamMan A-B Systems 75w amp Bullfrog 12in/horn combo cab Just got a vortex, I'll put it in there somewhere. Am unhappy with the lack of control over what does/not go to loop, so want to add a mixer or patcher to setup. I'd *really* like computer control of effects setups, so I can choose one from a menu. Ditto for sequencing loop segments, so I can concentrate on playing. INFLUENCES I'm an old rocker, stuck in "Progressive" era. Interests include jazz, classical, ambient - no rap or country. Robert Fripp a big influence. Saw Frippertronics several times, even bought two Tascam 3340s to do same myself (they are for sale, since the JamMan does this in a half-height rack slot!). Torn a big influence. Many, many, many other influences, from Al DiMeola to Bella Fleck with many side trips (so to speak). MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION Rock/fusion/ambient. ENSEMBLES None at present. AVAILABLE RECORDINGS None at present. PERSONAL STATEMENT I'm a EE/CS Unix hacker who would love the opportunity (as mentioned on LoopersDelight) to hack audio toys, should the grassroots get deep enough. I have no audio experience, tho. If any of you come down Clearwater way, look me up. ------------------ NAME - Dan Howarth AGE - 20 years ADDRESS - Tucon, Arizona E-MAIL - howarth@u.arizona.edu URL - http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR - Chapman Stick, Digitech Studio Quad, Morley PDWs, 4 and 8 second Digitech Time Machines. INFLUENCES - Robert Fripp, Trey Gunn, 311, Jan Garbarek MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION - everything the four above influences can make you think of... --------------------- NAME: l.collier hyams AGE: 30 ADDRESS: 300 Second St. #3, Troy NY 12180 PHONE: 518-272-8409 E-MAIL: HYAMSL@RPI.EDU URL: http://www.nsula.edu/~hyams/ PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR - jamdude, effectron II, tape looper(gibson), hyperprism/mac INFLUENCES - stuart copland and the other cops, yes circa 74ish to 78, j.r.r.tolkein, bruce lee, bauhaus w/ Itten, Klee, Maholly-Nagy, Thai music, West African music, skanky funk and udderriddims, reggae from bob/steel pulse/early black uhuru. MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION - world music styles (riddimik) atmospheric ENSEMBLES - collier hyams groupo uno, international dub corps, trousers AVAILABLE RECORDINGS - collier hyams' "peer", idc's "wonder where you are" PERSONAL STATEMENT - use the tools that work. ignore the people that say you can't. -------------------- NAME: Ted R. Killian AGE: 43 ADDRESS: Goleta, California PHONE: (805) 685-4827 E-MAIL: killinfo@aol.com URL: not yet PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: (Formerly) 2 EH 16-Second Digital Delays and a JamMan, (currently) a pair of Oberheims. INFLUENCES: I was inspired in 1971 by a guitar playing friend-of-a-friend who had rigged up a pair of reel-to-reel recorders with a loop of tape between them, and later by the 1973-4 recordings of Robert Fripp and Brian Eno. Other significant looping influences along the way in addition to (Fripp/Eno) are: Paul Dresher, Steve Tibbets, Bill Frissell, David Torn, Adrian Belew, Nels Cline, Phil Keaggy, etc. MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: Electroacousticabstractexpressionistjazzfolknoise(?) Guitartorture(?) New music(?) I can also do a pretty mean Leo Kottkesqe thing on the side. ENSEMBLES: April Fools (with Josef Woodard), Brain Trust (with Jim Connolly and Garren Horgen), Jim Connolly Group (with Jim Connolly, Jeff Kaiser and Richard Dunlap), Ted Killian Group (with Richard Dunlap and master percussionist/CMP recording artist John Bergamo). AVAILABLE RECORDINGS: None (all out-of-print vanity stuff). PERSONAL STATEMENT: I first took up the guitar in 1964 at age 10. I first seriously took up "looping" on a regular and exclusive basis nearly twenty years later. I have been an active performer/pioneer in the Ventura and Santa Barbara (CA) "new music" scenes for several years. On ocassion, I have ventured down to L.A. for appearances at various festivals, Santa Monica's "Alligator Lounge" and on radio station KPFK. Mostly, I perform as a self-contained "solo" but have been increasingly involved in doing the "loop thing" in an improvisational ensemble context (a much more challenging task since I have never been in a "band" in the traditional sense of the word.). I suppose that since what we do is heavily influenced by one technique and its related technologies (looping) it might seem that we are all merely following in the perceived "wakes" of the more visible "giants" in the field (who have gone before us and have been prominently recorded and marketed). Like many of the rest of you, I hope to make my own artistic contributions (visible or not) to the endeavor of making music with whatever convenient tools and techniques present themselves (looping being just one). I am thankful for the odd sense of community I feel developing here. ------------------- NAME: Andre LaFosse AGE: 22 ADDRESS: California Institute of the Arts, Box CO-17, Valencia, CA 91355 PHONE: (805) 253-1780 E-MAIL: altruist@shoko.calarts.edu, alafosse@indy1.calarts.edu PRIMARY INSTRUMENT: Electric guitar, also sequencing and occasional guitar synthesizer PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: Oberheim Echoplex Digital Pro (108 second configuration) Lexicon Vortex Alesis QuadraVerb GT Korg O3R/W Synth module (driven via Roland GR-50 guitar interface, utilizing internal delay lines for looping) INFLUENCES: Miroslav Tadic, Allan Holdsworth, Ani Difranco, David Torn, Skinny Puppy, Robert Fripp, Santiago Vazquez, Jimi Hendrix, Miles Davis, Wadada Leo Smith, David Gilmour, John McLaughlin, and many others. MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: My main focus is to find my own music to play, which I haven't completely found in any one given genre. Towards that end (and in spite of my disdain for segregation of musical "types"), some areas I have studied or worked in could be classified as: Progressive rock, Industrial, Free jazz, Common Practice and Contemporary Classical, Ambient, Funk, European folk, Fusion, Javanese Gamelan, and miscellaneous areas of experimental (and non-experimental) work. AVAILABLE RECORDINGS: _The Prodigal Son Comes Clean_ (1996 independent cassette, available for free upon request) PERSONAL STATEMENT: If I were restricted for the rest of my days to playing only a straight guitar direct into an unprocessed amp, I'd probably be fine with that. Nonetheless, my efforts at finding a voice on the instrument have led me through various experiments with effects processing, an uneasy relationship with guitar synthesis, and more recently (and probably most successfully) an exploration of looping as a real-time musical tool. One of the main thrusts of my work over the last several years has been to isolate my "rig" down to two hands, a guitar, an amp, and a patch cord, and to work with those basic elements to the fullest possible extent. In this way, looping strikes me as perhaps the most powerful means of electronically augmenting the guitar. Unlike MIDI guitar or many elaborate processing signal paths, it allows the finest details of one's own playing, as opposed to a factory preset on a processor or synth module, to enter directly into the musical picture. I'm currently enrolled in my final year in the Multi-Focus Guitar program at Cal Arts. My hopes for post-graduation life are to try and find other artists with similar interests and ambitions, and to continue to make music that feels real to me. ----------------- NAME: Todd Madson AGE: 33 ADDRESS: 3953 Bryant Avenue South #1, Minneapolis, MN 55409 PHONE: (612) 827-7812 (612) 884-7951 (Images at Twilight BBS) E-MAIL: todd.madson@lasermaster.com -or- crash@waste.org URL: http://www.waste.org/~crash/index.html PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR (or methodology for non-electronic loopists): Lexicon Vortex, ART SGE (v1.8), Boss DD-3 delay, Ibanez Swell Flanger. Charvel, Yamaha, and Heartfield guitars, Kawai, Korg and Casio synths, looped Roland human rhythm composer, Mesa Boogie Studio Preamp, Roland JC-120, etc. all hooked up to the mighty (but tiny) MADSOUND studio - the 4-track that could. INFLUENCES: Allan Holdsworth, John Goodsall, John McLaughlin, David Torn, Steve Tibbets, Terje Rypdal, Edgar Froese (as a guitarist), Eric Johnson, Buckethead, Shawn Lane, Wayne Shorter, Percy Jones, Kit Watkins, Cypher7, Steve Hillage, Steve Hackett, Steve Morse, etc. You name it. Music with lots of grandeur and drama. MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: Heavy aggressive super ambient energy prog with an emphasis on angular arpeggiated chordal structures, high energy solos and eerie ambient pads. ENSEMBLES: Crash, Hydravian, Alien Spore Bomb [solo work moniker] AVAILABLE RECORDINGS: Contact me for information regarding demos. Also, samples of my work is available on my web page. PERSONAL STATEMENT: My music tends to fill a void for my own listening as I typically like excessive amounts of everything I like - commercial music sometimes doesn't provide this vicarious thrill. It allows me to explore areas that most bands wouldn't bother dealing with. I like exploring the area between consonance, dissonance, energy, melody and duration. Hopefully my music might inspire someone to want to pick up an instrument of their own and try their hand at writing, or maybe fill them with a good feeling that you can do odd music on your own terms and get away with it without having to compromise to commercial demands. ToddM 02Oct96 ~~~~~~~ ----------------------- NAME: MALHOMME, Olivier AGE: 29 ADDRESS: Unité d¹Oncologie Moleculaire/ Institut Pasteur de lille 1 rue Calmette B.P. 245 59 019 Lille cedex France PHONE: 20 87 77 29 or 20 07 26 89 E-MAIL: malhomme@infobiogen.fr URL: none PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: A poor ART sge with 2 incredible seconds (hum!), seconded with a midi delay via Cubase (and a Roland gr-50). Otherwise, organic real loops: no delay, I play everything on a multi-tracker (akai mg14d), and mix then. INFLUENCES: This one is gonna be tough. From time order: Old renaissance music, then Bach Handel, Scarlatti D., then jump to Debussy, Stravinski, Bartok, Ravel, then to Sylvian, King Crimson, K. Bush, P. Gabriel, Nyman and Glass, NIN,T. Heads. But I should add books, films, that are as influencial....Like the maltese falcon, any films from J.Cassavetes, or Trust me from Hal Hartley, or Abel Ferrara.. And Lewis Caroll, and Kundera OK let's just stop here.... MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: My real area of concentration is being able to reach Music (with capital M) and to keep an experimental side in it. That doen¹t explain anything, I know.... ENSEMBLES: Panama (sort of rock group, just for the record) The Red Point (this thing got a KC flavour sometime...) Olivier Malhomme (isn¹t it simple) actually, the ballets I wrote for a contenporary dancing company here Olivier Malhomme (again): songs with more of a meditative feel. AVAILABLE RECORDINGS: in progress. Nothing is finished so far.... so, keep tuned.. PERSONAL STATEMENT: I don¹t know what to add... -------------- NAME: Matthias AGE: 1959 ADDRESS: Salvador, Brasil PHONE: 0055 71 235 54 94 E-MAIL: Matthias@bahianet.com.br URL - PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: Echoplex PRIMARY INSTRUMENT: PARADIS guitar INFLUENCES: Pink Floyd, Vollenweider, Ryptal, Fripp MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: New Age? Ambient? ENSEMBLES: Many instant duos AVAILABLE RECORDINGS: "Musica AguArianA para viajar" PERSONAL STATEMENT Well, I invented the Echoplex because I needed Multiply, Undo, BrotherSync to play long rhythmical loops, and in duos. ------------------ NAME: Matt McCabe AGE: 25 ADDRESS: 2255 E. 8th St., Chico, CA 95928 PHONE: 916.345.7221 E-MAIL: finley@ecst.csuchico.edu URL: http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~finley/kingnever.html PRIMARY INSTRUMENT: guitar PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: Lexicon JamMan and Vortex, Digitech GSP-2101, Alesis QuadraVerb, and Rane SM-82. INFLUENCES: Fripp, Torn, Summers, Belew, West-Oram, Bowie, Eno, Sylvian, etc. MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: modern rock with progressive/ambient/industrial/experimental textures. ENSEMBLES: King Never, Able Cain. AVAILABLE RECORDINGS: King Never "Ambient Guitar Noise: Volume 1, Able Cain "Able Cain." PERSONAL STATEMENT: lemme think about it!!! ------------------- NAME: Doug Michael AGE: 33 ADDRESS: California E-MAIL: dmic27@ccnet.com URL: http://www.ccnet.com/~dmic27 PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR : I use a Roland DEP-5 which has a maximum delay time at 2000ms. I also have access to the old Electro-Harmonix 16 second delay. INFLUENCES : Torn, Holdsworth, Stockhausen, Davidovsky, Zappa MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION : Electro-Acoustic music, Computer Music, Jazz/Rock & Improvised music. ENSEMBLES : Doug Michael & The Outer Darkness (Trio:Guitar,Bass,Drums) Also solo music AVAILABLE RECORDINGS : I have three cassette releases; "Doug Michael & The Outer Darkness" "Silent Decay" "Embers" Available at http://www.ccnet.com/~dmic27 PERSONAL STATEMENT : My name is Doug Michael and I'm a composer/guitarist. I have three areas of musical interest at the moment - 1. Electro-Acoustic Music 2. Solo Music ala Torn 3. Electric Power Trio Music (with live players) I am starting my own record company and hope to have a cd release out by next year. I am on a constant quest to compose and create new music. Thanks to the rapid developing technology in music and computers, things are now possible in the music making process that were only dreams a few years ago. It's a great time to be alive. --------------------- NAME: Jonathan Morris AGE: 25 ADDRESS: 1003 Justin Ln, #2074, Austin, TX 78757, USA PHONE: (512) 454-9821 (work) E-MAIL: jonmor@moontower.com URL: none PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: Digitech RDS 7.6, ART Multiverb 2.0, Ensoniq mirage INFLUENCES: Robert Fripp, Brian Eno, Steve Reich, David Torn MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: Experimental instrumental electro-acoustic ENSEMBLES: just now forming an ensemble for live performance AVAILABLE RECORDINGS Chamber Works for Electric Guitar and Others (cassette only) ----------------------------- NAME: Steve Murrell AGE: 33 ADDRESS: 9091 Yorkshire Dr., Saline, MI 48176 PHONE: (313) 429-3161 E-MAIL: smurrell@ford.com PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: Lexicon JamMan (32 sec), Digitech Valve F/X PRIMARY INSTRUMENT: Chapman Grand Stick INFLUENCES: Robert Fripp/KC, Eno, Mick Karn, Terje Rypdal, Steve Reich, etc. MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: Progressive Jazz Rock Techno-Industrial Fusion ENSEMBLES: Stick/Drummer Duo (soon to add a guitarist) PERSONAL STATEMENT: Concerning music, I would currently consider myself a passionate hobbyist. -------------------------- Name: David Cooper Orton Age: 41 E-Mail: david.orton@bl.uk URL: http://subnet.virtual-pc.com/~or387751/ Primary Looping Gear: From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 16:10:56 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 5 14:24:54 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0v9eDN-00036M-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 14:24:53 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9eDO-0002Ko-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 14:24:54 -0700 Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 14:19:16 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: You asked for it... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-1677489048-1231659079-844550356=:28472" Resent-Message-ID: <"dlV7WB.A.CKC.oFtVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/375 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 14:24:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 79081637a7e867f8f4275273827d2507 Lexicon JamMan and Ibanez digital delay footpedal with with `hold' facility Influences: I'm not sure that after 25 years of playing there's a transparrently obvious link between how I sound and other peoples' music, but Peter Green and Pat Metheny are probably central sources of inspiration, and then `the usual suspects' in no order - Eno/Fripp, Torn, Frisell, Brook, Reich, Barber, Part, Rypdal, Hedges etc plus others less directly related to this area - Zappa, maybe? (or who I forget just now) Musical Style: Ambient is so obvious, I suppose it should go in. At the moment most of what I'm doing is forming v e r y s l o w e-bow based drones with clean-tone guitar doing ethereal wot-nots over the top. Hey - I don't know, `I just do it', right?! There's a 20 second .wav file on my Web site which is a general intro. I aim to hook the JamMan to my drum machine and see what introducing a bit more of a pulse sounds like, maybe even this year... I've yet to try looping `live' (my other activites include a jazz duo, and swing/r'n'b/blues bands of `selective' performance schedules... Available Recordings: Non stictly commercial, although I have an hour's worth of material (more, for those of a strong constituion) titled `The Comfort of Strange Aires' which I can provide for a modest fee - say 5 pounds sterling or equivalent. ----------------------- NAME Michael Peters AGE 42 ADDRESS Cologne, Germany E-MAIL 100041.247@compuserve.com URL http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters PRIMARY INSTRUMENT Guitars PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR Paradis Loop Delay INFLUENCES Eno, Fripp & Guitar Craft, Sylvian, Torn, Frith MUSICAL STYLE Experimental Ambient Minimalist ENSEMBLES Trio GitarriStick, Camera Obscura AVAILABLE RECORDINGS Various cassettes PERSONAL STATEMENT I don't consider myself as a guitarist who uses loops to create a background for solos (although this does happen in some of my pieces). Guitar happens to be my primary instrument, and I compose Guitar Craft influenced pieces for my acoustic ensemble, but in my solo work, I often use the electric guitar to create improvised soundscapes which don't sound like guitar music at all. I've always been fascinated by unusual sounds and unusual musical structures (this is why I'm currently experimenting with environmental sounds and computer generated algorithmic music). I'm dreaming of creating a magical music which is so strange that it could come from another planet. (There are probably thousands of music making civilisations in this galaxy. What does their music sound like?) -Michael --------------------------- NAME: Paul Poplawski, Ph.D. AGE: 47 ADDRESS: 200 Unami Trail Newark, DE 19711 PHONE: 302/737-8738 E-MAIL: Paulpop@ssnet.com PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: tape, Jamman INFLUENCES Fripp, Eno, Torn, Kraftwerk, McLaughlin, Glass, Riley, Reich MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: improvisational musipeautics PERSONAL STATEMENT: I have played in the improvisational "performance art" group, "Dick Uranus" for the past 20 years. In that time we have amassed thousands of hours of tape that remains in our archive. We utilize found and purchased musical elements and "looping" as it is currently considered was a method from the beginning. I am currently performing publically in the Newark, DE area with the group "Accidents will Happen" which is a totally improvised ensemble utilizing guitar, bass and other devices as input elements into various systems for further treatment. I am not purposely being cute here ... though all of this at times sounds so highminded ... I like to have a sense of humor about these things ... ---------------- NAME: Jim Poppen AGE: 26 ADDRESS: San Francisco, CA E-MAIL: ibex@ix.netcom.com PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: Oberheim Echoplex Digital Pro (198 seconds) INFLUENCES: The usual, such as Robert Fripp, Bill Frisell, and Steve Reich, and the not so usual, such as The Grateful Dead and The Red House Painters. MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: As far as music I play that has room for looping ideas, let's say "Guitar Oriented Ambient Pop", but I am working on throwing in more psychedelia and general weirdness. Thanks to David Torn for that motivation. ENSEMBLES: I am currently writing/recording in my spare bedroom with a long time friend/bassist, Seth Solomonow. PERSONAL STATEMENT: My first taste of looping was fed care of The Beatles song, "#9", when I was maybe 7 years old. (It freaked me out, but I still listened). I got into drumming first, and progressed onto guitar at age 14 because my Dad was a guitarist, and I figured I could get free stuff from him (wrong). Heard King Krimson's "Discipline" at 15, and was hooked. Since then, I can honestly say that I have listened to, been influenced by, and liked all genres of music, as long as I could hear some sort of "quality". Any talk of looping gets me giddy, perplexed, and thrilled, all at the same time. ------------------- NAME: Teed Rockwell AGE: 45 ADDRESS: 2419A Tenth St. Berkeley CA 94710 PHONE: 510 548-8779 E-MAIL: 74164.3703@compuserve.com URL: ? PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: Oberheim Echoplex digital pro INFLUENCES: Les Paul, Ali Akbar Khan, Latin Harp music MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: Original World music ENSEMBLES: Geist (harp Chapman Stick(r), Percussion) Stick and Tabla playing Classical Indian Ragas, Solo with Echoplex. AVAILABLE RECORDINGS: With Geist: MOODS OF LIGHT, MORE LIGHT with Tablas: MUSIC FROM THE GANGES with Echoplex: coming soon.for Cassettes, send $10 plus $2 handling ($15 for MORE LIGHT CD) to above address. PERSONAL STATEMENT: The stick appealled to me because it enabled me to create rich textures. The Oberheim Echoplex makes those textures richer and more flexible than I ever thought possible. Am most interested in how to create compositional structures using the unique information processing abilities of the Echoplex. I am a stick player first, a looper second, using my own unique tuning that has all ten strings in the Guitar range. ---------------- NAME: Ken Rosser AGE: 34 ADDRESS: Eagle Rock, in Los Angeles, CA PHONE: (213) 255-0624 E-MAIL: krosser414@aol.com URL: none yet PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: Lexicon Vortex, LXP-5 (hoping to purchase JamMan soon) INFLUENCES: Miles Davis, John Abercrombie, David Torn, King Crimson, Egberto Gismonte, too many others to list MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: jazz, world music, funk, experimental ENSEMBLES: guitar/marimba duo Dual Force, sideman with Richard Sinclair, Don Preston, Brazilian group Axe, yet-unnamed improvisational guitar/bass/drum trio, many freelance jazz gigs. AVAILABLE RECORDINGS: available on request, but none commercially yet. PRIMARY INSTRUMENT: Guitar (electric and acoustic), Chinese Pipa PERSONAL STATEMENT: I am a relatively new convert to the world of looping, and I am very excited about adding it to my repetoire of techniques. My main love is in improvising music, not necessarily in conjunction with a specific tradtion, but not necessarily independent of them either. Another of my fascinations is in unusual combinations of instrumental textures (I have a classical composer friend working on a 'concierto' of sorts for electric guitar and wind quintet), so I definitely see exploring looping as a way of increasing my own textural vocabulary. I look forward to this forum not only as a means of getting information, but also to find some willing collaborators in the Southern California area. ------------------- NAME: dave stafford AGE: 38 ADDRESS: p.o. box 461363, escondido, ca 92046, u.s.a. EMAIL: ambient@adnc.com URL: general http://www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html bindlestiff http:\\www.adnc.com\web\ambient\bindlest.html dave stafford http:\\www.adnc.com\web\ambient\davestaf.html the dozey lumps http:\\www.adnc.com\web\ambient\thedozey.html GEAR: (RACK) oberheim echoplex digital pro (198 second configuration) w/FC pedal digitech TSR-24S (5 second loop) w/CC pedal digitech RDS-8000 (8 second loop) roland GP-16 w/CC pedal realtube preamp A-B power amp ground control midi pedal digitech whammy II pitch pedal (INPUT DEVICES) Ibanez Explorer Electric Guitar, New Standard Tuning Ovation 1867 Acoustic/Electric Guitar, New Standard Tuning (Energy Bow utilized with both above) Yamaha DX11 Synthesizer (studio only: Yamaha DX7S keyboard) Sony Discman INFLUENCES: the beatles adrian belew brian eno kate bush camel robert fripp king crimson the league of gentlemen the league of crafty guitarists early genesis gentle giant gryphon allan holdsworth johann sebastian bach peter hammill van der graaf generator roy harper nick harper the innocence mission ravi shankar ali akbar khan joni mitchell john dowland todd rundgren utopia split enz 10cc godley & creme tomaso albinoni neil young erik satie xtc frank zappa MUSICAL STYLE: ambient/semi-ambient (solo) ambient/semi-ambient/loud (bindlestiff) active acoustic guitar duo (the dozey lumps) ENSEMBLES: bindlestiff (ambient electronic group) the dozey lumps (acoustic guitar duo) AVAILABLE RECORDINGS: with the dozey lumps SSC3400 One Lump Or Two? with bindlestiff SSC3401 Christmas In England SSC3402 Quiet SSC3403 Loud SSC3404 The Night Sky SSC3405 Spiral Ginger SSC3406 Sleep It Off SSC3407 The Call Of The Mild SSC3408 Untitled (forthcoming October 1996) SSC3409 Untitled (forthcoming October 1996) dave stafford (solo) SSC1701 The Passion Of The Seeking SSC1702 Song With No End SSC1703 Alien Landscapes SSC1704 Dreams And Visions SSC1705 Voices SSC1706 Back To The Real SSC1707 Worldview I: The Dissolution Of Structure SSC1708 Worldview II: The Untenable Transition SSC1709 Worldview III: The Land Of Freedom SSC1710 Worldview IV: The Voice Of Music SSC1711 Universeview SSC1712 The Sea, The Sea SSC1713 Semiambient SSC1714 1 SPOOL DNA LOOPS 1 SSC1715 Charm Zone SSC1716 Pay Your Respects SSC1717 Other Memory (Remastered) SSC1718 Sand Island (Original Version) SSC1719 Other Memory/Sand Island (Remastered) CONTACT: studio seventeen productions p.o. box 461363 escondido, ca 92046 u.s.a. (619) 739-8346 ambient@adnc.com PERSONAL STATEMENT: as a solo performer, i generally attempt to approach performance with no preconceived ideas of content. in this way, if i am fortunate, music will make itself apparent. most of the music i create is wholly improvised, with perhaps a basic starting point that i've established. this leads to a myriad of possibilitities, with musical hazard at one end of the spectrum and musical music at the other...and anything in between might occur. there is nothing quite like beginning a performance with no set list, no parameters...anything goes, and anything can happen. "expectations are a prison..." the same ideas apply to my work within the electronic group bindlestiff, wherein the pieces have a basic structure but each individual performance is wholly improvised and different. for the most part, i tend to stay within the realms of the ambient, with occasional excursions towards the loud. the use of the energy bow as the primary source of sound really creates a special ambience all it's own, and by working specifically with the e-bow, the sounds and loops i create are distinctive and unique. in this way music can appear at it's most unexpected...surprising, delightful, frightening, overwhelming, gentle...but all with, hopefully, that quality we call "beauty". "the highest quality of attention we may give is love"...so we relax and allow the music to flow. ------------------- NAME: David Stagner AGE: 31 ADDRESS: 508 5th St #16, Coralville, IA 52241 PHONE: 319-337-8269 E-MAIL: dstagner@icarus.net URL: http://www.leepfrog.com/~dstagner PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: Instruments: Yamaha acoustic guitar with Fishman transducer and Crown internal mic Aria Pro II electric guitar, Rat II distortion, BBE preamp Sony Discman CD player Looping devices: Lexicon JamMan with 8 secs memory Lexicon Vortex with expression pedal DeltaLabs Echotron with 4096ms delay, infinite repeat, feedback control Homemade 4-track mixer Sound sources go into the mixer. The Echotron is in the mixer's mono effects loop. Mixer outs 1 and 2 feed the Vortex. Vortex outputs come back into the mixer. Mixer outs 3 and 4 are split and feed the JamMan and a stereo line mixer. The JamMan's outputs also feed the stereo line mixer. Line mixer output is monitored on headphones, home stereo equipment, or recording equipment (Tascam PortaStudio or Sony stereo VCR for mastering). INFLUENCES: Looping: Robert Fripp, Brian Eno, David Torn, Roger Miller (Maximum Electric Piano, not "King of the Road" :), Bill Frisell, Adrian Belew, Henry Kaiser, Terminator X (Public Enemy) Guitar: Robert Fripp, Jimi Hendrix, Richard Thompson, Sonic Youth, Michael Hedges, David Torn, John Renbourn, Marc Ribot, Steve Howe, Henry Kaiser, Adrian Belew, Frank Zappa, Sonny Sharrock, Lou Reed/Velvet Underground Non-guitar non-looping music: Carl Stalling, Charles Ives, Conlon Nancarrow, Dr Demento, spy music, Ornette Coleman (harmolodic), Cecil Taylor and other free jazz, Celtic folk music, Indian classical, Balinese gamelan music, African pop, "filk" music Non-musical artistic: William Burroughs, William Gibson, cartoons (especially Warner Bros), Star Trek, existential theatre MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: Escape the clutches of Western harmony! Use the guitar and looping devices to build dense clusters of notes and tones. Actually, most of my music is unaccompanied acoustic guitar. I prefer free or slightly structured inprovisation to "songs". I want rules and guidelines to restrain the music, not composition, if you see the difference. The acoustic guitar, freed of standard tuning, is remarkably flexible for this. Looping gives me two benefits - first, it increases the potential note density, and second, it helps me set up musical environments that are not completely under my control. It's just another way of setting up rules for improvisational environments. ENSEMBLES: None. AVAILABLE RECORDINGS: None. PERSONAL STATEMENT: The best looping music I ever made required no involvement from me beyond the initial setup. I tuned an electric guitar to a highly resonant tuning with octave and fifth relationships. It went into a distortion pedal, then a Digitech 2 Second Delay/Flanger/Chorus with a noticable short delay (about 100-250ms) and slow/wide sweep (for a pitch wobble), then into an Electro-Harmonix 16 Second Delay (which I sold and will regret for the rest of my life) set to about 4 secs delay with high feedback. This all fed into a Fender tube amp turned up rather loud. I would lean the guitar against the side of the amp and give it a little tap. With the volume and distortion, this was enough to start it feeding back. But the Digitech-induced wobble and echoes and the long loop destabilized the feedback, so it tended to jump around from string to string, harmonic to harmonic. This melody of sorts got looped and fed back. Soon, there was a rich bed of harmonically related notes and noise, hundreds of echoes from the last minute or so of music playing at once. It was like an chaos orchestra. Of course, it was also really loud, so I'd usually leave the amp in the basement, and go upstairs to listen to it for an hour or so. I really wish I had some tapes now. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Sat Oct 05 16:11:12 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 5 14:34:45 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0v9eMt-0003MP-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 14:34:44 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9eMu-0002RK-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 14:34:44 -0700 Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 14:31:37 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Details, details Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"2SOiO.A.wQC.LRtVy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/376 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 14:34:44 -0700 X-UIDL: bd0b162798b3eb62245939cb4accc941 Regarding the last post: -- If you're scratching your head wondering what "the big one" is, try the "view attachments" command on your mailreader. (Perhaps some kind sould out there can re-post the index to the list in a manner not requiring an attachment command.) -- If there are informational errors in your entry on the list, please let Kim and me know so that we can make the necessary corrections. Hope you find the info interesting... --Andre From ???@??? Sun Oct 06 00:57:49 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 5 22:25:08 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0v9li8-0006qo-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 22:25:08 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9li7-0004kF-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 22:25:07 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 02:28:17 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: tape loops on the radio Resent-Message-ID: <"t8VPnD.A.RaE.mJ0Vy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/377 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 22:25:07 -0700 X-UIDL: 91d13b92950c10fe3a8d31b478fedb99 I hope Jerry does not mind if I forward his nice story from the broadcast world to the loop world. Maybe you all know who Joe Frank is. I did not and have an idea now and would like to hear his *tape around mic stand loops*: >Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 22:11:10 -0700 >To: deckusers-l@teleport.com >From: ag506@lafn.org (Jerry Summers) >Subject: TANGENTIAL to "Positive Experiences" ... > >Joe Frank is a radio artist whose various weekly program series ("Work in >Progress," "In the Dark," and "Somewhere Out There") have been distributed >continuously for more than 10 years by National Public Radio, and aired by >NPR affiliates all over the country. > >He explores various facets of the human psyche - dark, twisted, quirky, >etc. In each program, he weaves several seemingly unconnected stories >together, sometimes monologues, sometimes using actors, sometimes using >found sound from the real world. Aside from his distinctive voice, his >sonic signature is use of continuous music loops and drones running under >the stories. > >He makes these loops the old-fashioned way, on 1/4" tape, often 20 or 30 >feet long using mic stands to turn the corner, go down the hall into the >studio, turn around, and come back. (BTW, the source is music from >commercially available CDs, and as I understand it, use is covered by NPR's >blanket agreements with ASCAP and BMI.) > > >Agreed as to precision, finesse, elegance, whatever you name want to give >to the power of DAWs. And dragging regions wins hands down over having >dozens of pieces of 1/4" taped to the walls, cabinetry, sides of tape >machines, etc. So many times for so many years I've mused, "Wouldn't it be >great to just push a button and....." Now I can, BUT.... > ... >Here we run headlong into the issue of rock-solid, totally uncompromised, >reliability; I suspect that the reel-to-reel will remain the medium of >choice for this particular situation for some time. I fully expect that >DAWs will prove to be a giant leap forward for segment production, but for >the forseeable future, when it comes to beating the clock and having >unshakeable faith that the equipment won't fail..... > ... >================================================================ > >Jerry Summers > ag506@lafn.org jsummers@muse.calarts.edu > >I'll defend to the death my God-given right to be totally wrong. > >================================================================ > From ???@??? Sun Oct 06 00:57:53 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 5 22:26:38 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0v9ljZ-0006t0-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 22:26:37 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9lja-0004qS-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 22:26:38 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 02:29:11 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: NAMM mini looper gathering Resent-Message-ID: <"P-T8n.A.BdE.yK0Vy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/379 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 22:26:38 -0700 X-UIDL: 1743b1d82d6df083595630a1406546eb Kims proposual >Yep, I recall. I'm always a bit amazed at just how many people I manage to >remember from those shows. I usually spent those days in some combination >of sensory-overload/hangover/general-trade-show-stupor. I'll probably get >down to good old anaheim this year. I know its a bit early, but is anyone >else planning to do NAMM? Maybe we can plan some kind of mini looper >gathering. > Fun idea. We could create a big banner with a spiral on it and walk through the halls singing loop songs (like OHM) to manifest the movement. No, seriously, apear in such a place, visit stands, talk about needs and ideas with manufacturers and musicians really helps. I never met somebody in flesh after meeting on the net. How is that? I might spend a plain ticket Matthias From ???@??? Sun Oct 06 00:57:52 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 5 22:26:25 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0v9ljN-0006se-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 22:26:25 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9ljO-0004pw-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 22:26:26 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 02:29:23 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: roots Resent-Message-ID: <"PgRj8B.A.JcE.oK0Vy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/378 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 22:26:26 -0700 X-UIDL: 9175ff77e9d30abd3e2144442d500266 >>By the way, I got an idea: I was listening to an old piece of music wich >>is " marche pour la ceremeonie des turcs" from Jean Baptiste Lully (it is >>a late XVIIth century composer who was the "maitre d'ouuvre" of all the >>french music under the reign of Louis XIV). This piece is a long >>orchestrated phrase that repeat itself, and grow in intensity, even though >>the player don't play really louder. That could be somekind of an ancestor >>to repetitive, or minimalistic music that lead to specific looping process >>we use quite daily. What do you al think starting a whole thing about the >>roots of looping? Very interesting, never heard of such! >Repeated phrases, with rising and falling intensity, have been a part of >music for a long, long time I think. Its in music from all over the world, >in all different cultures. If anything, a bit less in European Classical >music, but its certainly present there too. Amazing, isnt it: As if Europe had "escaped" form the "barbarian" repetitive music and then got lost in intelectual ateism until in the 60ies the "stupidity" in the music broke through again and cures the stiffness - a rather radical view, easy to see the oposit if one wants. >I may even hazzard that this sort of repetition is an important part of >making something "musical." I know I often find myself losing interest in >music that keeps going on to something new with out ever repeating >anything, while music that does repeat on various levels keeps me involved. >Seems to happen in experimental/academic music where the composer is trying >to explore some new idea while apparently forgetting some of the old ones. >(oddly enough, I enjoy creating music like that; I should heed my own >advice I think!) What you enjoy to create is never wrong (as long as it does not hurt anyone). When it comes to play for others, that might change a bit, just a bit. For me, there are the two phases: walking (traveling to places you only go once) and resting (come back to the same bed every night), developing and harvesting. Loops help for both, but are more obvious for the resting. Some of the nicest recording of mine happened *after* the loop had faded and I played real solo, but really relaxed and inspired because of the loop that before. And in those phases we often modulating like classical music without ever coming back. This "anti-loop" kind of music is very little explored. It asks for a lot of atention by the listener (not to miss the bus), while the loop kind just enters mind for free. >Technology gives us new instruments that make repetition easier. It also >lets us approach this concept in new ways that were never there before. >This is what the various looping tools we discuss are all about, and what >the attraction is. Very well, Kim! >I think the question still remains from a few weeks ago. How did the >technology driven approach get started? Who were the first ones to make >tape loops? It seems there were quite a few people doing this by the mid to >late sixties, but where did they get it from? I've heard that the first >tape delays were done in radio stations, but I don't know who or when. And >who were the early ones applying it to music? For that matter, did it >really start with tape? Was there anything before that? We have some years left to acumulate and archive that info, I hope ! Matthias From ???@??? Sun Oct 06 00:57:56 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 5 22:26:52 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0v9ljn-0006tc-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 22:26:51 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9ljp-0004r1-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 22:26:53 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 02:29:29 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: linguistic again Resent-Message-ID: <"OJCiy.A.ReE.DL0Vy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/380 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 22:26:53 -0700 X-UIDL: 277d09e16a0d6b77408ac5adabe5fda0 This one is not serious but fundamental at the same time, because things start to exist when we give them a name (as the bible starts). >well, well... i think the word we're looking for here is 'echoplicis' - >from '-plex,-plicis'- it's a suffix usually formed from numeric words; >more or less like saying '-fold' as in 'hundred-fold'. >there's also 'plexus-a-um', the past participle of 'plecto, plectere' - to >braid or plait... which one was the intended, kim? Loved your analisis. No intention. Just marketing (getting some old hippies that remember the tape echoes of the 60ies :-> ) I think there is only one root to the word "plec-" with the idea of "fold". Unfortunately, later the plastic came up and -plex was used a lot to give an idea of "flexible" (which comes from "flec-" to a name and for me it ended up sounding plastic all together. --- Kim stated according to Don: >Echoplex/Echoplecis >Vortex/Vortices Consequently: To echoplecter the sound A sound is echoplexo Musica echoplexa I 'plecto my guitar you 'plectis your drum... just for 'plectomaniacs! To me, the root is LOOP and the derivatives sound much handyer: to loop (portugese: loopar, german: loopen) looper (machine) loopist (musician) loopero (manufacturer) loopy clima looped music (port: musica loopada, ger: geloopte Musik) to loop away (let the sound take over) (german: abloopen) to loop over a recording (give it the touch) How would be the place to do it or to sell the machines? In port: loopadeira any more? Matthias From ???@??? Sun Oct 06 00:57:57 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 5 22:27:55 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0v9lko-0006uV-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 22:27:54 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9lkp-0004sl-00; Sat, 5 Oct 1996 22:27:55 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 02:29:51 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: hyperprism Resent-Message-ID: <"5t3taC.A.YfE.RL0Vy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/381 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 22:27:55 -0700 X-UIDL: 40249ac217af4e1bed2b5a3a738e7c21 >I don't think it's french, ARboretum's address is in San Francisco. There >are several different versions, a 68000 version that runs as a stand alone >on mac's with Digidesign audio boards, a TDM version is a plug-in for >Digidesign's Pro-Tools system, and a PPC version that runs on Powermacs >with no additional hardware. I've only used the PPC version, and I really >like it a lot, though I would think it works better as a post-recording >processor than as a live instrument. I think it's the coolest piece of >audio-sickening software since TurboSynth, and that is high praise. > >Basically, it offers a fairly standard set of effects (Delays, pitch and >time shifting, reverb, ring modulation, etc) with a very non-standard >interface, a blue window on the computer screen with different parameters >of the x and y axis. For example, in the pitch and time changer, pitch is >on the y axis, and playback speed is on the x axis. By drawing lines in the >window, you set the parameters, and these paths can be saved, though not >edited. in the 68000 and TDM versions, the parameters can also be >controlled by external MIDI controllers, but that is not available on the >PPC version, and I doubt that it will be since the PPC version costs about >1/2 the 68000 price, and 1/3 the TDM price. > >There's a demo at www.arboretum.com, which sold me on the software, and the >PPC version is $279, which is pretty cheap for such a cool tool. And I'm >not affiliated Arboretum in any way, if this sounds too much like a sales >plug. > >BTW, hyperprism was named after an Edgar Varese piece, which should give >you an idea of where the designers are at philosophically. > >BTW2: I'm new to this list, and loving it. I'm a bassist and looper from >way back, and currently I'm using a JamMan and lxp-5 for live looping, and >a PPC/Deck/Audiomedia2 setup for serious mangling. > >later, >dt Thanks for all that expanation and corection. It will not run on my 840AV then (grrr). I am using DECK, too. Are you on that list? Wana sell Audiomedia2? but, back to the essence: Can you TAP delay time on Hyperprism ?? Thanks, Matthias From ???@??? Sun Oct 06 04:13:30 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 6 03:26:21 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0v9qPc-0004FO-00; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 03:26:20 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9qPb-0000FG-00; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 03:26:19 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 03:23:34 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: roots (and dj's) Resent-Message-ID: <"AMGgED.A.BK.Ok4Vy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/382 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 03:26:19 -0700 X-UIDL: 3101b9aa128a0a49acf39602e6cc5bde At 10:15 AM 10/5/96, Jon Morris wrote: >> >> I think the question still remains from a few weeks ago. How did the >> technology driven approach get started? Who were the first ones to make >> tape loops? It seems there were quite a few people doing this by the mid to >> late sixties, but where did they get it from? I've heard that the first >> tape delays were done in radio stations, but I don't know who or when. And >> who were the early ones applying it to music? For that matter, did it >> really start with tape? Was there anything before that? > >I beleive that before tape looping, there were some radio engineers who >would scratch records to make them skip on purpose, thus creating loops, >and musique concrete was born. Also, they used the wind-off groove at >the end of a record side to repeat things indefinitely. I'm no expert >regarding this kind of stuff, but I bet that if you search for info on >Musique Concrete, you'll find some names of the first people to compose >with these kinds of materials. > >-Jon Aha! This is a lead. Any Musique Concrete experts hanging about? I thought there may have been people who experimented with records as a musical tool before tape loops, but wasn't sure. Does anybody know more details about that? I'd love to know who these people were and who inspired them. This brings up another branch in the looping family tree that hasn't been touched on at all yet: dj's. Over the past twenty years or so the craft of spinning records has been elevated into a musical art of its own. I've heard some really stunning and creative music coming from guys with a couple of turntables and a box of records. For the longest time I was just completely baffled as to how they did this. I finally had the opportunity to watch up close, and I was even more impressed, if still baffled. I definitely did not come away thinking "Gee, I could do that." Anyway, the dj-musician is really employing loops, using a different technical approach than those of us using delays, real-time loopers, samplers, and our computers. I'm sure some dj's employ these tools as well, I don't know. I know Roland and Akai both make looping products aimed at dj's, generally called phrase samplers. As you might guess, I'm fascinated by this topic. I'd really like to know how dj's approach their music and do their thing. And what the history is and where the influences came from. I think some really interesting cross-pollination could happen as well. So are there any dj's on the list yet? Does anybody know one and want get him/her in here? Maybe I'll venture over to one of the relevent usenet groups and try to get some dj's on the list to provide some different perspectives. Unless someone else wants to beat me over there..... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Oct 06 13:08:09 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 6 08:35:31 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0v9vEn-0000Bb-00; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 08:35:29 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0v9vEn-0005cs-00; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 08:35:29 -0700 Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 10:31:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner X-Sender: dstagner@icarus.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: roots In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"QVQxYC.A.fPF.TD9Vy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/383 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 08:35:29 -0700 X-UIDL: 2f80ad3e34287e722a1d8d8d4de4b776 On Sun, 6 Oct 1996, Matthias wrote: > >Repeated phrases, with rising and falling intensity, have been a part of > >music for a long, long time I think. Its in music from all over the world, > >in all different cultures. If anything, a bit less in European Classical > >music, but its certainly present there too. I find it kind of hard to imagine music without repetition. In repetition is recognition, and the thrill of discovering a pattern. Of course, if the recognition is too easy, the music is boring, and if it is too difficult, the music is incomprehensible. I really like music with lots of interlocking, repeating patterns where the listener's attention can shift from line to line, and the contrasts between the lines. Like West African music, or looping. > >I may even hazzard that this sort of repetition is an important part of > >making something "musical." I know I often find myself losing interest in > >music that keeps going on to something new with out ever repeating > >anything, while music that does repeat on various levels keeps me involved. > >Seems to happen in experimental/academic music where the composer is trying > >to explore some new idea while apparently forgetting some of the old ones. > >(oddly enough, I enjoy creating music like that; I should heed my own > >advice I think!) Sometimes we make music because we *have* to, not because we *want* to. I've made a lot of music that I personally dislike, but I felt I needed to make. An interesting case study here is the improvisational voice of Bill Frisell. Almost unique among jazz soloists, he uses almost no repetition of themes in his solos. Of course, he also uses looping to build backgrounds to play against. :} Something else I find interesting is musicians who can repeat a line, but use different inflections each time they play it. David Torn is a master of this, as are many others who treat each note as a unique entity, rather than part of a "line", without independent importance (it's just personal bias, but the endless 16th note scales and arpeggios of Al DeMiola, Charlie Parker, and others just bore me). This is why I'm currently experimenting with mixers, to be able to feed a loop back out to a processor, and back in on itself, so the sound evolves as it loops. > For me, there are the two phases: walking (traveling to places you only go > once) and resting (come back to the same bed every night), developing and > harvesting. Loops help for both, but are more obvious for the resting. > Some of the nicest recording of mine happened *after* the loop had faded > and I played real solo, but really relaxed and inspired because of the loop > that before. And in those phases we often modulating like classical music > without ever coming back. This "anti-loop" kind of music is very little > explored. It asks for a lot of atention by the listener (not to miss the > bus), while the loop kind just enters mind for free. This makes me think of the Western classical theory ideals of tension and resolution. In classical-descended music, this is done mostly with harmony. I don't know how many jazz theory books I've read that defined "movement" in terms of tension and resolution. The cool thing about looping (and all the various repetitive, non-harmonic world musics this theory implicitly ignores) is that you have motion WITHOUT tension and resolution. The motion doesn't go away just because you're not playing at the moment. The loop is still moving. And once you've abandoned the idea of tension/resolution, you can abandon it for the "walking", too. You can just play, without setting up clear goals. I was just thinking of the music of Edgar Varese. He often composed for just percussion, or percussion and brass/woodwinds. One of my favorites is a percussion/horn piece that just comes in waves and waves of chaotic sound. It's a composed loop. I'm almost certain he was trying to simulate the effect of a migraine headache. That's just what it sounds like to me. Hurts like hell to listen to. > >Technology gives us new instruments that make repetition easier. It also > >lets us approach this concept in new ways that were never there before. > >This is what the various looping tools we discuss are all about, and what > >the attraction is. > > Very well, Kim! Yes, looping has obviously touched us all on some very deep level, as musicians. We should think about this philosophically, to try to understand our emotional reaction to this method of performance, composition, and improvisation. > >I think the question still remains from a few weeks ago. How did the > >technology driven approach get started? Who were the first ones to make > >tape loops? It seems there were quite a few people doing this by the mid to > >late sixties, but where did they get it from? I've heard that the first > >tape delays were done in radio stations, but I don't know who or when. And > >who were the early ones applying it to music? For that matter, did it > >really start with tape? Was there anything before that? Conlon Nancarrow was composing for player piano back in the 1940s, largely to develop repeating figures at a level of precision human musicians are simply incapable of performing. Edgar Varese used tape loops in his musique concrete performance for the 1951 World's Fair, although that was probably done manually with copying, cutting, and mixing. And there's an Erik Satie piano piece that specifies hours and hours of repetition, enough to make it nearly impossible to play. Hope I haven't muddied the waters even more. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. -Charles Fort dstagner@icarus.net From ???@??? Mon Oct 07 10:03:16 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 7 01:00:15 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAAbm-0003W2-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 01:00:14 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAAbn-0002Zk-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 01:00:15 -0700 Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 09:55:38 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Amplifiers In-Reply-To: <199610042124.RAA04452@octopus.ab.platinum.com> Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"BfjIg.A.wXC.AeLWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/384 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 01:00:15 -0700 X-UIDL: 2e3295f4687051e6df28a9fea0a80b42 I do personnaly use 2 amplifiers (oK, you wanted a stereo one). But still i'l alttle on a budget (it is still not tomorroiw i'd get an Eventide that no one is talking about, but it must be an incredible looping system, with its ability to follow the playing envloppe) but I use two KB300 of peavey. They are quite good. Not easy to break, have comfortable power (150 w) an 15' speaker) I plugged mys guitar synth in as well as my guitar preamp through speaker emulation. It is working well. I had them used for 400 bucks each but I guess they must be at a lower price by your place. Olivier From ???@??? Mon Oct 07 10:03:18 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 7 01:12:34 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAAni-0003oM-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 01:12:34 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAAnj-0002fg-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 01:12:35 -0700 Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 10:10:56 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: The beginning.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"EfHftC.A.leC.ZsLWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/385 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 01:12:35 -0700 X-UIDL: 8d5a7783bf23e3350c82e3b711ada87c For this i have clues. I think it did ot ONLY started with tapes. I saw a video about composers in france in the beginning of the sixties, they had a whole laboratory that was to grow into an experimental plublic funded center od research on music and technologie with VERY state of the art technologie (like a using a Cray computer, wich far is from my Mac for the moment). They had an old analog sequencer that weighted 200 Kg I think, and they did loops with.... Vinyls! They had old black records with many looped on it. The record did not play from beginning to end but had each track(drill?) with a loop. Long ones on the beginning of the record, little ones in the end. They stacked up to 8 phono at a time... Hell I don't remember the name of this thinb Boulez set in motion it was like Centre d'etude et de recherche musicale or something... Olivier From ???@??? Mon Oct 07 10:03:20 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 7 01:27:01 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAB1g-00042x-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 01:27:00 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAB1g-0002lg-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 01:27:00 -0700 Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 10:25:45 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: roots In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"3zlL8C.A.akC.Q6LWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/386 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 01:27:00 -0700 X-UIDL: ff9135604498c59e0e684ac0748e18db Dave wondered: "Hope I haven't muddied the waters even more." Of course you did, and all hope so! Things clear as crystal are sterile and don't support any creativity.. Let us get things inclear, muddy, and trouble. It gives richness... Olivier From ???@??? Mon Oct 07 10:03:42 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 7 09:19:07 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAIOY-00006b-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 09:19:06 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAIOZ-0003LS-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 09:19:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199610071610.JAA08146@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Re: Details, details Date: Mon, 7 Oct 96 09:15:31 -0000 x-sender: attix@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Tom Attix* To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"XRRRHC.A.n_C.WtSWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/389 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 09:19:07 -0700 X-UIDL: 00d461ac6f100d4bbef40e9998d323e7 > If you're scratching your head wondering what "the big one" is, try >the "view attachments" command on your mailreader. (Perhaps some kind >sould out there can re-post the index to the list in a manner not >requiring an attachment command.) Here ya go... WORLD-WIDE INDEX OF LOOP ARTISTS Version 1.0 Edited and assembled by Andre LaFosse from submissions on the Looper's Delight Internet Mailing List Oct. 28 through October 4, 1996 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- This index was assembled on a volunteer basis for a number of reasons: To provide some information regarding who was using looping, where it was being done, what gear was being used in the process, and what sorts of music it was utilized for; and hopefully, to allow the handful of loopists in the world to better communicate with one another about their craft. (With regards to this last endeavor, contact information in the index has generally only been provided when it is different from the preliminary address and e-mail data). Thanks are due to Kim Flint for instigating the Looper's Delight web site and mailing list (and for translating this list into HTML format). Also due thanks are the members of the StickWire web page, whose efforts at facilitating communication between fringe musicians helped to provide the inspiration for this list. Finally, thanks to the musicians profiled below who were willing to share some insights into themselves and their art. --Andre LaFosse ------------------------------------------------------------------------- NAME Jonathan Brainin AGE 35 ADDRESS 281 Forest Rd, South Orange, NJ PHONE 201/761-0905 E-MAIL jbrainin@interactive.net (primary) or jbrainin@easyway.net URL none as of yet PRIMARY INSTRUMENT: Parker Fly guitar, 12 string Warr Guitar PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: 2 Jamman (expanded to 32 seconds), Eventide GTR 4000 (10 seconds mono, 5 seconds stereo), Cakewalk Pro 5.0 with Audiomedia III soundcard and 3.1 gig hard drive (REALLY long loops) INFLUENCES: Fripp, Sylvian, Torn, Brooks, CRI record label, Eno (both B. and R.), Trey Gunn, Esquivel, Muddy Waters MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: Obscure rock, ambient, experimental, blues, and perhaps eventually Free ambient blues. ENSEMBLES: None at present AVAILABLE RECORDINGS: Writing material now, hope to start recording by January, 1997. PERSONAL STATEMENT: I've been a guitarist for over twenty years, but have only begun to loop within the last year or so. My looping style is beginning to emerge but varies wildly by the moment and by my mood. I don't think I've broken any new ground yet but I have managed, inadvertently, to replicate to sounds and styles of several of those listed as influences above. I'm looking for people to collaborate or just improvise with. ---------------------- NAME Joe Cavaleri AGE 44 ADDRESS Simi Valley, California Republic PHONE (805) 526-7141 E-MAIL cavaleri@simi-valley.ate.slb.com URL N/A PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR Guitar,Volume Pedal,JamMan,Vortex,Quadraverb,Mixer. INFLUENCES 1960's AM Radio - This ranges from early rock & roll through motown ect., Im's sure, on at least a subliminal level, TV and movie music such as Carl Stalling,Bernard Herman, and many others. The minimalist movment - Steve Riech, Phillip Glass,ect. Guitar specific: The music of the Doors, King Crimson-Robert Frip, Alan Holdsworth, Bill Frisell,and of course Mr. Torn. Many others!! MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION Hard to tell. Ambient? Experimental? -- No Age? ENSEMBLES None at this time AVAILABLE RECORDINGS None commercially available PERSONAL STATEMENT Hi all. First off I would like to thank all the people involved in giving this segment of the musical community the opportunity to participate in such a project. It should be a very interesting experience. I have been playing guitar for a little over 20yrs. I kind of started late but what the heck! In that time I've had the good fortune to play in several different styles of music. Everything from a wedding type band, a college jazz band, to playing with a Polynesian band.(complete with coconut clad dancers!!) I am also attempting to become more politically aware. As Daniel Webster said. Good intentions will be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say the the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. ------------------ NAME: Chris Chovit AGE: 27 ADDRESS: 1771 Arteique Rd., Topanga, CA 90290 PHONE: (310) 455-0987 E-MAIL: cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov URL: N/A PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR (or methodology for non-electronic loopists): Lexicon Jam Man, Oberheim Echoplex, MIDI sequencing INFLUENCES: funk (JB's, p-funk, other early 70's); reggae (marley, a. pablo & other dub); jazz (j. smith, m. davis, "soul" jazz, some 70's fusion); rock (floyd, crimson, who, hendrix, zappa, led zep, p. gabriel, d. sylvian, etc.); ambient / minimal (s. reich, t. reiley, eno, environments); electronic (70's electronic, some modern techno-ambient); misc. (N. Indian classical, african/blues) MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: Main instrument: guitar (esp. electric) Secondary instruments: electric bass, piano, organ, clav, synths, tabla, drum programming ENSEMBLES: I have been involved in various "garage" bands and experimental recording efforts. I am currently practicing with a funk/fusion drummer and a multi-instrumentalist with similar influences. PERSONAL STATEMENT: I am interested in working (alone and/or with others) to create music, being a fusion of my/our influences, in a recording and/or performance format, and to develop and optimize the instruments and tools for doing this. I am always interested in talking shop, and meeting new people with similar interests -- (If you live in the LA area -- give me a call or drop an e-note!) I just moved and am currently in the process of setting up a new studio space. Related interests include: live-sound reinforcement, recording/engineering/performance ideas & techniques, IDL & Opcode MAX programming, WWW as a medium for real-time mulitmedia broadcast, multichannel audio formats, electric guitars and related amps/effects, learning how to use time wisely. ---------------- NAME: Jon Durant AGE: 32 ADDRESS: Alchemy Records, 61 Surrey Dr. Cohasset, MA 02025 PHONE: 617-383-0086 E-MAIL: 74074.1316@compuserve.com URL:http://www.musicpro.com/alchemy/ PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: Lexicon JamMan (2), Vortex, LXP-15II INFLUENCES: Torn, Fripp, Rypdal, Garbarek, Weber MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: ambient/jazz/rock crossover AVAILABLE RECORDINGS: Three If By Air (Alchemy Records), new CD due in February. PERSONAL STATEMENT Making music such as this is an intensely personal experience. I find that my music is very anti-social: it is best absorbed individually, in a quiet environment. The music is designed to be open to one's personal interpretation, where one person may see beauty, another may be horrified. One listener may picture a quiet walk along a beach in late October, while another may envision a trek across a scorching desert. Both visions are correct. ------------------------- NAME: Kim Flint AGE: 26 ADDRESS: PO Box 40240, Berkeley, CA 94704 E-MAIL: kflint@annihilist.com URL: http://www.annihilist.com/ PRIMARY INSTRUMENT: guitar PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: Echoplex digital pro's Klein custom guitar, Fernandes Sustainer Guitar, the Trusty Old Aria Pro II E-Bow, assorted pedals Mesa Boogie Triaxis Rocktron Intellifex Mesa Boogie Simulclass 2:90 drum machines, sequencers, hopefully more soundsources soon INFLUENCES: (in chronological order) John Denver, The Beatles, AC/DC, Iron Maiden, Metallica, Exodus, Rush, Steve Vai, Al DiMeola, Queensryche, Michael Hedges, John McLaughlin, Tuck Andress, The Beatles again, The Doors, Hank Garland, Jane's Addiction, Miles Davis, Thelonius Monk, John Coltrane, Sonic Youth, George Clinton, Bootsy Collins, Parliament-Funkadelic, Primus, Voivod, The Limbomaniacs, Louis Armstrong, Jelly Roll Morton, Fats Waller, Coleman Hawkins, Frank Zappa, Prince, Public Enemy, Ministry, Skinny Puppy, Ornette Coleman, Don Cherry, Bill Laswell, Tom Waits, Music of the Ewe people in West Africa, C.K Ladzekpo, Ravi Shankar/Indian classical music, Mr. Bungle, Pharoh Sanders, Buckethead, Trent Reznor, Terry Date (production for Pantera, White Zombie), The Orb, Future Sound of London, David Torn, Underworld, Dr. Dre MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: heavy-industrial-ambient-jazz-experimental-techno-improv ENSEMBLES: none currently AVAILABLE RECORDINGS: none PERSONAL STATEMENT: I started playing guitar when I was seven because I liked John Denver and wanted to play his songs. Things generally went downhill from there. As an adolescent, the powers that be decided I was too good at science and mathematics to waste my life as a musician; I was to have a Career as a Scientist or Engineer or Doctor or some such Professional, and music was to be a Hobby. So despite my obvious interest in music, I was tracked into engineering. I ultimately overcame boredom, despair, hatred-of-everything, etc. and earned a degree in Electronics Engineering from UC Berkeley. Nevertheless, I managed to add a strong jazz foundation to my rock and fusion vocabulary, and began moving into much more experimental territory. After graduating I went on to work for the Gibson Guitar company, designing new musical instrument technologies at the infamous G-WIZ labs R&D facility. That is where I first encountered Matthias Grob, where we developed the Echoplex Digital Pro, and where I became a full on looping fanatic. I've moved on from there, to the lucrative multimedia frontier in the silly-con valley, but I've maintained my interests in the loop world by creating the Looper's Delight mailing list and web site. I hope to have my hands deep in the next generation of looping instruments as well. I like creating music with a strong rhythmic foundation. Darkness, anger, tension, aggression, power, moodiness, and chaos are themes I have the most attraction to. I'm currently developing my style and gear collection into a sort of improvised ambient-techno-artrock-jungle-deathmetal-hiphop something or other. I still like to play jazz once in a while, and lately there has been a bluesy/country-ish twang coming from god knows where. Now if I only had some free time..... -------------------- Name: Bryan Helm Age: 38 Address: Longmont, Colorado Phone: 303-684-9069 e-mail: sarajanes@mdcs.com or ambient@adnc.com web-page: http://www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html Primary Looping Gear: Electro-Harmonix 16 Second Digital Delay Lexicon Jamman 32 second Delay-Looper Mackie 1202 mixer Alesis Microverb Roland TR-505 drum machine Live Sound: Korg DW-8000 synthesizer AB 200 W Stereo Amp 6 string electric guitar 2 JBL 4311 voice Studio Monitors Influences: Brian Eno Jade Warrior Robert Fripp Gentle Giant Wendy Carlos Split Enz Mike Oldfield XTC Harry Nillson Jan Garabek Peter Gabriel Stockhausen Miles Davis Glenn Gould Nick Drake Carl Stalling Steve Hillage Musical Style: An equal amount of layered ambient loops, and textured rhythm oriented loops, with and without solo counterpoint via: Primary Instrument(s) keyboard,guitar, or voice. Ensembles: Cloud Silence 79-81 Ample Parking 81-84 Nelson & Helm 84-85 League of Crafty Guitarists 85 Dozey Lumps 88-91 Bindlestiff 91-present Available Recordings: Cassette only: "The Weight of The Paper" 100 min. "Musing Moon and Solemn Sun" 100 min. "Coincidences" 60 min. "Out of A Clear Blue Sky" 90 min. The latest. These and Bindlestiff tapes available only through Studio Seventeen Productions On CD: "Robert Fripp and The League of Crafty Guitarists Live!" available from Possible Productions at: PossProd@aol.com Contact Info: To request a current catalog: Studio Seventeen Productions P.O.Box 461363 Escondido, CA 92046 or e-mail to... ambient@adnc.com or look and listen at.... http://www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html direct comments to me at.... sarajanes@mdcs.com Personal Statement: No one in my family played an instrument of any kind but they loved to play records. My dad liked Mississippi Delta blues, and jazz, and rock up to Hendrix. My mom liked Rachmaninoff and American country music.Into this world of influences, and others, in 1968 came Walter Carlos's "Switched on Bach". From the age of ten I wanted to hear any new sound you could make with anything,period. Electronic, acoustic, if it made a noise, I wanted to tweak it till it coughed up the sound. Having dropped out of college( a B+ in choir, an F in theory) I got a guitar/amp,a reel to reel, and effects including a Roland Space-Echo to combat my friend's Echo-Plex. That was 1978 and I've been repeating signals via analog and digital means ever since. True looping started in late 1979 with 2 half tracks at 7 and 1/2 ips. Since then I've enjoyed making some of the most relaxing and annoying "music" that I can manage on a limited budget. My wife of 15 years has some of the more tolerant ears on the planet, and both my boys ages 7 and 12, think I'm crazy. The tapes prove this I'm told. Looping can produce some of the most delicate and powerful textures available in modern music. The frame of mind generated by having to construct live loops in performance (particularly without an "Undo" function) is one of concentrated bliss for me.Looping is a solitary pursuit to a lot of its explorers, so I don't know how interactive many of them will choose to be with this forum. Whatever happens...I'll be looping and glad to talk with anyone else who loops, about... whatever. Bryan Helm ------------------ Name: George Henry Age: 42 Address: 12870 East Daybreak Court, Jacksonville, FL 32246 Phone: (904)221-6438 E-Mail: windharp@fcol.com URL: None presently; will announce when I get one. Primary Looping Gear: I use a Roland VG-8, which provides a maximum delay of 1023 ms; and a crude audio editor that came bundled with a sound card. I would like to acquire PC-based audio software, and possibly a dedicated looping instrument as well. Influences: Too numerous, eclectic, and wide-ranging to list (seriously). Musical Style / Concentration: I am working toward an integration of freely flowing improvisation with discretely composed (i.e. sequenced) musical parts. Two different parts of my brain know how to make music in their own separate ways. I'm hoping for interesting results when I get them working well together. From ???@??? Mon Oct 07 10:03:42 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 7 09:19:07 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAIOY-00006b-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 09:19:06 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAIOZ-0003LS-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 09:19:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199610071610.JAA08146@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Re: Details, details Date: Mon, 7 Oct 96 09:15:31 -0000 x-sender: attix@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Tom Attix* To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"XRRRHC.A.n_C.WtSWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/389 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 09:19:07 -0700 X-UIDL: 00d461ac6f100d4bbef40e9998d323e7 If I wanted to find my music in a store, I'd probably look in the "ambient" category. Ensembles: Cirrus Susurrus Personnel / primary instruments: George Henry - Chapman Stick and Roland VG-8 Cynthia Henry - Zendrum Available Recordings: None; working on a demo. Personal Statement: I've been interested in looping since hearing "Frippertronics" and some Steve Reich pieces a few years back. Cindy and I have been avid music fans since childhood. I've played guitar since I was 14, and Cindy used to play the flute. We have lately adopted the notion that we would like to create and publicize our own musical expressions. A rough translation from Latin of "Cirrus Susurrus" is "Whispering Wisps" ... not intended to give the false impression that our music is always subtle and unobtrusive. ------------------ NAME Pat Hickey AGE 37 ADDRESS Clearwater, Florida, USA PHONE 813 669 6702 E-MAIL brzrkr@nielsenmedia.com URL none at present PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR 1978 B.C.Rich Mockingbird or 1964 Fender Jaguar Art SGX/Nitro Preamp/Effects with X-15 Ultrafoot controller JamMan A-B Systems 75w amp Bullfrog 12in/horn combo cab Just got a vortex, I'll put it in there somewhere. Am unhappy with the lack of control over what does/not go to loop, so want to add a mixer or patcher to setup. I'd *really* like computer control of effects setups, so I can choose one from a menu. Ditto for sequencing loop segments, so I can concentrate on playing. INFLUENCES I'm an old rocker, stuck in "Progressive" era. Interests include jazz, classical, ambient - no rap or country. Robert Fripp a big influence. Saw Frippertronics several times, even bought two Tascam 3340s to do same myself (they are for sale, since the JamMan does this in a half-height rack slot!). Torn a big influence. Many, many, many other influences, from Al DiMeola to Bella Fleck with many side trips (so to speak). MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION Rock/fusion/ambient. ENSEMBLES None at present. AVAILABLE RECORDINGS None at present. PERSONAL STATEMENT I'm a EE/CS Unix hacker who would love the opportunity (as mentioned on LoopersDelight) to hack audio toys, should the grassroots get deep enough. I have no audio experience, tho. If any of you come down Clearwater way, look me up. ------------------ NAME - Dan Howarth AGE - 20 years ADDRESS - Tucon, Arizona E-MAIL - howarth@u.arizona.edu URL - http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR - Chapman Stick, Digitech Studio Quad, Morley PDWs, 4 and 8 second Digitech Time Machines. INFLUENCES - Robert Fripp, Trey Gunn, 311, Jan Garbarek MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION - everything the four above influences can make you think of... --------------------- NAME: l.collier hyams AGE: 30 ADDRESS: 300 Second St. #3, Troy NY 12180 PHONE: 518-272-8409 E-MAIL: HYAMSL@RPI.EDU URL: http://www.nsula.edu/~hyams/ PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR - jamdude, effectron II, tape looper(gibson), hyperprism/mac INFLUENCES - stuart copland and the other cops, yes circa 74ish to 78, j.r.r.tolkein, bruce lee, bauhaus w/ Itten, Klee, Maholly-Nagy, Thai music, West African music, skanky funk and udderriddims, reggae from bob/steel pulse/early black uhuru. MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION - world music styles (riddimik) atmospheric ENSEMBLES - collier hyams groupo uno, international dub corps, trousers AVAILABLE RECORDINGS - collier hyams' "peer", idc's "wonder where you are" PERSONAL STATEMENT - use the tools that work. ignore the people that say you can't. -------------------- NAME: Ted R. Killian AGE: 43 ADDRESS: Goleta, California PHONE: (805) 685-4827 E-MAIL: killinfo@aol.com URL: not yet PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: (Formerly) 2 EH 16-Second Digital Delays and a JamMan, (currently) a pair of Oberheims. INFLUENCES: I was inspired in 1971 by a guitar playing friend-of-a-friend who had rigged up a pair of reel-to-reel recorders with a loop of tape between them, and later by the 1973-4 recordings of Robert Fripp and Brian Eno. Other significant looping influences along the way in addition to (Fripp/Eno) are: Paul Dresher, Steve Tibbets, Bill Frissell, David Torn, Adrian Belew, Nels Cline, Phil Keaggy, etc. MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: Electroacousticabstractexpressionistjazzfolknoise(?) Guitartorture(?) New music(?) I can also do a pretty mean Leo Kottkesqe thing on the side. ENSEMBLES: April Fools (with Josef Woodard), Brain Trust (with Jim Connolly and Garren Horgen), Jim Connolly Group (with Jim Connolly, Jeff Kaiser and Richard Dunlap), Ted Killian Group (with Richard Dunlap and master percussionist/CMP recording artist John Bergamo). AVAILABLE RECORDINGS: None (all out-of-print vanity stuff). PERSONAL STATEMENT: I first took up the guitar in 1964 at age 10. I first seriously took up "looping" on a regular and exclusive basis nearly twenty years later. I have been an active performer/pioneer in the Ventura and Santa Barbara (CA) "new music" scenes for several years. On ocassion, I have ventured down to L.A. for appearances at various festivals, Santa Monica's "Alligator Lounge" and on radio station KPFK. Mostly, I perform as a self-contained "solo" but have been increasingly involved in doing the "loop thing" in an improvisational ensemble context (a much more challenging task since I have never been in a "band" in the traditional sense of the word.). I suppose that since what we do is heavily influenced by one technique and its related technologies (looping) it might seem that we are all merely following in the perceived "wakes" of the more visible "giants" in the field (who have gone before us and have been prominently recorded and marketed). Like many of the rest of you, I hope to make my own artistic contributions (visible or not) to the endeavor of making music with whatever convenient tools and techniques present themselves (looping being just one). I am thankful for the odd sense of community I feel developing here. ------------------- NAME: Andre LaFosse AGE: 22 ADDRESS: California Institute of the Arts, Box CO-17, Valencia, CA 91355 PHONE: (805) 253-1780 E-MAIL: altruist@shoko.calarts.edu, alafosse@indy1.calarts.edu PRIMARY INSTRUMENT: Electric guitar, also sequencing and occasional guitar synthesizer PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: Oberheim Echoplex Digital Pro (108 second configuration) Lexicon Vortex Alesis QuadraVerb GT Korg O3R/W Synth module (driven via Roland GR-50 guitar interface, utilizing internal delay lines for looping) INFLUENCES: Miroslav Tadic, Allan Holdsworth, Ani Difranco, David Torn, Skinny Puppy, Robert Fripp, Santiago Vazquez, Jimi Hendrix, Miles Davis, Wadada Leo Smith, David Gilmour, John McLaughlin, and many others. MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: My main focus is to find my own music to play, which I haven't completely found in any one given genre. Towards that end (and in spite of my disdain for segregation of musical "types"), some areas I have studied or worked in could be classified as: Progressive rock, Industrial, Free jazz, Common Practice and Contemporary Classical, Ambient, Funk, European folk, Fusion, Javanese Gamelan, and miscellaneous areas of experimental (and non-experimental) work. AVAILABLE RECORDINGS: _The Prodigal Son Comes Clean_ (1996 independent cassette, available for free upon request) PERSONAL STATEMENT: If I were restricted for the rest of my days to playing only a straight guitar direct into an unprocessed amp, I'd probably be fine with that. Nonetheless, my efforts at finding a voice on the instrument have led me through various experiments with effects processing, an uneasy relationship with guitar synthesis, and more recently (and probably most successfully) an exploration of looping as a real-time musical tool. One of the main thrusts of my work over the last several years has been to isolate my "rig" down to two hands, a guitar, an amp, and a patch cord, and to work with those basic elements to the fullest possible extent. In this way, looping strikes me as perhaps the most powerful means of electronically augmenting the guitar. Unlike MIDI guitar or many elaborate processing signal paths, it allows the finest details of one's own playing, as opposed to a factory preset on a processor or synth module, to enter directly into the musical picture. I'm currently enrolled in my final year in the Multi-Focus Guitar program at Cal Arts. My hopes for post-graduation life are to try and find other artists with similar interests and ambitions, and to continue to make music that feels real to me. ----------------- NAME: Todd Madson AGE: 33 ADDRESS: 3953 Bryant Avenue South #1, Minneapolis, MN 55409 PHONE: (612) 827-7812 (612) 884-7951 (Images at Twilight BBS) E-MAIL: todd.madson@lasermaster.com -or- crash@waste.org URL: http://www.waste.org/~crash/index.html PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR (or methodology for non-electronic loopists): Lexicon Vortex, ART SGE (v1.8), Boss DD-3 delay, Ibanez Swell Flanger. Charvel, Yamaha, and Heartfield guitars, Kawai, Korg and Casio synths, looped Roland human rhythm composer, Mesa Boogie Studio Preamp, Roland JC-120, etc. all hooked up to the mighty (but tiny) MADSOUND studio - the 4-track that could. INFLUENCES: Allan Holdsworth, John Goodsall, John McLaughlin, David Torn, Steve Tibbets, Terje Rypdal, Edgar Froese (as a guitarist), Eric Johnson, Buckethead, Shawn Lane, Wayne Shorter, Percy Jones, Kit Watkins, Cypher7, Steve Hillage, Steve Hackett, Steve Morse, etc. You name it. Music with lots of grandeur and drama. MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: Heavy aggressive super ambient energy prog with an emphasis on angular arpeggiated chordal structures, high energy solos and eerie ambient pads. ENSEMBLES: Crash, Hydravian, Alien Spore Bomb [solo work moniker] AVAILABLE RECORDINGS: Contact me for information regarding demos. Also, samples of my work is available on my web page. PERSONAL STATEMENT: My music tends to fill a void for my own listening as I typically like excessive amounts of everything I like - commercial music sometimes doesn't provide this vicarious thrill. It allows me to explore areas that most bands wouldn't bother dealing with. I like exploring the area between consonance, dissonance, energy, melody and duration. Hopefully my music might inspire someone to want to pick up an instrument of their own and try their hand at writing, or maybe fill them with a good feeling that you can do odd music on your own terms and get away with it without having to compromise to commercial demands. ToddM 02Oct96 ~~~~~~~ ----------------------- NAME: MALHOMME, Olivier AGE: 29 ADDRESS: Unité d¹Oncologie Moleculaire/ Institut Pasteur de lille 1 rue Calmette B.P. 245 59 019 Lille cedex France PHONE: 20 87 77 29 or 20 07 26 89 E-MAIL: malhomme@infobiogen.fr URL: none PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: A poor ART sge with 2 incredible seconds (hum!), seconded with a midi delay via Cubase (and a Roland gr-50). Otherwise, organic real loops: no delay, I play everything on a multi-tracker (akai mg14d), and mix then. INFLUENCES: This one is gonna be tough. From time order: Old renaissance music, then Bach Handel, Scarlatti D., then jump to Debussy, Stravinski, Bartok, Ravel, then to Sylvian, King Crimson, K. Bush, P. Gabriel, Nyman and Glass, NIN,T. Heads. But I should add books, films, that are as influencial....Like the maltese falcon, any films from J.Cassavetes, or Trust me from Hal Hartley, or Abel Ferrara.. And Lewis Caroll, and Kundera OK let's just stop here.... MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: My real area of concentration is being able to reach Music (with capital M) and to keep an experimental side in it. That doen¹t explain anything, I know.... ENSEMBLES: Panama (sort of rock group, just for the record) The Red Point (this thing got a KC flavour sometime...) Olivier Malhomme (isn¹t it simple) actually, the ballets I wrote for a contenporary dancing company here Olivier Malhomme (again): songs with more of a meditative feel. AVAILABLE RECORDINGS: in progress. Nothing is finished so far.... so, keep tuned.. PERSONAL STATEMENT: I don¹t know what to add... -------------- NAME: Matthias AGE: 1959 ADDRESS: Salvador, Brasil PHONE: 0055 71 235 54 94 E-MAIL: Matthias@bahianet.com.br URL - PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: Echoplex PRIMARY INSTRUMENT: PARADIS guitar INFLUENCES: Pink Floyd, Vollenweider, Ryptal, Fripp MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: New Age? Ambient? ENSEMBLES: Many instant duos AVAILABLE RECORDINGS: "Musica AguArianA para viajar" PERSONAL STATEMENT Well, I invented the Echoplex because I needed Multiply, Undo, BrotherSync to play long rhythmical loops, and in duos. ------------------ NAME: Matt McCabe AGE: 25 ADDRESS: 2255 E. 8th St., Chico, CA 95928 PHONE: 916.345.7221 E-MAIL: finley@ecst.csuchico.edu URL: http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~finley/kingnever.html PRIMARY INSTRUMENT: guitar PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: Lexicon JamMan and Vortex, Digitech GSP-2101, Alesis QuadraVerb, and Rane SM-82. INFLUENCES: Fripp, Torn, Summers, Belew, West-Oram, Bowie, Eno, Sylvian, etc. MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: modern rock with progressive/ambient/industrial/experimental textures. ENSEMBLES: King Never, Able Cain. AVAILABLE RECORDINGS: King Never "Ambient Guitar Noise: Volume 1, Able Cain "Able Cain." PERSONAL STATEMENT: lemme think about it!!! ------------------- NAME: Doug Michael AGE: 33 ADDRESS: California E-MAIL: dmic27@ccnet.com URL: http://www.ccnet.com/~dmic27 PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR : I use a Roland DEP-5 which has a maximum delay time at 2000ms. I also have access to the old Electro-Harmonix 16 second delay. INFLUENCES : Torn, Holdsworth, Stockhausen, Davidovsky, Zappa MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION : Electro-Acoustic music, Computer Music, Jazz/Rock & Improvised music. ENSEMBLES : Doug Michael & The Outer Darkness (Trio:Guitar,Bass,Drums) Also solo music AVAILABLE RECORDINGS : I have three cassette releases; "Doug Michael & The Outer Darkness" "Silent Decay" "Embers" Available at http://www.ccnet.com/~dmic27 PERSONAL STATEMENT : My name is Doug Michael and I'm a composer/guitarist. I have three areas of musical interest at the moment - 1. Electro-Acoustic Music 2. Solo Music ala Torn 3. Electric Power Trio Music (with live players) I am starting my own record company and hope to have a cd release out by next year. I am on a constant quest to compose and create new music. Thanks to the rapid developing technology in music and computers, things are now possible in the music making process that were only dreams a few years ago. It's a great time to be alive. --------------------- NAME: Jonathan Morris AGE: 25 ADDRESS: 1003 Justin Ln, #2074, Austin, TX 78757, USA PHONE: (512) 454-9821 (work) E-MAIL: jonmor@moontower.com URL: none PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: Digitech RDS 7.6, ART Multiverb 2.0, Ensoniq mirage INFLUENCES: Robert Fripp, Brian Eno, Steve Reich, David Torn MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: Experimental instrumental electro-acoustic ENSEMBLES: just now forming an ensemble for live performance AVAILABLE RECORDINGS Chamber Works for Electric Guitar and Others (cassette only) ----------------------------- NAME: Steve Murrell AGE: 33 ADDRESS: 9091 Yorkshire Dr., Saline, MI 48176 PHONE: (313) 429-3161 E-MAIL: smurrell@ford.com PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: Lexicon JamMan (32 sec), Digitech Valve F/X PRIMARY INSTRUMENT: Chapman Grand Stick INFLUENCES: Robert Fripp/KC, Eno, Mick Karn, Terje Rypdal, Steve Reich, etc. MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: Progressive Jazz Rock Techno-Industrial Fusion ENSEMBLES: Stick/Drummer Duo (soon to add a guitarist) PERSONAL STATEMENT: Concerning music, I would currently consider myself a passionate hobbyist. -------------------------- Name: David Cooper Orton Age: 41 E-Mail: david.orton@bl.uk URL: http://subnet.virtual-pc.com/~or387751/ Primary Looping Gear: Lexicon JamMan and Ibanez digital delay footpedal with with `hold' facility From ???@??? Mon Oct 07 10:03:42 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 7 09:19:07 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAIOY-00006b-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 09:19:06 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAIOZ-0003LS-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 09:19:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199610071610.JAA08146@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Re: Details, details Date: Mon, 7 Oct 96 09:15:31 -0000 x-sender: attix@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Tom Attix* To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Resent-Message-ID: <"XRRRHC.A.n_C.WtSWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/389 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 09:19:07 -0700 X-UIDL: 00d461ac6f100d4bbef40e9998d323e7 Influences: I'm not sure that after 25 years of playing there's a transparrently obvious link between how I sound and other peoples' music, but Peter Green and Pat Metheny are probably central sources of inspiration, and then `the usual suspects' in no order - Eno/Fripp, Torn, Frisell, Brook, Reich, Barber, Part, Rypdal, Hedges etc plus others less directly related to this area - Zappa, maybe? (or who I forget just now) Musical Style: Ambient is so obvious, I suppose it should go in. At the moment most of what I'm doing is forming v e r y s l o w e-bow based drones with clean-tone guitar doing ethereal wot-nots over the top. Hey - I don't know, `I just do it', right?! There's a 20 second .wav file on my Web site which is a general intro. I aim to hook the JamMan to my drum machine and see what introducing a bit more of a pulse sounds like, maybe even this year... I've yet to try looping `live' (my other activites include a jazz duo, and swing/r'n'b/blues bands of `selective' performance schedules... Available Recordings: Non stictly commercial, although I have an hour's worth of material (more, for those of a strong constituion) titled `The Comfort of Strange Aires' which I can provide for a modest fee - say 5 pounds sterling or equivalent. ----------------------- NAME Michael Peters AGE 42 ADDRESS Cologne, Germany E-MAIL 100041.247@compuserve.com URL http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters PRIMARY INSTRUMENT Guitars PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR Paradis Loop Delay INFLUENCES Eno, Fripp & Guitar Craft, Sylvian, Torn, Frith MUSICAL STYLE Experimental Ambient Minimalist ENSEMBLES Trio GitarriStick, Camera Obscura AVAILABLE RECORDINGS Various cassettes PERSONAL STATEMENT I don't consider myself as a guitarist who uses loops to create a background for solos (although this does happen in some of my pieces). Guitar happens to be my primary instrument, and I compose Guitar Craft influenced pieces for my acoustic ensemble, but in my solo work, I often use the electric guitar to create improvised soundscapes which don't sound like guitar music at all. I've always been fascinated by unusual sounds and unusual musical structures (this is why I'm currently experimenting with environmental sounds and computer generated algorithmic music). I'm dreaming of creating a magical music which is so strange that it could come from another planet. (There are probably thousands of music making civilisations in this galaxy. What does their music sound like?) -Michael --------------------------- NAME: Paul Poplawski, Ph.D. AGE: 47 ADDRESS: 200 Unami Trail Newark, DE 19711 PHONE: 302/737-8738 E-MAIL: Paulpop@ssnet.com PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: tape, Jamman INFLUENCES Fripp, Eno, Torn, Kraftwerk, McLaughlin, Glass, Riley, Reich MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: improvisational musipeautics PERSONAL STATEMENT: I have played in the improvisational "performance art" group, "Dick Uranus" for the past 20 years. In that time we have amassed thousands of hours of tape that remains in our archive. We utilize found and purchased musical elements and "looping" as it is currently considered was a method from the beginning. I am currently performing publically in the Newark, DE area with the group "Accidents will Happen" which is a totally improvised ensemble utilizing guitar, bass and other devices as input elements into various systems for further treatment. I am not purposely being cute here ... though all of this at times sounds so highminded ... I like to have a sense of humor about these things ... ---------------- NAME: Jim Poppen AGE: 26 ADDRESS: San Francisco, CA E-MAIL: ibex@ix.netcom.com PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: Oberheim Echoplex Digital Pro (198 seconds) INFLUENCES: The usual, such as Robert Fripp, Bill Frisell, and Steve Reich, and the not so usual, such as The Grateful Dead and The Red House Painters. MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: As far as music I play that has room for looping ideas, let's say "Guitar Oriented Ambient Pop", but I am working on throwing in more psychedelia and general weirdness. Thanks to David Torn for that motivation. ENSEMBLES: I am currently writing/recording in my spare bedroom with a long time friend/bassist, Seth Solomonow. PERSONAL STATEMENT: My first taste of looping was fed care of The Beatles song, "#9", when I was maybe 7 years old. (It freaked me out, but I still listened). I got into drumming first, and progressed onto guitar at age 14 because my Dad was a guitarist, and I figured I could get free stuff from him (wrong). Heard King Krimson's "Discipline" at 15, and was hooked. Since then, I can honestly say that I have listened to, been influenced by, and liked all genres of music, as long as I could hear some sort of "quality". Any talk of looping gets me giddy, perplexed, and thrilled, all at the same time. ------------------- NAME: Teed Rockwell AGE: 45 ADDRESS: 2419A Tenth St. Berkeley CA 94710 PHONE: 510 548-8779 E-MAIL: 74164.3703@compuserve.com URL: ? PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: Oberheim Echoplex digital pro INFLUENCES: Les Paul, Ali Akbar Khan, Latin Harp music MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: Original World music ENSEMBLES: Geist (harp Chapman Stick(r), Percussion) Stick and Tabla playing Classical Indian Ragas, Solo with Echoplex. AVAILABLE RECORDINGS: With Geist: MOODS OF LIGHT, MORE LIGHT with Tablas: MUSIC FROM THE GANGES with Echoplex: coming soon.for Cassettes, send $10 plus $2 handling ($15 for MORE LIGHT CD) to above address. PERSONAL STATEMENT: The stick appealled to me because it enabled me to create rich textures. The Oberheim Echoplex makes those textures richer and more flexible than I ever thought possible. Am most interested in how to create compositional structures using the unique information processing abilities of the Echoplex. I am a stick player first, a looper second, using my own unique tuning that has all ten strings in the Guitar range. ---------------- NAME: Ken Rosser AGE: 34 ADDRESS: Eagle Rock, in Los Angeles, CA PHONE: (213) 255-0624 E-MAIL: krosser414@aol.com URL: none yet PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: Lexicon Vortex, LXP-5 (hoping to purchase JamMan soon) INFLUENCES: Miles Davis, John Abercrombie, David Torn, King Crimson, Egberto Gismonte, too many others to list MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: jazz, world music, funk, experimental ENSEMBLES: guitar/marimba duo Dual Force, sideman with Richard Sinclair, Don Preston, Brazilian group Axe, yet-unnamed improvisational guitar/bass/drum trio, many freelance jazz gigs. AVAILABLE RECORDINGS: available on request, but none commercially yet. PRIMARY INSTRUMENT: Guitar (electric and acoustic), Chinese Pipa PERSONAL STATEMENT: I am a relatively new convert to the world of looping, and I am very excited about adding it to my repetoire of techniques. My main love is in improvising music, not necessarily in conjunction with a specific tradtion, but not necessarily independent of them either. Another of my fascinations is in unusual combinations of instrumental textures (I have a classical composer friend working on a 'concierto' of sorts for electric guitar and wind quintet), so I definitely see exploring looping as a way of increasing my own textural vocabulary. I look forward to this forum not only as a means of getting information, but also to find some willing collaborators in the Southern California area. ------------------- NAME: dave stafford AGE: 38 ADDRESS: p.o. box 461363, escondido, ca 92046, u.s.a. EMAIL: ambient@adnc.com URL: general http://www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html bindlestiff http:\\www.adnc.com\web\ambient\bindlest.html dave stafford http:\\www.adnc.com\web\ambient\davestaf.html the dozey lumps http:\\www.adnc.com\web\ambient\thedozey.html GEAR: (RACK) oberheim echoplex digital pro (198 second configuration) w/FC pedal digitech TSR-24S (5 second loop) w/CC pedal digitech RDS-8000 (8 second loop) roland GP-16 w/CC pedal realtube preamp A-B power amp ground control midi pedal digitech whammy II pitch pedal (INPUT DEVICES) Ibanez Explorer Electric Guitar, New Standard Tuning Ovation 1867 Acoustic/Electric Guitar, New Standard Tuning (Energy Bow utilized with both above) Yamaha DX11 Synthesizer (studio only: Yamaha DX7S keyboard) Sony Discman INFLUENCES: the beatles adrian belew brian eno kate bush camel robert fripp king crimson the league of gentlemen the league of crafty guitarists early genesis gentle giant gryphon allan holdsworth johann sebastian bach peter hammill van der graaf generator roy harper nick harper the innocence mission ravi shankar ali akbar khan joni mitchell john dowland todd rundgren utopia split enz 10cc godley & creme tomaso albinoni neil young erik satie xtc frank zappa MUSICAL STYLE: ambient/semi-ambient (solo) ambient/semi-ambient/loud (bindlestiff) active acoustic guitar duo (the dozey lumps) ENSEMBLES: bindlestiff (ambient electronic group) the dozey lumps (acoustic guitar duo) AVAILABLE RECORDINGS: with the dozey lumps SSC3400 One Lump Or Two? with bindlestiff SSC3401 Christmas In England SSC3402 Quiet SSC3403 Loud SSC3404 The Night Sky SSC3405 Spiral Ginger SSC3406 Sleep It Off SSC3407 The Call Of The Mild SSC3408 Untitled (forthcoming October 1996) SSC3409 Untitled (forthcoming October 1996) dave stafford (solo) SSC1701 The Passion Of The Seeking SSC1702 Song With No End SSC1703 Alien Landscapes SSC1704 Dreams And Visions SSC1705 Voices SSC1706 Back To The Real SSC1707 Worldview I: The Dissolution Of Structure SSC1708 Worldview II: The Untenable Transition SSC1709 Worldview III: The Land Of Freedom SSC1710 Worldview IV: The Voice Of Music SSC1711 Universeview SSC1712 The Sea, The Sea SSC1713 Semiambient SSC1714 1 SPOOL DNA LOOPS 1 SSC1715 Charm Zone SSC1716 Pay Your Respects SSC1717 Other Memory (Remastered) SSC1718 Sand Island (Original Version) SSC1719 Other Memory/Sand Island (Remastered) CONTACT: studio seventeen productions p.o. box 461363 escondido, ca 92046 u.s.a. (619) 739-8346 ambient@adnc.com PERSONAL STATEMENT: as a solo performer, i generally attempt to approach performance with no preconceived ideas of content. in this way, if i am fortunate, music will make itself apparent. most of the music i create is wholly improvised, with perhaps a basic starting point that i've established. this leads to a myriad of possibilitities, with musical hazard at one end of the spectrum and musical music at the other...and anything in between might occur. there is nothing quite like beginning a performance with no set list, no parameters...anything goes, and anything can happen. "expectations are a prison..." the same ideas apply to my work within the electronic group bindlestiff, wherein the pieces have a basic structure but each individual performance is wholly improvised and different. for the most part, i tend to stay within the realms of the ambient, with occasional excursions towards the loud. the use of the energy bow as the primary source of sound really creates a special ambience all it's own, and by working specifically with the e-bow, the sounds and loops i create are distinctive and unique. in this way music can appear at it's most unexpected...surprising, delightful, frightening, overwhelming, gentle...but all with, hopefully, that quality we call "beauty". "the highest quality of attention we may give is love"...so we relax and allow the music to flow. ------------------- NAME: David Stagner AGE: 31 ADDRESS: 508 5th St #16, Coralville, IA 52241 PHONE: 319-337-8269 E-MAIL: dstagner@icarus.net URL: http://www.leepfrog.com/~dstagner PRIMARY LOOPING GEAR: Instruments: Yamaha acoustic guitar with Fishman transducer and Crown internal mic Aria Pro II electric guitar, Rat II distortion, BBE preamp Sony Discman CD player Looping devices: Lexicon JamMan with 8 secs memory Lexicon Vortex with expression pedal DeltaLabs Echotron with 4096ms delay, infinite repeat, feedback control Homemade 4-track mixer Sound sources go into the mixer. The Echotron is in the mixer's mono effects loop. Mixer outs 1 and 2 feed the Vortex. Vortex outputs come back into the mixer. Mixer outs 3 and 4 are split and feed the JamMan and a stereo line mixer. The JamMan's outputs also feed the stereo line mixer. Line mixer output is monitored on headphones, home stereo equipment, or recording equipment (Tascam PortaStudio or Sony stereo VCR for mastering). INFLUENCES: Looping: Robert Fripp, Brian Eno, David Torn, Roger Miller (Maximum Electric Piano, not "King of the Road" :), Bill Frisell, Adrian Belew, Henry Kaiser, Terminator X (Public Enemy) Guitar: Robert Fripp, Jimi Hendrix, Richard Thompson, Sonic Youth, Michael Hedges, David Torn, John Renbourn, Marc Ribot, Steve Howe, Henry Kaiser, Adrian Belew, Frank Zappa, Sonny Sharrock, Lou Reed/Velvet Underground Non-guitar non-looping music: Carl Stalling, Charles Ives, Conlon Nancarrow, Dr Demento, spy music, Ornette Coleman (harmolodic), Cecil Taylor and other free jazz, Celtic folk music, Indian classical, Balinese gamelan music, African pop, "filk" music Non-musical artistic: William Burroughs, William Gibson, cartoons (especially Warner Bros), Star Trek, existential theatre MUSICAL STYLE OR MAIN AREAS OF CONCENTRATION: Escape the clutches of Western harmony! Use the guitar and looping devices to build dense clusters of notes and tones. Actually, most of my music is unaccompanied acoustic guitar. I prefer free or slightly structured inprovisation to "songs". I want rules and guidelines to restrain the music, not composition, if you see the difference. The acoustic guitar, freed of standard tuning, is remarkably flexible for this. Looping gives me two benefits - first, it increases the potential note density, and second, it helps me set up musical environments that are not completely under my control. It's just another way of setting up rules for improvisational environments. ENSEMBLES: None. AVAILABLE RECORDINGS: None. PERSONAL STATEMENT: The best looping music I ever made required no involvement from me beyond the initial setup. I tuned an electric guitar to a highly resonant tuning with octave and fifth relationships. It went into a distortion pedal, then a Digitech 2 Second Delay/Flanger/Chorus with a noticable short delay (about 100-250ms) and slow/wide sweep (for a pitch wobble), then into an Electro-Harmonix 16 Second Delay (which I sold and will regret for the rest of my life) set to about 4 secs delay with high feedback. This all fed into a Fender tube amp turned up rather loud. I would lean the guitar against the side of the amp and give it a little tap. With the volume and distortion, this was enough to start it feeding back. But the Digitech-induced wobble and echoes and the long loop destabilized the feedback, so it tended to jump around from string to string, harmonic to harmonic. This melody of sorts got looped and fed back. Soon, there was a rich bed of harmonically related notes and noise, hundreds of echoes from the last minute or so of music playing at once. It was like an chaos orchestra. Of course, it was also really loud, so I'd usually leave the amp in the basement, and go upstairs to listen to it for an hour or so. I really wish I had some tapes now. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -Tom Attix _______________________________________________ attix@apple.com _______________________________________________ "Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps". - Emo Phillips From ???@??? Mon Oct 07 10:03:23 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 7 03:13:28 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vACgg-0005qm-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 03:13:26 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vACgc-00049a-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 03:13:22 -0700 Date: 07 Oct 96 06:05:35 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: vortex / steim Message-ID: <961007100534_100041.247_JHB56-4@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"CRBZtD.A.ouD.7cNWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/387 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 03:13:22 -0700 X-UIDL: 4dbbc29d72f6278f0830b45236a60cc6 hi all, 1. I just came back from a London shopping weekend. Tried to buy a Vortex but wasn't successful - all Vortices were gone, and everybody kept telling me that Lexicon has discontinued making them. 2. bought Eno's diary 'A Year with Swollen Appendices' (looking forward a lot to reading that) as well as David Toop's 'Ocean of Sound' book and CD. Almost finished the book already. A must for anyone interested in 'new music' or, as Toop prefers, 'open music', from Varese to Free Jazz, from Eno to the Minimalists. Very informative, and a great read. I was already 70% finished writing a 'History of Looping' page for our Looping website, but this book gave me a couple of new infos and insights so I'll have to rework parts of the page. 3. Continuing the Buchla / strange Midi controllers thread: Be sure to visit the site of Amsterdam's STEIM center at http://www.dds.nl/~steim/intro(eng).html if you're interested in unusual instruments and controllers. -Michael From ???@??? Mon Oct 07 10:03:24 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 7 06:06:24 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAFO3-0000vJ-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 06:06:23 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAFO3-00028t-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 06:06:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199610071304.AA133723471@hecky.acns.nwu.edu> X-Sender: kjh857@hecky.acns.nwu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 08:08:40 -0600 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kholmhud@nwu.edu (Kevin Holm-Hudson) Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE Resent-Message-ID: <"pADUKD.A.p-B.l_PWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/388 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 06:06:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 9d25fff925414af8226925fb088426ac Hi Kim-- Sorry but I can't deal with having to read and/or delete 73 messages from my mailbox when I come in after a long weekend. The volume is just too high and the content too gear-oriented for my interests (I know, I should contribute something *not* gear-oriented, but lack of time is another issue...) So please unsubscribe me (take me off) of the Loopers' list. I hope this takes care of it. Cheers-- Kevin Holm-Hudson Northwestern University School of Music kholmhud@nwu.edu ******************************************************************************** From ???@??? Mon Oct 07 23:56:33 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 7 14:36:38 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vANLp-0000s0-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:36:37 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vANLq-00019k-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:36:38 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 13:44:54 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: roots Resent-Message-ID: <"gMCV4B.A.sAB.tcXWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/393 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:36:38 -0700 X-UIDL: aa3644d2bd8f27c6bbdb038e5b61a145 >>Repeated phrases, with rising and falling intensity, have been a part of >>music for a long, long time I think. Its in music from all over the world, >>in all different cultures. If anything, a bit less in European Classical >>music, but its certainly present there too. > >Amazing, isnt it: As if Europe had "escaped" form the "barbarian" >repetitive music and then got lost in intelectual ateism until in the 60ies >the "stupidity" in the music broke through again and cures the stiffness - >a rather radical view, easy to see the oposit if one wants. Bach's chorales and fugues are based on variations of a melody, ie. permuting a melody by shitfing pitch, time scale, direction of flow, etc, and then playing the permuted melodies at the same time as the original one, creating endless varieties of entertwining melodic interactions -- not to mention some improvisation thrown in. This isn't pure repetition, but isn't purely linear either. >>I may even hazzard that this sort of repetition is an important part of >>making something "musical." I know I often find myself losing interest in >>music that keeps going on to something new with out ever repeating >>anything, while music that does repeat on various levels keeps me involved. Yes, I think listener involvement is a very important aspect to music. When there is a "pattern" underlying a musical composition, and the listener is aware of that pattern, it brings a new dimension to the music - certainly on the intellectual level -- but probably on the emotional level, as well. Reich's Phase music (violin, piano) is interesting to me intellectually, based purely on the concept (I was excited about this music, upon hearing ABOUT it, before I actually even HEARD it) -- but then upon listening to it, I was also impacted on a more emotional level. When I first experienced a live performance of an (North Indian Classical) raga, I was stunned by the complexity of the piece and the musicianship of the performers. But even more importantly, I was blown away by how the audience was "in tune" to what was going on. For example, when one performer would "go-off" on an incrediblly complex "solo", he would (climactically) hit the sum, (and go back into the basic theme) -- and the audience was ready for it! To me, it was comparable to John McLaughlin stopping in the middle of a raging solo, and the audience knowing, expecting that was going to happen. I didn't see the pattern, so to me it seemed as if there was some sort of "magical" communication going on between the performer and the audience. --> But the audience was merely aware of the underlying pattern of the music. Apparently, Bach never "finished" his more complex fugues, ie. he never carried out the piece to its logical completeness. He left that open for the listener to do. If one was aware of the underlying pattern of the music, he could finish the piece himself. I guess the point I am trying to make with all this is that there is a dimension to a musical performance which involves how a piece is meaningful to the listener. Music can be meaningful in so many ways. To me, looping music (in particular) can be meaningful on an emotional level (perhaps, repetition has something to do with this, like a mantra) and on an intellectual level (perhaps, due to the complexity which results by combining simple, fundamental parts). - chris --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Mon Oct 07 23:56:24 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 7 14:05:58 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAMs9-0006tp-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:05:57 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAMs9-0000Za-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:05:57 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:02:40 -0400 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Indian classical music Resent-Message-ID: <"baiQOC.A.za.f-WWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/391 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:05:57 -0700 X-UIDL: 069fc2aae2b57ea55a3f56cb8c77a1d8 I noticed from the looper index that several folks were interested in Indian Classical music. This is exciting to me -- and I would like to start a thread in this direction, beacuse I feel that this music (ie. the premises behind this music) is very condusive to looping. [I'm sure traditional Indian classicalists will shout "blasphemy" for this statement, since improvisation is such an important part of the music -- but I don't think that looping and improvisation need be mutually exclusive -- I'm sure many of you will agree with me on this, as many of you have stated the desire for continuously altering or varying loops, instead of using pure repetition]. Let me describe briefly what I understand as the basis of (North) Indian classical music: 1. The music is based primarily on rhythmic and melodic content, not harmonic (as in the European tradition). 2. The rhythmic aspect of a piece is based upon a "tal", or rhythmic cycle. This is defined by a pulse tempo and a number, where the number represents the number of pulses in the rhythmic cycle. Most Indian music uses cycles of 24, 16, 12, 10, 8, 7, or 6, but any number (integer > 1) is theoretically OK. The "one" or first beat of the rhythm cycle is called the "sum". The key to musical interaction is for all the musicians involved to hit the sum. Within the rhythm cycle, the musicans may go off separately, with incredible rhythmic complexity and improvisation, but you can be sure that he will end up (along with the other musicians) right back on the sum. 3. The melodic aspect of a piece is based upon a "raga". A raga can be thought of simplistically, as a melodic scale, but it is more than that. Often, there will be a "ascending" and "descending" scale, meaning the performer will play one set of notes when ascending in pitch, and a (slightly) different set of notes, when descending. There is more to a raga than just the notes, though -- you can have two different ragas using the same notes, by having different "tal's", or even by virtue of the way they are performed (ie. the themes used) -- and this seems to be tied in to the "emotional impact" or feel of the raga. 4. Within these rhythmic and melodic constraints, the performer is free to improvise, and to embellish basic themes -- so no two performances are the same!! To me, this is a major distinction between the Indian and European classical traditions. I don't mean to oversimplify the rich complexity of Indian classical music -- there are many other forms, structures, and aspects to the music (I'm sure plenty, of which, I am not aware). But I mainly wanted to present the basic rhythmic nature of the music. So, since the whole concept is based on the rhythm CYCLE, you can see why this may be condusive to looping. By combining multiple loops of various lengths, there will always be a sum (ie. beat "one"), which will occur at the GCM (greatest common multiple) of the individual loop beats. Improvisation would surely be different than in a classical raga, but there is plenty of room for improvisation using current loopers. Each loop can be generated spontaneously, and then multiple loops can be combined in different ways. I'll write more later about using Indian music ideas with loopers/delays. I'm curious what others have to say on this topic... - chris --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Mon Oct 07 23:56:27 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 7 14:06:46 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAMsv-0006wA-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:06:45 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAMsw-0000bA-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:06:46 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:06:09 -0400 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Rypdal? Resent-Message-ID: <"hmYP8.A.Hg.wBXWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/392 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:06:46 -0700 X-UIDL: ccc471cca7feb0093a4bb10a42df0fd0 I noticed that a couple listed Terje Rypdal as an influence. I haven't heard (him?). Can someone please fill me in? --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Mon Oct 07 23:56:49 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 7 15:28:45 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAOAG-0003aT-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 15:28:44 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAOAH-0002CE-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 15:28:45 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 15:27:57 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: Indian classical music Resent-Message-ID: <"qHqpbB.A.ZAC.rOYWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/398 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 15:28:45 -0700 X-UIDL: f5267cdfb5c42f552364ccbd8a3cf651 Dave Stagner wrote: >Here's another analogy between Indian classical music and looping - >the drone. Chordal harmonic interest, in the Western sense, does not >exist in Indian classical music. Instead, the music develops against >a drone. I'm sure you're all familiar with that buzzing sound that we >associate with Indian music. I can't remember the name of the >instrument offhand, but it is simply a tuned drone, creating a >background for the other musicians to work against. It is similar to >the sitar, which has a number of resonant drone strings. Chris chimes in: This instrument is called a Tanpura (sometimes referred to as a Tambora). The melodic performer will tune the tanpura to the notes of the raga, and another person will pluck the strings (no frets) during the performance, creating the drone. It is interesting to note that the tanpura strings are not (necessarily) plucked in rhythm with the performance. I have programmed a pretty good tanpura sound, using the Roland U-220 (starting with the SITAR1 sound on the ETHNIC card, and changing the ADSR parameters). Although tanpuras are used mainly as a tuning reference for the melodic performer, they also add a rich texture to the piece. This reminds me: Often, I will play ambient sounds or environments during a looping performance (eg. rain, crickets, etc -- sometimes even thru a processor). This adds a nice rich background to the music. Does anyone else do this? --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Mon Oct 07 23:56:14 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 7 13:24:26 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAMDx-0004mD-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 13:24:25 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAMDx-0007bH-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 13:24:25 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9610071614.ZM90218@magritte.its.rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 16:14:17 -0400 In-Reply-To: "S. Patrick Hickey" "Re: Latin, and roots" (Oct 4, 6:04am) References: <199610041300.JAA05062@nielsenmedia.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Latin, and roots Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"5hnyF.A.3_G.1TWWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/390 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 13:24:25 -0700 X-UIDL: 9ba8da8648b0d16fb73d5418683242a4 pat, who is brooke and brook? also is s/f summers and fripp? what was the tour about? thanks collier From ???@??? Mon Oct 07 23:56:40 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 7 14:57:59 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vANgT-00021f-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:57:57 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vANgU-0001ck-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:57:58 -0700 Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 16:55:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner X-Sender: dstagner@icarus.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Indian classical music In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"gG6Xd.A.5bB.hxXWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/397 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:57:58 -0700 X-UIDL: 8b272ceb4cc1c822288fead83666b7c3 Here's another analogy between Indian classical music and looping - the drone. Chordal harmonic interest, in the Western sense, does not exist in Indian classical music. Instead, the music develops against a drone. I'm sure you're all familiar with that buzzing sound that we associate with Indian music. I can't remember the name of the instrument offhand, but it is simply a tuned drone, creating a background for the other musicians to work against. It is similar to the sitar, which has a number of resonant drone strings. In my own looping, I rarely use chordal development. I prefer drones and percussive sounds. This might be due to my own exposure to Indian music, or just my own ear, I'm not certain. Several of the most successful looping musicians I know of were also strongly influenced by Indian music - David Torn and Robert Fripp spring immediately to mind. A bed of looping drones and percussion is fertile ground for melodic improvisation. So I think there is not only a rhythmic, but also a structural relationship between looping music and Indian music. Of course, this is all assuming a certain approach to looping - an approach I and many others engage in, but certainly not the only musically valid approach. Most of what I know intellectually about Indian classical music comes from two sources. The first was an evening's conversation with a most excellent gentleman from India, a professor at a Northern Indian university who sang in the classical style (he gave a concert), and studied the folk music of Northern India. I met him after his concert and he invited me to dinner and described the music and his training in great detail. The next day, he gave a presentation on Indian folk music, with many recordings. This music, sadly, is dying due to the introduction of the radio and recorded music. The other source was a book by English free improvisor Derek Bailey, called (appropriately enough) "Musical Improvisation". Bailey devoted two chapters of this rather thin volume to Indian classical music, praising it extensively as an improvisational structure. He spent much time dealing with the basic musical theory, which is more philosophical than "musical" in nature. Because there really isn't a written form for the music, there is debate over even the number of notes in an octave. But I digress, again. :} Anyway, Bailey's book is a terrific read if you can get it, but I'm sure it is long out of print. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. -Charles Fort dstagner@icarus.net From ???@??? Mon Oct 07 23:56:38 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 7 14:57:13 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vANfk-0001zE-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:57:12 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vANfl-0001av-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:57:13 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 19:58:40 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Eventide? Resent-Message-ID: <"4-sI_D.A.NYB.gwXWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/395 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:57:13 -0700 X-UIDL: 3017b87ee4beacb2a1c7ed6bc3bb835e > (it is still not tomorroiw i'd get an Eventide that >no one is talking about, but it must be an incredible looping system, with >its ability to follow the playing envloppe) What do you mean? Some Eventide loop system I do not know of? From ???@??? Mon Oct 07 23:56:44 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 7 14:58:37 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vANh5-000247-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:58:35 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vANh6-0001ec-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:58:36 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 19:58:45 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: The beginning.. Resent-Message-ID: <"-X9bCD.A.XYB.hwXWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/396 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:58:36 -0700 X-UIDL: 3922a52c812d8be69c8efec4386c1d7d >For this i have clues. I think it did ot ONLY started with tapes. I saw a >video about composers in france in the beginning of the sixties, they had >a whole laboratory that was to grow into an experimental plublic funded >center od research on music and technologie with VERY state of the art >technologie (like a using a Cray computer, wich far is from my Mac for >the moment). They had an old analog sequencer that weighted 200 Kg I >think, and they did loops with.... Vinyls! They had old black records with >many looped on it. The record did not play from beginning to end but had >each track(drill?) with a loop. Long ones on the beginning of the record, >little ones in the end. They stacked up to 8 phono at a time... >Hell I don't remember the name of this thinb Boulez set in motion it was >like Centre d'etude et de recherche musicale or something... > Yeah, grab some more information! France was always very advanced in electronic music due to institues like IRCAM. They certainly looped a lot of weird sounds there! Matthias From ???@??? Mon Oct 07 23:56:42 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 7 14:58:02 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vANgX-00021y-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:58:01 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vANgW-0001co-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:58:00 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 19:58:49 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: roots Resent-Message-ID: <"_Ui-EB.A.KXB.TwXWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/394 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 14:58:00 -0700 X-UIDL: 4896bb08e3c49bf3e227fcbe305958a6 >Dave wondered: >"Hope I haven't muddied the waters even more." > >Of course you did, and all hope so! Things clear as crystal are sterile >and don't support any creativity.. Let us get things inclear, muddy, and >trouble. It gives richness... > >Olivier Each his own philosophy... Is "Malhomme" your real name or did you select it? :-) IHH we are getting off topic again... From ???@??? Mon Oct 07 23:56:57 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 7 17:51:19 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAQOE-0002uH-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 17:51:18 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAQOG-0004pl-00; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 17:51:20 -0700 Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 17:42:24 -0700 Message-Id: <199610080042.RAA18437@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: Re: Indian classical music Resent-Message-ID: <"kOlm-D.A.gcE.uSaWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/399 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 17:51:20 -0700 X-UIDL: 0bd79722e1fa4badf211833300c0bebb At 02:02 PM 10/7/96 -0400, you wrote: >I noticed from the looper index that several folks were interested in >Indian Classical music. This is exciting to me -- and I would like to >start a thread in this direction, beacuse I feel that this music (ie. the >premises behind this music) is very condusive to looping. > > [I'm sure traditional Indian classicalists will shout "blasphemy" for this >statement, since improvisation is such an important part of the music -- >but I don't think that looping and improvisation need be mutually exclusive >-- I'm sure many of you will agree with me on this, as many of you have >stated the desire for continuously altering or varying loops, instead of >using pure repetition]. > >Let me describe briefly what I understand as the basis of (North) Indian >classical music: > >1. The music is based primarily on rhythmic and melodic content, not >harmonic (as in the European tradition). > >2. The rhythmic aspect of a piece is based upon a "tal", or rhythmic >cycle. This is defined by a pulse tempo and a number, where the number >represents the number of pulses in the rhythmic cycle. Most Indian music >uses cycles of 24, 16, 12, 10, 8, 7, or 6, but any number (integer > 1) >is theoretically OK. The "one" or first beat of the rhythm cycle is called >the "sum". The key to musical interaction is for all the musicians >involved to hit the sum. Within the rhythm cycle, the musicans may go off >separately, with incredible rhythmic complexity and improvisation, but you >can be sure that he will end up (along with the other musicians) right back >on the sum. > >3. The melodic aspect of a piece is based upon a "raga". A raga can be >thought of simplistically, as a melodic scale, but it is more than that. >Often, there will be a "ascending" and "descending" scale, meaning the >performer will play one set of notes when ascending in pitch, and a >(slightly) different set of notes, when descending. There is more to a >raga than just the notes, though -- you can have two different ragas using >the same notes, by having different "tal's", or even by virtue of the way >they are performed (ie. the themes used) -- and this seems to be tied in to >the "emotional impact" or feel of the raga. > >4. Within these rhythmic and melodic constraints, the performer is free to >improvise, and to embellish basic themes -- so no two performances are the >same!! To me, this is a major distinction between the Indian and European >classical traditions. > >I don't mean to oversimplify the rich complexity of Indian classical music >-- there are many other forms, structures, and aspects to the music (I'm >sure plenty, of which, I am not aware). But I mainly wanted to present the >basic rhythmic nature of the music. > >So, since the whole concept is based on the rhythm CYCLE, you can see why >this may be condusive to looping. By combining multiple loops of various >lengths, there will always be a sum (ie. beat "one"), which will occur at >the GCM (greatest common multiple) of the individual loop beats. >Improvisation would surely be different than in a classical raga, but there >is plenty of room for improvisation using current loopers. Each loop can >be generated spontaneously, and then multiple loops can be combined in >different ways. > >I'll write more later about using Indian music ideas with loopers/delays. >I'm curious what others have to say on this topic... > >- chris > >--------------------------------------- >Chris Chovit >cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov >--------------------------------------- > > > Chris- your comments certainly strike a chord with me. I've used short loops of Indian music as backing for energy bow loops on at least two occasions: once, a tabla solo in 17 beats (on my album "Pay Your Respects") and again a piece of sitar on a later recording of mine entitled "Charm Zone". I plan to use snippets of Indian music (looped from my Discman) in a planned upcoming series of performances. (Along with Korean drummers, classical string pieces...whatever strikes my fancy and/or is a good "backing" to build e-bow on.) I was very pleased with the results, although it takes some doing to adjust your melodic style to "fit" the textures and sounds of the Indian music. I love Indian music anyway (having grown up in East Africa which has/had a large Indian population) + of course Mr. Harrison's forays into same I would assume inspired us all.. It does indeed lend itself very well to the looping process, particularly if you just loop a rhythmic idea (as I did with the tabla solo in seventeen beats) and then provide all new melodic content on top. You are indeed correct about another thing-looping Indian music will be viewed as sacrilege by "real" Indian musicians. I have experienced this first hand, a British sitar player who does sessions told me he was "disgusted" because the producers of the session he was on just took an eight second loop out of his taped part... and I can understand, because if you spend most of your life training in such an intense classical discipline, and then have all your technique and skill and experience "snipped" down to a 4/4 time loop... so i can see both sides. this, however, will not stop me from working more with Indian sounds... excellent thread! dave at studio seventeen p.s. >Often, I will play ambient sounds or environments during a looping >performance (eg. rain, crickets, etc -- sometimes even thru a processor). >This adds a nice rich background to the music. Does anyone else do >this? Yes, although I've tended more towards things like gregorian chants or human voice type sounds. I don't have a real good cricket or rain generator!!! dave @ 17 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * i'll be downstairs if you need me. * * i'll still be downstairs if you DON'T need me * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Tue Oct 08 09:53:51 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 8 02:21:57 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAYMP-0005k3-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 02:21:57 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAYMR-0005Hs-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 02:21:59 -0700 Date: 08 Oct 96 05:14:46 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: tape loops on the radio Message-ID: <961008091445_100041.247_JHB92-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"9xtIDC.A.Z5E.LzhWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/401 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 02:22:00 -0700 X-UIDL: 2bbf7f2c8d2a34197d33859b33d0a5bb > He makes these loops the old-fashioned way, on 1/4" tape, often 20 or 30 > feet long using mic stands to turn the corner, go down the hall into the > studio, turn around, and come back. This technique has already been used in the early sixties by Terry Riley (before he came up with the 2-machine, tape delay-feedback system which was the forefather of Frippertronics). Terry Riley: > I was working with Anna Halprins Dance Company. I was working with tape > loops, sort of primitive technology. This was in the late 50's early 60's. > I was using tape loops for dancers and dance production. I had very funky > primitive equipment, in fact technology wasn't very good no matter how much > money you had. Everything was mono. Using these machines I would take > tapes and run them into my yard and around a wine bottle back into my room > and I would get a really long loop and then I would cut the tape into all > different sizes and I would just run them out into the yard and I would > record onto one machine just sound on sound. -Michael From ???@??? Tue Oct 08 09:53:54 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 8 02:22:58 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAYNO-0005ko-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 02:22:58 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAYNQ-0005KP-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 02:23:00 -0700 Date: 08 Oct 96 05:14:51 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: NAMM mini looper gathering Message-ID: <961008091451_100041.247_JHB92-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"i_k6s.A.d5E.LzhWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/402 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 02:23:00 -0700 X-UIDL: bdc44ac49abb291d18374aadb4e49c44 > I never met somebody in flesh after meeting on the net. How is that? Very different! :-) -Michael From ???@??? Tue Oct 08 09:53:53 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 8 02:22:24 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAYMq-0005kW-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 02:22:24 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAYMt-0005J9-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 02:22:27 -0700 Date: 08 Oct 96 05:14:54 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: roots (and dj's) Message-ID: <961008091453_100041.247_JHB92-3@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"Ddu4-.A.94E.GzhWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/400 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 02:22:27 -0700 X-UIDL: 4c22d25f1201cf828867d8a44206735f >> I'm no expert regarding this kind of stuff, but I bet that if you search >> for info on Musique Concrete, you'll find some names of the first people >> to compose with these kinds of materials. >> >> -Jon > Aha! This is a lead. Any Musique Concrete experts hanging about? > I thought there may have been people who experimented with records as a > musical tool before tape loops, but wasn't sure. Does anybody know more > details about that? I'd love to know who these people were and who > inspired them. > > Kim Yes, records were there before tape. Names: Edgard Varese, Pierre Schaeffer, Pierry Henry, Olivier Messiaen. Schaeffer did the first Musique Concrete piece in 1948, using recordings. Varese did the first Musique Concrete piece using tapes in 1954. -Michael From ???@??? Tue Oct 08 09:54:22 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 8 08:30:20 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAe6s-00068L-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 08:30:18 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAe6t-00078Z-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 08:30:19 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 13:50:27 +0100 Message-ID: <25A73650.1424@mail.bl.uk> From: David.Orton@mail.bl.uk (David Orton) Subject: Re: Rypdal? To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"EnTEaD.A.QpG.rMnWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/409 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 08:30:19 -0700 X-UIDL: 5f89790e1cc0192d114ea74fe0cd9088 Chris Chovit said: I noticed that a couple listed Terje Rypdal as an influence. I haven't heard (him?). Can someone please fill me in? Terje is a musician from Norway. His main instrument is guitar, although his albums of the last 25+ years credit him with flute, keyboards, and soprano sax. In a way he has taken the sound of Hendrix and applied it to the European strand of jazz which includes Jan Garbarek, with whom he played in the late 60's/early 70's, and helped define what's become known as `The ECM Sound' (although thats only a part of what he does). His output is varied, from almost atonal/angular/shards-of-sound to lush and romantic. My favourite, and why I included him, is `After the Rain', which the review in UK's Melody Maker depicted as `the thinking man's Tubular Bells' - mainly cos TR played all the instruments, and possibly not the greatest recommendations in some eyes/ears but 20 years on I still find much to enjoy from the tracks. I wouldn't recommend everything he's done - as noted, his output is diverse(sp?), but I've also liked his last 3-4 group albums. Hope this helps - his discography, and a more literate analysis is on the ECM pages: http://www.ecmrecords.com/ecm/artists/8.html David david.orton@bl.uk Those Orton Leaves: http://subnet.virtual-pc.com/~or387751/ From ???@??? Tue Oct 08 09:53:57 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 8 06:13:12 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAbyC-0001mE-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 06:13:12 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAbyC-0005Da-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 06:13:12 -0700 Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 09:10:24 -0400 From: "S. Patrick Hickey" Message-Id: <199610081310.JAA12356@nielsenmedia.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Latin, and roots Resent-Message-ID: <"WmJLl.A.92E.WMlWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/403 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 06:13:12 -0700 X-UIDL: 4c00c1e5929a9666487edf4ba3934e39 > pat, > who is brooke and brook? > also is s/f summers and fripp? what was the tour about? > thanks > collier Sorry. I confuse Michael Brook's last name as Brooke (or is it the other way 'round?:) all the time. S/F == Sylvian/Fripp. Pat ***SPH brzrkr@nielsenmedia.com From ???@??? Tue Oct 08 09:53:58 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 8 06:15:13 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAc08-0001pT-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 06:15:12 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAc07-0005Gr-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 06:15:11 -0700 Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 15:13:48 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Eventide? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"VSeid.A.e6E.cOlWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/404 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 06:15:11 -0700 X-UIDL: c93b829aa8e49522e47e918ed2e3fc26 Well I read somewhere that since the H3000, there was an enveloppe follower in the machine. Now I need help from you owner of Vorteces (or whatever). I just mine last week, and since it was shipped from USA to france, I cannot count on warranty as you will see: Using the rotating knob that is suppossed to choose between all 16 kind of effects, I just have half of them (1 gives me 15, 2 gives 16, 3 gives 10, 4 gives 10, 5 gives 5, 6 gives 5, 7 and 8 work, 9 gives 8......) I only get right number of preset using a pedal, but it turns the machine in register mode. So I've lost around 8 programm impossible to dial in any way. Perhaps there a way of making sort of initialization of the whole machine. Any idea, anyone using the thing? Olivier From ???@??? Tue Oct 08 09:54:01 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 8 06:22:05 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAc6m-0001zK-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 06:22:04 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAc6m-0005NH-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 06:22:04 -0700 Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 15:19:50 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: roots In-Reply-To: <961008091453_100041.247_JHB92-3@CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"phjPoC.A.PAF.QUlWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/405 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 06:22:04 -0700 X-UIDL: 12d44a0cec4a801863532c5ed01f7d7c So Ok we loop the loop. People I talked about doing loops on old black record was Schaeffer, the place I talked about was the IRCAM... Thanx everyone Olivier From ???@??? Tue Oct 08 09:54:07 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 8 07:37:24 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAdHf-00048h-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 07:37:23 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAdHg-0006Et-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 07:37:24 -0700 Message-Id: <199610081434.AA23352@internet-mail2.ford.com> From: "Steven R. Murrell" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Latin, and roots Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 10:32:35 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"jZzmLC.A.ryF.WamWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/406 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 07:37:24 -0700 X-UIDL: aad63ad8d9a3e967f8e2dd53d5b43604 >I beleive that before tape looping, there were some radio engineers who >would scratch records to make them skip on purpose, thus creating loops, >and musique concrete was born. Also, they used the wind-off groove at >the end of a record side to repeat things indefinitely. I'm no expert >regarding this kind of stuff, but I bet that if you search for info on >Musique Concrete, you'll find some names of the first people to compose >with these kinds of materials. >-Jon A D.J. in Ann Arbor named "Ed Special" at WCBN was working with loops fifteen to twenty years ago in the radio studio. I recall seeing LLLONNNNGGGG loops of audio tape pass through the tape machine, meander over hooks, pencils, paper clips, and other such objects placed about the studio and pass again thruogh the tape machine. These loops were very long by the standards of those days (minutes). The loops were simultaniously blended with other stuff that he would be playing on the record players and tape decks (usually old, extremely tacky and sometimes scary educational stuff) as well as spatterings of music. Kind of an audio collage. Anyway, I know that he recorded every show and these might be available. Try contacting WCBN Radio in Ann Arbor, Michigan (313) 763-3501 Steve Murrell smurrell@ford.com From ???@??? Tue Oct 08 09:54:14 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 8 08:12:54 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAdq1-0005Pe-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 08:12:53 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAdq1-0006nR-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 08:12:53 -0700 Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 11:04:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Pete Koniuto Subject: Re: Indian classical music To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ywYLlC.A._TG.R7mWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/407 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 08:12:53 -0700 X-UIDL: a41c3652ba0f7be38c1c4cc823c9c033 Loopers, On Mon, 7 Oct 1996, Dave Stagner wrote: > The other source was a book by English free improvisor Derek Bailey, > called (appropriately enough) "Musical Improvisation". Bailey devoted > two chapters of this rather thin volume to Indian classical music, > praising it extensively as an improvisational structure. He spent > much time dealing with the basic musical theory, which is more > philosophical than "musical" in nature. Because there really isn't a > written form for the music, there is debate over even the number of > notes in an octave. > > But I digress, again. :} Anyway, Bailey's book is a terrific read if > you can get it, but I'm sure it is long out of print. Small correction: The book by Derek Bailey is actually called _Improvisation: its nature and practice in music_, published in 1980, but then a second edition appeared in 1992 from the London publisher, British Library National Sound Archive. But, alas, even the second edition is out of print already. However, i am sure a copy of at least one of these editions is available in your local library. There is another *excellent* book for those interested in the fundamentals of Indian Classical music--the terminology and such. It was written by a woman whose name eludes me for the moment, but i have it at home somewhere, i believe. So i'll post the info tomorrow. Wonderful thread, indeed! Yours, Pete the Tea Boy From ???@??? Tue Oct 08 09:54:19 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 8 08:14:58 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAds0-0005Tt-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 08:14:57 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAds1-0006rP-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 08:14:57 -0700 Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 11:17:46 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) Message-Id: <199610081517.LAA07176@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Rypdal? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"biFxR.A.RZG.I-mWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/408 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 08:14:57 -0700 X-UIDL: a4c3ae68e6bdd02f3b18004833ee2484 Terje is a European (swiss?) guitarist/composer from the ECM label. As an ECM artist his style is "ambient jazz" (meaning "lots of reverb"). He has a talent for bringing about an orchestral sensibility in his compositions. A good place to start is with _Descendre_. His sound is similar to Jan Garbarek's early stuff (Torn played with Jan) but his compositional style is unique. Very beautiful stuff. You can find his work in any good jazz section. Clark From ???@??? Tue Oct 08 09:54:23 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 8 08:46:10 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAeMD-0006pd-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 08:46:09 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAeMD-0007Pv-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 08:46:09 -0700 Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 10:42:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner X-Sender: dstagner@icarus.icarus.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Indian classical music In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"3jkm9.A.e4G.uZnWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/410 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 08:46:09 -0700 X-UIDL: ebf43ec36ecc2112e081ef309003ca9d On Tue, 8 Oct 1996, Pete Koniuto wrote: > > Loopers, > > On Mon, 7 Oct 1996, Dave Stagner wrote: > > > The other source was a book by English free improvisor Derek Bailey, > > called (appropriately enough) "Musical Improvisation". Bailey devoted > > two chapters of this rather thin volume to Indian classical music, > > praising it extensively as an improvisational structure. He spent > > much time dealing with the basic musical theory, which is more > > philosophical than "musical" in nature. Because there really isn't a > > written form for the music, there is debate over even the number of > > notes in an octave. > > Small correction: The book by Derek Bailey is actually called > _Improvisation: its nature and practice in music_, published in 1980, but > then a second edition appeared in 1992 from the London publisher, British > Library National Sound Archive. Thanks for the correction. I'm going from memory here. Heck, I only recently rediscovered my copy, buried in a box with a bunch of half-demolished electronics I stripped for parts. I was terrified I had loaned it out to someone and never got it back! > But, alas, even the second edition is out of print already. However, > i am sure a copy of at least one of these editions is available in > your local library. I've NEVER seen it in a library, including a couple of university libraries. Then again, given the typical Ivory Tower conservatory attitude toward improvisation... > There is another *excellent* book for those interested in the fundamentals > of Indian Classical music--the terminology and such. It was written by a > woman whose name eludes me for the moment, but i have it at home somewhere, > i believe. So i'll post the info tomorrow. Please do! All I have are my Ali Akbar Khan records, the Bailey book, and memories of a conversation from years ago. It seems to me Indian music theory might go a long way toward capturing an understanding of looping, where Western theory falls flat. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. -Charles Fort dstagner@icarus.net From ???@??? Tue Oct 08 09:54:25 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 8 09:26:47 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAezW-0000vb-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 09:26:46 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAezX-0000Hh-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 09:26:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199610081624.AA11815@internet-mail2.ford.com> From: "Steven R. Murrell" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Rypdal? Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 12:21:41 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"4K0xY.A.UN.vAoWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/411 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 09:26:47 -0700 X-UIDL: e10a827b22f64a0d4d2309c99887cf5a >I noticed that a couple listed Terje Rypdal as an influence. I haven't >heard (him?). Can someone please fill me in? >--------------------------------------- >Chris Chovit >cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov >--------------------------------------- Terje Rypdal is a Norwegian guitarist who plays a combination of styles including jazz, ambient, fusion, etc. which for me is kind of hard to describe. His melodies are soft textured with ocassional course edges. He has a very distinct tone and uses various effects including loops. You really need to listen for yourself. In my oppinion, his best work is the CD "Blue" on ECM records. For more information on Terje and a discography go see "www.ecmrecords.com/ecm/bio/8.html" Steve Murrell smurrell@ford.com From ???@??? Tue Oct 08 22:23:56 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 8 10:31:50 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAg0T-0004Ad-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 10:31:49 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAg0U-0001Sa-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 10:31:50 -0700 Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 13:27:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: ejmd@pop.erols.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ejmd@erols.com (Ed Drake) Subject: Re: Indian classical music Resent-Message-ID: <"cyJ38.A.PSB.H8oWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/413 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 10:31:50 -0700 X-UIDL: 8ba77e19e9f3c2913e33601e3c1fbb64 Loopers, All this talk of Indian Classical music is something that is close to my heart as I've been studying Tabla(North Indian drums) off and on when time permits for several years. I haven't heard anyone mention that there are 2 traditions of Indian Classical music. One is North Indian which is Hindustani including sitars,tablas,etc,and features improvisation as a main feature of its style(?). The other is an older tradition the Carnatic (South Indian) which is more structured and the compositions are more fixed as far as I know. The Carnatic features the Vina,violin and other instruments. All this I'm writing off the top of my head so I know I've left some instruments and info out. To truly study this music you traditionally find a guru(teacher) and spend years studying your instrument before you go out and play. Usually books are not used to teach but teaching is done one on one with ones' guru. I know books are used more nowadays probably due to the influence of the West. One of the best sources for Indian Music books, instruments,recordings,etc. is the Ali Akbar Khan college of Indian music in San Rafael ,CA . Their phone number is 415-454-0581. They also have a Web page but I don't have the URL handy at the moment ,sorry. They publish one of the most thorough books on North Indian Classical music I've seen called "The Classical Music of North India" by Ali Akbar Khan . It is about $50 but it is over 350 pages. Later , Ed Drake From ???@??? Tue Oct 08 10:07:04 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 8 09:58:07 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAfTq-0002Qq-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 09:58:06 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAfTs-0000ri-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 09:58:08 -0700 Date: Tue, 08 Oct 96 11:51:28 CST From: "Todd Madson" Message-Id: <9609088448.AA844801109@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, Todd.Madson@spica.LaserMaster.Com Subject: Re[2]: Rypdal? Resent-Message-ID: <"i3vhbB.A.tv.adoWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/412 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 09:58:08 -0700 X-UIDL: 24efa36e6dfacec7639a511a00a11748 Let me comment on your comments: > Terje Rypdal is a Norwegian guitarist who plays a combination of = > styles including jazz, ambient, fusion, etc. which for me is kind of = > hard to describe. Right. He dabbles in several styles - specifically, heavy rock-tinged jazz fusion guitar (with distortion - kind of like a moodier Allan Holdsworth), Odd, formless tone poems or vignettes, modern classical music, and sometimes conventional four-on-the-floor rock instrumentals. > His melodies are soft textured with ocassional course edges. He has a very > distinct tone and uses various effects including loops. This guy is the master of the melancholy phrase as well as the master of the volume pedal. He can chop out, too, but only if it suits the piece. His album "Waves" was my introduction and it's fabulous. It's some of the most introspective and dreamy stuff ever, but still powerful. > You really need to listen for yourself. Definetely. Pick any three records and you could be talking completely different artists, i.e. pick up "Blue", "Whenever I Seem to be Far Away" and "Eos" and each is radically different. > In my oppinion, his best work is the CD "Blue" on ECM records. This record is considerably more direct than his earlier work. The period from "whenever I seem to be far away", "what comes after" "odyssey", "after the rain", through "waves", "descendre", "rypdal / vitous / dejohnette", "to be continued", Barre Phillip's "three day moon" album (which has Rypdal on it), "eos" are some of the most wonderful, introspective stuff ever. He took a weird right turn after Eos and did "chaser", which was still wonderful, then did two records that sort of removed the dreamy spatiality and were much more direct. But then, he went off and did "If Mountains Could Sing" which were more like his earlier stuff. Highly recommended. > For more information on = > Terje and a discography go see "www.ecmrecords.com/ecm/bio/8.html" Yep. Todd Madson Terje Rypdal-fan. Received: from spica.LaserMaster.Com by ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com (SMTPLINK V2.10.08) ; Tue, 08 Oct 96 11:31:41 CST Return-Path: Received: from mouse.slip.net (mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102]) by spica.LaserMaster.Com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA18434 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 11:31:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAeyz-0000Gr-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 09:26:13 -0700 Message-Id: <199610081624.AA11815@internet-mail2.ford.com> From: "Steven R. Murrell" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Rypdal? Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 12:21:41 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Resent-Message-ID: <"4K0xY.A.UN.vAoWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/411 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: ToddM@lasermaster.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 09:26:13 -0700 From ???@??? Tue Oct 08 22:24:14 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 8 13:35:46 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAisS-0003wm-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 13:35:44 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAisS-0004Fg-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 13:35:44 -0700 Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 13:31:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610082031.NAA16509@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: tape loops on the radio Resent-Message-ID: <"tfTD7.A.46D.wprWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/414 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 13:35:44 -0700 X-UIDL: 9cc784f8cc7fdee869e58a1c11adf777 >>Joe Frank is a radio artist whose various weekly program series ("Work in >>Progress," "In the Dark," and "Somewhere Out There") have been distributed >>continuously for more than 10 years by National Public Radio, and aired by >>NPR affiliates all over the country. I've tuned in "In the Dark" a couple times while scanning the dial. It was the most amazing radio show I've ever heard. I thought I'd tuned into another planet. If anyone knows when it airs in the Bay Area, pelase let me know privately. From ???@??? Tue Oct 08 22:24:19 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 8 13:56:46 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAjCm-0005D4-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 13:56:44 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAjCn-0004dp-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 13:56:45 -0700 Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 13:53:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610082053.NAA18984@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: The beginning.. Resent-Message-ID: <"_rb9HB.A.EUE.u-rWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/415 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 13:56:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 3d8b9f3ea0d0880c92bd14861e9bb502 Olivier Malhomme writes: >For this i have clues. I think it did ot ONLY started with tapes. I saw a >video about composers in france in the beginning of the sixties, they had >a whole laboratory that was to grow into an experimental plublic funded >center od research on music and technologie with VERY state of the art >technologie (like a using a Cray computer, wich far is from my Mac for Not to be critical, but for starters: 1. Musique Concrete started in the 30s, if not the 20s. 2. Crays did not exist in the sixties. p.s., Seymour Cray RIP (he died a couple days ago, complications of an auto crash, 71 years old) From ???@??? Tue Oct 08 22:24:22 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 8 14:38:40 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAjrK-0007R9-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 14:38:38 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAjrK-0005NG-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 14:38:38 -0700 Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 14:35:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610082135.OAA24556@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Indian classical music Resent-Message-ID: <"OGr9x.A.E_E.clsWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/416 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 14:38:38 -0700 X-UIDL: facdee1f153bf42c0b20fba7621d3e06 >But I digress, again. :} Anyway, Bailey's book is a terrific read if >you can get it, but I'm sure it is long out of print. It's been recently reprinted (and, I think, updated). From ???@??? Tue Oct 08 22:24:30 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 8 15:49:25 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAkxo-0003M5-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 15:49:24 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAkxo-0006gN-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 15:49:24 -0700 Message-Id: <9610082253.AA38835@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com> X-Sender: cavaleri@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 14:48:48 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Joe Cavaleri Subject: Re: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other points Resent-Message-ID: <"YcRzPB.A.NOG.JotWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/418 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 15:49:24 -0700 X-UIDL: cb3571348386ed1513aee0195d2ff650 Hi Paul I purchased the Vortex a while back and found out quickly that I have very little patience for programming. I use the Vortex presets mostly.. I might tweak them sometimes. Overall the sound quality is very good. I use the Vortex,one of the channels of the Jamman, along with a direct feed from my preamp and more or less process these in parallel. Anyway back to the Vortex. I find that I use it to add color my sound. The unit itself is capable of some truly unique sounds. Also the capability to morph into different sounds can add subtle...or not so subtle sonic contrasts. Plus preset #16 (and other presets) give you the ability to set up ambient loops. Considering that the price has dropped to $150,(Guitar Center), it's worth some consideration. Worse case --- You,ve got a tap-tempo delay line. I would like to hear from other looper's about this box... maybe swap some ideas or programs/programming tips? joe At 01:15 PM 10/5/96 -0500, you wrote: >hey Joe ... how do you like the Vortex ... I've been using the Jamman with >an lxp15 and was wondering of the added dimensions of the Vortex > > > > > From ???@??? Tue Oct 08 22:24:25 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 8 15:18:05 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAkTU-0001kM-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 15:18:04 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAkTU-00067z-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 15:18:04 -0700 Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 15:14:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610082214.PAA29969@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <961008091453_100041.247_JHB92-3@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: roots (and dj's) Resent-Message-ID: <"duIEpC.A.6rF.xJtWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/417 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 15:18:04 -0700 X-UIDL: fca461200b787804e8f57b94dafe57f4 >Yes, records were there before tape. Names: Edgard Varese, Pierre Schaeffer, >Pierry Henry, Olivier Messiaen. Schaeffer did the first Musique Concrete >piece in 1948, using recordings. Varese did the first Musique Concrete piece >using tapes in 1954. I've heard of pieces from the 30s. There's been plenty of discussion of MC on the nm-list and post-classical lists over the years. I don't know if there are archives. From ???@??? Tue Oct 08 22:24:31 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 8 15:59:33 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAl7c-0003wt-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 15:59:32 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAl7d-0006sf-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 15:59:33 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961008230337.00706704@xenon.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@xenon.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 08 Oct 1996 16:03:37 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other points Resent-Message-ID: <"ZMdYoD.A.wZG.sxtWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/419 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 15:59:33 -0700 X-UIDL: c610e9db79fdfd1b8701f8361538bc4f We had a huge vortex thread a while back that I guess you guys missed. I'm in the process of putting old list postings up in an archive section of the website, so you can see it all soon. kim At 02:48 PM 10/8/96 -0700, you wrote: > Hi Paul > > I purchased the Vortex a while back and found out quickly that > I have very little patience for programming. I use the Vortex > presets mostly.. I might tweak them sometimes. Overall the sound > quality is very good. I use the Vortex,one of the channels of the > Jamman, along with a direct feed from my preamp and more or less > process these in parallel. Anyway back to the Vortex. I find that > I use it to add color my sound. The unit itself is capable of some > truly unique sounds. Also the capability to morph into different > sounds can add subtle...or not so subtle sonic contrasts. Plus preset > #16 (and other presets) give you the ability to set up ambient loops. > Considering that the price has dropped to $150,(Guitar Center), it's > worth some consideration. Worse case --- You,ve got a tap-tempo delay > line. > > I would like to hear from other looper's about this box... maybe swap > some ideas or programs/programming tips? > > > joe > > > >At 01:15 PM 10/5/96 -0500, you wrote: >>hey Joe ... how do you like the Vortex ... I've been using the Jamman with >>an lxp15 and was wondering of the added dimensions of the Vortex >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 OEM Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research From ???@??? Tue Oct 08 22:24:38 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 8 19:47:16 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAofy-0005m1-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 19:47:14 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAog0-000304-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 19:47:16 -0700 Message-ID: <01BBB567.9683CE60@ppp23.fcol.com> From: George Henry To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Indian classical music Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 22:05:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BBB567.969DBF00" Resent-Message-ID: <"-lOu6D.A.8rC.BFxWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/420 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 19:47:16 -0700 X-UIDL: 2b0eb0a9af78befe1d516432defebe0f This message was stimulated by Ed Drake's. For anyone desiring an excellent introduction to Carnatic music, I recommend Shankar's albums _Who's to Know?_ and the more recent _Raga Aberi_. [Does anyone need to be told that this musician and Ravi Shankar are not the same person?] This Shankar's first name (his surname, I believe) is Lakshminorayana. On his first western recordings, he was known as "L. Shankar", and lately he has even dropped the "L." (Too bad; I enjoy tongue-twisting non-English words.) Shankar plays a 10-stringed, double-necked electric violin of his own design. He is unbelievably virtuosic. He's played on a lot of western popular-style (pop, rock, jazz, ambient) albums, to good effect. - George Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:RE- Indian classical music (????/----) (0000CF86) From ???@??? Tue Oct 08 22:24:52 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 8 22:24:11 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAr7p-00054C-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 22:24:09 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAr7q-0004l1-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 22:24:10 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 03:24:54 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Rypdal? Resent-Message-ID: <"5fihAD.A.aYE.9YzWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/423 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 22:24:10 -0700 X-UIDL: fb1fcd36743031f14d5b5488595c7269 >I noticed that a couple listed Terje Rypdal as an influence. I haven't >heard (him?). Can someone please fill me in? > He plays a spheric guitar in Norway for a long time, making albums (on ECM?) regularely, but living rather of film music as he said. I met him around '85 in Zurich. He was very modest and shy. I presented him some of my equipment ideas but he said that he was completely satisfied with his few old stomp boxes - and really, the concert was great. Matthias From ???@??? Tue Oct 08 22:24:51 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 8 22:22:54 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAr6b-00051f-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 22:22:53 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAr6c-0004jL-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 22:22:54 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 03:24:59 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Eventide? Resent-Message-ID: <"zk1YbB.A.2WE.eYzWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/421 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 22:22:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 8362ba89da2057666ff1b028756384e9 >Matthias wrote: >> >> > (it is still not tomorroiw i'd get an Eventide that >> >no one is talking about, but it must be an incredible looping system, with >> >its ability to follow the playing envloppe) >> >> What do you mean? Some Eventide loop system I do not know of? Jonathan Brainin kindly answered: >Are you familiar with the Eventide DSP/GTR4000's? They come with >a bank of 25 delay patches and a bank of eight looping patches. >Mono loops have 10 seconds of delay, stereo loops have five. >There is also a sampling board option for longer loops. The >maximum length for a stereo loop on with this board is 87 secs. >Of course, one can apply other effects such as pitch shift to the >loop. I understand they're working on their next generation of >machines now. They'll probably be able to iron shirts as the >same time! No, I was not aware. As always, there is the question left: Are there loop functions, like Tap, Multiply...? An interface to save the samples? Thanks Matthias From ???@??? Tue Oct 08 22:24:49 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 8 22:22:46 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAr6T-00051T-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 22:22:45 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAr6U-0004j3-00; Tue, 8 Oct 1996 22:22:46 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 03:25:15 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: roots Resent-Message-ID: <"X6CouB.A.oXE.zYzWy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/422 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 1996 22:22:46 -0700 X-UIDL: 3a96d130437604dd079be01d99b47483 Dave sais brilliantely: >Sometimes we make music because we *have* to, not because we *want* >to. I've made a lot of music that I personally dislike, but I felt I >needed to make. I had a master (Steve Cooney) that listened to my early loops. At that time, when the loop "went wrong" because strange notes crept into the peacefull clima, I used to cut or fade out. But he told me to go on, because these notes I disliked were part of mine and I had to go through it. I did. I went into the most horrible screeming laments and realized that I always came out and usually to create a new theme, nicer than all before. With time, the horror parts became weaker, rarer - it IS therapy. Now they almost stopped. Also the necessity to play daily. Maybe I got too much envolved with the principles so it has become harder for me to just let loop. Now we use our no AC room where I play Kalimba and claypot... I had said: >> For me, there are the two phases: walking (traveling to places you only go >> once) and resting (come back to the same bed every night), developing and >> harvesting. Loops help for both, but are more obvious for the resting. >> Some of the nicest recording of mine happened *after* the loop had faded >> and I played real solo, but really relaxed and inspired because of the loop >> that before. And in those phases we often modulating like classical music >> without ever coming back. This "anti-loop" kind of music is very little >> explored. It asks for a lot of atention by the listener (not to miss the >> bus), while the loop kind just enters mind for free. >This makes me think of the Western classical theory ideals of tension >and resolution. In classical-descended music, this is done mostly >with harmony. I don't know how many jazz theory books I've read that >defined "movement" in terms of tension and resolution. The cool thing >about looping (and all the various repetitive, non-harmonic world >musics this theory implicitly ignores) is that you have motion WITHOUT >tension and resolution. The motion doesn't go away just because >you're not playing at the moment. The loop is still moving. And once >you've abandoned the idea of tension/resolution, you can abandon it >for the "walking", too. You can just play, without setting up clear >goals. Sorry, I only read about two books about music... Really advanced. I will have to explore that. So far I thought, relaxation only happens after tension. Or we do not look for relaxation. For what? Whatever we do, we grow out of it one day. In my perception really, there are not just the two phases of walking and resting, but four different main applications for music: Concentration (waiting, meditation...) Travel (searching, experience, crazyness...) Dance (energizing, partnership, body consciousness...) Praising (finale, overwhelming harmony, admiration, thanking...) >I was just thinking of the music of Edgar Varese. He often composed >for just percussion, or percussion and brass/woodwinds. One of my >favorites is a percussion/horn piece that just comes in waves and >waves of chaotic sound. It's a composed loop. I'm almost certain he >was trying to simulate the effect of a migraine headache. That's just >what it sounds like to me. Hurts like hell to listen to. Like tibetanian religious music? And does it do any good? I have this doubt for a long time: If helps me to listen to my own horror story, does that mean it can help somebody else too? I tend not to listen to "ugly" music exept of my own, sometimes. A matter of taste? >Yes, looping has obviously touched us all on some very deep level, as >musicians. We should think about this philosophically, to try to >understand our emotional reaction to this method of performance, >composition, and improvisation. Hope it really helps. For someone who is new in looping, those experiences, theories or "rules" that may result, do they expand or limit the horizon? Anyone? >Hope I haven't muddied the waters even more. Was there any mud? I love this kind of talk Mattias From ???@??? Wed Oct 09 01:29:52 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 9 01:00:13 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAtYq-0002Pn-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 01:00:12 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAtYq-0005by-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 01:00:12 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 09:59:05 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: The beginning.. In-Reply-To: <199610082053.NAA18984@pure.PureAtria.COM> Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"g4wGrD.A.OPF.Rt1Wy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/424 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 01:00:12 -0700 X-UIDL: bb54dff3e132b249ad7d1c90858758fa On Tue, 8 Oct 1996, Ray Peck wrote: > Olivier Malhomme writes: > >For this i have clues. I think it did ot ONLY started with tapes. I saw a > >video about composers in france in the beginning of the sixties, they had > >a whole laboratory that was to grow into an experimental plublic funded > >center od research on music and technologie with VERY state of the art > >technologie (like a using a Cray computer, wich far is from my Mac for > > Not to be critical, but for starters: > > 1. Musique Concrete started in the 30s, if not the 20s. > > 2. Crays did not exist in the sixties. > > p.s., Seymour Cray RIP (he died a couple days ago, complications of an > auto crash, 71 years old) > > > oory I did not make myself clear... This place is IRCAM, and they have always used state of the art technologie, like Cray computer a few years ago (not in the 60'). P. Schaeffer did these experiment with vinyl based loops in the 60'. I know it was not the beginning of concrete music (fun that infrench, concrete music is said musique concrete, though the two djectives (i.e french vs english) do not have the same meaning!), but it is certainly not my responsability... From ???@??? Wed Oct 09 10:10:10 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 9 06:36:07 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vAynu-00015X-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 06:36:06 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vAynu-0005Hi-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 06:36:06 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 09:31:29 -0400 From: KingsleyD@aol.com Message-ID: <961009093129_1178459408@emout01.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Indian classical music Resent-Message-ID: <"vFdU4C.A.I7E.xl6Wy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/425 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 06:36:06 -0700 X-UIDL: 591d5fc50be7beaed3d3f6af51c97db7 RE>> The Derek Bailey book Out of print? My local Borders has been stocking it; they have a couple of copies there even as we speak. I own a copy myself - it's well worth checking out. Interesting part is that the focus is *not* on jazz or blues improvisation; there's a chapter on church organ improv, something I recall listening to my grandfather practice as a young whippersnapper... BTW, another book worth reading (this one's hot off the press) is Simon Frith's "Performing Rites", which gives an impressively researched and thought out account of the value system(s) that are brought to bear on "pop" (i.e., non-"high art") music by its practitioners, its audience, the media, and the recording industry. It is dense and thoroughly academic, but Frith raises many issues worth pondering in terms of the relationships between and among: music - musician - audience - business. More analysis, less aphorisms than, say, Robert Fripp's musings. (Relationship to Fred Frith? Dunno...) --Kingsley From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 02:53:51 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 9 14:26:49 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vB69P-0007fs-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 14:26:47 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vB69P-0002Jh-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 14:26:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199610092125.OAA18034@scv1.apple.com> Subject: Re: Beginner questions Date: Wed, 9 Oct 96 14:30:15 -0000 x-sender: attix@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Tom Attix* To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"tvNgmC.A.DIC.MgBXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/434 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 14:26:47 -0700 X-UIDL: 57ecba3a631845183e7d6c2a89ce1cd7 > yet I understand the JamMan can only process >one of it's stereo inputs. Actually, it's stereo in and out. It can't effect both channels with seperate sets of perameters, however. I'm playing my Stick through one and it works fine. I don't have MIDI, I think you're going to need an inline mixer for that no matter which route you decide to go. There are at least a few other Sticky Loopists on this list, maybe they can shed some light on the MIDI side of this. -Tom Attix _______________________________________________ attix@apple.com _______________________________________________ "Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps". - Emo Phillips From ???@??? Wed Oct 09 10:10:20 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 9 08:11:38 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vB0IL-0004dQ-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 08:11:37 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vB0IM-0005oC-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 08:11:38 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 11:07:51 -0400 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961009110747_205957857@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other points Resent-Message-ID: <"saANhC.A.paF.IA8Wy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/426 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 08:11:38 -0700 X-UIDL: d8eec3841c93a9fc00c7130d97ae1a3e Joe, I use a Vortex also, and my experience with it is somewhat similar to yours. The one exception being time (not patience) being the chief excuse for not delving more deeply into the unit. Though it seems to be fairly easy, I have more processors, instruments, and software in my rig than many whole bands have. It's hard to dive in and really get to know all of it intimately. I also have a wife, 3 kids, and a demanding job. I too would appreciate any help, short cuts, whatever that this group has to offer. Perhaps when the "archives" are published we can take advantage of all of this accumulated experience. Ted Killian From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 02:53:44 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 9 11:20:41 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vB3FI-00067o-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 11:20:40 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vB3FI-0000lN-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 11:20:40 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <961009093129_1178459408@emout01.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 11:17:05 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: delay tricks Resent-Message-ID: <"YBwm8.A.qq.ov-Wy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/431 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 11:20:40 -0700 X-UIDL: a9fc3a38aaa14acf83569be6289ba3e2 I use a counting method with a guitar (could be any instrument, though) & delay, which may be of interest, so I will try to communicate it here: Set delay to repeat only one time (ie. feedback at minimum), with a delay ~700 - 1000 ms (any longer can be done but it gets tricky). For this discussion I will use a 750 ms delay. (To get the feel for the delay time, I usually start out strumming muted strings, with quick, sharp strums). Break the delay time into an integer number of beats -- lets say 3. So, for this case strum every 250 ms. Now, play notes, instead of strum. Play a 4 note, repeating meoldy (ie. repeats every 1000 ms). Let s say the meoldy is DO RE ME FA. So, if we write the pattern on a time scale we get (you might need to stretch your window size to view this correctly): TIME 0 250 500 750 1000 1250 1500 1750 2000 BEATS 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 PLAY DO RE ME FA DO RE ME FA DO DELAY DO RE ME DO RE This creates an interesting harmonizing relationship between the performed notes and the delays. Now, play the notes of the melody on every 2nd beat (ie. half as fast), so you get: TIME 0 250 500 750 1000 1250 1500 1750 2000 BEATS 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 PLAY DO RE ME FA DO DELAY DO RE ME This creates an interesting "dynamic" pattern between the performed notes and the delay, like a question/answer type thing. Many of you probably get these rhythms, without counting it out. But counting it out has helped me to get some more complicated rhythms, that I wouldn't have been able to get otherwise. To communicate the pattern, I could use 3 numbers: Number of beats per delay time Number of beats between performed notes Number of notes in (repeated) melody So, for the first example, I would write it as (3, 1, 4). For the second example, I would write it as (3, 2, 4). It is the relationship of the first two numbers that creates the rhythmic quality. The third number will just affect the harmonic relationships, not the rhythmic relationships I have really enjoyed trying some more complex rhythms: (Let X = 1, for starters, ie. just repeat one note, or strum) (4, 5, X); (5, 4, X); (3, 5, X); (5, 3, X); (5, 2, X); (2, 5, X); (6, 5, X); (5, 6, X) ....etc. Some of these are tricky to play. It's easier with a sequencer and a delay that you can "dial in" the exact delay time. I just use a Jam Man though. For the larger first numbers, I use longer delay times. If the first number is 8 and my delay time is 1600 ms, I might strum every 800ms, then every 400 ms, then finally every 200 ms -- instead of trying to break 1600 ms up into 8 parts right off the bat. I hope this wasn't too confusing.....(or too anal)! - chris --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 02:53:39 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 9 10:18:03 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vB2Gf-00035P-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 10:18:01 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vB2Gh-0000H0-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 10:18:03 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 12:14:29 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner X-Sender: dstagner@icarus.icarus.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Amplification In-Reply-To: <961009162505_74164.3703_GHQ136-1@CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"-c6R-B.A.9M.B29Wy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/430 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 10:18:03 -0700 X-UIDL: 0644fc5763ce710f699ac35d3d4e4948 On 9 Oct 1996, Teed Rockwell wrote: > Paolo, > > I've tried both of your solutions. The built in line out from my amp sounds > better than no amp at all, but not as good as the sound of the amp itself. I > record by miking my big amp, and wish I had a small amp that had the same great > tone. Any suggestions? > Have you tried a Marshall or Kolbe speaker load box? These devices put a big reactive load on the amp, enough to preclude the need for a speaker (so they're big boxes with heat sinks, not some little teeny thing like the Red Box), and they make the power tubes behave they way guitarists expect. You can also use them to just drag the volume down to reasonable levels for your regular speakers. I've heard the Marshall Power Brake and it's quite impressive. There are also a few flea-power amps on the market these days for studio recording. You might want to look into one of those <10 watt amps, so you can drive the power tubes hard without driving the neighbors to violence. :} By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. -Charles Fort dstagner@icarus.net From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 02:53:59 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 9 16:00:25 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vB7c0-0004dD-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 16:00:24 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vB7bz-0003D2-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 16:00:23 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <325BF425.284797A9@ctron.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 14:46:04 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: Beginner questions Resent-Message-ID: <"g2gb7C.A.g-C.s4CXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/439 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 16:00:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 125b59680b4ecfdc6b24113b3c69f47e Rob Martino wrote: >So to start off, I wanted to get some basic ideas about the type >of equiment/cable configuration I would want to start with. >Playing Champman Stick, I have at least three outputs (bass, melody, >triggered synth), yet I understand the JamMan can only process >one of it's stereo inputs. So would the easiest thing to do be >simply having a small mixer to mix down from three or more to >one? Does the Echoplex allow multiple inputs? I reccommend using a mixer. If you run looping device off the effect SEND, then you can send only the signals you want to loop. Also, if you run the output of the looping device back into a mixer input channel, you can send that signal to other effects, through additional SENDS. The JamMan has stereo ins and outs (ie. it will preserve the stereo signal) but only loops in mono. THe echoplex has only mono in and out >Since I've hardly begun to get into this looping business, >the first thing I was envisioning myself doing was building up a 4 >or more layer loop (bass, rhythm, percussive sounds, synth), save that >off, solo over it for a while, start and build up another 4 layer loop, >save that, and maybe do this a few more times, then be able to >switch between the already constructed, layered loops as sections >of the song. I assume either the JamMan or Echoplex could do this? Yes, you can do this with both. >Geez, the funny thing is, this is the way I've been writing music >for years on a MIDI sequencer (build up layers into sections, then >use these section blocks to structure the song), but I didn't think >of using a looping device to do all this live until now! > >Is there anything else I need to consider in terms of configuring >inputs/outputs, or looping device features? The Echoplex is really a different beast than the JamMan. The JamMan does not have much in the way of editing features. The Echoplex has many, including UNDO, MULTIPLY, INVERT (ie. play the loop in reverse). For me, the UNDO, and MULTIPLY are extremely important features. PLus, the echoplex can be controlled via MIDI, whereas the JamMan is limited in its MIDI implementation: you can only sync it to a MIDI beat clock. Now that memory prices have come down, I feel that you get more for you dollar with the Echoplex: Jam Man w/ 32 sec will cost you ~$450 Echoplex w/ 108 sec will cost you ~$600 - Chris --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 02:53:50 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 9 14:09:23 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vB5sX-0006fJ-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 14:09:21 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vB5sZ-00029r-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 14:09:23 -0700 Sender: martino@ctron.com Message-Id: <325BF425.284797A9@ctron.com> Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 14:51:17 -0400 From: Rob Martino Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Beginner questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"b5TBfD.A.S9B.POBXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/433 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 14:09:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 9c4d597a6d3d507a61c83df393fb9113 After a couple years of knowing about looping devices such as the JamMan and Echoplex with little interest, in a sudden moment of revelation this week while playing guitar and thinking about my composition style I realized that these sort of devices are perfectly geared towards a lot of the musical things I do. So to start off, I wanted to get some basic ideas about the type of equiment/cable configuration I would want to start with. Playing Champman Stick, I have at least three outputs (bass, melody, triggered synth), yet I understand the JamMan can only process one of it's stereo inputs. So would the easiest thing to do be simply having a small mixer to mix down from three or more to one? Does the Echoplex allow multiple inputs? Since I've hardly begun to get into this looping business, the first thing I was envisioning myself doing was building up a 4 or more layer loop (bass, rhythm, percussive sounds, synth), save that off, solo over it for a while, start and build up another 4 layer loop, save that, and maybe do this a few more times, then be able to switch between the already constructed, layered loops as sections of the song. I assume either the JamMan or Echoplex could do this? Geez, the funny thing is, this is the way I've been writing music for years on a MIDI sequencer (build up layers into sections, then use these section blocks to structure the song), but I didn't think of using a looping device to do all this live until now! Is there anything else I need to consider in terms of configuring inputs/outputs, or looping device features? Thanks, Rob Martino From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 02:53:48 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 9 13:15:02 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vB51x-0003q3-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 13:15:01 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vB51w-0001fv-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 13:15:00 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 13:10:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610092010.NAA29691@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <961009162505_74164.3703_GHQ136-1@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: Amplification Resent-Message-ID: <"2X9cpB.A.PiB.OcAXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/432 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 13:15:00 -0700 X-UIDL: c6ceb3531f15acd4853a82b91f7100fd Teed Rockwell writes: >Paolo, > >I've tried both of your solutions. The built in line out from my amp sounds >better than no amp at all, but not as good as the sound of the amp itself. I >record by miking my big amp, and wish I had a small amp that had the same great >tone. Any suggestions? Have any folks on this list tried Holdsworth's Harness? From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 02:53:52 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 9 14:45:28 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vB6RS-0000q8-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 14:45:26 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vB6RS-0002Un-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 14:45:26 -0700 From: Jon Morris Message-Id: <199610092142.QAA29405@beacon.moontower.com> Subject: a good book To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 16:42:37 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <961009093129_1178459408@emout01.mail.aol.com> from "KingsleyD@aol.com" at Oct 9, 96 09:31:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xJ168B.A.UTC.cxBXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/435 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 14:45:26 -0700 X-UIDL: cae293bb813e211e29bb1b08da16ff12 another interesting book dealing heavily with improvisation: "Forces in Motion: Anthony Braxton and the meta-reality of creative music" by Graham Lock. Braxton hasn't done any "looping" as far as I'm aware, but there is a piece on his album "Six Compositions: Quartet" which has a ostinato pattern (basically a loop) that gets passed around from one member of the quartet to another, its track 3, "Composition No. 34." In the book, he talks a bit about what he calls a "pulse track" which is a kind of repeating pattern that usually has some space within it for some improvisation, but has a very steady rhythm. I think the ways in which he manipulates these pulse tracks in his compositions may be of interest to loopers. -Jon From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 02:53:54 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 9 14:51:42 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vB6XU-0001Cj-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 14:51:40 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vB6XU-0002Zg-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 14:51:40 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 14:45:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610092145.OAA10834@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <199610092142.QAA29405@beacon.moontower.com> Subject: a good book Resent-Message-ID: <"OUSR7.A.AXC.M1BXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/436 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 14:51:40 -0700 X-UIDL: 62c81798f7b9f01ef121b374fb0aac61 Jon Morris writes: >another interesting book dealing heavily with improvisation: Another is the new Eddie (Edwin) Prevost book (he's the percussion guy in the seminal non-idiomatic improv group AMM). I haven't started in yet, but I've heard it's great. From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 02:53:58 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 9 15:37:19 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vB7Fc-0003Rk-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 15:37:16 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vB7Fd-0002zi-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 15:37:17 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 20:37:42 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: roots Resent-Message-ID: <"HJlofC.A.GwC.fhCXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/438 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 15:37:17 -0700 X-UIDL: 38311db0cd275bf1e1f0d5e0e343f0a4 Chris said: >Apparently, Bach never "finished" his more complex fugues, ie. he never >carried out the piece to its logical completeness. He left that open for >the listener to do. If one was aware of the underlying pattern of the >music, he could finish the piece himself. > >I guess the point I am trying to make with all this is that there is a >dimension to a musical performance which involves how a piece is meaningful >to the listener. Music can be meaningful in so many ways. To me, looping >music (in particular) can be meaningful on an emotional level (perhaps, >repetition has something to do with this, like a mantra) and on an >intellectual level (perhaps, due to the complexity which results by >combining simple, fundamental parts). Do you say that music can be interesting for the not played parts? If we repeat a simple background, the listener starts to hear his own melody, even whistles (improvising) with it. So this would be a simple way to teach music improvisation to any one. Such music then does not carry its own message but a base for the listeners message (to himself?). Matthias From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 02:53:57 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 9 15:35:54 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vB7EH-0003OZ-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 15:35:53 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vB7EG-0002yc-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 15:35:52 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 20:37:47 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Books Resent-Message-ID: <"4MqIIC.A.TvC.RhCXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/437 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 15:35:52 -0700 X-UIDL: 4181963afe9c46e32830217094f9ee39 Dave cited: >The other source was a book by English free improvisor Derek Bailey, >called (appropriately enough) "Musical Improvisation". ... >Anyway, Bailey's book is a terrific read if >you can get it, but I'm sure it is long out of print. Gee - this is exactly one of the books I read, and really learned to valorize my consequently improvising work. The others are: Michael Hammel "?" Rudolf Steiner "Das Wesen des Musikalischen" Hazrat Inayat Khan (Sufi) "Music" Matthias From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 02:54:05 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 9 16:49:49 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vB8No-00076q-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 16:49:48 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vB8No-0003hm-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 16:49:48 -0700 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199610092344.QAA07649@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Amplification To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 16:44:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <199610092010.NAA29691@pure.PureAtria.COM> from "Ray Peck" at Oct 9, 96 01:10:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"12wrID.A._YD.3jDXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/440 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 16:49:48 -0700 X-UIDL: 29385bc121d68c8af1283afee5aa21b7 > Teed Rockwell writes: > >Paolo, > > > >I've tried both of your solutions. The built in line out from my amp sounds > >better than no amp at all, but not as good as the sound of the amp itself. I > >record by miking my big amp, and wish I had a small amp that had the same great > >tone. Any suggestions? > > > Have any folks on this list tried Holdsworth's Harness? I didn't get Teed's post, so here goes... Teed, did you try running parallel signals? That is, one signal going to the amp and remaining totally dry and the other going to effects, then mixing the dry and wet together at your mixer? Other ideas: 1. Use some kind of speaker out-to-line level converter. The Harness was designed for this and there may be other, similar devices that can do this. In any case, the idea is to use the _speaker_ out, _not_ the line out. An important ingredient of the tube amp sound is the way the power section interacts with the speaker(s). Perhaps someone else can better explain this... but for proper impedance matching, the device fools the amp into thinking it is sending a signal to the speaker so you get the full sound of the power section (which you _dont_ get using the line out). Here of course your little tube amp/head, preamp tubes and power tubes and all, becomes a preamp for driving the rest of your signal chain. 2. Use some kind of signal splitter at the output of the converter to produce at least two signals. Designate one to be your dry signal and send it straight through your mixer with no effects. Use your other signal(s) for the effects. This way, you get your full tone _and_ the wet sounds while still having the option of going to either extreme. 3. Another important component of the tube amp sound is the speaker cabinet. Yes, the best sound is gotten by miking the cabinet, but if portability is an issue, a device like the Red Box or some other speaker simulator in lieu of the massive 4x12 cabinet might warrant consideration. Note that the Harness does not have speaker simulation but many guitar effects boxes do. 4. Alternatively, use the signal splitter at the beginning of the signal chain. Send one signal to the little tube amp/amp head and the others to the signal processors (you may need preamps, if you use passive pickups, to preamplify your signals before they reach the processors, unless the processors themselves have built-in preamps). At the output of the little tube amp/amp head, use a Red Box, a direct box that you plug into the amp's speaker out that has built-in speaker simulation. Hope this helps, Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 02:54:12 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 9 20:00:09 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBBLz-00077c-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 20:00:07 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBBLy-0005d8-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 20:00:06 -0700 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199610100254.TAA09035@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: roots To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 19:54:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: from "Matthias" at Oct 9, 96 03:25:15 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"th-J8D.A.SOF.8VGXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/441 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 20:00:06 -0700 X-UIDL: f2cfaf4ab51cf088359e6103a99cf75b For what it's worth, this list has really turned me on to the idea of making lots of loops, saving them, and later assembling them into compositions. Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 02:54:15 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 9 22:26:49 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBDdw-000532-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 22:26:48 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBDdu-0007E8-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 22:26:46 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 01:23:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: ejmd@pop.erols.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ejmd@erols.com (Ed Drake) Subject: Re: Echoplex/Jamman/Books/Etc. Resent-Message-ID: <"ct3pCB.A.xuG.qhIXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/442 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 22:26:46 -0700 X-UIDL: f975ed1691d994724e17e5639c708691 Chris Chovit wrote: > PLus, the >echoplex can be controlled via MIDI, whereas the JamMan is limited in its >MIDI implementation: you can only sync it to a MIDI beat clock. Now that >memory prices have come down, I feel that you get more for you dollar with >the Echoplex: > >Jam Man w/ 32 sec will cost you ~$450 >Echoplex w/ 108 sec will cost you ~$600 Chris , where did you get your 108 sec 'Plex ? The best price I've heard lately is $575 for 12 sec model incl. footswitch. Also Ram prices have risen a bit lately and 4Mb chips for the 'Plex are $43 from Chip Merchants. They have had the lowest prices I've seen. So that would be $172 more to fully load it at 198 sec. Also, although the MIDI implementation for the JamMan is limited and I'd bet not as extensive as the 'Plexs' , you can do a bit more than just sync to a MIDI clock. There are 20 program change messages you can send to cover things such as tap, layer,mute, fading loops , cueing loops,etc. I really envy you guys with the Echoplexes as it will probably be a while before I can afford one and I'm really lusting for one. Matthias was the book you mentioned by Peter Michael Hamel called " Through Music to the Self " ? A couple of other books worth mentioning are two by Joachim- Ernst Berendt called " Nada Brahma- The World is Sound " and "The Third Ear" , and one by R. Murray Schafer called " The Soundscape - Our Sonic Environment and the Tuning of the World ". ( I wonder if Fripp coined his recent loops from this title?). Some of these get a little esoteric and/or metaphysical. One thing I've noticed about loops are their meditational or trance inducing qualities. And speaking of trance inducing has anyone checked out the recent release by Michael Brook and Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan called " Night Song " ? Loops and vocals with tablas and other stuff. Nice. Loop on Ed Drake From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 02:54:21 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 9 23:37:19 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBEkA-0007c4-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 23:37:18 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBEkB-0000Gf-00; Wed, 9 Oct 1996 23:37:19 -0700 Date: 10 Oct 96 02:32:13 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: hum cancelling Message-ID: <961010063213_100041.247_JHB77-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"0xJYzD.A.GN.gjJXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/443 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 23:37:19 -0700 X-UIDL: da593fe7c1e5c6cc16db21c1e3a2f093 I'm having continuous problems with humming. With my setup slowly getting more elaborate and containing more devices and cables, it's getting worse, and I'm already at the point where the humming is so bad I can't do any recordings at home which are good enough for publication. I would love to get one of these new 8-track disc recording machines, and make my own CD-ready recordings, but as long as there is audible humming no matter what I do, this wouldn't be worth it. Any general ideas what to do about this? Simply turning around the cables doesn't seem to help. Is there hope at all? Is it possible to run a heap of devices (2 computers, recorders, tuner/amplifiers and CD players, an old Minimoog, sampler, DAT, loop delays, volume and other pedals, Vortex, guitars, reverb) connected by a jungle of cables, without having any disturbing hums? There's not enough space and I can't afford setting up a professional studio in my room. -Michael From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 02:54:22 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 01:16:36 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBGIF-0002M1-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 01:16:35 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBGIE-0001O1-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 01:16:34 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:13:59 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: The hidden parts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"eudEMD.A.7QB.aBLXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/444 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 01:16:34 -0700 X-UIDL: 64c68fcdd981cb066080648f95624caf I do think that music like language has an interesting part of its content in the "non-said", a fonction of implicit. Thins was too me a major lack in the structuralist theory, to forget this part of the language. I of course can say exactly the same word with the same tone to 2 different people and convey 2 different meanings. By the same way if you change a sentence A, it changes obviuosly the sense of the B one following. Implicit require an agreement, even implicit (!) between the , at least, 2 persons concerned. Maybe we are tempted to forget that music has got this implicit part too, and that we should not demonstrate every "word". It require a certain amount of trust for in the listener (whoops). It is clear that J.S. Bach was master of this. It is very clear too in the cello sonatas where you can actually hear sometimes 2, 3 voices playing and developpinf their counter point although the lines are almost monophonic all the time. You could spend anyway time to write down in extenso each voice, and you would write down a lot more than what it's written in the score. So, most of the music is not said, "implicit", so and you can perfectly "hear"it. That require certainly, I guess a level of work that is far beyond the common. Most of people I know (including me, of course) are just ar best mastering the obvious. Olivier From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 10:28:34 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 05:12:10 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBJyD-000615-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:12:09 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBJyC-0001NZ-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:12:08 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:06:01 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: delay tricks Resent-Message-ID: <"qff1FD.A.LHB.ScOXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/445 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:12:08 -0700 X-UIDL: ab14b105f429a93735467c86149c809d >I use a counting method with a guitar (could be any instrument, though) & >delay, which may be of interest, so I will try to communicate it here: > >I hope this wasn't too confusing.....(or too anal)! > >- chris > Not to me, I thought it was really interesting. I like your approach of representing a musical idea as a particular symbolic/algorithmic approach, extending the algorithm in obvious ways, and reapplying that to the musical idea. Allows you to find new things that would have been missed in praxis. I've started doing similar things with polyrhythms lately. I think of a particular beat division I want to work with (fives lately) and another beat division to cross it with (five over two, say). I'm not good enough rhythmically to play something like 5:2 right off the bat, so I carefully figure out all the subdivisions and the locations of each strike. Then I practice it slowly and build the tempo as I get the feel. Great way to pass time in boring meetings and irritate co-workers! I think I might try combining this with your ideas to make some more complex polyrhythmic loops! With the echoplex its pretty easy to get a couple of them synced together in cross rhythms, using midi clock and different 8ths/beat settings. there are also ways to do it with BrotherSync. I assume you've tried this sort of thing? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 10:28:31 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 05:11:47 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBJxq-00060a-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:11:46 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBJxp-0001MX-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:11:45 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:06:03 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Amplification Resent-Message-ID: <"PzLWk.A.cHB.UcOXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/446 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:11:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 18158783c9ebdb73bc4836a9ebfaba72 >On 9 Oct 1996, Teed Rockwell wrote: > >> Paolo, >> >> I've tried both of your solutions. The built in line out from my amp sounds >> better than no amp at all, but not as good as the sound of the amp itself. I >> record by miking my big amp, and wish I had a small amp that had the >>same great >> tone. Any suggestions? >> > >Have you tried a Marshall or Kolbe speaker load box? These devices >put a big reactive load on the amp, enough to preclude the need for a >speaker (so they're big boxes with heat sinks, not some little teeny >thing like the Red Box), and they make the power tubes behave they way >guitarists expect. You can also use them to just drag the volume down >to reasonable levels for your regular speakers. I've heard the >Marshall Power Brake and it's quite impressive. I've heard good things about the THD hotplate and Holdworth's Harness. I've heard negative impressions of the Marshall. Is this the same one they've had for a while? I'll probably end up using some such device to feed my loops, now that I'm irrevocably becoming a tube amp geek. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 10:28:33 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 05:11:59 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBJy2-00060u-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:11:58 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBJy1-0001My-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:11:57 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:06:05 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: hum cancelling Resent-Message-ID: <"dzwDh.A.8HB.acOXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/447 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:11:57 -0700 X-UIDL: f93f54b20a0422e3e9f88874a327ca5e >I'm having continuous problems with humming. With my setup slowly getting >more elaborate and containing more devices and cables, it's getting worse, >and I'm already at the point where the humming is so bad I can't do any >recordings at home which are good enough for publication. I would love to >get one of these new 8-track disc recording machines, and make my own >CD-ready recordings, but as long as there is audible humming no matter what >I do, this wouldn't be worth it. > >Any general ideas what to do about this? Simply turning around the cables >doesn't seem to help. Is there hope at all? Is it possible to run a heap of >devices (2 computers, recorders, tuner/amplifiers and CD players, an old >Minimoog, sampler, DAT, loop delays, volume and other pedals, Vortex, >guitars, reverb) connected by a jungle of cables, without having any >disturbing hums? There's not enough space and I can't afford setting up >a professional studio in my room. > >-Michael It's possible to fix these problems, some ideas off the top of my head: 1. Make sure you have isolation washers on all your rack gear so you don't get ground loops through the rack. 2. Keep all the audio cables as seperate from the power cables as possible. If they must cross, make sure they are perpindicular. 3. Make sure all your audio cables are good quality and have a shield. Use balance cables when you can. 4. Computers, and especially monitors, are likely to cause hum, try to keep some distance between them. 5. keep cables as short as possible. 6. Try to create a star ground, where you start from a single outlet and create a star of power/ground lines coming out. 7. DON'T PULL THE GROUND PINS!!!! People often try to solve hum problems by lifting the grounds. This is dangerous, don't do it! You can get shocked this way. 8. If you still have a problem, try taking things out of your system one at a time to isolate the source of the hum. If you find it, try moving it elsewhere to seperate it from the other stuff. 9. Don't use flourescent lights or dimmer switches. hope this helps, kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 10:28:30 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 05:11:41 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBJxk-00060G-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:11:40 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBJxk-0001MJ-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:11:40 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:06:07 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Beginner questions Resent-Message-ID: <"PVdMBC.A.NIB.ccOXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/448 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:11:40 -0700 X-UIDL: e24445bc55acb4434690645c1e67d3d6 >The JamMan has stereo ins and outs (ie. it will preserve the stereo signal) >but only loops in mono. THe echoplex has only mono in and out The echoplex has syncing abilities so you can easily set up two of them for stereo. Or more than two for multi-track looping. Depends on your gear budget of course... >>Since I've hardly begun to get into this looping business, >>the first thing I was envisioning myself doing was building up a 4 >>or more layer loop (bass, rhythm, percussive sounds, synth), save that >>off, solo over it for a while, start and build up another 4 layer loop, >>save that, and maybe do this a few more times, then be able to >>switch between the already constructed, layered loops as sections >>of the song. I assume either the JamMan or Echoplex could do this? > >Yes, you can do this with both. You can have up to 9 loops in the echoplex. Their lengths can independent of each other, which I don't think is true of the jamman. You can also copy audio or the time base from one to another. You can switch to any loop you like, rather than just cycling through them, and you can trigger them with midi like a sampler. It works quite well for your idea of creating compositions with different loops for each section, and switching between them at will. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 10:28:28 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 05:11:08 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBJxD-0005zF-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:11:07 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBJxC-0001JH-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:11:06 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:06:09 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Echoplex/Jamman/Books/Etc. Resent-Message-ID: <"--yUqB.A.xIB.icOXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/449 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 05:11:06 -0700 X-UIDL: 27f1c210283f5cc10e1022841bc6e450 >Chris Chovit wrote: > >> PLus, the >>echoplex can be controlled via MIDI, whereas the JamMan is limited in its >>MIDI implementation: you can only sync it to a MIDI beat clock. Now that >>memory prices have come down, I feel that you get more for you dollar with >>the Echoplex: >> >>Jam Man w/ 32 sec will cost you ~$450 >>Echoplex w/ 108 sec will cost you ~$600 > > Chris , where did you get your 108 sec 'Plex ? The best price I've heard >lately is $575 for 12 sec model incl. footswitch. Also Ram prices have >risen a bit lately and 4Mb chips for the 'Plex are $43 from Chip Merchants. >They have had the lowest prices I've seen. So that would be $172 more to >fully load it at 198 sec. I'm pretty sure I saw 4meggers for $28 just a week ago. You can probably bargain people down if you try. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 10:28:47 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 06:52:43 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBLXW-0000U0-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 06:52:42 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBLXV-0002Ci-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 06:52:41 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:55:42 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) Message-Id: <199610101355.JAA10930@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Beginner questions X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"auHW-.A.qCC.K9PXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/450 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 06:52:41 -0700 X-UIDL: 7b4761308757862d1a894c4099903f53 >The JamMan has stereo ins and outs (ie. it will preserve the stereo signal) >but only loops in mono. Does this mean that it will loop the stereo signal as one dual signal but it cant loop one side differently than the other? Is the 32 second maximum only for a true mono signal? In other words, is the max loop time cut in half (to 16 seconds) if you're using a stereo signal? Clark From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 10:28:51 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 07:04:13 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBLie-0000mP-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 07:04:12 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBLie-0002Kq-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 07:04:12 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:07:09 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) Message-Id: <199610101407.KAA10936@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: hum cancelling X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"bImbQ.A.EKC.jHQXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/451 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 07:04:12 -0700 X-UIDL: f268b5235161e2683af63b090d620c3a Theres a little $50 box by ebtech which claims to eliminate all hum. It is stereo too. I think i saw it in either the Musicians Friend or AMS catalog. Clark From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 10:29:18 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 10:12:41 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBOf1-0001nF-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:12:39 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBOez-0004hx-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:12:37 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:09:18 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: Echoplex/Jamman/Books/Etc. Resent-Message-ID: <"ws01sD.A.SXE.51SXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/461 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:12:37 -0700 X-UIDL: b3fe4e307f86d308d7e7d3fbfdf13c3d > Chris , where did you get your 108 sec 'Plex ? The best price I've heard >lately is $575 for 12 sec model incl. footswitch. Also Ram prices have >risen a bit lately and 4Mb chips for the 'Plex are $43 from Chip Merchants. >They have had the lowest prices I've seen. So that would be $172 more to >fully load it at 198 sec. I got my 'plex thru Manny's music for $479 (not including the foot pedal -- that was $70 or $80 more). I based my memory price on Kim's $30 / 4 MB quote. --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 10:28:53 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 07:16:40 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBLuh-0001Ac-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 07:16:39 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBLuh-0002WD-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 07:16:39 -0700 Message-Id: <199610101414.AB22346@internet-mail.ford.com> From: "Steven R. Murrell" To: "'Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com'" Subject: RE: Beginner questions Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:12:05 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Resent-Message-ID: <"oTowzD.A.GVC.STQXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/452 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 07:16:39 -0700 X-UIDL: 93760237961d84d1448de36766e60e55 Rob Martino wrote: > I understand the JamMan can only process > one of it's stereo inputs. The JamMan Processes BOTH sides of the stereo input but sums them into the loop/delay. What you get is real time stereo "through" and summed delay/loop. Sometimes this can be a nice effect, but I have to admit, I would prefer to have the ability to loop in stereo where each channel could be separately controlled. Steve Murrell smurrell@ford.com From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 10:28:55 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 07:26:01 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBM3k-0001UC-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 07:26:00 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBM3j-0002ch-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 07:25:59 -0700 Sender: martino@ctron.com Message-Id: <325D0839.5656AEC7@ctron.com> Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:29:13 -0400 From: Rob Martino Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Beginner questions References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"4J1D8.A.abC.sbQXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/453 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 07:25:59 -0700 X-UIDL: 5cdefb69e52acc813d0cbe45510f6ea7 Chris Chovit wrote: > > Rob Martino wrote: > > >So to start off, I wanted to get some basic ideas about the type > >of equiment/cable configuration I would want to start with. > >Playing Champman Stick, I have at least three outputs (bass, melody, > >triggered synth), yet I understand the JamMan can only process > >one of it's stereo inputs. So would the easiest thing to do be > >simply having a small mixer to mix down from three or more to > >one? Does the Echoplex allow multiple inputs? > > I reccommend using a mixer. If you run looping device off the effect SEND, > then you can send only the signals you want to loop. Also, if you run the > output of the looping device back into a mixer input channel, you can send > that signal to other effects, through additional SENDS. Can you recommend a simple one or two space rack mixer that would be suitable for this? Is it a situation where I would want certain effects (like reverb) to be after the looping device, to prevent the overdubs from sounding to muddy? Next question: will the Echoplex let you create polyrythmic loops, so that you could do one loop in 4/4, and another in 3/4 on top of it so that you'd have a scontinual shifting sort of effect going on? Thanks everyone for the helpful info. Rob Martino From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 10:28:58 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 07:54:54 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBMVh-0002Z3-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 07:54:53 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBMVh-0002y2-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 07:54:53 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:50:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner X-Sender: dstagner@icarus.icarus.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: hum cancelling In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"gXGv4B.A.ttC.N1QXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/454 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 07:54:53 -0700 X-UIDL: 9b71493be2532306f73a0531a9bb950d Wow, it's hard to add anything to what Kim said! He hit on just about all the major points for beating hum. I'll add one he overlooked, and emphasize a few I think are particularly important... First, you didn't say what sort of instrument/pickups you use. A guitar with single coil pickups? Start right there, and go to stacked humbuckers. They don't sound as good as real single coils, but they're quiet. This was one of the first changes I made when I started with looping. I got a set of Carvin stacked humbuckers for my Strat and they worked wonders. While you're at it, make sure your guitar is WELL shielded and uses high-quality shielded wire internally. Lots of guitars are noisy even with humbuckers. I'll repeat Kims admonition to use high-quality shielded cable and plugs. Use XLR balanced connectors whenever possible... their whole purpose is hum rejection, and they do it very well. And avoid flourescent lights whenever possible. And computer monitors. Cross audio cables perpendicular to power lines. Make sure your rack stuff isn't ground-looping through the rack or physical contact. This reminds me of a story... a few years ago, I saw Steve Tibbetts (a very subtle looper in his own right) on tour. Something in his electric guitar system hummed severely, which pretty much confined him to acoustic guitar (looping hum SUCKS). At one point during the concert, he made a comment about a "ghost in the machine". Then, about 30 seconds into the next song, one of the PA speakers tipped forward and fell off the stage, with a resounding thud. Luckily, no one was hurt. Much to Steve Tibbetts and Marc Andersen's credit, they kept on playing without breaking stride. :} Ghost in the machine indeed! -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. -Charles Fort dstagner@icarus.net From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 10:28:59 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 08:24:11 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBMy1-0003mz-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 08:24:09 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBMy1-0003Fo-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 08:24:09 -0700 Sender: martino@ctron.com Message-Id: <325D1559.4A7B7C1D@ctron.com> Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:25:13 -0400 From: Rob Martino Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Beginner questions References: <325D0839.5656AEC7@ctron.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"zhdsbB.A.HAD.qQRXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/455 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 08:24:09 -0700 X-UIDL: d23282504695da083d35065eddb17d92 Rob Martino wrote: > Can you recommend a simple one or two space rack mixer that would be suitable > for this? Is it a situation where I would want certain effects (like reverb) > to be after the looping device, to prevent the overdubs from sounding to > muddy? In response to myself, Actually I was thinking, maybe I could get away with using my keyboard amp. My typical Sunday morning at church setup is have my processed guitar and synth running to the amp inputs, with more gain on the guitar to match the synth volume. My amp (Barbetta Sona 32c) has an effects send and return (very simple, no way to change send level). But could I just have this go to the Echoplex, and have it's output go to the amp return, making sure the signal from the Echoplex matches the volume of the instruments going into the amp? Maybe not as flexible as having a mixer in my rack, but good enough for now if I can get away with it... Rob Martino From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 10:29:03 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 08:43:40 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBNGt-0004lu-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 08:43:39 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBNGo-0003SC-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 08:43:34 -0700 Sender: martino@ctron.com Message-Id: <325D1A19.31D2DE92@ctron.com> Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:45:29 -0400 From: Rob Martino Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Echoplex heating up? References: <199610101414.AB22346@internet-mail.ford.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1p_EBB.A.GMD.8jRXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/456 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 08:43:34 -0700 X-UIDL: 087910bd58dd45d63d706bdc88ad273b I noticed on Harmony Central effects reviews that a user had a thermal problem with the Echoplex containing a full 16MB of memory, so that some of the controls would not respond. Has anyone had this problem, and also heard of possible solutions? Rob From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 10:29:17 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 10:00:56 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBOTg-0001Fh-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:00:56 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBOTf-0004a6-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:00:55 -0700 Message-Id: <9610101700.AA25708@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com> X-Sender: cavaleri@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 08:55:35 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Joe Cavaleri Subject: Re: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other points Resent-Message-ID: <"0N3RgD.A.zPE.nqSXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/460 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:00:55 -0700 X-UIDL: 4b3870527e03c24e71f29c72f5c26664 I think I've found their web site. Try http://www.radiox.net/sponsors/gtrcenter/gtrcenter.html Let me know if this works, if not I'll get their phone # to you Good luck joe At 11:59 AM 10/10/96 -0400, you wrote: >> Joe ... you mention the Guitar Center having the vortex for 150 >>... who are they and how do I get in touch with them > >Paul > > > > > > From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 10:29:07 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 09:09:12 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBNfX-00061i-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:09:07 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBNeB-0003o9-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:07:43 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:59:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other points Resent-Message-ID: <"WQCFfC.A.OcD.42RXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/457 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:07:43 -0700 X-UIDL: db855c8c320a8a7ff4ec52a6b4a4dd34 > Joe ... you mention the Guitar Center having the vortex for 150 >... who are they and how do I get in touch with them Paul From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 10:29:09 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 09:26:46 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBNwb-00079A-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:26:45 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBNwb-0004AA-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:26:45 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 12:10:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: hum cancelling Resent-Message-ID: <"Yk_lmB.A.T1D.NMSXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/458 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:26:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 298bc28ec7cc445c8bb41554be77d3e3 >>I'm having continuous problems with humming. With my setup slowly getting >>more elaborate and containing more devices and cables, it's getting worse, >>and I'm already at the point where the humming is so bad I can't do any >>recordings at home which are good enough for publication. I would love to >>get one of these new 8-track disc recording machines, and make my own >>CD-ready recordings, but as long as there is audible humming no matter what >>I do, this wouldn't be worth it. >> >>Any general ideas what to do about this? Simply turning around the cables >>doesn't seem to help. Is there hope at all? Is it possible to run a heap of >>devices (2 computers, recorders, tuner/amplifiers and CD players, an old >>Minimoog, sampler, DAT, loop delays, volume and other pedals, Vortex, >>guitars, reverb) connected by a jungle of cables, without having any >>disturbing hums? There's not enough space and I can't afford setting up >>a professional studio in my room. >> >>-Michael > I have found that alot of hum can be cause by AC strips and/or the particular placement of wall-warts in relation to other wall warts or AC strips. Move things around and see how the hum changes. I don't think it is cabling From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 10:29:15 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 09:48:40 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBOHn-0000Yu-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:48:39 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBOHm-0004RD-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:48:38 -0700 Sender: martino@ctron.com Message-Id: <325D2967.2D857063@ctron.com> Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 12:50:47 -0400 From: Rob Martino Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: hum cancelling References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xu4QB.A.6HE.AhSXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/459 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 09:48:38 -0700 X-UIDL: 0c071ab34503511e3d4d63793b1b0b29 Paul Poplawski, Phd wrote: > >>Any general ideas what to do about this? Simply turning around the cables > >>doesn't seem to help. Is there hope at all? Is it possible to run a heap of > >>devices (2 computers, recorders, tuner/amplifiers and CD players, an old > >>Minimoog, sampler, DAT, loop delays, volume and other pedals, Vortex, > >>guitars, reverb) connected by a jungle of cables, without having any > >>disturbing hums? There's not enough space and I can't afford setting up > >>a professional studio in my room. > >> > >>-Michael > > > > I have found that alot of hum can be cause by AC strips and/or the > particular placement of wall-warts in relation to other wall warts or AC > strips. Move things around and see how the hum changes. I don't think it > is cabling Maybe you could get one of those line conditioners like Furman or ETA which does EMI/RFI interference filtering? I have a Furman PL-8 which can be bought for around $100, there might be others for a little less. This won't help for noisy guitar pickups though. Rob Martino From ???@??? Fri Oct 11 02:07:56 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 10:35:24 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBP0y-0002yg-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:35:20 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBP0w-0005Eo-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:35:18 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 13:31:24 -0400 From: KRosser414@aol.com Message-ID: <961010133124_123458371@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other points Resent-Message-ID: <"bLJ75C.A.t3E.tMTXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/469 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:35:18 -0700 X-UIDL: b2ededf42917eb3309a424cfd5c6d0b2 In a message dated 96-10-10 13:00:06 EDT, you write: > Joe ... you mention the Guitar Center having the vortex for 150 >>>... who are they and how do I get in touch with them Last time I was there the GC in Hollywood had a few dozen in a stack for $149 each. I don't know what their relationship to mail order is, but their phone # is (213) 874-1060. Along these lines, anyone know where I can get ahold of a TC Electronics Sustain/Para Eq pedal? Thanks, Ken From ???@??? Fri Oct 11 02:08:26 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 13:46:28 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBRzt-0004Kj-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 13:46:25 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBRzr-0007Q9-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 13:46:23 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <961010133124_123458371@emout05.mail.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 13:45:12 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: TC Sustain and noise in general Resent-Message-ID: <"kQ51YC.A.a7G.KAWXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/477 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 13:46:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 2c7950df5b4a714ce8252940d3ed8612 > Along these lines, anyone know where I can get ahold of a TC Electronics > Sustain/Para Eq pedal? I don;t think he has one now, but check with Analog Mike from time to time. He's got lots of vintage guitar effects listed on the web, available for purchase: http://users.aol.com/AnalogMike/stock.htm ALso, if you live in the LA area, there's always The Recycler: http://www.recycler.com --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Fri Oct 11 02:08:16 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 11:29:56 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBPrn-0005jq-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:29:55 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBPrm-00063l-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:29:54 -0700 Date: 10 Oct 96 14:15:06 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: hum cancelling Message-ID: <961010181506_100041.247_JHB91-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"zQ4yqC.A.tlF.R-TXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/475 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:29:54 -0700 X-UIDL: d295709d9b4b902b485f81e1f0bb0eb5 Thanks to Kim and everyone else for the "hum cancelling" tips. I'll see what I can do. Hum cancelling devices: I'll ask a friend who works in an electronics shop if he knows something about it. Problem is, I live in Germany and the devices you mentioned are probably not available/applicable here. Guitar picks are not the problem, there is hum without guitars as well. I guess I have to rewire everything ... Hey, it's great to participate in a mailing list which is so responding! Thanks again. BTW, got my Vortex today, thanks to all the people in this list who talked about it and turned me on to it. -M From ???@??? Fri Oct 11 02:08:13 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 11:27:08 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBPp5-0005cZ-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:27:07 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBPp4-00060E-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:27:06 -0700 Date: 10 Oct 96 14:15:08 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Boomerang Message-ID: <961010181508_100041.247_JHB91-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"0XK2gB.A.XlF.I-TXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/474 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:27:06 -0700 X-UIDL: c3198de63c505e9639796acea1456068 Boomerang question: 1. Who knows the address of the manufacturing company? We'd like to contact them because we might want to import them into Germany. 2. Who has got one and can tell me about it? For some reason, this list talks about Echoplex and Jamman, but almost never about other devices. Can the Boomerang be compared to the Echoplex? -Michael From ???@??? Fri Oct 11 02:08:09 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 11:22:22 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBPkR-0005P8-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:22:19 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBPkQ-0005sb-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:22:18 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 14:15:14 -0400 From: "S. Patrick Hickey" Message-Id: <199610101815.OAA10528@nielsenmedia.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Guitar Center Resent-Message-ID: <"R36UC.A.rWF.K2TXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/473 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:22:19 -0700 X-UIDL: a92f26d112d1da6587ed3270eb62bc4c Here, again, more info on Guitar Center. OK, so the title of the original posting was "Re: Walls of the Vortex"... Pat ***SPH brzrkr@nielsenmedia.com California: Guitar Center El Cerrito 10300 San Pablo Ave. El Cerrito Ave, CA 94530 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (510) 559-1055 Manager: Sammy Moir Guitar Center Brea 606 South Brea Blvd. Brea, CA 92621 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (714) 672-0103 Manager: Mike Margolis Guitar Center Covina 1054 North Azusa Ave. Covina, CA 91722 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (818) 967-7911 Manager: Danny Thompson Guitar Center Fountain Valley 18361 Euclid Street Fountain Valley, CA 92708 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (714) 241-9140 Manager: Don Rodrigues Guitar Center Hollywood 7425 Sunset Blvd. Hollywood, CA 90046 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (213) 874-1060 Manager: George Lampos Guitar Center Pleasant Hill 2233 Contra Costa Blvd. Plesent Hill, CA 94523 Store Hours: M-F 11-8, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (510) 825-8880 Manager: Joe Mullinax Guitar Center South Bay 4525 Artesia Blvd. Lawndale, CA 90260 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (310) 542-9444 Manager: Brian Thoryk Guitar Center San Bernardino 720 South "E" Street San Bernardino, CA 92408 Store Hours: M-F 10-8, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (909) 383-3700 Manager: Tod Ericsson Guitar Center San Diego 6533 El Cajon Blvd. San Diego, CA 92115 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (619) 583-9751 Manager: Steve Harder Guitar Center San Francisco 1321 Mission Street San Francisco, CA 94103 Store Hours: M-F 11-8, Sat. 10-7, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (415) 626-7655 Manager: Breck Diebel Guitar Center San Marcos 733 Center Dr.. San Marcos, CA 92069 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone:(619) 735-8050 Manager:Scott Black Guitar Center San Jose 3430 Stevens Creek Blvd. San Jose, CA 95117 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (408) 249-0455 Manager: Reed Williams Guitar Center Sherman Oaks 14760 Ventura Blvd. Sherman Oaks, CA 91403 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (818) 990-8332 Manager: Jeff Josephson Florida: Guitar Center Hallandale 1101 West Hallandale Beach Blvd. Hallandale, FL 33009 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-7, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (954) 456-7890 Manager: Ron Bicknell Guitar Center Miami 7736 North Kendall Dr. Miami, FL 33156 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-7, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (305) 271-2600 Manager: Dan Hansen Illinois: Guitar Center Central Chicago 3228 Clark Street Chicago, Ilinois 60657 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (312) 327-5687 Manager: Dave Lewark Guitar Center N. Chicago 2375 S. Arlington Heights Rd. Arlington Heights, IL 60005 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (847) 439-4600 Manager: Gary Rice Guitar Center S. Chicago 8250 South Cicero Burbank, IL 60459 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (708) 422-1400 Manager: Tony Buffalo Guitar Center Villa Park 298 West Roosevelt Road Villa Park, Ilinois 60181 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (630) 832-2800 Manager: Tony Buffalo Massachusetts: Guitar Center Boston 750 Commonwealth Ave. Boston, MA 02215 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (617) 738-5958 Manager: Peter Schuelzky Guitar Center Danvers 120 Andover Street Danvers, MA 01923 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 11-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (508) 777-1950 Manager:Freddy Gilfeather Michigan: Guitar Center Detroit 30530 Gratiot Ave. Detroit, MI 48066 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (810) 296-6161 Manager: Kenric Knecht Guitar Center Southfield 29555 Northwestern Hwy. Southfield, MI 48034 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 11-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (810) 354-8075 Manager: Rahn Wolf Minnesota: Guitar Center Twin Cities 2059 North Snelling Roseville, MN 55113 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (612) 631-9420 Manager: Jerry Grote Texas: Guitar Center Arlington 721 Ryan Plaza Drive Arlington, TX 76011 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 11-7, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (817) 277-3510 Manager: Tim Lovick Guitar Center Dallas 14080 Dallas Parkway Dallas, TX 75240 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-7, Sun. 11-6 Phone: (214) 960-0011 Manager: Randy Singleton Guitar Center Houston 7729 Westheimer Road Houston, TX 77063 Store Hours: M-F 10-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (713) 952-9070 Manager: Don Kelsey Guitar Center N. Houston 16745 North Freeway Houston, TX 77090 Store Hours: M-F 11-9, Sat. 10-6, Sun. 12-6 Phone: (713) 537-9100 Manager: Jim Moon From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 10:29:26 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 10:28:33 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBOuO-0002df-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:28:32 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBOuM-00056L-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:28:30 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:21:31 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Echoplex/Jamman/Books/Etc. Resent-Message-ID: <"O_L15B.A.DoE.bETXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/465 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:28:30 -0700 X-UIDL: 55f31af15a686edbc31699fee4596499 Ed knows the book: >Matthias was the book you mentioned by Peter Michael Hamel called " Through >Music to the Self " ? > Thats it, thank you! > Michael Brook and Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan called " Night >Song " ? Loops and vocals with tablas and other stuff. Nice. What a pity I have no access to records down here. Nusrat fascinates me for a long time. I have seen him once with his traditional band in Basel, half the public beeing his people (Pakistani?). I loved it and suddenly could not stand it any more and had to leave. Serious stuff! Matthias From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 10:29:27 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 10:29:11 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBOv1-0002fk-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:29:11 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBOuy-00057p-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:29:08 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:21:35 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: The hidden parts Resent-Message-ID: <"zvUGz.A.urE.qGTXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/467 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:29:08 -0700 X-UIDL: b163d3780619b965e8db39a2a969e69f Olivier: >I do think that music like language has an interesting part of its content >in the "non-said", a fonction of implicit. ... >You could spend anyway time to write down in extenso each voice, and you >would write down a lot more than what it's written in the score. So, most >of the music is not said, "implicit", so and you can perfectly "hear"it. > >That require certainly, I guess a level of work that is far beyond the >common. Most of people I know (including me, of course) are just ar best >mastering the obvious. So is it just beyond us? To do it perfectly consciously maybe. I often miss a note in a guitar line and then feel its not really missing, maybe even a charmy whole. What can we say in respect to "hidden loops"? -Some sound goes on although it faded out. We got so used to it that its "impossible" to fade it away. -Some sound maybe it not necessary to loop, because to suggest it once makes it stay. -Disconnected notes in a loop activate the listener to find "bridge notes" to smoth it out. Depending on context, different people find the same or different notes. So you can conform or shock by the next note you introduce to the loop. -...? Out of the moment Matthias From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 10:29:31 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 10:30:04 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBOvr-0002if-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:30:03 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBOvo-00058y-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:30:00 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:21:44 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: hum cancelling Resent-Message-ID: <"VPSXgB.A.6qE.WGTXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/466 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:30:00 -0700 X-UIDL: cafaa05caa45a8b62f60297c25e74f99 >7. DON'T PULL THE GROUND PINS!!!! People often try to solve hum problems >by lifting the grounds. This is dangerous, don't do it! You can get shocked >this way. Well, in whole Brasil you cannot find one ground pin, and this is a country where you do not use carpets but step bare foot on the ground, often wet. And I have not known of some one get killed because of 110V at home (often by open air stage structures, though!). But shocks we get every day, taking showers in good hotels... So in Germany, 230V is a bit more dangerous, but still... I have seen a lot of problems resolved by lifting the ground pins, especially with older equipment. Lately the equipment has some limited isolation between internal and safety ground which solves the problem. I guess Kim says that because the american legal system can charge him millions for saying what I just said... ;-) Nice collection of points, Kim! Matthias From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 10:29:23 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 10:26:57 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBOsp-0002Y6-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:26:55 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBOsm-00051y-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:26:52 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:21:49 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Amplification Resent-Message-ID: <"pneJjC.A.UnE.GETXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/464 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:26:52 -0700 X-UIDL: 797b3502ac9b8bd284cd013129c8594c >now that I'm irrevocably becoming a tube amp geek. > >kim you too my son ? From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 10:29:22 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 10:26:08 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBOs2-0002V7-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:26:06 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBOry-0004zL-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:26:02 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:21:53 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Beginner questions Resent-Message-ID: <"AsgTV.A.2eE.rATXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/462 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:26:02 -0700 X-UIDL: 24726dfe5adf982ee67d9bdaa81bfe95 Rob Martino asked: >Is it a situation where I would want certain effects (like reverb) >to be after the looping device, to prevent the overdubs from sounding to >muddy? There are two good reasons to place the reverb after the loop: 1. You want the reverb in stereo and you probably do not want to spend a second looping device just for this (Echoplex can be stereo synced) 2. While building the loop you maybe do not know what clima will come up, so it is very interesting to be able to change the character of the ambience, say the reverb time, while the loop is running. >Next question: will the Echoplex let you create polyrythmic loops, so >that you could do one loop in 4/4, and another in 3/4 on top of it so that >you'd have a scontinual shifting sort of effect going on? So far just with two synced Echopleci Matthias From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 10:29:24 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 10:27:01 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBOst-0002YY-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:26:59 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBOsq-00052C-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:26:56 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:21:58 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: hum cancelling Resent-Message-ID: <"ne0RX.A.YiE.MBTXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/463 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:26:56 -0700 X-UIDL: 99f32fc78b47a2bd4e58be81f60f05f9 >Theres a little $50 box by ebtech which claims to eliminate >all hum. It is stereo too. I think i saw it in either the >Musicians Friend or AMS catalog. Jump off a bridge and you do not feel your teeth hurt any more You do not need a "drug" to paint over your hum... From ???@??? Thu Oct 10 10:29:29 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 10:29:19 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBOv8-0002g6-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:29:18 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBOv6-00057v-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:29:16 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:22:03 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other points Resent-Message-ID: <"GKgq9C.A.dsE.5GTXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/468 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:29:16 -0700 X-UIDL: 3fe73b976b240d089fc6a12f2db4bdac >We had a huge vortex thread a while back that I guess you guys missed. I'm >in the process of putting old list postings up in an archive section of the >website, so you can see it all soon. > >kim I compiled 6 subjects, but not the one about Vortex, because I do not own one yet. I hope one of the Vortex users can offer the 20 minutes to do it and then maybe send soon to Joe Cavaleri and Ted Killian even before website. They will invite you for a beer. I used the following form: The stars help in that you can search for them if you want to run through the file quickly. Date and sender. The subject I left out because its usually one for the whole file. I only left the new and afirmative text and erased, citations, errors, off topics and jokes (I love them when they are fresh, only). Questions I left in only if they were necessary to understand the answers. Sometimes it is necessary to cite a sentence to give the sense to the text following, especially if the origin is not immediately above in the file. In other situations I just changed the text and replaced the "it" or "this" by the expression it was refering to. I hope this turns into something compact, readable and easy to search. Any suggestions to do it better? ...to do it? Thanks Matthias PS have an example: ***** Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:00:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner Actually, I'm a professional programmer, and I have a pretty good grasp of numeric analysis programming and how audio works. My usual environment is Unix, but I'm sure I could pick up Mac/Windows programming easily enough if I tried. Yeah, I'm seriously considering buying a new Power Mac just to work on this idea. What do y'all think? Would you be willing to use a personal computer for a looping device? Do you HAVE a computer capable of this sort of thing? All the necessary hardware is built into Power Macs and most modern PCs. The whole thing could be sold as software, or even given away. Let's think about this. What sort of features would we like to see? What about the user interface? ***** Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:37:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Ray Peck >A protools plug in and a standalone would be my choice. Way too expensive. I've been thinking more along the lines of Deck or Logic Audio. The machines are getting fast enough that one doesn't necessarily need to drop $10k on ProTools hardware. If people balk at $900 for an Echoplex, do you think they're gonna drop $15k for a machine and ProTools?!? --- It should be able to work with the upcoming Korg audio card, 'cause the Mac audio inputs are only around 70 db s/n. --- I'd also like to write a virtual analogue synth (patchable) that would work with it. --- I wonder if cmusic could be bent to the task. My understanding is that you can now do realtime stuff with cmusic on the Mac. Since it's all algorithmic, and the sources are available, this could be a very good foundation. ***** Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:56:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Ray Peck --- Mac. Screen. Panel of momentary and on/off footswitches and pedals (preferably with giant backlight LCD displays on each one that the software could program to say something meaningful). --- The system would show you the waveform of what you've played, like Deck or any other digital audio recording SW does, so you could see what you were doing. From ???@??? Fri Oct 11 02:08:14 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 11:29:41 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBPrY-0005jR-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:29:40 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBPrX-00063X-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:29:39 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 13:26:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner X-Sender: dstagner@icarus.icarus.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: TC Sustain and noise in general In-Reply-To: <961010133124_123458371@emout05.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"7bl8ND.A.6oF.AAUXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/476 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:29:39 -0700 X-UIDL: c71277598a434199bbc591e20748a11e On Thu, 10 Oct 1996 KRosser414@aol.com wrote: > Along these lines, anyone know where I can get ahold of a TC Electronics > Sustain/Para Eq pedal? I don't think they make 'em any more, and they're hard to find. You might get lucky, though. I got mine a few years ago for $30, from a local shop that handles lots of vintage and used stuff (really good guy, incidentally. "Somewhere in Iowa Guitars" at 319-362-2526. Do give him a call if you're seeking or selling vintage stuff. He's a very honest and knowledgable dealer). He couldn't unload the thing because no one knew what it was. Considering that hissy, noisy, pumping old MXR and Boss compressors next to it were commanding vintage prices... If you need a guitar compressor and find one, snatch it up immediately! Clean, smooth compression, parametric eq, noise suppression and silent electronic footswitching in a bulletproof box. I believe David Torn uses one as well, for the celebrity angle. To make this relevant (it ties to the hum problem as well), ANY noise in a looping system is a problem! Besides hum, there are lots of useful devices that tend to generate or amplify noise. Compressors and distortion devices are especially guilty of this. And looping noise is irritating and distracting. Devices like the T.C. Sustainer are invaluable in our quest for clean, quiet effects chains. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. -Charles Fort dstagner@icarus.net From ???@??? Fri Oct 11 02:08:29 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 14:34:10 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBSk5-0006ed-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 14:34:09 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBSk3-0000Er-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 14:34:07 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 14:32:54 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: delay tricks & Indian classical music Resent-Message-ID: <"pp2WOD.A.6L.PtWXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/479 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 14:34:07 -0700 X-UIDL: efacc6d1ac4d105f97c4443f67216aa3 >Not to me, I thought it was really interesting. I like your approach of >representing a musical idea as a particular symbolic/algorithmic approach, >extending the algorithm in obvious ways, and reapplying that to the musical >idea. Allows you to find new things that would have been missed in praxis. Well put! I never thought about it like that. It seems that the need to communicate can bring about this approach. >I've started doing similar things with polyrhythms lately. I think of a >particular beat division I want to work with (fives lately) and another >beat division to cross it with (five over two, say). I'm not good enough >rhythmically to play something like 5:2 right off the bat, so I carefully >figure out all the subdivisions and the locations of each strike. Then I >practice it slowly and build the tempo as I get the feel. Great way to pass >time in boring meetings and irritate co-workers! Here's a method I learned in tabla lessons, which helps me hear and "internalize" some of these polyrhythms: I'll use your example -- 5 : 2 -- 1. Use your hands to count the 5: Clap on the 1, then strike your fingers of one hand , (alternately), on the palm of your other hand to count the 2 through 5. ie. COUNT ACTION ----------- ------------ 1 clap 2 strike right pinky on left palm 3 strike right ring finger on left palm 4 strike right middle finger on left palm 5 strike right index finger on left palm repeat...etc. Do this slowly for a bit, at a steady pace, until you don't have to think about it. Now the other side of the polyrhythm will be done with your voice: Choose a repeating note/word sequence, with one sound per count (of the 5). For example, the traditional 5 count tabla note sequence goes: TA KAY TA KEE TA. So, start by speaking these notes at the same time as you count (with your fingers), ie. COUNT ACTION SPEAK ----------- ------------ ----------- 1 clap TA 2 strike right pinky on left palm KAY 3 strike right ring finger on left palm TA 4 strike right middle finger on left palm KEE 5 strike right index finger on left palm TA repeat....etc. Do this for a while until the finger actions and speaking seem fairly easy. Now, here's the trick: Just double the speed of your speaking, while keeping your fingers at a steady pace. So, now you have: COUNT ACTION SPEAK ----------- ------------ ----------- 1 clap TA * 1.5 KAY 2 strike right pinky on left palm TA 2.5 KEE 3 strike right ring finger on left palm TA 3.5 TA * 4 strike right middle finger on left palm KAY 4.5 TA 5 strike right index finger on left palm KEE 5.5 TA repeat...etc. Now, once you are comfortable with this, emphaisize, the first TA of each 5-note sequence (denoted with a *, in the above example). Emphasize it to the point where those are the only notes spoken aloud, ie. you are practically whispering the other notes. When you are comfortable with this, then slowly increase your speed -- as fast as you can go so that you "maintain control". And Voila! The relationship between your fingers and your spoken word is 5 : 2. Try doubling your spoken words again, to get the 5 : 4 relationship. Obviously, you have to start slow with these, but it really does help internalize them. For some reason it is easier for (my) brain to speak and beat one finger independently, than it is to beat two fingers independently. of course, another great way to get the feel for these, is to program them on a sequencer (or use the loopers!!!) and listen to them for extended periods (even in the background). >I think I might try combining this with your ideas to make some more >complex polyrhythmic loops! With the echoplex its pretty easy to get a >couple of them synced together in cross rhythms, using midi clock and >different 8ths/beat settings. there are also ways to do it with >BrotherSync. I assume you've tried this sort of thing? Yes, I've done this, but not by using different 8th/beat settings (I hadn't thought of that..). I have been tapping a "unit beat" length loop in one 'plex, then using the MULTIPLY function on additional 'plexis to make loops with various length relationships. Of course, with this method I have to perform it. Using your method, I could come up with polyrhythms that are too difficult to perform. - chris p.s. I will finally be re-integrating my 'plexis into my setup, after having them sit in Oberheim's customer service dept. for 3 months! --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Fri Oct 11 02:08:05 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 11:15:57 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBPeH-0004zq-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:15:57 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBPeG-0005go-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:15:56 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:33:30 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: hyperprism Resent-Message-ID: <"CV1KEB.A.FRF.dxTXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/471 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:15:56 -0700 X-UIDL: c1b394578ffc27139c1bce5ea4d035fe >Thanks for all that expanation and corection. It will not run on my 840AV >then (grrr). I am using DECK, too. Are you on that list? Wana sell >Audiomedia2? > Nope, but if you look around, they're going for pretty cheap these days. I've heard of prices in the $550 range at various mail order. >but, back to the essence: Can you TAP delay time on Hyperprism ?? > Not the PPC version, AFAIK. Possibly by writing a MAX controller for the 68k version though. I see Hyperprism as more a post looping processing tool than a real time looper. For example, you can do effects that loop over several iterations of an audio loop. PS: Matthias, thanks for the thread about computer looping, I'll read it when I get time. I'm in the middle of repainting my studio AND shipping a CD-ROM by monday. From ???@??? Fri Oct 11 02:08:04 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 11:15:51 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBPeA-0004zb-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:15:50 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBPeA-0005gf-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:15:50 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:33:37 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: roots (and dj's) Resent-Message-ID: <"-10zE.A.eRF.ixTXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/472 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 11:15:50 -0700 X-UIDL: abcc1bb69a6486c14a0eedee6069eb85 >Aha! This is a lead. Any Musique Concrete experts hanging about? I thought >there may have been people who experimented with records as a musical tool >before tape loops, but wasn't sure. Does anybody know more details about >that? I'd love to know who these people were and who inspired them. > Well, I'm no expert, but look into Pierre Henry and Pierre Schaefer as a start. Henry was doing some amazing things with tape in the 60's, and I believe some of Schaefer's early work was with wire recorders, imagine splicing that! >This brings up another branch in the looping family tree that hasn't been >touched on at all yet: dj's. Over the past twenty years or so the craft of >spinning records has been elevated into a musical art of its own. I've >heard some really stunning and creative music coming from guys with a >couple of turntables and a box of records. For the longest time I was just >completely baffled as to how they did this. I finally had the opportunity >to watch up close, and I was even more impressed, if still baffled. I >definitely did not come away thinking "Gee, I could do that." > I saw DJ Spooky, out of NYC, perform her in Oregon last weekend, a totally amazing show, honestly on the level of seeing Hendrix or Sun Ra. An absolutly virtuosic performance of real-time music-concrete. His slogan is "Gimme twoe records and I'll build you a universe", and he's not bragging. >Anyway, the dj-musician is really employing loops, using a different >technical approach than those of us using delays, real-time loopers, >samplers, and our computers. I'm sure some dj's employ these tools as well, >I don't know. I know Roland and Akai both make looping products aimed at >dj's, generally called phrase samplers. As you might guess, I'm fascinated >by this topic. I'd really like to know how dj's approach their music and do >their thing. And what the history is and where the influences came from. I >think some really interesting cross-pollination could happen as well. > Spooky seemed to be using some kinds of delay processors, and maybe a phrase sampler built into his dj coffin, along with 2 turntables and a CD player. As far as influences, the liner notes to his excellent "Songs of a Dead Dreamer" CD mention Mcluhan, Deleuze and Guatari, and Foucault. Not exactly you're usual suspects... Actually, after the DJ Spooky performance, I'm looking for dj's to collaborate with. Anybody know anyone in the NW? From ???@??? Fri Oct 11 02:07:58 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 10:48:40 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBPDq-0003fI-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:48:38 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBPDp-0005Qw-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:48:37 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:42:36 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Echoplex heating up? Resent-Message-ID: <"f8nm.A.CDF.1XTXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/470 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:48:37 -0700 X-UIDL: 47dc17eda018621948df4803783dae87 >I noticed on Harmony Central effects reviews that a user had a thermal >problem with the Echoplex containing a full 16MB of memory, so that >some of the controls would not respond. Has anyone had this problem, >and also heard of possible solutions? > >Rob That was a problem on older units due to a minor circuit design error. (sorry!) Its real easy to fix. You basically just have to cut a pin on an IC and the echoplex works fine at much higher temperatures. Newer units should have the mod done already, although ya never know. If anyone wants to know which IC/pin to make the mod, let me know. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Fri Oct 11 02:08:27 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 14:29:33 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBSfb-0006Oq-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 14:29:32 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBSfZ-00008f-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 14:29:29 -0700 Date: 10 Oct 96 17:22:39 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other Message-ID: <961010212238_100041.247_JHB191-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"MPl9FC.A.KD.hoWXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/478 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 14:29:29 -0700 X-UIDL: 25a9b8e7ac10377c157293ee3e1f6810 > I compiled 6 subjects, but not the one about Vortex, because I do not > own one yet. Too bad. Just got mine today and am suddenly very interested in this thread . > I hope one of the Vortex users can offer the 20 minutes to do it I'd do it but I've already deleted all the old messages. Hmpf! -M From ???@??? Fri Oct 11 02:08:32 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 15:45:11 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBTqn-0003TE-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:45:09 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBTqo-0000t9-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:45:10 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 18:41:49 -0400 From: KRosser414@aol.com Message-ID: <961010184147_330768952@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: TC Sustain and noise in general Resent-Message-ID: <"EMJyVD.A.8y.xvXXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/480 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:45:10 -0700 X-UIDL: cebdfaa64f0cce35b478284f2181d1c6 In a message dated 96-10-10 15:14:42 EDT, you write: >> Along these lines, anyone know where I can get ahold of a TC Electronics >> Sustain/Para Eq pedal? > >I don't think they make 'em any more, and they're hard to find. You >might get lucky, though. I got mine a few years ago for $30, from a >local shop that handles lots of vintage and used stuff (really good >guy, incidentally. "Somewhere in Iowa Guitars" at 319-362-2526. Thanks for the tip - I called him and I'm on his "want" list. Any other tips? If anyone else out there sees a deal like this, let me know! I saw one at the Guitar Center in Hollywood recently for $100. I went back two days later to get it and it was gone - I still have bruises from kicking myself. It's true, they don't make these anymore. To what extent might it be possible to use this newsgroup as sort of a nationwide (or worldwide?) resource for finding some of those hard-to-find pieces of gear that are helpful to us? I go to used stores quite a bit, as I'm sure a lot of us do. Maybe if there was a short list of things to keep an eye out for, we could inform the group? Also, along the TC lines, has anyone had any experience with their Noise Supressor/Line Driver/Distortion pedal, also no longer made? Is it up to the same TC standards? >If you need a guitar compressor and find one, snatch it up >immediately! Clean, smooth compression, parametric eq, noise >suppression and silent electronic footswitching in a bulletproof box. >I believe David Torn uses one as well, for the celebrity angle. As does Bill Frisell. Ken R From ???@??? Fri Oct 11 02:08:34 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 16:03:47 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBU8m-0004Ul-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 16:03:44 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBU8i-0001mV-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 16:03:40 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 17:58:21 CST From: "Todd Madson" Message-Id: <9609108449.AA844995743@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ToddM@lasermaster.com Subject: Re[2]: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other Resent-Message-ID: <"1nCMBC.A.ZXB.3-XXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/481 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 16:03:40 -0700 X-UIDL: 34c695bec77bc21dfeed05c3601973d3 You can see the looping sampler instructions for Vortex on my web page: http://www.waste.org/~crash/index.html Click on "[LOOP]" and you'll go right there. Todd Madson. _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Re: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com at Internet Date: 10/10/96 4:34 PM >Message was resent -- Original recipients were: To: ------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------- > I compiled 6 subjects, but not the one about Vortex, because I do not > own one yet. Too bad. Just got mine today and am suddenly very interested in this thread . > I hope one of the Vortex users can offer the 20 minutes to do it I'd do it but I've already deleted all the old messages. Hmpf! -M Received: from spica.LaserMaster.Com by ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com (SMTPLINK V2.10.08) ; Thu, 10 Oct 96 16:34:11 CST Return-Path: Received: from mouse.slip.net (mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102]) by spica.LaserMaster.Com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA02569 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 16:33:27 -0500 (CDT) Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBSeo-00007Z-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 14:28:42 -0700 Date: 10 Oct 96 17:22:39 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other Message-ID: <961010212238_100041.247_JHB191-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"MPl9FC.A.KD.hoWXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/478 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: ToddM@lasermaster.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 14:28:42 -0700 From ???@??? Fri Oct 11 02:08:37 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 16:26:11 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBUUU-0005il-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 16:26:10 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBUUQ-0003Ge-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 16:26:06 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 96 18:18:25 CST From: "Todd Madson" Message-Id: <9609108449.AA844996943@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ToddM@lasermaster.com Subject: Re[2]: TC Sustain and noise in general Resent-Message-ID: <"1Qi8k.A.MoC.cRYXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/482 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 16:26:06 -0700 X-UIDL: 35a0c395e920c6d53fc6e56300088537 I've got a TC Electronics BLD (Booster Line Driver) pedal that I've had for several years. I guess I'd say that the pedal doesn't have what I'd term a raging distortion sound but more of a lighter type of disto tone. Not my favorite tone, but... The pedal also has a "boost mode" where I've used it as a boost pedal since it's got a fairly decent eq and a really nice noise gate built into it. The threshold for the gate is adjustable by a small rotating pot on the surface of the pedal. There's also level / bass / treble / and distortion controls. It's also got an XLR out connector which is the only pedal I've ever seen that in before. It also has a neat feature where when you first step on the footswitch the LED is at full brightness and it then gradually dims to nothingness - to conserve batteries! I don't use it all that much since my Mesa Boogie Studio Preamp is a bit better at handling input signals. Another sick pedal I have is an early issue MXR Blue Box - if you compress it just right with the right EQ it sounds like an extremely lardaceous and corpulent mini moog! By itself it's really obnoxious. I also have a Boss Octave divider, as well as a DD-3 delay. Oh! Can't forget the borrowed Ibanez SF-3 Swell Flanger - if you find one, get one - it's a sick and amazing pedal! Todd Madson. http://www.waste.org/~crash/index.html Received: from spica.LaserMaster.Com by ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com (SMTPLINK V2.10.08) ; Thu, 10 Oct 96 17:49:54 CST Return-Path: Received: from mouse.slip.net (mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102]) by spica.LaserMaster.Com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA02916 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 17:49:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBTq1-0000sZ-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:44:21 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 18:41:49 -0400 From: KRosser414@aol.com Message-ID: <961010184147_330768952@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: TC Sustain and noise in general Resent-Message-ID: <"EMJyVD.A.8y.xvXXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/480 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: ToddM@lasermaster.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:44:21 -0700 From ???@??? Fri Oct 11 02:08:42 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 18:23:24 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBWJv-0003Dm-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 18:23:23 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBWJv-0001M9-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 18:23:23 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 17:42:12 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: a good book Resent-Message-ID: <"pwjVRD.A.KGB.hDaXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/483 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 18:23:23 -0700 X-UIDL: adeec290ad838550ff78027545c83180 >Jon Morris writes: >>another interesting book dealing heavily with improvisation: > >Another is the new Eddie (Edwin) Prevost book (he's the percussion guy >in the seminal non-idiomatic improv group AMM). I haven't started in >yet, but I've heard it's great. Wow, mention of Bailey, Braxton and Prevost, on a list about looping! This really great, a place where it's cool to talk about esthetics and gear, something very rare on the net. Anyway, Prevost's book (No Sound is Innocent) is a must-read for any improvisor. It's a series of short essays that I go back to and ponder often. Deep stuff. Another great text is "Stockhausen on Music", which is a collection of essays and interviews. Very inspirational -dt From ???@??? Fri Oct 11 02:09:00 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 10 22:09:07 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBZqM-0003iP-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 22:09:06 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBZqI-0000iH-00; Thu, 10 Oct 1996 22:09:02 -0700 Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 01:05:15 -0400 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961011010514_124019256@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Compression Devices Resent-Message-ID: <"GTHD4C.A.Jo.gXdXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/484 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 22:09:02 -0700 X-UIDL: eee841997a9c4d21e7fcb1139f8cb20f For those of you interested in compressing a guitar signal in a way that works reasonably well, try putting the compressor as close to the source as possible. I found out the benefits of this arrangement back in 1980 when I played one of those oddball Gibson RD model guitars. In addition to having active electronics on-board (ie a preamp w. active pickups) it had on-board compression and expansion too (circuit designed by Bob Moog). The sound of this setup so ammazed me I bought one (ugly as it was) and it has become my main axe for the past 16 years. The RD was unfortunately one of Gibson's "Edsels" (a product too advanced and/or too wierd for its time (or any other). It didn't take too long for it to slip into oblivion. However the electronics did live on for a few more years in other models of Gibsons (LPs, SGs, and others) that had this as an option. One might try vintage guitar magazine for locating something like this. For those who do not want to buy a new guitar but might want the same effect (pun intended), you might try pestering the folks at my place of employment (Seymour Duncan). Last year they "beta tested" some on-board guitar electronics packages that included a compressor circuit (and some other interesting things too). They never made it to market because, in the end, they didn't think enough people would buy them (even though they worked rrrrreally well). As a matter of fact I snapped up one of them myself and replaced the innards of my trusty old RD. If enough folks called, maybe they would reconsider the decision not to market the thing, and/or just perhaps they might still have a few of those beta units left around. It never hurts to ask...(just don't tell 'em I said so okay?). Ted Killian killinfo@aol.com From ???@??? Fri Oct 11 02:09:01 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 11 00:46:10 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBcIK-0006gL-00; Fri, 11 Oct 1996 00:46:08 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBcIF-0002OS-00; Fri, 11 Oct 1996 00:46:03 -0700 Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 09:22:26 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: The hidden parts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"_N37_.A.kNC.vrfXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/485 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 00:46:03 -0700 X-UIDL: 8ed9e4d9d250c72acf06d20b9c924b8a As a matter of fact, this seems an interesting off topic thing. I found myself experiment a little on melody and "non-said". I've tried on written melody of myself, or other well known, to find ways of simplify (Oh, does it exist, simplify???) the melody by deleting notes, of course trying to delete notes that would not affect the harmonic/melodic/emotion content. In fact it is this thing Salieri said about Mozart music that gave me the idea "too many notes". Seldomly, it works. Most of the time, not on other's melody, a little on mine. But that would mean as well that i'm writting to heavy melodies, and not that i'm sliding into the implicit part of music (ie, the darkside of the force?) Olivier From ???@??? Fri Oct 11 02:09:03 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 11 00:47:34 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBcJg-0006lY-00; Fri, 11 Oct 1996 00:47:33 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBcJf-0002RD-00; Fri, 11 Oct 1996 00:47:31 -0700 Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 09:45:46 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Odd pedals... In-Reply-To: <961011010514_124019256@emout17.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Uk9cCB.A.uPC.5sfXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/486 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 00:47:31 -0700 X-UIDL: 07a1ed3c303fac38d8d9590e1c08e330 In the "it's-for-nothing-i-got-this-obnoxious-toy" department, I found an old OD-9 Ibanez overdrive last week for the equivament of 10 US $. Like it's name implies it -NOT- it is a fuzz and not an overdrive, but it has a rich Fripp like sound that i was not expecting from this little piece of junk. Combined with a slight touch of distortion (tube in my case) afterward, it gives spectacular corpulent sound... Olivier "OH No, the Gear Acquisition Syndrome is hitting me again" From ???@??? Fri Oct 11 10:56:52 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 11 05:45:57 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBgyT-0005wV-00; Fri, 11 Oct 1996 05:45:57 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBgyS-0002jq-00; Fri, 11 Oct 1996 05:45:56 -0700 From: Jon Morris Message-Id: <199610111244.HAA18582@beacon.moontower.com> Subject: Re: a good book To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 07:44:05 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "Dave Trenkel" at Oct 10, 96 05:42:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"ls4GPC.A.1iC.dEkXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/487 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 05:45:56 -0700 X-UIDL: fec3420bd254d24838412cd09f860864 > Another great text is "Stockhausen on Music", which is a > collection of essays and interviews. Very inspirational > > -dt > For a nice short & sweet intro to Stockhausen essays and interviews, there's a small collection called "Towards a Cosmic Music" which talks equally about musical technique and "spiritual" matters such as the design of the cosmos (a phrase Stockhausen uses often) and other more general topics that may not be directly relevent to most discussions on music, but are very amusing at the least. I'll have to get a copy of the Prevost book- I had the good fortune to see AMM play live here in Austin, Texas (I have no idea what forces got them here, but I won't complain). Those who may be interested in group improv or free music in general should investigate their work. The guitarist, Keith Rowe, does many amazing things to/with his instrument. Seeing as most of us listmembers are playing fretted string instruments, perhaps a discussion of prepared guitar techniques would be relevant? I couldn't see so well from my seat at the AMM show, but he had his guitar on a table, and played it with various obejects: springs, nails, metal ruler, bits of junk, and he also had some kind of pick up at the nut. The kinds of sounds that came forth from his instrument were other-worldly to say the least. I bought a CD at the show, their label is: Matchless Recordings and Publishing 2 Shetlock's Cottages, Matching Tye, near Harlow, Essex CM17 0QR, UK Tel: 0279 731 517 I don't know how easy it is to find their recordings in the US, there's a specialty record shop here in Austin that carries a lot of experimental/improv music and they've probably got some AMM CDs which I could pick up for any interested folks. Also, there are a few used gear shops here. Austin's slogan is "live music capital of the world", it's actually amateur music capital - and most of the live music in town is guitar-based. Since many of the guitarists (who are a dime a dozen) are tube-heads, vintage used gear abounds. I'll keep my eyes open for TC sustainers and cool gadgets that seem to come up on the list. (although I'm keeping the first TC compressor- I'm using a Morley compressor pedal that's pretty noisy) loopy, -Jon From ???@??? Sat Oct 12 01:41:59 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 11 19:50:19 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBu9Z-0006UT-00; Fri, 11 Oct 1996 19:50:17 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBu9Z-00017H-00; Fri, 11 Oct 1996 19:50:17 -0700 Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 09:21:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner X-Sender: dstagner@icarus.icarus.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: The hidden parts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"MDOgyC.A.cAB.WcwXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/495 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 19:50:17 -0700 X-UIDL: 8513e4463fc83ffc3ac02ed44a26df89 Speaking of hidden parts, here's a cute trick I picked up from Roger Miller's "Maximum Electric Piano" work. In one piece, he builds up an ever-denser wall of noise, until it's just washes of sound. Then he "cut out" a piece of the noise, an empty gap a couple of seconds long. This makes the noise sort of rhythmic. Then he starts playing a very pretty piano part over it (not really in time to the loop), with this wash of noise passing by in the background. Very clever, very effective. Fripp did something similar on one of the pieces on "Let the Power Fall", but because of the consistency of Fripp's tone source, it works differently. The Roger Miller "Maximum Electric Piano" work is terrific stuff for fans of looping, btw. He used a Yamaha electric baby grand (the dinky one with strings for on-stage use) with Cage-style preparations (slide piano!). This went into a volume pedal, a couple of fuzz boxes, an analog delay, and an old Electro-Harmonix 16 Second Delay for looping. With the prepared piano and fuzz, he could get lots of effective percussion and sustaining tones as well as standard piano, and he's a creative and radical musician. It's probably really hard to find now. I saw Roger Miller in concert then... maybe 20 people showed up. He made $100 and the bar lost money. We were sitting in a semicircle around the stage, gaping open-mouthed at this phenomenal wall of sound pouring out. I think it's the best one-man show I've ever seen. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. -Charles Fort dstagner@icarus.net From ???@??? Sat Oct 12 01:41:54 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 11 19:32:57 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBtsm-0005Bp-00; Fri, 11 Oct 1996 19:32:56 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBtsl-0000rZ-00; Fri, 11 Oct 1996 19:32:55 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9610111055.ZM20318@sparc.arts.rpi.edu> Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 10:55:52 -0400 In-Reply-To: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) "Re: hyperprism" (Oct 4, 9:45am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 06sep94) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: hyperprism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"EEpatB.A.Nv.tKwXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/494 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 19:32:55 -0700 X-UIDL: 818d5789033a668faf5b3b6d3e25cc29 On Oct 4, 9:45am, Matthias wrote: matthias, jah, wie gehts? I know titos... (Georges Jaroslaw) for about a year and a half. also he is old friend with one of my professors. call him or email him for your suggestions. the echotranz runs on ppc(looper), but hyperprism also runs 68k and tdm. georges lives in san fran with his company, arboretum. look up www.arboretum.com how are you? good? collier > I just know that Hyperprism is a french (?) soft package that runs on PPCs > and contains all kinds of effects. > Are they programmable in a suficiantly free way, so we can use it as a > looper, the way we like it? > Would it make sense to propose them a few modifications to improve this side? > > Matthias > > > >-- End of excerpt from Matthias From ???@??? Sat Oct 12 01:41:53 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 11 19:32:46 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBtsb-0005B3-00; Fri, 11 Oct 1996 19:32:45 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBtsa-0000rJ-00; Fri, 11 Oct 1996 19:32:44 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9610111415.ZM296@wolf2.vlsc.rpi.edu> Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 14:15:18 -0400 In-Reply-To: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) "Re: hyperprism" (Oct 5, 3:23am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: hyperprism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"AWt6y.A.6u.nKwXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/493 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 19:32:44 -0700 X-UIDL: e982ba01ce571fc3b4bf70e7d1c6e978 kim and all, i'm behind on my email, but this is concerning interest in looping gear and such. sampler: k2500 (kurzweil), the new EMU, good akai... etc. personally I've been using samplecells in the same machine as max,vision,protools,hyperprism,waves etc. some folk say that samplecell has died, but I have it and it works. software: tons of neat stuff. check "lickmachine", "BigEye" from STEIM, IRCAM's "Audiosculpt", shareware like soundhack and tons more. most of the good stuff is of course super speciality and you have to hunt it down(part of the fun) I'm burnt on the one finger midi wizard sound sampling cd's. ron mcleod(osc) does the "poke in the ear with a sharp stick" sound cd series. it's interesting. there is lots o' stuff out there. best thing to do is get alchemy and a portadat and make your own loops and samples... oh yeah, alchemy is very important, and also turbosynth. is that some info to start with? collier From ???@??? Sat Oct 12 01:41:52 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 11 19:13:44 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBta2-0003pA-00; Fri, 11 Oct 1996 19:13:34 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBta0-0000Ys-00; Fri, 11 Oct 1996 19:13:32 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9610111420.ZM308@wolf2.vlsc.rpi.edu> Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 14:20:58 -0400 In-Reply-To: Jon Morris "Re: Latin, and roots" (Oct 5, 8:17am) References: <199610051515.KAA16639@beacon.moontower.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: musique' concrete Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"mOpxL.A.oc.k4vXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/492 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 19:13:32 -0700 X-UIDL: 027929825cd7bcac3d2f22baecd9d52a jon and all, one of my prof's, xavier chabot of IRCAM, is an experiment on such things. varese, stockhausen, austin you name it. as a matter of fact, we're doing research on such things at the momment. he performs with flute, mac, max, lexicon gear. also, silicon graphics(sgi), nextstations, max and other IRCAM designed sound software. Ircam has been a major player in such areas. one of the pieces he did included using several old revox tape machines with trigger pedals and other external triggers. trippy... collier From ???@??? Sat Oct 12 01:41:50 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 11 19:13:32 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBtZr-0003ng-00; Fri, 11 Oct 1996 19:13:23 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBtZo-0000Yb-00; Fri, 11 Oct 1996 19:13:20 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9610111445.ZM336@wolf2.vlsc.rpi.edu> Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 14:45:14 -0400 In-Reply-To: The Man Himself "You asked for it..." (Oct 5, 2:27pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: You asked for it... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"Y5FgSC.A.Sc.c4vXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/491 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 19:13:20 -0700 X-UIDL: 041b5c8844a4aa71eb1545d85568f08d a quicky here... Drill Recordings/Bzar Records just released "Band Crazy", a benefit for Multiple Sclerosis. It is available at most all record store chains and is in the books ... tower, barnes & noble, etc. Point is, they just sent me five copies - with the inclusion of track 11 collier hyams "scream" it's currently going for adds in college radio... cool huh? point is, if you wanted you could add it to the megalist for available recordings. collier (yes, I'm still behind on email) From ???@??? Sat Oct 12 01:41:47 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 11 18:53:31 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBtGN-0001we-00; Fri, 11 Oct 1996 18:53:16 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBtGG-0000Ao-00; Fri, 11 Oct 1996 18:53:08 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9610111503.ZM361@wolf2.vlsc.rpi.edu> Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 15:03:00 -0400 In-Reply-To: Olivier Malhomme "The beginning.." (Oct 7, 1:13am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: The beginning.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"ADCq2C.A.lG.slvXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/490 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 18:53:08 -0700 X-UIDL: 883fc8b317595416b9ce83b0e9518177 On Oct 7, 1:13am, Olivier Malhomme wrote: > think, and they did loops with.... Vinyls! They had old black records with > many looped on it. The record did not play from beginning to end but had > each track(drill?) with a loop. Long ones on the beginning of the record, > little ones in the end. They stacked up to 8 phono at a time... > Hell I don't remember the name of this thinb Boulez set in motion it was > like Centre d'etude et de recherche musicale or something... > > Olivier Olivier, Piere Boulez is daddy of IRCAM of France. my prof Xavier was director for 5-6 years. I'll get his background on this and post it too the loopgarougroup collier From ???@??? Sat Oct 12 01:41:45 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 11 18:15:23 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBsfS-0005rN-00; Fri, 11 Oct 1996 18:15:06 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBs4F-0005Uf-00; Fri, 11 Oct 1996 17:36:39 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9610111645.ZM485@wolf2.vlsc.rpi.edu> Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 16:45:44 -0400 In-Reply-To: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> "Boomerang" (Oct 10, 11:28am) References: <961010181508_100041.247_JHB91-2@CompuServe.COM> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Boomerang Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"R-zrrB.A.evE.fduXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/488 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 17:36:39 -0700 X-UIDL: c0996837fd13ea6ca688081fe959be7b michael, wie gehts... I tried the boomerang in dallas and enjoyed it. I've talked to the makers also. they live in and around dallas - I'll try to find my notes. the boomerang does some interesting halftime things and reversals all in a single floor box. seems like I coulda gotten a full blown for less than $500us collier From ???@??? Sat Oct 12 01:41:46 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 11 18:15:15 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vBsfM-0005rN-00; Fri, 11 Oct 1996 18:15:00 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vBsfH-000751-00; Fri, 11 Oct 1996 18:14:55 -0700 Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 15:04:03 -0700 (PDT) From: rpeck@PureAtria.COM (Ray Peck) Message-Id: <199610112204.PAA05728@pure.PureAtria.COM> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <199610111244.HAA18582@beacon.moontower.com> Subject: Re: a good book Resent-Message-ID: <"jGVolB.A.CiG.BCvXy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/489 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 18:14:55 -0700 X-UIDL: b22238e43884e12562fd1540b0b565aa >I don't know how easy it is to find their recordings in the US, there's a >specialty record shop here in Austin that carries a lot of >experimental/improv music and they've probably got some AMM CDs which I >could pick up for any interested folks. Gino Robair / Rastascan sells them mail order. Contact GinoRobair@aol.com and tell him I sent you. From ???@??? Sat Oct 12 17:15:25 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 12 02:56:34 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vC0o6-0004aB-00; Sat, 12 Oct 1996 02:56:34 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vC0o6-0005jM-00; Sat, 12 Oct 1996 02:56:34 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 02:51:48 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Boomerang Resent-Message-ID: <"uvyueD.A.EVF.gq2Xy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/496 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 02:56:34 -0700 X-UIDL: 3451a988e7302231400c5130cf0ade62 >michael, wie gehts... > >I tried the boomerang in dallas and enjoyed it. I've talked to the makers >also. they live in and around dallas - I'll try to find my notes. >the boomerang does some interesting halftime things and reversals all in a >single floor box. >seems like I coulda gotten a full blown for less than $500us > >collier Thing that bugs me about the boomerang is the low sample rate. Only 16khz! That means an audio bandwidth of about 6-7khz, probably. Might be ok for an electric guitar with humbuckers, if you're not very picky. For the half speed mode it cuts the sample rate in half, meaning about a 3khz bandwidth. You'd probably notice the poor sound quality if you recorded in that mode, unless your instrument of choice was a sine wave. For $500 I'd want better audio quality. These days, the cheapo multimedia audio codecs sound reasonably good and only cost a manufacturer about $4. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Oct 12 17:15:32 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 12 15:15:45 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCCLQ-0005wB-00; Sat, 12 Oct 1996 15:15:44 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCCLP-0002i4-00; Sat, 12 Oct 1996 15:15:43 -0700 Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 15:10:55 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com cc: pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu, sanderso@cyberg8t.com Subject: PERFORMANCE ANNOUNCEMENT: Andre LaFosse BFA recital Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"IZCI5.A.BgC.KgBYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/497 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 15:15:43 -0700 X-UIDL: 95c7b3f87fd9c22eece6cb2df0f90726 Hello loopists, synthesists, and others; here's an upcoming gig which you may be interested in. I'll be staging a solo performance at the end of this month (Wednesday, October 30, to be exact) which some of you may be interested in. The show will be my mid-residence guitar recital at the California Institute of the Arts, located at the northern edge of the LA Sprawl in Valencia, California. I'd like to invite anyone in the Southern California area (or anyone else who's into a bit of travelling) to attend. The recital will be a completely solo endeavor, utilizing striaght unprocessed guitar, loops via an Oberheim Echoplex and Lexicon Vortex arrangement, and guitar synth work triggered via a combination of Roland GR-50 and Korg O3R/W sounds (nearly all of which are self-programmed or modified). The show will be staged in a five-way pentaphonic speaker system, with loops driving one stereo pair, synths driving a second stereo pair, and the unaffected guitar accounting for the fifth point in the sound field. The audience will be situated surrounding me in a semi-circular arrangement, with the speakers surrounding the audience and myself. The material will run the gamut from wholly improvised to wholly pre-composed and from placidly tonal to gratingly noisy, with most of the music falling somewhere in between those extremes. It'll be an opportunity for me to see how far I can take real-time processing of the guitar in a live performance setting, and also a fairly rare chance to experiment with a heavily-immersive sound environment for myself and the audience. If anyone is interested in attending, please contact me via E-mail so that I can provide more exact directions to the school and the performance hall. Also, since Cal Arts is a small school, security generally runs a manned post at the main gate during evening hours, so I may need to leave a list of visiting individuals with security to ensure that access can be granted. The recital, again, is at 8:00 PM on Wednesday, October 30. Anyone interested in checking out the show, or finding out more about the school, is more than welcome to attend. Many thanks, --Andre LaFosse From ???@??? Sat Oct 12 20:30:56 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 12 17:36:35 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCEXi-00020v-00; Sat, 12 Oct 1996 17:36:34 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCEXh-0004AV-00; Sat, 12 Oct 1996 17:36:33 -0700 Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 17:31:41 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com cc: kflint@annihilist.com Subject: MY ECHOPLEX IS BROKEN Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"9awhYB.A.g3D._jDYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/498 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 17:36:33 -0700 X-UIDL: 5d556a8b254caa39089428f3a742f518 That's right, the thing's on the fritz. When recording a loop, say, one note, the note will decay at a relatively normal rate, but then suddenly cut completely out after falling below a certain lvel. I've tried this in several different modes, with and without threshold, and nothing helps it. I'm also noticing quite a bit more digital noise on the looped sound during recording and playback than I previously have. I had previously been unable to tell the original signal from the loop, but there's now quite a bit of aliasing I can hear. Can Kim or anyone else *please* send me any information that can help. I am UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES prepared to send the unit to Oberheim, since it has been well-documented on this list that they have had very poor customer relations and have in some cases kept Echoplexes several months without communication. I'll take the unit directly to Kim for work if need be (and if possible), but as my previous post mentioned, I have a very impotant gig coming up, and if I cannot get the Oberheim repaired, than I'll be forced to cancel the performance. Unfortunately, I'll also be forced to seriously reconsider the long-term feasibility of trying to work with what increasingly appears to be a highly bug-ridden machine with no official support available to it. So again, if anyone can offer help, then please do. Otherwise, my days with the Echoplex may be seriously numbered... --Andre From ???@??? Sat Oct 12 20:30:55 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 12 17:33:59 1996 Received: from vax1.calarts.edu [156.3.140.66] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCEVC-0001wY-00; Sat, 12 Oct 1996 17:33:58 -0700 Received: from shoko.calarts.edu by vax1.calarts.edu with SMTP; Sat, 12 Oct 1996 17:34:28 -0700 Received: (from altruist@localhost) by shoko.calarts.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id RAA20425; Sat, 12 Oct 1996 17:31:41 -0700 Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 17:31:41 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com cc: kflint@annihilist.com Subject: MY ECHOPLEX IS BROKEN Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-UIDL: 73e2e6e795bf0fc18a9c65588fdb8430 That's right, the thing's on the fritz. When recording a loop, say, one note, the note will decay at a relatively normal rate, but then suddenly cut completely out after falling below a certain lvel. I've tried this in several different modes, with and without threshold, and nothing helps it. I'm also noticing quite a bit more digital noise on the looped sound during recording and playback than I previously have. I had previously been unable to tell the original signal from the loop, but there's now quite a bit of aliasing I can hear. Can Kim or anyone else *please* send me any information that can help. I am UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES prepared to send the unit to Oberheim, since it has been well-documented on this list that they have had very poor customer relations and have in some cases kept Echoplexes several months without communication. I'll take the unit directly to Kim for work if need be (and if possible), but as my previous post mentioned, I have a very impotant gig coming up, and if I cannot get the Oberheim repaired, than I'll be forced to cancel the performance. Unfortunately, I'll also be forced to seriously reconsider the long-term feasibility of trying to work with what increasingly appears to be a highly bug-ridden machine with no official support available to it. So again, if anyone can offer help, then please do. Otherwise, my days with the Echoplex may be seriously numbered... --Andre From ???@??? Sat Oct 12 20:30:58 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 12 19:28:39 1996 Received: from vax1.calarts.edu [156.3.140.66] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCGIA-0004op-00; Sat, 12 Oct 1996 19:28:38 -0700 Received: from shoko.calarts.edu by vax1.calarts.edu with SMTP; Sat, 12 Oct 1996 19:29:04 -0700 Received: (from altruist@localhost) by shoko.calarts.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id TAA20796; Sat, 12 Oct 1996 19:26:17 -0700 Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 19:26:17 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com cc: kflint@annihilist.com Subject: Update on Plex problems Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-UIDL: b5302f8d63c47bed5b522d308fca7e67 More on my malfunctioning Echoplex -- It has come to my attention that the rack containing the Echoplex had, previous to my latest ill-fated endeavor at running it, *fallen off of a chair*. To make matters worse, the face plate for the rack was apparently not affixed when this happened, so the rack modules landed knobs-first on the floor. I unscrewed the top of the Plex, and both the knobs and the circuit boards seemed intact and (visually) undamaged. My assumption is that the board affixed to the knobs would have suffered damage more readilly than any other part of the unit, but it appears undamaged. (Though the two left-hand pots do make a bit of a wierd mechanical noise when turned, there's no readilly audible affect in the actual sound signal). Nonetheless, the loops continue to suddenly cut off when the volume dips below a certain level. And perhaps it's my imagination, but it sure sounds like there's more aliasing on the loops than there used to be. At any rate, the situation remains rather critical for me. What I need to know is who I can take the unit to and expect to get the thing back repaired (or for that matter, to simply get the thing back). I'm prepared to hop in the car at a moment's notice and head up to the bay area for the necessary repair work, but I need to know *soon*. Again, thanks for any help, and for any speed with which it can be rendered, --Andre From ???@??? Sat Oct 12 20:30:59 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 12 19:31:06 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCGKX-0004sN-00; Sat, 12 Oct 1996 19:31:05 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCGKX-0005K2-00; Sat, 12 Oct 1996 19:31:05 -0700 Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 19:26:17 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com cc: kflint@annihilist.com Subject: Update on Plex problems Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"JCTKn.A.M8E.ePFYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/499 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 19:31:05 -0700 X-UIDL: 98e707aa34b91e7876e575bf76d5346e More on my malfunctioning Echoplex -- It has come to my attention that the rack containing the Echoplex had, previous to my latest ill-fated endeavor at running it, *fallen off of a chair*. To make matters worse, the face plate for the rack was apparently not affixed when this happened, so the rack modules landed knobs-first on the floor. I unscrewed the top of the Plex, and both the knobs and the circuit boards seemed intact and (visually) undamaged. My assumption is that the board affixed to the knobs would have suffered damage more readilly than any other part of the unit, but it appears undamaged. (Though the two left-hand pots do make a bit of a wierd mechanical noise when turned, there's no readilly audible affect in the actual sound signal). Nonetheless, the loops continue to suddenly cut off when the volume dips below a certain level. And perhaps it's my imagination, but it sure sounds like there's more aliasing on the loops than there used to be. At any rate, the situation remains rather critical for me. What I need to know is who I can take the unit to and expect to get the thing back repaired (or for that matter, to simply get the thing back). I'm prepared to hop in the car at a moment's notice and head up to the bay area for the necessary repair work, but I need to know *soon*. Again, thanks for any help, and for any speed with which it can be rendered, --Andre From ???@??? Sun Oct 13 02:50:26 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 13 01:20:03 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCLmE-0005MH-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 01:20:02 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCLmE-00015I-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 01:20:02 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 01:16:11 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Andre's Plex Problem -- Latest Chapter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"udBlOD.A.--.bXKYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/501 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 01:20:02 -0700 X-UIDL: 771de6612ab60b394745a102b145784b > Hi Andre- > > Having a good day, are we? HOOOO boy... :-/ > But really, the > difference would be quite subtle. If you are actually noticing audio > dropouts from the gate as much as you seem to be, I think we've got a case > of incorrect input/output gain settings. The dropouts are pretty un-subtle. One of the first things I did was to check the input level knob; even when it was brought up to the point where the initial note attack was producing mild digital clipping, I noticed this newfound anomaly, which again is a complete and very sudden dropout of the signal when it dips below a certain point. Your explanation makes a lot of sense; the reason I'm inclined to doubt that it's accurate in this case is twofold: 1) It's a very obvious, very noticable dropout, the likes of which I've never heard before, and 2) I've done quite a bit of very direct looping, with no compressor and no outbord processing, and have never noticed this before. I feel rather certain that if it were a simple case of having the input volume level set too low, I would have encountered this effect prior to now. > Give it a try, and let me know how its going. You've got my number, > obviously.....:-) I shall try it one more time for the sheer joy of it, but I think something got jarred during the short but potent plummet that the thing took. If you can refer me to anyone at Oberheim or elsewhere who I should send the thing to for repair, I'd be much appreciative. Right now it looks like I'll be rescheduling the recital, unless I can find a very fast remedy to the problem. Anyway, thanks very much for your help. Please assume that your diagnosis, though well-grounded, seems to be incorrct in this instance, and let me know how to proceed from here. Thanks again (and no more phone calls, I promise ;} ), --Andre From ???@??? Sun Oct 13 02:50:27 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 13 01:30:01 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCLvs-0005Ub-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 01:30:00 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCLvr-0001DQ-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 01:29:59 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 01:25:16 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Andre's Plex Problem -- Latest Chapter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"mIbVJD.A.UGB.-fKYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/502 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 01:29:59 -0700 X-UIDL: 36c092aab83af0bc853c1dbaf3b2a070 Addendum to the recommendation: Tried it yet again, with much input gain, and the problem remains. My fingers are crossed... --Andre From ???@??? Sun Oct 13 02:50:29 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 13 01:59:32 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCMOR-0005tk-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 01:59:31 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCMOQ-0001VR-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 01:59:30 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 01:55:23 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: PLEX OWNERS: I need your help... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"-07vPB.A.FYB.O8KYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/503 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 01:59:31 -0700 X-UIDL: dad0c55e4b08f9f44e79c278ee335fba All right, folks, I'd like to try an experiment, and I could use the help of every Echoplex user out there. For those of you fortunate enough to have evaded the last couple of posts from me, there seems to be a problem in my Plex with very soft signals being suddenly and rather blatantly cut off. Now, I've never noticed this anomaly before, but it *is* possible that it's been there all along and I've never noticed it before. So I'd like to ask any of those of you out there who are willing to do me a tremendous favor by trying the following experiment with your echoplex: 1) Plug a guitar directly into the Plex, then run the Plex directly into a monitor system/amp/mixer. Nothing else before or after in the signal chain. 2) Play one note, and let it decay for as long as possible. When you can't hear the note any longer, cloe the loop and begin the playback. 3) Listen very closely to the decay of the note. Does it sound just as it was originally played, or is there a sudden drastic cutoff in sound when the decay of the note reaches a cetain point? Responses will help me determine whether or not there is indeed a problem with my unit, or if in fact Mr. Flint is correct in his assessment that my unit is in fact unscathed. Any response to this query will be quite useful to me, so many thanks in advance. Sorry to keep clogging the bandwidth with my mid-residency crisis, --Andre From ???@??? Sun Oct 13 02:50:24 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 13 01:06:37 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCLZE-0005AI-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 01:06:36 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCLZE-0000vZ-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 01:06:36 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 01:00:49 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: MY ECHOPLEX IS BROKEN Cc: The Man Himself Resent-Message-ID: <"bc6dwD.A.O0.iIKYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/500 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 01:06:36 -0700 X-UIDL: 4e3e7aba3851013136bc2ed8ddfcffbc Hi Andre- Having a good day, are we? I don't think there is anything wrong with your unit. You see, the echoplex has a noisegate built into it, on the signal path to the loop. (not the direct path) This is actually a feature, and serves a very useful purpose in making Undo much more useable. The Undo function is actually quite a bit more complicated than it might appear. It has some intelligence built into it to prevent unnecessary memory consumption in the event that overdub is on but there is no actual audio input. (happens a lot more often than you might think!) So rather than writing a whole new section of memory with essentially the same thing that was in the last section, we detect this and jump back to the existing section. This also makes undo more musically useful, so that a press of undo will remove an actual overdub rather than a pass of inaudible noise. In order to differentiate between miscellaneous noise and actual intentional overdubs, we have a software based noisegate. The threshold for the gate is set quite low, since its only supposed to deal with noise. If your input and output gains are set right, you shouldn't be tripping the gate with intentional signals. So I think your problem is that you need more gain on your input signal. Perhaps when you dropped the poor echoplex on its face, the input volume position got changed a little? Try turning the input volume up a bit, and the output volume down a bit to even it out. That way, the quiet passages should have enough amplitude inside the echoplex to be above the threshold of the noisegate, and still sound quiet when played back. Improper gain settings might also explain the noise you are hearing. If you have somehow managed to set the input volume too low and the output too high to compensate, you have effectively reduced your signal to noise ratio. You will also hear more artifacts from the analog to digital conversion process, because the lower signal levels will be using fewer bits to represent them digitally. The result is a greater amount of what is called "quantization noise." One new feature that will appear in an upcoming upgrade is the ability to control the threshold of the noisegate, as well as a generally smarter gate. The current threshold setting is optimal for most cases, but there are times when a higher or lower threshold might be useful. For instance, very high gain guitar signals are likely to have a fairly large amount of noise and the optimal threshold setting for the gate would be higher. In your case the optimal setting might be a bit lower. But really, the difference would be quite subtle. If you are actually noticing audio dropouts from the gate as much as you seem to be, I think we've got a case of incorrect input/output gain settings. Give it a try, and let me know how its going. You've got my number, obviously.....:-) kim >That's right, the thing's on the fritz. > >When recording a loop, say, one note, the note will decay at a relatively >normal rate, but then suddenly cut completely out after falling below a >certain lvel. I've tried this in several different modes, with and >without threshold, and nothing helps it. > >I'm also noticing quite a bit more digital noise on the looped sound >during recording and playback than I previously have. I had previously >been unable to tell the original signal from the loop, but there's now >quite a bit of aliasing I can hear. > >Can Kim or anyone else *please* send me any information that can help. I >am UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES prepared to send the unit to Oberheim, since it >has been well-documented on this list that they have had very poor >customer relations and have in some cases kept Echoplexes several months >without communication. I'll take the unit directly to Kim for work if >need be (and if possible), but as my previous post mentioned, I have a >very impotant gig coming up, and if I cannot get the Oberheim repaired, >than I'll be forced to cancel the performance. > >Unfortunately, I'll also be forced to seriously reconsider the long-term >feasibility of trying to work with what increasingly appears to be a >highly bug-ridden machine with no official support available to it. So >again, if anyone can offer help, then please do. Otherwise, my days with >the Echoplex may be seriously numbered... > >--Andre ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Oct 13 02:50:30 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 13 02:10:30 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCMZ3-00062t-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 02:10:29 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCMZ3-0001dd-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 02:10:29 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 02:06:14 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: One other bit of help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"9GnjZD.A.AgB.ZGLYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/504 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 02:10:29 -0700 X-UIDL: f7d588b78bd9f3621129926ea14203a0 Yet another addendum, this one to the last post: If anyone does indeed carry out the Echoplex signal decay test I described, please try experimenting with different input knob levels; see if the signal cuts off abruptly if the level is in fact too low. Gee, ain't it great to share one's moment of crisis with a bunch of strangers the world over? ; - / Your help is in fact greatly appreciated. I'll try to leave you all alone for a little bit, now... --TMH From ???@??? Sun Oct 13 02:50:34 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 13 02:26:32 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCMoa-0006Er-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 02:26:32 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCMoZ-0001pH-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 02:26:31 -0700 Date: 13 Oct 96 05:22:32 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Andre's Plex Problem -- Latest Chapter Message-ID: <961013092231_100041.247_JHB93-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"agO6xB.A.crB.gVLYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/505 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 02:26:31 -0700 X-UIDL: eef72e50236241f00db4d39e0a61afee hi Andre, > Right now it looks like I'll be rescheduling the recital, unless I can > find a very fast remedy to the problem. if I were you, I'd try to find someone in your area who can lend you another Plex for the gig. (I'm in Germany, so ...) -Michael From ???@??? Sun Oct 13 03:00:28 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 13 02:53:25 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCNEb-0006fB-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 02:53:25 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCNEb-00025S-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 02:53:25 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 02:50:09 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: delay tricks & Indian classical music Resent-Message-ID: <"UwwYEC.A.A7B.-uLYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/506 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 02:53:25 -0700 X-UIDL: 636fc2bf59d5a82c4084f3bb3e5cbfb9 Chris said: >Here's a method I learned in tabla lessons, which helps me hear and >"internalize" some of these polyrhythms: > >I'll use your example -- 5 : 2 -- > >1. Use your hands to count the 5: Clap on the 1, then strike your fingers >of one hand , (alternately), on the palm of your other hand to count the 2 >through 5. > > >Do this slowly for a bit, at a steady pace, until you don't have to think >about it. > >Now the other side of the polyrhythm will be done with your voice: Choose >a repeating note/word sequence, with one sound per count (of the 5). For >example, the traditional 5 count tabla note sequence goes: >TA KAY TA KEE TA. > In college I took a class in West African music performance. (Taught by C.K. Ladzekpo at UC Berkeley) What is interesting is that he taught polyrhythms in a similar way, using voice and clapping. It says something about human nature that different cultures happened upon similar methods for effective teaching, doesn't it? In order to pass the class, one thing we had to do was clap the basic gonkugui (sp?) bell pattern, which is a four beat, three vs four polyrhythmic pattern that underlies much of the traditional music from Ghana. While clapping this, we had to count 2 bars each of every possible eighth and triplet beat division of the 4 beat bar. So: whole notes, half notes, half note triplets, quarter notes, triplet quarters, eighth notes, triplet eighths, sixteenths, and sextuplets. It took me the whole semester to be able to do this at all, and I still wasn't very good. I started that class thinking that I knew something about rhythm since I had been playing music for a long time. I was humbled very quickly! In a good way though. I learned that I knew almost nothing about rhythms, other than the very basic structures in western music. It pushed me, and showed me how important a rhythmic language is to expression in music. Gave me just enough tools to get started learning more. One thing that western listeners often miss in rhythmically based music is that emotions are expressed through the rhythm patterns themselves, rather than in harmony. Cross rhythms and syncopation are used to generate tension, which is resolved with more "consonant" rhythms falling on regular beat intervals. Different rhythmic patterns are used compositionally to represent different emotional feels, in much the way western music tends to use particular harmonic progressions to impart emotion. A while back there was a thread involving tension and resolution, where someone was talking about how looping doesn't have tensions and resolutions and therefore represents a form of music beyond what can be explained by standard western music theory. I'm not sure I totally agree with such a statement (which I probably have totally wrong here), since it seemed to be focused on harmonic tension. But it made me think about the ways tension and resolution do occur in repetitive and looped music. Since looping enforces the regular occurance of events in the loop, rhythm seems to be much more important, at least for me. One thing that happens in West African music, and I imagine elsewhere, is that tense polyrhythms will occur in one part of the pattern and resolve into even rhythms in another part. So you might have several instruments pulling against each other while playing a complicated cross rhythm over beats 1, 2, and 3, and all come together on the beat for 4 and 1. This tension-release pattern will repeat for that section of the song, and the next section of the song will have a different repeating pattern. This sort of thing works really well in looping, since it is easy to add a lot of odd rhythms in one part of the loop while another part is nice and even. You can even slowly begin emphasizing one part over the other with multiple overdub passes. So each pass might include a percussive note played on the same beat each time, reinforcing the feeling that everything comes together at that point. Or each pass may include a different part of polyrhythm, making it more complex and tense with each pass. Undo lets you remove the emphasis again. Another thing that I have found to be very interesting about looping is that a very non-rhythmic event, by virtue of being repeated in a regular interval, becomes rhythmic! Naturally I discovered this by accident, because I totally blew something I was trying to play, but let it loop anyhow. By itself, it was rhythmically horrible, but as a loop, it became a fantastically weird rhythm. It produces a great kind of tension, because you have a terrible time predicting where it happens in the loop yet it always happens in that same spot! I've done this a lot since, both accidentally and intentionally, and it makes a great effect. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Oct 13 11:41:17 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 13 07:20:02 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCROb-0001mA-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 07:20:01 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCROa-0002Jk-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 07:20:00 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 07:13:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199610131413.HAA09021@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: Re: Echoplex heating up? Resent-Message-ID: <"h0DA7C.A.SJC.5oPYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/507 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 07:20:00 -0700 X-UIDL: 21f482a0756eddc9119cc1196b39f03e Rob wrote: >I noticed on Harmony Central effects reviews that a user had a thermal >problem with the Echoplex containing a full 16MB of memory, so that >some of the controls would not respond. Has anyone had this problem, >and also heard of possible solutions? > >Rob > > Yes, I did. In fact the first plex I took home was so screwed up, it went back to the dealer next day, and I went into the back and picked out one in a sealed box. Given the enormous amount of money I had just spent, this did nothing for confidence. However, the second one is fine and has been running for a year, no probs. The symptoms were very odd, like function buttons on the footpedal not "talking" correctly to the box. Incidentally, this had nothing to do with being loaded with 16MB, it did it right out of the box with 12 sec config. The salesman told me one other guy had the same problem, and that it was "solved" by racking the Obie away from other devices. Since I REALLY REALLY wanted the features of this box, and the second unit worked fine, I've stuck with it. And then of course there are still the (more than) occasional pop on reverse (which can be minimized by picking "just" the right moment to reverse) and "start point" problems remaining. No one has mentioned the thermal problem, and I'd nearly forgotten about it. I took the precaution of putting the Obie at the bottom of the rack, with an empty space above it, and then all other devices above it. I don't know if it's necessary and I wish I could rack it wherever I want...but so far, so good. Kim - what's the sordid tale on this little problem? Hopefully limited to some of the first few that shipped??? dave at studio seventeen p.s. no matter what, get the Obie. It does SO MUCH MORE than the JAMMAN (which I tried for a month) it's more than worth the difference in money. 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * It takes eleven minutes to fill, * * and six minutes to empty... * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Sun Oct 13 11:41:19 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 13 07:24:37 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCRT2-0001qy-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 07:24:36 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCRT2-0002OQ-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 07:24:36 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 07:18:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199610131418.HAA09027@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: memory prices Resent-Message-ID: <"lrboMD.A.0NC.rtPYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/508 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 07:24:36 -0700 X-UIDL: 425dc06c5e817582a4f9dfafed8b41cf > Chris , where did you get your 108 sec 'Plex ? The best price I've heard >lately is $575 for 12 sec model incl. footswitch. Also Ram prices have >risen a bit lately and 4Mb chips for the 'Plex are $43 from Chip Merchants. >They have had the lowest prices I've seen. So that would be $172 more >to fully load it at 198 sec. >I got my 'plex thru Manny's music for $479 (not including the foot pedal -- >that was $70 or $80 more). I based my memory price on Kim's $30 / 4 >MB quote. My advice is buy now. About a month ago memory prices started rising (which they generally do prior to the Christmas season). I just paid $41.00 each for 4M (At Chip Merchant) and that would have been in the low thirties a month or so ago. I'm told they will CONTINUE to increase until at least December, possibly up to $50/4M. This is apparently standard procedure, if memory goes up, computer prices go up, and all those computers for Christmas presents make the mfrs extra profits. Then after all the sales, the prices go back down. America is a wonderful place isn't it! dave 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * It takes eleven minutes to fill, * * and six minutes to empty... * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Sun Oct 13 12:36:09 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 13 12:08:00 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCVtG-0000MB-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 12:07:58 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCVtF-00050n-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 12:07:57 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 12:02:32 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Echoplex heating up? Resent-Message-ID: <"Jz_PyC.A.kpE.10TYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/509 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 12:07:57 -0700 X-UIDL: 1d2ebf646178813a66124e37ab239e8c >Rob wrote: >>I noticed on Harmony Central effects reviews that a user had a thermal >>problem with the Echoplex containing a full 16MB of memory, so that >>some of the controls would not respond. Has anyone had this problem, >>and also heard of possible solutions? >> >>Rob Dave replied: >No one has mentioned the thermal problem, and I'd nearly forgotten about it. >I took the precaution of putting the Obie at the bottom of the rack, with an >empty space above it, and then all other devices above it. I don't know if >it's necessary and I wish I could rack it wherever I want...but so far, so >good. > > >Kim - what's the sordid tale on this little problem? Hopefully limited to >some of the first few that shipped??? > >dave at studio seventeen I already answered this, but I guess it bears repeating. There was a small design error that caused strange behaviors when the Echoplex was hot. The usual symptom was that pressing the Undo button would execute Record instead. Basically, a pin on one of the IC's was connected to +5 volts when it shouldn't have been connected to anything. This didn't have any effect normally, but when the unit got hot you would see the problem. Cutting the pin fixes the problem, and the Echoplex works fine at much higher temperatures. Newer units should have this fixed. I don't know which serial numbers would have the mod, but probably any unit newer than 9 months. You can do the mod yourself pretty easily if you feel comfortable working on electronics. You just need to cut pin 5 of U12, the IC with part number ADC0804. If you are facing the front of the unit, pin 5 would be the 5th pin from the left end of the chip, on the front panel side. If you don't think you can do it yourself, any competent electronics tech should be able to handle it. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Oct 13 14:12:32 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 13 13:06:07 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCWnW-0001ut-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 13:06:06 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCWnV-0005YR-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 13:06:05 -0700 Message-ID: <32614B13.A65@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 13:03:31 -0700 From: Jim Poppen X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: re: PLEX OWNERS: I need your help... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"Rr8KbB.A.OLF.VtUYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/510 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 13:06:05 -0700 X-UIDL: a089f3ca0efe5d0a21b87c3b354519eb >1) Plug a guitar directly into the Plex, then run the Plex directly >into a monitor system/amp/mixer. Nothing else before or after in the >signal chain. > >2) Play one note, and let it decay for as long as possible. When you >can't hear the note any longer, cloe the loop and begin the playback. > >3) Listen very closely to the decay of the note. Does it sound just as >it was originally played, or is there a sudden drastic cutoff in sound >when the decay of the note reaches a cetain point? Andre, I've just completed the experiment. I let an open A ring for about 15 seconds, and with the input and output at 12 o'clock, the note cuts off at ten seconds. With input at 9 o'clock and output at 3 o'clock, the note dies abruptly after about 7 seconds. Hope this helps... Jim From ???@??? Sun Oct 13 14:12:34 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 13 13:25:12 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCX5z-0002UI-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 13:25:12 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCX60-0005m8-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 13:25:12 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 16:26:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Sean Malone X-Sender: malone@satie To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: JamMan memory...where? In-Reply-To: <32614B13.A65@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"tnwhlD.A.yYF.f_UYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/511 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 13:25:12 -0700 X-UIDL: c7c9c1ced8582a0bc48709e0333578ff Sorry to repeat this topic again, But for those of you who have purchased memory for the JamMan through a company other than Lexicon, could you please pass on the info? The Lexicon prices are a bit pricey. thanks, Sean From ???@??? Sun Oct 13 23:02:13 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 13 16:28:03 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCZww-0007YO-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 16:28:02 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCZwt-0007m3-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 16:27:59 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 16:23:55 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Looks like it's cool... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"PZDmzC.A.XQH.eqXYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/515 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 16:28:00 -0700 X-UIDL: 8a16f1cd3729c092162fd82fd90ec995 Well, folks, it's time for me to pull my foot out of my mouth, I think. Thanks *very* much to those of you who have responded with the test on the Plex; everyone has indicated the same basic "problem" with note decay. So it seems tht I had, in fact, not noticed this ideosyncrasy until now. At least I know the thing's in proper functioning order. Matthias sez: > Now you say, that there is a distortion, if you send more. So THIS is > probably the defect in your unit. And it might be quite simple, in the > analog input stage, possibly in context with the broken potentiometer that > might create a DC disalignment... Actually, this clipping distortion is very common, and I've noticed that since day one. _Guitar Player_ magazine mentioned it in their review as well; the input level on the Plex is just very sensitive, and it's note uncommon to drive the A/D converter too hard, producing digital distortion. A compressor at some point prior to the input is a good idea. > Lets not charge the list too much with such stuff, please. For the most part I agree wholeheartedly; let me again apologize for taking up quite a bit of bandwidth with what has proved to be a non-existent problem, particularly to Kim, whose correct diagnosis I erroneously doubted. (At least he can glean some comic relief from the panic-striken voice on his answering machine...) Nonetheless, I *do* think that the list should be able to accomodate emergencies such as this, i.e. problems with the potential to cause series hassle for impending gigs/projects/etc. God knows where I'd have been without y'all to provide some much-needed assistance. Given that we're all using fringe technology that's still in the embryonic stages of evolution, I think one of the advantages of a list such as this is to provide technical support. Anyway, I'll attempt a graceful fade into the background for right now, and try to make room for less tragic (or is that comedic) endeavors. The gig shall carry on unhindered. Thanks again to all of you. Until the next impending apocalypse, --Andre From ???@??? Sun Oct 13 23:02:08 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 13 15:27:58 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCZ0n-0005oK-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 15:27:57 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCZ0l-00072I-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 15:27:55 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 20:29:25 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: hum cancelling Resent-Message-ID: <"AIKB3D.A.ghG.6wWYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/512 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 15:27:55 -0700 X-UIDL: 27671ab7a69b6fa8a81f3b555c2cc44b Dear Michael Do not trust in another "cancelling" device. FIX the problem! >Guitar picks are not the problem, there is hum without guitars as well. I >guess I have to rewire everything ... Arn't guitar picks little plastic triangles.... making "'tack" not "hum"? >Hey, it's great to participate in a mailing list which is so responding! >Thanks again. mmmm - thats just the first eurphoric trance.... One day we will have to go back to work and leave the chat. But so far, I think its incredible how much information of all types we collected: Roots CDs Books Equipment Setups Vendors That's why I think its so important to organize and offer this info. Then we go on creating and just complete the info from time to time. Otherwhise the list keeps repeating the same stuff forever, I see that in other lists. Matthias From ???@??? Sun Oct 13 23:02:10 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 13 15:30:10 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCZ2v-0005rE-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 15:30:09 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCZ2t-00074s-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 15:30:07 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 20:29:33 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other Resent-Message-ID: <"qdlK5C.A.flG.GzWYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/513 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 15:30:07 -0700 X-UIDL: 6b32de2e89811cf96652cf711edc31ed >> I compiled 6 subjects, but not the one about Vortex, because I do not >> own one yet. > >Too bad. Just got mine today and am suddenly very interested in this thread >. > >> I hope one of the Vortex users can offer the 20 minutes to do it > >I'd do it but I've already deleted all the old messages. Hmpf! > That shall not be the problem. I can send you ! Either I send the whole Loopers Delight folder (easyer for me) or I redirect all the messages with Vortex context to you. The folder is a Eudora specific one and I use Mac. I am not sure whether it will be compatible with another platform. Matthias From ???@??? Sun Oct 13 23:02:11 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 13 15:33:44 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCZ6N-0005yU-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 15:33:43 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCZ6K-00079h-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 15:33:40 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 20:36:27 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: One other bit of help Resent-Message-ID: <"txycpC.A.IrG.k3WYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/514 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 15:33:40 -0700 X-UIDL: e1ec7685be0a128cbe46d7f4e5019130 TMH, in despair: >If anyone does indeed carry out the Echoplex signal decay test I >described, please try experimenting with different input knob levels; see >if the signal cuts off abruptly if the level is in fact too low. I did that test xxx times. >Gee, ain't it great to share one's moment of crisis with a bunch of >strangers the world over? ; - / You should show it on TV. All the moms would cry... :-) I can fully support Kims statements. If the noisgate switches AND the dig noise appears, you do not sent enough signal to the converter. Now you say, that there is a distortion, if you send more. So THIS is probably the defect in your unit. And it might be quite simple, in the analog input stage, possibly in context with the broken potentiometer that might create a DC disalignment... Lets not charge the list too much with such stuff, please. Matthias From ???@??? Sun Oct 13 23:02:16 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 13 18:04:19 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCbS5-0002ee-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 18:04:18 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCbS3-000139-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 18:04:15 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="============_-1366863812==_============" Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 23:04:44 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Echoplex heating up? Resent-Message-ID: <"7D4O1C.A.j7.HDZYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/516 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 18:04:15 -0700 X-UIDL: 9f5d470f34a647f7fa2b4eece9b7e708 Kim said about the the fixing of a HW bug: > >Newer units should have this fixed. I don't know which serial numbers would >have the mod, but probably any unit newer than 9 months. You can do the mod >yourself pretty easily if you feel comfortable working on electronics. You >just need to cut pin 5 of U12, the IC with part number ADC0804. If you are >facing the front of the unit, pin 5 would be the 5th pin from the left end >of the chip, on the front panel side. > >If you don't think you can do it yourself, any competent electronics tech >should be able to handle it. I made a drawing to this, which I include here as JPEG (hope that works!). Matthias Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:ADCBUG.JPG (JPEG/GCon) (0000D3BC) From ???@??? Sun Oct 13 23:02:21 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 13 21:47:14 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCevp-000299-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 21:47:13 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCevn-0003NW-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 21:47:11 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 00:47:38 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: JamMan memory...where? Resent-Message-ID: <"772SLC.A.MHD.HUcYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/517 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 21:47:11 -0700 X-UIDL: 2a83ded101ee2ad2886ba0538c8001f1 Yes, I purchased my chips from Chips for Less, Inc. PO Box 816216 Dallas, TX 75381-6216 @ 214/250-0009 good price ... don't remember it offhand ... nice guy owns it Paul From ???@??? Sun Oct 13 23:47:51 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 13 23:40:19 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCghF-0005cH-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 23:40:17 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCghD-0004YC-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 23:40:15 -0700 Date: 14 Oct 96 02:26:04 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: PERSONAL PROFILES: A couple of other Message-ID: <961014062604_100041.247_JHB62-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"eKCxsC.A.HOE.3-dYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/518 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 23:40:15 -0700 X-UIDL: 2f33c42d27f56bd48fdd25c38d8073b1 > The folder is a Eudora specific one and I use Mac. I am not sure whether > it will be compatible with another platform. I run a PC, but I have Eudora. Why don't you make a new folder with 1 or 2 messages and send it to me for a test. And please if you do, send it not to my home email address but to my office (where I have better software to decipher attachments) at mp@harold-scholz.de -Michael From ???@??? Mon Oct 14 09:58:23 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 13 23:58:05 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCgyS-00061u-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 23:58:04 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCgyK-0004oZ-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 23:57:57 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 23:47:56 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Archives up on the web! Resent-Message-ID: <"RP-xGC.A.FcE.RPeYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/520 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 23:57:57 -0700 X-UIDL: f699651cd8e56eb2e847441fcd003301 For those of you hungering to read all of the prolific postings of Looper's Delight over its six week history, I've put all of it up on the Archive section of the web page! I've generally got two text files for each week. The files are between 40k and 100k. I think I got the text format right, I never quite remember whether its line feeds or carriage returns or whatever. I looks ok in Netscape, anyway. If anyone finds a problem, let me know. The URL is: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/archive/archive.html I've also got the files Matthias made by selecting posts according to subject up there. Let me tell you, it took hours to edit all of the obnoxious headers down! I've got one of those headaches you get when you don't change eye focus for too many hours....yow! enjoy, kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Oct 14 09:58:18 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 13 23:57:45 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCgy7-00061M-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 23:57:43 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCgy0-0004o9-00; Sun, 13 Oct 1996 23:57:36 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 23:47:58 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Looks like it's cool... Resent-Message-ID: <"nRLNFC.A.AcE.QPeYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/519 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 23:57:36 -0700 X-UIDL: 03b2ad7a3219d049d116247ad0f5b0fc Andre said: >Well, folks, it's time for me to pull my foot out of my mouth, I think. >Thanks *very* much to those of you who have responded with the test on the >Plex; everyone has indicated the same basic "problem" with note decay. > >So it seems tht I had, in fact, not noticed this ideosyncrasy until now. >At least I know the thing's in proper functioning order. Good to see you're feeling a bit better, Andre. Glad we could help! Sorry about the decay problem, we'll try to create some new functions to make that easier to deal with on a future software version. For now, its a design tradeoff that we have to live with for a while. Funny thing here is, if you look for the decay cutoff you can find it, but you are the first person to actually bring it up that I know of. I guess in most people's applications, it doesn't come up. Tells me the design choice was right, although we'll see if we can come up with a way to improve it. Matthias: >> Lets not charge the list too much with such stuff, please. > >For the most part I agree wholeheartedly; let me again apologize for >taking up quite a bit of bandwidth with what has proved to be a >non-existent problem, particularly to Kim, whose correct diagnosis I >erroneously doubted. (At least he can glean some comic relief from the >panic-striken voice on his answering machine...) You gave me a g-wiz flashback, but that's ok.... >Nonetheless, I *do* think that the list should be able to accomodate >emergencies such as this, i.e. problems with the potential to cause >series hassle for impending gigs/projects/etc. God knows where I'd have >been without y'all to provide some much-needed assistance. Given that >we're all using fringe technology that's still in the embryonic stages of >evolution, I think one of the advantages of a list such as this is to >provide technical support. > I agree with Andre....this can be a useful tool to help people out of a difficult situation in a short amount of time. The tradeoff, of course, is that in a public forum you will undoubtedly have people only glancing at things. They see the initially outraged/paniced description of a problem, but maybe miss the resolution. They then wind up with opinions that the item in question may not totally deserve, or are out of proportion with the real situation. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Oct 14 09:58:24 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 14 00:14:54 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vChEj-0006SJ-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 00:14:53 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vChEi-00052r-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 00:14:52 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 23:54:03 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Old posts (was PERSONAL PROFILES) Resent-Message-ID: <"x-Oh1.A.psE.JgeYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/521 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 00:14:52 -0700 X-UIDL: b9ebf7b36decd0ec1a8a7b44bd04ede9 >> The folder is a Eudora specific one and I use Mac. I am not sure whether >> it will be compatible with another platform. > >I run a PC, but I have Eudora. Why don't you make a new folder with 1 or 2 >messages and send it to me for a test. And please if you do, send it not to >my home email address but to my office (where I have better software to >decipher attachments) at mp@harold-scholz.de > >-Michael > > I just put all the old posts up on the web site, which may make this easier. There isn't a Vortex specific archive; its all in chronological order, spread across multiple text files. There aren't any search tools yet either, so might want to just bring up each file and use the find command in your browser. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Oct 14 09:58:37 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 14 04:37:34 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vClKv-0003FZ-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 04:37:33 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vClKt-0005Pv-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 04:37:31 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 96 07:32:42 EDT From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) Message-Id: <9610141132.AA22230@ibx.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Back Issues Resent-Message-ID: <"EDkxhB.A.29E.UWiYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/522 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 04:37:31 -0700 X-UIDL: 5e86c5da61ddb169c030caac2bb8cdf0 As a new subscriber, I am interested in a digest of old messages? Does anyone maintain a folder of this information that can be emailed? From ???@??? Mon Oct 14 09:58:38 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 14 04:43:27 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vClQd-0003Kj-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 04:43:27 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vClQd-0005WY-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 04:43:27 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 96 07:38:51 EDT From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) Message-Id: <9610141138.AA22341@ibx.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: More to my posting Resent-Message-ID: <"aZu5HB.A.xJF.TciYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/523 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 04:43:27 -0700 X-UIDL: 1c92f8dedcbf1660c6b7c3b66597d0d3 I forgot to mention that I have mail only access. So I cannot access the web page for the digest. I am on SunOS. From ???@??? Mon Oct 14 09:58:41 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 14 07:51:16 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCoMN-0007gZ-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 07:51:15 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCoMN-000764-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 07:51:15 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 10:41:53 -0400 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961014104152_333366419@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Archives up on the web! Resent-Message-ID: <"yGBwTD.A.WjG.0FlYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/524 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 07:51:15 -0700 X-UIDL: 6fd0ef8ae8885c71b89ee6ee662645ac A thousand thanks Kim. From ???@??? Mon Oct 14 09:58:43 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 14 09:46:43 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCqA4-0001b2-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 09:46:40 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCqA2-0000Xb-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 09:46:38 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 96 12:39:21 EDT From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) Message-Id: <9610141639.AA25352@ibx.com> To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: literature Resent-Message-ID: <"IsmfpC.A.bc.m1mYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/525 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 09:46:38 -0700 X-UIDL: f8634887defa7074e8dd827adfd7410a Can anyone recommend any instructional literature on polyrhythmic playing? victor fiorillo, philadelphia From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 00:27:53 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 14 10:08:19 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCqV0-0002bx-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 10:08:18 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCqV0-0000nj-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 10:08:18 -0700 Sender: martino@ctron.com Message-Id: <3262723E.33FADC43@ctron.com> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:02:54 -0400 From: Rob Martino Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: polyrhythm References: <9610141639.AA25352@ibx.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"_CdaZB.A.aq.7HnYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/526 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 10:08:18 -0700 X-UIDL: 9b5b7d37c7a6140adafdd5642af2554b Is polyrhythmic looping something we might see soon on a future version of the Echoplex or other device? The possibilities sound fascinating, but I couldn't really afford multiple Echoplexi to do it (I'm still on the verge of just buying my first one!) Rob Martino From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 00:27:55 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 14 10:31:32 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCqrR-0003ng-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 10:31:30 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCqrR-00013m-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 10:31:29 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:29:01 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) Message-Id: <199610141729.NAA11861@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: polyrhythm X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"C1C0wD.A.a5.MdnYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/527 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 10:31:29 -0700 X-UIDL: 2a08fe3fec8c72ff1f0368a5c89102c2 > Is polyrhythmic looping something we might see soon on a future version > of the Echoplex or other device? The possibilities sound fascinating, > but I couldn't really afford multiple Echoplexi to do it (I'm still > on the verge of just buying my first one!) > You should be able to do it now. Most non-prime polyrhythms will converge and repeat eventually. You just have to record the entire sequence manually until you reach the convergence point. Its not as convenient as being able to record one measure of each rhythm then getting a device to mesh it all together but it can be done the hard way. It just takes more memory. Clark From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 00:27:57 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 14 10:46:17 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCr5k-0004W7-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 10:46:16 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCr5k-0001FX-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 10:46:16 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:43:38 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961014134336_1111901526@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Observations from playing experience & Gripes w/Oberheim Customer Service Resent-Message-ID: <"82s_aC.A.HIB.MwnYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/528 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 10:46:16 -0700 X-UIDL: 8b10f9a5b048a8793142ef9408610ca3 1. Playing Experience Observations Recent chat about the UNDO function reminds me of this... UNDO Can Kill The Loop Has anyone else experienced this. You're happily creating a loop. 10-20 minutes of layering, reversing and undoing. Life is good and the loop is happening. Then, you press the UNDO button (on the footpedal of course) and suddenly you're engulfed in silence. Somehow, invoking the UNDO function has erased the loop. I've since stopped using the UNDO function. I can't be performing infront of people and have this type of thing happen. 2. Gripes w/Oberheim Customer Service I called Oberheim about this (many times of course each time being answered by their answering service). Three weeks later!!! I get a call back and Oberheim ask me to send my 'plex to their Oakland offices. No garantees as to when I may get it back. Unfortunately, I had a string of gigs to play using the echoplex so that was not possible. If I was really famous, maybe they would call back more promptly. Or maybe I could buy a few 'plexes to have as back-up. As it is I'm just little old me, trying to make living with a really cool tool from a very unresponsive vendor. I've since been told that Oberheim has a staff of three. By the way, when I was first trying to buy the echoplex this summer no-one in Boston had one and a few places thought they were out of business!!! Local Gibson reps who tour the retail chains weren't aware of Oberheim products. It's a pitty that such neato engineering is being so under-marketed. David Kirkdorffer P.S. This UNDO problem has had a good side to it. Since experiencing the problem, I've adopted UNDO as the name of my solo ambient project. From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 00:27:59 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 14 11:03:22 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCrMH-0005Lb-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 11:03:21 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCrMH-0001TN-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 11:03:21 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:01:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner X-Sender: dstagner@icarus.icarus.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: polyrhythm In-Reply-To: <3262723E.33FADC43@ctron.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"NL_K3D.A.yVB.x_nYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/529 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 11:03:21 -0700 X-UIDL: 8e9627600837d69b07499e1016088388 On Mon, 14 Oct 1996, Rob Martino wrote: > Is polyrhythmic looping something we might see soon on a future version > of the Echoplex or other device? The possibilities sound fascinating, > but I couldn't really afford multiple Echoplexi to do it (I'm still > on the verge of just buying my first one!) > > Rob Martino I don't know about the Echoplex, but you could probably do some short polyrhythmic looping with the Vortex. Depends on what sort of "polyrhythm" you're trying to get. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. -Charles Fort dstagner@icarus.net From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 00:28:03 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 14 12:09:34 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCsOK-0000sn-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 12:09:32 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCsOK-0002Lv-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 12:09:32 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961014191109.00726d4c@xenon.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@xenon.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 12:11:09 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Observations from playing experience & Gripes w/Oberheim Customer Service Resent-Message-ID: <"1ee_gC.A.lJC.x7oYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/531 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 12:09:32 -0700 X-UIDL: bed141731039276bf2550f94b5d2858e At 01:43 PM 10/14/96 -0400, you wrote: >1. Playing Experience Observations > >Recent chat about the UNDO function reminds me of this... > >UNDO Can Kill The Loop >Has anyone else experienced this. You're happily creating a loop. 10-20 >minutes of layering, reversing and undoing. Life is good and the loop is >happening. Then, you press the UNDO button (on the footpedal of course) and >suddenly you're engulfed in silence. Somehow, invoking the UNDO function has >erased the loop. >I've since stopped using the UNDO function. I can't be performing infront of >people and have this type of thing happen. This is the same thermal problem that was discussed a few days ago. There is a very easy hardware fix that solves it completely. Basically, when the unit gets hot, Undo sometimes executes the record function. If you do the hardware mod, the echoplex can run at much higher temperatures without problems. I don't have time to explain it again now, but look back to posts from last week for the info. Matthias even posted a nice jpeg showing how to do the mod! kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 OEM Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 00:28:01 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 14 11:50:52 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCs6D-00001m-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 11:50:49 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCs6D-000279-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 11:50:49 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:48:06 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Observations from playing experience & Gripes w/Oberheim Customer Service Resent-Message-ID: <"4fax7D.A.S6B.RooYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/530 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 11:50:49 -0700 X-UIDL: 6c0194dbed5cb9783a0b4870d8c10b0f I've had somewhat better service from the Lexicon people on issues with my Jamman ... for what it is worth. From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 00:28:05 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 14 12:55:26 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCt6i-0003FZ-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 12:55:24 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCt6k-0002t7-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 12:55:26 -0700 Sender: martino@ctron.com Message-Id: <32629B71.36A6BBF9@ctron.com> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 15:58:41 -0400 From: Rob Martino Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; SunOS 4.1.3_U1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: polyrhythm References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"IsvUGC.A.pqC.topYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/532 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 12:55:26 -0700 X-UIDL: fad0fc3db561d42acd98a117389e48ff Dave Stagner wrote: > > On Mon, 14 Oct 1996, Rob Martino wrote: > > > Is polyrhythmic looping something we might see soon on a future version > > of the Echoplex or other device? The possibilities sound fascinating, > > but I couldn't really afford multiple Echoplexi to do it (I'm still > > on the verge of just buying my first one!) > > > > Rob Martino > > I don't know about the Echoplex, but you could probably do some short > polyrhythmic looping with the Vortex. Depends on what sort of > "polyrhythm" you're trying to get. King Crimson "Discipline" sort of stuff. Record a phrase in 7/4, then overdub a phrase in 4/4 or 3/4, so you get a continual shifting effect. Like someone just mentioned, I guess the best solution for now is to record each phrase until they converge. In the 7/4 and 4/4 case, I guess that would be 28 beats, if I'm picturing this correctly. Rob Martino From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 00:28:06 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 14 13:34:07 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCti9-0005Lc-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:34:05 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCti8-0003JN-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:34:04 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:29:09 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Ya might find this interesting... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"HoKUIB.A.8DD.4MqYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/533 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:34:04 -0700 X-UIDL: dcc502ba19e689755681a2109abb93e6 Hello loopoids -- When I was under the impression that my Plex was damaged, I sent e-mail to Mike Lyon at Gibson inquiring as to repair possibilities. I recieved a reply from him today (Monday). Since there are at least a few of us on here who have some doubts and trepidations about Oberheim's present readiness to perform repair work, I thought I'd forward his message to the list. (My original message is contained after his reply.) Read and ponder, --Andre ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 09:18:57 -0500 From: Mike Lyon To: altruist@shoko.calarts.edu Subject: Echoplex Repair -Reply The unit can be brought to 732 Kevin Ct Oakland, CA 94621 510 635-9633. The unit will have to dropped and left for at least four days. It will generally take this long to perform the repair, re calibrate, burn in and test again. If the problem is simple it may take a little less time. If you give me a explanation of the problems I will be in a better position to give you a time frame. Thanks................................... Mike >>> The Man Himself 10/12/96 09:30pm >>> Hello -- I have an Oberheim Echoplex unit which is in need of repair. As I am based in the Los Angeles area, I am prepared to take the unit directly to Oberheim for repair, and to wait in the area while the work is carried out. I have unfortunately heard many troubling things regarding customer relations as far as Echoplex go, so I therefore need to drop the unit off in person rather than send it to an arbitrary location in order to ensure that I am able to get the unit back as soon as possible (or for that matter, get the unit back period). So please tell me who and where I can deliver the unit to. As I am in a rather critical situation with regards to time in this matter, I will appreciate your prompt reply. Thanks. --Andre LaFosse From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 00:28:08 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 14 13:40:05 1996 Received: from mouse.slip.net [204.160.88.102] by ferret.slip.net with smtp (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCtnw-0005jX-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:40:04 -0700 Received: from lists by mouse.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #1) id E0vCtnu-0003Pr-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:40:02 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:35:41 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: More on polyrhythms Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"XAPtvC.A.TKD.3SqYy"@mouse> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/534 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 13:40:02 -0700 X-UIDL: 60390092790a498d068f85302c99b85c As has been mentioned here before, the Vortex has two independent delays, which are programmed as subdivisions of a basic pulse rather than in terms of milliseconds. Each delay can be subdivided from 1 to 64, which lends itself to all sorts of wierd polyrhythmic possibilities. (At last I can cop those chart-topping 17 against 33 polyrhythms. Get Glen Ballard on the phone now!) The one drawback is that the maximum delay time on the Tex is less than two seconds, meaning that the higher-increment values tend to be less discernible as much more than a slap-back type of effect. One interesting applcation I've found is setting up a loop and then altering the tap tempo subdivisions while the loops is spinning. It chops the loop in all sorts of interesting ways, and sets up numerous polyrythmic/odd metered possibilities. Ciao, --Andre From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 00:28:10 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 14 14:12:43 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCuJW-0007N8-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:12:42 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 16:10:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner X-Sender: dstagner@icarus.icarus.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: More on polyrhythms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"lI47yC.A.HyG.IxqYy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/535 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 14:12:42 -0700 X-UIDL: 3712e4c7690a50097e44e1784a1e9ec6 On Mon, 14 Oct 1996, The Man Himself wrote: > As has been mentioned here before, the Vortex has two independent delays, > which are programmed as subdivisions of a basic pulse rather than in > terms of milliseconds. Each delay can be subdivided from 1 to 64, which > lends itself to all sorts of wierd polyrhythmic possibilities. (At last > I can cop those chart-topping 17 against 33 polyrhythms. Get Glen > Ballard on the phone now!) This polyrhythm stuff reminds me of "The King Crimson Barbershop Quartet", a little Tony Levin piece tacked onto the end of the "Frame By Frame" boxed set... "So sit back and have some fun And tap your foot in twenty-oooone...." A rare moment of Crimso levity. :} -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. -Charles Fort dstagner@icarus.net From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 00:28:16 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 14 16:00:41 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCvzz-0005Ax-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 16:00:39 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 21:01:27 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Looks like it's cool... Resent-Message-ID: <"oC8hV.A.HwE.uWsYy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/536 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 16:00:39 -0700 X-UIDL: 9e14ca6d1b6fbea6e201e238dde5c52f >Andre said: >>Well, folks, it's time for me to pull my foot out of my mouth, I think. >>Thanks *very* much to those of you who have responded with the test on the >>Plex; everyone has indicated the same basic "problem" with note decay. >> >>So it seems tht I had, in fact, not noticed this ideosyncrasy until now. >>At least I know the thing's in proper functioning order. Kim, releived: >Good to see you're feeling a bit better, Andre. Glad we could help! idem >Sorry about the decay problem, we'll try to create some new functions to >make that easier to deal with on a future software version. For now, its a >design tradeoff that we have to live with for a while. Funny thing here is, >if you look for the decay cutoff you can find it, but you are the first >person to actually bring it up that I know of. I guess in most people's >applications, it doesn't come up. Tells me the design choice was right, >although we'll see if we can come up with a way to improve it. Hey, wait a minute! Should apologise for a necessary feature I worked a lot for? Even more since I managed to hide it so it only helps and never becomes notable? >Matthias: >>> Lets not charge the list too much with such stuff, please. >> >>For the most part I agree wholeheartedly; let me again apologize for >>taking up quite a bit of bandwidth with what has proved to be a >>non-existent problem, particularly to Kim, whose correct diagnosis I >>erroneously doubted. (At least he can glean some comic relief from the >>panic-striken voice on his answering machine...) Thats fine. I worked a lot repairing for musicians and more than 50% of the cases there was no error! I learned about the various conditions that lead us to think that something is wrong or inverse - thats a new subject... >>Nonetheless, I *do* think that the list should be able to accomodate >>emergencies such as this, i.e. problems with the potential to cause >>series hassle for impending gigs/projects/etc. God knows where I'd have >>been without y'all to provide some much-needed assistance. Given that >>we're all using fringe technology that's still in the embryonic stages of >>evolution, I think one of the advantages of a list such as this is to >>provide technical support. Cewrtainly. This is also a whole subject. In many cases, it is important for the others to know, what problems might ocurr. In others (like droping the unit) may be less. A different story is the energy you acumulate. Only the fact that 50 people suffer with you and want your problem to be fixed, in many cases physically fixes the problem. One day, I will post my serious problems so we can fix them all together. By the way... how is Michaels noise? Some might think that he produces only noise out there in Germany, but very wrong! He gave me two tapes of his loops and I think its very serious stuff - and without noise! >I agree with Andre....this can be a useful tool to help people out of a >difficult situation in a short amount of time. The tradeoff, of course, is >that in a public forum you will undoubtedly have people only glancing at >things. They see the initially outraged/paniced description of a problem, >but maybe miss the resolution. They then wind up with opinions that the >item in question may not totally deserve, or are out of proportion with the >real situation. Oh yes, thats another side. Although you say now, that there was no problem, in the subconscious of many members might have sticked that the Echoplex "creates problems", "is hard to fix" and that your "days with the Echoplex may be seriously numbered... " Not so bad. For me, the story is over. Matthias From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 00:28:17 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 14 17:29:08 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCxNa-0001kb-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 17:29:06 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 17:22:00 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Long and serious, but important In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"ivj0KC.A.3aB.AntYy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/537 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 17:29:06 -0700 X-UIDL: 3939abce6305956c34f9152a72e6a799 Matthias: > Hey, wait a minute! > Should apologise for a necessary feature I worked a lot for? > Even more since I managed to hide it so it only helps and never becomes notable? I don't think an apology is needed from you or anyone else behind the Echolplex for this particuolar feature. However, I think the fact that I mistook a limitation of this feature for the unit actually being broken suggests that it is, in fact, somewhat noticable. (I've gotten private e-mail from one or two people who have noticed this problem before, and they remarked that it had been a bit of a hindrance to them). > A different story is the energy you acumulate. Only the fact that 50 people > suffer with you and want your problem to be fixed, in many cases physically > fixes the problem. > One day, I will post my serious problems so we can fix them all together. I think there's a bit of a difference between my asking for Echoplex technical support on a looping digest, as opposed to expecting 50 people to vicariously "suffer with me" through my "serious personal problems." It's not like I posted a notice that my cat had died, or something. Similarly, the solution to my predicament came not in the form of my feeling good because a lot of other people were sharing my karmic strife (though that would probably bolster my authenticity as a quintissentially '90s musician), but rather as a result of many users pooling their own experience via this list to indicate that the ideosyncrasy was factory-standard and not a malfunction or mechanical problem. And now we get a bit serious: > >The tradeoff, of course, is > >that in a public forum you will undoubtedly have people only glancing at > >things. They see the initially outraged/paniced description of a problem, > >but maybe miss the resolution. They then wind up with opinions that the > >item in question may not totally deserve, or are out of proportion with the > >real situation. > > Oh yes, thats another side. Although you say now, that there was no > problem, in the subconscious of many members might have sticked that the > Echoplex "creates problems", "is hard to fix" and that your "days with > the Echoplex may be seriously numbered... " I think my incident over the weekend has managed to bring to light a somewhat problematic subject that's been generally understood but never really brought up outright. So let me try to put this as even-handedly and as fairly as I can: I am honestly of the opinion that the Echoplex is the best overall looper out there, bar none (and this includes custom jobbies like a modified Lexicon PCM-42). It can do things that no other loopers or processor can even come close to, as well as do things other processors *can* do, generally *better* than they can. However, there are undeniably some problems with the unit, as has been discussed on the digest many times. It's been well-documented that certain older models have a tendency to freak out when their memory is upgraded, due to an incorrect internal connection. There's at least one feature listed on the front panel and in the owner's manual (namely the LoopCopy function) which wasn't completed prior to the unit's being shipped and is inactive on all units. (No mention of this defunct feature, nor of the alternative operating methodology which makes this function a reality, is made anywhere on the product). There are a number of smaller, generally less severe bugs, many of which have been covered on this digest many times, and seemingly all of which are dealt with in the Holy Grail of looping technology, the legendary Software Upgrade. Then there's the issue of official support for the unit. I've heard about one person on this list who sent multiple units to Oberheim for repair regarding sync functions; Oberheim had the things for months, and didn't return his calls. I'm not even sure this individual has gotten them back yet. Another person reported on this list that he had sent a unit in to have the reverse mode pops ironed out; after a long (and rather uncommunicative) stay, the unit was sent back to him with the message that nothing was wrong. Coincidentally (?), both of these cases, as far as I know, dealt with units being shipped in by users who thought the devices were broken, when in fact the "problems" were simply part of the factory standard -- the same situation I found myself in over this past weekend. For my part, I phoned Oberheim's customer service number in November or December of last year and left a message with a question on the plex, and I never got a call back. In short, the unit as it currently stands does have some gremlins, albiet mostly of a fairly benevolent nature. Furthermore, Oberheim's track record with regards to treating its customers with respect and demonstrating intelligence for their products seems pretty suspect. Is it any wonder I was freaking out at the prospect of sending the thing in for repairs? I think anyone who's considering putting down anywhere from $400 to the nearly $900 list price on an Echoplex, or anyone who's already done so and has possibly spent considerable time grappling with some of the design flaws, has a right to know about *exactly* what they're getting into. If that includes a number of internal problems, or dubious support from the parent manufacturer, then they by all means deserve to know. Yes, I was panicked and highly critical of the unit when I made my first post in this thread. But think about this: Just a few days before that, I had seen *the first mention* of what seems sure to become Kim's perennial favorite subject, the overheating problem on older models. Now then, many people have talked about upgrading their Echoplexes to the full 198 second configuration since the beginning of the list. Until the last week or so, however, there wasn't *one single warning* from anyone associated with the unit on this list that doing this might have the slightly detrimental result of causing your controls to freeze up in the midst of performance! (This was the primary source of my comment referring to the Echoplex as "what appears to be an increasingly problematic unit.") There's a sticker on the circuit board of my unit indicating that it was shipping in May of 1995. This puts it outside of the 9-month "safety zone" that Kim referred to when he made mention of how recent a unit would likely have to be to be free of the overheating problem. Now, I've already upgraded two of my SIMMs to 4 meg. What if I'd done a full upgrade before the subject had happened to be mentioned on the list, as has happened to other users? (And while we're on the subject, *is* there any overheating danger with two 4-meg SIMMS?!) What I'm trying to say here is that if people read this digest and come away with a notion of the Echoplex as a somewhat problematic unit, there's a very good reason for that: it's true!!! As fine as the unit is, I don't think anyone who's been reading this digest or who's worked with the looper can honestly say that the thing doesn't have it's problems, at least one or two of them potentially disasterous. (And when was the last time anybody heard an update from Gibson on the release of the upgrade?) To be blunt, skirting around the very real issues of the unit's flaws and Oberheim's questionable support for it *is not* going to make all those Echoplexes suddenly fix themselves, nor is it likely to compell Gibson to launch a massive marketing and support campaign for its looper. However, discussing the unit's problems in an open, honest manner that acknowledges these facts has the potential to solve many of the problems that a lot of users have been dealing with -- as has frequently been the case on the list. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there's no telling where I'd be without the Internet-related help I've gotten for the unit -- and not just for the noise gate issue. What I recognize the Echoplex to be is a visionary and progressive piece of hardware, which also has some mechanical and professional hinderances which any user or potential buyer has a basic right to be aware of -- upfront, and in full. If someone tries to disprove me on the first part, I'll debate them to the end. If someone can disprove me on the second part, I'll be highly relieved (and more than a little disbelieving.) I'd say we should all be willing and able to acknowledge the strengths *and* weaknesses of whatever hardware is out there. I of course welcome any other opinions. Take care, --Andre P.S. And no, the above tirade isn't an excuse for dropping the damn thing. :-/ From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 00:28:20 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 14 17:56:21 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCxnw-0002tZ-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 17:56:20 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 17:49:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199610150049.RAA19802@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: memory notwithstanding Resent-Message-ID: <"Hp85GB.A.WpC.xDuYy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/538 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 17:56:20 -0700 X-UIDL: 49c4cfa18e3197c400870e4b34337947 ANDRE SAID (amongst other brutally honest and fine sentiments): There's a sticker on the circuit board of my unit indicating that it was shipping in May of 1995. This puts it outside of the 9-month "safety zone" that Kim referred to when he made mention of how recent a unit would likely have to be to be free of the overheating problem. Now, I've already upgraded two of my SIMMs to 4 meg. What if I'd done a full upgrade before the subject had happened to be mentioned on the list, as has happened to other users? (And while we're on the subject, *is* there any overheating danger with two 4-meg SIMMS?!) Dave @17 sez: In my last post about this, I related the sad story of my FIRST plex, (off the shelf, 12 seconds,) that exhibited the overheating problem pretty horribly. I then returned, got a second unit, which started at 12 secs went to 100 secs for 9 months just went to 198 a few weeks ago and has NEVER exhibited this problem (I FEAR GREATLY looking at said sticker) I pray that mine is not subject to this, but if it DOES ever happen...I have the ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC and MUCH MUCH MUCH appreciated DRAWING that MATTHIAS sent out. When that arrived, out of the blue, I was STUNNED and AMAZED. Matthias my friend: thank you! If my unit ever overheats, I can get in there now and clip the bad chip!!! I may do it anyway if and when the MYSTERIOUS UPGRADE comes along. What I'm getting at tis this tho: I don't think it has ANY relationship with the amount of MEMORY. It's just that pin should never have been connected... All I really want it [the upgrade] for is to absolve those very very occasional pops on reverse really..and: may I say, having 198 seconds (finally) makes a great enormous difference. I'm STILL trying to adjust to the idea. 100 was one thing. But now...I can have THREE one minute loops! I can MULTIPLY forever. I can UNDO like mad.... It's all starting to sink in now.... dave at seventeen 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * It takes eleven minutes to fill, * * and six minutes to empty... * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 00:28:21 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 14 18:21:22 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCyC9-00041e-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 18:21:21 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961015012345.006f7440@xenon.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@xenon.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 18:23:45 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Long and serious, but important Resent-Message-ID: <"7PCdzC.A.PpD.AZuYy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/539 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 18:21:21 -0700 X-UIDL: d5e5a0ae1b0ba8f569a170bf695dc6ba Andre- Your post deserves a much more thoughtful repy than what I have time for now, but I just wanted to correct another mythical rumor: >Now then, many people have talked about upgrading their Echoplexes to the >full 198 second configuration since the beginning of the list. Until the >last week or so, however, there wasn't *one single warning* from anyone >associated with the unit on this list that doing this might have the >slightly detrimental result of causing your controls to freeze up in the >midst of performance! (This was the primary source of my comment >referring to the Echoplex as "what appears to be an increasingly >problematic unit.") The reason no one ever stated anything like that is because it is not true. None of the possible memory configurations cause crashes or problems. This particular rumor sources to a fellow who posted a review on the Harmony central site, wherein he said that installing more memory caused the unit to behave erratically and crash. I talked with him and sorted out his problems, and it wasn't the memory that caused it. His problem was the same thermal problem that I will probably be explaining to people for the rest of my life. Once again: older units have a circuit error that caused the Undo switch to execute record when the unit was hot. New units do not have this problem. If you have an older unit, the modification to fix this is very simple. You can do it yourself, I'll be happy to explain it to you. The only reason installing more simms might cause this problem is if the simms you get draw a significantly larger amount of current than the simms it came with. This is **highly unlikely** because 4M simms are typically made from a more modern technology that consumes less power than the older 256k simms that are used in a stock 12sec echoplex. I measured current draw on a bunch of simms while I was at gibson, and found the worst by far to be an old set of 256k's. It definitely was not an exhaustive test, but it is telling. In any event, this is a very easy thing to fix. Also, this is an example of what I was saying before, about the problematic nature of public forums such as this. Rumors spread quickly, yet are nearly impossible to fully dispell. There are certainly more dramatic internet examples than our poor maligned echoplex.... more later...... wondering why I do this for free, kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 OEM Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 00:28:23 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 14 19:29:28 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vCzG2-0006ze-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 19:29:26 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 19:23:49 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Putting my money where my mouth is Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"nDYDjB.A.zZG.EZvYy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/540 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 19:29:26 -0700 X-UIDL: a748b1c09d3a0d4a88c69eb12f2a3542 Hello Kim (and others) -- The current thread has made me think that I might be able to offer some help. Since I probably have the luxury of a bit more spare time than you, I'd be happy to volunteer to compile the Echoplex help messages you've posted or sent to me over the last half-year or so into a FAQ. I'm still HTML illiterate, but it might make life easier in one way or another, so I'd be willing to piece together what information I have accumulated (there's quite a bit). If you've already started a FAQ, then I can try and cover what isn't there yet. Let me know if this would be of some use to you. And please don't think that I'm personally attacking you or Matthias with the current thread; I suspect that at least some of the blame for the gremlins lies with Oberheim moreso than with G-Wiz. I sincerely hope I haven't alienated the Echoplex originators on the list, but I do think that sooner or later some of the issues I mentioned would have had to come to light, rather than be alluded to as they have been up until now. But even with the bugs, I'd say we'd all be a lot worse off without the Echoplex being available in whatever form. Thanks again, --Andre From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 00:28:27 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 14 20:31:47 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vD0EL-0001ma-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 20:31:45 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:34:16 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: polyrhythm Resent-Message-ID: <"p19swB.A.gkB.zUwYy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/541 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 20:31:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 03080629b2daabfee4665c2af004907d Rob Martino phantasizes: >Is polyrhythmic looping something we might see soon on a future version >of the Echoplex or other device? The possibilities sound fascinating, >but I couldn't really afford multiple Echoplexi to do it (I'm still >on the verge of just buying my first one!) Fascinatin, I agree. So far we did not make any money with the "cheap" version. So how would we do the "deluxe" one and who would buy it if not even you? ;-) Matthias From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 00:28:28 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 14 20:32:59 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vD0FV-0001qT-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 20:32:57 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:34:22 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Observations from playing experience & Gripes w/Oberheim Customer Service Resent-Message-ID: <"D_RCkB.A.gpB.OWwYy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/542 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 20:32:57 -0700 X-UIDL: bf73a150a23961a9f2f477a2176e1aae >UNDO Can Kill The Loop >Has anyone else experienced this. You're happily creating a loop. 10-20 >minutes of layering, reversing and undoing. Life is good and the loop is >happening. Then, you press the UNDO button (on the footpedal of course) and >suddenly you're engulfed in silence. Somehow, invoking the UNDO function has >erased the loop. >I've since stopped using the UNDO function. I can't be performing infront of >people and have this type of thing happen. Never happened to me, and I use it a lot! (well, not the old soft version) Kim? Oh, yes, is that the bug with the ADC heating up and then Undo beeing read as Record? That would be easy. Just cut pin 5 of the ADC as indicated on the JPEG I posted some days ago. >2. Gripes w/Oberheim Customer Service ... >If I was really famous, maybe they would call back more promptly. Or maybe I >could buy a few 'plexes to have as back-up. As it is I'm just little old me, >trying to make living with a really cool tool from a very unresponsive >vendor. >I've since been told that Oberheim has a staff of three. Even when they were many and I sent an adress of a famous person (Nana Vasconcelos, Trilok Gurtu, Torquato Mariano) who had shown interest in looping, they did not call... >By the way, when I was first trying to buy the echoplex this summer no-one in >Boston had one and a few places thought they were out of business!!! Local >Gibson reps who tour the retail chains weren't aware of Oberheim products. > >It's a pitty that such neato engineering is being so under-marketed. Thanks. I forward that to them, if you do not mind. (I could cry) Matthias From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 00:28:30 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 14 22:03:27 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vD1f4-0005M0-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 22:03:26 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 22:01:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610150501.WAA28252@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <32629B71.36A6BBF9@ctron.com> Subject: Re: polyrhythm Resent-Message-ID: <"iTos_B.A.R9E.hrxYy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/543 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 22:03:26 -0700 X-UIDL: 3d3e1a624eac8a2eff6a14e5193915e7 >King Crimson "Discipline" sort of stuff. Record a phrase in 7/4, then >overdub a phrase in 4/4 or 3/4, so you get a continual shifting effect. >Like someone just mentioned, I guess the best solution for now is to >record each phrase until they converge. In the 7/4 and 4/4 case, I guess >that would be 28 beats, if I'm picturing this correctly. Yup, it's (remembering our junior high math) the LCM, or Least Common Multiple, of all the times. E.g., 6 against 4 repeats in 12, not in 24. Low, let's all write out our prime factor trees, and. . . ;-) From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 00:28:35 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 14 23:20:44 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vD2rr-0000eD-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 23:20:43 -0700 Date: 15 Oct 96 02:16:26 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Looks like it's cool... Message-ID: <961015061626_100041.247_JHB71-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"un9eJD.A.og.UzyYy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/544 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 23:20:43 -0700 X-UIDL: c9735a5873c7532a2c627d3727eb6bb2 Matthias asked: > By the way... how is Michaels noise? thanks for asking Matthias. Haven't done anything about it yet. I think it boils down to taking the whole setup apart and rewiring it, which will take at least a day. Most of what has to be rewired is integrated in a 2-m high metal rack which also holds my stereo, the old Revox (half of my own Peterstronics which I used for gigs in the early 1980s), records, the synth part of an old Minimoog, 4-trk recorder, ... it all looks quite good but doesn't sound good. > He gave me two tapes of his loops and I think its very serious stuff > - and without noise! If you listen closely, you'll hear it sometimes. -Michael Peters From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 00:28:34 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 14 23:20:25 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vD2rY-0000dA-00; Mon, 14 Oct 1996 23:20:24 -0700 Date: 15 Oct 96 02:16:29 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Long and serious, but important Message-ID: <961015061629_100041.247_JHB71-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"sfyMJ.A.wg.VzyYy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/545 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 23:20:24 -0700 X-UIDL: fb8cd3ea69cd77b410ab60e064e25b99 > His problem was the same thermal problem that I will probably be > explaining to people for the rest of my life. Once again: You could also put it on the website, along with Matthias' drawing. Maybe not on the front page but somewhere where people can look it up if really necessary so you don't have to explain it more than once. (later) Andre has volunteered to compile a 'help' FAQ - that would be the place for this stuff - and it should be on the web. -Michael From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 01:46:24 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 01:39:32 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vD529-0004a0-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:39:29 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 04:37:20 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961015043719_1279668771@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Compression Device & Placement Resent-Message-ID: <"UFanIC.A.UKE.810Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/548 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:39:29 -0700 X-UIDL: b90bc4aea65ce261ff0a89040ab08dd9 RE: Compression. I have a mono f/x & guitar rig. Using a stereo compressor, I've found adding two levels of compression to be quite interesting. What I do is add a first level of compression after any floor f/x and before any other rack-mounted units. I do this to smooth out drastic level jumps from combining varous floor pedals to avoid clipping distortion on rack-units. The second level of compression I add after all other racked f/x and before my Echoplex to help avoid overloading the sensitive input on the 'Plex. This second level of compression tends to thicken my general sound too. Sometimes this is nice. Other times it's not and I turn it off. Another useful feature of this set-up is I can set-up a ducking/noise gate arrangement surpressing accumlated hum and hiss while I'm "idling" (before any signal is gnerated). For what it's worth. David Kirkdorffer From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 01:46:25 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 01:39:42 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vD52J-0004bG-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:39:39 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 04:37:23 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961015043718_1246115107@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Echoplex heating up? Resent-Message-ID: <"XvtjrC.A.HLE.B20Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/549 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:39:39 -0700 X-UIDL: 81727a94077145d10ef2b1f18c5496e0 YES! Heating problems with my echoplex w/100secs of memory have been a problem. Kim, am I right to believe you may be aware of a fix or two for these pesky heating problems? Are they "postable" toa central location? David Kirkdorffer From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 01:46:27 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 01:39:52 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vD52U-0004ce-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:39:50 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 04:37:33 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961015043732_1480236832@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Echoplex/Jamman/Books/Etc. Resent-Message-ID: <"6D_0QB.A.HME.J20Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/550 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:39:50 -0700 X-UIDL: 164eef234f810d3cbf89b5aa4b51b5a3 In a message dated 96-10-10 08:09:27 EDT, you write: > > I'm pretty sure I saw 4meggers for $28 just a week ago. You can probably > bargain people down if you try. > > kim I feel like a fool. This summer I trundled on down to COMPUSA and bought approx 100 secs of mem. The guys behind the counter moaned about the number of pins I was asking for and that it would cost me (seems equal memory from less pins is cheaper.) I paid over $100 for two 4-megger chips. :-( David Kirkdorffer From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 01:46:31 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 01:40:26 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vD533-0004g6-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:40:25 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 04:37:35 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961015043733_1580900000@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Cool features & Does Oberheim read this list? Resent-Message-ID: <"wHnEfC.A.bME.L20Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/551 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:40:25 -0700 X-UIDL: d55b8cb3c8722265679bba030e72f602 In a message dated 96-10-10 08:09:32 EDT, you write: > You can have up to 9 loops in the echoplex. Their lengths can independent > of each other, which I don't think is true of the jamman. You can also copy > audio or the time base from one to another. You can switch to any loop you > like, rather than just cycling through them, and you can trigger them with > midi like a sampler. It works quite well for your idea of creating > compositions with different loops for each section, and switching between > them at will. > > kim I love the Echoplex for its depth in the software. There are some really great ideas built in. Does anyone know if anyone from Oberhiem is reading any of this? From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 01:46:28 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 01:40:07 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vD52i-0004eD-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:40:04 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 04:37:47 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961015043746_1413759137@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: The hidden parts & Rodger Miller Resent-Message-ID: <"Xebp0C.A.7NE.Y20Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/552 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:40:04 -0700 X-UIDL: bf81ea2586ab22a8d66aa788b360410e In a message dated 96-10-11 22:49:58 EDT, you write: > Subj: Re: The hidden parts > Date: 96-10-11 22:49:58 EDT > From: dstagner@icarus.net (Dave Stagner) > Resent-from: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Reply-to: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > > Speaking of hidden parts, here's a cute trick I picked up from Roger > Miller's "Maximum Electric Piano" work. In one piece, he builds up an > ever-denser wall of noise, until it's just washes of sound. Then he > "cut out" a piece of the noise, an empty gap a couple of seconds long. > This makes the noise sort of rhythmic. Then he starts playing a very > pretty piano part over it (not really in time to the loop), with this > wash of noise passing by in the background. I bumped into cool effect accidently early on w/my Ecoplex. Once you've had a good run with an existing loop and you're ready to go to something else, try this. Try turning the FEEDBACK knob down to zero and back and down in a rhythmic or random manner along the length of the loop cycle. Be sure to set the FEEDBACK knob at a desirable setting. Now expience your earlier loop with the volume fluctuations and holes. This has lead to a few great new melodies. David Kirkdorffer P.S. A buddy of mine is playing drums w/Rodger Miller. If you're a RM fan, be on the lookout for a new album recorded in a live setting w/improve sections built in. Being recorded soon! From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 01:46:30 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 01:40:23 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vD530-0004fp-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:40:22 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 04:37:51 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961015043748_1547344828@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: matthias@bahianet.com.br, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Fwd: hum cancelling Resent-Message-ID: <"enMcBC.A.8OE.f20Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/553 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:40:22 -0700 X-UIDL: e8b9c287527d4a7d016fa31dcd96ec14 In a message dated 96-10-13 18:26:24 EDT, Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com writes: > I think its so important to organize and offer this info. Then > we go on creating and just complete the info from time to time. Otherwhise > the list keeps repeating the same stuff forever, I see that in other lists. > > Matthias I think a weekly digest would do wonders to reduce the repetitive "looping" quality of the information we see herein. I suggest it will reduce overall traffic too. Thoughts?\ David Kirkdorffer --------------------- Forwarded message: From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Resent-from: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-to: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: 96-10-13 18:26:24 EDT Dear Michael Do not trust in another "cancelling" device. FIX the problem! >Guitar picks are not the problem, there is hum without guitars as well. I >guess I have to rewire everything ... Arn't guitar picks little plastic triangles.... making "'tack" not "hum"? >Hey, it's great to participate in a mailing list which is so responding! >Thanks again. mmmm - thats just the first eurphoric trance.... One day we will have to go back to work and leave the chat. But so far, I think its incredible how much information of all types we collected: Roots CDs Books Equipment Setups Vendors That's why I think its so important to organize and offer this info. Then we go on creating and just complete the info from time to time. Otherwhise the list keeps repeating the same stuff forever, I see that in other lists. Matthias From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 01:46:33 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 01:45:52 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vD58J-0004on-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:45:51 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:42:51 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: FAQ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"DOOxoC.A.ofE.X80Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/554 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:45:51 -0700 X-UIDL: cdb217648c28f46d9ca639322ff106df > >(later) Andre has volunteered to compile a 'help' FAQ - that would be the > >place for this stuff - and it should be on the web. > > I'm definitely planning to do this! Along with a few other hardware mods > for things like changing the gain structure and such. Believe it or not, > one of the main reasons I started the site was as a resource for echoplex > users and a place to document all the stuff I know about the thing. So far So shall I start compiling what I have, or shall I leave it to you? Do let me know. Best, --Andre From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 01:46:21 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 01:33:57 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vD4wm-0004KJ-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:33:56 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:31:19 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Long and serious, but important Resent-Message-ID: <"7pOLAB.A.6_D.9w0Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/546 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:33:56 -0700 X-UIDL: debcaa07b0d5cc939cb73bf6448c8d9f >> His problem was the same thermal problem that I will probably be >> explaining to people for the rest of my life. Once again: > >You could also put it on the website, along with Matthias' drawing. Maybe >not on the front page but somewhere where people can look it up if >really necessary so you don't have to explain it more than once. > >(later) Andre has volunteered to compile a 'help' FAQ - that would be the >place for this stuff - and it should be on the web. > >-Michael > I'm definitely planning to do this! Along with a few other hardware mods for things like changing the gain structure and such. Believe it or not, one of the main reasons I started the site was as a resource for echoplex users and a place to document all the stuff I know about the thing. So far I've only managed to put a little picture on the echoplex page! Somehow I keep getting distracted.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 01:46:22 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 01:34:11 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vD4x0-0004L2-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:34:10 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:31:22 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: History page on the Web!!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"WRXv0B.A.RAE.Ax0Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/547 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:34:10 -0700 X-UIDL: dbb122e46251ab37bb93337f554f2889 Michael Peters has created a fantastic new addition to our web site, a very well researched essay on the history of looping and looped music. It is called "The Birth of Loop" and it is an excellent read. So drop what you are doing, forget about that endless email backlog, and go immediately to: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/history/Loophist.html Michael has also given us the beginnings of a Loopography, to which I encourage you all to add your favorite loop-influences. It's at: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loopography/Records.html Thanks Michael! ps: In other good news, my sysadmin finally set up the digest version of the mailing list today. I have to configure it a bit, I'll let you know how to subscribe in a day or two. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 03:43:35 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 01:54:21 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vD5GW-00050i-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:54:20 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:51:52 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Cool features & Does Oberheim read this list? Resent-Message-ID: <"CFMBOB.A.yqE.PE1Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/555 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:54:20 -0700 X-UIDL: 467659c093fd5488d34629c728872c7b > >I love the Echoplex for its depth in the software. There are some really >great ideas built in. > >Does anyone know if anyone from Oberhiem is reading any of this? no, they don't. Of course, no one's bothered to tell them, and I'm not in any hurry..... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 03:43:41 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 02:55:36 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vD6Do-00066L-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 02:55:36 -0700 Date: 15 Oct 96 05:51:58 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Echoplex heating up? Message-ID: <961015095157_100041.247_JHB105-3@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"0iRXcD.A.osF.n91Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/558 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 02:55:36 -0700 X-UIDL: 10a28361596503023ef971db21ce29d0 David writes, > Heating problems with my echoplex w/100secs of memory have been a problem. Matthias: I still run the old Paradis Loop Delay (forefather of the Echoplex), with 31 seconds. Do you see a chance that I run into any problems when upgrading the Paradis Delay with 4Meg chips? -Michael From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 03:43:37 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 01:56:20 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vD5IR-00055H-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:56:19 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:53:48 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: FAQ Resent-Message-ID: <"OcUusC.A.JvE.DG1Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/556 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:56:19 -0700 X-UIDL: f75c33d157d6108ea514b53feb577635 >> >(later) Andre has volunteered to compile a 'help' FAQ - that would be the >> >place for this stuff - and it should be on the web. >> >> I'm definitely planning to do this! Along with a few other hardware mods >> for things like changing the gain structure and such. Believe it or not, >> one of the main reasons I started the site was as a resource for echoplex >> users and a place to document all the stuff I know about the thing. So far > >So shall I start compiling what I have, or shall I leave it to you? > >Do let me know. > >Best, > >--Andre Please go right ahead! I can add things to whatever you come up with. Anybody wanna teach Andre HTML? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 03:43:38 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 02:00:19 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vD5MI-0005BJ-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 02:00:18 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 01:57:53 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Echoplex heating up? Resent-Message-ID: <"Kvn-h.A.20E.5J1Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/557 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 02:00:18 -0700 X-UIDL: d52519556440ca40f184c75ab283bf95 >YES! Heating problems with my echoplex w/100secs of memory have been a >problem. > >Kim, am I right to believe you may be aware of a fix or two for these pesky >heating problems? Are they "postable" toa central location? > >David Kirkdorffer hmmmmm. yeah, I think I've heard of this problem...... ;-) Seriously, its been posted several times now, its probably in the list archives, and I will soon be making an entire page on the web site just for this! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 03:43:42 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 03:20:01 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vD6bP-0000U9-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 03:19:59 -0700 Date: 15 Oct 96 06:15:38 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: FAQ Message-ID: <961015101537_100041.247_JHB118-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"sDiJcD.A.5R.vT2Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/559 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 03:19:59 -0700 X-UIDL: c9ae7ffccddb10590612a930d258a83e >>So shall I start compiling what I have, or shall I leave it to you? >>--Andre > Please go right ahead! I can add things to whatever you come up with. > Anybody wanna teach Andre HTML? > kim well I don't know about *teach* (although the few html tags we need here are really simple) but I'd volunteer to turn an ascii text into html for the website, so, Andre, you can send me whatever you compile for the faq and I'll html it and forward it to Kim. -Michael From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 03:43:45 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 03:44:16 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vD6ys-00034q-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 03:44:14 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 06:41:33 -0400 From: "S. Patrick Hickey" Message-Id: <199610151041.GAA22690@nielsenmedia.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Putting my money where my mouth is Resent-Message-ID: <"2IR0LC.A._uC.jq2Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/561 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 03:44:14 -0700 X-UIDL: 7a6866bedfab234075e9cf98089b9d75 Kim, I do not own an Echoplex. I do own a JamMan. Given all the neat features I've learned from this list that the 'plex will do, I want one, and will get one as soon as I figure out how to raise the scratch (my wife is still complaining about the Vortex:). The 'plex "troubles" talked about here are, I'm certain, a combination of a new device and technological wizardry - the former takes a certain amount of ironing to get the kinks out, the latter can appear mysterious at times. I greatly appreciate the efforts that you and Matthias (and everyone else, too!, don't feel slighted!) put forth in starting/adding to/maintaining this list. I especially appreciate your good "bedside manner". [OK, no wise cracks!] I hope you find the energy to continue. Thanks, Pat Hickey ***SPH brzrkr@nielsenmedia.com From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 10:11:31 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 04:12:59 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vD7Qh-0005Zf-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 04:12:59 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 96 07:05:22 EDT From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) Message-Id: <9610151105.AA24900@ibx.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: History page on the Web!!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"ZT6hrC.A.pMF.UG3Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/563 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 04:12:59 -0700 X-UIDL: 5a130eb2eca88c59659fa5772c32d32d Hi! Could someone send me the text for "The Birth of the Loop" http://www.annihilist.com/loop/history/Loophist.html, and the beginnings of a Loopography http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loopography/Records.html. I am the annoying person with mail only access. victor, Philadelphia From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 03:43:43 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 03:35:41 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vD6qY-0002BE-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 03:35:38 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 03:32:35 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Putting my money where my mouth is Resent-Message-ID: <"C3MG2C.A.q6B.ui2Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/560 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 03:35:38 -0700 X-UIDL: a2b558b29b389d84b1f2134d9128cedd >Echoplex originators on the list, but I do think that sooner or later some >of the issues I mentioned would have had to come to light, rather than be >alluded to as they have been up until now. But even with the bugs, I'd >say we'd all be a lot worse off without the Echoplex being available in >whatever form. > >Thanks again, > >--Andre Well, I think a lot of the reason these issues are in the light is because I've been openly telling people about them for the past two years. Marketing people will go to great effort to explain to you that your problem doesn't exist, or was your fault, or whatever. I think that's a lot of crap. Users should be treated with respect and given whatever information there is about a product. When I was at Gibson, that's what I did. When users got through to me, I took time to work with them on their problem, making sure that it was solved. If it couldn't be solved, I at least tried to make sure they were generally happier about the situation. And when the net started getting more popular, I made an effort to look for people discussing it and responded to any problems they had. Problem is, I'm just one person with very limited time, and I can only reach so many people. So what seems to have happened, is my careful and often public explanations don't completely reach everyone who might care. They just get little bits of it; remembering little things here and there. And what seems to stick is "gee, people talk about problems with the echoplex a lot." This is really sad, and it makes me wonder if the marketing people are right. Maybe they are, but it doesn't really matter to me. What matters is that every single person using the echoplex enjoys it. (or the jamman, boomerang, 2290, or whatever else for that matter) The Echoplex is a great instrument. I own one, I use it all the time, and I like it a lot. That's what motivated me to put so much of myself into the project in the first place. Does the echoplex have flaws? Yes, a few. Its a NEW INSTRUMENT! Pianos and guitars weren't quite right two years after the first one was made either. The important thing, and what I think I'm really trying to say here, is that there are a great many things in the echoplex that work great and are not flawed! Days and weeks and months and years were spent discussing every function in there, usually to a ridiculously esoteric depth, just to make sure that it was musical and did what a musician would expect. And from the opposite side as well, discussing what a musician would want to do in a situation, and creating functions for that. This took a lot of time, a lot of trial and error, a lot of creative thinking, a lot of input from a wide range of musicians, and a lot of guts to put something this different out on the market. The result is the Echoplex, a powerful new musical tool with a whole lot of new functions that have never been possible or even thought of before. And you know what? The vast majority of them work very well. There are a lot of users out there making all sorts of different music with the echoplex, and enjoying it a lot. The few bugs that are there are mostly very esoteric, or easy to fix or work around. I wish they were not there, and some day I'm sure they won't be. But realistically, the few bugs that we do have only cause problems on very rare instances for a few users. Most people never have any troubles at all. So its very frustrating to me when I see people saying things like "I'm not going to get an Echoplex because it has too many bugs," or "I'm waiting for the upgrade to get one because there are so many problems." Its not that there is a lot of problems, its that there is a perception of problems. The perception exists because the problems are openly discussed, out of proportion with the good points. So what should I do? Keep talking about it I guess. Make a web site, start a mailing list, try to convince Oberheim to clean up their act, what I've been doing for a long time. Why do I do this? Damn if I know. Sure keeps me up late though... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 10:11:10 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 03:45:48 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vD70N-0003FD-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 03:45:47 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 03:42:53 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Back Issues Resent-Message-ID: <"oQrwhB.A.w7C.Ys2Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/562 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 03:45:47 -0700 X-UIDL: 454f582d9259ca9b639375d6ae1dfb35 >As a new subscriber, I am interested in a digest of old messages? Does anyone >maintain a folder of this information that can be emailed? >I forgot to mention that I have mail only access. So I cannot access the web >page for the digest. I am on SunOS. I might be able to set up a way for the archives to be automatically sent by email. If I can't though, how do you feel about receiving a really, really, really long email? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 10:11:53 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 09:11:43 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDC5k-0006s8-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:11:40 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:10:48 -0400 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: web site Resent-Message-ID: <"VMM_c.A.eSG.nc7Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/568 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:11:40 -0700 X-UIDL: 4d1c3318825fc11e42de4fbe72218989 Kim, When I click on a couple links (on the Loopers front web page), I just get a blank screen. Specifically, the links to Looping Practitioners and Tips and Tricks draws a blank. I am using Netscape 3.0. Any ideas what might be happening here? P.S. I enjoyed the history portion of the site: Eno's line: "all of my ambient music I should say, really was based on that kind of principle, on the idea that it's possible to think of a system or a set of rules which once set in motion will create music for you." ...strikes a chord with me. I like the idea of creating tools to create music...i don't think its cheating...I mean, where does the music come from anyways? --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 10:11:56 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 09:36:04 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDCTJ-0000Qs-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:36:01 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:29:48 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: delay tricks --> looping as a tool Resent-Message-ID: <"gUxsbC.A.IS.-z7Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/569 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 09:36:01 -0700 X-UIDL: dcb8665843e48c1bbc9a0b25e39b376e Kim wrote: > >In college I took a class in West African music performance. (Taught by >C.K. Ladzekpo at UC Berkeley) What is interesting is that he taught >polyrhythms in a similar way, using voice and clapping. It says something >about human nature that different cultures happened upon similar methods >for effective teaching, doesn't it? > >In order to pass the class, one thing we had to do was clap the basic >gonkugui (sp?) bell pattern, which is a four beat, three vs four >polyrhythmic pattern that underlies much of the traditional music from >Ghana. While clapping this, we had to count 2 bars each of every possible >eighth and triplet beat division of the 4 beat bar. So: whole notes, half >notes, half note triplets, quarter notes, triplet quarters, eighth notes, >triplet eighths, sixteenths, and sextuplets. It took me the whole semester >to be able to do this at all, and I still wasn't very good. > >I started that class thinking that I knew something about rhythm since I >had been playing music for a long time. I was humbled very quickly! In a >good way though. I learned that I knew almost nothing about rhythms, other >than the very basic structures in western music. It pushed me, and showed >me how important a rhythmic language is to expression in music. Gave me >just enough tools to get started learning more. Yes, I know how hard (seemingly simple) polyrhythms can be to internalize. Listening to them for extended periods is a great way to do this. I think the looping device can be a powerful tool in this area, although I haven't spent much time using it in this way. Often, I will get a loop going -- and leave it going for hours. I walk in and out of the room -- forget it then notice it again. I begin to internalize it after a while. And even though, at some point, I turn off the power -- everything's gone -- it still stays with me, and perhaps, affects my next loop. In this way, I feel the loppers help in the development of my performance (and composition). I feel that my weak points are my abilitity to sit down and compose, and lack of virtuosity in my technique. But I do know what sounds good to me. ANd if I hear something I like in a loop (no matter how subtle), I will learn from that. -- This ties into what you were saying about creating good-sounding loops accidently. I think a looper has chaos on his side -- he can turn an accident into something wonderful -- wheras if a traditional performer were performing his piece -- an accident would surely sound out of place! Perhaps I am only justifying my lack of musicianship, but hey -- an artist creates his own standards! --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 10:11:36 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 06:55:03 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vD9xW-0001Bk-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 06:55:02 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 14:32:27 +0100 Message-ID: <26397500.1424@mail.bl.uk> From: David.Orton@mail.bl.uk (David Orton) Subject: The Bells, the bells... To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Resent-Message-ID: <"l-IwuC.A.1DB.fd5Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/564 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 06:55:02 -0700 X-UIDL: 28248903e2df309b2550d1301050b8a4 Apologies if this has been dealt-with previously, but in terms of early-day loopers, have you considered the case of (church) bell ringing? I was visiting friends in the north-west of England at the weekend, and was struck by the possible synergy of bell ringing/looping as I passed a bridal party outside the main church in Macclesfield, where the local campanologists(sp?) were `giving it loads'. A bit ramshakle (in a pleasing way) to my ears (as phrases moved around in time seeming to stretch and contract smoewhat randomly), I had a quick search on the Web and found the following page: http://www.spec.gmu.edu/~msorell/bells.html which gives some info on how the peals are constructed. I'll not copy it here in case this is too far from what everyone's interested in (plus good old copyright concerns), but it might well be worth a visit to those interested in the polyrhytmn/in-&-out of sync debate. PS there was also a man playing bagpipes down the road from the church, but I'm not prepared to get into that right now - love those drones, though... David david.orton@bl.uk `Those Orton Leaves': http://subnet.virtual-pc.com/~or387751/ From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 10:11:38 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 07:14:40 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDAGV-0001mK-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 07:14:39 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 96 09:52:43 EDT From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) Message-Id: <9610151352.AA26736@ibx.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Tape Submissions Resent-Message-ID: <"SnjU6D.A.ymB.tv5Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/565 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 07:14:39 -0700 X-UIDL: d69cc5adb33af2adb0313fbccb8d844e I am publishing the first issue of a poetry and music review magazine in Philadelphia. I would like to solicit tape/CD/press kit submissions for consideration. Trey Gunn has agreed to interview for this first issue, and I would like contributions from other highly talented individuals and groups. I have a soft spot for touchboard instrumentalists and looping enthusiasts, so anything along these lines would be given the highest listening priority. Victor Fiorillo c/o COM 1914 Spruce Street Philadelphia, PA 19103 Please inform me via email if you send any media. From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 10:11:47 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 08:16:48 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDBEc-00045B-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:16:46 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 96 10:58:45 EDT From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) Message-Id: <9610151458.AA27431@ibx.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, stickwire-l@netcom.com Subject: Submission Deadline Resent-Message-ID: <"sILY8.A.ksD.Wo6Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/566 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:16:46 -0700 X-UIDL: 41b658d29a918d7b2517e3ce1d95df68 In case anyone has any questions about the deadline, this is an open ended request. The deadline for the first issue is November 15th. Thanks, Victor Fiorillo From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 10:11:50 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 08:19:49 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDBHX-0004EO-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:19:47 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9610151117.ZM74897@marcus.its.rpi.edu> Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:17:22 -0400 In-Reply-To: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) "Re: Observations from playing experience & Gripes w/Oberheim Customer Service" (Oct 14, 11:52am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 07feb95) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Observations from playing experience & Gripes w/Oberheim Customer Service Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"RKR2jD.A.t3D.fs6Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/567 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 08:19:47 -0700 X-UIDL: a1d038def755c853bfdb2649de28a199 greetings loop-ah-tologists, rumour has it that roland has a new looping box... mixed in with their COSM technology heard any ting, mon? collier From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 21:47:28 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 10:55:49 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDDiW-000530-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:55:48 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 13:52:21 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961015135221_1380238470@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, altruist@shoko.calarts.edu Subject: Re: Long and serious, but important Resent-Message-ID: <"DU3I1B.A.9lE.Z-8Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/575 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:55:48 -0700 X-UIDL: 86a1cc869b4b4fa79e2b1e3e165436d2 I wholeheartedly agree with the points Andre makes. Given the FACT customer service for the Echoplex (& maybe Jamman?) is virtually non-existant, this e-mail list is like a lifeline to real knowledge and understanding of the hardware many of us have bought. If we don't mention the problems we're having, we won't benefit from eacother's experiences -- or fixes. The opportunity for many here to learn is is great. RE: the Echoplex -- I've already learned more in the last few weeks on this list than in any conversations I've had with Oberheim ;-) David Kirkdorffer P.S. Does anyone have an e-mail address for Oberheim? (NOT Gibson). I've done software marketing professionally in my days. And I'm currently unemployed.... I'd call, but, well -- need I say more...? From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 21:47:23 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 10:23:11 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDDCw-0003FP-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:23:10 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:18:36 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: web site Resent-Message-ID: <"RIM3_B.A.M2C.ef8Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/573 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:23:10 -0700 X-UIDL: 73371b717b76840fb0e1fb4bdb257cf4 >Kim, > >When I click on a couple links (on the Loopers front web page), I just get >a blank screen. Specifically, the links to Looping Practitioners and Tips >and Tricks draws a blank. I am using Netscape 3.0. Any ideas what might >be happening here? > There's nothing on those pages. Contributions are quite welcome! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 21:47:21 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 10:21:23 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDDB8-00036u-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:21:18 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 15:22:34 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Compression Device & Placement Resent-Message-ID: <"lFNNZC.A.eoC.Nd8Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/570 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:21:18 -0700 X-UIDL: 63f9b46fcc58f3d76de534fef7b400db David Kirkdorffer : >I have a mono f/x & guitar rig. Using a stereo compressor, I've found adding >two levels of compression to be quite interesting. > >What I do is add a first level of compression after any floor f/x and before >any other rack-mounted units. I do this to smooth out drastic level jumps >from combining varous floor pedals to avoid clipping distortion on >rack-units. The most interesting place for me is to limit before distortion so the +Gain+ in the distortion cirquit is an acurate control over the overtones created. >The second level of compression I add after all other racked f/x and before >my Echoplex to help avoid overloading the sensitive input on the 'Plex. This >second level of compression tends to thicken my general sound too. Did you try to use the Plex' internal compressor for this? Its just a simple limiter, simple to access by simply overloading the input... Matthias From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 21:47:19 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 10:21:22 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDDB7-00036p-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:21:17 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 15:22:52 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Echoplex heating up? Resent-Message-ID: <"UHq6jD.A.fsC.5d8Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/571 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:21:17 -0700 X-UIDL: 84a772fc431b6538e47b5f25aebeab0d >David writes, > >> Heating problems with my echoplex w/100secs of memory have been a problem. > >Matthias: I still run the old Paradis Loop Delay (forefather of the >Echoplex), with 31 seconds. Do you see a chance that I run into any problems >when upgrading the Paradis Delay with 4Meg chips? Go ahead, son! I can guarantee for looooong looooops By the way... do you have contact with more of the LOOP delay users? We should inform at least the ones that are on the net about the list! Matthias From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 21:47:22 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 10:22:22 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDDC8-0003CB-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:22:20 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 15:24:00 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: heating down Resent-Message-ID: <"02gwHC.A.3xC.ye8Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/572 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:22:20 -0700 X-UIDL: 3b81f6d977c57c4ed0780364053ad49b >So far >I've only managed to put a little picture on the echoplex page! Somehow I >keep getting distracted.... Its the heating up. Dont heat up. Heat down (cool up?) You do not know about the Brasilian musicians traditions to worry about heating up. Its fun. Anything warmer than 50C (the air is up to 40C) gets a circulator. Well, some machines might not have resisted the tropic temparature, but I keep informing people that semi conductors work fine up to 110C... I also feel distracted. No time to fix bugs... :-) Matthias From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 21:47:26 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 10:27:57 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDDHY-0003Y6-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:27:56 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 15:26:27 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: memory notwithstanding Resent-Message-ID: <"-QkX9D.A.nOD.tk8Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/574 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:27:56 -0700 X-UIDL: c531815d552042793a899f07d1a3239f Dave cried out: >Matthias my friend: thank you! If my unit ever overheats, I can get in >there now and clip the bad chip!!! Oh you are so nice... Kim had found the bug!! I did the drawing to send to the european representatives 9 months ago. It took me about 0.005% of the whole development time to do it. >I may do it anyway if and when the MYSTERIOUS UPGRADE comes along. Good idea >What I'm getting at tis this tho: I don't think it has ANY relationship with >the amount of MEMORY. It's just that pin should never have been connected... The problem *is* the pin, but more memory may heat more and thus may *show* the problem. >It's all starting to sink in now.... What? Sync in? Mhat From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 21:47:29 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 11:33:35 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDEJ2-0006z4-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:33:32 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:29:08 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: FAQ In-Reply-To: <961015101537_100041.247_JHB118-1@CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"BavsrD.A.obG.Ii9Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/576 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:33:32 -0700 X-UIDL: f044b81b376e950599ebda7e72796fac > well I don't know about *teach* (although the few html tags we need here are > really simple) but I'd volunteer to turn an ascii text into html for the > website, so, Andre, you can send me whatever you compile for the faq and > I'll html it and forward it to Kim. Very cool. Thanks for the assist. Give me a few days at least... --Andre From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 21:47:31 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 11:50:12 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDEZ9-0007hO-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:50:11 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:45:49 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Sorting it all out Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"htv5o.A.CJH.ux9Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/577 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:50:11 -0700 X-UIDL: b7a108b8769134252088945cf7059913 Well... If nothing else, it seems clear to me that Kim and Matthias have, by virtue of making themselves available online, set themselves up as point men for the Echoplex problems and for Oberheim's lack of self-organization. Not an enviable task, and from what I can tell, not the one that they should have to be doing. (No doubt a book could be written about the hassles engendered through working with Oberheim on the project -- I don't imagine they treated G-Wiz with oodles more respect than they treat their customers). It's true that about 90-95% of the quirks in the Plex are essentially harmless, and that the more problematic ones can generally be straightened out. The frustrating thing for me is that without these bugs, the Plex would be untouchable as far as looping goes. (Admittedly, I would have preferred to have found out about the heating problems at some point previous to the last seven days, but at least we all know more about it now than anyone shouild ever have to...) At any rate, I hope the thread has managed to do more than merely step on some already frayed nerves (which was never a desirable intent in the first place). The list in general, and our ex-G-Wiz men in particular, have through their presence definitely provided a very valuable and unsolicited resource in getting the most out of the Plex. Hopefully from this point on they won't have to bear the entirety of the burden. I'll compile what FAQ material I have soon and send it off to Michael. Loop on, --Andre From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 21:47:32 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 11:53:41 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDEcT-00007z-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:53:37 -0700 Date: 15 Oct 96 14:48:37 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Putting my money where my mouth is Message-ID: <961015184836_100041.247_JHB144-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"O53DKB.A.mRH.e09Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/578 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:53:37 -0700 X-UIDL: ba562bcbeaef4b8834cf219c23e4e370 Kim sez: > Why do I do this? Damn if I know. Sure keeps me up late though... You can be sure that we all appreciate your effort! Also, setting up the website and setting the list on track are of course additional efforts, but as soon as the site is complete (including an faq which contains answers to most common questions), I'm sure it will take most of the workload you complain about off your shoulders. -Michael From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 21:47:33 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 11:55:08 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDEdu-0000Fm-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:55:06 -0700 Date: 15 Oct 96 14:48:43 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: web site Message-ID: <961015184843_100041.247_JHB144-3@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"dS2ScB.A.wRH.f09Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/579 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:55:06 -0700 X-UIDL: c5c530b5f4c09dafe5f4aed4c527a2b4 Chris, > Eno's line ..... strikes a chord with me. I highly recommend visiting the Eno website (there is a link on the history page) and read all the articles, and also his new book 'A Year with Swollen Appendices' which is basically a diary but contains lots of articles as well. Reading Eno's thoughts strikes chords in me all the time. -Michael From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 21:47:35 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 11:56:57 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDEfe-0000Oo-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:56:54 -0700 Date: 15 Oct 96 14:48:47 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: The Bells, the bells... Message-ID: <961015184846_100041.247_JHB144-4@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"Z9cupD.A.aK.U39Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/580 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:56:54 -0700 X-UIDL: c6b2a62a2ace7cc80a36d39032486709 David, > in terms of early-day loopers, have you considered the case of (church) > bell ringing? No, not yet, but an interesting observation. > was struck by the possible synergy of bell ringing/looping You might be interested to know that one of the less known Minimalists, Charlemagne Palestine, has started out as a pianist as well as a carillon player. Here's a passage from the liner notes to his (very minimalist, but beautiful) CD "Four Manifestations on Six Elements": "At 16 Palestine was playing the carillon of the Episcopal Church next the the Museum of Modern Art in NYC. The carillon is a physically challenging instrument involving church bells being played by hitting the keys with the fists. At first he played the carillon compositions of people like Cage and Messiaen. Later he began to compose and invent a music that was based on the physical sound qualities of bells." Starting out from this, Palestine developed a piano playing technique which he called 'strumming'. If you're interested in just intonation, 'pure' sounds, and powerful, yet very minimal music, get his CD. -Michael From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 21:47:36 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 11:57:03 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDEfl-0000PU-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:57:01 -0700 Date: 15 Oct 96 14:48:50 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: History page on the Web!!!! Message-ID: <961015184850_100041.247_JHB144-5@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"LS1v1.A.JL.c39Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/581 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 11:57:01 -0700 X-UIDL: 4b9d196f023027b7664a5fd35e6c02f3 hi Victor, > I am the annoying person with mail only access! poor Victor. You're missing a lot. > Could someone send me the text for "The Birth of the Loop" > and the beginnings of a Loopography I can send you the HTML files. Do you have a web browser to read them? (You can also read HTML files in a simple text viewer but they look a little funny and are difficult to read with all the

tags in there.) Also, can your email program take attachments? -Michael From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 21:47:38 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 12:21:12 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDF38-0001fe-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 12:21:10 -0700 Date: 15 Oct 96 15:15:37 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Echoplex heating up? Message-ID: <961015191536_100041.247_JHB112-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"zhI_ZC.A.9ZB.fN-Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/582 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 12:21:10 -0700 X-UIDL: 7615fb77f7c1050aa6bafbf1755ee886 Matthias, > do you have contact with more of the LOOP delay users? > We should inform at least the ones that are on the net about the list! two friends of mine here in Cologne have a Paradis looper: Leander Reininghaus and Matthias Becker. Leander is not (yet) online but knows about the list. Matthias is online and I've sent him info a while ago. (Guess he's too busy at the moment for such things.) -Michael From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 21:47:49 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 15:28:34 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDHyR-0003aA-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 15:28:31 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 15:27:29 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: tools to create music Resent-Message-ID: <"FGo4IB.A.SPD.g-AZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/584 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 15:28:31 -0700 X-UIDL: 05729cae00858da5a97068064095d4fe >So that very day (complete incredible acident, considering some more facts >that led to the meeting) he had a demonstration for the Sri Aurobindo group >and showed his "improvising instrument" >It consists of a set of tuned tubes hangin around a hammer, that hangs on a >semi stiff plastic that is driven by a motor. So the hammer slowly comes in >motion and the motions becomes aleatoric, playing a melody on the tubes >around the hammer. I still can't imagine what this looks or sounds like.....sounds fascinating though! > >The thing was: We were laying on the floor around the instrument and >listende to it for half an hour. I could never note any patern repeating >but nevertheless started to feel the notes before they were coming! >You probably know that feeling when you improvise with someone and you know >him and you predict where the melody is going, and you think that you can >predict it because you understood the guys musical thinking. >But how is this possible with a machine? How does it really happen between >people? This experience confirmed my improvisation seek: > >IMPROVISATION is a way to learn to get to the state where you can PREDICT >or READ in the world documentation. I like your line of thinking...what do you mean by "world documentation". The word PREDICT seems limiting to me, because it implies analysis. I like to think that in the improvisational state, one merely FLOWS with what is happening -- more synthesis than analysis. After all, there's always chaos, which prevents true predictability! >Have a look at http://www.gilbertogil.com.br/taktak_0.htm I tried this URL, but it said "URL not found".... --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 21:47:47 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 13:05:13 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDFjk-0003zp-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 13:05:12 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 18:07:18 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: tools to create music Resent-Message-ID: <"uabvq.A.boD.N4-Yy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/583 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 13:05:12 -0700 X-UIDL: a7a777b0132a987e752b8e9d8072949c Chris Chovit: >...strikes a chord with me. I like the idea of creating tools to create >music...i don't think its cheating...I mean, where does the music come from >anyways? Very interesting! I had a brilliant day with maybe the most creative instrument builders of the world, Marco Antonio Guimaraes of the group UAKTI. He creates all himself with wood, glass, plastic tubes... So that very day (complete incredible acident, considering some more facts that led to the meeting) he had a demonstration for the Sri Aurobindo group and showed his "improvising instrument" It consists of a set of tuned tubes hangin around a hammer, that hangs on a semi stiff plastic that is driven by a motor. So the hammer slowly comes in motion and the motions becomes aleatoric, playing a melody on the tubes around the hammer. The thing was: We were laying on the floor around the instrument and listende to it for half an hour. I could never note any patern repeating but nevertheless started to feel the notes before they were coming! You probably know that feeling when you improvise with someone and you know him and you predict where the melody is going, and you think that you can predict it because you understood the guys musical thinking. But how is this possible with a machine? How does it really happen between people? This experience confirmed my improvisation seek: IMPROVISATION is a way to learn to get to the state where you can PREDICT or READ in the world documentation. The loop definitally fascilitates this. Matthias PS: Marco Antonios teacher actually was a swiss that lived and died 10 years ago in Salvador: Smetak. He was much crazyer, looking for microtuning and "decomposition". He wrote 35 mystical books that noone really understands (also due to his swiss portugese). But the popular creators like Caetano Veloso and Gilberto Gil loved him. Seams he was a great person. I have seen his instruments and was impressed by the creativity. Less so for the sound quality. Marco Antonio is more practical in this. Have a look at http://www.gilbertogil.com.br/taktak_0.htm From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 21:47:51 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 15:34:50 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDI4X-0003xT-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 15:34:49 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 17:33:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner X-Sender: dstagner@icarus.icarus.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: tools to create music In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"MOafT.A.joD.8EBZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/585 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 15:34:49 -0700 X-UIDL: 80914c53e081c1e3397d11a88c2f78c4 On Tue, 15 Oct 1996, Chris Chovit wrote: > >Have a look at http://www.gilbertogil.com.br/taktak_0.htm > > I tried this URL, but it said "URL not found".... Try http://www.gilbertogil.com.br/ by itself. That takes you to a page to select Portugese, Spanish, or English. Looks like a fun site. Maybe when I have more time I'll peruse it properly. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. -Charles Fort dstagner@icarus.net From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 21:47:57 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 17:23:13 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDJlQ-0002CK-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 17:23:12 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 17:15:31 -0700 Message-Id: <199610160015.RAA28348@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: Re: History page on the Web!!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"5q9JwC.A.z6B.jpCZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/586 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 17:23:12 -0700 X-UIDL: c43468ab65e12f448958fce4a5f1fab2 > >ps: In other good news, my sysadmin finally set up the digest version of >the mailing list today. I have to configure it a bit, I'll let you know how >to subscribe in a day or two. > >kim just in time- had 50 messages after one day away, just about becoming IMPOSSIBLE to deal with 'em! I'll be your FIRST subscriber!!!!!!! :) ;) thanks! dave @ 17 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * It takes eleven minutes to fill, * * and six minutes to empty... * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 21:47:58 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 17:44:47 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDK6H-0003RF-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 17:44:45 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9610152041.ZM11329@wolf3.vlsc.rpi.edu> Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 20:41:36 -0400 In-Reply-To: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) "History page on the Web!!!!" (Oct 15, 1:34am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: History page on the Web!!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"yqMRk.A.3CD.k9CZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/587 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 17:44:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 6bee6ae149f8cb27357bfa2fea6b7c07 hi kimst, from the sgi(unix) netscape platform... I can't read a few of the topics. I get a blank page and document done. collier From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 21:48:02 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 18:41:13 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDKyt-00069s-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 18:41:11 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9610152139.ZM11425@wolf3.vlsc.rpi.edu> Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 21:39:22 -0400 In-Reply-To: studio seventeen productions "Re: History page on the Web!!!!" (Oct 15, 5:25pm) References: <199610160015.RAA28348@barley.adnc.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: building electron gadgets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"GLjJ_.A.UtF.7zDZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/588 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 18:41:11 -0700 X-UIDL: 261f157993c477d6ad8a2f7efed133f4 kim, i'll be the second for the digest thanksum! hey, anyone know the how's whereand whyfore of building effects devices? I'm interested in getting started in more complex gimmickry From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 21:48:04 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 18:52:15 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDL9a-0006fX-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 18:52:14 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9610152150.ZM11449@wolf3.vlsc.rpi.edu> Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 21:50:38 -0400 In-Reply-To: ejmd@erols.com (Ed Drake) "Re: Echoplex/Jamman/Books/Etc." (Oct 9, 10:27pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: sustainor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"kDBhHC.A.gMG.E-DZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/589 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 18:52:14 -0700 X-UIDL: 7552a5243d9647513a533dbeba9a19f1 back a copla threads... anyone know about a kramer sustainor guitar? looks like it has the equivalent of two humbuckers, three pots and three switches, two of which are DPDT and one single. what's it worth, howzit work. is it the same as the fernandez... thanks, collier From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 21:48:06 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 19:09:18 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDLQ5-0007ao-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 19:09:17 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 22:11:58 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: JamMan Resent-Message-ID: <"mYkudB.A.vDH.HOEZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/590 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 19:09:17 -0700 X-UIDL: 2fb67ed3d3ff27353faa75ea0724ef36 There has been much talk of the Echoplex on this line. But what about us JamMan owners. I hve one and have loved it so far even given its limitations. I am wondering if anyone has knowledge of software updates for the Jamman or any other updates planned. And what of uses, usual or unusal for it. From ???@??? Tue Oct 15 21:48:07 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 20:53:15 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDN2g-0004ZK-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 20:53:14 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 20:46:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199610160346.UAA00081@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: Re: Looks like it's cool... Resent-Message-ID: <"bPGBh.A.yME.kvFZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/591 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 20:53:14 -0700 X-UIDL: 52743ee228aecce526b4bf02dc9ebe78 >>Nonetheless, I *do* think that the list should be able to accomodate >>emergencies such as this, i.e. problems with the potential to cause >>series hassle for impending gigs/projects/etc. God knows where I'd have >>been without y'all to provide some much-needed assistance. Given that >>we're all using fringe technology that's still in the embryonic stages of >>evolution, I think one of the advantages of a list such as this is to >>provide technical support. >> > >I agree with Andre....this can be a useful tool to help people out of a >difficult situation in a short amount of time. The tradeoff, of course, is >that in a public forum you will undoubtedly have people only glancing at >things. They see the initially outraged/paniced description of a problem, >but maybe miss the resolution. They then wind up with opinions that the >item in question may not totally deserve, or are out of proportion with the >real situation. > >kim > kim - couldn't agree with you MORE here. it's easy to get a wrong impression about a box, and I very nearly decided not to buy the Oberheim since Unit #1 clearly didn't work...but the second unit is great, and the advantages, features and sheer flexibility totally outweigh the minor problems. Now I'm *GLAD* I stuck with it, months later, it's really the heart of my whole system (wish I could afford two... :) and i find it difficult to go back to my old RDS-8000...with eight seconds and see-if-you-can-hit-the-switch-just-right style looping (I got pretty good at it after a few years, but always needed a BIG reverb to hide the odd time bumps...) it still works, but it's pretty limited. thanks again! dave at 17 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * It takes eleven minutes to fill, * * and six minutes to empty... * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Wed Oct 16 09:15:14 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 15 22:48:20 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDOq3-0001z7-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 22:48:19 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 00:47:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner X-Sender: dstagner@icarus.icarus.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: building electron gadgets In-Reply-To: <9610152139.ZM11425@wolf3.vlsc.rpi.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"G69M6D.A.B0B.4bHZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/592 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 22:48:19 -0700 X-UIDL: b88328c4a467cdba1cb5191a72b9737e Craig Anderton's "Electronic Projects for Musicians" and other books are a great place to start with effects building. You can get his books, and numerous excellent kits by Anderton and others, from PAiA Electronics. They have a very nice online catalog at www.paia.com. Starting with kits will teach you enough to build stuff of your own design later. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. -Charles Fort dstagner@icarus.net From ???@??? Wed Oct 16 09:15:20 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 16 00:37:15 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDQXS-0005Yz-00; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 00:37:14 -0700 Date: 16 Oct 96 03:33:27 EDT From: Teed Rockwell <74164.3703@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Looks like it's cool... Message-ID: <961016073326_74164.3703_GHQ74-3@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"idUNM.A.xJF.nBJZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/594 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 00:37:14 -0700 X-UIDL: bac296aae5d104489938a9fe8db63eaf Thanks, Andre, for walking us through your little drama. It interested me more than almost anything else I've read on the list, because it probably saved me from going through the same thing later Teed Rockwell From ???@??? Wed Oct 16 09:15:21 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 16 00:37:20 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDQXX-0005ZG-00; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 00:37:19 -0700 Date: 16 Oct 96 03:33:33 EDT From: Teed Rockwell <74164.3703@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Polyrhythm book Message-ID: <961016073333_74164.3703_GHQ74-4@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"HGtAZB.A.WJF.kBJZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/593 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 00:37:19 -0700 X-UIDL: 58ae8b1a7f268d98622e9a09329e4297 The best book I've seen on Cross Rhythms is "Ancient traditions, Future Possibilities, by Mathew Montfort. I used some Indian exercises from that book in the Stick Seminar I taught in at Vancouver, and it continues to be my best written source of information on Rhythms. (my best non-written source is Ali Akbar Khan himself). the book also has great stuff on African and Balinese Rhythms. You can order it from Montfort himself by sending $25 plus $2.50 shipping to Box 264 Kentfield, CA 94914. You can also Visit his Website at http://www.Ancient-Future.com Teed Rockwell From ???@??? Wed Oct 16 09:15:25 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 16 02:03:21 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDRsm-0007gH-00; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 02:03:20 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:01:45 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Observations from playing experience & Gripes w/Oberheim Customer Service In-Reply-To: <9610151117.ZM74897@marcus.its.rpi.edu> Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"klfjJB.A.fKH.-RKZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/595 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 02:03:20 -0700 X-UIDL: ed4a3a781b5e235676c888e610f87f02 On Tue, 15 Oct 1996, Louis Collier Hyams wrote: > greetings loop-ah-tologists, > > rumour has it that roland has a new looping box... mixed in with their COSM > technology > > heard any ting, mon? > > collier > > I heard moises about this too, but I was not convinced...... Olivier From ???@??? Wed Oct 16 09:15:37 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 16 05:20:54 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDUxx-0002Yv-00; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 05:20:53 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 14:19:42 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: tools to create music In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"HXDKO.A.QXC.2LNZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/596 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 05:20:53 -0700 X-UIDL: 4c0d70dc263bcd597b5fd518442fa86b What does it come from? How is it you can be "synced" with a machine? I wonder if this old theory of R. Fripp about music (which happend to be quite close to mine) would not at least give hints of an answer. You know, music being an entity seeking to be heard, and playing the human instrument. The fact that someone human built thgis machine... Besides, that's true, we all (I hope) know thiese moments of intimacy with an other musician where you can guess what the other(s) is (are) going to do before they know it. Maybe that's just Music taking part in the process, and whole become bigger than the sum of the parts. Olivier From ???@??? Wed Oct 16 09:15:39 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 16 05:24:24 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDV1L-0002er-00; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 05:24:23 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 14:23:05 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: sustainor In-Reply-To: <9610152150.ZM11449@wolf3.vlsc.rpi.edu> Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"u_EprD.A.PdC._ONZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/597 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 05:24:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 4556c84ccdac58a2447473a64d208ec7 It was designed by Floyd Rose (yes, this tremolo guy again). It was on the market before The Sustainiac came, and th eFernandes. For all I know it is basically the same thing than the Fernandes, except that the later seems to be more accurate. I did not check this personnally. Olivier M From ???@??? Wed Oct 16 09:15:40 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 16 08:00:46 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDXSf-0000lp-00; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 08:00:45 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 10:58:08 -0400 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961016105806_212431939@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: sustainor Resent-Message-ID: <"yaLnBC.A.cm.-gPZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/598 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 08:00:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 51d8e2b96cddc1e3bf5859880fc7f4fa Just a Note: Oliver writes-- > It was on the market before The Sustainiac came... Well not quite, I had a Sustainiacx for at least a year before the Floyd Rose Sustainor device ever appeared (publically) on the scene. I was keenly interested in the FR device for a while when it first came out because it seemed it would help with reducing the multitude of stomp boxes sprouting up (then) at my feet by at least one. But the fascination eventually passed. I still use the original Sustainiac because I can use it on all of my instruments (not just one speciallt modified instrument). From ???@??? Wed Oct 16 09:15:42 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 16 08:24:15 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDXpJ-0002Lg-00; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 08:24:09 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 17:21:01 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: sustainor In-Reply-To: <961016105806_212431939@emout08.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"SGfT1.A.rEC.o2PZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/599 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 08:24:09 -0700 X-UIDL: 6a535e95148fb06e66c451ba881be084 On Wed, 16 Oct 1996 KILLINFO@aol.com wrote: > Just a Note: > > Oliver writes-- > > > It was on the market before The Sustainiac came... > > Well not quite, I had a Sustainiacx for at least a year before the Floyd Rose > Sustainor device ever appeared (publically) on the scene. I was keenly > interested in the FR device for a while when it first came out because it > seemed it would help with reducing the multitude of stomp boxes sprouting up > (then) at my feet by at least one. But the fascination eventually passed. I > still use the original Sustainiac because I can use it on all of my > instruments (not just one speciallt modified instrument). > > Well obviously, I should have thought twice before speaking... By the way anyway knows if these sutainiac device is still on the market??? Olivier From ???@??? Wed Oct 16 23:25:24 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 16 11:16:03 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDaVe-00061S-00; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:16:02 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Oct 96 13:54:13 EDT From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) Message-Id: <9610161754.AA04079@ibx.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Chris' 5:2 counting post Resent-Message-ID: <"Op6DhD.A.sfF.ZXSZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/600 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:16:02 -0700 X-UIDL: 0d58df7b006fea76b587a19c7c807448 There was a post the other day from someone named Chris, describing a counting method in which the counter clapped alternately on each hand for a five count, repeating a note/word sequence. Does anyone have this message that they can resend me? From ???@??? Wed Oct 16 23:25:28 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 16 11:34:21 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDanM-00079d-00; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:34:20 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 14:31:41 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961016143140_1346782621@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Gripers can make good customers. Resent-Message-ID: <"N6KCfD.A.4kG.MpSZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/601 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:34:20 -0700 X-UIDL: 62a1071771ad268a3cecbbba1ca43512 In a message dated 96-10-15 07:14:05 EDT, you write: > > So what should I do? Keep talking about it I guess. Make a web site, start > a mailing list, try to convince Oberheim to clean up their act, what I've > been doing for a long time. Why do I do this? Damn if I know. Sure keeps me > up late though... > > kim Dude. You are making a BIG difference to me. I suspect you are making a difference for many others here, too. And, while individuals may gripe about this or that feature, my experience with customer support for cutting edge software has shown me over and over again that ironically it's your best and most loyal customers who gripe the most. The others just leave you -- as I did myself when after one month I returned a JamMan. David Kirkdorffer From ???@??? Wed Oct 16 23:25:29 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 16 11:34:43 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDanh-0007Bg-00; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:34:41 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 14:31:53 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961016143152_1610793246@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Bug or Feature -- anyone else experience this? Resent-Message-ID: <"dwohTC.A.HmG.ZpSZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/602 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:34:41 -0700 X-UIDL: c3dda0ec1ab452d90bd0f58edaf8cbdb Clipped Off Sounds OK. Here's something I experience with my Echoplex that I find challenging :-) I often use a volume pedal and a 400ms delay so that I can very gradually bring in a "sound" and fade it down. Kinda non-revolutionary, I know. But works for what I do. The trouble is when I bring in the note quietly, my Echoplex -- while passing the sound to my amp -- waits until there is enough gain to RECORD it so the beginning of the sound seems to be clipped-off. Now I know there IS a very cool feature to turn RECORD on when a note is played and the "trigger-gain-sensitivity" can be set. I've used it once or twice. But I turned this feature off. In fact, I've RESET the machine twice to make sure I've turned it off. So, my question is anyone else experiencing this clipped-off sound situation? And, are there any fixes? David Kirkdorffer From ???@??? Wed Oct 16 23:25:31 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 16 11:35:25 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDaoN-0007FN-00; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:35:23 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 14:31:54 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961016143149_1547477918@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, matthias@bahianet.com.br Subject: Re: Compression Device & Placement Resent-Message-ID: <"kJAB9B.A.pqG.OqSZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/603 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:35:23 -0700 X-UIDL: f535f73dd7c74871bca5a6d6e3291eee I mentioned: > >The second level of compression I add after all other racked f/x and before > >my Echoplex to help avoid overloading the sensitive input on the 'Plex. > This > >second level of compression tends to thicken my general sound too. > Matthias replied: > Did you try to use the Plex' internal compressor for this? Its just a > simple limiter, simple to access by simply overloading the input... > > Matthias > What internal compressor? I guess I missed that in the manual! Once again I'm learning something new from this list. Tell me more! David Kirkdorffer I didn't see that in the Manual. > > > > ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- > From lists@slip.net Tue Oct 15 13:18:51 1996 > Return-Path: lists@slip.net > Received: from ferret.slip.net (ferret.slip.net [204.160.88.6]) by emin09. > mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA08453 for ; > Tue, 15 Oct 1996 13:18:50 -0400 > Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) > id E0vDD8h-0002ro-00; Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:18:47 -0700 > X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br > Message-Id: > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 15:22:34 -0300 > To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > From: (Matthias) > Subject: Re: Compression Device & Placement > Resent-Message-ID: <"lFNNZC.A.eoC.Nd8Yy"@ferret> > Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/570 > X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com > Precedence: list > Resent-Sender: SmartList > Resent-To: SayAaahh@aol.com > Resent-Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:18:47 -0700 > From ???@??? Wed Oct 16 23:25:32 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 16 14:44:13 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDdl5-0002LZ-00; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 14:44:11 -0700 Date: 16 Oct 96 17:38:35 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Bug or Feature -- anyone else experience Message-ID: <961016213835_100041.247_JHB89-3@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"UNpCbB.A.yDC.laVZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/604 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 14:44:11 -0700 X-UIDL: 16409cc1068b9c77e6d19f4afaf2b46e > The trouble is when I bring in the note quietly, my Echoplex -- while > passing the sound to my amp -- waits until there is enough gain to RECORD > it so the beginning of the sound seems to be clipped-off. That's something that clearly goes back to the pre-Echoplex Paradis Loop Delay. I'm sure Matthias will comment on this feature. Just to make sure, again we don't want to pick on anyone, we *love* our Delays! -Michael From ???@??? Wed Oct 16 23:25:34 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 16 16:10:46 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDf6n-0000J1-00; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:10:41 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:06:13 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: COMPRESSOR?!?! In-Reply-To: <961016143149_1547477918@emout13.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"-ka8x.A.PH.3rWZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/605 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:10:41 -0700 X-UIDL: d710868be2d8fea0dd3d336d9b6a4e11 > Matthias replied: > > > Did you try to use the Plex' internal compressor for this? Its just a > > simple limiter, simple to access by simply overloading the input... > > > > Matthias > What internal compressor? I guess I missed that in the manual! Once again > I'm learning something new from this list. This comes as no small shock to me. I didn't know there was *any* sort of internal compression on the unit; I certainly didn't see any mention of it in the manaul. Also, as I mentioned not long ago, I've noticed a tendency towards rather unpleasant digital distortion if the input is driven too hard (a very common syndrome on practically any processor with A/D conversiion). Again, this has been there since day one, and was mentioned in _Guitar Player_ magazine's highly favorable review of the unit (I believe it was the Sept. '95 ish, with Hendrix on the cover). They remarked that the input to the Echoplex was highly sensitive, and advised that a compressor would be useful. They definitely made no mention of an internal compressor. So please, if there is indeed an internal compressor built in to the original software edition of the Echoplex, do tell! --Andre From ???@??? Wed Oct 16 23:25:35 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 16 16:14:51 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDfAl-0000b4-00; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:14:48 -0700 Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:11:21 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Bug or Feature -- anyone else experience this? In-Reply-To: <961016143152_1610793246@emout15.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"lU9EjC.A.ee.nwWZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/606 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:14:48 -0700 X-UIDL: 26e1f9172f559777f21c64eb388c855f On Wed, 16 Oct 1996 SayAaahh@aol.com wrote: > The trouble is when I bring in the note quietly, my Echoplex -- while passing > the sound to my amp -- waits until there is enough gain to RECORD it so the > beginning of the sound seems to be clipped-off. > > Now I know there IS a very cool feature to turn RECORD on when a note is > played and the "trigger-gain-sensitivity" can be set. I've used it once or > twice. But I turned this feature off. In fact, I've RESET the machine twice > to make sure I've turned it off. I've run into this too. I *always* use the trigger-record method; I can't remember the last time I didn't have it engaged. And I too use a lot of volume-swell/post-Holdsworth/Torn/Rypdal/(insert name here) effects in my loops; I also noticed that the very earliest parts of this fade-in were lost in the recording. I had previsouly assumed that this was symptomatic of the threshold record feature, but given what you've said, as well as the recent revelation with the noise gate, I think it's another side-effect of the internal noise reduction system, which I don't believe can be easily sidestepped with the original software. You might try compressing the signal... --Andre From ???@??? Wed Oct 16 23:25:42 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 16 16:57:27 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDfq1-00033P-00; Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:57:25 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961017000158.006cd65c@xenon.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@xenon.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 17:01:58 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: COMPRESSOR?!?! Resent-Message-ID: <"ruvap.A.zyC.TYXZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/607 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 16:57:25 -0700 X-UIDL: 97c8e75bbe2e69006371d4d237c5397b At 04:06 PM 10/16/96 -0700, you wrote: >> Matthias replied: >> >> > Did you try to use the Plex' internal compressor for this? Its just a >> > simple limiter, simple to access by simply overloading the input... >> > >> > Matthias >> What internal compressor? I guess I missed that in the manual! Once again >> I'm learning something new from this list. > >This comes as no small shock to me. I didn't know there was *any* sort >of internal compression on the unit; I certainly didn't see any mention >of it in the manaul. Well, there sort of is, but not really. We have a hardware limiter in there, but it never actually worked right, so we didn't bother to tell anyone about it. I think it might come on at some point, probably keeping an already distorting signal from distorting even more. I think I know a way to modify it so that it does work. I figured that out shortly before I left g-wiz, since we were planning a minor hardware upgrade at the time to fix emi problems. (I don't think that upgrade has been implemented, and probably never will.) It's not a real easy mod, so it's probably not worth the trouble. I'll post it on the web site some day for all you echoplex hardware hackers. As far as input sensitivity, there are some resistor value changes that adjust the input and output gains that are worth doing. Definitely an easier mod. Basically reduces the input gain so that it is easier to adjust, and increases the output gain so that you can get signal levels up to +4dbu. Don't remember it off the top of my head, I'll look for it when I get home. kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 OEM Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research From ???@??? Thu Oct 17 09:10:38 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 00:58:49 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDnLs-00000a-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 00:58:48 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 00:56:16 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Bug or Feature -- anyone else experience this? Resent-Message-ID: <"jSL_8C.A.gRH.IceZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/608 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 00:58:48 -0700 X-UIDL: 67963b754aadef4861827e1f3e52f842 Dave K. wrote: >Clipped Off Sounds > >OK. Here's something I experience with my Echoplex that I find challenging >:-) >I often use a volume pedal and a 400ms delay so that I can very gradually >bring in a "sound" and fade it down. Kinda non-revolutionary, I know. But >works for what I do. > >The trouble is when I bring in the note quietly, my Echoplex -- while passing >the sound to my amp -- waits until there is enough gain to RECORD it so the >beginning of the sound seems to be clipped-off. > >Now I know there IS a very cool feature to turn RECORD on when a note is >played and the "trigger-gain-sensitivity" can be set. I've used it once or >twice. But I turned this feature off. In fact, I've RESET the machine twice >to make sure I've turned it off. This is the same noisegate thing that caused Andre his weekend of suffering. The parameter called "threshold" is only for starting a record when you actually start playing. The noisegate is different. It's on all the time and has nothing to do with the "threshold" setting. The noisegate is there to make Undo a much more usable function, so that each press of Undo takes away a real overdub rather than some unintentional noise. It also keeps the echoplex from squandering its memory. Matthias and I have discussed ways to make the noisegate smarter, as well as adding a parameter for it. Its tricky, since the user can cause himself troubles with the undo function without realizing it. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Oct 17 09:10:40 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 00:59:09 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDnMD-00001c-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 00:59:09 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 00:56:18 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Bug or Feature -- anyone else experience this? Resent-Message-ID: <"1_Ix7C.A.ISH.MceZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/609 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 00:59:09 -0700 X-UIDL: 75079d6196e5119d1b425372bfebffea >On Wed, 16 Oct 1996 SayAaahh@aol.com wrote: > >> The trouble is when I bring in the note quietly, my Echoplex -- while passing >> the sound to my amp -- waits until there is enough gain to RECORD it so the >> beginning of the sound seems to be clipped-off. >> Andre replied: >I've run into this too. I *always* use the trigger-record method; I >can't remember the last time I didn't have it engaged. And I too use a >lot of volume-swell/post-Holdsworth/Torn/Rypdal/(insert name here) >effects in my loops; I also noticed that the very earliest parts of this >fade-in were lost in the recording. I had previsouly assumed that this >was symptomatic of the threshold record feature, but given what you've >said, as well as the recent revelation with the noise gate, I think it's >another side-effect of the internal noise reduction system, which I don't >believe can be easily sidestepped with the original software. You might >try compressing the signal... > >--Andre In your case, Andre, it probably is an effect of the threshold parameter. The amplitude necessary to start recording, which this parameter sets, will be significantly higher than the noisegate threshold. Using Volume swells with the recording threshold will most definitely result in the beginning getting clipped. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Oct 17 09:10:46 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 03:42:50 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDpub-0007Ym-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 03:42:49 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 06:40:32 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961017064027_1078642317@emout19.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Bug or Feature -- anyone else experience this? Resent-Message-ID: <"8jECfC.A.N-G.g1gZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/610 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 03:42:49 -0700 X-UIDL: 97cf27ea58ea1ed68add47c07d4d9dbf RE: Clipping. OK -- I understand the issue and the cause. This makes sense to me, because I experienced the problem after successfully silencing my rig to eliminate a hissy/hum using a very slight "noise gating" before my Echoplex. So -- now I need to have a post-noise-gate device that is a little hissy to open the Echoplex internal noise gate... OK. Does anyone else see the humour in this? Anyway, this is then a bug and a feature. Ad it's not a problem with my individual unit. So, it's not fixable (wihout adding "purposeful" noise back into the system.)? David Kirkdorffer In a message dated 96-10-17 03:59:04 EDT, you write: > Dave K. wrote: > >Clipped Off Sounds > > > >OK. Here's something I experience with my Echoplex that I find challenging > >:-) > >I often use a volume pedal and a 400ms delay so that I can very gradually > >bring in a "sound" and fade it down. Kinda non-revolutionary, I know. But > >works for what I do. > > > >The trouble is when I bring in the note quietly, my Echoplex -- while > passing > >the sound to my amp -- waits until there is enough gain to RECORD it so the > >beginning of the sound seems to be clipped-off. > > > >Now I know there IS a very cool feature to turn RECORD on when a note is > >played and the "trigger-gain-sensitivity" can be set. I've used it once > or > >twice. But I turned this feature off. In fact, I've RESET the machine > twice > >to make sure I've turned it off. > > This is the same noisegate thing that caused Andre his weekend of > suffering. The parameter called "threshold" is only for starting a record > when you actually start playing. The noisegate is different. It's on all > the time and has nothing to do with the "threshold" setting. The noisegate > is there to make Undo a much more usable function, so that each press of > Undo takes away a real overdub rather than some unintentional noise. It > also keeps the echoplex from squandering its memory. > > Matthias and I have discussed ways to make the noisegate smarter, as well > as adding a parameter for it. Its tricky, since the user can cause himself > troubles with the undo function without realizing it. > > kim > > ___________________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Thu Oct 17 09:10:48 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 06:07:36 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDsAh-0004Q5-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 06:07:35 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 09:05:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Bug or Feature -- anyone else experience this? Resent-Message-ID: <"F28z_D.A.oFE.A9iZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/611 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 06:07:35 -0700 X-UIDL: 47eef7b5c529ff74ac1f5fa9c97a9e78 I can't for the life of me understand why the Echoplex would have such a feature unless the noise it is attempting to limit is its own ... call me crazy. If you are challeneged to use a volume pedal in your playing and are unable to get subtle nuances of dynamic change at low volume level it begins to shape the music in ways that appear counterproductive. I've been thinking of "ramping up" to the Echoplex from my JamMan, but you guys scare me. If it requires this much tweaking to do the simpliest of maneuvers, is it still worth it?? From ???@??? Thu Oct 17 10:39:28 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 10:30:18 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDwGu-0000Cb-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 10:30:16 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 10:28:30 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: Putting my money where my mouth is Resent-Message-ID: <"DuHJBC.A.oUH.3xmZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/613 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 10:30:16 -0700 X-UIDL: c8a22cabbcf22b869cced38236d63f4e Kim wrote: >So what should I do? Keep talking about it I guess. Make a web site, start >a mailing list, try to convince Oberheim to clean up their act, what I've >been doing for a long time. Why do I do this? Damn if I know. Sure keeps me >up late though... Just wanted to say that I really appreciate your time and effort here too!! Perhaps, you ought to build your own device, for the next generation, so that you (and not some corporate conglomerate) can reap the rewards.... --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Thu Oct 17 20:57:25 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 10:43:36 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDwTn-0000wP-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 10:43:35 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9610171648.AA06799@ibx.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 10:40:00 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: Analog Echoplex Resent-Message-ID: <"PxAtEB.A.yk.N8mZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/614 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 10:43:35 -0700 X-UIDL: aeaade33cf3762320c996e01d143f7e0 >I just found an analog echoplex in mint condition for $250.00. Is that a >good price? I don't know....I guess so. I've never seen them for less. >Also, I hear so much about the digital echoplex. Is the digital echo an >attempt to emulate the analog, or is it just a different effect? So much >of the analog effect is due to its mechanical and temperamental nature, so >I wonder about the digital's efficacy. I don't know a lot about the analog echoplex, but I'm sure the Oberheim Echoplex is a different beast. For one thing, it has total MIDI implementation, ie. you can control all the functions via MIDI, and it will sync to a MIDI clock device (and vice-versa). Also, its got lots of features like UNDO, MULTIPLY, INVERSE (play loop backwards), which I doubt the original unit has. Plus you can have up to 9 loops, with a total of (up to) 198 seconds of loop time. While there's some purposes that I prefer to have analog (such as synth oscillators, or recording kick drums or bass -- for that analog compression, or an analog delay -- for that rounded, echoy sound), I prefer digital for most reproduction purposes. You get full bandwidth, no tape hiss, and no degredation over time. Most of my sound sources are analog, so I'm not worried about the "brittleness" that comes from a full-digital system. I can see the value of using the limited bandwidth or degradtion to make cool sounds that you couldn't get with digital, but for me, this isn't worth it. Of course, it depends what you're using it for, and what you like.... - Chris --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Thu Oct 17 10:39:27 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 10:16:49 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vDw3s-00079H-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 10:16:48 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Oct 96 12:48:34 EDT From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) Message-Id: <9610171648.AA06799@ibx.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Analog Echoplex Resent-Message-ID: <"iaL7hC.A.DfG.vkmZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/612 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 10:16:48 -0700 X-UIDL: cab2d1a5f6eba2f9a4a93e2cc31ea57d I just found an analog echoplex in mint condition for $250.00. Is that a good price? Also, I hear so much about the digital echoplex. Is the digital echo an attempt to emulate the analog, or is it just a different effect? So much of the analog effect is due to its mechanical and temperamental nature, so I wonder about the digital's efficacy. From ???@??? Thu Oct 17 20:57:27 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 14:55:45 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vE0Pn-0006tJ-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 14:55:43 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 17:52:41 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961017175240_1346942164@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Without hesitation, Echoplex is worth it -- and that's from a person who gripes! Resent-Message-ID: <"INIv7B.A.fWG.nrqZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/615 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 14:55:43 -0700 X-UIDL: e3a84f2db36fb781b6988e99d36b734e In a message dated 96-10-17 09:07:10 EDT, you write: > I've been > thinking of "ramping up" to the Echoplex from my JamMan, but you guys scare > me. If it requires this much tweaking to do the simpliest of maneuvers, is > it still worth it?? For anyone who has doubts about the Echoplex based on some of the gripes people are nattering on about (including me) -- let me mention any JamMan player to whom I've shown my Echoplex have been very very impressed. There are just so many features IN the Echoplex the JamMan does not offer. The JamMan is a fine tool, I'm sure -- and the has excellent sound quality as I remember it. But given the choice, I'd definately pay $500 for an Echoplex rather that own two JamMen @ $250 each. In fact I did xactly that. Truth be told -- the final thing tipping the scale for me -- and this will sound strange to some I know -- is I was afraid Oberheim would collapse and the Echoplex would be impossible to find ever again. How about that then? David Kirkdorffer From ???@??? Thu Oct 17 20:57:28 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 14:59:16 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vE0TD-00076H-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 14:59:15 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 14:55:31 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Analog Echoplex In-Reply-To: <9610171648.AA06799@ibx.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"YygCL.A.ulG.uvqZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/616 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 14:59:15 -0700 X-UIDL: 522dead07e149837844055eb0bb15e8a On Thu, 17 Oct 1996, Victor Fiorillo wrote: > I just found an analog echoplex in mint condition for $250.00. Is that a good price? I've seen mint Echoplexes for sale around LA for as much as $450. That's a very good price, I'd say. However, I'm led to believe that the original tape 'plexes needed to have their tapes changed periodically. Can anyone back me up on this? > Also, I hear so much about the digital echoplex. Is the digital echo an attempt to emulate the analog, or is it just a different effect? So much of the analog effect is due to its mechanical and temperamental nature, so I wonder about the digital's efficacy. They're two very different beasts. The reason the Oberheim has the "Echoplex" name is because Gibson owned the rights to the name when they were developing the looper a few years ago. As far as differences between the two units, I'd say the tape echoplex compares to the digital pro unit in roughly the same way that a biplane compares to a stealth fighter. --Andre From ???@??? Thu Oct 17 20:57:29 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 15:19:24 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vE0mf-0000Qt-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 15:19:21 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 15:11:37 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Another griper knees at the Oberheim Shrine In-Reply-To: <961017175240_1346942164@emout15.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"5bnYUB.A.4H._-qZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/617 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 15:19:21 -0700 X-UIDL: 0f5ed4f6dd97bd99d4bf1865fe285421 On Thu, 17 Oct 1996 SayAaahh@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 96-10-17 09:07:10 EDT, you write: > > > I've been > > thinking of "ramping up" to the Echoplex from my JamMan, but you guys > scare > > me. If it requires this much tweaking to do the simpliest of maneuvers, > is > > it still worth it?? I'll add my voice to the choir of Echoplex Gripers Who Love The Thing Anyway. If I had to make the decision over again, even with some of the problems I've had with the Oberheim, I'd still pick it over the JamMan, no question. As has been mentioned, there are things the Plex can do that the JamMan can't begin to approximate. Moreover, the sound quality is of higher resolution, the memory is vastly greater, and a lot of the minor bugs in the Echoplex are related to features that are completely non-existent in the JamMan. As Kim pointed out, part of the reason there are a number of quirks in the software is because the Echoplex represented a pretty heavy leap into uncharted territory. For instance, the noise gate in the Plex is designed to work with the Undo feature, to make sure that miroscopic bits of background noise don't fill up the "undo que" in the unit's memory. Undo isn't even an option on the Lexicon. For my part, I had tried a couple of JamMen units in music stores, and was intrigued but not entirey won over. By comparison, when I finally tracked down a place that actually stocked the Oberheim (no small feat, I assure you), I sensed almost immediately that it was the one. Ultimately you should spend as much time as possible with a Plex and see if it agrees with you. Lexicon's a great company (in some ways I'm enjoying the looping features on the Vortex even more than on the Oberheim!), and they seem to have their act together quite a bit more as far as having a clue as to what to do with a product (I'd guess this is the main reason that JamMan users seem to outnumber Echoplex users by a pretty considerable ratio. Can't buy the thing if you can't find it...) But in terms of depth and flexibility, you can't beat the Oberheim. --Andre From ???@??? Thu Oct 17 20:57:31 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 15:26:41 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vE0tk-0000rD-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 15:26:40 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961017222932.006e4be0@xenon.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@xenon.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 15:29:32 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Analog Echoplex Resent-Message-ID: <"uDOa-B.A.Ao.rHrZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/618 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 15:26:40 -0700 X-UIDL: 0d4cd714de0597df054a930f5b3685f7 At 02:55 PM 10/17/96 -0700, you wrote: >On Thu, 17 Oct 1996, Victor Fiorillo wrote: > >> I just found an analog echoplex in mint condition for $250.00. Is that a good price? > >I've seen mint Echoplexes for sale around LA for as much as $450. That's >a very good price, I'd say. However, I'm led to believe that the >original tape 'plexes needed to have their tapes changed periodically. >Can anyone back me up on this? prices depend on whether it is the original tube echoplex or the slightly later solid-state version made by Maestro. Try to guess which one is worth more... $250 is probably for the solid state version. You can tell those because they are in a black case. The tube version was green. The tube one is highly prized, probably going for $450 and up if you can even find one. If you want to sound like Hendrix or Eric Johnson, you want tubes. Either one will probably give you that tape hiss/warmth that some people like so much. This is all heresy, of course, cause I've never actually use either one. You can get tapes form Jim Dunlop. kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 OEM Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research From ???@??? Thu Oct 17 20:57:32 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 15:28:56 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vE0vu-00010a-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 15:28:54 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961017223327.00738ae0@xenon.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@xenon.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 15:33:27 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Without hesitation, Echoplex is worth it -- and that's from a person who gripes! Resent-Message-ID: <"EiQVXB.A.d2.TLrZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/619 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 15:28:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 772311b0c1ac463d6f69243a5a9ea5d6 Dave K said: > >Truth be told -- the final thing tipping the scale for me -- and this will >sound strange to some I know -- is I was afraid Oberheim would collapse and >the Echoplex would be impossible to find ever again. > >How about that then? > >David Kirkdorffer > If you are sitting on the fence about an echoplex purchase, I suggest you decide rather quickly. David may be righter than he knows.... kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 OEM Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research From ???@??? Thu Oct 17 20:57:42 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 19:22:13 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vE4Zg-0005Ag-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:22:12 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 21:20:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner X-Sender: dstagner@icarus.icarus.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: that's from a person who gripes! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"3gUf2B.A.9xE.KmuZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/626 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:22:12 -0700 X-UIDL: d5dded6f0a84fee9c7c765702bd0a518 On Thu, 17 Oct 1996 Paulpop@ssnet.com wrote: > > Fine then ... then let's call this the Echoplex Users Group because if the > bulk of you use it, and have nothing to talk about other than > idiosyncracies of the box, then let's not advertise this as a loopers page. > It has become tedious day after day to log on and find 95% of my mail > discussion the internal compression problems of this box. If you have to > put a compressor in front of a device in order for it to operate properly, > you have already changed the sound of the original guitar signal enslaving > yourselves right away to bells and whistles. The Jamman within its > limitations, does not do this and it can be driven very hard, cleanly, with > good results as far as the loop is concerned. > > I would prefer a dialectic that offered a more diverse discourse on music > making with looping as a fundamental element rather that this going on > about the IC board of a box. > > ENOUGH ALREADY Could we *please* lighten up a little here? There are a number of people here trying to make music with a rare, unusual, and complex instrument with virtually no support from the manufacturer. Suddenly, they have free and unfettered access to two f the designers, and many problems are getting cleared up. You should be happy for them for growing as musicians, not getting irritated for having a discussion you're not engrossed in. If you don't want to read about it, don't read anything with "Echoplex" in the subject. Is it that hard? Between personal interest and professional mailing lists, I receive 100-200 pieces of email a day at two accounts, most of which is uninteresting to me. The delete key is your friend. Killfiles are even more of a friend, if you have a mail program that supports them. If you're not happy with the subject, feel free to introduce another one. One of the benefits of mailing lists is that they happily support more than one thread of conversation at a time. If the Echoplex doesn't interest you, what does? We have had numerous musical and highly abstract threads here, and technical discussion for other devices like compressors and the Vortex as well. Please, don't yell at people for discussing something that is interesting and useful to them. We are all different here. If we weren't we'd be on some other mailing list debating the virtues of Yngwie Malmsteen or Abba. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. -Charles Fort dstagner@icarus.net From ???@??? Thu Oct 17 20:57:43 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 19:32:38 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vE4jl-0005fC-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:32:37 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 21:31:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner X-Sender: dstagner@icarus.icarus.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Analog Echoplex In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"DXQqIB.A.rOF.rvuZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/627 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:32:37 -0700 X-UIDL: 24a19b3912bb33bec8d0479f54563f9b On Thu, 17 Oct 1996 Paulpop@ssnet.com wrote: > Digital is always a compromise sonically. You will never find the lushness > of tape echo coming out of an Echoplex. > Unfortunately, we won't find the flexibility and reliability of digital coming out of a tape echo, either. I gotta say I *hate* the cold, lifeless sound of most digital processors. Even the excellent Lexicon stuff hurts my dynamic range and detail. I have my Vortex, my JamMan, and my old DeltaLabs Echotron (which I'm rapidly learning to love), and I would be VERY hesitant to add anything else digital to to my signal chain without really fine sound and a lot of functionality. I still spend most of my time with just an acoustic guitar. Still, I can loop it in a way, using rhythmic drone strings for texture. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. -Charles Fort dstagner@icarus.net From ???@??? Thu Oct 17 20:57:46 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 19:46:34 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vE4xG-0006Jj-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:46:34 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 21:44:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner X-Sender: dstagner@icarus.icarus.net To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Analog looping Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"U48dhB.A.c2F.r8uZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/629 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:46:34 -0700 X-UIDL: 20f9f387ac3c8eb6c695761a286939f7 I think maybe we've hit on a new thread here. I'm sure most of us here would agree that digital sound involves some serious compromise, especially for highly dynamic, wide-range instruments like guitar. So who is doing some sort of analog looping? I'd love to find an old analog Echoplex, or some other tape delay, but they're such a pain to care for. Anyone using the Frippertronics approach with two tape decks? I've done that one, helping a friend with an experimental studio recording. It's a big pain in the butt trying to get the two tape machines running at exactly the same speed. It's a good way to get a big wowing mess and a tangle of half-track tape on the floor. Sounds fantastic, though. Like I said earlier, I "loop" with retuned acoustic guitar quite a bit. I like to play long, droning improvisations that change slowly over time, and because I practice a lot I'm pretty good at it. The delays just make it easier. Certain feedback approaches can feel like looping, too. During my brief flirtation with feedback, I would often hold a feedback line together for minutes at a time, just letting the guitar resonate and change. I've also mentioned my delay/feedback no-intervention experiments... what Eno would call "systems music". The upshot of this, I guess, is that there's a pretty fuzzy line between traditional linear music and looping. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. -Charles Fort dstagner@icarus.net From ???@??? Thu Oct 17 20:57:33 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 19:01:40 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vE4Fn-0003yW-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:01:39 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 22:03:39 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Without hesitation, Echoplex is worth it -- and that's from a person who gripes! Resent-Message-ID: <"VuvRSB.A.hoD.OSuZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/620 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:01:39 -0700 X-UIDL: b9fc07c29df75fc0affa5e9ed3e1f61b >In a message dated 96-10-17 09:07:10 EDT, you write: > >> I've been >> thinking of "ramping up" to the Echoplex from my JamMan, but you guys >scare >> me. If it requires this much tweaking to do the simpliest of maneuvers, >is >> it still worth it?? > > >For anyone who has doubts about the Echoplex based on some of the gripes >people are nattering on about (including me) -- let me mention any JamMan >player to whom I've shown my Echoplex have been very very impressed. > >There are just so many features IN the Echoplex the JamMan does not offer. > >The JamMan is a fine tool, I'm sure -- and the has excellent sound quality as >I remember it. But given the choice, I'd definately pay $500 for an Echoplex >rather that own two JamMen @ $250 each. In fact I did xactly that. > >Truth be told -- the final thing tipping the scale for me -- and this will >sound strange to some I know -- is I was afraid Oberheim would collapse and >the Echoplex would be impossible to find ever again. > >How about that then? > >David Kirkdorffer Fine then ... then let's call this the Echoplex Users Group because if the bulk of you use it, and have nothing to talk about other than idiosyncracies of the box, then let's not advertise this as a loopers page. It has become tedious day after day to log on and find 95% of my mail discussion the internal compression problems of this box. If you have to put a compressor in front of a device in order for it to operate properly, you have already changed the sound of the original guitar signal enslaving yourselves right away to bells and whistles. The Jamman within its limitations, does not do this and it can be driven very hard, cleanly, with good results as far as the loop is concerned. I would prefer a dialectic that offered a more diverse discourse on music making with looping as a fundamental element rather that this going on about the IC board of a box. ENOUGH ALREADY From ???@??? Thu Oct 17 20:57:35 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 19:06:20 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vE4KI-0004EO-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:06:18 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 22:08:48 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Analog Echoplex Resent-Message-ID: <"mk5ruB.A.m3D.DXuZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/621 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:06:18 -0700 X-UIDL: 490aed25aa5fa453fba6c50d332bdfff As a matter of fact, tape echo has a sound all its own ... if we are talking sonics here rather than the bells and whistles. Yes, the tape must be managed and changed. Of course, Roland also made lines of tape echos with pristine and beautiful results especially when combined with their chorusing treatments. 250 sounds ok ... depending on the shape ... However a Roland unit with higher resolution comes for only a little more at least in this part of the world (east coast, non-urban). From ???@??? Thu Oct 17 20:57:36 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 19:08:39 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vE4MY-0004MA-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:08:38 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 22:10:08 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Analog Echoplex Resent-Message-ID: <"iul9C.A.u9D.WYuZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/622 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:08:38 -0700 X-UIDL: 755df601642d574e8052951d23568c5d >On Thu, 17 Oct 1996, Victor Fiorillo wrote: > >> I just found an analog echoplex in mint condition for $250.00. Is that >>a good price? > >I've seen mint Echoplexes for sale around LA for as much as $450. That's >a very good price, I'd say. However, I'm led to believe that the >original tape 'plexes needed to have their tapes changed periodically. >Can anyone back me up on this? > >> Also, I hear so much about the digital echoplex. Is the digital echo an >>attempt to emulate the analog, or is it just a different effect? So much >>of the analog effect is due to its mechanical and temperamental nature, >>so I wonder about the digital's efficacy. > >They're two very different beasts. The reason the Oberheim has the >"Echoplex" name is because Gibson owned the rights to the name when they >were developing the looper a few years ago. > >As far as differences between the two units, I'd say the tape echoplex >compares to the digital pro unit in roughly the same way that a biplane >compares to a stealth fighter. > >--Andre Digital is always a compromise sonically. You will never find the lushness of tape echo coming out of an Echoplex. Paul From ???@??? Thu Oct 17 20:57:39 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 19:13:03 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vE4Qo-0004d3-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:13:02 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 22:13:10 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Another griper knees at the Oberheim Shrine Resent-Message-ID: <"HKvkQB.A.pHE.HbuZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/623 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:13:02 -0700 X-UIDL: 2e98f0cf7040411f558603b771bd7508 OK ... you guys all agree that the Echoplex is the primo, out of this world, elitist loop machine ... we all hear you. Now, on with the music!! From ???@??? Thu Oct 17 20:57:38 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 19:12:24 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vE4QA-0004aU-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:12:22 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 22:14:34 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Analog Echoplex Resent-Message-ID: <"NM4iQD.A.nNE.ecuZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/624 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:12:22 -0700 X-UIDL: 450d1f03283822ed9af936b2ba342832 >At 02:55 PM 10/17/96 -0700, you wrote: >>On Thu, 17 Oct 1996, Victor Fiorillo wrote: >> >>> I just found an analog echoplex in mint condition for $250.00. Is that a >good price? >> >>I've seen mint Echoplexes for sale around LA for as much as $450. That's >>a very good price, I'd say. However, I'm led to believe that the >>original tape 'plexes needed to have their tapes changed periodically. >>Can anyone back me up on this? > >prices depend on whether it is the original tube echoplex or the slightly >later solid-state version made by Maestro. Try to guess which one is worth >more... > >$250 is probably for the solid state version. You can tell those because >they are in a black case. The tube version was green. The tube one is highly >prized, probably going for $450 and up if you can even find one. If you want >to sound like Hendrix or Eric Johnson, you want tubes. Either one will >probably give you that tape hiss/warmth that some people like so much. This >is all heresy, of course, cause I've never actually use either one. > >You can get tapes form Jim Dunlop. > >kim >_______________________________________________________ >Kim Flint 408-752-9284 >OEM Engineering kflint@chromatic.com >Chromatic Research I've used both ... go tube if you can get it. Paul From ???@??? Thu Oct 17 20:57:40 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 19:13:49 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vE4RY-0004gE-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:13:48 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 22:16:47 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Without hesitation, Echoplex is worth it -- and that's from a person who gripes! Resent-Message-ID: <"dgXkyC.A._UE.geuZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/625 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:13:48 -0700 X-UIDL: 27aea66fe8825947ffb3d071849f7a89 If I was sitting on the fence, and knew that Oberheim was to abandon the Echoplex, why would you buy something with as many glitches and you all havementioned. It is clear that with the market share of the Jamman and a few knudges, software/hardware updates and development are more possible by Lex. From ???@??? Thu Oct 17 20:57:45 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 19:38:09 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vE4p6-0005wM-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:38:08 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 22:40:35 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: that's from a person who gripes! Resent-Message-ID: <"g9HW_B.A.neF.20uZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/628 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 19:38:08 -0700 X-UIDL: 34fd4a08686ad3ff59202f6b3960ee06 Dear Dave ... a number of topics have been introduced here other than Echoplex with minor results ... I have introduced them as well. My comment has to do with you guys dominating this line ... and getting us all using our delete key. I am not the only one who has mentioned this by the way ... we have already lost a few subscribers over it. If you have some common problems why don't you pick up the phone and call one another and in "real" time, enlighten one another and resolve your problems immediately. The Vortex and esoterica have been a subplot here ... music is nowhere to be seen. The ongoing dialog of the advantages of the Echoplex over the Jamman come across as unnecessary, elitist and offensive. There are people here who use the Jamman daily. I didn't really join the page to defend the application of equipment or trump something. Can we begin talking about how we compose, how we might use these ideas in performance, what musical surprises have occurred, what mistakes became part of the texture ... Paul From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 01:24:03 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 21:37:56 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vE6h0-0002ug-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 21:37:54 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 21:33:43 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"pAMaAB.A.GpC.6kwZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/630 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 21:37:54 -0700 X-UIDL: ef1726fafd10dedd27ca03192df975ba Paulpop@ssnet.com has a decent point. I won't apologize for taking advantage of access to other Plex users and members of the design team to help answer questions about the unit and its problems, nor will I apologize for singing the praises of the box in response to someone's posted question as to why one would want to pick the Plex over the JamMan. But I agree that these are two topics that have been covered pretty extensively. So here's my candidate for a new thread. I'm wondering how you all feel about the sheer visual/performance aspect of looping and tweaking in real time. Looping of various forms is well-established as a studio form, but live on-the-fly looping as part of a performance is a much rarer scenario. I've run into situations with both looping and guitar synth where the first few seconds of a piece are almost immediately greeted by laughter from one or two members of the audience -- not so much as a result of the actual music (at least, I'm hoping not) but rather at the sight of a solo performer with a guitar that "plays itself" (a looping comment I heard) or that sounds like an orchestra string section. What I'm more stymied by is the actual aspect of changing and engaging sound via more overtly "mechanical" means (i.e. turning a knobas opposed to, say, doing something on your input device to change the sound). Does the sight of a performer leaning over and tweaking knobs to process the sound detract from the environment that the performance creates? One person on the Torn list remarked that seeing David play on his solo tour supporting Trilok Gurtu was a bit like watching someone fiddling around in his basement studio. For that matter, does it have an impact on the actual music making process for the *performer* as well? One of the things I like about looping via the Vortex more than the Oberheim is that certain patches will automatically change the feedback setting; a loop will spin indefinitely until more sound is put into the loop, at which time the feedback creeps down a bit. It feels somehow more "musical" than reaching over to turn a knob or rock a footpedal. Then you have someone like Robert Fripp, who not only embraces the odd visual aspect of looping performance but actually makes it a part of the performance itself, going to the extent of putting the guitar down and walking to the side of the stage where he files his nails while the loop spins on. One friend of mine who caught his first series of Soundscaping shows in Argentina said he got a real kick out of seeing Fripp enter one or two notes into his rig and spend then execute the rest of the performance by turnig knobs and pushing buttons. Some time later, when my pal saw me playing background music for a party at school last year, he laughed out loud when I set down the guitar at one point and walked around for a bit, the loop still going. As I'm two weeks away from my own solo looping performance, I'm thinking about the sheer performance environment aspect, and how the visual/mechanical aspects of looping can affect the audience's perception of the music. Anyone have any thoughts on any of the above? If not, we could always compare notes on unity gain signal-to-noise ratios on the inactive internal compression unit on the pre-upgrade edition of the echoplex... 8-/ --Andre From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 01:24:07 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 21:48:20 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vE6r5-0003O5-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 21:48:19 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 21:43:06 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: "This thing should not exist!" or: Pain through Quadrophonics Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"PIfeYD.A.-AD.utwZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/631 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 21:48:19 -0700 X-UIDL: 33022e1359915004495b86ffae0dbc2b Here's another non-technical screeb for y'all to read in-between trading schematic GIFs of Echoplex noise gates. 8<[ Today I was talking to my guitar teacher, a fellow by the name of Miroslav Tadic, who some of you may be familiar with through his work on the MA and CMP labels, particularly in conjunction with David Torn. Miroslav was telling me about a project he had done about fifteen years ago involving sending a one-note loop through a Buchla synthesizer which was panned through a quadrophonic speaker system. He had intended to create a tranquil, peaceful environment where the listener could lie in the middle of the quadrophonic sound field and bliss out while the loop circled around him. What happened, however, was that Miroslav found himself getting *seasick* from the experience. Rather than getting the sensation of sound travelling around his head, he found his quad loop generated the sensation of his own body moving around the looped sound, even as he was lying on the ground in the middle of the speaker array. He described it as a very disturbing sensation, remarking, "I had to wind up detroying this piece. I decided that this was a thing that should not exist." So there you have it -- looping as a means of inducing physical and psychological imbalance. (And no, Paul, I don't think *that* is a feature the Echoplex can boast over the JamMan. Maybe Lexicon can beat Oberheim to it in the upgrade wars!) I doubt I'll be eliciting any such results in my own recital, but it should be interesting to see what happens when the audience is situated in the middle of a five-way speaker array. Hope I don't trigger any seizures... --Andre From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 01:24:06 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 21:47:51 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vE6qc-0003ML-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 21:47:50 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 21:44:20 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Analog Echoplex In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"4lV8CB.A.nFD.2uwZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/632 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 21:47:50 -0700 X-UIDL: 2ad8f56ef1df8b5a2f8beb404e11fd9a On Thu, 17 Oct 1996 Paulpop@ssnet.com wrote: > Digital is always a compromise sonically. You will never find the lushness > of tape echo coming out of an Echoplex. Nor out of a JamMan... --Andre From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 01:24:09 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 21:59:27 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vE71r-0003po-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 21:59:27 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 21:56:05 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Boy, this fella wants some deep conversation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"cQ1SNC.A.6iD.35wZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/633 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 21:59:27 -0700 X-UIDL: 3204aed944bee8884b87ca3e36ab302b On Thu, 17 Oct 1996 Paulpop@ssnet.com wrote: > The ongoing dialog of the advantages of the Echoplex over the Jamman come > across as unnecessary, elitist and offensive. There are people here who > use the Jamman daily. If you dig the JamMan, more power to you. Just because the Plex is my personal preference doesn't mean there's something wrong with the JamMan. Under the prevailing circumstances, you're well justified in your preference. And as I've said before, the Vortex is sometimes more fun to use than the Oberheim! > Can we begin talking about how we compose, how we might use these ideas in > performance, what musical surprises have occurred, what mistakes became > part of the texture ... See my last couple of posts. Also consider: -- Has anyone noticed that the best loops always seem to happen when you're just sort of noodling around, not trying to do anything? Conversely, has anyone found deliberately trying to re-enact a particular loop almost invariably results in an unsatisfying endeavor? -- Loopists are always thinking about how to expand their looping time, but I've found some of the most interesting loops tend to happen within very short timeframes. That's another thing I like about the Vortex; the fact that it's got less than two seconds of sampling time forces the loops to be of a short-duration value. I've gotten things out of a 500 ms delay set to near-infinite repeat that were positively mind-altering. Thinking cap now clinging tightly to my very skull, --Andre From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 01:24:10 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 17 22:06:04 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vE78E-00049Z-00; Thu, 17 Oct 1996 22:06:02 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 22:02:26 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Analog looping In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Cye4c.A.L1D.2_wZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/634 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 22:06:03 -0700 X-UIDL: 7841908e7349e6591bd9fa68e754be43 On Thu, 17 Oct 1996, Dave Stagner wrote: > I think maybe we've hit on a new thread here. I'm sure most of us > here would agree that digital sound involves some serious compromise, > especially for highly dynamic, wide-range instruments like guitar. I guess I'm the black sheep amongst us, then. Yes, analog loop has its merits, and one of my favorite Vortex patches is the one that simulates a tape-echo with increasingly dark-toned repeats. (Paul, plase do not flame me for advocating the Vortex over the Oberheim, or I shall most certainly implode from the humor of the scenario. :-] ) As far as the old analog-vs.-digital debate, I can say that I've used both formats for recording and can appreciate them both, although I do like the fact that with digital I can anticipate what I'm going to wind up with more readilly. I haven't used an analog tape loop, but it seems to me that you're more subserviant to the limitations of the technology; i.e. you're gonna get diminishing fidelity and hiss whether you like it or not. I guess it boils down to a matter of preference -- much like the choice between the JamMan and the... oh, you know... that other one. --Andre From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 10:11:36 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 01:59:29 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEAm8-000415-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 01:59:28 -0700 Date: 18 Oct 96 01:49:00 EDT From: Teed Rockwell <74164.3703@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Putting my money where my mouth is Message-ID: <961018054859_74164.3703_GHQ35-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"X_VRQ.A.wuD.1a0Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/636 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 01:59:28 -0700 X-UIDL: e5251b43ff87a7f74d7481452cf91f93 Kim wrote: >So what should I do? Keep talking about it I guess. Make a web site, start >a mailing list, try to convince Oberheim to clean up their act, what I've >been doing for a long time. Why do I do this? Damn if I know. Sure keeps me >up late though... Seems to me you're doing this because this thing is your child and you know it deserves to live and thrive. We need more people like you, for whom such things are more important than money. Please keep up the good work, so that those of us who plan to build their careers around the PLex will have the support we need Teed Rockwell From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 01:24:12 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 00:50:09 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vE9h2-0002IX-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 00:50:08 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 09:49:08 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: digital vs analog? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"LS_e2D.A.wGC.7ZzZy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/635 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 00:50:08 -0700 X-UIDL: 1def1dde8201153764fa52420dbbcabc A lot of people say "I gotta say I *hate* the cold, lifeless sound of most digital processors". That's funny, because i've challenged a lot of so-called musician, self-appointed golden ears, after public statement about digital coldness to make a blind test at my home. Some answered positively. None in a blind test could clearly identify digital from a good analog (TDK cassette as well as 1/2 inch tape)... So, just take back our toys, and get back to work... Olivier From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 10:12:05 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 04:14:40 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vECsx-0004xw-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 04:14:39 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 96 06:48:30 EDT From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) Message-Id: <9610181048.AA04120@ibx.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Analog Echoplex Resent-Message-ID: <"pw68SB.A.zlE.MZ2Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/640 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 04:14:39 -0700 X-UIDL: 239f828a97b3db8e9868cb0e1c25ab38 If I purchase an analog echo, where can I get replacement tapes? From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 10:11:55 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 03:19:49 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEC1s-0007QD-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 03:19:48 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 08:22:46 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: building electron gadgets Resent-Message-ID: <"esZ0t.A.LwG.al1Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/637 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 03:19:48 -0700 X-UIDL: 19712a82810c84d2ef3f35ee966874f7 >kim, >i'll be the second for the digest > >thanksum! > > > >hey, anyone know the how's whereand whyfore of building effects devices? >I'm interested in getting started in more complex gimmickry You know the synth-diy list? The talk about effects, too, sometimes *** To subscribe send a mail to 'majordomo@horus.sara.nl' with a line: subscribe synth-diy *** Matthias From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 10:11:48 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 03:19:34 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEC1c-0007OD-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 03:19:32 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 08:22:56 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Are you tired of the list? Resent-Message-ID: <"RETi_B.A.FyG.ol1Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/638 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 03:19:32 -0700 X-UIDL: 3945700bf461315730af5f2e93557a09 >> >>ps: In other good news, my sysadmin finally set up the digest version of >>the mailing list today. I have to configure it a bit, I'll let you know how >>to subscribe in a day or two. >> >>kim > >just in time- had 50 messages after one day away, just about becoming >IMPOSSIBLE to deal with 'em! > >I'll be your FIRST subscriber!!!!!!! :) ;) I thought about doing this, too. As soon as I turn my back to do something in physical live, there are 100 letters with interesting contents I would like to answer! But then again I think that most have that problem and that is only US that create OUR rush! It was great to have an enthusiastic start, but LETS TAKE OUR TIME ! We can go on for years to find all the philosophy and technology of looping - no problem! Lets think about what we want and how we can achieve it. Answering slower, answers will be more mature. Treating less subjects at a time, we go profounder into each. Writing less in a mail, more readers will pay attention to it, and feel free to phantasize on it and go the next step. Leaving more space, more shy writers will appear and beginners will have curage to ask for their rights. I love this meeting. In 2 month we treated most subjects I had imagined the last two years and quite some more. The loop page improved 300%. Each one has a lot of tricks to try, books to read, CDs to listen,,, I love physical live... MATTHIAS PS Now I brought up a new subject. I guess I am the worst of us ;-) PS2 Funy enough, I wrote that *after* Phd lost his patience, but *before* reading his posts. From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 10:11:59 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 03:20:16 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEC2H-0007TR-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 03:20:13 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 08:23:22 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Analog Echoplex Resent-Message-ID: <"Z420oD.A.R1G.Am1Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/639 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 03:20:13 -0700 X-UIDL: 2de17f5c3c40e5cbdec1c076836bd882 >On Thu, 17 Oct 1996, Victor Fiorillo wrote: >> I just found an analog echoplex in mint condition for $250.00. Is that >>a good price? Andre answered: >I've seen mint Echoplexes for sale around LA for as much as $450. That's >a very good price, I'd say. However, I'm led to believe that the >original tape 'plexes needed to have their tapes changed periodically. >Can anyone back me up on this? I used a Roland Space Echo in the 70ies. I changed the tape about once a year and cleaned head more often. I wonder how long the heads make it and whether you can find replacement... Victor again: >> Also, I hear so much about the digital echoplex. Is the digital echo an >>attempt to emulate the analog, or is it just a different effect? So much >>of the analog effect is due to its mechanical and temperamental nature, >>so I wonder about the digital's efficacy. Andre again: >They're two very different beasts. The reason the Oberheim has the >"Echoplex" name is because Gibson owned the rights to the name when they >were developing the looper a few years ago. Worse: The LOOP delay was on the market when Gibson took it over and squeezed the name Echoplex onto its front "for marketing reasons". I complained a lot and even suggested to develop a real "digital echoplex" that would reflect the original Echoplex (like: the sound getting darker with each repetition). No answer... >As far as differences between the two units, I'd say the tape echoplex >compares to the digital pro unit in roughly the same way that a biplane >compares to a stealth fighter. Thanks. Now, if you want to fly slow, you need a biplane (I hope the analogy holds more or less :-) ). Matthias From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 10:12:08 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 04:53:44 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEDUm-0005oh-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 04:53:44 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:52:17 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Analog Echoplex In-Reply-To: <9610181048.AA04120@ibx.com> Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"PunvkD.A.gaF.D-2Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/641 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 04:53:44 -0700 X-UIDL: b716696a99141a170a7ba7a971e1d103 Someone could tell me how long a delay could offer an analog echoplex, a roland space echo???? Thanx Olivier From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 10:13:04 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 10:09:55 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEIQj-0003kl-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:09:53 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ToddM@LaserMaster.Com Organization: LaserMaster Corporation Date: 18 Oct 1996 12:08:13CST6CDT Subject: Loopy Atmospheres Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Mac v2.0 Message-ID: <199D116523D@laserm.lmt.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"HlXwz.A._VD.Il7Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/660 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:09:53 -0700 X-UIDL: 90a0883093597dcbabc42a3920fec25b Okay kids, who was it out there who said "icky, I hate the cold, sterile sound of digital processorsszzzz"? The sound of my guitar through my Boogie Studio Preamp with the Lexicon Vortex is so warm and smooth as to sound positively cozy. But I'll not gloat. I've figured out a new sound that literally makes clean chords sound like GATED STRING SYNTHESIZER. It's positively uncanny. Anyone want my patch? I'll call it "Madsonian Pseudo-Synth". As a joke, I put an actual string synth through it and what did it sound like (a guitar? someone asks?) No. Just more like the sound it should have been in the first place. Solo Performances? You've got to be kidding me. I suppose I could get up there with my rig, my drum machine and a synth and do improvs for an hour, but it would be terrifiying if something decided to die. "Not gonna do it, not prudent". But why the hell not? Anyone in the Minneapolis area wanna do ambient loops and rhythms live? Todd Madson PressMate Product Specialist LaserMaster Big Color Technical Support Corporate Web Site: http://www.lasermaster.com/ LaserMaster BBS: (612) TEK-LINE OTIS Faxback Service: (612) 943-3737 From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 10:12:10 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 05:39:36 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEED9-0006z4-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 05:39:35 -0700 From: Jon Morris Message-Id: <199610181238.HAA25264@beacon.moontower.com> Subject: eberhard weber To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:38:18 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "The Man Himself" at Oct 17, 96 09:56:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"MPibmB.A.5gG.Kp3Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/642 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 05:39:35 -0700 X-UIDL: 663c92f5c331c017b0a28f3173aa277f > > -- Loopists are always thinking about how to expand their looping time, > but I've found some of the most interesting loops tend to happen within > very short timeframes. > > --Andre > > I just picked up a copy of an album called "Pendulum" by Eberhard Weber (on ECM). It's all double bass and loops, with a few tasteful overdubs. The thing that caught my ears right away was that the majority of the loops are around 1 second or less. I have been falling into the trap of longer loops than neccessary, and this recording is a great reminder of the effectiveness of good short loops. In addition to the loop aspect, it's a beautiful album compositionally. Very inspiring stuf. -Jon From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 10:12:13 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 05:59:07 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEEW3-0007bU-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 05:59:07 -0700 From: Jon Morris Message-Id: <199610181257.HAA27092@beacon.moontower.com> Subject: Re: Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:57:45 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "The Man Himself" at Oct 17, 96 09:33:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"uGovaD.A.KFH.P73Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/643 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 05:59:07 -0700 X-UIDL: ee47fcd5623c8fcebfe78b6b5d7adeb5 > > As I'm two weeks away from my own solo looping performance, I'm > thinking about the sheer performance environment aspect, and how the > visual/mechanical aspects of looping can affect the audience's perception > of the music. Anyone have any thoughts on any of the above? > > --Andre > I'm three weeks away from a series of live looping shows. I've been seeking out performance opportunities that avoid a "staged" performance. I'm going to be playing in several office buildings, in atrium lobbies. I'll be set up off to the side, filling the space with sound, and not expecting to be a visual focal point for the audience (the audience will most likely be just passing through anyway). I'm thinking it will be somewhere between performance and installation. In regards to the audience's perception, we'll have to wait and see. -Jon From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 10:12:54 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 09:26:24 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEHkd-0001Ck-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 09:26:23 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 09:25:18 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: Analog vs. Digital Resent-Message-ID: <"qfUFNB.A.L-.K86Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/657 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 09:26:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 37e32b9311544247ea50dc46a3c95afd Paul wrote: >Digital is always a compromise sonically. This is such a general statement, it is not useful or meaningful to me. As Dave Stagner discussed, there are many factors to consider in a digital unit, including the sample rate and quality of the A/D conversion. In addition, I believe that one must consider the FUNCTION, when determining whether analog or digital is preferable -- ie. what are you using it for? Using the analog tape medium, you can't escape the following qualities: -- compression, then saturation, at high input levels -- degredation over time -- tape hiss As I stated in a previous message, there are times when I LIKE the compression from analog tape, especially for sound sources with lots of transients. Also, I can see how degredation over time can be useful -- in a loop, it creates a dynamic quality, rather than pure repetition. Also, tape hiss may or may not be a factor, depending on what you're doing. So, I think its important to consider the BENEFITS and COSTS (I must sound like an economist) of each medium, with regards to a particular FUNCTION, when considering which medium is best. Personally, I use both mediums for different functions. --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 10:12:15 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 06:43:31 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEFD0-0001Fg-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 06:43:30 -0700 Date: 18 Oct 96 09:38:25 EDT From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Performance/Jamplex/Indigestion Message-ID: <961018133825_74074.1316_GHQ49-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"G3a70C.A._FB.Zk4Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/644 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 06:43:30 -0700 X-UIDL: dd6c67e12dbead1fc7608dc686593ce5 >I'm wondering how you all feel about the sheer visual/performance aspect >of looping and tweaking in real time. Looping of various forms is >well-established as a studio form, but live on-the-fly looping as part of >a performance is a much rarer scenario. I've run into situations with >both looping and guitar synth where the first few seconds of a piece are >almost immediately greeted by laughter from one or two members of the >audience -- not so much as a result of the actual music (at least, I'm >hoping not) but rather at the sight of a solo performer with a guitar that >"plays itself" (a looping comment I heard) or that sounds like an >orchestra string section. Andre raises a very interesting issue here. On the one hand, as loopologists, we have the ability to create extraordinary textures and backgrounds, and make most intriguing solo performances. But the nature of much of what we do (at least those of us who border on the ambient fringe) doesn't translate well when put into a "live" context. The reason? The difference between listening to a record by yourself and with other people in the room. With other people around, it's very difficult to remove the exterior surroundings (the chair you're shifting in, the person next to you talking to his friend, the ugly drapes hanging from the wall, the smoke surrounding the bar area). When these external phenomenon intrude on your personal space, it's very difficult to lose yourself entirely to the music being presented. As a result, it's hard for an audience to get into what's going on. But one-on-one, it's very easy to connect (assuming the listener has the mindset for the music in the first place). For these reasons, I found it very difficult to enjoy the solo Torn show (it was still fun, but I'd rather listen to his records any day...) and have no interest in seeing Fripp live in a solo setting. It also expains why I've avoided doing any solo performances. I just don't think it would translate well. Part B: re: discussion of the virtues and lack thereof of JamMan and Echoplex (not to mention Boomerang and any other device with which one might loop. To those who are frustrated by the amound of discussion on this topic (especially surrounding the Echoplex) I'd like to comment: This is the only forum that I've encountered where an interested party can get the information and unvarnished opinions of those who are using the devices. After all,if you call Lexicon or Oberheim what do you expect to get for a response? THEY WANT YOUR MONEY! (I know, I worked for Lex). The fact is, these are music making tools that cost real money--a lot more than many on the list can shell out without serious justification. So they need to make an informed decision about what to buy. Let's not curb this discussion, let's encourage it. If we want Lex and Oberheim to continue to develop new looping tools or expand existing ones, it's going to take a much larger sales base than the 40 or 50 people on this list to make it a viable market. So let's expand the market by helping those who'd like to join. OK? Part C: Indigestion. PLEEEAAASSE Kim, get this into a digest before I go out of my mind. Thank you. Jon Durant From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 10:12:57 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 09:39:37 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEHxQ-0001vf-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 09:39:36 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 09:39:13 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: "This thing should not exist!" or: Pain through Quadrophonics Resent-Message-ID: <"0mZrG.A.SsB.QJ7Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/658 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 09:39:36 -0700 X-UIDL: b3e56294e3a895cdadcc116dba7455f7 Andre wrote: >Today I was talking to my guitar teacher, a fellow by the name of Miroslav >Tadic, who some of you may be familiar with through his work on the MA and >CMP labels, particularly in conjunction with David Torn. Miroslav was >telling me about a project he had done about fifteen years ago involving >sending a one-note loop through a Buchla synthesizer which was panned >through a quadrophonic speaker system. He had intended to create a >tranquil, peaceful environment where the listener could lie in the middle >of the quadrophonic sound field and bliss out while the loop circled >around him. > >What happened, however, was that Miroslav found himself getting *seasick* >from the experience. Rather than getting the sensation of sound >travelling around his head, he found his quad loop generated the sensation >of his own body moving around the looped sound, even as he was lying on >the ground in the middle of the speaker array. He described it as a very >disturbing sensation, remarking, "I had to wind up detroying this piece. >I decided that this was a thing that should not exist." Andre, I am in the process of setting up a quadrophonic setup, as well. I had this setup last spring for several months -- then business travel forced my to move, and break down my setup. I finally have acquired a new space, and should have this setup again within a few weeks. Using this setup, I created some "sound spaces", which were very psychologically stimulating, although I wouldn't use such a negatively-connotated word as "seasick". But there is something about the spatial aspect to the music that interacts with me psychologically, that I DON'T get from a standard stereo field. This medium lends itself to the "installation" style of performance, rather than the performer-audience style, since the audience, ideally, would be within the quad field, as well as the performer. Collier -- you mentioned something once about an octophonic setup...can you give some details on that. I would love to continue a thread on the spatial aspect of looping - ie. using loops to create sound spaces. - Chris P.S. Andre -- I would like to see your performance on Oct. 30, but unfortunately will be out of town that week. Will you be doing any other performances in the LA area? --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 10:12:17 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 06:48:59 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEFIJ-0001SM-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 06:48:59 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 09:45:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time Resent-Message-ID: <"cpC8mB.A.USB.Ep4Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/645 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 06:48:59 -0700 X-UIDL: 4ed38d580de3d887acc4f976e0d75dc3 Thank you Andre for your support and for your thought provoking statements on performance. I perform with a bassist and occasional drummer in my local area utilizing similar Frippian/Tornian etc. musics. These of course as you have stated rely on the manipulation and treatment of sound through human interaction with devices. I do not assume that an audience is there to be entertained visually and in fact I try to make sure that the proprietor and audience know ahead of time of my intention. In that way, I am not kidding anyone nor myself to "entertain" in the traditional visual sense of that word. In fact, we advertise ourselves with the slightly self-deprecating yet ambient stance that we are "music to be ignored." It would be my thought that somehow, the kind of "show" Fripp/Torn might engage in, rather than a somehow static visual field of their manipulating equipment, would be to somehow engage the audience in the manipulation by some means ... it would certainly be entertaining to me to have a visual of the rig with a visual of exactly what is going on. Now that might be fun for us gearheads but who knows. The artist in this context of performance, it seems to me, if they have the intention of "reaching" their audience (I make no such claim and figure the audience if they would prefer not to ignore us will find a way in) creates that expectation simply by showing up at a large venue. The trick then seems to me do they create not just the music, but the context within which it can truly be "heard." Paul From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 10:12:19 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 06:53:04 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEFMF-0001cE-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 06:53:03 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 09:50:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Analog looping Resent-Message-ID: <"YNTeRC.A.xdB.4t4Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/646 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 06:53:03 -0700 X-UIDL: 52f94fd7c32e5d842764a8e6f00676eb Dearest Andre ... I do appreciate the humor ... and if I came across strong, well, I don't apologize but rather enjoy some diversity here. Glad to see it happening. Paul From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 10:12:21 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 06:57:09 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEFQC-0001nD-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 06:57:08 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 09:54:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Are you tired of the list? Resent-Message-ID: <"fadHtB.A.4nB.qx4Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/647 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 06:57:08 -0700 X-UIDL: eac002f30aeafc58cdc89a032bb1fea0 sticks and stones MATTHIAS ... just trying to be helpful here and offering what I think is/was valid comment. From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 10:12:23 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 07:00:19 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEFTG-0001uk-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:00:18 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 09:57:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Analog Echoplex Resent-Message-ID: <"OEf7oB.A.0uB.X04Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/648 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:00:18 -0700 X-UIDL: 52dbc0770319d69a48fef317a4d9e447 For some analog tape echo boxes, you can make the tape yourself. In fact in the case of some Roland echoes you are left to your won devices in that there is no prescribes length a tape has to be so that you can make it quite long if desired. From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 10:12:25 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 07:04:05 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEFWu-00026w-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:04:04 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:01:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time Resent-Message-ID: <"2a4BhD.A.Z5B.q34Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/649 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:04:04 -0700 X-UIDL: 3f7d1e2b8b1dc6a124d71182df0b1cee >> >> As I'm two weeks away from my own solo looping performance, I'm >> thinking about the sheer performance environment aspect, and how the >> visual/mechanical aspects of looping can affect the audience's perception >> of the music. Anyone have any thoughts on any of the above? >> >> --Andre >> > >I'm three weeks away from a series of live looping shows. I've been >seeking out performance opportunities that avoid a "staged" performance. >I'm going to be playing in several office buildings, in atrium lobbies. >I'll be set up off to the side, filling the space with sound, and not >expecting to be a visual focal point for the audience (the audience will >most likely be just passing through anyway). I'm thinking it will be >somewhere between performance and installation. In regards to the >audience's perception, we'll have to wait and see. > >-Jon > I think you have it Jon. The idea for me behind this kind of music is not that it is to be attending to directly but either squinted at or peaked at occasionally. The visual field is less important here. Think of yourself as an installation is a good image. -Paul From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 10:12:31 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 07:26:54 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEFsz-0002z8-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:26:53 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:22:24 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961018102223_1380589981@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: When stuck -- how I create loops / ideas Resent-Message-ID: <"PKDxH.A.joC.gL5Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/650 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:26:53 -0700 X-UIDL: de9ae8631dbe987cc0ebe231a0f8e054 In a message dated 96-10-17 23:18:45 EDT, you write: > Can we begin talking about how we compose, how we might use these ideas in > performance, what musical surprises have occurred, what mistakes became > part of the texture ... > > Paul Good idea, why didn't you, then ;-) I hav eno musical trainning (typo intended!!), so when I'm stuck for creativity, I use a "device" or "concept" to get some sound rolling. For example: 1) using only "White" notes 2) spelling musical words with a seven letter alphabet (ABACAB...DUG) 3) creating only acending or descending melody lines 4) not using a particular fret-range. i.e. 3-12 The biggest advantage to the approach I've found is that I worry about "fulfilling the concept" and don't get hung-up on "is what I'm playing any good" just long enough that something can be born. Too much attention to can get in the way. Anyone got a simple "device" to offer? In fact, it could be fun to hear the output from 10 loopists all using the same concept. But then that's no different than listening to 10 different love songs I suppose. David Kirkdorffer From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 10:12:33 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 07:34:38 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEG0T-0003M1-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:34:37 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:31:15 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961018103114_1179465892@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Locatons for looping. Resent-Message-ID: <"sOBSgD.A.OBD.zT5Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/651 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:34:37 -0700 X-UIDL: 48e4e51f914f0e83efa1bfd99a8109b0 In a message dated 96-10-18 08:58:58 EDT, you write: > I've been > seeking out performance opportunities that avoid a "staged" performance. > I'm going to be playing in several office buildings, in atrium lobbies. Wow, I'd never of thought of that! I've been hunting coffee shops and live-looping before theatre productions and during intermissions. Who've you approached about looping in offices lobbies? David Kirkdorffer From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 10:12:36 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 07:48:49 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEGEC-0003zG-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:48:48 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9610181045.ZM10235@sparc.arts.rpi.edu> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:45:24 -0400 In-Reply-To: The Man Himself "Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time" (Oct 17, 9:39pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 06sep94) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"U3TFdC.A.7lD.Qg5Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/652 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 07:48:48 -0700 X-UIDL: b2d2c694ec0b39161f65fac85a891d45 performance! ahhhh... one thing I've started doing is to utilize computers/interface/whatever to created visualizations of note data or performance data. there are ways to do this with various software. my work is on an improv basis... or as in jazz and live dubstyle reggae (my versions of course) loosely based on a them - completely dictated by mood/feeling. a piece I'm about to take on tour(iEAR MFA show) consists of an indian classical dancer wearing white with the position of being a living dancing screen, a looping trigger percussionist, and guitar/looping/synthing/dancing. so, alot of what goes on from the midi outputs of the last two performers is converted into pitch/hue and velocity/saturation. we communicate by sound and visuals. i hope that this allows the audience to differentiate(along with the dance/act). the two midi visual signals are then combined in a video switcher with some added video footage and projected back onto us... this piece is loosely based on hanuman.. and bits of the ramakien(kings story in thai) this all came about from gigging with a three piece worldbeat group .... seems often times other musicians and audience members would ask if we were sequencing. yeah, this hurt my feelings. there seems to be a very fine line in performance with what is live... what is triggered, what is sampled, what is sequenced. sometimes I'd like to tell certain solo performers that they shoulda just used a portadat - over all the mac gear/midi gear/digi audio gear/ and max programming and lickmachine programming and all the junque and time that is spent and goes wrong in such a performance. background of this is a show I just teched/videoed... the performer read from a score that had footswitch points along with music notation. as he played flute he would trigger sequences, samples, effects patches and etc. yeah, it sounded great, and it was cool.... but! I spent five hours with him fixing his gear/soldering/testing/resoldering/reprogramming/resoundchecking.... and when it came down to the performance, would it have made any difference to the audience? I respect the pursuit and innovations involved. as a matter of fact I'm studying the very topics and techniques... but jeez collier From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 10:12:40 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 08:18:05 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEGgW-0005SW-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 08:18:04 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:15:16 -0400 From: "S. Patrick Hickey" Message-Id: <199610181515.LAA26940@nielsenmedia.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Performance/Jamplex/Indigestion Resent-Message-ID: <"va5YOD.A.QBF.v85Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/653 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 08:18:04 -0700 X-UIDL: 7c5539930dc9c375ac4465b6bfb7be16 Jon, Regarding performances... I am *not* a performer - I get all bolluxed up when performing solo. (Oddly enough, as long as there is one other person with me, I do fairly well, and in groups, I can really shine.:) What I have had success, as far as looping goes, is fairly intimate setups, aka living room concerts. These tend to work well, allow a good interaction with the "audience", and tight control over mood (with lighting [candles!], etc.). Pat ***SPH brzrkr@nielsenmedia.com From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 10:12:45 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 08:20:23 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEGik-0005ap-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 08:20:22 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:17:14 -0400 From: "S. Patrick Hickey" Message-Id: <199610181517.LAA27188@nielsenmedia.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Locatons for looping. Resent-Message-ID: <"NoQclC.A.RIF.u-5Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/654 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 08:20:22 -0700 X-UIDL: ba4089b31c8f248fa4a55f7ea26df04d Hope about places like Borders bookshops? From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:18 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 11:31:50 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEJhw-0000Mz-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:31:44 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:31:22 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time Resent-Message-ID: <"JqDI6D.A.UM.Ty8Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/662 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:31:44 -0700 X-UIDL: 83791ca11a9211900d8e28cb0ea3a145 Dave Trenkel wrote: > I play >computer-controlled synths, samplers and effects, using real-time control >software I've written in MAX, no sequencing or tapes, with a lot of live >looping and sampling of the other musicians. This is interesting to me! What devices do you use as your interface for real-time control? (eg. footswitches, footpedals, keyboard, computer mouse, etc..). What synths, loopers and samplers are you using? --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 10:12:50 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 08:35:13 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEGx6-0006I5-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 08:35:12 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:32:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner X-Sender: dstagner@icarus.icarus.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: digital vs analog? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"jykVX.A.TzF.mM6Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/655 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 08:35:13 -0700 X-UIDL: ae4e0d19652f59256696a084c224d522 On Fri, 18 Oct 1996, Olivier Malhomme wrote: > > A lot of people say "I gotta say I *hate* the > cold, lifeless sound of most digital processors". That's funny, because > i've challenged a lot of so-called musician, self-appointed golden ears, > after public statement about digital coldness to make a blind test at my > home. Some answered positively. None in a blind test could clearly > identify digital from a good analog (TDK cassette as well as 1/2 inch > tape)... You forgot to say "good digital" as well. Believe me, even tin ears can pick out BAD digital. I've owned bad digital devices, and for too long I looped with 'em (Boss and Digitech stomp boxes). Really, I'm not saying this as some technophobic Luddite Neanderthal guitarist. I have enough software and electronics background to understand pretty well the issues involved in A/D and D/A conversion (not to mention the issues of analog recording and reproduction). I also have enough business experience to know the sort of shoddy work and shortcuts that dominate the production of real devices. I studied recording technology in a high-end 24 track studio, and did side-by-side masters on DAT and $8000 Studer half-track. My ears are well-trained and educated, and I think I'm qualified to make informed opinions. Opinion #1 - Comparing digital and analog on a *cassette* is hardly fair, is it? The cassette smudges the sound so badly you can't expect to get more than the barest outline. Half-track is somewhat fairer, but will still go a long way to sweeten the upper midrange harshness of so many digital effects. Opinion #2 - A/D methodology is highly relevant. I love the sound of my obsolete Echotron with its 1 bit PCM conversion, even though it is supposedly inferior to modern "CD Quality" effects. It's not just the quantity of coloration, but the quality too. Opinion #3 - Many digital effects sound "cold" and "harsh" because of poor quality A/D and D/A circuitry that only counts bits and sample rates, missing many other factors that influence the overall sound. Too often, the problems are in the analog front and back ends (although you'll never hear the analog purists say that!) Opinion #4 - Given 2 and 3 above, sound quality cannot be judged by specs alone. This is why my Lexicon gear sounds significantly better than the 24 bit blah blah woof woof ART/Alesis/Zoom/Digitech crap it competes with, despite the theoretically limited bandwidth and dynamic range. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. -Charles Fort dstagner@icarus.net From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 10:12:52 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 09:03:42 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEHOf-0007mQ-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 09:03:41 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:00:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Locatons for looping. Resent-Message-ID: <"_8dwNB.A.HLH.dn6Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/656 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 09:03:41 -0700 X-UIDL: 5a7e746d503dfb5016baa8115e255059 I think Borders would be a great place for a loopy atmospheric thang From ???@??? Fri Oct 18 10:13:01 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 09:54:08 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEIBT-0002m5-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 09:54:07 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 09:52:44 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: eberhard weber In-Reply-To: <199610181238.HAA25264@beacon.moontower.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"zH9wtD.A.QeC.1W7Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/659 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 09:54:07 -0700 X-UIDL: f06fe6b8c90766b63237d6f96c748fcf i re-posted my thoughts on weber and pendulum on my web page: http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth/musindx.html in case any one is interested. :) **************************************************************** ** Dan Howarth, History/Music, University of Arizona, Tucson ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction) ** **************************************************************** On Fri, 18 Oct 1996, Jon Morris wrote: > > > > -- Loopists are always thinking about how to expand their looping time, > > but I've found some of the most interesting loops tend to happen within > > very short timeframes. > > > > --Andre > > > > > > I just picked up a copy of an album called "Pendulum" by Eberhard Weber > (on ECM). It's all double bass and loops, with a few tasteful overdubs. > The thing that caught my ears right away was that the majority of the > loops are around 1 second or less. I have been falling into the trap of > longer loops than neccessary, and this recording is a great reminder of > the effectiveness of good short loops. In addition to the loop aspect, > it's a beautiful album compositionally. Very inspiring stuf. > > -Jon > > > From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:16 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 11:11:27 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEJOI-00073f-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:11:26 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:30:10 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time Resent-Message-ID: <"fyxI3D.A.ecG.Ee8Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/661 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:11:26 -0700 X-UIDL: 660d681d8dbf832382df9c80c7673387 On the issue of live performance of looped music: I saw a concert lately that, while not exactly loop music in the Torn/Fripp/etc sense, used a lot of loops, sequences, pre-recorded music, mixed with live musicians. The bands were Loop Guru (great name, multi-lingual pun), DJ Spooky and Meat Beat Manifesto. There were 3 very different approaches to live performance in an electronic setting, with very divergent results. Loop Guru had 5 people on stage, 3 percussionists, a bassist/guitarist, and a female vocalist. Their approach seemed to be that the musicians provided the visual element, while most of the sound was sequenced (or possibly playing from DAT, I really couldn't tell). The bassist played very simple lines, while executing every tired guitar as penis substitute arena-rock stage move. The vocalist danced more than she sang. The percussionists jumped around a lot. Bluntly, they sucked, even though the music was kind of interesting. It just seemed that the musicans sound was not particularly integral to the overall sound, and that they were just there for show. DJ Spooky, as I mentioned in an earlier post, was fully transcendental. With 2 turntables and some effects, he created an amazing live collage that was closer to a jazz improvisation than dance music. One thing that made his performance so amazing was that even though he was using pre-recorded materials, the entire structure and ordering (and decosnstruction) of the materials was totally dynamic. Meat Beat Manifesto had a live drummer, a keyboardist and a guitarist on stage, in addition to Jack Dangers, who sings and pretty much plays everything on their records. They did a good job of balancing the sequenced material with the live material. It was clear that Dangers was doing live mixing from the stage, and there was a loose and dynamic quality to the performance that I appreciated. As far as my own experiences, I have played totally improvised music for the last few years, in a couple of contexts. One is a power trio called Minus, in which I play bass and occaisional live electronics. The guitarist and I both use JamMans (JamMen? JamMani?), but looping is just one of many techniques we use. We're very intense, at best we approach a certain shamanic vibe, and I don't particularly worry about visuals because the music requires such total concentration. I think we're not uninteresting visually, because there's is a pretty direct correlation between what the audience sees and hears, like when I'm bowing the bass with a serrated-knife, and the audience connects the ugly arhythmic glob of noise with that. The other context in which I perform is a pretty quiet, though I would not call it ambient, live electro/acoustic group sometimes called Sleep Deprivation. It ranges from a duet to a quartet with different musicians, often a percussionist or acoustic/electric guitarist. I play computer-controlled synths, samplers and effects, using real-time control software I've written in MAX, no sequencing or tapes, with a lot of live looping and sampling of the other musicians. While this stuff is sonically interesting,I've been told by audience members that it's hard to understand just what I'm doing. I'd rather that the listener's just concentrated on the sound, but since the music is difficult and often unfamiliar to them, some people want a visual component to help them "get" it. I haven't really figured out how to do this, though Louis Hyams recent message about visualizing computer information has some interesting possibilities. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:19 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 12:00:12 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEK9T-0001xN-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:00:11 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:54:49 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: When stuck -- how I create loops / ideas In-Reply-To: <961018102223_1380589981@emout07.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"WAO_pD.A.brB.fM9Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/663 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:00:11 -0700 X-UIDL: 6067990dee7f91789af843224ad79f4c On Fri, 18 Oct 1996 SayAaahh@aol.com wrote: > In fact, it could be fun to hear the output from 10 loopists all using the > same concept. > But then that's no different than listening to 10 different love songs I > suppose. Except you'll never see squirmy 7th graders slow-dancing to "What Means Solid, Traveller"... --Andre From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:21 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 12:07:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEKGI-0002Kz-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:07:14 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:03:06 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Warning: Self-promotional blurb follows! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"M8bR6.A.CGC.-T9Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/664 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:07:14 -0700 X-UIDL: b82b14f96391e32057ecbb52262b51fa On Fri, 18 Oct 1996, Chris Chovit wrote: > P.S. Andre -- I would like to see your performance on Oct. 30, but > unfortunately will be out of town that week. Will you be doing any other > performances in the LA area? I'll be playing in another student's recital two days after mine (what a week) on the first of November, where I'll be doing a lot of Echoplex/Vortex/Guitar synth stuff, in the context of a larger band. (No cerebellum-splitting pentaphonic sound system for that one, though, and as you say, you'll probably be out of town). I'll also be doing another recital at the end of February, which will possibly involve a "double duo" of two guitars and two drumsets (plus loops galore) with Mr. Tadic. Let me know if either of these gigs interest anyone, and I can send more info. Thanks very much for your interest! --Andre From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:22 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 12:15:25 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEKOC-0002mI-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:15:24 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:10:56 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Analog Echoplex In-Reply-To: <9610181048.AA04120@ibx.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"gUe3TD.A.NfC.Pb9Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/665 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:15:24 -0700 X-UIDL: 2fad5f9c5b5e6973b7e2e9a71564cab9 On Fri, 18 Oct 1996, Victor Fiorillo wrote: > If I purchase an analog echo, where can I get replacement tapes? I think Kim mentiond Jim Dunlop as a provider of replacement (analog) Echoplex tapes. From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:23 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 12:49:25 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEKv5-0004Sy-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:49:23 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:47:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner X-Sender: dstagner@icarus.icarus.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Loopy Vortex In-Reply-To: <199D116523D@laserm.lmt.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"cHtSSC.A.xGE.j79Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/666 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 12:49:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 6a07e273a6158a4c2f3b789017491f73 Ooh, a Vortex patch? Please post! Y'know, we should figure out some sort of format for posting Vortex patches, since it is unfortunately immune to midi. I'm not very good about writing down the good ones either. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. -Charles Fort dstagner@icarus.net From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:25 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 13:06:46 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vELBt-0005Qn-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:06:45 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 16:10:04 -0400 From: cwb@platinum.com (Clark Battle) Message-Id: <199610182010.QAA16673@octopus.ab.platinum.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Digital Multi-tracker looping? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"zJGhoC.A.KAF.-L-Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/667 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:06:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 4e3fef3867f71fa1274b276d3faab7d2 There are three MiniDisc 4-track machines on the market now (Yamaha, Sony, Tascam (next month), (Fostex cant be very far off)). With very quick access to any recorded data it seem like these machines could be used for looping quite well. Does anyone know if any of these machines can loop a section of music on one track while recording on another? I know some tape multi trackers do this as an auto-rehearse function but, of course, you have to wait for the tape to rewind. It seems like with a little bit of memory to cover the seek time of the MiniDisk, auto-rehearse could be used as a killer looper with saved loops! Is it a feature on any of these machines or am i dreaming? Clark From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:26 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 13:16:42 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vELLV-0005zq-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:16:41 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 16:13:44 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961018161344_1347077410@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: When? Where? Resent-Message-ID: <"TtX8iD.A.phF.6U-Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/668 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:16:41 -0700 X-UIDL: d44f6fca77b0833f1171f914e5c1877f In a message dated 96-10-18 11:03:46 EDT, you write: > a piece I'm about to take on tour(iEAR MFA show) consists of an indian > classical dancer wearing white with the position of being a living dancing > screen, a looping trigger percussionist, and guitar/looping/synthing/dancing. > > Sounds quite amazing. Where are you performing? When? David Kirkdorffer From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:27 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 13:39:50 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vELhs-0007CG-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:39:48 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 16:34:48 -0400 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961018163447_214100079@emout02.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Performance Theory Resent-Message-ID: <"2h7Wd.A.kkG.ro-Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/669 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:39:48 -0700 X-UIDL: 2e24add1d2720b4e5dde05b6fb53e9ec Hi all. Personally, as a live performing (and that mostly solo) loopist it's certainly true that I have had to address the uncomfortable fact that (except to another gearhead) I am about as interesting to watch as refridgerator mold. To counter this I have tended to select alternate venues (art galleries, music schools, "new music" festivals and/or seminars, or obsure clube that have a ready-made audience for this sort of thing on a regular basis). In other situations I have made sure that the audience had **something else** to look at besides me (whenever possible) doing music for modern dance/ballet ensembles, video artist/animated computer graphic designers, poets, performance artists, live film with the sound turned off, etc. etc. I know that as far as traditional "showmanship" go basically I'd be a flop anyway. I don't exactly have the moon-walk moves down yet... My advice is to simply be as true to your muse as possible. If people have short attention spans, that is not your fault (or theirs for that matter). It's just an unfortunate fact of life. But, there are ways around everything. And all things are possible in the end. Ted From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:29 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 13:46:26 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vELoG-0007Wx-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:46:24 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 16:43:16 -0400 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961018164314_214104199@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Loopy Atmospheres Resent-Message-ID: <"ntoGAC.A.v9G.iw-Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/670 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:46:24 -0700 X-UIDL: 6ed87cf60dc0de013b4e8302bbdcfaf2 Please! Send your "Madsonian Pseudo-Synth" to: killinfo@aol.com Thank! From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:30 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 14:20:08 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEMKt-0001Z9-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:20:07 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961018212111.00726c64@xenon.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@xenon.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:21:11 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: loop manufacturers Resent-Message-ID: <"l9AuaB.A.yMB.lN_Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/671 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:20:07 -0700 X-UIDL: 1daa965e66aa9520730aec84e8b265ba At 10:16 PM 10/17/96 -0500, Paul wrote: >If I was sitting on the fence, and knew that Oberheim was to abandon the >Echoplex, why would you buy something with as many glitches and you all >havementioned. It is clear that with the market share of the Jamman and a >few knudges, software/hardware updates and development are more possible by >Lex. > Sorry Paul, Lexicon abandoned the Jamman some time ago. I think they still sell them, but so far as I know, there are no upgrades or Jamman II's on the horizon. Jon Durant has lamented this for some time, and some well known endorsers have jumped ship as a result. Software upgrades are more likely with the Echoplex actually, because Matthias owns and develops the software, Gibson just licenses it. If anything, Oberheim's continued existence makes it a bit harder for the upgrade to happen since some old contract problems need to be resolved first. Oberheim's demise would mean Matthias would be free to sell it to whoever he likes. However, Oberheim's demise would mean that the number of echoplex units on the earth would remain finite for the forseeable future. So things don't look rosy in any direction, really. I want to join Jon Durant's ongoing call to action about this. There is very little support at any manufacturer for looping products. The ones that tried have lost money and gave up quickly. A big part of the reason for this is that there has never been any coherent community of users to demand products, or for manufacturers to market their product to. Hopefully this list can be the beginnings of such a community. I hope we can discuss and develop the art here, get others interested in listening and creating loop music, and consequently be better able to encourage manufacturers to create the sorts of products that are useful to us. And thanks for kicking the list out of that tedious hardware discussion. I get bored with that sort of thing too, since I've been doing it for a living for quite some time now. The more abstracted, philosophical discussions are much more interesting to me. Why we use the tool, what we use it for, rather than the tool itself. There is certainly room for tool discussions here, and it is relevent since looping is a hardware dependant art, but if that's all we do it gets a bit dull. Personally I would have chosen a more positive approach to the problem, but your way seems to have worked. kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 OEM Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:34 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 14:39:31 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEMde-0002gP-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:39:30 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:33:38 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Loopy Vortex In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"QIDkL.A.9WC.7h_Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/674 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:39:30 -0700 X-UIDL: 6aa8bd131ef699284cd0948d11c5af77 On Fri, 18 Oct 1996, Dave Stagner wrote: > Y'know, we should figure out some sort of format for posting Vortex > patches, since it is unfortunately immune to midi. I'm not very good > about writing down the good ones either. Shouldn't be too hard; you'd need the setting (or suggested range) for each of the parameters, plus the preset that the patch is derived from. That should cover the bases... --Andre From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:36 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 14:39:58 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEMe4-0002i7-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:39:56 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:34:38 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Loopy Atmospheres In-Reply-To: <961018164314_214104199@emout11.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"qe688C.A.yYC.Mi_Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/675 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:39:56 -0700 X-UIDL: 2e761bbe1e90169a6e5df81b2329675c On Fri, 18 Oct 1996 KILLINFO@aol.com wrote: > Please! > Send your "Madsonian Pseudo-Synth" to: killinfo@aol.com > Thank! Better yet, post it to us all! --Dre From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:41 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 15:10:59 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEN86-0004RK-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 15:10:58 -0700 Date: 18 Oct 96 18:05:49 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: exchanging ideas Message-ID: <961018220549_100041.247_JHB35-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"yxZrx.A.j-D.A__Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/679 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 15:10:58 -0700 X-UIDL: 222300adf118310829c467a62a055d4c hi all, I'm currently busy turning the 'Personal Profiles' list into HTML. The information contained in this list is too diverse to use quick macros so I have to do it manually which might take another couple of days (no, I'm not working on it all day ). While reading all your different profiles again, I thought I'd really love to *hear* what you all do. Maybe a few of us have homepages and can offer some of their music as files, others don't. It would be nicer to have cassette compilations with works of each of us. I'm participating in an ambient music circle (based on the mailing list ambient-circle@cs.cmu.edu) which sends several cassette tapes around. Everyone eventually receives a tape, puts a selfmade piece on it, and forwards it to the next person on the list. This way (in theory), there should eventually be several tapes full of music of all participants which can circled around so that everybody can make a copy. The ambient tape circle idea sounds great but doesn't seem to work because the circled tapes tend to get stuck with lazy participants. I'd love to have tapes of many different loopers. I wonder if the participants of the looping list would be interested in such a project. Maybe there's several possible ways to do it, or related ideas. If anyone is interested in creating a tape list, it is sufficient to send me a private email - I can collect the names and post the results on the list later. -Michael 100041.247@compuserve.com From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:40 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 15:10:23 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEN7W-0004P4-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 15:10:22 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 18:06:24 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961018180623_1644654329@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Without hesitation, Echoplex is worth it -- and that's from a person who gri Resent-Message-ID: <"gyDk0C.A.U8D.g-_Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/678 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 15:10:22 -0700 X-UIDL: 4c78328a17a6dc1873edb2a25a0f78d4 In a message dated 96-10-18 17:44:56 EDT, you write: > > Is there a way to lobby Lex about the Jamman or did you all already try > that? What is the situation with Oberheim and are they committed ... how > might we lobby them? > > Paul What did you want to lobby these guys for/about? David Kirkdoffer From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:43 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 15:19:04 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vENFv-0004up-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 15:19:03 -0700 Date: 18 Oct 96 18:14:12 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Loopy Atmospheres Message-ID: <961018221411_100041.247_JHB182-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"ZV53R.A.mgE.7HAay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/681 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 15:19:03 -0700 X-UIDL: 6b40ac89a82aa03eec4bd710763f4c82 >Please! >Send your "Madsonian Pseudo-Synth" to: killinfo@aol.com to the whole list, please. -Michael From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:44 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 15:19:16 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vENG6-0004vl-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 15:19:14 -0700 Date: 18 Oct 96 18:14:14 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Loopy Atmospheres Message-ID: <961018221414_100041.247_JHB182-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"yGMwF.A.IgE.4HAay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/680 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 15:19:14 -0700 X-UIDL: c46333188446814fa81eea7d7a67c759 > I would be interested in any saved discussions about the Vortex Kim, did you receive them? (couple days ago) -Michael From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:31 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 14:32:04 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEMWR-0002F7-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:32:03 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 17:33:15 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Loopy Atmospheres Resent-Message-ID: <"Ae_-2D.A.i-B.bb_Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/672 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:32:03 -0700 X-UIDL: d1eca7f2ca07b8e06052926854631295 I would be interested in any saved discussions about the Vortex From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:32 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 14:34:23 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEMYh-0002Ne-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:34:23 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 17:36:24 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time Resent-Message-ID: <"LB6DYD.A.0IC.-d_Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/673 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:34:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 6da5da2674beb0d3fa221ffff6f34b61 Love your message Dave ... tell me more what the bassist is doing with the Jamman ... my bassist is hot on moving into the looping thing ... paul From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:37 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 14:44:04 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEMi0-0002y2-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:44:00 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 17:46:07 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Without hesitation, Echoplex is worth it -- and that's from a person who gripes! Resent-Message-ID: <"bNXQcD.A.ooC.ym_Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/676 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:44:00 -0700 X-UIDL: cd93d2d42d3946d6d1c1820c3e4ea167 Thanks Kim ... if the method was madness, I apologize ... but the job got done. From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:39 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 14:45:49 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEMjk-00035k-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:45:48 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 17:47:34 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Without hesitation, Echoplex is worth it -- and that's from a person who gripes! Resent-Message-ID: <"cFHbh.A.gwC.Mo_Zy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/677 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:45:48 -0700 X-UIDL: be7532f42e7756c7038bbb193e8d3a76 Is there a way to lobby Lex about the Jamman or did you all already try that? What is the situation with Oberheim and are they committed ... how might we lobby them? Paul From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:49 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 17:00:25 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEOpz-00023v-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 17:00:23 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 16:58:01 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: exchanging ideas/PROPOSAL In-Reply-To: <961018220549_100041.247_JHB35-1@CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"rN0EYB.A.2vB.PlBay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/684 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 17:00:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 887d158aa2d4e4941cef96ed03fb3684 hi folks, i'm sure you'll all recognize me as a stead-fast lurker here on the loop (beings that i don't own the mythical echoplex and haven't ever even touched one -sigh- i've more or less been a steady and very productive lurker - doing those things that lurks can only do :) anyhow... i'm very interested in the original post which i've responded to. i didn't include it because it was fairly long. to summarize: the author requested interest in sharing musical recordings either via snail mail or upon WWW sites. i'm currently involved in a school-related project to create musical web pages, and i've chosen (ta-dah) 'a presentation on the observations of stringed oddities' as a title, but haven't gotten much further with the idea since that stroke of genius. i posted to stickwire for feedback, and proposed a personal profile survey as well as a philosophy/approaches survey. <><><><><><><><>< at this point i'd like to propose the following opportunities: a similar survey to looperdom involving our thoughts/methods, personal feelings, etc. on looping/playing/music/life/theuniverse/everything. inclusion of sound files (DISK SPACE IS NOT A LIMITATION or so i've been told - i can't imagine what they'll say if i show up with 30 megs of .wavs) for general appreciation. anything else anyone would like to do... i've access to the U of A's multi-quadrillion dollar media arts lab (not that i know how to use the stuff, but that i could probably do lots of neat tricks) the big thing i'd like to keep in mind is that i've got a lot of disk space available. i can easily harbor sound files of loop work. let me know if anyone has ideas, advancements, etc. thanks. **************************************************************** ** Dan Howarth, History/Music, University of Arizona, Tucson ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction) ** **************************************************************** From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:48 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 16:20:31 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEODN-00009T-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 16:20:29 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 19:16:05 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Without hesitation, Echoplex is worth it -- and that's from a person who gri Resent-Message-ID: <"pLuDyC.A.3_G.I7Aay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/682 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 16:20:30 -0700 X-UIDL: 1518ff2bca0fd0ab730a896e749c180e >In a message dated 96-10-18 17:44:56 EDT, you write: > >> >> Is there a way to lobby Lex about the Jamman or did you all already try >> that? What is the situation with Oberheim and are they committed ... how >> might we lobby them? >> >> Paul > >What did you want to lobby these guys for/about? > >David Kirkdoffer To see if support for further development of looping devices would be possible ... something on the order of Jamman II oar software/hardware updates Paul From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:47 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 16:17:53 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEOAp-0007nh-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 16:17:51 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 19:17:08 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Loopy Atmospheres Resent-Message-ID: <"IFf3XC.A.wDH.F8Aay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/683 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 16:17:51 -0700 X-UIDL: 32d9229c5fe870708d1a95a65449935d >> I would be interested in any saved discussions about the Vortex > >Kim, did you receive them? (couple days ago) -Michael > I never received them ... Paul From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:51 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 18:08:08 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEPtV-00051V-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 18:08:05 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 18:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: finley@ecst.csuchico.edu (Matthew F. McCabe) Subject: Re: Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time Resent-Message-ID: <"bmel.A.6oE.vmCay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/685 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 18:08:05 -0700 X-UIDL: 82f5bd29bcc435121bab683f8ab2447f Andre said.... >As I'm two weeks away from my own solo looping performance, I'm >thinking about the sheer performance environment aspect, and how the >visual/mechanical aspects of looping can affect the audience's perception >of the music. Anyone have any thoughts on any of the above? I've only played two solo looping gigs but both times I've heard people muttering things about synthesizers and keyboards. That's face it....most people have never been exposed to the idea of looping....or delay for that matter (I'm speaking of the average Joe/non-musical person here). Heck...even my girlfriend, whom I've explained the concept to many times before, still doesn't quite grasp it. Hopefully your music will speak through the "that guy isn't playing those sounds" questions. Playing a "traditional" guitar solo (I'm a guitarist....please forgive my bias) over the top of a loop, in my opinion, helps to remind people that you really are playing your instrument....even if they don't understand the technical aspects of your whole performance. Matt ------------------------------------------------------------ King Never http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~finley/kingnever.html ------------------------------------------------------------ Matthew F. McCabe Able Cain King Never Marathon Records From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:52 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 18:30:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEQEw-0005ss-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 18:30:14 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 21:27:58 -0400 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961018212758_129546290@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Loopy Atmospheres Resent-Message-ID: <"7ZrIf.A.fcF.f7Cay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/686 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 18:30:14 -0700 X-UIDL: f26ed7da501787c8eae1bd7a7e43f4bf Greeting again. This afternoon I wrote: >Please! >Send your "Madsonian Pseudo-Synth" to: killinfo@aol.com I did not mean to preclude anyone from sending it to everyone else. Perhaps I could have worded it better. I merely meant that *if* it wasn't broadcast generally, at least I for one would be interested in checking it out. No offense intended. From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:53 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 18:56:54 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEQei-0006ry-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 18:56:52 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 18:18:01 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time Resent-Message-ID: <"76RhWC.A.zXG.qUDay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/687 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 18:56:53 -0700 X-UIDL: e9d73638ec969a0b064ab14d1fdcaca3 >Dave Trenkel wrote: > >> I play >>computer-controlled synths, samplers and effects, using real-time control >>software I've written in MAX, no sequencing or tapes, with a lot of live >>looping and sampling of the other musicians. > >This is interesting to me! What devices do you use as your interface for >real-time control? (eg. footswitches, footpedals, keyboard, computer mouse, >etc..). What synths, loopers and samplers are you using? > Well, since you asked :-) I use 2 keyboards, Yamaha DX-7 and a Sequential Circuits Six-Trak, and a Peavey PC-1600 midi fader box (16 programmable faders, 16 programmable buttons and 2 foot controller inputs, also programmable). These run into Mac IIsi running a batch of MAX patches I've written over the years that do primitive sequencing/midi looping, system exclusive timbral control of the synthesizers, and various other controller functions. This all drives a Korg DSM-1 sampler, a Yamaha tx81-z, the dx-7, 6-trak, and for processing, Lexicon LXP-5 and jAmmAn, and a Boss SE-50. I use just about anything I can to generate controllers, from the dx-7 breath controller to the jaMman footpedals. I can do real-time sampling and looping with the JammaN, and slightly-less than real-time with the DSM-1. One of my common strategies is to have my collaborators start playing without me, while I sample and loop them with no audio out, then after a minute or two I start bringing in the loops, doing live processing, etc. I also have a pair of ARP Odysseys that sometimes make it to gigs as well, depending on how much stuff I feel like carrying. The ARP's are great not only as sound sources, but as processors as well, since you can run audio through their filters. There are some other areas I'd like to break into with this. I have a powermac that I use in the studio for Deck/Hyperprism/Studio Vision, etc, and I'd like to either write some DSP routines for it, or, (more likely) link some Hyperprism instruments into the system for more flexible processing. Also, a 2nd jaMMan or Echoplex may come into the system eventually... I don't perform with this setup as often as I'd like, because it takes a lot of setup/hauling time. I'm also looking for ways to streamline it, like getting a cheap powerbook to run the max stuff. Anybody else out there doing live computer music? ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:55 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 18:57:00 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEQep-0006sc-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 18:56:59 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 18:18:14 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time Resent-Message-ID: <"nUxIM.A._YG.1UDay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/688 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 18:56:59 -0700 X-UIDL: 3513e8afe02864455a67c84694f3437a >Love your message Dave ... tell me more what the bassist is doing with the >Jamman ... my bassist is hot on moving into the looping thing ... > >paul Well, I'm the bssist. I use the JAmman for mostly looping noise/textures, which I can fade in and out with a volume pedal. It hasn't worked very well for looping grooves or bass lines to solo over, because without really great monitoring, virtually non-existant in the alt-rock clubs and galleries we play, our drummer can't stay in sync with the loops. Also, the jammAN seems to lose some of the low frequencies I feed it. But if your bassist is into doing stuff beyond conventional bass playing, a looper is great. It really fills up a trio texture. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:06:02 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 20:12:54 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vERqH-0001rM-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 20:12:53 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9610182310.ZM11736@sparc.arts.rpi.edu> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 23:10:37 -0400 In-Reply-To: Chris Chovit "Re: "This thing should not exist!" or: Pain through Quadrophonics" (Oct 18, 9:41am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 06sep94) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: "This thing should not exist!" or: Pain through Quadrophonics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"WRiit.A.ysB.2bEay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/690 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 20:12:53 -0700 X-UIDL: 0b8fadae2894f5cf351dc486dc348e18 On Oct 18, 9:41am, Chris Chovit wrote: > Subject: Re: "This thing should not exist!" or: Pain through Quadrophonics > Collier -- you mentioned something once about an octophonic setup...can > you give some details on that. I would love to continue a thread on the > spatial aspect of looping - ie. using loops to create sound spaces. > > - Chris yeah, that's neat stuff. if you had the lights off you would think all the sounds real/live/living/livid and then scary. one of the grads here is steve copel. he has been studying under alvin lucia (very famous for electronic music and purity of). they spent most of last year working with a system called the LARUS which is a superexpensivehighend Lexicon device. so, what they did (under a guy named jaffey) was create a score with this device to play the space in a given room. you can turn up the feedback all the way and not have your reverb feed back. with the same system copel wrote several pieces with 8 channels to da-88 with 8 neuman mics next to 8 speakers(not on at the same time). some of the pieces were simply recording 8 channels at once whilst pacing around in circles. another was sliding chairs through the recording field/room. this evolved into steve doing 8 channel overdub e-bow on lapsteel stuff. the neatest thing is when the frequencies converge in various channels and then drift out. talk about mood altering I've done a six channel piece here. it was with 3 stereo pairs and not 8 identical but separate channels. we did some studies on "musique electroacoustique" ... ie performing from the mixing console to an audience. i'm not sure what I learned, other than feeling uncomfortable at stepping on Stockhausen's toes(not to mention Varese). this was all multichannel. did I say anything? or was that another ramble? point is, yeah... I'm working toward doing an 8 channel performance. using tannoy pbm8's and samson amps through a mackie 8 bus board. the problem is getting something inspirational out of my guitarsynthlooping rig for that many channels without simply using 50-100 mil delays for separationeffectomolosis. collier From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:05:56 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 19:11:22 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEQsk-0007Oh-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 19:11:22 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 22:14:20 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time Resent-Message-ID: <"N9tCr.A.J5G.OiDay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/689 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 19:11:22 -0700 X-UIDL: 962f4840cd3c080cf056e39773053c0b >>Love your message Dave ... tell me more what the bassist is doing with the >>Jamman ... my bassist is hot on moving into the looping thing ... >> >>paul > >Well, I'm the bssist. I use the JAmman for mostly looping noise/textures, >which I can fade in and out with a volume pedal. It hasn't worked very well >for looping grooves or bass lines to solo over, because without really >great monitoring, virtually non-existant in the alt-rock clubs and >galleries we play, our drummer can't stay in sync with the loops. Also, the >jammAN seems to lose some of the low frequencies I feed it. But if your >bassist is into doing stuff beyond conventional bass playing, a looper is >great. It really fills up a trio texture. > >________________________________________________________ thanks her will be glad to hear it Paul From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:06:04 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 20:54:30 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vESUX-00038z-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 20:54:29 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9610182353.ZM11806@sparc.arts.rpi.edu> Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 23:53:37 -0400 In-Reply-To: SayAaahh@aol.com "When? Where?" (Oct 18, 1:17pm) References: <961018161344_1347077410@emout04.mail.aol.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 06sep94) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: When? Where? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"3gfw9B.A.j6C.MDFay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/691 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 20:54:29 -0700 X-UIDL: 681f2910d02e9a5105a5d7667df17440 On Oct 18, 1:17pm, SayAaahh@aol.com wrote: > Subject: When? Where? > > a piece I'm about to take on tour(iEAR MFA show) consists of an indian > > classical dancer wearing white with the position of being a living >dancing screen, a looping trigger percussionist, and > guitar/looping/synthing/dancing. > > > > > Sounds quite amazing. Where are you performing? When? > > David Kirkdorffer > this tour starts in two weeks(actually more like a week and ahalf!) and hits Dartmouth, Bard, RPI and possible others including the Kitchen in NYC. I'm not sure exactly. the admins are taking care of the bookings. I'll work on getting documentation via vhs of some of our work here at iEAR for future reference. so, I know this cat named Sukandar that did some work with a six dsp box for signal processing and such. Matthias you know him, did you ever see this kinda work? sorry all, I'm kinda hung up on this design and build my own effects thread right now. and will stay that way until i learn something... collier From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:06:05 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 22:20:09 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vETpQ-0005pO-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 22:20:08 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961019052517.006df71c@xenon.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@xenon.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 22:25:17 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time Resent-Message-ID: <"DgPR6.A.ZbF.aTGay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/692 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 22:20:08 -0700 X-UIDL: 2c0314ac20dfbdd703328e0be3c002cb At 10:14 PM 10/18/96 -0500, you wrote: >>>Love your message Dave ... tell me more what the bassist is doing with the >>>Jamman ... my bassist is hot on moving into the looping thing ... >>> >>>paul >> >>Well, I'm the bssist. I use the JAmman for mostly looping noise/textures, >>which I can fade in and out with a volume pedal. It hasn't worked very well >>for looping grooves or bass lines to solo over, because without really >>great monitoring, virtually non-existant in the alt-rock clubs and >>galleries we play, our drummer can't stay in sync with the loops. Also, the >>jammAN seems to lose some of the low frequencies I feed it. But if your >>bassist is into doing stuff beyond conventional bass playing, a looper is >>great. It really fills up a trio texture. >> >>________________________________________________________ >thanks her will be glad to hear it I guy I know that was working on various other gwiz related projects during the echoplex development is an excellent jazz bassist. Fred Marshall's his name. He borrowed (and kept, actually) one of the Paradis Loop Delays we had and used it to great effect in his bop/free jazz quartet. He had his upright bass miked, feeding the loopdelay, then going to his amp. During more standard tunes, he would occaisionally lay down a chorus in the loop, which the drummer would keep grooving to. Meanwhile, he would bow notes to add harmonies in support of the soloist, or take solos over it himself. During the more free/improv sections he would build up textures and such. I thought it all fit in very well, a good example of loops working in rather traditional formats. hmm, now that I think about it I loaned him an echoplex prototype once for a weekend gig and never saw that one again either. He made great music with it so I guess its better than it rusting away in some gibson warehouse. Anyway, awesome band too...some of the best, most invigorating jazz I've ever seen. His son Joshie was playing sax; he's only in his early twenties and just frighteningly good. that's another story though.... kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 OEM Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:06:08 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 22:32:48 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEU1e-0006Gr-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 22:32:46 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961019053808.00731a74@xenon.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@xenon.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 22:38:08 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: When? Where? Resent-Message-ID: <"OVkdRB.A.c2F.ffGay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/693 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 22:32:46 -0700 X-UIDL: 45c79143502dd424e678afd4652a6df8 > >so, I know this cat named Sukandar that did some work with a six dsp box for >signal processing and such. Matthias you know him, did you ever see this >kinda work? sorry all, I'm kinda hung up on this design and build my own >effects thread right now. and will stay that way until i learn something... > >collier > whoa, I know that guy! He spent a semester at cnmat, and did a lot of work with stuff at g-wiz. One dsp box was the processing part of the infinity guitar synth we were developing. There were six-eight of them around g-wiz when I left, I think cnmat rescued them from oblivion at some point. It handled six audio channels in two dsp processors. I never actually heard any of the things he did with it, unfortunately. How is he? kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 OEM Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:06:09 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 22:35:37 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEU4O-0006N5-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 22:35:36 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961019054056.0074f170@xenon.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@xenon.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 22:40:56 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: Loopy Atmospheres Resent-Message-ID: <"yP5NQ.A.U8F.DiGay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/694 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 22:35:36 -0700 X-UIDL: 8415372bc5aa57651f49abb3329b83e0 At 05:33 PM 10/18/96 -0500, Paul wrote: >I would be interested in any saved discussions about the Vortex > Michael Peters recently html-ized it all for me, I'll have it in the archive section of the web site this weekend. kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 OEM Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:06:10 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 18 22:44:33 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEUD3-0006dl-00; Fri, 18 Oct 1996 22:44:33 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961019054952.00738530@xenon.chromatic.com> X-Sender: kflint@xenon.chromatic.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 22:49:52 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Kim Flint Subject: Re: exchanging ideas/PROPOSAL Resent-Message-ID: <"ce2vRB.A.BMG.eqGay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/695 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 22:44:33 -0700 X-UIDL: 066f8511b1f6696f31ec2d8ded5fd455 At 04:58 PM 10/18/96 -0700, Dan wrote: >hi folks, > ><><><><><><><><>< >at this point i'd like to propose the following opportunities: > >a similar survey to looperdom involving our thoughts/methods, personal >feelings, etc. on looping/playing/music/life/theuniverse/everything. > >inclusion of sound files (DISK SPACE IS NOT A LIMITATION or so i've been >told - i can't imagine what they'll say if i show up with 30 megs of >.wavs) for general appreciation. > >anything else anyone would like to do... i've access to the U of A's >multi-quadrillion dollar media arts lab (not that i know how to use the >stuff, but that i could probably do lots of neat tricks) > >the big thing i'd like to keep in mind is that i've got a lot of disk >space available. i can easily harbor sound files of loop work. > >let me know if anyone has ideas, advancements, etc. thanks. > >**************************************************************** >** Dan Howarth, History/Music, University of Arizona, Tucson ** >** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction) ** >**************************************************************** > hey, this would solve the problem of placing audio files on the Looper's Delight page! I've got 20MB there, which can be expanded for $. That can hold a reasonable amount of audio data, but maybe not enough to have a good representation of everybody who would like to have their music on it. But maybe another idea would be to have links from people's bio's on the LD site to the actual sound files on your site. Would that work? You could maybe help out the less digitally enabled to get their audio into a more netable form. kim _______________________________________________________ Kim Flint 408-752-9284 OEM Engineering kflint@chromatic.com Chromatic Research From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:06:12 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 00:36:29 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEVxM-0001XE-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 00:36:28 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 00:37:08 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: exchanging ideas/PROPOSAL In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19961019054952.00738530@xenon.chromatic.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"MWKWuD.A.LaB.aTIay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/696 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 00:36:28 -0700 X-UIDL: 104e0a9ac79d38b3ddb2e76c0bcdd0c3 > hey, this would solve the problem of placing audio files on the Looper's > Delight page! I've got 20MB there, which can be expanded for $. That can > hold a reasonable amount of audio data, but maybe not enough to have a good > representation of everybody who would like to have their music on it. But > maybe another idea would be to have links from people's bio's on the LD site > to the actual sound files on your site. Would that work? You could maybe > help out the less digitally enabled to get their audio into a more netable form. > > kim > this sounds good to me. how many of us are interested in contributing recordings/stuff? we can link off of the LD to the individual files at my site, but i'll (for the sake of my grade) also set up a page of the people and files at my end. who's interested? From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 01:06:13 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 01:06:05 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEWQ0-00029i-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 01:06:04 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 01:04:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610190804.BAA22338@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Analog Echoplex Resent-Message-ID: <"V1YP1.A.a_B.OvIay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/697 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 01:06:04 -0700 X-UIDL: 202dacf66357ec0013325b83c4ab990a >As far as differences between the two units, I'd say the tape echoplex >compares to the digital pro unit in roughly the same way that a biplane >compares to a stealth fighter. Because biplanes have so much more style? 8-) From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 02:44:39 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 01:12:30 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEWWD-0002K0-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 01:12:29 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 01:10:10 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: exchanging ideas/PROPOSAL Resent-Message-ID: <"THF-IB.A.fJC.M1Iay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/698 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 01:12:29 -0700 X-UIDL: 83c91a061888825b2156e167d75495a8 >> hey, this would solve the problem of placing audio files on the Looper's >> Delight page! I've got 20MB there, which can be expanded for $. That can >> hold a reasonable amount of audio data, but maybe not enough to have a good >> representation of everybody who would like to have their music on it. But >> maybe another idea would be to have links from people's bio's on the LD site >> to the actual sound files on your site. Would that work? You could maybe >> help out the less digitally enabled to get their audio into a more >>netable form. >> >> kim >> > >this sounds good to me. how many of us are interested in contributing >recordings/stuff? we can link off of the LD to the individual files at my >site, but i'll (for the sake of my grade) also set up a page of the people >and files at my end. > >who's interested? One question, how permanent is this? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:15:44 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 04:42:38 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEZnZ-0003Pr-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 04:42:37 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 07:40:47 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961019074044_1146028176@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: lobbying for upgrades. Resent-Message-ID: <"UoYvR.A.pJD.95Lay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/699 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 04:42:37 -0700 X-UIDL: 7f5f0fd2b695fe08d587325ec58159e7 In a message dated 96-10-18 19:13:27 EDT, you write: > > > > >What did you want to lobby these guys for/about? > > > >David Kirkdoffer > > > To see if support for further development of looping devices would be > possible ... something on the order of Jamman II oar software/hardware > updates > > Paul > I suspect the most effective encouragement Oberheim and Lexicon would take notice of is increased sales for looping devices. So, if Lexicon's JamMan is out of production (more's the pity), then maybe a steady stream of orders for the Echoplex or the Boomerang or other loopers can save those pieces of hardware. David Kirkdorffer From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:15:46 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 04:42:47 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEZni-0003QH-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 04:42:46 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 07:40:58 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961019074057_1347149200@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Transcribing Loops. Resent-Message-ID: <"AaOdHB.A.bKD.H6Lay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/700 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 04:42:46 -0700 X-UIDL: d782b95e045b4e09ec442d75ad7895b7 I'm interested in scoring/transcribing loops I create. I have an Echoplex. So three questions: 1) Is there software out there that could understand a midi dump of a loop? 2) Better yet, is there software available that can understand a cassette of a performance? 3) A midi-guitar set-up would presumably interface with some software that could transcribe what I play, as I play it. Does anyone have any software recommendations? David Kirkdorffer From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:15:47 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 06:07:28 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEb7f-0004Ox-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 06:07:27 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 09:10:36 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Loopy Atmospheres Resent-Message-ID: <"t7M7aC.A.aGE.dJNay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/701 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 06:07:27 -0700 X-UIDL: 29723af8c3f9b4a0d0274bc5f2baaaeb >At 05:33 PM 10/18/96 -0500, Paul wrote: >>I would be interested in any saved discussions about the Vortex >> > >Michael Peters recently html-ized it all for me, I'll have it in the archive >section of the web site this weekend. > >kim >_______________________________________________________ Sorry to bother you on this Kim ... but where is the web site? Paul From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:15:49 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 06:13:27 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEbDS-0004WP-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 06:13:26 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 09:16:44 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: lobbying for upgrades. Resent-Message-ID: <"rDQi1B.A.BNE.NPNay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/702 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 06:13:26 -0700 X-UIDL: e5580d4f78bd94e191935cdd4a1318e0 >In a message dated 96-10-18 19:13:27 EDT, you write: > >> >> > >> >What did you want to lobby these guys for/about? >> > >> >David Kirkdoffer >> >> >> To see if support for further development of looping devices would be >> possible ... something on the order of Jamman II oar software/hardware >> updates >> >> Paul >> > >I suspect the most effective encouragement Oberheim and Lexicon would take >notice of is increased sales for looping devices. > >So, if Lexicon's JamMan is out of production (more's the pity), then maybe a >steady stream of orders for the Echoplex or the Boomerang or other loopers >can save those pieces of hardware. > >David Kirkdorffer My bassist is interested in a looping device so I was considering (believe it or not) in purchasing the Echoplex and selling him my Jamman. Any word on theRoland unit? Even though you guys worry me about the Oberheim I believe you when you talk about its increased capabilities. By the way does it have the tap feature of the Jam and in addition can you dial in in seconds, the length of a loop? Paul From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:15:50 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 07:51:01 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEcjr-00066D-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 07:50:59 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 07:44:59 -0700 Message-Id: <199610191444.HAA29105@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: God bless you dave Stagner Resent-Message-ID: <"d2PONC.A.qrF.sqOay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/703 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 07:50:59 -0700 X-UIDL: c0de8541c299f31ea1b6094ef4544376 LOOPER WARS: Paul P Said: >> Fine then ... then let's call this the Echoplex Users Group because if the >> bulk of you use it, and have nothing to talk about other than >> idiosyncracies of the box, then let's not advertise this as a loopers >> page.... < SNIP > Dave Stagner Said: >> >> ENOUGH ALREADY > >Could we *please* lighten up a little here? There are a number of >people here trying to make music with a rare, unusual, and complex >instrument with virtually no support from the manufacturer. Suddenly, >they have free and unfettered access to two f the designers, and many >problems are getting cleared up. You should be happy for them for >growing as musicians, not getting irritated for having a discussion >you're not engrossed in. > >If you don't want to read about it, don't read anything with >"Echoplex" in the subject. Is it that hard? Between personal >interest and professional mailing lists, I receive 100-200 pieces of >email a day at two accounts, most of which is uninteresting to me. >The delete key is your friend. Killfiles are even more of a friend, >if you have a mail program that supports them. > >If you're not happy with the subject, feel free to introduce another >one. One of the benefits of mailing lists is that they happily >support more than one thread of conversation at a time. If the >Echoplex doesn't interest you, what does? We have had numerous >musical and highly abstract threads here, and technical discussion for >other devices like compressors and the Vortex as well. > >Please, don't yell at people for discussing something that is >interesting and useful to them. We are all different here. If we >weren't we'd be on some other mailing list debating the virtues of >Yngwie Malmsteen or Abba. > >-dave and now dave at studio seventeen says: dave- i agree with you here. let's not be like the other lists. please let's try to be a bit more enlightented. we ARE an unusual community of musicians who all have a specialty (looping) that involves the use of high technology, which has GLITCHES. what if suddenly, they find that all JAMMEN between serial numbers 2017 and 3034 have an intermittent thermal problem that shuts down the output for two seconds randomly? and you are serial number 3017... as we saw with Andre, the people on looper's-delight rallied round to help. as we would help anyone. i happen to have an echoplex, and i spend hours reading all about Jam Man and Vortex, neither of which I have. But I'm LEARNING about all these different tools, the differences between them, their pros their cons......that's what this is all about! in my mind, on No list, is any subject OFF-TOPIC. granted it can be annoying when people get so far off the mark as to the topic bearing no relation to the list, but if it's that bad, you can always unsubscribe. i actually did this once: joined a list for a great band I really like. and there was almost no discussion of the band-just things like "my worst five albums"...completely pointless. so i unsubscribed. we here have never APPROACHED that sorry state, and I hope we never do. CONVERSELY, I really am enjoying some of the wild philosophical/musical discussions that go on here (why am I suddenly thinking of MATTHIAS?? :), because not only do we represent different kinds of looping using different looping tools, but also a wide and fascinating array of musicaal TASTES. most loopers seem to like real quality music, and i'm sure i will end up hearing some great stuff as a result of people mentioning their favourite artists here. and now, back to our regular programming... dave at 17 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * You can't teach ducks to dance... * * * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:15:52 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 08:05:34 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEcxx-0006Pc-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 08:05:33 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 07:59:34 -0700 Message-Id: <199610191459.HAA29125@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: live performance thread Resent-Message-ID: <"3kxUCD.A._9F.X4Oay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/704 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 08:05:33 -0700 X-UIDL: ce05ffbe3e6fd73674f1fdbacf75de2e ********Andre's questions are all excellent********* I've had the same reaction (the guitar that plays itself) and laughter...but I actually ENJOY setting the guitar down on it's stand and then walking OUT OF THE ROOM with the piece still going. All this can do is make people THINK. (one hopes). and indeed the comment about Fripp entering one or two notes into his loop and then just turning knobs is totally true, i've seen him do this several times. i personally don't mind, as long as the loop is interesting. some loops require a lot of input, but sometimes it's just as appropriate to make an 8 or ten second loop, with one or two quick overdubs...and then listen to it for twenty minutes. or change the "room" it's in... from now on, my plan for performance is to be as much as possible totally on the fly. i will in no way worry that "visually" i might be viewed as just turning knobs or "fiddling", but will concern myself with what's appropriate for the loop at hand. i'm also considering no rehearsing whatsoever, as a test to the nature of total improvisation. the most structure i might input would be a few sound samples from CDs to provide sonic variance from the ebow and synth. that would be about it. IMO, i find it interesting to SEE music created in a very non-traditional fashion. and in the end, SOUND is what music is about. i never worry about what the neighbours think. perhaps if enough of us play these "magic" guitars people will get used to the visual aspect. dave at 17 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * You can't teach ducks to dance... * * * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:15:54 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 08:35:10 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEdQb-0006zy-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 08:35:09 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 11:33:17 -0400 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961019113316_214458334@emout17.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: exchanging ideas/PROPOSAL Resent-Message-ID: <"mvXQNB.A.EiG.7TPay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/705 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 08:35:09 -0700 X-UIDL: a064d082d456360af7265246bd921824 > this sounds good to me. how many of us are > interested in contributing recordings/stuff? > we can link off of the LD to the individual > files at my site, but i'll (for the sake of my > grade) also set up a page of the people and > files at my end. > who's interested? Count me in. From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:15:55 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 08:51:25 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEdgK-0007P3-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 08:51:24 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 08:42:03 -0700 Message-Id: <199610191542.IAA29251@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: Re: Locatons for looping. Resent-Message-ID: <"PIouR.A.15G.EjPay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/706 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 08:51:24 -0700 X-UIDL: f6376861530d2bb45432d951cd3eb029 At 11:17 AM 10/18/96 -0400, you wrote: >Hope about places like Borders bookshops? > as with coffeehouses, (I find) Borders is not that responsive. I spent about two months trying to get a slot, and they just kept putting me off. i have a feeling that if I'd said I sing folk songs or that I sound just like neil young i would have been in immediately. there is antipathy for electric guitarists for some reason, and solo electric ambient looping guitarists are (apparently) too strange for most coffeehouse/bookstore gigs. funny thing is, if you can get someone to allow a performance...people really like it! the idea someone mentioned of offices / atriums is not so farfecthed. most people want to be "actively" entertained or hear their "favorite songs". they only understand if the man strumming the guitar sings a song they can "relate to". what we loopers do is SO different, that i find we must look at a whole different set of performance possibilities. i am still targeting some coffeehouses, but so far the only luck i've had is from a new venture that has internet at their cafe. since this was high tech-ish, i spoke to the owner at length about what i do, and we will be setting something up in a few weeks' time. but for other venues, my next logical step is to approach art galleries, restaurants....office parks...anywhere where an "installation" style "performance" would be more suitable. you will never be able to loop in a crowded smoky bar. no one will listen. you can't open for the local prog band...no one will listen. so we must look at some alternatives. several excellent ideas have been presented! dave at seventeen 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * You can't teach ducks to dance... * * * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:15:56 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 11:38:50 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEgIL-0004Gw-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 11:38:49 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 11:32:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199610191832.LAA29896@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: count me in Resent-Message-ID: <"V-u1yB.A.Q9D.BASay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/707 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 11:38:49 -0700 X-UIDL: ac63738083a0a8e5f7f44455dc656672 >this sounds good to me. how many of us are interested in contributing >recordings/stuff? we can link off of the LD to the individual files at my >site, but i'll (for the sake of my grade) also set up a page of the people >and files at my end. > >who's interested? > > i'd love to have access to such a page, would gladly contribute...it is quite eye-opening to hear the work of the people on the list, and i'm hoping to hear more... dave at seventeen 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * You can't teach ducks to dance... * * * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:15:58 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 13:21:16 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEhtT-0007Y6-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:21:15 -0700 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199610192020.NAA29478@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: When? Where? To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:20:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19961019053808.00731a74@xenon.chromatic.com> from "Kim Flint" at Oct 18, 96 10:38:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"P-ugBC.A.tBH.7fTay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/708 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:21:15 -0700 X-UIDL: 4a2b595a7ba5192bc3425d118eab8e0f > whoa, I know that guy! He spent a semester at cnmat, and did a lot of work > with stuff at g-wiz. One dsp box was the processing part of the infinity > guitar synth we were developing. There were six-eight of them around g-wiz > when I left, I think cnmat rescued them from oblivion at some point. It > handled six audio channels in two dsp processors. I never actually heard any > of the things he did with it, unfortunately. How is he? > > kim > _______________________________________________________ > Kim Flint 408-752-9284 > OEM Engineering kflint@chromatic.com > Chromatic Research I wonder what happened to the Infinity guitar. I guess it's still cooking in someone's lab? Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:15:59 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 13:26:30 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEhyX-0007nd-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:26:29 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:23:24 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: exchanging ideas/PROPOSAL In-Reply-To: <961019113316_214458334@emout17.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"TZ8O-D.A.6QH.IlTay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/709 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:26:29 -0700 X-UIDL: aaf4bcc882733d584e187295c19b60fe On Sat, 19 Oct 1996 KILLINFO@aol.com wrote: > > this sounds good to me. how many of us are > > interested in contributing recordings/stuff? > > we can link off of the LD to the individual > > files at my site, but i'll (for the sake of my > > grade) also set up a page of the people and > > files at my end. > > > who's interested? > > Count me in. Same here. From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:16:22 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 13:43:43 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEiFB-0000uC-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:43:41 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:38:47 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Locatons for looping. In-Reply-To: <199610191542.IAA29251@barley.adnc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"9pqLjB.A.Fo.3zTay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/721 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:43:41 -0700 X-UIDL: 2f3d029c74f0c409d0602f62fff7c812 On Sat, 19 Oct 1996, studio seventeen productions wrote: > but for other venues, my next logical step is to approach art galleries, > restaurants....office parks...anywhere where an "installation" style > "performance" would be more suitable. > > you will never be able to loop in a crowded smoky bar. no one will listen. > you can't open for the local prog band...no one will listen. The first looping gig I ever played was a pretty bizarre one, about a week after I got my Echoplex; I was set up next to the beer line at the Cal Arts Halloween party last year. This wasn't some git-together in the dorm basement type thing; the school approves a $15,000 to $20,000 budget each year, a sizable amount of which goes towards alcohol procurement. (They purchased 25 kegs for the five-hour party and had to get more in the middle when they ran out prematurely). My gig was basically setting up at the side of the room where the kegs were and making a lot of noise. Given my location, I had what you might call a captive audience, as there was a *long* line for the kegs. The funny thing was that people were actually very much into the music. At one point I saw some folks (albiet in states of less than complete sobriety) doing some sort of wierd interpretive dance to a particularly ambient loop that was set up. Another guy kneeled down between the stereo speakers and just blissed out for a couple of minutes. One or two people came up and asked to play a few notes. (They did not find consummation for these wishes). It was an interesting gig, because I could get away with soloing over a one-bar percussion loop and drone line for half an hour with no problems (every guitarist's secret dream, right? ;} ), or put the thing down and check out the rest of the party while the music went on. One guy actually felt that the sort of abstract music I was playing was good music for people in a line to listen to, since it didn't reinforce the sense of "Oh Hell, I've been waiting in line for fifteen minutes!" sense that a conventional series of tunes might instill. I had a great time -- up until somebody sloshed beer on the mixing console. And to this day, I *still* run into people who'll say, "Oh, yeah, man, I saw you at the Halloween party last year!" A lot of people assumed that I was playing to some tapes, but that's almost more of a compliment than anything else. So there's an example of a noisy, beer-soaked, rowdy performance environment where looping can work. I just hope I can get some plastic bags to cover the mixer next time... --Andre From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:16:23 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 13:44:13 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEiFg-0000x6-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:44:12 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:40:52 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Another griper knees at the Oberheim Shrine In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"tJ_DD.A.p0.s1Tay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/722 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:44:12 -0700 X-UIDL: 29e6f2b668d4e8e0d8435aed54f8af06 On Sat, 19 Oct 1996, Matthias wrote: > Andre on his knees :-) : WOAH!!! I like the thing, man, but let's not git outta hand here! --Andre on his feet From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:16:25 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 13:45:38 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEiH3-00011W-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:45:37 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: ccnet3.ccnet.com: dmic27 owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:44:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Michael X-Sender: dmic27@ccnet3 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: exchanging ideas/PROPOSAL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"44G4H.A.46.I3Tay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/723 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:45:37 -0700 X-UIDL: 48ba57bac9e50f1c0409e2166eaa953c On Sat, 19 Oct 1996, Dan Howarth wrote: > this sounds good to me. how many of us are interested in contributing > recordings/stuff? we can link off of the LD to the individual files at my > site, but i'll (for the sake of my grade) also set up a page of the people > and files at my end. > > who's interested? Hello, Count me in also. Doug Michael http://www.ccnet.com/~dmic27 From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:16:05 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 13:39:08 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEiAl-0000O0-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:39:07 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 18:42:51 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Another griper knees at the Oberheim Shrine Resent-Message-ID: <"uwqPXB.A.TT.-wTay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/711 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:39:07 -0700 X-UIDL: 2a5b745ff9b73c4ebbe99fdc2b1e0b94 Andre on his knees :-) : >For instance, the noise gate in the Plex is designed to work with the Undo >feature, to make sure that miroscopic bits of background noise don't fill >up the "undo que" in the unit's memory. Undo isn't even an option on the >Lexicon. Thats it! Plus there is a fundamental difference internally: The JamMan plays from the beginning of the memory to the end of the loop and then jumps back to the beginning of the memory. This is the structure of a sampler and makes those functions easy. The Plex circles around the whole memory constantly like a tape loop or a digital delay. This fascilitates features like Multiply and Undo a lot but difficults the sampling side. We had to introduce loads of markers that run together with the sound to indicate where we have to jump to in case of +Mute-Undo+ for example. Imagine +Reverse+ or +Next-Multiply+ %-/ ! >Ultimately you should spend as much time as possible with a Plex and see >if it agrees with you. Lexicon's a great company (in some ways I'm >enjoying the looping features on the Vortex even more than on the >Oberheim!), and they seem to have their act together quite a bit more as >far as having a clue as to what to do with a product (I'd guess this is >the main reason that JamMan users seem to outnumber Echoplex users by a >pretty considerable ratio. Can't buy the thing if you can't find it...) >But in terms of depth and flexibility, you can't beat the Oberheim. Lets dream of a looper on the PCM80 quality level with Lexicons care with distribution and service! Thanks for all the flowers! Lets open some space for the JamMan users and fundamental questions. Matthias From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:16:06 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 13:39:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEiAr-0000Og-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:39:13 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 18:42:59 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Bug or Feature -- anyone else experience this? Resent-Message-ID: <"SQYI-B.A.qS.5wTay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/710 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:39:13 -0700 X-UIDL: 9dc6b8a19348445ed7e3f4a05be8619e >>The trouble is when I bring in the note quietly, my Echoplex -- while passing >>the sound to my amp -- waits until there is enough gain to RECORD it so the >>beginning of the sound seems to be clipped-off. True. This feature is clearly made to create rythmic loops. (is it? I never use it) >>Now I know there IS a very cool feature to turn RECORD on when a note is >>played and the "trigger-gain-sensitivity" can be set. I've used it once or >>twice. But I turned this feature off. In fact, I've RESET the machine twice >>to make sure I've turned it off. > >This is the same noisegate thing that caused Andre his weekend of >suffering. The parameter called "threshold" is only for starting a record >when you actually start playing. The noisegate is different. It's on all >the time and has nothing to do with the "threshold" setting. The noisegate >is there to make Undo a much more usable function, so that each press of >Undo takes away a real overdub rather than some unintentional noise. It >also keeps the echoplex from squandering its memory. > >Matthias and I have discussed ways to make the noisegate smarter, as well >as adding a parameter for it. Its tricky, since the user can cause himself >troubles with the undo function without realizing it. Well, so far the parameter is implemented in the update. A higher "threshold" setting might actually help to keep the other musicians out of the loop in a live setup. But as Kim sais, it was made for +Undo+, for AutoUndo exactly. It is the internal function that improves +Undo+ in that its possible to undo the last layer even after infinite listening to the unmodified loop. All that complaints about noisegate and the difficulty to press UNDO in the right moment makes me want to go back to the first software release of the LOOP delay where +Undo+ allways jumped back to the last time arround even if nothing changed. There were no complaints then and the soft was a lot simpler. Matthias From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:16:11 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 13:41:59 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEiDN-0000hj-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:41:49 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 18:43:44 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Analog Echoplex Resent-Message-ID: <"3jnF7.A.5Y.6xTay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/713 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:41:49 -0700 X-UIDL: 131d147fee00f5e6363ce46fbb443e34 Olivier asked >Someone could tell me how long a delay could offer an analog echoplex, a >roland space echo???? There are 3 heads for coarse selection and multiple reflections. On the most distant head you get about half a second if I remember right. Since you can control the speed of the motor for time adjustment, sound quality drops with longer time. It might be interesting to modify the position of the heads and switch off the writing so you get infinite long loops. I think even reverse could be possible by inverting motor direction. At a higher speed, the quality was quite good. Matthias From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:16:18 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 13:42:52 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEiEH-0000nm-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:42:45 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 18:43:49 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time Resent-Message-ID: <"2KdSBD.A.Lf.ryTay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/719 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:42:45 -0700 X-UIDL: a264ceadf0ac08964d9d2ed5f8f17a6a Andre: >> As I'm two weeks away from my own solo looping performance, I'm >> thinking about the sheer performance environment aspect, and how the >> visual/mechanical aspects of looping can affect the audience's perception >> of the music. Anyone have any thoughts on any of the above? >> Jon: >I'm three weeks away from a series of live looping shows. I've been >seeking out performance opportunities that avoid a "staged" performance. >I'm going to be playing in several office buildings, in atrium lobbies. >I'll be set up off to the side, filling the space with sound, and not >expecting to be a visual focal point for the audience (the audience will >most likely be just passing through anyway). I'm thinking it will be >somewhere between performance and installation. In regards to the >audience's perception, we'll have to wait and see. > I played on the galary of Salvador intercity bus station. Amazing clima. Most people did not even notice I was there, just closed the eyes, waiting. Others stopped and even missed the bus and even said it was worth it (there is no refund of the fair here!). I played about 5 hours in total, about a year ago, and still keep meeting people saying: "oh you are the one that made this sound in the Rodoviaria!" I tried several times in bars and restaurants and wont do it again. Recently it worked though with a "art dinner": There was a lecture about "holistic comunication", then I gave some light introduction and then eveybody enjoyed an incredible chinese veg buffet. Then everybody made himself comftable and we switched off the light and I started real sound and "the saints came down" (common expression here, due to the popular african rituals). Another old idea is to create a healthy clima in Hospitals... Matthias From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:16:10 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 13:41:22 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEiCm-0000dS-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:41:12 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 18:43:55 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Are you tired of the list? Resent-Message-ID: <"_kXYYB.A.vX.wxTay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/712 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:41:12 -0700 X-UIDL: 1220994e346694e64ea645b7c472c845 >sticks and stones MATTHIAS Sorry, I do not know that expression >... just trying to be helpful here and offering >what I think is/was valid comment. Rather explosive, but since it seams that nobody got hurt... Go ahead Matthias From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:16:12 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 13:42:18 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEiDe-0000ji-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:42:06 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 18:44:01 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: loop manufacturers Resent-Message-ID: <"BufytB.A.hZ.-xTay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/714 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:42:06 -0700 X-UIDL: 00f3dc626bd206b2bfdef4f169a444f5 >At 10:16 PM 10/17/96 -0500, Paul wrote: >>If I was sitting on the fence, and knew that Oberheim was to abandon the >>Echoplex, why would you buy something with as many glitches and you all >>havementioned. It is clear that with the market share of the Jamman and a >>few knudges, software/hardware updates and development are more possible >>>>by Lex. > >Sorry Paul, Lexicon abandoned the Jamman some time ago. I think they still >sell them, but so far as I know, there are no upgrades or Jamman II's on the >horizon. Jon Durant has lamented this for some time, and some well known >endorsers have jumped ship as a result. To be fair: this probably means that Lex still gives full assistance in terms of service, while Oberheim might even close down completely. >Software upgrades are more likely with the Echoplex actually, because >Matthias owns and develops the software, Gibson just licenses it. If >anything, Oberheim's continued existence makes it a bit harder for the >upgrade to happen since some old contract problems need to be resolved >first. Oberheim's demise would mean Matthias would be free to sell it to >whoever he likes. However, Oberheim's demise would mean that the number of >echoplex units on the earth would remain finite for the forseeable future. > >So things don't look rosy in any direction, really. > >I want to join Jon Durant's ongoing call to action about this. There is very >little support at any manufacturer for looping products. The ones that tried >have lost money and gave up quickly. A big part of the reason for this is >that there has never been any coherent community of users to demand >products, or for manufacturers to market their product to. > >Hopefully this list can be the beginnings of such a community. I hope we can >discuss and develop the art here, get others interested in listening and >creating loop music, and consequently be better able to encourage >manufacturers to create the sorts of products that are useful to us. > >And thanks for kicking the list out of that tedious hardware discussion. I >get bored with that sort of thing too, since I've been doing it for a living >for quite some time now. The more abstracted, philosophical discussions are >much more interesting to me. Why we use the tool, what we use it for, rather >than the tool itself. There is certainly room for tool discussions here, and >it is relevent since looping is a hardware dependant art, but if that's all >we do it gets a bit dull. Personally I would have chosen a more positive >approach to the problem, but your way seems to have worked. Very exactly this, Kim. Thank you. Matthias From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:16:20 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 13:43:04 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEiER-0000p1-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:42:55 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 18:44:07 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: digital vs analog? Resent-Message-ID: <"xoz4-.A.Dd.cyTay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/717 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:42:55 -0700 X-UIDL: c1e22218a8c18703eecd4577d85004a3 Olivier said >A lot of people say "I gotta say I *hate* the >cold, lifeless sound of most digital processors". That's funny, because >i've challenged a lot of so-called musician, self-appointed golden ears, >after public statement about digital coldness to make a blind test at my >home. Some answered positively. None in a blind test could clearly >identify digital from a good analog (TDK cassette as well as 1/2 inch >tape)... > >So, just take back our toys, and get back to work... > I liked that one, Olivier. Lets observe what people really can hear and where the Quality really lies. The problem is that there is a Quality which is only noted after some time. The first 10 minutes of a digital piano for example, I find marvelous, but after an hour its getting so tiring that I prefer an old out of tune real one. Builders of tube Hifi amps told me the same thing: "Use it a whole day if you want to know about tube Quality" But I doubt that someone can hear whether the sound passed once through a good 16 digital system or not. Matthias From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:16:13 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 13:42:32 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEiDq-0000l7-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:42:18 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 18:44:12 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: When stuck -- how I create loops / ideas Resent-Message-ID: <"LgsmOD.A.1a.IyTay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/715 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:42:18 -0700 X-UIDL: 6d742ff9f323889bdb26fae319c95172 David Kirkdorffer confesses :-) >I have no musical trainning (typo intended!!), so when I'm stuck for >creativity, I use a "device" or "concept" to get some sound rolling. For >example: Without any such "device" or "concept" you get some sound rolling? >1) using only "White" notes >2) spelling musical words with a seven letter alphabet (ABACAB...DUG) >3) creating only acending or descending melody lines >4) not using a particular fret-range. i.e. 3-12 > >The biggest advantage to the approach I've found is that I worry about >"fulfilling the concept" and don't get hung-up on "is what I'm playing any >good" just long enough that something can be born. Too much attention to can >get in the way. Pretty much my wave. How many people in the world would have this same talent and desire to play (closer in the original sense, here, if I understand you right) like you do? You think anyone can do it? Could it be a wave like Karaoke? I observed children liking it a lot. >In fact, it could be fun to hear the output from 10 loopists all using the >same concept. >But then that's no different than listening to 10 different love songs I >suppose. Sisi, very different. Lets do it! At NAMM, for example ??? Matthias From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:16:16 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 13:42:50 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEiEG-0000nk-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:42:44 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 18:44:22 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time Resent-Message-ID: <"OlGol.A.-d.kyTay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/718 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:42:44 -0700 X-UIDL: 74df017ff752078fa35bbda891b1ceab Dave Trenkel said: >It hasn't worked very well >for looping grooves or bass lines to solo over, because without really >great monitoring, virtually non-existant in the alt-rock clubs and >galleries we play, our drummer can't stay in sync with the loops. Does that mean you use a separate system for bass and loop, or does the drummer not hear the direct bass either and you play along with him? Or can he *feel* your groove, when you play it, but not when it comes from the loop? I am interested in that because it should work somehow. We talk a lot about dedicated loop music, but the tecnology should also serve as an aid for any music. Matthias From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:16:15 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 13:42:49 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEiEA-0000n6-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:42:38 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 18:44:26 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: "This thing should not exist!" or: Pain through Quadrophonics Resent-Message-ID: <"L_t_b.A.-c.byTay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/716 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:42:38 -0700 X-UIDL: 934e081ced6321151bd22243f0e9d14a >create a >score with this device to play the space in a given room. you can turn up the >feedback all the way and not have your reverb feed back. Sorry, Collier, not understood Matthias From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:16:19 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 13:43:00 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEiEP-0000om-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:42:53 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 18:44:31 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: When? Where? Resent-Message-ID: <"TRqA0.A.bf.tyTay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/720 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 13:42:53 -0700 X-UIDL: f424ae38c017dacee46c44873c0a59e9 >Matthias you know him, did you ever see this >kinda work? sorry all, I'm kinda hung up on this design and build my own >effects thread right now. and will stay that way until i learn something... Just saw a video of him playing guitar through a Lightning controlled (wand on the neck) Eventide. Liked it. M From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:16:26 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 15:18:43 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEjj6-00044o-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 15:18:40 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 18:16:42 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961019181641_1246661487@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: does hi volume change your perormance? Resent-Message-ID: <"aeB3b.A.XvD.LOVay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/724 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 15:18:40 -0700 X-UIDL: 386c5deb8af714a4cbc7dcc446fba4ad In a message dated 96-10-19 11:51:22 EDT, you write: > > you will never be able to loop in a crowded smoky bar. no one will listen. > you can't open for the local prog band...no one will listen. I'm trying to get gigs at regular rock venues. I'm positively disposed to the outcome too! Getting gigs in clubs has to do with more than just the sound of the music. The real attraction to me is to here these loops I create at ungodly volumes. All things being equal, does anyone else find the VOLUME of theperformance changes the improv-loops you create? David Kirkdorffer From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:16:27 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 15:19:52 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEjkE-0004C8-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 15:19:50 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 18:17:13 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961019181712_1414305520@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Longer Loops from Rplnd Space Echo Resent-Message-ID: <"6V9p_C.A.8xD.rOVay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/725 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 15:19:50 -0700 X-UIDL: d93f9333e53023db24215dd53ce1a22e In a message dated 96-10-19 16:41:12 EDT, you write: > It might be interesting to modify the position of > the heads and switch off the writing so you get infinite long loops. I > think even reverse could be possible by inverting motor direction. > At a higher speed, the quality was quite good. > > Matthias > I have a friend who has added a switch to his Roland Space Echo to turn off the record head. Further, he has moved the last head and placed it right infront of the record head for maximum lopping length. So these odifications certenlay are possible if you have a Roland Space Echo and want to derive longer loops. David Kirkdorffer From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:16:31 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 15:19:55 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEjkF-0004CE-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 15:19:51 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 18:17:14 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961019181713_1514337264@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Loopy Locations Resent-Message-ID: <"dPtByC.A.yzD.3OVay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/728 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 15:19:51 -0700 X-UIDL: b77cac258b72980d57695cd4db897334 In a message dated 96-10-19 16:42:17 EDT, you write: > > Another old idea is to create a healthy clima in Hospitals... > > Matthias I'm not sure if my loops are suitably restfull. I imagine needing a more mentally deranged crowd. Excellent, I can see the flyer now -- "Loops for the Loopy" 8-) David Kirkdorffer From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:16:28 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 15:19:55 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEjkG-0004CH-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 15:19:52 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 18:17:15 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961019181715_1644761328@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"aU0AL.A.fyD.uOVay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/726 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 15:19:52 -0700 X-UIDL: 8f242e4992e4cc65487498a2adbfa35b > On Sat, 19 Oct 1996, Dan Howarth wrote: > > > this sounds good to me. how many of us are interested in contributing > > recordings/stuff? we can link off of the LD to the individual files at my > > site, but i'll (for the sake of my grade) also set up a page of the people > > and files at my end. > > > > who's interested? > You know -- I think I remember while I subscribed to the Ambient Digest, a CD of material produced by the musicians on the list was created. I'd be interested in working to pull together such a project -- that is, working on a CD of Loopers-Delight subscribers loops. Imagine if a CD costs $2500 and 10 musicians divided 76minutes and the total cost... And we could call it Loopers-Delight! David Kirkdorffer From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 16:16:29 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 15:20:03 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEjkP-0004DP-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 15:20:01 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 18:17:16 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961019181709_1347196528@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Infinity Guitar Resent-Message-ID: <"JBsWmD.A.9yD.yOVay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/727 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 15:20:01 -0700 X-UIDL: 9bc2d6699b3afdbd52c685ca6d68681a In a message dated 96-10-19 16:21:27 EDT, you write: > > I wonder what happened to the Infinity guitar. I guess it's still cooking > in someone's lab? > > > Paolo Valladolid I never understood what "infinity guitar" is What is it? Any takers? David Kirkdorffer From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 22:10:56 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 17:27:37 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEljt-0000av-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 17:27:37 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 16:49:00 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: exchanging ideas/PROPOSAL Resent-Message-ID: <"qIg3-.A.Eh.HHXay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/729 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 17:27:37 -0700 X-UIDL: b1bff9f96ccef854919b7230211f0420 > >this sounds good to me. how many of us are interested in contributing >recordings/stuff? we can link off of the LD to the individual files at my >site, but i'll (for the sake of my grade) also set up a page of the people >and files at my end. > >who's interested? I have a brief piece I'd like to contribute. I could store it on my own web site though, http://www.peak.org/~improv/music.html ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 22:10:58 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 19:24:48 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEnZG-0003ba-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 19:24:46 -0700 From: Jon Morris Message-Id: <199610200223.VAA02480@beacon.moontower.com> Subject: Re: exchanging ideas/PROPOSAL To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 21:23:54 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "Dan Howarth" at Oct 18, 96 04:58:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"P8uR5B.A.xVD.C1Yay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/730 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 19:24:46 -0700 X-UIDL: e582a8ba20dda5195305347a629b706c > inclusion of sound files (DISK SPACE IS NOT A LIMITATION or so i've been > told - i can't imagine what they'll say if i show up with 30 megs of > .wavs) for general appreciation. > I'd like to submit some material, but I'd have to send a sorry old cassette. Is that ok? -Jon From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 22:11:02 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 21:34:30 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEpal-0006cM-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 21:34:27 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 02:38:02 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: lobbying for upgrades. Resent-Message-ID: <"GmPGe.A.PIG.Quaay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/731 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 21:34:27 -0700 X-UIDL: 18c6179aca18c3ce77df7a92f40cde70 >So, if Lexicon's JamMan is out of production (more's the pity), then maybe a >steady stream of orders for the Echoplex or the Boomerang or other loopers >can save those pieces of hardware. basically. But if the unit is not in the shops? From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 22:11:03 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 21:34:46 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEpb3-0006dx-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 21:34:45 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 02:38:08 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: lobbying for upgrades. Resent-Message-ID: <"urYt4C.A.WJG.euaay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/732 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 21:34:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 1a844ccb7fa80aec80557c55833bc3c0 Paul asks: >does it have the tap feature of the Jam and in addition can you dial in in >seconds, the length of a loop? No. Sometimes people ask that. What would that be god for? From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 22:11:06 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 21:35:16 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEpbX-0006fm-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 21:35:15 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 02:38:21 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Amplifiers Resent-Message-ID: <"ZMd7YC.A.HMG.Fvaay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/733 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 21:35:15 -0700 X-UIDL: a76dd2ecc4ce22562e47def86cc7f339 Clark, a while ago: >I was just thinking (i know, its a bad habit) since what is >being reccommended here for looping is a full range amp >system with a flat response how about a keyboard amp? This >way you could make loops with guitar and bass. Reasonable. A keyboard amp is a guitar amp with linear input and tweeter? > (or even keyboard, heaven forbid). :-) >There are plenty of mono kbd amps out there but i dont like >the prospect of having to use (read: lug around) two amps. >For this reason a stereo amp is key. What would that look like? An amp with two cabinets? Two active cabinets? That would be lighter than two amps? A preamp you do not really need, because you run through effects first. So why not use any power amp with two cabinets? From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 22:11:08 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 21:49:12 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEpp1-00076P-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 21:49:11 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 02:53:12 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"FuBJOD.A.foG.i8aay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/734 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 21:49:11 -0700 X-UIDL: 505aa67d6b65c9bf5776b348b7f15336 >I'd be interested in working to pull together such a project -- that is, >working on a CD of Loopers-Delight subscribers loops. > >Imagine if a CD costs $2500 and 10 musicians divided 76minutes and the total >cost... > >And we could call it Loopers-Delight! > >David Kirkdorffer Sure. I give my part. From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 23:01:39 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 22:13:21 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEqCN-00008a-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 22:13:19 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 22:10:35 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Transcribing Loops. Resent-Message-ID: <"wCsVxC.A.BC.1Sbay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/735 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 22:13:19 -0700 X-UIDL: f9ba366f923fc9c4b5fbbfbbb7d62a1f >I'm interested in scoring/transcribing loops I create. I have an Echoplex. > >So three questions: >1) Is there software out there that could understand a midi dump of a loop? I think there is commercial software that can take digital audio and transcribe it. I have no idea how well it works, or even who makes it. I just remember seeing a review once. There has been research on this subject for a long time in the academic community, I'm sure there are a variety of methods to do it. The echoplex wasn't really designed with the idea that people would be transferring the digital audio to their computers and editing it or whatever. (that sort of thing became a lot more popular in the years since the design was done) You can do it, but you have to put it through some filtering and a sample rate conversion first. Rather than messing around with midi sample dump and various dsp filters, I think it would be a lot easier for you to just record the audio out directly to hard disk and then run it through the transcribing software. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 23:01:36 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 22:13:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEqCJ-00008F-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 22:13:15 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 22:10:38 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Loopy Atmospheres Resent-Message-ID: <"VaVNWD.A.mC.5Sbay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/736 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 22:13:15 -0700 X-UIDL: f5ed3eb8e5c2b8cc2c147e53f92fa960 >>At 05:33 PM 10/18/96 -0500, Paul wrote: >>>I would be interested in any saved discussions about the Vortex >>> >> >>Michael Peters recently html-ized it all for me, I'll have it in the archive >>section of the web site this weekend. >> >>kim >>_______________________________________________________ > Sorry to bother you on this Kim ... but where is the web site? > >Paul Well, no wonder you were going on and on about us only ever talking about hardware! You really need to check out the archives on the web site and see some of the diverse discussions that took place before you joined the list. the url is: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html The web site is an ongoing project, being created by anyone who has something interesting to contribute to the loop knowledge base. A number of folks on the list have contributed some great articles, and there's more on the way. It's a collective effort, so any of you that want to take part please do! Even if you don't think you have anything to say, there's plenty of other stuff to be done. HTML coding, cgi/java scripts, graphics, researching info, making archives of the list posts, artist profiles, new page ideas, finding generous benefactors to help pay for it all, whatever. By working together we can create something really worthwhile! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 23:01:38 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 22:13:19 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEqCL-00008M-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 22:13:17 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 22:10:40 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Infinity Guitar Resent-Message-ID: <"EOD6ZD.A.FD.8Sbay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/737 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 22:13:17 -0700 X-UIDL: 57a64c4c6a2a9d6d1b4b39eb48a661ce >In a message dated 96-10-19 16:21:27 EDT, you write: > >> >> I wonder what happened to the Infinity guitar. I guess it's still cooking >> in someone's lab? >> >> >> Paolo Valladolid > >I never understood what "infinity guitar" is What is it? Any takers? > >David Kirkdorffer The Infinity was a guitar synthesizer project that we were developing at g-wiz, in conjunction with CNMAT. (Center for New Music and Audio Technologies, a research institute at UC Berkeley) The goal was to create a guitar synth that would be far, far beyond the lame junk that's available now. Rather than just figuring out what note you played and how loudly you played it, it actually analyzed HOW you played it. So you would get real timbral control over the synthesis, like a good guitar player has over the actual guitar sound. The timbral analysis would be used to control synthesizers that have much more expressive capabilities than sample-playback, like physical modeling or in our case, the additive/resynthesis techniques being developed at cnmat. Naturally, it used the ZIPI network/musical desciption language protocol that we were also developing. Personally, I hate guitar synthesizers. It's fun for two minutes while I play a note and say "golly, it comes out sounding like a digiridoo!" But then I notice myself getting bored and losing interest. The problem is that no matter how I play the note, the digiridoo, or tamborine, or whatever, sounds EXACTLY the same. All of the expressive techniques I've spent my whole life learning to do on guitar strings are totally filtered out. No thanks. The infinity was to actually use all the expressive control of the guitarist to control the synthesis, which I found quite exciting. Various greedy and stupid individuals saw the potential dollars in this, and began dickering about and tried to get it all for themselves. So naturally the whole thing got swallowed into a horrible legal black hole. The future of guitar didn't really come to a screeching halt, though, because in reality the infinity sucked. Years of development, lots of money, and the thing was no where near the aforementioned goals. It was poorly designed, with the basic architechture marred by all sorts of stupid engineering choices. Technology has passed it by; if someone were rich and foolish enough to restart that project, they would need to pretty much start over if they wanted to be anywhere near the current state of the art in audio processing. I think cnmat uses the prototypes for dsp processing. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 23:01:42 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 22:55:03 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEqqk-0001IQ-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 22:55:02 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 22:52:22 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: does hi volume change your perormance? Resent-Message-ID: <"F2NRSB.A.DJB.C6bay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/738 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 22:55:02 -0700 X-UIDL: 6e1b461ed17ba7f32b450750e99d4a4e >In a message dated 96-10-19 11:51:22 EDT, you write: > >> >> you will never be able to loop in a crowded smoky bar. no one will >listen. >> you can't open for the local prog band...no one will listen. > >I'm trying to get gigs at regular rock venues. I'm positively disposed to >the outcome too! Getting gigs in clubs has to do with more than just the >sound of the music. > >The real attraction to me is to here these loops I create at ungodly volumes. >All things being equal, does anyone else find the VOLUME of theperformance >changes the improv-loops you create? > >David Kirkdorffer huh? speak up! My neighbors are currently holding a rave, with dj's producing techno loops at steadily increasing volumes. I'm sitting here enjoying it quite a lot, and will be heading over soon. I'd rather be on that side of the wall when the pictures come flying off mine....besides, how often do you guys get to see great dj performances just by going next door? Not for everyone I imagine.... I for one, like volume. (with ear protection of course!) I grew up on a steady diet of the most aggressive music I could find, and it don't sound right if its not loud! Loud loops are fine, especially for dancing or for more aggressive styles. My playing often tends to be on the aggressive/angry/violent/harsh/rhythmic side of things where volume really gives it power. I'm also increasingly interested in dance styles, where the volume actually makes you feel the rhythm in your body and gives you the urge to dance and move. I can do the somn-ambient office atrium sort of thing, but my heart wouldn't be in it. I wouldn't be such a great choice anyway, since I'd almost certainly get subversive and start adding some rather inapprpriate elements. To me an interesting loop performance situation would be jamming with dj's and techno-technicians at some all night party. Lots of volume, heavy bass, light shows, strange videos going. wonder if its too late to drag my junk next door.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 23:01:41 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 22:54:59 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEqqg-0001I4-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 22:54:58 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 22:52:25 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: vortex archive Resent-Message-ID: <"hKC73B.A.aJB.F6bay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/739 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 22:54:58 -0700 X-UIDL: 8c322045dec0eceddfb64f28e9a583a1 The vortex archive is on the web page: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/archive/filtered/Vortex.html kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sat Oct 19 23:01:44 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 19 23:03:04 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEqyV-0001WC-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 23:03:03 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 23:00:37 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: lobbying for upgrades. Resent-Message-ID: <"uD5PLB.A._YB.wBcay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/740 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 23:03:03 -0700 X-UIDL: ea3a4cf53ed4b3e99ebaf4dc9c77d9d6 >>In a message dated 96-10-18 19:13:27 EDT, you write: >> >>> >>> > >>> >What did you want to lobby these guys for/about? >>> > >>> >David Kirkdoffer >>> >>> >>> To see if support for further development of looping devices would be >>> possible ... something on the order of Jamman II oar software/hardware >>> updates >>> >>> Paul >>> >> >>I suspect the most effective encouragement Oberheim and Lexicon would take >>notice of is increased sales for looping devices. >> >>So, if Lexicon's JamMan is out of production (more's the pity), then maybe a >>steady stream of orders for the Echoplex or the Boomerang or other loopers >>can save those pieces of hardware. >> >>David Kirkdorffer This is precisely the sort of language that the relevant powers speak. If we want to get continued interest from manufacturers in making loop products, they need to see ongoing sales. One way for that to happen is for us to generally popularize looping, and show others what loopers are and why they are fun to use. A very large number of Echoplex sales happen that way, because a user convinced his buddy to get one too. Performing with them shows people the possibilities. > >My bassist is interested in a looping device so I was considering (believe >it or not) in purchasing the Echoplex and selling him my Jamman. Any word >on theRoland unit? Even though you guys worry me about the Oberheim I >believe you when you talk about its increased capabilities. By the way >does it have the tap feature of the Jam and in addition can you dial in in >seconds, the length of a loop? > >Paul The tap feature, yes. You tap to start the delay recording, and tap again to define the end point of the loop. Extremely easy to figure out and use. You can't dial in a loop length though. If you need precise loop lengths, its usually because you need to sync to something else. Many things you might need to sync to can generate sync signals of some sort (including the plex). You can more accurately accomplish this sort of thing by actually using the sync features to lock up to other devices. Dialing in those numbers is sort of risky actually, because how accurate do think it really is? If there is a little bit of error, and the loop is repeated 100 times, it becomes a big error! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Oct 20 13:05:30 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 20 00:51:54 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEsfq-0004Fe-00; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 00:51:54 -0700 Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 00:48:56 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Giving thanks where thanks is due... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"fHTVKC.A.U9D.4nday"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/742 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 00:51:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 6d4669c4bdb46bd4a1e3121eb6db03e5 On Sun, 20 Oct 1996, Kim Flint wrote: > I dimly recall some musician who was in search of a sound that > would cause the audience to spontaneously lose control of their > bowels....another thing you probably wouldn't want to try in an office > atrium.... Oh, on the contrary, Kim! I'm increasingly tempted to go down to Oberheim's office and do just that, as a means of thanking them for their ongoing product support and showing them how it's being used! It's only fair that they get something in return for their efforts, after all... --Andre From ???@??? Sun Oct 20 13:05:28 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 20 00:16:13 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEs7I-0003LE-00; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 00:16:12 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 00:13:24 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: "This thing should not exist!" or: Pain through Quadrophonics Resent-Message-ID: <"nPSJ0B.A.4DD.AGday"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/741 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 00:16:12 -0700 X-UIDL: 9982936bf9fdbeddb01a8b82f1c2dd35 >What happened, however, was that Miroslav found himself getting *seasick* >from the experience. Rather than getting the sensation of sound >travelling around his head, he found his quad loop generated the sensation >of his own body moving around the looped sound, even as he was lying on >the ground in the middle of the speaker array. He described it as a very >disturbing sensation, remarking, "I had to wind up detroying this piece. >I decided that this was a thing that should not exist." Destroy it? I think a peice of music that is capable of generating such a physical reaction is pretty interesting. I would be quite impressed with myself if I was able to create music that caused the audience to get sick and vomit on each other! Probably wouldn't get a lot of repeat customers, but it might make for a rather compelling artistic statement of some sort or another. I dimly recall some musician who was in search of a sound that would cause the audience to spontaneously lose control of their bowels....another thing you probably wouldn't want to try in an office atrium.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Oct 20 13:05:34 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 20 08:03:24 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEzPO-0002D2-00; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 08:03:22 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 11:06:44 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: count me in Resent-Message-ID: <"2NSOO.A.2CC.U8jay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/743 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 08:03:22 -0700 X-UIDL: 17a558d4f7fc98eec544ce04bb743297 >>this sounds good to me. how many of us are interested in contributing >>recordings/stuff? we can link off of the LD to the individual files at my >>site, but i'll (for the sake of my grade) also set up a page of the people >>and files at my end. >> >>who's interested? >> >> > >i'd love to have access to such a page, would gladly contribute...it is >quite eye-opening to hear the work of the people on the list, and i'm hoping >to hear more... > > >dave at seventeen > I would also be interested in contributing Paul From ???@??? Sun Oct 20 13:05:36 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 20 08:10:21 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEzW8-0002No-00; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 08:10:20 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 11:13:37 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: loop manufacturers Resent-Message-ID: <"h18Fs.A.YMC.xCkay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/744 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 08:10:20 -0700 X-UIDL: 4a889339d5f9dc95e53891585af34964 How many are on this list and could we send emails as a group to both companies so that we might at least create create some kind of stir? Paul From ???@??? Sun Oct 20 13:05:38 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 20 08:13:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEzYy-0002Su-00; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 08:13:16 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 11:16:39 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: When stuck -- how I create loops / ideas Resent-Message-ID: <"T7faAD.A.QSC.oFkay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/745 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 08:13:16 -0700 X-UIDL: 1f3d2ca069193ee5987776a54b19e8c4 >David Kirkdorffer confesses :-) > >>I have no musical trainning (typo intended!!), so when I'm stuck for >>creativity, I use a "device" or "concept" to get some sound rolling. For >>example: > >Without any such "device" or "concept" you get some sound rolling? > >>1) using only "White" notes >>2) spelling musical words with a seven letter alphabet (ABACAB...DUG) >>3) creating only acending or descending melody lines >>4) not using a particular fret-range. i.e. 3-12 >> >>The biggest advantage to the approach I've found is that I worry about >>"fulfilling the concept" and don't get hung-up on "is what I'm playing any >>good" just long enough that something can be born. Too much attention to can >>get in the way. > >Pretty much my wave. >How many people in the world would have this same talent and desire to play >(closer in the original sense, here, if I understand you right) like you >do? >You think anyone can do it? >Could it be a wave like Karaoke? >I observed children liking it a lot. > >>In fact, it could be fun to hear the output from 10 loopists all using the >>same concept. >>But then that's no different than listening to 10 different love songs I >>suppose. > >Sisi, very different. Lets do it! At NAMM, for example ??? > >Matthias I to have utilized "compositional rules" that create a context within which to create ... it may have nothing to do with music but rather the interpretation of some reality ... for instance, telling the players to now and for the next 5 minutes interpret the color yellow ... or any such method where interpretation and improvisation can examine a theme. Paul From ???@??? Sun Oct 20 13:05:39 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 20 08:23:40 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEzj2-0002g1-00; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 08:23:40 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 11:26:52 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: lobbying for upgrades. Resent-Message-ID: <"Nvmgz.A.NeC.MPkay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/746 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 08:23:40 -0700 X-UIDL: 4b36f27d55a439ecc6616f9230a0b6d5 >Paul asks: > >>does it have the tap feature of the Jam and in addition can you dial in in >>seconds, the length of a loop? > >No. Sometimes people ask that. What would that be god for? Not sure if you are asking the value of the tap feature or the dial in ... tap is extremely useful on the Jamman when syning to already occuring sound .... as far as dialing in, it would be a nice feature especially when working with sequencers Paul From ???@??? Sun Oct 20 13:05:41 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 20 08:26:59 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEzmE-0002l7-00; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 08:26:58 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 11:30:24 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Loopy Atmospheres Resent-Message-ID: <"6n9S0D.A.1jC.hSkay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/747 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 08:26:58 -0700 X-UIDL: 81c8d258ba220db56d48148ee375c078 >>>At 05:33 PM 10/18/96 -0500, Paul wrote: >>>>I would be interested in any saved discussions about the Vortex >>>> >>> >>>Michael Peters recently html-ized it all for me, I'll have it in the archive >>>section of the web site this weekend. >>> >>>kim >>>_______________________________________________________ >> Sorry to bother you on this Kim ... but where is the web site? >> >>Paul > >Well, no wonder you were going on and on about us only ever talking about >hardware! You really need to check out the archives on the web site and see >some of the diverse discussions that took place before you joined the list. > >the url is: > >http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html > >The web site is an ongoing project, being created by anyone who has >something interesting to contribute to the loop knowledge base. A number of >folks on the list have contributed some great articles, and there's more on >the way. It's a collective effort, so any of you that want to take part >please do! Even if you don't think you have anything to say, there's plenty >of other stuff to be done. HTML coding, cgi/java scripts, graphics, >researching info, making archives of the list posts, artist profiles, new >page ideas, finding generous benefactors to help pay for it all, whatever. >By working together we can create something really worthwhile! > >kim > thanks Kim ... Paul From ???@??? Sun Oct 20 13:05:42 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 20 10:45:34 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vF1wK-0005wx-00; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 10:45:32 -0700 Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:43:51 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961020134350_1246735410@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Giving thanks where thanks is due... Resent-Message-ID: <"COarSC.A.7iF.XUmay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/748 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 10:45:32 -0700 X-UIDL: 1127427916166310f5dce9016efbc387 In a message dated 96-10-20 03:52:25 EDT, you write: > > Oh, on the contrary, Kim! I'm increasingly tempted to go down to > Oberheim's office and do just that, as a means of thanking them for their > ongoing product support and showing them how it's being used! It's only > fair that they get something in return for their efforts, after all... > > --Andre Yes -- very inspired! Maybe also an idea to add to the WebPage! Or a CD. As they say around Boston; "Wicked Pissa!" David From ???@??? Sun Oct 20 18:59:24 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 20 13:26:54 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vF4SR-0002iC-00; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:26:51 -0700 Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:23:41 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Giving thanks where thanks is due... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"GeJ1EB.A.QeC.croay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/753 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:26:51 -0700 X-UIDL: 492790b2e09cbac8dffedb9908e6341d On Sun, 20 Oct 1996, Kim Flint wrote: > To be fair, really, the folks at Oberheim work really hard and do try their > best. Its Gibson that creates the situation where their jobs are > impossible. So you might want to change your plane tickets to Nashville > rather than Oakland.... I'll take your word for it. This isn't the first time I've heard about people running into trouble with Gibson; I recall Allan Holsdworth saying that the main reason he stopped using Steinbergers was that he had trouble communicating with the company once they became a part of Gibson. (Sound familiar?!?!) BTW, I got an insurance quote for my Echoplex yesterday, and you all may be interested to know that the official retail price has dropped about $100 from where it used to be; the plex now lists for $799. (The footpedal is still $100). --Andre From ???@??? Sun Oct 20 18:59:17 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 20 13:12:00 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vF4E4-00028T-00; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:12:00 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:09:21 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Giving thanks where thanks is due... Resent-Message-ID: <"CGKhhB.A.89B.ddoay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/749 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:12:00 -0700 X-UIDL: 55bc8ad81aaa4d214d36a0428229d24a >On Sun, 20 Oct 1996, Kim Flint wrote: > >> I dimly recall some musician who was in search of a sound that >> would cause the audience to spontaneously lose control of their >> bowels....another thing you probably wouldn't want to try in an office >> atrium.... > >Oh, on the contrary, Kim! I'm increasingly tempted to go down to >Oberheim's office and do just that, as a means of thanking them for their >ongoing product support and showing them how it's being used! It's only >fair that they get something in return for their efforts, after all... > >--Andre To be fair, really, the folks at Oberheim work really hard and do try their best. Its Gibson that creates the situation where their jobs are impossible. So you might want to change your plane tickets to Nashville rather than Oakland.... kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Oct 20 18:59:19 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 20 13:23:18 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vF4Ox-0002Tk-00; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:23:15 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:20:52 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: lobbying for upgrades. Resent-Message-ID: <"Q23OF.A.rSC.Pooay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/750 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:23:15 -0700 X-UIDL: 403515c925028f2ac2254f8aed92d684 >>Paul asks: >> >>>does it have the tap feature of the Jam and in addition can you dial in in >>>seconds, the length of a loop? >> >>No. Sometimes people ask that. What would that be god for? > >Not sure if you are asking the value of the tap feature or the dial in ... >tap is extremely useful on the Jamman when syning to already occuring sound >.... as far as dialing in, it would be a nice feature especially when >working with sequencers > >Paul The tap function is at the heart of the whole thing, yes it does that. Dialing times in is a horrible way to sync with sequencers. The clocks will drift and things will go out of time from each other. And the number you see on the display is probably not even that accurate. An error between the two devices of only a 100 micro seconds or so will quickly add up with each repetition to the point where you will definitely notice flamming and worse. The Echoplex can do real syncing with midi clocks, as does the jamman I beleive. That's a much better way to deal with sequencers. The echoplex can also sync to pulses, so you could have triggers on a drum or even plug a metronome into it for sync. (using the BeatSync jack) kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Oct 20 18:59:21 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 20 13:26:32 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vF4S5-0002g9-00; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:26:29 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 18:30:11 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: exchanging ideas/PROPOSAL Resent-Message-ID: <"8YqcUB.A.obC.Froay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/752 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:26:29 -0700 X-UIDL: ba7b73a0976d3886e5afea39f5ae6a3d > >> inclusion of sound files (DISK SPACE IS NOT A LIMITATION or so i've been >> told - i can't imagine what they'll say if i show up with 30 megs of >> .wavs) for general appreciation. >> > >I'd like to submit some material, but I'd have to send a sorry old >cassette. Is that ok? >-Jon I just sent a sorry cassette to Kim with about ten different artists looping. Wonder wether he likes it. I should get permission of these people though. By snail mail. Matthias From ???@??? Sun Oct 20 18:59:22 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 20 13:26:34 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vF4S8-0002gT-00; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:26:32 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 18:30:16 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Transcribing Loops. Resent-Message-ID: <"O9IxkC.A.aaC.-qoay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/751 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:26:32 -0700 X-UIDL: 80b55bf2aad69d5856f8ca209069d282 Kim informed: >I think there is commercial software that can take digital audio and >transcribe it. I have no idea how well it works, or even who makes it. I >just remember seeing a review once. There has been research on this subject >for a long time in the academic community, I'm sure there are a variety of >methods to do it. Really? I need to know that! Here in Brasil I have never seen it and there are about 100'000 musicians needing it. 90% of all compositions happen on nylon guitar here (with them crazy bossa nova chord sequences), and nobody has a MIDI nylon guitar (there was only a PARADIS and a Godin on the market an both stopped?). >The echoplex wasn't really designed with the idea that people would be >transferring the digital audio to their computers and editing it or >whatever. (that sort of thing became a lot more popular in the years since >the design was done) You can do it, but you have to put it through some >filtering and a sample rate conversion first. Rather than messing around >with midi sample dump and various dsp filters, I think it would be a lot >easier for you to just record the audio out directly to hard disk and then >run it through the transcribing software. Better even record the played signal without loop on a channel because I doubt that even a smart software can still handle 10 layers of guitar, but maybe join 10 layers of analized scores. And you can tel the program, which parts have been joined to form the loop. (Even MIDI can tell that to the program, if it was prepared) Matthias From ???@??? Sun Oct 20 18:59:25 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 20 14:01:48 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vF50G-0003kV-00; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 14:01:48 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 13:58:41 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: loop manufacturers Resent-Message-ID: <"U5QCZC.A.vcD.sLpay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/754 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 14:01:48 -0700 X-UIDL: 5063d8918da2435db9fa43ec9b87afaf >How many are on this list and could we send emails as a group to both >companies so that we might at least create create some kind of stir? > >Paul There are about 60 on the list so far. Probably a lot more out there that would be interested that haven't heard about it yet. Sending email or complaining to Oberheim is sort of like trying to get a bill passed in the legislature by sending letters to your local dogcatcher. No matter how much they might want to help, they don't have the power to do so because they are just a tiny division in a much larger company. Your message has a much better chance of visibility by going through Gibson's customer support channels. The phone is 1-800-4GIBSON. They have a public customer relations email list, where you could raise all sorts of hell, at: gibson-custrel@gibson.com I think you join it by emailing gibson-custrel-request@gibson.com with "subscribe gibson-custrel" in the subject. Bear in mind, too, if you just complain a lot and generally behave negatively, they will probably just say its not worth the trouble and kill the whole thing. What really needs to happen is the powers that be at Gibson need to be convinced that things like the echoplex are of interest and that they should put more effort into support and development. Basically, if you can convince them that there is a large untapped market for it, their interest will go up. Lots of positive customer feedback and a general increase in inquiries will do that. (Echoplex sales, by the way, took a nice jump just because Mr. Torn mentioned it favorably in Guitar Player.) You can try Oberheim, 510-635-9633. You can harass Mike Lyon at Oberheim even more than he already is at mlyon@gibson.com. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Oct 20 18:59:29 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 20 16:05:55 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vF6wM-00002T-00; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 16:05:54 -0700 Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 19:03:27 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961020190326_1480885479@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Prices are dropping,,,? Resent-Message-ID: <"-u5TdB.A.4RH.BAray"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/755 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 16:05:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 43fce9a0846472174339519bb33e3384 In a message dated 96-10-20 16:27:09 EDT, you write: > > BTW, I got an insurance quote for my Echoplex yesterday, and you all may > be interested to know that the official retail price has dropped about > $100 from where it used to be; the plex now lists for $799. (The > footpedal is still $100). > > --Andre Is this an offical price drop from Gibson? If so, don't panic! But, in my experience when a vendor drops the price on premium technology, the vendor is getting jittery about sales, or is dumping product -- isn't that what happened to the JamMan?. David Kirkdorffer From ???@??? Sun Oct 20 18:59:30 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 20 16:06:41 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vF6x6-00005F-00; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 16:06:40 -0700 Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 19:04:15 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961020190356_1347298921@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: getting any ideas together before approaching Oberheim... Resent-Message-ID: <"KH4_K.A.dUH.zAray"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/756 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 16:06:40 -0700 X-UIDL: 5d7914aef2c30682b0b837873306ee95 In a message dated 96-10-20 17:01:50 EDT, you write: > > Bear in mind, too, if you just complain a lot and generally behave > negatively, they will probably just say its not worth the trouble and kill > the whole thing. What really needs to happen is the powers that be at > Gibson need to be convinced that things like the echoplex are of interest > and that they should put more effort into support and development. > Basically, if you can convince them that there is a large untapped market > for it, their interest will go up. I suggest organizing our arguments, ideas, suggestions and general helpful comments to increase Echoplex sales before sending mail to under-encouraged Oberheim employees. I'm guessing we may have market niche ideas Oberheim/Gibson could approach with the Echoplex. Normally, you'd hope they already had tried anything we may come up with, or a Product Manager for the Echoplex has experience. But my Market Research background has over and over again shown me grass-roots generated ideas are often overlooked. Maybe we can come up with something they haven't thought of. Does this seem like a good idea? Also, to not clutter the e-mail flow on a very unique Echoplex issue, maybe we should take this off-line somehow. I would gladly volunteer to receive general ideas and act as "secretary," however I'm going to lose e-mail access for a while. So, any takers? > Lots of positive customer feedback and a > general increase in inquiries will do that. (Echoplex sales, by the way, > took a nice jump just because Mr. Torn mentioned it favorably in Guitar > Player.) > > You can try Oberheim, 510-635-9633. You can harass Mike Lyon at Oberheim > even more than he already is at mlyon@gibson.com. > > kim However, positive feedback may be best coming from individuals. So, Echoplex loving gripers, kneel and be counted! David Kirkdorffer From ???@??? Sun Oct 20 18:59:33 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 20 17:27:12 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vF8D1-0002qm-00; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 17:27:11 -0700 Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 20:25:00 -0400 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961020202459_1347309233@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"ZWC_eC.A.knC.dMsay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/757 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 17:27:11 -0700 X-UIDL: ba933fad6faa242c4f755c168fdbdf11 Hmmmm... David Kirkdorffer writes: > I'd be interested in working to pull together > such a project -- that is, working on a CD of > Loopers-Delight subscribers loops. > Imagine if a CD costs $2500 and 10 musicians > divided 76minutes and the total cost... > And we could call it Loopers-Delight! Well, I'm a little fearful of offering this but, unless someone else was interested in doing it, I guess I could offer my graphic services (gratis of course) for a Loopy CD. I have done several (and my "day job" title is Art Director). If the group would provide the text, photos, a generally agreed upon concept, and other materials you could shave at *minimum* another $500 off of that $2500 total (probably more if you shopped around CD manufacturers a bit). Every little bit helps when making things economically feasable for folks to participate (I know). Any feedback? Ted Killian From ???@??? Mon Oct 21 02:57:21 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 20 20:09:46 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFAkJ-0007nC-00; Sun, 20 Oct 1996 20:09:43 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 20:06:52 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Sorting it all out Resent-Message-ID: <"a35hgB.A.9OH.4kuay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/758 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Oct 1996 20:09:43 -0700 X-UIDL: a092f17b8654970e5807a2cb90c88f37 >the one that they should have to be doing. (No doubt a book could be >written about the hassles engendered through working with Oberheim on the >project -- I don't imagine they treated G-Wiz with oodles more respect >than they treat their customers). Term definition: Gibson Guitar: Medium sized corporation with various divisions. Known for swallowing small, screwed up companies with good names and screwing them up even more. Currently providing Les Paul and Chet Atkins very comfortable retirements. Oberheim: Famous synth company founded by Tom Oberheim and lost to a shady lawyer and a bank over a decade ago. Bought by Gibson in late eighties, brought back to life about 3 years ago. Very tiny, primarily does final assembly, repairs, sales, marketing, shipping, and such. No R&D or manufacturing. G-WIZ Labs: The Gibson Western Innovation Zone, essentially defunct R&D division of Gibson Guitar. High profile, developing lots of exciting technology, much of it based on research from cnmat and ircam. Well funded, able to do anything it pleased for much of its lifespan. (including dictating to Oberheim what it would and would not be selling) In 1995 g-wiz was devastated by legal troubles and resulting low morale, essentially imploding around the last weeks of 1995. Remnants have survived through this year, one employee left. Matthias Grob: Independent inventor, created the Paradis LoopDelay with Eric Obermuelner. Licensed it to Oberheim. G-wiz worked with Matthias to redesign the LoopDelay into the Echoplex we all know and love. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Oct 21 09:55:29 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 21 03:32:16 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFHeY-0006gJ-00; Mon, 21 Oct 1996 03:32:14 -0700 Message-Id: <4441.199610211026@eestud4.elec.gla.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 11:26:56 +0100 From: Michael Hughes To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Transcribing Loops. Resent-Message-ID: <"m4fDcB.A.wJG.rD1ay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/759 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 03:32:14 -0700 X-UIDL: f91ade07627271a0d71c6889610181d8 > Here in Brasil I have never seen it and there are about 100'000 musicians > needing it. 90% of all compositions happen on nylon guitar here (with them. > crazy bossa nova chord sequences), and nobody has a MIDI nylon guitar > (there was only a PARADIS and a Godin on the market an both stopped?). Speaking of PARADIS, are they still around? I remember the PARADIS Avalon guitar with the Subbass system being reviewed in the UK magazine "Guitarist" about 6 years ago. Absolutely gorgeous, though having the tuners at the back seemed a bit complicated. Michael (No, a diferent Michael) Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes, Natural Philosopher Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, University of Glasgow, UK "Everything in Moderation, Including Moderation" (Zen proverb) From ???@??? Mon Oct 21 09:55:49 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 21 04:14:15 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFIJD-0002J7-00; Mon, 21 Oct 1996 04:14:15 -0700 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 96 06:54:46 EDT From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) Message-Id: <9610211054.AA21412@ibx.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Echoplex Description Resent-Message-ID: <"gok6lC.A.gIC.Tr1ay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/760 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 04:14:15 -0700 X-UIDL: 7be89d3b29f836492a3b1f910a8efea3 Could someone with decent technical knowledge offer a concise and clear description of the Echoplex's design, and how it does what it does? From ???@??? Mon Oct 21 09:55:50 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 21 04:26:13 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFIUn-0002UH-00; Mon, 21 Oct 1996 04:26:13 -0700 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 96 07:20:47 EDT From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) Message-Id: <9610211120.AA21577@ibx.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: When stuck -- how I create loops / ideas Resent-Message-ID: <"UWPSp.A.lTC.y21ay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/761 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 04:26:13 -0700 X-UIDL: e192a1314ed0685608743db73c10858c ******************************************************************************** ----- Begin Included Message ----- In a message dated 96-10-17 23:18:45 EDT, you write: >> Can we begin talking about how we compose, how we might use these ideas in >> performance, what musical surprises have occurred, what mistakes became >> part of the texture ... >> >> Paul >Good idea, why didn't you, then ;-) >I hav eno musical trainning (typo intended!!), so when I'm stuck for >creativity, I use a "device" or "concept" to get some sound rolling. For >example: >1) using only "White" notes >2) spelling musical words with a seven letter alphabet (ABACAB...DUG) >3) creating only acending or descending melody lines >4) not using a particular fret-range. i.e. 3-12 >The biggest advantage to the approach I've found is that I worry about >"fulfilling the concept" and don't get hung-up on "is what I'm playing any >good" just long enough that something can be born. Too much attention to can >get in the way. >Anyone got a simple "device" to offer? >In fact, it could be fun to hear the output from 10 loopists all using the >same concept. >But then that's no different than listening to 10 different love songs I >uppose. >David Kirkdorffer ----- End Included Message ----- ******************************************************************************** Sounds like a good idea, but where do you get "U" as part of your musical alphabet? Victor F., Philadelphia From ???@??? Mon Oct 21 09:55:52 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 21 05:16:54 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFJHp-0003Lj-00; Mon, 21 Oct 1996 05:16:53 -0700 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 96 08:07:09 EDT From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) Message-Id: <9610211207.AA21916@ibx.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Cassette Deck Looping Resent-Message-ID: <"lHWL4.A.MFD.Vl2ay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/762 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 05:16:53 -0700 X-UIDL: caf599e1727dd320de90d9128f3f073f Is it possible to use an ordinary cassette deck (or two) for looping? I had an open reel deck, but it is defunct. From ???@??? Mon Oct 21 09:55:56 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 21 07:24:18 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFLH7-0006QV-00; Mon, 21 Oct 1996 07:24:17 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9610211021.ZM17073@sparc.arts.rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 10:21:30 -0400 In-Reply-To: KILLINFO@aol.com "Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD?" (Oct 20, 5:27pm) References: <961020202459_1347309233@emout08.mail.aol.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 06sep94) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"oHpafB.A.R8F.Lc4ay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/763 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 07:24:17 -0700 X-UIDL: 77dc35574850c07dc7a1bc87450847a9 would be interesting... at least for us to share work and style? collier From ???@??? Mon Oct 21 21:43:14 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 21 14:20:33 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFRlw-000482-00; Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:20:32 -0700 Message-Id: <9610212023.AA08218@acc> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 16:22:34 -0500 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com From: jspeer@haverford.edu Subject: Office lobby gigs Resent-Message-ID: <"TwgdT.A._lD.Zg-ay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/764 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:20:32 -0700 X-UIDL: ea751c675feaaae9d585ca690485837c Hi! Someone (can't remember who) was recently posting about gigs in the lobbies of office buildings. I have noticed that busy lobbies are strangely popular venues for ambient music. My question is: how would one go about setting up such a gig? What sort of person should I aproach? Also, are such shows generally on a level of begging for change from passers-by, or can one negotiate a fee from the proper person? Thanks for any info! Jim From ???@??? Mon Oct 21 21:43:17 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 21 14:36:37 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFS1T-00050l-00; Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:36:35 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9610211733.ZM35641@marcus.its.rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 17:33:26 -0400 In-Reply-To: Kim Flint "Re: When? Where?" (Oct 18, 10:33pm) References: <2.2.32.19961019053808.00731a74@xenon.chromatic.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 07feb95) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: When? Where? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"u9yj5C.A.JjE.8w-ay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/765 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:36:35 -0700 X-UIDL: e4a6066ab08858ef764894b2937e02e4 kim, "Suk" is good and busier than ever. I didn't realize he ahd worked with you guys at gwiz... I'll have to pick on 'em bout dat one. he's trying to do some more STEIM work and is in Karlsruhe now. He didn't tell me that the box was intended for commercial use. He did his theis withit or at least some serious research work. collier From ???@??? Mon Oct 21 21:43:22 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 21 15:06:01 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFSTw-0006aK-00; Mon, 21 Oct 1996 15:06:00 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9610211746.ZM67728@marcus.its.rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 17:46:47 -0400 In-Reply-To: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) "Re: When? Where?" (Oct 19, 1:43pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 07feb95) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: When? Where? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"uEMiNB.A.HGG.xN_ay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/767 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 15:06:00 -0700 X-UIDL: afe5dfb690340f2d2d76c8d36b5f821c matthias... sukandar told me he just ran across rolf recently for pickups. did rolf ever get the email bug? (ps: to loopersouttadeknow, rolf is with paradis guitar) collier From ???@??? Mon Oct 21 21:43:20 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 21 14:57:00 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFSLC-00062X-00; Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:56:58 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9610211753.ZM68828@marcus.its.rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 17:53:08 -0400 In-Reply-To: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) "Re: "This thing should not exist!" or: Pain through Quadrophonics" (Oct 19, 1:43pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 07feb95) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: "This thing should not exist!" or: Pain through Quadrophonics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"rU7ZP.A.kgF.ZD_ay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/766 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:56:58 -0700 X-UIDL: 06c538bc10cedc5ef0cd737adbabf43d hi matthias, this is in response to "creating a score with the LARUS to plat the space of a given room. " to me the larus looked like the Lexicon Larc, except that it was probably near a prototype or something. what Lucia did was to write a piece for the larus to be performed in a specific space in new york city. Lucia's work deals with pure sound waves... most of the work seem svery focused and completely conceived - you guys should look him up in the history books. once you understand Lucia's work then you would understand what he did with the LARUS. also, He and the machine and a jaffey should be back to do aural architecture this coming semester. Jon Durant... are familiar with the larus project? collier From ???@??? Mon Oct 21 21:43:24 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 21 15:15:09 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFScl-00076H-00; Mon, 21 Oct 1996 15:15:07 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9610211812.ZM35387@marcus.its.rpi.edu> Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 18:12:35 -0400 In-Reply-To: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) "Re: Amplifiers" (Oct 19, 9:35pm) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 07feb95) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Amplifiers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"QRBWTB.A.ZiG.mV_ay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/768 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 15:15:07 -0700 X-UIDL: 636d267ecb7e7326db78907d433e29b1 concerning clarks comments there is a 300 what stereo keyboard amp out with 6 inputs and 2 effects loops. it has two 10's and two 2's or something like that... can't remember it's made in canada by york collier I'm using a marshall AS80R as a stereo guitar amp/looper. it has stereo effects return, one piezo(that I use for magnetic), one magnetic/aux(that I use for peizo), and one xlr (that I use for synth). conceptually it's great... BUT! this my second one and I'm beginning to hate the piece o' shit. talk about difficult tech support. try to deal with korg/marshall when it come s to their faulty components... jeez... one of the tech's told me " oh yeah, we know about that problem, it's from a bad batch of compontents.. we have a mod for that" so when I called back that particular tech wasn't there and the head guy told me that I had to take it to a marshall authorized service center.... three repair places later and many phone calls, I still have a noisy(x 10 to the 43rd power) transistor amp with limited frequency response... prolly woulda been better off witht the crate acoustic amp or something. sorry for that.. I'm very tempted to use some of the tannoy pbm 6.5's or 8's we have around the studio with a stereo amp and small mixer like matthias suggested. but then again, it's much easier to grab my gig bag, amp and rack in one pass. especially for airplanes cause my cloths fit around the amp in the shipping box and the tooth brush goes in the pocket of my gig bag! so, we should design a small powerfully efficient full range system for the loopists! collier From ???@??? Mon Oct 21 21:43:27 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 21 15:50:51 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFTBK-0001De-00; Mon, 21 Oct 1996 15:50:50 -0700 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 18:46:34 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961021184633_1448099248@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Amplifiers Resent-Message-ID: <"Fu27Y.A.l7.M2_ay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/769 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 15:50:50 -0700 X-UIDL: 005ed52fac5a0ceb88daac243cbc41a8 In a message dated 96-10-21 18:14:20 EDT, you write: > > so, we should design a small powerfully efficient full range system for the > loopists! > > collier GOD YESSSS!!! I'm tired of lugging about a 15" speaker. Though I love the sound and don't expect it can be replaced soncally. ADA had a 100 watt combo amp in a plastic enclosure. Really light. I mean REALLY light. 2 10's" I think. I so WANTED it to work for me. But, no luck. Still looking for something loud and small to replace the JC120 and 15"bass cab... David From ???@??? Mon Oct 21 21:43:29 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 21 16:06:46 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFTQj-00022Z-00; Mon, 21 Oct 1996 16:06:45 -0700 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199610212305.QAA14707@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 16:05:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9610181045.ZM10235@sparc.arts.rpi.edu> from "Louis Collier Hyams" at Oct 18, 96 10:45:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"EpJ7kC.A.X2B.EHAby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/770 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 16:06:45 -0700 X-UIDL: 5db7b264430ae544fdcfbbfae66fe009 > a piece I'm about to take on tour(iEAR MFA show) consists of an indian > classical dancer wearing white with the position of being a living dancing > screen, a looping trigger percussionist, and guitar/looping/synthing/dancing. This looks very interesting; it reminds me of a videotape Prof. George Lewis showed us of an Indonesian performer who triggered samples of his own voice himself relating his own life story as he danced. Do you plan to have your performances videotaped? > there seems to be a very fine line in performance with what is live... what > is triggered, what is sampled, what is sequenced. sometimes I'd like to tell > certain solo performers that they shoulda just used a portadat - over all the > mac gear/midi gear/digi audio gear/ and max programming and lickmachine > programming and all the junque and time that is spent and goes wrong in such > a performance. > background of this is a show I just teched/videoed... the performer read from > a score that had footswitch points along with music notation. as he played > flute he would trigger sequences, samples, effects patches and etc. yeah, it > sounded great, and it was cool.... but! I spent five hours with him fixing > his gear/soldering/testing/resoldering/reprogramming/resoundchecking.... > and when it came down to the performance, would it have made any difference > to the audience? Folks I have seen who have dared to perform interactive computer music live seemed to prefer Powerbooks instead of a full blown desktop system because laptops fold up nicely and are easily transported. There was a performer from Mills College who had a nice velvet-glove-to-computer kind of interactive setup. I should have asked her and George what measures they take to minimize possible glitches in setup and performance. No offense to David Jaffe, but for one of his performances, he just popped in a tape and we had to sit there and listen to it. To me this was not as interesting as watching him on MIDI violin and his partner on Radio Drum wreaking computer-enhanced electronic havoc. I guess I'm of the old school mentality where I expect from a live performance certain elements that can't be gotten from listening to the same piece from some recording. Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Mon Oct 21 21:43:40 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 21 18:29:32 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFVet-0001Uu-00; Mon, 21 Oct 1996 18:29:31 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 17:50:37 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: "This thing should not exist!" or: Pain through Quadrophonics Resent-Message-ID: <"DdTzhB.A.0VB.5MCby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/771 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 18:29:31 -0700 X-UIDL: f4d008cbdfb210b7075e72df2681ec11 >hi matthias, this is in response to "creating a score with the LARUS to plat >the space of a given room. " > >to me the larus looked like the Lexicon Larc, except that it was probably near >a prototype or something. what Lucia did was to write a piece for the larus to >be performed in a specific space in new york city. Lucia's work deals with >pure sound waves... most of the work seem svery focused and completely >conceived - you guys should look him up in the history books. once you Indeed. Alvin Lucier's "I am Sitting in a Room" has got to be one of the looping classics. It consists of Lucier sitting in a room with 2 distant mics, 2 tape decks, and speakers. The recording begins with Lucier verbally describing the process of the piece, which is that he is recording his voice, and after recording, he will play that back through the speakers, and record that through the mics onto the 2nd tape deck. This continues for about 25 generations. At first, you just hear reverberation of the rooms acoustics as he replays the tape into the room. Gradually, certain frequencies begin to stand out, and by the middle of the 2nd side of the lp, you start hearing melodies and textures, while the words are no longer distinguishable. It's a fascinating piece, both for the process and the musical results. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Mon Oct 21 21:43:42 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 21 19:47:08 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFWry-0004cG-00; Mon, 21 Oct 1996 19:47:06 -0700 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 22:44:40 -0400 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961021223721_130784081@emout08.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Amplifiers Resent-Message-ID: <"iH7uKC.A.2QE.YVDby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/772 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 19:47:06 -0700 X-UIDL: 9fe5b6087eb6b39b586f61be54d2b4a7 Has anyone out there heard or tried the *Dawn* system? It's a stereo sattelite and subwoofer speaker system with tiny speakers up on stands and the usual unobtrusive black box sub. I've heard it demoed a couple of times (at NAMM and another trade show) but with pre-recorded material only. Looks sortta funky, but it did sound pretty good. Has anyone heard it with live music? Seems like it would make a pretty decent light weight and highly mobile unit. Ted From ???@??? Mon Oct 21 21:43:47 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 21 21:20:49 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFYKe-0000ni-00; Mon, 21 Oct 1996 21:20:48 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 02:24:05 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Transcribing Loops. Resent-Message-ID: <"vm8Rp.A.ko.GtEby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/773 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 21:20:48 -0700 X-UIDL: 5f6036d3c25c893858e7f7a153816b8d diferent Michael asks >Speaking of PARADIS, are they still around? I remember the PARADIS Avalon >guitar with the Subbass system being reviewed in the UK magazine "Guitarist" >about 6 years ago. Absolutely gorgeous, though having the tuners at the >back seemed a bit complicated. Rolf is still there at 0041 52 233 3443 and sells the last AVALONS since he got tired to make them. The system with the piezo pickup and subbass (manly my creation) is subject to be installed into some other manufacturers instruments. Thanks for the interest. Matthias From ???@??? Mon Oct 21 21:43:45 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 21 21:20:43 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFYKY-0000nF-00; Mon, 21 Oct 1996 21:20:42 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 02:24:11 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Another griper knees at the Oberheim Shrine Resent-Message-ID: <"4UHu1D.A.up.StEby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/774 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 21:20:42 -0700 X-UIDL: c417591b6918161e3d6d0b1163d75706 >On Sat, 19 Oct 1996, Matthias wrote: > >> Andre on his knees :-) : > >WOAH!!! > >I like the thing, man, but let's not git outta hand here! > >--Andre on his feet aem, sorry, I thought I was just citing you. Or who would be the griper (what is that anyway?) you are talking about in the subject? :-)... From ???@??? Tue Oct 22 00:28:06 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 21 23:03:10 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFZvi-0004mZ-00; Mon, 21 Oct 1996 23:03:10 -0700 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 22:36:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610220536.WAA03885@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: "This thing should not exist!" or: Pain through Quadrophonics Resent-Message-ID: <"0TUEyD.A.ORE.pLGby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/776 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 23:03:10 -0700 X-UIDL: 6872e4217245f7341b64e1f03760135c >What happened, however, was that Miroslav found himself getting *seasick* >from the experience. Some Morton Feldman pieces do this to me. I can't listen to them, because the room starts spinning (like being way too drunk). From ???@??? Tue Oct 22 00:28:07 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 21 23:15:20 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFa7U-0005GD-00; Mon, 21 Oct 1996 23:15:20 -0700 Date: 22 Oct 96 02:11:22 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: "This thing should not exist!" or: P Message-ID: <961022061122_100041.247_JHB45-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"hP9TXB.A.n4E.NZGby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/777 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 23:15:20 -0700 X-UIDL: 166641153cbd08b23c59e2f37c1f5756 Dave wrote, > Alvin Lucier's "I am Sitting in a Room" has got to be one of the > looping classics. That's right! Why don't you edit your description a little so I can put it into the next version of our web-loopography. Do you remember when Lucier did this piece? Everyone, please write reviews (just a few sentences are better than nothing) of your favorite loop pieces, and contribute them for the loopography! -Michael From ???@??? Tue Oct 22 00:28:04 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 21 22:34:35 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFZU0-000466-00; Mon, 21 Oct 1996 22:34:32 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 03:37:36 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: exchanging ideas/PROPOSAL Resent-Message-ID: <"doBdZD.A.AwD._xFby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/775 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 22:34:32 -0700 X-UIDL: 5637f7f3945338fa151288f67f32fa6b >I have a brief piece I'd like to contribute. I could store it on my own web >site though, http://www.peak.org/~improv/music.html > I clicked "improviser journal" (obviously) and there was "not found"... From ???@??? Tue Oct 22 09:55:12 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 22 00:49:53 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFbaz-0000Fa-00; Tue, 22 Oct 1996 00:49:53 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 09:48:55 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Transcribing Loops. In-Reply-To: <961019074057_1347149200@emout17.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"64IyfB.A.MM.uxHby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/778 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 00:49:53 -0700 X-UIDL: 6bdfb9277456053159b87d2ed1c56c05 I know there is devices able to extract rythm and tempo informations from an audio file, but notes???? By the way sometime i record via midi the notes i play (guitar synth) to get a loop. But it is not very informative, because sometime texture can be created only by accumulation where notes start not to mean a lot anymore.... Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Tue Oct 22 09:55:14 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 22 00:54:21 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFbfI-0000Nt-00; Tue, 22 Oct 1996 00:54:20 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 00:51:59 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Amplifiers Resent-Message-ID: <"LRiFs.A.IV.K2Hby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/779 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 00:54:20 -0700 X-UIDL: eed04fdc509d61f911239e68436952c5 >Has anyone out there heard or tried the *Dawn* system? It's a stereo >sattelite and subwoofer speaker system with tiny speakers up on stands and >the usual unobtrusive black box sub. I've heard it demoed a couple of times >(at NAMM and another trade show) but with pre-recorded material only. Looks >sortta funky, but it did sound pretty good. Has anyone heard it with live >music? Seems like it would make a pretty decent light weight and highly >mobile unit. > >Ted Gibson actually distributes this. I don't think they own dawn, but they handle sales and marketing or something. I used one of these dawn systems to demo the echoplex at the last namm show. They sound pretty good. We were also demoing various analog synths and hammond b-3 simulators, and the low end from the subwoofer really made this stuff sound great. I had my dod Death Metal pedal with me, and with the tight bass response it sounded down right terrifying! I turned the "pain" knob up and people were literally collapsing in front of me! Well, not really, but they would have if not for those darned sound police imposing db limits..... The dawn has a mixer and power amp built into a suitcase for easy carrying. The sattelites are quite small, like 6 inches square. They mount on sturdy mic-type stands. The sub is the only big piece, and its about combo amp size. I think it would work fine for looping needs. I'm not sure of the specs, but it does sound quite good. Probably better for smaller gigs, I don't think it has enough juice to fill big clubs or anything. A guy I know that demo's and clinics zeta electric violins uses one and likes it quite a lot. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Tue Oct 22 09:55:17 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 22 04:15:21 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFenm-00026V-00; Tue, 22 Oct 1996 04:15:18 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Oct 96 06:57:42 EDT From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) Message-Id: <9610221057.AA21831@ibx.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Office lobby gigs Resent-Message-ID: <"y_1xmB.A.S1B.lxKby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/780 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 04:15:18 -0700 X-UIDL: e2e04878fac2466ee9d4aa28441eb3ec For anyone in Philadelphia, check out 1735 Market Street, Mellon Bank Building. During the spring/summer, they regularly have live music in the courtyard. They do not have lobby music, though it is probably something they would consider. From ???@??? Tue Oct 22 09:55:18 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 22 05:03:47 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFfYg-0004vr-00; Tue, 22 Oct 1996 05:03:46 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Oct 96 07:19:58 EDT From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) Message-Id: <9610221119.AA21949@ibx.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: When stuck -- how I create loops / ideas Resent-Message-ID: <"wFODD.A.MlE.efLby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/781 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 05:03:46 -0700 X-UIDL: 9991463bfc8cca5c943a11d318a83cf1 >1) using only "White" notes > >2) spelling musical words with a seven letter alphabet (ABACAB...DUG) > >3) creating only acending or descending melody lines > >4) not using a particular fret-range. i.e. 3-12 That's an interesting idea. The point is apparently to force yourself to break the rules and play sequences only for their place in this "language", taking you into new sonic realms. What about using a small random letter generator program to come up with strings of varying lengths using the "musical alphabet"? The player could determine individual note duration/velocity/etc., or some or all of these characteristics could be produced randomly as well. It seems that by using the word system described above, you are abandoning one restrictive system for another. Has anyone tried the random letter program idea? Also, why use only "white" notes? Once again, doesn't this severely limit the musical depth? From ???@??? Tue Oct 22 09:55:20 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 22 05:26:39 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFfup-0005UM-00; Tue, 22 Oct 1996 05:26:39 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 14:25:35 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: When stuck -- how I create loops / ideas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"8MgyZ.A.SGF.I1Lby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/782 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 05:26:39 -0700 X-UIDL: d6160c620cf06a2450a2fcb5e1f1ddd0 This whole thing about patterns and so on make me think to a few comments I read of Brian Eno about music, and how he was deliberatly imposing limits in work to allow one to go further and be creative.... From ???@??? Tue Oct 22 09:55:24 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 22 07:42:08 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFi1v-0001Vn-00; Tue, 22 Oct 1996 07:42:07 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:38:55 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Amplifiers In-Reply-To: <961021223721_130784081@emout08.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"TprT4.A.FTB.RyNby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/783 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 07:42:07 -0700 X-UIDL: 4fdb580c29e346b922d9dbf61120d14d On Mon, 21 Oct 1996 KILLINFO@aol.com wrote: > Has anyone out there heard or tried the *Dawn* system? It's a stereo > sattelite and subwoofer speaker system with tiny speakers up on stands and > the usual unobtrusive black box sub. I've heard it demoed a couple of times > (at NAMM and another trade show) but with pre-recorded material only. Looks > sortta funky, but it did sound pretty good. Has anyone heard it with live > music? Seems like it would make a pretty decent light weight and highly > mobile unit. > > Ted > > Your description made me think of a Bose system. (Bose is french) Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Tue Oct 22 09:55:25 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 22 07:45:14 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFi4v-0001ds-00; Tue, 22 Oct 1996 07:45:13 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 09:42:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Dave Stagner X-Sender: dstagner@icarus.icarus.net To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: When stuck -- how I create loops / ideas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"aM_CwB.A.GdB.01Nby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/784 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 07:45:13 -0700 X-UIDL: 4f94eacf3e60f81348307c0c0ec3e992 On Tue, 22 Oct 1996, Olivier Malhomme wrote: > This whole thing about patterns and so on make me think to a few comments > I read of Brian Eno about music, and how he was deliberatly imposing > limits in work to allow one to go further and be creative.... > I think Eno is completely right. Modern technology gives us an amazing amount of flexibility for making music... too much flexibility. As musicians, we need to impose limitations on ourselves in order to create a workable environment where music can happen (the flip side is we need to accept whatever technology is necessary to achieve particular goals). Eno's choice of synthesizers is a case in point. He uses three - a Minimoog, a 70s Korg polyphonic, and a DX7. Modern synthesizers, says Eno, attempt to produce as wide a range of sounds as possible, and as such, lose their unique voice and character. It is better to use an instrument with a strong characteristic voice, and work within the limitations of that voice. I confine myself mostly to acoustic guitar for similar reasons. It gives me a broad, but not infinite pallette of tones to work with. I think of the looping devices as more canvas than paint, if you know what I mean. -dave By "beauty," I mean that which seems complete. Obversely, that the incomplete, or the mutilated, is the ugly. Venus De Milo. To a child she is ugly. -Charles Fort dstagner@icarus.net From ???@??? Tue Oct 22 23:31:16 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 22 15:14:49 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFp60-0001oz-00; Tue, 22 Oct 1996 15:14:48 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ToddM@LaserMaster.Com Organization: LaserMaster Corporation Date: 22 Oct 1996 17:13:20CST6CDT Subject: Vortex Patch Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Mac v2.0 Message-ID: <1FEE92C537C@laserm.lmt.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"G7S3rB.A.TlB.obUby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/789 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 15:14:48 -0700 X-UIDL: a7716476c0bfaf7494638b353adfecea Hi kids. Sorry, it's been terribly busy at work here. I promise I'll get you two cool vortexc patches tomorrow. "The check's in the mail". I've got two cool modified patches for guitar you guys should have - be patient, it'l be worth it, I promise. Todd Madson PressMate Product Specialist LaserMaster Big Color Technical Support Corporate Web Site: http://www.lasermaster.com/ LaserMaster BBS: (612) TEK-LINE OTIS Faxback Service: (612) 943-3737 From ???@??? Tue Oct 22 23:30:48 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 22 10:49:57 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFkxe-0003DT-00; Tue, 22 Oct 1996 10:49:54 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 10:09:42 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: "This thing should not exist!" or: P Resent-Message-ID: <"OLKDZC.A.L2C.ziQby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/785 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 10:49:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 1c9904e630fc4480b7535ebbc0a49395 >Dave wrote, > >> Alvin Lucier's "I am Sitting in a Room" has got to be one of the >> looping classics. > >That's right! Why don't you edit your description a little so I can put it >into the next version of our web-loopography. Do you remember when Lucier >did this piece? > That's a great idea. I believe it was done in the early 60's, though I don't remember, The lp was at a radio station I used to work at, and my only copy is on a tape of a radio show. Do you want the reviews submitted to the list or directly to the loopography? ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Tue Oct 22 23:30:50 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 22 10:50:00 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFkxi-0003Ds-00; Tue, 22 Oct 1996 10:49:58 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 10:09:50 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: When stuck -- how I create loops / ideas Resent-Message-ID: <"NUA74.A.R3C.-iQby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/786 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 10:49:58 -0700 X-UIDL: 8e3e252e7744ae9915edc1f7bbf48f90 > >1) using only "White" notes >> >2) spelling musical words with a seven letter alphabet (ABACAB...DUG) >> >3) creating only acending or descending melody lines >> >4) not using a particular fret-range. i.e. 3-12 > >That's an interesting idea. The point is apparently to force yourself to >break the rules and play sequences only for their place in this >"language", taking you into new sonic realms. > >What about using a small random letter generator program to come up with >strings of varying lengths using the "musical alphabet"? The player could >determine individual note duration/velocity/etc., or some or all of these >characteristics could be produced randomly as well. It seems that by >using the word system described above, you are abandoning one restrictive >system for another. Has anyone tried the random letter program idea? > I had an interesting conversation with Michael Vlatkovich, an avant-garde jazz trombonist and composer from L.A., about some of his "jump start" compositional ideas. One of his techniques is to take a person's name (or sometimes even a pet, he has one piece that's built from the names of his 3 cats), and assigning the letters of the alphabet to 26 consecutive notes (2 notes more than 2 octaves), he spells out the name in pitches. Then he uses the resulting melody as the basis for a composition. What's interesting is that a lot of his pieces that are written this way sound surprisingly tonal, and not like system music. A lot of this has to do with the harmonization. He has a couple of records on the 9-winds label that are worth checking out, though not particularly loopy. >Also, why use only "white" notes? Once again, doesn't this severely limit >the musical depth? Yeah, I would find that limiting too, but sometimes it's interesting to limit your creativity in one aspect to force you to use other approaches. I had a jazz piano teacher who used to play little mental games while soloing on standards, like trying to play an entire chorus on only the black keys, or white keys, or in the key of E major (creates some cool harmonies since most standards are in F, Bb, Eb). These things can really force you out of established habits and into some creative thinking, and isn't that what improvising all about? Also, I heard an Arvo Part choral piece on the radio the other day that was entirely within the key of C major, but still manged to develop some interesting dissonances. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Tue Oct 22 23:31:07 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 22 12:49:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFmp8-0001dA-00; Tue, 22 Oct 1996 12:49:14 -0700 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199610221947.MAA21913@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Infinity Guitar To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 12:47:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: from "Kim Flint" at Oct 19, 96 10:10:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"6MV3BB.A.mYB.ETSby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/787 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 12:49:14 -0700 X-UIDL: 2c95d2240b63e9c87c0dc018f483fd10 > additive/resynthesis techniques being developed at cnmat. Naturally, it > used the ZIPI network/musical desciption language protocol that we were > also developing. ZIPI sounded like something with a lot of potential. What a shame it will probably never see the light of day. > Personally, I hate guitar synthesizers. It's fun for two minutes while I > play a note and say "golly, it comes out sounding like a digiridoo!" But > then I notice myself getting bored and losing interest. The problem is that > no matter how I play the note, the digiridoo, or tamborine, or whatever, > sounds EXACTLY the same. All of the expressive techniques I've spent my > whole life learning to do on guitar strings are totally filtered out. No > thanks. The infinity was to actually use all the expressive control of the > guitarist to control the synthesis, which I found quite exciting. The only product I know of that fits that description today (access to cool non-guitar-like sounds yet with allowance for expressive guitar techniques) is the Roland VG8. It's a shame there really isn't a competing product. The folks on the Digital Guitar list said that while the VG8 lives up to the hype as far as being responsive to expressive techniques, they found it somewhat lacking in programmability. Since most of the synthesizer sounds that have caught my interest can be duplicated by guitars equipped with today's signal processing technology (effects, volume pedals, breath controllers, Ebow, looping devices, etc.) I'd probably be more interested in getting a good sampler than a synthesizer, mainly for cataloging percussion and guitar noises for cut-and-paste. Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Tue Oct 22 23:31:09 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 22 13:39:39 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFnbt-0004Md-00; Tue, 22 Oct 1996 13:39:37 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961022204055.00b6f614@pureatria.com> X-Sender: sechevar@pureatria.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 13:40:55 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Sean Echevarria Subject: Mixers Resent-Message-ID: <"WBHhZC.A.-8D.hCTby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/788 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 13:39:37 -0700 X-UIDL: 24d674ccf5a9c446a965d61c410f5594 Is anybody out there using 1 or 2 space rack mount line level mixers? What do you think of what you have and what should I look into? Right now I have a patchbay and a Rane SM-26(?) - an 8 line mixer with no effects sends. After reading about DT's setup I am considering the possibilities of having effects sends in a mixer, rather than through the use of a patchbay. Any thoughts? From ???@??? Tue Oct 22 23:31:23 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 22 16:08:46 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFpw8-0004un-00; Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:08:40 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:03:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610222303.QAA05544@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Locatons for looping. Resent-Message-ID: <"Yoh7yB.A.CfE.HNVby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/791 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:08:40 -0700 X-UIDL: ea9714dc57371135d819f2076f449a1e Paul Poplawski, Phd writes: >I think Borders would be a great place for a loopy atmospheric thang And you can pick up your copy of Bailey's "Improvisation" at the same time (I got mine there yesterday). It's a pretty good store for something owned by K-Mart. (actually, for those who don't know, the original Border's was a fantastic independant bookstore in Ann Arbor, MI. K-Mart bought them a couple years ago and started cloning somewhat mainstreamed versions all over the damn country) Still, pretty good for a chain. The Tower Records of bookstores. From ???@??? Tue Oct 22 23:31:33 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 22 16:50:19 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFqDK-0005eR-00; Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:26:26 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:22:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610222322.QAA07611@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time Resent-Message-ID: <"16EKIC.A.3LF.3dVby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/792 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:26:26 -0700 X-UIDL: 7fc6de6dc8e9d1d1d8f6be6d27df98ad >DJ Spooky, as I mentioned in an earlier post, was fully transcendental. He's got a new live-performance CD out under his real name (I think it's Paul Miller). It's super-limited (500 copies or something), so if you're interested, go in search now. I got mine at Aquarius in SF (by mail). From ???@??? Tue Oct 22 23:31:21 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 22 15:51:41 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFpfd-0004Au-00; Tue, 22 Oct 1996 15:51:37 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Oct 96 17:43:45 CST From: "Todd Madson" Message-Id: <9609228460.AA846031861@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ToddM@lasermaster.com Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"AiX1f.A.PnD.s7Uby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/790 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 15:51:37 -0700 X-UIDL: 256a60d1054237339b8061f97d76a1da Hmmmm. $250 a pop and about 7.5 minutes for a single piece. Could be do-able, but I've been finding that I've been doing 20+ minute piece since I've gotten into looping for long, very gradual transitions. Todd Madson. _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com at Internet Date: 10/19/96 5:25 PM >Message was resent -- Original recipients were: To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com-------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------- > On Sat, 19 Oct 1996, Dan Howarth wrote: > > > this sounds good to me. how many of us are interested in contributing > > recordings/stuff? we can link off of the LD to the individual files at my > > site, but i'll (for the sake of my grade) also set up a page of the people > > and files at my end. > > > > who's interested? > You know -- I think I remember while I subscribed to the Ambient Digest, a CD of material produced by the musicians on the list was created. I'd be interested in working to pull together such a project -- that is, working on a CD of Loopers-Delight subscribers loops. Imagine if a CD costs $2500 and 10 musicians divided 76minutes and the total cost... And we could call it Loopers-Delight! David Kirkdorffer Received: from spica.LaserMaster.Com by ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com (SMTPLINK V2.10.08) ; Sat, 19 Oct 96 17:25:08 CST Return-Path: Received: from ferret.slip.net (ferret.slip.net [204.160.88.6]) by spica.LaserMaster.Com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA18934 for ; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 17:23:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vEjjq-0004AD-00; Sat, 19 Oct 1996 15:19:27 -0700 Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 18:17:15 -0400 From: SayAaahh@aol.com Message-ID: <961019181715_1644761328@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"aU0AL.A.fyD.uOVay"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/726 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: ToddM@lasermaster.com Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 1996 15:19:27 -0700 From ???@??? Tue Oct 22 23:31:31 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 22 16:50:11 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFqaH-0007SI-00; Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:50:09 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:46:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610222346.QAA09853@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <961018220549_100041.247_JHB35-1@CompuServe.COM> Subject: exchanging ideas Resent-Message-ID: <"ZCerCB.A.O0G.s0Vby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/793 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:50:09 -0700 X-UIDL: fe6deff4a0467f9cf382289330adadb8 >While reading all your different profiles again, I thought I'd really love >to *hear* what you all do. Maybe a few of us have homepages and can offer >some of their music as files, others don't. It would be nicer to have >cassette compilations with works of each of us. I can put together a comp CD of listfolk. I did this for the Richard Thompson list. DATs, CDs, or cassettes all work fine. Anyone interested? From ???@??? Tue Oct 22 23:31:35 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 22 16:59:03 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFqip-0000NC-00; Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:58:59 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:54:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610222354.QAA10819@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time Resent-Message-ID: <"swtetD.A.QF.q7Vby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/794 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:58:59 -0700 X-UIDL: 64f34b24821ce8f9e466482cd760b8a6 >Playing a >"traditional" guitar solo (I'm a guitarist....please forgive my bias) over >the top of a loop, in my opinion, helps to remind people that you really >are playing your instrument....even if they don't understand the technical >aspects of your whole performance. > >Matt Um, has anyone here ever tried *explaining* what they're doing? You know, do a little 2 minute seminar before the performance? From ???@??? Tue Oct 22 23:31:39 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 22 17:08:58 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFqsR-0001Az-00; Tue, 22 Oct 1996 17:08:55 -0700 Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 17:00:43 -0700 Message-Id: <199610230000.RAA22647@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: Re: Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time Resent-Message-ID: <"2ge8fD.A.73._FWby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/795 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 17:08:55 -0700 X-UIDL: 9f6b08d1dbfa60f9713ab35cddc59a4f At 04:54 PM 10/22/96 -0700, you wrote: >>Playing a >>"traditional" guitar solo (I'm a guitarist....please forgive my bias) over >>the top of a loop, in my opinion, helps to remind people that you really >>are playing your instrument....even if they don't understand the technical >>aspects of your whole performance. >> >>Matt > >Um, has anyone here ever tried *explaining* what they're doing? You >know, do a little 2 minute seminar before the performance? > > No- not a preface...but after one Bindlestiff gig we invited questions...what an eye-opener! the two of us had to stand there for 30 minutes fielding every imaginable question! people are VERY interested in looping...once they HEAR it. and while i'm here, i'm not so sure you "have to" play a guitar solo to remind them that you are there. you ARE there, and whatever you do, if they are tuned in at all, they will hear, regardless of if a "solo" is on top... just a thought.... dave at seventeen 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * I'll be downstairs if you need me. I'll still be * * downstairs if you DON'T need me. * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Tue Oct 22 23:31:48 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 22 17:22:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFr5M-00027Q-00; Tue, 22 Oct 1996 17:22:16 -0700 From: "Louis Collier Hyams" Message-Id: <9610222018.ZM136984@magritte.its.rpi.edu> Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 20:18:46 -0400 In-Reply-To: Olivier Malhomme "Re: Amplifiers" (Oct 22, 7:42am) References: X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Amplifiers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Resent-Message-ID: <"stVWvB.A.KuB.4RWby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/796 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 17:22:16 -0700 X-UIDL: 555852969eec0adec34c4a47e9b64d0e ted, I've seen and used the dawn stuff. it looks like a toy, but sounds pretty good adn would be interesting for loop style music...you could run your gear through the crowd and chill in the ambient zone. music from the heavens so-to-speak. I have also seen them blown. this particular system was in a large university convention room. each wall had a highend unit with a sub in each corner. wasn't there when it was blown, but I imagined it was one of the frat dance parties that were very common. also, must people with the dawn systems use the sabine feedback exterminator, which I affectionately term an audio bandaid, in conjunction with limiting. collier From ???@??? Wed Oct 23 01:42:21 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 23 00:50:01 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFy4e-0005lr-00; Wed, 23 Oct 1996 00:50:00 -0700 Date: 23 Oct 96 03:46:29 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: "This thing should not exist!" or: P Message-ID: <961023074629_100041.247_JHB72-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"cvIr.A.jVF.v3cby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/797 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 00:50:00 -0700 X-UIDL: a1e9f1d65d9ffdcc144683ef43967bf9 Dave wrote (about including an Alvin Lucier review on the loopography page) > That's a great idea. That's what I started the loopography page for. > I believe it was done in the early 60's I looked it up. According to one of my books, it was created 1970. > Do you want the reviews submitted to the list or directly to the > loopography? Please email the reviews to me privately. I'll htmlize them, put them on the loopography page, and forward the result to Kim who does the upload. -Michael 100041.247@compuserve.com From ???@??? Wed Oct 23 01:42:22 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 23 00:50:32 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vFy59-0005n4-00; Wed, 23 Oct 1996 00:50:31 -0700 Date: 23 Oct 96 03:46:34 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: exchanging ideas/PROPOSAL Message-ID: <961023074634_100041.247_JHB72-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"dpGlrC.A.xWF.33cby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/798 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 00:50:31 -0700 X-UIDL: 7ae704017a97d33736f5192933962fc9 For the exchange of loopers' ideas, we have several different proposals now: 1. I started out proposing a tape exchange circle. Several list participants have expressed their interest. Such a circle would mean little cost and little work except doing the recording, and putting it into the mail. Unless we decide to use DAT, the result would be nice to listen to privately (which would be fine for me) but not good enough for some kind of publication, but maybe this isn't intended. 2. Dan proposed to put it all on a web page which he would do as a school survey project. This would be an elegant solution, wouldn't involve any money, get us some publicity, and would nicely supplement our web page. Kim asked how permanent this page would be. Dan? 3. David brought up the idea to do a CD. This would require some work from someone who would realize the CD, and some money from the participants. "Imagine if a CD costs $2500 and 10 musicians divided 76minutes and the total cost..." Ray Peck offered to do the work, "I can put together a comp CD of listfolk." (What about your looppool project Matthias?) So there we are. What do we do? -Michael From ???@??? Wed Oct 23 23:32:30 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 23 16:16:43 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGCXS-0006Kn-00; Wed, 23 Oct 1996 16:16:42 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: ToddM@LaserMaster.Com Organization: LaserMaster Corporation Date: 23 Oct 1996 18:15:43CST6CDT Subject: Todd's VORTEX Patches...Free for the Asking. Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Mac v2.0 Message-ID: <217F44C697E@laserm.lmt.com> Resent-Message-ID: <"ALHxQB.A.e0F.kbqby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/810 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 16:16:42 -0700 X-UIDL: d34c3b0dd72db6dc7c3e01d0e0f1913d Here ya go, kids. Useability: Works for me. Caveat: If they don't work, don't say I never gave you anything. Warning: Massive Processes. The first two patches concern Atmosphere 2. The third uses Choir 2 ATMOSPHERE2 ATMOSPHERE2 CHOIR2 Wirey Clean Guitar Synthy Echo Guitar Burbly Volume Swell Mix 43 64 49 Output 64 64 64 Mod FX Lvl 50 64 45 EchoFX Lvl 55 64 45 Morph 64 64 20 Envelope 22 10 35 Echo 08 08 02 Echo2 08 06 06 Feedback 40 64 34 Feedback2 47 40 29 Rate1 04 30 28 Depth1 41 29 26 Rate2 03 08 34 Depth2 23 50 29 Res2 28 64 14 Okay kids, this is it for now. If the formatting went to hell, I'll have to find some other way of doing it, but this works for me, try it out. "The Vortex Guy" Todd Madson PressMate Product Specialist LaserMaster Big Color Technical Support Corporate Web Site: http://www.lasermaster.com/ LaserMaster BBS: (612) TEK-LINE OTIS Faxback Service: (612) 943-3737 From ???@??? Wed Oct 23 23:31:49 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 23 12:06:05 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vG8cu-00078F-00; Wed, 23 Oct 1996 12:06:04 -0700 Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 12:02:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610231902.MAA23470@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Bug or Feature -- anyone else experience this? Resent-Message-ID: <"sCMLbB.A.zfG.Gwmby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/806 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 12:06:04 -0700 X-UIDL: fcc040984b03a9d801a8757889fe4ea5 Matthias writes: > >>>The trouble is when I bring in the note quietly, my Echoplex -- while passing >>>the sound to my amp -- waits until there is enough gain to RECORD it so the >>>beginning of the sound seems to be clipped-off. Has anyone tried companding their signal when going through the 'plex? I'd think that if you dbx encoded before and decoded after, you'd bump your low level signal up enough to defeat this "feature". From ???@??? Wed Oct 23 23:31:27 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 23 11:18:01 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vG7sI-0003xY-00; Wed, 23 Oct 1996 11:17:54 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 16:17:47 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: does hi volume change your perormance? Resent-Message-ID: <"X_-QxB.A.-TD.sBmby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/800 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 11:17:54 -0700 X-UIDL: 21f490ad07b1ce05e8ee11294f603f3c >interested in dance styles, where the volume actually makes you feel the >rhythm in your body and gives you the urge to dance and move. This is very popular here. People love to dance in front of walls of 15" cabinets at clipping volume. The problem I see is that resonances of the mid and high frequences harm the hearing while the volume is rather desired for chest and bum. I recommend to the technicians (what they do any way, intuitively) to abandone linearity and increase the 80-100Hz frequency range by 15dB to achieve the dance pressure without distroying the music. The worst is that the population also is viciated in the harmonics that the usual distortions create. If you put up a system without distortion they do not really dive into it. We will need a distortion box for this... Matthias From ???@??? Wed Oct 23 23:31:29 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 23 11:18:05 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vG7sJ-0003xk-00; Wed, 23 Oct 1996 11:17:55 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 16:17:54 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: lobbying for upgrades. Resent-Message-ID: <"6I0YD.A.7UD.0Bmby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/801 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 11:17:55 -0700 X-UIDL: 71fa54f6ef25c684e49ab6d3f762361f >>>So, if Lexicon's JamMan is out of production (more's the pity), then maybe a >>>steady stream of orders for the Echoplex or the Boomerang or other loopers >>>can save those pieces of hardware. >>> >>>David Kirkdorffer > >This is precisely the sort of language that the relevant powers speak. If >we want to get continued interest from manufacturers in making loop >products, they need to see ongoing sales. One way for that to happen is for >us to generally popularize looping, and show others what loopers are and >why they are fun to use. A very large number of Echoplex sales happen that >way, because a user convinced his buddy to get one too. Performing with >them shows people the possibilities. And the loop music makers as we are talking about a lot on this list will not be sufficiant We need to gain one the following public: - Composers and performers of any kind of style that use loops or samples to reinforce their performance or help for composing. The problem here is, that you will hardly notice the influence in the final result, so the user is not a carrier for propaganda of its own kind, as a loop music freak is. I my experience the loop music is not effective to call these people either, because they feel that "loops only serve for new age" or so. For them we need demonstrations or a video "how to apply loops in rock music" or so. - Amateurs that start playing and grab the loop quicker than the instrument they are using and therefore are happy to be able to create something musiclike on the loop from the start (some techno rythm for example). These can be kids, and they rather need a 3 key floor pedal. When this gets popular we talk about millions of units. It can get popular, if people like us make a music that amateurs accept as such and recognize how simple it can be to make it. Jon Durant, what would you say as an old professional? Matthias From ???@??? Wed Oct 23 23:31:22 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 23 11:17:44 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vG7rz-0003vC-00; Wed, 23 Oct 1996 11:17:35 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 16:18:04 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: loop manufacturers Resent-Message-ID: <"fzZeYD.A.CQD.GBmby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/799 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 11:17:35 -0700 X-UIDL: bc0a241f0551b0098d7f82805c99fa8a >How many are on this list and could we send emails as a group to both >companies so that we might at least create create some kind of stir? > This would look like begging and could be negative. 50 will not necessarily impress because we need something like 10000 clients or 100/month or so. Matthias From ???@??? Wed Oct 23 23:31:42 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 23 11:21:07 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vG7vN-0004DV-00; Wed, 23 Oct 1996 11:21:05 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 16:21:11 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"mNmS8B.A.JrD.6Emby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/805 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 11:21:05 -0700 X-UIDL: e9ed4a5473003859a009fdfd6953ee00 Ted Killian offers: >unless someone else was interested in doing it, >I guess I could offer my graphic services >(gratis of course) for a Loopy CD. I have done >several (and my "day job" title is Art Director). > >If the group would provide the text, photos, >a generally agreed upon concept, That will need a separate mailing list... ;*) I would like to have a spiral in the background. Anyone knows how to create a spiral on the puter? Matthias From ???@??? Wed Oct 23 23:31:31 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 23 11:19:44 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vG7u3-00047R-00; Wed, 23 Oct 1996 11:19:43 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 16:21:16 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: When? Where? Resent-Message-ID: <"gie53D.A.qmD.UEmby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/803 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 11:19:43 -0700 X-UIDL: 1d52b870984b34dd3b9755d291ce4999 >matthias... sukandar told me he just ran across rolf recently for pickups. did >rolf ever get the email bug? wazdat? From ???@??? Wed Oct 23 23:31:38 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 23 11:20:26 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vG7uj-0004Aj-00; Wed, 23 Oct 1996 11:20:25 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 16:21:20 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time Resent-Message-ID: <"0xcR9C.A.glD.MEmby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/802 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 11:20:25 -0700 X-UIDL: 6bd47e9e3eff1e836e1f62843c8c2265 >No offense to David Jaffe, but for one of his performances, he just popped >in a tape and we had to sit there and listen to it. To me this was not >as interesting as watching him on MIDI violin and his partner on Radio Drum >wreaking computer-enhanced electronic havoc. I guess I'm of the old school >mentality where I expect from a live performance certain elements that can't >be gotten from listening to the same piece from some recording. I consider music a magical act ritual a recording thus is just a documentation about it. The difference is as big as between traveling and watching documentarys about other places on TV. Matthias From ???@??? Wed Oct 23 23:31:34 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 23 11:19:49 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vG7u7-00047u-00; Wed, 23 Oct 1996 11:19:47 -0700 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 16:21:40 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias) Subject: Re: Tape Submissions Resent-Message-ID: <"P9UcbB.A.wpD.tEmby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/804 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 11:19:48 -0700 X-UIDL: 3f5d75e02293cfe6ec4bc75a502cbf1d >I am publishing the first issue of a poetry and music review magazine in >Philadelphia. I would like to solicit tape/CD/press kit submissions for >consideration. > >Trey Gunn has agreed to interview for this first issue, and I would like >contributions from other highly talented individuals and groups. I have a >soft spot for touchboard instrumentalists and looping enthusiasts, so >anything along these lines would be given the highest listening priority. > >Victor Fiorillo >c/o COM >1914 Spruce Street >Philadelphia, PA 19103 > >Please inform me via email if you send any media. This mail was without any reaction on the list. Did someone send in stuff? I hope we do not loose this space. What does the result look like? MAtthias From ???@??? Wed Oct 23 23:32:25 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 23 15:47:16 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGC4x-0004P1-00; Wed, 23 Oct 1996 15:47:15 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 18:48:22 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Infinity Guitar Resent-Message-ID: <"s-kpF.A.87D.V_pby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/807 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 15:47:15 -0700 X-UIDL: 5659398a78d5cc7492688c0dc47b26d4 >> additive/resynthesis techniques being developed at cnmat. Naturally, it >> used the ZIPI network/musical desciption language protocol that we were >> also developing. > >ZIPI sounded like something with a lot of potential. What a shame it >will probably never see the light of day. > >> Personally, I hate guitar synthesizers. It's fun for two minutes while I >> play a note and say "golly, it comes out sounding like a digiridoo!" But >> then I notice myself getting bored and losing interest. The problem is that >> no matter how I play the note, the digiridoo, or tamborine, or whatever, >> sounds EXACTLY the same. All of the expressive techniques I've spent my >> whole life learning to do on guitar strings are totally filtered out. No >> thanks. The infinity was to actually use all the expressive control of the >> guitarist to control the synthesis, which I found quite exciting. > >The only product I know of that fits that description today (access to >cool non-guitar-like sounds yet with allowance for expressive guitar >techniques) is the Roland VG8. It's a shame there really isn't a competing >product. The folks on the Digital Guitar list said that while the VG8 >lives up to the hype as far as being responsive to expressive techniques, >they found it somewhat lacking in programmability. > >Since most of the synthesizer sounds that have caught my interest can be >duplicated by guitars equipped with today's signal processing technology >(effects, volume pedals, breath controllers, Ebow, looping devices, etc.) >I'd probably be more interested in getting a good sampler than a synthesizer, >mainly for cataloging percussion and guitar noises for cut-and-paste. > > >Paolo Valladolid I've been using the GR1 for a couple of years and I certainly find it wanting. Since I also use an Akai S1000 sampler, I am using it more the anything in the GR1 system ... it ends up being an expensive trigger. I agree that the sounds treated with guitar effects etc. and samplers are more agreeable. The guitar as a data entry device into synthesis modules is a good idea in concept as long as we are willing to play according to the inherent limitations of the devices. I have problems with that however ... would rather shape technique and have devices add rather than subtract from it. Oh well Paul From ???@??? Wed Oct 23 23:32:27 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 23 15:49:19 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGC6v-0004YJ-00; Wed, 23 Oct 1996 15:49:17 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 18:50:42 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Mixers Resent-Message-ID: <"nbSRND.A.cGE.YBqby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/808 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 15:49:17 -0700 X-UIDL: 1ee44bc76824ca7982f5b15339b620ea >Is anybody out there using 1 or 2 space rack mount line level mixers? What >do you think of what you have and what should I look into? Right now I have >a patchbay and a Rane SM-26(?) - an 8 line mixer with no effects sends. >After reading about DT's setup I am considering the possibilities of having >effects sends in a mixer, rather than through the use of a patchbay. > >Any thoughts? I am using the old Alesis 1622 mixer with my setup and I don't know what I would do without it. The mixer becomes the heart of all signal routing and frankly in an instrument all by itself. Sonic development requires it for me. I need the kind of routing it has to be able to use some of an effect and be able to switch on the fly to something else ... especially when playing live. Paul From ???@??? Wed Oct 23 23:32:28 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 23 15:50:27 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGC82-0004dF-00; Wed, 23 Oct 1996 15:50:26 -0700 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 18:52:28 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Locatons for looping. Resent-Message-ID: <"zGxSy.A.MOE.LDqby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/809 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 15:50:26 -0700 X-UIDL: 72ba23b65f220a1ba6278e3e10247ea6 >Paul Poplawski, Phd writes: >>I think Borders would be a great place for a loopy atmospheric thang > >And you can pick up your copy of Bailey's "Improvisation" at the same >time (I got mine there yesterday). > >It's a pretty good store for something owned by K-Mart. > >(actually, for those who don't know, the original Border's was a >fantastic independant bookstore in Ann Arbor, MI. K-Mart bought them >a couple years ago and started cloning somewhat mainstreamed versions >all over the damn country) > >Still, pretty good for a chain. The Tower Records of bookstores. yes, the Bailey book is available thru them ... although I found hidden in my bookshelf a hard bound version of the book I bought when itfirst came out. funny what we forget we already have paul From ???@??? Wed Oct 23 23:32:33 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 23 17:48:44 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGDyU-0004B0-00; Wed, 23 Oct 1996 17:48:42 -0700 Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 17:45:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610240045.RAA06726@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <9609228460.AA846031861@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"7TZUR.A.PzD.xxrby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/811 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 17:48:42 -0700 X-UIDL: fa07f9db16fd6f08eb77c205bffc6a12 "Todd Madson" writes: >Hmmmm. $250 a pop and about 7.5 minutes for a single piece. >Could be do-able, but I've been finding that I've been doing >20+ minute piece since I've gotten into looping for long, very As I said before, I can burn CDs digitally from DATs on my PowerMac. I can also do digital editing (e.g., doing nice smooth fades, click removal, etc), and can allegedly do super noise reduction using SoundHack (some folks on DAW claim they do better than Digidesign's $900 DINR plugin), although I haven't tried yet. I'd be happy to do a CD for the list. Blanks are $8-9 at the moment. I'd be even more happy if buyers would kick in a little to help me buy better burning software, so I'm not forced to put 2 second blanks between songs, but this isn't necessary. Anyone interested in this? If the quantities don't get too high, we can do multiple disks. (also, I can do this service for individuals for a reasonable price) From ???@??? Wed Oct 23 23:32:38 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 23 18:52:26 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGEy7-0007YF-00; Wed, 23 Oct 1996 18:52:23 -0700 Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 18:46:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610240146.SAA10726@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Locatons for looping. Resent-Message-ID: <"cW4szC.A.lyG.gqsby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/812 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 18:52:23 -0700 X-UIDL: ea2aa19838cc48d9afe58a45f6646647 >yes, the Bailey book is available thru them ... although I found hidden in >my bookshelf a hard bound version of the book I bought when itfirst came >out. funny what we forget we already have I think he updateed it when it was reprinted, but I'm not 100% sure. I can dig up the info if you need. From ???@??? Wed Oct 23 23:32:41 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 23 19:07:54 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGFD6-0000gd-00; Wed, 23 Oct 1996 19:07:52 -0700 Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 19:04:51 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: exchanging ideas/PROPOSAL In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19961019054952.00738530@xenon.chromatic.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"eaWGFB.A.5Y.B6sby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/813 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 19:07:52 -0700 X-UIDL: 0a1eedfb594714ed01befb3039ff4371 hi all, sorry for the delay. the pages i'd make would be stored on a server here at the school of music, u of a. i'm thinking that they'd be around for a few years at the least. i have no idea beyond that. hopefully - if i can gather enough cool stuff and make it look neat - it wouldn't be concerning to the local lab folk as to the disk space, etc. i'll ask. in the mean time, i'll send out the first survey in a little bit. thanks to everyone for the enthusiasm! (this is sure to get me an A!) **************************************************************** ** Dan Howarth, History/Music, University of Arizona, Tucson ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction) ** **************************************************************** From ???@??? Wed Oct 23 23:32:49 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 23 19:12:19 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGFHO-0000wQ-00; Wed, 23 Oct 1996 19:12:18 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 18:32:36 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time Resent-Message-ID: <"YAcz3D.A.2x.MAtby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/814 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 19:12:18 -0700 X-UIDL: aa32a88f950c2a724f193125c189443e >>DJ Spooky, as I mentioned in an earlier post, was fully transcendental. > >He's got a new live-performance CD out under his real name (I think >it's Paul Miller). It's super-limited (500 copies or something), so >if you're interested, go in search now. I got mine at Aquarius in SF >(by mail). I WILL! What's the title/label? ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Wed Oct 23 23:32:55 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 23 19:49:08 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGFr1-0002uf-00; Wed, 23 Oct 1996 19:49:07 -0700 Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 19:42:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610240242.TAA14790@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time Resent-Message-ID: <"Bm9yiB.A.idC.fftby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/815 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 19:49:07 -0700 X-UIDL: 5ef1763768c0d0c5d279afcfb5a199b3 Dave Trenkel writes: >>>DJ Spooky, as I mentioned in an earlier post, was fully transcendental. >> >>He's got a new live-performance CD out under his real name (I think >>it's Paul Miller). It's super-limited (500 copies or something), so >>if you're interested, go in search now. I got mine at Aquarius in SF >>(by mail). > >I WILL! What's the title/label? Gosh, now you've put me on the spot! PAUL D. MILLER (DJ SPOOKY) "Death In The Light Of The Phonograph" (Asphodel) cd 22.00 We are the only store in the country to -officially- carry this rare, very limited cd from Miller, aka DJ Spooky. Excellent loops and soundscapes created for his recent art exhibit, plus the digipakaging includes two beautiful booklets with Spooky's writing and artwork. His next appearance in SF is around November 15, see gossip section for details. Talk to: -windy- Aquarius Records <><><><> 1055 Valencia Street San Francisco, California 94110 USA tel 415.647.2272 fax 415.647.3447 <><><><> aqua@sirius.com Tell her I sent you. From ???@??? Wed Oct 23 23:33:00 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 23 22:39:11 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGIVa-0003y4-00; Wed, 23 Oct 1996 22:39:10 -0700 Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 22:31:55 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Here we go again Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Eks4WD.A.hhD.Z_vby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/816 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 22:39:10 -0700 X-UIDL: ad16e713c297dce3d268f82653db51c0 I've got another Echoplex wierdness alert: Just now, after leaving the Echoplex on unused for about twenty minutes, I tried recording a loop. Without entering any sound in, and without having the threshold engaged, the thing automatically started recording once the engage button was pressed. But now here's the wierd thing. When I hit record again, I got a very nasty blst of digital white noise. This happened several times in a row. I switched the thing off, and upon re-powering all was well (at least it seems that way). Now, is this something anybody's ever heard of? I've never run into this anomaly before. Will this be solved by clipping the internal thermal thing? I also noticed a few days ago that a loop which was running decayed to almost total silence over the course of some fifteen to twenty minutes, but the feedback control was definitely all the way to the right. I've read that when more and more overdubs are put into the loops that the feedback is automatically scaled back to aout 95%; is that what I'm looking at now? Any advice greatly appreciated, --Andre From ???@??? Wed Oct 23 23:33:03 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 23 23:02:24 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGIs3-0005EI-00; Wed, 23 Oct 1996 23:02:23 -0700 Date: 24 Oct 96 01:57:03 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Message-ID: <961024055703_100041.247_JHB33-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"v-HrlD.A.KyE.oYwby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/817 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 23:02:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 44cfb68b3f97cc90c411afb822e5e35c Matthias asked, > Anyone knows how to create a spiral on the puter? (for all those poor German illiterates, "puter" in German is not only the short form for "computer" but also the German expression for a (male) turkey, and consequently "com puter" calls for a turkey to come here.) Yes I can produce spirals on a computer, and not only spirals but many other interesting abstract images, with my fractal animation program HOP (for PC only, sorry Mac users) - be sure to check out http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm for info, downloads, and a gallery. I seem to remember that you have a Mac Matthias, so you can only look at the still images. Not many spirals there yet but I could make some and upload them somewhere if you really want. HOP is more interesting for animations though. I'll use it to do a live fractal lightshow (using a video beamer and live PC) for a concert this saturday. Anyone in the Cologne, Germany area is invited to come! -Michael From ???@??? Thu Oct 24 01:23:20 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 23 23:33:15 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGJLt-0006Za-00; Wed, 23 Oct 1996 23:33:13 -0700 Date: 24 Oct 96 02:29:04 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: Mixers Message-ID: <961024062903_100041.247_JHB82-4@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"6pgNf.A.4DG.20wby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/818 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 23:33:13 -0700 X-UIDL: eaa47225c840cdec69d6c2ee2e15b6f8 >Is anybody out there using 1 or 2 space rack mount line level mixers? >What do you think of what you have and what should I look into? I heard that there is a Rocktron mixer with 4 effect sends, but I don't know more about it. Seems to be the only affordable mixer with 4 effect sends. Sounds like I want it too. -Michael From ???@??? Thu Oct 24 01:23:25 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 23 23:52:27 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGJeU-0007Ms-00; Wed, 23 Oct 1996 23:52:26 -0700 Date: 24 Oct 96 02:48:06 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Todd's VORTEX Patches...Free for the Ask Message-ID: <961024064806_100041.247_JHB51-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"ltd7u.A.4yG.0Gxby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/819 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 23:52:26 -0700 X-UIDL: f0237fd806249168bfc2167354e473dd thanks for sharing your Vortex patches Todd. You forgot the settings for Resonance1 - what are they? -Michael From ???@??? Thu Oct 24 01:23:27 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 24 00:34:57 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGKJd-0001Bd-00; Thu, 24 Oct 1996 00:34:57 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 09:34:04 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Na Nice Lexicon Story In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"YUaoW.A.AEB.xvxby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/820 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 00:34:57 -0700 X-UIDL: 61ef71d132afc0def5252a73b5c06cfc When we say we can't trust these people..... I've been buying since the extensive chat we had about the Vortex, an unit to Guitar Center of Hallendale (florida, i think). This post is intended, although off topic, to warn people like me that were stupid enough to buy things in the states, but living elsewhere (I'm french). The price was really interesting compared to french prices. Unfortunately, the unit I received is dead. The knob that is supposed to let dial between the programms only offer half of them (you have again 16 on position 1, 15 on 2, 8 on 3, etc) Besides, if you use a pedal to switch between registers, what you get is the unit jumping every 20 seconds from the pedal set programm to the knob set programm. Complete disaster. But the funny thing is Lexicon told they won't support any warranty in my case. What i'm supposed to do is have someone repair it and pay. Just nice. I've checked on my warranty card. Nowhere is written that the warranty is void in such circontances. Of course Guitar Center claim no responsibility too, and they are... sorry! So i'm stuck with a unit costing 234 bucks with shipping, and that was dead.... Warning to all people who'd consider to buy in the states: Don't unless you are of course american Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Thu Oct 24 01:23:36 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 24 00:36:22 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGKL0-0001Gw-00; Thu, 24 Oct 1996 00:36:22 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 09:35:25 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Tape Submissions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"7pBuDB.A.OJB.Exxby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/821 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 00:36:22 -0700 X-UIDL: 851564feb5f1e0e6b862cd17ef41fd6a On Wed, 23 Oct 1996, Matthias wrote: > >I am publishing the first issue of a poetry and music review magazine in > >Philadelphia. I would like to solicit tape/CD/press kit submissions for > >consideration. > > > >Trey Gunn has agreed to interview for this first issue, and I would like > >contributions from other highly talented individuals and groups. I have a > >soft spot for touchboard instrumentalists and looping enthusiasts, so > >anything along these lines would be given the highest listening priority. > > > >Victor Fiorillo > >c/o COM > >1914 Spruce Street > >Philadelphia, PA 19103 > > > >Please inform me via email if you send any media. > > This mail was without any reaction on the list. Did someone send in stuff? > I hope we do not loose this space. > What does the result look like? > > MAtthias > > > > I'm going to Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Thu Oct 24 01:39:58 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 24 01:39:57 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGLKW-0003fN-00; Thu, 24 Oct 1996 01:39:56 -0700 Date: 24 Oct 96 04:32:19 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Na Nice Lexicon Story Message-ID: <961024083219_100041.247_JHB80-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"VQ0-AB.A.nYD.Usyby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/823 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 01:39:56 -0700 X-UIDL: 25c0bfc8cebb93915901437fb35b0d00 Status: O X-Status: Olivier wrote about the Vortex, > The knob that is supposed to let dial between the programms only offer > half of them (you have again 16 on position 1, 15 on 2, 8 on 3, etc) Exactly the symptom my first Vortex had which I got 2 weeks ago!! Fortunately, I bought it here in Cologne and could give it back to the shop, where they gave me another one last week. Now, for my second Vortex ... > if you use a pedal to switch between registers, what you get is the unit > jumping every 20 seconds from the pedal set programm to the knob set > programm. Exactly what my *second* Vortex does !!! (Aaarrgh) It *is* still usable with this symptom, but I think I should give this one back too because it just isn't stable and might get worse anytime. I'm afraid though that they give me a third Vortex which has the first (worse) symptoms again ... or both :-( Seems like when Lexicon decided to stop producing this thing, they didn't feel like testing and controlling any longer. Thanks for the warning Olivier, and good luck. -Michael From ???@??? Thu Oct 24 01:39:56 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 24 01:26:24 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGL7P-000395-00; Thu, 24 Oct 1996 01:26:23 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 01:23:05 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Here we go again Resent-Message-ID: <"o67qkC.A.-4C.Wfyby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/822 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 01:26:23 -0700 X-UIDL: 640f40b771d19127a1ff7c9b2d207cbf Status: O X-Status: >I've got another Echoplex wierdness alert: > >Just now, after leaving the Echoplex on unused for about twenty minutes, >I tried recording a loop. Without entering any sound in, and without >having the threshold engaged, the thing automatically started recording >once the engage button was pressed. > >But now here's the wierd thing. When I hit record again, I got a very >nasty blst of digital white noise. This happened several times in a >row. > >I switched the thing off, and upon re-powering all was well (at least it >seems that way). Now, is this something anybody's ever heard of? I've >never run into this anomaly before. Will this be solved by clipping the >internal thermal thing? This is a weird one. It doesn't sound like a bug. It seems like a one-off event where something screwed up the processor's memory. (cosmic rays, sun spots, poltergeists, static discharches, secret military tests, etc.) Could have been a thermal thing, but I sort of doubt it. If it keeps happening, there might be something wrong with your unit. Good chance it was just random weirdness and you won't see it again. >I also noticed a few days ago that a loop which was running decayed to >almost total silence over the course of some fifteen to twenty minutes, >but the feedback control was definitely all the way to the right. I've >read that when more and more overdubs are put into the loops that the >feedback is automatically scaled back to aout 95%; is that what I'm >looking at now? This is a problem that was definitely there on prototypes, and at some point it was fixed. I have to get Matthias' help here, because some of it was a software problem, and I'm not sure when it got fixed. I know that with the mythical upgrade, this doesn't happen. Thing is, it doesn't necessarily happen with the shipping software either. Matthias, do you know if this was fixed in the shipping soft? My uncertainty is because I think there were several different problems which caused this. One of them may have been the thermal/cut-the-ic-pin problem. That particular chip handles both the front panel switches and the feedback knob, so I think that the same sort of conditions that cause the Undo button to freak out also might cause loop degrading. I never had a chance to verify that, so I don't know, but cutting that pin certainly won't hurt and might fix this for you. The other bit of uncertainty is that there actually was a software upgrade very early in the echoplex production. You can see the software version when you turn the power on, the current software will show LD3 3.2. The first 60-100 units had an earlier version, LD3 3.0. Unfortunately, I don't remember what was fixed in this upgrade. Could have been the loop degradation, but I don't know. What software version do you have Andre? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Oct 24 02:43:28 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 24 01:58:43 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGLcf-0004Cn-00; Thu, 24 Oct 1996 01:58:41 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 01:55:43 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: bios on the web! Resent-Message-ID: <"NFzy5D.A.H6D.69yby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/824 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 01:58:41 -0700 X-UIDL: 004fe66d9b56c18d37482c0ec292b178 Finally got the bio pages up! Read about yourself and your fellow loopers at: http://www.annihilist.com/loop/profiles/Profiles.html Thanks to Andre for initiating the project and compiling them, and to Michael for superbly converting it to HTML. Great job guys! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Oct 24 02:43:30 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 24 02:15:01 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGLsS-0004gM-00; Thu, 24 Oct 1996 02:15:00 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 02:12:00 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Meat Beat Resent-Message-ID: <"6ioGmD.A.jTE.MNzby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/825 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 02:15:00 -0700 X-UIDL: 7e2caf30fbaf9609ff7d63806a493ee8 I got Meat Beat Manifesto's latest album - Subliminal Sandwich - the other day. Its really quite good; I'm sitting here grooving away to it now, so I thought I'd recommend it to y'all. It's sort of in the ambient-techno vein, with lots of other stuff thrown in. Bits of dub, hip-hop, trip-hop, industrial, techno, and good old rock and funk. Killer loops happenin' all through it. Its a double cd, cost you about $18, and worth every cent. Jack Dangers (who is meat beat) is a jamman user, by the way. Several tracks even have Theremin!!!! kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Oct 24 09:56:53 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 24 03:46:02 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGNIW-0002mw-00; Thu, 24 Oct 1996 03:46:00 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Oct 96 06:25:53 EDT From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) Message-Id: <9610241025.AA29570@ibx.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Tape Submissions Resent-Message-ID: <"vhOG1B.A.mYC.ch0by"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/826 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 03:46:00 -0700 X-UIDL: b139f8dc85b07e252539f2f6429f1f54 >>I am publishing the first issue of a poetry and music review magazine in >>Philadelphia. I would like to solicit tape/CD/press kit submissions for >>consideration. >> >>Trey Gunn has agreed to interview for this first issue, and I would like >>contributions from other highly talented individuals and groups. I have a >>soft spot for touchboard instrumentalists and looping enthusiasts, so >>anything along these lines would be given the highest listening priority. >> >>Victor Fiorillo >>c/o COM >>1914 Spruce Street >>Philadelphia, PA 19103 >> >>Please inform me via email if you send any media. >This mail was without any reaction on the list. Did someone send in stuff? >I hope we do not loose this space. >What does the result look like? >MAtthias I received a few responses, no music yet. I have received submissions from other lists. Anyone is welcome to send material. All will be thoughtfully considered. Victor Fiorillo From ???@??? Thu Oct 24 09:56:54 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 24 04:14:41 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGNkF-0005ag-00; Thu, 24 Oct 1996 04:14:39 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Oct 96 07:04:44 EDT From: c62op27@ibx.com (Victor Fiorillo) Message-Id: <9610241104.AA29863@ibx.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: bios on the web! Resent-Message-ID: <"iPCik.A.fIF.R90by"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/827 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 04:14:39 -0700 X-UIDL: c2b9d29e1458ce9570551c6029a3b3f3 How does one submit a profile? From ???@??? Thu Oct 24 09:57:04 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 24 06:00:16 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGPOQ-0001am-00; Thu, 24 Oct 1996 06:00:14 -0700 Date: 24 Oct 96 08:54:35 EDT From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: lobbying for upgrades. Message-ID: <961024125434_74074.1316_GHQ33-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"8ymMVD.A.kSB.se2by"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/829 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 06:00:14 -0700 X-UIDL: 96b04dac6ef05da8e8e0b8dc87c381bf Matthias writes: >Jon Durant, what would you say as an old professional? First, I'm not old. I just feel that way sometimes when my two boys run me ragged!!! Second, and more to the point: Getting Composers on our side is a tricky issue. For example: Bill Frisell has been using a JamMan for years, mostly as a compositional tool. In his live performances, he generally still uses his trusty old Electro Harmonix thingy. Why? Because he can take a loop and speed it up or slow it down using the delay time (something no cuurrent looping device can do). So his use of the device is completely hidden to the general public. >For them we need demonstrations or a video "how to apply loops in rock >music" or so. Did anyone see the Lexicon JamMan Video? This was one of the greatest embarrasments of my professional career. What started as exactly what you're calling for turned into a complete disaster. Yet another case of having people who don't understand the product take responsibility for marketing it. In this case, the Marketing VP at the last minute decided to give the entire project to his buddy, a notorious publisher in the music world, who also dabbles in convention TV, and let him decide how to make a "snappy" video. I had already contracted David Torn to do the guitar portion, and the producer brought in a DJ to do that portion. From there everything went to hell. To this day, I have refused to let Torn see the video. The last segment was Steve Frankel (International Sales) and myself in the demo room at Lexicon, caught on hi-8. We added this section, because it was the original outline. The horrible results of the "big" production required us to add this miserable little piece to give some sort of reason why someone might want to buy this thing. >- Amateurs that start playing and grab the loop quicker than the >instrument they are using and therefore are happy to be able to create >something musiclike on the loop from the start (some techno rythm for >example). I did a dealer show in Florida a couple of years ago, and had an interesting experience. One person came up and saw my little demo and was instantly hooked. It turns out that he plays in a cover band (which I suspect means that he makes a lot more money than those of us who are trying to create original music!) and they do a bunch of "alternative" music, such as the Cure. He immediately grasped how useful it would be to grab some of those repetative licks and be able to play the counterpoint lines with them. He bought one immediately. And I realised that if we could hook a band like the Cure to start using one and talking about it, then it would be a big lift. So my British distributor tried to get me into the sessions for their last record (recorded at Jane Seymour's house!), but they had started work and didn't want to be interrupted. Of course, the record stiffed, and they *never* talk about gear, so it wasn't a big loss. Meanwhile, the way to get kids to get into it is through the dealers. And we all know how likely that is to happen: It isn't. Besides, there's a major price barrier for beginners: You can't sell them a looper that costs more than their guitar, and that means the thing has to cost about $200 max. Probably more like $100. So where does this leave us? Personally, I'm frightened by the outlook in the present tense. I do know that there are a couple of guys at Lexicon who believe in the potential. Of course, they happen to be the two guys who created the JamMan and modify PCM 42s. Believe it or not, the answer really comes from one place: the dealers. (I know, I know...) The management of Lexicon is completely conviced that the word of Sam Ash and Guitar Center is the word of God. If we could convince these guys to start pestering the manufacturers, then we might see movement. True story: At one point, I tried to put forth a proposal that went way beyond reason, but that I thought would work: I suggested that an upgrade to the JamMan, adding the most requested features (which had already been developed and tested by the product's creator in a personal quest for the coolest thing going) should be done, not because we'd sell more, but because it was the professional thing to do. Stand behind your customers. It would have generated excellent press, and would have said a whole lot about why Lexicon is the professional choice. And it really wouldn't have costed a whole lot of money--you could write it off to the PR account! The idea gained steam, until the words "JamMan Upgrade" were raised in a management meeting and were met with howls of laughter. NEXT! OK, I'm leaking confidential secrets of life at Lex, and I'm sure Kim could regale us all with some charmers from Oberheim/Gibson land, but this is the reality: Looping is a sore subject for these companies, and it won't improve until Alesis comes out with a winner and makes everyone look stupid. (Did I just say that? JD, you've come a long way in 9 months...) From ???@??? Thu Oct 24 09:57:01 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 24 05:59:12 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGPNQ-0001YG-00; Thu, 24 Oct 1996 05:59:12 -0700 Date: 24 Oct 96 08:54:37 EDT From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: Na Nice Lexicon Story Message-ID: <961024125437_74074.1316_GHQ33-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"_pvS1C.A.CRB.ke2by"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/828 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 05:59:12 -0700 X-UIDL: c173134c631f345409c847d6dd36d202 >But the funny thing is Lexicon told they won't support any warranty in my >case. What i'm supposed to do is have someone repair it and pay. Just >nice. I've checked on my warranty card. Nowhere is written that the >warranty is void in such circontances. International sales by US delaers is a subject of incredible controversy at Lex land, and I'm sure at many other companies as well. The reason is really quite simple: Every unit sold by Sam Ash or Guitar center is a unit *not* sold through the distributor. Which means he's losing money. Which means he's bitching. Which means they have to slap Guitar Center on the wrist. But wait, Guitar Center is GOD. You can't slap them on the wrist. So, what to do? Well, to cut down on trans-shipping, the company policy is just what you've stated: They can't offer warranty service to a customer in France: only the French distributor can. Which means if you bought it from a French dealer, you'd be covered. But you didn't, so you're paying the price. Ugly, huh? Ultimately, it boils down to an age-old problem: too many hands in the middle. (This results in several issues, not the least of which is price.) I had suggested that Lexicon do a Cambridge Soundworks, i.e. sell direct. Cut everyone out of the middle. Yeah, it makes for a major shift in company structure, but let's face it: your customer support doesn't change. Who goes to their dealer with a question? No one. So why should they get 40 points (plus another 8% rep comission)? To put it on the shelf and not have a working unit? Then when they *do* demonstrate it, make a mockery of the product? (See an earlier diatribe about my experiences in dealer hell...) As for the problems you're experiencing: The program select knob appears to be slightly problematic. Apparently there's an issue regarding this knob, the details of which I know nothing, but I experienced the same difficulties on my Vortex, JamMan and Alex (all of which use the same pot). I thought it was just my prototypes, but apparently not... Word is, it's an easy fix, and they turn it around pretty quickly. >Seems like when Lexicon decided to stop producing this thing, they didn't >feel like testing and controlling any longer. Actually, they were all tested ages ago: they've been sitting in a warehouse for many many moons... From ???@??? Thu Oct 24 09:57:13 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 24 06:55:19 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGQFi-0003hZ-00; Thu, 24 Oct 1996 06:55:18 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 09:47:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: lobbying for upgrades. Resent-Message-ID: <"E40vlB.A.mQD.YP3by"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/830 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 06:55:18 -0700 X-UIDL: 3d9192650cd5cbd9d64b9ad29ef37d25 >Matthias writes: >>Jon Durant, what would you say as an old professional? > >First, I'm not old. I just feel that way sometimes when my two boys run me >ragged!!! > >Second, and more to the point: Getting Composers on our side is a tricky issue. >For example: Bill Frisell has been using a JamMan for years, mostly as a >compositional tool. In his live performances, he generally still uses his >trusty >old Electro Harmonix thingy. Why? Because he can take a loop and speed it up or >slow it down using the delay time (something no cuurrent looping device >can do). >So his use of the device is completely hidden to the general public. > >>For them we need demonstrations or a video "how to apply loops in rock >>music" or so. > >Did anyone see the Lexicon JamMan Video? This was one of the greatest >embarrasments of my professional career. What started as exactly what you're >calling for turned into a complete disaster. Yet another case of having people >who don't understand the product take responsibility for marketing it. In this >case, the Marketing VP at the last minute decided to give the entire project to >his buddy, a notorious publisher in the music world, who also dabbles in >convention TV, and let him decide how to make a "snappy" video. I had already >contracted David Torn to do the guitar portion, and the producer brought >in a DJ >to do that portion. From there everything went to hell. To this day, I have >refused to let Torn see the video. The last segment was Steve Frankel >(International Sales) and myself in the demo room at Lexicon, caught on >hi-8. We >added this section, because it was the original outline. The horrible >results of >the "big" production required us to add this miserable little piece to >give some >sort of reason why someone might want to buy this thing. > >>- Amateurs that start playing and grab the loop quicker than the >instrument >they are using and therefore are happy to be able to create >something >musiclike >on the loop from the start (some techno rythm for >example). > >I did a dealer show in Florida a couple of years ago, and had an interesting >experience. One person came up and saw my little demo and was instantly hooked. >It turns out that he plays in a cover band (which I suspect means that he makes >a lot more money than those of us who are trying to create original music!) and >they do a bunch of "alternative" music, such as the Cure. He immediately >grasped >how useful it would be to grab some of those repetative licks and be able to >play the counterpoint lines with them. He bought one immediately. And I >realised >that if we could hook a band like the Cure to start using one and talking about >it, then it would be a big lift. So my British distributor tried to get me into >the sessions for their last record (recorded at Jane Seymour's house!), >but they >had started work and didn't want to be interrupted. Of course, the record >stiffed, and they *never* talk about gear, so it wasn't a big loss. > >Meanwhile, the way to get kids to get into it is through the dealers. And >we all >know how likely that is to happen: It isn't. Besides, there's a major price >barrier for beginners: You can't sell them a looper that costs more than their >guitar, and that means the thing has to cost about $200 max. Probably more like >$100. > >So where does this leave us? Personally, I'm frightened by the outlook in the >present tense. I do know that there are a couple of guys at Lexicon who believe >in the potential. Of course, they happen to be the two guys who created the >JamMan and modify PCM 42s. Believe it or not, the answer really comes from one >place: the dealers. (I know, I know...) The management of Lexicon is completely >conviced that the word of Sam Ash and Guitar Center is the word of God. If we >could convince these guys to start pestering the manufacturers, then we might >see movement. > >True story: At one point, I tried to put forth a proposal that went way beyond >reason, but that I thought would work: I suggested that an upgrade to the >JamMan, adding the most requested features (which had already been >developed and >tested by the product's creator in a personal quest for the coolest thing >going) >should be done, not because we'd sell more, but because it was the professional >thing to do. Stand behind your customers. It would have generated excellent >press, and would have said a whole lot about why Lexicon is the professional >choice. And it really wouldn't have costed a whole lot of money--you could >write >it off to the PR account! The idea gained steam, until the words "JamMan >Upgrade" were raised in a management meeting and were met with howls of >laughter. NEXT! > >OK, I'm leaking confidential secrets of life at Lex, and I'm sure Kim could >regale us all with some charmers from Oberheim/Gibson land, but this is the >reality: Looping is a sore subject for these companies, and it won't improve >until Alesis comes out with a winner and makes everyone look stupid. (Did >I just >say that? JD, you've come a long way in 9 months...) I read your email with interest .. it is sad that Lex is so short sighted on this score. I would very much like to see an upgrade to this box ... and be able to vary loop lengths after entered using a pedal ... and some other ideas ... it would seem to me as you said that some of the innovations would not be costly and they could reintroduce the thing to the market. Paul From ???@??? Thu Oct 24 20:24:10 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 24 10:30:37 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGTc3-0000LZ-00; Thu, 24 Oct 1996 10:30:35 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 09:48:53 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Meat Beat Resent-Message-ID: <"KO_4SD.A.hE.Jb6by"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/831 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 10:30:35 -0700 X-UIDL: 5cf8fdf722520a5a9c9eb74ba118aed6 >I got Meat Beat Manifesto's latest album - Subliminal Sandwich - the other >day. Its really quite good; I'm sitting here grooving away to it now, so I >thought I'd recommend it to y'all. It's sort of in the ambient-techno vein, >with lots of other stuff thrown in. Bits of dub, hip-hop, trip-hop, >industrial, techno, and good old rock and funk. Killer loops happenin' all >through it. Its a double cd, cost you about $18, and worth every cent. > I second that recommendation. "Nothing", the all-instrumental 2nd disc of the set is one of my current favorites. >Jack Dangers (who is meat beat) is a jamman user, by the way. Several >tracks even have Theremin!!!! > Yeah, They had a theremin onstage when I saw them. I actually thought they overused it a bit, but, hey, if I had one, I'd probably overuse it myself. Didn't see a jamman in Danger's rack, but there was an eventide that he was using for live processing on the rest of the band. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Thu Oct 24 20:24:35 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 24 12:52:36 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGVpS-0003Q5-00; Thu, 24 Oct 1996 12:52:34 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 15:43:46 -0400 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961024154346_340105241@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Mixers Resent-Message-ID: <"DZqhEB.A.IuC.zc8by"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/832 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 12:52:34 -0700 X-UIDL: 43de3b0e84b4f1e7bf899708c025bd6b >>Is anybody out there using 1 or 2 space rack mount >>line level mixers? What do you think of what you >>have and what should I look into? >I heard that there is a Rocktron mixer with 4 effect >sends, but I don't know more about it. Seems to be >the only affordable mixer with 4 effect sends. >Sounds like I want it too. I happen to have on of them. Highly recommended. Good sounding (quiet), 4 fx sends, and is configureable as either a single 12-channel stereo mixer or (at the flick of a switch) as a *pair* of six-channel stereo mixers. Very flexible, and not too expensive (and I think they still make 'em. Ted From ???@??? Thu Oct 24 20:24:37 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 24 13:04:01 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGW0U-0004IX-00; Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:03:58 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961024195832.00ad3710@pureatria.com> X-Sender: sechevar@pureatria.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 12:58:32 -0700 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Sean Echevarria Subject: Re: Mixers Resent-Message-ID: <"4WrcMC.A.JjD.Pp8by"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/833 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:03:58 -0700 X-UIDL: 91664cbca023fbff733033907a6b058a I thought that Rocktron made a mixer but I recently checked their website and there's no such beast anywhere that I could find. Haven't seen the mixer in any catalog either. Anyone know if Rocktron still makes the rackmount mixer? At 03:43 PM 10/24/96 -0400, you wrote: >I happen to have on of them. Highly recommended. >Good sounding (quiet), 4 fx sends, and is configureable >as either a single 12-channel stereo mixer or (at the flick >of a switch) as a *pair* of six-channel stereo mixers. >Very flexible, and not too expensive (and I think >they still make 'em. > >Ted From ???@??? Thu Oct 24 20:25:21 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 24 17:18:51 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGZz8-0007jV-00; Thu, 24 Oct 1996 17:18:50 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 17:13:26 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Here we go again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"llmIBD.A.8EH.4aAcy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/834 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 17:18:50 -0700 X-UIDL: 5eba3fd7a7672ec201a69f6a641f08b3 Kim sez: > My uncertainty is because I think there were several different problems > which caused this. One of them may have been the thermal/cut-the-ic-pin > problem. > The other bit of uncertainty is that there actually was a software upgrade > very early in the echoplex production. You can see the software version > when you turn the power on, the current software will show LD3 3.2. The > first 60-100 units had an earlier version, LD3 3.0. Unfortunately, I don't > remember what was fixed in this upgrade. Could have been the loop > degradation, but I don't know. What software version do you have Andre? Kim -- I've got the 3.2 edition of the software. And I finally cut the IC-pin 5 today (or rather, bent it upwards in a rather fascinatingly diagonal position away from the socket), so things should be cool in any event. (Kncok on wood). Thanks as always for your assistance! --Andre From ???@??? Fri Oct 25 09:34:25 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 24 23:58:44 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGgE7-0002x3-00; Thu, 24 Oct 1996 23:58:43 -0700 Date: 25 Oct 96 02:52:38 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: bios on the web! Message-ID: <961025065238_100041.247_JHB88-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"y1AUjB.A.mqC.cSGcy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/835 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 23:58:43 -0700 X-UIDL: 0992c57f35cdc05ecbd3732eec171f02 Victor wants to know >How does one submit a profile? The footnote at the end of the profiles page says how to: You're welcome to "send email for corrections and additions" to 100041.247@compuserve.com and I'll include the new profile in the next version of the page. Please try to stick to the table structure we have used (Age, Address, Email, etc.). -Michael From ???@??? Fri Oct 25 09:34:28 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 25 00:36:12 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGgoO-0004CF-00; Fri, 25 Oct 1996 00:36:12 -0700 Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 09:33:40 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? In-Reply-To: <961024055703_100041.247_JHB33-1@CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"WZlrO.A.50D.c1Gcy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/836 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 00:36:12 -0700 X-UIDL: 9ce0e1919f3a32acda20f7169d1af3da About this fractal stuff, I got what to do it on mac too. But, should we use such an non-original idea, pleeezzzze! Everyone shows fractal pictures everywhere. it must someone idea of high end illustration. Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Fri Oct 25 09:34:30 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 25 01:10:33 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGhLc-0005EP-00; Fri, 25 Oct 1996 01:10:32 -0700 Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 10:09:08 +0200 (MET DST) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Meat Beat In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"izZJSB.A.y1E.vWHcy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/837 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 01:10:32 -0700 X-UIDL: 61c4c086b440e2300addc1a423480411 I think there is a law that oblige us world wide to have a theremin at home. Am i wrong? I still don't have one, and i'm trembling everyday that someone would tell... Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Fri Oct 25 22:42:42 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 25 17:25:29 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGwZ6-0004hB-00; Fri, 25 Oct 1996 17:25:28 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:37:11 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Oberhiem Matrix-6 Resent-Message-ID: <"AOnIv.A.7AE.UiVcy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: formail -q- -D 8192 msgid.cache X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 17:25:28 -0700 X-UIDL: 4e212de0c03f76618a5d54fa70084ed2 Greetings, I just joined this list tweo days ago and will provide you with more personal info as time permits. But first a question some of you may have experience with. I just got a line on one of these for $250. Seems like a fair price and the previous user has some very nive sounds on it. Does anyone have any experience controlling one of these with a guitar synth. Specifically a Roland GR-1 with the GK2-a pickup. Thanks so much. Peace, Patrick From ???@??? Fri Oct 25 22:42:46 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 25 17:55:45 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGx2O-0006Bv-00; Fri, 25 Oct 1996 17:55:44 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 19:13:16 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Anothe MAtrix 6 Question Resent-Message-ID: <"r9bgQB.A.IsF.JEWcy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: formail -q- -D 8192 msgid.cache X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 17:55:44 -0700 X-UIDL: 0543f23213177ee2ac62db6bfb0fc128 Since my GR-1 can send oout on 6 dofferetn midi channels can I trigger 6 different banks on the Matrix 6? Hopefully.... Peace, Patrick From ???@??? Fri Oct 25 22:42:51 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 25 20:01:27 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGz02-0003XD-00; Fri, 25 Oct 1996 20:01:26 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 21:19:51 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Re: Todd's VORTEX Patches...Free for the Ask Resent-Message-ID: <"bz-pf.A.iQD.16Xcy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: formail -q- -D 8192 msgid.cache X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 20:01:26 -0700 X-UIDL: 65f69ff9909fb838c75a5301fd815a18 >thanks for sharing your Vortex patches Todd. You forgot the settings for >Resonance1 - what are they? -Michael Where might these be located? Patrick From ???@??? Fri Oct 25 22:42:22 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 25 12:33:53 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGs0u-0003lE-00; Fri, 25 Oct 1996 12:33:52 -0700 Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 12:27:40 -0700 (MST) From: Dan Howarth Reply-To: Dan Howarth To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, stickwire-l@netcom.com cc: howarth@U.Arizona.EDU Subject: SURVEY #1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"WNT17C.A.gKD.MTRcy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/838 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 12:33:52 -0700 X-UIDL: 4ed53131e37b3049e2c1d13a4edcc941 hi all, this is the first survey in (hopefully) a series that i'll be compiling for use in a webpage i'm creating for a school project titled 'a presentation on the observation of unusual stringed instruments and unusual equipment.' ........ here's a brief cup of coffee to get this project going. i'd like to start with just a few questions, and field responses to each before continuing on to other topics. please send these back TO ME - howarth@u.arizona.edu (please, no cluttering of our listservs with this stuff. thanks!) please send comments, further topic recommendations, jokes, etc. to the list. please say as much as you'd like, including elaborate details, etc. i've plenty of interest and time to sift. :) also - TELL ME IF YOU DON'T WISH ME TO (IN THE FUTURE) INCORPORATE YOUR REPLY IN MY PROJECT. i will quote and cite everything that's not mine. most likely i will tie your name with a mailto: line as well as a link to your (if any) url, before i use anything of yours. -------------- SURVEY #1 name: age: email address: url: occupation: Musicstuff (instruments and _essential_ equipment, ie Echoplex): 1) How do you like to describe the music you make? How do you describe the instruments and equipment that you use? 2) How important is electronic equipment to your music (classical guitarist or robert fripp)? would you feel limited/restrained with out it? 3) At length, describe your use of electronic equipment in music. include explanations of devices, effects, signal-routing, etc. in order to express how much interaction your music has with the equipment. ---------------- thanks! please send these to howarth@u.arizona.edu another survey will follow soon... this project will be compiled by december, i hope. more soon! **************************************************************** ** Dan Howarth, History/Music, University of Arizona, Tucson ** ** http://www.u.arizona.edu/~howarth (under construction) ** **************************************************************** From ???@??? Fri Oct 25 22:42:43 1996 >From kflint Fri Oct 25 17:38:07 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGwlL-0005Lq-00; Fri, 25 Oct 1996 17:38:07 -0700 Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 17:23:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199610260023.RAA22301@barley.adnc.com> X-Sender: ambient@mail.adnc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: studio seventeen productions Subject: to mix...or not to mix Resent-Message-ID: <"H7NT4D.A.jiE.AtVcy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: formail -q- -D 8192 msgid.cache X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 17:38:07 -0700 X-UIDL: db39ca41a7c937478512725d29b931fe this excerpt fascinated me: >I am using the old Alesis 1622 mixer with my setup and I don't know what >I would do without it. The mixer becomes the heart of all signal routing >and frankly in an instrument all by itself. Sonic development requires it >for me. I need the kind of routing it has to be able to use some of an >effect and be able to switch on the fly to something else ... especially >when playing live. > >Paul my approach is completely the opposite. i've spent the last couple years trying to get my system to do what i need WITHOUT buying a mixer. so far I've been quite successful. i have an A-B-C switch for my three input devices (either electric guitar, acoustic guitar and keyboard or substitute DISCMAN for any of the above) so that takes care of that. for output, i'm using a stereo pan pedal and have created two separate paths: one featuring the Oberheim and the stereo of the Digitech TSR-24S and the other featuring the old RDS-8000 8 second delay. both are fed by the preamp and the Roland GP-16, so I can establish a long loop with full stereo reverb on one side, and then pan over and "solo" on the other side or create 8 second loops etc. i can work ON THE FLY no problem. in fact, my setup is specifically meant for live performance. want stereo reverb? PATH A. want no reverb, just manic distort-o solo guitar? PATH B. BOTH paths have preamp (clean, dirty 1, dirty2) and fuzz stomp box, cheap wah, and all the glorious primitive sounds of the Roland GP-16 available. in almost any imaginable configuration...live in real time. to me, a mixer adds coloration, additional EQ, and most of all MORE CABLES, MORE CONNECTIONS, MORE NOISE. not that i have anything against MIXERS. my partner, Bryan Helm, is very attached to his (ultracool) MACKIE. for him, it's essential. my preferences are based on shortest signal path: fewest cables: direct pathing. just goes to show that there are SO many different ways to go about this... now if I had a PA system, and was running microphones and playing CDs thru the PA.....a mixer would be great. but for guitar only...I can do just about anything imaginable (so far) without one. any thoughts? am I completely in "daisy-chain" anal retentive mode here? short and sweet i am thinking. enough cables as it IS... as ever, dave at seventeen 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * I'll be downstairs if you need me. I'll still be * * downstairs if you DON'T need me. * * (Mr. Blint, Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 From ???@??? Sat Oct 26 23:52:34 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 26 17:19:42 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vHIx4-0004kd-00; Sat, 26 Oct 1996 17:19:42 -0700 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199610270017.RAA27090@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: lobbying for upgrades. To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 17:17:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: from "Paul Poplawski, Phd" at Oct 24, 96 09:47:56 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"tTXJaD.A.VYE.hoqcy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: formail -q- -D 8192 msgid.cache X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 17:19:42 -0700 X-UIDL: 245a10d8746f2ce0f1be5a7cb1922871 Just my 2cents... I hope the under $1000-yet-reasonably-feature-rich looping devices such as the JamDude, Echoplex, and Boomerang remain available on the market. Otherwise, those of us who are saving up for looping devices would be doomed to: 1. Scouring the used market. 2. Making do with the delay effects that do not enjoy a comparable feature set (i.e., delay pedals, delays built into multieffects devices). 3. Paying major $$$ for a tc electronics, Eventide, or other high-end looping box that does have the desirable features but also induces sticker shock. Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Sat Oct 26 23:52:37 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 26 17:46:03 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vHJMY-0005Yw-00; Sat, 26 Oct 1996 17:46:02 -0700 Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 17:43:09 -0700 (PDT) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: Compilation CD suggestion Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"H3lhQC.A.xLF.oCrcy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: formail -q- -D 8192 msgid.cache X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 17:46:02 -0700 X-UIDL: 97d8d5370c86726d1b049407eb6f2650 I know the discussion on a Looper's Delight CD has been off-line for a few days, so sorry to join in late. I have the following suggestion: Have one or two of the people on the list who can burn CDs on a machine dupe up enough for anyone on the list who's interested. Better yet, find out how many people on the list have access to CD-burning facilities, and then divide the duplication task amongst them. The reason I'm suggesting this as an alterntative to a professioal duplication approach is that it would make the overall cost somewhere under $200-$300 dollars (for DAT and blank CD costs), rather than somewhere in the $1,000 to $2,000 dollar range for a professional duplication house. Since this project is (presumably) for list members first and foremost, it doesn't make loads of sense to me to have boxes of hundreds of CDs sitting about. Anyway, that's my idea. Any comments, criticisms or corrections welcome. Loop on, --Andre From ???@??? Sat Oct 26 23:52:38 1996 >From kflint Sat Oct 26 20:56:32 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vHMKu-0003jf-00; Sat, 26 Oct 1996 20:56:32 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19961027025448.00687850@pure.pureatria.com> X-Sender: sechevar@pure.pureatria.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 20:54:48 -0700 To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com From: Sean Echevarria Subject: Congrats Andre LaFosse! Resent-Message-ID: <"pIrf1C.A.hdD.J1tcy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: formail -q- -D 8192 msgid.cache X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 20:56:32 -0700 X-UIDL: 3d2922588c829e40ec18e03c5d8a4892 I just got the December issue of Guitar Player and who's there with a Steinberger guitar in the Spotlight Demo of the Month? None other than "The Man Himself." The editor and assembler of the WORLD-WIDE INDEX OF LOOP ARTISTS Version 1.0, Andre Lafosse. Congratulations! From ???@??? Sun Oct 27 02:18:02 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 27 00:42:34 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vHPrd-0002AF-00; Sun, 27 Oct 1996 00:42:33 -0700 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 00:40:02 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Oberhiem Matrix-6 Resent-Message-ID: <"jv1a0.A.V_B._Ixcy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: formail -q- -D 8192 msgid.cache X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 00:42:33 -0700 X-UIDL: 7a26cde2cb1e803aa278ab1c92f6aa27 Patrick, about Matrix-6: > >I just got a line on one of these for $250. Seems like a fair price and the >previous user has some very nive sounds on it. Sounds like a good price. I'm thinking of getting a Matrix-1000, which I believe is similar but without the on-board editing features. Does the Matrix-6 have midi? I guess it does but I don't know. I actually know considerably less about older Oberheim products than you might expect from someone who designed stuff for them and even knows the fellow who founded the company. Found myself in some awkward spots while demoing oberheim stuff at tradeshows..... (You'd think people would know better than to ask a guy holding a Les Paul obscure questions about OB-8's and Xpanders) >Does anyone have any experience controlling one of these with a guitar >synth. Specifically a Roland GR-1 with the GK2-a pickup. Matrix-1000 actually has a mode for guitar synth, but I have no idea about the matrix-6. 1000's seem pretty good for it since they respond quickly. Actually, this brings up an interesting loop topic. Old analog synths without midi control would seem to be an ideal match for looping. Anybody doing that sort of thing? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Oct 27 02:19:17 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 27 01:20:06 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vHRO1-0004Co-00; Sun, 27 Oct 1996 01:20:05 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 02:17:41 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Echoplex Description Resent-Message-ID: <"TBm_4B.A.Q6D.ikycy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: formail -q- -D 8192 msgid.cache X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 01:20:05 -0800 X-UIDL: 20f9aa4e85536c75bc6da4779be4064a Victor said: >Could someone with decent technical knowledge offer a concise and clear >description of the Echoplex's design, and how it does what it does? Nobody answered poor Victor's plea for info, so I've finally got around to it. If you had web access, you could check the echoplex hype page on the gibson site, at: http://www.gibson.com/products/oberheim/ob2.html Since you don't, a quick explanation that I copied from an email I wrote a long time ago in a job far, far away: ****************************************************** - well designed, performance-oriented user interface - optional foot controller for the rack unit - expandable up to 200secs of loop time - infinite overdub - very cool reverse loop effects - "multiply" function to create long loops over multiple reptitions of a shorter loop - Multiple undo's for removing overdubs from a loop - Up to 9 independant loops available at once - fully midi controllable - sync functions for working with external time sources (or generating clocks) Max delay time is 200 seconds, which can be used in a variety of ways other than having extremely long loops. (multiple undo's, multiple loops, etc.) It ships with 12.5 or 50 seconds, which is upgraded with standard 30-pin simms. Loops can be stored externally with Midi Sample Dump, although it is pretty slow. The Echoplex was designed by people who perform live, improvised music, so obviously ease-of-use was a key issue for us. It was designed to be performed with. The Echoplex is not a passive box that you ignore while it does its thing, like a reverb. (although once it has a loop going, you can pretty much leave it be) It is really an instrument unto itself, and can add a wealth of new possibilities to your music. Like a good instrument, you can get started and have fun with it within minutes. (like learning an open G chord) And like a good instrument, it has a lot of depth waiting for you to explore it. It grows with you. ********************************************************* Is that what you wanted to know? kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Sun Oct 27 15:04:16 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 27 07:49:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vHXSc-0004zx-00; Sun, 27 Oct 1996 07:49:14 -0800 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 11:51:20 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: Oberhiem Matrix-6 Resent-Message-ID: <"_5tRc.A.DhE.YQ4cy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: formail -q- -D 8192 msgid.cache X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 07:49:14 -0800 X-UIDL: c0e2939929cc71b31b3ce3cdee72129b >Patrick, about Matrix-6: >> >>I just got a line on one of these for $250. Seems like a fair price and the >>previous user has some very nive sounds on it. > >Sounds like a good price. I'm thinking of getting a Matrix-1000, which I >believe is similar but without the on-board editing features. Does the >Matrix-6 have midi? I guess it does but I don't know. I actually know >considerably less about older Oberheim products than you might expect from >someone who designed stuff for them and even knows the fellow who founded >the company. Found myself in some awkward spots while demoing oberheim >stuff at tradeshows..... (You'd think people would know better than to ask >a guy holding a Les Paul obscure questions about OB-8's and Xpanders) > >>Does anyone have any experience controlling one of these with a guitar >>synth. Specifically a Roland GR-1 with the GK2-a pickup. > >Matrix-1000 actually has a mode for guitar synth, but I have no idea about >the matrix-6. 1000's seem pretty good for it since they respond quickly. > >Actually, this brings up an interesting loop topic. Old analog synths >without midi control would seem to be an ideal match for looping. Anybody >doing that sort of thing? > >kim I use the 1000 in my midi guitar set up ... works great and sounds rich ... responds well. Paul From ???@??? Sun Oct 27 15:04:29 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 27 13:44:26 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vHd0K-00074A-00; Sun, 27 Oct 1996 13:44:24 -0800 Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 13:40:08 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Congrats Andre LaFosse! In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19961027025448.00687850@pure.pureatria.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"C9yEyC.A._fG.Id9cy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/839 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 13:44:24 -0800 X-UIDL: bebf85466d82baf594e677a37ad5efe1 On Sat, 26 Oct 1996, Sean Echevarria wrote: > I just got the December issue of Guitar Player and who's there with a > Steinberger guitar in the Spotlight Demo of the Month? None other than "The > Man Himself." > Congratulations! Thanks! Now here's the funny thing: I didn't even find out about this until yesterday, when *another* guy on the 'net (from Digital Guitar Digest) told me about it. Seems that _GP_ magazine never got around to telling me that they were going to run a blurb on me (and here I'd thought they didn't dig the tape I sent). And despite scouring some LA newsstands, I still haven't been able to actually see the issue! Oh well, I don't think I'll complain too much. ;-/ Thanks again, --Andre From ???@??? Mon Oct 28 00:05:58 1996 >From kflint Sun Oct 27 23:58:59 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vHmb5-0005q9-00; Sun, 27 Oct 1996 23:58:59 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 23:55:12 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Odd list problems Resent-Message-ID: <"4Uzy6B.A.8aF.SdGdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/840 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 23:58:59 -0800 X-UIDL: 071df7a6029b3ee2f75df26f29938d28 Hi folks- The server that runs the list had some problems over the past few days. (the file system apparently filled up without the ever-vigilant sys admins noticing!) I've been told that its fixed now. If you had any strange problems, let me know. A bunch of people subscribed during this time, and didn't get added to the list properly. I've just added them manually, so hopefully they are all with us now! thanks, kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Mon Oct 28 09:33:24 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 28 02:53:53 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vHpKK-00028C-00; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 02:53:52 -0800 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 11:52:02 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: old analog loops... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"BE6fVB.A.78B.ZBJdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/841 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 02:53:52 -0800 X-UIDL: 760fccc3b04f192dfc1e6b3814de3d85 Well, yes and no. I have an old (besides my Roland GR series) electroharmonics micro synthesizer that can sound like a roland 303 if you are not carefull. This little stomp box provides (it is monophnic) a little resonant filter, treated either or together the intrument input, a square wave , an octave above square and an octave lower voice (little like a Boss ocatver but more raunchier). Perfect loops, and always nice to hace afilter on any instrument. More! it's VCA can cut attack so can play violin like line without touching your volume pot, no matter the speed of play. Wao, if i don't catch your attention..... Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Mon Oct 28 22:52:17 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 28 10:44:33 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vHwfn-0002PE-00; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 10:44:31 -0800 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 96 12:35:04 CST From: "Todd Madson" Message-Id: <9609288465.AA846534750@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ToddM@lasermaster.com Subject: Re: Todd's VORTEX Patches...Free for the Ask Resent-Message-ID: <"L5mk6D.A.z0B.G1Pdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/842 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 10:44:31 -0800 X-UIDL: f5385297d6c8aaaadcbffccedf05af67 Oops - sorry: It's 28 and 28 and 01. Me. _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Todd's VORTEX Patches...Free for the Ask From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com at Internet Date: 10/24/96 1:56 AM >Message was resent -- Original recipients were: To: ------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------- thanks for sharing your Vortex patches Todd. You forgot the settings for Resonance1 - what are they? -Michael Received: from spica.LaserMaster.Com by ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com (SMTPLINK V2.10.08) ; Thu, 24 Oct 96 01:56:52 CST Return-Path: Received: from ferret.slip.net (ferret.slip.net [204.160.88.6]) by spica.LaserMaster.Com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA10322 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 1996 01:55:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vGJdG-0007HZ-00; Wed, 23 Oct 1996 23:51:10 -0700 Date: 24 Oct 96 02:48:06 EDT From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Todd's VORTEX Patches...Free for the Ask Message-ID: <961024064806_100041.247_JHB51-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"ltd7u.A.4yG.0Gxby"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/819 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: ToddM@lasermaster.com Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 23:51:10 -0700 From ???@??? Mon Oct 28 22:52:34 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 28 15:27:23 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vI15W-0002vO-00; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 15:27:22 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 15:44:44 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Oberhiem Matrix-6 Resent-Message-ID: <"EHbzVD.A.7dC.rAUdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/843 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 15:27:22 -0800 X-UIDL: 272b0af0601b2b0b3f5d8827bece2c7b >Greetings, > >I just joined this list tweo days ago and will provide you with more >personal info as time permits. But first a question some of you may have >experience with. > >I just got a line on one of these for $250. Seems like a fair price and the >previous user has some very nive sounds on it. > It's a cool little synth, and that's a pretty great price. It's quite a bit thinner sounding than the Matrix 12 or Xpander, also by Oberheim, but still capable of some quite cool sounds. I had one back in the day, and often wish I still did. >Does anyone have any experience controlling one of these with a guitar >synth. Specifically a Roland GR-1 with the GK2-a pickup. > as I recall, there is a mode that assigns each of the 6 voices in the Matrix to different MIDI channels, so if the GR-1 can output each string on a different channel, you should be in business. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Mon Oct 28 22:52:39 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 28 16:11:42 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vI1mP-0005TH-00; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:11:41 -0800 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:06:07 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: CRASH Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"SSI8r.A.m9E.wsUdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/845 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:11:41 -0800 X-UIDL: 6e60245fd2be5b0ae1336d13386210c3 Hey gang -- The server at Shoko crashed last night, so would someone be kind enough to forward any looper's delight posts from last night through to this message back to me? Thanks very much, --Andre From ???@??? Mon Oct 28 22:52:36 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 28 16:08:07 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vI1iu-0005Co-00; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:08:04 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:26:10 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: New Cagean Loop Device! Resent-Message-ID: <"0rlcE.A.ApE.inUdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/844 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:08:04 -0800 X-UIDL: aecf0c5dcca630280554ac404d92f738 I've just discovered a whole new looping device! Well, actually, I started viewing a certain flaw in my recording system from a different perspective, and came up with an all-new, chance operation digital looping device! I'm working on a (loopy) recording project in my basement studio, a kind of ambient/trip hop/jungle type of thing, which is a pretty new style of music for me. I'm recording stuff onto a Powermac 7100/66, running Macromedia's Deck II 2.5, and a digidesign Audiomedia 2 card for input/output. The source materials are DAT's of various musicians I've played with over the years, a couple of analog synths, my bass, and various effects including a JamMan. Once stuff is into the computer, I loop it in either Deck or Opcode StudioVision Pro, and process it with Hyperprism, SoundHack, Sound Designer, etc, and assemble the final tracks in Deck. On my system, I can get between 7 and 11 tracks of simultaneous playback, depending on the fragmentation of my hard drive, the amount of automation in the track, the phase of the moon and of course, the relative strength of the earth's magnetic field. I never really know how many tracks I'll get, it varies from day to day. The cool thing is that when I try to add another track than the computer can play, whether by live recording or importing an audio file, my computer goes into this wierd loop mode, where it plays back a random-length chunk of audio from the piece over and over until I reboot the computer, usually with wierd sonic glitches at the beginning and end of the loop. After rebooting, everything seems fine, and I don't think this is destroying my hard drive. This used to annoy me to no end, it happens about once every other day or so. Lately, I've been keeping a DAT around to record these loops, I grab 30 seconds or so before rebooting. I never really know when this is going to happen, and these loops are not something I'd probably intentionally do, so I'm learning to appreciate them as manna from loop heaven, and not as a bug. Any other stories of accidental loopistry out there? later, dt ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel, NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: improv@peak.org self promotional web-site: http://www.peak.org/~improv/ "A squid eating dough in a polyethelene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?" -Captain Beefheart ________________________________________________________ From ???@??? Mon Oct 28 22:52:42 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 28 16:51:20 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vI2Oh-00009A-00; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:51:15 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 22:46:50 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: When stuck -- how I create loops / ideas Resent-Message-ID: <"lZg7OB.A.PnG.cLVdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/846 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:51:15 -0800 X-UIDL: a49eea7bc3e1d6e97a82ea6150ff1e00 I was technically disconnected from the list for almost a week. You wont believe it: I felt lonely. So hungry I eat all the mail and give my stupid coments: >It is better to use an >instrument with a strong characteristic voice, and work within the >limitations of that voice. Great >I think of the looping devices as more canvas than paint, if you know >what I mean. Much better even!! Its not an effect, not an instrument - a phrase mixer? Matthias From ???@??? Mon Oct 28 22:52:46 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 28 16:52:01 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vI2PN-0000Cw-00; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:51:57 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 22:46:57 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"vXjSb.A.vqG.4LVdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/849 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:51:57 -0800 X-UIDL: dca9b2f576cbf00226f100312818e63c Todd: >Hmmmm. $250 a pop and about 7.5 minutes for a single piece. >Could be do-able, but I've been finding that I've been doing >20+ minute piece since I've gotten into looping for long, very >gradual transitions. Me too. But once you go into the computer and edit to leave only the essencial, you will get closer. I would love to propose a treatement of your music on DECK - how do I know, your sound may be horrible :-). Another trick is to play your long loops as usual and instantely decide to make the next real short, just one picture. This brought me some of the nicest pieces. Matthias From ???@??? Mon Oct 28 22:52:44 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 28 16:51:26 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vI2Om-00009M-00; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:51:20 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 22:47:02 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time Resent-Message-ID: <"NiZp4.A.poG.pLVdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/847 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:51:20 -0800 X-UIDL: a55511a179515d86977e6a0aee75ee78 >>Playing a >>"traditional" guitar solo (I'm a guitarist....please forgive my bias) over >>the top of a loop, in my opinion, helps to remind people that you really >>are playing your instrument....even if they don't understand the technical >>aspects of your whole performance. >> >>Matt > >Um, has anyone here ever tried *explaining* what they're doing? You >know, do a little 2 minute seminar before the performance? Yes, I often do that. I play a song first and when I fell all the brains fixed on the question "how the hell does he that" (or rather "Po, como quele faz isto?) I stop and show a short obvious bit of loop while talking about it. People then relax and go deeper into the music. Matthias PS More and more I rather talk about consciousness and different aplications of music and the trip inward and stuff. For many here this is new and fundamental work. So I do it, even feeling a bit strange, guru-like, sometimes. From ???@??? Mon Oct 28 22:52:41 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 28 16:51:04 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vI2OT-000088-00; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:51:01 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 22:47:08 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Okay, let's get philosophical: Performance Theory time Resent-Message-ID: <"SWN-4C.A.-oG.sLVdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/848 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:51:01 -0800 X-UIDL: f568260d54da08082b07e366a422df23 Dave: >and while i'm here, i'm not so sure you "have to" play a guitar solo to >remind them that you are there. you ARE there, and whatever you do, if they >are tuned in at all, they will hear, regardless of if a "solo" is on top... The first pieces often contain a virtuoso guitar solo to prove to some type of public that I really am a musician. After some quick playing they trust me and let go into the music. Matthias From ???@??? Mon Oct 28 22:52:51 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 28 16:52:40 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vI2Q1-0000H7-00; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:52:37 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 22:47:15 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: exchanging ideas/PROPOSAL Resent-Message-ID: <"32SXk.A.wrG.CMVdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/850 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:52:37 -0800 X-UIDL: 7cccbfad6d6684245c88c108eb3fb7db >2. Dan proposed to put it all on a web page which he would do as a school >survey project. This would be an elegant solution, wouldn't involve any >money, get us some publicity, and would nicely supplement our web page. >Kim asked how permanent this page would be. Dan? This is a brilliant option because you can teach anyone easily about what we are doing, better than with words as we do now. Words work well for those who did some similar stuff, but we want to play shows for the others, too. >3. David brought up the idea to do a CD. This would require some work >from someone who would realize the CD, and some money from the participants. >"Imagine if a CD costs $2500 and 10 musicians divided 76minutes and the >total cost..." >Ray Peck offered to do the work, "I can put together a comp CD of listfolk." > >(What about your looppool project Matthias?) Well, the idea was exactly this. The participants would have been the LOOP delay users, we had no net to comunicate and I did not get the money form Oberheim I intended to invest. I did not have the guts to propose to share the investment, but its very fine for me. So there are 4 DAT tapes with contributions here, 3 accousic an one el. guitar. I can ask the guys if they are interested even paying. I want percussion woodwind, voice... on it!! You really ALL play guitar??? The title LOOP POOL seams to be taken by Torn. Any suggestions? Matthias From ???@??? Mon Oct 28 22:52:55 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 28 16:52:57 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vI2QB-0000IB-00; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:52:47 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 22:47:21 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"TYtwdC.A.7tG.WMVdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/851 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:52:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 7c5dc3e932117067080b1945f7b9765f >"Todd Madson" writes: >>Hmmmm. $250 a pop and about 7.5 minutes for a single piece. >>Could be do-able, but I've been finding that I've been doing >>20+ minute piece since I've gotten into looping for long, very > >As I said before, I can burn CDs digitally from DATs on my PowerMac. >I can also do digital editing (e.g., doing nice smooth fades, click >removal, etc), and can allegedly do super noise reduction using >SoundHack (some folks on DAW claim they do better than Digidesign's >$900 DINR plugin), although I haven't tried yet. > >I'd be happy to do a CD for the list. Blanks are $8-9 at the moment. >I'd be even more happy if buyers would kick in a little to help me buy >better burning software, so I'm not forced to put 2 second blanks >between songs, but this isn't necessary. > >Anyone interested in this? If the quantities don't get too high, we >can do multiple disks. > >(also, I can do this service for individuals for a reasonable price) This is an exelent service. For the comunity though, I think it is interesting to have a quantity of CDs with 'professional' cover so we can give them away and gain respect and get known. Its just not the same feeling to put in a gold CD. Matthias From ???@??? Mon Oct 28 22:52:53 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 28 16:52:34 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vI2Ps-0000G4-00; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:52:28 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 22:47:27 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Here we go again Resent-Message-ID: <"gQ1sSD.A.LvG.fMVdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/853 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:52:28 -0800 X-UIDL: 536de088630aaa51aecc687c6471ec7a >>I also noticed a few days ago that a loop which was running decayed to >>almost total silence over the course of some fifteen to twenty minutes, >>but the feedback control was definitely all the way to the right. I've >>read that when more and more overdubs are put into the loops that the >>feedback is automatically scaled back to aout 95%; is that what I'm >>looking at now? If Overdub is on, then you look at the 95% thing. If not, oh dear, I do not remember the bugs I fixed. >This is a problem that was definitely there on prototypes, and at some >point it was fixed. I have to get Matthias' help here, because some of it >was a software problem, and I'm not sure when it got fixed. I know that >with the mythical upgrade, this doesn't happen. Thing is, it doesn't >necessarily happen with the shipping software either. Matthias, do you know >if this was fixed in the shipping soft? I looked through the docs and could not find such bug mentioned. I found that in this first version, through MIDI you did not reach full FeedBack. Do you use MIDI, Andre? >My uncertainty is because I think there were several different problems >which caused this. One of them may have been the thermal/cut-the-ic-pin >problem. That particular chip handles both the front panel switches and the >feedback knob, so I think that the same sort of conditions that cause the >Undo button to freak out also might cause loop degrading. I never had a >chance to verify that, so I don't know, but cutting that pin certainly >won't hurt and might fix this for you. Well, we recently noted that the CODEC slowly runs away and we need to recalibrate it. The most simple way to do it is a powercycle when the machine is hot. The new soft will contain a recalibration in Reset. But as far as I understood, in the shiping soft, this "run away" did not cause the 95% thing as it does now, because of a change in that system Are you really confused now? One thing: We will need very much the support of the users to find bugs in future new releases. But this one you have is two years old and we had more than 10 new internal versions and a lot changed a lot. So error reports do not lead anywhere, unfortunately. >The other bit of uncertainty is that there actually was a software upgrade >very early in the echoplex production. You can see the software version >when you turn the power on, the current software will show LD3 3.2. The >first 60-100 units had an earlier version, LD3 3.0. Unfortunately, I don't >remember what was fixed in this upgrade. Could have been the loop >degradation, but I don't know. What software version do you have Andre? I do not remember that upgrade and its not in my documentation. Sorry Matthias From ???@??? Mon Oct 28 22:53:00 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 28 16:53:26 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vI2Qj-0000LM-00; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:53:21 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 22:47:35 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"0hZJU.A.vuG.cMVdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/852 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:53:21 -0800 X-UIDL: bbbbf74cfbf64ff638fefbeed0e39bdd >Matthias asked, > >> Anyone knows how to create a spiral on the puter? > >(for all those poor German illiterates, "puter" in German is not only the >short form for "computer" but also the German expression for a (male) >turkey, and consequently "com puter" calls for a turkey to come here.) (Here in Brasil its much worse because "puta" means "prostitute". So there is a Tshirt saying: "Meu computador nao fala com puta". Which means either "my computer does not speak but calculate" or "...does not speak with a prostitute". Incredibly funny, isnt it.) You kow why I am looking for spirals? Looping means to repeat but never the same. The spiral has that character which seams a symbol for all history as I know it: Things turn back but are not the same. We go in circles but evolve. >Yes I can produce spirals on a computer, and not only spirals but many other >interesting abstract images, with my fractal animation program HOP (for PC >only, sorry Mac users) - be sure to check out > >http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm > >for info, downloads, and a gallery. I seem to remember that you have a Mac >Matthias, so you can only look at the still images. Not many spirals there >yet but I could make some and upload them somewhere if you really want. Had a look and did not see any. I will download more of your art. >HOP is more interesting for animations though. I'll use it to do a live >fractal lightshow (using a video beamer and live PC) for a concert this >saturday. Anyone in the Cologne, Germany area is invited to come! How was it? From ???@??? Mon Oct 28 22:52:58 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 28 16:53:06 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vI2QN-0000JH-00; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:52:59 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 22:47:41 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: lobbying for upgrades. Resent-Message-ID: <"m5NR9D.A.zvG.mMVdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/854 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:52:59 -0800 X-UIDL: bee280bc2efe178006b4629240071e89 >Matthias writes: >>Jon Durant, what would you say as an old professional? > >First, I'm not old. I just feel that way sometimes when my two boys run me >ragged!!! See, I do not even have BOYS! >Second, and more to the point: Getting Composers on our side is a tricky issue. >For example: Bill Frisell has been using a JamMan for years, mostly as a >compositional tool. In his live performances, he generally still uses his >trusty >old Electro Harmonix thingy. Why? Because he can take a loop and speed it up or >slow it down using the delay time (something no cuurrent looping device >can do). >So his use of the device is completely hidden to the general public. Maybe not that completely, in the end. >>For them we need demonstrations or a video "how to apply loops in rock >>music" or so. > >Did anyone see the Lexicon JamMan Video? Yes. It gave me the feeling that we could do it much better. :-) But then Oberheim... A friend had some great ideas to explain graphically what happens. One day we will do it, you'll see. And maybe together instead of beeing competidors. >>- Amateurs that start playing and grab the loop quicker than the >>instrument they are using and therefore are happy to be able to create >>something musiclike on the loop from the start (some techno rythm for >>>>example). ... >If we could hook a band like the Cure to start using one and talking about >it, then it would be a big lift. So my British distributor tried to get me into >the sessions for their last record (recorded at Jane Seymour's house!), >but they >had started work and didn't want to be interrupted. Of course, the record >stiffed, and they *never* talk about gear, so it wasn't a big loss. Yes it was. I think the return cannot be that immediate, but broad. The musicians form some kind of a pyramid, handing tricks from level to level. Whatever the cracks invent in some hidden big studio, the kids do some years afterwards, without even knowing how they learned it. If we had learned only from record covers, we would still play like Clapton. >Meanwhile, the way to get kids to get into it is through the dealers. And >we all >know how likely that is to happen: It isn't. Besides, there's a major price >barrier for beginners: You can't sell them a looper that costs more than their >guitar, and that means the thing has to cost about $200 max. Probably more like >$100. > >So where does this leave us? Personally, I'm frightened by the outlook in the >present tense. I do know that there are a couple of guys at Lexicon who believe >in the potential. Of course, they happen to be the two guys who created the >JamMan and modify PCM 42s. Where are these people? Don't they feel like participating on the list and be lined up under the heroes on the loop site? >Believe it or not, the answer really comes from one >place: the dealers. (I know, I know...) The management of Lexicon is completely >conviced that the word of Sam Ash and Guitar Center is the word of God. If we >could convince these guys to start pestering the manufacturers, then we might >see movement. So lets walk into these shops and start talking about looping and shows and... >True story: At one point, I tried to put forth a proposal that went way beyond >reason, but that I thought would work: I suggested that an upgrade to the >JamMan, adding the most requested features (which had already been >developed and >tested by the product's creator in a personal quest for the coolest thing >going) >should be done, not because we'd sell more, but because it was the professional >thing to do. Stand behind your customers. It would have generated excellent >press, and would have said a whole lot about why Lexicon is the professional >choice. And it really wouldn't have costed a whole lot of money--you could >write >it off to the PR account! The idea gained steam, until the words "JamMan >Upgrade" were raised in a management meeting and were met with howls of >laughter. NEXT! Is that when you left. I see, I am not the only one mistreated. >OK, I'm leaking confidential secrets of life at Lex, and I'm sure Kim could >regale us all with some charmers from Oberheim/Gibson land, but this is the >reality: Looping is a sore subject for these companies, and it won't improve >until Alesis comes out with a winner and makes everyone look stupid. (Did >I just >say that? JD, you've come a long way in 9 months...) Yes. And I want to participate on that Alesis product! Mattias From ???@??? Mon Oct 28 22:53:01 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 28 16:53:41 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vI2Qz-0000Mx-00; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:53:37 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 22:47:51 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: lobbying for upgrades. Resent-Message-ID: <"-ZcgL.A.o4G.1NVdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/857 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:53:37 -0800 X-UIDL: 3d1baa360dc616edcf27f71903e563b2 >I read your email with interest .. it is sad that Lex is so short sighted >on this score. I would very much like to see an upgrade to this box ... >and be able to vary loop lengths after entered using a pedal ... and some >other ideas ... it would seem to me as you said that some of the >innovations would not be costly and they could reintroduce the thing to the >market. > >Paul pfffft! Remember his power mails about lex support? hihihi From ???@??? Mon Oct 28 22:52:56 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 28 16:53:03 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vI2QK-0000J7-00; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:52:56 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 22:47:57 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: lobbying for upgrades. Resent-Message-ID: <"Qo1XOB.A.W2G.hNVdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/855 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:52:56 -0800 X-UIDL: 93d90d1d6261e002cfb87315e2a89636 >I hope the under $1000-yet-reasonably-feature-rich looping devices such >as the JamDude, Echoplex, and Boomerang remain available on the market. >Otherwise, those of us who are saving up for looping devices would be doomed >to: > >1. Scouring the used market. I keep a few LOOP delays I will sell very expensive, one day ;-) >2. Making do with the delay effects that do not enjoy a comparable feature >set (i.e., delay pedals, delays built into multieffects devices). >3. Paying major $$$ for a tc electronics, Eventide, or other high-end >looping box that does have the desirable features but also induces sticker >shock. Are there any that have the desirable features? If they had, it would have been much cheaper for me to buy one of them than to create a new device! The situation is serious. From ???@??? Mon Oct 28 22:52:49 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 28 16:52:36 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vI2Pv-0000GQ-00; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:52:31 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 22:48:04 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Compilation CD suggestion Resent-Message-ID: <"edjphD.A.f3G.qNVdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/856 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 16:52:31 -0800 X-UIDL: b69a35f2006f071ca40447f43406b7ac >The reason I'm suggesting this as an alterntative to a professioal >duplication approach is that it would make the overall cost somewhere >under $200-$300 dollars (for DAT and blank CD costs), rather than >somewhere in the $1,000 to $2,000 dollar range for a professional >duplication house. Since this project is (presumably) for list members >first and foremost, it doesn't make loads of sense to me to have boxes of >hundreds of CDs sitting about. No, its for all jurnalists, concert producers, SONY music... I suppose the 1000 CDs divide between the 10 investors. I will spread my 100 very quickly. This is one of the few ways to get out of the loop unit misery. Matthias From ???@??? Mon Oct 28 22:53:14 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 28 18:40:49 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vI46i-0005ot-00; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 18:40:48 -0800 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 18:36:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199610290236.SAA26001@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"4GGDrD.A.wTF.n3Wdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/858 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 18:40:48 -0800 X-UIDL: 7b390a436b806418d82244c6ef48d175 >This is an exelent service. >For the comunity though, I think it is interesting to have a quantity of >CDs with 'professional' cover so we can give them away and gain respect and >get known. > >Its just not the same feeling to put in a gold CD. Why not have a professional cover? We can get some dye-sub printed at 1200 dpi. This looks as nice as any "real" cover. From ???@??? Mon Oct 28 22:53:16 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 28 19:32:25 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vI4ud-0000CG-00; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 19:32:23 -0800 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 19:25:33 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: CRASH In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"6GU1-C.A.V.snXdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/859 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 19:32:23 -0800 X-UIDL: 678aaa90fe03b3019d0d03374d1fffdc On second thought, never mind... They all showed up in the INBOX just now. --Andre From ???@??? Tue Oct 29 00:10:40 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 28 23:35:11 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vI8ha-0002mL-00; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 23:35:10 -0800 Date: 29 Oct 96 02:32:14 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Message-ID: <961029073214_100041.247_JHB105-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"olUCW.A.EjC.qNbdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/860 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 23:35:10 -0800 X-UIDL: 05275fb302ac818bc3956f2e2252dd82 >> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm >> HOP is more interesting for animations though. I'll use it to do a live >> fractal lightshow (using a video beamer and live PC) for a concert this >> saturday. Anyone in the Cologne, Germany area is invited to come! > How was it? people generally like it but I'm growing more critical of it - it is very difficult to find abstract animations which fit the music played - sometimes it works but sometimes it doesn't and then doing it anyway is too arbitrary to be really satisfying. I'm still dreaming to do a solo project with my own music and my own images, but I'm still far from this point. Computers will eventually be able to successfully do this thing - produce live visuals for music played by humans or played by software or both. Generative music (in the Eno sense) accompanied by generative visuals, maybe with genetic algorithms which could be influenced by the audience (as in the computer graphics installations of Karl Sims who uses a Connection Machine). Concerts possibly without musicians, the music being played by the audience itself, starting out from initial conditions set by a composer, and evolving like a living being. -Michael From ???@??? Tue Oct 29 00:10:41 1996 >From kflint Mon Oct 28 23:41:17 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vI8nV-00031f-00; Mon, 28 Oct 1996 23:41:17 -0800 Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 23:36:42 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Here we go again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"RVoRp.A.MyC.lTbdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/861 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 23:41:17 -0800 X-UIDL: eaac89cb2e69c2fe5bcf97c3845f3750 Matthias sez: (regarding Feedback problems) > I looked through the docs and could not find such bug mentioned. I found > that in this first version, through MIDI you did not reach full FeedBack. > Do you use MIDI, Andre? I'm a MIDIot for sure, but I've used it fairly little with the Echoplex, and never with regards to the feedback control. At any rate, I've run the machine many times since noticing the aforementioned anomaly, and it seems to be OK. Probably either a random bug, or else it was the old IC/Pin 5 syndrome. --Andre From ???@??? Tue Oct 29 07:47:30 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 29 02:05:39 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vIB3B-0006Nt-00; Tue, 29 Oct 1996 02:05:37 -0800 Message-Id: <16734.199610291004@eeapp.gla.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 10:04:09 GMT From: Michael Hughes To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: exchanging ideas/PROPOSAL X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Pr-ZSD.A.66F.Aaddy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/862 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 02:05:37 -0800 X-UIDL: c6e2e2b8114487341909e9fbccfb6361 >3. David brought up the idea to do a CD. This would require some work >from someone who would realize the CD, and some money from the participants. >"Imagine if a CD costs $2500 and 10 musicians divided 76minutes and the >total cost..." I, and I'm sure a few others, could do a sub -7.6min song (sorry, is "song" an acceptable phrase here?:) ). How about setting a $30/min charge, and people just take what they can afford? Furthermore, is this going to be edited ("I'm not putting this crap on the CD!") and if so by whom? > So there are 4 DAT tapes with contributions here, 3 accousic an one el. guitar. > I can ask the guys if they are interested even paying. > I want percussion woodwind, voice... on it!! You really ALL play guitar??? Well, guitar is the most accessible electric instrument, and all the synthists can loop with MIDI more easily.... After hearing Ed Alleyne-Johnson's CD of looped electic violin I did try taking the violin up, but it seemed to be such an uphill struggle to learn a new instrument that I just gave up! The other Michael Dr Michael Pycraft Hughes, Natural Philosopher Bioelectronic Research Centre, Rankine Bldg, University of Glasgow, UK "Everything in Moderation, Including Moderation" (Zen proverb) From ???@??? Tue Oct 29 07:47:31 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 29 02:18:29 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vIBFd-0006fY-00; Tue, 29 Oct 1996 02:18:29 -0800 Message-Id: <17278.199610291017@eeapp.gla.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 10:17:37 GMT From: Michael Hughes To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Guitar tunings, Vortex, MicroSynth X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"KhYZ8C.A.pNG.tmddy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/863 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 02:18:29 -0800 X-UIDL: 18dfd8f34f67b62097deada412f789f6 Tunings: Anybody out there using unusual guitar tunings to cover up the lack of bass in your loops? I've been trying several variants of tuning in 5ths (eg FCGDAE, DAFCGD or GCGDAE, low-high) which give very lush-sounding chords but can be a nightmare when it comes to playing single-note lines (hence the 4th in the bass on the G-E tuning, my current fave). Anyone else have similar experiences? Vortex: OK, this has probably been discussed to death. However, since there aren't any Lex dealers (AFAIK) in Glasgow, I'm going to have to ask some pretty basic questions about the Vortex. Feel free to EMail me personally if it keeps traffic down. Basically, what is it capable of? I get the impression that it's a one delay-plus-mod-effect at a time box (delay, rvb, chorus-ish stuff but no pitch-shift or EQ). It has 2 external switch outputs - are these probrammable for all patches? Does it accept MIDSI CC's, and if so will it alter the input rather than output signal (for swell FX that don't interfere with RVB fades?) Micro Synth: Olivier said: "it's VCA can cut attack so can play violin like line without touching your volume pot, no matter the speed of play." Is there anything else about that will do this? From ???@??? Tue Oct 29 07:47:34 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 29 05:09:36 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vIDvD-0000ig-00; Tue, 29 Oct 1996 05:09:35 -0800 Date: 29 Oct 96 08:04:22 EST From: Jon Durant <74074.1316@CompuServe.COM> To: "INTERNET:Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com" Subject: Re: lobbying for upgrades. Message-ID: <961029130421_74074.1316_GHQ57-2@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"2SqgrD.A.qm.-Fgdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/864 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 05:09:35 -0800 X-UIDL: 897d8ff90ab3cb7de647cb1ca4a191e0 Mattias: >Yes. It gave me the feeling that we could do it much better. :-) >But then Oberheim... >A friend had some great ideas to explain graphically what happens. One day >we will do it, you'll see. And maybe together instead of beeing >competidors. You know, if they didn't cost so damn much money, and take so much time to put together, I'd say "Let's do it!". It would be immensely helpful to people, regardless of their chosen Looping device. Not to mention that it would get a certain monkey off my back. (Clearly I'm really embarrassed by that video!) Mattias again: >So lets walk into these shops and start talking about looping and shows >and... Another excellent idea. If we start bombarding the shops about looping, you'd be amazed at the change we could effect. Unfortunately, most of us already own a device, but we could still go in asking about upgrades, talking up how the device has changed our lives, etc. They might even listen if a few people start doing this. More Mattias >Yes. And I want to participate on that Alesis product! Seriously, Mattias: as much as it pains me to say this, it may just be the answer. They've got gobs of money to throw at R&D, and so much work is already done. Maybe you should approach them. It wouldn't be a stretch for them, and they always love an opportunity to show up Lexicon. One thing I do know: don't waste time at Digitech--they spent a lot of time laughing at their co-Harman company (Lexicon) after the box flopped. Early on itwas all "Great box, cool idea" and in their demos at shows they even tried to demo some looping (about 1.5 sec) in the GSP 2101. Then JamMan didn't sell, and it was all "what a stupid idea. Nobody wants that". Nice guys. >2. Making do with the delay effects that do not enjoy a comparable feature >set (i.e., delay pedals, delays built into multieffects devices). >3. Paying major $$$ for a tc electronics, Eventide, or other high-end >looping box that does have the desirable features but also induces sticker >shock. I don't know what Eventide are dooing loop-wise. I do know tey've got a rediculously priced "guitar" version of the DSP4000, but apparently it doesn't sound so great (from the mouth of DT), and it looks really lame. Like a bad ART box. Really. TC Electronics does have the 2290, the preferred delay device of mssrs. Fripp and Gunn. Cool box, very expensve. I went to a "private" customer show of upgrades to the M500 (I had gotten on their mailing list with Alchemy Records, while I still worked for Lexicon), and they were giving away a 2290. So I went, hoping to win the beast, but the local representative recognized me and kicked me out. They were showing the upgrades to consumers, yet they claimed it was "confidential" and we Lex guys had to leave. Nice guys. Yeah, OK, I know it's another long one. Sorry. From ???@??? Tue Oct 29 07:47:44 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 29 06:22:06 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vIF3N-0002iO-00; Tue, 29 Oct 1996 06:22:05 -0800 Message-ID: <3276129B.6944@easyway.net> Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 09:20:12 -0500 From: Jonathan Brainin X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: lobbying for upgrades. References: <961029130421_74074.1316_GHQ57-2@CompuServe.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"nlRdCC.A.0dC.fKhdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/865 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 06:22:05 -0800 X-UIDL: f1027babe7ba1b6ec851b32ba208a4f2 Jon Durant wrote: > I don't know what Eventide are dooing loop-wise. I do know tey've got a > rediculously priced "guitar" version of the DSP4000, but apparently it doesn't > sound so great (from the mouth of DT), and it looks really lame. Like a bad ART > box. Really. TC Electronics does have the 2290, the preferred delay device of > mssrs. Fripp and Gunn. A couple of things: Fripp is currently using four 2290's while Trey doesn't use one at all. (Fripp has enough for both?!) Also, on Trey's great sounding new album, "The Third Star", he uses the eventide box almost exclusively. He's got the long sampling board option in his box. Also, a friend at Eventide tell me that they're working on the DSP/GTR4500. This would have four independent inputs and outputs, stereo looping ability of up to six (or was it eight) minutes using standard 72 pin simms, and too many other features to recall. Later, Jonathan From ???@??? Tue Oct 29 19:54:38 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 29 08:18:59 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vIGsU-0007Gw-00; Tue, 29 Oct 1996 08:18:58 -0800 Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 17:16:29 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: Guitar tunings, Vortex, MicroSynth In-Reply-To: <17278.199610291017@eeapp.gla.ac.uk> Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Z7Sb1B.A.nqG.s3idy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/866 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 08:18:58 -0800 X-UIDL: b0cee3ecc5ddb59eef2fcb55bec5fa5f I think Korg did a few years ago a stompbox with quite the same features of my Electro-harmoniw micro synth, but it seems (at least here) to be more elusive to find (here means france). They had in the same stomboxes line an octaver with 5 bands (one above, the urrent guitar line, one octave lower, 1.5 octave lower (?) and 2 octaves lower). As far as guitar tunings are concerned, my usuals tunings are - main tunings EADGBE (standard) - fifth starting on A lower than usaul E: AEBF#C#G# - Baritone fretless guitar (not a bass) usual intervals tuning transpose to start on the same A than above: ADG...... - on the opposite, a minor third tuning with the higher string being tuned in C. Gives easily delicate cluster voicing arpeggios and chords. Does it seem complicated enough???? I can switch instruments while growing a loop.... and there is my beloved stick. Since most of my loops are done manually with repeating every notes on a multitracker, and seldomly using electronic created loops, it works (id I had an echoplex, i think i woul become lazy and start to record loops with the machine.....) Olivier From ???@??? Tue Oct 29 19:55:15 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 29 19:21:53 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vIRE0-0004ZU-00; Tue, 29 Oct 1996 19:21:52 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 21:40:10 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Analog Loops Resent-Message-ID: <"s3X_5.A.9NE.ylsdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/873 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 19:21:52 -0800 X-UIDL: 57b3c6dcc255b5267e385f9f461fa409 Hi, I joined last week and have been swamped as usual. This topic arose I believe when I raised a question about an Oberhiem Matrix-6R. I'm in an ambient music project called Fingerpaint. We are Washington DC locals, myself and Steev Geest. We use four Jam Men(2 each,) and a wealth of effects. Steev uses a Roland GR 300 and GR 700, plus an occasional SH 101 analog keyboard synth for his sound sources. I use a Roland Gr-1 and Yahmah TX 81-z, plus a Korg Poly Six for mine. Recently I've added a Roland GR-50 and now the Matrix-6. So as you can see we have a good analog base to our loops, but also digital and FM synths. We've also used acoustic guitar and a vase filled with marbles and water. Whatever the music requires is what drives us. We have recently released a cassette Enormous Swirling Sound, which I can make available to any one interested in what we are doing for $5 postpaid. The cassette contains eight pieces and is 40 minutes in duration. E-mail if interested and send a check payable to me at: Patrick Smith 7007 Aspen Ave. Takoma Park, MD 20912 Our Web site will be up soon and will contain our thoughts on looping. When we have these written up, I'll forward them to the list. I look forward to being on this list. Peace, Patrick From ???@??? Tue Oct 29 19:55:17 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 29 19:25:57 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vIRHx-0004oY-00; Tue, 29 Oct 1996 19:25:57 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 21:43:50 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"4WS3MD.A.5ZE.Zpsdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/874 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 19:25:57 -0800 X-UIDL: 5b773ddf1f0c2b697ef52b42a9bafb6e Myself and Steev Geest, aka Fingerpaint, are interested in participating in this compilation project. We could forward a DAT and if $250 is the ante, we can cover that. Please advise as to what is necessary. The editing question could be sticky. >And Ray: >>Why not have a professional cover? We can get some dye-sub printed at >>1200 dpi. This looks as nice as any "real" cover. > >I do not doubt we can do a good imitation. It may even look nicer then a >"real" cover, but unfortunately there is such thing as "real" cover. > >What is the problem in making 1000 CDs? Lack of investing members? > >So far: > >David >Matthias >Ted >Collier >Todd >Ray >Michael > >I see, only seven, and not very convinced / with 250$ readdy. > >Ok, we might start collecting and editing sound, distribute it amongst us >and then see whether we jump into some investment later. Let grow is nice. > >Matthias From ???@??? Tue Oct 29 19:54:50 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 29 13:00:24 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vILGp-0004oe-00; Tue, 29 Oct 1996 13:00:23 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199610292056.MAA25340@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: lobbying for upgrades. To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 12:56:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <3276129B.6944@easyway.net> from "Jonathan Brainin" at Oct 29, 96 09:20:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"G94NcC.A.JNE.P-mdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/867 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 13:00:23 -0800 X-UIDL: 3372980019a27e5ae0d643d5ca901541 > Also, a friend at Eventide tell me that they're working on the > DSP/GTR4500. > This would have four independent inputs and outputs, stereo looping > ability > of up to six (or was it eight) minutes using standard 72 pin simms, and > too > many other features to recall. > > Later, > Jonathan What is the possibility of Eventide producing a box that has _just_ the stereo looping functions? Something that would sell for under $1000? Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Tue Oct 29 19:54:55 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 29 14:16:30 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vIMSR-0002m8-00; Tue, 29 Oct 1996 14:16:27 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199610292211.OAA26086@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Guitar tunings, Vortex, MicroSynth To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 14:11:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <17278.199610291017@eeapp.gla.ac.uk> from "Michael Hughes" at Oct 29, 96 10:17:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"xp-Uo.A.UTC.VEody"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/868 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 14:16:27 -0800 X-UIDL: b1904f2718835045825775027f3d3488 > Micro Synth: > > Olivier said: "it's VCA can cut attack so can play violin like line without > touching your volume pot, no matter the speed of play." > Is there anything else about that will do this? Some of the Digitech multi-effects boxes have a built-in volume swell effect that does the job. I notice a number of "synth bass" type effects from Roland/Boss and Korg now (Roland even has a Synth Bass pedal). They all have a monophonic analog synth that is triggered by the input signal and so works with any electric guitar or bass without the need for a hex pickup. As far as I know, the guitar-specific monosynths are available in the Boss SE70 and Roland GT5 multieffects units. I just received an interesting review of the GT5 which has been submitted for posting in Digital Guitar. Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Tue Oct 29 19:54:58 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 29 14:19:28 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vIMVK-00032v-00; Tue, 29 Oct 1996 14:19:26 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 20:21:01 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"fR3UH.A.tqC.cJody"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/871 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 14:19:26 -0800 X-UIDL: 2143c59d3bb1ecce3289e6b226aaf075 I had said >>For the comunity though, I think it is interesting to have a quantity of >>CDs with 'professional' cover so we can give them away and gain respect and >>get known. >> >>Its just not the same feeling to put in a gold CD. And Ray: >Why not have a professional cover? We can get some dye-sub printed at >1200 dpi. This looks as nice as any "real" cover. I do not doubt we can do a good imitation. It may even look nicer then a "real" cover, but unfortunately there is such thing as "real" cover. What is the problem in making 1000 CDs? Lack of investing members? So far: David Matthias Ted Collier Todd Ray Michael I see, only seven, and not very convinced / with 250$ readdy. Ok, we might start collecting and editing sound, distribute it amongst us and then see whether we jump into some investment later. Let grow is nice. Matthias From ???@??? Tue Oct 29 19:54:59 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 29 14:19:52 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vIMVi-00034P-00; Tue, 29 Oct 1996 14:19:50 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 20:21:17 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: visualize loops? Resent-Message-ID: <"F0st8C.A.0mC.8Iody"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/869 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 14:19:50 -0800 X-UIDL: 5a0a0188ffad291f7e179283546ea338 Michael speaking about his concert: >>> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm >>> HOP is more interesting for animations though. I'll use it to do a live >>> fractal lightshow (using a video beamer and live PC) for a concert this >>> saturday. Anyone in the Cologne, Germany area is invited to come! > >> How was it? > >people generally like it but I'm growing more critical of it - it is very >difficult to find abstract animations which fit the music played - sometimes >it works but sometimes it doesn't and then doing it anyway is too arbitrary >to be really satisfying. I'm still dreaming to do a solo project with my own >music and my own images, but I'm still far from this point. > >Computers will eventually be able to successfully do this thing - produce >live visuals for music played by humans or played by software or both. A old dream of mine too. I do not understand sufficiantly. The most looplike pictures I have seen so far was a video demonstration by some californian called James Levis I met in Rio de Janeiro. (I lost his contact). He uses mirrors and films the screen through them and its incredible how natural the forms and movements of these sinthetic pictures turn out. Some have regular patterns. Maybe he uses certain arangements of several mirrors, too. >Generative music (in the Eno sense) accompanied by generative visuals, maybe >with genetic algorithms which could be influenced by the audience (as in the >computer graphics installations of Karl Sims who uses a Connection Machine). >Concerts possibly without musicians, the music being played by the audience >itself, starting out from initial conditions set by a composer, and evolving >like a living being. Nono, it takes an artist to create art. Accident is great, but only if an artist interpretes it. Public envolvement is fun but not satisfactory, lacking straightness or purity or something. I may be totaly wrong here, would need to see the result. Matthias From ???@??? Tue Oct 29 19:55:01 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 29 14:20:51 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vIMWg-000396-00; Tue, 29 Oct 1996 14:20:50 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 20:21:24 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: exchanging ideas/PROPOSAL Resent-Message-ID: <"MNDgWB.A.enC.CJody"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/870 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 14:20:50 -0800 X-UIDL: ea0ec887333731ac18c96ce1b8fe5eb7 >>3. David brought up the idea to do a CD. This would require some work >>from someone who would realize the CD, and some money from the participants. >>"Imagine if a CD costs $2500 and 10 musicians divided 76minutes and the >>total cost..." > >I, and I'm sure a few others, could do a sub -7.6min song (sorry, is "song" >an acceptable phrase here?:) ). How about setting a $30/min charge, and people >just take what they can afford? The capitalistic way usually works - bad. Equilibrated would be nice. >Furthermore, is this going to be edited ("I'm not putting this crap on the >CD!") >and if so by whom? Very delicate and important question. In case of the LOOP POOL I simply (and capitalistically) proposed myself as investor and editor. This new proposual could be more democratic and maybe we find a mix where all agree on. Or then we have to be sincere and say to one: "we do not like your music." >> So there are 4 DAT tapes with contributions here, 3 accousic an one el. >>guitar. >> I can ask the guys if they are interested even paying. >> I want percussion woodwind, voice... on it!! You really ALL play guitar??? > >Well, guitar is the most accessible electric instrument, No need for an electric instrument. Any reasonably micable instrument or voice work well!! >and all the synthists can loop with MIDI more easily.... How? Matthias From ???@??? Tue Oct 29 19:55:14 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 29 17:31:33 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.56 #2) id E0vIPVD-0006Nz-00; Tue, 29 Oct 1996 17:31:31 -0800 Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 20:28:42 -0500 From: PMimlitsch@aol.com Message-ID: <961029202841_220158661@emout11.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: exchanging ideas/PROPOSAL Resent-Message-ID: <"H5Lb6.A.93F.I-qdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/872 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 17:31:31 -0800 X-UIDL: df4b74d099f91e5d9e21f5ab2f48f177 Ex Guitar/Looper here. Converted to Chapman Stick/Looper about 10 yrs. ago. New to list. -------Paul From ???@??? Wed Oct 30 00:39:41 1996 >From kflint Tue Oct 29 23:50:43 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vIVQ9-0007ZH-00; Tue, 29 Oct 1996 23:50:41 -0800 Date: 30 Oct 96 02:45:36 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Message-ID: <961030074535_100041.247_JHB75-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"lb0tsB.A.HCH.Giwdy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/875 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 23:50:41 -0800 X-UIDL: 15c5049a6b7691906fbc04f66b52b457 Matthias counts up who's interested in doing a CD ... > So far: > David > Matthias > Ted > Collier > Todd > Ray > Michael > I see, only seven, and not very convinced / with 250$ readdy. Several more people have replied to my original tape exchange proposal, and might or might not be interested in the CD thingie. Please, would the people who only replied to the tape proposal say if they're interested in doing the CD thing (with the specifics - money etc - still to be clarified) ? Adding the people who specifically reacted to the CD proposal, my count looks like this (quite possible that I missed someone - please raise your hand!) Andre LaFosse Dave Trenkel David Kirkdorffer David Orton Doug Michael Jon Morris Louis Collier Hyams Matthias Grob Michael Hughes Michael Peters Patrick Smith Ray Peck Ted R. Killian Todd Madson A looping friend of mine (Leander) who has no computer/email yet would also like to participate. Matthias: Has Kim already commented on the LoopPool tapes you sent him? Anyway: If we can successfully sort out the money etc issues, there might easily turn out to be too many participants for 1 CD - we might have to do a double CD! I think this would be cool too. It seems sensible that someone listens to all the recordings, and decides on inclusion on the CD or not (I myself would prefer a CD with a wide variety of styles and artistic quality, and I'd include everything if it's not too long and if the sound quality is acceptable). I propose that Matthias does this job because his unfinished LoopPool project was just the same thing. We could even ask David Torn if he would feel like participating in some way - I seem to remember that he had a similar project in mind as well. -Michael From ???@??? Wed Oct 30 01:49:18 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 30 01:47:14 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vIXEv-0002xu-00; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 01:47:13 -0800 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 10:45:58 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: exchanging ideas/PROPOSAL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"GU8RE.A.5uC.ePydy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/876 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 01:47:13 -0800 X-UIDL: 66fdaedfd079bbb93901559e8ee8bca4 About how looping synth via midi, Matthias asked how to do it? Quite simple. My cubase has midi delay in it. I set the thing on the duration I want. You can easily synced it to tempo, since it is a midi delay. It is my only way to play long electrnically repeated phrase since i' don't own these marvels we talk usually about. It requires a guitar synth or anything midi. I suggest that you cut some informations in the midi thru mode (filtering pitchbend, for example) otherwise, with some computer, you will crash with lack of memory. Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Wed Oct 30 09:57:53 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 30 01:57:50 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vIXPB-0003En-00; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 01:57:49 -0800 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 10:56:52 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? In-Reply-To: <961030074535_100041.247_JHB75-1@CompuServe.COM> Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"G1lnF.A.DAD.4Zydy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/877 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 01:57:49 -0800 X-UIDL: 06dd16c50a09c767c5b5fa35c0f2702d Well this is a quite developping thing. I'm afrais i would not be able to pay 250$ for such a project, nut this double CD idea might lower the price for everyone, and i'm quite sure we would find enough qulity things to fill the thing.... Olivier Malhomme On 30 Oct 1996, Michael Peters wrote: > Matthias counts up who's interested in doing a CD ... > > > So far: > > David > > Matthias > > Ted > > Collier > > Todd > > Ray > > Michael > > I see, only seven, and not very convinced / with 250$ readdy. > > Several more people have replied to my original tape exchange proposal, and > might or might not be interested in the CD thingie. Please, would the people > who only replied to the tape proposal say if they're interested in doing the > CD thing (with the specifics - money etc - still to be clarified) ? > > Adding the people who specifically reacted to the CD proposal, my count looks > like this (quite possible that I missed someone - please raise your hand!) > > Andre LaFosse > Dave Trenkel > David Kirkdorffer > David Orton > Doug Michael > Jon Morris > Louis Collier Hyams > Matthias Grob > Michael Hughes > Michael Peters > Patrick Smith > Ray Peck > Ted R. Killian > Todd Madson > > A looping friend of mine (Leander) who has no computer/email yet would also > like to participate. > > Matthias: Has Kim already commented on the LoopPool tapes you sent him? > > Anyway: If we can successfully sort out the money etc issues, there might > easily turn out to be too many participants for 1 CD - we might have to do > a double CD! I think this would be cool too. > > It seems sensible that someone listens to all the recordings, and decides on > inclusion on the CD or not (I myself would prefer a CD with a wide variety of > styles and artistic quality, and I'd include everything if it's not too long > and if the sound quality is acceptable). > > I propose that Matthias does this job because his unfinished LoopPool project > was just the same thing. We could even ask David Torn if he would feel like > participating in some way - I seem to remember that he had a similar project > in mind as well. > > -Michael > > > > From ???@??? Wed Oct 30 09:58:11 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 30 06:09:03 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vIbKI-00078X-00; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 06:09:02 -0800 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 15:06:47 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Gear Acquisition Syndrom In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"IB7P3D.A.GoG.EE2dy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/879 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 06:09:02 -0800 X-UIDL: f6aa1195662a895191e13cc305e0e305 Now that I think of it, after Andre's post, wouldn't it be nice/usefull and so on that we make a little list of all the devices usable to loop. We can imagine that not everyone of us are aware of all the good boxes existing, and that way, we won't miss a good thing on tha second hand market. Does it sound of any interest to you all? Olivier Malhomme From ???@??? Wed Oct 30 09:58:12 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 30 07:15:36 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vIcMg-0001e7-00; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 07:15:34 -0800 Message-ID: <32777055.684F@easyway.net> Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 10:12:21 -0500 From: Jonathan Brainin X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: lobbying for upgrades. References: <199610292056.MAA25340@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"OUwwmC.A.uaB.KC3dy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/880 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 07:15:34 -0800 X-UIDL: 96443aee79eb416a23a70b36151a5da9 Paolo Valladolid wrote: > > What is the possibility of Eventide producing a box that has _just_ the > stereo looping functions? Something that would sell for under $1000? > >From what I understand, the likelihood of Eventide producing a dedicated looping box that would sell for less than $1000 is nil. Eventide is a small company that, by choice, makes high end professional gear. Given the more or less (perceived) failure of looping devices for the consumer market, Eventide will not make such a device. I've asked more than once. Given their limited resources, they've focused their efforts on the next generation Ultra-Harmonizer. Jonathan From ???@??? Wed Oct 30 09:58:17 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 30 09:08:15 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vIe7i-0006zF-00; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 09:08:14 -0800 X-Sender: jtaylor@popmail.scsn.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: jtaylor@scsn.net (Jay Taylor) Subject: Re: Gear Acquisition Syndrom Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 11:57:50 -0500 Message-ID: <19961030165748955.AAA155@cola59.scsn.net> Resent-Message-ID: <"UJZ1F.A.6BG.Fl4dy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/881 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 09:08:14 -0800 X-UIDL: a1e369e35f9362bdece5fc7f3c164520 yeah - i'd like to see this compendium. At 03:06 PM 10/30/96 +0100, you wrote: > >Now that I think of it, after Andre's post, wouldn't it be nice/usefull >and so on that we make a little list of all the devices usable to loop. We >can imagine that not everyone of us are aware of all the good boxes >existing, and that way, we won't miss a good thing on tha second hand >market. Does it sound of any interest to you all? > > >Olivier Malhomme > > > > Jay Taylor Reporter The State Columbia, SC (v) 803 771 8549 (f) 803 771 8430, 8480 From ???@??? Wed Oct 30 09:58:09 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 30 05:40:55 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vIat5-0006KA-00; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 05:40:55 -0800 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <"m5NR9D.A.zvG.mMVdy"@ferret> References: Conversation <"m5NR9D.A.zvG.mMVdy"@ferret> with last message <"m5NR9D.A.zvG.mMVdy"@ferret> Priority: Normal To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From: andre cholmondeley Subject: Looping; Frisell content Date: Wed, 30 Oct 96 09:23:31 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"goXje.A.C3F.Kq1dy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/878 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 05:40:55 -0800 X-UIDL: 7148673464e9cf2c90a040d1c5a6b2d6 hey all let's not forget the ever present gear source known as the used market - there are quite a few older units that loop from over the last 12 or 15 years - i own 4 of 'em - a 2 sec digitech footpedal, an 8 sec digitech ftpdl (mentioned here as being Frisell's main stage box) , a digitech rack mounted "time machine 7.6 sec" which loops with modulation, invertable feedback, trigger & external pitch change control (these are a stellar find if you can), and finally a korg sdd2000 - these let you loop for about 3.5 sec I know these aren't huge times - but i come up with endless stuff with these - and there are others - we have to encourage people to buy used stuff anyway - we're generally getting screwed on new stuff. How come every other electronic/electric product has come down in price relative to other items - EXCEPT FOR musical equipment, huh. hmmmm. can you spell - 'captive/complacent audience...?' BTW I saw Frisell with Vernon Reid do a duet with guitars, and lotsa gear in Dec 95 at Brooklyn Academy of Music (BAM) It was great - check out their 1985 album on RYKO... but the point was - Frisell did use the jam man on stage that night - i've seen him maybe 30 times in the last 4-5 years and it was the only time he wasn't using the little digitech box. peace - andre From ???@??? Wed Oct 30 09:58:20 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 30 09:45:57 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vIeiC-0001V3-00; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 09:45:56 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199610301735.JAA02222@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: Gear Acquisition Syndrom To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 09:35:10 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "Olivier Malhomme" at Oct 30, 96 03:06:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"prt5J.A.1w.WH5dy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/882 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 09:45:56 -0800 X-UIDL: f1063e914b340d62f8b481d95bebf3e9 > Now that I think of it, after Andre's post, wouldn't it be nice/usefull > and so on that we make a little list of all the devices usable to loop. We > can imagine that not everyone of us are aware of all the good boxes > existing, and that way, we won't miss a good thing on tha second hand > market. Does it sound of any interest to you all? > > > Olivier Malhomme This is a fantastic idea! Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 01:48:49 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 30 10:16:02 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vIfBK-0003P6-00; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 10:16:02 -0800 X-Sender: kflint@pop.slip.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-mailer: Eudora Pro 2.1.3 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 10:09:16 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: kflint@annihilist.com (Kim Flint) Subject: Re: Gear Acquisition Syndrom Resent-Message-ID: <"a-xdLD.A.y5C.Cp5dy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/883 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 10:16:02 -0800 X-UIDL: 17e999108dab443459dd7b88a7520a1d >Now that I think of it, after Andre's post, wouldn't it be nice/usefull >and so on that we make a little list of all the devices usable to loop. We >can imagine that not everyone of us are aware of all the good boxes >existing, and that way, we won't miss a good thing on tha second hand >market. Does it sound of any interest to you all? > > >Olivier Malhomme The web page already has this started!!! Its just waiting for more people to come along and add their favorites to it. kim ______________________________________________________________________ Kim Flint | Looper's Delight kflint@annihilist.com | http://www.annihilist.com/loop/loop.html http://www.annihilist.com/ | Loopers-Delight-request@annihilist.com From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 01:48:59 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 30 14:33:10 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vIjC9-0002dl-00; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 14:33:09 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199610302158.NAA05033@pure.PureAtria.COM> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 15:32:36 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"1nXioB.A.yVC.Rc9dy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/885 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 14:33:09 -0800 X-UIDL: 211dea990ce9dd076ac66b3b0ff25425 Count me in too! Currently, I don't have anything to submit, but give me a deadline and I'll have something ready! Also I have a friend who works for a graphic design company. I'll ask him if he'd donate his time and/or resources. - Chris >>What is the problem in making 1000 CDs? Lack of investing members? >> >>So far: >> >>David >>Matthias >>Ted >>Collier >>Todd >>Ray >>Michael > >I'm not in if this is done as a semi-commercial vanture like this. I >thought it was just going to be a friendly list disk. --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 01:48:56 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 30 14:04:47 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vIikg-0000uM-00; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 14:04:46 -0800 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 13:58:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199610302158.NAA05033@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"AGKkeD.A.ko.sA9dy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/884 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 14:04:46 -0800 X-UIDL: 3b702c7cf116222af75ebd19cbdc2898 >What is the problem in making 1000 CDs? Lack of investing members? > >So far: > >David >Matthias >Ted >Collier >Todd >Ray >Michael I'm not in if this is done as a semi-commercial vanture like this. I thought it was just going to be a friendly list disk. From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 01:49:03 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 30 15:19:14 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vIjuj-0005Lq-00; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 15:19:13 -0800 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 15:15:57 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199610302315.PAA22114@pure.PureAtria.COM> From: Ray Peck To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com In-Reply-To: <961030074535_100041.247_JHB75-1@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"NX2OfB.A.D3E.uH-dy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/886 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 15:19:13 -0800 X-UIDL: 2593c377528ab0543bb65f8726bac88c >Adding the people who specifically reacted to the CD proposal, my count looks >like this (quite possible that I missed someone - please raise your hand!) I'm interested, and can burn CDs, if it's a small, home-made list-only type thing. From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 01:49:04 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 30 15:32:24 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vIk7R-0006AU-00; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 15:32:21 -0800 Date: 30 Oct 96 18:27:55 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: Gear Acquisition Syndrom Message-ID: <961030232754_100041.247_JHB115-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"Gt7s7C.A.iqF.MU-dy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/887 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 15:32:21 -0800 X-UIDL: d46936ed3e7602daaf540de3e431f235 Olivier: > that we make a little list of all the devices usable to loop. > We can imagine that not everyone of us are aware of all the good boxes > existing, and that way, we won't miss a good thing on tha second hand > market. Does it sound of any interest to you all? Yes, very much!! contributions pleaze! (judging from, say, the 'essential looping records' page, not many contributions will come, but who knows) -Michael From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 01:49:20 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 30 21:51:26 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vIq2H-0003rm-00; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 21:51:25 -0800 Date: 30 Oct 96 19:14:22 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Message-ID: <961031001422_100041.247_JHB68-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"PIVsMC.A.QiD.P4Dey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/891 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 21:51:25 -0800 X-UIDL: 3e759e0fc85e524d5b23805e9bad5a06 hi Ray, > I'm not in if this is done as a semi-commercial vanture like this. > I thought it was just going to be a friendly list disk. We're still discussing several possible models of how to exchange ideas - we haven't decided for a commercial venture, nor against it (I think). Maybe we should first do a CD just for list members, and then see if it has enough 'commercial potential' to produce larger quantities. At any rate, I'm sure everyone would agree that the disk (or whatever will be the outcome) should foremost remain a friendly project! -Michael From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 01:49:07 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 30 16:47:35 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vIlID-000343-00; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 16:47:33 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 16:43:48 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: finley@ecst.csuchico.edu (Matthew F. McCabe) Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"AEhKv.A.0mC.YZ_dy"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/888 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 16:47:33 -0800 X-UIDL: a9c71d250fc884a7a304726c90e5f7b9 >Adding the people who specifically reacted to the CD proposal, my count looks >like this (quite possible that I missed someone - please raise your hand!) > >Andre LaFosse >Dave Trenkel >David Kirkdorffer >David Orton >Doug Michael >Jon Morris >Louis Collier Hyams >Matthias Grob >Michael Hughes >Michael Peters >Patrick Smith >Ray Peck >Ted R. Killian >Todd Madson I'd like to ad my name (Matt McCabe) to the Loopers-Delight CD list!!! Thanks! ------------------------------------------------------------ King Never http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~finley/kingnever.html ------------------------------------------------------------ Matthew F. McCabe Able Cain King Never Marathon Records From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 01:49:12 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 30 19:21:47 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vInhS-000350-00; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 19:21:46 -0800 X-Sender: paulpop@marlin.ssnet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 23:24:26 -0500 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Paulpop@ssnet.com (Paul Poplawski, Phd) Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"Yv1NPC.A.rwC.xrBey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/890 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 19:21:46 -0800 X-UIDL: 7f79c95855aebf8a297b848810e1982d >>Adding the people who specifically reacted to the CD proposal, my count looks >>like this (quite possible that I missed someone - please raise your hand!) >> >>Andre LaFosse >>Dave Trenkel >>David Kirkdorffer >>David Orton >>Doug Michael >>Jon Morris >>Louis Collier Hyams >>Matthias Grob >>Michael Hughes >>Michael Peters >>Patrick Smith >>Ray Peck >>Ted R. Killian >>Todd Madson > >I'd like to ad my name (Matt McCabe) to the Loopers-Delight CD list!!! Thanks! > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------ >King Never http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~finley/kingnever.html >------------------------------------------------------------ >Matthew F. McCabe >Able Cain >King Never >Marathon Records > > >Please add my name to the list Paul > From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 01:49:22 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 30 22:29:54 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vIqdW-0005d5-00; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 22:29:54 -0800 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 22:20:24 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: More on the CD Thingie Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"qlIY2B.A.CNF.ocEey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/892 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 22:29:54 -0800 X-UIDL: 1b12ca87261a2b3f9fe4810cc48c93c0 I'm still interested *generally* in the notion of doing some sort of compilation CD derived from the membership of the list, but I do think that it should be done one step at a time. In other words, first do it on a small basis, and independently burn enough CDs to cover the interested parties on the list. Once we know what we've got, and are of some sort of consensus about it, then we can start thinking about mass-production and/or distribution. I do think that jumping into the notion of running off a batch of 1000 CDs before we know exactly what we've got is rather premature. So again, I'd recommend doing it on a small scale first and foremost. --Andre (West Coast Edition) From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 01:49:11 1996 >From kflint Wed Oct 30 19:20:56 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vIngc-00030j-00; Wed, 30 Oct 1996 19:20:55 -0800 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <"AEhKv.A.0mC.YZ_dy"@ferret> References: Conversation <"AEhKv.A.0mC.YZ_dy"@ferret> with last message <"AEhKv.A.0mC.YZ_dy"@ferret> Priority: Normal To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com MIME-Version: 1.0 From: andre cholmondeley Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Date: Wed, 30 Oct 96 22:59:21 PST Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"wzeggC.A.KjC.AnBey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/889 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 19:20:55 -0800 X-UIDL: d2b2dab94319ba7a6f0d94d894cdfd6a add my name!! i'm the other, 'new' andre who prompted the new list of older devices, it seems ---> Andre Cholmondeley >Adding the people who specifically reacted to the CD proposal, my count looks >like this (quite possible that I missed someone - please raise your hand!) > >Andre LaFosse >Dave Trenkel >David Kirkdorffer >David Orton >Doug Michael >Jon Morris >Louis Collier Hyams >Matthias Grob >Michael Hughes >Michael Peters >Patrick Smith >Ray Peck >Ted R. Killian >Todd Madson I'd like to ad my name (Matt McCabe) to the Loopers-Delight CD list!!! Thanks! ------------------------------------------------------------ King Never http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~finley/kingnever.html ------------------------------------------------------------ Matthew F. McCabe Able Cain King Never Marathon Records From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 01:49:26 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 31 00:20:40 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vIsMh-00023o-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 00:20:39 -0800 Date: 31 Oct 96 03:14:41 EST From: Michael Peters <100041.247@CompuServe.COM> To: Subject: personal profiles page Message-ID: <961031081441_100041.247_JHB72-1@CompuServe.COM> Resent-Message-ID: <"AgybP.A.v2B.QEGey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/893 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 00:20:39 -0800 X-UIDL: 4e20052c204b7e706714916bf3c304ab > i'm the other, 'new' andre who prompted the new list of older devices welcome 'new' andre, 'the other' michael, and all the other new participants! the list seems to be growing fast, and it becomes harder to keep track of who is who, but if you want, you can step out of anonymity and introduce yourself to the other list members by putting your 'personal profile' on our 'worldwide index of loop artists' web page. to do this, please submit your personal profile via private email to 100041.247@compuserve.com. (it will take at least a week until it turns up on the page.) you're also welcome to contribute reviews of your favorite looping records for the 'essential loop recordings' loopology web page (also send to me please), as well as listings and descriptions of looping devices. -michael peters From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 01:49:27 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 31 00:23:21 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vIsPJ-0002CS-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 00:23:21 -0800 Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:22:05 +0100 (MET) From: Olivier Malhomme To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: "GIS INFOBIOGEN, 7 rue Guy Moquet BP8, 94801 VILLEJUIF, France" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"oY0FBC.A.1_B.zGGey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/894 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 00:23:21 -0800 X-UIDL: 95ffb77c104ecef09d19ab945c250606 In regard of money involved, I'd like to be in toooo Olivier Malhomme On Wed, 30 Oct 1996, Matthew F. McCabe wrote: > >Adding the people who specifically reacted to the CD proposal, my count looks > >like this (quite possible that I missed someone - please raise your hand!) > > > >Andre LaFosse > >Dave Trenkel > >David Kirkdorffer > >David Orton > >Doug Michael > >Jon Morris > >Louis Collier Hyams > >Matthias Grob > >Michael Hughes > >Michael Peters > >Patrick Smith > >Ray Peck > >Ted R. Killian > >Todd Madson > > I'd like to ad my name (Matt McCabe) to the Loopers-Delight CD list!!! Thanks! > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > King Never http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~finley/kingnever.html > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Matthew F. McCabe > Able Cain > King Never > Marathon Records > > > > > > > > From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 10:37:06 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 31 09:51:53 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJ1HU-0002UG-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:51:52 -0800 Message-ID: <32789202.FD2@interaccess.com> Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 11:50:09 +0000 From: James Coker X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: MIDI Loops References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"1ddPc.A.fKC.RaOey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/899 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:51:52 -0800 X-UIDL: 3a1d5712cb3176d94a421c13da1e225d Matthias Grob wrote: > > >About how looping synth via midi, Matthias asked how to do it? > >Quite simple. My cubase has midi delay in it. I set the thing on the > >duration I want. You can easily synced it to tempo, since it is a midi > >delay. > > Oh I see, it like a digital effect for MIDI, not the sequencer itself you use. > But can you control its parameters while playing so as to "freeze" a loop > for soloing or have it fade out to renew it etc? > Is there any option to multiply the delay time while playing? > > Still curious > Matthias I've achieved midi looping two ways. One was to trick MOTU Performer into looping and doing additive recording on the same track at the same time, the primary problem was chasing note releases on playback. The other is to use Opcode MAX, with which you can do just about anything you could want (with midi), provided you have the time to build and debug it. It is very easy w/ Max to do midi delay lines w/ feedback. jim From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 23:52:56 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 31 15:58:57 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJ70e-00019o-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:58:52 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 18:15:11 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Re: BRACE YOURSELVES!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"zHD8dC.A.l2.RyTey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/914 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:58:52 -0800 X-UIDL: 620be983d68b7da17d42e3a8b09baf8a I'm interested how many members are local to the DC area or the East Coast in general. A very good idea. Patrick >Peeples -- > >I've been thinking about this since I started compiling submissions for >the profile list, and now I want to see what y'all think about it. > >The idea is this: To try and stage some sort of live gathering of loop >artists. Once again, I'm taking a cue from the Stick community, who >organized a "Stick Night" at the Iguana here in LA a couple of years ago. >Seeing as there are so many loopists based in California, it seems to me >that it would be feasible to try and arrange some sort of multi-artist >gathering/performance thing. The results could even be recorded and >distributed for posterity. > >So what do you people think? Is there sufficient interest and ability >among those of us on the West Coast to try to arrange a regional meeting >and performance? Who would be into it? Where would be the best location, >both in terms of travel logistics and in terms of finding an appropriate >venue? For that matter, what sort of venue should we consider? > >(And beyond that, is there a concentration of loopists in some other part >of the country where a different regional performance could be staged?) > >OK, your turn. Tell me what you all think about this. My feeling is, >there are enough of us concentrated in a relatively local orientation >that something like this really should be tried. > >'Till next time, > >--Andre (West Coast edition) From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 23:52:57 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 31 16:01:07 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJ72k-0001M1-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 16:01:02 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 18:18:34 +0200 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Re: Analog Loops Resent-Message-ID: <"Fu6LTC.A.YFB.60Tey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/915 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 16:01:02 -0800 X-UIDL: dc895a5dc39410d6b6a86e0575f2e3fb >Patrik: >>So as you can see we have a good analog base to our loops, but also digital >>and FM synths. We've also used acoustic guitar and a vase filled with >>marbles and water. Whatever the music requires is what drives us. > On 10/31/96 Matthias asked: >So the music required marbles and water? How interesting. >How do you mike the vase? >Do you loop it on stage, too? > >Curious Matthias Well the vase was sort of a goblet shape, had aproximately twenty marbles in it and was 1/3 filled with water. I swished it around in my bathroom, picke dit up with a stereo mic that was feeding a Jam Man. A complex very cool sound, at least to Steev and I. We've not done this live, at least not yet! Patrick From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 10:36:54 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 31 08:39:14 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJ09B-00064C-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:39:13 -0800 Message-Id: <199610311635.AA04452@internet-mail.ford.com> From: "Steven R. Murrell" To: "'Loop'" Subject: Loopers CD Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 11:33:02 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"vUsiIB.A.9gF.sVNey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/895 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:39:13 -0800 X-UIDL: 5a84922754aea54d95b9d885040406af >>Adding the people who specifically reacted to the CD proposal, my count looks >>like this (quite possible that I missed someone - please raise your hand!) >> >>Andre LaFosse >>Dave Trenkel >>David Kirkdorffer >>David Orton >>Doug Michael >>Jon Morris >>Louis Collier Hyams >>Matthias Grob >>Michael Hughes >>Michael Peters >>Patrick Smith >>Ray Peck >>Ted R. Killian >>Todd Madson > I am interested as well. Of course I will be listening for additional info....... Steve Murrell From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 10:37:10 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 31 10:10:11 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJ1ZB-0003av-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:10:09 -0800 From: Paolo Valladolid Message-Id: <199610311808.KAA13020@waynesworld.ucsd.edu> Subject: Re: MIDI Loops To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:08:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "Matthias Grob" at Oct 31, 96 03:23:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <"9IF4yB.A.YQD.QsOey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/900 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:10:09 -0800 X-UIDL: 95e7f031be4d896f13842576ec8ad171 > >About how looping synth via midi, Matthias asked how to do it? > >Quite simple. My cubase has midi delay in it. I set the thing on the > >duration I want. You can easily synced it to tempo, since it is a midi > >delay. > > Oh I see, it like a digital effect for MIDI, not the sequencer itself you use. > But can you control its parameters while playing so as to "freeze" a loop > for soloing or have it fade out to renew it etc? > Is there any option to multiply the delay time while playing? > > Still curious > Matthias I used an Opcode Max patch that had eight delay lines, each of which pitch-shifted to a different interval and each of which had it's own "seed" number to multiply with the input MIDI velocity value to produce a delay time. In addition, my patch would, at random, record a phrase and play it back. I could have easily set it up to loop the recorded phrase indefinitely. I used my GR700 MIDI guitar setup for input. I really enjoyed the flexibility of Max combined with the portability of my Powerbook. About the only drawback was that the resultant sounds lacked the complexity of "real" strings. I had to stop when my GR700 broke down, but if I had been able to continue I would have liked to explore a different direction than looping devices such as the Echoplex, JamDude, etc. Opcode Max and MIDI, as wonderful as they are, cannot really compete in the same arena since they don't deal with real acoustic sound sources; to try to imitate something like an Echoplex seems pointless. Instead, I would have liked to try things that can't be done with an acoustically-based looper, like the things described in the book _Interactive Music_. Paolo Valladolid ----------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ----------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 10:37:12 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 31 10:20:40 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJ1jJ-0004E0-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:20:37 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ccnet3.ccnet.com: dmic27 owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:18:20 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Michael X-Sender: dmic27@ccnet3 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? In-Reply-To: <199610302315.PAA22114@pure.PureAtria.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"TqH5_.A.a1D.C2Oey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/901 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:20:37 -0800 X-UIDL: 863cc0b50f84d380a6f692a5f1e0a488 On Wed, 30 Oct 1996, Ray Peck wrote: > >Adding the people who specifically reacted to the CD proposal, my count looks > >like this (quite possible that I missed someone - please raise your hand!) > > I'm interested, and can burn CDs, if it's a small, home-made list-only > type thing. I'd also be interested in a small release list only type thing. Count me in for that. The $250 CD proposal is a great idea, but I just don't have the money for it. Doug Michael http://www.ccnet.com/~dmic27 From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 10:37:01 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 31 09:21:28 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJ0o2-0000ho-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:21:26 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:23:19 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Analog Loops Resent-Message-ID: <"qB-8sD.A.Ea.u9Ney"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/896 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:21:26 -0800 X-UIDL: 24dd8d24eaafa04f4ed11bf067c2a130 Patrik: >So as you can see we have a good analog base to our loops, but also digital >and FM synths. We've also used acoustic guitar and a vase filled with >marbles and water. Whatever the music requires is what drives us. So the music required marbles and water? How interesting. How do you mike the vase? Do you loop it on stage, too? Curious Matthias From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 10:37:04 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 31 09:22:11 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJ0od-0000la-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:22:03 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:23:29 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: MIDI Loops Resent-Message-ID: <"deSEnD.A.6c.J-Ney"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/897 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:22:03 -0800 X-UIDL: 7132cf16934a434ce2ac02345ae06be5 >About how looping synth via midi, Matthias asked how to do it? >Quite simple. My cubase has midi delay in it. I set the thing on the >duration I want. You can easily synced it to tempo, since it is a midi >delay. Oh I see, it like a digital effect for MIDI, not the sequencer itself you use. But can you control its parameters while playing so as to "freeze" a loop for soloing or have it fade out to renew it etc? Is there any option to multiply the delay time while playing? Still curious Matthias From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 10:37:03 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 31 09:21:43 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJ0oH-0000jN-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:21:41 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:23:36 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"ANmwkD.A.qe.Z-Ney"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/898 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:21:41 -0800 X-UIDL: 3e6038808a1335bbc96614fcd4788f67 Olivier: >Well this is a quite developping thing. I'm afrais i would not be able to >pay 250$ for such a project, nut this double CD idea might lower the price >for everyone, and i'm quite sure we would find enough qulity things to >fill the thing.... Yes, that makes sense. Since you are all guitar players (and some synth and marbles :-), I suggest that we search for some other instruments to complete. - In France lives David Hoppkins building and playing all kinds of percussion instruments and flutes and so on. He made three CDs so far. The one with only bambu instruments (but full 16 channel orchestra of them!) I recorded and we used loops. He still uses the LOOP delay a lot, I hope. - In Switzerland Matthias Ziegler uses the LOOP delay with bass and bariton flutes. He got famous for playing with Andreas Vollenweider and has his own CD out. I guess he plays in US, too. - In San Franzisco Jim Mahoney sings solo concerts with a LOOP delay. I have seen one and have some recordings here. Amazing african high pitch jazz voice and mouth percussion. I have no Idea why he did not join the list. He had a afro jazz band called Nomad and brought a beautyfull CD out (no loops on it) I doubt that those guys would pay to appear because they have their work out. But it could make the LOOP CD richer. Should I invite them? Matthias From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 23:52:24 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 31 12:52:51 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJ46Y-0001Pk-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:52:46 -0800 Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 14:48:05 CST From: "Todd Madson" Message-Id: <9609318468.AA846801931@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ToddM@lasermaster.com Subject: Re[2]: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"uqW6-.A.BHB.BERey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/905 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:52:46 -0800 X-UIDL: 52602465c70f23d8b6aa4126fa64001f On Wed, 30 Oct 1996, Ray Peck wrote: > >Adding the people who specifically reacted to the CD proposal, my count looks > >like this (quite possible that I missed someone - please raise your hand!) > > I'm interested, and can burn CDs, if it's a small, home-made list-only > type thing. > I'd also be interested in a small release list only type thing. > Count me in for that. The $250 CD proposal is a great idea, but I just > don't have the money for it. > Doug Michael > http://www.ccnet.com/~dmic27 Yeah, that's where I sit too. I'm a married guy and can do things on a smaller scale - that's where we should start. If that generates interest then maybe we can go forth from there with a bigger project. Todd Madson. Received: from spica.LaserMaster.Com by ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com (SMTPLINK V2.10.08) ; Thu, 31 Oct 96 12:17:21 CST Return-Path: Received: from ferret.slip.net (ferret.slip.net [204.160.88.6]) by spica.LaserMaster.Com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA16447 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:23:29 -0600 (CST) Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJ1iR-0004Ac-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:19:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ccnet3.ccnet.com: dmic27 owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:18:20 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Michael X-Sender: dmic27@ccnet3 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? In-Reply-To: <199610302315.PAA22114@pure.PureAtria.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"TqH5_.A.a1D.C2Oey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/901 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: ToddM@lasermaster.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:19:43 -0800 From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 23:52:29 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 31 13:29:38 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJ4g5-0004WI-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 13:29:29 -0800 Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 15:22:36 CST From: "Todd Madson" Message-Id: <9609318468.AA846804031@ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com> To: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith), ToddM@lasermaster.com, loopers-delight@annihilist.com, Todd.Madson@spica.LaserMaster.Com Subject: Re: Vortex Resent-Message-ID: <"a5I-Y.A.H7D.TlRey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/906 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 13:29:29 -0800 X-UIDL: 998dbb1ba1c728b8e8d1ea9c8026061e >Message was resent -- Original recipients were: To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com-------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------- Here ya go, kids. I'm sending this one again since I've been inundated with requests by newbies on the list. This time I've re-edited for better formatting over the net and also added the forgotton Res1 parameters and added some commentary for ideas. Useability: Works for me. Caveat: If they don't work, don't say I never gave you anything. Warning: Massive Processes. The first two patches concern Atmosphere 2. The third uses Choir 2 The "synthy echo guitar" patch also works great on synth pads - it'l take your old synth and make it sound modern in no time. Both the two atmosphere patches work great on clean guitars. The chorus patch is great if you add a two-beat echo for volume swells - it sounds like the massive volume-pedal swelled guitar on Holdsworth's "Road Games", but with more of a Leslie-esque flavor that I love. ATMOSPHERE2 ATMOSPHERE2 CHOIR2 Wirey Clean Guitar Synthy Echo Guitar Burbly Volume Swell Mix 43 64 49 Output 64 64 64 Mod FX Lvl 50 64 45 EchoFX Lvl 55 64 45 Morph 64 64 20 Envelope 22 10 35 Echo 08 08 02 Echo2 08 06 06 Feedback 40 64 34 Feedback2 47 40 29 Rate1 04 30 28 Depth1 41 29 26 Rate2 03 08 34 Depth2 23 50 29 Res1 28 28 01 Res2 28 64 14 Okay kids, this is it for now. If the formatting went to hell, I'll have to find some other way of doing it, but this works for me, try it out. "The Vortex Guy" Todd Madson PressMate Product Specialist LaserMaster Big Color Technical Support Corporate Web Site: http://www.lasermaster.com/ LaserMaster BBS: (612) TEK-LINE OTIS Faxback Service: (612) 943-3737 _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Vortex From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) at Internet Date: 10/31/96 2:55 PM Hi Todd, There was a post last week about a sight where you had listed some Vortex patches you made. I'd like to see them, but joined this list after your post. COuld you send them to me or is it at an URL site? Peace, Patrick Received: from spica.LaserMaster.Com by ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com (SMTPLINK V2.10.08) ; Thu, 31 Oct 96 14:55:54 CST Return-Path: Received: from mail.his.com (mail.his.com [205.177.25.9]) by spica.LaserMaster.Com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA17498 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:02:02 -0600 (CST) Received: from [205.177.25.43] (patrick.his.com [205.177.25.43]) by mail.his.com (8.6.9/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA15939 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:54:56 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:18:24 +0200 To: ToddM@lasermaster.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Vortex From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 23:52:11 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 31 12:38:47 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJ3ss-0000Es-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:38:38 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 18:40:00 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: Gear Acquisition Syndrom Resent-Message-ID: <"PDVj_C.A.6PH.M2Qey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/902 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:38:38 -0800 X-UIDL: 244e31fb35a816cf36becd87a5695404 Olivier Malhomme >Now that I think of it, after Andre's post, wouldn't it be nice/usefull >and so on that we make a little list of all the devices usable to loop. We >can imagine that not everyone of us are aware of all the good boxes >existing, and that way, we won't miss a good thing on tha second hand >market. Does it sound of any interest to you all? Perfect! Go ahead! From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 23:52:13 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 31 12:38:51 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJ3sw-0000FE-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:38:42 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 18:40:13 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"bUfsaB.A.eRH.d2Qey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/903 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:38:42 -0800 X-UIDL: 559b93ad7ade2d05a48089555dac89f0 >>What is the problem in making 1000 CDs? Lack of investing members? >> Ray: >I'm not in if this is done as a semi-commercial vanture like this. I >thought it was just going to be a friendly list disk. I feel unfriendly now :-) Maybe you are right. A way would be to do the friendly CD and distribute it on CDR as you suggested and then later (when the money comes :-) I can do the LOOP POOL project and maybe include stuff from the friendly CD. friendly Matthias From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 23:52:14 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 31 12:40:12 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJ3uF-0000NG-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:40:03 -0800 X-Sender: matthias@bonfim.bahianet.com.br Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 18:41:13 -0300 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: matthias@bahianet.com.br (Matthias Grob) Subject: Re: lobbying for upgrades. Resent-Message-ID: <"S-RKdC.A.qB.M3Qey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/904 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:40:03 -0800 X-UIDL: a62e558b3391783e7c2f5058fc161721 >Jon Durant wrote: >> I don't know what Eventide are dooing loop-wise. I do know tey've got a >> rediculously priced "guitar" version of the DSP4000, but apparently it >>doesn't >> sound so great (from the mouth of DT), and it looks really lame. Jonatan answered >Also, a friend at Eventide tell me that they're working on the >DSP/GTR4500. >This would have four independent inputs and outputs, stereo looping >ability >of up to six (or was it eight) minutes using standard 72 pin simms, and >too >many other features to recall. The one Eventide I repaired here (about three years old) was full of chips. Like my own old prototypes. You can achieve a lot with this technology, but never a decent price or a small box. As long as the equipment is for high end application, this might be the right way to go. But a cheap thing takes experience of the Alesis kind really. You may kick them for some honourable reason, but they know how to build. Like the Japanese. And musicians seem to become more and more demanding in terms of low prices. When I started playing a LesPaul was like $2500. And there was a lot of inflation since. Matthias From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 23:52:41 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 31 14:42:47 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJ5or-0002bL-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:42:37 -0800 Message-Id: <9610312218.AA20712@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com> X-Sender: cavaleri@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:12:24 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Joe Cavaleri Subject: Re: lobbying for upgrades. Resent-Message-ID: <"9aEru.A.nOC.pqSey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/910 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:42:37 -0800 X-UIDL: 69cc2f5a7488b118c34cbf3067de0045 >Jon Durant wrote: >> I don't know what Eventide are dooing loop-wise. I do know tey've got a >> rediculously priced "guitar" version of the DSP4000, but apparently it >>doesn't >> sound so great (from the mouth of DT), and it looks really lame. Jonatan answered >Also, a friend at Eventide tell me that they're working on the >DSP/GTR4500. >This would have four independent inputs and outputs, stereo looping >ability >of up to six (or was it eight) minutes using standard 72 pin simms, and >too >many other features to recall. The one Eventide I repaired here (about three years old) was full of chips. Like my own old prototypes. You can achieve a lot with this technology, but never a decent price or a small box. As long as the equipment is for high end application, this might be the right way to go. But a cheap thing takes experience of the Alesis kind really. You may kick them for some honourable reason, but they know how to build. Like the Japanese. And musicians seem to become more and more demanding in terms of low prices. When I started playing a LesPaul was like $2500. And there was a lot of inflation since. Matthias From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 23:52:33 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 31 14:14:40 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJ5Ng-0000Pk-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:14:32 -0800 Message-Id: <9610312218.AA16879@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com> X-Sender: cavaleri@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:12:35 -0800 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com, ToddM@lasermaster.com From: Joe Cavaleri Subject: Re[2]: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? Resent-Message-ID: <"AUDb8D.A.rL.cQSey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/907 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:14:32 -0800 X-UIDL: 8f8456113590bbf19f047a76c1fbc8b8 On Wed, 30 Oct 1996, Ray Peck wrote: > >Adding the people who specifically reacted to the CD proposal, my count looks > >like this (quite possible that I missed someone - please raise your hand!) > > I'm interested, and can burn CDs, if it's a small, home-made list-only > type thing. > I'd also be interested in a small release list only type thing. > Count me in for that. The $250 CD proposal is a great idea, but I just > don't have the money for it. > Doug Michael > http://www.ccnet.com/~dmic27 Yeah, that's where I sit too. I'm a married guy and can do things on a smaller scale - that's where we should start. If that generates interest then maybe we can go forth from there with a bigger project. Todd Madson. Received: from spica.LaserMaster.Com by ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com (SMTPLINK V2.10.08) ; Thu, 31 Oct 96 12:17:21 CST Return-Path: Received: from ferret.slip.net (ferret.slip.net [204.160.88.6]) by spica.LaserMaster.Com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA16447 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:23:29 -0600 (CST) Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJ1iR-0004Ac-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:19:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: ccnet3.ccnet.com: dmic27 owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:18:20 -0800 (PST) From: Doug Michael X-Sender: dmic27@ccnet3 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Re: How about a Loopers-Delight CD? In-Reply-To: <199610302315.PAA22114@pure.PureAtria.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"TqH5_.A.a1D.C2Oey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/901 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: ToddM@lasermaster.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:19:43 -0800 From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 23:52:36 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 31 14:23:26 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJ5WF-000179-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:23:23 -0800 Message-Id: <9610312218.AA13303@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com> X-Sender: cavaleri@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:13:03 -0800 To: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith), ToddM@lasermaster.com, loopers-delight@annihilist.com, Todd.Madson@spica.LaserMaster.Com From: Joe Cavaleri Subject: Re: Vortex Resent-Message-ID: <"8Xs0z.A.Y2._YSey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/908 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:23:23 -0800 X-UIDL: ce037b19c72d98cd5a8c8095ac08818b >Message was resent -- Original recipients were: To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com-------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------- Here ya go, kids. I'm sending this one again since I've been inundated with requests by newbies on the list. This time I've re-edited for better formatting over the net and also added the forgotton Res1 parameters and added some commentary for ideas. Useability: Works for me. Caveat: If they don't work, don't say I never gave you anything. Warning: Massive Processes. The first two patches concern Atmosphere 2. The third uses Choir 2 The "synthy echo guitar" patch also works great on synth pads - it'l take your old synth and make it sound modern in no time. Both the two atmosphere patches work great on clean guitars. The chorus patch is great if you add a two-beat echo for volume swells - it sounds like the massive volume-pedal swelled guitar on Holdsworth's "Road Games", but with more of a Leslie-esque flavor that I love. ATMOSPHERE2 ATMOSPHERE2 CHOIR2 Wirey Clean Guitar Synthy Echo Guitar Burbly Volume Swell Mix 43 64 49 Output 64 64 64 Mod FX Lvl 50 64 45 EchoFX Lvl 55 64 45 Morph 64 64 20 Envelope 22 10 35 Echo 08 08 02 Echo2 08 06 06 Feedback 40 64 34 Feedback2 47 40 29 Rate1 04 30 28 Depth1 41 29 26 Rate2 03 08 34 Depth2 23 50 29 Res1 28 28 01 Res2 28 64 14 Okay kids, this is it for now. If the formatting went to hell, I'll have to find some other way of doing it, but this works for me, try it out. "The Vortex Guy" Todd Madson PressMate Product Specialist LaserMaster Big Color Technical Support Corporate Web Site: http://www.lasermaster.com/ LaserMaster BBS: (612) TEK-LINE OTIS Faxback Service: (612) 943-3737 _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Vortex From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) at Internet Date: 10/31/96 2:55 PM Hi Todd, There was a post last week about a sight where you had listed some Vortex patches you made. I'd like to see them, but joined this list after your post. COuld you send them to me or is it at an URL site? Peace, Patrick Received: from spica.LaserMaster.Com by ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com (SMTPLINK V2.10.08) ; Thu, 31 Oct 96 14:55:54 CST Return-Path: Received: from mail.his.com (mail.his.com [205.177.25.9]) by spica.LaserMaster.Com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA17498 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:02:02 -0600 (CST) Received: from [205.177.25.43] (patrick.his.com [205.177.25.43]) by mail.his.com (8.6.9/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA15939 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:54:56 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:18:24 +0200 To: ToddM@lasermaster.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Vortex From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 23:52:52 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 31 15:27:45 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJ6WT-000631-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:27:41 -0800 Message-Id: <199610312325.PAA50722@scv3.apple.com> Subject: Re: BRACE YOURSELVES!!! Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 15:25:26 -0700 x-sender: attix@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: Tom Attix* To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Resent-Message-ID: <"U-OQPC.A.laF.eUTey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/912 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:27:41 -0800 X-UIDL: ee13e7388f670e46064b0d673c45e285 Andre- I'd be interested in that. I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area but I think venue is probably going to be the real issue. If somebody could come up with a really cool place to play, it would certainly be worth a trip and flights to LA are pretty cheap. Maybe halfway, looping in Big Sur (probably bad acoustics, but who cares)? -Tom Attix _______________________________________________ attix@apple.com _______________________________________________ "Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps". - Emo Phillips From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 23:52:38 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 31 14:32:49 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJ5fC-0001rT-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:32:38 -0800 Message-Id: <9610312234.AA13247@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com> X-Sender: cavaleri@svars1.simi-valley.ate.slb.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:28:55 -0800 To: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith), ToddM@lasermaster.com, loopers-delight@annihilist.com, Todd.Madson@spica.LaserMaster.Com From: Joe Cavaleri Subject: Re: Vortex Resent-Message-ID: <"SUnlAC.A.YeB.5gSey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/909 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:32:38 -0800 X-UIDL: 9008428ba116c3f69b31b70a2c976efa >Message was resent -- Original recipients were: To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com-------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------- Here ya go, kids. I'm sending this one again since I've been inundated with requests by newbies on the list. This time I've re-edited for better formatting over the net and also added the forgotton Res1 parameters and added some commentary for ideas. Useability: Works for me. Caveat: If they don't work, don't say I never gave you anything. Warning: Massive Processes. The first two patches concern Atmosphere 2. The third uses Choir 2 The "synthy echo guitar" patch also works great on synth pads - it'l take your old synth and make it sound modern in no time. Both the two atmosphere patches work great on clean guitars. The chorus patch is great if you add a two-beat echo for volume swells - it sounds like the massive volume-pedal swelled guitar on Holdsworth's "Road Games", but with more of a Leslie-esque flavor that I love. ATMOSPHERE2 ATMOSPHERE2 CHOIR2 Wirey Clean Guitar Synthy Echo Guitar Burbly Volume Swell Mix 43 64 49 Output 64 64 64 Mod FX Lvl 50 64 45 EchoFX Lvl 55 64 45 Morph 64 64 20 Envelope 22 10 35 Echo 08 08 02 Echo2 08 06 06 Feedback 40 64 34 Feedback2 47 40 29 Rate1 04 30 28 Depth1 41 29 26 Rate2 03 08 34 Depth2 23 50 29 Res1 28 28 01 Res2 28 64 14 Okay kids, this is it for now. If the formatting went to hell, I'll have to find some other way of doing it, but this works for me, try it out. "The Vortex Guy" Todd Madson PressMate Product Specialist LaserMaster Big Color Technical Support Corporate Web Site: http://www.lasermaster.com/ LaserMaster BBS: (612) TEK-LINE OTIS Faxback Service: (612) 943-3737 _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Vortex From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) at Internet Date: 10/31/96 2:55 PM Hi Todd, There was a post last week about a sight where you had listed some Vortex patches you made. I'd like to see them, but joined this list after your post. COuld you send them to me or is it at an URL site? Peace, Patrick Received: from spica.LaserMaster.Com by ccmailgate.LaserMaster.Com (SMTPLINK V2.10.08) ; Thu, 31 Oct 96 14:55:54 CST Return-Path: Received: from mail.his.com (mail.his.com [205.177.25.9]) by spica.LaserMaster.Com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA17498 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:02:02 -0600 (CST) Received: from [205.177.25.43] (patrick.his.com [205.177.25.43]) by mail.his.com (8.6.9/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA15939 for ; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:54:56 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:18:24 +0200 To: ToddM@lasermaster.com From: patrick@his.com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Vortex From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 23:52:48 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 31 15:10:19 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJ6FU-0004he-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:10:08 -0800 Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:56:55 -0800 (PST) From: The Man Himself To: loopers-delight@annihilist.com Subject: BRACE YOURSELVES!!! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"Bc31R.A.COE.1ETey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/911 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:10:08 -0800 X-UIDL: affffcbd64d1213bdaa2194a58b192a6 Peeples -- I've been thinking about this since I started compiling submissions for the profile list, and now I want to see what y'all think about it. The idea is this: To try and stage some sort of live gathering of loop artists. Once again, I'm taking a cue from the Stick community, who organized a "Stick Night" at the Iguana here in LA a couple of years ago. Seeing as there are so many loopists based in California, it seems to me that it would be feasible to try and arrange some sort of multi-artist gathering/performance thing. The results could even be recorded and distributed for posterity. So what do you people think? Is there sufficient interest and ability among those of us on the West Coast to try to arrange a regional meeting and performance? Who would be into it? Where would be the best location, both in terms of travel logistics and in terms of finding an appropriate venue? For that matter, what sort of venue should we consider? (And beyond that, is there a concentration of loopists in some other part of the country where a different regional performance could be staged?) OK, your turn. Tell me what you all think about this. My feeling is, there are enough of us concentrated in a relatively local orientation that something like this really should be tried. 'Till next time, --Andre (West Coast edition) From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 23:52:54 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 31 15:37:43 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJ6g8-0006zQ-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:37:40 -0800 Date: Thu, 31 Oct 96 16:00:06 MST Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: From: "Bret Moreland" Subject: re:Hello and intro MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Resent-Message-ID: <"nM8_RC.A.4WG.BfTey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/913 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:37:40 -0800 X-UIDL: b96740519daa322bf78dc9ae934759d2 Fellow loop minded people, I just joined the mailing list this week. I am so excited to find you folks that also have an interest in looping. I am overwhelmed with the knowledge and backgrounds bundled here. I'm not worthy :-) I have been trying to resolve some problems with my echoplex with Mike Lyon at Oberheim (must I say a division of Gibson?), and he forwarded my Email to Kim Flint. Kim told me about the list, and I joined immediately. Thanks Kim! I will fill out the form for personal info, but if you don't mind I will tell you a little about my history and interests. The first time I heard an echo device I was captivated. It was in the 60's, and was Chet Atkins playing with the Boston Pops on TV. He used the original Echoplex while playing _Snowbird_, it was awesome to me. As a pre teen I tried to modify my (toy) tape recorder to do loops and echo, with little success. The sounds never left my head, though. In the 70's I bought an analog delay line with about 1 second delay. Finally I could play what I heard, albeit only short loops. I dreamed of having a few seconds to play with. The analog delay could make some wonderful distortions as the regenerated signal dissolved and mutated. When I heard about the Jamman, I ordered one. A week or so later I found out about the Echoplex DP's features. Before I received the Jamman, I realized I probably would prefer the Echoplex. When I got the Jamman I knew I wanted the Echoplex. I took the Jamman on a business trip to Singapore, and decided to put more ram in it. I know the city well, and shopped and shopped, but no Zip ram could be found. I finally found some in Malaysia, but at some outrageous price like $350. I traded in the Jamman for the echoplex upon returning to the states. I play 6 string electric bass as my primary instrument. I was a guitar player first, but prefer to do the bulk of my looping with electric bass both 4 and 6 string. I have on occasion used small Moog analog synths (micro Moog, and prodigy) in loops. I also do binaural Dat recordings of various sources, musical, mechanical, and environmental. Traffic to Helicopters to people to frogs. I enjoy sound and _noises_. I'm not alone in this, among you, I suspect. My first problem with the Echoplex was that static on the foot pedal would cause the loop contents to be deleted. Kim has suggested some grounding approachs that I suspect will help this. Lately, my problem has been the start point of the loops moving when I use next loop a lot. After creating 2 loops, and enhancing them with multiply and overdub, I nextloop from one multiple in loop 1 to a single multiple in loop 2, and repeat. Eventually the start point of these loops move, and I have to reset the start points manually. I have been waiting 1 week for a response from Mike Lyon about the hardware mods and new PLD's for my echoplex. He said he would send them to me or do the work there, I said send them, but no response from him that he would or when. Kim, or anyone else, if you can help me know what the mods address, and if any of them will fix the loop start point shift problem I would be grateful. My Echoplex was checked OK on 2 April 96 on the PCBA. I have been reading the archives to catch up. I too would like to participate in the loopers pool CD, if the ante is not too great. I think I am the only 6 string bass looper here so far. Forgive the long Email, I am just so thrilled to find you people. regards, bret From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 23:53:07 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 31 19:02:01 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJ9rs-0000al-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 19:02:00 -0800 Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 21:58:12 -0500 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961031215811_134811901@emout10.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: RE: Re: BRACE YOURSELVES!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"BoU-GB.A.2a.EeWey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/916 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 19:02:00 -0800 X-UIDL: 934c5364a9e44f37bbcd7d009bcaa8c1 Reply to Andre: Count me in fer sure dude. Ted (the central coast edition) From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 23:53:19 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 31 22:04:48 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJCil-0000vd-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 22:04:47 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 23:05:15 -0400 To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com From: Chris Chovit Subject: Re: BRACE YOURSELVES!!! Resent-Message-ID: <"bk7Gw.A.Kx.kKZey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/918 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 22:04:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 32ae6daa238cfa14171e081e5f92af62 Andre wrote: >The idea is this: To try and stage some sort of live gathering of loop >artists. Excellent idea! Count me in! I'm in the LA area, and also willing to drive. It would be fun to get together in any venue: someone's house, warehouse, college campus, random field or ampitheater, etc.... I would have liked to have seen your recital. This idea would give some of us [loopists] a chance to see (and hear) what others are doing. I remember Matthias said something about music being a ritual act, thus, there is something lost in the recording. I feel this way too (although I also love recordings!) My favorite aspect of looping devices is that they have allowed me to capture (and feedback into) my performance. And it seems that Matthias designed the Echoplex DP to be performance-oriented, ie. to remove the obstacles of a standard recording format. A CD or tape is a good way to get an idea of what others are doing (and I like the idea of going ahead with a compilation mix)...but there' s nothing like a LIVE performance! My preferences are: date: any time after Nov. 22 place: anywhere between SanDiego and SanFrancisco - chris --------------------------------------- Chris Chovit cho@gomez.jpl.nasa.gov --------------------------------------- From ???@??? Thu Oct 31 23:53:08 1996 >From kflint Thu Oct 31 19:48:48 1996 Received: from lists by ferret.slip.net with local (Exim 0.57 #1) id 0vJAb9-0002iQ-00; Thu, 31 Oct 1996 19:48:47 -0800 Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 22:46:39 -0500 From: KILLINFO@aol.com Message-ID: <961031224637_134825669@emout15.mail.aol.com> To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Subject: Concert Review Resent-Message-ID: <"ZQShPD.A.neC.hLXey"@ferret> Resent-From: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Reply-To: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/917 X-Loop: Loopers-Delight@annihilist.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: SmartList Resent-To: kflint@annihilist.com Resent-Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 19:48:47 -0800 X-UIDL: 6927137169a5dbee01d3f3c64194d42a Hi y'all! Last evening Joe Cavaleri and I made the trek down to the L.A. area to check out Andre LaFosse's mid-residency recital at Cal Arts. And, to be sure, we left after an hour or so vvvvveeeerrrryyyy impressed. With a fairly modest rack setup, a red strat, and a Mesa Boogie he presented quite an enthralling stew of sounds. His thing seems to be a rather cinematic, textural, rockish, "artmusik" with teeth (and the ocassional familiar "Tornish" and "Frippish" nod here and there). There was his fine playing of course, and a really "happening" guitar tone (recent Torn/Fripp, with a smattering of Gilmour and Knoffler come to mind) and some truly wicked sound designing and creative processing. Those who have read Andre's many posts to this list know that he uses both the Oberheim EDP and the Lexicon Vortex for his loops and textures. And man... he uses both thouroughly and creatively. (As a new Obie convert/owner I was definitely taking mental notes on everything he did). All of this was fed into a quadrophonic sound system that made everything sound way HUGE and all-enveloping. While I am not sure if any of the material was the same as his recent(?) tape(?) submission to Guitar Player Magazine's Spotlight Column, I am certain that we heard was indicative of why his demo of the month (in the December issue) was a standout. Congratulations Andre, and thanks for a great concert. Ted